1
100
20
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b04816d49be28e9a8bd4764275639c87.pdf
3b4ca33d66e21c6afb4584f654d4d835
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Johnson, Taylor
Interviewee
Wheeler, Terry W.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Terry W. Wheeler
Alternative Title
Oral History, Wheeler
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler (b. 1959), who served in the U.S. Army, during the Cold War. Wheeler was born in Fort Lee, Virginia, in 1959. He joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and was commissioned into the Army on December 28, 1981. He earned the rank of Captain, as well as several awards and commendations: the Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon, the Army Achievement Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal. Wheeler served in Fort Knox, Kentucky, Schweinfurt, West Germany, and Fort Benning, Georgia.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include training at Fort Knox, duties as an Armor Officer, assignment in West Germany, Fort Benning, duties as a Tank Company commander, combat simulations, resigning from the Army and attending graduate school, and employment in the private sector.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:01:52 Enlistment<br />0:02:25 Training and duties as an Armor Officer<br />0:05:41 Germany<br />0:07:16 Inner German border and gunnery<br />0:08:47 Interaction with Germans and most memorable day<br />0:10:39 Free time, contacting family, and fellow servicemembers<br />0:12:00 Fort Benning, Georgia<br />0:13:46 Tank Company Commander and combat simulations<br />0:16:22 Resignation and graduate school<br />0:17:57 Awards and most memorable aspect of service<br />0:18:41 Post-Army career<br />0:19:27 Effect of service on civilian life<br />0:20:21 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler. Interview conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
15-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 11-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Schweinfurt, Lower Franconia, Bavaria, Germany
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Creator
Wheeler, Terry W.
Johnson, Taylor
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
181 MB
166 KB
Medium
21-minute and 11-second DVD/MP4 aduio/video recording
15-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Taylor Johnson and Terry W. Wheeler and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Hawkins, John Palmer. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44713137" target="_blank"><em>Army of Hope, Army of Alienation: Culture and Contradiction in the American Army Communities of Cold War Germany</em></a>. Westport, Conn: Praeger, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I’m interviewing Terry [W.] Wheeler, who served in the Army from 1981 to 1990. I’m Taylor Johnson. Mr. Wheeler served during the Cold War era. He spent time in Fort Knox, Kentucky; Schweinfurt[, Lower Franconia, Bavaria], Germany; and [U.S. Army Infantry School] Fort Benning, Georgia. My name’s Taylor Johnson, again. We’re interviewing Mr. Wheeler as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We’re recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. So my first question is: where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was born in Fort Lee, Virginia.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>1959. Fort Lee is a military post, and that is the—that is the Army hospital on post[?].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you—sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>That’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you grew up on a military post?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>My dad was in the military, and we grew up—I grew up in, uh, location to location, across the United States and Europe, until he retired in 1971.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your father do for the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>He was a logistics officer. He was a ward officer [<em>clears throat</em>], and, uh, he—he spent, uh, time in WWII [World War II], Korea[n War], and three tours in Vietnam [War].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your mother do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>She was a housewife, Uh, up until about the time my dad retired, and then she came back into the workforce.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Do you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I don’t.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do before you entered the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was in college. I was a ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] cadet at Gonzaga University, and so I was a college student.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you study?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was a business major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so do you have any other family members that served in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, uncles. My—my dad’s oldest brother was killed during World War II. Uh, his old—his younger brother served in the Navy. His other younger brother served in the Air Force, and then I have cousins who have served in the military also.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what prompted you to enter the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>It’s a—it’s a very easy decision to make, if you grew up in a military family. Uh, it was just a logical progression of what I would like to do to serve, and so I made that decision—when I was in high school—that I was gonna serve.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So how did your family members feel about you entering the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, they were very supportive. They were not, uh, overly pushing me towards that decision. It was my own decision to make. Uh, my mother was not as happy with that decision as she would’ve been if I had stayed in the civilian side, uh, but that’s the way it turned out.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what were your first days in the service like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I came in at the end of December 1981, and came on active duty, and went to my basic qualification course at Fort Knox. I was an Armor Officer, and so, for the next four and a half months, I spent time at Fort Knox learning how to be a platoon leader—a second Lieutenant, and then I was assigned to Germany after that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do as an Armor Officer?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, sp—the position that I was in was, uh, a cavalry position. That is a sub-branch of the armor—a subsection of the armor. Uh, Cavalry is a screen unit—a—a scout unit, if you will, that works in a divisional or regimental level. Basically, the cav’s mission is to, uh, screen and be the leading edge of a, uh—of the unit, uh, in the advance, to screen the flanks to make sure there are no surprises. So it’s very, very light, very, very fast reconnaissance.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was your initial training like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Four and a half months of learning everything, from personnel actions to vehicle repair to how to employ the weapons systems on all the vehicles that we are going to be assigned, Radio communications. I mean, the entire gamut that you would expect to serve in that posi—in a ge—in that position as a leader. Uh, second lieutenant platoon leader is an entry-level position for combat arms. Um, Basically, uh, you’re in charge of about 38 soldiers and about—at that—at that point in time [<em>sighs</em>]—let me count vehicles real quick—about 13 vehicles.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um,okay.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson <br /></strong>So what do you remember most about your time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Fort Knox, in the wintertime, is very cold. As Germany is very cold. Um, it was a lot of fun. We learned a lot in a very short amount of time, and, uh, long days, long nights, and it was a really good building experience. Uh, the people that you meet, in that same course, are people that[sic] you serve with in the military throughout your career, and it is a boomerang-type effect, because you come back together. They’re sent to units, you’re sent to units, you run into them for training exercises or operational deployments. You come back together for training over time, and so you’re building a cohort of—of people that you serve with throughout the rest of your career.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What type of advanced training did you receive, if any?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, really, advanced is not key to this, at that point. Um, basically, you know, eh, for the armor side, you come in, you’re given, uh, the tra—the base training, and you go out and be a platoon leader, and you spend a couple years doing that. If you’re selected for the advanced course, then you come back as a ju—a senior lieutenant or a junior-grade captain, and go through another six-month type course, where they lear—they—you need to learn how to be an effective commander of a small unit—a Company Commander. At the end of that, then you go out and serve a utilization tour, being a leader at that level. So it’s, you know, two grades up, and then, at that point, then you—you split off in your career, and pull the secondary career, and so you split off into another area, and so, at that point then—rom that point forward in your career you, flip flop between your primary and your secondary specialty. So I really didn’t have advanced training, other than the fact that I went through the career course as a Captain, and then commanded a unit.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Okay, um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Excuse me.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So when did you find out that you were going to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, April 1982. Right at the end—I received orders for that, right as I was finishing up my qualification course.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And how did you react to that news?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was very happy. I had spent two years in Germany as a child. I already spoke fluent German, and so it was not a huge, life-changing experience to go over there. Um, usually what you walk as a—as an American, when you walk into Germany—not having served there, not having any background to it—you go through a couple weeks of qualif—uh, of familiarization, where you learn rudimentary language, and I was not—I was able to just bypass that and mainstream right in.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was, uh—what was a routine day like during your assignment in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] I can give you a routine—a, uh, better description than that. For the first year that I was there as a platoon leader, we were in the field 280 days out of 365 days that year. We would deploy out for a, uh—a 30-day session on a border camp, where we would patrol the East German<a title="">[1]</a> interzonal border. From that, we would get on the train and go to a gunnery—three or four weeks of tank gunnery, and from that, we would deploy to a field exercise, go home for two weeks, and then go back to the border for 30 days. So we spent most of our time out actually doing our real world mission, at that point. Um, up at six in the morning, uh, some pu—some, uh—in effect, through midnight—one in the morning. I mean, it was a very, very, very dynamic, high stress, long day environment.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do in each of those three sort of positions?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the border camp, we were responsible to patrol a section of border of—of the East German interzonal border. This was still when the [Berlin] Wall was up. between 2<sup>nd</sup> ACR [Armored Calvary Regiment] and 11<sup>th</sup> ACR, we had this—this—this piece of the border that had to be actually manned, and stood ready to—to announce that any—any incursion had come across the border. We were fully combat-loaded. We were deployed there 30 days at a time. We spent 10 days, eh, in a steady reaction state of walking around, with full gear loaded on, helmets in our hands, ready to walk out the gate with five minutes notice to go to our general positions and fight a war. Okay? We spent 10 days in training. We spent 10 days doing actual patrols in jeeps up and down the interzonal border. Uh, it is the—It was the—other than Korea—at that point, it was—we were one of the most forward-deployed units in the Army, at that time. All the vehicles were fully uploaded with the ammunition and ready to go.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do at the gunnery?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler <br /></strong>Gunnery was—there’s a—there’s a—a full qualification session that you have to—to do in tanks to maintain proficiency, and you do that more than two to three—four times a year, and so you would go, and there were actually exercises that you run, shooting live guns, live ammunition at the range, and you qualify as a tank crew, as a section of two, platoon of four, and a company of 12, and so it is, basically, you know, move and shoot, and communicate, and prov—proving proficiency that you can do that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you think of the Germans?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, uh, where we were stationed in Germany, it was in—it was in the very northern end of Bavaria. Germans were very, very polite people. Uh, very welcoming. Um, I’m not so sure that the Germans really enjoyed being occupied still after 40 years of—after the end of the [World] War [II], but, uh, they were very nice. Uh, they—if you spoke German, or at least tried to fit in and blend in, you get a lot further than being an ugly American, and, uh, it was a very pleasant place, and we saw a lot of it riding in the back of a military vehicle.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What was your most memorable day during that assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Give me a second. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] we had a soldier that died in a training accident, and the aftermath of that was really hard to deal with. Uh, It was not his—it was not a—a—a, uh—a safety issue that was the direct cause. It truly was an accident. Uh, The tank that he was riding in, uh, went over, uh—now, in Germany—back in the Germany, uh, the train—a lot of the trains and some of the streetcars would run with electricity, and they had these high tension wires overhead, and he was riding in a tank, and the—the antenna on his tank, uh, snapped loose and the antenna went up and hit the top of the—of the high voltage wire, and it arced electricity through the vehicle, and the vehicle basically exploded, and three of the—of the four crew were able to get out, and he was unable to get out, and he passed away. So that was very difficult to deal with. Uh, seeing the aftermath of that [<em>clears throat</em>], having to pull the tank apart, trying to take his remains out, you know, that kind of thing. So that—that was a very memorable day.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, what did you do with your free time, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Traveled.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Uh, can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>A—again, we were deployed most of the time. So when there was a free couple of day—a week—a weekend, or a free three- or four-day event, we would get in the car and disappear. Drove all over Bavaria, uh, spent time in France [<em>clears throat</em>], spent some time, uh, in Northern Germany. Um, basically just enjoying the, uh—the countryside and the people.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so how did you stay in touch with your family while you were overseas?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>We didn’t have email, at that time. Computers were still brand new [<em>clears throat</em>]. So it was by post. Uh, Telephone calls were very expensive, so telephones didn’t really get figured into that, so letters.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And what do you remember about the people that you served with, while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I still have friends that I’ve stayed in contact with, after all these years. That was, uh, 1982-1983-1984 timeframe. I still stay in touch with a few of ‘em. Uh, Very dedicated group of people, um, very like-minded. Uh, you find in the military that not just the clothes you wear make you the same. Very, very similar backgrounds, characteristics, views on the world, and, uh, it was a very, very good time to be a young officer, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was it like when you came back to the U.S.?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>They call the flight from Germany to the United States the “freedom bird” for a reason. Uh, everyone’s happy to come home. Uh, it is a great feeling of—of, uh, assimilation back into society [<em>clears throat</em>], into the culture that you—you are in. It—and, you know, it is—it is—it wasn’t different, at that point in time. It was Europe, and different language, different money, different feel. It was—it was coming home. So it was very nice to come back to the States.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what do you remember about Fort Benning?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Benning is the home of the Infantry [Branch]. Uh, It is—it is a[sic], uh, Infantry training center. Ranger School’s there, Airborne School, Pathfinder [School]. Um, I was assigned to the 2<sup>nd</sup> Battalion, 69<sup>th</sup> Armor [Regiment], at that—at that point, and we went and we were part of a round—we were part of a—a, uh, brigade that was a round-out element for the, uh, rapid deployment force—XVIII Airborne Corps. So we were, again, fairly—fairly well getting ready to be on, you know—on a couple hours’ notice, ready to deploy into the world, but, uh, it was—it was a great training opportunity. We were the only armor unit on post. So we would get tagged for a lot of fire demonstrations and combined arms demonstrations, when the—when the—when the, uh, senior, uh, officers would come—come into town [<em>clears throat</em>], and so we spent a lot of time working with the Infantry. We really refined the—the union—the union of the true mechanized team, at that point. So it was not armor pure. It was that combined arms element that we really struggled to, uh, put in place, and it was really, really great training opportunity.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training for your job as a Tank Company Commander?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Yeah, I went through the advanced course. That was, ah—so coming back from Germany, I spent six months again at Fort Knox, going through the next phase of that course and came out, eh, eh, basically ready to be a Company Commander. So when I was—I was deployed to Benning, I spent the next, uh, 16 months as a Maintenance Officer for a battalion, and then was assigned as a Company Commander, and spent, uh, [<em>sighs</em>] another probably 18 to 20 months, I guess, as a Tank Company Commander.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about your job with combat simulations—the combat simulations branch?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the end of my command time, uh, I picked my secondary specialty as Operations Research and Systems Analysis, and there was a group that was doing that type of work attached to the Infantry center, and so I went in, and I was a—an Executive Officer for this small group that used computers—which were very, very, uh, elementary, as compared to what we have now—to do war gaming, to look at how new equipment inserted into a battlefield would make a differential change.</p>
<p>So basically, you would take the characteristics of—of a new weapon system, and you would deploy that with—so you’d run simulations without that weapon system and you would run simulations with that weapons system, and look for the differentials that you could achieve and how much more advantage it gave you. It was part of the co—cost and operational effectiveness analysis for getting those systems to be brought online.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so—I lost my place. Um, what was a routine day like while you were in Georgia?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, at—at the—at the, uh—at the armor group job? Or in the, uh—the simulations job?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, either one.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Armor job—realistically, almost every line unit almost has the exact same type of training as—same type of day. Uh, up in the morning, depending on, you know—three days a week you run PT [physical training] from six o’clock to seven o’clock, have a shower, be back at—at work at—at eight for formation. Going through the day, whether training, or maintenance, or what have you, and are usually done by six o’clock at night, Uh, Back home to families.</p>
<p>Um, the—the Executive Officer’s job is—at the branch, we would spend the day doing the same thing. We would do PT a couple days a week, and then, um, go into what was more of an office-style environment to do those simulations. Um, we had a staff of about eight members—both soldiers and civilians—that worked that group, and we would do these simulation exercises on the computers.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what was it like when your service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] I made the decision to—to, uh, resign my commission and come out of active duty, uh, in early spring of 1990. Um, my secondary priority[?]—I had already worked at my secondary specialty for two years, and was unable to get the Army to agree to send me to grad[uate] school for a funded grad program, and I had watched officers who had gone through the Army non-funded program and the funded grad program, come out and see how effective they were in that job, and the ones that[sic] were coming out, not having gone to grad school, were not being retained, and I was not selected to go through the grad program, so that basically was the de—deciding point [<em>clears throat</em>] that, if I couldn’t do that and retain my time—because I figured, at that point, I would not be able to continue. I elected to resign and get out, and then I, uh, applied for grad school and went to grad school. Um, My ETS [Expiration Term of Service] was June 30<sup>th</sup>, 1990, and the Army froze all separation actions July 15<sup>th</sup>, for the [Persian] Gulf War. So that was immediately—I mean, it was—it days before the Gulf War jumped from there, almost.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what did you study when you went to grad school?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I studied information systems, and, uh, spend 18 months in grad school.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, What can you tell us about the awards that you received from the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Very, very common, uh, awards that people, you know—you spend eight years doing that. Um, nothing—nothing major. Um, you know, Army Achievement Medals for stuff, and, uh, that’s pretty much it. Nothing major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was the most memorable thing overall about your time in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>You know, as I alluded to earlier, uh, it is a—it is a great pleasure to spend time with people of a like mind. Okay? I found a lot of the people, that[sic] I spent time with, had the same values, same views on the world, politics, that I did, and so it was a brotherhood, and just the—the people that[sic] I—and the friendships, I guess, that I had—had gained, and the relationships from work that I had from that group of people is what I retained from that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was your job after you left the service.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>When I came out I went to grad school and finished grad school at Syracuse [University], and, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] I went to work for IBM [International Business Machines Corporation] as an intern, did that for about nine months, and then came into the private sector.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what are you doing now?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I am currently the director of IT [information technology] services for the Student Development and Enrollment Services division here<a title="">[2]</a> on campus.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Basically, SDES is the largest division on campus. We have about 2,400 staff that we maintain computer action for servers for, so desktop, laptop, database, uh, web design, and that’s what we encompass. So basically, I run the services side of that group.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and how has your time in the military affected your life since then?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>There hasn’t really been an effect since then. It was a—any time you transition from the military to the ci—the civilian sector, it can create a period of—of, uh, change, I guess you would say. Uh, going from the major activities, and the mindset, and the—the guidelines that we do into what the civilian world does not encompass. Um, it took about a year—a year and a half—to go through that and actually transition the mindset away.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And do you belong to any veterans groups?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I do not.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What do you do with your free time since you left the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, I have—I have children. So pretty much now it’s just work and—and, you know, time with family and Boy Scouts [of America].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what would you say to someone who is contemplating enlisting or becoming a commissioned officer today?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Military service is an honor, and, uh, it’s a calling that, if you’re called to do, you really want to without any real reason to explain why, and it’s a very, very honorable thing to do, and if that is—if that is a design that is something that interests someone to do, I encourage them fully to accept that and enjoy.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, ma’am.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you for your time, and for coming to talk with me today, and thank you for your service. I appreciate your participation, and we will be in touch with you once we have a copy of your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> German Democratic Republic (GDR).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> At the University of Central Florida.</p>
</div>
</div>
11th ACR
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
18th Airborne Corps
2nd ACR
2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment
2nd Battalion
2nd Lieutenant
69th Armor Regiment
Achievement Medal
ACR
advanced training
Airborne Corps
Armor Officer
Armor Regiment
Armored Cavalry Regiment
basic training
Bavaria, Germany
Berlin Wall
Blachorse Regiment
cavalry
COEA
cold war
combat simulations
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commander
cost and operational effectiveness analysis
CVHP
deployments
East Germany
Eighteenth Airborne Corps
Eleventh Armored Cavalry Regiment
enlistment
Executive Officer
Federal Republic of Germany
Fort Benning, Georgia
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Fort Lee, Virginia
Free State of Bavaria
freedom birds
FRG
German Democratic Republic
Germans
Germany
Infantry Branch
information technology
inner German border
IT
lieutenants
Maintenance Officer
military training
Operations Research/Systems Analysis
ORSA
rapid deployment force
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
ROTC
Schweinfurt, Germany
scouts
SDES
Second ACR
Second Armored Cavalry Regiment
Second Battalion
Second Lieutenant
simulation training
Sixty-Ninth Armor Regiument
Student Development and Enrollment Services
Tank Company Commander
Taylor Johnson
Terry W. Wheeler
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
UCF
UCF SDES
UCF Student Development and Enrollment Services
veterans
weapon systems
West Germany
XVIII Airborne Corps
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e979574868da94f6a20a3fa283e68f35.pdf
982bb5a46631a8d53dec5fa885f4f54e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Ray Sturm
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sturm
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Ray Sturm (b. 1963), who served in the U.S. Army from 1983 to 1989. Sturm was born in Winter Park, Florida, on October 22, 1963. He enlisted in the Army in 1983 and completed his basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Sturm then served at Herzo Base in Herzogenaurach, Germany. He served in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade and 34th Infantry Division, and achieved the rank of Sergeant.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Katie Hollingsworth in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson, Herzo Base, his rank as Sergeant, Fort Stewart, the 24th Infantry Division, comradery, Sturm's interest in music, and his post-military life.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:02:35 Enlistment<br />0:05:05 Basic training and advanced training <br />0:07:53 Herzo Base<br />0:16:58 Sergeant rank<br />0:22:00 Fort Stewart and the 24th Infantry Division<br />0:25:41 Comradery and music<br />0:28:26 Post-military education<br />0:30:44 Keeping in touch with other soldiers<br />0:33:05 Military's influence on life<br />0:35:35 Advice to current service members<br />0:37:07 Post-military hobbies<br />0:39:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Ray Sturm. Interview conducted by Katie Hollingsworth at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
26-page digital transcript of original 42-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Winter Park, Florida
Fort Jackson, Columbia, South Carolina
Herzo Base, Herzogenaurach, Hesse, Germany
Fort Stewart, Georgia
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sturm, Ray
Hollingsworth, Katie
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
362 MB
228 KB
Medium
42-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
26-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Katie Hollingsworth and Ray Sturm and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Nelson, Harold W. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"><em>The Army</em></a>. Arlington, Va: Army Historical Foundation, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, by the way, I assume this is going to be edited?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No? Okay. Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay. So Today—it is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014, and I am interviewing Dr. Ray Sturm, who served in the U.S. Army as a Sergeant in the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade, 34<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division. I am interviewing Dr. Sturm as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Uh, I was born right here in Central Florida. I was born inWinter Park, uh, in [October 22,] 1963.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a CPA [Certified Public Accountant], and my mom was a homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, how big was your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, just the three of us. Well, and…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Just the three of you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And my grandmother lived with us…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, until I was about 10 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, what do you remember mostly about your childhood?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, what do I remember mostly?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Mmhmm[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, having a lot of fun [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, like—you know, like we, uh, had talked about earlier, uh, actually growing up near the Navy base. Uh, we were just two blocks from the Navy base there. Um, and that kind of impacted, uh—impacted our lives a little bit.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what kind of education did you receive?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, after high school, um, and after, uh, my military service, uh, I got my Bachelor’s, uh, [degree] and Master’s [degree] from University of Central Florida. So Bachelor’s in accounting, Master’s in taxation, um, and then I received a, uh, Doctorate [degree] in finance from Florida Atlantic University.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, before you enlisted, what did you—what sort of things did you enjoy doing?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I enjoyed surfing. I enjoyed surfing and I enjoyed, uh, exercising. I was a—I was always very physical. So I ran track all through high school and—and in junior high. Um, and, uh, anything that involved sports I was, uh—I was interested in doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, were any of your other family members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, yeah. My grandfather, um, was in the Army Corps of Engineers. Um, I think he was—I think that was actually a civilian position, But he was working in that. My, uh, step grandfather was, um, actually drafted in—I believe it was the Army, and, uh, he was drafted at like 40 years old, uh, in World War II. He was not—not very happy about that, and, um, my dad was in the Air Force, Which is what brought us down here to Central Florida in the first place.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah, and, Um, how aware were you of the Cold War, before you enlisted?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, not very. Uh, you know, obviously, uh, I knew it was going on, but, uh, you know, I enlisted at 20 years old, so I wasn’t, uh—I wasn’t, uh, all that aware of, uh—of the Cold War. I was more aware of [the Invasion of] Grenada,<a title="">[1]</a> because I went in right a—a month after that happened. So[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah, uh, what influenced you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, lots of things. Uh, at that time, um, uh, I was in, uh—I was in college, but I wasn’t really a student yet. So, um, you know, I was—I was still—still seeking, and really just everything, at that time, uh, uh, pointed towards the military. Um, one of the rea—one of the main reasons I did go in though was: I had always had an interest in the military. I mean, I could—I could remember, even back in elementary school, doing a book report on World War II. You know, so I had always had an interest in the, uh—in the military, um, and just kind of, you know, the, um, spirit of the American soldier, I guess you could say.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, and, uh, why did you choose the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, because I—when I went in, um, you know—like I said, I went in for a lot of reasons. uh, and I was actually very, uh—you know, I never planned on making it a career, but I did wanna do everything that I could do while I was in. um, and I figured that, uh, if—if I went in the Marines, uh, that I was going to have to be hardcore for three years, whether I liked it or not. Um, I didn’t want to go into the Navy, because the idea of being on a ship for nine months at a time didn’t appeal to me. Um, and I didn’t want to go into the Air Force, because I—I didn’t—I wasn’t aware of some of the, uh—some of the things that you could do in the Air Force, at that time. Um, but, uh, uh, I wanted to—I chose the Army, because I thought it was a good compromise between being, uh—uh, being very hardcore and not so much. So I went in that, uh, figuring that if I really liked it, then I could go that route. Uh, if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, did your dad influence that decision at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Since he was from the Air Force?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, but how did they react when you decided to enlist—your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, my dad being a veteran, um, I—I think they were happy about it. Of course, you know, they’re concerned. You know, a parent—a, uh—a child going in the military is always a concern to the parent, but, um, I think that they were, um—I think that they were happy about it, uh, for the exact reason that it turned out, as the military, uh, um, helps you mature a lot, and you—you grow up—you grow up pretty quick.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what do you remember most—what do you most remember about basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, boy, was it cold [<em>laughs</em>]. I went in—I was in, uh—uh, I went in November—November 9<sup>th</sup>[, 1983]. So, uh—so basic training was eight weeks, although we got, uh, Christmas exodus. So we got—I think we were out for like two weeks over Christmas, Which was very shocking to me, but, um—but it was cold. It was cold. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And why was it cold? Where were you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, it was Fort Jackson[, Columbia], South Carolina, and, um, I did, uh, uh—I did both basic and, uh, AIT [Advanced Individual Training], uh, at Fort Jackson, uh, South Carolina. So I was there from November until probably about March [1984], I guess it would be, and, uh, you know, after I—after I went on from that, you know, I was—I was in Germany. You’ll probably be getting to that, but I was in Germany, uh, and we’d go to the field in the snow and all that kind of stuff, but the coldest day I’ve ever spent in my life was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, um, out on the artillery range.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, just from my job. Ju—just from my job. I—I had wanted to, um—I wanted to go into [Army] Special Forces. Uh, and, uh, kinda—I—I ran into a lot of red tape, uh, start—starting with the fact that, if I had gone that route, I wouldn’t have been able to enlist for another year, and I really couldn’t wait that long, so I went in hoping that I would get in that route. Um, Things didn’t work out like that, but, uh, um, so I just—the—the, uh—really, the only advanced training I had was from my job.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about your job?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I was in logistics. I was in supply, and, um, uh, so, you know, again, I took that at—at Fort Jackson, and, uh, one of the things that I—I learned about that in there is when you watch this—particularly like the old World War II movies—uh, you know, you see the stereotypical Supply Sergeant, you know, with the hat cocked back and the little, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Cigar sticking out of their mouth[sic]. Um, and that’s not—that’s not the way it is. Um, and, especially these days, ‘cause, with computers, they have everything really, uh, locked down. Back then, uh, you could still do some wheeling and dealing, because things weren’t as, uh—as accountable as they are now. When I say “things,” I mean the supplies themselves. It wasn’t as easy to account for them then, but one of the things that—that, uh—that surprised me about that job is: eh, we took the, um—we took the, uh, combat role—not that we saw any combat—but we took that very seriously, because if you think about it, when the enemy attacks, what’s one of the first things they attack? It’s the supply line. So, go—you know, going into supplies sounds like, you know, I guess, wheel and deal…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And smoke cigars, but it’s actually a little more—a little more serious than that. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what was it like going overseas? You mentioned Germany earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was my—that was my first time overseas. Um, you know, again, I was 20 years old, at the time, uh, uh, but it was—it was a little overwhelming, and, uh, I remember, uh—I remember when I first got there, uh, I flew into Frankfurt[, Hesse, Germany], and I was stationed about two hours south of Frankfurt. So I think—I think there were about a half dozen of us or so that were in the van. Um, and as we made our way down there, they’d drop off one by one, and, of course, I was the last one.</p>
<p>But, um, when—when he dropped me off—I’ll—I’ll never forget—When he dropped me off at my duty post, it was just a small air base. So you could walk from the front gate to the back gate in about five minutes, and, um, when he dropped me off, it was an overcast day, cold, and I had no idea where to go, and he spoke no English whatsoever [<em>laughs</em>]. So all he could do was point to this building, and, uh, so I walked in the building and just kind of found my way from there, but, um, uh, that was my initial, uh—initial experience going overseas. Uh, going overseas, uh, in some ways, really formed, uh, a lot of the values that I have today. So I don’t know how in depth, uh, you meant that question to be.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No, that’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Tell me more about it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, um…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How it impacts you today.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, you know, it was a completely different culture, you know? And I—I had, uh—I had never experienced anything like that before. Um, I remember when we were, uh, in process. Because when—when you get in country, uh, for, um—I think we went through two weeks of, um, kind of an indoctrination on the German culture, you know? And again, at that time, it was East [Germany] and West Germany. So we were in, we were—we were in West Germany.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>laughs</em>] they—they would actually hire a local. Uh, it was a German, uh—a Germany lady that came in, and she was just, you know, teaching us basic German phrases and things like that. Um, the very first thing she taught us was “Ein bier, bitte.” So “one beer, please,” of course, but one—one of the first things that really jumped out at me about being overseas was, uh, one of the military personnel’s telling us, uh, um, basically, to, uh, uh, be good boys while we were over there, because at—I don’t know if it’s still this way—but, at the time, there was no such thing as police brutality.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, uh, you know—so the <em>polizei</em> tell you to do something, you do it, ‘cause there is no police brutality over there [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So, um, could you tell me more about what you did in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, that’s when I was with the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade. Um, I was working in the, uh—working in the, uh, supply area over there. So, um, We were stationed—I was stationed at a little place called Herzo Base, which is near Herz—Herzogenaurach[, Bavaria], Germany, which is near Nuremberg, which is where they had the war trials, uh—The German war trials. <a title="">[2]</a> Um, uh, and the air base that I was at was actually an old Luftwaffe, uh, base, and it was right on the hilltop, uh, and where we were stationed, uh, as it was told to me—it’s a pretty interesting story, because, you know, obviously, there’s a[sic] air field out there, but apparently, during World War II, it was a secret air base. So what they would do is: they would, uh—when they weren’t, uh, using it, they would flood the field. So from the air, it would just look like a lake, and then when they—when they wanted to, uh—when they wanted to, uh, use it, then they would drain it, of course, and take off, and land, and do whatever it is that they needed to do. Uh, but the one thing that was kind of, uh, eerie over there was that, um: we had, uh, lots of underground passages, and they were all padlocked shut, and, uh, the rumor was—I don’t—I don’t know if it was true or not—but the, uh—the rumor was that there was, um—actually, in some of them, uh, supposedly, there were some old World War II planes down there, but, uh, they were concerned that some things had been booby-trapped, so apparently, the—all of that was flooded.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, of course, we, uh—we never went down there, but, um—but, like I say, I was there—I was there for 18 months, Uh, um, in the uh Headquarters. It’s called “Headquarters [and] Headquarters Battery.”</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, I read in your biographical data sheet that you would go on alert and get ready for battle. What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was something, uh—yeah. At that time, um, one-fifth of the entire Army was stationed in Germany. Um, and alerts were something that we did take seriously over there, and, um, uh, when we, uh—when we went on alert, then, within about two hours, uh, we had to be ready to go. So we were—where I was stationed, I believe it was—I believe we were only about like two hours from the Czech [Republic] border, um, but yeah. When we went on alert, we would have to be, uh, ready to go, and being in supply, we were in charge of all the, uh—all of the, uh, weapons. So we had to first issue everybody their weapons, and then all of the ammunition and everything. We had to pack up in the trucks, um, and be ready to go, and we went on alert probably about once a month or so. Sometimes, we would actually pull out and go somewhere, and sometimes it would just be a drill. We’d load up the trucks and then unload them, but yeah. That was something we took seriously over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what do you remember most about your service in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, [<em>sniffs</em>], uh, a couple of things. One, uh—speaking of alerts, one was: we, uh—we had an incident—I believe it was with Libya—where we shot down a couple of, uh, Libyan jets. Um, and when that happened, everybody across the—across the globe went on—went on alert. So I remember that, and also, about a month before I left, there was a terrorist attack at the Frankfurt Airport.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, they bombed the, uh—they bombed the Frankfurt Airport. Um, so, uh, uh, that and like, say, the alerts, and, uh, some concerts that I saw over there. I —n fact, I saw the very last concert of Van Halen with, uh, David Lee Roth.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That was their 1984—their 1984 tour [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah[?]. Wow[?], that’s very lucky.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep, I saw them [<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How did you keep in contact with people back at home, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s not like it is today.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I mean, that was, um—it was either mail or phone calls. Um, the mail would take probably a week, and I had a girlfriend back here, at the time, um, and, uh, uh, mail would take about a week, and phone calls were hard, because the only option really, um, was the payphone. So you had to really [inaudible]. I had to write, you know, and say “Hey. Next Sunday I’ll call you at three o’clock.” [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, that’s pretty much, uh,—that’s pretty much, uh, how the communication went, so it was, uh—it was, uh, difficult. I did, uh—when I was in Germany, I did, uh, come home for a month on leave from over there, and that was actually part of the reason why.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me about a typical day in Germany for you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, yeah, we’d get up, and, uh, you know—by the way, you were asking me about one of the, uh—one of my memories from Germany. Um, I was a Florida boy, so that was the first time I’d seen snow.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, um, what I—I—I remember two things about that. One was, um, uh, much to my surprise, it’s actually warmer when it snows…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Than when it doesn’t snow, and that was very surprising to me, ‘cause the coldest days over there was when it didn’t snow at all, but, um, another time, uh—another time, uh, uh, I was walking from—from supply—from where I worked over to the mess hall for lunch, which was only about, uh—I don’t know—about maybe 400 feet or—well, it was probably longer—probably about 200 yards. You know, it wasn’t that far away, but it was cold that day and I had on—I had on everything I owned</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And by the time I got there, I was ready to get inside, but, um, uh, those were—those were two things, uh, that I remember from over there, but, typical day: we’d get up, um, we would have, um, uh, uh—we’d have PT—physical training—at six o’clock. So that’d be our—be our morning formation, uh, make sure everybody was there. Uh, we’d do our—we’d do our exercises, Go for a run, so forth and so on. Uh, and then come back, uh, go get something to eat, and then our next formation was at 8:30 or 8:45. Um, so we’d get our, you know, briefing for the day. Whatever it is that we were going to do, um, and then we’d go to work, uh, um, which, usually, at least one day a week for us involved going on a supply run down to Nuremberg. So I learned how to—how to drive a truck, how to back up a truck with just two side mirrors and towing a trailer.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In a deuce and a half truck. Um, so, you know, we’d—we’d work all day, and then, uh, we’d have our, um, uh, evening formation. We’d have it about 5:45, and then they would lower the flag at five, and, uh, that was a—that was a typical day.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>The whole[?] day?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me how—how you became a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, I had some college when I went in, in the first place. Like I said, I was only in for three years, so when I enlisted, I was already a, uh, PFC [Private First Class]. So I—I went in as an E[nlisted Rank]-3.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, when I—after—After basic and AIT, when I was sent, uh, uh, to Germany, uh, as soon as I got there, the Sergeant, uh, immediately put me in for promotion to E4, uh—Spec[ialist] 4. So I was, uh—I don’t recall how long it took for that to go through. Probably a month or two. So I had a head start, because I had had some college.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they, uh—um, when I was back here at Fort Stewart, uh, for my last year, uh, they promoted me to Sergeant about six months before I got out.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I think part of that—yeah. I think part of that plan was to try to get me to, uh, reenlist.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible] [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Which—yeah. It didn’t work.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>They do that.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do as a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well, then, Uh, I—as a, um—as a private and as a specialist, you pulled a lot you know—you pulled a lot. You pulled the guard duty stuff, you pulled the, you know—the KP [kitchen patrol], uh, that kind of stuff. When I became a Sergeant, um, then I was on the other side of that. so I was, you know, instead of—instead of being on the guard duty, I’d, you know—once a month or so, I’d be the NCO [non-commissioned officer] in charge at the barracks, ‘cause—‘cause, at night, at five o’clock, when everybody gets off, um, you had to have a, uh, Sergeant and a, uh—and a, uh, non-NCO that[sic] would be on duty for the whole night, you know, in case something happened. So, uh, then I became more in the management…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I guess you could say. Yeah. With, uh, zero leadership training, at the time [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did that change overtime? Did you develop some sort of leadership, after a while?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, I—it was only six months. Like I said, I was promoted six months before I’d got out. So, um—yeah. You know, I learned a few things, But, uh, really the, eh—not ‘til later. Not ‘til after I got out and I reflected on, um,—I—I don’t want to say mistakes that I’ve made—just, um, inexperience, you know? And, uh, reflecting on them later is when they really paid dividends, but yeah. I really didn’t have enough time left in my enlistment to, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Learn a lot of lessons. Although, they did—they did—they tried to, uh, get me to reenlist to go to Warrant Officer [Candidate] School.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Interesting[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, you said no. Why?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, first of all, I had never, um—I, you know—I had never intended on making the military a career. Um, but also, you know, I was in a—in a, uh—in a really tough time, because I was in from 1983 to 1986. Um, and that was just, Uh, you know—that was just—what? Ten years after the end of the draft and eight years after the end of Vietnam [War], and I guess it would be three years after the failed, um, Iran hostage rescue.<a title="">[3]</a> So, you know, when I was in, you know, the, um, you know—the military was really beaten down. The, uh, bu—uh, a lot of the equipment we had was left over from Vietnam. Um, a lot of the good soldiers—particularly in the NCO ranks—a lot of the good soldiers, uh, had retired after Vietnam, and right in the, uh—at the end of the [19]70s, um, uh, you know, Cart—during the [James “Jimmy” Earl] Carter[, Jr.] administration, the—the—the defense budget had really been cut to almost nothing, you know? So the equipment wasn’t being updated, uh, you know, because of the budget cuts. The good soldiers were getting out. You know, they weren’t reenlisting. They weren’t able to attract good, uh, recruits, but then, you know, when [Ronald Wilson] Reagan came in in ‘80, he spent basically all of the ‘80s building all of this back up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, but I was in kind of at the beginning of that, and, you know, in retrospect, I—I, you know—again, at 20 years old, I didn’t really understand this, at the time, but, um, you know, in retrospect, uh, what he was doing was he was putting a lot of his, uh—a lot of the, uh, defense budget money—particularly in the early years—into modernizing the equipment. You know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>The Stealth Bomber,<a title="">[4]</a> the [M1] Abrams Tank, that kind of stuff. Um, so it wasn’t really going into training yet.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that didn’t really kick in, until later in the ‘80s, and, uh, it paid dividends, as we saw in [Operation] Desert Storm, you know, in—in ‘91—I guess it was—Or 1990—‘91.<a title="">[5]</a> Whatever that was. Uh, it paid dividends then. Um, So I just—I—I didn’t, um—uh, I didn’t, you know—I wanted to go in. Um, I—I wanted to, uh, you know, experience the lifestyle. I, you know—I—I had—I had, uh, um, you know, admired what the—what the American soldier stood for, you know? And I wanted to go and experience that, but I never intended on making it a career, and when I got in there, um, you know, we weren’t—we weren’t really doing a whole heck of a lot of training, at that time. So I just wanted to get out and move on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, so what did you do when you came back to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I went back to school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, I had had some, uh—uh, I had, uh, um, almost two years of college before I went in. Uh, I came back. I finished, uh—finished up my AA [Associate of Arts], um, and then got the Bachelor’s, uh got the CPA, uh, and, you know, so forth and so on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, did you do any service in Orlando? Or was it straight from Germany back to—you were done, after Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No, no, after Germany—I spent, uh, 18 months in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>A year and a half in Germany, and then, I was sent to Fort Stewart, Georgia, for my last year. So I spent my last year…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In Fort Stewart, Georgia, um, which is where I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>That would be [<em>laughs</em>]—yeah. Um, yeah. If I’d have known how good I had it in Germany…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>I would have stayed there [<em>laughs</em>], because, uh, the—one of—one of the things that I didn’t appreciate is that, over in Germany, um, you know, we all wanted to travel, You know, which—by the way, is[sic] some other memories I have of Germany—is doing something with traveling over there. Um, but, you know, we all wanted to travel, including the Officers, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they wanted to get off on a Friday and, you know—and go travel, as well. Well, at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there’s not really a whole heck of a lot to see. So, uh, there wasn’t—wasn’t much to do, except sit on post and work [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh—but the thing about it: I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry—and this was actually, um, I believe, part of, uh, Reagan’s, uh modernization—is we were actually a rapid deployment force there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So we were, uh—we were, um, uh, trained so that, within two hours’ notice, uh, we could go anywhere in the world, uh, and be there within 24 hours, and ready to go. Um, one of the things that we did, uh—eh, even though there wasn’t a lot of training going on, at that time—One of the things we did do, um, was, every year, the unit would go out into the, uh, [Fort Irwin & the] National Training Center, out in the, uh, Mojave Desert and, uh, do desert training, which, uh, came into play in, uh, Oper—in, uh, Desert Storm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Because, uh, when that kicked off, of course, in the deserts of, uh, Iraq and Kuwait, uh, the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division—my old unit—was, uh—played a—played a pretty key role in that, uh—in that, uh, campaign. Uh, be—Again, because we had—we—we—we’d get a desert, every year. In fact, uh, when—the year I was in with them, we went to the Mojave, but the year before that, uh, they actually went to the Sahara Desert and trained for a month over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Were you happy you didn’t have to go anywhere near there?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. I felt bad, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>When—when we were in the—when we were in the Mojave, we were there from mid-July to mid-August.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, unlike being cold in Germany, it was hot.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Out there, and, uh, I really felt and I have a lot of respect for the soldiers, uh, in the, uh—in Desert Storm. Because, uh, they were, you know—that kicked off in January[, 17, 1991], and I—I can’t help but think that there was—the time of that was the cooler weather, but I remember seeing on TV. I remember seeing, uh, video of them training in the summer, and ‘cause one of the things they were worried about was the, uh—was gas attacks.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And I remember seeing them in the summer, running around in the middle of the desert in full chemical suits, and I don’t know that I could have done that in my best day. I have a lot of respect for those guys, because we used wear those chemical suits. They have, uh, charcoal in them, and, um, uh, we used to wear those thing to stay warm in snow, and they were running around in those things in the summer, over in, uh—over in Kuwait, getting ready for that, and, uh—I don’t—I don’t—I do not know how they did it. So yes. I’m glad I—I’m glad I was not part of that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And, um, Between Germany and your service in Georgia and South Carolina, what was your, uh, most—most—most memorable about your time in the service? [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, my gosh. Um, I think the comradery, as—as cliché as that may sound.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>It’s actually very true, because, uh, you know, especially in your training—and particularly, in basic and AIT—you know, there’s kind of an us-against-them, you know, mentality, because, you know, they’re, you know—part of basic training, uh, you know, as they tell you—which is true—is, you know, they gotta break you down to build you up, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>So, um, you know—so we were, you know—we were really banding together to survive, uh—to survive that, and then, you know, even in the units, uh, you know, you build up a comradery with, uh—with, you know, your friends, and they’re the people you work with, Um, and, uh, you know, which carries over into going out at night, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>You know, uh, Going out, you know, and, uh, doing your thing, but when you’re, you know—when you’re going out with, uh, you know, 12 brothers, you know, and you would trust any of them with your life, um, that’s—that’s, uh—That’s a rare connection, and that’s what—that’s what I miss the most and that’s—that—and that’s what I remember. That’s what I remember the most.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm. You remember the people.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Like I say, uh—like I say, the, uh—comradery.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do during your free time?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Travel?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Did some—no. I did some growing up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /> </strong>I did some growing up. I, um—‘cause I was, uh—when I went in, you know, I was in my party phase.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, you know, especially, when I hit[?] to Germany. Uh, Oktoberfest [<em>laughs</em>], uh “Ein bier, bitte?” Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, that whole thing. Um, my first—my first six months in Germany, when I wasn’t, uh—when I wasn’t working, I was, uh, trying to sample every beer that, uh, Germany ever made.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and after about six months, you know, I—I woke up, uh—I woke up one day, and realized that I had been there six months, and I had nothing to show for it, you know? And about that same time—I’d, uh—I’d—I had been a musician my whole life—and about that time, I kinda was, uh, re—uh, uh, re-interested in music, and, um, I actually, uh, started, uh—started playing music again. So I started—I kinda[?]—I really, you know—I quit the partying, um, and I would spend a lot of time playing music. In fact, uh, the first band I ever played in my life was over there</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Was over there,in German, Which would be—qualify as another memory from over there [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, But I—but that’s what I did. I kinda, you know, like I said, grew up a little bit, uh, got over the partying thing, and started, uh, laying the groundwork for the future.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>There you go, and, um, when you came back—right when your service ended—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, it was a tremendous sense of freedom.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. I bet.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, you know, when you’re a soldier, uh, the government owns you 24-7, 365, and, um, uh, you know, when, you know, we—Up in Fort Stewart—and Germany, for that matter, but, uh—you know, in Fort Stewart, uh, you know, we’d go to the field a month at a time, so you—I mean, you’re there for a month, you know? Um, and it—It was the freedom getting out, and, uh, you know, I was—I was used to, you know—for three years, I had—I had woken up every morning at 5:30 or so, and exercised at six, and, uh, I, you know—I was determined to continue doing that, which lasted about two weeks [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But, uh, big, big, big sense of freedom</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And pride.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I was proud of what I did, um, Even though, you know, at that time, uh, you know—at that time, we really weren’t heralded, uh, as heroes, like the soldiers are now, and rightfully so, ‘cause like, you know—like I say, it was, you know—it was only about 10 years after Vietnam</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And everybody was kind of over the military. They—they were—they were tired of hearing about it, and they really, you know—They just really didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh. When you left the military, did you—I know you went back and did your education—but did you work at all, while you were doing that? Or did you just go straight into school?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, no, ‘cause I got out, uh—I got out in November, so I got out November 8<sup>th</sup>[, 1989], um, and I enrolled for the, uh—for the spring semester the following January [1990].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so yeah. I did, you know—I did work, but my main focus was on school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>School?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, and that was—that was part of the growing up—‘cause that’s part of the growing up in the military, but also, when I was in, I—I had the, um—I had the, uh, v[eterans’] benefits, which was the—the successor to the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[6]</a> So I actually, um—I actually earned college money…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That, uh—while I was in there—while I was there. Yeah. When—when I was in Germany, I tried to take a college class over there. That didn’t work out too well.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—no. So when—when I got out, I was—I was, uh—I was pretty head strong on going back to finishing school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s good.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, did you keep in touch with any of the people you served with?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I did not, until, um, uh, really, just a couple years ago, and it was, uh, primarily, uh, thanks to Facebook, but, um, I’ve, uh—I’ve actually only, uh—well, I take that back, because there was one guy down in Tampa. Uh, uh, my roommates in, uh—in, uh, Fort Stewart—one of them lived in Tampa, the other was from Virginia, and I did—right after I got out, I kept—kept in touch with them a little bit, but, um, I actually really didn’t keep in touch with anybody, until, uh, one of my best friends from Germany, um—we had a, uh—we had a reunion, uh—uh, I guess it was—eight—nine months ago. Him[sic] and his family were coming through town here to go on a cruise, and, uh, that was the first time I had seen him in, uh—in 20 years, and, uh—and, uh, we had a—we had a good chat about the—about those times, and It was interesting to me, becau—because, it was, you know—I had my perspective, but it was interesting to me to get someone else’s perspective on the same experiences, uh, from—from 20 years prior.</p>
<p>So—yeah, and I did—now that I think about it, I did, um—oh gosh. This was probably a good 10 years—No. it’s more than that. Probably a good 15 years ago, uh, My Sergeant from—from, uh—from Germany, uh,—I did go and see him. He was—he lived up in Atlanta[, Georgia], and I did go and see him one weekend, and, uh, it was—it was kinda—it was interesting, you know, because, when you’re, you know—when he’s your Sergeant, you have one relationship, But when you’re both civilians, you know, 20 years later, uh, you can talk a little more freely, I guess you could say, and he was a good guy. That was another, um—you’d asked me earlier about, uh, influences and memories and stuff, and he was—he was, uh—he was a big influence on me. Sergeant Jones—he was, uh—he was a big influence—Sergeant Wilson Jones. Uh, He was a, uh, big influence on me. He was one of the best bosses that[sic] I ever had in my life, and, uh, I learned a lot about, um—I learned a lot about initiative and perseverance, uh, from working under him. He was—he was a good guy, and he’s still alive, to my knowledge.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>To my knowledge, he is.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, so maturing, growing up, and, uh, Sergeant Jones. Was there anything else, with your time in the military, uh, service—or, military service, that influenced your life since leaving?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Yeah, you know, uh, you know the—I learned the military changes ya, and, you know, whether it changes you for the good or the bad, I think it kind of depends on the individual, and the experiences that you have in there. Um, you know, Like I say, uh, I was fortunate enough, where we didn’t have any conflicts, um, going on, at the time. So, uh, you know, while—while I was standing on the wall, wolf—the wolf never came, and I’m happy about that.</p>
<p>But—no. The—the military changes you, and, you know, you—my maturation process, in that, you know, I learned a lot about, uh, you know, initiative, a lot about perseverance…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, self-esteem. In fact, you know, uh, Sergeant Jones—I reminded him of this story: when I—when I saw him, uh—it’s probably been a good 15 years ago, but, um, uh, you know, one time—and again, you know, 20 year old kid, you know? I don’t remember what exactly the details were, but he had sent me back to the supply room to find something. You know, so I went back there, and I looked around, and I didn’t found[sic]—find it. So I came back, and told him—I said “Hey, Sergeant,” You know, “I couldn’t find it.” and he said “Well, then you didn’t look.” And I said, you know— I was like, “What are you talking about? I just—I just got back from there. I couldn’t find it.” He said “No, if you had looked, you would have found it. Now go back there and find it.” And He was right. You know, it was back there, I just didn’t look hard enough.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that, you know—that’s one of the—I, you know—I could sit here the rest of the day, telling stories like that, but, um, you know, that’s something that’s carried with me through—really, through today. Um, you know, when I was working, I remember a, uh—a colleague of mine, when I was earning my PhD—um, I was, uh, uh, uh, you know—PhD is a stressful, stressful thing to go through, and I was—something was going on, and I was wound up about it, and I remember him saying, you know, “Hey,” you know, “Don’t worry about it, ‘cause you’re a warrior,” You know? You’re—Even though this is going on now, you’ll still be okay, because—and That’s directly rooted back into—into my military experience, in that, you know—in that perse—that perseverance.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so—yeah. All sorts of, you know—all sorts of, uh, uh, values, um, you know, that I—that I learned, and, you know, some of them were good. Um, uh, some of them were good. You know, I saw some, uh—uh, some experiences—not—I saw some things that I—that set a bad example for me, uh, which served me well, because I didn’t want anything to do with that. You know, so—yeah. Lots of—lots of things.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So what advice would you give today’s military members?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, phew. That’s a tough one, uh, you know, because we’ve got some conflicts going on in the world right now.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Also, when you enlist right now, uh, it’s quite possible you might end up in a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, so I would, you know—I—I would measure my words carefully, but, uh, you know, barring the combat part of it, um, you know, I would say—I would say to enjoy the time, and, uh—especially if you get sent overseas. Um, uh, uh, do some traveling. That was one regret that I have about my time in Germany is that I didn’t do a lot of traveling. We did some, uh, traveling. You know, Spain and France.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>We—we did some traveling, but, um, uh, I would like to have done a lot more traveling, in retrospect. Um, uh, and serve with honor. You know, that was One of the things that, uh—that attracted me to the military in the first place, uh—was, you know, uh, I saw examples of soldiers, and, they’re, you know—they’re people that[sic] are, um, uh, you know—that[sic] are serving something greater than themselves. You know, they’re making a sacrifice that’s not, uh, you know—they’re not just in there for self-serving reasons. They’re serving, you know, the freedom of the country, um, and, you know, again, that comradery. They’re just, you know—in short, they’re just something greater than—than themselves, and, you know, my advice would be, uh, to enjoy that, because, uh, it may end, when you get out of the, uh—when you get out of the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Alright. So, uh, what do you do in your free time now?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, surf [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>You still surf?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, I surf. I, you know, spend as much time with my daughter as I can.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, You know, still, uh—still working out. Uh, I have all sorts of hobbies. I like to cook. Uh, I fly radio-controlled airplanes. In fact, one of my recent hobbies—as of about two years ago, um—is, uh—is shooting. Uh, when I—When I went into the military, you know, I was a city boy.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>So I never grew up around guns or anything. Uh, And when I went in the military, uh, obviously, we shot. Uh, you know, I—I had, uh, a lot—we—we—I had some fun experiences on the range, shooting some, uh—some of the automatic weapons, and, uh, there was—there was a lot of those fun experiences in there, but I never really thought much about it, you know? It was just something we did.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And when we went to the range, I always enjoyed it</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh,but I never really—never really thought much about it. So, when I got out, um, you know, I never owned a gun. I was never around a gun. I just never thought about it. About probably three years ago now, a friend of mine, um, who was into guns, you know, said “Hey. You wanna come out to the range with me one day?” And I said, “Alright. Yeah. I haven’t shot, you know, in 25 years”—or however long it’s been. So I went out with him, and, uh, you know, what I was trained on was the M16 [rifle].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And the civilian version of that is AR-15.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So he had an AR-15. Um, you know, when I went out—when I took basic training, it was cold—we went out on a cold day, and, uh, I went out there, and, uh, you know, he gave his AR-15, and I did all that I knew to do, which was, you know, the way that I was trained in the military. So, you know, I got down into my prone position on the ground, and, you know, I put about six rounds in about, you know—about an inch in the target, and was thinking, <em>Man, maybe I missed my calling in life here</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br />‘</strong>Cause I hadn’t shot, you know—I hadn’t even picked up a weapon in 25 years, but being out there in the cold, um, you know, and the smell of the gun powder when you shoot it, and then—and then, remembering how to shoot, uh, you know, was muscle memory, um, and it all came back to me, and that was a, uh—that was a pleasant memory, because I—I remembered, uh, you know, those—those were always good times in the military, going out in the range, and that’s actually become, uh, one of my hobbies.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, you know, I own—I own several guns now. We go out—we go out shooting, about every Saturday morning, uh, on the range. Um, and that’s, uh—that’s a—that’s kinda reminiscing</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Over the, uh, uh—from the, uh—from the military days, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Do you ever take your daughter with you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, I took her once. She’s, uh—she’s not real, uh, uh, interested in guns, But I did, uh—I did take her out there once, just to show her that there was nothing to be scared of. Um, so, you know, she’s not—she’s not scared of them, but she respects them and stays away from them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, is there anything else you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, oh, my gosh. Um, [<em>sighs</em>] probably—I mean, uh, you know—I’m—I’m—I’m glad I went in. I mean, it—Like I say, it really shaped a lot of the values that I have, uh, these days. Uh, And, you know, it—sometimes—sometimes that’s not always good, because, uh, you know, when I’m, uh—when I’m in, uh—when I’m in, uh, a task mode, then I kind of have a flashback, you know, to the—to the military days, Like with, you know—like with Sergeant Jones. Like, hey, if you got something to do, get it done.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, I don’t want to hear any excuses. Get it done, but, um, no. I was—I was glad I went in. I did, uh—I did a lot of growing up, when I was in there, and, you know, uh, like I said, before I went in, I was not a student. Uh, when I came out, I was a student, and, uh, my—my GPA [grade point average], uh—I don’t know remember exactly what it was—but I got very few grades less than a[sic]—less than an A, uh, when I came out.</p>
<p>So, uh—so no. It was a—it was a good experience. Um, I’m glad I did it. Uh, you know, I respect the, uh—the guys that are going in now, and women—the people that are going in, uh, now, because you gotta—now, um, you know—I—I haven’t looked at the enlistment standards. I’ve never compared them across time, but I, you know—I think you’ve got to be smarter to go in now, because they have all this high-tech equipment…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and they’re doing things now that we didn’t do, uh—that we didn’t do back then. So I really—I really have a lot of respect for the people going in these days. In addition to the fact that, when you go in now, you may wind [<em>yawns</em>] —you may wind up in a combat zone very easily, in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, um—so yeah. I could, uh—I could, uh—I could probably sit here all afternoon…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>If you gave me the opportunity, but I don’t think you have enough tape to do that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, alright. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sturm…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>For your time. It was an honor to be able to interview you</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I very much appreciate you for your time and service.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Veterans’ Day just passed. So we’ll be in touch again, and we’ll have a copy of your interview for you.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I’ll bring it to you on the [UCF] Lake Mary campus…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Because I want to see it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>42 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. There are probably more things I could have thought up. I didn’t know how much tape I…</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially Operation Urgent Fury.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Nuremberg Trials.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Officially Operation Eagle Claw, or Operation Evening Light, or Operation Rice Bowl.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Northrop B-2 Spirit.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> January 17, 1991 – February 28, 1991.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
210th Field Artillery Brigade
34th Infantry Division
accountants
Advanced Individual Training
advanced training
AIT
alcohol
alcoholic beverages
alerts
AR-15
Army Special Forces
basic training
beers
budget cuts
cold war
colleges
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
comradery
CVHP
David Lee Roth
defense
defense budgets
Desert Storm
desert training
E-3
E-4
education
Enlisted Rank 3
Enlisted Rank 4
enlistment
Federal Republic of Germany
firearms
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Fort Irwin & the National Training Center
Fort Jackson
Fort Stewart
Frankfurt Airport
Frankfurt, Germany
FRG
Georgia
German Air Force
Germans
Germany
Gulf War
Gulf War I
guns
Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
Herzo Base
Herzogenaurach, Germany
HHB
higher education
Iraq
Iraq War
James Earl Carter, Jr.
Jimmy Carter
Katie Hollingsworth
Kuwait
Kuwait War
law enforcement
Luftwaffe
M16 rifles
military training
Mojave Desert
music
musicians
National Training Center
NCO
non-commissioned officers
Nuremberg Trials
Nuremberg, Germany
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Persian Gulf War
PFC
police
police brutality
polizei
Private First Class
range shooting
rapid deployment forces
Ray Sturm
Republic of Iraq
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Wilson Reagan
sergeants
shooting
shooting ranges
soldiers
Special Forces
Specialist 4
State of Kuwait
supply
terrorism
terrorists
Thirty-Fourth Infantry Division
training
Two Hundred and Tenth Field Artillery Brigade
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Special Forces
UCF
University of Central Florida
Van Halen
veterans
veterans' benefits
Warrior Thunder
weapons
weather
West Germany
Wilson Jones
Winter Park
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/85b20fcd21a4770ae303f58fecc92c7e.pdf
d474090e15b97704aa950c0da4f7b14d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Michael Partain
Alternative Title
Oral History, Partain
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Michael Partain (b. 1968), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War Era. Partain was born at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina on January 30, 1968. He enlisted in the Navy on January 2, 1988, but was disqualified due to illness on February 20. During his short service, Partain trained at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Amanda Hill on March 6, 2014. Interview topics include Partain's background, enlistment, basic training, advanced training at the Nuclear Propulsion School, the effect of the Navy's presence in Central Florida on the region, NTC Orlando, training, his illness and subsequent qualification, and life after leaving the Navy.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:29 Background<br />0:01:40 Enlistment<br />0:04:00 Naval Training Center Orlando and Nuclear Propulsion School<br />0:06:02 Naval presence in Central Florida<br />0:08:08 Illness and disqualification<br />0:11:18 Basic training, group mentality, and team-building<br />0:23:16 Social life and lessons learned<br />0:25:48 Routine, classes, and Uniform Military Code of Justice<br />0:28:48 Most difficult aspect of boot camp and proudest moment<br />0:31:50 Post-Navy life, breast cancer, and Tetrachloroethylene contamination<br />0:37:07 Lessons learned from the Navy<br />0:39:07 Legacy of NTC Orlando<br />0:43:25 Navy hospital<br />0:45:06 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Michael Partain. Interview conducted by Amanda Hill at Partain's home in Orlando, Florida, on March 6, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 47-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina
Winter Haven, Florida
Recruit Training Center Orlando, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Partain, Michael
Hill, Amanda
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Contributor
Van Zandt, Carli
Date Created
2014-03-06
Date Modified
2014-09-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-06
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
406 MB
223 KB
Medium
47-minute and 17-second DVD audio/video recording
23-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Amanda Hill and Michael Partain.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Today is March 6<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I’m interviewing Mike Partain, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Amanda Hill, and with me is [Carolyn] “Carli” Van Zandt running the camera. We are interviewing today Mr. [<em>laughs</em>] Mike Partain, as part of UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at Mike’s home in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Mr. Partain, will you please start off by telling us, uh, where and when you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I was born at, uh, Camp Lejeune Marine Corps Base in North Carolina in January of 1968.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>So your parents were in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>And[?] my father was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate and a Marine Officer.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>In North Carolina?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, he served in the Marine Corps, uh, in North Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>And so what did your mom do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, my mother was a housewife. Uh, she’s a French Canadian from the providence of Quebec[, Canada], and they met when he was, uh, in the training crews at the Naval Academy.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I have one sister, uh, born in Bethesda Naval Hospital<a title="">[1]</a> in 1970.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>And growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, well, after my father, uh, resigned his commission from the Marine Corps, we moved to, uh, Central Florida—Polk County.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>How old were you when he resigned?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, four years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So you moved here pretty early?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I’ve been here pretty much all my life. This is—this is home. Uh, Camp Lejeune’s pretty much just a name on a birth certificate.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Were your par—were your—was your father involved in the Navy—the Navy at all when he moved here?</p>
<p><strong>Partain <br /></strong>No, no. He was out of the service by then.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So what did you do before you entered the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, I was a college student. Uh, went to Florida State University for my first year of college and, um, didn’t do too well my first year, and when my father got my report card, uh, he informed me that I was on my own.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>That’s why I joined the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So that’s why you joined the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Alright. So how old were you at that time?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, I was 19.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>19. So why the Navy? What…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the—we’re a military family. My grandfather had, uh, served in the Marine Corps. Um, my father was in the Naval Academy and graduated 1966, and, uh, served in the Marine Corps of his commission. So going to the Navy was an opportunity. I, uh, saw a lot of different opportunities I can do in the Navy—pay for my education. That was my main thing was to get my college paid for, since, uh, I didn’t do too well my first year.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>What were you looking to study?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, actually, I went in to the Tampa MET [Military Entrance Test] center<a title="">[2]</a> for the, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—for testing and did the ASVAB [Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery] test—scored very well—and they pulled me aside and asked me if I would take the nuc—nuclear test for Nuclear Propulsion School in the Navy, which I did and scored, uh, very high on that. High enough that the commanding officer of the MET center came to me and asked if I would sign an enlistment contract right away, and I said, “No,” and that I was—that I wanted to think about it first, because I wasn’t totally sure that I wanted to go into the military, and I made the mistake of mentioning my father being, uh—was a Naval Academy graduate, and he ended up calling my father, and, uh, the two of them got together, uh, and I didn’t have a chance. I ended up signing my enlistment contract about an hour later.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Wow, so pretty easy decision?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, it was. I mean I delayed my enlistment. This was in April 1987, when I was still, um—actually, uh, I had just got home from college and, um, I delayed my enlistment until January of 1988.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Why delay?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Just wanted to go in the winter months. I—I don’t like the summer. So I didn’t want to run around in the summer and do PT [physical training] in the summertime.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Makes sense.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I joined the Navy to go see the world, and I ended up travelling about 45 miles north of where I lived and grew up in Orlando, Florida, at the Orlando Naval Training Center.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Right. Were you, uh, looking to be trained then in a specific career at that point or were they looking to train you in a specific career?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I was accepted into the Nuclear Propulsion School for the Navy, and I had to complete my basic training and then A School after that, which were both, at that time—both housed at the Orlando Naval Training Center, uh, here in Orlando.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about the nuclear propulsion?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I didn’t get that far. Um, uh, basically, from my understanding with the school, once I completed, uh, basic, I was gonna go into A School at the Nu—uh, Nuclear Propulsion School, and—which, um, I—if I completed that, I did a six-year hitch as part of the contract, and if I completed the school, then I would have gone into the fleet as an E[nlisted Rank]-3, which would have been Petty Officer [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So that specific school—what are they—what do they do?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, they train the engineers to run the, uh, nuclear propulsion systems for the Navy’s aircraft carriers, uh, and sub—uh, submarines that are nuclear-powered, and it’s a promising career path. It opens up a lot of doors. It was very tough. Academically, it was a very stringent program. If you failed, uh, out of the program, then you went into the fleet and served the rest of your hitch [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What—what were you hoping to do with that?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, it was going to be a skill for me. Um, Open the doors, uh, to—you know, to have a trade and, uh, also go to college. Uh, my plan was to finish college, once I graduated—uh, once I completed my hitch in the Navy, and then take the expertise I had learned in the Navy, along with a—hopefully, a degree in nuclear engineering, uh, and go work in a private industry.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So then—so you began your training at NTC [Naval Training Center Orlando] in January of 1988?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>Correct? Okay. So you were pretty familiar then with the region, right? [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>As far as Florida? Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Yes, um, [<em>laughs</em>] so were you…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I joined the Navy and see world, and go right into my own back yard. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right. Were you familiar with the Navy’s presence in Orlando already?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yes, I mean, I—growing up here, you know, the—growing up in Florida, especially, uh, at my age, and when the—the telltale signs of World War II are still all over Florida. Uh, Most of your airports are former Army or Navy Train—, uh, naval, um—Sorry. Most of your airports are former Army or naval training centers for the pilots during World War II, like Sebring [Regional Airport]. Even McCoy [Air Force Base] airfield, which is now the [Orlando] International Airport, was a training field, uh, during World War II. So, you know, there’s always been a military presence in Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>How—do you remember how you found out about that presence?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>As far as—I mean, growing up, I mean, you see the bases. Um, you got NASJAX [Naval Air Station Jacksonville] up in Orlando.<a title="">[3]</a> You got [Naval Station] Mayport—I mean, sorry—NASJAX up in Jacksonville, and you got Mayport. You got Patrick Air Force Base, McCoy Air—I mean, uh, MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa.</p>
<p>Um, as a child growing up, um, the flight path for the Air Force, uh, fighters, to do practice bombing over in, um, Avon Park Bomber Range,<a title="">[4]</a> went over our house. After—every afternoon, we’d see [General Dynamics] F-16s [Fighting Falconfly] fly over and practice in Avon Park, and they’d come back, and sometimes they’d fly low, and, you know, you’d always see the military around growing up here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Why do you think the Navy chose to locate a recruit training center in Central Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, no idea, to be honest with you [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, I know during, uh—when a lot of military bases were here in Florida, or located here in Florida, because of the climate here allowed training year round, especially with the flying conditions. So—but as far as the Navy’s base in Orlando and the training center, um, I have no idea why they, uh, located it here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>That’s fair. Uh, so how long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I arrived in January, uh,—I think it was January 2<sup>nd</sup>, 1988, and I went through the first part of basic training. I made it through about four weeks—almost my fifth week—into, uh, training at, uh, NTC Orlando, And I broke out in a rash. Um, One of the curious things is it was a rash that I was born with at Camp Lejeune. Um, and periodically through my life, whenever—like if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, or, thing—you know, was around chemicals and stuff, I’d break out. Well, I broke out in this rash, and they couldn’t figure out why or where it was coming from. Uh, because normally, I could control it, um, and it just didn’t want to go away.</p>
<p>So the Drill Instructor, [<em>clears throat</em>] um, sent me down to the infirmary—the—the naval hospital, and they held me there for, uh, about a week or so, and tried to figure out what was wrong. They finally came up and said that, uh, I was, uh—because of the rash, that I was going to be disqualified for my program…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, in the Nuclear Power School.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did they know what it was at that point?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, uh, they just called it an “atopic dermatitis.” Uh, and they informed me that it made in ineligible to go to the Nuclear Power School. So I ended up, uh—they asked me if I wanted to stay in the fleet, but that meant chipping paint for the six years I was gonna be in the Navy. So I asked them to go ahead and send me home and, uh, end my enlistment at that point, which they, uh, gave me my uniform. I went home as an E3, so I dressed up in my Navy blues, and got my sea bag, and, uh, they sent me home, but, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] the, um, wha—during that time that they told me I was going home to the time I went home, they put me in what they called a “medical hold company,” where it was—I was taken out of my training regimen, and then put into a, uh, barrack, where other people who had been medically disqualified—they kind of let us sit there for a while. It was about two weeks before they told me, uh, that I had my orders to go home, and that—that’s another—I’ll tell you about that later.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was it like when you found out that you had to leave the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I mean, the—the, uh—it was a disappointment, because I really had looked forward into getting into the career. Um, I had volunteered to do submarine duty, which was an extra pay, and, um, you know, to me, this was going to be my livelihood. Something—a school and trade that I could pick up and, uh, um, learn, and spend—you know, be able to make a career for the rest of my life with. So I was kind of left with the, um, uh—you know, I ended up coming home, and having to refigure my life and what I was going to do, and I ended up, uh—actually I ended up going to work for [Walt] Disney World after that, and I worked at Disney World for three years while I put myself through college [<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So let’s back up a bit…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>To when you first got to the—the base. Um, what were your first impressions?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, you know, it’s intimidating. I mean, you’re coming off civilian life, even though I grew up in a military—military family. Um, nothing prepares you for the shock of going into the world of, uh, you know—of—of the military. It’s a totally different experience.</p>
<p>Um, the first shock is your lose your individuality. Uh, and that was, uh—that was the hardest thing for me to get used to—is the fact that you had to assimilate yourself into their world and their program, and, um, you know, you lost the—the “me” part of yourself, for at least awhile.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about that? What specifically caused those changes?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Well, I mean, the first thing they do—they bring you in and you line up. Um, you know, they issue you a uniform, um, and it’s an assembly line. You’re given, uh, you know, your boots, eh, and all your gear, and you have to stencil your name on the gear and, uh—and your sea bag, and, um, and then they, uh, shave all your hair off. Uh, they, uh, you know—just going through that is, eh—it’s more—like I said, it’s an assembly line type of impersonal, um—uh, the impersonal, um, process, because, I mean, you’re—you’re moved from one place to another and, you know, you gotta, uh—eh, you just get to feel like you’re a cow sometimes, um, and, uh the other, you know—the other thing is the—as you go in and you’re all wearing the same clothes, you all look the same.</p>
<p>So everybody is the same, and that’s what I mean by “lose your individuality,” and, uh, then, you know, once you get into the barracks that begins the training process, which one of the first things they start doing is breaking down the individual and starting to form a unit. Because, you know, everybody—when everyone’s acting individually, you know—you have your own routines and stuff like that, and one of the first things [<em>laughs</em>] I remember—I knew this was going to happen, uh, because my dad had warned me, but, uh, everyone settled down for the night, and one of the first memories—and it was funny, because it just totally, uh, unnerved me—was, uh, I think, at about three o’clock in the morning, uh, the, uh—the DI [Drill Instructor] came in and threw the trash can down the barrack hall, making all kinds of rackets and screaming, “Get on the line! Get on the line!” And, um, I remember getting—getting up and, um, getting on the line in front of the barracks, and, you know, we’re in our skivvies and socks, and I’m sitting there shaking, and, um, I’m thinking, you know, <em>What the hell? What the hell have I done?</em> Because I don’t like getting up at three o’clock in the morning.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /> </strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I don’t think anybody really does, especially when someone’s screaming at you and throwing a—a metal trash can down the—down the barrack, uh, hallway, and if you don’t—the—the trash cans being metal, makes a hell of a lot of noise, especially in a barrack on a tile floor. So that was the—that was the first morning of recruit training, and, um, they had a lot of different things in store for us as we, uh, went through this process. So it was—some of it was humorous. Um, I knew the purpose of it, which was, you know, some people—some of the guys didn’t do well with it, but, you know, I kinda laughed with some of the stuff that they were doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So life in the barracks then—if everyone’s the same, how does that affect the group dynamic?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, you still have people that look out for themselves. That’s the big thing is, when you get people who just don’t—you know, they’re used to taking care of themselves and, um, not—not thinking as a community. Because the whole purpose of the training is to get you thinking beyond yourself, to work as a team, to work together.</p>
<p>Um, like one of the first things that happened, um, when we, you know—we had to march together and they had to form us together and started doing things, of course everyone’s going off in different directions. Um, and I remember one morning, we went out and did PT—running around. and, um, came back, and everything that everybody owned at the barracks, uh, including, uh, the mattresses, the actual bunk racks—everything was heaped up into this massive mountain in the middle of the barracks. and we all walked in and we’re just looking at this. You know, everything we had was in—in the middle of the barracks, and the, of course, the DI comes out screaming at us, you know, uh, “Get this shit together!” You know, “Get this place in order and get it squared up and you’ve got 15 minutes, and, I mean, eh, the—we all looked at each other like, <em>What the hell</em>? So everyone dove[sic] in and people were calling out names and, you know, “I’ve got such and such.” and we’re spreading[?] out trying to get the barracks back up, and of course, we didn’t do it in 15 minutes, which proceeded to have more pushups and things like that that we had to do, because of that. Uh, the—once we get it squared away, it happened again, and, uh, later on, when it happened again, we did get it done in 15 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Are there any other examples of training experiences that helped shaped your relationships with other recruits in your class?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, well, just—I mean, everything that we did. I mean, from the marching, I remember, um—uh, I didn’t—I don’t’ keep my step very well, so I had a hard time learning how to keep in step, and, uh, the guy next to me was trying to show me how to skip to keep back, you know—to get myself back into step. For some reason, I have no rhythm. So I just—I was just constantly out of step, and I would try to march on the outside, um—on the edge of the sidewalk, so that that way I wouldn’t be seen as much, but never failed. I always got called out for that, but one of the other things they had, uh—one morning, we had inspection and they called in all the, uh, company commanders.</p>
<p>The DIs came in and proceeded to rip the place apart, uh, while we’re standing there on the line. and they would come up to each recruit—and it didn’t matter how clean or how great you had your rack—your stuff stowed—there was always something wrong, and in my case, um, uh, I didn’t make my bed very well. Uh, and they ripped my sheet off, and the DI came up to me—I’m six-foot -two—and my DI was—I think he was probably five-foot-eight or—I mean, he would’ve done really well in the submarine. Um, But he came up to me and threw the sheet over my head, and was screaming at me and says, “You can’t make you’re fucking bed!” And he goes, “How old are you recruit?” “Nineteen, sir,” and he goes, “You are Casper the Catch Edge Ghost. You are to go around to each recruit in this command and walk up to them and raise the sheet and go, ‘Boo. I am Casper the Catch Edge Ghost.’ And put your sheet down and go to the next person. Raise your sheet and go, ‘Boo. I’m Casper the Catch Edge Ghost,’” and I had to do that the entire barrack for the, uh—for the company there, which I—you know, you can’t laugh, and I—inside, I’m laughing my ass off, because—I mean, to me, it’s hilarious, but if you laughed, it just makes it a lot worse.</p>
<p>So I proceeded to do that, and, um, you know, they, uh—and to this day, I don’t make my bed [<em>laughs</em>], and it’s for—ever since then, I do not make my bed, but, um, I had to, um—I just, uh, —it’s one of those things that—it stuck with me, I guess, but, uh, stuff like that—I mean, we had, um, you know—people didn’t have their stuff stenciled right, so they to, uh—they made them fix that. Just little things, and going through and—this process: they come in and they work on people and break them down, and then start building back up as a team, and over time, start marching together and you start doing activities, um, and things like that to—to get to work together as a team, and, um—the people who are struggling, you start to see your leaders step up to help them and, you know, get them in line, because the ones that were having problems—then they started getting, you know, pressure put on them, because they weren’t, you know, keeping up. Like, you know, I learned how to march and, you know, thankfully learned how to skip to catch my step and would get myself back in line, but, uh, you know, there are some guys that struggle with that. They didn’t know how to do it or they were intimidated by it, um, and, you know, you start to work together, so that they can’t get you. Meaning—“they” meaning the drill instructors, and, um, that—that was the neat part to see—everyone start to coalesce together and work together.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>When—do you remember a specific moment or a specific activity that you really started to notice that team coalescing?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, I would say the, uh—we had one time, where[sic] we had a head inspection, and, um, no one liked cleaning the bathrooms, and it’s, you know—in the Navy, the head is your bathroom. So we had a head inspection and, um, you know, everyone pretty much—we knew what was going to happen if we didn’t get it clean. So everyone just dropped everything, ran in there, got it cleaned up, cleaned up, picked up. I remember, um, for some reason, I remember doing—clearing behind one of the toilets with a toothbrush—Not—and not one we were using, but one that we had assigned for cleaning and stuff—and trying to get everything out and spic and span, and, um, that was nice to see that, because, at that point, everyone, you know—everyone was working as a team, and, uh, um, the last part of the training was where you saw the—the team-building. Uh, unfortunately, I didn’t make it past, um, my fifth week, so I didn’t get to do some of the other stuff that they did—firefighting together and other things that I didn’t get to—get to participate in.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you pinpoint as some of those qualities that really helped bring the team together—that transformation?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, the, uh—the qualities is the—it’s the individual learning that they’re not the center of the universe, and that’s one of the things, uh—basic training in the military is to break down the individuality, to have people understand that, you know, you’re—you’re part of something, and the world doesn’t revolve around you. Uh, some people get it quicker than others. Those that do, do very well in the military. Some never get it, but, uh, that was one thing that, uh—that they, you know—everything was designed to do that. Uh, to do it to break down the civilian and then recast him as a—as person who could think in a military world, because, when it comes down to it, one, you now—in the military world, there is a chain-of-command—a hierarchy—and you are expected to follow orders, and there could be times that something could be going on, and you’re given an order, and, as a civilian, you might question it and be like, <em>Well, I don’t feel like doing that right now, and</em> you can’t do that in the military, because someone may tell you to do something, um, like shut a door and secure the door, because there’s a fire, and if you start arguing with them, then the fire might spread out beyond the compartment and—and jeop—jeopardize the ship and everybody on it. So part of the—that training is to get people to understand, you know, hey, there’s a time, you know—the time to be a civilian is when you’re off duty, but when you’re—when you’re on duty, you have your military bearing, you have—you follow it, and you, you know—you work for the good of the unit.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>When you were off duty, was there ever any sort of social life with…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, when I was in training…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Amongst the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, no. There’s no liberty or leave—li—liberties really. There was no liberty, uh, in training. Um, the liberty took place when you graduated from boot camp. Um, so I did not get that experience. Uh, once—once I went into the medical hold company, and I stayed there, and, um, you know, that—that—once I got out, then I went home and that was it.</p>
<p>So, uh, one of the funny things that happened—um, my father and grandfather both sent in birthday cards for me, uh, while I was in training, and, uh—which normally wouldn’t be a problem, but they were being smartasses and they signed their card—they put in the address of the card—my father put down: “Captain Warren B. Partain, Jr., USNC” —I’m sorry—uh, “USNA class of ’66,” and, uh—and then my grandfather put, uh: “Major Warren B. Partain, Sr., USNC, retired,” and, um, the DIs, of course, got the letters and they called me up to the office, and, uh, you had to walk up to the office, you had to bang on the door and announce who you were, and then asked permission to enter in, and, uh, so I get into the office and, um, I see the birthday cards in my DI’s hand, and he goes, “So your father was a—was a ring banner?” And I knew right then what my dad had done.</p>
<p>The “ring banner” is a term—a derogatory term—for a Naval Academy graduate. So he goes, “Drop and give me 20.” [<em>laughs</em>] So—and he goes—of course, that wasn’t good enough, so I ended up doing like I think 60 or 70 pushups. Um, and of course, you know, that was because of what my grandfather and father had done, but, um, it was their amusement [<em>laughs</em>], but he wasn’t a mean guy. I mean, they started to like me. They’re not, um—it’s not like they’re sadists or anything like that—the drill instructors. They do it for a purpose, and then, you know. As you mature and things like that, you get to see what they’re trying to do and they really begin to teach you.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you say that purpose is [inaudible]? What were they trying to teach you?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, how to conduct yourself in a military fashion. A military bearing.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Like one of the things—one of the things I still remember is to make sure my gig line is straight. Um, you know, when you get dressed and, uh, get everything together, your buttons line up with your belt—the edge of your belt buckle and your—and your zipper, so you have what’s called a “gig line.” It goes straight up from—from your neck down to your crotch [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was daily life like as a Navy recruit?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, everything was structured. I mean, you got in the—in the training, you got up at a certain time, you ate at a certain time, uh, you PTed at a certain time, uh, You had training and different things, uh, at—at different, um—at different times, and then they put you to bed. So you had no choice. I mean, very little free time. The only time we really got free time was laying in the rack before you went to sleep.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, they kept you too busy. so you talked to your, um—your, you know—your bunkmate and the people around you, but for the most part you’re doing what they—they put in classes and they teach, you know—they—one of the first things they start teaching you is the UCMJ for the Univer[sic]—Univerm[sic] —Uniform Code Military Justice, which is the rules and regulations of the Navy. You know, how to salute, when to salute, um, how to march, uh, what you can and can’t do, um, And just, you know—it’s an emersion into a different life style.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Who were—you said you were taking classes, so who were your instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, just other, uh—other, um—sometimes they were other Dis, sometimes they were, uh, just other people on the base. Um, No one that I really remember specifically.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. Do you remember any of your specific classes?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, like I said, most of it— like the UCMJ. One of the funny ones, uh—probably not appropriate for this, but it’s one of those things that stuck in your mind. We’re sitting there showing slides and talking about the UCMJ, and they had, um—they had this slide come up, and it was on a pink background. It had a sailor sitting down, and on his lap, he had a dog, and there was a big circle with a line through [<em>laughs</em>] it for no bestiality, and I about but laughing when I saw it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>But they had—I mean, just stupid things like that, but, uh, the, uh, you know— when they start getting to the later weeks, like I said, they—[inaudible]—they—they’d have you march, and there was a lot of drill to get you to un—to get your body into the routines, and then later on, you start doing more class work, and, um, they, uh—like I said, they—they—one of the big things was firefighting. We are out doing firefighting duty, and then they have one a week, where you’re working KP [kitchen patrol] duty and stuff like that for the kitchen.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Uh, Could you clarify for me what, um—the acronym UCMJ?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>University[sic] Code of Mil—Universal[sic] Code of Military Justice. <a title="">[5]</a> It’s the law for the military. So the military has its own, um—basically its own judicial system, uh, that’s separate from the civilian one. So they administer their own laws, and, uh, courts, and everything. So, like if I did something wrong, then I could be, uh—they have what’s called a “captain’s mast” or “court-martialing.” and your—whatever infraction, then you’ll assess whatever penalty or—or, uh, punishment that they have.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>The hardest thing that I remember doing, um—I dunno. it was probably just the, um—I’m tempted to say—well, the—well, the thing that I didn’t like the most—that was hard or difficult for me—was in the military—medical hold company. Um, this—this was once they disqualified me from service. They put me in a limbo, um, where I didn’t know when I was going home. I didn’t know what was really going on, other than the fact that they were—they, uh—that I was being disqualified from the Navy, and they told me that, you know, it takes some time and it could take a couple days, a couple months. So I’m like, you know—no one likes to be in limbo, and they would have you do stupid stuff, Just to have you do it. Uh, like we went in to one barrack and we scrubbed the whole barrack with hand brushes, on our hands and knees, and it was just, um—stuff like that. That was, you know, trying not to get negged out. Um, that was the hardest thing for me.</p>
<p>I mean, to me, the training is easy. Um, you know, doing the physical activities, the running, uh, the marching, the learning. That was easy and it didn’t bother me. I mean, I enjoyed, um, the challenge of that. The hard part for me was when I realized that I was not going to be able to stay in the Navy, Having to wait, and then wait for the bureaucracy to process—process me out. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Before we move on to that moment, um—because I do want to talk about that—can you tell me one moment where you felt really proud of your work in NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, the—I think the proudest moment—I still have it—is, uh, my photograph. Um, they brought us in after we shaved us, and we’re all cleaned up, and they dressed us up, and they marched us in, and we took our photograph with the American flag behind us, uh, so we could send it home to Mom and Dad, and that to me was the proudest moment. Um, I—I still have that photograph. I have it on my Facebook page, and, um, I keep that, and, uh, you know—yeah[?]. It’s just a little snot-nosed kid in his little sailor’s uniform, but it—to me, that was something that I could show that hey, you know, I’m serving my country. I’m doing what’s right and trying to make, you know, things a little bit better than when I found it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you send it home to mom and dad?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What’d they say?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I think, uh—I mean, ma—they wrote me back, and I had a girlfriend, at the time too, and she wrote me. I had letters from her, um, on a daily basis. I still got them, and, uh, the, uh—I’ve got a stack of letters about that thick that she wrote to—back and forth, and that was nice, you know, to have someone writing back and forth. It—it kind of killed the monotony. You’d look forward to—you know, that was you’re little piece of individ—individuality. You get your letter and mail call and—and to read that, and, uh—but yeah. I sent that home to Mom and Dad, and my girlfriend.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So when did you leave the Navy then?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I was, um—it was—I don’t remember the exact day, Um, but it was in February, uh, of ’88. It was roughly about two months after I’d got there. I think I served just under 60—60 days, or somewhere close to 60 days, and, um, basically they came in and told me to collect my gear, um, get my dress blues on, and they sent me home. See, when I enlisted, I enlisted, instead of as a, uh—um, going in as a seamen, I would have—when I completed everything, I would have come out as a, uh, Petty Officer—an E-3.</p>
<p>So, um, they allowed me to go home with a—with that uniform and that rank, which is kinda nice, you know? It was funny, ‘cause everyone else were[sic] being sent off, and I get my orders and am being put on a bus. They asked me if I wanted to go on a bus, or I think it was a train to Water Haven, and I said, uh, “Just drop me off at the airport.” I called my mom and dad and told them to come get me, because the airport’s, you know, 45 minutes from my parent’s house. Because a bus would have taken like 3 hours to get there. So I had them drop me off at the airport, and I played video games [<em>laughs</em>] for about two hours while I waited for my parents to come get me, but it was nice to, you know, walk around the airport in the—in my uniform and get home, and I saw my girlfriend in my uniform and that, uh—that’s always fun.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, so have you—what did you do once you left?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, once I was out of the Navy, I went back to college. Um, of course, the—my plan of having the Navy, uh, as a career and paying for my college that way kind of fell through. Um, I went to work for Disney World, and, uh, finished my AA [Associate of Arts] degree, and then transferred up to Florida State University and married my girlfriend, and I completed my degree up there, and, uh, you know, worked my way through college.</p>
<p>Made me appreciate my education a lot more, and, uh, one of the things ironic things and—that happened—and it kind of comes back full circle with NTC Orlando—um, seven years ago, I was diagnosed with, uh, male breast cancer. Oddly enough, my birthplace was extremely contaminated with, um, drinking water—I mean, uh, solvents in the drinking water, and one of those solvents is called Tetrachloroethylene, which is used in dry-cleaning, and it’s linked to breast cancer. Um, whenever I was a child growing up, I would break out into the rash I told you about, because—well, shortly after I was diagnosed, I went back, and I remembered my experience at NTC Orlando, and the fact that I had broken out in this rash after, uh, I had gotten on base. So I looked up the base, and like Camp Lejeune, NTC Orlando was declared a Superfund<a title="">[6]</a> site, um, uh, partly because of the Tetrachloroethylene dumped from the base drycleaner, which was located right next to the barracks, where I was housed as an enlisted, uh, sailor, uh—seaman—in, uh—in 1988, and the base was actually closed down in 1995, um, and listed in—into the Superfund site at that time, which, uh—it’s one of those odd things that I always wondered about is: how bad was the base contaminated? Because, soon as I got home, the rash that I had broken out with, while I was in training, cleared up</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Without any—within days of being home, and, uh—and it never broke out like that again, like I did when I was on base, and [inaudible]—when I rented on base, I was fine, and, uh—so it’s one of those things that makes you wonder, and my understanding is that the—the, uh, base drycleaner—he said they had been dumping this chemical on the base and it was a plume of it that actually stretched underneath the recruit training barracks, like I said, and ended up, I think, in Lake Druid—is where the chemicals were coming out.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did—was there ever any cleanup measures taken?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I don’t know. I didn’t look into that. I’ve been tied up with the Camp Lejeune issue since then, but one of these days, I’d like to go back. I’d heard some things that had happened here, but I didn’t follow the—the end results of, um, NTC Orlando after that. I know they closed the base down and I think the developed it—part of it as a private community.<a title="">[7]</a> And I heard there were some problems here, but, uh, you know, like I said, I didn’t really follow—follow up on it, but I thought I would mention it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you keep in touch with anyone from the base?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, one of the guys I enlisted with, um, actually, was a high school friend of mine. We both went into the Nuclear Power School together. Um, His name is Alex, and he was actually, um, accepted into the United States Naval Academy, like my father, and he still presently serves in the Navy. I believe he’s a Commander or a Captain now. I do not know his rank. I haven’t—I haven’t kept up with him the past couple of years, but I think he’s a commander. but he did serve—uh, he’s—he’s still serving, and, uh, actually got an appointment to the Naval Academy, which is one of—one of the things I was hoping to do myself.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Uh, so one of the things you mentioned earlier is that, um, the Navy teaches you that you’re a part of something larger.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Would you say that that’s something that you feel you’ve carried on to the [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, growing up in a military family, it’s always been indoctrinated into me for that. Um, Like I mentioned, I, you know, became involved in the Camp Lejeune issue mainly, uh, because, you know, I realized what had happened to me wasn’t unique, and I felt a responsibility to speak out and help the other Marines and families, which I’ve been doing for the past seven years. So, I mean, that’s—growing up in a military family, um, you know, you—it just—it’s service, God, honor, country. I’m mean, that’s the way I was raised, and when you go into the service, you’re taught God, honor, country.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Are there any other values or characteristics, um, of the Navy that you think transferred to the rest of your life, as well?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, I mean, the God, honor, country is[sic] primarily the core principles with which I’ve tried to guide my life.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you say is the most valuable lesson you learned during your time at the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, probably, never give up. You know, you always—you always keep moving forward and just, you know, never give up.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you remember a time while you were, um, in training that you felt like giving up, but didn’t?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, got lonely. I mean, left my girlfriend behind and, uh, there was a time where—yeah. I was thinking, <em>Okay. I’m going to be doing this, going off at sea for six months, and I don’t know if I like that, and</em>, you know you just—you look back and say, <em>Well, why did I join?</em> I joined because I wanted to get an education, I wanted to get a trade, and, you know, the Navy’s going to provide that, and, you know, you—you quickly overcome those things. Feelings are temporary [<em>sniffs</em>]. Good and bad [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What do you think the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando or the Navy’s presence in Central Florida has been?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—for me—and understanding what I have come across, because of my, you know—because of the issue with breast cancer—it—unfortunately, I mean, NTC Orlando’s gone. Uh, it’s no longer there. The vestiges are still here, but what the Navy left behind underground, that is going to be here for years to come, and that’s something that really has not been addressed in a great deal with the community. Um, And sadly, that—in the end, that becomes the Navy’s legacy—is not for the good things they did, but for, you know, the irresponsibility for leaving toxic chemicals behind.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What actions would you like to see taken to resolve those issues?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, I’m not familiar totally with the issue to—to see what they’ve done. I know, as part of the bra—uh, Superfund site, they’re required to cleanup. Um, to what extent they’ve cleaned up, I don’t know. Uh, there’s a lot of different laws and, uh, different, um, procedures in place, but, in the end, you know, that—that’s something the Navy, um—well, I don’t know what to say on that. Sorry. I got distracted. The ADHD [attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder] is killing me here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] That’s alright. That’s alright.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>But[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, so…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>It’d be—it would be nice to have…</p>
<p>[<em>phone rings</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>We have a phone distraction here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>It would be nice to have…</p>
<p><strong>Partain <br /></strong>Hm?</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>You were saying…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Okay. It would be nice to have an independent, um, historical analysis of what, you know—what the Navy did and exactly what the Navy legacy is. I mean, the—the infrastructure of the base is gone. Um, what’s left is the land that they owned on the base, and what did they leave behind on that land? and how will that affect the community? And sadly, you know, u, what was not cleaned up by the Navy, uh, will be there for some time to come and, you know, somebody’s gonna have to pay that cost.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So how do you think uh,—how is the NTC—well, you talked about how the base has changed. What about the region? Um, Central Florida as a whole. How do you think it’s been impacted since the base closed?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—I mean, the base itself, um, wasn’t a, uh, mega base, like you would have, say, with, um, Mayport Naval Station up in Jacksonville. Um, It had an impact on the community, uh, but not, you know—there wasn’t aircraft being serviced, um, there wasn’t[sic] ships and, you know, the contractors to work the ships and things, you know—servicing the ships or what have you. It’s a training center. So, uh—and I would say there was an economic impact. To what degree it was, I don’t know.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>kay. Um, what do you think visitors would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit the site of the base? The [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I haven’t been back since I left, and, um, I’ve driven by it a couple of times. Uh, there was a gaming store called Enterprise 1701 near the base, where I used to get my board games. That was a hobby I had, and I—it would be nice to go back and see the site, uh, of where the base was, and maybe something commemorating that it was here, and, uh, I am curious to go back and see and see—and see exactly what is there, uh, and what’s left, and what they’ve done with the, uh—with the base and the Superfund site stuff, ‘cause there’s[sic] things that I’m aware of because of my involvement with Camp Lejeune and being on Camp Lejeune, that, you know, when you go on base, you look at things, and unless you know what you’re looking at, you don’t know what it is. So I’m kind of curious to see what’s there on the base.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you ever go back?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I understand that the old naval hospital is the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital now.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Now…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>So I’d be curious to see that.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Were you ever at that hospital?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s where I was…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>That’s where you were disqualified.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Disqualified from service. They sent me to that hospital. I remember marching by myself with a chip, um, going down to the hospital, and, you know—and then, they were really puzzled, um, by what was happened with me. Matter of fact, I later got my me—my medical records from the Navy, and, uh, they were really puzzled why I broke out, because it was all over my arms and my face and was a blood red rash, and, um, they could not figure out what it was, and, uh, they kept asking all kinds of questions. They—they’re like, “Well, you had this when you si—when you signed up,” and I’m like, “Well, I was born with this, but it’s never been a problem like this,” and they said, “Well, how did you get passed recruit training or the recruit indoctrination and all that?” And I said, “Well, I wasn’t breaking out.” I said, “This is something that—normally, it comes and goes.” At the time, I thought it was, you know—in the wintertime, I’d break out or if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, and I thought, at the time, that it may have been the clothes—the polyester rubbing against my skin doing it. I had no idea that it could be anything else.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Because it would—I mean, I didn’t find out about what had happened to me at Camp Lejeune until, uh, 2007, which is 20 years after I joined.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, what was it like in the—the hospital—In the Navy hospital?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, just you’re standard, you know, ultra-clean hospital. Nothing—nothing special.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Nothing special? Okay. Uh, well, is there anything else you’d like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Anything you think I missed or we didn’t talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, I mean, it’s, like I said, the—I mean, for young people, the Navy—and in the military, in general, uh,—presents a lot of opportunities. You know, it’s not perfect. I could mention the contamination problem, with something present in the military especially during the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, but, you know, for young people, it’s an opportunity to start your life, to pick up something, uh, unique, to learn, and more importantly, it—it builds a sense of self-discipline inside you. ‘Cause it’s very easy to forget that, you know, there’s more to the world than just you, and serving in the military is productive. I mean, it—it gives you a respect for yourself, respect for others, respect for your country. Um, and, you know, it’s something that, you know—I think everyone should do as a citizen of this country, and, uh—I mean, that’s just, um—there’s a lot of positives that come out of it. Now, the leadership of the military—that’s another story.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What’s next for you?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, I’m 46, and, um, uh, for me, um, I worked my career, raised my children, and, uh, I’m going back to get my Master’s [degree] in history, and I’m actually going to be writing about and doing research with, uh, contaminated military bases, uh—is my—my career until I retire.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So your experience has really shaped where you’re headed?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—more my birthplace. The, uh—Because of what happened to me, uh, before I was born at a military base, but, you know, NTC Orlando is one of those curious things that, once I put two and two together, I looked at it, and eventually, I’ll do the research on it and—and learn what happened there, but right now, my focus is other places.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Well, thank you so much for your time.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, you’re welcome.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially called the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> United States Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Jacksonville.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Avon Park Air Force Range.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Uniform Code of Military Justice.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> Baldwin Park.</p>
</div>
</div>
airports
Amanda Hill
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery
ASVAB
atopic dermatitis
Avon Park
Avon Park Air Force Range
basic training
boot camps
breast cancer
captain's mast
Carli Van Zandt
Carolyn Van Zandt
CERCLA
cold war
colleges
Community Veterans History Project
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980
contamination
court-martial
CVHP
dermatitis
DI
disqualifications
Drill Instructor
E-3
education
engineering
engineers
Enlisted Rank 3
enlistment
Enterprise 1701
environmental cleanup
F-16
General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon
gig lines
higher education
Hill, Amanda
hospitals
illness
illnesses
inspections
instructors
Lake Druid
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
MacDill AFB
MacDill Air Force Base
marching
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
medical hold company
memorials
MET
Michael Partain
military code
military education
Military Entrance Processioning Center
Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa
Military Entrance Test
military justice
military training
monuments
NAS Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Station Mayport
Naval Training Center Orlando
NS Mayport
NTC Orlando
nuclear engineering
nuclear power
nuclear propulsion
Nuclear Propulsion School
orlando
Petty Officer
Polk County
recruit training
Recruit Training Command
recruits
ring banner
Seaman
special training
Superfund
Tetrachloroethylene
toxic chemicals
toxic cleanups
U.S. Air Force
UCMJ
Uniform Code of Military Justice
universities
university
veterans
Warren B. Partain, Jr.
Warren B. Partain, Sr.
water contamination
Winter Haven
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0b990020107e0d56317297dd472eadae.pdf
cacb275a5be012930c31e1cb34c46e87
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Chad Etchison
Alternative Title
Oral History, Etchison
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Description
An oral history interview of Chad Etchison (b. 1974), who joined the U.S. Navy in December of 1992 and served during Operation Active Endeavor and the Global War on Terror (GWOT). Ethicson was born in Anderson, Indiana, on December 12, 1974. He attended boot camp at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) and later served on several Navy frigates. He also served President Bill Clinton (b. 1946) as part of the White House Communication Agency and attended the Fleet Combat Training Center in Dam Neck, Virginia. In Orlando, Etchison served at the Naval Expeditionary Combat Command Operations Force Center and the Navy Operations Support Center. Ethicson achieved the rank of Senior Chief Petty Officer (CPO) and earned a Joint Service Commendation Medal, two Navy Commendation Medals, five Navy Achievement Medals, and a Presidential Service Badge.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Chad Eric Joyner on March 15, 2014, three months before Etchison left the Navy. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, NTC Orlando, the Grinder, Ethcison's naval career after Orlando, and how the Orlando area has changed over time.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:35 Enlistment<br />0:02:42 Boot camp and training at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando)<br />0:07:50 Taking leave and helping with recruitment<br />0:09:06 Relationships with other recruits<br />0:11:12 Instructors<br />0:12:58 Hardest part of NTC, proudest moment, and memorable story<br />0:16:22 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:20:53 NTC in comparison to other bases<br />0:22:15 Important locations at NTC Orlando<br />0:24:04 Graduation<br />0:24:54 Naval career after training<br />0:29:48 Boarding vessels and contraband searches<br />0:31:45 Contacts from the Navy<br />0:32:47 Naval values<br />0:36:50 How Orlando has changed over time<br />0:38:50 NTC€™s legacy and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:42:20 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Chad Etchison Interview conducted by Chad Eric Joyner at the UCF Libraries in Orlando, Florida on March 15, 2014.
Type
Sound
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Ethcison, Chad</a>. Interviewed by Chad Eric Joyner, March 15, 2014. Audio record available. Item DP0014895, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
Adobe Acrobat Reader
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
18-page digital transcript of original 43-minute and 22-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Ethcison, Chad</a>. Interviewed by Chad Eric Joyner, March 15, 2014. Audio record available. Item DP0014895, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Anderson, Indiana
Jonesboro, Georgia
Recruit Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Training Center Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois
Naval Training Center San Diego, San Diego, California
Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida
Naval Station Mayport, Jacksonville, Florida
Des Moines, Iowa
Navy Operations Support Center, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Ethcison, Chad
Joyner, Chad Eric
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-02-22
Date Copyrighted
2014-02-22
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
39.7 MB
198 KB
Medium
43-minute and 22-second audio DVD/MP4/CD
18-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Chad Eric Joyner and Chad Etchison.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Etchison, Chad</a>
Date Modified
2014-09-01
Transcript
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Today is March 15<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Chad Etchison, who served in the United States Navy. Mr. Etchison currently serves as Command Senior Chief at NOS—NOSC [Navy Operational Support Center] in Orlando. My name is Chad Eric Joyner. We are interviewing Mr. Etchison as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are doing this interview at the UCF Library in Orlando, Florida. Senior Chief, if you will please start off by telling us when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I was born in Anderson, Indiana, on December 19<sup>th</sup>, 1973.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a mechanic, uh, for Delta Air Lines and, uh—prior to the Navy, and my mom was a schoolteacher.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Did you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Yeah, I have a[sic] older brother, Mark, who’s, uh—currently works for Anderson University in Indiana. He’s a football coach, and I have a younger sister, Lana, who, uh, works in advertising in Atlanta, Georgia.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, well, when I was a very young age, we moved to Jonesboro, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. So I, uh, grew up in Jonesboro, went to elementary school all the way through high school right there in Jonesboro.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>What did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>High school. I joined right [out of] high school. I—I—actually, I joined the Navy, um, just a couple months into my senior year. So I know what I was going to do.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Um, when did you join?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I joined in December of [19]91.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>Why’d you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do after high school. Um, my brother had received a football scholarship. He was a big sports star. I got a couple offers, but I kind of wanted to step outside—or from under his shadow a little bit. Do something different. Uh, and both my grandfathers and father were Navy veterans and they talked about their time in the service, so figured I give it a shot, and that’s what I did.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>So that’s why you selected the Navy over the other branches?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Initially, I wanted to join the Army, but, um, my dad kind of talked me out of it and talked me into talking to a Navy recruiter, and, uh, once I talked to them, I got offered, uh the job I wanted, so I went with the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did your family feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, they were a hundred percent behind it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I left Georgia in November of ‘92, um, come down here to Orlando, and, uh, I was here for a couple of days, uh, classing up there waiting for all the recruits to get here for my class. Then we officially started boot camp on December 1<sup>st</sup> of ‘92.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were you trained to do for your career in the Navy? What—what were you trained to do for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At the time, I was just planning on, uh, doing my—I enlisted for six years, so my—my initial thought was just do the six years get the training and get out. See what was—well, what life had to offer me, but, uh, 21 years later, I’m still here so…</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>When did you begin your training at NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando, and how did this come about?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I graduated boot camp in February of ‘92.<a title="">[1]</a> Got two weeks leave and then started, uh, beginning of March—end of February of ‘92<a title="">[2]</a> at NTC Orlando. Uh, I went there, because of—that was the first phase of Electronics Technician School. Uh, the basic electronics was here in Orlando. Um, so I went through there and then from there I moved on to the [Naval Training Center] Great Lakes to finish my training.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did you know about the region, military, or—or any other information about Orlando, before arriving?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, actually, my—my grandparents—my dad’s parents—live in Winter Haven, Florida. So we’d been down here quite a bit vacationing and spending time with them. So I knew about the area—of course, the attractions and stuff, but as far as the military, um, I really didn’t know there was a boot camp here, until I joined the Navy. That’s—that’s where they told me I’d go.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I was there from Nov—at NTC? I was there from March until July of that summer, so several months.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your first impression of the base?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I loved the base. Uh, it was a training facility, so, uh it—it was nice. Um, act—actually, at the time, they were building some new schoolhouses, and, uh, I had several friends at Nuclear School there, so, uh, it was kind of like a college campus almost, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were your first days of the service like?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Confusing. Very confusing. Um, had no idea what was going on—on—all I knew was just they pointed this and told us to go somewhere, I just followed along and went with whatever they told me.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were you primary responsibilities at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, at NTC, I was, uh just a student primary. As a student, we would stand duty and have watch responsibilities, and, um, that’s pretty much it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did the watch responsibilities consist—contain or consist of?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, watch responsibilities, uh—you had watch every four days or one weekend a month. Uh, mainly just staying quarterdeck watch at the barracks, uh, making sure everybody who entered the barracks had proper ID, and a reason for being in there and you’d clean. Basically, cleaning duties, making sure the barracks stayed clean and the—all the showers, they stayed clean.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your overall impression of the recruits and their training at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At the beginning, you hated it, but at the end, um—I—I got a lot out of it. I thought it was a great experience. Um, you kind of grow up really fast, so the experience was—was for—for a young kid, to me, was a great—was great. I learned a lot—learned a lot about myself, you know? And the thing back then is there is no such word as “quit,” ‘cause they wouldn’t let you quit. They’d push, push, push, and when you thought you couldn’t go anymore, they’d push more. So it was a—it was a great experience for me. An eye-opening experience being, uh, fresh out into the world, right out of high school. So, um, I got a lot out of it, and I look fondly back on—on those memories.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What kind of social life existed amongst the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, first and foremost, respect, you know? Um, they demanded respect. Uh, it’s a little bit different nowadays, we’re more PC [politically correct] with the training, but back then, ultimately, you learned respect and you gave respect. Uh, that was the primary, and then, um, just the basics of being a sailor, what it was like to be a sailor, the routine of, um—of being a sailor and how to survive, uh, in the Navy [<em>sniffs</em>] [<em>clears throat].</em></p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How often was leave granted?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, in boot camp, it wasn’t. Um, when I was in training, if there was[sic] any special holidays, you got—you can request leave. Um, But everybody was offered two weeks leave, right out of boot camp, So I took advantage of that.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where did you go?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I went back home, and actually, I started a week with the, um, local recruiters, going back to my high school and talking about my experiences in boot camp and stuff, And doing that, they only charged me for one week.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did you feel about going back with the recruiters?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, it was a proud experience to walk back into your high school and see, uh, a lot of the students that were still there. Walk back in uniform and stuff, and—and knowing—even though, looking back, it wasn’t that big of accomplishment, but at the time, to me, you know, going through boot camp and doing that was a big accomplishment for me. It’s kind of, uh, rewarding to go back and have everyone see you in uniform.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did you training experiences shape your relationship with other recruits in you class?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>It—it taught me, um—the biggest thing I learned is—is, uh—there were recruits from all over the country. So many different backgrounds and, uh—and I didn’t realize how diverse the military was and, uh—and how different, you know people’s upbringings was[sic] all over the country. So you learn to adapt to people and learn to, uh—to accept people for who they are, and—because—because you got to work together as a team, and ultimately, that was one of the things they taught us in boot camp—how to work together as a team. So regardless of your differences—your background—ethic, religion, whatever—When you are part of that team, it does not matter. You’re all one team. You have to work together. So that was an eye-opener too.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, during boot camp, there was a couple of people that I interacted with, Uh—several recruits. One—one—one—his name was Tom Johnson. Um, he was from, uh, Red Wing, Minnesota, and I don’t know why, but me[sic] and him just got along. So me[sic] and him would talk on a daily basis.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>While you were at NTC, was there anybody…</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, actually, uh, he was also, um, in the electronics technician program too, so me[sic] and him were actually in the same class, and we ended up being roommates, and, um, a third roommate joined us. His name was Troy Slewroo[sp], and I become close friends with him and, uh, he’s still serving in the Navy as well, so I talk to him on a regular basis too. Um, after about a year, after I graduated Electronics School, I kind of lost track of Tom, so I’m not sure what happened to him, but Troy I still talk to on a regular basis.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Who were your instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At boot camp, I remember there was a Chief K, and, um BM1 Conner, and, uh, I’ll never forget them, ‘cause they made a huge impact on me, and actually, several years ago, I ran into—who’s now Master Chief Conner. He was a Command Master Chief at Naval Station Mayport, and I was on a ship out there. I was at training and I heard the voice, and I—<em>I know that voice.</em> So I walked around the corner, and, uh, there’s Master Chief Conner. I had a conversation with him and I was floored when he actually remembered who I was. So and, um, in—in A School— I don’t remember his name, but I know he was a retired chief—electronics technician—and, uh, he was my instructor. I don’t remember his name.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were your instructors like?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, during boot camp, the two instructors—they were hardcore workout fanatics. So, um, we got in pretty good shape, ‘cause, uh, they were all about pushups, sit-ups, doing all that kind of stuff all the time. So, um, they—they were pretty strict, but they also kind of had a joking side. They—they would joke with you and, um, they let you know when it was time to be serious and time to joke.</p>
<p>Um, my instructor for A School, um—he was great. He was a very personable person. Um, very strict in the classroom, but very approachable, and, uh, he helped us out a lot. Willing to do whatever he could to make sure we understand what he was teaching. So…</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, the hardest thing was going through Electronics Technician School. It’s just so much information thrown—THROWN at you at one time. Um, and, uh, it was fast and furious, and—and coming out of high school, um, the—the pace was just so much quicker than I was ever use to, And a lot of information to try and retain and, uh, just trying to figure out how to study and—and how to be able to regurgitate that information during our labs and during our tests. So, eh, that was very challenging for me, and—and I struggled a little bit at first, and, um, eventually the instructor to help me along kind of—I went to him and he taught me actually how to study and the proper ways to—to study to help us out, ‘cause the pace was just so fast.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your proudest moment?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, making it through basic electronics training. Um, I was proud when I graduated boot camp, but, uh, moving on with Electronics Technician School—that was the first hurdle you had to get through. Um, Otherwise, you could have went to—if you failed out, which we had a couple guys drop out, you got sent to the fleet to a ship—basically undesignated. So you were working with the boatswain, which is not the funniest job, and I joined to do electronics work, so once I got past that first hurdle of graduating electronics school, that was a big—big moment for me.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>Tell me a story of a time at NTC you will never forget.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>There—there’s a couple, but the one that stands out the most is, um—was in boot camp, ‘cause, uh, the first time we really got, uh, a PT’d [physically trained] really hard, they called it “cycling.” And, um, we did what they call a “rain party,” where all the windows were shut, all the bunks were pushed back, and they just PT’d us until condensation formed on the ceiling. We were just going and going, and going, and, uh at the time, we were, uh, [inaudible] <em>This is the worst thing in the world, </em>but looking back on it, it was like, <em>Wow.</em> That was—that was—that was the big start of it all, you know? The—the defining moment of how—how far you were going to be pushed, and you just kept going, because, you know, you were scared to stop, ‘cause these guys were on you, you know? So, um, that’s something I’ll never forget. Looking back on it, I—I kind of chuckle. Uh, that’s kinda fun, because they do not do that kind of stuff anymore, but, uh, um—yeah. I—it’s kind of a fond memory now, even though it wasn’t fun at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>And that was when you first arrived or the first few months [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, no. In the first week or so of being there, once we finally classed up and got moved into our barracks and started to settle in.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you describe the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and its function?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, unfortunately, when I was there, we didn’t get to do much on the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, ‘cause, uh, they were doing some work on it. So, um, we just got the basic tour, got to do some, um, simple line handling drills on it, and that’s about all we go to do, but like I said, because they were doing work on it. So, um, I remember seeing it though and, um, thought it was kind of small for a ship, but, uh, um, I wish we got to the full training, but we just didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>And what class of ship was the <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>You know, I don’t recall. Um, if I had to guess, I’d probably say it’s a frigate. A small vessel. Kind of really don’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was the official purpose of the Grinder and what it—it’s significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>The Grinder, um—that was the— main thing—that’s where we learned how to march, and—and how to follow, uh, calls and military protocol. Um, a lot of work was done on the Grinder. We—in the early mornings, we’d PT’d on the Grinder, and then, uh, we spent a lot of hours in the afternoon just doing marching drills, learning formations over and over and over, you know? Um, it was a big deal when you got your—your, um, dungaree uniform, and, uh, as soon as we got them, um, they took us back to the barracks, and dressed out in them, and went right out to the Grinder, and marched for hours, just to break in your boots. Which we, uh—actually, they were boondockers. They weren’t even boots. They were three-quarter inch, uh—three-quarter inch boondockers. So, um, a lot of blisters [<em>laughs</em>] and stuff, but—yeah. A lot of times, just learning drills and marching quite a bit.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you defi—how would you define the Grinder to other people? What would you—How would you—what did it mean to you?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Oh, um, gosh. At the time, it was a work area, you know? Um, at the time, it meant you—when they said, “Hit the Grinder.” You kind of like—<em>Aw, man. Here we go</em>, you know? You never knew what you were in for, um, whether we were going to PT at the time, even though we had a set scheduled for stuff, you know? If they said “Hey. We’re hitting the Grinder,” you kind of—you didn’t know what you were in for. You were kind of hesitant at the time, but, uh, that—that was the foundation for learning, like I said, the drills and protocol and all them calls, and, um—and on the Grinder, that’s where we become a team, ‘cause if one of us messes up in formation, we all paid the price, so we learned, you know, uh, about being a team.</p>
<p>So when—when I think of the Grinder, I think of, you know—that was the formation of teamwork there and that’s how—where we really learned, uh, to be one, and I guarantee you: by the time we did our graduation ceremony, um, we were all in perfect harmony and perfect step, because of we—we worked it all out there on that Grinder, and we were on that Grinder—we were on the Grinder every day, rain, shine, and, uh, I was here during the winter. It doesn’t matter what the weather was. We were out on that Grinder every day. So, um, a lot of hard work, but, um, a lot, uh—a lot of teamwork came out of that, you know?</p>
<p>So I guess I look back on the Grinder as a, you know—just a—probably a— significant place in Naval history, you know? Because if you think of all the sailors who walked on that Grinder—who learned the same lessons I did there, you know—it’s kind of sad that it’s gone now, you know? But it’s, you know—I never really thought about it until—‘til you asked me, so it—it’s—it’s a pretty—pretty significant, I would say, in my past.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What other training bases did you go to?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] when I left Orlando, um, I went out[?] to Great Lakes, Illinois, and, uh, did Phase 2 of Electronics School, which is advanced electronics, and then, I also went to, um, the [Naval] Training center out in San Diego[, California] for some follow-on schools before reporting to my first ship.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you compare the other bases to NTC [Orlando]?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I always questioned why they closed Orlando and—and, uh, kept Great Lakes open, because, uh, to me, the base here was nicer. It was in, uh, better shape. Um, But, understandably, the—the history up in Great Lakes, You know—the historical buildings. There’s a lot of history up there, as well, but, um, I always favored this base. It was just, you know—and—and those of us who been through—went through Orlando, kind of take ownership of it, and, you know, um, I [inaudible]—when I first moved down here, uh, six months ago, when I got transferred, I drove over to Baldwin Park just to see what was still there, and, uh, I was kind of sad to see it all gone, you know? I didn’t recognize anything over there anymore.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What other areas of the base were particularly important to the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, on boot camp, um, of course your barracks were very important, because, uh, if you ventured outside of that, you know, it—you—that was kind of your safe zone when you were with your—your company commanders, um, that and, um, there was a USO [United Service Organization] right outside, and, um, it was a big deal, ‘cause I know we were there over Christmas, and, um, we got, uh—I think it’s like 45 minutes-an hour. They let us—we were allowed to go over to the USO and just kind of let our hair down for a little while, and, uh, the USO would have some snacks and stuff for us, and, uh, that was always a—a—a great place, you know? I remember going over there and just loving it, and when, uh, we graduated boot camp, everybody migrated over to the USO and that’s where you met your families and stuff.</p>
<p>Um, on the NTC side, I remember there was a little club that had the ar—ar—arcade games, and jukeboxes, and pool. Um, that was—that’s kind of the place we all congregated either after school or on the weekends, um, and there was a McDonald’s. I remember the McDonald’s. Um, there was a volleyball court right across from it, um, in front of some barracks. So usually after school, we—we’d run over get changed and go to the volleyball court, and, uh, you know, spend the majority of the afternoon there, and the, uh, go for McDonald’s, grab something, and go back to barracks and study for the night, and be ready to go the next day.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is that McDonald’s still there or no?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I don’t think so. Not that I remember.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did it feel like to graduate and finally put the hat on?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Oh, the white hat? Yeah. Uh, that was a big moment. Um, you strive, and, uh, I remember wearing, you know, the other cap—your—your stocking cap all the time, and you’re looking[?] and you’re like, <em>Aw, I can’t wait until I get the white hat. Can’t wait to get</em>—you know, ‘cause to use that was the signal of a sailor, and once you got the white hat, you know, you knew you were almost there. Um, so that was a big goal that everybody was striving for, was to get the white hat, and then once you got it, you kind of, you know—you kinda strutted around, you know, ‘cause you saw all the other companies that didn’t have theirs yet. So you felt a little better than everyone else. So it was—it was a good feeling.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did you do for the Navy after you completed your training?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, when I finished, um, I reported to my first ship the USS <em>John A. Moore</em>. Um, I was on there for, uh, three years. Um, deployed a couple times with them. Um, I got to do some work on the USS <em>Wadsworth</em>—help out some fellow ETs [Electronic Technicians] for some time.</p>
<p>After that, I—I transferred to the White House Communications Agency [WHCA]. I was fortunate to get picked for that, and, um, I was—I served under President [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton—his last three years, and, uh, Got to setup and maintain all the communications equipment for the President and Secret Service, and, uh, one—one of my primary jobs was to work in the limo shop, so I got to install maintain the presidential limousine, the communications equipment.</p>
<p>From there, I went to Fleet Combat Training Center in, uh, Dam Neck, Virginia, and, uh—and worked on radar systems there. Um, and I—I was fortunate enough to make chief while I was there, and, um, after graduating there I went to the USS <em>Simpson</em>—was on the <em>Simpson</em> out of Mayport, Florida, for, uh—for three and a half years. When left the USS <em>Simpson</em>—when I deployed on to a NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] cruiser, during the [Global] War on Terrorism,<a title="">[3]</a> with the <em>Simpson</em> and then, um, from there, I went to the, uh, Naval Expeditionary Combat Command. I—I helped stand that up. It was a small staff when I got there. Probably 30-40 people, and, uh, we built up the expeditionary force and when I left we were a staff of 300, uh, plus sailors, and, um, from there, um, I went to Des Moines, Iowa, of all places, with the Navy. Um, I was a Senior Enlisted Advisor for the Navy Operations Force Center out in Des Moines, Iowa. While I was out there, I, um—I made Senior Chief at NACC, and when I was out there, um, I went to the Navy Senior Enlisted Academy and got, uh—and applied and got selected for a Command Senior Chief program, and so, uh, I was at a, uh—a Command Master Chief conference and my [inaudible] was there, and, uh, I got to talking to him, and—and, uh he told me that the, uh—that the Navy Operations Support Center here in Orlando had just, uh, received a Command Senior Chief billet[?], and, uh, asked me if I was interested in coming down here. So, uh, Aft—I thought about it, and I was like, <em>You know, I’m getting to the point where I might want to retire. </em>I figured that would be a great place to retire. So I started my career there and—and I thought it would be neat. If I do retire here, to end it here. So this is where I’m at now.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Of all your previous deployments and stations, which one to you is—was the most influential and significant? Which one means the most to you?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, probably the USS <em>Simpson</em>. Um, that was my first, um, real command. I was a new chief when I got there, and, um, I learned so much on that ship. I had some great people. I had a few people above me that I didn’t think was[sic] great, but still, um, I—I learned a lot of lessons there on how to treat people, on how not to, um, uh, what it takes to run a division on a ship, um, to be that leading chief.</p>
<p>Um, a lot of that lessons learned on that stuff—on that ship, uh—experiences I—I couldn’t have gotten anywhere else, except for being at sea, you know? So, um, I’m very grateful that I, uh, chose to enter[?], and, um—and the lessons learned—you know—good and bad—that—that was just the biggest learning curve for me—was that 3 years, and, um, I was very fortunate to have a couple, um, of chiefs and senior chiefs I still talk to, to this day, that kind of helped mentor me. From, you know, being a new chief, and I feel when I left that command, I was a seasoned chief, and, um, you know, a lot of great, great chiefs helped me along, and—and we had some good officers that really, you know, helped me learn even more. I kind of thought I knew a lot, and then when I got there, I thought I was in over my head, but, um, it was just such a great experience and a learning experience [inaudible]. I’ll—I’ll look fondly on that command.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where you ever in an active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, active warzone? No. Um, we did do, um, boardings, um, outside in the Mediterranean [Sea]. Um, the ships going to and from the Gulf. [inaudible] there’s, um—we did boardings—non-compliance boardings—but I was never in an active warzone though.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Could you talk about the boardings, or no?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, some—some of the boardings, um, [inaudible]—some of them—we did the same thing on—on, uh, my first ship, down off the coast of South America, as well. It’s just, uh, you know, um, looking for contraband. Uh, we go, uh, trying to make contact with the ships. If—if they’re will to stop, great, and let us board, great. If not, for the non-compliance ones, we kind of forced them to stop, and, um—boarding, and I was fortunate to be part of a boarding team on a couple of those, and, uh, whether they are compliant or not, boarding a ship is always nerve-racking, ‘cause you don’t know what to expect, and Of course, you’re looking for contraband and—and, um—and, uh, going through the ship is always kind of nerve-racking, ‘cause you, you know—you don’t know what—there’s so many places to hide on a ship, and, um—so it—it was—it was interesting, to say the least. Um, nerve-racking, but, um, fortunate enough, um, uh—the few, um, kind of situations that happened, I wasn’t involved in those. So I was—I was extremely fortunate, you know? So that’s about that. Nowadays, they don’t do that.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>You mentioned you kept in touch with one of your buddies from the NTC.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is there anybody else you kept in contact with from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I got a couple mentors. Uh, two—two of them have retired from the Navy, but I still keep in contact with them. I touch bases with them, um, if I got a situation I am in and I’m not sure how to handle that, or what to do. Or, uh, if I make a decision on what I’m going to do, I usually call them and run it by them. I—I kind of get their take, um,and—and I’ve made a couple of real good friends along the way that—that I keep in touch with. So I would say—and my dad gave me this advice when I joined the Navy—He told me, um, you know, “Mot everybody’s your friend. You’re going to make a lot of acquaintances, but your—your friends, you’ll keep in touch with.” And so, um, I would say, out of all the sailors I served with, probably about 4 or 5 I keep in touch with.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Well, the, you know—our core values are honor, courage, and commitment, and, um, with honor, it’s just not, you know—I feel honored to wear the uniform, but, uh, it’s—it’s an honor to represent not only the United States, but all those sailors that have served before me, and, uh, especially those chiefs who, uh, have made the Navy strong. Because, you know the saying is “The chiefs are the backbone of the Navy.” And my ultimate goal in the Navy was to make chief, once I decided to make it a career, and obtaining that goal and being a part of the mess is, you know, the big honor, and I just want to live up to the standards that, you know, all the sailors before me have set, you know?</p>
<p>Um, and another characteristic is—is courage, and courage doesn’t mean you’re not scared, you know? Um, being courageous is when you’re unsure, maybe a little scared, but you do—you do the job anyway, and—and being courageous is, you know, sometimes making an unpopular decision, you know to, uh—with some of my junior personnel, you know, I know the decision is not going to be popular—not going to like it, but you gotta make it and—and—and be committed to the—to the decision, and, you know, [inaudible] that goes along with commitment, you know? Um, Not only being the decision-maker, but as somebody making the decision, whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not.</p>
<p>Um, we have this saying in the mess, you know: “Acceptance doesn’t mean agreement.” You don’t have to agree with it, but you’re committed. That’s the way we’re going, so let’s go and you drive your sailors to—to follow along. So, um, the values that the Navy hold dear—honor, courage, and commitment—that’s[sic] the ones I take on and try to live up to, and I’ll tell you this: not only in my professional life, but in my personal life as well. ‘cause I—I’m always mindful that my actions out in the civilian world, um, Can affect my professional world, as well, and I—I don’t want to do anything that would discredit, you know, the Navy, as well as discredit my family.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>So overall, what would you say is the most valuable lesson you learned from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Wow. Um, you—it’s—it’s—I’ve changed so much in my way of thinking, in the Navy. Um, I think the most valuable lesson is being, uh, tolerant of, uh, different points of view, different, um, people, you know? Um, it’s okay to have your own opinion and to state your opinion and have your belief, as long as you’re willing to accept the fact that there’s[sic] people out there that’s[sic] gonna disagree with you and have a different point of view, and, um, that’s one thing [inaudible], uh—uh, where I grew up, um, I kinda had a mindset of a way things should be and my beliefs, but, um, sitting here 21 years later, I’m a totally different person. I think I’m more open and more, uh, subjective to—other people’s, um, either backgrounds or, you know, ways of life, and, you know, the way I look at it—I, you know—we’re all people. We all have a right to our own opinion, our own way of life, so as long as it doesn’t affect me directly, you know, I haven’t put much thought into it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>You said when you returned back to Orlando, you didn’t recognize the base, so—or the area at all. So how would you say the NTC base or the Central Florida region changed since you left?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, from what I remember, um, there—there’s a few landmarks that are here that I remember going to, um, around the base. Church Street Station is still there. Um, there’s a couple of restaurants—still there, but the landscape has changed, you know, to being primarily housing now, and, um, I think the demographics of the population has changed too. Um, I think there’s more of a Hispanic culture here than I remember.</p>
<p>Um, so, um—and this is the—since boot camp, you know, this is—the last six months is the first time I’ve really been here—living here, you know, not just kind of visiting to visit the theme parks and stuff like that. That’s totally different than actually being—excuse me—being a resident here. So, um, I think the demographics has[sic] changed and, you know, that whole area around Lake Baldwin now, you know, just seems to me to be all housing and stuff now, and, uh, there—there was a club—I think it was called Manatees—outside the gate there—that I was looking for to see if to see if it was still there, and, uh, it might be there, but I couldn’t remember my way around, because I didn’t recognize the area. Um, I remember that and, uh, there was a hotel in the area we use to stay at on the weekends, just to get away. It was the Colonial Plaza. I don’t know if it is there or not. Uh, I’ve [inaudible] —I’ve talked to my wife. I was like, you know, “I want to take some time and drive around see if we can find it,” or, you know—so—But, uh, yeah. It’s totally changed.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What do you think the lasting legacy of the NTC Orlando—of is—of the NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I would hope people remembered it was here, you know? And, um, I know the [Central Florida] Navy League has worked hard, uh, to get the—the Lone Sailor [Memorial Project] statue out in Baldwin Park, which, um, that would be a good reminder. Even talking with some of the younger sailors nowadays, uh, when I told them, “Hey. I went to boot camp in Orlando,” they didn’t even know, you know, that Orlando even existed as—as a RTC [Recruit Training Center] or that we had a base down here, Other than where we’re at now. Um, so I—I just hope people remember, you know, that we were here—that we were a big footprint here, at one time, and, uh, I think that Lone Sailor statue would be a lasting memorial, At least to all the sailors, you know, that[sic] served here, and at least we get some kind of recognition that we were here and did something here. So, um, sad that it’s gone, but it is what it is.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What do you—what do you think former Navy personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit the site?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I think just having a statue that, you know—the Lone Sailor Statue just represents a—a lot to sailors, and, uh, seeing that there would be a, you know—hopefully, just a good reminder, uh, of the things that went on, you know, at RTC and NTC, and, uh,it’s funny when—when I got asked to do this—and looking through my book and thinking about, you know, um—you remember all the good times, you know? The bad times—you just forget—kinda forget them, unless somebody brings something up, but, uh, you remember the good times, and hopefully, having a memorial there, you know, when—when the sailors come back to visit and they see that, it will bring back the good memories of—of that, and the positives that they experienced there.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Before we finish I want you to fill in the—fil in the blank for me.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>NTC Orlando means what to me.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>[<em>sighs</em>] I tell you: NTC Orlando means a new beginning for me. Um, because I was there at, uh, RTC and NTC, where I got the first taste of the world and experience the world on my own, not in a family environment or setting, and, uh, I had to rely upon myself, you know, to get things done or to be more responsible. Um, I—I had to answer to a higher authority for my actions. So it was a total new beginning for me, and, um, looking back, I think I made the right choice for myself, ‘cause I couldn’t, um—I couldn’t imagine myself doing anything else, and—and, um—and having that experience there and getting to experience life, uh, on my own being, able to make my own decisions and do things, you know, um—that’s, uh—that’s where it all started for me. Right there.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is there anything I haven’t asked you about or anything else you would like to talk about, sir?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>You know, I—I can’t think of anything. Um, not at the moment. No.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Thank you, Senior Chief Etchison, for taking your time to conduct this interview for us. We appreciate your service and we look forward to—hopefully to this going forward to become part of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, thank you for—for inviting me, and, uh, service is a pleasure. So it’s my pleasure to serve—serve the United States and to be able to serve its great people. So, um, I appreciate your “thank you,” but it—it’s—it’s a pleasure and it’s an honor to be able to do this. So, um, thank you for inviting me.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: 1993.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: 1993.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Global War on Terror (GWOT).</p>
</div>
</div>
advanced training
Anderson, Indiana
Baldwin Park
basic training
Bill Clinton
Blythe, William Jefferson III
boot camp
boot camps
Central Florida Navy League
Chad Eric Joyner
Chad Etchison
Colonial Plaza
Command Master Chief
Command Senior Chief
Community Veterans History Project
Conner
contraband
CVHP
cycling
Dam Neck, Virginia
Des Moines, Iowa
Electronics Technician School
electronics technicians
enlistment
ET
Fleet Combat Training Center
Global War on Terror
graduation
GWOT
Jacksonville
Joint Service Commendation Medal
Jonesboro, Georgia
Lake Baldwin
Lana Etchison
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Manatees
marching
Mark Etchison
Mayport
McDonald's
memorials
military training
NACC
Naval Expeditionary Combat Command Operations Force Center
Naval Station Mayport
Naval Training Center Orlando
Naval Training Center San Diego
Navy Achievement Medal
Navy Commendation Medal
Navy League
Navy Operational Support Center
Navy Operations Force Center
Navy Senior Enlisted Academy
NECC
NOSC
NS Mayport
NTC Orlando
NTC San Diego
Operation Active Endeavor
orlando
Presidential Service Badge
rain parties
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
RTC Orlando
sailors
San Diego, California
Secret Service
Senior Chief
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Senior Enlisted Advisor
The Grinder
Tim Slewroo
Tom Johnson
U.S. Navy
U.S. Secret Service
United Service Organization
USO
USS Blue Jacket
USS John A. Moore
USS Simpson
USS Wadsworth
USSS
veterans
volleyball
WHCA
White House Communications Agency
William Jefferson Blythe III
William Jefferson Clinton
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e4b7f6422abac4d4b5353edbed6399c7.pdf
26c6287bc13290321f910fbed6b0c442
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Curt Sawyer
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sawyer
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Curt Sawyer (b. 1954), who served in the U.S. Army from 1986 to 1994. Sawyer was born in San Francisco, California, on May 1, 1965, but grew up in Tennessee. While living in Fort Myers, Florida, in 1986, Sawyer joined the Army. During his service, he participated in training exercises with the French Foreign Legion in Corsica and served at Guard Post Ouellette in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) between North Korea and South Korea. Sawyer achieved the rank of First Lieutenant and received the Expert Infantryman Badge. He was also a graduate of the Army Ranger School, Army Airborne School, Army Air Assault School, and Army Rappelling School.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Robin Dunn at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include attending the United States Military Academy at West Point, Airborne School and Air Assault School, serving in South Korea, the 1st Ranger Regiment, meeting his wife, his post-Army life, and training with the French Foreign Legion.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:40 Background<br />0:01:28 Enlistment<br />0:03:33 United States Military Academy at West Point<br />0:05:53 Army assignments <br />0:07:22 South Korea<br />0:10:52 Airborne School and Air Assault School<br />0:12:38 Rest and recuperation in South Korea<br />0:14:35 Savannah, Georgia <br />0:18:35 1st Ranger Regiment<br />0:20:33 Breakout of the Persian Gulf War<br />0:22:15 Wife<br />0:28:07 Post-military life<br />0:30:04 Training with the French Foreign Legion<br />0:34:44 Staying in touch with friends from the military <br />0:36:03 Impact of Army on life<br />0:37:38 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Curt Sawyer. Interview conducted by Robin Dunn at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>. Interviewed by Robin Dunn, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016000, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
20-page digital transcript of original 39-minute and 53-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>. Interviewed by Robin Dunn, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016000, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
United States Military Academy at West Point, West Point, New York
Fort Benning, Georgia
Guard Post Ouellete, Demilitarized Zone, South Korea
Itaewon, Yongsan-gu, Seoul, South Korea
Eglin Air Force Base, Okaloosa County, Florida
Savannah, Georgia
Corsica, France
Creator
Sawyer, Curt
Dunn, Robin
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
342 MB
218 KB
Medium
39-minute and 53-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Robin Dunn and Curt Sawyer.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Kim, Kwi-Gon. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/857709227" target="_blank"><em>The Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) of Korea: Protection, Conservation and Restoration of a Unique Ecosystem</em></a>. 2013.
Si-woo, Lee, and Myung-Hee Kim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/754765257" target="_blank"><em>Life on the edge of the DMZ</em></a>. Folkestone: Global Oriental, 2007.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Curtis Sawyer, Associate Vice President of Administrative Affairs at the University of Central Florida, who served in the United States Army for eight years, achieving 1<sup>st</sup> Lieutenant as his highest rank. My name is Robin Dunn. We are interviewing Mr. Sawyer as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida. Good morning, Mr. Sawyer. How are you?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Good morning, Robin.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I’m doing fine. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Alright. We’re going to start with some easy questions. Um, when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[May 1<sup>st</sup>,] 1965.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>San Francisco, California.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer <br /></strong>Hm, my father originally was a college English professor, and then he switched careers about midcareer and went into real estate, and that’s what—so those were his two primary careers. My mother was homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And did you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I have one older sister.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>She’s three years older. Her name is Dojuan [Sawyer].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Dojuan?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn <br /></strong>And, um, what is—did she have any military history, as well? Did she enlist in…</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No, her husband did. He was enlisted man in the 82<sup>nd</sup> Airborne [Division] and he used to jump out of airplanes for a living. So he and I had quite, uh—a little bit of a common background.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And when did you enlist in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, I went in in [June 30,] 1986.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And what made you enlist into the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, I actually went in as an officer, and so, um, it really wasn’t something that I had thought about, when I was a kid growing up in the country in Tennessee. Um, I always really liked playing war games, and, um—so my little toy soldiers, and, um, tanks, and—and I was just set up these elaborate massive battles, and that’s what they [inaudible], and then I’d go outside and whittled out swords and—And, um, play Army, but that was really the extent of what I thought I would do with that desire to do military stuff.</p>
<p>When I was living in Fort Myers[, Florida] in 1986, our [U.S.] senator,<a title="">[1]</a> who, at the time, senator was Senator<a title="">[2]</a> Connie Mack,<a title="">[3]</a> sent out a new letter to us and my dad saw it and it was a little blurb that said, “Hey. Anybody interested in applying to a service aca—academy, um, here’s what you do.” And so, um, my dad said, “Hey, Curt. You should try to do this. You will never get accepted, because you don’t know anybody political, but you can just go ahead and do it for the experience.” and so I did. I went through the process, I interviewed with the co—committee, I did all the PT [physical training] tests, I did the medical exams, I finished my grades, I showed all the stuff that I had done, and then I forgot about it, and, um, I had gone to community college, as well, like what you did. Edison Community College. Now it’s [Florida] SouthWest[ern] State College. and I was going to graduate from there and then I was either going to go to the University of Florida or Florida State [University], whichever school had the higher ratio of females to males.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>That was my criteria for de—deciding. and so one day, in the mail, came this official looking binder, and, um—and I opened it up, and I looked at it, and it said, um, “The United States Military Academy is pleased to offer you a letter of-of ac—of, uh—of acceptance to the class of 1986”—the class of ‘90—“at West Point.” So that’s how I started my military career.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm, and so you went to West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I did.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay. So how was West Point? What was your experience at West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, you know, um, it was something that I—I did not really prepare for. When I got there, um, a lot of my classmates had already prepared they knew what they were up—so There’s a lot of reading, a lot of memory work you have to do. It’s called “bugle notes.” it’s that thick. You memorize it all: insignia, rank, history, sayings, important figures that graduated—all that stuff. Um, they knew all that stuff, they knew how to shine their shoes and their boots, and they knew how to do a proper salute, and they knew—and I knew nothing about that. So it took me a while to figure that all out, and, um—but once I did it went well enough. Um, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Is there anything, um, memorable about West Point? Do you have any, like, experiences that you enjoyed there?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, I think every single minute of my four years there is seared into my memory. Um, so it—I’m very proud, um, of my West point experience. I’m glad I went. At the time, it was a little bit—I’ve always been a little bit of, um—of an independent type. Um, kinda a little bit of a free thinker. Not in a really kind of a weird or aggressive way, but just always been independent-minded, and that’s not what West point is about. So, um, it’s been around since [March 16,] 1802, and so there’s a history, and there’s a structure, and there’s a way of doing things, and you either comply with it and you do well, or if you don’t, then you really kind of—you just don’t make it. So, um—so once I kinda came to grips with that, um, I did well.</p>
<p>I, you know—the experiences were very rich. The classmates, which[sic] I still keep in contact with, um, the things I did, the training that I did. During the summers, we really wouldn’t have summers off in military training for vacation. We would go on military training. So I went to Air Assault School<a title="">[4]</a> and I got my Air Assault wings [Badge], went to Airborne School and did that, went to Germany for six weeks, and so just a lot of kind of—life at a hundred miles an hours.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And what did you do after West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, with West Point comes, um, a commitment—a military commitment in the Army, and so, um, I went into the Army and did that for four and a half years. I was stationed at—at different places and did different things. Do—do you want me to share that with you?</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Where—where were you stationed?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay. So once I graduated from West Point, um, my parents bought me a trip to, um, Cancún[, Quintana Roo, Mexico] with a buddy, and, um, so we did that to kind of celebrate the four years of hard work, which is where I met my wife, Uh, by—By the way. She was my travel agent. I’ll tell that story a little bit later.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um—and so then after that, I went to the Officer Basic Corps in Fort Benning, Georgia, and then I went to Ranger School, um, and then, um—and then my first duty assignment was in [South] Korea, and, um, did Korea for a while, had a regular line. It’s called a “line platoon,” which is a platoon of—in infantrymen, at the time, and then, um, there I took over—it’s called a “scout platoon,” which is a smaller unit—but basically we would go out and were kinda the eyes and ears of the overall battalion, and, um, once I left Korea, then I came back to the United States and went to Savannah, Georgia, and I served with the 75<sup>th</sup> Ranger [Regiment] battalion. So the first—first Ranger battalion in Savannah, Georgia, and did that for a while, and then I wrapped up my service.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn <br /></strong>Now, you said you went to Korea. Um, what—what was it like going to Korea? What were your first experiences and thoughts, while you were in Korea?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, you know, it was kind of a surprise that I even went to Korea. The way West point does it is that everything you do, um, counts against your rank, and so there is roughly 1,000 of us that entered, um, our plebe year, and so roughly 900 graduated. and so what they do—so every PT, every—every test that you take, every PT test you take, every academic grade you get, every sport that you play, every demerit that you get, everything goes into this basically a formula, and you’re rank-ordered from number one all the way down to the bottom. So you always know where you stand, in terms of the rest of your classmates, and so, what you do then, is you pick the branch that you want to go, and generally most folks get that they want. I always wanted to go infantry, and then what happens is, at some point in time, several couple month before we graduated, they take you into an auditorium, and we’re all in there, and your names are all—all 900—and then all of the available slots that are available worldwide, in terms of duty stations, right? And they’re all there. They’re all on the board. So the number one person…</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Who, in my class, was a guy by the name of Ed Hoyt, was just this—photographic memory—he is the first choice. So the—the best slots always go first. Vicenza[, Veneto], Italy, always goes first, Hawaii goes, Fort Ord, California, always go first. All the cool place go, and then they work down the list.</p>
<p>So I was about mid-pack. I was like around 450 or so, and I had planned—I was dating this girl, and we was all serious, and it was love and all that sort of thing, and so we had agreed that we were going to—that I was going to go to Fort Lewis, Washington. I was going to stay stateside, and, um, we were going to continue the relationship. and so when it can time, when they called my name, Cadet Curt Sawyer, I stood up and fully expected to say, “Fort Lewis, Washington,” but what came out of my mouth was “the Republic of Korea.” and honest to goodness, [inaudible] I’m like—and my friends all looked at me, and I looked at them, and I’m like, “What have I done?” And, um—and that’s where I went, and so, um, the relationship ended pretty quickly thereafter, and, um, I went to Korea.</p>
<p>So Korea was cool, just because, um, back then, it was fairly tense still. There’s still no formal treaty ending the [Korean] War between North Korea and South Korea. So it—it—it could be tense on the Demilitarized Zone—the DMZ, and, um, so I spent quite a bit of time on the DMZ, with—with the, eh—there—there’s a couple of guard posts that are right there. One of them is Guard Post Ouellette, and it’s actually surrounded on three sides by North Korea. So it kinda jets out and, um, it’s pretty tense, and we would do patrols, and—and look for the North Koreans, and they would look for us, and that sorta of thing.</p>
<p>So I wasn’t married. I didn’t have, um, commitments, and so it was a time that I really dove into my craft of learning to be an Army officer, and doing as well as I could. Um, there were several of my classmates that[sic] I went to West Point with, and I went to Airborne School, and I went to Ranger School—they were over there, and so we were pretty close, and we were just we really, really trained hard, and—And, um—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and you said you went to Airborne and…</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Air Assault.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Air Assault School. Do you want to talk about those? And how those experiences helped you?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, those are kinda expected. Those are schools that are kinda expected, um, as an Army infantry officer, um, especially someone that wants to go to, um, Ranger School, and then serve in a Ranger battalion. you—you really—it’s hard to be in a Ranger battalion and not have—be airborne qualified, because of a lot of what Rangers do is you parachute in and do your mission, and so it’s just one of those things, and Airborne School is pretty straightforward. I went to it my junior year. They call it a “cow” at West Point. Your junior year, you’re—you’re a cow. Yeah. It goes: plebe, and then yearly, and then cow, and then firstie, right? And so, um, straightforward. You do five jumps, and then you get your Airborne wings, and you put it on, you wear them, you walk around like somebody special, because you—you jumped out an airplane five times.</p>
<p>So it was cool. It was hot, and then Air Assault School is where you—you—basically, you repel out of helicopters, and, um, it’s—it’s pretty straightforward. It actually was a hard course—not the physical part. It’s just you had to learn how to—to rig items, Jeeps, equipment, and that sorta thing, in order to be able to transport them, and so it’s pretty technical, and that was kinda hard. But, um, and that as in Fort Kentu—um, that was in, um—I forget the name—and in Kentucky. That was really hot. Everything I did, all the classes, or courses, were in the middle of the summer, it felt like. So they were good. It was good training. It helped me in my craft as an Army officer.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay. Um, now, while you’re in Korea—we’re gonna go back to Korea—um, what did you do when you weren’t working? What was your, like, R&R [rest and recuperation], while in Korea?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Um, yeah, you know, there wasn’t that much time that we were off, um, because we were, um, either at the home base, um, getting ready to go back to the DMZ or, um—or we were recovering from out last mission to the DMZ, or, um, we were actually at the DMZ—the Demilitarized Zone, and what that is: it’s basically a line that—the 45<sup>th</sup> Parallel [North] that divides North and South Korea.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um, the few times that we—the times that we had off, we would go into the city of Seoul[, South Korea]. So we learned how to take the train and—and the sub—and, uh, the subway—and go into Seoul, and there’s a little place called Itaewon, which is were a lot of us would go. Um, I can’t tell you too much about it, because it was one of—it was kind of a younger, wilder, um, time that was a little bit of a blur.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>That’s okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]I will tell you this: they have this stuff “soju,” right? Which is—it’s kinda like our white lightning. It’s—it’s, um—really, really, powerful, clear alcohol. And so you can’t drink it straight, ‘cause it’ll kill ya, I mean, it’s like drinkin’ gasoline. So [<em>laughs</em>] whatcha do though is you is mix it with, um, different kinds of Kool-Aids [<em>laughs</em>], and honest to goodness—and so, um, you know—cherry Kool-Aid, or grape Kool-Aid, or whatev—and so it tastes like Kool-Aid. You can’t taste the—the booze in it. So you drink a couple of those, and you just really kind of, you know, be all you can be as a young, American soldier in a foreign country.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And how long were you in Korea for?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>A year.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and when you came back, you said you went to Savannah, Georgia?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>That, um—so I was in Korea And, um—and so the scout platoon became available, so I got selected to do that, which is—which is kinda of an honor, because, um—it just is. Um, ‘cause there is just one scout platoon in a battalion, and, um, and the thing about scouts is, um, you—you have to go out, and you have to be very tactical, you have to be very—you cannot be seen, Right? So you kind of—you integrate.</p>
<p>Well, we had a colonel that was, um—came from the old guard in Washington, D.C, and those are the ones—the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers. So they walk, and all the pomp and the ceremony, and all that sorta thing. Well, that stuff is great, but it doesn’t really work when you’re out in the field, you know? There it’s more about performance, more—it—more about getting the bad guy before the bad guy get you, and so I didn’t wear full uniform that—that he wanted. He thought I should.</p>
<p>For example, I would take my helmet off. When you’re out in the woods, you know, it’s really kinda hard to hear, and—and, um, be stealthy and crafty when you have this big ol’ thing on your head that’s covering your ears. So I’d take that off, and I would have the boys put—called “watch caps” or “balaclavas.” Well, he caught wind of that, and really, really, um, really, kinda hit the roof, and was determined that he was just going to kinda ruin my military career off of that, and, uh, the thing about him though: he was West Point, so he knew I was a West Point, and he said, “Well, let me give this,” you know—‘cause a lot of folks were really kinda rooting for me saying, “No. this guy is little bit kinda on the wild side maybe, but he’s really, really good at what he does, and so give him a chance.”</p>
<p>So what he did is like, “Okay, Lieutenant Sawyer. I’m gonna go on a mission with you, alright? And I’m gonna see if you’re as good as what people are sayin’.” And so, um, so he showed up and—and, of course, we have all our equipment, you know? For example, I would carry two radios, in order to communicate with higher headquarters, plus also my—my soldiers that[sic] were all spread out all over kind of Korea.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um, so between all that equipment, it’s maybe 70-80 pounds of weight, and so he showed up with just his little—this kind of thing, with his water and his radio, and said, “Okay, Lieutenant Sawyer. Let’s go,” and I’m like “Sir, where’s—where’s all your equipment?” And he’s like, “I got my Jeep tailing me, so, um, don’t worry about me. You just show me what ya got.” So, um—so I’m like, “Okay.”</p>
<p>So I— told my platoon sergeant “Alright. Sergeant Iver[sp]. Get ready. Um, we’re gonna climb the tallest mountain I can find,” and, um— and so we did, and, um, a lot—a lot of it was climbing on our hands and knees, and it took most of the day to climb the mountain, and we got to the top, and then we set up camp, and, um—and then I deployed all my different scouts, and—and, um—and basically, we did such a good job that the colonel changed his mind, and, um—and so therefore, um—but then the next continuation of that is that the Rangers came recruiting to Korea, and, um, all my friends were like, “Rangers. That’s—that’s the pinnacle. We wanna go. Um, we wanna be a Ranger.” so, like, “Let’s go, Curt.” and I’m like, “No. I have only about a month left in Korea and I already have orders.” I’m gonna go to Fort Smith, Arkansas, with a—it’s called a “Joint Readiness Training Center”—the JRTC. I’m fine with that. I’ve come to grips with that. I’m kinda looking forward to it. I’m not really much interested in this Rangering stuff, and so they’re like, “Well, at least come along with us.” And, um, so I went with them, and I interviewed with the Rangers, and then, um, eh, strangely enough, I was the only one that—that was accepted, and was offered, um, an invitation to join the Rangers, and so once that happened, I thought, <em>Okay. Well, I guess this is too good </em><em>an offer to refuse, and </em>so I ended up going to Savannah with the 1<sup>st</sup> Ranger battalion.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and what was your job in the 1<sup>st</sup> Ranger battalion. What was—what did you do exactly?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, yeah. Uh, Rangers are—are part of [United States Army] Special Operations [Command], and so my job was a platoon leader to lead, and—and their big platoons, so it’s roughly 55, um—55 men, and, um, our job was different things: to raids, to do ambushes. We would—we would parachute in most of the time and—and do our—do our mission, and then get extracted. um, sometimes, it would be fast strobing—it’s called “fast strobing,” where you have a helicopter that comes in, and then basically, you jump out, grab the rope, and—and you slide down, and jump out of the way, and the helicopter keeps moving like this, so you go, and you kinda just go, and you assemble and move off.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Um, so ambushes, raids. Um, a big part of it was, um, airfield seizures—airfield—airfield takes downs, which is actually pretty cool, ‘cause we had a special vehicles, that, um—special vehicles Land Rovers, that were made just for the Rangers, that would fit into the airplanes. So the [Lockheed] C-130s [Hercules] and the [Lockheed] C-141s [Starlifter] [<em>sniffs</em>]. Um it—it’s called “Jeeps” and “bikes.”</p>
<p>So, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] it’s pretty cool. So you’d drop the ramp of the—of the aircraft, and then you’d drive your Jeeps up there, and we also had dirt bikes, and, um, our job was, um, once other members of the platoon would go in—jump in, and secure the airfield, make sure there was no debris on the runway—We would come in, drop the ramps, disembark, drive off, and then establish blocking positions, so that the enemy could not retake the—the airfield. So different things. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And, um, uh, did you see any combat at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No, I did not. When I was in Korea—Korea—since Korea has just kind of a—kind of a special mission—because we’re at peace, but we’re not really—um, I did not go to the First, um, Iraq War.<a title="">[5]</a></p>
<p>When I was in Ranger School, um—I remember in January of ’91, we were doing a patrol at Eglin Air Force Base, and so we had just jumped into our—our rubber boats, called “Zodiacs” or “RB-15s,” and we were doing a mission. It was the last mission of that phase of Ranger School, and we were all just really tired and really weak, and, we just wanted to be kinda done with it—just done with it, and, um, course, it’s night. All the—all the missions you do in the military are—are at night, um, and so we had just pushed off, and we were just about to start rowing, and then this big ol’ colonel—this big ol’ colonel that[sic] I have never seen before—he must have of weighed 250 pounds—came running and jumped into our—our boat, and then, we—we could see just enough in the moonlight that he looked like he had some rank that kinda outranked us, or we were a little bit different, and he was listening to a radio, and that’s when we had first started bombing. That’s when we first went into Iraq, and he was listening to it and said, “Alright, Rangers. This is for real now. We’re goin’ to war. Every single one of you.” you know, gave some colorful adjectives, um, “Will be over there, um, inside of two months. So you better that this seriously,” which we already were, But, um—and so we were momentarily kinda pumped, you know, because when you’re in the military and that sorta thing that we’re doing, you kind of—you wanna go into combat, you want go where the danger is, but then after that, we were mostly worried about this big ol’ colonel was just gonna make our jobs harder to row, and—and, so, um, that’s what we’re mostly worried about.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, did you stay in touch with your family, while you were over there?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, that gets in the story of my wife. So do you wanna hear about this? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I won’t tell you all the details.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>But, um—so when I graduated from West Point, my parents sent my best friend and I to a trip to Cancún, and so, um, we had to go to a travel agent. My mother, for some reason or another, got so upset with our normal travel agent. So we said, “We’re just not gonna go to her anymore. We’re gonna go fine a different travel agent.”</p>
<p>So back then you didn’t really have the Internet. You couldn’t pull up your—your PDA and see where the—we just went driving, and so we saw a “travel agent,” and Mom said “That’s it. That’s the one.” [<em>sniffs</em>] And so we walk in there, and there was this really, really pretty girl with really, deep green eyes, and I’m like, <em>Hello.</em> I didn’t say that.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I was thinking that, right? And, um, so we sat down, and she arranged it, and I’m looking at her, and I’m thinking <em>Wow</em>, you know? Um, I—I—I think, um—and you can kinda tell, she kinda was mildly intrigued with me—not overwhelmed—but mildly, and so, um—and so when I get back from Cancún, I’m gonna come back and I’m gonna ask this—this lady out, Right? And so then when I came back, um, I—I remembered her, and I had every intention, and then I end up meeting this other girl, who actually was a cop in Miami[, Florida], who was also a lawyer, but she put the law thing on the side, and she wanted to work a cop in one of the most dangerous areas of Fort Lauderdale[, Florida], and so I got kinda sidetracked with that nonsense for about five months, until was finally able to get outta that—get out of that. That was really not a good relationship.</p>
<p>So then I got my orders to go to Korea, right? And, um—so I had to fly commercial, so I went back to the travel agent, and then when I walked in, I’m like <em>Hello.</em> I—I kinda, like, forgotten [<em>laughs</em>] all about her, but then when I saw those pretty green eyes, I[sic] like, <em>Whoa</em>, you know? And it was a mess. I was young, right? We were all young, and, um—and so then, I ask her out, and, um, so we dated for a week, and then I went to Korea, and the way Korea is, back then, you really don’t come back, and there really wasn’t a whole lot of e-mail back then. Um, so, we wrote. We hand wrote letters, back and forth, and she saved every single of them. She still has them. We’ve been married 22 years. She saved every single one of ‘em, and I was—and I was faithful to her, um, until about eight months through, and then—and I know this sounds funny—I mean, [inaudible— I met the colonel’s daughter. Literally, I met the colonel’s daughter, and, um, [<em>laughs</em>] and so, um, started dating her, and so I wrote Lisa [Sawyer]—my Lisa—a “Dear Lisa” letter, you—you know? And bought a 12-pack, and got liquored up, and wrote it, and she saved that doggone letter</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And she still has that doggone letter. So alright—and anyways, so I’m like, “Sorry. Met the colonel’s daughter. It’s been nice knowing ya.” we only dated for a week. What’s the big deal, right? And, um [<em>sniffs</em>]—and that was that. So the colonel’s daughter came back—she was in Texas. I came back, and, um, thought everything was good, right? Unbeknownst to me, while I was I Korea, my parents took Lisa up under their wings, and really—they really like her, and so they stated to take her to church with them, and—and really kind of mentored her, and developed this close relationship.</p>
<p>So when I got back I said, um, “Dad and Mom,” uh, you know, “Lisa and I are no longer together.” “Well, what happened?” So I explained it all, and they’re like, “Well, that’s no good.” um, “That’s not the way to do it. We’re not happy with—with that, but that’s your decision, but you do not do that via a letter.” I’m like, “Alright. I’ll call her.” and they’re— “Nope. You gotta go see her and tell her face to face that you’re sorry.” And, um, and but you’re formally— I’m formally ending the relationship. They’re pretty old school. Um, I respect that now. At the time I was like, <em>Ugh</em>.</p>
<p>So I call Lisa up, and said “Lisa, this is Curt. Um, I—I wanna come see you.” She hung up on me. So I went back to my parents, and said, “Hey, I’m off the hook. She doesn’t wanna talk to me.” They’re like, “No, no, no.” [<em>laughs</em>]. “You’re a Ranger. It doesn’t work that well. Figure out a way.” So I called her back, said “Lisa,” you know, “The way my parents are. They won’t get off my back, until I come see you. Can I come see you? Just, eh, five minutes. Don’t even have to walk in the door. Just need to see you, check the block, then my parents are off my back. Help me out.” She was like, “Okay. Come over.”</p>
<p>So I went over to see her. She opened out, uh—the door, and I’m like, <em>Hello</em>, you know? The—I know, and, um, she ended up inviting me in. so, um—and so the long story short of it is: um, I broke it off with the colonel’s daughter, and then Lisa and I started dating again, and we got married six months later, and, um, so even with all that nonsense of how that started out, um, eh, she’s just been a blessing, and I’ve been absolutely faithful to her for 22 years, and she’s just more than I deserve. So that was kinda that.</p>
<p>Then the colonel’s daughter, right? So she was flying into Orlando, but flying out of Fort Myers. So I still had to go pick her up, and she was pissed at me. She was pissed. So I went to pick her up, didn’t speak a word for like three-quarters of the trip, and then the floodgate’s going, “How could you do this?” I mean, and, uh, I’m like, “What can I say? I’m sorry. I know I—it’s on me,” you know? So then, I put her on the plane and—and that was it. No more drama.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Okay. Um, what did you do when you—after, with your wife and—meeting her—what did you do after coming home from Korea and after you got out of the service? Like, what did you do afterwards?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, when I came back—so I did the Rangering thing for a while in Savannah, and, um, deployed quite a bit. Did a lot of, um—did a lot of trainings—did a lot of training. Really enjoyed it, really enjoyed the Rangers, and really enjoyed the Army. Um, When I was at West Point—even though I really appreciated my West Point experience and I’m very proud of it, very proud of the mission it has, and what—the impact it continues to have—but I said, <em>You know, if the Army is anything like West Point, then I want nothing to do with it. I’m just gonna do my time, and I’m going to get </em>out, and, um, the Army was completely different from the West Point, for the most part, and, uh, then I got out, um, from West Point into the Army, I—I tried all the stuff that I was taught. You know, it’s gotta be formal and—and all this sorta thing, and they laughed at me. Like, “Get over yourself, Lieutenant. That’s just not the way it works.” Well, I’m like, “Okay. How does it work?” “Just be yourself, just lead the men, just lead, alright?” I’m like, “Oh, okay. Well, that’s great.” so I scrapped all this stuff. It—it really wasn’t scrapping all the stuff, but it was truly being a leader and taking charge, and, um—so yeah, um, therefore, I really, really, um, really enjoyed the military. Um, really enjoyed what the Rangers did and what they stood for.</p>
<p>Um, Lisa and I got married while I was still in the military, and then um, we wanted to start a family and that sorta thing. So, um, decided to get out, and then after that, went into the, um—the private sector. Worked for three Fortune 500 companies for 14 years, before I came to UCF.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Now, you really seemed to enjoy the Army. What was your most memorable experience? Or something you really enjoyed in it? Like, what was—like maybe a good story, or hanging out with your friends? What was something you really, really enjoyed?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, hm.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>It can be multiple. It doesn’t just have to be one.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, you know, I—I really, um—when I was with the Rangers, um, we de—we went and, um, trained with the French Foreign Legion, um, in Corsica, France. So, um, three companies of the, um—of the batta—um, three platoons of the company went to Belgium, and they did their training, and my platoon was selected to go and train with the Legionnaires, and, um, that was really cool, because not many military—not many American units are able to do that—to lay claim to training with the French Foreign Legion, which, when you’re in military circle, that’s—they’re well-known. They’re pretty hardcore. Um, Rangers—we considered ourselves hardcore, so it’s, —it was kinda cool for two hardcore entities to get together and train together.</p>
<p>They trained differently from us. Um, by that, I’ll give an example. We were running a live fire, and, um—in France—and kinda showing them American tactics, and right in the middle of that—American tactics—the—the military officers are very much involved in that—coordinating, that sorta thing. My counterpart—my French counterpart pulled me off the side and said, “Hey, Curt,” you know? He didn’t call me Curt. It was Lieutenant Sawyer. “We gotta go over here and do lunch.” I’m like, “What is that?” [<em>laughs</em>]. “What do you have in the basket?” And he pulled out a loaf of bread, and he pulled out some cheese, and he pulled out a bottle out a bottle of wine/ and he was kinda just wanting to sit up on that p—hillside and just kinda watch it all, and I’m like, “Thank you for the offer, but I can’t do that. I got live bullets flying down range, and it’s a very dangerous situation, and I need to be…” so he—he was—was just different tactics, and the other thing I would say that’s kinda interesting is that we—we actually parachuted with them, you know? They had these old planes, and we looked at the plane—My Rangers all looked at the plane, and were, “We’re gonna jump out of that thing?” It’s called a [Transall] “C-160.” It looked old. It was old, and, um—and they were like, “Yup, and we were like, “Okay,” you know? And so we waited, and we sat there on the tarmac out on the airfield, and we waited and we waited, and we’re like, “Where are the pilots?” and they’re like, “They’re still, um, having lunch.” and so they were inside having lunch, and drinking wine, and kinda getting half crocked. So when they came out, they were kinda a staggering a little bit, and, um, I’m like, “We’re not gonna jump with these guys. It’s—it’s a little bit…”</p>
<p>Plus, there’s a thunderstorm coming, the wind was picking up. When you—when you jump out of airplanes, the one thing you don’t want to do it jump out when the wind is blowing too hard, because you can’t control were you land, and, um—and basically they said, “Well, I thought Americans were tough,” you know? “You gonna let a—a little wind, a little wine kinda…” so, of course, we had to, and so we went up and—and we jumped, and, um, it was really, really windy. What they do is they throw a—it’s called a “dummy.” Um, it’s—it’s kind of, you know—it’s a stuffed—supposed to simulate a—a man—a grown man, and they throw it out, and then, wherever it goes, they adjust where the jumpers go out, and generally, you—the best case scenario: you throw the dummy out and the dummy just goes straight down. This time, he threw the dummy and the dummy went <em>wick</em> with the wind, and we’re like, “Whoa.” And so we jumped, and, um—and—and the wind is just taking us haywire, and, um, outside the compound—the compound was rimmed with—with [inaudible] or wire, and all that sorta thing, and, um—and as we’re going down and—and thinking, <em>Well, this is gonna really kinda be painful</em>, I saw my platoon sergeant just go <em>fwoomp</em>. He just was dropping like a rock, and I’m like, <em>Whoa. What’s going on with that?</em> And so I looked at him, and he figured out a way to really kinda make his parachute drop a lot faster. Basically, pulled his risers down, put his feet in ‘em, pushed them down, and it made him just go down. So I’m like, <em>Let me try that</em>. So I did it. So he and I were the only ones to land kinda where we were supposed to, and all the rest of the boys landed in the wire, or on the roofs, and on trees, and all that, and it took us the rest of the day to clean us all up, but nobody got hurt, and, um—so yeah. Things like that. Just kind of hardcore training, and, um, strong relationships, and, um, just standing ready to kinda serve our country, whenever we were called.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And you said you made a lot of friends at West Point. Um, do you stay in contact with people from West Point? Or any people from the Rangers, as well?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer <br /></strong>Yeah, I do still. Some, you know—over—over the course of 20 years, you know, things drift, people change. That’s one things we really noticed is that we’ve changed. My wife and I really changed, and so, um, what used to interest us, just in terms of likes and—and [inaudible] and that sort of thing, they really—not so much anymore, so—inevitably too, but, yes, we have kept in touch with some of my classmates. Some of them are still in. some of them are now getting to the point they’re—they’re, um, becoming generals, brigadier generals—which is kinda cool, ‘cause, you know, we remember each other from just doing spirit missions at West Point, and getting hazed, and just doing silly things, and getting trouble over it, and that’s[sic] the memories a lot of us have, and now they’re—they’re national leaders, you know? A lot of my classmates have gone on and are part of the NSA [National Security Agency], and CIA [Central Intelligence Agency], and FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation], and—and, um, into politics, and—and really had done well for themselves. So, yeah. It’s kinda cool to keep up with them. Um, Facebook, obviously, we see a lot. A lot of my classmates have children that are now at West Point, so, um—so, yeah. It’s kinda cool.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, has[sic] your experiences in the Army impacted your life?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Sure. Um, inevitably. One: it was just, uh—I think with anybody that that’s in, it’s just a special time. It’s just a really special time, because you’re so focused. One: you—I don’t think you will find anybody—you will—it will—rarely, that you will find someone that doesn’t really, really strongly believe in the mission of what we did, and so a lot of times, what we do—we go into the business world, we go in the corporate world, we—we get jobs in that sorta thing, and say, “Well, what’s your mission? What is your purpose?” and well, if you’re in the corporate world, it is to make somebody else money. It’s to make money. So you—you put that and you stack that against serving and honoring and protecting my country. Well, it’s kinda hard to compare with that. So when you put that—people strongly believe in that—then everything has a greater sense of urgency, just in terms of training, and—and awareness, and wanting to—to hone your craft, In order to be able to stand ready, when you’re called</p>
<p>So, yeah. It’s just kind of a special time, and, um—and certainly, some of the characters—the—the discipline—discipline, and the focus, and, you know—and the—the mentality that you’ll never give up, ‘til you accomplished the mission, you know? The mission manifests itself in many different ways, depending on what you do, but still, at the end of the day, still an objective or a mission, and the military just teaches you how to be creative in how you’re going to figure out how to do it.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>So that makes sense?</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yes, yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, well, um, we are getting to the end. So, um, would you advise anyone else, um, today to enlist? Since you enlisted, would you advise anybody else who would like to enlist that it’s a good thing, a bad thing?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, I think it’s a great thing. You know, there’s[sic] two different ways about going about it. One is through the officer, um—through the officer channel. The other is through enlisted, you know? And so each have its attractiveness for—depending on what people’s goals are.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>You know? So I always wanted to do the officer thing, just because I wanted—I wanna be a leader, you know? You—you’re either a leader, or you’re kinda not. So, if you’re a leader, you kinda wanna be right in the middle of things, and—and you have more impact as an officer, generally. Um, um, I—I know as an NCO—a non-commissioned officer—you can still have that, but it takes longer to get that so, but certainly, as enlisted, I think that’s a very noble profession. Um, and it certainly helps with the GI Bill, and benefits, [U.S. Department of] VA [Veterans Affairs] care. A lot of folks don’t think about that from an early age.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>But once you serve in the military, you have access to VA—Veterans Administration care the rest of your life, and, um, that’s kinda a bid deal, and a lot of the other benefits that come along with it. So that’s not the primary reason why you should join, but certainty, I think it’s part of the consideration, and, um, the other is: there’s not a whole lot of pensions around anymore. If you do your 20 years in the military, then you get a pension, and, um—so, yeah. I would strongly encourage folks that[sic]—that[sic] are really, truly want to serve their country to—to consider it, and—regardless whether it’s Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard—all that. I’ve never been one to say, “Well, it’s gotta be Army only.” Yeah. We all serve.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Uh, is there anything else you want to talk about? Any stories you wanna tell us? Anything that comes to mind?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, no. I don’t think so.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>No? Okay. Well, I would like to thank you for sharing your story with us, and myself, and the UCF community, and we will be in touch with you once the copy of the interview is done.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay. Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Representative.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Representative.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Legally named Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy III.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Sabalauski Air Assault School (TSAAS).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Also known as the Persian Gulf War, First Gulf War, Gulf War I, Kuwait War, and Iraq War.</p>
</div>
</div>
45th Parallel North
75th Ranger Regiment
Air Assault Badge
Air Assault School
Airborne School
aircraft
airplanes
alcohol
alcoholic beverages
Army Air Assault School
Army Airborne School
Army Ranger
balaclava
bugle notes
C-130
C-141
C-160
Community Veterans History Project
Connie Mack
Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy II
Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy III
Corsica, France
cows
Curt Sawyer
CVHP
Demilitarized Zone
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Department of Veterans Affairs
deployments
DMZ
Dojuan Sawyer
DPRK
DZ
Ed Hoyt
Edison Community College
education
Eglin AFB
Eglin Air Force Base
enlistment
fast strobing
firstie
Florida SouthWestern State College
Fort Benning, Georgia
Fort Myers, Florida
Forty-Fifth Parallel North
French Foreign Legion
GI Bill
Guard Post Ouellette
Itaewon, Yongsan-gu, Seoul, South Korea
Iver
Jeep
Joint Readiness Training Center
JRTC
Jump School
Korean War
Land Rovers
line platoons
Lisa Dojuan
Lockheed C-130 Hercules
Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
military benefits
military education
military training
North Korea
Officer Basic Corps
parachutes
planes
plebe years
plebes
R&R
Ranger
Ranger Regiment
Ranger School
RB-15
Republic of Korea
rest and recuperation
Robin Dunn
ROK
Sabalauski Air Assault School
San Francisco, California
Savannah, Georgia
scout platoon
scout platoons
Seoul, South Korea
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
Seventy-Fifth Ranger Regiment
soju
soldiers
South Korea
Special Operations Command
Tennessee
training
Transall C-160
TSAAS
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Special Operations Command
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
United States Military Academy at West Point
USASOC
USMA
VA
veterans
Veterans Affairs
watch caps
West Point
yearly
Zodiac
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/568a371c7d9a15e61420e9cc47801acb.pdf
91becf0a983b24e5f0ec57c4729e3381
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of William Reuter
Alternative Title
Oral History, Reuter
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Simulation
Description
An oral history interview of William Reuter (b. 1961), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1979 until 2012. Reuter was born in Camden, New Jersey on April 21, 1961. He served in Libya during the Action in the Gulf of Sidra and in the fjords of Norway. Reuter achieved the rank of Captain, earned a Legion of Merit, and served as Executive Officer (XO) at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD) at Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Daniel Bradfield on March 10, 2014. Interview topics include Reuter's experiences as XO at NAWCTSD, the simulation industry, Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando, the Lone Sailor Memorial Project, and applying to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:38 Background<br />0:01:40 Joining the Navy and active duty in warzones<br />0:05:20 Executive Officer at Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division<br />0:09:35 Simulation industry<br />0:15:05 Post-Navy career and lessons learned from naval experience<br />0:16:59 Naval Training Center Orlando and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:19:07 National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Abstract
Oral history interview of William Reuter. Interview conducted by Daniel Bradfield at Central Florida Research Park in Orlando, Florida on March 10, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
12-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida
Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Reuter, William
Bradfield, Daniel
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-10
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-10
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
137 MB
165 KB
Medium
21-minute and 23-second DVD audio/video recording
12-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Daniel Bradfield and William Reuter.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Today is March 10<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing [William] “Bill” Rotto[sic]—Reuter, who served in the United States Navy from 1979 through 2010?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>2012.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>2012. Um, they, uh—Mr. Reuter served during the Cold War and completed his service as a…</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Captain.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Captain. Um, my name is Daniel Bradfield. We are interviewing Mr. Reuter as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Reuter, can you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter <br /></strong>I was born in [April 4<sup>th</sup>,] 1961 in Camden New Jersey.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>My dad owned a mobile home business in, uh, Key West, Florida, which is where I grew up, and, uh, my mother, uh did all kinds of different things, including deal with us.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, what did you, uh—do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I have two younger brothers and, uh—one of them in Pennsylvania and the other down in the Keys.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I went to school in Key West. Uh, grew up in a trailer park, because we owned trailers and trailer parks, and so, uh—but, uh—all—all throughout my life in Key West.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, basically, I was a student—I was a high school student, and received an [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] ROTC scholarship out of—out of Key West High School, and then went straight to UF [University of Florida] to, uh, start my journey in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, why did you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I wanted to fly airplanes. I wanted be an astronaut.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, do you have any other family members in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I had an uncle that was in the Air Force, uh, but that’s about it.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Very, very supportive.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>As an officer, my boot camp was really going through the Reserve Officer[sic] Training Corps program at UF. So I didn’t attend a formal boot camp, like many of the enlisted sailors that you’ve interviewed.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you ever see active duty in a warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, only on, uh, Line of Death in Libya, and, uh, in the Norwegian fjords, uh, against Soviet, uh, reconnaissance, uh, and bomber aircraft, but not in the current [Persian] Gulf conflict.<a title="">[1]</a></p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, do you have any stories you’d like to share about those encounters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter <br /></strong>Well, I mean, it’s always fun seeing people that, you know, think differently from you, and back in the [19]80s, certainly, we saw the Soviet Union as, uh—as sort of an enigma. It was very, very mysterious, because they were in this whole different, you know, behind the—Steel Curtain, you know? And so, uh, we had a lot of curiosity, and—and, uh, we’d look back at each other in airplanes, and here we are up in the middle of nowhere, and we just con—continue to have that kind of curiosity. Most of my stories having to do with, uh, stress and overcoming stress in the service have more to do with landing aircraft—landing aircraft on aircraft carriers at night. Those sorts of things. Because those are often, uh, scarier than most other things that an aviator would encounter.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Do you have any stories about any close calls while trying to land on an aircraft carrier?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Certainly. Uh, well, I can tell you that, uh, at one point, I was—I had had a, uh, problem—what we call a “bleed air fuel leak,” which can create a fire, and so I had lights in the cockpit that were saying that there was excessive heat in the engine compartment. Uh, and it was—it’s what they call “one step short of a fire.” And a fire out on the aircraft carrier, when there’s really nowhere else to go, and, In this case, the aircraft carrier was so far off of any coast, that we were doing what you call “blue water op[eration]s.” “Blue water ops” meaning you’re going nowhere but back to the carrier, or the aircraft is going in the ocean. So we had to think real quick[sic]. We had just launched off catapult, so we were still very heavy, and we couldn’t land on the carrier right away. Carrier read—wasn’t even ready to catch us right away. So, uh—so we had to do, uh, some— real, uh, quick emergency things. Cockpit was getting very, very hot. Uh, they estimated it was around 130 degrees, uh, in the cockpit, and, um, we had to, uh—had to bring it back aboard the carrier, and—and, uh, did that, and got out of the airplane, and went down, and had me a cheeseburger. Because, uh, that’s one of the ways that we aviators deals[sic] with—deal with stress.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you receive any special commendations or medals?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /><br /></strong>Uh, lots in the Navy, certainly. A couple of Legions of Merit medals, uh, which I am very, very grateful for. Uh, most of my accolades though, I can tell you—like most other sailors, I believe, would say—and that is: it’s not only due to them personally. None of these awards, uh—though you wear them as a personal decoration—a decoration, most of the time, they are as a result of the team you were on and the people you served with. Uh, But I was very fortunate to get a—a good number of accolades, uh, in the Navy, Including two commands. Uh, my—my biggest role, before this role down here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], uh, was—it’s Commanding Officer and Chief Test Pilot of the squadron up at [Naval Air Station] Patuxent River, Maryland, Where I flew as an [McDonnell Douglas] F[/A]-18 [Hornet]<a title="">[2]</a> test pilot.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, when were you assigned to NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I got here in, uh, January of 2008. So—and as I—as I moved into the role as Executive Officer, which is the second-in-command.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you know the—did you know about the region, militarily or other, before coming to NAWCTSD Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>All I knew about Orlando, uh, other than knowing a little bit of what NAWCTSD did and the—the—I did not know or appreciate the whole modeling and simulation cluster we had here. I knew there was a base,<a title="">[3]</a> when there was a boot camp,<a title="">[4]</a> and everything like that, and the nuke school,<a title="">[5]</a> But I did not know a lot about what NAWCTSD did, other than produce the aviation simulators that I was fortunate enough to fly.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your first impressions of the base?<a title="">[6]</a> Or—or the surrounding area?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was very impressed with the—the—the—the proximity of everything. I was impressed that we were really close to the Army and we were really close to the Air Force and Marine Corps, and I was astounded with the intimacy of the relationship with the University of Central Florida, uh, and—and continued to enjoy that relationship throughout my tenure at NAWCTSD.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>How did that compare to other bases you have been stationed at?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>There’s absolutely nothing like this area right here. There—there are no—no entities, within the [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense], that duplicate what we have here. What we have here is a clear synergistic effect, not only based on proximity. You can put anybody in a building next to another entity and not gain the kind of synergies we get here from the partnerships and the relationships that we have across academia, and industry, and now these DOD activities.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your first days at NAWS—NAWCTSD like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I came in with—wearing civilian clothes, ‘Cause I was actually a, uh—in a—in a class. So this class had you wearing civilian clothes. So people didn’t know that I was the guy that was gonna come in and eventually be in charge. So it was actually very cool, ‘cause I could have this sort of <em>Brubaker</em> approach to it, Where [Henry] Brubaker was the guy that[sic] went into the prison as the warden and he went in as an inmate. So I kinda went in in that underground kind of incognito way, and it was great, ‘cause I got to hear the conversations. I got to understand a little bit more about the culture/ but it is the most unique place that I have ever served in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your primary responsibilities while you were at NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was the Executive Officer, who is the second-in-command, so responsible for pretty much everything that happens, uh, at NAWCTSD, and the other thing that a lot people don’t rec—recognize is that when you’re the commanding officer, or the Executive Officer, of NAWCTSD, You are also the Executive Officer, Commanding Officer of NSA Orlando—the Naval Support Activity Orlando, which is the base. So all of the stuff that deals with the gates, and the guards, and any of the sort of anti-terrorism measures, or any of that kind of stuff when it comes to protection, You deal with in capacity as CO or the XO, so—Commanding Officer or Executive Officer—of NSA Orlando. So you really had two hats and two jobs.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>So, eh, what was a typical day like, um, when you were, uh, Executive Officer?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, a typical day as Executive Officer, uh, had a lot to do with, uh, a series of meeting, most of which were people that[sic] wanted a decision about one thing or another. Some of them were informational, but we tried to keep those to a minimum. Most of the time, I was given direction and—and providing guidance to people that were trying to, uh, make decisions. Uh, I—I tried to give them enough context to how I would decide, so that they could make decisions on their own and have my full faith, trust, and confidence, as they did so. So a lot of different things go on as you can imagine. Running, uh, a warfare center and a base, and so, there’s, uh, everything from acquisition stuff that has to be decided, to what, uh—to—to where we’re gonna—to what color carpet we’re gonna pick out. There’s just a lot of different things [<em>laughs</em>] that—you[?] pro—and anything in between that spectrum.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, can you tell us about the types of projects you worked on and what they aimed to accomplish?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>The things that I’m most proud of, and the thing that people need to understand is that: simulation—we talk about it, kind of, trying to create an environment that is the real thing, and, in this environ—in this world today— in the way that we train our airmen, our sailors, our soldiers, and our Marines, We have to create some really, really immersive environments, in order to generate the kind of suspension of disbelief. For people to go in there and actually get proficiency from these environments. I mean, there’s[sic] so many people playing video games and they’re dealing with such cool graphics and immersive effects that you really, really need to wow them, in order to create that environment, and in the aviation community, it becomes even harder, because you’re dealing with very dynamic technology and it’s not as easy to do that.</p>
<p>So what we decided to do in the Navy was really, really take hold of this whole idea of increasing the fidelity of our simulations. Whether it be better visuals, better motions, better all kinds of different things that you can do to generate, uh—to—to give them an environment where they could actually be trained, and so, we were—I was—I was fortunate enough to be there, from ‘08 to ‘12—from 2008 to 2012—where we made huge investments that we still continue to make, but it was really the—the tip of the iceberg, for the money that’s going into simulation and that is being taken out of a lot of the live exercises that we used to do that cost a lot of money and that required a lot of infrastructure, and you had to sustain that infrastructure. So that’s a—a cost that is per—you know, in perpetuity. So we’ve have really changed our mindset on simulation. That’s been the most important thing that I was a part of—of being able to do that in, uh, aviation, surface, subsurface, and other communities.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>In what ways have the simulation projects at NAWCTSD impacted other branches of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>So the Air Force, uh, is very, very big on simulation, as well. They’re—we do a lot of collaboration through—not only of the acquisitions that we do, you know? We—we go out and we buy a simulator, and we go to some of these industry partners that are in this area and around the country, and, in fact, the world, and we buy, you know, an aircraft simulator or we buy a ship simulator, or something like that, but what’s really cool is the collaboration that goes into the technical side of this, before we ever ask industry to give us a simulator. We inform each other, through symposia and the like, to understand better the science of learning, to understand better where the technology is going, So we can be leaning forward as a DOD—and not only as a DOD, but as other agencies around here. We still work with the [U.S.] Department of Homeland Security and with other agencies that have benefit from this technology training their workforce—whatever it might be. So that collaborative energy, and the fact that we have papers, and we have symposia that sort of continue to nurture that collective understanding of the technology and its merit in the science of learning. That’s what moves this needle forward for all of us. So that NAWC—it’s not only NAWCTSD, or PEO STRI [Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training and Instrumentation], or any of those entities. It is all those entities and their collective, uh, IP—intellectual property—to get together that gets moved forward.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think the future holds for simulation training in Central Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Si—there is—there’s really no limit to what we can do with simulation and training in Central Florida. The fact that we have grown it, based on DODs demand, is very fortunate, but it is certainly not the limit to the application of this technology into other fields. We talk about transportation, we talk—modeling and simulating transportation, In order to understand where chokepoints are, to, uh, train people in dealing with different crises, to train emergency first responders, to train medical professionals. We’re already doing that at the VA [Veterans Health Administration] Sim[ulation] Learning[, Education and Research Network National Simulation] Center down here at Lake Nona, where [Lake Nona] Medical City is. We talk about construction simulation, So that we avoid, uh, costs of engineering changes and things like that, once we have gone into the construction phase, through just So many—education. There is so many applications of this simulation technology in—in moving forward. All of these industries.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think are the most important achievements or contributions of the simulation projects to technology and to the future of technology?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I think that the—the most important contribution was to give some other technologies an application that actually could affect an end-product. So if you think about digital media and graphics, alright? and some of the, um, some of the, uh—the stuff we’re doing with, uh—with extensive graphics—much—much higher definition graphics—There’s are a lot of different applications for those types of technologies. What we did was bring those technologies into, uh, a simulation, into creating a virtual environment, Such that we could add proficiency to people. We can do that in so many different ways, not only across DOD, but others, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfiels<br /></strong>When did you leave the Navy, and what did you do after you left?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>So I left the Navy in September of 2012, um, just—Not even two years ago now—And started my own consulting practice. I’ve also continued to work in the simulation industry and work with both companies in—in the simulation industry, as well as with folks like the [Metro Orlando] Economic Development Commission, and—and the Mayor’s office, and people that are moving forward this understanding of how simulation can grow and affect our economy. I was fortunate enough, in the very beginning of, uh—right after I retired, to assist in writing the strategic plan for modeling and simulation for Central Florida, and I can tell ya, more than anything we have a center of excellence. We need to grow and nurture it, even beyond the DOD, such that DOD just wants to be around it, because they recognize the kind of ecosystem we have here.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, he standard answer, of course, would be: honor, courage, and commitment, and they, uh—and those are our watchwords in the Navy, and the—the caliber of people that I have met—that I have lifelong friends, uh, that[sic] I’ve been 28 years in the Navy. You’ve met people in so many different stages of your career, and you continue to be in touch with them, and so, that sort of, uh—that’s sort of such a nurturing environment, and the fact that we were off and off of the aircraft carrier, and test flying up in Patuxent River, Maryland, Launching into some pretty hairy situations, uh, and—and came through it, and shared a beer at the end, uh, Just continues to nurture those relationships, and we’ve seen kids grow up together, and we’ve had a lot of fun, and so that’s been the most valuable piece for me.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>How has the NTC Orlando base or Central Florida region changed since the time you spent there?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>In my case, of course, that would be a little NA [not applicable], But I can tell you that I’ve, uh—because I didn’t spend the time at NTC—But I can tell you that, um, you know, what has been done at [Lake] Baldwin Park is phenomenal. No question about it, it has definitely one of the better repurposing of a base environment that, uh, has taken place in our entire country, when it comes to BRACs, and how people have responded to Base Realignment and Closure. Uh, I think what’s unfortunate—and what was unfortunate for me and my family—was when we came here and saw that there was really no evidence that the Navy had been there, and so hence, the rationale and the driver behind the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial Project.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit—when they revisit the site of the base and the LS[M]P memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I think, more than anything, they want to imagine—re—reimagine, especially ones that were stationed there, what that Grinder was like, to recognize that that is hallowed ground, and to be able to tell their descendants about the time that they spent here and the pride that they took in getting through that. Whether it had been the nuke school or whether it was RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]—you know, because there were a lot of Navy entities here, at that time, and so, they—people need to understand what the Navy meant to Orlando during those days. It was a big Navy town. People started and—and made businesses grow, as a result of the Navy being here during those times, and so, to have—and we’ve got such a tremendous amount of support from people way out of town, That have roots here in Orlando based on their time here at RTC, and so somehow, we have got to—got to memorialize that, and give them a chance to re-experience that and pass that on down the generations.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I tell ya, I’m just—I was very blessed from the word go. Um, you know, you’re talking to a kid that—that grew up running on coral in Key West, And—often barefoot—had a dream to be an astronaut. Ended up going through the whole program, into Test Pilot School, finalist for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], ended up coming here into a place that I had no idea how special it was, and I—I’m grateful for the relationships that we have built, and I have built personally, as a Navy guy, with the folks at UCF with president [John C.] Hitt and a lot of others in this community, uh, that truly, truly are a partnership community, and, uh, it was the best way to—to leave the Navy. Understanding, that one, my command was in my good hands and the Navy was in good hands but also to come out into this tremendous community that[?], um, I’ve learned more in the last four years being in the Navy, than, uh, arguably then I learned in the la—in the ten prior, Uh, for sure.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>When did you start your astronaut training?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, you—basically, what you do is you—as you—when you become a test pilot and you go through Test Pilot School, You are then, uh, afforded the opportunity to apply to NASA, and the thing—fortunately or unfortunately—when I was through that training and was applying for NASA, We had—had encountered a couple of really tough things. The [Space Shuttle] <em>Challenger</em> disaster, uh, certainly setback some—in 1986—se—or 1985<a title="">[7]</a>—setback some things pretty big, and then the [Space Shuttle] <em>Columbia</em> disaster was really the one that was tough. I mean, I had two buddies on the <em>Columbia</em> that day: uh, [William] “Willie” [Cameron] McCool and Dr. David [McDowell] Brown, uh, and that really slowed the manifest of space shuttle launches. So—so it was harder to get through the eye of the needle there, when it came to NASA. They weren’t taking as many people—all that kinda stuff. So I was a finalist three times. I—I’m very grateful for that, But at the end of the day, uh, somebody had other plans, and I have no problem with that, and I am very, very grateful that I got to come here.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Iraq War.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Now manufactured the Boeing Company as the Boeing F/A-18 Hornet.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Nuclear Power School.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> Correction: January 28, 1986.</p>
</div>
</div>
Action in the Gulf of Sidra
aircraft
aircraft carriers
airplanes
anti-terrorism
astronauts
aviation
aviation simulations
aviation simulators
aviators
Baldwin Park
Base Realignment and Closure
Bill Reuter
bleed air fuel leak
blue water operation
Boeing F/A-18 Hornet
BRAC
Challenger disaster
Chief Test Pilot
cold war
college
colleges
Columbia
Columbia disaster
Commanding Officer
commendation
commendations
Community Veterans History Project
CVHP
Daniel Bradfield
David M. Brown
David McDowell Brown
education
Executive Officer
F-18
Henry Brubaker
Key West
Key West High School
KWHS
Lake Baldwin Park
Legion of Merit
Libya
Line of Death
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet
medals
memorials
military education
modeling
monuments
NAS Patuxent River
NASA
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Naval Air Station Patuxent River
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Support Activity
Naval Support Activity Orlando
Naval Training Center
Naval Training Center Orlando
NAWCTSD
Norway
NSA Orlando
NTC Orlando
outer space
Patuxent River, Maryland
pilots
planes
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
ROTC
RTC Orlando
science of learning
Soviet Union
Soviets
Space Shuttle Challenger
Space Shuttle Challenger disaster
Space Shuttle Columbia
Space Shuttle Columbia disaster
SU
terrorism
Test Pilot School
test pilots
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Navy
UCF
UF
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
universities
university
University of Central Florida
University of Florida
USSR
veterams
veteran
wars
warzones
William C. McCool
William Cameron McCool
William Reuter
Willie McCool
XO
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9758a30bbef0211d459a0125540b3451.pdf
c60e6d25aaa04eb52789bf35b14b4d1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Richard Tobias Sloane
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sloane
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Description
An oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane (b. 1934), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1964 to 1969, during the Vietnam War. Sloane was born in Queens, New York City, New York, on March 4, 1934. In August of 1964, he was commissioned into the Navy. Sloane served in Vietnam from September of 1967 to September of 1968. He also served on the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, USS <em>Santa Barbara</em> in River Section 35, the USS <em>Garcia</em>, the USS <em>Wisconsin</em>, and the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>. Sloane achieved the rank of Captain and earned a Purple Heart, Bronze Star with V Device, Legion of Merit, Combat Action Award, and Navy E Ribbon.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Carli Van Zandt on March 5, 2014. Interview topics include Sloane's background, joining the Navy, the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, Officer Candidate School (OCS), the Vietnam War, Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando, the Grinder, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, airbases in Central Florida, the simulation industry, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:02:52 Background<br />0:01:58 Enlistment and USS <em>Rockbridge</em><br />0:05:44 Officer Candidate School<br />0:08:20 Graduation<br />0:09:53 Repair Division Officer<br />0:11:22 Vietnam War<br />0:18:09 Other assignments<br />0:21:52 Wife and children<br />0:24:18 Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:27:11 Daily life and training at NTC Orlando<br />0:32:31 Advanced training at NTC Orlando<br />0:33:51 Central Florida airbases<br />0:35:39 Simulation industry<br />0:37:01 Hardest aspect, proudest moment, and memories from NTC Orlando<br />0:42:51 Leaving the Navy and keeping in touch with friends<br />0:45:22 Lessons learned, the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Abstract
Oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane. Interview conducted by Carli Van Zandt at the Education Building, Room 123, of the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on March 5, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
22-page digital transcript of original 50-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Queens, New York City, New York
Officer Candidate School, Newport, Rhode Island
Mekong Delta, Vietnam
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sloane, Richard Tobias
Van Zandt, Carli
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-05
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-05
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
432 MB
230 KB
Medium
50-minute and 17-second DVD aduio/video recording
22-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Carli Van Zandt and Richard Tobias Sloane.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you for coming today. I’m so glad that you made it.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Today is March 5<sup>th</sup>[, 2014] and I’m interviewing Mr. Richard Tobias Sloane, and he served in the United States Navy. Uh, we are doing this history project for the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]. My name is [Carolyn] Carli Van Zandt, uh, and my cameraperson is Fernando Maldonado. We are interviewing Mr. Sloane as part of, uh, the Community Veteran History Project and Loan Sailor Memorial Project. Uh, recording here today, in the Education Building, Room 123—the conference room—in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Sloane, will you please begin by telling us a little bit about, uh, what branch of service you were in and your rank, uh, which you retired at?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I was in the United States Navy. I retired as a Captain in [20]06 in the United States Navy. Started my service in 1964 at the Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Thank you. Uh, I’m going to get a little background information here. Can you tell us when you were born? Where you was born?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I was born on March the 4<sup>th</sup>, 1943. Yesterday was my birthday, so this is very appropriate. I was born in, uh, the Borough of Queens, New York City, in the State of New York.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My father was a, uh—a wholesale merchant in dry goods in New York, on the lower eastside of Manhattan. My mother was a homemaker, and later in her life, she was in retail, uh, store sales in New York—in Long Island, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, do you have brothers, sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I have two older brothers. Uh, my oldest brother was retired Navy Captain also. He attended the United States Naval Academy—Class of 1957, and, uh, the middle brother, um, attended Harvard University, and Harvard, uh, Business School.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Uh, would you tell me a little about how, uh, your family life may have impacted your decision to, uh, enter the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, there was no doubt in my mind that my oldest brother, who’s about seven years, uh, my senior, if you will, uh, attended the Naval Academy when I was young, uh, junior high school, uh, person, and watching him go through that academy for four years and then his, uh—the beginning of his military service definitely had an impact my decision to join the Navy. When I completed my studies at Boston University—and in 1964, the—the draft was still in effect—and the choices were to continue my education, at the time, or to be drafted, or to sign up for the service, uh, of my choice, and at the time, I picked that choice to be in the United States Navy. I didn’t realize, at the time, it would be a career choice, uh, but I enjoyed my early years in the service, such that I decided to stick around.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. So tell me more about, um, what impacted your decision to stick around.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I had a great first assignment. I came out of college at about 22 years old, uh—maybe even younger, at the time, and, uh, I was assigned to a ship called the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>—hull number APA-228, and that was a, uh—an amphibious troupe transport from the World War II era. Uh, the mission of the ship was to embark Marines—about 800 Marines—and associated cargo, and land on the shore in amphibious landings, and, uh, the, uh, manning of that ship—the Ward Room—if you will, the “Officer Car”—was made up with a lot of, uh, old timers, uh—warrants, mustangs as department heads. People who had been former enlisted[?], came up in the ranks, and they were sort of like—I don’t want to classify them as grandfatherly types—but they were very, uh, mature in there service, and, uh, the Commanding Officers of the ship when I was there, under which I had three Commanding Officers, were also senior Navy Captains who were on their way to major command and, uh, come[sic] out of aviation, and were going to head to larger ships, if you will. So again, they were very self-confident individuals, very accomplished people, and the younger officers, like myself, were all fresh, wet-behind-the-ears college kids, and so it was a very, very, um, engaging environment, um, a very learning environment, while, obviously, there’s a lot of pressure you to anything you do in that Navy environment.</p>
<p>It was such that you—you felt that you was learning, you felt like you were being mentored, uh, and I came away from that tour, uh, very, very, uh, personally fulfilled and—and feeling good about what I was doing. The sense of responsibility, that you got, which has always been, uh, something the Navy has played on for young beginners—that we’re going to give you, uh, tremendous responsibility that your peers, who were out working at Macy’s or selling insurance aren’t going to experience for a long, long time, and I found that to be true, because, uh, they give you things to do, and say, “Here’s a job. Go do it.” And they had enough faith in you to let you do it—to watch you close enough, so they wouldn’t let you mess up too bad. So it was a very, very good experience, as I look back on it over the years. I think that was principally what made me feel comfortable about staying in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>You mentioned that you got this, uh, officer start before you did this first duty assignment through, um, Officer Candidate School, or OCS?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Correct.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Could you tell me a little bit about, um, what that experience is like?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, talk about the shock of your life. You come out of a university, a—very, uh, loving home, uh, environment, as I grew up. Um, so you leave the university. Again, you’ve had a sense of what service life might be like, because of my brother’s experience, but obviously, you really don’t know exactly what you’re getting into, and I remember, at the time, there was only a ferry that crossed from the main land over to Newport, [inaudible] Island, unless you wanted to go all the way up and around, by Fall River[, Massachusetts] and Providence[, Rhode Island]. Today, they have a bridge, but I remember on that ferry, as I reported for duty to go to OCS, and looking out over the water and said, what <em>have I done? </em>[<em>laughs</em>]. That sort of thing, because I didn’t know what I was headed for, but it was also a very, uh, broadening and lightening experience, because most of my childhood and my college experience, for the most part, was very, um—I forget what the right word is—but very, uh contained.</p>
<p>Uh, it wasn’t broadening. It was broadening educationally and, again, growing up in New York, you have a broadened sense of what life could be like, but I had never, uh, been in an environment with people from the South, people from the West, people from all sorts of cultures, uh—that sort of thing, and now you’re thrown into a barracks environment, uh, which is not quite the same as a college dormitory or fraternity house. Um, you’re—you’re being asked to do things in a very regimented way, uh, being held very, very responsible and accountable for the most minute, uh, daily life, uh, activities, and so while it wasn’t a shock, uh, it was certainly different. and it is a crash course, so your—things that, uh, people in NROTC [Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps] programs or Academy programs are getting years and years of time to, uh, uh acculture[sic] to and learn. You’re getting a crash course. It’s not that—it wasn’t that challenging or difficult, but you certainly had pay attention, and again, aside from the academics, the military side, um—it was just an enlightening experience. Mostly, in—in the exposure to people of different cultures, uh, uh, than ever before.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Graduation day.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Wow. You know, the funny thing was, uh, I can’t remember exactly—the whole program was about four months, and, uh, at about maybe three weeks before you graduate, uh, you get your orders, and the way you get your orders is, uh, you’re in a company of 30 men—maybe your class had a couple hundred in it, but, um—so you’re in a company of 30 men, and you get a—a message, if you will, to report to the barracks chief or the company chief at the company headquarters, and he’s going to tell you where you’re going, and I’ll never forget, he—he said—he said “Sloane, you’re going to the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, APA228.” and I said, “Chief, what’s that?” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>I had no idea, because with all that indoctrination, I don’t think we ever got down into the grass as to ship types, you know? it was mostly here’s how you, uh, get from point A to point B, here’s how you do this, a lot of PT [physical training], uh, this, that, and the other thing, a lot of naval history. Uh, but I—I remember to this day, he told me where I was going, I had no idea what kind of ship it was or anything of that nature. So, uh, that was a little before graduation, but graduation day, you’re filled with pride, you have your ensign stripe[?], uh, and your off on a real, real adventure, you know? You’re glad to be leaving that environment, but you’re full of apprehension, because now, you’re going to be really entering the workforce, sort of to speak.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br />‘</strong>Kay. So you’re trained as a—a new ensign. What was your actual job as a new ensign?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, my first job, again, was in the engineering department, and I was the [Repair] Division Officer for the repair division. The Division Officer—you’re in charge of a group of enlisted men and—with a specific function—and their job was metalsmith and woodworking, if you will, on this ship. So, um, they were doing all that type of work. It was a small group. Uh, I was sort of fortunate and respected, instead of being put immediately in charge of a large division, which might’ve been at least 30 men or 40 men. It was small, compact.</p>
<p>Again, a lot of good leadership, you know? It’s always the Chief Petty Officer in the Navy who really knows what’s going on and runs the Navy. and especially when you’re brand new, I mean, you—even with what little book-learning you got, you have not a great idea on the technical aspects of what the people are doing, you’re worried about all the different aspects of being able to stand the watch, drive a ship, um, do your daily duties, oversee the people who are working for you—or working with you, uh,—that sort of thing, and again, it was a lot of—I don’t want to use the word “old timers”—but Senior Chief Petty Officers, uh, who had a lot of experience and confidence in their work, um, middle-grade Petty Officers. It was a good bunch. It was the right place for me to go for a start, because I had a lot of support from below.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, your early assignments—it sounds like you had a lot of on-the-job training, do you think it is because it was the Vietnam [War] era?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane <br /></strong>Well, uh, if you’re talking about the first ship, absolutely, you know? I mean, uh, at the time, a lot of people were going over to Vietnam. Uh, my second tour duty was in Vietnam, and by the time I have spent about two and a half years on that ship, I had, uh, changed jobs on the ship. I was, uh, made gunnery officer on that ship, which was—gave me an opportunity to learn another aspect of, uh, ship ward responsibility and duties, and so again, when I, uh, finished up that tour in about two in a half years, uh, I was very confident. I had, uh, been promoted one grade from ensign to Lieutenant Junior grade. Very proud, and, uh, left that ship with a great deal of confidence, I think.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Great. Um, can you tell me a little about your Vietnam experience?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>As much as you can.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, uh, absolutely. Um, Funny thing is, um: I—I mentioned earlier that I worked with these great people, you know? Uh, uh, as many warrants and LDOs [limited duty officers] who had maturity, a lot of experience, um, and how I got to Vietnam, I always thought was an interesting story. The Navy Bureau of Naval Personnel put out a newsletter about every month that they—a hard copy paper newsletter, and they went to every ship, and it—it really talked about what assignments were available to different people and different grade, what was happening in the personnel management area, um, and they came out with an article that said they were looking for Lieutenants Junior grade to be the Commanding Officers of LSTs, uh— “Landing Ship Tanks” —uh, to serve as mother ships for river patrol boats in Vietnam. So these LSTS would be at the mouths of the river, they would be the mother ship for 10 or 20 small river patrol boats, and they wanted Lieutenant JGs [Junior Grade] to be, uh, XOs. They wanted them to be XOs—Executive Officers, and I read that article, and, uh, my boss, at the time, was a Lieutenant, uh—LDO—an “old salt,” who I greatly admired, and he read that article. They were looking for Lieutenants to be Commanding Officers—Lieutenant JGs was to XOs to these LSTs, and he reads this article, and he says—he says, “Boy, I want to be a CO of a, LST.” And he said, “Rich, come be my XO.” You know, “We’ll go together.” I’ll—he’ll be the CO and I’ll be the XO of this LST.</p>
<p>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] to go from being a Division Officer to an Executive Officer is highly unusual. Uh, but here is an opportunity, because it fit the mold, uh, of what they were looking for in Vietnam. I said, “Absolutely.” and I immediately wrote my detailer—the guy in Washington[, D.C.] who made these assignments—and—and, uh, I said, “I want to go be an XO on an LST, just like you wrote you needed, uh—uh, JGs to be XOs on LST. I want that job.” He wrote back—[<em>clears throat</em>] he said—corresponded back, “You know, you’re a little too junior,” because you’re in the JG billet for a number of years, uh—JG rank. Said, “You’re a little too junior, but we have lots of other jobs available for ya in Vietnam.” I said, “Okay.” I said, “But don’t give me a desk job. I want a job where the action is.” Next thing you know, I had a letters to a river patrol section that drove little plastic boats on the rivers of the Mekong Delta. So that’s how I got there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Wow.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, I know, and then [<em>laughs</em>]—and then, my boss—I don’t think he ever got the job of CO. He did—he may have gotten an LST, but I don’t know that he had one off of Vietnam. Um, I spent a year. The tour that you got was a year. It was a small outfit—maybe a hundred people, if that. Uh, Most of them were assigned to run the boats, and the others were assigned as maintenance people. Uh, there was[sic], uh, two Lieutenants and three Lieutenants Junior grade, who made the officer structure. Then you had a number of Chief Petty Officers, and a host of, UH, other enlisted personnel, who manned the boats, and we spent a year patrolling the rivers of Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What impact do you think this experience had on you?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, it had a tremendous impact. Um, you know, you sad[sic] in the sense that you were at war. You were certainly, uh, aware of that. Um, I think it was Winston [Leonard Spencer- ]Churchill who said something like, “There is nothing more exhilarating than being shot at and missed.”<a title="">[1]</a> Uh, and I had that experience. Um, uh, we’ve lost a number of people from our section to combat, while I was there, and I respect—I consider myself fortunate that I—that I, uh, um, didn’t have a harrowing[?] experience that—that cost me more than it did, so to speak. Um, uh, it was interesting to be in country, in—in that environment—to meet people of Vietnam, um, in many different, uh, ways, if you will. Um, and that’s about it.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Do you think, um, your time through these, uh—the last two assignments that you just described help shape your leadership style?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, I think to some degree. That’s hard to say, um, how you developed, what—what it was that caused you to develop your leadership. I think more, uh—I don’t know. I only speak for myself, but I think more it was my upbringing than anything else. There’s all sorts of leaders—different people. Some lead in fear, some lead in—in different manners, and I just think it was the way that I was brought up that really, uh, set the foundation for my leadership style. I think a lot of your style is not so much developed in those early years, but further as you go along, you get more responsibility. Certainly there was a lot of responsibility from day one at different levels, and—and very significant responsibility, but my impression was: the further along you got, the more leadership experience you had. You had the opportunity to observe other leaders, you know? The—the common phrase, as well, eh, you know; “I’m not going to do it like he did it when I grow up.” That sort of thing. So, uh, how you developed it is—is a, in my opinion—for me, at least, is a combination of a lot of things: my personal upbringing, the experiences that I had as you climb that ladder can really shape.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you. What other, um, duty assignments did you take after your tour in Vietnam and prior to coming to NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. I came back from Vietnam and I was, uh, selected to go what then called the “Navy Destroyers School,”<a title="">[2]</a> which was really a course to prepare you to be a department head on a destroyer-type, um, ship. Um, that was a six-month course in Newport, Rhode Island. I met my wife there, during that time period. I courted her, eh, in—in those years—that time frame. Um, Went to USS <em>Garcia</em> DE-1040. Home-ported out of Newport, Rhode Island, as the Weapons [Systems] Officer.</p>
<p>Um, from there, uh, I have to think back. I went to the USS—oh, excuse me. From there, I went to, uh, instructor duty at what was then the beginning of the Navy Surface Warfare Officers School and served as an instructor to ensigns, who were coming from their commissioning source before they were going to surface ships, and, uh, that was about three-year tour in Newport, and then I went to USS <em>Milwaukee</em> AOR-2—I think it was. Homeport in Norfolk, Virginia, a multiproduct ship, uh, stationed out of Norfolk, Virginia. Great tour of duty, great, uh, shipmates there. Again, uh, a tremendous learning experience as a department head for the deck department. Uh, A lot of responsibility, a lot of work there. From <em>Milwaukee</em>, we went to shore duty in Millington, Tennessee—a little bit north of Memphis, where the Navy had its, uh, training headquarters, and, uh, I served on, uh, the staff of, uh, Naval Education and Training [Command] —technical training—in Memphis—Millington.</p>
<p>Uh, from there, after a short one year tour, um, I went to Hawaii, uh, to be, uh, Executive Officer on the USS <em>Hassayampa</em>, an oiler in, uh, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Another great tour. Uh, I think the, uh, thing that made my career so gratifying was the great shipmates and the leaders that I worked with over the years on these ships. From Hawaii, came back to Norfolk and served on the staff of, uh, Commander Carrier Group 8. Went to sea on aircraft carriers as a Surface Warfare Advisor, if you will—surface op[eration]s officer. Completed that tour, working for a couple of flag officers, and from there, let’s see. Where’d we go? [U.S.] Naval War College, I believe. Tour[?] in Newport, Rhode Island, at the Naval War College. A very int—interesting time, and then went to, um, command the USS <em>Santa Barbara</em>, uh, AE-28, out of Charleston, South Carolina. Was on board there for about two in half years, in command of the <em>Santa Barbara</em>. Went from there to, uh, the Executive Officer of Service Schools[sic] Command. [Naval Station] Great Lakes—very large training activity, uh, up in Great Lakes, Illinois, just north of Chicago[, Illinois], and from there, I came to Orlando, Florida, in command of the Service School Command Activity here at the Naval Training Center Orlando. So it was all in route, but we got there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>That’s quite a list</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, I’ll say.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. This one’s about your wife. You ready for this one?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I’m sorry? Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>This one’s about your wife. They say in the military, you great two for one. How did you do with the family, the military, and the traveling? How did she deal[?] with that?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, we were very fortunate. I’ve always felt that way. Um, my wife was ready, willing, and able for the adventure. She was a Navy nurse actually, when I met her when she was in college, and she was, uh, attending on a—a little bit of a scholarship at the end of her college tour, where, in exchange for tuition assistance, she went in the Navy as a Navy nurse, and in those days, if you became pregnant, they mustered you out, and so she was in for a little over a year in an half, until she became pregnant without first child, and had to muster out. So she had a little taste of the Navy, besides from the fact of growing up—not going up—but going to school in Newport, Rhode Island, as she did, which is where I met her, uh, she was exposed to all the Navy activity that went on in Newport, Rhode Island, at the time.</p>
<p>Um, so we enjoyed the Navy. Nobody enjoys leaving your family for six months at a time and Nowadays, sailors are leaving there families for even longer, but, uh, typical six-month deployment then was not something you looked forward to from a family standpoint-of-view, but she—she understood that and, uh, was a great Navy wife. You know, they say, uh, a Navy wife’s the toughest job in the Navy, and I believe it 110 percent, and our children, uh, my wife, and I always—we moved around a lot, you know? And describing where I went, it was here, there. We came back a couple times, but it was never back to back tours in the same town, and unlike some, who said, “Oh, I don’t want to leave Norfolk,” or “I gotta stay in San Diego[, California].” We were always up for that adventure, and after a year or two went by, the kids were always saying, “Where are we going next?” That sort of thing. Got a little tougher when they got to the junior high/high school age, but up ‘til then, they were always ready, willing, and able to—“Let’s find a new place to go.” And, uh, that was pretty good. I’d always come home, after having spoken with the detailer, getting the word on where we were going. Uh, I’d call home and say, “Honey, Are you sitting down?” And she knew that was the signal [<em>laughs</em>] that we were going somewhere. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Good. Um, well, what did you know about the region of Orlando and the military here?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I’m sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What did you know about the region of Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I didn’t know anything about it expect that they had a mirror of activity of Great Lakes on a smaller scale. Uh, Navy training activity, smaller in numbers, but the mission was basically the same, and I lobbied to get that job of Commanding Officer. I say lobbied. You know, I—you talked to your detailer and say “Hey. I hear there’s a job opening in Orlando. Uh, it seems to fit. I’m training in education subspecialist. I’ve done the tour as Executive Officer here. Um, and I hear the Commanding Officer tour for the Service School Command is open there.” I was fortunate to get that assignment, and again, uh, the only, uh—the biggest impression was if the kids were a little, uh, anxious in moving in that point in time, because they were in junior high [school] and getting little more into socializing. Uh, When I told them that we’d probably have a pool at the house, that settled the deal [<em>laughs</em>]. “Let’s go.” They were ready to pack and move—move down here. So I didn’t know much about it. That was it. Um, that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>How long were you here at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, we got here in 1988, and I retired from that job in 1991. So…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That was the tour.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, what were your overall impressions of the recruits and their training, during that time down [inaudible] your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, I thought it was terrific. You know, I was—really, there were three activities. You had the Recruit Training Center, You had the Nuclear Power School, and you had Service Schools Command. So, uh, while we did have some interaction in between all those activities, um, the sailors that—that I was seeing, uh, who were coming, from the most part, out of boot camp—uh, We did have some coming to advanced schools, uh, from the fleet, but the majority of them are coming right out of boot camp—uh, just top quality, you know?</p>
<p>People have said that the quality of our servicemen and women today are—is better than ever, and they have said it for years and years, and I firmly believe it. A lot of people who say, “Ah, it’s not like the old Navy,” and they talk about things like uniforms and discipline, which is always important, but the, uh, quality, the intellect, uh, the upbringing—if you will—uh, of the people that[sic] are coming into the service, I thought was terrific, and I saw that throughout my career. You know, you’re in that moving stream, so you don’t always see the difference, but when you think about it, and you stop and you think, and you say, <em>Look at the quality of the Electronic Technicians School, who are going through Torpedoman [Mate] School</em>—some of these highly technical courses—You have to really, you know, learn some significant stuff or hone their skills. Um, we had top-quality people.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Um, Daily life for your, uh, Navy recruits and your Navy sailors, that[sic] are there training for the schools—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, again, the people that[sic] were in my school, for the most part, were brand new, coming from out of 8-12 weeks of Recruit Training Center. So you still had to be aware of their conduct more off the base than on the base. Remember, these are young people who been cooped up at recruit training, where they didn’t get any liberty for months on end, if you will. Now, they’ve been cut loose, so to speak. Uh, yes[?], you go to class, but you had your weekends off, sort of thing.</p>
<p>I think, on the whole, uh, and really across the board, we had very few discipline problems—things of that nature. Again, in a—in an organization that size, deal with that demographic, there will be individuals who really weren’t suited for the service, or who had a momentary lapse in judgment, shall we say, and so that’s typical in any large organization. I don’t think it—it’s not so visible in civilian—civilian life, you know? If some fella who’s working on the line in General Motors [Company] goes out and gets arrested for DUI [Driving Under the Influence], or something like that, General Motors doesn’t really hold him to task. Well, the military’s a little different on how it, uh, wants its people to represent the organization.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Uh,couple of, uh, questions here, uh, for those who—who don’t know. Could you explain to us what the Grinder was?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>What the what?</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>The Grinder was.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>]. Well, I got very familiar with the Grinder at OCS, because the Grinder was where you—in OCS, you walked off punishment. I mean, it was the parade ground, and it was usually a paved a, uh—asphalt, uh, parade ground, uh, on which you’d have formal parades, but OCS—if you—if you didn’t make your bed right, or there was a dust bunny loose, or if your shoes weren’t shined, uh, when the other folks were going on liberty on Saturday, you were out there marching for two or three hours. Uh, And again, at—at boot camp, the Grinder was, again, the place where graduation was held, but again, uh, conduct infractions were marched off often times.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright, and, um, the purpose of the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> was, uh, a wooden replica, if you will, of a ship—a destroyer-type ship, and it had—internally, it had classrooms. Externally, it had fittings that you would find on, uh, a real ship. a life boat, or a whale boat, if you will, that could be lowered, raised, chalks, and bits, and lines, anchor chain, and halyards, and all the things that a sailor in—in the field of seamanship might encounter on a real ship, and so, uh, they can go on board that—that trainer, um, uh, and, uh, do the things that they would be asked to do out in the fleet, and they could also hold classes there. Uh, it was a—a fixture, if you will. A lot of people were sad to see it go.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. What kind of social life existed among the recruits on the base through the MWR—Morale, Welfare, and Recreation?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. Uh, the interesting fact is: when I retired from the Navy in 1991, uh, the first position I took as a civilian was director of the USO [United Service Organization], here in Central Florida, Which, in a sense, was responsible a little bit for the MWR. I mean, the base had its own MWR organization, which was really the root of it. Uh, when I was on active duty, I personally took advantage of it. They had great gym, and weights, and facilities, and pool—all those sorts of things that you would want on the base. They had opportunities for sailors to buy tickets to local events and theme parks—uh, the typical Morale, Welfare and Rec, uh, support system. The USO was there also, primarily to support, uh, the families that came to see the recruits graduate every week at—at, uh, the Naval Training Center, but, uh, the MWR ran some great programs. They always were there. I remember the people who were—for the most part, many were retired military who were running the programs. They had a golf course, which was, uh, one of the premiere, I think, spots in town, to play golf for the retired Navy community and active duty when they were on liberty. There was also a smaller course down by, uh—by the [McCoy] Air Force Base, or was then a civilian airport. They had a small place down there. They had camping gear you could check out. Um, Just, really great support. I think that was an asset for this—this community—the Navy community.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, did they have a local base newspaper?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>They did have a local base newspaper, and for the life of me, I’d have to think. I’d have to wake up at 3 in the morning to remember the name of it. I think it was <em>The Navigator</em> or something like that, and the fella named Jim Allen ran it, when I was there. He was sort of the—the editor. Uh, a great asset. I think it came out once a week, but Again, it covered the news, and all the good news, and, uh, that sort of thing. I—I got very familiar with the paper. I always wanted to make sure they—that if my activity had something to promote, it was in there, and it—they did a great job. It was a great asset.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br />‘</strong>Kay. After basic training, what other types of schools did you guys offer here at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. Well, Service School Command had four, uh, ratings, if you will—trade—Trade skills that they trained to. Uh, one was electronics technician, one was torpedoman, uh, one was quartermaster, and the other was signalman. So again we did that, and Nuclear Power School—they had two different, uh, schools, if you will: Nuclear Power A School, and I can’t for the life of me recall what the other division was called, but it was sort of like a lower division and an upper division, and their training, um—it went up to a lot of the skills and requirements of operating nuclear power plants. Uh, they had a lot of senior officers, who would go into command of nuclear powered ships, who went through that program. Very, very, uh, effective training program.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright, alright[?]. Um, did you have any shore maintenance that was done here? Did anything get sent back to have work done here locally for work done…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>You know…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>From the ships?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I don’t believe that we did. I think, um, most of any maintenance that went on was supporting, uh, what was happening at the base, uh—that sort of thing, but it wasn’t like equipment was coming back from the fleet</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>For maintenance.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zand<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Because that was all done at the fleet site’s shore locations, if you will.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What about airbases? Uh, ‘cause we have airbases here. Were we doing any work for the airbase maintenance?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, again, the Navy, um—a lot of that air training was done in Memphis, where a lot of the air raidings were done in Millington, if you will.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Again, um, if you’re talking about, like, [Naval Air Station] Jacksonville, which had a Naval Air Station up there and added their own—their facilities up there. So we really weren’t training aviation raidings.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>So our airbases here had been pretty much downgraded?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>The old airbases?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, Naval Air Station Sanford became the Orlando-Sanford…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Uh, International, uh, Airport. Um, uh, the Orlando International Airport was McCoy Air Force Base. Um, and, um, it’s always, uh, enjoyable when I drive down there and have a moment to scoot in by where the old [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress] is parked.<a title="">[3]</a> I think so many people in this community don’t know it’s there, haven’t had the opportunity to go down there where you can walk right up to it and kick the tires on this gigantic airplane. Up in, uh, Orlando-Sanford—which I’m sure the locals don’t know about—uh, there was a small civilian community, uh, that, uh decided to refurbish a [North American RA-5C] Vigilante, an A-5 aircraft, which is on display, uh, at the entrance to the airport up there. My wife and I had occasion to work with that committee and help, uh, put it in place, and, uh, that’s—that’s a sight, I’ll tell ya, and they’re working on refurbishing other aircraft for display up there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Great[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Now, I know we had Tactical Air Command and Army Air Force[s] Training Command here, at one time. Did you have an occasion to work on any joint exercises with them?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, that was way before my time.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That was when they wore the leather helmets.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>They have—the do still have the simulator training and stuff that goes on here with the [U.S.] Joint Forces [Command]? Did you…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, the, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Participate in any of that?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>The Navy—the, um, Naval Air Warfare Training Center [Systems Division]…<a title="">[4]</a></p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Here in Orlando, is part of the Research Park activity, the military’s presence, uh, joint services are there, mostly contracting for, uh, training and simulation work. That’s why all of these defense contractors have set up shop here in Orlando, so that they can have close act[sic]—access to those folks, but there’s a lot of activity taking on—taking in that area, right here in Orlando. Very important to the community.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Right. I know the, uh, base has tied to developing technology and simulations. Were you involved in any of the future simulation exercises that were currently…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, really…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Conducted by the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That all used to be located at the Naval Training Center, and, of course, as it expanded, uh, I remember—I can’t tell you the exact year, but it was when I was in service here that they built the [Luis] De Florez Center, here in the Research Park, and moved that operation out there, and grew it, and had just a tremendous expansion of not only that joint service activity out there, but again , the growth in the Research Park of defense contractors who have come here to Orlando, but I did not work directly with the training and simulation activities here.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Thank you. Um, what’s the hardest thing you remember doing while you were, um, a Commander at the NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Pushups.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Pushups? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Yeah, well, you, um—I think “hardest” is a tough word. When you say “hardest,” uh, you know, I—I’ll change it over to what was the most, uh, difficult, uh, and that was the discipline. Um, Having to, uh, work with young people, who, again, had a lapse in—in judgment and came before you, because of some infraction—some minor, some not so minor, but it was always, I say, a little disappointment—maybe a little heartfelt, because it—in the back, you’ll say to yourself, uh, <em>This youngster can do better. </em>You’ve tried to provide them and your team to[?] guidance. Everybody makes a mistake, once in a while, and—and while there were those who, you know, were more than willing to atone for their sins, so to speak, and get back on track. Eh, there was the rare exception who was not the right person for the service and you had to ask them to leave, and, uh, I think—so when you say what was the “hardest,” it was that. You felt like to some degree, you failed. Now, some degree you—you can’t change some people—that sort of thing. So that was probably the most difficult, really.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. From the most difficult, when did you feel the most proud at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think, um, every time you had a graduation, you know? Uh, every time you set sailor from your school out to the fleet, and you felt that they were—your team had prepared them, uh, very well to do the job, and that they would go out, and the people in fleet were going to look back and say, “Now, that sailor came from NTC Orlando. He or she was trained right.”</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, is there a particular story, um, from your time at the NTC that you’ll never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, there’s a million of them. A million of them. We used to—we had a lot of fun. I mean, if you don’t have fun—that’s not to say that every day was a good day, uh, but if you don’t come away, uh, with a balance sheet that says you had more fun than not, you’re probably either not doing it right or don’t belong there and, uh,every year, uh, the, uh, Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society would hold a fund drive. Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society is just what it sounds. It’s a[sic] organization—civilian organization—that, uh, provides release services for men and women in the Navy and the Marines who have had hardship. Whether it’s a house fire, a death in the family, some serious illness, they—they’re there to support with finances and services, if[?] necessary.</p>
<p>So every year they had a fund drive Throughout the Navy, and our little piece at the Navy Training Center broke down the individual commands, and what we did, for the time that I was there, we had a little carnival, or a cookout, or whatever every year in support of that, and my wife and I would put on a skit every year. So we did about three skits, during the time I was there, and [<em>laughs</em>]—and, uh, let’s see if I can remember them in the right order. One year, we did, uh a sk—it wasn’t a skit, but it was a song called “Lydia and the Tattooed Lady,” which [Julius] “Groucho” [Henry] Marx made famous, and I dressed up as Lydia the Tattooed Lady. My wife dressed up as Groucho Marx. The Navy band came and played the music.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>And out we went and did it for the crowd, and then one year, we did, uh, from, uh, <em>South Pacific</em>, uh—uh, the number “Honey Bun,” where—if you’re not familiar with it—this, um, senior sailor gets dressed up in a grass skirt and, um—and, um, uh, the Navy nurse dresses up as a sailor and sings about, uh, his girlfriend—his honey bun. So I dressed up in the grass skirt, and my wife dressed up in the sailor suit, and sang the song, and the Navy band played along, and then the last year we did, uh, “Get Me to the Church on Time” from <em>My Fair Lady</em>. So there I was in—in bridal regalia and she was, uh, dressed up as a, uh, groom going to the church, and we had great fun doing that. It made—let’s just say it made the base newspaper [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>That sounds wonderful.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, were there any other areas of the base that were of particular importance to you or the sailors?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, one of things, you—you know, everything was important, whether it was the commissary or what have you, but I remember Lake Baldwin, you know, which Baldwin Park is named after, if you will, and so many of the, uh, people who had the opportunity would go out there and fish on Lake Baldwin, or be at one of the clubs, whether it was the enlisted club or officer’s club, which looked out on Lake Baldwin. It was sort of, um, just the center of things, not necessarily geographically, but, uh, when you drove home, you went by it. That sort of thing. It was always there. The sort of Place a lot of people, uh, looked forward to seeing, or recreating on, what have you. The Maple Hospital overlooked Lake Baldwin. The golf course was off of Lake Baldwin. Uh, that sort of thing I remember very much.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, I know what you did when you left the Navy. You went to work for the USO. Do you recall the day your service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>The day my service ended? Yeah. Well, you know, like most senior people in the service, they have some sort of retirement ceremony for you. Change of command is what it really was, where, um, uh—a good friend of mine, uh, Captain Harry Smith—U.S. Navy retired, still here in Central Florida, uh,—relieved me of that job, and that was a very emotional day. It may not have be the—my last day—maybe it was the last day. Uh, it was just, uh, a very emotional time for me, um, in concluding that service, and reflecting back on all the years of service, all the assignments, the family, uh that sort of thing. So that’s my reflection on my last day, if you will</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Have you kept in touch with people from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, absolutely. Um, [<em>laughs</em>] there’s one warrant officer, uh, who served with me in Vietnam. He was the maintenance officer for the river section, and he, uh, sort of, uh, made it his business to stay in touch with, uh, those of us who were still around, and so, um, an email contact with him. As I said, Captain Smith, who relieved me of the Naval Training Service School Command job, um, was a good personal friend here. Dave Arms, retired Navy Captain, who was Commanding Officer of the [U.S.] Naval Reserve Center here in Orlando for a while, uh—still here, and, uh, we stay in touch. Um, you hear from some people every once in a while. One of the most poignant things I recall, uh, is: many, many, years went by, uh, after I had left Vietnam, and as I said, we lost a couple of people in our section, and I, over the years, received just a handful of correspondence from, uh, relatives of the people we lost, um, asking about them, and I responded to those people, and that was, in a way, staying in touch.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Was that hard?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, it—well, it was hard on—it wasn’t hard. Uh, I was glad to hear from them and to be able to tell them that, uh, their relative had served honorably.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, what values or characteristics do you believe that the Navy made, um—that instilled in you a great impression for the rest of your life?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think discipline, and I—I mean that in the finest sense of the word. Organization, uh, good order, wanting to see things in the right place, um, making decisions, you know—right or wrong. Somebody’s gotta make that decision. Uh, working with others towards a common goal—that sort of thing.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Your lasting legacy with the, um, NTC in Orlando and the Navy’s legacy, um, in Central Florida—what do you think, um, is the lasting legacy in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think the lasting legacy [<em>sniffs</em>] is a couple of different things. One is: people, like myself, who are here and remain here, who chose to stay for many different reasons. Uh, but we have a tremendous veterans’ population here. People who served here and came back—I see a lot of that up in Sanford. You know, people—there’s a lot of, um, people who don’t, uh, know about the Naval Air Station Sanford, and, uh—and I had the opportunity to meet a lot of them during the restoration of the vigilante aircraft. Boy, they came out of the woodwork, um, for that, and so that’s one, uh—one thing. I think what we’re doing at—at, um, Baldwin Park, with the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project] is a great, great thing. Uh, that will stand forever and, uh, when generations go by, people will still know that there was a Naval Training Center activity here, hundreds and thousands of young men and women passed through here in service to their nation. Um, you can’t do more than that.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>How do you think that the former Navy personnel would like to see or reminded, um, at the memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think that the Lone Sailor Memorial is a very, very appropriate, uh, recognition of what took place here over the years. I think, uh, there’s so much pride in—in veterans. I don’t care whether they did 20 years or a four-year hitch in the Navy. I have rarely spoken to an individual who served, especially in the Navy, uh, who didn’t come away saying “It was a good experience for me.” That sort of thing.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, when we’re looking at, uh, designing the [Blue Jacket] Park, what do you think they would like to see at the park?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, nautical—Things of the nautical nature. I remember, when I [<em>laughs</em>] was, uh—had command at the Naval Training Center, and one of things, I think—my recollection of up at the Great Lakes is the—by—by virtue of the fact that it was a very, uh—I don’t want to use “old” in the wrong word—but it had been there for…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Since 1903,<a title="">[5]</a> I think. They had accumulated a lot of maybe history there. Whether it was an anchor, or a gun, or what have you, and so as you walked around that base, if you will, a [inaudible] you saw a lot of these things And You knew you were at a military facility or a naval facility, and when I came to Orlando, one of things I asked my, uh, team to do was to bring some of those Navy artifacts to—to our activity, and I’ll never forget, uh, we brought two big—what we call “24-inch searchlights”—no longer in use in the fleet, but these, uh—If you see the movies and you see the big arc lights things searching for planes in the sky, and I, uh—I charged one of our officers. Uh, I said, uh, you know, “Get in touch with the—the old shipyards, who[sic] have this stuff in excess, and let’s see if we can’t get one.” They did. They brought it and it was mounted in front of the school. they got a, uh, uh, four-barrel—I think it was a 4-barrell—a 40-millimeter gun mount brought it down and got it there, and that was—when the base was closed, I think they transferred it, to my recollection, to the, uh, Oviedo High School and JROTC [Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps] unit, and they may still be there. I haven’t been in the back lot for a while.</p>
<p>So I think—and I remember that, uh, the torpedo—and it was a very strong World War II torpedo CO—submarine community here in Orlando, and I remember over at, eh, um—I don’t—it wasn’t near the USO, but it was somewhere over there in that vicinity, near the RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]. They had got these old World War II torpedoes and put them on display, and so I think, eh, you know, any of those type materials that can be brought, appropriately placed in and around Blue Jacket Park, uh, would really be a great reminder of, uh, the service that these people gave to their country.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>You’ve exhausted my list. Is there anything else you’d like to share with me?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Have a great Navy Day.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Aw.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you so much</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>I appreciate your time.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>I’m ready to stop recording.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: “There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at with no result.”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Naval Destroyers School.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> B-52 Memorial Park.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Naval Station Great Lakes was approved in 1904 and dedicated in 1911.</p>
</div>
</div>
A-5
advanced training
aircraft
airplanes
airports
auxiliary service
B-52
B-52 Memorial Park
Baldwin Park
basic training
Blue Jacket Park
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
Bronze Star with V Device
BUPERS
Bureau of Naval Personnel
captains
Carli Van Zandt
Carolyn Van Zandt
Central Florida Research Park
Combat Action Award
Commander Carrier Group 8
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
CVHP
Dave Arms
deployments
destroyers
discipline
drafts
engineering
engineers
ensigns
Fernando Maldonado
Garcia
Get Me to the Church on Time
graduations
Great Lakes, Illinois
Grinder
Groucho Marx
gunnery officers
Harry Smith
historical preservation
historical restoration
Honey Bun
Jim Allen
Julius Henry Marx
Lake Baldwin
Legion of Merit
Lieutenant Junior
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
LST
LTJG
Luis De Florez
Luis De Florez Building
Lydia and the Tattooed Lady
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
Mekong Delta
memorials
military spouses
military training
military wife
military wives
Milwaukee
monuments
Morale, Welfare, and Recreation
MWR
My Fair Lady
NAS Sanford
Naval Air Station Sanford
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Divisions
Naval Destroyers School
Naval Education and Training Command
Naval Training Center
Naval Training Center Great Lakes
Naval Training Center Orlando
Naval War College
Navy E Ribbon
Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society
NAWCTSD
NETC
Newport, Rhode Island
NMCRS
North American A-5 Vigilante
NTC Great Lakes
NTC Orlando
Nuclear Power School
nurses
OCS
Officer Candidate School
Officer Car
orlando
Orlando International Airport
Orlando-Sanford International Airport
parks
planes
preservation
Purple Heart
Queens, New York City, New York
RA-5C
RA-5C Vigilante
recruit training
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
Repair Division Officer
Research Park
retirement
Richard T. Sloane
Richard Tobias Sloane
river patrols
River Section 35
Rockbridge
RTC Orlando
Sanford
Santa Barbara
selective service
Service School Command
Service Schools Command
SERVSCOLSCOM
simulations
simulators
South Pacific
Surface Warfare Advisor
Surface Warfare Officers School
The Navigator
training
U.S. Naval War College
U.S. Navy
United Service Organization
USO
USS Blue Jacket
USS Garcia
USS Hassayampa
USS Milwaukee
USS Rockbridge
USS Santa Barbara
USS Wisconsin
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
Vietnamese
volunteers
Ward Room
wars
Weapon Systems Officer
Wisconsin
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/efd5049d910182e50916c3c85f53df44.pdf
b46eaec4a1988206e0a961500df2e88d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Philip Rogers
Alternative Title
Oral History, Rogers
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Philip Rogers (b. 1953), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1998. Rogers was born in the Bronx borough of New York City, New York, in 1953. He attended Lehman College for undergraduate school and Indiana University for graduate school. In May of 1978, Rogers was commissioned as an officer and assigned to teach engineering at the Nuclear Power School at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). After four and a half years, he became an Engineering Duty Office in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando on November 14, 2014. Interview topics include Rogers' background, becoming a commissioned officer, teaching at the Nuclear Power School at NTC Orlando, serving as an Engineering Duty Officer in Pearl Harbor, serving in the Naval Reserves, advanced training, the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em>, the Cold War, the University of Central Florida (UCF), his wife and family, and the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:03:05 Becoming a commissioned officer<br />0:09:02 Pearl Harbor, Hawaii<br />0:10:41 Naval Reserves<br />0:11:36 Advanced training and the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em><br />0:15:24 Hawaii<br />0:17:26 Making suggestions and dry docking<br />0:18:37 Transition from active duty to Reserve<br />0:20:03 Naval mentors<br />0:22:09 Ronald Reagan, the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crises, and Bill Clinton<br />0:24:39 Final years in the Reserves and civilian life<br />0:25:54 Civilian attitudes towards the military <br />0:26:48 University of Central Florida and wife<br />0:29:06 Terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001<br />0:30:08 Lessons learned from the Navy and benefits of joining<br />0:32:48 Migrating to Orlando and working at UCF<br />0:34:29 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Philip Rogers. Interview conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando, Florida, November 14, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
20-page digital transcript of original 35-minute and 37-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Bronx, New York City, New York
Washington, D.C.
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Jensen Beach, Florida
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Rogers, Philip
Hiltz, Killian
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-14
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-14
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
306 MB
196 KB
Medium
35-minute and 37-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Killian Hiltz and Philip Rogers.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Today is, um—it is November 14<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Phil—Philip Rogers, um, who served in the Navy from 1978 through—to 1998. Mr. Rogers served as an instructor at the Naval [Nuclear] Power School. Uh, he retired as a Commander. My name is Killian Hiltz, I am interviewing, uh, Mr. Rogers as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans Community History Project. We are recording this interview, uh, at Orlando, Florida. Um, thank you, Mr. Rogers. Um, uh, where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I was born in the Bronx[, New York City], New York, uh, in 1953.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, grew up in a modest, you know, tenant apartment. Went to public schools, um, two years of private schools, went—and then Lehman College, which is a ci—city school. Did that, uh—did that for, you know—through—and then I worked a little bit. Um, and probably when I was like 22, I went off to graduate school in Indiana.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was the private school like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It was good. It was a little more disciplined. The schools I was[sic] in was[sic] a little rough, so my parents took me out to a more, you know—less chance of getting hurt [<em>laughs</em>]—school. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was, um—what was college like, for you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I liked it. I was a commuter. I went back and forth on the train, uh, eh, because we didn’t have a car. So we—I travelled on the train to high school and to college for eight years. Uphill both ways—just joking [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, so I traveled that way, uh, and did my four years there, and I got a degree in chemistry from, eh, um, Lehman College.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, you mentioned that you went to graduate school, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your gra—what was your grad…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I got a Master’s degree in chemistry, entomology, from Indiana University. I was in the PhD<a title="">[1]</a> program, but when the Navy came looking for people, I kinda said, <em>Well, I wanna do that.</em> so I kinda left with a Master’s degree and went on to, uh, um—the, um—took the Master’s and then went on to the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>My father was a laborer, worked in a baker[sic], and my mother was just stay-at-home—stay-at-home mom.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Brother. Still have a brother. Actually, he lives in Orlando. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—your brother also join the service?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, no. He never did. No.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, did, uh—did anyone in your family before you, uh, serve as enlisted or commissioned?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, my father was—was, um, enlisted in, uh, World—World War II. Um, and my grandfather was in World War I.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what branches did they serve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Army. Both of them, Army.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did they see combat?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yes. Both of them did. Uh, my—In fact, my grandfather had a Purple Heart, and, uh, my father didn’t get a medal, but he had—he had some kind of foot injury or something, but—yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, uh, what caused you to become a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it was a—it’s a long story. It was like, um— let’s see. Indiana University—it’s kind of cold up there—Bloomington, Indiana. It was like six degrees below zero [<em>sniffs</em>], and, uh, the Navy had a little brochure says—saying, “Would you like to fly to Orlando on the Navy this weekend?” Free. Orlando, Florida. So I said, “Sure.” I had no intention to go into the military—zero. So I went, “Okay. Fine.” so I signed up, and then I had to go take some tests, you know—you know, academic tests and physical tests, and, uh—and then they said,”Well, You know, Admiral [Hyman George] Rickover,” who is the Father of the Nuclear Navy, “would like to interview you in Washington D.C.,” you know, “Would —you—would you like to go?”</p>
<p>So they sent me to—first, let’s go back up. Before I went there, they—they told me I was going for an interview. So they showed me the school—so they sent me down here as promised for the trip down here, so I went to the trip in Orlando, and it was great. [Walt] Disney World—they took us to Disney World and showed us—the Nuclear Power School, by the way, was in Orlando, at that time, okay? Just up the road here, by Bennett Drive. Um, so they showed me the school, and it was like 80 degrees. It was really nice. They hooked me in, so I’m like, <em>I’d like to go there.</em> It was—it was an academic job, because, you know, I liked teaching, and it was an academic job, and, you know, I would get paid a lot more there as a graduate student, than as a graduate student. So, uh—so I said, “Okay. It sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So then I went to Washington D.C., uh, for an interview, and, uh, one thing you got to understand that in that the nuclear—in the nuclear program, it’s kind of a select program, and that the admiral that is in charge—the four-star admiral is about as high as you can go in the Navy. He interviews all the applicants, you know, that—that—that come into the program, and so you go there for a day of tests. Take a bunch of written tests, oral exams. They ask all kinds of physical questions, and—and then they ask how to explain things and they do that, and at the end, you go see Admiral Rickover—Hyman Rickover. So I go into this guy’s office, and he’s a four-star admiral, and he’s sitting in a chair. Very little man, probably 5’5”, uh, white grey hair, he was about 78, at the time, and, uh, he—so I sat down. I had long hair, I was a graduate student, I had no inkling of military at all in me.</p>
<p>So I sat down, and, uh, the Admiral says to me, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me and the Admiral says to me— um, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me, right? So the Admiral says to me, “Wha—what’s that? What’s that pin on your, uh, lapel there?” So I took it off and I said, “Well, um, this means I’m a member of the American Chemical Society.” And he jumped at me, and he says to me like this—he says, “Let me see that blicity pin.” ‘Kay? I don’t want to put any expletives on this tape, but he—but, uh, he said, uh, um, “Let me see that pin.” so I put it in his hand, and—and he said—looked at me in the eye—and he goes, “How do you know I know more chemistry than you do? Maybe I should keep this pin.” And I said, “Admiral, if that’s the case, then you can get your own pin.” Then he threw is back at me, and then he says, uh, “Did any of the girls tell you that you were good-looking?” I said, “Sure. All the time.” He says, “That’s a proposition. You don’t even know the facts of life. Get out of my office.”</p>
<p>So this was my interview with a four-star admiral. So I said, <em>Well, I dunno. I guess I didn’t get that job. </em>So I Walked down the hall, and this captain, that[sic] went in there with me, said, “Congratulations. The Admiral selected you to be an instructor at Nuclear Power School.” So I said, “Great.” so I signed up, finished my—my dissertation for my Master’s degree, and then I, uh—I came down to Orlando. Went—went to some school—uh, Officer School—Officer Indoctrination School, and then I came to Orlando in 1978. I was commissioned in March of 1978, I believe, and, um, —then I, Um, uh, came to or—Orlando in May. Went—went to some—in the school—I went to the school in between then about six weeks. So I—I arrived down here in like May of 1978—in Orlando, and I spent the next four and a half years here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your officer, uh, training like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It wasn’t the standard training that—that you’d normally get. It’s kind of like training—‘cause we weren’t expected to stay in the Navy. We were expected to go in for our four, you know—our—our—our four-year promise, and then leave, Right? So it was very watered down, so to speak. It was not very rigorous as some—some. It was like the same training lawyers get, the doctors get, and—and nurses, the—the professional, you know—the training the professionals gets. It’s [inaudible] how do you—how you act like an officer, and—and, you know—so nothing—nothing too, uh, exotic.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your family and friends; reaction to you becoming a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, that was funny, because my father was enlisted and he—he had some grumbling about officers. He goes, “I remember—I remember this officer made me salute him.” He goes, “He was a big jerk. I hope you’re not like that.” So [<em>laughs</em>]—so he was a little—he was proud, but yet, he was saying, you know, you gotta be a little humble, you know, when you’re doing this stuff too. So—But I think he was proud that—that I went in there, you know, and—and did it. So, like I said, I had no— I just did it, because hey, it was great. I wanted to go teach and the Navy’s got this job to go teach, you know? I said, <em>I’m not staying in. </em>I said, <em>Honest,</em> <em>no way I’m staying</em>, you know?</p>
<p>So then I did my four years. I taught thermodynamics, I taught nuclear physics, you know, regular classical physics, I taught chemistry, radiological—all the stuff, and the thing about that Nuclear Power School: they—they teach you how to teach a class, you know? They teach you how to talk to people, how to make eye contact, how to go back and forth and relate information. I still carry that—that talent to this day, with how they taught me how to do that. So, it was really—it was really good. So I really had—it was the best job of my life. I mean, it was, you know, basically, a day job. No deployment—nothing. It was great for four years. You know, unfortunately, you know, after four years, they want you to leave, ‘cause in the Navy, you get to move up or you move out. So—so that’s what happened.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>‘Kay. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What happened after those four years?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, after four years, normally, you get out, right? And this was right at the height of the Cold War, ‘round 19—it was around 1982, and they needed people with engineering background—not necessarily ship driving experience, but with some engineering background, and some knowledge of chemistry, physics—To work on shipyards, to help when the ships—Submarines come in [<em>sniffs</em>]. They help the submarines get ready for sea, and—and fix them, and things like that—to oversee that. So they asked if, you know, I would like to go do that, and I said, “Eh, I’ll think about it,” and then they said, “Would you like to go to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and do it?” [<em>laughs</em>]. So I said, “Hm. Okay. I’ll—that sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So I did—I went into what is called the “Engineering Duty Officer Program,” so I went in—which is basically engineering. I—I was very restricted, because I’m colorblind. Eh, when I took my physical, I was actually—they determined that I was colorblind, so I could not drive a ship. So I was restricted as to what I could do. So, I mean—but I could do the engineering stuff, so I was—I became a Restricted Line Officer, which means you don’t drive the ships, but you can do a lot of other things naval officers do. So—so I did that.</p>
<p>I was—I went to Submarine School after that, I went to Engineering Du—Duty Officer School, and Nuclear Ship Superintendent School, which show you—show you how to manage repairs of a ship. Not that I would do the repairs myself, but I oversee the people doing it, right? And interface with the ship, as a—as a representative from the Navy to get[?] that, and I did that for about—about, uh, three years, right? And then—it was okay, but it wasn’t teaching. I really wanted to teach.</p>
<p>Um, so what—what I did after that time is: I—I—I got out of the Navy in 1986, but I stayed in the [Naval] Reserves, uh, as a—as a[sic] Engineering Duty Officer. Oh, also, on that time while I was on active duty, I got my Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins, which is, you know specialized in submarine repair, and then, after that, um, I got out of the Navy and tended my resignation, but I stayed on—I stayed in the Reserves, and then, I came down to, uh—went down to, um, South Florida. I took a job at a nuclear power plant. I was an instructor, right? Teaching down there, and I stayed in the Reserves, and I drilled for the next 12 years. I—I drilled, uh—drilled my—my—from Jensen Beach, which is about 130 miles from here, to Orlando. I drilled every week—once every week—and two weeks a year, and I—I went up through the chain there, [inaudible], and got my rank there, up to—and made Commander in the Reserves in 1994.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong><br />Uh, what, uh—what was your schooling like, when you were going through the Submarine and Engineering [Duty Officer] Schools—Oh, um, when you were still in the active? What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, that was, uh—it wasn’t—I mean, it was okay. It was a—was a—it was kinda challenging, because, Uh, you had to—you had to go and know—know how to—and they put you in a room, and they start leaking the pipes, and, you know, you gotta, you know, repair the pipe, so you don’t drown and stuff like that, and then, you know that—you learn a little bit about navigation and how to—how to basically, uh, go through it. I was a little bit senior. I was a Lieutenant when I went through, and most of them were ensigns that[sic] went through there, but, Uh, you know, it was basically how to respond to emergencies on submarines, and then, you know, dive the ship up and down. I was able to do that[?]. I did a—I was able to surface the ship and dive the ship. I did that several times on the simulator and—and in real life— in a real submarine.</p>
<p>You know, and one thing that I did not—I neglected to mention is that I was on a submarine for two months, as part of my qualification program. So I was on the <em>Nathan Hale</em>, and we went out—and I can’t tell you where we went—but we went out somewhere in the ocean, and we had missiles on the ship. Uh, we—that was a deterrent patrol that I had to go through to get my qualification, you know, to do that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So—and then—then that’s [inaudible]. Nuclear Ship Superintendent School is very technical. It was like how to ma—manage radiation. The Navy is very sensitive to—to nuclear safety and the shipyards have to be—everything perfect. So they want people who are going to follow the rules and know what they’re doing. So they send us to special school to—to kinda—to kinda help us understand how to manage this[sic] nuclear, uh, projects at the shipyard.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what, uh— was your, uh—the submarine’s class? Do you—do you know?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, it’s a—it’s a—it was an SSBN [Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines]. It was a ballistic nuclear submarine, uh, it’s since, has been way since decommissioned. It was a pretty old ship, when I was on it Um, so it carried <em>x</em> number of missiles, and, uh, I ‘m not sure if that is classified anymore, but it’s so many missiles, and what we did was just go out there and wait—wait for launch orders, which, thankfully, never came. So I never really fought in hot war, but I was in the Cold War, which kinda was preventing the big war [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was it like—what was life like on the submarine?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, it was very, uh, interesting. It was kind of lonely. Uh, Now, I knew I was only going to be on it for like one patrol, so it was okay, you know? It was interesting. Got to do some—some interesting things, but, for the most part, you really eat a lot. They have—they have—you can eat up to four times a day. It’s just like a cruise ship, but you work [<em>laughs</em>], right? So you have breakfast, you have lunch, you have dinner, and then you have MIDRATS [Midnight Rations] at night, depending on your shift. They always got meals going on in a submarine, so you can eat, eat, eat, and I actually gained 15 pounds, you know, on the submarine, you know? So it was a—it was a bit of a weight curve, trying to get the weight off [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh, you know, it was good. I got the up and down—A lot of stuff in the submarine, you don’t know everything, because a lot of it’s classified, like what they targeted—the stuff—I couldn’t see that. So I never knew where we really were at. So it was all a part of, you know—it was kind of a tense time, with the Cold War. We were in secret locations and stuff like that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was the crew like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Crew was good. I mean, they were—they knew I was a short-timer, so they—they kidded me around a little bit, and—and—‘cause they knew. They called me the “rider.” You know, and they said, “You’re just in your rack all day. That’s all you do. You don’t do real work.” but they were kinda—they were in a kidding type of way, right? And I was called—they called me the “assistant engineer.” So I—I—I oversee some training lessons and did stuff like that for them, but I stood the watch. You know, on the submarine ship, you stand a watch, you’re—you’re good, because, uh, somebody else doesn’t have to stand the watch for diving officer. I did that. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your time in Hawaii like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, it was great. It was, uh, beautiful—the most beautiful places on Earth. It’s, uh—nice mountains, and the job was pretty stressful—getting the ships out—because, like I said, this is the height of the Cold War, and the ships came in. they had to get repaired in a certain window, Because there are only so many submarines out there. One comes in, and, uh, they only got coverage for a certain amount. So you gotta get that ship out on time, and if it’s not on time—not out on time, some people up high up don’t get too happy about that. So we gotta make sure that everything’s done timely and safely. So not only—and we just couldn’t—since it’s a nuclear submarine—First of all, nuclear submarines can be hazardous in themselves, and you got reactors on ‘em, and you gotta be extra special careful with respect to nuclear safety, and so sometimes, some things take a little longer than you might anticipate. So, uh, you always have that—you always have that bal—and I was in charge, so if the ship was late, it was on me. You know, I had to answer for it. So...</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—did you ever have any incidents happen, during that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, yeah. Um, I was on one submarine. When—when I was in the shipyard, we occasionally had to go out ride submarines when—after repairing them, and then one of the hydraulic plants went on fire. So it was a submarine underwater, and it was on fire, but the crew is so trained. It was like, “Okay. Fine.” Just like training—t was no different than when we had the training. We went over there, <em>swoosh</em>, they put it out, and then we—we went on to eat for lunch. So it was like okay.</p>
<p>They were very seasoned, very seasoned crew. Um, the chiefs in the Navy—they really—I was an officer, but the chiefs in the Navy—they, you know—they run the show. They—they get the people to do the work, and so my admiration is for the chiefs, you know, [inaudible] folks. They’re—they’re the ones that make it happen, you know? We get the credit, most of the time. Sometimes, we get the blame, as the officers, but that’s kind of the way it is, but they’re the ones that—the enlisted guys—they’re the ones that[sic]—that[sic] make it work. So my father kind of sent me a lesson, when he said, “You’re gonna—you’re gonna be this hotshot officer, but you’re going to learn who does the work.” And I did.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, do you have any, uh, moments that stand out, during your time in, um, Hawaii or Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, well, one day, uh—well, I can say that, at the end, I—I—I made a suggestion to move the repair somewhere where it would be cheaper or a little more cost-effective, and—and still do it safely, and that—they—they actually listened to me and did it. So when I left—I don’t know how that went, but it wa—it did save some money. So that was—that was a good, good part of it, uh—good part of it, but a lot of that—I remember it was a lot of stress on that, but—but that was a good part of it, at—at—at—at the end there.</p>
<p>So—and I would still dock ships, you know—dry docked ships that come into the shipyard, and a dry dock is: you—you—you bring a ship in, and to work on the hull of a ship, you can’t—can’t be in the water, right? So you—you put the ship on blocks, you drain the dry dock down, and then you go into the ship, and you do what you gotta do, back—and back up. Then you put the water back in, and then you float the ship out, but Putting the ship on blocks is a—a, you know—a very engineering-involved thing. So, as the docking officer, I had to do the calculations to make sure the ship would sit on the block right and stay there, and do all those calculations and stuff.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> <br />‘Kay. Um, so, um, coming back now to, uh, your—your—how was your transition from being active duty to Reserve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, not really—not really, um,—because I never had too many deployments, so I was always with my family. Like I said, I had a[sic] atypical career. I [inaudible] —I had it good, really. Um, so I didn’t have a lot—other than that one deployment, right? So when I went to Reserves, you know, I really was away from home more in the Reserves than when I was active duty, ‘cause I would have to drive to Orlando on—on the weekends, And then the two weeks a year, uh, I mean, again, I was with a lot of engineers. I had in my group, we had like PhDs, we had, you know, professional engineers. All highly, you know—highly educated people that[sic] worked for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], or worked for the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center, or whatever, and then they did the Reserves stuff, you know, on the side, ‘cause they were—they had this engineering background.</p>
<p>So I didn’t find too much of a, uh—uh, a transition. I went from a kind of academic environment, uh, to that. Now, I had a little more experience than a lot of the Reserves, ‘cause I actually was a[sic], uh, active duty—engineering duty officer, and a lot of them just came in the Reserves. So I had a little—a little more experience actually being there. I had the qualifications for the Dolphins and stuff like that. So that helped me a little bit, you know, with getting my advancements, you know, as I—as I, you know, got promoted on. So I also had some good leaders that[sic]—that[sic] showed me the ropes in the Reserves. That—that really helped me.<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you remember any of those?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I do. I, uh—can I say their names?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, yep.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Or whatever?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I remember one, uh—one key person that[sic] was a—was a, eh—he was a[sic] Admiral: Rear Admiral Steve Israel. He was, uh, a great mentor to me. Um, when I first came in the Reserves, he kinda took me under his wing, kinda showed me the—the life in the Reserves, and, uh—and we worked together. I worked within several of his units, when he was a—When I met him, he was a Commander, and then, as he went through, he became Captain, and then ultimately, he became—became an Admiral, and I still, you know, am still in contact with him, you know, to this day, but He was very, very—he was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate, very good about dealing with people, and stuff like that, and another person gr—Captain Jim Tully. I worked for him, and I took his Reserve unit when he—when he left that unit to go to another unit, I took over for him in, uh—in—for him, in that—in that capacity. So he always mentored me too, and he’s—he’s actually the Mayor of Titusville. Yeah. So [<em>laughs</em>]—but He’s great—he is one of the—one of the best leaders I’ve ever met, and one of the most, uh—most—talk about people—talk about people with integrity, and people in political office. Well, he’s got political office, and I don’t know anybody with more integrity than that man does have. He’s just amazing. So we still keep in touch. Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you, um—do you have any stories or memories from your—from your time in the—in the Reserves that stand out?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, again, going back to the, you know—the enlisted people run the show. Uh, When I got—when I got command of my unit, I—I—I had a chief who was a Mensa [International]—high IQ [intelligence quotient] guy. Much smarter than I would ever be, and I asked his advice, you know, all the time, and that’s why my unit was so successful, and he helped me, give me advice on how to do things, and, you know, it went on from there. So I relied heavily on that. So I never—I never—I only made a couple of mistakes when I was a junior officer, thinking I knew it all, but that didn’t last out. Found out: the more senior I got, the less I thought I knew [<em>laughs</em>]. I knew more I had to rely on people that[sic] working[sic] for me. I mean, that’s the key to success. Um, and, uh—so—so that was very, very helpful.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, during—during the time in the Navy, um, did you, um—Um, what was—what was life like, um, in the [Ronald Wilson] Reagan years?<a title="">[2]</a></p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, life was good. Reagan was president—in fact, I saw Reagan come in the airport in Hon—Honolulu[, Hawaii], and, uh, you know, I am a big Reagan fan. Uh, and, uh, ‘cause I, eh—we grew up to kinda get the Cold War—and one of the beautiful things was when I finally got into the Reserves, there—there—the war we were fighting, we really won it, because even though it wasn’t a hot war, the Soviet Union collapsed. We stood up to them and they’re gone. Now, they’re rattling their little sword again, but—but, at—at least at that time, they were—we—we won that. So, I mean, I liked the war. I felt like we had a strength in the nation for—for—for that, due to Reagan and the buildup—the buildup he did. I just kinda make the Russians<a title="">[3]</a>—“Well, we can’t keep up with this.” So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> Uh, how did the—the—in that case, how did the, uh—the breaking down of the Wall in Berlin[, Germany] make you feel?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I thought it was great. I says[sic], “Wow. This is a great thing.” Because I grew up—when I grew up in the—in the [19]50s, the—the—I mean, I grew up during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we thought we were going to World War III. I mean, it was right—right around the corner. I mean, my father was shaking and white ashen[?], ‘cause I looked at him—well, and I was only—what? I don’t know. 11—10 years old, or something like that, and—and it’s just like—he’s shaking white. Something—something’s going on here, and—and that was the closest we’ve—we’ve ever come, right? And, um—and there were some things—even during the Cold War, there were some things that happened, which we don’t want to go into, but, you know—but, for the most part, there was peace, right? So when the—when the [Berlin] Wall came down, Reagan said, “Tear down this wall,” and it happened. So that was—that was a good thing, and then, when, uh—I would never had believed it when it happened—they said the Soviet Union collapsed. It was like, <em>Wow.</em></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, in co—and in comparison, how are the [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton years in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, uh, Clinton—I mean, to a—see, Clinton was—he— ‘90s, uh, I got my senior—I think he signed my, uh—uh, my—my, uh—my promotion to Commander, and also he signed my discharge—my—my retirement paper, uh, in ’98, right? So—so I have some good—good, uh, Um, you know—He treated, you know, the military well too, you know? He was a smart, smart guy. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how were your, uh, final years in the Navy, eh, eh—in the Navy Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Good. Um, I mean, it was good. Uh, I was like—I had command of the unit, and then I was traveling so much back and forth, it was like, okay, you know? I was getting up for Captain, and I just decided that was time to, you know—time to—I didn’t make Captain the first pass. So I said, “Okay.” I had another chance, but I decided, you know, to get out. Um, so I decided just to—to go spend more time at my other job.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What was your other job, at that point?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I worked at a nuclear power plant, teaching chemistry, physics. The same thing I did in Nuclear Power School, right? So—right.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>So what was life like after the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it just went from teaching for the Navy and the submarine stuff and still have the resources—so it was really—To me, it wasn’t an abrupt end. It was a, uh, gradual transition over the years, ‘cause I was, uh, in active duty for eight years, Reserves for 12. So it was kind of a long—and then I—well, during the 12 years, I had my civilian job. So I—I kinda worked the two together, you know? Worked the two together. So—and As, you know, eh—as I went through my job, and I got more senior in the Navy, more senior in the Navy, and then got up there. I mean, Commander is pretty high up, I guess. So, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how did the Americans actually treat you, while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The who?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>The Americans. The civilians.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The civilians? Oh, yeah. No problem. We didn’t have that Vietnam Syndrome, where, you know—where they—they spit on me or anything like that. Uh, I think today though—I mean, I think people are more appreciative of the military today, than they were even back when—when I was in there. I did used to do some recruiting for—for, uh, the Nuclear Power School, when I was at Nuclear Power School. I went out to the West Coast, and sometimes, I didn’t get a very friendly reception by the—the people on the campus at Washington University. Over there, they didn’t quite like my presence there. So—But I think today, I—I think the American people are more—are a lot more behind the troops. A lot more than compared to Vietnam [War] and even than when I was in. I think they realize what really they do for them.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any dealings with UCF at that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I did actually. I, uh—I took a couple of classes here in 1982, when this campus was just a few buildings. So Industrial Chemistry, I took a few courses, because I was living in Orlando, and, you know, I just—I just did that. It didn’t end up in degree—I didn’t end up in a degree. I just have the classes. I think I have like 15 credits. Um, uh, Dr. [Gerald] Mattson—I think I had him, and I think he is still here, in the chemistry department. Um, so, uh—so I had that, and, you know, we were just kinda starting out. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we—we came to UCF. She had to take an education course and sit in these little seats, you know, she could barely fit into it. It was kinda—we went together. She took a [inaudible] some education courses, and I did the chemistry stuff. So—so yeah. UCF is a little part of my time here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, you mentioned your wife. Um, did you—you met her while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Actually, I met my wife in Orlando, okay? Um, uh, when I was an instructor here, I worked with another instructor, and his wife worked at a school, and she knew somebody. So they set this up on a blind date, and, uh, I mean, that was it. We’re married for 34 years.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Fantastic. Um, did she go with you to, uh, Hawaii?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. You bet she did. Now, obviously—and, In fact, we were on the submarine. Um, they did a dependents’ cruise. Now, what a dependents cruise is: you can actually come on a submarine, right? They let the dependents come on the submarine. So she actually came on the submarine with her father, and we did, uh, some op[eration]s for them. We dove the ship, and surfaced the ship, and did all these things, and they got to eat.</p>
<p>You know, so she comes in—she comes into the submarine. Now, on a submarine, you gotta understand: there’s a wardroom, just like this, and at the head of the table, there’s the Captain, and that’s the Captain’s chair. Nobody sits in the chair. So what does my wife do? She comes in and plops down right in the Captain’s chair, and I kinda say, “I don’t [inaudible] you need to sit there.” [<em>laughs</em>] So I rise her about that [inaudible], but she is probably one of the few ladies that[sic] were ever on a submarine—a nuclear submarine. Now, Of course, they are getting women into the program, but at that time, you know, she—she thought was kind of fun. So after being at sea for a little bit on the submarine, And then, I—she went off, and then shortly after that, I—I came back home. So that was—that kind of fun.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>That’s fantastic. Um, um, how did the events of 9/11<a title="">[4]</a> effect you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I was pissed, right? I was really mad that we couldn’t—that something like that could happen here. Uh, and I don’t know. You can point fingers and blame, but, you know, I, eh—it—it’s just one of those things that we got to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Uh, it’s one of those—it ripped every American apart, you know, and—and including me. Now, I was actually retired already. Um, so I, um, was already done. Uh, I mean, I could have been called to active duty, but they didn’t. I’m too old already, I guess. So—so they didn’t bother, you know, calling me up, but, uh—so yeah. That was kind of…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you still have any, uh—were any of your friends still in the—in active…</p>
<p><strong>Roger<br /></strong>Yeah, I think Captain Tully, that[sic] I talked to you about. I think he was still in at that time, and, uh, then he retired subsequently after that. So, um, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was one of the most important lessons that you learned from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, leadership. How to manage people and how to respect people, and just, of course, you just gotta—because you got all the stripes on doesn’t mean you know everything, and, I mean, that was the lesson my father tried to let me know before I went in there, and I did some stupid things. “Oh, I am in charge, because I’m an officer.” You know, I only did that once or twice, and then I remembered that I had better relying on the chiefs more, because they’re really the ones that really kinda know what’s going on [<em>laughs</em>]. So I did that. So a little humility’s a good thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, do you have any, uh, messages that you would like to tell the young people of America today?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, the military’s a great way to go, especially if you got some technological talent. Eh, you—that—that Navy instructor program is a great way to get in, serve your country four years. You don’t have to stay in. You can teach at the Nuclear Power School, you can teach [inaudible] people who are really willing to learn, and they have to be, and they are really good students, and you—you get to teach stuff, and you come away with some great teaching skills that, at the end of it—that you can—that you can use anywhere else, you know? So, you know, To this day, I could teach anybody off the street how—how a steam engine works and so they would understand it. So, I mean, it’s am—an amazing thing.</p>
<p>So—so that’s—and don’t overlook that service. I mean, you know, my sons are likely not—not to go into it. I didn’t influence ‘em either way. One’s an engineer and one’s a—one’s a—a [inaudible] MBA [Master of Business Administration]. He’s got his MBA and he is a HR [human resources] manager over at Seaman’s[sp], so my sons are pretty successful, but I never influenced them to go one way or the other, but they’re proud of me that I did it.</p>
<p>Like I said, I did not have the career that some of these guys out there. They really put their lives on the line, and I never really had to do that. I was never shot at, okay? Um, but I served my country the best I could, you know? But the guys that really—the guys that went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s just amazing how they—they sacrificed—a lot of them—just so much: their lives, limbs, and everything else. It’s just—and—and—and did it, and they get—they get something—they get like their hand shot off, and they wanna go again, and go back and do it again. It’s just, you know—how do you—how do you instill that in our youth? That—that sense of duty. You know, it’s just a great, great thing. Not that they got hurt, but that they have this, uh—this dedication, and their patriotism for their country, and to do the right thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, uh, uh, um, what, um—How did you actually end up at UCF, after, um, your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Well, I, um—a granddaughter comes into that. I was, uh—worked at the nuclear plant for 25 years. I—I retired from the Reserves in ’98, right? And in 2001, I went back to school again, got a Master’s degree—another Master’s degree—online, um, for—for, uh, education—online distance learning. So I did that for about—took me about four years to get it. I got that degree in 2006. Uh, and then finally, uh—Uh, what—what was your question again?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, how did you end up at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. Okay. So I—I graduated—after 25 years, I, you know—I retired from—I retired from FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] and I got bored, okay? So when I got very bored, um, I decided to come back to work. So my granddaughter—we had a new granddaughter that[sic] lives down in, uh, Oviedo[, Florida], here. So they—I saw this job at UCF as a Safety Training Coordinator. When I’m training, it looks good to me. So I applied for that job. I got it, so we moved down here. So my wife’s a—a full-time grandma, babysitter type, you know—help out with the kid, and I—I come here. I like my job, I’m teaching, and I got something to do. I got a sense of purpose, other than sitting at home doing nothing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what year did you guys, uh—did you come here?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, June 2013. So I haven’t been here that long. I’ve only been a UCF employee about a year and a half. Uh, you know, Two years it will be in June. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, congratulations.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Um, is there anything else that, uh, we missed that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, I mean, I think you about hit all on the head. I mean, it’s all—in the military, it’s all about—it’s about duty, honor, country, leadership. I mean, everybody should kind of get that experience. Well, not for everybody. It’s not for everybody, and—and I don’t know if I would have gone in, if it weren’t for the nuclear program. I don’t think I would have enrolled to just go, you know, to drive a ship. I couldn’t have anyway, because of my—my color—they wouldn’t—they wouldn’t have accepted me in anyway, but because I had some academic potentials, they used me for that, right? So the Navy kinda used me for what talents I had, and—and so, you know, anybody can do that. Yeah. So it’s a great thing. My thanks is for all the people that[sic] have gone on, and—and help, and, today, that[sic] continue to serve.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, uh, thank you for your time. Uh, and thank you, um, on behalf of UCF and myself, for answering our, um…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>For answering our questions and having this, uh, wonderful interview.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your—your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Doctorate degree.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> January 20, 1981 - January 20, 1989.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Soviets.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
9/11
advanced training
American Chemical Society
Bennett Drive
Berlin Wall
Berlin, Germany
Bill Clinton
Bronx, New York City, New York
Caribbean Crisis
cold war
colleges
colorblindness
Commander
commissioned officers
Community Veterans History Project
Cuba
Cuban Missile Crisis
CVHP
dependents' cruises
deterrent patrols
dry docks
education
educators
Engineering Duty Officer
Engineering Duty Officer Dolphin Program
Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins
Engineering Duty Officer School
Father of the Nuclear Navy
firefighting
fires
Florida Power & Light Company
FPL
Gerald Mattson
Germany
Hyman G. Rickover
Hyman George Rickover
Indiana University
instructors
Jensen Beach
Jim Tully
Killian Hiltz
Lehman College
mayors
military education
military spouses
military training
military wife
military wives
Nathan Hale
nuclear power
Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines
nuclear power plants
Nuclear Power School
nuclear safety
Nuclear Ship Superintendent School
October Crisis
Officer Indoctrination School
OIS
orlando
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Philip Rogers
presidents
Restricted Line Officer
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Wilson Reagan
Safety Training Coordinator
September 11th
South Florida
Soviet Union
Soviets
SSBN
Steve Israel
SU
Submarine School
submarines
subs
teachers
terrorism
terrorists
The Missile Scare
training
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
UCF
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
universities
university
University of Central Florida
USS Nathan Hale
USSR
veterans
Washington, D.C.
William Jefferson Blythe III
William Jefferson Clinton
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/017149c91b62c7a4b14385f0171aea84.pdf
5e0b59b50bd857278237fec9d293f9c4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Gordon Pierce and Trina Cothrin
Alternative Title
Oral History, Pierce and Cothrin
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Afghan War, 2001-
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Description
An oral history interview of Gordon Pierce (b. 1930) and Trina Cothrin, who both served in the U.S. Navy. Pierce was born in Buffalo, New York, on September 16, 1930. He enlisted in the Navy in 1948 and served until September of 1977, during the Cold War era and the Vietnam War. During his service, Pierce was station on the USS <em>Wasp</em>, the USS <em>Coral Sea</em>, the USS <em>Franklin D. Roosevelt</em>, and the USS <em>John F. Kennedy</em>. He achieved the rank of Master Chief Petty Officer and earned a Navy Commendation Medal and a Navy Achievement Medal.<br /><br />Pierce's daughter, Trina Cothrin (b. 1958), was born in Jacksonville, Florida, on October 13, 1958. Cothrin enlisted in the Navy in October of 1979 and served until October of 1982, when her son was born. She was then in the U.S. Naval Reserve until 1993, when she joined the U.S. Army. She left the military in 2009, after serving in Operation Enduring Freedom during the War in Afghanistan. Throughout her service, Cothrin was stationed at Naval Air Station Miramar (NAS Miramar) in California, Naval Air Station Jacksonville (NAS Jacksonville), U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) in Qatar, and MacDill Air Force Base (MacDill AFB) in Tampa. She ultimately achieved the rank of Chief Yeoman.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Roger Jordan Sims on March 12, 2014. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), the Vietnam War, Operation Enduring Freedom and the War in Afghanistan, life after leaving the Navy, how Central Florida has changed over time, the legacy of NTC Orlando, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:48 Background<br />0:02:23 Enlistment and boot camp<br />0:03:57 Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:07:45 Social life and relationships on base<br />0:12:47 Hardest part of NTC Orlando, proudest moment, and unforgettable memories<br />0:15:16 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:20:46 Vietnam War and the War in Afghanistan<br />0:23:10 Leaving the Navy and post-naval life<br />0:27:23 How Central Florida has changed over time<br />0:29:36 Legacy of NTC Orlando and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:32:44 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Gordon Pierce and Trina Pierce Cothrin Interview conducted by Roger Jordan Sims at Central Florida Research Park in Orlando, Florida, on March 12, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims, March 12, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014915. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014914. March 12, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>.
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 35-minute and 10-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims, March 12, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014915. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Digital transcript of original 35-minute and 10-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014914. March 12, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Station Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois
Jacksonville, Florida
Vietnam
Naval Air Station Sanford, Sanford, Florida
Naval Air Station Key West, Key West, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Miramar, Miramar, San Diego, California
Pensacola, Florida
Afghanistan
Qatar
Creator
Pierce, Gordon
Cothrin, Trina
Sims, Roger Jordan
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-12
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-12
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
301 MB
195 KB
Medium
35-minute and 10-second Digital (DAT) DVD audio/video recording
21-page digital transcript
199 KB
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Roger Jordan Sims, Gordon Pierce, and Trina Cothrin.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay. Today is March 12<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Gordon Pierce and Ms. Trina [Pierce] Cothrin, uh, who served in the United States Navy. Uh, Mr. Pierce was an aviation metalsmith. Uh, Ms. Cothrin was an aviation maintenance administrator and yeoman. My name is [Roger] Jordan Sims. We are interviewing Mr., and, uh—Mr. Pierce and Ms. Cothrin as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at the [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Uh, Mr. Pierce, Ms. Cothrin, will you please start by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was born in Buffalo, New York, in 1930.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I was born in Jacksonville, Florida, in 1958.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>My parents worked for the State of New York. My father was, uh, in charge of the warehouse for all the supplies for a mental hospital, and my mother was a nurse.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And my father was, uh, a Master Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy—Navy, and my mother was a full-time, uh, mom.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, do you have any brothers and sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I do. I have, uh, three brothers and one sister. Uh, my oldest brother, uh, Tommy Foreman—he was actually stationed at, uh, McCoy Air Force Base, Uh, when it was an Air Force base, and then, uh, my younger brother Bruce [Pierce] joined the Navy. He and I joined the Navy together on the same day. Uh, He was in boot camp before I did, but we, uh—our paths crossed while we were in boot—boot camp together, and then later, Uh, when I was stationed in San Diego[, California], he came to San Diego for school. Uh, and then, Uh, when my husband and I were stationed in Pensacola, he also was subsequently stationed in Pensa—Pensacola. Then I have a sister named Tina [Pierce] and a younger brother, James [Pierce]. I don’t think I said my brother’s name, who enlisted with me, and that’s Bruce.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay. Um, when did you both decide to join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>My brother and I?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Both you…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>And Mr. Pierce</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I joined the Navy in 1948, after I graduated from high school.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, uh, my brother and I, uh, decided to join the Navy in October of 1979. Uh, uh, you know, he, uh—he had just finished high school, uh, the previous summer, and, uh, we both just decided to do it together. Um, I mean, I—I dunno what—is that enough?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. Good [<em>laughs</em>]. I don’t know how in depth you want me to go.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>No, I just…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong> Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Whatever—Whatever you’d like to tell us.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, where did you both attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I attended boot camp in [Naval Station] Great Lakes, Illinois.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I—here in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What were you trained for, uh—for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was trained as an aviation metalsmith in Memphis, Tennessee, and I spent, uh, um, about three or four months there, waiting to go to school. then I went to nine weeks of school to be an aviation structural mechanic or aviation metalsmith.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I, uh, was an aviation maintenance administrator. I went to school in, uh, Meridian, Mississippi,<a title="">[1]</a> uh, and that was a six-week self-paced course that I finished in a month.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, when did you both begin your time at the Naval Training Center Orlando and how did that come about?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I can’t remember.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. I’ll talk to mine</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And then I’ll help him with his. Uh, I went—started boot camp in December of 1979 and I finished up in, I believe, it was March—February-March timeframe—of 1980, and subsequently went to San Diego, California, for a month, and then, uh, went to Meridian, Mississippi, and back to San Diego.</p>
<p>My father, uh, was stationed in, uh, NAS [Naval Air Station] Key West, and in 1970—’74, we—we moved to the Orlando area for a twilight tour. My fa—grandfather had passed away and, uh, we moved up here to, you know, be with my grandmother, right?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Pretty much.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you know about the region, uh, militarily or otherwise, before coming to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>We learned quite a bit about it, because I had been stationed in Sanford, at the, uh, Naval Air Station [Sanford] there, for a number of years, and then I went down to Key West for shore duty, from that sea duty drill, and we came back up here, because we liked Central Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I—yeah, I lived here. So [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I knew the area.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, how long did you both spend at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I only did the, uh—spent the time there during boot camp, and my father was there for—from ’70…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[19]75 to ‘77.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Was it ’75? or ‘74?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I think it was ‘75.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, when you first arrived, what were your first impressions of the area?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce <br /></strong>Same old place [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] I was in high school, uh, so—I mean, it was okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What were your first days at the Naval Training Center like?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They were spent primarily training out to become a Company Commander at the Recruit Training Center [Orlando], and, uh, we went to school I think for six weeks, and we learned how to give lectures, and how to march sailors around, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Well, for me, it was, you know [<em>laughs</em>]—that first day, you know, you’re getting all your gear and, uh, you’re learning how to be a sailor, and, uh—so it was interesting [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what were your primary responsibilities while at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was the Correctional and Instructional Standards Division Officer, and we were, more or less, like a quality control unit. We would visit the various classrooms, and make sure the instructor was following the lesson plan, and completing all the things he had to do to get the point of the lesson across to the students.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, for me, I was a recruit. I was there to learn.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, what was your overall impressions of the recruits and their training during your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was impressed with the quality of all the young men and women that were brought into the Navy, and I thought the recruiters were doing a heck of a good job. There were very few people that[sic], uh, fell out, during my time as a Company Commander, and, uh, it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, I, uh—you know, once you get past that first initial shock, you know, and you—you get into your training group, I think everything went well. I, you know—I, uh, ultimately enjoyed the time I spent there. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What kind of social life existed among the recruits? How often were you allowed to go off base, and what places did you visit locally?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, I don’t think we were allowed to go off base until our training was completed. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, in the middle, wasn’t there a two-day weekend?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, no, I think the only thing we got to do was go to the visitors’ center and y’all were allowed to come visit us. That’s where the parents and families come—came, at the time that I was there. I do believe.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay, yeah. I remember that.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>That was about right.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right, because we were—Bruce—Bruce went into basic training in November, and then I went in in December. So over the Thanksgiving holiday, he was there, and then, over the Christmas holidays, we were both there, and that’s where that one picture came from, where we’re all four there on those picnic—at those picnic benches.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How did your training experiences shape your relationships with the other recruits in your class?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a team-building experience. It—it, you know—it drew you together. Um, you know, taught you how to work together, uh, to accomplish goals.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The—the whole criteria for the Recruit Training Com—Command, As far as recruits and Company Commanders were concern—concerned, was to build them into a team, and it was 180 people on a team.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Something like that, and, uh, that was the—the goal was drill into them that they had to work as a team. They would clean the barracks, they would march, and they would do all things together, you know, as a team, and it—it was a rewarding experience to see them develop.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Who did you both interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Uh, there were people who were, um—hey would come around and they would take the—the recruit Company Commander would take the recruits out on the Grinder, and he—there were observers, and they would mark them—see how the training was going, as far as marching and things like that were concerned, and they would come back and open ranks, and do an inspection, and—and it was all very, very formal and, uh—what else do you want?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. So, uh, my daily interaction was, uh, with our, uh—our, uh—what do you call them? Our, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Company Commander.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Our Company Commanders, and our, you know—our CPO [Chief Petty Officer] and then our—of course, our, uh,—the other recruits, and then you also interacted with, uh, other instructors, depending on where you were at. Whether you were in weapons training, or some other safety training, or—but for the most part you were with your Company Commanders, you were learning how to fold your clothes, put away your clothes, um, and…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Make your rack.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Make your bed a certain way. Uh, you were always having inspections. Uh, you know, how to wear your uniform, uh—let’s see. We went through firefighter training, and, you know, gas mask training—those kinds of things. They put you through your paces. You had your swim test, you know, uh, [inaudible], you had to float in the water for five minutes, uh, you know, you had to be able to, uh, swim from one end of the pool and back, you know? But, uh—so I don’t—I honestly don’t remember everything that we do. I do—I do remember the weapons training, the swim test, the marching, the folding of the clothes, the, you know—the bed inspections. You know, you’re getting up every day at 5 o’clock in the morning. Uh, you know, going to breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You march there, you march back. You know, they always had somebody up there, you know, letting you know the instructions. You had 20 minutes and 20 minutes only to, you know, get through the line, and eat your meal, and back to wherever it was we met to, you know, march back to wherever we were going next.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what do you remember about the instructors at the base? And what were your impressions of them?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I remember them all as being very professional, and they were t—their goal was to set an example for the recruits, [inaudible] in dress and...</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Mannerisms.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Mannerisms, and conformity to the rules and regulations. Look sharp, you know? Haircuts, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would agree with him. Uh, the two, uh, Company Commanders that I had were, you know—they were there to set the example, as well as enforce the rules, and, you know, guide us—guide us through the process, and, you know, test us more, test us less, you know, push us harder where we needed to be pushed.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And answer all the questions [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing you remember doing at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>For me, it was learning how to stand in front of a class of 180 people and teach them how to do something, you know? And, uh, I wasn’t really a formal instructor. I was a hands-on aircraft mechanic, you know, and I was taken from that environment and put in front of all these people, and, uh, it was a very different environment for me, so it was kind of a struggle at the beginning, but I worked my way into it, and I ended up liking it very much.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would say for me, uh—not necessarily the hardest thing, but, you know—you get there and you don’t know what to expect, and so then it’s learning to, uh, achieve the things you need to achieve in the time you have to do it, and So, you’re learning at a very rapid pace, uh, and, you know, uh—eh, so as—I don’t remember anything being [<em>sighs</em>] so terribly difficult. it was just a matter of learning it.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was the moment you felt most proud at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Graduation.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would agree.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>When your company pass and review, in front of the reviewing officers and the assembled guests and so on and so forth, it was kind of a proud moment.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It marked the end of the training cycle also [<em>laughs</em>]. You were done [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Can you tell me a story of a time at the Naval Training Center that you will never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Not really [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Not really [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Well, I remember the swim test part. Just floating there, and the sky’s blue, and you’re watching airplanes, and they, uh—and their, uh—whatever you call the smoke thing that goes by, and, you know, that’s what I was doing. Sitting there, you know—floating there, thinking about—I was like, <em>Okay</em>, as they ticked off the minutes, you know, to complete the test, but, uh—I mean, other than that, um, uh, I, you know—the comradery that, you know—that you had. I mean, once we graduated, we all dispersed, you know, a hundred different ways. Um, I think only one person that I went through boot camp with, uh, went to San Diego—I mean, he went to [Naval Air Station] North Island. So, um…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How would you describe to USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, and what was its function?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It was used to familiarize the, uh, recruits with, uh, how confined the living spaces were aboard ship and various aspects of shipboard living, and, uh, it was very helpful. It was a—it was a very, very, very large training aid that was very useful in getting your point across.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin <br /></strong>Didn’t we do battle station drills and those kinds of things on it, as well? I…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I, uh—yeah. I, you know—I don’t—don’t really remember. I—I think we did some sort of drills on the ship. Uh, It wasn’t, eh—it was more than just familiarization with a ship. They took us on board. We did things on it. I just don’t remember what.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was the official purpose of the Grinder and what was its significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The Grinder was a very large piece of ground, where as many as nine different companies could get out there and march around, and not—not get involved with one another, if the Company Commander was paying attention [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>But it was a big area, and, uh, it was very hot in the summertime and kind of cool in the winter time, but, um, it worked very well.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Cold and wet. I—I mean, because we were out their marching in the cold and it was raining usually, but, uh, it was—it was all about marching out there. I think we did PT [physical training] out there.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It was also used as a—if somebody was goofing off within the company, you’d tell them to run around the—the Grinder a couple of times as a—it worked off their exuberance, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /> </strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what other types of training went on at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>The—the [Naval] Nuclear Power Training Command was there. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>You mean other facilities? Or other things that we taught?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Well, you have the basic boot camp recruit training.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>And then what other types of training would also go on, like the Nuclear [Power] School?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Like the NTC part of it? Do you remember what else was out there, other than nuclear training?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I don’t know. It wasn’t…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>But there was instructor training…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And peripheral things like that, to where—to support the Recruit Training Command.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what were other areas on the base that were of particular importance to you or the recruits, and why were these places important?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, there was the Firefighting School, which was very important, because, uh, firefighting aboard ship is a[sic] immediate thing that has to be done and done well, and quickly, and thoroughly. I—I was always impressed with that, and there was the gunnery range.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[inaudible]. We went somewhere.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They had a…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>As I remember here, it was indoors, but in Great Lakes, where I went through boot camp, it was outside.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I believe it was indoors. I agree with you there.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I mean, I agree with him. The firefighting, you know—you go through the firefighting, uh, class, and one of the films they, of course, show you is the fire on the [USS] <em>Forrestal</em>, and that’s something that I think is, you know—they carry though. They still—I think they probably still use that as a training aid today. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Probably.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I remember the—what’s the oxygen—the liquid oxygen. I remember, Uh—I mean, that was pretty gross, and they showed you a film, uh, with regards to liquid oxygen and what can happen to you if, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>If it spills on you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It will freeze you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Very cold.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>So, uh—okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was graduation like?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, for me, it was, you know, uh, the marching, and the passing in review, and you know, the, uh—the end of boot camp, and then the beginning of the next, uh, stage of my career in the Navy. Uh, so it, you know—it was being excited and being sad that you’re leaving, you know, the people that you got to know, and then excited to move on to the next thing, and Pride, you know, that you passed. That you got through it.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>For me, it was saying “Hello” to a lot of different people, where every recruit wanted to introduce you to their parents, to their loved ones, or whatever, and it was, uh, an emotional day.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you do for the Navy upon leaving Naval Training Center Orlando? Did you receive specialized training after your time at Naval Training Center Orlando? And if so, where did that take place?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, I did not go to A School upon graduation of boot camp. I went directly to a squadron. I went to VC-7 [<em>Tallyhoers</em>] at, uh, NAS Miramar[, San Diego], California. It was an [Douglas] A-4 [Skyhawk] training squadron. Uh, and when that squadron decommissioned, I think the, uh—not even—less than a year—maybe ten months later, I then went to A School in Meridian, Mississippi, and then, uh, went back to, uh, VF-124 [Fighter Squadron 124] an [Grumman] F-14 [Tomcat] squadron at, uh, NAS Miramar, and...</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Were either of you ever in active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>What?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>An active warzone. Have you ever been in an active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was over in Vietnam on the line for about three years.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, can you tell me about arriving in the warzone, and what impact that experience had on you?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, you work 12 hours on duty and 12 hours off duty, and that just went on continuously. There were no weekends. There were nothing—you spent 30 days on the line, and then you’d go for a week in Olongapo[, Zambales] in the Philippines for liberty, and, um, it was pretty arduous and, uh emotional at times, because you’d lose airplanes and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, did you receive any medals or citations during that time?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I received, um—what’s the orange and green one?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It’s a Navy Commendation Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, and now, the green and white one is…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Navy Achievement.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Navy Achievement Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, I received both of those and a whole bunch of service awards from various places of—of the world: Korea, Vietnam, Mediterranean Occupation Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>North Atlantic? [inaudible]. Not—I don’t know if it was North Atlantic, but you were up there too.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And I crossed the Arctic Circle a number of times, but I didn’t—they didn’t give a ribbon for that. Crossed the Equator two or three times—maybe four, to get back [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>For me, I was mobilized, uh, in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Uh, spent two years at CENTCOM [United States Central Command]. Um, after that, eight months, uh, I spent in Qatar. Uh, it was a, uh, very interesting and rewarding experience, the two years that I spent, uh, mobilized. Uh, it was interesting to go to Qatar. Uh, I—that’s the second country I had ever been to, outside the United States. The first was Mexico [<em>laughs</em>]—Tijuana[, Baja California, Mexico]. So, uh, it—it was interesting seeing the culture, uh, seeing the area, and then, uh, you know, like my dad said, it was, uh, generally a 15-16-hour workday, but, uh, it was a good experience.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /> </strong>Uh, do you both recall the day your service ended? and what was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, I —yes. So I got out of the Navy, uh, October 1, 1982—‘82 or ’81 [<em>laughs</em>]. Okay. ’82, because my son was born in November of ‘82. So, uh, it was a sad experience for me. I wasn’t ready to get out of the Navy. So, uh, once my husband and I transferred to Pensacola, it took six months, and then I found a billet in a [U.S. Naval] Reserve unit, and then I spent the rest of my career, uh, in Reserve units. Starting out in aviation units, and into intel[ligence] units. Um, you know, and through the course of my, uh, 29 years in the—in the Reserve, you know—active and Reserve program, uh, you know, did my two years mobilization at CENTCOM, and I, uh, had worked at, uh, Joint Task Force Forge[?] [inaudible]. I did [inaudible], uh—active duty down there with them, when we were stationed down there. So, I mean, I had a very full and interesting career. So, for you, Dad, you retired in, uh, 1977.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right. I think it was September 1<sup>st</sup>, and, uh—just another day, to me. No ceremony. I didn’t have a ceremony or anything like that.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you do after you left the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I got a job in, uh, Sanford with a machine shop company, and they made, Uh, what’s called a “fax machine” now, but this was the very beginning, and it was a thing that went around in circles, and it printed letters, and so on and so forth. There was no vocal, but it was all—you could transmit a—a letter on this circular thing, and it went through the air somehow, and got there and…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Was that QWIP [Technologies]?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, QWIP.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>QWIP, and it was a company that…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Went through the telephone. You had to call up, get ahold of the machine, and then you put the thing in there, and then you turn the machine on, and it would transmit the piece of paper. Very archaic, really.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Compared to today.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, for me, um, I worked two jobs. So I had my Reserve career and then I had—I worked for the Army since 1993. Uh, and that’s when I started working full-time again.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Have either of you kept in touch with anyone from the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I haven’t.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>No, I—me neither. No.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The discipline, the organization, and the orientation of doing your—having to plan out everything and having to work your way through it. It was an organizational—a very strict class in organizational responsibilities, and —get ‘er done.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right. Uh, you know, I would have to say—I would have to go to, you know, uh, something similar. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And say, I mean, the caliber of people that were there that you worked with, uh, the things that you did. Uh, I mean, it was just a—it was a great experience. Um, I mean, I, you know, would recommend it to other people. to young folks that—if they don’t really, you know, have it figured out—what it is that they want to do, uh—spend four years in the Navy and—or any service—and, uh, see the world a little bit, and, uh, meet people from all walks of life. It’s a big melting pot. You learn a lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>You grow up in a hurry.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How has, uh, Central Florida changed since the time you spent here?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>A lot [<em>laughs</em>]. A lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /> </strong>Probably expanded three- or four-fold, population-wise. We—we retired in ‘77.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>You retired in ‘77. Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>So we were transferred here in ’75, I think, from Key West, Florida, and, uh, from the day I retired ‘til today, the place has—has really grown, and the population has…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Probably [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Doubled—tripled, probably</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Quadrupled, probably.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I think they can remember when, you know—I can remember my mom and dad talking about when [Florida State Road] 436 was a dirt road.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay[?].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It only went part way down to the airport and then it was a dirt road.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>My grandparents—I don’t know when my grandparents moved here. Was it in the ‘50s or the ‘60s that they retired down here?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I think in the late ‘50s.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>The late 50s. They came down, um, from New York. So as kids, you know, we were coming—wherever we lived—because I grew up here in Florida, Uh, there was only one period of time when he was stationed outside of Florida, from the time I was born. So we’ve lived—I was born in Jacksonville. We’ve lived in Pensacola, Key West, and Central Florida. So we’ve done the gambit. So Florida—I’m a Floridian [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The squadron I was in was stationed in Sanford, but it deployed on a carrier that was home-ported in San Diego. So it would take three days to airlift the squadron out, and then three days to bring us back. When you got home finally, it was—it was, uh—I can’t think of the word I want to say. You had to move a lot of gear around to get your job done when, uh—when you were aboard ship.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a logistics, uh, exercise.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What do you think is the lasting legacy of the Naval Training Center and the Navy in general in the Central Florida region?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I really don’t know. I’m sure it has a[sic] historical impact, but other than that, I really don’t know.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>As far as today, the impact of the base, because it—it closed in the ‘80s? ‘90s? I don’t remember when it closed. Uh, But I mean—I think it had, uh, an impact while it was here. Uh, and it—and it had an impact for some time after it closed. Um, certainly, you know, you go there and look at Baldwin Park, you know, there’s no real sign that the Naval Training Center or Recruit Training Command, uh, ever existed. I mean, there’s little, little things, and I think that’s the purpose of the whole, uh, Lone Sailor, uh, Memorial [Project]—is—is to try to bring back something here in the Orlando area to remind folks that, hey, at one point in time, there was this, uh, Naval Training Center here and Recruit Training Command, and bring back some of that heritage.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>One of the things that I remember is: on Friday, up over the weekends, maybe half a dozen companies would get liberty and the seet[sic]—and the streets were just lined with sailors, and it would—it was just amazing, and then all of a sudden, they were gone, you know? And that—that was a visual impact I’m sure for a lot of these civilians around here.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they visit the site of the base and the Lone Sailor Memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They would probably like to take their parents or guests around and point out various things that were helpful in their training, and, uh, show the Grinder and so on and so forth, where we marched, and the various [inaudible] buildings where they went to school.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Well[?], they’re not there anymore though [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, that’s true.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I mean, I guess part of the Grinder is still there. They use it as a—there—there’s[sic], uh, park-like areas in part of it. , uh, I mean, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> is gone. It would have been nice if something like that had stayed, but it didn’t. Uh, and it—and I’m sure it had to do with upkeep, as well. Um, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The <em>Blue Jacket</em> was a model ship, right?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay. It was just—it wasn’t very big. It was about half as big as a destroyer, maybe a little bit smaller, but it, uh—it served as a good training aid. It was a good visual thing for the recruits to see their first ship or something like that [<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Is there anything you would like to share about your naval experience?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I would recommend it for everybody. It was a wonderful experience, as far as I’m concerned. You can’t imagine how precise everything is—the way they start flying in the morning and end up in the evening, after dark generally. Sometimes they flying around the clock, but an aircraft carrier is one of the busiest places in the world, but every hour—hour and a half—you’re launching or recovering airplanes. That goes on all day long. Sometimes 24 hours a day, depending on what kind of a mission or training exercise you’re in. There’s always—around the carrier, there’s usually a cruiser and at least [<em>coughs</em>] five or six destroyers, and the destroyers act as plane guards, in case one of the planes goes into the water. They rescue the pilot, if they get there before the helicopter and so on and so forth, but, uh, before the helicopter, they were primarily the—the guy that pulled the man out of the water that was in there, but, uh, I wouldn’t trade it.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>What was the question again? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims <br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>If there was just anything else you’d like to share about your experience in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Again, like my father said, I would recommend it. Uh, certainly for, you know—it’s just a broadening experience for anybody. Uh, and there’s no better way to have a job, travel, and kind of—you’re taken care of. Uh, So I had an incredible career for, uh, nearly 30 years. I retired in, uh, 2009. I went into the Navy in 1979. So, um, I loved it, um, like[?] my dad.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Well, thank you for talking with me today and for sharing, uh, your experiences with me.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Naval Air Station Meridian.</p>
</div>
</div>
A School
A-4
Afghanistan
aircraft carriers
airplanes
Arctic Ocean
aviation maintenance administrators
aviation metalsmiths
aviation structural mechanics
Baldwin Park
basic training
boot camps
Bruce Pierce
Buffalo, New York
CENTCOM
Chief Yeoman
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commander
Correctional and Instructional Standards Division Officer
CVHP
Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
education
Enduring Freedom
enlistment
F-14
facsimile
fax
Fighter Squadron 124
firefighting
Firefighting School
fires
Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 58
Florida State Road 436
Global War on Terror
Gordon Pierce
graduations
Great Lakes, Illinois
Grinder
Grumman F-14 Tomcat
GWOT
instructors
Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
Jacksonville
James Pierce
Key West
liquid oxygen
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
MacDill AFB
MacDill Air Force Base
Master Chief Petty Officer
memorials
Memphis, Tennessee
Meridian, Mississippi
military education
military training
Miramar, San Diego, California
NAS Jacksonville
NAS Key West
NAS Meridian
NAS Miramar
NAS Sanford
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Key West
Naval Air Station Meridian
Naval Air Station Miramar
Naval Air Station Sanford
Naval Nuclear Power Training Command
Naval Station Great Lakes
Naval Training Center Orlando
NAVSTA Great Lakes
Navy Achievement Medal
Navy Commendation Medal
NS Great Lakes
NTC Orlando
Nuclear Power School
OEF
Olongapo, Philippines
Operation Enduring Freedom
orlando
Pensacola
Philippines
planes
Qatar
QWIP Technologies
recruit training
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Recruit Training Command
recruits
Republic of the Philippines
Roger Jordan Sims
RTC Orlando
sailors
Sanford
Sims, Roger Jordan
Skyhawk
SR-436
State of Qatar
swimming
Tampa
terrorism
terrorists
Tomcat
Tommy Foreman
Trina Cothrin
Trina Pierce
U.S. Army
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
United States Central Command
USCENTCOM
USS Blue Jacket
USS Coral Sea
USS Forrestal
USS Franklin D. Roosevelt
USS John F. Kennedy
USS Wasp
VA-72
VC-7 Tallyhoers
veterans
VF-11 Thunderbolt
VF-124
VF-171
Vietnam War
VR-58
War in Afghanistan
War on Terror
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c65c2937c8b431b9f072c42016c0f815.pdf
e901832282467dfc3568e3bddb15ba8d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Robert Matthews
Alternative Title
Oral History, Rob Matthews
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Robert Matthews (b. 1957), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War era. Matthews was born in Lake Wales, Florida, on May 23, 1957. He enlisted in the Navy in February of 1977 and was discharged in July of 1984. During his service, Matthews was stationed at Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando), Naval Air Station Memphis (NAS Memphis), and Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment (NAMTRADET) at Naval Air Station Jacksonville (NAS Jacksonville). He also served in Attack Squadron 174 (VA-174) and VA-87. Matthews was a Master Training Specialist and received an Expeditionary Medal.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Mark Miller on March 28, 2014. Interview topics include Matthews' background, enlistment, training at RTC Orlando, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, the Base Realignment and Closure Commission (BRAC), Matthews' naval career, NAWCTSD, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:39 Enlistment<br />0:03:05 Attending boot camp at Recruit Training Center Orlando<br />0:05:53 First impressions of and days at Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:08:13 Recruits, instructors, and military leave<br />0:14:37 Primary responsibilities at RTC Orlando<br />0:16:24 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em><br />0:18:32 Memories and proudest moment<br />0:20:40 The Grinder, marching, and physical fitness<br />0:24:30 Selecting a boot camp<br />0:26:34 Military leave and the Orlando area<br />0:28:02 Base Realignment and Closure Commission<br />0:32:56 Career in the Navy and the Naval Reserves<br />0:37:01 Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division<br />0:43:55 Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Abstract
Oral history interview of Robert Matthews Interview conducted by Mark Miller at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division in Orlando, Florida, on March 28, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
21-page digital transcript of original 47-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Lake Wales, Florida
Recruit Training Center, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Memphis, Millington, Tennessee
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Cecil Field, Duvall County, Florida
Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Jacksonville, Florida
Creator
Matthews, Robert
Miller, Mark
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-28
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-28
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
41.3 MB
215 KB
Medium
47-minute and 23-second Hi8/MP4 audio/video recording
21-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mark Miller and Robert Matthews.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay, okay. This is an oral history of Rob[ert] Matthews, an RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando] graduate and naval veteran. The interview is conducted by Mark Miller, graduate student from UCF [University of Central Florida], working in conjunction with the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial [Project] committee. Uh, it is March 28<sup>th</sup>, 2014, and we are in Mr. Matthew’s offices at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], um, in[sic] the [12201] Science Drive—Orlando. Okay. Um, some of our first questions are background questions. Um. So whe—when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I was born in a little town not far from here—a little town called Lake Wales. I was born in[sic], uh, May 23<sup>rd</sup>, 1957.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. What do[sic] your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, my father was in construction, um, and my mother was in the medical field, working as an office manager.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I have four sister—four sisters. They were, um, all born in Lake Wales, as well, and two of them still live in Florida, and two live elsewhere.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>The elementary school is there in Lake Wales. A little school called Spook Hill Elementary [School]. Uh, and junior high and high was Lake Wales Junior High [School] and Lake Wales High School. So it was a small town about 8,500 people.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, so you were home-grown [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Homegrown.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, I went to college for a little bit. Um, worked locally in the town there, right at the high school, and, um, after about a year of that, I decided I wanted to go in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. So you joined a year after high school, and, uh, why did you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] I guess I came from a Navy family. My, uh—in a sense—my father was a in the Navy during World War II for a short period of time. My uncle was—also served in World War II in the Navy. I had a cousin that went to the naval academy. I had an uncle that flew for the Navy, as well. Uh, and I had a brother-in-law that went to the Navy, prior to me going in the Navy. He actually went through RTC Orlando, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, wow. So one of our questions was why the Navy over other branches, and I think[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I think I explained that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Yes, I think I can easily see that. Yes. Navy family. Alright. Um, so how did your family feel about you joining?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, mixed emotions, I guess. A little bit. Uh, I think they were glad to see me join such a great organization. Uh, I think, uh, my mother would have liked me to have waited and get a commission instead of being enlisted, but I was a little impatient, so I decided to go for it and do it anyway.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>RTC Orlando.</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>Okay, and what were you trained to do in your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, I was a, uh—excuse me—an aviation Electronics Technician, uh, while I was in the Navy, which allowed me to work on the electronics on both the [Ling-Temco-Vought] A-7 [Corsair II] and [Lockheed] P-3 [Orion] aircraft.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So, uh, wha—what was your experience like at RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>It was different. Um, probably the best council I got from, uh, my brother-in-law prior to going over there was: just remember to treat, uh—to treat it as somewhat of a game, and that, uh—don’t take the things that you’re being told too serious, um, and what he meant by that was—not that the training wasn’t important—it was critical for my own safety, as well as, uh, helping the country, but some of the things that you have to go through in boot camp—those stereotypical things that we have to do to make sure that we’re instilling discipline in our—in our young troops. He told me not to take that too serious, and that was probably the best council I got, uh, as I went through boot camp—was just remember that they’re sending me through certain experiences so I learn from it and that’s not really the way things are.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what were some of those experiences?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, um, back in those days, uh, it was important to, uh, get young people’s attention, and the way you did that was you physically exhaust them every opportunity you have, and you try to mentally change the way they see the world. So we would—we would do endless bouts of inspections, and calisthenics, and things of that nature, and it really was to try to, uh, instill discipline that maybe not all of us had when we went there. So we did some pretty silly things over—as I look back now, um, seemed awfully important to me at that point, but now, it’s— I’m not sure that having a spit shine on my shoes and my gig line lined up perfectly was, uh, the most necessary thing, but I understand the purpose of it. The purpose of it was: I learned to take, uh, great care and attention to detail, uh, to understand discipline and the meaning of it. So, uh, it seems silly, but I understand why they did it.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So what was your first impression of the base?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, it was a little confusing, uh, you know, I lived in Lake Wales, uh, which was—it’s only 60 miles from Orlando. So when I joined the Navy, uh, my first, uh, impression of being part of, uh, the Navy or [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense] or U.S. Government was to get from Lake Wales to Orlando, I needed to go via Coral Gables and Miami. So I left Lake Wales, instead of heading, uh, northeast to Orlando, I went west to Tampa to catch an airplane to fly south to Coral Gables, to being docked there, stuck on a bus, driven back north, and I think we got on base probably about 11-11:30 at night and it was dark. Um, probably a little bit frightened, um, because, just like you see in the movies, as soon as we got off the bus people were yelling at us [<em>laughs</em>]. So, uh, by the time I hit the base, I was pretty tired and I was pretty scared, so [<em>laughs</em>] it was a good experience to start with [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]So what were your first days of service like?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, it was, uh, a lot of confusion. A lot of being told exactly where to go, and the best thing to do was just listen. Uh, we were put in lines, um, wherever we went. We were—got our haircuts, our uniforms, a place to stay, were told what to do what not to do, when to do it. Uh, we were led around for the first few days. It was a good thing, because it was—it was a real culture shock for—for most of us. Um, but I—I would say that probably that—that, um—that rigor that they sent us through the first few days was probably the best way to get over that culture shock. So I didn’t have to do a lot of thinking at first. Just reacting to what they did to us, and they really did start forming us as a team. I was in a group of folks. There—there were 80 of us in our training unit, as we called them back then. Didn’t know, uh—79 brand new people I didn’t know before. Now I get to spend the next eight weeks with them and they became very close in many ways.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>Now—yes. You’ve mentioned to us quite a few times—I was wondering what some of the fellow recruits were like? I mean, were they from all over and…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>They were. They were from all over the country. Um, and it—it was kind of interesting, ‘cause I was thinking about this: these were people that, um, like myself—that maybe grew up in a small town. Um, that came from a fairly stable, uh, family life, to, uh, folks that didn’t have that benefit. They may have come from middle of, uh, a city—broken family. Uh, and they brought the issues with that, um, and they tossed us all together, um, from all—from all over the country. People from Florida, Texas, New York. Uh, you could almost—although there probably wasn’t somebody from every single state in my group of 80—but a lot of the states were represented. Um, and, uh, I laughingly say there was[sic], you know, 80 people with probably 90 personalities in—in that group of folks.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] some of the people handled it very well, and some of the people didn’t, and we started with 80. We didn’t end with 80. Although back in those days, Navy boot camp was not seen as one to the more rigorous—we certainly weren’t Marines. Uh, but There were people that just could not handle the, uh—the stress that we were put through, and you wouldn’t have guessed it, uh, from the first day. I think you’d have a very difficult time—maybe experienced person wouldn’t[?]—but you’d have a hard time looking around your group of folks that you’re—you first get your haircut with and first get your uniforms with, thinking, <em>This person’s going to make it. That person’s not.</em> Because we were consistently surprised by the people that did drop out. We thought they were the strong folks, but it turned out maybe they weren’t. So it was an interesting experiment to go through and kind of watch it.</p>
<p>Once more, I’ll go back to what my brother-in–law said. I kept in my mind, when <em>this guy’s yelling at me, it’s not because he doesn’t like me. It’s just part of what’s going on.</em> So I never like[?] let that get to me. So I was able to observe other people a little bit better, because I wasn’t too worried about my own self, I guess. So it was—it was quite an experience.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Do you keep in touch with some of these people?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, no.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, I can remember—of those 80 people, I can remember one guy’s name. Um, and I saw him a couple times—two or three years after boot camp, and that’s it. I remember another gentleman’s first name and that’s it. Uh, and that’s all I can remember, but the one person I can remember very clearly was our Recruit Training Commander. Senior Chief Soaper, and that was in the days that the Navy allowed beards, and Senior Chief Soaper, um, was a tall thin man, dark hair, with a goatee and devil’s eyes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>And I remember him clearly to this day.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>30 or 40 years later, or so.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>He’d probably be very proud that you said that about him.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>He did a lot of good things for a lot of us. We didn’t think so at the time, but [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Um, you said that there were 80 people in—in your training group, but that was really quite a large facility. Uh, you were involved probably with other groups also, right?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>To—to some extent. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] Being it was 80, it was well orchestrated, so that we saw a lot of the other units as were marching by each other. We see them in the chow hall, but you stay together as a unit. Um, when we went to the chow hall, we sat together, we ate together, and we left together. We didn’t mix, um, and not that we weren’t interested—because this was—this the first years of having, uh, females in the Navy, and—but at that time it was still segregated—that the boot camps did not mix these training units with male and female. so we were there and I—I—hopefully, someone knows the numbers of the—of training units and the training groups that they had—power cells—training units, at that time, but if I had to guess, there was 20 or 30 units going on at a time, easy, of which maybe two were female. So, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—and even that was separated. So the chow hall had two sides, and I was in the side that was—it was all males. So we never even saw any females the whole time we were there, just about.</p>
<p>Once in a while we’d pass them, but the groups didn’t mix at all so I—I couldn’t even—I probably wouldn’t even recognize one of those people that were in a different unit, because there so separated. You go to classes together, in your training unit, um, and occasionally there may be a training event where they’d mix two units, uh, but not very often. So you really didn’t—really didn’t mix too much at all.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, you must have done some mixing off-base though?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] There was no-off base. Um, when you start boot camp [<em>clears throat</em>], um, you start day one, you’re in boot camp ‘til you graduate, with two exceptions: the last week, they allowed us to—they’d load us up in buses and they took us to SeaWorld [Orlando] for the day. We’re there in our whites. Uh, we’ve been given the, uh, strong instructions of how we will operate while we’re at SeaWorld, because we represent the Navy for the first time in our uniform. So we, um—we—it was very stunted, if you will, what we could do at SeaWorld.</p>
<p>So that was one day, and then the only other time that, uh, we had any outside access to the base was the day we graduated. We didn’t actually transfer ‘til the following day. That night we had a couple hours of military leave or liberty that we were allowed to go out of town[?], once we were in a very controlled environment. So other than that, no. when I transferred out of Orlando, I was gone. Uh, so my time at boot camp—the eight weeks I was there—one day in SeaWorld and one night on liberty, and I actually spent that with my family, because they came up, uh, and I spent a couple hours with them. So that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>You didn’t get off base.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Hm. So what were your primary responsibilities, uh, when you were RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, surviving was my primary, uh, responsibility. I— was not in a leadership position at, um—at boot camp at all. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] what I was supposed to do was: I was supposed to learn how to become a sailor. Uh, I was a recruit up until they told me I was a sailor, which means I had to learn all the, um—I had to learn Navy history. I had to learn Navy protocol, uh, brinks, uh, customs, the culture, etc. I had to learn firefighting, how to fix a—I had to learn flooding. Any type of ship damage they try to expose us to. Uh, gas masks, you know—how to use a gas mask, what happens if your gas mask is not working. Uh, so they just try to give us the basics of, um, shipboard life, and especially, in case of emergency. So there was signaling, there was[sic] all the basics of becoming a sailor that they taught us, How to operate a weapon, if necessary. Uh, we did a little bit of shooting. So, uh—uh, how to wear a uniform, how to maintain a uniform, and the different uniforms that go with it, um, and they’ve got a lot of basic human, uh, nature things that you—that you think you—that most people would know, but recognize once more, these people are coming from all over the United States, from many different home lifes[sic], etc. so they’re teaching you hygiene—everything. So it’s—they take a raw person off the street and they turn him into a sailor that can function on his own as necessary when he leaves. Uh, and those—that’s what my primary responsibility was—to learn these things that they’re trying to teach us.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, obviously, we’re land-locked in Orlando and—and you’re in the Navy facility, how did you learn onboard training and things?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, I learned them on the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>What was that?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>That was the, uh—that was the—my first ship in the Navy, and it, uh—It was located right there, where Baldwin Park is now. Uh, it was a plywood mockup of a ship, um, and it had hatches and doorways and it looked like—it looked like a ship. You marched up to it. There wasn’t a pier associated with it. There was a little bit of a gangway. Went in there and we did watch standing. Um, it—it truly was the first time that I was on board, uh, or used a Navy simulator. It was called, um—it was the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>. <em>Blue Jacket</em> was our training manual. All sailors—that’s the—their Bible, if you will. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] and we spent, uh, many hours, uh, retrieving lines, casting lines, getting underway, uh, practicing damage control drills, things of that nature aboard the ship, and this was a culmination of many, many hours and days of classroom training, where they broke down the different aspects of the things we need to do aboard the ship into smaller chunks, if you will, so we could learn those objectives for that, and they sent us to firefighting trainers. Uh, they sent us to gas mask, uh—the gas mask room, where we went to a room with our gas masks on, and they let off the tear gas, and then they had us remove the mask, so we had some prospective of what that’s—what that’s like. Uh, did some flooding training—things of that nature—repairs. Just so that when we finally did leave boot camp, we went to further training and eventually did wind up on a ship, we would be an asset to the ship and not a—not a hindrance. By no means, a fully functioning trained sailor, but, uh, far, far, uh, greater value to the Navy after the eight weeks that we showed up and needed haircuts and uniforms.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>The hardest thing was, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—well, physically, the hardest thing was: we’re in Florida. Um, and fortunately I started in February, so by the time I was done, we hadn’t got to the summer. So we had a couple hot days on the Grinder. Lots of marching, where we weren’t quite up to snuff, so we spent an awful lot of time learning how to march in the—on the asphalt in the sun. Um, and we spent quite a bit of time at either attention or parade riffs in the sun, trying not to pass out from your knees being locked. Um, that was—that was a hard part of it.</p>
<p>Um, I think sometimes that, uh, even though, as I said earlier, I tried to keep in my mind, <em>This is just a game</em>, there was some lonely times, you know? Where you’re dead tired, and you see your chief and other folks have been yelling at you all day long, and you still got to shine your shoes one more time, and you’re just dead tired, and you’re thinking, <em>Boy, is this really the—do I want to spend my life doing this? </em>and I would—I would say, as hard as the physical part of it was, keeping that positive mental attitude that this too shall pass was kind of difficult sometimes at night. So it was probably that.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And on the flip side, at what moment did you feel most proud?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>That would be my graduation, when, um—when they played the—the patriotic music. We get to march, looking sharp as we do. Uh, we know our families’ in the stands, and we know that we’ve accomplished something. We’ve accomplished something that many people before us have accomplished and many people since, but internally, it’s—it’s something that we’ve been able to do, you know? We’ve been able to, as sailors, recognize that we do have the discipline to do the things that need to be done, and that was probably my proudest moment was—was the graduation, and seeing my folks in the stands [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So was[sic] there other purposes for the Grinder than graduation or marching?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>If there was, I never uncovered them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So[?] that—that’s where we did our, um—that’s where we did our marching, and, um, [<em>clears throat</em>], you know, [<em>clears throat</em>] sailors don’t march. That’s what the other services tell us, but we sure—we sure faked it a lot</p>
<p>[<em>phone rings</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, we spent an awful lot of time trying to stay lined up with each other. Try to—uh, and really marching is just trying to operate as a team—trying to teach folks to operate as a team. You can take the attention to detail, and you can look as good as you are and you can be perfect, but if your teammate’s not, then you gotta start all over. So marching wasn’t to learn how to march. Um, I think after I left boot camp I marched, oh, for another six months when I went to school, because they’d march us back and forth to school, but once I left school, I never marched again. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible] you want to take his[?] call?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So, um, I—I, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—the marching was, once more, one of the teaching points. Um, you have the discipline to do it. It seems silly, but it has a greater purpose. Do you have the attention to detail to do it correctly? Uh, and do you have the patience? That’s the key: do you have the patience to do this a long time? So I’m going to say that’s probably what I remember most about the—about the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah, a lot of vet[eran]s mention the Grinder. That’s for sure. Along with the <em>Blue Jacket</em> also.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>We did a lot of running on the Grinder. We—they—we spent a lot of time on physical fitness, and—and part of that is, um—part of the physical fitness aspects are, um—we need to be in shape obviously, but the same time, when they teach us things, they have to be able to stress us, so that when we—in a real situation, and there’s stress involved, we make the right decision.</p>
<p>Part of the physical fitness is wearing you down to a point where you are stressed. So they would—they would send us through running exercises and physical fitness, and then they’d get us into a classroom environment, and we’d have to start making decisions based on that, and—and that was critical to our training—to be able to say, you <em>know what? I’m dog tired</em>, like I said a few minutes ago, <em>I’m tired, but I still got to shine my shoes. I still have to do this action, I still have to clean up my—my area. My rack still needs to be made perfectly, even though I’m tired and I don’t want to do it</em>, and the only way you can get people to do that is to repeat it, repeat it, over and over again, the same thing over and over again, and even when they do it completely right, have them do it over.</p>
<p>So it was part of, you know—all the services have a long, long history of boot camps and what they’re trying to teach, but if you don’t understand that concept going in—this is what they’re trying to do—it can be pretty hard. You can think, <em>What difference does it really make that the corners on my rack are folded just perfectly?</em> You know, <em>Come on. You’re being silly, and</em> the people that have the hardest time is [sic] the people that push back on that. Um, Like my brother–in-law—he made sure I knew before I went in. just do it, play the game, move on, and from that, even though I was [inaudible] playing the game, I learned the importance of that, and I learned the discipline that comes with it, which allowed me I think, later on in my short Navy career, to function at a higher level [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Now, after graduation, did you immediately leave?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, I, um—I—I left Orlando, um, and then I—I went to [Naval Air Station] Memphis[, Millington, Tennessee] for about a year of school. Um, So I can’t remember if I took any leave between boot camp and Memphis, but if I did, I didn’t take very much, um, which is one of the reasons I was in Orlando, because, um, when I was joining the Navy—working with a recruiter—at that time, the Navy had three boot camps. They had Orlando, which 60 miles from my home, [Naval Training Center] San Diego, California, or [Naval Station] Great Lakes, uh, up in Illinois—Chicago, and I said, “Do I get a choice?” He goes, “You can always ask for—request a particular boot camp.” I said, “Great.” you know, “I want to go San Diego. I don’t want to go to Orlando. Great Lakes is to cold. Send me to San Diego.” and he said, “Alright. I can do that.” he said, “I’ll put that down. Probably a good chance of getting it.” and I’m thinking, <em>Woohoo. I’m on my way to California for boot camp.</em></p>
<p>He said, “What you need to understand is, after boot camp, you’ll get one to two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” he goes, “Before you go to your next station, you’ll get,” you know, “two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “And if you want to go home you, you can go home.” I said, “Great.” He goes, “but the Navy’s going pay you to go from San Diego to Memphis. If you want to go from San Diego to Lake Wales and back to Memphis, you’re going to pay the difference,” and, um, you know, I was—I was pulling down that huge E[nlisted Rank]-1 pay. That’s when I decided that, it was just boot camp. I’ll go to Orlando [<em>laughs</em>]. So long—long answer to your question is: yeah. I did take some leave. I took two weeks afterwards, went home, um, tried to forget everything I learned. It didn’t work, and then I reported to Memphis, um, in the summer of [19]77.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Did other recruits go to the NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I believe some did. Yes, I believe some stayed there. I—I can’t recall for sure, uh, but I believe some stayed there. Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Just the sheer numbers, there must have been some that did.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, when you were on leave, uh, did, uh, a lot of the sailors to hang out in the area or stay in Orlando for a while? We have stories of them hanging out at [Orlando] Fashion [Square] Mall and, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, well, my guess is—now, in my case, when—when I was released, I could, you know—my family was right outside the gate. I hopped in the car and drove back to Lake Wales. Other folks had transportation to wait for, um, so they may have spent time at the, you know—that weekend at the mall. They may have transferred. I—I do know that, you know—obviously we know that NTC was also a training command for other boot camp. So there was[sic] probably sailors hanging out there.</p>
<p>and I’m supposing here, that the rules were the same as when I went—first went to Memphis, and that was: when you’re that young a sailor, if you’re going on liberty, you’re going in uniform, because we want to be able to identify you as such, because we don’t completely trust you yet. You’ve been locked up for eight weeks [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, there might be a tendency for you to get in trouble, so we want to be able to quickly identify you just in case, and we also want to remind you that you are part of the Navy now, and if you’re wearing a uniform, maybe that will be a subtle reminder that you need to represent the Navy proudly. Uh, didn’t always work that way, but, uh, it was a thought.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, we’re going to go a few years in the future and, um—and, uh—do you know anything about BRAC [Base Realignment and Closure Commission] and—and—in regards to, uh, the RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yes, I do know.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, can you share some of your experience?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I’ll share what I know, because, um—what happened was: I, uh—I spent seven years in the Navy, and I, um [<em>clears throat</em>] —when I got out of the Navy, I went to work at the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center for about a year and a half. Then I was fortunate enough to get a job at this organization.<a title="">[1]</a> This organization was not here in this building<a title="">[2]</a> at that point. It was back on NTC Orlando.</p>
<p>So after ‘bout eight years, I’m back on base again. Uh, I’m not on the recruit side. I’m on NTC side. and we’re in—we’re in a bunch of different buildings, um, spread around the base, and these are—some of these buildings are so old, they were built by World War II POWs [Prisoners of War] —German POWs. Um, I—I guess we captured some POWs in submarines off the coast of Florida when they were—Operation Drumbeat. I think it was that what was going on. Anyway, they captured these guys and these guys built these buildings. So here, I’m checking in 1985 and I’m going in a building that was built 40 years ago, and they’re spread all over the base, and, um, [<em>clears throat</em>] unbeknownst to me at that particular time, there’s a move afoot by UCF and, back at that time, Congressman [Clarence William “Bill”] Nelson [II] —now Senator Nelson—to—to emphasize modern simulation in this brand new [Central Florida] Research Park that were in now, and so—so he was able to get 40 acres donated to the Navy. Congressman Nelson—Senator Nelson now—was able to get the building, BUILDCON built, and we moved out here, um, in ‘88. Um, my command—the command I’m in now NAWCTSD. The rest of NTC/RTC Orlando stayed, uh, on base.</p>
<p>Very fortunate move for us, because as, you know, history shows, in 1995, the 1995 BRAC decided that the Navy only needed one boot camp, uh, and they decided that boot camp was going be at the Great Lakes, Illinois. So San Diego boot camp was closed. The, uh, Orlando boot camp was closed, and the rest of the training command—because it wasn’t just boot camp. It was our Nuclear Power Schools, as well as some other schools—all on base—were all BRAC and were told to move elsewhere. Um, and so BRAC doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a series of years to get all the moves made [<em>clears throat</em>], and I often laugh, because when I—when I think about the buildings that I was in—as I said, built in World War II—we watched the BRAC process work on base, and we watched government contracting at its finest, and the NTC Orlando was a—was a very important base for the Navy. So important they invested a lot of money in infrastructure. So what they ended up having to do is they had to contractually finish these brand new buildings, so that they could then tear them down, because of the BRAC.</p>
<p>So, um, for those who saw the—the BRAC process, they completely leveled the base. All the buildings that were there, with a couple exceptions like the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital and one or two other buildings. Uh, and some of the buildings they leveled were brand new buildings. I mean, they had never been occupied, but they had to wait ‘til the contract was over and completed, and then they were torn down, and, uh, I don’t know if you were around there or not, but they literally created mountains of rubble in destroying this base.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] was it a good move? I don’t know, you know? I don’t know the, uh—the financial aspects of it. I do know that, uh, boot camp at Great Lakes has turned into a wonderful facility. I was just there a few weeks ago. Um, and the way we’re tr—training our recruits now is so much better than when we were training, when I was a sailor. Um, so from that aspect of it, it has been very positive today for the Navy. Um, Could that same thing have happened to Orlando, San Diego, and Great Lakes? Possibly, but I do know the Navy has improved their recruit training dramatically, and it just happens to be located in Great Lakes, and, uh [<em>clears throat</em>]—so I watched the BRAC process, uh, go through. Uh, I know not—I know that the decisions made were not popular by many, but in the end, uh, I think it turned out okay.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, so went to Memphis…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>For your training, and what—you trained for…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Aviation Electronics Technician.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And then what happened?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So after that, I was stationed at NAS [Naval Air Station] Cecil Field, which is near Jacksonville. Uh, and I was working on, um, A-7 aircraft. um, and I was there for three years, and I had a pretty good, uh—I was fairly fortunate that, in my three year tour in the A-7 outfit, I was able to work both organizational level maintenance and intermediately level maintenance, which means when I first got there, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] I had some training, and then we deployed[?] aboard the ship, and I got to work on the flight deck, uh, and, I [<em>clears throat</em>] uh, really enjoyed it, uh—working the flight deck at night, uh, Because I was a 21 year old kid [<em>laughs</em>]. Uh, and I—you know, just the danger involved, the excitement involved, what you’re doing is just so, so wildly important that I just—it’s hardest—it’s the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life, But probably the most enjoyment I’ve ever had in my life—working on the flight deck for the first cruise.</p>
<p>The second cruise I worked in mid-level[?], which gave me a different, you know—I was more of an Electronics Technician at that particular point, because now I’m working inside the electronic boxes—trouble-shooting, not working the flight deck anymore, but I was able to do that, um, for the second cruise. So I got kind of the best of both worlds when it comes to A-7’s, and after three years, uh—at that time, the rotation for the Navy was three years, uh, sea duty, three years shore duty. So I finished my sea duty, made two cruises, um, and then I went to shore duty over at NAS Jax.<a title="">[3]</a> Um, and that was working on P-3s, and I was an instructor for Maintenance Technician and I taught them how to work on the different systems of P, and that was pretty much the summary of my career, because after that second tour, I had been in the Navy for seven years, four months, and ten days. Not that I was counting. Um, I got out and, uh, I went to work at the Space Center, and then I ended up here eventually. So is that what you’re looking for? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Your career. Did you, um, eh—did—were you involved in operations? Or, I mean, um, did you see combat or…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Anything happen?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, and when—when we went aboard ship, uh, we made two cruises, and, um, it was during the period of time in our history where there wasn’t active combat going on. Um, this was—my cruises were from, uh, ’78 to ’81. Um, had a couple of incidences. The, um, Lebanon missile crisis that occurred when we were coming home one time. We had to take a detour and hang out in Libya for a while. Our pilots certainly flew in dangerous environments, especially over Libya, but I myself was never exposed, to my knowledge [<em>laughs</em>], to a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Any other experiences that you have—your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I did go in the [Naval] Reserves for about four years. Uh, My P-3 background allowed me to, uh, join the Reserves. So I would go to Jacksonville once month, er—excuse me—one weekend a month, and then I would spend two weeks every year in Bermuda, which was pretty tough duty. So then, when they decided that the Navy looked at different things and decided that they were going to close their operations in NAS Bermuda, I figured it was probably a good time to get out of the Reserves. So, um, other than that, the rest of my time—other than a little bit of time working for the Space Center—has been working for the Navy here, um, at NAWCTSD.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So the Navy was your connection into, uh, NAWCTSD and everything of that sort?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>I think so. Yes. I shouldn’t say, “I think so,” because yes. It was. Because, um, although I was in the Navy for a short period of time, I got out for reasons. Um, I love the Navy, you know? I loved it then. I love it now. Um, when I went in the Reserves, I met someone that worked here, um, told him my background—the fact that I was an instructor for the Navy, had a degree in education, and all that stuff. He felt that there would be a good fit here at NAWCTSD. So he told me about this place and, up until then, I didn’t even know it existed. Um, so he was probably—well, not probably—it was because of my connection with him in the Reserves that I found out about this place, and he told me how to apply for a job, so that’s how I was able to get back here. I couldn’t have been happier. I don’t know that there’s a better place that I could have worked. This fits my personality, this fits my background, and—and it’s something that I really enjoy doing, so pretty fortunate that way, I guess.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what are some of your responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Here? Um, well, um, my responsibilities now are, um, we have a command of about a thousand people—about 40 military, and this command is responsible for buying the training systems for the Navy. So, um, any sailor—whether that’s an enlisted sailor or officer sailor—that has to do something in the Navy [<em>sniffs</em>], is probably trained on a system that came out of here and the people that support it. So whether it’s a pilot, uh, flying aircraft, or it’s a Maintenance Technician that’s working on a training system—working on a trainer of their aircraft—doesn’t matter. They’ve gone through this. Even in boot camp, right now, when folks have to go to boot camp, they’re working—using training systems that came from this place.</p>
<p>Um, my responsibility to that is: I’m responsible for all the program managers that—that manage the programs that deliver those training systems. I also have, uh, duties as the, uh, deputy to the senior civilians, so that anything to do with the command, if you will, involving the civilians, I have a, uh, leadership role in making sure that the environment the folks have here is the best, um, environment they can have to produce great results for our Navy. So it’s—it’s two hats: responsible for the program management and also responsible for the total work force, uh—one of the folks responsible here at the—at the center.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Uh, you said that the command has a thousand people. That’s pretty large. Um, what do you think the impact is to this area?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, lots of studies been done on that [<em>laughs</em>]. Uh, and I’ve been fortunate to watch that impact grow. Uh, I mentioned that I was on base and then we moved out here. When we moved out here, um, [<em>clears throat</em>] to the building, it was mostly trees, not buildings like we have here now. Our building’s here. There’s two other buildings. University Boulevard was a two-lane road. Uh, the only close restaurant to go to was the Olive Garden on—on [Florida State Road] 50—Colonial [Drive], um, and pretty much everything you see around here has come since then, and it’s because of, not just the Navy, but our partners the Army, and the Marine Corps—and the Air Force, to some extent—all have centered their training system acquisition here. Um, we’ve been able to do that, because of our good partners, UCF. and the industry, as well as the City of Orlando, the County of Orange county, and the State of Florida have all invested in this, because they’ve seen what an engine modeling simulation really is.</p>
<p>So [<em>clears throat</em>] I would say 12-15 years ago, we were pretty busy, and we were doing—just the Navy—doing 2-3 hundred million dollars in business. Now we do about a billion every year. Uh, The Army does two to three times that every year, um, and that’s new acquisitions going out every year. Our total portfolio for the Navy is about four or 5 billion dollars’ worth of acquisitions we’re managing at one time. Because not only are we responsible for putting those training systems out there, the Navy has changed their business model in the last 20 years. In that these training systems that are out in the field for our sailors to train on, are maintained by civilians—by contractors. So were responsible for putting those contractors out there to maintain those—those, uh, devices that train. As I said—I love to say over and over again, every sailor that—in the Navy has touched one of our products. Has—has benefited from one of our products. So that’s something I’m very proud of—to be a small part of this big organization that provides that for the—for our Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So the other Armed Forces are very involved?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>Yes, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>You don’t see that too often.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yeah, [<em>clears throat</em>] we like to brag. Ourselves and the, uh—the way this organization—this organization, NAWCTSD—whatever it was called back then—actually started in the World War II era in a little Chevrolet—use to be a Chevrolet dealership up in the [Washington,] D.C. area, [<em>sniffs</em>] um, [<em>clears throat</em>] then moved to New York, and when it moved to New York, the Army said, “Hey. We like what you guys are doing.” So in 1950, the Army and the Navy signed a memorandum of agreement that said were going work together on this modern simulation training stuff, and when we moved from New York, the Army moved with us down to Orlando, and that MOA [memorandum of agreement] that we signed in 1950 still stands unaltered, and we believe it’s the longest standing MOA between the Army and the Navy ever. So 65—almost 65 years, we’ve had an MOA that’s been unaltered, and if you’re familiar the way the Army and the Navy sometimes play together, that’s a pretty amazing fact. So we—we’re proud of that. So yes. We’re strong partners with both the Army and our Marine friends, and the Air Force as well.</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>And, um, just some closing questions about the [Lone Sailor] Memorial [Project] itself. Um, what—what do you think of the memorial and, you know, memorializing Baldwin Park and, you know, the Grinder?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I think it’s a great idea. I—I—I think it’s a great idea, and I got to tell you Mike Philips s my hero, because, um, I can’t even remember how many—how many years ago it was. Oh, there. It’s up there. So 2005-2006 time frame, I was president of Central Florida Navy League here, and Mike Philips came to me and says, “Hey. I’ve got this idea. I want to put the Lone S—Sailor Memorial up in Baldwin Park, and I think it’s a great idea.” I said, “I think it’s a great idea too.” and then I—he said that it’s going to cost this amount of money, and I looked at Mike and I just—I almost laughed at him, because, like, “Mike, oh, my gosh. With[?] that kind of money, I just can’t ever see that happening. As—as great as the Navy was to this place, I just can’t ever see that happening,” and dag gummit, I’m so happy that I was wrong and Mike was right. So I’m really excited about—no—no bones about it. Mike Philips is the driving force behind this. A lot of folks have—have pitched in, and [inaudible], but Mike was the visionary that said, “This is what we need to do.” and his dream and our dream is coming true. It’s just the neatest thing that I could think of.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Have you talked to other graduates who—about this?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I’ve talked to my brother-in-law.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>And he’s kind of excited about it. Um, both him and I want to do the, uh, paver bricks for, um, our— time there. Um, so—but that’s probably, you know, it—it’s—we work with a lot of people here in the building. Uh, and quite a few probably have gone through boot camp, but they’re in Orlando, but we don’t compare that much. I mean, you know, in the Navy, when you start telling sea stories, it’s about, “I was on this ship,” or “I was on this cruise,” or “Let me tell you about this liberty port.” no one ever really says, “And I went to boot camp at…” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>So that’s just not, you know, because quite—I shouldn’t say this, but quite frankly, when you show up for boot camp, the first day and you leave the last day, it didn’t really matter whether you were in Orlando, San Diego, or Great Lakes. It was all the same to you. It was marching behind the guy in front of you, classes, late nights, you know—so that stuff. So there’s probably that—that connection that sailors have with their first ship and maybe their first base, as there is with boot camp. doesn’t mean it’s not important, um, but that’s probably why folks don’t—I mean, I know there’s[sic] guys—I work with a lot of retired guys—ex-Navy guys. I couldn’t tell you how many of them went to Orlando, to be honest, you may want to cut this part out [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] No, no. All the stories are valuable—but great. Thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>It was a pleasant being asked these questions again and give me a chance to travel down memory lane.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>When we started, I told you I didn’t have much that I remembered, but you’re right once. You start, it just starts to flow.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Good memories. You have a nice smile too.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>Yes, thanks for the opportunity.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Sure. Alright, and I need to sign some forms for ya?</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division [NAWCTSD].</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando, located at 12201 Science Drive.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Jacksonville.</p>
</div>
</div>
A-7
Attack Squadron 174
aviation electronics technicians
Baldwin Park
Base Realignment and Closure Commission
basic training
Bill Nelson
boot camps
BRAC
BUILDCON
Central Florida Navy League
Central Florida Research Park
Clarence William Nelson II
co-educational
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
CVHP
demolitions
E-1
education
Enlisted Rank 1
enlistment
Expeditionary Medal
gender segregation
graduations
Grinder
Jacksonville
Lake Wales High School
Lake Wales Junior High School
Ling-Temco-Vought A-7 Corsair II
Lockheed P-3 Orion
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Maintenance Technician
marching
Mark Miller
Master Training Specialist
memorials
Memphis, Tennessee
Mike Philips
military education
military instructors
military leave
military training
Millington, Tennessee
NAMTRADET
NAS Jacksonville
NAS Memphis
Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment
Naval Air Station Cecil Field
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Memphis
Naval Air Systems Command, the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Reserve
Navy League
NAWCTSD
orlando
P-3
POW
prisoner-of-war
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Research Park
Rob Matthews
Robert Matthews
RTC Orlando
sailors
Science Drive
segregation
simulations
simulators
Soaper
Spook Hill Elementary School
training
training systems
U.S. Naval Reserves
U.S. Representatives
U.S. Senators
University Boulevard
USS Blue Jacket
VA-174
VA-87
veterans
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/215158d1b22ce578f3eea62eb6612695.pdf
d1fd24fc12b62f5a10c38f2dbcff6115
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Grossi, Jared
Interviewee
Holtz, Alan R.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Alan R. Holtz
Alternative Title
Oral History, Holtz
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Operation Desert Shield, 1990-1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Persian Gulf War, 1991
Iraq War
Description
An oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz, who served in the U.S. Navy, during the Vietnam War, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. Born in the Brooklyn borough of New York City, New York, Holtz enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam War. He later joined the U.S. Naval Reserve and helped mobilize Reservists during the Persian Gulf War in 1991. This oral history interview was conducted by Jared Grossi on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, the USS <em>Hancock</em>, the Vietnam War, the Naval Reserves, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:33 Background<br />0:01:45 Enlistment<br />0:02:50 Boot camp and USS <em>Hancock</em><br />0:05:55 Vietnam War<br />0:09:22 Naval Reserves and going back to school<br />0:10:23 Liberty and awards<br />0:12:48 Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm<br />0:14:43 Off-duty activities<br />0:16:07 Keeping in contact with other sailors, injuries, and September 11th<br />0:17:31 Civilian life<br />0:18:55 Lessons learned from the Navy<br />0:19:20 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz. Interview conducted by Jared Grossi in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
13-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 27-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Vietnam
Philippines
Creator
Holtz, Alan R.
Grossi, Jared
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
432 MB
164 KB
Medium
21-minute and 27-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Jared Grossi and Alan R. Holtz.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Matthews, Eamonn, Ben Loeterman, and Will Lyman. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/34145115" target="_blank"><em>The Gulf War</em></a>. Alexandria, VA: PBS Video, 1996.
Anderson, Michael G. <a href="/www.worldcat.org/oclc/27694401" target="_blank"><em>The Air Force Rapid Response Process: Streamlined Acquisition During Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm: Project Air Force Analysis of the Air War in the Gulf</em></a>. Santa Monica, CA: Rand Corp, 1992.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Three.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Today, it is November 11<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Alan [R.] Holtz, who served in the Navy. He served in Vietnam [War] and helped mobilize Naval Reservists during Operation Devert[sic]—Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. He completed his service as an E[nlisted]-6 rank. My name is Jared Grossi. We are interviewing Mr. Holtz as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview at—in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Alright. So Mr. Holtz…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Yes?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Where were you born? </p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>I was born in Brooklyn[, New York City], New York.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi <br /></strong>Okay. What was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>My childhood? It was very good. I, uh—my parents were very, very good. I had three brothers. We had a great time. I really had a good childhood. I liked it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>You, uh—are you the oldest of the brothers?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>No, I’m the second. I have one older brother and the rest are younger than me.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz <br /></strong>Uh, my father was in the Army during World War II, but then he was—but then he, uh—he worked for a packaging company, I believe, in—in Brooklyn.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz </strong>And my mom, uh, stayed home and raised us four kids. I don’t think she worked outside though.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi </strong>Alright. Um, did—Other than your father, did anyone else enlist before you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, my father I had a couple of uncles that were in during World War II, and that’s it. My brother tried to enlist in the Air Force, and I think his vision wasn’t good, so he didn’t—he didn’t make it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what type of education did receive before your service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, right—right out of high school, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How old were you when you enlisted? I mean, you said it was after high school.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, 18.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what caused you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it’s kind of a long story. They had the draft at that time, and people were being drafted into the Vietnam War, and it was, uh, sort of a lottery system, where would they tell you your number and you had a better chance of getting drafted, so I had a pretty good chance that I was going to be drafted. So to get a better choice of where you want to go, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What did your family think of your enlistment?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they—they were happy about it. Like I said, my uncle was in the Navy and said it was the best one of the services, even though my father was in the Army. So they were happy about it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was, uh, boot camp like in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Boot camp—it was—it was very tough for me, because it was the first time I was like away from home, alone there, and not, you know—scared what was going happen, but I ended up doing good[sic], ‘cause I had, uh—I was in pretty good shape. So the physical stuff wasn’t that hard for me, so I—I did good[sic].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, where were you stationed after completing your training?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, after—after boot camp, I went to training in San Diego, California, and the first place I was stationed was onboard an aircraft carrier, U—USS <em>Hancock</em></p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was your experience when you first arrived where you were stationed?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />When I first arrived, it was—it was just very different than anything that I had seen before. Nev—I’d never been on a ship, and it was really big. Um, lot of people. You have to live in, uh—sleeping on a little bunk in a room with a lot of other people. So it was—it was hard to get used to.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Um, what was your instructor like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>In—in boot camp, you mean?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Uh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, he, eh—He was good. You—first you get there, and you’re scared, and you’re—hate them and everything, but you get used to it. Then once you graduate, you appreciate what he did, you know, what he taught you, and everything.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />So you mentioned living on the carrier. What was, uh, the Navy life like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I—I liked it. Once you get out of boot camp, you realize it’s more like a job and it’s not all going to be like you were—like it was in boot camp. So you, uh—you get used to it pretty fast. It was good. It was fun. Some of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, was there any—what was not fun about it?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />What was not fun was the hours. You work a lot of hours, a lot of hard work, and, uh, the thing I got trained for was, uh, personnel, which is human resources. So when you work in human resources and in an office, they—the other people on the ship don’t think you’re doing anything, ‘cause you’re not out there manning the guns, or steering the ship, or anything important. Your, uh—you know, according to them. So you get volun—you get volunteered to do other work to help other departments. So it’s—it’s a lot of work, a lot of hours.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. So what were some of your other duties then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I worked in the—in the laundry, pressing uniforms and stuff, and, um, just, uh, security watches and stuff, go—security. Guard duty is called “watches” in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what were the watches like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, you get different hours, like you’d have f—a four-hour period, where you just, you know, stand guard over something or, you know, security of the ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, what was your assignment during the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I was in the personnel office on the aircraft carrier, and I was, uh, in support of an air squadron, where they—the, uh, pilots would fly off the carrier and do whatever they had to do over there, and just their support, like their—make sure their pay, their paper work got done, you know, transfers, retirements, whatever they had to do. All the office work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, tell me about your, um, Western Pacific [Ocean] and your Mediterranean [Sea] cruise?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />That, uh—well, the Western Pacific was while I was on the aircraft carrier, and where they would go off the coast of Vietnam for a while, and then after that, they would go into different ports. So I got to see a lot of the world over there. It was—it was really good. The Philippines was my favorite place.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh, what made it your favorite place?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, just that the people are very—they’re very friendly. They’re very nice. They—they support, you know—they supported the military. Met a lot of nice people there, and also the, uh, beaches, mountains, everything—just a beautiful place to relax, after being out at sea for a long time. </p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What was the typical day like during this period?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />A typical day? Uh, like I said, there’s—there’s[sic] long hours, and your—Besides the regular office hours, which is—they try to make it eight to five, but then you’re on call and other things come up, so you end up staying there a lot longer or being called in the middle of the night, and then, if you had one of those, uh, watches or some other duties you had to do that—they don’t take the hours away from your regular office work. You still have to be there. So some days you’d be working without any sleep.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What was the food like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />The food was—was actually good. I know people complain about it, but it was—it was good. You had a lot of choices. You got—you don’t have that much time to eat sometimes, but the—the food was really good. They did a—they did a good job.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what would you do to entertain yourself at times?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they had different activities, and s—you know, sports. ‘cause we would like—‘cause when I’m on an aircraft carrier that has a big flight deck, so during the times that they’re not, uh, landing and taking off aircraft, they’re—use it for sports, games, and they had movies, and they—we would get our mail stuff, and they didn’t have the Internet back then, but…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />We could make phone calls and send messages.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Did the Navy change after the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it cha—Yeah. It changed a lot. A lot of things changed.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Could you tell me about some of the changes?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, see, it seemed during the war, they were more relaxed about, you know, haircuts, uniforms, A lot of things. Uh, even—even drug use was pretty prevalent during the Vietnam War, and they didn’t—seemed like they really cared that much, and it went from that to the zero tolerance policy pretty quickly. You know, I guess they realized it was getting quite out of hand [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, tell me about the Naval Reserves.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />They—well, after— after my first four years, I got out for a few months. was going back to school, but then I decided to go back in and I went into the—it was called Training and Administration of the Reserves program, Where I’d work at Reserve centers and air stations, just training—training Reserves, and supporting them, doing there paper work, and keeping records and things.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said you went back to school. Um, what’d you go back to school for?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I—I went back to get an AA [Associate of Arts] degree, which I did, you know, start. When I got out, I started going full-time, but then I went back in the military and went just part-time ‘til I finished then.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright, and then you said you wound up going back in? Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Why’d you decide to do that?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I got married, and then I was going to have a kid. So I thought that would be—I thought that would be a good, uh—good career to have, since I liked it a lot for the first four years. So I decided to go back in and make a career out of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what was your job in the Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, tt was still office work. It was, um, personnel, but, uh, helping with the training of Reserves. Like the Reserves that would come in one weekend a month, and they’d get trained. The—the person—the administrative ones—I would help train them, and also keep all there records and everything for all the Reserves. You know, transfers, retirements, promotions. Everything they do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how did moving up through the ranks change your responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it changed a lot. You get a lot more responsibility pretty quick[sic] from when you first go in and just—I made it all the way up to E6, which is, uh, supervisor. So it’s a lot of responsibility, because you have a lot of other people to worry about and make sure there doing their job as well.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was one of your most memoral[sic]—memorable days throughout your service in your career—in the serving career?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, most memorable days? Uh, I guess, uh, being on a ship and traveling. You know, any one of those days, when you’re—you know, you work hard, but then when you finally get into a port, they give you a lot of time off to do what you want and relax, and I like that part of traveling. Seeing new places.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Traveling must have been fun. Um, what were some of the things you do when you um, would dock at ports?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they would have—they would have tours available, you know, they’re trying to encourage you not to just go out to bars, like some people did. Um, so I didn’t do too much of that. I went on a lot of the bus tours and they had events scheduled for us. Like you could go help, uh, different charity events, go help, like—I remember one time, we painted a church or helped this, uh, shelter for people. A lot of things like that, where you can help the community too. They didn’t want us to just go out there and have fun and leave [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, did your receive any awards?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I’ve got a lot of—a lot of different medals and awards for different things. I don’t even remember them all.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How did you help exactly in Operation Desert Storm and [Operation Desert] Shield?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, that—at that time, I was at a Reserve center, and they mobilized some of the Reserve units to send them over there to—to, uh, well, fight, or set up things, whatever, and so we were—when you’re in the Reserves, they have these drills all the time about mobilizing the Reserves and calling them into active duty, and you think it’s never going to really happen, but that was the real thing. We had to mobilize them—and I think it was about three hundred people from our Reserve units—and get them ready, get them there orders, paper work and everything, and travel arrangements, and send them over there.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said there was[sic], uh, drills and you actually wound up having to do them. Um, did the drills you feel help? Or was the actual event…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, the actual event’s a lot different than—it—it helped—it—the drills helped you prepare for it, but then when it actually happens, they—there isn’t time to actually to do it—there wasn’t time to actually do it step-by-step the way you plan. You know, Set up the incoming—set up the tables, set up the—what forms they’re going to need. So it—it worked out a lot different than you planned, but you still got it done.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, did your experience in Desert Storm and Shield differ from Vietnam?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, yeah. It was a lot different, ‘cause I was just at the Reserve center, and—and preparing these other people to go where I—I—In Vietnam War, I was actually on the ship, right off the coast there, and even though I was working the office, I was more, you know—closer to the action that was going on, supporting the people, but, uh, for that for that—for that operation, I was just at the Reserve center, and getting them ready to go there. So it seemed like it was further from the actual thing.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what kind of activities did you do while off duty? Um, I know you mentioned you—you’d go on tour and stuff…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />During the dockings. Um, was it just—I mean, uh—I guess when you’re off duty, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, just—well, if I’m in a different—At the Reserve center or at the…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Uh, I—just In general</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, if you’re…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />When you were off duty.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, when it—when it—it’s different when you’re off duty overseas. I would just, you know, travel, see, you know—See what I could find, enjoy the scenery and new places, but once I was at Reserves center, Reserves center is in the—in that program, I was back home. So I was married and had kids. So I was just doing normal, you know—normal daily life, and it was more like a regular job, than when you’re on a ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Did you visit back home often?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I would. Yeah, my parents were still in New York most of that time, so I would—I would fly home whenever I could. Get vacation. They gave you a lot of time off in the military, when—when they can.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, when you were back home, what did you do for work or just entertainment then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, spend time with my parents and my brothers, and visiting, mostly.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, did you still keep in contact with any of your friends you made in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I did for a while, but it was hard to do that, ‘cause so many people get transferred, and you don’t see them again, and—So I lost track of a lot of them, but there was a few that I—that I still kept in contract[sic] —contact with.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, could you tell me about some of the injuries you received?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, first injury—first injury I got—when I was working on that aircraft carrier, I worked in the laundry, and pressed my hand down on…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />On the steam press. So that’s how I got that injury. So I call it my “Vietnam War injury,” but not really. It was on the aircraft carrier, working in the laundry, and got—got that hand burned, and some other things: I just hurt my back while I was there, so— but nothing too serious. I’m still able to work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How did, uh, the events of 9/11<a title="">[1]</a> affect you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />How did it affect me? I was—I remember being very angry when it—when it happened, and wishing I was back in the military, so I could go do something about it, you know? Help fight whoever was doing it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How was the transition from the Navy life into the civilian life?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it was very hard, at first, to—when you’re looking for a job, and you try to relate what you did in the military to civilian job. So you work in an office and, you know, you find out that all you’re qualified to do is be a secretary, or something like that. So actually, I was, uh, a medical services secretary, when I first got out. That was the first job they had at, uh, Humana[, Inc.] health care.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how—how has the civilian life affected you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, well—well, I got used to it pretty quickly, and I had other jobs since then, and then finally found UCF [University of Central Florida], which I like.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How have the—the way the civilians treated you over the years—how has that been?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />It’s—it’s been good, mostly. Most people—most people, you know, they appreciate what you did. they—there’s, you know, this preference for veterans, and a lot of jobs that you go for, you know—to at least get you the interview to see if you’re qualified to get the job, but, uh, most people treat you—treat you good[sic]. I never had anybody who didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What lessons, from your time in the Navy, do you consider valuable?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I think I learned a lot about working, do, uh—doing the best job that you can, getting it—trying to get everything done, so you can enjoy your time off, and, uh, doing a good job working with other people—Team work. A lot—a lot of things you learn there, you know, still relates to whatever job you have outside.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Do you have any, uh, unusual or funny stories in your time of the service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not really [<em>laughs</em>]—not really that I can think of. I’m sure there were some.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, now, there’s some unusual things when I was working at the Reserve centers. There sometimes—sometimes, they’re the only military in the area. So they’ve let you—make you volunteer for a lot of different things, like security and different things that you don’t need security for. They just wanted the local military to be there, and doing funerals, and things that I didn’t like to do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, is there anything else we missed or you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not—not really. Not that I can think of.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, do you have any messages or lessons you’d like to pass on to the young—the young people?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, about the military? Just that it—it is a good career. Uh, the benefits are great, now that I’m retired. I did—I did, you know, 20 years. Now that I’m retired, it’s really worth it to, uh—the benefit you get, through retirement, the medical care, everything. So it’s worth it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, questions?</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, well, I’d like to thank you, Mr. Holtz, for your time. I and the UCF community really appreciate you coming out today and telling your story, Um, in the—in the short time in the interview [<em>laughs</em>]. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
1st Gulf War
1st Iraq War
9/11
aircraft carrier
aircraft carriers
Alan R. Holtz
basic training
boot camp
boot camps
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
CVHP
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Desert Shield
Desert Storm
drafts
E-6
education
Enlisted Rank 6
enlistment
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Gulf War
Hancock
instructors
Iraq War
Jared Grossi
Kuwait War
liberties
liberty
military education
military training
naval instructors
North Vietnam
Operation Desert Shield
Operation Desert Storm
Persian Gulf War
Philippines
Republic of the Philippines
Republic of Vietnam
San Diego, California
selective service
September 11th
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
South Vietnam
TAR
terrorism
terrorists
training
Training and Administration of the Reserve
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
USS Hancock
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
watch
watches
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/23cee619e48419169ea1f645a27a566f.pdf
b7a6d7466583d7bbf2c25d4c15fc488b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Ennis, Marc
Interviewee
Hazen, Kendra
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Marc Ennis
Alternative Title
Oral History, Ennis
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
Navy
Simulation
Description
An oral history interview of Marc Ennis, who joined the U.S. Navy in December of 1990 and attended Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for boot camp at age 17. After boot camp, he attended Electronic Warfare training at Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center in Pensacola, Florida, and reported to his first ship, USS <em>Gunston Hall</em>, at Little Creek, Virginia.<br /><br />After three and a half years, Ennis trained at aircrew school in Pensacola and then Millington, Tennessee, to become an Aviation Warfare Sensor Operator and rescue swimmer for Sikorsky SH-60/MH-60 Seahawk helicopters. He also joined the fleet replacement squadron aircrew for Helicopter Squadron 1 in Jacksonville, and then reported to his first fleet squadron, Helicopter Squadron 5 (HS-5), also in Jacksonville. After completing his service for HS-5, Ennis reported to the helicopter wing as an instructor. After three years instructing, he transferred to Naval Air Facility Atsugi in Yamato and Ayase, Japan, for sea duty with Helicopter Squadron 14.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Kendra Hazen and includes topics such as Ennis' background and family, RTC Orlando, his Navy life after training, Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD), and the simulation industry in Central Florida.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:02:40 Family service members<br />0:04:12 Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando)<br />0:08:08 Daily life at RTC<br />0:13:05 Classes and training<br />0:19:08 Social life<br />0:22:14 Co-educational training and Competition Week<br />0:24:18 Instructors<br />0:25:57 Marching and proudest moments<br />0:29:03 The Grinder and the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em><br />0:33:54 Graduation<br />0:36:14 Navy career after RTC Orlando<br />0:42:49 Assignment with the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD) in Orlando<br />0:46:29 Simulation at NAWCTSD<br />0:53:22 Future of the simulation industry in Central Florida<br />0:56:03 Most valuable lessons learned in Navy<br />0:58:58 Photographs<br />1:03:31 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Marc Ennis Interview conducted by Kendra Hazen on February 22, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Ennis, Marc</a>. Interviewed by Kendra Hazen, February 22, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014894, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 1- hour and 47-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Ennis, Marc</a>. Interviewed by Kendra Hazen, February 22, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014894, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Recruit Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center, Pensacola, Florida
Jacksonville, Florida
Naval Air Facility Atsugi, Yamato-Ayase, Japan
Creator
Ennis, Marc
Hazen, Kendra
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-02-22
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-02-22
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
55.6 MB
263 KB
Medium
1- hour and 47-second Hi8 CD/DVD
30-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Kendra Hazen and Marc Ennis.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Marc Ennis</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Cool.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Alright. I get to be fancy at the beginning.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>There you go.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>So just so you know. Alright. Today is Wednesday, February 26<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Marc Ennis, who served in the U.S. Navy. Mr. Ennis attended recruit training at RTC Orlando and after 21 years of service returned to Orlando to work at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division]. My name is Kendra Hazen and I am interviewing Mr. Ennis as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview in Colburn Hall at UCF in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Ennis, will you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>I was born in Port Hueneme, California. February 9<sup>th</sup>, 1973.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was actually in the Navy, but when we were born he had, uh, just retired. So, uh, my only recollect—recollection of the Navy was, uh, living near it, and, uh, he actually worked for the State of California, uh, for the, uh, gas company, and, uh, my mom was a stay at home mom, uh—didn’t work. I mean, she worked, [<em>laughs</em>] but in the—in the home.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Did you have any brothers and sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>I have, uh, three brothers. Uh, I’m a twin. A fraternal twin, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And, uh, two older brothers, One of which is, uh, still in the Navy up in Jacksonville, and my—the—the oldest brother—he’s in, uh, Pensacola.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, uh, I was a student, and, uh, actually I, uh, graduated high school and, uh, joined the Navy, uh, that summer. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>The summer of what? What year?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, well, I guess it was the summer of [19]89. So I actually graduated, uh, during the summer of my junior year. So I never attended my senior year, and, uh—so I had enough credits, so I just joined the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh, so why did you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah. There was a couple different factors, but I was getting married and had a baby on the way, and, uh, that’s what really started everything off.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And was there a reason why you chose the Navy opposed to any of the other branches of service?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis <br /></strong>o, I guess it was, uh, because of my father, but for the most part it was, uh—didn’t really think about any of the, uh—the other services. So yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Did, um—besides your dad, was there anyone else in your family who served in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Um, yeah. So we, uh—since my dad moved around a bunch before I was born, uh, we didn’t have a lot of family, but my uncle on my mother’s side, he was in the Navy, and then my, um—my wife’s grandfather was, uh, also in the Navy back, um—uh, I mean it was a pretty long time ago. Back in the ‘40s-50s. Uh, but that didn’t really, um, you know, make my decision to join, I guess. Now, as I think about it, and in fact, my mom was in the Navy too which is pretty unique. She was a WAVE [Women's Auxiliary Army Corps], and when they—when my mom and dad first met, uh, they were both in the Navy, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>What’s a WAVE?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>It’s a, um—it’s a Woman Active—I’ll have to look the acronym up, but it’s basically a, uh—um, a woman, uh, sailor that was doing administrative duties, but they were still part of—they were very vital to the war and everything. Uh, but she was yeoman…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Which is a clerical type person, and, uh, but she was actually modeled on a three cent stamp—her and three other women.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s uh—I’ll send that to you—the details on that, but that’s pretty cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Yeah, thank you. Um, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, uh—no—no real, uh, heartache, and no real like, “Hey. that’s great.” Just kind of indifferent.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, and where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So I attended boot camp here in Orlando, and I was living in Pensacola, Florida, when I joined. Actually it was Gulf Breeze, Florida, but...</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>It was called Freeze, Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Gulf—Gulf Breeze.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Gulf Breeze. What was called Gulf Breeze?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>It was the city.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh, okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So it wasn’t Pensacola, but—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Gotcha. Um, and you said you began your training at RTC [Recruit Training Center] Orlando after graduating?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Right. So I, uh—there was a couple of months, uh—so I graduated that summer. I guess it was maybe August-September. You know, I took the final class of summer school, got the paperwork signed off, and then, uh, took maybe a month or two off, and I was, uh, reported to board December 9<sup>th</sup> of 1990.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, you were from Florida at that time, but, um, what did you know about specifically the RTC Orlando region before you got here?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, nothing. Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>It was kind of a whirlwind, right? You know, you hear about all this stuff, “Hey, you’re going to boot camp here.” But for the most part, you know, it was, uh, get on an airplane, you show up, they bus you here, and then everything was a whole different world, you know? You’re, uh, taken out of the comfort zone, thrown right into, uh, you know, people yelling at ya, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And 20 years ago, you know, it was a little different too, because they—you didn’t have all this, uh, kindler[sic], gentler, you know, no screaming, no cussing. It was—it was pretty hardcore, but it was good, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How long were you at RTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh,for approximately six to eight weeks. I’m not sure exactly. I guess I graduated right around February—was it February 7<sup>th</sup>[, 1991]? It was right near my birthday. So that was kind of cool, ‘cause I turned 18, uh, you know, right when I graduated boot camp. So it was right around that day. I can’t remember the exact day, but yeah. It was pretty unique.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What were your first impressions of the base?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, uh, the base—uh, we showed up at night, and then during the day, uh, we’d walk down a long, um, kind of sidewalk, and we marched everywhere we went, and, uh, there was[sic] trees. The weather was, uh, really nice. It was December. It wasn’t too cold, and, um, yeah. it was just, um—we saw a very small part of the base. I mean, we—we walked down the same street. We, uh—they had a big, uh, like marching field, right? Looked like a big tarmac—a big airport. Just a big black top, right? And, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Did that area have a name at all?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>The Grinder.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so that’s where you do all your practicing for marching, and, uh—but no. For the most part, it was, um, the same thing every day. So you really didn’t see any part of the, uh—the outside of the base, and all the buildings were very similar. Um, it was—it was, uh, very sanitary, I guess, right? So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And you’ve started to talk about this a little bit but what were your first days of service like? What were your first days of training like?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Right. So—so, the very first day, you know, when we arrived here, there was a lot of yellin’, and, uh, obviously they were lining a bunch of people up from different parts of the country, and, uh, it was just kind of a shock, and, uh, for the most part it was, uh, <em>Wow.</em> You know? Your eyes are o—opened wide, and from then on, you just stayed busy. I mean your—you didn’t have a lot of time to think, I guess, ‘Cause they were just hitting you with you so many, uh, new things, and you were learning this, learning that. Um, so yeah. It—it wasn’t—there wasn’t really a lot of time to—to think about it, and then as you asked the question now, I guess I really hadn’t thought about it until—‘til now.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>You know, what I thought.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, can you describe for me what daily life was like?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis <br /></strong>Yeah, so daily life was, uh, pretty good. Very routine. You wake up, uh, I think it was about 4:30, and, uh, you did the, uh, you know—you brushed your teeth, Got all your toiletry stuff done, You lined up, They came in, Inspected, uh, the—the compartment, and then, uh, we normally PTed [physical training], uh—exercised, and then we went to classes, right? And then you’d do some— you’d go to chow—lunch, and like I said, you were marching everywhere you went, so that was a chore in itself, ‘cause we’d never done it, and, um, yeah.<br /><br />So there was a lot of motivation. Uh, they used to call it, um—uh, basically, you’d get punished, right? ‘Cause you didn’t do something right. So they would take you outside on the sidewalk and line everybody up, and they’d start making you do jumping jacks or something like that. But, uh, every day was filled with, um—with something new, as far as what’d you learn and then they’d move you on to the next step, So—but yeah the routine was: you wake up, get the compartment ready for inspection, uh, get inspected, go to class or PT, and um—and that’s the funny thing about the, uh, the exercise. The exercise wasn’t as, uh—we—we had no—no exercise uniform. I mean, you exercised in your daily stuff, Right? So it was kind of unique in that way that, uh—um, everything you did was kind of an exercise and you’re always ready to, uh, do—do jumping jacks or pushups or whatever. So it was kinda—kinda cool, and then, um, yeah. You’d hit noontime lunch, hit some, uh, dinner, and then after dinner, I know we did stuff, but I can’t remember what happened after dinner. Like I said, everything was kind of a blur. It’s kind of hard to go back and to—to think about it now. It’s, uh—you know, as I see the RTC now, I mean, none—none of it looks like what I remember, but then again all the buildings were tore[sic] down. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell me a little bit more about the inspections? What exactly was being inspected?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>[<em>sighs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What exactly were the standards…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That you were supposed to be meeting?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, this was…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>This was some crazy stuff, right? So on your bunks—and—and they were single, uh—very, uh basic bunks that you had. You had a bottom bunk and you had a top bunk. So what they would expect is, uh, the hospital corners, right? So how you folded your sheets and they would go down to the—the biggest detail of how the, uh—the edges of the sheets were, uh—I don’t know if you had that little, uh—I don’t know. You just had to have the sheets the right way, so when it folded over you wouldn’t see that little rough edge. So you always want the smooth edge on top and then the, uh—the hospital corners had to be at a 45 degree—everything had to be…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What’s a hospital corner?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>It’s just where you, uh, bring the excess sheet…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And bring it at an angle. It’s kind of like wrapping a present, right? And you take the excess and then fold it underneath so you have real, real neat corners.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>They call it “hospital corners.”</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Hospital corners, right? And the next thing was, uh, how you fold your socks, how you fold you underwear, how—you know, your t-shirts, and then everything else had a place, right? And they’re very detailed on—on—on that stuff. Your shoes had to be shined, and, uh, yeah. So everything…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Belt buckles, maybe?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Oh, belt buckles? Yeah. Attention to detail for all that stuff. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And that—that was every day, right? I mean, you didn’t get a day that went by where you didn’t get inspected, and most the time, you failed the inspection, right? ‘Cause there was always something they would find that wasn’t right, and then, uh, I think there was like 60 of us that started off. So you’d have 60 people in a, uh—in a room, where you slept and you did inspections, and, uh, normally, uh, those never went well, right? So you’re—you’re always getting corrected on somethin’, and that’s kind of unique, ‘cause, uh, as you go along you start getting better, right? And, uh, less, uh—less yellin’ [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>So in that room of 60 or so, would there be one officer that came through to inspect?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How would that…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, it’d normally—you—you’d…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Would it take a long time?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, pretty quick. You were assigned two recruit—recruit company commanders, and, uh—so for us, we had two chiefs. I think actually for us, one might have been a senior chief—an E[nlisted Rank] 7 and an E-8. So they’re pretty senior, and, uh, yeah. It’d go pretty quick actually. Maybe, uh—maybe a half hour. But—so the whole session though was, uh, you get inspected, they get mad at ya, they exercised ya, and then you fixed, you know, what the problems were and then you went and, you know, did classes or something like that. yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And then you talked a little bit about classes and tasks and you would do some class and then move onto the next one. Can you give me an idea of examples of…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Classes that you had to go through?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so a lot of ‘em were—were talking about firefighting, or different parts of the, uh—the ship. You know, how the ship operates. Um, different, uh—so—so the ship is, you know—they don’t have addresses for the different rooms, right? So you have bulkheads and they start from the beginning of the—of the bow, and that’s, uh, frame zero, and then, uh, as you go further back on the ship, the frames will increment up. So, um, you know, they—but basically the premise is, if you need to get to a compartment that’s, uh, on the first deck, right? It’s gonna be one and then the second number’s gonna be the frame number, right? So you know what—you know what level it’s on, and then the second number is gonna tell you how far from the bow, uh, the room is, and then the third number’ll tell ya how far out, uh—out it is from the center of the ship.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So—so, uh, it’s a pretty unique numbering system, but it works on every ship. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you give me any other examples of classes?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so, uh, we talked about the firefighting. We talked about the, uh—I guess the, uh—the history. History was a big deal and, uh, that was kind of unique. So the Navy is big on tradition, right? And, uh, a lot of that was, uh—they’d go back and they’d talk about, you know, how the Navy was first, uh conceived, who, uh—the first ship—don’t quiz me on any of this, ‘cause…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].<strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. But, uh—yeah. So, uh, let’s see. We had, of course, uniform standards, regulations, you know. You did all the stuff talking about pay, you know. It was just a—anything you wanted to know about the Navy and, uh, that you needed to know, uh, you’d get in those classes. Some of it was basic, um, you know, uh, classes maybe on English or math, and some of these were, you know, to make sure that the, uh—uh, people could—could beat the standards, I guess.</p>
<p>The other thing we did was a lot of in-prossing[sic] for your different ratings or jobs. So for me, um, they would take you to the medical—a lot of shots, right? And remember, you had to get uniforms. So yeah. It was a lot of, uh—yeah. Now—now as I start to remember all this—yeah. The first week, I guess, was, you know, picking up your uniform, you’re getting shots, you’re going to medical, and just a lot of in-processing, right? And then maybe the, uh, you know, the—the, uh—I don’t know—second, third, fourth week was a little more, you know, of the classes and stuff like that. So—but yeah. It—it was busy, and then maybe, uh—let’s see.<br /><br />So what was it? Boot camp was about, uh, six weeks, and, uh, in be—right in the middle of it, they had something called, uh, “work week,” right? So what they would do is—so all the facilities on the, uh—on the base—you know, whether it was chow hall, the laundry, the admin—was normally run by the recruits with, uh, some—some other senior sailors, you know, overseeing ‘em, right? So like, uh, for the chow hall, you had your cooks who were pretty senior sailors. They’d been in for four or five, six, years, and then of course, you had your recruits that would do all the, you know, washing the dishes, you know, cleaning everything, you know, running stuff from here to there, and then, uh—so we did that at about the, uh, maybe the third week, and, uh, did that for a whole week, and then, uh, you would fall back into training—training mode. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And those kind of tasks were normal tasks? Not like punishment or anything?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, no. So—so….</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>They were expected?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That was part of the routines. So you would learn, uh, you know, whatever.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, everything had a purpose. You may not have known what it was when you were doing it.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Sure[?].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>But as—as—as you look back on it, you kind of see that, you know, it was responsibility. It was initiative. It was, uh, all those sorts of things as a young kid you may not have, right? And, uh—so, you know, some people did good[sic] at it and other people—other people needed maybe a little more motivation.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Did the Navy use words kind of like that? As kind of…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Key words to guide? What were some of those key words?</p>
<p><strong>Enni<br /></strong>Yeah, so, uh—um, “Uniformity will prevail,” right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Um, you know, obviously, looking sharp. “Sharp” is a—is a good one. “Professionalism.” Uh, let’s see. Um, I’m trying to think of some other ones. Uh, Yeah. Basically “teamwork.” You know, that’s—That’s another huge one that you—you’ll see, and then, the, uh—and remember, this was the first co-ed[ucational] boot camp too, so we had women, uh, that were, uh—obviously, we weren’t integrated, per say, but we had a sister company that, um, kind of had the same timeline, right? So, uh—uh, but yeah, but everyone was a shipmate, you know? You weren’t like a—or a sailor. Everything was kind of gender-neutral and, uh—so that was kind of unique, but yeah.</p>
<p>They really wanted you to get the teamwork and the, uh—and—and the leadership, and they promoted the idea that, you know, when you’re on a ship, you know, it’s you, right? I mean, You don’t have anyone coming in there to help ya, so If something happens, uh, it’s the crew that’s gonna, uh, take care of the, uh—the issues, whatever they might be. So—and that was the other thing—talk about history—was they used a lot of examples from the past, you know, whether it be, uh, um, back in the John Paul Jones days or the, um, you know—in World War II or—or anything like that. So it was pretty cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell me a little bit about the recruits that you went through training with? What was your impression or your relationships like with the different recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so, uh, that was pretty cool, and it’s—it’s kind of funny how, um, you know, people that don’t know each other and are from different parts of the country—But everyone has a characteristic or—or a trait, and, uh, I think the—the instructors were very good at picking out, um, you know, people for their different talents, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And then, Maybe—maybe, uh, they had some insight. but like, uh, we had an older recruit, right? I think he was like 25, and, uh, he immediately kind of, like, took charge. So they made him the, uh, kind of the leader of the group, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And then we had some other people that were, uh, you know—I don’t want to stereotype people—but they had one guy with glasses, and I think he was very administrative. So they made him the yeoman. So you pretty much had the same basic tasks or the basic structures like anywhere, right? You have a—a leader. You have a secretary. You have a, you know, master-at-arms, and, um—so yeah.</p>
<p>I remember the people that they picked were, uh—I’d kinda go <em>Yeah. That—that’s interesting.</em> You know, and, uh, my claim to fame was, you know, to—to lay low and don’t be noticed. So that worked out pretty well, and, uh, yeah. It was uneventful, and the memories that, you know—from—from boot camp—while—I don’t really keep in touch them.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>I mean, it’s a—it’s—if you see them, it’s an immediate, uh, bond, because it’s something you got—you know, you’ve been through. Yeah. It was pretty cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What kind of social life existed among the recruit—recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Um, yeah. Social life? Really none.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>I mean, you know, the biggest thing was there was maybe—an always kind of an underground, uh, type deal with the—with the recruits. Like if the, uh—the instructor left, then, uh, you know, the recruits would—I mean, we were breaking the rules, but you know they—they would say, “Lights out. Go to sleep.” And the next thing you know, uh, you’d start, you know, maybe talking to your buddy or, um, just kind of, you know, either, uh—just doing what you need to do, write a letter home or—or something like that, right? So I don’t think it was like breaking the rules, but you always kinda had your, uh—uh, your—your little bit of time to yourself, right? And, uh, the funny part was, a lot of people, uh, um, kinda worked out, you know? They—they, uh—‘cause I forget what time the lights went out, but there was, uh—yeah. A lot of people were—were doing pushups and exercisin’ and—yeah. I mean, it wasn’t a lot of people. don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t like they turned the lights off, the place goes crazy. It was just kind of unique, where, you know, certain people had their kind of routines and they kinda kept them. So it was kinda—kinda unique.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell me a little bit more about the co-ed aspect of training?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so the—the co-ed aspect wasn’t a big deal. In fact, it was, uh, you know—I—I don’t know. Maybe—maybe I just didn’t, uh, take a lot of notice to it, but for the most part, they did what they did. Uh, we did what we did. There wasn’t a whole lot of, uh, interaction between the two groups. Uh, you know, we’d pass each other. We, uh, you know—really there wasn’t a whole lot of interaction.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen <br /></strong>Um, did the women have a woman leader and the—the men have a male leader?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>You know, that’s a good question. Um, I think it was, uh, both. I think, uh—I mean we—I had male instructors, but I think some of the females had male instructors and I think some of the, uh, male, uh, groups had female instructors, but I couldn’t tell you for sure. I don’t think they segregated it that much, but, uh, I can’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Were there any activities that were done together, even like…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis </strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>eating or anything?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah. In fact, uh, um, we did have a, uh, competition week, right? Maybe not a week. Maybe a day or two, right? And, uh, it was kinda like, uh—what do you call it? Your field day, and, uh, you go out and do sports and everything, and I’m trying to think how we worked that, but I think that was one of the integrated-type deals where, you know, you, uh, um—or was that—I’m trying to think. Uh, Yeah. well, either way, I knew they were out there. I don’t think we competed against ‘em, but, you know, we competed against the different companies, right? So, uh—and I think there’s probably like 10 or 15 companies going on at one time, but I can’t remember. I can’t remember, but I know there was a lot of people. I mean, it was like a football field.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And the whole football field—it was probably a couple of football fields—and the whole place was busy, uh, with people doing stuff, right? From tug-of-war to sprints to, you know—I can’t remember all the stuff that was going on, but yeah. so that was pretty cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell me a little bit about your instructors? Who were they and what were they like?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so, um, I remember I had a, uh, colored, uh, guy and his name was—he was a DCC[sic], and, uh, I want to say his name was, uh—what was his—Gibson, and Then, uh, I had a, uh— I wanna say an MMC, which was—so a DC [damage controlman] was a damage controlman, who was like a firefighter, right? Basically an equivalent of, and then we had a, uh, MMC, and he could’ve been—either way, it’s not important, and they’re both chiefs and they’re pretty, uh—a little older. You know, maybe 45-50, or it seemed old at that time [<em>laughs</em>], but they were, uh, business. They were business. They were, uh—they were no joke. They were, uh, uh, very strict. They were, uh—didn’t smile a lot. But, um, you—you understood that they were in charge, and, uh, they—they were, uh—they were good leaders, and to this day, I—you know, I enjoyed my time, I guess, if you—you could say that. Because, you know, you get a good leader and it really makes things easy, because there’s not a whole lot of, uh, stuff you have to think about, right? So that—that—that’s pretty good.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What does MMC mean?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Machinist[‘s] mate. They, um—they, uh—they do a lot of the mechanical stuff on the boat. They—they are, uh—they’re kind of like a metal worker type deal.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing you remember doing at RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, I guess it was the—I guess it was the marching, you know? I mean, that sounds crazy, but, you know, I can’t dance. You gotta have a lot of rhythm, you know? And, uh, in fact, this is a funny story. Our, uh, recruit, uh, company commander, uh—and that’s the other part. So the recruit company commander is a recruit, just like all of u, but he’s the leader of the group, right? He’s, uh, designated. Uh, you really, uh—I didn’t see too many people volunteer for it. So we went through a couple of guys, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, I think at one point, I may have done it for like an hour, you know, till I got fired, right? But the, uh—the guy that stood out in my mind that had been the leader the longest was a—a tall, uh, black man, right? and he was pretty young. He was probably about the same age as most of us—about 20, and, uh—but yeah. he had it. He—he could do the marching. He had no problem calling off the, uh, cadences, and, um, yeah. He—so he—he was—he really, I think, turned our company around, because, um—I mean that was a tough part. I mean, if you can’t march, uh, you can’t get from one place to another, right? And it sounds ridiculous, because you go, <em>What’s the</em>, uh—I mean,<em> Why are we doing it?</em> right? <em>How does this help us run a ship or be in the Navy?</em> But it’s just one of those things where everyone has to do it. Everyone has to do it good[sic], and if you do good[sic] doing it, you look good, right? So, um, yeah. We went from not being able to, uh, um—you know, everyone being in the same step to be, you know, doing a marching band type deal, and, uh, remember: everything’s happening pretty quick[sic], right?</p>
<p>So at the end of the, uh, six to eight weeks—whatever it was—uh, we looked pretty sharp. That—that was a pretty big accomplishment, because I think that the day before graduation, we have a little private, uh—not private, I guess—but the families get to come and, you know, we’ll march, uh, up and down, and it’s pretty neat, you know? So good times.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>In addition to that, which sounds like that was a—a moment of pride for you, can you tell me another moment that you felt most proud?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, let’s see. Hm. Uh, I mean, boot camp—I guess, uh, everything was just kind of go, go, go. So um, I mean, I guess—I guess pride being the—no. I don’t know. Not—not really. I think the biggest part is just the accomplishments in the little stuff that you do, and nothing’s really major. The only reason that I remember the, uh, marching was because that was—I mean, that was tough for me. I was like <em>Man. Step. Step. What?</em> [<em>laughs</em>] And then, uh—but no. the rest of it was, uh, fairly, um—I mean—I don’t know—easy or—not easy. probably isn’t the word. Maybe it’s just you take each day, day by day. So yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What was the official purpose of the Grinder? And does it have any special significance to you?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so—so the Grinder is where you practice most of your marching, and, uh, the Grinder—yeah. It was painful. I mean, you’re just out there forever. You’re, uh, practicing these maneuvers. You’re, uh—um, and one of the key, uh, things that we went through was: you used to have to march with these old M1 [Garand] rifles, right? or maybe they were M14s. but if you can imagine, you know, a 3-4 foot long rifle that weighs 10-15-20 pounds, and you’re holding this thing forever, you know, it gets tiring, and at some point, they decided to do away with it and, uh—right in the middle of our training, and I was thanking whoever made that decision, because that was the worst, right? So things became a little easier by not having to carry that. But, uh, yeah. for the most part, the Grinder was where you spent a lot of your time, just—just kind of learning the, uh—the different marching steps and everything. I—I’m not sure. Have you—have you ever done any marching?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, I mean, it’s…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Well…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>It gives a—it gives a tr—like, to the band people…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>While they’re playing the music, and you just kinda go, <em>Wow</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong><em>Those guys are really</em>—I mean, uh—<em>Working hard</em>. ‘Cause it’s—it’s hard. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>My brothers…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen</strong></p>
<p>Were in marching band.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen <br /></strong>So I’ve seen the hard work</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>But I haven’t done it myself.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Well, thank—thank goodness [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, the decision to march without the rifles, Was that…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>I—I have no idea. All—all’s I know is, um—I remember classes before me and classes after me, um, uh, did have ‘em. So I’m not sure what—what the, uh—the issue was with that, but that brings up a good question of—yeah. Why? What was the, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Was it like that week that—that you’re supposed to stop marching with them? Was it something [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, I mean, most of the time…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>People kept them the whole time…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So I’m not really sure why—why they stopped that, and like I said, I think they brought ‘em back too.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So I’m sure it was someone’s, uh, good idea, or maybe someone got hurt, or—who knows? So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, can you tell me about other areas on the base, in addition to the Grinder, that were of particular importance…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>To you?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So—so the pool was a big one, right? And, uh, that was a good time and, uh, it really amazed me by how many people couldn’t swim. That was, uh—that kind of blew my mind, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>And, uh—but that— was a lot of fun, and then I remember, uh, Perimeter Room, and I’m not sure if it was called “Perimeter Room,” but it’s where we did our timed, uh, runs to make sure you’re, um—you could pass the, um—the PT, I guess, and then there was the—the gym, you know. So the gym—we worked out in there a few times. You know, I’m trying to—I guess we did have, uh, PT uniforms, but I can’t—I can’t remember putting them on all that much. I think we only did for the, uh—the out-test and the in-test. Either way, um—and let’s see.</p>
<p>Oh, you—you had the, uh—we had the, uh, firefighting trainer. The, um—and a lot of this I remember were— ‘cause those were, you know, the—the shooting range, where we’d have to shoot the guns. Um, the chow hall, of course, because we ate there a bunch. That was good times, and then, um—yeah. I just—I just remember this strip, you know, where the barracks were, right? It was kind of like—it almost—it’s a similar lay out of this building, you know? Kind of the long, narrow, um—I forgot how many stories it was, but you would come out of there and we walk down a—a street—marching down a street, and then, uh, based on, you know, kind of left to right, you may have some classes or classrooms, and then, uh, down at the very end, you’d have, a, uh—the chow hall, and the—the Grinder, I guess, was on the far, far right, and I can’t, you know—like I said, I can’t—if you go there now, none of it’s recognizable, and the other thing too is have you heard of the [USS] <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so I don’t know where that was in relationship. For us, it was right next to our barracks, but where—where it’s at now is unrecognizable, so it’s pretty unique.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell me about the <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>All’s I remember is we didn’t go on it and, uh, we took a picture in front of it, and, uh, to tell you the truth, I don’t know why we didn’t go on it. Yeah. It was kinda—kinda strange. I think maybe it was getting a little—a little older, you know? But yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What did it feel like to graduate?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so that was pretty—that was pretty cool. ‘Cause, um—I’m trying to think. What—what was the final thing that we did? Uh, let’s see. All’s I know is, uh, at the very end, they, uh—they bring out the flag and they start, uh, playing “America the Beautiful.” Or what was it? “[I’m] Proud to Be an American.” And, uh, yeah. So everyone got real emotional and it was pretty cool. But, uh, that’s what I remember, and, uh, I’m trying to think what—what culminated, uh, before that. You know, what—what lead up to that point, and, uh—hm. That’s—that’s kind of strange. I can’t remember what the, uh—But all’s I remember is when we were done, it—it was pretty awesome. Yeah. So it was pretty cool.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Was there a lot of people there watching?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, no. In fact, it was just our group. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh, really?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so—so that was, I guess, the, uh—the—the recruit phase kind of ending, right? That’s when, you know, you’re done being a recruit, and the next day you graduated, and that’s when they had, you know, all your friends and loved ones, whoever in the stands and you did the, uh, parade, the marching through and everything, but yeah. as far as a lot of people watching, for what we were doing before—I—I mean, honestly, I can’t—I can’t remember what we were doing. I mean, I can’t remember if it was drills or—hm. Yeah. I guess it’s been a long time. It’s pretty—but I do remember, like I said, when it was done, it was, uh—they bring the flag out and everyone was like “Whoa” It was pretty funny. Not funny, but it’s pretty—pretty, uh, neat to see everyone kinda, ya know…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And you get your hat, right?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>You know, we…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>We didn’t get a hat. It was kinda, uh, yeah. Like I said, there’s no hat. There was, uh—like I said, I just remember a pep talk, the flag, the music, and then, uh, the next day, I think we, uh, graduated.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And that took place on the Grinder, right?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Um, no, what—what you talking about the, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>The graduation.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So the graduation took place on the grass, which, um—I’m trying—I can’t really remember where that was at either, but no. the Grinder was—was separate. So yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And then what did you do for the Navy after you left RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so after the Navy, Uh—and this is kind of funny, ‘cause when I—before I joined, I was lookin’ at the different jobs, right? ‘Cause they have all kinds of jobs, and I was talking to the recruiter and he handed me a—a couple different, uh, cards, right? That listed the jobs and what they did, and, uh, you know, one of them was like torpedo’s mate, and so I looked at that one, and it says, “Must work in a,” uh, you know, “hot,” uh, “greasy environment,” right? So I was like <em>I don’t want that one, and</em> then I saw one that says—and plus, the school—the A school, which is the—the school that teaches you to do the job, it’s like in— I don’t know—somewhere—somewhere in the United States, and I see this one that says “EW,” which is Electronic Warfare, and, uh, it says, uh “Work in cool,” um, you know, uh, “dark climates,” you know, “in a—in a room with,” uh, you know—I don’t know. Anyways [sic], it sounded cool, right? ‘Cause it had the—It was Combat Information Center, so I didn’t—had no idea what it did, and then the bonus was the, uh, school’s in Pensacola. So, you know, I didn’t—that’s where I joined the Navy at, and that’s where my family was at. So I was like <em>I’ll take that job</em>, right? Had no idea what it did.</p>
<p>So, uh—and the other reason I joined the Navy is ‘cause I didn’t want to go to school, right? Which is kind of funny. So the first thing the Navy does—the Navy does after graduation is they send you back to school, right? Which is this Electronic Warfare, and it—you can imagine your—your radar detector in your car, or if, you know—you know the concept—and it picks up the emissions from the cops’, uh, radar gun. this is the same thing that—that the ship does, but it picks up the radars from airplanes, from other ships, from, you know, missiles, from whatever, and those signals are analyzed and you can actually tell what kind of car it is or, you know, what type of ship or airplane. So the whole time in school, they’re teaching you about these radar fundamentals. They’re teaching you about the propagation. Blah, blah, blah, and then they want you to memorize—like a telephone book—of all this parameters, right? And I’m not saying it—I mean, it’s rote memorization. There’s just no way around it, right? So you’d spend your nights trying to figure out how you’re going to memorize all these numbers, so if they popped up, you could, you know, say what it was. So that’s what would happen is, uh, you—you—you’d get with a buddy and figure out these ways to memorize stuff, and, uh—so yeah. We, uh, did that, and then after that, um—I guess that was maybe another eight weeks and then was off to Virginia, uh, for my first ship.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you take me from Virginia somewhat quickly to NAWCTSD? Can you walk me through?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s pretty easy.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How you got from one to the next?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so I did three years in, uh, Virginia, and uh, you know, the job was okay, but it was on a ship, and I saw a helicopter flying and I says[sic]. “That looks like a cool job.” I was coming up for reenlistment and I talked to one of my, uh, leading Petty Officers, and said, “Hey. This is, uh—I’d like to look at doing a different job.” He took care of me. He walked, you know—walked me through the whole process. Put a, uh, a package in, got accepted, and then, uh, for AW, which is Aviation Systems Operator—and then I get sent to Pensacola for Air Crew School, and, uh, I had no idea, but then I got sent to Rescue School—Swimmer School, which is in Pensacola, and, uh, I’m not sure if you’ve seen the movie [The] <em>Guardian</em>? With, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis <br /></strong>Who was it? Anyways[sic], so that’s the Coast Guard.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Oh, yeah, with…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Bruce…<a title="">[1]</a></p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Yeah—no. I think you’re right, and…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. The, uh, young kid, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That kid.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, right? [<em>laughs</em>] So like…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[Christopher]Ashton Kutcher.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Yeah, seen it.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis </strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>You did that?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis </strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, uh, yeah, I mean, once again everything—I mean, Hollywood makes everything look like Hollywood, right? But it’s pretty intense. I mean, you know, you’re doing stuff and you get pushed underwater and what not. So I did that then went to my first, um, Aviation Squadron in Jacksonville, and then, um, did five years there. So while—when I was on the ship, I did a six-month cruise, plus all the workups, you know, hit the Med[iterranean Sea], Um, you know—Greece, Spain, um—where else? I mean, uh, Croatia, and then, uh, you know—then I cross-rated. Then I went to my first Aviation Command. We did the same thing. Hopped on a carrier, did our six-month cruise right over to the Med. Uh, we did the [Persian] Gulf. Uh, you know. So that whole Europe and, uh, the rest of the area. Yeah. We just hit different ports in there.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>The Gulf? As in the Persian Gulf?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, the Persian Gulf. Right, and then, uh— and then I did that for five years. Did three cruises, plus all the associative workups. You know, we did Fallon[?] detachments in Nevada, and, um, we did Andros Island, Bahamas, and, um, yeah. It’s terrible duty, but you know, you’re gone a lot, so you take, uh—you take your good points with your bad, and then uh—oh, yeah. Then I went to the wing as an instructor in Jacksonville. So I was still working with the Aviation Commands, except I didn’t have to go on a cruise, and then, uh, after three years there, picked orders to, uh, [Naval Air Facility] Atsugi, Japan, which is right near Tokyo, and, uh, went over there and did four years in Japan on the [USS] <em>Kitty Hawk</em>, and, uh, we hit Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, um, and, uh, did some work in the Philippines for the, uh—the work on terrorism there. They have a big terrorist cell there that many people don’t know about, and, uh, we did, um— uh, it wasn’t tsunami relief. I guess it was, uh—I guess it was typhoon relief in the Philippines, but after I left, they did do a lot of tsunami relief, ‘because that was the—the area. So, uh—and then, uh, after Japan, came to NAWCTSD, Orlando, and did four years there and retired.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How did that assignment come about?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>The Orlando one?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, um, they have a list of assignments that you look up on a computer and, um, I said, <em>Boy, that would be a good one, if I ever plan on getting out, and</em>, uh, at that point, you know, it was pretty stressful. It, you know—I did the instructor duty and then I did the duty in Ja—in Japan, and, uh—so yeah. I was looking kind of for a, uh—a, um—actually, I—I loved the trainers, right? I loved the computers. So I thought that’d be a good fit and, uh, so I applied for it and it was open. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And when you got here, what were your first days like at NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, it was pretty cool. It was more of an office environment, and, uh, it was very different than, uh—from the Navy buildings. I mean, even though this is a Navy building, it’s predominantly filled by civilians. So the military’s a very small part of that, and, um, but for—for the most part it was, uh—it was nice, because, um, everything was ready for you when you got there. The, uh—all the, um, computers, the—the furniture, everything was very new. Very, uh, kind of, uh, high tech, you know? There—there’s just a lot of resources available for you to do your job, and, uh, back— in the—in the fleet, you know, you may not have that. You may have, you know, one computer for five or six guys, and then, uh, there’s just not a lot of space. So space this size that we’re in, you’d have up to 30 people trying to work out of there. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And speaking of your job, what were some of the things that you did? What were some of your primary responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So, uh—um, I guess, uh, for the aviation, the air crewman was being a rescue swimmer was the, uh, big one. So no matter when we flew or where we flew, you always had someone that had their—their gear with them, you know? You’re always SAR capable, which is Search and Rescue. So someone had to go in the water, you’d always have someone available. Um, so that was the number one, uh, thing that you did. The other part was, if we’re under way, uh, on the carrier that we were anti-submarine, uh, mission—meaning that we had a, uh, big sonar dome that would drop out of the bottom of the helicopter in a hover and you would stick that, you know— a couple hundred feet down in the water, send out a big sonic pulse, and see if you get any returns from the submarines. Uh, so that was another one, ‘cause that was pretty unique. You do that day or night, and, um, whether a sea state was 10-15-foot and the pilots are trying to stay in a hover, and, uh, so, yeah. that was pretty—pretty interestin’.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That was—was that at NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, no.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>So that was before?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so at NAWCTSD—the good thing about NAWCTSD is the needed the people from the fleet, because they would built the simulators that would act like, uh, you know real helicopters, right? So you’d go in there and you’d give them the subject matter expertise to say “Hey. This looks good,” or “This doesn’t good[sic].” Or you’d just liaison with the fleet and then go from there. So at NAWCTSD, the primary responsibility was program management or, uh, subject matter expert. So you’d kinda—kinda blur those lines a little bit, but, uh, for the most part, we were only there for 3-4 years, and the civilians have been there for a lot longer. So you’d come in and—and kind of assist them.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, you might have already answered this a little bit already, but can you tell me about the types of projects that you worked on with NAWCTSD and what they were trying to accomplish?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so—so, the funny this is—is, uh, I transferred from Japan, right? And when I first got to, uh, NAWCTSD, I meet my boss, and he’s a civilian guy, and, uh, he’s a UCF graduate—electrical engineering, so he’s a great guy.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Who’s that?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Uh, Jonathan Glass. So—In fact, he’s still my boss right now. He’s probably wondering where I’m at...</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>But if I tell him I’m here, he’s good, and then, uh—but yeah. So I get—I get to NAWCTSD, and I just, you know, been probably gone from Japan for maybe 2-3 weeks, ‘cause I took some leave, and they—they go, “Hey. We’re getting ready to deliver a trainer to, uh, to Japan.”" and it happened to be a—a simulator—a desktop simulator of the helicopter, uh, that I just, uh, got done flying it, and, uh, so—so in Japan, they don’t have the resources for new construction and for a, uh, new trainer. So they had this, uh—this desktop, um, simulator that would give you the tactical display and all the button pushin’, and, uh, we—we ended up delivering that right back to Japan, the squadron I’d just left.</p>
<p>So it was kind of funny that, uh—which brings up another funny story, ‘cause you got Mount Fuji in there, right? You’ve seen pictures of Mount Fuji? Well, I took my daughters up there. I think they were eight and ten at the time, and it’s pretty—it’s a pretty good climb. It’s volcanic rock, right? So, uh, I didn’t want to be the dad that pushed them and scarred them for life. So I was being positive, but I would kind of let them do what they wanted to do, right? Meaning that, you know, if they couldn’t make, uh—um, I didn’t want to push ‘em too hard. Anyways[sic], we ended up not making the top, and the rumor is, if you don’t make it to the top of Fuji when you’re there, you’ll end up coming back, and yeah. I never believed that, but low and behold, you know, after reporting to NAWCTSD, I end up going back. So isn’t that funny?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. That’s fantastic.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, it is fantastic. So, um, yeah. So basically we delivered a simulator back to Japan and, uh, that—that’s kind of what we do. Whatever, uh—so the ASW—the Anti-Submarine Warfare—Uh, the other part of, uh—I told you about the dome that lowers in the water. the other thing that we’ll do is we’ll drop microphones, and basically, uh—it’s called a sonobouy, but basically that’s what it is—is a microphone that you drop in the water, and you’re able to see the, uh, signature of the sub or whatever you’re listening to, and identify it, and if need, you know—if need be, drop a torpedo on it. Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you explain a little bit more about what a desktop simulator looks like and is?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so if—if you use your car as an example, and, uh, if—if, uh, uh, all the controls from the gear shift to the steering wheel to the, uh, radio station. So all that we put on to a computer, and, uh, we try to simulate the environment. So for us, it’s the ocean mainly, and, uh, the ocean is, uh, you know—it’s pretty complex, right? And then especially when you throw sound in there, the propagation paths can get really, uh, really difficult.</p>
<p>So the claim to fame for us is how much, uh, simulation do you need to do of the ocean to make it realistic for the acoustics? They start talking about fidelity and, uh, you know, then, um, realism and stuff like that, but—but that’s, uh—it’s a big trade off. Because if you have enough money, you can do anything right? Well, of course, we don’t have enough money. So, uh, we—there’s always a tradeoff. So a lot of that’s compromises, right? You make compromise in the visual system, or you may have to compromise in the size of equipment. So we would make our system mobile, put it on laptops, and, uh, the laptops, you know, in it—in itself, would compromise the, um— or maybe not. Yeah. I guess compromise the visual part of it. Meaning that you’re not gonna get real good visuals, but we’re not training the pilot how to fly the aircraft.</p>
<p>What we’re trying to do is train the crew to work together, right? So—so each computer would be a different station. You’d have the pilot station, the co-pilot, and then you’d have your sensor operator, and all three of those, uh, computers would be networked together to, um—to talk, you know, back and forth, because in the aircraft, same thing. Uh, You’re able to split duties between a tactical display, um, you know—so if, uh—if I send a contact, via my gear, to the tactical plot, The co-pilot can acknowledge that, and then you’d get a course and speed on the sub based on, you know, uh, different positions and time. So if—if you send a position over—position A— at a certain time, and then you send over position B at a different time and you, you know—you line it up, you know, you’re gonna get a course of speed, right?</p>
<p>So the gear would do that for us, but of course there was always some type of, um, uh, error built into the system whether it be, you know, the contact that, um—that you’ve entered in there was maybe a little off, and, uh—so you had to comp—you had to compensate for all that, and, uh, of course, the more context you had, the—the more the error would be averaged out, right? And, uh, so all that’s happenin’ pretty quick, right? And you may have a submarine that’s sending out counter measures, you may have equipment malfunctions, you know, you may have, uh, an inexperienced crew. So—there’s[?] just a lot of different, uh, aspects that go into training. Hey[?], and remember, you know, when the contact, or the sensor, uh, data that you’re looking at is—is just a line on the scope, you know, It—it may be a line that falls at 300 hertz, and then you have to determine what that is or, you know, put a bunch of different pieces of information together.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>Um, what, what’s the primary mission of NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis </strong>Yeah, so the primary mission of NAWCTSD and, uh—we have a missions statement, I’m tryin’ to, uh—it’s basically to support the fleet in, uh—in simulation, and, um, yeah. That’s probably the easiest thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay, and what do you think the future holds for simulation training here in Central Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so simulation, uh—I mean, we are the, uh, um, center of excellence for modeling and simulation. Uh, we are the Navy’s central resource, when it comes to, uh, modeling and simulation. We have a lot of the, uh, companies around the area that support the, uh—the industry, and that bring a lot of capability to the, uh—to the training, and, um, the, uh—the future, I think, is, uh—is pretty good. Just because, as new technology brings better, uh, fidelity and higher realism, you know, you’re able to kinda blur the—the concept between real and fiction, or—I don’t know how you say that.</p>
<p>So, If I can, uh—I mean, we’re getting to the point now where you put on the—the virtual, um, reality headset, and you’re now, as you turn and look—I mean, the—the—the screen is moving with you. So in this room, I could put on a virtual headset, and, um, it would give me the same, uh, dimensions, but of course, I could put a fire in the corner, right? And then I could react to that fire, based on, uh, where it’s at. So it’s getting really, uh, really good now.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>In what ways would you say that the simulation projects at NAWCTSD have impacted other branches of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so I think the, uh—the impacts, uh—and I can’t say, you know, how we’ve maybe impacted, but I think the synergy of all the different components of the services working together, and the lessons learned from each of the components all kind of being centralized in this area. There’s really no, um—uh, no other place where that happens.</p>
<p>I mean here you have the Marines, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, the Navy, uh, all working together, and in fact, uh, we’re now starting to include some, uh, state, uh, local, and other government, uh, organizations that can take advantage of, uh, the, uh—the training and the products that we’ve, uh, built here, and, um, so yeah. That[?]—I really can’t say. It—it’s really just the synergistic effect of everyone being together and the ability to, um, learn from each other.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen </strong>Thank you. Um, what would you say is one of the most valuable lessons you’ve learned from your time with the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, so it’s going to be teamwork. You know, No matter what you do in the Navy, no matter what you do in life, uh, normally it’s, uh—it’s not just one person that makes something happen, and, uh, the other good quote that I learned was to be a good leader, you must be a good follower, right? And, uh, I can’t—I can’t, uh, say enough of that quote, because somebody always thinks, uh, that the leader has it easy, right? Well, guess what? that leader has a leader, that leader has a, you know—so it goes—it goes, uh—someone always has to answer to somebody.</p>
<p>So—and that’s probably the one thing that the Navy’s taught me is I used to always say, <em>I can’t wait till I’m in that guy’s position, and</em> then I’m in that guy’s position, and go <em>Man, that’s a—that’s a lot of work.</em> So—but it’s good stuff. Yeah, and—and the other thing I learned to is, uh, if, um, there’s something that you want, you know, normally, you’ll have people that’ll help you out. They just need to know that’s what you want to do. So the people aren’t mind readers. You need to talk to them. You need to let them know what your, uh—what it is that you wanna do, and, uh, for the most part, I’ve never had a—a bad command or a, uh—a bad boss. I mean I’ve had some I’ve liked more than others, but for the most part, everyone have their certain characteristics that you’ll either agree with or disagree with, but as long as they’re—what they’re doing is honorable, then, uh—then yeah. That’s—that’s easy to, you know—person to follow. I tell ya, for the most part, I haven’t seen a, uh—a bad person in the Navy, you know?</p>
<p>And, uh, it’s too bad when you hear a lot of the stuff that goes on, because they’re—for now, or in today’s Navy, the Navy is almost zero defect, right? And, uh, back in the day—yeah. You—you did stuff that—that maybe wasn’t, uh—you didn’t want your mom to know about, you know? But, uh, the fact is is that, um—uh, how do I say this? You were, you know—you’re doing some pretty tough stuff, right? And that doesn’t give you a pass for—for—for being, uh, bad, but what it—what it did mean was that you could, uh—you could definitely have a good time, right? And be a little rowdy, but what it didn’t mean was you couldn’t be disrespectful, and—and definitely, uh, some of the changes we made are pretty good, but some of the changes are getting a little to, uh, you know, PC, right? Too much politically correct.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>We’ve got about two or so minutes left. is there anything else you’d like to share about your Navy experience. Maybe…</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Photos for the last two? Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[inaudible] And move it towards you.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Alright. So the cool thing about the Navy is all the different experiences that you get to, uh—places you get to visit, things you get to do. In fact, uh, when I, uh— I guess it was my second cruise when I was with the helicopters. We went to Cannes, France, and they were doing the Cannes [International] Film Festival, right?</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Well, of course, we don’t get to go inside, but we get to see everyone that walks in, so that was pretty cool, and we saw Henry [Franklin] Winkler. You know who he is? The Fonz. So we yelled to him and—and we were like, “Hey, Mr. Winkler!” And he gave us a—real, real good pep talk, but that was kind of cool, uh, but this is my buddy, and, uh, I’m actually the one taking the picture of this, and we took a—a we were in Australia, and we took the Australian, uh, Special Forces, and we were taking them up to, uh, Fasthrow[?]—and a couple of guys to go parachuting. So, this just happens to be, uh, one of the dogs they take with them and we actually, uh, lowered the dog down, and, uh—but yeah. He went flying with us so, and—and He looks to be having a good time, right [<em>clicks touchpad</em>].</p>
<p>So the, uh—the next picture—this is, um—so—sounds pretty exciting everything I’ve told you, right? Flying in the helicopters, huntin’ the submarines, uh, doing the rescue swimming, and all that, but a lot of it is—just imagine driving in your car or around the block, you know, like a hundred times. Because with the, uh—the systems we have in place now on the airplanes, they’re really safe, and, uh, mishaps, uh happen very rarely. So we would fly in what we’d call “Starboard[?] Delta” for up to three hours at a time and doing circles, right? And this is one of those times where, uh, we’re just kinda sitting at the back and it’s a good view and everything, but we’re just, uh, doing circles around the boat. Just waiting for something to happen so—but, you know, the whole time you’re talking, you’re training. It—it—it—but it does get a little monotonous.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you share the one of you guys coming out of the water?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Oh, yeah, yeah. So this one’s in Japan, and, uh, we’re just doing training, and, uh, once again, it’s—it’s pretty fun when you do that. But, uh, that’s—that’s a yearly quall. So we don’t get to do it all the time, but when it—when it does, um—and—and o this was, uh, maybe six years ago. The kid I’m coming up with, uh, he’s a 20 year old and, uh, pretty new to the Navy, and, uh, the cool thing about that is—is, uh, kids that join the military now—I mean, they’re expected to do some pretty awesome stuff. You know, either jump out of a helicopter, you know, patrol Afghanistan, and, uh, it really is amazing the quality of people that we have, uh, in the services today. So I—it’s—it’s—makes proud thinking of people, uh, you know, joining [<em>clicks touchpad</em>], and then so—here, uh—me and my Navy buddy Harold, uh, Lavine[?]. He’s, uh, retired Navy, works at Publix, I think, in Ocoee, or somewhere around there, but we’re just trying to promote the, uh—promote the Lone Sailor Memorial, and, uh—and pass the word. So that was that.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Great.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>[<em>clicks touchpad</em>] Oh [<em>laughs</em>]. So this—this is on the, uh—the—I think the [USS] <em>John C. Stennis</em>, when we were crossing the, uh—the Equator, and when you cross the Equator, you—you do—you do something that’s called a “shellback ceremony.” And if—if—if you’re not a shellback, you’re a wog, right? So this is one of the traditions in the Navy that’s maybe got a bad rap, because, uh, we’re out at sea and, uh, you know, we—we, uh—you know, they make you walk like ducks, they spray you with fire hoses. It—it’s really, uh, kinda hazing, but it’s a—it’s a mariner’s—a sailor’s tradition, right? So you get to dress up and, uh, just have a good time and, uh—but you know. Uh, Yeah. So anyway, that—that’s a shellback ceremony. So That’s where we get to dress up and do all that and that—that’s why we look the way we do [<em>laughs</em>]. Let’s see. Yeah. I think that’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Great. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Any last comments?</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>No, I, uh, appreciate the opportunity, and, uh, you know, I think today’s Navy is—is a better Navy than when I went through, and, uh, I just—I just hope that it continues to, uh, you know—people understand that the Navy is—is the people, right? You know, you can have the best ships, the best aircraft, but the—the people—the men and women in the services, uh, need, you know, our support, right? And as long as we remember history and remember, you know, what’s, uh—what happens, uh, I think we’ll—we’ll be good, but that’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Great.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah, well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Ennis<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Kevin Michael Costner.</p>
</div>
</div>
Afghanistan
Air Crew School
Anti-Submarine Warfare
Arthur Fonzaerlli
ASW
Australia
Australian Special Forces
Aviation Systems Operator
Aviation Warfare Sensor Operator
AW
Ayase, Japan
Cannes International Film Festival
Cannes, France
co-ed
co-educational
Community Veterans History Project
Competition Week
Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center
Corry Station NTTC
CVHP
desk-top simulators
dogs
education
Electronic Warfare
enlistment
Equator
EW
fleet replacement squadron aircrews
Fonzie
Gibson
Glass, Jonathan
Global War on Terror
graduations
Gulf Breeze
GWOT
Harold Lavine
Helicopter Squadron 1
Helicopter Squadron 14
Helicopter Squadron 5
helicopters
Henry Franklin Winkler
Henry Winkler
HS-1
HS-14
HS-5
humanitarian aid
inspections
instructors
Jonathan Glass
Jones, John Paul
Kendra Hazen
Little Creek, Virginia
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Marc Ennis
marching
memorials
Millington, Tennessee
Mount Fuji
NAS Atsugi
Naval Air Facility Atsugi
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
naval training
NAWCTSD
Operation Enduring Freedom
orlando
Pensacola
Philippines
pools
Port Hueneme, California
radars
recruit training
Recruit Training Center Orlando
rescue swimmers
RTC Orland
SAR
Search and Rescuer
shellback ceremonies
shellback ceremony
Sikorsky SH-60/MH-60 Seahawk
simulations
Starboard Delta
swimming
terrorism
The Fonz
The Grinder
The Guardian
training
typhoon reliefs
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. Navy
USS Blue Jacket
USS Gunston Hall
USS John C. Stennis
veterans
War in Afghanistan
WAVES
woman
women
Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service
Yamato, Japan
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/8dc754f78542e2b20a29fd8e3a923981.pdf
90a8914bd4d2c5bdbbead62142908165
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Connie Reuter
Alternative Title
Oral History, Reuter
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Martha Reuter (b. 1964), who is nicknamed Connie. Reuter was born in Abingdon, Virginia, on March 20, 1964. She enlisted in the U.S. Navy (USN) on May 7, 1984, and completed her service on April 1, 1988. Reuter re-enlisted just six months later in the U.S. Naval Reserve (USNR) and was discharged on October 31, 2005. Reuter attended Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). She later served at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Corpus Christi, Texas, and Naval Air Station Ingleside in Ingleside, Texas.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Leanne Wiggins on March 6, 2014. Interview topics include Reuter's background, enlistment, naval training, attending boot camp at NTC Orlando, serving was a woman in the Navy, graduation from boot camp, Liberty Call, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, the Grinder, serving as a photographer's mater, the Naval Reserve, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:35 Background<br />0:02:12 Enlistment<br />0:04:12 Boot camp at Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:08:49 Training as a woman in the Navy<br />0:11:15 Responsibilities and social interactions at boot camp<br />0:15:09 Training<br />0:17:19 Proudest and memorable moments<br />0:19:54 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:22:48 Chapel and chow hall<br />0:24:12 Graduation and Navy memorabilia<br />0:26:56 Serving as a photographer's mate<br />0:32:04 Naval Reserve<br />0:34:44 Values learned from the Navy<br />0:36:59 Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:41:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Martha Reuter. Interview conducted by Leanne Wiggins at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>. Interviewed by Leanne Wiggins. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/294/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014908</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a><a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>.
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 43-minute and 30-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>. Interviewed by Leanne Wiggins. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/294/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014908</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Corpus Christi, Corpus Christi, Texas
Naval Station Ingelside, Ingelside, Texas
World Trade Center, New York City, New York
Creator
Reuter, Connie
Wiggins, Leanne
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-06
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-06
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
373 MB
172 MB
Medium
43-minute and 30-second DVD audio/video recording
14-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Leanne Wiggins and Connie Reuter and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/lone-sailor-history/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/lone-sailor-history/.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Today’s date is Thursday, March 6<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Martha “Connie” Reuter, who served in the United States Navy. She served on active duty between May 1984 and April 1988, and as a [Naval] Reserve between October 1988 and October 2005. My name is Leanne Wiggins. I am interviewing Ms. Reuter as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Ms. Reuter, will you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I was born in Abingdon, Virginia. March 20<sup>th</sup>, 1964.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and, um, my dad was a, um, pastor—Lutheran minister.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>And, uh, one older brother.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, we moved, uh, a couple of times during my childhood. Um, started out, uh, around Shenandoah, Virginia. Moved to Martinsville, Virginia. I spent most of my, uh, ah, years in, uh, Martinsville, and then, um, moved to, uh, Newton, North Carolina, for, uh, my junior and senior year of high school.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I was, uh, uh, trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life [<em>laughs</em>]. So I was working, um, at a Hardee’s. I had gone to school for retail merchandising. Um, decided, uh, not to go that route. Was trying to figure out what to do, and, uh, one of my friends came through and said “Connie, let’s join the Navy.” And we were going to go in on the [Navy] Buddy [Enlistment] Program. And, uh, I went to a recruiter about three times. The fourth time I said, uh, “If I’m going to go, I’m going to go now.” and, uh, I signed on the Delayed Entry Program in February, and I left for boot camp in May. My friend did not go [<em>laughs</em>]. So it was just me.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So why did you choose the Navy, as opposed to other branches of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>As, uh—basically, I had no clue. I just, uh—like I said, when she came through and said, “I got a[sic] idea. Let’s join the Navy,”—’cause her boyfriend had joined, and, um—uh, was like, “Great.”</p>
<p>I have, uh—some of my relatives, um, are—have also been in the military. My cousin, who was in the Air Force, my uncle, uh, in the Army, and then my grandfather was in the Army. But it wasn’t, uh—I didn’t live near any big military bases, so I really didn’t—didn’t know. So I said—when she decided—when she said, “Let’s join the Navy,” I— Alright.” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How did, uh, your family members feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I think they were—they were definitely, uh, proud. Um, shocked, because I did all that and, uh, going to the recruiter and everything, um, without telling them [<em>laughs</em>]. So, um, after I had already join[sic], came home and told them.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, eh, Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And were you trained to do—what were you trained to do for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, while I was [inaudible] —I came in non-designated, so I didn’t decide ahead of time what career I wanted to do in the Navy. So I, uh—after, uh, boot camp, I went to Airman Apprenticeship Training School. And, um, from there got my, um, first duty station, talked to the Navy career counselor, and decided from there.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>When did you begin your training at NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, May 7<sup>th</sup>, 1984.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Before coming to NTC Orlando, what did you know about the region, militarily or otherwise?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Nothing, uh, military-wise. And, of course, for Orlando, all you basically hear about is, uh, Walt Disney World. I had, a, uh—a [sic] uncle and cousins, who lived here. And so we had come down, um, once to visit them, and we went to Walt Disney World when I was a kid. And, um, so that’s all I knew. I had no idea about the military.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I did the, uh, eight weeks of boot camp. And then, I believe Airman Apprenticeship Training was an additional four weeks. And, um, so then I left, all total, ‘round September.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>When you first arrived, what was your first impression of the base or the area?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, well, when I first arrived, it was at night. Um, I was 20 years old, and that was my, uh, first time being on a commercial airplane. So, um, the MEPs [Military Entrance Processing] station was in Charlotte, North Carolina. So I flew from Charlotte to Orlando, as my first time on a commercial airplane. And, uh, it was at night. Uh, don’t remember much [<em>laughs</em>], okay?</p>
<p>Uh, I know we had a bus, came right to the base, um, uh, everybody—when I came into the barracks, most of everybody was in their bunks already going to sleep. Um, I remember getting in my bunk, and then, uh, realizing I had to go to the bathroom. Scared to ask if I could get up and go to the bathroom, But I did, [<em>laughs</em>] and, uh—um, so then, I went back to sleep and woke up the next morning and that’s when it all began.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what were your first days of service like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Pretty, um, uh, regimented—routine. Start dinner routine, start, uh, issuing, um, uniforms. uh, even though I had, uh, cut my hair short before I came to Orlando for boot camp, um, because I thought that, uh, you know, <em>If I’m going to have my hair short, I want to be able to kind of, you know</em>—<em>well, do it myself</em>. [<em>laughs</em>] Well, it didn’t matter. You still went to the barbershop. They still cut some more off, even though it was already short. So I had, uh, um, short hair for the first time in my life [<em>laughs</em>]. And, um, uh, like I said, everything was pretty much, uh, just routine. You did as you were told. You stood where they told you to stand, listen to instructions, and everything. And if you listened well, you got along great.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what was it like to be a woman at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, it—it really didn’t, uh, bother me at all being a woman at NTC Orlando. Um, I didn’t have any problems at boot camp. Um, I know some of my bunkmates, uh, uh, did. Um, and it wasn’t necessarily—I don’t think—because of a woman. It’s just a—a different—it’s an adjustment.</p>
<p>Um, but, uh, uh, we—the boys were still around. Uh, we had—went to classes with them. Um, saw them in the—at chow halls. All that. But we didn’t march with them, didn’t have them in the barracks, uh, and on—or anything. But, um, I remember we called them “trees.” and you were not allowed to look at the “trees” or anything.</p>
<p>But, um, one of the best pieces of advice that I got before I left for boot camp, was my friend’s boyfriend, who was in the Navy already. He said “When they first ask you to raise your hand—to be on either the color guard, drill team, flag guard—raise your hand.” So I was like, “Okay.” So as soon as my company commanders, you know, asked that question, I raised my hand and they picked me and it was the best advice I had ever gotten. Uh, I had a really good time being on the drill team. Uh, you were on the drill team with the boys, so therefore you could talk to them [<em>laughs</em>] and meet them. Um, uh, I got out of a lot of other inspections, a lot of the PT [physical training], um, all that, because we had to go to drill practice. And so again, that was the best advice I could have ever gotten.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So besides your responsibilities with the drill team, what were—did you have any other primary responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>No. That was it in boot camp. just, uh, keep everything in shipshape, um, make up your bunk correctly, have your clothes folded correctly, um, clean the barracks some, uh, go to classes, and, uh, that was about it.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what was your overall impression of the recruits and their training during your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I felt it was very good. Um, uh, as—I felt comfortable. Um, I felt like I could trust them. Um, I said I didn’t have any problems. Um, when they yelled—you know, the company commanders yelled or—or whatever, but, you know, it didn’t bother me. I just let it roll—roll off my back. You know, do what they say. That’s it. Um, it, uh, definitely taught me a lot. Um, for, uh—everybody should go through it [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>It was mainly my, um—the bunkmates that were closest to me. So, um, I was in the lower bunk, so, uh, my shipmate, who was in the top bunk, uh, we became very good friends. And the shipmate pretty much right next to me, we became really good friends. And, um, uh, other than that there was, uh, one of—one of my, um, boot camp, uh, ladies that were[sic]—that was in my company, she got stationed at the same place I did for the first duty station. So, uh, when I went to my first duty station, I already knew one person. So that was great. Um, and then a couple years later, while I was there, uh, one of, um—another girl that I was in, uh—I was in boot camp with, got stationed there, and so we became really good friends after that.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Who were your instructors, and what were they like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>We had, uh, the company commanders, um, was[sic] Hines[sp] and Merritt[sp] —um, Petty Officer Hines and Petty Officer Merritt. Um, of course, I do not know their first name, [<em>laughs</em>], because you don’t have first names in boot camp. Uh, everything is by your last name. But, um, again, like I said, when they—they would, you know, yell if they had to.</p>
<p>Um, I remember one time, you know, they asked you about what a gig line is, and I had no idea. And, um, you know, they would go around and ask everybody, and none of us knew, but we learned awfully quick[sic] what a gig line was. And [<em>laughs</em>] that’s something you’ll never forget.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was a gig line?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>That is the line on your shirt that overlaps, it lines up with your belt buckle all the way down. That’s the gig line.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing that you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>sigh</em>] Oh, gosh. Um, I don’t know about the hardest. There was, uh, a couple—uh, we did go in the gas chamber, and, uh, so it was kind of scary. Um, and, uh, you know, you all go in as a group. They tell you to take your mask off. You start feeling the, uh, um, burn. And, uh, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] I remember one of our girls in the company, way in the back, was like “Help!” And she had such a high pitched voice and everybody started laughing. And, um, so then, um, they—by that time, they finally—they opened the door and you all came out. But, um, you experience that.</p>
<p>You experienced, um, putting out a fire and, uh, putting out a fire on a ship with a big hose and working together as a team. Um, you experienced, uh, swimming, and how to survive in swimming and using your clothes as floatation devices.</p>
<p>Um, that’s the first time I’d ever shot a gun, uh, I think it was a, uh, .45 [caliber handgun]. And, um—so that was an experience. Um, so I can’t really say anything was really hard. I was already fairly physically fit before I went in. um, and I could—I listened well and took instructions well.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was a moment that you felt the most proud?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Um, graduation [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was graduation like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, uh, my parents had come down, and, um, my uncle had come over. And, uh, uh, it was a good time. And we went also went on a Liberty Call. And, um, I went with my parents, and—and, uh, couple of my, um, uh, friends from boot camp. I went to SeaWorld [Orlando], and, uh—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Can you tell me a story of a time at NTC Orlando that you’ll never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Oh, let’s see. There’s several. Um, oh [<em>laughs</em>], I’ll never forget—um, after boot camp, I was at a—I went to, uh, Airman Apprenticeship Training School, which was, uh, another additional four weeks. And during that time, we could have, uh, Liberty Call at around 16:00 to 16:30— somewhere around there. Never failed. Orlando, during that time frame, would, uh—there would always be a huge thunderstorm downpour, uh, right at Liberty Call. So right when you were getting ready to go out on the [<em>laughs</em>] town or whatever, um, and have a little bit of your own time, they would have to cancel Liberty Call. And it would only last about an hour, and then Liberty was open. So it [<em>laughs</em>] —never failed. And still to this day [<em>laughs</em>] [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How would you describe the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and its function?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, I think, uh, back then, it was, uh, a very good replica of a Navy ship. And, uh, I said that is where we went to learn how to, uh, fight a fire on a ship, to work as a team. um, and, uh, even though, during my Navy career [<em>laughs</em>], uh, I never went out to sea—I was on the land on shore—but, uh, I’m sure, uh, it was—it was a good replica for the real thing.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the official purpose of the Grinder, and what was its significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>The Grinder was, uh, where you marched and you marched [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, you also did the PT out there. Uh, the Grinder was a large, um—uh, what was it? Concrete or asphalt area. Um, big rectangle that you just marched up and down. And, uh, so you learned how to march in a straight line, you learned how to, uh, take the corners while you’re marching, and, um, you spend a lot of time out on the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What other trainings went on at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, again, as I said, I went to Airman Apprenticeship Training School, and, um—but there were also, um, Nuclear Power School out there, and—um, which of course, while you’re in boot camp, you don’t know that anything else is going on around you, except for your little area. But, um, uh, during Airman Apprenticeship Training School, you could, uh, get to know a little bit more of the base. And, uh, you could go to the, uh—also during boot camp and afterwards, go to the chapel on Sundays, and—and, uh, so you get to learn a little bit more.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Were there any other areas on base that were of particular importance to you?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, besides the chapel? It was, uh, the chapel [<em>laughs</em>]. And, um, another thing I will also never forget is: when you march up, getting ready to go into the chow hall, there is, um, uh, a recruit up there who has this big spiel about, uh, “You have 20 minutes, and 20 minutes only to eat your fine Navy chow.” and, uh, I know that there’s more, but, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] that’s the line that I remember. And, uh, you just went into the chow hall, got your food, ate. There were always huge, um, bottles of peanut butter on the tables, because peanut butter, uh, was more sustaining, and to—to help you keep full, if you needed to or whatever. But, uh, uh, you would always put peanut butter on, on the, uh, uh, chocolate bars, the ice cream, or make peanut butter sandwiches, or something, but there was always a huge jar of peanut butter.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] So what did it feel like to graduate and finally put that hat on?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] This was, uh, um, my cover that I got from, uh, boot camp. This was issued to me during boot camp. Uh, one of the, uh, things that I realize now is that, uh, we, back then, wrote our full Social Security [Insurance] number in, uh—in our, some of our gear. Uh, so I still have [<em>laughs</em>] my full Social Security number, uh, written in here. But, uh, it definitely has all of the stains from, uh, many years of—of wear.</p>
<p>Um, I was also issued, uh, “birth control glasses.”<a title="">[1]</a> So I still have my “birth control glasses,” that, uh—and you could not wear contacts. You had to wear these “birth control glasses” during boot camp, and after, um, boot camp, during Apprenticeship Training School, then I could, uh, wear my contacts. But, uh, these were lovely [<em>laughs</em>], But hey. Everybody that needed glasses had them. Uh, we all, for the most part, looked the same.</p>
<p>This is, uh, still my, uh, uh, tie that was issued in boot camp. I still have, uh, my initials, um, engraved—or, uh, inked on there. That was another one of the things that as soon as you were issued your gear, you all, uh, went in a line and, uh, with the stencil, and then, uh, stenciled all your gear. So, uh, this was the first time that I was issued.</p>
<p>And, um, this was, uh, the picture of my mom and dad at, uh, graduation. And this was just a picture that they took of me in, uh, front of the sign. And then this was just my, uh, first, uh, photograph.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Did you want to share anything else of the memor—memorabilia you brought?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, later on, uh, when, I got to my first duty station, and finally decided what I wanted to be in the Navy, that is when I decided to, uh, uh, be a Photographer’s Mate. And, uh—so I went and, um, during that time, the Photographer’s Mate rating was open, meaning that they needed people to be photographers in the Navy, so I was like, “I can take pictures.” So I decided to [<em>laughs</em>] —to go that route.</p>
<p>And, um, this is my, um, rating badge. Uh, that is, uh, no longer, uh, used in the Navy. This, uh, was, uh, the Photographer’s Mate rating badge, it’s an IFKA[?]. And the wings represent, uh, that we were—that it was the air-dealt rating. So um, now the Navy has combined three ratings into one. So, uh. Now there are no more Photographer’s Mates. They have a new rating.<a title="">[2]</a></p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So tell me a bit more about your experience as a Photographer’s Mate.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Again, that was, uh, very, um, thrilling, and, a lot of fun. You were up front, uh, of everything, because you had to get the picture. And, um, you also got to tell, uh, some of the officers, uh, what to do, where to stand, and, uh, you know, what to do. So that was always fun [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, um, there was always some, some—some, uh, great opportunities.</p>
<p>I, uh, had to take pictures of, um, a wheels-up landing. I was stationed in, uh, Corpus Christi, Texas. And, um, a [Beechcraft] T-34 [Mentor] was coming in for a landing, and the wheels would not come down. The landing gear would not come down. So, um, we—me and another Photographer Mate went out to shoot, um, pictures of this wheels-up landing to document it. And I was shooting the stills, and he was shooting the video. But, uh, at first, I was nervous and—camera was shaking while I was trying to take the pictures [<em>laughs</em>] but, uh, you know, we had the fire trucks there, and they just came right in on the belly of the plane—skid right in—and, uh, they were fine. Thank goodness.</p>
<p>But, um, uh, I also went to take pictures of, uh, Naval Station Ingleside[, Texas], which is no longer there already [<em>laughs</em>]. The Navy’s already sold it back to Corpus Christi. But, uh, uh, we took the groundpreak[sic]—groundbreaking pictures of, um, Naval Station Ingleside.</p>
<p>And, uh, so it’s just, um—it was always cool to be a part of history—document history. Um, uh, document, uh, happy occasions, lots of, uh, changes of command ceremonies, lots of promotion ceremonies, retirement ceremonies.</p>
<p>Um, and uh, document some not-so-good things. You also were on duty, um, and when it was your duty day, and you got called, I had, um, three different suicide attempts. So you had to go and document, um, the scene and what had happened. And, uh, one guy had tried to slit his wrist, so you’re documenting all the blood and all that. And, uh, um, another person had jumped out a second story window. Um, so you have to go, you know, just document. And, uh, so, you never knew what was going to happen. What you were going to be called to do. So it was—it was exciting.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Do you recall the day that your active service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, I was on active duty for four years. And, um, as I said, I was stationed in Corpus Christi, Texas, and that was my first duty station. And from there, uh, I had met my future husband, so I decided—we got engaged, and I decided to, um, get out of the Navy, uh, so we could get married.</p>
<p>And, uh, from there, I stayed in the Reserves. So, um, the remaining of my time, I, uh, did the, you know, uh, weekend-a-month, two weeks a year Reserve drill. Uh, still as a Photographer’s Mate. And, uh, that worked out well, because I was able to do my Reserve duty anywhere that, uh, he was stationed, because he was still active duty Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So when you were not doing your Reserve duties, what were you doing otherwise?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was very lucky to be able to, uh—once we had our first child, to stay at home. And, uh, so, uh, the majority of my time was as a stay-at-home mother. Uh, we ended up, uh, with three children, so [<em>laughs</em>], uh—and fairly close together, so that…</p>
<p>[<em>vacuum cleaner</em> <em>turns on</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Kept me busy. But, um, uh, we, uh—I also would do, uh, other different things, uh, besides my Reserve time, to, uh, just stay active as far as, uh, either within their school, being a substitute teacher, going and helping out and volunteering. Um, uh, doing, uh—did the realtor for a couple of years, did pampered chef for a couple of years. So anything that I did, I made sure that my schedule, I could still be home.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Hm, um, [<em>sighs</em>] I think I had, um, a lot of good values, um, already instilled in me from my parents, uh, that the Navy and the military, um, uh, you know, uh, possesses, and that’s, uh, good character, uh, teamwork. There’s the honor, courage, and commitment. Um, uh, I always felt that, uh—I said, “If they were your shipmate, uh, and you were in trouble, they would be there to help.” um, so just—just a little bit more of, of continuing of what my parents had already told me.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the most valuable lesson that you learned, um, in your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Hm, um, as I said, just be a—be a team player. It’s—it’s not about you. It’s getting the job done, keeping everybody safe, um, keeping the country safe, um, being a team player.</p>
<p>[<em>vacuum cleaner</em> <em>turns off</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How has NTC Orlando base or the Central Florida region changed since the time you originally spent here?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Oh, goodness. A lot. Uh, when we—my family and my husband—me and my husband and—and our three kids—um, moved back to Orlando, because, uh, he was being stationed here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training System Division], um, I was like, you know, [<em>laughs</em>] “Let’s go see where, uh, NTC Orlando was.” Where was I? Where did I go to boot camp? Uh, I knew that the base had been closed, but—I don’t know. I guess I was expecting to see something, um, and there was really nothing. Nothing there to show that the Navy had been here, as far as a, um, boot camp. And like, you know—like we’ve talked about, with the, um—the Grinder, the—the big replica of the, you know, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> ship, uh, um, there was nothing. Uh, the chapel [<em>laughs</em>]—and nothing and so I was very surprised.</p>
<p>And, uh, I said, I was, um, very pleased to, uh, find a group who was trying to do something about that. And, um, so since that time, I have, uh—me and my husband have volunteered to be on the, uh, committee, to get, uh, something to show where NTC/RTC [Recruit Training Center] was. um, so that people can not only come to take their kids to Disney World or SeaWorld or, um, Universal Studios [Orlando], uh, but if they went to boot camp, they can bring them to an area, uh, that they can show their kids where they were during that time frame. I, um—when I retired, the Lone Sailor [Memorial Project] statue was the, um, one thing that I wanted as a retirement gift, and so I’m very proud.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So when they come back to visit the memorial, what do you think Naval personnel would like to see?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, I think they would like to see, uh, um, pictures of, uh, the way—to—to show the way it used to be—what was really there. Because, you know, now it’s a Baldwin Park community. um, so it’s just really, I feel, interesting to see, um, old pictures of—of when we were there, Um, maybe a little write up of the history, um, and, um, of course, not only a—a male Lone Sailor, but a, hopefully, one day, we get a female Sailor statue there also, to represent, um, the men and women who went to boot camp there.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What do you think is the lasting legacy of the NTC Orlando or the Navy to the Central Florida region?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, just that it—it, uh—it’s a lot of good people. It, uh, helped a lot of people grow up, and become, uh, great, um, adults—giving adults—back to their communities and country, um, sacrificing what you have to have sacrifice for the good of all.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Is there anything else that you would like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, it was definitely, uh, a good, good experience. Lots of, uh, memories. Lots of opportunities. Lots of opportunities to travel to different places, um, meet different people, uh, lots of—build lots of lasting friendships, um, see and do many different things.</p>
<p>Uh, during one of my two weeks of active duty, I was in New York City for Fleet Week, and during that time was when they, um, brought out the last beam for, uh, the World Trade Center. and I was manning the rails as they brought out the last beam, and I was all the way down—the bottom of World Trade Center—and, uh, at Ground Zero. And, uh, to just be down there and look up—amazing.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Well, I want to thank you very much for your time and for giving this interview, and for all of the wonderful experiences that you have shared with me.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> G.I. glasses.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Mass Communications Specialist.</p>
</div>
</div>
Abingdon, Virginia
active duty
Airman Apprenticeship Training School
Baldwin Park
basic training
Beechcraft T-34 Mentor
birth control glasses
boot camps
chapels
chow halls
church
churches
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
Connie Reuter
Corpus Christi, Texas
CVHP
Delayed Entry Program
DEP
drill teams
education
educators
enlistment
eyeglasses
females
firearms
Fleet Week
G.I. glasses
gas chambers
gig lines
glasses
graduations
Ground Zero
guns
Hines
inactive duty
Ingelside, Texas
instructors
Leanne Wiggins
Liberty Call
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Martha Reuter
memorials
MEP
Merritt
military education
Military Entrance Processing
military training
NAS Corpus Christi
Naval Air Station Corpus Christi
Naval Air Station Ingelside
Naval Air Warfare Center Training System Division
Naval Training Center Orlando
Navy Buddy Enlistment Program
NAWCTSD
New York City, New York
NS Ingelside
NTC Orlando
orlando
peanut butter
Petty Officer, Second Class
photographer's mates
photographers
photography
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
RTC Orlando
sailors
ships
suicides
T-34
teachers
The Grinder
training
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
USN
USNR
USS Blue Jacket
veterans
weather
woman
women
World Trade Center
WTC
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9d752cd3aa575d9fec8b61845098d41a.pdf
8029e7962c673e092163f97adfd6ad89
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Young, Mary Hughes
Interviewee
Levine, Lawrence "Larry" Paul
Location
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video recording
Duration
41 minutes and 6 seconds
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Lawrence Paul Levine
Alternative Title
Oral History, Levine
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Air Force
Description
An oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine (b. 1947), who enlisted in the U.S. Air Force (USAF) in August of 1966, just after being drafted into the U.S. Army. Levine was born in Rochester, New York, on June 8, 1947. He served in Europe during the Vietnam War, until he was discharged on August 31, 1970. Levine received a Good Conduct Medal for his service.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Mary Hughes Young on April 1, 2014. Interview topics include Levine's background, his enlistment in the Air Force and drafting into the U.S. Army, basic and advanced training, being stations in Europe, getting married voerseas, returning to the U.S. after being discharged, and his life as a civilian afterward.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:02:38 Draft and enlistment<br />0:06:42 Basic training at Lackland Air Force Base<br />0:10:06 Sharpshooting and career assignment<br />0:13:52 Advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base<br />0:21:16 Assignment in Europe<br />0:26:55 Relationships with other servicemen and assignments<br />0:30:15 Getting married overseas<br />0:31:09 Rank and discharge<br />0:33:30 Life after service<br />0:36:28 Treatment from civilians<br />0:37:29 How service affected civilian life<br />0:39:15 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine. Interview conducted by Mary Hughes Young at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/277/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014898</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 41-minute and 6-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Rochester, New York
Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island
U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, Providence, Rhode Island
Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas
Amarillo Air Force Base, Amarillo, Texas
McGuire Air Force Base, Burlington County, New Jersey
Rhein-Main Air Base, Germany
Shaw Air Force Base, Sumter, South Carolina
Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, New York
Creator
Levine, Larry
Young, Mary Hughes
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-04-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-04-01
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
353 MB
224 MB
Medium
41-minute and 6-second audio/video recording
28-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mary Hughes Young and Larry Levine and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Transcript
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>Recording.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Today [<em>clears throat</em>] is April the 1<sup>st</sup>[, 2014]. I am Mary Hughes Young, and I am interviewing Lawrence Paul Levine.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Who served in the U.S. Air Force [<em>sniffs</em>]. Um, This is part of the University of Central Floride—Florida’s Community Veterans History Project, and we’re recording this interview at University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Okay. Larry, tell me first about when and where you were born.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was born in Rochester, New York, in 1947.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did you live there for all of your educational years?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, primarily, yes. Yes. I, uh, graduated college in Rochester also, after the—after my service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, do you have brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. I have two brothers.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Two. So there were three of…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. There were three of us in the family.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where were you in the birth order?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, I’m the oldest.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>The oldest? Okay. What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, my father had a number of different jobs. Uh, He was a bread salesman for Thomas’ English Muffins for a while, and then worked for a supermarket chain as one of their managers of one of their stores. Um, my mother was pretty much of a stay-at home mom. Um, She became very si—very sick, um, at a very young age and—and passed away at a very young age also. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And how old were you when she passed away?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was, uh, 20.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>20? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>21.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Were any of your family members or extended members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. My father—my father was. He was in World War II. He, uh, was an in-flight radio operator in—at that time, was the Army Air Corps, uh, which then became the Air Force. Uh, in-flight radio operator and served over in India, going back from Karachi to Calcutta, India.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, tell me about your education before you went into the military.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I, um, graduated high school in 1964. Uh, was accepted to Brown University, um, in Providence, Rhode Island. [<em>clears throat</em>] Finished one year there, and then my mother became very ill, and I had to come back home, which led me into the next phase of my life of being in the—in the military. Um, so that was prior to me going into the service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, And why did you decide to go into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, uh, because I came back home and had to help the family out. Uh, during that time, it was the Vietnam War, obviously—back in the—in the [19]60s. Um, in all honestly, I was ultimately drafted.</p>
<p>Now, there was a[sic] interesting—very interesting story that leads up to that. Um, When I came back home, I went to work for the U.S. Customs Service. My background is primarily: I was going to school in business and accounting, and I was fortunate enough to get a job [<em>clears throat</em>] with the U.S. Bureau of Customs [and Border Protection] in Rochester. Uh, went to work for them full-time. Did a number of j—jobs for them, primarily in the accounting area, and also, uh, did a few clearances of planes and—and ships and that system, where I need to, in that particular area. But I worked in the, um, government, uh—in the state office building—actually, it was a Federal building. It wasn’t even a state. It was a Federal building, because it was U.S. Customs.</p>
<p>And, uh, the draft board was right downstairs from my offices. And I became very friendly with a number of the different people who worked in the draft board, and informed them of my situation: that, uh, I was eligible for the draft, because I wasn’t going to school full-time. I was going to school part-time. Uh, they had informed me at that particular time that, “No—no worries. No problems.” That, uh, I would be safe, because I knew everybody there. And low- and behold, before I knew it, my letter from Uncle Sam came and said I was drafted.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I went back to the [<em>laughs</em>]—to the, uh, draft board and said, “What happened here?” And their excuse was, “Oh, we’re sorry. It got by us,” and everything like that. So, um, in ess—in essence, I was drafted, but before I was drafted, I enlisted in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, and was this before the lottery was in effect?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. The lottery was in effect, if I’m not mistaken. Um, the—there was a lottery, and I had a pretty, pretty low lottery number.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Meaning that I was very eligible for the draft. Uh, I wasn’t going to Canada. I wasn’t going any place, but I was informed again by the draft board that I’d be safe. And, uh, low and behold, I wasn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Because of the work you were doing?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. It’s just that—because I knew people at the draft board, who said if they saw my name come up, they would pull it [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Okay. Well, how did you feel about being drafted then? Um, was it—was it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A big shock?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Shock. Uh, the first thing, obviously, that came to my mind, was: <em>Well, if you’re drafted, then you’re going into the Army. And if you go in the Army, you are going to carry a gun. If you carry a gun, you’re going to go to Vietnam.</em> So, uh, when that—when that happened, obviously, the family was very concerned about it. And, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so—so…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They didn’t want me to go. So I figured it would be best if I went into the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right. And so you signed up for the Air Force…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right after you were drafted?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And So your family was feeling</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Concerned about the situation too?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They were more concerned, obviously, during that whole period of time, but not as concerned if I allowed myself to be drafted in the Army.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Into the Army. Okay. How about your, uh peers? You friends or girlfriend? How did they feel about you going into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, my friends were kind of like, <em>Better you than me</em>, at that particular time. Uh, I’m sure most people realized that was not the greatest time in our history for the military. Most people were looked down on in going into the military. Uh, I had some tough experiences myself with that particular situation. Uh, my girlfriend, at the time, was pretty much—said, “If you are going into the military, then I’m not waiting around for you, so,” [<em>laughs</em>] “I’m—I’m gone.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>As if you had a choice, right? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. As if I had a choice. Right. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, well, now you’re in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where did you do your basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. I was there in August of 1966.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, uh, what were your expectations of— being in the, uh—in basic training? Did you—did you have any idea of what was going—what it was going to be like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. I had an idea, but I didn’t—I didn’t think it would be as bad as it really was. Uh, I was in good shape at the time, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Weighed a lot less than I do now. And, um, expected it to be a little different, uh, physically and mentally. Uh, The aspects of basic training are obviously to get you in a situation to where you are able to accept orders, and you’re able to—be able to do things when they’re—when you’re told to do them. And, uh, I accepted that without any problem. It’s just—there’s a little more physical on my body than I had anticipated.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. The marching…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was a typical day like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>The typical day is we get up at like five in the morning—4:30-5 o’clock in the morning, and we’d have to make our bunks and get everything straightened away for the day. We go to me—the mess hall, where we had breakfast. And that was one of the things that surprised me, because we just didn’t take our time in—in being able to eat breakfast. We were given a certain amount of time to get in line, eat our breakfast, and get ready to go outside. It was a lot shorter than I had anticipated. So, uh, my eating habits had to change very quickly, because of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, after that, we would do either calisthenics or marching. Um, go to the gun range, which kind of surprised me, because I didn’t think I would be shooting a gun. Uh, had qualified in the—in the gun range.</p>
<p>And had different classes on just general military, um—you know, the way of life of a—of a person in the military. Uh, Things—how to handle yourself, how to be able to, uh, you know, again, take orders, and anything that had to do with the military. Military history, all of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And this—how long was your basic training? How many weeks?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, wow. You see, I—that—I, uh—I want to say eight weeks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Eight weeks? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it might be a little bit longer than that. I mean, that’s 40—what? 40—safe[sic] —48 years ago. And [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[inaudible]. I really didn’t wanna do any…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not for everybody[?].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Research on that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You know there’s an end to it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not gonna be forever.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s absolutely correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what were your instructors like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] I thought the meanest people in the world, okay? They didn’t take any—they didn’t take anything from anybody.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, which is what they were supposed to do. You were supposed to be there to listen to them. Them—they were, um, NCOs [non-commissioned officers], which is, uh, the equivalents of sergeants, okay? They were not officers, although the heads—some different, um, sections were—were officers—captains and—and, uh, lieutenants and that. But, um, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I realized after a while, that they were doing their job, and that if they were soft on us, and if we became—a situation, which we got involved in, we couldn’t be soft either. So the, um—they did their job, and I think they did it—looking back on it, I think they did a good job on ‘em.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, let’s back up a minute.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You said you didn’t think you’d have to shoot a gun</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>But you did.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And I think I noticed on your paper that you were, uh, a sharpshooter.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. I surprised myself, to be honest with you.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Had you ever shot a gun before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You adapted to that well.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I adapted to it. Yeah. Well…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Which again, kind of concerned me. In effect, if I’m a sharpshooter, they might do something with me, other than what I wanted to do [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you receive, uh, any advanced, specialized training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not at that time. No. When we, uh—Just To—to go back a little bit, uh, historically, what led up to this: when I enlisted in the—in the Air Force—and I— don’t mean to take away what you’re—you—the questions you are asking—uh, I had to take a battery of tests…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>To determine where I was best fit for the Air Force. Uh, and, at that time, I was—I—I actually scored highest in the administrative area. It was like electronics, administrative, mechanical, uh—those I think—and—and just basic—basic air. So I scored highest in administrative, which I assumed that I would, because that was pretty much my background and what I wanted to do.</p>
<p>However, at the time that I went in, and—there were no openings in the administrative field. So I said, “Well, if you don’t have anything in the administrative area, send me home. I don’t—I don’t need to come then.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They said, “No. that doesn’t work that way, okay? Now, you’re going to be in the electronics field.” I said, “Okay. Electronics.” “Yeah. You know, putting wires together and all this kind of stuff. Wherever you’re needed in electronics.” You know, that’s a wide area, obviously. I said, “Okay.” and they gave me another battery of tests, and one of the tests was called the Ishihara [Color] Test—and I’m not sure if you’re fa—familiar with that? That’s the one where they have the numbers that are embedded in the different colors, so that if you’re looking at it, it is to determine if you are colorblind or not.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I really botched that up big time. I think I only got two numbers out of all of them that they showed me. I just couldn’t pick out the different numbers in the blocks of different colors. So they sat back and they said “Well, hm. If you can’t pick out the numbers, how are you going to put a red wire together with a green wire or with a blue wire, and make sure it’s running properly? So you can’t go into electronics.” So I said, “Good. Send me home.” They said, “No. it doesn’t work that way.”</p>
<p>I said, “Well, how about administrative again?” “No. we still don’t have any openings.” “Okay. So now what?” “Well, we’re going to give you your choice of what you want to do, Okay? This is the career that you’re going to have in the Air Force.” One: You can become a cook, okay? Number two: you can become a parachute rigger, okay? Putting together the parachutes for the pilots and [inaudible]. Three: you can be an air policeman, because you did qualify that [inaudible]. Or four: you can be an airframe repair specialist.</p>
<p>So I sat back and I thought, <em>Well, I could kill everybody with my cooking</em>, because I couldn’t cook very well, okay? <em>If I became a parachute rigger, god forbid if a parachute didn’t open when the pilot jumped out of the plane or whatever[?], I’d probably kill somebody that way. </em>Air police? I says[sic], <em>Nah. I’m not big enough to be a good air </em>policeman, you know? I could direct traffic, but that would probably be all that I could do. So that left me with airframe repair, okay? So that’s where we’re back—that’s where—that’s a little bit about the background on my next point after basic training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So in basic training, you get your assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you were assigned to be an air…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Airframe Repair.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe Repair? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s exactly correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So that’s working on the outside of the airplane.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, It could be the inside too.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Anything to do with the frame of an airplane?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay, but, um—so where were you assigned after basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was assigned after basic training to advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base—Texas also. I really didn’t leave Texas for my basic training and my advance training. And this was strictly was airframe repair now.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay? This was how—to teach me how to be, uh, an airframe repairman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I have two left hands, so you can imagine</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>What it was like to be in Airframe Repair School [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And—so how long where you in</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Six months, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Six months? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Almost six months. It was—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And What was your impression of this a—assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I thought it would be just going to school, But unfortunately, it wasn’t. It was an extension of the basic training, only, to be honest with you, worse. First of all, the weather in Amarillo, Texas, was horrible. I was there during the wintertime, and it was cold and freezing, and we were doing calisthenics outside and we were running, and we were marching. And I said, <em>This isn’t supposed to be like this.</em> <em>This is like I’m supposed to learn how to work on airplanes, not</em> [<em>laughs</em>]—<em>not</em>—I said, “This was already done in basic training. Why do I—why do I gotta do that again?” “No, no, no.” And actually, they—they called them “TIs”—technical instructors—were worse in—in Airframe Repair School than they were in basic training. They were harder on us in—in, uh—in school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How many hours would you actually be in—in training for repairs?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>For repairs? It was about six to eight hours a day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So a long day?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was just on the repair. Just on airframe repairs. That wasn’t—again, the calisthenics or the marching and everything else. So it was a full day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did it start early…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Like in basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not as early, but pretty close.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Pretty close? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did your duties entail as an airframe worker?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, there’s another story that goes along with that, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Tell it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh,Well, in—in basic airframe repair, you do anything from sheet metal work to fiber glassing to, umm anything that has to do, again, with—with the frame. Ma—uh, making sure that the—that the actual plane itself is in good shape to fly, okay? From a sheet metal standpoint, and not the electronics standpoint. Obviously, that’s in another area.</p>
<p>But, uh—this—this, again, is a—is another story. I had two left hands, as—as I had mentioned. Uh, I couldn’t hit a hammer—nail with a hammer great, and they’re putting me on working on airplanes. Well, each part of the course was a different thing you did with an—with the airframe. Riveting was one area, sheet met—cutting out certain, uh, pieces on the plane was another area.</p>
<p>Uh, one of the areas that they had, they called them “blocks.” each one was a separate block, and what you did was you learned as part—as in the individual blocks was, uh, fiber glassing, okay? And how to fiberglass, how to use fiberglass, and how to be able to mold it on a plane were necessary things like that. I wish you could’ve seen me doing the fiberglass work. You’d—it’d—it’s a real comedy. It was a real comedy, a real joke.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was the, uh, difficulty in—in doing that? I don’t—I haven’t worked with fiberglass.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it’s just mixing—mixing the ras—the resin together…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So it’s the right consistency. Being able to lay out the sheets of fiberglass on there, and smooth it over, sand it down. All of these different areas are part of the—are part of the fiberglass work, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So that—that—that’s—that was part of it. That was one of the blocks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Alright. And there were other things, like riveting classes?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong> How to use a rivet gun properly. Um, All different types—all different of things on—on, Again, using sheet metal, and using—and repairing aircraft.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did you like best about that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Nothing [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Nothing? Okay. So you kind of felt like you were a...</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Round peg…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>In a square hole?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly. I was not in the proper location.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And unfortunately, the Air Force didn’t realize at the time, okay? They put me through it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Were your instructors, um, understanding? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Patient? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They pretty—they were pretty understanding, with the exception of the one from the fiberglass area, because, uh, I ultimately did not pass the test to move on to the next phase of the Airframe Repair School. So I actually had to take a complete week all over—or, em, two weeks, I believe, or three weeks. I had to take that all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>All the fiberglass work?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The fiberglass portion. And the other ones I had passed…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But the fiberglass portion, I had a very difficult time with, and, uh, I had to take that part of the program all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And then you passed it?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So now are you ready for the next, uh—for your next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, the reason—now, I was part of a group of students. My class, I think, was like 12 or 14 students in my class. Because I had failed the test, they moved on to the next phase, I had to wait until the next class came along to pick up with them, and to begin the fiberglass portion all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Which I did. Uh, I think I had to wait a week before the next class came to the point that they were going to do the fiberglass…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. I see.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Block. So I waved goodbye to all of my fellow students. They had gone—they had gone on to the next phase, and started it, and started the next group. Which a second time I did pass, okay? So I finished and graduated tech school, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So you only had to wait behind two weeks, and then do you catch up with your class again?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Then I’m involved with this next…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Your [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>New class. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Did you go through all the training you did before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. No. I just picked it up from the fiberglass portion. I’m not sure if it was the third block or the second block. I really don’t remember.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But then I just proceeded on with that class. Now, as they had finished block one and block two…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And they went into fiber glassing. I had finished one and two, and started in with them as part of my new class, and we continued on together.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I had to meet all new students, and—and get involved with the new class.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Can you describe an event that wasn’t typical in this particular time of your training? You’re in the six months training now. Is there anything that happened that wasn’t typical of an everyday experience or—that you can think of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Not really. No. It was just pretty much—cou—can’t wait to get out and get an assignment type of situation. And, um, I—Like I said, I did the very best I can. I knew I had no choice, and, uh, I was able to pass and continue on. But it was pretty much the same routine. The only difference that we had was that we had, uh, leave on the weekends, and we were able to go into Amarillo, which There’s not much there. So we did have leave—we did have leave time then. It wasn’t like a seven days a week type of training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.So not really anything memoral—memorable during this time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So at six—when you finished that six-month training…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What happened then?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>‘Nother interesting point. I guess—I guess I had more interesting points than I thought I did. When I, um, came out of my next—with my new class, my previous class had gone on. And of course. they graduated from the technical school before I did. They all got their orders, and the entire class got orders for Vietnam, okay? So if I was in that class, I would have ended up going to Vietnam, at the time. My situation was, when I graduated and I saw my orders posted, I got sent to Europe [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s interesting</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It is. It was lu—very lucky. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>At that point, you weren’t too [inaudible] —too very sorry that you weren’t very adept to…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Not really. But of course, you know, that can change—that can change at any time also. But, uh, quite a relief on my family’s part, to say the least.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, It—it was—it was very, [<em>laughs</em>] very interesting time, believe me. So I was sent to Europe, uh, in what they called a “TDY outfit,” which was temporary duty assignments. Now, I was assigned to work on a [McDonnell Douglas] F-4 [Phantom II] aircraft. they called it the “phantom jet.” I worked on [McDonnell] F-101s [Voodoo], [Republic F-]105s [Thunderchief], uh, various different types of programs.</p>
<p>My basic job was to work on the outboard tanks and pylons. The pylons were, uh, the apparatus that held the bomb racks on. So we were working on putting on bomb racks on the different types of aircraft, and they would then go over to Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Now…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So you were specialized in your duties?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Yes. We were—we became specialized in our duties. Now, the government, at the time—again, we were set up as a temporary duty assignment. We had—had to go from base to base to work on these different aircraft. The government thought that it would be cheaper for us to travel in groups and work on these tanks and pylons, because the point of the—with these jets are: they had the jettison their outboard tanks and their pylon or bomb racks when they took off after their bombing runs. Because if they kept those on, it would add weight to the plane itself, in which case, they couldn’t get away—get away as quick, uh, without them. So they were continuously jettisoning these, and when they would come back to—to Europe, we’d have to refit them with new ones, and make—and—and get them all set up for them to go out again. Even though most of them were based right in Vietnam or Thailand and that[?], um, they still came for—for, uh, overall maintenance back to the, uh—back to Europe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where in Europe were you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. I was in, uh, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Libya, England, Spain, and my home base was in Germany, okay? That’s where we worked out of. We worked out of Rhein-Main [Air Base], Germany, in, uh, Frankfurt [am Main, Hesse, Germany], okay? So that’s where my main outfit was. It was Detachment 51.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And that’s[sic] the ones you graduated with?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, some—Most of them—most of them did go on to that, but I think there were about six or seven that went to different, uh— areas, okay?</p>
<p>Uh, that’s another [<em>laughs</em>]—again, that’s another interesting point. Uh, When I flew over from, uh, New Jersey—McGuire Air Force Base. I left out of McGuire Air Force Base. It’s—it’s a funny story. There were like three planes lined up taking all of us over to Europe. There were two commercial airliners, and then there was what they called a “C-141 Galaxy.” And I said, “Oh, I’m going to go over to Europe in a nice, uh, airliner,” and I ended up going over on a military aircraft, sitting in the seats on the sides [<em>laughs</em>]. So it was kind of a bumpy ride over there.</p>
<p>But when I landed, my orders were to catch up with my unit in what they called—in a place called Chaumont[, Haute-Marne], France, okay? So I landed at Rhein-Main Air Force Base, Germany, caught a shuttle, uh—a military shuttle. Uh, it wasn’t a plane. It was a bus, alright? Down to Chaumont, France. Caught up with my, eh—with my group down there, okay? With my detachment down there. And I noticed as I went into—to the offices to report in, that they’re packing up everything. And I went and signed in, and I said to the desk sergeant or whatever his name was, “What—what’s going on,” okay? “I was told to report here.” They said, “Well, we’re leaving.” I said, “Why are you leaving?” Well, at that time, France was not in the best, you know, of friends with the—with the United States. And, uh, this is part of the NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] Pact, and we were—we were leaving out of France. And I said, “Oh,” I said, “So we’re not going to stay in France?” “No.” “Well, where are we going?” He said, “Rhein-Main Air Force Base in Germany.” I said, “Wait a minute. I just came from there.” [<em>laughs</em>] I said, “I just took a bus and came from Rhein-Main.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Going to your official[?] [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>“Why didn’t anybody tell—why didn’t anybody tell me that I was going to go back to—I would never have left I would have waited for ya there.” Well, as it turned out, we went—we went back to Rhein-Main, and, um, set up shop there, and, uh, proceeded to travel all over Europe, and—and working on these tanks and pylons and—and getting them set, so that they—we can put ‘em on the planes, and they can take off.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you have a schedule for where you would be and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. We had orders every—every time. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how did that work? Or—or did you not know ahead of time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, when we finished one assignment, we’d come back for a while, and, uh, work around…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Always back to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Back to Germany. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And then get our—get our next assignment when we were told to go out…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was your relationship with the oth—other service personnel that you worked directly with on the pylons?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, we, uh—we had a good relationship. I mean, we were a unit. We pretty much hung around together. Uh, when we had time, we played softball, uh, on—in a league on base. And again, I was a lot, a lot thinner [<em>laughs</em>] back then. And, uh, we had—we had a good time. I mean, it was pretty much a regular eight-hour day, okay? Uh, if—whether or not it was at the—at the base that we were at, or at our home base in Germany.</p>
<p>There was—every once in a while, we had assignments. Outside of our unit, was the, uh, uh Boeing 707—I think it was, um, at the time. It was the General of the Air Force’s plane, uh, of Europe</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, [inaudible]. It was the General’s plane—his personal plane—was out there. Actually, come to think of it now, it was the [Boeing] KC-135 [Stratotanker] —was—which was an inflight re-fueler, where those, you know—the planes come up to it, and they drop the boom in that. Well, this was a converted KC-135 for the General. Really nice, nice plane. And we had work on that every once in a while, changing some things, and, you know, making sure that everything was okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were, uh, at base, or on these assignments, were you always busy? Or were there times that you didn’t—were waiting for the next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, No. We were busy most of the time. We were busy most of the time. I mean, once again, it was pretty much and eight-hour day, and when we were done, we had—we were free to do whatever we wanted. It was just, uh, like a normal job, except we worked [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. But there wasn’t a lot of just sit around and wait?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No, no, no, no.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. How did you stay in touch with your family and friends back home?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, at that time, I was—there—there was no such thing as Skype, or, uh, e-mail, and things like that. So it was pretty much by letter. Just by regular letter. Sna—snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, do you believe you were well-trained for your assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>As best as they could, considering what they had to deal with [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did you always have the equipment and the supplies that you needed…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>To do your job?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That—that we had no trouble—we had no trouble with.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you mentioned you played softball.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How else did you entertain yourself when you weren’t on duty?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Well, I’d say drink [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, Just going to different, uh—go to the USO [United Service Organization] over there, and saw stag shows, and had one—one or two beers—four or five.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was there a USO show that was particularly memorable?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The Platters. The original Platters were there. And, um, I—I liked them from the beginning, and I was very fortunate to meet ‘em, and, uh, listen—they put on a great show.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.Was that in Germany? Or in one of your other assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. That was in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It was in Germany [<em>sniffs</em>]. But When I—I was in Spain, uh, over one of the New Year’s [Eve]. I was in, uh, Madrid, Spain, and got and to see a flamenco show there. A real, real flamenco show, which was pretty good.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you take advantage of any, uh, sightseeing, or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Or tours…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. That would be entertaining [inaudible]</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, um, I got married while—while I was overseas.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And my wife was in the States. She was a—she was an American. She was German—born German, but, um, I married—I got married. And she was able to come over to Europe and get a job in Germany, while I was gone. Fortunately enough, she, um, uh spoke German. So she was able to get around the economy very nicely while I was gone, because I was gone most of the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it was nice to have her over there. And when—when I was back there, we were able to travel around.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, nice.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>We were able to go to Holland,<a title="">[1]</a> and, uh, visit a lot of Germany. Go around—go around Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s a—that’s very, uh—very nice thing to have happened…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>While you’re</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Young, and, uh—and not a lot of money…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You cantravel around on…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Uncle Sam’s dime.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, when were you—tell me about your ranking and how that—and how you…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, actually, I became a sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up a staff sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, pardon me?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up as a staff sergeant. I saw on your…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. You start off as a—tell me how that works.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, you just go in as an airman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And then, at that time, it was, um, second class, first class, and sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, I think I mis—misstated. Um, I was three stripes, which was considered a sergeant at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Four stripes is a staff sergeant, so…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I made three. If I had reenlisted, I probably would have gotten a fourth stripe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Alright. So you ended up as a sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, um, when were you discharged from the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>August of 1970. When I rotated back from the States, I, uh, was stationed in, uh, Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter, South Carolina, which was about 7-8 months. So I lived in South Carolina, outside of Columbia.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I think it was 7-8 months. Something like that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Seven—okay. Um, how did you feel once you were out of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Relieved. Um, Glad I did what I did. Uh, kind of—Kind of upset as to what was going on, while I was in the military, back home with the individual tour—“pacifists,” I guess you call them—or against the war in Vietnam. I mean, I was not all in favor of what was going on, but, uh, when I did come home on leave at one time, uh, it was not ver— it was not a very good situation. I mean, we were—for all intents and purposes, we were spat at, at the airports, when we walked through. Nobody said, “Thank you for your service.” And, uh, they just didn’t like it. They didn’t like anybody in the military, or anybody in uniform. So that—that kind of part was tough.</p>
<p>Um, Again, I was relieved. But on the other hand, I felt that all of my friends—I was the only one of all my friends back in Rochester. I was the only one to go into the military, and felt that I was four years behind them in education and—and, um—and just getting on with my life. So, you know, it—both sides. I felt good with serving, but on the other hand, I felt that I lost some time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, once you were out, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] Another good, interesting situation. Uh, when I got out of the service, my wife became pregnant [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, it was probably from the week I got discharged [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>She—she got pregnant. In which case, if she got pregnant while we were in the military, the government would have paid for it. If she had given birth while I was in, the military would have paid for it.</p>
<p>But I, uh—when I got out of the service, my main goal was to get back to school. I wanted to get my degree in accounting and—and go on from there. But a little s—s—little turn of events when your wife becomes pregnant. Going to day school is pretty difficult. So I took a job. um, and again, I got out in August, and, uh, school was going to start in September, but I was gonna take—go to night school, okay? And—and get a job during the day. But until that time started, I went to work at McDonald’s, uh, slinging hamburgers. See, eh, eh, my memory’s coming back. I was going to go to day school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I wasn’t going to enroll until September, but I needed some—to get some income coming in, uh, for my wife and that. So I went to work at McDonald’s slinging hamburgers, which was not a great experience. Because here’s an older gentleman, who’s, uh, slinging hamburgers with a bunch of teenagers, and looking at me, thinking, <em>Boy, he must be a real loser if he’s doing this</em>, not knowing the situation. But I got the job in telling ‘em that I was going to—I wanted to go to school training to become a manager at McDonald’s. This is how I got the job. And, uh, the owner of the place said, “Okay.” He said, “But you—but in order to do that, you have to learn all the different areas of—of McDonald’s.” French fries, working on the grill, the clean-up, the whole bit. . I said, “Okay.” Well, that lasted about a week—week and a half—and I just couldn’t handle it anymore. I would come home smelling terrible from all the fat that was in the French fries. So that lasted maybe a week—week and a half.</p>
<p>But we managed. Um, and I did start going to school, but things got to a point where I just needed to get money. So I went—I was going back to night school. I went to night school, and got a job. Uh, at that time, [<em>sniffs</em>] I was working, I believe, at one of the local manufacturing companies in their finance department. I was working in their cost accounting department. Even though I didn’t have a degree, they—they put me on as—in a lower level type of position. But it was bringing in income, and I—I was able to go to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where was this, Larry?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Rochester Institute of Technology.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, you were back in…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Back in New York<strong>.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was back in Rochester. I went back to New York.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Were you—were there any G.I.<a title="">[2]</a> benefits</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That you were able to take advantage of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Absolutely. I was on the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[3]</a> Helped me pay for my schooling. Yes. Definitely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And so you’re working in the daytime and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And going to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, we talked about how you were treated…</p>
<p>[<em>background noise</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you came home, and that, um, there was, um, uh, disrespect…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Dor you as a soldier. Now…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was that set across the board every time you came home on leave? Or, uh, did you notice that when you would go to New York? Or when you would go—when you came back to South Carolina? Was there a difference in the way the local people treated you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No. Not that I can remember. It was just an area that they didn’t go out of their way to—to do anything. More like they were trying to ignore us, then, um—like we were the—the plague.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And just no—no respect. No respect for anyone. And that’s what makes me feel so good now is that you’re seeing these, uh, individuals in the military, and people are giving them respect and thanking them for their service. So that’s one of the areas where I—I felt cheated out of also—is not getting the respect and that, because it was four years of my life, and that’s a long time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It is a long time, especially at that age.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did your military experience affect your civilian life in any way?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I became more appreciative of life. Um, More appreciative of the things that I—that I was able to get, uh, of—of my family at the time. Because being away from them most of the—now fortunately, like I said, my wife was able to come with—to come with me over to Europe, but, uh, I missed my brothers and my—and my father. My mother had passed away prior to that, so, uh—but, yeah. Uh, a lot of things, uh—a lot of things that I was more appreciative of, at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Do you think that you were more serious in your education than you would have been as a 20…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Most definitely. Most definitely. That’s a very good point. I looked at my education totally different. Uh, more—I—I was more involved with history. Um, I—I didn’t feel at the time—you see, there was a lot—a lot difference in going to school and being, pretty much, made to go to school, or that—that was the norm. You—you went to high school. You finished high school. You went to college and then you went on from there.</p>
<p>And because of the interruption, I looked at it from a different stand point that, you know, this is an opportunity. This is a great opportunity, and, uh, the government is helping me with this opportunity, through the G.I. Bill. I’m going to take full advantage of it. So I took full courses. And if anybody knows about Rochester, New York, and going to school at night in Rochester, New York, in the middle of winter is not easy. Okay. It was cold. It was freezing. It was snowing. But, uh, I had a family to support, and I wanted to be able to get my education, so Luckily, I was able to complete it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Looking back on it all, can you describe about how you feel about your service? You said that you were glad you did it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And anything else you want to add to that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Other—other than the fact that, um, I personally think that it makes a—a person better going into the military. And I for one, feel that it should be mandatory, because there’s a lot of kids that are going to—to education and that, because they don’t know what else to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so you feel it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And I think when they say it—when they say…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Gives them time to mature and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I’m sorry. What’s that?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It gives them time to mature…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A little about the world and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to grow up.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn some discipline [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s the other area. That’s the other area. Like I said, so many don’t know what they want to do with themselves, and they end up in the military. Although they didn’t give me the opportunity to go in the direction that I wanted to. It certainly opened up my eyes to a lot of things. And one is independence. You know, being independent, being able to do things on your own, uh, washing your own clothes, making your own bed, uh, choosing the right things to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you become more adept to working with your hands?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I wish I could say yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Some things you just can’t learn.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Some things that you—you have a difficult time doing. That’s correct. Um, I think I’m a little better with a hammer and nails now than I was. I wouldn’t go as far as work with any kind of sheet metal or anything, because I’m sure I would cut my fingers up in shreds, but Yeah. I think I’m a little bit better. I can—I can…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Well, Larry, I thank you for your service. And I thank you for this—for you doing this…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it was a pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>With us.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Very enjoyable. Very enjoyable.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, I enjoyed talking with you about it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Thank you. Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Formally called The Netherlands.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Government Issue or General Issue.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>
accounting
advanced training
Airframe Repair School
airframe repair specialists
airframe repairman
airframe repairmen
airplanes
Amarill, Texas
Amarillo AFB
Amarillo Air Force Base
anti-war movement
basic training
Boeing 707
Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker
Brown University
BU
Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
Burlington County, New Jersey
C-141 Galaxy
colorblindness
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
Custom Service
CVHP
Detachment 51
draft board
draft lottery
drafts
education
enlistment
Europe
F-101
F-105
F-4
fast food restaurants
fiber glassing
fiberglass
firearms
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
G.I. Bill
Germany
Good Conduct Medal
gun ranges
guns
instructors
Ishihara Color Test
jet
jet fighter
jets
KC-135
Lackland AFB
Lackland Air Force Base
Larry Levine
Lawrence Paul Levin
marching
marriages
Mary Hughes Young
McDonald's
McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II
McDonnell F-101 Voodoo
Mcguire AFB
Mcguire Air Force Base
metal
military draft
military education
military training
pacifism
pacifists
peace movement
phantom jets
planes
protests
Providence, Rhode Island
pylon
Republic F-105 Thunderchief
Rhein-Main AB
Rhein-Main Air Base
RIT
riveting
Rochester Institute of Technology
Rochester, New York
San Antonio, Texas
Selective Service System
Sergeant
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
sharpshooters
sharpshooting
Shaw AFB
Shaw Air Force Base
sheet metal
Staff Sergeant
Sumter, South Carolina
TDY
temporary duty
The Platters
TI
training
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Air Force in Europe
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Air Corps
U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
U.S. Customs Service
United Service Organization
USAFE
USO
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/8484ca00e529b1952c08d4ac340f7380.pdf
890d365fab807170fe38306cbad1935f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Vietnam War Collection
Alternative Title
Vietnam Collection
Subject
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Veterans--Florida
Description
The Vietnam War was a Cold War Era "military conflict." The war was originally waged between Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos. The United States became involved as a preventive measure to combat communism. The date of the war has been disputed, but a study in 1998 by the Department of Defense definitively put the start of the Vietnam War as November 1, 1955.
The first combat military troops 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade didn't arrive until 1965. With the arrival of the combat troops came the first traditional battles of combat fighting in the war. During the Vietnam War, not only did American military go into battle with and for South Vietnam, the military also trained members of South Vietnam to fight alongside during the war. Peace talks were attempted, with France moderating, beginning on May 10, 1968. These talks were unsuccessful and lasted over three years.
The longest battle of the Vietnam War began on January 21, 1968 and didn't end until the U.S. reclaimed Route 9 on April 8, 1968, 77 days later. While the military conflict ended in April of 1975, it was a long process towards reunification and redevelopment as a country. The conflict left Vietnam in both political and economical ruins.
Contributor
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Vietnam
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
External Reference
<span>"</span><a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a><span>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.</span>
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
"<a title="American Experience" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html" target="_blank">American Experience</a>." Public Broadcasting Company. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Scherer, Rose Marie "Judy"
Interviewee
McGuire, George G.
Location
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video DVD/CD
Duration
43 minutes and 22 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
157kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of George G. McGuire
Alternative Title
Oral History, McGuire
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
Vietnam War, 1961-1985
Air Force
Army
Description
An oral history interview of George G. McGuire, who joined the U.S. Air Force in 1963 and served until 1983. He was born on Summit, New Jersey, on October 17, 1941. A veteran of the Vietnam War era, McGuire achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Judy Scherer on April 1, 2014. Interview topics include McGuire's background and family, his college education, join the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC), Whiteman Air Force Base, McCoy Air Force Base, duties as a procurement officer and a contract administrator, the Defense Contract Administration Services, serving in Bangkok during the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations (USAFOSI), the Rock Island Arsenal, military retirement, U.S.-Thailand relations, and his many travel experiences.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:02:33 College years<br />0:03:06 Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps and Whiteman Air Force Base <br />0:04:42 McCoy Air Force Base<br />0:05:42 George Washington University, Defense Contract Administration Services, and Bangkok, Thailand<br />0:07:05 U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations<br />0:14:55 Assignments in the United States<br />0:15:33 Bangkok and Mom Rajawongse Seni Promoj<br />0:21:45 Duties as a Contract Administrator<br />0:23:24 Interesting people and stories from Thailand<br />0:28:06 Communicating with family<br />0:30:23 Communicating with Thais<br />0:35:50 Visiting South Korea with his wife<br />0:39:42 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of George G. McGuire. Interview conducted by Judy Scherer at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/269/" target="_blank">McGuire, George G.</a> Interviewed by Judy Scherer, April 1, 2014. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">Vietnam War Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 43-minute and 22-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/269/" target="_blank">McGuire, George G.</a> Interviewed by Judy Scherer, April 1, 2014.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Summit, New Jersey
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Fawley, England
Durban, South Africa
Statue of Liberty, Liberty Island, New York City, New York
University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Indiana
Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri
McCoy Air Force Base, Orlando, Florida
George Washington University, Washington, D.C.
Defense Contract Administration Services Management Office, Naval Air Station Sand Point, Seattle, Washington
Chokchai Building, Bangkok, Thailand
Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, Virginia
Washington, D.C.
Yokota Air Base, Fussa, Japan
Rock Island Arsenal, Rock Island-Moline, Illinois
Warsaw, Missouri
Osan Air Base, Pyeongtaek-si, South Korea
Seoul, South Korea
Creator
McGuire, George G.
Scherer, Judy
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-02-22
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-02-22
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
358 MB
257 MB
Medium
43-minute and 22-second audio/video DVD/CD
27-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Judy Scherer and George G. McGuire and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/269/" target="_blank">McGuire, George G.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>We’re ready.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Are you saying go?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Today is April the 1<sup>st</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing, uh, Lieutenant Colonel George G. McGuire. My name is [Rose Marie] “Judy” Scherer. Uh, please call me Judy. Um, his interview is being conducted at UCF [University of Central Florida] in Orlando, Florida. It is part of the UCF, um—the whole title is—is Community History Project—[Community] Veterans History Project. Um, so we are going to start with, um, the early days. I would like to ask you where you were born and grew up.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Alright. Well, I was born in New Jersey—Summit, New Jersey. And When I was, uh, a few weeks old, my family moved on to Baton Rouge[, Louisiana].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Wow [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Where my father worked in the oil refinery at Baton Rouge during World War II, and where I managed to acquire twin brothers and a sister.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Um, Shortly—well, not shortly. When I was about eight years old—eight or nine years old—we moved to England.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Where my father was building an oil refinery at Fawley, near South Hampton, for Esso in England. After we had been there about three years, we moved to Durban, South Africa.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Wow.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Where he was again a resident engineer for construction of an oil refinery—first one on the continent of Africa—and where I acquired a brother. I had acquired another sister in England, and now I had a brother in South Africa, so there are six children.</p>
<p>We sailed back to the United States. This is now approximately 1954 on a ship called the <em>African Enterprise</em>, which was a, um, freighter—combination freighter and passenger ship that carried a few passengers. And we were the only children, so we had the run of the ship.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And that was great fun. We got back to, uh, New York in the middle of the wintertime. And my memory says it was in February, but that may not be right. And of course, being good loyal little Americans who had been out of the country for so many years, we had to stand up on the ship and watch Miss [the Statue of] Liberty as we came into New York Harbor.</p>
<p>Uh, following that, we lived in New Jersey for a number of years. And then I went off to college at the University of Notre Dame. And shortly afterwards, my father quit his job and moved to Massachusetts.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And, uh, the bane of my life was that when I would go home for vacation to a place in Massachusetts surrounded by girls’ colleges, they all had vacation break at the same time as we did.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So there was nobody there.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And of course, Notre Dame at that time was all men, and there were no women there, unless we found some in the local community, which was a very difficult thing to do.</p>
<p>Uh, At Notre Dame, they had three R—all three ROTC [Reserve Officers' Training Corps] programs. This is 1959 when I started there. There’s a shooting [Vietnam] War going on in Asia. People are being drafted. I had no interest in being drafted and being given a rifle and go shoot people, so I said <em>Okay. I’d rather be an officer. And no, I don’t want to walk around in the mud, and I don’t want to sit on a boat bobbing up and down in the ocean. And since you have Air Force, I will go Air Force.</em></p>
<p>Um, so I did. And when I was graduating Notre Dame, I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the United States Air Force and promptly sent to Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri.</p>
<p>So one of the first things I did was I bought myself a car. I didn’t have a car at that point, so I brought a brand new, shiny red Valiant convertible. And that was a neat looking car. I shaw—showed up on base, and went into my first assignment, and the people I’m working with—one of them takes one look at that car and says, “I give you one year.”</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh huh. And, uh, he turned out to be right. Because a few months later, I met a young lady, and less than a year later, we were married. All fault is directed at that shiny red convertible, I suppose.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>About a year or so after we were married, I got orders to transfer to McCoy Air Force Base, which, of course that’s a hardship tour to come to McCoy Air Force Base, which is now Orlando International Airport, where I was the base procurement officer here.</p>
<p>Now, they had assigned me to procurement when I went to Whiteman, and I didn’t know what “procurement” was. I only knew one meaning for the term, and it had more to do with what you did after hours than it did with buying anything the Air Force wanted. Anyway, I became procurement officer. “Procurement” just simply means that you’re the guy in charge of going out and buying stuff.</p>
<p>So I was stationed here in McCoy, and, um, about that time, is when what was then called “Orlando Air Force Base” is transitioning to the Navy. And the last Air Force unit to transition out from Orlando Air Force Base was the hospital. So my two sons have the distinction of having been born in an Air Force hospital on a Navy base.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>From here, the, uh, Air Force sent me up to Washington, D.C., to go to George Washington University for a Master’s Degree in Business Administration, as my assignment for a year and a half. And then from there, to go to Seattle, Washington, to the, uh, Defense Contract Administration Services management area Office, otherwise known as DCAS.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Excuse me. What was it known as?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>DCAS. D-C-A-S.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>S.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Judy had a problem with this one earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Which was at, um, Sand Point Naval Air Station, which was a little pimple on the side of the wealthiest area of ci—city of Seattle, a few blocks away from the University of Washington. Not very far from it. It no longer is a military installation. It’s now high-cost residential.</p>
<p>Um, let’s see. from there, the next assignment was to Bangkok, Thailand, to be the, uh—one of the officers assigned to the Air Force’s Procurement Center in Downtown Bangkok, which was supporting all of the Air Force and some of the Army units, uh, throughout Thailand and, uh, Vietnam. And this is at the tail end of the Vietnam War.</p>
<p>From there, I went back to the United St—came back to the United States to go to uh, Norfolk, Virginia, to the Armed Forces Staff College.</p>
<p>And then from there, to the, uh, Air Force OSI—Air Force Office of Special Investigations—in Washington, D.C., to act as an in-house consultant on procurement matters. Air Force OSI had been founded la—years before, in the very early days of the Air Force, because of scandal having to do with contracting. And then they had gotten away from that and they had forgotten had to spell “contracting.”</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>As they got mostly inter—interested in chasing drugs. But in, um—somewhere around 1970, there was another big scandal that came up that didn’t have anything to do with the Air Force, but it did with the Navy. And the Air Force decided that it would be smart to get back into that business and pay attention, because we are spending just huge sums of money. We ought to be paying attention to it. And the first thing they needed to do was to find somebody who knew something about the procurement system and could come in and act as an in-house consultant to them, and so they chose me.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Really?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So for two years, I taught OSI agents how to spell “procurement” and the kinds of things to look for. The big thing coming out of it was to find out just how honest the system really is at that level. There may be corruption at other levels, but at the level of the working people doing the job, it is a very, very honest system.</p>
<p>Um, now what did I skip? Somewhere in here, I skipped something. No. I guess not. When that was finished, they sent me to Japan to be the Deputy Director of the Air Force’s Procurement Center in Tokyo—actually, at Yokota Air Force Base,<a title="">[1]</a> which is just in the western suburbs of Tokyo—in which I had the responsibility for all of the, um, in-country support for Air Force and Army, and staff responsibilities towards the, uh, Army Center—similar to it in Korea, that took care of Air Force and Army in Korea.</p>
<p>And, uh, let me think for a moment. Oh, yes. One of the, um, cases that I had run in the OSI had been an accusation made against the Lieutenant Colonel who commanded the Air Force Procurement Center at Yokota Air Base—that he was corrupt, and that he was accepting bribes from, uh, one of the car companies , which the, uh, U.S had a contract with for small engines.</p>
<p>Well, the truth of the story—it turned out, that the man was an elder of the Mormon Church,<a title="">[2]</a> as well, as being a[sic] Air Force officer. And he had led a church group on a visit to the plant. Just a visit to go see what the plant looks like. And his big mistake: when he got back to his office was he had written the thank you note on Air Force letterhead, rather than on Mormon Church letterhead. And that had kicked off all of these accusations that he was, uh, a corrupt and on the take from this car company, which of course, he was not. But we had spent a bunch of time going and checking it out, so I knew all about it [<em>laughs</em>] before I got there.</p>
<p>Um, then that was followed by an assignment back in the United States to go to Rock Island Arsenal [in Rock Island-Moline, Illinois] to be the Deputy Director of the ammunition procurement division for U.S. Army Armament Material and [the U.S. Army Military Intelligence] Readiness Command, functioning as something called “Single Manager for Conventional Ammunition.”</p>
<p>Army buys all the ammunition used by the military—all production ammunition, not development, but production—ammunition used by the military, of whom the Air Force was the second largest consumer. And therefore, the Air Force, to help with that mission, sent six officers to Rock Island to participate. And at th—this point, I am a Lieutenant Colonel. And so I became the Deputy Director of that division. We spent in that one division—and this is 1980—one and a half billion…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>gasps</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Dollars a year. This is peacetime. One and a half billion. Buying bits and pieces of little things, most of which costs less than one dollar a unit, and the most expensive one was ten dollars a unit. All over the country. And then, the things we bought would flow to the Army load plants to be made up into rounds of ammunition—most of them. And they spent another billion and a half or so putting the stuff together as ammunition.</p>
<p>Okay. So I’m making decisions every day about how am I spending one and a half billion dollar budget. I’ve got a hundred people literally working for me. Uh, we are loading plants all over the country. We are making decisions about which factories we keep in business and which ones we don’t, and which communities stay in business because the factory’s there, and which ones don’t. And then I go home, and I have to be concerned if there was enough money in the checking account for my wife to go grocery shopping.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Whoa. A great[?] contrast.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>This got a little bit mind-bending at times.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Quite a contrast.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Hm?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Quite a contrast.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Quite a contrast. Yeah. And then, uh, I retired.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>At this point. I had been in the Air Force for 20 years and three weeks</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And I decided it was time to go. I had three kids that needed to go to college, and they weren’t going to do it on Lieutenant Colonel’s pay, so I had to go do something else.</p>
<p>And another interesting thing, to me at least, was that I had joined Air Force ROTC back there in college, because I had no desire to be anywhere near the Army or the Navy, but especially the Army. And so for my final tour of duty, I am winding up serving with the Army</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>As one of their officers [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /> </strong>Anyway, so that’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>What—when were you serving for the Army? Was that duty procur—procure—procurement, or was that when you [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No. That was with the Army. I was Deputy Director…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>For Ammunition Procurement.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Deputy Directory of Ammunition Procurement Division of that Army command.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, it all is very impressive, and I’m sure it was most important, but it sounds to me like your career was drug[?] running and buying guns [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh, no. actually…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Just joking.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>I might have bought some drugs along the way.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>To find out where [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But they would have been legal ones.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Um, Never bought any guns. Never bought an airplane, but I bought just about everything else.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, when you were doing procurement, the rifles—what were you actually…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, I didn’t buy the rifles. I bought the ammunition that went in the rifles.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, you bought the ammunition. Sorry. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Somebody else bought the rifles.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, you [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>There was another group doing that.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And there was another officer.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Other officers assigned to that.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer</strong>So you said you were in Bang—so—so you said you were in Bangkok</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And then you were in Thailand—I mean, Thailand is Bangkok.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And other places, but um, did you—did you do anything in the states? How long were you in the states at the end of the career?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Well, it was three years in, uh, Rock Island.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>It was three years at McCoy Air Force Base.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So two years in Whiteman’s. So that’s at least eight years of doing procurement there. And it was two years in the OSI, advising the OSI people about procurement—participating in, uh—in their actions.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Could you enlarge a little about your stay in Bangkok, and tell us more about what you did, and how difficult or easy it was? Because of the place, of course, it is always very hot there. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yes. As we were talking earlier, if you got a, um, weather report for Orlando and a weather report for Bangkok, for the months of July, August, and September, you could not tell the difference as to which city you’re reading the report on. It’s the same.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Interesting.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>The difference is, of course, that Orlando does cool down—some. Bangkok doesn’t. The, uh—Bangkok only has, um, three temperatures—hot, hotter, and hellatious.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh, Bangkok was a very interesting and very, very different, uh, type of assignment. At that time, the Air Force’s procurement office was in a building in the center of Bangkok. It was called the “Chokchai Building,” and it, uh—it wasn’t terribly tall. My memory says seven floors, but it might’ve been more. Uh, the city was built on swamp, so the building was constructed such that it floated. And its basement was a big concrete barge, and it was floating. Now, the technology has progressed, and you go to Bangkok, and there are skyscrapers all over the place. It’s a fairly modern city, but at that time it was not.</p>
<p>And, uh, so I was there as one of the officers assigned to that position. My memory says there were four of us, at that point, and I was the fifth one kind of detached. And, um, we just bought all the goods and services that the U.S. Air Force required in Thailand. And at that time, we had several bases scattered all over Thailand. And we had, um, people working for us—enlisted, uh, men—working for us at each base, also during procurement, but they were doing it as our subordinates for the stuff that had to come really from the local community. But otherwise, uh, we would buy the stuff in Bangkok—things in Bangkok. And this would be stuff—oh, it would be food, it would be entertainment, it would be the gas for the propane heaters, uh.—you name it. We would be buying it in Bangkok.</p>
<p>Um, We lived in a, uh compound, which was very much like a park, that was a little ways away from the, uh—from the office. And, uh, you walked in there and it was a beautiful little park-like area. It was lined with houses, all of which are rented to, uh, foreigners, like ourselves. Either American or Australian or somebody else, or the, uh, members of the diplomatic corps. And at the front of the—of the property, there was a very old, interesting Thai gentleman, and at the back of the property was his son and his family. And the fellow at the front—named [Mom Rajawongse] Seni Pramoj.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Seni Pramoj? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Seni Pramoj. Now Seni Pramoj is rather important in Thai-American relations. In World War II, the Japanese moved into Thailand, and Thailand declared war on the United States.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I never [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Seni Pramoj was the ambassador in Washington, D.C. He refused to deliver the declaration of war. United States chose to ignore it. When WWII ended, the United States chose—says, “Thailand was not an enemy combatant. They were an occupied country.” Other Allies had different opinions, and there’s[sic] arguments about it. And so the United States agreed, “Okay. We would take a little, tiny bit of reparations. We ‘ll take one house.” And it became the residence of the American Ambassador.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>That’s a fascinating story.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Seni Pramoj later was president of Thailand…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, really?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>At one time or another.<a title="">[3]</a></p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But at the time we met him, he is the landlord, sitting up at the front of the compound.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh[?].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And we didn’t see him very often, but we did—knew who he was. But, um…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I thought you were going to say he was the watchman. You know, because [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No. We figured that the—there was very little obvious security in that compound. There was no real guard at the gate or noth—but there were gardeners all over the place, and we figured they were all Thai CID [Criminal Investigator's Department].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]Well, one of them was very important.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And I—I think that’s a story that is well worth recording, because it shows how a war was, uh—was, um, avoided by simple, you know…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah, um…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Simple contacts.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So, America has been—had a treaty of friendship with Thailand since 1835, or something like that. It was the first one we signed with anybody in Asia.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, that’s interesting. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>‘Course, at that time, I think Thailand was probably about the only independent Asian country that we could get into. Japan was closed. China was, uh, occupied by several people. The—the British had Burma<a title="">[4]</a> and Malaya, And Dutch had Indonesia, and the French had Cambodia and Vietnam. And Thailand was in the middle. And we signed a treaty of friendship with those folks.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>which I think has paid off very handsomely for us.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Too bad it’s so unique.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And it’s very unique.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>During the, um, Vietnam War, Thailand actively participated in the war. And Thailand provided us with access to their facilities, and that’s the only time they have ever done that for anybody that’s not Thai.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes[?]. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So, um, [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I wish—wish they had done the same thing in Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Well…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>You know, after [Ngô Đình] Diệm [inaudible]. But I’m supposed to ask you questions, and you answer at length</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And I ask very short questions, but you’re asking at length very well [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>One of the…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>So I don’t have to ask you many questions.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>One of the jobs I had, while I was there in Thailand, was to be the Contract Administrator for the Thai security guard contract. We employed…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>That sounds like a Chinese title. It’s so long.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Almost.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Can you say it again?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Thai security guard contract. To be the contract administrator. We had a contract, and it was written as a regular Air Force Procurement contract, between ourselves and the [Thai] Ministry of Defense, whereby they provided, uh, Thai military reserves to act as the security guards for all of our forces—our locations, rather—all over the country of Thailand.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Interesting.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Every little—every U.S…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Space. Now, some of those were big. They’re big air bases. There’re lots of people. And some of them were little tiny listening posts…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Out in the jungle…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Wow.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>With maybe one or two Americans—well, usually more than that—maybe four Americans, and four or five Thai security guardsman to take care of them, to keep them safe, and literally keep the tigers from coming into the, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Into the post.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Mmhmm. That’s unusual.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah, and part of my duties were[sic] to go and inspect every one of those installations all over that country to make sure people are doing the job right.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Which I did.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes. I’m sure you…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Which was a very interesting [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I’m sure you did it very arduously, but it sounds very interesting.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>It was. It was very interesting.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh, so where do we go next?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I want to ask you if you, in all—in all these different places you’ve been, if you met any characters that stay—stayed in your mind as being particularly interesting, either, you know, um, good, bad, or eccentric, or whatever?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Hm. Strange…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Because your experiences are so different from other people’s in the military.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Usually[?], they’re in a unit, or they’re on some ship, and so on. But you were all over the place with all kinds of people, from the important ones to the not-so important ones.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah, but some of them were just ordinary folk. Uh, like[?] I was. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>But you had to find people who spoke English, I presume.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yes. And in most of the world, you can get by on English.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>That’s true.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Most educated Thais could speak some English.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>The, uh, officers on the Thai side, with whom I interfaced—one was an Admiral, the other was an Army Major, uh—spoke—spoke beautiful English.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes[?].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>That was—your stories are so interesting.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>That…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Can you tell another story that—of interest…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>From that…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Well, there is one other one of interest from that. I went to one of the bases, and the, uh—the guardsmen work on the base. They work for the American, uh, military police chief, whoever he is. And so, I was talking to him one day, and he was telling me about a young airman who wanted to get married. Now, before a serviceman can get married overseas, especially in a warzone, his, uh, bride has to be vetted through the American Embassy.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And most Americans, when they look at a Thai woman, cannot tell how old she is…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Until she is elderly, and then it’s obvious that she’s elderly. But as long as she is fairly young up through middle age, you’ve got no idea how old she is, when you look at her.</p>
<p>So there was this, uh, one young fellow, who wanted to get married and this—this is, um—now, this is 1974 time period—to, uh, his Thai honey. And when they started checking on her, they found out that she had been a prostitute for the Japanese forces, when the Japanese had occupied this particular base 30 years earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Very interesting turnaround[?].</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] So our 18 year old—18 year old…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>American G.I. couldn’t tell she was probably 45.</p>
<p><strong>All<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Interesting. That’s interesting story.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Do you have friends around the world that you made at that time?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>We did have for a long time, but then, um, over the years…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>They’re gone. The Admiral that[sic], uh, had been in charge from the Thai side—I kept in touch with for a long time, but then he died.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I’m not supposed to add anything to this, but I have to say that a prostitute who was a prostitute for the Japanese was[?]—was, uh—was quite often recruited and kept as a slave for soldiers.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, more than likely.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>What did they call them? There’s a name for them. But anyway…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh, comfort girls.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer <br /></strong>Comfort girls.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Or comfort women, rather.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>She—that could have happened to her. I mean, but still, she was old.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>It might have been.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But the point of the story wasn’t so much that she’d been a prostitute.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>That she was old.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>It was that she was at least 45 years old…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And our 18 year old airman couldn’t tell.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] That would’ve been an interesting—or a—have made a rather easy decision for the superior to make [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yes. I don’t think she got her clearance.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] So do you—yeah. Do you keep in touch with anyone that[sic] was posted in those places with you?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No. By now, I have lost—well, with all, except one. I still keep in touch with the man I worked for when I was in Japan.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>The rest of them, time has gone by.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Tell us about more colorful characters you’ve met.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>ike, I don’t, uh—Well, one of the most colorful characters was a fellow out there when I was a Thailand—American officer, who had lost the, um, first two joints of[?] one of his fingers, through some kind of accident. He cut it off with a saw or something. It wasn’t—it wasn’t particularly interesting. But the thing was he only had that much. Now in Thailand, you bargained at that time. You bargain for everything, and—but the currency is baht. So we would go and we would say, “Four baht,” and “Five baht,” “Ten baht.” whatever. Well, he could bargain in half baht.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] I see why you remember him.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>That’s my main memory of him, is he could bargain in half bahts.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I’m going to ask you a two-step question. Number one: did you ever keep a diary or make notes of what you were doing? Um…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, that’s [inaudible]—that’s more or less the answer then. Because, uh, it would be interesting, and you probably would have forgotten by now some of the things. Some of the [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, I’m sure I’ve forgotten probably most of it by now.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But no. I did—never kept any diary. I got movies and slides and stuff like that, but…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>So what about your family, that were in the states whilst you were doing all this? Did you keep in touch with them fairly well?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Well, my family was with me.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>No. Not your immediate family. I mean, your…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Parents and siblings[?].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>My parents, and my brothers and sisters and siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>I still do keep in touch with them.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Now, my parents are long gone, but yeah. My brothers and sisters and I still keep in touch.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, of course, we didn’t have email or anything, so what did you do? Write to them?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah. We write—wrote letters. And every time you circulated that through the country, you would, um, go and see people. Um, yeah. My wife’s, uh, parents lived in War—in Warsaw, Missouri, which, uh, is kind of south and west of Kansas City[, Missouri]—a couple hundred miles out in the country at the head waters of the Lake of the Ozarks in the Missouri countryside—hill towns. And it was amazing how Warsaw became on the way to everything.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh [<em>laughs</em>]. Via Warsaw [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah. It didn’t matter where we were going.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>It was always by way of Warsaw…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Missouri. It could have been—it was Washing—Florida to Washington, D.C., is by way of Warsaw, Missouri. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Oh, that’s good.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Seattle to Alabama for Squadron Officer School is by way of Warsaw, of course. That’s not too bad.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But, uh, everything was by way of Warsaw.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Wow[?]. That’s funny.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And then…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Does your wife like traveling?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Did she—yeah. She did.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, I [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>She’s now passed, but, uh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, I’m sorry.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>She did.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I didn’t know. Um…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, you’ve had a very interesting life.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah, ‘cause that particular—That first wife died about six years ago, but then she sent along a replacement, who ordered me up off of Match.com as her souvenir of her visit to America—the United States. And, uh, she’s Thai.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, really?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, how is your Thai? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>My Thai is good enough…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible] mai tai [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>My Thai—Yeah. I can order one of those. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Mai tai [inaudible] [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>My Thai is probably good enough to tell you “Hello” and “Goodbye.”</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>All of which is the same word: <em>sà-wàt-dee</em>. And to ask, “<em>Hông náam yòo têe năi?</em>” “Where’s the toilet?” in Thai.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Good one[?]. Good phrase [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And I could say thank you: <em>kòp kun mâak</em>. And that’s about it. Uh, fortunately…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible] If you were in procurement, people must have been saying, “Thank you” to you often.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, they were.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Okay[?]. Were you bribed at any time? Or tempted to be bribed?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No. No. Though, uh, some people had trouble with the U.S. standards on that. And in one particular instance in Thailand, uh, the contractors just could not understand when we said, “No. We cannot take anything.” So one Thanksgiving or Christmas or something, they showed up with a lot of turkeys and stuff. “No. we cannot take it.” “But I can’t take it.” “Well, okay.” we gave it to the orphanage.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, that was a good idea.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But no.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>You must have come across a lot of interesting situations like that. That’s a—that’s…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>We came across a lot of things that were cultural differences.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes, but I mean in the actual process of what you were doing. First of all, you had to find out who to start with to ask for what you needed. And then you had to choose between them.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>You had to choose between—yes. You have to define what you need. You have to find the people that can fill your need. And then you have to make a choice as to which one is going to fill it, and you have to pay attention to a whole long list of social things, as to which person can have this particular contract. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>So you had to do a lot of hard work?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is all goes with part of the job.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>The job. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Government procurement and commercial are not the same.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And the big difference is the rules that, uh, the government person has to follow. And people that[sic] I was—when I was teaching at OSI, one of their frequently raised complaints was: “Well, it would be so much cheaper if we did this, or if we did it that way.” And I would have to explain to them that the, um, military procurement regulations, which fill a space like this, were not designed for the efficient and economic acquisition of goods and services for the military. They were designed to fill the social aims of Congress first. And after you fill the social aims of Congress, then we do things to make sure we get stuff.</p>
<p>But we have things like—you have Buy American Act [of 1933]. You have a, um, law that governs the amount of money that must be paid to the contractors on the job, which often is very different than the local prevailing wages. You have to procure from minority-owned businesses. You want to procure from women- owned businesses.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>They did that then? Back that far?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. They’ve done this for a long time. And it goes on and on and on. On certain type of business would be set aside, to be filled by only people who meet these social constraints. Whatever they were.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>To fill the social aims of Congress. Um, I [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Tell me what was your biggest disappointment during this time?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Something…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>I can’t think of one at the moment.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Go wrong after you went half way into it, or something like that?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Pardon?</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Did anything go wrong after you went half way into it?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>No. The only interesting thing was I never intended to stay there.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>I intended to do my first tour of duty, and then get out.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But by the time that, uh, point came up, Air Force requirement is four years of service after commissioning. And the point I had four years of service, and I had three little children. And I knew I needed a Master’s Degree, and there wasn’t any way that I was going to be able to support four little children and a wife and go get a Master’s Degree on my own. And the Air Force says, “We will send you to, uh, George Washington University for your MBA [Master’s of Business Administration], if you would like. All you have to accept is an extended service commitment of three times the length of that year and a half of school.” And then every time I did that, or I got promoted, or I got sent somewhere, there was always a service commitment attached to it. It wasn’t until I had 18 years of service in, that I could’ve get out if I wanted to. At that point, I stopped accepting any offers for anything that had a commitment on it.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I see. That’s understandable. And I think you [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>But by then, I was at Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>I think—I think you’ve your judgments in order.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Because I—I admire what you put first[?].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>But you certainly had an intering—interesting career.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Tell me about something that—funny that happened whence you—when—when you were in one of these places.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Well, alright. Well, uh, the one we were talking about at lunchtime. Military people on active duty, and as a retiree, are entitled to fly space available on military aircraft from one point to another. ‘Course you have last priority.</p>
<p>So we were in Japan, and my wife wanted to go to [South] Korea, which there were frequent flights between Yokota Air Base in Japan and Osan Air Base in Korea. So we went over to Korea, and on the way over we rode on a chartered airliner. And this just like riding in any other airliner, except this one is under charter with the [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense].</p>
<p>And we went shopping in Seoul[, Gyeonggi-do, South Korea]. She bought all kinds of stuff. We got back down to Osan Air Base with the—almost a pick-up truck full of, um, things that she wanted to take, and found out there was no space available going back to Japan. There were lots of people like us and no space going back. And furthermore, there were no hotel rooms available in this little town outside Osan to spend the night.</p>
<p>So I called up my friend, who was the OSI boss in Osan, because this was shortly after my—my OSI tour, so I still knew the people. And he called around, and he called me back, and says, “Okay. Go down to this hotel,” [<em>clears throat</em>] “and they’ll take care of you and put you up for the night.” We did. And the next morning, I informed her that she had just spent the night in a whorehouse.</p>
<p><strong>All<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And how…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>That’s what it was.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And how did you get back? [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So we went back to the base to wait along with all of these other people, and the, uh, wing at Yokota sent a training flight over to Osan. The Air Force flies training flights all the time. They have to. To train the people. Keep their skills up. So they said, “Okay. Well, we got all these people waiting over there. We’ll send this flight over today to Osan to, uh—to pick these folks up.” And they did, in a [Lockheed] C-130 [Hercules]. The C-130 is a flying truck. You sit in the back end of this, and it’s like sitting in the back end of a big truck, on a canvas seat with very little in the way of heat or any sort of comforts whatsoever. So we all filed in there, put all of our luggage in there in front of us, and then…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>In front of you?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>All down the middle of the plane?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Down the middle. This is the bay of a cargo airplane. This is not an airliner.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>You—you’ve seen pictures though</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Now, they’re—they’re…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>In the movies.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>There—they’re about as—about like sitting in the back of a dump truck. Now, you load over the rear of that airplane. That’s how its tailgate goes down. And they can drive tanks, and trucks…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, I’ve seen</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And things like that. So everybody’s in there. We’re all sitting down, and the loadmaster goes to life the tailgate, and it won’t shut. Can’t get the door of the airplane shut.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>So he takes a piece of wire, wraps it around the door, holds it in place…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Take off to go back to Japan.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>All wired up [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And my brother-in-law, who is a—at that time, a paratrooper in the Army—uh, standard joke people ask him, “Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?” And his answer is “Because the Air Force doesn’t have any.”</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Oh, really?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>This was…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Very interesting.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>A perfectly good airplane by Air Force standards. You could wire the door shut and fly.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to tell us before we end?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Oh, I guess that’s probably about it.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Well, you’ve been an easy person, because I was supposed to tell you at the beginning, that this is for you to tell your stories, and I’m just…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Okay[?].</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Just there to ask the questions. But it was, uh—I didn’t have to do that, because you had so many stories, and you told them so well, and it was really interesting, and I’m sure everyone who reads veterans’ stories will like this story.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>If we’ve got time for one more quick[sic] one…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes. We do.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>This is a funny one—to me, a funny one. Seattle is bordered on the eastern side of the city by a 20-mile long fresh water lake called Lake Washington. And One particular day, one of my friends up[?] there and I decided to check out some sailboats, because we had a—a sailboat, rather—as the Navy base had sailboats, and do sailing on Lake Washington. And we did. And we promptly knocked the sailboat down.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>And we got it back up, and then we promptly knocked it down again. Now, the big lesson that I learned about doing that was that a can of beer, if it has not been opened, will float.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Because the beer we had, we can’t—that hadn’t been opened yet—all of it just floated every time we knocked the sailboat over, and so we got it back up, and we got out beer back on board.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Oh, really? That’s interesting. Is it because there’s air in the can?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Or because there’s not very much in it? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>There’s air in the can, and a can of beer is sealed. It can’t get out, and it floats. And I…</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Didn’t know until then that a can of beer will float.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Is there anything else you’d like to tell us…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /> </strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>We conclude?</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Now that I’m thinking about it, I could go all afternoon.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Yes[?]. Well, you were the easiest person to interview, I must say. Um, let’s see there was something I wanted to say to you, as well. Well, we—we thank you very much for being part of this program,</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>And, um, I certainly enjoyed listening to your story, so I think you’ll be a great contributor. And…</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>I hope so.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>So thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Scherer<br /></strong>Good luck.</p>
<p><strong>McGuire<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Yokota Air Base.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Officially the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> September 17, 1945-January 31, 1946.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Also known as the Republic of the Union of Myanmar.</p>
</div>
</div>
2nd Lieutenant
African Enterprise
AFROTC
Air Force
Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps
aircraft
airplanes
Ambassador
AMC
ammunition procurement division
Armed Forces Staff College
Army Materiel Command
Army Military Intelligence Readiness Command
BAA
baht
Bangkok, Thailand
bargains
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
bribery
bribes
business administration
Buy American Act of 1933
C-130
cargo
Chokchai Building
Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints
CID
comfort girls
Community Veterans History Project
Congress
conscription
construction
consultants
contract administrators
contracting
contractors
corruption
Criminal Investigator's Department
CVHP
DCAS
declaration of war
Defense Contract Administration Services
deputy directors
DOD
Downtown Bangkok
drafts
Durban, South Africa
engineering
engineers
Fawley, England
Fussa, Japan
George C. McGuire
George Washington University
GWU
hospitals
Judy Scherer
Korea
Lake Washington
LDS Church
legislation
lieutenant colonel
Lockheed C-130 Hercules
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
Ministry of Defense
MIRC
Missouri
Mom Rajawongse Seni Pramoj
Mormonism
Mormons
NAS Sand Point
Naval Air Station Sand Point
New Jersey
New York City, New York
New York Harbor
Norfolk, Virginia
Notre Dame, Indiana
OIA
oil
oil refineries
oil refinery
orlando
Orlando AFB
Orlando Air Force Base
Orlando International Airport
Osan AB
Osan Air Base
OSI
planes
President of Thailand
presidents
procurement centers
procurement officers
prostitutes
prostitution
Pyeongtaek-si,South Korea
regulations
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
retirement
Rock Island Arsenal
Rose Marie Scherer
ROTC
sailboats
sailing
scandals
Seattle, Washington
Second Lieutenant
Seni Pramoj
Seni Pramoj, Mom Rajawongse
Seoul, South Korea
sex workers
Single Manager for Conventional Ammunition
Squadron Officer School
Statue of Liberty
Summit, New Jersey
Thai
Thai Ministry of Defense
Thailand
tour of duty
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations
U.S. ambassador
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Materiel Command
U.S. Army Military Intelligence Readiness Command
U.S. Department of Defense
U.S. Navy
UND
University of Notre Dame
University of Notre Dame du La
USAF
USAFOSI
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
Warsaw, Missouri
Washington, D.C.
Whiteman AFB
Whiteman Air Force Base
World War II
WWII
Yokota AB
Yokota Air Base
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/99f982aa4276b0be0b4f9b69c9e7085a.pdf
3533161dc69dab00593f352cd8d77806
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
McKinney, Roy
Interviewee
Ekern, Sharon
Location
Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
Duration
20 minutes and 14 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
64kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Sharon L. Ekern
Alternative Title
Oral History, Ekern
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Marine Corps
Description
An oral history interview of Sharon Ekern, who served in the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida (UCF) with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. This interview was conducted by Roy McKinney at UCF on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include Ekern's family life, her education, enlistment in the Marines, boot camp, advanced training, her first duty station, the San Diego Recruit Depot, Parris Island, the Cold War, being assigned to Orlando, serving as a female Marine, the Tailhook Scandal, Camp Smith, her awards and medals, life after service, her employment at UCF, and being an expert markswoman.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:40 Family life<br />0:01:05 Family in the Military<br />0:01:19 Education before joining the Marine Corps<br />0:01:45 Reason for enlistment in the Marines <br />0:02:30 Family reaction to enlistment<br />0:02:49 Boot camp<br />0:03:42 View of instructors - then and now<br />0:04:26 Most memorable experience in boot camp<br />0:04:59 Being a woman in boot camp<br />0:05:20 Advanced training<br />0:06:01 First duty station<br />0:06:24 Role at first duty station<br />0:06:37 Typical day at first duty station<br />0:07:20 Life at San Diego Recruit Depot<br />0:08:00 How Parris Island compared to San Diego<br />0:08:20 Cold War's effect on Military life<br />0:08:59 Entertainment in the Military<br />0:09:55 Assignment in Orlando<br />0:11:10 Being a woman in the Marine Corps/ "Tailhook"<br />0:12:55 Memorable moments at Camp Smith<br />0:14:07 Leaving the Military<br />0:14:58 Reason for leaving the Marines rather than applying to Officer Program<br />0:15:31 Highest rank in the Marines<br />0:15:51 Awards and medals<br />0:16:33 Life after the Marines<br />0:17:04 Joining UCF<br />0:17:04 Contracting and purchasing<br />0:17:50 Contact with Marines<br />0:18:06 Military influence on life<br />0:18:37 Utilizing military experience with UCF<br />0:19:15 Expert marksmanship
Abstract
Oral history interview of Sharon Ekern. Interview conducted by Roy McKinney in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 20-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Albany, Georgia
Camp H. M. Smith, Aiea, Hawaii
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, North Carolina
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, San Diego, California
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, Port Royal, South Carolina
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Ekern, Sharon L.
McKinney, Roy
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/pdf
Extent
599 MB
164 KB
Medium
20-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Roy McKinney and Sharon L. Ekern and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Pawelczyk, J. 2014. "<a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5611524379" target="_blank">Constructing American Female War Veterans' Military Identity in the Context of Interviews</a>." <em>Women and Language</em>: WL. 37, no. 1: 87-112.
Chema, J. Richard. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/227212744" target="_blank"><em>Arresting Tailhook The Prosecution of Sexual Harassment in the Military</em></a><em>. Thesis (LL. M.)--Judge Advocate General's School, United States Army, 1993, 1993.</em>
Browne, Kingsley R. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795374552" target="_blank"><em>Military Sex Scandals from Tailhook to the Present: The Cure Can Be Worse than the Disease</em></a>. Duke Journal of Gender Law & Policy. Duke University School of Law, 2007.
Biank, Tanya. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795168521" target="_blank"><em>Undaunted: The Real Story of America's Servicewomen in Today's Military</em></a>. New York, N.Y.: NAL Caliber, 2013.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Today is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014. My name is Roy McKinney and we are interviewing Dr. Sharon [L.] Ekern. She served in the United States Marine Corps from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. I am interviewing Dr. Sharon Ekern as part of the University of Central Florida’s Community Veterans History Project. This interview is being conducted in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Union, South Carolina. September 18<sup>th,</sup> 1962.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My dad retired from AT&T, and my mom, um, who has been passed away for—gosh—uh, 28 years today, as a matter of fact. She worked for the attorney general of South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How big was your family growing up?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was my parents and two sisters.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were any of your family members in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yes. Um, my stepfather was full time National Guard. My uncle is a retired Navy captain, and I have a couple other uncles who served in the Air Force and Navy.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What type of education did you have before entering the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I went to a small, um, junior college, right out of high school, and was there for two semesters. So I had basically one year of college.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Was there any focus of your studies while there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No, not really.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Uh, why did you decide to enlist in the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I had decided during that second semester that I wasn’t ready for college at that time, and I had moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where my grandparents had retired, and there was an Air Force Base there. Uh, so I had met some Air Force friends and decided at that point that I would join the Air Force. And then when I went to MEPs [United States Military Entrance Processing Command] to do my processing, they couldn’t take me until like maybe the following year. It was maybe nine months, and I wanted to leave in the fall when my friends would be going back to school. So, um, I basically—when I got—when I was there at MEPs, I told them to take me to see the Marines. That—I didn’t want to go in the Army. I didn’t like the uniform that the Navy wore. So...</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did your family relac—react to you enlisting?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Eh, well, they had just got used to the idea of me joining the Air Force, so when I came home and told them I was going in to the Marines, Um, it took a little while, especially for my mother and grandmother to get used to that idea.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And where did you go to boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Parris Island, South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel when you entered boot camp and the whole process of going through—just getting there and your first reactions?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was scared to death. Um, my processing station MEPs was in Colombia, South Carolina. And it wasn’t that—maybe two hours or so. We shipped out on a bus to Parris Island, and I was the only female on the bus. and, um, the person at MEPs had, um, gi—given my package to somebody, uh—to one of the guys that was also, uh, sh—shipping out that day, and he got off the bus with my information with this drill instructor just, you know—he came on the bus and was yelling at them get on the yellow footprints. And then I had to get off the bus and go—and go tell him, you know, that somebody had my package. So I was scared to death.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel about you instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Um, how I felt about them now and how I felt about them then is probably different. Um…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How about both?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was—they kind of played different roles. There was one who was more like the motherly type, and one who was just downright mean, and the other one, who was kind of in between. Um, I was really scared of the one that was just mean, you know? I—I’ve actually been in contact recently with our senior drill instructor on Facebook, so it has been kind of nice, um, you know, touching base with her again. She retired—gosh—after—I don’t know—maybe 25 years in the Marine Corps, there at Parris Island. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So what was your most memorable experience at boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>At boot camp? Gosh. Um, probably the physical training. I, you know—I’ve always been, um—well, probably, more so since. I’ve gotten out. I’ve been athletic, but I don’t know that I was totally prepared when I went in, so that was difficult—the ph—the physical training. So that was probably one of my more memorable.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did being a woman affect you in boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Well, in the Marines, we’re totally separate. I know in some of the, um—maybe all of the other branches—they train together, but we don’t. We’re a separate battalion and, uh, we have no contact with the men. So we were all just together.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I went to several schools. Um, I went to a school right out of boot camp in Albany, Georgia. Um, then I went to my first duty station in San Diego. And, I believe, it was after—yeah. It was—it was after I—no. Maybe it wasn’t San Diego—where I went to another, um, supply school at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And then after I came to Orlando, I went into the contracting and purchasing field and went to several schools. They were at Lowry Air Force Base, because, at the time, the Marines didn’t have a contracting school so we went to the Air—Air Force schools.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So where were you stationed after you were done with training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My first duty station was the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. And then, from there I came here to Orlando to the, uh, recruiting headquarters. I was not a recruiter. I did supply, but I—I was at headquarters. And then from there, I went to Camp [H. M.] Smith in [Aiea,] Hawaii.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your assignment or job while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I started out in supply and, like I said at some point, uh, in my career, I changed to contracts and purchasing.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />And, uh, what was a typical day like for you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>We usually got—usually PT [physical training] was, you know, the first thing we did at least three days a week, if not more. Um, you know, we’d have—PT was around six A.M. and then have to be at work at 7:30. Most days were like typical work day. You know, you went to work, you had your lunch—you know, you got off at a certain time. There were other days when there might be inspections or parades or, you know, other things that might be going on. But ordinarily it was like a typical work day.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Can you describe what it was like working at the Marine—Marine Corps Recruitment Depot at Parris Island?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, I didn’t work there. That’s where—that’s where I received recruit training.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Okay. Can you describe what it was like working at San Dieg—the depot in San Diego?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. It was—I mean—San Diego, of course, is beautiful. And, um, it was good. Um, out there they only trained male Marines. They don’t—they don’t train any women Marines out there, but, um, it was, uh—I think it was a—you know, it was a good first duty station, uh, working with all of the recruits and, um, doing the different, you know, jobs that were assigned to me at the time. And then I worked for a colonel, just in his office, for a good bit of my time there.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the environments of Parris Island and San Diego compare?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, well, I mean—it was two totally different experiences. At Parris Island, I was a recruit, you know. I was going through recruit training and at MCRD [Marine Corps Recruit Depot]. I was—I was basically working there. I was a Marine at that point. So totally different experiences.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the Cold War affect everyday life in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I would say, at least for me and my job, um, you know, it di—didn’t have a big effect. We basically did what we were, you know, assigned to do at, um—at the recruit depot. It was training Marines at the, uh, MCRD—I mean, at, um, the recruiting headquarters here, it was enlisting Marines. So, um, in my everyday job, I wouldn’t say it had a big effect.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How would you entertain yourselves, uh, during your service?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, um, hmm. Let me think back on that. Uh, like I said, it was—since I wasn’t a—a grunt, per se, you know, um, I left and I went home most days, unless there was something special going on, or we were out in the field, or had some special training. So, you know, I think we did pretty much what everybody would do. When I was in, um—here at the recruit station, I had a child. So, you know, I had a family just like most people and I did live in base housing. So it was—it’s a different community, Um—a different culture. But I would say we did what most people would do.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Why were you assigned to the recruitment headquarters in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I’m not exactly sure. Uh—we have what’s called a “monitor” in the Marines, and they decide where you’re going to be—be stationed. And, um, they just decide based on when it’s time for you to depart a duty station and what the needs are. Um, you can put in for several different things, um—several different duty stations. And this was just one that I had, you know, put in for that needed a supply person at the time. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, be stationed here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Where else did you, um, apply for a duty station at?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Gosh, you know, I really don’t remember. Um, I know one of them was in Georgia, because I’m in South Carolina. And I can’t recall now where—oh, Macon, Georgia, I believe it was, because it had a recruiting headquarters there. Um, I thought it’d be nice to be somewhat close to home. Um, but besides that, I really don’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you excited when you were assigned to Orlando? Or how did—how did you feel about the…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was excited. Um, I was excited about the job. I mean it is a bit different being in a recruiting headquarters with maybe 15 Marines ver—versus being on a base full of Marines. Uh, so it was going to be something different. And yeah. I was excited about coming to Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was it like being a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm [<em>laughs</em>]. It could be different at times. Um, the period that I was in was before Tailhook [Scandal]—if you’ve ever even heard of “Tailhook.” No?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was a big sexual harassment scandal, uh, that occurred soon after I got out of the Marine Corps. But when I was in, um, basically, sexual harassment—it was—it wasn’t something that you heard about. So—and women at that time, um, depending on where you were and who you worked with—most men—I won’t say most. Some men made it very clear that didn’t think women should be in their Marine Corps. And so it was—it could be difficult at times. I feel like you always had to, um, you know—you had to be the one to give 110 percent, you know, if you were out on runs or just in your everyday job just to prove yourself.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Was there any time that you felt that you had to prove yourself to someone that was—that looked down on you as a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Oh, yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there any—any example that you can—you can tell us?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I don’t know that I can think of just something—like a particular example. It was more the comments—the everyday comments. Um, it was the things—when we did have to go out on marches or runs, and there were women who couldn’t keep up and, you know, there were women who made up excuses<strong>. </strong>And, you know, that—I think that made it harder for the rest of us, but…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Are there any specific events during your service that stand out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> Events such as?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Um, anything. Um, s—something that you enjoyed, or something that you didn’t enjoy, or just something that sticks out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. At Camp Smith—Camp Smith is built on like the side of a big—I guess you’d call it a mountain. Um, so everything we did was either going up or going down. So anytime we PT’d, we were either running up or we were running down. And we would go on like these marches with, you know, the packs and the Kevlar helmets. And along the side of this mountain—and you’d look down and there wouldn’t be much over there. So that has always stuck out in my mind a lot.</p>
<p>But it was also beautiful there, which, um—I mean, I will definitely have to say I really enjoyed probably being in Hawaii the most, where we were at Camp Smith. Um, with it being on the side of a mountain, you know, we’d look out one side of where we worked and you’d see, um, Diamond Head and look out the other side and there was Pearl Harbor. I mean, it was—it was just a beautiful place to be.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And when did you leave the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>1990.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your last day like in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Sad. Yeah. Really sad. Um, you know, it—even though it was my choice to leave, uh, I had just kind of come to a point where I had to decide. I had finished my bachelor degree and I had to decide if I wanted to, um, try to get into an officer program or, you know, or to get out. And I had made that decision at that point to get out. And, uh, even though I had, you know—it was still difficult to do. You know, I had done this for nine years, and I really, um—I really liked what I did. I felt proud of what I did and I still do. So it was hard going from that to the unknown, you know.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What motivated you to decide to leave the Marines and not go into an officer program?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, an officer program isn’t a guarantee. So if I had signed another enlistment, you know, for three to four years, there’s no guarantee that I would have gotten an officer program. And at the time, I had a three year old son, um, and was a single parent. So that had a lot to do with it.</p>
<p>Um, [Operation] Desert Storm<a title="">[1]</a> was right on the horizon. That started like three months after I got out. So at that point, I did feel like I had, you know, made the right decision. But…<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was the—your highest rank, uh, at the time you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was an E[nlisted Rank]-5 Sergeant, but I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee. Meaning: I had been selected for the next rank. Um, but you just have to wait for a certain date. Um, so I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you awarded any, uh—any awards or medals or citations?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. There were several things, like good conduct medals, national, uh—no. meritorious, um—oh gosh. I had it on my, um, commendation medals, meritorious. Uh, can I look at my DD [Form] 214 [Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty]? I’ve got it with me.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>‘Cause I thought I might not remember something [<em>laughs</em>]. Let’s see. Meritorious unit commendations, um, certificate of commendations, good conduct medals, meritorious mast, certificate of appreciations, letter of commendations and recognition. So those kinds of things.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you do after you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I decided to come back here to Orlando. Um, I didn’t have a job, at the time, lined up, but, um, I had real—I liked Orlando when I was here, uh—when I had been stationed here. And Orlando was sort of close enough to home, but not, you know, too close. So, uh—and I still had some friends here. So I decided to come back to Orlando. I had a job. I had a civilian job, um, for about six months before I started work here at UCF [University of Central Florida].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you come—how did you come—become involved with UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, when I—I—like I had said, I was a contract—I did contracts and purchasing when I was in the Marines. And, um, the job opening here was for the assistant director of purchasing. So I had applied for that and got that job. So that was my—my first position here. So my training in the Marine Corps had, you know, a direct effect on what I do now.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I know this is kind of late but what does contracting and purchasing entail?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, basically we purchased anything that, you know, was needed there on the base. So, it’s—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anyone you still keep in contact with from the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mostly on Facebook. So that’s been a—yeah—a good way to connect with people. And then, um, I went to my first Marine Corps ball in like 25 years this past weekend. So that was—that was really nice. Brought back a lot of good memories.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Do you feel your Military experience changed you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Oh, yes. Definitely. Yeah. Um, like I—like I said, it’s—it’s such a different culture. It’s—it’s even hard to explain, you know? It’s—it’s like I had a 100,000 big brothers and they could pick on me, but nobody else could. And, you know, the—the skills and the leadership, and the, um—they’re just all things that I don’t think I could have learned anywhere else.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you find it easy incorporating that into—your Military experience into your career here at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong> I think it was difficult in the beginning, because the Military is very, you know, black and white. Um, and coming here wasn’t exactly that way. So, even in purchasing, now there are a lot of rules and regulations, uh, in the field of purchasing with the State [of Florida]. It’s still very different than, um, being in the Military. But I think my work ethic, my discipline, um, you know, leadership—I think all of those skills were definitely transferable to what I do here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to talk about with us today?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Hmm. I can’t really think of anything at this time.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I noticed that you had, uh—you were an expert marks[wo]man in the M16-A1…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How was, uh—do you still shoot?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No. I don’t. I did it with my son a couple of times, but it’s been awhile. Um, as a matter of fact, when I first went into the Marine Corps, women did not even qualify with the rifle, which they all do now. But, um—so, in San Diego, that was the first time I’d had to do rifle qualifications, and I was actually second on the—on the, uh—uh, at the range that week. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah. I noticed it said you were “expert marksman.” That’s very impressive.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Expert with the rifle. Only a marksmen with the, uh, pistol. But yeah, I was a good shot [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I’d like to thank you for joining us here today, for helping us out with the Community, uh, Veterans [History] Project and thank you for your service.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> First Persian Gulf War.</p>
</div>
</div>
A1
advanced training
Albany, Georgia
assistant director of purchasing
basic training
boot campRemoves
Camp H. M. Smith
Camp Lejeune
cold war
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
contracting and purchasing
CVHP
Denver, Colorado
Desert Storm
E-5
Ekern, Sharon L.
Enlisted Rank 5
expert marksman
expert marksmen
First Persian Gulf War
Hawaii
Jacksonville, North Carolina
Lowry AFB
Lowry Air Force Base
M16
Marine Corps Ball
Marine Corps Recruit Depot
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego
marines
McKinney, Roy
MCRD
MCRD Parris Island
MCRD San Diego
MEPs
Military Entrance Processing Command
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Parris Island, South Carolina
physical training
PT
Roy McKinney
San Diego, California
Seargant
servicewoman
sexual harassment
sexual misconduct
Sharon L. Ekern
Staff Sergeant Selectee
Student Development and Enrollment Service
Tailhook Scandal
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Marine Corps
UCF
University of Central Florida
USAF
USMC
veteran
veterans
woman
women
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/f46cf5a2404c7eb68d0b59a14abed0b5.pdf
9eb48241393ef6f196ce80e01028d51d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Barnes, Mark
Interviewee
Clark, Jeffrey Edward
Location
Shriners Temple, Maitland, Florida
Original Format
1 Hi-8 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
Duration
33 minutes and 16 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
9980kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Jeffrey Edward Clark
Alternative Title
Oral History, Clark
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Navy
Sailors--United States
Veterans--Florida
Description
An oral history of Jeffrey Edward Clark, former member of the U.S. Navy. This interview was conducted by Mark Barnes at the Shriners Temple in Maitland, Florida, on May 6, 2014. The interview was conducted as part of the UCF Community Veteran's History Project (CVHP) and background research for a memorial honoring the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />Clark served in the Navy from 1985 until 1989. He attended recruit training in Orlando and also went to apprenticeship school at the base. He was a Signalman Petty Officer Third Class, Enlisted Rank 4, aboard the USS<em> Richard E. Byrd DDG-23</em>, which operated in the North Atlantic and Mediterranean Sea. Upon leaving the Navy, Clark returned to Orlando and attended the University of Central Florida.
Table Of Contents
0:00:30 Biographical background<br />0:02:53 Decision to join the U.S. Navy<br />0:04:03 Attending boot camp at NTC Orlando<br />0:10:35 Naval training and assignments following boot camp<br />0:13:50 Apprenticeship school versus boot camp<br />0:17:25 Types of additional training offered at NTC Orlando<br />0:21:15 Shipboard Experiences<br />0:23:25 Life after the Navy<br />0:26:15 Lasting memories of naval experience<br />0:31:05 Legacy of NTC Orlando
Abstract
Oral history interview of Jeffrey Edward Clark. Interview conducted by Mark Barnes at Shriners Temple in Maitland, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/270/rec/1" target="_blank">Clark, Jeffrey Edward</a>. Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. May 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Community Veterans History Project (CVHP)</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Flagler Palm Coast High School, Palm Coast, Florida
Military Entrance Processing Center, Jacksonville, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
South Orange Blossom Trail, Orlando, Florida
Ponta Delgada, Azores Islands, Portugal
Daytona Beach Community College, Daytona Beach, Florida
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Atlanta, Georgia
Creator
Barnes, Mark
Clark, Jeffrey Edward
Publisher
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries
Contributor
Hazen, Kendra
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Wiggins, Leanne
Orleman, Andrew
Date Created
2014-05-06
Date Copyrighted
2014-05-06
Format
video/mov
application/pdf
Extent
2.38 GB
189 KB
Medium
33-minute and 16-second Hi-8 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
18-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mark Barnes and Jeffrey Edward Clark, and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>.
Rights Holder
All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/.
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Barnes, Mark
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/.
Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/270/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Jeffrey Edward Clark</a>
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 33-minute and 16-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/270/rec/1" target="_blank">Clark, Jeffrey Edward</a>. Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. May 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Transcript
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Today is Tuesday, May 6<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I'm interviewing Jeff[rey Edward] Clark, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Mark Barnes, and with me working the camera is Kendra Hazen. We're interviewing Mr. Clark as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project, and as research for the creation of the educational wall for the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]. We are conducting this interview in Maitland, Florida.</p>
<p>Mr. Clark, will you please just begin by telling us your name, where you were born—where and when you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Sure. my name is Jeffrey Clark, and I am originally from East Hartford, Connecticut. I was born in Hartford, Connecticut, on January 31<sup>st</sup>, 1968. And in 1983, my family moved to Florida—to Flagler County in Palm Coast, where I attended Flagler Palm Coast High School.</p>
<p>And then I did drop out of high school at the age of 17, and joined the Navy shortly after my 17<sup>th</sup> birthday, where I went through the Orlando Naval Training Center here.<a title="">[1]</a> Upon completion of my active duty, I returned to—I did obtain my GED (General Educational Development) while I was in the Navy. And then upon completion of my active duty, I did graduate from DBCC—Daytona Beach Community College—and then transferred and graduated at UCF. Major in economics and a minor in political science.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Do you have any brother or sisters or parents you want to tell us about?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Sure. I have two sisters and both of them still reside here in Flagler County in Florida. And then my parents are still alive and live in Flagler County as well. My father—I come from a military family. sort of on the—<em>Forrest Gump</em> movie, I believe, where Lieutenant Dan has an ancestor that had fought in every major American war back to the colonial period. And I have that same line or lineage as well. Goes back to the <em>Mayflower</em> on my father's side.</p>
<p>My father served in the Navy and went through Bainbridge, Maryland, for his boot camp, and then was aboard an aircraft carrier—the USS <em>Chiwawa</em> CV40. And my grandfather—his father—served in World War II. Uh, he was in the Army and was stationed in the Philippines.</p>
<p>And then on my mother's side—my mother is also from—both my father and my mother are from Connecticut, as well. And my mother's side of the family—they were Italian immigrants. my grandfather immigrated in the 19—well, both my grandparents immigrated from Italy to the U.S. in the 1920s. And then when they were younger, obviously—and my mother was born in 1945 and my father was born in 1939.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And did you join the Navy for any particular reason?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Actually, that was a bit of an interesting story. Now, one time, when I was around eight or nine years old, I filled out this application to inquire about the Navy out of a magazine or something like that. And, obviously, you could tell that a child wrote it. Well my father took it as a joke and mailed it in, and I always wanted to join the Navy for—I don't know, because I enjoyed history and my father was in the Navy. So my father mailed this application form in to send information about joining the Navy, and I received this letter from a captain in the Navy that said, you know, “Sorry,” you know, “but you're too young.” And he gave me a couple posters and some other items to say, “Here's some stuff to help you keep thinking Navy, and when you're old enough,” you know, “please come back." Well, pretty much came back at the minimum age possible, and I always wanted to join the Navy when I was a child. I think it was that TV commercial—“It's not just a job. it's an adventure.”</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So was the Navy a must for you?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Pretty much. yeah. <em>[air conditioning unit comes on]</em></p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So you said you attended boot camp in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>In Orlando, at the Naval Training Center.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And was that by choice, or did they just tell you where to go?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Um, I would like to think it was by choice, because when I joined in this February—and having lived in Florida and being accustomed to the warm weather—I told the recruiter that I would go into the Navy now, if I could go to Orlando or San Diego, and not Great Lakes. Because there were three facilities for boot camp in the Navy—Great Lakes, San Diego, and Orlando, at that time. And I remember my father was very anxious. He said, “Well, you're going to go in now,” you know, “take him.” But somehow—luck, I would presume—I went through Orlando.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>We'll come back to this, but what were you trained to do for the Navy? What was your job? Or your jobs?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Initially, when I went in, I was a basic seaman recruit to do basic shipboard tasks, such as, you know, chipping paint and painting. and in the boats and bay field, sort of basic deck board duties. However, during the course of the time, I did become a signalman, which was communications and navigation, primarily with Morse code, with flashing lights—semaphore, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Semaphore?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>In the flags. And that “A” school by the way. If I had entered the Navy as a signalman instead of a basic seaman recruit, the training for the Signalman School was here in Orlando, as well, at the Naval Training Center.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>We're going to circle back through your life as a recruit, and then we'll circle back through your life as a sailor. So when you first got to—your first day off the bus, so to speak, you know, what were some of the biggest adjustments you had to make going through?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Alright. I'm going to take a step back from the bus over to the Orlando Naval Training Center, since we're in the state of Florida. I'll keep us in the state of Florida. So, when you enter the military, you go to your recruiting office and you complete all that, and they, I presume, do the background checks—similar—probably similar to any new employment process, if you're hiring somebody.</p>
<p>So one of the key things after you go through that, you have to go through what they call the “MEPs center”—Military Entrance Processing facility—and that was in Jacksonville. And up there you get an initial physical, and they determine if you're—kind of the final step—if you're worthy enough to go on active duty. So I went through that in Jacksonville, and I remember going through there and, for some reason, I had thought that I was not going to enter the Navy until the summertime. And this one naval chief overheard me say that, and he said, “What did you say?” And I said, “I’m not going on active duty until the summer.” I say, “I get to go home, you know, after I go through the MEPS process today.” and he said, “Oh, no you’re not. You’re going in tomorrow morning, and I’m going to personally see to it.” I guess I was talking out of line.</p>
<p>So anyways[sic], we rode a bus from Jacksonville—and I remember I had to call my parents and say, “I’m not coming home.” [<em>laughs</em>] It was kind of sudden and quick. So we rode a bus from Jacksonville. and of course, we didn’t even take [Interstate] 95 and [Interstate] 4. It was like going on a Greyhound. I think it took about five hours to get there, because, you know, we went down, you know, [U.S. Route] 17, and then through Palatka, and all the back roads through there to get to Orlando. So we made it there, and they drop us off at the bus—at the bus area.</p>
<p>And then you kind of get indoctrinated where you come in and you start to, initially—so the initial shock was like, “Wow. this is for real.” But you still had your civilian clothes and you still had your hair. And so—and then that way you—you got your assignment, you know, where your—what your company you're going to be, what building at the Orlando Naval Training Center would be your home for the course of boot camp. And then the next day was kind of, you know—the first couple days were kind of intrigue, you know—kind of getting indoctrinated. And you go through a health screen, you go through and get your hair cut, and your clothes and all that assigned, then you begin your boot camp.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Do you have anything that stands out from your time?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong> Oh yes. Yeah. definitely. So, for example—and at this time I obviously had more hair than I do now—but I was very proud of my hair. You know, “pretty boys,” as they would say in the Navy. and when I got my head shaved, I didn't look at myself in a mirror for about five or six weeks. I remember I would feel it and be like, <em>Oh</em>. And luckily they didn't have mirrors or anything in the boot camp berthing area—you know, the living area. So I made a purpose not to look at myself. That was the biggest, biggest shock.</p>
<p>The other shock that I had was I was going to have to learn how to fold clothes, because—kind of like out of a movie, where, you know, my mommy is able to wash, fold, and put my clothes away for me. But that changed, and I had to learn how to fold clothes.</p>
<p>But I was a baseball player in high school and very physically active, so the physical nature of boot camp that everybody thinks about—the physical activity was really not an issue for me. I was already in pretty good shape from playing baseball and other physical activities.</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Do you have any memories from when you graduated? Did your folks come down?</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Yes. As part of the process, there was a graduation ceremony. And, like, my family, including my father's parents—my grandparents—came down and they went to the graduation ceremony, and they were able to get a tour of the facility. And it’s like a parade ground, and they set up these bench area bleachers. and the families were able to watch us do our Pass and Review and hear the speeches from the—from Captain Nice, who was the Recruit Training Center commanding officer and NCS (National Call to Service) conductor of ceremony. Then afterwards, everybody went home.</p>
<p>But, you know, we were able to meet up and, you know, it was good for my family to be there to see that. And that was, you know, an equivalent of like a high school graduation. I would say very similar, but you know dressed in military and military ceremony.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>When you graduated from boot camp, what was your next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Sure. upon graduating boot camp—boot camp lasted about eight and a half weeks. I actually entered active duty on February 26<sup>th</sup>, 1985, and then boot camp officially started March 1<sup>st</sup>. And, as I mentioned, those first couple of days were, you know, getting your hair cut, and getting your clothes, and getting indoctrinated.</p>
<p>And then when I graduated, I started—I continued at the Orlando Naval Training Center. They did have additional training schools there. The one I went to is—when I entered the Navy, I entered the Apprenticeship Training Program. and that was open to individuals who wanted to focus on more of a general—kind of like a liberal arts, if you want to call it that—to compare it to college. So there was a Seaman Apprenticeship, a Firemen Apprenticeship, and an Air Apprenticeship.</p>
<p>And then once you completed that training, then you would get assigned to a permanent duty station. So seamen went in to, you know—were eligible and did a cross-range of duties, such as, in the boatmen mate field, which is the deck duty. And then airmen, you know, went and supported, you know, aircraft either on carriers or as part of a detachment. And firemen kind of could go on ships, because they were the ones who worked down in what we called “the pit”—the boiler room and the engine rooms where the boiler technician rates and the machinist mates ran that. So I went through the Seaman Apprenticeship Training program.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Were there certain classes you had to take, or do you know about the classes from the various—from the three places you just—the three schools you just described?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Yes. So basically how the Orlando Naval Training Center was set up is you kind of had—there were—if I remember—I think there were 10 buildings—10 or 12 buildings. And it was set up very, you know, military-style. On one end, you had sort of—and they were called—I forget what they were called. But there's like Building One, Building Two, etc. So on each end was kind of like the administrative offices, and then in between and in sequential order on each side, I think there was[sic] 12. There was[sic] 2 on the end, and five this way and five that way. And then on one side—and, in the middle, there was a divider, like a road that went through the middle. And on one side was strictly where boot camp was conducted. and on the other side is where the schools were conducted. They were the living quarters basically, or “berthing areas,” as they’re called in the Navy.</p>
<p>And so I went through the Seaman Apprenticeship Training. It was a series of classroom training and on-the-job training. They did the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, which was there—which was a training, you know—simulation of a ship and so we would go perform for seamen apprenticeship training. You know, how to tie knots, how to tie up the ship, how to raise flags, and other things associated with the Seamen Apprenticeship. And then the fireman did similar things, where, you know, they went in and simulated what jobs they would do once they went to the fleet. And that apprenticeship training was approximately four weeks for that.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>How would you describe the relationship between your instructors on that side versus your instructors on...</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>The recruit side?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>On the recruit side, the boot camp, you know, was very strict. Very boot camp. very structured. You know, very military. You know, “controlling” is—I guess, would be a way to describe it. You know, your day was fully planned. You, you know—we woke up at four<sub> A.M.</sub> We went, you know—we did some initial drills and then we have our set breakfast time. You know, Company 101’s breakfast was from say 5:00 to 5:30.</p>
<p>You came back, you washed up, you know, brushed your teeth—whatever. Then you had set criteria of everyday what you would do. And most of it was practicing marching for your graduation ceremony, as well as other, you know, stuff that was boot camp related. You know, physical activity, swimming, firefighting drills that everybody needs to know for the military, and other basic stuff.</p>
<p>Now this was a little bit more specialized, and it was, like I said, classroom and on-the-job training. I would say that there was a bit more freedom. It was like a 9-to-5 job. You know, you woke up, you started class at eight o'clock, you had lunch from 12 to 1, and you were free to go do what you want.</p>
<p>In addition, I guess the big thing was—you were free on the weekends to go do whatever you wanted. Whereas in boot camp, you know, you were in boot camp and you were not allowed to leave. The only time that we left boot camp was after six weeks, we were granted what they called a “restricted liberty,” where it was kind of like an elementary school field trip. You know, like SeaWorld or [Walt] Disney [World], or somewhere like that. And it was very restricted. And, you know, it was covered.</p>
<p>And then you had an unrestricted liberty, like the week before you graduated, and that’s where you could stay within the city of Orlando, and kind of go anywhere you want and you had to be back at a certain time. And I guess a story for this would be—everybody—all the instructors and the officers—would say South OBT [Orange Blossom Trail] is off limits, because it’s kind of a dodgy area. But of course, where does everybody go? South OBT.<a title="">[2]</a> So that’s pretty much where unrestricted liberty went.</p>
<p>And then, like I said, during the apprenticeship training you were free to do[sic] on the weekend. and then I used to go home, you know. My mother would come pick me up or my father would come pick me up, and I’d visit my friends on the weekend, and then I had to be back Monday morning by eight o’clock to go to class. So it didn’t really matter, but I’d usually come back Sunday night, because we were still living in our living quarters. I guess the way I’d compare, you know, is boot camp was kind of like, you know, elementary school and high school. Very structured, very strict, limited. And apprenticeship training was more like college, where, “Hey, this is what you got to do,” you know, “Here's your times. the rest of that’s up to you.”</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now you had—when you said you were living there, did you guys have apartments almost when you were an apprentice?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>No. It was very—it was the same as what we had in boot camp. You know, the same structure. So basically it was an open area, like a barracks, and it was for enlisted. Now, officers tended to have the equivalent of more like the hotel or a small apartment, and they would usually share that with one other officer, depending on their rank. But general enlisted—and this even continued into the Navy with various living quarters on ships—whether you were enlisted or if you were chief, which was a senior enlisted person—kind of like middle management. Where if you were an officer, different living quarters. So it was an open area, and it had bunk beds and lockers for you to store your stuff. It was the same as in boot camp.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now, outside of the schools—the training schools—the command schools that you went to—do you have any recollection of the other schools that maybe were offered at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Um, yes. from what I recall, because, as I went—during my time in the Navy, I went on, and—they call it “striking out”—I don't know why they call it that, because it’s actually a win ,you know—but basically, you get to move on from sort of a general, seaman apprenticeship-type role to a more specialized one. And I became a signalman, which was the shipboard flags communications and navigation, as well as communications with flashing lights via Morse code and semaphore. And the Signalman School was here in Orlando.</p>
<p>And also—and then—so basically the school structure was as follows. You had the generalists, the Apprenticeship Training Program that I talked about that I went through. Then you had “A” schools, which was[sic] schools that were for a specific job in the Navy, whether you were a storekeeper, a signalman, or, you know, something like that. Then there were also “C” schools, and “C” schools were for very specialized skills which normally required and extended enlistment period, such as six years active duty.</p>
<p>And so, during that time, people were kind of classified based on what their enlistment was that they signed up for. There were the 3-by-6s, which meant you were three years active and then six years of inactive reserves. Or IRR, right—“Inactive Readiness Reserves” I believe is the military term. There were 4-by-4s—and I was a 4-by-4—which meant four years active, four years inactive. And then there were the 6-by-2s, which were the specialty folks who went to extended training. They were six years active and then two years inactive reserves. Unless, of course, if they re-enlisted on active duty, then they would continue.</p>
<p>And the key thing about “C” school was that, once you completed about a two-year classroom/on-the-job training program, you automatically became an E[nlisted Rank] 4—a petty officer third-class. We used to call those people “boot camp thirds.” Because, like, as you go through, you know, you'll be an E-1, E-2, E-3, and then E-4. whereas these guys automatically got credits, basically like college, you know—you got some free credits. So there were some “C” schools here, including the Nuclear Program was here, and the Signalman School was here, and I think—no. The Storekeeper School was in Mississippi. that wasn’t here. But from what I remember, Apprenticeship Training, Signalman, and there was, like, Fire Control Technicians, Radar Schools.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Any other—anything else you think about—life off of base, special to base?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>I guess just kind of life on the base. There was Navy Exchange, so if you were a retired naval person—and Florida accumulated a lot of, you know, a lot of retirees and a lot of military retirees, because of the history with Sanford and Orlando—so the Navy Exchange store was there. So if you were active duty or if you were retired military, you could do your shopping. In certain cases, get things a lot cheaper than out in the regular market.</p>
<p>Other than that, it was pretty much, from what I remember, just a training facility. I remember there was a high school on—right on the outside of the base. Seemed like—sometimes we would joke like we were kind of in prison, you know, and you could see the freedom on the other side. I remember, you know, like we would be marching on the grinder and doing all these drills, and you'd look over and see these high school kids running track and field, or, you know, something like that at the high school, and you're thinking we're in prison, but…</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>When you left Orlando, you boarded a ship?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Yes. Upon completion of my apprenticeship training course—a little bit more of the story here is I had a chief petty officer. I forget his name, but you received your orders where you went to go, and I was always kind of joking around a little bit with the chief. And sure enough, where I get stationed, but the same ship he had come from to the Orlando Naval Training Center. so I remember he told me it was going to be tough, and that he was gonna—he arranged to have me go to the USS <em>Richard E. Bird</em> TDG-23—guided missile destroyer—ported out of Norfolk, Virginia. And that's where I went. And, interesting enough, this chief I then met years later when I was attending UCF and I was working at NationsBank—now Bank of America. He was a customer in there, and I remember him when he came in. we chatted and caught up, and he was living out by UCF at the time, and he was a customer at the bank.</p>
<p>But I caught my ship and I remember it was in the middle of deployment, towards the tail end of the North Atlantic—NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] cruise. And I remember I had received my orders and I had to go there, and I had all my airplane tickets. They arranged and all that. And I looked on there and I'm like, <em>Where is this place called Ponta Delgada? </em>And there was no Internet in 1985, so I had to go look in the encyclopedia, and it was in the Azores Islands—Portuguese islands in the Atlantic Ocean. I remember I flew from Orlando to New York, and then caught airport to Lisbon[, Portugal], and had a couple night’s stay in Lisbon overnight, and then caught the flight to Ponta Delgada, where I caught my ship. And I still remember the first people I met, who I'm still in contact with today, on board my ship. Gary Hayne[sp], Kurt Kiesden[sp], and Alan Welch[sp] in particular, because I was assigned to deck division, and I was assigned to them.<a title="">[3]</a> And then from there, you know, I was assigned to the ship and that became my permanent duty station that I stayed at for the remainder of my term—three years and eight months.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So you left the Navy when?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>In February ’89. Four years active duty, and then served in the inactive reserves, which just meant if there's a call up, then you were subject.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>What did you end up doing when you left the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Okay. When I left the Navy, I started attended Daytona Beach Community College, which I think is now Daytona State College or something. and so I stayed in Flagler County and just did kind of odd jobs. I worked in a warehouse, primarily while I went to DBCC. And then I started working in the bank as a bank teller and then a sales and service rep[resentative].</p>
<p>And that actually worked out well, because, at the time, with the state, you could complete your first two years at a community college, then automatically transfer into any of the Florida state university system campuses. So I transferred to Orlando, because I worked at the bank it was quite an easy transfer to move over. So I started UCF in the Fall of ’93, after graduating from DBCC in the Spring of ’93. And then I graduated in Spring of ‘95 from UCF.</p>
<p>And also, I guess, during the—some other good things—when I became a basic seaman apprenticeship and I was assigned to the deck division on board, besides just chipping paint and doing all the deck stuff, the favorite thing—and I still remember it today, and it was one of my favorite things—you know, I barely had my driver's license—but at age 17, I qualified as a helmsman, and I drove the ship. I was at the wheel, and I qualified to run the ship's engines—the lee helm. and I used to stay on lookout watch. So here I was at 17 years old—and I actually saw a video on YouTube, like a Navy video, and it shows, like, the 22-year-old guy says, “Yeah. this is my job.” He says the same thing.</p>
<p>And I still remember to this day how to take the helm. You would go up—if you were to take the helm—let’s just say you’re at the wheel now—now I would walk up to the—well, I would first come to you and say, “Hey, what’s[sic] the coordinates? Where do you steer and where do you check in?”And that’s sort of the numbers from the compass of where—what direction you were going. I’d collect that, I’d go check what the speed was in knots, and then I would go up to the Officers’ Deck and salute, and he would say, “Officer of the deck, request permission to take the helm, steering course 225, checking 222 starboard unit, starboard cable, all engines ahead standard, 17 knot.” And the officer on deck would reply back and say, “Relieve the helm.” Then he would go over and then I would—I would take over. Yeah. it’s cool.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Well I was getting ready to ask you, what were some of your favorite memories of the...</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Oh, okay. alright. That’s a great one.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Do you have another one there that...</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Oh. Yeah. There’s[sic] plenty of them—and then really anything you tend to do, you know, in your life, it’s really about the people. And, you know, made some great friends. Still in contact with a lot them today. And lessons learned, you know, as a young kid—17 to 21, while I was in the Navy. And there’s a lot of memories, you know, of growing up doing stuff.</p>
<p>And I guess another thing is—I was always kind of a prankster a little bit, and I used to come home on leave for spring break, so I could be with all my friends. And we'd go to Daytona [Beach] and all that. One time I went off-base and I got—the senior chief, Senior Chief Moses, who was in charge of deck division, who I worked for—his plan was, you know, you had to look like a sailor. He was very strict with inspections. Well, one time I was trying to sneak and I went off-base and I got what he would call a “pretty-boy haircut.” So I came back and sure enough someone told on me and he personally walked me down to the ship’s barber and butchered me or whatever.</p>
<p>And so, as a retaliatory, I decided next day, <em>I’m going to go put some red mousse in my hair and go stand inspection in front of him.</em> Big mistake [<em>laughs</em>]. I remember he walked up to me, put his face in my face, and he goes, “Take your hat off, punk.” And he was this Texas—Texan guy. Big Texan guy. I took it off and I was smiling, and I wasn’t smiling much after that. He told me I had exactly two seconds to wash that “expletive” out of my hair or he was going to personally shave my head. [<em>laughs</em>] Let’s just say I jumped down the forward hatch and had the stuff out pretty quickly. [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>This kind of ties into this whole project that we’re doing and you mentioned it, but you made a lot of personal friends. You’re still in contact with them?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Yep. Yeah. Out on Facebook. They're all in on Facebook. We have our ships—we have a page of our ships, and so a lot of us connected through there, but even before that there was like a newsletter and some reunions that go. Because I was on an older ship that was commissioned in the early 60s and then decommissioned shortly after I left in 1990. So, you know, there’s[sic] 30 years of history pretty much with my ship that I was on. So the reunions—you have 30 years of people who served on board. So it’s quite large and extensive.</p>
<p>And then I always try to make the effort to visit some of the folks. I travel extensively for my current job, and if I go to a city where one of those guys are, you know, we always try to meet up. And a lot of them are kind of joking when, you know, I first got connected with them, say on Facebook, and they say, “I can’t believe you’re this corporate guy in a suit. You’re the last guy we would have thought as a corporate guy in a suit.”</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Is this your first trip—you've been back to Orlando since?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. And actually, I guess after I finished the Navy, I graduated from UCF, and then worked locally in Altamonte [Springs] at the Kirchman Corporation, which was a banking software company. And then I worked for Pro Systems in Maitland. and then I went to—on an assignment to Luxemburg in Europe. I was there for a couple years. and then I came back and I was on a project in San Francisco[, California]. And then—then this was 2001.</p>
<p>So basically the time scale goes from exited active duty in ‘89, college until ‘95, Kirchman Corporation and Pro ‘96-‘97, Luxemburg from ‘98 to 2001, and then San Francisco for about a half a year. And then I came back to Maitland, and was working in Maitland and lived in Apopka from 2001 ‘till 2005, when I moved to Atlanta[, Georgia], and I've been in Atlanta since 2005.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>What do you think about all of the changes of the area that used to be the base?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>You know, it’s kind of somewhat sad. There’s really nothing left there. Karla Novak was a personal friend of mine from when—from UCF days—gave me a tour around the Lone Sailor Foundation and the plans for that. And she showed me where the statue is going to be, you know, we’re kind of—both her and I went through there. So we were thinking this is—and she says, “Well, this is the old grinder.” and she was saying, “Remember we’d go over here and have to do these drills?”</p>
<p>Well, now it’s this open grass area. or over there is the housing where our berthing area—but now Baldwin Park is there. So it’s somewhat sad to think that—and I'm kind of one that—I like to preserve history. I wouldn’t want to say you have to preserve the base as-is, but you know, I think how important and how many lives, you know, were shaped, such as mine, going through boot camp. You know, going from being a kid to being an adult basically. you know, that there’s really not much left there.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Well, what do you think the legacy of the base is?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>I would say the legacy of the base is going to be, you know, the individual experiences of the people that really went through there. I mean, there’s not much left to see of, you know—what was left there, what was done. It was, you know, a training facility, classroom, and on-the-job training basically. You know, so there’s not much left as far as what you think of the Navy. You know, ships or aircraft or weapons or anything like that. I really think it’s about personal experience. And everybody had a different experience. You know, what they went through there.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>As a returning sailor, what would want to see if you returned back to the area to see the memorial? I mean, what would resonate with you?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>I think some pictures, you know, of the facility itself, you know. Kind of like, if you went into a museum, you like to see this was Orlando Naval Training Center was here from 1968 ‘till 1992, or something like that. Here’s the pictures and, you know, kind of what, you know—like for my boot camp book—went there, you know. There’s[sic] pictures in there that show the activities and kind of what went on there, and everything’s changed from, you know—boot camp is probably similar, but there’s a lot of changes, you know.</p>
<p>And I think preserving the history and at least showing that, while we can—would be, you know, a good thing. You know, to show there with the Lone Sailor—the Lone Sailor is a great thing to—to reflect their—well, I think any memorabilia or, you know, pictures that show at one point in time this is what was here and quantify it. You know, x-number of people went through during this time who were the commanding officers, you know, kind of like any similar memorials or stuff like that.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>That’s about all I have. Is there anything that we missed that you’d like to add or a story you'd like to share?</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>I think I pretty much covered everything. You know, that was my time here in Orlando at the Naval Training Center for boot camp and then kind of post activities. So I think we've pretty much covered the full spectrum of your questions there, so.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Okay. Well, thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Clark<br /></strong>Thank you. I'm glad to help.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> The Orlando Naval Training Center will occasionally be referred to throughout the interview as “NTC Orlando.”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> South OBT refers to a portion of U.S. 441, known as Orange Blossom Trail in parts of Orlando, Florida.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Note that names are spelt as they sound and may not be accurate.</p>
</div>
</div>
active duty
Air Apprenticeship Training
airman
airmen
Apopka
apprentices
apprenticeship schools
Apprenticeship Training Program
Atlanta, Georgia
Atlantic Ocean
Azores Islands
Bainbridge
Baldwin Park
Bank of America
bank tellers
Barnes, Mark
basic seaman recruits
berthing areas
boot camp
boot camps
chief petty officer
chief petty officers
Clark, Jeffrey Edward
Community Veterans History Project
Company 101
CVHP
Dan Taylor
Daytona Beach Community College
DBCC
deck divisions
deployment
E-1
E-2
E-3
E-4
East Hartford, Connecticut
Enlisted Rank 1
Enlisted Rank 2
Enlisted Rank 3
Enlisted Rank 4
Facebook
Fire Control Technicians
firefighters
fireman
firemen
Firemen Apprenticeship Training
Flagler County
Flagler Palm Coast High School
Forrest Gump
Greyhound
guided missile destroyers
Hayne, Gary
Hazen, Kendra
helmsman
helmsmen
I-4
I-94
immigrants
Inactive Readiness Reserves
inactive reserves
Interstate 4
Interstate 95
IRR
Italian immigrants
Italians
Kiesden, Kurt
Kirchman Corporation
lee helms
Lieutenant Dan
Lone Sailor Foundation
Lone Sailor Memorial Committee
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Luxemburg
Maitland
Mayflower
Mediterranean Sea
Mediterranean Squadron
MEP
Military Entrance Processing
Morse code
Moses
NationsBank
NATO
Naval Training Center Orlando
Navy Exchange
Navy Memorial of Central Florida
Nice, France
Norfolk, Virginia
North Atlantic
North Atlantic Squadron
North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Novak, Karla
NTC Orlando
Nuclear Program
OBT
officers
Orange Blossom Trail
Orleman, Andrew
Palm Coast
Petty Officer
Petty Officers
Philippines
Ponta Delgada, Portugal
Pro Systems
Radar School
recruit training
recruits
sailors
sales representatives
San Francisco, California
Seaman Apprenticeship Training
seamen
semaphore
service representatives
Shriners Temple
signalman
Signalman School
signalmen
Storekeeper School
U.S. Army
U.S. Navy
U.S. Route 17
U.S. Route 441
U.S.S Richard E. Byrd DDG-23
UCF
University of Central Florida
US-17
US-441
USS Bluejacket
USS Chiwawa CV40
USS Richard E. Bird TDG-23
veterans
Welch, Alan
Wiggins, Leanne
World War II
WWII
YouTube
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c62bcd04e26ae9d751548bdafe27b133.pdf
8f30ddfb5649a986242427f6e728aa76
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Barnes, Mark
Interviewee
Kidd, Scott T.
Location
<a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>, Orlando Florida
Duration
47 minutes and 10 seconds
Original Format
1 Hi-8 audio/video recording
Bit Rate/Frequency
2418kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Scott T. Kidd
Alternative Title
Oral History, Kidd
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Navy
Veterans--Florida
Description
An oral history of former recruit training Commander Scott T. Kidd. This interview was conducted by Mark Barnes at the University of Central Florida's Colbourn Hall in Orlando, Florida. This oral history was produced as part of the Community Veterans History Project (CVHP) and the Lone Sailor Memorial Committee for the purpose conducting background research for a memorial honoring the former Orlando Naval Training Center (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />Kidd was a former recruit commander at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) from 1989 to 1993. He also served in the U.S. Navy from 1983 to 1994. Kidd was the first recruit commander at the base to lead a fully integrated company of male and female recruits. He also served on the USS <em>Ponce</em> LPD-15, the USS <em>Niagara Falls</em> AFS-3, and the USS <em>Iowa</em>.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:41 Biographical information<br />0:03:03 Assignments<br />0:06:24 Transfer to NTC Orlando<br />0:10:08 Responsibilities as a recruit training commander<br />0:12:32 Experience of the recruits<br />0:20:05 The training of male and female recruits<br />0:26:26 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:32:50 Additional training<br />0:36:30 Development of simulation training<br />0:38:48 Assignments following time at NTC Orlando<br />0:40:43 Legacy of NTC Orlando<br />0:44:17 Lone Sailor Memorial
Abstract
Oral history interview of Scott T. Kidd. Interview conducted by Mark Barnes at <a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>, in Orlando Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Kidd, Scott T.</a> Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. February 2, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Community Veterans History Project (CVHP)</a>, Library of Congress, http://www.loc.gov/vets/.
Coverage
Richland, Washington
Naval Station Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois
Norfolk, Virginia
Mediterranean Sea
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Barnes, Mark
Kidd, Scott T.
Publisher
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries
Contributor
Maldonado, Fernando
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-02-12
Date Copyrighted
2014-02-12
Format
video/mov
application/pdf
Extent
872 MB
163 KB
Medium
47-minute and 10-second Hi-8 audio/video recording
18-page typed transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mark Barnes and Scott T. Kidd, and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>.
Rights Holder
All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/.
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Barnes, Mark
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/.
Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Scott T. Kidd</a>
Has Format
Digital transcript of orginal <span>47-minute and 10-second oral history</span>: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Kidd, Scott T.</a> Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. February 2, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Transcript
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Today is February 12<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Scott [T.] Kidd, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Mark Barnes, and with me is Fernando Maldonado, who is working the camera. We are interviewing Mr. Kidd as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project, and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at UCF [University of Central Florida], in the city of Orlando, Florida. Mr. Kidd, or Scott, however you would like to be directed.</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Scott is fine.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Scott. So, if you could just give us some of your early biography. Where were you born? Your brothers or sisters, mother, father?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Sure. I was born in Richland, Washington. I have six brothers and sisters. Single-parent family. Raised there in the [19]60s. Left home when I was 15, as part of the late 60s-early 70s liberal generation movement. Early—bounced around the California-Las Vegas area. Got married.</p>
<p>Decided I would join the military and clean my act up, at a certain point in life. And then spent 12 years in the service. After multiple experiences there, I received a medical retirement, due to some contamination from a command I was with.</p>
<p>And moved on into real life. I opened a couple of businesses. got into broadcasting. And now, I run a company that is involved in putting science and technology companies together with young students in order to do career guidance.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes <br /></strong>Good. And what year did you join the Navy? And what were your reasons for choosing the Navy over other services branches?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I joined the Navy in actually February of—yeah—February of 1983. And, at that time, we were busy—the United States, in particular, was busy—enjoying a massive recession. Huge unemployment. Eighteen percent—18 to 20 percent interest rates on home loans. There was a lot of convulsions there, and I had a young family that I needed to be able to take care of. So, like many people, I joined for the job. I selected the military, because—quite frankly, I selected the Navy, because they gave me a bonus, which came in quite handy at the time. So like many people in the military who joined, it was for the money—for the job.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And what were some of your first experiences coming out of boot camp—some of your first assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Okay. here’s a little entertainment. First place, I was—even though I was born in Washington, I sort of made my way to warmer clim[ate]s, like the L.A. [Los Angeles] and Las Vegas areas. When I joined the service, in February of 1983, the Navy and its infinite wisdom sent me to Great Lakes, Illinois, which is the north end of Chicago. Directly on the lake. Now for those of you unaware of it, it’s frickin’ cold up there [<em>laughs</em>]. So when you have a chill factor of minus 35 [degrees], it, ah, persuades you that—it gives you second thoughts about your [<em>laughs</em>] —your move to join the military. But any rate, I completed boot camp there, and my initial training—I was actually there for a best part of the year.</p>
<p>And my first duty assignment was in Norfolk, Virginia, with a ship called the USS <em>Shenandoah</em>—I forgot to mention it down there—brand new ship that had just been commissioned. I was what was known as a “boiler technician.” I was persuaded to become a boiler technician, because the recruiter I spoke to was a chief boiler technician who told me what a great job it was. And, oh, he lied [<em>laughs</em>]. I will tell you, this is not just for me, but through your conversations with anyone else in here, one of the most common refrains you will hear from folks who served in, ah—in any of the branches is that, “My recruiter lied to me.” [<em>laughs</em>]. That is just—it should be on Hallmark cards.</p>
<p>But regardless, when I started on board the <em>Shenandoah</em>, which was a tender ship—in other words, it was a repair ship, so it brought supplies and performed repairs on other ships while they were deployed. So we would accompany battle groups of ships that would go on cruises. For example, Mediterranean cruise would normally be scheduled to last for about six months. It would include an aircraft carrier, some destroyers, support ships, this-and-that, and we would—we were the type of ship that would go a long with that group in order to keep them functioning over that six month period. So my job was to work on propulsion—stuff which is what boilers were for. We built steam. Interesting experience.</p>
<p>It was also one of the first ships in the Navy that had a sexually-integrated crew. Because at that time, women were not permitted in contact—in combat roles. Because this particular ship was considered a support ship it was—it did not put anyone in direct combat. Ergo, you could have women sailors.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes <br /></strong>What year was…</p>
<p><strong>Kidd <br /></strong>That was 1984.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>What—when did you come to NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /> </strong>I was stationed starting in June of 1989. I was—what was called? My first shore duty command, which meant that I did not have to go to sea for a while.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And how did you come about getting that assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>My assignment at NTC Orlando was actually with the subcommand RTC Orlando—Recruit Training Command. This is kind of important—an important distinction in that, as background, if—in order to get promoted in the military, you had to show your skill and availability, flexibility in different types of roles. Those roles would usually include assignments. Now, there were certain assignments that you could take in the Navy that enhanced your resume, and virtually guaranteed your promotion to the next level.</p>
<p>For enlisted people, promotion—you went through E[nlisted Rank] 6—is essentially strictly a test taking job. The Navy says how many it needs, you take a paper test, and if you score high enough on that test, you get promoted. The promotion to E-7—the E-7 through E-9 grades, which is senior enlisted, is based on different criteria, along with taking tests. It’s also a lot of interview and examination of your service record, what type of assignments you had, skill sets, etc. Performance-based. So, if you wanted to be promoted to E-7, which is kind of important for a number of reasons, you had to take some demanding assignments. RTC Orlando recruit—being a recruit company commander slot, there was one of those type of assignments that would get you—if you completed it successfully, odds are you were gonna get promoted .</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So you arrived in 1989 to…</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I was there through—through 1980—from ’89 through ’93.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And what were your impressions of the base and/or the Orlando area when you arrived?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Oh, Orlando’s beautiful, compared to Norfolk [<em>laughs</em>]. The base had—was a mixture of buildings that were 60 years old and brand new. From—the base, of course, was originally an [U.S.] Army—was an [U.S.] Air For—Army Air Force base built back in World War II. And it had been—in the 1960s—supposed to be closed, but Lyndon [B.] Johnson did a deal with one of the, uh, Congress people here for Central Florida, in order to get the congressmen’s votes for the Civil Rights Act [of 1965]. Lyndon Johnson did a deal with him—said, “Well, we’ll keep the base open instead of closing it so you have jobs.” And they transferred it over to the Navy. The Navy—you might note that we do live in Florida, and that Orlando is damn near as far from the water as you can get. So that might seem an odd place for a Navy base [<em>laughs</em>]. But any rate, that’s why it was there. But it was a beautiful base, and the city of Orlando of course was growing at that time. Lots of great building going on, lots of energy, sunshine. All things you might expect.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So while you were at RTC, what were your responsibilities? Your day in and day out responsibilities.</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>] I was what is known as a “recruit company commander.” Many people recognize that from what they are in the other services called “drill sergeants.” But the Navy being different, we’re recruit company commanders. It was our job to supervise folks who were brand new to the military experience—Navy, in particular—from the time they arrived on a bus until they had met certain standards and were prepared to go on to their first set of actual technical schools. We trained them in how to wear uniforms, appropriate sense of discipline, how to recognize military rank, appropriate forms of behavior.</p>
<p>The, uh—the recruit training experience is something that’s been around since Roman times. It is designed to take someone who is a civilian, with civilian values, regardless of where they come from, and first break down their identity as a civilian, for who they were in the first place, and then build them back up with a new identity—sense of recognition as a member of that military group. So that is what—that’s what we did over the course of eight weeks. We spent a couple of weeks being very nit-picky about any—any deviation from standards, by the quarter inch. Sometimes sixteenth of an inch. Once you did that—that normally took about two weeks—and from that point on, you would spend your time having them involved in basic classes—classroom activities—and then participation in group activities in order to build up that identity.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And how did the recruits—obviously, they may have all been different—but how did the recruits seem to act to the environment, to the training, to the region, did they come in raw and left as…</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Left as sailors, which is what they were. It’s such a wide range. It is. But when you say how they reacted when they came in, that’s kind of the point. The point is you do have a wide range of individuals, and the point is to put them out in the end of that eight-week training as similarly as possible. So they all met certain standards. So we really didn’t care how they felt when they got there. We already knew that the system was designed to be uncomfortable for them. It was designed to be challenging.</p>
<p>An example is routinely you would—their first day of arrival, regardless, they would be scheduled to come in somewhere between ten o’clock at night and four o’clock in the morning. They would be herded into a—basically a dormitory room with bunk beds, regardless of what time they got there. With their stuff, whatever they carried on which was minimal, and their clothing. At 04:00—or four o’clock in the morning—myself and another person would come in and wake them up. It was not unusual for us to wake them up by banging metal trashcans, or using an air horn, or both. The idea was—thinking of it as shock and awe, because they would lead, for the next couple of weeks, 18-hour days, in order to—as part of that process to change their value system.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now did you guys—now you as an instructor, and you can answer for the recruits if you know as well, did you guys have normal off-base activities? Downtime? Anything that you guys liked to do?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>The recruits did not. During that eight-week training, uh—let me rephrase that. During the eight-week training period, the recruits would normally go through six weeks basically [<em>coughs</em>]—six weeks of training of varying intensities. Initially, extremely intense, a little less so, and more cerebral[?] as it went along, more detailed-oriented.</p>
<p>By the end of six weeks—normally somewhere—the sixth or seventh weekend, they were there. they would be escorted by company commanders like me to some type of off-base activity. Go to SeaWorld, or something else along that line. The following week they’d be allowed to go without escorts. Like that weekend when they graduated, which was either—normally the end of their seventh week. When they graduated they would have that evening to go out and do whatever they were—then they would come back they would have two or three more days before they actually left the base and went onto their next command. Depends on the schedule, on the way it fell apart.</p>
<p>So by and large, the company commanders—no. We, the company commanders, were horribly mistreated [<em>laughs</em>]. I’m sorry, I’m just playing. It was a very challenging duty for a company commander, because in the shipboard Navy, normally you deploy for six months. You’re gone from home, family, all the rest of that, the boat’s gone. And you go for shorter deployments, depending on what type of command you were on. It was nothing for shipboard Navy to be gone, physically, nine months a year from your home and family. Very strenuous.</p>
<p>Well, when you came to a training command here, it was just as bad. Problem was it was even more intense, and worse your family is just down the street from wherever you lived. So when—when we say it was intense for the recruits, understand the company commanders did everything the recruits did, were with them that entire time. Plus an hour before and an hour after. So it was not unusual for company commanders to have weeks where they averaged four hours sleep a night.</p>
<p>After—after three consecutive—the normal schedule was to train three companies, and then take a break from being a company commander to being an instructor in teaching classes, which was normal life. you actually had like weekends off. But for six months you were pretty burnt out [<em>laughs</em>]. The effect on company commanders being stationed there—the normal billeting there was a three-year duty. When you have orders to go there, you are expected to be there for three years. And the divorce rate there for married couples was an excess of 70 percent. It was just that strenuous, and demanding a duty. It was pretty intense. But for those people that survived it and did well, God bless them all.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>But you mentioned classes that recruits went to. What were some of the classes that they take?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Recruits would go through classes—everything from an introduction to naval history. Teaching them about John Paul Jones— it was a very much—very light overview, very light, of the years the Mili[tary], the years the Navy got started, some of the high points, and very early naval history, etc. That type of thing. They would also go through courses—classes on basic hygiene, behavioral sense. I would call it “social and ethical education”, as in teaching what the standards were. We had class everything to naval history to rape awareness, all of which were taught be certified instructors like myself. So everything from how to wear your clothes properly, to the language of the Navy—as in, for example, what a “bulkhead” is. It’s a wall, by the way, if you didn’t know. All floors are decks. ceilings are overheads. There’s a shipboard terminology the Navy uses that no one else does. So you had to learn that. You also had to learn neat stuff like “bits,” “bites” as they applied to the Navy. They have nothing to do with high-tech, they have a whole lot to do with ropes [<em>laughs</em>]. So these are all things that—there’s a wide range of topics. Largely related to how to behave in a shipboard environment.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now did you instruct male and female recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Oh, yes. I did [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So—so what was that experience like for the recruits? For the officers?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>For the—let me start with for the recruits, because I got a lot of feedback from them. This was a unique time in the Navy’s history—my particular time era—because of the fact that, while Recruit Training Center of Orlando had always—as long as the Navy had been accepting women—had been the training center for women enlisted recruits. In the late ‘80s-early ‘90s, the Navy as a policy made the commitment to do training of both sexes together in the same room. No separation. this-and-that and the other things. The Navy was very, very concerned, from a policy matter, that they—there would be problems involving throwing a lot of young people together in a stressed environment, where they might be encouraged to look for some release from that stress. What a stunning idea [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>So in the Navy’s infinite wisdom, they made it the responsibility of the trainers and stuff to emphasize to these young men and young women every day that having sex was not a good thing. So you might want to imagine telling a drunk, “Don’t think about pink elephants.” So yes. It became challenging in that respect, and young women and young men, being what young women and young men are, there were some rather creative attempts to get around the rules there. Not a big deal. In the big scheme of things, it’s hardly—but it was more amusing than anything else. The point was that it added a note to the training environment that didn’t exist elsewise in the Navy.</p>
<p>And it also led to some major changes in the way recruits were actually trained. The history of training recruits is—regardless of branch of service, again—is very much tied into the process of breaking down the individualized identity in the first place, and rebuilding them. Anyone who has ever watched the movies knows that there’s a certain amount of blunt language that is used, and historically has been used. Well, the United States Navy, as training command, decided that that type of language was no longer to be used.</p>
<p>So within an environment where you have certain expectations by many of the recruits— come in expecting that this is going to be the toughest thing they ever did. some of them were a little disappointed. Probably a minority, but nonetheless you had folks who were very highly motivated to be there looking for the challenge of a lifetime. Those are a lot of recruits who came to the military simply because they were looking for direction. That was their number one reason for entering. It wasn’t because of job. it was because they wanted a sense of who they were within a larger community. I cannot count the number of kids—and I’ll say “kids,” because I was in my mid-30s and most of them were in their teens—who came to me after, upon completion of training or during it, and expressed their pride about being part of the organization, knowing what they were doing, having goals that were clear to them at that time. So by and large, for the vast majority of recruits coming through, boot camp—RTC Orlando—was a very positive experience. I think most of them—I never met one who afterwards[sic]—many of the kids I trained here, even 20 years later, are in touch with me via Facebook or something else, who haven’t expressed what a positive impact the experience had on their lives.</p>
<p>Funniest thing I ever—I actually had probably over the course of my three and a half years, 13 companies that I’ve pushed, which was pretty much the record. More than once, at the end of the training cycle for the kids, the eight-week period, when they approach their graduation, the night before their actual graduation ceremony, their parents and families would come to visit. And more than once, I’d have some young man come introduce me to his single mother. And then come to me afterwards and say, “I wish I had a dad like you.” Which was a little scary when you think about all the horrible things I said to that boy [<em>laughs</em>] not two months before that.</p>
<p>But that gives you an idea of how many of them looked at the experience—was something to go through. It was finite. They did it. They knew they were changed. For us, as the trainers, the vast majority of us were already set in our career goals. We already knew where we were headed, so it was a job to be done. Most of us took a great deal of pride in the job. Sometimes it was challenging. By and large, I can say this from my own experience. and I stay in touch with five or six folks from those times. Everyone shares relatively similar experiences. Both the joys and the frustrations. So, uh, it’s a job.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>There’s[sic] two features of the base we just want to kind of get your feedback on, and then you can let us know how they relate either to the base or to what you did. So that would be the <em>Blue Jacket</em>, USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>…</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And then the Grinder.</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] I almost forgot about that being called the “Grinder.” The USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> was, at the time I was there, pretty much an unused reminder—mainly because by 1989, it had been there for 30-odd years. It was broken down, unsafe. Never went on board it. Never took recruits on board it. Because it would have cost money to fix, and that’s not what money got put into. But it was a little bit of humor for all of us there, because the <em>Blue Jacket</em> was physically located at one end of the “Grinder.”</p>
<p>The “Grinder” was—I think was a huge patio space—cement, you name it. But it was located there. you could see it. And it was nothing to march around in, or run around in, as the case may be. And there were people from the base maintenance crews who had the job of keeping it painted, and all the rest of that. But other than that, it really did not have—while I was there, and subsequent, because the base closed two years after I left—three years after I left. It really was nothing more than an ornament. Before that, I understood they used to do some facsimile training onboard simply to say, “This is a boat.” “This is a rope.” “This is a gang-way.” “This is a flag or pennant.” [<em>laughs</em>] And that’s fine. You need those things, but it was not used for that in my time.</p>
<p>Now the “Grinder”, on the other hand—one of the primary tools of training for all the boot camps—for all the services boot camps—particularly here, is marching. Marching means that you get a group of people together, you teach them to march in step as one. Their arms and legs moving at the same, each—left arm, left leg. Everything moving at the same time, to a certain rhythm, dressed a certain way. And the “Grinder” was where you taught them to do that. And you yelled at them a lot. And, you know, you played loud music—loud marshal music, in a lot of cases. In other cases, you played some serious, four-beat, rock’n’roll, because it all has the same beat if you get them to march to it. The fun—I won’t say fun, because it certainly wasn’t for them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>After the first six hours, if you’re out in the middle of the sun, it’s far less entertaining than you might think. But this is Orlando. It gets hot here. Certain times of the year you’d be out on the “Grinder”—you’d had companies who were out on the “Grinder” every day, or at least in the evening, for two or three hours at a time. At other times of the year, when heat and humidity didn’t allow for it, because of heat stress factors, you had companies that never—did not spend a single day on the “Grinder,” simply because physical requirements were such. they weren’t allowed to. They may have gone through basic swim instruction at some point, where they had to cross the “Grinder” to get to the training facility, but other than that, they simply never saw it. Which made a challenge for company commanders like me who had to teach them how to march. “It’s where?” [<em>laughs</em>] “Oh, okay.”</p>
<p>So—but you would also use the “Grinder” as a—let’s call it a “training tool.” As in, the companies would be in their particular barracks, and as a company commander, perhaps you were dissatisfied for some reason with the level or performance, or moral, or whatever other particular instance. So you might send your people out the back door, out onto the “Grinder”, and have them run around the “Grinder,” uh, at sometimes two to three times, and then report back in. And woe unto to anyone who fell behind [<em>laughs</em>]. And so you could use those as disciplinary, but…</p>
<p><strong>Barnes</strong>So were there any other structures on the base that you remember vividly that you used a lot? or recruits may have remembered vividly, because they trained a lot?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Well, uh, classroom building, which I believe is still there. uh, but you had other than the cafeteria, uh, which of course was the primary spot for all of the recruits. Um, you had the firefighting command. You had what’s call WSMP, uh, which was—I hate to say water sports—water systems and physical training, which was the gymnasium and pool. Those are pretty much what the recruits saw for those eight weeks. They simply did not spend that much time unsupervised or as individuals. They just weren’t given it. Once they left that—that recruit training command portion of thing, there was a lot of the base to be seen, but they were not allowed to do that while they were recruits.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes <br /></strong>Now did you ever spend on NTC as a non-recruit commander?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And what did you do in that capacity?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I taught at nuclear power school.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I taught remedial mathematics. neat stuff like that. Kids who had, or for young men—it was always young men—who had signed up to go into nuclear power training. It was very high-end stuff for them. Some of them needed refreshers in their math in order to be able to handle the theoretical stuff in there, but that was just like being a classroom teacher anywhere. Normal 8-5 working hours. Monday through Friday.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now, at the time, was that the only nuclear training facility in the…</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>It was the initial.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>The initial?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>The training pipe. I’m going to use the word “pipeline,” which many people recognize—as in like, there are varying points along there. Uh, in the military in particular, there’s always ongoing training, regardless of what you’re in. Recruit training is simply the very beginning of the pipeline. From that point on, regardless whether you’re going to be a, uh—if you’re planning on just going out as an E-1 to a ship someplace—“Congratulations. You’re gone.”</p>
<p>You are a seaman apprentice or a seaman recruit is what a[sic] E-1 is. You are going to go through additional training, just to teach you what a boat is all about. That’s called “apprentice training,” and that was also at Naval Training Center. It was separate from recruit training. Uh, for more technical schools, then there was[sic] various pipelines.</p>
<p>For example, nuclear power, which was one of the most restricted—restrictive—qualifications. Um, for someone to get into it they had to—well, of course, they had to be a high school graduate, but on top of that, they had to have certain score on Navy-wide entrance tests when they came in. Um, certain behavioral records, etc. Uh, we used to go by what we called AFQT scores—Armed Forces Qualifying Test. They were scored on a 0 to 99 basis. You could not be accepted into nuclear power program, unless you scored above 90 on that test. Trust me. there were a lot of people that didn’t. I trained recruits that were as low as 13. You can imagine the level of literacy for those folks.</p>
<p>Um, so—but at any rate, you also had, uh, initial training for electronic weaponry. Uh, electronic—you had training for folks going into, uh, basic seamanship, like boatswain’s mates school. A variety of things took place on the Naval Training Center Command. These are all initial and secondary schools, prior to sending someone out as qualified in that particular field to, uh, command. And some of them might move on to a different training command. When you spoke about the Nuclear Power Training Command, it—about a two, at that time—it took roughly two and half years from the time someone came in, as a recruit, to the time they actually went to a command to be around—to a seagoing command that had a nuclear reactor on it. So some of the training is intense.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>And you were at the base at the infancy of the simulator training? Was that beginning to develop why you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Kid<br /></strong>Yes. It was. Uh, first off, all military training for years, has been—there’s simulation involved. You need to understand what simulation is, of course. Not all of it is high-tech electronic gizmo games. And that’s—you mentioned earlier the <em>Blue Jacket</em> was a stab at simulating seagoing environment. Um, many of the, uh—for example, I give the example of firefighting school as the single best example.</p>
<p>Oh, I almost forgot, because you earlier asked about one that the recruits would remember. They all remembered the tear gas chamber. All of them. And that’s another example of simulation, because, uh—well, for firefighting, of course, you would walk people through and train them in class about the basics of actual firefighting skills. Then you would walk them through donning the shipboard firefighting gear—boots, heavy jackets, facemask, oxygen breathing apparatus, this, that, and the other thing. Put them on fire hoses, put them into a building, and light controlled fires. Then have trained groups operate the hoses in order to work those. Firefighter is a major, major skill that is consistently trained onboard ships all the time. For the obvious reasons that you don’t call the fire department in the middle of the ocean. So [<em>laughs</em>] that’s kind of—so when you talk simulation, obviously there’s[sic] varying levels of simulation and varying degrees of realism. The more realistic you can make the—the training more effective it was. Does that answer that question for you?</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Yes. It does. Thank you. So when you left—you left in 1993?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Was that your final year in the Navy or did you have another assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Oh. No. From there I went out to Guam. I was attached originally to a ship that was getting ready to be decommissioned. Um, the refrigerator services ship that was being decommissioned. A ton of fun. The ship was already 40 years old and, if you can imagine driving a car that’s 40 years old, now [<em>laughs</em>] drive a ship that’s 40 years old. It’s got a few miles on it. But, uh, one of the problems with a ship that’s 40 years old is that it’s got a lot of things on there that were older than 40 years old, including asbestos and this, that, and the other thing, so which I was part and parcel of discovering. So subsequent to that, I thought it was time to stop being Navy, and the Navy agreed with me, but fortunately it hasn’t killed me yet.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Now did you return to this area immediately after leaving the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Or you just settled here?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Um, two years later, I returned here. I owned a home here I had bought. The fact of the matter is that Central Florida is a beautiful place in comparison to a lot of other places. Um, Orlando was a medium-sized city, uh, so it didn’t have quite the problems of the [Washington,] D.C. area or San Diego[, California], or some of the other places I lived at. Sun always shone and I had this odd thing about I was going to learn to play golf. That lasted about two days [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>I can help you with that, if you decide to change your mind</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So what were your initial thoughts when you heard that NTC Orlando was closing?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I wasn’t concerned about it at all. Um, largely because for me, my experiences in the Navy were pretty broad. Um, while many people—if you were career Navy and worked all the way through retirement, which would be 20 years, at least, uh, you were stationed at multiple commands. Lots of them. And that meant that things came and went—people you knew, people you were intense, great friends with for a short period of time. You lost track of shortly thereafter, simply because you were separated.</p>
<p>So, uh, loosing Naval Training Center Orlando, largely because it wasn’t on the ocean anywhere—it was just a set of buildings—really wasn’t a whole lot different than any other set of buildings any other place. And of course, the Navy did not get rid of recruit training. They simply consolidated it all up in Michigan—or Illinois, rather. So it was never about the location. It was all about the process.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>What do you think is the Navy’s legacy to the Central Florida region?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>A lot of folks are unaware that Central Florida is the location of the second largest group of retired military—military retirees—in the nation. It tends to concentrate a lot of people here. The fact that we had the Navy base here for so long is really a very vital part of that. Um, and those retirees have a very strong commitment to the values they were trained in, and they live and work with those every day. They bring that as part of the palate of colors that is here in Central Florida. Um, people who have a strong memory of learning about responsibility, decency, reliability, ethics, in general, and that shared commitment—those shared values. They live here and there’s a lot of them.</p>
<p>So the effect of that command, that physical base, and the people that worked there is something that will—that doesn’t only exist now, but it’s going to echo for quite a while. Um, that, uh, is something that the Orlando and Central Florida community should be very proud of and they should recognize that that contribution, while again, because we’re not located on the water, people don’t necessarily grasp. But for the number of retirees here, who came specially because—either returned because of that, or came because there was that presence here—the impact is really immeasurable.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>So as a former recruit commander, or as a former recruit, why do you think someone would want to come back? Or what do you think someone would like to see or be reminded of if they came and visited the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Being. First place, there’s[sic] several Lone Sailor monuments throughout the nation, and this is a great location for them. And in the public mind, uh, whether you’ve been in the service or not, uh, that image is rather striking. It implies a lot of things. For the people who served, the people who were Navy and went through basic training—regardless of where they went, but specifically here in Orlando—it reminds them of a dramatic change in their lives where they took control of themselves and their destiny. They made that choice to say, “I don't want to do what I was doing. I’m going to be different.” And they learned a new value system. They learned to be part of a generations-old organization that had a history they could be proud of, and that they could carry with them and they could then share with their own friends, children, subsequent generation. It means a lot. It means a lot to a lot of people. and far more than just movies that no longer get watched [<em>laughs</em>]. The fact that we trained a lot of people—we sent a lot of people out to represent and defend the nation—some did not come back—needs to be remembered. We need to be reminded of why that happened. What those values where. And why they’re still important.</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Very good. Is there anything I missed that you think would be relevant either to the project or to your story?</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>I appreciate that y’all took time to ask me the questions. No. I think we pretty much covered everything we'll do on camera.</p>
<p><strong>All<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Barnes<br /></strong>Well, very good. We appreciate your time.</p>
<p><strong>Kidd<br /></strong>Not a problem.</p>
AFQT
AFS-3
apprentice training
Armed Forces Qualifying Test
boiler technician
boiler technicians
boot camp
boot camps
Civil Rights Act
Community Veterans History Project
Congress
CVHP
E-1
E-6
E-7
E-9
Enlisted Rank 1
Enlisted Rank 6
Enlisted Rank 7
Enlisted Rank 9
Facebook
Grinder
Guam Naval Base
John Paul
Johnson, Lyndon B.
Jones, John Paul
Kidd, Scott T.
Lone Sailor Memorial Committee
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LPD-15
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Maldonado, Fernando
Naval Station Great Lakes
Naval Training Center Command
Naval Training Center Orlando
Navy Memorial of Central Florida
NS Great Lakes
NTC Orlando
nuclear power
Nuclear Power Training Command
orlando
recessions
recruit commanders
recruit company commanders
Recruit Training Command Orlando
Richland, Washington
RTC Orlando
tear gas chambers
U. S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Air Force
U.S. Navy
USS Blue Jacket
USS Iowa
USS Niagara Falls
USS Ponce
veterans
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/99eff77796a2f91e66da0285df0093db.pdf
0385c0863af79dd1bad2c827d1d62e16
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Hazen, Kendra
Interviewee
Clark, Jeffrey Edward
Location
Central Florida Research Par, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 digital audio/video recording
Duration
50 minutes and 25 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
4661kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Henry Carl Okraski
Alternative Title
Oral History, Okraski
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Link Aviation Devices, Inc.
Simulation
Description
An oral history of Henry Carl Okraski, former Deputy Director of the Naval Air Warfare Training Systems (NAWCTSD) in Orlando, Florida. The interview was conducted by Kendra Hazen at Research Park in Orlando, Florida. This oral history was produced as part of the Community Veterans History Project (CVHP) and the Lone Sailor Memorial Committee for the purpose conducting background research for a memorial honoring the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />Okraski was involved with the defense simulation industry from 1962 to 1994, which included stints as the director of Research and Engineering and the Deputy Technical Director for NAWCTSD. He obtained a Master's Degree in Engineering from the University of Florida.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:13 Biographical information<br />0:04:13 LINK Aviation<br />0:08:55 Naval Training Device Center in Long Island, New York<br />0:12:15 Migrating to Central Florida<br />0:13:35 How Naval Training Device Center came to Orlando<br />0:16:06 Admiral Luiz De Florez<br />0:17:50 Maintenance Engineering Division<br />0:27:45 Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD)<br />0:29:14 Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement Systems (MILES) project<br />0:30:32 Various simulation projects conducted by NAWCTSD<br />0:35:59 Teaching deaf and hearing-impaired children<br />0:39:27 Challenges faced by simulation projects<br />0:42:47 Future of the simulation industry in Central Florida<br />0:46:25 How NAWCTSD has changed Orlando<br />0:49:09 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Henry Carl Okraski. Interview conducted by Kendra Hazen at Research Park in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
Okraski, Henry "Hank" Carl. Interviewed by Kendra Hazen. UCF Community Veterans History Project. March 7, 2014. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Community Veterans History Project (CVHP),</a> Library of Congress, http://www.loc.gov/vets/.
Coverage
Utica Free Academy, Utica, New York
Clarkson University, Potsdam, New York
Thule Air Base, Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Port Washington, Long Island, New York
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Maitland, Florida
Lake Nona Medical City, Lake Nona, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Hazen, Kendra
Okraski, Henry "Hank" Carl
Publisher
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries
Contributor
Hill, Amanda
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-07
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-07
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
1.68 GB
203 KB
Medium
50-minute and 25-second digital audio/video recording
21-page typed transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Kendra Hazen and Henry "Hank" Carl Okraski, and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>.
Rights Holder
All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/.
Accrual Method
Donation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Barnes, Mark
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawctsd/AboutUs/MissionHistoryFuture.cfm" target="_blank">History</a>." Naval Air Warfare Training Systems Division.. http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawctsd/AboutUs/MissionHistoryFuture.cfm.
"<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
Okraski, Henry Carl, and William F. Parrish. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2386511" target="_blank"><em>Acquisition Cost Estimating Using Simulation</em></a>. Orlando, Fla: Naval Training Equipment Center, Training Analysis and Evaluation Group, 1975.
Okraski, Henry Carl, and William F. Parrish. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2386511" target="_blank"><em>Acquisition Cost Estimating Using Simulation</em></a>. Orlando, Fla: Naval Training Equipment Center, Training Analysis and Evaluation Group, 1975.
Okraski, Henry Carl. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/13983261" target="_blank">Economic Analysis of Training Media</a>. Thesis (M. Eng.)--University of Florida, 1972.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://youtu.be/UieZoSoHiCE" target="_blank">Oral History of Henry Carl Okraski</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Today is March 7<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Henry "”Hank” [Carl] Okraski, who spent 32 years in government service, 10 of which were working in the Senior Executive Service. He was the Director of Research and Engineering and the Deputy Technical Director for Naval Air Warfare Training Systems Division, or NAWCTSD.</p>
<p>My name is Kendra Hazen and with me is Amanda Hill. We are interviewing Mr. Okraski as a part of the [UCF Community] Veterans History Project, and as research for the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording the interview at the National Center for Simulation Offices, located in the Partnership III building, um, in UCF’s [University of Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mr. Okraski, will you start us off by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yes. First off, Kendra, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to you today. You’re really representing a worthwhile cause, and I appreciate the opportunity. I was born in Utica, New York, in 1936—January 22<sup>nd</sup>, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen</strong>Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about what your parents did while you were growing up?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, they both worked actually. I was a latchkey child. I think one of the first. And they worked in a florist—a wholesale florist enterprise. My mother cut flowers. My father hauled coal and, uh, manure and all sorts of things like that to keep the, uh, flowers growing.</p>
<p>So I was pretty much on my own. I had, um, the run of the neighborhood, if you will. Actually, I wasn’t born on the “other” side of the tracks. I was born on the tracks, because the railroad cars went right down the street where I lived, right next to my bedroom.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>I’ll bet that was a little loud.</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>It was. At like two in the morning, they would be bumping the cars back and forth and, uh—and it was, uh—I got used to it after a while.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Did you grow up with brothers and sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski <br /></strong>No. I was the only child.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you tell us a little about your early education?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yes. I was, uh, trained by nuns. I attended the St. Patrick’s Grammar School for eight years, um, where I learned the value of discipline and, uh, how to pay attention in class. And I really experienced the nuns, um, caring for us. They wanted us to get ahead. I was really appreciative for that. So I went to St. Patrick’s School for eight years, and then I went to Utica Free Academy, which is the local high school in Utica, for four years. Graduated from there in 1953. I worked a year thereafter and then when on to Clarkson University which is in Upstate New York—in Potsdam, New York.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, and during that time, did you have any members of your family who were in any of the [U.S.] Armed Services?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>I had uncles. Several of my uncles were in, uh, in the service. Um, one of my uncles, uh, John—he was at Guadalcanal[, Solomon Islands]. He was in the 1<sup>st</sup> Marine Corps Division. earned three Purple Hearts while he was there. He’s still alive. I communicate with him just about every week.</p>
<p class="Default">And I had other uncles that were there in the South Pacific and in Europe. Um, some—one was in Normandy[, France]—[the] Normandy invasion. So yes. I’ve come from a family—now, my father was not in the Armed Services. He was working on a farm under the agriculture deferment in those days.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, what branches were they in? or were they all in the same branch?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>No. I had one in the [U.S.] Army, one in the [U.S.] Navy and one in the [U.S.] Marine Corps. And I also had another one in the Navy too, who was a deep sea diver. Yeah. with the original bubble heads where they wore the large thing. And, uh, he would repair ships, uh, in Newfoundland[, Canada]. Rather cold, you might say.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, whatever you were going through Clarkson University, what was your specialty? What was your area of specialty?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>I majored in Electrical Engineering and I graduated with a Bachelor’s [Degree] in Electrical Engineering.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And then from there, what was your first professional experience?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski <br /></strong>Yes. Uh, I was recruited from college to LINK Aviation [Devices, Inc.]. LINK Aviation was located in Binghamton, New York, and they were manufacturers of simulators—primarily flight simulators, at the time. and I always had somewhat of an interest in flight simulators. I might relate to you the first simulator that I ever had?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Okay. Um, I was 11 years old and I would spend summers on a farm. and all we had was radio for entertainment. There was no television, or we didn’t have any movies or anything close by. So radio was the big thing. Every day, I would listen to <em>Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy</em>. And they had one offering there that if you send, uh—I think it was 15 cents and a box top from Wheaties—they would send you a simulator. So I got the money. I got the Wheaties and I put it together and send it off. And I waited and waited. Every time the rural post delivery man would come by he’d say, “No, sonny. not today.” And nuts. I’d go back. Every day I’d wait for him. Finally, it came and I opened it up and it was a cardboard instrument panel that replicated an aircraft cockpit. It had a control stick. It had a throttle and it had two rudder pedals simulating the aircraft.</p>
<p class="Default">So what we did—all of us youngsters, you know, part of the, uh, Jack Armstrong squadron—we would sit on our chairs and set up our cockpits and then listen to the radio. And he would say, “Today we’re going to be flying over the jungles of South America. Look down. You can see the river.” I would look down and I could see that river. You know, because in those days, we said radio was the theatre of the mind. And it really was. We used our imaginations and we could visualize things that weren’t even there. So that was my first simulator. That wetted my appetite. So, then when LINK Aviation recruited me, I was very happy, because I would be working with simulators again.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>What exactly were your responsibilities when you were at LINK Aviator?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, with LINK, they started us out in, uh, Field Service Organization. So I attended a short course learning how to maintain and operate one of their flight simulators. They called it a “C11” or “Device 2F-2”3 in those days. And it was a basic one seater flight instrument trainer that was used in primary, uh, flight training for the Air Force in my case. And where pilots would learn how to fly instruments. how to do instrument landing. Uh, also how to react to various failures that might occur in the aircraft. So I would help the pilots learn how to go through emergency procedures to save themselves and to save the aircraft. So that was my first job. It entailed traveling throughout the, uh, Southwest, and that was in Oklahoma and Texas—uh, in that area where there are several Air Force bases. And I had an opportunity to visit and work with the various pilots or wannabe pilots in those days. So, that was my first job, Kendra.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How long were you there? How long were you with LINK Aviation?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, I was with LINK Aviation for about four and a half years. Um, what happened was I did a short stint in the Army. I had to go through basic training, um, but I essentially went back to the inactive reserves.<a title="">[1]</a></p>
<p class="Default">And then LINK transferred me to a number of places, but the most memorable one, I guess, was to Thule [Air Base], Greenland where I spent six months one night. It was dark for the entire period and I was working then on the F-102 aircraft simulator. And so I would help train a pilot, set up all the simulations and train the pilots, um, to do air to air combat maneuvering and air to air intercepts. And it was very, very important, because it was co-located with the ballistic missile early warning site located there at Thule, Greenland, whose antenna was essentially affixed at the Soviet Union at that time, ‘cause we were under, you know, Cold War conditions. So having our pilots trained was very important in the event that anything should happen and they had to scramble. They were in a position to, uh, perform as they were trained.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Do you remember what year that was, when you..?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Around 1960.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, and then after your four and a half years with LINK, where did you go next?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah. I—I traveled a little bit more with LINK, and I took a job with the Naval Training Device Center, which was located in Port Washington, Long Island[, New York]. And that’s where I took a position as, um, a GS-11 electrical engineer working in the field support of Naval Aviation simulators. It was in a facility that was called a [Gould-]Guggenheim Estate at one time. It was a castle. Actually, it was a castle that was created that was by the Guggenheims and the Gould family years before. So it was quite a thrill to come to work and go into the castle. And, um, it was on an estate that overlooked Long Island Sound and several, several acres. It was beautiful. And our next door neighbor, who—Kendra, you may not recall—was somebody called Perry Como, the singer. So he lived next door—very casual individual and, uh, we would wave as we went on to work in our castle.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>A castle. Um, what kinds of things were the projects that were being worked on? In addition to what you did, what are some of the different projects that were being worked on there?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>It was an interesting time, because originally the Naval Training Device Center, which began as the Special Devices Task by Admiral [Luiz] de Florez in 1941, um, expanded its mission to include more than just aviation training. In the beginning, he focused on flight simulators—in the LINK trainer actually grew out of some of the initiatives that were going on there and, uh, Luiz de Florez took the LINK trainer and, uh, modified it for gunnery training. Uh, and other applications that went beyond aviation. They began to get into surface Navy, land warfare, undersea warfare, simulators for all those kinds of things. But the primary thrust was in aviation. So aircrafts such as the P2V [Physical-to Virtual] —oh gosh—the F-3, the A-7, the A-3 intruder. Um, all those aircraft had simulators that were built and being delivered and used by the pilots’ aircrew, uh, to train out in the field.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>How long were you there in Long Island with them?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah. I was there until 1965. 1965. Well, let me back up about six months from there. Earlier, I had bought a house. My wife and I had bought a house out in North Port[, New York], and it was a really, really nice house. It was about all we could afford too. But it was near the water. It was a beautiful place.</p>
<p class="Default">Six months later the commanding officer gets on the loud speaker and said, “Ladies and gentlemen, you’re next home will be in Orlando, Florida.” I said, “What? Next home? I already have a home.” But nevertheless, uh, we did move to Orlando, Florida. It was probably the best thing that ever happened to us at the time. We were—it was the beginning of a tremendous growth of simulation and a wonderful career opportunity for me and my friends and co-workers that moved here. And also a wonderful environment for my family to live and grow.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen <br /></strong>Did you know anything about the area before you got down here?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>No, but they allowed us two visits and at that time in 1965. In 1965, uh, Orlando was a sleepy little town in the orange groves. Uh, we had Gatorland, I think, and, uh, Cypress Gardens.</p>
<p class="Default">There was no [Walt] Disney [World]. There was no SeaWorld, Universal [Orlando Resort], etc., etc. It was a sleepy little town. And it was very enjoyable to go out on Sundays and look at homes for sale and, um, take in some of the natural beauties. Some of the—like the Wekiva Springs, uh, which was—was open—open to the public. And there were other springs. Silver Springs [State Park], etc., etc. And the beaches were so close, so it was very, very nice. Very, uh, unspoiled you might say.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And when you moved down, um, was it called? It was called the National Center for Simulation yet?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>No. That’s a whole other outgrowth. Yeah. The Naval Training Device Center changed its name about two or three times.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>To where it is today—Naval Air Warfare System—Naval Air Warfare Systems Training System Division. Uh, so we went through an evolution.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>So when you moved down, what was it?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski <br /></strong>It was still the Naval Training Device Center.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski <br /></strong>At that time.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And what resources was here for them?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Nothing.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Nothing?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, the only thing that was here—and this is kind of amusing. You wonder how these things happen. These relocations cause we’re always faced with things like BRAC [Base Realignment and Closure] and justifying movements and what have you. But the truth to be known, a lot of these decisions are totally politically based and what happened was an Air Force activity moved out of the Air Force base here in Orlando. Not McCoy [Air Force Base], but where Baldwin Park is today. Okay. there was an Air Force Reconnaissance Squadron located there. They were relocated and I think part of it was even disestablished. So there was a need to fill the vacuum.</p>
<p>Well, the powers to be—the political powers to be—got together and decided that this little activity up in Port Washington, Long Island, would feel much better if they were located in Florida. So they moved us to Orlando beginning in, uh, 1965. The, uh—many of the buildings were old barracks. Um, they were not air-conditioned. Um, we lived in that kind of a situation where—this was before computers, where you did your own memos and that. So we would draft memos in pen and ink and your sweat would drip on the paper and run as you’re trying to write the memos to, ah, your—your—for business purposes. So it was rather a primitive existence. Although once the Navy got there, they began to refurbish the buildings and we got air conditioning, which worked most of the time. So that made us a lot more comfortable.</p>
<p>But an interesting thing about Orlando too, uh, from a historical stand point, um, when the, um, Normandy invasion was being planned, General [Dwight D.] Eisenhower came to Orlando and actually mocked up the Normandy Beach in one of the orange groves. In other words, he created an—an, uh—an emulation, if you will, of the Normandy Beach head, and he would position ships and whatever on this false floor that essentially was cement looking like the Normandy Beach head. and he would, with his generals, plan their attack moving objects around and developing strategies that they would follow. So that was in Orlando long before the Navy or anybody else got down here to talk about simulation. Can I give you one more historical event?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Certainly, yeah.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>I think it was—the year was 1935 or so. I’d have to verify that, but Luiz De Florez, for whom the building is named out here—the Navy building is the De Florez complex—the Luiz De Florez building. Okay. And as I mentioned earlier, he got simulation off the ground particularly for the Navy beginning in Washington, D.C., but before that, uh, he was involved in the in oil—in oil production. the crack and process and all that. Well, he was honored for his accomplishments—he was a civilian though at that time—uh, by a number of people. one of which was Rollins College here in Winter Park. So he was given an honorary Doctorate degree from Rollins College the same year that Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings, who as you well know, is the author of <em>The Yearling</em>, and <em>Cross Creek</em>, and a few other wonderful novels. So that brought simulation down here again back in the [19]30s. If you believe in pre-destiny or something, you begin to wonder if there isn’t some connection. So, those are a couple other historical points relating to the Orlando area having to do with simulation.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And kind of the birth of the idea of it being here.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yes. Yeah.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Um, you talked a little bit about what was here when you got here, and the buildings. Can you tell us a little bit about those early days? What were kind of your primary responsibilities when you first got down here? What were some of the main projects that were being worked on?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Sure. Um, I, uh—when I came down, I was assigned to the Maintenance Engineering Division. It doesn’t have to do with changing light bulbs or anything like that. What we actually had to do was plan for the logistic support of the simulators, because it was very critical to keep the simulators operating when they’re being used by our pilots, aircrew, and other ships crew, etc. So we had to make sure that they were reliable, maintainable, and we provided an adequate logistic support package to go with each and every simulator that went out the door. And our industry was pretty much, uh, on board when they came to designing in reliability, maintainability, and providing a good logistic support package.</p>
<p>So one of my jobs was to develop the criteria for logistic support and I wrote a document called “Bulletin 40-1,” which identified all the logistic support requirements for simulators that stayed in use for probably 20 years or so that people may even use parts of it today. It was important to do that.</p>
<p>Now, in the process of moving down here, a number of people didn’t want to leave Long Island. They were particularly—they were really happy just to stay there. And I, in turn—I was offered a job at the Space program at the time too. But I elected to come to Florida and stay with our parent organization anyway. So when a number of people didn’t come, it left some room at the top. So that gave me some nice promotion opportunities that I took advantage of and so going, you know, then from a division head to a department head to associate director, etc. I think the move down here kind of enabled that progression quite nicely.</p>
<p>So what I did is—I had a division and we worked very closely with the engineers in designing our systems such that they were maintainable and supportable. And we—the program began to grow quite a bit. Word got around that, “Hey, this simulation stuff must be pretty good. It must be saving a lot of lives and it’s not costing as much as putting airplanes in the air or ships at sea or submarines under the sea.” So the Army—well, they had joined us earlier with what was called the “Army Participation Group,” and, uh, the simulation caught on with them and they began to grow very large. Then the Marine Corps—they came on board. Then the Air Force came on board. So what was just a single entity down here in the Navy became pretty much a joint operation. Joint with a small “j” not a large “J,” ‘cause we’re not really a “joint” organization. We’re, uh—we operate jointly though. And it was amazing of the synergy that was achieved by working together. You know, an engineer working on a tank simulator working alongside an engineer working on an air craft simulator could share technology and experiences and know-how, such that the customers were getting more for their money essentially than if an individual service were doing a procurement of a simulator. And that continues today. Maybe even more so today, because of the large number, the large acquisition program we have here, um, at the, uh, what we call now “Team Orlando.”</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>After it was called the Naval Training Device Center here? What was then the next step?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, it was renamed Naval Training Systems Center, Naval Training Materials Center, uh, and Naval Training Systems Center, and then it went to, um, Naval Air Warfare Center. The reason for that is that, uh, we changed responsibilities on—we changed, uh, the organization that we reported to over the years. In the beginning, you know, it was like the Bureau of Aeronautics, and then it was Chief [of] Naval Research, and then it went to Chief [of] Naval Materials ,and then to the Naval Air Systems Command—so away and back again. So every time it moved, people felt, “Well, we gotta change the name of that.” So that happened, you know, over several years. so the stationary was taking a hitting. You know, in changing our names and who we reported to over the years, but it appears now that we have a very stable organization under the Naval Air Systems Command and our organization continues to grow down here and they’re doing wonderful things. Saving time, lives, and money every day. See, that’s the beauty of really working with an organization like this, because when you go home at night you realize that you touched the lives of every solider, sailor, Marine, and Coast Guard. You know, and through the efforts of what you’re doing here. You can’t beat that for job satisfaction.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Can you give us some specific examples of simulations that happen? Like what does it look like? How does that work? What kinds of things do you have to do on the front end to make it possible?</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Uh, yes. Um, you know [<em>laughs</em>], I’m not gonna do this. You know, it’s all in here. That was commercial.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>No. I actually—kidding aside—it all begins with the requirements. It all begins with the requirements from the, um, the parent system. Like if it’s an aircraft that you want to build a simulator for, uh, you examine the aircraft. you examine the tasks that have to be conducted by the air crew. And given those tasks, then you can select the media—what media is best to teach. Train those particular tasks. There are some that deal with, like, decision making. Others are procedural and each and every media kinda has their own strength, you know, with which each of the tasks that have been identified.</p>
<p>So normally it goes through some form of task analysis of the operational system and then from there you come up with the media. Uh, you identify the behavioral objectives, come up with the media, and then go about writing the specifications and statements of work for the training system that you intend to have procured or built. So our engineers spend a lot of time writing specification statements of work delineating exactly what the simulator has to look like.</p>
<p>Let’s take for example: what would a flight simulator consist of? Okay. First of all, you’ve got the—the enclosure where the pilot would sit. So you’ve got to make sure all the instruments—all the nobs, and controls, whatever—operate just like the real airplane. So you have to make some decisions how you gonna design that and becomes a systems engineering process to do that. So you design that enclosure with the proper configurations. Then you decide, <em>Well, am I gonna have a visual display?</em> So that the pilot can look out the windscreen and see the real world. If so, there are several choices you have as to what kind of visual system you would put on this. So let’s say you narrow it down to the visual system—maybe it’s a widescreen. The pilot looks out, can look 180 degrees perhaps, and see even through the periphery what’s happening in the real world. And this—the intent is to have it move and behave just like it would if you were flying the aircraft.</p>
<p>Okay. what else do we need? Well, we need some computers to make this thing work. So you get a computing system. You go through that whole exercise again. What’s the proper size, speed, etc. for the computer? Then you say, “Well, should we have motion or not? Should we tilt and move this pilot?” We go through that same process to come up with the motion system. Then you have things we call like “control loading,” and then like when the pilot moves the control stick. Does it feel right? Does it feel like the airplane? Is it, uh, hydraulic, or is it force-fed or whatever—make these kinds of decisions depending on what your requirements are.</p>
<p>So what you do is you take all these components and you integrate them together and you come up with a training system that replicates the function, um—the functions and usually the configuration of the system that you’re trying to simulate. I mean, a true testimony to how well we’ve done our job is when a pilot comes out of a simulator and he or she is draped with sweat and they say, “That was god-awful.” And then you know you’ve achieved some realness, because what we’re looking for here. And, uh, I think the amusement people say it very nicely—is we’re suspending disbelief for a little while. Because you know you’re in a simulator, but if you get all engrossed in the task at hand. You can forget that it’s a simulator—you begin to think that it’s real. And that’s what we want, because then you can train people effectively. You can make decisions under stress even though you’ve created the stress artificially. So that’s kinda how you put it—that’s what a flight simulator would look like. Then you have all sorts of other simulators, uh, besides just aviation, submarines, you might want to teach people how to control a submarine. You know, the driving aspects of it or the weapons system piece, fire control, etc., all those have to be integrated into the overall system. There are full-up systems, there are part-task trainers, entire families of training devices. I’m giving you a crash course here in a very short period of time.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That’s perfect.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That’s exactly what I was hoping for. Um, I think you touched a little bit on this next question just through some of those examples that you said but what is the mission—the mission statement of NAWCTSD?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, see, I’ve been out of there now for a while, because I retired in 1994. Um, but the mission is—and I can just sort of paraphrase—I believe it is to be the principle agent for the acquisition research and logistic support of—of training simulators for the, uh—the Navy and the other services as a side. Something to that effect. But it is—they are the principle activity within the Navy for procuring simulators.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And, um, can you tell me a little bit about your time at NAWCTSD? What were some of, uh, your major projects?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And what happened on your watch when you were here?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah., I’d love to, ‘cause we, uh, you know—we have a road of accomplishment, I think, over those years while I was here that I’m quite proud of the people that were able to make some real breakthroughs in technology and satisfy the war fighter and the warrior in a way, in a manner, that hadn’t been done before.</p>
<p class="Default">I’ll give ya one example: Um, the MILES system, which is the Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System, was essentially developed in our laboratory at NAWCTSD by a team. The team was headed by a gentleman by the name of Al Marshall. Al Marshall had a better idea on how to teach weapon—team—weapons team engagement and that was the use of lasers. Um, eye safe and totally safe lasers, as opposed to using live ammunition out in the field. So he came up with the whole concept of outfitting soldiers with the laser detectors and this was really the first laser tag, if you will, but it was for the military. He was a Navy engineer doing some work for the Army and the Marine Corps went and bought the MILES system also. So it was a tri-service initiative kicked off by one little team, if you will, working in the, uh, in our laboratory under the Office of Naval Research, uh, task.</p>
<p class="Default">Some other things that we did, uh, other than the just the technology growth and the improvement in the fidelity of simulation. You know, visual systems have gotten to be really, really good when it comes to realism, uh, as is motion for that matter. Now, while I was there too, we toyed with the idea of developing deployable trainers. You know, we felt, “Gee, why do we always have to bring people into the school house, put them in a simulator, and then they get deployed out to sea?” And by the time they come back, some of the skills have already perished. I mean, they’re perishable skills to some degree. Why not put the trainers out there where they are?</p>
<p class="Default">So along came the whole idea of deployable simulators and mission rehearsal simulators that could be deployed, put on board aircraft carriers and other installations that are closer to the squadrons and the people that actually use them. So, uh, the deployable simulators, I thought, was a really neat technology that was like the next—next energy level above what we had been doing in the past. And—and the same is true in so many other areas too, where a level of realism has increased, uh, tremendously too.</p>
<p class="Default">For example—his happened after my watch—so the, um, battle stations 21—the simulator up at Great Lakes where they brought together the entertainment world along with the simulation—military simulation world—and they built a training device for recruits—Navy recruits— that essentially forms the part of their graduation. Their last day. It’s sort of like a hell week, but only compressed into one day, where they’re able to simulate fires on board ship, casualties, injured people, leaks in the bulkhead—all simulated—but like with real water and what looks to be like flames. Again, borrowing on the Disney magic and any other theme parks that are here. And it became so—it’s so realistic, in fact, that it’s hard to replicate what they’ve done up there.</p>
<p class="Default">Another, uh, thing that we did, way back when—or “back in the day,” as they say today—was pier-side training along the same notion of, you know, why bring people in to a classroom, or why go to sea and train all the time, uh, because that that can be expensive. We came up with the pier-side trainers which essentially are, um—well, they’re trailer-based simulations. More like stimulators than simulators. But anyway, we take these trailers, and we plug them into a ship that’s tied up pier-side, and through cables and running alongside and into the ship. we’re able to generate signals, put them into the ship, so that the people that are at their operating stations see everything as though they’re out at sea. We can create targets in that trailer. You know, create targets and threats and then the people in their battle station. or in their normal working stations, they can look at their radars, their sonars, their fire control, and they see targets like they’re at sea and they give commands and they run through the exercise as though they are out at sea. So that was a family of pier-side trainers that started to be quite successful.</p>
<p class="Default">And then the next step was imbedded training where we were able to imbed some training features into the actual parent system, whether it be an aircraft or a ship. I know one particular radar, for example, that when they go out at sea they can generate targets and practice radar movements simulating those targets that are out there. There are no targets in the water, but they—the ship’s crew—think that there is, because we can generate those and they look at their scopes, the water, and they see actual targets that aren’t real. So, you know, tech, and…</p>
<p class="Default">This this happened outside of my experience at NAWCTSD, but it began at NAWCTSD, and that’s the whole notion of using virtual reality for training. Um, one of the things that Dr. Hayes—Dr. Bob Hayes—had a project with his team called “V Sub,” to where they simulated the gentlemen in the submarine at the conning tower that was steering a submarine through a canal or channel, say. And they did that through virtual reality. They would put the head-mounted display on the individual and that individual would see the banks of the canal, would see other ships, beacons, markers. and then through a headset communicate with what would’ve been the people steering the submarine when in actuality it was a voice recognition system that was taking action based on the commands being given by the individual. So—and that was a very, very neat, neat program.</p>
<p class="Default">And later on, after I retired and I—I worked, uh, with a company General Dynamics—actually Veridian, at the time. Um, I was like a support contractor to them—came up with this notion of maybe we can do something for deaf and hearing-impaired kids using that same technology. At that time Congressman [Ira William “Bill”] McCollum[, Jr.] was very active and interested in what we’re doing, and he was able to get some support money for us to build a virtual reality system for Lake Sybelia Elementary School up in Maitland. There they have a high percentage of deaf and hearing-impaired children, and what initiated this was the principal coming to one of our NCS [National Center for Simulation] meetings.</p>
<p class="Default">At the time, I believe I was chairman of the board at NCS and we got all through with our meeting and it was an open meeting. He said, “Yes, sir. I’m, um, a principal of Lake Sybelia Elementary School. What can you do to help us?” “What’s your problem, sir?” He says, “Here’s my problem. We have a large group of deaf and hearing-impaired kids and our teachers spend most of their time with living skills—teaching them how to do very simple things. They don’t have time to get into reading and arithmetic and things they’re supposed to be learning. What can you do to help us?”</p>
<p class="Default">So we moved out and we got all the support we could. We put together a team. We got some money and we did build a virtual reality system. and the kids loved it, because they would get immersed in the system. And we simulated, for example, the question of how to cross the street safely. So we would simulate trucks going by, so they could see them and we even had the odor of diesel so they knew it was a truck and a little bit of rumble, because we fixed the seat so it would vibrate. And, uh, so they learned to go to the cross-walk and go through the green light and whatever. We had stranger danger, danger stranger with an intruder coming in the classroom—in the classroom—on the school grounds. and, uh, we taught them what to do if they saw a stranger that didn’t look good. We taught them how to, uh, go to and order in a fast food restaurant.</p>
<p class="Default">Many times these kids—they’re not looking for recognition. They’re not looking for attention. so if they order the wrong thing usually they’ll just take it and eat it—whatever it is—or if they get the wrong change back, they’re not gonna make a thing out of it. They just by and large don’t want to be recognized like that. So we taught them how to go to a fast food restaurant and order. We gave them the menu. We told them how to order. They made change and we gave it back to them and whatever. We did that. We did fire in the home. How to get out of the building if it’s on fire, etc. So we taught them all those things using that technology of virtual reality and, to me, that one probably one of the most rewarding projects that I ever got involved with.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>That’s really cool.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Fun too. Like I tell people, I never worked a day in my life. And that’s true. if you enjoy what you’re doing, you never will work a day in your life.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>One of my questions is about challenges. In creating the different simulations for—I guess it’s kind of a broad question—what are some kind of reoccurring challenges that you come into when you go to put together one of these simulations?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, of course, it’s—we always think in terms of cost and schedule and performance, and cost is always an issue. Particularly, if you’re dealing in an area where you cannot define precisely, exactly what you want, and so there’s opportunities there for some, some, uh, you know, movement within that—you know, feasible window of opportunity. So many times cost-growth is an issue—trying to keep the cost within the budget.</p>
<p class="Default">And the same is true with time. Technology changes so rapidly, and usually you want the most current technology in your system. So there might be some delays attributed to that and then when you get to new technology, then there’s a learning curve or whatever. So time can be a problem.</p>
<p class="Default">And performance, uh, can be an issue too, because you really have to understand what the user wants. And it can be sometimes vaguely stated and our engineers and others—our education specialists and psychologists—will write a specification and it may not be exactly what the, uh, expectations of the eventual user. And then you have turn over personnel. you know, the user has different people coming on board, because of rotation. The new person might say, “That’s nice, but here’s what I really want.” So that can drive cost and schedule a little wacko too.</p>
<p class="Default">So those are some challenges and, and the technology itself. You do want to have everything that’s as current as can be, because you’ve got that whole issue of user acceptance to deal with.</p>
<p class="Default">Kids today have the latest bells and whistles, and it’s true in the service too. I mean, all the younger people coming in the service usually are familiar with and have used the latest technology. So, if you come along and give them something that’s lesser than that, they’re not going to be happy and chances are they may not even use it. So you’ve got to be very accommodating to the, uh, you know—the generations as they’re coming along to what you deliver.</p>
<p class="Default">Um, I can give you a good example of that. Today, gaming—you know, we’re using gaming technology in some of the simulator developments, like in decision making and some of those, uh, training devices. They’re actually using off-the-shelf games, um, or it can be just the gaming engines that are being used in the simulations. S, we have a whole new generation now that are familiar with gaming, but we have others that are not familiar with gaming. So we’ve got to bring the new people in as quickly as we can to make sure that we’re satisfying the generational needs of our—our service people. So keeping up with the technology and incorporating that in our latest devices is going to be a challenge. So, um, there are a few challenges. There are other challenges—I’m sure—but, uh, those are a few.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you. Um, and even in that you talked a little bit about this next question—can you tell me about what you think the future looks like for simulation? Specifically here at NAWCTSD. what’s the future look like with what kinds of things they might get into? [00:42:47.25]</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah. these are exciting times, because every time I think that we’re here now—it just goes off onto another curve. I—I liken this to, um, a growth curves that I—I—I’ve been developed for other things, like tennis rackets. Tennis rackets, you know, started out as wood rackets, and then they went to aluminum rackets. Then they went to composite rackets. And every time they go from one technology to another, you get off a growth curve that looks like it’s saturated onto a new growth curve that begins to get saturated and you continue to do that. And that’s where we are right now in simulation and training.</p>
<p class="Default">With—as I mentioned, gaming, for example—it’s opening up a whole new area for us to investigate. An area too that I think is gonna get some attention and that is the fidelity of simulation is determined by brain activity. To be able to measure brain activity in an individual while varying fidelity might give us some indication as to how well we are conveying information to the trainee based on their mental arousal or other, uh, symptoms that would be evident through brain wave measurement. For example, we might take a look at a low fidelity simulator—as opposed to a high fidelity simulator, as opposed to an aircraft and do the same measurement on individuals—and just take a look at what kind of distraction or what kind of concentration takes place in each of those situations.</p>
<p class="Default">So I think there’s, you’re gonna see more activity in the brain—brain measurement area. I’m not up to the point yet where they’re gonna put probes into the head and with one throw of the switch you’ve got it. That—that’s maybe for my son or somebody else to pick up on that, but, um, yeah. I think that’s a very, very good area to and people are doing that now to some degree. Not full-scale yet, but they are looking at it.</p>
<p class="Default">Um, other areas—I mentioned gaming. Again, I think being able to tell a story better. Being able to tell a story of how a simulator is included in the overall scenario or experience that you’re trying to create. The attractions do that really well. They prepare you for it, you know, on The [Twilight Zone] Tower of Terror. you’re terrorized before anything happens for that matter. Or if you go to the Cape [Canaveral], over here where they have the new [NASA Space Shuttle] Atlantis [Exhibit] and you go through the space mission. they get you all prepped for the mission that you’re going to be involved with. They know how to tell a story, and I think we need to do that too with our training for our military personnel. To be able to integrate what we’re doing more into the overall scenario that we’re trying to establish. Yeah.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>And one of my last questions is about the changes that have happened in Orlando because of NAWCTSD’s presence. You kind of described for us what it was a little bit like when simulation kind of got started here. Can you tell us a little bit about how it’s changed? How Orlando has changed because of NAWCTSD’s presence here?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Yeah. I—I think we need to look at it from a little larger picture first. And that is, when we first came down here, there were no companies that—except for Lockheed Martin—that had anything to do with simulation. But then, as simulation began to grow, all these other companies began to come down and wanted to be close to the acquisition agencies—the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard, to some degree too. They want to be close to it, so they begin to orbit essentially the Team Orlando organization that we’ve been talking about to where Team Orlando now accounts for billions of dollars of acquisition of simulators and this accounts for some 27,000 direct employees working with the [U.S.] Defense Department in modeling and simulation.</p>
<p class="Default">Now it’s spread. We’re no longer just defense. We’re into entertainment, homeland security, transportation, medical—all using simulation. And we don’t know how large that piece is, but if the other piece is 27,000, it’s equal to or greater than probably. So what went from a handful of people moving down here in 1965—yeah. We might have 50,000 people now involved in simulation, one way or another.</p>
<p class="Default">Tremendous impact on the tax base in Central Florida., the average salary is about 70,000 dollars a year. people working in the simulation industry and the educational system has been totally responsive. The University of Central Florida, what were our community colleges now are four year colleges that have been set up. We can get a Master’s or Doctorate degree in simulation through UCF. Our high schools now—we have a curriculum in modeling and simulation that NCS put together. It’s on our website. It just seems to be no end to this and that’s good. You know where the long pole in the tent is to all this? Teachers. We don’t have teachers than can teach at the K[indergarten] through 12 level modeling and simulation and let the kids know about the careers that are available and why they need to study STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics]. you know, cause that’s the basis for our business in modeling and simulation is STEM. But it has—it has grown almost exponentially, and I expect it to continue to grow too. In spite of cut backs or other barriers we might see, we’re in a growth, uh—we’re in a growth community right now.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you. Um, do you have any other thoughts? Kind of wrapping up our interview. Any final thoughts about simulation and, um, its benefits? How it benefits us?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>Well, we know about the military. We also know that it’s being infused now into the medical world. Our Lake Nona [Medical City] complex down here—Medical City—has a number of simulations for like endoscopic, other forms of surgery, the Da Vinci simulations, and all. Um, the VA hospital. They all have some form of simulation. so, um, the spectrum has opened up as to the application of simulations. It provides for a wonderful career for individuals that want to get in to a well-paying, yet very, very satisfying career. and we need to really get that information out—get that out to the youngsters so they do they do begin to think of it as a viable career and they can stay in Florida and enjoy what we have here in doing so.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Okraski<br /></strong>My pleasure, Kendra. Thank you for taking the time.</p>
<p><strong>Hazen<br /></strong>Thanks.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Individual Ready Reserve (IRR).</p>
</div>
</div>
1st Marine Corps Division
2F-23
A-3 intruders
A-7
Air Force Reconnaissance Squadron
aircraft simulators
Armstrong, Jack
Army Participation Group
Baldwin Park
ballistic missile early warning sites
Base Realignment and Closure
Battle of Guadalcanal
Bauer
Bill McCollum
BRAC
Bulletin 40-1
Bureau of Aeronautics
C11
Cape Canaveral
Chief of Naval Materials
Chief of Naval Research
Clarkson University
CNR
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
Como, Perry
Cross Creek
CVHP
De Florez, Luis
deaf
deep sea divers
defense industry
defense simulation
defense simulation industry
Deputy Technical Director
Eisenhower, Dwight D.
electrical engineering
electrical engineers
F-102
F-3
Field Service Organization
flight simulation
General Dynamics
Gould-Guggenhiem Estate
Greenland
GS-11
Guadalcanal
Guadalcanal Campaign
Guggenheim
Hayes, Bob
Hazen, Kendra
hearing impaired
Hill, Amanda
Invasion of Normandy
Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy
Lake Nona Medical City
Lake Sybelia Elementary School
Link Aviation Devices, Inc.
Lockheed Martin
Lone Sailor Memorial Committee
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Long Island
Long Island, New York
Luis De Florez Building
Maintenance Engineering Division
Maitland
Marshall, Al
McCollum, Ira William, Jr.
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
MILES
Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System
NASA Space Shuttle Atlantis Exhibit
National Center for Simulation Offices
Naval Air Systems Command
Naval Air Warfare Center
Naval Air Warfare System
Naval Air Warfare Systems Training System Division
Naval Air Warfare Training Systems
Naval Training Center Orlando
Naval Training Device Center
Naval Training Materials Center
Naval Training Systems Center
Navy Memorial of Central Florida
NAWCTSD
NCS
Newfoundland, Canada
Normandy, France
Northport
NTC Orlando
Office of Naval Materials
Office of Naval Research
Okraski, Henry Carl
P2V
Partnership III Building
Physical to Virtual
Port Washington
Potsdam, Germany
radio programs
Rawlings, Marjorie Kinnan
Research and Engineering
Research Parkway
Rollins College
Senior Executive Service
simulation
Special Devices Task
St. Patrick's Grammar School
STEM
stranger danger
tank simulators
Team Orlando
The Wonderful World of Simulation a Brief History of Modeling and Simulation and Its Impact on Our Lives
The Yearling
Thule Air Base
Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
U. S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. Department of Defense
U.S. Marine Corps
U.S. Navy
UC
UCF
UF
University of Central Florida
University of Florida
USS Shenandoah
Utica Free Academy
Utica, New York
V Sub
Veridian
virtual reality
Wheaties
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/80f3e607d88a320d64598c3e159524e3.pdf
b4e544691632fb7971ca4d0e461cc58a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Weeks, Andrew Glen
Interviewee
McClendon, Doris
Location
<a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 DVD/MP4 audio/video recording
Duration
56 minutes and 48 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
1200kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Doris McClendon
Alternative Title
Oral History, McClendon
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Legalmen (United States Navy)
Miami (Fla.)
Homestead (Fla.)
Jacksonville (Fla.)
Navy
Veterans--Florida
Description
An oral history of Doris McClendon, a former member of the U.S. Navy. This interview was conducted by Andrew Glen Weeks at the University of Central Florida (UCF) in Orlando, Florida, on April 11, 2014. The interview was conducted as part of the UCF Community Veteran's History Project (CVHP) and background research for a memorial honoring the for Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />McClendon attended recruit training at the NTC Orlando in 1976. At that time, the training center was the only naval facility to train both male and female recruits. In this oral history, McClendon describes her experience as a female recruit at NTC Orlando. She also talks about her role as a legalmen in the Navy. McClendon left the Navy in 1995 with the rank of E-7.
Table Of Contents
0:00:26 Biographical information<br />0:02:00 Decision to join the navy<br />0:07:59 First impressions of basic training<br />0:14:10 Family life in the Navy<br />0:18:24 Recruit training at NTC Orlando<br />0:26:03 Having children in the Navy<br />0:27:40 Memories of boot camp<br />0:30:10 Assignments following graduation<br />0:36:27 Fondest memories of the Navy<br />0:48:35 Legacy of NTC Orlando
Abstract
Oral history interview of Doris McClendon. Interview conducted by Andrew Glen Weeks at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/280/rec/1" target="_blank">McClendon, Doris</a>. Interviewed by Andrew Glen Weeks. UCF Community Veterans History Project. April 11, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Community Veterans History Project (CVHP)</a>, Library of Congress, http://www.loc.gov/vets/.
Coverage
Pine Villa Elementary School, Miami, Florida
Mays Junior High School, Goulds, Florida
South Dade Senior High School, Homestead, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Walt Disney World, Orlando, Florida
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
USS Arizona Memorial, Honolulu, Hawaii
Jacksonville, Florida
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Blue Lagoon,
Iceland
Naval Air Station Keflavik, Keflavik, Iceland
Germany
Creator
Weeks, Andrew Glen
McClendon, Doris "Dee"
Publisher
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries
Contributor
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-04-11
Date Copyrighted
2014-04-11
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
528 MB
183 KB
Medium
56-minute and 48-second DVD/MP4 audio/video recording
21-page typed transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
<p>Originally created by Andrew Glen Weeks and Doris McClendon, and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>.</p>
Rights Holder
All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/.
Accrual Method
Donation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Barnes, Mark
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
Ebbert, Jean, Marie-Beth Hall, and Edward L. Beach. <em><a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/41090799" target="_blank">Crossed Currents: Navy Women in a Century of Change</a></em>. Washington, D.C.: Brassey's, 1999.
Godson, Susan H. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/46791080" target="_blank"><em>Serving Proudly: A History of Women in the U.S. Navy</em></a>. Annapolis, Md: Naval Institute Press, 2001.
Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/280/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Doris McClendon</a>
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 56-minute and 48-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/280/rec/1" target="_blank">McClendon, Doris</a>. Interviewed by Andrew Glen Weeks. UCF Community Veterans History Project. April 11, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Transcript
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Alright. Today is April 11th, 2014. I am interviewing Doris [“Dee”] McClendon who served in the U. S. Navy. We are interviewing Mrs. McClendon as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans’ History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at UCF. Will you please start off by telling us where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I was born in Miami, Florida, Andrew.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>And what year was that?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I was born in 1958.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My dad was a laborer and my mom didn’t work so she was kind of like a stay at home mom. She did kind of odd and in things. Clean houses or you know [inaudible]. It was kind of like a—I guess you would say like a cleaning lady type of thing—but yeah. As far as a full-time job, no, she didn’t work. She stayed at home.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Do you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Yes. three brothers and three sisters. I am the second oldest of seven children. There are six of us now. I have a sister that passed away in 2009.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>And where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I went to school. Elementary school—Pine Villa Elementary School. I went to Mays Junior High School and South Dade Senior High School. All in Miami, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Did you do anything in between school and joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Just a summer job I worked. Obviously I was a full-time student and then for the summer, I would do odds and in things. Summer jobs, [inaudible] type of things, but my first real job was of course the military.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>And when was that?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>In [19]76.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>‘76. Why did you choose the Navy specifically?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I chose the Navy, because—and I’ll tell you the story of how I actually joined the military and I’ll never forget it. We were—I was at a high school pep rally. We actually had a Navy recruiter come to the pep rally and of course a recruiter’s job is to recruit. So he came and we were all sitting there and kind of just talking—all the kids and stuff—and he actually just walked across the stage to the podium and there was something about him that really struck me. I liked the way he presented himself. I loved the uniform. The ribbons stood out and he was selling and I bought it. I was really impressed. Of course, obviously—and I guess by the same token, it could have been the [United States] Army. But there was something about him and at that point I made the decision then to join the military. Of course, my parents supported that and that’s really how I got there.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Do you have any other family members in the service?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Yes. My brother, Michael. United States Army. My son actually is [in the] United States Army and my daughter is [in the] United States Air Force, and of course my husband United States Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>All around. So, I take it your family was pretty supportive.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Absolutely. Absolutely, they were. And actually, my plan was, after I graduated high school—South Dade Senior High—my plan was to go to the University of Miami. That’s where I was actually slated to go, but that recruiter really changed my mind. I remember after his spiel, I went up to talk to him and said, “You know what? If I didn’t have plans to go to college, I would join the Navy.” And he says[sic], “Well, you have the best of both worlds. You can still do the military and still get your college degree.” And I said, “Wow. The best of both worlds.” And he said, “How would you like to go to college in Hawaii or wherever the military may send you?”</p>
<p>And I tell you what, it really came full circle. My very first assignment after basic training was Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. I know. Everything just fell in place. It was meant to be. Best decision. Best decision I ever made. I ever made. So—and of course, I was still able to go to school. I worked. And of course, when military didn’t call, when I didn’t have duties or assignments there, I would go to school at night. I did have the best of both worlds.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Where did you attend basic training?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Basic training was right here at Recruit Training Command in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>And what were you trained to do for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I made it known in the beginning, because I was always was fascinated with law. I grew up watching Perry Mason. So I grew up in shows about law and order and jag. All this stuff really fascinated me. So my plan was to go to college, get a college degree, and go to law school. So that was my plan. But since my plan was changed, I went into the military. Of course, I went in without a college degree so I started as an E[nlisted Rank]-1, but I made it known—my very first assignment—I made it known that that’s what I wanted to do after basic training and then what I did was—when I enlisted—I enlisted with guaranteed school. So I just made it known early on that that’s what I wanted.</p>
<p>It was actually after basic training—of course I went to administrative school, because you have to start there—but from there, I went to my very first assignment. Made it known that I wanted to be a paralegal or the military—they’re called legalmen. I was sent to school there. After school, that’s the career I followed and to this day, I am still doing the same thing, although retired from the military. I’m at the courthouse and I’m doing the exact same thing. Working on the second retirement so to speak.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Did you have any experiences here in Orlando before you came for training?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>No. Did I have any experiences in Orlando before I came? No. But you know what? Growing up in my household, obviously chores was[sic] not unique to me. Getting up in the morning and making my bed— that was a requirement in my household. Washing dishes, mopping the floor, all of that, none of that.</p>
<p>And of course, coming from Florida, the weather didn’t bother me, because—I know to some of the recruits, especially coming from cold climates, to come to Florida in the heat, none of that bothered me. I didn’t have any problems with recruit training. Didn’t have any problems taking orders or any of that. And that was instilled just as a child.</p>
<p>My parents, you know—they were parents. We were just taught early on to do what you’re told. Be respectful. You don’t work, you don’t eat. Obviously those types of things. Again, chores were not foreign to me. So in the military, first thing you did when you get up, you get that bunk made up and those corners better be tight. Obviously, they had to teach me how to make the corners tight. But making up my bed, I was used to doing that. To this day, I get up out of the bed, first thing I do. I made it up. It’s just instilled in me. Wonderful experience, the military was.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Tell me about your first impression arriving at training.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My first impression of course—it was very scary. It was very scary, because here I am— I’m not under my parents’ roof. I’m under Uncle Sam’s roof. And I get off the bus, and oh my gosh—company commanders. They were just that. Company Commanders.</p>
<p>So it was a scary situation, because I arrived here, it was late, late, late in the evening and I guess just the fear of the unknown. I was scared. I was scared. But at the end of the day when it all washed up, it was all for nothing. It was all for nothing. Then, of course, lonely. Here I am, I left my mom and dad back in Miami, all my sisters and brothers. Now I’m on this bus. I just got on this bus and there’s[sic] 80 women. We’re all scared. You could tell we’re all scared. Some of them crying, some of them not. But it really worked out. It worked out. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What were your primary responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>At basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Do whatever they say do. That was my primary responsibility. And of course, obviously it was very structured. We had PT—physical fitness. We had studies. So we had training time physically and we had training time mentally. So we were taught what the standing orders were. We were taught the chain of command structure. So we were taught all of that and that’s the purpose of it to prepare you for the fleet. To prepare you to walk outside the gate and be prepared to defend your country, but all along, obviously it’s a learning process.</p>
<p>You don’t learn everything in basic training. You don’t learn everything. So because basic training was six and a half to eight weeks. There is no way you’re going to learn about any military in six to eight weeks, but it was all a learning process. It’s just like with your job. You’re not going to start a job, and in six weeks, know everything there is to know. I guess some people may do that, but I didn’t pick up that quick. But it was a learning process but you’re equipped with the basics for sure.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What was your impression of other recruits?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>You know what, Andrew? At first, I would look at them and my heart would go out to a lot of them, but we were all in the same boat. We were all scared. We all didn’t know what was going to happen. Of course, my recruiter prepared me. My recruiter didn’t tell me that, “Okay, Dee. When you get off the bus, there will be a red carpet there and they’re going to walk you down the carpet. They’re gonna lead you to the…” So my recruiter didn’t tell me that. I was prepared to be broken down individually and be raised up with the team, with the unit.</p>
<p>So when I got off that bus, it was all about Dee, but when I left, I wasn’t that way. It was about that person in that bunk next to me who would probably have to defend my back one day. So it was all about that. So I realized the purpose was to break you down individually so it’s not about self. A lot of soldiers and sailors are depending on you to know your job and they’re depending on you. You know, as far as support goes. So I did take a look at a lot of the recruits and we were all scared but, by the end of that basic training, who would have known? Who would have known? Yeah and a lot of those—we’re best friends today. A lot of those contacts, I still have them in my address book and we’re very good friends to this day. We just kept in contact.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Wow. Was there any kind of social life on base then?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Yes. There was. Now, in basic training, there was no social life. You didn’t have any time for anything. So, no. No social life in basic training, because it was all about preparation, preparation, preparation. You lived for mail call—to get a letter from home. You lived for that. But no there was no social life whatsoever. That didn’t begin.</p>
<p>Actually for me, there was no social life actually as I got more acclimated and knowing my duties. Of course, every duty station was a different assignment. It was a different location, different people, different bosses, different staff, but eventually, as you get more comfortable—I started to get more comfortable as years progressed, of course. After basic training, my very first duty station as an E-1. I made number one and I’m looking at my boss who has all these stripes on his arm. I’m scared half to death. I’m scared half to death. But all of that was for nothing. Met the best people and the support that you get is just—I can’t even begin to explain it.</p>
<p>But yeah. social life didn’t begin until after I had had some years under my belt, because I spent all my time studying, because my goal was—and I knew in basic training that I was going to retire. I just knew it and my goal was, <em>Dee, while you’re here, we should make this work for you. You wanted to go to school. You’re gonna go to school.</em> And I was able to do everything. All my goals. I was able to do everything that I had on my list. I knew I was gonna retire day one. I was scared to death, but I knew. I woke up that next morning and said, you know what, I’ll be here for 20 years. I will.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Wow.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Mmhmm. I was just that comfortable with that. I’ve never regretted the decision. I’ve never woken up and said, <em>Oh my gosh. Why did I do this?</em></p>
<p>And there have been times where, you know, I’ve had to leave my kids and when what I was saying—I was just so fortunate that—I mean, I eventually married the love of my life who’s also in the military. And back then, we were just fortunate enough that we were never ever away at the same time. So it was always one of us home. Either he was TAD—temporary additional duty—or I was. It just worked out that we were never gone at the same time. I know it’s not like that anymore, but it was when I was there. We were just blessed and fortunate that there was always one of us there, because eventually—my kids who are now in the military.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>When did you meet your husband?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I met my husband in ‘78. And I met my husband at the very first duty station, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. I was in Hawaii. Met him in Hawaii and it’s what? Thirty something years later?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Did you know?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>No. No. [<em>laughs</em>] No. No. No, I didn’t know that. I was saying—no. I didn’t know that. But anyway—but yeah I met him and we’ve been together ever since. That I didn’t know. But, yeah everything was further down. I’ve been truly blessed.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Tell me what your instructors were like during basic training.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>We had, of course—I had female instructors, but we trained together. We trained—I was in an integrated company so males and females—we trained together. Although their job was to be rough and tough, which they fulfilled. And I think they went a little overboard, which they fulfilled, but of course their job wasn’t for me to like them. wasn’t for any of us to like them. Their job was to give us orders and for us to make sure that we carry them around and they are the ones that prepared me. That’s the only contact that you have—your company commander.</p>
<p>So a lot of responsibilities are placed on that person and their job is to prepare you for the fleet. Obviously, when we screwed up—you betcha. But when once a person screwed up, “Oh, it wasn’t Dee.” It wasn’t one person screwin’ up. It was the entire company. If one failed, you all failed. So, no. It’s not one person, it’s the company. So it behooved you to get it right or, if you messed it up the first time, trust me, you won’t make that same mistake again. You won’t make that same mistake again. It was never one person and my company commanders.</p>
<p>And of course, at the time I would say no. I didn’t like them. Didn’t care for them. Of course, obviously, orders were barked at you. That didn’t bother me, because I told you, my household—my parents didn’t, as they say, play the radio. But I realized early on what the big plan was. I realized early on what the goal was. what their job was. I never took any of it personally, because you could—oh my gosh—because again, and I say I think the purpose was to tear you down individually so you’re not thinking about yourself and you’ll get back up as a unit. There were 80 females in my unit. Can you imagine what we all thought of ourselves? On my gosh. Can you imagine that would have been? Mmm mmm. Before it was over, I thought of my shipmates. I put them first even before me. I’ll tell you what. We got there, we would eye each other and kind of size each other up. On day one, you’re talking about some crying. When that was over, when basic training was over and we each parted our ways, some of us met again in another place. Some of them, I’ve never seen since, but I always remembered them</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What was a basic day like?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>A basic day was like—obviously we would have—we would get up early in the morning., and when I say early, I’m talkin’ four o’clock. It would be like four o’clock in the morning to get up, because obviously we have to be prepared and be standing at attention in line ready for inspection when our company commanders got there. So you figure that’s a company of 80 girls. So we all got in, got showered, got to change. When they say “military showered” —got to change. When they say “military showers”—two-three minutes. Because there’s[sic] 80 girls that got to get in and get ready. And then get ready, stand in line. If we know the company commander’s gonna be there at eight o’clock , you best be there standing in that line in front of your bunk ready for personal inspection. Ready for your bunk inspection and that was first thing in the morning.</p>
<p>Obviously everyday consisted of PT [physical fitness] on the grinder, which they called “the field. “Every morning consisted of calisthenics PT. After PT, there would be breakfast and it just depends on which week we were in, because—believe it or not—there was week one. There was a schedule. Week one, week two, three, four. Of course, obviously, early on, we would see company commanders on the weekend, but as you got more—as the weeks went by, you would start to see them less and less, because then at that point, we didn’t need them as much as we did in the beginning.</p>
<p>But of course, weekends—normally Saturdays—we would have to ourselves. Later on, not in the beginning—Sundays—it was up to you. There was[sic] church services. You could pick what church service you want to go to. Go to church services. I think everybody went to church. Everybody would be there. We’d would be huggin’ and cryin’ and—“Lord, when is this gonna be over? When is this gonna be over?” And then, what I loved about it is the company that sat in front, that was your last week. So your goal was to make it to the very front of that church, because you know that that’s the company that’s gonna be graduating that weekend. So that was your last week.</p>
<p>And so there was a schedule and company commanders set a schedule—week one through week eight. But it was definitely calisthenics every day. Definitely there were studies every day. Then of course, we did have time for ourselves. Not a lot. Not a lot in the beginning, but like I said, you live to get that letter from home. We had time to write letters and then normally that would be on your downtime. And again, in the beginning, there wasn’t a lot of downtime, because the object is to get that mind trained while it’s fresh. But toward the end, there was a lot of downtime.</p>
<p>As you got closer to graduating, you would have a weekend where you could do whatever you want. I remember going to [Walt] Disney [World] and all of that. I wish I had been to Disney before, because I was born and raised in Florida—in Miami. So I had gone to Universal [Studios Orlando]. I had gone to Disney. And actually, we did that on our senior trip—on our senior trip in high school. By the time you get to week five, you’re—oh, like it’s pretty much downhill now. <em>Oh, I got this. I got this. Yeah.</em> You know how you’re doing academically and obviously you have to pass tests.</p>
<p>And even today, there’s physical fitness tests. You gotta be—I’m not sure what the standards are now. It’s your different age group. Obviously a 19-year-old should be able to run a mile in less time than a 40-year-old so depending on your age, the standards were different, but there is a physical fitness standard in the military. All branches. You gotta be physically fit. I mean, you know, you can’t be tryin’ to get up a hill carrying whatever you need to carry and be all out of breath. That’s not gonna work. So, that’s not gonna work. Even today, you gotta look sharp in that uniform.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Was it difficult for you at all?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Not at all. No. I had no problem with the physical fitness portion. Now, I will admit I wasn’t used to getting up at three-four o’clock in the morning going out there doing—on the grinder doing military sit-ups and mountain climbers and all of that. So I wasn’t used to doing that, but you conform. But no, it wasn’t a problem. No. It wasn’t a problem, because I was very—even in high school—I was very athletic and so that didn’t bother me. None of that did.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>You mention that you lived for the letters—letter day.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Oh, letter day. yes.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Who would you write letters to and who would you get letters from?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I’d get letters of course from my parents, my sisters and brothers. “Oh, I miss you guys. I miss you.” And I’m like, “Well, you weren’t telling me that when I was there.” Then of course, I was the oldest girl. My siblings looked up to me. I had one brother older than I am, but I think there is something special about being the oldest daughter. Of course, when I left—and I say even my baby brother—I just think, <em>Oh my gosh.</em> I think he thought I was his mom for a little while, because he’s a lot younger than I am. But it was like, “Oh my gosh. Our sister is gone.” That was the first time that family was detached.</p>
<p>So I was the first one to leave home. And I’ll tell you what, when that recruiter came to pick me up to take me to the train station, and—from my parents’ house to the end of the walkway to the car was his car—the recruiting car—that was the longest step. Oh my gosh. I thought I would never—and maybe I was just walking real slow[sic]. I don’t know what it was. I said that was the longest driveway. I just looked at the car like I was gonna never get there. And obviously I know it was all mentally now. Just the fear of—was all ready to go, ready to go, ready to go. But when the day actually came—because I looked back, my mom was crying. I said I can’t look back, because if she’s crying, she’s gonna start me. Because obviously, I was going to miss my family. That’s with anything. That’s with anything. Even if I had gone off to college, I would have still had the same feeling, because I’m gonna miss them. I’m gonna miss them. I didn’t tell my siblings that often, but yeah. I was gonna miss them.</p>
<p>But yeah. We lived for letter day. We had time to write letters so I would just catch up, see how things were going, and we would just do it through letters. There were opportunities that we would do phone calls and when I went in—I mean, I was able to call my parents. I don’t know whether it’s like that anymore, but I was able to call just to let them know—do what we call a “well visit” or a “well phone call” or whatever they call it today, just to let your loved ones know that you made it safely and you’re here. And to tell them that, “Okay. now just so you know, don’t be expecting letters every day. Don’t be expecting phone calls, because we’re here now and I just wanted to let you know that we are safe and we made it safely. Now, the fun begins.” So yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>But anyways—and I am hopeful they still do that, but I don’t know. Well, yeah. Because I know my son called me. My son—my older son grew up and went into the Army. It was a couple days later, but he did call me to let me know that he was there. So I understood all of that, because I lived it. Because I know one of the questions—a friend of mine—“Oh my gosh. Your children are going into the military. How can you stand it? Oh my gosh. You’re gonna let him go?” And I say, “Well, it’s going to be his decision just like it was mine. My parents supported me and I’m going to support him.” I mean I lived it so I know.</p>
<p>When my daughter, who is stationed in San Antonio, Texas—United States Air Force—when she calls, I can relate. You know, my son, who is in the Army stationed in Germany—I can relate. Me and my husband—we can relate, because we’ve lived it. I supported their decision. Didn’t realize they were going in the military though. Being raised in the military though. Being raised in the military, I thought, <em>Oh my gosh. That’s they last thing that they would do.</em> But they went in. Out of three children, two of them went into the military.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>You mentioned the grinder earlier. Tell me about the grinder.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Alright. the grinder is just a field. Imagine—all it is—that’s what they call it in the military. The grinder is just a—it’s similar to—just imagine a basketball court with no goals. All it is just a slate of concrete. It’s all mapped out, because a lot of the time you’re doing different exercises on there but the grinder—you do your calisthenics on there. As you start getting closer to graduation, you do your formations on there. You have to practice different formations. It’s really big. Each company—you could have—oh my gosh—quite a few companies out there practicing formations and the formations they issue, you gotta be able to line up properly. There’s a flag bearer in the front with the flag and you got to be able to position that right, carry that right, you got to be able to line up and there was a whole bunch of different things we used to and that’s all that is. It’s just a big field with no grass. All I guess concrete. In the military, they called it a “grinder”. So what that came from, what that name comes from, I don’t know. I’m sure there’s a reason.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>So what did it feel like to finally graduate?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Mixed feelings. Believe it or not, I cried. I really did. I cried. Because I knew there was going to be some relationships that would probably—some of my friends that I would probably never see again. I was definitely ecstatic. Definitely happy that it was over. Then—<em>Oh my gosh. I did it. Oh, I did it. I did it. I did it.</em> Then, at the same time, I was sad, because, believe it or not, those company commanders who got on my last nerve—I was gonna miss them, because that was it. That was your family. You’d be surprised how closely you could bond. So our company commanders, boy, were we gonna miss them. I think everybody cried. Even our company commanders. Those two harsh, tough company commanders—you just saw a different side of them. You saw a different side of them. So yeah. it was happiness and sadness. When they put the orders in your hand for that next assignment, and you’re like, I’m never gonna see them again. We’re never gonna wake up together again. we’re never gonna sit there. Because, believe it or not, I had 80 sisters. And although that sounds—oh my gosh—80 sisters? How’d I even deal with three? Now I’ve got 80. So it was like leaving 80 of my family members.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Tell me about your first assignment.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My very first assignment—after basic training, I went to school. And my very first assignment was Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. I think I told you that. That was my very first assignment. I worked in a legal office. I was at Fleet Training Group in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. So what I used to do is—I had to take a little small boat— that’s what they called it—similar to like a little dinky, I guess—little small boat. And every morning, because I worked on an island, a little boat would take me to [inaudible] island. And every morning I would pass the [U.S.S.] <em>Arizona</em> Memorial. We would pass it every morning and I would look down and it seemed like I could see the bubbles. You could still see down there. I took that little boat to work every morning and I was there for three years I think.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks <br /></strong>What did you do?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I worked in the administrative field and they put me in a law office, because I made it known in the beginning that that’s what I wanted to do. Remember the female Perry Mason part? Yeah. So I made it known early on that’s what I wanted to do. but being a legalman or a paralegal, you had to be an E-5 in order to be able to convert to that rank. But one of the requirements before you could do this—you had to have an administrative background.</p>
<p>So after basic training I actually went to school in Meridian, Mississippi—Yeoman A School. And from there, I went to my very first assignment, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. And I made it known then that that’s what I wanted to be. You know what? Every assignment that I had was always in a law office. I mean, you hear stories—you got to do your duties and work in the galley, peel potatoes, and swab the decks—and I guess I was put in a position where I was always needed—the services were always needed. They were always shorthanded so even as an E-1, I was in a legal office. So I never got a chance to enjoy that—the swabbing the deck and peeling the potatoes and the galley and all the other stuff you hear. I never did any of that but it all worked out just the same. Always in a law office, every duty station, every assignment.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Where did you go from Hawaii?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>From Pearl Harbor, Hawaii—I’m trying to think here. I left Hawaii and I went to Jacksonville. I went to AIMD—Aircraft Intermediate Makers Department—in Jacksonville, Florida. There I worked in an administrative office, as well. I worked in the admin office there as well. Of course, it was an aircraft intermediate maintenance department, so I worked in an admin office where there was nothing but hangars with planes. That’s what they did—kind of just fix the planes. My job was, of course, obviously to process paperwork, make sure the records are processed, those types of things.</p>
<p>From Jacksonville, Florida, I went to—because like I said, you had to be in an administrative field, you had to be an E-5. So as soon as I made E-5, I went to legalman school or paralegal school. and, from that point on, my rate changed, because I was an administrative yeoman and my rate changed to legalmen. All along, even as a yeoman, I was always in an office. So I went to Legalmen A School in Newport, Rhode Island. I left there gone to my first assignment as a paralegal.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>How long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My school in Newport, Rhode Island?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My school was four or five months. Four or five intense months. One thing too, —it’s like any other specialty or any other job, even in the military, you’re constantly training, because the law changes all the time and a lot of your opinion on what you’re doing, even as a civilian—a lot of times you’re required to, even as a civilian, you are—a lot of times you’re required to maintain your certification so you’re required to—as things change, you go to different schools to learn what the new changes are. That’s the same in the military no matter what your job is. Every time there’s a change, there’s[sic] different schools you go to, to learn the new equipment or learn the new structure or what.</p>
<p>So after [inaudible] school in Newport, Rhode Island—then, I left Newport, Rhode Island and I went to my very first assignment as a paralegal. I think that was in Norfolk, Virginia. So from then on—that was all in Norfolk, Virginia. Of course, I worked for the Navy Marine Corps Trial Judiciary. It was myself and another senior chief. We were staffed for at that time eight JAGs [Judge Advocate Generals]—eight judges—military judges. Our job was to do their scheduling. Get their scheduling done, set hearings. Whatever it was that day. And that’s what we did. Hearings, hearings, courts, trials. It was actually trials. At that time, I was there, there were eight jags.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Did you enjoy that?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Oh, yes. I did. I did. I did. I’ve always been fortunate enough to be around good people. In the military and outside the military, and even now, I work for a good group of people.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks <br /></strong>When you think about your experiences, what would you say, if you could, your fondest memory of your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>My fondest memory of my time in the Navy—of course, obviously graduation. Graduation from boot camp is one of them. Actually, you know what? I really can’t pinpoint any one thing. I loved all my assignments. I enjoyed it. I made every assignment work. Obviously, I been[sic]—early on, you go where the needs of the military are. You don’t have a choice of where you go, so you go where they send you and I look at it this way: Had it not been for the military, I probably never would have saw[sic] Hawaii. Absolutely. I probably wouldn’t have saw[sic] it. All the places that I’ve traveled—had it not been for the military, I probably never would have had the opportunity to see that. So I loved all the travels. I enjoyed all the people that I met. My assignments—I loved that. I would think that to come full circle, graduating from basic training and then retiring. All the stuff in between was just gravy, I think. I think that was my—the very first fond memory definitely was graduating basic training. <em>Dee, you made it. You made it.</em></p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>I want to ask you about the Naval Training Center [Orlando] a little bit. Were there ever business that would come there—family members, outsiders?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>At the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I’m sure there was. Now, I was here in Orlando at the Naval Training Center, but I worked at recruit training command. The base was broken up into two sections. On one side of the base was recruit training command where the recruits trained. Then the other side was the actual training center, which obviously, you didn’t have recruits on that side. I’m sure there was[sic] over where I was and I was on the recruit training side. The only time visitors were there was when you were close to graduating and you could have your family members—you know, you’re getting ready to pass—review for your graduation. You could have visitors. I remember when I was in, I never saw any visitors. Half the time I was scared to death anyway. On the recruit training side, no. There was[sic] no family member visitors if that’s what you’re saying, but once you’re graduated—and that’s the thing—two totally separate things: basic training is one thing.</p>
<p>But once you graduate, to me, it was a regular job. Obviously there were restrictions and there were extra things. In other words, I was required to stay on duty. I was required—if they needed me to go on assignment, I was there. Other than that, when I wasn’t working, that was my free time. So it’s that the military had hostage over me. It wasn’t anything like that. It was a regular assignment. Whatever my work schedule was, I would do my work schedule. When I’m off work, I’m off work. Obviously though, you’re in the military 24 hours a day. And you should carry yourself that way, because when you’re out there, people don’t say, “Oh, look at Dee.” They say, “Oh my gosh. She’s in the Navy? She’s out there doing that.” So, they don’t see that. They don’t see you. They see the military. “That’s how they act in the military?” So you’re always in the military, 24 hours a day while you’re in it and you’re representing your country the entire time that you’re in, but your free time is your free time. It was just like a regular job to me.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>So did you travel off base a lot?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Yes I did. I traveled off base a lot. For my first years, I lived on base. The weekends was[sic] mine. Pearl Harbor, Hawaii—that was my very first assignment. When I wasn’t working, I was out at the beach at [inaudible] and all those other ones. And I would see things, go to the beach. Oh, yeah. I used that opportunity to see things, because I probably would have never saw it but you know what, you never know. But I couldn’t imagine I’d be going to Hawaii had it not been for the military. Only because that probably been the furthest thing—that wouldn’t have been on my bucket list. Let me put it that way. Probably wouldn’t have been on my bucket list, so I probably wouldn’t have made it there. But yes. My free time—I would do traveling.</p>
<p>Then, we were in Iceland and my free time—of course, we had a few Icelandic friends who would take us to see Blue Lagoon and here it is. it’s freezing. Snow is on the ground, but you’re in the water and it’s just this warm and the vapors are coming up. Different things—I wouldn’t have had any thoughts of going to Iceland. See, I would never think of going to Iceland, but I was there two—for another year. My husband and I—our child. We had a son born there.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>In Iceland?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>In Iceland. yeah. I had a son born in Iceland who has dual citizenship, but I never would have saw Iceland had it not been for the military. Never would have saw Germany had it not been for the military. I mean it wasn’t on my list. <em>Okay, Dee, you must go to Iceland. You must go to Germany.</em> That would have never been on my list. I don’t think.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What was your favorite place that you traveled?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I loved Germany. I loved Germany. I think at the time I traveled there, I had a brother stationed there. so I was able to see some things. He took us on tours. We were able to see the castles and all the old artifacts. So I loved Germany. Germany and Iceland was[sic] my favorite. Germany and Iceland was[sic] my favorite.</p>
<p>Even though I wouldn’t say that when I first got to Iceland. I tell you, it’s so cold there you can barely see your hand in front of your face. I mean they have what they call “white outs.” It is so—I mean, the snow and everything and the wind is blowing. You can’t even see your hand in front of your face. That’s how cold it is. I got off the plane and my sponsor was waiting there for me with a big parka. It looked like an Eskimo parka with a hood and the fur. That thing must have weighed ten pounds. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Iceland, as well. And I enjoyed Germany. But you know what? I just enjoyed—I made the best of every place that I was at.</p>
<p>We did a tour in Key West[, Florida]. I hated to go there, but somebody had to do it. We did a tour in Key West, but you know what? When the military said, “This is where you’re going.” The first thing I do is—<em>Okay, Dee. What’s unique about this place? That’s what you want to see. You’re gonna be there. Make it work for you. </em>So that’s what I did. Well, just in case I never get back again, I’m gonna make sure I see this, this, this, this, when I can. So that’s what I did. I just viewed it differently. I didn’t view it like, Oh gosh, I don’t want to go there. No. I didn’t view it that way. I said, <em>You know what?</em> I just view it as another opportunity that I probably wouldn’t have otherwise.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Did other people have that same kind of mindset?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>And you know what? I don’t think so. You talk to people and I just believe that you like it or you don’t. It’s probably not appealing to a lot of people. Every two or three years you’re picking up. I mean every two-three years you’re just getting settled. Now you’re picking up and moving to another assignment. Oh my gosh. Now you’re going to some place where perhaps you may not even speak the language. It could be a country—a foreign country in Italy or some place. Or it could be a place they’re sending you where your language is not the dominant language. Now, if you have a family—oh my gosh. I just got my kids settled or now. I’m just in school myself. Now it’s time for me to transfer.</p>
<p>I just believe that you either like it or you don’t. For some people it works. For some people it’s not their cup of tea. Some people say, “You know what? Let me just try it.” At the end of that term, “You know, I don’t think that was for me, but I wanted to just give it a shot.” It just depends. I think that’s the main thing. Even in the civilian sector—I mean, you walk into a job now, either you like it or you don’t. <em>You know what? Let me just stay here until something else better comes along.</em> You either like it or you don’t or you make it work for you. <em>You know what? I like it. My job is to be there. Whatever I’m gonna do is whatever I need to do. If I need more schooling, if I need community service, I’m going to walk in with where I want to be in that company and you just start and you work toward a better</em> [inaudible]. Again, like I said, you talk to some people and they don’t like it. I just think it’s different for everybody.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>You mentioned that your son was born in Iceland. How did the birth of your son change your time in the military?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>You know what? It didn’t. When we got there—actually, I was pregnant with the child when we got there. My son was born probably about maybe three-four months after I had gotten there. We enjoyed Iceland. Our original tour was only for two years and we enjoyed it so we asked for a year extension. I enjoyed Iceland, in addition to seeing some of the other countries. You know, I like the Naval Air Station Keflavik, Iceland.</p>
<p>At the time when I was in, you lived aboard what they call the greeting area. Everybody lived on base. You’re not allowed to live off base. Of course, just the closeness and the comradery between the sailors was very good, because we were all there together. For me, we had an added benefit, because my boss at the time working at the Naval Legal Services Detachment at the time. His wife was Icelandic, so we got to go to places that we probably would never have gotten to go, because we just don’t know the country. We just don’t know the country, so I really enjoyed that. We just wanted to stay an additional year and it would have been nice and I probably would have stayed a little longer, but, I mean, career-wise, I think it was just time to move. I didn’t want to stay dormant in one place too long.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>One thing that we ask everyone who has been to the Naval Training Center is what do you think its lasting legacy in Central Florida is?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>I think the lasting legacy is—and I’m just going to speak toward when I was there. I think one of legacies is going to be—that’s the only facility where men and women train together. That’s what I remember. The men and the women trained together—one of the first bases to have integrated companies. Nowhere else did they ever do that. They didn’t do it in California. They didn’t do it in Great Lakes. We trained together, which made sense to me. We’re going to fight together, so why can’t we train together? I think that’s one of the lasting legacies.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Why do you think other training centers didn’t allow women?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>You know what? That’s a good question. I don’t know, because the only other centers were out in California and Great Lakes. Maybe harassment? “Oh my gosh. Men and women can’t train together. Oh, what would that do?” I never knew the reasoning behind that. If a war broke out, men are not going to be on this side and women on this side. We’re all going to be together. That’s the legacy that I remember.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What do you think visitors would like to see or be reminded of when they visit the site of the base?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>What they would like to see?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>When they revisit the base here? You know what? What I miss is the [USS] <em>Blue Jacket</em>. I miss the <em>Blue Jacket</em>. I really do miss the <em>Blue Jacket</em>. Of course, we got a tour there. I missed the bear. We had some beautiful compounds, but I really do miss the <em>Blue Jacket</em>. Even now, when I go down that street—there’s a park down there—when I go down that street to go to the VA [Veterans Health Administration] hospital for my appointments, I always look over there. I look over there and I’m like, <em>Oh my gosh. I remember that. I remember the tour.</em></p>
<p>Everybody gets the tour that comes at basic training, because obviously—Navy—you go to sea. You’re on the boat and it’s a replica. It’s exactly how it looks. It’s exactly how it looks. So you get to go down those hatches—those itty bitty small hatches that you can barely fit in. You go down those hatches—the bells. Permission to come ashore. permission to come aboard. You do all of that. It’s a true replica. They train you exactly the way it is in the military. The way it is once you leave those gates. They really prepare you for the outside. Now whether you chose to use that or not it’s really up to you but they prepare you. They really do. I can only speak for my two company commanders. They do an excellent job at preparing us for the fleet.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Tell me about when you were getting ready to leave the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>When I was getting ready to leave the Navy, of course—mixed emotions. Of course, it was the only thing I knew and actually even after I retired, I was looking at different high schools trying to get on as NJROTC [Navy Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps] instructors. It was a really big adjustment for me, because that was the only thing that I knew and it was so totally different in the civilian world.</p>
<p>Number one: now there’s no uniform now. Just to hang the uniform up was a big adjustment for me, because for years, every morning I didn’t have to decide what shoes go with what. I knew it was going to be the black boondockers. Okay. you’re going to put on your whites or your blues. So just to not get up to put the uniform on was a big adjustment. It was really an adjustment period for me.</p>
<p>I tried for years to get back on. Obviously, on retirement, I couldn’t come back in. Even now—I’m too old now—but if they called me and said, “Dee, we need you.” I’d be just—“Let me get my sea bag ready. I’m ready.” They wouldn’t do that now. I’m just too old now to go back in.</p>
<p>But yeah. it was a big adjustment. Retirement was bittersweet. It really was bittersweet. Number one—<em>Oh, Dee. what are you going to do? Put us under—put to the side everything that you’ve known for all these years. Now you’re going to embark on something different.</em> Just the thought of, <em>Oh my gosh. Now I have to go on an interview. How do I interview? What do you wear to an interview? What do you wear to an interview?</em> Just the thought of having to look for a job, that was kind of scary. Once you get through all of that, it all worked out. Walked into a job and it’s been there ever since. It was bittersweet. Bitter, because it kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth, because I was walking away from everything that I knew. And sweet, because now you get a chance to live the rest of your life. You dedicated the first portion to the military. Now you get a chance to build the rest of your life. Whatever that entailed. I knew I’m going to work in somebody’s legal office, because that’s all I knew how to do and that’s what I enjoy. So why change what works for you?</p>
<p><strong>Weeks</strong>If it ain’t broke…</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>Absolutely. [<em>laughs</em>] Absolutely. It was just bittersweet and to this day, do I miss it? Yeah. I still do and I’ve been retired for a while and I still miss it.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>What’s the most valuable thing the Navy taught you?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>That I can do whatever I set my mind to do. That I can do whatever I set my mind to do. It’s pretty much—and I will say military—although the military has taught me that, I think that really stems back just from my parents, my childhood. They encouraged all of their kids. You know what? If you can see it, you can do it. You can see it, you can do it. You can dream it, you can do it. That’s what I try to do to my children. Now, if you see that right there, that means you can aim for it. It’s right in your path. go for it. If you can see it, you can do it. I believe that.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to add that I didn’t ask you about?</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>No. I think we pretty much covered everything. Such a wonderful interviewer and you did a wonderful job. No, there’s nothing I would like to add.</p>
<p><strong>Weeks <br /></strong>Well, thank you so much.</p>
<p><strong>McClendon<br /></strong>You’re very welcome.</p>
administrative schools
administrative yeoman
administrative yeomans
African Americans
AIMD
Aircraft Intermediate Makers Department
basic training
Blue Lagoon
boot camps
calisthenics
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commanders
CVHP
E-1
E-5
Enlisted Rank 1
Enlisted Rank 5
Fleet Training Group
Germany
Goulds
Grinder
Homestead
Honolulu, Hawaii
Jacksonville
JAG Corps
JROTC
Judge Advocate General's Corps
Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps
Keflavík, Iceland
legal assistants
legalman
legalmen
Legalmen A School
Lone Sailor Memorial Committee
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
mail calls
Mason, Perry
Mays Junior High School
McClendon, Dee
McClendon, Doris
Miami
NAS Keflavík
Naval Air Depot Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Keflavík
Naval Legal Services Detachment
Naval Station Key West
Naval Station Newport
Naval Station Norfolk
Naval Station Pearl Harbor
Naval Training Center Orlando
Navy Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps
Navy Marine Corps Trial Judiciary
Navy Memorial of Central Florida
Newport, Rhode Island
NJROTC
Norfolk, Virginia
NTC Orlando
orlando
paralegals
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
physical fitness
Pine Villa Elementary School
recruit training
Recruit Training Command
recruiters
Rhode Island
San Antonio, Texas
South Dade Senior High School
TAD
temporary additional duty
U. S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Navy
UCF
UM
Uncle Sam
University of Central Florida
University of Miami
USS Arizona
USS Arizona Memorial
USS Bluejacket
VA
VA hospital
veterans
Veterans Health Administration
Virginia
Weeks, Andrew Glen
yeoman school
yeoman schools