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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9a286a6f755d844f675354e955e5642a.pdf
61f2719e5cadc99a144778de63ba9150
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection
Alternative Title
Creative Sanford Collection
Subject
Seminole County (Fla.)
Folk plays
Sanford (Fla.)
Description
<span>Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage <em>Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play</em> community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was </span><em>Touch and Go</em><span>, a play focusing on the people of Sanford and their determination to overcome various obstacles, including the Freeze of 1894-1895, the fall of Sanford's celery industry, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. In the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which is located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street.</span>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida
Princess Theater, Downtown Sanford, Florida
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
<span>"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.</span>
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Thompson, Trish
Román-Toro, Freddie
Interviewee
Black, Patricia Ann
Hardy, Billy
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Patricia Ann Black and Billy Hardy
Alternative Title
Oral History, Black and Hardy
Subject
Sanford, (Fla.)
Education--Florida
Race relations--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history of both Patricia Ann Black (b. 1956) and Billy Hardy (b. 1956). Hardy was born on August 17, 1956, and Black was born 14 days later on August 31. Both grew up at the end of Tenth Street in Sanford, Florida. This oral history interview was conducted by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro.<br /><br />Hardy and Black attended Hopper Elementary School through sixth grade, Lakeview Middle School for seventh grade, Sanford Junior High School for eighth grade, Crooms High School for ninth grade, and Seminole High School through twelfth grade. They talk about what life was like in Sanford during segregation and what happened to make integration possible. Black talks about what her education in New York was like when compared to that in Sanford. Hardy discusses how football helped ameliorate tensions among blacks and whites. He also shares his experiences in the Army. Black and Hardy also discuss their childhood romance and how circumstances changed their relationship. Hardy also speaks about his time in technical school and his passion for cars. Other topics include the differences between attending school in New York and Florida, the Trayvon Martin case, and the sexual abuse of Black as a child.
Type
Text
Source
Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida.
Requires
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida.
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Is Format Of
Digital 22-page transcript of original oral history: Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida.
Coverage
Hopper Academy, Sanford, Florida
Lakeview Middle School, Winter Garden, Florida
Sanford Junior High School, Sanford, Florida
Crooms High School, Sanford, Florida
Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida
Creator
Thompson, Trish
Román-Toro, Freddie
Black, Patricia Ann
Hardy, Billy
Date Created
2013-03
Format
application/pdf
Extent
198 KB
Medium
22-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Trish Thompson, Freddie Román-Toro, Patricia Ann Black, and Billy Hardy.
Rights Holder
Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only.
Accrual Method
Donation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>
Curator
Román-Toro, Freddie
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
External Reference
Gilmore, Henry Francis. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/78907105" target="_blank"><em>A Study of Attitudes of Negro Teachers Toward the Supreme Court Decision and Other Issues of Desegregation in Education</em></a>. Thesis (Ed.D.)--Teachers College, Columbia University, 1957.
Humphrey, Hubert H. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/189150" target="_blank"><em>Integration vs. Segregation</em></a>. New York: Crowell, 1964.
Jenkins, Sallie S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52692084" target="_blank"><em>A Historical Investigation of School Desegregation in Seminole County School District</em></a>. Thesis (EdD.)--University of Central Florida, 2002, 2002.
Kharif, Wali Rashash. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/10501914" target="_blank"><em>The Refinement of Racial Segregation in Florida After the Civil War</em></a>. Thesis (Ph. D.)--Florida State University, 1983, 1983.
Yancy, George, and Janine Jones. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/810119075" target="_blank"><em>Pursuing Trayvon Martin: Historical Contexts and Contemporary Manifestations of Racial Dynamics</em></a>. Lanham: Lexington Boos, 2013.
Transcript
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>How did y’all meet? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We grew up at the end of Tenth Street. Our house was the last house on the street. And it just so happened that my birthday was August 17<sup>th</sup>, 1956 and yours was…</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Mine was August 31<sup>st</sup>, 1956. And we’re like 14 days apart and our mothers carried us at the same time. And we’re at the dead end of East Tenth Street. so I’m at the corner and he’s at the end. It was just us two kids. There were others in the neighborhood, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Not as close as we were.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you went all through school together?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Pretty much.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>What school?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>In elementary school, it was Hopper [Academy]—between Eleventh [Street] and Celery Avenue—and afterwards, it was Lakeview [Middle School] for seventh grade, I think.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yeah. We were 12 at Lakeview and we went to Sanford Junior High [School] at 13.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And where was Sanford Junior then?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>That’s Sanford Middle School now. It’s the same one.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh. It’s on [U.S. Route] 17-92.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yes. The next year we went to Crooms [High School], which became our ninth grade. Then we went to Seminole [High School].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you were there for the integration of—or you were one year after?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. We were in the midst of it.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were in fourth grade when that began to happen, so we kind of had a choice for our fifth grade. Our parents could decide if they wanted to send us to the other school, because they didn’t close Hopper or anything like that.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It just made an opportunity to go to other schools, if they wanted to, but we stayed. It was right around the corner [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We lived one block away. It was on the corner of Eleventh and Bay [Avenue] and we lived on Tenth and Bay so—my parents left the choice up to me, because all my life I’ve always gone to integrated schools. I began school in New York state and…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, so you left?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I would leave every year. My father was a migrant crew leader, but they lived here. They stayed here. My parents’ work was as a migrant to carry people up north to pick apples—to harvest the fruit.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And so you went to school up there every year? So you were just home in summertime?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And I spent all my summers in New York. I began school in New York and I would end it here every school year. From September to November, up to the week before Thanksgiving, I would go to school in New York. Then we’d come down here and I’d finish school. And it used to be June 6<sup>th</sup> that would be the last day of school, and then as we got older it would be June 11<sup>th</sup>. The next day, my mom and I would get on a Greyhound bus and go to Rochester[, New York] to visit with my sisters, and my father would come up around July 5<sup>th</sup>—out to the migrant camp that we lived on.</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>Could you elaborate on the differences between going to school up North and coming to school here?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yes. I sure can. For me, it was more of a freedom. When I’m in New York, I could be myself. I could be all that I thought I could be. I went to school with whites. I started out with whites, so in school, there was no limit to what we were taught we could be—even the black students.</p>
<p>However, down here I had to go to an all-black school, which wasn’t a problem, as far as it being black. I knew I fit in there. However, at a very early age, I learned the difference. It was kind of sad for me, especially by sixth grade, I had a grip on what was going on. I didn’t like when I got to Florida, I had to feel “less than.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>When you were in Florida, did you feel like the teachers didn’t tell you you could be all that you could be? Did the teachers treat you different in the North and South?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No, but there is a difference and I saw the difference. The teachers here did all they could, but you still left school thinking that you could go no higher than a teacher. We weren’t taught about, “You could be a doctor one day.” This is what I remember.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Billy, how about you?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Just like she was saying earlier. we were in that situation and, as far as going to school, that’s what we did. We knew we had to go. we knew we had to have an education, so we went. The thing about Sanford during that time was that we lived over here and they lived over there. In other words, the black part of town was over here, and the white part was over here, and our parents taught us, “You don’t go over there.”</p>
<p>There were many parts of time that—I’ll tell you what, as I came home from service, after 23 years of service, there were parts of town that I had never seen. When I came home, I was right down Melonville [Avenue] and I said, “I’m going over here,” and I did. I rode on through the neighborhoods and I was like…</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>How’d you feel about that? How’d you feel about having that opportunity to go wherever you wanted?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>After being in the service, basically, I was going everywhere I wanted anyway, so when I came home it didn’t matter anymore. [<em>laughs</em>] The door was swung wide open. When I joined the Army, the door was open so wide, it wasn’t black or white anymore. It was green. We were fighting for one purpose and one cause and that was it. Sometimes prejudice situations came up, but it wasn’t a big thing. It was pretty much—it happened. It was controlled. It was dealt with, and that was the end of it. Growing up as a child, I had to stay where my parents told me to stay.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did it make you feel fearful—them telling you that you can’t go there?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It bothered me. It really bothered me, because Sundays—you know, Sunday afternoon—after a Sunday meal, everybody’s been to church. We would go out to the schoolhouse and play football. It was all the guys in the neighborhood and we would have a blast. Gosh, we would just play football all day.</p>
<p>What happened was, some of the guys from the other side of town—the white guys—came and saw us playing football at the schoolhouse—and this is kind of what got the ball running as far as the integration part. We played ball. They played ball. We played ball over here, but they played ball over there, so when they came over and a group of them decided, “Let’s go ask. Let’s go talk,” and we began to talk and things began to change. I think there was more to it than that, but that was one of the changes I saw.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you and your peers—black and white—you made the decision to integrate before your parents?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Our parents didn’t decide for us to integrate. It was the white man. It wasn’t our parents. I believe that all of our black parents would rather have kept us where we were. They feared. They wouldn’t have sent us out to white schools, but as time went on, white people had to make a change, so that’s where it came about. We didn’t care that it was integrated. We were fine just where we were. I chose not to go. They gave us a choice. It was a very easy decision for me. I had been looking at white people all my life, and honestly, I was afraid of the white people down here, because here there was always that segregation, but in New York—so I knew there was a difference.</p>
<p>The white people in the South – he probably could name some white kids that we went to school with. I can’t. There were no relationships with any of the white kids that we went to school with. It’s like…</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>So you were segregated, even when you weren’t segregated is what you’re saying? When segregation started informally, and then later formally, did you trust it? Did you trust that it was for sincere reasons? or did you suspect that there was an agenda behind it?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, I suspected that there was an agenda behind it—that they were being forced to make it happen. They didn’t want us. They didn’t think it was the right time to do this. There was a force behind it.</p>
<p>When I—in fifth grade, in New York state—well, I had heard it while in fourth grade down here—but in fifth grade in New York state, when it was time to move back down here in November, I remember that all the kids thought that I was so smart in school down here. The books that they were learning through, I had already studied and completed in New York.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you were getting second-hand books in Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And in fifth grade, the books were coming from the North. Yes, because when I got here and went to school and for Thanksgiving, the guy next to me, Willie Jones—when he opened his geography book—in the front they have whose name is in it and then they have the school stamp up in the corner. And there it was: “NRW,” which was North Rose-Wolcott [High] School—that I went to. I was just floored, and I went home very upset with my father, because I had asked him, “How do these books get from New York to Florida?” He told me he didn’t know, but in fifth grade I had my own evidence. I saw the book and I just—it was just never a good feeling for me.</p>
<p>That’s where my—I am a big advocate for diversity and I have been ever since then—and with Martin Luther King[, Jr.] and John F. Kennedy—for me, in my life, even with what I was going through, I was going to be what Martin Luther King was talking about—black and white kids holding hands and walking to school together. I was going to show white people that that could be done, because I knew there was a difference between the whites in the South and the whites in the North and you’re all white, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>I want to go back just for a minute. When you said your parents wouldn’t let you go there, did your parents explain why they didn’t want you going in those neighborhoods?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Well, basically they didn’t want us going over there because it was trouble. Some of the experiences—I mean, I got dogs sicced on me. I got to the point where I just got fed up by a lot of stuff and it was—I walked to the store one day, and this guy sicced his dog on me. He had one big one and one little one, and they didn’t bite me, because I guess I was a pretty good size as a kid. I would jump at one, he’d run and the other one would try to get me and I’d jump at him, you know? I tell you what, the hatred that built up in me during that time—I was going to kill the dogs, but they died. I had something on the inside that really bothered me for a long time. and when we left Hopper and went to Lakeview it was like a big melting pot.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>What year would that have been?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were 12. That would have been [19]68. We were 12 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Because the integration of Crooms didn’t happen ‘til 1970.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were 14 at the time. Crooms was in ninth grade. Lakeview was built for the seventh grade—for all of us. Everybody was going to have to go to Lakeview.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We fought every day. every day. They shut the school down once, because we fought so much. I mean, it was lunch time, and here come the buses, and it was a mess. I could honestly say that the class of ’74, from Lakeview all the way up to high school, we fought.</p>
<p>Just to take it even a step further, I played football. My thing was football. I was big in sports, and it got to the point where I just decided, “What are we fighting for? I’m tired of fighting.” Did you see the movie <em>Remember the Titans</em>? We finally came together Homecoming. It took Homecoming in the 11<sup>th</sup> grade for us to come together—actually, in the 12<sup>th</sup> grade. It took Homecoming for us to come together. We were down 7-6, and we got in that huddle, and we looked at each other and decided, “That’s it. We’re going to do this.” That was the first time we joined hands and said, “That’s it. No more.” We were on defense, and I was on defense, because I played both ways. when the game started, I was on the field from then to the time the game was over. Gosh, their quarterback dropped back for a pass and we rushed him hard. And he dropped back and he threw it and one of the quarterbacks—I’ll never forget it, Jimmy Clemens, a white guy, intercepted it. We formed a wall and we wiped out everybody and Jimmy ran in for the touchdown and we won the game.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>But didn’t you all go to the state [championship] that year?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. We didn’t. We didn’t go to state. I’ll tell you what—it took that to bring us together. We really had a time. We really did.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>It wasn’t every black or white person, but it was certain ones that they had been…</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It was certain ones. I’ll give you a good example. I have a good friend named Pat Howard, okay? Pat were[sic] practicing one day, and I was on offense at the time. Pat intercepted the ball, and I hit him pretty hard. We were in the shower and I wasn’t expecting Pat to come up to me. He said, “You tried to kill me out there.” I said, “Coach is wearing us out out there. Nah. I didn’t try to kill you.” I said, “You all right?” He said, “Yeah.” We shook it off. The next day we got ready to line up and the coach blew the whistle. He said, “Hardy? You’re over there on defense next to Howard.” Now we’re on the same side. Now it’s getting good. “Don’t come this way,” I said. “I don’t care who you are—black or white. Don’t come this way.” Pat catches on real quick and he stood back to back with me and said, “Don’t come this way.” Now we’re having fun. Now it’s getting real interesting. We’re great friends right now. As a matter of fact, his mother has a barber shop across the street—a hair salon. Betty Ann?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I don’t know her, but everybody says what a wonderful person she is</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>That’s his mom, so when we get together we hug, fish, and talk. Needless to say, when the wall was torn down—while we were in the pot fighting—there were some friends made in the pot. The wall came down. Doing sports—the wall came down. We realized fighting wasn’t going to do us any good. “You’re here and I’m here. We’ve got to go to the same school. We’re from the same town. Hey, we might as well get along.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Your thought process is that that brought about the change, because you said, “I’m not fighting.” Then you said that to them, and they said that they didn’t want to fight either. You were really a catalyst for the change in your school.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Somebody had to do something.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, I’m glad to meet you, because that was a wonderful thing that you did.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>All that fighting and carrying on—it gets to the point where you’re like, “Come on. We just did this yesterday.” There was a big change. When we graduated. Tears flew. “I might never see this guy anymore.” I knew these guys, so when reunion time comes around, that’s great. We go get a ride, Pat gets drunk, and I have to take him home[<em>laughs</em>]. All of a sudden he’s hugging you and wants to tell you how much he loves you. The true feelings come out then. When I see him in his momma’s shop, it’s like, “Hey! You didn’t call me!” They look at us like we’re going to tear the place apart.</p>
<p>It had to come to that. The wall inside of me fell. and it didn’t just fall, it crumbled. After I joined the service, it really crumbled, because now those I thought were my enemies were now my friends. Now we’re fighting for the same cause. I’m training them and they’re training me. I’ve been to the battlefield.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Which one?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>[Operation] Desert Storm. I rescued so many I can’t even count the number. I was a combat medic and I’d pull them out of holes and hills, and rescued them out of the battlefields. It has been a great life and it ain’t over yet. The best is yet to come.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So when you got out of the service, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I opened up an automotive repair shop in Columbus, Georgia. That’s where I live now. That’s where I’ve been ever since. I work on everybody’s car [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Now, when you were in school, did any of the girls fight?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, he saw more fights than I did. I think that since I went to school in New York, when I got here, I didn’t have to put up a wall, because I understood already, because I understood what was going on. However, as an African-American, I knew where I stood and how far I could go. Which brings me back to the fifth grade and having to—it was an awful feeling to have to feel “less than.” I spent six months knowing that I was more than that. Then you get to a place where you can’t go here and you can’t go there. I think we grew up desiring not to. Which is why when we got old enough and came home, we wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. We wanted to see why we couldn’t go over there. It was to our great disappointment, because there were houses just like ours. Our house looks better than theirs.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay, but what about the fighting? Did they do any fighting?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Oh, yes. There was fighting. However, I would be in New York, so he would see more. The fights were always in the beginning of the school year and definitely at the end of the school year. The last day of school [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>You can’t get suspended. The only thing you can do is go home.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>You’ve been saving up the whole year for the last day of school.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Get even time.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I think we even picked fights. It was the last day of school.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It was wild, I tell you. I think about some of that. There was one in particular. I had a problem with one teacher. This guy—from the moment I walked in his class until the time class was done—did not like me. I didn’t bother with him, but there was this girl that liked me. She was white and she liked me. My thing was, “I can’t do nothing with you. Ain’t no way.” I wasn’t interested, but because she liked me, he was upset about it. She didn’t try to hide it. She liked me and I kept saying, “Look, I can’t do nothing with you.” And he realized what was going on, and one day, he called me outside the classroom and he said, “You are one dirty, stinking, colored boy.” It hit me and I told Dad about it and he said, “Don’t worry about it.” but I still had to deal with this guy</p>
<p>One day in class there was a hand-cranked electrical generator. You can generate electricity with this hand-cranked electrical generator. Now, my dad was a plumber, but he was also a carpenter, and he knew electricity, and he taught me a lot of things. One of the things that he taught me about electricity was if you got in line with the electricity, if you touched it and I’m touching you, then I’m going to get it, okay? He had this electric generator in class and he was trying to prove a point, and the point was that if you touch this—he had us get into a line and hold hands and guess who was last? Guess who was next to last? The young lady. I knew what was going to happen. He was going to crank the generator. He was saying, “Y’all ready?” Everybody was ready. When he made a motion to crank that generator, I snatched my hand out of hers, and her hair stood up on her head, and she said, “Eeeeeee!” [<em>laughs</em>] When she hollered, he looked straight at me. I was standing there looking at him, because I knew. Needless to say, I got an F. I wound up going to summer school and I passed with a B. Stuff like that happened and I couldn’t do anything about it. I had to deal with it.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So what happened to that girl?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>She followed us right on through high school. She was right there. I can’t remember what her name was, but she graduated.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>But she learned her lesson that—she didn’t mess with you again did she?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We went to high school and I would see her and she would—but that was it. I couldn’t. My dad said, “No,” and that was just it. It was taboo and I just didn’t do it. You have to be obedient to your parents, so I didn’t. And with everything that happened to me, I didn’t want anything to do with that. The only thing that got me interested was when they came to the football field and said, “Hey, y’all want to play?” At first, there was a wall. After playing football the first few times, there were a couple of fights and everybody was like, “Come on.” As time went on, you get tired and you say, “Hey, something’s got to give.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson </strong>So what about the girls? They fought too?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Yeah. The girls fought too. You know how girl fights are—tearing clothes off, pulling hair, scratching. [<em>laughs</em>] There was a lot of that too, but when the girls start fighting, a lot of the guys would get in too and they would hold them and keep them from fighting. At the end of school, there weren’t enough people to stop all the fights that broke out though. The only thing you could do was get on the bus and go home. The last bell rang, run to the bus, and go home [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, you both have come out with really wonderful attitudes.</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>How did you guys feel when the Trayvon Martin case happened? How did you act when you heard about that?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I was in Georgia at the time. I was just working in my shop when I found out about it, and I was like, “Man, that thing ain’t going anywhere yet. It’s still there.” I was saying, “Gosh, the only way that this thing is going to leave this city is that some folks just have to die.” How long are we going to be upset with each other? If I get cut, I bleed. If you get cut, you bleed. It’s the same color red. The same thing God did for you, he did it for me. Some folks won’t let it die.</p>
<p>When it happened, I was like, “Wow, here we go again.” Just when you think everything’s good and maybe there’s a chance and we’re doing all right, here we go again. It blew me away. It really hurt, because a lot of people knew me as the guy from Sanford. When I was in school, they used to call me “Sanford.” When Trayvon got killed, everybody was like, “Ain’t you from Sanford? You better look at the news. Something’s going on down there.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you talk to any of your friends down here? What did they say?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Oh, gosh,. You know, you always get some radical friends, because this happened to Grandma and this happened to Granddaddy. The memory is still there too. People say, “I’m going to get in on it too,” and “I’m going to do something about it.” I’m like, “Hey, man. That ain’t the way.” Then the demonstration—I was so glad that they were peaceful. I didn’t want that for Sanford. I didn’t want all that fighting and carrying on. We fought enough.</p>
<p>I’ve got a lot of sisters down here and a lot of kinfolk, and I’m like, “Hey, man. Be peaceful. Let’s let the law work for a change.” I mean, it’s obvious what happened. If the blind man heard what he said to the 9-1-1 operator, I mean, come on. You<a title="">[1]</a> were out to get that young boy and he didn’t do anything but go to the store. Now, I don’t know what had been happening in the past. I don’t know how many break-ins they had had in the past. I don’t condone that kind of stuff. I mean, if there’s a thief, let’s catch him. I don’t want him to break-in mine. I don’t want him to break-in yours either. You work hard and you don’t want anybody breaking in and taking your stuff. but Trayvon wasn’t doing that. This guy was so obsessed that he just had it out for him, and what he did was wrong.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And overboard.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>The 9-1-1 operator telling you, “Wait ‘til the authorities arrive.” And you’re going to take matters into your own hands, and, as far as I’m concerned, you’re guilty. You shot that young boy and he didn’t do anything to you. You messed with him. It could have been your brother, son, or cousin. He came from Miami. I hate that he came to Sanford for this thing to happen to him, but it opened up a lot of eyes in this city—black and white.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>I was so proud of the City of Sanford. They had a thing from the Sheriff’s Department that said that all through that spring there were no reported fights, no break-ins, no attacks, etc. We stood head-and-shoulders above any community that was having all that outside pressure to do something and we didn’t do it. We stood together.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>And my sister called me and told me, “You should have been here. You should have seen the city. Everybody got together and marched.” It did my heart good. I hate what happened to Trayvon, but it sure did bring this city together and it got people to thinking. I mean, it was something deep inside of me.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>When we’re born, that’s something that’s imbedded inside of us from birth. In New York, we say that white babies are born with a backpack full of privileges, and when the black babies are born, the first thing you get is: “You’re black.” If you come from a black parent, this is one of the first things that you’re going to learn. You are Negro. It’s changed several times since then—colored, African-American, black.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>You heard it different. See, I heard it as, “If you’re white, you’re born with a silver spoon in your mouth. If you’re black, you get a slap on the butt.” [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. Now I want to hear your feelings about what happened to Trayvon.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I’m not an avid television watcher. I certainly try to stay away from the news. I prefer the peace, because I can always hear God speaking. When the Trayvon Martin situation happened, I was unaware of it, but I was in the process of relocating from New York to Sanford, and when I got here in February, I didn’t need the TV. All of our friends and family were talking about it.</p>
<p>What happened to me when I got here, as far as Trayvon is concerned, was that I came downtown really just trying to feel Sanford again, because we were allowed to come on First Street. We used to go to the Rexall Drugs.; we couldn’t eat at the counter thingy, but we could go and get our medicines. Then there was the five-and-dime or the 10-cent store.<a title="">[2]</a> So I came downtown and remembered [inaudible] and Manuel[?] Jacobson and, in passing one of those places and seeing that it was open, I went in.</p>
<p>Immediately, Sarah Jacobson—I got pretty upset, because she wanted to know how I felt about it, but she felt that the world is thinking that Sanford is a horrible place now. and since I was from New York, she wanted to know how I felt. I said to her, “Unfortunately, I’ve just come from New York now, but I’ve lived in Sanford all my life, so I can’t agree with you that this is something different. This has just come out, but they have been killing all along.” That’s what I said to her. “This isn’t new. We don’t know how many black people or children someone has killed and they’re out there in the St. Johns River. I do know that, in my lifetime, Trayvon is not the first one. He’s just the one the Lord is using to clean up Sanford.” Cleaning up Sanford from the top. starting with the police department and everything. We got into a heated discussion, because I wouldn’t back down. I’m the African-American. I know what happened, so I’m not going to listen to you tell me based on what your parents—and all of that. I told her, “Sarah, but you’re still white. You don’t get to have a say in stuff like this. Your opinion is not going to matter to us or to the world, because we look at you and we still see white and all the things that conspired in the meantime.”</p>
<p>She was very proud of her mother. Back during that time, when her mother had Manuel[?] Jacobson, she only had white ladies working for her. Somehow, it had come about in the city that they were going to boycott her, because she didn’t have any black employees. Well, one of the ladies that lived in the neighborhood heard about it and she liked Mrs. Jacobson, so when Mrs. Jacobson got to work that morning to open up the store, this lady was waiting outside so she asked her, “Why are you out here? I’m not open yet.” She said, “Well, I came to apply for that job that you’ve got.” She let her in and she said, “Well, you know I can’t hire you.” And she told her what her credentials would have to be before she could hire her and she just kindly told her that they were going to shut her down that day. She said, “I’ve come here to work for you for free as to save your life.” Sarah thought that that was really great, but not on the woman’s part. she thought her mother had done this awesome thing by letting this black lady come in there. I said, “Sarah, they were going to kill your mother.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Kill the business, not kill the mother.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, I don’t see it that way. I don’t see that they were just going to get there and it was going to go over peacefully. I see Mrs. Jacobson in all of that. The black woman really put her life out there to save their livelihood. All Sarah had gotten out of that was that her mother had done this awesome thing for a black woman.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, did the woman keep her job? Did she continue to work for her or did she just work one day for free?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. It was for a while until all of that had blown over. People saw that she had employed a black person. From that, Sarah just took this great pride that her mother—I said, “Well, she may have been loved enough by the blacks that this woman would come up to her, but she didn’t do anything great. She came and opened her shop like normal.” We just kind of had it out about that, and she wanted to know how I felt about the Trayvon thing. “Is Sanford really a bad place?” I said, “Well, it’s the same. Nothing’s changed.” She disagreed with me, and that’s okay. I never expected her to agree with me, but I was really pissed inside, because that brought back something. I could feel the ball and the chain around my feet while I was talking to her.</p>
<p>What happens to us is that we know what to say to you and how to be diplomatic when we say it. However, if your attitude is the same as Sarah’s, then we have to come together and see the truth. This isn’t the first time this has happened in Sanford. We really have to control our anger. We don’t intend to be anger[sic], but it angers you when you’re talking to someone and they’re not listening. and you know they’re not listening by what they keep saying back to you. I just finally got tired of talking to Sarah and I told her I didn’t want to discuss that anymore. Sanford hasn’t changed. She said, “I could see this is really upsetting you.” She was laughing and there was this guy there watching. “What’s wrong with you, woman? Okay. it’s your money. It’s your money that’s still got you down here and you own half these buildings here, so okay.” She said, “Well, Patricia, if you’re going to open up a shop down here, you should go over across the street and talk to the black lady over there to see how she’s doing.” I said, “Why? Sarah, I don’t need that, because whatever they’re doing to her, I don’t need to hear her troubles and I’m not going to let any of you all do anything to me while I’m here. I’m from the North, Sarah.” She said, “I still think you should go over there.” I left there with a thorn. I still feel it, but it’s better now, because I get to say it to white people [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>She was purposely sticking something to me. She knew she was doing it. She was laughing the whole time. That bothered me and it really discouraged me from even being downtown. I’m opening my shop over on Sanford Avenue across 25<sup>th</sup> Street. Sarah’s not invited [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you have other encounters with blacks or whites in Sanford that you knew when you lived here all those years?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>, at this time I’m not going to repeat any of it, because it’s not suitable for the audience. It was negative towards whites. I’m using that word, because I can and it’s true. Sanford as a city has done nothing but grown. It’s the people in Sanford—both black and white. When we speak about different situations, we’re talking about the whites. In our minds—well, they are in charge. Even if we did say “the city of Sanford,” we still mean “whites.” They had lots of opinions, but they were basically what we’ve shared about whites.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Our house was next to the bushes, so there wasn’t anything else back there. There was a big ol’ yard. When I went outside—growing up, I can remember having no shirt on—short pants, barefoot. I can remember wearing a shirt, short pants, barefoot. I can remember standing in the road, because my aunt—she used to keep me, and I would always be outside when a story came on called <em>Search for Tomorrow</em>. Do you remember that?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Yeah [<em>laughs</em>]. Take a look at this white hair.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I remember that. Organ music and everything. And I would go outside, because I didn’t want to be inside the house—no way, no how—because it was on a black-and-white TV. I’d be outside and I’d look over there, because the house across the street was Mr. Jack and Mrs. Blanch’s. They were old folk. No one around was my age except Patricia and—and lived across the alley.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>There were other kids, but this is Tenth Street, but when you get to the stop sign, this is where I am. This is the end of Tenth Street—a dead end, actually. It was just he and I as children over here, so we all played together at some point. But at the end of the day, and even at the beginning of the day, it was he and I. Today, we are best friends.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We got close.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>He can tell you what I looked like. He swears I had ponytails all the time.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>And it wasn’t hard to figure out who I was either. It was like this most of the time, because this is the only kind of haircut you got. [<em>laughs</em>] Some of the old ladies would plait them. They would take one piece of hair and make this long plait and they’d [inaudible] back and one back here—four big plaits and that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I always had plaits.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Now, did she wear little dresses or would she wear shorts?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>She had a little dress on. Every now and then she’d come out with shorts.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, at the age of seven, my mother taught me to sew. At the age of eight, I was doing well enough that, at 10, she bought me my own sewing machine. I would come home from Hopper around third or fourth grade, and all the kids would come out and gather together to go out and play. I would be finishing up my little halter and shorts, and I would go out in an outfit that I just made in 15 minutes. That’s when I would have on shorts. Yeah, but he’s my best friend.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you ever see him play football?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. That was during the time we separated in spirit, due to the other part of my story. We separated even though we were still there.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Talk about the separation.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We didn’t see each other for about 50 years.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We used to walk to school together. Young girls they grow up faster than we do, and they reach a certain point where they lose their mind. It’s just crazy. As young guys we’re like, “What’s the matter with them?” It’s because we don’t have that yet. It was me and you and a whole bunch of girls, and it got to the point where they were way ahead of me. I didn’t have a clue. I realized that something was going on, and at the age that I was, I didn’t want to be a part of it. We used to have to walk to school—talk about no bus. They said, “If you live two miles away, the bus will come.”</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We lived two blocks from the two miles.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>But they told us, “You guys can’t ride the bus,” so we walked. It was a trip. It got to the point where you would see people that lived right around the corner of the school get on the bus. They’d drive from the schoolhouse and drop them off.</p>
<p>We used to walk. And they had gotten to the point where they had begun to walk fast, so me being the only guy, I knew something was different. You start growing up and you start looking in the mirror and you see them and you see yourself and you say, “Nah. I don’t fit. I’m not what they’re looking for.” When they sped up, I slowed down, because I just didn’t—you know, after you’re called “ugly” enough…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>You were shy.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. I went through school being called ugly, big head, big lips, big feet, and all this stuff. You know, after you hear that enough, you kind of think, “You know, I don’t want to deal with that.” Then I would purposely wait until I would see them turn the corner, and then I would walk on to school. When I got to Sanford Middle School, I already had a license. At 13 years old, I had a driver’s license. I had restriction at 13. I had operator’s at 14. All that walking was done once I got my license.</p>
<p>One of my uncles had a car that was in the bushes and I wanted the car. He laughed me up under the porch. He laughed and laughed. And I stood there until he finally said, “You really want that car, don’t you?” He said, “If you could get it out of the bushes, you can have it.” I went and got my dad’s truck and pulled it out of the bushes. I carried it over to my house, and three days later, I drove it over to his house [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>I had my driver’s license, and I taught my aunt, which was his wife—I taught her how to drive, because he’d try, but he’d freak out and holler at her. I taught her how to drive, so he loved me. I was driving his truck and he bought a Cadillac for her, and she was scared of that car. It was so big. I would drive the Cadillac. Woo, man. The car I pulled out of the bushes. I would drive that. It wasn’t a big deal.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. I want to hear a little more about the car. What kind it was and what you did to repair it? That became your life’s calling?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I was fixing [inaudible] and lawnmowers since I was eight years old. I didn’t know why. All I knew was that I could do it. When I got the car—which was a ‘64 Oldsmobile Starfire—it was like a tank. It was cast iron. I was teaching her how to drive one day, and she just tore it all up. We didn’t have any insurance. Nothing wrong with the car. [<em>laughs</em>] The other car was all torn up and the owner said, “You could go. [<em>laughs</em>] It was a light blue ’64 Starfire. I got that thing running.</p>
<p>I carried it home, rose up the hood, and started checking stuff out—spark plugs, distributor, wires, battery. and it didn’t take much. I put some gas in it and fired it up. He just gave up on it, basically. I think about that now that I run an automotive repair shop and think, “It just needed a tune-up.” It cut off on him and he went and pushed it into the bushes.</p>
<p>I was driving in junior high school. So when they took off walking, I rode a bicycle for a while, and then I started walking. It wasn’t a big deal. I would see them walking on the other side of the road.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And you didn’t even offer them a ride?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No [<em>laughs</em>]. I was doing good[sic]. I was satisfied. I drove all the way through high school and everything. I always had something to drive. My dad used to have an old Chevy pickup. I used to drive that. I fixed it up for him. I didn’t realize that God put that gift in me until later—until I accepted him and got saved.</p>
<p>I was reading the Bible—about [King] Solomon. When he was building the [First] Temple, he was trying to figure out, “Who’s going to help me?” Then God told him, “This guy over here knows about bricks, this guy knows about wood, etc.” I got to thinking and realized, “You did that.” [<em>laughs</em>] I thought that I was going to be the mailman after I got out of the army.</p>
<p>I had taken the post office’s<a title="">[3]</a> exam. scored big time. After I came from taking the test, they told me, “You’ve got three interviews already.” I said, “Shoot. I’m going to be the mailman.” I had had about three tickets in the past. I went to Macon and they said, “Oh, you had these a long time ago. Just clear your racket and you’re good. Take the test and everything.” I go to my first interview, and the guy said, “It looks good, but you have too many tickets.” I said, “What do you mean I have ‘too many tickets?’ I talked to these people at Macon and they told me that my driving record is good.” He said, “Man, I can’t use you. You’ve got too many tickets.” I said, “I know what I’m going to do. I’m going back down to Macon to straighten this out.” I went back down to Macon and got another ticket. [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p>Now I’m sitting there in the car, and I’m saying to myself, “Lord, what do you want me to do?” He said, “Go home. Enroll in school.” I went home and went to the schoolhouse and enrolled in school and I started the very next day. That’s what he wanted me to do, and I signed up for automotive technology. They thought that I was the best thing since ice cream. I was just doing what I know, and they were like, “Nobody like you has ever come through here.” I kept saying, “Man, all these mechanics...” They said, “Look, no one like you has ever come through here.” I would get my grades and throw them on the table. When it came time to graduate, the instructor walked up to me and gave me these papers and said, “Fill these out.” I looked at the papers and they said, “National Honors Society.” I said, “You got the wrong person. Wait a minute now. National Honors Society means that I’m going to wear a white gown. You got the wrong person.” The guy said, “No. you haven’t seen your grade point average.” I said, “Well, what is it?” He said, “It’s 4.2.” I said, “4.2? How do you get 4.2?” I built a car, and that’s how I got 4.2.</p>
<p>This young lady and I were in the class, and I guess we were neck-to-neck and it got to the end of the class, and I said, “I’ll know what I’ll do. I’ll just build a car. You know, I’ll just put the engine in, and the transmission and everything.” They said, “You ain’t going to be able to do that.” I looked them and said, “Y’all don’t know.” I built that car and I didn’t realize they were looking at me, because I would go to the end of the hall, where the car was, so I could work on it. But they were looking. Finally, I finished it and I stood there and looked at it. I put the key in and fired it up and it looked like everybody came out of the woodwork and it looked like everybody came out and started clapping and everything. I was like, <em>Wow</em>. [<em>laughs</em>] So I filled out the papers and was part of the National Honors Society.</p>
<p>I was floored. I didn’t think that was me. As they finished with the National Honors Society, they said, “Now we’re going to name the Student of the Year.” And they’re going on about this guy and they’re just talking about how great he is and how good he is and I’m saying to myself, <em>This guy must be—goodness, boy. This guy really did good</em>[sic]. They just kept talking until they said, “The Student of the Year is Billy Hardy.” And I’m sitting there and they’re just clapping and hollering, and I’m sitting there, because it didn’t hit me yet. and somebody said to me, “They just called your name.” I looked around at the instructor and walked up to the podium and said, “Y’all said all that about me?” I was like, <em>Wow</em>. I’ve been doing it ever since he blessed me to open up a shop. I worked at the dealership and a couple of other shops and then he blessed me with my own shop.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Were you in contact with him when he was in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. It really was 50 years. It was 50 years last year since we saw each other. It’s been a year now.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>When I left, I left. I’d come home and ride in and ride out.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I wouldn’t see him though. We still lived in the same places, but we didn’t contact each other. The separation was my doing. I did it because of what was going on in my home. He and I were so close that I knew what he knew. The separation was me not wanting to ruin him by telling him what was happening to me all those years.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. If you want to tell that. We have 14 minutes left.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I’m the one that started to walk ahead. I would look over the corner to see if he had come out. If he hadn’t, I would shoot out so I would be ahead. That was because I decided not to tell him what was going on. He was quiet and I could just tell he wouldn’t have known what to do with that information. This had already been happening to me for six years at that point, and we had played together up until that point, so I had to make a decision. It wasn’t until all these years later that I could tell him why.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>You can tell that if you’d like to.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I had been being molested every week by a family friend in my home or wherever he would drive me to. At one point, Billy and I were playing and he dared me not to do something to him. and I was always hitting on him and everything, because he’s always been a whole lot bigger than me and he dared me this time. He always let me have my way, but this time he was saying, “Oh, you better not do that.” I knew he was serious, but I also knew I was his girl and he was going to let me get away with it. so I did real quickly and I ran across to my yard and he came running after me. The guy that was molesting me was standing there and I ran into the house and as Billy was running to come up behind me, the man hit him. and when I looked back I realized the man was really fixed on me. Billy got up to come after me again, not knowing why this strong man that he didn’t know would punch him like that, and he punched him again. so I knew I had to leave him alone. I made the decision to walk ahead.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did he hurt him?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>He hit me pretty good. I was just a little fella. If I find him again—I don’t know. I remember clearly how he did that, and I couldn’t have done anything, because this guy was swinging some hammers. He knocked me down about three times and the only thing I could do was get up and go home, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I couldn’t look anymore. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know if to tell him that this is what the guy was doing. For me, I let Billy go. I didn’t want to mess him up or leave him thinking he had to save me or something, so I did that. The girls didn’t do that. I was the one that said, “Here comes Billy. Walk a little faster.” The girls didn’t even know why. It was very painful for both of us.</p>
<p>At the age of six, he and I were playing make-believe, and the aunt that he was talking about saw us and called my mother. And at six years old, I got the beating of my life. It was my molester that went and caught me and brought me back, and my mother beat me with a leather belt. and when she stopped swinging me around, I got introduced to shame. The guy was standing there and he watched me get the beating, and from there, he began to touch me and became my friend. So I thought I was saving Billy at that time.</p>
<p>We would still go to school, but we ignored the feelings we had for each other. We were in love at six years old. We went to the store on one of the lawnmowers that he hadn’t fixed yet. I have no idea where I learned any of that from. But for me, the separation was very difficult. because your friend doesn’t know what is going on and I just couldn’t tell him or anybody else.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And for how long did that go on?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>For 11 years. I was 17. By the time. But by that time, our lives had gone in different directions.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>When did you go to the military?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>In ’76. After football season I said, “It’s time to go.”</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I never did try to contact him all these years. I wouldn’t ask his sisters or anybody where he was. I just always prayed to God that one day, I could see him again. and, lo and behold, that was last year. It was always in me, because the day after, he never asked me, “What happened to you?” We never asked each other that. I believe that if he had asked me that, it would have given me a chance to say. But since we didn’t—by the time we’re 12, I’m trying to protect him. I had determined, through all those years, that if my name ever came out of his mouth, I would go.</p>
<p>It was 50 years later, and he was talking to a cousin, and he asked about me and she called me in New York and told me, “Billy was asking about you. He wants your number.” And I asked, “My Billy?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “Billy boy? My Billy boy?” And I started to cry and asked her, “’Tricia, is it my Billy boy?” And she kept saying, “Yes.” Even she knew what it was. She asked, “Do you want me to give him your number?” I said, “No. give me his.” It had been long enough. I called him immediately, and, probably to his annoyance, I called him every day since then [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>My father owned a school bus, a big truck, and a car. The bus was to carry the people up North and the yard was always full. The backyard was where Daddy kept all his vehicles was actually right in his view.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>So I knew when they came from up North. When the trucks and the buses were out there, I knew she was back. We were like Forrest Gump and Jenny [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>This was just wonderful and I’d love to do it again.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> George [Michael] Zimmerman.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Next to the Sanford Atlantic Bank.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> United States Postal Service (USPS).</p>
</div>
</div>
10th Street
11th Street
1st Street
25th Street
African Americans
Army
Bay Avenue
Bigham, Patricia Ann Black
Black, Patricia Ann
car
Celery Avenue
Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play
child molestation
Clemens, Jimmy
Columbus, Georgia
Creative Sanford, Inc.
Crooms Academy
Crooms High School
desegregation
Eleventh Street
First Street
football
Hardy, Bill
Hopper Academy
Howard, Pat
integration
Jacobson, Manuel
Jacobson, Sarah
Jones, Willie
Lakeview Middle School
Martin, Trayvon Benjamin
Mellonville Avenue
migrant worker
miscegenation
National Honor Society
New York
NHS
North Rose Wolcott School
Oldsmobile Starfire
Operation Desert Storm
oral history
race relations
Rexall
Rochester, New York
Roman-Toro, Freddie
Sanford
Sanford Avenue
Sanford Junior High School
Sanford Middle School
school
segregation
Seminole High School
sexual abuse
taboo
Tenth Street
Thompson, Trish
U.S. Route 17-92
veteran
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/90feb8ab39e4a2fec50679cbd193b838.pdf
ea92387fc069eaaebe2a80aee776dd81
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection
Alternative Title
Celery Soup Collection
Subject
Sanford (Fla.)
Community theater--United States
Theater--United States
Description
The <em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em> Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida.
Contributor
Dingle, Cathy Lee
Delgado, Natalie
Fedorka, Drew M.
Ford, Nancy Harris
French, Scot A.
Kelley, Katie
Lee, Luticia Gormley
Maliczowski, Linda Lee
Maples, Marilyn
Miller, Mark
Reisz, Autumn
Thompson, Trish
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida
Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida
Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a>
<span>Dr. </span><a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a><span>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the </span><a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Reisz, Autumn
Miller, Mark
Interviewee
Thompson, Trish
Location
Sanford, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video recording
Duration
45 minutes and 42 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
876kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Trish Thompson
Alternative Title
Oral History, Thompson
Subject
Sanford (Fla.)
Seminole County (Fla.)
Oral histories
Community theater--United States
Theater--United States
Theater managers
Colquitt (Ga.)
Orlando (Fla.)
Race relations--United States
Playwriting
Description
Oral history told by Trish Thompson, Vice President of Creative Sanford, Inc. The interview was conducted by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller on October 11, 2013 and focuses on Thompson's experiences with Creative Sanford and Celery Soup. Other topics include adapting the Swamp Gravy model to Celery Soup, how Creative Sanford and Celery Soup have evolved over time, the oral history interviewing process, partnering with the African-American community, the effects of the George Zimmerman trial on Sanford, adapting oral histories into community plays, goals of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, community involvement and feedback, fundraising and the Celery Ball, production costs, preserving the legacy of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, and maintaining community involvement. <br /><br /><p>Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was <em>Touch and Go</em>, which took several years of planning. The play focused on how the people of Sanford overcame obstacles throughout their history. Some of these stories include the fall of Sanford's celery industry, the Freeze of 1894-1895, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. Richard Geer and Jules Corriere, partners from Community Performance International, were in charge of assessing oral histories, converting them into scenes for the play, and writing original songs. Director Geer also used an all-volunteer cast from the local community, many of which were not experienced actors.</p>
<p>During the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which was located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. As of December 2013, the Executive Board for Creative Sanford included President Brian Casey, Vice President Trish Thompson, Treasurer Linda Hollerbach, Secretary Dr. Annye Refoe, and Founder Jeanine Taylor. The Board of Directors consisted of Cheryl Deming, Juanita Roland, Wendy Wheaton, and Dr. Connie Lester, a professor of history at the University of Central Florida. Honorary Board Members included: Glenda Hood, former Florida Secretary of State and Mayor of Orlando; Valada Flewellyn, a local poet, author, and historian; and Jackie Jones, a local entertainer and arts advocate.</p>
Table Of Contents
00:00 Introduction<br />00:12 Thompson's biographical information<br />00:41 Celery Soup and Creative Sanford, Inc.<br />01:46 Mission of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup<br />02:28 How Celery Soup was founded<br />03:50 How Celery Soup adapted the Swamp Gravy model<br />06:29 How has Creative Sanford and Celery Soup evolved<br />11:36 Conducting oral history interviews<br />13:01 Gaining acceptance from the African-American community<br />16:26 Themes of oral history interviews<br />17:45 How to adapt oral histories into plays<br />20:07 Working with professional playwrights and directors<br />23:41 Using volunteers and employees from the community<br />24:45 Role of the Executive Board<br />26:43 Success in achieving goals<br />30:09 Importance of community involvement in plays<br />34:48 Biggest surprises<br />36:01 Fundraisers and the Celery Ball<br />37:36 Production costs and ticket sales<br />39:33 Preserving the legacy of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup<br />41:26 Maintaining community engagement<br />43:40 Advice for communities creating similar projects<br />45:29 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Trish Thompson. Interview conducted by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller at the <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Offices</a> in Sanford.
In an interview on October 11<sup>th</sup>, 2013, Trish Thompson, current vice president and former president of Creative Sanford, Inc., discusses the inspiration for, creation of, and the development and evolution of Creative Sanford. Thompson also discusses some of the financial and other challenges that Creative Sanford has faced. Creative Sanford is a community organization that collects group oral histories from Sanford residents and uses portions of these interviews to write, produce, and perform plays for the community.
Type
Moving Image
Source
Thompson, Trish. Interviewed by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Offices, Sanford Welcome Center. October 11, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>.
Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>.
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank"><em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em> Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 45 minute and 42 second oral history: Thompson, Trish. Interviewed by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Offices, Sanford Welcome Center. October 11, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida.
Coverage
Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida
Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida
Swamp Gravy, Colquitt, Georgia
Creator
Reisz, Autumn
Miller, Mark
Thompson, Trish
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2013-10-11
Date Modified
2014-01-06
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
287 MB
227 KB
Medium
45-minute and 42-second audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Geography Teacher
Humanities Teacher
Theater Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Autumn Reisz, Mark Miller, and Trish Thompson, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>
Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
"<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>." <em>The Orlando Sentinel</em>, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup.
"<a href="http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go" target="_blank">Young dancer helps put spark in 'Touch and Go'</a>." <em>The Sanford Herald</em>, March 2, 2011. http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go. "About Us." Swamp Gravy: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. http://swampgravy.com/about-us/.
"<a href="http://swampgravy.com/about-us/" target="_blank">About Us</a>." Swamp Grave: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. http://swampgravy.com/about-us/.
<span>Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). </span><a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank"><em>Sanford</em></a><span>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003.</span>
<span>Flewellyn, Valada S. </span><a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank"><em>African Americans of Sanford</em></a><span>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009.</span>
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://youtu.be/nJSla2r-d3g" target="_blank">Oral History of Trish Thompson</a>
Date Copyrighted
2013-10-11
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>My name is Autumn Reisz, and I’m here with Mark Miller, and we are asking the wonderful Trish [Thompson] a few questions today about <em>Celery Soup </em>and Creative Sanford[, Inc]. Um, if you just want to take a second and introduce yourself and we’ll get started on the questions.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. I’m Trish Thompson and I am, um, former president of Creative Sanford for four years now, and vice president, and theater manager. Um, when we do our interviews we tell where we are and what the atmosphere is. So I’ll say we’re in my office and, um, the atmosphere is quiet and we only have an air-conditioner going that could possibly interrupt.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So I’m ready when you are.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Start asking!</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, thanks. Okay, um, what is <em>Celery Soup</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. <em>Celery Soup </em>is <em>Florida’s Folk Life Play</em>. It’s a story that is comprised—a play, excuse me—that is comprised of story gathering which we have done, which is a lost art, and we, uh, get them from the citizens of Seminole County[, Florida] and hire a playwright. They put the stories together and that becomes <em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play </em>and we’ve done three performances, um, with the first one being <em>Touch and Go, </em>the second one being <em>Made - Not Bought, </em>and the third one being <em>Remade - Not Bought. </em>And, um, there—it went over so well, we’re—we’re just—we’re real happy with it and we’re already in—working with the playwright to get another one on the road for next year. So, uh, Creative Sanford is the umbrella organization. We are the producers of <em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, very nice. Um, uh, what is the mission of <em>Celery Soup</em>?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Uh, the mission of Creative Sanford—now you’ve got to know that we are the 501(c)(3) —Creative Sanford is. The, uh, actual production is <em>Celery Soup</em>—that’s the branding—is <em>Celery Soup</em>. It’s always <em>Celery Soup. </em>Every year the name of the play will change, but when they say, “What’s happening with C<em>elery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em>?” You know, then you tell ‘em whatever the new thing is that’s happening. Um, I’d have to read you our mission.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, alright. That’s fine. No, that was excellent.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah. So, um, how did the idea for <em>Celery Soup </em>develop?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay, the idea for, um, <em>Celery Soup </em>was, through our, um, person—the—the people that we knew in Colquitt, Georgia. And so Jeanine Taylor, our founder, went up there, met the people, saw the show and, um, and decided to bring it to Sanford when she moved her, uh, business here. And it was to help the economy and, uh, that was the first thought was that, you know, it was going to be an economic driver, bring people to Sanford, and of course help her business and other businesses in town. And she got the mayor and other people interested and they went up, saw the show, said, “Yes. This would be great for Sanford,” and that’s how it came to be in Sanford.</p>
<p>Then we spent three hard years with interviewing people and getting the community to understand what we do. We hired, uh, uh, <em>Celery Soup</em>—I mean, excuse me, <em>Swamp Gravy</em>—to come to Sanford and teach us how to do the interviews. Uh, they gave us the booklet that we use and, uh—just on a side note—uh, Freddie [Roman-Toro] who is—was our intern this spring, he rewrote it and updated it and got it where, um, it would fit in more with the RICHES [Regional Initiative for Collecting the History, Experiences, and Stories of Central Florida] Mosaic Interface that we’re gonna be using with UCF [University of Central Florida]. [<em>phone rings</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Alright. How did you change the <em>Swamp Gravy </em>model to fit the needs of Sanford?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>You know, that’s really interesting, because they’re—was that your question?</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>No. That’s not.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Alright.[<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>But Mark [Miller] really liked it.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Yes. Okay. Now when you’re interviewing, you know, you might not want the subject to know that you [<em>laughs</em>]—so you’re gonna learn along with me, um, the um—we been—what was the question again? I’m sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, how did you change the S<em>wamp Gravy </em>model…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, okay.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>To fit Sanford’s needs?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Thompson<br /></strong><em>Swamp Gravy’s </em>model—2,000 people—very small town, very isolated—and they had to draw from churches and, uh, they went way outside the area to bring people in and they had to bus them in to, uh, to come to the play. And everyone in the community was involved in it, because, you know, 2,000 people and you’re puttin’ on a production with a hundred people, you know, that’s—that’s almost everybody in the town, at one point or another, has been in the play.</p>
<p class="Default">So for us, we’re in Central Florida. we compete with [Walt] Disney [World], the I[nterstate-4 corridor. um, we wanted to reach out to The Villages. that’s very difficult to reach out to The Villages, because they already have so much, um, entertainment and what have you that it’s right there at their fingertips. And they don’t come to Orlando very much. We found that out through the United Arts [of Central Florida], uh, president at that time, Margot Knight, that it was very tough to get The Villages, and so we’ve made so inroads into that and we do have one person who brings people in from there, but it’s, you know—that is, —that is harder.</p>
<p class="Default">For us, we’re more sophisticated. Um, the area there was—you could do just about anything for, you know, nothing, because there were no regulations and no, you know—the city didn’t make ‘em do this and that. So when we started, we had a lot of legal and financial, um, and city rules and regulations that we had to comply with. And I would suggest to anybody who is gonna to do something like this: do not cut corners on your legal and your—those kind of responsibilities in— in getting your, um, work-up with your city, so that your—you know, you’re not gonna get, quote, “a free ride,” but, you know, you’ll have a good working relationship with the city, if you comply with what they want done. So…</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, how has how has Creative Sanford and <em>Celery Soup</em>—how has it evolved from when you first started the program?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh my goodness. It has really evolved. When we first started we wanted to put on a show, Okay? One production a year and we were gonna—oh, someone was gonna give us a building. We’ve gotten a whole big song and dance of, you know, where you were gonna put it on. Well, we couldn’t find any place that would allow us to put it on. And the one theater that was in town, it was: number one, 500 seats 450 to 500 seats. And it had the fourth wall, which of course we didn’t know anything about, but it—the fourth wall was an invisible wall between the audience and the cast. and so, um, the community theater, one of the things that they require is that it is community involved and, you know, so it’s, um—it’s theater in the three-quarter is what we have. We don’t—we ended up renting a space.</p>
<p class="Default">So number one, we have rent now and it’s not a free space. And so when we rented it, we had to sign a lease. And when we signed a lease, that changed—I mean, it was like the before and the after. The before lease and after lease. [<em>laughs</em>] Because then we became a theater, and the theater has to support itself. So you can’t have one play in the fall and the spring maybe—two plays—and maintain a theater. You know you got your rental. You got all your utilities you’ve got to pay. So we had to have other shows.</p>
<p class="Default">So we first started with a group that wanted to have a home and they were called “The Princess Players.” And so they put on five performances during the year and, you know, we produced them. And so we did make money through that and were able to pay the rent, but so now after three years, since 2010, we made another big leap in that we realize that the theater was as important as <em>Celery Soup</em>. If we don’t have the theater, we’re in the same boat as everybody else, with searchin’ for a place to put your thing on and it’s gonna cost you a tremendous amount of money to be that little person who’s begging for a place to have a show. And after being in the theater, we didn’t want to go back to being in a gymnasium or someplace like that.</p>
<p class="Default">So we co-op the theater and we have three organizations that co-op with us and they own the theater for those periods of time. So that helps pay the rent. Phew, there’s something here. So that pays, you know—that gets our rent paid.</p>
<p class="Default">So then as time goes on, in the next year or two, we will be able to do some of the other things in our mission that we are not able to do now and, uh, the—the quantity that we would like to do and that helps other organizations that don’t have money that give them a place to showcase their art. Um, we’ve done art openings. We’ve done, uh, concerts. we’ve done, uh, with the Humanities Council—with the <em>Dreamers and Schemers </em>and they’ve asked us to come back in 2014 and do it again—standing room only—uh, we do <em>The Holocaust </em>with the Holocaust and Interfaith Council. So we’re making all these organizations that are becoming partners with us—that they’re doin’ it this year, that maybe next year, you know. and we’ll find places for ‘em to rent the theater to them for a minimal amount of money—cover the expenses—and they’re able to put something on and we’re able to provide the community with different kind[sic] of art— all different types of art.</p>
<p class="Default">So we’re doin’ <em>Celery Soup </em>now. They’ll be doin’, uh, <em>Sleeping Beauty </em>and <em>Grease</em>, <em>and</em> the co-op people are doin’ these things. One of them is a school, so they do things through the summer. and then in August, I believe it is, we’re goin’ to do <em>Spam-A-Lot. </em>So it will be our first time to do, um—produce a Broadway show. And it’s a Tony Award-winning and that’s what we want to do. So we’d like to do <em>Spam-A-Lot </em>one year and whatever the next one, as soon as the rights open up. We want to do the most recent, like I believe next year <em>Wicked</em>, off-Broadway—you know, from Broadway—will be open.</p>
<p class="Default">So this is a goal that we want to bring quality entertainment that people can afford to go to Wash—New York [City, New York] or Washington[, D.C.] or wherever. They can see really quality work, right here in Seminole County. They don’t have to go to Orlando. They don’t have to go to the arena, you know, and all that kinda thing.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Excellent. Um, so how do you collect the stories for the plays?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, we advertised. We had the Swamp Gravy Institute come down and we had a whole group of people come in and learn how to do the interviews. and then they’d ask their friends, “Can I interview you?” So it started out friends of the people who are to interview and moved out from there. We went, um, Serenity Towers, which at that time was called Bram Towers, and we did practice interviews with the older ladies and gentlemen and—and, uh, the—it was kind of a learning experience for everyone. And then we also, um, then put ads in the paper.</p>
<p class="Default">And when we first got started we did a thing called, uh, <em>Talks from the Stalks</em>, is what we called it—like a stalk of celery. And, uh, the newspaper<a title="">[1]</a> was nice enough that we would put in little excerpts from interviews that we’d done. And so they’d do a little blurb—we’d hopefully have a picture of the person that spoke—and then a little piece out of their story. And then it would be the quote advertisement call to tell your story. So that’s how— that’s how we got started, with just grass-roots, asking your friends, and moving out into the community.</p>
<p class="Default">And the most difficult part was being accepted by the black community, because there was a lot of, um, [<em>sighs</em>] negativity in both directions, in that, um, the black community was told that we were exploiting them by some people, who, for some reason didn’t understand what we were doin’. There’s a fly in here<em>. </em>Um, and then there was some on the other side that didn’t know how to relate to the black community. So it was a give-and-take and over the last six years.</p>
<p class="Default">This year we were invited to Hopper Academy. Um, this was the first year we had been so lucky to have two reunions” The Hopper [Academy] and then the Crooms Academy [of Information Technology] we’re going to do in December. So that’s the, that’s a real plus for us to be able to have made the inroads into the black community—that they trust us.</p>
<p class="Default">And, uh, if you know anything about Sanford, we’ve just gone through an awful trial<a title="">[2]</a> that brought up a lot of really bad memories from a lot of people—black and white. And, uh, it’s just, uh— it’s just a miracle that we’re such a good community that we overcame the outside pressures and didn’t succumb to anything that they wanted to [<em>laughs</em>]—they wanted us to have a riot or something. I don’t know what the media wanted, but, uh, they didn’t get it, because we’re not that kind of a town. We’re a good town. We’re—we’re working together.</p>
<p class="Default">And I think we have helped over the last six years to help the community realize that, you know, all that outside stuff that made ‘em appreciate that we really are a closely knit community, much closer than was realized and yet there’s still a lot of—a lot of energy and a lot of negativity that—that is like post-traumatic stress disorder. You know, it’s—you think of the worst thing that ever happened you think—you in your life. It flashes [<em>snaps</em>] to you immediately. You know exactly was the worst thing in your mind that ever happened to you. And that may be, this—this—this trial just triggered. That throwback to that worst feeling of inadequacy and—and negativity that they ever had. So, you know, we—we have to appreciate that and realize it.</p>
<p class="Default">And I’ve talked to people who have said, “Oh, why don’t they just get over it?” And I say, “What’s the worst thing that ever happened to you?” “Oh, that I lost my child,” or, you know—I mean that’s horrific. And I say, “Well, get over it.” Whoa, did they get mad at me? But, I say, you know, you’ve got to understand—and it was somebody that wanted to interview, but they didn’t have the empathy or the sympathy or the—the feelings that were needed to be an interviewer in this organization. So, when you’re doin’ this, I’d say to anybody: be sure that the people who are interviewers have an open mind and/or can keep their feelings under—you know, under the radar—under the cover.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, that brings up a question of when you’re asking the stories, what sort of themes—you ask for themes? Or how do you go about…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, we’re…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Pitching the story.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>We started with a theme that was, uh, perseverance. And this was in 2010, and so our first story was about, uh, how Sanford and the community had overcome all sorts of natural, um, disasters. We had floods, and we had, uh, fires, and we had—the weather froze—and, I mean, uh, the weather was very cold and the fruit and vegetables and the trees froze. You know, so it changed the whole economy of things. The, uh, Navy left Sanford. Big, big, big, big problem. and Sanford’s overcome and actually gotten better from all the different changes that have happened. So that was what—it was perseverance, and we used as a sub thing, openin’ a can of worms [<em>laughs</em>]. So we—we just—“So what is,” you know, “What were you mad about? What did you not like? What did—what did ya get over on somebody?” You know, we had all kinds of questions that we tried to pull out of people that were deeper than just—“Who are you? Where did— where did you go to school and what do you do? “</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, you did something like, uh, what you’re, um, talking about, perseverance and…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>You know, can of worms. How do you integrate that into the play?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, that is what you have your playwright for. Now we’re, uh, setting up now and working with UCF with this, um—we have, um—May, um—what do ya call ‘em? With, uh, the keyword—keywords. So it might be perseverance. It might be love. It might be hate. it might be alligators or animals, or, you know—so, you’ll have keywords and the, um—um, the—the writers can key in that word, and then up comes the transcription from the play of that—of that—that might fit that story—may might fit that thing.</p>
<p class="Default">So, uh, next year’s going to be a comedy. and so we’re, you know—we’re gonna have a theme that’s going to be outta—we don’t know yet—outta, uh—that hadn’t been decided. Uh, that’s how you do it is you decide on your theme and you go to your playwright and say, “I want you to write about this theme and here are your keywords and you can go to all these different” —so maybe when we do an interview—the interview usually lasts an hour and a half, um—in that hour and a half, you might get 10 good stories or 10 stories, you know. It depends on how fast they talk or, you know, what—what you could pull out of ‘em. Some of ‘em in an hour you won’t get one that’s worth anything. But, uh, it might be able to use in backgrounds somewhere. And some of ‘em you could use every single story in, you know—that they tell. They’re all just—oh my gosh. This is great.</p>
<p class="Default">And we have several of those families that have done that and one is Uncle Dieter and one is Mr. [Elmer] Baggs. Both of them have just fabulous stories that they tell and we’ve used them in all of our productions. We’ve used stories from them and we go back, like you said—we go back to them to, you know, harvest more stories from them and ask different questions and—you know. Some of ‘em are just so funny. You know, that you, you forget that you’ve to get in to some of these power depth things too.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Have you encountered any challenges working with a playwright that may or may not be from the Sanford area? is there any challenge to that?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>We—yes. We have had that challenge. Um, the one that the professional group that we used, they came and taught us a lot, and they were not from our area. So they had to do a lot of historical research at the libraries and, um, the historic society, so they got a lot of input there. Though it was very good for them, but also they would say things that we would say, uh, “Stop. We can’t use that. We—this—it’s not correct.” It’s, you know—or it’s too—it’s still too politically, um, explosive. That—that we don’t want to bring that to our town at this point. Later we’ll—we’ll delve into that, but right now we can’t do that.</p>
<p>And, uh, and one of ‘em is about—and it—it—it’s about, uh, ah, the [Mayfair] Country Club. And the—the playwright wanted to put that in there and I said, “We cannot put this in there. They are going to court. This is a lawsuit. It has not been [<em>laughs</em>]—you know, we can’t put something that’s an ongoing thing that maybe somebody would be a juror on that trial that saw our view of this. No, no, no, no, no. we can’t do that.” So it’s a perfect—it’s a perfect example of— of havin’ to help, you know, keep things in the right frame that we want to.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Have you, um, always used, uh, a playwright to produce your plays and a professional director and have you guys done any of that on your own?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>We’re in the process now of doing that and we hired—we’ve hired, um, people who have professional—have had professional experience, but are for—we only use the professionals the first time, ‘cause that was like $125,000 and so we had to raise money for a long time to—to get that together. And that was the year that we signed the contract with the theater. So, you know, all of this and financial part of it all mixes together.</p>
<p>And you realize, once you start this, you are a theater. You know, you’re not just—unless you’re going to keep it on a low key, not very large, but if you want to go big, you’re going to have to be a theater. And we want to go big. We’ve—want to go to the [John F.] Kennedy Center [for Performing Arts] in—in, Washington. We’re already set to be at the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center. We’re working with Central Florida, uh, uh, Community Arts and they’re gonna do a Christmas that’s gonna be the same show, or similar to the same show, that they put on at Christmas at Disney. So it’s the candlelight, uh, service that you pay 80-90 dollars for and you’ll pay 10-20-15, you know, for this show here. Because we want community to be able to see what we’re doing. And, and, uh, that is—that’s part of our mission, to bring the community together.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, so the professional—that’s the direction that you guys are going to go in going forward is using, uh, not necessarily, um, director per se, but definitely a professional playwright and things like that? you going to keep that?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, no. we’ve brought the community on the playwright too. As a matter of fact, um, even I helped write [<em>laughs</em>] a little bit of the play that we’re doing right now. So I can’t call myself—I call myself an editor, not a playwright.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, that was one of the questions, that, um, regarding—do you have any employees?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>No. we’re—not yet.</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>You were talking about having some professionals...</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Uh uh.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So, um, you hire people as you need them? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>The way they—yes. and the way that works, um, is that they would get a stipend. Um, you would be for, um, a director, you might pay 750-1000 dollars, something like that. It’s not big money. And they have to work for six or eight weeks before the show to get it ready. I mean, that’s a lot of work for, you know, that kind of money.</p>
<p>Uh, but a lot of community theater only pays the music director. Everybody else is volunteer. And we have thousands and thousands hours of volunteer hours, because we have no paid staff. We do have some[sic] paid artist, but not any paid staff. And nobody and—none of the actors are paid.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So you draw your expertise from the community also?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Right. and that is a lucky thing that we have. That we have so much theater and, um, entertainment in Central Florida, and people who want to do theater. And they’re tied into day to day jobs that, um, you know, stifle their creative—and, and they do it for free. They do it for the love of theater.</p>
<p>Which I didn’t understand. I’m a businessperson. I came out of, you know, owning my own business for many, many years and my husbands a, uh, CPA [Certified Public Account] and ran an insurance company. And, oh my gosh. You know, everything is the bottom line kiddo [<em>laughs</em>]. So that’s kinda where I fit in. And t’s a little difficult for me to learn and having to learn. And most of the other people on the [Executive] Board are businesspeople. And they—it’s—it’s—it’s somethin’ to learn how to do this.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what—you brought up the board. What role does that—the board play?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Uh, the board makes the decisions on where the money goes, and—and where the fundraisers and, um—we do all the—all the grunt work that has to be done. We do the marketing. We do the, uh, advertising. We do the, uh, um—um, the Celery Ball, which is our main fundraiser.</p>
<p>We reach out to all community to—to get the word out and speak to groups and make connections wherever we can with the politicians, in, uh, um—you know, just have to reach out to every single facet. And it’s—it’s—it’s a miracle. It’s wonderful. It is wonderful. And I love working this class that’s a very diverse class, with older, younger, men, women. It’s great. You know, I going to learn so much from you all [nods].</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>How, um, how is—how is Creative Sanford and <em>Celery Soup</em>, how have—how have you been successful in achieving your goals?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, we’ve put on three shows. Yes. We’ve brought in community who have done playwright—playwriting—who have done music, who have done directing, that are from the community, that were paid a small stip—small stipend. And, um, you know, this is—this is the goal. is to bring the community together. We’ve brought people together who would have never have met.</p>
<p>Um, one lady who’s a very prominent, uh, poet, and she was in our show and she helped write a little bit of it. And, um, she was afraid of one the—of one of the people in the show. It was a young black guy and she was an older black lady, but she wasn’t raised in any of the—so she had a whole generational plus economic—there wasn’t a reason to be afraid of this young person. But she was—she was fearful. And so she really learned. And the—and the young person learned too. How to be more respectful and so that’s—that’s a goal is—you know, I think people call it bullying and all of that, but it’s really—it’s learning how to love each other and work with each other, and um, and blend into to, uh, international, you know, family.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>You mentioned earlier that there was a couple of things that, um, you hadn’t achieved. You know, you want to do more outreach with other community groups and things like that?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Is there anything else you—that Creative Sanford would like to do, but you haven’t been able to do yet?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, yes. We’d like to, um—we’d like to have a performing arts center. and we have talked to, uh, Congressman [John L.] Mica about that. um, preliminary, stages, of maybe having an arts council—not an arts council. We have the Seminole Cultural Arts Council, but um, to work with them with Creative Sanford to have our theater in a building, to have uh, um, uh, galleries in the theater, and have gift shops, and have, uh, study areas, and training areas, and studios. I mean, we’ve got a big group of ideas and that would—that would involve all the arts. And that’s one of the things that, um, is real—real difficult to get off the ground on no money. So that’s where you’re going to look for federal grants and that’s where you need your politicians to help you. And Seminole Cultural Arts Council and ourselves are working together to, uh, work with Congressman Mica and—and see if we can get one in Seminole County. You know, there’s a lot people, there’s a lot of money in Seminole County. It’s all going south. So we want to bring some of it back to Seminole County and let them realize that, not only are we a bedroom place, but also a great place to—to just enjoy life and make your whole—whole area more livable.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, why is it important—in particular in Sanford, of course—but why is it important that these plays are produced by the community for the community?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, that goes right back to, um, people learning each other, meeting each other, uh, getting together, and becoming friends and, um, meshing as a team. And they go out when—when we have done this, um, the group says, “Hey, I know a place that we need to go.” So emails go back and then we just get together, we go out, maybe put on a performance or—not a whole show—but do vignettes, maybe do a little bit of Uncle Dieter maybe do a little bit of, um, Elmer Bags. Just, you know, somethin’ funny or, er, poignant, or somethin’ like that.</p>
<p>We’ve done one called <em>Generations</em>,where the woman tells the story of how her family came from Africa and, you know, where they landed, and you know, how her history came about, and now she’s the last one in her line. And she says—at the end, she says, “Who will remember me? Will you?” And it just—oh, it just gives me cold chills right now. It’s just—it just tells people—opens their eyes and minds and hearts to, you know, what’s going on in the rest of world and how other people are feeling and, um, we always want to do more of that.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Uh, you had mentioned earlier that—that the—that Creative Sanford and <em>Celery Soup </em>in particular had been really well received by the community?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, how have you integrated community feedback into your projects and the things that you’re doing, besides just the interviews?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, that is—that is one of the big things that we do. When we have the play and getting it ready, okay? We have a day, that we have—invite all the community to come to the theater and we do a run through of the play. And if they have feedback, “Oh that—that story wasn’t there. That story is over on Eleventh Street.” “Oh, this is wrong,” or “I don’t like this,” or, oh—they don’t laugh or, you know, they think something’s offensive. And we take that all into consideration. We’re very much attuned to what—it’s like what we tell the playwrights, sometimes we say, “Hey. Something we already know politically you can’t do that. They’re already in a—they’re already in a lawsuit.” But it is the same thing with other peoples’ feelings. And, um, we had one lady who got up and said she loved this part and the other lady got up and said that, “This isn’t the way it was where I was.” And it was complete opposite, so it was like, “Okay. Well, we’ll tell this story here and let’s interview you and get your story for the next time.”</p>
<p>So it’s—you know, we’re going to tell our stories as much as we can, but we want to—we want to be fair to everybody, but that is what we do. That’s part of the community—that we learned from the professionals. It’s that you have—when you start your cast, you—you have a day that you talk about, um, being compassionate and—and working with your other cast members and all of that sort of thing. And, um, that kind the way it starts and then, you know, we get this real tight group going and people know you now.</p>
<p>For me, see, I am known as the “ticket lady,” because I was always down there working the tickets and, you know, all this. They didn’t know I was president. they didn’t care who I was. I was the ticket lady. That’s the one they saw every night. But now they’re seeing me in a completely different role, because I’m in the play. And I have just a small—I have three small parts, but, you know, one of ‘em is absolutely just as silly as all get out and so they’re seeing, “Oh, the ticket lady does something besides” [<em>laughs</em>], you know, “sell the tickets. She might have some other good things that she can do.” So they’re seeing me in a different light and I think we see everybody in a different light. That—that whatever they perceive themselves to be, we’re seeing them in a different, more human light.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well you’ve been with the project from the beginning, um…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Just about.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what—what are your biggest surprises about this?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, all of it. All of it. I had no idea how much work it was gonna be, how much fun it was gonna be, how enlightening it was gonna be. It’s just been—it’s just—it’s been like [<em>sighs</em>] renewed youth of somethin’. You know, you’ve thought,<em> Oh, well, my identity is a restaurant owner. This—I’m the Rib Ranch</em>, you know. Well then you retire and I got all involved in this and—and, uh, now I feel like, “Well, hey. This, this is rejuvenated me.” and, you know, put your brain in gear again and you have all these new goals, because I’d already completed all my goals. I was the best restaurant that sold barbeque in Seminole County and, you know, where do you go from there? So this was a new goal and set new things. So age never matters. Grandma Moses became famous in her 80s, so maybe I’ll become famous in my 70s [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Ah, what are some of the challenges in creating and maintaining a project like <em>Celery Soup</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Thompso<br /></strong>Financial. There you go. That’s the bottom line. That’s the big problem, is getting’ the money. Yup.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, um, you mentioned fundraisers.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And you have a Celery Ball.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Do you want to describe that a little bit and some of the other fundraisers?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. What we’ve done—and, of course, this has evolved too. When we first started we had the Celery Ball, we had a king and queen. And the king and queen raised money—the king and queen candidates raised money—and, um, the first year we raised over $30,000. The second year about $30,000. The third year about $25,000. And the fourth year $10,000. Okay. economy. There you go. The economy’s going down, people didn’t have money to do all this, so that next year it was—we had a lot of silent auctions. We did not have, and we’re not having this year, a king and queen.</p>
<p>So we feel like—okay. We’ve kind of burned that out. it’s got a life of about four years and then you’ve got to go to something else. So we’ve moved the play—we’ve moved it to a different location. It’s gonna be a <em>The Great Gatsby </em>themed, so it’s gonna to be ‘20s-‘30s. Gonna be a lotta fun and, uh, um—and we have silent auction and trips and things like that, that we’re gonna be putting out to—to raise money instead of having—it was real easy when you had kings and queens and they’re all out having fundraisers and, you know, they’re doing all the work and you’re raking in the money. But it doesn’t work that way. It doesn’t work that way for the whole thing.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Alright, um…</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>[inaudible]</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah, uh, what are, um, some of your production costs? And in that the price of your tickets and stuff?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Mmhmm. okay. We price our tickets at $15—well 20 and 18 at first—and then we moved it down to 15 and 12. And, ah—again, it’s to meet the mission of bringing things and the quality—best quality we can—to the community. And these are bad times. I don’t know how you guys are seeing it, but, you know, everybody is working one or two, you know—working extra jobs. Still not, you know, cuttin’ it with the way things are going with businesses, where they’re cutting people’s hours back. “Oh, we’re only going to give you 26 and we’re never gonna give you more than 32, so you can’t be a full-time employee, so we won’t have to pay you benefits.” Da, da, da, da, da.</p>
<p>So we look at all of that and, uh, we decided on our price, and because we’re not usin’ the professionals. We’re back—we give just the small stipend—we do a production, is about 10,000, mkay? Is what it costs us to put on a production. and a lot of it is borrowing from different places in the community. Oh, and now that we’re a co-op we can say, “Oh, do you have some lights we can borrow?” Whereas we may have had to spend 10,000 on lights the first year, which we did. We had to rent ‘em. That, you know, now we can get lights and—as a matter of fact, we just had two people who gave us lights just in the last week. So, you know, we’re getting the lights—we don’t still have as much lighting as we need, and that’s one of the things that we’ll get a grant to help us get lighting and sound equipment and, you know, these kinds of things that we need. But, um, yeah. that’s it. Financial.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, much of what <em>Celery Soup </em>has been doing is preserving the history of and the stories of Sanford.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>How are you preserving the legacy of <em>Celery Soup </em>and Creative Sanford itself?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, we have two ways. Uh, Alicia [Clarke] at the, um, Sanford Museum has asked us for copies of everything. So they’re going to archive the beginnings and all of our—as time goes by, they’ll do it. And so I’m keeping double records of, you know, two pieces of paper and so we’ll keep one and give one to her. And of course, we’re expecting that a lot of our archiving is going to go up on RICHES, so we’ll have that as part of our archival process.</p>
<p>And we, um—you have to have a disaster program, you know, and so we have disaster programs and we have things backed up with—on the flash drives—or we have them backed up on secondary computers. We have, um, fireproof safes that we keep things in. and we keep things off, um—out of the office. I don’t—I can’t think of what the word is. but somewhere else that, um, we keep things—the financial things and the historic things—um, backed up. So that’s how we have to do it. And—and the things like this, I’m really happy that if anything happened to this little dress, um—this was the dress that was worn by the little two and a half year old little girl, who was in our very first production—Kalayla. and, um, so definitely want pictures of that. And that’s—that’s an archival thing. If this rotted, we wouldn’t have it. So…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. um, how do you keep the community engaged in <em>Celery Soup</em>, uh, especially long-term?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>That’s a problem. You have to keep moving and especially when we have to look two ways: the economy and wearing yourself out, you know, with asking people over and over again for help. And, uh— so the engagement—we just try to broaden and not to go back to the same wells every time. That if there’s 54,000 people in this town, and if 2,000 people are helping us, we need to get to the next 2,000 and the next 2,000, and the next 2,000. And we’ve reached, um,—as a matter of fact, just last week we were given a check for $250 from an organization that had never helped us before. So here we are. We’re getting into that outer ring and so we’ll just, slowly but surely, we’re just gonna reach out all through the whole area and get some of these people.</p>
<p>Mercedes[-Benz] helped us and then they kind of backed—backed away with what they were doing and so we’re going to different places to make this thing work. And we’re on David Maus’ [Toyota’s] jumbo-tron out there, which we’ve never been on there before and so, you know, that’s a first for us. So we just keep moving ou.t and we’ve never had any kind of TV advertising or never had any TV that supported us, and so this year, uh—this 2014, we’re really gonna put a push on getting sponsors of, um, in kind or whatever we can get from the, uh, major stations. We’ve had radio. We’ve had, um, um, public and NCR<a title="">[3]</a> and public broadcasting, but we want to get more into the mainstream too.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Um, I know that we are getting tight on time, so we have one last question that we’d like to ask you, before we release you.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. Mkay.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Uh, but what advice would you give another community thinking about beginning a similar project?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>The advice that I would give them is to contact everybody that has ever done one that you can find and ask them the questions that you’re asking. How do you do it? How much did it cost? We had a group that came in and asked us those questions and we answered them and, uh, and it was very interesting. We had—they came down and visited us and it was a very interesting time.</p>
<p>But, um, whatever the people tell you it’s going to cost, figure it’s going to cost at least 50 percent or a third to 50 percent more, okay? It’s much more expensive than you think it’s gonna be. Uh, some people think, “Oh, well everything be given to us.” and that’s what we were told” Oh, people would just reach out to you and they’re gonna give you this and they’re gonna give—let me tell ya. in a big market like this, they don’t do that. Maybe in very small towns, yes. You can get that kind of immediate help, but in a big, big area like we’re in it’s not the same process. And that’s where we differ with <em>Swamp Gravy </em>too, in that, you know, we have a very different financial field back and forth there.</p>
<p>So, yeah. It’s, um— it is—it’s mainly financial, legal. Be sure if you write contracts, if you go with professionals that, you know, you get a good tight that you’re protected and safe. And we went to an entertainment attorney and had her look over the contract and make changes and things to protect us a little bit better. So those are the things that you’ve got to have.</p>
<p><strong>Reisz<br /></strong>Well thank you very, very much. We greatly appreciate it. Um, we really appreciate it. And then we’ll probably come up with some other questions. If you think we missed anything, let us know. We’d be happy to ask about it.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And we…</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> <em>The Sanford Herald</em>.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> <em>State of Florida v. George Zimmerman</em>.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: National Public Radio (NPR).</p>
</div>
</div>
11th Street
1st Street
501(c)(3)
Bagg, Elmer
Baggs
Bram Towers
Broadway
Celery Ball
Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play
Central Florida
Central Florida Community Arts
Clarke, Alicia
Colquitt, Georgia
community theater
Creative Sanford, Inc.
Crooms Academy of Information Technology
David Maus Toyota
Disney
Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center
Dreamers and Schemers
Eleventh Street
First Street
fourth wall
Generations
Grandma Moses
Grease
Great Gatsby
Holocaust and Interfaith Council
Hopper Academy
Humanities Council
I-4
Interstate-4
John F. Kennedy Center for Performing Arts
Kalayla
Knight, Margot H.
Made - Not Bought
Maus, David
Mayfair Country Club
Mercedes-Benz
Mica, John L.
Miller, Mark
Mr. Baggs
oral history
Orlando, Florida
Princess Theater
race relations
Reisz, Autumn
Remade - Not Bought
Rib Ranch
RICHES Mosaic Interface
RICHES of Central Florida
Roman-Toro, Freddie
Sanford
Sanford Museum
Sanford Welcome Center
Seminole Cultural Arts Council
Serenity Towers
Sleeping Beauty
Spam-A-Lot
Swamp Gravy
Swamp Gravy Institute
Talks From the Stalks
Taylor, Jeanine
The Holocaust
The Princess Players
The Sanford Herald
The Villages
theater
theater manager
Thompson, Trish
Tony Award
Touch and Go
Uncle Dieter
United Art of Central Florida
Wicked
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/709d8b0c6afe0ef256f6894174459a84.pdf
3c54a399ae62591b666323513de4346c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection
Alternative Title
Celery Soup Collection
Subject
Sanford (Fla.)
Community theater--United States
Theater--United States
Description
The <em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em> Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida.
Contributor
Dingle, Cathy Lee
Delgado, Natalie
Fedorka, Drew M.
Ford, Nancy Harris
French, Scot A.
Kelley, Katie
Lee, Luticia Gormley
Maliczowski, Linda Lee
Maples, Marilyn
Miller, Mark
Reisz, Autumn
Thompson, Trish
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida
Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida
Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a>
<span>Dr. </span><a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a><span>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the </span><a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Fedorka, Drew
Interviewee
Ford, Nancy Harris
Location
<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video recording
Duration
22 minutes and 38 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
195kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Nancy Harris Ford
Alternative Title
Oral History, Ford
Subject
Sanford (Fla.)
New Smyrna Beach (Fla.)
Oral history--United States
Community theater--United States
Theater--United States
Actresses--United States
African Americans--Florida--Sanford
Georgetown (Sanford, Fla.)
Segregation--Florida
Rochester (N.Y.)
Description
An oral history told by Nancy Harris Ford, an actress in the Creative Sanford, Inc. and <em>Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play</em> production of <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>. Ford was raised in Sanford, Florida, and lived there until she graduated from Seminole High School in 1973. She returned to Sanford around 2009 and became involved with <em>Celery Soup</em>, a community theater project operated by Creative Sanford.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Drew Fedorka on November 16, 2013, and focuses on the historical figure and character of Dr. George H. Starke, an African-American physician in Georgetown in Sanford. Other topics include Ford's biographical information, her decision to return back to Sanford after 36 years elsewhere, how she became involved with Creative Sanford and <em>Celery Soup</em>, her involvement in <em>Touch and Go</em> and <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>, and segregation.
Table Of Contents
00:00 Introduction<br />00:12 Ford's biographical information<br />00:56 Interest in Sanford's history<br />01:30 Interest in Creative Sanford, Inc.<br />02:08 Characters Ford plays in <em>Remade - Not Bought<br /></em>03:13 Role of community theater in remembering history<br /> 06:55 Choice of scenes in <em>Remade - Not Bought<br /></em>10:12 History with creative license<br />11:24 Dr. George H. Starke<br />13:33 Childhood memories of Dr. Starke<br />14:15 Linking memory of Sanford to specific people<br />15:47 Dr. Starke's office and his role in the community<br />17:34 Messages behind Celery Soup plays<br />20:39 Role of Celery Soup in the healing process<br />21:18 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Nancy Ford Harris. Interview conducted by Drew Fedorka at the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> in Sanford, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
Ford, Nancy Harris. Interviewed by Drew Fedorka. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. November 16, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank"><em>Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</em> Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 22-minute and 38-second oral history: Ford, Nancy Harris. Interviewed by Drew Fedorka. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. November 16, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida.
Coverage
Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida
Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida
Crooms High School, Sanford, Florida
Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida
New Smyrna Beach, Florida
Dr. George H. Starke's Office, Sanford, Florida
Dr. Edward D. Strickland's Office, Sanford, Florida
Rochester, New York
Creator
Fedorka, Drew
Ford, Nancy Harris
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Contributor
Delgado, Natalie
Date Created
2013-11-16
Date Modified
2014-02-04
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
123 MB
163 KB
Medium
22-minute and 38-second audio/video recording
11-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Geography Teacher
Humanities Teacher
Theater Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Drew Fedorka and Nancy Harris Ford and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<em><a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play</a></em>
Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013
Curator
Cepero, Laura
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
"<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>'." <em>The Orlando Sentinel</em>, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup.
Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank"><em>Sanford</em></a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003.
Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank"><em>African Americans of Sanford</em></a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://youtu.be/3MRse7u0x7M" target="_blank">Oral History of Nancy Harris Ford</a>
Date Copyrighted
2013-11-16
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Transcript
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>This is Drew Fedorka. Uh, we are at the [UCF] Public History Center in Sanford, Florida. It is Saturday, November 16<sup>th</sup>, 2013. Do you just want to introduce yourself for the camera?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>I’m Nancy Ford, and, um—actually, I’m Nancy Harris Ford. My maiden name is Harris. I grew up here in Sanford and left. Was gone about 36 years and came back.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay, and when did you leave Sanford?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>I left Sanford in 1973, about a year after I graduated from Seminole High School.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay, and what brought you back to Sanford?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Uh, a combination of things. One is home. And, in 2008, when the economy did what it did, I found myself unemployed, and I needed to make some choices. So I chose to come home, where I had a support system.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay, um, now did you have any interest in Sanford’s history before getting involved with Celery Soup and Creative Sanford[, Inc.]?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Not really, because I am Sanford’s history. [<em>laughs</em>] You know, a lot of the things they do in Creative Sanford[, Inc.] in the shows that they write, I remember. So I’m not just learning them. I am learning new facts about these things, But a lot of these stories, they’re my stories—some of them. And I remember these things.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right so…</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>It’s interesting that what you call “history,” I call “my life.”</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right. Of course. Yeah. Okay. So what got you interested in Creative Sanford?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, when I came back, my sister—my sisters knew that I was interested in acting and performing, because I had done it when I was in Memphis[, Tennessee]. And she saw an advertisement for the show—for <em>Touch and Go</em>—and asked me if I would like to go. And so we went to see it, and I thought it was so interesting, so I said, “Well I think I’ll audition the next time around.” So the next time around, I auditioned and I really enjoyed it, so I’ve auditioned every time since.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay, great. Um, so you play a number of different characters in <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>. Do you want to go through some of the different characters?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] It was interesting. I played, um, Tasha in the continuity scene—is who’s the mother of one of the young ladies. And that role—the continuity scenes were designed to link the stories together so that they made sense. And, um, I also played Tasha’s mother in one of the scenes, remembering when the, uh, I guess the Woolworth’s counter, one of those restaurants which I actually remember when we used to go to the back window to get the food at the restaurants. We couldn’t go in and sit down. I remember that. So I played that character. And then I played Dr. Starke’s in another scene. And, uh, the Tasha character just kind of weaves through most of the show.</p>
<p><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>So it’s interesting that you said a lot of these things have been touched on your own personal life that you experienced. What role do you think community theater plays and community understanding on history in remembering history?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I think that it’s really important, because, if we don’t remember our past, especially the things that aren’t very pleasant, then we’re doomed to repeat it. Now, I have a son who’s 20, and we would get tired of me telling him sometimes that, when he wanted these shoes and these clothes that cost so much money, and I would tell him, “Well, you know, when I was growing up, my mama bought our clothes and hoped they’re fit. And most of the time, bought them too large, because we couldn’t try them on and she couldn’t take them back. Because we were colored.”</p>
<p class="Default">So, you know, especially for European Americans, we know a lot of your history, because we were exposed to it on commercials and television and stuff like that. But our history was kind of downplayed. And even among ourselves, we don’t realize sometimes the richness. When I say “ourselves” —the African-American community. Sometimes we don’t understand or really, fully realize the richness of our history. And the importance that certain things play. It was just kinda the way we lived.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right, and—so some of these scenes are dealing with some of the, um, more troubling or challenging aspects of Sanford’s history. Um, in what ways, um—let me think how to phrase it. And, does it—does it change the memory of these experiences at all in some of these scenes?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>It—it doesn’t change the memory. It changes the meaning. Uh, for example, the butterfly scene. I remember school integration. So when I’m going through that, I remember. And people say that I play that scene and I seem so—it seems so real, because I really was angry about school integration. [<em>clears throat</em>] Although, for me, it was the opposite. It was me going to the “white” school, so to speak, not the other way around, as it was in the butterfly scene. But I didn’t want to be there. I had no choice. I got thrown into an environment that I feel changed my life in a way that was not for the best.</p>
<p class="Default">When I was at Crooms [High School], I was a—an honors student. I was in the National Honors Society. I was on track to be Val of Sal. And when I went to Seminole [High School], I did not get the same attention that I got at Crooms. Because the curriculum was so different, and the books were so different, because we got hand me down books at Crooms. Things were so different that I was not academically prepared. And even though I did well, I was in and out of the Honors Society at Seminole. And I didn’t go to college. And I found out later about the, uh, work-studies. And I wasn’t counseled, so I didn’t know. I didn’t know what was available to me, and I didn’t graduate college until I was 50. And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that I got shoved into an environment where I wasn’t welcomed. I didn’t’ feel welcomed.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>It seemed that watching <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>, there’s a very specific choice of scenes. The types of topics that we’re touched on. I think of this really cool scene, I think of the butterfly scene, which is obviously one of the main highlights of the show. Um, the one of the restaurant that you just explained. What was the decision-making process, which scenes to highlight?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I wasn’t really involved in that, so—I wasn’t involved in choosing which scenes went into the play. You have to talk to the playwrights about that.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right. Okay. Uh, do you feel like there’s any—obviously, I mean, there’s—some of these scenes are kind of arbitrary in the way that—in the topics that they—in the—obviously the big comment that they’re trying to reconcile is Sanford’s history of racial tensions. And they’ve picked little snapshots to touch on. Do you think there’s any that would have been more effective to include?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I don’t know about effective, because I think they scenes they included were very effective. Um, there’s so many from which to choose. And I think that the ones that they chose show different aspects of the racial tension, like the pool scene.</p>
<p class="Default">I don’t know how to swim. I never learned. Uh, there were two pools in Sanford. The white pool, we weren’t allowed to go to. The black pool was always so crowded when it was open that you couldn’t swim in there if you tried.</p>
<p class="Default">And the beach? Well, there were no lifeguards at the beach we were allowed to go. We’d go to New Smyrna Beach. And our parents were afraid to put us in the water because they both, you know, fearful for our safety. And every summer, kids drowned. Every summer. So our parents were very fearful of that.</p>
<p class="Default">So those kinds of things, you know, were really meaningful. There’s, um, the only thing—and I have spoken to them about this—it seems that in every one of these plays, I play the angry black woman [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, but we had some good times in the African-American community as well. And sometimes I’d like to see that highlighted. You know, like we had pic—church picnics, and things like that. And because they highlight some things that have nothing to do with racial tension with the white characters.</p>
<p class="Default">But almost all the scenes that involve African Americans have some type of racial overtone. Even the Starke scene. Even though it wasn’t, you know, an uncomfortable thing, but even that had racial overtones and, you know, it’s—there were other things that we did [<em>laughs</em>], you know, that had nothing to do with race—that had nothing to do with white people either. But, you know, a lot of the scenes they have with whites have nothing to do with black people.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right. What—do you see what Creative Sanford does—what Celery Soup does especially—with plays like <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>—do you see what they’re doing as history or is it something different?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>It’s both. It’s history with creative license, because it’s entertainment. And I think it’s a good way to get a conversation going. Because when people go and they see these shows, then invariably, even participating, I learned things, and I go out and do research. Like, Dr. Starke was my doctor. Dr. Starke brought me into the world, you know, when I was born. He was the doctor who brought me here. He was my doctor growing up. But there were things that I didn’t know about him, because, you know, why would I want to go study about Dr. Starke? But now in retrospect, I went out on the Internet and did research, because I do want to know. You know, so there are—and almost everybody that I speak with, after they’ve seen the show, they say “I didn’t know this” or “I didn’t know that.” So yeah, it’s a good way to get a conversation started.</p>
<p><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>And it’s interesting that you mention Dr. Starke, because he is featured predominantly throughout the play. Um, in what ways do you think he was a good choice to highlight as a central example of some of the message we get across?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, one thing is that he was biracial, you know? And uh, and that’s one way—one of the reasons that he was able to do some of the things that he did, because he was fair. His skin was fair, his hair was wavy. But he was a very quiet man—a soft-spoken man. But, like they say in the play, he was a good man. And I remember going to him, up to my teenage years, you know—until I left here, he was my doctor—<em>[laughs</em>] I don’t ever remember paying him. I imagine my mother paid him. I don’t know whether she paid him or not. But it never occurred to me that he wasn’t getting paid. That’s not something that kids think about.</p>
<p class="Default">You know, and I know that I went to him once for something and he said, “Well tell Bernice such and such and such.” that was my mom’s name. So he knew his patients. It’s not like now. You go to the doctor and they review your chart to remember who you are. You know, they make notes in their charts so that they can have conversation with you. But if I walked into his office, he knew me. He knew my name. He knew my mother’s name. He knew my grandparents. It was very different.</p>
<p class="Default">And I didn’t realize—well, I didn’t think about the fact that he saw white people too. You know, I don’t ever remember seeing white people in his office. I imagine they were there, but you know, that wasn’t something that I thought about, because if he saw white people it was, because they couldn’t afford to pay the white doctor. And that was not uncommon in the black community, because we didn’t carry around a lot of the baggage it seems that a lot of the white people did.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>What are some of the memories you have of Dr. Starke of your childhood?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I remember one time that, uh—I didn’t like shots. I was actually very afraid of shots and I needed to get a shot. And there was a booster shot in the buttocks, and Dr. Starke had me stand at the window and look out the window, and he was talking to me. I don’t remember what he was talking to me about. I also don’t remember getting the shot. Just—it was just so much like the scene in the play. And when I saw that, I was like, “You know, he really was like that.” That was not an exaggeration.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>What role do you think the play has in linking the memory of Sanford and Sanford in the 20<sup>th</sup> century to people like Dr. Starke?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I think especially for a lot of the kids, it helps—helps you to know your history. History is important. Even though I didn’t realize it when I was young, because I did not like history in school. Didn’t like it at all. And now, I’m more interested in it, because I can see how—what they call progress. You know, the continuity of events and how it progressed from here to here and the next step. You know, um, Sanford was known as “The Celery City.” Well, I could remember what that smells like. Interestingly enough, because my gather ran a celery crew. So I used to play on the bus—on his bus. and it is a very distinct smell. And I remember what it smells like. And I also remember what it smelled like when those celery fills were rotting, cause, you know, Celery Avenue is named Celery Avenue for a reason. There weren’t houses down there when I was growing up. Those were celery fields. And so people don’t know why that street is named Celery Avenue. And there’s Celery Key and there’s Celery something else, but those are housing developments now. But they used to be celery fields.<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>And to bring you back to Dr. Starke. Dr. Starke’s office was near Celery Avenue.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, it’s on the corner of 11<sup>th</sup> Street and Sanford Avenue. So Celery Avenue is what 13<sup>th</sup> Street kinda turns into after it makes that little cattycorner. So yeah, it’s pretty close. And we used to walk. You used to walk everywhere. Nowadays, we hardly think about walking these days.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Would you say Dr. Starke was well-known in the community?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] I’d say that’s an understatement.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay. And…</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>He was the black doctor. So all the black folks went to him. You know, because we didn’t—the white doctors wouldn’t see us. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good doctor. He was probably one the best doctors in town, but we didn’t realize that, because he was our doctor. He was the only doctor we knew.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>And was he known—well-known at the time, at least in Sanford, for his role in sort of crossing—crossing that color barrier by obviously, uh, white patients coming to see him? Was that well-known in the community?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well [<em>coughs</em>], they may—[<em>coughs</em>] excuse me. It may have been by adults, but I was a child, so that wasn’t something that I thought about, you know.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>So, you know, he—I know that he was a prominent figure. Everybody knew him. And Dr. Ringland<a title="">[1]</a> too. He wasn’t in the play, but Dr. Ringland was the dentist—the dentist—the black dentist. And they shared an office. They shared an office space. Because when you went to the doctor and you went to the dentist, you went to the same building.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay to—just a couple of last questions to bring it back to <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>. You said that one of the main role of, um, productions like that is just to get a conversation started. What types of messages do you hope that got across from a production like <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I would—I would hope that some healing happens. Because there’s a lot of bitterness still, um, in the community among both black and whites. There’s anger. There, uh—we’ve come a long way, but we still have a ways to go. A lot of blacks are bitter and angry, because we feel—when I say “we,” I mean some blacks and whites. I don’t mean all of any group. But many of us, uh, as a people feel that we’ve struggled.</p>
<p class="Default">And I know personally in my own life—because my name is Nancy, I got into doors that I wouldn’t have gotten into if my name had been something else. But when I walked through the door, say for an interview, I could see the countenance of the interviewer’s face change, because I was not what they expected. My—my maiden name is Harris. My name is Nancy Harris. I’m well-spoken. I’m articulate. When you speak with me on the phone, you don’t necessarily know that I’m an African American, but when I walk through the door, it’s obvious. And that hurts. And every time that happens, it hurts. So there’s[sic] scars there. There’s[sic] deep scars and they need heeling.</p>
<p class="Default">[<em>coughs</em>] By the same token [<em>coughs</em>]—excuse me—I went through affirmative action, where a lot of white people felt left out. And I had—I had work as a result of affirmative action—a pretty good job. I was a machinist. And, in that shop—and I was in Rochester, New York, where they thought things were better—and the white guys, they would yell things at me across the shop. And tell me that I was taking the food out of some guy’s family’s mouth, because I shouldn’t be there, because I’m black and female.</p>
<p class="Default">So we have these kinds of conversations. It gives the opportunity to know that we’re all human. All the parts, the same ways. The human way. And that we all have feelings, and they should be honored. And that we all have rich culture and tradition. And I think it’s important for us to learn about each other’s culture more and more, so that we can appreciate our differences and move forward. Because, in order to hold a person down, you have to stay down there with them. And it’s important for us all to rise.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Um, do you think Celery Soup and <em>Remade - Not Bought</em>, um— it[sic] puts a very positive spin on a lot of these memories and do—do you think there’s any—do you think it’s does it effectively with this healing process?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Um, yes. I think it does. I think anytime we address these things head-on, that it’s effective. It may not always feel good, but it’s like a shot. Doesn’t feel good when you get it, but what it does is work. The benefit feels good.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, thank you very much for your help. If you—do you have anything you want to say about Celery Soup or the just importance of it, he importance of community theater, the importance of approaching community’s history in this manner?</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Well, I’d just like to say that I’m very happy that this project exists—that Creative Sanford exists. And that Creative Sanford sees the benefit of doing this work. And I hope that people will support it. You know, theatre is not well-supported in general, and in particular, community theatre. We have a lot of good, um—good actors and actresses in community theatre.</p>
<p class="Default">One of the things that I love about Celery Soup is that everyone who auditions gets cast. And even though I had experience coming into it, it’s a wonderful opportunity for people who have never been on a stage before to get out there and see if they like it and have an opportunity to—to go someplace, because this is the way that—there are a lot of people that we see on television and on the big screen, who got their start in community theater. It’s important and I do think it should be valued, and people should support it.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka<br /></strong>Well, thank you very much…</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Ford<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p class="Default"><strong>Fedorka <br /></strong>For all your thoughts.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Dr. Edward D. Strickland.</p>
</div>
</div>
11th Street
13th Street
actress
affirmative action
African American
celery
Celery Avenue
Celery City
celery industry
Celery Island
Celery Key
Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play
community theater
Creative Sanford, Inc.
Crooms Academy
Crooms High School
Delgado, Natalie
doctor
Eleventh Street
Fedorka, Drew
Ford, Nancy Harris
French, Scot
Georgetown
Harris, Nancy
New Smyrna Beach
physician
race relations
Remade - Not Bought
Rochester, New York
Sanford
Sanford Avenue
segregation
Seminole High School
SHS
Starke, George H.
Strickland, Edward D.
Tasha
theater
Thirteenth Street
Touch and Go