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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b04816d49be28e9a8bd4764275639c87.pdf
3b4ca33d66e21c6afb4584f654d4d835
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Johnson, Taylor
Interviewee
Wheeler, Terry W.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Terry W. Wheeler
Alternative Title
Oral History, Wheeler
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler (b. 1959), who served in the U.S. Army, during the Cold War. Wheeler was born in Fort Lee, Virginia, in 1959. He joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and was commissioned into the Army on December 28, 1981. He earned the rank of Captain, as well as several awards and commendations: the Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon, the Army Achievement Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal. Wheeler served in Fort Knox, Kentucky, Schweinfurt, West Germany, and Fort Benning, Georgia.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include training at Fort Knox, duties as an Armor Officer, assignment in West Germany, Fort Benning, duties as a Tank Company commander, combat simulations, resigning from the Army and attending graduate school, and employment in the private sector.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:01:52 Enlistment<br />0:02:25 Training and duties as an Armor Officer<br />0:05:41 Germany<br />0:07:16 Inner German border and gunnery<br />0:08:47 Interaction with Germans and most memorable day<br />0:10:39 Free time, contacting family, and fellow servicemembers<br />0:12:00 Fort Benning, Georgia<br />0:13:46 Tank Company Commander and combat simulations<br />0:16:22 Resignation and graduate school<br />0:17:57 Awards and most memorable aspect of service<br />0:18:41 Post-Army career<br />0:19:27 Effect of service on civilian life<br />0:20:21 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler. Interview conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
15-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 11-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Schweinfurt, Lower Franconia, Bavaria, Germany
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Creator
Wheeler, Terry W.
Johnson, Taylor
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
181 MB
166 KB
Medium
21-minute and 11-second DVD/MP4 aduio/video recording
15-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Taylor Johnson and Terry W. Wheeler and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Hawkins, John Palmer. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44713137" target="_blank"><em>Army of Hope, Army of Alienation: Culture and Contradiction in the American Army Communities of Cold War Germany</em></a>. Westport, Conn: Praeger, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I’m interviewing Terry [W.] Wheeler, who served in the Army from 1981 to 1990. I’m Taylor Johnson. Mr. Wheeler served during the Cold War era. He spent time in Fort Knox, Kentucky; Schweinfurt[, Lower Franconia, Bavaria], Germany; and [U.S. Army Infantry School] Fort Benning, Georgia. My name’s Taylor Johnson, again. We’re interviewing Mr. Wheeler as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We’re recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. So my first question is: where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was born in Fort Lee, Virginia.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>1959. Fort Lee is a military post, and that is the—that is the Army hospital on post[?].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you—sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>That’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you grew up on a military post?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>My dad was in the military, and we grew up—I grew up in, uh, location to location, across the United States and Europe, until he retired in 1971.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your father do for the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>He was a logistics officer. He was a ward officer [<em>clears throat</em>], and, uh, he—he spent, uh, time in WWII [World War II], Korea[n War], and three tours in Vietnam [War].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your mother do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>She was a housewife, Uh, up until about the time my dad retired, and then she came back into the workforce.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Do you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I don’t.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do before you entered the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was in college. I was a ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] cadet at Gonzaga University, and so I was a college student.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you study?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was a business major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so do you have any other family members that served in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, uncles. My—my dad’s oldest brother was killed during World War II. Uh, his old—his younger brother served in the Navy. His other younger brother served in the Air Force, and then I have cousins who have served in the military also.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what prompted you to enter the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>It’s a—it’s a very easy decision to make, if you grew up in a military family. Uh, it was just a logical progression of what I would like to do to serve, and so I made that decision—when I was in high school—that I was gonna serve.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So how did your family members feel about you entering the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, they were very supportive. They were not, uh, overly pushing me towards that decision. It was my own decision to make. Uh, my mother was not as happy with that decision as she would’ve been if I had stayed in the civilian side, uh, but that’s the way it turned out.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what were your first days in the service like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I came in at the end of December 1981, and came on active duty, and went to my basic qualification course at Fort Knox. I was an Armor Officer, and so, for the next four and a half months, I spent time at Fort Knox learning how to be a platoon leader—a second Lieutenant, and then I was assigned to Germany after that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do as an Armor Officer?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, sp—the position that I was in was, uh, a cavalry position. That is a sub-branch of the armor—a subsection of the armor. Uh, Cavalry is a screen unit—a—a scout unit, if you will, that works in a divisional or regimental level. Basically, the cav’s mission is to, uh, screen and be the leading edge of a, uh—of the unit, uh, in the advance, to screen the flanks to make sure there are no surprises. So it’s very, very light, very, very fast reconnaissance.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was your initial training like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Four and a half months of learning everything, from personnel actions to vehicle repair to how to employ the weapons systems on all the vehicles that we are going to be assigned, Radio communications. I mean, the entire gamut that you would expect to serve in that posi—in a ge—in that position as a leader. Uh, second lieutenant platoon leader is an entry-level position for combat arms. Um, Basically, uh, you’re in charge of about 38 soldiers and about—at that—at that point in time [<em>sighs</em>]—let me count vehicles real quick—about 13 vehicles.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um,okay.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson <br /></strong>So what do you remember most about your time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Fort Knox, in the wintertime, is very cold. As Germany is very cold. Um, it was a lot of fun. We learned a lot in a very short amount of time, and, uh, long days, long nights, and it was a really good building experience. Uh, the people that you meet, in that same course, are people that[sic] you serve with in the military throughout your career, and it is a boomerang-type effect, because you come back together. They’re sent to units, you’re sent to units, you run into them for training exercises or operational deployments. You come back together for training over time, and so you’re building a cohort of—of people that you serve with throughout the rest of your career.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What type of advanced training did you receive, if any?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, really, advanced is not key to this, at that point. Um, basically, you know, eh, for the armor side, you come in, you’re given, uh, the tra—the base training, and you go out and be a platoon leader, and you spend a couple years doing that. If you’re selected for the advanced course, then you come back as a ju—a senior lieutenant or a junior-grade captain, and go through another six-month type course, where they lear—they—you need to learn how to be an effective commander of a small unit—a Company Commander. At the end of that, then you go out and serve a utilization tour, being a leader at that level. So it’s, you know, two grades up, and then, at that point, then you—you split off in your career, and pull the secondary career, and so you split off into another area, and so, at that point then—rom that point forward in your career you, flip flop between your primary and your secondary specialty. So I really didn’t have advanced training, other than the fact that I went through the career course as a Captain, and then commanded a unit.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Okay, um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Excuse me.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So when did you find out that you were going to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, April 1982. Right at the end—I received orders for that, right as I was finishing up my qualification course.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And how did you react to that news?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was very happy. I had spent two years in Germany as a child. I already spoke fluent German, and so it was not a huge, life-changing experience to go over there. Um, usually what you walk as a—as an American, when you walk into Germany—not having served there, not having any background to it—you go through a couple weeks of qualif—uh, of familiarization, where you learn rudimentary language, and I was not—I was able to just bypass that and mainstream right in.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was, uh—what was a routine day like during your assignment in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] I can give you a routine—a, uh, better description than that. For the first year that I was there as a platoon leader, we were in the field 280 days out of 365 days that year. We would deploy out for a, uh—a 30-day session on a border camp, where we would patrol the East German<a title="">[1]</a> interzonal border. From that, we would get on the train and go to a gunnery—three or four weeks of tank gunnery, and from that, we would deploy to a field exercise, go home for two weeks, and then go back to the border for 30 days. So we spent most of our time out actually doing our real world mission, at that point. Um, up at six in the morning, uh, some pu—some, uh—in effect, through midnight—one in the morning. I mean, it was a very, very, very dynamic, high stress, long day environment.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do in each of those three sort of positions?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the border camp, we were responsible to patrol a section of border of—of the East German interzonal border. This was still when the [Berlin] Wall was up. between 2<sup>nd</sup> ACR [Armored Calvary Regiment] and 11<sup>th</sup> ACR, we had this—this—this piece of the border that had to be actually manned, and stood ready to—to announce that any—any incursion had come across the border. We were fully combat-loaded. We were deployed there 30 days at a time. We spent 10 days, eh, in a steady reaction state of walking around, with full gear loaded on, helmets in our hands, ready to walk out the gate with five minutes notice to go to our general positions and fight a war. Okay? We spent 10 days in training. We spent 10 days doing actual patrols in jeeps up and down the interzonal border. Uh, it is the—It was the—other than Korea—at that point, it was—we were one of the most forward-deployed units in the Army, at that time. All the vehicles were fully uploaded with the ammunition and ready to go.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do at the gunnery?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler <br /></strong>Gunnery was—there’s a—there’s a—a full qualification session that you have to—to do in tanks to maintain proficiency, and you do that more than two to three—four times a year, and so you would go, and there were actually exercises that you run, shooting live guns, live ammunition at the range, and you qualify as a tank crew, as a section of two, platoon of four, and a company of 12, and so it is, basically, you know, move and shoot, and communicate, and prov—proving proficiency that you can do that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you think of the Germans?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, uh, where we were stationed in Germany, it was in—it was in the very northern end of Bavaria. Germans were very, very polite people. Uh, very welcoming. Um, I’m not so sure that the Germans really enjoyed being occupied still after 40 years of—after the end of the [World] War [II], but, uh, they were very nice. Uh, they—if you spoke German, or at least tried to fit in and blend in, you get a lot further than being an ugly American, and, uh, it was a very pleasant place, and we saw a lot of it riding in the back of a military vehicle.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What was your most memorable day during that assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Give me a second. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] we had a soldier that died in a training accident, and the aftermath of that was really hard to deal with. Uh, It was not his—it was not a—a—a, uh—a safety issue that was the direct cause. It truly was an accident. Uh, The tank that he was riding in, uh, went over, uh—now, in Germany—back in the Germany, uh, the train—a lot of the trains and some of the streetcars would run with electricity, and they had these high tension wires overhead, and he was riding in a tank, and the—the antenna on his tank, uh, snapped loose and the antenna went up and hit the top of the—of the high voltage wire, and it arced electricity through the vehicle, and the vehicle basically exploded, and three of the—of the four crew were able to get out, and he was unable to get out, and he passed away. So that was very difficult to deal with. Uh, seeing the aftermath of that [<em>clears throat</em>], having to pull the tank apart, trying to take his remains out, you know, that kind of thing. So that—that was a very memorable day.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, what did you do with your free time, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Traveled.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Uh, can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>A—again, we were deployed most of the time. So when there was a free couple of day—a week—a weekend, or a free three- or four-day event, we would get in the car and disappear. Drove all over Bavaria, uh, spent time in France [<em>clears throat</em>], spent some time, uh, in Northern Germany. Um, basically just enjoying the, uh—the countryside and the people.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so how did you stay in touch with your family while you were overseas?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>We didn’t have email, at that time. Computers were still brand new [<em>clears throat</em>]. So it was by post. Uh, Telephone calls were very expensive, so telephones didn’t really get figured into that, so letters.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And what do you remember about the people that you served with, while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I still have friends that I’ve stayed in contact with, after all these years. That was, uh, 1982-1983-1984 timeframe. I still stay in touch with a few of ‘em. Uh, Very dedicated group of people, um, very like-minded. Uh, you find in the military that not just the clothes you wear make you the same. Very, very similar backgrounds, characteristics, views on the world, and, uh, it was a very, very good time to be a young officer, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was it like when you came back to the U.S.?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>They call the flight from Germany to the United States the “freedom bird” for a reason. Uh, everyone’s happy to come home. Uh, it is a great feeling of—of, uh, assimilation back into society [<em>clears throat</em>], into the culture that you—you are in. It—and, you know, it is—it is—it wasn’t different, at that point in time. It was Europe, and different language, different money, different feel. It was—it was coming home. So it was very nice to come back to the States.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what do you remember about Fort Benning?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Benning is the home of the Infantry [Branch]. Uh, It is—it is a[sic], uh, Infantry training center. Ranger School’s there, Airborne School, Pathfinder [School]. Um, I was assigned to the 2<sup>nd</sup> Battalion, 69<sup>th</sup> Armor [Regiment], at that—at that point, and we went and we were part of a round—we were part of a—a, uh, brigade that was a round-out element for the, uh, rapid deployment force—XVIII Airborne Corps. So we were, again, fairly—fairly well getting ready to be on, you know—on a couple hours’ notice, ready to deploy into the world, but, uh, it was—it was a great training opportunity. We were the only armor unit on post. So we would get tagged for a lot of fire demonstrations and combined arms demonstrations, when the—when the—when the, uh, senior, uh, officers would come—come into town [<em>clears throat</em>], and so we spent a lot of time working with the Infantry. We really refined the—the union—the union of the true mechanized team, at that point. So it was not armor pure. It was that combined arms element that we really struggled to, uh, put in place, and it was really, really great training opportunity.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training for your job as a Tank Company Commander?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Yeah, I went through the advanced course. That was, ah—so coming back from Germany, I spent six months again at Fort Knox, going through the next phase of that course and came out, eh, eh, basically ready to be a Company Commander. So when I was—I was deployed to Benning, I spent the next, uh, 16 months as a Maintenance Officer for a battalion, and then was assigned as a Company Commander, and spent, uh, [<em>sighs</em>] another probably 18 to 20 months, I guess, as a Tank Company Commander.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about your job with combat simulations—the combat simulations branch?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the end of my command time, uh, I picked my secondary specialty as Operations Research and Systems Analysis, and there was a group that was doing that type of work attached to the Infantry center, and so I went in, and I was a—an Executive Officer for this small group that used computers—which were very, very, uh, elementary, as compared to what we have now—to do war gaming, to look at how new equipment inserted into a battlefield would make a differential change.</p>
<p>So basically, you would take the characteristics of—of a new weapon system, and you would deploy that with—so you’d run simulations without that weapon system and you would run simulations with that weapons system, and look for the differentials that you could achieve and how much more advantage it gave you. It was part of the co—cost and operational effectiveness analysis for getting those systems to be brought online.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so—I lost my place. Um, what was a routine day like while you were in Georgia?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, at—at the—at the, uh—at the armor group job? Or in the, uh—the simulations job?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, either one.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Armor job—realistically, almost every line unit almost has the exact same type of training as—same type of day. Uh, up in the morning, depending on, you know—three days a week you run PT [physical training] from six o’clock to seven o’clock, have a shower, be back at—at work at—at eight for formation. Going through the day, whether training, or maintenance, or what have you, and are usually done by six o’clock at night, Uh, Back home to families.</p>
<p>Um, the—the Executive Officer’s job is—at the branch, we would spend the day doing the same thing. We would do PT a couple days a week, and then, um, go into what was more of an office-style environment to do those simulations. Um, we had a staff of about eight members—both soldiers and civilians—that worked that group, and we would do these simulation exercises on the computers.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what was it like when your service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] I made the decision to—to, uh, resign my commission and come out of active duty, uh, in early spring of 1990. Um, my secondary priority[?]—I had already worked at my secondary specialty for two years, and was unable to get the Army to agree to send me to grad[uate] school for a funded grad program, and I had watched officers who had gone through the Army non-funded program and the funded grad program, come out and see how effective they were in that job, and the ones that[sic] were coming out, not having gone to grad school, were not being retained, and I was not selected to go through the grad program, so that basically was the de—deciding point [<em>clears throat</em>] that, if I couldn’t do that and retain my time—because I figured, at that point, I would not be able to continue. I elected to resign and get out, and then I, uh, applied for grad school and went to grad school. Um, My ETS [Expiration Term of Service] was June 30<sup>th</sup>, 1990, and the Army froze all separation actions July 15<sup>th</sup>, for the [Persian] Gulf War. So that was immediately—I mean, it was—it days before the Gulf War jumped from there, almost.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what did you study when you went to grad school?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I studied information systems, and, uh, spend 18 months in grad school.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, What can you tell us about the awards that you received from the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Very, very common, uh, awards that people, you know—you spend eight years doing that. Um, nothing—nothing major. Um, you know, Army Achievement Medals for stuff, and, uh, that’s pretty much it. Nothing major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was the most memorable thing overall about your time in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>You know, as I alluded to earlier, uh, it is a—it is a great pleasure to spend time with people of a like mind. Okay? I found a lot of the people, that[sic] I spent time with, had the same values, same views on the world, politics, that I did, and so it was a brotherhood, and just the—the people that[sic] I—and the friendships, I guess, that I had—had gained, and the relationships from work that I had from that group of people is what I retained from that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was your job after you left the service.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>When I came out I went to grad school and finished grad school at Syracuse [University], and, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] I went to work for IBM [International Business Machines Corporation] as an intern, did that for about nine months, and then came into the private sector.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what are you doing now?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I am currently the director of IT [information technology] services for the Student Development and Enrollment Services division here<a title="">[2]</a> on campus.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Basically, SDES is the largest division on campus. We have about 2,400 staff that we maintain computer action for servers for, so desktop, laptop, database, uh, web design, and that’s what we encompass. So basically, I run the services side of that group.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and how has your time in the military affected your life since then?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>There hasn’t really been an effect since then. It was a—any time you transition from the military to the ci—the civilian sector, it can create a period of—of, uh, change, I guess you would say. Uh, going from the major activities, and the mindset, and the—the guidelines that we do into what the civilian world does not encompass. Um, it took about a year—a year and a half—to go through that and actually transition the mindset away.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And do you belong to any veterans groups?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I do not.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What do you do with your free time since you left the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, I have—I have children. So pretty much now it’s just work and—and, you know, time with family and Boy Scouts [of America].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what would you say to someone who is contemplating enlisting or becoming a commissioned officer today?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Military service is an honor, and, uh, it’s a calling that, if you’re called to do, you really want to without any real reason to explain why, and it’s a very, very honorable thing to do, and if that is—if that is a design that is something that interests someone to do, I encourage them fully to accept that and enjoy.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, ma’am.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you for your time, and for coming to talk with me today, and thank you for your service. I appreciate your participation, and we will be in touch with you once we have a copy of your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> German Democratic Republic (GDR).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> At the University of Central Florida.</p>
</div>
</div>
11th ACR
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
18th Airborne Corps
2nd ACR
2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment
2nd Battalion
2nd Lieutenant
69th Armor Regiment
Achievement Medal
ACR
advanced training
Airborne Corps
Armor Officer
Armor Regiment
Armored Cavalry Regiment
basic training
Bavaria, Germany
Berlin Wall
Blachorse Regiment
cavalry
COEA
cold war
combat simulations
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commander
cost and operational effectiveness analysis
CVHP
deployments
East Germany
Eighteenth Airborne Corps
Eleventh Armored Cavalry Regiment
enlistment
Executive Officer
Federal Republic of Germany
Fort Benning, Georgia
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Fort Lee, Virginia
Free State of Bavaria
freedom birds
FRG
German Democratic Republic
Germans
Germany
Infantry Branch
information technology
inner German border
IT
lieutenants
Maintenance Officer
military training
Operations Research/Systems Analysis
ORSA
rapid deployment force
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
ROTC
Schweinfurt, Germany
scouts
SDES
Second ACR
Second Armored Cavalry Regiment
Second Battalion
Second Lieutenant
simulation training
Sixty-Ninth Armor Regiument
Student Development and Enrollment Services
Tank Company Commander
Taylor Johnson
Terry W. Wheeler
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
UCF
UCF SDES
UCF Student Development and Enrollment Services
veterans
weapon systems
West Germany
XVIII Airborne Corps
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e979574868da94f6a20a3fa283e68f35.pdf
982bb5a46631a8d53dec5fa885f4f54e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Ray Sturm
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sturm
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Ray Sturm (b. 1963), who served in the U.S. Army from 1983 to 1989. Sturm was born in Winter Park, Florida, on October 22, 1963. He enlisted in the Army in 1983 and completed his basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Sturm then served at Herzo Base in Herzogenaurach, Germany. He served in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade and 34th Infantry Division, and achieved the rank of Sergeant.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Katie Hollingsworth in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson, Herzo Base, his rank as Sergeant, Fort Stewart, the 24th Infantry Division, comradery, Sturm's interest in music, and his post-military life.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:02:35 Enlistment<br />0:05:05 Basic training and advanced training <br />0:07:53 Herzo Base<br />0:16:58 Sergeant rank<br />0:22:00 Fort Stewart and the 24th Infantry Division<br />0:25:41 Comradery and music<br />0:28:26 Post-military education<br />0:30:44 Keeping in touch with other soldiers<br />0:33:05 Military's influence on life<br />0:35:35 Advice to current service members<br />0:37:07 Post-military hobbies<br />0:39:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Ray Sturm. Interview conducted by Katie Hollingsworth at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
26-page digital transcript of original 42-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Winter Park, Florida
Fort Jackson, Columbia, South Carolina
Herzo Base, Herzogenaurach, Hesse, Germany
Fort Stewart, Georgia
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sturm, Ray
Hollingsworth, Katie
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
362 MB
228 KB
Medium
42-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
26-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Katie Hollingsworth and Ray Sturm and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Nelson, Harold W. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"><em>The Army</em></a>. Arlington, Va: Army Historical Foundation, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, by the way, I assume this is going to be edited?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No? Okay. Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay. So Today—it is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014, and I am interviewing Dr. Ray Sturm, who served in the U.S. Army as a Sergeant in the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade, 34<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division. I am interviewing Dr. Sturm as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Uh, I was born right here in Central Florida. I was born inWinter Park, uh, in [October 22,] 1963.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a CPA [Certified Public Accountant], and my mom was a homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, how big was your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, just the three of us. Well, and…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Just the three of you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And my grandmother lived with us…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, until I was about 10 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, what do you remember mostly about your childhood?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, what do I remember mostly?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Mmhmm[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, having a lot of fun [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, like—you know, like we, uh, had talked about earlier, uh, actually growing up near the Navy base. Uh, we were just two blocks from the Navy base there. Um, and that kind of impacted, uh—impacted our lives a little bit.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what kind of education did you receive?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, after high school, um, and after, uh, my military service, uh, I got my Bachelor’s, uh, [degree] and Master’s [degree] from University of Central Florida. So Bachelor’s in accounting, Master’s in taxation, um, and then I received a, uh, Doctorate [degree] in finance from Florida Atlantic University.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, before you enlisted, what did you—what sort of things did you enjoy doing?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I enjoyed surfing. I enjoyed surfing and I enjoyed, uh, exercising. I was a—I was always very physical. So I ran track all through high school and—and in junior high. Um, and, uh, anything that involved sports I was, uh—I was interested in doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, were any of your other family members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, yeah. My grandfather, um, was in the Army Corps of Engineers. Um, I think he was—I think that was actually a civilian position, But he was working in that. My, uh, step grandfather was, um, actually drafted in—I believe it was the Army, and, uh, he was drafted at like 40 years old, uh, in World War II. He was not—not very happy about that, and, um, my dad was in the Air Force, Which is what brought us down here to Central Florida in the first place.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah, and, Um, how aware were you of the Cold War, before you enlisted?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, not very. Uh, you know, obviously, uh, I knew it was going on, but, uh, you know, I enlisted at 20 years old, so I wasn’t, uh—I wasn’t, uh, all that aware of, uh—of the Cold War. I was more aware of [the Invasion of] Grenada,<a title="">[1]</a> because I went in right a—a month after that happened. So[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah, uh, what influenced you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, lots of things. Uh, at that time, um, uh, I was in, uh—I was in college, but I wasn’t really a student yet. So, um, you know, I was—I was still—still seeking, and really just everything, at that time, uh, uh, pointed towards the military. Um, one of the rea—one of the main reasons I did go in though was: I had always had an interest in the military. I mean, I could—I could remember, even back in elementary school, doing a book report on World War II. You know, so I had always had an interest in the, uh—in the military, um, and just kind of, you know, the, um, spirit of the American soldier, I guess you could say.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, and, uh, why did you choose the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, because I—when I went in, um, you know—like I said, I went in for a lot of reasons. uh, and I was actually very, uh—you know, I never planned on making it a career, but I did wanna do everything that I could do while I was in. um, and I figured that, uh, if—if I went in the Marines, uh, that I was going to have to be hardcore for three years, whether I liked it or not. Um, I didn’t want to go into the Navy, because the idea of being on a ship for nine months at a time didn’t appeal to me. Um, and I didn’t want to go into the Air Force, because I—I didn’t—I wasn’t aware of some of the, uh—some of the things that you could do in the Air Force, at that time. Um, but, uh, uh, I wanted to—I chose the Army, because I thought it was a good compromise between being, uh—uh, being very hardcore and not so much. So I went in that, uh, figuring that if I really liked it, then I could go that route. Uh, if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, did your dad influence that decision at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Since he was from the Air Force?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, but how did they react when you decided to enlist—your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, my dad being a veteran, um, I—I think they were happy about it. Of course, you know, they’re concerned. You know, a parent—a, uh—a child going in the military is always a concern to the parent, but, um, I think that they were, um—I think that they were happy about it, uh, for the exact reason that it turned out, as the military, uh, um, helps you mature a lot, and you—you grow up—you grow up pretty quick.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what do you remember most—what do you most remember about basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, boy, was it cold [<em>laughs</em>]. I went in—I was in, uh—uh, I went in November—November 9<sup>th</sup>[, 1983]. So, uh—so basic training was eight weeks, although we got, uh, Christmas exodus. So we got—I think we were out for like two weeks over Christmas, Which was very shocking to me, but, um—but it was cold. It was cold. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And why was it cold? Where were you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, it was Fort Jackson[, Columbia], South Carolina, and, um, I did, uh, uh—I did both basic and, uh, AIT [Advanced Individual Training], uh, at Fort Jackson, uh, South Carolina. So I was there from November until probably about March [1984], I guess it would be, and, uh, you know, after I—after I went on from that, you know, I was—I was in Germany. You’ll probably be getting to that, but I was in Germany, uh, and we’d go to the field in the snow and all that kind of stuff, but the coldest day I’ve ever spent in my life was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, um, out on the artillery range.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, just from my job. Ju—just from my job. I—I had wanted to, um—I wanted to go into [Army] Special Forces. Uh, and, uh, kinda—I—I ran into a lot of red tape, uh, start—starting with the fact that, if I had gone that route, I wouldn’t have been able to enlist for another year, and I really couldn’t wait that long, so I went in hoping that I would get in that route. Um, Things didn’t work out like that, but, uh, um, so I just—the—the, uh—really, the only advanced training I had was from my job.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about your job?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I was in logistics. I was in supply, and, um, uh, so, you know, again, I took that at—at Fort Jackson, and, uh, one of the things that I—I learned about that in there is when you watch this—particularly like the old World War II movies—uh, you know, you see the stereotypical Supply Sergeant, you know, with the hat cocked back and the little, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Cigar sticking out of their mouth[sic]. Um, and that’s not—that’s not the way it is. Um, and, especially these days, ‘cause, with computers, they have everything really, uh, locked down. Back then, uh, you could still do some wheeling and dealing, because things weren’t as, uh—as accountable as they are now. When I say “things,” I mean the supplies themselves. It wasn’t as easy to account for them then, but one of the things that—that, uh—that surprised me about that job is: eh, we took the, um—we took the, uh, combat role—not that we saw any combat—but we took that very seriously, because if you think about it, when the enemy attacks, what’s one of the first things they attack? It’s the supply line. So, go—you know, going into supplies sounds like, you know, I guess, wheel and deal…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And smoke cigars, but it’s actually a little more—a little more serious than that. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what was it like going overseas? You mentioned Germany earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was my—that was my first time overseas. Um, you know, again, I was 20 years old, at the time, uh, uh, but it was—it was a little overwhelming, and, uh, I remember, uh—I remember when I first got there, uh, I flew into Frankfurt[, Hesse, Germany], and I was stationed about two hours south of Frankfurt. So I think—I think there were about a half dozen of us or so that were in the van. Um, and as we made our way down there, they’d drop off one by one, and, of course, I was the last one.</p>
<p>But, um, when—when he dropped me off—I’ll—I’ll never forget—When he dropped me off at my duty post, it was just a small air base. So you could walk from the front gate to the back gate in about five minutes, and, um, when he dropped me off, it was an overcast day, cold, and I had no idea where to go, and he spoke no English whatsoever [<em>laughs</em>]. So all he could do was point to this building, and, uh, so I walked in the building and just kind of found my way from there, but, um, uh, that was my initial, uh—initial experience going overseas. Uh, going overseas, uh, in some ways, really formed, uh, a lot of the values that I have today. So I don’t know how in depth, uh, you meant that question to be.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No, that’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Tell me more about it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, um…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How it impacts you today.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, you know, it was a completely different culture, you know? And I—I had, uh—I had never experienced anything like that before. Um, I remember when we were, uh, in process. Because when—when you get in country, uh, for, um—I think we went through two weeks of, um, kind of an indoctrination on the German culture, you know? And again, at that time, it was East [Germany] and West Germany. So we were in, we were—we were in West Germany.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>laughs</em>] they—they would actually hire a local. Uh, it was a German, uh—a Germany lady that came in, and she was just, you know, teaching us basic German phrases and things like that. Um, the very first thing she taught us was “Ein bier, bitte.” So “one beer, please,” of course, but one—one of the first things that really jumped out at me about being overseas was, uh, one of the military personnel’s telling us, uh, um, basically, to, uh, uh, be good boys while we were over there, because at—I don’t know if it’s still this way—but, at the time, there was no such thing as police brutality.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, uh, you know—so the <em>polizei</em> tell you to do something, you do it, ‘cause there is no police brutality over there [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So, um, could you tell me more about what you did in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, that’s when I was with the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade. Um, I was working in the, uh—working in the, uh, supply area over there. So, um, We were stationed—I was stationed at a little place called Herzo Base, which is near Herz—Herzogenaurach[, Bavaria], Germany, which is near Nuremberg, which is where they had the war trials, uh—The German war trials. <a title="">[2]</a> Um, uh, and the air base that I was at was actually an old Luftwaffe, uh, base, and it was right on the hilltop, uh, and where we were stationed, uh, as it was told to me—it’s a pretty interesting story, because, you know, obviously, there’s a[sic] air field out there, but apparently, during World War II, it was a secret air base. So what they would do is: they would, uh—when they weren’t, uh, using it, they would flood the field. So from the air, it would just look like a lake, and then when they—when they wanted to, uh—when they wanted to, uh, use it, then they would drain it, of course, and take off, and land, and do whatever it is that they needed to do. Uh, but the one thing that was kind of, uh, eerie over there was that, um: we had, uh, lots of underground passages, and they were all padlocked shut, and, uh, the rumor was—I don’t—I don’t know if it was true or not—but the, uh—the rumor was that there was, um—actually, in some of them, uh, supposedly, there were some old World War II planes down there, but, uh, they were concerned that some things had been booby-trapped, so apparently, the—all of that was flooded.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, of course, we, uh—we never went down there, but, um—but, like I say, I was there—I was there for 18 months, Uh, um, in the uh Headquarters. It’s called “Headquarters [and] Headquarters Battery.”</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, I read in your biographical data sheet that you would go on alert and get ready for battle. What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was something, uh—yeah. At that time, um, one-fifth of the entire Army was stationed in Germany. Um, and alerts were something that we did take seriously over there, and, um, uh, when we, uh—when we went on alert, then, within about two hours, uh, we had to be ready to go. So we were—where I was stationed, I believe it was—I believe we were only about like two hours from the Czech [Republic] border, um, but yeah. When we went on alert, we would have to be, uh, ready to go, and being in supply, we were in charge of all the, uh—all of the, uh, weapons. So we had to first issue everybody their weapons, and then all of the ammunition and everything. We had to pack up in the trucks, um, and be ready to go, and we went on alert probably about once a month or so. Sometimes, we would actually pull out and go somewhere, and sometimes it would just be a drill. We’d load up the trucks and then unload them, but yeah. That was something we took seriously over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what do you remember most about your service in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, [<em>sniffs</em>], uh, a couple of things. One, uh—speaking of alerts, one was: we, uh—we had an incident—I believe it was with Libya—where we shot down a couple of, uh, Libyan jets. Um, and when that happened, everybody across the—across the globe went on—went on alert. So I remember that, and also, about a month before I left, there was a terrorist attack at the Frankfurt Airport.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, they bombed the, uh—they bombed the Frankfurt Airport. Um, so, uh, uh, that and like, say, the alerts, and, uh, some concerts that I saw over there. I —n fact, I saw the very last concert of Van Halen with, uh, David Lee Roth.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That was their 1984—their 1984 tour [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah[?]. Wow[?], that’s very lucky.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep, I saw them [<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How did you keep in contact with people back at home, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s not like it is today.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I mean, that was, um—it was either mail or phone calls. Um, the mail would take probably a week, and I had a girlfriend back here, at the time, um, and, uh, uh, mail would take about a week, and phone calls were hard, because the only option really, um, was the payphone. So you had to really [inaudible]. I had to write, you know, and say “Hey. Next Sunday I’ll call you at three o’clock.” [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, that’s pretty much, uh,—that’s pretty much, uh, how the communication went, so it was, uh—it was, uh, difficult. I did, uh—when I was in Germany, I did, uh, come home for a month on leave from over there, and that was actually part of the reason why.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me about a typical day in Germany for you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, yeah, we’d get up, and, uh, you know—by the way, you were asking me about one of the, uh—one of my memories from Germany. Um, I was a Florida boy, so that was the first time I’d seen snow.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, um, what I—I—I remember two things about that. One was, um, uh, much to my surprise, it’s actually warmer when it snows…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Than when it doesn’t snow, and that was very surprising to me, ‘cause the coldest days over there was when it didn’t snow at all, but, um, another time, uh—another time, uh, uh, I was walking from—from supply—from where I worked over to the mess hall for lunch, which was only about, uh—I don’t know—about maybe 400 feet or—well, it was probably longer—probably about 200 yards. You know, it wasn’t that far away, but it was cold that day and I had on—I had on everything I owned</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And by the time I got there, I was ready to get inside, but, um, uh, those were—those were two things, uh, that I remember from over there, but, typical day: we’d get up, um, we would have, um, uh, uh—we’d have PT—physical training—at six o’clock. So that’d be our—be our morning formation, uh, make sure everybody was there. Uh, we’d do our—we’d do our exercises, Go for a run, so forth and so on. Uh, and then come back, uh, go get something to eat, and then our next formation was at 8:30 or 8:45. Um, so we’d get our, you know, briefing for the day. Whatever it is that we were going to do, um, and then we’d go to work, uh, um, which, usually, at least one day a week for us involved going on a supply run down to Nuremberg. So I learned how to—how to drive a truck, how to back up a truck with just two side mirrors and towing a trailer.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In a deuce and a half truck. Um, so, you know, we’d—we’d work all day, and then, uh, we’d have our, um, uh, evening formation. We’d have it about 5:45, and then they would lower the flag at five, and, uh, that was a—that was a typical day.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>The whole[?] day?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me how—how you became a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, I had some college when I went in, in the first place. Like I said, I was only in for three years, so when I enlisted, I was already a, uh, PFC [Private First Class]. So I—I went in as an E[nlisted Rank]-3.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, when I—after—After basic and AIT, when I was sent, uh, uh, to Germany, uh, as soon as I got there, the Sergeant, uh, immediately put me in for promotion to E4, uh—Spec[ialist] 4. So I was, uh—I don’t recall how long it took for that to go through. Probably a month or two. So I had a head start, because I had had some college.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they, uh—um, when I was back here at Fort Stewart, uh, for my last year, uh, they promoted me to Sergeant about six months before I got out.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I think part of that—yeah. I think part of that plan was to try to get me to, uh, reenlist.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible] [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Which—yeah. It didn’t work.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>They do that.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do as a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well, then, Uh, I—as a, um—as a private and as a specialist, you pulled a lot you know—you pulled a lot. You pulled the guard duty stuff, you pulled the, you know—the KP [kitchen patrol], uh, that kind of stuff. When I became a Sergeant, um, then I was on the other side of that. so I was, you know, instead of—instead of being on the guard duty, I’d, you know—once a month or so, I’d be the NCO [non-commissioned officer] in charge at the barracks, ‘cause—‘cause, at night, at five o’clock, when everybody gets off, um, you had to have a, uh, Sergeant and a, uh—and a, uh, non-NCO that[sic] would be on duty for the whole night, you know, in case something happened. So, uh, then I became more in the management…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I guess you could say. Yeah. With, uh, zero leadership training, at the time [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did that change overtime? Did you develop some sort of leadership, after a while?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, I—it was only six months. Like I said, I was promoted six months before I’d got out. So, um—yeah. You know, I learned a few things, But, uh, really the, eh—not ‘til later. Not ‘til after I got out and I reflected on, um,—I—I don’t want to say mistakes that I’ve made—just, um, inexperience, you know? And, uh, reflecting on them later is when they really paid dividends, but yeah. I really didn’t have enough time left in my enlistment to, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Learn a lot of lessons. Although, they did—they did—they tried to, uh, get me to reenlist to go to Warrant Officer [Candidate] School.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Interesting[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, you said no. Why?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, first of all, I had never, um—I, you know—I had never intended on making the military a career. Um, but also, you know, I was in a—in a, uh—in a really tough time, because I was in from 1983 to 1986. Um, and that was just, Uh, you know—that was just—what? Ten years after the end of the draft and eight years after the end of Vietnam [War], and I guess it would be three years after the failed, um, Iran hostage rescue.<a title="">[3]</a> So, you know, when I was in, you know, the, um, you know—the military was really beaten down. The, uh, bu—uh, a lot of the equipment we had was left over from Vietnam. Um, a lot of the good soldiers—particularly in the NCO ranks—a lot of the good soldiers, uh, had retired after Vietnam, and right in the, uh—at the end of the [19]70s, um, uh, you know, Cart—during the [James “Jimmy” Earl] Carter[, Jr.] administration, the—the—the defense budget had really been cut to almost nothing, you know? So the equipment wasn’t being updated, uh, you know, because of the budget cuts. The good soldiers were getting out. You know, they weren’t reenlisting. They weren’t able to attract good, uh, recruits, but then, you know, when [Ronald Wilson] Reagan came in in ‘80, he spent basically all of the ‘80s building all of this back up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, but I was in kind of at the beginning of that, and, you know, in retrospect, I—I, you know—again, at 20 years old, I didn’t really understand this, at the time, but, um, you know, in retrospect, uh, what he was doing was he was putting a lot of his, uh—a lot of the, uh, defense budget money—particularly in the early years—into modernizing the equipment. You know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>The Stealth Bomber,<a title="">[4]</a> the [M1] Abrams Tank, that kind of stuff. Um, so it wasn’t really going into training yet.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that didn’t really kick in, until later in the ‘80s, and, uh, it paid dividends, as we saw in [Operation] Desert Storm, you know, in—in ‘91—I guess it was—Or 1990—‘91.<a title="">[5]</a> Whatever that was. Uh, it paid dividends then. Um, So I just—I—I didn’t, um—uh, I didn’t, you know—I wanted to go in. Um, I—I wanted to, uh, you know, experience the lifestyle. I, you know—I—I had—I had, uh, um, you know, admired what the—what the American soldier stood for, you know? And I wanted to go and experience that, but I never intended on making it a career, and when I got in there, um, you know, we weren’t—we weren’t really doing a whole heck of a lot of training, at that time. So I just wanted to get out and move on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, so what did you do when you came back to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I went back to school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, I had had some, uh—uh, I had, uh, um, almost two years of college before I went in. Uh, I came back. I finished, uh—finished up my AA [Associate of Arts], um, and then got the Bachelor’s, uh got the CPA, uh, and, you know, so forth and so on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, did you do any service in Orlando? Or was it straight from Germany back to—you were done, after Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No, no, after Germany—I spent, uh, 18 months in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>A year and a half in Germany, and then, I was sent to Fort Stewart, Georgia, for my last year. So I spent my last year…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In Fort Stewart, Georgia, um, which is where I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>That would be [<em>laughs</em>]—yeah. Um, yeah. If I’d have known how good I had it in Germany…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>I would have stayed there [<em>laughs</em>], because, uh, the—one of—one of the things that I didn’t appreciate is that, over in Germany, um, you know, we all wanted to travel, You know, which—by the way, is[sic] some other memories I have of Germany—is doing something with traveling over there. Um, but, you know, we all wanted to travel, including the Officers, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they wanted to get off on a Friday and, you know—and go travel, as well. Well, at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there’s not really a whole heck of a lot to see. So, uh, there wasn’t—wasn’t much to do, except sit on post and work [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh—but the thing about it: I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry—and this was actually, um, I believe, part of, uh, Reagan’s, uh modernization—is we were actually a rapid deployment force there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So we were, uh—we were, um, uh, trained so that, within two hours’ notice, uh, we could go anywhere in the world, uh, and be there within 24 hours, and ready to go. Um, one of the things that we did, uh—eh, even though there wasn’t a lot of training going on, at that time—One of the things we did do, um, was, every year, the unit would go out into the, uh, [Fort Irwin & the] National Training Center, out in the, uh, Mojave Desert and, uh, do desert training, which, uh, came into play in, uh, Oper—in, uh, Desert Storm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Because, uh, when that kicked off, of course, in the deserts of, uh, Iraq and Kuwait, uh, the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division—my old unit—was, uh—played a—played a pretty key role in that, uh—in that, uh, campaign. Uh, be—Again, because we had—we—we—we’d get a desert, every year. In fact, uh, when—the year I was in with them, we went to the Mojave, but the year before that, uh, they actually went to the Sahara Desert and trained for a month over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Were you happy you didn’t have to go anywhere near there?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. I felt bad, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>When—when we were in the—when we were in the Mojave, we were there from mid-July to mid-August.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, unlike being cold in Germany, it was hot.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Out there, and, uh, I really felt and I have a lot of respect for the soldiers, uh, in the, uh—in Desert Storm. Because, uh, they were, you know—that kicked off in January[, 17, 1991], and I—I can’t help but think that there was—the time of that was the cooler weather, but I remember seeing on TV. I remember seeing, uh, video of them training in the summer, and ‘cause one of the things they were worried about was the, uh—was gas attacks.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And I remember seeing them in the summer, running around in the middle of the desert in full chemical suits, and I don’t know that I could have done that in my best day. I have a lot of respect for those guys, because we used wear those chemical suits. They have, uh, charcoal in them, and, um, uh, we used to wear those thing to stay warm in snow, and they were running around in those things in the summer, over in, uh—over in Kuwait, getting ready for that, and, uh—I don’t—I don’t—I do not know how they did it. So yes. I’m glad I—I’m glad I was not part of that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And, um, Between Germany and your service in Georgia and South Carolina, what was your, uh, most—most—most memorable about your time in the service? [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, my gosh. Um, I think the comradery, as—as cliché as that may sound.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>It’s actually very true, because, uh, you know, especially in your training—and particularly, in basic and AIT—you know, there’s kind of an us-against-them, you know, mentality, because, you know, they’re, you know—part of basic training, uh, you know, as they tell you—which is true—is, you know, they gotta break you down to build you up, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>So, um, you know—so we were, you know—we were really banding together to survive, uh—to survive that, and then, you know, even in the units, uh, you know, you build up a comradery with, uh—with, you know, your friends, and they’re the people you work with, Um, and, uh, you know, which carries over into going out at night, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>You know, uh, Going out, you know, and, uh, doing your thing, but when you’re, you know—when you’re going out with, uh, you know, 12 brothers, you know, and you would trust any of them with your life, um, that’s—that’s, uh—That’s a rare connection, and that’s what—that’s what I miss the most and that’s—that—and that’s what I remember. That’s what I remember the most.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm. You remember the people.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Like I say, uh—like I say, the, uh—comradery.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do during your free time?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Travel?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Did some—no. I did some growing up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /> </strong>I did some growing up. I, um—‘cause I was, uh—when I went in, you know, I was in my party phase.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, you know, especially, when I hit[?] to Germany. Uh, Oktoberfest [<em>laughs</em>], uh “Ein bier, bitte?” Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, that whole thing. Um, my first—my first six months in Germany, when I wasn’t, uh—when I wasn’t working, I was, uh, trying to sample every beer that, uh, Germany ever made.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and after about six months, you know, I—I woke up, uh—I woke up one day, and realized that I had been there six months, and I had nothing to show for it, you know? And about that same time—I’d, uh—I’d—I had been a musician my whole life—and about that time, I kinda was, uh, re—uh, uh, re-interested in music, and, um, I actually, uh, started, uh—started playing music again. So I started—I kinda[?]—I really, you know—I quit the partying, um, and I would spend a lot of time playing music. In fact, uh, the first band I ever played in my life was over there</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Was over there,in German, Which would be—qualify as another memory from over there [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, But I—but that’s what I did. I kinda, you know, like I said, grew up a little bit, uh, got over the partying thing, and started, uh, laying the groundwork for the future.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>There you go, and, um, when you came back—right when your service ended—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, it was a tremendous sense of freedom.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. I bet.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, you know, when you’re a soldier, uh, the government owns you 24-7, 365, and, um, uh, you know, when, you know, we—Up in Fort Stewart—and Germany, for that matter, but, uh—you know, in Fort Stewart, uh, you know, we’d go to the field a month at a time, so you—I mean, you’re there for a month, you know? Um, and it—It was the freedom getting out, and, uh, you know, I was—I was used to, you know—for three years, I had—I had woken up every morning at 5:30 or so, and exercised at six, and, uh, I, you know—I was determined to continue doing that, which lasted about two weeks [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But, uh, big, big, big sense of freedom</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And pride.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I was proud of what I did, um, Even though, you know, at that time, uh, you know—at that time, we really weren’t heralded, uh, as heroes, like the soldiers are now, and rightfully so, ‘cause like, you know—like I say, it was, you know—it was only about 10 years after Vietnam</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And everybody was kind of over the military. They—they were—they were tired of hearing about it, and they really, you know—They just really didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh. When you left the military, did you—I know you went back and did your education—but did you work at all, while you were doing that? Or did you just go straight into school?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, no, ‘cause I got out, uh—I got out in November, so I got out November 8<sup>th</sup>[, 1989], um, and I enrolled for the, uh—for the spring semester the following January [1990].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so yeah. I did, you know—I did work, but my main focus was on school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>School?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, and that was—that was part of the growing up—‘cause that’s part of the growing up in the military, but also, when I was in, I—I had the, um—I had the, uh, v[eterans’] benefits, which was the—the successor to the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[6]</a> So I actually, um—I actually earned college money…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That, uh—while I was in there—while I was there. Yeah. When—when I was in Germany, I tried to take a college class over there. That didn’t work out too well.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—no. So when—when I got out, I was—I was, uh—I was pretty head strong on going back to finishing school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s good.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, did you keep in touch with any of the people you served with?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I did not, until, um, uh, really, just a couple years ago, and it was, uh, primarily, uh, thanks to Facebook, but, um, I’ve, uh—I’ve actually only, uh—well, I take that back, because there was one guy down in Tampa. Uh, uh, my roommates in, uh—in, uh, Fort Stewart—one of them lived in Tampa, the other was from Virginia, and I did—right after I got out, I kept—kept in touch with them a little bit, but, um, I actually really didn’t keep in touch with anybody, until, uh, one of my best friends from Germany, um—we had a, uh—we had a reunion, uh—uh, I guess it was—eight—nine months ago. Him[sic] and his family were coming through town here to go on a cruise, and, uh, that was the first time I had seen him in, uh—in 20 years, and, uh—and, uh, we had a—we had a good chat about the—about those times, and It was interesting to me, becau—because, it was, you know—I had my perspective, but it was interesting to me to get someone else’s perspective on the same experiences, uh, from—from 20 years prior.</p>
<p>So—yeah, and I did—now that I think about it, I did, um—oh gosh. This was probably a good 10 years—No. it’s more than that. Probably a good 15 years ago, uh, My Sergeant from—from, uh—from Germany, uh,—I did go and see him. He was—he lived up in Atlanta[, Georgia], and I did go and see him one weekend, and, uh, it was—it was kinda—it was interesting, you know, because, when you’re, you know—when he’s your Sergeant, you have one relationship, But when you’re both civilians, you know, 20 years later, uh, you can talk a little more freely, I guess you could say, and he was a good guy. That was another, um—you’d asked me earlier about, uh, influences and memories and stuff, and he was—he was, uh—he was a big influence on me. Sergeant Jones—he was, uh—he was a big influence—Sergeant Wilson Jones. Uh, He was a, uh, big influence on me. He was one of the best bosses that[sic] I ever had in my life, and, uh, I learned a lot about, um—I learned a lot about initiative and perseverance, uh, from working under him. He was—he was a good guy, and he’s still alive, to my knowledge.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>To my knowledge, he is.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, so maturing, growing up, and, uh, Sergeant Jones. Was there anything else, with your time in the military, uh, service—or, military service, that influenced your life since leaving?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Yeah, you know, uh, you know the—I learned the military changes ya, and, you know, whether it changes you for the good or the bad, I think it kind of depends on the individual, and the experiences that you have in there. Um, you know, Like I say, uh, I was fortunate enough, where we didn’t have any conflicts, um, going on, at the time. So, uh, you know, while—while I was standing on the wall, wolf—the wolf never came, and I’m happy about that.</p>
<p>But—no. The—the military changes you, and, you know, you—my maturation process, in that, you know, I learned a lot about, uh, you know, initiative, a lot about perseverance…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, self-esteem. In fact, you know, uh, Sergeant Jones—I reminded him of this story: when I—when I saw him, uh—it’s probably been a good 15 years ago, but, um, uh, you know, one time—and again, you know, 20 year old kid, you know? I don’t remember what exactly the details were, but he had sent me back to the supply room to find something. You know, so I went back there, and I looked around, and I didn’t found[sic]—find it. So I came back, and told him—I said “Hey, Sergeant,” You know, “I couldn’t find it.” and he said “Well, then you didn’t look.” And I said, you know— I was like, “What are you talking about? I just—I just got back from there. I couldn’t find it.” He said “No, if you had looked, you would have found it. Now go back there and find it.” And He was right. You know, it was back there, I just didn’t look hard enough.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that, you know—that’s one of the—I, you know—I could sit here the rest of the day, telling stories like that, but, um, you know, that’s something that’s carried with me through—really, through today. Um, you know, when I was working, I remember a, uh—a colleague of mine, when I was earning my PhD—um, I was, uh, uh, uh, you know—PhD is a stressful, stressful thing to go through, and I was—something was going on, and I was wound up about it, and I remember him saying, you know, “Hey,” you know, “Don’t worry about it, ‘cause you’re a warrior,” You know? You’re—Even though this is going on now, you’ll still be okay, because—and That’s directly rooted back into—into my military experience, in that, you know—in that perse—that perseverance.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so—yeah. All sorts of, you know—all sorts of, uh, uh, values, um, you know, that I—that I learned, and, you know, some of them were good. Um, uh, some of them were good. You know, I saw some, uh—uh, some experiences—not—I saw some things that I—that set a bad example for me, uh, which served me well, because I didn’t want anything to do with that. You know, so—yeah. Lots of—lots of things.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So what advice would you give today’s military members?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, phew. That’s a tough one, uh, you know, because we’ve got some conflicts going on in the world right now.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Also, when you enlist right now, uh, it’s quite possible you might end up in a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, so I would, you know—I—I would measure my words carefully, but, uh, you know, barring the combat part of it, um, you know, I would say—I would say to enjoy the time, and, uh—especially if you get sent overseas. Um, uh, uh, do some traveling. That was one regret that I have about my time in Germany is that I didn’t do a lot of traveling. We did some, uh, traveling. You know, Spain and France.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>We—we did some traveling, but, um, uh, I would like to have done a lot more traveling, in retrospect. Um, uh, and serve with honor. You know, that was One of the things that, uh—that attracted me to the military in the first place, uh—was, you know, uh, I saw examples of soldiers, and, they’re, you know—they’re people that[sic] are, um, uh, you know—that[sic] are serving something greater than themselves. You know, they’re making a sacrifice that’s not, uh, you know—they’re not just in there for self-serving reasons. They’re serving, you know, the freedom of the country, um, and, you know, again, that comradery. They’re just, you know—in short, they’re just something greater than—than themselves, and, you know, my advice would be, uh, to enjoy that, because, uh, it may end, when you get out of the, uh—when you get out of the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Alright. So, uh, what do you do in your free time now?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, surf [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>You still surf?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, I surf. I, you know, spend as much time with my daughter as I can.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, You know, still, uh—still working out. Uh, I have all sorts of hobbies. I like to cook. Uh, I fly radio-controlled airplanes. In fact, one of my recent hobbies—as of about two years ago, um—is, uh—is shooting. Uh, when I—When I went into the military, you know, I was a city boy.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>So I never grew up around guns or anything. Uh, And when I went in the military, uh, obviously, we shot. Uh, you know, I—I had, uh, a lot—we—we—I had some fun experiences on the range, shooting some, uh—some of the automatic weapons, and, uh, there was—there was a lot of those fun experiences in there, but I never really thought much about it, you know? It was just something we did.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And when we went to the range, I always enjoyed it</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh,but I never really—never really thought much about it. So, when I got out, um, you know, I never owned a gun. I was never around a gun. I just never thought about it. About probably three years ago now, a friend of mine, um, who was into guns, you know, said “Hey. You wanna come out to the range with me one day?” And I said, “Alright. Yeah. I haven’t shot, you know, in 25 years”—or however long it’s been. So I went out with him, and, uh, you know, what I was trained on was the M16 [rifle].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And the civilian version of that is AR-15.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So he had an AR-15. Um, you know, when I went out—when I took basic training, it was cold—we went out on a cold day, and, uh, I went out there, and, uh, you know, he gave his AR-15, and I did all that I knew to do, which was, you know, the way that I was trained in the military. So, you know, I got down into my prone position on the ground, and, you know, I put about six rounds in about, you know—about an inch in the target, and was thinking, <em>Man, maybe I missed my calling in life here</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br />‘</strong>Cause I hadn’t shot, you know—I hadn’t even picked up a weapon in 25 years, but being out there in the cold, um, you know, and the smell of the gun powder when you shoot it, and then—and then, remembering how to shoot, uh, you know, was muscle memory, um, and it all came back to me, and that was a, uh—that was a pleasant memory, because I—I remembered, uh, you know, those—those were always good times in the military, going out in the range, and that’s actually become, uh, one of my hobbies.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, you know, I own—I own several guns now. We go out—we go out shooting, about every Saturday morning, uh, on the range. Um, and that’s, uh—that’s a—that’s kinda reminiscing</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Over the, uh, uh—from the, uh—from the military days, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Do you ever take your daughter with you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, I took her once. She’s, uh—she’s not real, uh, uh, interested in guns, But I did, uh—I did take her out there once, just to show her that there was nothing to be scared of. Um, so, you know, she’s not—she’s not scared of them, but she respects them and stays away from them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, is there anything else you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, oh, my gosh. Um, [<em>sighs</em>] probably—I mean, uh, you know—I’m—I’m—I’m glad I went in. I mean, it—Like I say, it really shaped a lot of the values that I have, uh, these days. Uh, And, you know, it—sometimes—sometimes that’s not always good, because, uh, you know, when I’m, uh—when I’m in, uh—when I’m in, uh, a task mode, then I kind of have a flashback, you know, to the—to the military days, Like with, you know—like with Sergeant Jones. Like, hey, if you got something to do, get it done.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, I don’t want to hear any excuses. Get it done, but, um, no. I was—I was glad I went in. I did, uh—I did a lot of growing up, when I was in there, and, you know, uh, like I said, before I went in, I was not a student. Uh, when I came out, I was a student, and, uh, my—my GPA [grade point average], uh—I don’t know remember exactly what it was—but I got very few grades less than a[sic]—less than an A, uh, when I came out.</p>
<p>So, uh—so no. It was a—it was a good experience. Um, I’m glad I did it. Uh, you know, I respect the, uh—the guys that are going in now, and women—the people that are going in, uh, now, because you gotta—now, um, you know—I—I haven’t looked at the enlistment standards. I’ve never compared them across time, but I, you know—I think you’ve got to be smarter to go in now, because they have all this high-tech equipment…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and they’re doing things now that we didn’t do, uh—that we didn’t do back then. So I really—I really have a lot of respect for the people going in these days. In addition to the fact that, when you go in now, you may wind [<em>yawns</em>] —you may wind up in a combat zone very easily, in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, um—so yeah. I could, uh—I could, uh—I could probably sit here all afternoon…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>If you gave me the opportunity, but I don’t think you have enough tape to do that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, alright. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sturm…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>For your time. It was an honor to be able to interview you</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I very much appreciate you for your time and service.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Veterans’ Day just passed. So we’ll be in touch again, and we’ll have a copy of your interview for you.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I’ll bring it to you on the [UCF] Lake Mary campus…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Because I want to see it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>42 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. There are probably more things I could have thought up. I didn’t know how much tape I…</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially Operation Urgent Fury.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Nuremberg Trials.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Officially Operation Eagle Claw, or Operation Evening Light, or Operation Rice Bowl.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Northrop B-2 Spirit.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> January 17, 1991 – February 28, 1991.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
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