1
100
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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e979574868da94f6a20a3fa283e68f35.pdf
982bb5a46631a8d53dec5fa885f4f54e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Ray Sturm
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sturm
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Ray Sturm (b. 1963), who served in the U.S. Army from 1983 to 1989. Sturm was born in Winter Park, Florida, on October 22, 1963. He enlisted in the Army in 1983 and completed his basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Sturm then served at Herzo Base in Herzogenaurach, Germany. He served in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade and 34th Infantry Division, and achieved the rank of Sergeant.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Katie Hollingsworth in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson, Herzo Base, his rank as Sergeant, Fort Stewart, the 24th Infantry Division, comradery, Sturm's interest in music, and his post-military life.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:02:35 Enlistment<br />0:05:05 Basic training and advanced training <br />0:07:53 Herzo Base<br />0:16:58 Sergeant rank<br />0:22:00 Fort Stewart and the 24th Infantry Division<br />0:25:41 Comradery and music<br />0:28:26 Post-military education<br />0:30:44 Keeping in touch with other soldiers<br />0:33:05 Military's influence on life<br />0:35:35 Advice to current service members<br />0:37:07 Post-military hobbies<br />0:39:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Ray Sturm. Interview conducted by Katie Hollingsworth at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
26-page digital transcript of original 42-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Winter Park, Florida
Fort Jackson, Columbia, South Carolina
Herzo Base, Herzogenaurach, Hesse, Germany
Fort Stewart, Georgia
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sturm, Ray
Hollingsworth, Katie
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
362 MB
228 KB
Medium
42-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
26-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Katie Hollingsworth and Ray Sturm and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Nelson, Harold W. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"><em>The Army</em></a>. Arlington, Va: Army Historical Foundation, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, by the way, I assume this is going to be edited?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No? Okay. Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay. So Today—it is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014, and I am interviewing Dr. Ray Sturm, who served in the U.S. Army as a Sergeant in the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade, 34<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division. I am interviewing Dr. Sturm as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Uh, I was born right here in Central Florida. I was born inWinter Park, uh, in [October 22,] 1963.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a CPA [Certified Public Accountant], and my mom was a homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, how big was your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, just the three of us. Well, and…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Just the three of you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And my grandmother lived with us…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, until I was about 10 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, what do you remember mostly about your childhood?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, what do I remember mostly?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Mmhmm[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, having a lot of fun [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, like—you know, like we, uh, had talked about earlier, uh, actually growing up near the Navy base. Uh, we were just two blocks from the Navy base there. Um, and that kind of impacted, uh—impacted our lives a little bit.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what kind of education did you receive?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, after high school, um, and after, uh, my military service, uh, I got my Bachelor’s, uh, [degree] and Master’s [degree] from University of Central Florida. So Bachelor’s in accounting, Master’s in taxation, um, and then I received a, uh, Doctorate [degree] in finance from Florida Atlantic University.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, before you enlisted, what did you—what sort of things did you enjoy doing?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I enjoyed surfing. I enjoyed surfing and I enjoyed, uh, exercising. I was a—I was always very physical. So I ran track all through high school and—and in junior high. Um, and, uh, anything that involved sports I was, uh—I was interested in doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, were any of your other family members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, yeah. My grandfather, um, was in the Army Corps of Engineers. Um, I think he was—I think that was actually a civilian position, But he was working in that. My, uh, step grandfather was, um, actually drafted in—I believe it was the Army, and, uh, he was drafted at like 40 years old, uh, in World War II. He was not—not very happy about that, and, um, my dad was in the Air Force, Which is what brought us down here to Central Florida in the first place.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah, and, Um, how aware were you of the Cold War, before you enlisted?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, not very. Uh, you know, obviously, uh, I knew it was going on, but, uh, you know, I enlisted at 20 years old, so I wasn’t, uh—I wasn’t, uh, all that aware of, uh—of the Cold War. I was more aware of [the Invasion of] Grenada,<a title="">[1]</a> because I went in right a—a month after that happened. So[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah, uh, what influenced you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, lots of things. Uh, at that time, um, uh, I was in, uh—I was in college, but I wasn’t really a student yet. So, um, you know, I was—I was still—still seeking, and really just everything, at that time, uh, uh, pointed towards the military. Um, one of the rea—one of the main reasons I did go in though was: I had always had an interest in the military. I mean, I could—I could remember, even back in elementary school, doing a book report on World War II. You know, so I had always had an interest in the, uh—in the military, um, and just kind of, you know, the, um, spirit of the American soldier, I guess you could say.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, and, uh, why did you choose the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, because I—when I went in, um, you know—like I said, I went in for a lot of reasons. uh, and I was actually very, uh—you know, I never planned on making it a career, but I did wanna do everything that I could do while I was in. um, and I figured that, uh, if—if I went in the Marines, uh, that I was going to have to be hardcore for three years, whether I liked it or not. Um, I didn’t want to go into the Navy, because the idea of being on a ship for nine months at a time didn’t appeal to me. Um, and I didn’t want to go into the Air Force, because I—I didn’t—I wasn’t aware of some of the, uh—some of the things that you could do in the Air Force, at that time. Um, but, uh, uh, I wanted to—I chose the Army, because I thought it was a good compromise between being, uh—uh, being very hardcore and not so much. So I went in that, uh, figuring that if I really liked it, then I could go that route. Uh, if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, did your dad influence that decision at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Since he was from the Air Force?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, but how did they react when you decided to enlist—your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, my dad being a veteran, um, I—I think they were happy about it. Of course, you know, they’re concerned. You know, a parent—a, uh—a child going in the military is always a concern to the parent, but, um, I think that they were, um—I think that they were happy about it, uh, for the exact reason that it turned out, as the military, uh, um, helps you mature a lot, and you—you grow up—you grow up pretty quick.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what do you remember most—what do you most remember about basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, boy, was it cold [<em>laughs</em>]. I went in—I was in, uh—uh, I went in November—November 9<sup>th</sup>[, 1983]. So, uh—so basic training was eight weeks, although we got, uh, Christmas exodus. So we got—I think we were out for like two weeks over Christmas, Which was very shocking to me, but, um—but it was cold. It was cold. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And why was it cold? Where were you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, it was Fort Jackson[, Columbia], South Carolina, and, um, I did, uh, uh—I did both basic and, uh, AIT [Advanced Individual Training], uh, at Fort Jackson, uh, South Carolina. So I was there from November until probably about March [1984], I guess it would be, and, uh, you know, after I—after I went on from that, you know, I was—I was in Germany. You’ll probably be getting to that, but I was in Germany, uh, and we’d go to the field in the snow and all that kind of stuff, but the coldest day I’ve ever spent in my life was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, um, out on the artillery range.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, just from my job. Ju—just from my job. I—I had wanted to, um—I wanted to go into [Army] Special Forces. Uh, and, uh, kinda—I—I ran into a lot of red tape, uh, start—starting with the fact that, if I had gone that route, I wouldn’t have been able to enlist for another year, and I really couldn’t wait that long, so I went in hoping that I would get in that route. Um, Things didn’t work out like that, but, uh, um, so I just—the—the, uh—really, the only advanced training I had was from my job.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about your job?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I was in logistics. I was in supply, and, um, uh, so, you know, again, I took that at—at Fort Jackson, and, uh, one of the things that I—I learned about that in there is when you watch this—particularly like the old World War II movies—uh, you know, you see the stereotypical Supply Sergeant, you know, with the hat cocked back and the little, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Cigar sticking out of their mouth[sic]. Um, and that’s not—that’s not the way it is. Um, and, especially these days, ‘cause, with computers, they have everything really, uh, locked down. Back then, uh, you could still do some wheeling and dealing, because things weren’t as, uh—as accountable as they are now. When I say “things,” I mean the supplies themselves. It wasn’t as easy to account for them then, but one of the things that—that, uh—that surprised me about that job is: eh, we took the, um—we took the, uh, combat role—not that we saw any combat—but we took that very seriously, because if you think about it, when the enemy attacks, what’s one of the first things they attack? It’s the supply line. So, go—you know, going into supplies sounds like, you know, I guess, wheel and deal…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And smoke cigars, but it’s actually a little more—a little more serious than that. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what was it like going overseas? You mentioned Germany earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was my—that was my first time overseas. Um, you know, again, I was 20 years old, at the time, uh, uh, but it was—it was a little overwhelming, and, uh, I remember, uh—I remember when I first got there, uh, I flew into Frankfurt[, Hesse, Germany], and I was stationed about two hours south of Frankfurt. So I think—I think there were about a half dozen of us or so that were in the van. Um, and as we made our way down there, they’d drop off one by one, and, of course, I was the last one.</p>
<p>But, um, when—when he dropped me off—I’ll—I’ll never forget—When he dropped me off at my duty post, it was just a small air base. So you could walk from the front gate to the back gate in about five minutes, and, um, when he dropped me off, it was an overcast day, cold, and I had no idea where to go, and he spoke no English whatsoever [<em>laughs</em>]. So all he could do was point to this building, and, uh, so I walked in the building and just kind of found my way from there, but, um, uh, that was my initial, uh—initial experience going overseas. Uh, going overseas, uh, in some ways, really formed, uh, a lot of the values that I have today. So I don’t know how in depth, uh, you meant that question to be.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No, that’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Tell me more about it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, um…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How it impacts you today.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, you know, it was a completely different culture, you know? And I—I had, uh—I had never experienced anything like that before. Um, I remember when we were, uh, in process. Because when—when you get in country, uh, for, um—I think we went through two weeks of, um, kind of an indoctrination on the German culture, you know? And again, at that time, it was East [Germany] and West Germany. So we were in, we were—we were in West Germany.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>laughs</em>] they—they would actually hire a local. Uh, it was a German, uh—a Germany lady that came in, and she was just, you know, teaching us basic German phrases and things like that. Um, the very first thing she taught us was “Ein bier, bitte.” So “one beer, please,” of course, but one—one of the first things that really jumped out at me about being overseas was, uh, one of the military personnel’s telling us, uh, um, basically, to, uh, uh, be good boys while we were over there, because at—I don’t know if it’s still this way—but, at the time, there was no such thing as police brutality.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, uh, you know—so the <em>polizei</em> tell you to do something, you do it, ‘cause there is no police brutality over there [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So, um, could you tell me more about what you did in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, that’s when I was with the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade. Um, I was working in the, uh—working in the, uh, supply area over there. So, um, We were stationed—I was stationed at a little place called Herzo Base, which is near Herz—Herzogenaurach[, Bavaria], Germany, which is near Nuremberg, which is where they had the war trials, uh—The German war trials. <a title="">[2]</a> Um, uh, and the air base that I was at was actually an old Luftwaffe, uh, base, and it was right on the hilltop, uh, and where we were stationed, uh, as it was told to me—it’s a pretty interesting story, because, you know, obviously, there’s a[sic] air field out there, but apparently, during World War II, it was a secret air base. So what they would do is: they would, uh—when they weren’t, uh, using it, they would flood the field. So from the air, it would just look like a lake, and then when they—when they wanted to, uh—when they wanted to, uh, use it, then they would drain it, of course, and take off, and land, and do whatever it is that they needed to do. Uh, but the one thing that was kind of, uh, eerie over there was that, um: we had, uh, lots of underground passages, and they were all padlocked shut, and, uh, the rumor was—I don’t—I don’t know if it was true or not—but the, uh—the rumor was that there was, um—actually, in some of them, uh, supposedly, there were some old World War II planes down there, but, uh, they were concerned that some things had been booby-trapped, so apparently, the—all of that was flooded.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, of course, we, uh—we never went down there, but, um—but, like I say, I was there—I was there for 18 months, Uh, um, in the uh Headquarters. It’s called “Headquarters [and] Headquarters Battery.”</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, I read in your biographical data sheet that you would go on alert and get ready for battle. What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was something, uh—yeah. At that time, um, one-fifth of the entire Army was stationed in Germany. Um, and alerts were something that we did take seriously over there, and, um, uh, when we, uh—when we went on alert, then, within about two hours, uh, we had to be ready to go. So we were—where I was stationed, I believe it was—I believe we were only about like two hours from the Czech [Republic] border, um, but yeah. When we went on alert, we would have to be, uh, ready to go, and being in supply, we were in charge of all the, uh—all of the, uh, weapons. So we had to first issue everybody their weapons, and then all of the ammunition and everything. We had to pack up in the trucks, um, and be ready to go, and we went on alert probably about once a month or so. Sometimes, we would actually pull out and go somewhere, and sometimes it would just be a drill. We’d load up the trucks and then unload them, but yeah. That was something we took seriously over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what do you remember most about your service in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, [<em>sniffs</em>], uh, a couple of things. One, uh—speaking of alerts, one was: we, uh—we had an incident—I believe it was with Libya—where we shot down a couple of, uh, Libyan jets. Um, and when that happened, everybody across the—across the globe went on—went on alert. So I remember that, and also, about a month before I left, there was a terrorist attack at the Frankfurt Airport.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, they bombed the, uh—they bombed the Frankfurt Airport. Um, so, uh, uh, that and like, say, the alerts, and, uh, some concerts that I saw over there. I —n fact, I saw the very last concert of Van Halen with, uh, David Lee Roth.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That was their 1984—their 1984 tour [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah[?]. Wow[?], that’s very lucky.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep, I saw them [<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How did you keep in contact with people back at home, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s not like it is today.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I mean, that was, um—it was either mail or phone calls. Um, the mail would take probably a week, and I had a girlfriend back here, at the time, um, and, uh, uh, mail would take about a week, and phone calls were hard, because the only option really, um, was the payphone. So you had to really [inaudible]. I had to write, you know, and say “Hey. Next Sunday I’ll call you at three o’clock.” [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, that’s pretty much, uh,—that’s pretty much, uh, how the communication went, so it was, uh—it was, uh, difficult. I did, uh—when I was in Germany, I did, uh, come home for a month on leave from over there, and that was actually part of the reason why.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me about a typical day in Germany for you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, yeah, we’d get up, and, uh, you know—by the way, you were asking me about one of the, uh—one of my memories from Germany. Um, I was a Florida boy, so that was the first time I’d seen snow.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, um, what I—I—I remember two things about that. One was, um, uh, much to my surprise, it’s actually warmer when it snows…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Than when it doesn’t snow, and that was very surprising to me, ‘cause the coldest days over there was when it didn’t snow at all, but, um, another time, uh—another time, uh, uh, I was walking from—from supply—from where I worked over to the mess hall for lunch, which was only about, uh—I don’t know—about maybe 400 feet or—well, it was probably longer—probably about 200 yards. You know, it wasn’t that far away, but it was cold that day and I had on—I had on everything I owned</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And by the time I got there, I was ready to get inside, but, um, uh, those were—those were two things, uh, that I remember from over there, but, typical day: we’d get up, um, we would have, um, uh, uh—we’d have PT—physical training—at six o’clock. So that’d be our—be our morning formation, uh, make sure everybody was there. Uh, we’d do our—we’d do our exercises, Go for a run, so forth and so on. Uh, and then come back, uh, go get something to eat, and then our next formation was at 8:30 or 8:45. Um, so we’d get our, you know, briefing for the day. Whatever it is that we were going to do, um, and then we’d go to work, uh, um, which, usually, at least one day a week for us involved going on a supply run down to Nuremberg. So I learned how to—how to drive a truck, how to back up a truck with just two side mirrors and towing a trailer.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In a deuce and a half truck. Um, so, you know, we’d—we’d work all day, and then, uh, we’d have our, um, uh, evening formation. We’d have it about 5:45, and then they would lower the flag at five, and, uh, that was a—that was a typical day.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>The whole[?] day?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me how—how you became a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, I had some college when I went in, in the first place. Like I said, I was only in for three years, so when I enlisted, I was already a, uh, PFC [Private First Class]. So I—I went in as an E[nlisted Rank]-3.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, when I—after—After basic and AIT, when I was sent, uh, uh, to Germany, uh, as soon as I got there, the Sergeant, uh, immediately put me in for promotion to E4, uh—Spec[ialist] 4. So I was, uh—I don’t recall how long it took for that to go through. Probably a month or two. So I had a head start, because I had had some college.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they, uh—um, when I was back here at Fort Stewart, uh, for my last year, uh, they promoted me to Sergeant about six months before I got out.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I think part of that—yeah. I think part of that plan was to try to get me to, uh, reenlist.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible] [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Which—yeah. It didn’t work.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>They do that.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do as a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well, then, Uh, I—as a, um—as a private and as a specialist, you pulled a lot you know—you pulled a lot. You pulled the guard duty stuff, you pulled the, you know—the KP [kitchen patrol], uh, that kind of stuff. When I became a Sergeant, um, then I was on the other side of that. so I was, you know, instead of—instead of being on the guard duty, I’d, you know—once a month or so, I’d be the NCO [non-commissioned officer] in charge at the barracks, ‘cause—‘cause, at night, at five o’clock, when everybody gets off, um, you had to have a, uh, Sergeant and a, uh—and a, uh, non-NCO that[sic] would be on duty for the whole night, you know, in case something happened. So, uh, then I became more in the management…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I guess you could say. Yeah. With, uh, zero leadership training, at the time [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did that change overtime? Did you develop some sort of leadership, after a while?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, I—it was only six months. Like I said, I was promoted six months before I’d got out. So, um—yeah. You know, I learned a few things, But, uh, really the, eh—not ‘til later. Not ‘til after I got out and I reflected on, um,—I—I don’t want to say mistakes that I’ve made—just, um, inexperience, you know? And, uh, reflecting on them later is when they really paid dividends, but yeah. I really didn’t have enough time left in my enlistment to, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Learn a lot of lessons. Although, they did—they did—they tried to, uh, get me to reenlist to go to Warrant Officer [Candidate] School.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Interesting[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, you said no. Why?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, first of all, I had never, um—I, you know—I had never intended on making the military a career. Um, but also, you know, I was in a—in a, uh—in a really tough time, because I was in from 1983 to 1986. Um, and that was just, Uh, you know—that was just—what? Ten years after the end of the draft and eight years after the end of Vietnam [War], and I guess it would be three years after the failed, um, Iran hostage rescue.<a title="">[3]</a> So, you know, when I was in, you know, the, um, you know—the military was really beaten down. The, uh, bu—uh, a lot of the equipment we had was left over from Vietnam. Um, a lot of the good soldiers—particularly in the NCO ranks—a lot of the good soldiers, uh, had retired after Vietnam, and right in the, uh—at the end of the [19]70s, um, uh, you know, Cart—during the [James “Jimmy” Earl] Carter[, Jr.] administration, the—the—the defense budget had really been cut to almost nothing, you know? So the equipment wasn’t being updated, uh, you know, because of the budget cuts. The good soldiers were getting out. You know, they weren’t reenlisting. They weren’t able to attract good, uh, recruits, but then, you know, when [Ronald Wilson] Reagan came in in ‘80, he spent basically all of the ‘80s building all of this back up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, but I was in kind of at the beginning of that, and, you know, in retrospect, I—I, you know—again, at 20 years old, I didn’t really understand this, at the time, but, um, you know, in retrospect, uh, what he was doing was he was putting a lot of his, uh—a lot of the, uh, defense budget money—particularly in the early years—into modernizing the equipment. You know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>The Stealth Bomber,<a title="">[4]</a> the [M1] Abrams Tank, that kind of stuff. Um, so it wasn’t really going into training yet.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that didn’t really kick in, until later in the ‘80s, and, uh, it paid dividends, as we saw in [Operation] Desert Storm, you know, in—in ‘91—I guess it was—Or 1990—‘91.<a title="">[5]</a> Whatever that was. Uh, it paid dividends then. Um, So I just—I—I didn’t, um—uh, I didn’t, you know—I wanted to go in. Um, I—I wanted to, uh, you know, experience the lifestyle. I, you know—I—I had—I had, uh, um, you know, admired what the—what the American soldier stood for, you know? And I wanted to go and experience that, but I never intended on making it a career, and when I got in there, um, you know, we weren’t—we weren’t really doing a whole heck of a lot of training, at that time. So I just wanted to get out and move on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, so what did you do when you came back to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I went back to school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, I had had some, uh—uh, I had, uh, um, almost two years of college before I went in. Uh, I came back. I finished, uh—finished up my AA [Associate of Arts], um, and then got the Bachelor’s, uh got the CPA, uh, and, you know, so forth and so on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, did you do any service in Orlando? Or was it straight from Germany back to—you were done, after Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No, no, after Germany—I spent, uh, 18 months in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>A year and a half in Germany, and then, I was sent to Fort Stewart, Georgia, for my last year. So I spent my last year…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In Fort Stewart, Georgia, um, which is where I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>That would be [<em>laughs</em>]—yeah. Um, yeah. If I’d have known how good I had it in Germany…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>I would have stayed there [<em>laughs</em>], because, uh, the—one of—one of the things that I didn’t appreciate is that, over in Germany, um, you know, we all wanted to travel, You know, which—by the way, is[sic] some other memories I have of Germany—is doing something with traveling over there. Um, but, you know, we all wanted to travel, including the Officers, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they wanted to get off on a Friday and, you know—and go travel, as well. Well, at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there’s not really a whole heck of a lot to see. So, uh, there wasn’t—wasn’t much to do, except sit on post and work [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh—but the thing about it: I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry—and this was actually, um, I believe, part of, uh, Reagan’s, uh modernization—is we were actually a rapid deployment force there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So we were, uh—we were, um, uh, trained so that, within two hours’ notice, uh, we could go anywhere in the world, uh, and be there within 24 hours, and ready to go. Um, one of the things that we did, uh—eh, even though there wasn’t a lot of training going on, at that time—One of the things we did do, um, was, every year, the unit would go out into the, uh, [Fort Irwin & the] National Training Center, out in the, uh, Mojave Desert and, uh, do desert training, which, uh, came into play in, uh, Oper—in, uh, Desert Storm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Because, uh, when that kicked off, of course, in the deserts of, uh, Iraq and Kuwait, uh, the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division—my old unit—was, uh—played a—played a pretty key role in that, uh—in that, uh, campaign. Uh, be—Again, because we had—we—we—we’d get a desert, every year. In fact, uh, when—the year I was in with them, we went to the Mojave, but the year before that, uh, they actually went to the Sahara Desert and trained for a month over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Were you happy you didn’t have to go anywhere near there?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. I felt bad, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>When—when we were in the—when we were in the Mojave, we were there from mid-July to mid-August.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, unlike being cold in Germany, it was hot.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Out there, and, uh, I really felt and I have a lot of respect for the soldiers, uh, in the, uh—in Desert Storm. Because, uh, they were, you know—that kicked off in January[, 17, 1991], and I—I can’t help but think that there was—the time of that was the cooler weather, but I remember seeing on TV. I remember seeing, uh, video of them training in the summer, and ‘cause one of the things they were worried about was the, uh—was gas attacks.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And I remember seeing them in the summer, running around in the middle of the desert in full chemical suits, and I don’t know that I could have done that in my best day. I have a lot of respect for those guys, because we used wear those chemical suits. They have, uh, charcoal in them, and, um, uh, we used to wear those thing to stay warm in snow, and they were running around in those things in the summer, over in, uh—over in Kuwait, getting ready for that, and, uh—I don’t—I don’t—I do not know how they did it. So yes. I’m glad I—I’m glad I was not part of that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And, um, Between Germany and your service in Georgia and South Carolina, what was your, uh, most—most—most memorable about your time in the service? [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, my gosh. Um, I think the comradery, as—as cliché as that may sound.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>It’s actually very true, because, uh, you know, especially in your training—and particularly, in basic and AIT—you know, there’s kind of an us-against-them, you know, mentality, because, you know, they’re, you know—part of basic training, uh, you know, as they tell you—which is true—is, you know, they gotta break you down to build you up, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>So, um, you know—so we were, you know—we were really banding together to survive, uh—to survive that, and then, you know, even in the units, uh, you know, you build up a comradery with, uh—with, you know, your friends, and they’re the people you work with, Um, and, uh, you know, which carries over into going out at night, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>You know, uh, Going out, you know, and, uh, doing your thing, but when you’re, you know—when you’re going out with, uh, you know, 12 brothers, you know, and you would trust any of them with your life, um, that’s—that’s, uh—That’s a rare connection, and that’s what—that’s what I miss the most and that’s—that—and that’s what I remember. That’s what I remember the most.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm. You remember the people.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Like I say, uh—like I say, the, uh—comradery.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do during your free time?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Travel?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Did some—no. I did some growing up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /> </strong>I did some growing up. I, um—‘cause I was, uh—when I went in, you know, I was in my party phase.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, you know, especially, when I hit[?] to Germany. Uh, Oktoberfest [<em>laughs</em>], uh “Ein bier, bitte?” Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, that whole thing. Um, my first—my first six months in Germany, when I wasn’t, uh—when I wasn’t working, I was, uh, trying to sample every beer that, uh, Germany ever made.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and after about six months, you know, I—I woke up, uh—I woke up one day, and realized that I had been there six months, and I had nothing to show for it, you know? And about that same time—I’d, uh—I’d—I had been a musician my whole life—and about that time, I kinda was, uh, re—uh, uh, re-interested in music, and, um, I actually, uh, started, uh—started playing music again. So I started—I kinda[?]—I really, you know—I quit the partying, um, and I would spend a lot of time playing music. In fact, uh, the first band I ever played in my life was over there</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Was over there,in German, Which would be—qualify as another memory from over there [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, But I—but that’s what I did. I kinda, you know, like I said, grew up a little bit, uh, got over the partying thing, and started, uh, laying the groundwork for the future.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>There you go, and, um, when you came back—right when your service ended—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, it was a tremendous sense of freedom.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. I bet.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, you know, when you’re a soldier, uh, the government owns you 24-7, 365, and, um, uh, you know, when, you know, we—Up in Fort Stewart—and Germany, for that matter, but, uh—you know, in Fort Stewart, uh, you know, we’d go to the field a month at a time, so you—I mean, you’re there for a month, you know? Um, and it—It was the freedom getting out, and, uh, you know, I was—I was used to, you know—for three years, I had—I had woken up every morning at 5:30 or so, and exercised at six, and, uh, I, you know—I was determined to continue doing that, which lasted about two weeks [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But, uh, big, big, big sense of freedom</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And pride.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I was proud of what I did, um, Even though, you know, at that time, uh, you know—at that time, we really weren’t heralded, uh, as heroes, like the soldiers are now, and rightfully so, ‘cause like, you know—like I say, it was, you know—it was only about 10 years after Vietnam</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And everybody was kind of over the military. They—they were—they were tired of hearing about it, and they really, you know—They just really didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh. When you left the military, did you—I know you went back and did your education—but did you work at all, while you were doing that? Or did you just go straight into school?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, no, ‘cause I got out, uh—I got out in November, so I got out November 8<sup>th</sup>[, 1989], um, and I enrolled for the, uh—for the spring semester the following January [1990].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so yeah. I did, you know—I did work, but my main focus was on school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>School?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, and that was—that was part of the growing up—‘cause that’s part of the growing up in the military, but also, when I was in, I—I had the, um—I had the, uh, v[eterans’] benefits, which was the—the successor to the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[6]</a> So I actually, um—I actually earned college money…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That, uh—while I was in there—while I was there. Yeah. When—when I was in Germany, I tried to take a college class over there. That didn’t work out too well.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—no. So when—when I got out, I was—I was, uh—I was pretty head strong on going back to finishing school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s good.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, did you keep in touch with any of the people you served with?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I did not, until, um, uh, really, just a couple years ago, and it was, uh, primarily, uh, thanks to Facebook, but, um, I’ve, uh—I’ve actually only, uh—well, I take that back, because there was one guy down in Tampa. Uh, uh, my roommates in, uh—in, uh, Fort Stewart—one of them lived in Tampa, the other was from Virginia, and I did—right after I got out, I kept—kept in touch with them a little bit, but, um, I actually really didn’t keep in touch with anybody, until, uh, one of my best friends from Germany, um—we had a, uh—we had a reunion, uh—uh, I guess it was—eight—nine months ago. Him[sic] and his family were coming through town here to go on a cruise, and, uh, that was the first time I had seen him in, uh—in 20 years, and, uh—and, uh, we had a—we had a good chat about the—about those times, and It was interesting to me, becau—because, it was, you know—I had my perspective, but it was interesting to me to get someone else’s perspective on the same experiences, uh, from—from 20 years prior.</p>
<p>So—yeah, and I did—now that I think about it, I did, um—oh gosh. This was probably a good 10 years—No. it’s more than that. Probably a good 15 years ago, uh, My Sergeant from—from, uh—from Germany, uh,—I did go and see him. He was—he lived up in Atlanta[, Georgia], and I did go and see him one weekend, and, uh, it was—it was kinda—it was interesting, you know, because, when you’re, you know—when he’s your Sergeant, you have one relationship, But when you’re both civilians, you know, 20 years later, uh, you can talk a little more freely, I guess you could say, and he was a good guy. That was another, um—you’d asked me earlier about, uh, influences and memories and stuff, and he was—he was, uh—he was a big influence on me. Sergeant Jones—he was, uh—he was a big influence—Sergeant Wilson Jones. Uh, He was a, uh, big influence on me. He was one of the best bosses that[sic] I ever had in my life, and, uh, I learned a lot about, um—I learned a lot about initiative and perseverance, uh, from working under him. He was—he was a good guy, and he’s still alive, to my knowledge.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>To my knowledge, he is.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, so maturing, growing up, and, uh, Sergeant Jones. Was there anything else, with your time in the military, uh, service—or, military service, that influenced your life since leaving?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Yeah, you know, uh, you know the—I learned the military changes ya, and, you know, whether it changes you for the good or the bad, I think it kind of depends on the individual, and the experiences that you have in there. Um, you know, Like I say, uh, I was fortunate enough, where we didn’t have any conflicts, um, going on, at the time. So, uh, you know, while—while I was standing on the wall, wolf—the wolf never came, and I’m happy about that.</p>
<p>But—no. The—the military changes you, and, you know, you—my maturation process, in that, you know, I learned a lot about, uh, you know, initiative, a lot about perseverance…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, self-esteem. In fact, you know, uh, Sergeant Jones—I reminded him of this story: when I—when I saw him, uh—it’s probably been a good 15 years ago, but, um, uh, you know, one time—and again, you know, 20 year old kid, you know? I don’t remember what exactly the details were, but he had sent me back to the supply room to find something. You know, so I went back there, and I looked around, and I didn’t found[sic]—find it. So I came back, and told him—I said “Hey, Sergeant,” You know, “I couldn’t find it.” and he said “Well, then you didn’t look.” And I said, you know— I was like, “What are you talking about? I just—I just got back from there. I couldn’t find it.” He said “No, if you had looked, you would have found it. Now go back there and find it.” And He was right. You know, it was back there, I just didn’t look hard enough.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that, you know—that’s one of the—I, you know—I could sit here the rest of the day, telling stories like that, but, um, you know, that’s something that’s carried with me through—really, through today. Um, you know, when I was working, I remember a, uh—a colleague of mine, when I was earning my PhD—um, I was, uh, uh, uh, you know—PhD is a stressful, stressful thing to go through, and I was—something was going on, and I was wound up about it, and I remember him saying, you know, “Hey,” you know, “Don’t worry about it, ‘cause you’re a warrior,” You know? You’re—Even though this is going on now, you’ll still be okay, because—and That’s directly rooted back into—into my military experience, in that, you know—in that perse—that perseverance.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so—yeah. All sorts of, you know—all sorts of, uh, uh, values, um, you know, that I—that I learned, and, you know, some of them were good. Um, uh, some of them were good. You know, I saw some, uh—uh, some experiences—not—I saw some things that I—that set a bad example for me, uh, which served me well, because I didn’t want anything to do with that. You know, so—yeah. Lots of—lots of things.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So what advice would you give today’s military members?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, phew. That’s a tough one, uh, you know, because we’ve got some conflicts going on in the world right now.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Also, when you enlist right now, uh, it’s quite possible you might end up in a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, so I would, you know—I—I would measure my words carefully, but, uh, you know, barring the combat part of it, um, you know, I would say—I would say to enjoy the time, and, uh—especially if you get sent overseas. Um, uh, uh, do some traveling. That was one regret that I have about my time in Germany is that I didn’t do a lot of traveling. We did some, uh, traveling. You know, Spain and France.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>We—we did some traveling, but, um, uh, I would like to have done a lot more traveling, in retrospect. Um, uh, and serve with honor. You know, that was One of the things that, uh—that attracted me to the military in the first place, uh—was, you know, uh, I saw examples of soldiers, and, they’re, you know—they’re people that[sic] are, um, uh, you know—that[sic] are serving something greater than themselves. You know, they’re making a sacrifice that’s not, uh, you know—they’re not just in there for self-serving reasons. They’re serving, you know, the freedom of the country, um, and, you know, again, that comradery. They’re just, you know—in short, they’re just something greater than—than themselves, and, you know, my advice would be, uh, to enjoy that, because, uh, it may end, when you get out of the, uh—when you get out of the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Alright. So, uh, what do you do in your free time now?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, surf [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>You still surf?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, I surf. I, you know, spend as much time with my daughter as I can.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, You know, still, uh—still working out. Uh, I have all sorts of hobbies. I like to cook. Uh, I fly radio-controlled airplanes. In fact, one of my recent hobbies—as of about two years ago, um—is, uh—is shooting. Uh, when I—When I went into the military, you know, I was a city boy.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>So I never grew up around guns or anything. Uh, And when I went in the military, uh, obviously, we shot. Uh, you know, I—I had, uh, a lot—we—we—I had some fun experiences on the range, shooting some, uh—some of the automatic weapons, and, uh, there was—there was a lot of those fun experiences in there, but I never really thought much about it, you know? It was just something we did.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And when we went to the range, I always enjoyed it</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh,but I never really—never really thought much about it. So, when I got out, um, you know, I never owned a gun. I was never around a gun. I just never thought about it. About probably three years ago now, a friend of mine, um, who was into guns, you know, said “Hey. You wanna come out to the range with me one day?” And I said, “Alright. Yeah. I haven’t shot, you know, in 25 years”—or however long it’s been. So I went out with him, and, uh, you know, what I was trained on was the M16 [rifle].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And the civilian version of that is AR-15.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So he had an AR-15. Um, you know, when I went out—when I took basic training, it was cold—we went out on a cold day, and, uh, I went out there, and, uh, you know, he gave his AR-15, and I did all that I knew to do, which was, you know, the way that I was trained in the military. So, you know, I got down into my prone position on the ground, and, you know, I put about six rounds in about, you know—about an inch in the target, and was thinking, <em>Man, maybe I missed my calling in life here</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br />‘</strong>Cause I hadn’t shot, you know—I hadn’t even picked up a weapon in 25 years, but being out there in the cold, um, you know, and the smell of the gun powder when you shoot it, and then—and then, remembering how to shoot, uh, you know, was muscle memory, um, and it all came back to me, and that was a, uh—that was a pleasant memory, because I—I remembered, uh, you know, those—those were always good times in the military, going out in the range, and that’s actually become, uh, one of my hobbies.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, you know, I own—I own several guns now. We go out—we go out shooting, about every Saturday morning, uh, on the range. Um, and that’s, uh—that’s a—that’s kinda reminiscing</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Over the, uh, uh—from the, uh—from the military days, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Do you ever take your daughter with you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, I took her once. She’s, uh—she’s not real, uh, uh, interested in guns, But I did, uh—I did take her out there once, just to show her that there was nothing to be scared of. Um, so, you know, she’s not—she’s not scared of them, but she respects them and stays away from them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, is there anything else you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, oh, my gosh. Um, [<em>sighs</em>] probably—I mean, uh, you know—I’m—I’m—I’m glad I went in. I mean, it—Like I say, it really shaped a lot of the values that I have, uh, these days. Uh, And, you know, it—sometimes—sometimes that’s not always good, because, uh, you know, when I’m, uh—when I’m in, uh—when I’m in, uh, a task mode, then I kind of have a flashback, you know, to the—to the military days, Like with, you know—like with Sergeant Jones. Like, hey, if you got something to do, get it done.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, I don’t want to hear any excuses. Get it done, but, um, no. I was—I was glad I went in. I did, uh—I did a lot of growing up, when I was in there, and, you know, uh, like I said, before I went in, I was not a student. Uh, when I came out, I was a student, and, uh, my—my GPA [grade point average], uh—I don’t know remember exactly what it was—but I got very few grades less than a[sic]—less than an A, uh, when I came out.</p>
<p>So, uh—so no. It was a—it was a good experience. Um, I’m glad I did it. Uh, you know, I respect the, uh—the guys that are going in now, and women—the people that are going in, uh, now, because you gotta—now, um, you know—I—I haven’t looked at the enlistment standards. I’ve never compared them across time, but I, you know—I think you’ve got to be smarter to go in now, because they have all this high-tech equipment…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and they’re doing things now that we didn’t do, uh—that we didn’t do back then. So I really—I really have a lot of respect for the people going in these days. In addition to the fact that, when you go in now, you may wind [<em>yawns</em>] —you may wind up in a combat zone very easily, in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, um—so yeah. I could, uh—I could, uh—I could probably sit here all afternoon…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>If you gave me the opportunity, but I don’t think you have enough tape to do that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, alright. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sturm…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>For your time. It was an honor to be able to interview you</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I very much appreciate you for your time and service.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Veterans’ Day just passed. So we’ll be in touch again, and we’ll have a copy of your interview for you.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I’ll bring it to you on the [UCF] Lake Mary campus…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Because I want to see it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>42 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. There are probably more things I could have thought up. I didn’t know how much tape I…</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially Operation Urgent Fury.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Nuremberg Trials.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Officially Operation Eagle Claw, or Operation Evening Light, or Operation Rice Bowl.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Northrop B-2 Spirit.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> January 17, 1991 – February 28, 1991.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
210th Field Artillery Brigade
34th Infantry Division
accountants
Advanced Individual Training
advanced training
AIT
alcohol
alcoholic beverages
alerts
AR-15
Army Special Forces
basic training
beers
budget cuts
cold war
colleges
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
comradery
CVHP
David Lee Roth
defense
defense budgets
Desert Storm
desert training
E-3
E-4
education
Enlisted Rank 3
Enlisted Rank 4
enlistment
Federal Republic of Germany
firearms
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Fort Irwin & the National Training Center
Fort Jackson
Fort Stewart
Frankfurt Airport
Frankfurt, Germany
FRG
Georgia
German Air Force
Germans
Germany
Gulf War
Gulf War I
guns
Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
Herzo Base
Herzogenaurach, Germany
HHB
higher education
Iraq
Iraq War
James Earl Carter, Jr.
Jimmy Carter
Katie Hollingsworth
Kuwait
Kuwait War
law enforcement
Luftwaffe
M16 rifles
military training
Mojave Desert
music
musicians
National Training Center
NCO
non-commissioned officers
Nuremberg Trials
Nuremberg, Germany
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Persian Gulf War
PFC
police
police brutality
polizei
Private First Class
range shooting
rapid deployment forces
Ray Sturm
Republic of Iraq
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Wilson Reagan
sergeants
shooting
shooting ranges
soldiers
Special Forces
Specialist 4
State of Kuwait
supply
terrorism
terrorists
Thirty-Fourth Infantry Division
training
Two Hundred and Tenth Field Artillery Brigade
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Special Forces
UCF
University of Central Florida
Van Halen
veterans
veterans' benefits
Warrior Thunder
weapons
weather
West Germany
Wilson Jones
Winter Park
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/215158d1b22ce578f3eea62eb6612695.pdf
d1fd24fc12b62f5a10c38f2dbcff6115
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Grossi, Jared
Interviewee
Holtz, Alan R.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Alan R. Holtz
Alternative Title
Oral History, Holtz
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Operation Desert Shield, 1990-1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Persian Gulf War, 1991
Iraq War
Description
An oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz, who served in the U.S. Navy, during the Vietnam War, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. Born in the Brooklyn borough of New York City, New York, Holtz enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam War. He later joined the U.S. Naval Reserve and helped mobilize Reservists during the Persian Gulf War in 1991. This oral history interview was conducted by Jared Grossi on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, the USS <em>Hancock</em>, the Vietnam War, the Naval Reserves, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:33 Background<br />0:01:45 Enlistment<br />0:02:50 Boot camp and USS <em>Hancock</em><br />0:05:55 Vietnam War<br />0:09:22 Naval Reserves and going back to school<br />0:10:23 Liberty and awards<br />0:12:48 Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm<br />0:14:43 Off-duty activities<br />0:16:07 Keeping in contact with other sailors, injuries, and September 11th<br />0:17:31 Civilian life<br />0:18:55 Lessons learned from the Navy<br />0:19:20 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz. Interview conducted by Jared Grossi in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
13-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 27-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Vietnam
Philippines
Creator
Holtz, Alan R.
Grossi, Jared
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
432 MB
164 KB
Medium
21-minute and 27-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Jared Grossi and Alan R. Holtz.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Matthews, Eamonn, Ben Loeterman, and Will Lyman. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/34145115" target="_blank"><em>The Gulf War</em></a>. Alexandria, VA: PBS Video, 1996.
Anderson, Michael G. <a href="/www.worldcat.org/oclc/27694401" target="_blank"><em>The Air Force Rapid Response Process: Streamlined Acquisition During Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm: Project Air Force Analysis of the Air War in the Gulf</em></a>. Santa Monica, CA: Rand Corp, 1992.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Three.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Today, it is November 11<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Alan [R.] Holtz, who served in the Navy. He served in Vietnam [War] and helped mobilize Naval Reservists during Operation Devert[sic]—Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. He completed his service as an E[nlisted]-6 rank. My name is Jared Grossi. We are interviewing Mr. Holtz as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview at—in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Alright. So Mr. Holtz…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Yes?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Where were you born? </p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>I was born in Brooklyn[, New York City], New York.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi <br /></strong>Okay. What was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>My childhood? It was very good. I, uh—my parents were very, very good. I had three brothers. We had a great time. I really had a good childhood. I liked it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>You, uh—are you the oldest of the brothers?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>No, I’m the second. I have one older brother and the rest are younger than me.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz <br /></strong>Uh, my father was in the Army during World War II, but then he was—but then he, uh—he worked for a packaging company, I believe, in—in Brooklyn.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz </strong>And my mom, uh, stayed home and raised us four kids. I don’t think she worked outside though.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi </strong>Alright. Um, did—Other than your father, did anyone else enlist before you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, my father I had a couple of uncles that were in during World War II, and that’s it. My brother tried to enlist in the Air Force, and I think his vision wasn’t good, so he didn’t—he didn’t make it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what type of education did receive before your service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, right—right out of high school, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How old were you when you enlisted? I mean, you said it was after high school.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, 18.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what caused you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it’s kind of a long story. They had the draft at that time, and people were being drafted into the Vietnam War, and it was, uh, sort of a lottery system, where would they tell you your number and you had a better chance of getting drafted, so I had a pretty good chance that I was going to be drafted. So to get a better choice of where you want to go, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What did your family think of your enlistment?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they—they were happy about it. Like I said, my uncle was in the Navy and said it was the best one of the services, even though my father was in the Army. So they were happy about it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was, uh, boot camp like in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Boot camp—it was—it was very tough for me, because it was the first time I was like away from home, alone there, and not, you know—scared what was going happen, but I ended up doing good[sic], ‘cause I had, uh—I was in pretty good shape. So the physical stuff wasn’t that hard for me, so I—I did good[sic].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, where were you stationed after completing your training?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, after—after boot camp, I went to training in San Diego, California, and the first place I was stationed was onboard an aircraft carrier, U—USS <em>Hancock</em></p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was your experience when you first arrived where you were stationed?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />When I first arrived, it was—it was just very different than anything that I had seen before. Nev—I’d never been on a ship, and it was really big. Um, lot of people. You have to live in, uh—sleeping on a little bunk in a room with a lot of other people. So it was—it was hard to get used to.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Um, what was your instructor like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>In—in boot camp, you mean?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Uh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, he, eh—He was good. You—first you get there, and you’re scared, and you’re—hate them and everything, but you get used to it. Then once you graduate, you appreciate what he did, you know, what he taught you, and everything.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />So you mentioned living on the carrier. What was, uh, the Navy life like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I—I liked it. Once you get out of boot camp, you realize it’s more like a job and it’s not all going to be like you were—like it was in boot camp. So you, uh—you get used to it pretty fast. It was good. It was fun. Some of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, was there any—what was not fun about it?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />What was not fun was the hours. You work a lot of hours, a lot of hard work, and, uh, the thing I got trained for was, uh, personnel, which is human resources. So when you work in human resources and in an office, they—the other people on the ship don’t think you’re doing anything, ‘cause you’re not out there manning the guns, or steering the ship, or anything important. Your, uh—you know, according to them. So you get volun—you get volunteered to do other work to help other departments. So it’s—it’s a lot of work, a lot of hours.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. So what were some of your other duties then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I worked in the—in the laundry, pressing uniforms and stuff, and, um, just, uh, security watches and stuff, go—security. Guard duty is called “watches” in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what were the watches like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, you get different hours, like you’d have f—a four-hour period, where you just, you know, stand guard over something or, you know, security of the ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, what was your assignment during the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I was in the personnel office on the aircraft carrier, and I was, uh, in support of an air squadron, where they—the, uh, pilots would fly off the carrier and do whatever they had to do over there, and just their support, like their—make sure their pay, their paper work got done, you know, transfers, retirements, whatever they had to do. All the office work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, tell me about your, um, Western Pacific [Ocean] and your Mediterranean [Sea] cruise?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />That, uh—well, the Western Pacific was while I was on the aircraft carrier, and where they would go off the coast of Vietnam for a while, and then after that, they would go into different ports. So I got to see a lot of the world over there. It was—it was really good. The Philippines was my favorite place.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh, what made it your favorite place?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, just that the people are very—they’re very friendly. They’re very nice. They—they support, you know—they supported the military. Met a lot of nice people there, and also the, uh, beaches, mountains, everything—just a beautiful place to relax, after being out at sea for a long time. </p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What was the typical day like during this period?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />A typical day? Uh, like I said, there’s—there’s[sic] long hours, and your—Besides the regular office hours, which is—they try to make it eight to five, but then you’re on call and other things come up, so you end up staying there a lot longer or being called in the middle of the night, and then, if you had one of those, uh, watches or some other duties you had to do that—they don’t take the hours away from your regular office work. You still have to be there. So some days you’d be working without any sleep.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What was the food like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />The food was—was actually good. I know people complain about it, but it was—it was good. You had a lot of choices. You got—you don’t have that much time to eat sometimes, but the—the food was really good. They did a—they did a good job.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what would you do to entertain yourself at times?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they had different activities, and s—you know, sports. ‘cause we would like—‘cause when I’m on an aircraft carrier that has a big flight deck, so during the times that they’re not, uh, landing and taking off aircraft, they’re—use it for sports, games, and they had movies, and they—we would get our mail stuff, and they didn’t have the Internet back then, but…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />We could make phone calls and send messages.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Did the Navy change after the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it cha—Yeah. It changed a lot. A lot of things changed.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Could you tell me about some of the changes?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, see, it seemed during the war, they were more relaxed about, you know, haircuts, uniforms, A lot of things. Uh, even—even drug use was pretty prevalent during the Vietnam War, and they didn’t—seemed like they really cared that much, and it went from that to the zero tolerance policy pretty quickly. You know, I guess they realized it was getting quite out of hand [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, tell me about the Naval Reserves.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />They—well, after— after my first four years, I got out for a few months. was going back to school, but then I decided to go back in and I went into the—it was called Training and Administration of the Reserves program, Where I’d work at Reserve centers and air stations, just training—training Reserves, and supporting them, doing there paper work, and keeping records and things.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said you went back to school. Um, what’d you go back to school for?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I—I went back to get an AA [Associate of Arts] degree, which I did, you know, start. When I got out, I started going full-time, but then I went back in the military and went just part-time ‘til I finished then.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright, and then you said you wound up going back in? Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Why’d you decide to do that?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I got married, and then I was going to have a kid. So I thought that would be—I thought that would be a good, uh—good career to have, since I liked it a lot for the first four years. So I decided to go back in and make a career out of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what was your job in the Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, tt was still office work. It was, um, personnel, but, uh, helping with the training of Reserves. Like the Reserves that would come in one weekend a month, and they’d get trained. The—the person—the administrative ones—I would help train them, and also keep all there records and everything for all the Reserves. You know, transfers, retirements, promotions. Everything they do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how did moving up through the ranks change your responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it changed a lot. You get a lot more responsibility pretty quick[sic] from when you first go in and just—I made it all the way up to E6, which is, uh, supervisor. So it’s a lot of responsibility, because you have a lot of other people to worry about and make sure there doing their job as well.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was one of your most memoral[sic]—memorable days throughout your service in your career—in the serving career?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, most memorable days? Uh, I guess, uh, being on a ship and traveling. You know, any one of those days, when you’re—you know, you work hard, but then when you finally get into a port, they give you a lot of time off to do what you want and relax, and I like that part of traveling. Seeing new places.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Traveling must have been fun. Um, what were some of the things you do when you um, would dock at ports?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they would have—they would have tours available, you know, they’re trying to encourage you not to just go out to bars, like some people did. Um, so I didn’t do too much of that. I went on a lot of the bus tours and they had events scheduled for us. Like you could go help, uh, different charity events, go help, like—I remember one time, we painted a church or helped this, uh, shelter for people. A lot of things like that, where you can help the community too. They didn’t want us to just go out there and have fun and leave [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, did your receive any awards?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I’ve got a lot of—a lot of different medals and awards for different things. I don’t even remember them all.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How did you help exactly in Operation Desert Storm and [Operation Desert] Shield?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, that—at that time, I was at a Reserve center, and they mobilized some of the Reserve units to send them over there to—to, uh, well, fight, or set up things, whatever, and so we were—when you’re in the Reserves, they have these drills all the time about mobilizing the Reserves and calling them into active duty, and you think it’s never going to really happen, but that was the real thing. We had to mobilize them—and I think it was about three hundred people from our Reserve units—and get them ready, get them there orders, paper work and everything, and travel arrangements, and send them over there.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said there was[sic], uh, drills and you actually wound up having to do them. Um, did the drills you feel help? Or was the actual event…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, the actual event’s a lot different than—it—it helped—it—the drills helped you prepare for it, but then when it actually happens, they—there isn’t time to actually to do it—there wasn’t time to actually do it step-by-step the way you plan. You know, Set up the incoming—set up the tables, set up the—what forms they’re going to need. So it—it worked out a lot different than you planned, but you still got it done.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, did your experience in Desert Storm and Shield differ from Vietnam?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, yeah. It was a lot different, ‘cause I was just at the Reserve center, and—and preparing these other people to go where I—I—In Vietnam War, I was actually on the ship, right off the coast there, and even though I was working the office, I was more, you know—closer to the action that was going on, supporting the people, but, uh, for that for that—for that operation, I was just at the Reserve center, and getting them ready to go there. So it seemed like it was further from the actual thing.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what kind of activities did you do while off duty? Um, I know you mentioned you—you’d go on tour and stuff…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />During the dockings. Um, was it just—I mean, uh—I guess when you’re off duty, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, just—well, if I’m in a different—At the Reserve center or at the…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Uh, I—just In general</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, if you’re…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />When you were off duty.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, when it—when it—it’s different when you’re off duty overseas. I would just, you know, travel, see, you know—See what I could find, enjoy the scenery and new places, but once I was at Reserves center, Reserves center is in the—in that program, I was back home. So I was married and had kids. So I was just doing normal, you know—normal daily life, and it was more like a regular job, than when you’re on a ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Did you visit back home often?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I would. Yeah, my parents were still in New York most of that time, so I would—I would fly home whenever I could. Get vacation. They gave you a lot of time off in the military, when—when they can.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, when you were back home, what did you do for work or just entertainment then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, spend time with my parents and my brothers, and visiting, mostly.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, did you still keep in contact with any of your friends you made in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I did for a while, but it was hard to do that, ‘cause so many people get transferred, and you don’t see them again, and—So I lost track of a lot of them, but there was a few that I—that I still kept in contract[sic] —contact with.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, could you tell me about some of the injuries you received?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, first injury—first injury I got—when I was working on that aircraft carrier, I worked in the laundry, and pressed my hand down on…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />On the steam press. So that’s how I got that injury. So I call it my “Vietnam War injury,” but not really. It was on the aircraft carrier, working in the laundry, and got—got that hand burned, and some other things: I just hurt my back while I was there, so— but nothing too serious. I’m still able to work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How did, uh, the events of 9/11<a title="">[1]</a> affect you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />How did it affect me? I was—I remember being very angry when it—when it happened, and wishing I was back in the military, so I could go do something about it, you know? Help fight whoever was doing it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How was the transition from the Navy life into the civilian life?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it was very hard, at first, to—when you’re looking for a job, and you try to relate what you did in the military to civilian job. So you work in an office and, you know, you find out that all you’re qualified to do is be a secretary, or something like that. So actually, I was, uh, a medical services secretary, when I first got out. That was the first job they had at, uh, Humana[, Inc.] health care.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how—how has the civilian life affected you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, well—well, I got used to it pretty quickly, and I had other jobs since then, and then finally found UCF [University of Central Florida], which I like.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How have the—the way the civilians treated you over the years—how has that been?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />It’s—it’s been good, mostly. Most people—most people, you know, they appreciate what you did. they—there’s, you know, this preference for veterans, and a lot of jobs that you go for, you know—to at least get you the interview to see if you’re qualified to get the job, but, uh, most people treat you—treat you good[sic]. I never had anybody who didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What lessons, from your time in the Navy, do you consider valuable?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I think I learned a lot about working, do, uh—doing the best job that you can, getting it—trying to get everything done, so you can enjoy your time off, and, uh, doing a good job working with other people—Team work. A lot—a lot of things you learn there, you know, still relates to whatever job you have outside.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Do you have any, uh, unusual or funny stories in your time of the service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not really [<em>laughs</em>]—not really that I can think of. I’m sure there were some.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, now, there’s some unusual things when I was working at the Reserve centers. There sometimes—sometimes, they’re the only military in the area. So they’ve let you—make you volunteer for a lot of different things, like security and different things that you don’t need security for. They just wanted the local military to be there, and doing funerals, and things that I didn’t like to do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, is there anything else we missed or you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not—not really. Not that I can think of.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, do you have any messages or lessons you’d like to pass on to the young—the young people?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, about the military? Just that it—it is a good career. Uh, the benefits are great, now that I’m retired. I did—I did, you know, 20 years. Now that I’m retired, it’s really worth it to, uh—the benefit you get, through retirement, the medical care, everything. So it’s worth it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, questions?</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, well, I’d like to thank you, Mr. Holtz, for your time. I and the UCF community really appreciate you coming out today and telling your story, Um, in the—in the short time in the interview [<em>laughs</em>]. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
1st Gulf War
1st Iraq War
9/11
aircraft carrier
aircraft carriers
Alan R. Holtz
basic training
boot camp
boot camps
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
CVHP
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Desert Shield
Desert Storm
drafts
E-6
education
Enlisted Rank 6
enlistment
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Gulf War
Hancock
instructors
Iraq War
Jared Grossi
Kuwait War
liberties
liberty
military education
military training
naval instructors
North Vietnam
Operation Desert Shield
Operation Desert Storm
Persian Gulf War
Philippines
Republic of the Philippines
Republic of Vietnam
San Diego, California
selective service
September 11th
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
South Vietnam
TAR
terrorism
terrorists
training
Training and Administration of the Reserve
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
USS Hancock
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
watch
watches
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/99f982aa4276b0be0b4f9b69c9e7085a.pdf
3533161dc69dab00593f352cd8d77806
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
McKinney, Roy
Interviewee
Ekern, Sharon
Location
Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
Duration
20 minutes and 14 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
64kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Sharon L. Ekern
Alternative Title
Oral History, Ekern
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Marine Corps
Description
An oral history interview of Sharon Ekern, who served in the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida (UCF) with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. This interview was conducted by Roy McKinney at UCF on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include Ekern's family life, her education, enlistment in the Marines, boot camp, advanced training, her first duty station, the San Diego Recruit Depot, Parris Island, the Cold War, being assigned to Orlando, serving as a female Marine, the Tailhook Scandal, Camp Smith, her awards and medals, life after service, her employment at UCF, and being an expert markswoman.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:40 Family life<br />0:01:05 Family in the Military<br />0:01:19 Education before joining the Marine Corps<br />0:01:45 Reason for enlistment in the Marines <br />0:02:30 Family reaction to enlistment<br />0:02:49 Boot camp<br />0:03:42 View of instructors - then and now<br />0:04:26 Most memorable experience in boot camp<br />0:04:59 Being a woman in boot camp<br />0:05:20 Advanced training<br />0:06:01 First duty station<br />0:06:24 Role at first duty station<br />0:06:37 Typical day at first duty station<br />0:07:20 Life at San Diego Recruit Depot<br />0:08:00 How Parris Island compared to San Diego<br />0:08:20 Cold War's effect on Military life<br />0:08:59 Entertainment in the Military<br />0:09:55 Assignment in Orlando<br />0:11:10 Being a woman in the Marine Corps/ "Tailhook"<br />0:12:55 Memorable moments at Camp Smith<br />0:14:07 Leaving the Military<br />0:14:58 Reason for leaving the Marines rather than applying to Officer Program<br />0:15:31 Highest rank in the Marines<br />0:15:51 Awards and medals<br />0:16:33 Life after the Marines<br />0:17:04 Joining UCF<br />0:17:04 Contracting and purchasing<br />0:17:50 Contact with Marines<br />0:18:06 Military influence on life<br />0:18:37 Utilizing military experience with UCF<br />0:19:15 Expert marksmanship
Abstract
Oral history interview of Sharon Ekern. Interview conducted by Roy McKinney in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 20-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Albany, Georgia
Camp H. M. Smith, Aiea, Hawaii
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, North Carolina
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, San Diego, California
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, Port Royal, South Carolina
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Ekern, Sharon L.
McKinney, Roy
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/pdf
Extent
599 MB
164 KB
Medium
20-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Roy McKinney and Sharon L. Ekern and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Pawelczyk, J. 2014. "<a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5611524379" target="_blank">Constructing American Female War Veterans' Military Identity in the Context of Interviews</a>." <em>Women and Language</em>: WL. 37, no. 1: 87-112.
Chema, J. Richard. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/227212744" target="_blank"><em>Arresting Tailhook The Prosecution of Sexual Harassment in the Military</em></a><em>. Thesis (LL. M.)--Judge Advocate General's School, United States Army, 1993, 1993.</em>
Browne, Kingsley R. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795374552" target="_blank"><em>Military Sex Scandals from Tailhook to the Present: The Cure Can Be Worse than the Disease</em></a>. Duke Journal of Gender Law & Policy. Duke University School of Law, 2007.
Biank, Tanya. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795168521" target="_blank"><em>Undaunted: The Real Story of America's Servicewomen in Today's Military</em></a>. New York, N.Y.: NAL Caliber, 2013.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Today is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014. My name is Roy McKinney and we are interviewing Dr. Sharon [L.] Ekern. She served in the United States Marine Corps from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. I am interviewing Dr. Sharon Ekern as part of the University of Central Florida’s Community Veterans History Project. This interview is being conducted in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Union, South Carolina. September 18<sup>th,</sup> 1962.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My dad retired from AT&T, and my mom, um, who has been passed away for—gosh—uh, 28 years today, as a matter of fact. She worked for the attorney general of South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How big was your family growing up?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was my parents and two sisters.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were any of your family members in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yes. Um, my stepfather was full time National Guard. My uncle is a retired Navy captain, and I have a couple other uncles who served in the Air Force and Navy.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What type of education did you have before entering the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I went to a small, um, junior college, right out of high school, and was there for two semesters. So I had basically one year of college.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Was there any focus of your studies while there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No, not really.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Uh, why did you decide to enlist in the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I had decided during that second semester that I wasn’t ready for college at that time, and I had moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where my grandparents had retired, and there was an Air Force Base there. Uh, so I had met some Air Force friends and decided at that point that I would join the Air Force. And then when I went to MEPs [United States Military Entrance Processing Command] to do my processing, they couldn’t take me until like maybe the following year. It was maybe nine months, and I wanted to leave in the fall when my friends would be going back to school. So, um, I basically—when I got—when I was there at MEPs, I told them to take me to see the Marines. That—I didn’t want to go in the Army. I didn’t like the uniform that the Navy wore. So...</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did your family relac—react to you enlisting?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Eh, well, they had just got used to the idea of me joining the Air Force, so when I came home and told them I was going in to the Marines, Um, it took a little while, especially for my mother and grandmother to get used to that idea.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And where did you go to boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Parris Island, South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel when you entered boot camp and the whole process of going through—just getting there and your first reactions?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was scared to death. Um, my processing station MEPs was in Colombia, South Carolina. And it wasn’t that—maybe two hours or so. We shipped out on a bus to Parris Island, and I was the only female on the bus. and, um, the person at MEPs had, um, gi—given my package to somebody, uh—to one of the guys that was also, uh, sh—shipping out that day, and he got off the bus with my information with this drill instructor just, you know—he came on the bus and was yelling at them get on the yellow footprints. And then I had to get off the bus and go—and go tell him, you know, that somebody had my package. So I was scared to death.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel about you instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Um, how I felt about them now and how I felt about them then is probably different. Um…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How about both?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was—they kind of played different roles. There was one who was more like the motherly type, and one who was just downright mean, and the other one, who was kind of in between. Um, I was really scared of the one that was just mean, you know? I—I’ve actually been in contact recently with our senior drill instructor on Facebook, so it has been kind of nice, um, you know, touching base with her again. She retired—gosh—after—I don’t know—maybe 25 years in the Marine Corps, there at Parris Island. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So what was your most memorable experience at boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>At boot camp? Gosh. Um, probably the physical training. I, you know—I’ve always been, um—well, probably, more so since. I’ve gotten out. I’ve been athletic, but I don’t know that I was totally prepared when I went in, so that was difficult—the ph—the physical training. So that was probably one of my more memorable.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did being a woman affect you in boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Well, in the Marines, we’re totally separate. I know in some of the, um—maybe all of the other branches—they train together, but we don’t. We’re a separate battalion and, uh, we have no contact with the men. So we were all just together.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I went to several schools. Um, I went to a school right out of boot camp in Albany, Georgia. Um, then I went to my first duty station in San Diego. And, I believe, it was after—yeah. It was—it was after I—no. Maybe it wasn’t San Diego—where I went to another, um, supply school at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And then after I came to Orlando, I went into the contracting and purchasing field and went to several schools. They were at Lowry Air Force Base, because, at the time, the Marines didn’t have a contracting school so we went to the Air—Air Force schools.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So where were you stationed after you were done with training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My first duty station was the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. And then, from there I came here to Orlando to the, uh, recruiting headquarters. I was not a recruiter. I did supply, but I—I was at headquarters. And then from there, I went to Camp [H. M.] Smith in [Aiea,] Hawaii.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your assignment or job while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I started out in supply and, like I said at some point, uh, in my career, I changed to contracts and purchasing.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />And, uh, what was a typical day like for you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>We usually got—usually PT [physical training] was, you know, the first thing we did at least three days a week, if not more. Um, you know, we’d have—PT was around six A.M. and then have to be at work at 7:30. Most days were like typical work day. You know, you went to work, you had your lunch—you know, you got off at a certain time. There were other days when there might be inspections or parades or, you know, other things that might be going on. But ordinarily it was like a typical work day.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Can you describe what it was like working at the Marine—Marine Corps Recruitment Depot at Parris Island?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, I didn’t work there. That’s where—that’s where I received recruit training.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Okay. Can you describe what it was like working at San Dieg—the depot in San Diego?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. It was—I mean—San Diego, of course, is beautiful. And, um, it was good. Um, out there they only trained male Marines. They don’t—they don’t train any women Marines out there, but, um, it was, uh—I think it was a—you know, it was a good first duty station, uh, working with all of the recruits and, um, doing the different, you know, jobs that were assigned to me at the time. And then I worked for a colonel, just in his office, for a good bit of my time there.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the environments of Parris Island and San Diego compare?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, well, I mean—it was two totally different experiences. At Parris Island, I was a recruit, you know. I was going through recruit training and at MCRD [Marine Corps Recruit Depot]. I was—I was basically working there. I was a Marine at that point. So totally different experiences.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the Cold War affect everyday life in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I would say, at least for me and my job, um, you know, it di—didn’t have a big effect. We basically did what we were, you know, assigned to do at, um—at the recruit depot. It was training Marines at the, uh, MCRD—I mean, at, um, the recruiting headquarters here, it was enlisting Marines. So, um, in my everyday job, I wouldn’t say it had a big effect.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How would you entertain yourselves, uh, during your service?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, um, hmm. Let me think back on that. Uh, like I said, it was—since I wasn’t a—a grunt, per se, you know, um, I left and I went home most days, unless there was something special going on, or we were out in the field, or had some special training. So, you know, I think we did pretty much what everybody would do. When I was in, um—here at the recruit station, I had a child. So, you know, I had a family just like most people and I did live in base housing. So it was—it’s a different community, Um—a different culture. But I would say we did what most people would do.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Why were you assigned to the recruitment headquarters in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I’m not exactly sure. Uh—we have what’s called a “monitor” in the Marines, and they decide where you’re going to be—be stationed. And, um, they just decide based on when it’s time for you to depart a duty station and what the needs are. Um, you can put in for several different things, um—several different duty stations. And this was just one that I had, you know, put in for that needed a supply person at the time. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, be stationed here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Where else did you, um, apply for a duty station at?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Gosh, you know, I really don’t remember. Um, I know one of them was in Georgia, because I’m in South Carolina. And I can’t recall now where—oh, Macon, Georgia, I believe it was, because it had a recruiting headquarters there. Um, I thought it’d be nice to be somewhat close to home. Um, but besides that, I really don’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you excited when you were assigned to Orlando? Or how did—how did you feel about the…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was excited. Um, I was excited about the job. I mean it is a bit different being in a recruiting headquarters with maybe 15 Marines ver—versus being on a base full of Marines. Uh, so it was going to be something different. And yeah. I was excited about coming to Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was it like being a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm [<em>laughs</em>]. It could be different at times. Um, the period that I was in was before Tailhook [Scandal]—if you’ve ever even heard of “Tailhook.” No?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was a big sexual harassment scandal, uh, that occurred soon after I got out of the Marine Corps. But when I was in, um, basically, sexual harassment—it was—it wasn’t something that you heard about. So—and women at that time, um, depending on where you were and who you worked with—most men—I won’t say most. Some men made it very clear that didn’t think women should be in their Marine Corps. And so it was—it could be difficult at times. I feel like you always had to, um, you know—you had to be the one to give 110 percent, you know, if you were out on runs or just in your everyday job just to prove yourself.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Was there any time that you felt that you had to prove yourself to someone that was—that looked down on you as a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Oh, yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there any—any example that you can—you can tell us?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I don’t know that I can think of just something—like a particular example. It was more the comments—the everyday comments. Um, it was the things—when we did have to go out on marches or runs, and there were women who couldn’t keep up and, you know, there were women who made up excuses<strong>. </strong>And, you know, that—I think that made it harder for the rest of us, but…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Are there any specific events during your service that stand out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> Events such as?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Um, anything. Um, s—something that you enjoyed, or something that you didn’t enjoy, or just something that sticks out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. At Camp Smith—Camp Smith is built on like the side of a big—I guess you’d call it a mountain. Um, so everything we did was either going up or going down. So anytime we PT’d, we were either running up or we were running down. And we would go on like these marches with, you know, the packs and the Kevlar helmets. And along the side of this mountain—and you’d look down and there wouldn’t be much over there. So that has always stuck out in my mind a lot.</p>
<p>But it was also beautiful there, which, um—I mean, I will definitely have to say I really enjoyed probably being in Hawaii the most, where we were at Camp Smith. Um, with it being on the side of a mountain, you know, we’d look out one side of where we worked and you’d see, um, Diamond Head and look out the other side and there was Pearl Harbor. I mean, it was—it was just a beautiful place to be.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And when did you leave the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>1990.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your last day like in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Sad. Yeah. Really sad. Um, you know, it—even though it was my choice to leave, uh, I had just kind of come to a point where I had to decide. I had finished my bachelor degree and I had to decide if I wanted to, um, try to get into an officer program or, you know, or to get out. And I had made that decision at that point to get out. And, uh, even though I had, you know—it was still difficult to do. You know, I had done this for nine years, and I really, um—I really liked what I did. I felt proud of what I did and I still do. So it was hard going from that to the unknown, you know.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What motivated you to decide to leave the Marines and not go into an officer program?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, an officer program isn’t a guarantee. So if I had signed another enlistment, you know, for three to four years, there’s no guarantee that I would have gotten an officer program. And at the time, I had a three year old son, um, and was a single parent. So that had a lot to do with it.</p>
<p>Um, [Operation] Desert Storm<a title="">[1]</a> was right on the horizon. That started like three months after I got out. So at that point, I did feel like I had, you know, made the right decision. But…<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was the—your highest rank, uh, at the time you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was an E[nlisted Rank]-5 Sergeant, but I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee. Meaning: I had been selected for the next rank. Um, but you just have to wait for a certain date. Um, so I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you awarded any, uh—any awards or medals or citations?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. There were several things, like good conduct medals, national, uh—no. meritorious, um—oh gosh. I had it on my, um, commendation medals, meritorious. Uh, can I look at my DD [Form] 214 [Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty]? I’ve got it with me.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>‘Cause I thought I might not remember something [<em>laughs</em>]. Let’s see. Meritorious unit commendations, um, certificate of commendations, good conduct medals, meritorious mast, certificate of appreciations, letter of commendations and recognition. So those kinds of things.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you do after you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I decided to come back here to Orlando. Um, I didn’t have a job, at the time, lined up, but, um, I had real—I liked Orlando when I was here, uh—when I had been stationed here. And Orlando was sort of close enough to home, but not, you know, too close. So, uh—and I still had some friends here. So I decided to come back to Orlando. I had a job. I had a civilian job, um, for about six months before I started work here at UCF [University of Central Florida].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you come—how did you come—become involved with UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, when I—I—like I had said, I was a contract—I did contracts and purchasing when I was in the Marines. And, um, the job opening here was for the assistant director of purchasing. So I had applied for that and got that job. So that was my—my first position here. So my training in the Marine Corps had, you know, a direct effect on what I do now.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I know this is kind of late but what does contracting and purchasing entail?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, basically we purchased anything that, you know, was needed there on the base. So, it’s—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anyone you still keep in contact with from the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mostly on Facebook. So that’s been a—yeah—a good way to connect with people. And then, um, I went to my first Marine Corps ball in like 25 years this past weekend. So that was—that was really nice. Brought back a lot of good memories.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Do you feel your Military experience changed you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Oh, yes. Definitely. Yeah. Um, like I—like I said, it’s—it’s such a different culture. It’s—it’s even hard to explain, you know? It’s—it’s like I had a 100,000 big brothers and they could pick on me, but nobody else could. And, you know, the—the skills and the leadership, and the, um—they’re just all things that I don’t think I could have learned anywhere else.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you find it easy incorporating that into—your Military experience into your career here at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong> I think it was difficult in the beginning, because the Military is very, you know, black and white. Um, and coming here wasn’t exactly that way. So, even in purchasing, now there are a lot of rules and regulations, uh, in the field of purchasing with the State [of Florida]. It’s still very different than, um, being in the Military. But I think my work ethic, my discipline, um, you know, leadership—I think all of those skills were definitely transferable to what I do here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to talk about with us today?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Hmm. I can’t really think of anything at this time.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I noticed that you had, uh—you were an expert marks[wo]man in the M16-A1…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How was, uh—do you still shoot?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No. I don’t. I did it with my son a couple of times, but it’s been awhile. Um, as a matter of fact, when I first went into the Marine Corps, women did not even qualify with the rifle, which they all do now. But, um—so, in San Diego, that was the first time I’d had to do rifle qualifications, and I was actually second on the—on the, uh—uh, at the range that week. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah. I noticed it said you were “expert marksman.” That’s very impressive.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Expert with the rifle. Only a marksmen with the, uh, pistol. But yeah, I was a good shot [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I’d like to thank you for joining us here today, for helping us out with the Community, uh, Veterans [History] Project and thank you for your service.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> First Persian Gulf War.</p>
</div>
</div>
A1
advanced training
Albany, Georgia
assistant director of purchasing
basic training
boot campRemoves
Camp H. M. Smith
Camp Lejeune
cold war
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
contracting and purchasing
CVHP
Denver, Colorado
Desert Storm
E-5
Ekern, Sharon L.
Enlisted Rank 5
expert marksman
expert marksmen
First Persian Gulf War
Hawaii
Jacksonville, North Carolina
Lowry AFB
Lowry Air Force Base
M16
Marine Corps Ball
Marine Corps Recruit Depot
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego
marines
McKinney, Roy
MCRD
MCRD Parris Island
MCRD San Diego
MEPs
Military Entrance Processing Command
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Parris Island, South Carolina
physical training
PT
Roy McKinney
San Diego, California
Seargant
servicewoman
sexual harassment
sexual misconduct
Sharon L. Ekern
Staff Sergeant Selectee
Student Development and Enrollment Service
Tailhook Scandal
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Marine Corps
UCF
University of Central Florida
USAF
USMC
veteran
veterans
woman
women
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/96ef7c2cbd663cfba7044fdc015e951d.pdf
3ce052d3842e4f16e2ff28def70d7638
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Vietnam War Collection
Alternative Title
Vietnam Collection
Subject
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Veterans--Florida
Description
The Vietnam War was a Cold War Era "military conflict." The war was originally waged between Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos. The United States became involved as a preventive measure to combat communism. The date of the war has been disputed, but a study in 1998 by the Department of Defense definitively put the start of the Vietnam War as November 1, 1955.
The first combat military troops 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade didn't arrive until 1965. With the arrival of the combat troops came the first traditional battles of combat fighting in the war. During the Vietnam War, not only did American military go into battle with and for South Vietnam, the military also trained members of South Vietnam to fight alongside during the war. Peace talks were attempted, with France moderating, beginning on May 10, 1968. These talks were unsuccessful and lasted over three years.
The longest battle of the Vietnam War began on January 21, 1968 and didn't end until the U.S. reclaimed Route 9 on April 8, 1968, 77 days later. While the military conflict ended in April of 1975, it was a long process towards reunification and redevelopment as a country. The conflict left Vietnam in both political and economical ruins.
Contributor
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Vietnam
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
External Reference
<span>"</span><a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a><span>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.</span>
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
"<a title="American Experience" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html" target="_blank">American Experience</a>." Public Broadcasting Company. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Hanke, Gabrielle
Interviewee
Blank, William "Bill"
Location
Orlando, Florida
Original Format
Digital (DAT)
Duration
45 minutes and 8 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
157kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Dr. William "Bill" Blank
Alternative Title
Oral History, Blank
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Persian Gulf War, 1991
Cold War
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Yom Kippur War, 1973
Iraq War, 2003-2011
World War II--United States
Description
An oral history of Dr. William Blank, who served in the U.S. Army (USA) from 1971 until 1974. Dr. Blank ultimately reached the rank of Specialist 4 and was stationed in Mannheim, Germany. Now the Director of Career Development at the University of Central Florida (UCF), Dr. Blank discusses his experiences during and after his military service. Some of the topics include the Yom Kippur War and the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, benefits of being in the military, personal experiences in Europe, the evolution of the military and public opinion of veterans, working with international students, and opinions of the military today and modern conflicts.
Table Of Contents
0:00:01 Introduction
0:00:32 Entering the Military
0:03:32 Training and assignment
0:04:59 Feelings on the Vietnam War
0:07:17 First experience in Germany
0:08:41 1972 Summer Olympics
0:10:28 The Yom Kippur War
0:12:42 Personal benefits of being in the military
0:14:06 Post-military experiences
0:17:13 Preparation and thought process in the Army
0:18:52 Personal time in Germany
0:20:58 Destruction of the Berlin Wall
0:22:17 Evolution of the military and public opinion of veterans
0:26:09 Issues with government
0:27:43 Homecoming
0:28:22 Family feelings on enlistment and war
0:29:07 Feelings on assignment
0:29:47 Relationships in the Army
0:31:39 Fun in the Army
0:33:00 Travel experiences and relationship with host family
0:34:43 Working with international students
0:35:12 Summary of international experience
0:35:32 Stand-out memories
0:37:13 Opinion of entering military today
0:41:16 Opinion of recent wars
0:43:37 Admiration for evolution of military and public opinion
Abstract
Oral history interview of Dr. William Blank. Interview conducted by Gabrielle Hanke.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/264/" target="_blank">Blank, Bill</a>. Interviewed by Gabrielle Hank. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">Vietnam War Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 45-minute and 8-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/264/" target="_blank">Blank, Bill</a>. Interviewed by Gabrielle Hanke. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Mannheim, Germany
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Kent State University, Kent, Ohio
Munich, Germany
Francis E. Warren Air Force Base, Cheyenne, Wyoming
Marine Corps Base Quantico, Triangle, Virginia
Vietnam
Watergate Office Complex, Washington, D.C.
Bad Tölz, Germany
Bastogne, Belgium
Kehlsteinhaus, Germany
Palace of Versailles, Versailles, France
Creator
Hanke, Gabrielle
Blank, William
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-21
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-21
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Medium
45-minute and 8-second oral history
21-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Gabrielle Hanke and William Blank and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html" target="_blank">American Experience</a>." Public Broadcasting Company. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html.
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Rottman, Gordon L., and Duncan Anderson. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/190967872" target="_blank"><em>The US Army in the Vietnam War 1965-73</em></a>. Oxford: Osprey, 2008.
Rabinovich, Abraham. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52464595" target="_blank"><em>The Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East</em></a>. New York: Schocken Books, 2004.
<span>Herzog, Chaim. </span><a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1500167" target="_blank"><em>The War of Atonement: October, 1973</em></a><span>. Boston: Little, Brown, 1975.</span>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Okay. Today is the 21<sup>st</sup> of November, 2014. My name is Gabrielle Hanke and I am here interviewing Dr. William "Bill" Blank. He served in the Army from 1971 until 1974. He ultimately reached the rank of Specialist 4 and was stationed in Mannheim, [Baden-Württemberg,] Germany. I am interviewing him as part of the University of Central Florida’s [Community] Veterans History Project and this interview is being conducted in Orlando, Florida. Alright, so let’s start off with your early years.</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Okay. Um, well as with most military vets, I would guess they would say a couple of words that might define their experience would be “conflict” and “adventure.” I think, you know, traditionally, that the military definitely offered both of those, and when I think of the conflict, I actually think of conflict here at home rather than abroad. Um, that was a—a pretty tumultuous time, um, in our society regarding world events, world affairs, and the military’s involvement in those events, um, specifically looking at the Vietnam War. And uh—it—it really began after I had already begun college.</p>
<p>I was a—a college student. I’d been going to school for several months and, uh, back in 1971. In the fall of 1971, they had the lottery, and it’s not like you think of the lottery today where you can win a million dollars, but rather, the lottery was determining who was going to be getting a draft notice. And, uh, my number happened to be 31. And up until about 100, those individuals could be expecting to get a draft notice. And so, uh, we—we had a—an opportunity—I guess I’m going to call it, uh—if you knew you that you were going to be getting a draft notice, you had several months typically to enlist as a—a prelude to getting that draft notice or—or in lieu of getting that draft notice. What were the advantages of that? One was that we—we had—we were actually kind of transitioning into what they called the “all-volunteer Army,” which began a year later. So this was really a year to sort of field test some of the constructs of that all-volunteer Army. And by enlisting prior to getting the draft notice, we were able to go in under something they called the “buddy system.”</p>
<p>And so my best friend from high school—who was coincidentally my college roommate—who also had a very low number for that lottery, we decided together to go ahead and enlist in the Army and that would give us the opportunity of going in under the buddy system. And what that really meant is that we were able to go through basic training together. And if you can imagine a couple of kids from a small industrial town, uh, in North Central Wisconsin, who had not previously ventured far from their backyard, were going to be going somewhere around the world, um, experiencing this major adventure. And so by at least starting off by having that kind of security blanket, that—that familiar face going through basic was really important and, um—and it actually meant a lot, I think, to many people, um, who had that opportunity.</p>
<p> So we went in, we volunteered, uh—enlisted. Uh, we—we went to basic training together. And then the second benefit of enlisting rather than actually getting the draft notice was we had the ability to have input in terms of what we would be doing in the military. And since I had taken electronics classes in high school, uh, they had determined to send me to a—a communications technician program—electronics training basically—which worked well for me.</p>
<p>And then the third benefit of enlisting was that—although it was not a guarantee—it—it really came down to the demand of the military at that time, but, um, you could at least give preferences for where you wanted to be stationed. um, and one of mine was to—to be able to go to Germany and, uh—actually, when we finished our training, I—I started off with orders for Vietnam, but because they were starting to pull back on the numbers of people they were sending to Vietnam, uh—they backed down on the Vietnam, uh, orders and transitioned them to Germany, and so I did get to go to Germany for three years. So I thought that was going to be a pretty positive experience for me.</p>
<p>And—and, um, to—to maybe give just a little bit more background, it was—it was a really difficult time actually, um, for young men primarily—although there were some women that were also going in—but men were the ones that were getting drafted, because of the societal views on the Vietnam War.</p>
<p>It was not a righteous war. Um, America had not been threatened. Our interests abroad had not been threatened. And so for many people in the country, um, there was resistance to the war and—and that was especially evident, um, on college campuses. Uh, having been a college student, you know, we all—we all had kind of a common perception of the war and, um, and that probably peaked in 1970, when at Kent State [University], the [Ohio] National Guard killed—I believe it was four or five students and then many others were injured as well, when the Ohio National Guard opened up on—on a group of protesters at that institution.</p>
<p>Um, and so, going into the military, going from student to—to soldier literally in a couple of short months created, I guess, a great deal of, um, cognitive dissonance, or at least it made me really question my values and philosophies about living and learning versus, um, you know, doing my duty and, um, you know, agreeing to uh, protect, and pr—um, protect society, uh, which—which was something that, um—in my family, you know—it was pretty conservative. That was kind of a—a passed down value, um, or—or philosophy, I guess, on life.</p>
<p>You do what you’re told to do by the authorities and—and you do it gladly. And uh, my grandfather had been in World War I and I—I remembered talking to him frequently and seeing all of his photographs. And so there was kind of that sense that, um, I need to pick up the torch in my family system and—and do my job for the military. So, two—two conflicting, um, life views really. Um—and—and I was not alone. That was pretty common I think for many young people at that time.</p>
<p>But nevertheless, I ended up going to Germany. And, um, one of my very first experiences in Germany, ironically, was being the point person, um, in a riot squad. When you think of a riot squad as a “V” and—and they ask for somebody, or they told somebody, “You’re going to be the point person.” And that was developed because of some of the international protests to the Vietnam War. Uh, [President Richard Milhous] Nixon had been doing quite a lot of carpet-bombing, where he would just saturate the country with explosives and—and so European students were protesting, as well. So I’m a student one day and a few months later, I’m actually wearing a uniform with an M-16, with a bayonet on it, and I’m the point person with students from Germany, um, attempting to infiltrate our base or—or surge our fences—and—and that put me in a really awkward position as well. Fortunately, um, nothing happened to the extent that we had to make contact with them, um, but—but nevertheless, it—it really made me question what I was doing and—and whether or not it was a valid, um, experience. Uh, so—so that was my introduction to Germany.</p>
<p>And then, um, just about a year later, I was actually going to teletype school, which was just outside of Munich[, Bavaria, Germany] in a small town called Bad Tölz [, Bavaria, Germany]. Teletype was sort of the prelude or the precursor to, um, e-mail. And, uh, just a—a few weeks into that training, uh, there was an attack at Olympic Village.<a title="">[1]</a> the—the 1972 Summer Olympics were going in Munich, by, um, a group of, um—uh, I guess for a lack of a better word, I would call them “terrorists”—the Black September [Organization] group—the—they were known as, attacked Israeli athletes and ended up—they kidnapped them initially in exchange for, um, over 200 prisoners that were in Israeli jails, uh—Arab prisoners. And, um, when Israel did not negotiate with them, they—they actually ended up killing all of the athletes, along with a German police officer. And, being in Munich at that time, all of the American soldiers were put on alert and, um, it was a pretty tense few days not knowing if that terror would—would, um, transition into some of the American facilities. Um, Mark Spitz was a—a—like a five—I think he won five golds that year for swimming. Uh, they—they rushed him out of Germany and—and flew him back to the United States being a—a Jewish athlete. So again, political, um, unrest and violence across the world, um, was starting to really boil. I think that was probably a, uh, maybe a—an omen of what was to come for America up the road, um, with the Middle East.</p>
<p>And—and we got through it and things seemed to settle down a bit and then, literally a year later, um, my armor unit, we had about 30 to 40 tanks in—in the unit that I was stationed with in Germany, um—80-ton tanks—60-ton tanks, I guess they were. And each year, we would go up to Northern Germany to qualify those tank crews on the firing ranges. And in 1973—in the fall of ‘73—we were up there doing just that, when, um, a number of Arab countries, um, attacked Israel, um, and—and that that was led, um, primarily by, um, let me see. I need to—to—to kind of just refresh my memory. The coalition of Arab states<a title="">[2]</a> was led by Syria. Egypt and Syria were the two countries that were really kind of spearheading that attack. Um, they were trying to win back, uh, land that was lost years earlier in the Three Day War. This was called the Yom Kippur Wer[sic]—Wer[sic]—War, because it was occurring during that holiday—that Jewish holiday<a title="">[3]</a>—um, and also the Arab<a title="">[4]</a> holiday of Ramadan. And so, um, it was kind of ironic that we’re celebrating these two religious holidays, and in the midst of them, they—they create another war.</p>
<p>At any rate, um, literally overnight, all of our tanks were, um, repainted in desert camouflage to—to make us ready to, um, be transported to the Middle East to intervene. Both Russia and the U.S., uh, really mustered their forces in terms of supplies and armament to their respective allies in the Middle East. And—and—and we came this close to, um, a world war with Russia at this point—the two superpowers colliding. Um, fortunately after three weeks, a—a ceasefire though occurred and, uh, that was, uh, the beginning of, um, a series of peace talks that helped to create a little bit more harmony in the Middle East.</p>
<p>Uh, so at any rate, I—I had a number of conflicts that were right on the edge of reality, in terms of drawing my unit into all of them. And so, probably not unlike with most soldiers, there’s always that, um, impeding war or that impending, um, “police action”—as Vietnam and Korea were called—uh, on the cusp of—of every morning.</p>
<p>Um, but—but in spite of all of that, I would say that I—I got a great deal out of the experience that I had in the military. I think when—when I look at, um, what that did for me, in terms of just the confidence and the self-responsibility, um, just the—the, um, I—I think ability to—to live my life more independently and autonomously. Um, the military was truly responsible for that. I think, in addition to that, there were relationships that were forged while in the military that were like no other relationships since, in terms of being very authentic and—and really, um, having that sense of cohesion that common bond or shared reality with other soldiers. Um, those relationships really truly turned out to be lifelong relationships.</p>
<p>And then, in addition to, um, being able to benefit from the GI Bill [Servicemen’s Readjustment Act of 1944], as a first generation college student, I was able to—to get my education—undergraduate and graduate education—um, at least partially funded by the military. um, gave me the opportunity to really get back to the, uh, goal of—of living and learning life, helping other people, uh, develop academically as a—an educational counselor and—and educational teacher. I think ultimately, all of that cumulatively allowed me to give back to the military in that, after getting my—my graduate degree in counseling, I was able to, um, develop a course for chronically unemployed Vietnam vet[eran]s, and—and, um, administer that six-week course throughout the state of Wisconsin, resulting in a national award with an over 80 percent placement rate at the end of that year for—for these, uh, participants.</p>
<p>And then, beyond that at other institutions, um, at Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne[, Wyoming], I—I taught ongoing workshops for military, who are retiring after 20 or 30 years, to help them more easily transition into civilian life and the civilian workforce. And then even here at—at UCF [University of Central Florida], I have the opportunity to work closely with veterans.</p>
<p>When we had the war with Iraq, and many of our UCF students were called out who were National Guard or Reservists, I actually created a—a long distance career counseling service for those veterans and extended it to all of their cohorts. um, and—and helped them to really, um, evaluate their life experiences in—in the face of being a warrior and how that was influencing changing career goals and helping them to adjust their academic programs, and then also to help assist them with the transition once they came back to college. Um, so, and—and then more recently, with the—the veterans academic resource grant that we got, I’m one of the committee members for that grant, and I’ve been able to really help infuse some professional development programing for veterans with job fairs and things of that nature.</p>
<p>So ultimately, you know, I—I can go back 40 years and I can see how the military really shaped me and—and how that military thread has consistently woven through my life, um, to, you know, my—my early 60s, where I am now, and—and how that’s been such a—a, I guess a pivotal experience in my life. It shaped me truly more than any other experience I’ve had thus far. So, that’s—that’s the summary of my story and, um, I stand by it.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Well, that was very good. Um, if we could go into some more details such as, uh, how were you trained during this time of there was conflict, but then there wasn’t almost. Like, it was a very iffy time. Could you tell me a little more about that?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Well, I—I think with—with anyone in the military at any time, you’re—you’re on constant alert and you’re involved in continuous training and we were always prepared for the worst. Um, we were ready to be mobilized as with, uh, the war, uh, in the Middle East. Literally in a few days, our entire, uh, battalion would be ready to transition over to the Middle East from Germany. Um, constant training. And I think, uh, there was also, um, quite a lot of educational programming, um, helping us to—I—I think, understand where we fit with all of the world events that were going on. Um, I don’t think we were discouraged from challenging ideas and beliefs, but I think because we were the military, there was always that, um, underlying focus on it’s our job to—to go in the event that we’re called out and do what we’ve been trained to do. It was our duty—our responsibility. So no matter where one might have been, um, in terms of their political ideologies, they were ready to do their job. And I am absolutely confident that—that we all would have done what we would have been asked to do as—as were soldiers in every war before ours.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke</strong>Okay. And then, um, I know there was, um, the issue of the Warsaw Pact<a title="">[5]</a> coming around. Um, what was it like uh—I mean like the air? The aura almost of being in Germany—being so close?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Well I—I did, because I was in Germany and—and because I so much enjoy and appreciate history, I did spend a—a great deal of my personal time while there learning about the history of, um, all of the events of World War II and how Europe had transformed as a result of the war.</p>
<p>And then with the Berlin Wall going up around, um, the time of my birth, uh, it was interesting to learn more about that and—and experience what it was like behind the Curtain—the Iron Curtain. And while I was there, I spent all of my—my vacation time, uh, travelling throughout Europe, um, going actually to Southern Europe to, um, the—the Third Reich headquarters, um, and Bavaria[, Germany], and seeing some of the—the facilities—the Eagle’s Nest<a title="">[6]</a> that [Martin] Bormann had built for [Adolf] Hitler.</p>
<p>And, um, and then also going to some of the countries that had been, um, uh, freed as a result of American intervention in the war. Um, France, and going up to Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, seeing where the Battle of the Bulge occurred in Bastogne[, Belgium]. Um, and talking to people up there and actually living with a German family for the three years. I was there and hearing their stories. They were terrified of the Nazis,<a title="">[7]</a> I think, as any European may have been at that time. Um, it—it was really interesting to get that personal perspective from people and—and talk to people who had actually been there during those wars—during that war—and, uh, hearing their, um, personal life histories.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Yeah. That’s very interesting. And then, um, let’s see. How did you feel—I know you weren’t there at the time—but when the Berlin Wall finally came down?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Um, it—it was amazing to me. and—and I—I guess what—what I guess the personal connection for me—it went up the year I was born and it was torn down the year my sons were born.<a title="">[8]</a> And—and so I look at, within that lifetime, what a dramatic change. And that was certainly an indication of, uh, what was to come with some of the, um, eastern countries, and now the Middle Eastern countries as well, um, as far as that goes—in terms of democracy and in terms of people having freedom of choice.</p>
<p>So when I thought about that, it helped to legitimize my involvement during the Vietnam period, again which was pretty tumultuous, um, politically- and society-wise, um, especially as a—an 18 year old not very knowledgeable about much in life at that point. Um, every experience I had, uh, was sort of a first time exposure for me. I didn’t have the—I guess the cognitive ability to—to maybe put it all in perspective early on, it really evolved over time.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>And then, um—how do you feel? Has the military changed in its attitudes? As you were saying, um, your generation—you did your duty. Do you feel that that has carried over to this generation?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /> </strong>It—it—it has, um, to my amazement and to my pleasure. I have seen amazing, amazing, changes. Colonel [Richard] Toliver talked about that even from, uh, pre-Vietnam era and World War II era—how things have changed. And I think for veterans, in particular—during the Vietnam era, we were either openly discriminated against, um, chastised, or we were politely tolerated at best, but we were never, never celebrated. I can honestly say that in 40 years, not one person ever even acknowledged my time in the service, much less thank me for it, until a couple years ago, um, here at UCF when—when the veterans’ memorial was—was opened up, about two years ago, I guess it was.</p>
<p>And now, it’s totally amazing, is that anytime people realize that—that I had been a veteran, if I have my—my flag on or if I go to a—a veteran program here, um, they all say “Bill, thank you for your service.” I came into work on Veterans’ Day and—and there was a—a card taped to my door and all my staff had signed it, uh, thanking me for my service. And that’s like something I never ever would have expected to happen. I mean, you can’t imagine, unless you lived through it, um, you know, returning war veterans being spit upon and—and criticized and—and yelled at—to—to being thanked. I mean, that is a true, positive transition. I think it speaks volumes about how the American military is viewed in this country, at least today. Um, I had an opportunity to go to the, um, the Marine officer training school in [Marine Corps Base] Quantico[, Triangle, Virginia], and, uh, it was amazing how—how they were so excited about the opportunity to—to put themselves in harm’s way to protect their country. Um, a real different attitude, not just by society, but by soldiers as well.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Do you have an opinion on what caused this?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Well, you know the concept of nationalism. During World War II, there was this wave of nationalism. We were attacked and we were going to defend our country. We were going to do what we needed to—to protect our families and our way of life. And, um, now again, with the attack on the World Trade Centers[sic] and—and the terrorist attacks coming from the Middle East, we have been threatened. And, um, our—our interests abroad have been threatened. Um, our—our homeland has been threatened and, indeed, attacked. And so, that’s what it requires, I think, for that wave of nationalism to occur.</p>
<p>During Vietnam, again as—as I said earlier, none of that was threatened, and there were so many questions about why are we there, what we were doing. Um, are we causing more harm than good? And so, when—when the war’s not a righteous war, you’re not going to get that support. When the war is righteous, that support with be there. Hopefully, um, our s—our government, our politicians, you know, learn something from that and they—they won’t be too eager to go to war un—unless there’s just cause.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Yeah, and, um, speaking of politicians, I know it was around the Vietnam War where things were really—people were starting to question it and especially with Watergate [Scandal] —what do you remember of that?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Yeah. Watergate actually happened when I was still in Germany, but I remember coming back and, um, you know—how that—that was the—I guess you could call it the—the straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak for Nixon. Um, as early as the—the late 60s, he was—Nixon was—was being viewed as the person who was escalating the Vietnam War. Um, I think already there was a—a tide of resistance about him and then Watergate pretty much cinched it for him.</p>
<p>Um, but it—it—it didn’t help to sort of regain confidence in government. I think it helped to further, um, support the concept that the government doesn’t always make good decisions and—and they’re not always, um, principled and ethical people who are running government. And so I think for—for Vietnam era veterans, you know, it—it sort of justified the views that they may have held about government. And—and we were separating military from government. A lot of people in the military didn’t necessarily support what heads of government—heads of state were—were doing and—and the kinds of decisions that they were making.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>And then, um, what was your homecoming like? Did people distinguish between you were in Vietnam or you were in Germany? Or did they…</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>No. If you had a uniform on, you weren’t seen in in a positive light. And so veterans quickly learned to not present themselves as returning veterans. Um, as soon as we got back, um, I can vividly recall my duffel bag with all my uniforms and gear went into a Goodwill bin. Um, the first thing I did was grow my hair out so I wouldn’t look like a veteran. Um, I didn’t want to be, um, targeted and—and truly they—they were. We were.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>And, um, how did your family feel about you going into the military at this time and…</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>They didn’t really want me to, quite honestly. But again with—with the draft, there wasn’t really an option. I—I think they were probably ambivalent about the war as well. and when literally every single night for a—at least a full hour on the national news, we were seeing clips of Vietnam with—with people’s sons and husbands and fathers being killed left and right and in large numbers. Um, there—there wasn’t a lot of support from family members for their sons to go into that situation.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>So, now you said you were initially, um, listed as going to Vietnam, correct? How did…</p>
<p><strong>Blank</strong>Right. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>How did you feel about that?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>I—I was concerned about it, but, you know, if—if that’s where they needed me to be, uh—just like every other individual who went through basic training or advanced individual training, you went where they told you to go. The military was very effective at, um, kind of creating that—that cohesion and that common bond where you go and support your fellow veteran—your fellow, um, soldiers, rather.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>And then, um, you said uh, it was thr—through the military you made these very unique relationships. Do you still keep in contact with people?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Um, not—not so much anymore at this point in in my life, um, but for the first decade or so after getting out, um, there—there was ongoing contact. Unfortunately, um, probably of the—the two or three people that I really bonded tightly with in my unit, uh, one of them was killed, um, in Germany, um, through—through an accident. And, uh, the other one relocated back to Pennsylvania, which was on the other side of the country as me. I was, um, in Wisconsin and then ultimately Colorado. So we—we sort of lost touch as well.</p>
<p>But, um, one of my coworkers picked up grandparents the other day from the airport, and took them to Lakeland, where her grandfather was reconnecting with a—a military cohort from his time during World War II. And she was sharing with me how rewarding it was when she saw them, um, connect, um, for the first time. and—and they embraced each other and literally, uh, began crying because, I—I think when—when you see those people after so many years, it’s that whole flood of emotions that that come to the surface. Colonel [Richard] Toliver talked about that when he wrote his book,<a title="">[9]</a> um—how it’s a bit difficult, because so many of the emotions from wartime resurface. But—but I think they can be positive emotions too. It’s not just all negative memory. It’s—it’s the relationships that were so crucial, I think, to that lifelong, I guess, association with the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>And, um, I know it was a very serious time, but what did you guys do for fun?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Well, that’s the, uh, the other side I talked about, you know, for everybody going in the military. It’s conflict and adventure. And—and it’s kind of a strange combination, because sometimes they may be one and the same. But, um, being in an armored unit, um, as an 18 year old kid and we have these 60-ton tanks, uh, it was pretty amazing to be able to play with them. We—we had some areas where we would practice, um, driving them. And—and Americans would discard cars in that area that they couldn’t take back to the States, because they didn’t have seatbelts, safety glass, all of that. So imagine a Volkswagen with—with 60-ton tanks driving over it, one after another. Um, those—that was the kind of activity that made it pretty exciting.</p>
<p>But then beyond what we did in the military, um, uh, you know, beyond when—when we’d go on maneuvers, I would be driving our operations major, scouting a place to camp out with—with you know 30 tanks and all the crews and support peoples. So I had a four-wheel drive Jeep and we’d—we would be going through the hillsides and having quite an adventure of it.</p>
<p>But, in addition to all of that, when I wasn’t working, um, I traveled a lot. I got my international driver’s license as soon as I could, bought a car, and every single weekend I was gone. I was visiting all parts of Western Europe. In a weekend, you could go just about anywhere, because Europe is such a small landmass. Took all my vacations over there. Um, my parents came over, um, for a couple weeks to—to visit, and we traveled all over Western Europe to—to help them experience it, as well.</p>
<p>Um, and then the German family I lived with, they—they sort of adopted me as a—a[sic] international, um, son—I guess for lack of a better term. And they—they took me everywhere with them when they would go off on weekends. They helped me to really experience the culture and the diversity of Germany and really learn to appreciate what Germany is today. And I think as a result of that, um, you know, knowing what it felt like to be a stranger in a foreign land and then to have people befriend me and kind of help me. Whether it was, you know, teaching me how to, um—say “vergaser,” which is German for carburetor, which I needed to know when I went to the auto-mechanic to tell him I needed a—a “neu vergaser.” Um, to—to, you know, teaching me how they celebrated, um, the holidays and—and what Christmas meant to them, taking me to church with them on Christmas Eve. Uh, all of that was really eye opening.</p>
<p>As a result of that, I became an international student mentor here, um, for our international students, where each year I take one on and, um, have that mentor-mentee relationship to help them adapt and adjust to the United States and to UCF, and just guide them through the everyday issues that—that one faces when—when one is in a foreign land.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>That’s very good.</p>
<p><strong>Blank <br /></strong>So a lot of adventure, um, and—and again, I think it’s that combination of coming into adulthood and experiencing, um, all of those new challenges and—and adventures that, um, people in the military never ever, ever forget.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Is there, uh, any specific moments that stand out to you? That you can still see?</p>
<p><strong>Blank <br /></strong>Um, well, one time, when—when we were on a maneuver—in terms of a memorable experience—the German forests are pretty dense and—and pretty rugged still. They have wild boars which—which have large, razor-like teeth, and—and—and, um, horns, and they can be literally deadly, if you’re caught out in the open with them—if they do attack you. And I recall one night—this may seem a bit bizarre—but having to relieve myself, I left the safety of the 60-ton tank and walked out into the woods, and I heard something snorting. And it didn’t take me but about two and a half seconds to get back on top of that tank. And sure enough, a herd of razorback came running by me, and, um, I felt fortunate I wasn’t out there.</p>
<p>Um, and—and then—and then maybe, um, another time I—I guess I remember well—was actually a trip to Paris[, France] to do some sight-seeing. And—and I was able to really experience Paris and [the Palace of] Versailles and all the history, and—and I didn’t fully appreciate what I was witness to until I got back to the States and began college. And I was in a world history class where the professor was talking about the French Revolution, and, um, Queen [Marie] Antoinette, and—and the guil—guillotines, and Versailles and—and all the other students had kind of a blank look on their face. And I’m thinking <em>Oh, yeah, I—I know that, I was actually there.</em> When he talked about the Hall of Mirrors in the Palace of Versailles, I was there.</p>
<p>Um, when they got into the World War II history and—and talked about some of the early meetings between, um, the different diplomats at, uh, the Eagle’s Nest, or Hitler’s tea house, I was there. Um, everything that was being discussed, I had actually been there in person and had experienced personally. Um, and so, it, I think it made me fully, at that point, understand what a treasure that was for me to have had that opportunity for travel and just seeing parts of the world unknown that I never would have been able to experience had I not been in the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>So, what would you say to someone who is considering enlisting in the military today?</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>It—it’s a—it’s a dangerous time to go in the military right now, uh, but I would never discourage it. Um, I actually teach a course—a graduate career counseling course—for, uh, graduate students who are preparing to go into school counseling. And every semester, I bring in, uh, representatives from the military to teach them about opportunities in the military, so that they at least are aware of them when they work with their high school students up the road. And—and I share with them, you know—it’s a personal decision for individuals, but we need to be letting young people know this is an opportunity.</p>
<p>Um, war—war can certainly be dangerous, but there are so many benefits in the military and—and especially in terms of helping to, um, complete one’s education. The military is so supportive of that financially and otherwise. Um, and so, I wouldn’t discourage anyone. um, it—it’s awkward though, because I—I know there’s a good chance today that people could absolutely be, um, in a combat situation and, um, knowing what can happen in combat it—it creates a bit of dissonance with me. But I—I regret that young people today don’t have the same opportunity I did. They—they—young men, in particular—we—we needed that kind of safe haven to—to mature and develop.</p>
<p> At 18, most young men are not ready for college and they’re not ready for life. And so to have that three year period where they—they have the protection of the military. Someone to feed and clothe and house you, but yet challenge you to mature and become responsible. I—I regret that young men don’t have that today. I regret that my own sons, who are 25, have never had that experience.</p>
<p>Ironically, I’ve got a 29 year old, young man who works for me now—a new staff member—and, um, he’s never ironed his shirt. And in the military, we learn to press and starch all of our uniforms to great precision. And, um, this is probably my experience of the year—for me this year. He brought his ironing board, his iron, and a can of starch along with a shirt and a pair of pants and he asked me to teach him how to iron based on my knowledge of how to do that from the military. We—we took pride in our appearance and we were called on it if we weren’t attentive to it. And I—I try to encourage young men today to do the same. One—one of many, many, um, benefits or—or attributes to being in the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke </strong>Yeah. Um, uh, speaking of the recent conflicts in the Middle East, you said the conflicts that you experienced personally—you feel they were ominous almost?</p>
<p><strong>Blank </strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke </strong>So, um, how did you feel about first [Operation] Desert Storm<a title="">[10]</a> and then the recent [Iraq] War?<a title="">[11]</a></p>
<p><strong>Blank </strong>Supportive of it, because their sovereign country had been attacked—Kuwait had been attacked. And—and, uh, I—I—I think, as—as, I believe, every past veteran would have seen, that was a—a just action.</p>
<p>And, um, I think the difference though there versus in Vietnam, um—they put the full military behind it. In Vietnam, uh, there—there were so many restrictions about how that war was approached. And—and as a result of that, it went on. It actually started in in 1954 with [President Dwight David] Eisenhower, when—when he showed political and financial support for South Vietnam.<a title="">[12]</a> Um, but then, as it continued, uh, into the 60s—with the advisors and over war, and then escalated numbers of U.S. soldiers going there, um, it was never looked at as, “Here’s a war. Let’s put the full force of the military behind it.” But it was rather a trickle of U.S. soldiers going, um, for an extended period of time, not getting the kind of support that that they needed to—to do it right. And—and I was proud—proud of—of the military for the way they handled the first Iraq War.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>Now with, um, these most recent wars, they’ve been going on for quite a while.</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Yeah, the—the face of war has really changed. Starting with Vietnam, you didn’t know who your enemy was and—and same today with terrorism. But, because terrorism directly threatens the United States and all of us who live here, um, it has to be addressed. You know, I—I don’t see other options than to continue to be involved in in what we’re doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke <br /></strong>And then, um—I think you’ve answered almost everything. Um, so, is there anything else you’d like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Blank <br /></strong>Um, I—I think just my—my delight at how things have changed with the military. Um, when we—we saw, um—we hosted the film <em>Red Tails</em> in our office. The Tuskegee Airmen, and—and it was during [National] Veterans [Awareness] Week. Um, it was really amazing to see the pioneers for, um, bringing equality into the military, which, in my era, then continued with women coming into the military.</p>
<p>And then I think the second major thing that I’m really pleased to see is that not only has the military, um, really come to a point where they honor diversity and recruit for diversity, but I think they—they also now are being valued more. All—all veterans of every war are being so much more highly valued than was ever the case, from my perspective. And that brings me great joy to—to just know, even after having waited four decades to—to see that, finally, you know, people are supportive. The—the general public is supportive of what the military is doing and—and honoring those past veterans as well.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke<br /></strong>We’re good? Time is good? Okay. Alright. Well, that concludes the interview, and I would like to personally thank you for both your time and your service.</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hanke <br /></strong>Thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Blank<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Munich Massacre.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> The coalition also included Iraq, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia, as well as Cuba.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Yom Kippur.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Muslim holiday.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Treaty of Friendship, Co-operation, and Mutual Assistance.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Kehlsteinhaus.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[8]</a> 1961.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[9]</a> <em>An Uncaged Eagle: True Freedom</em>.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[10]</a> There is only one Operation Desert Storm.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[11]</a> Operation Iraqi Freedom.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[12]</a> Republic of Vietnam.</p>
</div>
</div>
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/264/" target="_blank">Blank, Bill</a>
Date Issued
2015-01
Extent
387 MB
203 KB
1972 Summer Olympics
9/11 Attacks
Adolf Hitler
all-volunteer military
An Uncaged Eagle: True Freedom
anti-war protest
anti-war protests
Arab-Israeli War of 1973
Bad Tölz, Germany
basic training
Bastogne, Belgium
Battle of the Bulge
Bavaria, Germany
Berlin Wall
Bill Blank
Black September Organization
BSO
buddy system
carpet bombing
carpet bombs
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Christmas
civilian
civilians
cognitive dissonance
cold war
college
colleges
conscription
Desert Shield
Desert Storm
diversity
draft lotteries
draft lottery
draft notices
drafting
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Dwight David Eisenhower
Eagle's Nest
educator
educators
Egypt
enlistment
Europe
Francis E. Warren AFB
Francis E. Warren Air Force Base
French Revolution
Gabrielle Hanke
Games of the XX Olympiad
gender segregation
Germans
Germany
GI Bill
Global War on Terror
guidance counseling
GWOT
Hall of Mirrors
Halloween Massacre
homecoming
Ike Eisenhower
international students
Iraq
Iraq War
Iron Curtain
Israel
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Kehlsteinhaus
Kent State Massacre
Kent State Shooting
Kent State University
KSU
Kuwait
Mannheim, Germany
Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna von Habsburg-Lothringen
Marie Antoinette
Marine Corps Base Quantico
Mark Spitz
Martin Bormann
May 4 Massacre
MCB Quantico
mentors
Middle East
military
military assignments
military drafts
military training
Munich Massacre
Munich, Germany
National Guard
National Socialist German Workers' Party
National Veterans Awareness Week
nationalism
Nazi Germany
Nazi Party
Nazis
Nixon, Richard, Milhous
North Central Wisconsin
NSDAP
October War
Ohio National Guard
Olympic Village
Olympics
Operation Desert Shield
Operation Desert Storm
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Operation Wrath of God
Palestine
Persian Gulf War
police actions
protesters
Ramadan
Ramadan War
razorbacks
Red Tails
Republic of Vietnam
Richard Milhous Nixon
Richard Nixon
Richard Toliver
riot squads
riots
Russia
segregation
September 11 Attacks
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
South Vietnam
student protests
Summer Olympics
Syria
tanks
teachers
terrorism
terrorists
Third Reich
Three Day War
Treaty of Friendship, co-operation, and Mutual Assistance
Tuskegee Airmen
U.S. Army
UCF
universities
university
University of Central Florida
veterans
Veterans' Day
Vietnam
Vietnam War
volunteer military
volunteers
war protests
WarPac
Warren AFB
Warren Air Force Base
Warsaw Pact
Watergate
Watergate Scandal
wild boars
William Blank
Wisconsin
woman
women
World Trade Center
World War II
WWII
Yom Kippur
Yom Kippur War
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9a286a6f755d844f675354e955e5642a.pdf
61f2719e5cadc99a144778de63ba9150
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection
Alternative Title
Creative Sanford Collection
Subject
Seminole County (Fla.)
Folk plays
Sanford (Fla.)
Description
<span>Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage <em>Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play</em> community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was </span><em>Touch and Go</em><span>, a play focusing on the people of Sanford and their determination to overcome various obstacles, including the Freeze of 1894-1895, the fall of Sanford's celery industry, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. In the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which is located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street.</span>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida
Princess Theater, Downtown Sanford, Florida
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about.
<span>"<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/.</span>
"<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Thompson, Trish
Román-Toro, Freddie
Interviewee
Black, Patricia Ann
Hardy, Billy
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Patricia Ann Black and Billy Hardy
Alternative Title
Oral History, Black and Hardy
Subject
Sanford, (Fla.)
Education--Florida
Race relations--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history of both Patricia Ann Black (b. 1956) and Billy Hardy (b. 1956). Hardy was born on August 17, 1956, and Black was born 14 days later on August 31. Both grew up at the end of Tenth Street in Sanford, Florida. This oral history interview was conducted by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro.<br /><br />Hardy and Black attended Hopper Elementary School through sixth grade, Lakeview Middle School for seventh grade, Sanford Junior High School for eighth grade, Crooms High School for ninth grade, and Seminole High School through twelfth grade. They talk about what life was like in Sanford during segregation and what happened to make integration possible. Black talks about what her education in New York was like when compared to that in Sanford. Hardy discusses how football helped ameliorate tensions among blacks and whites. He also shares his experiences in the Army. Black and Hardy also discuss their childhood romance and how circumstances changed their relationship. Hardy also speaks about his time in technical school and his passion for cars. Other topics include the differences between attending school in New York and Florida, the Trayvon Martin case, and the sexual abuse of Black as a child.
Type
Text
Source
Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida.
Requires
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida.
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Is Format Of
Digital 22-page transcript of original oral history: Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida.
Coverage
Hopper Academy, Sanford, Florida
Lakeview Middle School, Winter Garden, Florida
Sanford Junior High School, Sanford, Florida
Crooms High School, Sanford, Florida
Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida
Creator
Thompson, Trish
Román-Toro, Freddie
Black, Patricia Ann
Hardy, Billy
Date Created
2013-03
Format
application/pdf
Extent
198 KB
Medium
22-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Trish Thompson, Freddie Román-Toro, Patricia Ann Black, and Billy Hardy.
Rights Holder
Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only.
Accrual Method
Donation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>
Curator
Román-Toro, Freddie
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>
External Reference
Gilmore, Henry Francis. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/78907105" target="_blank"><em>A Study of Attitudes of Negro Teachers Toward the Supreme Court Decision and Other Issues of Desegregation in Education</em></a>. Thesis (Ed.D.)--Teachers College, Columbia University, 1957.
Humphrey, Hubert H. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/189150" target="_blank"><em>Integration vs. Segregation</em></a>. New York: Crowell, 1964.
Jenkins, Sallie S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52692084" target="_blank"><em>A Historical Investigation of School Desegregation in Seminole County School District</em></a>. Thesis (EdD.)--University of Central Florida, 2002, 2002.
Kharif, Wali Rashash. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/10501914" target="_blank"><em>The Refinement of Racial Segregation in Florida After the Civil War</em></a>. Thesis (Ph. D.)--Florida State University, 1983, 1983.
Yancy, George, and Janine Jones. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/810119075" target="_blank"><em>Pursuing Trayvon Martin: Historical Contexts and Contemporary Manifestations of Racial Dynamics</em></a>. Lanham: Lexington Boos, 2013.
Transcript
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>How did y’all meet? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We grew up at the end of Tenth Street. Our house was the last house on the street. And it just so happened that my birthday was August 17<sup>th</sup>, 1956 and yours was…</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Mine was August 31<sup>st</sup>, 1956. And we’re like 14 days apart and our mothers carried us at the same time. And we’re at the dead end of East Tenth Street. so I’m at the corner and he’s at the end. It was just us two kids. There were others in the neighborhood, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Not as close as we were.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you went all through school together?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Pretty much.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>What school?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>In elementary school, it was Hopper [Academy]—between Eleventh [Street] and Celery Avenue—and afterwards, it was Lakeview [Middle School] for seventh grade, I think.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yeah. We were 12 at Lakeview and we went to Sanford Junior High [School] at 13.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And where was Sanford Junior then?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>That’s Sanford Middle School now. It’s the same one.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh. It’s on [U.S. Route] 17-92.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yes. The next year we went to Crooms [High School], which became our ninth grade. Then we went to Seminole [High School].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you were there for the integration of—or you were one year after?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. We were in the midst of it.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were in fourth grade when that began to happen, so we kind of had a choice for our fifth grade. Our parents could decide if they wanted to send us to the other school, because they didn’t close Hopper or anything like that.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It just made an opportunity to go to other schools, if they wanted to, but we stayed. It was right around the corner [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We lived one block away. It was on the corner of Eleventh and Bay [Avenue] and we lived on Tenth and Bay so—my parents left the choice up to me, because all my life I’ve always gone to integrated schools. I began school in New York state and…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, so you left?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I would leave every year. My father was a migrant crew leader, but they lived here. They stayed here. My parents’ work was as a migrant to carry people up north to pick apples—to harvest the fruit.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And so you went to school up there every year? So you were just home in summertime?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And I spent all my summers in New York. I began school in New York and I would end it here every school year. From September to November, up to the week before Thanksgiving, I would go to school in New York. Then we’d come down here and I’d finish school. And it used to be June 6<sup>th</sup> that would be the last day of school, and then as we got older it would be June 11<sup>th</sup>. The next day, my mom and I would get on a Greyhound bus and go to Rochester[, New York] to visit with my sisters, and my father would come up around July 5<sup>th</sup>—out to the migrant camp that we lived on.</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>Could you elaborate on the differences between going to school up North and coming to school here?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Yes. I sure can. For me, it was more of a freedom. When I’m in New York, I could be myself. I could be all that I thought I could be. I went to school with whites. I started out with whites, so in school, there was no limit to what we were taught we could be—even the black students.</p>
<p>However, down here I had to go to an all-black school, which wasn’t a problem, as far as it being black. I knew I fit in there. However, at a very early age, I learned the difference. It was kind of sad for me, especially by sixth grade, I had a grip on what was going on. I didn’t like when I got to Florida, I had to feel “less than.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>When you were in Florida, did you feel like the teachers didn’t tell you you could be all that you could be? Did the teachers treat you different in the North and South?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No, but there is a difference and I saw the difference. The teachers here did all they could, but you still left school thinking that you could go no higher than a teacher. We weren’t taught about, “You could be a doctor one day.” This is what I remember.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Billy, how about you?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Just like she was saying earlier. we were in that situation and, as far as going to school, that’s what we did. We knew we had to go. we knew we had to have an education, so we went. The thing about Sanford during that time was that we lived over here and they lived over there. In other words, the black part of town was over here, and the white part was over here, and our parents taught us, “You don’t go over there.”</p>
<p>There were many parts of time that—I’ll tell you what, as I came home from service, after 23 years of service, there were parts of town that I had never seen. When I came home, I was right down Melonville [Avenue] and I said, “I’m going over here,” and I did. I rode on through the neighborhoods and I was like…</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>How’d you feel about that? How’d you feel about having that opportunity to go wherever you wanted?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>After being in the service, basically, I was going everywhere I wanted anyway, so when I came home it didn’t matter anymore. [<em>laughs</em>] The door was swung wide open. When I joined the Army, the door was open so wide, it wasn’t black or white anymore. It was green. We were fighting for one purpose and one cause and that was it. Sometimes prejudice situations came up, but it wasn’t a big thing. It was pretty much—it happened. It was controlled. It was dealt with, and that was the end of it. Growing up as a child, I had to stay where my parents told me to stay.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did it make you feel fearful—them telling you that you can’t go there?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It bothered me. It really bothered me, because Sundays—you know, Sunday afternoon—after a Sunday meal, everybody’s been to church. We would go out to the schoolhouse and play football. It was all the guys in the neighborhood and we would have a blast. Gosh, we would just play football all day.</p>
<p>What happened was, some of the guys from the other side of town—the white guys—came and saw us playing football at the schoolhouse—and this is kind of what got the ball running as far as the integration part. We played ball. They played ball. We played ball over here, but they played ball over there, so when they came over and a group of them decided, “Let’s go ask. Let’s go talk,” and we began to talk and things began to change. I think there was more to it than that, but that was one of the changes I saw.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you and your peers—black and white—you made the decision to integrate before your parents?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Our parents didn’t decide for us to integrate. It was the white man. It wasn’t our parents. I believe that all of our black parents would rather have kept us where we were. They feared. They wouldn’t have sent us out to white schools, but as time went on, white people had to make a change, so that’s where it came about. We didn’t care that it was integrated. We were fine just where we were. I chose not to go. They gave us a choice. It was a very easy decision for me. I had been looking at white people all my life, and honestly, I was afraid of the white people down here, because here there was always that segregation, but in New York—so I knew there was a difference.</p>
<p>The white people in the South – he probably could name some white kids that we went to school with. I can’t. There were no relationships with any of the white kids that we went to school with. It’s like…</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>So you were segregated, even when you weren’t segregated is what you’re saying? When segregation started informally, and then later formally, did you trust it? Did you trust that it was for sincere reasons? or did you suspect that there was an agenda behind it?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, I suspected that there was an agenda behind it—that they were being forced to make it happen. They didn’t want us. They didn’t think it was the right time to do this. There was a force behind it.</p>
<p>When I—in fifth grade, in New York state—well, I had heard it while in fourth grade down here—but in fifth grade in New York state, when it was time to move back down here in November, I remember that all the kids thought that I was so smart in school down here. The books that they were learning through, I had already studied and completed in New York.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So you were getting second-hand books in Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And in fifth grade, the books were coming from the North. Yes, because when I got here and went to school and for Thanksgiving, the guy next to me, Willie Jones—when he opened his geography book—in the front they have whose name is in it and then they have the school stamp up in the corner. And there it was: “NRW,” which was North Rose-Wolcott [High] School—that I went to. I was just floored, and I went home very upset with my father, because I had asked him, “How do these books get from New York to Florida?” He told me he didn’t know, but in fifth grade I had my own evidence. I saw the book and I just—it was just never a good feeling for me.</p>
<p>That’s where my—I am a big advocate for diversity and I have been ever since then—and with Martin Luther King[, Jr.] and John F. Kennedy—for me, in my life, even with what I was going through, I was going to be what Martin Luther King was talking about—black and white kids holding hands and walking to school together. I was going to show white people that that could be done, because I knew there was a difference between the whites in the South and the whites in the North and you’re all white, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>I want to go back just for a minute. When you said your parents wouldn’t let you go there, did your parents explain why they didn’t want you going in those neighborhoods?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Well, basically they didn’t want us going over there because it was trouble. Some of the experiences—I mean, I got dogs sicced on me. I got to the point where I just got fed up by a lot of stuff and it was—I walked to the store one day, and this guy sicced his dog on me. He had one big one and one little one, and they didn’t bite me, because I guess I was a pretty good size as a kid. I would jump at one, he’d run and the other one would try to get me and I’d jump at him, you know? I tell you what, the hatred that built up in me during that time—I was going to kill the dogs, but they died. I had something on the inside that really bothered me for a long time. and when we left Hopper and went to Lakeview it was like a big melting pot.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>What year would that have been?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were 12. That would have been [19]68. We were 12 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Because the integration of Crooms didn’t happen ‘til 1970.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We were 14 at the time. Crooms was in ninth grade. Lakeview was built for the seventh grade—for all of us. Everybody was going to have to go to Lakeview.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We fought every day. every day. They shut the school down once, because we fought so much. I mean, it was lunch time, and here come the buses, and it was a mess. I could honestly say that the class of ’74, from Lakeview all the way up to high school, we fought.</p>
<p>Just to take it even a step further, I played football. My thing was football. I was big in sports, and it got to the point where I just decided, “What are we fighting for? I’m tired of fighting.” Did you see the movie <em>Remember the Titans</em>? We finally came together Homecoming. It took Homecoming in the 11<sup>th</sup> grade for us to come together—actually, in the 12<sup>th</sup> grade. It took Homecoming for us to come together. We were down 7-6, and we got in that huddle, and we looked at each other and decided, “That’s it. We’re going to do this.” That was the first time we joined hands and said, “That’s it. No more.” We were on defense, and I was on defense, because I played both ways. when the game started, I was on the field from then to the time the game was over. Gosh, their quarterback dropped back for a pass and we rushed him hard. And he dropped back and he threw it and one of the quarterbacks—I’ll never forget it, Jimmy Clemens, a white guy, intercepted it. We formed a wall and we wiped out everybody and Jimmy ran in for the touchdown and we won the game.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>But didn’t you all go to the state [championship] that year?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. We didn’t. We didn’t go to state. I’ll tell you what—it took that to bring us together. We really had a time. We really did.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>It wasn’t every black or white person, but it was certain ones that they had been…</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It was certain ones. I’ll give you a good example. I have a good friend named Pat Howard, okay? Pat were[sic] practicing one day, and I was on offense at the time. Pat intercepted the ball, and I hit him pretty hard. We were in the shower and I wasn’t expecting Pat to come up to me. He said, “You tried to kill me out there.” I said, “Coach is wearing us out out there. Nah. I didn’t try to kill you.” I said, “You all right?” He said, “Yeah.” We shook it off. The next day we got ready to line up and the coach blew the whistle. He said, “Hardy? You’re over there on defense next to Howard.” Now we’re on the same side. Now it’s getting good. “Don’t come this way,” I said. “I don’t care who you are—black or white. Don’t come this way.” Pat catches on real quick and he stood back to back with me and said, “Don’t come this way.” Now we’re having fun. Now it’s getting real interesting. We’re great friends right now. As a matter of fact, his mother has a barber shop across the street—a hair salon. Betty Ann?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I don’t know her, but everybody says what a wonderful person she is</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>That’s his mom, so when we get together we hug, fish, and talk. Needless to say, when the wall was torn down—while we were in the pot fighting—there were some friends made in the pot. The wall came down. Doing sports—the wall came down. We realized fighting wasn’t going to do us any good. “You’re here and I’m here. We’ve got to go to the same school. We’re from the same town. Hey, we might as well get along.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Your thought process is that that brought about the change, because you said, “I’m not fighting.” Then you said that to them, and they said that they didn’t want to fight either. You were really a catalyst for the change in your school.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Somebody had to do something.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, I’m glad to meet you, because that was a wonderful thing that you did.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>All that fighting and carrying on—it gets to the point where you’re like, “Come on. We just did this yesterday.” There was a big change. When we graduated. Tears flew. “I might never see this guy anymore.” I knew these guys, so when reunion time comes around, that’s great. We go get a ride, Pat gets drunk, and I have to take him home[<em>laughs</em>]. All of a sudden he’s hugging you and wants to tell you how much he loves you. The true feelings come out then. When I see him in his momma’s shop, it’s like, “Hey! You didn’t call me!” They look at us like we’re going to tear the place apart.</p>
<p>It had to come to that. The wall inside of me fell. and it didn’t just fall, it crumbled. After I joined the service, it really crumbled, because now those I thought were my enemies were now my friends. Now we’re fighting for the same cause. I’m training them and they’re training me. I’ve been to the battlefield.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Which one?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>[Operation] Desert Storm. I rescued so many I can’t even count the number. I was a combat medic and I’d pull them out of holes and hills, and rescued them out of the battlefields. It has been a great life and it ain’t over yet. The best is yet to come.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So when you got out of the service, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I opened up an automotive repair shop in Columbus, Georgia. That’s where I live now. That’s where I’ve been ever since. I work on everybody’s car [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Now, when you were in school, did any of the girls fight?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, he saw more fights than I did. I think that since I went to school in New York, when I got here, I didn’t have to put up a wall, because I understood already, because I understood what was going on. However, as an African-American, I knew where I stood and how far I could go. Which brings me back to the fifth grade and having to—it was an awful feeling to have to feel “less than.” I spent six months knowing that I was more than that. Then you get to a place where you can’t go here and you can’t go there. I think we grew up desiring not to. Which is why when we got old enough and came home, we wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. We wanted to see why we couldn’t go over there. It was to our great disappointment, because there were houses just like ours. Our house looks better than theirs.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay, but what about the fighting? Did they do any fighting?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Oh, yes. There was fighting. However, I would be in New York, so he would see more. The fights were always in the beginning of the school year and definitely at the end of the school year. The last day of school [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>You can’t get suspended. The only thing you can do is go home.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>You’ve been saving up the whole year for the last day of school.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Get even time.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I think we even picked fights. It was the last day of school.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>It was wild, I tell you. I think about some of that. There was one in particular. I had a problem with one teacher. This guy—from the moment I walked in his class until the time class was done—did not like me. I didn’t bother with him, but there was this girl that liked me. She was white and she liked me. My thing was, “I can’t do nothing with you. Ain’t no way.” I wasn’t interested, but because she liked me, he was upset about it. She didn’t try to hide it. She liked me and I kept saying, “Look, I can’t do nothing with you.” And he realized what was going on, and one day, he called me outside the classroom and he said, “You are one dirty, stinking, colored boy.” It hit me and I told Dad about it and he said, “Don’t worry about it.” but I still had to deal with this guy</p>
<p>One day in class there was a hand-cranked electrical generator. You can generate electricity with this hand-cranked electrical generator. Now, my dad was a plumber, but he was also a carpenter, and he knew electricity, and he taught me a lot of things. One of the things that he taught me about electricity was if you got in line with the electricity, if you touched it and I’m touching you, then I’m going to get it, okay? He had this electric generator in class and he was trying to prove a point, and the point was that if you touch this—he had us get into a line and hold hands and guess who was last? Guess who was next to last? The young lady. I knew what was going to happen. He was going to crank the generator. He was saying, “Y’all ready?” Everybody was ready. When he made a motion to crank that generator, I snatched my hand out of hers, and her hair stood up on her head, and she said, “Eeeeeee!” [<em>laughs</em>] When she hollered, he looked straight at me. I was standing there looking at him, because I knew. Needless to say, I got an F. I wound up going to summer school and I passed with a B. Stuff like that happened and I couldn’t do anything about it. I had to deal with it.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>So what happened to that girl?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>She followed us right on through high school. She was right there. I can’t remember what her name was, but she graduated.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>But she learned her lesson that—she didn’t mess with you again did she?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We went to high school and I would see her and she would—but that was it. I couldn’t. My dad said, “No,” and that was just it. It was taboo and I just didn’t do it. You have to be obedient to your parents, so I didn’t. And with everything that happened to me, I didn’t want anything to do with that. The only thing that got me interested was when they came to the football field and said, “Hey, y’all want to play?” At first, there was a wall. After playing football the first few times, there were a couple of fights and everybody was like, “Come on.” As time went on, you get tired and you say, “Hey, something’s got to give.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson </strong>So what about the girls? They fought too?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Yeah. The girls fought too. You know how girl fights are—tearing clothes off, pulling hair, scratching. [<em>laughs</em>] There was a lot of that too, but when the girls start fighting, a lot of the guys would get in too and they would hold them and keep them from fighting. At the end of school, there weren’t enough people to stop all the fights that broke out though. The only thing you could do was get on the bus and go home. The last bell rang, run to the bus, and go home [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, you both have come out with really wonderful attitudes.</p>
<p><strong>Román-Toro<br /></strong>How did you guys feel when the Trayvon Martin case happened? How did you act when you heard about that?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I was in Georgia at the time. I was just working in my shop when I found out about it, and I was like, “Man, that thing ain’t going anywhere yet. It’s still there.” I was saying, “Gosh, the only way that this thing is going to leave this city is that some folks just have to die.” How long are we going to be upset with each other? If I get cut, I bleed. If you get cut, you bleed. It’s the same color red. The same thing God did for you, he did it for me. Some folks won’t let it die.</p>
<p>When it happened, I was like, “Wow, here we go again.” Just when you think everything’s good and maybe there’s a chance and we’re doing all right, here we go again. It blew me away. It really hurt, because a lot of people knew me as the guy from Sanford. When I was in school, they used to call me “Sanford.” When Trayvon got killed, everybody was like, “Ain’t you from Sanford? You better look at the news. Something’s going on down there.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you talk to any of your friends down here? What did they say?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Oh, gosh,. You know, you always get some radical friends, because this happened to Grandma and this happened to Granddaddy. The memory is still there too. People say, “I’m going to get in on it too,” and “I’m going to do something about it.” I’m like, “Hey, man. That ain’t the way.” Then the demonstration—I was so glad that they were peaceful. I didn’t want that for Sanford. I didn’t want all that fighting and carrying on. We fought enough.</p>
<p>I’ve got a lot of sisters down here and a lot of kinfolk, and I’m like, “Hey, man. Be peaceful. Let’s let the law work for a change.” I mean, it’s obvious what happened. If the blind man heard what he said to the 9-1-1 operator, I mean, come on. You<a title="">[1]</a> were out to get that young boy and he didn’t do anything but go to the store. Now, I don’t know what had been happening in the past. I don’t know how many break-ins they had had in the past. I don’t condone that kind of stuff. I mean, if there’s a thief, let’s catch him. I don’t want him to break-in mine. I don’t want him to break-in yours either. You work hard and you don’t want anybody breaking in and taking your stuff. but Trayvon wasn’t doing that. This guy was so obsessed that he just had it out for him, and what he did was wrong.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>And overboard.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>The 9-1-1 operator telling you, “Wait ‘til the authorities arrive.” And you’re going to take matters into your own hands, and, as far as I’m concerned, you’re guilty. You shot that young boy and he didn’t do anything to you. You messed with him. It could have been your brother, son, or cousin. He came from Miami. I hate that he came to Sanford for this thing to happen to him, but it opened up a lot of eyes in this city—black and white.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>I was so proud of the City of Sanford. They had a thing from the Sheriff’s Department that said that all through that spring there were no reported fights, no break-ins, no attacks, etc. We stood head-and-shoulders above any community that was having all that outside pressure to do something and we didn’t do it. We stood together.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>And my sister called me and told me, “You should have been here. You should have seen the city. Everybody got together and marched.” It did my heart good. I hate what happened to Trayvon, but it sure did bring this city together and it got people to thinking. I mean, it was something deep inside of me.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>When we’re born, that’s something that’s imbedded inside of us from birth. In New York, we say that white babies are born with a backpack full of privileges, and when the black babies are born, the first thing you get is: “You’re black.” If you come from a black parent, this is one of the first things that you’re going to learn. You are Negro. It’s changed several times since then—colored, African-American, black.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>You heard it different. See, I heard it as, “If you’re white, you’re born with a silver spoon in your mouth. If you’re black, you get a slap on the butt.” [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. Now I want to hear your feelings about what happened to Trayvon.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I’m not an avid television watcher. I certainly try to stay away from the news. I prefer the peace, because I can always hear God speaking. When the Trayvon Martin situation happened, I was unaware of it, but I was in the process of relocating from New York to Sanford, and when I got here in February, I didn’t need the TV. All of our friends and family were talking about it.</p>
<p>What happened to me when I got here, as far as Trayvon is concerned, was that I came downtown really just trying to feel Sanford again, because we were allowed to come on First Street. We used to go to the Rexall Drugs.; we couldn’t eat at the counter thingy, but we could go and get our medicines. Then there was the five-and-dime or the 10-cent store.<a title="">[2]</a> So I came downtown and remembered [inaudible] and Manuel[?] Jacobson and, in passing one of those places and seeing that it was open, I went in.</p>
<p>Immediately, Sarah Jacobson—I got pretty upset, because she wanted to know how I felt about it, but she felt that the world is thinking that Sanford is a horrible place now. and since I was from New York, she wanted to know how I felt. I said to her, “Unfortunately, I’ve just come from New York now, but I’ve lived in Sanford all my life, so I can’t agree with you that this is something different. This has just come out, but they have been killing all along.” That’s what I said to her. “This isn’t new. We don’t know how many black people or children someone has killed and they’re out there in the St. Johns River. I do know that, in my lifetime, Trayvon is not the first one. He’s just the one the Lord is using to clean up Sanford.” Cleaning up Sanford from the top. starting with the police department and everything. We got into a heated discussion, because I wouldn’t back down. I’m the African-American. I know what happened, so I’m not going to listen to you tell me based on what your parents—and all of that. I told her, “Sarah, but you’re still white. You don’t get to have a say in stuff like this. Your opinion is not going to matter to us or to the world, because we look at you and we still see white and all the things that conspired in the meantime.”</p>
<p>She was very proud of her mother. Back during that time, when her mother had Manuel[?] Jacobson, she only had white ladies working for her. Somehow, it had come about in the city that they were going to boycott her, because she didn’t have any black employees. Well, one of the ladies that lived in the neighborhood heard about it and she liked Mrs. Jacobson, so when Mrs. Jacobson got to work that morning to open up the store, this lady was waiting outside so she asked her, “Why are you out here? I’m not open yet.” She said, “Well, I came to apply for that job that you’ve got.” She let her in and she said, “Well, you know I can’t hire you.” And she told her what her credentials would have to be before she could hire her and she just kindly told her that they were going to shut her down that day. She said, “I’ve come here to work for you for free as to save your life.” Sarah thought that that was really great, but not on the woman’s part. she thought her mother had done this awesome thing by letting this black lady come in there. I said, “Sarah, they were going to kill your mother.”</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Kill the business, not kill the mother.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, I don’t see it that way. I don’t see that they were just going to get there and it was going to go over peacefully. I see Mrs. Jacobson in all of that. The black woman really put her life out there to save their livelihood. All Sarah had gotten out of that was that her mother had done this awesome thing for a black woman.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Well, did the woman keep her job? Did she continue to work for her or did she just work one day for free?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. It was for a while until all of that had blown over. People saw that she had employed a black person. From that, Sarah just took this great pride that her mother—I said, “Well, she may have been loved enough by the blacks that this woman would come up to her, but she didn’t do anything great. She came and opened her shop like normal.” We just kind of had it out about that, and she wanted to know how I felt about the Trayvon thing. “Is Sanford really a bad place?” I said, “Well, it’s the same. Nothing’s changed.” She disagreed with me, and that’s okay. I never expected her to agree with me, but I was really pissed inside, because that brought back something. I could feel the ball and the chain around my feet while I was talking to her.</p>
<p>What happens to us is that we know what to say to you and how to be diplomatic when we say it. However, if your attitude is the same as Sarah’s, then we have to come together and see the truth. This isn’t the first time this has happened in Sanford. We really have to control our anger. We don’t intend to be anger[sic], but it angers you when you’re talking to someone and they’re not listening. and you know they’re not listening by what they keep saying back to you. I just finally got tired of talking to Sarah and I told her I didn’t want to discuss that anymore. Sanford hasn’t changed. She said, “I could see this is really upsetting you.” She was laughing and there was this guy there watching. “What’s wrong with you, woman? Okay. it’s your money. It’s your money that’s still got you down here and you own half these buildings here, so okay.” She said, “Well, Patricia, if you’re going to open up a shop down here, you should go over across the street and talk to the black lady over there to see how she’s doing.” I said, “Why? Sarah, I don’t need that, because whatever they’re doing to her, I don’t need to hear her troubles and I’m not going to let any of you all do anything to me while I’m here. I’m from the North, Sarah.” She said, “I still think you should go over there.” I left there with a thorn. I still feel it, but it’s better now, because I get to say it to white people [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>She was purposely sticking something to me. She knew she was doing it. She was laughing the whole time. That bothered me and it really discouraged me from even being downtown. I’m opening my shop over on Sanford Avenue across 25<sup>th</sup> Street. Sarah’s not invited [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you have other encounters with blacks or whites in Sanford that you knew when you lived here all those years?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>, at this time I’m not going to repeat any of it, because it’s not suitable for the audience. It was negative towards whites. I’m using that word, because I can and it’s true. Sanford as a city has done nothing but grown. It’s the people in Sanford—both black and white. When we speak about different situations, we’re talking about the whites. In our minds—well, they are in charge. Even if we did say “the city of Sanford,” we still mean “whites.” They had lots of opinions, but they were basically what we’ve shared about whites.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>Our house was next to the bushes, so there wasn’t anything else back there. There was a big ol’ yard. When I went outside—growing up, I can remember having no shirt on—short pants, barefoot. I can remember wearing a shirt, short pants, barefoot. I can remember standing in the road, because my aunt—she used to keep me, and I would always be outside when a story came on called <em>Search for Tomorrow</em>. Do you remember that?</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Yeah [<em>laughs</em>]. Take a look at this white hair.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I remember that. Organ music and everything. And I would go outside, because I didn’t want to be inside the house—no way, no how—because it was on a black-and-white TV. I’d be outside and I’d look over there, because the house across the street was Mr. Jack and Mrs. Blanch’s. They were old folk. No one around was my age except Patricia and—and lived across the alley.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>There were other kids, but this is Tenth Street, but when you get to the stop sign, this is where I am. This is the end of Tenth Street—a dead end, actually. It was just he and I as children over here, so we all played together at some point. But at the end of the day, and even at the beginning of the day, it was he and I. Today, we are best friends.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We got close.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>He can tell you what I looked like. He swears I had ponytails all the time.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>And it wasn’t hard to figure out who I was either. It was like this most of the time, because this is the only kind of haircut you got. [<em>laughs</em>] Some of the old ladies would plait them. They would take one piece of hair and make this long plait and they’d [inaudible] back and one back here—four big plaits and that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I always had plaits.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Now, did she wear little dresses or would she wear shorts?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>She had a little dress on. Every now and then she’d come out with shorts.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>Well, at the age of seven, my mother taught me to sew. At the age of eight, I was doing well enough that, at 10, she bought me my own sewing machine. I would come home from Hopper around third or fourth grade, and all the kids would come out and gather together to go out and play. I would be finishing up my little halter and shorts, and I would go out in an outfit that I just made in 15 minutes. That’s when I would have on shorts. Yeah, but he’s my best friend.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did you ever see him play football?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. That was during the time we separated in spirit, due to the other part of my story. We separated even though we were still there.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Talk about the separation.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We didn’t see each other for about 50 years.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>We used to walk to school together. Young girls they grow up faster than we do, and they reach a certain point where they lose their mind. It’s just crazy. As young guys we’re like, “What’s the matter with them?” It’s because we don’t have that yet. It was me and you and a whole bunch of girls, and it got to the point where they were way ahead of me. I didn’t have a clue. I realized that something was going on, and at the age that I was, I didn’t want to be a part of it. We used to have to walk to school—talk about no bus. They said, “If you live two miles away, the bus will come.”</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>We lived two blocks from the two miles.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>But they told us, “You guys can’t ride the bus,” so we walked. It was a trip. It got to the point where you would see people that lived right around the corner of the school get on the bus. They’d drive from the schoolhouse and drop them off.</p>
<p>We used to walk. And they had gotten to the point where they had begun to walk fast, so me being the only guy, I knew something was different. You start growing up and you start looking in the mirror and you see them and you see yourself and you say, “Nah. I don’t fit. I’m not what they’re looking for.” When they sped up, I slowed down, because I just didn’t—you know, after you’re called “ugly” enough…</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>You were shy.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No. I went through school being called ugly, big head, big lips, big feet, and all this stuff. You know, after you hear that enough, you kind of think, “You know, I don’t want to deal with that.” Then I would purposely wait until I would see them turn the corner, and then I would walk on to school. When I got to Sanford Middle School, I already had a license. At 13 years old, I had a driver’s license. I had restriction at 13. I had operator’s at 14. All that walking was done once I got my license.</p>
<p>One of my uncles had a car that was in the bushes and I wanted the car. He laughed me up under the porch. He laughed and laughed. And I stood there until he finally said, “You really want that car, don’t you?” He said, “If you could get it out of the bushes, you can have it.” I went and got my dad’s truck and pulled it out of the bushes. I carried it over to my house, and three days later, I drove it over to his house [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>I had my driver’s license, and I taught my aunt, which was his wife—I taught her how to drive, because he’d try, but he’d freak out and holler at her. I taught her how to drive, so he loved me. I was driving his truck and he bought a Cadillac for her, and she was scared of that car. It was so big. I would drive the Cadillac. Woo, man. The car I pulled out of the bushes. I would drive that. It wasn’t a big deal.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. I want to hear a little more about the car. What kind it was and what you did to repair it? That became your life’s calling?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>I was fixing [inaudible] and lawnmowers since I was eight years old. I didn’t know why. All I knew was that I could do it. When I got the car—which was a ‘64 Oldsmobile Starfire—it was like a tank. It was cast iron. I was teaching her how to drive one day, and she just tore it all up. We didn’t have any insurance. Nothing wrong with the car. [<em>laughs</em>] The other car was all torn up and the owner said, “You could go. [<em>laughs</em>] It was a light blue ’64 Starfire. I got that thing running.</p>
<p>I carried it home, rose up the hood, and started checking stuff out—spark plugs, distributor, wires, battery. and it didn’t take much. I put some gas in it and fired it up. He just gave up on it, basically. I think about that now that I run an automotive repair shop and think, “It just needed a tune-up.” It cut off on him and he went and pushed it into the bushes.</p>
<p>I was driving in junior high school. So when they took off walking, I rode a bicycle for a while, and then I started walking. It wasn’t a big deal. I would see them walking on the other side of the road.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And you didn’t even offer them a ride?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>No [<em>laughs</em>]. I was doing good[sic]. I was satisfied. I drove all the way through high school and everything. I always had something to drive. My dad used to have an old Chevy pickup. I used to drive that. I fixed it up for him. I didn’t realize that God put that gift in me until later—until I accepted him and got saved.</p>
<p>I was reading the Bible—about [King] Solomon. When he was building the [First] Temple, he was trying to figure out, “Who’s going to help me?” Then God told him, “This guy over here knows about bricks, this guy knows about wood, etc.” I got to thinking and realized, “You did that.” [<em>laughs</em>] I thought that I was going to be the mailman after I got out of the army.</p>
<p>I had taken the post office’s<a title="">[3]</a> exam. scored big time. After I came from taking the test, they told me, “You’ve got three interviews already.” I said, “Shoot. I’m going to be the mailman.” I had had about three tickets in the past. I went to Macon and they said, “Oh, you had these a long time ago. Just clear your racket and you’re good. Take the test and everything.” I go to my first interview, and the guy said, “It looks good, but you have too many tickets.” I said, “What do you mean I have ‘too many tickets?’ I talked to these people at Macon and they told me that my driving record is good.” He said, “Man, I can’t use you. You’ve got too many tickets.” I said, “I know what I’m going to do. I’m going back down to Macon to straighten this out.” I went back down to Macon and got another ticket. [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p>Now I’m sitting there in the car, and I’m saying to myself, “Lord, what do you want me to do?” He said, “Go home. Enroll in school.” I went home and went to the schoolhouse and enrolled in school and I started the very next day. That’s what he wanted me to do, and I signed up for automotive technology. They thought that I was the best thing since ice cream. I was just doing what I know, and they were like, “Nobody like you has ever come through here.” I kept saying, “Man, all these mechanics...” They said, “Look, no one like you has ever come through here.” I would get my grades and throw them on the table. When it came time to graduate, the instructor walked up to me and gave me these papers and said, “Fill these out.” I looked at the papers and they said, “National Honors Society.” I said, “You got the wrong person. Wait a minute now. National Honors Society means that I’m going to wear a white gown. You got the wrong person.” The guy said, “No. you haven’t seen your grade point average.” I said, “Well, what is it?” He said, “It’s 4.2.” I said, “4.2? How do you get 4.2?” I built a car, and that’s how I got 4.2.</p>
<p>This young lady and I were in the class, and I guess we were neck-to-neck and it got to the end of the class, and I said, “I’ll know what I’ll do. I’ll just build a car. You know, I’ll just put the engine in, and the transmission and everything.” They said, “You ain’t going to be able to do that.” I looked them and said, “Y’all don’t know.” I built that car and I didn’t realize they were looking at me, because I would go to the end of the hall, where the car was, so I could work on it. But they were looking. Finally, I finished it and I stood there and looked at it. I put the key in and fired it up and it looked like everybody came out of the woodwork and it looked like everybody came out and started clapping and everything. I was like, <em>Wow</em>. [<em>laughs</em>] So I filled out the papers and was part of the National Honors Society.</p>
<p>I was floored. I didn’t think that was me. As they finished with the National Honors Society, they said, “Now we’re going to name the Student of the Year.” And they’re going on about this guy and they’re just talking about how great he is and how good he is and I’m saying to myself, <em>This guy must be—goodness, boy. This guy really did good</em>[sic]. They just kept talking until they said, “The Student of the Year is Billy Hardy.” And I’m sitting there and they’re just clapping and hollering, and I’m sitting there, because it didn’t hit me yet. and somebody said to me, “They just called your name.” I looked around at the instructor and walked up to the podium and said, “Y’all said all that about me?” I was like, <em>Wow</em>. I’ve been doing it ever since he blessed me to open up a shop. I worked at the dealership and a couple of other shops and then he blessed me with my own shop.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Were you in contact with him when he was in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>No. It really was 50 years. It was 50 years last year since we saw each other. It’s been a year now.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>When I left, I left. I’d come home and ride in and ride out.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I wouldn’t see him though. We still lived in the same places, but we didn’t contact each other. The separation was my doing. I did it because of what was going on in my home. He and I were so close that I knew what he knew. The separation was me not wanting to ruin him by telling him what was happening to me all those years.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Okay. If you want to tell that. We have 14 minutes left.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I’m the one that started to walk ahead. I would look over the corner to see if he had come out. If he hadn’t, I would shoot out so I would be ahead. That was because I decided not to tell him what was going on. He was quiet and I could just tell he wouldn’t have known what to do with that information. This had already been happening to me for six years at that point, and we had played together up until that point, so I had to make a decision. It wasn’t until all these years later that I could tell him why.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>You can tell that if you’d like to.</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I had been being molested every week by a family friend in my home or wherever he would drive me to. At one point, Billy and I were playing and he dared me not to do something to him. and I was always hitting on him and everything, because he’s always been a whole lot bigger than me and he dared me this time. He always let me have my way, but this time he was saying, “Oh, you better not do that.” I knew he was serious, but I also knew I was his girl and he was going to let me get away with it. so I did real quickly and I ran across to my yard and he came running after me. The guy that was molesting me was standing there and I ran into the house and as Billy was running to come up behind me, the man hit him. and when I looked back I realized the man was really fixed on me. Billy got up to come after me again, not knowing why this strong man that he didn’t know would punch him like that, and he punched him again. so I knew I had to leave him alone. I made the decision to walk ahead.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>Did he hurt him?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>He hit me pretty good. I was just a little fella. If I find him again—I don’t know. I remember clearly how he did that, and I couldn’t have done anything, because this guy was swinging some hammers. He knocked me down about three times and the only thing I could do was get up and go home, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I couldn’t look anymore. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know if to tell him that this is what the guy was doing. For me, I let Billy go. I didn’t want to mess him up or leave him thinking he had to save me or something, so I did that. The girls didn’t do that. I was the one that said, “Here comes Billy. Walk a little faster.” The girls didn’t even know why. It was very painful for both of us.</p>
<p>At the age of six, he and I were playing make-believe, and the aunt that he was talking about saw us and called my mother. And at six years old, I got the beating of my life. It was my molester that went and caught me and brought me back, and my mother beat me with a leather belt. and when she stopped swinging me around, I got introduced to shame. The guy was standing there and he watched me get the beating, and from there, he began to touch me and became my friend. So I thought I was saving Billy at that time.</p>
<p>We would still go to school, but we ignored the feelings we had for each other. We were in love at six years old. We went to the store on one of the lawnmowers that he hadn’t fixed yet. I have no idea where I learned any of that from. But for me, the separation was very difficult. because your friend doesn’t know what is going on and I just couldn’t tell him or anybody else.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>And for how long did that go on?</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>For 11 years. I was 17. By the time. But by that time, our lives had gone in different directions.</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>When did you go to the military?</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>In ’76. After football season I said, “It’s time to go.”</p>
<p><strong>Black<br /></strong>I never did try to contact him all these years. I wouldn’t ask his sisters or anybody where he was. I just always prayed to God that one day, I could see him again. and, lo and behold, that was last year. It was always in me, because the day after, he never asked me, “What happened to you?” We never asked each other that. I believe that if he had asked me that, it would have given me a chance to say. But since we didn’t—by the time we’re 12, I’m trying to protect him. I had determined, through all those years, that if my name ever came out of his mouth, I would go.</p>
<p>It was 50 years later, and he was talking to a cousin, and he asked about me and she called me in New York and told me, “Billy was asking about you. He wants your number.” And I asked, “My Billy?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “Billy boy? My Billy boy?” And I started to cry and asked her, “’Tricia, is it my Billy boy?” And she kept saying, “Yes.” Even she knew what it was. She asked, “Do you want me to give him your number?” I said, “No. give me his.” It had been long enough. I called him immediately, and, probably to his annoyance, I called him every day since then [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>My father owned a school bus, a big truck, and a car. The bus was to carry the people up North and the yard was always full. The backyard was where Daddy kept all his vehicles was actually right in his view.</p>
<p><strong>Hardy<br /></strong>So I knew when they came from up North. When the trucks and the buses were out there, I knew she was back. We were like Forrest Gump and Jenny [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Thompson<br /></strong>This was just wonderful and I’d love to do it again.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> George [Michael] Zimmerman.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Next to the Sanford Atlantic Bank.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> United States Postal Service (USPS).</p>
</div>
</div>
10th Street
11th Street
1st Street
25th Street
African Americans
Army
Bay Avenue
Bigham, Patricia Ann Black
Black, Patricia Ann
car
Celery Avenue
Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play
child molestation
Clemens, Jimmy
Columbus, Georgia
Creative Sanford, Inc.
Crooms Academy
Crooms High School
desegregation
Eleventh Street
First Street
football
Hardy, Bill
Hopper Academy
Howard, Pat
integration
Jacobson, Manuel
Jacobson, Sarah
Jones, Willie
Lakeview Middle School
Martin, Trayvon Benjamin
Mellonville Avenue
migrant worker
miscegenation
National Honor Society
New York
NHS
North Rose Wolcott School
Oldsmobile Starfire
Operation Desert Storm
oral history
race relations
Rexall
Rochester, New York
Roman-Toro, Freddie
Sanford
Sanford Avenue
Sanford Junior High School
Sanford Middle School
school
segregation
Seminole High School
sexual abuse
taboo
Tenth Street
Thompson, Trish
U.S. Route 17-92
veteran
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c15371e0c6ae5885bc6f64ccd636cea1.tif
61de1989e782d8c8396d65702b9fa1dc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
U.S. Census Collection
Alternative Title
Census Collection
Subject
Census--United States
Population--United States
Orange County (Fla.)
Marion County (Fla.)
Brevard County (Fla.)
St. Lucie County (Fla.)
Seminole County (Fla.)
Volusia County (Fla.)
Flagler County (Fla.)
Lake County (Fla.)
Osceola County (Fla.)
Description
Collection of United States Census population records for various counties in Central Florida from 1840 to 2000.
The Census Act of 1840 was signed into law on March 3, 1839 and later amended on February 26, 1840. This piece of legislation established a centralized census office during each enumeration. Congress designated the census questionnaire designs to the Secretary of State. However, each household received inquiries regarding "the pursuits, industry, education, and resources of the country" and included questions related to school attendance, literacy, and vocation.
In March of 1849, Congress pass legislation that established a census board consisting of the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, and the Postmaster General. The board was responsible for preparing and printing forms and schedules for enumeration related to population, mining, agriculture, commerce, manufacturing, education, etc. The 1850 Census also increased population inquiries to include every free person's name (as opposed to just the head of the household), as well as information on taxes, schools, crime, wages, estate values, etc.
The Census Act of 1850 authorized the U.S. Census of 1860 and stipulated that its provisions be adhered to for all future decennial censuses should no new legislation be passed by the first of the year of said census. In May of 1865, the U.S. Census Office was abolished and many superintending clerks were transferred to the General Land Office.
Although the 1870 Census was conducted under the provisions of the Census Act of 1850, a new act was passed on May 6, 1870. The new census legislation required two changes in procedures related to questionnaire return submission dates. Moreover, penalties for refusing to reply to inquires were expanded to apply to all questions and questionnaires. The questionnaires themselves had to be redesigned due to the end of the "slave questionnaire", as slavery had been formally abolished slavery nationwide via the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This left five schedules for the census: General Population, Mortality, Agriculture, Products of Industry, and Social Statistics. In addition, the use of a Charles W. Seaton, a U.S. Census Office chief clerk and later superintendent, invited a rudimentary tallying machine that partially alleviated the difficulties of tallying and tabulating questionnaire responses. Finally, the new superintendent for the Ninth Census, General Francis A. Walker, introduced employment examinations to test the qualifications of applicants to the Census Office, allowing for increased efficiency in the process of collecting census data.
The newest act authorizing the Census of 1880 provided for supervision of enumeration by "supervisors of the census", selected exclusively for the collection of census data. All supervisors, as well as the superintendent, were to appointed by the U.S. President and approved by the Senate. Census enumerators were required to personally visit each household and family within his subdivision. The new census act also allowed for the collection of data related to the condition and operation of railroad corporations, incorporated express companies, and telegraph companies, as well as data related to the condition and operation of life, fire, and marine insurance companies. Corporations who refused to provide the census with "true and complete" answers were subject to fines. In addition, the census superintendent was required to collect and publish data on the population, industries and resources of the District of Alaska. Finally, the 1880 Census consisted of five schedules: Population, Mortality, Agriculture, Social Statistics, and Manufacturing.
The Census of 1890 was authorized by an act modeled after the 1880 enumeration and signed into law on March 1, 1889. The 1890 Census was supervised by 175 employees and enumerators were required to collect all information by personally visiting each household. The 1890 Census included essentially the same inquires from the 1880 Census, with some notable additions, such as questions about home and farm ownership and indebtedness; and the names, units, length of service, and residences of former Union soldiers and sailors, as well as the names of the widows of those who were no longer alive. Racial categorization was expanded to include "Japanese", along with "Chinese", "Negro", "mulatto", "quadroon", "octoroon", and "White". Herman Hollerith, a former employee of the U.S. Census Office, invited the electric tabulating system, which was widely used in the 1890 Census, allowing data to be processed faster and more efficiently. On October 3, 1893, Congress passed a law that transferred census-related work to the direction of the commissioner of labor. Congress passed another act on March 2, 1895, effectively abolishing the U.S. Census Office and transferring the remaining responsibilities to the Office of the Secretary of the Interior.
Congress limited the Census of 1900 to content related to population, mortality, agriculture, and manufacturing. Special census agents were authorized to collect statistics related to incidents of deafness, blindness, insanity, and juvenile delinquency; as well as data on religious bodies, utilities, mining, and transportation. The act authorizing the 1900 Census designated the enumeration of military personally to the U.S. Department of War and the U.S. Department of the Navy, while Indiana Territory was to be enumerated by the commissioner of Indian Affairs. Annexed in 1898, Hawaii was included in the census for the first time. In 1902, the U.S. Census Office was officially established as a permanent organization within the U.S. Department of the Interior. The office became the U.S. Census Bureau in 1903 and was transferred to the Department of Commerce and Labor.
The Census of 1910 was approved by legislation introduced in December of 1907 and enacted in July of 1909. The delay was the result of a disagreement over the appointment of enumerators. President Theodore Roosevelt supported the hiring of enumerators via the civil service system, while Congress supported enumerators as positions of patronage. President Roosevelt successfully won the debate. This census act also changed Census Day from the traditional date of June 1st to April 15th. Additional questions regarding the nationality and native language of foreign-born persons and their parents. Funds for the U.S. Census Bureau were also increased to expand the Census' permanent workforce and created several new full-time positions, including a geographer, a chief statistician, and an assistant director. The assistant director was to be appointed by the President and approved by the Senate, while all other census employees were hired on the basis of open, competitive examinations administered by the Civil Service Commission. Despite the use of automatic counting machinery, issues with the tabulation process persisted. Finally, with the United States' entrance into World War I in 1917, the U.S. Census Bureau became a source of even more valuable purpose: the Census was able to use population and economic data to report on the populations of draft-age men, as well as information regarding each state's industrial capabilities.
The Census of 1920 changed the date of Census Day from April 15th to January 1st, as requested by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which argued that farmers' memories and harvest information would be more accurate on this day. The U.S. Census Bureau was also authorized to hire additional employees at its headquarters in Washington, D.C. and to create a special field force to collect census data. The legislation authorizing the 1920 Census also allowed for a census of manufacturing to be conducted in 1921, and for such a census to be repeated every two years thereafter, as opposed to the traditional five-year census cycle. Furthermore, a census of agriculture and livestock was to be conducted in 1925 and to be repeated every ten years thereafter. In addition, penalties for those who refused to supply information or those who supplied false information were strengthened. As a result of these changes, census of population, manufacturing, and agriculture and livestock became increasingly independent of one another.
The "usual place of abode", the location where residents regularly slept, instead of where they worked or were visiting, became the new basis for enumeration in the 1920 Census. Those with no permanent or regular residence were listed as residents of the location that they were enumerated at. Enumeration related to institutional inmates and dependent, defective, and delinquent classes were also modified. Unlike the previous census, the 1920 Census did not have inquires related to unemployment, to Union or Confederate Army or Navy service, to the number of children born, or to the length of time that a couple had been married. The Census of 1920, however, did include four additional questions: one regarding year of naturalization and three regarding native languages. Issues also arose as a result of changes in international boundaries following World War I, particularly for persons declaring birth or parental birth in Austria-Hungary, Germany, Russia, or Turkey. In response, enumerators were required to ask said persons for their province, state, or region of birth. Enumerators were not required to ask individuals how to spell their names, nor were respondents required to provide proof of various pieces of information. Race was determined by the enumerator's impressions.
The act authorizing the 1930 Census was approved on June 18, 1929, allowing for a census of population, agriculture, irrigation, draining, distribution, unemployment, and mining. For the first time, specific questions for inquiry were left to the discretion of the Director of the Census. The Census encompassed each state, as well as the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. The Governors of Guam, American Samoa, the Virginia Islands, and the Panama Canal Zone were responsible for conducting censuses in their territory. Between the date that the census act was passed and Census Day (April 1st), the stock market crashed, plunging the entire country into the Great Depression. In response, there were public and academic requests for access to unemployment data collected in the 1930 Census; however, the U.S. Census Bureau was unable to meet this demands and the bureau was accused of present unreliable data. Congress required a special unemployment census for January 1931, which ultimately confirmed the severity of the economic crisis. Another unemployment census was conducted in 1937, as mandated by Congress. Because this special census was voluntary, it allowed the Census Bureau to experiment with statistical sampling. Only two percent of households received a special census questionnaire.
Congress authorized the 1940 Census in August 1939, providing the Director of the Census the additional authority to conduct a national census of housing in each state, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Alaska. The housing census was conducted separately, though enumerators often collection housing information at the same time that they collected population information. The Census of 1940 was the first time that the U.S. Census Bureau used advanced statistical techniques. In particular, the census used probably sampling, which had only previously been tested in a trial census of unemployment conducted the Civil Works Administration during 1933-1934, in surveys of retail stores in the 1930s, and in an official sample survey of unemployment conducted amongst two percent of American households in 1937. Probability sampling allowed for the inclusion of additional demographic questions without increasing the burden on the collection process or on data processing. Moreover, sampling the U.S. Census Bureau was able to publish preliminary returns eight months before tabulations were completed. Likewise, the census increased its number of published tables, and also was able to complete data processing with higher quality and more efficiency. New census questions focused on employment, unemployment, internal migration, and incomes—reflecting on the concerns of the Great Depression, the country's housing stock, and the need for public housing programs.
The Census of 1950 encompassed every state, Alaska, Hawaii, American Samoa, the Panama Canal Zone, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and other small American territories. For the first time, the U.S. Census Bureau enumerate American living abroad to account for members of the U.S. Armed Forces, vessel crew members, and government employees residing in foreign countries. The U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Department of State, the U.S. Maritime Administration, and several other federal agencies were responsible for distributing and collecting census questionnaires in a cooperative effort. Persons living abroad for reasons other than what is listed above had their census information reported by families or neighbors residing in the United States, but such data was criticized as unreliable and were not published in official statistics. The 1950 Census also included a new survey on residential financing collected separately on a sample basis from owners of owner-occupied properties, rental properties, and mortgage lenders. The accuracy of the new census was increased by improved enumerator training, the use of detailed street maps for enumerators, the publication of "Missed Person" forms in local newspapers, and the designation of a specific night to conduct a special enumeration of transient individuals. Moreover, a post-enumeration survey was conducted to further verify the accuracy of the original enumeration. A sample of approximately 3,500 small areas was compared to the original census data to identify households that may have been omitted initially. Likewise, a sample of approximately 22,000 households were re-interviewed to identify persons omitted in the original enumeration count. Though not used for the 1950 Census, the UNIVersal Automatic Computer I (UNIVAC I), the first non-military computer, was used to tabulate some of the statistics for the 1954 census of economy. In August of 1954, Congress codified various census statutes, such as the Fifteenth Census Act of 1929, authorizing the decennial census and other census.
The Census of 1960 was the first to be mailed to respondents. The U.S. Postal Service delivered census questionnaires to households, the head of household was required to complete the questionnaire, and an enumerator was to pick it up. The enumeration process was divided into two stages: first, select data for each person and dwelling unit was collected; and second, more detailed economic and social data was collected from a sample of households and dwelling units. The census questionnaires for the second stage were hand-delivered by enumerators as they were collecting data from the first stage. Households receiving the second census questionnaire were to complete the form and mail it to their local census office. Twenty-five percent of the population was giving additional sample questions. Because of the increased use of sampling, less populated areas were prone to sampling variation; however, this did not significantly decrease the usefulness of census statistics gathered. Moreover, increased use of sampling reduced data processing costs. Additional questions included in the 1960 Census were related to places of works and means of transportation to work. By 1960, nearly all census data was processed using computers. The U.S. Census Bureau used a Film Optical Sensing Device for Input to Computer (FOSDIC) for the first time, thus decreasing the amount of time and money required for data input.
In 1966, the U.S. Census Bureau sought suggestions from advisory committees and from the public, resulting in numerous proposals for additional inquiries related to the scope and structure of the census, as well as in public interest for the publication of additional census data. Researchers also concluded that the 1950 Census and the 1960 Census had undercounted certain segments of the population. Moreover, they noted a growing distrust of government activity and increased resistance to responding to the census. Simultaneously, both the public and private sectors expressed need for accurate information. The U.S. Census Bureau decreased its number of questions from 66 to 23 in an effort to simplify its products. A register for densely populated areas was also created to ensure that all housing units were accounted for. A Spanish-language questionnaire was also enclosed with census questionnaires in areas with a significant amount of Spanish-speaking households. Additionally, a question on Hispanic origins or descent was asked independently from race, but only on a five-percent sample. Only five questions were given to all individuals: relationship to household head, sex, race, age, and marital status. Additional questions were asked in smaller sample groups. This was also the first census in which respondents of urban areas were asked to mail their forms to the Census Bureau, rather than to hold questionnaires for enumerators.
Address Coding Guides were used to assign census geographic codes to questionnaires. Counts, a series of computer tape files, were an additional innovation used to increase the accuracy of census data. Count 1 consisted of complete count data for block groups and/or enumeration districts. Count 2 contained census tracts and minor civil/census county divisions, while Count 3 consisted of census blocks. Counts 4-6 provided sample census data for geographic areas of various population sizes. The Census Bureau also produced six Public Use Microdata Sample files, each of which contained complete information for a sample of approximately two million people. Finally, the Census Bureau developed the Summary Tape Processing Center Program, which was a group of organizations, both public and private, that processed census data from computer tapes.
For the 1990 Census, the U.S. Census Bureau utilized extensive user consultation prior to enumeration in order to refine both long and short form census questionnaires. The short form consisted of 13 questions and was given to the entire population. The long form asked 45 questions and was given to a 20 percent sample. The long form included topics related to marital history, carpooling, residence, residential elevators, and energy usage. Unlike the 1980 Census, the new census eliminated questions regarding air conditioning, the number of bathrooms in a residence, and the type of heating equipment used. A vast advertising campaign was marketed to increase public awareness of the census via public television, radio, and print media. Like the previous census, the Census of 1990 made a special effort to enumerate groups that have historically been undercounted in previous censuses called "S-Night": individuals in homeless shelters, soup kitchens, bus and railway stations, and dormitories (enumerated separately in the 1980 Census on "M-Night"); and permanent residents in hotels and motels (enumerated separately in the 1980 Census on "T-Night"). Following legal issues filed in response to the 1980 Census regarding statistical readjustment of undercounted areas, the Census Bureau initiated a post-enumeration survey (PES), in which a contemporaneous survey of households would be conducted and compare to the census results from the official census. In a partial resolution of a 1989 lawsuit filed by New York plaintiffs, the U.S. Department of Commerce agreed to use the PES to produce population data that had been adjusted for the projected undercount and that said data would be judged against the unadjusted data by the Secretary of Commerce's Special Advisory Panel (SAP).
The Census of 1990 also introduced the U.S. to the Topologically Integrated Geographic Encoding and Referencing System (TIGER), which was developed by the U.S. Geological Survey and the Census Bureau. TIGER used computerized representations of various map features to geographically code addresses into appropriate census geographic areas. It also produced different maps required for census data collection and tabulation. Five years earlier, the Census Bureau became the first government agency to publish information on CD-ROM. For the 1990 Census, the bureau made detailed census data, which had previously been only available to organizations with large mainframe computers, accessible to any individual with a personal computer. Census data was also available in print, on computer tape, and on microfiche. Using two online service vendors, DIALOG and CompuServe, the Census Bureau also published select census data online.
As with previous censuses, the 1990 Census undercounted the national population, and again, the African-American population had an estimated net undercount rate that was significantly higher than the rate for other races. In July of 1991, the Secretary of Commerce announced that he did not find evidence in favor of using adjusted counts compelling—despite SAP's split vote on the issue—and chose to use unadjusted totals for the official census results. In response, the New York plaintiffs resumed the lawsuit against the Department of Commerce. A federal district court divided in favor of the DOC in April of 1993. The U.S. Court of Appeals, however, rejected the previous court ruling and ordered that the case be reheard by the federal district court. In March of 1996, the U.S. Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of the Secretary of Commerce's decision to use the unadjusted census date, but did not rule on the legality or constitutionality of the use of statistical adjustment in producing apportionment counts.
For the 1990 Census, the U.S. Census Bureau utilized extensive user consultation prior to enumeration in order to refine both long and short form census questionnaires. The short form consisted of 13 questions and was given to the entire population. The long form asked 45 questions and was given to a 20 percent sample. The long form included topics related to marital history, carpooling, residence, residential elevators, and energy usage. Unlike the 1980 Census, the new census eliminated questions regarding air conditioning, the number of bathrooms in a residence, and the type of heating equipment used. A vast advertising campaign was marketed to increase public awareness of the census via public television, radio, and print media. Like the previous census, the Census of 1990 made a special effort to enumerate groups that have historically been undercounted in previous censuses called "S-Night": individuals in homeless shelters, soup kitchens, bus and railway stations, and dormitories (enumerated separately in the 1980 Census on "M-Night"); and permanent residents in hotels and motels (enumerated separately in the 1980 Census on "T-Night"). Following legal issues filed in response to the 1980 Census regarding statistical readjustment of undercounted areas, the Census Bureau initiated a post-enumeration survey (PES), in which a contemporaneous survey of households would be conducted and compare to the census results from the official census. In a partial resolution of a 1989 lawsuit filed by New York plaintiffs, the U.S. Department of Commerce agreed to use the PES to produce population data that had been adjusted for the projected undercount and that said data would be judged against the unadjusted data by the Secretary of Commerce's Special Advisory Panel (SAP).
The Census of 1990 also introduced the U.S. to the Topologically Integrated Geographic Encoding and Referencing System (TIGER), which was developed by the U.S. Geological Survey and the Census Bureau. TIGER used computerized representations of various map features to geographically code addresses into appropriate census geographic areas. It also produced different maps required for census data collection and tabulation. Five years earlier, the Census Bureau became the first government agency to publish information on CD-ROM. For the 1990 Census, the bureau made detailed census data, which had previously been only available to organizations with large mainframe computers, accessible to any individual with a personal computer. Census data was also available in print, on computer tape, and on microfiche. Using two online service vendors, DIALOG and CompuServe, the Census Bureau also published select census data online.
As with previous censuses, the 1990 Census undercounted the national population, and again, the African-American population had an estimated net undercount rate that was significantly higher than the rate for other races. In July of 1991, the Secretary of Commerce announced that he did not find evidence in favor of using adjusted counts compelling—despite SAP's split vote on the issue—and chose to use unadjusted totals for the official census results. In response, the New York plaintiffs resumed the lawsuit against the Department of Commerce. A federal district court divided in favor of the DOC in April of 1993. The U.S. Court of Appeals, however, rejected the previous court ruling and ordered that the case be reheard by the federal district court. In March of 1996, the U.S. Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of the Secretary of Commerce's decision to use the unadjusted census date, but did not rule on the legality or constitutionality of the use of statistical adjustment in producing apportionment counts.
For the Census of 2000, the short form consisted of only seven questions, while the long form consisted of 52 questions and used for a 17 percent sample of the population. For the first time, race questions were not limited to a single category; rather, respondents were able to check multiple boxes. A new question related to grandparents as caregivers was also mandated by legislation passed in 1996. Disability questions were expanded to including hearing and vision impairments, as well as learning, memory, and concentration disabilities. The 2000 Census also eliminated questions related to children born, water sources, sewage disposal, and condominium status. In addition, the 2000 Census was the first in which the Internet was used as the principal medium for the dissemination of census information. Summary Files were available for download immediately upon release and individual tables could be viewed via American FactFinder, the Census Bureau's online database. Files were also available for purchase on CD-Rom and DVD.
Due to declining questionnaire mail-back rates, the U.S. Census Bureau marketed a $167 million national and local print, television, and public advertising campaign in 17 different languages. The campaign successfully brought the mail-back rate up to 67 percent. Additionally, respondents receiving the short form were given the option of responding via the Internet. Telephone questionnaire assistance centers available in 6 languages also took responses via the phone. Statistical sampling techniques were utilized in two ways: first, to alter the traditional 100 percent personal visit of non-responding households during the non-response follow-up (NRFU) process by instead following up on a smaller sample basis; second, the sampling of 750,000 housing units matched to housing unit questionnaires obtained from mail and telephone responses, as well as from personal visits. The goal of the latter was to develop adjustment factors for individuals estimated to have been missed or duplicated and to correct the census counts to produce one set of numbers. This "one-number census" would correct for net coverage errors called Integrated Coverage Measurement (ICM). Both of these measures were taken in an attempt to avoid repetition of the litigation costs generated by the 1980 Census and the 1990 Census. Despite these efforts, two lawsuits—one filed by the U.S. House of Representatives—were filed in February 1998 challenging the constitutionality and legality of the planned uses of sampling to produce apportionment counts. Both cases were decided in favor of the plaintiffs in federal district courts, but the U.S. Department of Commerce made appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court. Known as the U.S. Department of Commerce v. the U.S. House of Representatives, the Court ruled that the Census Bureau's plans to use statistical sampling for purposes of congressional apportionments violated the Census Act. The bureau revised its plan, stating that it would produce statistically adjusted data for non-apportionment uses of census data information, such as redistricting. However, in March of 2001, the Census Bureau recommended against the use of adjusted census data for redistricting due to accuracy concerns; the Secretary of Commerce determined that the unadjusted data would be released as the bureau's official redistricting data. The Director of the Census Bureau also rejected to the use of adjusted data for non-redistricting purposes in October of that same year.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Mosquito County, Florida
Brevard County, Florida
Flagler County, Florida
Lake County, Florida
Marion County, Florida
Orange County, Florida
Osceola County, Florida
Seminole County, Florida
Volusia County, Florida
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Contributor
Gibson, Ella
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<span>This resource is not subject to copyright in the United States and there are no copyright restrictions on reproduction, derivative works, distribution, performance, or display of the work. Anyone may, without restriction under U.S. copyright laws:</span>
<ul class="one_column_bullet"><li>reproduce the work in print or digital form</li>
<li>create derivative works</li>
<li>perform the work publicly</li>
<li>display the work</li>
<li>distribute copies or digitally transfer the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.</li>
</ul><span>This resources is provided here by </span><a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a><span> for educational purposes only. For more information on copyright, please refer to </span><a href="http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#105" target="_blank">Section 5</a><span> of </span><a href="http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html" target="_blank">Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code</a><span>.</span>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
<span>United States. <a href="https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/wright-hunt.pdf" target="_blank"><em>Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970</em></a></span><span>. Washington: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, 1975. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/histstats-colonial-1970.pdf.</span>
<span>United States, and Carroll D. Wright. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/166662" target="_blank"><em>The History and Growth of the United States Census</em></a></span><span>. Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1900. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/wright-hunt.pdf.</span>
"<a href="https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/" target="_blank">Through the Decades</a>." United States Census Bureau, United States Department of Commerce. https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/.
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Original Format
1 table
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
U.S. Census for Central Florida, 2000
Alternative Title
Census, 2000
Subject
Census--United States
Orange County (Fla.)
Marion County (Fla.)
Brevard County (Fla.)
St. Lucie County (Fla.)
Seminole County (Fla.)
Volusia County (Fla.)
Flagler County (Fla.)
Lake County (Fla.)
Osceola County (Fla.)
Population--United States
Description
The Twenty-Second United States Census records for Brevard County, Flagler County, Lake County, Marion County, Orange County, Osceola County, Seminole County, and Volusia County, Florida, for 2000. The census divides the population by gender, race ("white alone," "black," "American Indian and Alaska Native," "Asian," Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander," "other race," "two or moreraces," "Hispanic," "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," "Cuban," "Dominican," "Central American," "Costa Rican," "Guatemalan," "Honduran," "Nicaraguan," "Panamanian," "Salvadoran," "Other Central American," "South American," "Argentinean," "Bolivian," "Chilean," "Columbian," "Ecuadorian," "Paraguayan," "Peruvian," "Uruguayan," "Venezuelan," "Other South American," "Spaniard," "Asian Indian," "Bangladeshi," "Cambodian," "Chinese," "Filipino," "Hmong," "Indonesian," "Japanese," "Korean," "Laotian," "Malaysian," "Pakistani,""Sri Lankan," "Taiwanese," "Vietnamese," and "other Asian"), and native-born vs. foreign-born. Those who are foreign born are further divided by country of origin. The census then lists the population categorized by marital status, type of residence, military service, primary and secondary school attendance, and college attendance. The census also collected information on labor, on unemployment, on energy usage, and on transportation.<br /><br />For the Census of 2000, the short form consisted of only seven questions, while the long form consisted of 52 questions and was used for a 17-percent sample of the population. For the first time, race questions were not limited to a single category; rather, respondents were able to check multiple boxes. A new question related to grandparents as caregivers was also mandated by legislation passed in 1996. Disability questions were expanded to including hearing and vision impairments, as well as learning, memory, and concentration disabilities. The 2000 Census also eliminated questions related to children born, water sources, sewage disposal, and condominium status. In addition, the 2000 Census was the first in which the Internet was used as the principal medium for the dissemination of census information. Summary Files were available for download immediately upon release and individual tables could be viewed via American FactFinder, the Census Bureau's online database. Files were also available for purchase on CD-Rom and DVD.<br /><br />Due to declining questionnaire mail-back rates, the U.S. Census Bureau marketed a $167 million national and local print, television, and public advertising campaign in 17 different languages. The campaign successfully brought the mail-back rate up to 67 percent. Additionally, respondents receiving the short form were given the option of responding via the Internet. Telephone questionnaire assistance centers available in six languages also took responses via the phone. Statistical sampling techniques were utilized in two ways: first, to alter the traditional 100-percent personal visit of non-responding households during the non-response follow-up (NRFU) process instead by following up on a smaller sample basis; second, the sampling of 750,000 housing units matched to housing unit questionnaires obtained from mail and telephone responses, as well as from personal visits. The goal of the latter was to develop adjustment factors for individuals estimated to have been missed or duplicated and to correct the census counts to produce one set of numbers. This "one-number census" would correct for net coverage errors called Integrated Coverage Measurement (ICM). Both of these measures were taken in an attempt to avoid repetition of the litigation costs generated by the 1980 Census and the 1990 Census.<br /><br />Despite these efforts, two lawsuits—one filed by the U.S. House of Representatives—were filed in February 1998 challenging the constitutionality and legality of the planned uses of sampling to produce apportionment counts. Both cases were decided in favor of the plaintiffs in federal district courts, but the U.S. Department of Commerce made appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court. Known as the <em>U.S. Department of Commerce v. the U.S. House of Representatives</em>, the Court ruled that the Census Bureau's plans to use statistical sampling for purposes of congressional apportionments violated the Census Act. The bureau revised its plan, stating that it would produce statistically adjusted data for non-apportionment uses of census data information, such as redistricting. However, in March of 2001, the Census Bureau recommended against the use of adjusted census data for redistricting due to accuracy concerns; the Secretary of Commerce determined that the unadjusted data would be released as the bureau's official redistricting data. The Director of the Census Bureau also rejected to the use of adjusted data for non-redistricting purposes in October of that same year.
Type
Dataset
Source
Original census data collected by the <a href="http://www.census.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Census Bureau</a>, 2000.
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/104" target="_blank">U.S. Census Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Is Format Of
Digital reproduction of original census data collected by the <a href="http://www.census.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Census Bureau</a>, 2000.
Coverage
Brevard County, Florida
Flagler County, Florida
Lake County, Florida
Marion County, Florida
Orange County, Florida
Osceola County, Florida
Seminole County, Florida
Volusia County, Florida
Creator
<a href="http://www.census.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Census Bureau</a>
Publisher
<a href="http://www.commerce.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Department of Commerce</a>
Contributor
Gibson, Ella
Date Created
ca. 2000-04-01
Format
image/jpg
Extent
3.12 MB
Medium
1 table
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Economics Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally collected by the <a href="http://www.census.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Census Bureau</a> and published by the <a href="http://www.commerce.gov/" target="_blank">U.S. Department of Commerce</a>.
Rights Holder
This resource is not subject to copyright in the United States and there are no copyright restrictions on reproduction, derivative works, distribution, performance, or display of the work. Anyone may, without restriction under U.S. copyright laws:
<ul class="one_column_bullet"><li>reproduce the work in print or digital form</li>
<li>create derivative works</li>
<li>perform the work publicly</li>
<li>display the work</li>
<li>distribute copies or digitally transfer the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.</li>
</ul>
This resources is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. For more information on copyright, please refer to <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#105" target="_blank">Section 5</a> of <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html" target="_blank">Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code</a>.
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/overview/2000.html" target="_blank">2000 Overview</a>." U.S. Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/overview/2000.html.
United States, and Carroll D. Wright. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/166662" target="_blank"><em>The History and Growth of the United States Census</em></a>. Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1970. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/wright-hunt.pdf.
U.S. Bureau of the Census. <em><a href="https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/Census2000v1.pdf" target="_blank"><em>History: 2000 Census of Population and Housing</em></a></em><a href="https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/Census2000v1.pdf" target="_blank">, Volume 1</a>. Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1966. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/Census2000v1.pdf.
U.S. Bureau of the Census. <a href="https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/Census2000v2.pdf" target="_blank"><em>History: 2000 Census of Population and Housing</em>, Volume 2</a>. Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1966. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/Census2000v2.pdf.
Transcript
U.S. Census of 2000
Population
Brevard County Flagler County Lake County Marion County Orange County Osceola County Seminole County Volusia County
Population Total 476,230 49,832 210,528 258,916 896,344 172,493 365,196 443,343
Males 233,186 23,887 101,866 124,945 443,716 85,022 178,776 215,361
Females 243,044 25,945 108,662 133,971 452,628 87,471 186,420 227,982
Population by Race White Alone 413,411 43,490 184,138 217,909 614,830 133,169 300,948 381,760
Black 40,000 4,401 17,503 29,900 162,899 12,702 34,764 41,198
American Indian and Alaska Native 1,765 133 701 1,158 3,079 790 1,087 1,373
Asian 7,152 583 1,667 1,806 30,033 3,802 9,115 4,430
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 305 12 76 57 843 142 163 164
Other Race 5,168 480 3,966 4,363 53,889 15,631 11,175 8,071
Two or More Races 8,429 733 2,477 3,723 30,771 6,257 7,944 6,347
Population by Descent or Origin Hispanic 21,970 2,537 11,808 15,616 168,361 50,727 40,731 29,111
Mexican 3,281 237 5,638 3,350 19,755 3,400 3,871 7,733
Puerto Rican 9,111 1,031 2,978 6,997 86,583 30,728 19,609 13,546
Cuban 2,161 292 638 1,049 12,371 2,178 3,610 1,570
Dominican 458 37 102 257 6,358 2,313 1,223 452
Central American 1,296 101 372 561 5,703 1,870 1,595 789
Costa Rican 150 5 39 45 600 188 233 122
Guatemalan 323 23 75 122 949 241 165 83
Honduran 210 15 71 87 1,223 266 212 138
Nicaraguan 93 6 34 78 716 315 220 100
Panamanian 392 34 75 152 1,037 251 402 173
Salvadorian 91 11 58 62 883 521 265 134
Other Central American 37 7 20 15 295 88 98 39
South American 1,690 340 559 1,013 15,436 4,254 4,690 1,541
Argentinean 136 26 32 29 794 217 370 132
Bolivian 26 7 2 1 191 34 83 22
Chilean 116 7 24 33 451 130 114 101
Colombian 661 149 235 520 7,676 2,071 2,182 592
Ecuadorian 156 28 60 181 1,687 474 484 210
Paraguayan 15 0 1 1 25 4 8 7
Peruvian 217 54 114 96 1,629 470 648 141
Uruguayan 15 33 8 8 115 42 41 49
Venezuelan 256 21 60 95 2,315 686 587 190
Other South American 92 15 23 49 553 126 173 97
Other Hispanic 3,973 499 1,521 2,389 22,155 5,984 6,133 3,480
Spaniard 262 37 52 50 599 129 218 147
Spanish 784 88 267 333 1,968 415 759 556
Spanish American 90 4 36 69 329 78 104 63
Other Hispanic or Latino 2,837 370 1,166 1,937 19,259 5,362 5,052 2,714
Asian Indian 1,806 69 562 715 8,166 1,230 2,994 1,345
Bangladeshi 15 0 11 0 101 33 33 14
Cambodian 48 13 9 1 141 6 33 19
Chinese, Except Taiwanese 951 82 217 160 4,227 569 1,428 661
Filipino 1,577 292 332 313 5,066 951 1,281 798
Hmong 0 0 2 0 2 0 10 0
Indonesian 32 2 3 4 71 9 30 25
Japanese 531 16 84 129 1,193 92 307 256
Korean 631 37 153 209 1,950 141 1,094 445
Laotian 20 1 11 1 232 25 154 120
Malaysian 9 0 0 1 33 2 10 7
Pakistani 52 1 13 17 732 245 171 76
Sri Lankan 2 0 3 1 56 14 8 28
Taiwanese 72 11 2 13 226 45 65 21
Thai 351 10 47 26 436 85 123 79
Vietnamese 763 24 174 130 6,189 184 1,074 329
Other Asian 23 0 4 1 58 3 9 4
Other Asian, Not Specified 166 10 19 72 577 90 161 130
Households Total 198,195 21,294 88,413 106,755 336,286 60,977 139,572 184,723
Family Households 132,480 15,683 62,468 74,637 220,258 45,077 97,249 120,064
Married Couple Family 104,964 13,378 52,105 59,339 157,937 34,207 75,718 93,161
Other Family 27,516 2,305 10,363 15,298 62,321 10,870 21,531 26,903
Non- Family 65,715 5,611 25,945 32,118 116,028 15,900 42,323 64,659
Population by Marital Status Never Married 78,006 5,869 27,762 37,350 214,910 32,173 71,780 78,186
Married 224,987 28,530 110,140 127,501 355,270 75,570 162,707 205,036
Separated 7,403 553 2,689 4,160 19,485 3,577 5,162 6,690
Widowed 31,880 3,799 17,018 19,631 36,918 7,860 15,876 34,496
Divorced 47,747 3,707 17,129 24,635 79,329 14,725 32,730 45,397
Population in Group Quarters Total 9,695 462 3,767 6,881 18,831 2,400 3,606 14,737
Institutionalized 6,303 428 3,071 5,644 11,987 1,921 2,260 7,391
Correctional Institutions 2,431 55 1,522 3,780 6,307 903 1,216 2,616
Nursing Homes 2,543 342 1,425 1,579 3,684 862 994 3,931
Other Institutions 1,329 31 124 285 1,996 156 50 844
Non-Institutionalized 3,392 34 696 1,237 6,844 479 1,346 7,346
College Dormitories 1,088 0 0 231 3,402 155 12 4,530
Military Quarters 215 0 0 0 0 0 0 5
Other, Non-Institutionalized 2,089 34 696 1,006 3,442 324 1,334 2,811
Not in Group Quarters 466,535 49,370 206,761 252,035 877,513 170,093 361,590 428,606
Population by Military Service Active Armed Forces 2,318 19 129 113 413 76 198 255
Veterans 79,145 9,252 35,534 43,300 84,940 17,226 39,515 66,646
Non-Veterans 290,433 31,631 132,175 160,233 585,412 108,979 233,200 286,986
Veteran Population by War or Conflict Gulf War 6,733 444 1,748 2,324 11,262 1,975 4,764 4,137
Vietnam Era 19,233 1,769 6,720 8,584 23,668 4,829 12,294 15,369
Korean Conflict 10,541 1,739 6,225 7,318 8,673 1,903 4,025 10,017
World War II 15,312 2,797 10,930 12,695 11,921 2,722 5,281 18,058
Multiple Wars 7,086 469 2,240 2,301 4,506 595 2,142 3,455
Other Service 20,240 2,034 7,671 10,078 24,910 5,202 11,009 15,610
Native-Born Population Total 445,229 44,875 199,708 245,564 767,440 148,383 331,911 414,990
Foreign-Born Population Total 31,001 4,957 10,820 13,352 128,904 24,110 33,285 28,353
Naturalized 18,374 3,354 5,084 7,516 53,651 9,514 16,507 14,955
Non-Citizen 12,627 1,603 5,736 5,836 75,253 14,596 16,778 13,398
Foreign-Born Population by Region or Country of Origin Europe 9,881 2,267 2,779 3,458 13,547 3,790 6,769 9,808
Northern Europe 3,374 561 1,091 1,060 4,471 1,560 2,414 2,883
United Kingdom 2,595 413 820 875 3,519 1,388 1,891 2,217
Ireland 317 74 105 79 432 70 214 297
Sweden 172 31 59 26 135 34 115 151
Other Northern Europe 290 43 107 80 385 68 194 218
Western Europe 3,480 585 1,167 1,394 3,827 805 1,735 3,281
Austria 76 21 36 52 112 23 113 164
France 509 17 193 56 754 43 118 293
Germany 2,298 440 867 1,137 2,378 617 1,185 2,407
Netherlands 305 77 20 96 280 71 162 252
Other Western Europe 292 30 51 53 303 51 157 165
Southern Europe 1,616 523 205 477 2,044 457 1,218 1,603
Greece 239 16 21 52 255 25 144 379
Italy 961 230 143 329 1,080 207 706 975
Portugal 132 178 10 41 235 120 108 92
Spain 227 77 31 51 459 89 237 129
Other Southern Europe 57 22 0 4 15 16 23 28
Eastern Europe 1,400 598 316 527 3,195 959 1,402 2,031
Czechoslovakia, Including Czech Republic and Slovakia 128 29 48 48 208 275 129 242
Hungary 166 15 50 144 306 110 217 303
Poland 469 179 101 168 366 169 204 501
Romania 143 15 16 28 252 19 134 101
Belarus 2 0 0 0 16 0 8 18
Russia 166 148 42 10 430 298 116 180
Ukraine 50 187 19 23 259 50 26 147
Bosnia and Herzegovina 0 0 0 0 451 0 214 7
Yugoslavia 62 14 12 41 126 5 128 131
Other Eastern Europe 214 11 28 65 781 33 226 401
Europe, Not Elsewhere Classified 11 0 0 0 10 9 0 10
Asia 6,529 570 1,209 1,704 23,739 3,187 7,205 4,426
Eastern Asia 1,584 36 307 459 5,728 636 1,947 1,224
China 640 16 133 152 2,843 496 852 494
China, Excluding Hong Kong and Taiwan 361 9 75 99 1,635 218 589 267
Hong Kong 57 7 29 19 460 93 64 146
Taiwan 222 0 29 34 748 185 199 81
Japan 410 9 96 133 1,069 52 279 321
Korea 534 11 71 174 1,757 88 801 409
Other Eastern Asia 0 0 7 0 59 0 15 0
South Central Asia 1,558 108 336 501 5,754 1,270 2,060 1,179
Afghanistan 0 0 0 0 1 0 8 31
Bangladesh 12 0 0 8 361 120 15 90
India 1,261 43 273 392 3,298 424 1,268 735
Iran 151 38 39 52 562 25 429 202
Pakistan 126 26 16 18 1,426 574 299 58
Other South Central Asia 8 1 8 31 106 127 41 63
South Eastern Asia 2,426 380 479 581 10,114 1,063 2,339 1,347
Cambodia 54 37 0 9 146 12 13 13
Indonesia 129 19 18 83 88 13 57 57
Laos 0 0 52 5 77 102 194 37
Malaysia 52 6 13 24 140 16 29 58
Philippines 1,177 225 246 200 3,418 647 1,060 783
Thailand 398 18 28 30 452 63 151 128
Vietnam 616 75 121 195 5,730 203 814 271
Other South Eastern Asia 0 0 1 35 63 7 21 0
Western Asia 924 46 78 145 1,774 165 816 610
Iraq 39 0 0 0 61 0 58 12
Israel 29 0 31 12 238 49 163 64
Jordan 33 0 5 27 165 50 77 120
Lebanon 266 0 26 70 437 13 254 85
Syria 24 0 0 5 222 20 104 25
Turkey 122 46 16 7 170 6 87 109
Armenia 6 0 0 7 0 0 0 9
Other Western Asia 405 0 0 17 481 27 73 186
Asia, Not Elsewhere Classified 37 0 9 18 369 53 43 66
Africa 1,088 58 253 251 3,710 804 1,344 828
Eastern Africa 161 8 18 93 820 45 479 183
Ethiopia 14 8 0 11 123 0 0 20
Other Eastern Africa 147 0 18 82 697 45 479 163
Middle Africa 20 0 0 0 98 0 0 36
Northern Africa 474 50 122 9 1,338 519 409 353
Egypt 263 31 80 9 358 42 304 195
Other Northern Africa 211 19 42 0 980 477 105 158
Southern Africa 228 0 15 43 549 30 204 103
South Africa 200 0 15 43 549 30 204 103
Other Southern Africa 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Western Africa 163 0 28 91 561 185 225 108
Ghana 16 0 9 0 69 8 94 15
Nigeria 121 0 19 91 308 6 81 48
Sierra Leone 0 0 0 0 19 0 0 0
Other Western Africa 26 0 0 0 165 171 50 45
Africa, Not Elsewhere Classified 42 0 70 15 344 25 27 45
Oceania 140 78 36 95 313 38 129 138
Australia and New Zealand Subregion 104 78 36 73 188 23 108 124
Australia 78 21 36 64 142 13 70 109
Other Australian and New Zealand Subregion 26 57 0 9 46 10 38 15
Melanesia 0 0 0 16 17 15 0 0
Micronesia 16 0 0 6 59 0 0 14
Polynesia 20 0 0 0 49 0 15 0
Oceania, Not Elsewhere Classified 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0
Americas 13,363 1,984 6,543 7,827 87,595 16,291 17,838 13,153
Latin America 10,644 1,762 5,479 6,469 83,648 15,648 15,711 10,093
Caribbean 5,495 974 1,322 2,559 41,956 6,227 6,632 3,287
Barbados 153 33 19 62 589 141 88 28
Cuba 970 159 424 554 8,809 1,251 2,094 875
Dominican Republic 331 58 128 210 5,153 2,080 931 446
Haiti 213 33 167 143 13,227 569 718 268
Jamaica 2,414 437 375 1,198 8,756 1,248 1,684 790
Trinidad and Tobago 693 180 119 222 2,663 457 586 493
Other Caribbean 721 74 90 170 2,759 481 531 387
Central America 2,553 203 3,396 2,172 16,926 3,549 3,387 4,556
Mexico 1,028 34 2,846 1,597 11,100 1,626 1,364 3,663
Other Central America 1,525 169 550 575 5,826 1,923 2,023 893
Costa Rica 206 0 0 35 506 133 340 172
El Salvador 180 11 91 66 826 572 404 161
Guatemala 355 16 162 112 1,114 172 280 106
Honduras 236 18 116 151 1,457 290 336 141
Nicaragua 94 8 32 70 708 414 155 87
Panama 454 95 137 133 1,066 310 385 199
Other Central America 0 21 12 8 149 32 123 27
South America 2,596 585 761 1,738 24,766 5,872 5,692 2,250
Argentina 255 57 18 0 853 177 417 159
Bolivia 3 0 0 0 442 7 30 7
Brazil 352 25 39 98 4,765 835 435 307
Chile 144 40 30 13 562 184 178 93
Colombia 744 193 211 819 8,550 2,156 2,306 761
Ecuador 121 30 99 270 1,885 607 403 209
Guyana 397 102 113 282 2,741 291 538 185
Peru 226 20 102 142 1,707 574 725 163
Venezuela 299 20 119 80 2,826 878 518 259
Other South America 55 98 30 34 435 163 142 107
Northern America 2,719 222 1,064 1,358 3,947 643 2,127 3,060
Canada 2,682 220 1,055 1,338 3,900 643 2,085 3,030
Other Northern America 37 2 9 20 47 0 42 30
Born at Sea 0 0 0 17 0 0 0 0
Housing Units Total 222,072 24,452 102,830 122,663 361,349 72,293 147,079 211,938
Occupied 198,195 21,294 88,413 106,755 336,286 60,977 139,572 184,723
Vacant 23,877 3,158 14,417 15,908 25,063 11,316 7,507 27,215
For Rent 5,970 358 2,158 2,341 10,116 2,429 2,819 4,039
For Sale 3,477 370 1,886 2,331 3,619 958 1,319 2,864
Households by Energy Usage for Heat Gas (Utility, Bottled, Tank, or LP Gas) 30,291 645 15,796 19,235 26,907 5,163 12,114 16,924
Electricity 163,791 20,322 70,732 83,373 299,899 54,547 124,260 159,179
Fuel Oil, Kerosene, Etc. 2,073 169 882 2,380 6,047 365 2,233 6,144
Coal, Coke, and Wood 336 36 387 843 506 101 203 660
Solar Energy 39 0 3 0 43 24 57 79
Other Fuel 105 33 130 112 243 33 50 256
No Fuel 1,560 89 483 812 2,641 744 655 1,481
Population by Work Transportation Method Car, Truck, or Van 192,896 17,168 76,050 90,409 404,604 73,183 174,772 171,448
Public Transportation 591 130 348 217 10,923 825 1,227 1,914
Motorcycles 765 76 217 159 853 281 534 981
Bicycles 1,278 78 248 313 2,038 386 660 1,033
Walking 2,653 221 1,129 1,369 6,085 1,054 1,898 3,531
Other Means 1,390 151 838 818 3,642 624 1,317 1,582
Working from Home 5,506 625 2,633 3,019 11,178 1,510 7,186 5,426
Education
Brevard County Flagler County Lake County Marion County Orange County Osceola County Seminole County Volusia County
Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 46,416 5,453 31,482 40,813 104,591 23,095 27,523 56,982
High School Completed 98,108 12,330 53,339 67,271 148,006 37,536 59,280 102,353
Some College Completed 115,194 12,642 44,940 53,477 171,495 32,560 80,922 101,929
Bachelor's Degree 51,616 5,170 17,509 16,126 104,818 12,052 51,235 36,646
Master's Degree 20,995 2,023 5,458 5,966 29,990 3,610 16,882 12,536
Professional School 4,889 722 2,056 2,638 10,945 1,393 5,472 4,785
Doctorate Degree 2,520 276 788 896 4,256 361 1,902 1,994
Male Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 21,055 2,682 15,185 20,255 50,528 11,453 12,856 27,650
High School Completed 42,196 5,366 23,137 29,860 67,485 17,246 25,644 46,259
Some College Completed 53,613 5,775 21,256 24,683 81,995 15,676 36,647 46,461
Bachelor's Degree 28,222 2,753 9,236 7,952 53,117 6,076 27,227 18,609
Master's Degree 12,251 997 2,942 2,950 15,844 1,661 8,764 6,326
Professional School 3,216 459 1,254 1,626 6,803 725 3,674 3,072
Doctorate Degree 1,751 189 579 674 2,822 204 1,369 1,385
Female Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 25,361 2,771 16,297 20,558 54,063 11,642 14,667 29,332
High School Completed 55,912 6,964 30,202 37,411 80,521 20,290 33,636 56,094
Some College Completed 61,581 6,867 23,684 28,794 89,500 16,884 44,275 55,468
Bachelor's Degree 23,394 2,417 8,273 8,174 51,701 5,976 24,008 18,037
Master's Degree 8,744 1,026 2,516 3,016 14,146 1,949 8,118 6,210
Professional School 1,673 263 802 1,012 4,142 668 1,798 1,713
Doctorate Degree 769 87 209 222 1,434 157 533 609
White Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 37,567 4,500 25,766 33,247 60,146 17,355 19,218 47,006
High School Completed 265,645 29,645 115,146 130,473 358,068 71,834 186,568 236,703
Some College Completed 177,263 18,296 66,168 70,187 250,401 40,341 136,300 143,048
Bachelor's Degree 73,746 7,262 24,294 22,835 121,362 14,077 66,382 50,651
Graduate or Professional School 26,151 2,599 7,793 8,503 36,549 4,353 20,807 17,596
Black Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 6,222 612 3,791 5,330 27,290 1,928 5,406 6,694
High School Completed 15,871 2,365 5,630 11,463 61,429 5,240 14,425 15,128
Some College Completed 9,416 1,661 2,351 6,135 36,623 2,845 9,327 9,047
Bachelor's Degree 2,667 564 692 1,768 13,058 828 3,660 3,207
Graduate or Professional School 747 259 267 638 3,681 272 1,397 1,049
American Indian and Alaska Native Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 314 12 154 201 461 109 164 191
High School Completed 1,160 87 317 612 1,503 193 842 871
Some College Completed 725 80 145 456 853 106 612 624
Bachelor's Degree 152 26 8 134 284 19 268 180
Graduate or Professional School 38 26 0 31 116 0 99 73
Asian Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 904 61 202 336 3,867 394 638 532
High School Completed 4,249 345 798 1,149 15,500 2,031 5,225 2,711
Some College Completed 3,235 267 649 808 12,144 1,610 4,258 2,044
Bachelor's Degree 1,946 151 338 513 7,945 997 2,838 1,190
Graduate or Professional School 947 58 80 190 2,684 256 1,189 408
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 24 0 9 10 84 34 0 23
High School Completed 134 0 0 28 327 46 101 57
Some College Completed 81 0 0 28 230 31 40 42
Bachelor's Degree 21 0 0 19 76 5 0 0
Graduate or Professional School 12 0 0 14 25 0 0 0
Some Other Race Population by School Completion Completing Less Than High School 500 143 1,091 1,177 8,193 2,388 1,318 1,630
High School Completed 2,225 258 978 1,147 19,255 5,492 4,552 2,055
Some College Completed 1,666 166 635 646 12,161 3,369 3,005 1,321
Bachelor's Degree 478 70 249 97 3,700 894 1,082 330
Graduate or Professional School 164 19 64 27 985 310 279 88
Hispanic or Latino Population by School Completion Aged 25+ 12,809 1,767 6,248 8,790 95,505 28,364 24,165 16,659
Completing Less Than High School 2,540 461 2,705 3,460 27,742 8,247 5,071 6,202
High School Completed 10,269 1,306 3,543 5,330 67,763 20,117 19,094 10,457
Some College Completed 7,396 741 2,326 3,228 44,475 11,928 13,519 6,860
Bachelor's Degree 2,935 302 907 831 16,194 3,552 5,625 1,954
Graduate or Professional School 972 163 277 374 5,099 939 1,915 658
Population by School Enrollment Enrolled 112,005 9,366 40,624 54,173 248,040 44,944 99,337 101,190
Not Enrolled 349,620 39,284 163,384 197,003 611,968 120,923 252,611 329,318
Public School 91,848 8,149 34,908 46,347 204,974 38,926 80,854 79,381
Public Pre-School 3,521 324 1,400 1,882 7,437 1,321 2,503 2,905
Public K-8 49,627 4,380 19,813 26,299 102,097 22,395 42,047 42,065
Public High School 21,896 2,024 9,201 11,584 45,485 10,211 18,665 19,215
Public College 16,804 1,421 4,494 6,582 49,955 4,999 17,639 15,196
Private School 20,157 1,217 5,716 7,826 43,066 6,018 18,483 21,809
Private Pre-School 3,885 376 1,353 1,592 9,371 1,284 4,830 3,730
Private K-8 7,203 360 2,720 3,620 15,393 2,146 7,126 5,258
Private High School 1,996 118 633 1,118 4,102 495 2,071 1,655
Private College 7,073 363 1,010 1,496 14,200 2,093 4,456 11,166
Labor
Brevard County Flagler County Lake County Marion County Orange County Osceola County Seminole County Volusia County
Population in Labor Force Total 220,413 19,670 86,307 104,422 471,974 84,142 198,464 201,913
Armed Forces 2,318 19 129 113 413 76 198 255
Civilian Labor Force 218,095 19,651 86,178 104,309 471,561 84,066 198,266 201,658
Employed 207,366 18,815 82,819 98,248 447,861 79,859 190,973 189,035
Unemployed 10,729 836 3,359 6,061 23,700 4,207 7,293 12,623
Not in Labor Force 163,663 22,200 85,967 105,310 221,452 47,135 84,636 162,621
Male Population in Labor Force Total 119,342 10,349 46,312 54,645 251,471 44,428 106,283 107,321
Armed Forces 2,048 10 109 109 375 58 178 206
Civilian Labor Force 117,294 10,339 46,203 54,536 251,096 44,370 106,105 107,115
Employed 111,595 9,889 44,453 51,569 239,431 42,204 102,411 100,145
Unemployed 5,699 450 1,750 2,967 11,665 2,166 3,694 6,970
Not in Labor Force 66,680 9,544 36,010 44,657 87,278 19,206 30,039 67,395
Female Population in Labor Force Total 101,071 9,321 39,995 49,777 220,503 39,714 92,181 94,592
Armed Forces 270 9 20 4 38 18 20 49
Civilian Labor Force 100,801 9,312 39,975 49,773 220,465 39,696 92,161 94,543
Employed 95,771 8,926 38,366 46,679 208,430 37,655 88,562 88,890
Unemployed 5,030 386 1,609 3,094 12,035 2,041 3,599 5,653
Not in Labor Force 96,983 12,656 49,957 60,653 134,174 27,929 54,597 95,226
Employment and Unemployment by Race White Employed 182,829 16,701 72,821 84,361 324,773 63,838 161,737 164,827
White Unemployed 8,644 722 2,596 4,543 13,878 3,045 5,384 9,831
Black or African American Employed 14,154 1,364 5,894 9,629 67,034 5,376 14,393 15,240
Black or African American Unemployed 1,445 92 520 1,155 5,956 454 1,089 2,144
American Indian and Alaska Native Employed 1,044 60 356 496 1,478 222 826 765
American Indian and Alaska Native Unemployed 81 0 29 62 119 30 46 77
Asian Employed 3,329 220 728 962 14,961 1,702 4,757 2,131
Asian Unemployed 205 14 25 16 675 107 169 88
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Employed 142 0 12 14 355 63 68 97
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Unemployed 9 0 0 0 22 0 0 8
Some Other Race Employed 2,289 267 1,901 1,694 24,246 5,983 5,163 3,364
Some Other Race Unemployed 152 6 126 171 1,939 465 289 228
Hispanic or Latino Employed 9,415 873 5,232 5,816 73,233 20,739 19,335 11,101
Hispanic or Latino Unemployed 622 29 334 590 5,428 1,477 1,123 1,797
Employment by Industry Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting, and Mining 1,042 241 2,311 3,432 2,369 482 621 2,075
Agriculture, Forestry, and Fishing and Hunting 887 223 2,132 3,266 2,257 434 584 2,058
Mining 155 18 179 166 112 48 37 17
Construction 16,424 1,873 8,556 8,803 33,618 7,030 15,439 16,827
Manufacturing 28,223 1,875 5,264 10,416 28,548 4,325 15,131 16,297
Wholesale Trade 5,177 439 3,399 3,117 17,584 2,559 8,255 5,606
Retail Trade 27,766 3,046 11,145 15,499 54,069 10,596 26,089 26,243
Transportation, Warehousing, and Utilities 8,434 813 4,043 4,789 24,799 4,689 8,412 8,310
Transportation and Warehousing 7,176 611 3,229 3,714 21,872 4,084 7,030 6,655
Utilities 1,258 202 814 1,075 2,927 605 1,382 1,655
Information 6,541 412 2,347 1,892 17,174 1,229 8,357 5,339
Finance, Insurance, Real Estate, and Rental and Leasing 10,828 1,151 4,901 5,100 34,668 4,409 18,231 11,886
Finance and Insurance 5,875 579 2,982 2,896 20,344 1,720 12,994 6,701
Real Estate and Rental and Leasing 4,953 572 1,919 2,204 14,324 2,689 5,237 5,185
Professional, Scientific, Management, Administrative, and Waste Management Services 21,876 1,633 6,716 7,712 51,511 5,497 25,213 17,342
Professional, Scientific, and Technical Services 13,377 823 2,754 3,488 29,078 2,113 16,195 8,448
Management of Companies and Enterprise 57 0 5 24 210 7 80 18
Administrative, Support, and Waste Management Services 8,442 810 3,957 4,200 22,223 3,377 8,938 8,876
Educational, Health, and Social Services 36,027 3,497 14,135 19,167 64,356 9,802 32,953 37,004
Educational Services 13,513 1,634 5,099 7,275 27,559 4,522 14,673 15,296
Health Care and Social Assistance 22,514 1,863 9,036 11,892 36,797 5,280 18,280 21,708
Arts, Entertainment, Recreation, Accommodation, and Food Services 20,476 2,124 11,273 8,440 82,026 23,687 16,862 22,680
Arts, Entertainment, and Recreation 4,542 466 5,154 1,940 31,553 8,907 4,969 4,891
Accommodation and Food Services 15,934 1,658 6,119 6,500 50,473 14,780 11,893 17,789
Other Services, Except Public Administration 9,517 836 4,416 5,305 21,953 3,088 8,218 10,088
Public Administration 15,035 875 4,313 4,576 15,186 2,466 7,192 9,338
Employment by Occupation Management, Business, and Financial Operations Employees 25,257 2,385 10,256 10,089 63,728 8,262 31,322 21,985
Professional and Related Employees 47,217 3,121 13,456 15,821 81,543 10,119 42,507 32,511
Health Care Support Employees 4,085 407 1,996 2,333 5,904 1,160 2,658 4,085
Protective Service Employees 4,921 494 2,225 2,313 8,794 1,852 3,507 4,497
Food Preparation and Serving Related Employees 11,930 1,272 4,274 5,089 30,987 7,844 8,461 12,263
Building, Grounds Cleaning, and Maintenance Employees 7,971 914 4,061 3,995 18,641 5,343 5,128 8,353
Personal Care and Service Employees 5,303 501 2,649 3,458 15,855 2,814 4,895 4,980
Sales and Related Employees 25,845 2,447 10,301 13,270 58,829 10,614 29,534 24,853
Office and Administrative Support Employees 29,940 2,962 12,118 14,457 74,240 12,573 30,850 29,414
Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Employees 642 65 1,540 1,297 1,808 239 314 1,562
Construction, Extraction, and Maintenance Employees 21,793 2,175 10,229 11,851 40,021 9,616 16,353 22,216
Production Employees 12,388 1,242 3,985 7,344 20,704 3,753 7,463 11,721
Transportation and Material Moving Employees 10,074 830 5,729 6,931 26,807 5,670 7,981 10,595
Male Employment by Occupation Management, Business, and Financial Operations Employees 14,925 1,448 6,088 5,838 35,997 4,460 18,881 12,645
Professional and Related Employees 24,396 1,279 5,224 5,957 38,302 4,211 20,386 13,322
Health Care Support Employees 456 51 192 297 843 109 284 453
Protective Service Employees 3,998 414 1,895 1,818 6,603 1,454 2,818 3,558
Food Preparation and Serving Related Employees 4,759 516 1,686 1,611 16,146 3,765 4,144 5,303
Building, Grounds Cleaning, and Maintenance Employees 4,818 633 2,734 2,432 10,339 2,741 3,417 5,346
Personal Care and Service Employees 1,197 147 738 1,088 5,860 975 1,418 1,306
Sales and Related Employees 11,874 1,099 5,047 6,147 29,017 4,668 16,138 11,841
Office and Administrative Support Employees 7,137 672 2,652 3,079 20,733 3,287 7,376 7,067
Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Employees 544 38 999 1,012 1,083 160 212 1,017
Construction, Extraction, and Maintenance Employees 20,941 2,043 9,759 11,359 38,404 9,055 15,590 21,334
Production Employees 7,991 878 2,776 5,006 13,455 2,513 4,841 7,752
Transportation and Material Moving Employees 8,559 671 4,663 5,925 22,649 4,806 6,906 9,201
Female Employment by Occupation Management, Business, and Financial Operations Employees 10,332 937 4,168 4,251 27,731 3,802 12,441 9,340
Professional and Related Employees 22,821 1,842 8,232 9,864 43,241 5,908 22,121 19,189
Health Care Support Employees 3,629 356 1,804 2,036 5,061 1,051 2,374 3,632
Protective Service Employees 923 80 330 495 2,191 398 689 939
Food Preparation and Serving Related Employees 7,171 756 2,588 3,478 14,841 4,079 4,317 6,960
Building, Grounds Cleaning, and Maintenance Employees 3,153 281 1,327 1,563 8,302 2,602 1,711 3,007
Personal Care and Service Employees 4,106 354 1,911 2,370 9,995 1,839 3,477 3,674
Sales and Related Employees 13,971 1,348 5,254 7,123 29,812 5,946 13,396 13,012
Office and Administrative Support Employees 22,803 2,290 9,466 11,378 53,507 9,286 23,474 22,347
Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Employees 98 27 541 285 725 79 102 545
Construction, Extraction, and Maintenance Employees 852 132 470 492 1,617 561 763 882
Production Employees 4,397 364 1,209 2,338 7,249 1,240 2,622 3,969
Transportation and Material Moving Employees 1,515 159 1,066 1,006 4,158 864 1,075 1,394
Employment by Sector Private Sector Employees 140,975 12,217 57,209 67,011 336,958 62,521 135,938 127,632
Public Sector Employees 31,971 2,806 10,183 13,194 47,342 7,878 21,726 25,132
Self-Employed Employees 21,305 2,634 10,119 12,153 37,746 6,330 21,673 22,679
Non-Profit Employees 12,549 1,098 4,964 5,510 24,923 2,983 11,169 13,052
Unpaid Family Workers 566 60 344 380 892 147 467 540
Male Employment by Sector Private Sector Employees 77,045 6,502 31,252 36,394 184,769 33,504 74,886 68,711
Public Sector Employees 16,669 1,214 4,841 5,436 20,573 3,474 9,221 11,784
Self-Employed Employees 13,933 1,867 6,565 7,979 25,601 4,277 14,931 14,977
Non-Profit Employees 3,748 277 1,621 1,605 8,051 898 3,160 4,432
Unpaid Family Workers 200 29 174 155 437 51 213 241
Female Employment by Sector Private Sector Employees 63,930 5,715 25,957 30,617 152,189 29,017 61,052 58,921
Public Sector Employees 15,302 1,592 5,342 7,758 26,769 4,404 12,505 13,348
Self-Employed Employees 7,372 767 3,554 4,174 12,145 2,053 6,742 7,702
Non-Profit Employees 8,801 821 3,343 3,905 16,872 2,085 8,009 8,620
Unpaid Family Workers 366 31 170 225 455 96 254 299
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