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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/80b4c2cfe328ed23a797b0b8c7d69036.pdf
78ef0ef46396b4098d30b78b2a0b8c68
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
War in Afghanistan Collection
Alternative Title
Afghanistan Collection
Description
Operation Enduring Freedom is the official name for the "military conflict" commonly known as the "War in Afghanistan," which is a group of military actions within the Global War on Terror (GWOT). The operation in Afghanistan is an ongoing conflict between Afghanistan, the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, France, Canada, Poland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, and the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) against two Islamic fundamentalist groups in Afghanistan: the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
The Taliban came to power in Afghanistan in 1996, the same year that international terrorist and Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden immigrated to the country with the invitation of the Northern Alliance. Following the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the United States presented the Taliban with a five-point ultimatum to the Taliban government, which was suspected of providing asylum to Al-Qaeda terrorists. After the Taliban rejected the ultimatum and the U.S. rejected Taliban proposals to try suspected terrorists under Islamic Shari'a law, the United States and the United Kingdom initiated military action on October 7, 2001. Although the U.S.-led coalition removed the Taliban from power initially and severely damaged Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, the operation has overall had little success in defeating the Taliban insurgency. Operation Enduring Freedom has been transformed into a full war and has thus far lasted significantly longer than expected.
Contributor
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Contributing Project
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Subject
Operation Enduring Freedom, 2001-
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Veterans--Florida
Coverage
Afghanistan
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a><span>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida</span>
External Reference
<span>"</span><a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a><span>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.</span>
Center of Military History. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/55079497" target="_blank"><em>Operation Enduring Freedom: October 2001-March 2002</em></a>. Washington, D.C.: [U.S. Army Center of Military History], 2004.
Neumann, Brian F., Lisa M. Mundey, and Jon Mikolashek. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/856994805" target="_blank"><em>Operation Enduring Freedom</em></a>. 2013.
Tripp, Robert S., Kristin F. Lynch, John G. Drew, and Edward Wei-Min Chan. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/427704785" target="_blank"><em>Lessons from Operation Enduring Freedom</em></a>. Santa Monica, CA: RAND, 2004.
Wright, Donald P. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/316737060" target="_blank"><em>A Different Kind of War: The United States Army in Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), October 2001-September 2005</em></a>. Fort Leavenworth, KS: Combat Studies Institute Press, US Army Combined Arms Center, 2010.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Williams, Rachel
Interviewee
Dull, Joshua R.
Bit Rate/Frequency
64kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Joshua "Josh" R. Dull
Alternative Title
Oral History, Dull
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Air Force
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Afghan War, 2001-
Post-traumatic stress disorder--United States
Mental health--Florida
Description
An oral history of Joshua R. Dull, a Creative Writing student at the University of Central Florida (UCF) in Orlando, Florida. Dull served in the U.S. Air Force (USAF) during the Global War of Terror (2001-2009) and completed his service as a Senior Airman. Dull discusses his family's military background, his experience in basic training, tech school, the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, deployments in Qatar at Al Udeid Air Base and in Afghanistan, operating cryogenics, leisure time in a war zone, maintaining a romantic relationship while deployed, struggles in life after service, and working at the UCF Veterans Academic Resource Center (VARC) and helping veteran students.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction
0:00:26 Early childhood
0:03:45 Basic training
0:06:15 Tech school
0:07:09 Active duty/Davis-Monthan Air Force Base
0:07:47 First deployment - Qatar - Al Udeid Air Base
0:09:20 First impression of Qatar
0:10:07 Locals in Qatar
0:12:09 Memorable day in Qatar/leaving
0:13:45 Second deployment ─ Afghanistan
0:15:42 First impression of Afghanistan
0:17:04 Operating cryogenics elements
0:17:30 Memorable day in Afghanistan/movie night
0:19:11 9/11 in Afghanistan
0:20:52 Rocket attack response
0:22:32 Funny story – sabotaging supervisor
0:24:40 Feelings leaving Afghanistan
0:25:58 Being in relationship while in Afghanistan
0:27:49 Life after service
0:29:45 Awards/medals earned for service
0:31:18 Today's activities
0:32:11 Working at the UCF VARC and helping veteran students
0:32:42 How service has affected life
Abstract
Oral history of Joshua R. Dull. Interview conducted by Rachel Williams at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/278/" target="_blank">Dull, Joshua R.</a> Interviewed by Rachel Williams. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/96" target="_blank">War in Afghanistan Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 34-minute and 2-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/278/" target="_blank">Dull, Joshua R.</a> Interviewed by Rachel Williams. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Coverage
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tucson, Arizona
Al Udeid Air Base, Doha, Qatar
Bagram Airfield, Bagram, Parwan, Afghanistan
Creator
Williams, Rachel
Dull, Joshua R.
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
video/WMA
application/pdf
Extent
0.98 GB
190 KB
Medium
34-minute and 2-second DVD/MP4 audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Rachel Williams and Joshua Dull and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Belasco, Amy. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/73526824" target="_blank"><em>The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11</em></a>. [Washington, D.C.]: Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress, 2006.
Baker, K. J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795120466" target="_blank"><em>War in Afghanistan A Short History of Eighty Wars and Conflicts in Afghanistan and the North-West Frontier 1839-2011</em></a>. Dural Delivery Centre NSW: Rosenberg Publishing, 2011.
Collins, Joseph J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/720899564" target="_blank"><em>Understanding War in Afghanistan</em></a>. Washington, DC: National Defense University Press, 2011.
Finley, Finley, Erin P. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/732959290" target="_blank"><em>Fields of Combat Understanding PTSD Among Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan</em></a>. Ithaca: ILR Press, 2011.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/278/" target="_blank">Dull, Joshua R.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. [Joshua] "Josh" [R.] Dull, who served in the United States Air Force. He served during the [Global] War on Terror and completed his service as a senior airman. My name is Rachel Williams and I am interviewing Mr. Dull as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview at UCF in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p>Alright. So to start, I’m just going to ask you some basic questions about your early childhood. So can you tell me where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Melbourne, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And what was your child like—childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Childhood?</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>It’s a very broad question. Um, lower middle class suburban. My dad was actually in the Air Force. I was what prompted him to join the Air Force. So my earliest memories are actually in Alaska. That’s where my youngest sister was born, Heather [Dull], and—yeah. We were stationed at Elmendorf [Air Force Base], at the time. Shortly after that, we moved to Washington. We had two houses there, but we lived in the Tacoma[, Washington] area. I think that could be McChord [Field], but I could be mistaken.</p>
<p>So my dad got out the Air Force and, um—that year. About 1992-’93, we moved back to Florida, so we could be around our grandparents, because our whole family is from the Brevard County area. So, um, yeah. My parents basically stayed broke trying to give us a good—at least, middle class—upbringing. We had a strong support group with our aunts, uncles, grandparents, especially—few of our cousins. So we moved from there to Wyoming when I was in eighth grade—when I was 13. So that was kind of rough, ‘cause we left that whole support group around. Love my parents and they were good people, but they’re kind of hard-lined disciplinarians and kept us pretty sheltered too. At least me anyway, ‘cause I was the oldest. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>Alright. So you said your dad was in the Air Force. What did your mother do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Good question. She kind of bounced around from job to job while we were in Florida. She kind of—her and my dad met at the airport in Melbourne.<a title="">[1]</a> That’s where they—yeah. They were working there at the time and got married from there, but—I don’t know if she worked while my dad was in the Air Force. and then I just remember her having an array of jobs when I was a kid. I think the last one was a—she was a secretary at a[sic] optometrist or an optometry clinic. So she’s working now for Empower Wyoming, which helps teach women self-defense skills, and I believe she has a—yeah. she does something with substance abuse prevention in Wyoming, so yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So your dad served in the Air Force. Did any other family members serve?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>My granddad was in the Navy, on my mom’s side. He was—he served during World War II. I had a couple cousins who were—or great cousins, I guess—who were—I’m not sure—Army or Marines or whatever. They served during Vietnam [War]. Great-grandfather served in World War I. I mean, I currently have one cousin who’s in the Marines. another who’s honorably discharged from the Marines.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So how much education did you have before going into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>High school and like one semester of college.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>How long were you in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Five years.</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>And when did you start basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I began basic training on May 20<sup>th</sup> of 2008.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And what did you think of basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Sucked.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Why do you say that?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, let’s see. We were herded onto a bus at about 3 in the morning, and as soon as we stepped off, people are yelling and screaming and cussing at you. Well, actually not necessarily cussing. That wasn’t allowed by this time. back in the day it was. They cuss at you in private, but whatever. But yeah.</p>
<p>You know, basic training—it’s not designed to be fun. It’s not designed to be easy. Yeah. my first memories were doing my best to not get yelled at. Kind of following in the group think almost. And I remember we’re standing in our bay outside our beds and there’s this guy named Master Sargent Romero just screaming at us. And he kinda looked like Danny Trejo from <em>Once Upon a Time in Mexico</em>. Scary guy, you know? [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Alright. Describe a typical day during basic training.</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>During basic training? Well, at 4:45 in the morning, <em>Reveille</em> plays. Sleep is fleeing from your eyes as your TI [Training Instructor] and others are screaming at you. “Get up! Get up! You make me sick! Get your ass outta bed!” Whatever. You line up in the hallways and wait for the element leaders or whoever to lead us down—down to the pad, which is outside the squadrons. All the squadrons or all the flights in the squadrons had to sound off—the TIs leading them. You start the day with PT—physical training. So running, push-ups. All the while, people are yelling at you. It got better throughout the course of basic training, but at the beginning, definitely not.</p>
<p>Then you had chow. That lasted about five minutes, if you were lucky. You learned to basically just put all your breakfast items between two thick pieces of French toast and that was your breakfast, ‘cause that’s the only way you could eat everything. Then you had to fall out. Then it was just a lot of marching and folding laundry and cleaning up the bay and doing military in-processing stuff. Regular appointments. And also prepping for the graduation ceremony.</p>
<p>So nighttime, the TI would have a—at about 5 o’clock, TI would wind down with us. He’d tell us what went on that day, what we need to accomplish the next day. He gradually got nicer as the course of basic training went on. That was also when you got your letters and stuff, so yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Did you have any special training?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Special training? Like, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Anything other than basic training to get you ready for some special…</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Yeah. Everybody goes to—in the Air Force—well, in the Army, it’s called “A-School,” but in the Air Force it’s called “Tech School.” That’s immediately following basic training. My original job was supposed to be Explosive Ordinance Disposal. So that’s what I began doing. Learning about various explosive devices, bombs, missiles, other projectiles; how to disarm them; which is mainly blow them up in place. We actually got to do that. That was pretty cool. One of the highlights of my service. But unfortunately, I didn’t make it through EOD training. Well, actually I say “fortunately” now in retrospect, but yeah.</p>
<p>So after that, I went to fuels tech school in Wichita Falls, Texas. And that was completed in six weeks, and then I was ready for active duty.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So, where did you go once you were ready for active duty?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>My first and only duty station was Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And what did you do there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I refueled planes and also worked with the lab out there—the fuels lab. And operated the hydro system as well.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And how long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, that was my entire enlistment. However, I deployed out of there twice, so, give or take two deployments, five years. Well, actually, that’s a lie, ‘cause I forgot training and all that. I got there February 2009. So from February 2009 to end of May 2013.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So you said you had two deployments. Where was your first deployment to?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>To [Doha, ]Qatar. Al Udeid Air Base.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And how long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Six months, give or take a few days.</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>And what did you do there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I refueled planes. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So describe a typical day when you were deployed there.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>In Qatar?</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Qatar was an awesome deployment, in retrospect. Well, a typical day was—at least before the Iraq War ended, ‘cause I was there right when that occurred, I think. It was very busy. You’d get there at work at about—well, you rode a bus to work at about—I—6:30 in the morning. Got there at 7. you’d have a morning briefing. Then you’d just take your backpack, you’d load it up—load it up with water, Gatorade—we used these energy drinks called “Rip Its.” If you can find them over here, you, like, stock up on them, because that’s what you had when you were deployed. But yeah, we had like this big stash of just free food that had been donated throughout. You just—that was basically it. You went to truck and you saw the—the shop again for lunch and the—again, when somebody was relieving you for the next shift to come on. After the Iraq—after the actions in Iraq started winding down, though the work load started to decrease, so you actually got to hang out in the building a little more throughout the day. So that was both good and bad. Got a lot of reading done.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So what was your first impression when you got to Qatar?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Mmm. Kind of a culture shock really, ‘cause, to be honest, I had never left the country before that so. And, I guess, the reality of actually being in a deployed zone, like, never in my—at that time, I think, 22-23 years of life—did I ever actually think I would be in that place. and—I don’t know—it was kind of scary at first, ‘cause I’m removed from everything. I don’t have as much freedom, just because—it’s not a distinctly oppressive environment. it’s just long shifts and you’re away from everything. Don’t have a car. Stuff like that. And I got so used to my little world over here that—so it was a bit of an adjustment.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Did you encounter any locals there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>What did you think of them?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, Qatar was—that was a very awesome experience, I thought. Very—very eye-opening, in a sense, too. We were actually—because it’s a non-hostile country, we were actually allowed to occasionally go downtown with commander’s approval. I got to do that about three times. I could have done it more, but I worked night shift and that basically meant going off base—meant being awake 24 hours straight [<em>laughs</em>]. But I met, um—I didn’t meet a lot of the actual Qatari nationals, ‘cause they’re considered royalty over there. You see them, but it’s not like you actually stop and converse with them. The few I did, they were seemingly pleasant. Um, there were a lot of Sri Lankan-Nepalese people there that—they worked most the areas and, you know, shops and whatnot.</p>
<p>I had my first experience with bargaining. It was an Indian man named Hakthor. I’ll never forget the guy, ‘cause I remember he’s got this jewelry shop. And I just remember I was looking for presents to send home and he tells me a price and I’m like, “No. I’m not paying that.” He’s like—so he sits here, like trying to justify. He’s like yelling, so I’m yelling back at him like, “No. No way. There’s no way I’m paying for that.” I’m finally walking out the door, I say—he’s like, “Come on. Just tell me a price.” I’m like, “Fine. I’ll give you about 400 riyal for that and that’s it. I’m leaving.” He’s like, “You know how much I sell these for? 800 riyal. I’ll do it for you, but nobody else.” So after I buy it, suddenly he’s my best friend. He’s like, “Thank you so much,” and starts giving me all this free stuff, asking me if I want tea. Pours me up some tea, asks me if I want it with milk, and we just sat there and talked. I still remember where his shop is, so if I’m ever in the souqs in Doha, Qatar, I know all I got to do is walk down this little alleyway and turn right and I can find Hakthor’s shop. So yep.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So tell me about your most memorable day there.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>My most memorable day in Qatar?</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Leaving [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, I don’t know, ‘cause most of the days were just so similar. Even the days off—like, I had my own routine. Um—crap. Most memorable day—yeah…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Well, why don’t you tell me about leaving—that day.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Okay. Well, it was a very elating experience, because you spent six months just daydreaming about all the stuff you were going to do once you got back. Because that’s one thing you realize once you get there, is how much of being stateside you take for granted. like being able to just drive somewhere and see people, just being able to go to your favorite sushi restaurant, or you know, just the various things you can do to unwind, like hiking out in the desert. That was something I liked to do out there.</p>
<p>There was a place called Picacho Peak [State Park] between Phoenix[, Arizona] and Tucson. I’d just—randomly, I’d drive there and hike the thing and come down, but you can’t do that over there. You live in a very small compound and—similar area, so—it was—everybody actually cheered when my plane actually left the tarmac, ‘cause we were finally going home. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So that was your first deployment.</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Where was your second deployment?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>That was Afghanistan.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And what was it like there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Not as cushy [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Williams </strong>How so?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, because you don’t get to go off base there, ‘cause it’s actually dangerous outside. V-22 rockets and mortars are launched at you about twice a week. A little bit more during Ramadan, ‘cause I was deployed for those months. 9/11<a title="">[2]</a> was a particularly scary day. I’m sure those questions are coming up though.</p>
<p>But no, there’s the big burn pits. The air was always kind of smoky. The place was kind of just like—I was in Bagram Airfield[, Bagram, Parwan, Afghanistan], and it was basically like living on a big construction site with an airport. So a lot of left over buildings from the early days of the campaign, and also from the Russian occupation.<a title="">[3]</a> Right where I was living, there was this big, old, disused—well, it’s been renovated, but it used to be the air traffic control tower when the Russians<a title="">[4]</a> owned it. So we—it was rumored to be haunted. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So how long were you in Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>That was six months and some change. We actually got held over for a couple weeks. We were supposed to be back around Thanksgiving. didn’t get back until December 4<sup>th</sup>. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Why was that?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Um, it’s tough to catch a flight out of there, to be honest. They had to constantly change the itineraries. ‘Cause every time somebody updates on social media, they see it, and then they got to change it, so someone outside isn’t watching and knowing what planes to shoot at. At least that was what I was told. I don’t know.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Makes sense.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>What did you think of Afghanistan when you first got there?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I was a little more prepared for it, but when I finally saw, like, the living quarters and just the base itself, I thought, <em>Man, I miss Qatar.</em> I used to complain about that place and—yeah. yeah. At least I had a swimming pool there [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So in what way was Afghanistan’s living quarters different from Qatar’s?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Well, in Qatar—in Qatar, I lived in these things called—well, I don’t remember what the name for them was. I think it was “trailers” probably. It was two to a room—I mean, it was supposed to be four to a room, but they didn’t do that to you. They just put you in with two people. You had like a mini fridge and all that. Bathrooms were located outside though. that kind of sucked. It was basically just this long hallway with rooms off each side, and it was a single-story building. Guys and girls in both buildings—in—in the building. So you weren’t allowed to go in each other’s rooms but, you know.</p>
<p>Afghanistan—there were more dorm-like buildings. They were about three or four stories. Had bathrooms located inside, so that was cool. But it was like three and four to a room and a lot smaller. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So what were your duties in Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Afghanistan—I ran the cryogenic element and the fuels department. So basically, my duties were to store liquid oxygen and issue it to the various agencies on base that needed it. mainly aerospace ground equipment. I was also in charge of shipping and receiving replacement cryogenic fluid from Al Udeid. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And what was your most memorable day in Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Hmm. Once again, a lot of similar days. I’ll say one of my favorite memories from that was the first time we had a movie night, just—yeah. It’s simple, but it was fun. I mean, it was towards the end, and I guess we were kind of like finally growing closer as a unit, just the few of us that were on day shift.</p>
<p>So one night, we decided to make this like, uh—it was somebody’s day off, so that’s how we do it. it was a tradition. We’d run to the chow hall and load up on like whatever free food we could get. It was all free, but, you know. Then we just rolled back to—we had this tent that was basically designated for recreation and stuff, like there was stuff to work out with. It was a big open space and you could just go in there and chill. And one of our supervisors—this guy, Sargent Little, had a projector. And so we just put a big sheet up, and just picked a movie off of somebody’s external, and just sat there and hung out. I mean, if there had been a 12-pack right there, it would have felt like home. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Do you remember what movie you watched?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, I remember we watched <em>Spider-Man</em> and [<em>The</em>]<em> Cabin in the Woods</em>—a couple others. So I don’t know. It was just one of those—it was where it almost felt like I was back home, so that was kind of cool.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So you said that 9/11 was particularly kind of scary. Why was that?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>That’s ‘cause rockets were falling out of the sky all night around base. Every time—and every time something explodes, like usually they landed on the opposite side of where I was—the east side of base. so you’d hear a boom somewhere. It sounded like somebody was setting a dumpster down, you know? But then, all of a sudden, you’d hear the alarms going off and “Incoming! Incoming!” if they saw it on time. If they didn’t see it, then it’s “IDF<a title="">[5]</a> impact! Take shelter! Don IBA!”<a title="">[6]</a> You hear every emergency vehicle on the base and that just kept going on all night.</p>
<p>They were trying to have—they had a commemorative, like five—not 5K [kilometer]—but like “fun run” or something for, you know—to commemorate 9/11,<a title="">[7]</a> which, I think—I thought was a stupid idea, but that’s just me. Gathering a bunch of people in one spot in a war zone. Sure enough, at—this is the first time a rocket landed during the day. It’s like 8 in the morning, the sun’s up, and I just—I was in the bathroom, I heard “BOOM!” And I thought, <em>They have a signal gun or something? They never shoot at us during the day.</em> Sure enough, I hear the alarm. “IDF impact! Take shelter!” So that was when they actually started attacking us, you know, during the day, at more sporadic, less predictable times, so…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So in that event, what did you do? Like when they were attacking during the day?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, you stay in your dorm basically. You weren’t allowed to leave. If they—if you were like, you know—if you had to take shelter, there’s[sic] bunkers that you can dive into if you’re caught outside. If there’s nothing around, you’ve got to basically hit the ground, open your mouth, cover your ears.</p>
<p>But that definitely wasn’t the worst one, as far as my experience though. Worst one came a couple weeks later. I was, thankfully, still in the dorms, but, the PAX [passengers] terminal right across the street got hit, and that was a loud rocking explosion. Like, it was wasn’t just the sound of, you know, a dumpster being set down. It was real. like I jumped out of my seat. I was sitting there reading, and one of my roommates was outside, and he came running upstairs white as a ghost saying, “I heard it whistle right over my head.” And suddenly you just start to hear stuff just exploding all over the base. I was actually kind of scared at that one—at that point. So we were—yeah, I think I was about an hour—two hours late to work. One of our fuel trucks got hit. One of the contractors was driving it. If he had been parked about three feet back, he’d be dead. Our expeditor pick-up actually took shrapnel too. Busted out the back windows, holes up and down sides. So that was the closest to home it came. Actually, I think I kept a piece of shrapnel. So yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams </strong>So do you have any, like—a funny story that sticks out in your mind while being either in Qatar or in Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull </strong>Um, yeah. Can I say it on a camera?</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Go for it.</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Okay. We had a supervisor that pissed us off. He was this guy named Sargent Myer and—just no one liked him but supervision. He threw people under the bus. He was in charge of another shop and he just dealt out these draconian punishments for rules that didn’t even exist. Like doing a walk around. Walking around your truck to inspect it after you parked it. It’s not necessary, but somebody didn’t do that, so he took away all their reading materials—whatever. This guy was a douche.</p>
<p>So I found out about a site called stickerjunkie.com, where you can pay like 25 dollars for a hundred stickers. So I was bored one day sitting at my computer, and I decided to mess around with it and wrote, “Sergeant Myer licks balls and jerks off donkeys with his mouth.” [<em>laughs</em>] My supervisor read it. He’s like, “That’s hilarious. You’re not buying that, are you?” And I’m like, “We get hazardous duty pay. sure, why not?” I bought a hundred of those stickers and distributed them to everybody in the—in the flight that was in on it. And those are to this day still decorating various places in Bagram Airfield, Kyrgyzstan Air Base,<a title="">[8]</a> um, a jet engine somewhere in Al Udeid. Yeah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>How did your supervisor feel about that? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, he didn’t find out until like the last day we left. He saw one of them sitting on the USO [United Service Organizations. So he’s like, “Oh, no.” He tried to laugh it off, you know, like, “It’s cool. I’m not mad,” but he was. He had no idea who did it to him either.</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>So did you serve anywhere else overseas other than Qatar and Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>What did—or how did you feel once you were leaving Afghanistan? Describe your last day there.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Um, a lot of kind of mixed emotions. I was definitely glad, but—I don’t know. There was just a lot—um, my plan was—well, this is what ended up happening. My deed of discharge was coming up about four months after I got back from Afghanistan. So there was a lot of that on my mind. Knowing that once I landed, I was pretty much gonna have to start getting ready to, um, basically end my entire military career and move back to Florida. Most of that was already in the works. It was just applying to UCF and getting my affairs in order, so there was a bitter sweetness.</p>
<p>Plus, I was in a relationship that was kind of just on its downward spiral. Like, I’d actually—we’d actually broken up once like a week before I got back, but then got back together and—I don’t know. it was just different. I was definitely glad to be back, of course, but it wasn’t—it wasn’t the elating experience that it was leaving Qatar. I guess, just because—I don’t know. I was in a different place then. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So you said that you were in a relationship while you were overseas in Afghanistan?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Hmm. Well, definitely strained. Part of it was—I don’t know. Um, it was cool at first, but that was because we had like just met up before I left, so we were still in that stage of the relationship. We were talking everyday, messaging each other on Facebook, talking about the future when I get back. I’d always—I’d post YouTube songs on her Facebook, you know. Cute stuff like that.</p>
<p>But, after a while, it just sort of—I don’t know—tapered off. I said something insensitive at some point, I guess. I don’t know. I’d probably be—I undoubtedly became insensitive, because, after a while, the stress of the place just gets to you. Pretty soon you can’t, you know—you’re not in a good mood. When you’ve seen enough fallen warrior ceremonies—I helped out with a couple casket missions. I had to see casualties, um, you know—you see stuff like that, suddenly you don’t really want to sit here and type out, “Oh, I love you,” and “Hugs and kisses,” and “Butterflies,” and, you know. So she sees that change and can’t really appreciate it, I guess. so pretty soon, every conversation we were having was just—had this undercurrent of like—what’s the word I’m looking for—I actually wrote a non-fiction piece about it that described it perfectly, but I’ll be damned if I can think of it now. But yeah. Needless to say, there was a lot of strain on that. I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So what has life been like after leaving the service?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>It was a stressful transition for me, but part of that was ‘cause, as soon as I landed from Afghanistan, I was trying to deconstruct that life and try and start a new one so. I didn’t really have the time to come down from it, I guess. Um, yeah. I dealt with a lot of just anxiety and depression. I had some—I’d say alcohol abuse. I wasn’t an alcoholic, but it was enough to where it was causing certain people—the VA [Veterans Administration] and others concern. Yeah.</p>
<p>So I don’t know, there was a long period when I first got back here where I was consistently pissed off 24/7. If I wasn’t mad, pissed off, whatever, I was depressed. Um, it sucks, but I only remember like one or two days of that first summer here being actually, you know, kind of happy and at peace. Part of that is just—school’s tough, and part of it was an end of another relationship in Arizona that was anterior to the military. But, also yeah. Just having to face that lack of structure for the first time in a while and kind of being in an alien place again. so…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So do you feel like you still kind of deal with that depression and anxiety today? Or have you kind of gotten over it a little bit?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I’m definitely a lot better off now than I was a year ago. So it’s still there, but most of that is mostly early childhood stuff that, according to my psychotherapist, was reactivated by my experiences in the military. So, um, yeah. So still kind of a struggle, but not near as bad.</p>
<p><strong>Williams <br /></strong>When was your discharge date for the military?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>19 May 2013.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>And did you earn any awards or medals for your service?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Mmhmm. There are several medals that they give you, like I have Outstanding Unit Award. That wasn’t a personal achievement. That was—I won an achievement medal for my duties in Qatar, actually. and that was probably the only one I can think of that I earned on my own personal merit. And that was just for, um—for working hard, basically being proactive. I impressed enough people and also did some volunteering there too. I took some college courses while I was over there and helped process some blood units to send to other areas of the AOR [area of responsibility]. so…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So what are you doing today?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Today? As in—this. Okay. So today I’m doing an oral history project. Then I’m—I’ve got a class—Women in Hispanic Literature. then I’m going to be conducting my own interview on my friend, Lynette, for that same class. I’m supposed to go to my anthropology lecture hall today, and then community group at my church tonight. and that’s about it. Revising a story.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So what do you do in like your everyday life now-a-days?</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Day-to-day life. I work at the VARC [Veterans Academic Resource Center] about three hours a day there. just helping out other student veterans with whatever issues they have. Our big focus this semester, besides Military Appreciation Week, was just trying to get people off the academic probation list, touching base with them, seeing what we can do to them to help them out and try to direct them to whatever resources we have available for them.</p>
<p>Then I’m taking a full course load. I’m majoring in Creative Writing, so—taking Women in Hispanic Lit, ‘cause you need literature courses and diversity. Advanced Fiction Writing. I’m an intern at <em>The Florida Review</em>, as well. So I’ve been doing a lot of work with them. And then just a gen[eral]-ed[ucation] class. so…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Do you feel that working at the VARC and helping other veteran students—do you feel like that helps you as well?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>In what ways?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, it’s fulfilling to know that you can—that you’ve helped somebody out. And I also enjoy interacting with the other veterans on campus too. I’ve grown pretty close with the work study staff there, as well. Like, we all hang out together and everything. And I’ve made a lot of friends just from people coming in and out of the—out of the VARC. So…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>So how did your time in the Air Force affect your life today?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Well, mostly positive. I mean, before I was living in an apartment in Cocoa Beach with a drug dealer, and a—yeah—psychopath. and I basically had a decision to make. It was either stay in this lifestyle and struggle. I’d undoubtedly end up in jail. No future there. I was always working minimum wage jobs.</p>
<p>Or I could join the military, have a shot at going to college. I’d always wanted to be an author, and I’d always wanted to go to college, but didn’t really get that opportunity coming out of high school. So the military definitely served its purpose. The GI Bill [Servicemen’s Readjustment Act of 1944] had been excellent. I’m done with most of the requirements for my degree next semester. So, yeah. I’ve basically attained a dream. Came at a price though, but…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Is there anything else that we have not discussed that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>Hmm. Not that I can think of.</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Dull<br /></strong>I’m better with questions, so…</p>
<p><strong>Williams<br /></strong>Alright. Well, that will conclude the interview. Thank you so much for your service and for talking with us today.</p>
<p><strong>Dull <br /></strong>Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Melbourne International Airport.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December of 1979.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Soviets.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Indirect fire.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Interceptor body armor.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> Terrorist attacks on September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[8]</a> Correction: Manas Air Base.</p>
</div>
</div>
Date Issued
2015-01
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
9/11 Attacks
Abu Nakhlah Airport
Afghan War
Afghanistan
airman
airmen
Al Udeid AB
Al Udeid Air Base
alcohol abuse
alcoholism
Anchorage, Alaska
anxiety
Bagram Airfield
bargaining
basic training
Brevard County
cryogenics
Danny Trejo
Davis-Monthan AFB
Davis-Monthan Air Force Base
deployment
deployments
depression
Doha, Qatar
drug addictions
Dull, Heather
Dull, Josh R.
Dull, Joshua "Josh" R.
Elmendorf AFB
Elmendorf Air Force Base
Empower Wyoming
EOD
Explosive Ordinance Disposal
fuels department
fuels tech school
GI Bill
Global War on Terror
GWOT
Hakthor
Heather Dull
Indians
Iraq War
Josh Dull
Joshua R. Dull
liquid oxygen
Little
McChord Field
Melbourne
Melbourne International Airport
mental health
Middle East
Middle Easterner
military family
military training
Myer
Nepalese
Once Upon a Time in Mexico
Outstanding Unit Award
oxygen
Picacho Peak State Park
post-traumatic stress disorder
PTSD
Qatar
Qataris
Rachel Williams
Ramadan
Reveille
Rip It
rocket attacks
Romero
September 11 Attacks
Servicemen's��s Readjustment Act of 1944
souq
Soviet Union
Soviet War in Afghanistan
Spider-Man
Sri Lankan
substance abuse
Tacoma, Washington
tech school
terrorism
terrorists
The Cabin in the Woods
The Florida Review
Tucson, Arizona
U.S. Air Force
UCF
UCF VARC
University of Central Florida
USAF
V-22
VARC
veterans
Veterans Academic Resource Center
War in Afghanistan
Wichita Falls, Texas
Wyoming
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c4a7c19efcd344fcc98e14addfc7600f.pdf
340d2c2cc0e254c232e5ce4f0457fab2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Orlando Gay Chorus Collection
Alternative Title
Gay Chorus Collection
Is Part Of
Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program
Type
Collection
Digital Collection
<div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div>
<div class="element-text"> </div>
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Music--Florida
Dance--United States
Gay culture--United States
Description
The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland
Alternative Title
Oral History, Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Music--Florida
Mass shootings
Memorials--Florida
Women clergy
Description
An oral history interview of Reverend Margaret E. “Peggy” Howland, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus and a former Presbyterian minister. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the interviewee’s residence in Orlando, Florida, on December 13th, 2016. Some of the topics covered include becoming one of the first female ministers, fighting for GLBTQ+ rights, joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, her role in the Orlando Gay Chorus, her favorite productions, the mass shooting at Pulse nightclub, women in the chorus, the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy, changing community attitudes on homosexuality, missing out on initial vigils, memorials and outreaches, physical challenges, performing at the first responders breakfast, the long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy, and her closing remarks.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Becoming one of the first female ministers <br />0:05:35 Fighting for GLBTQ+ rights <br />0:13:12 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus <br />0:20:54 Role in the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions <br />0:24:21 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub <br />0:26:12 Role in the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions (continued) <br />0:27:58 Women in the chorus <br />0:31:04 Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy <br />0:37:58 Changing community attitudes on homosexuality <br />0:41:57 Missing out on initial vigils, memorials and outreaches <br />0:44:23 Physical challenges <br />0:45:31 First responders breakfast <br />0:48:18 Long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy <br />0:52:27 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Reverend Margaret E. “Peggy” Howland. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida, on December 13, 2016.
Type
Moving Image
Source
Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy". Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, December 13, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 56-minute, and 28-second oral history: Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy". Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida.
Coverage
Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts, Orlando, Florida
Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses Festival, Denver, Colorado
Joy Metropolitan Community Church, Orlando, Florida
Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, Florida
Orlando Museum of Art, Orlando, Florida
The Plaza Live, Orlando, Florida
Pulse nightclub, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy"
Cravero, Geoffrey
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>
Date Created
2016-12-13
Date Copyrighted
2016-12-13
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
363 MB
Medium
56-minute, and 28-second audio recording
18-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Humanities Teacher
Music Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">RICHES</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><em>Chorus and Community</em></a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006.
Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." <em>Orlando Sentinel</em>, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html.
Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." <em>The Advocate</em>, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning.
Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." <em>Watermark</em>, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGxwUnVAyGU&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oral History of Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland</a>
Transcript
Cravero
Alright. Let’s see. Okay. Let’s see. This is Geoffrey Cravero and I’m conducting an oral history with Reverend Peggy Howland of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted at the interviewee’s residence in Orlando, Florida, on Tuesday, December 13th, 2016.
Peggy, thanks for speaking with us today. If you would, let’s start by having you state your full name and telling us a little bit about where you’re from.
Howland
Well, officially, I’m the Reverend Margaret E. Howland. But I’m called Peggy. Um, I’m a—a New Yorker. Um, was living in New York City and right around there for 54 years before I came down here to Orlando, um, going almost four years now.
Cravero
That’s great. What, um—let’s see. What about a little about your family history? What did your parents do?
Howland
My father was an attorney. Head of a law firm. And, um, my mother had taught school before she started having her five children [laughs]. And, um, we had a very c—comfortable life after three of u—the first three of us were born during the [Great] Depression. And, um, we skimped and saved a lot. And, uh—but then, uh, as my father became, um—got his law degree and became active as a lawyer and a community figure, we—we had a fairly comfortable life.
Cravero
And, um, how and when did you become involved in, uh, the church?
Howland
Oh. We went to Sunday school from childhood. My, um—my—my father had been an Episcopalian and my mother a Presbyterian. But they decided on a Methodist church that had a big Sunday school. And, uh, we went to Sunday school all the time.
Uh, but as a teenager, I began to become—I think really partly it was the i—influence of my Sunday school teachers that I became more interested in the Bible. And I—I think I spent all my life searching for love. And, uh, I—I think—I think my mother wasn’t able to show, uh, love in a very overt way. Uh, because I always had the feeling I was trying to get my mother to love me. But God loved me. And I began as a—especially as a teenager, I began to have this overwhelming conviction of the love of God for me and for all people. And, um—and I fell in love with the Bible, uh, and the stories.
And eventually, uh—it was a time when a woman—I mean there were no women ministers. Um, and I didn’t even—we were Republicans in our family. And we didn’t, uh—we—people talked about women’s rights. Equal rights for women. And I didn’t know if I was in favor of that because I had been taught by some pretty conservative Christians that, um, women were supposed to be in a different position than men. Course, I don’t believe that any more. Uh, I think God loves us all the same. And, uh—and I think it’s a misinterpretation of the Bible, uh, to make—and—and—and failing to see the, um, teachings of Jesus and the example of Jesus. It—and—and even the example of St. Paul and others in the Bible, uh, for whom women, eh—Christianity liberated women and gave them an opportunity to be part of—of this message of—of God’s love, uh, for people.
And, um, i—it was—it was slow. I was slow growing into that. But at—at the University of Pennsylvania, uh, where I went to school, uh, I was able to major in the Lands of the Bible. I majored in Oriental Studies. Basically, the Near East. And I studied Ancient, um, Art. And Literature. And History. And Language. And Civilization of Egypt. And Mesopotamia. And Palestine. All the lands, uh, of the Bible. And s—I studied Greek and Hebrew to read the Bible in the original languages. And, uh, it was—it was just, uh—I was just so in love with the Bible and of the message of God’s love, uh, for people.
It was a long time before I fully began to understand God’s love for everybody. Um, when we were young, uh, we didn’t know anything about gay and lesbian. That was, uh—it was—it was so much in the closet. So hidden that you never saw it. And, uh—but as a woman minister—as one of the very first, uh, women—wo—uh, women me—in the ministry in the Presbyterian Church, uh—as we began—as—it was a long time. It was maybe 20 years after I was ordained that women began to be more, uh—it began to be more common for women to be clergy. And, uh, as we would meet in support groups and—and, uh, sharing with one another, it began to be very clear to us—it was in the early seventies that, uh, churches began to get concerned about whether homosexuals were allowed to be ordained. Um, which people thought was, you know—they began to think, Well, we shouldn’t—we should be kind to other people. But ordain them? Um, and, uh—and nobody ever thought marriage [laughs].
But, uh—but the women clergy began to see that gay people were being treated the same way we had been treated. Um, I mean people—people said very rude and crude things to me about they didn’t, you know—they didn’t believe—that God was—the Bible was against us. Wi—they didn’t believe that—that God would call a woman to be—to preach. But I knew from the very beginning that it wasn’t my idea [laughs].
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
That it was God’s idea. Because I—I really believed that God had led me, uh, in this direction. Uh, so it didn’t matter what they said. And—and I, uh, often have thought about the words of, uh, Susan B. Anthony , who in 1848, was among the women who asked for the right to vote. And they didn’t get it until 1920, long after Susan B. Anthony was dead. And she had—she had gone to congress every year of her life, um, ask—asking and working for the right to vote. And she didn’t live to see it but she said, “Failure is impossible.” And this is what I began to t—tell my gay friends. “Failure is impossible [laughs].”
Uh, even though y—they couldn’t see that there would any time be acceptance, um—in the beginning, I used to worry that people would think that I was gay because I knew that the gay clergy—people that I knew were gay weren’t—were still in the closet. And I was never—I was never outing them. And they—I knew that they couldn’t speak up in public. But I could. And I felt—I began to feel a little angry about it for a while. Why do I have to do this all the time? People will start thinking I’m gay. And then it got to the point where I didn’t care if they did. And now I think I even consider it a compliment if somebody thinks I’m gay. Because, um—especially—I—I mean the gay people that I’ve known in the church have been very active through—in the Presbyterian Church nationally in terms of helping to open up, uh, ordination to women. Uh, I was a representative for my Presbytery to testify, um, at our general assembly, where we finally approved the ordination of gay and lesbian and transgender people.
And, um—and also was active—very active in working up in New York State, uh, for, uh, the—the state to approve the, uh, marriage of, uh, gay people. And I can remember just before the final vote of the senate in New York—and I was up there in my clerical collar, uh, at this[sic] senate hearings. And, um, demonstrating. And one of the men who was there—I think it was an Episcopal deacon, uh, said to me that he and his partner were married. They’d been married in Canada and they lived in New York. And I found out then that there were already 9,000 couples in New York—gay couples who were married legally and recognized by the State of New York because they’d been married somewhere else. Because the state would—would—while they wouldn’t allow anybody to be married in New York, they’d let—they’d recognize marriages from elsewhere. And so then, New York State voted, uh, to approve the, uh, marriage of—of gay and lesbian couples.
And, uh, then, shortly after that, I came to Florida and started working on it down here. And when I came to Florida, uh, my friends were appalled that I was leaving. I was kind of appalled, too. But I kne—I knew that I needed to take care of myself. And I was able to find a retirement community that I could come to here that I could afford. And so I said to them a—as I was leaving I would say, “I’m being sent as a missionary to a racist, sexist, homophobic, gun-totin’ state.” And they would laugh. And I would laugh. But after I got here, I gradually began to realize this was my mission here.
And, um, I—I—I—I couldn’t believe at the age of 80, when I came here, I could still sing. Because a lot of my friends were losing their voices. And, um, I—the first Sunday I was here—and I went to the Park Lake Presbyterian Church—uh, they had a notice in the bulletin about the Park Lake Gay-Straight Partnership meeting that next week. And, uh, I was thrilled. Um, and we have this marvelous small group of—of gay and straight people who—we have a partnership and we try to help educate the church, um, and other people about this. And—and last year we had our first marriage in the church of t—uh, two men. Then we had a wonderful celebration. And I—far as I know, we’re the only Presbyterian church so far in this Central Florida Presbytery that has had a gay marriage, uh, in the church. And it was a—it was great.
Um, but I—one of my friends introduced me to someone—we were at a gathering of FAVO. The Faith Arts Village of Orlando, which our church sponsors, uh, in a—in an old converted motel, uh, next door to the church. Um, it’s a marvelous, uh, thing. The first Friday of every month. And I was there and I was having—having something to eat sitting outside. And I got introduced to this guy who was a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. And I said—and, uh, I said, “Oh.” I said, “I’ve gotta find someplace to sing, um, here in Orlando. Because I’m afraid if I don’t keep singing, I’ll lose the ability to sing. Because so many of my friends my age can’t sing anymore.” And he says, “You can join the Orlando Gay Chorus.” And I said, “You have women?” And they said, “Yes.” I said, “Do you have to be gay?” He said, “No.
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
Everybody can sing.” So that was in the summer. First summer here. And at Christmastime I went to the holiday show that the chorus had at the Plaza Live. And I—I bought a—a ticket that cost a little more so I could get in early. And I went and sat in the front row. And I can see on the stage standing on the risers there were some people sitting on the risers, who obviously weren’t able to stand. And so they were allowed to sit. And there were people with white hair. And there were young and very old. There were men and women. There were—there were—I already knew there were gay and straight and trans. And black and white. And really, really fat people. And really skinny people [laughs]. And, uh, then I began to—at the end they came—they came down the steps right in front of me and walked out. And I saw them helping a woman down the steps who obviously had cerebral palsy. And I thought, I can belong to this group.
And so we had the auditions in January, um, three years ago. And, uh—and I became a member of the chorus. And it’s been just amazing. On the—there are two of us that are 83 years old in the chorus. We’re the two oldest. And, um, I’m very proud of that [laughs].
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
But that’s—that’s what I found in this community. Uh, a loving, caring, thoughtful, kind, talented group of people of every sort who—who sing. And who work hard. And, uh, they’ve been so helpful and accepting of me. And in the beginning—in the beginning, I couldn’t stand the noise. I was—I—I—there’s so much—there—these young people, they—they make a lot of noise [laughs].
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
I thought, I—I don’t know if I can last through this. But I have. And, um, they’re so helpful and—and kind. And they’re really like a family to me. Um, it’s been wonderful. And, uh, especially the last couple years, um, with our new, um, artistic directors. The quality of the chorus—it only be can’t—only became a soprano, alto, tenor and bass a couple years before I came here. F—s—it’s going on for 26 years now. And there’s still some of the original men who founded the chorus in it.
Uh, what courage these men had 26 years ago, uh, to come out. Uh, and that—to me, that’s what really has brought about, uh, the—the acceptance, um—full acceptance of people. Uh, it’s pretty good here in the Orlando area. Although there’s still problems some places. But, um, the—the one thing that has made it possible is the courage of gay and lesbian and trans people, uh, to come out. Uh, straight people being allies, um, is important but—but it’s nothing like the courage of these people who know, uh—I remember the first time I went to—in—in 2003, I had become so active with the LGBTQ organizations and the Presbyterian Church, um—in 2003, I went to a—a huge, uh, gathering—a conference called “Witness Our Welcome”. It was held at the University of Pennsylvania, which is my—my alma mater. And, um, it was people of all faiths, um, different religions, uh, gay and le—LGBT groups coming together. And I was a little scared to go because I didn’t quite know how I would relate to—to gay people, uh, you know, on a wider basis [laughs]. And I remember going—oh—oh, there were people out there with their signs. Their hateful signs. Uh, but I remember they had worship every evening in an Episcopal cathedral, uh, right near the campus. And I remember thinking when I went to those services, This is the most joyous worship I had ever been part of in my whole life. Because here were people who knew that God loved them. And they were in a safe place. And they were able to worship with such joy. And, uh, to me, that—that changed everything for me.
And now I have [laughs]—I have gay friends that are Jewish. That are Wiccan. That are any religion or no religion. And they’re all wonderful. And I even have friend that are drag queens [laughs].
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
Which is kind of fun [laughs].
Cravero
Do you have, um—well, can you talk a little about what role you have in the chorus? And maybe, um, talk about, uh, one of your favorite early productions before, um, the Pulse tragedy. And we’ll talk a little bit about post afterwards.
Howland
Um, [sighs].
Cravero
[clears throat].
Howland
Well, I’m a soprano. I have been an alto all my life. But I’ve sung in—I’ve sung in choirs. Um, and for years I’ve been an alto. And, uh, after I retired from full-time pastoral ministry, um, back in 1998, um—18 years ago now—uh, I found—I didn’t—I didn’t sing in a choir or anything for a while. But I had been participating in a—in a church near where I lived in White Plains, New York. And, uh, they had a group that was getting ready to go to Africa—to Kenya to sing. And, uh, they wanted to sing back to the, uh—the Kenyans, when you come, they always sing for you. They sing and dance. And so we wanted to sing back to them. And so we—we practiced for a year. And I got into this group to go to Kenya for three weeks.
And, um, I guess I was singing soprano ‘cause that’s kind of what they needed. And after I came back from Kenya I decided to join the church choir. And they needed sopranos. And so I became a soprano. And I had never been able to sing that high before. But I tr—we had a marvelous soprano soloist. And I would imitate her. I would try to sing like—like she did. And I was having a marvelous time.
So when I came here and I au—I auditioned for the Orlando Gay Chorus, um, they dec—they thought, Yes. You’re a soprano. We’ll make you a soprano 2. ‘Cause we have soprano 1 and 2, alto 1 and 2, et cetera. And, uh, so I sing soprano and when we s—divide I sing the low soprano part. And every once in a while, I get to sing the high part, too.
Cravero
[laughs].
Howland
And I can sing higher notes than I ever could before. And I’m 83. And it amazes me. We even had a, uh—we—we have these cabarets every once in a while. And twice now, I’ve sung a solo in one of our cabarets. The first year I sang “I Could Have Danced All Night” from My Fair Lady. And, uh, then last year—in fact, it was the night before the Pulse. On June 11th[, 2016], we had this cabaret at the Orlando Museum of Art. And I sang “We Kiss in a Shadow” from, uh, The King and I. And—as a solo. And ah—it was just wonderful because I—here I was at my age singing solos. And I’m even working on one for the next time.
Um, but after the—after the concert—and the thing is, I was able to do it because the people in the chorus were so affirming. And telling me how great it sounded. So I—so I didn’t have to be scared any more. I didn’t have to be nervous any more.
And, uh, that night I had a friend come with me to the Museum of Art. And after it was over, we were hungry. And we were looking for a pizza place. And we didn’t, uh—we thought, Where—where’s a place that’s open that’s—that we can get to? And finally, we decided to go down to—we went down South Orange Avenue past the Pulse to McDonald’s and had hamburgers. And this is—this is just a couple hours before the thing happened. And so at midnight, we’re coming back past the Pulse back to home here. And I—I couldn’t believe it the next morning when I—when I woke up and looked at my phone. And people were saying—and my friends were saying, “Are you safe?” “Are you safe?” “I’m safe. Are you safe?” And, um—and that’s why every single morning since then—every morning when I wake up I—I—I—I remember the Pulse. And think about that morning for six months now.
I was telling you how I got into the chorus. And, uh, it’s—it’s been a marvelous experience. I never in my life ever before memorized all these songs. And then we have choralography they call it, where we—we, you know, do motions and things and—while we’re singing [laughs] all in concert together. Uh, and our productions are not just—i—we’re not just standing there singing like a choir. We’re participating in many different ways. Um, and it’s a real great show and production.
And, uh, I guess I’m really grateful to the Disney people who came to Orlando and helped make Orlando the kind of area where, uh, the arts and all the different kinds of production and everything, uh, were really, uh, i—it was just a place that would attract, uh, creative, uh, wonderful people. And it’s such a place of music and art her in—in Orlando. And i—it’s—it’s just so wonderful how the chorus has become a part of that in the city. The—the chor—the concerts we just had this past weekend, Glad Tidings over at the Plaza Live, we were sold out both nights. And people said it was the best show ever.
And one of the things that’s happened, uh, since—since I’ve been here it’s been happening, but it started before I came here. The Orlando Gay Chorus never was just men. Women came. Lesbians came and wanted to be part of it. And they weren’t really—I don’t think they were really welcomed at first, but they insisted. And—but for 25—for—well, 20, maybe 22, 23 years, it was an—a TTBB : just the tenor and bass, uh, chorus. It was a—it was a men’s chorus that had some women in it, who were singing with men’s voices. They were singing tenor parts. We—we even had a woman who was a bass. And, um, just a couple years before I came here, it became soprano, alto, tenor and bass.
And, um, s—it’s been harder getting as many women in. Uh, and the difference has been y—you know what gay men’s choruses sound like. I remember the first time I hear—I’ve heard gay men’s choruses in different cities. And they have this strong men’s sound. And—which is wonderful. But, um, with the soprano and alto being added to it, uh, and with our—with the current director we have, James [A.] Rode, and Harold Wright, who is his assistant, they are working for something other than the loud gay men’s voice. Instead, uh, it’s much more—the music is much more nuanced. We sing softly. Uh, we sing expressively. Uh, we sing tenderly. Uh, as well as loud [laughs]. We—we do all kinds of—of singing.
And, uh, the chorus has grown in its maturity musically within the last few years. Uh, and I’ve seen it happen. Because I think the first year I was here, we were still a gay men’s chorus in tone. Uh, and, um—and we’re—we’re becoming more—more nuanced. But—but in the last—the last year, even my friends—my musical friends say to me, “Wow. You’re so much better. You’re fabulous.” And I think it’s—it’s really because of the leadership and direction that we’ve had that’s helped us all to find our voices.
And we have al—we have—we have some men altos and women tenors. And—and, uh, uh, it’s been a—a wonderful experience. I’m not sure I remember what I’m supposed to be answering.
Cravero
Oh, I—I think you covered it.
Howland
Okay.
Cravero
And plenty [laughs]. Well, you did mention, um, when you first heard about Pulse that morning. Could you talk a little bit about, um, what you did that Sunday: the day after the tragedy? And…
Howland
Well, it was the day of the tragedy.
Cravero
Right.
Howland
I mean it happened—it started at two minutes after two that morning. And at five o’clock, they were still—I don’t if they were really starting to really get the people out of there. I mean the bodies were still in there. And, um, we—we got a call, um, I—I don’t know—we—we just have this amazing communication [laughs] now with our cellphones. And, um, I heard that we were to be at the, um—the church. The, um, Metropolitan Community Church. The Joy Metropolitan Community Church, uh, which you may know is basically a gay and lesbian organiz—uh, church. Uh, and we were to be there for a service at six o’clock. And I guess we were supposed to be there at five. Uh, and to come in our, uh—in one of our wardrobe things that we wear. And, uh—and sing. And I guess they were waiting to see how many of us showed up and who showed up as to exactly what we would sing. And we didn’t have an accompanist. So some of it was gonna be things that were acapella.
Um, and, um, I had—I had a flat tire on the way there. I—I—I must have hit the curb or something. And I had a flat tire. But thankfully, people in the house fixed the ti—they changed my tire for me. And I got to the church in time. And there was standing room only at the Metropolitan Community Church. Um, there—there were people outside. They broadcast[sic] the service to the outside. And now this—this had happened two o’clock in the morning. That day at six o’clock at this service, there were Metropolitan Community Church pastors from all over Florida. From Tallahassee. And Sarasota. And Miami, who were there for that service. I mean they just came right away. And some of our members had been standing out in lines trying to give blood that afternoon. As there were people—people were standing in line for eight hours that day to give blood. And—and—and then a lot of them came back the next day and gave blood.
Um, we—there wasn’t room for us all to sit down in the church. Uh, so a lot of the chorus members were standing along the side. And we sang two numbers that we didn’t need to have, um accompaniment for. W—we sang—and these were songs that we had just sung in our concert, uh, that—that spring, just a short time before. It was “True Colors” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. And those two songs we sang a hundred times after that. Uh, we started having from that day—and—and the very next night was, uh—in the evening was this candlelight vigil with 6,000 people there at the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center in front of it. Between City Hall and there I could still see that huge, huge crowd of people. And the experience of—of being there.
And at one point, as it was getting dark, they—they began to toll the bells. They began to toll the bell 49 times. And each time they would read the name of someone who had died. And—and there was a man standing next to me. He heard one of the names and he just collapsed. And his friends picked him up and held him. And, uh, people were lighting their candles and listening to the bells and to the—and to the names being—being read. It—there—there were—this—th—there was a woman—there was a woman there who was one of the ministers at the Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, [South Carolina], where they had the—where nine people had been killed by a gunman just a year before. And this was just—i—it was just a little before—I think that very week they were having a first anniversary. And she came down here to be with us. And the, um—there was also a prayer given by a Muslim imam.
And what I saw that day, the very day after this happened, was—were three things. I saw love. I saw solidarity. And I saw unity. And that’s what they were talking about: “Orlando United”. “Orlando Strong”. And it—it was such a moving thing to be part of an experience and see a city that just came together over this. And—and that day when it happened. On that Sunday. I—I’ve always said that I’m a New Yorker. And I’m proud to be a New Yorker. I’m a Yankee fan. Uh, but I was proud to be an Orlandoan that day. And I—and I—given me such a sense of being part of this community, that is united and strong. And loving and supportive.
And—and I know that there’s people here who, uh, still want to, uh, ridicule and condemn gay people. But, uh—but I think there’s less of them. And I think people are opening up. One of the a—amazing things that’s happened, because I live here in this retirement community, just last night a woman said to me, “You know, I have a daughter who’s gay.” I have another friend—at—the people—because they knew here that I’ve been singing with the Orlando Gay Chorus, there were people who said to me—I remember one woman in tears who said to me, “My granddaughter’s gay. I’m so worried for her.” Because when they realize that—that this attack at the Pulse, uh, hit home to gay people.
And—and, of course, I sing with the Orlando Gay Chorus. We went the following month in July—the beginning of July—only three weeks later—out to Denver, Colorado, for the GALA Festival. The Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses. And we had choruses from all over the world. Mainly from the United States, but other places, too. And, um, people there were—were hugging and kissing us [laughs] all the time. They would say—they would see that we were from Orlando and they’d say, “May I hug you?”
Um, but all around the world people felt this. The same way as my friend whose granddaughter was gay here. And other people who live here who have gay family members who are, uh—who just fear for them, uh, because of this. Uh, and it brought back all the—the tender, um, uh, heart-wrenching, uh, experiences that people have had. And, of course, now with the new president-elect , um, making, uh, bigotry seem more powerful, um, people are feel—feeling the same thing again.
But I—I am so proud of—of the gay community here. And I’m proud, uh, to be considered part of it as an ally. And to be totally accepted, uh, by them. And it’s given me—there were—in the beginning of living here, uh, at what I call here “the Old Folks Home”, I—I was—I did not often wear my t-shirts that say “Orlando Gay Chorus” on them. Uh, because I didn’t want to offend people. But I don’t care anymore. And, uh, I want them to be—if it offends them, fine. We’ll talk about it. And, uh, I want to—I really think I’ve become known here, uh, as—as, uh—as somebody who’s a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. And, um, I’ve met employees here who are gay. Um, people still are pretty much in the closet. Uh, anybody who’s gay here at this old folks home. But, um—and I’m not outing anybody, but I’m outing myself as an ally. And if they think I’m gay, that’s fine, too. That’s alright.
Cravero
Um, [clears throat] as you, uh—well, you were speaking about some of the vigils. As you reflect on some of your experiences with the vigils, um—well, how many did you participate in afterwards? And is there anything that—that particularly stands out to you from those?
Howland
Well, I probably have participated in 20 or 30 of them. We’ve had 50 or 60. Uh, some, uh—we have four ensembles in the chorus. And some of the—some of the vigils have been done by ensembles because they were the easiest ones to get together. Uh, a lot of them have come just at a few moments notices. Um, I, uh, was—I participated—I had to leave town for 10 days, uh, at the end of June. In between the time the Pulse happened and the GALA Festival out in Denver. Uh, I went to Portland, Oregon, where the Presbyterian Church General Assembly was meeting. And, uh, I’m a very active, uh, participant in, um, uh, working with the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship and other organizations. And with the, uh—the LGBTQ organizations as well out there. Uh, and so I spent a lot of my time telling people out there about, uh, Orlando. So I missed a bunch of the, uh, important outreaches that we had. The memorials. The vigils.
Um, there have been so many of—different kinds. Some of them were fundraising. We sang “True Colors” and—and, uh, “When you walk through the storm." We sang both of those, uh, a great deal. And some other songs as well. Some of us—p—people just carried their—their shirts. We had our Billboard shirts that we usually sing in. And whatever the wardrobe was gonna be people just carried it in their cars so that they’d be available at a moment’s notice.
And I’m—you know, I’m handicapped. I’m—I’m elderly. I use a walker and a cane. And I’m—the—PJ Galas Finster is our, um, stage manager for all kinds of things. And he would always make sure wherever we sang that there was a way—there were people to help me up steps if I had to get up steps. Uh, there was a place I could sit or I would sit in my walker seat. Uh, we—they always arranged to include me in it. And, uh, it was a lot of effort many times to get a parking place and to be able to move, uh, to where we were supposed to sing [door closes]. Uh, it was a tremendous effort for me to keep walking, uh, when I—when I didn’t feel like walking. And, um, because I am physically challenged. But, uh, eh, they—the people in the chorus have done so much to help include me.
Um, some of the things—we had a thing out at, um—at UCF . It was—I think it was the School of Social Work. Maybe there were two different schools together that had a memorial service after people came back to school in—in September. And that was moving. To hear people tell the stories. We sang, um, over at the [Orange County] Convention Center, uh, on International Drive for a first responders breakfast. Um, oh, I had to walk a mile to get to that. Um, the Convention Center’s so huge. I had a terrible time. I couldn’t even find the place. And then when I found it, I had to walk forever inside the building to get to where we were singing.
But then, to be there, uh—the singing—we were gr—we were so grateful that we were able to be there and sing. And give some su—support to them. But then, to hear the stories that were told of what these first responders did for which they were being honored. They were giving out awards that day. Uh, and a bunch of them were for people who were at the Pulse. Uh, and to hear what they went through in, um—and what they did, uh, to, uh—at a danger to themselves. And, um, there was one police—I—I don’t know that he was honored f—for this, but one of the police, uh, responders has—the last I heard, he was still suffering from PTSD from all that he saw—that he just can’t—that he—he—he dreams about it at night. He can’t get it out of his mind. He’s been unable to work.
Um, people don’t realize—a—and—and the stories the doctors—th—the doct—the doctor who had the bloody shoes that he’s never given up and never cleaned. The bloody shoes while he was operating on people. Um, there were so many things that we heard from other people. And, um, I don’t—I don’t—tell—tell me—tell me, have I answered…
Cravero
Oh, absolutely.
Howland
[laughs].
Cravero
Yeah. You’ve—you’ve covered questions I would—I didn’t even have to ask [laughs].
Um, what would you, uh, hope that some of the long-term consequences would be for not only the Orlando gay community, but maybe for the larger city or even the, you know, larger society as a whole, uh, from—from this tragedy?
Howland
Well, I hope people will be kindler[sic]—kinder and gentler. I—I have been so impressed with the spirit that Orlando has had. I mean I just k—keep seeing this “Orlando Strong”, or y—or—course being right down here in Downtown South, where it all happened, um—eh, the—the signs all over the place about “Orlando Strong”.
I mean even—even I wore—I was wearing a Pulse shirt yesterday. I wore my Pulse shirt for the—for the, um, six-month anniversary. And an old woman [laughs] said to me, “Oh. Can—are those still available? Do you think I could get one?” And—and I—I wear t-shirts all the time around here. I’m probably the o—only what that does. I mean occasionally other people wear t-shirts. But I happen to love t-shirts. And—and so I’m very comfortable in them. So I don’t dress up every day. I wear t-shirts. I love t-shirts. And, um, so I have all my t-shirts for solidarity. Uh, and I guess maybe people are able to respond to me because of that.
But, um, I just—I’m impressed. And I’ve seen a spirit in Orlando. I mean even the fact that this past weekend at our concerts that we had of the Orlando Gay Chorus—our holiday concert, um—it—the—it was packed. Full—full house. Both—both times. And there’s—the people who are going out of their way to stand up for the community and for the gay community and for inclusion—people are becoming prouder of who they are. And prouder of their support and solidarity and unity.
And, uh, I think even some of the ultra-conservative Bible Belt people, um, are growing in their understanding. And—and realizing—eh, eh—some of my friends here, um—here at the old folks home ha—were so shocked when they heard about the Pulse. That these young people needed a safe place to be. It was a safe place for them. And they were kind of shocked and chagrinned that young people would need a safe place. But—but we have it here. We have the Zebra Coalition and the Hope and Help Center [of Central Florida]. Uh, all the different groups here in Orlando that are working for—helping people that have—they’re homeless because they’re gay. And I—I think people are coming together more. I—I hate to have to say that a terrible thing like this has been responsible for it, but I think the response of the community is—is strengthening who we are. And I—I hope it can extend more to the rest of the country.
Cravero
I think you’ve covered all of the questions I had for you. Is there any, uh, other final thoughts or anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t discussed yet?
Howland
I think—I think that even though I’m at a stage in my life where things are becoming much more physically difficult for me, um, that the courage that this has given to me, um, is something that I’m grateful for. Uh, and I—I hope I can—I hope I can continue doing as much as I can, uh, for as long as I can. Um, but I—I—I can at least say things and write things. Just today, there came out in the email—I happened to be on the development committee of the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship—that I’ve been an active, uh, participant in, uh, on the serving on the national committee and, uh—for 48 years. Um, we have an advent appeal for funds, uh, eh, in the month before Christmas. And we were doing emails every few says, uh, this month. And I wrote the one last week that came out today in the email. And I wrote it about gun violence.
That’s another thing that I see happening. I see the gay community really getting behind the whole, um, end gen[sic] vi—uh, gun violence movement. And for my—for my little, uh, story that I wrote for the email that came out this morning, um, I told them how every morning I wake up thinking about the Pulse. And if I wake up every morning thinking about that, what is going through the minds of the families, uh, from Charleston[, South Carolina], from Sandy Hook [Elementary School]? These families that lost those precious children. Um, how many people throughout our country are, uh, experiencing these flashbacks, these memories that tug at their hearts? Um, eh, that will never leave them their whole lives of what has happened to them. Uh, and how we all have to, uh, get into this—it—it’s absolutely necessary that we get rid of these assault rifles and that we—we work hard on gun violence. And making sure that—that this—that i—it’s—it’s happening every single day in this country. And we have to do something about it.
And I’m—I’m—I’m happy that, uh, the gay community, that’s a strong community and has a lot to—to, uh—a lot of power and a lot of voice now, um, will—will get into this battle, too, to end gun violence.
Cravero
Peggy, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and thoughts with us today. Um, this has been Geoffrey Cravero with Peggy Howland on Tuesday, December 13th, 2016.
Howland
Thank you.
2016 Orlando nightclub shooting
Charleston
choralography
chorus
Denver
Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts
Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church
FAVO
female clergy
first responders
first responders breakfast
fundraisers
GALA Choruses Festival
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Geoffrey Cravero
Glad Tidings
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gun control
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Harold Wright
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Hope and Help Center of Central Florida
I Could Have Danced All Night
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