Reisz
Alright and my name is Autumn Reisz and it is March 2nd, 2013 and I am talking with Algerine today at the History Harvest. And we're going to talk about some of the items that she brought today.
Reisz
So, first, ah, how did you hear about us and our event today?
Miller
Ah, Meghan [Vance] and, um—I can't think of her name.
Reisz
I know Meghan came to see you. Was it Dr. [Rosalind J.] Beiler? Did you talk to her? Um, I am trying to think of who else went out.
Miller
Dr. who?
Reisz
Dr. Beiler—Rose?
Miller
Yes, Rose. I talked to Rose. Yes, yes.
Reisz
Did you talk to Rose? Um, Excellent.
Reisz
And then, um, tell us what you brought today.
Miller
Well, today I brought some documents going back in my family history. The birth of my father.
Reisz
Thanks. Very nice. That is fantastic. What else do you have?
Miller
And I have the property deed for the property which we still have.
Reisz
Nice.
Miller
This is my father, my father's mother. My father and mother. My father's mother. My mother's sister and her husband. My father's three brothers—I mean two brothers. That's another picture of my father. That's an earlier picture. My brother who's deceased, on the left. My brother who's deceased. This is my family.
Reisz
Is that the house?
Miller
That's the house. Yes.
Reisz
Excellent.
Miller
This is a picture of my sister who was attached to the White House. And she has a picture with…
Reisz
Ah, yeah!
Miller
With President [Bill] Clinton.
Reisz
That is fantastic! Well, I am going to give these back, because they're a little fragile.
Miller
Mmkay.
Reisz
So you said ya'll have had that house and that property for how long?
Miller
1946, I believe.
Reisz
Yeah? Still living there and, ah…
Miller
Still living there. The house's still standing. [laughs]
Reisz
Now you brought these particular pictures to be scanned today, because they are—they are very significant to you? And you wanted to make sure you had digital copies, right?
Miller
[nods] Yes.
Reisz
Is there one in particular that you really wanted to make sure that got scanned? Was it the picture, the deed, or everything?
Miller
Everything.
Reisz
Everything. Well alright. Any stories you'd like to share?
Miller
No. I can't think of any right now.
Reisz
Okay. Well, that's it. We just wanted to know a little bit about the items that you brought today and how you heard about us, and, ah, that's it. Nice and easy.
Miller
Okay.
Reisz
Thank you very much.
Miller
You're welcome.
Reisz
We really appreciate it.
Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, which took several years of planning. The play focused on how the people of Sanford overcame obstacles throughout their history. Some of these stories include the fall of Sanford's celery industry, the Freeze of 1894-1895, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. Richard Geer and Jules Corriere, partners from Community Performance International, were in charge of assessing oral histories, converting them into scenes for the play, and writing original songs. Director Geer also used an all-volunteer cast from the local community, many of which were not experienced actors.
During the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which was located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. As of December 2013, the Executive Board for Creative Sanford included President Brian Casey, Vice President Trish Thompson, Treasurer Linda Hollerbach, Secretary Dr. Annye Refoe, and Founder Jeanine Taylor. The Board of Directors consisted of Cheryl Deming, Juanita Roland, Wendy Wheaton, and Dr. Connie Lester, a professor of history at the University of Central Florida. Honorary Board Members included: Glenda Hood, former Florida Secretary of State and Mayor of Orlando; Valada Flewellyn, a local poet, author, and historian; and Jackie Jones, a local entertainer and arts advocate.
]]>Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, which took several years of planning. The play focused on how the people of Sanford overcame obstacles throughout their history. Some of these stories include the fall of Sanford's celery industry, the Freeze of 1894-1895, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. Richard Geer and Jules Corriere, partners from Community Performance International, were in charge of assessing oral histories, converting them into scenes for the play, and writing original songs. Director Geer also used an all-volunteer cast from the local community, many of which were not experienced actors.
During the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which was located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. As of December 2013, the Executive Board for Creative Sanford included President Brian Casey, Vice President Trish Thompson, Treasurer Linda Hollerbach, Secretary Dr. Annye Refoe, and Founder Jeanine Taylor. The Board of Directors consisted of Cheryl Deming, Juanita Roland, Wendy Wheaton, and Dr. Connie Lester, a professor of history at the University of Central Florida. Honorary Board Members included: Glenda Hood, former Florida Secretary of State and Mayor of Orlando; Valada Flewellyn, a local poet, author, and historian; and Jackie Jones, a local entertainer and arts advocate.
Reisz
My name is Autumn Reisz, and I’m here with Mark Miller, and we are asking the wonderful Trish [Thompson] a few questions today about Celery Soup and Creative Sanford[, Inc]. Um, if you just want to take a second and introduce yourself and we’ll get started on the questions.
Thompson
Okay. I’m Trish Thompson and I am, um, former president of Creative Sanford for four years now, and vice president, and theater manager. Um, when we do our interviews we tell where we are and what the atmosphere is. So I’ll say we’re in my office and, um, the atmosphere is quiet and we only have an air-conditioner going that could possibly interrupt.
Miller
Okay.
Thompson
So I’m ready when you are.
Miller
Alright.
Thompson
Start asking!
Miller
Well, thanks. Okay, um, what is Celery Soup?
Thompson
Okay. Celery Soup is Florida’s Folk Life Play. It’s a story that is comprised—a play, excuse me—that is comprised of story gathering which we have done, which is a lost art, and we, uh, get them from the citizens of Seminole County[, Florida] and hire a playwright. They put the stories together and that becomes Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play and we’ve done three performances, um, with the first one being Touch and Go, the second one being Made - Not Bought, and the third one being Remade - Not Bought. And, um, there—it went over so well, we’re—we’re just—we’re real happy with it and we’re already in—working with the playwright to get another one on the road for next year. So, uh, Creative Sanford is the umbrella organization. We are the producers of Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play.
Miller
Oh, very nice. Um, uh, what is the mission of Celery Soup?
Thompson
Uh, the mission of Creative Sanford—now you’ve got to know that we are the 501(c)(3) —Creative Sanford is. The, uh, actual production is Celery Soup—that’s the branding—is Celery Soup. It’s always Celery Soup. Every year the name of the play will change, but when they say, “What’s happening with Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play?” You know, then you tell ‘em whatever the new thing is that’s happening. Um, I’d have to read you our mission.
Miller
Oh, alright. That’s fine. No, that was excellent.
Thompson
Yeah.
Miller
Yeah. So, um, how did the idea for Celery Soup develop?
Thompson
Okay, the idea for, um, Celery Soup was, through our, um, person—the—the people that we knew in Colquitt, Georgia. And so Jeanine Taylor, our founder, went up there, met the people, saw the show and, um, and decided to bring it to Sanford when she moved her, uh, business here. And it was to help the economy and, uh, that was the first thought was that, you know, it was going to be an economic driver, bring people to Sanford, and of course help her business and other businesses in town. And she got the mayor and other people interested and they went up, saw the show, said, “Yes. This would be great for Sanford,” and that’s how it came to be in Sanford.
Then we spent three hard years with interviewing people and getting the community to understand what we do. We hired, uh, uh, Celery Soup—I mean, excuse me, Swamp Gravy—to come to Sanford and teach us how to do the interviews. Uh, they gave us the booklet that we use and, uh—just on a side note—uh, Freddie [Roman-Toro] who is—was our intern this spring, he rewrote it and updated it and got it where, um, it would fit in more with the RICHES [Regional Initiative for Collecting the History, Experiences, and Stories of Central Florida] Mosaic Interface that we’re gonna be using with UCF [University of Central Florida]. [phone rings]
Miller
Alright. How did you change the Swamp Gravy model to fit the needs of Sanford?
Thompson
You know, that’s really interesting, because they’re—was that your question?
Miller
No. That’s not.
Thompson
Alright.[laughs]
Reisz
But Mark [Miller] really liked it.
Thompson
Yes. Okay. Now when you’re interviewing, you know, you might not want the subject to know that you [laughs]—so you’re gonna learn along with me, um, the um—we been—what was the question again? I’m sorry.
Reisz
Um, how did you change the Swamp Gravy model…
Thompson
Oh, okay.
Reisz
To fit Sanford’s needs?
Thompson
Swamp Gravy’s model—2,000 people—very small town, very isolated—and they had to draw from churches and, uh, they went way outside the area to bring people in and they had to bus them in to, uh, to come to the play. And everyone in the community was involved in it, because, you know, 2,000 people and you’re puttin’ on a production with a hundred people, you know, that’s—that’s almost everybody in the town, at one point or another, has been in the play.
So for us, we’re in Central Florida. we compete with [Walt] Disney [World], the I[nterstate-4 corridor. um, we wanted to reach out to The Villages. that’s very difficult to reach out to The Villages, because they already have so much, um, entertainment and what have you that it’s right there at their fingertips. And they don’t come to Orlando very much. We found that out through the United Arts [of Central Florida], uh, president at that time, Margot Knight, that it was very tough to get The Villages, and so we’ve made so inroads into that and we do have one person who brings people in from there, but it’s, you know—that is, —that is harder.
For us, we’re more sophisticated. Um, the area there was—you could do just about anything for, you know, nothing, because there were no regulations and no, you know—the city didn’t make ‘em do this and that. So when we started, we had a lot of legal and financial, um, and city rules and regulations that we had to comply with. And I would suggest to anybody who is gonna to do something like this: do not cut corners on your legal and your—those kind of responsibilities in— in getting your, um, work-up with your city, so that your—you know, you’re not gonna get, quote, “a free ride,” but, you know, you’ll have a good working relationship with the city, if you comply with what they want done. So…
Reisz
Um, how has how has Creative Sanford and Celery Soup—how has it evolved from when you first started the program?
Thompson
Oh my goodness. It has really evolved. When we first started we wanted to put on a show, Okay? One production a year and we were gonna—oh, someone was gonna give us a building. We’ve gotten a whole big song and dance of, you know, where you were gonna put it on. Well, we couldn’t find any place that would allow us to put it on. And the one theater that was in town, it was: number one, 500 seats 450 to 500 seats. And it had the fourth wall, which of course we didn’t know anything about, but it—the fourth wall was an invisible wall between the audience and the cast. and so, um, the community theater, one of the things that they require is that it is community involved and, you know, so it’s, um—it’s theater in the three-quarter is what we have. We don’t—we ended up renting a space.
So number one, we have rent now and it’s not a free space. And so when we rented it, we had to sign a lease. And when we signed a lease, that changed—I mean, it was like the before and the after. The before lease and after lease. [laughs] Because then we became a theater, and the theater has to support itself. So you can’t have one play in the fall and the spring maybe—two plays—and maintain a theater. You know you got your rental. You got all your utilities you’ve got to pay. So we had to have other shows.
So we first started with a group that wanted to have a home and they were called “The Princess Players.” And so they put on five performances during the year and, you know, we produced them. And so we did make money through that and were able to pay the rent, but so now after three years, since 2010, we made another big leap in that we realize that the theater was as important as Celery Soup. If we don’t have the theater, we’re in the same boat as everybody else, with searchin’ for a place to put your thing on and it’s gonna cost you a tremendous amount of money to be that little person who’s begging for a place to have a show. And after being in the theater, we didn’t want to go back to being in a gymnasium or someplace like that.
So we co-op the theater and we have three organizations that co-op with us and they own the theater for those periods of time. So that helps pay the rent. Phew, there’s something here. So that pays, you know—that gets our rent paid.
So then as time goes on, in the next year or two, we will be able to do some of the other things in our mission that we are not able to do now and, uh, the—the quantity that we would like to do and that helps other organizations that don’t have money that give them a place to showcase their art. Um, we’ve done art openings. We’ve done, uh, concerts. we’ve done, uh, with the Humanities Council—with the Dreamers and Schemers and they’ve asked us to come back in 2014 and do it again—standing room only—uh, we do The Holocaust with the Holocaust and Interfaith Council. So we’re making all these organizations that are becoming partners with us—that they’re doin’ it this year, that maybe next year, you know. and we’ll find places for ‘em to rent the theater to them for a minimal amount of money—cover the expenses—and they’re able to put something on and we’re able to provide the community with different kind[sic] of art— all different types of art.
So we’re doin’ Celery Soup now. They’ll be doin’, uh, Sleeping Beauty and Grease, and the co-op people are doin’ these things. One of them is a school, so they do things through the summer. and then in August, I believe it is, we’re goin’ to do Spam-A-Lot. So it will be our first time to do, um—produce a Broadway show. And it’s a Tony Award-winning and that’s what we want to do. So we’d like to do Spam-A-Lot one year and whatever the next one, as soon as the rights open up. We want to do the most recent, like I believe next year Wicked, off-Broadway—you know, from Broadway—will be open.
So this is a goal that we want to bring quality entertainment that people can afford to go to Wash—New York [City, New York] or Washington[, D.C.] or wherever. They can see really quality work, right here in Seminole County. They don’t have to go to Orlando. They don’t have to go to the arena, you know, and all that kinda thing.
Miller
Excellent. Um, so how do you collect the stories for the plays?
Thompson
Okay. Uh, we advertised. We had the Swamp Gravy Institute come down and we had a whole group of people come in and learn how to do the interviews. and then they’d ask their friends, “Can I interview you?” So it started out friends of the people who are to interview and moved out from there. We went, um, Serenity Towers, which at that time was called Bram Towers, and we did practice interviews with the older ladies and gentlemen and—and, uh, the—it was kind of a learning experience for everyone. And then we also, um, then put ads in the paper.
And when we first got started we did a thing called, uh, Talks from the Stalks, is what we called it—like a stalk of celery. And, uh, the newspaper[1] was nice enough that we would put in little excerpts from interviews that we’d done. And so they’d do a little blurb—we’d hopefully have a picture of the person that spoke—and then a little piece out of their story. And then it would be the quote advertisement call to tell your story. So that’s how— that’s how we got started, with just grass-roots, asking your friends, and moving out into the community.
And the most difficult part was being accepted by the black community, because there was a lot of, um, [sighs] negativity in both directions, in that, um, the black community was told that we were exploiting them by some people, who, for some reason didn’t understand what we were doin’. There’s a fly in here. Um, and then there was some on the other side that didn’t know how to relate to the black community. So it was a give-and-take and over the last six years.
This year we were invited to Hopper Academy. Um, this was the first year we had been so lucky to have two reunions” The Hopper [Academy] and then the Crooms Academy [of Information Technology] we’re going to do in December. So that’s the, that’s a real plus for us to be able to have made the inroads into the black community—that they trust us.
And, uh, if you know anything about Sanford, we’ve just gone through an awful trial[2] that brought up a lot of really bad memories from a lot of people—black and white. And, uh, it’s just, uh— it’s just a miracle that we’re such a good community that we overcame the outside pressures and didn’t succumb to anything that they wanted to [laughs]—they wanted us to have a riot or something. I don’t know what the media wanted, but, uh, they didn’t get it, because we’re not that kind of a town. We’re a good town. We’re—we’re working together.
And I think we have helped over the last six years to help the community realize that, you know, all that outside stuff that made ‘em appreciate that we really are a closely knit community, much closer than was realized and yet there’s still a lot of—a lot of energy and a lot of negativity that—that is like post-traumatic stress disorder. You know, it’s—you think of the worst thing that ever happened you think—you in your life. It flashes [snaps] to you immediately. You know exactly was the worst thing in your mind that ever happened to you. And that may be, this—this—this trial just triggered. That throwback to that worst feeling of inadequacy and—and negativity that they ever had. So, you know, we—we have to appreciate that and realize it.
And I’ve talked to people who have said, “Oh, why don’t they just get over it?” And I say, “What’s the worst thing that ever happened to you?” “Oh, that I lost my child,” or, you know—I mean that’s horrific. And I say, “Well, get over it.” Whoa, did they get mad at me? But, I say, you know, you’ve got to understand—and it was somebody that wanted to interview, but they didn’t have the empathy or the sympathy or the—the feelings that were needed to be an interviewer in this organization. So, when you’re doin’ this, I’d say to anybody: be sure that the people who are interviewers have an open mind and/or can keep their feelings under—you know, under the radar—under the cover.
Miller
Well, that brings up a question of when you’re asking the stories, what sort of themes—you ask for themes? Or how do you go about…
Thompson
Well, we’re…
Miller
Pitching the story.
Thompson
We started with a theme that was, uh, perseverance. And this was in 2010, and so our first story was about, uh, how Sanford and the community had overcome all sorts of natural, um, disasters. We had floods, and we had, uh, fires, and we had—the weather froze—and, I mean, uh, the weather was very cold and the fruit and vegetables and the trees froze. You know, so it changed the whole economy of things. The, uh, Navy left Sanford. Big, big, big, big problem. and Sanford’s overcome and actually gotten better from all the different changes that have happened. So that was what—it was perseverance, and we used as a sub thing, openin’ a can of worms [laughs]. So we—we just—“So what is,” you know, “What were you mad about? What did you not like? What did—what did ya get over on somebody?” You know, we had all kinds of questions that we tried to pull out of people that were deeper than just—“Who are you? Where did— where did you go to school and what do you do? “
Miller
Well, you did something like, uh, what you’re, um, talking about, perseverance and…
Thompson
Mmhmm.
Miller
You know, can of worms. How do you integrate that into the play?
Thompson
Well, that is what you have your playwright for. Now we’re, uh, setting up now and working with UCF with this, um—we have, um—May, um—what do ya call ‘em? With, uh, the keyword—keywords. So it might be perseverance. It might be love. It might be hate. it might be alligators or animals, or, you know—so, you’ll have keywords and the, um—um, the—the writers can key in that word, and then up comes the transcription from the play of that—of that—that might fit that story—may might fit that thing.
So, uh, next year’s going to be a comedy. and so we’re, you know—we’re gonna have a theme that’s going to be outta—we don’t know yet—outta, uh—that hadn’t been decided. Uh, that’s how you do it is you decide on your theme and you go to your playwright and say, “I want you to write about this theme and here are your keywords and you can go to all these different” —so maybe when we do an interview—the interview usually lasts an hour and a half, um—in that hour and a half, you might get 10 good stories or 10 stories, you know. It depends on how fast they talk or, you know, what—what you could pull out of ‘em. Some of ‘em in an hour you won’t get one that’s worth anything. But, uh, it might be able to use in backgrounds somewhere. And some of ‘em you could use every single story in, you know—that they tell. They’re all just—oh my gosh. This is great.
And we have several of those families that have done that and one is Uncle Dieter and one is Mr. [Elmer] Baggs. Both of them have just fabulous stories that they tell and we’ve used them in all of our productions. We’ve used stories from them and we go back, like you said—we go back to them to, you know, harvest more stories from them and ask different questions and—you know. Some of ‘em are just so funny. You know, that you, you forget that you’ve to get in to some of these power depth things too.
Reisz
Have you encountered any challenges working with a playwright that may or may not be from the Sanford area? is there any challenge to that?
Thompson
We—yes. We have had that challenge. Um, the one that the professional group that we used, they came and taught us a lot, and they were not from our area. So they had to do a lot of historical research at the libraries and, um, the historic society, so they got a lot of input there. Though it was very good for them, but also they would say things that we would say, uh, “Stop. We can’t use that. We—this—it’s not correct.” It’s, you know—or it’s too—it’s still too politically, um, explosive. That—that we don’t want to bring that to our town at this point. Later we’ll—we’ll delve into that, but right now we can’t do that.
And, uh, and one of ‘em is about—and it—it—it’s about, uh, ah, the [Mayfair] Country Club. And the—the playwright wanted to put that in there and I said, “We cannot put this in there. They are going to court. This is a lawsuit. It has not been [laughs]—you know, we can’t put something that’s an ongoing thing that maybe somebody would be a juror on that trial that saw our view of this. No, no, no, no, no. we can’t do that.” So it’s a perfect—it’s a perfect example of— of havin’ to help, you know, keep things in the right frame that we want to.
Reisz
Have you, um, always used, uh, a playwright to produce your plays and a professional director and have you guys done any of that on your own?
Thompson
We’re in the process now of doing that and we hired—we’ve hired, um, people who have professional—have had professional experience, but are for—we only use the professionals the first time, ‘cause that was like $125,000 and so we had to raise money for a long time to—to get that together. And that was the year that we signed the contract with the theater. So, you know, all of this and financial part of it all mixes together.
And you realize, once you start this, you are a theater. You know, you’re not just—unless you’re going to keep it on a low key, not very large, but if you want to go big, you’re going to have to be a theater. And we want to go big. We’ve—want to go to the [John F.] Kennedy Center [for Performing Arts] in—in, Washington. We’re already set to be at the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center. We’re working with Central Florida, uh, uh, Community Arts and they’re gonna do a Christmas that’s gonna be the same show, or similar to the same show, that they put on at Christmas at Disney. So it’s the candlelight, uh, service that you pay 80-90 dollars for and you’ll pay 10-20-15, you know, for this show here. Because we want community to be able to see what we’re doing. And, and, uh, that is—that’s part of our mission, to bring the community together.
Reisz
Um, so the professional—that’s the direction that you guys are going to go in going forward is using, uh, not necessarily, um, director per se, but definitely a professional playwright and things like that? you going to keep that?
Thompson
Well, no. we’ve brought the community on the playwright too. As a matter of fact, um, even I helped write [laughs] a little bit of the play that we’re doing right now. So I can’t call myself—I call myself an editor, not a playwright.
Miller
Well, that was one of the questions, that, um, regarding—do you have any employees?
Thompson
No. we’re—not yet.
Miller
You were talking about having some professionals...
Thompson
Uh uh.
Miller
So, um, you hire people as you need them? Or…
Thompson
The way they—yes. and the way that works, um, is that they would get a stipend. Um, you would be for, um, a director, you might pay 750-1000 dollars, something like that. It’s not big money. And they have to work for six or eight weeks before the show to get it ready. I mean, that’s a lot of work for, you know, that kind of money.
Uh, but a lot of community theater only pays the music director. Everybody else is volunteer. And we have thousands and thousands hours of volunteer hours, because we have no paid staff. We do have some[sic] paid artist, but not any paid staff. And nobody and—none of the actors are paid.
Miller
So you draw your expertise from the community also?
Thompson
Right. and that is a lucky thing that we have. That we have so much theater and, um, entertainment in Central Florida, and people who want to do theater. And they’re tied into day to day jobs that, um, you know, stifle their creative—and, and they do it for free. They do it for the love of theater.
Which I didn’t understand. I’m a businessperson. I came out of, you know, owning my own business for many, many years and my husbands a, uh, CPA [Certified Public Account] and ran an insurance company. And, oh my gosh. You know, everything is the bottom line kiddo [laughs]. So that’s kinda where I fit in. And t’s a little difficult for me to learn and having to learn. And most of the other people on the [Executive] Board are businesspeople. And they—it’s—it’s—it’s somethin’ to learn how to do this.
Miller
Well, what—you brought up the board. What role does that—the board play?
Thompson
Uh, the board makes the decisions on where the money goes, and—and where the fundraisers and, um—we do all the—all the grunt work that has to be done. We do the marketing. We do the, uh, advertising. We do the, uh, um—um, the Celery Ball, which is our main fundraiser.
We reach out to all community to—to get the word out and speak to groups and make connections wherever we can with the politicians, in, uh, um—you know, just have to reach out to every single facet. And it’s—it’s—it’s a miracle. It’s wonderful. It is wonderful. And I love working this class that’s a very diverse class, with older, younger, men, women. It’s great. You know, I going to learn so much from you all [nods].
Reisz
How, um, how is—how is Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, how have—how have you been successful in achieving your goals?
Thompson
Well, we’ve put on three shows. Yes. We’ve brought in community who have done playwright—playwriting—who have done music, who have done directing, that are from the community, that were paid a small stip—small stipend. And, um, you know, this is—this is the goal. is to bring the community together. We’ve brought people together who would have never have met.
Um, one lady who’s a very prominent, uh, poet, and she was in our show and she helped write a little bit of it. And, um, she was afraid of one the—of one of the people in the show. It was a young black guy and she was an older black lady, but she wasn’t raised in any of the—so she had a whole generational plus economic—there wasn’t a reason to be afraid of this young person. But she was—she was fearful. And so she really learned. And the—and the young person learned too. How to be more respectful and so that’s—that’s a goal is—you know, I think people call it bullying and all of that, but it’s really—it’s learning how to love each other and work with each other, and um, and blend into to, uh, international, you know, family.
Reisz
You mentioned earlier that there was a couple of things that, um, you hadn’t achieved. You know, you want to do more outreach with other community groups and things like that?
Thompson
Right.
Reisz
Is there anything else you—that Creative Sanford would like to do, but you haven’t been able to do yet?
Thompson
Oh, yes. We’d like to, um—we’d like to have a performing arts center. and we have talked to, uh, Congressman [John L.] Mica about that. um, preliminary, stages, of maybe having an arts council—not an arts council. We have the Seminole Cultural Arts Council, but um, to work with them with Creative Sanford to have our theater in a building, to have uh, um, uh, galleries in the theater, and have gift shops, and have, uh, study areas, and training areas, and studios. I mean, we’ve got a big group of ideas and that would—that would involve all the arts. And that’s one of the things that, um, is real—real difficult to get off the ground on no money. So that’s where you’re going to look for federal grants and that’s where you need your politicians to help you. And Seminole Cultural Arts Council and ourselves are working together to, uh, work with Congressman Mica and—and see if we can get one in Seminole County. You know, there’s a lot people, there’s a lot of money in Seminole County. It’s all going south. So we want to bring some of it back to Seminole County and let them realize that, not only are we a bedroom place, but also a great place to—to just enjoy life and make your whole—whole area more livable.
Reisz
Um, why is it important—in particular in Sanford, of course—but why is it important that these plays are produced by the community for the community?
Thompson
Well, that goes right back to, um, people learning each other, meeting each other, uh, getting together, and becoming friends and, um, meshing as a team. And they go out when—when we have done this, um, the group says, “Hey, I know a place that we need to go.” So emails go back and then we just get together, we go out, maybe put on a performance or—not a whole show—but do vignettes, maybe do a little bit of Uncle Dieter maybe do a little bit of, um, Elmer Bags. Just, you know, somethin’ funny or, er, poignant, or somethin’ like that.
We’ve done one called Generations,where the woman tells the story of how her family came from Africa and, you know, where they landed, and you know, how her history came about, and now she’s the last one in her line. And she says—at the end, she says, “Who will remember me? Will you?” And it just—oh, it just gives me cold chills right now. It’s just—it just tells people—opens their eyes and minds and hearts to, you know, what’s going on in the rest of world and how other people are feeling and, um, we always want to do more of that.
Reisz
Uh, you had mentioned earlier that—that the—that Creative Sanford and Celery Soup in particular had been really well received by the community?
Thompson
Yes.
Reisz
Um, how have you integrated community feedback into your projects and the things that you’re doing, besides just the interviews?
Thompson
Well, that is—that is one of the big things that we do. When we have the play and getting it ready, okay? We have a day, that we have—invite all the community to come to the theater and we do a run through of the play. And if they have feedback, “Oh that—that story wasn’t there. That story is over on Eleventh Street.” “Oh, this is wrong,” or “I don’t like this,” or, oh—they don’t laugh or, you know, they think something’s offensive. And we take that all into consideration. We’re very much attuned to what—it’s like what we tell the playwrights, sometimes we say, “Hey. Something we already know politically you can’t do that. They’re already in a—they’re already in a lawsuit.” But it is the same thing with other peoples’ feelings. And, um, we had one lady who got up and said she loved this part and the other lady got up and said that, “This isn’t the way it was where I was.” And it was complete opposite, so it was like, “Okay. Well, we’ll tell this story here and let’s interview you and get your story for the next time.”
So it’s—you know, we’re going to tell our stories as much as we can, but we want to—we want to be fair to everybody, but that is what we do. That’s part of the community—that we learned from the professionals. It’s that you have—when you start your cast, you—you have a day that you talk about, um, being compassionate and—and working with your other cast members and all of that sort of thing. And, um, that kind the way it starts and then, you know, we get this real tight group going and people know you now.
For me, see, I am known as the “ticket lady,” because I was always down there working the tickets and, you know, all this. They didn’t know I was president. they didn’t care who I was. I was the ticket lady. That’s the one they saw every night. But now they’re seeing me in a completely different role, because I’m in the play. And I have just a small—I have three small parts, but, you know, one of ‘em is absolutely just as silly as all get out and so they’re seeing, “Oh, the ticket lady does something besides” [laughs], you know, “sell the tickets. She might have some other good things that she can do.” So they’re seeing me in a different light and I think we see everybody in a different light. That—that whatever they perceive themselves to be, we’re seeing them in a different, more human light.
Miller
Well you’ve been with the project from the beginning, um…
Thompson
Just about.
Miller
Well, what—what are your biggest surprises about this?
Thompson
Oh, all of it. All of it. I had no idea how much work it was gonna be, how much fun it was gonna be, how enlightening it was gonna be. It’s just been—it’s just—it’s been like [sighs] renewed youth of somethin’. You know, you’ve thought, Oh, well, my identity is a restaurant owner. This—I’m the Rib Ranch, you know. Well then you retire and I got all involved in this and—and, uh, now I feel like, “Well, hey. This, this is rejuvenated me.” and, you know, put your brain in gear again and you have all these new goals, because I’d already completed all my goals. I was the best restaurant that sold barbeque in Seminole County and, you know, where do you go from there? So this was a new goal and set new things. So age never matters. Grandma Moses became famous in her 80s, so maybe I’ll become famous in my 70s [laughs].
Miller
Ah, what are some of the challenges in creating and maintaining a project like Celery Soup?
Thompso
Financial. There you go. That’s the bottom line. That’s the big problem, is getting’ the money. Yup.
Miller
Well, um, you mentioned fundraisers.
Thompson
Mmhmm.
Miller
And you have a Celery Ball.
Thompson
Right.
Miller
Do you want to describe that a little bit and some of the other fundraisers?
Thompson
Okay. What we’ve done—and, of course, this has evolved too. When we first started we had the Celery Ball, we had a king and queen. And the king and queen raised money—the king and queen candidates raised money—and, um, the first year we raised over $30,000. The second year about $30,000. The third year about $25,000. And the fourth year $10,000. Okay. economy. There you go. The economy’s going down, people didn’t have money to do all this, so that next year it was—we had a lot of silent auctions. We did not have, and we’re not having this year, a king and queen.
So we feel like—okay. We’ve kind of burned that out. it’s got a life of about four years and then you’ve got to go to something else. So we’ve moved the play—we’ve moved it to a different location. It’s gonna be a The Great Gatsby themed, so it’s gonna to be ‘20s-‘30s. Gonna be a lotta fun and, uh, um—and we have silent auction and trips and things like that, that we’re gonna be putting out to—to raise money instead of having—it was real easy when you had kings and queens and they’re all out having fundraisers and, you know, they’re doing all the work and you’re raking in the money. But it doesn’t work that way. It doesn’t work that way for the whole thing.
Miller
Alright, um…
Reisz
[inaudible]
Miller
Yeah, uh, what are, um, some of your production costs? And in that the price of your tickets and stuff?
Thompson
Mmhmm. okay. We price our tickets at $15—well 20 and 18 at first—and then we moved it down to 15 and 12. And, ah—again, it’s to meet the mission of bringing things and the quality—best quality we can—to the community. And these are bad times. I don’t know how you guys are seeing it, but, you know, everybody is working one or two, you know—working extra jobs. Still not, you know, cuttin’ it with the way things are going with businesses, where they’re cutting people’s hours back. “Oh, we’re only going to give you 26 and we’re never gonna give you more than 32, so you can’t be a full-time employee, so we won’t have to pay you benefits.” Da, da, da, da, da.
So we look at all of that and, uh, we decided on our price, and because we’re not usin’ the professionals. We’re back—we give just the small stipend—we do a production, is about 10,000, mkay? Is what it costs us to put on a production. and a lot of it is borrowing from different places in the community. Oh, and now that we’re a co-op we can say, “Oh, do you have some lights we can borrow?” Whereas we may have had to spend 10,000 on lights the first year, which we did. We had to rent ‘em. That, you know, now we can get lights and—as a matter of fact, we just had two people who gave us lights just in the last week. So, you know, we’re getting the lights—we don’t still have as much lighting as we need, and that’s one of the things that we’ll get a grant to help us get lighting and sound equipment and, you know, these kinds of things that we need. But, um, yeah. that’s it. Financial.
Reisz
Um, much of what Celery Soup has been doing is preserving the history of and the stories of Sanford.
Thompson
Right.
Reisz
How are you preserving the legacy of Celery Soup and Creative Sanford itself?
Thompson
Well, we have two ways. Uh, Alicia [Clarke] at the, um, Sanford Museum has asked us for copies of everything. So they’re going to archive the beginnings and all of our—as time goes by, they’ll do it. And so I’m keeping double records of, you know, two pieces of paper and so we’ll keep one and give one to her. And of course, we’re expecting that a lot of our archiving is going to go up on RICHES, so we’ll have that as part of our archival process.
And we, um—you have to have a disaster program, you know, and so we have disaster programs and we have things backed up with—on the flash drives—or we have them backed up on secondary computers. We have, um, fireproof safes that we keep things in. and we keep things off, um—out of the office. I don’t—I can’t think of what the word is. but somewhere else that, um, we keep things—the financial things and the historic things—um, backed up. So that’s how we have to do it. And—and the things like this, I’m really happy that if anything happened to this little dress, um—this was the dress that was worn by the little two and a half year old little girl, who was in our very first production—Kalayla. and, um, so definitely want pictures of that. And that’s—that’s an archival thing. If this rotted, we wouldn’t have it. So…
Miller
Okay. um, how do you keep the community engaged in Celery Soup, uh, especially long-term?
Thompson
That’s a problem. You have to keep moving and especially when we have to look two ways: the economy and wearing yourself out, you know, with asking people over and over again for help. And, uh— so the engagement—we just try to broaden and not to go back to the same wells every time. That if there’s 54,000 people in this town, and if 2,000 people are helping us, we need to get to the next 2,000 and the next 2,000, and the next 2,000. And we’ve reached, um,—as a matter of fact, just last week we were given a check for $250 from an organization that had never helped us before. So here we are. We’re getting into that outer ring and so we’ll just, slowly but surely, we’re just gonna reach out all through the whole area and get some of these people.
Mercedes[-Benz] helped us and then they kind of backed—backed away with what they were doing and so we’re going to different places to make this thing work. And we’re on David Maus’ [Toyota’s] jumbo-tron out there, which we’ve never been on there before and so, you know, that’s a first for us. So we just keep moving ou.t and we’ve never had any kind of TV advertising or never had any TV that supported us, and so this year, uh—this 2014, we’re really gonna put a push on getting sponsors of, um, in kind or whatever we can get from the, uh, major stations. We’ve had radio. We’ve had, um, um, public and NCR[3] and public broadcasting, but we want to get more into the mainstream too.
Reisz
Um, I know that we are getting tight on time, so we have one last question that we’d like to ask you, before we release you.
Thompson
Okay. Mkay.
Reisz
Uh, but what advice would you give another community thinking about beginning a similar project?
Thompson
The advice that I would give them is to contact everybody that has ever done one that you can find and ask them the questions that you’re asking. How do you do it? How much did it cost? We had a group that came in and asked us those questions and we answered them and, uh, and it was very interesting. We had—they came down and visited us and it was a very interesting time.
But, um, whatever the people tell you it’s going to cost, figure it’s going to cost at least 50 percent or a third to 50 percent more, okay? It’s much more expensive than you think it’s gonna be. Uh, some people think, “Oh, well everything be given to us.” and that’s what we were told” Oh, people would just reach out to you and they’re gonna give you this and they’re gonna give—let me tell ya. in a big market like this, they don’t do that. Maybe in very small towns, yes. You can get that kind of immediate help, but in a big, big area like we’re in it’s not the same process. And that’s where we differ with Swamp Gravy too, in that, you know, we have a very different financial field back and forth there.
So, yeah. It’s, um— it is—it’s mainly financial, legal. Be sure if you write contracts, if you go with professionals that, you know, you get a good tight that you’re protected and safe. And we went to an entertainment attorney and had her look over the contract and make changes and things to protect us a little bit better. So those are the things that you’ve got to have.
Reisz
Well thank you very, very much. We greatly appreciate it. Um, we really appreciate it. And then we’ll probably come up with some other questions. If you think we missed anything, let us know. We’d be happy to ask about it.
Thompson
[laughs] Okay.
Miller
And we…
Reisz
Okay, alright. Here we go. So I’m going to do a little intro, uh, that—I am Autumn Reisz and I am interviewing David [C.] Grace this morning, and we’re gonna talk about, um, his experiences and work at the Student Museum in Sanford, um, as a Master Gardener and also a docent, and then—so if you want to start with telling us where you grew up, and went to school, and—and how you ended up here in Florida.
Grace
Okay, uh, how I wound up in Florida goes back in history. I am from Wichita, Kansas, where I was born in 1942. Went to, uh, high school there at Wichita [High School] East. One of my close buddies was [Robert] “Bob” [Michael] Gates…
Reisz
Nice.
Grace
Uh, the Secretary of the Defense, formerly. Went to Wichita State University, graduated, unfortunately, four years later. Uh, I didn’t think I was going to make it. I say “unfortunately,” because I graduated with a business emphasis in accounting, and I was also commissioned as a Second Lieutenant United States Army in 1965. So I tried to work on a Master’s Degree, and that didn’t work too well. So I found myself going on active duty and Redstone Arsenal in [Huntsville,] Alabama—missile command. So I was a missile maintenance officer for three years. Then I, uh, then I decided to retire early, after three years. I interviewed with a number of companies, and, uh—Firestone [Tire and Rubber Company], um, uh—some other companies in the Midwest, but then somebody offered me a job in Fort Myers, Florida.
Now my connection to Florida goes back to 1914. My dad was born here in Okahumpka in Lake County. Uh, my grandparents—my grandmother grew up in a little town called Bloomfield, Florida, which no longer exists. It’s on the south side of, uh, Lake Harris—close to Yalaha. My dad was named after, uh, the kaolin pit. Kaolin is a white chalk used as a filler in paper, china, that sort of thing. So, uh, things did not work out, eh, the price of kaolin went south, so the family had to move to Central Georgia, where the Kaolin was better quality. Dad decided in, uh, about 1937, he didn’t want to be a pig farmer, or be in Central Georgia, where it was just a mining town. He went to aviation school and was later hired by Walter Beech—Beech Aircraft[1] in Wichita. So, uh, that is where my mom comes in and, uh—so my, uh—so, uh, that’s where my life started in 1942.
Now, you know, we’d always go to Grandma’s house in Central Georgia every year, until I was 17 years old, and from there, we’d always venture down to Florida. So I knew something about Florida and I guess that one of my decisions about going to work for United Telephone [Company of Florida] in Fort Myers. I’ve been here in Florida basically since 1970. I followed the purchases of, uh, Florida Telephone Corporation in Ocala. So I was there in Ocala for a few years, came here in 1978, with the purchase of Winter Park Telephone [Company], and, uh, now we know United Telephone has the, uh, the company that is Sprint [Corporation], and the other company is right now called CenturyTel. So that’s how I got here.
Reisz
Nice. That is quite the journey [laughs]. So how did you become involved with the Sanford museum?[2]
Grace
Uh, when I retired, and I was at the regulatory with the phone company, the regulation went away. The telephone company was deregulated. Uh, so in 1997, at the age of 55, they said, “The regulation has gone away and so are you.” So I retired and, uh, [clears throat] one of the things that I wanted to do was be a—a gardener. Moving to Florida and being a gardener—you have to understand that things don’t grow like they do in Kansas. So, um, I guess I wanted to be a Master Gardener. So I took the 14-week course, which is one day a week—essentially from 9 to 3. After that time—time you become a Master Gardener. So the day that I graduated from being a Master Gardener, I also went back to work with a, uh—as a CFO [Chief Financial Officer] for the Florida Safety Council. So I gave that up after three years. Now, what was beautiful about, um—about workin’ at the Central Florida Safety Council, being a Master Gardener—which requires 35 hours a year of volunteer service—every last Saturday of the month, here at the Student Museum was an opportunity to volunteer in the gardens. The gardens started here in about 1997-98 time frame. So over a period of three years, I was up here once a month to get my 35 hours a year, and after that, I just kinda hung around.
Reisz
Um, can you tell us a little bit about the teaching gardens? Um, and how they are used to teach the students?
Grace
[clears throat] Okay, well, when I retired the second time, I was asked to come in and be a docent, and, uh, I used to teach the majority of all the rooms here, but I did fall in love with Native American history [clears throat]. The individual that started the gardens was, uh, Walter Padgent, who, at that time, owned Higgins House [Bed and Breakfast], just up the street here, and he was also in the same class as I was for the Master Gardener organization. So, uh, being here, at the—at the Student Museum, I kind of fell in love with [clears throat] Native American history, and, uh—and Walt Padgent—that’s how the gardens started—was he had this vision of—and he used to be, I believe, a pioneer docent. So he wanted something out here—immediately right outside the windows here—uh, where the first grounds of a vegetable garden, or pioneer garden, which allowed the fourth grade students to come here, dig a trench, plant their beans, cover it up, water it, and end the exhibit part outside.
Couple of years ago, I challenged a lady—and I didn’t actually challenge her. I just said to her one day, “Wouldn’t it be nice to have a three sisters garden out here?” The three sisters—corn, uh—three sisters garden are corn, beans, and squash, and it, uh—it’s part of the—we gave up painting faces, which was about a 10-minute mission there, in the Native American [Exhibit: Life in an Ancient Timucuan Village] room, and what else are you going to do with the 10 minutes? I said, “Well, let’s take them out to the gardens.” ‘Cause out here, in the teaching gardens, we did have the three sisters garden. We showed the kids. It’d be surprising that maybe some kids don’t what corn looks like, other than what’s on the breakfast cereal box, and of course, the three sisters are complimentary to each other. They give a balanced diet to the Native Americans. You—you get your carbs from corn, you get your protein from the beans, and you get a well-balanced, nourished diet from squash.
So, uh, we also have, out here, the coontie plant, which became a major industry here in Florida, because it was a source of, um, uh, starch. Everybody needs a li’l starch. The coontie plant would provide that starch, and it became an industry, uh—it was an industry up until 1909. Up here in DeLand, Florida, a company manufactured coontie starch. So I show the kids that, because the Native Americans used that. Uh, it is a poisonous plant, uh—with the red berries. It is kinda common. Nowadays, it’s become more popular in the local landscape.
Then we move on over to a beautyberry—the American beautyberry bush—which at this time of year, has some really beautiful purple berries on the stems, and we tell ‘em that grandma used to make jelly from those. Uh, Native Americans can use that as, uh, some—sometimes they say there’s a little color in there. It could get used for body paint, or ‘bout the best use I know of is it’s a good insect repellent.
Uh, we also stop at the herb garden, and, uh, most kids don’t—they understand what an herb might be, um, but they probably have never seen one, like rosemary. Uh, I try to show ‘em like four different kinds of herbs: rosemary—aloe that we use for sunburns—thyme—you could use for casseroles and soups—and there’s another—there’s another one out there I throw in there if it is out there in the herb garden.
We go around and talk about the sassafras tree, and then lastly I take them to yaupon holly. We have a weeping yaupon holly here in our gardens, and, uh, the botanical name for that is ilex vomitia, and it doesn’t take too long for the kids to understand there’s something about the word vomitia. Uh, the yaupon holly was used as a ceremonial tea—a drink. Every morning, the chief and the elders of the tribe or branch would partake of yaupon holly tea—or we know it today—they called it “black drink.” It’d make you—it’d make you sweat profusely. Uh, I’ve told it has six or seven times more caffeine than a cup of coffee. It’ll keep you awake for 48 hours. So the hunters of the tribe would drink this. Uh, drink all they could get, throw up which was good luck. Uh, and they’d go out to the hunt and they would—would, uh, be in the stand—the steer dan—deer stand for 48 hours, and, uh, that was the hunt.
Reisz
Wow. How so—do you do plantings that are seasonal here? Do you change as the cycle goes around? Or do you try and continue to keep the same basic things around to teach the students?
Grace
Um, we replenish, like the herbs, and we plant, of course, the three sisters garden. We didn’t have irrigation here, until about 2003, which meant before that, uh—that in the summertime, we just covered up the gardens with plastic, go home, and don’t come back until September.
Reisz
Oh.
Grace
Now we have irrigation year-round. Um, so it’s all up to the climate and, uh, we’ve been a mode for the last several years, probably since about—since 2005, and that mode is—is what you’d basically call “maintenance.” Maintaining what we have because of the, uh, things that we heard about the school’s gonna close up. It’s gonna be sold, and some Master Gardeners even thought about coming here and digging up the plants, and moving back to the extension, which to me is called trespassing. So what’s good about the gardens right now, we’ve maintained them. Haven’t done a lot of planting, other than what we do here for the students: the vegetable garden, the herb garden, uh, butterfly garden. We kinda keep up on that, but the other plants and the other gardens, like our shade garden, subtropical garden, our wildlife habitat, is going wild and is flourishing, and we can stand back and trim and prune, as necessary.
Reisz
Yeah, do you have to do any extra maintenance with the roses or anything like that, other than regular pruning, or do you just let them be?
Grace
You’d be surprised that the roses we have here, which are maintained by the Orlando Area Historical Rose Society. Uh, they’re the ones that set it up back in 1997. They are what we call “antique roses.” They have very little response to, uh—in other words, they don’t get black spot. They don’t get diseases. Um, you can get an antique rose of any size, any color. We have one rose out there, which is probably about 15 feet in diameter—about 8 feet tall. Beautiful rose—pink rose. Ah, we have the other roses that crawl on the ground, like a ground cover. Uh, the rosarium that takes care of that rose garden right now is the president of that society. So he’s an expert on roses, and, uh, while a homeowner might not think that, uh, they need a lot of care. I don’t really care. I have some in my own yard. They don’t get a lot of care. So they’re by themselves. They’re happy, but, uh, as an exhibit here, he comes out maybe two or three times a year. Gives ‘em—gives ‘em a good heavy feeding of fertilizer, uh, in the fall, we try to round up at least 20 bags. I mean big bags of leaves—oak leaves—and spread them in the rose garden, as well. So is there a lot of maintenance? Not really.
Reisz
Yeah.
Grace
We just make ‘em happy.
Reisz
Yeah, make them happy. Um, I saw online—I looked up, um, the Master Gardeners, and it—there’s a newsletter called The Seminole County, uh, Green Thumb.
Grace
Yup.
Reisz
It mentions that people can stop in and ask questions of the Master Gardeners.[3] Do you get a lot of, like, adults coming in to ask you questions about planting—Florida planting—anything like that? Or they just come in and see the gardens?
Grace
Especially they just come in on special occasions, and, uh, hoping that UCF [University of Central Florida] here—that we get people to—when they come in the front door, you want to get them to go out the back door, ‘cause that’s where the gardens are, and, historically, uh, people that have come and visited the gardens do ask questions, but, uh, sometimes getting traffic back here to the garden has been difficult.
Reisz
Yeah. Possibly that will change, since they changed the parking situation as well, since people have to see the garden…
Grace
Right, right.
Reisz
Before they go in. Um, how much time do you devote to the gardens now? I know you had said that you were doing, like, one Saturday a month to get your yearly. Is that the same? Are you doin’ more time? Are you doin’ little less time?
Grace
Historically, we found out, over the years, that people get more active on the weekends.
Reisz
Yeah.
Grace
Especially at this time of year when there are a lot of festivals going on, and this is the best time to come out to the gardens and work. So, uh—and it’s difficult to get volunteers to come here. The Master Gardeners—the main membership is probably about 40—maybe 50—members, and a lot of times they take the classes for one or two purposes. The guys come out—maybe they run a landscaping business—they want to become a Master Gardener and have that in their portfolio, so they can sell their services. We have a lot of ladies that come out. The last class of 24, uh, attendees—23 of them were women, and so the odds are in my favor, because, uh, today, if maybe it was a little warmer, I’d have at least three ladies here on Tuesdays. So, uh, we quit having the Saturday end of month work day. It just was not working out. People were not coming out. They’re more active with families. So, uh, I try to designate, as each graduating class comes along. I tell ‘em come on out, get interested in a project, uh, tell me when you can come out, and, uh, Tuesdays have become a favorite day. Uh, trying to get Thursday and maybe another day. Some people come out here on a—on a monthly basis. The ones I associate with on Tuesdays, come out on a weekly basis. We spend anywhere from—uh, right now, a day like today, we could work out here for six hours and think nothing of it. When the church bells ring across the street at noon, I call it quits.
Reisz
Okay, so we talked a little bit earlier, um, about you being a docent with the museum. Um, when did you become a docent?
Grace
I was asked to come inside, uh, to be a docent in the year 2001, after I had retired the second time.
Reisz
And then you said—you had mentioned you, um, you had taught the Native American room. Did you teach any of the other rooms?
Grace
I’ve taught—one of my favorite ones—which I can get emotional about sometimes when I taught it—is Grandma’s Attic.
Reisz
Yeah.
Grace
Because I’m old enough to realize that, when I went as a young man—to grandma’s house or to a great aunt’s house that lived down in Florida or Kansas, uh—you still had to go to the well to get your water. The outhouse was out in the back. Uh, we tried not to take a bath, because basically a bathtub did not exist. So you get all those, uh, things lined up and you try to tell these kids, uh, how life was. In fact, the—teaching Native American history and pioneer history and Grandma’s Attic—which is about a 100 years ago—wasn’t that much different, and I taught the other rooms, as well.
Reisz
Yeah?
Grace
Geography [Lab: Where in the World Are We?]. Um, it was kind of interesting. When I came here, uh, my life as a young man, uh—going into adult—it kind of fits. I was in accounting for 30 years. I did so, because that’s how you make money. Dad says, if you want to make a decent salary, uh, be an accountant—be in business. That didn’t really fit like a glove.
Uh, my dad and I used to look for Indian artifacts in—in Central Kansas, ever since I was five years old. Uh, we were members of the rock society, Wichita Gem and Mineral Society for, uh—I quit paying dues about five years ago. Uh, so I’ve been involved in archeology, paleontology, minerals—you name it. Uh, I fit here.
Reisz
Yeah.
Grace
And, uh, I love Native American history, ‘cause I’ve been involved in that. We may have talked on the phone about—I was a member of Indian Guides. For Indian Guides, you’re a Cub Scout in Wichita, Kansas. It’s about Native American history. For Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow. So all my life, in the summertime, we used to go out to the camp—Boy Scout[s of America] camp, every week, ‘cause we were a special troop. We had, uh, costumes, you might say, and we danced for the audience. So, uh, Native American history been a part of my life, even though I am 50 percent German and 50 percent English and Scottish.
Reisz
Um, was the Native American room your favorite room to teach? Or was Grandma’s Attic your favorite room to teach?
Grace
Native American is probably one of the favorite rooms to teach. Grandma’s Attic coming in second. Ah, [Turn of the Century] Classroom[: Lessons from 1902] coming is third. Pioneer [Pioneer Exhibit: Before the Settlement of Sanford] room is fourth, I would say. Geography, uh—it comes in fifth, and, uh, when I started here the coordinator—the program coordinator—she was the one that taught geography. So the other three rooms I—I used to teach the classroom. It was okay. It takes a special person. We had a special person, by the name of Florence. Uh, she is a little older than I am, but she knew how teachers were in 1902, and she demanded that same, uh, discipline. So that’s kinda cool. Pioneer, uh—since I’m not a native Floridian, I don’t really understand that, until I read that book Remembered Land or [A] Land Remembered. I could really find out something about the pioneers of Florida. So, uh, being a collector of artifacts, uh, since I was a kid—we’re talking about 60 years plus. I’ve donated artifacts, fossils to the museum, so that’s where I fit.
Reisz
Mmhmm. Do you have a particular, like, favorite teaching tool with the kids in any of the rooms? I know, that, um, for a lot of the docents—like especially with Grandma’s Attic or the Native American room—they’d have one particular artifact that they really used—liked to use to teach the children. Did you have anything particular like that?
Grace
Well, one of the things that kids would always come and ask, the number one question: “Is this real?” So it kinda irritated me for some time, so I said, “Don’t ask me that question. I’m going to tell you it’s real, even though it’s not.” A lot of the materials we’ve had here—they’re not exactly real, of course. You don’t expect things to be real that go back to about 1500, but in my collection, we used to collect a lot of artifacts out of Central Georgia, which are approximately three to four to five thousand years old, and I bring those with me. Sometimes, I’d wear pants that have the mini pockets and I’ll fill the pockets up with anything from shark teeth, Uh—I’ve brought in a couple of meteorites that I found in Texas in a parking lot that was a gravel parking lot. Just so happens to be something I picked up, and it was determined by the University of Kansas to be a meteorite. I bring that in and I pass it around.
Uh, sometimes I, uh, go out bounds. Sometimes, the, uh, program director sometimes gets a little—little irritated with me. Sometimes I go out of bounds, and—and teach some things and touch on some things that, uh, they don’t want me to teach, but I—I bring artifacts. Uh, that’s one thing I liked about Grandma’s Attic. Before UCF came, it was all cluttered. It looked like an antique store. So just about everything I looked at or touched is a memory. So it’s kinda like the same thing with Native Americans, even though I didn’t go back to 1513. It’s about artifacts, pottery, uh—I’ve brought in pottery shards of different designs, and asked the kids, “Well, how did this pattern get on this piece of pottery?” It was done with a paddle. It was done with pine needles. So I’ve tried to bring in the real stuff, and I use the artifacts—the things in the room—uh, to get their attention. I like the “wow” factor. I like to challenge the kids, that when they leave they might go to the library, and grab a bunch of Native American books, and go home and read ‘em, ‘cause I think it is the most fascinating history about how that—how it’s all about survival. The hunters, the male [inaudible], the female [inaudible], okay? That was survival. The lady had to fix the guys buttons. The guy had to fix his meals. I ask the kids, “When you go home, who do ask—who do you ask in your family what’s for supper? Do you ask your dad?” Probably not, ‘cause he’s in the living room. He’s being a warrior. His face is painted orange on one side, blue on the other side, and he’s got a big bowl of popcorn. Mom, she’s slaving in the kitchen fixing your dinner for you. That’s the person you go and ask. So nothing’s changed over—since 1500. The men are still hunters—still warriors. Mom does everything else.
Reisz
So what is it like teaching fourth graders? How do you keep the children focused and—and engaged in what you’re telling them?
Grace
Well, sometimes that’s interesting. It depends upon, the, uh, school that comes, unfortunately. I used to have a list of—Okay, this, uh—this school’s coming this week. Okay, I’ll bring some of my artifacts.‘Cause I—‘cause I know, in the past they—I can get their attention real quick. Some of the other schools—little bit differently. So I just go down the middle of the road, and stick with the subject matter, ‘cause some of the kids that come here, I—I extend myself. Um, some of the other students, I can almost figure it out, based on which elementary school comes. They’re about the same as last year. So sometimes the days are difficult. Um, you know, chaperones—I don’t know if I can say this on tape—but we have chaperones that like to chit chat, when I am trying to present my presentation. Sometimes, the teachers are down here looking at stuff we’re trying to sell in a rummage sale. So it’s kind interesting just to see as each group comes through. They’re all unique. They’re all different, and as a volunteer, uh, sometimes you have a problem with discipline. Can’t figure out how to do that. Sometimes, being an old codger like I am, uh, I’ve got in trouble a couple of times. In Grandma’s Attic, I point to the back and say there’s a blue outfit. Give some clues. I might say, you know, it was a Victoria’s Secret original. I’d say, Oops. I just stepped in it. ‘Cause it is a swim suit that goes back to 1907. Uh, okay. So I’ve been called down for that, but what the heck? I’m a volunteer.
Reisz
Yeah, is it hard to stay on, um—with the kids that you’re really engaged in, Um, I know you said you do go off script. Is hard to make sure you cover everything that is set out in the curriculum, while still covering the things you think are important?
Grace
I’ve been kind of a rebel the last few years. Um, I guess it is because when I first came on board, who taught me how to do this was the program director or the secretary. The secretary was very knowledgeable, because she was called upon numerous of times to do teaching. Secretary—yeah. Well, I gotta go teach that, close the door and, uh, ‘cause I’ve gotta go teach Grandma’s Attic or be a school teacher today. They’re the ones that taught me what to say, uh, and it continues today. I’ve gone through, I think, three program directors, and the same wording I heard—what I learned—specifically is still used today. I mean, we go outside and we meet the school bus, and talk about Romanesque revival architecture, and I’ve learned this since day one. You ask a student—you ask a class, “I wonder where Roman architecture comes from?” If a kid says, “Rome[, Italy],” okay. He gets a pat on the head. After 14 years, they still get a pat on the head. I mean, it’s just like going around telling a story from number one to number 20. I seem to stick with the idea that ,when a student gives a correct answer, give ‘em a pat on the shoulder—or, “You’re a straight A student today.”
Reisz
Do you have a favorite story about, um, either the gardens or, you know, being a docent at the Student Museum? Is there a favorite moment with a child or story with a child? Or even just, you know…
Grace
One…
Reisz
Working in an exhibit?
Grace
One of my favorite stories—again, this is something I don’t know if it’s unique to our education system. We used to have animals in, uh, the Native American room. We used to have a bobcat, and, uh, I’d tell the story when things were getting kind of slow. Or, you know, this is—again, being kinda like a rebel—I’d tell the legend of how the bobcat got its, uh, spots on its fur. Well, he was chasing a rabbit one day, and, uh, the rabbit went into a tree trunk—a hollow tree trunk. Well, the rabbit knew he was gonna get caught, ‘cause here comes the bobcat. The bobcat knows he’s in there, and the rabbit tries negotiating. What am I going to do now? So he says, “I know you’ve got me now. So why don’t you just set this tree trunk on fire?” Sometimes, the kids ask, “Well, how does the bobcat set the tree on fire?” I just say, “Well, that’s for another time and I’ve got to keep this story kind of short.” So when he set the tree trunk on fire, smoke and sparks were billowing out of the top of the tree trunk, and, uh, all of the sudden the bobcat realizes that these sparks are landing on his fur. Well, he’s got to pay more attention to these little fires that are now appearing on his fur, and he loses attention of, well, you know, what happened to the rabbit. Now that the bobcat has all these spots on his fur, the rabbit is now gone. He’s on up the trail. He has escaped. “That his spots come from this story about 5,000 years ago.” So I think it is a kind of a cool story.
Reisz
Yeah, I think so.
Grace
It is legend. It’s[sic] stories. It’s, in some cases, superstition, and I’ve been—I’ve been careful to be—not to say a whole lot about superstition. It’s like our three sister garden is—is grown in a circle, and that circle is because they believed that there were higher frequencies or things out there in the universe that were focused down on a—on a circular garden. Same thing with a dunce cap. Sometimes—sometimes, I tell the kids that you won’t learn this when you go to the classroom, but the dunce class—the dunce cap that you will see in there was invented by Mr. [John] Duns [Scotus] in England in the 1700s. It was for a therapy of—of slow learners. Again, the dunce cap is in what form? A cone. So that cone focused down all this knowledge for you to absorb between your ears. Like, in the 1800s, of course, the dunce cap became a disciplinary method, but again, that’s going back to superstition.
Reisz
Mmhmm.
Grace
It’s common. You find it all over the place today. Go down to the local café, and underneath the counter you’ve got these little books that all about fortunetelling, uh, things you can do with your dog and get his emotions straightened out. Kinda cool.
Reisz
Very cool. Any other stories you’d like to share? About the museum? Your experiences here?
Grace
Well, you know, it’s—it’s, uh, somebody mentioned today that, since they did the tenting of the termites, that the place smells better. I said, “You know, I kind of miss that—what it really used to smell like,” ‘cause you can imagine, when you walk around here [clears throat] a lot of times, you’d say, If only the walls could talk. This building goes back to 1902. Sometimes, we—we don’t really tell the whole story. [coughs] Like, uh, what happened during the [Great] Depression years? What did the kids wear to school? I know most of the kids—or a lot of the kids—came to school barefooted. A lot of the girls wore the same—uh, their dresses looked the same. Why is that? That’s because their dresses were made by feed bags. Their mom sewed the—the feed bags. The lady down the street did the same thing. The girls came to school wearing basically the same thing, and you wonder, Well, you know, it must’a been cooler around here in Florida. Which to me, I’ve thought about, Why didn’t I move to Florida? If it wasn’t for air-conditioning, I know I wouldn’t be here. So it’s—it’s kinda cool. We’ve had visitors drop by that came here to school in the [19]50s, they relate to, uh—there was no air-conditioning. Uh, the railroad yard was just down the street belching out—the steam locomotives in the morning belching out smoke and soot and whatever comes out of locomotive stacks, and settled all over the city here. Imagine what, kind of—when—when you’re walking to school as a kid, you hear the school bell ring, I mean, it’s so cool.
Those are the kinda things—I like—this public history, because I forgot to ask my grandmother what life was back when she was a kid. So that’s what I like about public history. Reminds us to, uh, start asking questions about how life really was—not about dates, people, things. I don’t care about what— [Thomas Alva] Edison invented the light bulb. We have light bulbs, but it would’ve been nice to ask him, “What was life like in Fort Myers in 1900 or—er, 1900?” I don’t care about your light bulb. I want to know about your life. “How’d your friend [Harvey] Firestone get down here to Florida?” I mean, I’m still trying to find out—my relatives came from Bearaboo, Wisconsin, and settled in Lake County, which was—at that time, was Sumter County, in about 1870. How’d they get here? I have no idea. From Bearaboo, Wisconsin. They came here. Why? ‘Cause somebody said, “You’ve got a child with asthma?” “Yeah.” I had a great-uncle that had asthma. That’s why they moved to Florida. I still don’t know how they got here.
Reisz
Wow. Thank you very much. Um, we’ve covered everything that I wanted to ask about the gardens, and then your work as a—as a docent. Um, if there’s anything else feel free. If not, I think we’re all set.
Grace
I think that’s about it.
Reisz
Okay.
Grace
I really don’t talk about—or I generally don’t talk much at all [laughs].
Reisz
Well, I’m glad you talked to me. Thank you very much.
Grace
That’s why I am out in the garden, ya know?
Reisz
Yeah.
Grace
Dig a hole, fertilize[?] it, fill it in.
Reisz
Fill it in, yup.