Mikler
Well, the—in the early 19—around the 1900, there was a great immigration to America from Europe [clears throat], and my parents came to—as most Slovak immigrants came—they came into New York Harbor and then went wherever they could.
So they organized—the group organized what they called “the Slavia Colony Company.” And they sent a delegation to Florida—the company did—to find a location for a new settlement. A small group came to Florida and settled here.[1] And they settled here somewhere around 1911, and, um, most of those people were poor folks. They were used to farming, so they had farming on their mind[sic]. They knew how to farm better than most other things, so this is how the colony originated.
Now, the building we’re sitting in right now didn’t look like this then, but the first [St. Luke’s Lutheran] Church was built about 1925. This is it. I—I keeps[sic] coming back to this. You can’t separate our community from the church, ‘cause the church—the Lord was important to all, and—and that was—not that we were saints. We’re sinners like everybody, but the Lord meant something to us, and still does to us today.
The—the first settlers had difficulty finding a crop—a cash crop—that would be a money crop, you see? Uh, they tried different things, but not knowing the weather, soil conditions, and so forth, they made a lot of mistakes. There were disasters, and so it was not until the—I’d say the middle- to late- [19]20s when celery was introduced and celery became the big cop.
And just a case in point: this happened in the 40s. Judge [R. W.] Ware, the County Judge of Seminole County, spoke to the Oviedo PTA [Parent-Teacher Association], and this is some of what he said: he said, “Folks, you know, if—if all Seminole County was like the Oviedo community”—now, we’re talking about Oviedo, Slavia, Chuluota, and Goldenrod, and Wagner, the long—the—he said, “I’d be out of a job.” Now, what’s the moral to that? People did the right thing and crime was insignificant.
Well, believe it or not, when I was a teenager, my cousin had—a few people had automobiles. I remember getting the first [Ford] Model T, and I was about the happiest person in the world, riding on the back of that Model T. That wasn’t riding a wagon. It was different, but then later, as we grew up as teenagers, I remember we’d go and get a car from the [inaudible], and go to town, and park on the street, and watch people walk by. We’d buy us about 10 cents worth of bananas, which is about 15 or 20 pounds, you might say [laughs].
I remember when [Florida State Road] 426 was dirt, and going to Orlando, on a wagon, you got up early in the morning, and it would take all day to get to Orlando and back home before darkness, and that was some—some experience. There were no public restrooms. If you got thirsty, you had to carry your own water. It was just a different world. In fact, I remember between Winter Park and Orlando, there were very few homes. Lake Ivanhoe was a wooded lake. It was just woods there. [inaudible] water in[?] the horse on Lake Ivanhoe.
And some of you may not believe this, but you could go today in [inaudible] grocery store—the big one, you know? And they—the housewife—whoever was shipping—would take the list to the counter, and the storekeeper would take the order. If you wanted five pounds of sugar, he’d go the shelves, get five pounds of sugar, bring it back. “What else? Five cans of beans?” He’d bring that, and so that was sort of different from today, and then when Papa took us once a year to the Slemons [Department Store], the big store on Church Street, right on—off of Orange Avenue. Uh, Papa would tell Mr. [William Melville] Slemons, “Here’s the family. Dress ‘em up.” So we got our new shirts, pants, suit, cap, shoes, and all that, and that was quite an experience. The whole family went shopping. You see that today? I don’t think so.
Unidentified
[laughs].
Mikler
[laughs]. I think the worst influence we ever had in the history of the world is drugs—the cocaine, and this sort of stuff. This—I feel for kids, I feel for parents, ‘cause I know some of the finest people I know have had cases of that, and—and it’s hard—it’s hard—it’s a hard problem to face, but we must face it squarely, and most people in America—early America—immigrants and otherwise—had to do it [inaudible]—do it themselves. The government was not involved in these things. He said they took Bible and prayer out of school, and they gave prostitution, cocaine, and alcohol, and pornography. That’s how he started his sermon. Now, he was on the money, wasn’t he?
Well, one thing I—as a coach, I couldn’t stand—I don’t think I’d allow a player who put a helmet on with hair longer than girl’s hair, but that…
Unidentified
[laughs].
Mikler
I couldn’t stand [laughs]. I couldn’t—I couldn’t stand it. I’m afraid we’re coming to an age, where it’s almost me first. Case in point: when I was teaching, uh, I could ask boys to help move the piano or to help the school do a job, and I’d have volunteers coming. No one asked for any money. It was all voluntarily and they did it with a smile. The later years, it wasn’t so. They said, “Coach, whatcha payin’?” You know, that’s—that’s what we’re into today.
It’s hard to say what’s coming, but I can see a great change between, uh, family and community and state and nation. So the family unit— I’m afraid—and our modern civilization, uh—it’s a different—it’s a more difficult world to live in. The future, I hope will be good, but it just depends on how we are willing to discipline ourselves and—and accept absolutes. It’s easy to do wrong, it’s hard to do right, and we gotta make the choices. We have that choice.
[1] Oviedo, Florida.
Thorncroft
This is an oral history interview of Lars [D.] White. Interview conducted by Sarah Thorncroft at the Fire Administration and Emergency Management Office at 1934 County Road 419 West in Oviedo, Florida, on March the 27th of 2015. Our interview topics include growing up in Oviedo and the Oviedo Fire Department. Um, so will you just please state your name for me and explain where you were born and when?
White
Okay. Um, my name is Lars White.
Thorncroft
Mmhmm.
White
Uh, I was born in Winter Park Hospital, uh, November of 1960, and, uh, you want me—elaborate?
Thorncroft
Yeah.
White
Okay.
Thorncroft
When did your parents come to the area?
White
Okay, um, we relocated to Oviedo about 1968. It was pretty small town then. It was about 2,000 population—maybe a little less. A single traffic light, a lot of dirt roads, and Oviedo, in that era, was really known still for its agricultural beginnings and it was still a very active agricultural community, but it was on the cusp of development. A lot of that is a result of, uh, what was Florida Technological University and now the University of Central Florida, and as that campus began to grow and expand, and in its many offerings, we needed residential homes for people to, uh—to use that amenity of the collage. So that’s really what started changing Oviedo, to some degree, as well as, uh, there’s[sic] many historians that feel like the children of the original farmers recognized what a hard life farming is, and as the land became so valuable, uh, it became worthwhile to them to begin to sell the properties, and, uh, of course that turned into a lot of residential living units for our town. So that’s kinda the beginnings, I say, of Oviedo and its—its, uh, expansion to such a nice residential—or what we call it: “kids and cul-de-sacs.”
Thorncroft
So you were about eight years old when your family came to Oviedo. What schools did you attend when you were here?
White
Well, I had gone to, uh, St. Luke’s [Lutheran School], uh, for kindergarten, because it wasn’t offered at Lawton Elementary [School] at the time. Oviedo had just desegregated. They’d opened Oviedo High School about that timeframe. Uh, it was a very peaceful, uh, setting. There—there were not—there was no turmoil with it. Uh, it was a very smooth transition. Uh, I don’t recall any encounters or difficulties with that, and then I started, uh, first grade at Lawton Elementary—first through fifth grade—and then Jackson Heights [Middle School] sixth through eighth grade, and then Oviedo High School, of course, ninth through 12th grade. Graduated in 1979.
Thorncroft
What are some, um, school memories you have, if any?
White
[laughs] Well, [coughs]I do reminding[sic], uh—remind myself of riding the bus to school, and the busses of that, uh, era were a little bit different than they are today. Today, they’re, uh, air-conditioned and very comfortable [laughs]. I can remember very hot rides in the bus, and, uh, trying to get the windows to go down and get the best seats, but, uh, it was such a small town. You really—you knew everyone. I mean—you knew every student. You pretty much knew where everyone lived. Uh, today I don’t think that’s quite the case, ‘cause of the campuses, two high schools, two middle schools, uh, about five or six elementary schools. So, uh, there’s pretty good chance you don’t know everyone.
Uh, so that was kinda a neat, uh, part to be from, uh, Oviedo, but the, uh—the schools were great, uh—a good education. A[?], uh—the high school years probably were my favorite. Uh, you just tend to develop more relationships in those—those timeframes, as well. I got active in, um, a little bit of politics as sophomore class president and senior class president, and enjoyed that a lot. Homecoming bonfires and things of that nature, a lot of fun sporting events, but, uh, it was just a nice—it was a nice time in Oviedo.
Thorncroft
Where were those bonfires? Because they’ve stopped doing those now.
White
Yeah.
Thorncroft
[laughs].
White
[laughs] Uh, [coughs] yeah, the [Seminole County Public] School[s] system decided it wasn’t necessarily the safest thing to do. Um, maybe they had a few episodes after our class graduated, but they used to be on the front football field or off to the side, and the junior-senior class would compete in competition, uh, to win the trophy, and I’m proud to say my class won the junior and senior year. There weren’t[sic] a whole lot of classes that won back to back, but certainly thereafter, they stopped the bonfires. Uh, they’ve turned it into parades and, uh, other contests and things.
Thorncroft
So the bonfires were more like the pep rallies?
White
Yes, yup.
Thorncroft
Um…
White
Kind of a throwback to the traditional days. I think bonfires were probably a very common, um, almost a patriotic occurrence at the schools, you know, for the homecoming game.
Thorncroft
And were you involved in any other activities other than student government?
White
Well, I grew up on a horse farm, so I rode horses, uh, all the way up through my—‘bout my junior year in high school, and then I got kinda disinterested in it, but we used to ride in horse shows—hunter/jumper horse shows, and we competed in what was called the, uh, 100-mile endurance ride up in the Ocala National Forest. That was once a year, and that was fun. Had a, uh—a great time doing that. So that was kinda—my childhood years was[sic], uh, horses.
Thorncroft
So what were some of the local hangouts and what did you guys do for fun growing up in Oviedo?
Unidentified
[coughs].
White
Oh, gosh. There wasn’t…
Unidentified
[coughs].
White
A lot in Oviedo. I mean—the school system was really your entertainment, unless you created entertainment on your own. There wasn’t[sic] any recreational or other activities in town. The city parks hadn’t really developed yet. If you were engaged in little league or sports like that, you had those venues. Uh, church was—was very instrumental in our lives, as well. Um, they had a lot of activities at—at church to—to fill our needs, as—as well. Um, I guess the high school sports—you know, attending the games and so forth—were primarily the form of entertainment, and then, uh, movies. Visiting the movie theater usually we had to go to Altamonte [Springs] to do that. We did have what was known as the Oviedo Lights. Uh, you have probably heard that story, but, um, most of us, uh, uh, visited that location from time to time to—just kind of a hangout type-thing. Never found or discovered anything, but, uh, that was kind of a—always a fun evening.
Thorncroft
So when you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?
White
I had no earthly idea. I didn’t. As I was going through high school, I was one that was struggling with what to do for a—a professional career. I started working my senior year at Sears, Roebuck and Company on Forsyth Road in, uh, Winter Park-Goldenrod area, and thought I would probably take a job in retail. I actually ended up working in their accounting auditing department, for some reason. Uh, they said I scored real well on the math test, which, uh, didn’t reflect my school grades all that well [laughs], but anyways, I did that for a year or two, and the volunteer fire chief at the time, Andy McDaniel, approached me, said, “We need a little help. We’re kinda low in our volunteer roster. Would you mind lending some time, uh, participating with us?” And I said, “Well, okay, sure. It’s my hometown. I’ll give that a try,” and I really took a love for it, and it looked like an opportunity for a career, as well. Um, I knew the town was growing, so I went and got my certified firefighting standards and state examinations certificate, and my then my Emergency Medical Technician, and soon after that, uh, a job was offered to me in 1983, and I’ve been here ever since.
Thorncroft
[inaudible]. Um, so have you ever lived outside of Oviedo or outside of Florida?
White
Nope.
Thorncroft
Nope [laughs]?
White
[laughs] Born and raised Oviedo. I’m as hometown as you can get [laughs], I would say. Um, even my children have grown up here, went to the same schools I did, and they’re graduates now of, uh, Lawton and Jackson Heights and Oviedo High School. Uh, my son’s a graduate of the University of Central Florida. Uh, my daughter’s got her two year degree from Seminole State College, and working on a, uh—an esthetician, and in paramedical program now for dermatology.
Thorncroft
So how do you think their childhoods being raised in Oviedo compares to yours? Are they similar? Are they different?
White
Yeah, I think there were a lot of similarities, uh, except on a larger scale. Um, my daughter participated in the Pop Warner cheerleading and did cheerleading in high school, as well. So she was well connected to the school system. My son was very active in a lot of things in the school, very, uh, school-spirited and so forth. So it was fun watching them enjoy some of the same, uh, traditions and nuances that we got to experience.
Thorncroft
So, um, what about your wife? Is she also from Oviedo?
White
She is. Uh, she was from Winter Springs, but Winter Springs was designated for Oviedo schools. Uh, we knew each other in school. We didn’t date in school. It was, uh—as soon as we graduated, we started dating, but, uh, yes, we’ve known each other for a very long time [laughs].
Thorncroft
[laughs] Um, has she been involved in the community at all? Or…
White
Yup, she’s retired from, uh, one of the hometown banks—Citizens Bank of Oviedo is what it was called at the time. Now, it’s Citizens Bank of Florida. Uh, she’s been very active a lot of the activities I have with the [Oviedo] Historical Society and many other venues. Uh, she works right now part-time, uh, as an office manager and taking care of a local insurance company and all their booking and accounting needs, and so forth—personnel management.
Thorncroft
Soearlier you mentioned got involved with the [Oviedo] Fire Department at a volunteer basis. Was the fire department volunteer back in the [19]70s and ‘80s? When did it become more professionalized?
White
Well, the—the history of the Oviedo Volunteer Fire Department started about 19—uh, 60. around that time frame is when they began to organize themselves, and after a couple catastrophic fires in town, where they had to rely on resources from way out from other entities, they decided to, uh, put it—something together, and it was really a bunch of farmers that, uh, built a fire engine—you know, really a water truck, and it grew from there.
Uh, when I joined the department, it was a little more organized than that. They issued you a pager, so you were alerted to the calls through a paging system, instead of the old siren system that used to alert the whole town, and if you could come help you ran down to the fire station, and grabbed some gear and went to the call. So it evolved from that, but it was obvious in the early 80s, as we start forming the full-time department, that it would have to move that way. The traffic, the growth—all of that was lending itself to something that volunteers just could not take care of any longer. So we kept them on board as a combination department for about 10 years. It was in the early ‘90s when the volunteer portion of the fire department dissolved itself, and we were then just a full-time fire department.
Thorncroft
So what have been the most memorable calls you’ve had to go out on as a fire—firefighter[?]?
White
Okay. Well, I’ve been involved in it for 31 years full-time, and volunteered about three or four years before that. Uh, I would say my first day as a volunteer firefighter was rather exciting. Uh, I had joined on a Wednesday night. They gave me a pager, gave me some gear, and pretty much just said, “If—if the pager goes off, come down to the fire station. We’ll tell you what you need to do, and we’ll get you trained in this overtime.”
Well, the pager went off, uh, that first Saturday, and I came down to the fire station, and, um, no one else showed up, and the pager went off again, and a police officer pulled up. He said, “Are y’all coming to the call or not?” I said, “Well, I’m by myself. I really [laughs] haven’t really been trained.” we both started the rescue vehicle, and he led me to the call with his police vehicle, and I went by myself [laughs]. It was just a very unusual occurrence. Usually, there was a senior officer that was always in town. There was a miscommunication that day, and it happened one more time that day—that afternoon. So I went to my first two emergencies by myself. One was just a Band-Aid call, uh, and I think the other was just a trip and fall or something like that. So they were both very low key incidents, but I thought Well, I guess I was meant to participate. They do need some help here [laughs].
Some of the more meaningful calls though, um, have been where I’ve been involved in, uh, assisting on traffic crashes that were, uh, very traumatic and things of that nature. I have one that really sticks in my mind with a—a young high school girl that was, uh, stuck by a car. She was walking along the side of the highway, [coughs] and when I got there, she was almost taking her last breaths. Um, she was so tragically injured, but everything worked the way it was supposed to. All of our training showed that night. Uh, we—we prepared her, uh—started treating her, packaged her for a[sic] emergency helicopter flight, got her to the trauma center in less than 35 minutes. She was in surgery in one hour. Uh, she had major extensive damage, but about six months later, she walked into the fire station to—to say, “Hello,” and say, “Thank you,” and that one really touched my heart, uh, you know, pretty—pretty hard. So…
Thorncroft
So other than the more memorable calls, what has been the most rewarding aspect of your career?
White
Well, I’ve been blessed to move up in the organization at different levels. Um, I—I don’t think it was ever my intention to become the Fire Chief and Emergency Management Director. It just kinda happened. Um, in 2004, my Fire Chief retired and the City Manager put me in as the Interim Fire Chief Emergency Management Director, and encouraged me to apply for the—the position, and they were doing a—a national search at the time. At that time, we were hit by three back-to-back hurricanes. So, uh, I had to manage those events as the Emergency Management Director, and as they referred to me at that time, they said that was really my formal interview, uh—was my performance, uh, at those three events, and that was, uh, quite a memorable experience as well. our town experiencing that. It certainly wasn’t a one man show. All the departments, and all the directors, and all the employees were instrumental in our disaster response and recovery efforts, uh, but the Emergency Management Director kinda is the conductor of the band and—and keeps everything together as you’re going through it. So, uh, We had a good plan in place and I was familiar with it, but, uh, it was kinda thrown in my lap real—real quickly, but I think that’s been good for me. I did have the advantage of fulfilling all the different positions—a Lieutenant, a Captain, uh, a Battalion Chief. I was the Division Chief of Training and Emergency Medical Services when I got promoted to Fire Chief. So I had some real good, diverse education and training that I think helped prepare me for the past 11 years as Fire Chief [laughs].
Thorncroft
Um, so you spoke earlier before our interview about the Veterans Memorial for Oviedo. what are your main motivations for creating that?
White
Well, being involved in the historical society, I always took interest in that aspect, as well. Um, Around 2002-2003, we learned that the road widening project was, in fact, going to take place in Oviedo on, uh, [Florida] State Road 426-County Road 419, and it also was going to take land from the fire station and the Memorial Building. In fact, to the level that we have to take the buildings down, the City [of Oviedo] even looked at having the Memorial Building lifted and moved, but it just wasn’t feasible. So, uh, we learned that we were going to lose our only connection to our veterans. The Memorial Building was built in honor of, uh, four men who lost their lives in World War II, and the town built that building. Uh, used to be pictures of our military veterans depicted inside the building.
So [Oviedo] City Council asked me, “Would you, uh, chair a committee and study building a veterans memorial in our town somewhere.” So I took on that task. I studied veterans’ memorials all across the country for about six months, and then formed the committee, and we included, uh, city staff, um, the American Legion Post [243] from Oviedo. We had a[sic] architect on board, uh, um, uh, a—another architect that was instrumental in Winter Springs [Veterans] Memorial. So we put the team together, started our planning efforts, and it went from there. Um, it’s—it’s been, uh, a good experience. We’ve been working on it for about three years. We’re going to dedicate it, uh, this, uh, May 25, uh—Memorial Day 2015.
Uh, I’ve had a lot of interesting conversations with families and veterans, and heard some real personal stories, and I think that’s probably been the most meaningful aspect of it. I think it’s made the project more meaningful to me. I’ve also had, uh, family members that have served, uh, primarily in World War II, and learned a lot about their personal stories and things I had—I had never known before and some very heroic acts, uh—not only of them, but all those protect us every day every night. So this is going to mean a lot to me. I’m excited about it and Excited to get it done, ‘cause we’ve been working on it for such a long time.
Thorncroft
So with the impending, you know, de—demolition of Downtown Oviedo, um, that fire house there—I heard through the grapevine—is the oldest one in Seminole County. Is that any sort of major loss to the community, you think?
White
Well, it has some sentimental value, since it was the original fire station location. Um, I think there—in the region, there were older fire stations than that, ‘cause there’s, uh—Sanford goes further back than our time frame for volunteers and full-time department. Um, it’s probably second to Sanford, in age. Um, it—yeah, it’s going to a little be hard to see it come down, um, but we’ll take some bricks off it. We’ll memorialize it. We have some wonderful pictures of it, and we’re gonna start a new legacy at the new location, but it is important to document it and capture it in our history, but we know all things change, in time.
Uh, ironically, all those business down that corridor have been waiting for this moment. Uh, their—their properties have had limited value, and property owners knew that, and children that inherited them. So they knew when the road widening project was coming along. They hadn’t been able to sell their properties. nobody wants to buy those buildings. Um, There’s—parking has been a[sic] atrocious problem down there for those businesses—businesses to thrive. So, um, we—we’ve captured in—in records the best we can. Historical society empowered the local Oviedo Photography Club.[1] So we have some good records of it, and that’s not the original downtown. The original downtown burnt down at one time, as well. So that was kinda, uh, “version 2.0” I’ll call it. So now it’s time to launch version 3.0, you know, for Oviedo’s history.
Thorncroft
Alright, so in a little bit of research for this interview, I saw that in 2013 you were asked to conduct an investigation in Oviedo chicken population.
White
Yeah [laughs].
Thorncroft
Uh, what was your reaction when you were asked to do that investigation?
White
[laughs] Uh, a little embarrassing [laughs]. Probably asking myself, Why me? You know, Why did I get charged with this? I think having grown up here, uh, they probably said, uh, “You need to handle this,” and, uh, animal control duties fall under emergency management duties as well, but it was more to, uh, kinda appease the crowd out there. It was beginning wondering what’s going on, but the, uh—the chickens have always been a part of Oviedo’s history. I suspect they’ll survive the growth, as well. There’s still plenty of land and pockets of land and so forth for them to survive. They, uh, have lasted all these years, so I think they’ll—they’ll, uh, migrate through the next decade or longer, as well. So…
Thorncroft
So you think they’ll just kinda migrate up to new Downtown Oviedo?
White
Uh, they kinda move on their own and—and set up a new habitat. Uh, they’re a little bit territorial. Uh, usually, if you try to relocate ‘em to a certain location, uh, they move from wherever you create a habitat. They create one on their own. So, uh, their population numbers go up and down. The research showed a little bit of, uh, just a normal cycle where some other wildlife were, uh—well, it’s just the chain of life, you know? They were getting to the chickens, eating the eggs before they would hatch, and so forth, and, uh, I think some of that has, uh, tempered down a little bit. We’re starting to see another rise in the chicken population, and we understand there’s a group out there that likes to feed ‘em and kinda maintain ‘em a little bit. So I think they’re doing well.
Thorncroft
What is your earliest memory of seeing an Oviedo chicken, because nobody knows…
White
[laughs].
Thorncroft
Exactly where they came from?
White
No, there’s a hundred different stories, depending on who you ask. Uh, it was an agricultural community, so chickens were very common. Uh, they were common at residential homes, as well. People would just use ‘em for harvesting eggs. We had them on the horse farm we had, because it was known that chickens would often contract, uh, a serious disease before the horses might contract it or the cattle. So the farmers, uh, horse owners, cattle owners would, uh, use that as a gage to—to bring in the veterinarian before that could spread to the other crops and—and animals and so forth. So there was a[sic] actual purpose behind having chickens, but I think they were just part of the, uh, typical farming community.
Thorncroft
What about the, uh, peacocks that I typically see kinda wondering through Oviedo? Do you know anything about them?
White
Now, that’s probably the bigger question. Um, I don’t know where they came from. Uh, nobody really does. It’s likely someone acquired ‘em at some point in time, and became tired of ‘em, and just turned ‘em loose, but, uh, we don’t really have any historical knowledge of—of how they came about. They’re pretty to look at, but they’re pretty destructive too, and[?], uh…
Thorncroft
Have there…
White
Scratch cars and so forth. So…
Thorncroft
Have there been any incidents involving them, like accidents or…
White
Once in a while, we’ll get a citizen complaint, uh, that usually goes to Animal Control[2] for them or for aggressive roosters, certain times of year. Uh, they are just, uh, protective of themselves. So they’ll scratch you or peck at ya and so forth. A few complaints now and then where they damaged cars and things like that, but other than that, they’re—they’re pretty quiet.
Thorncroft
Alright. Um, well, is there anything else you’d like to share with me today about the history of Oviedo, growing up there, or anything?
White
Well, it’s been a great town. I—I think our growth has been pretty well managed. Uh, Traffic is always a problem in any town, and it’s always a catch-up type thing you’re never really completely prepared. The city doesn’t have a lot control over some of that, ‘cause they’re [Seminole] County and State [of Florida] roads and things of that nature. Uh, I’ve watched a lot of dirt roads get paved, uh, watched a lot of subdivisions come in to town, and that’s been—it’s been fun. I’m glad that people have enjoyed the hometown feel like just like I did, and that’s what you see a lot on social media and so forth—is folks really love this area.
There’s a lot of, uh, civic organizations in here just doing some wonderful things, uh, so many groups, uh, A lot of hometown spirit, uh, A friendly rivalry between the two high schools. It’s been healthy. it hasn’t been destructive, so that’s been good. Uh, Seminole County has a top of the line school system. I think that’s attracted a lot of people to this area. It’s still a little bit rural. We’ve got the river that runs through—the Econ[lockhatchee] River that runs through our town. People get to enjoy that and paths, and parks, and trails. Oviedo, uh, has some wonderful recreation, parks, facilities.
And I like to pride ourselves on our [Oviedo] Police [Department] and Fire Department. Uh, the police do community patrolling where they’re well-connected with the community, and, uh, our philosophy, in our department too, is a hometown fire department, and we treat every person, every contact, as if it were a family member, and that’s our—our philosophy in our organization is serve with, uh, excellence, uh, serve with honor, serve with respect, and, uh, I think that’s a throwback to the beginning of the volunteers. They did that, as well. You just—you entered into this career, ‘cause you wanted to give back something to the community. Although we’re paid to do it, it’s, uh, more meaningful than that, and, uh, I think it’s been a—a good career for me and a great town to grow up in. So that’s what I would add to the conversation.
Thorncroft
Alright, and I guess my last question would just be how did you get, you know, so interested in history and involved with that?
White
Well, knowing that the town was growing, knowing that we were going to lose the downtown area, and, uh, just being a part of Oviedo’s history. I think it’s important when folks come to town, you need to know where the community came from. Every time I hire a new employee in the fire department, they learn where this department started, that it was on the backs of a bunch of dedicated, volunteer firefighters, and, uh, it’s important they know that. So, uh, being involved in the historical society, and our Lawton House and [Oviedo] Farmers Market and things like that, I—I think it’s important we share that message. Uh, you learn from your past so you don’t make the same mistakes in the future. That’s a, uh, certainly historical, uh, uh, perspective that our, uh, elected officials and military leaders follow, and I think it serves well even for a hometown.
Thorncroft
Alright, well, thank you so much for your time today.
White
Thank you, Sarah.
Dobson
This is an oral history interview of Bernie[1] [O.] Blackwood. Interview is conducted by Alexandra Dobson at the Blackwood home in Oviedo, Florida, on the 19th of March, 2015. Inter—interview topics include Oviedo, Mead Manor, and that’s it.
Blackwood
Well, my name’s Bernie Blackwood, and my association with Oviedo began in the early [19]50s. I was a student at Gainesville,[2] and I had a roommate named Bob Ward, who was a native of Oviedo, and I came to Oviedo on occasions on weekend with Bob, and got to know a little bit about the area. It was so different from my, uh, little home town in North Florida. I saw orange groves and celery fields and stuff, to—tobacco fields, uh—shade[?] tobacco fields it was up there, but, um, when I finished at Gainesville, I went right to work. I had a job waiting in Saint Petersburg[, Florida], and, uh, Bob and I kept in contact over the years, and through Bob I had met his brother, Ben Ward—Ben Ward, Jr., and, uh, we’d been in St. Pete four or five years. I—I guess it was around 1963 when Ben called me—Ben Ward, Bob’s brother—and said he was developing a subdivision. He and a group of, uh, investors and businesspeople here in O—Oviedo were developing a subdivision, and they had started, but they’d ran into a few troubles, and he knew I—through Bob—knew had a little—had—I had a little experience in land planning.
So he asked me if I’d come up, take a look at what he had, and I was glad to do it, because it gave me a chance to visit Bob, and Ben brought me out. it’s a 40-acre site in— northeast, uh, Oviedo—beautiful piece of land—and made it clear to me to—to begin with they wanted large lots, nice home sites, and the group of, uh, investors and businesspeople, who, uh, put their money up for this project, wanted the same thing. They wanted to grow Oviedo and they knew there was nothing in Oviedo, at that time. No lots available, really. I don’t think there’d been any residential lots added in Oviedo since probably the early 1900s, and—so I went to work on the plan, and, uh, came up with something that they agreed with.
Oh, I’m getting a little ahead of myself maybe, because they had actually started—they had, uh, put the group together, and they had paved a little section of Mead Drive, which is the entrance off of Division Street into Mead Manor, at that time, Three or four hundred—two or three hundred feet, I’d say, and then it made a right turn into a little cul-de-sac, and they had, uh—[laughs] they didn’t know quite where to go from there, because they had three—three swampy areas—little ponds in the 40 acres. So we developed a plan, uh, around those ponds, uh, with nice size lots and streets running around, and, uh, they approved the plan and, [clears throat] I came up one weekend—one Saturday with an engineer friend of my from St. Pete, and, uh, the streets had been, uh, cleared, and we shot grades, went back to St. Pete, and did a cut-and-fill plan, and presented that to the group, and they went from there and started developing the subdivision.
And the—they paved the streets, they put in paved streets with gutters, and they had a water system in Oviedo at that time, so it was on a water system, and the, uh, next, uh—next thing we knew, uh—I should say that before they started this project, there was no kno—knowledge of FTU[4] locating five miles south of Oviedo. It, eh—I asked Ben later, and he said “No,” uh, “We didn’t know it,” and I thought they were crazy, at the time, for—for footing this kind of subdivision and—and—[laughs] out in Oviedo with just a little crossroads farm community, and I didn’t know where the people were going to come from, and Ben said, “Oh, they’ll come.” He was an eternal optimist, and the next thing I knew, I read—read in The St. Pete[rsburg] Times where FTU was locating five miles south of Oviedo. So I began to be a little more interested in what was going on, and they began selling the lots. First lot they sold in here—or maybe the second one—uh, I know it was the first person from the university—was a man named Phil Gorey[sp] and he was a, um—one of the administrative people under Millican—Dr. [Charles Norman] Millican, and the, uh—the subdivision took off rather slowly, but they were selling lots. A lot across the street there was, uh—was, uh, [Joe] Gomez, uh…
Suzanne
He was a professor out there.
Blackwood
Yeah, What’s the first, uh…
Suzanne
Joe.
Blackwood
Uh…
Suzanne
Joe.
Blackwood
Joe. Yeah, Joe Gomez. He was a comptroller out at the university, and, uh, there were three or four, five, six—I mean, there half a dozen, at least, uh, different professors that started buying lots out, and some of them still here, like me [laughs]. I’m not a professor [laughs], um, and as the lots started selling, the land group—Oviedo Land Group was the name of the, uh—of the, corpora—or the company that Ben Ward put together, and the investors in it—I could—I can recall most of ‘em, I think. There was, uh, Frank Wheeler, John Evans, uh, I think Mr. Roy Clonts, probably, um…
Suzanne
Beleren[sp]?
Blackwood
Who?
Suzanne
Bob[?] Beleren? Was he one of ‘em?
Blackwood
No, no, not, uh, not, uh…
Suzanne
Okay.
Blackwood
Uh, uh…
Suzanne
Martin?
Blackwood
Yeah.
Suzanne
Bill…
Blackwood
Bill…
Suzanne
Martin?
Blackwood
Yeah, Bill Martin and John Evans. I might have…
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
Said him before, but anyway, it was a group of local businessmen and there were five or six of ‘em. I met with them a couple times, and, uh, didn’t really know them at—at all. I have since gotten to know them all, one time or another, and, uh—so they decided to buy another 40 acres just, uh, to the north of the first unit, and, uh I—again, I did a layout for them, and Ben developed it, and so it made a total of 80 acres here in Oviedo, and I—I’d be glad to drive you around and show you if you’d like to see it. Some of the developers’ve[sic] been dead, but during this time, Ben was still planning ahead and the next thing—he had a project. Another, uh—I think it was another 40 acres, and—and they—we worked up a subdivision for him on that—a layout, and it’s called [inaudible] Garden Grove. It’s right near here.
And, [clears throat] by that time, Ben, eh—he was originally—he had an insurance business, and, uh, uh—and a real estate brokerage business, and he was getting interested into building and construction. He said, “I’ve got all these lots. I might as well build some houses.” So he offered—gave me—he said, “Why don’t you come up and join me, and we’ll form a corporation and build—build a few houses,” and the idea appealed to me, but leaving my secure place in St. Pete—position I had and so forth—uh, it took a lot of soul searching, and I guess it—I probably thought about it for two or three years ‘fore—and, in the meantime, Ben and I were still working together on—on the projects up here, and, uh, I finally made the decision. I’ve gotta do it. I want to do it. I’d always been interested in construction and had some experience in that, and my[?]—my family wasn’t too eager about it at first.
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
The kids—I had a, uh, son[5] that was in the third grade and going—would be going into the fourth grade, and a daughter in the sixth grade, I believe, but they finally came around, and we moved up here, uh, second day of September, 1972. Went to work about the very next day and…
[phone rings]
Blackwood
The kids start…
[phone rings]
Blackwood
The kids started school the very next day after we got here, I think, and my family adjusted. They just loved Oviedo, and Sue[6] was a city girl. Sue was from Jacksonville.
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
And she didn’t think she wanted to move to Oviedo from St. Petersburg. We all loved St. Petersburg. I did too, but, um, we found Oviedo to be—the people here were the most gracious, welcoming. we never felt like a stranger, and part of that maybe was, because I came here with Ben Ward, who—his dad was a celery grower, and, uh, had—had groves here in town, and Ben had some land, and—quite a bit of land in and around Oviedo, and, uh, so we—we went from there. We started building houses, and, uh, Ben and I were together, uh, for four years, I think, and his interests were—was on development—land development, and mine…
[phone beeps]
Blackwood
Was more in construction, and I didn’t have the deep pockets to go into land development [laughs], but Ben, uh—he had a vision for this—for this little town, and he—he wanted to—nothing but quality development, and he was the only one developing land in Oviedo, and he was always, I thought, a little ahead of the market, and it was, uh—it cost him financially, but he did it, and after we, uh—we split, we remained friends, and met on a weekly basis and compared what each of us was doin’, until he passed away in—I think he passed away in ‘99, and [coughs] I never—I feel he never deserved the credit he did—he deserved—for what he did for this little town, because you can look around he—he’s re—responsible for Mead Manor, Garden Grove, Whispering Oaks….
Suzanne
Mmhmm.
Blackwood
Uh, Hill—Hillcrest, uh, Farms—I think was the name of it.
Suzanne
Uh, Windmilll…
Blackwood
Windmill Farms.
Suzanne
Farms.
Blackwood
Those were residential, uh, develops here.
Suzanne
How about Oviedo Oaks?
Blackwood
No, no, he didn’t—he didn’t develop that.
Suzanne
Hm.
Blackwood
Uh, and he also started—he did some commer—a couple of commercial projects. one of ‘em was, uh, Westwood Square. It was a commercial/industrial, uh, zoning area, and, uh, it’s completely built out now. Uh, do you know where, uh, Toucan—what—no, it’s—what’s the Spanish…
Suzanne
Habanero’s [Mexican Grill].
Blackwood
Habanero’s.
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
You know where that is?
Dobson
I drove by it.
Blackwood
That was part of Westwood Square. All of those b—back in there was developed, and there was nothing out there at the time—nothing, and nothing between there and Oviedo [laughs], and…
Suzanne
One little gas station.
Blackwood
Yeah, the—the, uh, Tiger—Tiger Station.
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
We called it, and, uh, then there’s another, uh, I believe it’s called Oviedo Office Park up to your—on [Florida State Road] 426 between Westwood Square and the city limits—what was the city limits then—or the high school, say—and it’s a very nice commercial development, and it had doctor’s offices, uh, and that—that type of commu—uh, development, and, like I say, we—we came here—we’ve been here for 43 years now, and I could never move Sue from—get her out of this house or out of this city.
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
She loves it and the kids love it. My daughter lives in Tallahassee, and, uh, she—she’s down here quite often. My son works with me, or did work with me. He runs the business now. I’m just—I’m retired. I go in and aggravate him every day a little bit [laughs]. Uh, I don’t know. Do you have any questions from there? I’d be glad to drive you around a little Oviedo and show you some of these projects if you have the time…
Dobson
Okay.
Blackwood
Or the inclination.
Dobson
Sure, thank you.
Suzanne
Take her to, um, Whispering Oaks, ‘cuz that’s…
Blackwood
Yeah.
Suzanne
Really…
Blackwood
Well, they’re all nice.
Suzanne
Really, pretty, yes, Whispering Oaks has beautiful trees, but…
Dobson
Um…
Blackwood
Have I missed anything Sue?
Suzanne
I don’t’ think so. I think—I was amazed at how well you [laughs]…
Blackwood
Uh…
Suzanne
Covered everything.
Blackwood
Well, you know, that’s—that’s about it with, uh, my—my interests in Oviedo. It was…
Suzanne
I…
Blackwood
Was primarily building. I built all these years and…
Suzanne
Do you know what the population was when we moved here?
Blackwood
I should’ve…
Suzanne
[inaudible].
Blackwood
Gone into that. It was about 2000, and, uh, it was about the same when I visited 10 years earlier. It hadn’t grown a bit. I don’t think it grew a bit from—I should’ve included this in it—from the ‘30s and on up to the ‘60s, and this development right here[7] was what started the growth in Oviedo, uh, after—after, um—no. I guess it was the edges[?] of [inaudible], uh, track builders started coming into Oviedo. The, uh, uh, Jacobs brothers owned two thousand acres of land where O—where Alafaya Woods is now and that area over there, uh—Twin Rivers and that area. They sold it to a group in Atlanta in the early [19]70s, and Bob pretty well fell out of construction for a while there, and nothin’, eh—I don’t know if that company went bankrupt or what, but they sold it to the Anden Group, and the Anden Group is a group that developed Alafaya Woods [clears throat], and it was a little bit, uh—it was, uh, a different type development than what Ben had been developing. I think he’d be surprised today if he knew how, um—he felt that—that Oviedo never had, uh—be, uh, anything but small, rural community [inaudible] with good home sites. ‘Course he knew, and I knew too, that when the university located there, sooner or later it was gonna affect Oviedo in a big way [coughs], and it did, but, uh…
Suzanne
Is—is Tom Phillips next door still teaching?
Blackwood
Yeah, he’s a professor over—no. he’s not teaching, but he’s retired.
Suzanne
He’s retired? Okay.
Blackwood
Yeah.
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
That’s—that’s probably…
Suzanne
We were surrounded by them.
Blackwood
Yeah, when we first moved here, the—‘course, this was, you know—all the professors had kids and we had kids, and it’s, uh, changed a couple times since then. You’ve got, uh, uh, older families that moved out, newer families with kids that moved in, and, uh, and, uh, and we’ve stuck—stuck here [laughs] all those years, but, um, we’ve seen the growth in Oviedo from two thousand to…
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
What? 35,000 now, probably.
Dobson
Do you think it was just the university that did that, or…
Suzanne
Pretty…
Blackwood
Well…
Suzanne
Pretty much.
Blackwood
It, uh—pretty much, I think. The [Central Florida] Research Park out there—and of course, it—it—Oviedo [clears throat]—it grew to be a—it had a very good school system.[8] I should’ve mentioned that. When—when we moved here, my son was going into the fourth grade, and we—he went to a school right across from where we lived, practically, in St Pete. He could walk to school, and they had gotten into the new, uh—let the kid reach his potential, don’t push him, don’t push him.
Suzanne
Mmhmm.
Blackwood
And…
Unidentified
[clears throat].
Blackwood
I went and talked with the teacher about it, and—“Oh, Scott’s doin’ fine,” And it didn’t…
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
Seem to me that he was doin’ fine, and she said, “Oh, no, no. he’s fine.” Well, when we got here, he had teachers like Ms. [Margeurite] Partin.
Suzanne
Partin Elementary [School] was named after her, and she was a wonderful teacher.
Blackwood
And Ms. Gore, and s—same teachers that taught Ben Ward, and Bob Ward—that group. They were still there, and she went to work on Scott and brought him up to speed. He didn’t—he didn’t even know his multiplication tables, and [laughs]…
Suzanne
Does now [laughs].
Blackwood
And all of the kids here did, but she—she put him to work on ‘em and you[?]—he learned real quick[sic], and caught up, and did alright, But it—it was just a great place to raise your kids, and, uh, I—I just can’t say enough about the—the town and about—about the guy that really got it goin’.
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
Ben Ward.
Suzanne
I think so too.
Blackwood
You get the chance to give him a plug—he’s long gone. his wife still lives here in Ovi—in, uh, Mead Manor, and his kids—he has one—one kid that lives in Tuscawilla and the rest of ‘em are scattered around.
Suzanne
Tuscawilla was not here at all when we moved here.
Blackwood
Well, it was too. It was one road…
Suzanne
[inaudible].
Blackwood
Called Dyson Road[9] comin’ off of, uh, Tuskawilla Road—Dyson—and they had…
Suzanne
Dyson, yeah.
Blackwood
They—they just started developing a few lots there. That’s a beautiful sub—one of my favorite subdivisions. The area is Tuscawilla.
Dobson
Mm, what kinds of things has Blackwood Construction [Corporation] done?
Blackwood
We did primarily single-family and, uh, small commercial. We did, uh, dental office for Bob Beleren over in Winter Springs[, Florida], and that sort of thing, but we built over 500—we’ve got—I think we got…
Suzanne
563 [laughs].
Blackwood
Well, some of ‘em weren’t—some of ‘em in the recent years have just been small jobs…
Suzanne
And Lutheran Haven. mention Lutheran Haven.
Blackwood
Yeah, we did—we built most of Lutheran Haven projects out of, uh—duplexes.
Suzanne
You’ve probably passed Lutheran Haven on your way in. Yeah.
Dobson
Could be…
Suzanne
Hm.
Dobson
I’m not sure.
Suzanne
[inaudible].
Dobson
I’m really not that familiar [laughs]…
Suzanne
It’s a big Lutheran church, and they—it has a retirement for us—little du—duplexes.
Dobson
Okay.
Blackwood
Its’ a…
Suzanne
Its’ a…
Blackwood
And a—and a, uh, nursing home now. Uh, we could even—if you’ve got time, I’ll drive you all over. show you—show you a little bit of Oviedo.
Dobson
Okay [laughs], Thank you.
Suzanne
Don’t want to live here? [laughs].
Dobson
Yeah [laughs]. Um, I actually moved to Orlando from St. Pete for the same reasons.
Suzanne
Oh, my goodness.
Dobson
[laughs].
Blackwood
Oh, really?
Suzanne
[laughs].
Dobson
To get my son in a better school.
Suzanne
Aww.
Blackwood
Aw, really?
Dobson
Yeah, I don’t…
Suzanne
Well, you know, we thought the schools there were just great, ‘til we moved here.
Blackwood
Well, I didn’t think they were great, because I didn’t think our—our boy was learning anything.
Suzanne
Yeah, well…
Blackwood
And—and another thing, uh, we got caught up right in the Civil Rights [Movement]—we—you know where Bay Vista Elementary [School] is?
Dobson
Mmhmm.
Blackwood
We lived within a block of Bay Vista, at that time, and the kids walked to school, and it was a fairly new school then, and, uh, eh, I think, 11 or—yeah, she was in the fifth grade when all the civil rights—and they started bussing kids, and she got bussed to the school right in the middle of St.—black school in the middle of St. Pete.
Suzanne
I don’t remember what the school was—the— the name of the school.
Blackwood
I don’t remember.
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
But [laughs] it—it, uh—it was only for that one year, and she got along fine.
Suzanne
Yeah, she did.
Blackwood
She didn’t have any problems, but…
Suzanne
She—she made some good friends there.
Blackwood
It just didn’t make sense to take kids that [laughs] could walk to school and pay a bus to drive them somewhere else.
Suzanne
[laughs] It was probably a good experience.
Blackwood
Well, you [inaudible]—how—how long did you live in St. Pete?
Dobson
Uh, five or six years.
Suzanne
You weren’t born there then?
Dobson
No.
Blackwood
From when to when?
Dobson
Uh, it was recent. I’ve been in Orlando for three years.
Blackwood
Three years?
Dobson
Yes.
Blackwood
Oh, well, you saw—you’ve seen the downtown area really change.
Dobson
Yes, it has [laughs].
Blackwood
We—we—I graduated on Saturday night, and we packed up everything, and we had. I met Sue at [the University of] Florida her—her senior year [laughs], and…
Suzanne
Just about.
Blackwood
And, uh, we packed up everything. We—we got married, uh, my last semester there. we got married, and she’d graduated the semester ‘fore I did. She’s smarter than I am.
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
And we moved to St. Pete on Sunday, and I started work Monday. I was, uh—I worked as a city planner for 14 years ‘fore I came here.
Dobson
Wow. What kind of things did you do?
Blackwood
What kind of work?
Suzanne
Yeah.
Blackwood
Well, uh, we—are—are you—if you’re familiar with the parks system in Oviedo—just to give you an example—uh, in, uh, St. Pete, um—Southside Park—you know the 40-acre park down Lakewood Elementary [School]?
Suzanne
Mmhmm.
Blackwood
And all of that? That was a plan that we came up with. Oh, oh—we developed a five-year pl—plan. We had a great city manager named Lynn [H.] Andrews, from about the time I went there until he left in ‘69, and he had a—a capital improvement program—a five-year, capital improvement program, and every year, they would, uh, budget certain projects, and at the end of the year, you’d see if the money was spent right on those projects [inaudible]. He—he’d project the five years another year, but he adjusted every year during that five years, and, uh, he built the, uh—had the, uh—Bayfront Center was built, the museum downtown, the waterfront—the city park of the waterfront, Northeast Park, there was all developed while he was there. The pier—inverted pier—was built, and I was all part of all that, and it was just interesting and fun, until he left, and we got another manager, and I just did not enjoy working anymore.
Suzanne
Oh.
Blackwood
That’s how I happened to come here.
Suzanne
I think that was the time to come here.
Dobson
What was civil rights like in St. Pete? What was your experience with it?
Blackwood
Well, uh, my main experience—it was no problem. 16th Street was kind of, uh—they[?] had their riots and things during the time.
Dobson
They still do [laughs].
Blackwood [laughs] And my main memory of it—and this was why Lynn Andrews left St. Petersburg. I’m sure. In ‘68 or ‘69 when they, um, allowed public employees to be unionized—the garbage department became unionized, and they went on strike one year, and Mr. Andrews, uh, negotiated with ‘em and got ‘em back—not a big break in service. The very next year, they went on strike again, and he—on Monday morning, they didn’t show up for work. the whole garbage department didn’t show up for work, and he gave them an ultimatum. He said that “Anyone that’s not back on the job by Thursday of this week will be permanently terminated—all benefits and everything.” Well, they—the union didn’t believe him, I guess, because a big percent—some did come back. Within a week he had completely re-staffed that from people from Georgia—different people looking for jobs. He completely re-staffed the garbage department, and a lot of employees lost their jobs, and from that point on, The St. Pete Times took up the position of the strikers. They marched on city hall every day, and he didn’t yield. It’s kinda like Ronald Reagan and, uh—and the, uh, uh, air [traffic] controller strike. You’re probably too young to even remember that.
All
[laughs].
Blackwood
But he did the same thing, and, um, from that day on, anything that, that Lynn Andrews did—and I was privy to what was going on there, he would be lambasted in The St. Pete Times for it, and after about, uh, a year of that he, uh—he went back to Tex—he came to St. Pete from San Antonio, Texas, as the city manager, and he went back as the city manager of, uh, Austin, Texas. When he came to St. Pete, he brought his finance director, um, his assistant city manager, and the budget director—was, uh—that group came. When he left, they all went with him, except one, and he left the city and went to work for First Federal [Bank of Florida].
Dobson
Wow, That’s impressive. Keeping your staff with you.
Suzanne
And they were good, good men, weren’t they?
Blackwood
Good men, all of ‘em. yeah, Smart men. I often said. If he’d of run for president. I woulda…
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
I woulda—he—he was firm, but he was fair, But, uh, no. We—we love St. Pete. We go back every now and then, when we get a chance. [inaudible]…
Suzanne
How many people weren’t up there anymore?
Blackwood
Yeah, most of my old buddies are gone. [laughs]. Yeah.
Dobson
It’s still a lovely place to visit.
Suzanne
Yeah, and the downtown is so—with the waterfront—is so nice now.
Blackwood
You know, I went down for a job interview, and Sue went with me, and that was before we were married. I went—I got a summer job there, and, uh [laughs], we drove into St Pete from—came down 30—34th Street, turned left on Central [Avenue] and got downtown, and I—we—this was in April.
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
We saw nothin’ but green benches and gray heads, and that’s quite a shock comin’ from Gainesville.
Suzanne
From Gainesville, yeah, where everybody’s young to…
Blackwood
Where everybody’s young.
Suzanne
To where everybody’s old.
Blackwood
[laughs].
Suzanne
[laughs] but it was a good place to live.
Blackwood
It—yeah.
Suzanne
[inaudible].
Blackwood
It—it—it had something for everybody then, but the majority—I think 25 percent of the population then was 65 or older. It had, uh—I knew at the time, the population was 180 thousand when, uh, we moved there, and I think it was about 22 5[thousand] when we left. I don’t know what it is now, but it had pretty well built out. There wasn’t much developable land in St. Pete, other than up and around Whedon’s[sic] Island area.
Suzanne
What part of St. Pete did you live in?
Dobson
Um, I lived on First Avenue North and 25th Street. So…
Blackwood
25th Street? [inaudible].
Dobson
Almost downtown.
Blackwood
Uh huh, al—yeah.
Suzanne
We lived almost downtown when we first moved there.
Blackwood
We had a little garage apartment, uh…
Suzanne
Right near the hos—near Mound[?] Park Hospital.
Blackwood
No, no. our garage apartment was, uh, up on the Northside.
Suzanne
Oh, that one?
Blackwood
About 26th Avenue North, and then we—we bought a, um—an old, 50-year-old apartment building down on 11th Avenue South, and I could walk to work from there—to City Hall, and we—we moved in— fixed up one unit and moved in it, and as a tenant left, we’d remodel that tenant[sic]—that unit and fix it up. Made a nice place.
Suzanne
Was your son…
Blackwood
Oh.
Suzanne
Born there?
Dobson
Uh, he was born in Clearwater. I lived in Clearwater, Largo, Dunedin [laughs].
Suzanne
Oh.
Blackwood
You ever heard of Fred Marquis?
Dobson
I don’t think so.
Blackwood
He was county manager there in Pinellas County for 25 years, I guess. I think he set a record for it, but he…
Suzanne
[laughs].
Blackwood
He—he was a planner, uh, with, uh—in St. Pete with me [coughs]. He came there right out of graduate school, and, uh, worked there, and we became good friends, but I hadn’t been in touch with him for years. Uh, he’s—he’s—he’s since retired.