Williams
Today is November 13th, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. [Joshua] "Josh" [R.] Dull, who served in the United States Air Force. He served during the [Global] War on Terror and completed his service as a senior airman. My name is Rachel Williams and I am interviewing Mr. Dull as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview at UCF in Orlando, Florida.
Alright. So to start, I’m just going to ask you some basic questions about your early childhood. So can you tell me where you were born?
Dull
Melbourne, Florida.
Williams
And what was your child like—childhood like?
Dull
Childhood?
Williams
Yeah.
Dull
It’s a very broad question. Um, lower middle class suburban. My dad was actually in the Air Force. I was what prompted him to join the Air Force. So my earliest memories are actually in Alaska. That’s where my youngest sister was born, Heather [Dull], and—yeah. We were stationed at Elmendorf [Air Force Base], at the time. Shortly after that, we moved to Washington. We had two houses there, but we lived in the Tacoma[, Washington] area. I think that could be McChord [Field], but I could be mistaken.
So my dad got out the Air Force and, um—that year. About 1992-’93, we moved back to Florida, so we could be around our grandparents, because our whole family is from the Brevard County area. So, um, yeah. My parents basically stayed broke trying to give us a good—at least, middle class—upbringing. We had a strong support group with our aunts, uncles, grandparents, especially—few of our cousins. So we moved from there to Wyoming when I was in eighth grade—when I was 13. So that was kind of rough, ‘cause we left that whole support group around. Love my parents and they were good people, but they’re kind of hard-lined disciplinarians and kept us pretty sheltered too. At least me anyway, ‘cause I was the oldest. So…
Williams
Alright. So you said your dad was in the Air Force. What did your mother do for a living?
Dull
Good question. She kind of bounced around from job to job while we were in Florida. She kind of—her and my dad met at the airport in Melbourne.[1] That’s where they—yeah. They were working there at the time and got married from there, but—I don’t know if she worked while my dad was in the Air Force. and then I just remember her having an array of jobs when I was a kid. I think the last one was a—she was a secretary at a[sic] optometrist or an optometry clinic. So she’s working now for Empower Wyoming, which helps teach women self-defense skills, and I believe she has a—yeah. she does something with substance abuse prevention in Wyoming, so yeah.
Williams
So your dad served in the Air Force. Did any other family members serve?
Dull
My granddad was in the Navy, on my mom’s side. He was—he served during World War II. I had a couple cousins who were—or great cousins, I guess—who were—I’m not sure—Army or Marines or whatever. They served during Vietnam [War]. Great-grandfather served in World War I. I mean, I currently have one cousin who’s in the Marines. another who’s honorably discharged from the Marines.
Williams
So how much education did you have before going into the military?
Dull
High school and like one semester of college.
Williams
How long were you in the service?
Dull
Five years.
Williams
And when did you start basic training?
Dull
I began basic training on May 20th of 2008.
Williams
And what did you think of basic training?
Dull
Sucked.
Williams
Why do you say that?
Dull
Well, let’s see. We were herded onto a bus at about 3 in the morning, and as soon as we stepped off, people are yelling and screaming and cussing at you. Well, actually not necessarily cussing. That wasn’t allowed by this time. back in the day it was. They cuss at you in private, but whatever. But yeah.
You know, basic training—it’s not designed to be fun. It’s not designed to be easy. Yeah. my first memories were doing my best to not get yelled at. Kind of following in the group think almost. And I remember we’re standing in our bay outside our beds and there’s this guy named Master Sargent Romero just screaming at us. And he kinda looked like Danny Trejo from Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Scary guy, you know? [laughs]
Williams
Alright. Describe a typical day during basic training.
Dull
During basic training? Well, at 4:45 in the morning, Reveille plays. Sleep is fleeing from your eyes as your TI [Training Instructor] and others are screaming at you. “Get up! Get up! You make me sick! Get your ass outta bed!” Whatever. You line up in the hallways and wait for the element leaders or whoever to lead us down—down to the pad, which is outside the squadrons. All the squadrons or all the flights in the squadrons had to sound off—the TIs leading them. You start the day with PT—physical training. So running, push-ups. All the while, people are yelling at you. It got better throughout the course of basic training, but at the beginning, definitely not.
Then you had chow. That lasted about five minutes, if you were lucky. You learned to basically just put all your breakfast items between two thick pieces of French toast and that was your breakfast, ‘cause that’s the only way you could eat everything. Then you had to fall out. Then it was just a lot of marching and folding laundry and cleaning up the bay and doing military in-processing stuff. Regular appointments. And also prepping for the graduation ceremony.
So nighttime, the TI would have a—at about 5 o’clock, TI would wind down with us. He’d tell us what went on that day, what we need to accomplish the next day. He gradually got nicer as the course of basic training went on. That was also when you got your letters and stuff, so yeah.
Williams
Did you have any special training?
Dull
Special training? Like, uh…
Williams
Anything other than basic training to get you ready for some special…
Dull
Yeah. Everybody goes to—in the Air Force—well, in the Army, it’s called “A-School,” but in the Air Force it’s called “Tech School.” That’s immediately following basic training. My original job was supposed to be Explosive Ordinance Disposal. So that’s what I began doing. Learning about various explosive devices, bombs, missiles, other projectiles; how to disarm them; which is mainly blow them up in place. We actually got to do that. That was pretty cool. One of the highlights of my service. But unfortunately, I didn’t make it through EOD training. Well, actually I say “fortunately” now in retrospect, but yeah.
So after that, I went to fuels tech school in Wichita Falls, Texas. And that was completed in six weeks, and then I was ready for active duty.
Williams
So, where did you go once you were ready for active duty?
Dull
My first and only duty station was Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona.
Williams
And what did you do there?
Dull
I refueled planes and also worked with the lab out there—the fuels lab. And operated the hydro system as well.
Williams
And how long were you there?
Dull
Well, that was my entire enlistment. However, I deployed out of there twice, so, give or take two deployments, five years. Well, actually, that’s a lie, ‘cause I forgot training and all that. I got there February 2009. So from February 2009 to end of May 2013.
Williams
So you said you had two deployments. Where was your first deployment to?
Dull
To [Doha, ]Qatar. Al Udeid Air Base.
Williams
And how long were you there?
Dull
Six months, give or take a few days.
Williams
And what did you do there?
Dull
I refueled planes. Yeah.
Williams
So describe a typical day when you were deployed there.
Dull
In Qatar?
Williams
Mmhmm.
Dull
Qatar was an awesome deployment, in retrospect. Well, a typical day was—at least before the Iraq War ended, ‘cause I was there right when that occurred, I think. It was very busy. You’d get there at work at about—well, you rode a bus to work at about—I—6:30 in the morning. Got there at 7. you’d have a morning briefing. Then you’d just take your backpack, you’d load it up—load it up with water, Gatorade—we used these energy drinks called “Rip Its.” If you can find them over here, you, like, stock up on them, because that’s what you had when you were deployed. But yeah, we had like this big stash of just free food that had been donated throughout. You just—that was basically it. You went to truck and you saw the—the shop again for lunch and the—again, when somebody was relieving you for the next shift to come on. After the Iraq—after the actions in Iraq started winding down, though the work load started to decrease, so you actually got to hang out in the building a little more throughout the day. So that was both good and bad. Got a lot of reading done.
Williams
So what was your first impression when you got to Qatar?
Dull
Mmm. Kind of a culture shock really, ‘cause, to be honest, I had never left the country before that so. And, I guess, the reality of actually being in a deployed zone, like, never in my—at that time, I think, 22-23 years of life—did I ever actually think I would be in that place. and—I don’t know—it was kind of scary at first, ‘cause I’m removed from everything. I don’t have as much freedom, just because—it’s not a distinctly oppressive environment. it’s just long shifts and you’re away from everything. Don’t have a car. Stuff like that. And I got so used to my little world over here that—so it was a bit of an adjustment.
Williams
Did you encounter any locals there?
Dull
Mmhmm.
Williams
What did you think of them?
Dull
Well, Qatar was—that was a very awesome experience, I thought. Very—very eye-opening, in a sense, too. We were actually—because it’s a non-hostile country, we were actually allowed to occasionally go downtown with commander’s approval. I got to do that about three times. I could have done it more, but I worked night shift and that basically meant going off base—meant being awake 24 hours straight [laughs]. But I met, um—I didn’t meet a lot of the actual Qatari nationals, ‘cause they’re considered royalty over there. You see them, but it’s not like you actually stop and converse with them. The few I did, they were seemingly pleasant. Um, there were a lot of Sri Lankan-Nepalese people there that—they worked most the areas and, you know, shops and whatnot.
I had my first experience with bargaining. It was an Indian man named Hakthor. I’ll never forget the guy, ‘cause I remember he’s got this jewelry shop. And I just remember I was looking for presents to send home and he tells me a price and I’m like, “No. I’m not paying that.” He’s like—so he sits here, like trying to justify. He’s like yelling, so I’m yelling back at him like, “No. No way. There’s no way I’m paying for that.” I’m finally walking out the door, I say—he’s like, “Come on. Just tell me a price.” I’m like, “Fine. I’ll give you about 400 riyal for that and that’s it. I’m leaving.” He’s like, “You know how much I sell these for? 800 riyal. I’ll do it for you, but nobody else.” So after I buy it, suddenly he’s my best friend. He’s like, “Thank you so much,” and starts giving me all this free stuff, asking me if I want tea. Pours me up some tea, asks me if I want it with milk, and we just sat there and talked. I still remember where his shop is, so if I’m ever in the souqs in Doha, Qatar, I know all I got to do is walk down this little alleyway and turn right and I can find Hakthor’s shop. So yep.
Williams
So tell me about your most memorable day there.
Dull
My most memorable day in Qatar?
Williams
Mmhmm.
Dull
Leaving [laughs]. Um, I don’t know, ‘cause most of the days were just so similar. Even the days off—like, I had my own routine. Um—crap. Most memorable day—yeah…
Williams
Well, why don’t you tell me about leaving—that day.
Dull
Okay. Well, it was a very elating experience, because you spent six months just daydreaming about all the stuff you were going to do once you got back. Because that’s one thing you realize once you get there, is how much of being stateside you take for granted. like being able to just drive somewhere and see people, just being able to go to your favorite sushi restaurant, or you know, just the various things you can do to unwind, like hiking out in the desert. That was something I liked to do out there.
There was a place called Picacho Peak [State Park] between Phoenix[, Arizona] and Tucson. I’d just—randomly, I’d drive there and hike the thing and come down, but you can’t do that over there. You live in a very small compound and—similar area, so—it was—everybody actually cheered when my plane actually left the tarmac, ‘cause we were finally going home. So…
Williams
So that was your first deployment.
Dull
Mmhmm.
Williams
Where was your second deployment?
Dull
That was Afghanistan.
Williams
And what was it like there?
Dull
Not as cushy [laughs].
Williams How so?
Dull
Well, because you don’t get to go off base there, ‘cause it’s actually dangerous outside. V-22 rockets and mortars are launched at you about twice a week. A little bit more during Ramadan, ‘cause I was deployed for those months. 9/11[2] was a particularly scary day. I’m sure those questions are coming up though.
But no, there’s the big burn pits. The air was always kind of smoky. The place was kind of just like—I was in Bagram Airfield[, Bagram, Parwan, Afghanistan], and it was basically like living on a big construction site with an airport. So a lot of left over buildings from the early days of the campaign, and also from the Russian occupation.[3] Right where I was living, there was this big, old, disused—well, it’s been renovated, but it used to be the air traffic control tower when the Russians[4] owned it. So we—it was rumored to be haunted. Yeah.
Williams
So how long were you in Afghanistan?
Dull
That was six months and some change. We actually got held over for a couple weeks. We were supposed to be back around Thanksgiving. didn’t get back until December 4th. Yeah.
Williams
Why was that?
Dull
Um, it’s tough to catch a flight out of there, to be honest. They had to constantly change the itineraries. ‘Cause every time somebody updates on social media, they see it, and then they got to change it, so someone outside isn’t watching and knowing what planes to shoot at. At least that was what I was told. I don’t know.
Williams
Makes sense.
Dull
Yeah.
Williams
What did you think of Afghanistan when you first got there?
Dull
I was a little more prepared for it, but when I finally saw, like, the living quarters and just the base itself, I thought, Man, I miss Qatar. I used to complain about that place and—yeah. yeah. At least I had a swimming pool there [laughs].
Williams
So in what way was Afghanistan’s living quarters different from Qatar’s?
Dull
Well, in Qatar—in Qatar, I lived in these things called—well, I don’t remember what the name for them was. I think it was “trailers” probably. It was two to a room—I mean, it was supposed to be four to a room, but they didn’t do that to you. They just put you in with two people. You had like a mini fridge and all that. Bathrooms were located outside though. that kind of sucked. It was basically just this long hallway with rooms off each side, and it was a single-story building. Guys and girls in both buildings—in—in the building. So you weren’t allowed to go in each other’s rooms but, you know.
Afghanistan—there were more dorm-like buildings. They were about three or four stories. Had bathrooms located inside, so that was cool. But it was like three and four to a room and a lot smaller. Yeah.
Williams
So what were your duties in Afghanistan?
Dull
Afghanistan—I ran the cryogenic element and the fuels department. So basically, my duties were to store liquid oxygen and issue it to the various agencies on base that needed it. mainly aerospace ground equipment. I was also in charge of shipping and receiving replacement cryogenic fluid from Al Udeid. So…
Williams
And what was your most memorable day in Afghanistan?
Dull
Hmm. Once again, a lot of similar days. I’ll say one of my favorite memories from that was the first time we had a movie night, just—yeah. It’s simple, but it was fun. I mean, it was towards the end, and I guess we were kind of like finally growing closer as a unit, just the few of us that were on day shift.
So one night, we decided to make this like, uh—it was somebody’s day off, so that’s how we do it. it was a tradition. We’d run to the chow hall and load up on like whatever free food we could get. It was all free, but, you know. Then we just rolled back to—we had this tent that was basically designated for recreation and stuff, like there was stuff to work out with. It was a big open space and you could just go in there and chill. And one of our supervisors—this guy, Sargent Little, had a projector. And so we just put a big sheet up, and just picked a movie off of somebody’s external, and just sat there and hung out. I mean, if there had been a 12-pack right there, it would have felt like home. So…
Williams
Do you remember what movie you watched?
Dull
Well, I remember we watched Spider-Man and [The] Cabin in the Woods—a couple others. So I don’t know. It was just one of those—it was where it almost felt like I was back home, so that was kind of cool.
Williams
So you said that 9/11 was particularly kind of scary. Why was that?
Dull
That’s ‘cause rockets were falling out of the sky all night around base. Every time—and every time something explodes, like usually they landed on the opposite side of where I was—the east side of base. so you’d hear a boom somewhere. It sounded like somebody was setting a dumpster down, you know? But then, all of a sudden, you’d hear the alarms going off and “Incoming! Incoming!” if they saw it on time. If they didn’t see it, then it’s “IDF[5] impact! Take shelter! Don IBA!”[6] You hear every emergency vehicle on the base and that just kept going on all night.
They were trying to have—they had a commemorative, like five—not 5K [kilometer]—but like “fun run” or something for, you know—to commemorate 9/11,[7] which, I think—I thought was a stupid idea, but that’s just me. Gathering a bunch of people in one spot in a war zone. Sure enough, at—this is the first time a rocket landed during the day. It’s like 8 in the morning, the sun’s up, and I just—I was in the bathroom, I heard “BOOM!” And I thought, They have a signal gun or something? They never shoot at us during the day. Sure enough, I hear the alarm. “IDF impact! Take shelter!” So that was when they actually started attacking us, you know, during the day, at more sporadic, less predictable times, so…
Williams
So in that event, what did you do? Like when they were attacking during the day?
Dull
Well, you stay in your dorm basically. You weren’t allowed to leave. If they—if you were like, you know—if you had to take shelter, there’s[sic] bunkers that you can dive into if you’re caught outside. If there’s nothing around, you’ve got to basically hit the ground, open your mouth, cover your ears.
But that definitely wasn’t the worst one, as far as my experience though. Worst one came a couple weeks later. I was, thankfully, still in the dorms, but, the PAX [passengers] terminal right across the street got hit, and that was a loud rocking explosion. Like, it was wasn’t just the sound of, you know, a dumpster being set down. It was real. like I jumped out of my seat. I was sitting there reading, and one of my roommates was outside, and he came running upstairs white as a ghost saying, “I heard it whistle right over my head.” And suddenly you just start to hear stuff just exploding all over the base. I was actually kind of scared at that one—at that point. So we were—yeah, I think I was about an hour—two hours late to work. One of our fuel trucks got hit. One of the contractors was driving it. If he had been parked about three feet back, he’d be dead. Our expeditor pick-up actually took shrapnel too. Busted out the back windows, holes up and down sides. So that was the closest to home it came. Actually, I think I kept a piece of shrapnel. So yeah.
Williams So do you have any, like—a funny story that sticks out in your mind while being either in Qatar or in Afghanistan?
Dull Um, yeah. Can I say it on a camera?
Williams
Go for it.
Dull
Okay. We had a supervisor that pissed us off. He was this guy named Sargent Myer and—just no one liked him but supervision. He threw people under the bus. He was in charge of another shop and he just dealt out these draconian punishments for rules that didn’t even exist. Like doing a walk around. Walking around your truck to inspect it after you parked it. It’s not necessary, but somebody didn’t do that, so he took away all their reading materials—whatever. This guy was a douche.
So I found out about a site called stickerjunkie.com, where you can pay like 25 dollars for a hundred stickers. So I was bored one day sitting at my computer, and I decided to mess around with it and wrote, “Sergeant Myer licks balls and jerks off donkeys with his mouth.” [laughs] My supervisor read it. He’s like, “That’s hilarious. You’re not buying that, are you?” And I’m like, “We get hazardous duty pay. sure, why not?” I bought a hundred of those stickers and distributed them to everybody in the—in the flight that was in on it. And those are to this day still decorating various places in Bagram Airfield, Kyrgyzstan Air Base,[8] um, a jet engine somewhere in Al Udeid. Yeah [laughs].
Williams
How did your supervisor feel about that? [laughs].
Dull
Well, he didn’t find out until like the last day we left. He saw one of them sitting on the USO [United Service Organizations. So he’s like, “Oh, no.” He tried to laugh it off, you know, like, “It’s cool. I’m not mad,” but he was. He had no idea who did it to him either.
Williams
So did you serve anywhere else overseas other than Qatar and Afghanistan?
Dull
No.
Williams
What did—or how did you feel once you were leaving Afghanistan? Describe your last day there.
Dull
Um, a lot of kind of mixed emotions. I was definitely glad, but—I don’t know. There was just a lot—um, my plan was—well, this is what ended up happening. My deed of discharge was coming up about four months after I got back from Afghanistan. So there was a lot of that on my mind. Knowing that once I landed, I was pretty much gonna have to start getting ready to, um, basically end my entire military career and move back to Florida. Most of that was already in the works. It was just applying to UCF and getting my affairs in order, so there was a bitter sweetness.
Plus, I was in a relationship that was kind of just on its downward spiral. Like, I’d actually—we’d actually broken up once like a week before I got back, but then got back together and—I don’t know. it was just different. I was definitely glad to be back, of course, but it wasn’t—it wasn’t the elating experience that it was leaving Qatar. I guess, just because—I don’t know. I was in a different place then. So…
Williams
So you said that you were in a relationship while you were overseas in Afghanistan?
Dull
Yeah.
Williams
What was that like?
Dull
Hmm. Well, definitely strained. Part of it was—I don’t know. Um, it was cool at first, but that was because we had like just met up before I left, so we were still in that stage of the relationship. We were talking everyday, messaging each other on Facebook, talking about the future when I get back. I’d always—I’d post YouTube songs on her Facebook, you know. Cute stuff like that.
But, after a while, it just sort of—I don’t know—tapered off. I said something insensitive at some point, I guess. I don’t know. I’d probably be—I undoubtedly became insensitive, because, after a while, the stress of the place just gets to you. Pretty soon you can’t, you know—you’re not in a good mood. When you’ve seen enough fallen warrior ceremonies—I helped out with a couple casket missions. I had to see casualties, um, you know—you see stuff like that, suddenly you don’t really want to sit here and type out, “Oh, I love you,” and “Hugs and kisses,” and “Butterflies,” and, you know. So she sees that change and can’t really appreciate it, I guess. so pretty soon, every conversation we were having was just—had this undercurrent of like—what’s the word I’m looking for—I actually wrote a non-fiction piece about it that described it perfectly, but I’ll be damned if I can think of it now. But yeah. Needless to say, there was a lot of strain on that. I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did.
Williams
So what has life been like after leaving the service?
Dull
It was a stressful transition for me, but part of that was ‘cause, as soon as I landed from Afghanistan, I was trying to deconstruct that life and try and start a new one so. I didn’t really have the time to come down from it, I guess. Um, yeah. I dealt with a lot of just anxiety and depression. I had some—I’d say alcohol abuse. I wasn’t an alcoholic, but it was enough to where it was causing certain people—the VA [Veterans Administration] and others concern. Yeah.
So I don’t know, there was a long period when I first got back here where I was consistently pissed off 24/7. If I wasn’t mad, pissed off, whatever, I was depressed. Um, it sucks, but I only remember like one or two days of that first summer here being actually, you know, kind of happy and at peace. Part of that is just—school’s tough, and part of it was an end of another relationship in Arizona that was anterior to the military. But, also yeah. Just having to face that lack of structure for the first time in a while and kind of being in an alien place again. so…
Williams
So do you feel like you still kind of deal with that depression and anxiety today? Or have you kind of gotten over it a little bit?
Dull
I’m definitely a lot better off now than I was a year ago. So it’s still there, but most of that is mostly early childhood stuff that, according to my psychotherapist, was reactivated by my experiences in the military. So, um, yeah. So still kind of a struggle, but not near as bad.
Williams
When was your discharge date for the military?
Dull
19 May 2013.
Williams
And did you earn any awards or medals for your service?
Dull
Mmhmm. There are several medals that they give you, like I have Outstanding Unit Award. That wasn’t a personal achievement. That was—I won an achievement medal for my duties in Qatar, actually. and that was probably the only one I can think of that I earned on my own personal merit. And that was just for, um—for working hard, basically being proactive. I impressed enough people and also did some volunteering there too. I took some college courses while I was over there and helped process some blood units to send to other areas of the AOR [area of responsibility]. so…
Williams
So what are you doing today?
Dull
Today? As in—this. Okay. So today I’m doing an oral history project. Then I’m—I’ve got a class—Women in Hispanic Literature. then I’m going to be conducting my own interview on my friend, Lynette, for that same class. I’m supposed to go to my anthropology lecture hall today, and then community group at my church tonight. and that’s about it. Revising a story.
Williams
So what do you do in like your everyday life now-a-days?
Dull
Day-to-day life. I work at the VARC [Veterans Academic Resource Center] about three hours a day there. just helping out other student veterans with whatever issues they have. Our big focus this semester, besides Military Appreciation Week, was just trying to get people off the academic probation list, touching base with them, seeing what we can do to them to help them out and try to direct them to whatever resources we have available for them.
Then I’m taking a full course load. I’m majoring in Creative Writing, so—taking Women in Hispanic Lit, ‘cause you need literature courses and diversity. Advanced Fiction Writing. I’m an intern at The Florida Review, as well. So I’ve been doing a lot of work with them. And then just a gen[eral]-ed[ucation] class. so…
Williams
Do you feel that working at the VARC and helping other veteran students—do you feel like that helps you as well?
Dull
Mmhmm. Yeah.
Williams
In what ways?
Dull
Well, it’s fulfilling to know that you can—that you’ve helped somebody out. And I also enjoy interacting with the other veterans on campus too. I’ve grown pretty close with the work study staff there, as well. Like, we all hang out together and everything. And I’ve made a lot of friends just from people coming in and out of the—out of the VARC. So…
Williams
So how did your time in the Air Force affect your life today?
Dull
Well, mostly positive. I mean, before I was living in an apartment in Cocoa Beach with a drug dealer, and a—yeah—psychopath. and I basically had a decision to make. It was either stay in this lifestyle and struggle. I’d undoubtedly end up in jail. No future there. I was always working minimum wage jobs.
Or I could join the military, have a shot at going to college. I’d always wanted to be an author, and I’d always wanted to go to college, but didn’t really get that opportunity coming out of high school. So the military definitely served its purpose. The GI Bill [Servicemen’s Readjustment Act of 1944] had been excellent. I’m done with most of the requirements for my degree next semester. So, yeah. I’ve basically attained a dream. Came at a price though, but…
Williams
Is there anything else that we have not discussed that you would like to talk about?
Dull
Hmm. Not that I can think of.
Williams
Alright.
Dull
I’m better with questions, so…
Williams
Alright. Well, that will conclude the interview. Thank you so much for your service and for talking with us today.
Dull
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you.
Hiltz
Today is, um—it is November 14th, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Phil—Philip Rogers, um, who served in the Navy from 1978 through—to 1998. Mr. Rogers served as an instructor at the Naval [Nuclear] Power School. Uh, he retired as a Commander. My name is Killian Hiltz, I am interviewing, uh, Mr. Rogers as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans Community History Project. We are recording this interview, uh, at Orlando, Florida. Um, thank you, Mr. Rogers. Um, uh, where and when were you born?
Rogers
I was born in the Bronx[, New York City], New York, uh, in 1953.
Hiltz
Uh, what was your childhood like?
Rogers
Uh, grew up in a modest, you know, tenant apartment. Went to public schools, um, two years of private schools, went—and then Lehman College, which is a ci—city school. Did that, uh—did that for, you know—through—and then I worked a little bit. Um, and probably when I was like 22, I went off to graduate school in Indiana.
Hiltz
Um, what was the private school like?
Rogers
It was good. It was a little more disciplined. The schools I was[sic] in was[sic] a little rough, so my parents took me out to a more, you know—less chance of getting hurt [laughs]—school. Um…
Hiltz
Um, what was, um—what was college like, for you?
Rogers
I liked it. I was a commuter. I went back and forth on the train, uh, eh, because we didn’t have a car. So we—I travelled on the train to high school and to college for eight years. Uphill both ways—just joking [laughs]. Um, uh, so I traveled that way, uh, and did my four years there, and I got a degree in chemistry from, eh, um, Lehman College.
Hiltz
Uh, you mentioned that you went to graduate school, as well.
Rogers
Yes.
Hiltz
Uh, what was your gra—what was your grad…
Rogers
Uh, I got a Master’s degree in chemistry, entomology, from Indiana University. I was in the PhD[1] program, but when the Navy came looking for people, I kinda said, Well, I wanna do that. so I kinda left with a Master’s degree and went on to, uh, um—the, um—took the Master’s and then went on to the Navy.
Hiltz
Um, what did your parents do for a living?
Rogers
My father was a laborer, worked in a baker[sic], and my mother was just stay-at-home—stay-at-home mom.
Hiltz
Did you have any siblings?
Rogers
Brother. Still have a brother. Actually, he lives in Orlando. So…
Hiltz
Uh, did, uh—your brother also join the service?
Rogers
No, no. He never did. No.
Hiltz
Um, did, uh—did anyone in your family before you, uh, serve as enlisted or commissioned?
Rogers
Yes, my father was—was, um, enlisted in, uh, World—World War II. Um, and my grandfather was in World War I.
Hiltz
Uh, what branches did they serve?
Rogers
Army. Both of them, Army.
Hiltz
Uh, did they see combat?
Rogers
Uh, yes. Both of them did. Uh, my—In fact, my grandfather had a Purple Heart, and, uh, my father didn’t get a medal, but he had—he had some kind of foot injury or something, but—yeah. So…
Hiltz
Uh, uh, what caused you to become a commissioned officer?
Rogers
Well, it was a—it’s a long story. It was like, um— let’s see. Indiana University—it’s kind of cold up there—Bloomington, Indiana. It was like six degrees below zero [sniffs], and, uh, the Navy had a little brochure says—saying, “Would you like to fly to Orlando on the Navy this weekend?” Free. Orlando, Florida. So I said, “Sure.” I had no intention to go into the military—zero. So I went, “Okay. Fine.” so I signed up, and then I had to go take some tests, you know—you know, academic tests and physical tests, and, uh—and then they said,”Well, You know, Admiral [Hyman George] Rickover,” who is the Father of the Nuclear Navy, “would like to interview you in Washington D.C.,” you know, “Would —you—would you like to go?”
So they sent me to—first, let’s go back up. Before I went there, they—they told me I was going for an interview. So they showed me the school—so they sent me down here as promised for the trip down here, so I went to the trip in Orlando, and it was great. [Walt] Disney World—they took us to Disney World and showed us—the Nuclear Power School, by the way, was in Orlando, at that time, okay? Just up the road here, by Bennett Drive. Um, so they showed me the school, and it was like 80 degrees. It was really nice. They hooked me in, so I’m like, I’d like to go there. It was—it was an academic job, because, you know, I liked teaching, and it was an academic job, and, you know, I would get paid a lot more there as a graduate student, than as a graduate student. So, uh—so I said, “Okay. It sounds good to me.”
So then I went to Washington D.C., uh, for an interview, and, uh, one thing you got to understand that in that the nuclear—in the nuclear program, it’s kind of a select program, and that the admiral that is in charge—the four-star admiral is about as high as you can go in the Navy. He interviews all the applicants, you know, that—that—that come into the program, and so you go there for a day of tests. Take a bunch of written tests, oral exams. They ask all kinds of physical questions, and—and then they ask how to explain things and they do that, and at the end, you go see Admiral Rickover—Hyman Rickover. So I go into this guy’s office, and he’s a four-star admiral, and he’s sitting in a chair. Very little man, probably 5’5”, uh, white grey hair, he was about 78, at the time, and, uh, he—so I sat down. I had long hair, I was a graduate student, I had no inkling of military at all in me.
So I sat down, and, uh, the Admiral says to me, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me and the Admiral says to me— um, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me, right? So the Admiral says to me, “Wha—what’s that? What’s that pin on your, uh, lapel there?” So I took it off and I said, “Well, um, this means I’m a member of the American Chemical Society.” And he jumped at me, and he says to me like this—he says, “Let me see that blicity pin.” ‘Kay? I don’t want to put any expletives on this tape, but he—but, uh, he said, uh, um, “Let me see that pin.” so I put it in his hand, and—and he said—looked at me in the eye—and he goes, “How do you know I know more chemistry than you do? Maybe I should keep this pin.” And I said, “Admiral, if that’s the case, then you can get your own pin.” Then he threw is back at me, and then he says, uh, “Did any of the girls tell you that you were good-looking?” I said, “Sure. All the time.” He says, “That’s a proposition. You don’t even know the facts of life. Get out of my office.”
So this was my interview with a four-star admiral. So I said, Well, I dunno. I guess I didn’t get that job. So I Walked down the hall, and this captain, that[sic] went in there with me, said, “Congratulations. The Admiral selected you to be an instructor at Nuclear Power School.” So I said, “Great.” so I signed up, finished my—my dissertation for my Master’s degree, and then I, uh—I came down to Orlando. Went—went to some school—uh, Officer School—Officer Indoctrination School, and then I came to Orlando in 1978. I was commissioned in March of 1978, I believe, and, um, —then I, Um, uh, came to or—Orlando in May. Went—went to some—in the school—I went to the school in between then about six weeks. So I—I arrived down here in like May of 1978—in Orlando, and I spent the next four and a half years here.
Hiltz
Uh, what was your officer, uh, training like?
Rogers
It wasn’t the standard training that—that you’d normally get. It’s kind of like training—‘cause we weren’t expected to stay in the Navy. We were expected to go in for our four, you know—our—our—our four-year promise, and then leave, Right? So it was very watered down, so to speak. It was not very rigorous as some—some. It was like the same training lawyers get, the doctors get, and—and nurses, the—the professional, you know—the training the professionals gets. It’s [inaudible] how do you—how you act like an officer, and—and, you know—so nothing—nothing too, uh, exotic.
Hiltz
Uh, what was your family and friends; reaction to you becoming a commissioned officer?
Rogers
Well, that was funny, because my father was enlisted and he—he had some grumbling about officers. He goes, “I remember—I remember this officer made me salute him.” He goes, “He was a big jerk. I hope you’re not like that.” So [laughs]—so he was a little—he was proud, but yet, he was saying, you know, you gotta be a little humble, you know, when you’re doing this stuff too. So—But I think he was proud that—that I went in there, you know, and—and did it. So, like I said, I had no— I just did it, because hey, it was great. I wanted to go teach and the Navy’s got this job to go teach, you know? I said, I’m not staying in. I said, Honest, no way I’m staying, you know?
So then I did my four years. I taught thermodynamics, I taught nuclear physics, you know, regular classical physics, I taught chemistry, radiological—all the stuff, and the thing about that Nuclear Power School: they—they teach you how to teach a class, you know? They teach you how to talk to people, how to make eye contact, how to go back and forth and relate information. I still carry that—that talent to this day, with how they taught me how to do that. So, it was really—it was really good. So I really had—it was the best job of my life. I mean, it was, you know, basically, a day job. No deployment—nothing. It was great for four years. You know, unfortunately, you know, after four years, they want you to leave, ‘cause in the Navy, you get to move up or you move out. So—so that’s what happened.
Hiltz
‘Kay. So, uh…
Rogers
[sniffs].
Hiltz
What happened after those four years?
Rogers
Well, after four years, normally, you get out, right? And this was right at the height of the Cold War, ‘round 19—it was around 1982, and they needed people with engineering background—not necessarily ship driving experience, but with some engineering background, and some knowledge of chemistry, physics—To work on shipyards, to help when the ships—Submarines come in [sniffs]. They help the submarines get ready for sea, and—and fix them, and things like that—to oversee that. So they asked if, you know, I would like to go do that, and I said, “Eh, I’ll think about it,” and then they said, “Would you like to go to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and do it?” [laughs]. So I said, “Hm. Okay. I’ll—that sounds good to me.”
So I did—I went into what is called the “Engineering Duty Officer Program,” so I went in—which is basically engineering. I—I was very restricted, because I’m colorblind. Eh, when I took my physical, I was actually—they determined that I was colorblind, so I could not drive a ship. So I was restricted as to what I could do. So, I mean—but I could do the engineering stuff, so I was—I became a Restricted Line Officer, which means you don’t drive the ships, but you can do a lot of other things naval officers do. So—so I did that.
I was—I went to Submarine School after that, I went to Engineering Du—Duty Officer School, and Nuclear Ship Superintendent School, which show you—show you how to manage repairs of a ship. Not that I would do the repairs myself, but I oversee the people doing it, right? And interface with the ship, as a—as a representative from the Navy to get[?] that, and I did that for about—about, uh, three years, right? And then—it was okay, but it wasn’t teaching. I really wanted to teach.
Um, so what—what I did after that time is: I—I—I got out of the Navy in 1986, but I stayed in the [Naval] Reserves, uh, as a—as a[sic] Engineering Duty Officer. Oh, also, on that time while I was on active duty, I got my Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins, which is, you know specialized in submarine repair, and then, after that, um, I got out of the Navy and tended my resignation, but I stayed on—I stayed in the Reserves, and then, I came down to, uh—went down to, um, South Florida. I took a job at a nuclear power plant. I was an instructor, right? Teaching down there, and I stayed in the Reserves, and I drilled for the next 12 years. I—I drilled, uh—drilled my—my—from Jensen Beach, which is about 130 miles from here, to Orlando. I drilled every week—once every week—and two weeks a year, and I—I went up through the chain there, [inaudible], and got my rank there, up to—and made Commander in the Reserves in 1994.
Hiltz
Uh, what, uh—what was your schooling like, when you were going through the Submarine and Engineering [Duty Officer] Schools—Oh, um, when you were still in the active? What was that like?
Rogers
Oh, that was, uh—it wasn’t—I mean, it was okay. It was a—was a—it was kinda challenging, because, Uh, you had to—you had to go and know—know how to—and they put you in a room, and they start leaking the pipes, and, you know, you gotta, you know, repair the pipe, so you don’t drown and stuff like that, and then, you know that—you learn a little bit about navigation and how to—how to basically, uh, go through it. I was a little bit senior. I was a Lieutenant when I went through, and most of them were ensigns that[sic] went through there, but, Uh, you know, it was basically how to respond to emergencies on submarines, and then, you know, dive the ship up and down. I was able to do that[?]. I did a—I was able to surface the ship and dive the ship. I did that several times on the simulator and—and in real life— in a real submarine.
You know, and one thing that I did not—I neglected to mention is that I was on a submarine for two months, as part of my qualification program. So I was on the Nathan Hale, and we went out—and I can’t tell you where we went—but we went out somewhere in the ocean, and we had missiles on the ship. Uh, we—that was a deterrent patrol that I had to go through to get my qualification, you know, to do that.
Hiltz
Yeah.
Rogers
So—and then—then that’s [inaudible]. Nuclear Ship Superintendent School is very technical. It was like how to ma—manage radiation. The Navy is very sensitive to—to nuclear safety and the shipyards have to be—everything perfect. So they want people who are going to follow the rules and know what they’re doing. So they send us to special school to—to kinda—to kinda help us understand how to manage this[sic] nuclear, uh, projects at the shipyard.
Hiltz
Uh, what, uh— was your, uh—the submarine’s class? Do you—do you know?
Rogers
Yes, it’s a—it’s a—it was an SSBN [Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines]. It was a ballistic nuclear submarine, uh, it’s since, has been way since decommissioned. It was a pretty old ship, when I was on it Um, so it carried x number of missiles, and, uh, I ‘m not sure if that is classified anymore, but it’s so many missiles, and what we did was just go out there and wait—wait for launch orders, which, thankfully, never came. So I never really fought in hot war, but I was in the Cold War, which kinda was preventing the big war [laughs]. So…
Hiltz
Um, what was it like—what was life like on the submarine?
Rogers
Um, it was very, uh, interesting. It was kind of lonely. Uh, Now, I knew I was only going to be on it for like one patrol, so it was okay, you know? It was interesting. Got to do some—some interesting things, but, for the most part, you really eat a lot. They have—they have—you can eat up to four times a day. It’s just like a cruise ship, but you work [laughs], right? So you have breakfast, you have lunch, you have dinner, and then you have MIDRATS [Midnight Rations] at night, depending on your shift. They always got meals going on in a submarine, so you can eat, eat, eat, and I actually gained 15 pounds, you know, on the submarine, you know? So it was a—it was a bit of a weight curve, trying to get the weight off [laughs], but, uh, you know, it was good. I got the up and down—A lot of stuff in the submarine, you don’t know everything, because a lot of it’s classified, like what they targeted—the stuff—I couldn’t see that. So I never knew where we really were at. So it was all a part of, you know—it was kind of a tense time, with the Cold War. We were in secret locations and stuff like that.
Hiltz
Uh, what was the crew like?
Rogers
Crew was good. I mean, they were—they knew I was a short-timer, so they—they kidded me around a little bit, and—and—‘cause they knew. They called me the “rider.” You know, and they said, “You’re just in your rack all day. That’s all you do. You don’t do real work.” but they were kinda—they were in a kidding type of way, right? And I was called—they called me the “assistant engineer.” So I—I—I oversee some training lessons and did stuff like that for them, but I stood the watch. You know, on the submarine ship, you stand a watch, you’re—you’re good, because, uh, somebody else doesn’t have to stand the watch for diving officer. I did that. So, uh…
Hiltz
Uh, what was your time in Hawaii like?
Rogers
Oh, it was great. It was, uh, beautiful—the most beautiful places on Earth. It’s, uh—nice mountains, and the job was pretty stressful—getting the ships out—because, like I said, this is the height of the Cold War, and the ships came in. they had to get repaired in a certain window, Because there are only so many submarines out there. One comes in, and, uh, they only got coverage for a certain amount. So you gotta get that ship out on time, and if it’s not on time—not out on time, some people up high up don’t get too happy about that. So we gotta make sure that everything’s done timely and safely. So not only—and we just couldn’t—since it’s a nuclear submarine—First of all, nuclear submarines can be hazardous in themselves, and you got reactors on ‘em, and you gotta be extra special careful with respect to nuclear safety, and so sometimes, some things take a little longer than you might anticipate. So, uh, you always have that—you always have that bal—and I was in charge, so if the ship was late, it was on me. You know, I had to answer for it. So...
Hiltz
Uh, did, uh—did you ever have any incidents happen, during that time?
Rogers
Well, yeah. Um, I was on one submarine. When—when I was in the shipyard, we occasionally had to go out ride submarines when—after repairing them, and then one of the hydraulic plants went on fire. So it was a submarine underwater, and it was on fire, but the crew is so trained. It was like, “Okay. Fine.” Just like training—t was no different than when we had the training. We went over there, swoosh, they put it out, and then we—we went on to eat for lunch. So it was like okay.
They were very seasoned, very seasoned crew. Um, the chiefs in the Navy—they really—I was an officer, but the chiefs in the Navy—they, you know—they run the show. They—they get the people to do the work, and so my admiration is for the chiefs, you know, [inaudible] folks. They’re—they’re the ones that make it happen, you know? We get the credit, most of the time. Sometimes, we get the blame, as the officers, but that’s kind of the way it is, but they’re the ones that—the enlisted guys—they’re the ones that[sic]—that[sic] make it work. So my father kind of sent me a lesson, when he said, “You’re gonna—you’re gonna be this hotshot officer, but you’re going to learn who does the work.” And I did.
Hiltz
Uh, do you have any, uh, moments that stand out, during your time in, um, Hawaii or Orlando?
Rogers
Um, well, one day, uh—well, I can say that, at the end, I—I—I made a suggestion to move the repair somewhere where it would be cheaper or a little more cost-effective, and—and still do it safely, and that—they—they actually listened to me and did it. So when I left—I don’t know how that went, but it wa—it did save some money. So that was—that was a good, good part of it, uh—good part of it, but a lot of that—I remember it was a lot of stress on that, but—but that was a good part of it, at—at—at—at the end there.
So—and I would still dock ships, you know—dry docked ships that come into the shipyard, and a dry dock is: you—you—you bring a ship in, and to work on the hull of a ship, you can’t—can’t be in the water, right? So you—you put the ship on blocks, you drain the dry dock down, and then you go into the ship, and you do what you gotta do, back—and back up. Then you put the water back in, and then you float the ship out, but Putting the ship on blocks is a—a, you know—a very engineering-involved thing. So, as the docking officer, I had to do the calculations to make sure the ship would sit on the block right and stay there, and do all those calculations and stuff.
Hiltz
‘Kay. Um, so, um, coming back now to, uh, your—your—how was your transition from being active duty to Reserve?
Rogers
Uh, not really—not really, um,—because I never had too many deployments, so I was always with my family. Like I said, I had a[sic] atypical career. I [inaudible] —I had it good, really. Um, so I didn’t have a lot—other than that one deployment, right? So when I went to Reserves, you know, I really was away from home more in the Reserves than when I was active duty, ‘cause I would have to drive to Orlando on—on the weekends, And then the two weeks a year, uh, I mean, again, I was with a lot of engineers. I had in my group, we had like PhDs, we had, you know, professional engineers. All highly, you know—highly educated people that[sic] worked for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], or worked for the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center, or whatever, and then they did the Reserves stuff, you know, on the side, ‘cause they were—they had this engineering background.
So I didn’t find too much of a, uh—uh, a transition. I went from a kind of academic environment, uh, to that. Now, I had a little more experience than a lot of the Reserves, ‘cause I actually was a[sic], uh, active duty—engineering duty officer, and a lot of them just came in the Reserves. So I had a little—a little more experience actually being there. I had the qualifications for the Dolphins and stuff like that. So that helped me a little bit, you know, with getting my advancements, you know, as I—as I, you know, got promoted on. So I also had some good leaders that[sic]—that[sic] showed me the ropes in the Reserves. That—that really helped me.
Hiltz
Do you remember any of those?
Rogers
Oh, I do. I, uh—can I say their names?
Hiltz
Oh, yep.
Rogers
Or whatever?
Hiltz
Yeah.
Rogers
I remember one, uh—one key person that[sic] was a—was a, eh—he was a[sic] Admiral: Rear Admiral Steve Israel. He was, uh, a great mentor to me. Um, when I first came in the Reserves, he kinda took me under his wing, kinda showed me the—the life in the Reserves, and, uh—and we worked together. I worked within several of his units, when he was a—When I met him, he was a Commander, and then, as he went through, he became Captain, and then ultimately, he became—became an Admiral, and I still, you know, am still in contact with him, you know, to this day, but He was very, very—he was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate, very good about dealing with people, and stuff like that, and another person gr—Captain Jim Tully. I worked for him, and I took his Reserve unit when he—when he left that unit to go to another unit, I took over for him in, uh—in—for him, in that—in that capacity. So he always mentored me too, and he’s—he’s actually the Mayor of Titusville. Yeah. So [laughs]—but He’s great—he is one of the—one of the best leaders I’ve ever met, and one of the most, uh—most—talk about people—talk about people with integrity, and people in political office. Well, he’s got political office, and I don’t know anybody with more integrity than that man does have. He’s just amazing. So we still keep in touch. Yeah. So…
Hiltz
Do you, um—do you have any stories or memories from your—from your time in the—in the Reserves that stand out?
Rogers
Well, again, going back to the, you know—the enlisted people run the show. Uh, When I got—when I got command of my unit, I—I—I had a chief who was a Mensa [International]—high IQ [intelligence quotient] guy. Much smarter than I would ever be, and I asked his advice, you know, all the time, and that’s why my unit was so successful, and he helped me, give me advice on how to do things, and, you know, it went on from there. So I relied heavily on that. So I never—I never—I only made a couple of mistakes when I was a junior officer, thinking I knew it all, but that didn’t last out. Found out: the more senior I got, the less I thought I knew [laughs]. I knew more I had to rely on people that[sic] working[sic] for me. I mean, that’s the key to success. Um, and, uh—so—so that was very, very helpful.
Hiltz
Um, during—during the time in the Navy, um, did you, um—Um, what was—what was life like, um, in the [Ronald Wilson] Reagan years?[2]
Rogers
Oh, life was good. Reagan was president—in fact, I saw Reagan come in the airport in Hon—Honolulu[, Hawaii], and, uh, you know, I am a big Reagan fan. Uh, and, uh, ‘cause I, eh—we grew up to kinda get the Cold War—and one of the beautiful things was when I finally got into the Reserves, there—there—the war we were fighting, we really won it, because even though it wasn’t a hot war, the Soviet Union collapsed. We stood up to them and they’re gone. Now, they’re rattling their little sword again, but—but, at—at least at that time, they were—we—we won that. So, I mean, I liked the war. I felt like we had a strength in the nation for—for—for that, due to Reagan and the buildup—the buildup he did. I just kinda make the Russians[3]—“Well, we can’t keep up with this.” So…
Hiltz Uh, how did the—the—in that case, how did the, uh—the breaking down of the Wall in Berlin[, Germany] make you feel?
Rogers
I thought it was great. I says[sic], “Wow. This is a great thing.” Because I grew up—when I grew up in the—in the [19]50s, the—the—I mean, I grew up during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we thought we were going to World War III. I mean, it was right—right around the corner. I mean, my father was shaking and white ashen[?], ‘cause I looked at him—well, and I was only—what? I don’t know. 11—10 years old, or something like that, and—and it’s just like—he’s shaking white. Something—something’s going on here, and—and that was the closest we’ve—we’ve ever come, right? And, um—and there were some things—even during the Cold War, there were some things that happened, which we don’t want to go into, but, you know—but, for the most part, there was peace, right? So when the—when the [Berlin] Wall came down, Reagan said, “Tear down this wall,” and it happened. So that was—that was a good thing, and then, when, uh—I would never had believed it when it happened—they said the Soviet Union collapsed. It was like, Wow.
Hiltz
Um, in co—and in comparison, how are the [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton years in the Navy?
Rogers
Well, uh, Clinton—I mean, to a—see, Clinton was—he— ‘90s, uh, I got my senior—I think he signed my, uh—uh, my—my, uh—my promotion to Commander, and also he signed my discharge—my—my retirement paper, uh, in ’98, right? So—so I have some good—good, uh, Um, you know—He treated, you know, the military well too, you know? He was a smart, smart guy. Uh…
Hiltz
Um, how were your, uh, final years in the Navy, eh, eh—in the Navy Reserves?
Rogers
Good. Um, I mean, it was good. Uh, I was like—I had command of the unit, and then I was traveling so much back and forth, it was like, okay, you know? I was getting up for Captain, and I just decided that was time to, you know—time to—I didn’t make Captain the first pass. So I said, “Okay.” I had another chance, but I decided, you know, to get out. Um, so I decided just to—to go spend more time at my other job.
Hiltz
What was your other job, at that point?
Rogers
Oh, I worked at a nuclear power plant, teaching chemistry, physics. The same thing I did in Nuclear Power School, right? So—right.
Hiltz
So what was life like after the Navy?
Rogers
Well, it just went from teaching for the Navy and the submarine stuff and still have the resources—so it was really—To me, it wasn’t an abrupt end. It was a, uh, gradual transition over the years, ‘cause I was, uh, in active duty for eight years, Reserves for 12. So it was kind of a long—and then I—well, during the 12 years, I had my civilian job. So I—I kinda worked the two together, you know? Worked the two together. So—and As, you know, eh—as I went through my job, and I got more senior in the Navy, more senior in the Navy, and then got up there. I mean, Commander is pretty high up, I guess. So, you know…
Hiltz
Um, how did the Americans actually treat you, while you were in the Navy?
Rogers
The who?
Hiltz
The Americans. The civilians.
Rogers
The civilians? Oh, yeah. No problem. We didn’t have that Vietnam Syndrome, where, you know—where they—they spit on me or anything like that. Uh, I think today though—I mean, I think people are more appreciative of the military today, than they were even back when—when I was in there. I did used to do some recruiting for—for, uh, the Nuclear Power School, when I was at Nuclear Power School. I went out to the West Coast, and sometimes, I didn’t get a very friendly reception by the—the people on the campus at Washington University. Over there, they didn’t quite like my presence there. So—But I think today, I—I think the American people are more—are a lot more behind the troops. A lot more than compared to Vietnam [War] and even than when I was in. I think they realize what really they do for them.
Hiltz
Did you have any dealings with UCF at that time?
Rogers
I did actually. I, uh—I took a couple of classes here in 1982, when this campus was just a few buildings. So Industrial Chemistry, I took a few courses, because I was living in Orlando, and, you know, I just—I just did that. It didn’t end up in degree—I didn’t end up in a degree. I just have the classes. I think I have like 15 credits. Um, uh, Dr. [Gerald] Mattson—I think I had him, and I think he is still here, in the chemistry department. Um, so, uh—so I had that, and, you know, we were just kinda starting out. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we—we came to UCF. She had to take an education course and sit in these little seats, you know, she could barely fit into it. It was kinda—we went together. She took a [inaudible] some education courses, and I did the chemistry stuff. So—so yeah. UCF is a little part of my time here.
Hiltz
Um, you mentioned your wife. Um, did you—you met her while you were in the Navy?
Rogers
Actually, I met my wife in Orlando, okay? Um, uh, when I was an instructor here, I worked with another instructor, and his wife worked at a school, and she knew somebody. So they set this up on a blind date, and, uh, I mean, that was it. We’re married for 34 years.
Hiltz
Fantastic. Um, did she go with you to, uh, Hawaii?
Rogers
Oh, yeah. You bet she did. Now, obviously—and, In fact, we were on the submarine. Um, they did a dependents’ cruise. Now, what a dependents cruise is: you can actually come on a submarine, right? They let the dependents come on the submarine. So she actually came on the submarine with her father, and we did, uh, some op[eration]s for them. We dove the ship, and surfaced the ship, and did all these things, and they got to eat.
You know, so she comes in—she comes into the submarine. Now, on a submarine, you gotta understand: there’s a wardroom, just like this, and at the head of the table, there’s the Captain, and that’s the Captain’s chair. Nobody sits in the chair. So what does my wife do? She comes in and plops down right in the Captain’s chair, and I kinda say, “I don’t [inaudible] you need to sit there.” [laughs] So I rise her about that [inaudible], but she is probably one of the few ladies that[sic] were ever on a submarine—a nuclear submarine. Now, Of course, they are getting women into the program, but at that time, you know, she—she thought was kind of fun. So after being at sea for a little bit on the submarine, And then, I—she went off, and then shortly after that, I—I came back home. So that was—that kind of fun.
Hiltz
That’s fantastic. Um, um, how did the events of 9/11[4] effect you?
Rogers
Uh, I was pissed, right? I was really mad that we couldn’t—that something like that could happen here. Uh, and I don’t know. You can point fingers and blame, but, you know, I, eh—it—it’s just one of those things that we got to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Uh, it’s one of those—it ripped every American apart, you know, and—and including me. Now, I was actually retired already. Um, so I, um, was already done. Uh, I mean, I could have been called to active duty, but they didn’t. I’m too old already, I guess. So—so they didn’t bother, you know, calling me up, but, uh—so yeah. That was kind of…
Hiltz
Did you still have any, uh—were any of your friends still in the—in active…
Roger
Yeah, I think Captain Tully, that[sic] I talked to you about. I think he was still in at that time, and, uh, then he retired subsequently after that. So, um, yes.
Hiltz
Um, what was one of the most important lessons that you learned from the Navy?
Rogers
Uh, leadership. How to manage people and how to respect people, and just, of course, you just gotta—because you got all the stripes on doesn’t mean you know everything, and, I mean, that was the lesson my father tried to let me know before I went in there, and I did some stupid things. “Oh, I am in charge, because I’m an officer.” You know, I only did that once or twice, and then I remembered that I had better relying on the chiefs more, because they’re really the ones that really kinda know what’s going on [laughs]. So I did that. So a little humility’s a good thing.
Hiltz
Um, do you have any, uh, messages that you would like to tell the young people of America today?
Rogers
Uh, yeah, the military’s a great way to go, especially if you got some technological talent. Eh, you—that—that Navy instructor program is a great way to get in, serve your country four years. You don’t have to stay in. You can teach at the Nuclear Power School, you can teach [inaudible] people who are really willing to learn, and they have to be, and they are really good students, and you—you get to teach stuff, and you come away with some great teaching skills that, at the end of it—that you can—that you can use anywhere else, you know? So, you know, To this day, I could teach anybody off the street how—how a steam engine works and so they would understand it. So, I mean, it’s am—an amazing thing.
So—so that’s—and don’t overlook that service. I mean, you know, my sons are likely not—not to go into it. I didn’t influence ‘em either way. One’s an engineer and one’s a—one’s a—a [inaudible] MBA [Master of Business Administration]. He’s got his MBA and he is a HR [human resources] manager over at Seaman’s[sp], so my sons are pretty successful, but I never influenced them to go one way or the other, but they’re proud of me that I did it.
Like I said, I did not have the career that some of these guys out there. They really put their lives on the line, and I never really had to do that. I was never shot at, okay? Um, but I served my country the best I could, you know? But the guys that really—the guys that went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s just amazing how they—they sacrificed—a lot of them—just so much: their lives, limbs, and everything else. It’s just—and—and—and did it, and they get—they get something—they get like their hand shot off, and they wanna go again, and go back and do it again. It’s just, you know—how do you—how do you instill that in our youth? That—that sense of duty. You know, it’s just a great, great thing. Not that they got hurt, but that they have this, uh—this dedication, and their patriotism for their country, and to do the right thing.
Hiltz
Um, uh, uh, um, what, um—How did you actually end up at UCF, after, um, your time in the Navy?
Rogers
[laughs] Well, I, um—a granddaughter comes into that. I was, uh—worked at the nuclear plant for 25 years. I—I retired from the Reserves in ’98, right? And in 2001, I went back to school again, got a Master’s degree—another Master’s degree—online, um, for—for, uh, education—online distance learning. So I did that for about—took me about four years to get it. I got that degree in 2006. Uh, and then finally, uh—Uh, what—what was your question again?
Hiltz
Oh, how did you end up at UCF?
Rogers
Oh, yeah. Okay. So I—I graduated—after 25 years, I, you know—I retired from—I retired from FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] and I got bored, okay? So when I got very bored, um, I decided to come back to work. So my granddaughter—we had a new granddaughter that[sic] lives down in, uh, Oviedo[, Florida], here. So they—I saw this job at UCF as a Safety Training Coordinator. When I’m training, it looks good to me. So I applied for that job. I got it, so we moved down here. So my wife’s a—a full-time grandma, babysitter type, you know—help out with the kid, and I—I come here. I like my job, I’m teaching, and I got something to do. I got a sense of purpose, other than sitting at home doing nothing.
Hiltz
Uh, what year did you guys, uh—did you come here?
Rogers
Uh, June 2013. So I haven’t been here that long. I’ve only been a UCF employee about a year and a half. Uh, you know, Two years it will be in June. So…
Hiltz
Well, congratulations.
Rogers
So…
Hiltz
[laughs] Um, is there anything else that, uh, we missed that you would like to talk about?
Rogers
No, I mean, I think you about hit all on the head. I mean, it’s all—in the military, it’s all about—it’s about duty, honor, country, leadership. I mean, everybody should kind of get that experience. Well, not for everybody. It’s not for everybody, and—and I don’t know if I would have gone in, if it weren’t for the nuclear program. I don’t think I would have enrolled to just go, you know, to drive a ship. I couldn’t have anyway, because of my—my color—they wouldn’t—they wouldn’t have accepted me in anyway, but because I had some academic potentials, they used me for that, right? So the Navy kinda used me for what talents I had, and—and so, you know, anybody can do that. Yeah. So it’s a great thing. My thanks is for all the people that[sic] have gone on, and—and help, and, today, that[sic] continue to serve.
Hiltz
Well, uh, thank you for your time. Uh, and thank you, um, on behalf of UCF and myself, for answering our, um…
Rogers
Yeah[?].
Hiltz
For answering our questions and having this, uh, wonderful interview.
Rogers
Alright. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your—your interview.
Hiltz
Thank you.
Rogers
Thank you.
Bradfield
Today is March 10th, 2014. I am interviewing [William] “Bill” Rotto[sic]—Reuter, who served in the United States Navy from 1979 through 2010?
Reuter
2012.
Bradfield
2012. Um, they, uh—Mr. Reuter served during the Cold War and completed his service as a…
Reuter
Captain.
Bradfield
Captain. Um, my name is Daniel Bradfield. We are interviewing Mr. Reuter as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Reuter, can you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born?
Reuter
I was born in [April 4th,] 1961 in Camden New Jersey.
Bradfield
Okay. Uh, what did your parents do for a living?
Reuter
My dad owned a mobile home business in, uh, Key West, Florida, which is where I grew up, and, uh, my mother, uh did all kinds of different things, including deal with us.
Bradfield
Uh, what did you, uh—do you have any brothers or sisters?
Reuter
I have two younger brothers and, uh—one of them in Pennsylvania and the other down in the Keys.
Bradfield
Growing up, where did you go to school?
Reuter
I went to school in Key West. Uh, grew up in a trailer park, because we owned trailers and trailer parks, and so, uh—but, uh—all—all throughout my life in Key West.
Bradfield
Um, what did you do before entering the Navy?
Reuter
Uh, basically, I was a student—I was a high school student, and received an [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] ROTC scholarship out of—out of Key West High School, and then went straight to UF [University of Florida] to, uh, start my journey in the Navy.
Bradfield
Um, why did you join the Navy?
Reuter
I wanted to fly airplanes. I wanted be an astronaut.
Bradfield
Um, do you have any other family members in the service?
Reuter
I had an uncle that was in the Air Force, uh, but that’s about it.
Bradfield
Uh, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy?
Reuter
Very, very supportive.
Bradfield
Where did you attend boot camp?
Reuter
As an officer, my boot camp was really going through the Reserve Officer[sic] Training Corps program at UF. So I didn’t attend a formal boot camp, like many of the enlisted sailors that you’ve interviewed.
Bradfield
Did you ever see active duty in a warzone?
Reuter
Uh, only on, uh, Line of Death in Libya, and, uh, in the Norwegian fjords, uh, against Soviet, uh, reconnaissance, uh, and bomber aircraft, but not in the current [Persian] Gulf conflict.[1]
Bradfield
Um, do you have any stories you’d like to share about those encounters?
Reuter
Well, I mean, it’s always fun seeing people that, you know, think differently from you, and back in the [19]80s, certainly, we saw the Soviet Union as, uh—as sort of an enigma. It was very, very mysterious, because they were in this whole different, you know, behind the—Steel Curtain, you know? And so, uh, we had a lot of curiosity, and—and, uh, we’d look back at each other in airplanes, and here we are up in the middle of nowhere, and we just con—continue to have that kind of curiosity. Most of my stories having to do with, uh, stress and overcoming stress in the service have more to do with landing aircraft—landing aircraft on aircraft carriers at night. Those sorts of things. Because those are often, uh, scarier than most other things that an aviator would encounter.
Bradfield
Do you have any stories about any close calls while trying to land on an aircraft carrier?
Reuter
Certainly. Uh, well, I can tell you that, uh, at one point, I was—I had had a, uh, problem—what we call a “bleed air fuel leak,” which can create a fire, and so I had lights in the cockpit that were saying that there was excessive heat in the engine compartment. Uh, and it was—it’s what they call “one step short of a fire.” And a fire out on the aircraft carrier, when there’s really nowhere else to go, and, In this case, the aircraft carrier was so far off of any coast, that we were doing what you call “blue water op[eration]s.” “Blue water ops” meaning you’re going nowhere but back to the carrier, or the aircraft is going in the ocean. So we had to think real quick[sic]. We had just launched off catapult, so we were still very heavy, and we couldn’t land on the carrier right away. Carrier read—wasn’t even ready to catch us right away. So, uh—so we had to do, uh, some— real, uh, quick emergency things. Cockpit was getting very, very hot. Uh, they estimated it was around 130 degrees, uh, in the cockpit, and, um, we had to, uh—had to bring it back aboard the carrier, and—and, uh, did that, and got out of the airplane, and went down, and had me a cheeseburger. Because, uh, that’s one of the ways that we aviators deals[sic] with—deal with stress.
Bradfield
Did you receive any special commendations or medals?
Reuter
Uh, lots in the Navy, certainly. A couple of Legions of Merit medals, uh, which I am very, very grateful for. Uh, most of my accolades though, I can tell you—like most other sailors, I believe, would say—and that is: it’s not only due to them personally. None of these awards, uh—though you wear them as a personal decoration—a decoration, most of the time, they are as a result of the team you were on and the people you served with. Uh, But I was very fortunate to get a—a good number of accolades, uh, in the Navy, Including two commands. Uh, my—my biggest role, before this role down here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], uh, was—it’s Commanding Officer and Chief Test Pilot of the squadron up at [Naval Air Station] Patuxent River, Maryland, Where I flew as an [McDonnell Douglas] F[/A]-18 [Hornet][2] test pilot.
Bradfield
Uh, when were you assigned to NAWCTSD?
Reuter
I got here in, uh, January of 2008. So—and as I—as I moved into the role as Executive Officer, which is the second-in-command.
Bradfield
Did you know the—did you know about the region, militarily or other, before coming to NAWCTSD Orlando?
Reuter
All I knew about Orlando, uh, other than knowing a little bit of what NAWCTSD did and the—the—I did not know or appreciate the whole modeling and simulation cluster we had here. I knew there was a base,[3] when there was a boot camp,[4] and everything like that, and the nuke school,[5] But I did not know a lot about what NAWCTSD did, other than produce the aviation simulators that I was fortunate enough to fly.
Bradfield
What were your first impressions of the base?[6] Or—or the surrounding area?
Reuter
Well, I was very impressed with the—the—the—the proximity of everything. I was impressed that we were really close to the Army and we were really close to the Air Force and Marine Corps, and I was astounded with the intimacy of the relationship with the University of Central Florida, uh, and—and continued to enjoy that relationship throughout my tenure at NAWCTSD.
Bradfield
How did that compare to other bases you have been stationed at?
Reuter
There’s absolutely nothing like this area right here. There—there are no—no entities, within the [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense], that duplicate what we have here. What we have here is a clear synergistic effect, not only based on proximity. You can put anybody in a building next to another entity and not gain the kind of synergies we get here from the partnerships and the relationships that we have across academia, and industry, and now these DOD activities.
Bradfield
What were your first days at NAWS—NAWCTSD like?
Reuter
I came in with—wearing civilian clothes, ‘Cause I was actually a, uh—in a—in a class. So this class had you wearing civilian clothes. So people didn’t know that I was the guy that was gonna come in and eventually be in charge. So it was actually very cool, ‘cause I could have this sort of Brubaker approach to it, Where [Henry] Brubaker was the guy that[sic] went into the prison as the warden and he went in as an inmate. So I kinda went in in that underground kind of incognito way, and it was great, ‘cause I got to hear the conversations. I got to understand a little bit more about the culture/ but it is the most unique place that I have ever served in the Navy.
Bradfield
What were your primary responsibilities while you were at NAWCTSD?
Reuter
Well, I was the Executive Officer, who is the second-in-command, so responsible for pretty much everything that happens, uh, at NAWCTSD, and the other thing that a lot people don’t rec—recognize is that when you’re the commanding officer, or the Executive Officer, of NAWCTSD, You are also the Executive Officer, Commanding Officer of NSA Orlando—the Naval Support Activity Orlando, which is the base. So all of the stuff that deals with the gates, and the guards, and any of the sort of anti-terrorism measures, or any of that kind of stuff when it comes to protection, You deal with in capacity as CO or the XO, so—Commanding Officer or Executive Officer—of NSA Orlando. So you really had two hats and two jobs.
Bradfield
So, eh, what was a typical day like, um, when you were, uh, Executive Officer?
Reuter
Well, a typical day as Executive Officer, uh, had a lot to do with, uh, a series of meeting, most of which were people that[sic] wanted a decision about one thing or another. Some of them were informational, but we tried to keep those to a minimum. Most of the time, I was given direction and—and providing guidance to people that were trying to, uh, make decisions. Uh, I—I tried to give them enough context to how I would decide, so that they could make decisions on their own and have my full faith, trust, and confidence, as they did so. So a lot of different things go on as you can imagine. Running, uh, a warfare center and a base, and so, there’s, uh, everything from acquisition stuff that has to be decided, to what, uh—to—to where we’re gonna—to what color carpet we’re gonna pick out. There’s just a lot of different things [laughs] that—you[?] pro—and anything in between that spectrum.
Bradfield
Um, can you tell us about the types of projects you worked on and what they aimed to accomplish?
Reuter
The things that I’m most proud of, and the thing that people need to understand is that: simulation—we talk about it, kind of, trying to create an environment that is the real thing, and, in this environ—in this world today— in the way that we train our airmen, our sailors, our soldiers, and our Marines, We have to create some really, really immersive environments, in order to generate the kind of suspension of disbelief. For people to go in there and actually get proficiency from these environments. I mean, there’s[sic] so many people playing video games and they’re dealing with such cool graphics and immersive effects that you really, really need to wow them, in order to create that environment, and in the aviation community, it becomes even harder, because you’re dealing with very dynamic technology and it’s not as easy to do that.
So what we decided to do in the Navy was really, really take hold of this whole idea of increasing the fidelity of our simulations. Whether it be better visuals, better motions, better all kinds of different things that you can do to generate, uh—to—to give them an environment where they could actually be trained, and so, we were—I was—I was fortunate enough to be there, from ‘08 to ‘12—from 2008 to 2012—where we made huge investments that we still continue to make, but it was really the—the tip of the iceberg, for the money that’s going into simulation and that is being taken out of a lot of the live exercises that we used to do that cost a lot of money and that required a lot of infrastructure, and you had to sustain that infrastructure. So that’s a—a cost that is per—you know, in perpetuity. So we’ve have really changed our mindset on simulation. That’s been the most important thing that I was a part of—of being able to do that in, uh, aviation, surface, subsurface, and other communities.
Bradfield
In what ways have the simulation projects at NAWCTSD impacted other branches of the military?
Reuter
So the Air Force, uh, is very, very big on simulation, as well. They’re—we do a lot of collaboration through—not only of the acquisitions that we do, you know? We—we go out and we buy a simulator, and we go to some of these industry partners that are in this area and around the country, and, in fact, the world, and we buy, you know, an aircraft simulator or we buy a ship simulator, or something like that, but what’s really cool is the collaboration that goes into the technical side of this, before we ever ask industry to give us a simulator. We inform each other, through symposia and the like, to understand better the science of learning, to understand better where the technology is going, So we can be leaning forward as a DOD—and not only as a DOD, but as other agencies around here. We still work with the [U.S.] Department of Homeland Security and with other agencies that have benefit from this technology training their workforce—whatever it might be. So that collaborative energy, and the fact that we have papers, and we have symposia that sort of continue to nurture that collective understanding of the technology and its merit in the science of learning. That’s what moves this needle forward for all of us. So that NAWC—it’s not only NAWCTSD, or PEO STRI [Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training and Instrumentation], or any of those entities. It is all those entities and their collective, uh, IP—intellectual property—to get together that gets moved forward.
Bradfield
What do you think the future holds for simulation training in Central Florida?
Reuter
Si—there is—there’s really no limit to what we can do with simulation and training in Central Florida. The fact that we have grown it, based on DODs demand, is very fortunate, but it is certainly not the limit to the application of this technology into other fields. We talk about transportation, we talk—modeling and simulating transportation, In order to understand where chokepoints are, to, uh, train people in dealing with different crises, to train emergency first responders, to train medical professionals. We’re already doing that at the VA [Veterans Health Administration] Sim[ulation] Learning[, Education and Research Network National Simulation] Center down here at Lake Nona, where [Lake Nona] Medical City is. We talk about construction simulation, So that we avoid, uh, costs of engineering changes and things like that, once we have gone into the construction phase, through just So many—education. There is so many applications of this simulation technology in—in moving forward. All of these industries.
Bradfield
What do you think are the most important achievements or contributions of the simulation projects to technology and to the future of technology?
Reuter
I think that the—the most important contribution was to give some other technologies an application that actually could affect an end-product. So if you think about digital media and graphics, alright? and some of the, um, some of the, uh—the stuff we’re doing with, uh—with extensive graphics—much—much higher definition graphics—There’s are a lot of different applications for those types of technologies. What we did was bring those technologies into, uh, a simulation, into creating a virtual environment, Such that we could add proficiency to people. We can do that in so many different ways, not only across DOD, but others, as well.
Bradfiels
When did you leave the Navy, and what did you do after you left?
Reuter
So I left the Navy in September of 2012, um, just—Not even two years ago now—And started my own consulting practice. I’ve also continued to work in the simulation industry and work with both companies in—in the simulation industry, as well as with folks like the [Metro Orlando] Economic Development Commission, and—and the Mayor’s office, and people that are moving forward this understanding of how simulation can grow and affect our economy. I was fortunate enough, in the very beginning of, uh—right after I retired, to assist in writing the strategic plan for modeling and simulation for Central Florida, and I can tell ya, more than anything we have a center of excellence. We need to grow and nurture it, even beyond the DOD, such that DOD just wants to be around it, because they recognize the kind of ecosystem we have here.
Bradfield
What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?
Reuter
Well, he standard answer, of course, would be: honor, courage, and commitment, and they, uh—and those are our watchwords in the Navy, and the—the caliber of people that I have met—that I have lifelong friends, uh, that[sic] I’ve been 28 years in the Navy. You’ve met people in so many different stages of your career, and you continue to be in touch with them, and so, that sort of, uh—that’s sort of such a nurturing environment, and the fact that we were off and off of the aircraft carrier, and test flying up in Patuxent River, Maryland, Launching into some pretty hairy situations, uh, and—and came through it, and shared a beer at the end, uh, Just continues to nurture those relationships, and we’ve seen kids grow up together, and we’ve had a lot of fun, and so that’s been the most valuable piece for me.
Bradfield
How has the NTC Orlando base or Central Florida region changed since the time you spent there?
Reuter
In my case, of course, that would be a little NA [not applicable], But I can tell you that I’ve, uh—because I didn’t spend the time at NTC—But I can tell you that, um, you know, what has been done at [Lake] Baldwin Park is phenomenal. No question about it, it has definitely one of the better repurposing of a base environment that, uh, has taken place in our entire country, when it comes to BRACs, and how people have responded to Base Realignment and Closure. Uh, I think what’s unfortunate—and what was unfortunate for me and my family—was when we came here and saw that there was really no evidence that the Navy had been there, and so hence, the rationale and the driver behind the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial Project.
Bradfield
What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit—when they revisit the site of the base and the LS[M]P memorial?
Reuter
I think, more than anything, they want to imagine—re—reimagine, especially ones that were stationed there, what that Grinder was like, to recognize that that is hallowed ground, and to be able to tell their descendants about the time that they spent here and the pride that they took in getting through that. Whether it had been the nuke school or whether it was RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]—you know, because there were a lot of Navy entities here, at that time, and so, they—people need to understand what the Navy meant to Orlando during those days. It was a big Navy town. People started and—and made businesses grow, as a result of the Navy being here during those times, and so, to have—and we’ve got such a tremendous amount of support from people way out of town, That have roots here in Orlando based on their time here at RTC, and so somehow, we have got to—got to memorialize that, and give them a chance to re-experience that and pass that on down the generations.
Bradfield
Is there anything else you would like to share about your Navy experience?
Reuter
Well, I tell ya, I’m just—I was very blessed from the word go. Um, you know, you’re talking to a kid that—that grew up running on coral in Key West, And—often barefoot—had a dream to be an astronaut. Ended up going through the whole program, into Test Pilot School, finalist for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], ended up coming here into a place that I had no idea how special it was, and I—I’m grateful for the relationships that we have built, and I have built personally, as a Navy guy, with the folks at UCF with president [John C.] Hitt and a lot of others in this community, uh, that truly, truly are a partnership community, and, uh, it was the best way to—to leave the Navy. Understanding, that one, my command was in my good hands and the Navy was in good hands but also to come out into this tremendous community that[?], um, I’ve learned more in the last four years being in the Navy, than, uh, arguably then I learned in the la—in the ten prior, Uh, for sure.
Bradfield
When did you start your astronaut training?
Reuter
Uh, you—basically, what you do is you—as you—when you become a test pilot and you go through Test Pilot School, You are then, uh, afforded the opportunity to apply to NASA, and the thing—fortunately or unfortunately—when I was through that training and was applying for NASA, We had—had encountered a couple of really tough things. The [Space Shuttle] Challenger disaster, uh, certainly setback some—in 1986—se—or 1985[7]—setback some things pretty big, and then the [Space Shuttle] Columbia disaster was really the one that was tough. I mean, I had two buddies on the Columbia that day: uh, [William] “Willie” [Cameron] McCool and Dr. David [McDowell] Brown, uh, and that really slowed the manifest of space shuttle launches. So—so it was harder to get through the eye of the needle there, when it came to NASA. They weren’t taking as many people—all that kinda stuff. So I was a finalist three times. I—I’m very grateful for that, But at the end of the day, uh, somebody had other plans, and I have no problem with that, and I am very, very grateful that I got to come here.
Bradfield
Alright. Well, thank you very much.
Reuter
Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity.