1
100
7
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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b04816d49be28e9a8bd4764275639c87.pdf
3b4ca33d66e21c6afb4584f654d4d835
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Johnson, Taylor
Interviewee
Wheeler, Terry W.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Terry W. Wheeler
Alternative Title
Oral History, Wheeler
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler (b. 1959), who served in the U.S. Army, during the Cold War. Wheeler was born in Fort Lee, Virginia, in 1959. He joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and was commissioned into the Army on December 28, 1981. He earned the rank of Captain, as well as several awards and commendations: the Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon, the Army Achievement Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal. Wheeler served in Fort Knox, Kentucky, Schweinfurt, West Germany, and Fort Benning, Georgia.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include training at Fort Knox, duties as an Armor Officer, assignment in West Germany, Fort Benning, duties as a Tank Company commander, combat simulations, resigning from the Army and attending graduate school, and employment in the private sector.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:01:52 Enlistment<br />0:02:25 Training and duties as an Armor Officer<br />0:05:41 Germany<br />0:07:16 Inner German border and gunnery<br />0:08:47 Interaction with Germans and most memorable day<br />0:10:39 Free time, contacting family, and fellow servicemembers<br />0:12:00 Fort Benning, Georgia<br />0:13:46 Tank Company Commander and combat simulations<br />0:16:22 Resignation and graduate school<br />0:17:57 Awards and most memorable aspect of service<br />0:18:41 Post-Army career<br />0:19:27 Effect of service on civilian life<br />0:20:21 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler. Interview conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
15-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 11-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Schweinfurt, Lower Franconia, Bavaria, Germany
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Creator
Wheeler, Terry W.
Johnson, Taylor
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
181 MB
166 KB
Medium
21-minute and 11-second DVD/MP4 aduio/video recording
15-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Taylor Johnson and Terry W. Wheeler and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Hawkins, John Palmer. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44713137" target="_blank"><em>Army of Hope, Army of Alienation: Culture and Contradiction in the American Army Communities of Cold War Germany</em></a>. Westport, Conn: Praeger, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I’m interviewing Terry [W.] Wheeler, who served in the Army from 1981 to 1990. I’m Taylor Johnson. Mr. Wheeler served during the Cold War era. He spent time in Fort Knox, Kentucky; Schweinfurt[, Lower Franconia, Bavaria], Germany; and [U.S. Army Infantry School] Fort Benning, Georgia. My name’s Taylor Johnson, again. We’re interviewing Mr. Wheeler as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We’re recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. So my first question is: where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was born in Fort Lee, Virginia.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>1959. Fort Lee is a military post, and that is the—that is the Army hospital on post[?].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you—sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>That’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So you grew up on a military post?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>My dad was in the military, and we grew up—I grew up in, uh, location to location, across the United States and Europe, until he retired in 1971.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your father do for the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>He was a logistics officer. He was a ward officer [<em>clears throat</em>], and, uh, he—he spent, uh, time in WWII [World War II], Korea[n War], and three tours in Vietnam [War].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did your mother do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>She was a housewife, Uh, up until about the time my dad retired, and then she came back into the workforce.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Do you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I don’t.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do before you entered the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was in college. I was a ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] cadet at Gonzaga University, and so I was a college student.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you study?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was a business major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so do you have any other family members that served in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, uncles. My—my dad’s oldest brother was killed during World War II. Uh, his old—his younger brother served in the Navy. His other younger brother served in the Air Force, and then I have cousins who have served in the military also.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what prompted you to enter the military?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>It’s a—it’s a very easy decision to make, if you grew up in a military family. Uh, it was just a logical progression of what I would like to do to serve, and so I made that decision—when I was in high school—that I was gonna serve.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So how did your family members feel about you entering the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, they were very supportive. They were not, uh, overly pushing me towards that decision. It was my own decision to make. Uh, my mother was not as happy with that decision as she would’ve been if I had stayed in the civilian side, uh, but that’s the way it turned out.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what were your first days in the service like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I came in at the end of December 1981, and came on active duty, and went to my basic qualification course at Fort Knox. I was an Armor Officer, and so, for the next four and a half months, I spent time at Fort Knox learning how to be a platoon leader—a second Lieutenant, and then I was assigned to Germany after that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do as an Armor Officer?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, sp—the position that I was in was, uh, a cavalry position. That is a sub-branch of the armor—a subsection of the armor. Uh, Cavalry is a screen unit—a—a scout unit, if you will, that works in a divisional or regimental level. Basically, the cav’s mission is to, uh, screen and be the leading edge of a, uh—of the unit, uh, in the advance, to screen the flanks to make sure there are no surprises. So it’s very, very light, very, very fast reconnaissance.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was your initial training like?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Four and a half months of learning everything, from personnel actions to vehicle repair to how to employ the weapons systems on all the vehicles that we are going to be assigned, Radio communications. I mean, the entire gamut that you would expect to serve in that posi—in a ge—in that position as a leader. Uh, second lieutenant platoon leader is an entry-level position for combat arms. Um, Basically, uh, you’re in charge of about 38 soldiers and about—at that—at that point in time [<em>sighs</em>]—let me count vehicles real quick—about 13 vehicles.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um,okay.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson <br /></strong>So what do you remember most about your time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Time in training?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Fort Knox, in the wintertime, is very cold. As Germany is very cold. Um, it was a lot of fun. We learned a lot in a very short amount of time, and, uh, long days, long nights, and it was a really good building experience. Uh, the people that you meet, in that same course, are people that[sic] you serve with in the military throughout your career, and it is a boomerang-type effect, because you come back together. They’re sent to units, you’re sent to units, you run into them for training exercises or operational deployments. You come back together for training over time, and so you’re building a cohort of—of people that you serve with throughout the rest of your career.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What type of advanced training did you receive, if any?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, really, advanced is not key to this, at that point. Um, basically, you know, eh, for the armor side, you come in, you’re given, uh, the tra—the base training, and you go out and be a platoon leader, and you spend a couple years doing that. If you’re selected for the advanced course, then you come back as a ju—a senior lieutenant or a junior-grade captain, and go through another six-month type course, where they lear—they—you need to learn how to be an effective commander of a small unit—a Company Commander. At the end of that, then you go out and serve a utilization tour, being a leader at that level. So it’s, you know, two grades up, and then, at that point, then you—you split off in your career, and pull the secondary career, and so you split off into another area, and so, at that point then—rom that point forward in your career you, flip flop between your primary and your secondary specialty. So I really didn’t have advanced training, other than the fact that I went through the career course as a Captain, and then commanded a unit.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Okay, um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Excuse me.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So when did you find out that you were going to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, April 1982. Right at the end—I received orders for that, right as I was finishing up my qualification course.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And how did you react to that news?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I was very happy. I had spent two years in Germany as a child. I already spoke fluent German, and so it was not a huge, life-changing experience to go over there. Um, usually what you walk as a—as an American, when you walk into Germany—not having served there, not having any background to it—you go through a couple weeks of qualif—uh, of familiarization, where you learn rudimentary language, and I was not—I was able to just bypass that and mainstream right in.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what was, uh—what was a routine day like during your assignment in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] I can give you a routine—a, uh, better description than that. For the first year that I was there as a platoon leader, we were in the field 280 days out of 365 days that year. We would deploy out for a, uh—a 30-day session on a border camp, where we would patrol the East German<a title="">[1]</a> interzonal border. From that, we would get on the train and go to a gunnery—three or four weeks of tank gunnery, and from that, we would deploy to a field exercise, go home for two weeks, and then go back to the border for 30 days. So we spent most of our time out actually doing our real world mission, at that point. Um, up at six in the morning, uh, some pu—some, uh—in effect, through midnight—one in the morning. I mean, it was a very, very, very dynamic, high stress, long day environment.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do in each of those three sort of positions?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the border camp, we were responsible to patrol a section of border of—of the East German interzonal border. This was still when the [Berlin] Wall was up. between 2<sup>nd</sup> ACR [Armored Calvary Regiment] and 11<sup>th</sup> ACR, we had this—this—this piece of the border that had to be actually manned, and stood ready to—to announce that any—any incursion had come across the border. We were fully combat-loaded. We were deployed there 30 days at a time. We spent 10 days, eh, in a steady reaction state of walking around, with full gear loaded on, helmets in our hands, ready to walk out the gate with five minutes notice to go to our general positions and fight a war. Okay? We spent 10 days in training. We spent 10 days doing actual patrols in jeeps up and down the interzonal border. Uh, it is the—It was the—other than Korea—at that point, it was—we were one of the most forward-deployed units in the Army, at that time. All the vehicles were fully uploaded with the ammunition and ready to go.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what did you do at the gunnery?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler <br /></strong>Gunnery was—there’s a—there’s a—a full qualification session that you have to—to do in tanks to maintain proficiency, and you do that more than two to three—four times a year, and so you would go, and there were actually exercises that you run, shooting live guns, live ammunition at the range, and you qualify as a tank crew, as a section of two, platoon of four, and a company of 12, and so it is, basically, you know, move and shoot, and communicate, and prov—proving proficiency that you can do that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What did you think of the Germans?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Well, uh, where we were stationed in Germany, it was in—it was in the very northern end of Bavaria. Germans were very, very polite people. Uh, very welcoming. Um, I’m not so sure that the Germans really enjoyed being occupied still after 40 years of—after the end of the [World] War [II], but, uh, they were very nice. Uh, they—if you spoke German, or at least tried to fit in and blend in, you get a lot further than being an ugly American, and, uh, it was a very pleasant place, and we saw a lot of it riding in the back of a military vehicle.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What was your most memorable day during that assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Give me a second. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] we had a soldier that died in a training accident, and the aftermath of that was really hard to deal with. Uh, It was not his—it was not a—a—a, uh—a safety issue that was the direct cause. It truly was an accident. Uh, The tank that he was riding in, uh, went over, uh—now, in Germany—back in the Germany, uh, the train—a lot of the trains and some of the streetcars would run with electricity, and they had these high tension wires overhead, and he was riding in a tank, and the—the antenna on his tank, uh, snapped loose and the antenna went up and hit the top of the—of the high voltage wire, and it arced electricity through the vehicle, and the vehicle basically exploded, and three of the—of the four crew were able to get out, and he was unable to get out, and he passed away. So that was very difficult to deal with. Uh, seeing the aftermath of that [<em>clears throat</em>], having to pull the tank apart, trying to take his remains out, you know, that kind of thing. So that—that was a very memorable day.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, what did you do with your free time, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Traveled.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Uh, can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>A—again, we were deployed most of the time. So when there was a free couple of day—a week—a weekend, or a free three- or four-day event, we would get in the car and disappear. Drove all over Bavaria, uh, spent time in France [<em>clears throat</em>], spent some time, uh, in Northern Germany. Um, basically just enjoying the, uh—the countryside and the people.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so how did you stay in touch with your family while you were overseas?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>We didn’t have email, at that time. Computers were still brand new [<em>clears throat</em>]. So it was by post. Uh, Telephone calls were very expensive, so telephones didn’t really get figured into that, so letters.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And what do you remember about the people that you served with, while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I still have friends that I’ve stayed in contact with, after all these years. That was, uh, 1982-1983-1984 timeframe. I still stay in touch with a few of ‘em. Uh, Very dedicated group of people, um, very like-minded. Uh, you find in the military that not just the clothes you wear make you the same. Very, very similar backgrounds, characteristics, views on the world, and, uh, it was a very, very good time to be a young officer, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was it like when you came back to the U.S.?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>They call the flight from Germany to the United States the “freedom bird” for a reason. Uh, everyone’s happy to come home. Uh, it is a great feeling of—of, uh, assimilation back into society [<em>clears throat</em>], into the culture that you—you are in. It—and, you know, it is—it is—it wasn’t different, at that point in time. It was Europe, and different language, different money, different feel. It was—it was coming home. So it was very nice to come back to the States.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what do you remember about Fort Benning?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Benning is the home of the Infantry [Branch]. Uh, It is—it is a[sic], uh, Infantry training center. Ranger School’s there, Airborne School, Pathfinder [School]. Um, I was assigned to the 2<sup>nd</sup> Battalion, 69<sup>th</sup> Armor [Regiment], at that—at that point, and we went and we were part of a round—we were part of a—a, uh, brigade that was a round-out element for the, uh, rapid deployment force—XVIII Airborne Corps. So we were, again, fairly—fairly well getting ready to be on, you know—on a couple hours’ notice, ready to deploy into the world, but, uh, it was—it was a great training opportunity. We were the only armor unit on post. So we would get tagged for a lot of fire demonstrations and combined arms demonstrations, when the—when the—when the, uh, senior, uh, officers would come—come into town [<em>clears throat</em>], and so we spent a lot of time working with the Infantry. We really refined the—the union—the union of the true mechanized team, at that point. So it was not armor pure. It was that combined arms element that we really struggled to, uh, put in place, and it was really, really great training opportunity.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training for your job as a Tank Company Commander?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Yeah, I went through the advanced course. That was, ah—so coming back from Germany, I spent six months again at Fort Knox, going through the next phase of that course and came out, eh, eh, basically ready to be a Company Commander. So when I was—I was deployed to Benning, I spent the next, uh, 16 months as a Maintenance Officer for a battalion, and then was assigned as a Company Commander, and spent, uh, [<em>sighs</em>] another probably 18 to 20 months, I guess, as a Tank Company Commander.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about your job with combat simulations—the combat simulations branch?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>At the end of my command time, uh, I picked my secondary specialty as Operations Research and Systems Analysis, and there was a group that was doing that type of work attached to the Infantry center, and so I went in, and I was a—an Executive Officer for this small group that used computers—which were very, very, uh, elementary, as compared to what we have now—to do war gaming, to look at how new equipment inserted into a battlefield would make a differential change.</p>
<p>So basically, you would take the characteristics of—of a new weapon system, and you would deploy that with—so you’d run simulations without that weapon system and you would run simulations with that weapons system, and look for the differentials that you could achieve and how much more advantage it gave you. It was part of the co—cost and operational effectiveness analysis for getting those systems to be brought online.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so—I lost my place. Um, what was a routine day like while you were in Georgia?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, at—at the—at the, uh—at the armor group job? Or in the, uh—the simulations job?</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, either one.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Armor job—realistically, almost every line unit almost has the exact same type of training as—same type of day. Uh, up in the morning, depending on, you know—three days a week you run PT [physical training] from six o’clock to seven o’clock, have a shower, be back at—at work at—at eight for formation. Going through the day, whether training, or maintenance, or what have you, and are usually done by six o’clock at night, Uh, Back home to families.</p>
<p>Um, the—the Executive Officer’s job is—at the branch, we would spend the day doing the same thing. We would do PT a couple days a week, and then, um, go into what was more of an office-style environment to do those simulations. Um, we had a staff of about eight members—both soldiers and civilians—that worked that group, and we would do these simulation exercises on the computers.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what was it like when your service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] I made the decision to—to, uh, resign my commission and come out of active duty, uh, in early spring of 1990. Um, my secondary priority[?]—I had already worked at my secondary specialty for two years, and was unable to get the Army to agree to send me to grad[uate] school for a funded grad program, and I had watched officers who had gone through the Army non-funded program and the funded grad program, come out and see how effective they were in that job, and the ones that[sic] were coming out, not having gone to grad school, were not being retained, and I was not selected to go through the grad program, so that basically was the de—deciding point [<em>clears throat</em>] that, if I couldn’t do that and retain my time—because I figured, at that point, I would not be able to continue. I elected to resign and get out, and then I, uh, applied for grad school and went to grad school. Um, My ETS [Expiration Term of Service] was June 30<sup>th</sup>, 1990, and the Army froze all separation actions July 15<sup>th</sup>, for the [Persian] Gulf War. So that was immediately—I mean, it was—it days before the Gulf War jumped from there, almost.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, so what did you study when you went to grad school?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I studied information systems, and, uh, spend 18 months in grad school.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, What can you tell us about the awards that you received from the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Very, very common, uh, awards that people, you know—you spend eight years doing that. Um, nothing—nothing major. Um, you know, Army Achievement Medals for stuff, and, uh, that’s pretty much it. Nothing major.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was the most memorable thing overall about your time in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>You know, as I alluded to earlier, uh, it is a—it is a great pleasure to spend time with people of a like mind. Okay? I found a lot of the people, that[sic] I spent time with, had the same values, same views on the world, politics, that I did, and so it was a brotherhood, and just the—the people that[sic] I—and the friendships, I guess, that I had—had gained, and the relationships from work that I had from that group of people is what I retained from that.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what was your job after you left the service.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>When I came out I went to grad school and finished grad school at Syracuse [University], and, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] I went to work for IBM [International Business Machines Corporation] as an intern, did that for about nine months, and then came into the private sector.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what are you doing now?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>I am currently the director of IT [information technology] services for the Student Development and Enrollment Services division here<a title="">[2]</a> on campus.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>So what can you tell me about that?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Basically, SDES is the largest division on campus. We have about 2,400 staff that we maintain computer action for servers for, so desktop, laptop, database, uh, web design, and that’s what we encompass. So basically, I run the services side of that group.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and how has your time in the military affected your life since then?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>There hasn’t really been an effect since then. It was a—any time you transition from the military to the ci—the civilian sector, it can create a period of—of, uh, change, I guess you would say. Uh, going from the major activities, and the mindset, and the—the guidelines that we do into what the civilian world does not encompass. Um, it took about a year—a year and a half—to go through that and actually transition the mindset away.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>And do you belong to any veterans groups?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, I do not.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>What do you do with your free time since you left the service?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Uh, I have—I have children. So pretty much now it’s just work and—and, you know, time with family and Boy Scouts [of America].</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, and what would you say to someone who is contemplating enlisting or becoming a commissioned officer today?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Military service is an honor, and, uh, it’s a calling that, if you’re called to do, you really want to without any real reason to explain why, and it’s a very, very honorable thing to do, and if that is—if that is a design that is something that interests someone to do, I encourage them fully to accept that and enjoy.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Um, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>No, ma’am.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you for your time, and for coming to talk with me today, and thank you for your service. I appreciate your participation, and we will be in touch with you once we have a copy of your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Wheeler<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Johnson<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> German Democratic Republic (GDR).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> At the University of Central Florida.</p>
</div>
</div>
11th ACR
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
18th Airborne Corps
2nd ACR
2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment
2nd Battalion
2nd Lieutenant
69th Armor Regiment
Achievement Medal
ACR
advanced training
Airborne Corps
Armor Officer
Armor Regiment
Armored Cavalry Regiment
basic training
Bavaria, Germany
Berlin Wall
Blachorse Regiment
cavalry
COEA
cold war
combat simulations
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commander
cost and operational effectiveness analysis
CVHP
deployments
East Germany
Eighteenth Airborne Corps
Eleventh Armored Cavalry Regiment
enlistment
Executive Officer
Federal Republic of Germany
Fort Benning, Georgia
Fort Knox, Kentucky
Fort Lee, Virginia
Free State of Bavaria
freedom birds
FRG
German Democratic Republic
Germans
Germany
Infantry Branch
information technology
inner German border
IT
lieutenants
Maintenance Officer
military training
Operations Research/Systems Analysis
ORSA
rapid deployment force
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
ROTC
Schweinfurt, Germany
scouts
SDES
Second ACR
Second Armored Cavalry Regiment
Second Battalion
Second Lieutenant
simulation training
Sixty-Ninth Armor Regiument
Student Development and Enrollment Services
Tank Company Commander
Taylor Johnson
Terry W. Wheeler
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
UCF
UCF SDES
UCF Student Development and Enrollment Services
veterans
weapon systems
West Germany
XVIII Airborne Corps
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e979574868da94f6a20a3fa283e68f35.pdf
982bb5a46631a8d53dec5fa885f4f54e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Ray Sturm
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sturm
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Ray Sturm (b. 1963), who served in the U.S. Army from 1983 to 1989. Sturm was born in Winter Park, Florida, on October 22, 1963. He enlisted in the Army in 1983 and completed his basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Sturm then served at Herzo Base in Herzogenaurach, Germany. He served in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade and 34th Infantry Division, and achieved the rank of Sergeant.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Katie Hollingsworth in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson, Herzo Base, his rank as Sergeant, Fort Stewart, the 24th Infantry Division, comradery, Sturm's interest in music, and his post-military life.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:02:35 Enlistment<br />0:05:05 Basic training and advanced training <br />0:07:53 Herzo Base<br />0:16:58 Sergeant rank<br />0:22:00 Fort Stewart and the 24th Infantry Division<br />0:25:41 Comradery and music<br />0:28:26 Post-military education<br />0:30:44 Keeping in touch with other soldiers<br />0:33:05 Military's influence on life<br />0:35:35 Advice to current service members<br />0:37:07 Post-military hobbies<br />0:39:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Ray Sturm. Interview conducted by Katie Hollingsworth at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
26-page digital transcript of original 42-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Winter Park, Florida
Fort Jackson, Columbia, South Carolina
Herzo Base, Herzogenaurach, Hesse, Germany
Fort Stewart, Georgia
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sturm, Ray
Hollingsworth, Katie
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
362 MB
228 KB
Medium
42-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
26-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Katie Hollingsworth and Ray Sturm and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Nelson, Harold W. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"><em>The Army</em></a>. Arlington, Va: Army Historical Foundation, 2001.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, by the way, I assume this is going to be edited?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No? Okay. Alright.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay. So Today—it is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014, and I am interviewing Dr. Ray Sturm, who served in the U.S. Army as a Sergeant in the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade, 34<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division. I am interviewing Dr. Sturm as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Uh, I was born right here in Central Florida. I was born inWinter Park, uh, in [October 22,] 1963.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a CPA [Certified Public Accountant], and my mom was a homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, how big was your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, just the three of us. Well, and…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Just the three of you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And my grandmother lived with us…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, until I was about 10 years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, what do you remember mostly about your childhood?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, what do I remember mostly?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Mmhmm[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, having a lot of fun [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, like—you know, like we, uh, had talked about earlier, uh, actually growing up near the Navy base. Uh, we were just two blocks from the Navy base there. Um, and that kind of impacted, uh—impacted our lives a little bit.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what kind of education did you receive?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, after high school, um, and after, uh, my military service, uh, I got my Bachelor’s, uh, [degree] and Master’s [degree] from University of Central Florida. So Bachelor’s in accounting, Master’s in taxation, um, and then I received a, uh, Doctorate [degree] in finance from Florida Atlantic University.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, before you enlisted, what did you—what sort of things did you enjoy doing?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I enjoyed surfing. I enjoyed surfing and I enjoyed, uh, exercising. I was a—I was always very physical. So I ran track all through high school and—and in junior high. Um, and, uh, anything that involved sports I was, uh—I was interested in doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, were any of your other family members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes. Uh, yeah. My grandfather, um, was in the Army Corps of Engineers. Um, I think he was—I think that was actually a civilian position, But he was working in that. My, uh, step grandfather was, um, actually drafted in—I believe it was the Army, and, uh, he was drafted at like 40 years old, uh, in World War II. He was not—not very happy about that, and, um, my dad was in the Air Force, Which is what brought us down here to Central Florida in the first place.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah, and, Um, how aware were you of the Cold War, before you enlisted?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, not very. Uh, you know, obviously, uh, I knew it was going on, but, uh, you know, I enlisted at 20 years old, so I wasn’t, uh—I wasn’t, uh, all that aware of, uh—of the Cold War. I was more aware of [the Invasion of] Grenada,<a title="">[1]</a> because I went in right a—a month after that happened. So[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah, uh, what influenced you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, lots of things. Uh, at that time, um, uh, I was in, uh—I was in college, but I wasn’t really a student yet. So, um, you know, I was—I was still—still seeking, and really just everything, at that time, uh, uh, pointed towards the military. Um, one of the rea—one of the main reasons I did go in though was: I had always had an interest in the military. I mean, I could—I could remember, even back in elementary school, doing a book report on World War II. You know, so I had always had an interest in the, uh—in the military, um, and just kind of, you know, the, um, spirit of the American soldier, I guess you could say.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, and, uh, why did you choose the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, because I—when I went in, um, you know—like I said, I went in for a lot of reasons. uh, and I was actually very, uh—you know, I never planned on making it a career, but I did wanna do everything that I could do while I was in. um, and I figured that, uh, if—if I went in the Marines, uh, that I was going to have to be hardcore for three years, whether I liked it or not. Um, I didn’t want to go into the Navy, because the idea of being on a ship for nine months at a time didn’t appeal to me. Um, and I didn’t want to go into the Air Force, because I—I didn’t—I wasn’t aware of some of the, uh—some of the things that you could do in the Air Force, at that time. Um, but, uh, uh, I wanted to—I chose the Army, because I thought it was a good compromise between being, uh—uh, being very hardcore and not so much. So I went in that, uh, figuring that if I really liked it, then I could go that route. Uh, if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, um, did your dad influence that decision at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Since he was from the Air Force?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Nope.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, but how did they react when you decided to enlist—your family?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, my dad being a veteran, um, I—I think they were happy about it. Of course, you know, they’re concerned. You know, a parent—a, uh—a child going in the military is always a concern to the parent, but, um, I think that they were, um—I think that they were happy about it, uh, for the exact reason that it turned out, as the military, uh, um, helps you mature a lot, and you—you grow up—you grow up pretty quick.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh, what do you remember most—what do you most remember about basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, boy, was it cold [<em>laughs</em>]. I went in—I was in, uh—uh, I went in November—November 9<sup>th</sup>[, 1983]. So, uh—so basic training was eight weeks, although we got, uh, Christmas exodus. So we got—I think we were out for like two weeks over Christmas, Which was very shocking to me, but, um—but it was cold. It was cold. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And why was it cold? Where were you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, it was Fort Jackson[, Columbia], South Carolina, and, um, I did, uh, uh—I did both basic and, uh, AIT [Advanced Individual Training], uh, at Fort Jackson, uh, South Carolina. So I was there from November until probably about March [1984], I guess it would be, and, uh, you know, after I—after I went on from that, you know, I was—I was in Germany. You’ll probably be getting to that, but I was in Germany, uh, and we’d go to the field in the snow and all that kind of stuff, but the coldest day I’ve ever spent in my life was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, um, out on the artillery range.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, just from my job. Ju—just from my job. I—I had wanted to, um—I wanted to go into [Army] Special Forces. Uh, and, uh, kinda—I—I ran into a lot of red tape, uh, start—starting with the fact that, if I had gone that route, I wouldn’t have been able to enlist for another year, and I really couldn’t wait that long, so I went in hoping that I would get in that route. Um, Things didn’t work out like that, but, uh, um, so I just—the—the, uh—really, the only advanced training I had was from my job.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about your job?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I was in logistics. I was in supply, and, um, uh, so, you know, again, I took that at—at Fort Jackson, and, uh, one of the things that I—I learned about that in there is when you watch this—particularly like the old World War II movies—uh, you know, you see the stereotypical Supply Sergeant, you know, with the hat cocked back and the little, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Cigar sticking out of their mouth[sic]. Um, and that’s not—that’s not the way it is. Um, and, especially these days, ‘cause, with computers, they have everything really, uh, locked down. Back then, uh, you could still do some wheeling and dealing, because things weren’t as, uh—as accountable as they are now. When I say “things,” I mean the supplies themselves. It wasn’t as easy to account for them then, but one of the things that—that, uh—that surprised me about that job is: eh, we took the, um—we took the, uh, combat role—not that we saw any combat—but we took that very seriously, because if you think about it, when the enemy attacks, what’s one of the first things they attack? It’s the supply line. So, go—you know, going into supplies sounds like, you know, I guess, wheel and deal…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And smoke cigars, but it’s actually a little more—a little more serious than that. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, what was it like going overseas? You mentioned Germany earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was my—that was my first time overseas. Um, you know, again, I was 20 years old, at the time, uh, uh, but it was—it was a little overwhelming, and, uh, I remember, uh—I remember when I first got there, uh, I flew into Frankfurt[, Hesse, Germany], and I was stationed about two hours south of Frankfurt. So I think—I think there were about a half dozen of us or so that were in the van. Um, and as we made our way down there, they’d drop off one by one, and, of course, I was the last one.</p>
<p>But, um, when—when he dropped me off—I’ll—I’ll never forget—When he dropped me off at my duty post, it was just a small air base. So you could walk from the front gate to the back gate in about five minutes, and, um, when he dropped me off, it was an overcast day, cold, and I had no idea where to go, and he spoke no English whatsoever [<em>laughs</em>]. So all he could do was point to this building, and, uh, so I walked in the building and just kind of found my way from there, but, um, uh, that was my initial, uh—initial experience going overseas. Uh, going overseas, uh, in some ways, really formed, uh, a lot of the values that I have today. So I don’t know how in depth, uh, you meant that question to be.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No, that’s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Tell me more about it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, um…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How it impacts you today.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, you know, it was a completely different culture, you know? And I—I had, uh—I had never experienced anything like that before. Um, I remember when we were, uh, in process. Because when—when you get in country, uh, for, um—I think we went through two weeks of, um, kind of an indoctrination on the German culture, you know? And again, at that time, it was East [Germany] and West Germany. So we were in, we were—we were in West Germany.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>laughs</em>] they—they would actually hire a local. Uh, it was a German, uh—a Germany lady that came in, and she was just, you know, teaching us basic German phrases and things like that. Um, the very first thing she taught us was “Ein bier, bitte.” So “one beer, please,” of course, but one—one of the first things that really jumped out at me about being overseas was, uh, one of the military personnel’s telling us, uh, um, basically, to, uh, uh, be good boys while we were over there, because at—I don’t know if it’s still this way—but, at the time, there was no such thing as police brutality.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, uh, you know—so the <em>polizei</em> tell you to do something, you do it, ‘cause there is no police brutality over there [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So, um, could you tell me more about what you did in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, that’s when I was with the 210<sup>th</sup> Field Artillery Brigade. Um, I was working in the, uh—working in the, uh, supply area over there. So, um, We were stationed—I was stationed at a little place called Herzo Base, which is near Herz—Herzogenaurach[, Bavaria], Germany, which is near Nuremberg, which is where they had the war trials, uh—The German war trials. <a title="">[2]</a> Um, uh, and the air base that I was at was actually an old Luftwaffe, uh, base, and it was right on the hilltop, uh, and where we were stationed, uh, as it was told to me—it’s a pretty interesting story, because, you know, obviously, there’s a[sic] air field out there, but apparently, during World War II, it was a secret air base. So what they would do is: they would, uh—when they weren’t, uh, using it, they would flood the field. So from the air, it would just look like a lake, and then when they—when they wanted to, uh—when they wanted to, uh, use it, then they would drain it, of course, and take off, and land, and do whatever it is that they needed to do. Uh, but the one thing that was kind of, uh, eerie over there was that, um: we had, uh, lots of underground passages, and they were all padlocked shut, and, uh, the rumor was—I don’t—I don’t know if it was true or not—but the, uh—the rumor was that there was, um—actually, in some of them, uh, supposedly, there were some old World War II planes down there, but, uh, they were concerned that some things had been booby-trapped, so apparently, the—all of that was flooded.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, of course, we, uh—we never went down there, but, um—but, like I say, I was there—I was there for 18 months, Uh, um, in the uh Headquarters. It’s called “Headquarters [and] Headquarters Battery.”</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, I read in your biographical data sheet that you would go on alert and get ready for battle. What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, and that was something, uh—yeah. At that time, um, one-fifth of the entire Army was stationed in Germany. Um, and alerts were something that we did take seriously over there, and, um, uh, when we, uh—when we went on alert, then, within about two hours, uh, we had to be ready to go. So we were—where I was stationed, I believe it was—I believe we were only about like two hours from the Czech [Republic] border, um, but yeah. When we went on alert, we would have to be, uh, ready to go, and being in supply, we were in charge of all the, uh—all of the, uh, weapons. So we had to first issue everybody their weapons, and then all of the ammunition and everything. We had to pack up in the trucks, um, and be ready to go, and we went on alert probably about once a month or so. Sometimes, we would actually pull out and go somewhere, and sometimes it would just be a drill. We’d load up the trucks and then unload them, but yeah. That was something we took seriously over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what do you remember most about your service in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, [<em>sniffs</em>], uh, a couple of things. One, uh—speaking of alerts, one was: we, uh—we had an incident—I believe it was with Libya—where we shot down a couple of, uh, Libyan jets. Um, and when that happened, everybody across the—across the globe went on—went on alert. So I remember that, and also, about a month before I left, there was a terrorist attack at the Frankfurt Airport.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, they bombed the, uh—they bombed the Frankfurt Airport. Um, so, uh, uh, that and like, say, the alerts, and, uh, some concerts that I saw over there. I —n fact, I saw the very last concert of Van Halen with, uh, David Lee Roth.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That was their 1984—their 1984 tour [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah[?]. Wow[?], that’s very lucky.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep, I saw them [<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>How did you keep in contact with people back at home, while you were in Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s not like it is today.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I mean, that was, um—it was either mail or phone calls. Um, the mail would take probably a week, and I had a girlfriend back here, at the time, um, and, uh, uh, mail would take about a week, and phone calls were hard, because the only option really, um, was the payphone. So you had to really [inaudible]. I had to write, you know, and say “Hey. Next Sunday I’ll call you at three o’clock.” [<em>laughs</em>], and, uh, that’s pretty much, uh,—that’s pretty much, uh, how the communication went, so it was, uh—it was, uh, difficult. I did, uh—when I was in Germany, I did, uh, come home for a month on leave from over there, and that was actually part of the reason why.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me about a typical day in Germany for you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, yeah, we’d get up, and, uh, you know—by the way, you were asking me about one of the, uh—one of my memories from Germany. Um, I was a Florida boy, so that was the first time I’d seen snow.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, um, what I—I—I remember two things about that. One was, um, uh, much to my surprise, it’s actually warmer when it snows…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Than when it doesn’t snow, and that was very surprising to me, ‘cause the coldest days over there was when it didn’t snow at all, but, um, another time, uh—another time, uh, uh, I was walking from—from supply—from where I worked over to the mess hall for lunch, which was only about, uh—I don’t know—about maybe 400 feet or—well, it was probably longer—probably about 200 yards. You know, it wasn’t that far away, but it was cold that day and I had on—I had on everything I owned</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And by the time I got there, I was ready to get inside, but, um, uh, those were—those were two things, uh, that I remember from over there, but, typical day: we’d get up, um, we would have, um, uh, uh—we’d have PT—physical training—at six o’clock. So that’d be our—be our morning formation, uh, make sure everybody was there. Uh, we’d do our—we’d do our exercises, Go for a run, so forth and so on. Uh, and then come back, uh, go get something to eat, and then our next formation was at 8:30 or 8:45. Um, so we’d get our, you know, briefing for the day. Whatever it is that we were going to do, um, and then we’d go to work, uh, um, which, usually, at least one day a week for us involved going on a supply run down to Nuremberg. So I learned how to—how to drive a truck, how to back up a truck with just two side mirrors and towing a trailer.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In a deuce and a half truck. Um, so, you know, we’d—we’d work all day, and then, uh, we’d have our, um, uh, evening formation. We’d have it about 5:45, and then they would lower the flag at five, and, uh, that was a—that was a typical day.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>The whole[?] day?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, could you tell me how—how you became a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, I had some college when I went in, in the first place. Like I said, I was only in for three years, so when I enlisted, I was already a, uh, PFC [Private First Class]. So I—I went in as an E[nlisted Rank]-3.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, when I—after—After basic and AIT, when I was sent, uh, uh, to Germany, uh, as soon as I got there, the Sergeant, uh, immediately put me in for promotion to E4, uh—Spec[ialist] 4. So I was, uh—I don’t recall how long it took for that to go through. Probably a month or two. So I had a head start, because I had had some college.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they, uh—um, when I was back here at Fort Stewart, uh, for my last year, uh, they promoted me to Sergeant about six months before I got out.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I think part of that—yeah. I think part of that plan was to try to get me to, uh, reenlist.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible] [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Which—yeah. It didn’t work.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>They do that.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do as a Sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well, then, Uh, I—as a, um—as a private and as a specialist, you pulled a lot you know—you pulled a lot. You pulled the guard duty stuff, you pulled the, you know—the KP [kitchen patrol], uh, that kind of stuff. When I became a Sergeant, um, then I was on the other side of that. so I was, you know, instead of—instead of being on the guard duty, I’d, you know—once a month or so, I’d be the NCO [non-commissioned officer] in charge at the barracks, ‘cause—‘cause, at night, at five o’clock, when everybody gets off, um, you had to have a, uh, Sergeant and a, uh—and a, uh, non-NCO that[sic] would be on duty for the whole night, you know, in case something happened. So, uh, then I became more in the management…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I guess you could say. Yeah. With, uh, zero leadership training, at the time [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Did that change overtime? Did you develop some sort of leadership, after a while?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Well, I—it was only six months. Like I said, I was promoted six months before I’d got out. So, um—yeah. You know, I learned a few things, But, uh, really the, eh—not ‘til later. Not ‘til after I got out and I reflected on, um,—I—I don’t want to say mistakes that I’ve made—just, um, inexperience, you know? And, uh, reflecting on them later is when they really paid dividends, but yeah. I really didn’t have enough time left in my enlistment to, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Learn a lot of lessons. Although, they did—they did—they tried to, uh, get me to reenlist to go to Warrant Officer [Candidate] School.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Interesting[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, you said no. Why?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, first of all, I had never, um—I, you know—I had never intended on making the military a career. Um, but also, you know, I was in a—in a, uh—in a really tough time, because I was in from 1983 to 1986. Um, and that was just, Uh, you know—that was just—what? Ten years after the end of the draft and eight years after the end of Vietnam [War], and I guess it would be three years after the failed, um, Iran hostage rescue.<a title="">[3]</a> So, you know, when I was in, you know, the, um, you know—the military was really beaten down. The, uh, bu—uh, a lot of the equipment we had was left over from Vietnam. Um, a lot of the good soldiers—particularly in the NCO ranks—a lot of the good soldiers, uh, had retired after Vietnam, and right in the, uh—at the end of the [19]70s, um, uh, you know, Cart—during the [James “Jimmy” Earl] Carter[, Jr.] administration, the—the—the defense budget had really been cut to almost nothing, you know? So the equipment wasn’t being updated, uh, you know, because of the budget cuts. The good soldiers were getting out. You know, they weren’t reenlisting. They weren’t able to attract good, uh, recruits, but then, you know, when [Ronald Wilson] Reagan came in in ‘80, he spent basically all of the ‘80s building all of this back up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, but I was in kind of at the beginning of that, and, you know, in retrospect, I—I, you know—again, at 20 years old, I didn’t really understand this, at the time, but, um, you know, in retrospect, uh, what he was doing was he was putting a lot of his, uh—a lot of the, uh, defense budget money—particularly in the early years—into modernizing the equipment. You know…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>The Stealth Bomber,<a title="">[4]</a> the [M1] Abrams Tank, that kind of stuff. Um, so it wasn’t really going into training yet.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that didn’t really kick in, until later in the ‘80s, and, uh, it paid dividends, as we saw in [Operation] Desert Storm, you know, in—in ‘91—I guess it was—Or 1990—‘91.<a title="">[5]</a> Whatever that was. Uh, it paid dividends then. Um, So I just—I—I didn’t, um—uh, I didn’t, you know—I wanted to go in. Um, I—I wanted to, uh, you know, experience the lifestyle. I, you know—I—I had—I had, uh, um, you know, admired what the—what the American soldier stood for, you know? And I wanted to go and experience that, but I never intended on making it a career, and when I got in there, um, you know, we weren’t—we weren’t really doing a whole heck of a lot of training, at that time. So I just wanted to get out and move on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Uh, so what did you do when you came back to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, I went back to school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, I had had some, uh—uh, I had, uh, um, almost two years of college before I went in. Uh, I came back. I finished, uh—finished up my AA [Associate of Arts], um, and then got the Bachelor’s, uh got the CPA, uh, and, you know, so forth and so on.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, um, did you do any service in Orlando? Or was it straight from Germany back to—you were done, after Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>No, no, after Germany—I spent, uh, 18 months in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>A year and a half in Germany, and then, I was sent to Fort Stewart, Georgia, for my last year. So I spent my last year…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>In Fort Stewart, Georgia, um, which is where I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>That would be [<em>laughs</em>]—yeah. Um, yeah. If I’d have known how good I had it in Germany…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>I would have stayed there [<em>laughs</em>], because, uh, the—one of—one of the things that I didn’t appreciate is that, over in Germany, um, you know, we all wanted to travel, You know, which—by the way, is[sic] some other memories I have of Germany—is doing something with traveling over there. Um, but, you know, we all wanted to travel, including the Officers, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So they wanted to get off on a Friday and, you know—and go travel, as well. Well, at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there’s not really a whole heck of a lot to see. So, uh, there wasn’t—wasn’t much to do, except sit on post and work [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh—but the thing about it: I was with the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry—and this was actually, um, I believe, part of, uh, Reagan’s, uh modernization—is we were actually a rapid deployment force there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So we were, uh—we were, um, uh, trained so that, within two hours’ notice, uh, we could go anywhere in the world, uh, and be there within 24 hours, and ready to go. Um, one of the things that we did, uh—eh, even though there wasn’t a lot of training going on, at that time—One of the things we did do, um, was, every year, the unit would go out into the, uh, [Fort Irwin & the] National Training Center, out in the, uh, Mojave Desert and, uh, do desert training, which, uh, came into play in, uh, Oper—in, uh, Desert Storm.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Because, uh, when that kicked off, of course, in the deserts of, uh, Iraq and Kuwait, uh, the 24<sup>th</sup> Infantry Division—my old unit—was, uh—played a—played a pretty key role in that, uh—in that, uh, campaign. Uh, be—Again, because we had—we—we—we’d get a desert, every year. In fact, uh, when—the year I was in with them, we went to the Mojave, but the year before that, uh, they actually went to the Sahara Desert and trained for a month over there.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Were you happy you didn’t have to go anywhere near there?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. I felt bad, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>When—when we were in the—when we were in the Mojave, we were there from mid-July to mid-August.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, unlike being cold in Germany, it was hot.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Out there, and, uh, I really felt and I have a lot of respect for the soldiers, uh, in the, uh—in Desert Storm. Because, uh, they were, you know—that kicked off in January[, 17, 1991], and I—I can’t help but think that there was—the time of that was the cooler weather, but I remember seeing on TV. I remember seeing, uh, video of them training in the summer, and ‘cause one of the things they were worried about was the, uh—was gas attacks.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And I remember seeing them in the summer, running around in the middle of the desert in full chemical suits, and I don’t know that I could have done that in my best day. I have a lot of respect for those guys, because we used wear those chemical suits. They have, uh, charcoal in them, and, um, uh, we used to wear those thing to stay warm in snow, and they were running around in those things in the summer, over in, uh—over in Kuwait, getting ready for that, and, uh—I don’t—I don’t—I do not know how they did it. So yes. I’m glad I—I’m glad I was not part of that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And, um, Between Germany and your service in Georgia and South Carolina, what was your, uh, most—most—most memorable about your time in the service? [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, my gosh. Um, I think the comradery, as—as cliché as that may sound.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>It’s actually very true, because, uh, you know, especially in your training—and particularly, in basic and AIT—you know, there’s kind of an us-against-them, you know, mentality, because, you know, they’re, you know—part of basic training, uh, you know, as they tell you—which is true—is, you know, they gotta break you down to build you up, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>So, um, you know—so we were, you know—we were really banding together to survive, uh—to survive that, and then, you know, even in the units, uh, you know, you build up a comradery with, uh—with, you know, your friends, and they’re the people you work with, Um, and, uh, you know, which carries over into going out at night, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm </strong>You know, uh, Going out, you know, and, uh, doing your thing, but when you’re, you know—when you’re going out with, uh, you know, 12 brothers, you know, and you would trust any of them with your life, um, that’s—that’s, uh—That’s a rare connection, and that’s what—that’s what I miss the most and that’s—that—and that’s what I remember. That’s what I remember the most.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm. You remember the people.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Like I say, uh—like I say, the, uh—comradery.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, what did you do during your free time?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, well…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Travel?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Did some—no. I did some growing up.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /> </strong>I did some growing up. I, um—‘cause I was, uh—when I went in, you know, I was in my party phase.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And, uh, you know, especially, when I hit[?] to Germany. Uh, Oktoberfest [<em>laughs</em>], uh “Ein bier, bitte?” Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, that whole thing. Um, my first—my first six months in Germany, when I wasn’t, uh—when I wasn’t working, I was, uh, trying to sample every beer that, uh, Germany ever made.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and after about six months, you know, I—I woke up, uh—I woke up one day, and realized that I had been there six months, and I had nothing to show for it, you know? And about that same time—I’d, uh—I’d—I had been a musician my whole life—and about that time, I kinda was, uh, re—uh, uh, re-interested in music, and, um, I actually, uh, started, uh—started playing music again. So I started—I kinda[?]—I really, you know—I quit the partying, um, and I would spend a lot of time playing music. In fact, uh, the first band I ever played in my life was over there</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Was over there,in German, Which would be—qualify as another memory from over there [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, But I—but that’s what I did. I kinda, you know, like I said, grew up a little bit, uh, got over the partying thing, and started, uh, laying the groundwork for the future.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>There you go, and, um, when you came back—right when your service ended—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, it was a tremendous sense of freedom.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]. I bet.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, well, you know, when you’re a soldier, uh, the government owns you 24-7, 365, and, um, uh, you know, when, you know, we—Up in Fort Stewart—and Germany, for that matter, but, uh—you know, in Fort Stewart, uh, you know, we’d go to the field a month at a time, so you—I mean, you’re there for a month, you know? Um, and it—It was the freedom getting out, and, uh, you know, I was—I was used to, you know—for three years, I had—I had woken up every morning at 5:30 or so, and exercised at six, and, uh, I, you know—I was determined to continue doing that, which lasted about two weeks [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But, uh, big, big, big sense of freedom</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Ah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And pride.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. I was proud of what I did, um, Even though, you know, at that time, uh, you know—at that time, we really weren’t heralded, uh, as heroes, like the soldiers are now, and rightfully so, ‘cause like, you know—like I say, it was, you know—it was only about 10 years after Vietnam</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And everybody was kind of over the military. They—they were—they were tired of hearing about it, and they really, you know—They just really didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh. When you left the military, did you—I know you went back and did your education—but did you work at all, while you were doing that? Or did you just go straight into school?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, no, ‘cause I got out, uh—I got out in November, so I got out November 8<sup>th</sup>[, 1989], um, and I enrolled for the, uh—for the spring semester the following January [1990].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so yeah. I did, you know—I did work, but my main focus was on school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>School?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, and that was—that was part of the growing up—‘cause that’s part of the growing up in the military, but also, when I was in, I—I had the, um—I had the, uh, v[eterans’] benefits, which was the—the successor to the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[6]</a> So I actually, um—I actually earned college money…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>That, uh—while I was in there—while I was there. Yeah. When—when I was in Germany, I tried to take a college class over there. That didn’t work out too well.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>But—no. So when—when I got out, I was—I was, uh—I was pretty head strong on going back to finishing school.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s good.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, did you keep in touch with any of the people you served with?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I did not, until, um, uh, really, just a couple years ago, and it was, uh, primarily, uh, thanks to Facebook, but, um, I’ve, uh—I’ve actually only, uh—well, I take that back, because there was one guy down in Tampa. Uh, uh, my roommates in, uh—in, uh, Fort Stewart—one of them lived in Tampa, the other was from Virginia, and I did—right after I got out, I kept—kept in touch with them a little bit, but, um, I actually really didn’t keep in touch with anybody, until, uh, one of my best friends from Germany, um—we had a, uh—we had a reunion, uh—uh, I guess it was—eight—nine months ago. Him[sic] and his family were coming through town here to go on a cruise, and, uh, that was the first time I had seen him in, uh—in 20 years, and, uh—and, uh, we had a—we had a good chat about the—about those times, and It was interesting to me, becau—because, it was, you know—I had my perspective, but it was interesting to me to get someone else’s perspective on the same experiences, uh, from—from 20 years prior.</p>
<p>So—yeah, and I did—now that I think about it, I did, um—oh gosh. This was probably a good 10 years—No. it’s more than that. Probably a good 15 years ago, uh, My Sergeant from—from, uh—from Germany, uh,—I did go and see him. He was—he lived up in Atlanta[, Georgia], and I did go and see him one weekend, and, uh, it was—it was kinda—it was interesting, you know, because, when you’re, you know—when he’s your Sergeant, you have one relationship, But when you’re both civilians, you know, 20 years later, uh, you can talk a little more freely, I guess you could say, and he was a good guy. That was another, um—you’d asked me earlier about, uh, influences and memories and stuff, and he was—he was, uh—he was a big influence on me. Sergeant Jones—he was, uh—he was a big influence—Sergeant Wilson Jones. Uh, He was a, uh, big influence on me. He was one of the best bosses that[sic] I ever had in my life, and, uh, I learned a lot about, um—I learned a lot about initiative and perseverance, uh, from working under him. He was—he was a good guy, and he’s still alive, to my knowledge.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>To my knowledge, he is.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And, uh, so maturing, growing up, and, uh, Sergeant Jones. Was there anything else, with your time in the military, uh, service—or, military service, that influenced your life since leaving?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Yeah, you know, uh, you know the—I learned the military changes ya, and, you know, whether it changes you for the good or the bad, I think it kind of depends on the individual, and the experiences that you have in there. Um, you know, Like I say, uh, I was fortunate enough, where we didn’t have any conflicts, um, going on, at the time. So, uh, you know, while—while I was standing on the wall, wolf—the wolf never came, and I’m happy about that.</p>
<p>But—no. The—the military changes you, and, you know, you—my maturation process, in that, you know, I learned a lot about, uh, you know, initiative, a lot about perseverance…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, self-esteem. In fact, you know, uh, Sergeant Jones—I reminded him of this story: when I—when I saw him, uh—it’s probably been a good 15 years ago, but, um, uh, you know, one time—and again, you know, 20 year old kid, you know? I don’t remember what exactly the details were, but he had sent me back to the supply room to find something. You know, so I went back there, and I looked around, and I didn’t found[sic]—find it. So I came back, and told him—I said “Hey, Sergeant,” You know, “I couldn’t find it.” and he said “Well, then you didn’t look.” And I said, you know— I was like, “What are you talking about? I just—I just got back from there. I couldn’t find it.” He said “No, if you had looked, you would have found it. Now go back there and find it.” And He was right. You know, it was back there, I just didn’t look hard enough.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And that, you know—that’s one of the—I, you know—I could sit here the rest of the day, telling stories like that, but, um, you know, that’s something that’s carried with me through—really, through today. Um, you know, when I was working, I remember a, uh—a colleague of mine, when I was earning my PhD—um, I was, uh, uh, uh, you know—PhD is a stressful, stressful thing to go through, and I was—something was going on, and I was wound up about it, and I remember him saying, you know, “Hey,” you know, “Don’t worry about it, ‘cause you’re a warrior,” You know? You’re—Even though this is going on now, you’ll still be okay, because—and That’s directly rooted back into—into my military experience, in that, you know—in that perse—that perseverance.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, so—yeah. All sorts of, you know—all sorts of, uh, uh, values, um, you know, that I—that I learned, and, you know, some of them were good. Um, uh, some of them were good. You know, I saw some, uh—uh, some experiences—not—I saw some things that I—that set a bad example for me, uh, which served me well, because I didn’t want anything to do with that. You know, so—yeah. Lots of—lots of things.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>So what advice would you give today’s military members?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, phew. That’s a tough one, uh, you know, because we’ve got some conflicts going on in the world right now.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Also, when you enlist right now, uh, it’s quite possible you might end up in a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, so I would, you know—I—I would measure my words carefully, but, uh, you know, barring the combat part of it, um, you know, I would say—I would say to enjoy the time, and, uh—especially if you get sent overseas. Um, uh, uh, do some traveling. That was one regret that I have about my time in Germany is that I didn’t do a lot of traveling. We did some, uh, traveling. You know, Spain and France.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>We—we did some traveling, but, um, uh, I would like to have done a lot more traveling, in retrospect. Um, uh, and serve with honor. You know, that was One of the things that, uh—that attracted me to the military in the first place, uh—was, you know, uh, I saw examples of soldiers, and, they’re, you know—they’re people that[sic] are, um, uh, you know—that[sic] are serving something greater than themselves. You know, they’re making a sacrifice that’s not, uh, you know—they’re not just in there for self-serving reasons. They’re serving, you know, the freedom of the country, um, and, you know, again, that comradery. They’re just, you know—in short, they’re just something greater than—than themselves, and, you know, my advice would be, uh, to enjoy that, because, uh, it may end, when you get out of the, uh—when you get out of the military.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Alright. So, uh, what do you do in your free time now?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, surf [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>You still surf?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah, I surf. I, you know, spend as much time with my daughter as I can.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, You know, still, uh—still working out. Uh, I have all sorts of hobbies. I like to cook. Uh, I fly radio-controlled airplanes. In fact, one of my recent hobbies—as of about two years ago, um—is, uh—is shooting. Uh, when I—When I went into the military, you know, I was a city boy.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>So I never grew up around guns or anything. Uh, And when I went in the military, uh, obviously, we shot. Uh, you know, I—I had, uh, a lot—we—we—I had some fun experiences on the range, shooting some, uh—some of the automatic weapons, and, uh, there was—there was a lot of those fun experiences in there, but I never really thought much about it, you know? It was just something we did.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And when we went to the range, I always enjoyed it</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh,but I never really—never really thought much about it. So, when I got out, um, you know, I never owned a gun. I was never around a gun. I just never thought about it. About probably three years ago now, a friend of mine, um, who was into guns, you know, said “Hey. You wanna come out to the range with me one day?” And I said, “Alright. Yeah. I haven’t shot, you know, in 25 years”—or however long it’s been. So I went out with him, and, uh, you know, what I was trained on was the M16 [rifle].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>And the civilian version of that is AR-15.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So he had an AR-15. Um, you know, when I went out—when I took basic training, it was cold—we went out on a cold day, and, uh, I went out there, and, uh, you know, he gave his AR-15, and I did all that I knew to do, which was, you know, the way that I was trained in the military. So, you know, I got down into my prone position on the ground, and, you know, I put about six rounds in about, you know—about an inch in the target, and was thinking, <em>Man, maybe I missed my calling in life here</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br />‘</strong>Cause I hadn’t shot, you know—I hadn’t even picked up a weapon in 25 years, but being out there in the cold, um, you know, and the smell of the gun powder when you shoot it, and then—and then, remembering how to shoot, uh, you know, was muscle memory, um, and it all came back to me, and that was a, uh—that was a pleasant memory, because I—I remembered, uh, you know, those—those were always good times in the military, going out in the range, and that’s actually become, uh, one of my hobbies.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>So, you know, I own—I own several guns now. We go out—we go out shooting, about every Saturday morning, uh, on the range. Um, and that’s, uh—that’s a—that’s kinda reminiscing</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Over the, uh, uh—from the, uh—from the military days, but…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Do you ever take your daughter with you?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, I took her once. She’s, uh—she’s not real, uh, uh, interested in guns, But I did, uh—I did take her out there once, just to show her that there was nothing to be scared of. Um, so, you know, she’s not—she’s not scared of them, but she respects them and stays away from them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm <br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Um, is there anything else you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Uh, oh, my gosh. Um, [<em>sighs</em>] probably—I mean, uh, you know—I’m—I’m—I’m glad I went in. I mean, it—Like I say, it really shaped a lot of the values that I have, uh, these days. Uh, And, you know, it—sometimes—sometimes that’s not always good, because, uh, you know, when I’m, uh—when I’m in, uh—when I’m in, uh, a task mode, then I kind of have a flashback, you know, to the—to the military days, Like with, you know—like with Sergeant Jones. Like, hey, if you got something to do, get it done.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You know, I don’t want to hear any excuses. Get it done, but, um, no. I was—I was glad I went in. I did, uh—I did a lot of growing up, when I was in there, and, you know, uh, like I said, before I went in, I was not a student. Uh, when I came out, I was a student, and, uh, my—my GPA [grade point average], uh—I don’t know remember exactly what it was—but I got very few grades less than a[sic]—less than an A, uh, when I came out.</p>
<p>So, uh—so no. It was a—it was a good experience. Um, I’m glad I did it. Uh, you know, I respect the, uh—the guys that are going in now, and women—the people that are going in, uh, now, because you gotta—now, um, you know—I—I haven’t looked at the enlistment standards. I’ve never compared them across time, but I, you know—I think you’ve got to be smarter to go in now, because they have all this high-tech equipment…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Um, and they’re doing things now that we didn’t do, uh—that we didn’t do back then. So I really—I really have a lot of respect for the people going in these days. In addition to the fact that, when you go in now, you may wind [<em>yawns</em>] —you may wind up in a combat zone very easily, in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, um—so yeah. I could, uh—I could, uh—I could probably sit here all afternoon…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>If you gave me the opportunity, but I don’t think you have enough tape to do that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Hm, alright. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sturm…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>For your time. It was an honor to be able to interview you</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I very much appreciate you for your time and service.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>I…</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Veterans’ Day just passed. So we’ll be in touch again, and we’ll have a copy of your interview for you.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>And I’ll bring it to you on the [UCF] Lake Mary campus…</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>Because I want to see it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Hollingsworth<br /></strong>That’s it.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Very good.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>42 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Sturm<br /></strong>Yeah. There are probably more things I could have thought up. I didn’t know how much tape I…</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially Operation Urgent Fury.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Nuremberg Trials.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Officially Operation Eagle Claw, or Operation Evening Light, or Operation Rice Bowl.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Northrop B-2 Spirit.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> January 17, 1991 – February 28, 1991.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
210th Field Artillery Brigade
34th Infantry Division
accountants
Advanced Individual Training
advanced training
AIT
alcohol
alcoholic beverages
alerts
AR-15
Army Special Forces
basic training
beers
budget cuts
cold war
colleges
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
comradery
CVHP
David Lee Roth
defense
defense budgets
Desert Storm
desert training
E-3
E-4
education
Enlisted Rank 3
Enlisted Rank 4
enlistment
Federal Republic of Germany
firearms
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Fort Irwin & the National Training Center
Fort Jackson
Fort Stewart
Frankfurt Airport
Frankfurt, Germany
FRG
Georgia
German Air Force
Germans
Germany
Gulf War
Gulf War I
guns
Headquarters and Headquarters Battery
Herzo Base
Herzogenaurach, Germany
HHB
higher education
Iraq
Iraq War
James Earl Carter, Jr.
Jimmy Carter
Katie Hollingsworth
Kuwait
Kuwait War
law enforcement
Luftwaffe
M16 rifles
military training
Mojave Desert
music
musicians
National Training Center
NCO
non-commissioned officers
Nuremberg Trials
Nuremberg, Germany
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Persian Gulf War
PFC
police
police brutality
polizei
Private First Class
range shooting
rapid deployment forces
Ray Sturm
Republic of Iraq
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Wilson Reagan
sergeants
shooting
shooting ranges
soldiers
Special Forces
Specialist 4
State of Kuwait
supply
terrorism
terrorists
Thirty-Fourth Infantry Division
training
Two Hundred and Tenth Field Artillery Brigade
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Special Forces
UCF
University of Central Florida
Van Halen
veterans
veterans' benefits
Warrior Thunder
weapons
weather
West Germany
Wilson Jones
Winter Park
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0b990020107e0d56317297dd472eadae.pdf
cacb275a5be012930c31e1cb34c46e87
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Chad Etchison
Alternative Title
Oral History, Etchison
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Description
An oral history interview of Chad Etchison (b. 1974), who joined the U.S. Navy in December of 1992 and served during Operation Active Endeavor and the Global War on Terror (GWOT). Ethicson was born in Anderson, Indiana, on December 12, 1974. He attended boot camp at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) and later served on several Navy frigates. He also served President Bill Clinton (b. 1946) as part of the White House Communication Agency and attended the Fleet Combat Training Center in Dam Neck, Virginia. In Orlando, Etchison served at the Naval Expeditionary Combat Command Operations Force Center and the Navy Operations Support Center. Ethicson achieved the rank of Senior Chief Petty Officer (CPO) and earned a Joint Service Commendation Medal, two Navy Commendation Medals, five Navy Achievement Medals, and a Presidential Service Badge.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Chad Eric Joyner on March 15, 2014, three months before Etchison left the Navy. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, NTC Orlando, the Grinder, Ethcison's naval career after Orlando, and how the Orlando area has changed over time.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:35 Enlistment<br />0:02:42 Boot camp and training at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando)<br />0:07:50 Taking leave and helping with recruitment<br />0:09:06 Relationships with other recruits<br />0:11:12 Instructors<br />0:12:58 Hardest part of NTC, proudest moment, and memorable story<br />0:16:22 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:20:53 NTC in comparison to other bases<br />0:22:15 Important locations at NTC Orlando<br />0:24:04 Graduation<br />0:24:54 Naval career after training<br />0:29:48 Boarding vessels and contraband searches<br />0:31:45 Contacts from the Navy<br />0:32:47 Naval values<br />0:36:50 How Orlando has changed over time<br />0:38:50 NTC€™s legacy and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:42:20 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Chad Etchison Interview conducted by Chad Eric Joyner at the UCF Libraries in Orlando, Florida on March 15, 2014.
Type
Sound
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Ethcison, Chad</a>. Interviewed by Chad Eric Joyner, March 15, 2014. Audio record available. Item DP0014895, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
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Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
18-page digital transcript of original 43-minute and 22-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Ethcison, Chad</a>. Interviewed by Chad Eric Joyner, March 15, 2014. Audio record available. Item DP0014895, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Anderson, Indiana
Jonesboro, Georgia
Recruit Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Training Center Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois
Naval Training Center San Diego, San Diego, California
Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida
Naval Station Mayport, Jacksonville, Florida
Des Moines, Iowa
Navy Operations Support Center, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Ethcison, Chad
Joyner, Chad Eric
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-02-22
Date Copyrighted
2014-02-22
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
39.7 MB
198 KB
Medium
43-minute and 22-second audio DVD/MP4/CD
18-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Chad Eric Joyner and Chad Etchison.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/274/rec/1" target="_blank">Etchison, Chad</a>
Date Modified
2014-09-01
Transcript
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Today is March 15<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Chad Etchison, who served in the United States Navy. Mr. Etchison currently serves as Command Senior Chief at NOS—NOSC [Navy Operational Support Center] in Orlando. My name is Chad Eric Joyner. We are interviewing Mr. Etchison as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are doing this interview at the UCF Library in Orlando, Florida. Senior Chief, if you will please start off by telling us when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I was born in Anderson, Indiana, on December 19<sup>th</sup>, 1973.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, my dad was a mechanic, uh, for Delta Air Lines and, uh—prior to the Navy, and my mom was a schoolteacher.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Did you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Yeah, I have a[sic] older brother, Mark, who’s, uh—currently works for Anderson University in Indiana. He’s a football coach, and I have a younger sister, Lana, who, uh, works in advertising in Atlanta, Georgia.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, well, when I was a very young age, we moved to Jonesboro, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. So I, uh, grew up in Jonesboro, went to elementary school all the way through high school right there in Jonesboro.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>What did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>High school. I joined right [out of] high school. I—I—actually, I joined the Navy, um, just a couple months into my senior year. So I know what I was going to do.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Um, when did you join?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I joined in December of [19]91.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>Why’d you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do after high school. Um, my brother had received a football scholarship. He was a big sports star. I got a couple offers, but I kind of wanted to step outside—or from under his shadow a little bit. Do something different. Uh, and both my grandfathers and father were Navy veterans and they talked about their time in the service, so figured I give it a shot, and that’s what I did.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>So that’s why you selected the Navy over the other branches?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Initially, I wanted to join the Army, but, um, my dad kind of talked me out of it and talked me into talking to a Navy recruiter, and, uh, once I talked to them, I got offered, uh the job I wanted, so I went with the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did your family feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, they were a hundred percent behind it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I left Georgia in November of ‘92, um, come down here to Orlando, and, uh, I was here for a couple of days, uh, classing up there waiting for all the recruits to get here for my class. Then we officially started boot camp on December 1<sup>st</sup> of ‘92.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were you trained to do for your career in the Navy? What—what were you trained to do for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At the time, I was just planning on, uh, doing my—I enlisted for six years, so my—my initial thought was just do the six years get the training and get out. See what was—well, what life had to offer me, but, uh, 21 years later, I’m still here so…</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>When did you begin your training at NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando, and how did this come about?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I graduated boot camp in February of ‘92.<a title="">[1]</a> Got two weeks leave and then started, uh, beginning of March—end of February of ‘92<a title="">[2]</a> at NTC Orlando. Uh, I went there, because of—that was the first phase of Electronics Technician School. Uh, the basic electronics was here in Orlando. Um, so I went through there and then from there I moved on to the [Naval Training Center] Great Lakes to finish my training.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did you know about the region, military, or—or any other information about Orlando, before arriving?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, actually, my—my grandparents—my dad’s parents—live in Winter Haven, Florida. So we’d been down here quite a bit vacationing and spending time with them. So I knew about the area—of course, the attractions and stuff, but as far as the military, um, I really didn’t know there was a boot camp here, until I joined the Navy. That’s—that’s where they told me I’d go.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I was there from Nov—at NTC? I was there from March until July of that summer, so several months.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your first impression of the base?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I loved the base. Uh, it was a training facility, so, uh it—it was nice. Um, act—actually, at the time, they were building some new schoolhouses, and, uh, I had several friends at Nuclear School there, so, uh, it was kind of like a college campus almost, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were your first days of the service like?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Confusing. Very confusing. Um, had no idea what was going on—on—all I knew was just they pointed this and told us to go somewhere, I just followed along and went with whatever they told me.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were you primary responsibilities at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, at NTC, I was, uh just a student primary. As a student, we would stand duty and have watch responsibilities, and, um, that’s pretty much it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did the watch responsibilities consist—contain or consist of?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, watch responsibilities, uh—you had watch every four days or one weekend a month. Uh, mainly just staying quarterdeck watch at the barracks, uh, making sure everybody who entered the barracks had proper ID, and a reason for being in there and you’d clean. Basically, cleaning duties, making sure the barracks stayed clean and the—all the showers, they stayed clean.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your overall impression of the recruits and their training at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At the beginning, you hated it, but at the end, um—I—I got a lot out of it. I thought it was a great experience. Um, you kind of grow up really fast, so the experience was—was for—for a young kid, to me, was a great—was great. I learned a lot—learned a lot about myself, you know? And the thing back then is there is no such word as “quit,” ‘cause they wouldn’t let you quit. They’d push, push, push, and when you thought you couldn’t go anymore, they’d push more. So it was a—it was a great experience for me. An eye-opening experience being, uh, fresh out into the world, right out of high school. So, um, I got a lot out of it, and I look fondly back on—on those memories.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What kind of social life existed amongst the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, first and foremost, respect, you know? Um, they demanded respect. Uh, it’s a little bit different nowadays, we’re more PC [politically correct] with the training, but back then, ultimately, you learned respect and you gave respect. Uh, that was the primary, and then, um, just the basics of being a sailor, what it was like to be a sailor, the routine of, um—of being a sailor and how to survive, uh, in the Navy [<em>sniffs</em>] [<em>clears throat].</em></p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How often was leave granted?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, in boot camp, it wasn’t. Um, when I was in training, if there was[sic] any special holidays, you got—you can request leave. Um, But everybody was offered two weeks leave, right out of boot camp, So I took advantage of that.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where did you go?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I went back home, and actually, I started a week with the, um, local recruiters, going back to my high school and talking about my experiences in boot camp and stuff, And doing that, they only charged me for one week.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did you feel about going back with the recruiters?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, it was a proud experience to walk back into your high school and see, uh, a lot of the students that were still there. Walk back in uniform and stuff, and—and knowing—even though, looking back, it wasn’t that big of accomplishment, but at the time, to me, you know, going through boot camp and doing that was a big accomplishment for me. It’s kind of, uh, rewarding to go back and have everyone see you in uniform.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How did you training experiences shape your relationship with other recruits in you class?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>It—it taught me, um—the biggest thing I learned is—is, uh—there were recruits from all over the country. So many different backgrounds and, uh—and I didn’t realize how diverse the military was and, uh—and how different, you know people’s upbringings was[sic] all over the country. So you learn to adapt to people and learn to, uh—to accept people for who they are, and—because—because you got to work together as a team, and ultimately, that was one of the things they taught us in boot camp—how to work together as a team. So regardless of your differences—your background—ethic, religion, whatever—When you are part of that team, it does not matter. You’re all one team. You have to work together. So that was an eye-opener too.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, during boot camp, there was a couple of people that I interacted with, Uh—several recruits. One—one—one—his name was Tom Johnson. Um, he was from, uh, Red Wing, Minnesota, and I don’t know why, but me[sic] and him just got along. So me[sic] and him would talk on a daily basis.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>While you were at NTC, was there anybody…</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, actually, uh, he was also, um, in the electronics technician program too, so me[sic] and him were actually in the same class, and we ended up being roommates, and, um, a third roommate joined us. His name was Troy Slewroo[sp], and I become close friends with him and, uh, he’s still serving in the Navy as well, so I talk to him on a regular basis too. Um, after about a year, after I graduated Electronics School, I kind of lost track of Tom, so I’m not sure what happened to him, but Troy I still talk to on a regular basis.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Who were your instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>At boot camp, I remember there was a Chief K, and, um BM1 Conner, and, uh, I’ll never forget them, ‘cause they made a huge impact on me, and actually, several years ago, I ran into—who’s now Master Chief Conner. He was a Command Master Chief at Naval Station Mayport, and I was on a ship out there. I was at training and I heard the voice, and I—<em>I know that voice.</em> So I walked around the corner, and, uh, there’s Master Chief Conner. I had a conversation with him and I was floored when he actually remembered who I was. So and, um, in—in A School— I don’t remember his name, but I know he was a retired chief—electronics technician—and, uh, he was my instructor. I don’t remember his name.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What were your instructors like?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, during boot camp, the two instructors—they were hardcore workout fanatics. So, um, we got in pretty good shape, ‘cause, uh, they were all about pushups, sit-ups, doing all that kind of stuff all the time. So, um, they—they were pretty strict, but they also kind of had a joking side. They—they would joke with you and, um, they let you know when it was time to be serious and time to joke.</p>
<p>Um, my instructor for A School, um—he was great. He was a very personable person. Um, very strict in the classroom, but very approachable, and, uh, he helped us out a lot. Willing to do whatever he could to make sure we understand what he was teaching. So…</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, the hardest thing was going through Electronics Technician School. It’s just so much information thrown—THROWN at you at one time. Um, and, uh, it was fast and furious, and—and coming out of high school, um, the—the pace was just so much quicker than I was ever use to, And a lot of information to try and retain and, uh, just trying to figure out how to study and—and how to be able to regurgitate that information during our labs and during our tests. So, eh, that was very challenging for me, and—and I struggled a little bit at first, and, um, eventually the instructor to help me along kind of—I went to him and he taught me actually how to study and the proper ways to—to study to help us out, ‘cause the pace was just so fast.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was your proudest moment?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, making it through basic electronics training. Um, I was proud when I graduated boot camp, but, uh, moving on with Electronics Technician School—that was the first hurdle you had to get through. Um, Otherwise, you could have went to—if you failed out, which we had a couple guys drop out, you got sent to the fleet to a ship—basically undesignated. So you were working with the boatswain, which is not the funniest job, and I joined to do electronics work, so once I got past that first hurdle of graduating electronics school, that was a big—big moment for me.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner <br /></strong>Tell me a story of a time at NTC you will never forget.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>There—there’s a couple, but the one that stands out the most is, um—was in boot camp, ‘cause, uh, the first time we really got, uh, a PT’d [physically trained] really hard, they called it “cycling.” And, um, we did what they call a “rain party,” where all the windows were shut, all the bunks were pushed back, and they just PT’d us until condensation formed on the ceiling. We were just going and going, and going, and, uh at the time, we were, uh, [inaudible] <em>This is the worst thing in the world, </em>but looking back on it, it was like, <em>Wow.</em> That was—that was—that was the big start of it all, you know? The—the defining moment of how—how far you were going to be pushed, and you just kept going, because, you know, you were scared to stop, ‘cause these guys were on you, you know? So, um, that’s something I’ll never forget. Looking back on it, I—I kind of chuckle. Uh, that’s kinda fun, because they do not do that kind of stuff anymore, but, uh, um—yeah. I—it’s kind of a fond memory now, even though it wasn’t fun at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>And that was when you first arrived or the first few months [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, no. In the first week or so of being there, once we finally classed up and got moved into our barracks and started to settle in.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you describe the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and its function?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, unfortunately, when I was there, we didn’t get to do much on the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, ‘cause, uh, they were doing some work on it. So, um, we just got the basic tour, got to do some, um, simple line handling drills on it, and that’s about all we go to do, but like I said, because they were doing work on it. So, um, I remember seeing it though and, um, thought it was kind of small for a ship, but, uh, um, I wish we got to the full training, but we just didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>And what class of ship was the <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>You know, I don’t recall. Um, if I had to guess, I’d probably say it’s a frigate. A small vessel. Kind of really don’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What was the official purpose of the Grinder and what it—it’s significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>The Grinder, um—that was the— main thing—that’s where we learned how to march, and—and how to follow, uh, calls and military protocol. Um, a lot of work was done on the Grinder. We—in the early mornings, we’d PT’d on the Grinder, and then, uh, we spent a lot of hours in the afternoon just doing marching drills, learning formations over and over and over, you know? Um, it was a big deal when you got your—your, um, dungaree uniform, and, uh, as soon as we got them, um, they took us back to the barracks, and dressed out in them, and went right out to the Grinder, and marched for hours, just to break in your boots. Which we, uh—actually, they were boondockers. They weren’t even boots. They were three-quarter inch, uh—three-quarter inch boondockers. So, um, a lot of blisters [<em>laughs</em>] and stuff, but—yeah. A lot of times, just learning drills and marching quite a bit.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you defi—how would you define the Grinder to other people? What would you—How would you—what did it mean to you?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Oh, um, gosh. At the time, it was a work area, you know? Um, at the time, it meant you—when they said, “Hit the Grinder.” You kind of like—<em>Aw, man. Here we go</em>, you know? You never knew what you were in for, um, whether we were going to PT at the time, even though we had a set scheduled for stuff, you know? If they said “Hey. We’re hitting the Grinder,” you kind of—you didn’t know what you were in for. You were kind of hesitant at the time, but, uh, that—that was the foundation for learning, like I said, the drills and protocol and all them calls, and, um—and on the Grinder, that’s where we become a team, ‘cause if one of us messes up in formation, we all paid the price, so we learned, you know, uh, about being a team.</p>
<p>So when—when I think of the Grinder, I think of, you know—that was the formation of teamwork there and that’s how—where we really learned, uh, to be one, and I guarantee you: by the time we did our graduation ceremony, um, we were all in perfect harmony and perfect step, because of we—we worked it all out there on that Grinder, and we were on that Grinder—we were on the Grinder every day, rain, shine, and, uh, I was here during the winter. It doesn’t matter what the weather was. We were out on that Grinder every day. So, um, a lot of hard work, but, um, a lot, uh—a lot of teamwork came out of that, you know?</p>
<p>So I guess I look back on the Grinder as a, you know—just a—probably a— significant place in Naval history, you know? Because if you think of all the sailors who walked on that Grinder—who learned the same lessons I did there, you know—it’s kind of sad that it’s gone now, you know? But it’s, you know—I never really thought about it until—‘til you asked me, so it—it’s—it’s a pretty—pretty significant, I would say, in my past.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What other training bases did you go to?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] when I left Orlando, um, I went out[?] to Great Lakes, Illinois, and, uh, did Phase 2 of Electronics School, which is advanced electronics, and then, I also went to, um, the [Naval] Training center out in San Diego[, California] for some follow-on schools before reporting to my first ship.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>How would you compare the other bases to NTC [Orlando]?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I always questioned why they closed Orlando and—and, uh, kept Great Lakes open, because, uh, to me, the base here was nicer. It was in, uh, better shape. Um, But, understandably, the—the history up in Great Lakes, You know—the historical buildings. There’s a lot of history up there, as well, but, um, I always favored this base. It was just, you know—and—and those of us who been through—went through Orlando, kind of take ownership of it, and, you know, um, I [inaudible]—when I first moved down here, uh, six months ago, when I got transferred, I drove over to Baldwin Park just to see what was still there, and, uh, I was kind of sad to see it all gone, you know? I didn’t recognize anything over there anymore.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What other areas of the base were particularly important to the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, on boot camp, um, of course your barracks were very important, because, uh, if you ventured outside of that, you know, it—you—that was kind of your safe zone when you were with your—your company commanders, um, that and, um, there was a USO [United Service Organization] right outside, and, um, it was a big deal, ‘cause I know we were there over Christmas, and, um, we got, uh—I think it’s like 45 minutes-an hour. They let us—we were allowed to go over to the USO and just kind of let our hair down for a little while, and, uh, the USO would have some snacks and stuff for us, and, uh, that was always a—a—a great place, you know? I remember going over there and just loving it, and when, uh, we graduated boot camp, everybody migrated over to the USO and that’s where you met your families and stuff.</p>
<p>Um, on the NTC side, I remember there was a little club that had the ar—ar—arcade games, and jukeboxes, and pool. Um, that was—that’s kind of the place we all congregated either after school or on the weekends, um, and there was a McDonald’s. I remember the McDonald’s. Um, there was a volleyball court right across from it, um, in front of some barracks. So usually after school, we—we’d run over get changed and go to the volleyball court, and, uh, you know, spend the majority of the afternoon there, and the, uh, go for McDonald’s, grab something, and go back to barracks and study for the night, and be ready to go the next day.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is that McDonald’s still there or no?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, I don’t think so. Not that I remember.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did it feel like to graduate and finally put the hat on?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Oh, the white hat? Yeah. Uh, that was a big moment. Um, you strive, and, uh, I remember wearing, you know, the other cap—your—your stocking cap all the time, and you’re looking[?] and you’re like, <em>Aw, I can’t wait until I get the white hat. Can’t wait to get</em>—you know, ‘cause to use that was the signal of a sailor, and once you got the white hat, you know, you knew you were almost there. Um, so that was a big goal that everybody was striving for, was to get the white hat, and then once you got it, you kind of, you know—you kinda strutted around, you know, ‘cause you saw all the other companies that didn’t have theirs yet. So you felt a little better than everyone else. So it was—it was a good feeling.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What did you do for the Navy after you completed your training?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, when I finished, um, I reported to my first ship the USS <em>John A. Moore</em>. Um, I was on there for, uh, three years. Um, deployed a couple times with them. Um, I got to do some work on the USS <em>Wadsworth</em>—help out some fellow ETs [Electronic Technicians] for some time.</p>
<p>After that, I—I transferred to the White House Communications Agency [WHCA]. I was fortunate to get picked for that, and, um, I was—I served under President [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton—his last three years, and, uh, Got to setup and maintain all the communications equipment for the President and Secret Service, and, uh, one—one of my primary jobs was to work in the limo shop, so I got to install maintain the presidential limousine, the communications equipment.</p>
<p>From there, I went to Fleet Combat Training Center in, uh, Dam Neck, Virginia, and, uh—and worked on radar systems there. Um, and I—I was fortunate enough to make chief while I was there, and, um, after graduating there I went to the USS <em>Simpson</em>—was on the <em>Simpson</em> out of Mayport, Florida, for, uh—for three and a half years. When left the USS <em>Simpson</em>—when I deployed on to a NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] cruiser, during the [Global] War on Terrorism,<a title="">[3]</a> with the <em>Simpson</em> and then, um, from there, I went to the, uh, Naval Expeditionary Combat Command. I—I helped stand that up. It was a small staff when I got there. Probably 30-40 people, and, uh, we built up the expeditionary force and when I left we were a staff of 300, uh, plus sailors, and, um, from there, um, I went to Des Moines, Iowa, of all places, with the Navy. Um, I was a Senior Enlisted Advisor for the Navy Operations Force Center out in Des Moines, Iowa. While I was out there, I, um—I made Senior Chief at NACC, and when I was out there, um, I went to the Navy Senior Enlisted Academy and got, uh—and applied and got selected for a Command Senior Chief program, and so, uh, I was at a, uh—a Command Master Chief conference and my [inaudible] was there, and, uh, I got to talking to him, and—and, uh he told me that the, uh—that the Navy Operations Support Center here in Orlando had just, uh, received a Command Senior Chief billet[?], and, uh, asked me if I was interested in coming down here. So, uh, Aft—I thought about it, and I was like, <em>You know, I’m getting to the point where I might want to retire. </em>I figured that would be a great place to retire. So I started my career there and—and I thought it would be neat. If I do retire here, to end it here. So this is where I’m at now.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Of all your previous deployments and stations, which one to you is—was the most influential and significant? Which one means the most to you?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, probably the USS <em>Simpson</em>. Um, that was my first, um, real command. I was a new chief when I got there, and, um, I learned so much on that ship. I had some great people. I had a few people above me that I didn’t think was[sic] great, but still, um, I—I learned a lot of lessons there on how to treat people, on how not to, um, uh, what it takes to run a division on a ship, um, to be that leading chief.</p>
<p>Um, a lot of that lessons learned on that stuff—on that ship, uh—experiences I—I couldn’t have gotten anywhere else, except for being at sea, you know? So, um, I’m very grateful that I, uh, chose to enter[?], and, um—and the lessons learned—you know—good and bad—that—that was just the biggest learning curve for me—was that 3 years, and, um, I was very fortunate to have a couple, um, of chiefs and senior chiefs I still talk to, to this day, that kind of helped mentor me. From, you know, being a new chief, and I feel when I left that command, I was a seasoned chief, and, um, you know, a lot of great, great chiefs helped me along, and—and we had some good officers that really, you know, helped me learn even more. I kind of thought I knew a lot, and then when I got there, I thought I was in over my head, but, um, it was just such a great experience and a learning experience [inaudible]. I’ll—I’ll look fondly on that command.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Where you ever in an active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, active warzone? No. Um, we did do, um, boardings, um, outside in the Mediterranean [Sea]. Um, the ships going to and from the Gulf. [inaudible] there’s, um—we did boardings—non-compliance boardings—but I was never in an active warzone though.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Could you talk about the boardings, or no?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, some—some of the boardings, um, [inaudible]—some of them—we did the same thing on—on, uh, my first ship, down off the coast of South America, as well. It’s just, uh, you know, um, looking for contraband. Uh, we go, uh, trying to make contact with the ships. If—if they’re will to stop, great, and let us board, great. If not, for the non-compliance ones, we kind of forced them to stop, and, um—boarding, and I was fortunate to be part of a boarding team on a couple of those, and, uh, whether they are compliant or not, boarding a ship is always nerve-racking, ‘cause you don’t know what to expect, and Of course, you’re looking for contraband and—and, um—and, uh, going through the ship is always kind of nerve-racking, ‘cause you, you know—you don’t know what—there’s so many places to hide on a ship, and, um—so it—it was—it was interesting, to say the least. Um, nerve-racking, but, um, fortunate enough, um, uh—the few, um, kind of situations that happened, I wasn’t involved in those. So I was—I was extremely fortunate, you know? So that’s about that. Nowadays, they don’t do that.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>You mentioned you kept in touch with one of your buddies from the NTC.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is there anybody else you kept in contact with from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I got a couple mentors. Uh, two—two of them have retired from the Navy, but I still keep in contact with them. I touch bases with them, um, if I got a situation I am in and I’m not sure how to handle that, or what to do. Or, uh, if I make a decision on what I’m going to do, I usually call them and run it by them. I—I kind of get their take, um,and—and I’ve made a couple of real good friends along the way that—that I keep in touch with. So I would say—and my dad gave me this advice when I joined the Navy—He told me, um, you know, “Mot everybody’s your friend. You’re going to make a lot of acquaintances, but your—your friends, you’ll keep in touch with.” And so, um, I would say, out of all the sailors I served with, probably about 4 or 5 I keep in touch with.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Well, the, you know—our core values are honor, courage, and commitment, and, um, with honor, it’s just not, you know—I feel honored to wear the uniform, but, uh, it’s—it’s an honor to represent not only the United States, but all those sailors that have served before me, and, uh, especially those chiefs who, uh, have made the Navy strong. Because, you know the saying is “The chiefs are the backbone of the Navy.” And my ultimate goal in the Navy was to make chief, once I decided to make it a career, and obtaining that goal and being a part of the mess is, you know, the big honor, and I just want to live up to the standards that, you know, all the sailors before me have set, you know?</p>
<p>Um, and another characteristic is—is courage, and courage doesn’t mean you’re not scared, you know? Um, being courageous is when you’re unsure, maybe a little scared, but you do—you do the job anyway, and—and being courageous is, you know, sometimes making an unpopular decision, you know to, uh—with some of my junior personnel, you know, I know the decision is not going to be popular—not going to like it, but you gotta make it and—and—and be committed to the—to the decision, and, you know, [inaudible] that goes along with commitment, you know? Um, Not only being the decision-maker, but as somebody making the decision, whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not.</p>
<p>Um, we have this saying in the mess, you know: “Acceptance doesn’t mean agreement.” You don’t have to agree with it, but you’re committed. That’s the way we’re going, so let’s go and you drive your sailors to—to follow along. So, um, the values that the Navy hold dear—honor, courage, and commitment—that’s[sic] the ones I take on and try to live up to, and I’ll tell you this: not only in my professional life, but in my personal life as well. ‘cause I—I’m always mindful that my actions out in the civilian world, um, Can affect my professional world, as well, and I—I don’t want to do anything that would discredit, you know, the Navy, as well as discredit my family.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>So overall, what would you say is the most valuable lesson you learned from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Wow. Um, you—it’s—it’s—I’ve changed so much in my way of thinking, in the Navy. Um, I think the most valuable lesson is being, uh, tolerant of, uh, different points of view, different, um, people, you know? Um, it’s okay to have your own opinion and to state your opinion and have your belief, as long as you’re willing to accept the fact that there’s[sic] people out there that’s[sic] gonna disagree with you and have a different point of view, and, um, that’s one thing [inaudible], uh—uh, where I grew up, um, I kinda had a mindset of a way things should be and my beliefs, but, um, sitting here 21 years later, I’m a totally different person. I think I’m more open and more, uh, subjective to—other people’s, um, either backgrounds or, you know, ways of life, and, you know, the way I look at it—I, you know—we’re all people. We all have a right to our own opinion, our own way of life, so as long as it doesn’t affect me directly, you know, I haven’t put much thought into it.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>You said when you returned back to Orlando, you didn’t recognize the base, so—or the area at all. So how would you say the NTC base or the Central Florida region changed since you left?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, from what I remember, um, there—there’s a few landmarks that are here that I remember going to, um, around the base. Church Street Station is still there. Um, there’s a couple of restaurants—still there, but the landscape has changed, you know, to being primarily housing now, and, um, I think the demographics of the population has changed too. Um, I think there’s more of a Hispanic culture here than I remember.</p>
<p>Um, so, um—and this is the—since boot camp, you know, this is—the last six months is the first time I’ve really been here—living here, you know, not just kind of visiting to visit the theme parks and stuff like that. That’s totally different than actually being—excuse me—being a resident here. So, um, I think the demographics has[sic] changed and, you know, that whole area around Lake Baldwin now, you know, just seems to me to be all housing and stuff now, and, uh, there—there was a club—I think it was called Manatees—outside the gate there—that I was looking for to see if to see if it was still there, and, uh, it might be there, but I couldn’t remember my way around, because I didn’t recognize the area. Um, I remember that and, uh, there was a hotel in the area we use to stay at on the weekends, just to get away. It was the Colonial Plaza. I don’t know if it is there or not. Uh, I’ve [inaudible] —I’ve talked to my wife. I was like, you know, “I want to take some time and drive around see if we can find it,” or, you know—so—But, uh, yeah. It’s totally changed.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What do you think the lasting legacy of the NTC Orlando—of is—of the NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>I would hope people remembered it was here, you know? And, um, I know the [Central Florida] Navy League has worked hard, uh, to get the—the Lone Sailor [Memorial Project] statue out in Baldwin Park, which, um, that would be a good reminder. Even talking with some of the younger sailors nowadays, uh, when I told them, “Hey. I went to boot camp in Orlando,” they didn’t even know, you know, that Orlando even existed as—as a RTC [Recruit Training Center] or that we had a base down here, Other than where we’re at now. Um, so I—I just hope people remember, you know, that we were here—that we were a big footprint here, at one time, and, uh, I think that Lone Sailor statue would be a lasting memorial, At least to all the sailors, you know, that[sic] served here, and at least we get some kind of recognition that we were here and did something here. So, um, sad that it’s gone, but it is what it is.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>What do you—what do you think former Navy personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit the site?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Um, I think just having a statue that, you know—the Lone Sailor Statue just represents a—a lot to sailors, and, uh, seeing that there would be a, you know—hopefully, just a good reminder, uh, of the things that went on, you know, at RTC and NTC, and, uh,it’s funny when—when I got asked to do this—and looking through my book and thinking about, you know, um—you remember all the good times, you know? The bad times—you just forget—kinda forget them, unless somebody brings something up, but, uh, you remember the good times, and hopefully, having a memorial there, you know, when—when the sailors come back to visit and they see that, it will bring back the good memories of—of that, and the positives that they experienced there.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Before we finish I want you to fill in the—fil in the blank for me.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>NTC Orlando means what to me.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>[<em>sighs</em>] I tell you: NTC Orlando means a new beginning for me. Um, because I was there at, uh, RTC and NTC, where I got the first taste of the world and experience the world on my own, not in a family environment or setting, and, uh, I had to rely upon myself, you know, to get things done or to be more responsible. Um, I—I had to answer to a higher authority for my actions. So it was a total new beginning for me, and, um, looking back, I think I made the right choice for myself, ‘cause I couldn’t, um—I couldn’t imagine myself doing anything else, and—and, um—and having that experience there and getting to experience life, uh, on my own being, able to make my own decisions and do things, you know, um—that’s, uh—that’s where it all started for me. Right there.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Is there anything I haven’t asked you about or anything else you would like to talk about, sir?</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>You know, I—I can’t think of anything. Um, not at the moment. No.</p>
<p><strong>Joyner<br /></strong>Thank you, Senior Chief Etchison, for taking your time to conduct this interview for us. We appreciate your service and we look forward to—hopefully to this going forward to become part of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.</p>
<p><strong>Etchison<br /></strong>Uh, thank you for—for inviting me, and, uh, service is a pleasure. So it’s my pleasure to serve—serve the United States and to be able to serve its great people. So, um, I appreciate your “thank you,” but it—it’s—it’s a pleasure and it’s an honor to be able to do this. So, um, thank you for inviting me.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: 1993.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: 1993.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Global War on Terror (GWOT).</p>
</div>
</div>
advanced training
Anderson, Indiana
Baldwin Park
basic training
Bill Clinton
Blythe, William Jefferson III
boot camp
boot camps
Central Florida Navy League
Chad Eric Joyner
Chad Etchison
Colonial Plaza
Command Master Chief
Command Senior Chief
Community Veterans History Project
Conner
contraband
CVHP
cycling
Dam Neck, Virginia
Des Moines, Iowa
Electronics Technician School
electronics technicians
enlistment
ET
Fleet Combat Training Center
Global War on Terror
graduation
GWOT
Jacksonville
Joint Service Commendation Medal
Jonesboro, Georgia
Lake Baldwin
Lana Etchison
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Manatees
marching
Mark Etchison
Mayport
McDonald's
memorials
military training
NACC
Naval Expeditionary Combat Command Operations Force Center
Naval Station Mayport
Naval Training Center Orlando
Naval Training Center San Diego
Navy Achievement Medal
Navy Commendation Medal
Navy League
Navy Operational Support Center
Navy Operations Force Center
Navy Senior Enlisted Academy
NECC
NOSC
NS Mayport
NTC Orlando
NTC San Diego
Operation Active Endeavor
orlando
Presidential Service Badge
rain parties
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
RTC Orlando
sailors
San Diego, California
Secret Service
Senior Chief
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Senior Enlisted Advisor
The Grinder
Tim Slewroo
Tom Johnson
U.S. Navy
U.S. Secret Service
United Service Organization
USO
USS Blue Jacket
USS John A. Moore
USS Simpson
USS Wadsworth
USSS
veterans
volleyball
WHCA
White House Communications Agency
William Jefferson Blythe III
William Jefferson Clinton
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9758a30bbef0211d459a0125540b3451.pdf
c60e6d25aaa04eb52789bf35b14b4d1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Richard Tobias Sloane
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sloane
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Description
An oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane (b. 1934), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1964 to 1969, during the Vietnam War. Sloane was born in Queens, New York City, New York, on March 4, 1934. In August of 1964, he was commissioned into the Navy. Sloane served in Vietnam from September of 1967 to September of 1968. He also served on the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, USS <em>Santa Barbara</em> in River Section 35, the USS <em>Garcia</em>, the USS <em>Wisconsin</em>, and the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>. Sloane achieved the rank of Captain and earned a Purple Heart, Bronze Star with V Device, Legion of Merit, Combat Action Award, and Navy E Ribbon.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Carli Van Zandt on March 5, 2014. Interview topics include Sloane's background, joining the Navy, the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, Officer Candidate School (OCS), the Vietnam War, Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando, the Grinder, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, airbases in Central Florida, the simulation industry, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:02:52 Background<br />0:01:58 Enlistment and USS <em>Rockbridge</em><br />0:05:44 Officer Candidate School<br />0:08:20 Graduation<br />0:09:53 Repair Division Officer<br />0:11:22 Vietnam War<br />0:18:09 Other assignments<br />0:21:52 Wife and children<br />0:24:18 Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:27:11 Daily life and training at NTC Orlando<br />0:32:31 Advanced training at NTC Orlando<br />0:33:51 Central Florida airbases<br />0:35:39 Simulation industry<br />0:37:01 Hardest aspect, proudest moment, and memories from NTC Orlando<br />0:42:51 Leaving the Navy and keeping in touch with friends<br />0:45:22 Lessons learned, the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Abstract
Oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane. Interview conducted by Carli Van Zandt at the Education Building, Room 123, of the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on March 5, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
22-page digital transcript of original 50-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Queens, New York City, New York
Officer Candidate School, Newport, Rhode Island
Mekong Delta, Vietnam
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Sloane, Richard Tobias
Van Zandt, Carli
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-05
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-05
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
432 MB
230 KB
Medium
50-minute and 17-second DVD aduio/video recording
22-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Carli Van Zandt and Richard Tobias Sloane.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you for coming today. I’m so glad that you made it.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Today is March 5<sup>th</sup>[, 2014] and I’m interviewing Mr. Richard Tobias Sloane, and he served in the United States Navy. Uh, we are doing this history project for the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]. My name is [Carolyn] Carli Van Zandt, uh, and my cameraperson is Fernando Maldonado. We are interviewing Mr. Sloane as part of, uh, the Community Veteran History Project and Loan Sailor Memorial Project. Uh, recording here today, in the Education Building, Room 123—the conference room—in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Sloane, will you please begin by telling us a little bit about, uh, what branch of service you were in and your rank, uh, which you retired at?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I was in the United States Navy. I retired as a Captain in [20]06 in the United States Navy. Started my service in 1964 at the Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Thank you. Uh, I’m going to get a little background information here. Can you tell us when you were born? Where you was born?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I was born on March the 4<sup>th</sup>, 1943. Yesterday was my birthday, so this is very appropriate. I was born in, uh, the Borough of Queens, New York City, in the State of New York.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My father was a, uh—a wholesale merchant in dry goods in New York, on the lower eastside of Manhattan. My mother was a homemaker, and later in her life, she was in retail, uh, store sales in New York—in Long Island, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, do you have brothers, sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I have two older brothers. Uh, my oldest brother was retired Navy Captain also. He attended the United States Naval Academy—Class of 1957, and, uh, the middle brother, um, attended Harvard University, and Harvard, uh, Business School.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Uh, would you tell me a little about how, uh, your family life may have impacted your decision to, uh, enter the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, there was no doubt in my mind that my oldest brother, who’s about seven years, uh, my senior, if you will, uh, attended the Naval Academy when I was young, uh, junior high school, uh, person, and watching him go through that academy for four years and then his, uh—the beginning of his military service definitely had an impact my decision to join the Navy. When I completed my studies at Boston University—and in 1964, the—the draft was still in effect—and the choices were to continue my education, at the time, or to be drafted, or to sign up for the service, uh, of my choice, and at the time, I picked that choice to be in the United States Navy. I didn’t realize, at the time, it would be a career choice, uh, but I enjoyed my early years in the service, such that I decided to stick around.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. So tell me more about, um, what impacted your decision to stick around.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I had a great first assignment. I came out of college at about 22 years old, uh—maybe even younger, at the time, and, uh, I was assigned to a ship called the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>—hull number APA-228, and that was a, uh—an amphibious troupe transport from the World War II era. Uh, the mission of the ship was to embark Marines—about 800 Marines—and associated cargo, and land on the shore in amphibious landings, and, uh, the, uh, manning of that ship—the Ward Room—if you will, the “Officer Car”—was made up with a lot of, uh, old timers, uh—warrants, mustangs as department heads. People who had been former enlisted[?], came up in the ranks, and they were sort of like—I don’t want to classify them as grandfatherly types—but they were very, uh, mature in there service, and, uh, the Commanding Officers of the ship when I was there, under which I had three Commanding Officers, were also senior Navy Captains who were on their way to major command and, uh, come[sic] out of aviation, and were going to head to larger ships, if you will. So again, they were very self-confident individuals, very accomplished people, and the younger officers, like myself, were all fresh, wet-behind-the-ears college kids, and so it was a very, very, um, engaging environment, um, a very learning environment, while, obviously, there’s a lot of pressure you to anything you do in that Navy environment.</p>
<p>It was such that you—you felt that you was learning, you felt like you were being mentored, uh, and I came away from that tour, uh, very, very, uh, personally fulfilled and—and feeling good about what I was doing. The sense of responsibility, that you got, which has always been, uh, something the Navy has played on for young beginners—that we’re going to give you, uh, tremendous responsibility that your peers, who were out working at Macy’s or selling insurance aren’t going to experience for a long, long time, and I found that to be true, because, uh, they give you things to do, and say, “Here’s a job. Go do it.” And they had enough faith in you to let you do it—to watch you close enough, so they wouldn’t let you mess up too bad. So it was a very, very good experience, as I look back on it over the years. I think that was principally what made me feel comfortable about staying in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>You mentioned that you got this, uh, officer start before you did this first duty assignment through, um, Officer Candidate School, or OCS?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Correct.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Could you tell me a little bit about, um, what that experience is like?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, talk about the shock of your life. You come out of a university, a—very, uh, loving home, uh, environment, as I grew up. Um, so you leave the university. Again, you’ve had a sense of what service life might be like, because of my brother’s experience, but obviously, you really don’t know exactly what you’re getting into, and I remember, at the time, there was only a ferry that crossed from the main land over to Newport, [inaudible] Island, unless you wanted to go all the way up and around, by Fall River[, Massachusetts] and Providence[, Rhode Island]. Today, they have a bridge, but I remember on that ferry, as I reported for duty to go to OCS, and looking out over the water and said, what <em>have I done? </em>[<em>laughs</em>]. That sort of thing, because I didn’t know what I was headed for, but it was also a very, uh, broadening and lightening experience, because most of my childhood and my college experience, for the most part, was very, um—I forget what the right word is—but very, uh contained.</p>
<p>Uh, it wasn’t broadening. It was broadening educationally and, again, growing up in New York, you have a broadened sense of what life could be like, but I had never, uh, been in an environment with people from the South, people from the West, people from all sorts of cultures, uh—that sort of thing, and now you’re thrown into a barracks environment, uh, which is not quite the same as a college dormitory or fraternity house. Um, you’re—you’re being asked to do things in a very regimented way, uh, being held very, very responsible and accountable for the most minute, uh, daily life, uh, activities, and so while it wasn’t a shock, uh, it was certainly different. and it is a crash course, so your—things that, uh, people in NROTC [Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps] programs or Academy programs are getting years and years of time to, uh, uh acculture[sic] to and learn. You’re getting a crash course. It’s not that—it wasn’t that challenging or difficult, but you certainly had pay attention, and again, aside from the academics, the military side, um—it was just an enlightening experience. Mostly, in—in the exposure to people of different cultures, uh, uh, than ever before.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Graduation day.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Wow. You know, the funny thing was, uh, I can’t remember exactly—the whole program was about four months, and, uh, at about maybe three weeks before you graduate, uh, you get your orders, and the way you get your orders is, uh, you’re in a company of 30 men—maybe your class had a couple hundred in it, but, um—so you’re in a company of 30 men, and you get a—a message, if you will, to report to the barracks chief or the company chief at the company headquarters, and he’s going to tell you where you’re going, and I’ll never forget, he—he said—he said “Sloane, you’re going to the USS <em>Rockbridge</em>, APA228.” and I said, “Chief, what’s that?” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>I had no idea, because with all that indoctrination, I don’t think we ever got down into the grass as to ship types, you know? it was mostly here’s how you, uh, get from point A to point B, here’s how you do this, a lot of PT [physical training], uh, this, that, and the other thing, a lot of naval history. Uh, but I—I remember to this day, he told me where I was going, I had no idea what kind of ship it was or anything of that nature. So, uh, that was a little before graduation, but graduation day, you’re filled with pride, you have your ensign stripe[?], uh, and your off on a real, real adventure, you know? You’re glad to be leaving that environment, but you’re full of apprehension, because now, you’re going to be really entering the workforce, sort of to speak.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br />‘</strong>Kay. So you’re trained as a—a new ensign. What was your actual job as a new ensign?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, my first job, again, was in the engineering department, and I was the [Repair] Division Officer for the repair division. The Division Officer—you’re in charge of a group of enlisted men and—with a specific function—and their job was metalsmith and woodworking, if you will, on this ship. So, um, they were doing all that type of work. It was a small group. Uh, I was sort of fortunate and respected, instead of being put immediately in charge of a large division, which might’ve been at least 30 men or 40 men. It was small, compact.</p>
<p>Again, a lot of good leadership, you know? It’s always the Chief Petty Officer in the Navy who really knows what’s going on and runs the Navy. and especially when you’re brand new, I mean, you—even with what little book-learning you got, you have not a great idea on the technical aspects of what the people are doing, you’re worried about all the different aspects of being able to stand the watch, drive a ship, um, do your daily duties, oversee the people who are working for you—or working with you, uh,—that sort of thing, and again, it was a lot of—I don’t want to use the word “old timers”—but Senior Chief Petty Officers, uh, who had a lot of experience and confidence in their work, um, middle-grade Petty Officers. It was a good bunch. It was the right place for me to go for a start, because I had a lot of support from below.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, your early assignments—it sounds like you had a lot of on-the-job training, do you think it is because it was the Vietnam [War] era?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane <br /></strong>Well, uh, if you’re talking about the first ship, absolutely, you know? I mean, uh, at the time, a lot of people were going over to Vietnam. Uh, my second tour duty was in Vietnam, and by the time I have spent about two and a half years on that ship, I had, uh, changed jobs on the ship. I was, uh, made gunnery officer on that ship, which was—gave me an opportunity to learn another aspect of, uh, ship ward responsibility and duties, and so again, when I, uh, finished up that tour in about two in a half years, uh, I was very confident. I had, uh, been promoted one grade from ensign to Lieutenant Junior grade. Very proud, and, uh, left that ship with a great deal of confidence, I think.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Great. Um, can you tell me a little about your Vietnam experience?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>As much as you can.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, uh, absolutely. Um, Funny thing is, um: I—I mentioned earlier that I worked with these great people, you know? Uh, uh, as many warrants and LDOs [limited duty officers] who had maturity, a lot of experience, um, and how I got to Vietnam, I always thought was an interesting story. The Navy Bureau of Naval Personnel put out a newsletter about every month that they—a hard copy paper newsletter, and they went to every ship, and it—it really talked about what assignments were available to different people and different grade, what was happening in the personnel management area, um, and they came out with an article that said they were looking for Lieutenants Junior grade to be the Commanding Officers of LSTs, uh— “Landing Ship Tanks” —uh, to serve as mother ships for river patrol boats in Vietnam. So these LSTS would be at the mouths of the river, they would be the mother ship for 10 or 20 small river patrol boats, and they wanted Lieutenant JGs [Junior Grade] to be, uh, XOs. They wanted them to be XOs—Executive Officers, and I read that article, and, uh, my boss, at the time, was a Lieutenant, uh—LDO—an “old salt,” who I greatly admired, and he read that article. They were looking for Lieutenants to be Commanding Officers—Lieutenant JGs was to XOs to these LSTs, and he reads this article, and he says—he says, “Boy, I want to be a CO of a, LST.” And he said, “Rich, come be my XO.” You know, “We’ll go together.” I’ll—he’ll be the CO and I’ll be the XO of this LST.</p>
<p>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] to go from being a Division Officer to an Executive Officer is highly unusual. Uh, but here is an opportunity, because it fit the mold, uh, of what they were looking for in Vietnam. I said, “Absolutely.” and I immediately wrote my detailer—the guy in Washington[, D.C.] who made these assignments—and—and, uh, I said, “I want to go be an XO on an LST, just like you wrote you needed, uh—uh, JGs to be XOs on LST. I want that job.” He wrote back—[<em>clears throat</em>] he said—corresponded back, “You know, you’re a little too junior,” because you’re in the JG billet for a number of years, uh—JG rank. Said, “You’re a little too junior, but we have lots of other jobs available for ya in Vietnam.” I said, “Okay.” I said, “But don’t give me a desk job. I want a job where the action is.” Next thing you know, I had a letters to a river patrol section that drove little plastic boats on the rivers of the Mekong Delta. So that’s how I got there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Wow.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, I know, and then [<em>laughs</em>]—and then, my boss—I don’t think he ever got the job of CO. He did—he may have gotten an LST, but I don’t know that he had one off of Vietnam. Um, I spent a year. The tour that you got was a year. It was a small outfit—maybe a hundred people, if that. Uh, Most of them were assigned to run the boats, and the others were assigned as maintenance people. Uh, there was[sic], uh, two Lieutenants and three Lieutenants Junior grade, who made the officer structure. Then you had a number of Chief Petty Officers, and a host of, UH, other enlisted personnel, who manned the boats, and we spent a year patrolling the rivers of Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What impact do you think this experience had on you?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, it had a tremendous impact. Um, you know, you sad[sic] in the sense that you were at war. You were certainly, uh, aware of that. Um, I think it was Winston [Leonard Spencer- ]Churchill who said something like, “There is nothing more exhilarating than being shot at and missed.”<a title="">[1]</a> Uh, and I had that experience. Um, uh, we’ve lost a number of people from our section to combat, while I was there, and I respect—I consider myself fortunate that I—that I, uh, um, didn’t have a harrowing[?] experience that—that cost me more than it did, so to speak. Um, uh, it was interesting to be in country, in—in that environment—to meet people of Vietnam, um, in many different, uh, ways, if you will. Um, and that’s about it.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Do you think, um, your time through these, uh—the last two assignments that you just described help shape your leadership style?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, I think to some degree. That’s hard to say, um, how you developed, what—what it was that caused you to develop your leadership. I think more, uh—I don’t know. I only speak for myself, but I think more it was my upbringing than anything else. There’s all sorts of leaders—different people. Some lead in fear, some lead in—in different manners, and I just think it was the way that I was brought up that really, uh, set the foundation for my leadership style. I think a lot of your style is not so much developed in those early years, but further as you go along, you get more responsibility. Certainly there was a lot of responsibility from day one at different levels, and—and very significant responsibility, but my impression was: the further along you got, the more leadership experience you had. You had the opportunity to observe other leaders, you know? The—the common phrase, as well, eh, you know; “I’m not going to do it like he did it when I grow up.” That sort of thing. So, uh, how you developed it is—is a, in my opinion—for me, at least, is a combination of a lot of things: my personal upbringing, the experiences that I had as you climb that ladder can really shape.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you. What other, um, duty assignments did you take after your tour in Vietnam and prior to coming to NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. I came back from Vietnam and I was, uh, selected to go what then called the “Navy Destroyers School,”<a title="">[2]</a> which was really a course to prepare you to be a department head on a destroyer-type, um, ship. Um, that was a six-month course in Newport, Rhode Island. I met my wife there, during that time period. I courted her, eh, in—in those years—that time frame. Um, Went to USS <em>Garcia</em> DE-1040. Home-ported out of Newport, Rhode Island, as the Weapons [Systems] Officer.</p>
<p>Um, from there, uh, I have to think back. I went to the USS—oh, excuse me. From there, I went to, uh, instructor duty at what was then the beginning of the Navy Surface Warfare Officers School and served as an instructor to ensigns, who were coming from their commissioning source before they were going to surface ships, and, uh, that was about three-year tour in Newport, and then I went to USS <em>Milwaukee</em> AOR-2—I think it was. Homeport in Norfolk, Virginia, a multiproduct ship, uh, stationed out of Norfolk, Virginia. Great tour of duty, great, uh, shipmates there. Again, uh, a tremendous learning experience as a department head for the deck department. Uh, A lot of responsibility, a lot of work there. From <em>Milwaukee</em>, we went to shore duty in Millington, Tennessee—a little bit north of Memphis, where the Navy had its, uh, training headquarters, and, uh, I served on, uh, the staff of, uh, Naval Education and Training [Command] —technical training—in Memphis—Millington.</p>
<p>Uh, from there, after a short one year tour, um, I went to Hawaii, uh, to be, uh, Executive Officer on the USS <em>Hassayampa</em>, an oiler in, uh, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Another great tour. Uh, I think the, uh, thing that made my career so gratifying was the great shipmates and the leaders that I worked with over the years on these ships. From Hawaii, came back to Norfolk and served on the staff of, uh, Commander Carrier Group 8. Went to sea on aircraft carriers as a Surface Warfare Advisor, if you will—surface op[eration]s officer. Completed that tour, working for a couple of flag officers, and from there, let’s see. Where’d we go? [U.S.] Naval War College, I believe. Tour[?] in Newport, Rhode Island, at the Naval War College. A very int—interesting time, and then went to, um, command the USS <em>Santa Barbara</em>, uh, AE-28, out of Charleston, South Carolina. Was on board there for about two in half years, in command of the <em>Santa Barbara</em>. Went from there to, uh, the Executive Officer of Service Schools[sic] Command. [Naval Station] Great Lakes—very large training activity, uh, up in Great Lakes, Illinois, just north of Chicago[, Illinois], and from there, I came to Orlando, Florida, in command of the Service School Command Activity here at the Naval Training Center Orlando. So it was all in route, but we got there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>That’s quite a list</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, I’ll say.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. This one’s about your wife. You ready for this one?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I’m sorry? Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>This one’s about your wife. They say in the military, you great two for one. How did you do with the family, the military, and the traveling? How did she deal[?] with that?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, we were very fortunate. I’ve always felt that way. Um, my wife was ready, willing, and able for the adventure. She was a Navy nurse actually, when I met her when she was in college, and she was, uh, attending on a—a little bit of a scholarship at the end of her college tour, where, in exchange for tuition assistance, she went in the Navy as a Navy nurse, and in those days, if you became pregnant, they mustered you out, and so she was in for a little over a year in an half, until she became pregnant without first child, and had to muster out. So she had a little taste of the Navy, besides from the fact of growing up—not going up—but going to school in Newport, Rhode Island, as she did, which is where I met her, uh, she was exposed to all the Navy activity that went on in Newport, Rhode Island, at the time.</p>
<p>Um, so we enjoyed the Navy. Nobody enjoys leaving your family for six months at a time and Nowadays, sailors are leaving there families for even longer, but, uh, typical six-month deployment then was not something you looked forward to from a family standpoint-of-view, but she—she understood that and, uh, was a great Navy wife. You know, they say, uh, a Navy wife’s the toughest job in the Navy, and I believe it 110 percent, and our children, uh, my wife, and I always—we moved around a lot, you know? And describing where I went, it was here, there. We came back a couple times, but it was never back to back tours in the same town, and unlike some, who said, “Oh, I don’t want to leave Norfolk,” or “I gotta stay in San Diego[, California].” We were always up for that adventure, and after a year or two went by, the kids were always saying, “Where are we going next?” That sort of thing. Got a little tougher when they got to the junior high/high school age, but up ‘til then, they were always ready, willing, and able to—“Let’s find a new place to go.” And, uh, that was pretty good. I’d always come home, after having spoken with the detailer, getting the word on where we were going. Uh, I’d call home and say, “Honey, Are you sitting down?” And she knew that was the signal [<em>laughs</em>] that we were going somewhere. Yep.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Good. Um, well, what did you know about the region of Orlando and the military here?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I’m sorry.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What did you know about the region of Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I didn’t know anything about it expect that they had a mirror of activity of Great Lakes on a smaller scale. Uh, Navy training activity, smaller in numbers, but the mission was basically the same, and I lobbied to get that job of Commanding Officer. I say lobbied. You know, I—you talked to your detailer and say “Hey. I hear there’s a job opening in Orlando. Uh, it seems to fit. I’m training in education subspecialist. I’ve done the tour as Executive Officer here. Um, and I hear the Commanding Officer tour for the Service School Command is open there.” I was fortunate to get that assignment, and again, uh, the only, uh—the biggest impression was if the kids were a little, uh, anxious in moving in that point in time, because they were in junior high [school] and getting little more into socializing. Uh, When I told them that we’d probably have a pool at the house, that settled the deal [<em>laughs</em>]. “Let’s go.” They were ready to pack and move—move down here. So I didn’t know much about it. That was it. Um, that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>How long were you here at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, we got here in 1988, and I retired from that job in 1991. So…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That was the tour.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, what were your overall impressions of the recruits and their training, during that time down [inaudible] your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, I thought it was terrific. You know, I was—really, there were three activities. You had the Recruit Training Center, You had the Nuclear Power School, and you had Service Schools Command. So, uh, while we did have some interaction in between all those activities, um, the sailors that—that I was seeing, uh, who were coming, from the most part, out of boot camp—uh, We did have some coming to advanced schools, uh, from the fleet, but the majority of them are coming right out of boot camp—uh, just top quality, you know?</p>
<p>People have said that the quality of our servicemen and women today are—is better than ever, and they have said it for years and years, and I firmly believe it. A lot of people who say, “Ah, it’s not like the old Navy,” and they talk about things like uniforms and discipline, which is always important, but the, uh, quality, the intellect, uh, the upbringing—if you will—uh, of the people that[sic] are coming into the service, I thought was terrific, and I saw that throughout my career. You know, you’re in that moving stream, so you don’t always see the difference, but when you think about it, and you stop and you think, and you say, <em>Look at the quality of the Electronic Technicians School, who are going through Torpedoman [Mate] School</em>—some of these highly technical courses—You have to really, you know, learn some significant stuff or hone their skills. Um, we had top-quality people.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. Um, Daily life for your, uh, Navy recruits and your Navy sailors, that[sic] are there training for the schools—what was it like?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, again, the people that[sic] were in my school, for the most part, were brand new, coming from out of 8-12 weeks of Recruit Training Center. So you still had to be aware of their conduct more off the base than on the base. Remember, these are young people who been cooped up at recruit training, where they didn’t get any liberty for months on end, if you will. Now, they’ve been cut loose, so to speak. Uh, yes[?], you go to class, but you had your weekends off, sort of thing.</p>
<p>I think, on the whole, uh, and really across the board, we had very few discipline problems—things of that nature. Again, in a—in an organization that size, deal with that demographic, there will be individuals who really weren’t suited for the service, or who had a momentary lapse in judgment, shall we say, and so that’s typical in any large organization. I don’t think it—it’s not so visible in civilian—civilian life, you know? If some fella who’s working on the line in General Motors [Company] goes out and gets arrested for DUI [Driving Under the Influence], or something like that, General Motors doesn’t really hold him to task. Well, the military’s a little different on how it, uh, wants its people to represent the organization.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Uh,couple of, uh, questions here, uh, for those who—who don’t know. Could you explain to us what the Grinder was?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>What the what?</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>The Grinder was.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>]. Well, I got very familiar with the Grinder at OCS, because the Grinder was where you—in OCS, you walked off punishment. I mean, it was the parade ground, and it was usually a paved a, uh—asphalt, uh, parade ground, uh, on which you’d have formal parades, but OCS—if you—if you didn’t make your bed right, or there was a dust bunny loose, or if your shoes weren’t shined, uh, when the other folks were going on liberty on Saturday, you were out there marching for two or three hours. Uh, And again, at—at boot camp, the Grinder was, again, the place where graduation was held, but again, uh, conduct infractions were marched off often times.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright, and, um, the purpose of the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> was, uh, a wooden replica, if you will, of a ship—a destroyer-type ship, and it had—internally, it had classrooms. Externally, it had fittings that you would find on, uh, a real ship. a life boat, or a whale boat, if you will, that could be lowered, raised, chalks, and bits, and lines, anchor chain, and halyards, and all the things that a sailor in—in the field of seamanship might encounter on a real ship, and so, uh, they can go on board that—that trainer, um, uh, and, uh, do the things that they would be asked to do out in the fleet, and they could also hold classes there. Uh, it was a—a fixture, if you will. A lot of people were sad to see it go.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. What kind of social life existed among the recruits on the base through the MWR—Morale, Welfare, and Recreation?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. Uh, the interesting fact is: when I retired from the Navy in 1991, uh, the first position I took as a civilian was director of the USO [United Service Organization], here in Central Florida, Which, in a sense, was responsible a little bit for the MWR. I mean, the base had its own MWR organization, which was really the root of it. Uh, when I was on active duty, I personally took advantage of it. They had great gym, and weights, and facilities, and pool—all those sorts of things that you would want on the base. They had opportunities for sailors to buy tickets to local events and theme parks—uh, the typical Morale, Welfare and Rec, uh, support system. The USO was there also, primarily to support, uh, the families that came to see the recruits graduate every week at—at, uh, the Naval Training Center, but, uh, the MWR ran some great programs. They always were there. I remember the people who were—for the most part, many were retired military who were running the programs. They had a golf course, which was, uh, one of the premiere, I think, spots in town, to play golf for the retired Navy community and active duty when they were on liberty. There was also a smaller course down by, uh—by the [McCoy] Air Force Base, or was then a civilian airport. They had a small place down there. They had camping gear you could check out. Um, Just, really great support. I think that was an asset for this—this community—the Navy community.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, did they have a local base newspaper?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>They did have a local base newspaper, and for the life of me, I’d have to think. I’d have to wake up at 3 in the morning to remember the name of it. I think it was <em>The Navigator</em> or something like that, and the fella named Jim Allen ran it, when I was there. He was sort of the—the editor. Uh, a great asset. I think it came out once a week, but Again, it covered the news, and all the good news, and, uh, that sort of thing. I—I got very familiar with the paper. I always wanted to make sure they—that if my activity had something to promote, it was in there, and it—they did a great job. It was a great asset.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br />‘</strong>Kay. After basic training, what other types of schools did you guys offer here at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Right. Well, Service School Command had four, uh, ratings, if you will—trade—Trade skills that they trained to. Uh, one was electronics technician, one was torpedoman, uh, one was quartermaster, and the other was signalman. So again we did that, and Nuclear Power School—they had two different, uh, schools, if you will: Nuclear Power A School, and I can’t for the life of me recall what the other division was called, but it was sort of like a lower division and an upper division, and their training, um—it went up to a lot of the skills and requirements of operating nuclear power plants. Uh, they had a lot of senior officers, who would go into command of nuclear powered ships, who went through that program. Very, very, uh, effective training program.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright, alright[?]. Um, did you have any shore maintenance that was done here? Did anything get sent back to have work done here locally for work done…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>You know…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>From the ships?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>I don’t believe that we did. I think, um, most of any maintenance that went on was supporting, uh, what was happening at the base, uh—that sort of thing, but it wasn’t like equipment was coming back from the fleet</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>For maintenance.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zand<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Because that was all done at the fleet site’s shore locations, if you will.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>What about airbases? Uh, ‘cause we have airbases here. Were we doing any work for the airbase maintenance?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, again, the Navy, um—a lot of that air training was done in Memphis, where a lot of the air raidings were done in Millington, if you will.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Again, um, if you’re talking about, like, [Naval Air Station] Jacksonville, which had a Naval Air Station up there and added their own—their facilities up there. So we really weren’t training aviation raidings.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>So our airbases here had been pretty much downgraded?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>The old airbases?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, Naval Air Station Sanford became the Orlando-Sanford…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Uh, International, uh, Airport. Um, uh, the Orlando International Airport was McCoy Air Force Base. Um, and, um, it’s always, uh, enjoyable when I drive down there and have a moment to scoot in by where the old [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress] is parked.<a title="">[3]</a> I think so many people in this community don’t know it’s there, haven’t had the opportunity to go down there where you can walk right up to it and kick the tires on this gigantic airplane. Up in, uh, Orlando-Sanford—which I’m sure the locals don’t know about—uh, there was a small civilian community, uh, that, uh decided to refurbish a [North American RA-5C] Vigilante, an A-5 aircraft, which is on display, uh, at the entrance to the airport up there. My wife and I had occasion to work with that committee and help, uh, put it in place, and, uh, that’s—that’s a sight, I’ll tell ya, and they’re working on refurbishing other aircraft for display up there.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Great[?].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Now, I know we had Tactical Air Command and Army Air Force[s] Training Command here, at one time. Did you have an occasion to work on any joint exercises with them?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, that was way before my time.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That was when they wore the leather helmets.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>They have—the do still have the simulator training and stuff that goes on here with the [U.S.] Joint Forces [Command]? Did you…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, the, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Participate in any of that?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>The Navy—the, um, Naval Air Warfare Training Center [Systems Division]…<a title="">[4]</a></p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Here in Orlando, is part of the Research Park activity, the military’s presence, uh, joint services are there, mostly contracting for, uh, training and simulation work. That’s why all of these defense contractors have set up shop here in Orlando, so that they can have close act[sic]—access to those folks, but there’s a lot of activity taking on—taking in that area, right here in Orlando. Very important to the community.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Right. I know the, uh, base has tied to developing technology and simulations. Were you involved in any of the future simulation exercises that were currently…</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>No, really…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Conducted by the military?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>That all used to be located at the Naval Training Center, and, of course, as it expanded, uh, I remember—I can’t tell you the exact year, but it was when I was in service here that they built the [Luis] De Florez Center, here in the Research Park, and moved that operation out there, and grew it, and had just a tremendous expansion of not only that joint service activity out there, but again , the growth in the Research Park of defense contractors who have come here to Orlando, but I did not work directly with the training and simulation activities here.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Thank you. Um, what’s the hardest thing you remember doing while you were, um, a Commander at the NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Pushups.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Pushups? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Yeah, well, you, um—I think “hardest” is a tough word. When you say “hardest,” uh, you know, I—I’ll change it over to what was the most, uh, difficult, uh, and that was the discipline. Um, Having to, uh, work with young people, who, again, had a lapse in—in judgment and came before you, because of some infraction—some minor, some not so minor, but it was always, I say, a little disappointment—maybe a little heartfelt, because it—in the back, you’ll say to yourself, uh, <em>This youngster can do better. </em>You’ve tried to provide them and your team to[?] guidance. Everybody makes a mistake, once in a while, and—and while there were those who, you know, were more than willing to atone for their sins, so to speak, and get back on track. Eh, there was the rare exception who was not the right person for the service and you had to ask them to leave, and, uh, I think—so when you say what was the “hardest,” it was that. You felt like to some degree, you failed. Now, some degree you—you can’t change some people—that sort of thing. So that was probably the most difficult, really.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Alright. From the most difficult, when did you feel the most proud at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think, um, every time you had a graduation, you know? Uh, every time you set sailor from your school out to the fleet, and you felt that they were—your team had prepared them, uh, very well to do the job, and that they would go out, and the people in fleet were going to look back and say, “Now, that sailor came from NTC Orlando. He or she was trained right.”</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, is there a particular story, um, from your time at the NTC that you’ll never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, there’s a million of them. A million of them. We used to—we had a lot of fun. I mean, if you don’t have fun—that’s not to say that every day was a good day, uh, but if you don’t come away, uh, with a balance sheet that says you had more fun than not, you’re probably either not doing it right or don’t belong there and, uh,every year, uh, the, uh, Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society would hold a fund drive. Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society is just what it sounds. It’s a[sic] organization—civilian organization—that, uh, provides release services for men and women in the Navy and the Marines who have had hardship. Whether it’s a house fire, a death in the family, some serious illness, they—they’re there to support with finances and services, if[?] necessary.</p>
<p>So every year they had a fund drive Throughout the Navy, and our little piece at the Navy Training Center broke down the individual commands, and what we did, for the time that I was there, we had a little carnival, or a cookout, or whatever every year in support of that, and my wife and I would put on a skit every year. So we did about three skits, during the time I was there, and [<em>laughs</em>]—and, uh, let’s see if I can remember them in the right order. One year, we did, uh a sk—it wasn’t a skit, but it was a song called “Lydia and the Tattooed Lady,” which [Julius] “Groucho” [Henry] Marx made famous, and I dressed up as Lydia the Tattooed Lady. My wife dressed up as Groucho Marx. The Navy band came and played the music.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>And out we went and did it for the crowd, and then one year, we did, uh, from, uh, <em>South Pacific</em>, uh—uh, the number “Honey Bun,” where—if you’re not familiar with it—this, um, senior sailor gets dressed up in a grass skirt and, um—and, um, uh, the Navy nurse dresses up as a sailor and sings about, uh, his girlfriend—his honey bun. So I dressed up in the grass skirt, and my wife dressed up in the sailor suit, and sang the song, and the Navy band played along, and then the last year we did, uh, “Get Me to the Church on Time” from <em>My Fair Lady</em>. So there I was in—in bridal regalia and she was, uh, dressed up as a, uh, groom going to the church, and we had great fun doing that. It made—let’s just say it made the base newspaper [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>That sounds wonderful.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, were there any other areas of the base that were of particular importance to you or the sailors?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, one of things, you—you know, everything was important, whether it was the commissary or what have you, but I remember Lake Baldwin, you know, which Baldwin Park is named after, if you will, and so many of the, uh, people who had the opportunity would go out there and fish on Lake Baldwin, or be at one of the clubs, whether it was the enlisted club or officer’s club, which looked out on Lake Baldwin. It was sort of, um, just the center of things, not necessarily geographically, but, uh, when you drove home, you went by it. That sort of thing. It was always there. The sort of Place a lot of people, uh, looked forward to seeing, or recreating on, what have you. The Maple Hospital overlooked Lake Baldwin. The golf course was off of Lake Baldwin. Uh, that sort of thing I remember very much.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, I know what you did when you left the Navy. You went to work for the USO. Do you recall the day your service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>The day my service ended? Yeah. Well, you know, like most senior people in the service, they have some sort of retirement ceremony for you. Change of command is what it really was, where, um, uh—a good friend of mine, uh, Captain Harry Smith—U.S. Navy retired, still here in Central Florida, uh,—relieved me of that job, and that was a very emotional day. It may not have be the—my last day—maybe it was the last day. Uh, it was just, uh, a very emotional time for me, um, in concluding that service, and reflecting back on all the years of service, all the assignments, the family, uh that sort of thing. So that’s my reflection on my last day, if you will</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Have you kept in touch with people from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, absolutely. Um, [<em>laughs</em>] there’s one warrant officer, uh, who served with me in Vietnam. He was the maintenance officer for the river section, and he, uh, sort of, uh, made it his business to stay in touch with, uh, those of us who were still around, and so, um, an email contact with him. As I said, Captain Smith, who relieved me of the Naval Training Service School Command job, um, was a good personal friend here. Dave Arms, retired Navy Captain, who was Commanding Officer of the [U.S.] Naval Reserve Center here in Orlando for a while, uh—still here, and, uh, we stay in touch. Um, you hear from some people every once in a while. One of the most poignant things I recall, uh, is: many, many, years went by, uh, after I had left Vietnam, and as I said, we lost a couple of people in our section, and I, over the years, received just a handful of correspondence from, uh, relatives of the people we lost, um, asking about them, and I responded to those people, and that was, in a way, staying in touch.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Was that hard?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, it—well, it was hard on—it wasn’t hard. Uh, I was glad to hear from them and to be able to tell them that, uh, their relative had served honorably.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Um, what values or characteristics do you believe that the Navy made, um—that instilled in you a great impression for the rest of your life?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think discipline, and I—I mean that in the finest sense of the word. Organization, uh, good order, wanting to see things in the right place, um, making decisions, you know—right or wrong. Somebody’s gotta make that decision. Uh, working with others towards a common goal—that sort of thing.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Your lasting legacy with the, um, NTC in Orlando and the Navy’s legacy, um, in Central Florida—what do you think, um, is the lasting legacy in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think the lasting legacy [<em>sniffs</em>] is a couple of different things. One is: people, like myself, who are here and remain here, who chose to stay for many different reasons. Uh, but we have a tremendous veterans’ population here. People who served here and came back—I see a lot of that up in Sanford. You know, people—there’s a lot of, um, people who don’t, uh, know about the Naval Air Station Sanford, and, uh—and I had the opportunity to meet a lot of them during the restoration of the vigilante aircraft. Boy, they came out of the woodwork, um, for that, and so that’s one, uh—one thing. I think what we’re doing at—at, um, Baldwin Park, with the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project] is a great, great thing. Uh, that will stand forever and, uh, when generations go by, people will still know that there was a Naval Training Center activity here, hundreds and thousands of young men and women passed through here in service to their nation. Um, you can’t do more than that.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>How do you think that the former Navy personnel would like to see or reminded, um, at the memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Well, I think that the Lone Sailor Memorial is a very, very appropriate, uh, recognition of what took place here over the years. I think, uh, there’s so much pride in—in veterans. I don’t care whether they did 20 years or a four-year hitch in the Navy. I have rarely spoken to an individual who served, especially in the Navy, uh, who didn’t come away saying “It was a good experience for me.” That sort of thing.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Okay. Um, when we’re looking at, uh, designing the [Blue Jacket] Park, what do you think they would like to see at the park?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Oh, nautical—Things of the nautical nature. I remember, when I [<em>laughs</em>] was, uh—had command at the Naval Training Center, and one of things, I think—my recollection of up at the Great Lakes is the—by—by virtue of the fact that it was a very, uh—I don’t want to use “old” in the wrong word—but it had been there for…</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Since 1903,<a title="">[5]</a> I think. They had accumulated a lot of maybe history there. Whether it was an anchor, or a gun, or what have you, and so as you walked around that base, if you will, a [inaudible] you saw a lot of these things And You knew you were at a military facility or a naval facility, and when I came to Orlando, one of things I asked my, uh, team to do was to bring some of those Navy artifacts to—to our activity, and I’ll never forget, uh, we brought two big—what we call “24-inch searchlights”—no longer in use in the fleet, but these, uh—If you see the movies and you see the big arc lights things searching for planes in the sky, and I, uh—I charged one of our officers. Uh, I said, uh, you know, “Get in touch with the—the old shipyards, who[sic] have this stuff in excess, and let’s see if we can’t get one.” They did. They brought it and it was mounted in front of the school. they got a, uh, uh, four-barrel—I think it was a 4-barrell—a 40-millimeter gun mount brought it down and got it there, and that was—when the base was closed, I think they transferred it, to my recollection, to the, uh, Oviedo High School and JROTC [Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps] unit, and they may still be there. I haven’t been in the back lot for a while.</p>
<p>So I think—and I remember that, uh, the torpedo—and it was a very strong World War II torpedo CO—submarine community here in Orlando, and I remember over at, eh, um—I don’t—it wasn’t near the USO, but it was somewhere over there in that vicinity, near the RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]. They had got these old World War II torpedoes and put them on display, and so I think, eh, you know, any of those type materials that can be brought, appropriately placed in and around Blue Jacket Park, uh, would really be a great reminder of, uh, the service that these people gave to their country.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>You’ve exhausted my list. Is there anything else you’d like to share with me?</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>Have a great Navy Day.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Aw.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>Thank you so much</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>I appreciate your time.</p>
<p><strong>Sloane<br /></strong>My pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Van Zandt<br /></strong>I’m ready to stop recording.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: “There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at with no result.”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Naval Destroyers School.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> B-52 Memorial Park.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Naval Station Great Lakes was approved in 1904 and dedicated in 1911.</p>
</div>
</div>
A-5
advanced training
aircraft
airplanes
airports
auxiliary service
B-52
B-52 Memorial Park
Baldwin Park
basic training
Blue Jacket Park
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
Bronze Star with V Device
BUPERS
Bureau of Naval Personnel
captains
Carli Van Zandt
Carolyn Van Zandt
Central Florida Research Park
Combat Action Award
Commander Carrier Group 8
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
CVHP
Dave Arms
deployments
destroyers
discipline
drafts
engineering
engineers
ensigns
Fernando Maldonado
Garcia
Get Me to the Church on Time
graduations
Great Lakes, Illinois
Grinder
Groucho Marx
gunnery officers
Harry Smith
historical preservation
historical restoration
Honey Bun
Jim Allen
Julius Henry Marx
Lake Baldwin
Legion of Merit
Lieutenant Junior
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
LST
LTJG
Luis De Florez
Luis De Florez Building
Lydia and the Tattooed Lady
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
Mekong Delta
memorials
military spouses
military training
military wife
military wives
Milwaukee
monuments
Morale, Welfare, and Recreation
MWR
My Fair Lady
NAS Sanford
Naval Air Station Sanford
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Divisions
Naval Destroyers School
Naval Education and Training Command
Naval Training Center
Naval Training Center Great Lakes
Naval Training Center Orlando
Naval War College
Navy E Ribbon
Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society
NAWCTSD
NETC
Newport, Rhode Island
NMCRS
North American A-5 Vigilante
NTC Great Lakes
NTC Orlando
Nuclear Power School
nurses
OCS
Officer Candidate School
Officer Car
orlando
Orlando International Airport
Orlando-Sanford International Airport
parks
planes
preservation
Purple Heart
Queens, New York City, New York
RA-5C
RA-5C Vigilante
recruit training
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
Repair Division Officer
Research Park
retirement
Richard T. Sloane
Richard Tobias Sloane
river patrols
River Section 35
Rockbridge
RTC Orlando
Sanford
Santa Barbara
selective service
Service School Command
Service Schools Command
SERVSCOLSCOM
simulations
simulators
South Pacific
Surface Warfare Advisor
Surface Warfare Officers School
The Navigator
training
U.S. Naval War College
U.S. Navy
United Service Organization
USO
USS Blue Jacket
USS Garcia
USS Hassayampa
USS Milwaukee
USS Rockbridge
USS Santa Barbara
USS Wisconsin
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
Vietnamese
volunteers
Ward Room
wars
Weapon Systems Officer
Wisconsin
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/efd5049d910182e50916c3c85f53df44.pdf
b46eaec4a1988206e0a961500df2e88d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Philip Rogers
Alternative Title
Oral History, Rogers
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Philip Rogers (b. 1953), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1998. Rogers was born in the Bronx borough of New York City, New York, in 1953. He attended Lehman College for undergraduate school and Indiana University for graduate school. In May of 1978, Rogers was commissioned as an officer and assigned to teach engineering at the Nuclear Power School at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). After four and a half years, he became an Engineering Duty Office in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando on November 14, 2014. Interview topics include Rogers' background, becoming a commissioned officer, teaching at the Nuclear Power School at NTC Orlando, serving as an Engineering Duty Officer in Pearl Harbor, serving in the Naval Reserves, advanced training, the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em>, the Cold War, the University of Central Florida (UCF), his wife and family, and the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:03:05 Becoming a commissioned officer<br />0:09:02 Pearl Harbor, Hawaii<br />0:10:41 Naval Reserves<br />0:11:36 Advanced training and the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em><br />0:15:24 Hawaii<br />0:17:26 Making suggestions and dry docking<br />0:18:37 Transition from active duty to Reserve<br />0:20:03 Naval mentors<br />0:22:09 Ronald Reagan, the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crises, and Bill Clinton<br />0:24:39 Final years in the Reserves and civilian life<br />0:25:54 Civilian attitudes towards the military <br />0:26:48 University of Central Florida and wife<br />0:29:06 Terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001<br />0:30:08 Lessons learned from the Navy and benefits of joining<br />0:32:48 Migrating to Orlando and working at UCF<br />0:34:29 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Philip Rogers. Interview conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando, Florida, November 14, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
20-page digital transcript of original 35-minute and 37-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Bronx, New York City, New York
Washington, D.C.
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Jensen Beach, Florida
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Rogers, Philip
Hiltz, Killian
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-14
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-14
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
306 MB
196 KB
Medium
35-minute and 37-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Killian Hiltz and Philip Rogers.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Today is, um—it is November 14<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Phil—Philip Rogers, um, who served in the Navy from 1978 through—to 1998. Mr. Rogers served as an instructor at the Naval [Nuclear] Power School. Uh, he retired as a Commander. My name is Killian Hiltz, I am interviewing, uh, Mr. Rogers as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans Community History Project. We are recording this interview, uh, at Orlando, Florida. Um, thank you, Mr. Rogers. Um, uh, where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I was born in the Bronx[, New York City], New York, uh, in 1953.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, grew up in a modest, you know, tenant apartment. Went to public schools, um, two years of private schools, went—and then Lehman College, which is a ci—city school. Did that, uh—did that for, you know—through—and then I worked a little bit. Um, and probably when I was like 22, I went off to graduate school in Indiana.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was the private school like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It was good. It was a little more disciplined. The schools I was[sic] in was[sic] a little rough, so my parents took me out to a more, you know—less chance of getting hurt [<em>laughs</em>]—school. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was, um—what was college like, for you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I liked it. I was a commuter. I went back and forth on the train, uh, eh, because we didn’t have a car. So we—I travelled on the train to high school and to college for eight years. Uphill both ways—just joking [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, so I traveled that way, uh, and did my four years there, and I got a degree in chemistry from, eh, um, Lehman College.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, you mentioned that you went to graduate school, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your gra—what was your grad…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I got a Master’s degree in chemistry, entomology, from Indiana University. I was in the PhD<a title="">[1]</a> program, but when the Navy came looking for people, I kinda said, <em>Well, I wanna do that.</em> so I kinda left with a Master’s degree and went on to, uh, um—the, um—took the Master’s and then went on to the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>My father was a laborer, worked in a baker[sic], and my mother was just stay-at-home—stay-at-home mom.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Brother. Still have a brother. Actually, he lives in Orlando. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—your brother also join the service?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, no. He never did. No.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, did, uh—did anyone in your family before you, uh, serve as enlisted or commissioned?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, my father was—was, um, enlisted in, uh, World—World War II. Um, and my grandfather was in World War I.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what branches did they serve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Army. Both of them, Army.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did they see combat?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yes. Both of them did. Uh, my—In fact, my grandfather had a Purple Heart, and, uh, my father didn’t get a medal, but he had—he had some kind of foot injury or something, but—yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, uh, what caused you to become a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it was a—it’s a long story. It was like, um— let’s see. Indiana University—it’s kind of cold up there—Bloomington, Indiana. It was like six degrees below zero [<em>sniffs</em>], and, uh, the Navy had a little brochure says—saying, “Would you like to fly to Orlando on the Navy this weekend?” Free. Orlando, Florida. So I said, “Sure.” I had no intention to go into the military—zero. So I went, “Okay. Fine.” so I signed up, and then I had to go take some tests, you know—you know, academic tests and physical tests, and, uh—and then they said,”Well, You know, Admiral [Hyman George] Rickover,” who is the Father of the Nuclear Navy, “would like to interview you in Washington D.C.,” you know, “Would —you—would you like to go?”</p>
<p>So they sent me to—first, let’s go back up. Before I went there, they—they told me I was going for an interview. So they showed me the school—so they sent me down here as promised for the trip down here, so I went to the trip in Orlando, and it was great. [Walt] Disney World—they took us to Disney World and showed us—the Nuclear Power School, by the way, was in Orlando, at that time, okay? Just up the road here, by Bennett Drive. Um, so they showed me the school, and it was like 80 degrees. It was really nice. They hooked me in, so I’m like, <em>I’d like to go there.</em> It was—it was an academic job, because, you know, I liked teaching, and it was an academic job, and, you know, I would get paid a lot more there as a graduate student, than as a graduate student. So, uh—so I said, “Okay. It sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So then I went to Washington D.C., uh, for an interview, and, uh, one thing you got to understand that in that the nuclear—in the nuclear program, it’s kind of a select program, and that the admiral that is in charge—the four-star admiral is about as high as you can go in the Navy. He interviews all the applicants, you know, that—that—that come into the program, and so you go there for a day of tests. Take a bunch of written tests, oral exams. They ask all kinds of physical questions, and—and then they ask how to explain things and they do that, and at the end, you go see Admiral Rickover—Hyman Rickover. So I go into this guy’s office, and he’s a four-star admiral, and he’s sitting in a chair. Very little man, probably 5’5”, uh, white grey hair, he was about 78, at the time, and, uh, he—so I sat down. I had long hair, I was a graduate student, I had no inkling of military at all in me.</p>
<p>So I sat down, and, uh, the Admiral says to me, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me and the Admiral says to me— um, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me, right? So the Admiral says to me, “Wha—what’s that? What’s that pin on your, uh, lapel there?” So I took it off and I said, “Well, um, this means I’m a member of the American Chemical Society.” And he jumped at me, and he says to me like this—he says, “Let me see that blicity pin.” ‘Kay? I don’t want to put any expletives on this tape, but he—but, uh, he said, uh, um, “Let me see that pin.” so I put it in his hand, and—and he said—looked at me in the eye—and he goes, “How do you know I know more chemistry than you do? Maybe I should keep this pin.” And I said, “Admiral, if that’s the case, then you can get your own pin.” Then he threw is back at me, and then he says, uh, “Did any of the girls tell you that you were good-looking?” I said, “Sure. All the time.” He says, “That’s a proposition. You don’t even know the facts of life. Get out of my office.”</p>
<p>So this was my interview with a four-star admiral. So I said, <em>Well, I dunno. I guess I didn’t get that job. </em>So I Walked down the hall, and this captain, that[sic] went in there with me, said, “Congratulations. The Admiral selected you to be an instructor at Nuclear Power School.” So I said, “Great.” so I signed up, finished my—my dissertation for my Master’s degree, and then I, uh—I came down to Orlando. Went—went to some school—uh, Officer School—Officer Indoctrination School, and then I came to Orlando in 1978. I was commissioned in March of 1978, I believe, and, um, —then I, Um, uh, came to or—Orlando in May. Went—went to some—in the school—I went to the school in between then about six weeks. So I—I arrived down here in like May of 1978—in Orlando, and I spent the next four and a half years here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your officer, uh, training like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It wasn’t the standard training that—that you’d normally get. It’s kind of like training—‘cause we weren’t expected to stay in the Navy. We were expected to go in for our four, you know—our—our—our four-year promise, and then leave, Right? So it was very watered down, so to speak. It was not very rigorous as some—some. It was like the same training lawyers get, the doctors get, and—and nurses, the—the professional, you know—the training the professionals gets. It’s [inaudible] how do you—how you act like an officer, and—and, you know—so nothing—nothing too, uh, exotic.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your family and friends; reaction to you becoming a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, that was funny, because my father was enlisted and he—he had some grumbling about officers. He goes, “I remember—I remember this officer made me salute him.” He goes, “He was a big jerk. I hope you’re not like that.” So [<em>laughs</em>]—so he was a little—he was proud, but yet, he was saying, you know, you gotta be a little humble, you know, when you’re doing this stuff too. So—But I think he was proud that—that I went in there, you know, and—and did it. So, like I said, I had no— I just did it, because hey, it was great. I wanted to go teach and the Navy’s got this job to go teach, you know? I said, <em>I’m not staying in. </em>I said, <em>Honest,</em> <em>no way I’m staying</em>, you know?</p>
<p>So then I did my four years. I taught thermodynamics, I taught nuclear physics, you know, regular classical physics, I taught chemistry, radiological—all the stuff, and the thing about that Nuclear Power School: they—they teach you how to teach a class, you know? They teach you how to talk to people, how to make eye contact, how to go back and forth and relate information. I still carry that—that talent to this day, with how they taught me how to do that. So, it was really—it was really good. So I really had—it was the best job of my life. I mean, it was, you know, basically, a day job. No deployment—nothing. It was great for four years. You know, unfortunately, you know, after four years, they want you to leave, ‘cause in the Navy, you get to move up or you move out. So—so that’s what happened.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>‘Kay. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What happened after those four years?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, after four years, normally, you get out, right? And this was right at the height of the Cold War, ‘round 19—it was around 1982, and they needed people with engineering background—not necessarily ship driving experience, but with some engineering background, and some knowledge of chemistry, physics—To work on shipyards, to help when the ships—Submarines come in [<em>sniffs</em>]. They help the submarines get ready for sea, and—and fix them, and things like that—to oversee that. So they asked if, you know, I would like to go do that, and I said, “Eh, I’ll think about it,” and then they said, “Would you like to go to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and do it?” [<em>laughs</em>]. So I said, “Hm. Okay. I’ll—that sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So I did—I went into what is called the “Engineering Duty Officer Program,” so I went in—which is basically engineering. I—I was very restricted, because I’m colorblind. Eh, when I took my physical, I was actually—they determined that I was colorblind, so I could not drive a ship. So I was restricted as to what I could do. So, I mean—but I could do the engineering stuff, so I was—I became a Restricted Line Officer, which means you don’t drive the ships, but you can do a lot of other things naval officers do. So—so I did that.</p>
<p>I was—I went to Submarine School after that, I went to Engineering Du—Duty Officer School, and Nuclear Ship Superintendent School, which show you—show you how to manage repairs of a ship. Not that I would do the repairs myself, but I oversee the people doing it, right? And interface with the ship, as a—as a representative from the Navy to get[?] that, and I did that for about—about, uh, three years, right? And then—it was okay, but it wasn’t teaching. I really wanted to teach.</p>
<p>Um, so what—what I did after that time is: I—I—I got out of the Navy in 1986, but I stayed in the [Naval] Reserves, uh, as a—as a[sic] Engineering Duty Officer. Oh, also, on that time while I was on active duty, I got my Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins, which is, you know specialized in submarine repair, and then, after that, um, I got out of the Navy and tended my resignation, but I stayed on—I stayed in the Reserves, and then, I came down to, uh—went down to, um, South Florida. I took a job at a nuclear power plant. I was an instructor, right? Teaching down there, and I stayed in the Reserves, and I drilled for the next 12 years. I—I drilled, uh—drilled my—my—from Jensen Beach, which is about 130 miles from here, to Orlando. I drilled every week—once every week—and two weeks a year, and I—I went up through the chain there, [inaudible], and got my rank there, up to—and made Commander in the Reserves in 1994.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong><br />Uh, what, uh—what was your schooling like, when you were going through the Submarine and Engineering [Duty Officer] Schools—Oh, um, when you were still in the active? What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, that was, uh—it wasn’t—I mean, it was okay. It was a—was a—it was kinda challenging, because, Uh, you had to—you had to go and know—know how to—and they put you in a room, and they start leaking the pipes, and, you know, you gotta, you know, repair the pipe, so you don’t drown and stuff like that, and then, you know that—you learn a little bit about navigation and how to—how to basically, uh, go through it. I was a little bit senior. I was a Lieutenant when I went through, and most of them were ensigns that[sic] went through there, but, Uh, you know, it was basically how to respond to emergencies on submarines, and then, you know, dive the ship up and down. I was able to do that[?]. I did a—I was able to surface the ship and dive the ship. I did that several times on the simulator and—and in real life— in a real submarine.</p>
<p>You know, and one thing that I did not—I neglected to mention is that I was on a submarine for two months, as part of my qualification program. So I was on the <em>Nathan Hale</em>, and we went out—and I can’t tell you where we went—but we went out somewhere in the ocean, and we had missiles on the ship. Uh, we—that was a deterrent patrol that I had to go through to get my qualification, you know, to do that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So—and then—then that’s [inaudible]. Nuclear Ship Superintendent School is very technical. It was like how to ma—manage radiation. The Navy is very sensitive to—to nuclear safety and the shipyards have to be—everything perfect. So they want people who are going to follow the rules and know what they’re doing. So they send us to special school to—to kinda—to kinda help us understand how to manage this[sic] nuclear, uh, projects at the shipyard.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what, uh— was your, uh—the submarine’s class? Do you—do you know?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, it’s a—it’s a—it was an SSBN [Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines]. It was a ballistic nuclear submarine, uh, it’s since, has been way since decommissioned. It was a pretty old ship, when I was on it Um, so it carried <em>x</em> number of missiles, and, uh, I ‘m not sure if that is classified anymore, but it’s so many missiles, and what we did was just go out there and wait—wait for launch orders, which, thankfully, never came. So I never really fought in hot war, but I was in the Cold War, which kinda was preventing the big war [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was it like—what was life like on the submarine?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, it was very, uh, interesting. It was kind of lonely. Uh, Now, I knew I was only going to be on it for like one patrol, so it was okay, you know? It was interesting. Got to do some—some interesting things, but, for the most part, you really eat a lot. They have—they have—you can eat up to four times a day. It’s just like a cruise ship, but you work [<em>laughs</em>], right? So you have breakfast, you have lunch, you have dinner, and then you have MIDRATS [Midnight Rations] at night, depending on your shift. They always got meals going on in a submarine, so you can eat, eat, eat, and I actually gained 15 pounds, you know, on the submarine, you know? So it was a—it was a bit of a weight curve, trying to get the weight off [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh, you know, it was good. I got the up and down—A lot of stuff in the submarine, you don’t know everything, because a lot of it’s classified, like what they targeted—the stuff—I couldn’t see that. So I never knew where we really were at. So it was all a part of, you know—it was kind of a tense time, with the Cold War. We were in secret locations and stuff like that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was the crew like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Crew was good. I mean, they were—they knew I was a short-timer, so they—they kidded me around a little bit, and—and—‘cause they knew. They called me the “rider.” You know, and they said, “You’re just in your rack all day. That’s all you do. You don’t do real work.” but they were kinda—they were in a kidding type of way, right? And I was called—they called me the “assistant engineer.” So I—I—I oversee some training lessons and did stuff like that for them, but I stood the watch. You know, on the submarine ship, you stand a watch, you’re—you’re good, because, uh, somebody else doesn’t have to stand the watch for diving officer. I did that. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your time in Hawaii like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, it was great. It was, uh, beautiful—the most beautiful places on Earth. It’s, uh—nice mountains, and the job was pretty stressful—getting the ships out—because, like I said, this is the height of the Cold War, and the ships came in. they had to get repaired in a certain window, Because there are only so many submarines out there. One comes in, and, uh, they only got coverage for a certain amount. So you gotta get that ship out on time, and if it’s not on time—not out on time, some people up high up don’t get too happy about that. So we gotta make sure that everything’s done timely and safely. So not only—and we just couldn’t—since it’s a nuclear submarine—First of all, nuclear submarines can be hazardous in themselves, and you got reactors on ‘em, and you gotta be extra special careful with respect to nuclear safety, and so sometimes, some things take a little longer than you might anticipate. So, uh, you always have that—you always have that bal—and I was in charge, so if the ship was late, it was on me. You know, I had to answer for it. So...</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—did you ever have any incidents happen, during that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, yeah. Um, I was on one submarine. When—when I was in the shipyard, we occasionally had to go out ride submarines when—after repairing them, and then one of the hydraulic plants went on fire. So it was a submarine underwater, and it was on fire, but the crew is so trained. It was like, “Okay. Fine.” Just like training—t was no different than when we had the training. We went over there, <em>swoosh</em>, they put it out, and then we—we went on to eat for lunch. So it was like okay.</p>
<p>They were very seasoned, very seasoned crew. Um, the chiefs in the Navy—they really—I was an officer, but the chiefs in the Navy—they, you know—they run the show. They—they get the people to do the work, and so my admiration is for the chiefs, you know, [inaudible] folks. They’re—they’re the ones that make it happen, you know? We get the credit, most of the time. Sometimes, we get the blame, as the officers, but that’s kind of the way it is, but they’re the ones that—the enlisted guys—they’re the ones that[sic]—that[sic] make it work. So my father kind of sent me a lesson, when he said, “You’re gonna—you’re gonna be this hotshot officer, but you’re going to learn who does the work.” And I did.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, do you have any, uh, moments that stand out, during your time in, um, Hawaii or Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, well, one day, uh—well, I can say that, at the end, I—I—I made a suggestion to move the repair somewhere where it would be cheaper or a little more cost-effective, and—and still do it safely, and that—they—they actually listened to me and did it. So when I left—I don’t know how that went, but it wa—it did save some money. So that was—that was a good, good part of it, uh—good part of it, but a lot of that—I remember it was a lot of stress on that, but—but that was a good part of it, at—at—at—at the end there.</p>
<p>So—and I would still dock ships, you know—dry docked ships that come into the shipyard, and a dry dock is: you—you—you bring a ship in, and to work on the hull of a ship, you can’t—can’t be in the water, right? So you—you put the ship on blocks, you drain the dry dock down, and then you go into the ship, and you do what you gotta do, back—and back up. Then you put the water back in, and then you float the ship out, but Putting the ship on blocks is a—a, you know—a very engineering-involved thing. So, as the docking officer, I had to do the calculations to make sure the ship would sit on the block right and stay there, and do all those calculations and stuff.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> <br />‘Kay. Um, so, um, coming back now to, uh, your—your—how was your transition from being active duty to Reserve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, not really—not really, um,—because I never had too many deployments, so I was always with my family. Like I said, I had a[sic] atypical career. I [inaudible] —I had it good, really. Um, so I didn’t have a lot—other than that one deployment, right? So when I went to Reserves, you know, I really was away from home more in the Reserves than when I was active duty, ‘cause I would have to drive to Orlando on—on the weekends, And then the two weeks a year, uh, I mean, again, I was with a lot of engineers. I had in my group, we had like PhDs, we had, you know, professional engineers. All highly, you know—highly educated people that[sic] worked for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], or worked for the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center, or whatever, and then they did the Reserves stuff, you know, on the side, ‘cause they were—they had this engineering background.</p>
<p>So I didn’t find too much of a, uh—uh, a transition. I went from a kind of academic environment, uh, to that. Now, I had a little more experience than a lot of the Reserves, ‘cause I actually was a[sic], uh, active duty—engineering duty officer, and a lot of them just came in the Reserves. So I had a little—a little more experience actually being there. I had the qualifications for the Dolphins and stuff like that. So that helped me a little bit, you know, with getting my advancements, you know, as I—as I, you know, got promoted on. So I also had some good leaders that[sic]—that[sic] showed me the ropes in the Reserves. That—that really helped me.<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you remember any of those?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I do. I, uh—can I say their names?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, yep.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Or whatever?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I remember one, uh—one key person that[sic] was a—was a, eh—he was a[sic] Admiral: Rear Admiral Steve Israel. He was, uh, a great mentor to me. Um, when I first came in the Reserves, he kinda took me under his wing, kinda showed me the—the life in the Reserves, and, uh—and we worked together. I worked within several of his units, when he was a—When I met him, he was a Commander, and then, as he went through, he became Captain, and then ultimately, he became—became an Admiral, and I still, you know, am still in contact with him, you know, to this day, but He was very, very—he was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate, very good about dealing with people, and stuff like that, and another person gr—Captain Jim Tully. I worked for him, and I took his Reserve unit when he—when he left that unit to go to another unit, I took over for him in, uh—in—for him, in that—in that capacity. So he always mentored me too, and he’s—he’s actually the Mayor of Titusville. Yeah. So [<em>laughs</em>]—but He’s great—he is one of the—one of the best leaders I’ve ever met, and one of the most, uh—most—talk about people—talk about people with integrity, and people in political office. Well, he’s got political office, and I don’t know anybody with more integrity than that man does have. He’s just amazing. So we still keep in touch. Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you, um—do you have any stories or memories from your—from your time in the—in the Reserves that stand out?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, again, going back to the, you know—the enlisted people run the show. Uh, When I got—when I got command of my unit, I—I—I had a chief who was a Mensa [International]—high IQ [intelligence quotient] guy. Much smarter than I would ever be, and I asked his advice, you know, all the time, and that’s why my unit was so successful, and he helped me, give me advice on how to do things, and, you know, it went on from there. So I relied heavily on that. So I never—I never—I only made a couple of mistakes when I was a junior officer, thinking I knew it all, but that didn’t last out. Found out: the more senior I got, the less I thought I knew [<em>laughs</em>]. I knew more I had to rely on people that[sic] working[sic] for me. I mean, that’s the key to success. Um, and, uh—so—so that was very, very helpful.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, during—during the time in the Navy, um, did you, um—Um, what was—what was life like, um, in the [Ronald Wilson] Reagan years?<a title="">[2]</a></p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, life was good. Reagan was president—in fact, I saw Reagan come in the airport in Hon—Honolulu[, Hawaii], and, uh, you know, I am a big Reagan fan. Uh, and, uh, ‘cause I, eh—we grew up to kinda get the Cold War—and one of the beautiful things was when I finally got into the Reserves, there—there—the war we were fighting, we really won it, because even though it wasn’t a hot war, the Soviet Union collapsed. We stood up to them and they’re gone. Now, they’re rattling their little sword again, but—but, at—at least at that time, they were—we—we won that. So, I mean, I liked the war. I felt like we had a strength in the nation for—for—for that, due to Reagan and the buildup—the buildup he did. I just kinda make the Russians<a title="">[3]</a>—“Well, we can’t keep up with this.” So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> Uh, how did the—the—in that case, how did the, uh—the breaking down of the Wall in Berlin[, Germany] make you feel?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I thought it was great. I says[sic], “Wow. This is a great thing.” Because I grew up—when I grew up in the—in the [19]50s, the—the—I mean, I grew up during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we thought we were going to World War III. I mean, it was right—right around the corner. I mean, my father was shaking and white ashen[?], ‘cause I looked at him—well, and I was only—what? I don’t know. 11—10 years old, or something like that, and—and it’s just like—he’s shaking white. Something—something’s going on here, and—and that was the closest we’ve—we’ve ever come, right? And, um—and there were some things—even during the Cold War, there were some things that happened, which we don’t want to go into, but, you know—but, for the most part, there was peace, right? So when the—when the [Berlin] Wall came down, Reagan said, “Tear down this wall,” and it happened. So that was—that was a good thing, and then, when, uh—I would never had believed it when it happened—they said the Soviet Union collapsed. It was like, <em>Wow.</em></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, in co—and in comparison, how are the [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton years in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, uh, Clinton—I mean, to a—see, Clinton was—he— ‘90s, uh, I got my senior—I think he signed my, uh—uh, my—my, uh—my promotion to Commander, and also he signed my discharge—my—my retirement paper, uh, in ’98, right? So—so I have some good—good, uh, Um, you know—He treated, you know, the military well too, you know? He was a smart, smart guy. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how were your, uh, final years in the Navy, eh, eh—in the Navy Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Good. Um, I mean, it was good. Uh, I was like—I had command of the unit, and then I was traveling so much back and forth, it was like, okay, you know? I was getting up for Captain, and I just decided that was time to, you know—time to—I didn’t make Captain the first pass. So I said, “Okay.” I had another chance, but I decided, you know, to get out. Um, so I decided just to—to go spend more time at my other job.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What was your other job, at that point?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I worked at a nuclear power plant, teaching chemistry, physics. The same thing I did in Nuclear Power School, right? So—right.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>So what was life like after the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it just went from teaching for the Navy and the submarine stuff and still have the resources—so it was really—To me, it wasn’t an abrupt end. It was a, uh, gradual transition over the years, ‘cause I was, uh, in active duty for eight years, Reserves for 12. So it was kind of a long—and then I—well, during the 12 years, I had my civilian job. So I—I kinda worked the two together, you know? Worked the two together. So—and As, you know, eh—as I went through my job, and I got more senior in the Navy, more senior in the Navy, and then got up there. I mean, Commander is pretty high up, I guess. So, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how did the Americans actually treat you, while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The who?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>The Americans. The civilians.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The civilians? Oh, yeah. No problem. We didn’t have that Vietnam Syndrome, where, you know—where they—they spit on me or anything like that. Uh, I think today though—I mean, I think people are more appreciative of the military today, than they were even back when—when I was in there. I did used to do some recruiting for—for, uh, the Nuclear Power School, when I was at Nuclear Power School. I went out to the West Coast, and sometimes, I didn’t get a very friendly reception by the—the people on the campus at Washington University. Over there, they didn’t quite like my presence there. So—But I think today, I—I think the American people are more—are a lot more behind the troops. A lot more than compared to Vietnam [War] and even than when I was in. I think they realize what really they do for them.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any dealings with UCF at that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I did actually. I, uh—I took a couple of classes here in 1982, when this campus was just a few buildings. So Industrial Chemistry, I took a few courses, because I was living in Orlando, and, you know, I just—I just did that. It didn’t end up in degree—I didn’t end up in a degree. I just have the classes. I think I have like 15 credits. Um, uh, Dr. [Gerald] Mattson—I think I had him, and I think he is still here, in the chemistry department. Um, so, uh—so I had that, and, you know, we were just kinda starting out. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we—we came to UCF. She had to take an education course and sit in these little seats, you know, she could barely fit into it. It was kinda—we went together. She took a [inaudible] some education courses, and I did the chemistry stuff. So—so yeah. UCF is a little part of my time here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, you mentioned your wife. Um, did you—you met her while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Actually, I met my wife in Orlando, okay? Um, uh, when I was an instructor here, I worked with another instructor, and his wife worked at a school, and she knew somebody. So they set this up on a blind date, and, uh, I mean, that was it. We’re married for 34 years.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Fantastic. Um, did she go with you to, uh, Hawaii?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. You bet she did. Now, obviously—and, In fact, we were on the submarine. Um, they did a dependents’ cruise. Now, what a dependents cruise is: you can actually come on a submarine, right? They let the dependents come on the submarine. So she actually came on the submarine with her father, and we did, uh, some op[eration]s for them. We dove the ship, and surfaced the ship, and did all these things, and they got to eat.</p>
<p>You know, so she comes in—she comes into the submarine. Now, on a submarine, you gotta understand: there’s a wardroom, just like this, and at the head of the table, there’s the Captain, and that’s the Captain’s chair. Nobody sits in the chair. So what does my wife do? She comes in and plops down right in the Captain’s chair, and I kinda say, “I don’t [inaudible] you need to sit there.” [<em>laughs</em>] So I rise her about that [inaudible], but she is probably one of the few ladies that[sic] were ever on a submarine—a nuclear submarine. Now, Of course, they are getting women into the program, but at that time, you know, she—she thought was kind of fun. So after being at sea for a little bit on the submarine, And then, I—she went off, and then shortly after that, I—I came back home. So that was—that kind of fun.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>That’s fantastic. Um, um, how did the events of 9/11<a title="">[4]</a> effect you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I was pissed, right? I was really mad that we couldn’t—that something like that could happen here. Uh, and I don’t know. You can point fingers and blame, but, you know, I, eh—it—it’s just one of those things that we got to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Uh, it’s one of those—it ripped every American apart, you know, and—and including me. Now, I was actually retired already. Um, so I, um, was already done. Uh, I mean, I could have been called to active duty, but they didn’t. I’m too old already, I guess. So—so they didn’t bother, you know, calling me up, but, uh—so yeah. That was kind of…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you still have any, uh—were any of your friends still in the—in active…</p>
<p><strong>Roger<br /></strong>Yeah, I think Captain Tully, that[sic] I talked to you about. I think he was still in at that time, and, uh, then he retired subsequently after that. So, um, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was one of the most important lessons that you learned from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, leadership. How to manage people and how to respect people, and just, of course, you just gotta—because you got all the stripes on doesn’t mean you know everything, and, I mean, that was the lesson my father tried to let me know before I went in there, and I did some stupid things. “Oh, I am in charge, because I’m an officer.” You know, I only did that once or twice, and then I remembered that I had better relying on the chiefs more, because they’re really the ones that really kinda know what’s going on [<em>laughs</em>]. So I did that. So a little humility’s a good thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, do you have any, uh, messages that you would like to tell the young people of America today?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, the military’s a great way to go, especially if you got some technological talent. Eh, you—that—that Navy instructor program is a great way to get in, serve your country four years. You don’t have to stay in. You can teach at the Nuclear Power School, you can teach [inaudible] people who are really willing to learn, and they have to be, and they are really good students, and you—you get to teach stuff, and you come away with some great teaching skills that, at the end of it—that you can—that you can use anywhere else, you know? So, you know, To this day, I could teach anybody off the street how—how a steam engine works and so they would understand it. So, I mean, it’s am—an amazing thing.</p>
<p>So—so that’s—and don’t overlook that service. I mean, you know, my sons are likely not—not to go into it. I didn’t influence ‘em either way. One’s an engineer and one’s a—one’s a—a [inaudible] MBA [Master of Business Administration]. He’s got his MBA and he is a HR [human resources] manager over at Seaman’s[sp], so my sons are pretty successful, but I never influenced them to go one way or the other, but they’re proud of me that I did it.</p>
<p>Like I said, I did not have the career that some of these guys out there. They really put their lives on the line, and I never really had to do that. I was never shot at, okay? Um, but I served my country the best I could, you know? But the guys that really—the guys that went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s just amazing how they—they sacrificed—a lot of them—just so much: their lives, limbs, and everything else. It’s just—and—and—and did it, and they get—they get something—they get like their hand shot off, and they wanna go again, and go back and do it again. It’s just, you know—how do you—how do you instill that in our youth? That—that sense of duty. You know, it’s just a great, great thing. Not that they got hurt, but that they have this, uh—this dedication, and their patriotism for their country, and to do the right thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, uh, uh, um, what, um—How did you actually end up at UCF, after, um, your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Well, I, um—a granddaughter comes into that. I was, uh—worked at the nuclear plant for 25 years. I—I retired from the Reserves in ’98, right? And in 2001, I went back to school again, got a Master’s degree—another Master’s degree—online, um, for—for, uh, education—online distance learning. So I did that for about—took me about four years to get it. I got that degree in 2006. Uh, and then finally, uh—Uh, what—what was your question again?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, how did you end up at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. Okay. So I—I graduated—after 25 years, I, you know—I retired from—I retired from FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] and I got bored, okay? So when I got very bored, um, I decided to come back to work. So my granddaughter—we had a new granddaughter that[sic] lives down in, uh, Oviedo[, Florida], here. So they—I saw this job at UCF as a Safety Training Coordinator. When I’m training, it looks good to me. So I applied for that job. I got it, so we moved down here. So my wife’s a—a full-time grandma, babysitter type, you know—help out with the kid, and I—I come here. I like my job, I’m teaching, and I got something to do. I got a sense of purpose, other than sitting at home doing nothing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what year did you guys, uh—did you come here?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, June 2013. So I haven’t been here that long. I’ve only been a UCF employee about a year and a half. Uh, you know, Two years it will be in June. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, congratulations.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Um, is there anything else that, uh, we missed that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, I mean, I think you about hit all on the head. I mean, it’s all—in the military, it’s all about—it’s about duty, honor, country, leadership. I mean, everybody should kind of get that experience. Well, not for everybody. It’s not for everybody, and—and I don’t know if I would have gone in, if it weren’t for the nuclear program. I don’t think I would have enrolled to just go, you know, to drive a ship. I couldn’t have anyway, because of my—my color—they wouldn’t—they wouldn’t have accepted me in anyway, but because I had some academic potentials, they used me for that, right? So the Navy kinda used me for what talents I had, and—and so, you know, anybody can do that. Yeah. So it’s a great thing. My thanks is for all the people that[sic] have gone on, and—and help, and, today, that[sic] continue to serve.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, uh, thank you for your time. Uh, and thank you, um, on behalf of UCF and myself, for answering our, um…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>For answering our questions and having this, uh, wonderful interview.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your—your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Doctorate degree.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> January 20, 1981 - January 20, 1989.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Soviets.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
9/11
advanced training
American Chemical Society
Bennett Drive
Berlin Wall
Berlin, Germany
Bill Clinton
Bronx, New York City, New York
Caribbean Crisis
cold war
colleges
colorblindness
Commander
commissioned officers
Community Veterans History Project
Cuba
Cuban Missile Crisis
CVHP
dependents' cruises
deterrent patrols
dry docks
education
educators
Engineering Duty Officer
Engineering Duty Officer Dolphin Program
Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins
Engineering Duty Officer School
Father of the Nuclear Navy
firefighting
fires
Florida Power & Light Company
FPL
Gerald Mattson
Germany
Hyman G. Rickover
Hyman George Rickover
Indiana University
instructors
Jensen Beach
Jim Tully
Killian Hiltz
Lehman College
mayors
military education
military spouses
military training
military wife
military wives
Nathan Hale
nuclear power
Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines
nuclear power plants
Nuclear Power School
nuclear safety
Nuclear Ship Superintendent School
October Crisis
Officer Indoctrination School
OIS
orlando
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Philip Rogers
presidents
Restricted Line Officer
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Wilson Reagan
Safety Training Coordinator
September 11th
South Florida
Soviet Union
Soviets
SSBN
Steve Israel
SU
Submarine School
submarines
subs
teachers
terrorism
terrorists
The Missile Scare
training
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
UCF
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
universities
university
University of Central Florida
USS Nathan Hale
USSR
veterans
Washington, D.C.
William Jefferson Blythe III
William Jefferson Clinton
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9d752cd3aa575d9fec8b61845098d41a.pdf
8029e7962c673e092163f97adfd6ad89
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Young, Mary Hughes
Interviewee
Levine, Lawrence "Larry" Paul
Location
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video recording
Duration
41 minutes and 6 seconds
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Lawrence Paul Levine
Alternative Title
Oral History, Levine
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Air Force
Description
An oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine (b. 1947), who enlisted in the U.S. Air Force (USAF) in August of 1966, just after being drafted into the U.S. Army. Levine was born in Rochester, New York, on June 8, 1947. He served in Europe during the Vietnam War, until he was discharged on August 31, 1970. Levine received a Good Conduct Medal for his service.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Mary Hughes Young on April 1, 2014. Interview topics include Levine's background, his enlistment in the Air Force and drafting into the U.S. Army, basic and advanced training, being stations in Europe, getting married voerseas, returning to the U.S. after being discharged, and his life as a civilian afterward.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:02:38 Draft and enlistment<br />0:06:42 Basic training at Lackland Air Force Base<br />0:10:06 Sharpshooting and career assignment<br />0:13:52 Advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base<br />0:21:16 Assignment in Europe<br />0:26:55 Relationships with other servicemen and assignments<br />0:30:15 Getting married overseas<br />0:31:09 Rank and discharge<br />0:33:30 Life after service<br />0:36:28 Treatment from civilians<br />0:37:29 How service affected civilian life<br />0:39:15 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine. Interview conducted by Mary Hughes Young at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/277/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014898</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 41-minute and 6-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Rochester, New York
Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island
U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, Providence, Rhode Island
Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas
Amarillo Air Force Base, Amarillo, Texas
McGuire Air Force Base, Burlington County, New Jersey
Rhein-Main Air Base, Germany
Shaw Air Force Base, Sumter, South Carolina
Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, New York
Creator
Levine, Larry
Young, Mary Hughes
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-04-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-04-01
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
353 MB
224 MB
Medium
41-minute and 6-second audio/video recording
28-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mary Hughes Young and Larry Levine and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Transcript
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>Recording.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Today [<em>clears throat</em>] is April the 1<sup>st</sup>[, 2014]. I am Mary Hughes Young, and I am interviewing Lawrence Paul Levine.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Who served in the U.S. Air Force [<em>sniffs</em>]. Um, This is part of the University of Central Floride—Florida’s Community Veterans History Project, and we’re recording this interview at University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Okay. Larry, tell me first about when and where you were born.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was born in Rochester, New York, in 1947.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did you live there for all of your educational years?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, primarily, yes. Yes. I, uh, graduated college in Rochester also, after the—after my service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, do you have brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. I have two brothers.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Two. So there were three of…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. There were three of us in the family.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where were you in the birth order?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, I’m the oldest.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>The oldest? Okay. What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, my father had a number of different jobs. Uh, He was a bread salesman for Thomas’ English Muffins for a while, and then worked for a supermarket chain as one of their managers of one of their stores. Um, my mother was pretty much of a stay-at home mom. Um, She became very si—very sick, um, at a very young age and—and passed away at a very young age also. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And how old were you when she passed away?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was, uh, 20.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>20? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>21.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Were any of your family members or extended members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. My father—my father was. He was in World War II. He, uh, was an in-flight radio operator in—at that time, was the Army Air Corps, uh, which then became the Air Force. Uh, in-flight radio operator and served over in India, going back from Karachi to Calcutta, India.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, tell me about your education before you went into the military.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I, um, graduated high school in 1964. Uh, was accepted to Brown University, um, in Providence, Rhode Island. [<em>clears throat</em>] Finished one year there, and then my mother became very ill, and I had to come back home, which led me into the next phase of my life of being in the—in the military. Um, so that was prior to me going into the service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, And why did you decide to go into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, uh, because I came back home and had to help the family out. Uh, during that time, it was the Vietnam War, obviously—back in the—in the [19]60s. Um, in all honestly, I was ultimately drafted.</p>
<p>Now, there was a[sic] interesting—very interesting story that leads up to that. Um, When I came back home, I went to work for the U.S. Customs Service. My background is primarily: I was going to school in business and accounting, and I was fortunate enough to get a job [<em>clears throat</em>] with the U.S. Bureau of Customs [and Border Protection] in Rochester. Uh, went to work for them full-time. Did a number of j—jobs for them, primarily in the accounting area, and also, uh, did a few clearances of planes and—and ships and that system, where I need to, in that particular area. But I worked in the, um, government, uh—in the state office building—actually, it was a Federal building. It wasn’t even a state. It was a Federal building, because it was U.S. Customs.</p>
<p>And, uh, the draft board was right downstairs from my offices. And I became very friendly with a number of the different people who worked in the draft board, and informed them of my situation: that, uh, I was eligible for the draft, because I wasn’t going to school full-time. I was going to school part-time. Uh, they had informed me at that particular time that, “No—no worries. No problems.” That, uh, I would be safe, because I knew everybody there. And low- and behold, before I knew it, my letter from Uncle Sam came and said I was drafted.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I went back to the [<em>laughs</em>]—to the, uh, draft board and said, “What happened here?” And their excuse was, “Oh, we’re sorry. It got by us,” and everything like that. So, um, in ess—in essence, I was drafted, but before I was drafted, I enlisted in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, and was this before the lottery was in effect?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. The lottery was in effect, if I’m not mistaken. Um, the—there was a lottery, and I had a pretty, pretty low lottery number.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Meaning that I was very eligible for the draft. Uh, I wasn’t going to Canada. I wasn’t going any place, but I was informed again by the draft board that I’d be safe. And, uh, low and behold, I wasn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Because of the work you were doing?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. It’s just that—because I knew people at the draft board, who said if they saw my name come up, they would pull it [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Okay. Well, how did you feel about being drafted then? Um, was it—was it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A big shock?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Shock. Uh, the first thing, obviously, that came to my mind, was: <em>Well, if you’re drafted, then you’re going into the Army. And if you go in the Army, you are going to carry a gun. If you carry a gun, you’re going to go to Vietnam.</em> So, uh, when that—when that happened, obviously, the family was very concerned about it. And, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so—so…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They didn’t want me to go. So I figured it would be best if I went into the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right. And so you signed up for the Air Force…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right after you were drafted?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And So your family was feeling</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Concerned about the situation too?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They were more concerned, obviously, during that whole period of time, but not as concerned if I allowed myself to be drafted in the Army.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Into the Army. Okay. How about your, uh peers? You friends or girlfriend? How did they feel about you going into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, my friends were kind of like, <em>Better you than me</em>, at that particular time. Uh, I’m sure most people realized that was not the greatest time in our history for the military. Most people were looked down on in going into the military. Uh, I had some tough experiences myself with that particular situation. Uh, my girlfriend, at the time, was pretty much—said, “If you are going into the military, then I’m not waiting around for you, so,” [<em>laughs</em>] “I’m—I’m gone.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>As if you had a choice, right? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. As if I had a choice. Right. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, well, now you’re in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where did you do your basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. I was there in August of 1966.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, uh, what were your expectations of— being in the, uh—in basic training? Did you—did you have any idea of what was going—what it was going to be like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. I had an idea, but I didn’t—I didn’t think it would be as bad as it really was. Uh, I was in good shape at the time, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Weighed a lot less than I do now. And, um, expected it to be a little different, uh, physically and mentally. Uh, The aspects of basic training are obviously to get you in a situation to where you are able to accept orders, and you’re able to—be able to do things when they’re—when you’re told to do them. And, uh, I accepted that without any problem. It’s just—there’s a little more physical on my body than I had anticipated.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. The marching…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was a typical day like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>The typical day is we get up at like five in the morning—4:30-5 o’clock in the morning, and we’d have to make our bunks and get everything straightened away for the day. We go to me—the mess hall, where we had breakfast. And that was one of the things that surprised me, because we just didn’t take our time in—in being able to eat breakfast. We were given a certain amount of time to get in line, eat our breakfast, and get ready to go outside. It was a lot shorter than I had anticipated. So, uh, my eating habits had to change very quickly, because of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, after that, we would do either calisthenics or marching. Um, go to the gun range, which kind of surprised me, because I didn’t think I would be shooting a gun. Uh, had qualified in the—in the gun range.</p>
<p>And had different classes on just general military, um—you know, the way of life of a—of a person in the military. Uh, Things—how to handle yourself, how to be able to, uh, you know, again, take orders, and anything that had to do with the military. Military history, all of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And this—how long was your basic training? How many weeks?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, wow. You see, I—that—I, uh—I want to say eight weeks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Eight weeks? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it might be a little bit longer than that. I mean, that’s 40—what? 40—safe[sic] —48 years ago. And [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[inaudible]. I really didn’t wanna do any…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not for everybody[?].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Research on that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You know there’s an end to it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not gonna be forever.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s absolutely correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what were your instructors like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] I thought the meanest people in the world, okay? They didn’t take any—they didn’t take anything from anybody.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, which is what they were supposed to do. You were supposed to be there to listen to them. Them—they were, um, NCOs [non-commissioned officers], which is, uh, the equivalents of sergeants, okay? They were not officers, although the heads—some different, um, sections were—were officers—captains and—and, uh, lieutenants and that. But, um, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I realized after a while, that they were doing their job, and that if they were soft on us, and if we became—a situation, which we got involved in, we couldn’t be soft either. So the, um—they did their job, and I think they did it—looking back on it, I think they did a good job on ‘em.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, let’s back up a minute.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You said you didn’t think you’d have to shoot a gun</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>But you did.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And I think I noticed on your paper that you were, uh, a sharpshooter.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. I surprised myself, to be honest with you.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Had you ever shot a gun before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You adapted to that well.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I adapted to it. Yeah. Well…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Which again, kind of concerned me. In effect, if I’m a sharpshooter, they might do something with me, other than what I wanted to do [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you receive, uh, any advanced, specialized training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not at that time. No. When we, uh—Just To—to go back a little bit, uh, historically, what led up to this: when I enlisted in the—in the Air Force—and I— don’t mean to take away what you’re—you—the questions you are asking—uh, I had to take a battery of tests…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>To determine where I was best fit for the Air Force. Uh, and, at that time, I was—I—I actually scored highest in the administrative area. It was like electronics, administrative, mechanical, uh—those I think—and—and just basic—basic air. So I scored highest in administrative, which I assumed that I would, because that was pretty much my background and what I wanted to do.</p>
<p>However, at the time that I went in, and—there were no openings in the administrative field. So I said, “Well, if you don’t have anything in the administrative area, send me home. I don’t—I don’t need to come then.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They said, “No. that doesn’t work that way, okay? Now, you’re going to be in the electronics field.” I said, “Okay. Electronics.” “Yeah. You know, putting wires together and all this kind of stuff. Wherever you’re needed in electronics.” You know, that’s a wide area, obviously. I said, “Okay.” and they gave me another battery of tests, and one of the tests was called the Ishihara [Color] Test—and I’m not sure if you’re fa—familiar with that? That’s the one where they have the numbers that are embedded in the different colors, so that if you’re looking at it, it is to determine if you are colorblind or not.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I really botched that up big time. I think I only got two numbers out of all of them that they showed me. I just couldn’t pick out the different numbers in the blocks of different colors. So they sat back and they said “Well, hm. If you can’t pick out the numbers, how are you going to put a red wire together with a green wire or with a blue wire, and make sure it’s running properly? So you can’t go into electronics.” So I said, “Good. Send me home.” They said, “No. it doesn’t work that way.”</p>
<p>I said, “Well, how about administrative again?” “No. we still don’t have any openings.” “Okay. So now what?” “Well, we’re going to give you your choice of what you want to do, Okay? This is the career that you’re going to have in the Air Force.” One: You can become a cook, okay? Number two: you can become a parachute rigger, okay? Putting together the parachutes for the pilots and [inaudible]. Three: you can be an air policeman, because you did qualify that [inaudible]. Or four: you can be an airframe repair specialist.</p>
<p>So I sat back and I thought, <em>Well, I could kill everybody with my cooking</em>, because I couldn’t cook very well, okay? <em>If I became a parachute rigger, god forbid if a parachute didn’t open when the pilot jumped out of the plane or whatever[?], I’d probably kill somebody that way. </em>Air police? I says[sic], <em>Nah. I’m not big enough to be a good air </em>policeman, you know? I could direct traffic, but that would probably be all that I could do. So that left me with airframe repair, okay? So that’s where we’re back—that’s where—that’s a little bit about the background on my next point after basic training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So in basic training, you get your assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you were assigned to be an air…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Airframe Repair.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe Repair? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s exactly correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So that’s working on the outside of the airplane.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, It could be the inside too.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Anything to do with the frame of an airplane?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay, but, um—so where were you assigned after basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was assigned after basic training to advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base—Texas also. I really didn’t leave Texas for my basic training and my advance training. And this was strictly was airframe repair now.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay? This was how—to teach me how to be, uh, an airframe repairman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I have two left hands, so you can imagine</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>What it was like to be in Airframe Repair School [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And—so how long where you in</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Six months, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Six months? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Almost six months. It was—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And What was your impression of this a—assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I thought it would be just going to school, But unfortunately, it wasn’t. It was an extension of the basic training, only, to be honest with you, worse. First of all, the weather in Amarillo, Texas, was horrible. I was there during the wintertime, and it was cold and freezing, and we were doing calisthenics outside and we were running, and we were marching. And I said, <em>This isn’t supposed to be like this.</em> <em>This is like I’m supposed to learn how to work on airplanes, not</em> [<em>laughs</em>]—<em>not</em>—I said, “This was already done in basic training. Why do I—why do I gotta do that again?” “No, no, no.” And actually, they—they called them “TIs”—technical instructors—were worse in—in Airframe Repair School than they were in basic training. They were harder on us in—in, uh—in school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How many hours would you actually be in—in training for repairs?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>For repairs? It was about six to eight hours a day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So a long day?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was just on the repair. Just on airframe repairs. That wasn’t—again, the calisthenics or the marching and everything else. So it was a full day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did it start early…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Like in basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not as early, but pretty close.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Pretty close? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did your duties entail as an airframe worker?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, there’s another story that goes along with that, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Tell it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh,Well, in—in basic airframe repair, you do anything from sheet metal work to fiber glassing to, umm anything that has to do, again, with—with the frame. Ma—uh, making sure that the—that the actual plane itself is in good shape to fly, okay? From a sheet metal standpoint, and not the electronics standpoint. Obviously, that’s in another area.</p>
<p>But, uh—this—this, again, is a—is another story. I had two left hands, as—as I had mentioned. Uh, I couldn’t hit a hammer—nail with a hammer great, and they’re putting me on working on airplanes. Well, each part of the course was a different thing you did with an—with the airframe. Riveting was one area, sheet met—cutting out certain, uh, pieces on the plane was another area.</p>
<p>Uh, one of the areas that they had, they called them “blocks.” each one was a separate block, and what you did was you learned as part—as in the individual blocks was, uh, fiber glassing, okay? And how to fiberglass, how to use fiberglass, and how to be able to mold it on a plane were necessary things like that. I wish you could’ve seen me doing the fiberglass work. You’d—it’d—it’s a real comedy. It was a real comedy, a real joke.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was the, uh, difficulty in—in doing that? I don’t—I haven’t worked with fiberglass.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it’s just mixing—mixing the ras—the resin together…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So it’s the right consistency. Being able to lay out the sheets of fiberglass on there, and smooth it over, sand it down. All of these different areas are part of the—are part of the fiberglass work, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So that—that—that’s—that was part of it. That was one of the blocks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Alright. And there were other things, like riveting classes?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong> How to use a rivet gun properly. Um, All different types—all different of things on—on, Again, using sheet metal, and using—and repairing aircraft.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did you like best about that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Nothing [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Nothing? Okay. So you kind of felt like you were a...</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Round peg…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>In a square hole?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly. I was not in the proper location.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And unfortunately, the Air Force didn’t realize at the time, okay? They put me through it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Were your instructors, um, understanding? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Patient? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They pretty—they were pretty understanding, with the exception of the one from the fiberglass area, because, uh, I ultimately did not pass the test to move on to the next phase of the Airframe Repair School. So I actually had to take a complete week all over—or, em, two weeks, I believe, or three weeks. I had to take that all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>All the fiberglass work?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The fiberglass portion. And the other ones I had passed…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But the fiberglass portion, I had a very difficult time with, and, uh, I had to take that part of the program all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And then you passed it?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So now are you ready for the next, uh—for your next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, the reason—now, I was part of a group of students. My class, I think, was like 12 or 14 students in my class. Because I had failed the test, they moved on to the next phase, I had to wait until the next class came along to pick up with them, and to begin the fiberglass portion all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Which I did. Uh, I think I had to wait a week before the next class came to the point that they were going to do the fiberglass…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. I see.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Block. So I waved goodbye to all of my fellow students. They had gone—they had gone on to the next phase, and started it, and started the next group. Which a second time I did pass, okay? So I finished and graduated tech school, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So you only had to wait behind two weeks, and then do you catch up with your class again?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Then I’m involved with this next…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Your [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>New class. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Did you go through all the training you did before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. No. I just picked it up from the fiberglass portion. I’m not sure if it was the third block or the second block. I really don’t remember.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But then I just proceeded on with that class. Now, as they had finished block one and block two…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And they went into fiber glassing. I had finished one and two, and started in with them as part of my new class, and we continued on together.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I had to meet all new students, and—and get involved with the new class.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Can you describe an event that wasn’t typical in this particular time of your training? You’re in the six months training now. Is there anything that happened that wasn’t typical of an everyday experience or—that you can think of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Not really. No. It was just pretty much—cou—can’t wait to get out and get an assignment type of situation. And, um, I—Like I said, I did the very best I can. I knew I had no choice, and, uh, I was able to pass and continue on. But it was pretty much the same routine. The only difference that we had was that we had, uh, leave on the weekends, and we were able to go into Amarillo, which There’s not much there. So we did have leave—we did have leave time then. It wasn’t like a seven days a week type of training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.So not really anything memoral—memorable during this time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So at six—when you finished that six-month training…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What happened then?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>‘Nother interesting point. I guess—I guess I had more interesting points than I thought I did. When I, um, came out of my next—with my new class, my previous class had gone on. And of course. they graduated from the technical school before I did. They all got their orders, and the entire class got orders for Vietnam, okay? So if I was in that class, I would have ended up going to Vietnam, at the time. My situation was, when I graduated and I saw my orders posted, I got sent to Europe [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s interesting</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It is. It was lu—very lucky. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>At that point, you weren’t too [inaudible] —too very sorry that you weren’t very adept to…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Not really. But of course, you know, that can change—that can change at any time also. But, uh, quite a relief on my family’s part, to say the least.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, It—it was—it was very, [<em>laughs</em>] very interesting time, believe me. So I was sent to Europe, uh, in what they called a “TDY outfit,” which was temporary duty assignments. Now, I was assigned to work on a [McDonnell Douglas] F-4 [Phantom II] aircraft. they called it the “phantom jet.” I worked on [McDonnell] F-101s [Voodoo], [Republic F-]105s [Thunderchief], uh, various different types of programs.</p>
<p>My basic job was to work on the outboard tanks and pylons. The pylons were, uh, the apparatus that held the bomb racks on. So we were working on putting on bomb racks on the different types of aircraft, and they would then go over to Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Now…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So you were specialized in your duties?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Yes. We were—we became specialized in our duties. Now, the government, at the time—again, we were set up as a temporary duty assignment. We had—had to go from base to base to work on these different aircraft. The government thought that it would be cheaper for us to travel in groups and work on these tanks and pylons, because the point of the—with these jets are: they had the jettison their outboard tanks and their pylon or bomb racks when they took off after their bombing runs. Because if they kept those on, it would add weight to the plane itself, in which case, they couldn’t get away—get away as quick, uh, without them. So they were continuously jettisoning these, and when they would come back to—to Europe, we’d have to refit them with new ones, and make—and—and get them all set up for them to go out again. Even though most of them were based right in Vietnam or Thailand and that[?], um, they still came for—for, uh, overall maintenance back to the, uh—back to Europe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where in Europe were you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. I was in, uh, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Libya, England, Spain, and my home base was in Germany, okay? That’s where we worked out of. We worked out of Rhein-Main [Air Base], Germany, in, uh, Frankfurt [am Main, Hesse, Germany], okay? So that’s where my main outfit was. It was Detachment 51.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And that’s[sic] the ones you graduated with?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, some—Most of them—most of them did go on to that, but I think there were about six or seven that went to different, uh— areas, okay?</p>
<p>Uh, that’s another [<em>laughs</em>]—again, that’s another interesting point. Uh, When I flew over from, uh, New Jersey—McGuire Air Force Base. I left out of McGuire Air Force Base. It’s—it’s a funny story. There were like three planes lined up taking all of us over to Europe. There were two commercial airliners, and then there was what they called a “C-141 Galaxy.” And I said, “Oh, I’m going to go over to Europe in a nice, uh, airliner,” and I ended up going over on a military aircraft, sitting in the seats on the sides [<em>laughs</em>]. So it was kind of a bumpy ride over there.</p>
<p>But when I landed, my orders were to catch up with my unit in what they called—in a place called Chaumont[, Haute-Marne], France, okay? So I landed at Rhein-Main Air Force Base, Germany, caught a shuttle, uh—a military shuttle. Uh, it wasn’t a plane. It was a bus, alright? Down to Chaumont, France. Caught up with my, eh—with my group down there, okay? With my detachment down there. And I noticed as I went into—to the offices to report in, that they’re packing up everything. And I went and signed in, and I said to the desk sergeant or whatever his name was, “What—what’s going on,” okay? “I was told to report here.” They said, “Well, we’re leaving.” I said, “Why are you leaving?” Well, at that time, France was not in the best, you know, of friends with the—with the United States. And, uh, this is part of the NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] Pact, and we were—we were leaving out of France. And I said, “Oh,” I said, “So we’re not going to stay in France?” “No.” “Well, where are we going?” He said, “Rhein-Main Air Force Base in Germany.” I said, “Wait a minute. I just came from there.” [<em>laughs</em>] I said, “I just took a bus and came from Rhein-Main.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Going to your official[?] [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>“Why didn’t anybody tell—why didn’t anybody tell me that I was going to go back to—I would never have left I would have waited for ya there.” Well, as it turned out, we went—we went back to Rhein-Main, and, um, set up shop there, and, uh, proceeded to travel all over Europe, and—and working on these tanks and pylons and—and getting them set, so that they—we can put ‘em on the planes, and they can take off.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you have a schedule for where you would be and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. We had orders every—every time. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how did that work? Or—or did you not know ahead of time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, when we finished one assignment, we’d come back for a while, and, uh, work around…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Always back to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Back to Germany. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And then get our—get our next assignment when we were told to go out…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was your relationship with the oth—other service personnel that you worked directly with on the pylons?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, we, uh—we had a good relationship. I mean, we were a unit. We pretty much hung around together. Uh, when we had time, we played softball, uh, on—in a league on base. And again, I was a lot, a lot thinner [<em>laughs</em>] back then. And, uh, we had—we had a good time. I mean, it was pretty much a regular eight-hour day, okay? Uh, if—whether or not it was at the—at the base that we were at, or at our home base in Germany.</p>
<p>There was—every once in a while, we had assignments. Outside of our unit, was the, uh, uh Boeing 707—I think it was, um, at the time. It was the General of the Air Force’s plane, uh, of Europe</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, [inaudible]. It was the General’s plane—his personal plane—was out there. Actually, come to think of it now, it was the [Boeing] KC-135 [Stratotanker] —was—which was an inflight re-fueler, where those, you know—the planes come up to it, and they drop the boom in that. Well, this was a converted KC-135 for the General. Really nice, nice plane. And we had work on that every once in a while, changing some things, and, you know, making sure that everything was okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were, uh, at base, or on these assignments, were you always busy? Or were there times that you didn’t—were waiting for the next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, No. We were busy most of the time. We were busy most of the time. I mean, once again, it was pretty much and eight-hour day, and when we were done, we had—we were free to do whatever we wanted. It was just, uh, like a normal job, except we worked [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. But there wasn’t a lot of just sit around and wait?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No, no, no, no.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. How did you stay in touch with your family and friends back home?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, at that time, I was—there—there was no such thing as Skype, or, uh, e-mail, and things like that. So it was pretty much by letter. Just by regular letter. Sna—snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, do you believe you were well-trained for your assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>As best as they could, considering what they had to deal with [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did you always have the equipment and the supplies that you needed…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>To do your job?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That—that we had no trouble—we had no trouble with.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you mentioned you played softball.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How else did you entertain yourself when you weren’t on duty?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Well, I’d say drink [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, Just going to different, uh—go to the USO [United Service Organization] over there, and saw stag shows, and had one—one or two beers—four or five.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was there a USO show that was particularly memorable?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The Platters. The original Platters were there. And, um, I—I liked them from the beginning, and I was very fortunate to meet ‘em, and, uh, listen—they put on a great show.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.Was that in Germany? Or in one of your other assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. That was in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It was in Germany [<em>sniffs</em>]. But When I—I was in Spain, uh, over one of the New Year’s [Eve]. I was in, uh, Madrid, Spain, and got and to see a flamenco show there. A real, real flamenco show, which was pretty good.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you take advantage of any, uh, sightseeing, or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Or tours…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. That would be entertaining [inaudible]</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, um, I got married while—while I was overseas.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And my wife was in the States. She was a—she was an American. She was German—born German, but, um, I married—I got married. And she was able to come over to Europe and get a job in Germany, while I was gone. Fortunately enough, she, um, uh spoke German. So she was able to get around the economy very nicely while I was gone, because I was gone most of the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it was nice to have her over there. And when—when I was back there, we were able to travel around.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, nice.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>We were able to go to Holland,<a title="">[1]</a> and, uh, visit a lot of Germany. Go around—go around Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s a—that’s very, uh—very nice thing to have happened…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>While you’re</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Young, and, uh—and not a lot of money…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You cantravel around on…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Uncle Sam’s dime.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, when were you—tell me about your ranking and how that—and how you…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, actually, I became a sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up a staff sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, pardon me?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up as a staff sergeant. I saw on your…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. You start off as a—tell me how that works.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, you just go in as an airman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And then, at that time, it was, um, second class, first class, and sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, I think I mis—misstated. Um, I was three stripes, which was considered a sergeant at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Four stripes is a staff sergeant, so…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I made three. If I had reenlisted, I probably would have gotten a fourth stripe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Alright. So you ended up as a sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, um, when were you discharged from the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>August of 1970. When I rotated back from the States, I, uh, was stationed in, uh, Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter, South Carolina, which was about 7-8 months. So I lived in South Carolina, outside of Columbia.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I think it was 7-8 months. Something like that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Seven—okay. Um, how did you feel once you were out of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Relieved. Um, Glad I did what I did. Uh, kind of—Kind of upset as to what was going on, while I was in the military, back home with the individual tour—“pacifists,” I guess you call them—or against the war in Vietnam. I mean, I was not all in favor of what was going on, but, uh, when I did come home on leave at one time, uh, it was not ver— it was not a very good situation. I mean, we were—for all intents and purposes, we were spat at, at the airports, when we walked through. Nobody said, “Thank you for your service.” And, uh, they just didn’t like it. They didn’t like anybody in the military, or anybody in uniform. So that—that kind of part was tough.</p>
<p>Um, Again, I was relieved. But on the other hand, I felt that all of my friends—I was the only one of all my friends back in Rochester. I was the only one to go into the military, and felt that I was four years behind them in education and—and, um—and just getting on with my life. So, you know, it—both sides. I felt good with serving, but on the other hand, I felt that I lost some time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, once you were out, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] Another good, interesting situation. Uh, when I got out of the service, my wife became pregnant [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, it was probably from the week I got discharged [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>She—she got pregnant. In which case, if she got pregnant while we were in the military, the government would have paid for it. If she had given birth while I was in, the military would have paid for it.</p>
<p>But I, uh—when I got out of the service, my main goal was to get back to school. I wanted to get my degree in accounting and—and go on from there. But a little s—s—little turn of events when your wife becomes pregnant. Going to day school is pretty difficult. So I took a job. um, and again, I got out in August, and, uh, school was going to start in September, but I was gonna take—go to night school, okay? And—and get a job during the day. But until that time started, I went to work at McDonald’s, uh, slinging hamburgers. See, eh, eh, my memory’s coming back. I was going to go to day school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I wasn’t going to enroll until September, but I needed some—to get some income coming in, uh, for my wife and that. So I went to work at McDonald’s slinging hamburgers, which was not a great experience. Because here’s an older gentleman, who’s, uh, slinging hamburgers with a bunch of teenagers, and looking at me, thinking, <em>Boy, he must be a real loser if he’s doing this</em>, not knowing the situation. But I got the job in telling ‘em that I was going to—I wanted to go to school training to become a manager at McDonald’s. This is how I got the job. And, uh, the owner of the place said, “Okay.” He said, “But you—but in order to do that, you have to learn all the different areas of—of McDonald’s.” French fries, working on the grill, the clean-up, the whole bit. . I said, “Okay.” Well, that lasted about a week—week and a half—and I just couldn’t handle it anymore. I would come home smelling terrible from all the fat that was in the French fries. So that lasted maybe a week—week and a half.</p>
<p>But we managed. Um, and I did start going to school, but things got to a point where I just needed to get money. So I went—I was going back to night school. I went to night school, and got a job. Uh, at that time, [<em>sniffs</em>] I was working, I believe, at one of the local manufacturing companies in their finance department. I was working in their cost accounting department. Even though I didn’t have a degree, they—they put me on as—in a lower level type of position. But it was bringing in income, and I—I was able to go to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where was this, Larry?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Rochester Institute of Technology.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, you were back in…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Back in New York<strong>.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was back in Rochester. I went back to New York.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Were you—were there any G.I.<a title="">[2]</a> benefits</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That you were able to take advantage of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Absolutely. I was on the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[3]</a> Helped me pay for my schooling. Yes. Definitely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And so you’re working in the daytime and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And going to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, we talked about how you were treated…</p>
<p>[<em>background noise</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you came home, and that, um, there was, um, uh, disrespect…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Dor you as a soldier. Now…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was that set across the board every time you came home on leave? Or, uh, did you notice that when you would go to New York? Or when you would go—when you came back to South Carolina? Was there a difference in the way the local people treated you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No. Not that I can remember. It was just an area that they didn’t go out of their way to—to do anything. More like they were trying to ignore us, then, um—like we were the—the plague.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And just no—no respect. No respect for anyone. And that’s what makes me feel so good now is that you’re seeing these, uh, individuals in the military, and people are giving them respect and thanking them for their service. So that’s one of the areas where I—I felt cheated out of also—is not getting the respect and that, because it was four years of my life, and that’s a long time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It is a long time, especially at that age.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did your military experience affect your civilian life in any way?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I became more appreciative of life. Um, More appreciative of the things that I—that I was able to get, uh, of—of my family at the time. Because being away from them most of the—now fortunately, like I said, my wife was able to come with—to come with me over to Europe, but, uh, I missed my brothers and my—and my father. My mother had passed away prior to that, so, uh—but, yeah. Uh, a lot of things, uh—a lot of things that I was more appreciative of, at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Do you think that you were more serious in your education than you would have been as a 20…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Most definitely. Most definitely. That’s a very good point. I looked at my education totally different. Uh, more—I—I was more involved with history. Um, I—I didn’t feel at the time—you see, there was a lot—a lot difference in going to school and being, pretty much, made to go to school, or that—that was the norm. You—you went to high school. You finished high school. You went to college and then you went on from there.</p>
<p>And because of the interruption, I looked at it from a different stand point that, you know, this is an opportunity. This is a great opportunity, and, uh, the government is helping me with this opportunity, through the G.I. Bill. I’m going to take full advantage of it. So I took full courses. And if anybody knows about Rochester, New York, and going to school at night in Rochester, New York, in the middle of winter is not easy. Okay. It was cold. It was freezing. It was snowing. But, uh, I had a family to support, and I wanted to be able to get my education, so Luckily, I was able to complete it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Looking back on it all, can you describe about how you feel about your service? You said that you were glad you did it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And anything else you want to add to that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Other—other than the fact that, um, I personally think that it makes a—a person better going into the military. And I for one, feel that it should be mandatory, because there’s a lot of kids that are going to—to education and that, because they don’t know what else to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so you feel it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And I think when they say it—when they say…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Gives them time to mature and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I’m sorry. What’s that?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It gives them time to mature…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A little about the world and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to grow up.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn some discipline [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s the other area. That’s the other area. Like I said, so many don’t know what they want to do with themselves, and they end up in the military. Although they didn’t give me the opportunity to go in the direction that I wanted to. It certainly opened up my eyes to a lot of things. And one is independence. You know, being independent, being able to do things on your own, uh, washing your own clothes, making your own bed, uh, choosing the right things to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you become more adept to working with your hands?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I wish I could say yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Some things you just can’t learn.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Some things that you—you have a difficult time doing. That’s correct. Um, I think I’m a little better with a hammer and nails now than I was. I wouldn’t go as far as work with any kind of sheet metal or anything, because I’m sure I would cut my fingers up in shreds, but Yeah. I think I’m a little bit better. I can—I can…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Well, Larry, I thank you for your service. And I thank you for this—for you doing this…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it was a pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>With us.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Very enjoyable. Very enjoyable.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, I enjoyed talking with you about it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Thank you. Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Formally called The Netherlands.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Government Issue or General Issue.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>
accounting
advanced training
Airframe Repair School
airframe repair specialists
airframe repairman
airframe repairmen
airplanes
Amarill, Texas
Amarillo AFB
Amarillo Air Force Base
anti-war movement
basic training
Boeing 707
Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker
Brown University
BU
Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
Burlington County, New Jersey
C-141 Galaxy
colorblindness
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
Custom Service
CVHP
Detachment 51
draft board
draft lottery
drafts
education
enlistment
Europe
F-101
F-105
F-4
fast food restaurants
fiber glassing
fiberglass
firearms
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
G.I. Bill
Germany
Good Conduct Medal
gun ranges
guns
instructors
Ishihara Color Test
jet
jet fighter
jets
KC-135
Lackland AFB
Lackland Air Force Base
Larry Levine
Lawrence Paul Levin
marching
marriages
Mary Hughes Young
McDonald's
McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II
McDonnell F-101 Voodoo
Mcguire AFB
Mcguire Air Force Base
metal
military draft
military education
military training
pacifism
pacifists
peace movement
phantom jets
planes
protests
Providence, Rhode Island
pylon
Republic F-105 Thunderchief
Rhein-Main AB
Rhein-Main Air Base
RIT
riveting
Rochester Institute of Technology
Rochester, New York
San Antonio, Texas
Selective Service System
Sergeant
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
sharpshooters
sharpshooting
Shaw AFB
Shaw Air Force Base
sheet metal
Staff Sergeant
Sumter, South Carolina
TDY
temporary duty
The Platters
TI
training
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Air Force in Europe
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Air Corps
U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
U.S. Customs Service
United Service Organization
USAFE
USO
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/99f982aa4276b0be0b4f9b69c9e7085a.pdf
3533161dc69dab00593f352cd8d77806
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
McKinney, Roy
Interviewee
Ekern, Sharon
Location
Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
Duration
20 minutes and 14 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
64kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Sharon L. Ekern
Alternative Title
Oral History, Ekern
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Marine Corps
Description
An oral history interview of Sharon Ekern, who served in the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida (UCF) with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. This interview was conducted by Roy McKinney at UCF on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include Ekern's family life, her education, enlistment in the Marines, boot camp, advanced training, her first duty station, the San Diego Recruit Depot, Parris Island, the Cold War, being assigned to Orlando, serving as a female Marine, the Tailhook Scandal, Camp Smith, her awards and medals, life after service, her employment at UCF, and being an expert markswoman.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:40 Family life<br />0:01:05 Family in the Military<br />0:01:19 Education before joining the Marine Corps<br />0:01:45 Reason for enlistment in the Marines <br />0:02:30 Family reaction to enlistment<br />0:02:49 Boot camp<br />0:03:42 View of instructors - then and now<br />0:04:26 Most memorable experience in boot camp<br />0:04:59 Being a woman in boot camp<br />0:05:20 Advanced training<br />0:06:01 First duty station<br />0:06:24 Role at first duty station<br />0:06:37 Typical day at first duty station<br />0:07:20 Life at San Diego Recruit Depot<br />0:08:00 How Parris Island compared to San Diego<br />0:08:20 Cold War's effect on Military life<br />0:08:59 Entertainment in the Military<br />0:09:55 Assignment in Orlando<br />0:11:10 Being a woman in the Marine Corps/ "Tailhook"<br />0:12:55 Memorable moments at Camp Smith<br />0:14:07 Leaving the Military<br />0:14:58 Reason for leaving the Marines rather than applying to Officer Program<br />0:15:31 Highest rank in the Marines<br />0:15:51 Awards and medals<br />0:16:33 Life after the Marines<br />0:17:04 Joining UCF<br />0:17:04 Contracting and purchasing<br />0:17:50 Contact with Marines<br />0:18:06 Military influence on life<br />0:18:37 Utilizing military experience with UCF<br />0:19:15 Expert marksmanship
Abstract
Oral history interview of Sharon Ekern. Interview conducted by Roy McKinney in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>.
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 20-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Albany, Georgia
Camp H. M. Smith, Aiea, Hawaii
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, North Carolina
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, San Diego, California
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, Port Royal, South Carolina
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Ekern, Sharon L.
McKinney, Roy
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/pdf
Extent
599 MB
164 KB
Medium
20-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Roy McKinney and Sharon L. Ekern and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cravero, Geoffrey
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Pawelczyk, J. 2014. "<a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5611524379" target="_blank">Constructing American Female War Veterans' Military Identity in the Context of Interviews</a>." <em>Women and Language</em>: WL. 37, no. 1: 87-112.
Chema, J. Richard. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/227212744" target="_blank"><em>Arresting Tailhook The Prosecution of Sexual Harassment in the Military</em></a><em>. Thesis (LL. M.)--Judge Advocate General's School, United States Army, 1993, 1993.</em>
Browne, Kingsley R. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795374552" target="_blank"><em>Military Sex Scandals from Tailhook to the Present: The Cure Can Be Worse than the Disease</em></a>. Duke Journal of Gender Law & Policy. Duke University School of Law, 2007.
Biank, Tanya. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795168521" target="_blank"><em>Undaunted: The Real Story of America's Servicewomen in Today's Military</em></a>. New York, N.Y.: NAL Caliber, 2013.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Today is the 13<sup>th</sup> of November, 2014. My name is Roy McKinney and we are interviewing Dr. Sharon [L.] Ekern. She served in the United States Marine Corps from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. I am interviewing Dr. Sharon Ekern as part of the University of Central Florida’s Community Veterans History Project. This interview is being conducted in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Union, South Carolina. September 18<sup>th,</sup> 1962.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My dad retired from AT&T, and my mom, um, who has been passed away for—gosh—uh, 28 years today, as a matter of fact. She worked for the attorney general of South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How big was your family growing up?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was my parents and two sisters.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were any of your family members in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yes. Um, my stepfather was full time National Guard. My uncle is a retired Navy captain, and I have a couple other uncles who served in the Air Force and Navy.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What type of education did you have before entering the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I went to a small, um, junior college, right out of high school, and was there for two semesters. So I had basically one year of college.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Was there any focus of your studies while there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No, not really.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Uh, why did you decide to enlist in the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I had decided during that second semester that I wasn’t ready for college at that time, and I had moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where my grandparents had retired, and there was an Air Force Base there. Uh, so I had met some Air Force friends and decided at that point that I would join the Air Force. And then when I went to MEPs [United States Military Entrance Processing Command] to do my processing, they couldn’t take me until like maybe the following year. It was maybe nine months, and I wanted to leave in the fall when my friends would be going back to school. So, um, I basically—when I got—when I was there at MEPs, I told them to take me to see the Marines. That—I didn’t want to go in the Army. I didn’t like the uniform that the Navy wore. So...</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did your family relac—react to you enlisting?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Eh, well, they had just got used to the idea of me joining the Air Force, so when I came home and told them I was going in to the Marines, Um, it took a little while, especially for my mother and grandmother to get used to that idea.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And where did you go to boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Parris Island, South Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel when you entered boot camp and the whole process of going through—just getting there and your first reactions?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was scared to death. Um, my processing station MEPs was in Colombia, South Carolina. And it wasn’t that—maybe two hours or so. We shipped out on a bus to Parris Island, and I was the only female on the bus. and, um, the person at MEPs had, um, gi—given my package to somebody, uh—to one of the guys that was also, uh, sh—shipping out that day, and he got off the bus with my information with this drill instructor just, you know—he came on the bus and was yelling at them get on the yellow footprints. And then I had to get off the bus and go—and go tell him, you know, that somebody had my package. So I was scared to death.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you feel about you instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Um, how I felt about them now and how I felt about them then is probably different. Um…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How about both?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was—they kind of played different roles. There was one who was more like the motherly type, and one who was just downright mean, and the other one, who was kind of in between. Um, I was really scared of the one that was just mean, you know? I—I’ve actually been in contact recently with our senior drill instructor on Facebook, so it has been kind of nice, um, you know, touching base with her again. She retired—gosh—after—I don’t know—maybe 25 years in the Marine Corps, there at Parris Island. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So what was your most memorable experience at boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>At boot camp? Gosh. Um, probably the physical training. I, you know—I’ve always been, um—well, probably, more so since. I’ve gotten out. I’ve been athletic, but I don’t know that I was totally prepared when I went in, so that was difficult—the ph—the physical training. So that was probably one of my more memorable.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did being a woman affect you in boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Well, in the Marines, we’re totally separate. I know in some of the, um—maybe all of the other branches—they train together, but we don’t. We’re a separate battalion and, uh, we have no contact with the men. So we were all just together.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you receive any advanced training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I went to several schools. Um, I went to a school right out of boot camp in Albany, Georgia. Um, then I went to my first duty station in San Diego. And, I believe, it was after—yeah. It was—it was after I—no. Maybe it wasn’t San Diego—where I went to another, um, supply school at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And then after I came to Orlando, I went into the contracting and purchasing field and went to several schools. They were at Lowry Air Force Base, because, at the time, the Marines didn’t have a contracting school so we went to the Air—Air Force schools.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>So where were you stationed after you were done with training?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>My first duty station was the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. And then, from there I came here to Orlando to the, uh, recruiting headquarters. I was not a recruiter. I did supply, but I—I was at headquarters. And then from there, I went to Camp [H. M.] Smith in [Aiea,] Hawaii.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your assignment or job while you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I started out in supply and, like I said at some point, uh, in my career, I changed to contracts and purchasing.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />And, uh, what was a typical day like for you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>We usually got—usually PT [physical training] was, you know, the first thing we did at least three days a week, if not more. Um, you know, we’d have—PT was around six A.M. and then have to be at work at 7:30. Most days were like typical work day. You know, you went to work, you had your lunch—you know, you got off at a certain time. There were other days when there might be inspections or parades or, you know, other things that might be going on. But ordinarily it was like a typical work day.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Can you describe what it was like working at the Marine—Marine Corps Recruitment Depot at Parris Island?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, I didn’t work there. That’s where—that’s where I received recruit training.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Okay. Can you describe what it was like working at San Dieg—the depot in San Diego?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. It was—I mean—San Diego, of course, is beautiful. And, um, it was good. Um, out there they only trained male Marines. They don’t—they don’t train any women Marines out there, but, um, it was, uh—I think it was a—you know, it was a good first duty station, uh, working with all of the recruits and, um, doing the different, you know, jobs that were assigned to me at the time. And then I worked for a colonel, just in his office, for a good bit of my time there.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the environments of Parris Island and San Diego compare?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, well, I mean—it was two totally different experiences. At Parris Island, I was a recruit, you know. I was going through recruit training and at MCRD [Marine Corps Recruit Depot]. I was—I was basically working there. I was a Marine at that point. So totally different experiences.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did the Cold War affect everyday life in the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I would say, at least for me and my job, um, you know, it di—didn’t have a big effect. We basically did what we were, you know, assigned to do at, um—at the recruit depot. It was training Marines at the, uh, MCRD—I mean, at, um, the recruiting headquarters here, it was enlisting Marines. So, um, in my everyday job, I wouldn’t say it had a big effect.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How would you entertain yourselves, uh, during your service?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, um, hmm. Let me think back on that. Uh, like I said, it was—since I wasn’t a—a grunt, per se, you know, um, I left and I went home most days, unless there was something special going on, or we were out in the field, or had some special training. So, you know, I think we did pretty much what everybody would do. When I was in, um—here at the recruit station, I had a child. So, you know, I had a family just like most people and I did live in base housing. So it was—it’s a different community, Um—a different culture. But I would say we did what most people would do.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Why were you assigned to the recruitment headquarters in Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I’m not exactly sure. Uh—we have what’s called a “monitor” in the Marines, and they decide where you’re going to be—be stationed. And, um, they just decide based on when it’s time for you to depart a duty station and what the needs are. Um, you can put in for several different things, um—several different duty stations. And this was just one that I had, you know, put in for that needed a supply person at the time. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, be stationed here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Where else did you, um, apply for a duty station at?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Gosh, you know, I really don’t remember. Um, I know one of them was in Georgia, because I’m in South Carolina. And I can’t recall now where—oh, Macon, Georgia, I believe it was, because it had a recruiting headquarters there. Um, I thought it’d be nice to be somewhat close to home. Um, but besides that, I really don’t recall.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you excited when you were assigned to Orlando? Or how did—how did you feel about the…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. I was excited. Um, I was excited about the job. I mean it is a bit different being in a recruiting headquarters with maybe 15 Marines ver—versus being on a base full of Marines. Uh, so it was going to be something different. And yeah. I was excited about coming to Florida.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was it like being a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm [<em>laughs</em>]. It could be different at times. Um, the period that I was in was before Tailhook [Scandal]—if you’ve ever even heard of “Tailhook.” No?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>It was a big sexual harassment scandal, uh, that occurred soon after I got out of the Marine Corps. But when I was in, um, basically, sexual harassment—it was—it wasn’t something that you heard about. So—and women at that time, um, depending on where you were and who you worked with—most men—I won’t say most. Some men made it very clear that didn’t think women should be in their Marine Corps. And so it was—it could be difficult at times. I feel like you always had to, um, you know—you had to be the one to give 110 percent, you know, if you were out on runs or just in your everyday job just to prove yourself.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney</strong> <br />Was there any time that you felt that you had to prove yourself to someone that was—that looked down on you as a woman in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> <br />Oh, yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there any—any example that you can—you can tell us?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, hmm. I don’t know that I can think of just something—like a particular example. It was more the comments—the everyday comments. Um, it was the things—when we did have to go out on marches or runs, and there were women who couldn’t keep up and, you know, there were women who made up excuses<strong>. </strong>And, you know, that—I think that made it harder for the rest of us, but…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Are there any specific events during your service that stand out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern</strong> Events such as?</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Um, anything. Um, s—something that you enjoyed, or something that you didn’t enjoy, or just something that sticks out in your memory?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. At Camp Smith—Camp Smith is built on like the side of a big—I guess you’d call it a mountain. Um, so everything we did was either going up or going down. So anytime we PT’d, we were either running up or we were running down. And we would go on like these marches with, you know, the packs and the Kevlar helmets. And along the side of this mountain—and you’d look down and there wouldn’t be much over there. So that has always stuck out in my mind a lot.</p>
<p>But it was also beautiful there, which, um—I mean, I will definitely have to say I really enjoyed probably being in Hawaii the most, where we were at Camp Smith. Um, with it being on the side of a mountain, you know, we’d look out one side of where we worked and you’d see, um, Diamond Head and look out the other side and there was Pearl Harbor. I mean, it was—it was just a beautiful place to be.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>And when did you leave the Military?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>1990.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was your last day like in the Marine Corps?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Sad. Yeah. Really sad. Um, you know, it—even though it was my choice to leave, uh, I had just kind of come to a point where I had to decide. I had finished my bachelor degree and I had to decide if I wanted to, um, try to get into an officer program or, you know, or to get out. And I had made that decision at that point to get out. And, uh, even though I had, you know—it was still difficult to do. You know, I had done this for nine years, and I really, um—I really liked what I did. I felt proud of what I did and I still do. So it was hard going from that to the unknown, you know.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What motivated you to decide to leave the Marines and not go into an officer program?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, an officer program isn’t a guarantee. So if I had signed another enlistment, you know, for three to four years, there’s no guarantee that I would have gotten an officer program. And at the time, I had a three year old son, um, and was a single parent. So that had a lot to do with it.</p>
<p>Um, [Operation] Desert Storm<a title="">[1]</a> was right on the horizon. That started like three months after I got out. So at that point, I did feel like I had, you know, made the right decision. But…<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What was the—your highest rank, uh, at the time you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>I was an E[nlisted Rank]-5 Sergeant, but I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee. Meaning: I had been selected for the next rank. Um, but you just have to wait for a certain date. Um, so I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Were you awarded any, uh—any awards or medals or citations?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. There were several things, like good conduct medals, national, uh—no. meritorious, um—oh gosh. I had it on my, um, commendation medals, meritorious. Uh, can I look at my DD [Form] 214 [Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty]? I’ve got it with me.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>‘Cause I thought I might not remember something [<em>laughs</em>]. Let’s see. Meritorious unit commendations, um, certificate of commendations, good conduct medals, meritorious mast, certificate of appreciations, letter of commendations and recognition. So those kinds of things.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>What did you do after you left the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Uh, I decided to come back here to Orlando. Um, I didn’t have a job, at the time, lined up, but, um, I had real—I liked Orlando when I was here, uh—when I had been stationed here. And Orlando was sort of close enough to home, but not, you know, too close. So, uh—and I still had some friends here. So I decided to come back to Orlando. I had a job. I had a civilian job, um, for about six months before I started work here at UCF [University of Central Florida].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How did you come—how did you come—become involved with UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Well, when I—I—like I had said, I was a contract—I did contracts and purchasing when I was in the Marines. And, um, the job opening here was for the assistant director of purchasing. So I had applied for that and got that job. So that was my—my first position here. So my training in the Marine Corps had, you know, a direct effect on what I do now.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I know this is kind of late but what does contracting and purchasing entail?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Um, basically we purchased anything that, you know, was needed there on the base. So, it’s—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anyone you still keep in contact with from the Marines?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mostly on Facebook. So that’s been a—yeah—a good way to connect with people. And then, um, I went to my first Marine Corps ball in like 25 years this past weekend. So that was—that was really nice. Brought back a lot of good memories.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Do you feel your Military experience changed you?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Oh, yes. Definitely. Yeah. Um, like I—like I said, it’s—it’s such a different culture. It’s—it’s even hard to explain, you know? It’s—it’s like I had a 100,000 big brothers and they could pick on me, but nobody else could. And, you know, the—the skills and the leadership, and the, um—they’re just all things that I don’t think I could have learned anywhere else.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Did you find it easy incorporating that into—your Military experience into your career here at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong> I think it was difficult in the beginning, because the Military is very, you know, black and white. Um, and coming here wasn’t exactly that way. So, even in purchasing, now there are a lot of rules and regulations, uh, in the field of purchasing with the State [of Florida]. It’s still very different than, um, being in the Military. But I think my work ethic, my discipline, um, you know, leadership—I think all of those skills were definitely transferable to what I do here.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to talk about with us today?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Hmm. I can’t really think of anything at this time.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I noticed that you had, uh—you were an expert marks[wo]man in the M16-A1…</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>How was, uh—do you still shoot?</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>No. I don’t. I did it with my son a couple of times, but it’s been awhile. Um, as a matter of fact, when I first went into the Marine Corps, women did not even qualify with the rifle, which they all do now. But, um—so, in San Diego, that was the first time I’d had to do rifle qualifications, and I was actually second on the—on the, uh—uh, at the range that week. So…</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>Yeah. I noticed it said you were “expert marksman.” That’s very impressive.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>Yeah. Yeah. Expert with the rifle. Only a marksmen with the, uh, pistol. But yeah, I was a good shot [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>McKinney<br /></strong>I’d like to thank you for joining us here today, for helping us out with the Community, uh, Veterans [History] Project and thank you for your service.</p>
<p><strong>Ekern<br /></strong>You’re welcome.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> First Persian Gulf War.</p>
</div>
</div>
A1
advanced training
Albany, Georgia
assistant director of purchasing
basic training
boot campRemoves
Camp H. M. Smith
Camp Lejeune
cold war
Columbia, South Carolina
Community Veterans History Project
contracting and purchasing
CVHP
Denver, Colorado
Desert Storm
E-5
Ekern, Sharon L.
Enlisted Rank 5
expert marksman
expert marksmen
First Persian Gulf War
Hawaii
Jacksonville, North Carolina
Lowry AFB
Lowry Air Force Base
M16
Marine Corps Ball
Marine Corps Recruit Depot
Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego
marines
McKinney, Roy
MCRD
MCRD Parris Island
MCRD San Diego
MEPs
Military Entrance Processing Command
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Operation Desert Storm
orlando
Parris Island, South Carolina
physical training
PT
Roy McKinney
San Diego, California
Seargant
servicewoman
sexual harassment
sexual misconduct
Sharon L. Ekern
Staff Sergeant Selectee
Student Development and Enrollment Service
Tailhook Scandal
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Marine Corps
UCF
University of Central Florida
USAF
USMC
veteran
veterans
woman
women