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https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/85b20fcd21a4770ae303f58fecc92c7e.pdf
d474090e15b97704aa950c0da4f7b14d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Michael Partain
Alternative Title
Oral History, Partain
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Michael Partain (b. 1968), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War Era. Partain was born at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina on January 30, 1968. He enlisted in the Navy on January 2, 1988, but was disqualified due to illness on February 20. During his short service, Partain trained at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando).<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Amanda Hill on March 6, 2014. Interview topics include Partain's background, enlistment, basic training, advanced training at the Nuclear Propulsion School, the effect of the Navy's presence in Central Florida on the region, NTC Orlando, training, his illness and subsequent qualification, and life after leaving the Navy.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:29 Background<br />0:01:40 Enlistment<br />0:04:00 Naval Training Center Orlando and Nuclear Propulsion School<br />0:06:02 Naval presence in Central Florida<br />0:08:08 Illness and disqualification<br />0:11:18 Basic training, group mentality, and team-building<br />0:23:16 Social life and lessons learned<br />0:25:48 Routine, classes, and Uniform Military Code of Justice<br />0:28:48 Most difficult aspect of boot camp and proudest moment<br />0:31:50 Post-Navy life, breast cancer, and Tetrachloroethylene contamination<br />0:37:07 Lessons learned from the Navy<br />0:39:07 Legacy of NTC Orlando<br />0:43:25 Navy hospital<br />0:45:06 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Michael Partain. Interview conducted by Amanda Hill at Partain's home in Orlando, Florida, on March 6, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 47-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina
Winter Haven, Florida
Recruit Training Center Orlando, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Partain, Michael
Hill, Amanda
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Contributor
Van Zandt, Carli
Date Created
2014-03-06
Date Modified
2014-09-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-06
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
406 MB
223 KB
Medium
47-minute and 17-second DVD audio/video recording
23-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Amanda Hill and Michael Partain.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Today is March 6<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I’m interviewing Mike Partain, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Amanda Hill, and with me is [Carolyn] “Carli” Van Zandt running the camera. We are interviewing today Mr. [<em>laughs</em>] Mike Partain, as part of UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at Mike’s home in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Mr. Partain, will you please start off by telling us, uh, where and when you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I was born at, uh, Camp Lejeune Marine Corps Base in North Carolina in January of 1968.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>So your parents were in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>And[?] my father was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate and a Marine Officer.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>In North Carolina?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, he served in the Marine Corps, uh, in North Carolina.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>And so what did your mom do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, my mother was a housewife. Uh, she’s a French Canadian from the providence of Quebec[, Canada], and they met when he was, uh, in the training crews at the Naval Academy.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I have one sister, uh, born in Bethesda Naval Hospital<a title="">[1]</a> in 1970.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>And growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, well, after my father, uh, resigned his commission from the Marine Corps, we moved to, uh, Central Florida—Polk County.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>How old were you when he resigned?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, four years old.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So you moved here pretty early?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I’ve been here pretty much all my life. This is—this is home. Uh, Camp Lejeune’s pretty much just a name on a birth certificate.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Were your par—were your—was your father involved in the Navy—the Navy at all when he moved here?</p>
<p><strong>Partain <br /></strong>No, no. He was out of the service by then.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So what did you do before you entered the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, I was a college student. Uh, went to Florida State University for my first year of college and, um, didn’t do too well my first year, and when my father got my report card, uh, he informed me that I was on my own.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>That’s why I joined the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So that’s why you joined the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Alright. So how old were you at that time?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, I was 19.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>19. So why the Navy? What…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the—we’re a military family. My grandfather had, uh, served in the Marine Corps. Um, my father was in the Naval Academy and graduated 1966, and, uh, served in the Marine Corps of his commission. So going to the Navy was an opportunity. I, uh, saw a lot of different opportunities I can do in the Navy—pay for my education. That was my main thing was to get my college paid for, since, uh, I didn’t do too well my first year.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>What were you looking to study?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, actually, I went in to the Tampa MET [Military Entrance Test] center<a title="">[2]</a> for the, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—for testing and did the ASVAB [Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery] test—scored very well—and they pulled me aside and asked me if I would take the nuc—nuclear test for Nuclear Propulsion School in the Navy, which I did and scored, uh, very high on that. High enough that the commanding officer of the MET center came to me and asked if I would sign an enlistment contract right away, and I said, “No,” and that I was—that I wanted to think about it first, because I wasn’t totally sure that I wanted to go into the military, and I made the mistake of mentioning my father being, uh—was a Naval Academy graduate, and he ended up calling my father, and, uh, the two of them got together, uh, and I didn’t have a chance. I ended up signing my enlistment contract about an hour later.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Wow, so pretty easy decision?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, it was. I mean I delayed my enlistment. This was in April 1987, when I was still, um—actually, uh, I had just got home from college and, um, I delayed my enlistment until January of 1988.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Why delay?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Just wanted to go in the winter months. I—I don’t like the summer. So I didn’t want to run around in the summer and do PT [physical training] in the summertime.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Makes sense.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I joined the Navy to go see the world, and I ended up travelling about 45 miles north of where I lived and grew up in Orlando, Florida, at the Orlando Naval Training Center.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Right. Were you, uh, looking to be trained then in a specific career at that point or were they looking to train you in a specific career?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I was accepted into the Nuclear Propulsion School for the Navy, and I had to complete my basic training and then A School after that, which were both, at that time—both housed at the Orlando Naval Training Center, uh, here in Orlando.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about the nuclear propulsion?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I didn’t get that far. Um, uh, basically, from my understanding with the school, once I completed, uh, basic, I was gonna go into A School at the Nu—uh, Nuclear Propulsion School, and—which, um, I—if I completed that, I did a six-year hitch as part of the contract, and if I completed the school, then I would have gone into the fleet as an E[nlisted Rank]-3, which would have been Petty Officer [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So that specific school—what are they—what do they do?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, they train the engineers to run the, uh, nuclear propulsion systems for the Navy’s aircraft carriers, uh, and sub—uh, submarines that are nuclear-powered, and it’s a promising career path. It opens up a lot of doors. It was very tough. Academically, it was a very stringent program. If you failed, uh, out of the program, then you went into the fleet and served the rest of your hitch [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What—what were you hoping to do with that?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, it was going to be a skill for me. Um, Open the doors, uh, to—you know, to have a trade and, uh, also go to college. Uh, my plan was to finish college, once I graduated—uh, once I completed my hitch in the Navy, and then take the expertise I had learned in the Navy, along with a—hopefully, a degree in nuclear engineering, uh, and go work in a private industry.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. So then—so you began your training at NTC [Naval Training Center Orlando] in January of 1988?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill <br /></strong>Correct? Okay. So you were pretty familiar then with the region, right? [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>As far as Florida? Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Yes, um, [<em>laughs</em>] so were you…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I joined the Navy and see world, and go right into my own back yard. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right. Were you familiar with the Navy’s presence in Orlando already?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yes, I mean, I—growing up here, you know, the—growing up in Florida, especially, uh, at my age, and when the—the telltale signs of World War II are still all over Florida. Uh, Most of your airports are former Army or Navy Train—, uh, naval, um—Sorry. Most of your airports are former Army or naval training centers for the pilots during World War II, like Sebring [Regional Airport]. Even McCoy [Air Force Base] airfield, which is now the [Orlando] International Airport, was a training field, uh, during World War II. So, you know, there’s always been a military presence in Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>How—do you remember how you found out about that presence?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>As far as—I mean, growing up, I mean, you see the bases. Um, you got NASJAX [Naval Air Station Jacksonville] up in Orlando.<a title="">[3]</a> You got [Naval Station] Mayport—I mean, sorry—NASJAX up in Jacksonville, and you got Mayport. You got Patrick Air Force Base, McCoy Air—I mean, uh, MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa.</p>
<p>Um, as a child growing up, um, the flight path for the Air Force, uh, fighters, to do practice bombing over in, um, Avon Park Bomber Range,<a title="">[4]</a> went over our house. After—every afternoon, we’d see [General Dynamics] F-16s [Fighting Falconfly] fly over and practice in Avon Park, and they’d come back, and sometimes they’d fly low, and, you know, you’d always see the military around growing up here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Why do you think the Navy chose to locate a recruit training center in Central Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, no idea, to be honest with you [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, I know during, uh—when a lot of military bases were here in Florida, or located here in Florida, because of the climate here allowed training year round, especially with the flying conditions. So—but as far as the Navy’s base in Orlando and the training center, um, I have no idea why they, uh, located it here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>That’s fair. Uh, so how long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I arrived in January, uh,—I think it was January 2<sup>nd</sup>, 1988, and I went through the first part of basic training. I made it through about four weeks—almost my fifth week—into, uh, training at, uh, NTC Orlando, And I broke out in a rash. Um, One of the curious things is it was a rash that I was born with at Camp Lejeune. Um, and periodically through my life, whenever—like if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, or, thing—you know, was around chemicals and stuff, I’d break out. Well, I broke out in this rash, and they couldn’t figure out why or where it was coming from. Uh, because normally, I could control it, um, and it just didn’t want to go away.</p>
<p>So the Drill Instructor, [<em>clears throat</em>] um, sent me down to the infirmary—the—the naval hospital, and they held me there for, uh, about a week or so, and tried to figure out what was wrong. They finally came up and said that, uh, I was, uh—because of the rash, that I was going to be disqualified for my program…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, in the Nuclear Power School.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did they know what it was at that point?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, uh, they just called it an “atopic dermatitis.” Uh, and they informed me that it made in ineligible to go to the Nuclear Power School. So I ended up, uh—they asked me if I wanted to stay in the fleet, but that meant chipping paint for the six years I was gonna be in the Navy. So I asked them to go ahead and send me home and, uh, end my enlistment at that point, which they, uh, gave me my uniform. I went home as an E3, so I dressed up in my Navy blues, and got my sea bag, and, uh, they sent me home, but, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] the, um, wha—during that time that they told me I was going home to the time I went home, they put me in what they called a “medical hold company,” where it was—I was taken out of my training regimen, and then put into a, uh, barrack, where other people who had been medically disqualified—they kind of let us sit there for a while. It was about two weeks before they told me, uh, that I had my orders to go home, and that—that’s another—I’ll tell you about that later.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was it like when you found out that you had to leave the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, I mean, the—the, uh—it was a disappointment, because I really had looked forward into getting into the career. Um, I had volunteered to do submarine duty, which was an extra pay, and, um, you know, to me, this was going to be my livelihood. Something—a school and trade that I could pick up and, uh, um, learn, and spend—you know, be able to make a career for the rest of my life with. So I was kind of left with the, um, uh—you know, I ended up coming home, and having to refigure my life and what I was going to do, and I ended up, uh—actually I ended up going to work for [Walt] Disney World after that, and I worked at Disney World for three years while I put myself through college [<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So let’s back up a bit…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>To when you first got to the—the base. Um, what were your first impressions?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, um, you know, it’s intimidating. I mean, you’re coming off civilian life, even though I grew up in a military—military family. Um, nothing prepares you for the shock of going into the world of, uh, you know—of—of the military. It’s a totally different experience.</p>
<p>Um, the first shock is your lose your individuality. Uh, and that was, uh—that was the hardest thing for me to get used to—is the fact that you had to assimilate yourself into their world and their program, and, um, you know, you lost the—the “me” part of yourself, for at least awhile.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you tell me more about that? What specifically caused those changes?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>] Well, I mean, the first thing they do—they bring you in and you line up. Um, you know, they issue you a uniform, um, and it’s an assembly line. You’re given, uh, you know, your boots, eh, and all your gear, and you have to stencil your name on the gear and, uh—and your sea bag, and, um, and then they, uh, shave all your hair off. Uh, they, uh, you know—just going through that is, eh—it’s more—like I said, it’s an assembly line type of impersonal, um—uh, the impersonal, um, process, because, I mean, you’re—you’re moved from one place to another and, you know, you gotta, uh—eh, you just get to feel like you’re a cow sometimes, um, and, uh the other, you know—the other thing is the—as you go in and you’re all wearing the same clothes, you all look the same.</p>
<p>So everybody is the same, and that’s what I mean by “lose your individuality,” and, uh, then, you know, once you get into the barracks that begins the training process, which one of the first things they start doing is breaking down the individual and starting to form a unit. Because, you know, everybody—when everyone’s acting individually, you know—you have your own routines and stuff like that, and one of the first things [<em>laughs</em>] I remember—I knew this was going to happen, uh, because my dad had warned me, but, uh, everyone settled down for the night, and one of the first memories—and it was funny, because it just totally, uh, unnerved me—was, uh, I think, at about three o’clock in the morning, uh, the, uh—the DI [Drill Instructor] came in and threw the trash can down the barrack hall, making all kinds of rackets and screaming, “Get on the line! Get on the line!” And, um, I remember getting—getting up and, um, getting on the line in front of the barracks, and, you know, we’re in our skivvies and socks, and I’m sitting there shaking, and, um, I’m thinking, you know, <em>What the hell? What the hell have I done?</em> Because I don’t like getting up at three o’clock in the morning.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /> </strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I don’t think anybody really does, especially when someone’s screaming at you and throwing a—a metal trash can down the—down the barrack, uh, hallway, and if you don’t—the—the trash cans being metal, makes a hell of a lot of noise, especially in a barrack on a tile floor. So that was the—that was the first morning of recruit training, and, um, they had a lot of different things in store for us as we, uh, went through this process. So it was—some of it was humorous. Um, I knew the purpose of it, which was, you know, some people—some of the guys didn’t do well with it, but, you know, I kinda laughed with some of the stuff that they were doing.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So life in the barracks then—if everyone’s the same, how does that affect the group dynamic?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, you still have people that look out for themselves. That’s the big thing is, when you get people who just don’t—you know, they’re used to taking care of themselves and, um, not—not thinking as a community. Because the whole purpose of the training is to get you thinking beyond yourself, to work as a team, to work together.</p>
<p>Um, like one of the first things that happened, um, when we, you know—we had to march together and they had to form us together and started doing things, of course everyone’s going off in different directions. Um, and I remember one morning, we went out and did PT—running around. and, um, came back, and everything that everybody owned at the barracks, uh, including, uh, the mattresses, the actual bunk racks—everything was heaped up into this massive mountain in the middle of the barracks. and we all walked in and we’re just looking at this. You know, everything we had was in—in the middle of the barracks, and the, of course, the DI comes out screaming at us, you know, uh, “Get this shit together!” You know, “Get this place in order and get it squared up and you’ve got 15 minutes, and, I mean, eh, the—we all looked at each other like, <em>What the hell</em>? So everyone dove[sic] in and people were calling out names and, you know, “I’ve got such and such.” and we’re spreading[?] out trying to get the barracks back up, and of course, we didn’t do it in 15 minutes, which proceeded to have more pushups and things like that that we had to do, because of that. Uh, the—once we get it squared away, it happened again, and, uh, later on, when it happened again, we did get it done in 15 minutes.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Are there any other examples of training experiences that helped shaped your relationships with other recruits in your class?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, well, just—I mean, everything that we did. I mean, from the marching, I remember, um—uh, I didn’t—I don’t’ keep my step very well, so I had a hard time learning how to keep in step, and, uh, the guy next to me was trying to show me how to skip to keep back, you know—to get myself back into step. For some reason, I have no rhythm. So I just—I was just constantly out of step, and I would try to march on the outside, um—on the edge of the sidewalk, so that that way I wouldn’t be seen as much, but never failed. I always got called out for that, but one of the other things they had, uh—one morning, we had inspection and they called in all the, uh, company commanders.</p>
<p>The DIs came in and proceeded to rip the place apart, uh, while we’re standing there on the line. and they would come up to each recruit—and it didn’t matter how clean or how great you had your rack—your stuff stowed—there was always something wrong, and in my case, um, uh, I didn’t make my bed very well. Uh, and they ripped my sheet off, and the DI came up to me—I’m six-foot -two—and my DI was—I think he was probably five-foot-eight or—I mean, he would’ve done really well in the submarine. Um, But he came up to me and threw the sheet over my head, and was screaming at me and says, “You can’t make you’re fucking bed!” And he goes, “How old are you recruit?” “Nineteen, sir,” and he goes, “You are Casper the Catch Edge Ghost. You are to go around to each recruit in this command and walk up to them and raise the sheet and go, ‘Boo. I am Casper the Catch Edge Ghost.’ And put your sheet down and go to the next person. Raise your sheet and go, ‘Boo. I’m Casper the Catch Edge Ghost,’” and I had to do that the entire barrack for the, uh—for the company there, which I—you know, you can’t laugh, and I—inside, I’m laughing my ass off, because—I mean, to me, it’s hilarious, but if you laughed, it just makes it a lot worse.</p>
<p>So I proceeded to do that, and, um, you know, they, uh—and to this day, I don’t make my bed [<em>laughs</em>], and it’s for—ever since then, I do not make my bed, but, um, I had to, um—I just, uh, —it’s one of those things that—it stuck with me, I guess, but, uh, stuff like that—I mean, we had, um, you know—people didn’t have their stuff stenciled right, so they to, uh—they made them fix that. Just little things, and going through and—this process: they come in and they work on people and break them down, and then start building back up as a team, and over time, start marching together and you start doing activities, um, and things like that to—to get to work together as a team, and, um—the people who are struggling, you start to see your leaders step up to help them and, you know, get them in line, because the ones that were having problems—then they started getting, you know, pressure put on them, because they weren’t, you know, keeping up. Like, you know, I learned how to march and, you know, thankfully learned how to skip to catch my step and would get myself back in line, but, uh, you know, there are some guys that struggle with that. They didn’t know how to do it or they were intimidated by it, um, and, you know, you start to work together, so that they can’t get you. Meaning—“they” meaning the drill instructors, and, um, that—that was the neat part to see—everyone start to coalesce together and work together.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>When—do you remember a specific moment or a specific activity that you really started to notice that team coalescing?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, I would say the, uh—we had one time, where[sic] we had a head inspection, and, um, no one liked cleaning the bathrooms, and it’s, you know—in the Navy, the head is your bathroom. So we had a head inspection and, um, you know, everyone pretty much—we knew what was going to happen if we didn’t get it clean. So everyone just dropped everything, ran in there, got it cleaned up, cleaned up, picked up. I remember, um, for some reason, I remember doing—clearing behind one of the toilets with a toothbrush—Not—and not one we were using, but one that we had assigned for cleaning and stuff—and trying to get everything out and spic and span, and, um, that was nice to see that, because, at that point, everyone, you know—everyone was working as a team, and, uh, um, the last part of the training was where you saw the—the team-building. Uh, unfortunately, I didn’t make it past, um, my fifth week, so I didn’t get to do some of the other stuff that they did—firefighting together and other things that I didn’t get to—get to participate in.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you pinpoint as some of those qualities that really helped bring the team together—that transformation?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, the, uh—the qualities is the—it’s the individual learning that they’re not the center of the universe, and that’s one of the things, uh—basic training in the military is to break down the individuality, to have people understand that, you know, you’re—you’re part of something, and the world doesn’t revolve around you. Uh, some people get it quicker than others. Those that do, do very well in the military. Some never get it, but, uh, that was one thing that, uh—that they, you know—everything was designed to do that. Uh, to do it to break down the civilian and then recast him as a—as person who could think in a military world, because, when it comes down to it, one, you now—in the military world, there is a chain-of-command—a hierarchy—and you are expected to follow orders, and there could be times that something could be going on, and you’re given an order, and, as a civilian, you might question it and be like, <em>Well, I don’t feel like doing that right now, and</em> you can’t do that in the military, because someone may tell you to do something, um, like shut a door and secure the door, because there’s a fire, and if you start arguing with them, then the fire might spread out beyond the compartment and—and jeop—jeopardize the ship and everybody on it. So part of the—that training is to get people to understand, you know, hey, there’s a time, you know—the time to be a civilian is when you’re off duty, but when you’re—when you’re on duty, you have your military bearing, you have—you follow it, and you, you know—you work for the good of the unit.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>When you were off duty, was there ever any sort of social life with…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, when I was in training…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Amongst the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, no. There’s no liberty or leave—li—liberties really. There was no liberty, uh, in training. Um, the liberty took place when you graduated from boot camp. Um, so I did not get that experience. Uh, once—once I went into the medical hold company, and I stayed there, and, um, you know, that—that—once I got out, then I went home and that was it.</p>
<p>So, uh, one of the funny things that happened—um, my father and grandfather both sent in birthday cards for me, uh, while I was in training, and, uh—which normally wouldn’t be a problem, but they were being smartasses and they signed their card—they put in the address of the card—my father put down: “Captain Warren B. Partain, Jr., USNC” —I’m sorry—uh, “USNA class of ’66,” and, uh—and then my grandfather put, uh: “Major Warren B. Partain, Sr., USNC, retired,” and, um, the DIs, of course, got the letters and they called me up to the office, and, uh, you had to walk up to the office, you had to bang on the door and announce who you were, and then asked permission to enter in, and, uh, so I get into the office and, um, I see the birthday cards in my DI’s hand, and he goes, “So your father was a—was a ring banner?” And I knew right then what my dad had done.</p>
<p>The “ring banner” is a term—a derogatory term—for a Naval Academy graduate. So he goes, “Drop and give me 20.” [<em>laughs</em>] So—and he goes—of course, that wasn’t good enough, so I ended up doing like I think 60 or 70 pushups. Um, and of course, you know, that was because of what my grandfather and father had done, but, um, it was their amusement [<em>laughs</em>], but he wasn’t a mean guy. I mean, they started to like me. They’re not, um—it’s not like they’re sadists or anything like that—the drill instructors. They do it for a purpose, and then, you know. As you mature and things like that, you get to see what they’re trying to do and they really begin to teach you.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you say that purpose is [inaudible]? What were they trying to teach you?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I mean, how to conduct yourself in a military fashion. A military bearing.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Like one of the things—one of the things I still remember is to make sure my gig line is straight. Um, you know, when you get dressed and, uh, get everything together, your buttons line up with your belt—the edge of your belt buckle and your—and your zipper, so you have what’s called a “gig line.” It goes straight up from—from your neck down to your crotch [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was daily life like as a Navy recruit?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, everything was structured. I mean, you got in the—in the training, you got up at a certain time, you ate at a certain time, uh, you PTed at a certain time, uh, You had training and different things, uh, at—at different, um—at different times, and then they put you to bed. So you had no choice. I mean, very little free time. The only time we really got free time was laying in the rack before you went to sleep.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, they kept you too busy. so you talked to your, um—your, you know—your bunkmate and the people around you, but for the most part you’re doing what they—they put in classes and they teach, you know—they—one of the first things they start teaching you is the UCMJ for the Univer[sic]—Univerm[sic] —Uniform Code Military Justice, which is the rules and regulations of the Navy. You know, how to salute, when to salute, um, how to march, uh, what you can and can’t do, um, And just, you know—it’s an emersion into a different life style.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Who were—you said you were taking classes, so who were your instructors?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, just other, uh—other, um—sometimes they were other Dis, sometimes they were, uh, just other people on the base. Um, No one that I really remember specifically.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Okay. Do you remember any of your specific classes?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, like I said, most of it— like the UCMJ. One of the funny ones, uh—probably not appropriate for this, but it’s one of those things that stuck in your mind. We’re sitting there showing slides and talking about the UCMJ, and they had, um—they had this slide come up, and it was on a pink background. It had a sailor sitting down, and on his lap, he had a dog, and there was a big circle with a line through [<em>laughs</em>] it for no bestiality, and I about but laughing when I saw it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>But they had—I mean, just stupid things like that, but, uh, the, uh, you know— when they start getting to the later weeks, like I said, they—[inaudible]—they—they’d have you march, and there was a lot of drill to get you to un—to get your body into the routines, and then later on, you start doing more class work, and, um, they, uh—like I said, they—they—one of the big things was firefighting. We are out doing firefighting duty, and then they have one a week, where you’re working KP [kitchen patrol] duty and stuff like that for the kitchen.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Uh, Could you clarify for me what, um—the acronym UCMJ?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>University[sic] Code of Mil—Universal[sic] Code of Military Justice. <a title="">[5]</a> It’s the law for the military. So the military has its own, um—basically its own judicial system, uh, that’s separate from the civilian one. So they administer their own laws, and, uh, courts, and everything. So, like if I did something wrong, then I could be, uh—they have what’s called a “captain’s mast” or “court-martialing.” and your—whatever infraction, then you’ll assess whatever penalty or—or, uh, punishment that they have.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>The hardest thing that I remember doing, um—I dunno. it was probably just the, um—I’m tempted to say—well, the—well, the thing that I didn’t like the most—that was hard or difficult for me—was in the military—medical hold company. Um, this—this was once they disqualified me from service. They put me in a limbo, um, where I didn’t know when I was going home. I didn’t know what was really going on, other than the fact that they were—they, uh—that I was being disqualified from the Navy, and they told me that, you know, it takes some time and it could take a couple days, a couple months. So I’m like, you know—no one likes to be in limbo, and they would have you do stupid stuff, Just to have you do it. Uh, like we went in to one barrack and we scrubbed the whole barrack with hand brushes, on our hands and knees, and it was just, um—stuff like that. That was, you know, trying not to get negged out. Um, that was the hardest thing for me.</p>
<p>I mean, to me, the training is easy. Um, you know, doing the physical activities, the running, uh, the marching, the learning. That was easy and it didn’t bother me. I mean, I enjoyed, um, the challenge of that. The hard part for me was when I realized that I was not going to be able to stay in the Navy, Having to wait, and then wait for the bureaucracy to process—process me out. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Before we move on to that moment, um—because I do want to talk about that—can you tell me one moment where you felt really proud of your work in NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, the—I think the proudest moment—I still have it—is, uh, my photograph. Um, they brought us in after we shaved us, and we’re all cleaned up, and they dressed us up, and they marched us in, and we took our photograph with the American flag behind us, uh, so we could send it home to Mom and Dad, and that to me was the proudest moment. Um, I—I still have that photograph. I have it on my Facebook page, and, um, I keep that, and, uh, you know—yeah[?]. It’s just a little snot-nosed kid in his little sailor’s uniform, but it—to me, that was something that I could show that hey, you know, I’m serving my country. I’m doing what’s right and trying to make, you know, things a little bit better than when I found it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you send it home to mom and dad?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What’d they say?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I think, uh—I mean, ma—they wrote me back, and I had a girlfriend, at the time too, and she wrote me. I had letters from her, um, on a daily basis. I still got them, and, uh, the, uh—I’ve got a stack of letters about that thick that she wrote to—back and forth, and that was nice, you know, to have someone writing back and forth. It—it kind of killed the monotony. You’d look forward to—you know, that was you’re little piece of individ—individuality. You get your letter and mail call and—and to read that, and, uh—but yeah. I sent that home to Mom and Dad, and my girlfriend.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So when did you leave the Navy then?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, I was, um—it was—I don’t remember the exact day, Um, but it was in February, uh, of ’88. It was roughly about two months after I’d got there. I think I served just under 60—60 days, or somewhere close to 60 days, and, um, basically they came in and told me to collect my gear, um, get my dress blues on, and they sent me home. See, when I enlisted, I enlisted, instead of as a, uh—um, going in as a seamen, I would have—when I completed everything, I would have come out as a, uh, Petty Officer—an E-3.</p>
<p>So, um, they allowed me to go home with a—with that uniform and that rank, which is kinda nice, you know? It was funny, ‘cause everyone else were[sic] being sent off, and I get my orders and am being put on a bus. They asked me if I wanted to go on a bus, or I think it was a train to Water Haven, and I said, uh, “Just drop me off at the airport.” I called my mom and dad and told them to come get me, because the airport’s, you know, 45 minutes from my parent’s house. Because a bus would have taken like 3 hours to get there. So I had them drop me off at the airport, and I played video games [<em>laughs</em>] for about two hours while I waited for my parents to come get me, but it was nice to, you know, walk around the airport in the—in my uniform and get home, and I saw my girlfriend in my uniform and that, uh—that’s always fun.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, so have you—what did you do once you left?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, once I was out of the Navy, I went back to college. Um, of course, the—my plan of having the Navy, uh, as a career and paying for my college that way kind of fell through. Um, I went to work for Disney World, and, uh, finished my AA [Associate of Arts] degree, and then transferred up to Florida State University and married my girlfriend, and I completed my degree up there, and, uh, you know, worked my way through college.</p>
<p>Made me appreciate my education a lot more, and, uh, one of the things ironic things and—that happened—and it kind of comes back full circle with NTC Orlando—um, seven years ago, I was diagnosed with, uh, male breast cancer. Oddly enough, my birthplace was extremely contaminated with, um, drinking water—I mean, uh, solvents in the drinking water, and one of those solvents is called Tetrachloroethylene, which is used in dry-cleaning, and it’s linked to breast cancer. Um, whenever I was a child growing up, I would break out into the rash I told you about, because—well, shortly after I was diagnosed, I went back, and I remembered my experience at NTC Orlando, and the fact that I had broken out in this rash after, uh, I had gotten on base. So I looked up the base, and like Camp Lejeune, NTC Orlando was declared a Superfund<a title="">[6]</a> site, um, uh, partly because of the Tetrachloroethylene dumped from the base drycleaner, which was located right next to the barracks, where I was housed as an enlisted, uh, sailor, uh—seaman—in, uh—in 1988, and the base was actually closed down in 1995, um, and listed in—into the Superfund site at that time, which, uh—it’s one of those odd things that I always wondered about is: how bad was the base contaminated? Because, soon as I got home, the rash that I had broken out with, while I was in training, cleared up</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Without any—within days of being home, and, uh—and it never broke out like that again, like I did when I was on base, and [inaudible]—when I rented on base, I was fine, and, uh—so it’s one of those things that makes you wonder, and my understanding is that the—the, uh, base drycleaner—he said they had been dumping this chemical on the base and it was a plume of it that actually stretched underneath the recruit training barracks, like I said, and ended up, I think, in Lake Druid—is where the chemicals were coming out.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did—was there ever any cleanup measures taken?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I don’t know. I didn’t look into that. I’ve been tied up with the Camp Lejeune issue since then, but one of these days, I’d like to go back. I’d heard some things that had happened here, but I didn’t follow the—the end results of, um, NTC Orlando after that. I know they closed the base down and I think the developed it—part of it as a private community.<a title="">[7]</a> And I heard there were some problems here, but, uh, you know, like I said, I didn’t really follow—follow up on it, but I thought I would mention it.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you keep in touch with anyone from the base?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Uh, one of the guys I enlisted with, um, actually, was a high school friend of mine. We both went into the Nuclear Power School together. Um, His name is Alex, and he was actually, um, accepted into the United States Naval Academy, like my father, and he still presently serves in the Navy. I believe he’s a Commander or a Captain now. I do not know his rank. I haven’t—I haven’t kept up with him the past couple of years, but I think he’s a commander. but he did serve—uh, he’s—he’s still serving, and, uh, actually got an appointment to the Naval Academy, which is one of—one of the things I was hoping to do myself.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Uh, so one of the things you mentioned earlier is that, um, the Navy teaches you that you’re a part of something larger.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Would you say that that’s something that you feel you’ve carried on to the [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, growing up in a military family, it’s always been indoctrinated into me for that. Um, Like I mentioned, I, you know, became involved in the Camp Lejeune issue mainly, uh, because, you know, I realized what had happened to me wasn’t unique, and I felt a responsibility to speak out and help the other Marines and families, which I’ve been doing for the past seven years. So, I mean, that’s—growing up in a military family, um, you know, you—it just—it’s service, God, honor, country. I’m mean, that’s the way I was raised, and when you go into the service, you’re taught God, honor, country.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Are there any other values or characteristics, um, of the Navy that you think transferred to the rest of your life, as well?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, I mean, the God, honor, country is[sic] primarily the core principles with which I’ve tried to guide my life.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What would you say is the most valuable lesson you learned during your time at the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, probably, never give up. You know, you always—you always keep moving forward and just, you know, never give up.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Can you remember a time while you were, um, in training that you felt like giving up, but didn’t?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, got lonely. I mean, left my girlfriend behind and, uh, there was a time where—yeah. I was thinking, <em>Okay. I’m going to be doing this, going off at sea for six months, and I don’t know if I like that, and</em>, you know you just—you look back and say, <em>Well, why did I join?</em> I joined because I wanted to get an education, I wanted to get a trade, and, you know, the Navy’s going to provide that, and, you know, you—you quickly overcome those things. Feelings are temporary [<em>sniffs</em>]. Good and bad [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What do you think the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando or the Navy’s presence in Central Florida has been?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—for me—and understanding what I have come across, because of my, you know—because of the issue with breast cancer—it—unfortunately, I mean, NTC Orlando’s gone. Uh, it’s no longer there. The vestiges are still here, but what the Navy left behind underground, that is going to be here for years to come, and that’s something that really has not been addressed in a great deal with the community. Um, And sadly, that—in the end, that becomes the Navy’s legacy—is not for the good things they did, but for, you know, the irresponsibility for leaving toxic chemicals behind.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What actions would you like to see taken to resolve those issues?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, I’m not familiar totally with the issue to—to see what they’ve done. I know, as part of the bra—uh, Superfund site, they’re required to cleanup. Um, to what extent they’ve cleaned up, I don’t know. Uh, there’s a lot of different laws and, uh, different, um, procedures in place, but, in the end, you know, that—that’s something the Navy, um—well, I don’t know what to say on that. Sorry. I got distracted. The ADHD [attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder] is killing me here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] That’s alright. That’s alright.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>But[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, so…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>It’d be—it would be nice to have…</p>
<p>[<em>phone rings</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>We have a phone distraction here.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>It would be nice to have…</p>
<p><strong>Partain <br /></strong>Hm?</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>You were saying…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Okay. It would be nice to have an independent, um, historical analysis of what, you know—what the Navy did and exactly what the Navy legacy is. I mean, the—the infrastructure of the base is gone. Um, what’s left is the land that they owned on the base, and what did they leave behind on that land? and how will that affect the community? And sadly, you know, u, what was not cleaned up by the Navy, uh, will be there for some time to come and, you know, somebody’s gonna have to pay that cost.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So how do you think uh,—how is the NTC—well, you talked about how the base has changed. What about the region? Um, Central Florida as a whole. How do you think it’s been impacted since the base closed?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—I mean, the base itself, um, wasn’t a, uh, mega base, like you would have, say, with, um, Mayport Naval Station up in Jacksonville. Um, It had an impact on the community, uh, but not, you know—there wasn’t aircraft being serviced, um, there wasn’t[sic] ships and, you know, the contractors to work the ships and things, you know—servicing the ships or what have you. It’s a training center. So, uh—and I would say there was an economic impact. To what degree it was, I don’t know.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>kay. Um, what do you think visitors would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit the site of the base? The [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, I haven’t been back since I left, and, um, I’ve driven by it a couple of times. Uh, there was a gaming store called Enterprise 1701 near the base, where I used to get my board games. That was a hobby I had, and I—it would be nice to go back and see the site, uh, of where the base was, and maybe something commemorating that it was here, and, uh, I am curious to go back and see and see—and see exactly what is there, uh, and what’s left, and what they’ve done with the, uh—with the base and the Superfund site stuff, ‘cause there’s[sic] things that I’m aware of because of my involvement with Camp Lejeune and being on Camp Lejeune, that, you know, when you go on base, you look at things, and unless you know what you’re looking at, you don’t know what it is. So I’m kind of curious to see what’s there on the base.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Did you ever go back?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>I understand that the old naval hospital is the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital now.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Now…</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>So I’d be curious to see that.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Were you ever at that hospital?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Yeah, that’s where I was…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>That’s where you were disqualified.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Disqualified from service. They sent me to that hospital. I remember marching by myself with a chip, um, going down to the hospital, and, you know—and then, they were really puzzled, um, by what was happened with me. Matter of fact, I later got my me—my medical records from the Navy, and, uh, they were really puzzled why I broke out, because it was all over my arms and my face and was a blood red rash, and, um, they could not figure out what it was, and, uh, they kept asking all kinds of questions. They—they’re like, “Well, you had this when you si—when you signed up,” and I’m like, “Well, I was born with this, but it’s never been a problem like this,” and they said, “Well, how did you get passed recruit training or the recruit indoctrination and all that?” And I said, “Well, I wasn’t breaking out.” I said, “This is something that—normally, it comes and goes.” At the time, I thought it was, you know—in the wintertime, I’d break out or if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, and I thought, at the time, that it may have been the clothes—the polyester rubbing against my skin doing it. I had no idea that it could be anything else.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Because it would—I mean, I didn’t find out about what had happened to me at Camp Lejeune until, uh, 2007, which is 20 years after I joined.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Um, what was it like in the—the hospital—In the Navy hospital?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, just you’re standard, you know, ultra-clean hospital. Nothing—nothing special.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Nothing special? Okay. Uh, well, is there anything else you’d like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Anything you think I missed or we didn’t talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>No, I mean, it’s, like I said, the—I mean, for young people, the Navy—and in the military, in general, uh,—presents a lot of opportunities. You know, it’s not perfect. I could mention the contamination problem, with something present in the military especially during the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, but, you know, for young people, it’s an opportunity to start your life, to pick up something, uh, unique, to learn, and more importantly, it—it builds a sense of self-discipline inside you. ‘Cause it’s very easy to forget that, you know, there’s more to the world than just you, and serving in the military is productive. I mean, it—it gives you a respect for yourself, respect for others, respect for your country. Um, and, you know, it’s something that, you know—I think everyone should do as a citizen of this country, and, uh—I mean, that’s just, um—there’s a lot of positives that come out of it. Now, the leadership of the military—that’s another story.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>What’s next for you?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Um, well, I’m 46, and, um, uh, for me, um, I worked my career, raised my children, and, uh, I’m going back to get my Master’s [degree] in history, and I’m actually going to be writing about and doing research with, uh, contaminated military bases, uh—is my—my career until I retire.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>So your experience has really shaped where you’re headed?</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Well, the, um—more my birthplace. The, uh—Because of what happened to me, uh, before I was born at a military base, but, you know, NTC Orlando is one of those curious things that, once I put two and two together, I looked at it, and eventually, I’ll do the research on it and—and learn what happened there, but right now, my focus is other places.</p>
<p><strong>Hill<br /></strong>Well, thank you so much for your time.</p>
<p><strong>Partain<br /></strong>Oh, you’re welcome.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Officially called the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> United States Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Jacksonville.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Avon Park Air Force Range.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Uniform Code of Military Justice.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> Baldwin Park.</p>
</div>
</div>
airports
Amanda Hill
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery
ASVAB
atopic dermatitis
Avon Park
Avon Park Air Force Range
basic training
boot camps
breast cancer
captain's mast
Carli Van Zandt
Carolyn Van Zandt
CERCLA
cold war
colleges
Community Veterans History Project
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980
contamination
court-martial
CVHP
dermatitis
DI
disqualifications
Drill Instructor
E-3
education
engineering
engineers
Enlisted Rank 3
enlistment
Enterprise 1701
environmental cleanup
F-16
General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon
gig lines
higher education
Hill, Amanda
hospitals
illness
illnesses
inspections
instructors
Lake Druid
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
MacDill AFB
MacDill Air Force Base
marching
Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune
McCoy AFB
McCoy Air Force Base
medical hold company
memorials
MET
Michael Partain
military code
military education
Military Entrance Processioning Center
Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa
Military Entrance Test
military justice
military training
monuments
NAS Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Station Mayport
Naval Training Center Orlando
NS Mayport
NTC Orlando
nuclear engineering
nuclear power
nuclear propulsion
Nuclear Propulsion School
orlando
Petty Officer
Polk County
recruit training
Recruit Training Command
recruits
ring banner
Seaman
special training
Superfund
Tetrachloroethylene
toxic chemicals
toxic cleanups
U.S. Air Force
UCMJ
Uniform Code of Military Justice
universities
university
veterans
Warren B. Partain, Jr.
Warren B. Partain, Sr.
water contamination
Winter Haven
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e4b7f6422abac4d4b5353edbed6399c7.pdf
26c6287bc13290321f910fbed6b0c442
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Curt Sawyer
Alternative Title
Oral History, Sawyer
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Army
Description
An oral history interview of Curt Sawyer (b. 1954), who served in the U.S. Army from 1986 to 1994. Sawyer was born in San Francisco, California, on May 1, 1965, but grew up in Tennessee. While living in Fort Myers, Florida, in 1986, Sawyer joined the Army. During his service, he participated in training exercises with the French Foreign Legion in Corsica and served at Guard Post Ouellette in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) between North Korea and South Korea. Sawyer achieved the rank of First Lieutenant and received the Expert Infantryman Badge. He was also a graduate of the Army Ranger School, Army Airborne School, Army Air Assault School, and Army Rappelling School.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Robin Dunn at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include attending the United States Military Academy at West Point, Airborne School and Air Assault School, serving in South Korea, the 1st Ranger Regiment, meeting his wife, his post-Army life, and training with the French Foreign Legion.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:40 Background<br />0:01:28 Enlistment<br />0:03:33 United States Military Academy at West Point<br />0:05:53 Army assignments <br />0:07:22 South Korea<br />0:10:52 Airborne School and Air Assault School<br />0:12:38 Rest and recuperation in South Korea<br />0:14:35 Savannah, Georgia <br />0:18:35 1st Ranger Regiment<br />0:20:33 Breakout of the Persian Gulf War<br />0:22:15 Wife<br />0:28:07 Post-military life<br />0:30:04 Training with the French Foreign Legion<br />0:34:44 Staying in touch with friends from the military <br />0:36:03 Impact of Army on life<br />0:37:38 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Curt Sawyer. Interview conducted by Robin Dunn at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>. Interviewed by Robin Dunn, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016000, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
20-page digital transcript of original 39-minute and 53-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>. Interviewed by Robin Dunn, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016000, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
United States Military Academy at West Point, West Point, New York
Fort Benning, Georgia
Guard Post Ouellete, Demilitarized Zone, South Korea
Itaewon, Yongsan-gu, Seoul, South Korea
Eglin Air Force Base, Okaloosa County, Florida
Savannah, Georgia
Corsica, France
Creator
Sawyer, Curt
Dunn, Robin
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
342 MB
218 KB
Medium
39-minute and 53-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Robin Dunn and Curt Sawyer.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Kim, Kwi-Gon. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/857709227" target="_blank"><em>The Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) of Korea: Protection, Conservation and Restoration of a Unique Ecosystem</em></a>. 2013.
Si-woo, Lee, and Myung-Hee Kim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/754765257" target="_blank"><em>Life on the edge of the DMZ</em></a>. Folkestone: Global Oriental, 2007.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/464/rec/1" target="_blank">Sawyer, Curt</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Today is November 13<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Curtis Sawyer, Associate Vice President of Administrative Affairs at the University of Central Florida, who served in the United States Army for eight years, achieving 1<sup>st</sup> Lieutenant as his highest rank. My name is Robin Dunn. We are interviewing Mr. Sawyer as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida. Good morning, Mr. Sawyer. How are you?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Good morning, Robin.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I’m doing fine. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Alright. We’re going to start with some easy questions. Um, when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[May 1<sup>st</sup>,] 1965.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>San Francisco, California.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer <br /></strong>Hm, my father originally was a college English professor, and then he switched careers about midcareer and went into real estate, and that’s what—so those were his two primary careers. My mother was homemaker.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And did you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I have one older sister.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>She’s three years older. Her name is Dojuan [Sawyer].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Dojuan?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn <br /></strong>And, um, what is—did she have any military history, as well? Did she enlist in…</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No, her husband did. He was enlisted man in the 82<sup>nd</sup> Airborne [Division] and he used to jump out of airplanes for a living. So he and I had quite, uh—a little bit of a common background.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And when did you enlist in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, I went in in [June 30,] 1986.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And what made you enlist into the Army?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, I actually went in as an officer, and so, um, it really wasn’t something that I had thought about, when I was a kid growing up in the country in Tennessee. Um, I always really liked playing war games, and, um—so my little toy soldiers, and, um, tanks, and—and I was just set up these elaborate massive battles, and that’s what they [inaudible], and then I’d go outside and whittled out swords and—And, um, play Army, but that was really the extent of what I thought I would do with that desire to do military stuff.</p>
<p>When I was living in Fort Myers[, Florida] in 1986, our [U.S.] senator,<a title="">[1]</a> who, at the time, senator was Senator<a title="">[2]</a> Connie Mack,<a title="">[3]</a> sent out a new letter to us and my dad saw it and it was a little blurb that said, “Hey. Anybody interested in applying to a service aca—academy, um, here’s what you do.” And so, um, my dad said, “Hey, Curt. You should try to do this. You will never get accepted, because you don’t know anybody political, but you can just go ahead and do it for the experience.” and so I did. I went through the process, I interviewed with the co—committee, I did all the PT [physical training] tests, I did the medical exams, I finished my grades, I showed all the stuff that I had done, and then I forgot about it, and, um, I had gone to community college, as well, like what you did. Edison Community College. Now it’s [Florida] SouthWest[ern] State College. and I was going to graduate from there and then I was either going to go to the University of Florida or Florida State [University], whichever school had the higher ratio of females to males.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>That was my criteria for de—deciding. and so one day, in the mail, came this official looking binder, and, um—and I opened it up, and I looked at it, and it said, um, “The United States Military Academy is pleased to offer you a letter of-of ac—of, uh—of acceptance to the class of 1986”—the class of ‘90—“at West Point.” So that’s how I started my military career.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm, and so you went to West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I did.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay. So how was West Point? What was your experience at West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, you know, um, it was something that I—I did not really prepare for. When I got there, um, a lot of my classmates had already prepared they knew what they were up—so There’s a lot of reading, a lot of memory work you have to do. It’s called “bugle notes.” it’s that thick. You memorize it all: insignia, rank, history, sayings, important figures that graduated—all that stuff. Um, they knew all that stuff, they knew how to shine their shoes and their boots, and they knew how to do a proper salute, and they knew—and I knew nothing about that. So it took me a while to figure that all out, and, um—but once I did it went well enough. Um, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Is there anything, um, memorable about West Point? Do you have any, like, experiences that you enjoyed there?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, I think every single minute of my four years there is seared into my memory. Um, so it—I’m very proud, um, of my West point experience. I’m glad I went. At the time, it was a little bit—I’ve always been a little bit of, um—of an independent type. Um, kinda a little bit of a free thinker. Not in a really kind of a weird or aggressive way, but just always been independent-minded, and that’s not what West point is about. So, um, it’s been around since [March 16,] 1802, and so there’s a history, and there’s a structure, and there’s a way of doing things, and you either comply with it and you do well, or if you don’t, then you really kind of—you just don’t make it. So, um—so once I kinda came to grips with that, um, I did well.</p>
<p>I, you know—the experiences were very rich. The classmates, which[sic] I still keep in contact with, um, the things I did, the training that I did. During the summers, we really wouldn’t have summers off in military training for vacation. We would go on military training. So I went to Air Assault School<a title="">[4]</a> and I got my Air Assault wings [Badge], went to Airborne School and did that, went to Germany for six weeks, and so just a lot of kind of—life at a hundred miles an hours.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And what did you do after West Point?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, with West Point comes, um, a commitment—a military commitment in the Army, and so, um, I went into the Army and did that for four and a half years. I was stationed at—at different places and did different things. Do—do you want me to share that with you?</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Where—where were you stationed?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay. So once I graduated from West Point, um, my parents bought me a trip to, um, Cancún[, Quintana Roo, Mexico] with a buddy, and, um, so we did that to kind of celebrate the four years of hard work, which is where I met my wife, Uh, by—By the way. She was my travel agent. I’ll tell that story a little bit later.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um—and so then after that, I went to the Officer Basic Corps in Fort Benning, Georgia, and then I went to Ranger School, um, and then, um—and then my first duty assignment was in [South] Korea, and, um, did Korea for a while, had a regular line. It’s called a “line platoon,” which is a platoon of—in infantrymen, at the time, and then, um, there I took over—it’s called a “scout platoon,” which is a smaller unit—but basically we would go out and were kinda the eyes and ears of the overall battalion, and, um, once I left Korea, then I came back to the United States and went to Savannah, Georgia, and I served with the 75<sup>th</sup> Ranger [Regiment] battalion. So the first—first Ranger battalion in Savannah, Georgia, and did that for a while, and then I wrapped up my service.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn <br /></strong>Now, you said you went to Korea. Um, what—what was it like going to Korea? What were your first experiences and thoughts, while you were in Korea?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, you know, it was kind of a surprise that I even went to Korea. The way West point does it is that everything you do, um, counts against your rank, and so there is roughly 1,000 of us that entered, um, our plebe year, and so roughly 900 graduated. and so what they do—so every PT, every—every test that you take, every PT test you take, every academic grade you get, every sport that you play, every demerit that you get, everything goes into this basically a formula, and you’re rank-ordered from number one all the way down to the bottom. So you always know where you stand, in terms of the rest of your classmates, and so, what you do then, is you pick the branch that you want to go, and generally most folks get that they want. I always wanted to go infantry, and then what happens is, at some point in time, several couple month before we graduated, they take you into an auditorium, and we’re all in there, and your names are all—all 900—and then all of the available slots that are available worldwide, in terms of duty stations, right? And they’re all there. They’re all on the board. So the number one person…</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Who, in my class, was a guy by the name of Ed Hoyt, was just this—photographic memory—he is the first choice. So the—the best slots always go first. Vicenza[, Veneto], Italy, always goes first, Hawaii goes, Fort Ord, California, always go first. All the cool place go, and then they work down the list.</p>
<p>So I was about mid-pack. I was like around 450 or so, and I had planned—I was dating this girl, and we was all serious, and it was love and all that sort of thing, and so we had agreed that we were going to—that I was going to go to Fort Lewis, Washington. I was going to stay stateside, and, um, we were going to continue the relationship. and so when it can time, when they called my name, Cadet Curt Sawyer, I stood up and fully expected to say, “Fort Lewis, Washington,” but what came out of my mouth was “the Republic of Korea.” and honest to goodness, [inaudible] I’m like—and my friends all looked at me, and I looked at them, and I’m like, “What have I done?” And, um—and that’s where I went, and so, um, the relationship ended pretty quickly thereafter, and, um, I went to Korea.</p>
<p>So Korea was cool, just because, um, back then, it was fairly tense still. There’s still no formal treaty ending the [Korean] War between North Korea and South Korea. So it—it—it could be tense on the Demilitarized Zone—the DMZ, and, um, so I spent quite a bit of time on the DMZ, with—with the, eh—there—there’s a couple of guard posts that are right there. One of them is Guard Post Ouellette, and it’s actually surrounded on three sides by North Korea. So it kinda jets out and, um, it’s pretty tense, and we would do patrols, and—and look for the North Koreans, and they would look for us, and that sorta of thing.</p>
<p>So I wasn’t married. I didn’t have, um, commitments, and so it was a time that I really dove into my craft of learning to be an Army officer, and doing as well as I could. Um, there were several of my classmates that[sic] I went to West Point with, and I went to Airborne School, and I went to Ranger School—they were over there, and so we were pretty close, and we were just we really, really trained hard, and—And, um—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and you said you went to Airborne and…</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Air Assault.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Air Assault School. Do you want to talk about those? And how those experiences helped you?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, those are kinda expected. Those are schools that are kinda expected, um, as an Army infantry officer, um, especially someone that wants to go to, um, Ranger School, and then serve in a Ranger battalion. you—you really—it’s hard to be in a Ranger battalion and not have—be airborne qualified, because of a lot of what Rangers do is you parachute in and do your mission, and so it’s just one of those things, and Airborne School is pretty straightforward. I went to it my junior year. They call it a “cow” at West Point. Your junior year, you’re—you’re a cow. Yeah. It goes: plebe, and then yearly, and then cow, and then firstie, right? And so, um, straightforward. You do five jumps, and then you get your Airborne wings, and you put it on, you wear them, you walk around like somebody special, because you—you jumped out an airplane five times.</p>
<p>So it was cool. It was hot, and then Air Assault School is where you—you—basically, you repel out of helicopters, and, um, it’s—it’s pretty straightforward. It actually was a hard course—not the physical part. It’s just you had to learn how to—to rig items, Jeeps, equipment, and that sorta thing, in order to be able to transport them, and so it’s pretty technical, and that was kinda hard. But, um, and that as in Fort Kentu—um, that was in, um—I forget the name—and in Kentucky. That was really hot. Everything I did, all the classes, or courses, were in the middle of the summer, it felt like. So they were good. It was good training. It helped me in my craft as an Army officer.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay. Um, now, while you’re in Korea—we’re gonna go back to Korea—um, what did you do when you weren’t working? What was your, like, R&R [rest and recuperation], while in Korea?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Um, yeah, you know, there wasn’t that much time that we were off, um, because we were, um, either at the home base, um, getting ready to go back to the DMZ or, um—or we were recovering from out last mission to the DMZ, or, um, we were actually at the DMZ—the Demilitarized Zone, and what that is: it’s basically a line that—the 45<sup>th</sup> Parallel [North] that divides North and South Korea.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um, the few times that we—the times that we had off, we would go into the city of Seoul[, South Korea]. So we learned how to take the train and—and the sub—and, uh, the subway—and go into Seoul, and there’s a little place called Itaewon, which is were a lot of us would go. Um, I can’t tell you too much about it, because it was one of—it was kind of a younger, wilder, um, time that was a little bit of a blur.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>That’s okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]I will tell you this: they have this stuff “soju,” right? Which is—it’s kinda like our white lightning. It’s—it’s, um—really, really, powerful, clear alcohol. And so you can’t drink it straight, ‘cause it’ll kill ya, I mean, it’s like drinkin’ gasoline. So [<em>laughs</em>] whatcha do though is you is mix it with, um, different kinds of Kool-Aids [<em>laughs</em>], and honest to goodness—and so, um, you know—cherry Kool-Aid, or grape Kool-Aid, or whatev—and so it tastes like Kool-Aid. You can’t taste the—the booze in it. So you drink a couple of those, and you just really kind of, you know, be all you can be as a young, American soldier in a foreign country.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And how long were you in Korea for?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>A year.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and when you came back, you said you went to Savannah, Georgia?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>That, um—so I was in Korea And, um—and so the scout platoon became available, so I got selected to do that, which is—which is kinda of an honor, because, um—it just is. Um, ‘cause there is just one scout platoon in a battalion, and, um, and the thing about scouts is, um, you—you have to go out, and you have to be very tactical, you have to be very—you cannot be seen, Right? So you kind of—you integrate.</p>
<p>Well, we had a colonel that was, um—came from the old guard in Washington, D.C, and those are the ones—the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers. So they walk, and all the pomp and the ceremony, and all that sorta thing. Well, that stuff is great, but it doesn’t really work when you’re out in the field, you know? There it’s more about performance, more—it—more about getting the bad guy before the bad guy get you, and so I didn’t wear full uniform that—that he wanted. He thought I should.</p>
<p>For example, I would take my helmet off. When you’re out in the woods, you know, it’s really kinda hard to hear, and—and, um, be stealthy and crafty when you have this big ol’ thing on your head that’s covering your ears. So I’d take that off, and I would have the boys put—called “watch caps” or “balaclavas.” Well, he caught wind of that, and really, really, um, really, kinda hit the roof, and was determined that he was just going to kinda ruin my military career off of that, and, uh, the thing about him though: he was West Point, so he knew I was a West Point, and he said, “Well, let me give this,” you know—‘cause a lot of folks were really kinda rooting for me saying, “No. this guy is little bit kinda on the wild side maybe, but he’s really, really good at what he does, and so give him a chance.”</p>
<p>So what he did is like, “Okay, Lieutenant Sawyer. I’m gonna go on a mission with you, alright? And I’m gonna see if you’re as good as what people are sayin’.” And so, um, so he showed up and—and, of course, we have all our equipment, you know? For example, I would carry two radios, in order to communicate with higher headquarters, plus also my—my soldiers that[sic] were all spread out all over kind of Korea.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>And, um, so between all that equipment, it’s maybe 70-80 pounds of weight, and so he showed up with just his little—this kind of thing, with his water and his radio, and said, “Okay, Lieutenant Sawyer. Let’s go,” and I’m like “Sir, where’s—where’s all your equipment?” And he’s like, “I got my Jeep tailing me, so, um, don’t worry about me. You just show me what ya got.” So, um—so I’m like, “Okay.”</p>
<p>So I— told my platoon sergeant “Alright. Sergeant Iver[sp]. Get ready. Um, we’re gonna climb the tallest mountain I can find,” and, um— and so we did, and, um, a lot—a lot of it was climbing on our hands and knees, and it took most of the day to climb the mountain, and we got to the top, and then we set up camp, and, um—and then I deployed all my different scouts, and—and, um—and basically, we did such a good job that the colonel changed his mind, and, um—and so therefore, um—but then the next continuation of that is that the Rangers came recruiting to Korea, and, um, all my friends were like, “Rangers. That’s—that’s the pinnacle. We wanna go. Um, we wanna be a Ranger.” so, like, “Let’s go, Curt.” and I’m like, “No. I have only about a month left in Korea and I already have orders.” I’m gonna go to Fort Smith, Arkansas, with a—it’s called a “Joint Readiness Training Center”—the JRTC. I’m fine with that. I’ve come to grips with that. I’m kinda looking forward to it. I’m not really much interested in this Rangering stuff, and so they’re like, “Well, at least come along with us.” And, um, so I went with them, and I interviewed with the Rangers, and then, um, eh, strangely enough, I was the only one that—that was accepted, and was offered, um, an invitation to join the Rangers, and so once that happened, I thought, <em>Okay. Well, I guess this is too good </em><em>an offer to refuse, and </em>so I ended up going to Savannah with the 1<sup>st</sup> Ranger battalion.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay, and what was your job in the 1<sup>st</sup> Ranger battalion. What was—what did you do exactly?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, yeah. Uh, Rangers are—are part of [United States Army] Special Operations [Command], and so my job was a platoon leader to lead, and—and their big platoons, so it’s roughly 55, um—55 men, and, um, our job was different things: to raids, to do ambushes. We would—we would parachute in most of the time and—and do our—do our mission, and then get extracted. um, sometimes, it would be fast strobing—it’s called “fast strobing,” where you have a helicopter that comes in, and then basically, you jump out, grab the rope, and—and you slide down, and jump out of the way, and the helicopter keeps moving like this, so you go, and you kinda just go, and you assemble and move off.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Um, so ambushes, raids. Um, a big part of it was, um, airfield seizures—airfield—airfield takes downs, which is actually pretty cool, ‘cause we had a special vehicles, that, um—special vehicles Land Rovers, that were made just for the Rangers, that would fit into the airplanes. So the [Lockheed] C-130s [Hercules] and the [Lockheed] C-141s [Starlifter] [<em>sniffs</em>]. Um it—it’s called “Jeeps” and “bikes.”</p>
<p>So, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] it’s pretty cool. So you’d drop the ramp of the—of the aircraft, and then you’d drive your Jeeps up there, and we also had dirt bikes, and, um, our job was, um, once other members of the platoon would go in—jump in, and secure the airfield, make sure there was no debris on the runway—We would come in, drop the ramps, disembark, drive off, and then establish blocking positions, so that the enemy could not retake the—the airfield. So different things. Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And, um, uh, did you see any combat at all?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>No, I did not. When I was in Korea—Korea—since Korea has just kind of a—kind of a special mission—because we’re at peace, but we’re not really—um, I did not go to the First, um, Iraq War.<a title="">[5]</a></p>
<p>When I was in Ranger School, um—I remember in January of ’91, we were doing a patrol at Eglin Air Force Base, and so we had just jumped into our—our rubber boats, called “Zodiacs” or “RB-15s,” and we were doing a mission. It was the last mission of that phase of Ranger School, and we were all just really tired and really weak, and, we just wanted to be kinda done with it—just done with it, and, um, course, it’s night. All the—all the missions you do in the military are—are at night, um, and so we had just pushed off, and we were just about to start rowing, and then this big ol’ colonel—this big ol’ colonel that[sic] I have never seen before—he must have of weighed 250 pounds—came running and jumped into our—our boat, and then, we—we could see just enough in the moonlight that he looked like he had some rank that kinda outranked us, or we were a little bit different, and he was listening to a radio, and that’s when we had first started bombing. That’s when we first went into Iraq, and he was listening to it and said, “Alright, Rangers. This is for real now. We’re goin’ to war. Every single one of you.” you know, gave some colorful adjectives, um, “Will be over there, um, inside of two months. So you better that this seriously,” which we already were, But, um—and so we were momentarily kinda pumped, you know, because when you’re in the military and that sorta thing that we’re doing, you kind of—you wanna go into combat, you want go where the danger is, but then after that, we were mostly worried about this big ol’ colonel was just gonna make our jobs harder to row, and—and, so, um, that’s what we’re mostly worried about.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, did you stay in touch with your family, while you were over there?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Well, um, that gets in the story of my wife. So do you wanna hear about this? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I won’t tell you all the details.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>But, um—so when I graduated from West Point, my parents sent my best friend and I to a trip to Cancún, and so, um, we had to go to a travel agent. My mother, for some reason or another, got so upset with our normal travel agent. So we said, “We’re just not gonna go to her anymore. We’re gonna go fine a different travel agent.”</p>
<p>So back then you didn’t really have the Internet. You couldn’t pull up your—your PDA and see where the—we just went driving, and so we saw a “travel agent,” and Mom said “That’s it. That’s the one.” [<em>sniffs</em>] And so we walk in there, and there was this really, really pretty girl with really, deep green eyes, and I’m like, <em>Hello.</em> I didn’t say that.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>I was thinking that, right? And, um, so we sat down, and she arranged it, and I’m looking at her, and I’m thinking <em>Wow</em>, you know? Um, I—I—I think, um—and you can kinda tell, she kinda was mildly intrigued with me—not overwhelmed—but mildly, and so, um—and so when I get back from Cancún, I’m gonna come back and I’m gonna ask this—this lady out, Right? And so then when I came back, um, I—I remembered her, and I had every intention, and then I end up meeting this other girl, who actually was a cop in Miami[, Florida], who was also a lawyer, but she put the law thing on the side, and she wanted to work a cop in one of the most dangerous areas of Fort Lauderdale[, Florida], and so I got kinda sidetracked with that nonsense for about five months, until was finally able to get outta that—get out of that. That was really not a good relationship.</p>
<p>So then I got my orders to go to Korea, right? And, um—so I had to fly commercial, so I went back to the travel agent, and then when I walked in, I’m like <em>Hello.</em> I—I kinda, like, forgotten [<em>laughs</em>] all about her, but then when I saw those pretty green eyes, I[sic] like, <em>Whoa</em>, you know? And it was a mess. I was young, right? We were all young, and, um—and so then, I ask her out, and, um, so we dated for a week, and then I went to Korea, and the way Korea is, back then, you really don’t come back, and there really wasn’t a whole lot of e-mail back then. Um, so, we wrote. We hand wrote letters, back and forth, and she saved every single of them. She still has them. We’ve been married 22 years. She saved every single one of ‘em, and I was—and I was faithful to her, um, until about eight months through, and then—and I know this sounds funny—I mean, [inaudible— I met the colonel’s daughter. Literally, I met the colonel’s daughter, and, um, [<em>laughs</em>] and so, um, started dating her, and so I wrote Lisa [Sawyer]—my Lisa—a “Dear Lisa” letter, you—you know? And bought a 12-pack, and got liquored up, and wrote it, and she saved that doggone letter</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] And she still has that doggone letter. So alright—and anyways, so I’m like, “Sorry. Met the colonel’s daughter. It’s been nice knowing ya.” we only dated for a week. What’s the big deal, right? And, um [<em>sniffs</em>]—and that was that. So the colonel’s daughter came back—she was in Texas. I came back, and, um, thought everything was good, right? Unbeknownst to me, while I was I Korea, my parents took Lisa up under their wings, and really—they really like her, and so they stated to take her to church with them, and—and really kind of mentored her, and developed this close relationship.</p>
<p>So when I got back I said, um, “Dad and Mom,” uh, you know, “Lisa and I are no longer together.” “Well, what happened?” So I explained it all, and they’re like, “Well, that’s no good.” um, “That’s not the way to do it. We’re not happy with—with that, but that’s your decision, but you do not do that via a letter.” I’m like, “Alright. I’ll call her.” and they’re— “Nope. You gotta go see her and tell her face to face that you’re sorry.” And, um, and but you’re formally— I’m formally ending the relationship. They’re pretty old school. Um, I respect that now. At the time I was like, <em>Ugh</em>.</p>
<p>So I call Lisa up, and said “Lisa, this is Curt. Um, I—I wanna come see you.” She hung up on me. So I went back to my parents, and said, “Hey, I’m off the hook. She doesn’t wanna talk to me.” They’re like, “No, no, no.” [<em>laughs</em>]. “You’re a Ranger. It doesn’t work that well. Figure out a way.” So I called her back, said “Lisa,” you know, “The way my parents are. They won’t get off my back, until I come see you. Can I come see you? Just, eh, five minutes. Don’t even have to walk in the door. Just need to see you, check the block, then my parents are off my back. Help me out.” She was like, “Okay. Come over.”</p>
<p>So I went over to see her. She opened out, uh—the door, and I’m like, <em>Hello</em>, you know? The—I know, and, um, she ended up inviting me in. so, um—and so the long story short of it is: um, I broke it off with the colonel’s daughter, and then Lisa and I started dating again, and we got married six months later, and, um, so even with all that nonsense of how that started out, um, eh, she’s just been a blessing, and I’ve been absolutely faithful to her for 22 years, and she’s just more than I deserve. So that was kinda that.</p>
<p>Then the colonel’s daughter, right? So she was flying into Orlando, but flying out of Fort Myers. So I still had to go pick her up, and she was pissed at me. She was pissed. So I went to pick her up, didn’t speak a word for like three-quarters of the trip, and then the floodgate’s going, “How could you do this?” I mean, and, uh, I’m like, “What can I say? I’m sorry. I know I—it’s on me,” you know? So then, I put her on the plane and—and that was it. No more drama.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Okay. Um, what did you do when you—after, with your wife and—meeting her—what did you do after coming home from Korea and after you got out of the service? Like, what did you do afterwards?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, um, when I came back—so I did the Rangering thing for a while in Savannah, and, um, deployed quite a bit. Did a lot of, um—did a lot of trainings—did a lot of training. Really enjoyed it, really enjoyed the Rangers, and really enjoyed the Army. Um, When I was at West Point—even though I really appreciated my West Point experience and I’m very proud of it, very proud of the mission it has, and what—the impact it continues to have—but I said, <em>You know, if the Army is anything like West Point, then I want nothing to do with it. I’m just gonna do my time, and I’m going to get </em>out, and, um, the Army was completely different from the West Point, for the most part, and, uh, then I got out, um, from West Point into the Army, I—I tried all the stuff that I was taught. You know, it’s gotta be formal and—and all this sorta thing, and they laughed at me. Like, “Get over yourself, Lieutenant. That’s just not the way it works.” Well, I’m like, “Okay. How does it work?” “Just be yourself, just lead the men, just lead, alright?” I’m like, “Oh, okay. Well, that’s great.” so I scrapped all this stuff. It—it really wasn’t scrapping all the stuff, but it was truly being a leader and taking charge, and, um—so yeah, um, therefore, I really, really, um, really enjoyed the military. Um, really enjoyed what the Rangers did and what they stood for.</p>
<p>Um, Lisa and I got married while I was still in the military, and then um, we wanted to start a family and that sorta thing. So, um, decided to get out, and then after that, went into the, um—the private sector. Worked for three Fortune 500 companies for 14 years, before I came to UCF.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Now, you really seemed to enjoy the Army. What was your most memorable experience? Or something you really enjoyed in it? Like, what was—like maybe a good story, or hanging out with your friends? What was something you really, really enjoyed?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, hm.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>It can be multiple. It doesn’t just have to be one.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, you know, I—I really, um—when I was with the Rangers, um, we de—we went and, um, trained with the French Foreign Legion, um, in Corsica, France. So, um, three companies of the, um—of the batta—um, three platoons of the company went to Belgium, and they did their training, and my platoon was selected to go and train with the Legionnaires, and, um, that was really cool, because not many military—not many American units are able to do that—to lay claim to training with the French Foreign Legion, which, when you’re in military circle, that’s—they’re well-known. They’re pretty hardcore. Um, Rangers—we considered ourselves hardcore, so it’s, —it was kinda cool for two hardcore entities to get together and train together.</p>
<p>They trained differently from us. Um, by that, I’ll give an example. We were running a live fire, and, um—in France—and kinda showing them American tactics, and right in the middle of that—American tactics—the—the military officers are very much involved in that—coordinating, that sorta thing. My counterpart—my French counterpart pulled me off the side and said, “Hey, Curt,” you know? He didn’t call me Curt. It was Lieutenant Sawyer. “We gotta go over here and do lunch.” I’m like, “What is that?” [<em>laughs</em>]. “What do you have in the basket?” And he pulled out a loaf of bread, and he pulled out some cheese, and he pulled out a bottle out a bottle of wine/ and he was kinda just wanting to sit up on that p—hillside and just kinda watch it all, and I’m like, “Thank you for the offer, but I can’t do that. I got live bullets flying down range, and it’s a very dangerous situation, and I need to be…” so he—he was—was just different tactics, and the other thing I would say that’s kinda interesting is that we—we actually parachuted with them, you know? They had these old planes, and we looked at the plane—My Rangers all looked at the plane, and were, “We’re gonna jump out of that thing?” It’s called a [Transall] “C-160.” It looked old. It was old, and, um—and they were like, “Yup, and we were like, “Okay,” you know? And so we waited, and we sat there on the tarmac out on the airfield, and we waited and we waited, and we’re like, “Where are the pilots?” and they’re like, “They’re still, um, having lunch.” and so they were inside having lunch, and drinking wine, and kinda getting half crocked. So when they came out, they were kinda a staggering a little bit, and, um, I’m like, “We’re not gonna jump with these guys. It’s—it’s a little bit…”</p>
<p>Plus, there’s a thunderstorm coming, the wind was picking up. When you—when you jump out of airplanes, the one thing you don’t want to do it jump out when the wind is blowing too hard, because you can’t control were you land, and, um—and basically they said, “Well, I thought Americans were tough,” you know? “You gonna let a—a little wind, a little wine kinda…” so, of course, we had to, and so we went up and—and we jumped, and, um, it was really, really windy. What they do is they throw a—it’s called a “dummy.” Um, it’s—it’s kind of, you know—it’s a stuffed—supposed to simulate a—a man—a grown man, and they throw it out, and then, wherever it goes, they adjust where the jumpers go out, and generally, you—the best case scenario: you throw the dummy out and the dummy just goes straight down. This time, he threw the dummy and the dummy went <em>wick</em> with the wind, and we’re like, “Whoa.” And so we jumped, and, um—and—and the wind is just taking us haywire, and, um, outside the compound—the compound was rimmed with—with [inaudible] or wire, and all that sorta thing, and, um—and as we’re going down and—and thinking, <em>Well, this is gonna really kinda be painful</em>, I saw my platoon sergeant just go <em>fwoomp</em>. He just was dropping like a rock, and I’m like, <em>Whoa. What’s going on with that?</em> And so I looked at him, and he figured out a way to really kinda make his parachute drop a lot faster. Basically, pulled his risers down, put his feet in ‘em, pushed them down, and it made him just go down. So I’m like, <em>Let me try that</em>. So I did it. So he and I were the only ones to land kinda where we were supposed to, and all the rest of the boys landed in the wire, or on the roofs, and on trees, and all that, and it took us the rest of the day to clean us all up, but nobody got hurt, and, um—so yeah. Things like that. Just kind of hardcore training, and, um, strong relationships, and, um, just standing ready to kinda serve our country, whenever we were called.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>And you said you made a lot of friends at West Point. Um, do you stay in contact with people from West Point? Or any people from the Rangers, as well?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer <br /></strong>Yeah, I do still. Some, you know—over—over the course of 20 years, you know, things drift, people change. That’s one things we really noticed is that we’ve changed. My wife and I really changed, and so, um, what used to interest us, just in terms of likes and—and [inaudible] and that sort of thing, they really—not so much anymore, so—inevitably too, but, yes, we have kept in touch with some of my classmates. Some of them are still in. some of them are now getting to the point they’re—they’re, um, becoming generals, brigadier generals—which is kinda cool, ‘cause, you know, we remember each other from just doing spirit missions at West Point, and getting hazed, and just doing silly things, and getting trouble over it, and that’s[sic] the memories a lot of us have, and now they’re—they’re national leaders, you know? A lot of my classmates have gone on and are part of the NSA [National Security Agency], and CIA [Central Intelligence Agency], and FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation], and—and, um, into politics, and—and really had done well for themselves. So, yeah. It’s kinda cool to keep up with them. Um, Facebook, obviously, we see a lot. A lot of my classmates have children that are now at West Point, so, um—so, yeah. It’s kinda cool.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, has[sic] your experiences in the Army impacted your life?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Sure. Um, inevitably. One: it was just, uh—I think with anybody that that’s in, it’s just a special time. It’s just a really special time, because you’re so focused. One: you—I don’t think you will find anybody—you will—it will—rarely, that you will find someone that doesn’t really, really strongly believe in the mission of what we did, and so a lot of times, what we do—we go into the business world, we go in the corporate world, we—we get jobs in that sorta thing, and say, “Well, what’s your mission? What is your purpose?” and well, if you’re in the corporate world, it is to make somebody else money. It’s to make money. So you—you put that and you stack that against serving and honoring and protecting my country. Well, it’s kinda hard to compare with that. So when you put that—people strongly believe in that—then everything has a greater sense of urgency, just in terms of training, and—and awareness, and wanting to—to hone your craft, In order to be able to stand ready, when you’re called</p>
<p>So, yeah. It’s just kind of a special time, and, um—and certainly, some of the characters—the—the discipline—discipline, and the focus, and, you know—and the—the mentality that you’ll never give up, ‘til you accomplished the mission, you know? The mission manifests itself in many different ways, depending on what you do, but still, at the end of the day, still an objective or a mission, and the military just teaches you how to be creative in how you’re going to figure out how to do it.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>So that makes sense?</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Yes, yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Um, well, um, we are getting to the end. So, um, would you advise anyone else, um, today to enlist? Since you enlisted, would you advise anybody else who would like to enlist that it’s a good thing, a bad thing?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Yeah, I think it’s a great thing. You know, there’s[sic] two different ways about going about it. One is through the officer, um—through the officer channel. The other is through enlisted, you know? And so each have its attractiveness for—depending on what people’s goals are.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>You know? So I always wanted to do the officer thing, just because I wanted—I wanna be a leader, you know? You—you’re either a leader, or you’re kinda not. So, if you’re a leader, you kinda wanna be right in the middle of things, and—and you have more impact as an officer, generally. Um, um, I—I know as an NCO—a non-commissioned officer—you can still have that, but it takes longer to get that so, but certainly, as enlisted, I think that’s a very noble profession. Um, and it certainly helps with the GI Bill, and benefits, [U.S. Department of] VA [Veterans Affairs] care. A lot of folks don’t think about that from an early age.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>But once you serve in the military, you have access to VA—Veterans Administration care the rest of your life, and, um, that’s kinda a bid deal, and a lot of the other benefits that come along with it. So that’s not the primary reason why you should join, but certainty, I think it’s part of the consideration, and, um, the other is: there’s not a whole lot of pensions around anymore. If you do your 20 years in the military, then you get a pension, and, um—so, yeah. I would strongly encourage folks that[sic]—that[sic] are really, truly want to serve their country to—to consider it, and—regardless whether it’s Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard—all that. I’ve never been one to say, “Well, it’s gotta be Army only.” Yeah. We all serve.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Uh, is there anything else you want to talk about? Any stories you wanna tell us? Anything that comes to mind?</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Hm, no. I don’t think so.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>No? Okay. Well, I would like to thank you for sharing your story with us, and myself, and the UCF community, and we will be in touch with you once the copy of the interview is done.</p>
<p><strong>Sawyer<br /></strong>Okay. Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Dunn<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Representative.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Representative.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Legally named Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy III.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Sabalauski Air Assault School (TSAAS).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Also known as the Persian Gulf War, First Gulf War, Gulf War I, Kuwait War, and Iraq War.</p>
</div>
</div>
45th Parallel North
75th Ranger Regiment
Air Assault Badge
Air Assault School
Airborne School
aircraft
airplanes
alcohol
alcoholic beverages
Army Air Assault School
Army Airborne School
Army Ranger
balaclava
bugle notes
C-130
C-141
C-160
Community Veterans History Project
Connie Mack
Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy II
Cornelius Alexander McGillicuddy III
Corsica, France
cows
Curt Sawyer
CVHP
Demilitarized Zone
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Department of Veterans Affairs
deployments
DMZ
Dojuan Sawyer
DPRK
DZ
Ed Hoyt
Edison Community College
education
Eglin AFB
Eglin Air Force Base
enlistment
fast strobing
firstie
Florida SouthWestern State College
Fort Benning, Georgia
Fort Myers, Florida
Forty-Fifth Parallel North
French Foreign Legion
GI Bill
Guard Post Ouellette
Itaewon, Yongsan-gu, Seoul, South Korea
Iver
Jeep
Joint Readiness Training Center
JRTC
Jump School
Korean War
Land Rovers
line platoons
Lisa Dojuan
Lockheed C-130 Hercules
Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
military benefits
military education
military training
North Korea
Officer Basic Corps
parachutes
planes
plebe years
plebes
R&R
Ranger
Ranger Regiment
Ranger School
RB-15
Republic of Korea
rest and recuperation
Robin Dunn
ROK
Sabalauski Air Assault School
San Francisco, California
Savannah, Georgia
scout platoon
scout platoons
Seoul, South Korea
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
Seventy-Fifth Ranger Regiment
soju
soldiers
South Korea
Special Operations Command
Tennessee
training
Transall C-160
TSAAS
U.S. Army
U.S. Army Special Operations Command
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
United States Military Academy at West Point
USASOC
USMA
VA
veterans
Veterans Affairs
watch caps
West Point
yearly
Zodiac
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/568a371c7d9a15e61420e9cc47801acb.pdf
91becf0a983b24e5f0ec57c4729e3381
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of William Reuter
Alternative Title
Oral History, Reuter
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Simulation
Description
An oral history interview of William Reuter (b. 1961), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1979 until 2012. Reuter was born in Camden, New Jersey on April 21, 1961. He served in Libya during the Action in the Gulf of Sidra and in the fjords of Norway. Reuter achieved the rank of Captain, earned a Legion of Merit, and served as Executive Officer (XO) at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD) at Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Daniel Bradfield on March 10, 2014. Interview topics include Reuter's experiences as XO at NAWCTSD, the simulation industry, Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando, the Lone Sailor Memorial Project, and applying to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:38 Background<br />0:01:40 Joining the Navy and active duty in warzones<br />0:05:20 Executive Officer at Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division<br />0:09:35 Simulation industry<br />0:15:05 Post-Navy career and lessons learned from naval experience<br />0:16:59 Naval Training Center Orlando and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:19:07 National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Abstract
Oral history interview of William Reuter. Interview conducted by Daniel Bradfield at Central Florida Research Park in Orlando, Florida on March 10, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
12-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida
Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Reuter, William
Bradfield, Daniel
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-10
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-10
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
137 MB
165 KB
Medium
21-minute and 23-second DVD audio/video recording
12-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Economics Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Daniel Bradfield and William Reuter.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Today is March 10<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing [William] “Bill” Rotto[sic]—Reuter, who served in the United States Navy from 1979 through 2010?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>2012.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>2012. Um, they, uh—Mr. Reuter served during the Cold War and completed his service as a…</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Captain.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Captain. Um, my name is Daniel Bradfield. We are interviewing Mr. Reuter as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Reuter, can you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter <br /></strong>I was born in [April 4<sup>th</sup>,] 1961 in Camden New Jersey.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>My dad owned a mobile home business in, uh, Key West, Florida, which is where I grew up, and, uh, my mother, uh did all kinds of different things, including deal with us.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, what did you, uh—do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I have two younger brothers and, uh—one of them in Pennsylvania and the other down in the Keys.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I went to school in Key West. Uh, grew up in a trailer park, because we owned trailers and trailer parks, and so, uh—but, uh—all—all throughout my life in Key West.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, basically, I was a student—I was a high school student, and received an [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] ROTC scholarship out of—out of Key West High School, and then went straight to UF [University of Florida] to, uh, start my journey in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, why did you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I wanted to fly airplanes. I wanted be an astronaut.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, do you have any other family members in the service?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I had an uncle that was in the Air Force, uh, but that’s about it.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Very, very supportive.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>As an officer, my boot camp was really going through the Reserve Officer[sic] Training Corps program at UF. So I didn’t attend a formal boot camp, like many of the enlisted sailors that you’ve interviewed.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you ever see active duty in a warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, only on, uh, Line of Death in Libya, and, uh, in the Norwegian fjords, uh, against Soviet, uh, reconnaissance, uh, and bomber aircraft, but not in the current [Persian] Gulf conflict.<a title="">[1]</a></p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, do you have any stories you’d like to share about those encounters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter <br /></strong>Well, I mean, it’s always fun seeing people that, you know, think differently from you, and back in the [19]80s, certainly, we saw the Soviet Union as, uh—as sort of an enigma. It was very, very mysterious, because they were in this whole different, you know, behind the—Steel Curtain, you know? And so, uh, we had a lot of curiosity, and—and, uh, we’d look back at each other in airplanes, and here we are up in the middle of nowhere, and we just con—continue to have that kind of curiosity. Most of my stories having to do with, uh, stress and overcoming stress in the service have more to do with landing aircraft—landing aircraft on aircraft carriers at night. Those sorts of things. Because those are often, uh, scarier than most other things that an aviator would encounter.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Do you have any stories about any close calls while trying to land on an aircraft carrier?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Certainly. Uh, well, I can tell you that, uh, at one point, I was—I had had a, uh, problem—what we call a “bleed air fuel leak,” which can create a fire, and so I had lights in the cockpit that were saying that there was excessive heat in the engine compartment. Uh, and it was—it’s what they call “one step short of a fire.” And a fire out on the aircraft carrier, when there’s really nowhere else to go, and, In this case, the aircraft carrier was so far off of any coast, that we were doing what you call “blue water op[eration]s.” “Blue water ops” meaning you’re going nowhere but back to the carrier, or the aircraft is going in the ocean. So we had to think real quick[sic]. We had just launched off catapult, so we were still very heavy, and we couldn’t land on the carrier right away. Carrier read—wasn’t even ready to catch us right away. So, uh—so we had to do, uh, some— real, uh, quick emergency things. Cockpit was getting very, very hot. Uh, they estimated it was around 130 degrees, uh, in the cockpit, and, um, we had to, uh—had to bring it back aboard the carrier, and—and, uh, did that, and got out of the airplane, and went down, and had me a cheeseburger. Because, uh, that’s one of the ways that we aviators deals[sic] with—deal with stress.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you receive any special commendations or medals?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /><br /></strong>Uh, lots in the Navy, certainly. A couple of Legions of Merit medals, uh, which I am very, very grateful for. Uh, most of my accolades though, I can tell you—like most other sailors, I believe, would say—and that is: it’s not only due to them personally. None of these awards, uh—though you wear them as a personal decoration—a decoration, most of the time, they are as a result of the team you were on and the people you served with. Uh, But I was very fortunate to get a—a good number of accolades, uh, in the Navy, Including two commands. Uh, my—my biggest role, before this role down here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], uh, was—it’s Commanding Officer and Chief Test Pilot of the squadron up at [Naval Air Station] Patuxent River, Maryland, Where I flew as an [McDonnell Douglas] F[/A]-18 [Hornet]<a title="">[2]</a> test pilot.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Uh, when were you assigned to NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I got here in, uh, January of 2008. So—and as I—as I moved into the role as Executive Officer, which is the second-in-command.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Did you know the—did you know about the region, militarily or other, before coming to NAWCTSD Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>All I knew about Orlando, uh, other than knowing a little bit of what NAWCTSD did and the—the—I did not know or appreciate the whole modeling and simulation cluster we had here. I knew there was a base,<a title="">[3]</a> when there was a boot camp,<a title="">[4]</a> and everything like that, and the nuke school,<a title="">[5]</a> But I did not know a lot about what NAWCTSD did, other than produce the aviation simulators that I was fortunate enough to fly.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your first impressions of the base?<a title="">[6]</a> Or—or the surrounding area?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was very impressed with the—the—the—the proximity of everything. I was impressed that we were really close to the Army and we were really close to the Air Force and Marine Corps, and I was astounded with the intimacy of the relationship with the University of Central Florida, uh, and—and continued to enjoy that relationship throughout my tenure at NAWCTSD.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>How did that compare to other bases you have been stationed at?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>There’s absolutely nothing like this area right here. There—there are no—no entities, within the [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense], that duplicate what we have here. What we have here is a clear synergistic effect, not only based on proximity. You can put anybody in a building next to another entity and not gain the kind of synergies we get here from the partnerships and the relationships that we have across academia, and industry, and now these DOD activities.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your first days at NAWS—NAWCTSD like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I came in with—wearing civilian clothes, ‘Cause I was actually a, uh—in a—in a class. So this class had you wearing civilian clothes. So people didn’t know that I was the guy that was gonna come in and eventually be in charge. So it was actually very cool, ‘cause I could have this sort of <em>Brubaker</em> approach to it, Where [Henry] Brubaker was the guy that[sic] went into the prison as the warden and he went in as an inmate. So I kinda went in in that underground kind of incognito way, and it was great, ‘cause I got to hear the conversations. I got to understand a little bit more about the culture/ but it is the most unique place that I have ever served in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What were your primary responsibilities while you were at NAWCTSD?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was the Executive Officer, who is the second-in-command, so responsible for pretty much everything that happens, uh, at NAWCTSD, and the other thing that a lot people don’t rec—recognize is that when you’re the commanding officer, or the Executive Officer, of NAWCTSD, You are also the Executive Officer, Commanding Officer of NSA Orlando—the Naval Support Activity Orlando, which is the base. So all of the stuff that deals with the gates, and the guards, and any of the sort of anti-terrorism measures, or any of that kind of stuff when it comes to protection, You deal with in capacity as CO or the XO, so—Commanding Officer or Executive Officer—of NSA Orlando. So you really had two hats and two jobs.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>So, eh, what was a typical day like, um, when you were, uh, Executive Officer?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, a typical day as Executive Officer, uh, had a lot to do with, uh, a series of meeting, most of which were people that[sic] wanted a decision about one thing or another. Some of them were informational, but we tried to keep those to a minimum. Most of the time, I was given direction and—and providing guidance to people that were trying to, uh, make decisions. Uh, I—I tried to give them enough context to how I would decide, so that they could make decisions on their own and have my full faith, trust, and confidence, as they did so. So a lot of different things go on as you can imagine. Running, uh, a warfare center and a base, and so, there’s, uh, everything from acquisition stuff that has to be decided, to what, uh—to—to where we’re gonna—to what color carpet we’re gonna pick out. There’s just a lot of different things [<em>laughs</em>] that—you[?] pro—and anything in between that spectrum.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Um, can you tell us about the types of projects you worked on and what they aimed to accomplish?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>The things that I’m most proud of, and the thing that people need to understand is that: simulation—we talk about it, kind of, trying to create an environment that is the real thing, and, in this environ—in this world today— in the way that we train our airmen, our sailors, our soldiers, and our Marines, We have to create some really, really immersive environments, in order to generate the kind of suspension of disbelief. For people to go in there and actually get proficiency from these environments. I mean, there’s[sic] so many people playing video games and they’re dealing with such cool graphics and immersive effects that you really, really need to wow them, in order to create that environment, and in the aviation community, it becomes even harder, because you’re dealing with very dynamic technology and it’s not as easy to do that.</p>
<p>So what we decided to do in the Navy was really, really take hold of this whole idea of increasing the fidelity of our simulations. Whether it be better visuals, better motions, better all kinds of different things that you can do to generate, uh—to—to give them an environment where they could actually be trained, and so, we were—I was—I was fortunate enough to be there, from ‘08 to ‘12—from 2008 to 2012—where we made huge investments that we still continue to make, but it was really the—the tip of the iceberg, for the money that’s going into simulation and that is being taken out of a lot of the live exercises that we used to do that cost a lot of money and that required a lot of infrastructure, and you had to sustain that infrastructure. So that’s a—a cost that is per—you know, in perpetuity. So we’ve have really changed our mindset on simulation. That’s been the most important thing that I was a part of—of being able to do that in, uh, aviation, surface, subsurface, and other communities.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>In what ways have the simulation projects at NAWCTSD impacted other branches of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>So the Air Force, uh, is very, very big on simulation, as well. They’re—we do a lot of collaboration through—not only of the acquisitions that we do, you know? We—we go out and we buy a simulator, and we go to some of these industry partners that are in this area and around the country, and, in fact, the world, and we buy, you know, an aircraft simulator or we buy a ship simulator, or something like that, but what’s really cool is the collaboration that goes into the technical side of this, before we ever ask industry to give us a simulator. We inform each other, through symposia and the like, to understand better the science of learning, to understand better where the technology is going, So we can be leaning forward as a DOD—and not only as a DOD, but as other agencies around here. We still work with the [U.S.] Department of Homeland Security and with other agencies that have benefit from this technology training their workforce—whatever it might be. So that collaborative energy, and the fact that we have papers, and we have symposia that sort of continue to nurture that collective understanding of the technology and its merit in the science of learning. That’s what moves this needle forward for all of us. So that NAWC—it’s not only NAWCTSD, or PEO STRI [Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training and Instrumentation], or any of those entities. It is all those entities and their collective, uh, IP—intellectual property—to get together that gets moved forward.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think the future holds for simulation training in Central Florida?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Si—there is—there’s really no limit to what we can do with simulation and training in Central Florida. The fact that we have grown it, based on DODs demand, is very fortunate, but it is certainly not the limit to the application of this technology into other fields. We talk about transportation, we talk—modeling and simulating transportation, In order to understand where chokepoints are, to, uh, train people in dealing with different crises, to train emergency first responders, to train medical professionals. We’re already doing that at the VA [Veterans Health Administration] Sim[ulation] Learning[, Education and Research Network National Simulation] Center down here at Lake Nona, where [Lake Nona] Medical City is. We talk about construction simulation, So that we avoid, uh, costs of engineering changes and things like that, once we have gone into the construction phase, through just So many—education. There is so many applications of this simulation technology in—in moving forward. All of these industries.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think are the most important achievements or contributions of the simulation projects to technology and to the future of technology?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I think that the—the most important contribution was to give some other technologies an application that actually could affect an end-product. So if you think about digital media and graphics, alright? and some of the, um, some of the, uh—the stuff we’re doing with, uh—with extensive graphics—much—much higher definition graphics—There’s are a lot of different applications for those types of technologies. What we did was bring those technologies into, uh, a simulation, into creating a virtual environment, Such that we could add proficiency to people. We can do that in so many different ways, not only across DOD, but others, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfiels<br /></strong>When did you leave the Navy, and what did you do after you left?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>So I left the Navy in September of 2012, um, just—Not even two years ago now—And started my own consulting practice. I’ve also continued to work in the simulation industry and work with both companies in—in the simulation industry, as well as with folks like the [Metro Orlando] Economic Development Commission, and—and the Mayor’s office, and people that are moving forward this understanding of how simulation can grow and affect our economy. I was fortunate enough, in the very beginning of, uh—right after I retired, to assist in writing the strategic plan for modeling and simulation for Central Florida, and I can tell ya, more than anything we have a center of excellence. We need to grow and nurture it, even beyond the DOD, such that DOD just wants to be around it, because they recognize the kind of ecosystem we have here.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, he standard answer, of course, would be: honor, courage, and commitment, and they, uh—and those are our watchwords in the Navy, and the—the caliber of people that I have met—that I have lifelong friends, uh, that[sic] I’ve been 28 years in the Navy. You’ve met people in so many different stages of your career, and you continue to be in touch with them, and so, that sort of, uh—that’s sort of such a nurturing environment, and the fact that we were off and off of the aircraft carrier, and test flying up in Patuxent River, Maryland, Launching into some pretty hairy situations, uh, and—and came through it, and shared a beer at the end, uh, Just continues to nurture those relationships, and we’ve seen kids grow up together, and we’ve had a lot of fun, and so that’s been the most valuable piece for me.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>How has the NTC Orlando base or Central Florida region changed since the time you spent there?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>In my case, of course, that would be a little NA [not applicable], But I can tell you that I’ve, uh—because I didn’t spend the time at NTC—But I can tell you that, um, you know, what has been done at [Lake] Baldwin Park is phenomenal. No question about it, it has definitely one of the better repurposing of a base environment that, uh, has taken place in our entire country, when it comes to BRACs, and how people have responded to Base Realignment and Closure. Uh, I think what’s unfortunate—and what was unfortunate for me and my family—was when we came here and saw that there was really no evidence that the Navy had been there, and so hence, the rationale and the driver behind the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial Project.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit—when they revisit the site of the base and the LS[M]P memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I think, more than anything, they want to imagine—re—reimagine, especially ones that were stationed there, what that Grinder was like, to recognize that that is hallowed ground, and to be able to tell their descendants about the time that they spent here and the pride that they took in getting through that. Whether it had been the nuke school or whether it was RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]—you know, because there were a lot of Navy entities here, at that time, and so, they—people need to understand what the Navy meant to Orlando during those days. It was a big Navy town. People started and—and made businesses grow, as a result of the Navy being here during those times, and so, to have—and we’ve got such a tremendous amount of support from people way out of town, That have roots here in Orlando based on their time here at RTC, and so somehow, we have got to—got to memorialize that, and give them a chance to re-experience that and pass that on down the generations.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Is there anything else you would like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I tell ya, I’m just—I was very blessed from the word go. Um, you know, you’re talking to a kid that—that grew up running on coral in Key West, And—often barefoot—had a dream to be an astronaut. Ended up going through the whole program, into Test Pilot School, finalist for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], ended up coming here into a place that I had no idea how special it was, and I—I’m grateful for the relationships that we have built, and I have built personally, as a Navy guy, with the folks at UCF with president [John C.] Hitt and a lot of others in this community, uh, that truly, truly are a partnership community, and, uh, it was the best way to—to leave the Navy. Understanding, that one, my command was in my good hands and the Navy was in good hands but also to come out into this tremendous community that[?], um, I’ve learned more in the last four years being in the Navy, than, uh, arguably then I learned in the la—in the ten prior, Uh, for sure.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>When did you start your astronaut training?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, you—basically, what you do is you—as you—when you become a test pilot and you go through Test Pilot School, You are then, uh, afforded the opportunity to apply to NASA, and the thing—fortunately or unfortunately—when I was through that training and was applying for NASA, We had—had encountered a couple of really tough things. The [Space Shuttle] <em>Challenger</em> disaster, uh, certainly setback some—in 1986—se—or 1985<a title="">[7]</a>—setback some things pretty big, and then the [Space Shuttle] <em>Columbia</em> disaster was really the one that was tough. I mean, I had two buddies on the <em>Columbia</em> that day: uh, [William] “Willie” [Cameron] McCool and Dr. David [McDowell] Brown, uh, and that really slowed the manifest of space shuttle launches. So—so it was harder to get through the eye of the needle there, when it came to NASA. They weren’t taking as many people—all that kinda stuff. So I was a finalist three times. I—I’m very grateful for that, But at the end of the day, uh, somebody had other plans, and I have no problem with that, and I am very, very grateful that I got to come here.</p>
<p><strong>Bradfield<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Iraq War.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Now manufactured the Boeing Company as the Boeing F/A-18 Hornet.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[5]</a> Nuclear Power School.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[6]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[7]</a> Correction: January 28, 1986.</p>
</div>
</div>
Action in the Gulf of Sidra
aircraft
aircraft carriers
airplanes
anti-terrorism
astronauts
aviation
aviation simulations
aviation simulators
aviators
Baldwin Park
Base Realignment and Closure
Bill Reuter
bleed air fuel leak
blue water operation
Boeing F/A-18 Hornet
BRAC
Challenger disaster
Chief Test Pilot
cold war
college
colleges
Columbia
Columbia disaster
Commanding Officer
commendation
commendations
Community Veterans History Project
CVHP
Daniel Bradfield
David M. Brown
David McDowell Brown
education
Executive Officer
F-18
Henry Brubaker
Key West
Key West High School
KWHS
Lake Baldwin Park
Legion of Merit
Libya
Line of Death
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet
medals
memorials
military education
modeling
monuments
NAS Patuxent River
NASA
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Naval Air Station Patuxent River
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Support Activity
Naval Support Activity Orlando
Naval Training Center
Naval Training Center Orlando
NAWCTSD
Norway
NSA Orlando
NTC Orlando
outer space
Patuxent River, Maryland
pilots
planes
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Reserve Officers' Training Corps
ROTC
RTC Orlando
science of learning
Soviet Union
Soviets
Space Shuttle Challenger
Space Shuttle Challenger disaster
Space Shuttle Columbia
Space Shuttle Columbia disaster
SU
terrorism
Test Pilot School
test pilots
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Navy
UCF
UF
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
universities
university
University of Central Florida
University of Florida
USSR
veterams
veteran
wars
warzones
William C. McCool
William Cameron McCool
William Reuter
Willie McCool
XO
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/efd5049d910182e50916c3c85f53df44.pdf
b46eaec4a1988206e0a961500df2e88d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Philip Rogers
Alternative Title
Oral History, Rogers
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Philip Rogers (b. 1953), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1998. Rogers was born in the Bronx borough of New York City, New York, in 1953. He attended Lehman College for undergraduate school and Indiana University for graduate school. In May of 1978, Rogers was commissioned as an officer and assigned to teach engineering at the Nuclear Power School at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). After four and a half years, he became an Engineering Duty Office in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando on November 14, 2014. Interview topics include Rogers' background, becoming a commissioned officer, teaching at the Nuclear Power School at NTC Orlando, serving as an Engineering Duty Officer in Pearl Harbor, serving in the Naval Reserves, advanced training, the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em>, the Cold War, the University of Central Florida (UCF), his wife and family, and the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:31 Background<br />0:03:05 Becoming a commissioned officer<br />0:09:02 Pearl Harbor, Hawaii<br />0:10:41 Naval Reserves<br />0:11:36 Advanced training and the USS <em>Nathan Hale</em><br />0:15:24 Hawaii<br />0:17:26 Making suggestions and dry docking<br />0:18:37 Transition from active duty to Reserve<br />0:20:03 Naval mentors<br />0:22:09 Ronald Reagan, the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crises, and Bill Clinton<br />0:24:39 Final years in the Reserves and civilian life<br />0:25:54 Civilian attitudes towards the military <br />0:26:48 University of Central Florida and wife<br />0:29:06 Terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001<br />0:30:08 Lessons learned from the Navy and benefits of joining<br />0:32:48 Migrating to Orlando and working at UCF<br />0:34:29 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Philip Rogers. Interview conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando, Florida, November 14, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
20-page digital transcript of original 35-minute and 37-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Bronx, New York City, New York
Washington, D.C.
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Jensen Beach, Florida
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Rogers, Philip
Hiltz, Killian
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-14
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-14
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
306 MB
196 KB
Medium
35-minute and 37-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
20-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Killian Hiltz and Philip Rogers.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Today is, um—it is November 14<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Phil—Philip Rogers, um, who served in the Navy from 1978 through—to 1998. Mr. Rogers served as an instructor at the Naval [Nuclear] Power School. Uh, he retired as a Commander. My name is Killian Hiltz, I am interviewing, uh, Mr. Rogers as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans Community History Project. We are recording this interview, uh, at Orlando, Florida. Um, thank you, Mr. Rogers. Um, uh, where and when were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I was born in the Bronx[, New York City], New York, uh, in 1953.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, grew up in a modest, you know, tenant apartment. Went to public schools, um, two years of private schools, went—and then Lehman College, which is a ci—city school. Did that, uh—did that for, you know—through—and then I worked a little bit. Um, and probably when I was like 22, I went off to graduate school in Indiana.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was the private school like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It was good. It was a little more disciplined. The schools I was[sic] in was[sic] a little rough, so my parents took me out to a more, you know—less chance of getting hurt [<em>laughs</em>]—school. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was, um—what was college like, for you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I liked it. I was a commuter. I went back and forth on the train, uh, eh, because we didn’t have a car. So we—I travelled on the train to high school and to college for eight years. Uphill both ways—just joking [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, uh, so I traveled that way, uh, and did my four years there, and I got a degree in chemistry from, eh, um, Lehman College.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, you mentioned that you went to graduate school, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your gra—what was your grad…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I got a Master’s degree in chemistry, entomology, from Indiana University. I was in the PhD<a title="">[1]</a> program, but when the Navy came looking for people, I kinda said, <em>Well, I wanna do that.</em> so I kinda left with a Master’s degree and went on to, uh, um—the, um—took the Master’s and then went on to the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>My father was a laborer, worked in a baker[sic], and my mother was just stay-at-home—stay-at-home mom.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any siblings?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Brother. Still have a brother. Actually, he lives in Orlando. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—your brother also join the service?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, no. He never did. No.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, did, uh—did anyone in your family before you, uh, serve as enlisted or commissioned?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, my father was—was, um, enlisted in, uh, World—World War II. Um, and my grandfather was in World War I.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what branches did they serve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Army. Both of them, Army.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did they see combat?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yes. Both of them did. Uh, my—In fact, my grandfather had a Purple Heart, and, uh, my father didn’t get a medal, but he had—he had some kind of foot injury or something, but—yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, uh, what caused you to become a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it was a—it’s a long story. It was like, um— let’s see. Indiana University—it’s kind of cold up there—Bloomington, Indiana. It was like six degrees below zero [<em>sniffs</em>], and, uh, the Navy had a little brochure says—saying, “Would you like to fly to Orlando on the Navy this weekend?” Free. Orlando, Florida. So I said, “Sure.” I had no intention to go into the military—zero. So I went, “Okay. Fine.” so I signed up, and then I had to go take some tests, you know—you know, academic tests and physical tests, and, uh—and then they said,”Well, You know, Admiral [Hyman George] Rickover,” who is the Father of the Nuclear Navy, “would like to interview you in Washington D.C.,” you know, “Would —you—would you like to go?”</p>
<p>So they sent me to—first, let’s go back up. Before I went there, they—they told me I was going for an interview. So they showed me the school—so they sent me down here as promised for the trip down here, so I went to the trip in Orlando, and it was great. [Walt] Disney World—they took us to Disney World and showed us—the Nuclear Power School, by the way, was in Orlando, at that time, okay? Just up the road here, by Bennett Drive. Um, so they showed me the school, and it was like 80 degrees. It was really nice. They hooked me in, so I’m like, <em>I’d like to go there.</em> It was—it was an academic job, because, you know, I liked teaching, and it was an academic job, and, you know, I would get paid a lot more there as a graduate student, than as a graduate student. So, uh—so I said, “Okay. It sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So then I went to Washington D.C., uh, for an interview, and, uh, one thing you got to understand that in that the nuclear—in the nuclear program, it’s kind of a select program, and that the admiral that is in charge—the four-star admiral is about as high as you can go in the Navy. He interviews all the applicants, you know, that—that—that come into the program, and so you go there for a day of tests. Take a bunch of written tests, oral exams. They ask all kinds of physical questions, and—and then they ask how to explain things and they do that, and at the end, you go see Admiral Rickover—Hyman Rickover. So I go into this guy’s office, and he’s a four-star admiral, and he’s sitting in a chair. Very little man, probably 5’5”, uh, white grey hair, he was about 78, at the time, and, uh, he—so I sat down. I had long hair, I was a graduate student, I had no inkling of military at all in me.</p>
<p>So I sat down, and, uh, the Admiral says to me, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me and the Admiral says to me— um, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me, right? So the Admiral says to me, “Wha—what’s that? What’s that pin on your, uh, lapel there?” So I took it off and I said, “Well, um, this means I’m a member of the American Chemical Society.” And he jumped at me, and he says to me like this—he says, “Let me see that blicity pin.” ‘Kay? I don’t want to put any expletives on this tape, but he—but, uh, he said, uh, um, “Let me see that pin.” so I put it in his hand, and—and he said—looked at me in the eye—and he goes, “How do you know I know more chemistry than you do? Maybe I should keep this pin.” And I said, “Admiral, if that’s the case, then you can get your own pin.” Then he threw is back at me, and then he says, uh, “Did any of the girls tell you that you were good-looking?” I said, “Sure. All the time.” He says, “That’s a proposition. You don’t even know the facts of life. Get out of my office.”</p>
<p>So this was my interview with a four-star admiral. So I said, <em>Well, I dunno. I guess I didn’t get that job. </em>So I Walked down the hall, and this captain, that[sic] went in there with me, said, “Congratulations. The Admiral selected you to be an instructor at Nuclear Power School.” So I said, “Great.” so I signed up, finished my—my dissertation for my Master’s degree, and then I, uh—I came down to Orlando. Went—went to some school—uh, Officer School—Officer Indoctrination School, and then I came to Orlando in 1978. I was commissioned in March of 1978, I believe, and, um, —then I, Um, uh, came to or—Orlando in May. Went—went to some—in the school—I went to the school in between then about six weeks. So I—I arrived down here in like May of 1978—in Orlando, and I spent the next four and a half years here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your officer, uh, training like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>It wasn’t the standard training that—that you’d normally get. It’s kind of like training—‘cause we weren’t expected to stay in the Navy. We were expected to go in for our four, you know—our—our—our four-year promise, and then leave, Right? So it was very watered down, so to speak. It was not very rigorous as some—some. It was like the same training lawyers get, the doctors get, and—and nurses, the—the professional, you know—the training the professionals gets. It’s [inaudible] how do you—how you act like an officer, and—and, you know—so nothing—nothing too, uh, exotic.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your family and friends; reaction to you becoming a commissioned officer?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, that was funny, because my father was enlisted and he—he had some grumbling about officers. He goes, “I remember—I remember this officer made me salute him.” He goes, “He was a big jerk. I hope you’re not like that.” So [<em>laughs</em>]—so he was a little—he was proud, but yet, he was saying, you know, you gotta be a little humble, you know, when you’re doing this stuff too. So—But I think he was proud that—that I went in there, you know, and—and did it. So, like I said, I had no— I just did it, because hey, it was great. I wanted to go teach and the Navy’s got this job to go teach, you know? I said, <em>I’m not staying in. </em>I said, <em>Honest,</em> <em>no way I’m staying</em>, you know?</p>
<p>So then I did my four years. I taught thermodynamics, I taught nuclear physics, you know, regular classical physics, I taught chemistry, radiological—all the stuff, and the thing about that Nuclear Power School: they—they teach you how to teach a class, you know? They teach you how to talk to people, how to make eye contact, how to go back and forth and relate information. I still carry that—that talent to this day, with how they taught me how to do that. So, it was really—it was really good. So I really had—it was the best job of my life. I mean, it was, you know, basically, a day job. No deployment—nothing. It was great for four years. You know, unfortunately, you know, after four years, they want you to leave, ‘cause in the Navy, you get to move up or you move out. So—so that’s what happened.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>‘Kay. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What happened after those four years?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, after four years, normally, you get out, right? And this was right at the height of the Cold War, ‘round 19—it was around 1982, and they needed people with engineering background—not necessarily ship driving experience, but with some engineering background, and some knowledge of chemistry, physics—To work on shipyards, to help when the ships—Submarines come in [<em>sniffs</em>]. They help the submarines get ready for sea, and—and fix them, and things like that—to oversee that. So they asked if, you know, I would like to go do that, and I said, “Eh, I’ll think about it,” and then they said, “Would you like to go to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and do it?” [<em>laughs</em>]. So I said, “Hm. Okay. I’ll—that sounds good to me.”</p>
<p>So I did—I went into what is called the “Engineering Duty Officer Program,” so I went in—which is basically engineering. I—I was very restricted, because I’m colorblind. Eh, when I took my physical, I was actually—they determined that I was colorblind, so I could not drive a ship. So I was restricted as to what I could do. So, I mean—but I could do the engineering stuff, so I was—I became a Restricted Line Officer, which means you don’t drive the ships, but you can do a lot of other things naval officers do. So—so I did that.</p>
<p>I was—I went to Submarine School after that, I went to Engineering Du—Duty Officer School, and Nuclear Ship Superintendent School, which show you—show you how to manage repairs of a ship. Not that I would do the repairs myself, but I oversee the people doing it, right? And interface with the ship, as a—as a representative from the Navy to get[?] that, and I did that for about—about, uh, three years, right? And then—it was okay, but it wasn’t teaching. I really wanted to teach.</p>
<p>Um, so what—what I did after that time is: I—I—I got out of the Navy in 1986, but I stayed in the [Naval] Reserves, uh, as a—as a[sic] Engineering Duty Officer. Oh, also, on that time while I was on active duty, I got my Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins, which is, you know specialized in submarine repair, and then, after that, um, I got out of the Navy and tended my resignation, but I stayed on—I stayed in the Reserves, and then, I came down to, uh—went down to, um, South Florida. I took a job at a nuclear power plant. I was an instructor, right? Teaching down there, and I stayed in the Reserves, and I drilled for the next 12 years. I—I drilled, uh—drilled my—my—from Jensen Beach, which is about 130 miles from here, to Orlando. I drilled every week—once every week—and two weeks a year, and I—I went up through the chain there, [inaudible], and got my rank there, up to—and made Commander in the Reserves in 1994.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong><br />Uh, what, uh—what was your schooling like, when you were going through the Submarine and Engineering [Duty Officer] Schools—Oh, um, when you were still in the active? What was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, that was, uh—it wasn’t—I mean, it was okay. It was a—was a—it was kinda challenging, because, Uh, you had to—you had to go and know—know how to—and they put you in a room, and they start leaking the pipes, and, you know, you gotta, you know, repair the pipe, so you don’t drown and stuff like that, and then, you know that—you learn a little bit about navigation and how to—how to basically, uh, go through it. I was a little bit senior. I was a Lieutenant when I went through, and most of them were ensigns that[sic] went through there, but, Uh, you know, it was basically how to respond to emergencies on submarines, and then, you know, dive the ship up and down. I was able to do that[?]. I did a—I was able to surface the ship and dive the ship. I did that several times on the simulator and—and in real life— in a real submarine.</p>
<p>You know, and one thing that I did not—I neglected to mention is that I was on a submarine for two months, as part of my qualification program. So I was on the <em>Nathan Hale</em>, and we went out—and I can’t tell you where we went—but we went out somewhere in the ocean, and we had missiles on the ship. Uh, we—that was a deterrent patrol that I had to go through to get my qualification, you know, to do that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So—and then—then that’s [inaudible]. Nuclear Ship Superintendent School is very technical. It was like how to ma—manage radiation. The Navy is very sensitive to—to nuclear safety and the shipyards have to be—everything perfect. So they want people who are going to follow the rules and know what they’re doing. So they send us to special school to—to kinda—to kinda help us understand how to manage this[sic] nuclear, uh, projects at the shipyard.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what, uh— was your, uh—the submarine’s class? Do you—do you know?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yes, it’s a—it’s a—it was an SSBN [Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines]. It was a ballistic nuclear submarine, uh, it’s since, has been way since decommissioned. It was a pretty old ship, when I was on it Um, so it carried <em>x</em> number of missiles, and, uh, I ‘m not sure if that is classified anymore, but it’s so many missiles, and what we did was just go out there and wait—wait for launch orders, which, thankfully, never came. So I never really fought in hot war, but I was in the Cold War, which kinda was preventing the big war [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was it like—what was life like on the submarine?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, it was very, uh, interesting. It was kind of lonely. Uh, Now, I knew I was only going to be on it for like one patrol, so it was okay, you know? It was interesting. Got to do some—some interesting things, but, for the most part, you really eat a lot. They have—they have—you can eat up to four times a day. It’s just like a cruise ship, but you work [<em>laughs</em>], right? So you have breakfast, you have lunch, you have dinner, and then you have MIDRATS [Midnight Rations] at night, depending on your shift. They always got meals going on in a submarine, so you can eat, eat, eat, and I actually gained 15 pounds, you know, on the submarine, you know? So it was a—it was a bit of a weight curve, trying to get the weight off [<em>laughs</em>], but, uh, you know, it was good. I got the up and down—A lot of stuff in the submarine, you don’t know everything, because a lot of it’s classified, like what they targeted—the stuff—I couldn’t see that. So I never knew where we really were at. So it was all a part of, you know—it was kind of a tense time, with the Cold War. We were in secret locations and stuff like that.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was the crew like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Crew was good. I mean, they were—they knew I was a short-timer, so they—they kidded me around a little bit, and—and—‘cause they knew. They called me the “rider.” You know, and they said, “You’re just in your rack all day. That’s all you do. You don’t do real work.” but they were kinda—they were in a kidding type of way, right? And I was called—they called me the “assistant engineer.” So I—I—I oversee some training lessons and did stuff like that for them, but I stood the watch. You know, on the submarine ship, you stand a watch, you’re—you’re good, because, uh, somebody else doesn’t have to stand the watch for diving officer. I did that. So, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what was your time in Hawaii like?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, it was great. It was, uh, beautiful—the most beautiful places on Earth. It’s, uh—nice mountains, and the job was pretty stressful—getting the ships out—because, like I said, this is the height of the Cold War, and the ships came in. they had to get repaired in a certain window, Because there are only so many submarines out there. One comes in, and, uh, they only got coverage for a certain amount. So you gotta get that ship out on time, and if it’s not on time—not out on time, some people up high up don’t get too happy about that. So we gotta make sure that everything’s done timely and safely. So not only—and we just couldn’t—since it’s a nuclear submarine—First of all, nuclear submarines can be hazardous in themselves, and you got reactors on ‘em, and you gotta be extra special careful with respect to nuclear safety, and so sometimes, some things take a little longer than you might anticipate. So, uh, you always have that—you always have that bal—and I was in charge, so if the ship was late, it was on me. You know, I had to answer for it. So...</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, did, uh—did you ever have any incidents happen, during that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, yeah. Um, I was on one submarine. When—when I was in the shipyard, we occasionally had to go out ride submarines when—after repairing them, and then one of the hydraulic plants went on fire. So it was a submarine underwater, and it was on fire, but the crew is so trained. It was like, “Okay. Fine.” Just like training—t was no different than when we had the training. We went over there, <em>swoosh</em>, they put it out, and then we—we went on to eat for lunch. So it was like okay.</p>
<p>They were very seasoned, very seasoned crew. Um, the chiefs in the Navy—they really—I was an officer, but the chiefs in the Navy—they, you know—they run the show. They—they get the people to do the work, and so my admiration is for the chiefs, you know, [inaudible] folks. They’re—they’re the ones that make it happen, you know? We get the credit, most of the time. Sometimes, we get the blame, as the officers, but that’s kind of the way it is, but they’re the ones that—the enlisted guys—they’re the ones that[sic]—that[sic] make it work. So my father kind of sent me a lesson, when he said, “You’re gonna—you’re gonna be this hotshot officer, but you’re going to learn who does the work.” And I did.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, do you have any, uh, moments that stand out, during your time in, um, Hawaii or Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Um, well, one day, uh—well, I can say that, at the end, I—I—I made a suggestion to move the repair somewhere where it would be cheaper or a little more cost-effective, and—and still do it safely, and that—they—they actually listened to me and did it. So when I left—I don’t know how that went, but it wa—it did save some money. So that was—that was a good, good part of it, uh—good part of it, but a lot of that—I remember it was a lot of stress on that, but—but that was a good part of it, at—at—at—at the end there.</p>
<p>So—and I would still dock ships, you know—dry docked ships that come into the shipyard, and a dry dock is: you—you—you bring a ship in, and to work on the hull of a ship, you can’t—can’t be in the water, right? So you—you put the ship on blocks, you drain the dry dock down, and then you go into the ship, and you do what you gotta do, back—and back up. Then you put the water back in, and then you float the ship out, but Putting the ship on blocks is a—a, you know—a very engineering-involved thing. So, as the docking officer, I had to do the calculations to make sure the ship would sit on the block right and stay there, and do all those calculations and stuff.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> <br />‘Kay. Um, so, um, coming back now to, uh, your—your—how was your transition from being active duty to Reserve?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, not really—not really, um,—because I never had too many deployments, so I was always with my family. Like I said, I had a[sic] atypical career. I [inaudible] —I had it good, really. Um, so I didn’t have a lot—other than that one deployment, right? So when I went to Reserves, you know, I really was away from home more in the Reserves than when I was active duty, ‘cause I would have to drive to Orlando on—on the weekends, And then the two weeks a year, uh, I mean, again, I was with a lot of engineers. I had in my group, we had like PhDs, we had, you know, professional engineers. All highly, you know—highly educated people that[sic] worked for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], or worked for the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center, or whatever, and then they did the Reserves stuff, you know, on the side, ‘cause they were—they had this engineering background.</p>
<p>So I didn’t find too much of a, uh—uh, a transition. I went from a kind of academic environment, uh, to that. Now, I had a little more experience than a lot of the Reserves, ‘cause I actually was a[sic], uh, active duty—engineering duty officer, and a lot of them just came in the Reserves. So I had a little—a little more experience actually being there. I had the qualifications for the Dolphins and stuff like that. So that helped me a little bit, you know, with getting my advancements, you know, as I—as I, you know, got promoted on. So I also had some good leaders that[sic]—that[sic] showed me the ropes in the Reserves. That—that really helped me.<strong><br /></strong></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you remember any of those?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I do. I, uh—can I say their names?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, yep.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Or whatever?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I remember one, uh—one key person that[sic] was a—was a, eh—he was a[sic] Admiral: Rear Admiral Steve Israel. He was, uh, a great mentor to me. Um, when I first came in the Reserves, he kinda took me under his wing, kinda showed me the—the life in the Reserves, and, uh—and we worked together. I worked within several of his units, when he was a—When I met him, he was a Commander, and then, as he went through, he became Captain, and then ultimately, he became—became an Admiral, and I still, you know, am still in contact with him, you know, to this day, but He was very, very—he was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate, very good about dealing with people, and stuff like that, and another person gr—Captain Jim Tully. I worked for him, and I took his Reserve unit when he—when he left that unit to go to another unit, I took over for him in, uh—in—for him, in that—in that capacity. So he always mentored me too, and he’s—he’s actually the Mayor of Titusville. Yeah. So [<em>laughs</em>]—but He’s great—he is one of the—one of the best leaders I’ve ever met, and one of the most, uh—most—talk about people—talk about people with integrity, and people in political office. Well, he’s got political office, and I don’t know anybody with more integrity than that man does have. He’s just amazing. So we still keep in touch. Yeah. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Do you, um—do you have any stories or memories from your—from your time in the—in the Reserves that stand out?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, again, going back to the, you know—the enlisted people run the show. Uh, When I got—when I got command of my unit, I—I—I had a chief who was a Mensa [International]—high IQ [intelligence quotient] guy. Much smarter than I would ever be, and I asked his advice, you know, all the time, and that’s why my unit was so successful, and he helped me, give me advice on how to do things, and, you know, it went on from there. So I relied heavily on that. So I never—I never—I only made a couple of mistakes when I was a junior officer, thinking I knew it all, but that didn’t last out. Found out: the more senior I got, the less I thought I knew [<em>laughs</em>]. I knew more I had to rely on people that[sic] working[sic] for me. I mean, that’s the key to success. Um, and, uh—so—so that was very, very helpful.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, during—during the time in the Navy, um, did you, um—Um, what was—what was life like, um, in the [Ronald Wilson] Reagan years?<a title="">[2]</a></p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, life was good. Reagan was president—in fact, I saw Reagan come in the airport in Hon—Honolulu[, Hawaii], and, uh, you know, I am a big Reagan fan. Uh, and, uh, ‘cause I, eh—we grew up to kinda get the Cold War—and one of the beautiful things was when I finally got into the Reserves, there—there—the war we were fighting, we really won it, because even though it wasn’t a hot war, the Soviet Union collapsed. We stood up to them and they’re gone. Now, they’re rattling their little sword again, but—but, at—at least at that time, they were—we—we won that. So, I mean, I liked the war. I felt like we had a strength in the nation for—for—for that, due to Reagan and the buildup—the buildup he did. I just kinda make the Russians<a title="">[3]</a>—“Well, we can’t keep up with this.” So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz</strong> Uh, how did the—the—in that case, how did the, uh—the breaking down of the Wall in Berlin[, Germany] make you feel?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I thought it was great. I says[sic], “Wow. This is a great thing.” Because I grew up—when I grew up in the—in the [19]50s, the—the—I mean, I grew up during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we thought we were going to World War III. I mean, it was right—right around the corner. I mean, my father was shaking and white ashen[?], ‘cause I looked at him—well, and I was only—what? I don’t know. 11—10 years old, or something like that, and—and it’s just like—he’s shaking white. Something—something’s going on here, and—and that was the closest we’ve—we’ve ever come, right? And, um—and there were some things—even during the Cold War, there were some things that happened, which we don’t want to go into, but, you know—but, for the most part, there was peace, right? So when the—when the [Berlin] Wall came down, Reagan said, “Tear down this wall,” and it happened. So that was—that was a good thing, and then, when, uh—I would never had believed it when it happened—they said the Soviet Union collapsed. It was like, <em>Wow.</em></p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, in co—and in comparison, how are the [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton years in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, uh, Clinton—I mean, to a—see, Clinton was—he— ‘90s, uh, I got my senior—I think he signed my, uh—uh, my—my, uh—my promotion to Commander, and also he signed my discharge—my—my retirement paper, uh, in ’98, right? So—so I have some good—good, uh, Um, you know—He treated, you know, the military well too, you know? He was a smart, smart guy. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how were your, uh, final years in the Navy, eh, eh—in the Navy Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Good. Um, I mean, it was good. Uh, I was like—I had command of the unit, and then I was traveling so much back and forth, it was like, okay, you know? I was getting up for Captain, and I just decided that was time to, you know—time to—I didn’t make Captain the first pass. So I said, “Okay.” I had another chance, but I decided, you know, to get out. Um, so I decided just to—to go spend more time at my other job.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>What was your other job, at that point?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, I worked at a nuclear power plant, teaching chemistry, physics. The same thing I did in Nuclear Power School, right? So—right.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>So what was life like after the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Well, it just went from teaching for the Navy and the submarine stuff and still have the resources—so it was really—To me, it wasn’t an abrupt end. It was a, uh, gradual transition over the years, ‘cause I was, uh, in active duty for eight years, Reserves for 12. So it was kind of a long—and then I—well, during the 12 years, I had my civilian job. So I—I kinda worked the two together, you know? Worked the two together. So—and As, you know, eh—as I went through my job, and I got more senior in the Navy, more senior in the Navy, and then got up there. I mean, Commander is pretty high up, I guess. So, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, how did the Americans actually treat you, while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The who?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>The Americans. The civilians.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>The civilians? Oh, yeah. No problem. We didn’t have that Vietnam Syndrome, where, you know—where they—they spit on me or anything like that. Uh, I think today though—I mean, I think people are more appreciative of the military today, than they were even back when—when I was in there. I did used to do some recruiting for—for, uh, the Nuclear Power School, when I was at Nuclear Power School. I went out to the West Coast, and sometimes, I didn’t get a very friendly reception by the—the people on the campus at Washington University. Over there, they didn’t quite like my presence there. So—But I think today, I—I think the American people are more—are a lot more behind the troops. A lot more than compared to Vietnam [War] and even than when I was in. I think they realize what really they do for them.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you have any dealings with UCF at that time?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>I did actually. I, uh—I took a couple of classes here in 1982, when this campus was just a few buildings. So Industrial Chemistry, I took a few courses, because I was living in Orlando, and, you know, I just—I just did that. It didn’t end up in degree—I didn’t end up in a degree. I just have the classes. I think I have like 15 credits. Um, uh, Dr. [Gerald] Mattson—I think I had him, and I think he is still here, in the chemistry department. Um, so, uh—so I had that, and, you know, we were just kinda starting out. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we—we came to UCF. She had to take an education course and sit in these little seats, you know, she could barely fit into it. It was kinda—we went together. She took a [inaudible] some education courses, and I did the chemistry stuff. So—so yeah. UCF is a little part of my time here.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, you mentioned your wife. Um, did you—you met her while you were in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Actually, I met my wife in Orlando, okay? Um, uh, when I was an instructor here, I worked with another instructor, and his wife worked at a school, and she knew somebody. So they set this up on a blind date, and, uh, I mean, that was it. We’re married for 34 years.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Fantastic. Um, did she go with you to, uh, Hawaii?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. You bet she did. Now, obviously—and, In fact, we were on the submarine. Um, they did a dependents’ cruise. Now, what a dependents cruise is: you can actually come on a submarine, right? They let the dependents come on the submarine. So she actually came on the submarine with her father, and we did, uh, some op[eration]s for them. We dove the ship, and surfaced the ship, and did all these things, and they got to eat.</p>
<p>You know, so she comes in—she comes into the submarine. Now, on a submarine, you gotta understand: there’s a wardroom, just like this, and at the head of the table, there’s the Captain, and that’s the Captain’s chair. Nobody sits in the chair. So what does my wife do? She comes in and plops down right in the Captain’s chair, and I kinda say, “I don’t [inaudible] you need to sit there.” [<em>laughs</em>] So I rise her about that [inaudible], but she is probably one of the few ladies that[sic] were ever on a submarine—a nuclear submarine. Now, Of course, they are getting women into the program, but at that time, you know, she—she thought was kind of fun. So after being at sea for a little bit on the submarine, And then, I—she went off, and then shortly after that, I—I came back home. So that was—that kind of fun.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>That’s fantastic. Um, um, how did the events of 9/11<a title="">[4]</a> effect you?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, I was pissed, right? I was really mad that we couldn’t—that something like that could happen here. Uh, and I don’t know. You can point fingers and blame, but, you know, I, eh—it—it’s just one of those things that we got to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Uh, it’s one of those—it ripped every American apart, you know, and—and including me. Now, I was actually retired already. Um, so I, um, was already done. Uh, I mean, I could have been called to active duty, but they didn’t. I’m too old already, I guess. So—so they didn’t bother, you know, calling me up, but, uh—so yeah. That was kind of…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Did you still have any, uh—were any of your friends still in the—in active…</p>
<p><strong>Roger<br /></strong>Yeah, I think Captain Tully, that[sic] I talked to you about. I think he was still in at that time, and, uh, then he retired subsequently after that. So, um, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, what was one of the most important lessons that you learned from the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, leadership. How to manage people and how to respect people, and just, of course, you just gotta—because you got all the stripes on doesn’t mean you know everything, and, I mean, that was the lesson my father tried to let me know before I went in there, and I did some stupid things. “Oh, I am in charge, because I’m an officer.” You know, I only did that once or twice, and then I remembered that I had better relying on the chiefs more, because they’re really the ones that really kinda know what’s going on [<em>laughs</em>]. So I did that. So a little humility’s a good thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, do you have any, uh, messages that you would like to tell the young people of America today?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, yeah, the military’s a great way to go, especially if you got some technological talent. Eh, you—that—that Navy instructor program is a great way to get in, serve your country four years. You don’t have to stay in. You can teach at the Nuclear Power School, you can teach [inaudible] people who are really willing to learn, and they have to be, and they are really good students, and you—you get to teach stuff, and you come away with some great teaching skills that, at the end of it—that you can—that you can use anywhere else, you know? So, you know, To this day, I could teach anybody off the street how—how a steam engine works and so they would understand it. So, I mean, it’s am—an amazing thing.</p>
<p>So—so that’s—and don’t overlook that service. I mean, you know, my sons are likely not—not to go into it. I didn’t influence ‘em either way. One’s an engineer and one’s a—one’s a—a [inaudible] MBA [Master of Business Administration]. He’s got his MBA and he is a HR [human resources] manager over at Seaman’s[sp], so my sons are pretty successful, but I never influenced them to go one way or the other, but they’re proud of me that I did it.</p>
<p>Like I said, I did not have the career that some of these guys out there. They really put their lives on the line, and I never really had to do that. I was never shot at, okay? Um, but I served my country the best I could, you know? But the guys that really—the guys that went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s just amazing how they—they sacrificed—a lot of them—just so much: their lives, limbs, and everything else. It’s just—and—and—and did it, and they get—they get something—they get like their hand shot off, and they wanna go again, and go back and do it again. It’s just, you know—how do you—how do you instill that in our youth? That—that sense of duty. You know, it’s just a great, great thing. Not that they got hurt, but that they have this, uh—this dedication, and their patriotism for their country, and to do the right thing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Um, uh, uh, um, what, um—How did you actually end up at UCF, after, um, your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Well, I, um—a granddaughter comes into that. I was, uh—worked at the nuclear plant for 25 years. I—I retired from the Reserves in ’98, right? And in 2001, I went back to school again, got a Master’s degree—another Master’s degree—online, um, for—for, uh, education—online distance learning. So I did that for about—took me about four years to get it. I got that degree in 2006. Uh, and then finally, uh—Uh, what—what was your question again?</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Oh, how did you end up at UCF?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. Okay. So I—I graduated—after 25 years, I, you know—I retired from—I retired from FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] and I got bored, okay? So when I got very bored, um, I decided to come back to work. So my granddaughter—we had a new granddaughter that[sic] lives down in, uh, Oviedo[, Florida], here. So they—I saw this job at UCF as a Safety Training Coordinator. When I’m training, it looks good to me. So I applied for that job. I got it, so we moved down here. So my wife’s a—a full-time grandma, babysitter type, you know—help out with the kid, and I—I come here. I like my job, I’m teaching, and I got something to do. I got a sense of purpose, other than sitting at home doing nothing.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Uh, what year did you guys, uh—did you come here?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Uh, June 2013. So I haven’t been here that long. I’ve only been a UCF employee about a year and a half. Uh, you know, Two years it will be in June. So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, congratulations.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Um, is there anything else that, uh, we missed that you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>No, I mean, I think you about hit all on the head. I mean, it’s all—in the military, it’s all about—it’s about duty, honor, country, leadership. I mean, everybody should kind of get that experience. Well, not for everybody. It’s not for everybody, and—and I don’t know if I would have gone in, if it weren’t for the nuclear program. I don’t think I would have enrolled to just go, you know, to drive a ship. I couldn’t have anyway, because of my—my color—they wouldn’t—they wouldn’t have accepted me in anyway, but because I had some academic potentials, they used me for that, right? So the Navy kinda used me for what talents I had, and—and so, you know, anybody can do that. Yeah. So it’s a great thing. My thanks is for all the people that[sic] have gone on, and—and help, and, today, that[sic] continue to serve.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Well, uh, thank you for your time. Uh, and thank you, um, on behalf of UCF and myself, for answering our, um…</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>For answering our questions and having this, uh, wonderful interview.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Alright. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your—your interview.</p>
<p><strong>Hiltz<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Rogers<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Doctorate degree.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> January 20, 1981 - January 20, 1989.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Soviets.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[4]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
9/11
advanced training
American Chemical Society
Bennett Drive
Berlin Wall
Berlin, Germany
Bill Clinton
Bronx, New York City, New York
Caribbean Crisis
cold war
colleges
colorblindness
Commander
commissioned officers
Community Veterans History Project
Cuba
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dependents' cruises
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education
educators
Engineering Duty Officer
Engineering Duty Officer Dolphin Program
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Father of the Nuclear Navy
firefighting
fires
Florida Power & Light Company
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Gerald Mattson
Germany
Hyman G. Rickover
Hyman George Rickover
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instructors
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Jim Tully
Killian Hiltz
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mayors
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military spouses
military training
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military wives
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presidents
Restricted Line Officer
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William Jefferson Blythe III
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-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/017149c91b62c7a4b14385f0171aea84.pdf
5e0b59b50bd857278237fec9d293f9c4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Gordon Pierce and Trina Cothrin
Alternative Title
Oral History, Pierce and Cothrin
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Afghan War, 2001-
Global War on Terror, 2001-2009
Description
An oral history interview of Gordon Pierce (b. 1930) and Trina Cothrin, who both served in the U.S. Navy. Pierce was born in Buffalo, New York, on September 16, 1930. He enlisted in the Navy in 1948 and served until September of 1977, during the Cold War era and the Vietnam War. During his service, Pierce was station on the USS <em>Wasp</em>, the USS <em>Coral Sea</em>, the USS <em>Franklin D. Roosevelt</em>, and the USS <em>John F. Kennedy</em>. He achieved the rank of Master Chief Petty Officer and earned a Navy Commendation Medal and a Navy Achievement Medal.<br /><br />Pierce's daughter, Trina Cothrin (b. 1958), was born in Jacksonville, Florida, on October 13, 1958. Cothrin enlisted in the Navy in October of 1979 and served until October of 1982, when her son was born. She was then in the U.S. Naval Reserve until 1993, when she joined the U.S. Army. She left the military in 2009, after serving in Operation Enduring Freedom during the War in Afghanistan. Throughout her service, Cothrin was stationed at Naval Air Station Miramar (NAS Miramar) in California, Naval Air Station Jacksonville (NAS Jacksonville), U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) in Qatar, and MacDill Air Force Base (MacDill AFB) in Tampa. She ultimately achieved the rank of Chief Yeoman.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Roger Jordan Sims on March 12, 2014. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), the Vietnam War, Operation Enduring Freedom and the War in Afghanistan, life after leaving the Navy, how Central Florida has changed over time, the legacy of NTC Orlando, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:48 Background<br />0:02:23 Enlistment and boot camp<br />0:03:57 Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:07:45 Social life and relationships on base<br />0:12:47 Hardest part of NTC Orlando, proudest moment, and unforgettable memories<br />0:15:16 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:20:46 Vietnam War and the War in Afghanistan<br />0:23:10 Leaving the Navy and post-naval life<br />0:27:23 How Central Florida has changed over time<br />0:29:36 Legacy of NTC Orlando and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:32:44 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Gordon Pierce and Trina Pierce Cothrin Interview conducted by Roger Jordan Sims at Central Florida Research Park in Orlando, Florida, on March 12, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims, March 12, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014915. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014914. March 12, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>.
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 35-minute and 10-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims, March 12, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014915. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Digital transcript of original 35-minute and 10-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>. Interviewed by Roger Jordan Sims. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014914. March 12, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Station Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois
Jacksonville, Florida
Vietnam
Naval Air Station Sanford, Sanford, Florida
Naval Air Station Key West, Key West, Florida
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Miramar, Miramar, San Diego, California
Pensacola, Florida
Afghanistan
Qatar
Creator
Pierce, Gordon
Cothrin, Trina
Sims, Roger Jordan
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-12
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-12
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
301 MB
195 KB
Medium
35-minute and 10-second Digital (DAT) DVD audio/video recording
21-page digital transcript
199 KB
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Roger Jordan Sims, Gordon Pierce, and Trina Cothrin.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/292/rec/1" target="_blank">Pierce, Gordon</a>
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/291/rec/2" target="_blank">Cothrin, Trina</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay. Today is March 12<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Gordon Pierce and Ms. Trina [Pierce] Cothrin, uh, who served in the United States Navy. Uh, Mr. Pierce was an aviation metalsmith. Uh, Ms. Cothrin was an aviation maintenance administrator and yeoman. My name is [Roger] Jordan Sims. We are interviewing Mr., and, uh—Mr. Pierce and Ms. Cothrin as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at the [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Uh, Mr. Pierce, Ms. Cothrin, will you please start by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was born in Buffalo, New York, in 1930.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I was born in Jacksonville, Florida, in 1958.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>My parents worked for the State of New York. My father was, uh, in charge of the warehouse for all the supplies for a mental hospital, and my mother was a nurse.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And my father was, uh, a Master Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy—Navy, and my mother was a full-time, uh, mom.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, do you have any brothers and sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I do. I have, uh, three brothers and one sister. Uh, my oldest brother, uh, Tommy Foreman—he was actually stationed at, uh, McCoy Air Force Base, Uh, when it was an Air Force base, and then, uh, my younger brother Bruce [Pierce] joined the Navy. He and I joined the Navy together on the same day. Uh, He was in boot camp before I did, but we, uh—our paths crossed while we were in boot—boot camp together, and then later, Uh, when I was stationed in San Diego[, California], he came to San Diego for school. Uh, and then, Uh, when my husband and I were stationed in Pensacola, he also was subsequently stationed in Pensa—Pensacola. Then I have a sister named Tina [Pierce] and a younger brother, James [Pierce]. I don’t think I said my brother’s name, who enlisted with me, and that’s Bruce.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay. Um, when did you both decide to join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>My brother and I?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Both you…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>And Mr. Pierce</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I joined the Navy in 1948, after I graduated from high school.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, uh, my brother and I, uh, decided to join the Navy in October of 1979. Uh, uh, you know, he, uh—he had just finished high school, uh, the previous summer, and, uh, we both just decided to do it together. Um, I mean, I—I dunno what—is that enough?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Oh, yeah. Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. Good [<em>laughs</em>]. I don’t know how in depth you want me to go.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>No, I just…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong> Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Whatever—Whatever you’d like to tell us.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, where did you both attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I attended boot camp in [Naval Station] Great Lakes, Illinois.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I—here in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What were you trained for, uh—for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was trained as an aviation metalsmith in Memphis, Tennessee, and I spent, uh, um, about three or four months there, waiting to go to school. then I went to nine weeks of school to be an aviation structural mechanic or aviation metalsmith.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And I, uh, was an aviation maintenance administrator. I went to school in, uh, Meridian, Mississippi,<a title="">[1]</a> uh, and that was a six-week self-paced course that I finished in a month.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, when did you both begin your time at the Naval Training Center Orlando and how did that come about?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I can’t remember.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. I’ll talk to mine</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And then I’ll help him with his. Uh, I went—started boot camp in December of 1979 and I finished up in, I believe, it was March—February-March timeframe—of 1980, and subsequently went to San Diego, California, for a month, and then, uh, went to Meridian, Mississippi, and back to San Diego.</p>
<p>My father, uh, was stationed in, uh, NAS [Naval Air Station] Key West, and in 1970—’74, we—we moved to the Orlando area for a twilight tour. My fa—grandfather had passed away and, uh, we moved up here to, you know, be with my grandmother, right?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Pretty much.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you know about the region, uh, militarily or otherwise, before coming to Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>We learned quite a bit about it, because I had been stationed in Sanford, at the, uh, Naval Air Station [Sanford] there, for a number of years, and then I went down to Key West for shore duty, from that sea duty drill, and we came back up here, because we liked Central Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I—yeah, I lived here. So [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I knew the area.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, how long did you both spend at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I only did the, uh—spent the time there during boot camp, and my father was there for—from ’70…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[19]75 to ‘77.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Was it ’75? or ‘74?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I think it was ‘75.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, when you first arrived, what were your first impressions of the area?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce <br /></strong>Same old place [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] I was in high school, uh, so—I mean, it was okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What were your first days at the Naval Training Center like?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They were spent primarily training out to become a Company Commander at the Recruit Training Center [Orlando], and, uh, we went to school I think for six weeks, and we learned how to give lectures, and how to march sailors around, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Well, for me, it was, you know [<em>laughs</em>]—that first day, you know, you’re getting all your gear and, uh, you’re learning how to be a sailor, and, uh—so it was interesting [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what were your primary responsibilities while at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was the Correctional and Instructional Standards Division Officer, and we were, more or less, like a quality control unit. We would visit the various classrooms, and make sure the instructor was following the lesson plan, and completing all the things he had to do to get the point of the lesson across to the students.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, for me, I was a recruit. I was there to learn.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, what was your overall impressions of the recruits and their training during your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was impressed with the quality of all the young men and women that were brought into the Navy, and I thought the recruiters were doing a heck of a good job. There were very few people that[sic], uh, fell out, during my time as a Company Commander, and, uh, it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, I, uh—you know, once you get past that first initial shock, you know, and you—you get into your training group, I think everything went well. I, you know—I, uh, ultimately enjoyed the time I spent there. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What kind of social life existed among the recruits? How often were you allowed to go off base, and what places did you visit locally?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, I don’t think we were allowed to go off base until our training was completed. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, in the middle, wasn’t there a two-day weekend?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, no, I think the only thing we got to do was go to the visitors’ center and y’all were allowed to come visit us. That’s where the parents and families come—came, at the time that I was there. I do believe.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay, yeah. I remember that.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay, and, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>That was about right.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right, because we were—Bruce—Bruce went into basic training in November, and then I went in in December. So over the Thanksgiving holiday, he was there, and then, over the Christmas holidays, we were both there, and that’s where that one picture came from, where we’re all four there on those picnic—at those picnic benches.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How did your training experiences shape your relationships with the other recruits in your class?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a team-building experience. It—it, you know—it drew you together. Um, you know, taught you how to work together, uh, to accomplish goals.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The—the whole criteria for the Recruit Training Com—Command, As far as recruits and Company Commanders were concern—concerned, was to build them into a team, and it was 180 people on a team.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Something like that, and, uh, that was the—the goal was drill into them that they had to work as a team. They would clean the barracks, they would march, and they would do all things together, you know, as a team, and it—it was a rewarding experience to see them develop.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Who did you both interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Uh, there were people who were, um—hey would come around and they would take the—the recruit Company Commander would take the recruits out on the Grinder, and he—there were observers, and they would mark them—see how the training was going, as far as marching and things like that were concerned, and they would come back and open ranks, and do an inspection, and—and it was all very, very formal and, uh—what else do you want?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay. So, uh, my daily interaction was, uh, with our, uh—our, uh—what do you call them? Our, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Company Commander.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Our Company Commanders, and our, you know—our CPO [Chief Petty Officer] and then our—of course, our, uh,—the other recruits, and then you also interacted with, uh, other instructors, depending on where you were at. Whether you were in weapons training, or some other safety training, or—but for the most part you were with your Company Commanders, you were learning how to fold your clothes, put away your clothes, um, and…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Make your rack.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Make your bed a certain way. Uh, you were always having inspections. Uh, you know, how to wear your uniform, uh—let’s see. We went through firefighter training, and, you know, gas mask training—those kinds of things. They put you through your paces. You had your swim test, you know, uh, [inaudible], you had to float in the water for five minutes, uh, you know, you had to be able to, uh, swim from one end of the pool and back, you know? But, uh—so I don’t—I honestly don’t remember everything that we do. I do—I do remember the weapons training, the swim test, the marching, the folding of the clothes, the, you know—the bed inspections. You know, you’re getting up every day at 5 o’clock in the morning. Uh, you know, going to breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You march there, you march back. You know, they always had somebody up there, you know, letting you know the instructions. You had 20 minutes and 20 minutes only to, you know, get through the line, and eat your meal, and back to wherever it was we met to, you know, march back to wherever we were going next.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what do you remember about the instructors at the base? And what were your impressions of them?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I remember them all as being very professional, and they were t—their goal was to set an example for the recruits, [inaudible] in dress and...</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Mannerisms.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Mannerisms, and conformity to the rules and regulations. Look sharp, you know? Haircuts, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would agree with him. Uh, the two, uh, Company Commanders that I had were, you know—they were there to set the example, as well as enforce the rules, and, you know, guide us—guide us through the process, and, you know, test us more, test us less, you know, push us harder where we needed to be pushed.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And answer all the questions [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing you remember doing at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>For me, it was learning how to stand in front of a class of 180 people and teach them how to do something, you know? And, uh, I wasn’t really a formal instructor. I was a hands-on aircraft mechanic, you know, and I was taken from that environment and put in front of all these people, and, uh, it was a very different environment for me, so it was kind of a struggle at the beginning, but I worked my way into it, and I ended up liking it very much.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would say for me, uh—not necessarily the hardest thing, but, you know—you get there and you don’t know what to expect, and so then it’s learning to, uh, achieve the things you need to achieve in the time you have to do it, and So, you’re learning at a very rapid pace, uh, and, you know, uh—eh, so as—I don’t remember anything being [<em>sighs</em>] so terribly difficult. it was just a matter of learning it.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was the moment you felt most proud at the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Graduation.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I would agree.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>When your company pass and review, in front of the reviewing officers and the assembled guests and so on and so forth, it was kind of a proud moment.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It marked the end of the training cycle also [<em>laughs</em>]. You were done [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Can you tell me a story of a time at the Naval Training Center that you will never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Not really [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Not really [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Well, I remember the swim test part. Just floating there, and the sky’s blue, and you’re watching airplanes, and they, uh—and their, uh—whatever you call the smoke thing that goes by, and, you know, that’s what I was doing. Sitting there, you know—floating there, thinking about—I was like, <em>Okay</em>, as they ticked off the minutes, you know, to complete the test, but, uh—I mean, other than that, um, uh, I, you know—the comradery that, you know—that you had. I mean, once we graduated, we all dispersed, you know, a hundred different ways. Um, I think only one person that I went through boot camp with, uh, went to San Diego—I mean, he went to [Naval Air Station] North Island. So, um…</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How would you describe to USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, and what was its function?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It was used to familiarize the, uh, recruits with, uh, how confined the living spaces were aboard ship and various aspects of shipboard living, and, uh, it was very helpful. It was a—it was a very, very, very large training aid that was very useful in getting your point across.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin <br /></strong>Didn’t we do battle station drills and those kinds of things on it, as well? I…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I, uh—yeah. I, you know—I don’t—don’t really remember. I—I think we did some sort of drills on the ship. Uh, It wasn’t, eh—it was more than just familiarization with a ship. They took us on board. We did things on it. I just don’t remember what.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was the official purpose of the Grinder and what was its significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The Grinder was a very large piece of ground, where as many as nine different companies could get out there and march around, and not—not get involved with one another, if the Company Commander was paying attention [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>But it was a big area, and, uh, it was very hot in the summertime and kind of cool in the winter time, but, um, it worked very well.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Cold and wet. I—I mean, because we were out their marching in the cold and it was raining usually, but, uh, it was—it was all about marching out there. I think we did PT [physical training] out there.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It was also used as a—if somebody was goofing off within the company, you’d tell them to run around the—the Grinder a couple of times as a—it worked off their exuberance, you know?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /> </strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what other types of training went on at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>The—the [Naval] Nuclear Power Training Command was there. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>You mean other facilities? Or other things that we taught?</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Well, you have the basic boot camp recruit training.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>And then what other types of training would also go on, like the Nuclear [Power] School?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Like the NTC part of it? Do you remember what else was out there, other than nuclear training?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I don’t know. It wasn’t…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>But there was instructor training…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah[?].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And peripheral things like that, to where—to support the Recruit Training Command.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what were other areas on the base that were of particular importance to you or the recruits, and why were these places important?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, there was the Firefighting School, which was very important, because, uh, firefighting aboard ship is a[sic] immediate thing that has to be done and done well, and quickly, and thoroughly. I—I was always impressed with that, and there was the gunnery range.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[inaudible]. We went somewhere.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They had a…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>As I remember here, it was indoors, but in Great Lakes, where I went through boot camp, it was outside.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I believe it was indoors. I agree with you there.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I mean, I agree with him. The firefighting, you know—you go through the firefighting, uh, class, and one of the films they, of course, show you is the fire on the [USS] <em>Forrestal</em>, and that’s something that I think is, you know—they carry though. They still—I think they probably still use that as a training aid today. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Probably.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I remember the—what’s the oxygen—the liquid oxygen. I remember, Uh—I mean, that was pretty gross, and they showed you a film, uh, with regards to liquid oxygen and what can happen to you if, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>If it spills on you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It will freeze you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Very cold.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>So, uh—okay [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what was graduation like?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, for me, it was, you know, uh, the marching, and the passing in review, and you know, the, uh—the end of boot camp, and then the beginning of the next, uh, stage of my career in the Navy. Uh, so it, you know—it was being excited and being sad that you’re leaving, you know, the people that you got to know, and then excited to move on to the next thing, and Pride, you know, that you passed. That you got through it.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>For me, it was saying “Hello” to a lot of different people, where every recruit wanted to introduce you to their parents, to their loved ones, or whatever, and it was, uh, an emotional day.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you do for the Navy upon leaving Naval Training Center Orlando? Did you receive specialized training after your time at Naval Training Center Orlando? And if so, where did that take place?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Um, I did not go to A School upon graduation of boot camp. I went directly to a squadron. I went to VC-7 [<em>Tallyhoers</em>] at, uh, NAS Miramar[, San Diego], California. It was an [Douglas] A-4 [Skyhawk] training squadron. Uh, and when that squadron decommissioned, I think the, uh—not even—less than a year—maybe ten months later, I then went to A School in Meridian, Mississippi, and then, uh, went back to, uh, VF-124 [Fighter Squadron 124] an [Grumman] F-14 [Tomcat] squadron at, uh, NAS Miramar, and...</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Were either of you ever in active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>What?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>An active warzone. Have you ever been in an active warzone?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I was over in Vietnam on the line for about three years.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Um, can you tell me about arriving in the warzone, and what impact that experience had on you?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, you work 12 hours on duty and 12 hours off duty, and that just went on continuously. There were no weekends. There were nothing—you spent 30 days on the line, and then you’d go for a week in Olongapo[, Zambales] in the Philippines for liberty, and, um, it was pretty arduous and, uh emotional at times, because you’d lose airplanes and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, did you receive any medals or citations during that time?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I received, um—what’s the orange and green one?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It’s a Navy Commendation Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, and now, the green and white one is…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Navy Achievement.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Navy Achievement Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, I received both of those and a whole bunch of service awards from various places of—of the world: Korea, Vietnam, Mediterranean Occupation Medal.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>North Atlantic? [inaudible]. Not—I don’t know if it was North Atlantic, but you were up there too.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>And I crossed the Arctic Circle a number of times, but I didn’t—they didn’t give a ribbon for that. Crossed the Equator two or three times—maybe four, to get back [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>For me, I was mobilized, uh, in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Uh, spent two years at CENTCOM [United States Central Command]. Um, after that, eight months, uh, I spent in Qatar. Uh, it was a, uh, very interesting and rewarding experience, the two years that I spent, uh, mobilized. Uh, it was interesting to go to Qatar. Uh, I—that’s the second country I had ever been to, outside the United States. The first was Mexico [<em>laughs</em>]—Tijuana[, Baja California, Mexico]. So, uh, it—it was interesting seeing the culture, uh, seeing the area, and then, uh, you know, like my dad said, it was, uh, generally a 15-16-hour workday, but, uh, it was a good experience.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /> </strong>Uh, do you both recall the day your service ended? and what was that like?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh, I —yes. So I got out of the Navy, uh, October 1, 1982—‘82 or ’81 [<em>laughs</em>]. Okay. ’82, because my son was born in November of ‘82. So, uh, it was a sad experience for me. I wasn’t ready to get out of the Navy. So, uh, once my husband and I transferred to Pensacola, it took six months, and then I found a billet in a [U.S. Naval] Reserve unit, and then I spent the rest of my career, uh, in Reserve units. Starting out in aviation units, and into intel[ligence] units. Um, you know, and through the course of my, uh, 29 years in the—in the Reserve, you know—active and Reserve program, uh, you know, did my two years mobilization at CENTCOM, and I, uh, had worked at, uh, Joint Task Force Forge[?] [inaudible]. I did [inaudible], uh—active duty down there with them, when we were stationed down there. So, I mean, I had a very full and interesting career. So, for you, Dad, you retired in, uh, 1977.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right. I think it was September 1<sup>st</sup>, and, uh—just another day, to me. No ceremony. I didn’t have a ceremony or anything like that.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Uh, what did you do after you left the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I got a job in, uh, Sanford with a machine shop company, and they made, Uh, what’s called a “fax machine” now, but this was the very beginning, and it was a thing that went around in circles, and it printed letters, and so on and so forth. There was no vocal, but it was all—you could transmit a—a letter on this circular thing, and it went through the air somehow, and got there and…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Was that QWIP [Technologies]?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah, QWIP.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>QWIP, and it was a company that…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Went through the telephone. You had to call up, get ahold of the machine, and then you put the thing in there, and then you turn the machine on, and it would transmit the piece of paper. Very archaic, really.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Compared to today.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And, for me, um, I worked two jobs. So I had my Reserve career and then I had—I worked for the Army since 1993. Uh, and that’s when I started working full-time again.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Have either of you kept in touch with anyone from the Naval Training Center?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I haven’t.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>No, I—me neither. No.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The discipline, the organization, and the orientation of doing your—having to plan out everything and having to work your way through it. It was an organizational—a very strict class in organizational responsibilities, and —get ‘er done.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Right. Uh, you know, I would have to say—I would have to go to, you know, uh, something similar. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>And say, I mean, the caliber of people that were there that you worked with, uh, the things that you did. Uh, I mean, it was just a—it was a great experience. Um, I mean, I, you know, would recommend it to other people. to young folks that—if they don’t really, you know, have it figured out—what it is that they want to do, uh—spend four years in the Navy and—or any service—and, uh, see the world a little bit, and, uh, meet people from all walks of life. It’s a big melting pot. You learn a lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>You grow up in a hurry.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>How has, uh, Central Florida changed since the time you spent here?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>A lot [<em>laughs</em>]. A lot.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /> </strong>Probably expanded three- or four-fold, population-wise. We—we retired in ‘77.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>You retired in ‘77. Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>So we were transferred here in ’75, I think, from Key West, Florida, and, uh, from the day I retired ‘til today, the place has—has really grown, and the population has…</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Probably [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Doubled—tripled, probably</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Quadrupled, probably.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>I think they can remember when, you know—I can remember my mom and dad talking about when [Florida State Road] 436 was a dirt road.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Okay[?].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>It only went part way down to the airport and then it was a dirt road.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>My grandparents—I don’t know when my grandparents moved here. Was it in the ‘50s or the ‘60s that they retired down here?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I think in the late ‘50s.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>The late 50s. They came down, um, from New York. So as kids, you know, we were coming—wherever we lived—because I grew up here in Florida, Uh, there was only one period of time when he was stationed outside of Florida, from the time I was born. So we’ve lived—I was born in Jacksonville. We’ve lived in Pensacola, Key West, and Central Florida. So we’ve done the gambit. So Florida—I’m a Floridian [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The squadron I was in was stationed in Sanford, but it deployed on a carrier that was home-ported in San Diego. So it would take three days to airlift the squadron out, and then three days to bring us back. When you got home finally, it was—it was, uh—I can’t think of the word I want to say. You had to move a lot of gear around to get your job done when, uh—when you were aboard ship.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>It was a logistics, uh, exercise.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What do you think is the lasting legacy of the Naval Training Center and the Navy in general in the Central Florida region?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I really don’t know. I’m sure it has a[sic] historical impact, but other than that, I really don’t know.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>As far as today, the impact of the base, because it—it closed in the ‘80s? ‘90s? I don’t remember when it closed. Uh, But I mean—I think it had, uh, an impact while it was here. Uh, and it—and it had an impact for some time after it closed. Um, certainly, you know, you go there and look at Baldwin Park, you know, there’s no real sign that the Naval Training Center or Recruit Training Command, uh, ever existed. I mean, there’s little, little things, and I think that’s the purpose of the whole, uh, Lone Sailor, uh, Memorial [Project]—is—is to try to bring back something here in the Orlando area to remind folks that, hey, at one point in time, there was this, uh, Naval Training Center here and Recruit Training Command, and bring back some of that heritage.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>One of the things that I remember is: on Friday, up over the weekends, maybe half a dozen companies would get liberty and the seet[sic]—and the streets were just lined with sailors, and it would—it was just amazing, and then all of a sudden, they were gone, you know? And that—that was a visual impact I’m sure for a lot of these civilians around here.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they visit the site of the base and the Lone Sailor Memorial?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>They would probably like to take their parents or guests around and point out various things that were helpful in their training, and, uh, show the Grinder and so on and so forth, where we marched, and the various [inaudible] buildings where they went to school.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Well[?], they’re not there anymore though [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Well, that’s true.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yeah, I mean, I guess part of the Grinder is still there. They use it as a—there—there’s[sic], uh, park-like areas in part of it. , uh, I mean, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> is gone. It would have been nice if something like that had stayed, but it didn’t. Uh, and it—and I’m sure it had to do with upkeep, as well. Um, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>The <em>Blue Jacket</em> was a model ship, right?</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Okay. It was just—it wasn’t very big. It was about half as big as a destroyer, maybe a little bit smaller, but it, uh—it served as a good training aid. It was a good visual thing for the recruits to see their first ship or something like that [<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Is there anything you would like to share about your naval experience?</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>I would recommend it for everybody. It was a wonderful experience, as far as I’m concerned. You can’t imagine how precise everything is—the way they start flying in the morning and end up in the evening, after dark generally. Sometimes they flying around the clock, but an aircraft carrier is one of the busiest places in the world, but every hour—hour and a half—you’re launching or recovering airplanes. That goes on all day long. Sometimes 24 hours a day, depending on what kind of a mission or training exercise you’re in. There’s always—around the carrier, there’s usually a cruiser and at least [<em>coughs</em>] five or six destroyers, and the destroyers act as plane guards, in case one of the planes goes into the water. They rescue the pilot, if they get there before the helicopter and so on and so forth, but, uh, before the helicopter, they were primarily the—the guy that pulled the man out of the water that was in there, but, uh, I wouldn’t trade it.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>What was the question again? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims <br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>If there was just anything else you’d like to share about your experience in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>coughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Again, like my father said, I would recommend it. Uh, certainly for, you know—it’s just a broadening experience for anybody. Uh, and there’s no better way to have a job, travel, and kind of—you’re taken care of. Uh, So I had an incredible career for, uh, nearly 30 years. I retired in, uh, 2009. I went into the Navy in 1979. So, um, I loved it, um, like[?] my dad.</p>
<p><strong>Sims<br /></strong>Well, thank you for talking with me today and for sharing, uh, your experiences with me.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Cothrin<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Pierce<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Naval Air Station Meridian.</p>
</div>
</div>
A School
A-4
Afghanistan
aircraft carriers
airplanes
Arctic Ocean
aviation maintenance administrators
aviation metalsmiths
aviation structural mechanics
Baldwin Park
basic training
boot camps
Bruce Pierce
Buffalo, New York
CENTCOM
Chief Yeoman
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
Company Commander
Correctional and Instructional Standards Division Officer
CVHP
Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
education
Enduring Freedom
enlistment
F-14
facsimile
fax
Fighter Squadron 124
firefighting
Firefighting School
fires
Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 58
Florida State Road 436
Global War on Terror
Gordon Pierce
graduations
Great Lakes, Illinois
Grinder
Grumman F-14 Tomcat
GWOT
instructors
Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
Jacksonville
James Pierce
Key West
liquid oxygen
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
MacDill AFB
MacDill Air Force Base
Master Chief Petty Officer
memorials
Memphis, Tennessee
Meridian, Mississippi
military education
military training
Miramar, San Diego, California
NAS Jacksonville
NAS Key West
NAS Meridian
NAS Miramar
NAS Sanford
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Key West
Naval Air Station Meridian
Naval Air Station Miramar
Naval Air Station Sanford
Naval Nuclear Power Training Command
Naval Station Great Lakes
Naval Training Center Orlando
NAVSTA Great Lakes
Navy Achievement Medal
Navy Commendation Medal
NS Great Lakes
NTC Orlando
Nuclear Power School
OEF
Olongapo, Philippines
Operation Enduring Freedom
orlando
Pensacola
Philippines
planes
Qatar
QWIP Technologies
recruit training
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Recruit Training Command
recruits
Republic of the Philippines
Roger Jordan Sims
RTC Orlando
sailors
Sanford
Sims, Roger Jordan
Skyhawk
SR-436
State of Qatar
swimming
Tampa
terrorism
terrorists
Tomcat
Tommy Foreman
Trina Cothrin
Trina Pierce
U.S. Army
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
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USCENTCOM
USS Blue Jacket
USS Coral Sea
USS Forrestal
USS Franklin D. Roosevelt
USS John F. Kennedy
USS Wasp
VA-72
VC-7 Tallyhoers
veterans
VF-11 Thunderbolt
VF-124
VF-171
Vietnam War
VR-58
War in Afghanistan
War on Terror
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c65c2937c8b431b9f072c42016c0f815.pdf
e901832282467dfc3568e3bddb15ba8d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Robert Matthews
Alternative Title
Oral History, Rob Matthews
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Robert Matthews (b. 1957), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War era. Matthews was born in Lake Wales, Florida, on May 23, 1957. He enlisted in the Navy in February of 1977 and was discharged in July of 1984. During his service, Matthews was stationed at Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando), Naval Air Station Memphis (NAS Memphis), and Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment (NAMTRADET) at Naval Air Station Jacksonville (NAS Jacksonville). He also served in Attack Squadron 174 (VA-174) and VA-87. Matthews was a Master Training Specialist and received an Expeditionary Medal.<br /><br />This interview was conducted by Mark Miller on March 28, 2014. Interview topics include Matthews' background, enlistment, training at RTC Orlando, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, the Base Realignment and Closure Commission (BRAC), Matthews' naval career, NAWCTSD, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:01:39 Enlistment<br />0:03:05 Attending boot camp at Recruit Training Center Orlando<br />0:05:53 First impressions of and days at Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:08:13 Recruits, instructors, and military leave<br />0:14:37 Primary responsibilities at RTC Orlando<br />0:16:24 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em><br />0:18:32 Memories and proudest moment<br />0:20:40 The Grinder, marching, and physical fitness<br />0:24:30 Selecting a boot camp<br />0:26:34 Military leave and the Orlando area<br />0:28:02 Base Realignment and Closure Commission<br />0:32:56 Career in the Navy and the Naval Reserves<br />0:37:01 Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division<br />0:43:55 Lone Sailor Memorial Project
Abstract
Oral history interview of Robert Matthews Interview conducted by Mark Miller at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division in Orlando, Florida, on March 28, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
21-page digital transcript of original 47-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Lake Wales, Florida
Recruit Training Center, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Memphis, Millington, Tennessee
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Cecil Field, Duvall County, Florida
Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Jacksonville, Florida
Creator
Matthews, Robert
Miller, Mark
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-28
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-28
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
41.3 MB
215 KB
Medium
47-minute and 23-second Hi8/MP4 audio/video recording
21-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mark Miller and Robert Matthews.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay, okay. This is an oral history of Rob[ert] Matthews, an RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando] graduate and naval veteran. The interview is conducted by Mark Miller, graduate student from UCF [University of Central Florida], working in conjunction with the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial [Project] committee. Uh, it is March 28<sup>th</sup>, 2014, and we are in Mr. Matthew’s offices at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], um, in[sic] the [12201] Science Drive—Orlando. Okay. Um, some of our first questions are background questions. Um. So whe—when and where were you born?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I was born in a little town not far from here—a little town called Lake Wales. I was born in[sic], uh, May 23<sup>rd</sup>, 1957.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. What do[sic] your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, my father was in construction, um, and my mother was in the medical field, working as an office manager.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I have four sister—four sisters. They were, um, all born in Lake Wales, as well, and two of them still live in Florida, and two live elsewhere.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>clears throat</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>The elementary school is there in Lake Wales. A little school called Spook Hill Elementary [School]. Uh, and junior high and high was Lake Wales Junior High [School] and Lake Wales High School. So it was a small town about 8,500 people.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, so you were home-grown [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Homegrown.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, I went to college for a little bit. Um, worked locally in the town there, right at the high school, and, um, after about a year of that, I decided I wanted to go in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. So you joined a year after high school, and, uh, why did you join the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, [<em>clears throat</em>] I guess I came from a Navy family. My, uh—in a sense—my father was a in the Navy during World War II for a short period of time. My uncle was—also served in World War II in the Navy. I had a cousin that went to the naval academy. I had an uncle that flew for the Navy, as well. Uh, and I had a brother-in-law that went to the Navy, prior to me going in the Navy. He actually went through RTC Orlando, as well.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh, wow. So one of our questions was why the Navy over other branches, and I think[?]…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I think I explained that [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Yes, I think I can easily see that. Yes. Navy family. Alright. Um, so how did your family feel about you joining?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, mixed emotions, I guess. A little bit. Uh, I think they were glad to see me join such a great organization. Uh, I think, uh, my mother would have liked me to have waited and get a commission instead of being enlisted, but I was a little impatient, so I decided to go for it and do it anyway.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>RTC Orlando.</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>Okay, and what were you trained to do in your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, I was a, uh—excuse me—an aviation Electronics Technician, uh, while I was in the Navy, which allowed me to work on the electronics on both the [Ling-Temco-Vought] A-7 [Corsair II] and [Lockheed] P-3 [Orion] aircraft.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So, uh, wha—what was your experience like at RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>It was different. Um, probably the best council I got from, uh, my brother-in-law prior to going over there was: just remember to treat, uh—to treat it as somewhat of a game, and that, uh—don’t take the things that you’re being told too serious, um, and what he meant by that was—not that the training wasn’t important—it was critical for my own safety, as well as, uh, helping the country, but some of the things that you have to go through in boot camp—those stereotypical things that we have to do to make sure that we’re instilling discipline in our—in our young troops. He told me not to take that too serious, and that was probably the best council I got, uh, as I went through boot camp—was just remember that they’re sending me through certain experiences so I learn from it and that’s not really the way things are.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what were some of those experiences?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, um, back in those days, uh, it was important to, uh, get young people’s attention, and the way you did that was you physically exhaust them every opportunity you have, and you try to mentally change the way they see the world. So we would—we would do endless bouts of inspections, and calisthenics, and things of that nature, and it really was to try to, uh, instill discipline that maybe not all of us had when we went there. So we did some pretty silly things over—as I look back now, um, seemed awfully important to me at that point, but now, it’s— I’m not sure that having a spit shine on my shoes and my gig line lined up perfectly was, uh, the most necessary thing, but I understand the purpose of it. The purpose of it was: I learned to take, uh, great care and attention to detail, uh, to understand discipline and the meaning of it. So, uh, it seems silly, but I understand why they did it.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So what was your first impression of the base?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, it was a little confusing, uh, you know, I lived in Lake Wales, uh, which was—it’s only 60 miles from Orlando. So when I joined the Navy, uh, my first, uh, impression of being part of, uh, the Navy or [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense] or U.S. Government was to get from Lake Wales to Orlando, I needed to go via Coral Gables and Miami. So I left Lake Wales, instead of heading, uh, northeast to Orlando, I went west to Tampa to catch an airplane to fly south to Coral Gables, to being docked there, stuck on a bus, driven back north, and I think we got on base probably about 11-11:30 at night and it was dark. Um, probably a little bit frightened, um, because, just like you see in the movies, as soon as we got off the bus people were yelling at us [<em>laughs</em>]. So, uh, by the time I hit the base, I was pretty tired and I was pretty scared, so [<em>laughs</em>] it was a good experience to start with [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>]So what were your first days of service like?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, it was, uh, a lot of confusion. A lot of being told exactly where to go, and the best thing to do was just listen. Uh, we were put in lines, um, wherever we went. We were—got our haircuts, our uniforms, a place to stay, were told what to do what not to do, when to do it. Uh, we were led around for the first few days. It was a good thing, because it was—it was a real culture shock for—for most of us. Um, but I—I would say that probably that—that, um—that rigor that they sent us through the first few days was probably the best way to get over that culture shock. So I didn’t have to do a lot of thinking at first. Just reacting to what they did to us, and they really did start forming us as a team. I was in a group of folks. There—there were 80 of us in our training unit, as we called them back then. Didn’t know, uh—79 brand new people I didn’t know before. Now I get to spend the next eight weeks with them and they became very close in many ways.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>Now—yes. You’ve mentioned to us quite a few times—I was wondering what some of the fellow recruits were like? I mean, were they from all over and…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>They were. They were from all over the country. Um, and it—it was kind of interesting, ‘cause I was thinking about this: these were people that, um, like myself—that maybe grew up in a small town. Um, that came from a fairly stable, uh, family life, to, uh, folks that didn’t have that benefit. They may have come from middle of, uh, a city—broken family. Uh, and they brought the issues with that, um, and they tossed us all together, um, from all—from all over the country. People from Florida, Texas, New York. Uh, you could almost—although there probably wasn’t somebody from every single state in my group of 80—but a lot of the states were represented. Um, and, uh, I laughingly say there was[sic], you know, 80 people with probably 90 personalities in—in that group of folks.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] some of the people handled it very well, and some of the people didn’t, and we started with 80. We didn’t end with 80. Although back in those days, Navy boot camp was not seen as one to the more rigorous—we certainly weren’t Marines. Uh, but There were people that just could not handle the, uh—the stress that we were put through, and you wouldn’t have guessed it, uh, from the first day. I think you’d have a very difficult time—maybe experienced person wouldn’t[?]—but you’d have a hard time looking around your group of folks that you’re—you first get your haircut with and first get your uniforms with, thinking, <em>This person’s going to make it. That person’s not.</em> Because we were consistently surprised by the people that did drop out. We thought they were the strong folks, but it turned out maybe they weren’t. So it was an interesting experiment to go through and kind of watch it.</p>
<p>Once more, I’ll go back to what my brother-in–law said. I kept in my mind, when <em>this guy’s yelling at me, it’s not because he doesn’t like me. It’s just part of what’s going on.</em> So I never like[?] let that get to me. So I was able to observe other people a little bit better, because I wasn’t too worried about my own self, I guess. So it was—it was quite an experience.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Do you keep in touch with some of these people?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, no.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, I can remember—of those 80 people, I can remember one guy’s name. Um, and I saw him a couple times—two or three years after boot camp, and that’s it. I remember another gentleman’s first name and that’s it. Uh, and that’s all I can remember, but the one person I can remember very clearly was our Recruit Training Commander. Senior Chief Soaper, and that was in the days that the Navy allowed beards, and Senior Chief Soaper, um, was a tall thin man, dark hair, with a goatee and devil’s eyes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>And I remember him clearly to this day.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>30 or 40 years later, or so.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>He’d probably be very proud that you said that about him.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>He did a lot of good things for a lot of us. We didn’t think so at the time, but [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah, yeah. Um, you said that there were 80 people in—in your training group, but that was really quite a large facility. Uh, you were involved probably with other groups also, right?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>To—to some extent. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] Being it was 80, it was well orchestrated, so that we saw a lot of the other units as were marching by each other. We see them in the chow hall, but you stay together as a unit. Um, when we went to the chow hall, we sat together, we ate together, and we left together. We didn’t mix, um, and not that we weren’t interested—because this was—this the first years of having, uh, females in the Navy, and—but at that time it was still segregated—that the boot camps did not mix these training units with male and female. so we were there and I—I—hopefully, someone knows the numbers of the—of training units and the training groups that they had—power cells—training units, at that time, but if I had to guess, there was 20 or 30 units going on at a time, easy, of which maybe two were female. So, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—and even that was separated. So the chow hall had two sides, and I was in the side that was—it was all males. So we never even saw any females the whole time we were there, just about.</p>
<p>Once in a while we’d pass them, but the groups didn’t mix at all so I—I couldn’t even—I probably wouldn’t even recognize one of those people that were in a different unit, because there so separated. You go to classes together, in your training unit, um, and occasionally there may be a training event where they’d mix two units, uh, but not very often. So you really didn’t—really didn’t mix too much at all.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, you must have done some mixing off-base though?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] There was no-off base. Um, when you start boot camp [<em>clears throat</em>], um, you start day one, you’re in boot camp ‘til you graduate, with two exceptions: the last week, they allowed us to—they’d load us up in buses and they took us to SeaWorld [Orlando] for the day. We’re there in our whites. Uh, we’ve been given the, uh, strong instructions of how we will operate while we’re at SeaWorld, because we represent the Navy for the first time in our uniform. So we, um—we—it was very stunted, if you will, what we could do at SeaWorld.</p>
<p>So that was one day, and then the only other time that, uh, we had any outside access to the base was the day we graduated. We didn’t actually transfer ‘til the following day. That night we had a couple hours of military leave or liberty that we were allowed to go out of town[?], once we were in a very controlled environment. So other than that, no. when I transferred out of Orlando, I was gone. Uh, so my time at boot camp—the eight weeks I was there—one day in SeaWorld and one night on liberty, and I actually spent that with my family, because they came up, uh, and I spent a couple hours with them. So that was it.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>You didn’t get off base.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Hm. So what were your primary responsibilities, uh, when you were RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, surviving was my primary, uh, responsibility. I— was not in a leadership position at, um—at boot camp at all. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] what I was supposed to do was: I was supposed to learn how to become a sailor. Uh, I was a recruit up until they told me I was a sailor, which means I had to learn all the, um—I had to learn Navy history. I had to learn Navy protocol, uh, brinks, uh, customs, the culture, etc. I had to learn firefighting, how to fix a—I had to learn flooding. Any type of ship damage they try to expose us to. Uh, gas masks, you know—how to use a gas mask, what happens if your gas mask is not working. Uh, so they just try to give us the basics of, um, shipboard life, and especially, in case of emergency. So there was signaling, there was[sic] all the basics of becoming a sailor that they taught us, How to operate a weapon, if necessary. Uh, we did a little bit of shooting. So, uh—uh, how to wear a uniform, how to maintain a uniform, and the different uniforms that go with it, um, and they’ve got a lot of basic human, uh, nature things that you—that you think you—that most people would know, but recognize once more, these people are coming from all over the United States, from many different home lifes[sic], etc. so they’re teaching you hygiene—everything. So it’s—they take a raw person off the street and they turn him into a sailor that can function on his own as necessary when he leaves. Uh, and those—that’s what my primary responsibility was—to learn these things that they’re trying to teach us.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, obviously, we’re land-locked in Orlando and—and you’re in the Navy facility, how did you learn onboard training and things?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, I learned them on the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>What was that?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>That was the, uh—that was the—my first ship in the Navy, and it, uh—It was located right there, where Baldwin Park is now. Uh, it was a plywood mockup of a ship, um, and it had hatches and doorways and it looked like—it looked like a ship. You marched up to it. There wasn’t a pier associated with it. There was a little bit of a gangway. Went in there and we did watch standing. Um, it—it truly was the first time that I was on board, uh, or used a Navy simulator. It was called, um—it was the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>. <em>Blue Jacket</em> was our training manual. All sailors—that’s the—their Bible, if you will. Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] and we spent, uh, many hours, uh, retrieving lines, casting lines, getting underway, uh, practicing damage control drills, things of that nature aboard the ship, and this was a culmination of many, many hours and days of classroom training, where they broke down the different aspects of the things we need to do aboard the ship into smaller chunks, if you will, so we could learn those objectives for that, and they sent us to firefighting trainers. Uh, they sent us to gas mask, uh—the gas mask room, where we went to a room with our gas masks on, and they let off the tear gas, and then they had us remove the mask, so we had some prospective of what that’s—what that’s like. Uh, did some flooding training—things of that nature—repairs. Just so that when we finally did leave boot camp, we went to further training and eventually did wind up on a ship, we would be an asset to the ship and not a—not a hindrance. By no means, a fully functioning trained sailor, but, uh, far, far, uh, greater value to the Navy after the eight weeks that we showed up and needed haircuts and uniforms.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>The hardest thing was, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—well, physically, the hardest thing was: we’re in Florida. Um, and fortunately I started in February, so by the time I was done, we hadn’t got to the summer. So we had a couple hot days on the Grinder. Lots of marching, where we weren’t quite up to snuff, so we spent an awful lot of time learning how to march in the—on the asphalt in the sun. Um, and we spent quite a bit of time at either attention or parade riffs in the sun, trying not to pass out from your knees being locked. Um, that was—that was a hard part of it.</p>
<p>Um, I think sometimes that, uh, even though, as I said earlier, I tried to keep in my mind, <em>This is just a game</em>, there was some lonely times, you know? Where you’re dead tired, and you see your chief and other folks have been yelling at you all day long, and you still got to shine your shoes one more time, and you’re just dead tired, and you’re thinking, <em>Boy, is this really the—do I want to spend my life doing this? </em>and I would—I would say, as hard as the physical part of it was, keeping that positive mental attitude that this too shall pass was kind of difficult sometimes at night. So it was probably that.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And on the flip side, at what moment did you feel most proud?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>That would be my graduation, when, um—when they played the—the patriotic music. We get to march, looking sharp as we do. Uh, we know our families’ in the stands, and we know that we’ve accomplished something. We’ve accomplished something that many people before us have accomplished and many people since, but internally, it’s—it’s something that we’ve been able to do, you know? We’ve been able to, as sailors, recognize that we do have the discipline to do the things that need to be done, and that was probably my proudest moment was—was the graduation, and seeing my folks in the stands [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So was[sic] there other purposes for the Grinder than graduation or marching?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>If there was, I never uncovered them [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So[?] that—that’s where we did our, um—that’s where we did our marching, and, um, [<em>clears throat</em>], you know, [<em>clears throat</em>] sailors don’t march. That’s what the other services tell us, but we sure—we sure faked it a lot</p>
<p>[<em>phone rings</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, we spent an awful lot of time trying to stay lined up with each other. Try to—uh, and really marching is just trying to operate as a team—trying to teach folks to operate as a team. You can take the attention to detail, and you can look as good as you are and you can be perfect, but if your teammate’s not, then you gotta start all over. So marching wasn’t to learn how to march. Um, I think after I left boot camp I marched, oh, for another six months when I went to school, because they’d march us back and forth to school, but once I left school, I never marched again. Um…</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible] you want to take his[?] call?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So, um, I—I, um, [<em>clears throat</em>]—the marching was, once more, one of the teaching points. Um, you have the discipline to do it. It seems silly, but it has a greater purpose. Do you have the attention to detail to do it correctly? Uh, and do you have the patience? That’s the key: do you have the patience to do this a long time? So I’m going to say that’s probably what I remember most about the—about the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Yeah, a lot of vet[eran]s mention the Grinder. That’s for sure. Along with the <em>Blue Jacket</em> also.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>We did a lot of running on the Grinder. We—they—we spent a lot of time on physical fitness, and—and part of that is, um—part of the physical fitness aspects are, um—we need to be in shape obviously, but the same time, when they teach us things, they have to be able to stress us, so that when we—in a real situation, and there’s stress involved, we make the right decision.</p>
<p>Part of the physical fitness is wearing you down to a point where you are stressed. So they would—they would send us through running exercises and physical fitness, and then they’d get us into a classroom environment, and we’d have to start making decisions based on that, and—and that was critical to our training—to be able to say, you <em>know what? I’m dog tired</em>, like I said a few minutes ago, <em>I’m tired, but I still got to shine my shoes. I still have to do this action, I still have to clean up my—my area. My rack still needs to be made perfectly, even though I’m tired and I don’t want to do it</em>, and the only way you can get people to do that is to repeat it, repeat it, over and over again, the same thing over and over again, and even when they do it completely right, have them do it over.</p>
<p>So it was part of, you know—all the services have a long, long history of boot camps and what they’re trying to teach, but if you don’t understand that concept going in—this is what they’re trying to do—it can be pretty hard. You can think, <em>What difference does it really make that the corners on my rack are folded just perfectly?</em> You know, <em>Come on. You’re being silly, and</em> the people that have the hardest time is [sic] the people that push back on that. Um, Like my brother–in-law—he made sure I knew before I went in. just do it, play the game, move on, and from that, even though I was [inaudible] playing the game, I learned the importance of that, and I learned the discipline that comes with it, which allowed me I think, later on in my short Navy career, to function at a higher level [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Now, after graduation, did you immediately leave?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, I, um—I—I left Orlando, um, and then I—I went to [Naval Air Station] Memphis[, Millington, Tennessee] for about a year of school. Um, So I can’t remember if I took any leave between boot camp and Memphis, but if I did, I didn’t take very much, um, which is one of the reasons I was in Orlando, because, um, when I was joining the Navy—working with a recruiter—at that time, the Navy had three boot camps. They had Orlando, which 60 miles from my home, [Naval Training Center] San Diego, California, or [Naval Station] Great Lakes, uh, up in Illinois—Chicago, and I said, “Do I get a choice?” He goes, “You can always ask for—request a particular boot camp.” I said, “Great.” you know, “I want to go San Diego. I don’t want to go to Orlando. Great Lakes is to cold. Send me to San Diego.” and he said, “Alright. I can do that.” he said, “I’ll put that down. Probably a good chance of getting it.” and I’m thinking, <em>Woohoo. I’m on my way to California for boot camp.</em></p>
<p>He said, “What you need to understand is, after boot camp, you’ll get one to two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” he goes, “Before you go to your next station, you’ll get,” you know, “two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “And if you want to go home you, you can go home.” I said, “Great.” He goes, “but the Navy’s going pay you to go from San Diego to Memphis. If you want to go from San Diego to Lake Wales and back to Memphis, you’re going to pay the difference,” and, um, you know, I was—I was pulling down that huge E[nlisted Rank]-1 pay. That’s when I decided that, it was just boot camp. I’ll go to Orlando [<em>laughs</em>]. So long—long answer to your question is: yeah. I did take some leave. I took two weeks afterwards, went home, um, tried to forget everything I learned. It didn’t work, and then I reported to Memphis, um, in the summer of [19]77.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Did other recruits go to the NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I believe some did. Yes, I believe some stayed there. I—I can’t recall for sure, uh, but I believe some stayed there. Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Just the sheer numbers, there must have been some that did.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, when you were on leave, uh, did, uh, a lot of the sailors to hang out in the area or stay in Orlando for a while? We have stories of them hanging out at [Orlando] Fashion [Square] Mall and, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Um, well, my guess is—now, in my case, when—when I was released, I could, you know—my family was right outside the gate. I hopped in the car and drove back to Lake Wales. Other folks had transportation to wait for, um, so they may have spent time at the, you know—that weekend at the mall. They may have transferred. I—I do know that, you know—obviously we know that NTC was also a training command for other boot camp. So there was[sic] probably sailors hanging out there.</p>
<p>and I’m supposing here, that the rules were the same as when I went—first went to Memphis, and that was: when you’re that young a sailor, if you’re going on liberty, you’re going in uniform, because we want to be able to identify you as such, because we don’t completely trust you yet. You’ve been locked up for eight weeks [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, there might be a tendency for you to get in trouble, so we want to be able to quickly identify you just in case, and we also want to remind you that you are part of the Navy now, and if you’re wearing a uniform, maybe that will be a subtle reminder that you need to represent the Navy proudly. Uh, didn’t always work that way, but, uh, it was a thought.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, we’re going to go a few years in the future and, um—and, uh—do you know anything about BRAC [Base Realignment and Closure Commission] and—and—in regards to, uh, the RTC?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yes, I do know.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Um, can you share some of your experience?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I’ll share what I know, because, um—what happened was: I, uh—I spent seven years in the Navy, and I, um [<em>clears throat</em>] —when I got out of the Navy, I went to work at the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center for about a year and a half. Then I was fortunate enough to get a job at this organization.<a title="">[1]</a> This organization was not here in this building<a title="">[2]</a> at that point. It was back on NTC Orlando.</p>
<p>So after ‘bout eight years, I’m back on base again. Uh, I’m not on the recruit side. I’m on NTC side. and we’re in—we’re in a bunch of different buildings, um, spread around the base, and these are—some of these buildings are so old, they were built by World War II POWs [Prisoners of War] —German POWs. Um, I—I guess we captured some POWs in submarines off the coast of Florida when they were—Operation Drumbeat. I think it was that what was going on. Anyway, they captured these guys and these guys built these buildings. So here, I’m checking in 1985 and I’m going in a building that was built 40 years ago, and they’re spread all over the base, and, um, [<em>clears throat</em>] unbeknownst to me at that particular time, there’s a move afoot by UCF and, back at that time, Congressman [Clarence William “Bill”] Nelson [II] —now Senator Nelson—to—to emphasize modern simulation in this brand new [Central Florida] Research Park that were in now, and so—so he was able to get 40 acres donated to the Navy. Congressman Nelson—Senator Nelson now—was able to get the building, BUILDCON built, and we moved out here, um, in ‘88. Um, my command—the command I’m in now NAWCTSD. The rest of NTC/RTC Orlando stayed, uh, on base.</p>
<p>Very fortunate move for us, because as, you know, history shows, in 1995, the 1995 BRAC decided that the Navy only needed one boot camp, uh, and they decided that boot camp was going be at the Great Lakes, Illinois. So San Diego boot camp was closed. The, uh, Orlando boot camp was closed, and the rest of the training command—because it wasn’t just boot camp. It was our Nuclear Power Schools, as well as some other schools—all on base—were all BRAC and were told to move elsewhere. Um, and so BRAC doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a series of years to get all the moves made [<em>clears throat</em>], and I often laugh, because when I—when I think about the buildings that I was in—as I said, built in World War II—we watched the BRAC process work on base, and we watched government contracting at its finest, and the NTC Orlando was a—was a very important base for the Navy. So important they invested a lot of money in infrastructure. So what they ended up having to do is they had to contractually finish these brand new buildings, so that they could then tear them down, because of the BRAC.</p>
<p>So, um, for those who saw the—the BRAC process, they completely leveled the base. All the buildings that were there, with a couple exceptions like the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital and one or two other buildings. Uh, and some of the buildings they leveled were brand new buildings. I mean, they had never been occupied, but they had to wait ‘til the contract was over and completed, and then they were torn down, and, uh, I don’t know if you were around there or not, but they literally created mountains of rubble in destroying this base.</p>
<p>Um, [<em>clears throat</em>] was it a good move? I don’t know, you know? I don’t know the, uh—the financial aspects of it. I do know that, uh, boot camp at Great Lakes has turned into a wonderful facility. I was just there a few weeks ago. Um, and the way we’re tr—training our recruits now is so much better than when we were training, when I was a sailor. Um, so from that aspect of it, it has been very positive today for the Navy. Um, Could that same thing have happened to Orlando, San Diego, and Great Lakes? Possibly, but I do know the Navy has improved their recruit training dramatically, and it just happens to be located in Great Lakes, and, uh [<em>clears throat</em>]—so I watched the BRAC process, uh, go through. Uh, I know not—I know that the decisions made were not popular by many, but in the end, uh, I think it turned out okay.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, so went to Memphis…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>For your training, and what—you trained for…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Aviation Electronics Technician.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>And then what happened?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>So after that, I was stationed at NAS [Naval Air Station] Cecil Field, which is near Jacksonville. Uh, and I was working on, um, A-7 aircraft. um, and I was there for three years, and I had a pretty good, uh—I was fairly fortunate that, in my three year tour in the A-7 outfit, I was able to work both organizational level maintenance and intermediately level maintenance, which means when I first got there, uh, [<em>clears throat</em>] I had some training, and then we deployed[?] aboard the ship, and I got to work on the flight deck, uh, and, I [<em>clears throat</em>] uh, really enjoyed it, uh—working the flight deck at night, uh, Because I was a 21 year old kid [<em>laughs</em>]. Uh, and I—you know, just the danger involved, the excitement involved, what you’re doing is just so, so wildly important that I just—it’s hardest—it’s the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life, But probably the most enjoyment I’ve ever had in my life—working on the flight deck for the first cruise.</p>
<p>The second cruise I worked in mid-level[?], which gave me a different, you know—I was more of an Electronics Technician at that particular point, because now I’m working inside the electronic boxes—trouble-shooting, not working the flight deck anymore, but I was able to do that, um, for the second cruise. So I got kind of the best of both worlds when it comes to A-7’s, and after three years, uh—at that time, the rotation for the Navy was three years, uh, sea duty, three years shore duty. So I finished my sea duty, made two cruises, um, and then I went to shore duty over at NAS Jax.<a title="">[3]</a> Um, and that was working on P-3s, and I was an instructor for Maintenance Technician and I taught them how to work on the different systems of P, and that was pretty much the summary of my career, because after that second tour, I had been in the Navy for seven years, four months, and ten days. Not that I was counting. Um, I got out and, uh, I went to work at the Space Center, and then I ended up here eventually. So is that what you’re looking for? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Your career. Did you, um, eh—did—were you involved in operations? Or, I mean, um, did you see combat or…</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Anything happen?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>No, and when—when we went aboard ship, uh, we made two cruises, and, um, it was during the period of time in our history where there wasn’t active combat going on. Um, this was—my cruises were from, uh, ’78 to ’81. Um, had a couple of incidences. The, um, Lebanon missile crisis that occurred when we were coming home one time. We had to take a detour and hang out in Libya for a while. Our pilots certainly flew in dangerous environments, especially over Libya, but I myself was never exposed, to my knowledge [<em>laughs</em>], to a combat situation.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Any other experiences that you have—your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I did go in the [Naval] Reserves for about four years. Uh, My P-3 background allowed me to, uh, join the Reserves. So I would go to Jacksonville once month, er—excuse me—one weekend a month, and then I would spend two weeks every year in Bermuda, which was pretty tough duty. So then, when they decided that the Navy looked at different things and decided that they were going to close their operations in NAS Bermuda, I figured it was probably a good time to get out of the Reserves. So, um, other than that, the rest of my time—other than a little bit of time working for the Space Center—has been working for the Navy here, um, at NAWCTSD.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So the Navy was your connection into, uh, NAWCTSD and everything of that sort?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>I think so. Yes. I shouldn’t say, “I think so,” because yes. It was. Because, um, although I was in the Navy for a short period of time, I got out for reasons. Um, I love the Navy, you know? I loved it then. I love it now. Um, when I went in the Reserves, I met someone that worked here, um, told him my background—the fact that I was an instructor for the Navy, had a degree in education, and all that stuff. He felt that there would be a good fit here at NAWCTSD. So he told me about this place and, up until then, I didn’t even know it existed. Um, so he was probably—well, not probably—it was because of my connection with him in the Reserves that I found out about this place, and he told me how to apply for a job, so that’s how I was able to get back here. I couldn’t have been happier. I don’t know that there’s a better place that I could have worked. This fits my personality, this fits my background, and—and it’s something that I really enjoy doing, so pretty fortunate that way, I guess.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, what are some of your responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Here? Um, well, um, my responsibilities now are, um, we have a command of about a thousand people—about 40 military, and this command is responsible for buying the training systems for the Navy. So, um, any sailor—whether that’s an enlisted sailor or officer sailor—that has to do something in the Navy [<em>sniffs</em>], is probably trained on a system that came out of here and the people that support it. So whether it’s a pilot, uh, flying aircraft, or it’s a Maintenance Technician that’s working on a training system—working on a trainer of their aircraft—doesn’t matter. They’ve gone through this. Even in boot camp, right now, when folks have to go to boot camp, they’re working—using training systems that came from this place.</p>
<p>Um, my responsibility to that is: I’m responsible for all the program managers that—that manage the programs that deliver those training systems. I also have, uh, duties as the, uh, deputy to the senior civilians, so that anything to do with the command, if you will, involving the civilians, I have a, uh, leadership role in making sure that the environment the folks have here is the best, um, environment they can have to produce great results for our Navy. So it’s—it’s two hats: responsible for the program management and also responsible for the total work force, uh—one of the folks responsible here at the—at the center.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Uh, you said that the command has a thousand people. That’s pretty large. Um, what do you think the impact is to this area?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Uh, lots of studies been done on that [<em>laughs</em>]. Uh, and I’ve been fortunate to watch that impact grow. Uh, I mentioned that I was on base and then we moved out here. When we moved out here, um, [<em>clears throat</em>] to the building, it was mostly trees, not buildings like we have here now. Our building’s here. There’s two other buildings. University Boulevard was a two-lane road. Uh, the only close restaurant to go to was the Olive Garden on—on [Florida State Road] 50—Colonial [Drive], um, and pretty much everything you see around here has come since then, and it’s because of, not just the Navy, but our partners the Army, and the Marine Corps—and the Air Force, to some extent—all have centered their training system acquisition here. Um, we’ve been able to do that, because of our good partners, UCF. and the industry, as well as the City of Orlando, the County of Orange county, and the State of Florida have all invested in this, because they’ve seen what an engine modeling simulation really is.</p>
<p>So [<em>clears throat</em>] I would say 12-15 years ago, we were pretty busy, and we were doing—just the Navy—doing 2-3 hundred million dollars in business. Now we do about a billion every year. Uh, The Army does two to three times that every year, um, and that’s new acquisitions going out every year. Our total portfolio for the Navy is about four or 5 billion dollars’ worth of acquisitions we’re managing at one time. Because not only are we responsible for putting those training systems out there, the Navy has changed their business model in the last 20 years. In that these training systems that are out in the field for our sailors to train on, are maintained by civilians—by contractors. So were responsible for putting those contractors out there to maintain those—those, uh, devices that train. As I said—I love to say over and over again, every sailor that—in the Navy has touched one of our products. Has—has benefited from one of our products. So that’s something I’m very proud of—to be a small part of this big organization that provides that for the—for our Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>So the other Armed Forces are very involved?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>Yes, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>You don’t see that too often.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Yeah, [<em>clears throat</em>] we like to brag. Ourselves and the, uh—the way this organization—this organization, NAWCTSD—whatever it was called back then—actually started in the World War II era in a little Chevrolet—use to be a Chevrolet dealership up in the [Washington,] D.C. area, [<em>sniffs</em>] um, [<em>clears throat</em>] then moved to New York, and when it moved to New York, the Army said, “Hey. We like what you guys are doing.” So in 1950, the Army and the Navy signed a memorandum of agreement that said were going work together on this modern simulation training stuff, and when we moved from New York, the Army moved with us down to Orlando, and that MOA [memorandum of agreement] that we signed in 1950 still stands unaltered, and we believe it’s the longest standing MOA between the Army and the Navy ever. So 65—almost 65 years, we’ve had an MOA that’s been unaltered, and if you’re familiar the way the Army and the Navy sometimes play together, that’s a pretty amazing fact. So we—we’re proud of that. So yes. We’re strong partners with both the Army and our Marine friends, and the Air Force as well.</p>
<p><strong>Miller <br /></strong>And, um, just some closing questions about the [Lone Sailor] Memorial [Project] itself. Um, what—what do you think of the memorial and, you know, memorializing Baldwin Park and, you know, the Grinder?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I think it’s a great idea. I—I—I think it’s a great idea, and I got to tell you Mike Philips s my hero, because, um, I can’t even remember how many—how many years ago it was. Oh, there. It’s up there. So 2005-2006 time frame, I was president of Central Florida Navy League here, and Mike Philips came to me and says, “Hey. I’ve got this idea. I want to put the Lone S—Sailor Memorial up in Baldwin Park, and I think it’s a great idea.” I said, “I think it’s a great idea too.” and then I—he said that it’s going to cost this amount of money, and I looked at Mike and I just—I almost laughed at him, because, like, “Mike, oh, my gosh. With[?] that kind of money, I just can’t ever see that happening. As—as great as the Navy was to this place, I just can’t ever see that happening,” and dag gummit, I’m so happy that I was wrong and Mike was right. So I’m really excited about—no—no bones about it. Mike Philips is the driving force behind this. A lot of folks have—have pitched in, and [inaudible], but Mike was the visionary that said, “This is what we need to do.” and his dream and our dream is coming true. It’s just the neatest thing that I could think of.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Have you talked to other graduates who—about this?</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>I’ve talked to my brother-in-law.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Mmm.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>And he’s kind of excited about it. Um, both him and I want to do the, uh, paver bricks for, um, our— time there. Um, so—but that’s probably, you know, it—it’s—we work with a lot of people here in the building. Uh, and quite a few probably have gone through boot camp, but they’re in Orlando, but we don’t compare that much. I mean, you know, in the Navy, when you start telling sea stories, it’s about, “I was on this ship,” or “I was on this cruise,” or “Let me tell you about this liberty port.” no one ever really says, “And I went to boot camp at…” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p>So that’s just not, you know, because quite—I shouldn’t say this, but quite frankly, when you show up for boot camp, the first day and you leave the last day, it didn’t really matter whether you were in Orlando, San Diego, or Great Lakes. It was all the same to you. It was marching behind the guy in front of you, classes, late nights, you know—so that stuff. So there’s probably that—that connection that sailors have with their first ship and maybe their first base, as there is with boot camp. doesn’t mean it’s not important, um, but that’s probably why folks don’t—I mean, I know there’s[sic] guys—I work with a lot of retired guys—ex-Navy guys. I couldn’t tell you how many of them went to Orlando, to be honest, you may want to cut this part out [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] No, no. All the stories are valuable—but great. Thank you very much.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>It was a pleasant being asked these questions again and give me a chance to travel down memory lane.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>When we started, I told you I didn’t have much that I remembered, but you’re right once. You start, it just starts to flow.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Good memories. You have a nice smile too.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews <br /></strong>Yes, thanks for the opportunity.</p>
<p><strong>Miller<br /></strong>Well, thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Matthews<br /></strong>Sure. Alright, and I need to sign some forms for ya?</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division [NAWCTSD].</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando, located at 12201 Science Drive.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Jacksonville.</p>
</div>
</div>
A-7
Attack Squadron 174
aviation electronics technicians
Baldwin Park
Base Realignment and Closure Commission
basic training
Bill Nelson
boot camps
BRAC
BUILDCON
Central Florida Navy League
Central Florida Research Park
Clarence William Nelson II
co-educational
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
CVHP
demolitions
E-1
education
Enlisted Rank 1
enlistment
Expeditionary Medal
gender segregation
graduations
Grinder
Jacksonville
Lake Wales High School
Lake Wales Junior High School
Ling-Temco-Vought A-7 Corsair II
Lockheed P-3 Orion
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Maintenance Technician
marching
Mark Miller
Master Training Specialist
memorials
Memphis, Tennessee
Mike Philips
military education
military instructors
military leave
military training
Millington, Tennessee
NAMTRADET
NAS Jacksonville
NAS Memphis
Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment
Naval Air Station Cecil Field
Naval Air Station Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Memphis
Naval Air Systems Command, the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division
Naval Reserve
Navy League
NAWCTSD
orlando
P-3
POW
prisoner-of-war
Recruit Training Center Orlando
Research Park
Rob Matthews
Robert Matthews
RTC Orlando
sailors
Science Drive
segregation
simulations
simulators
Soaper
Spook Hill Elementary School
training
training systems
U.S. Naval Reserves
U.S. Representatives
U.S. Senators
University Boulevard
USS Blue Jacket
VA-174
VA-87
veterans
World War II
WWII
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/215158d1b22ce578f3eea62eb6612695.pdf
d1fd24fc12b62f5a10c38f2dbcff6115
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Grossi, Jared
Interviewee
Holtz, Alan R.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Alan R. Holtz
Alternative Title
Oral History, Holtz
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Operation Desert Shield, 1990-1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Persian Gulf War, 1991
Iraq War
Description
An oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz, who served in the U.S. Navy, during the Vietnam War, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. Born in the Brooklyn borough of New York City, New York, Holtz enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam War. He later joined the U.S. Naval Reserve and helped mobilize Reservists during the Persian Gulf War in 1991. This oral history interview was conducted by Jared Grossi on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include enlistment, boot camp, the USS <em>Hancock</em>, the Vietnam War, the Naval Reserves, Operation Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:33 Background<br />0:01:45 Enlistment<br />0:02:50 Boot camp and USS <em>Hancock</em><br />0:05:55 Vietnam War<br />0:09:22 Naval Reserves and going back to school<br />0:10:23 Liberty and awards<br />0:12:48 Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm<br />0:14:43 Off-duty activities<br />0:16:07 Keeping in contact with other sailors, injuries, and September 11th<br />0:17:31 Civilian life<br />0:18:55 Lessons learned from the Navy<br />0:19:20 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Alan R. Holtz. Interview conducted by Jared Grossi in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
13-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 27-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>. Interviewed by Jared Grossi, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016189, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Vietnam
Philippines
Creator
Holtz, Alan R.
Grossi, Jared
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-11-13
Date Issued
2015-02
Date Copyrighted
2014-11-13
Format
application/website
application/pdf
Extent
432 MB
164 KB
Medium
21-minute and 27-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording
13-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Jared Grossi and Alan R. Holtz.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Matthews, Eamonn, Ben Loeterman, and Will Lyman. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/34145115" target="_blank"><em>The Gulf War</em></a>. Alexandria, VA: PBS Video, 1996.
Anderson, Michael G. <a href="/www.worldcat.org/oclc/27694401" target="_blank"><em>The Air Force Rapid Response Process: Streamlined Acquisition During Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm: Project Air Force Analysis of the Air War in the Gulf</em></a>. Santa Monica, CA: Rand Corp, 1992.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/502/rec/1" target="_blank">Holtz, Alan R.</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Three.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Today, it is November 11<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Alan [R.] Holtz, who served in the Navy. He served in Vietnam [War] and helped mobilize Naval Reservists during Operation Devert[sic]—Desert Shield, and Operation Desert Storm. He completed his service as an E[nlisted]-6 rank. My name is Jared Grossi. We are interviewing Mr. Holtz as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview at—in Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Alright. So Mr. Holtz…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>Yes?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Where were you born? </p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>I was born in Brooklyn[, New York City], New York.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi <br /></strong>Okay. What was your childhood like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>My childhood? It was very good. I, uh—my parents were very, very good. I had three brothers. We had a great time. I really had a good childhood. I liked it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>You, uh—are you the oldest of the brothers?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>No, I’m the second. I have one older brother and the rest are younger than me.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz <br /></strong>Uh, my father was in the Army during World War II, but then he was—but then he, uh—he worked for a packaging company, I believe, in—in Brooklyn.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz </strong>And my mom, uh, stayed home and raised us four kids. I don’t think she worked outside though.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi </strong>Alright. Um, did—Other than your father, did anyone else enlist before you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, my father I had a couple of uncles that were in during World War II, and that’s it. My brother tried to enlist in the Air Force, and I think his vision wasn’t good, so he didn’t—he didn’t make it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what type of education did receive before your service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, right—right out of high school, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How old were you when you enlisted? I mean, you said it was after high school.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, 18.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what caused you to enlist?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it’s kind of a long story. They had the draft at that time, and people were being drafted into the Vietnam War, and it was, uh, sort of a lottery system, where would they tell you your number and you had a better chance of getting drafted, so I had a pretty good chance that I was going to be drafted. So to get a better choice of where you want to go, I enlisted.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What did your family think of your enlistment?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they—they were happy about it. Like I said, my uncle was in the Navy and said it was the best one of the services, even though my father was in the Army. So they were happy about it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was, uh, boot camp like in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Boot camp—it was—it was very tough for me, because it was the first time I was like away from home, alone there, and not, you know—scared what was going happen, but I ended up doing good[sic], ‘cause I had, uh—I was in pretty good shape. So the physical stuff wasn’t that hard for me, so I—I did good[sic].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, where were you stationed after completing your training?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, after—after boot camp, I went to training in San Diego, California, and the first place I was stationed was onboard an aircraft carrier, U—USS <em>Hancock</em></p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was your experience when you first arrived where you were stationed?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />When I first arrived, it was—it was just very different than anything that I had seen before. Nev—I’d never been on a ship, and it was really big. Um, lot of people. You have to live in, uh—sleeping on a little bunk in a room with a lot of other people. So it was—it was hard to get used to.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Um, what was your instructor like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz<br /></strong>In—in boot camp, you mean?</p>
<p><strong>Grossi<br /></strong>Uh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, he, eh—He was good. You—first you get there, and you’re scared, and you’re—hate them and everything, but you get used to it. Then once you graduate, you appreciate what he did, you know, what he taught you, and everything.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />So you mentioned living on the carrier. What was, uh, the Navy life like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I—I liked it. Once you get out of boot camp, you realize it’s more like a job and it’s not all going to be like you were—like it was in boot camp. So you, uh—you get used to it pretty fast. It was good. It was fun. Some of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Um, was there any—what was not fun about it?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />What was not fun was the hours. You work a lot of hours, a lot of hard work, and, uh, the thing I got trained for was, uh, personnel, which is human resources. So when you work in human resources and in an office, they—the other people on the ship don’t think you’re doing anything, ‘cause you’re not out there manning the guns, or steering the ship, or anything important. Your, uh—you know, according to them. So you get volun—you get volunteered to do other work to help other departments. So it’s—it’s a lot of work, a lot of hours.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. So what were some of your other duties then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I worked in the—in the laundry, pressing uniforms and stuff, and, um, just, uh, security watches and stuff, go—security. Guard duty is called “watches” in the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what were the watches like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, you get different hours, like you’d have f—a four-hour period, where you just, you know, stand guard over something or, you know, security of the ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, what was your assignment during the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I was in the personnel office on the aircraft carrier, and I was, uh, in support of an air squadron, where they—the, uh, pilots would fly off the carrier and do whatever they had to do over there, and just their support, like their—make sure their pay, their paper work got done, you know, transfers, retirements, whatever they had to do. All the office work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, tell me about your, um, Western Pacific [Ocean] and your Mediterranean [Sea] cruise?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />That, uh—well, the Western Pacific was while I was on the aircraft carrier, and where they would go off the coast of Vietnam for a while, and then after that, they would go into different ports. So I got to see a lot of the world over there. It was—it was really good. The Philippines was my favorite place.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh, what made it your favorite place?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, just that the people are very—they’re very friendly. They’re very nice. They—they support, you know—they supported the military. Met a lot of nice people there, and also the, uh, beaches, mountains, everything—just a beautiful place to relax, after being out at sea for a long time. </p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. What was the typical day like during this period?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />A typical day? Uh, like I said, there’s—there’s[sic] long hours, and your—Besides the regular office hours, which is—they try to make it eight to five, but then you’re on call and other things come up, so you end up staying there a lot longer or being called in the middle of the night, and then, if you had one of those, uh, watches or some other duties you had to do that—they don’t take the hours away from your regular office work. You still have to be there. So some days you’d be working without any sleep.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What was the food like?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />The food was—was actually good. I know people complain about it, but it was—it was good. You had a lot of choices. You got—you don’t have that much time to eat sometimes, but the—the food was really good. They did a—they did a good job.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, what would you do to entertain yourself at times?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they had different activities, and s—you know, sports. ‘cause we would like—‘cause when I’m on an aircraft carrier that has a big flight deck, so during the times that they’re not, uh, landing and taking off aircraft, they’re—use it for sports, games, and they had movies, and they—we would get our mail stuff, and they didn’t have the Internet back then, but…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />We could make phone calls and send messages.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Did the Navy change after the Vietnam War?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it cha—Yeah. It changed a lot. A lot of things changed.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Could you tell me about some of the changes?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, see, it seemed during the war, they were more relaxed about, you know, haircuts, uniforms, A lot of things. Uh, even—even drug use was pretty prevalent during the Vietnam War, and they didn’t—seemed like they really cared that much, and it went from that to the zero tolerance policy pretty quickly. You know, I guess they realized it was getting quite out of hand [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, tell me about the Naval Reserves.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />They—well, after— after my first four years, I got out for a few months. was going back to school, but then I decided to go back in and I went into the—it was called Training and Administration of the Reserves program, Where I’d work at Reserve centers and air stations, just training—training Reserves, and supporting them, doing there paper work, and keeping records and things.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said you went back to school. Um, what’d you go back to school for?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I—I went back to get an AA [Associate of Arts] degree, which I did, you know, start. When I got out, I started going full-time, but then I went back in the military and went just part-time ‘til I finished then.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright, and then you said you wound up going back in? Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Why’d you decide to do that?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, I got married, and then I was going to have a kid. So I thought that would be—I thought that would be a good, uh—good career to have, since I liked it a lot for the first four years. So I decided to go back in and make a career out of it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what was your job in the Reserves?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, tt was still office work. It was, um, personnel, but, uh, helping with the training of Reserves. Like the Reserves that would come in one weekend a month, and they’d get trained. The—the person—the administrative ones—I would help train them, and also keep all there records and everything for all the Reserves. You know, transfers, retirements, promotions. Everything they do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how did moving up through the ranks change your responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it changed a lot. You get a lot more responsibility pretty quick[sic] from when you first go in and just—I made it all the way up to E6, which is, uh, supervisor. So it’s a lot of responsibility, because you have a lot of other people to worry about and make sure there doing their job as well.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Uh, what was one of your most memoral[sic]—memorable days throughout your service in your career—in the serving career?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, most memorable days? Uh, I guess, uh, being on a ship and traveling. You know, any one of those days, when you’re—you know, you work hard, but then when you finally get into a port, they give you a lot of time off to do what you want and relax, and I like that part of traveling. Seeing new places.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Traveling must have been fun. Um, what were some of the things you do when you um, would dock at ports?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, they would have—they would have tours available, you know, they’re trying to encourage you not to just go out to bars, like some people did. Um, so I didn’t do too much of that. I went on a lot of the bus tours and they had events scheduled for us. Like you could go help, uh, different charity events, go help, like—I remember one time, we painted a church or helped this, uh, shelter for people. A lot of things like that, where you can help the community too. They didn’t want us to just go out there and have fun and leave [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />[<em>laughs</em>] Um, did your receive any awards?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I’ve got a lot of—a lot of different medals and awards for different things. I don’t even remember them all.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How did you help exactly in Operation Desert Storm and [Operation Desert] Shield?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, well, that—at that time, I was at a Reserve center, and they mobilized some of the Reserve units to send them over there to—to, uh, well, fight, or set up things, whatever, and so we were—when you’re in the Reserves, they have these drills all the time about mobilizing the Reserves and calling them into active duty, and you think it’s never going to really happen, but that was the real thing. We had to mobilize them—and I think it was about three hundred people from our Reserve units—and get them ready, get them there orders, paper work and everything, and travel arrangements, and send them over there.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. You said there was[sic], uh, drills and you actually wound up having to do them. Um, did the drills you feel help? Or was the actual event…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, the actual event’s a lot different than—it—it helped—it—the drills helped you prepare for it, but then when it actually happens, they—there isn’t time to actually to do it—there wasn’t time to actually do it step-by-step the way you plan. You know, Set up the incoming—set up the tables, set up the—what forms they’re going to need. So it—it worked out a lot different than you planned, but you still got it done.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, did your experience in Desert Storm and Shield differ from Vietnam?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, yeah. It was a lot different, ‘cause I was just at the Reserve center, and—and preparing these other people to go where I—I—In Vietnam War, I was actually on the ship, right off the coast there, and even though I was working the office, I was more, you know—closer to the action that was going on, supporting the people, but, uh, for that for that—for that operation, I was just at the Reserve center, and getting them ready to go there. So it seemed like it was further from the actual thing.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, what kind of activities did you do while off duty? Um, I know you mentioned you—you’d go on tour and stuff…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />During the dockings. Um, was it just—I mean, uh—I guess when you’re off duty, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, just—well, if I’m in a different—At the Reserve center or at the…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Uh, I—just In general</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, if you’re…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />When you were off duty.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, when it—when it—it’s different when you’re off duty overseas. I would just, you know, travel, see, you know—See what I could find, enjoy the scenery and new places, but once I was at Reserves center, Reserves center is in the—in that program, I was back home. So I was married and had kids. So I was just doing normal, you know—normal daily life, and it was more like a regular job, than when you’re on a ship.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Did you visit back home often?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Yeah, I would. Yeah, my parents were still in New York most of that time, so I would—I would fly home whenever I could. Get vacation. They gave you a lot of time off in the military, when—when they can.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, when you were back home, what did you do for work or just entertainment then?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, spend time with my parents and my brothers, and visiting, mostly.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um, did you still keep in contact with any of your friends you made in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I did for a while, but it was hard to do that, ‘cause so many people get transferred, and you don’t see them again, and—So I lost track of a lot of them, but there was a few that I—that I still kept in contract[sic] —contact with.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, could you tell me about some of the injuries you received?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, first injury—first injury I got—when I was working on that aircraft carrier, I worked in the laundry, and pressed my hand down on…</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />On the steam press. So that’s how I got that injury. So I call it my “Vietnam War injury,” but not really. It was on the aircraft carrier, working in the laundry, and got—got that hand burned, and some other things: I just hurt my back while I was there, so— but nothing too serious. I’m still able to work.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How did, uh, the events of 9/11<a title="">[1]</a> affect you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />How did it affect me? I was—I remember being very angry when it—when it happened, and wishing I was back in the military, so I could go do something about it, you know? Help fight whoever was doing it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />How was the transition from the Navy life into the civilian life?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, it was very hard, at first, to—when you’re looking for a job, and you try to relate what you did in the military to civilian job. So you work in an office and, you know, you find out that all you’re qualified to do is be a secretary, or something like that. So actually, I was, uh, a medical services secretary, when I first got out. That was the first job they had at, uh, Humana[, Inc.] health care.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, how—how has the civilian life affected you?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, well—well, I got used to it pretty quickly, and I had other jobs since then, and then finally found UCF [University of Central Florida], which I like.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. How have the—the way the civilians treated you over the years—how has that been?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />It’s—it’s been good, mostly. Most people—most people, you know, they appreciate what you did. they—there’s, you know, this preference for veterans, and a lot of jobs that you go for, you know—to at least get you the interview to see if you’re qualified to get the job, but, uh, most people treat you—treat you good[sic]. I never had anybody who didn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />What lessons, from your time in the Navy, do you consider valuable?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Uh, I think I learned a lot about working, do, uh—doing the best job that you can, getting it—trying to get everything done, so you can enjoy your time off, and, uh, doing a good job working with other people—Team work. A lot—a lot of things you learn there, you know, still relates to whatever job you have outside.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Do you have any, uh, unusual or funny stories in your time of the service?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not really [<em>laughs</em>]—not really that I can think of. I’m sure there were some.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Um…</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Well, now, there’s some unusual things when I was working at the Reserve centers. There sometimes—sometimes, they’re the only military in the area. So they’ve let you—make you volunteer for a lot of different things, like security and different things that you don’t need security for. They just wanted the local military to be there, and doing funerals, and things that I didn’t like to do.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, is there anything else we missed or you would like to talk about?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Um, no, not—not really. Not that I can think of.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, do you have any messages or lessons you’d like to pass on to the young—the young people?</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Oh, about the military? Just that it—it is a good career. Uh, the benefits are great, now that I’m retired. I did—I did, you know, 20 years. Now that I’m retired, it’s really worth it to, uh—the benefit you get, through retirement, the medical care, everything. So it’s worth it.</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Alright. Uh, questions?</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Grossi</strong><br />Okay. Um, well, I’d like to thank you, Mr. Holtz, for your time. I and the UCF community really appreciate you coming out today and telling your story, Um, in the—in the short time in the interview [<em>laughs</em>]. Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Holtz</strong><br />Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> September 11<sup>th</sup>, 2001.</p>
</div>
</div>
1st Gulf War
1st Iraq War
9/11
aircraft carrier
aircraft carriers
Alan R. Holtz
basic training
boot camp
boot camps
Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
CVHP
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Desert Shield
Desert Storm
drafts
E-6
education
Enlisted Rank 6
enlistment
First Gulf War
First Iraq War
Gulf War
Hancock
instructors
Iraq War
Jared Grossi
Kuwait War
liberties
liberty
military education
military training
naval instructors
North Vietnam
Operation Desert Shield
Operation Desert Storm
Persian Gulf War
Philippines
Republic of the Philippines
Republic of Vietnam
San Diego, California
selective service
September 11th
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
South Vietnam
TAR
terrorism
terrorists
training
Training and Administration of the Reserve
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
USS Hancock
veterans
Vietnam
Vietnam War
watch
watches
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/8dc754f78542e2b20a29fd8e3a923981.pdf
90a8914bd4d2c5bdbbead62142908165
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Connie Reuter
Alternative Title
Oral History, Reuter
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Navy
Orlando (Fla.)
Description
An oral history interview of Martha Reuter (b. 1964), who is nicknamed Connie. Reuter was born in Abingdon, Virginia, on March 20, 1964. She enlisted in the U.S. Navy (USN) on May 7, 1984, and completed her service on April 1, 1988. Reuter re-enlisted just six months later in the U.S. Naval Reserve (USNR) and was discharged on October 31, 2005. Reuter attended Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). She later served at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Corpus Christi, Texas, and Naval Air Station Ingleside in Ingleside, Texas.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Leanne Wiggins on March 6, 2014. Interview topics include Reuter's background, enlistment, naval training, attending boot camp at NTC Orlando, serving was a woman in the Navy, graduation from boot camp, Liberty Call, the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em>, the Grinder, serving as a photographer's mater, the Naval Reserve, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:35 Background<br />0:02:12 Enlistment<br />0:04:12 Boot camp at Naval Training Center Orlando<br />0:08:49 Training as a woman in the Navy<br />0:11:15 Responsibilities and social interactions at boot camp<br />0:15:09 Training<br />0:17:19 Proudest and memorable moments<br />0:19:54 USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and the Grinder<br />0:22:48 Chapel and chow hall<br />0:24:12 Graduation and Navy memorabilia<br />0:26:56 Serving as a photographer's mate<br />0:32:04 Naval Reserve<br />0:34:44 Values learned from the Navy<br />0:36:59 Lone Sailor Memorial Project<br />0:41:49 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Martha Reuter. Interview conducted by Leanne Wiggins at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>. Interviewed by Leanne Wiggins. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/294/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014908</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a><a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>.
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 43-minute and 30-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>. Interviewed by Leanne Wiggins. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/294/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014908</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Naval Air Station Corpus Christi, Corpus Christi, Texas
Naval Station Ingelside, Ingelside, Texas
World Trade Center, New York City, New York
Creator
Reuter, Connie
Wiggins, Leanne
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-03-06
Date Issued
2014-09
Date Copyrighted
2014-03-06
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
373 MB
172 MB
Medium
43-minute and 30-second DVD audio/video recording
14-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Leanne Wiggins and Connie Reuter and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/lone-sailor-history/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/lone-sailor-history/.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/223/" target="_blank">Reuter, Martha</a>
Transcript
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Today’s date is Thursday, March 6<sup>th</sup>, 2014. I am interviewing Martha “Connie” Reuter, who served in the United States Navy. She served on active duty between May 1984 and April 1988, and as a [Naval] Reserve between October 1988 and October 2005. My name is Leanne Wiggins. I am interviewing Ms. Reuter as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Ms. Reuter, will you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I was born in Abingdon, Virginia. March 20<sup>th</sup>, 1964.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And what did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and, um, my dad was a, um, pastor—Lutheran minister.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And do you have any brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>And, uh, one older brother.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Growing up, where did you go to school?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, we moved, uh, a couple of times during my childhood. Um, started out, uh, around Shenandoah, Virginia. Moved to Martinsville, Virginia. I spent most of my, uh, ah, years in, uh, Martinsville, and then, um, moved to, uh, Newton, North Carolina, for, uh, my junior and senior year of high school.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And what did you do before entering the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I was, uh, uh, trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life [<em>laughs</em>]. So I was working, um, at a Hardee’s. I had gone to school for retail merchandising. Um, decided, uh, not to go that route. Was trying to figure out what to do, and, uh, one of my friends came through and said “Connie, let’s join the Navy.” And we were going to go in on the [Navy] Buddy [Enlistment] Program. And, uh, I went to a recruiter about three times. The fourth time I said, uh, “If I’m going to go, I’m going to go now.” and, uh, I signed on the Delayed Entry Program in February, and I left for boot camp in May. My friend did not go [<em>laughs</em>]. So it was just me.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So why did you choose the Navy, as opposed to other branches of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>As, uh—basically, I had no clue. I just, uh—like I said, when she came through and said, “I got a[sic] idea. Let’s join the Navy,”—’cause her boyfriend had joined, and, um—uh, was like, “Great.”</p>
<p>I have, uh—some of my relatives, um, are—have also been in the military. My cousin, who was in the Air Force, my uncle, uh, in the Army, and then my grandfather was in the Army. But it wasn’t, uh—I didn’t live near any big military bases, so I really didn’t—didn’t know. So I said—when she decided—when she said, “Let’s join the Navy,” I— Alright.” [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How did, uh, your family members feel about you joining the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I think they were—they were definitely, uh, proud. Um, shocked, because I did all that and, uh, going to the recruiter and everything, um, without telling them [<em>laughs</em>]. So, um, after I had already join[sic], came home and told them.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So where did you attend boot camp?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, eh, Orlando, Florida.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>And were you trained to do—what were you trained to do for your career in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, while I was [inaudible] —I came in non-designated, so I didn’t decide ahead of time what career I wanted to do in the Navy. So I, uh—after, uh, boot camp, I went to Airman Apprenticeship Training School. And, um, from there got my, um, first duty station, talked to the Navy career counselor, and decided from there.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>When did you begin your training at NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, May 7<sup>th</sup>, 1984.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Before coming to NTC Orlando, what did you know about the region, militarily or otherwise?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Nothing, uh, military-wise. And, of course, for Orlando, all you basically hear about is, uh, Walt Disney World. I had, a, uh—a [sic] uncle and cousins, who lived here. And so we had come down, um, once to visit them, and we went to Walt Disney World when I was a kid. And, um, so that’s all I knew. I had no idea about the military.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How long were you at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, I did the, uh, eight weeks of boot camp. And then, I believe Airman Apprenticeship Training was an additional four weeks. And, um, so then I left, all total, ‘round September.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>When you first arrived, what was your first impression of the base or the area?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, well, when I first arrived, it was at night. Um, I was 20 years old, and that was my, uh, first time being on a commercial airplane. So, um, the MEPs [Military Entrance Processing] station was in Charlotte, North Carolina. So I flew from Charlotte to Orlando, as my first time on a commercial airplane. And, uh, it was at night. Uh, don’t remember much [<em>laughs</em>], okay?</p>
<p>Uh, I know we had a bus, came right to the base, um, uh, everybody—when I came into the barracks, most of everybody was in their bunks already going to sleep. Um, I remember getting in my bunk, and then, uh, realizing I had to go to the bathroom. Scared to ask if I could get up and go to the bathroom, But I did, [<em>laughs</em>] and, uh—um, so then, I went back to sleep and woke up the next morning and that’s when it all began.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what were your first days of service like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Pretty, um, uh, regimented—routine. Start dinner routine, start, uh, issuing, um, uniforms. uh, even though I had, uh, cut my hair short before I came to Orlando for boot camp, um, because I thought that, uh, you know, <em>If I’m going to have my hair short, I want to be able to kind of, you know</em>—<em>well, do it myself</em>. [<em>laughs</em>] Well, it didn’t matter. You still went to the barbershop. They still cut some more off, even though it was already short. So I had, uh, um, short hair for the first time in my life [<em>laughs</em>]. And, um, uh, like I said, everything was pretty much, uh, just routine. You did as you were told. You stood where they told you to stand, listen to instructions, and everything. And if you listened well, you got along great.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what was it like to be a woman at NTC Orlando?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, it—it really didn’t, uh, bother me at all being a woman at NTC Orlando. Um, I didn’t have any problems at boot camp. Um, I know some of my bunkmates, uh, uh, did. Um, and it wasn’t necessarily—I don’t think—because of a woman. It’s just a—a different—it’s an adjustment.</p>
<p>Um, but, uh, uh, we—the boys were still around. Uh, we had—went to classes with them. Um, saw them in the—at chow halls. All that. But we didn’t march with them, didn’t have them in the barracks, uh, and on—or anything. But, um, I remember we called them “trees.” and you were not allowed to look at the “trees” or anything.</p>
<p>But, um, one of the best pieces of advice that I got before I left for boot camp, was my friend’s boyfriend, who was in the Navy already. He said “When they first ask you to raise your hand—to be on either the color guard, drill team, flag guard—raise your hand.” So I was like, “Okay.” So as soon as my company commanders, you know, asked that question, I raised my hand and they picked me and it was the best advice I had ever gotten. Uh, I had a really good time being on the drill team. Uh, you were on the drill team with the boys, so therefore you could talk to them [<em>laughs</em>] and meet them. Um, uh, I got out of a lot of other inspections, a lot of the PT [physical training], um, all that, because we had to go to drill practice. And so again, that was the best advice I could have ever gotten.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So besides your responsibilities with the drill team, what were—did you have any other primary responsibilities?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>No. That was it in boot camp. just, uh, keep everything in shipshape, um, make up your bunk correctly, have your clothes folded correctly, um, clean the barracks some, uh, go to classes, and, uh, that was about it.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So what was your overall impression of the recruits and their training during your time at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>I felt it was very good. Um, uh, as—I felt comfortable. Um, I felt like I could trust them. Um, I said I didn’t have any problems. Um, when they yelled—you know, the company commanders yelled or—or whatever, but, you know, it didn’t bother me. I just let it roll—roll off my back. You know, do what they say. That’s it. Um, it, uh, definitely taught me a lot. Um, for, uh—everybody should go through it [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So who did you interact with on a daily basis?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>It was mainly my, um—the bunkmates that were closest to me. So, um, I was in the lower bunk, so, uh, my shipmate, who was in the top bunk, uh, we became very good friends. And the shipmate pretty much right next to me, we became really good friends. And, um, uh, other than that there was, uh, one of—one of my, um, boot camp, uh, ladies that were[sic]—that was in my company, she got stationed at the same place I did for the first duty station. So, uh, when I went to my first duty station, I already knew one person. So that was great. Um, and then a couple years later, while I was there, uh, one of, um—another girl that I was in, uh—I was in boot camp with, got stationed there, and so we became really good friends after that.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Who were your instructors, and what were they like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>We had, uh, the company commanders, um, was[sic] Hines[sp] and Merritt[sp] —um, Petty Officer Hines and Petty Officer Merritt. Um, of course, I do not know their first name, [<em>laughs</em>], because you don’t have first names in boot camp. Uh, everything is by your last name. But, um, again, like I said, when they—they would, you know, yell if they had to.</p>
<p>Um, I remember one time, you know, they asked you about what a gig line is, and I had no idea. And, um, you know, they would go around and ask everybody, and none of us knew, but we learned awfully quick[sic] what a gig line was. And [<em>laughs</em>] that’s something you’ll never forget.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was a gig line?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>That is the line on your shirt that overlaps, it lines up with your belt buckle all the way down. That’s the gig line.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the hardest thing that you remember doing at NTC?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>sigh</em>] Oh, gosh. Um, I don’t know about the hardest. There was, uh, a couple—uh, we did go in the gas chamber, and, uh, so it was kind of scary. Um, and, uh, you know, you all go in as a group. They tell you to take your mask off. You start feeling the, uh, um, burn. And, uh, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] I remember one of our girls in the company, way in the back, was like “Help!” And she had such a high pitched voice and everybody started laughing. And, um, so then, um, they—by that time, they finally—they opened the door and you all came out. But, um, you experience that.</p>
<p>You experienced, um, putting out a fire and, uh, putting out a fire on a ship with a big hose and working together as a team. Um, you experienced, uh, swimming, and how to survive in swimming and using your clothes as floatation devices.</p>
<p>Um, that’s the first time I’d ever shot a gun, uh, I think it was a, uh, .45 [caliber handgun]. And, um—so that was an experience. Um, so I can’t really say anything was really hard. I was already fairly physically fit before I went in. um, and I could—I listened well and took instructions well.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was a moment that you felt the most proud?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Oh, gosh. Um, graduation [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was graduation like?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, uh, my parents had come down, and, um, my uncle had come over. And, uh, uh, it was a good time. And we went also went on a Liberty Call. And, um, I went with my parents, and—and, uh, couple of my, um, uh, friends from boot camp. I went to SeaWorld [Orlando], and, uh—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Can you tell me a story of a time at NTC Orlando that you’ll never forget?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Oh, let’s see. There’s several. Um, oh [<em>laughs</em>], I’ll never forget—um, after boot camp, I was at a—I went to, uh, Airman Apprenticeship Training School, which was, uh, another additional four weeks. And during that time, we could have, uh, Liberty Call at around 16:00 to 16:30— somewhere around there. Never failed. Orlando, during that time frame, would, uh—there would always be a huge thunderstorm downpour, uh, right at Liberty Call. So right when you were getting ready to go out on the [<em>laughs</em>] town or whatever, um, and have a little bit of your own time, they would have to cancel Liberty Call. And it would only last about an hour, and then Liberty was open. So it [<em>laughs</em>] —never failed. And still to this day [<em>laughs</em>] [<em>sniffs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How would you describe the USS <em>Blue Jacket</em> and its function?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, I think, uh, back then, it was, uh, a very good replica of a Navy ship. And, uh, I said that is where we went to learn how to, uh, fight a fire on a ship, to work as a team. um, and, uh, even though, during my Navy career [<em>laughs</em>], uh, I never went out to sea—I was on the land on shore—but, uh, I’m sure, uh, it was—it was a good replica for the real thing.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the official purpose of the Grinder, and what was its significance to you and the recruits?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>The Grinder was, uh, where you marched and you marched [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, you also did the PT out there. Uh, the Grinder was a large, um—uh, what was it? Concrete or asphalt area. Um, big rectangle that you just marched up and down. And, uh, so you learned how to march in a straight line, you learned how to, uh, take the corners while you’re marching, and, um, you spend a lot of time out on the Grinder [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What other trainings went on at the base?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, again, as I said, I went to Airman Apprenticeship Training School, and, um—but there were also, um, Nuclear Power School out there, and—um, which of course, while you’re in boot camp, you don’t know that anything else is going on around you, except for your little area. But, um, uh, during Airman Apprenticeship Training School, you could, uh, get to know a little bit more of the base. And, uh, you could go to the, uh—also during boot camp and afterwards, go to the chapel on Sundays, and—and, uh, so you get to learn a little bit more.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Were there any other areas on base that were of particular importance to you?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, besides the chapel? It was, uh, the chapel [<em>laughs</em>]. And, um, another thing I will also never forget is: when you march up, getting ready to go into the chow hall, there is, um, uh, a recruit up there who has this big spiel about, uh, “You have 20 minutes, and 20 minutes only to eat your fine Navy chow.” and, uh, I know that there’s more, but, uh, [<em>laughs</em>] that’s the line that I remember. And, uh, you just went into the chow hall, got your food, ate. There were always huge, um, bottles of peanut butter on the tables, because peanut butter, uh, was more sustaining, and to—to help you keep full, if you needed to or whatever. But, uh, uh, you would always put peanut butter on, on the, uh, uh, chocolate bars, the ice cream, or make peanut butter sandwiches, or something, but there was always a huge jar of peanut butter.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] So what did it feel like to graduate and finally put that hat on?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] This was, uh, um, my cover that I got from, uh, boot camp. This was issued to me during boot camp. Uh, one of the, uh, things that I realize now is that, uh, we, back then, wrote our full Social Security [Insurance] number in, uh—in our, some of our gear. Uh, so I still have [<em>laughs</em>] my full Social Security number, uh, written in here. But, uh, it definitely has all of the stains from, uh, many years of—of wear.</p>
<p>Um, I was also issued, uh, “birth control glasses.”<a title="">[1]</a> So I still have my “birth control glasses,” that, uh—and you could not wear contacts. You had to wear these “birth control glasses” during boot camp, and after, um, boot camp, during Apprenticeship Training School, then I could, uh, wear my contacts. But, uh, these were lovely [<em>laughs</em>], But hey. Everybody that needed glasses had them. Uh, we all, for the most part, looked the same.</p>
<p>This is, uh, still my, uh, uh, tie that was issued in boot camp. I still have, uh, my initials, um, engraved—or, uh, inked on there. That was another one of the things that as soon as you were issued your gear, you all, uh, went in a line and, uh, with the stencil, and then, uh, stenciled all your gear. So, uh, this was the first time that I was issued.</p>
<p>And, um, this was, uh, the picture of my mom and dad at, uh, graduation. And this was just a picture that they took of me in, uh, front of the sign. And then this was just my, uh, first, uh, photograph.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Did you want to share anything else of the memor—memorabilia you brought?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, later on, uh, when, I got to my first duty station, and finally decided what I wanted to be in the Navy, that is when I decided to, uh, uh, be a Photographer’s Mate. And, uh—so I went and, um, during that time, the Photographer’s Mate rating was open, meaning that they needed people to be photographers in the Navy, so I was like, “I can take pictures.” So I decided to [<em>laughs</em>] —to go that route.</p>
<p>And, um, this is my, um, rating badge. Uh, that is, uh, no longer, uh, used in the Navy. This, uh, was, uh, the Photographer’s Mate rating badge, it’s an IFKA[?]. And the wings represent, uh, that we were—that it was the air-dealt rating. So um, now the Navy has combined three ratings into one. So, uh. Now there are no more Photographer’s Mates. They have a new rating.<a title="">[2]</a></p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So tell me a bit more about your experience as a Photographer’s Mate.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Again, that was, uh, very, um, thrilling, and, a lot of fun. You were up front, uh, of everything, because you had to get the picture. And, um, you also got to tell, uh, some of the officers, uh, what to do, where to stand, and, uh, you know, what to do. So that was always fun [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, um, there was always some, some—some, uh, great opportunities.</p>
<p>I, uh, had to take pictures of, um, a wheels-up landing. I was stationed in, uh, Corpus Christi, Texas. And, um, a [Beechcraft] T-34 [Mentor] was coming in for a landing, and the wheels would not come down. The landing gear would not come down. So, um, we—me and another Photographer Mate went out to shoot, um, pictures of this wheels-up landing to document it. And I was shooting the stills, and he was shooting the video. But, uh, at first, I was nervous and—camera was shaking while I was trying to take the pictures [<em>laughs</em>] but, uh, you know, we had the fire trucks there, and they just came right in on the belly of the plane—skid right in—and, uh, they were fine. Thank goodness.</p>
<p>But, um, uh, I also went to take pictures of, uh, Naval Station Ingleside[, Texas], which is no longer there already [<em>laughs</em>]. The Navy’s already sold it back to Corpus Christi. But, uh, uh, we took the groundpreak[sic]—groundbreaking pictures of, um, Naval Station Ingleside.</p>
<p>And, uh, so it’s just, um—it was always cool to be a part of history—document history. Um, uh, document, uh, happy occasions, lots of, uh, changes of command ceremonies, lots of promotion ceremonies, retirement ceremonies.</p>
<p>Um, and uh, document some not-so-good things. You also were on duty, um, and when it was your duty day, and you got called, I had, um, three different suicide attempts. So you had to go and document, um, the scene and what had happened. And, uh, one guy had tried to slit his wrist, so you’re documenting all the blood and all that. And, uh, um, another person had jumped out a second story window. Um, so you have to go, you know, just document. And, uh, so, you never knew what was going to happen. What you were going to be called to do. So it was—it was exciting.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Do you recall the day that your active service ended?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, well, I was on active duty for four years. And, um, as I said, I was stationed in Corpus Christi, Texas, and that was my first duty station. And from there, uh, I had met my future husband, so I decided—we got engaged, and I decided to, um, get out of the Navy, uh, so we could get married.</p>
<p>And, uh, from there, I stayed in the Reserves. So, um, the remaining of my time, I, uh, did the, you know, uh, weekend-a-month, two weeks a year Reserve drill. Uh, still as a Photographer’s Mate. And, uh, that worked out well, because I was able to do my Reserve duty anywhere that, uh, he was stationed, because he was still active duty Navy.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So when you were not doing your Reserve duties, what were you doing otherwise?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Well, I was very lucky to be able to, uh—once we had our first child, to stay at home. And, uh, so, uh, the majority of my time was as a stay-at-home mother. Uh, we ended up, uh, with three children, so [<em>laughs</em>], uh—and fairly close together, so that…</p>
<p>[<em>vacuum cleaner</em> <em>turns on</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Kept me busy. But, um, uh, we, uh—I also would do, uh, other different things, uh, besides my Reserve time, to, uh, just stay active as far as, uh, either within their school, being a substitute teacher, going and helping out and volunteering. Um, uh, doing, uh—did the realtor for a couple of years, did pampered chef for a couple of years. So anything that I did, I made sure that my schedule, I could still be home.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Hm, um, [<em>sighs</em>] I think I had, um, a lot of good values, um, already instilled in me from my parents, uh, that the Navy and the military, um, uh, you know, uh, possesses, and that’s, uh, good character, uh, teamwork. There’s the honor, courage, and commitment. Um, uh, I always felt that, uh—I said, “If they were your shipmate, uh, and you were in trouble, they would be there to help.” um, so just—just a little bit more of, of continuing of what my parents had already told me.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What was the most valuable lesson that you learned, um, in your time in the Navy?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Hm, um, as I said, just be a—be a team player. It’s—it’s not about you. It’s getting the job done, keeping everybody safe, um, keeping the country safe, um, being a team player.</p>
<p>[<em>vacuum cleaner</em> <em>turns off</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>How has NTC Orlando base or the Central Florida region changed since the time you originally spent here?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Oh, goodness. A lot. Uh, when we—my family and my husband—me and my husband and—and our three kids—um, moved back to Orlando, because, uh, he was being stationed here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training System Division], um, I was like, you know, [<em>laughs</em>] “Let’s go see where, uh, NTC Orlando was.” Where was I? Where did I go to boot camp? Uh, I knew that the base had been closed, but—I don’t know. I guess I was expecting to see something, um, and there was really nothing. Nothing there to show that the Navy had been here, as far as a, um, boot camp. And like, you know—like we’ve talked about, with the, um—the Grinder, the—the big replica of the, you know, the <em>Blue Jacket</em> ship, uh, um, there was nothing. Uh, the chapel [<em>laughs</em>]—and nothing and so I was very surprised.</p>
<p>And, uh, I said, I was, um, very pleased to, uh, find a group who was trying to do something about that. And, um, so since that time, I have, uh—me and my husband have volunteered to be on the, uh, committee, to get, uh, something to show where NTC/RTC [Recruit Training Center] was. um, so that people can not only come to take their kids to Disney World or SeaWorld or, um, Universal Studios [Orlando], uh, but if they went to boot camp, they can bring them to an area, uh, that they can show their kids where they were during that time frame. I, um—when I retired, the Lone Sailor [Memorial Project] statue was the, um, one thing that I wanted as a retirement gift, and so I’m very proud.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>So when they come back to visit the memorial, what do you think Naval personnel would like to see?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, I think they would like to see, uh, um, pictures of, uh, the way—to—to show the way it used to be—what was really there. Because, you know, now it’s a Baldwin Park community. um, so it’s just really, I feel, interesting to see, um, old pictures of—of when we were there, Um, maybe a little write up of the history, um, and, um, of course, not only a—a male Lone Sailor, but a, hopefully, one day, we get a female Sailor statue there also, to represent, um, the men and women who went to boot camp there.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>What do you think is the lasting legacy of the NTC Orlando or the Navy to the Central Florida region?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Uh, just that it—it, uh—it’s a lot of good people. It, uh, helped a lot of people grow up, and become, uh, great, um, adults—giving adults—back to their communities and country, um, sacrificing what you have to have sacrifice for the good of all.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Is there anything else that you would like to share about your Navy experience?</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Um, it was definitely, uh, a good, good experience. Lots of, uh, memories. Lots of opportunities. Lots of opportunities to travel to different places, um, meet different people, uh, lots of—build lots of lasting friendships, um, see and do many different things.</p>
<p>Uh, during one of my two weeks of active duty, I was in New York City for Fleet Week, and during that time was when they, um, brought out the last beam for, uh, the World Trade Center. and I was manning the rails as they brought out the last beam, and I was all the way down—the bottom of World Trade Center—and, uh, at Ground Zero. And, uh, to just be down there and look up—amazing.</p>
<p><strong>Wiggins<br /></strong>Well, I want to thank you very much for your time and for giving this interview, and for all of the wonderful experiences that you have shared with me.</p>
<p><strong>Reuter<br /></strong>Thank you.</p>
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<p><a title="">[1]</a> G.I. glasses.</p>
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<p><a title="">[2]</a> Mass Communications Specialist.</p>
</div>
</div>
Abingdon, Virginia
active duty
Airman Apprenticeship Training School
Baldwin Park
basic training
Beechcraft T-34 Mentor
birth control glasses
boot camps
chapels
chow halls
church
churches
cold war
Community Veterans History Project
Connie Reuter
Corpus Christi, Texas
CVHP
Delayed Entry Program
DEP
drill teams
education
educators
enlistment
eyeglasses
females
firearms
Fleet Week
G.I. glasses
gas chambers
gig lines
glasses
graduations
Ground Zero
guns
Hines
inactive duty
Ingelside, Texas
instructors
Leanne Wiggins
Liberty Call
Lone Sailor Memorial Project
LSMP
Martha Reuter
memorials
MEP
Merritt
military education
Military Entrance Processing
military training
NAS Corpus Christi
Naval Air Station Corpus Christi
Naval Air Station Ingelside
Naval Air Warfare Center Training System Division
Naval Training Center Orlando
Navy Buddy Enlistment Program
NAWCTSD
New York City, New York
NS Ingelside
NTC Orlando
orlando
peanut butter
Petty Officer, Second Class
photographer's mates
photographers
photography
Recruit Training Center
Recruit Training Center Orlando
recruits
RTC Orlando
sailors
ships
suicides
T-34
teachers
The Grinder
training
U.S. Naval Reserve
U.S. Navy
USN
USNR
USS Blue Jacket
veterans
weather
woman
women
World Trade Center
WTC
-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9d752cd3aa575d9fec8b61845098d41a.pdf
8029e7962c673e092163f97adfd6ad89
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection
Description
As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress.
Contributor
<a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida
Alternative Title
CVHP Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
United States. Army
Army
United States. Navy
Navy
United States. Air Force
Air Force
United States. Marine Corps
Marine Corps
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Jacksonville, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Honolulu, Hawaii
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Great Lakes, Illinois
Long Island, New York
Newport, Rhode Island
Norfolk, Virginia
Germany
Qaasuitsup, Greenland
Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland
Azores Islands, Portugal
Mediterranean Sea
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
Has Part
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
Young, Mary Hughes
Interviewee
Levine, Lawrence "Larry" Paul
Location
University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida
Original Format
1 audio/video recording
Duration
41 minutes and 6 seconds
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Oral History of Lawrence Paul Levine
Alternative Title
Oral History, Levine
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Air Force
Description
An oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine (b. 1947), who enlisted in the U.S. Air Force (USAF) in August of 1966, just after being drafted into the U.S. Army. Levine was born in Rochester, New York, on June 8, 1947. He served in Europe during the Vietnam War, until he was discharged on August 31, 1970. Levine received a Good Conduct Medal for his service.<br /><br />This oral history interview was conducted by Mary Hughes Young on April 1, 2014. Interview topics include Levine's background, his enlistment in the Air Force and drafting into the U.S. Army, basic and advanced training, being stations in Europe, getting married voerseas, returning to the U.S. after being discharged, and his life as a civilian afterward.
Table Of Contents
0:00:00 Introduction<br />0:00:32 Background<br />0:02:38 Draft and enlistment<br />0:06:42 Basic training at Lackland Air Force Base<br />0:10:06 Sharpshooting and career assignment<br />0:13:52 Advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base<br />0:21:16 Assignment in Europe<br />0:26:55 Relationships with other servicemen and assignments<br />0:30:15 Getting married overseas<br />0:31:09 Rank and discharge<br />0:33:30 Life after service<br />0:36:28 Treatment from civilians<br />0:37:29 How service affected civilian life<br />0:39:15 Closing remarks
Abstract
Oral history interview of Lawrence Paul Levine. Interview conducted by Mary Hughes Young at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida.
Type
Moving Image
Source
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/277/rec/1" target="_blank">Item DP0014898</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Orlando, Florida.
Requires
<a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>
<a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>
<a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Has Format
Digital transcript of original 41-minute and 6-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>. Interviewed by Mary Hughes Young. April 1, 2014.
Conforms To
Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress.
Coverage
Rochester, New York
Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island
U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, Providence, Rhode Island
Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas
Amarillo Air Force Base, Amarillo, Texas
McGuire Air Force Base, Burlington County, New Jersey
Rhein-Main Air Base, Germany
Shaw Air Force Base, Sumter, South Carolina
Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, New York
Creator
Levine, Larry
Young, Mary Hughes
Publisher
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Date Created
2014-04-01
Date Copyrighted
2014-04-01
Format
video/mp4
application/pdf
Extent
353 MB
224 MB
Medium
41-minute and 6-second audio/video recording
28-page digital transcript
Language
eng
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Mary Hughes Young and Larry Levine and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>.
Rights Holder
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
Accrual Method
Item Creation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>
External Reference
Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank"><em>America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</em></a>. New York: Wiley, 1979.
Transcript
<p><strong>Unidentified<br /></strong>Recording.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Today [<em>clears throat</em>] is April the 1<sup>st</sup>[, 2014]. I am Mary Hughes Young, and I am interviewing Lawrence Paul Levine.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Who served in the U.S. Air Force [<em>sniffs</em>]. Um, This is part of the University of Central Floride—Florida’s Community Veterans History Project, and we’re recording this interview at University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Okay. Larry, tell me first about when and where you were born.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was born in Rochester, New York, in 1947.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did you live there for all of your educational years?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, primarily, yes. Yes. I, uh, graduated college in Rochester also, after the—after my service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, do you have brothers or sisters?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. I have two brothers.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Two. So there were three of…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. There were three of us in the family.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where were you in the birth order?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, I’m the oldest.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>The oldest? Okay. What did your parents do for a living?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, my father had a number of different jobs. Uh, He was a bread salesman for Thomas’ English Muffins for a while, and then worked for a supermarket chain as one of their managers of one of their stores. Um, my mother was pretty much of a stay-at home mom. Um, She became very si—very sick, um, at a very young age and—and passed away at a very young age also. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And how old were you when she passed away?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was, uh, 20.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>20? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>21.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Were any of your family members or extended members in the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. My father—my father was. He was in World War II. He, uh, was an in-flight radio operator in—at that time, was the Army Air Corps, uh, which then became the Air Force. Uh, in-flight radio operator and served over in India, going back from Karachi to Calcutta, India.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, tell me about your education before you went into the military.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I, um, graduated high school in 1964. Uh, was accepted to Brown University, um, in Providence, Rhode Island. [<em>clears throat</em>] Finished one year there, and then my mother became very ill, and I had to come back home, which led me into the next phase of my life of being in the—in the military. Um, so that was prior to me going into the service.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, And why did you decide to go into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, uh, because I came back home and had to help the family out. Uh, during that time, it was the Vietnam War, obviously—back in the—in the [19]60s. Um, in all honestly, I was ultimately drafted.</p>
<p>Now, there was a[sic] interesting—very interesting story that leads up to that. Um, When I came back home, I went to work for the U.S. Customs Service. My background is primarily: I was going to school in business and accounting, and I was fortunate enough to get a job [<em>clears throat</em>] with the U.S. Bureau of Customs [and Border Protection] in Rochester. Uh, went to work for them full-time. Did a number of j—jobs for them, primarily in the accounting area, and also, uh, did a few clearances of planes and—and ships and that system, where I need to, in that particular area. But I worked in the, um, government, uh—in the state office building—actually, it was a Federal building. It wasn’t even a state. It was a Federal building, because it was U.S. Customs.</p>
<p>And, uh, the draft board was right downstairs from my offices. And I became very friendly with a number of the different people who worked in the draft board, and informed them of my situation: that, uh, I was eligible for the draft, because I wasn’t going to school full-time. I was going to school part-time. Uh, they had informed me at that particular time that, “No—no worries. No problems.” That, uh, I would be safe, because I knew everybody there. And low- and behold, before I knew it, my letter from Uncle Sam came and said I was drafted.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I went back to the [<em>laughs</em>]—to the, uh, draft board and said, “What happened here?” And their excuse was, “Oh, we’re sorry. It got by us,” and everything like that. So, um, in ess—in essence, I was drafted, but before I was drafted, I enlisted in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, and was this before the lottery was in effect?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. The lottery was in effect, if I’m not mistaken. Um, the—there was a lottery, and I had a pretty, pretty low lottery number.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Meaning that I was very eligible for the draft. Uh, I wasn’t going to Canada. I wasn’t going any place, but I was informed again by the draft board that I’d be safe. And, uh, low and behold, I wasn’t.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Because of the work you were doing?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. It’s just that—because I knew people at the draft board, who said if they saw my name come up, they would pull it [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Okay. Well, how did you feel about being drafted then? Um, was it—was it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A big shock?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Concerned.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Shock. Uh, the first thing, obviously, that came to my mind, was: <em>Well, if you’re drafted, then you’re going into the Army. And if you go in the Army, you are going to carry a gun. If you carry a gun, you’re going to go to Vietnam.</em> So, uh, when that—when that happened, obviously, the family was very concerned about it. And, uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so—so…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They didn’t want me to go. So I figured it would be best if I went into the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right. And so you signed up for the Air Force…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right after you were drafted?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And So your family was feeling</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Concerned about the situation too?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They were more concerned, obviously, during that whole period of time, but not as concerned if I allowed myself to be drafted in the Army.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Into the Army. Okay. How about your, uh peers? You friends or girlfriend? How did they feel about you going into the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, my friends were kind of like, <em>Better you than me</em>, at that particular time. Uh, I’m sure most people realized that was not the greatest time in our history for the military. Most people were looked down on in going into the military. Uh, I had some tough experiences myself with that particular situation. Uh, my girlfriend, at the time, was pretty much—said, “If you are going into the military, then I’m not waiting around for you, so,” [<em>laughs</em>] “I’m—I’m gone.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>As if you had a choice, right? [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. As if I had a choice. Right. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, well, now you’re in the Air Force.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where did you do your basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. I was there in August of 1966.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, uh, what were your expectations of— being in the, uh—in basic training? Did you—did you have any idea of what was going—what it was going to be like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. I had an idea, but I didn’t—I didn’t think it would be as bad as it really was. Uh, I was in good shape at the time, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Weighed a lot less than I do now. And, um, expected it to be a little different, uh, physically and mentally. Uh, The aspects of basic training are obviously to get you in a situation to where you are able to accept orders, and you’re able to—be able to do things when they’re—when you’re told to do them. And, uh, I accepted that without any problem. It’s just—there’s a little more physical on my body than I had anticipated.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. The marching…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was a typical day like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>The typical day is we get up at like five in the morning—4:30-5 o’clock in the morning, and we’d have to make our bunks and get everything straightened away for the day. We go to me—the mess hall, where we had breakfast. And that was one of the things that surprised me, because we just didn’t take our time in—in being able to eat breakfast. We were given a certain amount of time to get in line, eat our breakfast, and get ready to go outside. It was a lot shorter than I had anticipated. So, uh, my eating habits had to change very quickly, because of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Hm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, after that, we would do either calisthenics or marching. Um, go to the gun range, which kind of surprised me, because I didn’t think I would be shooting a gun. Uh, had qualified in the—in the gun range.</p>
<p>And had different classes on just general military, um—you know, the way of life of a—of a person in the military. Uh, Things—how to handle yourself, how to be able to, uh, you know, again, take orders, and anything that had to do with the military. Military history, all of that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And this—how long was your basic training? How many weeks?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, wow. You see, I—that—I, uh—I want to say eight weeks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Eight weeks? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it might be a little bit longer than that. I mean, that’s 40—what? 40—safe[sic] —48 years ago. And [<em>laughs</em>]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[inaudible]. I really didn’t wanna do any…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not for everybody[?].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Research on that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You know there’s an end to it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It’s not gonna be forever.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s absolutely correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Um, what were your instructors like?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] I thought the meanest people in the world, okay? They didn’t take any—they didn’t take anything from anybody.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, which is what they were supposed to do. You were supposed to be there to listen to them. Them—they were, um, NCOs [non-commissioned officers], which is, uh, the equivalents of sergeants, okay? They were not officers, although the heads—some different, um, sections were—were officers—captains and—and, uh, lieutenants and that. But, um, you know…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I realized after a while, that they were doing their job, and that if they were soft on us, and if we became—a situation, which we got involved in, we couldn’t be soft either. So the, um—they did their job, and I think they did it—looking back on it, I think they did a good job on ‘em.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, let’s back up a minute.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Sure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You said you didn’t think you’d have to shoot a gun</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>But you did.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And I think I noticed on your paper that you were, uh, a sharpshooter.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. I surprised myself, to be honest with you.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Had you ever shot a gun before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You adapted to that well.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I adapted to it. Yeah. Well…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Which again, kind of concerned me. In effect, if I’m a sharpshooter, they might do something with me, other than what I wanted to do [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you receive, uh, any advanced, specialized training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not at that time. No. When we, uh—Just To—to go back a little bit, uh, historically, what led up to this: when I enlisted in the—in the Air Force—and I— don’t mean to take away what you’re—you—the questions you are asking—uh, I had to take a battery of tests…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>To determine where I was best fit for the Air Force. Uh, and, at that time, I was—I—I actually scored highest in the administrative area. It was like electronics, administrative, mechanical, uh—those I think—and—and just basic—basic air. So I scored highest in administrative, which I assumed that I would, because that was pretty much my background and what I wanted to do.</p>
<p>However, at the time that I went in, and—there were no openings in the administrative field. So I said, “Well, if you don’t have anything in the administrative area, send me home. I don’t—I don’t need to come then.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They said, “No. that doesn’t work that way, okay? Now, you’re going to be in the electronics field.” I said, “Okay. Electronics.” “Yeah. You know, putting wires together and all this kind of stuff. Wherever you’re needed in electronics.” You know, that’s a wide area, obviously. I said, “Okay.” and they gave me another battery of tests, and one of the tests was called the Ishihara [Color] Test—and I’m not sure if you’re fa—familiar with that? That’s the one where they have the numbers that are embedded in the different colors, so that if you’re looking at it, it is to determine if you are colorblind or not.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, I really botched that up big time. I think I only got two numbers out of all of them that they showed me. I just couldn’t pick out the different numbers in the blocks of different colors. So they sat back and they said “Well, hm. If you can’t pick out the numbers, how are you going to put a red wire together with a green wire or with a blue wire, and make sure it’s running properly? So you can’t go into electronics.” So I said, “Good. Send me home.” They said, “No. it doesn’t work that way.”</p>
<p>I said, “Well, how about administrative again?” “No. we still don’t have any openings.” “Okay. So now what?” “Well, we’re going to give you your choice of what you want to do, Okay? This is the career that you’re going to have in the Air Force.” One: You can become a cook, okay? Number two: you can become a parachute rigger, okay? Putting together the parachutes for the pilots and [inaudible]. Three: you can be an air policeman, because you did qualify that [inaudible]. Or four: you can be an airframe repair specialist.</p>
<p>So I sat back and I thought, <em>Well, I could kill everybody with my cooking</em>, because I couldn’t cook very well, okay? <em>If I became a parachute rigger, god forbid if a parachute didn’t open when the pilot jumped out of the plane or whatever[?], I’d probably kill somebody that way. </em>Air police? I says[sic], <em>Nah. I’m not big enough to be a good air </em>policeman, you know? I could direct traffic, but that would probably be all that I could do. So that left me with airframe repair, okay? So that’s where we’re back—that’s where—that’s a little bit about the background on my next point after basic training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So in basic training, you get your assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you were assigned to be an air…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Airframe Repair.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe Repair? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>That’s exactly correct.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So that’s working on the outside of the airplane.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, It could be the inside too.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. Anything to do with the frame of an airplane?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay, but, um—so where were you assigned after basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was assigned after basic training to advanced training at Amarillo Air Force Base—Texas also. I really didn’t leave Texas for my basic training and my advance training. And this was strictly was airframe repair now.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay? This was how—to teach me how to be, uh, an airframe repairman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I have two left hands, so you can imagine</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>What it was like to be in Airframe Repair School [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And—so how long where you in</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Airframe training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Six months, actually.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Six months? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Almost six months. It was—yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And What was your impression of this a—assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I thought it would be just going to school, But unfortunately, it wasn’t. It was an extension of the basic training, only, to be honest with you, worse. First of all, the weather in Amarillo, Texas, was horrible. I was there during the wintertime, and it was cold and freezing, and we were doing calisthenics outside and we were running, and we were marching. And I said, <em>This isn’t supposed to be like this.</em> <em>This is like I’m supposed to learn how to work on airplanes, not</em> [<em>laughs</em>]—<em>not</em>—I said, “This was already done in basic training. Why do I—why do I gotta do that again?” “No, no, no.” And actually, they—they called them “TIs”—technical instructors—were worse in—in Airframe Repair School than they were in basic training. They were harder on us in—in, uh—in school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How many hours would you actually be in—in training for repairs?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>For repairs? It was about six to eight hours a day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So a long day?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was just on the repair. Just on airframe repairs. That wasn’t—again, the calisthenics or the marching and everything else. So it was a full day.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And did it start early…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Like in basic training?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not as early, but pretty close.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Pretty close? Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did your duties entail as an airframe worker?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, there’s another story that goes along with that, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Tell it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh,Well, in—in basic airframe repair, you do anything from sheet metal work to fiber glassing to, umm anything that has to do, again, with—with the frame. Ma—uh, making sure that the—that the actual plane itself is in good shape to fly, okay? From a sheet metal standpoint, and not the electronics standpoint. Obviously, that’s in another area.</p>
<p>But, uh—this—this, again, is a—is another story. I had two left hands, as—as I had mentioned. Uh, I couldn’t hit a hammer—nail with a hammer great, and they’re putting me on working on airplanes. Well, each part of the course was a different thing you did with an—with the airframe. Riveting was one area, sheet met—cutting out certain, uh, pieces on the plane was another area.</p>
<p>Uh, one of the areas that they had, they called them “blocks.” each one was a separate block, and what you did was you learned as part—as in the individual blocks was, uh, fiber glassing, okay? And how to fiberglass, how to use fiberglass, and how to be able to mold it on a plane were necessary things like that. I wish you could’ve seen me doing the fiberglass work. You’d—it’d—it’s a real comedy. It was a real comedy, a real joke.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was the, uh, difficulty in—in doing that? I don’t—I haven’t worked with fiberglass.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it’s just mixing—mixing the ras—the resin together…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So it’s the right consistency. Being able to lay out the sheets of fiberglass on there, and smooth it over, sand it down. All of these different areas are part of the—are part of the fiberglass work, okay?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So that—that—that’s—that was part of it. That was one of the blocks.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Alright. And there were other things, like riveting classes?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong> How to use a rivet gun properly. Um, All different types—all different of things on—on, Again, using sheet metal, and using—and repairing aircraft.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What did you like best about that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Nothing [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Nothing? Okay. So you kind of felt like you were a...</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Round peg…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>In a square hole?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly. I was not in the proper location.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And unfortunately, the Air Force didn’t realize at the time, okay? They put me through it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Were your instructors, um, understanding? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Patient? Or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>They pretty—they were pretty understanding, with the exception of the one from the fiberglass area, because, uh, I ultimately did not pass the test to move on to the next phase of the Airframe Repair School. So I actually had to take a complete week all over—or, em, two weeks, I believe, or three weeks. I had to take that all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>All the fiberglass work?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The fiberglass portion. And the other ones I had passed…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But the fiberglass portion, I had a very difficult time with, and, uh, I had to take that part of the program all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And then you passed it?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So now are you ready for the next, uh—for your next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, again, the reason—now, I was part of a group of students. My class, I think, was like 12 or 14 students in my class. Because I had failed the test, they moved on to the next phase, I had to wait until the next class came along to pick up with them, and to begin the fiberglass portion all over again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Which I did. Uh, I think I had to wait a week before the next class came to the point that they were going to do the fiberglass…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, okay. I see.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Block. So I waved goodbye to all of my fellow students. They had gone—they had gone on to the next phase, and started it, and started the next group. Which a second time I did pass, okay? So I finished and graduated tech school, at that point.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So you only had to wait behind two weeks, and then do you catch up with your class again?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>No?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Then I’m involved with this next…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Your [inaudible]?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>New class. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Did you go through all the training you did before?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. No. I just picked it up from the fiberglass portion. I’m not sure if it was the third block or the second block. I really don’t remember.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But then I just proceeded on with that class. Now, as they had finished block one and block two…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And they went into fiber glassing. I had finished one and two, and started in with them as part of my new class, and we continued on together.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I had to meet all new students, and—and get involved with the new class.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Can you describe an event that wasn’t typical in this particular time of your training? You’re in the six months training now. Is there anything that happened that wasn’t typical of an everyday experience or—that you can think of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Not really. No. It was just pretty much—cou—can’t wait to get out and get an assignment type of situation. And, um, I—Like I said, I did the very best I can. I knew I had no choice, and, uh, I was able to pass and continue on. But it was pretty much the same routine. The only difference that we had was that we had, uh, leave on the weekends, and we were able to go into Amarillo, which There’s not much there. So we did have leave—we did have leave time then. It wasn’t like a seven days a week type of training.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.So not really anything memoral—memorable during this time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. So at six—when you finished that six-month training…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What happened then?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>‘Nother interesting point. I guess—I guess I had more interesting points than I thought I did. When I, um, came out of my next—with my new class, my previous class had gone on. And of course. they graduated from the technical school before I did. They all got their orders, and the entire class got orders for Vietnam, okay? So if I was in that class, I would have ended up going to Vietnam, at the time. My situation was, when I graduated and I saw my orders posted, I got sent to Europe [<em>laughs</em>]. So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s interesting</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It is. It was lu—very lucky. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>At that point, you weren’t too [inaudible] —too very sorry that you weren’t very adept to…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Not really. But of course, you know, that can change—that can change at any time also. But, uh, quite a relief on my family’s part, to say the least.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, It—it was—it was very, [<em>laughs</em>] very interesting time, believe me. So I was sent to Europe, uh, in what they called a “TDY outfit,” which was temporary duty assignments. Now, I was assigned to work on a [McDonnell Douglas] F-4 [Phantom II] aircraft. they called it the “phantom jet.” I worked on [McDonnell] F-101s [Voodoo], [Republic F-]105s [Thunderchief], uh, various different types of programs.</p>
<p>My basic job was to work on the outboard tanks and pylons. The pylons were, uh, the apparatus that held the bomb racks on. So we were working on putting on bomb racks on the different types of aircraft, and they would then go over to Vietnam.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Now…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>So you were specialized in your duties?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Yes. We were—we became specialized in our duties. Now, the government, at the time—again, we were set up as a temporary duty assignment. We had—had to go from base to base to work on these different aircraft. The government thought that it would be cheaper for us to travel in groups and work on these tanks and pylons, because the point of the—with these jets are: they had the jettison their outboard tanks and their pylon or bomb racks when they took off after their bombing runs. Because if they kept those on, it would add weight to the plane itself, in which case, they couldn’t get away—get away as quick, uh, without them. So they were continuously jettisoning these, and when they would come back to—to Europe, we’d have to refit them with new ones, and make—and—and get them all set up for them to go out again. Even though most of them were based right in Vietnam or Thailand and that[?], um, they still came for—for, uh, overall maintenance back to the, uh—back to Europe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Where in Europe were you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. I was in, uh, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Libya, England, Spain, and my home base was in Germany, okay? That’s where we worked out of. We worked out of Rhein-Main [Air Base], Germany, in, uh, Frankfurt [am Main, Hesse, Germany], okay? So that’s where my main outfit was. It was Detachment 51.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And that’s[sic] the ones you graduated with?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, some—Most of them—most of them did go on to that, but I think there were about six or seven that went to different, uh— areas, okay?</p>
<p>Uh, that’s another [<em>laughs</em>]—again, that’s another interesting point. Uh, When I flew over from, uh, New Jersey—McGuire Air Force Base. I left out of McGuire Air Force Base. It’s—it’s a funny story. There were like three planes lined up taking all of us over to Europe. There were two commercial airliners, and then there was what they called a “C-141 Galaxy.” And I said, “Oh, I’m going to go over to Europe in a nice, uh, airliner,” and I ended up going over on a military aircraft, sitting in the seats on the sides [<em>laughs</em>]. So it was kind of a bumpy ride over there.</p>
<p>But when I landed, my orders were to catch up with my unit in what they called—in a place called Chaumont[, Haute-Marne], France, okay? So I landed at Rhein-Main Air Force Base, Germany, caught a shuttle, uh—a military shuttle. Uh, it wasn’t a plane. It was a bus, alright? Down to Chaumont, France. Caught up with my, eh—with my group down there, okay? With my detachment down there. And I noticed as I went into—to the offices to report in, that they’re packing up everything. And I went and signed in, and I said to the desk sergeant or whatever his name was, “What—what’s going on,” okay? “I was told to report here.” They said, “Well, we’re leaving.” I said, “Why are you leaving?” Well, at that time, France was not in the best, you know, of friends with the—with the United States. And, uh, this is part of the NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] Pact, and we were—we were leaving out of France. And I said, “Oh,” I said, “So we’re not going to stay in France?” “No.” “Well, where are we going?” He said, “Rhein-Main Air Force Base in Germany.” I said, “Wait a minute. I just came from there.” [<em>laughs</em>] I said, “I just took a bus and came from Rhein-Main.”</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Going to your official[?] [inaudible].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>“Why didn’t anybody tell—why didn’t anybody tell me that I was going to go back to—I would never have left I would have waited for ya there.” Well, as it turned out, we went—we went back to Rhein-Main, and, um, set up shop there, and, uh, proceeded to travel all over Europe, and—and working on these tanks and pylons and—and getting them set, so that they—we can put ‘em on the planes, and they can take off.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you have a schedule for where you would be and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. We had orders every—every time. Uh…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how did that work? Or—or did you not know ahead of time?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Um, when we finished one assignment, we’d come back for a while, and, uh, work around…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Always back to Germany?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Back to Germany. Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And then get our—get our next assignment when we were told to go out…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Again.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>What was your relationship with the oth—other service personnel that you worked directly with on the pylons?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, we, uh—we had a good relationship. I mean, we were a unit. We pretty much hung around together. Uh, when we had time, we played softball, uh, on—in a league on base. And again, I was a lot, a lot thinner [<em>laughs</em>] back then. And, uh, we had—we had a good time. I mean, it was pretty much a regular eight-hour day, okay? Uh, if—whether or not it was at the—at the base that we were at, or at our home base in Germany.</p>
<p>There was—every once in a while, we had assignments. Outside of our unit, was the, uh, uh Boeing 707—I think it was, um, at the time. It was the General of the Air Force’s plane, uh, of Europe</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Uh, [inaudible]. It was the General’s plane—his personal plane—was out there. Actually, come to think of it now, it was the [Boeing] KC-135 [Stratotanker] —was—which was an inflight re-fueler, where those, you know—the planes come up to it, and they drop the boom in that. Well, this was a converted KC-135 for the General. Really nice, nice plane. And we had work on that every once in a while, changing some things, and, you know, making sure that everything was okay.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were, uh, at base, or on these assignments, were you always busy? Or were there times that you didn’t—were waiting for the next assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, No. We were busy most of the time. We were busy most of the time. I mean, once again, it was pretty much and eight-hour day, and when we were done, we had—we were free to do whatever we wanted. It was just, uh, like a normal job, except we worked [inaudible]…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. But there wasn’t a lot of just sit around and wait?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No, no, no, no.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. How did you stay in touch with your family and friends back home?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, at that time, I was—there—there was no such thing as Skype, or, uh, e-mail, and things like that. So it was pretty much by letter. Just by regular letter. Sna—snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Snail mail.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, do you believe you were well-trained for your assignment?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>As best as they could, considering what they had to deal with [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did you always have the equipment and the supplies that you needed…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>To do your job?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That—that we had no trouble—we had no trouble with.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And you mentioned you played softball.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>How else did you entertain yourself when you weren’t on duty?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mm. Well, I’d say drink [<em>laughs</em>]. Um, Just going to different, uh—go to the USO [United Service Organization] over there, and saw stag shows, and had one—one or two beers—four or five.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was there a USO show that was particularly memorable?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. The Platters. The original Platters were there. And, um, I—I liked them from the beginning, and I was very fortunate to meet ‘em, and, uh, listen—they put on a great show.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.Was that in Germany? Or in one of your other assignments?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. That was in Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>It was in Germany [<em>sniffs</em>]. But When I—I was in Spain, uh, over one of the New Year’s [Eve]. I was in, uh, Madrid, Spain, and got and to see a flamenco show there. A real, real flamenco show, which was pretty good.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you take advantage of any, uh, sightseeing, or…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Oh, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Or tours…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you were there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. That would be entertaining [inaudible]</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, um, I got married while—while I was overseas.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And my wife was in the States. She was a—she was an American. She was German—born German, but, um, I married—I got married. And she was able to come over to Europe and get a job in Germany, while I was gone. Fortunately enough, she, um, uh spoke German. So she was able to get around the economy very nicely while I was gone, because I was gone most of the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>But it was nice to have her over there. And when—when I was back there, we were able to travel around.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, nice.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>We were able to go to Holland,<a title="">[1]</a> and, uh, visit a lot of Germany. Go around—go around Germany.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That’s a—that’s very, uh—very nice thing to have happened…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>While you’re</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Young, and, uh—and not a lot of money…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You cantravel around on…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, Uncle Sam’s dime.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, when were you—tell me about your ranking and how that—and how you…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, actually, I became a sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up a staff sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Uh, pardon me?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>You ended up as a staff sergeant. I saw on your…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah. It was a…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. You start off as a—tell me how that works.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, you just go in as an airman.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And then, at that time, it was, um, second class, first class, and sergeant.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Actually, I think I mis—misstated. Um, I was three stripes, which was considered a sergeant at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. Four stripes is a staff sergeant, so…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I made three. If I had reenlisted, I probably would have gotten a fourth stripe.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Alright. So you ended up as a sergeant?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And, um, when were you discharged from the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>August of 1970. When I rotated back from the States, I, uh, was stationed in, uh, Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter, South Carolina, which was about 7-8 months. So I lived in South Carolina, outside of Columbia.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And how long were you there?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I think it was 7-8 months. Something like that.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Seven—okay. Um, how did you feel once you were out of the military?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Relieved. Um, Glad I did what I did. Uh, kind of—Kind of upset as to what was going on, while I was in the military, back home with the individual tour—“pacifists,” I guess you call them—or against the war in Vietnam. I mean, I was not all in favor of what was going on, but, uh, when I did come home on leave at one time, uh, it was not ver— it was not a very good situation. I mean, we were—for all intents and purposes, we were spat at, at the airports, when we walked through. Nobody said, “Thank you for your service.” And, uh, they just didn’t like it. They didn’t like anybody in the military, or anybody in uniform. So that—that kind of part was tough.</p>
<p>Um, Again, I was relieved. But on the other hand, I felt that all of my friends—I was the only one of all my friends back in Rochester. I was the only one to go into the military, and felt that I was four years behind them in education and—and, um—and just getting on with my life. So, you know, it—both sides. I felt good with serving, but on the other hand, I felt that I lost some time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Um, once you were out, what did you do?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>[<em>sniffs</em>] Another good, interesting situation. Uh, when I got out of the service, my wife became pregnant [<em>laughs</em>]. And, uh, it was probably from the week I got discharged [<em>laughs</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>She—she got pregnant. In which case, if she got pregnant while we were in the military, the government would have paid for it. If she had given birth while I was in, the military would have paid for it.</p>
<p>But I, uh—when I got out of the service, my main goal was to get back to school. I wanted to get my degree in accounting and—and go on from there. But a little s—s—little turn of events when your wife becomes pregnant. Going to day school is pretty difficult. So I took a job. um, and again, I got out in August, and, uh, school was going to start in September, but I was gonna take—go to night school, okay? And—and get a job during the day. But until that time started, I went to work at McDonald’s, uh, slinging hamburgers. See, eh, eh, my memory’s coming back. I was going to go to day school.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh huh.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>So I wasn’t going to enroll until September, but I needed some—to get some income coming in, uh, for my wife and that. So I went to work at McDonald’s slinging hamburgers, which was not a great experience. Because here’s an older gentleman, who’s, uh, slinging hamburgers with a bunch of teenagers, and looking at me, thinking, <em>Boy, he must be a real loser if he’s doing this</em>, not knowing the situation. But I got the job in telling ‘em that I was going to—I wanted to go to school training to become a manager at McDonald’s. This is how I got the job. And, uh, the owner of the place said, “Okay.” He said, “But you—but in order to do that, you have to learn all the different areas of—of McDonald’s.” French fries, working on the grill, the clean-up, the whole bit. . I said, “Okay.” Well, that lasted about a week—week and a half—and I just couldn’t handle it anymore. I would come home smelling terrible from all the fat that was in the French fries. So that lasted maybe a week—week and a half.</p>
<p>But we managed. Um, and I did start going to school, but things got to a point where I just needed to get money. So I went—I was going back to night school. I went to night school, and got a job. Uh, at that time, [<em>sniffs</em>] I was working, I believe, at one of the local manufacturing companies in their finance department. I was working in their cost accounting department. Even though I didn’t have a degree, they—they put me on as—in a lower level type of position. But it was bringing in income, and I—I was able to go to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And where was this, Larry?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Rochester Institute of Technology.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Oh, you were back in…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Back in New York<strong>.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I was back in Rochester. I went back to New York.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Were you—were there any G.I.<a title="">[2]</a> benefits</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>That you were able to take advantage of?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. Absolutely. I was on the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[3]</a> Helped me pay for my schooling. Yes. Definitely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. And so you’re working in the daytime and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And going to school at night.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, we talked about how you were treated…</p>
<p>[<em>background noise</em>]</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>When you came home, and that, um, there was, um, uh, disrespect…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Dor you as a soldier. Now…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Was that set across the board every time you came home on leave? Or, uh, did you notice that when you would go to New York? Or when you would go—when you came back to South Carolina? Was there a difference in the way the local people treated you?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Not really. No. Not that I can remember. It was just an area that they didn’t go out of their way to—to do anything. More like they were trying to ignore us, then, um—like we were the—the plague.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And just no—no respect. No respect for anyone. And that’s what makes me feel so good now is that you’re seeing these, uh, individuals in the military, and people are giving them respect and thanking them for their service. So that’s one of the areas where I—I felt cheated out of also—is not getting the respect and that, because it was four years of my life, and that’s a long time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It is a long time, especially at that age.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Right. Exactly.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Uh, did your military experience affect your civilian life in any way?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I became more appreciative of life. Um, More appreciative of the things that I—that I was able to get, uh, of—of my family at the time. Because being away from them most of the—now fortunately, like I said, my wife was able to come with—to come with me over to Europe, but, uh, I missed my brothers and my—and my father. My mother had passed away prior to that, so, uh—but, yeah. Uh, a lot of things, uh—a lot of things that I was more appreciative of, at the time.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Do you think that you were more serious in your education than you would have been as a 20…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Most definitely. Most definitely. That’s a very good point. I looked at my education totally different. Uh, more—I—I was more involved with history. Um, I—I didn’t feel at the time—you see, there was a lot—a lot difference in going to school and being, pretty much, made to go to school, or that—that was the norm. You—you went to high school. You finished high school. You went to college and then you went on from there.</p>
<p>And because of the interruption, I looked at it from a different stand point that, you know, this is an opportunity. This is a great opportunity, and, uh, the government is helping me with this opportunity, through the G.I. Bill. I’m going to take full advantage of it. So I took full courses. And if anybody knows about Rochester, New York, and going to school at night in Rochester, New York, in the middle of winter is not easy. Okay. It was cold. It was freezing. It was snowing. But, uh, I had a family to support, and I wanted to be able to get my education, so Luckily, I was able to complete it.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Okay. Looking back on it all, can you describe about how you feel about your service? You said that you were glad you did it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Mmhmm.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And anything else you want to add to that?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>No. Other—other than the fact that, um, I personally think that it makes a—a person better going into the military. And I for one, feel that it should be mandatory, because there’s a lot of kids that are going to—to education and that, because they don’t know what else to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And so you feel it…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Okay. And I think when they say it—when they say…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Gives them time to mature and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I’m sorry. What’s that?</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>It gives them time to mature…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>A little about the world and…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to grow up.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>And to grow up…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And to learn some discipline [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Yes. That’s the other area. That’s the other area. Like I said, so many don’t know what they want to do with themselves, and they end up in the military. Although they didn’t give me the opportunity to go in the direction that I wanted to. It certainly opened up my eyes to a lot of things. And one is independence. You know, being independent, being able to do things on your own, uh, washing your own clothes, making your own bed, uh, choosing the right things to do.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Did you become more adept to working with your hands?</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>I wish I could say yes [<em>laughs</em>].</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>[<em>laughs</em>] Some things you just can’t learn.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Some things that you—you have a difficult time doing. That’s correct. Um, I think I’m a little better with a hammer and nails now than I was. I wouldn’t go as far as work with any kind of sheet metal or anything, because I’m sure I would cut my fingers up in shreds, but Yeah. I think I’m a little bit better. I can—I can…</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>Well, Larry, I thank you for your service. And I thank you for this—for you doing this…</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Well, it was a pleasure.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>With us.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Very enjoyable. Very enjoyable.</p>
<p><strong>Young<br /></strong>And, uh, I enjoyed talking with you about it.</p>
<p><strong>Levine<br /></strong>Mmhmm. Thank you. Thank you.</p>
<div><br /><div>
<p><a title="">[1]</a> Formally called The Netherlands.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[2]</a> Government Issue or General Issue.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a title="">[3]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.</p>
</div>
</div>
Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website)
<a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/259/" target="_blank">Levine, Lawrence Paul</a>
accounting
advanced training
Airframe Repair School
airframe repair specialists
airframe repairman
airframe repairmen
airplanes
Amarill, Texas
Amarillo AFB
Amarillo Air Force Base
anti-war movement
basic training
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Brown University
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Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
Burlington County, New Jersey
C-141 Galaxy
colorblindness
Community Veterans History Project
conscription
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Detachment 51
draft board
draft lottery
drafts
education
enlistment
Europe
F-101
F-105
F-4
fast food restaurants
fiber glassing
fiberglass
firearms
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
G.I. Bill
Germany
Good Conduct Medal
gun ranges
guns
instructors
Ishihara Color Test
jet
jet fighter
jets
KC-135
Lackland AFB
Lackland Air Force Base
Larry Levine
Lawrence Paul Levin
marching
marriages
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McDonald's
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Mcguire AFB
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military draft
military education
military training
pacifism
pacifists
peace movement
phantom jets
planes
protests
Providence, Rhode Island
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Republic F-105 Thunderchief
Rhein-Main AB
Rhein-Main Air Base
RIT
riveting
Rochester Institute of Technology
Rochester, New York
San Antonio, Texas
Selective Service System
Sergeant
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
sharpshooters
sharpshooting
Shaw AFB
Shaw Air Force Base
sheet metal
Staff Sergeant
Sumter, South Carolina
TDY
temporary duty
The Platters
TI
training
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-
https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/75ca7b1d86eb69144532adf265d01702.jpg
38b4dd118fd8984d00a9370ec4653ddf
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection
Alternative Title
Lone Sailor Collection
Subject
Veterans--Florida
Orlando (Fla.)
United States. Navy
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando.
Contributor
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Is Part Of
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida.
Language
eng
Type
Collection
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Contributing Project
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a>
<a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>
Curator
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
External Reference
"<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/.
"<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials.
Original Format
1 black and white photograph
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
Saluting Sailor at the Orlando Naval Training Center
Alternative Title
NTC Orlando Sailor
Subject
Orlando (Fla.)
Navy
Sailors--United States
Description
An unidentified sailor salutes at Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando. NTC Orlando was in operation from 1968 to 1998 and was one of three recruit training centers used by the U.S. Navy. It resided in the area that is now the community of Baldwin Park. During the 30 years that NTC Orlando was operational, more than 650,000 men and women were transformed from civilians to sailors. Beginning in 1973, NTC Orlando became the Navy's only co-educational recruit training center.
Type
Still Image
Source
Original 3 x 3 inch black and white photograph by Johnson, March 1970: <a href="http://floridamemory.com/photographiccollection/collections/?id=6" target="_blank">Department of Commerce Collection</a>, shelf number SN037545, image number c674896, Florida Photographic Collection, State Library and Archives of Florida, Tallahassee, Florida.
Is Part Of
<a href="http://floridamemory.com/photographiccollection/collections/?id=6" target="_blank">Department of Commerce Collection</a>, shelf number SN037545, Florida Photographic Collection, State Library and Archives of Florida, Tallahassee, Florida.
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida.
Is Format Of
Digital reproduction of original 3 x 3 inch black and white photograph by Johnson, March 1970.
Has Format
Digital reproduction of original 3 x 3 inch black and white photograph by Johnson, March 1970: "<a href="http://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/58870" target="_blank">Unidentified sailor at the Naval Training Center - Orlando, Florida</a>." Department of Commerce Collection, shelf number SN037545, image number c674896, Florida Photographic Collection, State Library and Archives of Florida, Tallahassee, Florida. http://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/58870.
Coverage
Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida
Creator
Johnson
Date Created
1970-03
Format
image/jpg
Extent
35.3 KB
Medium
3 x 3 inch black and white photograph
Mediator
History Teacher
Civics/Government Teacher
Geography Teacher
Provenance
Originally created by Johnson.
Rights Holder
Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/index_Researchers.cfm" target="_blank">State Library and Archives of Florida</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only.
Accrual Method
Donation
Contributing Project
<a href="http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/index_Researchers.cfm" target="_blank">State Library and Archives of Florida</a>
Curator
Barnes, Mark
Cepero, Laura
Digital Collection
<a href="http://www.floridamemory.com/" target="_blank">Florida Memory</a>
<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>
Source Repository
<a href="http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/index_Researchers.cfm" target="_blank">State Library and Archives of Florida</a>
External Reference
Brokaw, David. Interview by Freddie Roman-Toro. Video. February 22, 2014. Lone Sailor Navy Memorial Project. RICHES of Central Florida. University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida.
Dobie, Kathy. "A Few Nice Men. (using Coed U.S. Navy Boot Camps to Reduce Incidence of Sexual Harassment)." <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1769261" target="_blank"><em>Vogue</em></a> 183, no. 2 (1993): 234, 299.
"<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/.
Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank"><em>A Guide to Historic Orlando</em></a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006.
"<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/.
military education
military training
Naval Training Center Orlando
NTC Orlando
orlando
sailors
training centers
U.S. Navy