32 100 4936 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/07e6bec83a190e1b586ee004f7edcbdd.mp3 187a4a9be507784ce65c432f6a6b8526 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/be86d7afae2d764311c85f1823f0025c.pdf 119f341379fca234c9f13ef52d2434db Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Casselberry Collection Alternative Title Casselberry Collection Subject Casselberry (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Casselberry, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Fort Concord was constructed near Lake Concord in 1849 to protect settlers during the Seminole Wars. Settlement increased following the passage of the Homestead Act in 1862. Stephen J. L. Hooker, the nephew of Florida cattleman William B. Hooker, migrated to the present-day Casselberry area in the 1850s. Gordon J. Barnett migrated to Altamonte Springs from New York and opened a fernery in the area. He also began a housing development called Fern Park Estates. Soon, the area became one of the world's largest fern producers. In 1926, Hibbard Casselberry migrated to Fern Park from Winnetka, Illinois, and began his own subdivision called Winter Park Ferneries. In 1937, Barnett was elected to the Florida House of Representative and failed passed a bill to incorporate the Town of Fern Park. On October 10, 1940, the Casselberry, which included parts of Fern Park, was incorporated as a tax-free town. The fern industry declined during World War II and Hibbard Casselberry began manufacturing bandoliers, bomb parachutes, and hospital tent liners. The City of Casselberry was incorporated on July 25, 1965. Contributor <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Casselberry, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.casselberry.org/index.aspx?nid=33" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Casselberry. http://www.casselberry.org/index.aspx?nid=33. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Motta, Daniel Interviewee Casselberry, Leonard Casselberry, Janes Location <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Leonard Casselberry and Jane Casselberry Alternative Title Oral History, Casselberry Subject Casselberry (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Ferns--Florida Azaleas--United States Description An oral history of Leonard and Jane Casselberry, conducted by Daniel Motta on May 30, 2012. In the interview, the Casselberrys discuss life in Casselberry, Florida, which was founded by Leonard's father, Hibbard Casselberry. Other topics discussed include the founding of Casselberry, working in the fern industry, the effect of World War II on the home front, how Leonard and Jane met, how Casselberry has changed over time, Hibbard Casselberry's involvement in growing azaleas and oak trees, and the Casselberrys' occupations after Leonard left the U.S. Navy. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:38 Education and childhood 0:02:00 Founding of Casselberry 0:04:28 How Leonard and Jane met 0:04:37 Working with ferns 0:13:04 Shipping ferns 0:15:59 Fern industry during the war 0:18:41 Leonard's father 0:19:48 How the city has progressed over time 0:21:50 Leonard's father and azaleas 0:24:08 Orange groves, oak trees, and local competition 0:26:20 After leaving the Navy 0:36:20 Opinion of Casselberry today 0:37:29 Leonard's occupations 0:38:53 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Leonard Casselberry and Jane Casselberry. Interview conducted by Daniel Motta at the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> in Sanford, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Original 39-minute and 14-second oral history: Casselberry, Leonard and Jane Casselberry. Interviewed by Daniel Motta. UCF Community Veterans History Project. May 30, 2012. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/117" target="_blank">Casselberry Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Creator Motta, Daniel Contributor Casselberry, Leonard Casselberry, Jane Vickers, Savannah Date Created 2012-05-30 Date Modified 2014-09-30 Date Copyrighted 2012-05-30 Format video/wav application/pdf Extent 396 MB 172 KB Medium 39-minute and 14-second audio recording 19-page typed transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Daniel Motta, Leonard Casselberry, and Janes Casselberry, and transcribed by Savannah Vickers. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.casselberry.org/index.aspx?nid=33" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Casselberry. http://www.casselberry.org/. Robison, Jim. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-05-25/news/0305230547_1_casselberry-fern-hibbard" target="_blank">Casselberry Family Sheds New Light On Life Of City Founder</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, May 25, 2003. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-05-25/news/0305230547_1_casselberry-fern-hibbard. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/files/original/07e6bec83a190e1b586ee004f7edcbdd.mp3" target="_blank">Oral History of Leonard Casselberry and Jane Casselberry</a> Transcript Motta All right. It is May 30, 2012, and I am speaking to Mr. Leonard Casselberry and Mrs. Jane Casselberry at the Museum of Seminole County History. To start off, Mr. Casselberry, can you tell me a little about where you were born and your childhood? Leonard Well, I was born in Chicago[, Illinois]. I fit in a shoebox when I came down here, and I grew up and went to school in Winter Park. Motta So you just moved down here when you were one or two? Leonard Yes, yes. Motta So you went through high school in Winter Park High School? Leonard I went to military school two years. Jane Bolles Leonard Bolles Military School in Jacksonville. Motta Jacksonville. Leonard And went in the Navy. Motta So did you not spend much of your childhood in the Central Florida area, or… Leonard Oh, yes. Yes, went to school in Winter Park, and back out in Casselberry, when I was working out there, following my dad around a little bit. It’s what you usually do [laughs]. Motta So how long did you stay? You went through high school here, or just—when did you go to military school? Leonard Junior, senior year. Motta Okay. Was there any particular reason you went there, or... Leonard Well, it was just coming up on the war [World War II], and dad sent us for a little military training or something. Motta So how old were you when the war broke out? Leonard Eighteen or something. Jane Seventeen, I think. Leonard Seventeen. Motta Seventeen? So you didn’t serve? You were a little too young then? Leonard Couldn’t get in, then. Motta Yeah. No, no problem there. Leonard [laughs]. Motta So do you have any memories of—I mean, how was it, being the son of somebody who was starting his own town? Leonard Of course, we—Dad<a title="">[1]</a> was in the fern business out here, and occasionally I could ride from Winter Park, where I went to school at. We lived on Lake Maitland in Winter Park, and I’d ride with Dad coming out here. From Via Tuscany, and then come out on… Jane Lake Howell Road. Leonard Lake Howell Road, and turn left and come back out this way. Motta I imagine that trip was different then, much different-looking. Leonard Yes, came by the turkey farm, and came on out through the orange groves, on out to Casselberry. Jane It wasn’t Casselberry in charter until 1940. His dad came in 1926, to work with—what’d they call it, Fern Park Estates? Where they would try to have like an artist colony, and people to come down, and they would have a little piece of fernery, and some orange, piece of orange groves. Maybe they’d have a little income with their house, and they could retire here or come in the winter, and… Motta And that was with Mr. Burnett? Jane Yes, he was hired to sell real estate, and to—and Mr. Burnett had a fernery, and Mr. Casselberry started his own fernery, and of course there was a lot of tension between the two. Motta Yeah, I’d imagine. Yeah. Jane Yeah. Motta And you went to Winter Park High School, correct—s well? Jane I did. I graduated from Winter Park High. Motta And that’s where you two met? Jane Yes. Motta So did either of you do any work with the ferns or azaleas or anything? Like, were you actually… Jane He did as a kid, in the winter, when they called everybody in due to the danger of freezing. Motta Any stories there? Leonard Well, you know, are you familiar with a fern shed, and you see the pots and so on? But what’s the temperature on there? And the temperature indicates it’s going to be down close to freezing. We’d call the hands in, so to speak, and watch the temperature, and then Dad had thermometers stuck in the different areas around the fernery, so we could check the different areas, and when the temperature goes down in one part of it, they notify, send somebody out to get the hands, ‘cause most of them didn’t live in Casselberry. They lived over in Altamonte [Springs], and they’d send the truck around, get the fellows to come in that were gonna be there, and one of the ladies would come in, do a little cooking for us. We’d watch, read the thermometers, and when the temperature goes down close to 30-something, we’d pass the word along. The men would come on in, and they’d get their—some of them would have—Dad used to issue boots, and… Jane How did they light the smudge pots? Leonard They’d go around with—light the flare or a little torchlight that they could light, and they’d tip them down and spill some of the diesel and gas mixture into the pot to get it started. Motta Into the soil? Leonard In the pot. Light up, take a little while, ‘cause it was fuel oil and not gasoline. It’d explode or something. So. Motta So that’s how they kept the ferns warm? Leonard Yes—well, they’d light it. And, I was reading—Paul Bates was one of those foremen there, and he’d go in and light the north, and the west, or sometimes the east side, first. A row along the fence. Well, the heat inside slat roofs like that, keeps some of the heat underneath. But it’d let the sunlight in the daytime, but when it got cold, it’d keep some of the heat in it. When the temperature got down to 32 [degrees Fahrenheit], they’d light up the side that the breeze was blowing on, and that would go through the fernery and would still keep it above freezing, until it got lower at other parts and they’d light other pots. Sometimes they’d have to light them all—before morning, ‘cause the cold temperature here about seven o’clock or after. It was quite interesting, and we’d get around the heaters, and of course we’d have to continue reading, and if the temperature drops down, or comes back up, we’d put some of them out, or didn’t light them all. When the time comes to shut them down, they’d go by and snuff them out. Then we’d have to fuel them, and Dad got the Atlantic Coast Line Railway[sic] to put a side track on up there where Casselberry’s siding, inside where our railroad station is, and how it got started. Got a siding there. They’d come in, drop a tanker there, and we’d pump it out of there, and some of it would be there, then we’d pump it from there, part of it, out to a tank out by one part of the fernery, and another part to another part. Then they also had another pump. It would feed the line. We had line running from the tank on out the fernery. I don’t know if it shows it in this photograph or not, of a—run about a two-inch line, and then drops down to smaller, and then we had the faucet to fill at the end of each row where the pots were going down through, like in a row, and fasten the oil hose there, close the valve, of course, and then, move to the next one and fill the next row of pots that way. Motta Well, there’s a lot—there’s a lot you don’t think about, that goes into that. Leonard Yeah, they dragged in the oil, you know, like a sprinkler line or hose line down there, and it has a valve on the hose, so you’ll stick it inside the pot and watch until it gets full, turn it off and go to the next pot, does the same thing, in a row, and then as far as they can reach, and then go over to the next one and go back down, to fill them so they’d be ready for the next day. Jane Well, tell him about how they’d cut the fern asparagus plumosus and how they sorted it and everything. Leonard Well, asparagus plumosus used to—you’d refer to it as that ferns you’d see in the front of the banquet or someplace like that. Jane The center of the table. Leonard The center of the table. Sometime you get a flake of it in your butter or something—like that, butter patty? Jane [laughs]. Leonard It’s a lacy fern, and it usually lays flat. When it grows, as you call it asparagus plumosus, it comes up just like a shoot of asparagus, and comes on out and sticks way up in a room like this and finally feathers out up there like that, and turned—of course, it’s not always green. It’s yellow and gets green when—it gets dark green—when you grip it off to bring in the packinghouse, and in the packinghouse, they’ll cut them and bring them in in bunches, big bunches like this—field hands— ‘cause they’ll catch all different kinds when they’re clipping them, just trying to clip ripe ones, or good ones, so to speak, and then we they come in—and then the girls will grade them, and they’ll grade them, and some of them are long, and some of them are medium, and some will be shorts. Motta And get rid of the… Leonard The rest of them. Motta The rejects. Leonard Well, yeah. Go out, and then, they will be more or less laid flat on each other, like this, with a ball, bag of moss, like, on the end of it, with a—they’re tied together. Jane And it would have been in a tank of water. Leonard Ball of paper around it, and then they would be put in a tank to preserve them, like when you put flowers in a jar to keep them. Motta Were they shipped out like that? Leonard They would just sit down on slats in shallow tanks, like this, in rows, and then they would go in, pick them out, and go to pack them. Well, they were taken out of there, and dipped in icy water, and break up ice, put it in a tank, about so square and that deep. They’d dip them in so they’d get wet all the way through. Then they’d throw them on the rack and let them drain out, and then they’d put them in thin wood pack… Jane Crates. Leonard Crates, like food crates, like… Motta Like fruit crates? Leonard Similar to that, and they would line the box with newspapers. We used to open up newspapers, get them flat like this, and then we’d roll them and take them and sell them to Barnett or Casselberry who needs them, buys them, pays them so much a pound for them. So many cents a pound for them. The newspapers all flat, and they’d take four, five, six of them to line the box, put down the end, the side, and the side like this, and some in the bottom. They’d put a few bunches of fern in there like this, and then they’d have a chunk ice, and wrap it in newspaper, several layers, depending upon the size of the box for shipping, and you’d be put it in the middle. They’d put some more fern around it like that, close newspapers around it like that, and close the crate like that. Then you gotta—like an ice box, ice in the middle, wrapped up in paper, and the fern’s the insulation, and outside’s the insulation’s newspapers, and they’d take it to the railway express, and they’d load it on the train. Motta I never realized how much ice was involved with ferns. Leonard Yes. Jane And the—these ferns were shipped directly to the florist, and they could be packed to order if they wanted so many shorts or longs. Motta And did you ship just to around the Florida area, or nationally? Leonard Nationally. Jane All the states and Canada. Motta Oh, yeah? Jane At one time, it was the largest fern business in the world. Motta And that kind of tapered off after the [World] War [II]? Jane Well, during the war, of course, that was not a priority, to ship ferns. There were war materials. Also, a lot of the men were called to war, and didn’t have people to work. Motta So the women were mostly working in the… Jane So that’s when Mr. Casselberry was looking for something to help the war effort that would involve something that the women would be good at, and they said women can sew, you know. So that’s when they started making the bandoliers for the Army. Leonard And parachutes for fragmentation bombs? Jane That came later. Motta And your father—did he own the factories that made those, or... Jane Yes. Leonard Yes, he converted some of the buildings where the fertilizer mixing—where we mixed the fertilizer for a while, and we quit doing that and used that building on the railroad… Jane To make bandoliers. Leonard To make bandoliers on it. Jane But for the parachutes, we had to have a special building, and of course getting any priority to build anything was frankly impossible back then. Leonard Couldn’t build, even with the parts that you couldn’t buy building material, to build houses or anything like that, ‘cause everything was going to the war. Jane But he got the permission ‘cause they needed this product, and it went up in, what, how many days? A month or two months, and they said it was like a miracle building, you know. So that’s where they were making the bomb chutes to be used… Motta Do you… Jane Do you wanna tell what they—how they—why they needed them? Leonard Well, they needed them for fragmentation bombs. The ones they dropped bombs on, they had to fly low to drop down. But when you drop a bomb, it follows along underneath your plane. So they wanted a parachute for the backup to slow the—so the pilot could get out, you know? Jane Lost a lot of planes that way! Leonard [laughs]. Jane So they came up with the idea of putting a parachute on the bomb so it would slow it down and let the crew get away. Motta I’ve always seen the parachutes on the bomb, and I never thought of that. Yeah, that’s—could I—I’d like to back up a little bit. When you two met in high school, did you know who he was? I mean, did you know, like, who his father was? Jane Well, we were probably in tenth grade, and we would have shared some classes, study hall. Motta So everybody knew who his father was and everything at that time? Jane Well, not really much. But he had a nice convertible—owned by his dad—that he could come to school in. [laughs] Motta What kind of convertible? Jane Ford. Leonard This was a Ford Club Coupe convertible, with the top down. Motta Oh [laughs]. That’s a nice Florida car. Leonard Yeah, she wanted a ride home, but she didn’t tell me that ‘til later. Motta [laughs] Well, looks like things worked out well. Leonard Yes, very well. Jane Yes, and he lived on one side of Lake Maitland, and I lived on the other, and he would come see me in his mother’s sailboat. Motta So that was in Winter Park, not Maitland, you lived in? Jane That was Winter Park, Lake Maitland. Motta Okay. So, I mean, [laughs] what do you—I’d love to get your opinion on what you think of how the city’s [Casselberry] progressed. When you look at it today, what do you think? I mean, what comes to your mind? Leonard Well, we remember when we were incorporated, but also remember when we didn’t have so many families there. Jane Back to about the paper that they wrapped the ice in, that was a good way—later, after the war, when we had children, that’s how they made their money to go to the movies or whatever. We’d take newspapers, and roll them, and sell them to the fernery. Motta Oh, yeah? So people would just collect newspapers and sell them? Leonard Yeah, you’d collect your newspapers, leftover newspapers. Jane Stack them up and roll them. Leonard Recycling, so to speak. Motta Do you remember how much you got for like a bundle, or—like, how much… Jane Not much, but it was a lot then. Motta Yeah, few cents here and there. Yeah. Leonard Well, get a couple of rolls, and you made a movie ticket. Motta That’s not bad. Jane And the ferns were shipped on railway express, back then, ‘cause they didn’t have the airplanes and things, and one of the first times we ever sent a shipment out on air, we went up to Ocala, and there was just like a cargo plane, maybe like a [Douglas] DC-3. Motta So there wasn’t an airport near Sanford, then? Jane Well, I don’t know. Maybe that was the nearest one that was shipping agricultural things. Motta So do you remember—I read that your father got into azaleas—like starting to grow azaleas. Is that correct? Jane Yeah. Leonard Yes, back… Jane Earlier he was into gladiolas. Motta Oh, yeah. Jane They grew out gladiolas from the bulbs. And—I gave Kim [Nelson] a picture, and the Belgian azaleas were beautiful. Up ‘til then, you know, just had the plain azaleas. But we had—with the Belgian azaleas, there were so many different varieties, and they were ruffled, [inaudible], different colors and combination of colors, and he was in business with a man called Jules Cole… Leonard Jules Cole. Jane That knew about azaleas. That’s how they got introduced. Motta But it was mostly just ferns. That was the main product? Jane Yeah. Leonard The Belgian azaleas, they set up as a couple acres or something like that for him, and developed them. Dad sold them out on the highway, and would scatter them around through town. Jane There was an area that had, like the bay trees and oak trees and things. It was like north of where the [Casselberry] City Hall is now. It’s this plain, but back then it was just thick woods. Motta Near Lake Concord, or... Jane And he had, like… Leonard South of Lake Concord. Motta Okay. Jane Like a faux Cypress Gardens. He had girls in antebellum skirts and outfits, showing people around the azaleas. Motta Oh, yeah? Were there like refreshments and things there? Leonard No, it wasn’t that. But it was just a… Motta Just a… Leonard Something that slows traffic down. Jane [laughs]. Motta So you mentioned going by orange groves. Your father wasn’t in that business at all? Orange… Leonard No, we had a couple places where we started some going. Tally Hattaway and I got a bunch of seedlings up, but we didn’t follow through with much of them. Jane They were, like, sour, and they had this idea of planting them in the ferneries to add a shade. I guess it was expensive to replace the slats, and they planted these trees—orange trees—that got big, to provide shade, and that was the area where you find Target now. Motta By the Evergreen Cemetery? Jane It was all ferneries, and it had those orange trees growing in there. The sour oranges. Motta So the orange trees were pretty much abandoned then, ‘cause of the sour? Jane Yeah. Leonard Yeah, well, they liked the oak trees, and the competition we had… Jane Oak trees, yeah. Leonard Was from DeLand ferneries, and they’d grow theirs out in the woods, under the oak trees. Jane Out in Volusia [County]. Motta So that was your father’s competition, the DeLand growers? Leonard Some of it was there. Jane We had local competition. Leonard Yeah, and then, so, we started buying oak trees. Dad put some of them on every lot that he was developing, and then we had planted some of them in ferneries, and so we had quite a few that were trees, but we didn’t replace the slats much again, and just let them grow under the trees. We could get them that way. Jane Well, we moved to Casselberry after he got out of the Navy, after World War II, and he had a piece of fernery that he’d inherited, from an aunt or something? Leonard Aunt May had left it to my brother and I, a couple acres of fernery, were on these development deals where they could have a house on it and so on, and Dad just leased those, so I said, “Well, can I lease those?” And Dad said, “Yeah, let me lease them.” So I’d be responsible for them, and I’d see about getting the fertilizer, mowing them, taking care of them. Had a crew working, just like big crews too. Yeah. Of course, in most cases they’re cutting fern or something like that, but they also had crews that they’d weed when they weren’t cutting. They’d go back to weeding or something else. Motta So that looks like a pretty big fernery. Was that about average size, or was this... Leonard No, that’s just one acre or so. There’d be several of those put together. Jane And he got, worked up all these florist customers, and we went through the Midwest, visiting and trying to get business. Motta So was that your primary business after you got out of the Navy? Leonard Probably for a little while. But Dad wanted us to go to the conventions, and we’d have to wear white. Jane Yeah, he always wore a white Palm Beach suit, or white with white jodhpurs or something, with a spray of fern on his lapel, and so when we were going with him to Chicago, to the convention, we had to have the white suits, too. With the fern. Motta And you didn’t care for those? Jane Oh, they were fine, except I got one and he said, “No, that wouldn’t do it.” It had to be like the Palm Beach kind of suit. Motta Wrong kind of fern? Jane So—went back and got some more—another outfit. Motta So you’ve lived in Casselberry since then? You haven’t lived anywhere else, moved anywhere? Jane Not since then. Leonard Well, we lived at the horse track for several years. Motta At the horse track? Leonard Yes. Jane Yes, see, soon after we moved to Casselberry, Mr. Casselberry acquired the Seminole Driving Park, and that was what, at the time, a winter training track for harness horses, and it was built about 1925, something like that, and then at time there was thoroughbred racing and different things. So here we were. We had no experience in this at all, and they’re a very closed community—the horsemen. But, so then he had to get the property ready, the barns fixed up and tack rooms, and came with it like a grandstand and a clubhouse. Well, his dad wanted him to run the clubhouse like an American plan hotel. So, as well as maintaining the track and everything, we had to go in the hotel business. Motta And that was... Jane And he was his early twenties, with—had to learn, like, experience… Motta As you’re going along? Jane Yeah, and he had to go up north to the horse sales to placate the horsemen that might have been upset about something that happened before we got it, and talk them into coming back, and then he would fix up the barns and do this and that. So. Leonard Of course, we didn’t know that when Dad—it’s adjacent to his property, and Dad bought it and he’d acquired some additional property to be able to develop part of. Says, “You can take care of the horses or I can.” So we were in there and trying to take care of it. When they sold it is when the horsemen had agreed with Ben White Raceway, which hadn’t started yet. They said Orlando told them, “We’ll build this half-mile track in Orlando if you’ll come down here, leave Seminole [County].” So they agreed to do that. Jane Well, we figured, at least we’ve got this guy Frank that’s a track man that would know what to do and knows the horsemen, and then he announces that he’s been hired to go to Ben White [laughs]. Motta So they just stole it all away from... Jane Yeah [laughs]. Leonard Well, they stayed just a little bit. We had some help getting up until they had to move to over there, on how to handle—we bought a jeep to drag the track with. Had a water wagon. Jane A clay track. Dirt track. Motta And was this all—were all these jobs—you were writing at the time? Jane I was not writing—well, I had been writing just local news for the area newspapers. Motta Like the Sanford newspaper? Jane But not full-time. So, his dad advertised it with an organization called “Ask Mr. Foster”, where you could—they send people to you, a travel service, you know, and so we were getting—here we were, and we had people, ninety-year-old women and eighty-year-old men, and then we had young families looking for excitement, and women looking for men. Whatever, you know [laughs]. Had all this variety, plus we had the horsemen to feed, and the grooms you’d have to feed like at five in the morning, before they went out to work the horses, and we’d have—they would be kind of rough, and would come and get drunk or something, and then we’d have these nice people [laughs] Oh, it was interesting. Motta Sounds interesting. So did you have any other jobs after that, or... Jane Well, in the summertime, we didn’t have the horses. About May, they would go up to the races, and sometimes you would have car races back then, before they had the Daytona… Motta [Daytona] 500? Jane They would have stock car races on that track. Motta And where was this located, the track located? In the… Jane You know where Seminola Boulevard is? Motta The same, where the… Jane Where they’re building apartments there now. Motta Oh, the big… Jane At the end of Seminola Boulevard. Motta Oh, yeah, the big field area. Leonard Yeah. Jane Yeah, all of that was our track property. Motta When did that go away, the track? Jane We had a one-mile track. After Mr. Casselberry sold his white elephant. He—it was various kinds of horse races with pari-mutuel betting, and then it was dog races. I mean, we had like a dog track on each end of Seminola. Motta So the track went away in the ‘70s or so, or, around then? Jane Well, a few years back, they closed down the dog track, and then they sold it to this developer. Well, actually, they sold it to Northland Church, and then Northland decided to expand on their present property on Dog Track [Road], and they sold it to the developer, and they’re still building and building, building. Motta Oh, wow. Well, learn something new every day. Leonard Yes. Motta So, your opinion on today’s Casselberry? Leonard Is it what? Motta Do you like it? Do you enjoy what the city is like now? Leonard Oh, yes. Of course, Dad had a lot of fun while it was happening. Motta Yeah. I know it was a lot different. Leonard He was working and sweating on a lot of it, some of it. Motta You think he would be proud of what it has become? Leonard Oh, yes. Jane I think so. Right now, it’s in kind of flux in major areas, business areas, because of those fly-overs. Motta Yeah, I actually live just about a half-mile from one of those—the construction site. So, yeah. Jane Yeah, they built—you know, they bought up property. But it’s just sitting there, and the business had to move, or close, or something. But we like the parks, what they’re doing with the parks. They’re beautiful, and people are using them. Motta Well, let’s see if we have any… Jane You asked what he did. He’s done a little bit of everything, but he worked for Casselberry Utilities many years. His father developed the sewer system that built the sewer plant and everything. That was the first sewer plant in Seminole County that really treated the sewage. Leonard Sanford had one. They just chewed it a little bit and dumped it in a lake. Jane Dumped it in Lake Monroe. Leonard [laughs]. Motta Did your father own the utility company, or was that city by then? Leonard He owned it. Jane He owned it, and eventually it was sold to the city, and he continued to work for the city. Leonard For a short time. Jane For a time. Leonard Seven years. Not enough to get a retirement out of it. Jane And then after he retired, he went to work for the City of Winter Park Utilities, ‘til he was up in mid-seventies. Motta Oh, impressive. Leonard That’s a while back. Jane Yes, 87 now. Motta Oh, wow. Congratulations. Working into your mid-seventies, that’s admirable. Jane A lot of people can be doing that now [laughs]. Motta Yeah, it’s admirable, though. Was there anything else you would like to discuss that we haven’t already? Any anecdotes or anything? Leonard Any more questions you have? Motta I think we covered a lot there. Leonard Yes, more than you want, probably. Motta Oh, no, this is great for me. All right. Well, thank you very much. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Hibbard Casselberry. </div> </div> Altamonte Springs Ask Mr. Foster asparagus plumosus azaleas bandoliers Belgian azaleas Ben White Raceway Bolles School bomb chutes Burnett car racing Casselberry Casselberry Utilities Chicago, Illinois City of Winter Park Utilities Cole, Julius Cypress Gardens Daniel Motta Daytona 500 DeLand dog racing Dog Track Road Douglas DC-3 Evergreen Cemetery Fern Park Estates ferneries fernery ferns fertilizer mixing fertilizers Ford Club Coupe convertible fragmentation bombs gladiolas Hattaway, Tally Hibbard Casselberry horse racing horse tracks horses hotels Jacksonville Jane Casselberry Julius Cole Kim Nelson Lake Concord Lake Howell Road Lake Maitland Lake Monroe Leonard Casselberry Longwood military schools Northland Church oak trees Ocala orange groves orange trees oranges orlando packinghouses Palm Beach parachutes railway express Sanford Savannah Vickers schools Seminola Boulevard Seminole County Seminole Parking Drive sewage Target U.S. Army U.S. Navy Via Tuscany Volusia County Winter Park Winter Park High School World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/5060b0aa4f35f0f8e8849c801596d17e.pdf 5b2d71118c376faca67342aa9e01f302 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title History Harvest Collection Alternative Title History Harvest Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Schools Elementary schools Grammar schools High schools--Florida Description The Student Museum Collection encompasses historical artifacts donated for digitization at the Student Museum History Harvest in the Spring semester of 2013. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Sanford High School, Sanford, Florida Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a> <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center/Student Museum</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center</a>." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/. "<a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a>." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Settle, John Interviewee Moscato, Linda Location <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Original Format 1 digital audio/video recording Duration 4 minutes and 23 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 263 kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Linda Moscato Alternative Title Oral History, Moscato Subject Pittsburg (Pa.) Miami (Fla.) Oral histories Description Oral history of Linda Moscato, interviewed by John Settle on March 2, 2013, for the UCF Public History Center's History Harvest. In the oral history, Moscato discusses the items she contributed to the History Harvest, which including photographs, birth certificates, and other documents. Moscato was born Linda Leigh Morgan on November 11, 1940, in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, where he great grandfather was a steel worker. The father of Moscato's daughter, Joseph Moscato, entered into military service during World War II when he was 17 and later became a teacher for truck driver training in Miami, Florida. She had three children, all of which were born in Miami: Scott Sheridan, Anna Sophia Moscato, and Dean Moscato. She also graduated from the University of Central Florida on May 1, 2004, with a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice. Abstract Oral history interview of Linda Moscato. Interview conducted by John Settle at <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> in Sanford, Florida. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:20 Items contributed for digitization 0:03:12 Importance of history 0:03:55 Items contributed for digitization 0:04:15 Closing remarks Creator Settle, John Moscato, Linda Source Moscato, Linda. Interviewed by John Settle. UCF Public History Center, HAR1063471P. March 2, 2013. Video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Date Created 2013-03-02 Has Format Digital transcript of original oral history: Moscato, Linda. Interviewed by John Settle. UCF Public History Center, HAR1063471P. March 2, 2013. Video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 333 MB 94.1 KB Medium 4-minute and 23-second digital audio/video recording 5-page typed transcript Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Miami, Florida University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by John Settle and Linda Moscato and owned by the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to the resource is held by the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> History Harvest, Spring 2013 Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> External Reference Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/236352271" target="_blank">Pittsburgh, 1758-2008</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Bramson, Seth. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85822162" target="_blank">Miami: The Magic City</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2007. Holic, Nathan. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/424558752" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Transcript Settle Okay. My name is John Settle. We’re here at our History Harvest event at the [UCF] Public History Center. It’s Saturday March 2nd, 2013. I’m here with Linda… Moscato Moscato. Settle Moscato. And how did you hear about our event today? Moscato In The [Orlando] Sentinel newspaper. Settle That’s great. Can you tell us about some of the items you brought to have digitized? Moscato Yes. I can. This is a copy of my graduation certificate and a picture of me when I graduated from UCF [University of Central Florida]. This is a copy of my daughter, Anna [Moscato]’s father, Joseph Moscato, from the Second World War. He was 17 when he went into the service. And this is also a picture of him as a teacher for truck driver training in Miami, Florida. Joseph Moscato And this is a picture of, John Dando, and he was my great grandfather from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvannia. And he was a steel worker. And this is a certificate of baptism for my daughter, Anna Moscato. And this is my birth certificate from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And this is a picture of my son, Scott Sheridan, and my daughter, Anna Moscato. And I have these birth certificates. This is of my oldest son, Scott Sheridan. And its front and back, it shows their little feet. That is how they printed the children that many years ago. And this is a birth certificate from my daughter, Anna Sophia Moscato. Settle You brought quite the collection you have to be digitized. Do you want to just say a little bit about, you know, why your personal history is important to you? Moscato Well , I think, we need to—it’s a part of history. And it’s a part of being part of the United States, and a proud member of a family. And what a family means to people. And I am a history buff. I like history. And I attend a lot of history events. And so I just wanted these to be on a disc, so that they can be saved, because, of course, a disc is gonna last a lot longer than paper. And this is my son Dean Moscato. That’s his birth certificate. And, I don’t know, these are small versions. So I don’t know whether you can use those. These were the cards that were on their bassinettes, when—when they were born. And that’s what I have. Settle That’s great. We really appreciate you coming out. Okay, I’m gonna go ahead and stop recording. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a title="http://youtu.be/AMa-lAXkNAo" href="http://youtu.be/AMa-lAXkNAo" target="_blank">Oral History of Linda Moscato</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/73" target="_blank">Seminole County Public Schools Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center/Student Museum</a> baptism birth certificate certificate of baptism Dando, John History Harvest Miami Morgan, Linda Leigh Moscato, Anna Sophia Moscato, Dean Moscato, Joseph Moscato, Linda Pittsburgh, Pennsylvannia Public History Center Settle, John Sheridan, Scott The Orlando Sentinel UCF University of Central Florida https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b68be473f951291de70776da931af490.pdf ce748faaff6172c2f6a075c8200d5854 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection Alternative Title Celery Soup Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Community theater--United States Theater--United States Description The Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play Remade - Not Bought, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida. Contributor Dingle, Cathy Lee Delgado, Natalie Fedorka, Drew M. Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot A. Kelley, Katie Lee, Luticia Gormley Maliczowski, Linda Lee Maples, Marilyn Miller, Mark Reisz, Autumn Thompson, Trish Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer French, Scot Interviewee Lee, Latisha Mallaskaski, Linda Bingle, Cathy Location Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 32 minutes and 17 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 912kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Luticia "Tish" Lee, Linda Maliczowski, and Catherine "Cathy" Dingle Alternative Title Oral History, Lee, Maliczowski, and Dingle Subject Sanford (Fla.) Oral history--United States Rolling pins Baking--United States World War II--United States Secretaries--Biography American Legion Heirlooms--United States Description Oral history of Luticia "Tish" Lee and her two daughters, Linda Maliczowski and Cathy Dingle. The interview was conducted by University of Central Florida Professor of History Dr. Scot French on October 20, 2013. Lee was born in Sanford, Florida in 1923 and lived in her family house, which was constructed in 1926, while growing up. Her father was a member of the American Legion and worked as a superintendent for the Crown Paper Company, and also as a carpenter. Following her high school graduation, Lee worked as a secretary for the local ice plant, which no longer stands. Other topics in the oral history include Sanford during World War II, the cannon at the American Legion Hall, the Lee family rolling pin and other family heirlooms, baking various foods, Lee's father, the grocery store run by Lee's mother and aunt, Lee's involvement with Creative Sanford, Inc. productions, a family fireless cooker, and the French house. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:30 Lee's biographical information 0:01:59 Cedar chest and rolling pin 0:03:23 Reflections on life 0:04:26 Sanford during World War II 0:06:25 Scrap metal drive and the American Legion cannon 0:08:46 History of family rolling pin 0:10:56 Lee's father 0:12:40 History of the American Legion cannon 0:13:39 Memories of the home front and the end of WWII 0:15:37 Sailors and the Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford 0:16:58 How Sanford change after the war 0:18:12 Family heirlooms 0:18:33 Lee's grandfather and his hospital 0:18:58 Uncle James' grocery store 0:21:02 How Lee got involved with Creative Sanford 0:23:19 Lee's daughters, Linda Maliczowski and Cathy Dingle 0:25:10 Cooking and its connection to family memories 0:26:11 Closing remarks 0:26:55 RECORDING CUTS OFF 0:26:55 History of the fireless cooker 0:30:30 The French house Abstract Oral history interview of Luticia Lee, Linda Maliczowski, and Cathy Dingle. Interview conducted by Scot French at the Lee home in Sanford, Florida. An oral history interview conducted by Dr. Scot French. The interviewees were Luticia “Tish” Lee and her two daughters, Linda Maliczowski and Cathy Dingle. We discuss the Second World War, life in Sanford during this time, the rolling pin and its origins and significance, and several other important topics. Type Moving Image Source Lee, Luticia, Linda Maliczowski, and Cathy Dingle. Interviewed by Scot French. October 30, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 32-minute and 17-second oral history: Lee, Luticia, Linda Maliczowski, and Cathy Dingle. Interviewed by Scot French. October 30, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Creative Sanford, lnc., Sanford, Florida Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53, Sanford, Florida Naval Air Station (NAS), Sanford, Florida Lee Grocery Store, Sanford, Florida French House, Sanford, Florida Creator French, Scot Lee, Luticia Maliczowski, Linda Dingle, Cathy Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Orleman, Andrew Snow, Paul Date Created 2013-10-30 Date Modified 2014-01-06 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 211 MB 222 KB Medium 32-minute and 17-second audio/video recording 23-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Scot French, Luticia Lee, Linda Maliczowski, and Cathy Dingle, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Snow, Paul Orleman, Andrew Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. "<a href="http://www.americanlegionpost53florida.com/" target="_blank">American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53</a>." American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53. http://www.americanlegionpost53florida.com/. "<a href="http://www.legion.org/history" target="_blank">History</a>." The American Legion. http://www.legion.org/history. American Legion. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/9009612" target="_blank">The American Legion</a>. Indianapolis, Ind: American Legion, 1981. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/TqOAVymoNAk" target="_blank">Oral History of Luticia "Tish" Lee, Linda Maliczowski, and Catherine "Cathy" Dingle</a> Date Copyrighted 2013-10-30 Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Transcript French So to—to—what we usually do with the beginning of the interviews is introduce ourselves and I’m Scot [French]. This is October 30th, 2013. And, um, we are interviewing, uh, Luticia Lee. Do you go by “Tish?” “Tisch?” Lee Tish. French Tish? Lee Tish. French How do you spell that? “T-I-C-H” or “S-H”? Lee S-H. Maliczowski T-I-S-H. French You know, on some of the things we had from Creative Sanford[, Inc]. It had “C,” and so I’m glad we asked. Dingle Yes[?]. French Um, and so the first—let[sic] me do is to ask you: would you intro—you mind introducing yourself to us? All [laugh] Lee Well… Maliczowski Just tell ‘em your name. Dingle Tell ‘em your name. Lee My name is Luticia Lee, and I was born in Sanford in, um, 1923. And my house was built in 1926. And at—growing up, I could walk everywhere. I could walk to school. And um, at that time, there were just three houses on the block. And then in, um—I’m not sure when—but the Spencer house that was on the corner, it burned. It was the old house and it burned. So, until ’46, there was just this house and the one my aunt and uncle built. And then in ‘46, Braley[?] Oaklem[?] built more houses. And um, so things really did change you know. You—you didn’t have that many people here [laughs]. And, uh, you knew everybody. And now, I go to town and I don’t know anybody. All [laugh] Lee It’s changed so, but, um—and, I do have friends that I went to school with. And we try to go out once a week for dinner and we graduated together in ‘42 [laughs]. And that’s when, um, my dad—Mom and Daddy gave me my cedar chest. And that’s when, um, Mama crocheted me a bedspread, which I still have. And Daddy wanted to make something, and that’s when—it was the beginning of the [World] War [II]. And they asked for scrap metal and that’s when they took—were taking out—down their cannon. And Daddy had—was in the military and he helped take it down. And he got the, um, spoke from the wheel, and made my rolling pin, which is the only rolling pin I have used all these years. And I’m giving it to Cathy [Dingle],<a title="">[1]</a> ‘cause she cooks, and she bakes cookies, and she rolls ‘em. All [laugh] Dingle She<a title="">[2]</a> cooks as well, but I bake [laughs]. Maliczowski I get the, um… Dingle Fireless… Maliczowski Fireless cooker. All [laugh] Maliczowski I’m gonna do the crock pot thing. All [laugh] French Oh great. Great. Lee So she gets the—and um… But I’ve had a wonderful life. I really have. Been right here. Still have friends that I’ve had all my life. I’ve lost a lot, but when you reach 90, you, um—you—it happens, you know? So—and if I get sad, I just sit down and count my blessings, ‘cause I’ve got a lot of them. I have three children, I have four grandchildren, I have four great-grandchildren, and I have wonderful in-laws. Everybody is good to me. And my husband took care of me. He’s been gone 10 years, but I have somebody do the yard, I have a landscaper, I have, um, a cleaning service to do the house. So I just sit around and watch people work. All [laugh] Lee I don’t work anymore [laughs]. French Well we’re—we’re putting you to work today, because you are our resident historian. All [laugh] French And we’re—we’d love to hear a little bit more about Sanford during World War II. Uh, you graduated from high school in ’42? Lee Yeah. French And what are your memories of that period—of being in Sanford during the war? Lee Well, now, I was working during the war. Um, I was a secretary at the ice plant. And um, and we, um—we iced the cars. That, you know—I didn’t do it. Unidentified [laughs] Lee The people did. And, um, I kept the records. And, uh, they took all the stuff to troops and everything. French These are railroad cars or— or shipping cars? What kind of cars were they? Lee They were railroad cars. Railroad cars. It was the—on the tracks out on [Florida State Road] 46. And I think they still—they don’t—I don’t know if the ice plant’s still there. Dingle No. Maliczowski It was for years, but, uh, I don’t think it is anymore. Lee And, um… French And you were a secretary at the… Lee Mmhmm. French Ice plant? Lee For a few years. It didn’t really take. All [laugh] Lee I just did what I was told. And I—but, um, and it—it’s Sanford during the war. We—we had the base<a title="">[3]</a> out here. And, uh, sometimes we dated the pilots, which was a lot of fun. All [laugh] Lee But, um, I don’t know. French Did you, um—were—were there local rallies or efforts to sort of rally the town’s people? Uh, you mentioned that they decided to melt the cannon, because of the scrap metal drive. Do you remember much about the scrap metal drives, and other things? Lee Honey, I got—I—I researched that, and there’s the papers over there. French Oh. Lee And it—yeah. I wanted to know. French And so are these, uh—okay. So these are some of the materials that you—you did all the research on this, you… Lee Yes. I did. French You went down to the museum? Lee Yeah. French And um… Lee And see? It says, “County League [inaudible] scrap collection on per capita basis.” And, um, I—it was very interesting. It really was. And, and, uh “Legion pole?” Oh, I can’t read… French “Legion post will give up cannon in scrap drive.” This is perfect. This is exactly what we were hoping… Lee Yeah. French To find. You’ve done the work for us. [laughs] All [laugh] Lee Well… French Thank you. Lee I wanted to know what was, you know—and this was the Legion Hut.<a title="">[4]</a> Maliczowski And she had pictures made, and—and a frame made, and took the picture out to the Legion. Lee And see… French Oh, wonderful. Maliczowski So they would know. Lee And that’s what… French Is this also from the museum? Lee Hm? French Is this from the museum? Or is this a…. Lee Well, um… French This photograph… Lee Uh, they took a picture. You see, they didn’t have a picture out at the new Legion Hut. And, um, I thought they should have one. So I went and—and got a picture. And—of the canon, and, um, now—but I couldn’t ever find out who that man was. French Mmhmm. Lee I guess the ones that were there then were all gone. So I don’t know who he was. But anyway, I had that, um, copied and I framed it and I took it out and I gave it to them, so they’d have a picture of the old Legion Hut. French That is wonderful. Lee And they put it up. French That is wonderful. Lee So, anyway… French This is great. And this—you—these pictures are from the museum? Is that where you found these? Lee Yes. I found them… French Great. Lee From the paper. French Great. Wow. And this is, uh, a handwritten note? Lee I had that and I can’t read it now [laughs]. French Do you rem—what of the—you wrote this for yourself? Or… Lee Yes. For me. French And what was the—what was the event that led you to write that? Lee Well, uh, I think there was something in, um—in the paper about, um… French Do you want me to read it? Dingle Want me to go look, Mama? Lee You can read it maybe. It’s about when Daddy decided to make, um… Dingle Oh, oh this is when, um—deciding which precious keepsake you wanted… Lee Oh. Dingle To write about from your cedar chest. Lee Oh. Dingle And, um, how Granddaddy wanted you to have something that was from him. And how he went about getting the—the spoke and… Lee Yeah. Dingle Making the… Lee Making my… Maliczowski Your rolling pin. Dingle Your rolling pin to go in your hope chest. That’s why you wrote that up. French And this was from the paper? Lee I wrote it up to put in the cedar chest. French Oh, to put in the cedar chest. So did you write this? Dingle So that people would know what, you know—so that we would know where it came from. We would—we would have a history of why she had it and where it came from. French Mmhmm. Lee Because, um, I wanted them to know. See, Mama crocheted the bedspread and Daddy wanted to put something in it. Dingle Mmhmm. Lee So I wrote it… Maliczowski Wrote it down for us. French So, this is the rolling pin. Do you mind if I… Lee Sure. Maliczowski Go ahead. Lee I just wrap it up. I haven’t used it for a while. But she’s going to use it to make Christmas cookies. Dingle Yes. I will. Lee You can tell it’s been used. All [laugh] Dingle Lots of biscuits. Maliczowski A lot. Yeah. Biscuit—biscuit [inaudible] and pies. Dingle Biscuits and pies are mainly what it did. French Mmhmm… Lee Mainly it was Daddy’s biscuits. Dingle That’s right. French So when I read the story about this, we got to talking and—and, uh, thought about Well, what made him think to make a rolling pin out of a spoke? Because he worked at a paper factory, correct? All Yes. French So he would have been familiar with all the equipment that you could do this with, uh, milling? It’s called “milling?” Lee Yeah, but he was superintendent of the Crown Paper Company. That’s when they—they printed they, uh, wrappers. That’s when they wrapped fruit. It was individually wrapped for a long time. They don’t do that anymore. They just pack it in boxes and ship it off. But, um, Daddy was there so—and he was in the [American] Legion, and when they went to send the cannon back, he went to help them dismantle it, and that’s when he got the spoke, and, um, that’s what he could do. He could make me a rolling pin, and that was in ‘42. Maliczowski Because everybody needed a rolling pin. All [laugh] Dingle He was also a carpenter, so he had worked with wood in building this house. And if—if you look on the floor, you’ll see there’s designs in the wood. And… Lee And there’s my—my, uh, [inaudible]… Dingle Back in the corner. So he was… Lee That Daddy had built for me, when I was—yeah. French Oh. Lee When I was four or five. Dingle So he was always thinking of things to do with wood and something else to make and something to do, so I think that just came naturally to… French Mmhmm. Dingle To do that. Lee To do the rolling pin. Dingle Something for her. Lee It would go in a cedar chest. All [laugh] Dingle It would fit. Maliczowski It would fit. French So, do you know the story of the cannon? What was the history of this cannon? Was this someth—it was brought back from World War I? Lee Well, yeah. When they built the Legion Hut. Um, I don’t know where they got the cannon. But, um, they wanted a cannon from the First World War. So, I don’t know where they got it. Now they got a cannon out at the other—the other Legion Hut. And I don’t know where they got it. I think they just feel that, you know, it’s history. They had cannons. Unidentified Mmhmm. Lee It’s an old one. It’s got wooden spokes I think. I haven’t gotten out of the car to examine it, but I’ve driven by. French Uh, so, um, what other—do you have other memories of the home front during the war or the end of the war? There’s[sic] certain moments of that period… Lee Oh, I remember end of the war. Oh, there was a parade down on First Street, and I remember being [laughs] in the car. And we was[sic] driving, and my cousins were with me, and everybody was screaming and hollering. And Mama remembered the end of the First World War. And how, um, things were downtown then. Maliczowski Now during this time, didn’t Grandma and Aunt Marty still—didn’t they run the grocery store at that time, during the war? Were they running it? [inaudible]. Lee They came in 1910. Maliczowski No, but did they still have the store in the ‘40s? Lee Yes. Maliczowski Okay. Well, tell them about them having the store and one of the reasons—like, during the war they didn’t have this much[sic] problem with food, because they had a grocery store? Lee Yeah, but they also had rationing, you know. Maliczowski Mmhmm. Lee They rationed, uh, meat. They rationed sugar, and, um—and I do remember that. Maliczowski They rationed shoes. And tell them what happened with you. She has very tiny feet. Lee Oh, yeah. Shoes were rationed. Isn’t that funny? They rationed shoes [laughs]. Oh dear. Maliczowski But she had such a hard time finding shoes that everybody—whenever she would find it they would give her their shoe coup—what were they, uh… Lee Shoe coupon. Maliczowski Shoe coupon, so that she could buy the shoes, because she would—she loved shoes. All [laugh] Lee Yeah. Dingle It was hard for her to find them in her size so if they found a pair that would fit her they… Maliczowski They would have to use somebody else’s coupon to buy her a pair of shoes. French That’s great. That’s great. Did you know soldiers who had—from Sanford—young men of your age? Lee Yes.Yeah. I remember one of the boys in my class, who was killed. He was Fred Dyson[sp]. I remember that. I don’t remember. I don’t remember a lot of them going to war. French And the base being nearby—what was—you mentioned the pilots, uh… Lee Yeah. French Was there—was[sic] there other kinds of connections to the base, besides the kind of social connections? Lee Well, um, several of my friends worked out there. And, um, I know Margie married, er, one of the pilots. And, um, a lot of them, you know—I met some of them through friends that worked there. But, um, we didn’t—I mean, they weren’t there that long, you know. You just see ‘em and I know one time we went to New Smyrna [Beach] with a group, uh, a whole—I mean, it was usually in a group. So… French You mentioned that after the war, how much Sanford changed. You mentioned I think one of—all the building… Lee Oh, yeah. French Construction in this area. Lee Construction started. Houses were built. French And so this little town you grew up in became—started to grow and grow [laughs]. Lee Yeah. And it’s still growing. All [laugh] Maliczowski Sanford was lucky, because it was both on the river and it had the railroad. Lee Yes. Maliczowski So that’s one of the reasons it was able to flourish like it did. And, um, there’s a big hotel downtown—well, now it’s not the hotel anymore, it’s, um, is the New Tribe’s Mission headquarters—world headquarters. It used to be the Mayfair Hotel. And people would come and stay for the winter, and that sort of thing. So it—ya know, it drew a lot of people and brought them here to spend their money in Sanford while they were getting away from the cold. French So, um, you stayed. People have come and people have gone. And you’ve been here, uh, and—why did you stay? Lee This is my home and I want to stay right here. French Uh, you’re surrounded by, uh, a lot of the artifacts of your life. All the great, um… Lee Yeah. French Pieces of furniture and art and… Lee Yeah. Uh huh. And Aunt Marty’s pitcher and bowl when she came in 1910. My grandfather was a doctor in Mount Olive, North Carolina. And when he died, um—he had made a—he bought a small hotel, and he made into a—that’s where he could take patients, and it was like a small hospital. And Aunt Marty worked for him. But then he died and, um, uh, Uncle [James] came down and he was—he’s the one that started the grocery store, and his friend from here was up there. and he told my Uncle James he would sell him half of the grocery store, and give his son the other half, and—if he would come down. So they all decided to come in 1910. Now Mama, and Aunt Ruth, and Grandma stayed up there ‘til they got the house built on Laurel Avenue. It burned down later. And, um, that’s when they came and Mama went to grammar school to the high school. And then they built the new—what was—we went to junior high. And it was the high school, and that’s where Mama graduated in 1913. And so Uncle James had started the grocery store—I mean, he was half-owner. But then his son didn’t like it, and he sold his half [laughs]. So it was [inaudible] and it was all during the war. French And do you have memories of the store? Lee Huh? French Do you have memories or picture of the store? Do you have any photographs of the store? Lee Ya know, it—it’s down—the building is still there, and it’s where The [Sanford] Herald is, right on the corner of Palmetto [Avenue] and First Street. And back then, the city didn’t decorate like they do[sic] now. And every, um, owner of the store would. And I remember Daddy putting— tying the Christmas tree to the lamp post [laughs] and—and decorating it for Aunt Marty. So, because Uncle James died recently, Aunt Marty ran the grocery store, so… French Well, some of these stories—well, the one story that—that the Creative San—well, first I wanted to ask you a little bit about how you, um, came to be interviewed for the Creative Sanford play? Do you know the… Maliczowski Well, I have a friend who was involved in Creative Sanford during both of the productions they’ve made so far, and I went to school with her sister, and so she knew me, and she knew Mama, and she knew that she must have some kind of story that she can tell. And so she said, “We need to interview Luticia.” Lee They came and interviewed me. Maliczowski And yeah. So they came and started talking to her and that was the… Lee [inaudible] Maliczowski Particular story that they decided to go with. French So they didn’t know when they came about the rolling pin. They just… Maliczowski No. They just knew that she had things. All [laugh] Maliczowski And stories and that she had been here her whole life. That she—that she was born here and grew up here. And that’s why they wanted to know her view of—I mean, they asked her lots of questions about lots of things, and this was one of the things they felt that they could incorporate into the play. French Were you surprised that they chose to tell that story? Lee Yes. I was. [laughs] And it was just real neat. And they did it really good[sic]. Unidentified Yes. Lee And—and they—they told ‘em how Daddy did the rolling pin, you know. So we were given front row seats. Maliczowski Yeah. In the original, uh—the first play<a title="">[5]</a> one of mom’s best friends had a story in it. So they—they got so many stories that they couldn’t put them all in the first play. So they put ‘em in—they made a second play.<a title="">[6]</a> And they’re going to have a third one,<a title="">[7]</a> I think. Lee Yeah. French They said they were doing—still doing interviews for… Lee I think they’re doing something now. Maliczowski Yeah. They—they’re getting ready to. French And, um, so the other—I had a third [inaudible] just one other [inaudible] that I forgot in my notes here. Um, um, well, let me ask my—my colleagues here. Other questions that you would like to ask? No? So we, uh, are also interested in this as a family story. So I’ll just step off the couch here for a minute and just have—if I could ask the two of you to join your mom. And we’ll just talk about it as a—this is a family. Oh, wow. Dingle Just if you wanted to see some… French Fantastic. Maliczowski Here, Cath. you sit in the middle and you get to hold the rolling pin. Dingle It’s my rolling pin. French So if you wouldn’t mind introducing yourselves. Maliczowski I’m Linda Maliczowski. I’m the middle child [laughs]. Dingle I’m Cathy Dingle. I’m the oldest. Our brother’s not here. He’s the baby. French And so you, um, were you part of the—the original interview. I know if you were, because you had the connection to your friend. Maliczowski Right. And I live here. French And you live here. Maliczowski In Sanford. French And so, um, for you, um, this is a—a family heirloom. And, um, as you told the story, it—you—your memory of this is not just in a hope chest, but, as, uh something your mom used and… Maliczowski Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean we grew up with her doing that and eventually she told us all about it. But I mean, when someone would say, “Go get the rolling pin,” you knew what to get [laughs] and that was it. We had one rolling pin. Dingle And I really remember mostly biscuits. And pies. Maliczowski Biscuits and pies, because I learned how to do pies. Dingle Yes. And I learned to make a lot of biscuits with it so… French So for you, the memories attached to it are family memories? Not, not World War II, American Legion, home front, sacrifice. Dingle No. It’s Mama baking with it. Using it. Maliczowski She also made donuts. Dingle Donuts. That’s right. Maliczowski We had to roll them out and cut them with the little donut thing. Dingle Cut them and fry them. Yes. French Well, one of the things that that makes me think about is that people cooked like that all the time, and now it’s more rare[sic]. And you have a choice, whether you want to do that. It’s not part of our everyday lives to have a rolling pin but you still, uh—I’m sorry, but who’s getting the rolling pin? Maliczowski Cathy. Dingle Yeah. French You still cook and you… Maliczowski Oh, yes. French So does that make you feel connected in some way through the, you know—through the [inaudible]? Dingle Yes, because, you know, I remember Mama using it and I remember it, you know, in this house. And I remember it in our other house, and my granddaughters will help me use it. So, in fact, one asked me last week, she says, “Are we going to get to make Christmas cookies and use a rolling pin?” I said, “Yes. We are.” All [laugh] Dingle So they’re—they’re used to that. French And, um, do you—do you also have things like recipes and cookbooks, and things like that, that are… Dingle Oh, yes. French We have a student in our class who’s studying cookbooks. It’s actually a historical subject and an interesting one. Dingle Oh [laughs]. Maliczowski There’s so many. Dingle Oh, so many. Yes. French So, uh, one of the things we’ve been thinking about in our class is the connection between personal stories and personal history. And then there’s the community history— Sanford. And then there’s national and world history. And I think that’s what’s unique about this object is that it connects all of them, you know? Maliczowski Yeah. Mmhmm. French So we really thank you so much for sharing that story with us, and sharing your time with us. The only—the other thing is if, if it would be okay with you for us to take still photographs of some of these objects, uh, for inclusion in the exhibit. Maliczowski Sure. French That would be wonderful. Thank you. Dingle No problem. French Do you—do you want anything else that we should talk about on the—the… Orleman No. the recording—I think we’re… Dingle We’re good? Orleman Yeah. French Okay. Very good. Thank you so… One quick question, because we were talking about this before was the, um… Maliczowski Fireless cooker. Dingle Fireless cooker. French Fireless cooker, which is over there. But could you just tell us the story of the fireless… Lee My—my son, um—he, um, went online [clears throat] to find out more about it [clears throat]. And he said that in one of the—years ago, presidents had one in his[sic] house, but I don’t remember. Dingle But they—tell him where this one came from. Lee This one came from, um, Miss Bessie. Dingle Yup Lee And it—well, I already told you. Maliczowski Yeah, but they want to video it. They want to… All [laugh] Lee [laughs] I’m at it again. [clears throat] Well, in 1910, when my aunt came down, when she roomed in Miss Bessy’ house[?]. Her mother—[clears throat] excuse me. Her mother had a boarding house, and she did not cook on a Sunday, so she had the fireless cooker—that one. And, um, she would put the—the—it’s all there. Every piece. And the stones that had the thing to hook and put them in her fire. She had a wood stove. When they got hot, she’d put them in the fireless cooker. And then she would get her food hot on—in the pans, put them in, and close it up, and it would cook all night. And when she came home from church on Sunday, she’d open it up and she could serve it, but she didn’t have to cook. So that’s what—and my husband was fascinated with it. I said, “What do we do with it?” He says[sic], “I don’t care what we do with it. It’s a chest.” So it’s been in the living room in the old house. I told you we were in the French house years ago. French Yes. Lee And that’s where we raised the kids. And Mama was—was still here and my aunts. And, um, [clears throat] so, um—where was I? Dingle You had it in the old house and then you brought it here. Lee Yeah. I had it in the living room over there, and then I brought it here. So the fireless cooker’s always been in the living room. It’s been a piece to show people. Dingle But we never used it. Lee No. never used it. Maliczowski I plan on using it someday. Tell them about, um, how they used to use them during the war. Lee Oh, well, yeah. When Jimmy [Lee] researched it, he said they were used during the First World War—fireless cookers—mainly in tanks, so they could put the food in the cooker, and then they could go where they were going. And they would have the food. Maliczowski Mmhmm. Lee So, uh… Maliczowski We don’t know where they got this one, but we’re glad they did. All [laugh] Maliczowski So… Lee So, but that’s—and they had—had—in fact, I used to get the [inaudible] magazine. And somebody had put theirs in, only it was just a one, but they made one, and they made two, and ours is a three. French Great. Lee Three—whatever. Dingle Three pans [laughs]. Maliczowski Three pots. Dingle Three pots. Lee Yes.Three pots French And you mentioned the French house. Where—what was the address of the French house? Dingle 113 West Fifteenth Street. French Is it still there? Dingle It is. If you go up Oak Avenue—if you’re going up Oak, then you have to go around… Maliczowski You would run into the house. Dingle You would run into the house if you went straight up, but—yeah. Maliczowski My husband and I bought the house from Mom and Dad. And we lived there for quite a few years. We sold it when my son was about 13. French Oh, okay. Maliczowski And, it… Lee Just a minute. Maliczowski Yeah. Do you have the thing from when we sold it? French So this is one of the—the—the same French as French Ave[nue] and… Maliczowski Yeah. French Avenue was his brother. French Oh, okay. Maliczowski There was an A. J., um, Seth and A.J. French. And, um, the man who owned our house was the mayor. I think he was the second mayor. Dingle I think so. Maliczowski Mom might remember, but he was one of the first mayors of Sanford. French Oh, okay. Great. But this was the house that was built by… Maliczowski Right. And my grandmother was living here. French I see. Maliczowski And then when Mom and Dad—when they first got married, we lived over in Orlando and we moved over here when were seven and eight years old. And they found—that house was available so they bought that house. And we were there—the whole family—from when they bought it and then when I sold it, we were there for over 50 years. French Great. Wow. So, uh, this is great. I think, Andrew [Orleman], we can, uh—we’ll wrap up the… Maliczowski Oh, she’s got the, um—yeah. This isn’t what I was thinking but this is—it was on the Sanford our of home so… French Oh, okay. I went two years ago. I didn’t—okay. Lee That’s what it looks like now. French Okay. Lee But it looked like that [inaudible]. Maliczowski Well Mom and Dad, when we were growing up it was [inaudible]… <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Lee’s daughter. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Linda Maliczowski, Lee’s daughter and Dingle’s sister. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Touch and Go. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> Made – Not Bought. </div> <div> <a title="">[7]</a> Remade – Not Bought. </div> </div> 10th Street 1st Street American Legion American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53 American Legion Hall baking cannon cedar chest Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play County League Hudderson Scrap Creative Sanford, Inc. Crown Paper Company Dingle, Cathy fireless cooker First Street Florida State Road 46 French Avenue French, A. J. French, Scot heirloom hope chest ice plant Laurel Avenue Lee, Cathy Lee, Jimmy Lee, Linda Lee, Lutisha "Tish" Legion Hut Maliczowski, Linda Mayfair Hotel New Smyrna Beach NTM Oak Avenue Oaklem, Braley Ogleman, Andrew oral history orlando Palmetto Avenue paper factory rationing rolling pin Sanford scrap metal secretary Seminole Boulevard Seth. A. J. Snow, Paul Spencer SR 46 Tenth Street The Sanford Herald World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e8aa521d3c51256016045535b932f4f9.pdf a502cafbf7cd4aa802ade34cfa20c077 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection Alternative Title Creative Sanford Collection Subject Seminole County (Fla.) Folk plays Sanford (Fla.) Description Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, a play focusing on the people of Sanford and their determination to overcome various obstacles, including the Freeze of 1894-1895, the fall of Sanford's celery industry, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. In the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which is located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Downtown Sanford, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Contributor <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Thompson, Trish Donaldson, Laura Interviewee Lee, Luticia Dingle, Cathy Lee Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Luticia Roberts Lee and Catherine Lee Dingle Alternative Title Oral History, Lee and Dingle Subject Sanford (Fla.) Race relations--Florida Hurricanes--Florida Segregation--Florida Description An oral history of Luticia Lee, with her daughter, Cathy Lee Dingle. Lee was born in Sanford, Florida, where her mother bought a grocery store on First Street at half-interest in 1910. Lee's mother graduated from Sanford High School in 1913 and Lee graduated in 1942, after it was renamed Seminole High School. Her children in the attended the school in the 1960, and her grandson graduated later. Lee met her husband, James Lee, who had just returned from service in the U.S. Army in December of 1945. In September of 1946, the couple married. They had three children and five grandchildren. In this oral history, Lee discusses how they started the tradition of throwing pasture parties, life was like during integration in Sanford, how Jim Crow laws were applied, Lee's old house, and tornadoes and hurricanes that had passed through Sanford. Type Text Source Lee, Luticia and Catherine Lee Dingle. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Laura Donaldson. Celery Soup. July 2012. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida. Requires <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital transcript of original oral history: Lee, Luticia and Catherine Lee Dingle. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Laura Donaldson. Celery Soup. July 2012. Audio record available. Celery Soup. Coverage East 3rd Street and South Palmetto Avenue, Sanford, Florida West 15th Street and South Oak Avenue, Sanford, Florida American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53, Sanford, Florida Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida Creator Lee, Luticia Dingle, Cathy Lee Thompson, Trish Donaldson, Laura Contributor Román-Toro, Freddie Date Created 2012-07 Format application/pdf Extent 175 KB Medium 17-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Provenance Originally created by Trish Thompson, Laura Donaldson, Luticia Lee, and Cathy Lee Dingle. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Curator Roman-Toro, Freddie Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>." Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/. Litwack, Leon F. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/37981894" target="_blank">Trouble in Mind: Black Southerners in the Age of Jim Crow</a>. New York: Knopf, 1998. Newton, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/47136480" target="_blank">The Invisible Empire: The Ku Klux Klan in Florida</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2001. Taylor, Tate, et al. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/748435864" target="_blank">The Help</a>. Burbank, Calif: Touchstone Home Entertainment, 2011. Williams, John M., Iver W. Duedall, and John M. Williams. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/47995910" target="_blank">Florida Hurricanes and Tropical Storms, 1871-2001</a>. Gainesville, Fla: University of Florida Press, 2002. Winsboro, Irvin D. S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/797855859" target="_blank">South, New South, or Down South? Florida and the Modern Civil Rights Movement</a>. Morgantown, W. Va: West Virginia University Press, 2009. Transcript Thompson So, if you would like to give us the story of how you got to Sanford. Lee I was born here. Thompson How did your oldest relative get to Sanford? Lee My grandmother, after my grandfather died in Mount Olive, North Carolina—she had four girls and two boys. And Mr. Nathan Garner from Sanford was a friend, and he was visiting when my grandfather died. And he had a grocery store down here, so my grandmother bought half interest, and they came in 1910. My oldest aunt didn’t come, but then the next one, Aunt Marty [Roberts]—she came and she roomed at Miss Bessie Long’s. Do you know Miss Bessie Long? Her house was on [North] Oak Avenue right across from the park. The Higgins’ house was next door and Aunt Marty roomed there. And my uncle roomed in Captain Mark’s house which was on [East] Third [Street] and [South] Palmetto [Avenue]. They had the grocery store on First Street. And then Mr. Garner’s son didn’t want to be in the grocery store, so Uncle James [Roberts] bought him out and changed the name to Roberts’ Grocery. Mother was in the first class to graduate from Sanford High [School] in 1913. And I graduated in 1942 and my children graduated in the [19]60s. and then my grandson graduated, so there were four generations that graduated. They changed the name from Sanford High to Seminole High [School]. That’s how we got here. Thompson Now did you work in the store? Lee No. I never worked, except at home. Right after I got out of high school, I worked at the ice plant<a title="">[1]</a> for a while, but I didn’t work there too long. I got married. James [Lee] went to Stetson [University]. He got back from the [United States] Army in December 1945. Our first son was born in DeLand, when he was going to Stetson. Donaldson How did you meet? Lee His sister lived in Palmetto, right behind us. And she was a friend of Mama’s. When he came back from the war, I met him and it worked. Thompson How long have you lived in this house? Lee Mom and Daddy built it when I was three years old, but I just lived here ‘til I was married. And then James and I—after Mama died, we owned the house over on [West] 15th [Street] and [South] Oak and that’s where we raised our children. After Mama died, we moved back here. I’ve been here ever since. This house was built in 1926. It’s 85. It’s younger than me [laughs]. Thompson Well, it isn’t holding up as well as you. Lee It might be doing better [laughs]. Donaldson So how long did y’all go steady before you got married? Lee From December ’45 to September ’46. You know, he had been overseas for three years. He was ready to live [laughs]. Go to school and have a family. I was too. Thompson When you live through such a traumatic thing as the [World] War [II], you learn what’s important. Was he in the Pacific [Theater]? Lee India and China. He was over there, and my brother was in the Pacific too. Then when the Second World War started, my daddy was the shop superintendent of the Crown Paper Company, when they used to print all the paper that they used to wrap all the oranges in. and then when the war started in ’42, they asked for all scrap metal to be sent back. And Daddy was in the [American] Legion [Campbell-Lossing Post 53]. And there was a cannon in front, and Daddy helped dismantle it, and that’s when he got spoke[sic] to make my rolling pin with. See, I graduated in ’42, and that’s when you always got a hope chest [laughs]. And mother was crocheting me a bedspread. Since Mama was making the bedspread, Daddy wanted to make something to go in my hope chest, so he had that spoke so—and they had a shop in the Crown Paper Company, so he could make my rolling pin. Thompson So your daddy made that rolling pin? Is it signed? Lee No. I wanted to get a picture of the cannon, and I had a hard time. But I went down to the museum, and I started finding things, and I’ve got quite a bit of information on it. Thompson Did they turn that cannon in during World War II for the metal? Lee Yeah. For the metal and it had been used in the First World War and they put it in front of the [Legion] Hut when they built it. Thompson Well, tell me how your father got involved in the legal system—in the jails, corrections… Lee Well, it was my husband. Well, he graduated from Stetson with a business degree, but then he went to Rollins [College] and got a Master’s [degree] in Criminal Justice. When he was in the Army, he was in the military police and was interested in all that. When the Parole Commission advertised for people, he applied, took the test, and passed, and was hired. Then we went to Orlando for a little while. And then when an opening came in Sanford, he wanted to raise our family here, so we came here and then he was with the state for 32 years. Thompson Did he ever have any parolee problems—coming to the house? Lee No. My husband was very good. People liked him. I remember after he was retired, and we were living here, we wanted to put a fence down the side in between the houses. And they said we couldn’t put a chain-link fence, and he went down and talked to somebody, and he said, “Well, you know, we wouldn’t put just an old chain-link fence. we’d put a green one down. We could put a barbed wire one down. It’s not prohibited.” The man said, “What?” And he said, “Yeah. I looked it up.” We got our fence [laughs]. It’s a nice fence. In fact, the people that live there, when they came home, they didn’t even notice it, ‘cause it was green and it was pretty, you know. Anyway, the head of one of the departments said, “Mr. Lee, you don’t recognize me do you?” And James said, “No. I’m sorry. Should I know you?” And he said, “Well, I’m one of your success stories, and you told me…” He was very young. “I should think about what I wanted to be and start working toward it, and then try to get an education and become that. and here I am. I’m the head of the department.” I don’t know what department it was or anything, but he came home and said, “You know, I didn’t recognize—he’s a man now. He was a boy then. That was great.” And another time—this was funny—is when the post office was Downtown. I still call it the post office. Not the one on Lakefront. the one on First Street. Thompson Where the Historic [Sanford] Welcome Center is now. Okay. Lee He came out to the car and he had the funniest look on his face. and I said, “What’s the matter?” He said, “I just got a Father’s Day card from this elderly man that was so old, he didn’t have his regular birthday. So Daddy figured out and got him a birthday…” And he said, “This is your birthday.” So he sent Daddy a Father’s Day card [laughs]. He had a lot of stories. I don’t remember too many of them, but he did have a lot. He said he was going to write a book after he retired, but he never had time. Donaldson Now how many kids do you have? Lee Three. Cathy [Lee Dingle], Linda [Lee Maliczowski], and Jimmy [Lee]. They were all under three—we had one, two, three. He retired and we’ve enjoyed it. And then he got sick, but everything’s okay. Donaldson How many grandkids do you have? Lee Well, we have five now. And then we had four great grandchildren. And when we add the in-laws, including me, there’s 18 of us. You know, it multiplies. Donaldson And do you get together? Lee Yeah. Maybe we don’t get all together at the same time. But Mendelson’s getting married, but it’ll be about a year. He just got engaged. He’s a nurse at the Florida Memorial [Medical Center] hospital in Daytona [Beach]. They grew up so fast. I’ve had several parties here in the yard, and she wants to have an engagement party in the yard now. In the ‘70s and ‘80s, [inaudible] Sawyer’s had a pasture out. And they had horses in it, but the horses were not where they had the parties. but they had what we call “pasture parties.” Donaldson Mm-hmm, I went to them. Lee You did? Wonderful. Anyway, it was a lot of fun. But then we all got old—they don’t have pasture parties after you get old. Thompson Describe a pasture party. What is a pasture party? Lee Well, it was a pasture. And then Blake [Jones]—Joyce’s husband—he had a grill out there and a real small trailer and electricity. And he built picnic tables and a thing over it, and had a shed that he could keep chairs in. and when we went, we all took something—potluck. The men would cook on the grill and it was a lot of fun. Thompson Did people ride horses or did you play games? Lee No. The kids—but I’m talking about the old folks. We didn’t ride horses. We just talked and laughed and had a good time. Then we lost quite a few. And last summer, we lost a couple: Elizabeth Steele and Joyce Adams Jones. And I thought it would be a lot of fun to get all the old people back together, so I had a backyard pasture party. But I didn’t want anybody bringing potluck, so I had [inaudible] catering. I said, “We’re too old to try to cook and bring things.” We took a lot of pictures. we really had a good time. Thompson When you had these, was it for Fourth of July or Memorial Day or things like that or spontaneous? Lee Spontaneous. It was always on the weekend, because some people were still working. and it was a lot of fun. I had pictures of when we were young and we took pictures at the backyard party. Thompson Have you all followed the tradition? Dingle Well, she had one here in her yard recently. Lee It was in November. And now they’re all saying, “When are you having the next one?” Well, our helpers had to get over the last one, because I couldn’t do that much they were having to do it. Thompson So it’s gone down to another generation. The leaders of the pasture party. Lee Anyway, those of us that were in it had a wonderful time. Benny and Louis Austin, Gladys and Doug Stenstrom, Joyce and Blake, of course. And Margie and Leo [inaudible], and [inaudible] and Charlie Smith. Ken and Mary McIntosh were here. Paddy [inaudible], Dr. Bill White. Even when James and I were at the beach and they had a condo[minium], and upstairs they had a meeting room. I called all the folks and said, “I’m having a beach pasture party.” so for a couple of years, we had a beach pasture party [laughs]. They’d all come over to the beach and go up to the 7th floor… Thompson It sounds to me like you’re the social director of the group. Lee No. I really wasn’t. But I did have the extra parties where everybody came and brought something. but Joyce and Blake and Margie really started it. They had the real pasture. I never had a real pasture. Did it in the backyard or the beach. It was Benny[?] and Phil Logan and… Thompson All of these people that you’re naming—when your husband—when you were in Orlando, and he said, “I want us to move to Sanford and raise a family here,” were all his friends here? What is Sanford to you all? Lee Sanford’s home. We grew up here, we went to school here, and most of these people we went to school with. Thompson And did they leave and come back also? Lee Some of them left and came back. Now, James and I weren’t gone long. We were at Stetson for three years and then… Dingle I was in the third grade when we came back here. I was eight. We were probably gone 10 or 11 years. Lee But we were always coming back. You know, Mother and Daddy were right here in this house, so we were here a lot—most every week. And never felt like we had gone away. He did want to live here and raise our children. Thompson How many people were in Sanford when you came back? When I opened my restaurant in 1981 there were 20,000. Dingle Really, just 20,000? Lee That’s a lot more people. Thompson But it still has that small-town feel to me. The people we’ve talked to—I’m trying to get that feel of what was Sanford that brought everybody here. Lee Well, like Margie and Leo [inaudible]. He was in the Navy. They were gone a long time, but then they came back. but then a lot of people stayed anyway. Joyce and Blake went to California, but then they came back. Dingle I think, as time goes on, when you’re younger, you want to leave and go to another town. And then you go to some big place and it’s not very friendly and a lot harder to get around. and you feel uncomfortable and you say, “Sanford wasn’t as bad as I thought it was. Let’s go home.” Lee And you know everybody. Sometimes I go to town and I don’t know anybody and that feels funny. Our group—all of us—us pasture parties—we get together all the time. Thompson Gladys moved to Jacksonville, right? Does she ever get back down? Lee Yeah. She comes down. Of course, she came down when Ralph [inaudible] died. He’s her cousin. She’s coming down in April. Joyce and I have a birthday party for about four of us, but we couldn’t do it this time. But we’re going to do it—I think George said we were going to do it in June. Gladys couldn’t come for a while. She was sick, but she’s okay now. and we’re going to have a belated birthday party for Linda Roth. Linda Roth was a pasture girl [laughs]. Linda is Leroy Roth’s wife. They were pasture party people. Linda has moved down to where her daughter lives, but she’s coming back. Dingle She just moved right before Christmas right? Lee Yeah. It’s hard to believe she’s not sitting in church every Sunday. She’s going to church down there. Thompson Now, your kids were too young to have gone through integration of… Dingle We were the class. Ingrid was the first person to be integrated, and she was in our class—Ingrid Burton. We were in junior high school. I remember pulling her across the street. she did not want to come. She was the only—in that whole school. We were upstairs in science class looking out the window, and they were pretty much pulling her across the street—her parents. She was the one they chose to be integrated. I’m sure she was very smart. She’s a schoolteacher out in Lake Mary. She came back here. There were only several black kids in our graduating class. Maybe about five or six in the whole class, I believe. Thompson Of high school? Dingle Of the class of ’68. There weren’t that many. Donaldson Because integration was ’71. Forced integration was ’71. Dingle It was either 8th or 9th grade when she came. so she was with us for about five years. I was on the yearbook staff and I was the editor my senior year. I don’t think there was a black in the senior class, because integration started in my class. Henry June—I remember him. Lee That must have been hard for those children. Dingle Ronald Thomas—I didn’t know him. At least Henry had someone. There were only two black students in the senior class of ’67. Thompson Did you have any black friends or know any blacks? Lee No. see, at that time, my mother always had help. We always had maids. And as I had my children, I had Ines. She worked for me for 25 years. We’re still friends. I send her a birthday card with a check and a Christmas card, and she calls me. When I lost James, she came here and she came to his funeral. Thompson And you didn’t have any of the prejudice? That is wonderful. With what we’re going through now,<a title="">[2]</a> there’s a lot of talk. Lee And see, to me, that’s not Sanford. I feel terrible that they are misrepresenting things, and they’re not telling the truth about Sanford, because I had never known that. When Charles and I were little… Dingle There were eight in our junior class. That’s Ingrid. I don’t know if they all stayed and graduated, but Viola Jordan—we were in PE [physical education] together. Lee My brother was two years younger than me, and he’s been gone 20 years. But Mama had—and he loved old Catherine, and she used to take him down to the lakefront to fish before he ever started to school. We were close to those that were there and worked for us. Thompson Where did they live? Lee They lived either in Georgetown or Goldsboro[?]. Now, when Aunt Ruth lived on Second and [inaudible], there was a two-story house. I don’t remember why it was built. It was used—downstairs had been for the wash. And then there was the upstairs that we had as a playroom. But then later, when we were in high school, Aunt Ruth had a maid that lived downstairs. It wasn’t like that movie—I haven’t seen it but… Thompson The Help? Lee Yeah. I haven’t seen it, but Cathy saw it. She said that somebody asked her if she knew anything like that, and she said she never knew anything like that in Sanford. We didn’t. Donaldson It wasn’t an accurate portrayal is what I heard. Thompson It was in some areas. Lee See, we’re not Mississippi or Alabama. Thompson You go to Mississippi, you go to Alabama—this is your story. But my mother’s from Mississippi, and her mother had a boarding house. And they had black maids that came in, and they literally lived in shotgun houses. You could shoot a gun straight through the house and go out the back door. Lived across the tracks. Absolutely, there was the line. That was very much in the small town of Mississippi, when I was a child. It was absolutely amazing to me, because I was a Navy brat. Born in the Dominican Republic. The only white child anywhere around and lived in California and New York. You know, very cosmopolitan compared to Mississippi. Yeah. but in Tennessee, we didn’t have that at all. Lee Cathy said that. She saw it with some of her friends and she said, “Was it like that in Sanford?” She said, “No.” Dingle Like what? Drinking in bathrooms? Thompson Separate bathrooms and drinking fountains. Dingle Well, I remember as a kid in Orlando going to Sears[, Roebuck & Company] through the back door. We would park in one parking lot, and go back and there was a water fountain. one was black and one was white. Lee I do remember water fountains. Dingle They called it “colored” then. I remember we’d go in there, there’d be nobody there, and there’d be three of us and we all wanted a drink of water. And we were wanting to go over there and we were told that we couldn’t go over there. that that wasn’t our fountain. And I remember going, “But why not?” Thompson Did they have a fountain guard? Dingle We were just told not to use that. “Here. this is yours.” “But there’s three of us and I want a drink.” Lee I do remember it was separate there, but not in homes. You had a maid. She used your bathroom. Thompson And of course, I guess you didn’t notice that they wouldn’t be in touch at drug stores. They couldn’t come through the front door. They had to go to the back door to get their prescriptions. Lee I didn’t know that. No. Thompson They wouldn’t let them. They wouldn’t serve them if they came in through the front door. Dingle I do remember that they had their own entrance in the movie theater. There was a wall. There was the downstairs part and then the balcony had a wall in between, and on one side, it was this section, and on the other, there was a door, and that’s where the blacks would come in. The theater was divided. We thought that was so weird. Thompson We never had that. Donaldson Well, you see, this is what she and I were talking about. So many people were saying, “It just didn’t seem right.” and it seemed like such an injustice. How did it last so long? And how were there that many people who thought it was the right thing to do if everybody I meet says, “I felt like it was an injustice”? Dingle It’s just like when any law is made. It’s easy to make the law, but it’s hard to change it. These were laws. It was just, “Put the wall up.” Thompson Really and truly, I’m going to give us the credit for it, because I think men would just go along. And I think the women finally stood up and said, “I want my friend to be here.” We weren’t the militant—we were quiet and easing into it. The men were militant. With everything that’s going on right now, we’re seeing more openness. We’re seeing more blacks downtown. We’re seeing more people speaking to each other. I was at the post office—the guy in front of me was black. The person behind me was black. They all looked me in the eye and smiled at me. Said, “Hello.” and I said, “Hello” back. I don’t know if they wouldn’t have at another time or maybe I’m more sensitive to it now, because of what’s happened. Now, let’s go to the past a little bit. Can you tell about being in the [inaudible] Club? Lee Well, I wasn’t in the [inaudible] Club. I was just there. Gladys invited us. I took my picture with them, but I wasn’t one of them as a youngster. I think they were younger than me. Gladys was younger. I think Gladys was 12 years younger than Florence [Stenstrom], Violet, and me. Thompson Now was Florence Doug’s first wife? Lee Yes. And they were the first pasture party people. After she died, he married Patty [Stenstrom] and she was a pasture party person. Donaldson Which grade school did you go to? Lee I went to Southside Grammar School, junior high, and then high school. Donaldson Break that up. How many years did you go to Southside? Lee Four years—two. Junior high was two and high school was four years. Donaldson Who was your first grade teacher? I’m just curious, because my dad and I had the same one. Lee At the time, she was Ms. Chapman, but then she got married and she was Mrs. [inaudible], and they belong to our church too. When we moved back over here, she was substituting. She had a kindergarten, and the children would stay with Mama, and Mrs. [inaudible] would let them come and stay in her kindergarten. It didn’t matter if they were students or not. She loved us. Thompson Can you think of the scariest time you ever had? Gladys tells the story of how frightened she got when she saw the Ku Klux Klan on the corner of Melonville [Avenue]. Lee I remember one time, Jimmy was sick. They had to do a bone marrow—I remember Cathy went with me. Cathy always wanted to be a doctor. She’d even keep her eyes open whenever the doctor would do something to her. I’d always close my eyes. I remember that I couldn’t talk. I couldn’t say anything. I remember I was listening—that they were saying that they had to do the bone marrow test. and after they did it, it was alright. His white blood count was normal in the bone marrow test. I remember being scared then. I wasn’t scared when I had the kids. Of course, I was awake when Cathy was born, because all three were Caesarian [sections]. But hers had gone too far, so they had a tent in front of me, and the doctor asked me, “Do you feel that?” And I said, “Yes. it feels like you’re running a pen down my tummy.” When I heard her cry, he started doing something and I said, “Are you getting another one?” This was 67 years ago. I didn’t know anything back then. He said, “No. it just takes longer to sew you up than to cut you open.” I can remember all that very plainly. I always thought everything was going to be alright. Thompson What’s your happiest memory? What memories always make you feel great? Lee Getting married, having all my children, moving back to Sanford. I was thrilled. And buying that house over on 15th Street. The dining room was fantastic. It had beamed ceilings, and stained-glass windows, and a built in buffet all the way around it. The floor was striped—dark wood, black and gold. Thompson Like inlaid wood? Oh, man. Lee And I remember James said, “Honey, we can’t heat this house.” It had 12-foot ceilings, you know. And I said, “Honey, that’s alright. I’ll put my coat on and I’ll go sit in the dining room and say, ‘This is why we bought the house.’” That was a happy time. Thompson And how long did you live there? Lee Well, honey, it felt like I lived there longer. It was just 18 years, but the kids all went to school and college, the girls got married, I lost Mom and Daddy. You know, so much happened. I’ve been here since ’79. Dingle It was ’78 or ’79, because I got married in ’76. and then we bought the house from them when they moved back here. We sold the house about eight years ago. Lee You see, they had it for longer than we did, but it seemed like we lived there longer, because so much happened. It just seemed like I’ve been here since then, and I’ve had all the grandchildren, but of course, we had grandchildren over there. You lived there like 27 years. Dingle And before that. Lee And you lived there before that, because you grew up there. Thompson And did you love the dining room just as much? Dingle Oh, yeah. It was a great house. It was huge though. I have a son and he is now 23, and he was a big person. And we were gone all the time. Because of baseball and all these things and it was just too big of a house to take care of, and we decided it was time to find a smaller place. Lee You see, I was there all the time, and all the neighbor kids were there and my kids too. I had Ines. she worked. Dingle And when Joshie [Dingle] was little, there weren’t any kids in the neighborhood. We had to import them. Lee If they ever put it on the [Sanford Holiday] Tour [of Historic Homes], y’all should go. I can’t go back. I just don’t want to see it again. Dingle She means since it’s not in the family anymore. It’s a beautiful house, and they’ve done a lot of work since they got it. Lee It was 14 rooms and look how many outside doors. If I was there by myself, I could not live there by myself, like I can here. Dingle I can. It was easy. Lee I remember when James and I wanted to move back here, Linda said, “If you ever sell this place, I go with the house.” I remember her saying that. Dingle So I bought the house instead. I always said the house had a protective blanket over it. It was protected. Thompson It just felt that way. Dingle I could walk through the house blindfolded. I would walk through it in the dark with no problem. I knew where I was going. When the tornado hit here, I was out of town when it happened, and Daddy called me from here. I was visiting a friend in Washington, and Daddy said, “You need to come home. The tornado came.” that was when Sarah [Dingle] was born, or about 35 years ago. Thompson Would this be in ’83? The real bad hailstorm… Donaldson The hailstorm was in ’83. The tornado was in the ‘90s. Lee The tornado was later. Thompson I think they were at the same time, because I was looking at the sky and it was green. Dingle It was a hailstorm, but it was also a tornado. Lee It went all the way around the house, because we had to have all the windows and screens replaced. Dingle Yeah, but that was here. Over there, we went back and nothing, except some of the roof, was—a friend of mine, Cindy, was staying in the house when I was gone, and she left work. She said she drove home and there was stuff all over the place. it had been getting bad. She thought, “Man, I’ve got to get in that house all by myself and it’s dark.” She first went in and didn’t try to turn the lights on, because she knew there wouldn’t be any. and then she walked in the room and forgot and turned the light on and they were all on. We didn’t lose power. we didn’t lose anything. Donaldson And that’s Cindy Slaten Lee. Thompson What about the hurricanes? Were you living in that house when they had the four… Dingle I remember living there during Hurricane Donna. That was when we were kids. I was living there when—I remember that I cooked everything in my freezer, because I was afraid it was going to go bad, because we were going to lose power. and then it didn’t go bad and I had to have all these people over to eat all the food. I remember that was the only time we boarded windows, because we always taped windows. But it was supposed to be bad, and that house is three feet off the ground and then the windows are humongous. we went and got plywood and boarded up that house. It was just me and my husband, and I was there holding the boards, and then the hurricane never came. But I would rather be prepared. I was in the other house when the other four came. They weren’t fun. Lee But, you see, in this house, the worst we had was when there was a hailstorm and it went all around the house. When it comes to hurricanes, I never worried. This is a well-built house. Dingle I made her come to my house during those four hurricanes, and the next time, she said, “I’ll stay home. You have to come to my house next time.” Lee You know, when I was little, I remember telling Daddy, “I’m scared somebody will come.” And my Daddy would say, “Honey, don’t worry. If anybody comes, as soon as morning comes, and they see you, they’ll bring you right back.” Donaldson Tell her the story about the pond. Lee Well, my Daddy built the pond in the ‘30s. My mama wanted it, and we went to Daytona and got the Kokino[sp] rock, and it’s still there around the pond. Heidi has to take care of it by herself. She’s got three lots. I’ve just got two. She comes over and takes care of my pond. It’s got fish, water lilies, and I’ve got stuff blooming in the pond. In the early ‘30s, you might find more ponds around. They were popular. People liked to have them. Mama’s fish were tame. Mine aren’t tame. Mama could put her finger in the water and wiggle it and the fish would come. When I come by the pond, mine hide. Dingle Well, maybe because they think that you’re going to eat them like the owl did. Heidi has an owl that lives in her backyard and he’s eaten some of the fish. Lee It’s a natural habitat over there. It’s a shame she isn’t really out in the woods, you know. She’s got a plaque from the state that says her backyard is a habitat. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Rand Yard Ice House. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> The trial of George Michael Zimmerman for the fatal shooting of Travyon Benjamin Martin on February 26, 2012. </div> </div> 15th Street 1st Street 3rd Street African Americans American Legion American Legion Campbell-Lossing Post 53 Benny Austin Benny Logan Bessie Long Bill White Blake Jones C-sections Caesarian sections cannons Carlie Smith Catherine Lee Catherine Lee Dingle Cathy Dingle Cathy Lee Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Chapman China Cindy Slaten Cindy Slaten Lee Creative Sanford, Inc. criminal justice Crown Paper Company DeLand desegregation Douglas Stenstrom Downtown Sanford Elizabeth Steele Fifteenth Street First Street Florence Stenstrom Gladys Stenstrom groceries grocery Henry June Higgins Historic Sanford Welcome Center hope chests Hurricane Donna hurricanes India Ingrid Burton integration James Lee James Roberts Jimmy Lee Joshie Dingle Joyce Adams Joyce Adams Jones Ken McIntosh KKK Ku Klux Klan Legion Hut Leroy Roth Linda Roth Lnda Lee Louis Austin Luticia Lee Luticia Roberts maids Mark Marty Mary McIntosh Mendelson metal drive metal drives military police Nathan Garner Oak Avenue oral history orlando Pacific Theater Palmetto Avenue Parole Commission pasture party Patty Stenstrom Phil Logan ponds post offices potlucks race relations Rand Yard Ice House Roberts rolling pin Rollins College Ronald Thomas Sanford Sanford High School Sanford Post Office Sarah Dingle Sawyer scrap metals segregation Seminole High School Southside Grammar School Stetson University The Help Tish Lee Tish Roberts tornadoes Trish Thompson veterans Viola Jordan World War I World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/8e236d9890987bd86e16b0a0d718f46b.pdf a437e74e9da71bed4e3d27e5917bca64 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection Alternative Title Orlando Philharmonic Collection Subject Philharmonic orchestra series Orchestras Music--Florida Musicians--United States Orlando (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. The Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, located at 812 East Rollins Street Suite 300 in Orlando, was inspired by the closing of the Florida Symphony in 1993. The orchestra performs in more than 125 concerts each season. In June of 2013, the Philharmonic made plans to purchase the Plaza Live, located at 425 North Bumby Avenue in downtown Orlando, for office space, a rehearsal hall, a music library, and a music hall. Contributor <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> External Reference "<a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. http://orlandophil.org/. "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/145" target="_blank">Classical Collection</a>, Central Florida Music History Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee Brodie, Lyman A. Duration 3 minutes and 49 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Lyman Brodie Alternative Title Oral History, Brodie Subject Orlando (Fla.) Philharmonic orchestra series Orchestras Music--Florida Anniversaries Musicians--United States Trumpeters Trumpet players--United States Music education Description Episode in the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra's 20th Anniversary video series, chronicling the orchestra's history in Central Florida. This episode features an interview with Lyman Brodie, Principal Trumpet and board member. Topics in the video include an anecdote about outdoor concert, the earliest days of the OPO, educational programs, venues, performing with John Williams and other experiences with the orchestra, music played by the Philharmonic, and the role of orchestra members as community members. In addition to the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Lyman A. Brodie performs for the Dallas Wind Symphony and the Black Music Repertory Ensemble. He also is the Associate Dean of the College of Arts and Humanities and a Professor of Music at the University of Central Florida (UCF). Previous positions that Brodie has held at UCF include Chair of the Department of Music and President of the University Wide Counsel of Chairs and Chairmen of the Campus Review for the Strategic Planning Initiative. Additionally, Brodie has served as a national grant review panelist for the National Endowment for the Arts Music Program, an elected board member of Chamber Music Directors of the Orlando Philharmonic, an Advisory Board member of the Arts Presenters, and a voting member of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences. The Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, located at 812 East Rollins Street Suite 300 in Orlando, was inspired by the closing of the Florida Symphony in 1993. The orchestra performs in more than 125 concerts each season. In June of 2013, the Philharmonic made plans to purchase the Plaza Live, located at 425 North Bumby Avenue in downtown Orlando, for office space, a rehearsal hall, a music library, and a music hall. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:13 Trumpeter Lyman Brodie performing 0:00:46 Anecdote about outdoor concert 0:01:25 Earliest days of the OPO 0:01:40 Educational programs and venues 0:02:28 Performing with John Williams and other experiences with the orchestra 0:02:53 Music played by the Philharmonic 0:01:45 Closing credits Abstract In celebration of the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra's 20th Anniversary season, this video series chronicles the orchestra's two decades of history in Central Florida. In this episode, Principal Trumpet and board member Lyman Brodie talks about his role in the orchestra. This video was produced by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown and Lisa Mills with the guidance of Stella Sung and Emily Lindahl. Type Moving Image Source Original 3-minute and 49-second video by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills: "<a href="http://youtu.be/v04lmXY0TtM" target="_blank">The Orlando Phil's 20th Anniversary | Lyman Brodie, Principal Trumpet</a>." <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, October 3, 2012: Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. Coverage Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida Creator Gennaro, Joe Brown, Timothy G. Mills, Lisa Publisher <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Contributor Brodie, Lyman A. Sung, Stella Lindahl, Emily Date Created 2012 Date Copyrighted 2012-10-03 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Medium 3-minute and 49-second video Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills and published by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Loan Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> External Reference "<a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. http://orlandophil.org/. "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil. "<a href="http://music.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=10" target="_blank">Lyman Brodie</a>." Music Department, College of Arts & Humanities, University of Central Florida. http://music.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=10. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/v04lmXY0TtM" target="_blank">Oral History of Lyman Brodie</a> Transcript Brodie We were doing a—an outdoor concert—a park concert. And I honestly can't remember exactly where it was, but the interesting thing about it was it started raining. I mean, downpour. And, uh, instead of us stopping the program, uh—I remember Andy Lane<a title="">[1]</a> was conducting the concert and he invited the audience to come under the tent [laughs]. And so we had the entire audience that was out there. Instead of being in the rain, they were under the tent with the orchestra. And we continue playing the concert [laughs].’ The, um—the early days, of course, um, were pretty tough, uh, because we didn't have a home. Um, we did concerts in various venues around the city. Um, we, um, started of course by doing programs to—of educational quality. Both for young people's concerts, and for the opera, and for the ballet. And, um—and we started by doing those kinds of service-related kinds of things and then programs that were, uh, basically, um fee-based. So we weren't doing subscription programs as such at the very beginning. And, um, as we grew, we start doing more those kinds of things, but the venues changed quite a bit for the first three years. I think it was not until the third or fourth year that we actually were able to mount a problem in the performing arts center—Bob Carr [Performing Arts Centre]. Performing with John Williams for the opening of the Harry Potter theme park, you know, was a real thrill. There have been many, many, many great experiences performing with the Orlando Philharmonic. The, uh—the same music that we look at in Orlando is the same music that the performers look at a New York [City, New York] in Chicago[, Illinois], and Dallas[, Texas], and Los Angeles[, California], in Berlin[, Germany], and Vienna[, Austria]. Um, when we perform [Gustav] Mahler, or [Johann] Strauss, or [Sergei] Prokofiev, or [Dmitri] Shostakovich, those are the same parts everyone are performing all over the world. The members of the orchestra are members of the community. Um, we’ve been able to, fortunate enough to told a number of additions and—and bring in some really, really good performers, so we're really fortunate for that. And all of those people have become part on the community as well. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Andrew Lane. </div> </div> Date Issued 2012-10-03 Has Format Original 3-minute and 49-second video by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills: "<a href="http://youtu.be/v04lmXY0TtM" target="_blank">The Orlando Phil's 20th Anniversary | Lyman Brodie, Principal Trumpet</a>." <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, October 3, 2012. http://youtu.be/v04lmXY0TtM. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. 20th Anniversary board members Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre Brodie, Lyman Harry Potter Lane, Andrew Mahler, Gustav music music education musicians OPO orchestra orlando Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra philharmonic orchestra Principal Trumpet Prokofiev, Sergei Rollins Street Shostakovich, Dmitri Strauss, Johann trumpet trumpet player trumpeter Twentieth Anniversary Universal Studios Florida Unviersal's Wizarding World of Harry Potter Williams, John Wizarding World of Harry Potter https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/23cee619e48419169ea1f645a27a566f.pdf b7a6d7466583d7bbf2c25d4c15fc488b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection Description As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress. Contributor <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida Alternative Title CVHP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida United States. Army Army United States. Navy Navy United States. Air Force Air Force United States. Marine Corps Marine Corps Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Jacksonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Honolulu, Hawaii Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Great Lakes, Illinois Long Island, New York Newport, Rhode Island Norfolk, Virginia Germany Qaasuitsup, Greenland Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland Azores Islands, Portugal Mediterranean Sea Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Ennis, Marc Interviewee Hazen, Kendra Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Marc Ennis Alternative Title Oral History, Ennis Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) Navy Simulation Description An oral history interview of Marc Ennis, who joined the U.S. Navy in December of 1990 and attended Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for boot camp at age 17. After boot camp, he attended Electronic Warfare training at Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center in Pensacola, Florida, and reported to his first ship, USS Gunston Hall, at Little Creek, Virginia. After three and a half years, Ennis trained at aircrew school in Pensacola and then Millington, Tennessee, to become an Aviation Warfare Sensor Operator and rescue swimmer for Sikorsky SH-60/MH-60 Seahawk helicopters. He also joined the fleet replacement squadron aircrew for Helicopter Squadron 1 in Jacksonville, and then reported to his first fleet squadron, Helicopter Squadron 5 (HS-5), also in Jacksonville. After completing his service for HS-5, Ennis reported to the helicopter wing as an instructor. After three years instructing, he transferred to Naval Air Facility Atsugi in Yamato and Ayase, Japan, for sea duty with Helicopter Squadron 14. This interview was conducted by Kendra Hazen and includes topics such as Ennis' background and family, RTC Orlando, his Navy life after training, Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD), and the simulation industry in Central Florida. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:02:40 Family service members 0:04:12 Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) 0:08:08 Daily life at RTC 0:13:05 Classes and training 0:19:08 Social life 0:22:14 Co-educational training and Competition Week 0:24:18 Instructors 0:25:57 Marching and proudest moments 0:29:03 The Grinder and the USS Blue Jacket 0:33:54 Graduation 0:36:14 Navy career after RTC Orlando 0:42:49 Assignment with the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD) in Orlando 0:46:29 Simulation at NAWCTSD 0:53:22 Future of the simulation industry in Central Florida 0:56:03 Most valuable lessons learned in Navy 0:58:58 Photographs 1:03:31 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Marc Ennis Interview conducted by Kendra Hazen on February 22, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Ennis, Marc</a>. Interviewed by Kendra Hazen, February 22, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014894, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 1- hour and 47-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Ennis, Marc</a>. Interviewed by Kendra Hazen, February 22, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014894, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Recruit Training Center, Orlando, Florida Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center, Pensacola, Florida Jacksonville, Florida Naval Air Facility Atsugi, Yamato-Ayase, Japan Creator Ennis, Marc Hazen, Kendra Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-02-22 Date Issued 2014-09 Date Copyrighted 2014-02-22 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 55.6 MB 263 KB Medium 1- hour and 47-second Hi8 CD/DVD 30-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Kendra Hazen and Marc Ennis. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/273/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Marc Ennis</a> Transcript Hazen Cool. Ennis Cool. Hazen Alright. I get to be fancy at the beginning. Ennis There you go. Hazen So just so you know. Alright. Today is Wednesday, February 26th, 2014. I am interviewing Marc Ennis, who served in the U.S. Navy. Mr. Ennis attended recruit training at RTC Orlando and after 21 years of service returned to Orlando to work at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division]. My name is Kendra Hazen and I am interviewing Mr. Ennis as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview in Colburn Hall at UCF in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Ennis, will you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born. Ennis I was born in Port Hueneme, California. February 9th, 1973. Hazen And what did your parents do for a living? Ennis Uh, my dad was actually in the Navy, but when we were born he had, uh, just retired. So, uh, my only recollect—recollection of the Navy was, uh, living near it, and, uh, he actually worked for the State of California, uh, for the, uh, gas company, and, uh, my mom was a stay at home mom, uh—didn’t work. I mean, she worked, [laughs] but in the—in the home. Hazen Did you have any brothers and sisters? Ennis I have, uh, three brothers. Uh, I’m a twin. A fraternal twin, right? Hazen Okay. Ennis And, uh, two older brothers, One of which is, uh, still in the Navy up in Jacksonville, and my—the—the oldest brother—he’s in, uh, Pensacola. Hazen What did you do before entering the Navy? Ennis So, uh, I was a student, and, uh, actually I, uh, graduated high school and, uh, joined the Navy, uh, that summer. So… Hazen The summer of what? What year? Ennis Uh, well, I guess it was the summer of [19]89. So I actually graduated, uh, during the summer of my junior year. So I never attended my senior year, and, uh—so I had enough credits, so I just joined the Navy. Hazen Oh, so why did you join the Navy? Ennis Yeah. There was a couple different factors, but I was getting married and had a baby on the way, and, uh, that’s what really started everything off. Hazen And was there a reason why you chose the Navy opposed to any of the other branches of service? Ennis o, I guess it was, uh, because of my father, but for the most part it was, uh—didn’t really think about any of the, uh—the other services. So yeah. Hazen Did, um—besides your dad, was there anyone else in your family who served in the Navy? Ennis Um, yeah. So we, uh—since my dad moved around a bunch before I was born, uh, we didn’t have a lot of family, but my uncle on my mother’s side, he was in the Navy, and then my, um—my wife’s grandfather was, uh, also in the Navy back, um—uh, I mean it was a pretty long time ago. Back in the ‘40s-50s. Uh, but that didn’t really, um, you know, make my decision to join, I guess. Now, as I think about it, and in fact, my mom was in the Navy too which is pretty unique. She was a WAVE [Women's Auxiliary Army Corps], and when they—when my mom and dad first met, uh, they were both in the Navy, right? Hazen What’s a WAVE? Ennis It’s a, um—it’s a Woman Active—I’ll have to look the acronym up, but it’s basically a, uh—um, a woman, uh, sailor that was doing administrative duties, but they were still part of—they were very vital to the war and everything. Uh, but she was yeoman… Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Which is a clerical type person, and, uh, but she was actually modeled on a three cent stamp—her and three other women. Hazen Hm. Ennis Yeah, that’s uh—I’ll send that to you—the details on that, but that’s pretty cool. Hazen Yeah, thank you. Um, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy? Ennis So, uh—no—no real, uh, heartache, and no real like, “Hey. that’s great.” Just kind of indifferent. Hazen Um, and where did you attend boot camp? Ennis So I attended boot camp here in Orlando, and I was living in Pensacola, Florida, when I joined. Actually it was Gulf Breeze, Florida, but... Hazen It was called Freeze, Florida? Ennis Gulf—Gulf Breeze. Hazen Gulf Breeze. What was called Gulf Breeze? Ennis It was the city. Hazen Oh, okay. Ennis So it wasn’t Pensacola, but—yeah. Hazen Gotcha. Um, and you said you began your training at RTC [Recruit Training Center] Orlando after graduating? Ennis Right. So I, uh—there was a couple of months, uh—so I graduated that summer. I guess it was maybe August-September. You know, I took the final class of summer school, got the paperwork signed off, and then, uh, took maybe a month or two off, and I was, uh, reported to board December 9th of 1990. Hazen Okay, and, um, you were from Florida at that time, but, um, what did you know about specifically the RTC Orlando region before you got here? Ennis Uh, nothing. Yeah. So… Hazen And… Ennis It was kind of a whirlwind, right? You know, you hear about all this stuff, “Hey, you’re going to boot camp here.” But for the most part, you know, it was, uh, get on an airplane, you show up, they bus you here, and then everything was a whole different world, you know? You’re, uh, taken out of the comfort zone, thrown right into, uh, you know, people yelling at ya, right? Hazen Uh huh. Ennis And 20 years ago, you know, it was a little different too, because they—you didn’t have all this, uh, kindler[sic], gentler, you know, no screaming, no cussing. It was—it was pretty hardcore, but it was good, you know? Hazen How long were you at RTC Orlando? Ennis Uh,for approximately six to eight weeks. I’m not sure exactly. I guess I graduated right around February—was it February 7th[, 1991]? It was right near my birthday. So that was kind of cool, ‘cause I turned 18, uh, you know, right when I graduated boot camp. So it was right around that day. I can’t remember the exact day, but yeah. It was pretty unique. Hazen What were your first impressions of the base? Ennis So, uh, the base—uh, we showed up at night, and then during the day, uh, we’d walk down a long, um, kind of sidewalk, and we marched everywhere we went, and, uh, there was[sic] trees. The weather was, uh, really nice. It was December. It wasn’t too cold, and, um, yeah. it was just, um—we saw a very small part of the base. I mean, we—we walked down the same street. We, uh—they had a big, uh, like marching field, right? Looked like a big tarmac—a big airport. Just a big black top, right? And, uh… Hazen Did that area have a name at all? Ennis The Grinder. Hazen Okay. Ennis Yeah, so that’s where you do all your practicing for marching, and, uh—but no. For the most part, it was, um, the same thing every day. So you really didn’t see any part of the, uh—the outside of the base, and all the buildings were very similar. Um, it was—it was, uh, very sanitary, I guess, right? So… Hazen And you’ve started to talk about this a little bit but what were your first days of service like? What were your first days of training like? Ennis Right. So—so, the very first day, you know, when we arrived here, there was a lot of yellin’, and, uh, obviously they were lining a bunch of people up from different parts of the country, and, uh, it was just kind of a shock, and, uh, for the most part it was, uh, Wow. You know? Your eyes are o—opened wide, and from then on, you just stayed busy. I mean your—you didn’t have a lot of time to think, I guess, ‘Cause they were just hitting you with you so many, uh, new things, and you were learning this, learning that. Um, so yeah. It—it wasn’t—there wasn’t really a lot of time to—to think about it, and then as you asked the question now, I guess I really hadn’t thought about it until—‘til now. Hazen Sure. Ennis You know, what I thought. Hazen Um, can you describe for me what daily life was like? Ennis Yeah, so daily life was, uh, pretty good. Very routine. You wake up, uh, I think it was about 4:30, and, uh, you did the, uh, you know—you brushed your teeth, Got all your toiletry stuff done, You lined up, They came in, Inspected, uh, the—the compartment, and then, uh, we normally PTed [physical training], uh—exercised, and then we went to classes, right? And then you’d do some— you’d go to chow—lunch, and like I said, you were marching everywhere you went, so that was a chore in itself, ‘cause we’d never done it, and, um, yeah. So there was a lot of motivation. Uh, they used to call it, um—uh, basically, you’d get punished, right? ‘Cause you didn’t do something right. So they would take you outside on the sidewalk and line everybody up, and they’d start making you do jumping jacks or something like that. But, uh, every day was filled with, um—with something new, as far as what’d you learn and then they’d move you on to the next step, So—but yeah the routine was: you wake up, get the compartment ready for inspection, uh, get inspected, go to class or PT, and um—and that’s the funny thing about the, uh, the exercise. The exercise wasn’t as, uh—we—we had no—no exercise uniform. I mean, you exercised in your daily stuff, Right? So it was kind of unique in that way that, uh—um, everything you did was kind of an exercise and you’re always ready to, uh, do—do jumping jacks or pushups or whatever. So it was kinda—kinda cool, and then, um, yeah. You’d hit noontime lunch, hit some, uh, dinner, and then after dinner, I know we did stuff, but I can’t remember what happened after dinner. Like I said, everything was kind of a blur. It’s kind of hard to go back and to—to think about it now. It’s, uh—you know, as I see the RTC now, I mean, none—none of it looks like what I remember, but then again all the buildings were tore[sic] down. So… Hazen Can you tell me a little bit more about the inspections? What exactly was being inspected? Ennis [sighs]. Hazen What exactly were the standards… Ennis Oh, yeah. Hazen That you were supposed to be meeting? Ennis Yeah, this was… Hazen [inaudible]. Ennis This was some crazy stuff, right? So on your bunks—and—and they were single, uh—very, uh basic bunks that you had. You had a bottom bunk and you had a top bunk. So what they would expect is, uh, the hospital corners, right? So how you folded your sheets and they would go down to the—the biggest detail of how the, uh—the edges of the sheets were, uh—I don’t know if you had that little, uh—I don’t know. You just had to have the sheets the right way, so when it folded over you wouldn’t see that little rough edge. So you always want the smooth edge on top and then the, uh—the hospital corners had to be at a 45 degree—everything had to be… Hazen What’s a hospital corner? Ennis It’s just where you, uh, bring the excess sheet… Hazen Oh. Ennis And bring it at an angle. It’s kind of like wrapping a present, right? And you take the excess and then fold it underneath so you have real, real neat corners. Hazen They call it “hospital corners.” Ennis Hospital corners, right? And the next thing was, uh, how you fold your socks, how you fold you underwear, how—you know, your t-shirts, and then everything else had a place, right? And they’re very detailed on—on—on that stuff. Your shoes had to be shined, and, uh, yeah. So everything… Hazen Belt buckles, maybe? Ennis Oh, belt buckles? Yeah. Attention to detail for all that stuff. So… Hazen Um… Ennis And that—that was every day, right? I mean, you didn’t get a day that went by where you didn’t get inspected, and most the time, you failed the inspection, right? ‘Cause there was always something they would find that wasn’t right, and then, uh, I think there was like 60 of us that started off. So you’d have 60 people in a, uh—in a room, where you slept and you did inspections, and, uh, normally, uh, those never went well, right? So you’re—you’re always getting corrected on somethin’, and that’s kind of unique, ‘cause, uh, as you go along you start getting better, right? And, uh, less, uh—less yellin’ [laughs]. Hazen So in that room of 60 or so, would there be one officer that came through to inspect? Ennis Uh… Hazen How would that… Ennis Yeah, it’d normally—you—you’d… Hazen Would it take a long time? Ennis No, pretty quick. You were assigned two recruit—recruit company commanders, and, uh—so for us, we had two chiefs. I think actually for us, one might have been a senior chief—an E[nlisted Rank] 7 and an E-8. So they’re pretty senior, and, uh, yeah. It’d go pretty quick actually. Maybe, uh—maybe a half hour. But—so the whole session though was, uh, you get inspected, they get mad at ya, they exercised ya, and then you fixed, you know, what the problems were and then you went and, you know, did classes or something like that. yeah. Hazen And then you talked a little bit about classes and tasks and you would do some class and then move onto the next one. Can you give me an idea of examples of… Ennis Yeah. Hazen Classes that you had to go through? Ennis Yeah, so a lot of ‘em were—were talking about firefighting, or different parts of the, uh—the ship. You know, how the ship operates. Um, different, uh—so—so the ship is, you know—they don’t have addresses for the different rooms, right? So you have bulkheads and they start from the beginning of the—of the bow, and that’s, uh, frame zero, and then, uh, as you go further back on the ship, the frames will increment up. So, um, you know, they—but basically the premise is, if you need to get to a compartment that’s, uh, on the first deck, right? It’s gonna be one and then the second number’s gonna be the frame number, right? So you know what—you know what level it’s on, and then the second number is gonna tell you how far from the bow, uh, the room is, and then the third number’ll tell ya how far out, uh—out it is from the center of the ship. Hazen Okay. Ennis So—so, uh, it’s a pretty unique numbering system, but it works on every ship. So… Hazen Sure. Ennis Yeah. Hazen Can you give me any other examples of classes? Ennis Yeah, so, uh, we talked about the firefighting. We talked about the, uh—I guess the, uh—the history. History was a big deal and, uh, that was kind of unique. So the Navy is big on tradition, right? And, uh, a lot of that was, uh—they’d go back and they’d talk about, you know, how the Navy was first, uh conceived, who, uh—the first ship—don’t quiz me on any of this, ‘cause… Hazen [laughs]. Ennis [laughs]. But, uh—yeah. So, uh, let’s see. We had, of course, uniform standards, regulations, you know. You did all the stuff talking about pay, you know. It was just a—anything you wanted to know about the Navy and, uh, that you needed to know, uh, you’d get in those classes. Some of it was basic, um, you know, uh, classes maybe on English or math, and some of these were, you know, to make sure that the, uh—uh, people could—could beat the standards, I guess. The other thing we did was a lot of in-prossing[sic] for your different ratings or jobs. So for me, um, they would take you to the medical—a lot of shots, right? And remember, you had to get uniforms. So yeah. It was a lot of, uh—yeah. Now—now as I start to remember all this—yeah. The first week, I guess, was, you know, picking up your uniform, you’re getting shots, you’re going to medical, and just a lot of in-processing, right? And then maybe the, uh, you know, the—the, uh—I don’t know—second, third, fourth week was a little more, you know, of the classes and stuff like that. So—but yeah. It—it was busy, and then maybe, uh—let’s see. So what was it? Boot camp was about, uh, six weeks, and, uh, in be—right in the middle of it, they had something called, uh, “work week,” right? So what they would do is—so all the facilities on the, uh—on the base—you know, whether it was chow hall, the laundry, the admin—was normally run by the recruits with, uh, some—some other senior sailors, you know, overseeing ‘em, right? So like, uh, for the chow hall, you had your cooks who were pretty senior sailors. They’d been in for four or five, six, years, and then of course, you had your recruits that would do all the, you know, washing the dishes, you know, cleaning everything, you know, running stuff from here to there, and then, uh—so we did that at about the, uh, maybe the third week, and, uh, did that for a whole week, and then, uh, you would fall back into training—training mode. Yeah. Hazen And those kind of tasks were normal tasks? Not like punishment or anything? Ennis No, no. So—so…. Hazen They were expected? Ennis Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That was part of the routines. So you would learn, uh, you know, whatever. Hazen Okay. Ennis Yeah, everything had a purpose. You may not have known what it was when you were doing it. Hazen Sure[?]. Ennis But as—as—as you look back on it, you kind of see that, you know, it was responsibility. It was initiative. It was, uh, all those sorts of things as a young kid you may not have, right? And, uh—so, you know, some people did good[sic] at it and other people—other people needed maybe a little more motivation. Hazen Did the Navy use words kind of like that? As kind of… Ennis Oh, yeah. Hazen Key words to guide? What were some of those key words? Enni Yeah, so, uh—um, “Uniformity will prevail,” right? Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Um, you know, obviously, looking sharp. “Sharp” is a—is a good one. “Professionalism.” Uh, let’s see. Um, I’m trying to think of some other ones. Uh, Yeah. Basically “teamwork.” You know, that’s—That’s another huge one that you—you’ll see, and then, the, uh—and remember, this was the first co-ed[ucational] boot camp too, so we had women, uh, that were, uh—obviously, we weren’t integrated, per say, but we had a sister company that, um, kind of had the same timeline, right? So, uh—uh, but yeah, but everyone was a shipmate, you know? You weren’t like a—or a sailor. Everything was kind of gender-neutral and, uh—so that was kind of unique, but yeah. They really wanted you to get the teamwork and the, uh—and—and the leadership, and they promoted the idea that, you know, when you’re on a ship, you know, it’s you, right? I mean, You don’t have anyone coming in there to help ya, so If something happens, uh, it’s the crew that’s gonna, uh, take care of the, uh—the issues, whatever they might be. So—and that was the other thing—talk about history—was they used a lot of examples from the past, you know, whether it be, uh, um, back in the John Paul Jones days or the, um, you know—in World War II or—or anything like that. So it was pretty cool. Hazen Thank you. Ennis You’re welcome. Hazen Can you tell me a little bit about the recruits that you went through training with? What was your impression or your relationships like with the different recruits? Ennis Yeah, so, uh, that was pretty cool, and it’s—it’s kind of funny how, um, you know, people that don’t know each other and are from different parts of the country—But everyone has a characteristic or—or a trait, and, uh, I think the—the instructors were very good at picking out, um, you know, people for their different talents, right? Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis And then, Maybe—maybe, uh, they had some insight. but like, uh, we had an older recruit, right? I think he was like 25, and, uh, he immediately kind of, like, took charge. So they made him the, uh, kind of the leader of the group, right? Hazen Yeah. Ennis And then we had some other people that were, uh, you know—I don’t want to stereotype people—but they had one guy with glasses, and I think he was very administrative. So they made him the yeoman. So you pretty much had the same basic tasks or the basic structures like anywhere, right? You have a—a leader. You have a secretary. You have a, you know, master-at-arms, and, um—so yeah. I remember the people that they picked were, uh—I’d kinda go Yeah. That—that’s interesting. You know, and, uh, my claim to fame was, you know, to—to lay low and don’t be noticed. So that worked out pretty well, and, uh, yeah. It was uneventful, and the memories that, you know—from—from boot camp—while—I don’t really keep in touch them. Hazen Okay. Ennis I mean, it’s a—it’s—if you see them, it’s an immediate, uh, bond, because it’s something you got—you know, you’ve been through. Yeah. It was pretty cool. Hazen What kind of social life existed among the recruit—recruits? Ennis Um, yeah. Social life? Really none. Hazen [laughs]. Ennis I mean, you know, the biggest thing was there was maybe—an always kind of an underground, uh, type deal with the—with the recruits. Like if the, uh—the instructor left, then, uh, you know, the recruits would—I mean, we were breaking the rules, but you know they—they would say, “Lights out. Go to sleep.” And the next thing you know, uh, you’d start, you know, maybe talking to your buddy or, um, just kind of, you know, either, uh—just doing what you need to do, write a letter home or—or something like that, right? So I don’t think it was like breaking the rules, but you always kinda had your, uh—uh, your—your little bit of time to yourself, right? And, uh, the funny part was, a lot of people, uh, um, kinda worked out, you know? They—they, uh—‘cause I forget what time the lights went out, but there was, uh—yeah. A lot of people were—were doing pushups and exercisin’ and—yeah. I mean, it wasn’t a lot of people. don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t like they turned the lights off, the place goes crazy. It was just kind of unique, where, you know, certain people had their kind of routines and they kinda kept them. So it was kinda—kinda unique. Hazen Can you tell me a little bit more about the co-ed aspect of training? Ennis Yeah, so the—the co-ed aspect wasn’t a big deal. In fact, it was, uh, you know—I—I don’t know. Maybe—maybe I just didn’t, uh, take a lot of notice to it, but for the most part, they did what they did. Uh, we did what we did. There wasn’t a whole lot of, uh, interaction between the two groups. Uh, you know, we’d pass each other. We, uh, you know—really there wasn’t a whole lot of interaction. Hazen Um, did the women have a woman leader and the—the men have a male leader? Ennis You know, that’s a good question. Um, I think it was, uh, both. I think, uh—I mean we—I had male instructors, but I think some of the females had male instructors and I think some of the, uh, male, uh, groups had female instructors, but I couldn’t tell you for sure. I don’t think they segregated it that much, but, uh, I can’t recall. Hazen Were there any activities that were done together, even like… Ennis Yeah. Hazen eating or anything? Ennis Yeah. In fact, uh, um, we did have a, uh, competition week, right? Maybe not a week. Maybe a day or two, right? And, uh, it was kinda like, uh—what do you call it? Your field day, and, uh, you go out and do sports and everything, and I’m trying to think how we worked that, but I think that was one of the integrated-type deals where, you know, you, uh, um—or was that—I’m trying to think. Uh, Yeah. well, either way, I knew they were out there. I don’t think we competed against ‘em, but, you know, we competed against the different companies, right? So, uh—and I think there’s probably like 10 or 15 companies going on at one time, but I can’t remember. I can’t remember, but I know there was a lot of people. I mean, it was like a football field. Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis And the whole football field—it was probably a couple of football fields—and the whole place was busy, uh, with people doing stuff, right? From tug-of-war to sprints to, you know—I can’t remember all the stuff that was going on, but yeah. so that was pretty cool. Hazen Can you tell me a little bit about your instructors? Who were they and what were they like? Ennis Yeah, so, um, I remember I had a, uh, colored, uh, guy and his name was—he was a DCC[sic], and, uh, I want to say his name was, uh—what was his—Gibson, and Then, uh, I had a, uh— I wanna say an MMC, which was—so a DC [damage controlman] was a damage controlman, who was like a firefighter, right? Basically an equivalent of, and then we had a, uh, MMC, and he could’ve been—either way, it’s not important, and they’re both chiefs and they’re pretty, uh—a little older. You know, maybe 45-50, or it seemed old at that time [laughs], but they were, uh, business. They were business. They were, uh—they were no joke. They were, uh, uh, very strict. They were, uh—didn’t smile a lot. But, um, you—you understood that they were in charge, and, uh, they—they were, uh—they were good leaders, and to this day, I—you know, I enjoyed my time, I guess, if you—you could say that. Because, you know, you get a good leader and it really makes things easy, because there’s not a whole lot of, uh, stuff you have to think about, right? So that—that—that’s pretty good. Hazen What does MMC mean? Ennis Machinist[‘s] mate. They, um—they, uh—they do a lot of the mechanical stuff on the boat. They—they are, uh—they’re kind of like a metal worker type deal. Hazen What was the hardest thing you remember doing at RTC? Ennis Yeah, I guess it was the—I guess it was the marching, you know? I mean, that sounds crazy, but, you know, I can’t dance. You gotta have a lot of rhythm, you know? And, uh, in fact, this is a funny story. Our, uh, recruit, uh, company commander, uh—and that’s the other part. So the recruit company commander is a recruit, just like all of u, but he’s the leader of the group, right? He’s, uh, designated. Uh, you really, uh—I didn’t see too many people volunteer for it. So we went through a couple of guys, right? Hazen Yeah. Ennis Uh, I think at one point, I may have done it for like an hour, you know, till I got fired, right? But the, uh—the guy that stood out in my mind that had been the leader the longest was a—a tall, uh, black man, right? and he was pretty young. He was probably about the same age as most of us—about 20, and, uh—but yeah. he had it. He—he could do the marching. He had no problem calling off the, uh, cadences, and, um, yeah. He—so he—he was—he really, I think, turned our company around, because, um—I mean that was a tough part. I mean, if you can’t march, uh, you can’t get from one place to another, right? And it sounds ridiculous, because you go, What’s the, uh—I mean, Why are we doing it? right? How does this help us run a ship or be in the Navy? But it’s just one of those things where everyone has to do it. Everyone has to do it good[sic], and if you do good[sic] doing it, you look good, right? So, um, yeah. We went from not being able to, uh, um—you know, everyone being in the same step to be, you know, doing a marching band type deal, and, uh, remember: everything’s happening pretty quick[sic], right? So at the end of the, uh, six to eight weeks—whatever it was—uh, we looked pretty sharp. That—that was a pretty big accomplishment, because I think that the day before graduation, we have a little private, uh—not private, I guess—but the families get to come and, you know, we’ll march, uh, up and down, and it’s pretty neat, you know? So good times. Hazen In addition to that, which sounds like that was a—a moment of pride for you, can you tell me another moment that you felt most proud? Ennis Uh, let’s see. Hm. Uh, I mean, boot camp—I guess, uh, everything was just kind of go, go, go. So um, I mean, I guess—I guess pride being the—no. I don’t know. Not—not really. I think the biggest part is just the accomplishments in the little stuff that you do, and nothing’s really major. The only reason that I remember the, uh, marching was because that was—I mean, that was tough for me. I was like Man. Step. Step. What? [laughs] And then, uh—but no. the rest of it was, uh, fairly, um—I mean—I don’t know—easy or—not easy. probably isn’t the word. Maybe it’s just you take each day, day by day. So yeah. Hazen What was the official purpose of the Grinder? And does it have any special significance to you? Ennis Yeah, so—so the Grinder is where you practice most of your marching, and, uh, the Grinder—yeah. It was painful. I mean, you’re just out there forever. You’re, uh, practicing these maneuvers. You’re, uh—um, and one of the key, uh, things that we went through was: you used to have to march with these old M1 [Garand] rifles, right? or maybe they were M14s. but if you can imagine, you know, a 3-4 foot long rifle that weighs 10-15-20 pounds, and you’re holding this thing forever, you know, it gets tiring, and at some point, they decided to do away with it and, uh—right in the middle of our training, and I was thanking whoever made that decision, because that was the worst, right? So things became a little easier by not having to carry that. But, uh, yeah. for the most part, the Grinder was where you spent a lot of your time, just—just kind of learning the, uh—the different marching steps and everything. I—I’m not sure. Have you—have you ever done any marching? Hazen No. Ennis Yeah, I mean, it’s… Hazen Well… Ennis It gives a—it gives a tr—like, to the band people… Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis While they’re playing the music, and you just kinda go, Wow. Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Those guys are really—I mean, uh—Working hard. ‘Cause it’s—it’s hard. So… Hazen My brothers… Ennis Mmhmm. Hazen Were in marching band. Ennis Yeah. Hazen So I’ve seen the hard work Ennis Yeah. Hazen But I haven’t done it myself. Ennis Yeah, yeah. Well, thank—thank goodness [laughs]. Hazen Um, the decision to march without the rifles, Was that… Ennis I—I have no idea. All—all’s I know is, um—I remember classes before me and classes after me, um, uh, did have ‘em. So I’m not sure what—what the, uh—the issue was with that, but that brings up a good question of—yeah. Why? What was the, uh… Hazen Was it like that week that—that you’re supposed to stop marching with them? Was it something [inaudible]… Ennis No, I mean, most of the time… Hazen [inaudible]. Ennis People kept them the whole time… Hazen Oh. Ennis So I’m not really sure why—why they stopped that, and like I said, I think they brought ‘em back too. Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis So I’m sure it was someone’s, uh, good idea, or maybe someone got hurt, or—who knows? So… Hazen Um, can you tell me about other areas on the base, in addition to the Grinder, that were of particular importance… Ennis Yeah. Hazen To you? Ennis So—so the pool was a big one, right? And, uh, that was a good time and, uh, it really amazed me by how many people couldn’t swim. That was, uh—that kind of blew my mind, right? Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis And, uh—but that— was a lot of fun, and then I remember, uh, Perimeter Room, and I’m not sure if it was called “Perimeter Room,” but it’s where we did our timed, uh, runs to make sure you’re, um—you could pass the, um—the PT, I guess, and then there was the—the gym, you know. So the gym—we worked out in there a few times. You know, I’m trying to—I guess we did have, uh, PT uniforms, but I can’t—I can’t remember putting them on all that much. I think we only did for the, uh—the out-test and the in-test. Either way, um—and let’s see. Oh, you—you had the, uh—we had the, uh, firefighting trainer. The, um—and a lot of this I remember were— ‘cause those were, you know, the—the shooting range, where we’d have to shoot the guns. Um, the chow hall, of course, because we ate there a bunch. That was good times, and then, um—yeah. I just—I just remember this strip, you know, where the barracks were, right? It was kind of like—it almost—it’s a similar lay out of this building, you know? Kind of the long, narrow, um—I forgot how many stories it was, but you would come out of there and we walk down a—a street—marching down a street, and then, uh, based on, you know, kind of left to right, you may have some classes or classrooms, and then, uh, down at the very end, you’d have, a, uh—the chow hall, and the—the Grinder, I guess, was on the far, far right, and I can’t, you know—like I said, I can’t—if you go there now, none of it’s recognizable, and the other thing too is have you heard of the [USS] Blue Jacket? Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Yeah, so I don’t know where that was in relationship. For us, it was right next to our barracks, but where—where it’s at now is unrecognizable, so it’s pretty unique. Hazen Can you tell me about the Blue Jacket? Ennis All’s I remember is we didn’t go on it and, uh, we took a picture in front of it, and, uh, to tell you the truth, I don’t know why we didn’t go on it. Yeah. It was kinda—kinda strange. I think maybe it was getting a little—a little older, you know? But yeah. Hazen What did it feel like to graduate? Ennis Yeah, so that was pretty—that was pretty cool. ‘Cause, um—I’m trying to think. What—what was the final thing that we did? Uh, let’s see. All’s I know is, uh, at the very end, they, uh—they bring out the flag and they start, uh, playing “America the Beautiful.” Or what was it? “[I’m] Proud to Be an American.” And, uh, yeah. So everyone got real emotional and it was pretty cool. But, uh, that’s what I remember, and, uh, I’m trying to think what—what culminated, uh, before that. You know, what—what lead up to that point, and, uh—hm. That’s—that’s kind of strange. I can’t remember what the, uh—But all’s I remember is when we were done, it—it was pretty awesome. Yeah. So it was pretty cool. Hazen Was there a lot of people there watching? Ennis No, no. In fact, it was just our group. So… Hazen Oh, really? Ennis Yeah, so—so that was, I guess, the, uh—the—the recruit phase kind of ending, right? That’s when, you know, you’re done being a recruit, and the next day you graduated, and that’s when they had, you know, all your friends and loved ones, whoever in the stands and you did the, uh, parade, the marching through and everything, but yeah. as far as a lot of people watching, for what we were doing before—I—I mean, honestly, I can’t—I can’t remember what we were doing. I mean, I can’t remember if it was drills or—hm. Yeah. I guess it’s been a long time. It’s pretty—but I do remember, like I said, when it was done, it was, uh—they bring the flag out and everyone was like “Whoa” It was pretty funny. Not funny, but it’s pretty—pretty, uh, neat to see everyone kinda, ya know… Hazen And you get your hat, right? Ennis You know, we… Hazen [inaudible]. Ennis We didn’t get a hat. It was kinda, uh, yeah. Like I said, there’s no hat. There was, uh—like I said, I just remember a pep talk, the flag, the music, and then, uh, the next day, I think we, uh, graduated. Hazen And that took place on the Grinder, right? Ennis Um, no, what—what you talking about the, uh… Hazen The graduation. Ennis So the graduation took place on the grass, which, um—I’m trying—I can’t really remember where that was at either, but no. the Grinder was—was separate. So yeah. Hazen And then what did you do for the Navy after you left RTC? Ennis Yeah, so after the Navy, Uh—and this is kind of funny, ‘cause when I—before I joined, I was lookin’ at the different jobs, right? ‘Cause they have all kinds of jobs, and I was talking to the recruiter and he handed me a—a couple different, uh, cards, right? That listed the jobs and what they did, and, uh, you know, one of them was like torpedo’s mate, and so I looked at that one, and it says, “Must work in a,” uh, you know, “hot,” uh, “greasy environment,” right? So I was like I don’t want that one, and then I saw one that says—and plus, the school—the A school, which is the—the school that teaches you to do the job, it’s like in— I don’t know—somewhere—somewhere in the United States, and I see this one that says “EW,” which is Electronic Warfare, and, uh, it says, uh “Work in cool,” um, you know, uh, “dark climates,” you know, “in a—in a room with,” uh, you know—I don’t know. Anyways [sic], it sounded cool, right? ‘Cause it had the—It was Combat Information Center, so I didn’t—had no idea what it did, and then the bonus was the, uh, school’s in Pensacola. So, you know, I didn’t—that’s where I joined the Navy at, and that’s where my family was at. So I was like I’ll take that job, right? Had no idea what it did. So, uh—and the other reason I joined the Navy is ‘cause I didn’t want to go to school, right? Which is kind of funny. So the first thing the Navy does—the Navy does after graduation is they send you back to school, right? Which is this Electronic Warfare, and it—you can imagine your—your radar detector in your car, or if, you know—you know the concept—and it picks up the emissions from the cops’, uh, radar gun. this is the same thing that—that the ship does, but it picks up the radars from airplanes, from other ships, from, you know, missiles, from whatever, and those signals are analyzed and you can actually tell what kind of car it is or, you know, what type of ship or airplane. So the whole time in school, they’re teaching you about these radar fundamentals. They’re teaching you about the propagation. Blah, blah, blah, and then they want you to memorize—like a telephone book—of all this parameters, right? And I’m not saying it—I mean, it’s rote memorization. There’s just no way around it, right? So you’d spend your nights trying to figure out how you’re going to memorize all these numbers, so if they popped up, you could, you know, say what it was. So that’s what would happen is, uh, you—you—you’d get with a buddy and figure out these ways to memorize stuff, and, uh—so yeah. We, uh, did that, and then after that, um—I guess that was maybe another eight weeks and then was off to Virginia, uh, for my first ship. Hazen Can you take me from Virginia somewhat quickly to NAWCTSD? Can you walk me through? Ennis Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s pretty easy. Hazen How you got from one to the next? Ennis Yeah, so I did three years in, uh, Virginia, and uh, you know, the job was okay, but it was on a ship, and I saw a helicopter flying and I says[sic]. “That looks like a cool job.” I was coming up for reenlistment and I talked to one of my, uh, leading Petty Officers, and said, “Hey. This is, uh—I’d like to look at doing a different job.” He took care of me. He walked, you know—walked me through the whole process. Put a, uh, a package in, got accepted, and then, uh, for AW, which is Aviation Systems Operator—and then I get sent to Pensacola for Air Crew School, and, uh, I had no idea, but then I got sent to Rescue School—Swimmer School, which is in Pensacola, and, uh, I’m not sure if you’ve seen the movie [The] Guardian? With, uh… Hazen No. Ennis Who was it? Anyways[sic], so that’s the Coast Guard. Hazen Oh, yeah, with… Ennis Bruce…<a title="">[1]</a> Hazen Yeah—no. I think you’re right, and… Ennis Yeah, yeah. The, uh, young kid, right? Hazen That kid. Ennis Yeah, right? [laughs] So like… Hazen [Christopher]Ashton Kutcher. Ennis Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. Hazen Yeah, seen it. Ennis Yeah. Hazen You did that? Ennis Right. Hazen Oh. Ennis So, uh, yeah, I mean, once again everything—I mean, Hollywood makes everything look like Hollywood, right? But it’s pretty intense. I mean, you know, you’re doing stuff and you get pushed underwater and what not. So I did that then went to my first, um, Aviation Squadron in Jacksonville, and then, um, did five years there. So while—when I was on the ship, I did a six-month cruise, plus all the workups, you know, hit the Med[iterranean Sea], Um, you know—Greece, Spain, um—where else? I mean, uh, Croatia, and then, uh, you know—then I cross-rated. Then I went to my first Aviation Command. We did the same thing. Hopped on a carrier, did our six-month cruise right over to the Med. Uh, we did the [Persian] Gulf. Uh, you know. So that whole Europe and, uh, the rest of the area. Yeah. We just hit different ports in there. Hazen The Gulf? As in the Persian Gulf? Ennis Yeah, the Persian Gulf. Right, and then, uh— and then I did that for five years. Did three cruises, plus all the associative workups. You know, we did Fallon[?] detachments in Nevada, and, um, we did Andros Island, Bahamas, and, um, yeah. It’s terrible duty, but you know, you’re gone a lot, so you take, uh—you take your good points with your bad, and then uh—oh, yeah. Then I went to the wing as an instructor in Jacksonville. So I was still working with the Aviation Commands, except I didn’t have to go on a cruise, and then, uh, after three years there, picked orders to, uh, [Naval Air Facility] Atsugi, Japan, which is right near Tokyo, and, uh, went over there and did four years in Japan on the [USS] Kitty Hawk, and, uh, we hit Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, um, and, uh, did some work in the Philippines for the, uh—the work on terrorism there. They have a big terrorist cell there that many people don’t know about, and, uh, we did, um— uh, it wasn’t tsunami relief. I guess it was, uh—I guess it was typhoon relief in the Philippines, but after I left, they did do a lot of tsunami relief, ‘because that was the—the area. So, uh—and then, uh, after Japan, came to NAWCTSD, Orlando, and did four years there and retired. Hazen How did that assignment come about? Ennis The Orlando one? Hazen Yes. Ennis So, um, they have a list of assignments that you look up on a computer and, um, I said, Boy, that would be a good one, if I ever plan on getting out, and, uh, at that point, you know, it was pretty stressful. It, you know—I did the instructor duty and then I did the duty in Ja—in Japan, and, uh—so yeah. I was looking kind of for a, uh—a, um—actually, I—I loved the trainers, right? I loved the computers. So I thought that’d be a good fit and, uh, so I applied for it and it was open. So… Hazen And when you got here, what were your first days like at NAWCTSD? Ennis Yeah, it was pretty cool. It was more of an office environment, and, uh, it was very different than, uh—from the Navy buildings. I mean, even though this is a Navy building, it’s predominantly filled by civilians. So the military’s a very small part of that, and, um, but for—for the most part it was, uh—it was nice, because, um, everything was ready for you when you got there. The, uh—all the, um, computers, the—the furniture, everything was very new. Very, uh, kind of, uh, high tech, you know? There—there’s just a lot of resources available for you to do your job, and, uh, back— in the—in the fleet, you know, you may not have that. You may have, you know, one computer for five or six guys, and then, uh, there’s just not a lot of space. So space this size that we’re in, you’d have up to 30 people trying to work out of there. So… Hazen And speaking of your job, what were some of the things that you did? What were some of your primary responsibilities? Ennis So, uh—um, I guess, uh, for the aviation, the air crewman was being a rescue swimmer was the, uh, big one. So no matter when we flew or where we flew, you always had someone that had their—their gear with them, you know? You’re always SAR capable, which is Search and Rescue. So someone had to go in the water, you’d always have someone available. Um, so that was the number one, uh, thing that you did. The other part was, if we’re under way, uh, on the carrier that we were anti-submarine, uh, mission—meaning that we had a, uh, big sonar dome that would drop out of the bottom of the helicopter in a hover and you would stick that, you know— a couple hundred feet down in the water, send out a big sonic pulse, and see if you get any returns from the submarines. Uh, so that was another one, ‘cause that was pretty unique. You do that day or night, and, um, whether a sea state was 10-15-foot and the pilots are trying to stay in a hover, and, uh, so, yeah. that was pretty—pretty interestin’. Hazen That was—was that at NAWCTSD? Ennis No, no. Hazen So that was before? Ennis Yeah, so at NAWCTSD—the good thing about NAWCTSD is the needed the people from the fleet, because they would built the simulators that would act like, uh, you know real helicopters, right? So you’d go in there and you’d give them the subject matter expertise to say “Hey. This looks good,” or “This doesn’t good[sic].” Or you’d just liaison with the fleet and then go from there. So at NAWCTSD, the primary responsibility was program management or, uh, subject matter expert. So you’d kinda—kinda blur those lines a little bit, but, uh, for the most part, we were only there for 3-4 years, and the civilians have been there for a lot longer. So you’d come in and—and kind of assist them. Hazen Um, you might have already answered this a little bit already, but can you tell me about the types of projects that you worked on with NAWCTSD and what they were trying to accomplish? Ennis Yeah, so—so, the funny this is—is, uh, I transferred from Japan, right? And when I first got to, uh, NAWCTSD, I meet my boss, and he’s a civilian guy, and, uh, he’s a UCF graduate—electrical engineering, so he’s a great guy. Hazen Who’s that? Ennis Uh, Jonathan Glass. So—In fact, he’s still my boss right now. He’s probably wondering where I’m at... Hazen [laughs]. Ennis But if I tell him I’m here, he’s good, and then, uh—but yeah. So I get—I get to NAWCTSD, and I just, you know, been probably gone from Japan for maybe 2-3 weeks, ‘cause I took some leave, and they—they go, “Hey. We’re getting ready to deliver a trainer to, uh, to Japan.”" and it happened to be a—a simulator—a desktop simulator of the helicopter, uh, that I just, uh, got done flying it, and, uh, so—so in Japan, they don’t have the resources for new construction and for a, uh, new trainer. So they had this, uh—this desktop, um, simulator that would give you the tactical display and all the button pushin’, and, uh, we—we ended up delivering that right back to Japan, the squadron I’d just left. So it was kind of funny that, uh—which brings up another funny story, ‘cause you got Mount Fuji in there, right? You’ve seen pictures of Mount Fuji? Well, I took my daughters up there. I think they were eight and ten at the time, and it’s pretty—it’s a pretty good climb. It’s volcanic rock, right? So, uh, I didn’t want to be the dad that pushed them and scarred them for life. So I was being positive, but I would kind of let them do what they wanted to do, right? Meaning that, you know, if they couldn’t make, uh—um, I didn’t want to push ‘em too hard. Anyways[sic], we ended up not making the top, and the rumor is, if you don’t make it to the top of Fuji when you’re there, you’ll end up coming back, and yeah. I never believed that, but low and behold, you know, after reporting to NAWCTSD, I end up going back. So isn’t that funny? Hazen [laughs]. That’s fantastic. Ennis Yeah, it is fantastic. So, um, yeah. So basically we delivered a simulator back to Japan and, uh, that—that’s kind of what we do. Whatever, uh—so the ASW—the Anti-Submarine Warfare—Uh, the other part of, uh—I told you about the dome that lowers in the water. the other thing that we’ll do is we’ll drop microphones, and basically, uh—it’s called a sonobouy, but basically that’s what it is—is a microphone that you drop in the water, and you’re able to see the, uh, signature of the sub or whatever you’re listening to, and identify it, and if need, you know—if need be, drop a torpedo on it. Yeah. So… Hazen Can you explain a little bit more about what a desktop simulator looks like and is? Ennis Yeah, so if—if you use your car as an example, and, uh, if—if, uh, uh, all the controls from the gear shift to the steering wheel to the, uh, radio station. So all that we put on to a computer, and, uh, we try to simulate the environment. So for us, it’s the ocean mainly, and, uh, the ocean is, uh, you know—it’s pretty complex, right? And then especially when you throw sound in there, the propagation paths can get really, uh, really difficult. So the claim to fame for us is how much, uh, simulation do you need to do of the ocean to make it realistic for the acoustics? They start talking about fidelity and, uh, you know, then, um, realism and stuff like that, but—but that’s, uh—it’s a big trade off. Because if you have enough money, you can do anything right? Well, of course, we don’t have enough money. So, uh, we—there’s always a tradeoff. So a lot of that’s compromises, right? You make compromise in the visual system, or you may have to compromise in the size of equipment. So we would make our system mobile, put it on laptops, and, uh, the laptops, you know, in it—in itself, would compromise the, um— or maybe not. Yeah. I guess compromise the visual part of it. Meaning that you’re not gonna get real good visuals, but we’re not training the pilot how to fly the aircraft. What we’re trying to do is train the crew to work together, right? So—so each computer would be a different station. You’d have the pilot station, the co-pilot, and then you’d have your sensor operator, and all three of those, uh, computers would be networked together to, um—to talk, you know, back and forth, because in the aircraft, same thing. Uh, You’re able to split duties between a tactical display, um, you know—so if, uh—if I send a contact, via my gear, to the tactical plot, The co-pilot can acknowledge that, and then you’d get a course and speed on the sub based on, you know, uh, different positions and time. So if—if you send a position over—position A— at a certain time, and then you send over position B at a different time and you, you know—you line it up, you know, you’re gonna get a course of speed, right? So the gear would do that for us, but of course there was always some type of, um, uh, error built into the system whether it be, you know, the contact that, um—that you’ve entered in there was maybe a little off, and, uh—so you had to comp—you had to compensate for all that, and, uh, of course, the more context you had, the—the more the error would be averaged out, right? And, uh, so all that’s happenin’ pretty quick, right? And you may have a submarine that’s sending out counter measures, you may have equipment malfunctions, you know, you may have, uh, an inexperienced crew. So—there’s[?] just a lot of different, uh, aspects that go into training. Hey[?], and remember, you know, when the contact, or the sensor, uh, data that you’re looking at is—is just a line on the scope, you know, It—it may be a line that falls at 300 hertz, and then you have to determine what that is or, you know, put a bunch of different pieces of information together. Hazen Um, what, what’s the primary mission of NAWCTSD? Ennis Yeah, so the primary mission of NAWCTSD and, uh—we have a missions statement, I’m tryin’ to, uh—it’s basically to support the fleet in, uh—in simulation, and, um, yeah. That’s probably the easiest thing. Hazen Okay, and what do you think the future holds for simulation training here in Central Florida? Ennis Yeah, so simulation, uh—I mean, we are the, uh, um, center of excellence for modeling and simulation. Uh, we are the Navy’s central resource, when it comes to, uh, modeling and simulation. We have a lot of the, uh, companies around the area that support the, uh—the industry, and that bring a lot of capability to the, uh—to the training, and, um, the, uh—the future, I think, is, uh—is pretty good. Just because, as new technology brings better, uh, fidelity and higher realism, you know, you’re able to kinda blur the—the concept between real and fiction, or—I don’t know how you say that. So, If I can, uh—I mean, we’re getting to the point now where you put on the—the virtual, um, reality headset, and you’re now, as you turn and look—I mean, the—the—the screen is moving with you. So in this room, I could put on a virtual headset, and, um, it would give me the same, uh, dimensions, but of course, I could put a fire in the corner, right? And then I could react to that fire, based on, uh, where it’s at. So it’s getting really, uh, really good now. Hazen In what ways would you say that the simulation projects at NAWCTSD have impacted other branches of the military? Ennis Yeah, so I think the, uh—the impacts, uh—and I can’t say, you know, how we’ve maybe impacted, but I think the synergy of all the different components of the services working together, and the lessons learned from each of the components all kind of being centralized in this area. There’s really no, um—uh, no other place where that happens. I mean here you have the Marines, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, the Navy, uh, all working together, and in fact, uh, we’re now starting to include some, uh, state, uh, local, and other government, uh, organizations that can take advantage of, uh, the, uh—the training and the products that we’ve, uh, built here, and, um, so yeah. That[?]—I really can’t say. It—it’s really just the synergistic effect of everyone being together and the ability to, um, learn from each other. Hazen Thank you. Um, what would you say is one of the most valuable lessons you’ve learned from your time with the Navy? Ennis Yeah, so it’s going to be teamwork. You know, No matter what you do in the Navy, no matter what you do in life, uh, normally it’s, uh—it’s not just one person that makes something happen, and, uh, the other good quote that I learned was to be a good leader, you must be a good follower, right? And, uh, I can’t—I can’t, uh, say enough of that quote, because somebody always thinks, uh, that the leader has it easy, right? Well, guess what? that leader has a leader, that leader has a, you know—so it goes—it goes, uh—someone always has to answer to somebody. So—and that’s probably the one thing that the Navy’s taught me is I used to always say, I can’t wait till I’m in that guy’s position, and then I’m in that guy’s position, and go Man, that’s a—that’s a lot of work. So—but it’s good stuff. Yeah, and—and the other thing I learned to is, uh, if, um, there’s something that you want, you know, normally, you’ll have people that’ll help you out. They just need to know that’s what you want to do. So the people aren’t mind readers. You need to talk to them. You need to let them know what your, uh—what it is that you wanna do, and, uh, for the most part, I’ve never had a—a bad command or a, uh—a bad boss. I mean I’ve had some I’ve liked more than others, but for the most part, everyone have their certain characteristics that you’ll either agree with or disagree with, but as long as they’re—what they’re doing is honorable, then, uh—then yeah. That’s—that’s easy to, you know—person to follow. I tell ya, for the most part, I haven’t seen a, uh—a bad person in the Navy, you know? And, uh, it’s too bad when you hear a lot of the stuff that goes on, because they’re—for now, or in today’s Navy, the Navy is almost zero defect, right? And, uh, back in the day—yeah. You—you did stuff that—that maybe wasn’t, uh—you didn’t want your mom to know about, you know? But, uh, the fact is is that, um—uh, how do I say this? You were, you know—you’re doing some pretty tough stuff, right? And that doesn’t give you a pass for—for—for being, uh, bad, but what it—what it did mean was that you could, uh—you could definitely have a good time, right? And be a little rowdy, but what it didn’t mean was you couldn’t be disrespectful, and—and definitely, uh, some of the changes we made are pretty good, but some of the changes are getting a little to, uh, you know, PC, right? Too much politically correct. Hazen We’ve got about two or so minutes left. is there anything else you’d like to share about your Navy experience. Maybe… Ennis Yeah [laughs]. Hazen Photos for the last two? Alright. Ennis So… Hazen [inaudible] And move it towards you. Ennis Alright. So the cool thing about the Navy is all the different experiences that you get to, uh—places you get to visit, things you get to do. In fact, uh, when I, uh— I guess it was my second cruise when I was with the helicopters. We went to Cannes, France, and they were doing the Cannes [International] Film Festival, right? Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Well, of course, we don’t get to go inside, but we get to see everyone that walks in, so that was pretty cool, and we saw Henry [Franklin] Winkler. You know who he is? The Fonz. So we yelled to him and—and we were like, “Hey, Mr. Winkler!” And he gave us a—real, real good pep talk, but that was kind of cool, uh, but this is my buddy, and, uh, I’m actually the one taking the picture of this, and we took a—a we were in Australia, and we took the Australian, uh, Special Forces, and we were taking them up to, uh, Fasthrow[?]—and a couple of guys to go parachuting. So, this just happens to be, uh, one of the dogs they take with them and we actually, uh, lowered the dog down, and, uh—but yeah. He went flying with us so, and—and He looks to be having a good time, right [clicks touchpad]. So the, uh—the next picture—this is, um—so—sounds pretty exciting everything I’ve told you, right? Flying in the helicopters, huntin’ the submarines, uh, doing the rescue swimming, and all that, but a lot of it is—just imagine driving in your car or around the block, you know, like a hundred times. Because with the, uh—the systems we have in place now on the airplanes, they’re really safe, and, uh, mishaps, uh happen very rarely. So we would fly in what we’d call “Starboard[?] Delta” for up to three hours at a time and doing circles, right? And this is one of those times where, uh, we’re just kinda sitting at the back and it’s a good view and everything, but we’re just, uh, doing circles around the boat. Just waiting for something to happen so—but, you know, the whole time you’re talking, you’re training. It—it—it—but it does get a little monotonous. Hazen Can you share the one of you guys coming out of the water? Ennis Oh, yeah, yeah. So this one’s in Japan, and, uh, we’re just doing training, and, uh, once again, it’s—it’s pretty fun when you do that. But, uh, that’s—that’s a yearly quall. So we don’t get to do it all the time, but when it—when it does, um—and—and o this was, uh, maybe six years ago. The kid I’m coming up with, uh, he’s a 20 year old and, uh, pretty new to the Navy, and, uh, the cool thing about that is—is, uh, kids that join the military now—I mean, they’re expected to do some pretty awesome stuff. You know, either jump out of a helicopter, you know, patrol Afghanistan, and, uh, it really is amazing the quality of people that we have, uh, in the services today. So I—it’s—it’s—makes proud thinking of people, uh, you know, joining [clicks touchpad], and then so—here, uh—me and my Navy buddy Harold, uh, Lavine[?]. He’s, uh, retired Navy, works at Publix, I think, in Ocoee, or somewhere around there, but we’re just trying to promote the, uh—promote the Lone Sailor Memorial, and, uh—and pass the word. So that was that. Hazen Great. Ennis [clicks touchpad] Oh [laughs]. So this—this is on the, uh—the—I think the [USS] John C. Stennis, when we were crossing the, uh—the Equator, and when you cross the Equator, you—you do—you do something that’s called a “shellback ceremony.” And if—if—if you’re not a shellback, you’re a wog, right? So this is one of the traditions in the Navy that’s maybe got a bad rap, because, uh, we’re out at sea and, uh, you know, we—we, uh—you know, they make you walk like ducks, they spray you with fire hoses. It—it’s really, uh, kinda hazing, but it’s a—it’s a mariner’s—a sailor’s tradition, right? So you get to dress up and, uh, just have a good time and, uh—but you know. Uh, Yeah. So anyway, that—that’s a shellback ceremony. So That’s where we get to dress up and do all that and that—that’s why we look the way we do [laughs]. Let’s see. Yeah. I think that’s it. Hazen Mmhmm. Ennis Yep. Hazen Great. Thank you. Ennis So… Hazen Any last comments? Ennis No, I, uh, appreciate the opportunity, and, uh, you know, I think today’s Navy is—is a better Navy than when I went through, and, uh, I just—I just hope that it continues to, uh, you know—people understand that the Navy is—is the people, right? You know, you can have the best ships, the best aircraft, but the—the people—the men and women in the services, uh, need, you know, our support, right? And as long as we remember history and remember, you know, what’s, uh—what happens, uh, I think we’ll—we’ll be good, but that’s it. Hazen Great. Ennis Yeah, well, thank you. Hazen Thank you. Ennis Yeah. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Kevin Michael Costner. </div> </div> Afghanistan Air Crew School Anti-Submarine Warfare Arthur Fonzaerlli ASW Australia Australian Special Forces Aviation Systems Operator Aviation Warfare Sensor Operator AW Ayase, Japan Cannes International Film Festival Cannes, France co-ed co-educational Community Veterans History Project Competition Week Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center Corry Station NTTC CVHP desk-top simulators dogs education Electronic Warfare enlistment Equator EW fleet replacement squadron aircrews Fonzie Gibson Glass, Jonathan Global War on Terror graduations Gulf Breeze GWOT Harold Lavine Helicopter Squadron 1 Helicopter Squadron 14 Helicopter Squadron 5 helicopters Henry Franklin Winkler Henry Winkler HS-1 HS-14 HS-5 humanitarian aid inspections instructors Jonathan Glass Jones, John Paul Kendra Hazen Little Creek, Virginia Lone Sailor Memorial Project LSMP Marc Ennis marching memorials Millington, Tennessee Mount Fuji NAS Atsugi Naval Air Facility Atsugi Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division naval training NAWCTSD Operation Enduring Freedom orlando Pensacola Philippines pools Port Hueneme, California radars recruit training Recruit Training Center Orlando rescue swimmers RTC Orland SAR Search and Rescuer shellback ceremonies shellback ceremony Sikorsky SH-60/MH-60 Seahawk simulations Starboard Delta swimming terrorism The Fonz The Grinder The Guardian training typhoon reliefs U.S. Coast Guard U.S. Navy USS Blue Jacket USS Gunston Hall USS John C. Stennis veterans War in Afghanistan WAVES woman women Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service Yamato, Japan https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/262ace665d6d4bc6d2abd1d411b43ac9.pdf e0fe981228a25e687b34f2f74284ea85 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection Alternative Title Celery Soup Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Community theater--United States Theater--United States Description The Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play Remade - Not Bought, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida. Contributor Dingle, Cathy Lee Delgado, Natalie Fedorka, Drew M. Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot A. Kelley, Katie Lee, Luticia Gormley Maliczowski, Linda Lee Maples, Marilyn Miller, Mark Reisz, Autumn Thompson, Trish Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Kelley, Katie French, Scot Interviewee Maples, Marilyn Location <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 udio/video recording Duration 12 minutes and 48 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 912kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Marilyn Maples Alternative Title Oral History, Maples Subject Sanford (Fla.) Seminole County (Fla.) Oral history--United States Community theater--United States Theater--United States Actresses--United States Segregation--Florida Description Oral history of Marilyn Maples, an actress in the Creative Sanford, Inc., and Celery Soup production of Remade - Not Bought. The interview was conducted by University of Central Florida Professor of History Dr. Scot French and graduate student Katie Kelley on October 19, 2013. Maples moved to Sanford, Florida, in 1993. As an actress, she played the roles of Marlene Baggs and Arthurene in Remade - Not Bought. Maples is also a member of the theatre committee, the volunteer coordinator, and a member of the marketing team for Creative Sanford and Celery Soup. The interview focuses mainly on Maples involvement with Creative Sanford and Celery Soup. Other topics include how Maples came to Sanford, how she became involved with Creative Sanford, the importance of preserving history through community theater, her acting roles in Remade - Not Bought, the Celery Soup production of Touch and Go, presenting difficult or dark history, segregation in Sanford, and Dr. George H. Starke. Table Of Contents 00:00 Introduction 01:08 How Maples became involved with Creative Sanford, Inc. and Celery Soup 02:53 Acting roles in Remade - Not Bought 04:35 Preserving Sanford's history 05:31 Importance of involvement with Creative Sanford 06:18 Presenting dark or difficult history 10:05 Significance of integrating histories 12:29 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Marilyn Maples. Interview conducted by Katie Kelley and Scot French at the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> in Sanford, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Maples, Marilyn. Interviewed by Katie Kelley and Scot French. October 19, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 12-minute and 48-second oral history: Maples, Marilyn. Interviewed by Katie Kelley and Scot French. October 19, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Creative Sanford, lnc., Sanford, Florida Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center, Sanford, Florida Creator Kelley, Katie French, Scot Maples, Marilyn Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Orleman, Andrew Date Created 2013-10-19 Date Modified 2014-01-28 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 84.7 MB 168 KB Medium 12-minute and 48-second audio/video recording 9-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Theater Teacher Provenance Originally created by Katie Kelley, Scot French, and Marilyn Maples, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/8rNpdMrQ2y8" target="_blank">Oral History of Marilyn Maples</a> Date Copyrighted 2013-10-19 Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Transcript Kelley My name is [Mary] Katie Kelley. I’m at the Public History Center in Sanford, Florida. We’re here today with Marianne<a title="">[1]</a> Maples and the date is October 19th, 2013. Um, Mary[sic], could you just introduce yourself. um, just some background information, where you’re from, how long you’ve lived in the area—that kind of thing. Maples My name is Marilyn Maples, and been here over 20 years. I moved into my house in 1993. And when I purchased here, Sanford was on that turn. It was either gonna go good or it was gonna go bad. And, you know, there was that sharp[?] period of time where I would drive in and go, What was I thinking? Now I’m just elated to drive home every morning. I love my town. I love Sanford. And, uh, we’re truly a community. And there’s[sic] not many communities in the United States. You know, we are, you know—our neighbors during the hurricane, they were out in forces helping each other. So—and right now, we’re doing a benefit downtown because somebody has cancer, so we always come together as a family to help our community. Kelley Um, how did you become involved with, uh, the Celery Soup[: Florida’s Folk Life Play]project and Creative Sanford[, Inc.]? Maples Um, you know it was, because of the networking of people. You know, you know somebody that’s doing something, and they ask you to come out and be a part of it. And I was just asked by—I want to say Brian Casey asked me to become a part of it—you know, Creative Sanford. Kelley Did you know what it was when you, um… Maples Not really. Um, I did see the performance at, uh—uh, at the Wayne Densch [Performing Arts Center] when, uh, the group<a title="">[2]</a> from Georgia came down. Um, and I loved it. I thought it was great, and I was kind of well-hooked at that moment. Uh, but I saw myself as more of maybe a storyteller. You know, gathering lines or, uh, doing the background, ‘cause I produced over twenty shows at the Wayne Densch, so—and very little stage time. So with this play, it gives anybody the opportunity to be on stage, whereas you go to other theater groups and it’s very cliquish. So people never get the opportunity to go out on stage. Where this one, if you can fog up a mirror, you’re on stage. Kelley Um, what do you think is, um—what does being involved mean to you? Maples Um, it means, um—well, I’m preserving history. I’m—’m —I’m a storyteller. I’m preserving history. Um, and as showcasing what a great place Sanford is. And if you live here, you love it here. You know, there’s[sic] not many people living in Sanford, I would say, hate it. Kelley Um, what is your role in the current play? Maples Uh, I—I play Marlene Baggs of Baggs Produce, here on the corner of Twenty-Fifth [Street] and Sanford [Avenue]. And they’ve been there, uh, I wanna say since day one. And also, Arthurene—she was a tax collector in the Seminole County Courthouse back in the [19]50s. Kelley Um, well I have on here, “How do you get into character?” But I guess what we’re trying to get at is, um, what is your character’s role in Sanford history? Um, uh, what—why was their story included, I guess. Maples Uh… Kelley Do you think? Maples Um, well, I mean, everybody that’s lived here, you know, has a story—has a tell—has a story to tell. And, uh, the Baggs—we’ve got tons and tons. they were a colorful family. Um, you know particularly in the play, it’s called “rat-shot.” And this particular one is, uh—the mother got out the rat-shot gun, because her and the father were having an argument. So I mean, she was shooting in the store, things were exploding. Um, and then the previous play that I was in, I was Marlene Baggs, as well. And it—he was a worm farmer. People would stop, you know, on their way to go fish and he said, “Hey. I could sell worms.” Um, so Arthurene is maybe not as colorful. Um, you know, she was just a person that worked here and was a tax collector. Kelley Um, what do you see as Creative Sanford’s and the Celery Soup play—what do you see as sort of their role in preserving Sanford’s history? Maples Well, we’re preserving also Seminole County. Um, people are, you know, more attuned to be, you know—to learn quicker, I think, with the visual aid. And a lot of people come to the theater and go, “I didn’t know that about Sanford.” I—you know, it’s just, uh, um—they’re just—or they go, “I knew that building, but I didn’t understand why it was here.” You know, what it was used for. Also, um, on Sunday we’re gonna be hosting the fourth graders. We always host fourth graders with any of these shows, because it’s part of their, uh, curriculum to, you know—the history. Seminole history. Kelley Um, and then I guess finally, what do you see as the overall value of this project and your involvement, um, with the Creative Sanford group? Maples Um, well, my involvement, you know, goes, you know, far more than just being an actress. I’m also on the theater committee. I’m also the volunteer coordinator. Um, I’m also on the marketing—so it just brings people together to showcase your talents. And even to showcase talents you didn’t know you had. So it’s a, it’s an enrichment for anybody that comes out. And I encourage anybody to come out and be a part of it, because, like I said, if you can fog up a mirror, you’re an actress or an actor in the Celery Soup productions. French Um, uh, okay. This is [Dr.] Scot French. I’m also, uh, part of this project. Uh, I wondered if there ever were—if there have ever been any difficult moments in telling the story about Sanford’s history or Seminole County history? Maples Well, uh, in our original, uh, production, Touch and Go—uh, it was about a, uh, lost pilot who was between, uh, between worlds. He had already died, but he didn’t know he was dead. And, uh, so one of the scenes is the actual burial, you know, of a military, uh, personnel. And so they’re folding the flag very, uh, you know—it was very reverent. And the woman playin’ the role, Karen Casey—I mean, she would just weep. And everybody’s in there weeping with her, because it was, uh—also, we have a thing at the end called, “I Remember.” and it’s, uh, where we’re remembering people who had passed. And, uh, and I’ve had two actors tell me that it would remind them of their kin. Uh, don’t remember kid’s last name, but it reminded him of his mother passing. He came over there and was just weeping on my shoulder. And then another woman, um—she’s, um, Dodie, and she’s the Celery Queen. [clears throat] And, uh, her son had passed away, and it brought tears to her eyes, because, you know, it was that time of year when he had passed. And so it—it—it—it touches not only the cast, but, uh, the audience, as well. I’ve had audience come up to me and say, “I cried and I laughed.” I mean, this was just unbelievable. So there are difficult moments. French How about the fact that you’re dealing with, uh, a history that is, uh, in some cases[?] very painful? Things like segregation, and there’s even a scene with Dr. [George H.] Starke and the… Maples I tell ya, I weeped[sic] when I, you know, first saw it bein’ performed during rehearsals. Um, because I had no idea that a black person, uh—during that time, if they were injured, they could not go to the hospital in an ambulance. They either had to go by hearse or a family member. So, I mean, um, segregation is just—was just a bad thing, but it didn’t just happen here in Sanford. it was all over the United States. And it didn’t just happen in the South. it was also happening up North. Um, it was, uh—but not as bad, ‘cause, uh, just the population. But I think, you know, even today people—even in the last year—people tried to show us as a very racial town and we’re not. Um, I think we’ve really evolved. Uh, I know for, uh, one of our actresses, Nancy [Harris] Ford, uh, she grew up here. And she remembers Jim Crow law[s] at the Wayne Densch. Wayne Densch has a balcony, and that’s where black people had to sit. And, uh, the white people were sitting down beneath. And when I would volunteer at the Wayne Densch, I would have people come in and say, “I remember I had to sit upstairs. But we were throwing things on the white kids below.” [laughs] So, you know, it’s been a hairy moment for everybody. You know, it was a sad time in our history. But throughout the world, there’s[sic] been many sad things. But there’s always, uh, something that rises up good out of it. You know, like the Phoenix. It rises up and is reborn. French Um, is the cast and crew and everybody involved, are you sort of aware of the significance—the symbolic significance—of coming together like this and—and telling these stories and integrating the—these histories that maybe not—weren’t integrated, you know, in the past? There was one community and another community. You made a very self-conscious effort to sort of weave these stories together. Are you sort of—do you think there is an awareness about, among the cast and crew, that what you are doing has this… Maples Oh, yeah. I mean, really, this brings you, uh, in a place where you would meet people you would not normally meet. Just because of, you know, where you live or who you socialize with. And so—and because of this, I have met some of the most wonderful people and I call them, you know, dear friends, like Dr. Annye Refoe. She was in the original one, and, uh, it was one of, uh, her tales of generations, where she was outlining, uh, you know, her roots. From Africa to Barbados to, you know, all the way up to Sanford. And she was the first one from her generation to get an, uh, education and a Doctor’s Degree. When I saw Annye on stage performing it, you know, during rehearsals, I fell in love with her. I said, “I want to be just like this woman.” So, yeah. I mean, would I have met her in any other place? No. So it’s really good. French And is there anything else that you would like to share with us or with anybody who is interested in this project? Just some final words or anything? Maples Well, you know, just as we were joking about, you know, there’s so much money to be made in history. You know, the theater suffers, as well. And so I was looking for, you know, people to come and see the play. and we’re also looking for people who want to sponsor it. You know, ‘cause, uh, history is so important. And particularly oral history. You know, I mean, I’m going to look back at this as cave drawings. You know, they had a story to tell. they told it on the walls. So this is, you know—this is our version of cave, uh, drawing. We’re telling the story. Preserving history. French Uh, great. Thank you. Kelley Uh, just to clarify. I believe in the introduction I said her name was… Maples Was Mary. It’s Marilyn. Kelley Marilyn. Maples You can call me Marley. you can call me Marilyn. You know, call me anything, but don’t call me late for dinner [laughs]. Kelley Marilyn Maples is the subject of this interview. Thank you. Maples Alright. French Thank you. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Marilyn. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Swamp Gravy: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. </div> </div> 25th Street actress Baggs Produce Baggs, Marlene Casey, Bryant Casey, Karen Celery Queen Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play community theater Creative Sanford, Inc. Ford, Nancy French, Scot Harris, Nancy I Remember Jim Crow Kelley, Katie Maples, Marilyn oral history race relations rat-shot Refoe, Annye Remade - Not Bought Sanford Sanford Avenue segregation Seminole County Seminole County Courthouse Starke, George H. Swamp Gravy theater Touch and Go Twenty-Fifth Street Wayne Densch Performing Art Center https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/569d7aa0ce04d7aa0e7fbea083fa6860.pdf db2938f2ec3bbc34e40e828831fe9781 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection Alternative Title Orlando Philharmonic Collection Subject Philharmonic orchestra series Orchestras Music--Florida Musicians--United States Orlando (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. The Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, located at 812 East Rollins Street Suite 300 in Orlando, was inspired by the closing of the Florida Symphony in 1993. The orchestra performs in more than 125 concerts each season. In June of 2013, the Philharmonic made plans to purchase the Plaza Live, located at 425 North Bumby Avenue in downtown Orlando, for office space, a rehearsal hall, a music library, and a music hall. Contributor <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> External Reference "<a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. http://orlandophil.org/. "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/145" target="_blank">Classical Collection</a>, Central Florida Music History Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee Fischer, Mark Duration 2 minutes and 37 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Mark Fischer Alternative Title Oral History, Fischer Subject Orlando (Fla.) Philharmonic orchestra series Orchestras Music--Florida Anniversaries Musicians--United States Horn players Seaquest DSV (Television program) Description Episode in the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra's 20th Anniversary video series, chronicling the orchestra's history in Central Florida. This episode features an interview with Mark Fischer, General Manager and Principal Horn. Topics in the video include the orchestra's performance for the television program Seaquest DSV and community involvement in the OPO. Mark Fischer received his education in music from the University of South Florida and studied the horn with the Philadelphia Orchestra and the New York Philharmonic. From 1975 to 1993, Fischer performed as Second Horn and Fourth Horn for the Florida Symphony. A founding member of the OPO, Fischer has been serving on the Orlando Philharmonic Board of Directors since its inception. He was also appointed to the position of Principal Horn in 1995 and the position of General Manager in 1997. Finally, he has performed with the Minnesota Orchestra, the Grand Teton Festival Orchestra, the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, the Jacksonville Symphony, the Naples Philharmonic, and the Florida Orchestra. The Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, located at 812 East Rollins Street Suite 300 in Orlando, was inspired by the closing of the Florida Symphony in 1993. The orchestra performs in more than 125 concerts each season. In June of 2013, the Philharmonic made plans to purchase the Plaza Live, located at 425 North Bumby Avenue in downtown Orlando, for office space, a rehearsal hall, a music library, and a music hall. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:13 The orchestra's performance for the television program seaQuest DSV 0:01:35 Community involvement in the OPO 0:02:28 Closing credits Abstract In celebration of the Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra's 20th Anniversary season, this video series chronicles the orchestra's two decades of history in Central Florida. This video was produced by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown and Lisa Mills with the guidance of Stella Sung and Emily Lindahl. Type Moving Image Source Original 2-minute and 37-second video by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills: "<a href="http://youtu.be/JuWfWsuguCE" target="_blank">The Orlando Phil's 20th Anniversary | Mark Fischer, General Manager & Principal Horn</a>." <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, October 3, 2012: Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. Coverage Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra, Orlando, Florida Lake Eola Bandshell, Downtown Orlando, Florida Creator Gennaro, Joe Brown, Timothy G. Mills, Lisa Publisher <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Contributor Fischer, Mark Sung, Stella Lindahl, Emily Date Created 2012 Date Copyrighted 2012-10-03 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Medium 2-minute and 37-second video Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills and published by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Loan Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> External Reference "<a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra. http://orlandophil.org/. "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOrlandoPhil. "<a href="http://www.floridahornfest.com/artists" target="_blank">Mark Fischer - Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>." Florida French Horn Festival. http://www.floridahornfest.com/artists. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/JuWfWsuguCE" target="_blank">Oral History of Mark Fischer</a> Transcript Fischer Well I think one of the—one of the events that stands out as we started out as an orchestra was, uh, a result of our willingness to do almost anything. And, um, Andy Lane, <a title="">[1]</a> who was the manager at the time, uh, received a call from a production company wanting to use an all-male orchestra dressed in, uh, boxer shorts to film a dream sequence for the, uh—um, the television show seaQuest [DSV]. We, uh, performed in the Lake Eola Bandshell, with the actor Roy Scheider on the podium. And, uh, Mr. Scheider was watching Andy Lane, who was behind the orchestra—not one camera—and was mirroring his motions as a conductor. And so we played the music and, um—and eventually it made it on to the dream sequence that was part of, uh, Roy Scheider’s character, uh, in the television show. And when we did that I thought, Okay. Well, we just moved the boundary a little bit, and I think, um, we’ll see what comes next. And, you know, there—there are no boundaries apparently. I think what amazes me most about the success of the Orlando Philharmonic [Orchestra] over the years is the extent to which it’s been embraced by people in the community. People have, uh—members of the friends of the Philharmonic would volunteer as board members, have really gone the extra mile over the years to help sustain this organization, and to see to it that even in hard economic times that it can—it can flourish. When—when musicians see that kind of commitment to the organization it makes them also more committed. Um, it, uh, gives one a sense of—of well-being. And, uh, that what—what we do as musicians is important. And, uh, and it’s considered indispensable to the community. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Andrew Lane. </div> </div> Date Issued 2012-10-03 Has Format Original 2-minute and 37-second video by Joe Gennaro, Timothy G. Brown, and Lisa Mills: "<a href="http://youtu.be/JuWfWsuguCE" target="_blank">The Orlando Phil's 20th Anniversary | Mark Fischer, General Manager & Principal Horn</a>." <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, October 3, 2012. http://youtu.be/JuWfWsuguCE. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Extent 107 KB 20th Anniversary board of directors Fischer, Mark General Manager Lake Eola Lake Eola Bandshell Lane, Andrew OPO orchestra Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Principal Horn Rollins Street SeaQuest Sheider, Roy Twentieth Anniversary https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/330b481d11752c95bb7ee8e364ce2778.mp3 f2fba4678f31251f7f6dec05c9a55f83 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/41846bbdf8d53b88ff0b72258acdde63.pdf 845d9983bdb4a30744de4c4b8047cc8f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Seminole County Centennial Celebration Collection Description The Seminole County Centennial Celebration Collection contains digital items related to the 100 year celebration of the creation of Seminole County. Items include ephemera distributed before and during the celebration, photographs, and other digital items. Seminole County will turn 100 years old on April 25, 2013. This centennial benchmark is being commemorated as Seminole Celebrates A Century of Success with a 100-day celebration beginning January 16, 2013, and will conclude with a community-wide Centennial Festival planned for April 20, 2013. Seminole Celebrates will highlight the county Points of Pride and is designed to celebrate Seminole County's heritage while embracing its future. Collaboration among the business community, faith-based organizations, art and historical societies, civic groups, and educational institutions will provide our residents with numerous fun family oriented events and activities over the 100 days of celebration. Contributor <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.goldenrodhistoricalsociety.com/" target="_blank">Goldenrod Historical Society Museum</a><a href="http://www.goldsboromuseum.com/" target="_blank"> </a> <a href="http://www.goldsboromuseum.com/" target="_blank">Goldsboro Historical Museum</a> <a href="http://www.sanfordwelcomecenter.com/" target="_blank">Historic Sanford Welcome Center</a> <a href="http://www.lakemaryhistory.org/" target="_blank">Lake Mary Historical Museum</a> <a href="http://www.usgennet.org/usa/fl/county/seminole/Geneva/museum.htm" target="_blank">Museum of Geneva History</a> <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> <a href="http://oviedohs.com/" target="_blank">Oviedo Historical Society</a> <a href="http://www.ruralheritagecenter.net/" target="_blank">Rural Heritage Center</a> <a href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.aspx?page=108" target="_blank">Sanford Museum</a> <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> Alternative Title Seminole Centennial Collection Subject Seminole County (Fla.) Goldenrod (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Lake Mary (Fla.) Oviedo (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/30" target="_blank">Seminole County Centennial Celebration Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Goldenrod Historical Society Museum, Goldenrod, Florida Goldsboro Historical Museum, Goldsboro, Sanford, Florida Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Sanford, Florida Lake Mary Historical Museum, Lake Mary, Florida Museum of Geneva History, Geneva, Florida Museum of Seminole County History, Sanford, Florida Oviedo Historical Society, Oviedo, Florida Rural Heritage Center, Geneva, Florida Sanford Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://apps.seminolecountyfl.gov/centennial/index.aspx" target="_blank">Seminole County Centennial Celebration</a> Curator Marra, Katherine Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference <a href="http://apps.seminolecountyfl.gov/centennial/index.aspx" target="_blank">Seminole County Centennial Celebration</a> Francke, Arthur E. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/39871004" target="_blank">Early Days of Seminole County, Florida</a>. [Sanford, FL]: Seminole County Historical Commission, 1988. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Mart Tucker Alternative Title Oral History, Tucker Subject Orlando (Fla.) Christmas (Fla.) Gainesville (Fla.) Description An pral history of Mart Tucker, conducted by Stephanie Youngers on November 10, 2010. In the interview, Tucker discusses the various towns and cities that she resided in, her college education, her career as a typist, her family history, her children and grandchildren, her husband's career, her involvement in the Seminole County Farm Bureau and the 4-H program, and opening Tucker's Farm and Garden Center. The interview also includes commentary from her husband, Cecil A. Tucker II. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:18 Biographical information 0:02:33 Living in Holopaw 0:05:51 Family life 0:11:58 College education and career as a typist 0:18:21 Children 0:19:44 Living in Marion, Seminole, and Orange counties 0:23:36 Seminole County Farm Bureau and 4-H 0:27:21 Opening Tucker€™s Farm and Garden Center 0:32:05 Grandchildren 0:34:17 Family history 0:40:07 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Mart Tucker. Interview conducted by Stephanie Youngers at the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Type Sound Source Tucker, Mart. Interviewed by Stephanie Youngers. November 10, 2010. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Orlando, Florida Christmas, Florida Holopaw, Florida St. Cloud, Florida University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida Ocala, Florida Sanford, Florida Citrus Heights, Sanford, Florida Tucker's Farm and Garden Center, Sanford, Florida Creator Youngers, Stephanie Tucker, Mart Date Created 2010-11-10 Date Modified 2014-10-01 Date Copyrighted 2010-11-10 Format audio/mp3 application/pdf Extent 412 MB 166 KB Medium 40-minute and 49-second audio recording 19-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created by Stephanie Youngers and Mart Tucker. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/48909411" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Edwards, Wynette. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Orlando and Orange County</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2001. Akerman, Joe A. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2647695" target="_blank">Florida Cowman: A History of Florida Cattle Raising</a>. Kissimmee: Florida Cattlemen's Association, 1976. Transcript Youngers My name is Stephanie Youngers. Today is November 19, 2010, and I am interviewing Mrs. Mart Tucker and Mr. Cecil Tucker here at the Museum of the Seminole County History. How are we all today? Cecil We’re doing great. Mart Just fine [laughs]. Youngers Good. Well, we’re going to start where and when you were born. Mart Okay. I was born in Fort Pierce. January 19th, 1932. Youngers And when did you come to the area here? Mart Well—here? Youngers Did you move around a lot before you moved to the Seminole/Orange County area? Mart No. I remember—the thing that I remember first was when we moved to the two-story house on Lake Barton—Little Lake Barton Road<a title="">[1]</a>—out just outside of Orlando. And we lived there for about 12 years, I think. And then Daddy, of course—he was going up and down the state when the tick eradication was on. And when that was over, he then became a foreman of the ranch south of Christmas. And, so when he was in the tick eradication, he never knew where he would be moved to another place. And so we rented the house that we lived in for about 10 or 12 years. Youngers Wow. Mart But, this[sic] was[sic] the [World] War [II] years, and you couldn’t find housing in Orlando. And somebody found that house, and bought it, so we had to find another place. And couldn’t go out to the ranch, because there was no school bus going there. Cecil How far was the ranch from civilization? Mart Well, it was 18 miles south of the main highway. Youngers Oh, wow. Cecil That was 18 miles south of Christmas. And Christmas was 20 miles from Orlando. Youngers Wow. And you went to school in Orlando? Mart Yes. Well, when that house was bought. If you worked for the company, they would give you housing in Holopaw. And the ranch was—that he was foreman of—was… Cecil Osceola County. Mart Well, it was in Osceola County, but it was owned by the Holopaw outfit. And therefore, we went to Holopaw. And we lived there. Best year of my life—well, not really. Youngers [laughs]. Mart But I had lots of fun out there in Holopaw. Mother was—helped to do out the—what is it? Cecil The commissary. Food stamps. Mart No, the—food stamps and things. Still the war—we still had that. And that was in the commissary. So I’d come to the commissary and I’d help the guys put cans up in that grocery department, and then I’d go to a guy that cuts up all the meat, and I’d do help there. And then at the end of the week, they would do their hand in their pocket and give me out some change. And I still have the .22 rifle that I bought with that money. Youngers Oh, my goodness. So, the commissary—that was like the grocery store? Mart Yeah. Youngers That was out in Holopaw. Mart Yes. Because you didn’t have to go to town if you need clothes or, if you need… Cecil That was P. V. Wilson Lumber Company. Big outfit. Youngers Oh, okay. Yeah. Mart And they’re not there anymore. Not at all. Youngers No. they’re not. Do you know—what is the school that you attended? Mart Well, I went to the school in—what is it? I had it down here. The city that was… Cecil Holopaw. Mart No, no, no. They had to go out. Youngers Fort Pierce? Cecil St. Cloud? Mart St. Cloud. St. Cloud. Rode into there. Youngers That’s still quite a drive. I’ve been down that road. Mart Yes. It was. Youngers And they had a grammar school there, or… Mart No. I don’t think so. Cecil What—in St. Cloud? Mart No. in Holopaw they did. Youngers But in St. Cloud? Did you attend grammar school? Or was it a large school? Or was it a small place? Mart Just regular. St. Cloud. Cecil It wasn’t that large. Mart Wasn’t anything like Orlando. But it was bigger than Holopaw. Youngers And you all lived in Holopaw for a year? Mart Just a year. Youngers When did you—where did you go after you left there? Mart Well, when we left there, the ranch was just officially our home. But Mom and us—well, there’s[sic] four girls at the time—had not yet finished all high school. So we went into Orlando and rented in Orlando until my twin sister and I… Youngers Oh, you’re a twin, too? Wow. Mart Yeah. Cecil Tell us about your brothers and sisters. Mart Oh, hm. Well, Sally [Albritton] and Betty [Albritton]. Helen [Albritton] was the oldest. And then I had a brother, Boots [Albritton], that[sic] was about, I guess, four years younger than she. And then there was two sets of—Sally and Betty. And then there was Miriam [Albritton] and Margaret [Albritton]. Youngers So two sets of twins? Goodness. Mart Two sets of twins. Twenty months apart. Youngers Oh, my goodness. Mart You can figure why I guess she had her tubes tied. Didn’t need any more kids. And what else did you… Cecil Well, just tell us about your brothers and sisters, because that… Youngers Did you all help out at home a lot on the ranch? Mart Well, see, we didn’t live on the ranch. I was privy to be able to—well, in the sixth and seventh grade, Daddy would go out for two weeks in the summer. And even then, on Wednesday, he would let me ride. I’d cow-hunt with him. I sat up on horse, and all that. He was my dad, but you took care of whatever you was supposed to do. So I loved to cow-hunt. We’d ride all day. We’d ride all morning and then have lunch and take a snooze before we rode some more. So you could get tired of it, but I didn’t. Cecil How about your brother? Mart Well, my brother, Boots—he was out at the ranch. He married and was out at the ranch. But he—he didn’t stay there very long. Thing of it is, you have to not let hollerin’ at you bother you, because when you’re having to do something, or things are quick—and Daddy hollers at you to do something—you don’t get out of sorts, because that’s just the way it is. But he couldn’t take it. And so he went into Orlando there. Youngers Now, did your other sisters do this with you too? Mart No. Cecil She was, um—Mart<a title="">[2]</a> was the only boy. Mart They didn’t. They didn’t never come out to the ranch when for—you know, like I did. Cecil Her dad said that he had a pretty good cowhand in her until I came along and started courting her and messed it up [laughs]. Mart [laughs] Oh, well, you could have jumped in and helped us. No. Youngers When you went to the high school in Orlando, were you part of any groups or anything there? Did you have any kind of social functions that you attended? Mart Well, I was athletic. So we had a group—a club—that I was head of. And as far as us girls that were athletic were concerned, we stayed after school and played the different sports that were available at that part of the year. Cecil What were some of the sports that y’all played? Mart Speedball was one. Of course, basketball. Volleyball. Cecil Softball? Mart Yeah, yeah. Softball. I was pitcher. But my main thing in high school was sports. And that and makin’ honor society. Cecil What about rifle team? Mart Oh, I forgot about the rifle team. Youngers You were on the rifle team too? Mart Well, we had a rifle club. I got a picture home, shows this old, oh, eight or ten boys and girls up there with their rifles, out from the school building there. Now, can you imagine? They’re letting people bring rifles to school today? [laughs]. Youngers Oh, yeah. Were the boys a little put off by the fact that you could shoot a rifle? Mart Oh, no. No. Youngers No? They liked that? They weren’t afraid? Mart I still have the rifle. Oh, when I was in Holopaw, and the guys—well, did I say that? And the guys, when they would give me money… Youngers And you bought your .22. Mart Yeah, that’s when I bought that .22. When I was in the eighth grade. So… Youngers Oh, wow. And they let you buy it all by yourself? Mart Oh, yeah. Youngers See, can’t do that anymore either. Mart [inaudible] Right, yeah. That was better days. Youngers Yeah. And from high school, you went to University of Florida. Did you do that right out of high school, or did you take some time in between? Mart No, I went right out of high school and I was going to major in animal husbandry. And, when did I see you first? Cecil The summer before you went up there. Mart Well, I can’t… Youngers You saw him here back home? Mart When my sister and I graduated from high school, then the ranch was our home. And that’s where I lived. And our post office was in Christmas. We’d go into Orlando to get groceries and stuff, and so one of those days before I went off to college, got the mail, came out and told Mom, “Oh, I saw the postmaster’s son. He was waiting—in there waiting on customers.” She said, “Oh, you should have told him you’re one of the lucky ones. You’re going to be in Reid Hall.” And I was really surprised that Mother would want me to—but I knew what—she was afraid I was going to get homesick at university and didn’t know anybody, and at least I would know one person. Of course, since I was a beginner there, I had to go a week early for the week of orientation. Well, it just so happens there’s this guy sitting on the steps of the big building we were waiting for something, the next thing to be done. But because he was a transfer student… Cecil I had to go to orientation too. Mart He had to do the same. And so that’s where I really met him. And, of course, we went to the frat[ernity] house and met all those guys. Youngers Yeah. He said he used to invite you to dinner every week to come have dinner with him and all the boys there. Mart Of course, he made sure to tell everyone one of them—oh, man. Whole house full of guys, you know. He told every one of them, “Hands off.” Never did give—well, he was out of town, he had to go home for his teeth or something, and old McGregor—tall, lanky fellow—asked me out. And I had already planned to do ironing and what not, but I said, “No.” That was the only… Cecil The only opportunity you had. He hadn’t gotten a word yet at that point. Mart Yeah. He hadn’t gotten to the frat house yet. But that was great. And I went that one year. But if I really wanted to go again back, I’m sure money would have been able to be found. Mother had an operation that took what normally would have sent me, but by then, I was… Cecil Sidetracked. Mart Well, yeah. I was wanting to get a job and save up money so that whenever we were—we were getting pretty close, and so I didn’t mind not going back to work there. I worked there and I forget where it was in Orlando, but then we were married. Cecil Jacob’s Packing House. Mart Yeah. That’s it. Youngers So when he finished out his education up there… Mart No, when he finished his—see, he had his first year in Orlando. Second year when I was up there too, and then the third year before—which way was it? We got married before he was graduated from college. Youngers So, did you stay down here? Mart No. Cecil Yeah. You did. You stayed one year working at Jacob’s. Mart After we were married? Cecil No. Not after we were married, before we were married. Mart Well, the next year, then what? Cecil Then we got married and you moved to Gainesville with me. Mart And I got a job in the animal husbandry department at Typhus. I was supposed to type this book they were wanting to have. And they ended up finally making it not a book, but something else. And they—do you remember? Cecil It was a book, but go ahead. Mart Well, anyway. That was—we had a lot of fun up there. One professor’s—of course I was a typist. They would give their handwritten stuff, and I would type it up. So I typed up this test that was going to be given out. And I went back to the fellow and I handed him the typed thing. And I had his handwritten, I says[sic], “Do you want this? I usually give it to Cecil.” He says, “Don’t.” [laughs] Cecil At that point, I was working on my Master’s [Degree]. Youngers Oh. They didn’t want him having the test questions. Cecil Of course, she was teasing, but… Youngers Aww. Mart Those were good men in the ag[riculture] —animal husbandry. Until I was pregnant with Miriam [Tucker]. Cecil They weren’t good after that? Mart Yeah. They were, but—then I was no longer working. So, what else is there to be said? Youngers When you all had twins too, right? Mart Mmhmm. Youngers Goodness gracious. Mart We had a little girl first. Then had twins. And Dr. Hoffman from Orlando—he saw to things. I mean, here I was pregnant, but in Gainesville, and we’d come home for, you know—back and forth. And in Thanksgiving—I think it was—came home and stayed. Cecil But now the twins were born in Ocala. They were born in Orlando, while we were living in Ocala. Mart True, true. Okay, so, it’s Ocala still. And he informed me that he’d tied my tubes. He contended with three on the ground, and coming in two’s, I didn’t need—and his financial status at the time, we couldn’t afford to have any more. To me, that was the best thing. That just made life so much easier, to not worry about getting pregnant. Youngers Right. Mart Good deal. Youngers Right. And when you all moved back to this area, it was so that Mr. Tucker could take his job at the Extension Office? Cecil Right. Mart Yeah, when were first in Ocala, and then… Cecil We were in Ocala for two years. I was Assistant County Agent in Marion County. And then we came here. I was [Seminole] County Agent and we came—I think it was in 1957. Youngers Okay. Mart What else we got here? Youngers What else did you do back here? Did you go back to work, or did you stay home? Mart Oh, what did I do? Cecil? Cecil You had three children. What do you think you did? [laughs]. Mart Alright. We were living out by… Youngers Christmas. Cecil Well, first we lived in Rosalia Drive. Mart Yeah. Cecil In Sanford. In about 1960, we moved out on old Orlando Highway. Mart We had acreage there—oranges and pasture. Well, that was one. And we had cattle. Cecil was workin’ at the dairy and he—they had calves that weren’t going to be dairy cattle. And we started building up a herd there. Cecil It was 1956 that we came here. Mart But whatever had to be done with cattle and whatnot around the place, I usually did it. Because he had to go to work. We were feeding out—how many? Seven steer? That year? Cecil Well, y’all raised a bunch of heifer yearlings first. And later on it was about 10 steers that y’all fattened up. Mart What do you mean, “Y’all?” Cecil You [laughs]. Youngers In other words, the kids didn’t help out. Mart Well, they probably had to go to school or something. It was probably wasn’t in the summertime or not. But that’s… Youngers So, you did a lot of work. Mart Oh, and also, we had some cattle… Cecil Lake Osprey[sp]. North of Osteen. Mart And so I primarily would go out there and check the cows or take them feeding. And he wasn’t always with me. Youngers Right. Mart We’d do it real nice [laughs]. Cecil About 1960, we moved out to Citrus Heights—Ginderville[sp] [Heights], or near Ginderville[sp]. And that’s when we were able to have a lot more cattle she could look after, and the kids could have 4-H projects. Mart And really, what was really nice was there was an old house down the way, and Mom and Dad were able to—he kept the livestock market in Orlando. They lived there until finally when he retired. And this little house—with Daddy’s expertise on carpentry and stuff, they made the house a nice little place and lived there. Youngers So you were close to your Mom and Dad. Oh, good. Mart Mmhmm. Youngers And you were—when you were part of the women’s club for the [Seminole County] Farm Bureau, was that while Mr. Tucker was working at the Extension Office? Cecil It was after that, when we started a store in 1972. And at that point, I became president of Seminole County Farm Bureau. And it was a law in there that she became chairman of the women’s—deal. Youngers What did you do while you were on that board there? Mart I knew that would be asked. I don’t know. Well, when we would have the whole group would have an annual meeting, and supper, and whatnot. Of course, I was involved in getting all that prepared. Getting tables right and things like that. Youngers Did you help set, like, regulations? Or were the ladies involved in that way? Mart No. Cecil Not much. Not much. It was primarily just providing information of programs of what was available to them and what was going on. Youngers Okay. Very good. Cecil But also, when we moved out to Citrus Heights area, you became more active in 4-H. Because the boys became active in 4-H. Youngers And did they raise heifers? Mart No, they raised chickens. Cecil Chickens and pigs. Youngers Oh. Cecil And they did raise heifers, but they never did raise any to show. Youngers Oh, okay. Cecil At one point, they won all of the trophies [laughs]. With the chickens at the show. Mart Oh, yeah. They felt kind of bad, I guess. Or we did [laughs]. Youngers They raised all the best chickens. Mart I can see why. They had the best of help. Youngers They had the best parents. That’s right. Mart Help ‘em learn. Youngers Good. Mart Oh, goodness. Cecil But when we’d have our annual 4-H contest and things, she was in involved in helping us judge things like the lamp contest and making lamps. Youngers They make lamps? Really? Cecil Yeah, and electrical, you know—learn things about electricity. And she also judged these speaking contests. Mart The what? Cecil Speaking contests. Mart Oh, yeah. Okay. A lot of this I don’t remember [laughs]. Youngers That’s okay. Mart I remember him, so far [laughs]. Youngers That’s important. Mart But it’s been really, really great being involved in those kind of things. Being around with the kids, and… Cecil We—we started the store in 1972. Were you involved in that? Mart Slightly. I always brought the main attraction of the store. And where did we find that little pig? Cecil My son-in-law found him. He was a little wild pig. And he was so young that he still had, you know, fawn with half-spots on it. Wild pigs have similar spots as well. Mart So he became mine. And did he have a collar on? Cecil Yes. Mart A leash. Because when he was littler, if I was going to go mail something… Cecil Or deposit something. Make a deposit at the bank. Mart I would take him along down the streets of Sanford and take him in on a leash and finally he got bigger and bigger and bigger. And he’d come up on the porch. I’d chain him up there out of the sun. Cecil At the store? Mart Yeah. At the store. But he would come in, I’d bring him in to the store in the car. And he would be in the front seat. And one day I went there, heard someone said, “Hey!” I saw somebody on the corner there with a friend, who went on to work. She told me later she said, “The person said, ‘Was that a pig?’” And she said, “Oh, that’s Mart Tucker. That’s all she can get to ride with her.” [laughs] What a good friend. So a car would stop in the middle of the street from the store and the lady would get out, come up the steps, and give something to Pete right there, and go down, get in her car, and go off. Cecil It was a daily ritual with her to give him some piece of candy. Something. Mart Some edible thing. Youngers So they would just come up and give him treats then. Cecil Yeah [laughs]. Youngers So how long did you have him for? Mart Until we finally, I quit bringing him in to the… Cecil He got to be about 700-800 pounds. Youngers Wow. Yeah. You wouldn’t be toting him around too much. Mart So he had a place there, at the barn at the house, and I guess… Cecil He got an infection. Yeah. Youngers Well, he got to be an awfully big boy, so… Cecil He did. [phone rings]. Youngers He must have been a happy boy. Mart He had lots of friends. Lots of attention. Cecil Excuse me. I forgot to turn this thing off. Youngers That’s alright. Mart Let’s see. That was at the store. Youngers So, you helped with the store, doing like all the stock. And, like, when the customers would come in, you’d help them? Mart Yeah. It’s Cecil and I. we did it all. It was a real enjoyable, and funny. Um, Horstmeyers? Youngers Horstmeyer [Farm and Garden]. Mart Yeah, they have it now. Of course, we come in and get our feed there. And we came in and Miss Horstmeyer was behind the counter, and she made some comment about, “There’s the Tuckers.” And her telephone rang and she said, “Tuckers?” Instead of “Horstmeyer’s.” We had the biggest laughs over that. Her calling her own store by the wrong name. Oh, goodness. Youngers And you sold the store to your son first, right? And he just took it over, and did you retire, or did you move on to different things? Mart Well, we didn’t do any—I don’t know. You’d have to ask Cecil. Youngers Okay. Mart Um, I don’t—I haven’t been—I haven’t thought of that in a while. Oh, goodness. So… Youngers Do you have grandchildren? Mart Yep, we got great-grandchildren. We had Miriam, and then Cecil and John. Miriam is in—still in Christmas. She’s in Christmas. And Cecil III—he lives in a house that was ours in Sanford, and John is on the coast. Youngers Daytona [Beach]? Mart No, closer by. Youngers Melbourne? Mart That’s south. What is it, right down Cheney Highway? Um, Titusville. Youngers Titusville? Mart Titusville. When, let’s see. I was trying to think, I guess Drew, his son, one of his sons, moved up to Titusville and he wasn’t going to be left behind from being around his grandchildren. And so they moved up. And they live in that area. So it’s real nice. Drew has four children—two boys and two girls. So John and Pam just make do over there profusely. [laughs] Which is really nice. So, we’ve spent time over there ourselves. Youngers You like it over there on the coast? Mart Yeah. It’s nice. Yeah. We were talking about John and Pam and the kids there. Youngers I had asked Mrs. Tucker what she did once the store closed. If y’all retired, or if you just kind of—what you did. Cecil Well, we sold the store to my son. And when we moved out to Christmas, we just spent more time working on the ranch. So. And that went on, we were pretty much full time on that until Mother—well, my dad passed away in ’95, and in the next couple years Mother came to live with us. And Mart looked after her for the next 10 or 12 years. Youngers Wow. Cecil Mother lived to be 101, one month, one week, and one day old. Mart She was the one. She was quite a lady. Youngers And how about your parents? Mart Well, my dad passed away. I don’t know when. Cecil Well, he was in his late 80s. And then later, your mother came to live with us, and she was in her 90s when she passed away. Mart She was living the little house, where she did when we were in Sanford. And my sister Betty was living with her when, after Daddy died. And keeping care of her. And it was getting to be a burden for her. So I just had her and Mother to come on over to our house and she would be looking after Mother, but she wouldn’t have that, you know, burden of having to do all the shots of making decisions that she had us to be able to do that too. And… Youngers Well, I was going to take you back a little bit, because Mr. Tucker told me your maiden name was Albritton. And I know that’s real prominent down in the South Florida area. I know that the families would run cattle and different things. Was your family involved in that kind of thing as well? Mart Oh, yeah. And, of course, Daddy—he was—how long was he foreman of the ranch south of Christmas? Cecil 15-20 years. Mart The thing of it is, he was involved in the tick eradication, and then whenever that was over, then he got the job of being foreman of that ranch. And so… Cecil But his family, the Albrittons, were raised around Polk County/Hillsborough County area. Mart Well, I was thinking of another—I can’t think of it. Where the Albrittons came from, I mean most of them were… Cecil Well, some came from that area. Mart Okay. What’s the name of the area you’re talking about? [laughs] Cecil Pine Level in Pine Crest. Plant City. Mart Oh, okay. Cecil Arcadia. By the way, Arcadia was named after Arcadia Albritton. Mart Yeah. Youngers That’s really neat [laughs]. Mart [laughs] Oh, something came on my mind. Cecil But Mart’s family came from—there’s two lines of Albrittons. There’s fence-cutting Albrittons and hog-stealing Albrittons. She’s from the fence-cutting Albrittons. [laughs] That’s another story. Mart Yeah. Yeah. Because cattle people move their cattle up and down the state of Florida, according to the weather. Weren’t any fences anywhere. People fenced their yard in, and things. And then whenever the—what is it? The people that put the fence across? Cecil Oh, the, uh… Mart Phosphate… Cecil Phosphate mining. Mart That came in. And so they didn’t want cattle going through, and they put a fence over, and so a group of men went and tore the fence down. And there was a big shootout there. Cecil Well, the second or third time that they tore the fence down was when the shootout happened [laughs]. Youngers I think we talked about that too. Mart Oh, did you? What else? Youngers Do you have anything else that we didn’t talk about that you want to talk about? Mart Don’t know. No, I don’t guess so. Youngers Okay. Mart Guess we’ve got everything. Youngers How about you, Mr. Tucker? You want to add anything? Cecil No. I think we did pretty good[sic]. Youngers Alright, then. Thank you very much, Mrs. Tucker. Mart Well, you’re welcome. Youngers And Mr. Tucker. Mart I hope it’ll be worth having [laughs]. Cecil [laughs]. Youngers Oh, it will. Yes, ma’am. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Barton Road. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Boots. </div> </div> Contributor Tucker, Cecil A. II 4-H agriculture animal husbandry Arcadia Albritton Betty Albritton Boots Albritton cattle Cecil A. Tucker II Christmas Citrus Heights commissaries commissary cow hunting cows dairy food stamps Fort Pierce Ginderville Heights Helen Albritton high schools Hoffman Holopaw Horstmeyer Horstmeyer Farm and Garden Jacob's Packing House Little Lake Barton Margaret Albritton Marion County Marion County Extension Office Mart Albritton Mart Tucker McGregor Miriam Albritton Miriam Tucker Museum of Seminole County History Ocala orange county oranges orlando Orlando Highway Osceola County P. V. Wilson Lumber Company Reid Hall rifle clubs Rosalia Drive Saint cloud Sally Albritton Sanford Seminole County Seminole County Extension Office Seminole County Farm Bureau SNAP sports St. Cloud Stephanie Youngers Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program tick eradication ticks Tucker's Farm and Garden Center typists UF University of Florida World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0a3ac9b8486b7d3886790481ed4b2bcb.mp3 0886297563b104a24246be3b270b3cf3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Goldsboro Collection Alternative Title Goldsboro Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Goldsboro, an historic African-American community in Sanford, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. On December 1, 1891, William Clark, an African-American store owner and businessman, organized 19 other black registered voters to incorporate the town of Goldsboro, which was the second African-American city to be incorporated in Florida. Goldsboro's early economy was driven by rail yards, fields, groves, ice houses, and produce houses. A year after its incorporation, Goldsboro opened a school led by Katie Stubbins. Goldsboro, which is located near Sanford, prevented that city from expanding further west. Instead, the City of Sanford passed a resolution to absorb Goldsboro, despite opposition from the latter town's officials. Nonetheless, the Florida State Legislated revoked Goldsboro's incorporation to allow its absorption into Sanford on April 6, 1911. The identity of Goldsboro began to erode as the City of Sanford renamed several of its historical streets. In 2007, Goldsboro was included in plans for Sanford's revitalization efforts. In 2011, the Goldsboro Historical Museum was opened in the town at the site of its original post office. Contributor Firpo, Julio R. <a title="Sanford Museum" href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.aspx?page=456" target="_blank">Sanford Museum</a> Language eng Type Collection Coverage Goldsboro, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.goldsboromuseum.com/The-History-of-Goldsboro.html" target="_blank">The Rich History of Goldsboro</a>." Goldsboro Historical Museum. http://www.goldsboromuseum.com/The-History-of-Goldsboro.html. Robison, Jim. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1991-09-01/news/9108310447_1_sanford-goldsboro-hurston" target="_blank">Political Sham - The Rise and Fall of Goldsboro</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, September 1, 1991. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1991-09-01/news/9108310447_1_sanford-goldsboro-hurston. Robison, Jim. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1991-09-01/news/9108310447_1_sanford-goldsboro-hurston" target="_blank">Political Sham - The Rise and Fall of Goldsboro</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, September 20, 1992. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-09-20/news/9209180388_1_sanford-railroads-goldsboro. Imperiale, Nancy. "<a href="http://www.greenwood-cemetery.net/history.htm" target="_blank">Discovering A Lost City Historian Finds Surprising Past Of The Goldsboro Community</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, May 20, 1990. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-05-20/news/9005190395_1_sanford-goldsboro-elliott. González, Eloísa Ruano. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-11-12/news/os-goldsboro-history-museum-20111112_1_goldsboro-avenue-novelist-zora-neale-hurston-museum-documents" target="_blank">New Goldsboro history museum preserves town's forgotten lore</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, November 12, 2011. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-11-12/news/os-goldsboro-history-museum-20111112_1_goldsboro-avenue-novelist-zora-neale-hurston-museum-documents. Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank">African Americans of Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Firpo, Julio R. Interviewee Hawkins, Marva Y. Location Home of Marva Y. Hawkins Original Format 1 audio recording Duration 1 hour, 2 minutes, 59 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 1411 kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Marva Y. Hawkins Alternative Title Oral History, Hawkins Subject Sanford (Fla.) African Americans--Florida--Sanford Meat industry and trade Celery Celery industry Educations--Florida Schools High schools--Florida Description In this oral history, Marva Y. Hawkins recounts her life living in Goldsboro, a historic African-American community in Sanford, Florida. Her mother was the owner of the neighborhood grocery store, Hawkins' Meat Market, located off of West Thirteenth Street, originally called Goldsboro Avenue and now called Historic Goldsboro Boulevard. Hawkins lived in Goldsboro her entire life and attended Goldsboro Red School and Crooms High School, where she graduated in 1954. Hawkins has worked in various positions, such as for Family Services, as an insurance agent, and as a columnist for The Sanford Herald. Table Of Contents 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:57 Hawkins family 00:02:15 Thirteenth Street 00:03:24 Celery industry 00:04:10 Hawkins' Meat Market 00:04:37 Hawkins family 00:06:22 Goldsboro community activities and schools 00:08:14 Migrant labor 00:09:40 African-American policemen in Goldsboro 00:10:25 Thirteenth Street 00:17:27 Closing down of businesses 00:18:14 Churches and businesses in Goldsboro 00:19:12 Growing up in Goldsboro 00:21:37 How children and families have changed over time 00:22:13 Social organizations 00:23:32 Crooms High School 00:23:46 RECORDING CUTS OFF 00:23:48 Crooms High School 00:28:42 Scholarships 00:30:23 Education and career 00:32:19 Relations with communities outside of Goldsboro 00:36:27 How Sanford has changed over time 00:39:08 How the community work ethic has changed over time 00:39:37 Interaction between Goldsboro and the white community 00:42:01 RECORDING CUTS OFF 00:42:02 Interaction between Goldsboro and the white community 00:43:26 How Sanford changed during integration and the 1960s 00:47:37 Typical day for Hawkins' Meat Market and present use of building 52:00 Hawkins' brothers and their families 54:15 How Sanford has changed over time 01:01:50 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Marva Y. Hawkins. Interview conducted by Julio R. Firpo at the home of Marva Y. Hawkins in Sanford, Florida. Type Sound Source Hawkins, Marva Y. Interview by Julio R. Firpo. Home of Marva Y. Hawkins. April 6, 2011. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/79" target="_blank"> Goldsboro Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Goldsboro, Sanford, Florida Georgetown, Sanford, Florida Creator Firpo, Julio R. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Hawkins, Marva Y. Date Created 2011-04-06 Date Modified 2014-03-17 Format audio/mp3 Extent 635 MB Medium 1-hour, 2-minute, 59-second audio recording Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Julio R. Firpo and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Firpo, Julio R. Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank">African Americans of Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. 13th Street African American African Methodist Episcopal Church AME CAIT celery industry CHS church cop Crooms Academy Crooms Academy of Information Technology Crooms High School desegregaiton education employee Goldsboro Goldsboro Avenue Goldsboro Elementary School Goldsboro Red School graduation Hawkins, Marva Y. Hawkins' Meat Market high school Historic Goldsboro Boulevard integration labor laborer law enforcement meat meat industry migrant labor migrant laborer migrant worker police race relations reunion Sanford scholarship school segregation Seminole High School Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church SHS Snarky's St. Paul Missionary Baptist Church The Sanford Herald Thirteenth Street worker https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/f43dd3ead248d73260c9417e22932733.mp3 07bf000d5fafe5f140599ce88250f2ce https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/12f11ded7ba8c6c0fcf667e14d16e0c8.pdf 9e250f1acd140110b28c5b4238fbc920 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Longwood Collection Alternative Title Longwood Collection Subject Longwood (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Longwood, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. The first European and Euro-American settlers arrived in present-day Longwood in the early 1870s. Its town founding settlers were John Neill Searcy of Tennessee and Edward Warren Henck of Boston, Massachusetts, both of which arrived in 1873. Henck was a railroad businessman, hotel owner, and real estate promoter, and he was later elected the first Mayor of Longwood in 1885. Henck was instrumental in bringing the South Florida Railroad to Longwood. Although Longwood enjoyed growth from the railroad, the Great Freeze of 1894-1895 caused many citizens to leave Central Florida. However, the area experience growth again during the 1910s and 1920s. In 1923, the Town of Longwood was incorporated as a city. Longwood experienced decline during the Great Depression, and the city failed to dis-incorporate after its bank failed in 1932. Growth returned to Longwood during World War II, thanks to the development of the Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford and the Orlando Air Army Base, which was later renamed the Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando. Prosperity increased again the 1960s and 1970s, due to the expansion of the military industry, the establishment of the space industry in nearby Brevard County, and the opening of Walt Disney World. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Longwood, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Contributor <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference "<a href="http://www.longwoodfl.org/content/1115/151/147/default.aspx" target="_blank">A Brief History of Longwood</a>." City of Longwood, Florida. http://www.longwoodfl.org/content/1115/151/147/default.aspx. Central Florida Society for Historical Preservation. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/48909279" target="_blank">Longwood</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2001. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Youngers, Stephanie Interviewee Bistline, Mary Carolyn Location <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Bit Rate/Frequency 1411kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Mary Carolyn Bistline Alternative Title Oral History, Bistline Subject Longwood (Fla.) Miami (Fla.) Lakeland (Fla.) Teachers--Florida Historic preservation--Florida Educators--Florida Description An oral history of Mary Carolyn Bistline (b. 1928), conducted by Stephanie Youngers on December 10, 2010. Bistline was born on December 22, 1928, in Memphis, Tennessee, but has spent most of her life in Florida. In this interview, Bistline discusses growing up in Miami, the economic and social development of Miami, going to college and getting married, migrating to Longwood, her career in education, the history of her family and her husband's family, the Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation, her husband and children, opening Oak Tree Preschool, and her children and grandchildren. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction and biographical information 0:01:46 Growing up in Miami 0:04:53 Development of Miami 0:05:48 Brother in Coral Gables 0:06:49 College, marriage, and migrating to Longwood 0:08:02 Career in education 0:10:22 Raising her children 0:11:02 Family history 0:17:50 Parents and siblings 0:21:52 Going to college and working in the library 0:22:56 Meeting her husband, Fred 0:25:19 Community involvement 0:27:03 Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation 0:29:26 Husband’s employment history 0:31:42 Woman’s Club and the City League Building 0:36:02 History in Longwood 0:37:19 Opening Oak Tree Preschool 0:40:44 Children and grandchildren 0:46:37 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Mary Carolyn Bistline. Interview conducted by Stephanie Youngers at the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Type Text Source Original 48-minute and 15-second oral history: Bistline, Mary Carolyn. Interviewed by Stephanie Youngers. December 10, 2010. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/43" target="_blank">Longwood Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Creator Youngers, Stephanie Bistline, Mary Carolyn Date Created 2010-12-10 Date Modified 2014-09-17 Date Copyrighted 2010-12-10 Format audio/mp3 application/pdf Extent 487 KB 187 KB Medium 48-minute and 15-second audio recording 19-page typed digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Stephanie Youngers and Mary Caroline Bistline. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference Central Florida Society for Historical Preservation. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/48909279" target="_blank">Longwood</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2001. "<a href="http://www.longwoodfl.org/content/1115/151/147/default.aspx" target="_blank">A Brief History of Longwood</a>." City of Longwood, Florida. http://www.longwoodfl.org/content/1115/151/147/default.aspx. Transcript Youngers Today is December 10, 2010. My name is Stephanie Youngers and we’re here at the Museum of Seminole County History doing an interview with Mrs. [Mary] Carolyn Bistline. How are you, Mrs. Bistline? Bistline I’m fine. Thank you. Youngers And if you’d like to start with where and when you were born? Bistline Oh. It asks my name—I have your little paper here, and I’m seeing that it says your name, and I usually mention to some people when it’s important and necessary for the record that my first name is Mary, but I’ve never gone by that name. My middle name’s Carolyn and that is how I’ve always been recognized. My birthday is three days before Christmas, and so there were carolers outside when I was born, and that’s why my mother decided on Carolyn. Youngers Very nice. Bistline And that was in 1928. In the Dark Ages. I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. My dad had little desire for farm life, and they were living in the Carolinas. But he was good at mechanics, and so he took a chance to move from South Carolina—before I was born to Memphis—with an offer for a job where he got on a newspaper. However, the job didn’t last all that long, and so we moved back to the farm when I was about four, I think. And my little brother came along. That was in Clemson, which is formally called Central[, South Carolina]. I don’t think they call it that anymore, but that was the little town on the side of the road. And then we moved to Miami when he was about a year old, which I think was 1936. I’m not sure of my brother’s age precisely. Bistline So, I essentially grew up in Miami, which was just starting to boom. We thought it was a big city. We went there, but it wasn’t as big then as it came to be as I grew up. In our little neighborhood—or our community—we were happy and knew all our neighbors. No worries about crime. I went to Santa Clare[sic]<a title="">[1]</a> Elementary and Robert E. Lee Junior High School and rode my bike and we loved going to the beach and the skating rink, etcetera. But in starting high school, I decided to attend Miami Senior High [School], which was not the nearest school to our home. This meant I had to ride the bus downtown, and then take another bus across town. And the bus stop was several blocks from my home. So, I had to go early every day to make it there, but I loved the school. I was in the chorus and several clubs, and very active at Miami Senior High School. Now they have several Miami high schools, among others. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Miami… Youngers I have. Bistline You have. Well, there’s more than one. This is the northeast section of Miami where I went. And I lived in northwest. Youngers Oh, goodness. Bistline But the Andrew Jackson [High School] was nearest to me, and I didn’t want to go there. As it turns out, my brother ended up going to [Miami] Edison [Senior High School], which was not too far away, and we were bitter rivals. So we played football, we were both on each side, even in the band. I visited, when I was in high school, a military high school in Atlanta[, Georgia], because I was dating a young student there—a young man that I had gotten acquainted with at church. And I really enjoyed going there, because I got to see a real military-type formation. They did all the things. They did first—and then the dress parade, and the graduation and the dance afterwards. Of course, there were stipulations how I had to dress. I had to wear a picture hat, which was the big straw hat, you know—it’s called a “picture hat” at that time—with flowers on the crown. And the long gown. I remember again, I was having been raised in Miami, that I was inclined not to wear hosiery, unless I was wearing… Youngers That’s because it’s too warm. Bistline Well, I had them. But I hadn’t put them on, because I thought that with the long dress, I wouldn’t need them. And so his sister came in to see and check on me, and I was getting dressed, because this was very formal, and she said, you’re not wearing your stockings. And I said, “Do I need them?” She said, “Absolutely, yes.” [laughs] So I really learned that this was military life, and that was the way they were. They were very formal. But I did enjoy it, and I dated him for really several years. Youngers And this was when you were in high school? Bistline Yes. But everything really began to develop land-wise and population-wise in Miami when World War II started. So there were a lot of servicemen in our church in Downtown Miami. So I dated mostly servicemen. And so it went to where I had been dating steadily with this boyfriend, I went to dating others. Miami became a [inaudible] city. Too big. Too much traffic. And there was an influx of Cubans, and later Haitians. And Miami Beach—having been made of Jewish folks mostly from New York, and etcetera—was taken over, you might say, by servicemen. Navy, Army, Air Force. And South of Miami—Homestead—also became service-occupied. Did you say you had been to Miami, or you had been… Youngers Yes. Bistline You know something about it? Youngers I’ve been to Biscayne Bay. I’ve been to Coconut Grove. Been to various places down there. Bistline My brother lives in Coral Gables. He’s an attorney, and now in the process of semi-retirement. A liaison, you might say, or mediator, in the circuit courts and so on. Just something to do. He’s really not handling, but he used to handle civil cases and had to learn Spanish while he was along the way. He drove downtown from the Gables every day, and then when he got to Flagler, he would drive up into the parking garage and park it and then go upstairs and cross Flagler to his office in the federal building. And when he was through with his day at work, he’d come back across—three or four stories up over Flagler—the walkway, and then get in the car and in the garage and drive back to Coral Gables. Youngers Right. Wow. Bistline Because he avoided downtown anymore. But when we were little, we went downtown to church, we’d get our shopping downtown and everything. We weren’t cautious or worried about it. But in 1946, I graduated, and then I went to Florida Southern College in Lakeland, Florida. And it’s a lovely, quiet, small town, which I liked. And I met Fred [Bistline] and dated him for a year. We married in 1949, after he graduated. We lived off-campus for a year since I had one more year of college. And I graduated in 1950, in the spring, already expecting. And in September of 1950, our first child was born in Lakeland. In December of 1950, we moved to Longwood, because Fred had a chance to get on with Minute Maid Corporation, and he was into citrus. He was one of the first ones to go into citrus school there on campus. And so we’ve lived there ever since—here, in other words, where we live now—for 59 years in the same house, ever since. We actually stayed in a little guest cottage before we could build on their property, the Bistlines. I started teaching in the old Lyman School, which is[sic] of course been torn down, and that was the school that Fred attended all 12 years. He played football there. He grew up in that school, because that was first [grade] through 12th [grade] at that time. And I taught second grade. And during my high school year, I had worked as a clerk in a 10-cent store, as we used to call it—Woolworth’s in Downtown Miami, as a file clerk in a furniture store—my uncle’s—and I also worked one summer in the office at the church in Downtown Miami. And I also did a lot of babysitting. But when I went to college, I decided to be a teacher. I had always thought I wanted to do that. So I received a degree in Elementary Education and Early Childhood [Education], and that was a very, very hard year—my first year of teaching. And it was a very extremely hard time for me. But I’m glad I stayed with it, because I became a teacher and have been for all these years. Youngers And you stayed at Lyman for the whole time? Bistline No, I taught one year at Lyman and I had a downstairs basement room, really, with stairs to climb to come and go. And I had a young boy who was paralyzed from the waist down, and I had to get him up under his armpits and lift him and drag him up those stairs to get him to the top level and put him in a little chair with casters on it—because he was paralyzed—and take him to the bathroom down the hall. And of course, I would always not quite make it in time, and then all high school boys would be in there between classes, and they’d say, “Mrs. Bistline, get out of the boy’s bathroom.” And I’d say, “I’m sorry, but I’m here because I have to get this little guy in and out. “And I’d try to go between classes, but I couldn’t always make it, so—but I remember how Chucky was so dearly loved by all of our other students, because they could take him in the wagon, and they could pull him—we had an outside door to the playground, and he would bring his cowboy hat and guns, and pretend he was a cowboy. And they would pull him around, and take turns. Just loved to be able to be the one to take Chucky for a ride. We really adored him. Youngers Where did you go after Lyman? Bistline After I left Lyman—I’ll get into that a little bit later. I went to stay at home for a while and had another child, a little girl. And at that time, it was really—I felt—in my best interest not to put my children in a school, or in a place where, anyway… Youngers Childcare. Bistline Mm-hmm. Childcare. I didn’t think they were really well set-up. I didn’t really like them an awful lot, so I stayed home as much as I could with them—my children—when they were born to when they were about of age to go to preschool. Bistline Now you asked, there’s a question here about your family history. And I don’t know how I got onto that, because I wanted to try to go by your questions. And I see it there—number three—on the page… Youngers Oh, it’s fine. Bistline Oh, I’m trying to keep my head on by writing this all down, because I’m not good at remembering things. Anyway, number 10 says—my family history. And so I wrote down some things, which I’ve just told you and Kim [Nelson] about a few minutes ago before we started officially here. I’m trying to have it researched now, and a lady and I—a local historic society is doing genealogies. But when she did mine, she traced names and birth dates only, back to the 1700s, which was interesting, but I’m curious about the occupations they had, and the birthplaces, some of which she did find. So I’m going to have to find someone who will delve further back, maybe, and find out what the people did, their jobs. And then one of the next questions on your list—“Do you know any stories about how your family first came to Seminole County?” Well, that would be my husband—and I’ll tell a little bit about him—my husband Fred and his mother Adeline Alvina Niemeyer, were born in Longwood. So my husband’s brother John [Bistline, Jr.] —whom you’ve met, I’m sure—was born in Longwood. And he has studied the Bistline side of our family background with a lot of help from several cousins—Bistlines in Pennsylvania—who really came up with a lot of information. Fred’s father, Mr. John Aaron Bistline, from Pennsylvania, came to Longwood in answer to an ad from the founding father of Longwood to get a job. He started working with Mr. Niemeyer, who had a general store, and eventually married his daughter, Adeline. That was Fred’s mother. Mr. Frederick Niemeyer had married as Ms. Clouser, who was related to the master carpenter, Clouser, who was hired by Mr. Hink to build the hotel, and most of the houses in Longwood, the chapel in Altamonte [Springs], among others. We now own the Clouser cottage [Josiah Clouser House], and hope to keep it in the family in Longwood. Mr. Bistline, Fred’s father, grew orange trees, had quite a large acreage, and raised squabs, which were specialty birds for eating in hotels. Have you ever heard of squabs? Youngers I haven’t ever heard of a squab. Bistline Okay. It’s a baby pigeon, is what it really is. That’s what it’s called—a squab. I don’t really know how it’s derived. But they would take care of them by wringing their necks—I guess it was—like we do chickens sometimes, and they would pack them in ice, and ship them north each week by train from Winter Park. Youngers Oh! Bistline So my husband would get up early hours in the morning and help his father, because they had to pick them and ship them as soon as they did to keep them fresh, and they had to be a certain age, and a certain size. If they got too big, they became very tough, and so people don’t usually eat pigeon. But squabs are different. They’re very tender if you get them at a young age. And it was—that day also would have them in the hotels here that he raised and started his business. Then he got started and shipping them north, and so they would take them in a wagon, pack them in ice box, crates, and take them in the wagon to Winter Park and have them shipped out once a week. So, another thing about Mr. Bistline—J. A. Bistline, Sr. —is that he started raising prize poultry as a hobby. And he became immersed in communicating with other men doing the same thing all over the world. And he won all sorts of awards, trophies, and prizes. Raised excellent expertise in raising silver-laced Wyandottes. <a title="">[2]</a> And these are beautiful, big, very regal-looking birds. Usually the roosters—the cocks, as they call them—with the large red cockade on their heads, and stripes along the sides. Feathers which might look lacey. They were in little rows, like on their feathers. I have pictures. And a lot of trophies. And some of these awards and letters from different countries—men soliciting information about Mr. Bistline about how he raised this beautiful poultry, because he won so many prizes and so many trophies and awards. And that’s a funny kind of an occupation to have, but it was a hobby, really, because he had the orange trees and the squab farm. We had over two thousand birds in that squab farm at one time. And so that was quite a job for Mr. Bistline and for Fred. John didn’t help very much there, John was always helping his mother. So, anyway, Mr. Bistline was also very community-oriented, and he was on the town council in Longwood for at least, I think, 20 years. I’m not sure. He was active in church choir—an elder, a Sunday school teacher. He played trombone in a band. Now, I have a picture of him on the stage at our building—the City League Building, we called it—in Longwood. And he was on the Seminole County School Board for 19 years. Mrs. Bisltine—or Addy, as she was called—went to Rollins [College], and she played piano. I have a picture of her doing a concert. And she played piano and sang in the choir, and she was a charter member of the Woman’s Club [of Longwood] and officer most every year—some sort of officer. And her mother was the same way, Frances Niemeyer. So it was accepted that when I married Fred and came there with him to live that I become a member of the Woman’s Club immediately, and be active in the church. Now, it mentions on your list my background and my parents. My father was the newspaperman. And he inspired—he was probably inspired—I mean, possibly by his rich Uncle Vernon. We have a book on him. He was in the Midwest as an editor of a newspaper. But my dad’s mother had died when my dad was born, as was his twin brother. He died also. And since he had another older brother and four sisters, his father sent him as a tiny infant to live with Aunt Fannie. Doesn’t everybody always have an Aunt Fannie? In Pelzer, South Carolina. And so he told me some stories about how she carried him around on a pillow, because he was so tiny, and she nursed him to health and kept him there till he was almost nine. By the age of nine, he was on his own, I was told. Youngers Wow. Bistline Somehow, he worked on farms and moved about, and received minimum education. But then he met my mother, Hettie Catherine Hollis, in Central—or Clemson—South Carolina. And they married, and he went back to the farm business again, and they lived there on the farm. My mother went to Furman University, and studied business. And when my brother was born, I was ecstatic, because I hadn’t been told before. So when the doctor drove in under his [Ford] Model T, and saw my playing under the giant walnut tree, and he told me he brought me something in a little black bag, and I would get to see it later. Youngers That’s a good story. Bistline I loved my little brother. And I tried to help my mother to look after him. I remember when we built a house in Miami, after renting for a while, there were beds of scorpions in the palmettos when my dad started the dig the foundation—the coral rock, which is solid down there. He, being from South Carolina—or actually, he was born in Georgia—was not familiar with the conditions, and he was stung many times by the red ants and insects, scorpions and all, and finally decided that the rock was the foundation, because he couldn’t remove it with a pickaxe. When we got the walls up and the roof on, we moved in with the spiders and the snakes as well, and one night, my little brother stepped on a scorpion and it stung him, and being about a year old maybe, he didn’t know what was happening, and he just kept stepping up and down on that scorpion. These bugs—the scorpions—were very large, not tiny. Sometimes, we see them around here in Central Florida, but they’re very small, and very seldom do we see them. But these are large, large ones. Many two to three inches long, and had a lot of venom. His feet were swollen for weeks and we kept putting ice on them and carrying him around for long time, but he finally got well—survived. So, as we developed a neighborhood there, we were fortunate ultimately in having a very nice home. Improved on our home a great deal, and my dad built additions on, and it became a nice building. We had great childhoods—my brother and I. Sometimes we did have a slight problem, because my father’s brother divorced and brought his four children to live with us at once time. And that was pretty hard. His youngest daughter was three months older than I was and she and I got along pretty well most of the time. But we were more like sisters I think in that we would fight occasionally. We love each other now to death. We have a lot memories, and nice memories. And he finally moved out and took one of the children with him. Anyway, we basically grew up together there for several years down home. And then I went to summer camp at Florida Southern and that’s when I decided I wanted to go to college. So I’m backtracking a little bit here, because I mentioned it earlier. Youngers That’s okay. Bistline I entered as a freshman and joined a sorority right away—Alpha Delta Pi—and I enjoyed campus life and dated a lot. But because my uncle divorced and went to Miami with three children to live with my parents, I just decided to work part-time in the college library to help with my college tuition, and I learned a lot with that. Youngers Oh, okay. Bistline Learned a lot about library books and how to catalog them. I had a little old lady who was probably 90 [years old], who was very, very strict. And she would make me look at those numbers until I was blue in the face, and so tired of trying to type them and keep the numbers straight. And I wasn’t a good typist. I would almost cry. I would get so tired of it. Finally, I got to be on the floor and handle books and see people, because I like people. Okay. Next question. “How has it changed over the years?” Well, I don’t know where that goes. I have number six there. I’ll just go with what I have in my notes here. One day, while standing in line at the campus cafeteria, I was chatting with friends, one of whom was talking to her boyfriend—she was the campus homecoming queen. And she introduced us. And he in turn introduced us to his roommate, and that was Fred. He and the roommate lived off-campus working part-time in a science lab, located on the grounds there, while attending school on the GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]. They both were from Longwood. Charlie Stum was his roommate, famously know in Longwood for Stum’s Corner, where they used to live. She was not a very nice woman—his mother. Charlie’s now in Polk County and on the staff at the university there—the college there. So, I had never heard of Longwood. And we chatted a while, and when my friend and I left, I felt something pulling me on my ribbon sash from behind. And I guess it was tied in the back. Anyway, he was trying to catch up with us, so he pulled on that, and I realized—I looked around and caught him trying to catch up, and looked at him kind of funny, and he thought that was funny. So anyway, we laughed and we stopped to talk and then he asked me out. Our first date was to attend a play in town called Everyman, and dinner later at the town cafeteria. That was a big deal in Lakeland, because that was all they had then. Now, trying to get to the family here. Your question is, “Does your family have any heirlooms or keepsakes?” When Fred’s mother passed away, I was given permission, along with John’s wife [Mary Bistline], to share some of her jewelry—his mother’s—and porcelain figurines and dishes, photo albums, which I really treasure. And silverware and other stuff. So I was very glad to share and still have most of that. That was some time ago when she died. Now, number 19—question is, “What kind of local events and gatherings were there?” Youngers In Longwood. Bistline We were active in the Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation. We were charter members. And Fred was the very first treasurer, and then a trustee. And I was a docent, as well as a secretary and head of several different committees. We were active in our church, also. He was Superintendent of Sunday Schools, and I was a Sunday school teacher. Eventually, we were both ordained as elders. We were active in [Boy] Scouts [of America]. Fred had been a scout as a boy. I was a Cub Scout mother and leader of the Cub pack, also leader of the Brownie Scouts and Cadets, which I think now are called “Intermediates.” I think that’s what they’re called, anyway. Fred was a member of the Indian Guides. He was one of the dads, and he was a timekeeper at swim meets. Our second son got a scholarship from swimming. He followed through. He was very good at swimming. So we were both workers with the booster club at Lyman High School, where Fred went. And I was—for a short time, I was a helper with A[lpha] D[elta] Pi at UCF[University of Central Florida], which at that time was called FTU—Florida Technological University. I was always active in educator’s associations. President one year of Seminole County for Children Under Six—now, that’s not quite right. I’m sure it’s Seminole County Association for Children Under Six, which ultimately became part of the 4C [Community Coordinated Care for Children, Inc.] program now in existence, and I helped start that. I enjoyed that. Youngers When did you all start the Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation? Bistline In ‘73, I think it was. And the reason for that being that we wanted to move this house that was up for grabs for the fire department to use… Youngers The Bradlee-McIntyre House? Bistline And so, it was either ‘73, ‘75? No, I think it was ‘73 that we moved the house. I’m not really sure. It was right in there, that we moved the Bradlee-Mac house from Altamonte Springs to Longwood, and we also got the inside house while we were at it. We had to chip in, of course, a lot of our own money, and the move was quite large. Can’t remember his name—the man who did it—but it was quite an effort because, of course, because the Bradlee-Mac being three stories—Queen Anne. It was in terrible, terrible shape. I didn’t think to bring any pictures to show you today, but I do have pictures of how it looked before we moved it. Youngers I think I’ve seen some pictures of it. Bistline Okay. Youngers And it was in very bad shape. Bistline There was a man who lived in there, Bill Orr—he’s an artist. And I have pictures here where he had his—I don’t know if it’s a kerosene stove or not—but he had a pot sitting on it. Anyway, there were some pictures on the wall of the Beatles, or something like that. And you don’t really recognize or realize that’s the Bradlee-Mac house the way it looks now. You don’t realize until you find a few doorways and windows and things that you recognize. It comes to you that that’s the way it looked when it was going down. And after the move, we had to have power lines removed, or taken down. And a lot of trees had to be cut back, and a lot of hours spent on the road trying to move it. And there was just a small group of us, but we got it done. Of course, we were in the red for a lot of years afterwards, but we finally got ourselves in black. Fred was a member of the Board of the [Florida] Farm Bureau for over 40 years, because he’s into citrus. And he was with Minute Maid, and they later became connected to Coca-Cola—part of Coca-Cola. And he had been, more recently, traveling a lot and helping out Coca-Cola to look for properties suitable for orange trees. We went to China twice. We went to Africa a couple of times. And I got to go with him to some countries, because Coca-Cola was interested not only the cocoa part of it, but they were also at that time selling coffee. And so I went to Jamaica with him a time or two, and Mexico several times. So I got to travel too some in between raising children. Youngers Now was Minute Maid—was it located in Longwood? Bistline No. It was actually Orlando. It was a place called Fairvilla, which is still there. And he had an office there for a while, and then they moved to Plymouth—oh, I think they really were Plymouth first. I think that’s backwards. I think they were Plymouth first, and they had a packing plant over there and everything. And that was a little drive, but it was only 20 minutes then. Youngers Right. Bistline Now it takes at least half hour or more. Youngers So it’s really a commute. Bistline Yeah. And he worked over there for a lot of years, and then they moved to Fairvilla and then opened more plants and opened more, not necessarily more packing houses, but more plants. Concentrate was coming in then. That was real important then. And he helped to start that, had to help get the vats in and all that that they required for that. Youngers Mm-hmm. Bistline So, he was instrumental in the beginning of orange juice as we see it now, and concentrate, and then since then, fresh orange juice. It was almost, at that time, impossible to find. Then he became a kind of troubleshooter and consultant. Then I was president of the Woman’s Club for a couple of years, and instrumental in setting up the old-timer’s reunion once a year. This was a get-together of all the old-timers in Longwood, which we all loved. That was discontinued when the Woman’s Club disbanded. It was no feather in my cap that we had to give up, but we had dwindling numbers—membership—and most of the ladies were not able to drive or get out without help. And we’re getting up in years. We were just to the point where we couldn’t seem to get younger people in. They were busy working. We finally disbanded and we gave the building to the historic group in Longwood—Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation—with the provision that the building would eventually become a museum. It hasn’t happened yet. Youngers And is that the Bradlee-Mac House? Bistline No. It’s the City League Building. And it was the former Woman’s Club building, and we gave it away. Kind of regret that, sort of. But if we had tried to sell it, we didn’t know how we would divide the money, or what we would do. Where it would go. And there were so few members left that we didn’t seem to think that seemed fair. So I suggested we give it to the historic society, which we did, but it was with the provision that it become a museum. Now, we’re putting some things in there. We have a museum committee, of which I am a member and John is the president—my brother-in-law. We’re trying to get a museum set up and started. We’ve got some bulletin boards up and things, but they’re renting the building out now to society, because they did a whole lot of renovations. It was in pretty bad shape. So they spent a lot of money on it. So now they’re trying to make up that money that they spent by having people come in for weddings, and such as that. Bar-mitzvahs, other things. They do raise money, anyway. So right now, we’re not having much luck on getting—we don’t want to really put anything in there of any value, museum-wise, anyway. So we’re collecting a few things, but we’re basically just trying to do the bookwork that goes with it, and collect some information on people who helped start Longwood. And we’re putting together a little book, we’re calling it Footprints. And we’re trying to get some information together. And some, you might say—the basics, just right now, and hopefully we’ll someday have a museum in Longwood. I don’t know if it’ll happen before I’m gone, but we’re trying. Fred and I have also been active in the Seminole County Historic[al] Society—charter members there also. And I’ve been Recording Secretary at one time as well as Chairman of the Student Tours. Now, that goes with the society—the local group, the tours. CFSHP, which is Central Florida Society for Historic Preservation. I initiated tours—student tours—by visiting approximately 55 schools in the county, one by one, and introducing the history of the Longwood area for them, and setting up field trips by bus, through a grant. We had to work hard to get the grant. We’ve had as many as four days a week sometimes touring students through the town and/or the Bradlee-McIntyre House museum. It was I who introduced John and Mary [Bistline]—Fred’s brother—to the local group after he retired from New York, and they moved back to Florida and they became very active. I was raising four kids and teaching school, so I became less active for a while, and I’m again more active now since I retired from teachers. This getting too long? Youngers Nope. Bistline I’m proud to say that—now, number 21, you asked how historical events affected your family—community. Proud to say that we in Longwood were included in the Bicentennial Parade. The governors came through Florida in 1976. And I have some snapshots of a similar celebration in—I’m not sure if it was 1880—but Ulysses [S.] Grant came to visit, just for a day, in Longwood. His name is on the book at the hotel. We’re also proud of the Clouser heritage, hence the Niemeyers, and then the Bistlines, and pioneering the oldest city in Seminole County. The Clouser House has been acknowledged with a small plaque, and we had a little celebration at the City Hall, then Mayor Paul Lovestrand and other dignitaries—and our now-grown children, our four children have greater respect than when they were young, and appreciate the history of Longwood now. We put out a book, so we have some recognition, when we have our book on. And that’s our family on the front cover, the Niemeyers. Number 23 is, “Is there anything you’d like to discuss?” I just going to say—I’ve always wanted to have my own private kindergarten, so my husband agreed after some rentals we had were vacated, and he was tired of being a landlord anyway. So with some renovations to three small homes, we opened a school. We connected them all together, three little houses in a row, and we called it Oak Tree [Pre]School, because we have what is probably the largest tree, the live oak, anyway, in Seminole County. Youngers Oh! Bistline It’s supposed to be between 400 and 500 years old, according to a forester who came out in ‘88, and I’m trying to have that checked out now, because it’s been so long, I think it may have grown a little, and there was an article in the newspaper in The Orlando Sentinel, fairly recently, about a large live oak in Lake County, and according to the writer, there’s nobody in Seminole County who pushed through like they did there in the town council who worked on getting this tree recognized with some kind, you know… Youngers Oh, to protect it. Yes, mm-hmm. Bistline I called the writer—The Sentinel writer—to ask him and he talked with me and suggested names, one of which is a lady who works for the forestry service. And she’ll come out and measure for me which is the other one did, when I had this—but I had gotten the children out there and talked about the tree, and then they helped him measure. And they enjoyed that and they had a little—they gave me a plaque. And around that time—it must have been already. So I want to bring this back to attention in our little town of Longwood, and because it’s in our backyard. It’s not something you just invite the whole town to, but I do want them to know that they can come and see it, and be ready to mention it to anybody who’s interested in trees. And so I’m going to look forward to her coming. She’s coming after Christmas sometime to measure, and she said, by the way it sounds—with my measurements that I gave her—it sounds like it is one of the largest oak trees in the state. Youngers Wow. Bistline At least in the county, anyway. So we hope to have that recognized soon. And anyway, since I’ve been teaching in Seminole County for about eight or 10 years in public school at that time, I was disenchanted with all the paperwork, so I enjoyed revising the joining of these houses into one building, and making up the playground, etcetera. And I had that school for 11 years, we call it the Oak Tree Preschool. Well, actually, it came to be kindergarten. That’s my love, that’s my Early Childhood degree. But I had it for 11 years, but I gave it up after that, because even though I loved it very much, nobody wanted to pay tuition. They wanted to bring the children, but they didn’t want to pay. So it was just like—they thought it should be free, and I just let it go too long. I am a dedicated teacher, but I’m not a businessperson. So, I really let it go, and there were a lot of disappointed parents that we put a lot of money into, and we finally had to give up on that. Now, I was just wondering—when you ask if there’s anything else I would like to discuss, I realize I must not forget to mention our children, of which I am very proud. Walter Bistline, Jr. was born September 30, 1950, in Lakeland, and he’s now an attorney with several large law firms. But he’s been semi-retired and he was in New York City, where he got his law degree, and he went with White & Case. Then he moved to Dallas[,Texas], and opened and branch there, and later he went to Houston[,Texas], and opened a branch there, and now they live in Richmond, Indiana, and that’s because he found it on the computer—they have a photography studio there like, that he can go to there, because that’s his hobby. And so he’s on the faculty teaching photography and he judges shows, and they just came back from Turkey. Brought me this back from Turkey. Youngers Oh, very nice, yes. Bistline Did you know that tulips were grown originally in Turkey? Youngers I did not know that. Bistline All of us all think of Amsterdam[, the Netherlands] as the base for tulips. Youngers Very pretty. Bistline He and his wife bought that for me—a pendant with the tulip on it. And they’ve travelled, not only just to Turkey. They took a group of students there, and they stayed in England this time three months, but they were only in Turkey for a couple of weeks. But they do take students, say, a group like 25 students and sponsor them included. Well, they get sponsors, but they get help. This time, they got a flat to stay in in England—that was last summer. He’s travelled a lot. He’s been to China, he’s been around quite a lot in different places. Travels a lot. She’s also a lawyer. And then Frances [Bistline], our daughter, was born June 23, ‘53 in Sanford. And she has become an environmentalist and a magazine writer, and lately she’s been teaching school. She met Paul—her husband, Paul Stephen—at a church summer trip and went to Florida State University, lived in a co-op dorm, and then they married after graduation and moved to Naples[, Florida]. They lived there about 20 years. He’s a Clearwater guy, and he loves the water, so they did a lot of surfing, fishing, boating. You name it. And now they have moved to California, which I’m very sorry that they’ve done, but he’s looking for a new job, so they went out there. Youngers Oh, wow. That’s far away. Bistline Our next one was John Leland [Bistline], named after my husband’s brother and my brother. He’s a doctor of psychology, and he’s now working with insurance company. His wife is very, very sickly, so he has to stay home. Has his office there. He wrote a book. He met Kathy [Bistline] at Richmond University, at which time she was very, very into sports, and very strong. But she’s become ill with arthritis really bad now. They’re married in Virginia. Living there now. He’s really looking after Kathy himself. He’s her caregiver. Youngers And when was he born? Bistline He was born in 1955 in Sanford. And at that time—I have a picture of that old house that was the hospital in Sanford where they were born, he and Francie, and of course, it’s terrible, in bad shape. And when he was born, I had apparently just come out of a sleep afterwards, and they were going to bring him in, and they said they’d bring the babies in a few minutes. And all of a sudden, this rumble-rumble-rumble sound. And I said, “What in the world happened? My bed’s shaking.” And she said, “Oh, that’s just the elevator.” Youngers Oh, my goodness. [laughs] Bistline And it turned out my bed was near the elevator shaft. Whenever anybody went up or down on the elevator, it made my bed shake. Youngers Oh, I bet you couldn’t wait to get home. Bistline That’s exactly right. And then they brought him in and he was nine pounds and a half ounce and since you have a football player, I said, “That’s not mine.” Because Walter was only seven pounds and four and three quarters ounces, but they said, “Yes, this is yours.” So he’s a handsome young man and a big guy. He played football at Lyman, and as I say, they’re living there now. He’s in Richmond, Virginia, and Walter’s in Richmond, Indiana. Strange consequence. Jane [Bistline], our baby, was born in ‘65, December 4, 1965. And she went to Florida Southern College, where we went. And she was homecoming queen in high school. She’s a fitness instructor at the YMCA [Young Men’s Christian Association] now, and she does personal fitness in the home. She married Keith Reardon and they have three children. Two are twin boys—Keegan and Kamden. They’re now six, and Khloe is age nine. They all start with K’s. All of my four children attended Lyman High School, just as their dad had. And I have five grandchildren altogether. I lost Fred about a year ago, but I stayed busy and I have an active life. I meant to mention my granddaughters, Katie and Addie, now in their twenties. They don’t have any children yet. And one other little addition, I forgot to explain my teaching job sort of. I didn’t really go into that very much. But I did mention the old Lyman, when I had the base… Youngers Basement classroom? Bistline Yes. Thank you. [laughs] That was first through 12th grades, but then they started building new schools, so I went home and waited. I was inclined—I kept taking leaves to have family, and I taught one year at the old Lake Mary Elementary, which is also now gone. It was about 1957, I think it was. Then I taught at Altamonte Elementary for a lot of years—I figured, around 1966, but I’m not going to be able to remember it for sure—until I opened my private school in 1985. And had that for 11 years, and then I decided to retire. I don’t think I taught after that. I may have gone back to public school. I don’t remember. But anyway, I now serve on the Seminole County Historic Commission, and the Board of the Seminole County Historic Society, which I enjoy. And I’m interested in history, even though I hated it when I was in high school. That’s it. Youngers Is that all you have? Bistline That’s all I have. Youngers Alright, well thank you so much, Mrs. Bistline. Bistline Thank you for being patient with me. Youngers Absolutely. Bistline I was writing things and realizing how long I was writing and how much I was writing. And I thought, This is terrible. [laughs] Youngers Oh, it’s fine. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Santa Clara Elementary School. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Wyandotte chickens. </div> </div> Coverage Bradlee-McIntyre House, Longwood, Florida Florida Southern College, Lakeland, Florida Longwood, Florida Lyman School, Longwood, Florida Addy Niemeyer Adeline Alvina Niemeyer Alpha Delta Pi Altamonte Elementary School Bicentennial Parade Boy Scouts of America Carolyn Bistline Central, South Carolina Charlie Stum chickens City League Building Clouser Coca-Cola Coral Gables Downtown Miami Early Childhood Education elementary schools Fairvilla Florida Farm Bureau Florida Southern College Footprints Frances Neiemeyer Francis Bistline Francis Bistline Stephen Fred Bistline Hettie Catherine Hollis high schools Hink Hiram Ulysses Grant Jane Bistline Jane Bistline Reardon Jane Reardon John Aaron Bistline, Sr. John Bistline, Jr. John Leland Bistline Josiah Clouser House Kamden Reardon Keegan Reardon Keith Reardon Khloe Reardon Lake Mary Elementary School Lakeland Longwood Lyman High School Lyman School Mary Bistline Mary Carolyn Bistline Memphis, Tennessee Miami Miami Senior High School Minute Maid Corporation Museum of Seminole County History Oak Tree Preschool oak trees oaks Orr, Bill Paul Lovestrand Paul Stephen Pelzer, South Carolina pigeons Plymouth poultry preschools Robert E. Lee Junior High School Santa Clara Elementary School Seminole County Seminole County Historic Commission Seminole County Historical Society squabs Stephanie Youngers Stum’s Corner Ulysses S. Grant Walter Bistline, Jr. Women’s Club of Longwood World War II WWII Wyandotte chickens Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Daytona State College Collection Alternative Title DSC Collection Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Daytona State College (Fla.) Contributor <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/75" target="_blank">Volusia County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/84" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach Collection</a>, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html" target="_blank">History of Daytona State College</a>." Daytona State College. http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html. Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198" target="_blank">History</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198. Cumiskey, Kate. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/491915106" target="_blank">Surfing in New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing, 2010. Coverage Daytona State College-New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater, New Smyrna Beach, Florida New Smyrna Beach, Florida Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records contributed by the New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater campus of Daytona State College. Items in the collection focus on the history of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. In 1758, the first European settlers arrived in present-day New Smyrna Beach and Dr. Andrew Turnbull established the colony of New Smyrna. Most of the colony's settlers were from Greece, Italy, and Minorca, Spain. Turnbull planned for the town to produce hemp, sugarcane, indigo, and rum, but the colony quickly collapsed due to insect-born diseases and raids by nearby Native American tribes. Most of the survivors resettled in St. Augustine. In 1887, New Smyrna was incorporated. In 1892, Henry Morrison Flagler expanded his Florida East Coast Railway to the area, sparking growth in the city. During the Prohibition of the 1920s, New Smyrna served as a site for moonshine stills and hideouts for rum-runners. In 1947, the city was renamed New Smyrna Beach when it annexed Coronado Beach. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Wells, Erin Clark, Brandon Interviewee Clancy, Matt Location <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/maps/southmap.html" target="_blank">Daytona State College-New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus</a> in New Smyrna Beach, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 16 minutes and 53 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 160kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Matt Clancy Alternative Title Oral History, Clancy Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Oral history--United States Surfing--United States Surfers--United States Surfboards Sharks--Florida Restaurants--Florida Description An oral history with Matt Clancy, a surfer and the owner of <a href="http://www.clancyscantina.com/" target="_blank">Clancy's Mexican Cantina</a>. Clancy moved to New Smyrna Beach, Florida, in 1962 when his father, a member of the United States Air Force, relocated to Central Florida. Clancy began teaching himself how to surf at age six. His six older brothers, as well as friends Mike Martin and Tommy Wright, also helped Clancy learn. As a child, Clancy joined the Smyrna Surfari Club, a social organization founded in 1979 in New Smyrna Beach. He was also a member of the Eastern Surfing Association (ESA) and the National Scholastic Surfing Association (NSSA) and participated in numerous competitions in Florida, Texas, North Carolina, and California. Other topics discussed in the oral history include memories of Central Florida, surfboards, surfing in difficult weather conditions, sharks and shark attacks, surfing injuries, and Clancy's restaurant. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:05 Central Florida 0:01:40 Young surfer - siblings 0:02:12 Joining Surfari Club 0:03:18 Surfboards and surfing 0:05:00 Other activities 0:05:20 Competitions 0:06:20 Travel with surfing 0:07:07 Surfing conditions 0:07:40 Marine life 0:09:38 Injuries 0:10:52 Beach life 0:12:39 Positives and negatives of surfing 0:14:08 High school on Barracuda Boulevard 0:14:10 Clancy's specials Abstract Oral history interview of Matt Clancy. Interview conducted by Erin Wells and Brandon Clark at Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Clancy, Matt. Interview by Erin Wells and Brandon Clark. Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus. July 25, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a>, New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a>, New Smyrna Beach, Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/85" target="_blank">Daytona State College Collection</a>, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Clancy's Mexican Cantina, New Smyrna Beach, Florida North Carolina Galveston, Texas San Diego, California Creator Wells, Erin Clancy, Matt Publisher <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College </a> Contributor Ayers, Kevin Panilaitis, Chris Massey, Rachel Wells, Erin Clark, Brandon LeDoux, Lianne Gibbs-Log, Madi Date Created 2013-07-25 Date Modified 2014-02-11 Format video/m4v Extent 90.9 MB Medium 16-minute, 53-second audio/video recording Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Erin Wells and Matt Clancy and published by the Daytona State College <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to the resource is held by <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="https://www.daytonastate.edu/maps/nsbmap.html" target="_blank">Daytona State College New Smyrna-Edgewater Campus</a> External Reference Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. Cumiskey, Kate. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/491915106" target="_blank">Surfing in New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing, 2010. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/198/History" target="_blank">History</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. http://www.cityofnsb.com/198/History. "<a href="http://smyrnasurfariclub.com/" target="_blank">About the Club</a>." Smyrna Surfari Club. http://smyrnasurfariclub.com/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/iAiIIZgAY3c" target="_blank">Oral History of Matt Clancy</a> Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> 13th Avenue Ayers, Kevin Barracuda Boulevard Berger, Heather Clancy, Matt Clancy's Mexican Cantina Clark, Brandon Crawford Road Eastern Surfing Association Erin Wells ESA Gibbs-Log, Madi Gordon Gordon & Smith Grigas, Carol S. History Skill Building Project LeDoux, Lianne Martin, Mike Massey, Rachel McNair, Kem National Scholastic Surfing Association New Smyrna Beach New Smyrna Beach High School NSBHS NSSA oral history Orion Panilaitis, Chris restaurant shark Shark Capital of the World Smith Smyrna Surfari Club Squashtail Surfari Club surfboard surfer surfing Thirteenth Avenue Wells Wright, Thomas D. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/85b20fcd21a4770ae303f58fecc92c7e.pdf d474090e15b97704aa950c0da4f7b14d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection Alternative Title Lone Sailor Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) United States. Navy Navy Sailors--United States Description Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando. Contributor <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Michael Partain Alternative Title Oral History, Partain Subject Veterans--Florida Navy Orlando (Fla.) Description An oral history interview of Michael Partain (b. 1968), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War Era. Partain was born at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina on January 30, 1968. He enlisted in the Navy on January 2, 1988, but was disqualified due to illness on February 20. During his short service, Partain trained at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). This oral history interview was conducted by Amanda Hill on March 6, 2014. Interview topics include Partain's background, enlistment, basic training, advanced training at the Nuclear Propulsion School, the effect of the Navy's presence in Central Florida on the region, NTC Orlando, training, his illness and subsequent qualification, and life after leaving the Navy. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:29 Background 0:01:40 Enlistment 0:04:00 Naval Training Center Orlando and Nuclear Propulsion School 0:06:02 Naval presence in Central Florida 0:08:08 Illness and disqualification 0:11:18 Basic training, group mentality, and team-building 0:23:16 Social life and lessons learned 0:25:48 Routine, classes, and Uniform Military Code of Justice 0:28:48 Most difficult aspect of boot camp and proudest moment 0:31:50 Post-Navy life, breast cancer, and Tetrachloroethylene contamination 0:37:07 Lessons learned from the Navy 0:39:07 Legacy of NTC Orlando 0:43:25 Navy hospital 0:45:06 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Michael Partain. Interview conducted by Amanda Hill at Partain's home in Orlando, Florida, on March 6, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 47-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a>. Interviewed by Amanda Hill, March 6, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014905, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina Winter Haven, Florida Recruit Training Center Orlando, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Creator Partain, Michael Hill, Amanda Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Van Zandt, Carli Date Created 2014-03-06 Date Modified 2014-09-01 Date Copyrighted 2014-03-06 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 406 MB 223 KB Medium 47-minute and 17-second DVD audio/video recording 23-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Amanda Hill and Michael Partain. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/284/rec/1" target="_blank">Partain, Michael</a> Transcript Hill Today is March 6th, 2014. I’m interviewing Mike Partain, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Amanda Hill, and with me is [Carolyn] “Carli” Van Zandt running the camera. We are interviewing today Mr. [laughs] Mike Partain, as part of UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at Mike’s home in Orlando, Florida. Hill Mr. Partain, will you please start off by telling us, uh, where and when you were born? Partain I was born at, uh, Camp Lejeune Marine Corps Base in North Carolina in January of 1968. Hill So your parents were in the service? Partain And[?] my father was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate and a Marine Officer. Hill In North Carolina? Partain Uh, yeah, he served in the Marine Corps, uh, in North Carolina. Hill And so what did your mom do for a living? Partain Uh, my mother was a housewife. Uh, she’s a French Canadian from the providence of Quebec[, Canada], and they met when he was, uh, in the training crews at the Naval Academy. Hill Do you have any brothers or sisters? Partain I have one sister, uh, born in Bethesda Naval Hospital<a title="">[1]</a> in 1970. Hill And growing up, where did you go to school? Partain Uh, well, after my father, uh, resigned his commission from the Marine Corps, we moved to, uh, Central Florida—Polk County. Hill How old were you when he resigned? Partain Uh, four years old. Hill So you moved here pretty early? Partain Yeah, I’ve been here pretty much all my life. This is—this is home. Uh, Camp Lejeune’s pretty much just a name on a birth certificate. Hill Were your par—were your—was your father involved in the Navy—the Navy at all when he moved here? Partain No, no. He was out of the service by then. Hill Okay. So what did you do before you entered the Navy? Partain Um, I was a college student. Uh, went to Florida State University for my first year of college and, um, didn’t do too well my first year, and when my father got my report card, uh, he informed me that I was on my own. Hill [laughs] Okay. Partain That’s why I joined the Navy. Hill So that’s why you joined the Navy. Partain Yeah. Hill Alright. So how old were you at that time? Partain Uh, I was 19. Hill 19. So why the Navy? What… Partain Well, the—we’re a military family. My grandfather had, uh, served in the Marine Corps. Um, my father was in the Naval Academy and graduated 1966, and, uh, served in the Marine Corps of his commission. So going to the Navy was an opportunity. I, uh, saw a lot of different opportunities I can do in the Navy—pay for my education. That was my main thing was to get my college paid for, since, uh, I didn’t do too well my first year. Hill What were you looking to study? Partain Um, actually, I went in to the Tampa MET [Military Entrance Test] center<a title="">[2]</a> for the, um, [clears throat]—for testing and did the ASVAB [Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery] test—scored very well—and they pulled me aside and asked me if I would take the nuc—nuclear test for Nuclear Propulsion School in the Navy, which I did and scored, uh, very high on that. High enough that the commanding officer of the MET center came to me and asked if I would sign an enlistment contract right away, and I said, “No,” and that I was—that I wanted to think about it first, because I wasn’t totally sure that I wanted to go into the military, and I made the mistake of mentioning my father being, uh—was a Naval Academy graduate, and he ended up calling my father, and, uh, the two of them got together, uh, and I didn’t have a chance. I ended up signing my enlistment contract about an hour later. Hill Wow, so pretty easy decision? Partain Uh, yeah, it was. I mean I delayed my enlistment. This was in April 1987, when I was still, um—actually, uh, I had just got home from college and, um, I delayed my enlistment until January of 1988. Hill Why delay? Partain Just wanted to go in the winter months. I—I don’t like the summer. So I didn’t want to run around in the summer and do PT [physical training] in the summertime. Hill Makes sense. Partain [coughs]. Hill So where did you attend boot camp? Partain Well, I joined the Navy to go see the world, and I ended up travelling about 45 miles north of where I lived and grew up in Orlando, Florida, at the Orlando Naval Training Center. Hill [laughs] Right. Were you, uh, looking to be trained then in a specific career at that point or were they looking to train you in a specific career? Partain Yeah, I was accepted into the Nuclear Propulsion School for the Navy, and I had to complete my basic training and then A School after that, which were both, at that time—both housed at the Orlando Naval Training Center, uh, here in Orlando. Hill Can you tell me more about the nuclear propulsion? Partain Well, um, I didn’t get that far. Um, uh, basically, from my understanding with the school, once I completed, uh, basic, I was gonna go into A School at the Nu—uh, Nuclear Propulsion School, and—which, um, I—if I completed that, I did a six-year hitch as part of the contract, and if I completed the school, then I would have gone into the fleet as an E[nlisted Rank]-3, which would have been Petty Officer [sniffs]. Hill Okay. So that specific school—what are they—what do they do? Partain Uh, they train the engineers to run the, uh, nuclear propulsion systems for the Navy’s aircraft carriers, uh, and sub—uh, submarines that are nuclear-powered, and it’s a promising career path. It opens up a lot of doors. It was very tough. Academically, it was a very stringent program. If you failed, uh, out of the program, then you went into the fleet and served the rest of your hitch [sniffs]. Hill What—what were you hoping to do with that? Partain Um, it was going to be a skill for me. Um, Open the doors, uh, to—you know, to have a trade and, uh, also go to college. Uh, my plan was to finish college, once I graduated—uh, once I completed my hitch in the Navy, and then take the expertise I had learned in the Navy, along with a—hopefully, a degree in nuclear engineering, uh, and go work in a private industry. Hill Okay. So then—so you began your training at NTC [Naval Training Center Orlando] in January of 1988? Partain Yes. Hill Correct? Okay. So you were pretty familiar then with the region, right? [inaudible]. Partain As far as Florida? Yes. Hill Yes, um, [laughs] so were you… Partain I joined the Navy and see world, and go right into my own back yard. So… Hill Right. Were you familiar with the Navy’s presence in Orlando already? Partain Yes, I mean, I—growing up here, you know, the—growing up in Florida, especially, uh, at my age, and when the—the telltale signs of World War II are still all over Florida. Uh, Most of your airports are former Army or Navy Train—, uh, naval, um—Sorry. Most of your airports are former Army or naval training centers for the pilots during World War II, like Sebring [Regional Airport]. Even McCoy [Air Force Base] airfield, which is now the [Orlando] International Airport, was a training field, uh, during World War II. So, you know, there’s always been a military presence in Florida. Hill How—do you remember how you found out about that presence? Partain As far as—I mean, growing up, I mean, you see the bases. Um, you got NASJAX [Naval Air Station Jacksonville] up in Orlando.<a title="">[3]</a> You got [Naval Station] Mayport—I mean, sorry—NASJAX up in Jacksonville, and you got Mayport. You got Patrick Air Force Base, McCoy Air—I mean, uh, MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa. Um, as a child growing up, um, the flight path for the Air Force, uh, fighters, to do practice bombing over in, um, Avon Park Bomber Range,<a title="">[4]</a> went over our house. After—every afternoon, we’d see [General Dynamics] F-16s [Fighting Falconfly] fly over and practice in Avon Park, and they’d come back, and sometimes they’d fly low, and, you know, you’d always see the military around growing up here. Hill Why do you think the Navy chose to locate a recruit training center in Central Florida? Partain Um, no idea, to be honest with you [laughs]. Um, I know during, uh—when a lot of military bases were here in Florida, or located here in Florida, because of the climate here allowed training year round, especially with the flying conditions. So—but as far as the Navy’s base in Orlando and the training center, um, I have no idea why they, uh, located it here. Hill That’s fair. Uh, so how long were you at NTC Orlando? Partain Well, um, I arrived in January, uh,—I think it was January 2nd, 1988, and I went through the first part of basic training. I made it through about four weeks—almost my fifth week—into, uh, training at, uh, NTC Orlando, And I broke out in a rash. Um, One of the curious things is it was a rash that I was born with at Camp Lejeune. Um, and periodically through my life, whenever—like if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, or, thing—you know, was around chemicals and stuff, I’d break out. Well, I broke out in this rash, and they couldn’t figure out why or where it was coming from. Uh, because normally, I could control it, um, and it just didn’t want to go away. So the Drill Instructor, [clears throat] um, sent me down to the infirmary—the—the naval hospital, and they held me there for, uh, about a week or so, and tried to figure out what was wrong. They finally came up and said that, uh, I was, uh—because of the rash, that I was going to be disqualified for my program… Hill Mmm. Partain Uh, in the Nuclear Power School. Hill Did they know what it was at that point? Partain No, uh, they just called it an “atopic dermatitis.” Uh, and they informed me that it made in ineligible to go to the Nuclear Power School. So I ended up, uh—they asked me if I wanted to stay in the fleet, but that meant chipping paint for the six years I was gonna be in the Navy. So I asked them to go ahead and send me home and, uh, end my enlistment at that point, which they, uh, gave me my uniform. I went home as an E3, so I dressed up in my Navy blues, and got my sea bag, and, uh, they sent me home, but, uh, [clears throat] the, um, wha—during that time that they told me I was going home to the time I went home, they put me in what they called a “medical hold company,” where it was—I was taken out of my training regimen, and then put into a, uh, barrack, where other people who had been medically disqualified—they kind of let us sit there for a while. It was about two weeks before they told me, uh, that I had my orders to go home, and that—that’s another—I’ll tell you about that later. Hill So what was it like when you found out that you had to leave the Navy? Partain Well, um, I mean, the—the, uh—it was a disappointment, because I really had looked forward into getting into the career. Um, I had volunteered to do submarine duty, which was an extra pay, and, um, you know, to me, this was going to be my livelihood. Something—a school and trade that I could pick up and, uh, um, learn, and spend—you know, be able to make a career for the rest of my life with. So I was kind of left with the, um, uh—you know, I ended up coming home, and having to refigure my life and what I was going to do, and I ended up, uh—actually I ended up going to work for [Walt] Disney World after that, and I worked at Disney World for three years while I put myself through college [clears throat]. Hill So let’s back up a bit… Partain Mmhmm. Hill To when you first got to the—the base. Um, what were your first impressions? Partain Well, um, you know, it’s intimidating. I mean, you’re coming off civilian life, even though I grew up in a military—military family. Um, nothing prepares you for the shock of going into the world of, uh, you know—of—of the military. It’s a totally different experience. Um, the first shock is your lose your individuality. Uh, and that was, uh—that was the hardest thing for me to get used to—is the fact that you had to assimilate yourself into their world and their program, and, um, you know, you lost the—the “me” part of yourself, for at least awhile. Hill Can you tell me more about that? What specifically caused those changes? Partain [clears throat] Well, I mean, the first thing they do—they bring you in and you line up. Um, you know, they issue you a uniform, um, and it’s an assembly line. You’re given, uh, you know, your boots, eh, and all your gear, and you have to stencil your name on the gear and, uh—and your sea bag, and, um, and then they, uh, shave all your hair off. Uh, they, uh, you know—just going through that is, eh—it’s more—like I said, it’s an assembly line type of impersonal, um—uh, the impersonal, um, process, because, I mean, you’re—you’re moved from one place to another and, you know, you gotta, uh—eh, you just get to feel like you’re a cow sometimes, um, and, uh the other, you know—the other thing is the—as you go in and you’re all wearing the same clothes, you all look the same. So everybody is the same, and that’s what I mean by “lose your individuality,” and, uh, then, you know, once you get into the barracks that begins the training process, which one of the first things they start doing is breaking down the individual and starting to form a unit. Because, you know, everybody—when everyone’s acting individually, you know—you have your own routines and stuff like that, and one of the first things [laughs] I remember—I knew this was going to happen, uh, because my dad had warned me, but, uh, everyone settled down for the night, and one of the first memories—and it was funny, because it just totally, uh, unnerved me—was, uh, I think, at about three o’clock in the morning, uh, the, uh—the DI [Drill Instructor] came in and threw the trash can down the barrack hall, making all kinds of rackets and screaming, “Get on the line! Get on the line!” And, um, I remember getting—getting up and, um, getting on the line in front of the barracks, and, you know, we’re in our skivvies and socks, and I’m sitting there shaking, and, um, I’m thinking, you know, What the hell? What the hell have I done? Because I don’t like getting up at three o’clock in the morning. Hill [laughs]. Partain I don’t think anybody really does, especially when someone’s screaming at you and throwing a—a metal trash can down the—down the barrack, uh, hallway, and if you don’t—the—the trash cans being metal, makes a hell of a lot of noise, especially in a barrack on a tile floor. So that was the—that was the first morning of recruit training, and, um, they had a lot of different things in store for us as we, uh, went through this process. So it was—some of it was humorous. Um, I knew the purpose of it, which was, you know, some people—some of the guys didn’t do well with it, but, you know, I kinda laughed with some of the stuff that they were doing. Hill So life in the barracks then—if everyone’s the same, how does that affect the group dynamic? Partain Well, I mean, you still have people that look out for themselves. That’s the big thing is, when you get people who just don’t—you know, they’re used to taking care of themselves and, um, not—not thinking as a community. Because the whole purpose of the training is to get you thinking beyond yourself, to work as a team, to work together. Um, like one of the first things that happened, um, when we, you know—we had to march together and they had to form us together and started doing things, of course everyone’s going off in different directions. Um, and I remember one morning, we went out and did PT—running around. and, um, came back, and everything that everybody owned at the barracks, uh, including, uh, the mattresses, the actual bunk racks—everything was heaped up into this massive mountain in the middle of the barracks. and we all walked in and we’re just looking at this. You know, everything we had was in—in the middle of the barracks, and the, of course, the DI comes out screaming at us, you know, uh, “Get this shit together!” You know, “Get this place in order and get it squared up and you’ve got 15 minutes, and, I mean, eh, the—we all looked at each other like, What the hell? So everyone dove[sic] in and people were calling out names and, you know, “I’ve got such and such.” and we’re spreading[?] out trying to get the barracks back up, and of course, we didn’t do it in 15 minutes, which proceeded to have more pushups and things like that that we had to do, because of that. Uh, the—once we get it squared away, it happened again, and, uh, later on, when it happened again, we did get it done in 15 minutes. Hill Are there any other examples of training experiences that helped shaped your relationships with other recruits in your class? Partain Uh, well, just—I mean, everything that we did. I mean, from the marching, I remember, um—uh, I didn’t—I don’t’ keep my step very well, so I had a hard time learning how to keep in step, and, uh, the guy next to me was trying to show me how to skip to keep back, you know—to get myself back into step. For some reason, I have no rhythm. So I just—I was just constantly out of step, and I would try to march on the outside, um—on the edge of the sidewalk, so that that way I wouldn’t be seen as much, but never failed. I always got called out for that, but one of the other things they had, uh—one morning, we had inspection and they called in all the, uh, company commanders. The DIs came in and proceeded to rip the place apart, uh, while we’re standing there on the line. and they would come up to each recruit—and it didn’t matter how clean or how great you had your rack—your stuff stowed—there was always something wrong, and in my case, um, uh, I didn’t make my bed very well. Uh, and they ripped my sheet off, and the DI came up to me—I’m six-foot -two—and my DI was—I think he was probably five-foot-eight or—I mean, he would’ve done really well in the submarine. Um, But he came up to me and threw the sheet over my head, and was screaming at me and says, “You can’t make you’re fucking bed!” And he goes, “How old are you recruit?” “Nineteen, sir,” and he goes, “You are Casper the Catch Edge Ghost. You are to go around to each recruit in this command and walk up to them and raise the sheet and go, ‘Boo. I am Casper the Catch Edge Ghost.’ And put your sheet down and go to the next person. Raise your sheet and go, ‘Boo. I’m Casper the Catch Edge Ghost,’” and I had to do that the entire barrack for the, uh—for the company there, which I—you know, you can’t laugh, and I—inside, I’m laughing my ass off, because—I mean, to me, it’s hilarious, but if you laughed, it just makes it a lot worse. So I proceeded to do that, and, um, you know, they, uh—and to this day, I don’t make my bed [laughs], and it’s for—ever since then, I do not make my bed, but, um, I had to, um—I just, uh, —it’s one of those things that—it stuck with me, I guess, but, uh, stuff like that—I mean, we had, um, you know—people didn’t have their stuff stenciled right, so they to, uh—they made them fix that. Just little things, and going through and—this process: they come in and they work on people and break them down, and then start building back up as a team, and over time, start marching together and you start doing activities, um, and things like that to—to get to work together as a team, and, um—the people who are struggling, you start to see your leaders step up to help them and, you know, get them in line, because the ones that were having problems—then they started getting, you know, pressure put on them, because they weren’t, you know, keeping up. Like, you know, I learned how to march and, you know, thankfully learned how to skip to catch my step and would get myself back in line, but, uh, you know, there are some guys that struggle with that. They didn’t know how to do it or they were intimidated by it, um, and, you know, you start to work together, so that they can’t get you. Meaning—“they” meaning the drill instructors, and, um, that—that was the neat part to see—everyone start to coalesce together and work together. Hill When—do you remember a specific moment or a specific activity that you really started to notice that team coalescing? Partain Um, I would say the, uh—we had one time, where[sic] we had a head inspection, and, um, no one liked cleaning the bathrooms, and it’s, you know—in the Navy, the head is your bathroom. So we had a head inspection and, um, you know, everyone pretty much—we knew what was going to happen if we didn’t get it clean. So everyone just dropped everything, ran in there, got it cleaned up, cleaned up, picked up. I remember, um, for some reason, I remember doing—clearing behind one of the toilets with a toothbrush—Not—and not one we were using, but one that we had assigned for cleaning and stuff—and trying to get everything out and spic and span, and, um, that was nice to see that, because, at that point, everyone, you know—everyone was working as a team, and, uh, um, the last part of the training was where you saw the—the team-building. Uh, unfortunately, I didn’t make it past, um, my fifth week, so I didn’t get to do some of the other stuff that they did—firefighting together and other things that I didn’t get to—get to participate in. Hill Right. Partain Um… Hill What would you pinpoint as some of those qualities that really helped bring the team together—that transformation? Partain Well, I mean, the, uh—the qualities is the—it’s the individual learning that they’re not the center of the universe, and that’s one of the things, uh—basic training in the military is to break down the individuality, to have people understand that, you know, you’re—you’re part of something, and the world doesn’t revolve around you. Uh, some people get it quicker than others. Those that do, do very well in the military. Some never get it, but, uh, that was one thing that, uh—that they, you know—everything was designed to do that. Uh, to do it to break down the civilian and then recast him as a—as person who could think in a military world, because, when it comes down to it, one, you now—in the military world, there is a chain-of-command—a hierarchy—and you are expected to follow orders, and there could be times that something could be going on, and you’re given an order, and, as a civilian, you might question it and be like, Well, I don’t feel like doing that right now, and you can’t do that in the military, because someone may tell you to do something, um, like shut a door and secure the door, because there’s a fire, and if you start arguing with them, then the fire might spread out beyond the compartment and—and jeop—jeopardize the ship and everybody on it. So part of the—that training is to get people to understand, you know, hey, there’s a time, you know—the time to be a civilian is when you’re off duty, but when you’re—when you’re on duty, you have your military bearing, you have—you follow it, and you, you know—you work for the good of the unit. Hill When you were off duty, was there ever any sort of social life with… Partain Oh, when I was in training… Hill Amongst the recruits? Partain No, no. There’s no liberty or leave—li—liberties really. There was no liberty, uh, in training. Um, the liberty took place when you graduated from boot camp. Um, so I did not get that experience. Uh, once—once I went into the medical hold company, and I stayed there, and, um, you know, that—that—once I got out, then I went home and that was it. So, uh, one of the funny things that happened—um, my father and grandfather both sent in birthday cards for me, uh, while I was in training, and, uh—which normally wouldn’t be a problem, but they were being smartasses and they signed their card—they put in the address of the card—my father put down: “Captain Warren B. Partain, Jr., USNC” —I’m sorry—uh, “USNA class of ’66,” and, uh—and then my grandfather put, uh: “Major Warren B. Partain, Sr., USNC, retired,” and, um, the DIs, of course, got the letters and they called me up to the office, and, uh, you had to walk up to the office, you had to bang on the door and announce who you were, and then asked permission to enter in, and, uh, so I get into the office and, um, I see the birthday cards in my DI’s hand, and he goes, “So your father was a—was a ring banner?” And I knew right then what my dad had done. The “ring banner” is a term—a derogatory term—for a Naval Academy graduate. So he goes, “Drop and give me 20.” [laughs] So—and he goes—of course, that wasn’t good enough, so I ended up doing like I think 60 or 70 pushups. Um, and of course, you know, that was because of what my grandfather and father had done, but, um, it was their amusement [laughs], but he wasn’t a mean guy. I mean, they started to like me. They’re not, um—it’s not like they’re sadists or anything like that—the drill instructors. They do it for a purpose, and then, you know. As you mature and things like that, you get to see what they’re trying to do and they really begin to teach you. Hill What would you say that purpose is [inaudible]? What were they trying to teach you? Partain Well, I mean, how to conduct yourself in a military fashion. A military bearing. Hill Okay. Partain Like one of the things—one of the things I still remember is to make sure my gig line is straight. Um, you know, when you get dressed and, uh, get everything together, your buttons line up with your belt—the edge of your belt buckle and your—and your zipper, so you have what’s called a “gig line.” It goes straight up from—from your neck down to your crotch [laughs]. Hill So what was daily life like as a Navy recruit? Partain Well, everything was structured. I mean, you got in the—in the training, you got up at a certain time, you ate at a certain time, uh, you PTed at a certain time, uh, You had training and different things, uh, at—at different, um—at different times, and then they put you to bed. So you had no choice. I mean, very little free time. The only time we really got free time was laying in the rack before you went to sleep. Hill Who did you interact with on a daily basis? Partain Um, well, they kept you too busy. so you talked to your, um—your, you know—your bunkmate and the people around you, but for the most part you’re doing what they—they put in classes and they teach, you know—they—one of the first things they start teaching you is the UCMJ for the Univer[sic]—Univerm[sic] —Uniform Code Military Justice, which is the rules and regulations of the Navy. You know, how to salute, when to salute, um, how to march, uh, what you can and can’t do, um, And just, you know—it’s an emersion into a different life style. Hill Who were—you said you were taking classes, so who were your instructors? Partain Um, just other, uh—other, um—sometimes they were other Dis, sometimes they were, uh, just other people on the base. Um, No one that I really remember specifically. Hill Okay. Do you remember any of your specific classes? Partain Um, like I said, most of it— like the UCMJ. One of the funny ones, uh—probably not appropriate for this, but it’s one of those things that stuck in your mind. We’re sitting there showing slides and talking about the UCMJ, and they had, um—they had this slide come up, and it was on a pink background. It had a sailor sitting down, and on his lap, he had a dog, and there was a big circle with a line through [laughs] it for no bestiality, and I about but laughing when I saw it. Hill [laughs]. Partain But they had—I mean, just stupid things like that, but, uh, the, uh, you know— when they start getting to the later weeks, like I said, they—[inaudible]—they—they’d have you march, and there was a lot of drill to get you to un—to get your body into the routines, and then later on, you start doing more class work, and, um, they, uh—like I said, they—they—one of the big things was firefighting. We are out doing firefighting duty, and then they have one a week, where you’re working KP [kitchen patrol] duty and stuff like that for the kitchen. Hill Uh, Could you clarify for me what, um—the acronym UCMJ? Partain University[sic] Code of Mil—Universal[sic] Code of Military Justice. <a title="">[5]</a> It’s the law for the military. So the military has its own, um—basically its own judicial system, uh, that’s separate from the civilian one. So they administer their own laws, and, uh, courts, and everything. So, like if I did something wrong, then I could be, uh—they have what’s called a “captain’s mast” or “court-martialing.” and your—whatever infraction, then you’ll assess whatever penalty or—or, uh, punishment that they have. Hill So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at NTC? Partain The hardest thing that I remember doing, um—I dunno. it was probably just the, um—I’m tempted to say—well, the—well, the thing that I didn’t like the most—that was hard or difficult for me—was in the military—medical hold company. Um, this—this was once they disqualified me from service. They put me in a limbo, um, where I didn’t know when I was going home. I didn’t know what was really going on, other than the fact that they were—they, uh—that I was being disqualified from the Navy, and they told me that, you know, it takes some time and it could take a couple days, a couple months. So I’m like, you know—no one likes to be in limbo, and they would have you do stupid stuff, Just to have you do it. Uh, like we went in to one barrack and we scrubbed the whole barrack with hand brushes, on our hands and knees, and it was just, um—stuff like that. That was, you know, trying not to get negged out. Um, that was the hardest thing for me. I mean, to me, the training is easy. Um, you know, doing the physical activities, the running, uh, the marching, the learning. That was easy and it didn’t bother me. I mean, I enjoyed, um, the challenge of that. The hard part for me was when I realized that I was not going to be able to stay in the Navy, Having to wait, and then wait for the bureaucracy to process—process me out. Yeah. Hill Before we move on to that moment, um—because I do want to talk about that—can you tell me one moment where you felt really proud of your work in NTC? Partain Um, the—I think the proudest moment—I still have it—is, uh, my photograph. Um, they brought us in after we shaved us, and we’re all cleaned up, and they dressed us up, and they marched us in, and we took our photograph with the American flag behind us, uh, so we could send it home to Mom and Dad, and that to me was the proudest moment. Um, I—I still have that photograph. I have it on my Facebook page, and, um, I keep that, and, uh, you know—yeah[?]. It’s just a little snot-nosed kid in his little sailor’s uniform, but it—to me, that was something that I could show that hey, you know, I’m serving my country. I’m doing what’s right and trying to make, you know, things a little bit better than when I found it. Hill Did you send it home to mom and dad? Partain Oh, yeah. Hill What’d they say? Partain I think, uh—I mean, ma—they wrote me back, and I had a girlfriend, at the time too, and she wrote me. I had letters from her, um, on a daily basis. I still got them, and, uh, the, uh—I’ve got a stack of letters about that thick that she wrote to—back and forth, and that was nice, you know, to have someone writing back and forth. It—it kind of killed the monotony. You’d look forward to—you know, that was you’re little piece of individ—individuality. You get your letter and mail call and—and to read that, and, uh—but yeah. I sent that home to Mom and Dad, and my girlfriend. Hill So when did you leave the Navy then? Partain Yeah, I was, um—it was—I don’t remember the exact day, Um, but it was in February, uh, of ’88. It was roughly about two months after I’d got there. I think I served just under 60—60 days, or somewhere close to 60 days, and, um, basically they came in and told me to collect my gear, um, get my dress blues on, and they sent me home. See, when I enlisted, I enlisted, instead of as a, uh—um, going in as a seamen, I would have—when I completed everything, I would have come out as a, uh, Petty Officer—an E-3. So, um, they allowed me to go home with a—with that uniform and that rank, which is kinda nice, you know? It was funny, ‘cause everyone else were[sic] being sent off, and I get my orders and am being put on a bus. They asked me if I wanted to go on a bus, or I think it was a train to Water Haven, and I said, uh, “Just drop me off at the airport.” I called my mom and dad and told them to come get me, because the airport’s, you know, 45 minutes from my parent’s house. Because a bus would have taken like 3 hours to get there. So I had them drop me off at the airport, and I played video games [laughs] for about two hours while I waited for my parents to come get me, but it was nice to, you know, walk around the airport in the—in my uniform and get home, and I saw my girlfriend in my uniform and that, uh—that’s always fun. Hill Um, so have you—what did you do once you left? Partain Um, well, once I was out of the Navy, I went back to college. Um, of course, the—my plan of having the Navy, uh, as a career and paying for my college that way kind of fell through. Um, I went to work for Disney World, and, uh, finished my AA [Associate of Arts] degree, and then transferred up to Florida State University and married my girlfriend, and I completed my degree up there, and, uh, you know, worked my way through college. Made me appreciate my education a lot more, and, uh, one of the things ironic things and—that happened—and it kind of comes back full circle with NTC Orlando—um, seven years ago, I was diagnosed with, uh, male breast cancer. Oddly enough, my birthplace was extremely contaminated with, um, drinking water—I mean, uh, solvents in the drinking water, and one of those solvents is called Tetrachloroethylene, which is used in dry-cleaning, and it’s linked to breast cancer. Um, whenever I was a child growing up, I would break out into the rash I told you about, because—well, shortly after I was diagnosed, I went back, and I remembered my experience at NTC Orlando, and the fact that I had broken out in this rash after, uh, I had gotten on base. So I looked up the base, and like Camp Lejeune, NTC Orlando was declared a Superfund<a title="">[6]</a> site, um, uh, partly because of the Tetrachloroethylene dumped from the base drycleaner, which was located right next to the barracks, where I was housed as an enlisted, uh, sailor, uh—seaman—in, uh—in 1988, and the base was actually closed down in 1995, um, and listed in—into the Superfund site at that time, which, uh—it’s one of those odd things that I always wondered about is: how bad was the base contaminated? Because, soon as I got home, the rash that I had broken out with, while I was in training, cleared up Hill Hm. Partain Without any—within days of being home, and, uh—and it never broke out like that again, like I did when I was on base, and [inaudible]—when I rented on base, I was fine, and, uh—so it’s one of those things that makes you wonder, and my understanding is that the—the, uh, base drycleaner—he said they had been dumping this chemical on the base and it was a plume of it that actually stretched underneath the recruit training barracks, like I said, and ended up, I think, in Lake Druid—is where the chemicals were coming out. Hill Did—was there ever any cleanup measures taken? Partain I don’t know. I didn’t look into that. I’ve been tied up with the Camp Lejeune issue since then, but one of these days, I’d like to go back. I’d heard some things that had happened here, but I didn’t follow the—the end results of, um, NTC Orlando after that. I know they closed the base down and I think the developed it—part of it as a private community.<a title="">[7]</a> And I heard there were some problems here, but, uh, you know, like I said, I didn’t really follow—follow up on it, but I thought I would mention it. Hill Did you keep in touch with anyone from the base? Partain Uh, one of the guys I enlisted with, um, actually, was a high school friend of mine. We both went into the Nuclear Power School together. Um, His name is Alex, and he was actually, um, accepted into the United States Naval Academy, like my father, and he still presently serves in the Navy. I believe he’s a Commander or a Captain now. I do not know his rank. I haven’t—I haven’t kept up with him the past couple of years, but I think he’s a commander. but he did serve—uh, he’s—he’s still serving, and, uh, actually got an appointment to the Naval Academy, which is one of—one of the things I was hoping to do myself. Hill Uh, so one of the things you mentioned earlier is that, um, the Navy teaches you that you’re a part of something larger. Partain Mmhmm. Hill Would you say that that’s something that you feel you’ve carried on to the [inaudible]? Partain Well, growing up in a military family, it’s always been indoctrinated into me for that. Um, Like I mentioned, I, you know, became involved in the Camp Lejeune issue mainly, uh, because, you know, I realized what had happened to me wasn’t unique, and I felt a responsibility to speak out and help the other Marines and families, which I’ve been doing for the past seven years. So, I mean, that’s—growing up in a military family, um, you know, you—it just—it’s service, God, honor, country. I’m mean, that’s the way I was raised, and when you go into the service, you’re taught God, honor, country. Hill Are there any other values or characteristics, um, of the Navy that you think transferred to the rest of your life, as well? Partain No, I mean, the God, honor, country is[sic] primarily the core principles with which I’ve tried to guide my life. Hill What would you say is the most valuable lesson you learned during your time at the Navy? Partain Um, probably, never give up. You know, you always—you always keep moving forward and just, you know, never give up. Hill Can you remember a time while you were, um, in training that you felt like giving up, but didn’t? Partain Um, got lonely. I mean, left my girlfriend behind and, uh, there was a time where—yeah. I was thinking, Okay. I’m going to be doing this, going off at sea for six months, and I don’t know if I like that, and, you know you just—you look back and say, Well, why did I join? I joined because I wanted to get an education, I wanted to get a trade, and, you know, the Navy’s going to provide that, and, you know, you—you quickly overcome those things. Feelings are temporary [sniffs]. Good and bad [sniffs]. Hill What do you think the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando or the Navy’s presence in Central Florida has been? Partain Well, the, um—for me—and understanding what I have come across, because of my, you know—because of the issue with breast cancer—it—unfortunately, I mean, NTC Orlando’s gone. Uh, it’s no longer there. The vestiges are still here, but what the Navy left behind underground, that is going to be here for years to come, and that’s something that really has not been addressed in a great deal with the community. Um, And sadly, that—in the end, that becomes the Navy’s legacy—is not for the good things they did, but for, you know, the irresponsibility for leaving toxic chemicals behind. Hill What actions would you like to see taken to resolve those issues? Partain Um, well, I’m not familiar totally with the issue to—to see what they’ve done. I know, as part of the bra—uh, Superfund site, they’re required to cleanup. Um, to what extent they’ve cleaned up, I don’t know. Uh, there’s a lot of different laws and, uh, different, um, procedures in place, but, in the end, you know, that—that’s something the Navy, um—well, I don’t know what to say on that. Sorry. I got distracted. The ADHD [attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder] is killing me here. Hill [laughs] That’s alright. That’s alright. Partain But[?]… Hill Um, so… Partain It’d be—it would be nice to have… [phone rings] Partain We have a phone distraction here. Hill It would be nice to have… Partain Hm? Hill You were saying… Partain Okay. It would be nice to have an independent, um, historical analysis of what, you know—what the Navy did and exactly what the Navy legacy is. I mean, the—the infrastructure of the base is gone. Um, what’s left is the land that they owned on the base, and what did they leave behind on that land? and how will that affect the community? And sadly, you know, u, what was not cleaned up by the Navy, uh, will be there for some time to come and, you know, somebody’s gonna have to pay that cost. Hill So how do you think uh,—how is the NTC—well, you talked about how the base has changed. What about the region? Um, Central Florida as a whole. How do you think it’s been impacted since the base closed? Partain Well, the, um—I mean, the base itself, um, wasn’t a, uh, mega base, like you would have, say, with, um, Mayport Naval Station up in Jacksonville. Um, It had an impact on the community, uh, but not, you know—there wasn’t aircraft being serviced, um, there wasn’t[sic] ships and, you know, the contractors to work the ships and things, you know—servicing the ships or what have you. It’s a training center. So, uh—and I would say there was an economic impact. To what degree it was, I don’t know. Hill kay. Um, what do you think visitors would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit the site of the base? The [inaudible]. Partain Well, I haven’t been back since I left, and, um, I’ve driven by it a couple of times. Uh, there was a gaming store called Enterprise 1701 near the base, where I used to get my board games. That was a hobby I had, and I—it would be nice to go back and see the site, uh, of where the base was, and maybe something commemorating that it was here, and, uh, I am curious to go back and see and see—and see exactly what is there, uh, and what’s left, and what they’ve done with the, uh—with the base and the Superfund site stuff, ‘cause there’s[sic] things that I’m aware of because of my involvement with Camp Lejeune and being on Camp Lejeune, that, you know, when you go on base, you look at things, and unless you know what you’re looking at, you don’t know what it is. So I’m kind of curious to see what’s there on the base. Hill Did you ever go back? Partain No. Partain I understand that the old naval hospital is the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital now. Hill Now… Partain So I’d be curious to see that. Hill Were you ever at that hospital? Partain Yeah, that’s where I was… Hill That’s where you were disqualified. Partain Disqualified from service. They sent me to that hospital. I remember marching by myself with a chip, um, going down to the hospital, and, you know—and then, they were really puzzled, um, by what was happened with me. Matter of fact, I later got my me—my medical records from the Navy, and, uh, they were really puzzled why I broke out, because it was all over my arms and my face and was a blood red rash, and, um, they could not figure out what it was, and, uh, they kept asking all kinds of questions. They—they’re like, “Well, you had this when you si—when you signed up,” and I’m like, “Well, I was born with this, but it’s never been a problem like this,” and they said, “Well, how did you get passed recruit training or the recruit indoctrination and all that?” And I said, “Well, I wasn’t breaking out.” I said, “This is something that—normally, it comes and goes.” At the time, I thought it was, you know—in the wintertime, I’d break out or if I wore dry-cleaning clothes, and I thought, at the time, that it may have been the clothes—the polyester rubbing against my skin doing it. I had no idea that it could be anything else. Hill Right. Partain Because it would—I mean, I didn’t find out about what had happened to me at Camp Lejeune until, uh, 2007, which is 20 years after I joined. Hill Um, what was it like in the—the hospital—In the Navy hospital? Partain Um, just you’re standard, you know, ultra-clean hospital. Nothing—nothing special. Hill Nothing special? Okay. Uh, well, is there anything else you’d like to share about your Navy experience? Partain Um… Hill Anything you think I missed or we didn’t talk about? Partain No, I mean, it’s, like I said, the—I mean, for young people, the Navy—and in the military, in general, uh,—presents a lot of opportunities. You know, it’s not perfect. I could mention the contamination problem, with something present in the military especially during the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, but, you know, for young people, it’s an opportunity to start your life, to pick up something, uh, unique, to learn, and more importantly, it—it builds a sense of self-discipline inside you. ‘Cause it’s very easy to forget that, you know, there’s more to the world than just you, and serving in the military is productive. I mean, it—it gives you a respect for yourself, respect for others, respect for your country. Um, and, you know, it’s something that, you know—I think everyone should do as a citizen of this country, and, uh—I mean, that’s just, um—there’s a lot of positives that come out of it. Now, the leadership of the military—that’s another story. Hill What’s next for you? Partain Um, well, I’m 46, and, um, uh, for me, um, I worked my career, raised my children, and, uh, I’m going back to get my Master’s [degree] in history, and I’m actually going to be writing about and doing research with, uh, contaminated military bases, uh—is my—my career until I retire. Hill So your experience has really shaped where you’re headed? Partain Well, the, um—more my birthplace. The, uh—Because of what happened to me, uh, before I was born at a military base, but, you know, NTC Orlando is one of those curious things that, once I put two and two together, I looked at it, and eventually, I’ll do the research on it and—and learn what happened there, but right now, my focus is other places. Hill Well, thank you so much for your time. Partain Oh, you’re welcome. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Officially called the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> United States Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Jacksonville. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Avon Park Air Force Range. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Uniform Code of Military Justice. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980. </div> <div> <a title="">[7]</a> Baldwin Park. </div> </div> airports Amanda Hill Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery ASVAB atopic dermatitis Avon Park Avon Park Air Force Range basic training boot camps breast cancer captain's mast Carli Van Zandt Carolyn Van Zandt CERCLA cold war colleges Community Veterans History Project Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 contamination court-martial CVHP dermatitis DI disqualifications Drill Instructor E-3 education engineering engineers Enlisted Rank 3 enlistment Enterprise 1701 environmental cleanup F-16 General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon gig lines higher education Hill, Amanda hospitals illness illnesses inspections instructors Lake Druid Lone Sailor Memorial Project LSMP MacDill AFB MacDill Air Force Base marching Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune McCoy AFB McCoy Air Force Base medical hold company memorials MET Michael Partain military code military education Military Entrance Processioning Center Military Entrance Processioning Center Tampa Military Entrance Test military justice military training monuments NAS Jacksonville Naval Air Station Jacksonville Naval Station Mayport Naval Training Center Orlando NS Mayport NTC Orlando nuclear engineering nuclear power nuclear propulsion Nuclear Propulsion School orlando Petty Officer Polk County recruit training Recruit Training Command recruits ring banner Seaman special training Superfund Tetrachloroethylene toxic chemicals toxic cleanups U.S. Air Force UCMJ Uniform Code of Military Justice universities university veterans Warren B. Partain, Jr. Warren B. Partain, Sr. water contamination Winter Haven World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/37a9260cb413810aadf0359cf705293b.pdf 66b4b1fb5a6bf7e5a58e5a527e05413e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Rock Collection Alternative Title Rock Collection Subject Music--United States Rock music--United States Lakeland (Fla.) Maitland (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of rock music in Central Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Rock music is uniquely American, emerging in the late 1940s and 1950s, with the influence of African-American blues, jazz, boogie woogie, and gospel, mixed with predominantly white country and Western swing music. This hybrid genre helped define a generation, breaking down color barriers in the South by merging African musical traditions with European instrumentation. The popularization of rock music coincided with the African-American Civil Rights Movement, which sought to end racial segregation and discrimination in the South. The sudden interest of white teens in black “race music” provoked a backlash among traditionalists and Americans found themselves in the middle of a “culture war.” The counterculture youth of the 1950s and 1960s rejected many of the mainstream cultural standards of their parents’ generation, especially in regards to race. During the First and Second Great Migration of the 20th century, African Americans and whites began living in closer proximity to one another, more so than ever before, resulting in both races emulating the other’s style in fashion, art, and music. Rock music influenced the language, attitudes, ideas, and trends of a generation. The genre continued to evolve, incorporating new elements with each subsequent decade. During the 1960s, the subgenres of folk rock, jazz rock, country rock, blues rock, psychedelic rock, glam rock, and progressive rock emerged. Musicians in the 1970s and 1980s created punk rock, Southern rock, heavy metal, new wave, and alternative rock. By the 1990s, artist continued to expand the genre by creating rap rock, reggae rock, grunge, and indie rock. Florida has been at the heart of rock music and the “culture war” since the 1950s. The recording industry was actively making rock records in Tampa during the 1960s and in Miami during the 1970s. Gram Parsons, a native of Winter Haven, is credited as the father of the country rock movement of the late 1960s, and Southern rock emerged from Jacksonville during the 1970s and 1980s, with bands such as the Allman Brothers Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Outlaws, and Molly Hatchet. These contributions played an integral part in the history of rock music. Contributor Knickerbocker, Carl Wahl, Julie Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Type Collection Coverage Bob Carr Theater, Orlando, Florida Enzian Theater, Maitland, Florida Great Southern Music Hall, Orlando, Florida Lakeland Civic Center, Lakeland, Florida Orange County Civic Center, Orlando, Florida Orlando-Seminole Jai Alai Fronton, Fern Park, Florida Orlando Sports Stadium, Orlando, Florida Tangerine Bowl, Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Altschuler, Glenn C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51518334" target="_blank">All Shook Up: How Rock 'n' Roll Changed America</a>. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003. Fisher, Marc. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/69594101" target="_blank">Something in the Air: Radio, Rock, and the Revolution That Shaped a Generation</a>. New York: Random House, 2007. Studwell, William E., and D. F. Lonergan. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/41090615" target="_blank">The Classic Rock and Roll Reader: Rock Music from Its Beginnings to the Mid-1970s</a>. New York: Haworth Press, 1999. Language eng Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/hw7cnP6DoyY" target="_blank">Oral History of Mick Dolan</a> Title Oral History of Mick Dolan Alternative Title Oral History, Dolan Subject Disc jockeys--United States Shock radio Orlando (Fla.) Altamonte Springs (Fla.) Music--Florida Description An oral history interview of Mick Dolan, a radio personality, news and traffic reporter, voiceover actor, promotions director, talk show producer and social media blogger based in Central Florida. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the Salem Media Group radio stations in Altamonte Springs, on July 30, 2015. Topics covered in the interview include how Dolan got into broadcasting, his experiences working on The Baxter and Mark Show, Clear Channel’s impact on broadcasting, the evolution of the Orlando music scene, including some of his favorite musicians and venues, Rock Super Bowls at the Tangerine Bowl, interviewing David Lee Roth and George Thorogood, being onstage for The Who, his attempt to put together a country music fantasy camp with CMT’s Camp Nashville, what he’s been up to lately, and his final thoughts and advice to young musical artists and broadcasters. Abstract Oral history interview of Mick Dolan. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:02:46 The Baxter and Mark Show 0:05:54 Clear Channel's impact on broadcasting 0:08:31 Evolution of the Orlando's music scene 0:11:48 Rock Super Bowls 0:14:17 Backstage stories 0:17:15 Camp Nashville 0:19:04 Closing remarks Creator Cravero, Geoffrey Dolan, Mick Source Dolan, Mick. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Date Created 2015-07-30 Date Copyrighted 2015-07-30 Has Format Digital transcript of original 21-minute, and 11-second oral history: Dolan, Mick. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/142" target="_blank">Rock Collection</a>, Central Florida Music History Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a> <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Amway Arena, Orlando, Florida Camp Nashville, Nashville, Tennessee Fern Park Station, Longwood, Florida Lakeland Civic Center, Lakeland, Florida Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium, Orlando, Florida Salem Media Group, Altamonte Springs, Florida WDIZ-FM, Orlando, Florida WLOQ-FM, Maitland, Florida Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created by Mick Dolan and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference Brewster, Bill, and Frank Broughton. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/43445660" target="_blank">Last Night a Dj Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey</a>. New York: Grove Press, 2000.<a href="%E2%80%9Dhttp%3A//www.rockshowvideos.com/rocksuperbowl12.html%E2%80%9D"> </a> Neer, Richard. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/46713260" target="_blank">FM: The Rise and Fall of Rock Radio</a>. New York: Villard Books, 2001. Willis, Nicole A. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-04-06/news/os-obituary-mark-samansky-20110406_1_baxter-and-mark-show-mark-samansky-rock-station" target="_blank">Mark Samansky: Radio antics hooked his audience</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, April 6, 2011. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-04-06/news/os-obituary-mark-samansky-20110406_1_baxter-and-mark-show-mark-samansky-rock-station. "<a href="%E2%80%9Dhttp%3A//www.rockshowvideos.com/rocksuperbowl12.html%E2%80%9D">Rock Super Bowl XII</a>.” Orlando Rock Super Bowls. Rock Show Videos.com http://www.rockshowvideos.com/rocksuperbowl12.html. Transcript Cravero Today’s Thursday, July 30, 2015. My name’s Geoff Cravero. I’m speaking with Mick Dolan at the Salem Media Group radio stations in Altamonte Springs, Florida. Thanks for speaking with me today, Mick. Dolan No problem. Cravero Uh, let’s just begin I guess with a little of your biography. Could you, uh, tell us a little about where you’re from originally and, uh, early kind of bio details? DolanI was found under a rock… Cravero [laughs]. Dolan About, uh 64 years ago. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan [laughs] Uh, my radio career started in, uh, Topeka, Kansas. I was, uh, at a station there. Then I went to Kansas City[, Missouri], spent a couple years there, and, uh, about five years in Louisville[, Kentucky], but, on July 28, uh, 1980, I came here, uh, and started at [W]DIZ[–FM 100.3]. So uh, 35 years—I’m celebrating my 35th, eh, on the radio here. Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan Uh, DIZ, uh, was a great radio station. It’s gone now. Uh, then I went on—took a break, got out of the, eh—the business completely, and about three or four years later, uh, somebody—I saw a friend at a—in line at the post office and she goes, “You know what? They’re looking for people over at WLOQ[-FM 107.7], the smooth jazz station.” So I said, “Eh.” I went over there—I actually interviewed for the promotions director job, but, uh, I didn’t get it. The program director says, “Hey, man, we need to get you back on the air here.” So they—they—we did a part-time job for a while. It worked into a full-time job. I was a morning host with another guy, Mark Taylor. Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan And, uh, then went to the nights, and then the station got sold. So [laughs] I’ve actually killed two radio stations in my career here, but, uh, after that, uh, took another little break and found a job here doing news and traffic now at, uh, the Salem [Salem Media Group] stations: WORL[-AM 660] and WBZW[–AM 1520]. So afternoon drive, man. I’m the news guy and the traffic guy. So, you know, what goes around comes around. Cravero [laughs] Dolan And, uh… Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan But, you know what? It—it is always beat working. Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan I’ve never, uh—you know, I—I never really wanted a real job. Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan I wanted to do what I liked to do, and isn’t that the whole reason? Uh, I mean, come on. If you can’t like what you’re doing, then what are you—what are you doing? So that’s what I tell people: “Always beats working.” Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan Let’s close that door. Cravero Alright [laughs]. Dolan That’s awful noise in here. Cravero [laughs]. Unidentified [inaudible]. Dolan We make a lot of noise here at Salem. Cravero [laughs] That’s okay. [door closes] Dolan Most of it’s good. Cravero Yeah [laughs]. Dolan Alright. Should I be looking at there? Or… Cravero Oh, no. Just—this works fine. Dolan Okay, alright, okay. Cravero That’s good. Um, yeah, I guess, uh—let’s see. Tell us a little about the, uh—the Baxter and Mark Show.<a title="">[1]</a> I noticed you—you sent us some photos of them, and, uh… Dolan Unbelievable. Cravero I read a little bit about, uh, the shock jock-era kind of thing. Uh… Dolan Yeah, that was before your time. Right? Cravero [laughs]. Dolan You young guys—I just don’t—well, uh, they were one of the best morning shows ever, and the thing that they did was they interacted with people. They—they’re not talking to ya. They’re getting ya—they had callers all the time. They were always pulling stunts and pranks and, uh, just [laughs]—just some amazing stuff on the radio, and, uh, unfortunately, uh, because the business is the business, uh, the management, uh, felt that, uh, after a while that they’d outlived, uh, you know, their—their run, and they replaced them with Ron and Ron—another good show—but, just kind of kicking them to the curb after five, six, seven years, that’s—that’s crazy, but, uh, they were not able to carry on the team. So they split up, and Mark Samansky died back in 2011, uh, and we try to do a, uh, reunion for him. I haven’t been able to do it the last couple of years. Uh, it’s kind of a—it’s a lot of work, but, uh, just in his memory, because he was such as talented guy. I mean, “Dr. Zonas” and, uh, you know, the [laughs]—“Opie Gets Nookie”, all these songs that they did that, uh, just—you—you know, they would take a song—a popular song—and—and, uh—and change it around a little bit and—and make a funny out of it, and, you know, it’s such[?], uh—the wake-up calls were legendary. Uh, they were doing this stuff before anybody else did. So they were—they were true groundbreakers. They really were, and Baxter’s still around. He’s up in, uh, Washington D.C. He’s doing voice work, but, um, you know, he’s the kind of guy who just anything in radio. I mean, he can do the commercials, he’s—he was an operations guy. Uh, he was really the—he sort of kept them on the ground [laughs]. [inaudible]. Samansky was out of his mind, so they worked so well together. It was a great show, but, uh, long live Baxter and Mark. You can still see them, uh—I can’t think of the—it’s—it’s Baxterradio.com. He’s got a bunch of their old bits. Uh, one of my favorites ev—ever was Mr. Bradley. This was an old black guy that thought he was calling the radio station to win Michael Jackson tickets, and they [laughs]—they turned that poor boy every which way. They recorded the bit and then later would split it, you know, chop it up. They could make him say anything. It was the most unbelievable thing, and they got—I don’t know how many bits they did. It wa—you know, every once in a while Mr. Bradley would call, and, uh, so you know—it just—stuff like that that was just epic. Unbelievable [laughs], but, anyway, we’ve got the memories. Uh, and, you know, it’s hard to believe that radio station went away—it’ll be 20 years next year. 1996. Uh, Clear Channel bought them, turned them into soft rock, and then they went to Spanish and then, uh—I don’t know. what is it now? I—I don’t know, but, I—I think it’s still Spanish, and—but, uh, it was pretty amazing. That’s the way radio is. Nothing ever stays the same. Well, that’s an—any media it’s like, uh, it’s always changing, and you’ve got to stay one step ahead, and, uh, quite frankly that—that—that’s[sic] has been a problem. I haven’t been able to do that [laughs], but, you know, it’s hard to be a 64 year old disc jockey in rock radio, and, uh, I can—I can still bring a lot to the table, but, it—it is what it is—what it is. Cravero When you talked about, uh, you know, Clear Channel in ’96, buying out a lot of the… Dolan [inaudible]. Cravero The radio stations, yeah. Dolan 104. Uh, that’s—that was—these were all free standing radio stations, ‘cause back then, you could only own an AM and an FM [clears throat]. That was it. Now, I think it’s like seven total, uh, you can own. So you’ve got three companies that dominate the market here: Cox [Media Group], uh, Clear Channel, and, uh inaudible what is it? CBS [Columbia Broadcasting System], I think. I’m not sure. Maybe they call it something else. I have no idea, but those three guys dominate, uh, still, and, you know, it’s what deregulation did. Can’t win them all. Put a lot of good people out of work, I can tell you that, and, uh, is the quality of radio any better? [buzzer noise] I don’t think so. No, no. I mean what [W]MMO[-FM 98.9] does, what [W]JRR[-FM 101.1] does—they do what they do. That’s good, but it just doesn’t have the soul. It doesn’t have the heart that—that we had back in the day, because those guys are doing a bunch of other jobs. You don’t just do radio. When I was hired back in the day, I—I mean, in my case I was promotions director, too, and—and, uh—so I did that, as well as be on the air, and I was also the production director. I had three jobs there, but really, most people just did one—you were on the air. You did your four hour shift and you were done. It’s like, “Wow.” What a job that is. Not anymore. Now, uh, you gotta pay the piper. So anyway, business has changed. You can’t win them all [laughs]. Cravero What was the, uh—the Orlando music scene like, uh, when you first came and—and kind of had, you know—how did it evolve? Dolan Uh, it—it—it was—it blew up in the ‘80s. I mean, uh, there was a rock club on every corner. Point After [Tom’s Point After], Fern Park Station, Plus 3 Lounge, uh, gosh, the ABC Lounges were doing live music, uh, and I’m, uh—I’m forgetting a bunch of others, but, uh, you know, it was—it was fun. I mean, you could—and it didn’t hurt that I lived like two blocks from Fern Park Station, and my car knew the way home. So I had no problems there, but it was just a fun time. It was kind of an innocent time. It was anything goes. It was back when you could get away with stuff, and—and now you’ve got laws. So uh, it—it was just a really special time and there was—there were booking agents that—oh, my god—Ricky Young and Steve, uh, Brewton— “Brewster” Brewton—uh, these—Steve Peck. These guys—Earl Tennent—these guys made big money booking bands. Now, the clubs don’t want to pay for it. That’s the—that’s the problem. The clubs don’t want to pay for their entertainment. Plus, everybody think he can be a rock star, and so there’s a million bands out there, and there’s some good bands. You’re in a good band.<a title="">[2]</a> So [laughs] where’s the outlet? How do you guys make money? I should be asking you that. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan Uh, so it—it’s—it was real special, and then I think just a combination of the economy just kind of went another direction and, you know, the deregulation of—of radio, and, uh, I—I think that just—it really hurt, and now, there’s still clubs out there—there’s still—you can still hear a good band, but, they’re not making any money. Uh, it’s too bad, but they’re just not. So… Cravero Do you have any, uh—any favorites? Like local bands from the ‘80s, or ‘90s, or… Dolan Oh, then there re was the Bobby Friss Band, and Stranger, and Foreign Legion, and, uh, uh—in fact, Stranger Band, uh, they lost a couple of people. They lost their guitar player.<a title="">[3]</a> He, uh, passed, uh, years ago, and then their drummer, uh, [John] “J.P.” [Price], recently had, uh—he had cancer or something, but—so they’re all getting old and dying, but Greg Billings was in that band. He still has his band, the Greg Billings Band. So—but, those were special bands. Uh, oh, I don’t know. I—I—I can’t—there’s a million of them. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan I can’t remember any of them right now, but, uh, those bands were able to make a living and have a lot of fun. You know, back in—opening up for Van Halen and, you know, things like that. So they were big, uh, but, it’s all gone now. There was a band called Sons of Doctors [laughs]. That was great too. They were a little bit later—late ‘80s—but, uh, Angelo Jannotti, those guys—they’re still around, you know? So, uh, it—it—it was a special time. It really was. Cravero What about, um—I read a little about the Rock Super Bowls they did… Dolan Oh. Cravero At the Citrus Bowl. Dolan Epic, epic. Unbelievable. I came from Louisville in 1980, and it was funny, because they—those big stadium shows were just starting back, you know, late ‘70s, early ‘80s, and I had seen, uh, ZZ Top and, uh, Lynyrd Skynyrd, uh, in—in Louisville, and that same show that had Bob Seger, and they came that [clears throat]—that summer. So I—I caught them there too, but those Super Bowl[s], they—they had big name acts, every one of them, and I think that fell victim to the times, as well. The people—the bands, who are big and popular, they want too much money, and—and a show like that, you just couldn’t put it together, uh, like they—they could then. Uh, then, of course, there was The [Rolling] Stones and The Who, and, uh, Stones came back—I did not see that show. I wanted to, but I missed it, and, uh—well, because I had to pay now. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan [laughs] I didn’t have to pay back then, and I ain’t going to pay hundreds of dollars. I’m sorry. I love the band, but uh-uh. I’ve got better things to do with that money. I shouldn’t say that. I probably shot myself in the foot, but that’s alright. It’s only rock and roll. So uh—but those—that was a community thing, man, and the memories, and—and again, what you can get away with. It’s like—it’s crazy. It was all good, and you—you talk to anybody who’s been around a while and you mention Rock Super Bowls, and they’re going to go, “Oh, oh, I remember that one, yeah.” Ted Nugent, uh—it was pretty cool. Very nice, but I don’t think they could pull that off now. You just can’t do that. It would have to be part of a tour, and—and I know there’s tours like that, but—but not in that environment. I mean, it’s just something else, and the—and the Citrus Bowl wasn’t even that big back then. They still put 50,000 in there. So, you know, promoters made a lot of money. Everybody was happy, and the tickets—I don’t know—I—those Super Bowl tickets probably weren’t more than 20 dollars. Oh, my god. How—can you imagine that? You know, those were the days. It is. Cravero Yeah, did you, uh, have any interesting, uh, stories about being backstage at any of them? Dolan [laughs]. Cravero [laughs] That you can share. Dolan That I can talk about today? Cravero [laughs]. Dolan One of my favorites was, uh, uh, David Lee Roth of Van Halen and—because I got to do an interview with him, and, you know, it—those days it wasn’t, you know, wireless—there wasn’t any of that, but—so I recorded it on a cassette player, and we took a bus over there to see him. It was in Lakeland[, Florida], and, uh—that’s where—that’s where the concerts were—was Lakeland Civic Center. There was no Orlando Arena. There was no Amway Center. There was nothing. So you had to go to Lakeland to see a show, and the same for Tampa. So the—the two converged—the markets converged there, and—and it was kind of cool because backstage you’d see the Tampa radio guys and, you know, it was a kind of a family, but, uh, David Lee Roth was out of his mind. Took over the interview. I mean—I—he was interviewing me. So I had that and I—I played it for the people on the bus back home, uh—on the way back, and it was just epic. Uh, I had a—I’ll tell you the worst interview I ever had was George Thorogood. Guy was a total asshole. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan I’m sorry. He was. Great music. Love the guy. [cell phone beeps] Dolan Couldn’t believe that—that—but, he was obnoxious, he was making fun of radio, he was, you know, uh, dissing on everybody… [cell phone beeps] Dolan And it was like, “What?” You know, “Hey, man, I’m sorry. I’m trying to help you. I’m doing this for you as much as for me.” So just left a really bad taste in my mouth, but, uh, um—and then, you know, I got to be onstage for The Who. I got to bring on The B-52’s. They opened for The Who, and [laughs] that was the punk rock scene there, and that was—they were considered, you know, new wave. Uh, that was, uh [makes sound]—the rock guys did not like—they were booed[sic] ‘em. They were throwing stuff onstage. I’m bringing them on and I dodge a can—a Converse [Chuck Taylor] All Star [shoe] that—a red one. I’ll never forget it. So I dodged that one, brought on the band. They lasted maybe three songs, and while I was onstage, the other Converse All Star—the other red one—came flying up on the stage. So they only lasted three songs and walked off and I can’t blame them, but, uh [laughs] there’s just—just epic stuff like that, but, uh, there’s no—I mean, you can’t even describe what it’s like to be out on that stage in front of 50,000 people, and when you speak, there’s a delay. There’s like a half to a full second delay. So you’re hearing, you know—that’s very—that’s hard to get used to, but, you know, the—the—the—the experience was just unbelievable. Great stuff. Cravero That’s cool. Dolan Yeah. Cravero [laughs]. Cravero I read also you did, uh,—you, uh—CMT’s [Country Music Television], uh—they did like a fantasy camp? Dolan Yeah, Camp Nashville [laughs]. Cravero What was that? Dolan My—my friend and I, Lee Bailey, who was a promoter himself—in fact, he was of the only guys to lose money on Larry the Cable Guy,<a title="">[4]</a> if you can believe that, uh, and—so he had some bad luck, but, uh, we—we were trying to do, uh—it was patterned after Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp, uh, which is hugely successful. I—and what the concept is: you gather musicians, you pay to be a camper, and, you know, they jam with you, they teach you some stuff, they have sessions. You know, it’s all—it’s very cool. Very cool concept. Well, we thought we could do it and we went to Nashville and, uh, found out that it was a little harder than we thought, and so it never even got off the ground. Uh, we—we had—we opened it, uh, we were taking camper, you know, registrations, but, uh, just didn’t have the money or the contacts to—to make it happen, and I still think it’s a good idea, but we just couldn’t pull it off. So, uh—I like all kinds of music. I mean, I’ve worked rock and smooth jazz, always, you know, news and traffic, but, I like country. Uh, I’m not real fond of rap, but, uh—I mean, every music has something in it, and every music—Americana? uh, I mean, come on. Bon Iver? I like that guy.<a title="">[5]</a> I think that guy is talented, uh, but—but, you know, I don’t know all of the new music. I—I don’t know how anybody keeps up with it. There’s just so much out there, and so much that’s never heard by, you know, anybody but the real fans. Uh, so I depend on my two, uh, sons to keep me up on that. Dolan But, uh, it’s—it’s just a great—a great career, if you can find your niche. That’s the whole key, and you’ve got to remember that it changes every day [laughs] practically, and so uh, be ready to move, you know? Cravero Well, I know you’ve got a show to get to. Dolan Yeah, man. Cravero So, uh… Dolan The news and traffic never stops. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan And there’s plenty to do, but, uh, let’s make sure—yeah, I’m good. Cravero Alright. Dolan Okay, but, uh, you know—just in closing, it—it—it’s so good to be remembered, I think, in a positive way, and I just try to be myself and—and try to connect, try to—I mean, I love people, and—and that’s what you have to have. You have to have that empathy for your audience, and, uh—onstage, as well. Uh, I love to do onstage, love to bring bands on. I—I just brought, uh—uh—uh, Blandini—Jeff Blando was an old rocker. It’s—he’s still around, and, uh, you know, played with, uh, uh, uh, Slaughter and, uh, I can’t think of it. Anyway—but—but he—he’s got his own band, Blandini. I just brought him on. It’s a new place called Paradise Cove in Seminole County, right by the river. Man, it’s got a pool, boat slips—you can pull your boat right up, uh, and so my friend, uh, Randy—he’s—he’s got that, uh, place, and so you know, I still do that all the time. I’ll bring—I love these—especially these bands that have been around for a while and are still doing it, and it’s like, hey. You know, one relic introduces the others. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan Right? So it—it’s just—it’s—it beats working always, and I appreciate you coming by and talking to me [laughs]. Cravero I appreciate you talking to us, Mick. Thanks a lot. Dolan And get the word out. We’re still here. Cravero [laughs]. Dolan [laughs]. Cravero Will do. Dolan Okay. Cravero Alright, man. Thanks. Dolan Thank you. Alright. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Starring Alan Baxter and Mark Samansky. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Prison Wine. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Ronald “Ronnie” Wayne Garvin. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Daniel Lawrence Whitney. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Justin Vernon. </div> </div> "Brewster" Brewton ABC Lounge Alan Baxter Altamonte Springs AM radio Amway Arena Angelo Jannotti Blandini blogger Bob Seger Bobby Friss Band Bon Iver booking agent Camp Nashville CBS Cinco de Marko Citrus Bowl Clear Channel Clear Channel Radio CMT Columbia Broadcasting System concert Converse All Star Converse Chuck Taylor All Star country music Country Music Television Cox Media Group Daniel Lawrence Whitney David Lee Roth deregulation disc jockey DJ Dr. Zonas Earl Tennent fantasy camp Fern Park Fern Park Station Florida Citrus Bowl FM radio Foreign Legion George Thorogood Greg Billings Greg Billings Band J.P. Price jazz Jeff Blando John "J.P." Price Justin Vernon Kansas City, Missouri Lakeland Lakeland Civic Center Larry the Cable Guy Lee Bailey Louisville, Kentucky Lynyrd Skynyrd Mark Samansky Mark Taylor Michael Jackson Mick Dolan Mr. Bradley music music fantasy camp music venue Nashville, Tennessee new wave new wave music news reporter Opie Gets Nookie orlando Orlando Arena Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium Paradise Cove Plus 3 Lounge Point After production director promotions director punk rock radio radio personality radio station reporter Rick Young rock Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp rock club rock music rock radio Rock Super Bowl Rock Super Bowl 12 Rock Super Bowl XII Rolling Stones American Tour 1981 Ron and Ron Ronald ''Ronnie'' Wayne Garvin Ronnie Garvin Salem Media Group Sanford Seminole County shock jock shock radio smooth jazz smooth jazz radio social media song parody Sons of Doctors Steve "Brewster" Brewton Steve Brewton Steve Peck Stranger talk show talk show producer Tangerine Bowl Ted Nugent The B-52's The Baxter and Mark Show The Rolling Stones The Who Tom's Point After Topeka, Kansas traffic reporter Van Halen voiceover actor Washington, D.C. WBZW-AM WDIZ-FM WJRR-FM WLOQ-FM WMMO-FM WORL-AM ZZ Top https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/d5356a286b5e4118eb2a02e7232c96f4.mp3 024d2f4ba6b12439cb00a15b257c1f02 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Mrs. Hill Devoe Alternative Title Oral History, Hill Devoe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Mrs. Hill Devoe Alternative Title Oral History, Hill Devoe https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/709d8b0c6afe0ef256f6894174459a84.pdf 3c54a399ae62591b666323513de4346c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection Alternative Title Celery Soup Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Community theater--United States Theater--United States Description The Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play Remade - Not Bought, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida. Contributor Dingle, Cathy Lee Delgado, Natalie Fedorka, Drew M. Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot A. Kelley, Katie Lee, Luticia Gormley Maliczowski, Linda Lee Maples, Marilyn Miller, Mark Reisz, Autumn Thompson, Trish Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Fedorka, Drew Interviewee Ford, Nancy Harris Location <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 22 minutes and 38 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 195kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Nancy Harris Ford Alternative Title Oral History, Ford Subject Sanford (Fla.) New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Oral history--United States Community theater--United States Theater--United States Actresses--United States African Americans--Florida--Sanford Georgetown (Sanford, Fla.) Segregation--Florida Rochester (N.Y.) Description An oral history told by Nancy Harris Ford, an actress in the Creative Sanford, Inc. and Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play production of Remade - Not Bought. Ford was raised in Sanford, Florida, and lived there until she graduated from Seminole High School in 1973. She returned to Sanford around 2009 and became involved with Celery Soup, a community theater project operated by Creative Sanford. This interview was conducted by Drew Fedorka on November 16, 2013, and focuses on the historical figure and character of Dr. George H. Starke, an African-American physician in Georgetown in Sanford. Other topics include Ford's biographical information, her decision to return back to Sanford after 36 years elsewhere, how she became involved with Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, her involvement in Touch and Go and Remade - Not Bought, and segregation. Table Of Contents 00:00 Introduction 00:12 Ford's biographical information 00:56 Interest in Sanford's history 01:30 Interest in Creative Sanford, Inc. 02:08 Characters Ford plays in Remade - Not Bought 03:13 Role of community theater in remembering history 06:55 Choice of scenes in Remade - Not Bought 10:12 History with creative license 11:24 Dr. George H. Starke 13:33 Childhood memories of Dr. Starke 14:15 Linking memory of Sanford to specific people 15:47 Dr. Starke's office and his role in the community 17:34 Messages behind Celery Soup plays 20:39 Role of Celery Soup in the healing process 21:18 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Nancy Ford Harris. Interview conducted by Drew Fedorka at the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> in Sanford, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Ford, Nancy Harris. Interviewed by Drew Fedorka. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. November 16, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 22-minute and 38-second oral history: Ford, Nancy Harris. Interviewed by Drew Fedorka. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. November 16, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Coverage Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida Crooms High School, Sanford, Florida Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida New Smyrna Beach, Florida Dr. George H. Starke's Office, Sanford, Florida Dr. Edward D. Strickland's Office, Sanford, Florida Rochester, New York Creator Fedorka, Drew Ford, Nancy Harris Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Delgado, Natalie Date Created 2013-11-16 Date Modified 2014-02-04 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 123 MB 163 KB Medium 22-minute and 38-second audio/video recording 11-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Theater Teacher Provenance Originally created by Drew Fedorka and Nancy Harris Ford and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013 Curator Cepero, Laura External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>'." The Orlando Sentinel, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank">African Americans of Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/3MRse7u0x7M" target="_blank">Oral History of Nancy Harris Ford</a> Date Copyrighted 2013-11-16 Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Transcript Fedorka This is Drew Fedorka. Uh, we are at the [UCF] Public History Center in Sanford, Florida. It is Saturday, November 16th, 2013. Do you just want to introduce yourself for the camera? Ford I’m Nancy Ford, and, um—actually, I’m Nancy Harris Ford. My maiden name is Harris. I grew up here in Sanford and left. Was gone about 36 years and came back. Fedorka Okay, and when did you leave Sanford? Ford I left Sanford in 1973, about a year after I graduated from Seminole High School. Fedorka Okay, and what brought you back to Sanford? Ford Uh, a combination of things. One is home. And, in 2008, when the economy did what it did, I found myself unemployed, and I needed to make some choices. So I chose to come home, where I had a support system. Fedorka Okay, um, now did you have any interest in Sanford’s history before getting involved with Celery Soup and Creative Sanford[, Inc.]? Ford Not really, because I am Sanford’s history. [laughs] You know, a lot of the things they do in Creative Sanford[, Inc.] in the shows that they write, I remember. So I’m not just learning them. I am learning new facts about these things, But a lot of these stories, they’re my stories—some of them. And I remember these things. Fedorka Right so… Ford It’s interesting that what you call “history,” I call “my life.” Fedorka Right. Of course. Yeah. Okay. So what got you interested in Creative Sanford? Ford Well, when I came back, my sister—my sisters knew that I was interested in acting and performing, because I had done it when I was in Memphis[, Tennessee]. And she saw an advertisement for the show—for Touch and Go—and asked me if I would like to go. And so we went to see it, and I thought it was so interesting, so I said, “Well I think I’ll audition the next time around.” So the next time around, I auditioned and I really enjoyed it, so I’ve auditioned every time since. Fedorka Okay, great. Um, so you play a number of different characters in Remade - Not Bought. Do you want to go through some of the different characters? Ford [laughs] It was interesting. I played, um, Tasha in the continuity scene—is who’s the mother of one of the young ladies. And that role—the continuity scenes were designed to link the stories together so that they made sense. And, um, I also played Tasha’s mother in one of the scenes, remembering when the, uh, I guess the Woolworth’s counter, one of those restaurants which I actually remember when we used to go to the back window to get the food at the restaurants. We couldn’t go in and sit down. I remember that. So I played that character. And then I played Dr. Starke’s in another scene. And, uh, the Tasha character just kind of weaves through most of the show. Fedorka So it’s interesting that you said a lot of these things have been touched on your own personal life that you experienced. What role do you think community theater plays and community understanding on history in remembering history? Ford Well, I think that it’s really important, because, if we don’t remember our past, especially the things that aren’t very pleasant, then we’re doomed to repeat it. Now, I have a son who’s 20, and we would get tired of me telling him sometimes that, when he wanted these shoes and these clothes that cost so much money, and I would tell him, “Well, you know, when I was growing up, my mama bought our clothes and hoped they’re fit. And most of the time, bought them too large, because we couldn’t try them on and she couldn’t take them back. Because we were colored.” So, you know, especially for European Americans, we know a lot of your history, because we were exposed to it on commercials and television and stuff like that. But our history was kind of downplayed. And even among ourselves, we don’t realize sometimes the richness. When I say “ourselves” —the African-American community. Sometimes we don’t understand or really, fully realize the richness of our history. And the importance that certain things play. It was just kinda the way we lived. Fedorka Right, and—so some of these scenes are dealing with some of the, um, more troubling or challenging aspects of Sanford’s history. Um, in what ways, um—let me think how to phrase it. And, does it—does it change the memory of these experiences at all in some of these scenes? Ford It—it doesn’t change the memory. It changes the meaning. Uh, for example, the butterfly scene. I remember school integration. So when I’m going through that, I remember. And people say that I play that scene and I seem so—it seems so real, because I really was angry about school integration. [clears throat] Although, for me, it was the opposite. It was me going to the “white” school, so to speak, not the other way around, as it was in the butterfly scene. But I didn’t want to be there. I had no choice. I got thrown into an environment that I feel changed my life in a way that was not for the best. When I was at Crooms [High School], I was a—an honors student. I was in the National Honors Society. I was on track to be Val of Sal. And when I went to Seminole [High School], I did not get the same attention that I got at Crooms. Because the curriculum was so different, and the books were so different, because we got hand me down books at Crooms. Things were so different that I was not academically prepared. And even though I did well, I was in and out of the Honors Society at Seminole. And I didn’t go to college. And I found out later about the, uh, work-studies. And I wasn’t counseled, so I didn’t know. I didn’t know what was available to me, and I didn’t graduate college until I was 50. And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that I got shoved into an environment where I wasn’t welcomed. I didn’t’ feel welcomed. Fedorka It seemed that watching Remade - Not Bought, there’s a very specific choice of scenes. The types of topics that we’re touched on. I think of this really cool scene, I think of the butterfly scene, which is obviously one of the main highlights of the show. Um, the one of the restaurant that you just explained. What was the decision-making process, which scenes to highlight? Ford Well, I wasn’t really involved in that, so—I wasn’t involved in choosing which scenes went into the play. You have to talk to the playwrights about that. Fedorka Right. Okay. Uh, do you feel like there’s any—obviously, I mean, there’s—some of these scenes are kind of arbitrary in the way that—in the topics that they—in the—obviously the big comment that they’re trying to reconcile is Sanford’s history of racial tensions. And they’ve picked little snapshots to touch on. Do you think there’s any that would have been more effective to include? Ford Well, I don’t know about effective, because I think they scenes they included were very effective. Um, there’s so many from which to choose. And I think that the ones that they chose show different aspects of the racial tension, like the pool scene. I don’t know how to swim. I never learned. Uh, there were two pools in Sanford. The white pool, we weren’t allowed to go to. The black pool was always so crowded when it was open that you couldn’t swim in there if you tried. And the beach? Well, there were no lifeguards at the beach we were allowed to go. We’d go to New Smyrna Beach. And our parents were afraid to put us in the water because they both, you know, fearful for our safety. And every summer, kids drowned. Every summer. So our parents were very fearful of that. So those kinds of things, you know, were really meaningful. There’s, um, the only thing—and I have spoken to them about this—it seems that in every one of these plays, I play the angry black woman [laughs]. Um, but we had some good times in the African-American community as well. And sometimes I’d like to see that highlighted. You know, like we had pic—church picnics, and things like that. And because they highlight some things that have nothing to do with racial tension with the white characters. But almost all the scenes that involve African Americans have some type of racial overtone. Even the Starke scene. Even though it wasn’t, you know, an uncomfortable thing, but even that had racial overtones and, you know, it’s—there were other things that we did [laughs], you know, that had nothing to do with race—that had nothing to do with white people either. But, you know, a lot of the scenes they have with whites have nothing to do with black people. Fedorka Right. What—do you see what Creative Sanford does—what Celery Soup does especially—with plays like Remade - Not Bought—do you see what they’re doing as history or is it something different? Ford It’s both. It’s history with creative license, because it’s entertainment. And I think it’s a good way to get a conversation going. Because when people go and they see these shows, then invariably, even participating, I learned things, and I go out and do research. Like, Dr. Starke was my doctor. Dr. Starke brought me into the world, you know, when I was born. He was the doctor who brought me here. He was my doctor growing up. But there were things that I didn’t know about him, because, you know, why would I want to go study about Dr. Starke? But now in retrospect, I went out on the Internet and did research, because I do want to know. You know, so there are—and almost everybody that I speak with, after they’ve seen the show, they say “I didn’t know this” or “I didn’t know that.” So yeah, it’s a good way to get a conversation started. Fedorka And it’s interesting that you mention Dr. Starke, because he is featured predominantly throughout the play. Um, in what ways do you think he was a good choice to highlight as a central example of some of the message we get across? Ford Well, one thing is that he was biracial, you know? And uh, and that’s one way—one of the reasons that he was able to do some of the things that he did, because he was fair. His skin was fair, his hair was wavy. But he was a very quiet man—a soft-spoken man. But, like they say in the play, he was a good man. And I remember going to him, up to my teenage years, you know—until I left here, he was my doctor—[laughs] I don’t ever remember paying him. I imagine my mother paid him. I don’t know whether she paid him or not. But it never occurred to me that he wasn’t getting paid. That’s not something that kids think about. You know, and I know that I went to him once for something and he said, “Well tell Bernice such and such and such.” that was my mom’s name. So he knew his patients. It’s not like now. You go to the doctor and they review your chart to remember who you are. You know, they make notes in their charts so that they can have conversation with you. But if I walked into his office, he knew me. He knew my name. He knew my mother’s name. He knew my grandparents. It was very different. And I didn’t realize—well, I didn’t think about the fact that he saw white people too. You know, I don’t ever remember seeing white people in his office. I imagine they were there, but you know, that wasn’t something that I thought about, because if he saw white people it was, because they couldn’t afford to pay the white doctor. And that was not uncommon in the black community, because we didn’t carry around a lot of the baggage it seems that a lot of the white people did. Fedorka What are some of the memories you have of Dr. Starke of your childhood? Ford Well, I remember one time that, uh—I didn’t like shots. I was actually very afraid of shots and I needed to get a shot. And there was a booster shot in the buttocks, and Dr. Starke had me stand at the window and look out the window, and he was talking to me. I don’t remember what he was talking to me about. I also don’t remember getting the shot. Just—it was just so much like the scene in the play. And when I saw that, I was like, “You know, he really was like that.” That was not an exaggeration. Fedorka What role do you think the play has in linking the memory of Sanford and Sanford in the 20th century to people like Dr. Starke? Ford Well, I think especially for a lot of the kids, it helps—helps you to know your history. History is important. Even though I didn’t realize it when I was young, because I did not like history in school. Didn’t like it at all. And now, I’m more interested in it, because I can see how—what they call progress. You know, the continuity of events and how it progressed from here to here and the next step. You know, um, Sanford was known as “The Celery City.” Well, I could remember what that smells like. Interestingly enough, because my gather ran a celery crew. So I used to play on the bus—on his bus. and it is a very distinct smell. And I remember what it smells like. And I also remember what it smelled like when those celery fills were rotting, cause, you know, Celery Avenue is named Celery Avenue for a reason. There weren’t houses down there when I was growing up. Those were celery fields. And so people don’t know why that street is named Celery Avenue. And there’s Celery Key and there’s Celery something else, but those are housing developments now. But they used to be celery fields. Fedorka And to bring you back to Dr. Starke. Dr. Starke’s office was near Celery Avenue. Ford Well, it’s on the corner of 11th Street and Sanford Avenue. So Celery Avenue is what 13th Street kinda turns into after it makes that little cattycorner. So yeah, it’s pretty close. And we used to walk. You used to walk everywhere. Nowadays, we hardly think about walking these days. Fedorka Would you say Dr. Starke was well-known in the community? Ford [laughs] I’d say that’s an understatement. Fedorka Okay. And… Ford He was the black doctor. So all the black folks went to him. You know, because we didn’t—the white doctors wouldn’t see us. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good doctor. He was probably one the best doctors in town, but we didn’t realize that, because he was our doctor. He was the only doctor we knew. Fedorka And was he known—well-known at the time, at least in Sanford, for his role in sort of crossing—crossing that color barrier by obviously, uh, white patients coming to see him? Was that well-known in the community? Ford Well [coughs], they may—[coughs] excuse me. It may have been by adults, but I was a child, so that wasn’t something that I thought about, you know. Fedorka Right. Ford So, you know, he—I know that he was a prominent figure. Everybody knew him. And Dr. Ringland<a title="">[1]</a> too. He wasn’t in the play, but Dr. Ringland was the dentist—the dentist—the black dentist. And they shared an office. They shared an office space. Because when you went to the doctor and you went to the dentist, you went to the same building. Fedorka Okay to—just a couple of last questions to bring it back to Remade - Not Bought. You said that one of the main role of, um, productions like that is just to get a conversation started. What types of messages do you hope that got across from a production like Remade - Not Bought? Ford Well, I would—I would hope that some healing happens. Because there’s a lot of bitterness still, um, in the community among both black and whites. There’s anger. There, uh—we’ve come a long way, but we still have a ways to go. A lot of blacks are bitter and angry, because we feel—when I say “we,” I mean some blacks and whites. I don’t mean all of any group. But many of us, uh, as a people feel that we’ve struggled. And I know personally in my own life—because my name is Nancy, I got into doors that I wouldn’t have gotten into if my name had been something else. But when I walked through the door, say for an interview, I could see the countenance of the interviewer’s face change, because I was not what they expected. My—my maiden name is Harris. My name is Nancy Harris. I’m well-spoken. I’m articulate. When you speak with me on the phone, you don’t necessarily know that I’m an African American, but when I walk through the door, it’s obvious. And that hurts. And every time that happens, it hurts. So there’s[sic] scars there. There’s[sic] deep scars and they need heeling. [coughs] By the same token [coughs]—excuse me—I went through affirmative action, where a lot of white people felt left out. And I had—I had work as a result of affirmative action—a pretty good job. I was a machinist. And, in that shop—and I was in Rochester, New York, where they thought things were better—and the white guys, they would yell things at me across the shop. And tell me that I was taking the food out of some guy’s family’s mouth, because I shouldn’t be there, because I’m black and female. So we have these kinds of conversations. It gives the opportunity to know that we’re all human. All the parts, the same ways. The human way. And that we all have feelings, and they should be honored. And that we all have rich culture and tradition. And I think it’s important for us to learn about each other’s culture more and more, so that we can appreciate our differences and move forward. Because, in order to hold a person down, you have to stay down there with them. And it’s important for us all to rise. Fedorka Um, do you think Celery Soup and Remade - Not Bought, um— it[sic] puts a very positive spin on a lot of these memories and do—do you think there’s any—do you think it’s does it effectively with this healing process? Ford Um, yes. I think it does. I think anytime we address these things head-on, that it’s effective. It may not always feel good, but it’s like a shot. Doesn’t feel good when you get it, but what it does is work. The benefit feels good. Fedorka Okay. Uh, thank you very much for your help. If you—do you have anything you want to say about Celery Soup or the just importance of it, he importance of community theater, the importance of approaching community’s history in this manner? Ford Well, I’d just like to say that I’m very happy that this project exists—that Creative Sanford exists. And that Creative Sanford sees the benefit of doing this work. And I hope that people will support it. You know, theatre is not well-supported in general, and in particular, community theatre. We have a lot of good, um—good actors and actresses in community theatre. One of the things that I love about Celery Soup is that everyone who auditions gets cast. And even though I had experience coming into it, it’s a wonderful opportunity for people who have never been on a stage before to get out there and see if they like it and have an opportunity to—to go someplace, because this is the way that—there are a lot of people that we see on television and on the big screen, who got their start in community theater. It’s important and I do think it should be valued, and people should support it. Fedorka Well, thank you very much… Ford Thank you. Fedorka For all your thoughts. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Dr. Edward D. Strickland. </div> </div> 11th Street 13th Street actress affirmative action African American celery Celery Avenue Celery City celery industry Celery Island Celery Key Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play community theater Creative Sanford, Inc. Crooms Academy Crooms High School Delgado, Natalie doctor Eleventh Street Fedorka, Drew Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot Georgetown Harris, Nancy New Smyrna Beach physician race relations Remade - Not Bought Rochester, New York Sanford Sanford Avenue segregation Seminole High School SHS Starke, George H. Strickland, Edward D. Tasha theater Thirteenth Street Touch and Go https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/db109e8ff003ee2355b67f4d868179cf.pdf 37c2dfdfddbae25e6058a32dc212224d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Nicholas Agon Kresky Alternative Title Oral History, Nicholas Agon Kresky Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Memorials--Florida Gay culture--United States Description An oral history interview of Nicholas Agon Kresky, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus who serves on the chorus’s Music and Artistic Development Committee. The interview was conducted by Sarah Schneider at the University of Central Florida Center for Emerging Media in Orlando, Florida, on November 17th, 2016. Some of the topics covered include joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, his favorite productions, the 2012 Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses (GALA) festival, the mass shooting at Pulse nightclub, the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to the Pulse tragedy, the community response to the Pulse tragedy, pet therapy, the national response to the Pulse tragedy, the 2016 Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses (GALA) festival, support from other gay choruses, the significance of Pulse before and after the tragedy, the role of social media in the aftermath of the tragedy, and the long-term consequences of the Pulse tragedy. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions 0:02:15 2012 Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses festival 0:03:22 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub and its aftermath 0:06:03 Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy 0:09:04 Community response to Pulse tragedy 0:10:18 Pet therapy 0:11:55 National response to Pulse tragedy 0:14:05 2016 Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses festival 0:18:38 Support from other gay choruses 0:19:49 Significance of Pulse before and after tragedy 0:22:43 Role of social media in aftermath of tragedy 0:23:54 Long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy 0:25:45 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Nicholas Agon Kresky. Interview conducted by Sarah Schneider in Orlando, Florida, on November 17, 2016. Type Moving Image Source Kresky, Nicholas Agon. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider, November 17, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 27-minute, and 00-second oral history: Kresky, Nicholas Agon. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts, Orlando, Florida GALA Choruses Festival, Denver Performing Arts Center, Denver, Colorado Orlando, Florida Pulse nightclub, Orlando, Florida Creator Kresky, Nicholas Agon Schneider, Sarah Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2016-11-17 Date Copyrighted 2016-11-17 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 799 MB Medium 27-minute and 00-second audio recording 14-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Nicholas Agon Kresky and Sarah Schneider and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/B-KE6q281eY" target="_blank">Oral History of Nicholas Agon Kresky</a> Transcript Schneider Today is Thursday, November 17th, 2016. My name is Sarah Schneider and I’m conducting an oral history interview with Nick [Nicholas] Agon Kresky of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted at the UCF[1] Center for Emerging Media in Orlando, Florida. So thank you for being here today. Kresky Thank you. Schneider And can you start off by stating your name for us? Kresky Sure. My name is Nick Agon Kresky. Schenider Thank you. And could you start off by telling us where you were born and how long you’ve lived in Orlando? Kresky Sure. Um, I was born in Duluth, Minnesota. I grew up in the upper peninsula of Michigan and I moved to Orlando in 2010. Schneider Great. And what brought you to the Orlando Gay Chorus? Kresky Um, looking for kind of an outlet. Something different. Um, when I was—when I was younger, growing up in—in Michigan, I was brought to Milwaukee Pride as kind of a celebration of my high school graduation. And I got to see the—I think they were the Brew City Chorus. Um, it was LGBT[2] chorus over in Milwaukee. And when I moved to Orlando, I was like, “Orlando’s big enough. They should have something.” So I went and I Googled it. And sure enough, there they were. Hm. Schneider Um, and so can you tell us about some of your favorite productions or performances… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …you’ve done through the chorus. Kresky Um, my first performance was “Rainbows over Broadway”. It was a 2011 spring concert. And I really enjoyed that one because it was just a—a lot of campy fun. Just kind of ceb—celebrating the community. Um, and then I—I’m not a fan of the music from our “Pillow Talk” performance. I like the cohesion and the—we—it had a great storyline. Lots of, um—lots of [inaudible], so—and I—I like a show with good production. Schneider Mmhmm. Um, and did—I’m not sure if I already—if you already said… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …how long have you been a part of the [Orlando] Gay Chorus? Kresky I’ve been with the chorus for about five and a half years. Schneider Okay. And, um, have you participated in any of the GALA[3] events? Kresky Uh, yeah. I’ve been in two different GALA events. Schneider Okay. And, um, where were those located? Kresky They were both in Denver[, Colorado]. So I think 2012 and 2016 as well. Schenider Okay. And can you tell me more about the 2012 GALA event and what your experience was like there? Kresky Sure. Um, in 2012, uh, I had needed a little bit of escape, too. And I’d—I finished relationship[sic] months and months prior. And I’d just kind of started a romantic interest with another chorus member. Um, and then we, uh—yeah. 2012 I guess was just more about learning about the—the gay choral movement. I never knew there was an actual movement. And, um, kind of learning about the sense of community that comes from gay choruses. Mm. Schneider Um, and so, getting to Pulse. Could… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …you tell me a little bit about how you first heard about the Pulse shooting? Kresky Sure. Um, my husband, Manny, and I were working on renovations at the house. So we’re stuck sleeping downstairs on these little [inaudible] beds. And we started getting f—like random phone calls and text messages. And it’s really early in the morning and we were trying to sleep. I had to work in the morning. I’m like, “I’m old and I’m tired [laughs].” So I’m checking the messages and everybody’s checking to see if we’re okay. And I mean instantly, your mind is, “What’s—what’s going on?” It’s—that’s when we were going into Facebook and the media. Um, checking CNN.com. You realize that there’s an incident at Pulse happening. And then we’re having to reassure everybody at three o’clock in the morning that we’re okay. Please let us sleep. We did not really know the gravity of the situation ‘til much later. Schneider And, um, what did you do the rest of that Sunday? Kresky Um, that Sunday I actually had to turn—go into work. Um, and so I got in there, um—it was a[sic] early morning shift. So, of course, you had all those phone calls. And then you’re like, “I have to report to work.” And I work at a—a local theme park with lots of young people. People that have been out in the clubs all night. So, you know, would they—that’s when they started doing body counts. And we’re sitting in the break room, getting ready to start our day. And we didn’t know who was going to show up and who wasn’t. Schneider Um, and what were your thoughts as sort of the rest of the day unfolded and as—in those few days following Pulse? Kresky It was completely surreal because when you’re out working with guests, you had to ignore that it even happened. It’s—that’s—you know, escapism is all—is all about the theme park industry. And as a—as a[sic] employee, you have to go out there and escape with them. Nothing bad ever happens at a theme park. And so you had to take that part of your brain and—and switch it off. And you’re really walking a fine line of fantasy and reality. Mm. Schneider Um, and so, um, what was the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response like in those first few days and—and in weeks following? Kresky It was—it was insane. You just did—out of—out of nowhere, we started just getting emails and messages as—as members, um, from—from our leadership. And we’ve got—we’ve been asked to go in the first—the first night we were asked to do a vigil over at the church [Joy Metropolitan Community Church]. We were asked—um, over at [Joy] MCC. And we were asked not to advertise anything about it on social media because we didn’t really know really how dangerous the environment was going to be. And so this was—it was all kind of under wraps. And at that time, it was such a shock for—for myself that I had—had declined the invitation. But then, the following day, when they had decided to go and do the—the performance at, uh, Dr. Phillips Center [for the Performing Arts]. Then I decided, yes. It’s about time just to kind of gauge, you know, what—what community am I walking out into [clears throat]? Um, the chorus’s response was just incredible though. It was very, uh—it was probably the most recognized I’ve ever seen us. You know? We—we’re—we’re all about singing. We’re all about going out and having fun with a message. And now, we’re expected to take all of these cats and herd them. And tell ‘em where to be and how to be. And we—we had just invested in this, um—oh, goodness—Chorus Connection, which is a—a really great app, um, and, uh, kind of organizational software for choruses. And so we were able to just, within an hour or two, respond to a vigil request. And, you know, you all of a sudden have representation. We’d never been that organized [laughs] before that [inaudible]. Schneider Mm. Kresky So… Schneider Mm. And, um, so what was your experience, as a member of the [Orlando] Gay Chorus… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …um, participating in vigils and memorial services and other events? Kresky Um, it was—it was a mixture of trying to find some sort of self-sooving[sic]—self-soothing and trying to project a—a message of caring and wanting to support the greater community. You know? You’re, eh—you’re, uh—in the end, you’re trying to figure out who’s actually supporting you. Um, and just kind of coming to a realization that, you know, we were all in it together. We were all supporting each other. Whether it be, you know, a person standing three hundred, four hundred people back. Or, you know, a person standing next to you onstage. Schneider Um, and what did you think when you, um, participated and—and experienced the reaction of the local community? What did you think about the local reaction? Kresky It was extremely overwhelming. It—I—I grew up in a really rural, conservative area that’s—I mean I g—I grew up in a time where—or—and in a place where being gay could, you know, send you home in a black bag. Like that was—it was a dangerous time. You don’t talk about it. You don’t act on it. Um, and then I come into this community, where, you know, the—it was like the second night and we’re still trying to figure out how many people and what was going on. And then you have this huge gathering, you know, right on the lawn of the Dr. Phillips Center [for the Performing Arts]. And you look out there and there’s—there’s no more green space. There were so many people there. It was just—it was so surreal to see that level of support for the LGBT community. And then, you know, the city as a whole. Mm. Schneider Um, and what other moments stand out for you, um, in that time period of—of all the vigils and events and things happening? Do any other moments come to mind? Kresky Um, I think, uh, you notice [laughs] I won’t say. They had the—they had the, um—at the dogs. They had the, uh—I—I don’t know how many times that I—I was in human services for 10 years. And I really s—believed in pet therapy. I loved it. And I knew that in times of crisis, people would come in with these therapy dogs. And, you know, it was just to kind of bring a little soothing and maybe even kind of just ground you, if just for the moment. And I realized the gravity of the situation. And how much of a—how much of a tragedy on our community it is. Again, this was all surreal. I mean, there was—there was no reality to this. And I realized how bad it was when the therapy dogs were there. And they had traveled miles to get there. And they’re walking through the crowd with these dogs. Because this is something I had studied. This is something that I knew. And it felt great because in participating in the—you know, [inaudible] on the dog that’s there. But, again, to realize the reality of the situation that these dogs were there. Mm. Schneider Um, did you—what did you think about or experience in terms of the national, maybe the international—but broader… Kreksy Mmhmm. Schneider …reactions to the event beyond just the local community? Kresky Um, can you rephrase the [inaudible]? Schneider Um… Kresky Sorry. Schneider …what did you think about the reaction of people beyond Orlando to the Pulse shooting? Kresky Um, I guess as the chorus traveled, we got to maybe s—witness, uh, a very la—a very large—I guess a greater view of that. I mean you he—you see—you see responses on CNN. You see responses on Facebook. You—and you’re—and you’re watching the feeds and whatnot. But, you know, you realize s—support, but you didn’t really feel it until you walked to the car rental desk. And they look at your driver’s license and they say, “Oh. Orlando.” And then they want to talk about it. And they want to—they’re looking for some sense of closure as well. You don’t realize that it hurt our community. It hurt our city. But it also impacted the nation pretty heavily for the couple weeks that it was running in the media. I think we, even after Denver, um—Manny and I—my husband and I went to, uh, California for a couple of days. And, you know, you couldn’t esc—we were trying to just escape Pulse for a little bit. We’re just gonna go have fun and unwind. But when you hand over your—your driver’s license or they ask you to fill in the visitor’s book and then they say, “Orlando,” or then they want to talk about it, you realize that it comes from a place of genuine warmth and kindness. But it’s, again, very overwhelming. You—you—you realize how big this was. Schneider Um, and so can you tell me now about the GALA in Denver… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …in 2016—so after Pulse—and what that experience was like? Kresky Whew. That’s—that’s a lot to tell [laughs]. Schneider [laughs]. Kresky Um, we—in 2—and we’re talking about 2012 or 2016? Schneider Um, 2—whichever do you like. Kresky Okay. Schneider But I… Kresky Sure. Schneider …I was thinking 2016. Kresky So in 2012, you know, we were just—we’re the campy little choir with the Mickey [Mouse] ears. And everybody loves to come see Orlando because we bring the fun. And we bring—you know, we bring the little silly with us. And—and, you know, we are—our songs tell a story. It’s a very kind of—you get the warm fuzz and you leave. This year—this time when we went, we didn’t—we didn’t even have to sing to—to get accolades. To get warmth through, um—the first day, we were—we were invited to a singalong with a couple of the choruses. And we’re basically just kind of backup. Right [laughs]? It was walking in, uh, doing—doing our lines and then leave. And the crowd didn’t let us leave. The crowd—cr—crowd wouldn’t even let the concert start. Because we were—we’re the last people to walk into the hall. Nobody announced us. They just saw our shirts. And there was an immediate standing ovation. Just because we were walking [cries] by. Just because we were walking to the hall. You could, um—I mean you could see—just our presence, you could see people crying. You could see them holding each other. And its hard—it—initially, it was hard because we were the group that was invoking tears. But then you realize we were the group that was [clears throat]—we were the group that was invoking solidarity. [sniffs] There were—there were banners everywhere that says[sic], you know, “We Stand with Orlando,” “Orlando Strong.” Um, you know, these are probably from people that may have never even been to our city. And there they are standing with us. All supporting us because, you know, their brothers and sisters were attacked. It was—we—we performed three different times when really we’re—initially s—we were supposed to only perform once. We were supposed to perform this cheesy little montage that we pulled over from our—our spring show. And it just—within moments of—of the incident, we realized we had to go ch—completely change the whole set. And pull from wherever we could to create something that was, uh, you know—that was heartfelt. That would maybe bring about some sort of healing. Um, w—we had—so we had our invitation for the first night. Then we did our performance. Um, and again, the—the—these performances are timed, so the minute you hit the stage, you have x amount of minutes to perform and get off. They moved our set to the end ‘cause they knew they couldn’t time us. They knew that just by walking on the stage we would have to wait for the applause to end. And it was right. We walked in. There was standing room only. We’ve never had that before [laughs]. I mean we—the—the amount of—of support and warmth that outpoured was just incredible. And then—then there we were again, um, for, my goodness—it was En—was it “Engendered Species”? I can’t even remember. There were so many [laughs]. And, again, it was just our presence that just kept on bringing the crowds of people wanting to feel like they were a part of—of us. And I—and I really hope that, you know, we were able to make that happen for them. That we were able to help them find some kind of closure or some sort of healing as well. Mmhmm. Schneider And how did people ac—interact with you from the other choruses on a personal level outside of the actual performance when you met people? Kresky Sure. The—the first night, I was afraid to even wear my Orlando shirt because I knew people would want to talk to us about it. And I personally wasn’t ready. I did not want to—I did not want to be Orlando. I just wanted to be a GALA singer. And then you run out—you run out of clothes. No. I’m kidding [laughs]. No. Um, I—it just—I saw some of the other chorus members wearing their shirts. Realized it was going to be okay to wear mine. But as soon as I put it on, like random people would hug you. Even people that weren’t even going to the GALA conference, they’re just, you know, on the—the bus with you, trying to get somewhere downtown, want to hug you. And it was—it was—it was wild. I’m a hugger. Um, I—I’m not opposed to human touch. But, oh, my goodness [laughs]. It was—it was a lot [sniffs]. Schneider Um, and I’m also wondering if Pulse as a site meant anything… Kresky Mmhmm. Schneider …to you before the shooting. And, um, what, if anything, it represents for you now. Kresky Um, before the shooting, it was a place where the kids go. And I—I’m really not that old. I’m, um, in my mid-thirties. Uh, but the crowd that attended Pulse was, you know, a younger crowd. A trendier crowd. Maybe a thinner crowd [laughs]. Scheider [laughs]. Kresky But, you know, they were, um—they—it wasn’t usually—it wasn’t typically a place that I would—I would go to. It wasn’t—it wasn’t my home bar I guess. Um, I knew of it. I drove by it. It looked like a great, you know, fun place. And I got—there were times where I—I intended to go and visit just because it was something different. But I don’t know. I felt like I would be a little out of place. Afterward, it just became, you know, just a—a living memorial. It just—it sits there and it—it, um—it almost reminds—it almost makes—it’s kind of a mark of this overcoming silly divisions that are even in our own community. In the LGBT community. You know? We create our little cliques. Our little groups. And you realize that, you know, we’re all dealing with the same struggles. And we’re all dressed in the same flesh. And to drive by the building anymore is sh—you know? The first time, it was horrific. You know? I s—I tried to—days—days upon days just avoiding streets to get around it and not having to pass it. But then the first time I passed it, you know, reality sank in that, yep, this is the place. And now, the building itself is almost like a—almost like a mausoleum. It’s—it—it’s hard to look at it. It’s hard to drive by it. Um, you know, I—we—we had coworkers from our company that—that had passed away in the tragedy. Um, and it just, you know—it really brings it home every time. You know? How much—how much hatred can really impact a community. And how much destruction can happen because of it. You know? It’s—it’s no longer, you know, the place that you might go on a Saturday. It’s now the site of the worst, you know, massacre in modern American history. Schneider Um, and did social media play any part in your, um, reaction to your experience with the aftermath of the shooting? Kresky Um, social media became kind of an outlet to form your thoughts. You know? And we—you’re able to edit the words that you’re typing. You’re able to process things as you’re putting it out. So it almost becomes a live journal. Um, it was nice to see the support from others. Um, it also gave an opportunity to—to educate people. Pardon me. Um, you know, they immediately, as with any other, um—as with any other public shooting, you start having these discussions about gun control legislation. And you start having discussions about mental health. You i—it—it runs the whole gamut. And social media just came—became kind of a place to—a safe place to have those kinds of discussions. Mm. Schneider Um, and do have any thoughts about what the long-term consequences might be for the Orlando gay community or for the broader Orlando community or what you might hope the long-term impact of the shooting would be? Kresky Um, the long-term consequences. Initially, I was afraid that we would be stuck going back into our little boxes. Um, and maybe being less out. Um, being less true to ourselves. Uh, obviously, it seems like the—the exact opposite has happened. You know? And [laughs] you see this meme, you know, “You just pissed off the gay community. Watch out.” That kind of [laughs]—we get stuff done. Um, and sure enough I—I strongly believe that I—it’s my hope that for our city, we develop a—a tolerance for each other. Um, it’s—it’s a big enough city to get lost in. But it’s small enough to know people. And so, really hoping that this gives us a chance to reach out and get to know people that you normally wouldn’t—you normally wouldn’t associate with. You normally wouldn’t talk with. Um, on a broader scale, you know, I—I don’t know how realistic it is, but I really do hope that we begin to fund, you know, better mental health treatment. We begin to look at, um, more sane gun legislation. You know? It’s—if 49 isn’t enough, then, you know, what is? Schneider Um, and what other reflections have you had about the Pulse shooting or about your involvement in the [Orlando] Gay Chorus or anything else that you’ve been thinking about that we haven’t talked about? Kresky Mm. Let’s see. Um, don’t forget h—how your actions affect others. You know? Uh, whether it’s, you know, considering—considering acting out on such a grand scale, uh, as the shooter did, or if it is, you know, just wanting to lash out at somebody, don’t—don’t forget, you know, how—how your actions affect other people. Step outside of the box. Step outside of the tunnel vision. And that’s—I hope that that’s one of our lasting legacies. Schneider Um, is there anything else we didn’t talk about that you’d like to say or share? Kresky Um, not that I can think of. You know [laughs]? Thank you. Schneider Okay. Well, thank you so much. We really… Kresky I appreciate it. Schneider …appreciate you talking with us. <div> <div> [1] University of Central Florida </div> <div> [2] Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender </div> <div> [3] Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses </div> </div> 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting Brew City Chorus Cable News Network Chorus Connection CNN CNN.com Colorado Denver Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts Duluth Facebook fundraisers GALA Choruses Festival Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses GLBT gun control gun regulation gun violence hate crimes homosexuality Joy MCC Joy Metropolitan Community Church LGBT LGBTIQ LGBTQ mass shootings Michigan Milwaukee Pride Minnesota Nicholas Agon Kresky orlando Orlando Gay Chorus Orlando Strong Orlando United outreach events pet therapy Pillow Talk Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes Rainbows over Broadway Sarah Schneider social media terrorist attacks theme parks UCF University of Central Florida University of Central Florida Center for Emerging Media vigils https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/08737fd3f9c09f7e3f53551fdb26e188.pdf 877aa2ecefbb09034c048424c251d252 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection Alternative Title Creative Sanford Collection Subject Seminole County (Fla.) Folk plays Sanford (Fla.) Description Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, a play focusing on the people of Sanford and their determination to overcome various obstacles, including the Freeze of 1894-1895, the fall of Sanford's celery industry, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. In the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which is located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Downtown Sanford, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Contributor <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee Copper, Odetta Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Odetta Copper Alternative Title Oral History, Copper Subject Sanford (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Celery Agriculture--Florida Fishing--Florida Holidays--Florida Description An oral history of 89-year-old Odetta Copper (b. 1921), who was born on June 26, 1921, in France, Florida. She migrated to Sanford in 1946. Copper tells of her strict upbringing and the hardship she faced when growing up with her parents and nine siblings. In the interview, she also describes what it was like working on the farm, what holidays were like, and how times have changed. Type Text Source Copper, Odetta. Interviewed by Bev [last name unknown]. February 25, 2010. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida. Requires <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital transcript of original oral history: Copper, Odetta. Interviewed by Bev [last name unknown]. February 25, 2010. Audio record available. Celery Soup. Coverage France, Orlando, Florida St. Johns River, Florida Midway, Sanford, Florida Creator Copper, Odetta Date Created 2010-02-25 Format application/pdf Extent 170 KB Medium 15-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Odetta Copper and transcribed by Freddie Román-Toro. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Curator Román-Toro, Freddie Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>." Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a>." Creative Sanford, Inc.. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/. Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/320804616" target="_blank">African Americans of Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Hurt, R. Douglas. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/56422251" target="_blank">African American Life in the Rural South, 1900-1950</a>. Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 2003. Transcript Bev Mrs. Odetta [Copper], tell me something about yourself. Tell me where you grew up. Anything you want to share with me about yourself. Copper You grow up in a different way now. I wasn’t bad. We wasn’t bad, ‘cause you couldn’t be bad back then, ‘cause dey put da whoop on ya, an’ well, ain’t ever been too much until I got up kind of in my teens. It was kind of rough. I mean, got up grown or about 25-26. I was wild fo’ a while, but I finally come here, an’ it used to be kind of rough. Bev Where did you grow up? Copper I growed[sic] up in West Florida. Bev Do you remember the name of the town? Copper Dey call it France, Florida. Bev What was it like growing up there? Copper It was all form of work. School, go fo’ work, pick cotton, go to school, an’ all dat. Bev When did you come to Sanford? Copper I come to Sanford in [19]46. Bev And have you been here since? Copper Ever since. I think I was 25 or 26 when I come down here. Bev What are some of the memorable experiences you had growing up? Copper Nothin’, but getting whoopins when I need one, ‘cause at dat time, my mutha, right—it be dark when she go to work. It be dark when she come home. And we was home by ourself[sic], and she tell us to don’t go out in da yard. We didn’t go out in da yard. We had a dog. If da kids try to come in da yard, you put da dogs on da kids, ‘cause she said she didn’t want da kids there. My mama didn’t play. She’d put da whoop on you. You did what she say[sic] to do. If you did sumthin’ one time, an’ she told you not to do it, you wouldn’t do it no mo’. She didn’t whoop da clothes. She’d tell you straight, “Come at my clothes. Dey cost too much money. [inaudible] of what God gives you.” Yeah. She wasn’t playin’. Bev Are you an only child or do you have brothers and sisters? Copper Yeah, there was ten of us, but I’m da second oldest. My oldest brother—he died. When Mama told you not to do a thang, she meant for you not to do it, but you didn’t get in trouble too much back den at dat time. Children didn’t get in trouble too much back den. Bev Did you know your grandparents when you were growing up? Copper I know my granmutha, Mary, and I know dat was my mama’s mutha, an’ I had aunts. My aunts an’ my uncles—I know dem, an’ some of dem—I know dem. Yeah. Bev Do you have any memorable experiences with any of them? Any story about your grandmother? Any experiences you had with any of your uncles that you’d like to share? Did you do anything with your grandmother? Copper Well, not too much. We visited ‘er now and den, but my grandmamma was better to me dan my mama was, ‘cause my grandmamma didn’t ever whoop me, but my mama whoop me. I had a good granmutha. My granmutha lived ‘til my first child was born. She died after my first child was born, so I was wit ‘er—well, I wasn’t wit ‘er—but I visited ‘er ‘til I was about 17 years old. Den I had my first baby. Yeah, it wasn’t like it is now. It wasn’t wild like it is now. Little girls were somethin’ else back then. Dey was somethin’ else. Bev What are some of the things they would do? What are some of the things teenagers would do when you were a teenager? Copper When I was a teenager, I went to school. I didn’t give da teacha no trouble. I think I got one whoopin’ in school one time, ‘bout fightin’ in da class. I got a whoopin’ ‘bout dat. Bev Do you remember why you fought? Copper Yeah, da boy was named Douglas. He told hisself[sic] he liked me, an’ I didn’t like ‘im, an’ we was in a class—in a class standin’ up, an’ he stepped on my foot, an’ when he stepped on my foot, I went upside his head wit my fist, an’ I got a whoopin’ there. Both of us got a whoopin’ in da school fo’ fightin’, an’ she took me home an’ told mama what she whoop me fo’. Yeah. Bev And did your mama beat you again? Copper No, Mama didn’t beat me no more. Bev Do you have any pleasant, wonderful experiences from your childhood? Copper No. Bev Nothing was happy about your childhood? Copper No, all I used to do—when I went into school, a lot of white folks back up there at dat time what had babies an’ thangs. I would go out an’ take care of dey[sic] babies fo’ ‘em you know. Tend to dey babies an’ all. I’d go out ‘til it was nightfall, an’ den I’d have to go out there an’ help ‘er when she gettin’ ready to milk the cows. I’d go out there—an’ thangs like dat. It wasn’t like today. I didn’t ever get in no trouble worth nuthin’, but getting’ a whoopin’ from Mama. Bev So you came to Sanford—you said in 1946? Tell me what it was like in Sanford then. Copper It wasn’t like it is now. It was more friendly[sic] then. Da people was[sic] more friendly[sic]. Most of da people den were workin’ on the farm. Dis used to be a farmin’ place. All dis used to be farm. All of it used to be farm mostly. Bev Any other changes from the time you came? Copper It changed a whole lot. It’s not like it had been—like it used to be. Dey didn’t fight an’ kill like dey do now. Dey didn’t do dat. People more friendly[sic], but right now, people walk by you, dey don’t even speak to you. You be sittin’ down right there, an’ dey walk by, dey don’t even speak. If dey see you, dey try to head da other way. People wasn’t makin’ much money back in dem days. I work 50 hours a week fo’ $22.50 a week. Dat’s all I got, an’ so now people makin’ a lil’ more now. It’s different now. Bev Were things as expensive as they are now? So $22.50 a week could buy… Copper No, you could get a pair of sock fo’ 15 cent an’ all that, an’ da clothes wasn’t like it is now. You could take $10 or $12, an’ go buy enough clothes. Den you had to buy fo’ two weeks without goin’ back to da store, but you can’t do dat now. Bev What was it like working on the farm? You said you came here to work on the celery farm. What was it like? What hours did you do? When did you start work? And how long did you have to work? And what did you have to do on the farm? Copper We’d work from—we start da work—we start at seven fast in da spring, an’ we work ‘til da fall of da year. You had to set da plants, den you had to get a—gather da vegg’bles. And den after dat, it plant sweet corn an’ dat’s da last crop. One year, we planted cotton behind da sweet corn. So we had a year-round job that time. When da cotton come up, we had to thin da cotton out. Den had to keep da grass out da cotton. Den when da cotton got ready to pick. We had to pick da cotton. Work da whole year round. It was a lil’ better den dan it is now. It was nice when we first come[sic] down here. It was nice. Used to have a lot of fun. We’d enjoy ourself[sic] out there on da farm all day long. Nobody wasn’t—didn’t act like dey was tired, or dey didn’t say dey was tired, ‘cause more of dem was in dey twenties. Might’ve been a few maybe thirties. The oldest was over us, so we used to have a lotta fun out there. Nobody ever fighted[sic] out there on the farm. Bev What did you do on the weekends when you weren’t working? What would you do to socialize? Copper Go fishin’. I take my two children an’ go fishin’. Bev Where did you go? Copper Sometimes out to da [St. Johns] River. Sometimes out to da lakes an’ thangs. Go out. Bev Did you catch a lot? Copper Yeah, ‘cause a lotta times, when I get out from work on da farm, I had da children meet me down at da [inaudible] of da road, an’ my pole it breaked[sic], an’ I be done work [inaudible] in da summertime [inaudible]. Then I go on down to da lake—down there an’ fish ‘til dark. Bev So I’m sure you ate some of the fish that you caught. Did you sell any of them or did you give some away? Copper Said—did I eat ‘em? We ate ‘em [laughs]. Bev You had fish fries. That’s good. Copper Yeah, so I ate those fish. There was some nice, big fish down—there’s da Saint Johns River right down there. Bev Do you remember what kind of fish you were catching? Copper Well, it was all kind of fish down there. Dey musta had freshwater muddies<a title="">[1]</a> down there, but I don’t know. Back den dey called it “taste muddy.” Dey taste different dan da saltwater muddies, but dey had blue gills. Dey had shell crackles. Dey always had slammed[?] brim, an’ big catfish, an’ all dat. I enjoyed all of dat, but it’s been a long time since I been fishin’, ‘cause I can’t move around no mo’. You know I’m lookin’ at 90 years now. Bev You’re going to be 90? Congratulations. Copper The 26th of this June comin’ in, an’ I’ll be 90 years old. Bev And I hope you have many more birthdays, and live to see your great-great-great-great granddaughters and grandsons. Copper [inaudible] is my granddaughter. She’s my great-granddaughter, but she look more like she my child, yet she [inaudible] my grandchild. I got six generations. I just give da good Lord thanks every day fo’ keepin’ me here dis long, ‘cause I told ‘im I know I was bad a lil’ while, but not long. Bev The foods you were eating growing up—was it different from what you’re eating now? Do you think that helps you to live long? Copper Yeah, we didn’t hardly have to buy nothin’, but da flour meal is still called [inaudible]. Always planted a garden, an’ we had plenty vegg’bles. Plenty of it. We go fishin’ an’ catch fish. And we have sweet potatoes—had two bags of sweet potatoes in da backyard, an’ had white potatoes stored up under da house—in the dirt up under da house. We had plenty food. Plenty food. When dey’d buy syrup, dey’d buy it in a barrel keg like dat—wood, an’ had a sticker on it, but when she get ready fo’ us to have syrup, she’d always throw it out da sticker, an’ stand up there on the table [inaudible], ‘cause she’d be goin’ to work. Mama come home one day. My brutha—my oldest brutha— he done told hisself[sic], he gonna get some mo’ syrup. It wasn’t enough fo’ him. When dey open the barrel—dey open da screw on da barrel—he didn’t know how to put it back, an’ dat was bad. Syrup was everywhere. When Mama come [laughs] an’ syrup was everywhere. Bev Did he get a whoopin’? Copper You know, he used to wear a shirt so long, it feel like it was a dress, but it would be [inaudible] pants, but Mama made ‘im come out dem thangs—come out dat shirt an’ dem pants. [inaudible] den she put ‘er foot in his back like dat, an’ she had three of dem [inaudible,] an’ had dem [inaudible] together, an’ she would whoop ‘im a while. She’d tell da child’n havin’ my [inaudible]. She’d talk to ‘im again, an’ she start back whoopin’ again. Dat woman gonna kill ‘im. Dat’s what I always said to myself, but one day she got me too. Dat woman put a whoopin’ on me. Dat woman whoop me. I had blood an’ blisters from here all da way down. Bev What did you do to get that whoopin’? Copper Tryin’ to think what I had—sumthin’ she told me not to do, but I did it anyhow, but I done forgot what it was, but when dat woman [inaudible], you betta not even whimper. Don’t you whimper. You betta not whimper. You be hurtin’ so bad inside you wanna bust [laughs]. “Mama, mama. Can I—can—can I—go to da bathroom?” She said, “You better not [inaudible].” [laughs]. Bev You better hurry up and go. Copper I’d go out to da bathroom, an’ I’d crank da door to see, but she comin’ toilet. I says, “Lord, I wish dat ol’ black woman would die.” [laughs] Mama didn’t play. Bev Did she live very long? How old was she when she died? Copper Mama was 67 to 68 when she died. Bev So she lived long. Copper But I had a good mama. We didn’t suffer fo’ nuthin.’ I had a good mama. She made a life fo’ us. She work nights. She work all day long. It be[sic] dark when she go to work. It be dark when she come back, but she didn’t go to bed ‘til she cooked an’ fix us food—‘fore she went to bed. She leave dat food on da stove. She leave bread pack up like dat—cake bread—a pot of beans, a pot of greens, or sumthin’ like dat. enough to last us all day long, an’ we wasn’t hungry, ‘cause we [inaudible] just playin’ all da time, an’ we had a lotta fruit trees around us, an’ we’d eat da fruit too you know. So I had a good mom. She whoop me, but I had a good mom. Bev What about your dad? Was he around? Did he go to work? Copper No, he’s always camped out. Mama was just home wit us, but he would come home ‘bout every week or every two weeks, an’ stay da weekend, but he would go back, ‘cause he was workin.’ Bev Do you know where he went for work? Was it in Florida or was it another state? Copper [inaudible] at dat time, mens[sic] was doin’ [inaudible] work. I know you heard the tale of [inaudible] work. He was [inaudible] down there. He was ‘bout 10 or 12 miles from when where we was stayin’ at, but he whoop my brutha one time. He whoop my brutha—my oldest brutha—but we didn’t know we was stealin’. We didn’t know dat. He went over in Mr. Lang’s[?] field an’ got a watermelon—there was a watermelon field, an’ he was way out there da way he was at. My dad—Mr. Lang’s[?] house was way over there. You just could see it. Papa come over there, an’ cut da watermelon, an’ ate it, an’ da seeds an’ thangs. He seen dem, an’ ask us where we get it from, an’ [inaudible] I said, “[inaudible] went over there in dat field an’ got us a watermelon.” He said, “[inaudible], don’t you know Mr. Lang[?] woulda come by there an’ find you in dat field, he’da shot ya? He’da kill’d ya.” So he put a whoopin’ on my brutha. Den my mama happen to come down there to get us, an’ my brutha was still sick. He was throwin’ up blood, an’ den my mutha had it, and we didn’t ever stay wit him no more. Never. Bev Now, you came here in 1946. And since then, your family has been here, like you and your two kids. And all your other generations were born and raised in Sanford, right? When you came here, did you have your two kids with you or you had them here? Copper No, I had ‘em from when I come here. Bev So all their kids were born here? Okay, so you started a trend here in Sanford. Copper Yeah, all of ‘em were born here. Bev As a family, did you talk about things like ghost stories? Did you tell ghost stories growing up? Copper No. Bev What did you do for Halloween? Copper I ain’t do nuthin’ for Halloween. Da only thing we know about holidays is Christmas an’ Easter. Bev Tell us about Christmas and Easter when you were growing up. Copper Dey would dress us up fo’ Easter, but Christmas—we didn’t get toys like child’n get ‘em now, but we would have more fruit dan we would have anythin’ else. Apples, an’ oranges, an’ stuff like dat, candy, but we didn’t have da toys. Every now and den, you might get a doll. Da first doll I got—my baby brutha throwed[sic] my doll in da fireplace an’ burnt dat one up [laughs]. Den da next one I got—not da same baby, but anotha one of da babies—tore da head off my baby. Course, we didn’t get toys like dey get ‘em now. You didn’t even see ‘em den. Bev What kind of preparations did your parents make for Christmas? Did you do anything special? Did you go to church? Copper Dey cooked. Dat’s all. Yeah, cooked cake, [inaudible,] make some kinda meat. Kill goats, kill cows, kill hogs, an’ I couldn’t stand to see it. I’d have to go wit ‘em to kill da hogs—killin’ ‘em thangs. Dey’d shoot da hogs. I’d be runnin’ around da house to hide. I couldn’t stand to see it. The goats—dey’d kill ‘em. My stepdaddy [inaudible] the knife right in front of da goat—da knife dey’d cut da goat’s throat, an’ da goat was so pitiful, an’ he’s cussin’, an’ goin’ after ‘em, ‘fore dey even go [inaudible]. I couldn’t stand it. I couldn’t see ‘em kill dat goat. Dey’d hang da goat up there on da thang up there, an’ dey cut da goat up. I wouldn’t eat it. I didn’t eat da goat meat. I didn’t eat da cow meat, an’ I mighta had some hog meat, but dat cow an’ dat goat—I couldn’t eat it to save my life. Mama said, “Well, if you can’t eat dis, you must be goin’ eat some dry bread.” and I said, “Well, I’ll just get my dry bread.” And what’s da otha one she had? Some kinda vegg’ble. I’d get dat, but I couldn’t eat dat stuff. I couldn’t even cook it [inaudible]. I couldn’t smell it cookin’. My husband would always have to put da beef meat on and cook it. I couldn’t stand da scent of it. made me sick. And right now, I don’t eat it. I have never had da goat. Never. Bev What are some of the things you like to eat? Copper I tell you da truth. It ain’t very much I like right now. Nuthin', but I got to eat sumthin’, ‘cause I got to take my 10 pills a day. So I have to eat sumthin.’ because it ain’t got no taste to me now. Can’t tell exactly what I’m eatin,’ but I know I’m eatin.’ I have to eat a lil’ mouthful of sumthin.’ Bev I want to go back a little to when you came with your kids. You would go to the plantation, and you would work on the farm. And then after work and on the weekends, you’d go fishing. What kind of activities did you do with your kids outside of fishing? Did you go to church on Sundays? What was school like for them? Copper Yeah, my child’n went to school. When a movie come in, right—a show come, I take ‘em myself to da show. I’d be tired, but I would take ‘em to da show. [inaudible] I’d be there wit ‘em ‘til da show was over. I would let ‘em go to da movies, but I would tell ‘em what time. I would know what time da movies turn out, an’ I’d be sittin’ there waitin’ on ‘em, ‘cause dey used to catch da bus to go to da movie, an’ catch da bus to come back. So da oldest girl catch da bus to come on home, but my baby girl, she was so grown. She caught da bus and went Midway—back there. I think she was ‘bout 12 or 13—sumthin’ like dat, but when she come home, I was standin’ there behind da door waitin’ on her. I was fussin’ at da oldest girl, ‘cause she didn’t make ‘er— ‘cause she said she wouldn’t mind ‘er, but when she walk through dat door, I grab ‘er, an’ I put sumthin’ on her behind, an’ I betcha she ain’t ever tried it no mo.’ Bev You became your mother. Copper Dat’s da truth. I ain’t ever had no mo’ trouble wit ‘er. No mo.’ Now when I tell ‘em what time to be back—‘cause da show’s over by [inaudible] o’clock—the bus comin’ back down First Street. Dey get off the bus right there on da houses right there off [inaudible] da street. [inaudible] come in the door, and I said, “Where is [inaudible]?” “’Cause I tried to make ‘er come home wit me, but she went off an’ got out at Midway.” I said, “Okay.” I stopped dat right there. Bev Where was the show held? Was it in Sanford also? Copper Off on Sanford Avenue [inaudible]. They had a show on Stanford Avenue then—a movie show. I felt bad goin.’ I would go wit ‘em, but I was tired. You get out there and do 10 hours on that farm, you’d be tired. I told myself, “I’m gonna trust ‘em.” ‘Cause [inaudible] was pretty big. She was 14 or 15, an’ I ain’t ever had no trouble outta ‘em, until dat night when Miss Lady caught da bus an’ went to Midway. Dat was da first trouble I had ever had outta ‘er, an’ I ain’t had no more outta ‘er. Bev You made sure you stopped it. Copper Dey said I did ‘em wrong, ‘cause I didn’t let dem go when dey wanted to go, but I made ladies outta ‘em. Bev Where are they now? Where are your girls? Copper Both of ‘em—they’re here in Sanford. Baby girl live not too far from here. And my oldest live on the otha side ova there. Bev Is there any particular person you admire most out of all the people you know, whether it be a relative, or someone you worked with, or someone you know from socializing at church or anywhere? Who is the person you admire the most and why? Copper I tell you da truth, my child’n. I don’t know. People done got so funny now. People don’t have nuthin’ too much to say to nobody. I guess. I don’t know why. I ain’t ever did nuthin’ to nobody, but dey won’t speak to you. Dey black, just like you is. I guess ‘cause dey got big cars now, an’ dey got money, an’ all dat kind of stuff. Maybe dey think—I don’t know what dey think. What dey got in dey mind, but I don’t care what you got. God helped you to get it, an’ he’ll help you to lose it. You don’t ever just walk by a person, an’, you know—dey ain’t ever did nuthin’ to you, an’ can’t say, “Well, how you do today?” Or “Good mornin’,” or “good evenin’.” Da time o’ day belongs to everybody. I just don’t know what’s wrong wit dem. I sit out there sometimes, and I be sittin’ on da end of da porch there, an’ da neighbors just be goin’ to da mailbox, an’ when dey glance. See me sittin’ on da porch, dey turn dey head da other way until dey pass by, an’ I say, “Now, I don’t even wanna know dem peoples. I ain’t did nuthin’ to dem. Dey can’t say “Good mornin’” or “Good evenin’?” I been here goin’ on 15 years, an’ I can’t tell you da name of ‘em but one, an’ dat one stay on da end down there. In all 15 years. Bev Do you have any other stories about anything in your life that you would like to share with me? Anything about your six generations? Copper Well, I tell you da truth. Dis ol’ lady here done forgotten ‘bout everythin’ she ever knowed[sic]. Ya don’ think like ya think now. Ya mind don’t be rigid like you used to be. Thangs right now—when I wake up to fix me some breakfast, I be thinkin’ ‘bout what I’m gonna fix, an’ it’ll come to me here, but when I get in da kitchen, I forget what I go in there at. I set dat in there, an’ I say, Well, anyway, I needed to walk. I’ll come back an’ sit down and it’ll come back to me, but when I get in there and start tryin’ to fix my breakfast, I forget still. It take me an hour just to make some oatmeal or coffee, ‘cause by me havin’ roaches, I gotta wash everythin’ I use ‘fore I can cook it, an’ I sit there until it can come back to me. Bev But it’s good that you can do all these things by yourself. Copper But I cook my lil’ food, an’ I buy a lot already in cans. so when I do get home an’ don’t feel like tryna get up an’ cook sumthin’, I just go in there an’ open some o’ dat up an’ warm it up an’ eat it, an’ sometime I open a can o’ soup, an’ if I got a biscuit, I break da biscuit up in da soup, an’ dat’s da meal fo’ me. I hardly ever eat about once a day, but I got plenty o’ food in there. I just ain’t got da energy to move around an’ try to do like I used to do. Now I used to cook fo’ my family—fo’ my child’n—an’ invite dem fo’ Christmas. Dat I used to do all o’ dat. Bev Now they cook for you. They cook for you for Christmas. Copper No, dey bring it ova. Bev Good. The party’s still here. Copper Yeah, ‘cause dey know I can’t move ova there, so dey bring it ova an’ put it up there. Bev Now two different questions. The first one is: what was your biggest pleasure in life? If you were to think about your entire life—almost 90 years—what memory do you have that was most pleasing to you? And which one is most disappointing to you? Copper Child’n. Dis one right here. Bev Tell me about her. Tell me about that one right there. Copper I raised her up from a baby up until she about 13. Bev Valencia [Larue], right? Copper Her mama found out she could cook and could wash my clothes, an’ I was sick at dat time, an’ she used to go to da laundromat an’ wash my clothes like a lady, an’ bring ‘em back, an’ her mama come one day an’ ask me what we had fo’ dinner. I say, “We have sumthin’.” I forgot what it was, but she said, “I’ll be out there. I’m gonna eat.” so she come out there an’ fix da plate, an’ I said, “I thought you had already eaten.” she was talkin’ ‘bout how good it was, an’ I say, “Well, yo’ daughter cooked it.” She said, “My daughter cooked dis?” I said, “She sho’ did.” She said, “If my daughter cooked dis, I’ma take her home so she could cook and wash my clothes.” Bev Are you kidding? Copper She took ‘er. Yeah, she took ‘er. I had had a stroke at dat time an’ I had a—dis big here—an’ I couldn’t do nuthin’ wit dis hand. So I had her an’ she tried to cook, an’ dat girl had a head on her right there. She ain’t ever stumble. She keep goin’. Bev All right. So Valencia’s your greatest joy? What’s your greatest disappointment? Copper My grandchildren, yeah. When I was raisin’ ‘em up, I was not happy ‘bout nuthin.’ Bev Oh, you were happy about everything? Great. Copper I remember one time, after I got grown, I got fast at my mama, an’ I was so hurted[sic]. Afta I got to thinkin’ ‘bout it dat, I went back an’ went to beg her pardon, an’, at dat time, my mama was in her prime. She didn’t go out nowhere to party, but she liked to drink. Dat day—I don’t know. I forgot what it was dat come up ‘bout, an’ I tried to walk away from da house without saying nuthin’ to her, an’ I went down da road, an’ she was following me, an’ she caught up wit me, an’ caught my clothes, an’ snatched on my clothes. I said, “I’ma tell you da truth. If you wasn’t my mama, dis is one day I would whoop yo’ so and so.” [laughs]. Bev About how old were you then? Copper I was grown then. I was grown, an’ my child’n were grown. I tried to get away from ‘em, but I guess da Devil was there anyway, but I tell you da truth, she was snatchin’ on my clothes an’ shakin’ me. She said, “Act like I ain’t yo’ mama. Whoop me.” I went to cryin’. I turned around an’ went on my way. She turned around—she was drinkin’ at dat time, but I tell you da truth, I was sorry fo’ many a days I said dat to her. Talkin’ ‘bout whoopin’ on my mama, but she upsetted[sic] me. I had a good mom. She would do things that aggravate me. She’d go an’ put on two or three dresses. One [inaudible], put on an old coat, some old shoes, an old hat, an’ go walkin’ down da streets an’ all dat. Then I’d know people be laughin’ at her, an’ I think she was doin’ dat to aggravate me, an’ dat would hurt me. So I said, “Well, she should come to my house an’ do it.” Sometime I’d ease on out an ‘go on down da back way an’ be right there in da house. When I’d come back, she’ be long gone [laughs]. That would aggravate me, but I had a sweet mom. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Mudfish. </div> </div> 1st Street African Americans agriculture caregivers celery Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Christmas Creative Sanford, Inc. discipline farming farms First Street fish fishing food France, Florida goats holidays Lang Midway mudfish Odetta Copper orlando race relations Sanford Sanford Avenue St. Johns River Valencia Larue https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e5f1b00a93b0197a69f9a4a61928eac6.pdf 66008a72752edb60e31f36f3c4b33e39 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oviedo Collection Alternative Title Oviedo Collection Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Oviedo, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Oviedo began on the south shore of Lake Jessup as a settlement called Solaria's Wharf. Some of its early settlers include Dr. Henry Foster, Joseph Watts, and Steen Nelson. Citrus and celery dominated the area's farmland, although Central Florida suffered a severe freeze in 1894. Oviedo suffered another disaster in 1914 when a fire wiped out much of the downtown section. Disaster hit again in 1929 with the Wall Street Crash and the beginning of the Great Depression. That same year, Oviedo's fruit crops were decimated by a fruit fly infestation. Another fire destroyed the Wheeler Fertilizer Plant in 1946. Nonetheless, Oviedo continued to grow, with new paved roads going to Geneva and Chuluota and the opening of the Citizens Bank of Oviedo in 1948. In 1949, Oviedo began receing once-a-day bus serviece to Orlando from Greyhound Lines. By 1950, Oviedo was the second largest town in Seminole County, following Sanford. The Oviedo City Hall was built that same year and in 1968, Florida Technological University (present-day University of Central Florida) opened, bringing new residents to the area. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 41: Oviedo, with Dr. Richard Adicks</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494. Robison, Jim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/796757419" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. [Place of publication not identified]: [publisher not identified], 1979. "<a href="http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Oviedo, Florida. http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68. "Oviedo Began as Solaria's Wharf." The Oviedo Heritage, June 30, 1977. Contributor Cepero, Laura Lynn Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Ray Coverage Oviedo, Florida Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/147" target="_blank">Oviedo Historical Society Collection</a>, Oviedo Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/fbQUn0RsVDE">Oral History of Oviedo Plane Crash (1962)</a> Title Oral History of Oviedo Plane Crash (1962) Alternative Title Oral History, Oviedo Plane Crash Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Plane crashes Sanford (Fla.) Navy Description On Saturday, March 6, 2021, a historical marker was unveiled honoring the crew of a 1962 plane crash in Oviedo. A Naval A3D Skywarrior Airplane based at the Sanford Naval Air Station would crash in the Oviedo area narrowly missing a school ground full of children. The pilot, Lt. Charles Hodgate, was credited with navigating the airplane away from the school ground, defying orders to bail out, and subsequently claiming three members of the crew including Navy Petty Officers John W. Bush, Horace Marks and Lt. Charles Hodgate in the crash. Hodgate would later be the basis for the narrator character in the community-storytelling series from Creative Sanford entitled "Celery Soup." Abstract Oral history interview of Crash Witnesses: Jim Jones, Steve Mello, Mary Courier Scott, Tom Minter, David Evans, Thad Lingo, Thomas Moon, Charles Richard Hodgate, Tracy Hodgate Montour. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Oviedo, Florida, on March 6, 2021. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Jim Jones 0:01:49 Steve Mello 0:02:57 Mary Courier Scott 0:04:01 Tom Minter 0:04:58 David Evans 0:07:05 Thad Lingo 0:09:08 Thomas Moon 0:11:17 Charles Richard Hodgate 0:12:54 Tracy Hodgate Montour Creator Cravero, Geoffrey Jones, Jim Mello, Steve Scott, Mary Courier Minter, Tom Evans, David Lingo, Thad Moon, Thomas Hodgate, Charles Richard Montour, Tracy Hodgate Source Jones, Jim; Mello, Steve; Scott, Mary Courier; Minter, Tom; Evans, David; Lingo, Thad; Moon, Thomas; Hodgate, Charles Richard; Montour, Tracy Hodgate. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, March 6, 2021. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2021-03-06 Date Copyrighted 2021-03-06 Has Format Digital transcript of original 14-minute, and 21-second oral history: Jones, Jim; Mello, Steve; Scott, Mary Courier; Minter, Tom; Evans, David; Lingo, Thad; Moon, Thomas; Hodgate, Charles Richard; Montour, Tracy Hodgate. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/128" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oviedo Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 693 MB Medium 14-minute, and 21-second audio recording 9-page digital transcript Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Oviedo, Florida Oviedo School (Lawton Elementary), Oviedo, Florida Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jim Jones, Steve Mello, Mary Courier Scott, Tom Minter, David Evans, Thad Lingo, Thomas Moon, Charles Richard Hodgate, Tracy Hodgate Montour, and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Castro, Amanda. "<a href="https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/05/i-wouldnt-be-here-today-if-it-werent-for-these-heroes-monument-honors-crew-members-who-died-in-oviedo-plane-crash/#//" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">'I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for these heroes:' Monument honors crew members who died in Oviedo plane crash</a>." Click Orlando, March 5, 2021. Accessed July 7, 2022. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/05/i-wouldnt-be-here-today-if-it-werent-for-these-heroes-monument-honors-crew-members-who-died-in-oviedo-plane-crash/#//. Jones, James M. "<a href="https://www.oviedohistoricalsociety.com/blog/oviedo-plane-crash" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Eyewitness to History. A first-hand account of a selfless act that saved many lives here in Oviedo</a>." Oviedo Historical Society, March 6, 2021. Accessed July 7, 2022. https://www.oviedohistoricalsociety.com/blog/oviedo-plane-crash. Transcript Jones Okay, I’m Jim Jones. Uh… I was in the 11th grade, at Oviedo high school the day of the plane crash. I was in Jack Calbert’s 11th grade English class, uh, staring out the window, instead of paying attention to my studies like I should have I guess, and uh, looking out over to the west I saw three planes suddenly appear over treetop. Well— uh, the two outside planes, on either wing, were, uh, vigilantes—later designated as A3Js. They were helping escort the wounded um, or crippled I should say, uh, A3D plane, and as soon as they uh—this all happened in an instant—as soon as they cleared the treetops a parachute appeared. The two wing planes peeled away ‘cause they saw it was a school, and then the A3D, uh, commanded by Lieutenant Hodgate, realized it was a school and he could not clear it, so he only had two choices, either crash into the school, or to, uh, do a maneuver to avoid it, and he did just that. He maneuvered the plane, and it became vertical, and he crashed into the ground there about 50, probably maybe 75 yards, from the school property. And, uh, that’s about it. After that, uh, my business teacher, Novella [Noella] Holland across the hallway came and got me and she said, “Jimmy go over and check on Mert and Bill Ward,” friends of hers that lived there by the crash. So, I took her old car and managed to get over there. ‘Course they were okay, and I went to the scene of the crash. Nothing anybody could do, of course. And, uh, that was about it. It was, uh, a tragic day. It was a hectic five or six seconds is all that it took. Thank you. Mello Okay. My name is Steve Mello. I started at Oviedo in—in the 5th grade. Um, moved over here from Sanford. Um, I was at the school when the plane incident happened. I was out in the playground area, having Phys-Ed (clears throat). I was in the, uh, 8th grade at the time. I noticed the plane coming in, but I really didn’t pay much attention to it. I wasn’t sure what I was looking at. Then all of a sudden I saw a parachute come out and then the plane started to turn. And as it was turning it was coming down and crashed over by Clark Street, I guess. A bunch of us started moving down the railroad tracks at that time and, uh, they stopped us and said, “Don’t go—don’t go down that way. You know, just, uh, hold fast where you’re at.” And that was about it. And it took a while for it to sink in, what had actually happened, you know, then they talked about it in school the next day in assembly. And that—that was, uh—that was my experience with it. Scott Hi, I’m Mary Courier Scott. I was in the 4th grade when the plane crash occurred, and I was on the east side of the building, so I did not see anything. I was in Marguerite Parton’s, uh, room. And she had two daughters at the high school then (background chatter). And all I know is that we heard a crash and we saw a lot of smoke. And heard a lot of commotion going on. And then later learned from our teacher what had happened, and we had to stay in the classrooms for the rest of the day. But what a sacrifice this man made for us. And my grandmother lived in Sanford near the, uh, naval air base. Actually rented, uh, an apartment to navy pilots, and one of them knew about the crash and all. So anyway, a sad day. But what a great honor for us to be able to do this and have the family with us. Thank you. Minter Uh, I’m Tom Minter. Uh, I was in the 10th grade. I was on the playground. Uh, actually heard the planes coming just as they cleared the, uh, oak trees on the west end of the field. Um, I was later told that the two outside planes were actually trying to give him some lift on that center plane that was having engine trouble. When he saw the kids on the playground, he just pulled the thing up and did a backflip, flipped off kind of to his right side. Um, one of the guys parachuted out and, um—and crashed right there. Um, and that was just kinda pretty much it. It was, uh—it happened just in mere seconds, uh, just a real split-second decision on his part to, uh—to avoid hitting a playground. And, um, I’m sure it saved a lot of people’s lives right there when he did it. Playground was pretty much full. Well, as much as it could be at that time. But anyway, um, that’s my account. That’s about it. Thanks. Evans All right my name is David Evans. Uh, I was born in Orlando, a—at—um—at the, uh, old, uh, Florida Hospital, uh, Orlando Sanitarium. And, um—but I grew up in Oviedo, and I was in the 8th grade. Um, and what I remember so distinctly is that we were out on the—out on the playground, and we heard this crash, uh, we ran down the railroad track, uh, towards the corner of, uh, Lake Jesup and Clark Street. And a—a ball of—a ball of smoke was going up, uh, and there was a parachute in a tree, uh, on the corner there. Um, the northwest corner was a Dancy tangerine grove owned by Billy West. And up rolls up a fire engine, uh, from the volunteer fire department, um, and it was all a blur and, um, at, uh, 14 years of age and in the 8th grade, um (background chatter). Now some 50 some-odd, 60 years later it’s a little—a little difficult to, uh, to separate all of it, uh, but it was, um, really remarkable. I’ve looked up—the A3D is, um—was the first, uh, jet bomber that the navy had that was capable of landing on a—a—a, uh—uh, landing on a, uh, aircraft carrier and also capable of, um, of, um, carrying a nuclear weapon, and to—it was one the first early jets that did not have ejection seats, which kind of explains why uh, the—the pilots and, uh, the crew were not able to get out except for—for the one survivor. So, um, that’s my record—recollection and, um—and I’m just excited to be here and—and, um—and honor the pilots and, uh—and the crew, uh, and the—and the family that was able to return back to Oviedo here some, um—some, uh, 50 or 60 years later. Um, alright. Thank you much. Cravero Alright. Lingo My name is Thad Lingo. I—I was, uh, 16 years old when the event occurred. I was in English class on the first floor of the two-story school. Uh, uh, we always heard jets, but on that particular day the jet noise was real loud. We all looked in the direction it was coming from and there was a jet airplane flying very low coming right at the school. I saw a guy come out of the airplane on the left side. It was right over the treetops when he went out and the jet exhaust blew his parachute open, he was horizontal, and then he was on the ground that quick. And during that same happening, the pilot pulled the nose of the plane up, made a right turn, and went I think tail first right into the railroad bank, and there was a humongous explosion. We could feel the heat in the school coming through the window—the windows were open ‘cause we didn’t have air conditioning. Uh, it was—as soon as it happened, I thought, “Well, the fire department needs to know about this.” So—(background chatter) and I happened to remember, at 16, the fire department. So, I ran from the school to the fire station, we had, uh, an air raid siren. Push the button for that would sound the siren to get the fire department involved. And my dad was fire chief. He pulled up. It was just us two there at the time. He said, “Son you take that fire truck, I’ll take this one.” And I drove to the scene of the crash. And it was a horrible, horrible sight. And I’ll never forget the man that got out had walked across the street to the crash site. He was standing there looking at that thing, and it just was heartbreaking to see that. And, uh, that’s it. Moon Okay. Thomas Moon. I was in the—the 6th grade at the time. And, uh, we were on the playground out here in high school—or Oviedo High School at that time. And uh, we heard a big roar coming our way and turned around and looked and saw two planes go over. And I happened to see a parachute drop into the orange grove right there on the corner of Lake Jesup and, uh, Clark Street. And then all of a sudden, we had a big—that big fireball came up when it hit the—hit the ground there. And I mean the playground just cleared out. Everybody was running towards the—towards the bank—the main buildings. And it was really a scary situation. And I grew up right on Clark Street. And my mother said that the windows shook in the house when that plane hit the ground. And just everybody was so, you know—e—everybody was so worried about the people that were on board. And even at 12, 11—12 years old—it really—it really was a shock for a long time there before it kind of got up—¬a little bit got over it. And pretty much, uh, you know, we—I tried to keep up with the names of the guys when they—when the—the three that were in the plane and then the one that parachuted out. And there was a little article in the Orla—in the Sanford Herald at that time about him. How he broke—broke a leg or two. And that was his third time bailing out of an aircraft going down. And he said, “I think I’m going to look for ground duty (laughs) from here on out.” My dad said, uh, “I don’t blame him. I think the first one I would’ve been looking for ground duty after that.” But, uh, pretty much that’s, uh, that’s the account that I have. Hodgate I’m Charles Richard Hodgate. I was born in Sanford, Florida in 1960. Um, my mom—Charles—Lieutenant Charles Hodgate was my father. My mom moved to Massachusetts about 1964, which is where I—I live today. Um, say that I was very, very young when my father passed away. So less than two years old. My sister wasn’t—wasn’t yet born. So there was—I only have the vaguest memories of my father. Being picked up by strong hands and whirled around when we were hurt. And tickled a little. And rough whiskers and kisses. And laughing. And I’m not even sure that those memories are real. But I hold them dear, nonetheless. My sister doesn’t even have that, as my mom was pregnant when the—my father died. So it was— I don’t know how much of it was a sense of loss, but there’s always been a piece missing in the family, who, uh, growing up, um, I—it doesn’t go away, really. Yeah. ‘Cause I remember one day, uh, my daughter asked me when she was adult on Christmas night, you know, if I could have had anything for Christmas what would it have been. And I said, “I wish I could just play catch with my dad one time.” That’s what I—that’s the one thing I could do. Wish I could’ve played catch with my dad. That’s all I’ve got. Montour Hi, I am Tracy Hodgate Montour. Um, Lieutenant Charles Hodgate was my father. Uh, he never knew I existed. Um, my mom realized she was pregnant the day of the funeral. Um, we grew up, uh, in Massachusetts. after I was born here in Sanford. Um, but we moved to Massachusetts to be close to my father’s mother, who was—uh, he was her only child. So he had grown up in Fall River, Massachusetts. And that’s where we grew up as well. Um, we grew up hearing stories not so much from our mom but from my dad’s best friend, who is also, um, my brother’s godfather. Uh, we would meet with them probably once every couple of months. Get together on (background chattering) a regular basis. And that’s where we learned most about, um, my dad and what he liked and what he didn’t like, um. And, uh, you know, we—we grew up knowing he was a hero, but we didn’t know the whole story of what happened until Jim Jones contacted us and he gave us his, um, (background chatter)—his memories of it. And that—that’s kind of clarified things a bit for us. And we’ve just—we’ve just been amazed with everything that we’ve learned here and all the people we’ve met. And just so grateful to have been able to come here. Thank you all. Celery Soup Charles Hodgate Charles Richard Hodgate David Evans Geoffrey Cravero Horace Marks Jim Jones John W. Bush Mary Courier Scott Naval A3D Skywarrior airplane Oviedo Oviedo plane crash Oviedo School Sanford Naval Air Station Steve Mello Thad Lingo Thomas Moon Tom Minter Tracy Hodgate Montour https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9a286a6f755d844f675354e955e5642a.pdf 61f2719e5cadc99a144778de63ba9150 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection Alternative Title Creative Sanford Collection Subject Seminole County (Fla.) Folk plays Sanford (Fla.) Description Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, a play focusing on the people of Sanford and their determination to overcome various obstacles, including the Freeze of 1894-1895, the fall of Sanford's celery industry, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. In the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which is located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Historic Sanford Welcome Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Downtown Sanford, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Contributor <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Thompson, Trish Román-Toro, Freddie Interviewee Black, Patricia Ann Hardy, Billy Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Patricia Ann Black and Billy Hardy Alternative Title Oral History, Black and Hardy Subject Sanford, (Fla.) Education--Florida Race relations--Florida Army Description An oral history of both Patricia Ann Black (b. 1956) and Billy Hardy (b. 1956). Hardy was born on August 17, 1956, and Black was born 14 days later on August 31. Both grew up at the end of Tenth Street in Sanford, Florida. This oral history interview was conducted by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. Hardy and Black attended Hopper Elementary School through sixth grade, Lakeview Middle School for seventh grade, Sanford Junior High School for eighth grade, Crooms High School for ninth grade, and Seminole High School through twelfth grade. They talk about what life was like in Sanford during segregation and what happened to make integration possible. Black talks about what her education in New York was like when compared to that in Sanford. Hardy discusses how football helped ameliorate tensions among blacks and whites. He also shares his experiences in the Army. Black and Hardy also discuss their childhood romance and how circumstances changed their relationship. Hardy also speaks about his time in technical school and his passion for cars. Other topics include the differences between attending school in New York and Florida, the Trayvon Martin case, and the sexual abuse of Black as a child. Type Text Source Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida. Requires <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford Florida. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital 22-page transcript of original oral history: Black, Patricia and Billy Hardy. Interviewed by Trish Thompson and Freddie Román-Toro. March 2013. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a>, Sanford, Florida. Coverage Hopper Academy, Sanford, Florida Lakeview Middle School, Winter Garden, Florida Sanford Junior High School, Sanford, Florida Crooms High School, Sanford, Florida Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida Creator Thompson, Trish Román-Toro, Freddie Black, Patricia Ann Hardy, Billy Date Created 2013-03 Format application/pdf Extent 198 KB Medium 22-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Trish Thompson, Freddie Román-Toro, Patricia Ann Black, and Billy Hardy. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Curator Román-Toro, Freddie Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> External Reference Gilmore, Henry Francis. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/78907105" target="_blank">A Study of Attitudes of Negro Teachers Toward the Supreme Court Decision and Other Issues of Desegregation in Education</a>. Thesis (Ed.D.)--Teachers College, Columbia University, 1957. Humphrey, Hubert H. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/189150" target="_blank">Integration vs. Segregation</a>. New York: Crowell, 1964. Jenkins, Sallie S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52692084" target="_blank">A Historical Investigation of School Desegregation in Seminole County School District</a>. Thesis (EdD.)--University of Central Florida, 2002, 2002. Kharif, Wali Rashash. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/10501914" target="_blank">The Refinement of Racial Segregation in Florida After the Civil War</a>. Thesis (Ph. D.)--Florida State University, 1983, 1983. Yancy, George, and Janine Jones. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/810119075" target="_blank">Pursuing Trayvon Martin: Historical Contexts and Contemporary Manifestations of Racial Dynamics</a>. Lanham: Lexington Boos, 2013. Transcript Thompson How did y’all meet? [laughs]. Hardy We grew up at the end of Tenth Street. Our house was the last house on the street. And it just so happened that my birthday was August 17th, 1956 and yours was… Black Mine was August 31st, 1956. And we’re like 14 days apart and our mothers carried us at the same time. And we’re at the dead end of East Tenth Street. so I’m at the corner and he’s at the end. It was just us two kids. There were others in the neighborhood, but… Hardy Not as close as we were. Thompson So you went all through school together? Hardy Pretty much. Thompson What school? Hardy In elementary school, it was Hopper [Academy]—between Eleventh [Street] and Celery Avenue—and afterwards, it was Lakeview [Middle School] for seventh grade, I think. Black Yeah. We were 12 at Lakeview and we went to Sanford Junior High [School] at 13. Thompson And where was Sanford Junior then? Black That’s Sanford Middle School now. It’s the same one. Thompson Oh. It’s on [U.S. Route] 17-92. Black Yes. The next year we went to Crooms [High School], which became our ninth grade. Then we went to Seminole [High School]. Thompson So you were there for the integration of—or you were one year after? Hardy No. We were in the midst of it. Black We were in fourth grade when that began to happen, so we kind of had a choice for our fifth grade. Our parents could decide if they wanted to send us to the other school, because they didn’t close Hopper or anything like that. Hardy It just made an opportunity to go to other schools, if they wanted to, but we stayed. It was right around the corner [laughs]. Black We lived one block away. It was on the corner of Eleventh and Bay [Avenue] and we lived on Tenth and Bay so—my parents left the choice up to me, because all my life I’ve always gone to integrated schools. I began school in New York state and… Thompson Oh, so you left? Black I would leave every year. My father was a migrant crew leader, but they lived here. They stayed here. My parents’ work was as a migrant to carry people up north to pick apples—to harvest the fruit. Thompson And so you went to school up there every year? So you were just home in summertime? Black And I spent all my summers in New York. I began school in New York and I would end it here every school year. From September to November, up to the week before Thanksgiving, I would go to school in New York. Then we’d come down here and I’d finish school. And it used to be June 6th that would be the last day of school, and then as we got older it would be June 11th. The next day, my mom and I would get on a Greyhound bus and go to Rochester[, New York] to visit with my sisters, and my father would come up around July 5th—out to the migrant camp that we lived on. Román-Toro Could you elaborate on the differences between going to school up North and coming to school here? Black Yes. I sure can. For me, it was more of a freedom. When I’m in New York, I could be myself. I could be all that I thought I could be. I went to school with whites. I started out with whites, so in school, there was no limit to what we were taught we could be—even the black students. However, down here I had to go to an all-black school, which wasn’t a problem, as far as it being black. I knew I fit in there. However, at a very early age, I learned the difference. It was kind of sad for me, especially by sixth grade, I had a grip on what was going on. I didn’t like when I got to Florida, I had to feel “less than.” Thompson When you were in Florida, did you feel like the teachers didn’t tell you you could be all that you could be? Did the teachers treat you different in the North and South? Black No, but there is a difference and I saw the difference. The teachers here did all they could, but you still left school thinking that you could go no higher than a teacher. We weren’t taught about, “You could be a doctor one day.” This is what I remember. Thompson Billy, how about you? Hardy Just like she was saying earlier. we were in that situation and, as far as going to school, that’s what we did. We knew we had to go. we knew we had to have an education, so we went. The thing about Sanford during that time was that we lived over here and they lived over there. In other words, the black part of town was over here, and the white part was over here, and our parents taught us, “You don’t go over there.” There were many parts of time that—I’ll tell you what, as I came home from service, after 23 years of service, there were parts of town that I had never seen. When I came home, I was right down Melonville [Avenue] and I said, “I’m going over here,” and I did. I rode on through the neighborhoods and I was like… Román-Toro How’d you feel about that? How’d you feel about having that opportunity to go wherever you wanted? Hardy After being in the service, basically, I was going everywhere I wanted anyway, so when I came home it didn’t matter anymore. [laughs] The door was swung wide open. When I joined the Army, the door was open so wide, it wasn’t black or white anymore. It was green. We were fighting for one purpose and one cause and that was it. Sometimes prejudice situations came up, but it wasn’t a big thing. It was pretty much—it happened. It was controlled. It was dealt with, and that was the end of it. Growing up as a child, I had to stay where my parents told me to stay. Thompson Did it make you feel fearful—them telling you that you can’t go there? Hardy It bothered me. It really bothered me, because Sundays—you know, Sunday afternoon—after a Sunday meal, everybody’s been to church. We would go out to the schoolhouse and play football. It was all the guys in the neighborhood and we would have a blast. Gosh, we would just play football all day. What happened was, some of the guys from the other side of town—the white guys—came and saw us playing football at the schoolhouse—and this is kind of what got the ball running as far as the integration part. We played ball. They played ball. We played ball over here, but they played ball over there, so when they came over and a group of them decided, “Let’s go ask. Let’s go talk,” and we began to talk and things began to change. I think there was more to it than that, but that was one of the changes I saw. Thompson So you and your peers—black and white—you made the decision to integrate before your parents? Black Our parents didn’t decide for us to integrate. It was the white man. It wasn’t our parents. I believe that all of our black parents would rather have kept us where we were. They feared. They wouldn’t have sent us out to white schools, but as time went on, white people had to make a change, so that’s where it came about. We didn’t care that it was integrated. We were fine just where we were. I chose not to go. They gave us a choice. It was a very easy decision for me. I had been looking at white people all my life, and honestly, I was afraid of the white people down here, because here there was always that segregation, but in New York—so I knew there was a difference. The white people in the South – he probably could name some white kids that we went to school with. I can’t. There were no relationships with any of the white kids that we went to school with. It’s like… Román-Toro So you were segregated, even when you weren’t segregated is what you’re saying? When segregation started informally, and then later formally, did you trust it? Did you trust that it was for sincere reasons? or did you suspect that there was an agenda behind it? Black Well, I suspected that there was an agenda behind it—that they were being forced to make it happen. They didn’t want us. They didn’t think it was the right time to do this. There was a force behind it. When I—in fifth grade, in New York state—well, I had heard it while in fourth grade down here—but in fifth grade in New York state, when it was time to move back down here in November, I remember that all the kids thought that I was so smart in school down here. The books that they were learning through, I had already studied and completed in New York. Thompson So you were getting second-hand books in Florida? Black And in fifth grade, the books were coming from the North. Yes, because when I got here and went to school and for Thanksgiving, the guy next to me, Willie Jones—when he opened his geography book—in the front they have whose name is in it and then they have the school stamp up in the corner. And there it was: “NRW,” which was North Rose-Wolcott [High] School—that I went to. I was just floored, and I went home very upset with my father, because I had asked him, “How do these books get from New York to Florida?” He told me he didn’t know, but in fifth grade I had my own evidence. I saw the book and I just—it was just never a good feeling for me. That’s where my—I am a big advocate for diversity and I have been ever since then—and with Martin Luther King[, Jr.] and John F. Kennedy—for me, in my life, even with what I was going through, I was going to be what Martin Luther King was talking about—black and white kids holding hands and walking to school together. I was going to show white people that that could be done, because I knew there was a difference between the whites in the South and the whites in the North and you’re all white, you know? Thompson I want to go back just for a minute. When you said your parents wouldn’t let you go there, did your parents explain why they didn’t want you going in those neighborhoods? Hardy Well, basically they didn’t want us going over there because it was trouble. Some of the experiences—I mean, I got dogs sicced on me. I got to the point where I just got fed up by a lot of stuff and it was—I walked to the store one day, and this guy sicced his dog on me. He had one big one and one little one, and they didn’t bite me, because I guess I was a pretty good size as a kid. I would jump at one, he’d run and the other one would try to get me and I’d jump at him, you know? I tell you what, the hatred that built up in me during that time—I was going to kill the dogs, but they died. I had something on the inside that really bothered me for a long time. and when we left Hopper and went to Lakeview it was like a big melting pot. Thompson What year would that have been? Black We were 12. That would have been [19]68. We were 12 years old. Thompson Because the integration of Crooms didn’t happen ‘til 1970. Black We were 14 at the time. Crooms was in ninth grade. Lakeview was built for the seventh grade—for all of us. Everybody was going to have to go to Lakeview. Hardy We fought every day. every day. They shut the school down once, because we fought so much. I mean, it was lunch time, and here come the buses, and it was a mess. I could honestly say that the class of ’74, from Lakeview all the way up to high school, we fought. Just to take it even a step further, I played football. My thing was football. I was big in sports, and it got to the point where I just decided, “What are we fighting for? I’m tired of fighting.” Did you see the movie Remember the Titans? We finally came together Homecoming. It took Homecoming in the 11th grade for us to come together—actually, in the 12th grade. It took Homecoming for us to come together. We were down 7-6, and we got in that huddle, and we looked at each other and decided, “That’s it. We’re going to do this.” That was the first time we joined hands and said, “That’s it. No more.” We were on defense, and I was on defense, because I played both ways. when the game started, I was on the field from then to the time the game was over. Gosh, their quarterback dropped back for a pass and we rushed him hard. And he dropped back and he threw it and one of the quarterbacks—I’ll never forget it, Jimmy Clemens, a white guy, intercepted it. We formed a wall and we wiped out everybody and Jimmy ran in for the touchdown and we won the game. Thompson But didn’t you all go to the state [championship] that year? Hardy No. We didn’t. We didn’t go to state. I’ll tell you what—it took that to bring us together. We really had a time. We really did. Thompson It wasn’t every black or white person, but it was certain ones that they had been… Hardy It was certain ones. I’ll give you a good example. I have a good friend named Pat Howard, okay? Pat were[sic] practicing one day, and I was on offense at the time. Pat intercepted the ball, and I hit him pretty hard. We were in the shower and I wasn’t expecting Pat to come up to me. He said, “You tried to kill me out there.” I said, “Coach is wearing us out out there. Nah. I didn’t try to kill you.” I said, “You all right?” He said, “Yeah.” We shook it off. The next day we got ready to line up and the coach blew the whistle. He said, “Hardy? You’re over there on defense next to Howard.” Now we’re on the same side. Now it’s getting good. “Don’t come this way,” I said. “I don’t care who you are—black or white. Don’t come this way.” Pat catches on real quick and he stood back to back with me and said, “Don’t come this way.” Now we’re having fun. Now it’s getting real interesting. We’re great friends right now. As a matter of fact, his mother has a barber shop across the street—a hair salon. Betty Ann? Thompson Oh, yeah. I don’t know her, but everybody says what a wonderful person she is Hardy That’s his mom, so when we get together we hug, fish, and talk. Needless to say, when the wall was torn down—while we were in the pot fighting—there were some friends made in the pot. The wall came down. Doing sports—the wall came down. We realized fighting wasn’t going to do us any good. “You’re here and I’m here. We’ve got to go to the same school. We’re from the same town. Hey, we might as well get along.” Thompson Your thought process is that that brought about the change, because you said, “I’m not fighting.” Then you said that to them, and they said that they didn’t want to fight either. You were really a catalyst for the change in your school. Hardy Somebody had to do something. Thompson Well, I’m glad to meet you, because that was a wonderful thing that you did. Hardy All that fighting and carrying on—it gets to the point where you’re like, “Come on. We just did this yesterday.” There was a big change. When we graduated. Tears flew. “I might never see this guy anymore.” I knew these guys, so when reunion time comes around, that’s great. We go get a ride, Pat gets drunk, and I have to take him home[laughs]. All of a sudden he’s hugging you and wants to tell you how much he loves you. The true feelings come out then. When I see him in his momma’s shop, it’s like, “Hey! You didn’t call me!” They look at us like we’re going to tear the place apart. It had to come to that. The wall inside of me fell. and it didn’t just fall, it crumbled. After I joined the service, it really crumbled, because now those I thought were my enemies were now my friends. Now we’re fighting for the same cause. I’m training them and they’re training me. I’ve been to the battlefield. Thompson Which one? Hardy [Operation] Desert Storm. I rescued so many I can’t even count the number. I was a combat medic and I’d pull them out of holes and hills, and rescued them out of the battlefields. It has been a great life and it ain’t over yet. The best is yet to come. Thompson So when you got out of the service, what did you do? Hardy I opened up an automotive repair shop in Columbus, Georgia. That’s where I live now. That’s where I’ve been ever since. I work on everybody’s car [laughs]. Thompson Now, when you were in school, did any of the girls fight? Black Well, he saw more fights than I did. I think that since I went to school in New York, when I got here, I didn’t have to put up a wall, because I understood already, because I understood what was going on. However, as an African-American, I knew where I stood and how far I could go. Which brings me back to the fifth grade and having to—it was an awful feeling to have to feel “less than.” I spent six months knowing that I was more than that. Then you get to a place where you can’t go here and you can’t go there. I think we grew up desiring not to. Which is why when we got old enough and came home, we wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. We wanted to see why we couldn’t go over there. It was to our great disappointment, because there were houses just like ours. Our house looks better than theirs. Thompson Okay, but what about the fighting? Did they do any fighting? Black Oh, yes. There was fighting. However, I would be in New York, so he would see more. The fights were always in the beginning of the school year and definitely at the end of the school year. The last day of school [laughs]. Hardy You can’t get suspended. The only thing you can do is go home. Black You’ve been saving up the whole year for the last day of school. Thompson Get even time. Black I think we even picked fights. It was the last day of school. Hardy It was wild, I tell you. I think about some of that. There was one in particular. I had a problem with one teacher. This guy—from the moment I walked in his class until the time class was done—did not like me. I didn’t bother with him, but there was this girl that liked me. She was white and she liked me. My thing was, “I can’t do nothing with you. Ain’t no way.” I wasn’t interested, but because she liked me, he was upset about it. She didn’t try to hide it. She liked me and I kept saying, “Look, I can’t do nothing with you.” And he realized what was going on, and one day, he called me outside the classroom and he said, “You are one dirty, stinking, colored boy.” It hit me and I told Dad about it and he said, “Don’t worry about it.” but I still had to deal with this guy One day in class there was a hand-cranked electrical generator. You can generate electricity with this hand-cranked electrical generator. Now, my dad was a plumber, but he was also a carpenter, and he knew electricity, and he taught me a lot of things. One of the things that he taught me about electricity was if you got in line with the electricity, if you touched it and I’m touching you, then I’m going to get it, okay? He had this electric generator in class and he was trying to prove a point, and the point was that if you touch this—he had us get into a line and hold hands and guess who was last? Guess who was next to last? The young lady. I knew what was going to happen. He was going to crank the generator. He was saying, “Y’all ready?” Everybody was ready. When he made a motion to crank that generator, I snatched my hand out of hers, and her hair stood up on her head, and she said, “Eeeeeee!” [laughs] When she hollered, he looked straight at me. I was standing there looking at him, because I knew. Needless to say, I got an F. I wound up going to summer school and I passed with a B. Stuff like that happened and I couldn’t do anything about it. I had to deal with it. Thompson So what happened to that girl? Hardy She followed us right on through high school. She was right there. I can’t remember what her name was, but she graduated. Thompson But she learned her lesson that—she didn’t mess with you again did she? Hardy We went to high school and I would see her and she would—but that was it. I couldn’t. My dad said, “No,” and that was just it. It was taboo and I just didn’t do it. You have to be obedient to your parents, so I didn’t. And with everything that happened to me, I didn’t want anything to do with that. The only thing that got me interested was when they came to the football field and said, “Hey, y’all want to play?” At first, there was a wall. After playing football the first few times, there were a couple of fights and everybody was like, “Come on.” As time went on, you get tired and you say, “Hey, something’s got to give.” Thompson So what about the girls? They fought too? Hardy Yeah. The girls fought too. You know how girl fights are—tearing clothes off, pulling hair, scratching. [laughs] There was a lot of that too, but when the girls start fighting, a lot of the guys would get in too and they would hold them and keep them from fighting. At the end of school, there weren’t enough people to stop all the fights that broke out though. The only thing you could do was get on the bus and go home. The last bell rang, run to the bus, and go home [laughs]. Thompson Well, you both have come out with really wonderful attitudes. Román-Toro How did you guys feel when the Trayvon Martin case happened? How did you act when you heard about that? Hardy I was in Georgia at the time. I was just working in my shop when I found out about it, and I was like, “Man, that thing ain’t going anywhere yet. It’s still there.” I was saying, “Gosh, the only way that this thing is going to leave this city is that some folks just have to die.” How long are we going to be upset with each other? If I get cut, I bleed. If you get cut, you bleed. It’s the same color red. The same thing God did for you, he did it for me. Some folks won’t let it die. When it happened, I was like, “Wow, here we go again.” Just when you think everything’s good and maybe there’s a chance and we’re doing all right, here we go again. It blew me away. It really hurt, because a lot of people knew me as the guy from Sanford. When I was in school, they used to call me “Sanford.” When Trayvon got killed, everybody was like, “Ain’t you from Sanford? You better look at the news. Something’s going on down there.” Thompson Did you talk to any of your friends down here? What did they say? Hardy Oh, gosh,. You know, you always get some radical friends, because this happened to Grandma and this happened to Granddaddy. The memory is still there too. People say, “I’m going to get in on it too,” and “I’m going to do something about it.” I’m like, “Hey, man. That ain’t the way.” Then the demonstration—I was so glad that they were peaceful. I didn’t want that for Sanford. I didn’t want all that fighting and carrying on. We fought enough. I’ve got a lot of sisters down here and a lot of kinfolk, and I’m like, “Hey, man. Be peaceful. Let’s let the law work for a change.” I mean, it’s obvious what happened. If the blind man heard what he said to the 9-1-1 operator, I mean, come on. You<a title="">[1]</a> were out to get that young boy and he didn’t do anything but go to the store. Now, I don’t know what had been happening in the past. I don’t know how many break-ins they had had in the past. I don’t condone that kind of stuff. I mean, if there’s a thief, let’s catch him. I don’t want him to break-in mine. I don’t want him to break-in yours either. You work hard and you don’t want anybody breaking in and taking your stuff. but Trayvon wasn’t doing that. This guy was so obsessed that he just had it out for him, and what he did was wrong. Black And overboard. Hardy The 9-1-1 operator telling you, “Wait ‘til the authorities arrive.” And you’re going to take matters into your own hands, and, as far as I’m concerned, you’re guilty. You shot that young boy and he didn’t do anything to you. You messed with him. It could have been your brother, son, or cousin. He came from Miami. I hate that he came to Sanford for this thing to happen to him, but it opened up a lot of eyes in this city—black and white. Thompson I was so proud of the City of Sanford. They had a thing from the Sheriff’s Department that said that all through that spring there were no reported fights, no break-ins, no attacks, etc. We stood head-and-shoulders above any community that was having all that outside pressure to do something and we didn’t do it. We stood together. Hardy And my sister called me and told me, “You should have been here. You should have seen the city. Everybody got together and marched.” It did my heart good. I hate what happened to Trayvon, but it sure did bring this city together and it got people to thinking. I mean, it was something deep inside of me. Black When we’re born, that’s something that’s imbedded inside of us from birth. In New York, we say that white babies are born with a backpack full of privileges, and when the black babies are born, the first thing you get is: “You’re black.” If you come from a black parent, this is one of the first things that you’re going to learn. You are Negro. It’s changed several times since then—colored, African-American, black. Hardy You heard it different. See, I heard it as, “If you’re white, you’re born with a silver spoon in your mouth. If you’re black, you get a slap on the butt.” [laughs] Thompson Okay. Now I want to hear your feelings about what happened to Trayvon. Black I’m not an avid television watcher. I certainly try to stay away from the news. I prefer the peace, because I can always hear God speaking. When the Trayvon Martin situation happened, I was unaware of it, but I was in the process of relocating from New York to Sanford, and when I got here in February, I didn’t need the TV. All of our friends and family were talking about it. What happened to me when I got here, as far as Trayvon is concerned, was that I came downtown really just trying to feel Sanford again, because we were allowed to come on First Street. We used to go to the Rexall Drugs.; we couldn’t eat at the counter thingy, but we could go and get our medicines. Then there was the five-and-dime or the 10-cent store.<a title="">[2]</a> So I came downtown and remembered [inaudible] and Manuel[?] Jacobson and, in passing one of those places and seeing that it was open, I went in. Immediately, Sarah Jacobson—I got pretty upset, because she wanted to know how I felt about it, but she felt that the world is thinking that Sanford is a horrible place now. and since I was from New York, she wanted to know how I felt. I said to her, “Unfortunately, I’ve just come from New York now, but I’ve lived in Sanford all my life, so I can’t agree with you that this is something different. This has just come out, but they have been killing all along.” That’s what I said to her. “This isn’t new. We don’t know how many black people or children someone has killed and they’re out there in the St. Johns River. I do know that, in my lifetime, Trayvon is not the first one. He’s just the one the Lord is using to clean up Sanford.” Cleaning up Sanford from the top. starting with the police department and everything. We got into a heated discussion, because I wouldn’t back down. I’m the African-American. I know what happened, so I’m not going to listen to you tell me based on what your parents—and all of that. I told her, “Sarah, but you’re still white. You don’t get to have a say in stuff like this. Your opinion is not going to matter to us or to the world, because we look at you and we still see white and all the things that conspired in the meantime.” She was very proud of her mother. Back during that time, when her mother had Manuel[?] Jacobson, she only had white ladies working for her. Somehow, it had come about in the city that they were going to boycott her, because she didn’t have any black employees. Well, one of the ladies that lived in the neighborhood heard about it and she liked Mrs. Jacobson, so when Mrs. Jacobson got to work that morning to open up the store, this lady was waiting outside so she asked her, “Why are you out here? I’m not open yet.” She said, “Well, I came to apply for that job that you’ve got.” She let her in and she said, “Well, you know I can’t hire you.” And she told her what her credentials would have to be before she could hire her and she just kindly told her that they were going to shut her down that day. She said, “I’ve come here to work for you for free as to save your life.” Sarah thought that that was really great, but not on the woman’s part. she thought her mother had done this awesome thing by letting this black lady come in there. I said, “Sarah, they were going to kill your mother.” Thompson Kill the business, not kill the mother. Black Well, I don’t see it that way. I don’t see that they were just going to get there and it was going to go over peacefully. I see Mrs. Jacobson in all of that. The black woman really put her life out there to save their livelihood. All Sarah had gotten out of that was that her mother had done this awesome thing for a black woman. Thompson Well, did the woman keep her job? Did she continue to work for her or did she just work one day for free? Black No. It was for a while until all of that had blown over. People saw that she had employed a black person. From that, Sarah just took this great pride that her mother—I said, “Well, she may have been loved enough by the blacks that this woman would come up to her, but she didn’t do anything great. She came and opened her shop like normal.” We just kind of had it out about that, and she wanted to know how I felt about the Trayvon thing. “Is Sanford really a bad place?” I said, “Well, it’s the same. Nothing’s changed.” She disagreed with me, and that’s okay. I never expected her to agree with me, but I was really pissed inside, because that brought back something. I could feel the ball and the chain around my feet while I was talking to her. What happens to us is that we know what to say to you and how to be diplomatic when we say it. However, if your attitude is the same as Sarah’s, then we have to come together and see the truth. This isn’t the first time this has happened in Sanford. We really have to control our anger. We don’t intend to be anger[sic], but it angers you when you’re talking to someone and they’re not listening. and you know they’re not listening by what they keep saying back to you. I just finally got tired of talking to Sarah and I told her I didn’t want to discuss that anymore. Sanford hasn’t changed. She said, “I could see this is really upsetting you.” She was laughing and there was this guy there watching. “What’s wrong with you, woman? Okay. it’s your money. It’s your money that’s still got you down here and you own half these buildings here, so okay.” She said, “Well, Patricia, if you’re going to open up a shop down here, you should go over across the street and talk to the black lady over there to see how she’s doing.” I said, “Why? Sarah, I don’t need that, because whatever they’re doing to her, I don’t need to hear her troubles and I’m not going to let any of you all do anything to me while I’m here. I’m from the North, Sarah.” She said, “I still think you should go over there.” I left there with a thorn. I still feel it, but it’s better now, because I get to say it to white people [laughs]. She was purposely sticking something to me. She knew she was doing it. She was laughing the whole time. That bothered me and it really discouraged me from even being downtown. I’m opening my shop over on Sanford Avenue across 25th Street. Sarah’s not invited [laughs]. Thompson Did you have other encounters with blacks or whites in Sanford that you knew when you lived here all those years? Black , at this time I’m not going to repeat any of it, because it’s not suitable for the audience. It was negative towards whites. I’m using that word, because I can and it’s true. Sanford as a city has done nothing but grown. It’s the people in Sanford—both black and white. When we speak about different situations, we’re talking about the whites. In our minds—well, they are in charge. Even if we did say “the city of Sanford,” we still mean “whites.” They had lots of opinions, but they were basically what we’ve shared about whites. Hardy Our house was next to the bushes, so there wasn’t anything else back there. There was a big ol’ yard. When I went outside—growing up, I can remember having no shirt on—short pants, barefoot. I can remember wearing a shirt, short pants, barefoot. I can remember standing in the road, because my aunt—she used to keep me, and I would always be outside when a story came on called Search for Tomorrow. Do you remember that? Thompson Yeah [laughs]. Take a look at this white hair. Hardy I remember that. Organ music and everything. And I would go outside, because I didn’t want to be inside the house—no way, no how—because it was on a black-and-white TV. I’d be outside and I’d look over there, because the house across the street was Mr. Jack and Mrs. Blanch’s. They were old folk. No one around was my age except Patricia and—and lived across the alley. Black There were other kids, but this is Tenth Street, but when you get to the stop sign, this is where I am. This is the end of Tenth Street—a dead end, actually. It was just he and I as children over here, so we all played together at some point. But at the end of the day, and even at the beginning of the day, it was he and I. Today, we are best friends. Hardy We got close. Black He can tell you what I looked like. He swears I had ponytails all the time. Hardy And it wasn’t hard to figure out who I was either. It was like this most of the time, because this is the only kind of haircut you got. [laughs] Some of the old ladies would plait them. They would take one piece of hair and make this long plait and they’d [inaudible] back and one back here—four big plaits and that was it. Black I always had plaits. Thompson Now, did she wear little dresses or would she wear shorts? Hardy She had a little dress on. Every now and then she’d come out with shorts. Black Well, at the age of seven, my mother taught me to sew. At the age of eight, I was doing well enough that, at 10, she bought me my own sewing machine. I would come home from Hopper around third or fourth grade, and all the kids would come out and gather together to go out and play. I would be finishing up my little halter and shorts, and I would go out in an outfit that I just made in 15 minutes. That’s when I would have on shorts. Yeah, but he’s my best friend. Thompson Did you ever see him play football? Black No. That was during the time we separated in spirit, due to the other part of my story. We separated even though we were still there. Thompson Talk about the separation. Black We didn’t see each other for about 50 years. Hardy We used to walk to school together. Young girls they grow up faster than we do, and they reach a certain point where they lose their mind. It’s just crazy. As young guys we’re like, “What’s the matter with them?” It’s because we don’t have that yet. It was me and you and a whole bunch of girls, and it got to the point where they were way ahead of me. I didn’t have a clue. I realized that something was going on, and at the age that I was, I didn’t want to be a part of it. We used to have to walk to school—talk about no bus. They said, “If you live two miles away, the bus will come.” Black We lived two blocks from the two miles. Hardy But they told us, “You guys can’t ride the bus,” so we walked. It was a trip. It got to the point where you would see people that lived right around the corner of the school get on the bus. They’d drive from the schoolhouse and drop them off. We used to walk. And they had gotten to the point where they had begun to walk fast, so me being the only guy, I knew something was different. You start growing up and you start looking in the mirror and you see them and you see yourself and you say, “Nah. I don’t fit. I’m not what they’re looking for.” When they sped up, I slowed down, because I just didn’t—you know, after you’re called “ugly” enough… Thompson You were shy. Hardy No. I went through school being called ugly, big head, big lips, big feet, and all this stuff. You know, after you hear that enough, you kind of think, “You know, I don’t want to deal with that.” Then I would purposely wait until I would see them turn the corner, and then I would walk on to school. When I got to Sanford Middle School, I already had a license. At 13 years old, I had a driver’s license. I had restriction at 13. I had operator’s at 14. All that walking was done once I got my license. One of my uncles had a car that was in the bushes and I wanted the car. He laughed me up under the porch. He laughed and laughed. And I stood there until he finally said, “You really want that car, don’t you?” He said, “If you could get it out of the bushes, you can have it.” I went and got my dad’s truck and pulled it out of the bushes. I carried it over to my house, and three days later, I drove it over to his house [laughs]. I had my driver’s license, and I taught my aunt, which was his wife—I taught her how to drive, because he’d try, but he’d freak out and holler at her. I taught her how to drive, so he loved me. I was driving his truck and he bought a Cadillac for her, and she was scared of that car. It was so big. I would drive the Cadillac. Woo, man. The car I pulled out of the bushes. I would drive that. It wasn’t a big deal. Thompson Okay. I want to hear a little more about the car. What kind it was and what you did to repair it? That became your life’s calling? Hardy I was fixing [inaudible] and lawnmowers since I was eight years old. I didn’t know why. All I knew was that I could do it. When I got the car—which was a ‘64 Oldsmobile Starfire—it was like a tank. It was cast iron. I was teaching her how to drive one day, and she just tore it all up. We didn’t have any insurance. Nothing wrong with the car. [laughs] The other car was all torn up and the owner said, “You could go. [laughs] It was a light blue ’64 Starfire. I got that thing running. I carried it home, rose up the hood, and started checking stuff out—spark plugs, distributor, wires, battery. and it didn’t take much. I put some gas in it and fired it up. He just gave up on it, basically. I think about that now that I run an automotive repair shop and think, “It just needed a tune-up.” It cut off on him and he went and pushed it into the bushes. I was driving in junior high school. So when they took off walking, I rode a bicycle for a while, and then I started walking. It wasn’t a big deal. I would see them walking on the other side of the road. Thompson And you didn’t even offer them a ride? Hardy No [laughs]. I was doing good[sic]. I was satisfied. I drove all the way through high school and everything. I always had something to drive. My dad used to have an old Chevy pickup. I used to drive that. I fixed it up for him. I didn’t realize that God put that gift in me until later—until I accepted him and got saved. I was reading the Bible—about [King] Solomon. When he was building the [First] Temple, he was trying to figure out, “Who’s going to help me?” Then God told him, “This guy over here knows about bricks, this guy knows about wood, etc.” I got to thinking and realized, “You did that.” [laughs] I thought that I was going to be the mailman after I got out of the army. I had taken the post office’s<a title="">[3]</a> exam. scored big time. After I came from taking the test, they told me, “You’ve got three interviews already.” I said, “Shoot. I’m going to be the mailman.” I had had about three tickets in the past. I went to Macon and they said, “Oh, you had these a long time ago. Just clear your racket and you’re good. Take the test and everything.” I go to my first interview, and the guy said, “It looks good, but you have too many tickets.” I said, “What do you mean I have ‘too many tickets?’ I talked to these people at Macon and they told me that my driving record is good.” He said, “Man, I can’t use you. You’ve got too many tickets.” I said, “I know what I’m going to do. I’m going back down to Macon to straighten this out.” I went back down to Macon and got another ticket. [laughs] Now I’m sitting there in the car, and I’m saying to myself, “Lord, what do you want me to do?” He said, “Go home. Enroll in school.” I went home and went to the schoolhouse and enrolled in school and I started the very next day. That’s what he wanted me to do, and I signed up for automotive technology. They thought that I was the best thing since ice cream. I was just doing what I know, and they were like, “Nobody like you has ever come through here.” I kept saying, “Man, all these mechanics...” They said, “Look, no one like you has ever come through here.” I would get my grades and throw them on the table. When it came time to graduate, the instructor walked up to me and gave me these papers and said, “Fill these out.” I looked at the papers and they said, “National Honors Society.” I said, “You got the wrong person. Wait a minute now. National Honors Society means that I’m going to wear a white gown. You got the wrong person.” The guy said, “No. you haven’t seen your grade point average.” I said, “Well, what is it?” He said, “It’s 4.2.” I said, “4.2? How do you get 4.2?” I built a car, and that’s how I got 4.2. This young lady and I were in the class, and I guess we were neck-to-neck and it got to the end of the class, and I said, “I’ll know what I’ll do. I’ll just build a car. You know, I’ll just put the engine in, and the transmission and everything.” They said, “You ain’t going to be able to do that.” I looked them and said, “Y’all don’t know.” I built that car and I didn’t realize they were looking at me, because I would go to the end of the hall, where the car was, so I could work on it. But they were looking. Finally, I finished it and I stood there and looked at it. I put the key in and fired it up and it looked like everybody came out of the woodwork and it looked like everybody came out and started clapping and everything. I was like, Wow. [laughs] So I filled out the papers and was part of the National Honors Society. I was floored. I didn’t think that was me. As they finished with the National Honors Society, they said, “Now we’re going to name the Student of the Year.” And they’re going on about this guy and they’re just talking about how great he is and how good he is and I’m saying to myself, This guy must be—goodness, boy. This guy really did good[sic]. They just kept talking until they said, “The Student of the Year is Billy Hardy.” And I’m sitting there and they’re just clapping and hollering, and I’m sitting there, because it didn’t hit me yet. and somebody said to me, “They just called your name.” I looked around at the instructor and walked up to the podium and said, “Y’all said all that about me?” I was like, Wow. I’ve been doing it ever since he blessed me to open up a shop. I worked at the dealership and a couple of other shops and then he blessed me with my own shop. Thompson Were you in contact with him when he was in the service? Black No. It really was 50 years. It was 50 years last year since we saw each other. It’s been a year now. Hardy When I left, I left. I’d come home and ride in and ride out. Black I wouldn’t see him though. We still lived in the same places, but we didn’t contact each other. The separation was my doing. I did it because of what was going on in my home. He and I were so close that I knew what he knew. The separation was me not wanting to ruin him by telling him what was happening to me all those years. Thompson Okay. If you want to tell that. We have 14 minutes left. Black I’m the one that started to walk ahead. I would look over the corner to see if he had come out. If he hadn’t, I would shoot out so I would be ahead. That was because I decided not to tell him what was going on. He was quiet and I could just tell he wouldn’t have known what to do with that information. This had already been happening to me for six years at that point, and we had played together up until that point, so I had to make a decision. It wasn’t until all these years later that I could tell him why. Thompson You can tell that if you’d like to. Black I had been being molested every week by a family friend in my home or wherever he would drive me to. At one point, Billy and I were playing and he dared me not to do something to him. and I was always hitting on him and everything, because he’s always been a whole lot bigger than me and he dared me this time. He always let me have my way, but this time he was saying, “Oh, you better not do that.” I knew he was serious, but I also knew I was his girl and he was going to let me get away with it. so I did real quickly and I ran across to my yard and he came running after me. The guy that was molesting me was standing there and I ran into the house and as Billy was running to come up behind me, the man hit him. and when I looked back I realized the man was really fixed on me. Billy got up to come after me again, not knowing why this strong man that he didn’t know would punch him like that, and he punched him again. so I knew I had to leave him alone. I made the decision to walk ahead. Thompson Did he hurt him? Hardy He hit me pretty good. I was just a little fella. If I find him again—I don’t know. I remember clearly how he did that, and I couldn’t have done anything, because this guy was swinging some hammers. He knocked me down about three times and the only thing I could do was get up and go home, you know? Black I couldn’t look anymore. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know if to tell him that this is what the guy was doing. For me, I let Billy go. I didn’t want to mess him up or leave him thinking he had to save me or something, so I did that. The girls didn’t do that. I was the one that said, “Here comes Billy. Walk a little faster.” The girls didn’t even know why. It was very painful for both of us. At the age of six, he and I were playing make-believe, and the aunt that he was talking about saw us and called my mother. And at six years old, I got the beating of my life. It was my molester that went and caught me and brought me back, and my mother beat me with a leather belt. and when she stopped swinging me around, I got introduced to shame. The guy was standing there and he watched me get the beating, and from there, he began to touch me and became my friend. So I thought I was saving Billy at that time. We would still go to school, but we ignored the feelings we had for each other. We were in love at six years old. We went to the store on one of the lawnmowers that he hadn’t fixed yet. I have no idea where I learned any of that from. But for me, the separation was very difficult. because your friend doesn’t know what is going on and I just couldn’t tell him or anybody else. Thompson And for how long did that go on? Black For 11 years. I was 17. By the time. But by that time, our lives had gone in different directions. Thompson When did you go to the military? Hardy In ’76. After football season I said, “It’s time to go.” Black I never did try to contact him all these years. I wouldn’t ask his sisters or anybody where he was. I just always prayed to God that one day, I could see him again. and, lo and behold, that was last year. It was always in me, because the day after, he never asked me, “What happened to you?” We never asked each other that. I believe that if he had asked me that, it would have given me a chance to say. But since we didn’t—by the time we’re 12, I’m trying to protect him. I had determined, through all those years, that if my name ever came out of his mouth, I would go. It was 50 years later, and he was talking to a cousin, and he asked about me and she called me in New York and told me, “Billy was asking about you. He wants your number.” And I asked, “My Billy?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “Billy boy? My Billy boy?” And I started to cry and asked her, “’Tricia, is it my Billy boy?” And she kept saying, “Yes.” Even she knew what it was. She asked, “Do you want me to give him your number?” I said, “No. give me his.” It had been long enough. I called him immediately, and, probably to his annoyance, I called him every day since then [laughs]. My father owned a school bus, a big truck, and a car. The bus was to carry the people up North and the yard was always full. The backyard was where Daddy kept all his vehicles was actually right in his view. Hardy So I knew when they came from up North. When the trucks and the buses were out there, I knew she was back. We were like Forrest Gump and Jenny [laughs]. Thompson This was just wonderful and I’d love to do it again. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> George [Michael] Zimmerman. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Next to the Sanford Atlantic Bank. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> United States Postal Service (USPS). </div> </div> 10th Street 11th Street 1st Street 25th Street African Americans Army Bay Avenue Bigham, Patricia Ann Black Black, Patricia Ann car Celery Avenue Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play child molestation Clemens, Jimmy Columbus, Georgia Creative Sanford, Inc. Crooms Academy Crooms High School desegregation Eleventh Street First Street football Hardy, Bill Hopper Academy Howard, Pat integration Jacobson, Manuel Jacobson, Sarah Jones, Willie Lakeview Middle School Martin, Trayvon Benjamin Mellonville Avenue migrant worker miscegenation National Honor Society New York NHS North Rose Wolcott School Oldsmobile Starfire Operation Desert Storm oral history race relations Rexall Rochester, New York Roman-Toro, Freddie Sanford Sanford Avenue Sanford Junior High School Sanford Middle School school segregation Seminole High School sexual abuse taboo Tenth Street Thompson, Trish U.S. Route 17-92 veteran https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/610d0f71d9ae86ec910191da1dc0d791.pdf 4e8a3ae76d64c76c3f5fa1c259e465e1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Patrick Herman Alternative Title Oral History, Patrick Herman Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Memorials--Florida Gay culture--United States Description An oral history interview of Patrick Herman, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview was conducted by Sarah Schneider at Herman’s home in Orlando, Florida, on November 4th, 2016. Some of the topics covered include moving to Florida, joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, the Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses (GALA) Festival, the mass shooting at Pulse nightclub and its aftermath, the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to the Pulse tragedy, coping with the emotional repercussions of the tragedy, the community response to the Pulse tragedy, support from other gay choruses at the GALA festival, the significance of Latin night at Pulse, the long-term consequences of the Pulse tragedy, and gun control. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Moving to Florida 0:02:27 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus 0:05:02 Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses Festival 0:09:52 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub 0:14:13 Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy 0:23:43 Coping with emotional repercussions of Pulse tragedy 0:26:44 Community response to Pulse tragedy 0:30:02 Support from other gay choruses at GALA festival 0:34:39 Significance of Latin night at Pulse 0:36:56 Long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy 0:40:20 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Patrick Herman. Interview conducted by Sarah Schneider in Orlando, Florida, on November 4, 2016. Type Moving Image Source Herman, Patrick. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider, November 4, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 43-minute, and 53-second oral history: Herman, Patrick. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage GALA Choruses Festival, Denver Performing Arts Center, Denver, Colorado Orlando, Florida Camping World Stadium, Orlando, Florida Pulse nightclub, Orlando, Florida Creator Herman, Patrick Schneider, Sarah Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2016-11-04 Date Copyrighted 2016-11-04 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.26 GB Medium 43-minute and 53-second audio recording 18-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Patrick Herman and Sarah Schneider and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Transcript Schneider Today is Friday, November 14th, 2016. My name is Sarah Schneider and I am conducting an oral history interview with Patrick Herman of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted at the interviewee’s residence in Orlando, Florida. Thank you for being here and talking with us today. Herman Um, you’re welcome. Schneider Um, can you please state your name for us? Herman Um, um, my name is Patrick Herman. Um, and like you said, I—I, uh, sing for—with the, uh, Orlando Gay Chorus. And have been doing it for six years. And, um—and it’s just a really great experience. Uh, it’s probably one of the—yeah, I look forward to it every week. Just rehearsals and the shows. So, you know, it’s really all about singing I think mostly. It’s really why I joined. I think that’s why most people joined. So… Schneider And so can you tell us where you were born and how long you’ve lived in Orlando? Herman Oh, uh. Well, um, I go way back. I’m, you know—this year I’ll be 60. So, uh, I was born actually in, um [clears throat]—in Washington, D.C. You know? I was, uh, one of s—six children. You know? I have six si—siblings. But I was the third of the six. And—and we lived in, uh, you know, uh—in Washington, D.C. My dad was in the army. And so, uh, it was one of the many places we lived. Uh, because he was in the service, we traveled a lot. So—so before I, um—before I graduated from college, um, I had traveled, uh, to numerous places and lived in many states. So, um, how I ended up in Orlando was, um, that I did have family in Florida. And when I graduated from, uh, Penn State<a title="" href="#_ftn1">[1]</a>, um, you know, I decided I would live—you know, move to where I had family in Florida, which was, uh, uh, near Tampa. Which—New Port Richey. So, um—so—and then, um, it wasn’t—then I actually, uh—when I was there, I actually, uh, got a job and went back to school. And then got another degree. And ended up in, uh, Fort Lauderdale. And moved there for about twenty-some years. And then needed a change. So Orlando was the, you know—the ne—it was a—it had a job offer and I took it. So that was 12 years ago. Schneider And, um, how long have you been part of the Orlando Gay Chorus? Herman Um, well, I—I joined probably about six years ago. Um, you know, looking for something to do that I’ve done before. When I was in, uh, Fort Lauderdale, I was also in a chorus there, too. The Fort Lauderdale Gay Men’s Chorus. And, um—and I enjoyed that a lot. You know? Something about, you know, being a part of a group and—and, um, singing, which, you know, i—I think, uh, that, you know, just that experience alone is, uh, an amazing, great experience for anybody. You—and so when I moved here, you know, I—I, uh—I eventually looked up doing, uh, the chorus here as well. The only difference is—is this is a mixed chorus, where the one in Fort Lauderdale that I had experience with was, you know, an all-male chorus. So—but it’s been great. Just, uh, getting to know all the people. Schneider And can you tell us about one of your favorite—or some of your favorite productions or performances that you’ve done? Herman Oh, um. Well, they do two shows a year. And, um, the chorus does like a spring show and they also do a Christmas show. And—and, um, hmm. You know, it’s hard to say because usually it’s—usually you just, uh, like it just because of the music that you’re doing. You know? You start to find, you know, there’s a lot of songs that you really enjoy doing. So—when I first started doing it, I was—you know, I got a lot more involved and was actually, you know, in the front [inaudible] row of dancers, too. I said, “Well. Let me try that as well.” And, uh, so it was sort of funny because, um, they, um—the direct—the—let me think—the person that was, uh, in charge of the dance troupe, um—the one that, uh, did most of the choreography, uh, would tell me that basically, uh, you know, when you c—when you’re not as knowledgeable at dancing, they usually just put something in your hand and—and then—and so you’re—so I found myself with something in my hand a lot [laughs]. But otherwise, um—so I did that for a while, but then I realized that, um—that it was just taking up a lot of my time. So I went back to just, you know—just singing and not pf—you know, dancing or anything like that. But, um, yeah. There’s been a lot of good shows actually. Um, I can’t particularly say one was better than the other. But it’s really just the songs, you know, that I like. Schneider Um, and, uh, have you participated in the GALA<a title="" href="#_ftn2">[2]</a> events? Herman Oh, yeah. I’ve been in three of them. And, eh, from—if you’ve ever, uh, heard anybody talk about them, they’ll tell you that they’re really a life-changing experience. And—and, uh, when you go there, it—it’s—it’s like—it’s like a celebration. It’s really a festival. But—and it’s not a competition or anything like that. It’s really just like coming together with, uh, likeminded people that really enjoy, um, performing. And, um—but, um, one of the most amazing things that I’ve found being in the GALA is just the accolades that you get. I mean, you—you know, here we perform in maybe f—in front of like, uh, uh, a[sic] audience of maybe 800 people. Five to 800 people. There you have full[sic] house, um, of 2,500 people. And—and they give you standing ovations every song. And just—it—it’s just amazing. I mean you come out of, uh, the theater after a performance and you’re—and you’re met with r—you know, people lining up along the—you know, the hallways and the—and the passages out. Just applauding you all the way out. I—it—it—it’s—it’s quite unreal [laughs]. It’s—it’s—we have our own little world of, um—of people that just really appreciate what they do. You know? So—and when you’re really good, then y—y—you know, the accolades are amazing. I mean—but just full houses, you know, the whole time. And—and s—it’s like thousands of people. More than, uh, like whatever scene that they show here. You know? So—I can’t even describe it. It’s just great. You know? Just that whole experience. So [sighs] yeah. It’s always fun. I’ve done three and, um—over a period of time. And the last two have been in the same city. So that—that was fun ‘cause I got to go back and see, um, people that, you know—that I knew from that city as well. Schneider Mmhmm. And… Herman So… Schneider …do you—are you comfortable sharing what city that was in? Herman Um, well, with—the last, um, two GALAs have been in Colorado. Denver, Colorado. And, um, so tha—I just happened to have been dating somebody that—long distance that w—w—his hometown was in Denver. So I spent a lot of time in Denver seeing him. A—and so like half and half doing the show and half’s, you know, seeing my friend. So it was kind of nice. Schneider And where was the other, um… Herman Oh… Schneider …[inaudible] at? Herman …the other one was, um—it was when I was with, uh, uh, the Fort Lauderdale [Gay Men’s] Chorus. Um, that was in Tampa[, Florida]. And that was my first. And—and so that’s when I first got the taste of like having, um, you know, those accolades and the—and the large crowds of people that, you know—that fill theaters. So it’s just—I mean I—I think that was the amazing thing is—I mean is, you know, you’re with a group of talented people here in Orlando. But can you imagine being in—in a place where the talent just comes from all over the world? I mean d—y—you—you see—uh, I—I get, you know—the one thing I find that—that’s so amazing is that, you know, it’s a—it’s a whole bunch of people from all walks of life. You have men, women. You have s—you have all, um, you know, uh, genders. And, um, you have colors of, you know, all races and colors. And—and—and we’re all—we all get along. And we all just, you know—just build on—I mean, um, the world could really learn from, you know—if everybody could just be a chorus, that would be amazing. You know? So when you—when you see that and you see that—that old, young, men, women, all, you know—a—all just come together. Just—just without—it’s like a—a peaceful time. And, I mean, I—I—that’s I think why it’s so amazing. You know? And that’s why I—I even like the chorus here. And just doing the chorus here. You know? It’s a group of people that comes with many different religions and all kinds of different backgrounds. But we, you know—we really enjoy just doing this whole performance for—for the people that we like and love in our families. So, uh, i—that’s the experience that you really get from it I think. Schneider Um, and so I’d like to talk about Pulse and, uh… Herman Okay. Schneider …I was wondering, um, how you first heard about Pul—the Pulse shooting. Herman Um, I was, um—you know, let me think about that one because, uh—what was I doing? I have—I think what it was is, um, I—I woke up and, you know—you know how people—you get on Facebook. That’s kind of the first thing you do. Or you—y—you know, you—and—and that’s where you start seeing what’s—has happened in the last day or so. You know? I think that, you know, our social media is really like just y—you can just find out things that are happening in like d—not—you know, immediately. And so we live in a culture now where we have the technology to just hear about something that happened like the night before. Uh, and so I think—think that’s where I was. I think I was just like looking through Facebook and—and I saw that there had been some—something that hap—had happened. And, um, you know, so, uh—I just—I’m trying to remember like, you know, exactly what—what it was. I think it was pretty much Facebook if I recall. You know? Or my friend. My one friend that usually calls me or something if I haven’t gotten on Facebook and maybe told me or something. I don’t exactly remember. Schneider And do you remember what your reaction was or what your thoughts were when you first heard? Herman Um, well, you know, I think that a—at that time, when—when the news was coming out, we weren’t quite sure, like, you know, the extent of, like, what had happened. Everybody was kind of like, you know, just, um, uh—just—just l—um, how would you put it? Um, just in the dark about, like, you know, uh, how many people wha—w—you know? What was involved. Who was in there. All we knew that what it was—was a shooting. We didn’t know, like, who it was. You know? I think at that point in time I think I didn’t n—stop looking at the news. And—and just watched the whole time. I also have a roommate who’s younger. He’s about twenty-some years old. And i—and just to see him go through that. You know? That—because he’s a, you know—he—he would be someone that would have gone to the Pulse. Um, I stopped really going out to clubs a long time ago. They—so this was pretty much a young person club. And so, um, he knew more people. He was more connected. And so I kind of lived like a little bit vicariously through his experience and what was going on. And, uh—and really just, um, you know, uh, uh—like I said, I wasn’t—I didn’t know people in the club, but I knew people that knew people. And—and in a small town like this, you kind of know—everybody’s kind of connected. So you kind of feel for even your friends. You know? I mean we all had kind of a story to tell about like, um, who we knew and how—what they were going through pretty much. Schneider Um, and so you mentioned you watched the news. Was there anything else in particular you did on that Sunday? Um, do you remember what—what you did the rest of the day? Herman Mm. N—no. I don’t even recall. I just know that we were just—you know, just trying to find out, you know, um, like, you know, if—how many people were—were sur—you know, were—were hurt. And if there—how many survivors there were. And—and you really found yourself just getting totally involved in finding out. Like, I mean, I think I—I watched every news story that came out. And—and saw all the, um, you know, the—th—the interviews of the people talking about what they were going through. So I think that we were all kind of like just doing that at that point in time. Um, the [Orlando Gay] Chorus hadn’t really gotten involved in anything yet. But the—so we, you know—when we would go to rehearsals like the following Wednesday or something like that, then we, you know—then things would—we’d, you know—people would tell their stories of like who and what they, you know—they knew. But, um, I don’t actually recall anything more than just looking and—and getting so involved with like every detail of like what was happening. You know? So… Schneider So can you talk a little bit about the, um—the [Orlando Gay] Chorus’s response to the shooting and what sort of happened with the Orlando Gay Chorus in the days and in the weeks following? Herman Well, I mean, for me i—i—i—it seemed like, um, we were all—the chorus was kind of taking a new direction. You know? I mean, it had always been a chorus that did outreaches, I mean, you know, to the community at large. I mean we’ve always done that. We—you know? We’ve always performed at—at certain places. Like, um, you know, there’s an elderly care facility that we’ve performed at. And we’ve done [Come Out With] Pride [Orlando] events and those kind of things. And—and we’ve done—and we’ve kind of geared ourselves towards—like just doing the national anthem. You know? We—when someone needed that in—i—you know, in their group or something. Um, the outreaches hadn’t been, you know—I mean, you know, we—now that we have a new director, we—we’re starting to—and we had some other people that really get totally involved in outreaches. So, um—so the outreaches before the Pulse were just, you know—basically just, you know, like, “Yeah. We’ll do a—we’ll do your wedding ceremony or something like that. Or we’ll—we’ll do a song for, you know—for, uh—for the, uh—like if you want the—the, you know—the, um, national anthem or something. But then after Pulse, um, we f—we found that the—they’re—they start to do, uh, vigils. You know? And, um, I think that that’s what—and—and I hadn’t gone to any of the—the first ones. Mostly because they were kind of telling us, you know, that, um—that, uh, c—they—the city was sort of waiting for—for a time when they could have an organized one where they could have like, um, security there. And they were kind of concerned about, uh, you know, the s—community in general. And putting guys—you know, doing something like this, um, that wasn’t like an official thing that they could s—you know, make sure that they had the manpower. ‘Cause they—I think, uh, at this point they were sort of stressed out that the—the police department, you know—trying to, you know, look into, you know, what was happening with the, um—what—with the shooting. And if there was, uh, you know, anything else. Th—so they couldn’t guarantee the safety of—of ‘em. But the—what ended up happening was the first vigil that was, um—was announced, um, ended up to[sic] become, uh, a huge one. And I—I kind of stayed away from ‘em because we were all kind of concerned like that, you know, that—you know, that they wouldn’t have the, uh, you know—the, uh, security in place. So—so I didn’t really get involved with the first or[sic] one. But then, um—but when they did decide to have an official one, then—then I did that one. But, um—but the first one, you know, I—I watched from, you know, the—the videos afterwards. And it became like the—the—the one that they did at Dr. Phillips [Center for the Performing Arts] became—that became the—sort of the—the—the one that was representing our city all around the world. Um, you know, uh, um, after that, then i—you know, uh, they—they started doing the memorial services and stuff, too. It wasn’t that long after, you know, that. And that’s when, um, we started to go and—and do these like small things at, um—for some of the people that were in there. Uh, I, uh—I was—I was feeling kind of, I mean, that—the whole thing about doing a memorial service is—is sort of—you feel almost displaced. Like i—it’s a surreal feeling, you know, that—you know, that—and—and you’re not quite sure—I mean, ‘cause, you know, a chorus is really a—a group that’s there to entertain. We were never, you know—we—that—to take on the role of—of being, uh, um, somebody that, uh, sh—that is comforting the community was certainly something I wasn’t really prepared for. So it—so after a while, um, it—I found that it’s—it—that, um, it was kind of, um—it started to wear—weigh on me a little bit I think. Um, and—and the whole, you know, I mean, and—and I don’t know. I just think that you’ve—you’ve found—I found myself, um—and I didn’t—I—like I—that I couldn’t find someone that I could communicate with on what was happening to me. You know? When we—you know, h—i—i—it—it sort of—you start to feel kind of a guilt or something. Um, that—the reason I say that is because, um, you know, p—before the Pulse, you know, we—we were a small group that, you know, struggled to be known in the community. And then, uh—and then a lot of, uh, organizations started asking us to come to do something for them. You know? Um, and not necessarily of—of—of—of a vigil or—or memorial. But just something representing, you know, the LGB[T] community. And one of the—and that’s when, um, we got one of the most amazing, um, uh, events that, you know, I thought I ever like really sang at—was, you know—I mean there—there are two that, eh, you—you did ment—you did ask me what, you know, there—if there were a couple things that stand out, um, um, uh, being in the chorus. And the one, and this is—this i—was before the Pulse—was that the Dr. Phillips Center [for the Performing Arts] had asked us at—to perform songs for them. And it was a concert called “A Salute to the American Flag”. And to me, that was just—at that—that—that’s up there with the GALA Choruses. I mean, you know, to be—to represent, um, the—to be a part of the Dr. Phillips, um—I mean, uh, the, uh, Orlando Philharmonic [Orchestra], um—those are the ones that asked us to—to be part of this, uh, “Salute to the American Flag”. So we did this concert at the Bob Carr [Theater]. And, uh—and we had like over like a hundred peop—of our chorus members there. And—and a—at—you know, what was really cool was after the reviews came out for this show, they—they actually said that we were like just an amazing group. I mean this was the reviews from the Sun [Orlando?] Sentinel saying that we sounded amazing. And they even thought that the—that the—the Orlando Philharmonic didn’t have the quality that—that they could’ve had. I think they criticized the way the director did some of the songs. But, you know—but our part was like amazing. So that was the one, uh, that, eh—show that just really stood out for me. I mean just… And then, um—and the other performance was because of the Pulse and what had happened. And it was, um, that we got to sing halftime for the [Orlando City Soccer Club] soccer game. And so there was like—there’s 36,000 people, you know, at halftime listening to a couple songs we did. And we did this one beautiful rendition of, um—of, uh, Cyndi Lauper’s<a title="" href="#_ftn3">[3]</a> color—you know, “True Colors” song. Um, so I—I—I have to say, you know, I’m 60 years old and it’s take—it just—I, you know—that alone stands out as the most ama—one of the most amazing things that anybody that’s like gay could ever imagine is to be out and open in—in a na—on a national level. And just being able to—to be who you are and—and have just all these people just accepting you. And so after that—after I had done that—you know, right after we did that halftime show, you know, I—a—and then even just like s—standing there and having some beers and watching the game, it was just totally the most fun. But I got[sic] to tell you, I felt so—so guilty. And I couldn’t even explain why. It’s just, you know, here’s some—something that happened that—where—where some people lost their lives. And it took that much to—I mean just—I mean I shouldn’t, you know, i—i—can you imagine just the f—the guilt you feel? To have something so amazing, but the lo—but at the price of losing, uh, all these people. And so [laughs], um, when that happened, I—you know, there wasn’t anybody I could reach out to. I mean I had a friend that really—you know, one of my best friends, like I couldn’t get him to understand, you know, why, you know, I was feeling this way. And, you know, like when you have something like that happen and you can’t really have [sniffs]—and you don’t have anybody to talk to. So—so I called my friend [laughs]. I have a good friend in the area that—and like I said, you know, a—and I told her what happened. You know? That a—all this. You know? Tha—these amazing things that happened. But y—you know I—‘cause you know if you grow up 60 years, you never what di—e—experience—you’re always like in the shadows. You never tell people like what your life is like. You know? This—this is what it’s been for s—you know, all my life. And—and so when you’re in groups like this, like the chorus or anything then—and you’re like at festivals, you kind of have these great experiences. But I never would have thought that, you know—that, you know, been a—been able to sing at like the soccer games or stuff like that. That, you know—I mean that was so… So I asked my friend, Marian[sp]—so Marian[sp], Joe[?] and—came over. And that’s when we went over to one of the, um, candlelight vigils that—that they were holding downtown at the Pulse. And so it was nice to have my friends with me to—to just kind of get me through that—that part of the guilt I think. You know? I mean that’s—that’s kind of what it’s been like. But then that’s a long time ago, so I’ve kind of recovered [laughs]. So kind of like that. Anyway [sighs]. Schneider And, um [sniffs], what have your thoughts been about—these are here if you want them—um, what have your thoughts been about the r—reactions of, um, the community to—to what’s happened? Herman Oh, I th—I think that the community in general has been incredible. I, um—not only the community, but the whole world. I mean, you knew, uh, th—um, when we were at the last GALA [Choruses Festival], um, it was really one of those GALAs that, um, was after the Pulse. So—so we were—they were kind of telling us i—in, you know—at the rehearsals that don’t—“Be prepared because, you know, you’re going to get a lot of, uh, uh, you know—y—you—the response you’re going to get at GALA is going to be different than what you’re used to s—being.” And so when you come f—from a community, you know, that—where something like this has happened, you know, um—like say for example, what happened in Paris<a title="" href="#_ftn4">[4]</a>. You know? That sort of thing. You know? The—the world seems to really have come together. I mean and it—when we—what happened in Paris seems to be what was happening to us now. You know? The—the shooting at the nightclub. And then, you know, now—and then what—what we had to experience. You know? You, um—so like the chorus was kind of saying, “When you go to the GALA, you know, just be prepared that, you know—that, um, they—people—the community around you—and—and not only Orlando, but, you know, just every c—every community, um, is going to respond in some manner.” I mean we—you know, on Facebook alone, you know, tha—there were so many re—positive responses from all over the world, you know, that, um—and we were still getting them even now. You know? I mean there are choruses that are—that are sending us, you know, like—like they’re—they’re having fundraisers and—and sending us, you know, um, uh, funds to help our chorus here. You know? Th—through the next show and all of that. But—and it’s—i—it’s all really re—as a result of the Pulse. I mean it’s just, you know, um, the—everything. The mayor’s [John Hugh “Buddy” Dyer] been great. And, you know, it’s just been just a—a—a—a real, uh, unity that’s—has happened, um, for—for us. And—and so I—I think the chorus is—us—a little part of that, too. You know? I think that we’re just kind of like a—a—a group that, you know,—that, um—that everybody’s kind of, uh, uh—how would I put it? Sharing their experiences with or something, which is kind of an outlet. You know? Kind of an outlet for them I suppose. I don’t know. But, uh. Yeah. Schneider Was it—was there anything else specific you noticed in the reaction of other people—other choruses at the GALA event? Herman Oh, yeah. I mean when—when we did go to the GALA, uh, they—it—it was, um—it was, uh—it was like a—when you’d go and see like a sho—y—we’d be part of a show, w—we were part of the, uh—the opening ceremonies show, where we kind of just, uh, came up onstage and sang like maybe the last song of—of a—of a—of a song that we were doing with, uh, you know, i—with the other groups. Um, we ended up getting these amazing standing ovation[sic], you know, that just lasted for th—the longest of times. I mean it was, uh, a—a—and when the director started t—talking about, you know, um, the events that occurred up until the time, you know, the—the—all the vigils that we were doing and the memorial services i—i—you know, it was, uh—everybody just kind of stood up. You know? And then—and then, as even if we would walk through like the, eh—I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Colorado. The—there’s a m—a pedestrian mall, where all the theaters are on one side and there’s like, um—there’s a couple theaters on the other side. But—and then there’s like kind of a parking garage that’s—has some floors on it. Well, the—the—the Cor—the Colorado choruses had all got[sic] together and they just m—um, um, they sang a song, um, and—of, uh—and—and I’m trying to remember. I think it was “America the Beautiful” actually. And they—and then they draped, you know, banners over the—the, um—the, uh, railings that showed that they were su—you know, in support of—of what had happened in Orlando. So they—they had their America—“Orlando Strong” banners hanging as they sang this “American the Beautiful” song. I mean, you know, there’s one thing about songs, it just brings everybody like together. It’s just—it’s just a moving experience. So that—that was just one of the many things. And any—everywhere you went, you know, there was always—because we wore like little banners that said we were from Orlando. So everywhere you went like we—all throughout the event, you know, you’d get—you’d get just hugs and, you know—that they were think[sic] of you—think of you. And—and, you know, just—just well-wishes. You know? I [sighs]—yeah. It was k—quite an experience I have to say. But, um, yeah. It’s hard to kind of go on with it, you know? I don’t know if anything like that happens, you’re like—you know, you want your life to go on. You wanted things to—to be settled and to go. But, um—but we s—we still, you know, w—I think we—we’ve changes as a group now. And we’re kind of a group that’s out there for people if they need something. You know? We’re—we’re not just like—we’re—we’ve become like sort of a support group for other groups in town or something. You know? It’s hard to explain. Um, you know? So—and I don’t want to bring up politics, but they—they have a—they did ask a lot of us to, um, you know—if this is not a—an official outreach for the chorus, but they did ask a lot of us if they—if we wanted to sing for the, uh, president and—when he comes to town on Sunday. So there’s gonna be a bunch of us over there s—s—singing the national anthem. Not me. I didn’t get that email in time [laughs]. But, you know, I’m kind of so happy for my, you know—that my friends that are—had an opportunity to be part of the, uh, election, um, thing that’s happening. So if you get a chance, go over to—to Kissimmee[, Florida] and think the president’s gonna be there.<a title="" href="#_ftn5">[5]</a> And we’re gonna be singing the national anthem. I mean the, you know—some singers that I know. Not official. Um, oh gee. See, it’s just—just a volunteer thing. So—so that’s kind of exciting for them. Schneider Um, do you have any thoughts about what Pulse as a place means to you? I don’t, um, know if it had any significance for you before or… Herman Well… Schneider …does it now? Herman …that’s a good question. What Pulse, um—what Pulse, uh, mean to me—I mean I—you know I had—I—I had been there before. I mean probably w—like, uh, 10 years ago. I probably went there a few times. You know? And, um, it—it was really, uh, just a—a place to, you know, socialize. Um, you know, uh, the night that—of the tragedy though, I—ey—they, uh—I had heard that it was like Hispanic night, which meant that they would have been doing some like cool dancing. ‘Cause I don’t know if you’ve ever been to like, uh, a place where, uh—where h—you know, they, uh—you know, it’s a kind of Spanish—Spanish—Hispanic music thing. They dance a lot differently than, uh—than regular disco clubs or whatever. ‘Cause, I mean, I—I used to go to the places in Miami. You know? And, I mean, they’re—they—they do salsas and, um, you know—I—I don’t know all the—all the ty—types of dances that they do. But it’s—it’s quite fun. You know? Because it’s—it’s—it’s like couple dancing in a way that, you know—that’s more, you know, where you touch each other as opposed to just, uh, disco music, where you don’t. So that—I could imagine it would’ve been fun. And if I—actually, to tell you the truth, if I had known that it was like, uh, Hispanic night, I probably would’ve gone just for the dancing. If—if I could find someone to go with, you know, at the time. But—but, uh, no. I—it—for a long time, it hadn’t been any place I would have gone because it’s just, um—there was just a younger crowd. You know? So—though, I mean, I—I’m sure there were people my age there [laughs]. I’m just not a club person these days. So—but I’m—yeah [laughs]. Schneider Um, so do you have any thoughts about what you might see as the long-term consequences of the Pulse shooting for—for this community or maybe even broader to the country? Herman Well, like always—I always hope that, you know, these kind of things can make differences when it comes to like, you know, um, gun control. That sort of thing. That’s really where I hope it goes more than anything. I mean—I mean we just—you know, as a s—as a country, we—I think we, you know—I mean there’s a lot of—you know, being an election year, too, which, uh, makes a big difference—but, um, i—i—i—you know, i—i—there’s all[sic] so much argument[sic] about like h—how and—how we use guns. And—and w—why they go into the wrong hands. And—and, you know, what can we do about it? You know? And I—and I know there—that—that, um—that there’s a lot of disagreement on, you know, like how—how guns should be handled. You know? And—and especially assault rifles. I mean—I mean just that—just i—you know, i—anybody that’s read what happened at the Pulse with—with—with these people that use these assault rifles—I mean these are very destructive. I mean they—they—the, uh, early responders didn’t even know like if they could even get into the building. They didn’t even know how many people were actually in the building. You know? The amount of gunfire that goes off like during that time is incredible. And it—and not only that, but those guns are very destructive. And so, you know, when you’re shot with like a—a—an assault rifle, you’re—you have damage to you—to your body. More so than just, you know—just a gun that just, you know, shoots like a little—little—li—s—ho—you know, handgun. A—and it just doesn’t make any sense why—why our country, you know, w—what this love affair is with these assault rifles. And—and I know for a fact that—that, you know, there was a law not long ago that—tha—that kind of, eh, kept these kind of guns out of, uh—out of people’s hands. But then, I—I guess, you know, like all—eh, some laws, they—they—they just have a certain period of time. And then they—they, you know, become null and void or something. You know? So I—I’m just hoping that—that, you know, we can as a society adhere—can just find ways—you know, you can get guns on the internet. You can get guns at gun shows. And you don’t even need to have a background search. I mean that’s what I’m kind of hoping. You know? It’s—it’s really about that. You know? Um, you know, if you’ve read anything about the sh—the guy that—that was in the shooting, you know that he was somebody that just had like really issues. You know? Like more mental issues. So, um, I don’t know. I mean I just—that’s what I would like to see really. Schneider Um, so do you have any other reflections about the Pulse shooting or your experience as a member of the [Orlando] Gay Chorus that we haven’t talked about or haven’t covered? Herman Um, gosh. We talk—covered quite a lot. Haven’t we [laughs]? Uh, w—well, um, like I said, um, you know, uh, the Pulse was—was really a tr—a—a tragedy. And though I didn’t really know anybody like, um, personally, I did know people who did know people. Um, and I just—you know, I just feel s—sorry for any community that ever would have to go through something like this. You know? Um, and the—th—and the reality is—is—is that, you know, un—until the world changes, you know, we’re gonna have this sort of thing. It’s gonna come and it’s gonna happen occasionally. You know? Like different places around the world. I mean this—this is nothing compared to what’s happening overseas. So—but, uh—but—so that’s why it’s kind of nice to have like the chorus to have, you know—to put some positive part into your life. And so that’s kind of, you know—I’m looking forward to the show. Come—it’s—it’s on December 10th[, 2016]. Um, a little—a little, uh, fu—uh, you know, uh, a little, uh, sales pitch there [laughs]. So yeah. So we’re really just—you know, what I think what it is is I think we’re all just getting back to our lives now. You know? And so that’s, um—you know, it’s been a quite—quite a few months since it’s happened. And—and, um, so it’s nice to just kind of give back and, you know, look forward to—to being a part of that group again. And doing s—something that’s more entertaining and fun and, uh—and positive. So I think that’s really a part of it—i—is that re—you know, you had the tragedies—tragedies, but you also have a lot of things to look forward to. So I’m really looking forward to it. That—that sort of thing. So… Schneider Alright. Is there anything else you wanted to share? Herman Um, no. I think that’s pretty [laughs]… Schneider [laughs]. Herman …mu—much it. Yeah. It’s quite a[sic] ordeal [laughs]. Schneider [laughs]. Herman Um, no. You know? It’s just this. I think, you know, like, um, yeah. I guess the one thing that I would like to say about, um, the chorus is i—it does, uh, benefit people that like, you know—you know, that we come together a lot. That I’m certainly gul—you know, happy that—that I have something that—you know, that—that is very community-oriented. I think that’s really the, uh—one of the things that I really enjoy about it—is that it—is, uh—is that it puts me back into the community. Something that, you know—that—when you’re working every day and you—and y—all your life is pretty much just work and—a—that’s nice to have that outlet. Yeah. So. An—an—an—and I’ve done—an—I’ve had a lot of nice experiences. So—but… Schneider Great. Well—well, thank you so much. Thanks for talking with us. We really appreciate it. Herman Thank you. Thanks. <div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref1">[1]</a> Pennsylvania State University </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref2">[2]</a> Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref3">[3]</a> Cynthia Ann Stephanie Lauper </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref4">[4]</a> November 2015 Paris attacks </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref5">[5]</a> President Barack Obama visited Osceola County Stadium in Kissimmee, Florida, on November 6, 2016, in support of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton’s final push to win Florida. </div> </div> 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting A Salute to the American Flag America the Beautiful assault rifles Bob Carr Theater Come Out With Pride Orlando Cyndi Lauper Cynthia Ann Stephanie Lauper Denver Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts Facebook Fort Lauderdale Fort Lauderdale Gay Men’s Chorus fundraisers GALA Choruses Festival Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses GLBT gun control gun regulation gun violence hate crimes homosexuality John Hugh “Buddy” Dyer Kissimmee Latin dancing LGBT LGBTIQ LGBTQ mass shootings Miami New Port Richey November 2015 Paris attacks orlando Orlando City Soccer Club Orlando Gay Chorus Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Orlando Strong Orlando United outreach events Patrick Herman Pennsylvania State University Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes Sarah Schneider terrorist attacks True Colors vigils Washington, D.C. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/ebc980fc9d13db0bcd5793015f93ddb6.pdf c89536571af9b880da1eb9b33521d283 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title LGBTQ+ Collection Is Part Of LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES Program Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Patty Sheehan Alternative Title Oral History, Patty Sheehan Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Memorials--Florida Gay liberation movement Gay rights Municipal government--United States Description An oral history interview of Patty Sheehan, Orlando’s first openly gay city commissioner. The interview was conducted by Kalynn Smith at Sheehan’s offices at Orlando City Hall in Orlando, Florida, on April 11th, 2017. Some of the topics covered include an introduction, how the challenges of growing up gay shaped her activism, how coming out affected her familial relationships and career, identifying items in her collection, Michael’s March and bringing together the gay and lesbian communities over HIV/AIDS, the stigma of HIV/AIDS and how shame kills, facing discrimination while running for office, civil rights activism as city commissioner, becoming an advocate for marriage equality, and her favorite accomplishments as City Commissioner. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:52 How challenges of growing up gay shaped activism 0:06:05 How coming out affected familial relationships and career 0:12:49 Identifying items in collection 0:15:25 Michael’s March and bringing together the gay and lesbian communities over HIV/AIDS 0:23:38 The stigma of HIV/AIDS and how shame kills 0:28:51 Facing discrimination while running for office 0:33:22 Civil rights activism as city commissioner 0:37:22 Becoming an advocate for marriage equality 0:44:14 Favorite accomplishments as City Commissioner Abstract Oral history interview of Patty Sheehan. Interview conducted by Kalynn Smith in Orlando, Florida, on April 11, 2017. Type Moving Image Source Sheehan, Patty. Interviewed by Kalynn Smith, April 11, 2017. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/207" target="_blank">LGBTQ+ Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 53-minute, and 1-second oral history: Sheehan, Patty. Interviewed by Kalynn Smith. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Audubon Park Covenant Church, Orlando, Florida Greenwood Cemetery Lake Eola Park Orlando Pulse nightclub Creator Sheehan, Patty Smith, Kalynn Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2017-04-11 Date Copyrighted 2017-04-11 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 342 MB Medium 53-minute, and 1-second audio recording 25-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Humanities Teacher Provenance Originally created by Patty Sheehan and Kalynn Smith and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Manes, Billy. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2015/10/22/five-for-fighting-orlando-city-commissioner-patty-sheehan-isnt-going-anywhere/" target="_blank">Five for fighting: Orlando City Commissioner Patty Sheehan isn't going anywhere</a>." Watermark, October 22, 2015. Accessed May 17, 2017. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2015/10/22/five-for-fighting-orlando-city-commissioner-patty-sheehan-isnt-going-anywhere/. Pilkington, Ed. "<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/17/orlandos-first-out-gay-elected-official-weve-been-dealing-with-hatred-forever" target="_blank">Orlando's first out gay elected official: 'We've been dealing with hatred forever'</a>. The Guardian, June 17, 2016. Accessed May 17, 2017. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/17/orlandos-first-out-gay-elected-official-weve-been-dealing-with-hatred-forever. Transcript Smith S—you good? Cravero Mmhmm. Smith Alright. I am, uh, Kalynn Smith, a UCF<a title="" href="#_ftn1">[1]</a> undergraduate. I am interning for the GLBT<a title="" href="#_ftn2">[2]</a> History Museum of Central Florida. With me is Geoffrey Cravero. Um, we are conducting an oral history with Orlando City Commissioner Patty Sheehan in her offices, uh, in, um, [smacking sound] Orlando, Florida, on April 11th, 2017. Uh, Commissioner Sheehan, thank you… Sheehan Thank you. Smith …for agreeing to speak with us today. Sheehan Sure. Smith Um, I am currently working on processing your collection… Sheehan Mmhmm. Smith …with the GLBT Museum. Sheehan There’s a collection? Smith And… Sheehan [laughs]. Smith Yes [laughs]. Sheehan I didn’t realize that. Okay. Smith Yeah. It’s, uh, mostly artifacts… Sheehan Okay. Smith …and, um, a couple like journal entries. And, um, a few things like that. Sheehan Mmhmm. Smith And we just had a few questions regarding, um, uh, specific artifacts and… Sheehan Okay. Sure. Smith …some personal biography. Sheehan Alrighty. Absolutely. Smith So, um, first, if we could start off by, um, having you state your name and tell us a little bit about where you’re from. Sheehan Sure. I’m Commissioner Patty Sheehan of—I’m in Orlando, Florida. I’ve been in office since 2000. So I’ve been doing this for 17 years. Um, and I’m well-known for my advocacy of pedestrian safety, walkable neighborhoods, um, Main Street districts, which are blowing up and very exciting around Orlando, and pedestrian safety, which I got death threats for my first couple of years in office. And ended up being one the hardest things I’ve ever done. Putting sidewalks within a mile of ele—every elementary school. So people think that sometimes issues like LGBTQ<a title="" href="#_ftn3">[3]</a> can be difficult. You’d be surprised what things people will threaten you on and everything like that. So it’s not always easy being an elected official [laughs]. Smith [smacking sound] Um, what was the atmosphere like regarding LGBTQ issues when you were growing up? Sheehan Oh, gosh. I mean I was raised Catholic. So, you know, this was something that was worse than being a murderer. So I really hid who I was. I struggled very much with it. I had a really hard time. There were times I was suicidal. And I wanted to end it all because I just couldn’t accept who I was. Um, I had a very difficult time. I’ve—I’ve given a story to, um—to, you know, the folks that talk about—about suicide among young LGBTQ people because I think it’s really important. The, uh, It Gets Better Project. Because I think it’s important for young people to realize that they may struggle. I struggled. Um, and it, you know—just because it’s—maybe it’s somewhat easier now to come out and be who you are, we still have a long way to go. Um, there’s still children being bullied in school. There are still children who are not being accepted for who they are in terms of transgender issues. People can still be fired from their jobs for who they are. So, you know, I get some blowback for those folks who say, “Patty, why can’t you just be quiet? Why can’t you just blend in? Why can’t you just—why can’t we just have unity?” Well, that’s usually what’s said by the dominant culture when they want to put you down. “Oh. Well, Black Lives Matter and the LGBTQ community and all these people are making it difficult for us.” No. You’ve actually made it difficult for us. And we’re just trying to live and be who we are. And it’s re—something that’s really, really, um, offensive to me and—is this notion somehow that we have to bury who we are. “Oh. Ya’ll have the right to marriage. Why can’t you just be quiet?” Um, you know, there’s always been this desire to keep the LGBTQ people in the closet. And I find that very offensive. Uh, I was talking to, eh—years and years ago, I was talking to, um, uh, an African-American activist. And she says, “Well, you know, you’re difference is—is different from mine because you can hide yours.” And I asked her, “If you could hide your difference, would you? Would you hide your skin color if you could?” And she looked at me. And it was an “aha moment” for her. And I can’t even believe—I don’t even know where that came from out of me. ‘Cause I’m not even—I’m not—I don’t think—I don’t consider myself that eloquent. But Pat—then people that—“why don’t you just hide who you are?” Well, you know what? When you’re work—when you’re at work with people and they all talk about where they went on—you know, on vacation or on—what they did on the weekend, you know it—it’s[sic] puts you in a very difficult situation. When I was a younger woman, I was, you know, attractive woman. “Where’s your boyfriend?” Where—you know, there is—there is—people don’t understand because they’re straight that these are things that they take for granted. And these are things that we can’t—couldn’t talk about back then. So I think there’s still a long way to go. I’m—I’ve been very, um, vocal since the Pulse tragedy, uh, that this happened to the LGBTQ community. And even our allies—some of our allies have gone back on me and said, “Why can’t you just be nice? Why can’t you just be unified?” And I’m like, “You can’t erase us. Yes. There were straight people that died at Pulse, too. But that doesn’t mean that we have to erase who we are to make it okay. Um, they were—they were targeted because they were young, they were gay and they were Latin—you know, QLatinx. They were people of color. And they were straight allies. And there—we shouldn’t have to erase who they were in order to make it okay for everybody else. Because we do have to take, as a culture, responsibility for how we te—how we treat LGBTQ people.” In our churches—one of the most amazing things that happened to me after Pulse happened, um—after we’re dealing with all the issues of the tragedy, I had come here to City Hall and Mayor [Teresa] Jacobs’s office called me. And I went running over there. And she—and it was a—it was a group of clergy. And they were having a press conference. And they were talking about, “We do not agree with the Baptist Church. [inaudible] wanna say their name. That’s coming here to demonstrate at the funerals of these victims.” They had never dealt with that. I’ve been dealing with that for, you know, 30 plus years. I understand what it’s like to deal with hateful people that carry signs that say, “God hates fags.” This was their first time of dealing with it. And our religious leaders came out and said, “This is not who we are.” I could not have been more proud. And felt so amazing during that time. That’s unity. Not telling me to shut up about who I am [sighs]. Smith Um, how were or are your familial relationships affected by your coming out? Sheehan [laughs]. When I first came out, I was 21. And like I said, I really, really struggled. And it wasn’t a matter of my parents supporting me. I had moved out at 17 because I was different and there were issues that I couldn’t deal with my parents. And, uh, so I basically started—I mean I started taking care of myself at 17. And so it wasn’t any reason for me to, you know—to—to hide who I was. Other than the fact that, um—I mean I—I wanted to have a relationship with my family. And I thought that that was gonna be part of it. And it—it got to be more and more pressure for me because my sisters were old enough to go out. And I said, “Oh. I was at Park Avenue Club or I was at this club over the weekend.” And they’re like, “Well, we didn’t see you. We were there.” And the lying just got to take such a toll on me. And at 21, I finally came out. And [laughs] my mother’s Italian and Catholic. She said to me, “Well, we’re a family and we’re gonna stick together. But you have to understand you’ve chosen a very difficult lifestyle. And—and you can’t be a teacher now. You realize that.” ‘Cause I had wanted to be an art teacher. She goes, “You—you—you’ll be a bad influence to children.” I was like, Wow. You know? Although, the weird thing was I did change to—to journalism. Um, and I went back to art eventually. Um, but I accepted that. And s—ashamed to s—I’m not ashamed. I mean that was a pressure that was put on me. And I accepted that. And I—and I hope that young people now realize they don’t have to accept that. You’re not a bad influence because you’re LGBTQ. You’re not a bad person because you’re LGBTQ. Um, there are lots of people in this community who’ve made a lot of great contributions now that were not swept under the rug and—and forced to keep—stay in the closet. So I’m proud of many contributions of—of my community. Um, I was—it—we just watched—I just watched—I’m in the process—like I had recorded it because I couldn’t watch it. When We Rise.<a title="" href="#_ftn4">[4]</a> And I remember Cleve Jones. And I remember [inaudible]. I remember these people who—who paved the way for people like me. And I think it’s important to tell our history because we tend to forget it. And I think that’s why this project is so important. And why oral history projects are so important. Because the dominant culture does want to erase us. They do want to erase people in the movement. The Women’s Movement. They do want erase people in the African-American Civil Rights Movement. Um, because it makes them feel com—more comfortable who they are. Because they don’t want to accept the fact that they did things that were wrong. There’s a whole movement to erase the Holocaust. And the fact that it happened to the Jewish community. Because the dominant culture isn’t comfortable with dealing with the fact that this happened and some of them were complicit with it. So I’m not about making people comfortable when they do the wrong thing. And if they blow back on me—this has always been a risk for me. When I was at the Florida Department of Agriculture and I stood up for people in my office because they were people of color or people of Jewish faith, I was—I was punished for it. As a—you know, I—I was denied management positions because of my s—because of standing up for others. I was up for—I finally was up for a promotion at work. And, um, I had gone to the March on Washington for LGBTQ rights in I think it was 1992.<a title="" href="#_ftn5">[5]</a> ‘Cause I went to—I went to a couple of them. There was one in the ‘80s and one in the ‘90s. And I can’t remember the exact date. But I’d gone to the—to the second march. And, um, I took—I took my vacation time. And I happened to be in the back of a photograph. I wasn’t even the—the focus of the photograph. I didn’t even know the person was taking it. I was basically getting out of a train to go to Washington[, D.C.]. And I was in the background. And someone took—took that picture out of the paper, faxed it to my division director in Tallahassee[, Florida] and made sure I got demoted. That was my life. And when I called to complain, ‘cause I had actually helped the State of Florida deal with a lot of personnel issues. I was, you know, the person that they sent around to help deal with it—go—as part of my management training. They said, “We’re sorry, Patty. There’s nothing we can do to protect you. We can protect women. We can protect minorities. But we can’t protect you because your class isn’t protected.” So I’ve lived this. This has happened to me. And I think it’s important, you know—I’m not bitter. I mean I get better. I don’t get bitter, I get better. It was a hard thing to deal with at the time. And I was angry. But, um—but I had to find a way to persevere. And eventually, the manager that—the—the—the guy higher up that demoted me ended up getting in trouble for bad behavior at work [laughs]. And, uh, I had a new boss. And I came out to him. He goes, “Why—why are—why are people so reluctant to let me, eh, promote you?” I said, “Because I’m gay.” He said, “Well, that’s stupid.” I’m like, “Well, I know that.” He goes, “You have to understand that not everybody is as comfortable with your sexual orientation as you are.” I said, “It’s not my job to make them comfortable.” He said, “Touché.” And he promoted me. And I thought, Wow. That’s really cool. So, you know, there are allies all along the way that you’re gonna find if you’re willing to stand up for who you are. And it wasn’t easy. Um, I’m—that day that I had to meet with that—with that manager, I was throwing up. I was so—so nervous. Um, when I first ran for office, I was so nervous whenever I had to talk because I was, you know—I was afraid of how it was gonna come up. And I was at a debate one time, um, gosh, at the Audubon Park Covenant Church. Because I was running for office and there was a bunch of us. And, uh, one of the—one of the people stood up and said—um, one of the candidates—one of the—the question, which was clearly aimed at me, was, “Should candidates make an issue of their sexual orientation?” And one of the candidates—candidates stood up and said, “Well, I have a wife. And I have a child. But I don’t think anybody should flaunt their lifestyle.” And I got up there and I said, “Well, it’s very interesting. ‘Cause when my opponent says about his life, it’s charming. When I talk about my life, it’s flaunting.” And a hundred and fif—fifty people in that church that were sitting there listening to that got it. And there were people that ran after me and apologized for that question. So it’s not always easy to make change. And I lost that 1996 election. But I won the next one. So it is, you know—for me, and I think for our movement, it is incremental change. And it’s not easy. And it is something that you have to fight for. But it’s not something that I’m ever willing to—to lay down. And I won’t until the day I die. Um, and the day I die I will be laid at the feet of all the Pulse victims because that’s where I bought my cemetery plot in Greenwood [Cemetery]. I wanna watch over—I wanna watch over those kids forever. Because that’s been—that’s—that’s a part—that’s a part that’s interwoven in my soul. You know? That they were viciously attacked for who they were. And we need to keep telling that story. Because of people are already trying to—they call it “straight-wash” it. But, you know? It’s—it can’t be. We have to talk about how hatred killed them and how we have to be better people as a result of it to honor their memory [sighs]. Sorry [laughs]. Smith No. You’re good. Um, how did you come to obtain the Paul [Efthemios] Tsongas and Brian Arbogast [de Hubert-Miller] 1992 election i.d. tags? Sheehan What? Smith They’re in your collection. Sheehan [sighs] I can’t remember [laughs]. Smith Oh. [laughs] That’s okay. Sheehan It’s Paul and—and Brian? Smith Mmhmm. Sheehan Gosh. I—I don’t know. Really? Maybe they got stuck in there by accident. Because Brian was friend of mine. Um, he helped me with, um—with—he was one of the original founders of, um, what was then Orla—Orlando Regional Pride. And then I knew him. Um, uh, so that’s how I knew Brian Arbogast de Hubert-Miller. Um, and we used to call him “Alphabet Man” because he kept adding, you know—it’s part of his culture. [laughs] He was like, “You know, I’m—I’m Hispanic. So we have a lot of names.” And so he kept adding names. And we were—we laughed and called him “Alphabet Man”. Um, I don’t know how Paul’s came into—to be in my collection. I don’t know. Um, uh, you know, I—eh, during the Names Project, we would—we—we, uh,—we were, uh, carrying names of people who had passed of—of HIV<a title="" href="#_ftn6">[6]</a> and AIDS.<a title="" href="#_ftn7">[7]</a> But those weren’t the names that I carried. ‘Cause—‘cause I don’t think either one of them—no. I can’t remem—I don’t think either one of them passed from AIDS. Um, but, um, there—there was an i.d. tag though that I had that I carried that was, um, a—a, um—it was, uh, from LCN Express.<a title="" href="#_ftn8">[8]</a> And it had my name. And I had it made. Maybe that’s how the i.d. tag accidentally got in my collection. Because we all had—I had an i.d. tag made in case I was a victim of violence at the march that they would know who I was. So it had—it had my name, it had the LCN Express, was the affiliation of the group that I was with, and it had my address on it. It was basically dog tags in case anything happened to me. But that’s the only dog tag that I can recall that, uh—that I had from that time. That and—and one that was fabulous that had sequence on it. ‘Cause, you know, it had a rainbow on it. It was beautiful [laughs]. I am who I am [laughs]. That’s crazy. I—you—that’s so funny. You know? I don’t know how those got in there. Smith Yeah. We had no idea either. We just kind of… Sheehan Wow. Smith …figured we’d ask. Sheehan Nope. I don’t know. Yeah. Okay. What else you got? Smith Uh, what was Michael’s March? And what was your role within it? Sheehan Michael’s March [laughs]? I have no idea [laughs]. Smith That’s okay. Sheehan Yeah. Smith It’s like a letter or something. And it’s—you have it titled “Michael’s March”. Sheehan Oh. That’s from LCN. Okay. Um, back, um, in the ‘80s, there was a big division between men and women in the community. The—the LGBTQ and the gay community. And, um, after the men started getting sick, they were moving in with the lesbians. The lesbians were actually taking care of them. And LCN had kind of been an organization for women—was women’s only space. And a lot of the men were really offended by that. And I’m like, “Look. You guys call us ‘fish’ and you’re really mean to us. So you know? We—we have our own space. You know? That’s our thing.” But when the—the men started getting sick, a lot of us start—you know? A lot of women started taking care of them. And—and—and everything. And the community really started coming together. So when we went to the March on Washington—and I—again, I can’t remember which one. It was Michael Wanzie’s letter I’m pretty sure [sniffs]. Um, that was Michael’s—that—I think that was Michael’s story, um, that he had submitted to LCN, um, about his partner dying. I think that’s the letter that you’re talking about. Um, and Lou Tozer and a bunch of the folks that were really involved with the LCN were very much touched by it. And wanted to include it in our newsletter even though we only allowed women to write for the newsletter. So that—think I’m remembering that right. But I would get into it with Michael a little bit later because, you know—because they would—they—again, there were these issues about allowing women into the what they called at the time gay community services. And representing the rights of women. And it wasn’t easy with the gay men either sometimes. You know? And I mean they weren’t sensitive to women’s culture. And they weren’t sensitive to—to our issues. And I was glad over time that they added GLBCS. You know? Gay Lesbian Bisexual Community Services. And now, you know, we’ve added T<a title="" href="#_ftn9">[9]</a>. And we’ve—we’ve—we’ve been more inclusive. But that wasn’t easy. And there’s been many times when Michael and I tangled because, you know, we said, “Hey. You know? You gotta include women’s issues, too.” So—but Michael’s March was about losing his, um—his partner. His reaction to the march, which was, um, very emotional. Um, and again, I’m trying to remember which year were—was the year the [NAMES Project] AIDS [Memorial] Quilt was unveiled. In ’87 or, gosh, ’90. I—I n—I need to do my research because I can’t remember when the marches exactly happened. But, uh, I—I can get back to you on that. But the first march, um, I believe was the one where they unveiled the AIDS Quilt. You’ll have to go back and look. But that was the year that Whoopie Goldberg<a title="" href="#_ftn10">[10]</a> was the first person to walk out. And she was one of the first actors to actually take a stance on HIV and AIDS. And that was, uh, very emotional for a lot of us ‘cause we lost so many of our friends. I mean I’ve lost, eh—between the age of 20 and 30, I lost easily half my friends. Um, a lot of the entertainers. A lot of the—the drag queens were the first to go. Um, you know? All of a sudden, it’s—everyone started getting sick. They called it Gay-related Immune Deficiency. GRID. And all of us were t— completely panicked and freaked out. And by the time they finally had the test, of course, I took it. Because I was, you know—I was a bad girl. And I was going, Man. Do I have it? And I didn’t. You know? But lesbians had a—had a, you know, lower submission rate and everything like that. Um, a lot of my friends were dying. Um, my closest friend that died was Gary Bailey. And he was my friend and rock. And I mean I just loved that man. And, um, you know, I just couldn’t believe he was sick. And then ended up passing away. And then there was Chuck [inaudible]. And it was just—it was a time when, um, we were going to funerals. Steve Marnier[?]. He was my political, um, mentor. I mean anytime I wanted to bounce something off Steve. And every time that I wanted to do something—he was like one of the few men that really got women’s culture and understood the need for everybody to work together and everything like that. So whenever I really wanted, uh, someone as a sounding board, I would go to Steve. When I ran in 1996, he had gotten really, really sick. And he ended up getting it really early. But he had taken care of himself, so he had it for a while. But in—in ’96, when I ran the first time, um, I had gone to visit him in the hospital and he asked me to pin one of my campaign pins on his—on his hospital robe. And, uh, he died like a couple days later. And, um, I’ll never forget that. So, you know, I mean I wasn’t there when he died, but I was there when gra—when Gary died. And to watch someone pass away that you really care about, and they’re so young, and it’s so unnecessary, you just want the government to do something and to help. And there’s—n—no matter how much we marched, no matter how much we did, no matter—I mean I remember we had—the first time I stood on the AIDS Quilt, and it took up the entire mall. It was a football field of people who were dead. People we had lost. And, uh, the, uh—the amazing thing about the quilt was it actually—they—they designed it so that it was the size of a—of a funeral plot. You know? So you could really get a sense that these were people. It wasn’t like just a name written in a column or something like that. It was the physical size of a person. And, uh, yeah—so I—I think—and—and a lot of that’s forgotten. Young people go, “Oh. What’s the big deal? What’s the—why do you guys get so upset? A—AIDS is—AIDS is survivable.” But there was a time when it wasn’t. And it wasn’t that long ago. And most of us who are a little older remember that. But that’s why we’re so passionate about making sure that, um [sniffs]—that people don’t forget that. Because it was a horrible time. And, um, you know, yeah. It’s become a chronic disease. But it’s not something I would wish on anyone. And I still have friends who are suffering. You know? And I still have friends who are dying. They just die from other opportunit—or oth—other opportunistic diseases. There are some people who are still in the closet about having HIV and AIDS. There are still people who are dying of AIDS. And, uh, uh, you know? Um, we gotta keep telling that story, too. But Michael’s March was about how he lost his partner. And, uh, yeah. It’s a very poignant story. It’s lovely. Even though Wanzie and I have had our issues over the years. Um, I thought that was absolutely a lovely story. But, yeah. That’s when I was with LCN Express. That was a women’s newsletter. And I remember my friend, Joel[?] always saying to me, he’d go, “You are a separatist.” And I’m like, “You know? You have to remember though that we were women feminists. And we also had women’s culture. We—we had a double whammy. We were gay and we were lesbians. You know? We were—I mean we were—we were women. We were gay, but we were also women. We also had the—we also had to deal with the discrimination that came along with being women. And men telling us, “All you need is a good man.” And all that stuff. And the sexual harassment that I experienced as a young woman. And, you know, it—so we had to have the—a space where we could express that. Where we could kind of come to terms with that. Where we could be supported in community, too. And, you know—and—and, uh, after the marches and after HIV and AIDS, we really kind of gelled as a community. But it was a process. So yeah. There was a while when I enjoyed women’s culture. And I kind of did the separatist thing. But I also evolved to realize that we all had to work together because if we didn’t, you know, we were—we were gonna die. And the guys were dying at alarming rates. And we all needed to come together to—to do what we could to stop AIDS. And, you know, to get education. And to get testing. You couldn’t even get—you couldn’t even get reasonable, affordable testing. Those all came as a result of fighting for that for many, many years [phone rings]. Smith Um, who was Charles S., [phone rings] whom you have memorial artifacts for? Sheehan Is that Chase? Chase Smith? Smith Um, all we have is a Charles and then his last initial. S. Sheehan What do you got? I don’t know what you guys have. I need to go over there and check out what you’ve got [laughs]. Smith [inaudible]. Sheehan I mean it could be Chase. But… Smith I believe it is, um, rose pedals and a candle. Sheehan Mm. I mean, um, that might have been from the last AIDS, um, uh, vigil that we had. And, um, Chase was the aid to—to May—a—Chase was my longtime aid for many, many years. And he was also an aide to Mayor [Teresa] Jacobs. And, um, he never disclosed his status to us until he was dying. And, um, I don’t think his family wanted anybody to know that he was HIV-positive. And this just happened a few years ago. I’m almost reluctant to—you know, to do it because, um—because he didn’t want anybody to know he was HIV-positive. And it killed him. He ended up getting, uh, lymphoma, which shouldn’t have killed him. But because his—he had just contracted it and his viral load was really high. It killed him like that. And, um, you know, here—here’s someone who was openly gay, an aide to, you know, me and Mayor Jacobs, um, who wasn’t comfortable enough to ask for help. So that’s why I put Charles S. Because I didn’t want people to know who he was. Because I didn’t—wasn’t sure that [sniffs]—mm—that he would want that known. But you know? There he was. He never came to me. I wish he had come to me. I could’ve—I’d have go—I would have walked him right over to OIC<a title="" href="#_ftn11">[11]</a> to Doctor [Edwin] DeJesus. I’d have gotten the best care I could. But he didn’t feel comfortable telling me ‘cause he was ashamed. And, um, you know? Shame is a killer in my world. You know? I’ve seen it kill too many good people. We have to be—e—e—even though he knew. I mean he was an aid. He knew. All of these resources. He was too ashamed to take them up for himself. So the rose pedals and the, uh, candle were Chase. And, um, I miss him. He’s the reason those are—those pink bunnies are all around—I put those pink bunnies all over town [laughs] [sniffs]. Um, because he loved playing the Easter Bunny for kids. He was just a lovely, helpful, decent man who, uh, had his secrets. And I remember when he was dying—and it happened really quick[sic]. Um, Mayor Jacobs came to me and she goes, “Is he HIV-positive?” I’m like, “I don’t know. He didn’t disclose to me.” And I—that’s—I still struggle with that. I mean, you know? He really didn’t—he didn’t tell me until he was on his deathbed. But, um, yeah. That’s my boy, Chase. So, yeah. I’m—I’m actually delighted that’s part of my collection [clears throat]. Smith Good. Sheehan Yeah [sniffs]. Smith Um, what type of problems... Sheehan I can’t believe you got—where’d you guys get this stuff? I mean what do you guys go around following me? This is weird [laughs]. I’m kind of freaking out a little bit [laughs]. I’m like—I need to like—I need to like say, “Here [laughs]…” That’s interesting. Smith I think it was, uh, donated in 2002. If that helps at all. Sheehan [sighs]. He didn’t die that—wait a minute. No. That couldn’t have been because he didn’t die then. Smith Huh. Sheehan I need to get—I need to get together with you guys and make sure this stuff is in the proper s—sequences and stuff. Because this is just kind of a little strange. Yeah. Because that’s the only Charles S. I could think of would be Chase. And the—and the rose pedal and the candle would have been from the AIDS—but that wouldn’t have been from that long ago. So we may—might need to go over and make sure that everything’s in the proper sequence and stuff like that. Yeah. Smith Okay. Sheehan I’ll—I’ll—I’ll sit down with you. ‘Cause I want to make sure it’s right. ‘Cause it—‘cause you know as it happens some type of historical stuff. You know? It—it’s not quite in the right slot and everything like that. So I’ll—I’ll… Smith Yeah. Sheehan …go over it with you. Yeah. Smith Well, thank you. Sheehan Yeah. I’ll—I’d be glad to do that. ‘Cause it shouldn’t have been from 2002. Gosh. He didn’t even die until [sighs]—I think he’s been dead since 2013 or something. 2—2012 I think he died. Yeah. Yeah. Smith Um, what type of problems and discrimination, if any, ha—did you face during the 2000 and later elections? Sheehan Uh, ’96 was the hard one. ’96 was the one where, um, half the candidates running were gay. I was the only one who was out and open about it. Um, one of the candidates used my sexual orientation against me everywhere she went. And then she ended up going to the runoff. And then she ended up getting defeated because they actually put, um, flyers in—as an insert in all the Orlando Sentinels and all the, um, mailbox—and all the, uh, boxes. And said that Patty Sheehan lost ‘cause she’s a lesbian. And this other woman needs to lose ‘cause she’s a lesbian, too. She was—that’s how she got outed. And where they didn’t s—insert them into the papers and all the mailboxes and all the paper boxes downtown, they threw ‘em all in the intersections in these little bags. Outing this other person. And, um, she came to me and says, “What do I do?” And I’m like, “Well, you know, you used it against me. That’s kind of karma [laughs]. You know? But what you’ve gotta say is discrimination is wrong and that you’re willing to stand up for other people.” And that didn’t happen. It just became an ugly food fight. And that’s the thing. When someone attacks you, it’s the first response to get angry. But that’s what they want. They want you to get angry and frothing at the mouth and looking crazy. And what I’ve learned is I have to, you know, take a step back and take a deep breath and think before I speak, which isn’t always easy sometimes. Sometimes I still get my hackles up. Usually, that’s when I get in trouble. Um, um, because you—you’re—you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking on behalf of a community, whether you like it or not. And, um—and it’s important to do that in a way that educates and not what I—what I always call “teachable moments”. So in ’96, I lost. And I said, “Well, you know what? I only lo—I only lost that election—I only missed that runoff by like 75 votes.” And I threw that l—I threw that together with my friends in like 90 days. I said, “What if I actually worked hard and learned the issues a little bit better that people were criticizing me that I didn’t know about? And what if I really applied myself?” So for the next four years, I got all involved in—in—in city business. And got to know about the codes. And came to—to be president of my neighborhood association. Talking about things like duplexes and, you know, sidewalks. And all those things that were really impacting the neighborhoods. And got to know the other neighborhood leaders. And I ran in 2000 and I beat the incumbent. And I won. So it can be done. And I wasn’t just—even though the newspaper in 1996—they had a huge headline on Election Day, “Gay Candidate Race on Ballot”. Um, yeah. They just ma—they all—they made it all about me being gay. They didn’t make it about any of my other stances on anything. Why I was really running, which was historic preservation, and saving neighborhoods and those kinds of things. Because there was all these teardowns happening. Making better quality of life in our neighborhoods. Business. Those were the things that I ran on. But all they wanted to talk about was me being gay. And then I said, “Okay. All these people now know me. And they know I care about these issues. And I’ve known them from their neighborhoods and all that. Let’s see how this works out.” And it worked out very well for me. I won. And I’ve won every election since. And I’ve been through redistricting. And every time I go through redistricting, my colleagues try to put me in a more conservative area, thinking they’re gonna get—I’m gonna get beaten. And I just get higher and higher, you know, percentages [laughs]. So you know? I’m kind of the middle kid. I get picked on. I’ve represented more of this city than any other commissioner ‘cause they keep moving me around, hoping to get rid of me. And the bottom line is I’m not going anywhere. I’m, you know—I serve at the pleasure of my constituents. They’re my boss. And, uh, you know, I try to do the best job I can for them. And I think it’s important to be an advocate for LGBTQ issues, but I also have to balance that with, “Yes. I care about your issues, too.” But what really offends me is when people say, “Well, you’re gay so you can’t represent me.” That’s not fair. And that’s not true. Um, I think being an a—being an LGBTQ activist has made me a better commissioner because I’m not afraid to fight for what I believe is right. Regard—if that—regardless if that’s sidewalks or if that’s historic preservation. Or if it’s proper infill development. Or if it’s for fighting for small businesses. I—I—I bring that passion to all those aspects of my job. And I think that makes me a better commissioner now—[inaudible] commissioner. So, um, yeah. I think that’s—I think that’s an important point to make. ‘Cause I think a lot of people who are in the LGBTQ community who run for public office are marginalized that way. And it’s something that you have to be able to overcome. Smith How have you used your position as city commissioner to conc—to continue civil rights activism? Cravero [sniffs]. Sheehan Yeah. Uh, when I was with the, um—I was really involved with the Democratic Party many, many years ago and they asked me to be constituency outreach. And it wasn’t easy ‘cause people were angry. I mean like they—go deal with—they’ll go deal with the—the—the—the different caucuses. And then—and—and sit down and, you know, figure out what—what—what are their needs and stuff like that. And people were really angry. And the thing was they hadn’t been asked. So I go in there. I’m this little white girl. You know [laughs]? And, “What do you know about struggle?” This and that. You know? And I’m—everyone I went to I [sniffs]—I was with the African-American caucus and they were—they’re just—and I just said, “Okay. I’m just gonna listen. I’m just gonna sit here and listen to what everybody’s, you know, issues are.” And I sat there. And one of the—one of the gentlemen who was—M—Mr. Armistead[?], who I still know, said, “You hung in there.” He goes, “You just hung in there. And you listened to us.” He goes, “And you know what? That’s important. ‘Cause nobody listens to us.” Like wow. It’s like, “I can’t promise anything. But it—but it’s important to listen.” And I never—I never forgot that. Because for him to tell me, “Nobody has ever listened to me.” This is an African-American lawyer. Pretty prominent in his community. To tell me that no one had ever bothered to listen to him, that’s—that broke my heart. Um, and so I think it’s important, y—you know? I can’t promise I’m gonna fix everybody’s issues like that. You know? Nobody can promise that. Because a—again, any kind of civil rights movement, you have t—it’s incremental change. Because the—the majority’s not gonna just give it to you. You know? The don—they don’t—they don’t say, “Oh. Eh, gay and lesbian community, you want civil rights? African-American community, you want civil rights? Jewish community, you don’t wanna be discriminated against? Oh, we’ll just do this ‘cause it’s the right thing.” It doesn’t happen that way. You know? You have to educate and you have to fight for it. Um, but it’s been a—it’s been an honor to be trusted by people. And with their feelings. And with their concerns. And with their problems. And, um, if you look at it that way, um, that it’s a chance to—to bridge that divide and—and help them, that’s how I look at it. And, you know, I deal with angry people all day long. And I say, “Even a broken clock is right twice a day.” You know? Everybody’s got their—everybody has something to offer. Everybody has something to give you. Um, sometimes people are just mean. I don’t know. I mean I don’t take on everybody who wants to call me a[sic] epithet or curse at me or anything like that. I mean that’s—it—I think there’s a level of civil discourse that’s—that’s very uncivil, especially with social media “keyboard courage” I call it, that really unfortunate. But, uh—but I think overall, if you, um—if you listen and try to—to—to understand—and listen not to respond, but listen to understand, um, you’ll—you’ll—much better advocate and—and public servant. That’s just how I’ve applied it. But I mean I’ve had, you know, the Hispanic community, the African-American community, I just haven’t just dealt with the LGBTQ community, you know, over the years. And, um—and there—and there are specific needs. And there have been specific needs specifically from Pulse. I mean the QLatinx, these young Latin-American, you know, young people. Many of whom—you know, some of—some of the families didn’t claim their kids ‘cause they found out they were gay that way. I mean the—what else—what other community’s experienced that? So there are things that we need to help people with. Um, and we need to be sensitive, too. And I think a community—the community came together really well. I was very proud of how the city—the Camping World Stadium—deal with the immigration issues. I mean a lot of families weren’t even—you know, they had to come here to bury their kids. What a horrible thing. That the way this community—and it’s amazing how well this community came together to help everybody. But that doesn’t mean that we, um, brush aside their concerns as minority community. Smith How have you aided in developing marriage equality? Sheehan [laughs]. You know, um, eh, when—at first when they were talking about marriage equality, I’m like, “I’m not you’re girl.” You know [laughs]? I hadn’t had a relationship in a long time. You know? ‘Cause we were—g—gosh, we had been fighting for marriage equality forever. And—and—and, you know, in the—in the—in the, uh, early 2000s, everybody’s like, “We want you to take this one.” I was, “This really isn’t my thing. You know? I’m a lesbian. I think I got workplace equality. All those things are important to me.” But I hadn’t really been in a long-term relationship. But then I got in a long-term relationship and I realized why those things were important. Because, you know, I went to go get—you know, I went to—to—to deal with, um, um, you know, leaving—leaving my things to my p—my partner in case then—my health had gotten really bad. What if—what if I—what if something happens to me? Um, you know? How do I take care of her? And all those issues that it—marriage conveys 1,500 rights that, you know—‘cause straight people think about, This is a right for me. This is something for me. Gay people shouldn’t have the right to the wedding cake. And all those things. That’s a straight thing. Well, we had the right to the wedding cake. We had the right to the church ceremony. But what we didn’t have access to was the contractual arrangement. So I had to educate myself about it so that I could then communicate it. And I think w—w—and I’m a—I was a member at the time of a lot of the national LGBTQ organizations that said, “You know what? We don’t talk about…” I said, “I don’t care if they call it ‘domestic partnership’ or call it ‘Fred’. But what we need to explain to people is the difference between the wedding cake and the contract.” And so every time I had the chance to talk about it, I said, “There are 1,500 rights that convey with marriage that go—that—that—that we should be able to have access to as a contractual relationship to—to be able to partner with someone. And then other people in the, you know—other—my—my colleagues said, “Yeah. You know? That’s a really well—that’s a really good way to communicate that.” So then we all started—elected officials, we all started talking from that same page. And, you know, we would all get together and fight about how we were gonna do it. ‘Cause, you know, it’s—it’s difficult. I’m from Florida. You know, and—and they’re from San Francisco[, California]. They’re talking about medical marijuana. And they’re so cool. And everyone’s more accepting. I mean, I was like, “Okay. I’m not a canary in the coalmine. And in Orlando, you know, if we can figure out how to communicate it, this should help you guys, too [laughs].” So after a while, we started talking about the rights that convey with marriage. And it—and it was right from the HRC<a title="" href="#_ftn12">[12]</a> website. It wasn’t like it was hidden. But nobody was talking about it. So once we started talking about that from that standpoint, the weird thing for me was I started seeing people go, “Oh. Wait a minute. That’s not fair.” So sometimes we have to remember this. Because we understand something doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody else understands something. And it became an educational process. And I think that all the LGBTQ groups did a better job of—of communicating that fact. The—the proper, um, court cases came forward. I mean the Windsor case<a title="" href="#_ftn13">[13]</a> was just—was beyond. Because that was a clear case of someone being denied access to her partner’s, you know, um, uh, what they had built together in their life. When her partner died, that was a clear case. And, you know, here’s this—here’s all of us gay rights activists who have, you know—fighting, fighting, fighting. And here’s little Edie Windsor<a title="" href="#_ftn14">[14]</a>, you know, winning this historic court case that brought that all come on tumbling down, which was phenomenal. And she’s a hero. You know? She just wanted to fight for what she thought was right. And—and—and I—and something that I tell people that I think the majority of the community doesn’t understand is minority rights have never been conveyed by the majority, except for Ireland. Ireland did it for—for LGBTQ rights. They actually had a referendum and extended marriage equality, too. That there—that’s the only place that had—did not happen in the courts. Usually min—the majority does not vote to give minorities any kind of rights. And so that’s what I tell people. I’m like, “The m—the—the majority feels they’re gonna lose something ridiculously if they—if they—if they look after minorities, unfortunately. Um, so it’s—it should never be up to a referendum. Minority rights should never be up for a referendum. Because they’re—I—they are a minority. You know, you can’t get enough votes out of a mi—minority. But—and that’s why the Constitution talks about the tyranny of the majority. That’s the actual quote about the tyranny of the majority. And have—and having rights for everyone. And having the courts. And having these balances. So, uh, you know—I mean I think it’s important to understand that. And I was glad to be a part of it. Uh, I was—my partner and I were the first domestic partnership. Unfortunately, it broke up shortly thereafter. I was horribly embarrassed ‘cause I never would have put my—my relationship as—as domestic partnership number—number one, had I known it wasn’t going to last that long. I wasn’t on the way out. She was. But, you know, it—it happens. It happens. For divorce happens. And people break up. And, you know—but I felt this tremendous, “Ah.” You know? Pressure to be perfect. And, Oh, my God. How could this happen? I was so horrified. And I was already heartbroken. But, you know, I—and I remember when the report—one of the—one of the reporters found out. I’m like, “I’m just gonna get beaten up so bad, you guys.” “And I ain’t got—I went through a divorce, too. I’m so sorry.” I thought, Wow. I’m actually getting treated like everybody else. Isn’t that nice? It was the first time I really felt like somebody had been fair to me. Was [laughs] dealing with my div—it wasn’t even really a divorce. It was by domestic partnership being—and I had—I went and dissolved it. Yeah. It’s hard—it was hard. ‘Cause I—it wasn’t my choice. But lots of people get left. And lots of people get heartbroken. And it’s part of life. You know? Half of marriages end in divorce. But that doesn’t mean that the LGBTQ community doesn’t b—deserve the same rights and equality or, as some of my friends say, “That’s the same—that’s the same right to be miserable as everyone else [laughs].” You know? But there are some couples that I know that have been together 40—I mean there was a couple that had been together 41 years that got married here on the steps of City Hall. And that was an incredible day. For the mayor [John Hugh “Buddy” Dyer] to have the ceremony. And he’s actually a notary public. He did the—he did the ceremony. And I did a reading. And it was just really lovely to be there. You know? And—and to experience that. And it—and it was a little bittersweet to me because I wasn’t in a relationship. But, um—but, you know, s—it was great for me to see my friends who’d been together 28 years and 20 years. And Bill [Stevens] and Bob [Brings]. My, uh—my assistant got married that day. Um, and they were actually—what a lot of people don’t realize, there was a backcourt case, um, at—at the—at—at Orange County. Um, they had asked for a marriage license. And they were trying to get the clerk to deny them. And they were gonna do—they were gonna fight it in court, but it ended up being that the case came down. And they didn’t up—not ended up having to do it. But, uh—but Bill and Bob were one of those plaintiffs ready to—you know, ready to take on that case if they had needed to. Smith Could you tell us a little about some of your favorite accomplishments as commissioner between 2000 and 2015? Sheehan Um, yeah. I mean getting to work on the Lake Eola fountain. That was really cool. I mean I kind of got criticized because, uh, “Why are you spending all this money for this engineering study?” You know? ‘Cause it’s—it’s a one-of-a-kind thing. I love neat, cool, original stuff. And I like the fact that it looks like a big old Jell-O mold [laughs]. But it was broken down. It wasn’t working. It was dreadful. And the m—most fortuitous lightning strike I think in American history after we had done the study to figure out what it would take to fix it. And they were able to put LED lights. It’s a lot more efficient. And, you know, it’s the icon of our city. It’s beautiful. And it was—wasn’t working for almost two years. And I think that that was—I—I—when you have something like that it has to work. It has to. It got—municipal government. You can’t just say, “Okay. Well, here’s our—here’s our icon. And we’re gonna let—leave the lights off or leave the fountain off.” We couldn’t do that. And—and I think it’s a s—I think it shows that it works. It’s beautiful. It dances [laughs]. It’s—it’s computerized now. It does all these cool things. We have shows that we run to it. That was really neat to get to work on. That was really a lot of fun. Um, painting the [Lake Eola] Bandshell. Working with Walt Disney World, uh, to paint the bandshell in the rainbow after Pulse was just so meaningful. And I—I—it was a very symbolic and beautiful thing. And I didn’t even reali—you know, it—what I first, eh—it never occurred to me to paint it as a rainbow before. And then, uh, I actually a—a—a, uh—a person who just lives in the community. A mom who lost her son to suicide. He wasn’t gay. He killed himself—she says, “You know what? I feel an affinity to these parents—parents who have lost their child.” And she’s an artist. And she says, “Look what you could do. Painting this bandshell in rainbow.” And I didn’t realize there were exactly six ribs in the bandshell for the rainbow colors. And, um—and then Walt Disney World came and painted that. And it just—is—it—it makes such a stunning statement. And it’s such a beautiful testament to remembering the—the 49 fallen of Pulse. That was just—that was really cool to work on. Um, sidewalks. I’m really proud that we can—that we—that we have sidewalks within miles of our el—elementary school. I mean I remember when we used to open up the paper on the first day school and a half dozen kids were getting killed in the ‘90s. The late ‘90s to 2000s. You don’t—you don’t do—you don’t read that any more. We’ve become much more aware of pedestrian safety for children. And children aren’t getting killed walking to school on the first day of s—of school. I’m proud of that. When I was in second grade, one of my best friends got killed walking to school. Again, there was a lot of people says[sic], “Why are you doing this?” Or, “Why can’t we vote?” And I said, “Okay. If there’s 10 people that live on a street and two have children, do the two people that have children get outvoted by the other eight? And we don’t put sidewalks in for children? Really? Is that how that works?” Again, that tyranny of the majority. And I had to stand up for sidewalks. I got death threats [laughs]. They had to park a police car in front of my house for 24 hours ‘cause the death threats got so bad. The Audubon Park people. Um, it is what it is. People take very crazy stances sometimes. You know? And you gotta fight for what you believe in. And I honestly—how am I gonna change my mind, you know, that—when I lost someone as a child. And I’m an adult. And I’m a decision-maker. And I get to make a—and I get to make a difference. Do I just roll over? And the crazy thing was that gave me the political courage to say, “Okay. I really believe in this. I’m gonna fight for it. Even if I don’t ever get reelected.” “You are never gonna get reelected again.” I’m like, “Okay. Well, I guess I’ll have to do that then. Because I believe that this an important leadership thing. Tha—this is an important leadership stance I need to take. Of course I got reelected the next time. ‘Cause people—people always say, “We’re gonna—we’re gonna make sure you never get reelected. And if you are always constantly worried about getting reelected, you will never get anything accomplished. Because there’s always a—there’s always people on two sides of an issue. Always. You have to pick a side or you’re schizophrenic. You cannot bend to please everyone. Is there a—there is even—I wanted to take the trash—I wanted to clean up the trash on Mills [Avenue] and I had someone that was opposed to the—that. How could anybody opp—[laughs] you know? “We don’t like going to these new garbage cans.” Well, that’s ridiculous. But there’s always gonna be somebody against that. And you—you can’t just bend or you’re gonna be completely ineffective. So I’ve decided, you know, I’m gonna fight for what I believe in. And—and I think I’ve been pretty good at it. And the Main Street Districts are always—also something I’m really, really, really proud of. I mean we had all these great little areas that were so cool. I [inaudible] in Ivanhoe. And we did the—the, uh—they call it “Jingle Eve” now. But these[sic] big Christmas thing that we did. I’m like, Why can’t we do special events to bring these folks together? Which had morphed into our Main Street program. And I’m very proud of that program. I mean whenever we get written up in national newspapers and travel magazines now, it’s usually our Main Streets. And I’m proud to have been a huge supporter of that program. And I love what they’re doing. And I—I—I—again—and public art. I mean we were—we were acting like public art was some kind of problem instead of something to be celebrated. And you—then when—when, um, Orlando City [SC] wanted to do murals all over the city to commemorate their news[sic], um—their new team, they said, “Well, you have to—you have to erase them.” You—we’re gonna [inaudible] tempor—I’m like, “Why would I want to do this temporarily? We have all this great art. Why can’t we find a way to legalize art?” So I worked on it—I worked on the orders with the planning staff. And now we’ve got art. But you have to go through a process. You have to get a permit. And it has—that’s what differentiate—differentiates you from the graffiti. So I—I was really proud to do that. I’m an artist. I love that kind of stuff. So, you know, you get to work on really cool things. I mean I’ve been here long enough to where I’ve gotten to do some really cool stuff over the years. And, uh, they’re things I love. And urban—everything from urban chickens, which was a lot of fun, you know? Slow food movement. Um, these are trends. I mean I go to—when I go to a city, I see what are[sic] they doing. What are the kind of cool, f—fun, funky things that they’re doing? And how can we bring ‘em here to Orlando? And urban chickens was one of ‘em. I mean, you know? Backyard chickens. People love that. You know? And I’ve had a great time doing it. And people say that, “My—my kids love having our chickens and going and getting the eggs.” And I love that it teaches kids that food doesn’t come from a grocery store. And it’s important to treat animals humanely. And there’s always lessons that come out of that. So it’s—it’s—it’s—it’s—need to be a—able to a part of, you know—of making that change in people’s lives. And it was something that people asked me to do. Um, so, and you know—I mean I’ve worked with everything from the Asian-American community, um, because they felt they were invisible and they wanted to be more involved in what was happening. And they’ve been really embraced by Mills 50 [District]. And they do the Asian Winter New Year, which is one of the coolest cultural festivals I think that we have. Um, it’s—it’s empowering people to be able to connect and do those things together. That’s the—that’s the neat part of the job. The awful part of the job is when, you know, people are just mean and hateful and say [inaudible]—they just want to suck the soul out of you and just write mean things to you in an email. And I’ll still help him. I don’t take on their anger and their meanness. But I’ll still—you know, like I say, “A broke[sic] clock is even work twice—is right twice a day.” But that’s the stuff that hurts. You know? I’m a human being. People forget that elected officials are people. And, you know, I have people write horrible things about me. But if it’s really, really nasty and it’s so unfair, I don’t even respond. Because I don’t want to dignify it with a denial. It’s not that I accept their opinion of me. It’s that some people—some things are just so bad that you have to—I learned a long time ago that sometimes allowing someone to scream an epithet at me in an empty room and walking away is a lot more impactful than screaming back at them. ‘Cause I’ve had that happen where someone called me the f-word, even though I’m not—I’m not a faggot. I’m a dyke [laughs]. I’ve had someone call me that word. And I just walked away and I let it resonate. And, uh, sometimes that means more to people than shouting back [phone rings]. And, you know, sometimes you gotta know when to walk away. I—believe me, I’m a fighter. But I’m not going to stoop to the level to rise to the occasion. I’m not gonna be like him. Smith Well, is there anything else that you would like to, um, say or talk about that we haven’t talked about? Sheehan No. I just need to go to the collection to make sure you [laughs] guys have got the proper stuff. ‘Cause some of this stuff, I don’t even know what it is [laughs]. So—and I wanna make sure that we’ve got it categorized properly. Yeah. I think I need to do that ‘cause, you know—I mean, uh, ‘cause I had a really—I don’t think I’ve really donated to you guys. I think you probably got it from friends of friends. Or maybe through LCN or something like that. And I—and, you know, like I say, L—LCN was Love and Committed Network. That was the women’s group. And, you know, different things like that. So I just need to make sure we got the right, you know—we’re good—we’ve got the right stuff. Smith Alright. Well, thank you. Sheehan Sure. Thank you. Thanks for coming over. I appreciate it. Smith Of course. Sheehan Awesome. Cravero Alright. <div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref1">[1]</a> University of Central Florida </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref2">[2]</a> Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref3">[3]</a> Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Questioning (or Queer) </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref4">[4]</a> American docudrama miniseries about LGBT rights, created by Dustin Lance Black. The series originally aired from February 7, 2017 – March 3, 2017. </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref5">[5]</a> The March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation took place on April 25, 1993. </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref6">[6]</a> Human Immunodeficiency Virus </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref7">[7]</a> Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref8">[8]</a> Loving – Commitment – Networking. “A Women’s Organization” </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref9">[9]</a> Transgender </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref10">[10]</a> Caryn Elaine Johnson (November 13, 1955 - ) </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref11">[11]</a> Orlando Immunology Center </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref12">[12]</a> Human Rights Campaign </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref13">[13]</a> United States v. Windsor, 570 U.S.__(2013) </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref14">[14]</a> Edith “Edie” Windsor (June 20, 1929 – present) </div> </div> Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLfxgFOd1UA" target="_blank">Oral History of Patty Sheehan</a> 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome activism activists African-American caucus AIDS Asian Winter New Year Asian-American community Audubon Park Covenant Church Bill Stevens Bob Brings Brian Arbogast de Hubert-Miller Caryn Elaine Johnson Charles "Chase" Smith city commissioner civil rights Civil Rights Movement Cleve Jones Democratic Party Democrats discrimination divorce DNC Edith "Edie" Windsor Edwin DeJesus elections feminist movement feminists Florida Department of Agriculture Gary Bailey Gay Lesbian Bisexual Community Services gay marriage Gay-related Immune Deficiency Geoffrey Cravero GLBCS GLBT GLBT History Museum of Central Florida GLBT Services GLBTQ+ governmnet Greenwood Cemetery Grid gun violence hate crimes HIV homophobia homosexuality HRC human immunodeficiency virus Human Rights Campaign immigration It Gets Better Project Jingle Eve John Hugh "Buddy" Dyer Kalynn Smith Lake Eola Lake Eola Bandshell Lake Eola Fountain Lake Eola Park Latinx LCN Express lesbians LGBT LGBTIQ LGBTQ Lou Tozer Loving - Commitment - Networking. A Women's Organization Main Street districts March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay and Bi Equal Rifhts and Liberation marriage equality mass shootings Michael Wanzie Michael's March Mills 50 District municipal government Names Project NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt orlando Orlando city commissioner Orlando City Hall Orlando City SC Orlando Regional Pride Patty Sheehan Paul Efthemios Tsongas pedestrian safety public art public service Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes QLatinx sidewalks slow food movement Teresa Jacobs terrorist attacks tyranny of the majority UCF United States v. Windsor University of Central Florida urban chickens Walt Disney World Westboro Baptist Church When We Rise Whoopie Goldberg women's liberation movement women's movement Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Vietnam War Collection Alternative Title Vietnam Collection Subject Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Veterans--Florida Description The Vietnam War was a Cold War Era "military conflict." The war was originally waged between Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos. The United States became involved as a preventive measure to combat communism. The date of the war has been disputed, but a study in 1998 by the Department of Defense definitively put the start of the Vietnam War as November 1, 1955. The first combat military troops 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade didn't arrive until 1965. With the arrival of the combat troops came the first traditional battles of combat fighting in the war. During the Vietnam War, not only did American military go into battle with and for South Vietnam, the military also trained members of South Vietnam to fight alongside during the war. Peace talks were attempted, with France moderating, beginning on May 10, 1968. These talks were unsuccessful and lasted over three years. The longest battle of the Vietnam War began on January 21, 1968 and didn't end until the U.S. reclaimed Route 9 on April 8, 1968, 77 days later. While the military conflict ended in April of 1975, it was a long process towards reunification and redevelopment as a country. The conflict left Vietnam in both political and economical ruins. Contributor <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Vietnam Contributing Project <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Herring, George C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank">America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</a>. New York: Wiley, 1979. "<a title="American Experience" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html" target="_blank">American Experience</a>." Public Broadcasting Company. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Lanza, Ettore M. Interviewee Friedman, Paul H. Location Coral Springs, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video digital recording Duration 28 minutes and 40 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 127kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Paul H. Friedman Alternative Title Oral History, Friedman Subject Navy Veterans--Florida Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Gulf of Tonkin USS Forrestal (Aircraft carrier) Description Oral history of Paul H. Friedman's military service in Vietnam during the Vietnam War (1961-1975). Friedman was born on August 28, 1946 in Rockway Beach, New York. In 1966, he enlisted in the United States Navy and served in the U.S.S. Forrestal G Division, which engaged in combat operations in the Gulf of Tonkin. Friedman achieved the rank of Petty Officer, 3rd Class. He was injured in the 1967 fire that devastated the Forrestal and killed 134 of his shipmates. Friedman ended his service on November 19, 1967. During his service, he received the National Defense Medal and the Vietnam Service Medal. This oral history interview was conducted by Ettore M. Lanza in Coral Springs, Florida on March 21, 2011. The Vietnam War was a Cold War Era "military conflict". The war was originally waged between Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos. The United States became involved as a preventive measure to combat communism. The official date of the military conflict is November 1, 1955 and ending in April 1975. The date of the war has been disputed, but a study in 1998 by the Department of Defense definitively put the start of the Vietnam War as November 1, 1955. The first combat military troops 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade didn't arrive until 1965. With the arrival of the combat troops came the first traditional battles of combat fighting in the war. During the Vietnam War, not only did American military go into battle with and for South Vietnam, the military also trained members of South Vietnam to fight alongside during the war. Peace talks were attempted, with France moderating, beginning on May 10, 1968. These talks were unsuccessful and lasted over three years. The longest battle of the Vietnam War began on January 21, 1968 and didn't end until the U.S. reclaimed Route 9 on April 8, 1968, seventy-seven days later. While the military conflict ended in 1975, it was a long process towards reunification and redevelopment as a country. The conflict left Vietnam in both political and economical ruins. While the U.S. military was fighting overseas, Many American citizens protested the war at home. Demonstrations took place across the country with the most famous one being at Kent State University in Ohio. While this is the most well known demonstration it was not the first. Americans questioned the U.S. involvement in the war throughout. Abstract Oral history interview of Paul H. Friedman. Interview conducted by Ettore M. Lanza in Coral Springs, Florida. Table Of Contents 00:00 Intro 1:00 Where/when he was born 2:10 Parents/relatives/friends in military? 5:35 Reason he joined Navy/boot camp 8:15 USS Forrestal 8:45 Ship details 9:55 Destinations 11:45 His onboard occupation 13:15 Fire begin 17:35 Shrap metal in his foot 21:10 Fire subside 22:35 Trip back home 25:20 Reflections/book 27:00 Outro Creator Lanza, Ettore M. Source <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/ref/collection/VET/id/52" target="_blank">Friedman, Paul H.</a> Interviewed by Ettore M. Lanza. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0011885. March 21, 2011. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Publisher <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries Date Created 2011-03-21 Date Copyrighted 2011-03-21 Contributor <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Conforms To Standards established by the Veterans History Project, Library of Congress, <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/">http://www.loc.gov/vets/</a>. Format video/mp4 Extent 87.4 MB Medium 28-minute and 40-second digital audio/video recording Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Rockway Beach, New York Gulf of Tonkin Coral Springs, Florida Spatial Coverage 40.586736, -73.81157 19.151389, 107.384722 26.2667, -80.2667 Temporal Coverage 1946-08-28/1966-07-19 1966-07-19/1967-11-19 1967-11-19/2011-03-21 Accrual Method Deposit Rights Holder All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/. Contributing Project <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Morris, Alisha Digital Collection <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a> External Reference "American Experience." Public Broadcasting Company. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html. Burlage, John D. "The Forrestal Fire." America's Navy. http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=73. "USS FORRESTAL (CVA-59)." The Virtual Wall: Vietnam Veterans Memorial. http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm. Moïse, Edwin E. Tonkin Gulf and the Escalation of the Vietnam War. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1996. Freeman, Gregory A. Sailors to the End: The Deadly Fire on the USS Forrestal and the Heroes Who Fought It. New York: William Morrow, 2002. Herring, George C. America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975. New York: Wiley, 1979. External Reference Title "<a title="American Experience" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl3.html" target="_blank">American Experience</a>" "<a href="http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=73" target="_blank">The Forrestal Fire</a>" "<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm" target="_blank">USS FORRESTAL (CVA-59)</a>" <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/34477141" target="_blank">Tonkin Gulf and the Escalation of the Vietnam War</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/48014770" target="_blank">Sailors to the End: The Deadly Fire on the USS Forrestal and the Heroes Who Fought It</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5126110" target="_blank">America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975</a> Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/ref/collection/VET/id/52" target="_blank">Friedman, Paul H.</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/92" target="_blank">Vietnam War Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank">QuickTime</a>. Audience Education Level SS.K.A.1.2; SS.K.A.2.4; SS.K.C.2.1; SS.1.A.1.1; SS.1.A.2.1; SS.1.A.2.2; SS.1.A.2.4; SS.1.C.3.2; SS.1.C.2.1; SS.1.C.2.2; SS.1.C.2.3; SS.1.C.2.4; SS.2.A.1.1; SS.2.C.2.2; SS.2.C.2.4; SS.2.C.2.5; SS.2.C.3.2; SS.3.A.1.1; SS.3.C.2.1; SS.4.A.1.1; SS.4.C.2.2; SS.4.C.2.3; SS.5.A.1.1; SS.5.C.2.5; SS.6.W.1.3; SS.7.C.2.2; SS.7.C.2.3; SS.7.C.4.1; SS.7.C.4.2; SS.8.A.1.1; SS.8.A.1.5; SS.8.A.1.7; SS.912.A.1.1; SS.912.A.1.6; SS.912.A.6.10; SS.912.A.6.13; SS.912.A.6.14; SSS.912.A.6.15; SS.912.A.7.10; SS.912.A.7.11; SS.912.A.7.17; SS.912.C.2.3; SS.912.C.4.2; SS.912.W.1.3; SS.912.W.1.6; SS.912.W.8.4; SS.912.W.9.4 Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Provenance Originally created by Ettore M. Lanza and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries, <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>. Date Issued 2012-03 boot camp enlist fire Friedman, Paul H. G Division Lanza, Ettore M. National Defense Medal Petty Officer Petty Officer 3rd Class Petty Officer Third Class survivor third class Vietnam Service Medal West Pac https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/2ef5430f2b93d7602c64e25a7543edd4.pdf b05afb3d84c0c3c7dfb9265c180e8575 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oviedo Collection Alternative Title Oviedo Collection Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Oviedo, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Oviedo began on the south shore of Lake Jessup as a settlement called Solaria's Wharf. Some of its early settlers include Dr. Henry Foster, Joseph Watts, and Steen Nelson. Citrus and celery dominated the area's farmland, although Central Florida suffered a severe freeze in 1894. Oviedo suffered another disaster in 1914 when a fire wiped out much of the downtown section. Disaster hit again in 1929 with the Wall Street Crash and the beginning of the Great Depression. That same year, Oviedo's fruit crops were decimated by a fruit fly infestation. Another fire destroyed the Wheeler Fertilizer Plant in 1946. Nonetheless, Oviedo continued to grow, with new paved roads going to Geneva and Chuluota and the opening of the Citizens Bank of Oviedo in 1948. In 1949, Oviedo began receing once-a-day bus serviece to Orlando from Greyhound Lines. By 1950, Oviedo was the second largest town in Seminole County, following Sanford. The Oviedo City Hall was built that same year and in 1968, Florida Technological University (present-day University of Central Florida) opened, bringing new residents to the area. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 41: Oviedo, with Dr. Richard Adicks</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494. Robison, Jim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/796757419" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. [Place of publication not identified]: [publisher not identified], 1979. "<a href="http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Oviedo, Florida. http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68. "Oviedo Began as Solaria's Wharf." The Oviedo Heritage, June 30, 1977. Contributor Cepero, Laura Lynn Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Ray Coverage Oviedo, Florida Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/147" target="_blank">Oviedo Historical Society Collection</a>, Oviedo Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee Mikler, Paul Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Paul Mikler Alternative Title Oral History, Mikler Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Celery Automobiles--United States Shopping--United States Drug abuse--Florida Teachers--Florida Education--Florida Description An oral history of Paul Mikler (1916-2000)), a history teacher and coach from Oviedo, Florida. Mikler was born on July 8, 1916, and was raised in Slavia, an unincorporated community that was once part of Oviedo. He taught at Oviedo High School (OHS), where he was seminal in shaping the school's baseball program, from 1946 to 1970. Mikler passed away on April 12, 2000. Interview topics include Slovak immigrants in Oviedo, the importance of St. Luke’s Lutheran Church, the celery industry, Judge R. W. Ware's praise of Oviedo, driving a Ford Model T automobile, Florida State Road 426 (SR 426), visiting Orlando, grocery and clothes shopping, the increase of drug use of youths over the years, and the future of the city, the state, and the country. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:17 Slovak immigrants in Oviedo 0:00:52 Importance of the church 0:01:19 Celery industry 0:01:46 Judge R. W. Ware’s praise of Oviedo 0:02:22 Driving a Ford Model T 0:02:52 Florida State Road 426 and visiting Orlando 0:03:28 Grocery and clothes shopping 0:04:22 Increase in drug use 0:05:12 How students have changed over time 0:05:55 Future of the city, the state, and the country Abstract Oral history interview of Paul Mikler. Interview produced by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Oviedo, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Mikler, Paul. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Oviedo, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Oviedo, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/128" target="_blank">Oviedo Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 6-page digital transcript of original 6-minute and 37-second oral history: Mikler, Paul. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Oviedo, Florida. Coverage Slovakia Oviedo, Florida St. Luke's Lutheran Church, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo High School, Oviedo, Florida Slemons Department Store, Orlando, Florida Creator Mikler, Paul Date Created ca. 1990-2000 Format audio/mp4 application/pdf Extent 164 MB 118 KB Medium 6-minute and 37-second audio/video recording 6-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Paul Mikler. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference Rose, Shannon. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2000-04-28/news/0004280290_1_mikler-oviedo-lessons" target="_blank">Mikler Created Legacy At Oviedo: Paul Mikler, Who Passed Away April 12, Was Dedicated To The High School And Its Sports Programs</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, April 28, 2000. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2000-04-28/news/0004280290_1_mikler-oviedo-lessons. "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/audio/Ep41-Oviedo.mp3" target="_blank">Episode 41: Oviedo, with Dr. Richard Adicks</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/audio/Ep41-Oviedo.mp3. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. S.l: s.n.], 1979. Robison, Jim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/796757419" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. "<a href="http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Oviedo, Florida. http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/aWFJe3hFg7s" target="_blank">Oral History of Paul Mikler</a> Transcript Mikler Well, the—in the early 19—around the 1900, there was a great immigration to America from Europe [clears throat], and my parents came to—as most Slovak immigrants came—they came into New York Harbor and then went wherever they could. So they organized—the group organized what they called “the Slavia Colony Company.” And they sent a delegation to Florida—the company did—to find a location for a new settlement. A small group came to Florida and settled here.<a title="">[1]</a> And they settled here somewhere around 1911, and, um, most of those people were poor folks. They were used to farming, so they had farming on their mind[sic]. They knew how to farm better than most other things, so this is how the colony originated. Now, the building we’re sitting in right now didn’t look like this then, but the first [St. Luke’s Lutheran] Church was built about 1925. This is it. I—I keeps[sic] coming back to this. You can’t separate our community from the church, ‘cause the church—the Lord was important to all, and—and that was—not that we were saints. We’re sinners like everybody, but the Lord meant something to us, and still does to us today. The—the first settlers had difficulty finding a crop—a cash crop—that would be a money crop, you see? Uh, they tried different things, but not knowing the weather, soil conditions, and so forth, they made a lot of mistakes. There were disasters, and so it was not until the—I’d say the middle- to late- [19]20s when celery was introduced and celery became the big cop. And just a case in point: this happened in the 40s. Judge [R. W.] Ware, the County Judge of Seminole County, spoke to the Oviedo PTA [Parent-Teacher Association], and this is some of what he said: he said, “Folks, you know, if—if all Seminole County was like the Oviedo community”—now, we’re talking about Oviedo, Slavia, Chuluota, and Goldenrod, and Wagner, the long—the—he said, “I’d be out of a job.” Now, what’s the moral to that? People did the right thing and crime was insignificant. Well, believe it or not, when I was a teenager, my cousin had—a few people had automobiles. I remember getting the first [Ford] Model T, and I was about the happiest person in the world, riding on the back of that Model T. That wasn’t riding a wagon. It was different, but then later, as we grew up as teenagers, I remember we’d go and get a car from the [inaudible], and go to town, and park on the street, and watch people walk by. We’d buy us about 10 cents worth of bananas, which is about 15 or 20 pounds, you might say [laughs]. I remember when [Florida State Road] 426 was dirt, and going to Orlando, on a wagon, you got up early in the morning, and it would take all day to get to Orlando and back home before darkness, and that was some—some experience. There were no public restrooms. If you got thirsty, you had to carry your own water. It was just a different world. In fact, I remember between Winter Park and Orlando, there were very few homes. Lake Ivanhoe was a wooded lake. It was just woods there. [inaudible] water in[?] the horse on Lake Ivanhoe. And some of you may not believe this, but you could go today in [inaudible] grocery store—the big one, you know? And they—the housewife—whoever was shipping—would take the list to the counter, and the storekeeper would take the order. If you wanted five pounds of sugar, he’d go the shelves, get five pounds of sugar, bring it back. “What else? Five cans of beans?” He’d bring that, and so that was sort of different from today, and then when Papa took us once a year to the Slemons [Department Store], the big store on Church Street, right on—off of Orange Avenue. Uh, Papa would tell Mr. [William Melville] Slemons, “Here’s the family. Dress ‘em up.” So we got our new shirts, pants, suit, cap, shoes, and all that, and that was quite an experience. The whole family went shopping. You see that today? I don’t think so. Unidentified [laughs]. Mikler [laughs]. I think the worst influence we ever had in the history of the world is drugs—the cocaine, and this sort of stuff. This—I feel for kids, I feel for parents, ‘cause I know some of the finest people I know have had cases of that, and—and it’s hard—it’s hard—it’s a hard problem to face, but we must face it squarely, and most people in America—early America—immigrants and otherwise—had to do it [inaudible]—do it themselves. The government was not involved in these things. He said they took Bible and prayer out of school, and they gave prostitution, cocaine, and alcohol, and pornography. That’s how he started his sermon. Now, he was on the money, wasn’t he? Well, one thing I—as a coach, I couldn’t stand—I don’t think I’d allow a player who put a helmet on with hair longer than girl’s hair, but that… Unidentified [laughs]. Mikler I couldn’t stand [laughs]. I couldn’t—I couldn’t stand it. I’m afraid we’re coming to an age, where it’s almost me first. Case in point: when I was teaching, uh, I could ask boys to help move the piano or to help the school do a job, and I’d have volunteers coming. No one asked for any money. It was all voluntarily and they did it with a smile. The later years, it wasn’t so. They said, “Coach, whatcha payin’?” You know, that’s—that’s what we’re into today. It’s hard to say what’s coming, but I can see a great change between, uh, family and community and state and nation. So the family unit— I’m afraid—and our modern civilization, uh—it’s a different—it’s a more difficult world to live in. The future, I hope will be good, but it just depends on how we are willing to discipline ourselves and—and accept absolutes. It’s easy to do wrong, it’s hard to do right, and we gotta make the choices. We have that choice. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Oviedo, Florida. </div> </div> automobiles cars celery Church Street coach coaches county judge county judges dirt roads discipline drug abuse drug use drugs educators farming farms Florida State Road 426 Ford Model T Ford Motor Company groceries grocery grocery stores history teachers immigrants immigration Lake Ivanhoe Lutheranism Lutherans Model T motor vehicles Museum of Seminole County History Orange Avenue orlando Oviedo Oviedo High School Oviedo Parent-Teacher Association Oviedo PTA Parent-Teacher Association Paul Mikler PTA road Seminole County shopping Slavia Colony Company Slavic Slavs Slemons Department Store Slovakia Slovaks sports SR 426 St. Luke’s Lutheran Church students teachers Ware, R. W. William Melville Slemons Winn-Dixie https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/2ede11035b08f37e307f9444c768c148.mp3 0e326aea7ef9b98c728bae17ff81ce35 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/ba180b1e1d8dd7ec76a9409da8627c45.pdf 48968f809e182ddd69bacc587ef4161d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection Alternative Title Celery Soup Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Community theater--United States Theater--United States Description The Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play Remade - Not Bought, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida. Contributor Dingle, Cathy Lee Delgado, Natalie Fedorka, Drew M. Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot A. Kelley, Katie Lee, Luticia Gormley Maliczowski, Linda Lee Maples, Marilyn Miller, Mark Reisz, Autumn Thompson, Trish Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Miller, Mark Interviewee Newman, Peter Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Peter Newman Alternative Title Oral History, Newman Subject Sanford (Fla.) Theater--United States Doctors Physicians--Florida Race relations--United States Description Oral history told by Peter Newman, playwright, director, and board member of Creative Sanford, Inc., a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play community theater productions. Celery Soup's first production was Touch and Go, a play about how the people of Sanford overcame obstacles throughout their history. This interview, conducted by Mark Miller, deals with topics such as the history of Creative Sanford, and Celery Soup, Newman's playwriting process, the Florida highwaymen, scripts that Newman wrote, the use of history as inspiration for plays, the importance of authenticity, the story of Dr. George H. Starke, dealing with sensitive issues and race relations, the interviewing process, and the community's reaction to Celery Soup's plays. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:22 History of Creative Sanford, Inc. and Celery Soup 0:05:39 The fireman and Barbara Farrell 0:07:17 RECORDING CUTS OFF 0:07:17 The fireman and Barbara Farrell 0:07:53 How Newman got involved with Creative Sanford 0:09:13 Using history as an inspiration for community theater 0:11:49 Fire at the Holy Cross Episcopal Church 0:14:05 Importance of authenticity 0:16:08 How Celery Soup chooses topics 0:19:56 Luticia Lee's rolling pin 0:20:52 Dr. George H. Starke 0:25:13 Dealing with sensitive issues and race relations 0:27:45 Uncle Dieter 0:30:25 The interviewing process 0:31:51 Community feedback 0:34:35 Collecting history 0:35:45 Background in theater 0:38:04 Future Celery Soup plays 0:40:09 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Peter Newman. Interview conducted by Mark Miller. Type Sound Source Newman, Peter. Interviewed by Mark Miller. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 40-minute and 19-second oral history: Newman, Peter. Interviewed by Mark Miller. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Coverage Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Swamp Gravy, Colquitt, Georgia Naval Air Station (NAS), Sanford, Florida Holy Cross Episcopal Church, Sanford, Florida Mayfair Country Club, Sanford, Florida Creator Miller, Mark Newman, Peter Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2013 Date Modified 2014-04-08 2014-05-07 Format audio/mp3 application/pdf Extent 407 MB 206 KB Medium 40-minute and 19-second audio recording 18-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Theater Teacher Provenance Originally created by Mark Miller and Peter Newman, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar", Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup. "<a href="http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go" target="_blank">Young dancer helps put spark in 'Touch and Go'</a>." The Sanford Herald, March 2, 2011. http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go. "<a href="http://swampgravy.com/about-us/" target="_blank">About Us</a>." Swamp Gravy: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. http://swampgravy.com/about-us/. Transcript Miller Very nice. You look good. Okay. Well, I’m Mark Miller, with a graduate student with UCF [University of Central Florida]. And I’m here with Peter Newman, uh—director, writer, everything to do with Celery Soup[: Florida’s Folk Life Play], and, uh, and a powerhouse behind Creative Sanford[, Inc]. So we’re here for an interview. So have you been, uh, with the project from the beginning—Creative Sanford and, um, Celery Soup, or anything? Newman Creative Sanford actually started, um, probably three years before we actually put on the first, uh, [clears throat]—the first performance. Um, it was based on, um, Swamp Gravy[: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play], uh, which started in Colquitt in Georgia. And Jeanine Taylor, who runs the, um, gallery across the way there, was really the, uh—the, uh—the, uh, fountain of it. Um, and she came back from seeing Swamp Gravy and decided she wanted to do the same here in. And, uh—I think, um—I mean, she will be able to tell you the story better than I can. But somebody I believe gave her either a check or cash—$200—and said, “There you go. Let’s start it.” Um, they ran, uh, three to four years with the, um, funding within the community doing things like the Celery Ball primarily, and other things like that, before they actually, uh, pushed the boat out and, um, got a hold a company up North, that actually also helped to create Swamp Gravy. And they came down here and they did the first show. They, um—they were, um, helping with the “Tea and Tells,” which is where the community stories were obtained. And then, uh, they have, uh, various professional people, like a playwright—and she took the stories, put them together and produced the play. Then they had professional directors, choreographers, lighting, and all the rest of it. And, um, they came together and they produced, um, the first Touch and Go. Um, it’s called Touch and Go,because, as you probably know, there was an Air Force—no.it was Navy base [Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford] here. They—they flew aircraft. Anyhow, Um, the—it was Navy, because the “touch and go” was practicing carrier landings, so what they’d come is—they’d come down in their jets, touch the tarmac, and then take off again, so hence the “touch and go.” That’s what we used to call it. And, uh, one of the, uh, people who was associated with it very early on, he had a story about watching the planes do that when he was, uh, young in the Second World War— just after. Um, but we—we felt that, um, after we had done Touch and Go—and, I mean, it was a success. There’s no doubt about it, but after that, um—that we could, you know, really, uh, kind of run with it ourselves. I mean, you know there were[sic] a nice enough bunch of people used to doing it, But, uh, they charged an arm and a leg, so you know you can only sustain that for so long. Particularly in a place like this. So, you know, Colquitt, Georgia, is an amazing place, uh, and if you go up there to watch Swamp Gravy, it is the only show in town. And people come from mile[sic]—I mean, it is unbelievable when you go up there to see that hundreds of people that come to it. They come from all over. Whereas here, um, on any one night that we’re putting on something by Celery Soup, you can guarantee that there are between perhaps four to ten other live shows going on in theaters within perhaps a 30 mile radius. And I believe that that is primarily due to the number of people here that are associated with [Walt] Disney [World]. And of course, you know that helps with the whole creative process when it comes around to theater and all its, uh, associated performing arts. So we’ve been going now for about four years with Celery Soup. And we’ve went through a number of iterations. We went through, um, Touch and Go.And we put it on for—well, it was quite a timeactually. We put it on over a period of, um, I think it was 18 months to two years we put it on. And we just repeated it basically, though with different directors. So it’s like a different show, but mainly it was, uh—and to be honest with you, we got reasonable audiences. Um, But I—I—you know, the time came when we had other stories to tell. and the first story that, uh—that I wrote, uh—to be honest with you, I got a little—and a lot of people did—got a little fed up with doing the same thing. I performed, uh, Touch and Go for 47 performances. I’ve never ever done that with any show throughout my entire life before that. Newman So I then picked up on this, um, story about the haunted fire station. Of course, it was just around the corner from the theater .and it was such a wonderful story and very easy to tell. It almost—you know, I sat in the middle of the theater—I think it was one Saturday afternoon—and I—it just kind of wrote itself, you know. Uh, very easy to do and Barbara [Farrell] had given us, uh, her story—there were various other sources that I could use like local books., and then when I wrote it, uh, I actually sent it to Barbara and said, “Look. You know you were right with this.” And she said, “The only thing I want to change in it is that…” Uh, the friend who comes to visit her from Coconut Grove, where Barbara first came from—she wanted her to be called Sue, because that was the name of the name of her friend. Miller Right [laughs]. Newman Okay. So we try. It’s interesting, you know, that you do these things. And when you first look at them, uh, they’re words on a piece of paper, and you don’t really necessarily fully appreciate what there is behind that, but, um, when the—when the word is Barbara Farrell, you know—Barbara’s alive. I went out and met the lady. Very, very nice lady. Very charming lady. And, um, these people are sitting in the audience, so you know you’re actually, um… Miller Okay. We’re back after the vacuum break. Newman Okay. So, as I say, you know, um, Barbara was, uh, an excellent source. A very nice person. Um, the story was easy to tell, and it didn’t take much research, because it was just really all there. Uh, the only thing that we had to do was really knit together the story of the fireman and the story of Barbara, and then just push them together. Newman And really, um—you know, I know you want me… Miller Well… Newman To talk about how I got involved in this but—but—but, this is it, you see? Uh, I kind of got fed up with doing, uh, Touch and Go. I said to myself, Peter, if you’re gonna do anything, you’ve gotta to write it yourself. So I sat down and wrote this story and I passed it to the board of Creative Sanford—said, “Look, I’ve written a story.” We then had a meeting. I think I wrote this—I can’t remember the exact dates, but I want to say I perhaps wrote this story in late November—in December. They had a meeting to discuss the next, uh, Touch and Go—whatever—whatever it was going to be called—by Celery Soup. And I sat there in the audience, and, um, they said, “Oh, the director’s going to be X and the choreographer’s going to be Y.” And—and this and that. And—and then we got two playwrights. One is Laura Donaldson and the other is Peter Newman. And that is the first time I ever realized that I was a—a playwright for Creative Sanford. So it was, you know—they say, you know, “Some people seek greatness. Others have it thrust upon them.” Mine was well and truly thrust upon me. So, you know, I—I came away from that realizing that I really had to, um—but it’s interesting you, know, because with, with that sort of thing, you know, you’ve got to start somewhere. And get from A and get to B. Miller Well this brings up, um, uh—why do you do history? I mean, you know, part of this whole process—I guess Swamp Gravy, and all—how come you do history for this sort of thing? Newman Well, uh, because that’s what it’s about. It’s about bringing out the stories that local people have of, uh—of what they’ve done. And turning that into—into some type of play that you can perform in public. You know, we have—and I’ve sat through hours and hours and hours of these tapes and—and read and read, you know, people’s reports on, on their lives. And a lot of them are the same. Uh, you know, “I—I was born here. I was raised here. My mom and dad were strict with me when I was young. I went to school. Got a job. I got married, had kids, had grandkids. And now here I am and I’m talking to you about it.” And that might be over the course of three hours, you get something like that. The secret with all of these things, Mark [Miller], is not, um, merely to put a recording device in front of somebody. What you have to do is actually drag out of them almost the interesting stories that they have. and there are very, very few people that come to us that have—that really have interesting stories kind of laid out in front of you. We have two very notable exceptions there. And one is the family that tells us about Uncle Dieter. And the other is the family that tells us about Elmer Baggs. And the stories about those two individuals—and, uh, individuals they were—are an absolute legion. Uh, you know, we have quite a few of them. But some of the rest you really, really have to, you know, start digging and, uh— and—and—and trying to get at it. And the history of it, of course, comes from the fact that, you know, history is really, uh, dependent upon how you define it. And for, uh, community theater such as this, we’re looking at, uh, contemporary history. So we’re not going back 65 million years to dinosaurs. We’re not going back 65,000 years. We’re going back 65 years. We’re looking at people’s life spans at what they’ve actually done. People who can remember going back into the 1910s, the 1920s. And, you know, sometimes… Miller Collective memory? Newman It’s—it’s—it is very much a collective memory. Um, the—the— the story that I wrote about the fire station starts with a fireman coming back from a fire in 1923 at the Holy Cross [Episcopal] Church, when it actually burned to the ground. Um, fondly enough we also have the story. Um, and—I can’t remember who for the life of me who it is just off the top of my head. But, um, it’s obviously a—a—an older, uh, guy, saying, you know—telling his story and whatever. And somebody says, “Oh yeah. Tell him about how you burnt the Holy Cross Church down.” [laughs] And apparently this—this—this person was the knave[?] at the Holy Cross fire. He was baptized. And he always thought that it was a candle that they left after his baptism service that actually was responsible for burning the church down. But it just struck me as being, you know, very fascinating that—that here I’ve got the Holy Cross Episcopal Church. Over here is the guy who’s giving his story that actually—that actually relates to that burning down. So, you know, some of the things that we could tell instead of being snip-its could be much, much, longer. But of course, you know, you have to bear in mind what it is, know who you’re dealing with, and, uh, you have to have an eye to the, uh—the consumption of what you’re actually producing, rather than just producing for producing’s sake. It’s not something that is, um—it’s not an academic exercise. You know, what you’re dealing with. You’re dealing with living history, with real people. You’re dealing with their lives. It has to stand up to their own scrutiny. So if you tell me your tale, and I turn it into a play, I—I could look you fairly in the squarely in the eye and say, “Look, Mark,” you know, “Your story that you were telling in front of all of these people.” And you would be happy with that, as opposed to taking kind of mangling it around and producing all sorts of other things there to make it a little more interesting. I’m sure you have lots of interesting stories, but that’s nonetheless the way we have to have that in the back of our mind all the time. Miller So authenticity—that’s something that is very important? Newman Authenticity is very important. I mean, you—you can take it, um, to a degree. I mean, what—what you deal with, for example, you—you might—it’s I—I—I guess it’s like, um—it’s like a, um—a pudding. Uh, uh, and, in that pudding, you’ve got raisins, and those raisins are the bits of authenticity. And then you sort of, uh, really pad other stuff in. You— you can’t be authentic 100 percent of the time. Um, the last story that—that I wrote, um, for the, uh—for, uh, Remade - Not Bought, was a story about a lady called Arthurene[sp] Wood[?], who worked in the tax office. And this is just a little story—she had about been almost locked in there one night. And, uh Arthurene actually came and—and said—Arthurene and Mona—that was her friend and that was absolutely authentic. But onto the end of it, I grafted this huge story about somebody writing a, uh, check on the side of a cow, which was, uh—was not authentic at all. It was just a, uh—a story, that’s what it was. But it, you know—it made for good theater. So you always have to have, um, an eye to what—what I say what the audience is. The audience will not sit there and listen to somebody going on about their childhood or anything like that, because it is not interesting. And you’re asking these people to pay money to come and listen to what we are producing at Creative Sanford. And you—you’ve got to have something that they are interested in, because, otherwise there’s no point in doing it. Because you’re asking them to pay and—and, otherwise, they go away grumbling and say, “Well, it’s not worth it,” and all the rest of it. You might be alright for that show, but, when it comes around to doing another show, then you find you’ve shot yourself in the foot, and have a much bigger mountain to climb, when it comes around to producing the audiences for a show like that. Miller Well, how do you pick your topics then? Uh, uh, apparently, uh, from what we’ve heard, there are, um, a few key words or something that you might—might choose to sort of build stories around? Newman To a large extent, it depends on the sort of, um, grist[?] that you have for your mill. Um, and it’s not something that you have as a sort of, uh, list of—of topics that you may or may not choose. It’s something that just stands up and hits you out of—soft of—like, for example, when I wrote, um, the highway man. That was something that, um, the, uh—the Sanford council or Seminole County, uh, lawyer. Uh, a guy called Doug[las] Stenstrom. And, uh, he gave his story. And, you know, uh, a very long, actually very entertaining, uh, set of reminiscences. And, out of this, there was[sic] a couple of lines about, um, the—uh, was it the paintings or did he actually mention the highway men? The—the, uh, Florida Highwaymen who painted these paintings, in the [19]50s and the ‘60s and sold them. And, um, one of the guys that was originally associated with Celery Soup—a guy called Perry Eschelberg, who actually lives over in Serenity Towers—Bram Towers, as it was then. So I went and talked to Perry, and he said, “Yeah. We’ve got them here.” And he showed me all the Al Newton paintings that are there in the foyer, and you can still see this old one that was screwed to the wall. And so I thought then, This is such a—and fondly[?] enough at that time, um, from something of the public radio that they were talking about that something of the highwaymen. And then I saw something else on the local TV—they were talking about the highway men. So I thought, Right. I’m gonna get home and do— do my bit first. So I wrote this story so the only really, um, catch I could find in it. So to make it more interesting was they took all the highwaymen down, when they renovated the building, uh, a number of years ago and then they put them back up. Originally, I—I entitled it The Mystery of the Missing Highway Men Mystery. But, I mean, it was a nice story I—I felt, that kind of made it a—a little more interesting. Um, but, you know, the actual history of the highwaymen is— is fascinating. I believe, that over the next three or four years, that you’ll perhaps see a lot more people coming out with stories about the highwaymen more than—than what there’s been to date. So, you know, how does anything stand up it? It—it—it just does, you know. We got, um— we got—at least I got—I got a story about, uh, somebody who used to have the land lease for the Mayfair Golf Club.<a title="">[1]</a> And, um, I— kind of researched it and then looked at it, and I didn’t—it took me a long time to actually find the angle that I wanted. But, um, I—I wrote what—what I consider to be a funny piece. but it’s, uh—we couldn’t put it on, because there’s this court case going through between the, uh, people who have the lease to the golf course and Seminole County, who actually own the land. And, um, it was about who designed the golf course. So I wrote this story about who designed the Mayfair golf course. So if you come to see next time, hopefully that story might be in there. Miller [inaudible] Newman Yup. Miller Well, we did see two that that we were interested—that we’re sort of focusing on. Um, one of them is about the rolling pin. And the other story is about Dr. [George H.] Starke. And, um, uh, we’re interested in how you picked those and how you approached them. Newman Well, first of all the—the—the rolling pin now—when we did this iteration of, uh—of, uh, Celery Soup, there were two—as I said before, there were two of us writing. One was Laura Donaldson, and the other was me. Now Laura actually found the story about the rolling pin. Again, uh, she got it from somebody,<a title="">[2]</a> who came in and told the story about the cannon, and—and its wheels, and what have you. And she produced a really nice little story about, you know, the rolling pin, the kids, and the—and the mother, and how they use to roll it out. And, you know, they were using a bit of history with that. Um, Dr. Starke, um—that we used to have a lady,<a title="">[3]</a> uh, who was—she—she was in the original Touch and Go, and now she moved on to the Board of Creative Sanford. She’s, uh, um—she used to be a—a professor at the Seminole, uh, Community College.<a title="">[4]</a> And she said, um—talked to me about this—this, uh—Dr. Starke. And, um, she had a lot of, um, uh, information on him, which she gave to me. And, you know, uh, you read all this stuff. And, uh, Starke’s interesting, because he was there. If you go down to the Orlando museum<a title="">[5]</a> in Downtown [Orlando], you’ll see they’ve got a big display about [George] Henry Starke, and—and the bombing in Mims, and—and in 1951. You know, when they killed the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] local secretary.<a title="">[6]</a> Um, so that’s all pretty graphically laid out. I went down there to have a look at that. And then [George] Henry Starke’s son—I think his name’s George [Starke]—he was, um—he became a lawyer and he’s a—he’s a—he’s a very well-known financer. He lives up there in New York, but I’ve never gotten a hold of him. But, uh, he’s still around. But the—the story about Starke—I mean, it’s a really good story. There’s a lot of detail there. It affects a lot of people. Um, it was really how do you, you know, tell it—a story like that? And I—I noticed, when I was going through it, there’s a little time—a little footnote—that said that, when the original researchers were producing all of this information, you know, it said, uh, “As told to us by his—daughter,<a title="">[7]</a>” uh, “in a restaurant in” 1964, or whenever it was. So that—I—I—I kind of took that. That’s how I got the idea of the, uh—the restaurant and kind of bringing it in like that, which I felt was a, you know, uh—a good way of telling, and putting it in—in—in some sort of context. But it was interesting that, um, I, uh, you know—I’m not probably, uh, uh, a native of Sanford, but, um… Miller Live here, work here, play here. Newman [laughs] But, um, when, uh, we did the original Touch and Go, uh, there—there was a guy called Will Saunders, and his brother Tommy [Saunders]. Uh, they’re both, uh—black guys. And Will is, uh—really, really nice guys, they were. Will was, um—he used to be on the board of—of Creative Sanford, as well. but he said he preferred to, uh—it was a toss-up between Creative Sanford and watching his football. He preferred to watch his football, so, you know, that—that’s fine. But—but Will’s a great one for photography, you know. He’s taken thousands and thousands of photos of the, uh, Touch and Go shows over the years. In fact, I believe they’re his photos that they are there down there at the [Princess] Theater. But, um, he came to the, um, uh—the—the Starke—when we first did the—the, uh, Starke play. And he came down and said to me—what was it he said to me? He said, “Dr. Starke.” He said, “He actually delivered me and Tommy.” So I, you know—it— it’s little things like that—that, you know, just make you realize that you’re not dealing with just words on a piece of paper. This is actually community. there are people that—even the lady, uh—Nancy [Harris] Ford, who’s in the show—I think, uh, uh—she was delivered by Dr. Starke, as well. So, you know, there, uh—obviously a very, very well-known guy, uh, and you know, uh, such a—such a, you know, uh—he—he—his attitude towards people was unbelievable. it really was. You know, uh, this—this string of humanity kind of pours out of the fellow, you know. And to appear twice in Time magazine is—is—is—shows he’s no slouch either. So, interesting guy. Miller Well, how do you deal with, uh, counter-narrative or, say, gaps in your story, or maybe sensitive areas? Um… Newman Well, um, sensitive areas—uh, of course, you know, it’s Sanford. Um, there was, uh, uh— there was segregation here obviously, uh, um, until obviously the mid-70s. and I was actually, um, going to write, um, a story about the segregation of the schools, which you could, um—between Crooms [High School]<a title="">[8]</a> and, uh, uh, uh, Sanford, and—and, uh, the [Seminole] High School, uh, which was in 1972-[19]73. There’s, uh, uh, a friend of mine was there. Nancy Ford was there at that time, as well. And they both had their particular stories to tell. But then, of course, we had the—the whole Trayvon [Benjamin] Martin and George [Michael] Zimmerman thing. And, uh, the board really felt that, you know, you could wade around in this ‘til the cows come home, but they didn’t really feel that it was something that we really necessarily wanted to—to overplay. Uh, and, in fact, you know, there is obviously, um—there’s a black element to this and there’s a white element to this. Um, and really—I mean, personally, I’d like to see the—the things be a little close together, you know. It—it’s very difficult to, uh, write the stories that we’ve got, um, if you’ve—if you’re not confident that you’ve got the people—you know, the—the—the black people—to come and play the parts. I mean, luck—you know, luckily, we had some really good people., but it’s, you know—it’s—it’s particularly men, um, in the sort of 30 to 50 age range—whether they’re black, white, or whatever color. You know, you just can’t just go tell them that this is not the sort of thing that, you know, really does very much for them. So you—you’ve got to always bear that in the back of your mind. But certainly, you know, we are conscious of the fact that Sanford has, uh, perhaps—I don’t know whether it’s an unenviable reputation, because of what’s happened in the past. Um, and you—you don’t have to look very far to find it either. In terms of other things, um, if you look at something like Uncle Dieter, uh—I mean, when I first saw that, they actually asked me to play Uncle Dieter in Touch and Go, which I did. Um, I—I was a little cherry about it, because, of course, you know, he was, uh—wasn’t quite an idiot savant, but very much this sort of, um, like, um, the play<a title="">[9]</a> Rain Man. you know, It’s—it’s—and it’s true that, you know, you could give him your birthdate and he would [snaps] tell you just like that what day of the week it was. You know, he—he—he kind of, you know, lived life to his own beat of the drum. You know, he—he would do things in his own particular way that—that nobody else would think of doing. Um, he had this, uh—perhaps you didn’t see Touch and Go—but he had this, uh, rooster that he use to carry around with him that had no legs. And, uh, the—the—the joke was, of course, well, uh, “Where do you find a rooster with no legs?” Where do you find a rooster with no legs? Exactly where you left it. But apparently that—what we— we found out the reason why this rooster had no legs is because, uh, the rooster caught, um—I think it was some sort of parasite—something like that. And, uh, they advised Dieter to bathe the rooster’s legs in gasoline. I mean, and this would be like sort of, you know, like putting, um, gas—gasoline on a cloth and just rubbing it down—something like that. But he stuck this bird in the gasoline for hours. And, of course, eventually it lost its legs. Because of the effect of the gasoline. So he used to carry the rooster around, you know. Just—just a man very much following his own light. And, you know, with people like that, it’s very easy to—to write stories about them. With people like that, you know, you’re not demeaning them or doing anything like that. And I think really, when it comes around to looking and—and, I mean, it’s not just here. It’s anywhere, you know. Uh, we’ve got a mix of cultures. You’ve got a mix of people. You know some are old. Some are young. So long as you don’t demean them, or run them down, which is totally unnecessary. Not what were about at all. Then I think you can legitimately tell their story to any audience that you care to invite through the door. Miller Very good. Alright. Um, so you’re telling stories about ourselves to ourselves? Newman Exactly. Miller Alright. [inaudible]. Newman I mean, let’s be honest. I mean, you know, you have a story. You might think, Well, I mean, Okay. Fine. But, I mean, you have a story. You’ve got more than one. You’ve got a lot of stories. And, uh, it’s really up to the person who’s doing the interviewing just to kind of drag that story out of the person who is the interviewee. I mean, you know, not everybody sits down and goes on and on and on and on, like I do. You know, sometimes it’s very, very difficult to just bring the person back and say, “Well, you said about this and what about that?” But that is the only way that you can do it to get hold of information from them that you can’t get from a thousand other people. Because you’re not talking about their lives per se. you’re talking about their lives in Sanford and how they interacted within the environment and the community. And, of course, that’s not what everybody does around here, because some people live in Longwood. Some people live in Tallahassee. Some people live in Nigeria. You know, they’re—they’re all born and raised in a family, and perhaps go to school, and have kids ,and da de da de da de da. But it’s the environment that—that really makes the person and the way that they interact with the environment of the people. That’s what makes the interesting story. Miller How does the community react to your play and to your writing? Newman Well, generally speaking, we—we haven’t—well, we’ve had, um—it’s true to say that, as soon as you put anything on, and hold it up as being— here is a spectacle for somebody to look at and you’re asking them to pay money to come and see it. Um, it holds its self up to ridicule, criticism—call it whatever you will. And we’ve had our fair share of criticism. People criticize that it’s, uh—there’s[sic] too many stories about black people, or there’s[sic] not enough stories about white people, or, you know, this or that or—or whatever. But, to me, that is just healthy criticism. If somebody came along and said, you know, “My name is Mrs. X. and my mother gave you this story. And that you’ve just done with my mother’s story, I think is just awful.” I would be very, very, upset about that. And I would want to know why this had happened, but, you know, touch wood. We’ve never had anything like that. Nobody has ever said, um, you know, that—that—that what you’ve done is terrible to the story. That, in fact, um—when I played, uh, Elmer Baggs in the first show, Marlene Baggs came up and said, um, you know, that “I— I really enjoyed it.” I got the same thing from, um, Uncle Dieter and, uh, one of his nieces. She said that she enjoyed it as well, because, you know, we—we didn’t demean the person. You know, we told the story. And, if we added a twist of humor to it, as well, or a twist of mystery, you know, it doesn’t take a thing beyond the realms of—of probability. Then that’s—that’s really what you have to do, you know, when you’re telling all of these things. You know, if the people have die—uh, died, and—and you tell the story about the founding of Sanford, or something like that, you go back to Colonel<a title="">[10]</a> [Henry Shelton] Sanford, you know—there were two of them. Him and a general. And they kind of tossed up to see what it was gonna be called and all the rest. They weren’t really proper Army generals, and you can do that. But—and it is history. But if—if you’re trying to be sort of faithful to the idea of a community—a historical performance—then it’s—as much as you possibly—if can, use live testimony opposed to something you get out of a history book, then I believe that that’s what you should be aiming to do. Miller Well, how do you go about collecting these histories? Newman Same way as you do with, uh—we’ve—we’ve done “Tea and Tells.” And these little recorders here are a godsend, because you just put them on the, uh, table and people talk into them. And, uh, you know, sometimes you go to sit and listen to them. Sometimes they’re transposed onto, uh, paper or something like that, so you can sit there and read them. But, you know, it— it’s, um—it’s an art, I think. Interviewing people and getting what you need to get out of them is an art. But generally speaking, um, there are very, very few people who don’t want to come in and talk about themselves, you know, not everybody, but, you know generally speaking, people aren’t resistant to talk about their lives, once you kind of start the ball rolling. It’s, you know—it’s a fascinating subject. You can sit and talk about yourself all night long if you really think about it. Miller Do you have writing background? Plays? Newman Um… Miller Plays? Newman Personally, no. The only writing that I—I mean, I was, um, associated with a theatrical group in the UK [United Kingdom] for a long, long time. And I did all sorts of stuff there, including writing. Um, but I’ve never actually sat down and, um, and written a book, or written a play, or anything like that. It’s just—it’s just kind of dabbling here and there. And this one is as—is as good a place to dabble as any other, because you’re—you’re just looking at, um, little bites that you—that you’re performing. You know, nothing is more than five or six minutes long. Um, it’s, uh—you—you—you try to build the characters to make them interesting. And I—I know how these things should work, because I’ve had so much experience of doing it in the past. But, uh, you can’t afford—I—I—I mean, you can’t afford of subtle nuances. You know, we’re not talking Broadway Theater. And, uh, and people who are going to the theater every, you know—every week or something like that. What you’re doing is you are producing mass entertainment. And that’s such—it has to be pitched at a certain level. So, you know, it’s—it’s not a question of using complicated plot lines that go on for half an hour, or spending 20 minutes trying to work, uh, you know—work out how a person’s psyche is actually affecting everybody within the—the play. No. You’ve got to have something that’s quick, that’s lively, that keeps people’s attention. And people have a very short attention span for things like this, generally speaking. So it’s gotta be that—it’s got to be—it’s gotta have a certain amount of “razzmatazz” that has to go with it. At the end of the day, you’ve got to produce a commercial article, because that’s what you’re going to—to go out and sell. So yeah. You know, I mean, when—when I first wrote the—the fireman, you know, it had all sorts of stuff in it and, uh—but it was severely cut down, because, of course, it was just, uh—it was just not required. So you’ve got to be careful of these things. Miller Well, what do we have to look forward to in the future? Newman Well, it’s more of the same. Um, you know, we have got some, uh, uh, more stories here. I’ve got, um, three that I’ve written. Uh, there’s—there’s the one about the golf course. There’s the one about, uh, a policeman’s dog that used to go and, uh, and test door handles by itself. And then I also wrote one about, um, uh, a fight. It—it was when, uh—again, this was going back to the schools’ integration—and it was a story that a, uh, lady gave us. And I wrote, uh, uh, about that. So, you know, that’s a bit of a kernel there, and then we’ve got other things. And I believe that, um, UCF also has a library of things, because it—it might well be that we’ve tried to kind of keep it to Sanford. Um, but, you know, perhaps we’ll extend it to Seminole County, or something like that. But there is still a lot of people here. I mean, even during the last show, one of the guys who plays, um—he played one of the firemen, and—and he was also the, um, uh, the president of the—of the Sanford, uh, local business society, right at the end there. His name’s Mike. [clears throat] He said that he knew a guy. Uh, I think this guy rented him a house, or sold him a house. He said that this guy’s father, uh—he used to brew moonshine, over there at the other side of Lake Monroe there. And, you know, the stories that he could tell. So, you know, you—you’ve gotta kinda keep your ears open for something like this. You know, just—just follow up on them. Like, if it’s something interesting like that. so, you know, we’ll look, uh—look and see if we can’t get something that’s light and entertaining next time. Miller Alright. Well, thank you very much. Newman I hope I’ve been light and entertaining Miller Yes. You have. Dramatically so. Newman Thank you. Miller [laughs] Thank you. Newman Alright. Miller I do appreciate it. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: Mayfair Country Club. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Luticia Lee. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Dr. Annye Refoe. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Present-day Seminole State College. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Orange County Regional History Center. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> Harry T. Moore. </div> <div> <a title="">[7]</a> Helen Starke. </div> <div> <a title="">[8]</a> Present-day Crooms Academy of Information Technology. </div> <div> <a title="">[9]</a> Correction: film. </div> <div> <a title="">[10]</a> Correction: General. </div> </div> Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/files/original/2ede11035b08f37e307f9444c768c148.mp3" target="_blank">Oral History of Peter Newman</a> 1st Street A. Newton African Americans Barbara Farrell Bram Towers Celery Bowl Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Coconut Grove Colquitt, Georgia community theaters Creative Sanford, Inc. Crooms Academy Crooms High School doctors Douglas Strenstrom Downtown Orlando Elmer Baggs First Street Florida Highway folk plays George H. Starke George Michael Zimmerman George Zimmerman Harry T. Moore Harry Tyson Moore Henry Shelton Sanford highwayman highwaymen Holy Cross Episcopal Church Jeanine Taylor Lake Monroe Laura Donaldson Luticia Lee Mark Miller Marlene Baggs Mayfair Country Club moonshine NAACP Nancy Ford Nancy Harris NAS Sanford National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Naval Air Station Sanford OCRHC Orange County Regional History Center Perry Eschelberg Peter Newman physicians playwrights playwriting Princess Theater race relations Rain Man Remade - Not Bought rolling pins Sanford SCC segregation Seminole Community College Seminole County Seminole High School Seminole State College Serenity Towers SSC Swamp Gravy: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play Tea and Tell theaters theatre Time Magazine Tommy Saunders Touch and Go Trayvon Benjamin Martin Trayvon Martin UCF University of Central Florida Walt Disney World Will Saunders https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/efd5049d910182e50916c3c85f53df44.pdf b46eaec4a1988206e0a961500df2e88d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection Description As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress. Contributor <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida Alternative Title CVHP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida United States. Army Army United States. Navy Navy United States. Air Force Air Force United States. Marine Corps Marine Corps Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Jacksonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Honolulu, Hawaii Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Great Lakes, Illinois Long Island, New York Newport, Rhode Island Norfolk, Virginia Germany Qaasuitsup, Greenland Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland Azores Islands, Portugal Mediterranean Sea Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Philip Rogers Alternative Title Oral History, Rogers Subject Veterans--Florida Navy Orlando (Fla.) Description An oral history interview of Philip Rogers (b. 1953), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1998. Rogers was born in the Bronx borough of New York City, New York, in 1953. He attended Lehman College for undergraduate school and Indiana University for graduate school. In May of 1978, Rogers was commissioned as an officer and assigned to teach engineering at the Nuclear Power School at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando). After four and a half years, he became an Engineering Duty Office in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. This interview was conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando on November 14, 2014. Interview topics include Rogers' background, becoming a commissioned officer, teaching at the Nuclear Power School at NTC Orlando, serving as an Engineering Duty Officer in Pearl Harbor, serving in the Naval Reserves, advanced training, the USS Nathan Hale, the Cold War, the University of Central Florida (UCF), his wife and family, and the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:31 Background 0:03:05 Becoming a commissioned officer 0:09:02 Pearl Harbor, Hawaii 0:10:41 Naval Reserves 0:11:36 Advanced training and the USS Nathan Hale 0:15:24 Hawaii 0:17:26 Making suggestions and dry docking 0:18:37 Transition from active duty to Reserve 0:20:03 Naval mentors 0:22:09 Ronald Reagan, the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crises, and Bill Clinton 0:24:39 Final years in the Reserves and civilian life 0:25:54 Civilian attitudes towards the military 0:26:48 University of Central Florida and wife 0:29:06 Terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001 0:30:08 Lessons learned from the Navy and benefits of joining 0:32:48 Migrating to Orlando and working at UCF 0:34:29 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Philip Rogers. Interview conducted by Killian Hiltz in Orlando, Florida, November 14, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 20-page digital transcript of original 35-minute and 37-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a>. Interviewed by Killian Hiltz, November 14, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016191, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Bronx, New York City, New York Washington, D.C. Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Jensen Beach, Florida University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Creator Rogers, Philip Hiltz, Killian Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-11-14 Date Issued 2015-02 Date Copyrighted 2014-11-14 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 306 MB 196 KB Medium 35-minute and 37-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording 20-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Killian Hiltz and Philip Rogers. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/503/rec/1" target="_blank">Rogers, Philip</a> Transcript Hiltz Today is, um—it is November 14th, 2014. I am interviewing Mr. Phil—Philip Rogers, um, who served in the Navy from 1978 through—to 1998. Mr. Rogers served as an instructor at the Naval [Nuclear] Power School. Uh, he retired as a Commander. My name is Killian Hiltz, I am interviewing, uh, Mr. Rogers as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Veterans Community History Project. We are recording this interview, uh, at Orlando, Florida. Um, thank you, Mr. Rogers. Um, uh, where and when were you born? Rogers I was born in the Bronx[, New York City], New York, uh, in 1953. Hiltz Uh, what was your childhood like? Rogers Uh, grew up in a modest, you know, tenant apartment. Went to public schools, um, two years of private schools, went—and then Lehman College, which is a ci—city school. Did that, uh—did that for, you know—through—and then I worked a little bit. Um, and probably when I was like 22, I went off to graduate school in Indiana. Hiltz Um, what was the private school like? Rogers It was good. It was a little more disciplined. The schools I was[sic] in was[sic] a little rough, so my parents took me out to a more, you know—less chance of getting hurt [laughs]—school. Um… Hiltz Um, what was, um—what was college like, for you? Rogers I liked it. I was a commuter. I went back and forth on the train, uh, eh, because we didn’t have a car. So we—I travelled on the train to high school and to college for eight years. Uphill both ways—just joking [laughs]. Um, uh, so I traveled that way, uh, and did my four years there, and I got a degree in chemistry from, eh, um, Lehman College. Hiltz Uh, you mentioned that you went to graduate school, as well. Rogers Yes. Hiltz Uh, what was your gra—what was your grad… Rogers Uh, I got a Master’s degree in chemistry, entomology, from Indiana University. I was in the PhD<a title="">[1]</a> program, but when the Navy came looking for people, I kinda said, Well, I wanna do that. so I kinda left with a Master’s degree and went on to, uh, um—the, um—took the Master’s and then went on to the Navy. Hiltz Um, what did your parents do for a living? Rogers My father was a laborer, worked in a baker[sic], and my mother was just stay-at-home—stay-at-home mom. Hiltz Did you have any siblings? Rogers Brother. Still have a brother. Actually, he lives in Orlando. So… Hiltz Uh, did, uh—your brother also join the service? Rogers No, no. He never did. No. Hiltz Um, did, uh—did anyone in your family before you, uh, serve as enlisted or commissioned? Rogers Yes, my father was—was, um, enlisted in, uh, World—World War II. Um, and my grandfather was in World War I. Hiltz Uh, what branches did they serve? Rogers Army. Both of them, Army. Hiltz Uh, did they see combat? Rogers Uh, yes. Both of them did. Uh, my—In fact, my grandfather had a Purple Heart, and, uh, my father didn’t get a medal, but he had—he had some kind of foot injury or something, but—yeah. So… Hiltz Uh, uh, what caused you to become a commissioned officer? Rogers Well, it was a—it’s a long story. It was like, um— let’s see. Indiana University—it’s kind of cold up there—Bloomington, Indiana. It was like six degrees below zero [sniffs], and, uh, the Navy had a little brochure says—saying, “Would you like to fly to Orlando on the Navy this weekend?” Free. Orlando, Florida. So I said, “Sure.” I had no intention to go into the military—zero. So I went, “Okay. Fine.” so I signed up, and then I had to go take some tests, you know—you know, academic tests and physical tests, and, uh—and then they said,”Well, You know, Admiral [Hyman George] Rickover,” who is the Father of the Nuclear Navy, “would like to interview you in Washington D.C.,” you know, “Would —you—would you like to go?” So they sent me to—first, let’s go back up. Before I went there, they—they told me I was going for an interview. So they showed me the school—so they sent me down here as promised for the trip down here, so I went to the trip in Orlando, and it was great. [Walt] Disney World—they took us to Disney World and showed us—the Nuclear Power School, by the way, was in Orlando, at that time, okay? Just up the road here, by Bennett Drive. Um, so they showed me the school, and it was like 80 degrees. It was really nice. They hooked me in, so I’m like, I’d like to go there. It was—it was an academic job, because, you know, I liked teaching, and it was an academic job, and, you know, I would get paid a lot more there as a graduate student, than as a graduate student. So, uh—so I said, “Okay. It sounds good to me.” So then I went to Washington D.C., uh, for an interview, and, uh, one thing you got to understand that in that the nuclear—in the nuclear program, it’s kind of a select program, and that the admiral that is in charge—the four-star admiral is about as high as you can go in the Navy. He interviews all the applicants, you know, that—that—that come into the program, and so you go there for a day of tests. Take a bunch of written tests, oral exams. They ask all kinds of physical questions, and—and then they ask how to explain things and they do that, and at the end, you go see Admiral Rickover—Hyman Rickover. So I go into this guy’s office, and he’s a four-star admiral, and he’s sitting in a chair. Very little man, probably 5’5”, uh, white grey hair, he was about 78, at the time, and, uh, he—so I sat down. I had long hair, I was a graduate student, I had no inkling of military at all in me. So I sat down, and, uh, the Admiral says to me, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me and the Admiral says to me— um, I had an American Chemical Society pin on me, right? So the Admiral says to me, “Wha—what’s that? What’s that pin on your, uh, lapel there?” So I took it off and I said, “Well, um, this means I’m a member of the American Chemical Society.” And he jumped at me, and he says to me like this—he says, “Let me see that blicity pin.” ‘Kay? I don’t want to put any expletives on this tape, but he—but, uh, he said, uh, um, “Let me see that pin.” so I put it in his hand, and—and he said—looked at me in the eye—and he goes, “How do you know I know more chemistry than you do? Maybe I should keep this pin.” And I said, “Admiral, if that’s the case, then you can get your own pin.” Then he threw is back at me, and then he says, uh, “Did any of the girls tell you that you were good-looking?” I said, “Sure. All the time.” He says, “That’s a proposition. You don’t even know the facts of life. Get out of my office.” So this was my interview with a four-star admiral. So I said, Well, I dunno. I guess I didn’t get that job. So I Walked down the hall, and this captain, that[sic] went in there with me, said, “Congratulations. The Admiral selected you to be an instructor at Nuclear Power School.” So I said, “Great.” so I signed up, finished my—my dissertation for my Master’s degree, and then I, uh—I came down to Orlando. Went—went to some school—uh, Officer School—Officer Indoctrination School, and then I came to Orlando in 1978. I was commissioned in March of 1978, I believe, and, um, —then I, Um, uh, came to or—Orlando in May. Went—went to some—in the school—I went to the school in between then about six weeks. So I—I arrived down here in like May of 1978—in Orlando, and I spent the next four and a half years here. Hiltz Uh, what was your officer, uh, training like? Rogers It wasn’t the standard training that—that you’d normally get. It’s kind of like training—‘cause we weren’t expected to stay in the Navy. We were expected to go in for our four, you know—our—our—our four-year promise, and then leave, Right? So it was very watered down, so to speak. It was not very rigorous as some—some. It was like the same training lawyers get, the doctors get, and—and nurses, the—the professional, you know—the training the professionals gets. It’s [inaudible] how do you—how you act like an officer, and—and, you know—so nothing—nothing too, uh, exotic. Hiltz Uh, what was your family and friends; reaction to you becoming a commissioned officer? Rogers Well, that was funny, because my father was enlisted and he—he had some grumbling about officers. He goes, “I remember—I remember this officer made me salute him.” He goes, “He was a big jerk. I hope you’re not like that.” So [laughs]—so he was a little—he was proud, but yet, he was saying, you know, you gotta be a little humble, you know, when you’re doing this stuff too. So—But I think he was proud that—that I went in there, you know, and—and did it. So, like I said, I had no— I just did it, because hey, it was great. I wanted to go teach and the Navy’s got this job to go teach, you know? I said, I’m not staying in. I said, Honest, no way I’m staying, you know? So then I did my four years. I taught thermodynamics, I taught nuclear physics, you know, regular classical physics, I taught chemistry, radiological—all the stuff, and the thing about that Nuclear Power School: they—they teach you how to teach a class, you know? They teach you how to talk to people, how to make eye contact, how to go back and forth and relate information. I still carry that—that talent to this day, with how they taught me how to do that. So, it was really—it was really good. So I really had—it was the best job of my life. I mean, it was, you know, basically, a day job. No deployment—nothing. It was great for four years. You know, unfortunately, you know, after four years, they want you to leave, ‘cause in the Navy, you get to move up or you move out. So—so that’s what happened. Hiltz ‘Kay. So, uh… Rogers [sniffs]. Hiltz What happened after those four years? Rogers Well, after four years, normally, you get out, right? And this was right at the height of the Cold War, ‘round 19—it was around 1982, and they needed people with engineering background—not necessarily ship driving experience, but with some engineering background, and some knowledge of chemistry, physics—To work on shipyards, to help when the ships—Submarines come in [sniffs]. They help the submarines get ready for sea, and—and fix them, and things like that—to oversee that. So they asked if, you know, I would like to go do that, and I said, “Eh, I’ll think about it,” and then they said, “Would you like to go to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and do it?” [laughs]. So I said, “Hm. Okay. I’ll—that sounds good to me.” So I did—I went into what is called the “Engineering Duty Officer Program,” so I went in—which is basically engineering. I—I was very restricted, because I’m colorblind. Eh, when I took my physical, I was actually—they determined that I was colorblind, so I could not drive a ship. So I was restricted as to what I could do. So, I mean—but I could do the engineering stuff, so I was—I became a Restricted Line Officer, which means you don’t drive the ships, but you can do a lot of other things naval officers do. So—so I did that. I was—I went to Submarine School after that, I went to Engineering Du—Duty Officer School, and Nuclear Ship Superintendent School, which show you—show you how to manage repairs of a ship. Not that I would do the repairs myself, but I oversee the people doing it, right? And interface with the ship, as a—as a representative from the Navy to get[?] that, and I did that for about—about, uh, three years, right? And then—it was okay, but it wasn’t teaching. I really wanted to teach. Um, so what—what I did after that time is: I—I—I got out of the Navy in 1986, but I stayed in the [Naval] Reserves, uh, as a—as a[sic] Engineering Duty Officer. Oh, also, on that time while I was on active duty, I got my Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins, which is, you know specialized in submarine repair, and then, after that, um, I got out of the Navy and tended my resignation, but I stayed on—I stayed in the Reserves, and then, I came down to, uh—went down to, um, South Florida. I took a job at a nuclear power plant. I was an instructor, right? Teaching down there, and I stayed in the Reserves, and I drilled for the next 12 years. I—I drilled, uh—drilled my—my—from Jensen Beach, which is about 130 miles from here, to Orlando. I drilled every week—once every week—and two weeks a year, and I—I went up through the chain there, [inaudible], and got my rank there, up to—and made Commander in the Reserves in 1994. Hiltz Uh, what, uh—what was your schooling like, when you were going through the Submarine and Engineering [Duty Officer] Schools—Oh, um, when you were still in the active? What was that like? Rogers Oh, that was, uh—it wasn’t—I mean, it was okay. It was a—was a—it was kinda challenging, because, Uh, you had to—you had to go and know—know how to—and they put you in a room, and they start leaking the pipes, and, you know, you gotta, you know, repair the pipe, so you don’t drown and stuff like that, and then, you know that—you learn a little bit about navigation and how to—how to basically, uh, go through it. I was a little bit senior. I was a Lieutenant when I went through, and most of them were ensigns that[sic] went through there, but, Uh, you know, it was basically how to respond to emergencies on submarines, and then, you know, dive the ship up and down. I was able to do that[?]. I did a—I was able to surface the ship and dive the ship. I did that several times on the simulator and—and in real life— in a real submarine. You know, and one thing that I did not—I neglected to mention is that I was on a submarine for two months, as part of my qualification program. So I was on the Nathan Hale, and we went out—and I can’t tell you where we went—but we went out somewhere in the ocean, and we had missiles on the ship. Uh, we—that was a deterrent patrol that I had to go through to get my qualification, you know, to do that. Hiltz Yeah. Rogers So—and then—then that’s [inaudible]. Nuclear Ship Superintendent School is very technical. It was like how to ma—manage radiation. The Navy is very sensitive to—to nuclear safety and the shipyards have to be—everything perfect. So they want people who are going to follow the rules and know what they’re doing. So they send us to special school to—to kinda—to kinda help us understand how to manage this[sic] nuclear, uh, projects at the shipyard. Hiltz Uh, what, uh— was your, uh—the submarine’s class? Do you—do you know? Rogers Yes, it’s a—it’s a—it was an SSBN [Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines]. It was a ballistic nuclear submarine, uh, it’s since, has been way since decommissioned. It was a pretty old ship, when I was on it Um, so it carried x number of missiles, and, uh, I ‘m not sure if that is classified anymore, but it’s so many missiles, and what we did was just go out there and wait—wait for launch orders, which, thankfully, never came. So I never really fought in hot war, but I was in the Cold War, which kinda was preventing the big war [laughs]. So… Hiltz Um, what was it like—what was life like on the submarine? Rogers Um, it was very, uh, interesting. It was kind of lonely. Uh, Now, I knew I was only going to be on it for like one patrol, so it was okay, you know? It was interesting. Got to do some—some interesting things, but, for the most part, you really eat a lot. They have—they have—you can eat up to four times a day. It’s just like a cruise ship, but you work [laughs], right? So you have breakfast, you have lunch, you have dinner, and then you have MIDRATS [Midnight Rations] at night, depending on your shift. They always got meals going on in a submarine, so you can eat, eat, eat, and I actually gained 15 pounds, you know, on the submarine, you know? So it was a—it was a bit of a weight curve, trying to get the weight off [laughs], but, uh, you know, it was good. I got the up and down—A lot of stuff in the submarine, you don’t know everything, because a lot of it’s classified, like what they targeted—the stuff—I couldn’t see that. So I never knew where we really were at. So it was all a part of, you know—it was kind of a tense time, with the Cold War. We were in secret locations and stuff like that. Hiltz Uh, what was the crew like? Rogers Crew was good. I mean, they were—they knew I was a short-timer, so they—they kidded me around a little bit, and—and—‘cause they knew. They called me the “rider.” You know, and they said, “You’re just in your rack all day. That’s all you do. You don’t do real work.” but they were kinda—they were in a kidding type of way, right? And I was called—they called me the “assistant engineer.” So I—I—I oversee some training lessons and did stuff like that for them, but I stood the watch. You know, on the submarine ship, you stand a watch, you’re—you’re good, because, uh, somebody else doesn’t have to stand the watch for diving officer. I did that. So, uh… Hiltz Uh, what was your time in Hawaii like? Rogers Oh, it was great. It was, uh, beautiful—the most beautiful places on Earth. It’s, uh—nice mountains, and the job was pretty stressful—getting the ships out—because, like I said, this is the height of the Cold War, and the ships came in. they had to get repaired in a certain window, Because there are only so many submarines out there. One comes in, and, uh, they only got coverage for a certain amount. So you gotta get that ship out on time, and if it’s not on time—not out on time, some people up high up don’t get too happy about that. So we gotta make sure that everything’s done timely and safely. So not only—and we just couldn’t—since it’s a nuclear submarine—First of all, nuclear submarines can be hazardous in themselves, and you got reactors on ‘em, and you gotta be extra special careful with respect to nuclear safety, and so sometimes, some things take a little longer than you might anticipate. So, uh, you always have that—you always have that bal—and I was in charge, so if the ship was late, it was on me. You know, I had to answer for it. So... Hiltz Uh, did, uh—did you ever have any incidents happen, during that time? Rogers Well, yeah. Um, I was on one submarine. When—when I was in the shipyard, we occasionally had to go out ride submarines when—after repairing them, and then one of the hydraulic plants went on fire. So it was a submarine underwater, and it was on fire, but the crew is so trained. It was like, “Okay. Fine.” Just like training—t was no different than when we had the training. We went over there, swoosh, they put it out, and then we—we went on to eat for lunch. So it was like okay. They were very seasoned, very seasoned crew. Um, the chiefs in the Navy—they really—I was an officer, but the chiefs in the Navy—they, you know—they run the show. They—they get the people to do the work, and so my admiration is for the chiefs, you know, [inaudible] folks. They’re—they’re the ones that make it happen, you know? We get the credit, most of the time. Sometimes, we get the blame, as the officers, but that’s kind of the way it is, but they’re the ones that—the enlisted guys—they’re the ones that[sic]—that[sic] make it work. So my father kind of sent me a lesson, when he said, “You’re gonna—you’re gonna be this hotshot officer, but you’re going to learn who does the work.” And I did. Hiltz Uh, do you have any, uh, moments that stand out, during your time in, um, Hawaii or Orlando? Rogers Um, well, one day, uh—well, I can say that, at the end, I—I—I made a suggestion to move the repair somewhere where it would be cheaper or a little more cost-effective, and—and still do it safely, and that—they—they actually listened to me and did it. So when I left—I don’t know how that went, but it wa—it did save some money. So that was—that was a good, good part of it, uh—good part of it, but a lot of that—I remember it was a lot of stress on that, but—but that was a good part of it, at—at—at—at the end there. So—and I would still dock ships, you know—dry docked ships that come into the shipyard, and a dry dock is: you—you—you bring a ship in, and to work on the hull of a ship, you can’t—can’t be in the water, right? So you—you put the ship on blocks, you drain the dry dock down, and then you go into the ship, and you do what you gotta do, back—and back up. Then you put the water back in, and then you float the ship out, but Putting the ship on blocks is a—a, you know—a very engineering-involved thing. So, as the docking officer, I had to do the calculations to make sure the ship would sit on the block right and stay there, and do all those calculations and stuff. Hiltz ‘Kay. Um, so, um, coming back now to, uh, your—your—how was your transition from being active duty to Reserve? Rogers Uh, not really—not really, um,—because I never had too many deployments, so I was always with my family. Like I said, I had a[sic] atypical career. I [inaudible] —I had it good, really. Um, so I didn’t have a lot—other than that one deployment, right? So when I went to Reserves, you know, I really was away from home more in the Reserves than when I was active duty, ‘cause I would have to drive to Orlando on—on the weekends, And then the two weeks a year, uh, I mean, again, I was with a lot of engineers. I had in my group, we had like PhDs, we had, you know, professional engineers. All highly, you know—highly educated people that[sic] worked for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], or worked for the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center, or whatever, and then they did the Reserves stuff, you know, on the side, ‘cause they were—they had this engineering background. So I didn’t find too much of a, uh—uh, a transition. I went from a kind of academic environment, uh, to that. Now, I had a little more experience than a lot of the Reserves, ‘cause I actually was a[sic], uh, active duty—engineering duty officer, and a lot of them just came in the Reserves. So I had a little—a little more experience actually being there. I had the qualifications for the Dolphins and stuff like that. So that helped me a little bit, you know, with getting my advancements, you know, as I—as I, you know, got promoted on. So I also had some good leaders that[sic]—that[sic] showed me the ropes in the Reserves. That—that really helped me. Hiltz Do you remember any of those? Rogers Oh, I do. I, uh—can I say their names? Hiltz Oh, yep. Rogers Or whatever? Hiltz Yeah. Rogers I remember one, uh—one key person that[sic] was a—was a, eh—he was a[sic] Admiral: Rear Admiral Steve Israel. He was, uh, a great mentor to me. Um, when I first came in the Reserves, he kinda took me under his wing, kinda showed me the—the life in the Reserves, and, uh—and we worked together. I worked within several of his units, when he was a—When I met him, he was a Commander, and then, as he went through, he became Captain, and then ultimately, he became—became an Admiral, and I still, you know, am still in contact with him, you know, to this day, but He was very, very—he was a [United States] Naval Academy graduate, very good about dealing with people, and stuff like that, and another person gr—Captain Jim Tully. I worked for him, and I took his Reserve unit when he—when he left that unit to go to another unit, I took over for him in, uh—in—for him, in that—in that capacity. So he always mentored me too, and he’s—he’s actually the Mayor of Titusville. Yeah. So [laughs]—but He’s great—he is one of the—one of the best leaders I’ve ever met, and one of the most, uh—most—talk about people—talk about people with integrity, and people in political office. Well, he’s got political office, and I don’t know anybody with more integrity than that man does have. He’s just amazing. So we still keep in touch. Yeah. So… Hiltz Do you, um—do you have any stories or memories from your—from your time in the—in the Reserves that stand out? Rogers Well, again, going back to the, you know—the enlisted people run the show. Uh, When I got—when I got command of my unit, I—I—I had a chief who was a Mensa [International]—high IQ [intelligence quotient] guy. Much smarter than I would ever be, and I asked his advice, you know, all the time, and that’s why my unit was so successful, and he helped me, give me advice on how to do things, and, you know, it went on from there. So I relied heavily on that. So I never—I never—I only made a couple of mistakes when I was a junior officer, thinking I knew it all, but that didn’t last out. Found out: the more senior I got, the less I thought I knew [laughs]. I knew more I had to rely on people that[sic] working[sic] for me. I mean, that’s the key to success. Um, and, uh—so—so that was very, very helpful. Hiltz Um, during—during the time in the Navy, um, did you, um—Um, what was—what was life like, um, in the [Ronald Wilson] Reagan years?<a title="">[2]</a> Rogers Oh, life was good. Reagan was president—in fact, I saw Reagan come in the airport in Hon—Honolulu[, Hawaii], and, uh, you know, I am a big Reagan fan. Uh, and, uh, ‘cause I, eh—we grew up to kinda get the Cold War—and one of the beautiful things was when I finally got into the Reserves, there—there—the war we were fighting, we really won it, because even though it wasn’t a hot war, the Soviet Union collapsed. We stood up to them and they’re gone. Now, they’re rattling their little sword again, but—but, at—at least at that time, they were—we—we won that. So, I mean, I liked the war. I felt like we had a strength in the nation for—for—for that, due to Reagan and the buildup—the buildup he did. I just kinda make the Russians<a title="">[3]</a>—“Well, we can’t keep up with this.” So… Hiltz Uh, how did the—the—in that case, how did the, uh—the breaking down of the Wall in Berlin[, Germany] make you feel? Rogers I thought it was great. I says[sic], “Wow. This is a great thing.” Because I grew up—when I grew up in the—in the [19]50s, the—the—I mean, I grew up during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we thought we were going to World War III. I mean, it was right—right around the corner. I mean, my father was shaking and white ashen[?], ‘cause I looked at him—well, and I was only—what? I don’t know. 11—10 years old, or something like that, and—and it’s just like—he’s shaking white. Something—something’s going on here, and—and that was the closest we’ve—we’ve ever come, right? And, um—and there were some things—even during the Cold War, there were some things that happened, which we don’t want to go into, but, you know—but, for the most part, there was peace, right? So when the—when the [Berlin] Wall came down, Reagan said, “Tear down this wall,” and it happened. So that was—that was a good thing, and then, when, uh—I would never had believed it when it happened—they said the Soviet Union collapsed. It was like, Wow. Hiltz Um, in co—and in comparison, how are the [William “Bill” Jefferson] Clinton years in the Navy? Rogers Well, uh, Clinton—I mean, to a—see, Clinton was—he— ‘90s, uh, I got my senior—I think he signed my, uh—uh, my—my, uh—my promotion to Commander, and also he signed my discharge—my—my retirement paper, uh, in ’98, right? So—so I have some good—good, uh, Um, you know—He treated, you know, the military well too, you know? He was a smart, smart guy. Uh… Hiltz Um, how were your, uh, final years in the Navy, eh, eh—in the Navy Reserves? Rogers Good. Um, I mean, it was good. Uh, I was like—I had command of the unit, and then I was traveling so much back and forth, it was like, okay, you know? I was getting up for Captain, and I just decided that was time to, you know—time to—I didn’t make Captain the first pass. So I said, “Okay.” I had another chance, but I decided, you know, to get out. Um, so I decided just to—to go spend more time at my other job. Hiltz What was your other job, at that point? Rogers Oh, I worked at a nuclear power plant, teaching chemistry, physics. The same thing I did in Nuclear Power School, right? So—right. Hiltz So what was life like after the Navy? Rogers Well, it just went from teaching for the Navy and the submarine stuff and still have the resources—so it was really—To me, it wasn’t an abrupt end. It was a, uh, gradual transition over the years, ‘cause I was, uh, in active duty for eight years, Reserves for 12. So it was kind of a long—and then I—well, during the 12 years, I had my civilian job. So I—I kinda worked the two together, you know? Worked the two together. So—and As, you know, eh—as I went through my job, and I got more senior in the Navy, more senior in the Navy, and then got up there. I mean, Commander is pretty high up, I guess. So, you know… Hiltz Um, how did the Americans actually treat you, while you were in the Navy? Rogers The who? Hiltz The Americans. The civilians. Rogers The civilians? Oh, yeah. No problem. We didn’t have that Vietnam Syndrome, where, you know—where they—they spit on me or anything like that. Uh, I think today though—I mean, I think people are more appreciative of the military today, than they were even back when—when I was in there. I did used to do some recruiting for—for, uh, the Nuclear Power School, when I was at Nuclear Power School. I went out to the West Coast, and sometimes, I didn’t get a very friendly reception by the—the people on the campus at Washington University. Over there, they didn’t quite like my presence there. So—But I think today, I—I think the American people are more—are a lot more behind the troops. A lot more than compared to Vietnam [War] and even than when I was in. I think they realize what really they do for them. Hiltz Did you have any dealings with UCF at that time? Rogers I did actually. I, uh—I took a couple of classes here in 1982, when this campus was just a few buildings. So Industrial Chemistry, I took a few courses, because I was living in Orlando, and, you know, I just—I just did that. It didn’t end up in degree—I didn’t end up in a degree. I just have the classes. I think I have like 15 credits. Um, uh, Dr. [Gerald] Mattson—I think I had him, and I think he is still here, in the chemistry department. Um, so, uh—so I had that, and, you know, we were just kinda starting out. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we—we came to UCF. She had to take an education course and sit in these little seats, you know, she could barely fit into it. It was kinda—we went together. She took a [inaudible] some education courses, and I did the chemistry stuff. So—so yeah. UCF is a little part of my time here. Hiltz Um, you mentioned your wife. Um, did you—you met her while you were in the Navy? Rogers Actually, I met my wife in Orlando, okay? Um, uh, when I was an instructor here, I worked with another instructor, and his wife worked at a school, and she knew somebody. So they set this up on a blind date, and, uh, I mean, that was it. We’re married for 34 years. Hiltz Fantastic. Um, did she go with you to, uh, Hawaii? Rogers Oh, yeah. You bet she did. Now, obviously—and, In fact, we were on the submarine. Um, they did a dependents’ cruise. Now, what a dependents cruise is: you can actually come on a submarine, right? They let the dependents come on the submarine. So she actually came on the submarine with her father, and we did, uh, some op[eration]s for them. We dove the ship, and surfaced the ship, and did all these things, and they got to eat. You know, so she comes in—she comes into the submarine. Now, on a submarine, you gotta understand: there’s a wardroom, just like this, and at the head of the table, there’s the Captain, and that’s the Captain’s chair. Nobody sits in the chair. So what does my wife do? She comes in and plops down right in the Captain’s chair, and I kinda say, “I don’t [inaudible] you need to sit there.” [laughs] So I rise her about that [inaudible], but she is probably one of the few ladies that[sic] were ever on a submarine—a nuclear submarine. Now, Of course, they are getting women into the program, but at that time, you know, she—she thought was kind of fun. So after being at sea for a little bit on the submarine, And then, I—she went off, and then shortly after that, I—I came back home. So that was—that kind of fun. Hiltz That’s fantastic. Um, um, how did the events of 9/11<a title="">[4]</a> effect you? Rogers Uh, I was pissed, right? I was really mad that we couldn’t—that something like that could happen here. Uh, and I don’t know. You can point fingers and blame, but, you know, I, eh—it—it’s just one of those things that we got to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Uh, it’s one of those—it ripped every American apart, you know, and—and including me. Now, I was actually retired already. Um, so I, um, was already done. Uh, I mean, I could have been called to active duty, but they didn’t. I’m too old already, I guess. So—so they didn’t bother, you know, calling me up, but, uh—so yeah. That was kind of… Hiltz Did you still have any, uh—were any of your friends still in the—in active… Roger Yeah, I think Captain Tully, that[sic] I talked to you about. I think he was still in at that time, and, uh, then he retired subsequently after that. So, um, yes. Hiltz Um, what was one of the most important lessons that you learned from the Navy? Rogers Uh, leadership. How to manage people and how to respect people, and just, of course, you just gotta—because you got all the stripes on doesn’t mean you know everything, and, I mean, that was the lesson my father tried to let me know before I went in there, and I did some stupid things. “Oh, I am in charge, because I’m an officer.” You know, I only did that once or twice, and then I remembered that I had better relying on the chiefs more, because they’re really the ones that really kinda know what’s going on [laughs]. So I did that. So a little humility’s a good thing. Hiltz Um, do you have any, uh, messages that you would like to tell the young people of America today? Rogers Uh, yeah, the military’s a great way to go, especially if you got some technological talent. Eh, you—that—that Navy instructor program is a great way to get in, serve your country four years. You don’t have to stay in. You can teach at the Nuclear Power School, you can teach [inaudible] people who are really willing to learn, and they have to be, and they are really good students, and you—you get to teach stuff, and you come away with some great teaching skills that, at the end of it—that you can—that you can use anywhere else, you know? So, you know, To this day, I could teach anybody off the street how—how a steam engine works and so they would understand it. So, I mean, it’s am—an amazing thing. So—so that’s—and don’t overlook that service. I mean, you know, my sons are likely not—not to go into it. I didn’t influence ‘em either way. One’s an engineer and one’s a—one’s a—a [inaudible] MBA [Master of Business Administration]. He’s got his MBA and he is a HR [human resources] manager over at Seaman’s[sp], so my sons are pretty successful, but I never influenced them to go one way or the other, but they’re proud of me that I did it. Like I said, I did not have the career that some of these guys out there. They really put their lives on the line, and I never really had to do that. I was never shot at, okay? Um, but I served my country the best I could, you know? But the guys that really—the guys that went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s just amazing how they—they sacrificed—a lot of them—just so much: their lives, limbs, and everything else. It’s just—and—and—and did it, and they get—they get something—they get like their hand shot off, and they wanna go again, and go back and do it again. It’s just, you know—how do you—how do you instill that in our youth? That—that sense of duty. You know, it’s just a great, great thing. Not that they got hurt, but that they have this, uh—this dedication, and their patriotism for their country, and to do the right thing. Hiltz Um, uh, uh, um, what, um—How did you actually end up at UCF, after, um, your time in the Navy? Rogers [laughs] Well, I, um—a granddaughter comes into that. I was, uh—worked at the nuclear plant for 25 years. I—I retired from the Reserves in ’98, right? And in 2001, I went back to school again, got a Master’s degree—another Master’s degree—online, um, for—for, uh, education—online distance learning. So I did that for about—took me about four years to get it. I got that degree in 2006. Uh, and then finally, uh—Uh, what—what was your question again? Hiltz Oh, how did you end up at UCF? Rogers Oh, yeah. Okay. So I—I graduated—after 25 years, I, you know—I retired from—I retired from FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] and I got bored, okay? So when I got very bored, um, I decided to come back to work. So my granddaughter—we had a new granddaughter that[sic] lives down in, uh, Oviedo[, Florida], here. So they—I saw this job at UCF as a Safety Training Coordinator. When I’m training, it looks good to me. So I applied for that job. I got it, so we moved down here. So my wife’s a—a full-time grandma, babysitter type, you know—help out with the kid, and I—I come here. I like my job, I’m teaching, and I got something to do. I got a sense of purpose, other than sitting at home doing nothing. Hiltz Uh, what year did you guys, uh—did you come here? Rogers Uh, June 2013. So I haven’t been here that long. I’ve only been a UCF employee about a year and a half. Uh, you know, Two years it will be in June. So… Hiltz Well, congratulations. Rogers So… Hiltz [laughs] Um, is there anything else that, uh, we missed that you would like to talk about? Rogers No, I mean, I think you about hit all on the head. I mean, it’s all—in the military, it’s all about—it’s about duty, honor, country, leadership. I mean, everybody should kind of get that experience. Well, not for everybody. It’s not for everybody, and—and I don’t know if I would have gone in, if it weren’t for the nuclear program. I don’t think I would have enrolled to just go, you know, to drive a ship. I couldn’t have anyway, because of my—my color—they wouldn’t—they wouldn’t have accepted me in anyway, but because I had some academic potentials, they used me for that, right? So the Navy kinda used me for what talents I had, and—and so, you know, anybody can do that. Yeah. So it’s a great thing. My thanks is for all the people that[sic] have gone on, and—and help, and, today, that[sic] continue to serve. Hiltz Well, uh, thank you for your time. Uh, and thank you, um, on behalf of UCF and myself, for answering our, um… Rogers Yeah[?]. Hiltz For answering our questions and having this, uh, wonderful interview. Rogers Alright. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your—your interview. Hiltz Thank you. Rogers Thank you. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Doctorate degree. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> January 20, 1981 - January 20, 1989. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Correction: Soviets. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> September 11th, 2001. </div> </div> 9/11 advanced training American Chemical Society Bennett Drive Berlin Wall Berlin, Germany Bill Clinton Bronx, New York City, New York Caribbean Crisis cold war colleges colorblindness Commander commissioned officers Community Veterans History Project Cuba Cuban Missile Crisis CVHP dependents' cruises deterrent patrols dry docks education educators Engineering Duty Officer Engineering Duty Officer Dolphin Program Engineering Duty Officer Dolphins Engineering Duty Officer School Father of the Nuclear Navy firefighting fires Florida Power & Light Company FPL Gerald Mattson Germany Hyman G. Rickover Hyman George Rickover Indiana University instructors Jensen Beach Jim Tully Killian Hiltz Lehman College mayors military education military spouses military training military wife military wives Nathan Hale nuclear power Nuclear Power Ballistic Missile Submarines nuclear power plants Nuclear Power School nuclear safety Nuclear Ship Superintendent School October Crisis Officer Indoctrination School OIS orlando Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Philip Rogers presidents Restricted Line Officer Ronald Reagan Ronald Wilson Reagan Safety Training Coordinator September 11th South Florida Soviet Union Soviets SSBN Steve Israel SU Submarine School submarines subs teachers terrorism terrorists The Missile Scare training U.S. Naval Reserve U.S. Navy UCF Union of Soviet Socialist Republics universities university University of Central Florida USS Nathan Hale USSR veterans Washington, D.C. William Jefferson Blythe III William Jefferson Clinton https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e979574868da94f6a20a3fa283e68f35.pdf 982bb5a46631a8d53dec5fa885f4f54e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection Description As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress. Contributor <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida Alternative Title CVHP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida United States. Army Army United States. Navy Navy United States. Air Force Air Force United States. Marine Corps Marine Corps Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Jacksonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Honolulu, Hawaii Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Great Lakes, Illinois Long Island, New York Newport, Rhode Island Norfolk, Virginia Germany Qaasuitsup, Greenland Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland Azores Islands, Portugal Mediterranean Sea Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Ray Sturm Alternative Title Oral History, Sturm Subject Veterans--Florida Army Description An oral history interview of Ray Sturm (b. 1963), who served in the U.S. Army from 1983 to 1989. Sturm was born in Winter Park, Florida, on October 22, 1963. He enlisted in the Army in 1983 and completed his basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Sturm then served at Herzo Base in Herzogenaurach, Germany. He served in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade and 34th Infantry Division, and achieved the rank of Sergeant. This interview was conducted by Katie Hollingsworth in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include basic training and advanced training at Fort Jackson, Herzo Base, his rank as Sergeant, Fort Stewart, the 24th Infantry Division, comradery, Sturm's interest in music, and his post-military life. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:31 Background 0:02:35 Enlistment 0:05:05 Basic training and advanced training 0:07:53 Herzo Base 0:16:58 Sergeant rank 0:22:00 Fort Stewart and the 24th Infantry Division 0:25:41 Comradery and music 0:28:26 Post-military education 0:30:44 Keeping in touch with other soldiers 0:33:05 Military's influence on life 0:35:35 Advice to current service members 0:37:07 Post-military hobbies 0:39:49 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Ray Sturm. Interview conducted by Katie Hollingsworth at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida on November 13, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 26-page digital transcript of original 42-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a>. Interviewed by Katie Hollingsworth, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016004, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Winter Park, Florida Fort Jackson, Columbia, South Carolina Herzo Base, Herzogenaurach, Hesse, Germany Fort Stewart, Georgia University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Creator Sturm, Ray Hollingsworth, Katie Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-11-13 Date Copyrighted 2014-11-13 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 362 MB 228 KB Medium 42-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording 26-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Katie Hollingsworth and Ray Sturm and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Nelson, Harold W. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">The Army</a>. Arlington, Va: Army Historical Foundation, 2001. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/465/rec/1" target="_blank">Sturm, Ray</a> Transcript Sturm And, by the way, I assume this is going to be edited? Hollingsworth No. Sturm No? Okay. Alright. Hollingsworth Okay. So Today—it is the 13th of November, 2014, and I am interviewing Dr. Ray Sturm, who served in the U.S. Army as a Sergeant in the 210th Field Artillery Brigade, 34th Infantry Division. I am interviewing Dr. Sturm as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We are recording this interview in Orlando, Florida. Hollingsworth So when and where were you born? Sturm Uh, I was born right here in Central Florida. I was born inWinter Park, uh, in [October 22,] 1963. Hollingsworth Okay, and, uh, what did your parents do for a living? Sturm Uh, my dad was a CPA [Certified Public Accountant], and my mom was a homemaker. Hollingsworth Um, how big was your family? Sturm Uh, just the three of us. Well, and… Hollingsworth Just the three of you? Sturm And my grandmother lived with us… Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm Uh, until I was about 10 years old. Hollingsworth And, um, what do you remember mostly about your childhood? Sturm Um, what do I remember mostly? Hollingsworth [laughs] Mmhmm[?]. Sturm Um, having a lot of fun [laughs], and, uh, like—you know, like we, uh, had talked about earlier, uh, actually growing up near the Navy base. Uh, we were just two blocks from the Navy base there. Um, and that kind of impacted, uh—impacted our lives a little bit. Hollingsworth And, uh, what kind of education did you receive? Sturm Well, after high school, um, and after, uh, my military service, uh, I got my Bachelor’s, uh, [degree] and Master’s [degree] from University of Central Florida. So Bachelor’s in accounting, Master’s in taxation, um, and then I received a, uh, Doctorate [degree] in finance from Florida Atlantic University. Hollingsworth Okay, and, um, before you enlisted, what did you—what sort of things did you enjoy doing? Sturm Um, I enjoyed surfing. I enjoyed surfing and I enjoyed, uh, exercising. I was a—I was always very physical. So I ran track all through high school and—and in junior high. Um, and, uh, anything that involved sports I was, uh—I was interested in doing. Hollingsworth Uh, were any of your other family members in the military? Sturm Yes. Uh, yeah. My grandfather, um, was in the Army Corps of Engineers. Um, I think he was—I think that was actually a civilian position, But he was working in that. My, uh, step grandfather was, um, actually drafted in—I believe it was the Army, and, uh, he was drafted at like 40 years old, uh, in World War II. He was not—not very happy about that, and, um, my dad was in the Air Force, Which is what brought us down here to Central Florida in the first place. Hollingsworth Ah, and, Um, how aware were you of the Cold War, before you enlisted? Sturm Um, not very. Uh, you know, obviously, uh, I knew it was going on, but, uh, you know, I enlisted at 20 years old, so I wasn’t, uh—I wasn’t, uh, all that aware of, uh—of the Cold War. I was more aware of [the Invasion of] Grenada,<a title="">[1]</a> because I went in right a—a month after that happened. So[?]… Hollingsworth Yeah, uh, what influenced you to enlist? Sturm Um, lots of things. Uh, at that time, um, uh, I was in, uh—I was in college, but I wasn’t really a student yet. So, um, you know, I was—I was still—still seeking, and really just everything, at that time, uh, uh, pointed towards the military. Um, one of the rea—one of the main reasons I did go in though was: I had always had an interest in the military. I mean, I could—I could remember, even back in elementary school, doing a book report on World War II. You know, so I had always had an interest in the, uh—in the military, um, and just kind of, you know, the, um, spirit of the American soldier, I guess you could say. Hollingsworth Hm, and, uh, why did you choose the Army? Sturm Um, because I—when I went in, um, you know—like I said, I went in for a lot of reasons. uh, and I was actually very, uh—you know, I never planned on making it a career, but I did wanna do everything that I could do while I was in. um, and I figured that, uh, if—if I went in the Marines, uh, that I was going to have to be hardcore for three years, whether I liked it or not. Um, I didn’t want to go into the Navy, because the idea of being on a ship for nine months at a time didn’t appeal to me. Um, and I didn’t want to go into the Air Force, because I—I didn’t—I wasn’t aware of some of the, uh—some of the things that you could do in the Air Force, at that time. Um, but, uh, uh, I wanted to—I chose the Army, because I thought it was a good compromise between being, uh—uh, being very hardcore and not so much. So I went in that, uh, figuring that if I really liked it, then I could go that route. Uh, if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to. Hollingsworth Okay, and, um, did your dad influence that decision at all? Sturm Nope. Hollingsworth Since he was from the Air Force? Sturm Nope. Hollingsworth Okay, but how did they react when you decided to enlist—your family? Sturm Well, my dad being a veteran, um, I—I think they were happy about it. Of course, you know, they’re concerned. You know, a parent—a, uh—a child going in the military is always a concern to the parent, but, um, I think that they were, um—I think that they were happy about it, uh, for the exact reason that it turned out, as the military, uh, um, helps you mature a lot, and you—you grow up—you grow up pretty quick. Hollingsworth Okay, and, uh, what do you remember most—what do you most remember about basic training? Sturm Um, boy, was it cold [laughs]. I went in—I was in, uh—uh, I went in November—November 9th[, 1983]. So, uh—so basic training was eight weeks, although we got, uh, Christmas exodus. So we got—I think we were out for like two weeks over Christmas, Which was very shocking to me, but, um—but it was cold. It was cold. Yeah. Hollingsworth And why was it cold? Where were you? Sturm Well, it was Fort Jackson[, Columbia], South Carolina, and, um, I did, uh, uh—I did both basic and, uh, AIT [Advanced Individual Training], uh, at Fort Jackson, uh, South Carolina. So I was there from November until probably about March [1984], I guess it would be, and, uh, you know, after I—after I went on from that, you know, I was—I was in Germany. You’ll probably be getting to that, but I was in Germany, uh, and we’d go to the field in the snow and all that kind of stuff, but the coldest day I’ve ever spent in my life was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, um, out on the artillery range. Hollingsworth Did you receive any advanced training? Sturm Uh, well, just from my job. Ju—just from my job. I—I had wanted to, um—I wanted to go into [Army] Special Forces. Uh, and, uh, kinda—I—I ran into a lot of red tape, uh, start—starting with the fact that, if I had gone that route, I wouldn’t have been able to enlist for another year, and I really couldn’t wait that long, so I went in hoping that I would get in that route. Um, Things didn’t work out like that, but, uh, um, so I just—the—the, uh—really, the only advanced training I had was from my job. Hollingsworth Can you tell me more about your job? Sturm Um, I was in logistics. I was in supply, and, um, uh, so, you know, again, I took that at—at Fort Jackson, and, uh, one of the things that I—I learned about that in there is when you watch this—particularly like the old World War II movies—uh, you know, you see the stereotypical Supply Sergeant, you know, with the hat cocked back and the little, you know… Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm Cigar sticking out of their mouth[sic]. Um, and that’s not—that’s not the way it is. Um, and, especially these days, ‘cause, with computers, they have everything really, uh, locked down. Back then, uh, you could still do some wheeling and dealing, because things weren’t as, uh—as accountable as they are now. When I say “things,” I mean the supplies themselves. It wasn’t as easy to account for them then, but one of the things that—that, uh—that surprised me about that job is: eh, we took the, um—we took the, uh, combat role—not that we saw any combat—but we took that very seriously, because if you think about it, when the enemy attacks, what’s one of the first things they attack? It’s the supply line. So, go—you know, going into supplies sounds like, you know, I guess, wheel and deal… Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm And smoke cigars, but it’s actually a little more—a little more serious than that. So… Hollingsworth And, uh, what was it like going overseas? You mentioned Germany earlier. Sturm Yeah, yeah, and that was my—that was my first time overseas. Um, you know, again, I was 20 years old, at the time, uh, uh, but it was—it was a little overwhelming, and, uh, I remember, uh—I remember when I first got there, uh, I flew into Frankfurt[, Hesse, Germany], and I was stationed about two hours south of Frankfurt. So I think—I think there were about a half dozen of us or so that were in the van. Um, and as we made our way down there, they’d drop off one by one, and, of course, I was the last one. But, um, when—when he dropped me off—I’ll—I’ll never forget—When he dropped me off at my duty post, it was just a small air base. So you could walk from the front gate to the back gate in about five minutes, and, um, when he dropped me off, it was an overcast day, cold, and I had no idea where to go, and he spoke no English whatsoever [laughs]. So all he could do was point to this building, and, uh, so I walked in the building and just kind of found my way from there, but, um, uh, that was my initial, uh—initial experience going overseas. Uh, going overseas, uh, in some ways, really formed, uh, a lot of the values that I have today. So I don’t know how in depth, uh, you meant that question to be. Hollingsworth No, that’s okay. Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth Tell me more about it. Sturm Yeah, um… Hollingsworth How it impacts you today. Sturm Well, you know, it was a completely different culture, you know? And I—I had, uh—I had never experienced anything like that before. Um, I remember when we were, uh, in process. Because when—when you get in country, uh, for, um—I think we went through two weeks of, um, kind of an indoctrination on the German culture, you know? And again, at that time, it was East [Germany] and West Germany. So we were in, we were—we were in West Germany. Um, [laughs] they—they would actually hire a local. Uh, it was a German, uh—a Germany lady that came in, and she was just, you know, teaching us basic German phrases and things like that. Um, the very first thing she taught us was “Ein bier, bitte.” So “one beer, please,” of course, but one—one of the first things that really jumped out at me about being overseas was, uh, one of the military personnel’s telling us, uh, um, basically, to, uh, uh, be good boys while we were over there, because at—I don’t know if it’s still this way—but, at the time, there was no such thing as police brutality. Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm So, uh, you know—so the polizei tell you to do something, you do it, ‘cause there is no police brutality over there [laughs]. Hollingsworth So, um, could you tell me more about what you did in Germany? Sturm Uh, well, that’s when I was with the 210th Field Artillery Brigade. Um, I was working in the, uh—working in the, uh, supply area over there. So, um, We were stationed—I was stationed at a little place called Herzo Base, which is near Herz—Herzogenaurach[, Bavaria], Germany, which is near Nuremberg, which is where they had the war trials, uh—The German war trials. <a title="">[2]</a> Um, uh, and the air base that I was at was actually an old Luftwaffe, uh, base, and it was right on the hilltop, uh, and where we were stationed, uh, as it was told to me—it’s a pretty interesting story, because, you know, obviously, there’s a[sic] air field out there, but apparently, during World War II, it was a secret air base. So what they would do is: they would, uh—when they weren’t, uh, using it, they would flood the field. So from the air, it would just look like a lake, and then when they—when they wanted to, uh—when they wanted to, uh, use it, then they would drain it, of course, and take off, and land, and do whatever it is that they needed to do. Uh, but the one thing that was kind of, uh, eerie over there was that, um: we had, uh, lots of underground passages, and they were all padlocked shut, and, uh, the rumor was—I don’t—I don’t know if it was true or not—but the, uh—the rumor was that there was, um—actually, in some of them, uh, supposedly, there were some old World War II planes down there, but, uh, they were concerned that some things had been booby-trapped, so apparently, the—all of that was flooded. Hollingsworth Hm. Sturm And, uh, of course, we, uh—we never went down there, but, um—but, like I say, I was there—I was there for 18 months, Uh, um, in the uh Headquarters. It’s called “Headquarters [and] Headquarters Battery.” Hollingsworth Um, I read in your biographical data sheet that you would go on alert and get ready for battle. What was that like? Sturm Yeah, yeah, and that was something, uh—yeah. At that time, um, one-fifth of the entire Army was stationed in Germany. Um, and alerts were something that we did take seriously over there, and, um, uh, when we, uh—when we went on alert, then, within about two hours, uh, we had to be ready to go. So we were—where I was stationed, I believe it was—I believe we were only about like two hours from the Czech [Republic] border, um, but yeah. When we went on alert, we would have to be, uh, ready to go, and being in supply, we were in charge of all the, uh—all of the, uh, weapons. So we had to first issue everybody their weapons, and then all of the ammunition and everything. We had to pack up in the trucks, um, and be ready to go, and we went on alert probably about once a month or so. Sometimes, we would actually pull out and go somewhere, and sometimes it would just be a drill. We’d load up the trucks and then unload them, but yeah. That was something we took seriously over there. Hollingsworth Um, what do you remember most about your service in Germany? Sturm Um, [sniffs], uh, a couple of things. One, uh—speaking of alerts, one was: we, uh—we had an incident—I believe it was with Libya—where we shot down a couple of, uh, Libyan jets. Um, and when that happened, everybody across the—across the globe went on—went on alert. So I remember that, and also, about a month before I left, there was a terrorist attack at the Frankfurt Airport. Hollingsworth Hm. Sturm And, uh, they bombed the, uh—they bombed the Frankfurt Airport. Um, so, uh, uh, that and like, say, the alerts, and, uh, some concerts that I saw over there. I —n fact, I saw the very last concert of Van Halen with, uh, David Lee Roth. Hollingsworth Oh [inaudible]. Sturm That was their 1984—their 1984 tour [laughs]. Hollingsworth Yeah[?]. Wow[?], that’s very lucky. Sturm Yep, I saw them [coughs]. Hollingsworth How did you keep in contact with people back at home, while you were in Germany? Sturm Yeah, that’s not like it is today. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm I mean, that was, um—it was either mail or phone calls. Um, the mail would take probably a week, and I had a girlfriend back here, at the time, um, and, uh, uh, mail would take about a week, and phone calls were hard, because the only option really, um, was the payphone. So you had to really [inaudible]. I had to write, you know, and say “Hey. Next Sunday I’ll call you at three o’clock.” [laughs], and, uh, that’s pretty much, uh,—that’s pretty much, uh, how the communication went, so it was, uh—it was, uh, difficult. I did, uh—when I was in Germany, I did, uh, come home for a month on leave from over there, and that was actually part of the reason why. Hollingsworth Hm. Sturm But—yeah. Hollingsworth Um, could you tell me about a typical day in Germany for you? Sturm Um, yeah, we’d get up, and, uh, you know—by the way, you were asking me about one of the, uh—one of my memories from Germany. Um, I was a Florida boy, so that was the first time I’d seen snow. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And, um, what I—I—I remember two things about that. One was, um, uh, much to my surprise, it’s actually warmer when it snows… Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Than when it doesn’t snow, and that was very surprising to me, ‘cause the coldest days over there was when it didn’t snow at all, but, um, another time, uh—another time, uh, uh, I was walking from—from supply—from where I worked over to the mess hall for lunch, which was only about, uh—I don’t know—about maybe 400 feet or—well, it was probably longer—probably about 200 yards. You know, it wasn’t that far away, but it was cold that day and I had on—I had on everything I owned Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm And by the time I got there, I was ready to get inside, but, um, uh, those were—those were two things, uh, that I remember from over there, but, typical day: we’d get up, um, we would have, um, uh, uh—we’d have PT—physical training—at six o’clock. So that’d be our—be our morning formation, uh, make sure everybody was there. Uh, we’d do our—we’d do our exercises, Go for a run, so forth and so on. Uh, and then come back, uh, go get something to eat, and then our next formation was at 8:30 or 8:45. Um, so we’d get our, you know, briefing for the day. Whatever it is that we were going to do, um, and then we’d go to work, uh, um, which, usually, at least one day a week for us involved going on a supply run down to Nuremberg. So I learned how to—how to drive a truck, how to back up a truck with just two side mirrors and towing a trailer. Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm In a deuce and a half truck. Um, so, you know, we’d—we’d work all day, and then, uh, we’d have our, um, uh, evening formation. We’d have it about 5:45, and then they would lower the flag at five, and, uh, that was a—that was a typical day. Hollingsworth The whole[?] day? Sturm Mmhmm. Hollingsworth Um, could you tell me how—how you became a Sergeant? Sturm Uh, well, I had some college when I went in, in the first place. Like I said, I was only in for three years, so when I enlisted, I was already a, uh, PFC [Private First Class]. So I—I went in as an E[nlisted Rank]-3. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Um, when I—after—After basic and AIT, when I was sent, uh, uh, to Germany, uh, as soon as I got there, the Sergeant, uh, immediately put me in for promotion to E4, uh—Spec[ialist] 4. So I was, uh—I don’t recall how long it took for that to go through. Probably a month or two. So I had a head start, because I had had some college. Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm So they, uh—um, when I was back here at Fort Stewart, uh, for my last year, uh, they promoted me to Sergeant about six months before I got out. Hollingsworth [inaudible]. Sturm I think part of that—yeah. I think part of that plan was to try to get me to, uh, reenlist. Hollingsworth [inaudible] [laughs]. Sturm Which—yeah. It didn’t work. Hollingsworth They do that. Sturm [laughs]. Hollingsworth Um, what did you do as a Sergeant? Sturm Um, well, then, Uh, I—as a, um—as a private and as a specialist, you pulled a lot you know—you pulled a lot. You pulled the guard duty stuff, you pulled the, you know—the KP [kitchen patrol], uh, that kind of stuff. When I became a Sergeant, um, then I was on the other side of that. so I was, you know, instead of—instead of being on the guard duty, I’d, you know—once a month or so, I’d be the NCO [non-commissioned officer] in charge at the barracks, ‘cause—‘cause, at night, at five o’clock, when everybody gets off, um, you had to have a, uh, Sergeant and a, uh—and a, uh, non-NCO that[sic] would be on duty for the whole night, you know, in case something happened. So, uh, then I became more in the management… Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm I guess you could say. Yeah. With, uh, zero leadership training, at the time [laughs]. Hollingsworth Did that change overtime? Did you develop some sort of leadership, after a while? Sturm Well, I—it was only six months. Like I said, I was promoted six months before I’d got out. So, um—yeah. You know, I learned a few things, But, uh, really the, eh—not ‘til later. Not ‘til after I got out and I reflected on, um,—I—I don’t want to say mistakes that I’ve made—just, um, inexperience, you know? And, uh, reflecting on them later is when they really paid dividends, but yeah. I really didn’t have enough time left in my enlistment to, uh… Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Learn a lot of lessons. Although, they did—they did—they tried to, uh, get me to reenlist to go to Warrant Officer [Candidate] School. Hollingsworth Interesting[?]. Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth And, um, you said no. Why? Sturm Uh, well, first of all, I had never, um—I, you know—I had never intended on making the military a career. Um, but also, you know, I was in a—in a, uh—in a really tough time, because I was in from 1983 to 1986. Um, and that was just, Uh, you know—that was just—what? Ten years after the end of the draft and eight years after the end of Vietnam [War], and I guess it would be three years after the failed, um, Iran hostage rescue.<a title="">[3]</a> So, you know, when I was in, you know, the, um, you know—the military was really beaten down. The, uh, bu—uh, a lot of the equipment we had was left over from Vietnam. Um, a lot of the good soldiers—particularly in the NCO ranks—a lot of the good soldiers, uh, had retired after Vietnam, and right in the, uh—at the end of the [19]70s, um, uh, you know, Cart—during the [James “Jimmy” Earl] Carter[, Jr.] administration, the—the—the defense budget had really been cut to almost nothing, you know? So the equipment wasn’t being updated, uh, you know, because of the budget cuts. The good soldiers were getting out. You know, they weren’t reenlisting. They weren’t able to attract good, uh, recruits, but then, you know, when [Ronald Wilson] Reagan came in in ‘80, he spent basically all of the ‘80s building all of this back up. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Um, but I was in kind of at the beginning of that, and, you know, in retrospect, I—I, you know—again, at 20 years old, I didn’t really understand this, at the time, but, um, you know, in retrospect, uh, what he was doing was he was putting a lot of his, uh—a lot of the, uh, defense budget money—particularly in the early years—into modernizing the equipment. You know… Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm The Stealth Bomber,<a title="">[4]</a> the [M1] Abrams Tank, that kind of stuff. Um, so it wasn’t really going into training yet. Hollingsworth Right. Sturm And that didn’t really kick in, until later in the ‘80s, and, uh, it paid dividends, as we saw in [Operation] Desert Storm, you know, in—in ‘91—I guess it was—Or 1990—‘91.<a title="">[5]</a> Whatever that was. Uh, it paid dividends then. Um, So I just—I—I didn’t, um—uh, I didn’t, you know—I wanted to go in. Um, I—I wanted to, uh, you know, experience the lifestyle. I, you know—I—I had—I had, uh, um, you know, admired what the—what the American soldier stood for, you know? And I wanted to go and experience that, but I never intended on making it a career, and when I got in there, um, you know, we weren’t—we weren’t really doing a whole heck of a lot of training, at that time. So I just wanted to get out and move on. Hollingsworth Yeah. Sturm So… Hollingsworth Uh, so what did you do when you came back to Orlando? Sturm Um, I went back to school. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Yeah, I had had some, uh—uh, I had, uh, um, almost two years of college before I went in. Uh, I came back. I finished, uh—finished up my AA [Associate of Arts], um, and then got the Bachelor’s, uh got the CPA, uh, and, you know, so forth and so on. Hollingsworth And, um, did you do any service in Orlando? Or was it straight from Germany back to—you were done, after Germany? Sturm No, no, after Germany—I spent, uh, 18 months in Germany. Hollingsworth Right. Sturm A year and a half in Germany, and then, I was sent to Fort Stewart, Georgia, for my last year. So I spent my last year… Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm In Fort Stewart, Georgia, um, which is where I was with the 24th Infantry Division. Hollingsworth Can you tell me more about… Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth [inaudible]. Sturm That would be [laughs]—yeah. Um, yeah. If I’d have known how good I had it in Germany… Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm I would have stayed there [laughs], because, uh, the—one of—one of the things that I didn’t appreciate is that, over in Germany, um, you know, we all wanted to travel, You know, which—by the way, is[sic] some other memories I have of Germany—is doing something with traveling over there. Um, but, you know, we all wanted to travel, including the Officers, you know? Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm So they wanted to get off on a Friday and, you know—and go travel, as well. Well, at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there’s not really a whole heck of a lot to see. So, uh, there wasn’t—wasn’t much to do, except sit on post and work [laughs], but, uh—but the thing about it: I was with the 24th Infantry—and this was actually, um, I believe, part of, uh, Reagan’s, uh modernization—is we were actually a rapid deployment force there. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm So we were, uh—we were, um, uh, trained so that, within two hours’ notice, uh, we could go anywhere in the world, uh, and be there within 24 hours, and ready to go. Um, one of the things that we did, uh—eh, even though there wasn’t a lot of training going on, at that time—One of the things we did do, um, was, every year, the unit would go out into the, uh, [Fort Irwin & the] National Training Center, out in the, uh, Mojave Desert and, uh, do desert training, which, uh, came into play in, uh, Oper—in, uh, Desert Storm. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Because, uh, when that kicked off, of course, in the deserts of, uh, Iraq and Kuwait, uh, the 24th Infantry Division—my old unit—was, uh—played a—played a pretty key role in that, uh—in that, uh, campaign. Uh, be—Again, because we had—we—we—we’d get a desert, every year. In fact, uh, when—the year I was in with them, we went to the Mojave, but the year before that, uh, they actually went to the Sahara Desert and trained for a month over there. Hollingsworth Were you happy you didn’t have to go anywhere near there? Sturm Yes. Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm Yeah. I felt bad, uh… Hollingsworth [inaudible]. Sturm When—when we were in the—when we were in the Mojave, we were there from mid-July to mid-August. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And, uh, unlike being cold in Germany, it was hot. Hollingsworth Oh[?]. Sturm Out there, and, uh, I really felt and I have a lot of respect for the soldiers, uh, in the, uh—in Desert Storm. Because, uh, they were, you know—that kicked off in January[, 17, 1991], and I—I can’t help but think that there was—the time of that was the cooler weather, but I remember seeing on TV. I remember seeing, uh, video of them training in the summer, and ‘cause one of the things they were worried about was the, uh—was gas attacks. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And I remember seeing them in the summer, running around in the middle of the desert in full chemical suits, and I don’t know that I could have done that in my best day. I have a lot of respect for those guys, because we used wear those chemical suits. They have, uh, charcoal in them, and, um, uh, we used to wear those thing to stay warm in snow, and they were running around in those things in the summer, over in, uh—over in Kuwait, getting ready for that, and, uh—I don’t—I don’t—I do not know how they did it. So yes. I’m glad I—I’m glad I was not part of that [laughs]. Hollingsworth [laughs] And, um, Between Germany and your service in Georgia and South Carolina, what was your, uh, most—most—most memorable about your time in the service? [sniffs]. Sturm Oh, my gosh. Um, I think the comradery, as—as cliché as that may sound. Hollingsworth No. Sturm It’s actually very true, because, uh, you know, especially in your training—and particularly, in basic and AIT—you know, there’s kind of an us-against-them, you know, mentality, because, you know, they’re, you know—part of basic training, uh, you know, as they tell you—which is true—is, you know, they gotta break you down to build you up, you know? Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm So, um, you know—so we were, you know—we were really banding together to survive, uh—to survive that, and then, you know, even in the units, uh, you know, you build up a comradery with, uh—with, you know, your friends, and they’re the people you work with, Um, and, uh, you know, which carries over into going out at night, you know? Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm You know, uh, Going out, you know, and, uh, doing your thing, but when you’re, you know—when you’re going out with, uh, you know, 12 brothers, you know, and you would trust any of them with your life, um, that’s—that’s, uh—That’s a rare connection, and that’s what—that’s what I miss the most and that’s—that—and that’s what I remember. That’s what I remember the most. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. You remember the people. Sturm Yeah, yeah. Like I say, uh—like I say, the, uh—comradery. Hollingsworth Ah [laughs]. Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth Um, what did you do during your free time? Sturm Um, well… Hollingsworth Travel? Sturm Did some—no. I did some growing up. Hollingsworth Ah. Sturm I did some growing up. I, um—‘cause I was, uh—when I went in, you know, I was in my party phase. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And, uh, you know, especially, when I hit[?] to Germany. Uh, Oktoberfest [laughs], uh “Ein bier, bitte?” Uh… Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm You know, that whole thing. Um, my first—my first six months in Germany, when I wasn’t, uh—when I wasn’t working, I was, uh, trying to sample every beer that, uh, Germany ever made. Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm Um, and after about six months, you know, I—I woke up, uh—I woke up one day, and realized that I had been there six months, and I had nothing to show for it, you know? And about that same time—I’d, uh—I’d—I had been a musician my whole life—and about that time, I kinda was, uh, re—uh, uh, re-interested in music, and, um, I actually, uh, started, uh—started playing music again. So I started—I kinda[?]—I really, you know—I quit the partying, um, and I would spend a lot of time playing music. In fact, uh, the first band I ever played in my life was over there Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Was over there,in German, Which would be—qualify as another memory from over there [laughs]. Um, uh, But I—but that’s what I did. I kinda, you know, like I said, grew up a little bit, uh, got over the partying thing, and started, uh, laying the groundwork for the future. Hollingsworth There you go, and, um, when you came back—right when your service ended—what was it like? Sturm Uh, it was a tremendous sense of freedom. Hollingsworth [laughs]. I bet. Sturm Uh, well, you know, when you’re a soldier, uh, the government owns you 24-7, 365, and, um, uh, you know, when, you know, we—Up in Fort Stewart—and Germany, for that matter, but, uh—you know, in Fort Stewart, uh, you know, we’d go to the field a month at a time, so you—I mean, you’re there for a month, you know? Um, and it—It was the freedom getting out, and, uh, you know, I was—I was used to, you know—for three years, I had—I had woken up every morning at 5:30 or so, and exercised at six, and, uh, I, you know—I was determined to continue doing that, which lasted about two weeks [laughs]. Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm But, uh, big, big, big sense of freedom Hollingsworth Ah. Sturm Yep. Hollingsworth And [inaudible]. Sturm And pride. Hollingsworth [inaudible]. Sturm Oh, yeah. I was proud of what I did, um, Even though, you know, at that time, uh, you know—at that time, we really weren’t heralded, uh, as heroes, like the soldiers are now, and rightfully so, ‘cause like, you know—like I say, it was, you know—it was only about 10 years after Vietnam Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And everybody was kind of over the military. They—they were—they were tired of hearing about it, and they really, you know—They just really didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Yep. Hollingsworth Oh. When you left the military, did you—I know you went back and did your education—but did you work at all, while you were doing that? Or did you just go straight into school? Sturm Uh, no, ‘cause I got out, uh—I got out in November, so I got out November 8th[, 1989], um, and I enrolled for the, uh—for the spring semester the following January [1990]. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Um, so yeah. I did, you know—I did work, but my main focus was on school. Hollingsworth School? Sturm Yeah, and that was—that was part of the growing up—‘cause that’s part of the growing up in the military, but also, when I was in, I—I had the, um—I had the, uh, v[eterans’] benefits, which was the—the successor to the G.I. Bill.<a title="">[6]</a> So I actually, um—I actually earned college money… Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm That, uh—while I was in there—while I was there. Yeah. When—when I was in Germany, I tried to take a college class over there. That didn’t work out too well. Hollingsworth Right[?]. Sturm But—no. So when—when I got out, I was—I was, uh—I was pretty head strong on going back to finishing school. Hollingsworth That’s good. Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth Um, did you keep in touch with any of the people you served with? Sturm I did not, until, um, uh, really, just a couple years ago, and it was, uh, primarily, uh, thanks to Facebook, but, um, I’ve, uh—I’ve actually only, uh—well, I take that back, because there was one guy down in Tampa. Uh, uh, my roommates in, uh—in, uh, Fort Stewart—one of them lived in Tampa, the other was from Virginia, and I did—right after I got out, I kept—kept in touch with them a little bit, but, um, I actually really didn’t keep in touch with anybody, until, uh, one of my best friends from Germany, um—we had a, uh—we had a reunion, uh—uh, I guess it was—eight—nine months ago. Him[sic] and his family were coming through town here to go on a cruise, and, uh, that was the first time I had seen him in, uh—in 20 years, and, uh—and, uh, we had a—we had a good chat about the—about those times, and It was interesting to me, becau—because, it was, you know—I had my perspective, but it was interesting to me to get someone else’s perspective on the same experiences, uh, from—from 20 years prior. So—yeah, and I did—now that I think about it, I did, um—oh gosh. This was probably a good 10 years—No. it’s more than that. Probably a good 15 years ago, uh, My Sergeant from—from, uh—from Germany, uh,—I did go and see him. He was—he lived up in Atlanta[, Georgia], and I did go and see him one weekend, and, uh, it was—it was kinda—it was interesting, you know, because, when you’re, you know—when he’s your Sergeant, you have one relationship, But when you’re both civilians, you know, 20 years later, uh, you can talk a little more freely, I guess you could say, and he was a good guy. That was another, um—you’d asked me earlier about, uh, influences and memories and stuff, and he was—he was, uh—he was a big influence on me. Sergeant Jones—he was, uh—he was a big influence—Sergeant Wilson Jones. Uh, He was a, uh, big influence on me. He was one of the best bosses that[sic] I ever had in my life, and, uh, I learned a lot about, um—I learned a lot about initiative and perseverance, uh, from working under him. He was—he was a good guy, and he’s still alive, to my knowledge. Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm To my knowledge, he is. Hollingsworth And, uh, so maturing, growing up, and, uh, Sergeant Jones. Was there anything else, with your time in the military, uh, service—or, military service, that influenced your life since leaving? Sturm Oh, gosh. Yeah, you know, uh, you know the—I learned the military changes ya, and, you know, whether it changes you for the good or the bad, I think it kind of depends on the individual, and the experiences that you have in there. Um, you know, Like I say, uh, I was fortunate enough, where we didn’t have any conflicts, um, going on, at the time. So, uh, you know, while—while I was standing on the wall, wolf—the wolf never came, and I’m happy about that. But—no. The—the military changes you, and, you know, you—my maturation process, in that, you know, I learned a lot about, uh, you know, initiative, a lot about perseverance… Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Um, self-esteem. In fact, you know, uh, Sergeant Jones—I reminded him of this story: when I—when I saw him, uh—it’s probably been a good 15 years ago, but, um, uh, you know, one time—and again, you know, 20 year old kid, you know? I don’t remember what exactly the details were, but he had sent me back to the supply room to find something. You know, so I went back there, and I looked around, and I didn’t found[sic]—find it. So I came back, and told him—I said “Hey, Sergeant,” You know, “I couldn’t find it.” and he said “Well, then you didn’t look.” And I said, you know— I was like, “What are you talking about? I just—I just got back from there. I couldn’t find it.” He said “No, if you had looked, you would have found it. Now go back there and find it.” And He was right. You know, it was back there, I just didn’t look hard enough. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And that, you know—that’s one of the—I, you know—I could sit here the rest of the day, telling stories like that, but, um, you know, that’s something that’s carried with me through—really, through today. Um, you know, when I was working, I remember a, uh—a colleague of mine, when I was earning my PhD—um, I was, uh, uh, uh, you know—PhD is a stressful, stressful thing to go through, and I was—something was going on, and I was wound up about it, and I remember him saying, you know, “Hey,” you know, “Don’t worry about it, ‘cause you’re a warrior,” You know? You’re—Even though this is going on now, you’ll still be okay, because—and That’s directly rooted back into—into my military experience, in that, you know—in that perse—that perseverance. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Um, so—yeah. All sorts of, you know—all sorts of, uh, uh, values, um, you know, that I—that I learned, and, you know, some of them were good. Um, uh, some of them were good. You know, I saw some, uh—uh, some experiences—not—I saw some things that I—that set a bad example for me, uh, which served me well, because I didn’t want anything to do with that. You know, so—yeah. Lots of—lots of things. Hollingsworth So what advice would you give today’s military members? Sturm Um, phew. That’s a tough one, uh, you know, because we’ve got some conflicts going on in the world right now. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Also, when you enlist right now, uh, it’s quite possible you might end up in a combat situation. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Uh, so I would, you know—I—I would measure my words carefully, but, uh, you know, barring the combat part of it, um, you know, I would say—I would say to enjoy the time, and, uh—especially if you get sent overseas. Um, uh, uh, do some traveling. That was one regret that I have about my time in Germany is that I didn’t do a lot of traveling. We did some, uh, traveling. You know, Spain and France. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm We—we did some traveling, but, um, uh, I would like to have done a lot more traveling, in retrospect. Um, uh, and serve with honor. You know, that was One of the things that, uh—that attracted me to the military in the first place, uh—was, you know, uh, I saw examples of soldiers, and, they’re, you know—they’re people that[sic] are, um, uh, you know—that[sic] are serving something greater than themselves. You know, they’re making a sacrifice that’s not, uh, you know—they’re not just in there for self-serving reasons. They’re serving, you know, the freedom of the country, um, and, you know, again, that comradery. They’re just, you know—in short, they’re just something greater than—than themselves, and, you know, my advice would be, uh, to enjoy that, because, uh, it may end, when you get out of the, uh—when you get out of the military. Hollingsworth Alright. So, uh, what do you do in your free time now? Sturm Uh, surf [laughs]. Hollingsworth You still surf? Sturm Yeah, yeah, I surf. I, you know, spend as much time with my daughter as I can. Hollingsworth Okay. Sturm Um, You know, still, uh—still working out. Uh, I have all sorts of hobbies. I like to cook. Uh, I fly radio-controlled airplanes. In fact, one of my recent hobbies—as of about two years ago, um—is, uh—is shooting. Uh, when I—When I went into the military, you know, I was a city boy. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm So I never grew up around guns or anything. Uh, And when I went in the military, uh, obviously, we shot. Uh, you know, I—I had, uh, a lot—we—we—I had some fun experiences on the range, shooting some, uh—some of the automatic weapons, and, uh, there was—there was a lot of those fun experiences in there, but I never really thought much about it, you know? It was just something we did. Hollingsworth Right. Sturm And when we went to the range, I always enjoyed it Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Uh,but I never really—never really thought much about it. So, when I got out, um, you know, I never owned a gun. I was never around a gun. I just never thought about it. About probably three years ago now, a friend of mine, um, who was into guns, you know, said “Hey. You wanna come out to the range with me one day?” And I said, “Alright. Yeah. I haven’t shot, you know, in 25 years”—or however long it’s been. So I went out with him, and, uh, you know, what I was trained on was the M16 [rifle]. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm And the civilian version of that is AR-15. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm So he had an AR-15. Um, you know, when I went out—when I took basic training, it was cold—we went out on a cold day, and, uh, I went out there, and, uh, you know, he gave his AR-15, and I did all that I knew to do, which was, you know, the way that I was trained in the military. So, you know, I got down into my prone position on the ground, and, you know, I put about six rounds in about, you know—about an inch in the target, and was thinking, Man, maybe I missed my calling in life here. Hollingsworth Yeah. Sturm ‘Cause I hadn’t shot, you know—I hadn’t even picked up a weapon in 25 years, but being out there in the cold, um, you know, and the smell of the gun powder when you shoot it, and then—and then, remembering how to shoot, uh, you know, was muscle memory, um, and it all came back to me, and that was a, uh—that was a pleasant memory, because I—I remembered, uh, you know, those—those were always good times in the military, going out in the range, and that’s actually become, uh, one of my hobbies. Hollingsworth Oh. Sturm So, you know, I own—I own several guns now. We go out—we go out shooting, about every Saturday morning, uh, on the range. Um, and that’s, uh—that’s a—that’s kinda reminiscing Hollingsworth Yeah. Sturm Over the, uh, uh—from the, uh—from the military days, but… Hollingsworth Do you ever take your daughter with you? Sturm Uh, I took her once. She’s, uh—she’s not real, uh, uh, interested in guns, But I did, uh—I did take her out there once, just to show her that there was nothing to be scared of. Um, so, you know, she’s not—she’s not scared of them, but she respects them and stays away from them [laughs]. Hollingsworth [inaudible]. Sturm Yeah. Hollingsworth Um, is there anything else you would like to talk about? Sturm Uh, oh, my gosh. Um, [sighs] probably—I mean, uh, you know—I’m—I’m—I’m glad I went in. I mean, it—Like I say, it really shaped a lot of the values that I have, uh, these days. Uh, And, you know, it—sometimes—sometimes that’s not always good, because, uh, you know, when I’m, uh—when I’m in, uh—when I’m in, uh, a task mode, then I kind of have a flashback, you know, to the—to the military days, Like with, you know—like with Sergeant Jones. Like, hey, if you got something to do, get it done. Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm You know, I don’t want to hear any excuses. Get it done, but, um, no. I was—I was glad I went in. I did, uh—I did a lot of growing up, when I was in there, and, you know, uh, like I said, before I went in, I was not a student. Uh, when I came out, I was a student, and, uh, my—my GPA [grade point average], uh—I don’t know remember exactly what it was—but I got very few grades less than a[sic]—less than an A, uh, when I came out. So, uh—so no. It was a—it was a good experience. Um, I’m glad I did it. Uh, you know, I respect the, uh—the guys that are going in now, and women—the people that are going in, uh, now, because you gotta—now, um, you know—I—I haven’t looked at the enlistment standards. I’ve never compared them across time, but I, you know—I think you’ve got to be smarter to go in now, because they have all this high-tech equipment… Hollingsworth Mmhmm. Sturm Um, and they’re doing things now that we didn’t do, uh—that we didn’t do back then. So I really—I really have a lot of respect for the people going in these days. In addition to the fact that, when you go in now, you may wind [yawns] —you may wind up in a combat zone very easily, in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, um—so yeah. I could, uh—I could, uh—I could probably sit here all afternoon… Hollingsworth [laughs]. Sturm If you gave me the opportunity, but I don’t think you have enough tape to do that [laughs]. Hollingsworth Hm, alright. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sturm… Sturm You’re welcome. Hollingsworth For your time. It was an honor to be able to interview you Sturm My pleasure. Hollingsworth And I very much appreciate you for your time and service. Sturm I… Hollingsworth Veterans’ Day just passed. So we’ll be in touch again, and we’ll have a copy of your interview for you. Sturm Okay. [inaudible]. Hollingsworth And I’ll bring it to you on the [UCF] Lake Mary campus… Sturm Very good. Hollingsworth Because I want to see it. Sturm Oh, okay. Very good. Hollingsworth That’s it. Sturm Very good. Unidentified 42 minutes. Sturm Yeah. There are probably more things I could have thought up. I didn’t know how much tape I… <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Officially Operation Urgent Fury. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Nuremberg Trials. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Officially Operation Eagle Claw, or Operation Evening Light, or Operation Rice Bowl. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Officially the Northrop B-2 Spirit. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> January 17, 1991 – February 28, 1991. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944. </div> </div> 210th Field Artillery Brigade 34th Infantry Division accountants Advanced Individual Training advanced training AIT alcohol alcoholic beverages alerts AR-15 Army Special Forces basic training beers budget cuts cold war colleges Columbia, South Carolina Community Veterans History Project comradery CVHP David Lee Roth defense defense budgets Desert Storm desert training E-3 E-4 education Enlisted Rank 3 Enlisted Rank 4 enlistment Federal Republic of Germany firearms First Gulf War First Iraq War Fort Irwin & the National Training Center Fort Jackson Fort Stewart Frankfurt Airport Frankfurt, Germany FRG Georgia German Air Force Germans Germany Gulf War Gulf War I guns Headquarters and Headquarters Battery Herzo Base Herzogenaurach, Germany HHB higher education Iraq Iraq War James Earl Carter, Jr. Jimmy Carter Katie Hollingsworth Kuwait Kuwait War law enforcement Luftwaffe M16 rifles military training Mojave Desert music musicians National Training Center NCO non-commissioned officers Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg, Germany Operation Desert Storm orlando Persian Gulf War PFC police police brutality polizei Private First Class range shooting rapid deployment forces Ray Sturm Republic of Iraq Ronald Reagan Ronald Wilson Reagan sergeants shooting shooting ranges soldiers Special Forces Specialist 4 State of Kuwait supply terrorism terrorists Thirty-Fourth Infantry Division training Two Hundred and Tenth Field Artillery Brigade U.S. Army U.S. Army Special Forces UCF University of Central Florida Van Halen veterans veterans' benefits Warrior Thunder weapons weather West Germany Wilson Jones Winter Park World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c4a7c19efcd344fcc98e14addfc7600f.pdf 340d2c2cc0e254c232e5ce4f0457fab2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland Alternative Title Oral History, Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Memorials--Florida Women clergy Description An oral history interview of Reverend Margaret E. “Peggy” Howland, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus and a former Presbyterian minister. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the interviewee’s residence in Orlando, Florida, on December 13th, 2016. Some of the topics covered include becoming one of the first female ministers, fighting for GLBTQ+ rights, joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, her role in the Orlando Gay Chorus, her favorite productions, the mass shooting at Pulse nightclub, women in the chorus, the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy, changing community attitudes on homosexuality, missing out on initial vigils, memorials and outreaches, physical challenges, performing at the first responders breakfast, the long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy, and her closing remarks. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Becoming one of the first female ministers 0:05:35 Fighting for GLBTQ+ rights 0:13:12 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus 0:20:54 Role in the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions 0:24:21 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub 0:26:12 Role in the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions (continued) 0:27:58 Women in the chorus 0:31:04 Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy 0:37:58 Changing community attitudes on homosexuality 0:41:57 Missing out on initial vigils, memorials and outreaches 0:44:23 Physical challenges 0:45:31 First responders breakfast 0:48:18 Long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy 0:52:27 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Reverend Margaret E. “Peggy” Howland. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida, on December 13, 2016. Type Moving Image Source Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy". Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, December 13, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 56-minute, and 28-second oral history: Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy". Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts, Orlando, Florida Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses Festival, Denver, Colorado Joy Metropolitan Community Church, Orlando, Florida Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, Florida Orlando Museum of Art, Orlando, Florida The Plaza Live, Orlando, Florida Pulse nightclub, Orlando, Florida Creator Howland, Margaret E. "Peggy" Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2016-12-13 Date Copyrighted 2016-12-13 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 363 MB Medium 56-minute, and 28-second audio recording 18-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGxwUnVAyGU&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oral History of Reverend Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland</a> Transcript Cravero Alright. Let’s see. Okay. Let’s see. This is Geoffrey Cravero and I’m conducting an oral history with Reverend Peggy Howland of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted at the interviewee’s residence in Orlando, Florida, on Tuesday, December 13th, 2016. Peggy, thanks for speaking with us today. If you would, let’s start by having you state your full name and telling us a little bit about where you’re from. Howland Well, officially, I’m the Reverend Margaret E. Howland. But I’m called Peggy. Um, I’m a—a New Yorker. Um, was living in New York City and right around there for 54 years before I came down here to Orlando, um, going almost four years now. Cravero That’s great. What, um—let’s see. What about a little about your family history? What did your parents do? Howland My father was an attorney. Head of a law firm. And, um, my mother had taught school before she started having her five children [laughs]. And, um, we had a very c—comfortable life after three of u—the first three of us were born during the [Great] Depression. And, um, we skimped and saved a lot. And, uh—but then, uh, as my father became, um—got his law degree and became active as a lawyer and a community figure, we—we had a fairly comfortable life. Cravero And, um, how and when did you become involved in, uh, the church? Howland Oh. We went to Sunday school from childhood. My, um—my—my father had been an Episcopalian and my mother a Presbyterian. But they decided on a Methodist church that had a big Sunday school. And, uh, we went to Sunday school all the time. Uh, but as a teenager, I began to become—I think really partly it was the i—influence of my Sunday school teachers that I became more interested in the Bible. And I—I think I spent all my life searching for love. And, uh, I—I think—I think my mother wasn’t able to show, uh, love in a very overt way. Uh, because I always had the feeling I was trying to get my mother to love me. But God loved me. And I began as a—especially as a teenager, I began to have this overwhelming conviction of the love of God for me and for all people. And, um—and I fell in love with the Bible, uh, and the stories. And eventually, uh—it was a time when a woman—I mean there were no women ministers. Um, and I didn’t even—we were Republicans in our family. And we didn’t, uh—we—people talked about women’s rights. Equal rights for women. And I didn’t know if I was in favor of that because I had been taught by some pretty conservative Christians that, um, women were supposed to be in a different position than men. Course, I don’t believe that any more. Uh, I think God loves us all the same. And, uh—and I think it’s a misinterpretation of the Bible, uh, to make—and—and—and failing to see the, um, teachings of Jesus and the example of Jesus. It—and—and even the example of St. Paul and others in the Bible, uh, for whom women, eh—Christianity liberated women and gave them an opportunity to be part of—of this message of—of God’s love, uh, for people. And, um, i—it was—it was slow. I was slow growing into that. But at—at the University of Pennsylvania, uh, where I went to school, uh, I was able to major in the Lands of the Bible. I majored in Oriental Studies. Basically, the Near East. And I studied Ancient, um, Art. And Literature. And History. And Language. And Civilization of Egypt. And Mesopotamia. And Palestine. All the lands, uh, of the Bible. And s—I studied Greek and Hebrew to read the Bible in the original languages. And, uh, it was—it was just, uh—I was just so in love with the Bible and of the message of God’s love, uh, for people. It was a long time before I fully began to understand God’s love for everybody. Um, when we were young, uh, we didn’t know anything about gay and lesbian. That was, uh—it was—it was so much in the closet. So hidden that you never saw it. And, uh—but as a woman minister—as one of the very first, uh, women—wo—uh, women me—in the ministry in the Presbyterian Church, uh—as we began—as—it was a long time. It was maybe 20 years after I was ordained that women began to be more, uh—it began to be more common for women to be clergy. And, uh, as we would meet in support groups and—and, uh, sharing with one another, it began to be very clear to us—it was in the early seventies that, uh, churches began to get concerned about whether homosexuals were allowed to be ordained. Um, which people thought was, you know—they began to think, Well, we shouldn’t—we should be kind to other people. But ordain them? Um, and, uh—and nobody ever thought marriage [laughs]. But, uh—but the women clergy began to see that gay people were being treated the same way we had been treated. Um, I mean people—people said very rude and crude things to me about they didn’t, you know—they didn’t believe—that God was—the Bible was against us. Wi—they didn’t believe that—that God would call a woman to be—to preach. But I knew from the very beginning that it wasn’t my idea [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Howland That it was God’s idea. Because I—I really believed that God had led me, uh, in this direction. Uh, so it didn’t matter what they said. And—and I, uh, often have thought about the words of, uh, Susan B. Anthony , who in 1848, was among the women who asked for the right to vote. And they didn’t get it until 1920, long after Susan B. Anthony was dead. And she had—she had gone to congress every year of her life, um, ask—asking and working for the right to vote. And she didn’t live to see it but she said, “Failure is impossible.” And this is what I began to t—tell my gay friends. “Failure is impossible [laughs].” Uh, even though y—they couldn’t see that there would any time be acceptance, um—in the beginning, I used to worry that people would think that I was gay because I knew that the gay clergy—people that I knew were gay weren’t—were still in the closet. And I was never—I was never outing them. And they—I knew that they couldn’t speak up in public. But I could. And I felt—I began to feel a little angry about it for a while. Why do I have to do this all the time? People will start thinking I’m gay. And then it got to the point where I didn’t care if they did. And now I think I even consider it a compliment if somebody thinks I’m gay. Because, um—especially—I—I mean the gay people that I’ve known in the church have been very active through—in the Presbyterian Church nationally in terms of helping to open up, uh, ordination to women. Uh, I was a representative for my Presbytery to testify, um, at our general assembly, where we finally approved the ordination of gay and lesbian and transgender people. And, um—and also was active—very active in working up in New York State, uh, for, uh, the—the state to approve the, uh, marriage of, uh, gay people. And I can remember just before the final vote of the senate in New York—and I was up there in my clerical collar, uh, at this[sic] senate hearings. And, um, demonstrating. And one of the men who was there—I think it was an Episcopal deacon, uh, said to me that he and his partner were married. They’d been married in Canada and they lived in New York. And I found out then that there were already 9,000 couples in New York—gay couples who were married legally and recognized by the State of New York because they’d been married somewhere else. Because the state would—would—while they wouldn’t allow anybody to be married in New York, they’d let—they’d recognize marriages from elsewhere. And so then, New York State voted, uh, to approve the, uh, marriage of—of gay and lesbian couples. And, uh, then, shortly after that, I came to Florida and started working on it down here. And when I came to Florida, uh, my friends were appalled that I was leaving. I was kind of appalled, too. But I kne—I knew that I needed to take care of myself. And I was able to find a retirement community that I could come to here that I could afford. And so I said to them a—as I was leaving I would say, “I’m being sent as a missionary to a racist, sexist, homophobic, gun-totin’ state.” And they would laugh. And I would laugh. But after I got here, I gradually began to realize this was my mission here. And, um, I—I—I—I couldn’t believe at the age of 80, when I came here, I could still sing. Because a lot of my friends were losing their voices. And, um, I—the first Sunday I was here—and I went to the Park Lake Presbyterian Church—uh, they had a notice in the bulletin about the Park Lake Gay-Straight Partnership meeting that next week. And, uh, I was thrilled. Um, and we have this marvelous small group of—of gay and straight people who—we have a partnership and we try to help educate the church, um, and other people about this. And—and last year we had our first marriage in the church of t—uh, two men. Then we had a wonderful celebration. And I—far as I know, we’re the only Presbyterian church so far in this Central Florida Presbytery that has had a gay marriage, uh, in the church. And it was a—it was great. Um, but I—one of my friends introduced me to someone—we were at a gathering of FAVO. The Faith Arts Village of Orlando, which our church sponsors, uh, in a—in an old converted motel, uh, next door to the church. Um, it’s a marvelous, uh, thing. The first Friday of every month. And I was there and I was having—having something to eat sitting outside. And I got introduced to this guy who was a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. And I said—and, uh, I said, “Oh.” I said, “I’ve gotta find someplace to sing, um, here in Orlando. Because I’m afraid if I don’t keep singing, I’ll lose the ability to sing. Because so many of my friends my age can’t sing anymore.” And he says, “You can join the Orlando Gay Chorus.” And I said, “You have women?” And they said, “Yes.” I said, “Do you have to be gay?” He said, “No. Cravero [laughs]. Howland Everybody can sing.” So that was in the summer. First summer here. And at Christmastime I went to the holiday show that the chorus had at the Plaza Live. And I—I bought a—a ticket that cost a little more so I could get in early. And I went and sat in the front row. And I can see on the stage standing on the risers there were some people sitting on the risers, who obviously weren’t able to stand. And so they were allowed to sit. And there were people with white hair. And there were young and very old. There were men and women. There were—there were—I already knew there were gay and straight and trans. And black and white. And really, really fat people. And really skinny people [laughs]. And, uh, then I began to—at the end they came—they came down the steps right in front of me and walked out. And I saw them helping a woman down the steps who obviously had cerebral palsy. And I thought, I can belong to this group. And so we had the auditions in January, um, three years ago. And, uh—and I became a member of the chorus. And it’s been just amazing. On the—there are two of us that are 83 years old in the chorus. We’re the two oldest. And, um, I’m very proud of that [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Howland But that’s—that’s what I found in this community. Uh, a loving, caring, thoughtful, kind, talented group of people of every sort who—who sing. And who work hard. And, uh, they’ve been so helpful and accepting of me. And in the beginning—in the beginning, I couldn’t stand the noise. I was—I—I—there’s so much—there—these young people, they—they make a lot of noise [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Howland I thought, I—I don’t know if I can last through this. But I have. And, um, they’re so helpful and—and kind. And they’re really like a family to me. Um, it’s been wonderful. And, uh, especially the last couple years, um, with our new, um, artistic directors. The quality of the chorus—it only be can’t—only became a soprano, alto, tenor and bass a couple years before I came here. F—s—it’s going on for 26 years now. And there’s still some of the original men who founded the chorus in it. Uh, what courage these men had 26 years ago, uh, to come out. Uh, and that—to me, that’s what really has brought about, uh, the—the acceptance, um—full acceptance of people. Uh, it’s pretty good here in the Orlando area. Although there’s still problems some places. But, um, the—the one thing that has made it possible is the courage of gay and lesbian and trans people, uh, to come out. Uh, straight people being allies, um, is important but—but it’s nothing like the courage of these people who know, uh—I remember the first time I went to—in—in 2003, I had become so active with the LGBTQ organizations and the Presbyterian Church, um—in 2003, I went to a—a huge, uh, gathering—a conference called “Witness Our Welcome”. It was held at the University of Pennsylvania, which is my—my alma mater. And, um, it was people of all faiths, um, different religions, uh, gay and le—LGBT groups coming together. And I was a little scared to go because I didn’t quite know how I would relate to—to gay people, uh, you know, on a wider basis [laughs]. And I remember going—oh—oh, there were people out there with their signs. Their hateful signs. Uh, but I remember they had worship every evening in an Episcopal cathedral, uh, right near the campus. And I remember thinking when I went to those services, This is the most joyous worship I had ever been part of in my whole life. Because here were people who knew that God loved them. And they were in a safe place. And they were able to worship with such joy. And, uh, to me, that—that changed everything for me. And now I have [laughs]—I have gay friends that are Jewish. That are Wiccan. That are any religion or no religion. And they’re all wonderful. And I even have friend that are drag queens [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Howland Which is kind of fun [laughs]. Cravero Do you have, um—well, can you talk a little about what role you have in the chorus? And maybe, um, talk about, uh, one of your favorite early productions before, um, the Pulse tragedy. And we’ll talk a little bit about post afterwards. Howland Um, [sighs]. Cravero [clears throat]. Howland Well, I’m a soprano. I have been an alto all my life. But I’ve sung in—I’ve sung in choirs. Um, and for years I’ve been an alto. And, uh, after I retired from full-time pastoral ministry, um, back in 1998, um—18 years ago now—uh, I found—I didn’t—I didn’t sing in a choir or anything for a while. But I had been participating in a—in a church near where I lived in White Plains, New York. And, uh, they had a group that was getting ready to go to Africa—to Kenya to sing. And, uh, they wanted to sing back to the, uh—the Kenyans, when you come, they always sing for you. They sing and dance. And so we wanted to sing back to them. And so we—we practiced for a year. And I got into this group to go to Kenya for three weeks. And, um, I guess I was singing soprano ‘cause that’s kind of what they needed. And after I came back from Kenya I decided to join the church choir. And they needed sopranos. And so I became a soprano. And I had never been able to sing that high before. But I tr—we had a marvelous soprano soloist. And I would imitate her. I would try to sing like—like she did. And I was having a marvelous time. So when I came here and I au—I auditioned for the Orlando Gay Chorus, um, they dec—they thought, Yes. You’re a soprano. We’ll make you a soprano 2. ‘Cause we have soprano 1 and 2, alto 1 and 2, et cetera. And, uh, so I sing soprano and when we s—divide I sing the low soprano part. And every once in a while, I get to sing the high part, too. Cravero [laughs]. Howland And I can sing higher notes than I ever could before. And I’m 83. And it amazes me. We even had a, uh—we—we have these cabarets every once in a while. And twice now, I’ve sung a solo in one of our cabarets. The first year I sang “I Could Have Danced All Night” from My Fair Lady. And, uh, then last year—in fact, it was the night before the Pulse. On June 11th[, 2016], we had this cabaret at the Orlando Museum of Art. And I sang “We Kiss in a Shadow” from, uh, The King and I. And—as a solo. And ah—it was just wonderful because I—here I was at my age singing solos. And I’m even working on one for the next time. Um, but after the—after the concert—and the thing is, I was able to do it because the people in the chorus were so affirming. And telling me how great it sounded. So I—so I didn’t have to be scared any more. I didn’t have to be nervous any more. And, uh, that night I had a friend come with me to the Museum of Art. And after it was over, we were hungry. And we were looking for a pizza place. And we didn’t, uh—we thought, Where—where’s a place that’s open that’s—that we can get to? And finally, we decided to go down to—we went down South Orange Avenue past the Pulse to McDonald’s and had hamburgers. And this is—this is just a couple hours before the thing happened. And so at midnight, we’re coming back past the Pulse back to home here. And I—I couldn’t believe it the next morning when I—when I woke up and looked at my phone. And people were saying—and my friends were saying, “Are you safe?” “Are you safe?” “I’m safe. Are you safe?” And, um—and that’s why every single morning since then—every morning when I wake up I—I—I—I remember the Pulse. And think about that morning for six months now. I was telling you how I got into the chorus. And, uh, it’s—it’s been a marvelous experience. I never in my life ever before memorized all these songs. And then we have choralography they call it, where we—we, you know, do motions and things and—while we’re singing [laughs] all in concert together. Uh, and our productions are not just—i—we’re not just standing there singing like a choir. We’re participating in many different ways. Um, and it’s a real great show and production. And, uh, I guess I’m really grateful to the Disney people who came to Orlando and helped make Orlando the kind of area where, uh, the arts and all the different kinds of production and everything, uh, were really, uh, i—it was just a place that would attract, uh, creative, uh, wonderful people. And it’s such a place of music and art her in—in Orlando. And i—it’s—it’s just so wonderful how the chorus has become a part of that in the city. The—the chor—the concerts we just had this past weekend, Glad Tidings over at the Plaza Live, we were sold out both nights. And people said it was the best show ever. And one of the things that’s happened, uh, since—since I’ve been here it’s been happening, but it started before I came here. The Orlando Gay Chorus never was just men. Women came. Lesbians came and wanted to be part of it. And they weren’t really—I don’t think they were really welcomed at first, but they insisted. And—but for 25—for—well, 20, maybe 22, 23 years, it was an—a TTBB : just the tenor and bass, uh, chorus. It was a—it was a men’s chorus that had some women in it, who were singing with men’s voices. They were singing tenor parts. We—we even had a woman who was a bass. And, um, just a couple years before I came here, it became soprano, alto, tenor and bass. And, um, s—it’s been harder getting as many women in. Uh, and the difference has been y—you know what gay men’s choruses sound like. I remember the first time I hear—I’ve heard gay men’s choruses in different cities. And they have this strong men’s sound. And—which is wonderful. But, um, with the soprano and alto being added to it, uh, and with our—with the current director we have, James [A.] Rode, and Harold Wright, who is his assistant, they are working for something other than the loud gay men’s voice. Instead, uh, it’s much more—the music is much more nuanced. We sing softly. Uh, we sing expressively. Uh, we sing tenderly. Uh, as well as loud [laughs]. We—we do all kinds of—of singing. And, uh, the chorus has grown in its maturity musically within the last few years. Uh, and I’ve seen it happen. Because I think the first year I was here, we were still a gay men’s chorus in tone. Uh, and, um—and we’re—we’re becoming more—more nuanced. But—but in the last—the last year, even my friends—my musical friends say to me, “Wow. You’re so much better. You’re fabulous.” And I think it’s—it’s really because of the leadership and direction that we’ve had that’s helped us all to find our voices. And we have al—we have—we have some men altos and women tenors. And—and, uh, uh, it’s been a—a wonderful experience. I’m not sure I remember what I’m supposed to be answering. Cravero Oh, I—I think you covered it. Howland Okay. Cravero And plenty [laughs]. Well, you did mention, um, when you first heard about Pulse that morning. Could you talk a little bit about, um, what you did that Sunday: the day after the tragedy? And… Howland Well, it was the day of the tragedy. Cravero Right. Howland I mean it happened—it started at two minutes after two that morning. And at five o’clock, they were still—I don’t if they were really starting to really get the people out of there. I mean the bodies were still in there. And, um, we—we got a call, um, I—I don’t know—we—we just have this amazing communication [laughs] now with our cellphones. And, um, I heard that we were to be at the, um—the church. The, um, Metropolitan Community Church. The Joy Metropolitan Community Church, uh, which you may know is basically a gay and lesbian organiz—uh, church. Uh, and we were to be there for a service at six o’clock. And I guess we were supposed to be there at five. Uh, and to come in our, uh—in one of our wardrobe things that we wear. And, uh—and sing. And I guess they were waiting to see how many of us showed up and who showed up as to exactly what we would sing. And we didn’t have an accompanist. So some of it was gonna be things that were acapella. Um, and, um, I had—I had a flat tire on the way there. I—I—I must have hit the curb or something. And I had a flat tire. But thankfully, people in the house fixed the ti—they changed my tire for me. And I got to the church in time. And there was standing room only at the Metropolitan Community Church. Um, there—there were people outside. They broadcast[sic] the service to the outside. And now this—this had happened two o’clock in the morning. That day at six o’clock at this service, there were Metropolitan Community Church pastors from all over Florida. From Tallahassee. And Sarasota. And Miami, who were there for that service. I mean they just came right away. And some of our members had been standing out in lines trying to give blood that afternoon. As there were people—people were standing in line for eight hours that day to give blood. And—and—and then a lot of them came back the next day and gave blood. Um, we—there wasn’t room for us all to sit down in the church. Uh, so a lot of the chorus members were standing along the side. And we sang two numbers that we didn’t need to have, um accompaniment for. W—we sang—and these were songs that we had just sung in our concert, uh, that—that spring, just a short time before. It was “True Colors” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. And those two songs we sang a hundred times after that. Uh, we started having from that day—and—and the very next night was, uh—in the evening was this candlelight vigil with 6,000 people there at the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center in front of it. Between City Hall and there I could still see that huge, huge crowd of people. And the experience of—of being there. And at one point, as it was getting dark, they—they began to toll the bells. They began to toll the bell 49 times. And each time they would read the name of someone who had died. And—and there was a man standing next to me. He heard one of the names and he just collapsed. And his friends picked him up and held him. And, uh, people were lighting their candles and listening to the bells and to the—and to the names being—being read. It—there—there were—this—th—there was a woman—there was a woman there who was one of the ministers at the Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, [South Carolina], where they had the—where nine people had been killed by a gunman just a year before. And this was just—i—it was just a little before—I think that very week they were having a first anniversary. And she came down here to be with us. And the, um—there was also a prayer given by a Muslim imam. And what I saw that day, the very day after this happened, was—were three things. I saw love. I saw solidarity. And I saw unity. And that’s what they were talking about: “Orlando United”. “Orlando Strong”. And it—it was such a moving thing to be part of an experience and see a city that just came together over this. And—and that day when it happened. On that Sunday. I—I’ve always said that I’m a New Yorker. And I’m proud to be a New Yorker. I’m a Yankee fan. Uh, but I was proud to be an Orlandoan that day. And I—and I—given me such a sense of being part of this community, that is united and strong. And loving and supportive. And—and I know that there’s people here who, uh, still want to, uh, ridicule and condemn gay people. But, uh—but I think there’s less of them. And I think people are opening up. One of the a—amazing things that’s happened, because I live here in this retirement community, just last night a woman said to me, “You know, I have a daughter who’s gay.” I have another friend—at—the people—because they knew here that I’ve been singing with the Orlando Gay Chorus, there were people who said to me—I remember one woman in tears who said to me, “My granddaughter’s gay. I’m so worried for her.” Because when they realize that—that this attack at the Pulse, uh, hit home to gay people. And—and, of course, I sing with the Orlando Gay Chorus. We went the following month in July—the beginning of July—only three weeks later—out to Denver, Colorado, for the GALA Festival. The Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses. And we had choruses from all over the world. Mainly from the United States, but other places, too. And, um, people there were—were hugging and kissing us [laughs] all the time. They would say—they would see that we were from Orlando and they’d say, “May I hug you?” Um, but all around the world people felt this. The same way as my friend whose granddaughter was gay here. And other people who live here who have gay family members who are, uh—who just fear for them, uh, because of this. Uh, and it brought back all the—the tender, um, uh, heart-wrenching, uh, experiences that people have had. And, of course, now with the new president-elect , um, making, uh, bigotry seem more powerful, um, people are feel—feeling the same thing again. But I—I am so proud of—of the gay community here. And I’m proud, uh, to be considered part of it as an ally. And to be totally accepted, uh, by them. And it’s given me—there were—in the beginning of living here, uh, at what I call here “the Old Folks Home”, I—I was—I did not often wear my t-shirts that say “Orlando Gay Chorus” on them. Uh, because I didn’t want to offend people. But I don’t care anymore. And, uh, I want them to be—if it offends them, fine. We’ll talk about it. And, uh, I want to—I really think I’ve become known here, uh, as—as, uh—as somebody who’s a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. And, um, I’ve met employees here who are gay. Um, people still are pretty much in the closet. Uh, anybody who’s gay here at this old folks home. But, um—and I’m not outing anybody, but I’m outing myself as an ally. And if they think I’m gay, that’s fine, too. That’s alright. Cravero Um, [clears throat] as you, uh—well, you were speaking about some of the vigils. As you reflect on some of your experiences with the vigils, um—well, how many did you participate in afterwards? And is there anything that—that particularly stands out to you from those? Howland Well, I probably have participated in 20 or 30 of them. We’ve had 50 or 60. Uh, some, uh—we have four ensembles in the chorus. And some of the—some of the vigils have been done by ensembles because they were the easiest ones to get together. Uh, a lot of them have come just at a few moments notices. Um, I, uh, was—I participated—I had to leave town for 10 days, uh, at the end of June. In between the time the Pulse happened and the GALA Festival out in Denver. Uh, I went to Portland, Oregon, where the Presbyterian Church General Assembly was meeting. And, uh, I’m a very active, uh, participant in, um, uh, working with the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship and other organizations. And with the, uh—the LGBTQ organizations as well out there. Uh, and so I spent a lot of my time telling people out there about, uh, Orlando. So I missed a bunch of the, uh, important outreaches that we had. The memorials. The vigils. Um, there have been so many of—different kinds. Some of them were fundraising. We sang “True Colors” and—and, uh, “When you walk through the storm." We sang both of those, uh, a great deal. And some other songs as well. Some of us—p—people just carried their—their shirts. We had our Billboard shirts that we usually sing in. And whatever the wardrobe was gonna be people just carried it in their cars so that they’d be available at a moment’s notice. And I’m—you know, I’m handicapped. I’m—I’m elderly. I use a walker and a cane. And I’m—the—PJ Galas Finster is our, um, stage manager for all kinds of things. And he would always make sure wherever we sang that there was a way—there were people to help me up steps if I had to get up steps. Uh, there was a place I could sit or I would sit in my walker seat. Uh, we—they always arranged to include me in it. And, uh, it was a lot of effort many times to get a parking place and to be able to move, uh, to where we were supposed to sing [door closes]. Uh, it was a tremendous effort for me to keep walking, uh, when I—when I didn’t feel like walking. And, um, because I am physically challenged. But, uh, eh, they—the people in the chorus have done so much to help include me. Um, some of the things—we had a thing out at, um—at UCF . It was—I think it was the School of Social Work. Maybe there were two different schools together that had a memorial service after people came back to school in—in September. And that was moving. To hear people tell the stories. We sang, um, over at the [Orange County] Convention Center, uh, on International Drive for a first responders breakfast. Um, oh, I had to walk a mile to get to that. Um, the Convention Center’s so huge. I had a terrible time. I couldn’t even find the place. And then when I found it, I had to walk forever inside the building to get to where we were singing. But then, to be there, uh—the singing—we were gr—we were so grateful that we were able to be there and sing. And give some su—support to them. But then, to hear the stories that were told of what these first responders did for which they were being honored. They were giving out awards that day. Uh, and a bunch of them were for people who were at the Pulse. Uh, and to hear what they went through in, um—and what they did, uh, to, uh—at a danger to themselves. And, um, there was one police—I—I don’t know that he was honored f—for this, but one of the police, uh, responders has—the last I heard, he was still suffering from PTSD from all that he saw—that he just can’t—that he—he—he dreams about it at night. He can’t get it out of his mind. He’s been unable to work. Um, people don’t realize—a—and—and the stories the doctors—th—the doct—the doctor who had the bloody shoes that he’s never given up and never cleaned. The bloody shoes while he was operating on people. Um, there were so many things that we heard from other people. And, um, I don’t—I don’t—tell—tell me—tell me, have I answered… Cravero Oh, absolutely. Howland [laughs]. Cravero Yeah. You’ve—you’ve covered questions I would—I didn’t even have to ask [laughs]. Um, what would you, uh, hope that some of the long-term consequences would be for not only the Orlando gay community, but maybe for the larger city or even the, you know, larger society as a whole, uh, from—from this tragedy? Howland Well, I hope people will be kindler[sic]—kinder and gentler. I—I have been so impressed with the spirit that Orlando has had. I mean I just k—keep seeing this “Orlando Strong”, or y—or—course being right down here in Downtown South, where it all happened, um—eh, the—the signs all over the place about “Orlando Strong”. I mean even—even I wore—I was wearing a Pulse shirt yesterday. I wore my Pulse shirt for the—for the, um, six-month anniversary. And an old woman [laughs] said to me, “Oh. Can—are those still available? Do you think I could get one?” And—and I—I wear t-shirts all the time around here. I’m probably the o—only what that does. I mean occasionally other people wear t-shirts. But I happen to love t-shirts. And—and so I’m very comfortable in them. So I don’t dress up every day. I wear t-shirts. I love t-shirts. And, um, so I have all my t-shirts for solidarity. Uh, and I guess maybe people are able to respond to me because of that. But, um, I just—I’m impressed. And I’ve seen a spirit in Orlando. I mean even the fact that this past weekend at our concerts that we had of the Orlando Gay Chorus—our holiday concert, um—it—the—it was packed. Full—full house. Both—both times. And there’s—the people who are going out of their way to stand up for the community and for the gay community and for inclusion—people are becoming prouder of who they are. And prouder of their support and solidarity and unity. And, uh, I think even some of the ultra-conservative Bible Belt people, um, are growing in their understanding. And—and realizing—eh, eh—some of my friends here, um—here at the old folks home ha—were so shocked when they heard about the Pulse. That these young people needed a safe place to be. It was a safe place for them. And they were kind of shocked and chagrinned that young people would need a safe place. But—but we have it here. We have the Zebra Coalition and the Hope and Help Center [of Central Florida]. Uh, all the different groups here in Orlando that are working for—helping people that have—they’re homeless because they’re gay. And I—I think people are coming together more. I—I hate to have to say that a terrible thing like this has been responsible for it, but I think the response of the community is—is strengthening who we are. And I—I hope it can extend more to the rest of the country. Cravero I think you’ve covered all of the questions I had for you. Is there any, uh, other final thoughts or anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t discussed yet? Howland I think—I think that even though I’m at a stage in my life where things are becoming much more physically difficult for me, um, that the courage that this has given to me, um, is something that I’m grateful for. Uh, and I—I hope I can—I hope I can continue doing as much as I can, uh, for as long as I can. Um, but I—I—I can at least say things and write things. Just today, there came out in the email—I happened to be on the development committee of the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship—that I’ve been an active, uh, participant in, uh, on the serving on the national committee and, uh—for 48 years. Um, we have an advent appeal for funds, uh, eh, in the month before Christmas. And we were doing emails every few says, uh, this month. And I wrote the one last week that came out today in the email. And I wrote it about gun violence. That’s another thing that I see happening. I see the gay community really getting behind the whole, um, end gen[sic] vi—uh, gun violence movement. And for my—for my little, uh, story that I wrote for the email that came out this morning, um, I told them how every morning I wake up thinking about the Pulse. And if I wake up every morning thinking about that, what is going through the minds of the families, uh, from Charleston[, South Carolina], from Sandy Hook [Elementary School]? These families that lost those precious children. Um, how many people throughout our country are, uh, experiencing these flashbacks, these memories that tug at their hearts? Um, eh, that will never leave them their whole lives of what has happened to them. Uh, and how we all have to, uh, get into this—it—it’s absolutely necessary that we get rid of these assault rifles and that we—we work hard on gun violence. And making sure that—that this—that i—it’s—it’s happening every single day in this country. And we have to do something about it. And I’m—I’m—I’m happy that, uh, the gay community, that’s a strong community and has a lot to—to, uh—a lot of power and a lot of voice now, um, will—will get into this battle, too, to end gun violence. Cravero Peggy, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and thoughts with us today. Um, this has been Geoffrey Cravero with Peggy Howland on Tuesday, December 13th, 2016. Howland Thank you. 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting Charleston choralography chorus Denver Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church FAVO female clergy first responders first responders breakfast fundraisers GALA Choruses Festival Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses gay marriage Geoffrey Cravero Glad Tidings GLBT GLBTQ+ gun control gun regulation gun violence Harold Wright hate crimes homophobia homosexuality Hope and Help Center of Central Florida I Could Have Danced All Night James A. Rode JMCC Joy Metropolitan Community Church Kenya Latinx community LGBT LGBTIQ LGBTQ Margaret E. "Peggy" Howland mass shootings ministers Mother Emanuel Church My Fair Lady Orange County Convention Center orlando Orlando Gay Chorus Orlando Museum of Art Orlando Strong Orlando United outreach events Park Lake Gay-Straight Partnership Park Lake Presbyterian Church PJ Galas Finster Plaza Live Portland post-traumatic stress disorder Presbyterian Presbyterian Church General Assembly Presbyterian Peace Fellowship PTSD Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes Sandy Hook Elementary School terrorist attacks The Faith Arts Village of Orlando The King and I True Colors University of Pennsylvania vigils We Kiss in a Shadow Witness Our Welcome women clergy You’ll Never Walk Alone Zebra Coalition https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/cd78f4769e8e45b85bf170fe15b385fe.mp3 036b6fb8889d3948ab83bbc221626ffd https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/fb392c0b83df25923e43be9519172c45.pdf 5309e3142adec2c181f0860cfedd036d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project Collection Alternative Title Linda McKnight Batman Collection Subject Ocala (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Oviedo (Fla.) Port Tampa (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Titusville (Fla.) Zellwood (Fla.) Description Collection of oral histories depicting the history of Seminole County, Florida. The project was funded by Linda McKnight Batman, a former teacher, historian, and Vice President of the State of Florida Commission on Ethics. Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference Museum of Seminole County History, and University of Central Florida. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/744676869" target="_blank">Researcher's Guide to Seminole County Oral Histories: Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project</a>. [Sanford, Fla.]: Museum of Seminole County History, 2010. Contributor <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> Coverage Seminole County, Florida Ocala, Florida Oviedo, Florida Port Tampa, Florida Sanford, Florida Silver Springs, Florida Titusville, Florida Zellwood, Florida Contributing Project Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Morris, Joseph Interviewee Clonts, Rex, Jr. Location Rex Clonts, Jr.'s home in Florida Bit Rate/Frequency 1411kpbs Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Rex Clonts, Jr. Alternative Title Oral History, Clonts Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Celery Agriculture--Florida Zellwood (Fla.) Citrus--Florida Cattle--Florida Ants--United States Description An oral history of Rex Clonts, Jr., conducted by Joseph Morris on November 2, 2011. Clonts was born in Orlando, Florida, but he was raised in Oviedo. In the interview, Clonts discusses his family's work in agriculture, celery farming, how Oviedo has changed over time, the effect of Walt Disney World and the University of Central Florida (UCF) on the region, the citrus and cattle industries, the relationship between the Oviedo community and the Naval Air Station Sanford (NAS Sanford), and fire ants in Florida. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:40 Family background in agriculture 0:11:32 Celery farming 0:12:06 RECORDING CUTS OFF 0:12:07 Celery farming 0:20:23 Bleaching celery 0:25:34 Childhood memories of mules 0:29:13 Working in the fields 0:31:01 How Oviedo has changed over time 0:33:13 Arrival of Walt Disney World and the University of Central Florida 0:38:11 Evolution of the citrus industry 0:42:27 Central Florida weather 0:43:28 Cattle industry 0:45:19 College education 0:45:46 Plane crash near Oviedo High School 0:48:58 Relationship between the Oviedo community and the Sanford Naval Training Center 0:50:40 Fire ants in Florida 0:55:06 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Rex Clonts, Jr. Interview conducted by Joseph Morris at Clonts' home in Florida. Type Sound Source Original 55-minute and 16-second oral history: Clonts, Rex, Jr. Interviewed by Joseph Morris. November 2, 2011. Audio record available. <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/123" target="_blank">Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Oviedo, Florida Zellwood, Florida Black Hammock, Oviedo, Florida Mitchell Hammock, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo High School, Oviedo, Florida Naval Air Station Sanford, Sanford, Florida Creator Morris, Joseph Clonts, Rex, Jr. Date Created 2011-11-02 Date Modified 2014-09-09 Date Copyrighted 2011-11-02 Format audio/wav application/pdf Extent 557 MB 151 KB Medium 55-minute and 16-second audio recording 18-page typed transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Joseph Morris. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/audio/Ep41-Oviedo.mp3" target="_blank">Episode 41: Oviedo, with Dr. Richard Adicks</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/audio/Ep41-Oviedo.mp3. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. S.l: s.n.], 1979. Robison, Jim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/796757419" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. "<a href="http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Oviedo, Florida. http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68. Transcript Morris It is November 2, 2011, and I'm talking to Rex Clonts[, Jr.] at his residence. I am Joseph Morris, representing the Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project for the Historical Society of Central Florida. Mr. Clonts, could you tell us a little about your life? Clonts Well, I was born in 1949 in the hospital, in Orange Memorial Hospital in Orlando, to Rex Clonts, Sr., my dad, and my mother, Thelma Lee Clonts. I'm gonna talk a little bit about their life, if that's okay. Morris Perfect, sir. Clonts My dad came to Oviedo riding in the lap of his mother—he was one year old, age of one—in a Model A Ford, from north Georgia in 1937, I believe. And my mother was born here on Lake Charm in Oviedo. They both passed on rather recently. They—so, basically, both lifelong residents of Oviedo. And after the war [World War II] they married, and I'm the oldest of their five children. Four of us still live right here in Seminole County, and have one sister who lives in Cartersville, Georgia. Morris What kind of jobs did your parents do while they lived in Oviedo, sir? Clonts Their families were in agriculture. Oh, let me start over. Let me start back just a little bit. My mother's family had—her grandfather had moved down here in the 1880s, and her father—my grandfather—C. S. Lee, was born here on Lake Charm in Oviedo. And his dad was in agriculture, taking care of citrus trees. And so my grandfather was always in the citrus, vegetable, and cattle business. And so my mother was familiar with all those endeavors coming up, and it was natural that she married a farmer—my father. His father also had begun farming shortly after arriving in Oviedo. Morris Same type of farming, sir? Clonts Both of them were vegetable farmers growing celery. Morris Okay, sir. Clonts They grew some other crops from time to time, but specialized in celery farming. And so—growing up here—that's what my family did. We had some orange groves, but the majority of the family focus was on the vegetable farming operation. C. R. Clonts Associated Growers was the company that my grandfather started in the early 1940s, and at one time we farmed over 200 acres of celery right here in eastern Seminole County-Oviedo area. You got a mosquito on your cheek. Got him. Morris Thank you, sir. Clonts Celery farming was extremely profitable, lucrative during the early '30s and '40s. Sort of the heyday of the Oviedo celery industry. So their timing was good. But over—after the war, when all the boys came home from the war, and a lot more celery was being grown in the United States, markets went down. Prices went down. The small farms here in Oviedo weren't as easy to operate—weren't as efficient. And so my father and grandfather purchased land in Zellwood—in the Zellwood muck area on Lake Apopka. And they did that in anticipation of needing to be having a more modern, large, contiguous farm. So they purchased that in the year I was born, in 1949. So when I grew up, we were farming both places. My father was farming both—multiple small farms here around Oviedo—Black Hammock, Mitchell Hammock, the Slavia area—and we were raising vegetables at our Zellwood farm. And that was 650 acres. And as a child, I remember going over, and every year they would clear up another portion of that farm. So they started by farming just 40 acres, and then over about another 10 or 12 years, they cleared the rest of it so that they could farm all 650 acres over there. When I went off to college, I specifically—I went to school so that I wouldn't be a farmer. I could have stayed home and been a farmer. So I was planning on working in the business world, and just before I graduated realized the one business I could control was coming back here, taking over the family farm. And so I came back and joined actively working full-time in 1971, when I got out of college. And I moved over to Apopka and ran that Zellwood farm. We grew celery, lettuce, carrots, sweet corn, occasionally onions and parsley—several crops over the years, but the staple was always celery, sweet corn, and carrots. And in about 1978, we closed down our last Oviedo farm. Up until that time, we'd been farming both places, but we closed that down, and the last farm land that we were actively farming is now—is in Mitchell Hammock—is now a sod farm along Mitchell Hammock in between Mitchell Hammock and Chapman Roads. So, no longer used for vegetables. Family still owns the land, but we don't farm vegetables anymore. Morris Okay, sir. So your family's no longer in the farming business, but they were in the farming business up until 1978? Clonts Well, we still were in business here in several ways. We always had orange groves here. Morris Okay, sir. Clonts And we have cattle ranches. Morris Those were my follow-up questions. Clonts Yeah. You know, you'd find most people that had been multi-generational in the vegetable business in Central Florida also have had orange groves and cattle, because the three just naturally go together here. And you can, if you're successful in one, you're able to be successful in the other, usually. Morris How come they go together like that, sir? Clonts Well, vegetables are very seasonal, so, you know, you've got a fall crop and a spring crop, but you got time on your hands during the other portions of the year. So orange grove tends to be more year-round work, but is not as intensive as vegetable farming, so you can sort of work the two together. And then if you've been successful in the vegetable business, usually you reinvest in land, and very often the best use for that land is cattle. Only certain types of land are good vegetable land, but cattle you can graze just about anywhere in Central Florida. Morris Okay, sir. Could you give us a little insight into how you grow vegetables—celery in particular, citrus in particular—like the methods of how you would go about it? Clonts Celery's, in nature, celery grows, um—stop it. Morris Sure thing, sir. Morris Okay, sir. Would you like to continue? Clonts Yeah. Celery in Central Florida is—the seed is planted in the fall, and it’s planted in seed beds so that you can grow a large number of plants in a small, controlled area. You can herbicide them. You can control the irrigation. And as those seeds—because celery seeds are a very difficult seed to sprout. It’s not much larger than a large fleck of pepper, and takes a long time to germinate to get any substantial size, and so we would start planting seed in August. But because that seed is so tender, we would oftentimes cover those plants. First of all, laid burlap out as soon as you rolled the seed down out on the ground, and let the seed actually germinate under the burlap where it would be cooler and moister. You kept the ground moist with subsurface irrigation, and actually surface irrigation between the beds to keep that environment just right for those little seeds to germinate. And then you would remove the sacks after the green—after the seeds germinated and started to show the first leaves. And we would grow them in the seed bed for about four months, and then we would transplant those plants, pull them up by the root, knock the majority of the dirt off the root, and pack them in boxes, take them to the production field. And we used a New Holland transplanter, which is a fairly simple machine that, as it’s pulled through the field, opens up a furrow, and it has a wheel with a set of fingers on it, and you can put the plants one at a time in the notches in the wheel, and as it goes around and puts the root in that furrow, it releases that plant. And we would have a bank of six of these wheels on the back of a tractor-drawn machine, and go through the field and transplant—we called it “setting”—the celery plants in the field. And from that point, they got immediately irrigated with overhead irrigation so that the ground got packed good[sic] around the roots, and they got a good start. Then it took anywhere from 75 to 90—and if the weather was cold, maybe 100—days to produce that crop. So growing celery’s four months in the seed bed, and three months in the field. It’s a long cycle, especially when you consider that in the off-time you’re having. Someone usually would gather seed from an arid region like Utah or California. Had our seed grown. So between the production of seed and the planting of seed and the growing of the crop, was just about a year-round endeavor. And we did all our harvesting in March, April, May, and June. Morris Why did you transplant it from the seed bed to the production area? What was the difference between—is it soil? Clonts No. Well, yes. It did happen to be different soil, but you could take ten acres of seed beds and grow enough plants for 200 acres of field production, and so was much less expensive to take care of that—to do the fungicide, and the weeding, and keeping the insects off of it on ten acres. And then you—when you pull those plants and spread them out where they would get to a large stalk, planted them at the right distance apart, you could have 200 acres of celery out of that. You only had three months to take care of that 200 acres. Morris Oh, okay, sir. So it was easier to guard and protect them when they were younger that way? Clonts Yeah, much easier, much less expensive to protect them. The transplanting operation was expensive, but it was not nearly as expensive as it would have been trying to put those plants—to put those seeds directly in the field and take care of them the whole seven months it took to grow that. And you could, also when that—the seed beds—that ten acres that that seed bed was on… Morris Mosquito’s trying to—he’s gone. He’s just scouting you out, sir. Clonts The ten acres that seed beds are on is very—you intensely farm that, and one of the preparations of doing that intense farming—this will keep the mosquitoes out—is that you level that land meticulously. You tried to—you ran a very intricate irrigation system all tile-drained, and you used—your seed bed land was your most prized possession in the celery business. That seed bed—a good seed bed—plot that was the right consistency of soil and the right ability to not only hold moisture, but to get rid of moisture when you had too much rain—to get rid of excessive rainfall—was very important. So celery farmers did a lot of work to try to get their seed bed just perfect and have the right plot of land to do that with. Morris So that was pretty common then, between celery farmers? Clonts Yeah. Every celery farmer in the state had their own seed beds. And now seed—most celery seed or a good portion of it—is grown in greenhouses. It’s grown in plant trays—in the trays of plants in greenhouses. So it’s got much more of a controlled environment to grow in now, than when we were growing them outside. But still the best plants are the ones grown outdoors. It’s just a lot tougher, a lot more work. Morris Okay, sir. Did you ever bleach the plants—whiten them? Clonts That was a practice that kind of came to an end in the mid-1940s. Until then, yes. They took the boards and put down the sides of celery, at least a portion of it, and they would bleach it. I remember them doing that as a child—I shouldn’t say that. I remember them talking about it, but I don’t actually remember seeing it. Morris Okay, sir. But why did they do that? I personally don’t understand. Clonts It was a practice that—I don’t know this for sure—but I think that it allowed celery to be harvested, and stored in root cellars, and carried much longer through the year, than if celery were left green and packed away and stored. You know, a lot of the original celery growers were Upstate New York and Michigan. In the North, when they grew celery, they grew it in the late summer, harvested it, and stored it, and shipped it out little by little during the wintertime. And so people would traditionally take celery, put it in a root cellar back in the—back before refrigeration. And it was very important to try to preserve that as long as you could before so that you had vegetables, and if you stored potatoes, and everything that you harvested in the fall, you stored and ate on it as long as you could. We’re not used to that nowadays. Nowadays you go to a supermarket and they got, you know, just about every vegetable year-round, but that’s just happened in my lifetime. Prior to that and prior to refrigeration in the early part of the 1900s, vegetables were very seasonal. And so you had an excess—you had an abundance at harvest time—you tried to store that as long as you could. And bleached celery would store better than green celery. Morris Okay, sir. Clonts That’s the reason. That’s the long-winded explanation for bleaching. And because it traditionally had been bleached, even after refrigeration came along in the early part of the 1900s, celery was—had always—people were used to eating bleached celery, so that’s the way it was done. That was phased out, and my understanding is that the military, right before World War II, came out with a report that said green celery was better for you than bleached celery—was more nutritious. And that one report was sort of the tipping point. They had been up until then, for the few years before that, they had been growing bleached and unbleached celery, and after that, bleached celery became a thing of the past. Morris Okay. Well, thank you, sir. Clonts All right. That’s the long-winded explanation. It’s kind of like, you know, why did all citrus juice come from a frozen concentrate can a few years ago, and now it’s available in a not-from-concentrate carton in the refrigerated section of the store? It’s sort of the same thing. It’s an evolution of technology and what people are used to. And you can’t—people don’t change their habits overnight. It takes a while. Morris All right. Gotcha, sir. Clonts But all the celery starting in the late ‘40s then, was not bleached celery. Morris Did your—so I’m understanding—well, you didn’t grow it that way, but your father and grandfather each did? Clonts Grandfathers definitely did. Yes. Morris Okay. Well, how, you said earlier that one of the stories you remember—hearing them talk about bleaching the celery. Do you remember any other childhood memories popped into your mind? You know, whether’s[sic] it in agriculture or just at school? Clonts Well, when I was—I do remember my father’s—excuse me—my grandfather’s mules. He had obviously started—mules were used a lot, exclusively in the 1800s, and quite a bit in the early 1900s, because in Oviedo most of this celery farming was grown on muck, and that soft, organic land, the heavy tractors of the day wouldn’t stand up. They’d do fine out here on the sand land, or where they were mostly used in the Midwest, but that muck soil was, you had to have good flotation. And they would even take the mules’ hooves and wrap them in sacks, and tie around the hooves to increase the footprint of the mule so that he wouldn’t bog up as much when he went through the field. And at the end of the day, untied those sacks off the bottom of the mules’ feet. And the next day, if it was still soft and wet out there, they’d retie them. That would keep him from bogging up. He’d only sink three inches instead of sinking eight inches. Morris And the mule accepted this. Clonts The mules accepted it. And you know, back then, if you were going to be a farmer, you had to be able to have a good—you had to know your mules, and be able to train them, and be able to work them. And it was an art to have a good team of mules. So I remember as a kid, the conversation between my dad and my grandfather, where my dad was saying, “What in the world are you doing keeping those mules? You haven’t plowed a field with them in five years now, and we’re not gonna ever use mules again. I don’t know why you’re fooling with them.” And my grandfather saying, “They’re my mules. I can’t just get rid of them.” So until those mules died, which was probably—I was probably six or seven years old—he still had a barn right on the end of Lake Charm at Florida Avenue. Along Florida Avenue there, he had a barn with two mules in it. But I’ve never seen them work the field. I’ve seen pictures. I’ve got pictures of it. In fact, I’ve got pictures of my grandfather with his mule team and his first tractor in the field, and he’s smiling. I think he’s more proud of the mules than he is the tractor. Morris He had two mules? Is that like a normal amount, or... Clonts Oh, well, they generally used a mule team. They generally used two mule teams farming here. Now, I have no idea how many total teams he had, but probably, you know, two or three teams of two. Morris You said your grandfather had worked the fields. Did your father also work as a farmer? Clonts Yeah. Yes. Morris And growing up, did you do the same? Clonts Well, I worked summers, you know, but—so when school got out in the summer, I’d go work with Dad, and work all summer long at the farm. But my dad always told me that, you know, he wanted me to be whatever I wanted to be. You know, don’t—he didn’t expect me to come back to the farm. If I did, it was going to be my decision. He wanted me to make that decision on my own. Morris Okay. Clonts So as I said, when I went off to college, I went so that I wouldn’t be a farmer, but ended up coming back. Morris When you came back, sir, did you work mostly the administrative? Or did you also go back and work the fields as well? Clonts No, I worked the fields. I mean, you know, times had changed, but we had a crew of tractor drivers and—but I was the farm manager. I oversaw not only decisions on what we were gonna plant and where we were gonna plant it, but when the planting times were gonna be, and how we were gonna try to space the crop out, what personnel we needed for packing, and shipping, and selling. Morris Okay, sir. Can you tell us how it’s changed over the years, like Oviedo and the areas you’ve lived in? Since you were growing up, I’m assuming there’s been a lot of changes between then and now. Clonts Well, Oviedo in the 1950s was an agricultural economy. Between the citrus and the vegetables that were grown, the basis for all the economy and all the services here was built around agriculture. That started changing in the late ‘50s, as some of the new equipment that was available had opened up new farming areas in the United States, and competition. For instance, in South Florida, the Belle Glade area opened up, and it was more economical in a lot of ways to grow products down there than it was up here. So, these farms tended to fall on harder times, and the more marginal farms and marginal farmers dropped out, sometimes bought up by other farmers, and sometimes that land was just taken out of production, never to be put in. There was lots of small pockets here in Oviedo that I remember having vegetables in them, that have not have been farmed in thirty years now. Morris Now, that started occurring the ‘50s, you said, sir? Clonts Well, late ‘50s. And with the, you know, two things things happened about the time I started to go to—I graduated from high school and left to go to college. One is [Walt] Disney [World] opened up, and the other is that UCF [University of Central Florida] was established in our backyard here. And Disney really was the beginning of Orlando being a tourist destination. It had been a wintertime destination for a hundred years, almost, but it had not been a year-round tourist destination until [Walt] Disney established Disney World here. UCF, being so close to Oviedo, changed Oviedo in that it brought in not only the teachers, professors, but all of the services that a large university requires, and, of course, the students. And so, it makes Oviedo a little bit more of a bedroom community to that college—doesn’t make it—Oviedo’s not the classic college town, but it is definitely a bedroom community to UCF. My perspective, because I left for college and didn’t come back to Oviedo—I lived in Apopka after that to run that farm, and just moved back fairly recently. I lived in Apopka for 35 years, but had lots of interests here. My family was here so I was, you know, monthly I was in Oviedo. And so I could see Oviedo change without being part of that change, you know, sort of being distanced from that change. Morris Okay. Clonts And really, not easily described, but a very constant growing and getting less and less dependent on agriculture, more and more dependent on the high-tech industries and moderate. You know, medium manufacturing, light manufacturing, and of course, tourism. Morris As a farmer, did you see UCF and Disney World as problematic for your business or for your community in Orlando? Clonts No, no. You know, you don’t try to rail against progress. It is—and you adapt to it. So, our family’s operation adapted as needed to those, and one reason why we closed the Oviedo farms down and just concentrated on our Zellwood operation was because that was the more modern farm of the last part of the 20th century, and the Oviedo farm was the farm of the first half of the 20th century. Morris Okay, sir. And since then both have farms have been closed down, correct, sir? Clonts Yes. We sold our Zellwood farm to the State of Florida as part of a restoration project to clean up Lake Apopka. Morris Okay. And that was 1979? Clonts No. No, we shut that down, sold that in 1998. Morris Oh, okay, sir. And have you been working elsewhere since then, or traveling, or… Clonts Yeah. We had citrus groves, and we expanded those after selling out the vegetable operation, but basically downsized. I said I retired when I sold the vegetable operation, because I work so much less now than I did back then. But I still stay busy and enjoy growing oranges. You know, even the citrus business has evolved. When I was on the outside, I didn’t think the citrus business changed very much in, you know, my whole lifetime. And then once I got involved in it, I realized it is evolving. So it’s an interesting business to be in. I really enjoy it. Morris How has it evolved? Clonts Well, we were, once again, especially around Oviedo, there were lots of small orange groves. You could send a man on a tractor down the road. If your farm was right here, you could send a man out on over to Casselberry or up to Lake Mary on a tractor pulling an implement, have him do work that day, and drive back in the evening to do work on a ten-acre grove. Now, the liability exposure of putting a tractor on the road, you wouldn’t do—you know, you couldn’t make enough money on a ten-acre grove to just cover the liability exposure. So, groves now tend to be large blocks of a hundred acres, 75 to 500 acres. Anything less than that is pretty hard to caretake. Irrigation systems—groves weren’t irrigated except by portable aluminum pipe. In real dry times in the spring, you would hook portable irrigation pipe to a pump and irrigate down that row—and for two or three hours—and you would shut the pump down, move that pipe through the grove, and reassemble it, and water another strip. Now everything is micro-jet, where there’s a sprinkler under every row, under every tree, year-round, a permanent micro-sprinkler. The irrigation’s mostly done by a timer and moisture sensors in the ground so that you don’t—nothing’s ever touched once it’s installed out there. Morris Oh, okay. Because all I ever see of the orange trees, sir, I don’t get to see underneath the ground. I didn’t know what changes had occurred. Clonts They’ve all got a sprinkler underneath them now. Morris Okay. Clonts And we’re planting much closer than we used to. Trees used to be planted on a 25’ x 25’ spacing. Now, generally, you plant on a 12’ x 24’ spacing, so there’s a lot more trees to the acre, and everything’s worked one way down a row instead of two ways, like they used to do it in a grove. Used to be able to drive down two ways. It’s starting to rain. Do you believe that? Morris No. Clonts Did you leave your windows down? Morris No, sir. Clonts Okay. Morris No. It must be that one random cloud, right there. That’s the one catch about Florida. You never know when it’s gonna rain, even with the sunny skies. Clonts Wow. I’m so surprised at that. I can’t—I wouldn’t have thought it’s gonna rain today, as cool as it was this morning. Morris On the plus side, it doesn’t snow randomly. Clonts Nah. Well, not very often. Morris I think I’ve seen it snow in Florida one time. Clonts Yeah. Morris But the snow disappeared before it hit the ground, and that was in the late ‘80s. Clonts Yeah. Morris Have you ever seen it snow in Florida, sir? Clonts Yeah. Yeah, about three different times I’ve seen where snow stayed around. Morris Really? Clonts Yeah, but not—the Christmas freeze of 1983. Snow stayed in shady spots for two days. Morris Wow. Would not have expected that from Florida. Clonts Yeah. Morris You said you still have the citrus industry as the business. Do you still do cattle, or ... Clonts Well, the Clonts family never was in the cattle business, but we owned pasture land. Morris Oh, okay. Clonts And so, we’ve never been involved directly in the cattle business, but we know it well because we’ve always had land that we leased to my cousins and to other cattlemen who ran the cows, kept up the fences, and paid their lease for all that. Morris Okay. Clonts So, was a way of having a ranch that was active cow ranch without having to be hands-on day-to-day in the business. Morris Okay, sir. And I’m assuming that made it a lot easier, then? Clonts Oh, yeah. Basically, you’re just a landowner. In the cow business, we’ve just been a landowner and landlord to the cattlemen. Morris Okay, sir. Clonts And it’s my mother’s brother, Robert Lee, was very involved in the cattle business all his life, so they leased most of our land. Morris Okay, sir. Jumping off subject, you mentioned when you went to college. You were old enough to go to UCF, were you not? Or was UCF ... Clonts I could’ve gone to UCF, and instead I chose to go to University of South Florida down in Tampa. Morris Oh, really? I didn’t even realize that university was as old. Clonts Yep. Morris So you’re a Bulls fan, then? Clonts That’s right. Morris My best friends would love to hear that. I, however, went to Florida State [University]. Clonts Oh, yeah. Well, that’s another good school. Morris It’s a good school. Are there any particular historical events that come to mind, when you think over the course of your life, sir, that stick out? Clonts Hm. You know, thinking back into my childhood, I remember one that was—and I don’t remember what the year was, probably was about 1961 or ’62—a jet aircraft flying a training mission out at what was then Sanford Naval Training Center [Naval Air Station Sanford], crashed just a few hundred feet from the edge of what is now Lawton Elementary School, but it was the Oviedo High School, which had all twelve grades at that time. And being in class, and hearing that crash, and all the flames and all the confusion afterwards. The pilot died in that crash. You know, one of those things you never forget. But I have forgotten the year. [laughs] So I guess I do forget it. Morris Oh, okay. But you remember the event though, right, sir? Clonts I remember the event. Morris What grade were you in at that time? Clonts It seems like I was in about seventh or eighth grade, something like that. Maybe I was younger than that, because my memory’s still pretty fuzzy. But still it was—I remember the confusion. Morris And was it over by the next day? Did you return to classes normally? Clonts Oh, yeah. And, you know, it was the talk of the town for months and months, but things got back to normal fairly quickly—not, you know. Military jets were still, at that time, you know—it was the new technology. Morris Right. Clonts So it wasn’t—we heard jets flying, but, you know, you didn’t see that many jets back then. Morris Unless they crashed right outside your school. Clonts Unless they crashed next to your school. Morris Then it’s hard to miss them. What kind of relationship did the community have with the military—the base—right there? Especially the farmers. Clonts Oh, I think it was a good relationship. You know, Florida was—a lot of people who were in the military during World War II, when they got out, ended up coming back to Florida, because Florida had been such a good place for military bases in the ‘40s. Got the climate where you can train year-round, you know. It’s a whole lot better being stationed on a base in Pensacola than it is in upstate Michigan in the wintertime. So Florida had lots and lots of bases that trained soldiers of all types in the 1940s. As I said, a lot of those people got a taste of Florida, and once they were out of the military, and maybe got married, and—you know, said, “I know where I want to go.” And they moved back to Florida. Morris Can’t blame them. Clonts Nope. It’s been happening ever since. Morris It has, sir. It has. It’s still, I think—it’s still known for its military bases being more preferable to work—train—here. Because you have some of them in Jacksonville, some still down in Tampa. Clonts Sure. Morris Yeah. Is there anything we haven’t covered, discussed today sir, that you wanted to make sure we got to? Clonts No, I didn’t have any agenda, and I don’t think I’ve done a very good interview. I think I’ve done a pretty average job at this. I remember when fire ants had first gotten into Texas—because fire ants are not native to Florida—and, so fire ants in the mid-‘60s were getting into the state from the coastal states, but they had originally come in in Texas and then spread from there, and the [Douglas] DC-3 airplanes would fly on ant bait over the whole state. They would take a grid of eight miles by eight miles, and they would systematically fly at about three or four hundred feet high, dropping ant bait on a hundred percent of the ground surface. Morris Ant bait was ... Clonts Well, the ant bait was to try to kill fire ants that were coming into the state. Obviously was not successful. Morris Obviously. I didn’t even know they weren’t native to Florida. I just kind of figured they were native everywhere. Clonts No. [laughs] They seem like it now. Morris Yeah. Clonts You know, that’s something that I don’t think you’d see happen today. I mean, there’s new pests now coming into the state of Florida, but at the rate of two or three a year. And you know, we’ve got pythons in the Everglades—that the idea of trying to eradicate an insect like that once it’s got established in the state is probably never going to happen again. Morris Probably not, sir. Did that cause any kind of panic or worry with the farmers? If they took it seriously enough to be spraying the entire state to try to get out fire ants? Clonts Well, fire ants had been—fire ants are a pest, but you just learn to live with them. I mean, fire ants can kill a newborn calf if that calf gets born in the field, and the mother cow drops that calf in an ant pile. I mean, fire ants cause damage to livestock right now. They can kill a newborn calf, but that’s not a high rate of mortality, because it doesn’t happen too often, so it’s not something we try to eradicate anymore. But there was a time when there was a very organized war on fire ants. Morris Who organized this war? Clonts Well, it was at the request of citizens, but it was the government and Ag departments [Department of Agriculture], and so on. Morris Okay. When you say fire ants, you’re talking about the red ones? The black ones had already been here, correct? Or did they both come at the same time? Clonts There’s lots of species of native ants here, some of which bite and some which don’t. Morris Okay. Clonts But the fire ant is the one that, you know, when you step in the mound, you just get swarms of them. Morris Right. There’s one in my front yard. Clonts Yeah. I take those out every time I see one. I get the ant bait out and kill it. But I don’t try to eradicate them all over the state. Morris That would be a little extreme, wouldn’t it? But, is there anything else, sir? Clonts No. Morris All right, sir, this has been invaluable. I really appreciate it. Thank you for letting me come over and talk to you today. Clonts You bet. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/cd78f4769e8e45b85bf170fe15b385fe.mp3" target="_blank">Oral History of Rex Clonts, Jr.</a> agriculture ants Apopka Black Hammock C. R. Clonts C. R. Clonts Associated Growers C. S. Lee cattle cattle ranch cattle ranches celery Central Florida Charles Simeon Lee citrus Clonts, Thelma Lee farmers farming fire ants Florida Avenue Historical Society of Central Florida irrigation Joseph Morris Lake Apopka Lake Charm Lawton Elementary School Linda McKnight Batman Oral History Project Mitchell Hammock mules Museum of Seminole County History NAS Sanford Naval Air Station Sanford OHS orange groves Orange Memorial Hospital oranges orlando Oviedo Oviedo High School Rex Clonts, Jr. Rex Clonts, Sr. Robert Lee Sanford seed bed seed beds Seminole County Slavia Tampa Thelma Lee Thelma Lee Clonts tourism UCF University of Central Florida University of South Florida USF Walt Disney Walt Disney World Walter Elias Disney Zellwood https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/fce724952773f51471717fce7ed72c54.pdf 0fd076b6610ed90aeadf407cf5e14674 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Richard Lamberty Alternative Title Oral History, Richard Lamberty Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description An oral history interview of Richard Lamberty, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus, same-sex ballroom dancer, and software developer. This interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the Center for Humanities and Digital Research at the University of Central Florida (UCF) in Orlando, Florida, on October 11th, 2016. Some of the topics covered include a biographical summary, his educational history, discovering dance, his family history, his relationship with his father, same-sex ballroom dancing, the Orlando Gay Chorus, Orlando Cloggers, becoming a dance instructor, losing communication and physical skills from rheumatoid arthritis, world travels as a dance instructor, homosexuality in Japan, the end of his dance career, North American Same-Sex Partner Dance Association (NASSPDA), the history of same-sex dancing, the kinesiology of dance, Dance Vision International Dancers Association (DVIDA) American Smooth Bronze Syllabus manual, reasons for joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, the mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub and its aftermath, the Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses (GALA) Festival, being a public figure and representing Orlando, violence against homosexuals, meeting a transsexual Muslim, the John F. Kennedy Space Center (KSC) vigil for victims of the Pulse massacre, homosexuality in the space and defense industry, turning tragedy into positive change, gun control reform, the community response to Pulse tragedy, the significance of the rainbow flag, the long-term consequences of the Pulse tragedy, and the rise of fundamentalism. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:03:06 Family 0:07:24 Same-sex dancing and the Orlando Gay Chorus 0:11:06 Living with rheumatoid arthritis 0:13:43 Changing attitudes towards homosexuality in Japan 0:18:05 History of same-sex dancing 0:25:04 Dance Vision International Dancers Association (DVIDA) and the kinesiology of dance 0:30:13 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus 0:36:00 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub 0:48:08 Achievements in computer science 0:50:36 2016 GALA Choruses Festival and abuse against the LGTBQ+ community 1:01:01 Singing at John F. Kennedy Space Center and gun control 1:06:37 Community response to Pulse tragedy 1:09:11 How the Orlando Gay Chorus can influence political and social change 1:17:07 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Richard Lamberty. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida, on October 11, 2016. Type Moving Image Source Lamberty, Richard. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, October 11, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 1-hour, 18-minute, and 03-second oral history: Lamberty, Richard. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts, Orlando, Florida GALA Choruses Festival, Denver Performing Arts Center, Denver, Colorado Japan Orlando, Florida Pulse, Orlando, Florida Rollins College, Winter Park, Florida University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Creator Lamberty, Richard Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2016-10-11 Date Copyrighted 2016-10-11 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.09 GB 283 KB Medium 1-hour, 18-minute and 4-second video recording Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Dance Teacher Provenance Originally created by Richard Lamberty and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Katalin, Lnyi. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/951006947" target="_blank">Same-Sex Ballroom Dance - A Challenge to Patriarchal Gender Order</a>. VDM Verlag, 2008. PeRez, Robert. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-12-27/news/DANCER27_1_dance-instructors-professional-dancer-same-sex-dancing" target="_blank">Orlando native overcomes odds, rules dance floor</a>." Orlando Sentinel, December 27, 2005. Accessed November 7, 2016. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-12-27/news/DANCER27_1_dance-instructors-professional-dancer-same-sex-dancing. Shepherd, Lindy T. "<a href="http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/who-leads/Content?oid=2253395#" target="_blank">WHO LEADS?</a>." Orlando Weekly, March 30, 2006. Accessed November 7, 2016. http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/who-leads/Content?oid=2253395#. Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/K2rphgLl1sQ" target="_blank">Oral History of Richard Lamberty</a> Transcript Cravero Alright. Let’s see. This is Geoffrey Cravero, and I’m conducting an oral history with Richard Lamberty of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted in the conference room of the Center fo—of—Center for [laughs] Humanities and Digital Research at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on Tuesday, October 11th, 2016 [clears throat]. Lamberty Which, by the way, happens to be National Coming Out Day. Cravero National Coming Out Day. I saw the s—I saw the sign earlier. Excellent, good timing. So, uh, Mr. Lamberty, thank you for speaking with us today. If you would, let’s start by having you state your name and telling us a little about where you’re from. Lamberty Richard Lamberty. L-A-M-B—as in boy—E-R-T-Y. Um, I was born in Chicago, Illinois, and we moved to Orlando when I was five. Um, we stayed here until I was 16, and then we briefly moved to Maryland, where I graduated high school, and then I came back to Orlando and attended Rollins [College], um, and then after Rollins, I actually came to UCF[1] for almost two years, during which time I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and they put me on a medication. Um, one of the side effects of that medication was I lost the ability to read, write, and speak, and so I was unable to complete my graduate degree at that time, um—ended[sic] up moving to New Mexico, where my parents had gone, and enrolled in the university out there to, uh, work in their computer science artificial intelligence department, which by the time I got there, was gone, and so there was not a single person left on campus that even knew that I existed, and there was no one to help me with paperwork or any of the transfers of credit or anything. It was start over. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty [laughs] Um, continued to work on the degree out there, but got hired to work on a NASA[2] project that I did for five years, and then moved to California, where I stayed for another 18 years, before coming back to Orlando in 2005, um, basically, to be closer to family, and so I have lived here in Orlando ever since. Um, I started dancing—you were ask—gonna ask about the dancing thing—I started dancing when I was 10 years old, and I danced first with the Orlando Cloggers, which was a—a youth, square-dance clogging group that was sponsored by the City of Orlando, and from that I got involved in what’s called “round dancing,” which is kind of a hybrid between square dancing and ballroom dancing—ballroom dances and figures, but it’s cued in the same way that a square dance is called, and then directly involved in ballroom from that, and, uh—but because of the arthritis issues then it was like, This is not gonna be what I do with my life. I have to have something else to do, but as long as I’m able I can dance, and I’ve continued to do so for most of my life, um, and that’s taken me all over the world. In fact, I just got back from two weeks in Europe, where I was teaching for the 22nd year that I’ve been over there teaching at this event in Germany. Lamberty Um, you know, life in Orlando—mostly what my life about[sic] here is I’m taking care of my elderly mother. I am her primary caretaker, and, um, and then I do what work is available to me, in addition to that, and, you know, in my field if it can be, so designing software, computer systems and things, or doing people’s websites and such, but, um, mostly my life is about dealing with family, taking care of family. Cravero And, uh, what d—what did your family do? It was your—did your mother work? Or… Lamberty Uh, my father was an electrical engineer. Um, he had seven children. I’m the fifth of seven, and, uh, so my mother was basically a stay-at-home mom for a lot that, and then didn’t start really working until I was about 16, um, in Maryland, and then… [phone rings] Lamberty Go away. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And don’t do that again. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty I’ll make that stop. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty I should’ve thought of that first. Cravero Oh, that’s alright. Lamberty The only person who can make my phone ring now is my mother. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty [laughs]. Okay, um, my father was an electrical engineer. He did a wide variety of things for Swift[?] Martin Marietta [Corporation]. Well, actually, in Chicago, we moved down here for a job at Martin—which was before it was Lockheed Martin—and then, um, up to Maryland. Hated it. Cold weather. Not a[sic] interesting job for him. Came back to Florida at Harris Corporation, where they got involved with the satellite project, um, and then eventually ended up with TRW [Inc.] Space and Defense and retired from them. Um, I worked with TRW Space and Defense—was my first real job in my industry, and then, um, that—on the same project as my father, which was an extraordinary privilege. My father was brilliant and exceedingly humble, um, but just this brilliant man, and I had the privilege of spending five years working with him, and just, you know, being around that mind every day and seeing how he viewed the world, which was fascinating because growing up I didn’t experience my parents quite that way. Um, I grew up in a household where debate was the normal form of communication [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty You know, and I never knew what my parents thought about anything, because if one of ‘em would say something, the other one’d automatically take the opposite position, and so what did, you know—what did either of them actually believe about the world was almost impossible for me to determine, and, um, you know, in that time period, I actually got to learn about my father, and one of the things that I learned was that he wasn’t ashamed of me, because growing up, he never spoke to me, um, and I—I didn’t know why. It turned out he didn’t speak to me because he was partially deaf and he couldn’t hear me. So when my voice really changed then he could hear me, you know? Alone—the two of us, then he could hear me, and I walked into—he worked in a trailer in the desert, and I walked into his office one day for some reason, and on the wall was a framed poster of a dance exhibition that I had done when I was at Rollins, and I went home and I said to my mother, “Did you know that Dad has the poster from Rollins on the wall in—office?” And she said, “Oh, yes. Your father’s very proud of you,” and up until that very moment, what I had assumed was that he was embarrassed about me because I was a dancer and, you know, not like his other sons, and that really—that wasn’t true. So, you know, that was just—it was remarkable, and, you know, in an era where being gay was not okay, you know, having the security clearance and being gay was not okay, um, it was a very hard thing to do, um, and, you know, my parents were very Catholic. Uh, you know, like “know the pope” kind of Catholic. Um, there’s a photograph of my mother with John Paul II—just the two of them. You know, so it was a, you know—that was not okay. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And yet, there this poster was. It was an incredible experience. Um, but no. When I came back to Orlando, I continued to dance, and I had gotten involved with same-sex ballroom dancing. Uh, you know, two men dancing together, two women dancing together—which again, two women dancing together has always been socially acceptable; two men dancing together has not, and so, um—and I had a partner here in Orlando. We trained, we worked hard, we eventually won world titles together, and then he quit, and I didn’t have anything to do, so I had heard the [Orlando Gay] Chorus sing, and I thought, I can try this. I don’t sing, but I can try this, you know? I was in chorus in seventh and eighth grade, but, um, I didn’t get a good grade, and when I asked the teacher why she told me I didn’t have a good voice, and so I quit singing, and I never sang again. I mean I wouldn’t sing “Happy Birthday” to people for 35 years. So I joined the chorus and then, you know, started singing with them, and it was fun. It was—I didn’t have to be good. There were [laughs] zero expectations that I actually be good at anything. Not like work, not like dancing, you know—just show up, sing, gave a good time, and, you know, as it happens, apparently, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m okay as a singer, and, you know, had the—the privilege of being a part of the chorus now for six years, and it’s really—it is—it’s a lot of fun. Wonderful thing. Cravero That’s fantastic. Um, so, uh, can you tell us a little more about how you got involved in, uh, ballroom and Latin dancing? Um, what sort of work, uh, did you do as a board member on the—I saw that you did… Lamberty Oh. Cravero The North American Same-Sex Partner Dance Association [NASSPDA]… Lamberty You Googled me. Cravero I Googled. Lamberty Yes. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty Okay, my parents were square dancers. They had taken a square dance class here in Orlando, and they had what was called “hoedown,” which was in the parking lot of the, uh, um, uh, Colonial Plaza Mall in where—what now would be the—I guess the Walgreens or the CVS is in that corner—that was parking. They put up a tent one day and they just had the square dance callers with a whole bunch of people, and people were dancing in the parking lot [door closes], and I saw the Orlando Cloggers perform, and that’s what I wanted to do. I wasn’t quite old enough yet. You had to be 10 and I wasn’t 10 yet, and so as soon as I turned 10, then I could start the classes, and it was amazing. It was run by the city. It was $5 per family for the season—not $5 a week, not $5 a person. It was $5 for the entire thing—for three of us to go and take the classes, and I loved it. I thought it was awesome. I loved the dancing, so, you know, I learned to clog, I learned to square dance, and then I learned the round dancing, which was like ballroom, and, um, we moved to Maryland when I was in high school, and I can dance, and I got a job at an independent ballroom dancing studio as a dance teacher at the age of 16. I—and this is 1975—’75 —’76 —and I was making $16 an hour, which is basically still what a—a beginning dance instructor makes—same—same thing—but I was making $16 an hour teaching dance lessons, and I think the minimum wage was $2.85 [laughs]. So it’s like, Woo hoo. I had money. It’s like I’m 16 years old, I’ve got this job that I can—that I love, and I have money. It was amazing and—and I loved the dancing. Um, when I developed [rheumatoid] arthritis and—you know, what they told me was I’d never walk again. I was 100 percent disabled, and that was while I was here at UCF. You know, the campus was not that big, as it is now, but I couldn’t walk across campus, and the medication had this profound effect on me. I—I couldn’t communicate, um, you know, I couldn’t write coherently, I couldn’t make sense of what I was reading, and I couldn’t—I could not talk intelligently, um, and fortunately, there was a professor here in the Computer Science Department who understood what was going on, and she advised me to, you know, get the medical records brought in and have my record expunged and sealed so that all of that failing grade stuff that showed up, because of that, would not show up on my transcript ever, and without that I would have simply just failed, uh, graduate school, and probably never been able to get back in, um, and then, you know, got enough better that I could move and get back into school and get a job that was, uh—that I loved, um, and tried to dance, you know, as best I could, and it wasn’t always easy physically. I was—I was allergic to the non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, and so any of them that I would take would cause some kind of a very unpleasant neurological side effect, so it was just better to be in pain. So basically, for 30 years—so I just lived in pain, and didn’t tell anybody. You didn’t talk about it. Um, you know, if it was a bad day, you just tried to dance with your partner not touching actually, you know? It’s like you’re s—and don’t say. Don’t s—never tell anybody why you can’t do anything, you know? Um, yeah, it was really horrible, um, pretending, you know—pretending about a lot of things—pretending about being okay, pretending about not being gay, pretending about, you know, that my brain was working normally when it wasn’t. Basically, life was a whole lot about pretending a lot of things, and very painful—physically, psychologically, emotionally painful experience to live that way all the time. But, yeah, I got, you know—I danced as much as I could, and slowly, slowly over time. Basically, most dancers peak in their late 20s or early 30. It’s like, Mm, yeah. Not until I was in my late-40s, [laughs] you know, and, um, you know, d—did what teaching I could over the years. I mean, I’ve been traveling to Europe for over 20 years and teaching there, um, uh, various places around the United States, Canada, Japan. Uh, we did—a couple years ago, we did a three week tour in Japan—six different teaching events while we were there. It was just amazing—which in and of itself was fascinating because, you know, there’s a large community of dancers in Japan, and they knew of me and they—they would—when they would come to the United States, there[sic] was[sic] always be at the events that I was at, um, and they brought people over all the time to teach, and I asked—was a big, big international convention that I was teaching at—there was a huge group of Japanese there, and I got invited to the room party with the Japanese—was the only white person at this party, and, um, so I asked, you know—it’s like, you know, “When will I get invited to Japan?” And this—there was this discussion. This rapid discussion in Japanese, and the woman who spoke English best took me into the—the bathroom in the connected hotel rooms and closed the door and said to me, “We cannot invite you.” I was like, “Well, why?” And she goes, “Because whoever invites you would have to accept your shame.” I was like, “Oh.” So when I got contacted a couple years ago about coming over, there was an American woman living in Japan—I didn’t know her history, but she was an American woman living in Japan with the dancing—and so I wrote to her and said, “I’d love to come, but, you know, you need to know,” and she said to me, you know, “It’s not how it is now.” Things changed. Things changed because finally, the Japanese government had to acknowledge that there were people in Japan dying of AIDS,[3] and so everything changed when they acknowledged that—that these are Japanese people; therefore, they’re Japanese, and the laws changed, and the way that people behaved changed, and now it was just not a problem, and this was like, you know, social change on this huge scale in a couple of years, you know? Things that we have been fighting for in this country for 20 or 30 years and still don’t have—that they could achieve because, as a society, it’s more important that you’re Japanese than it is that you’re gay, you know? So she arranged this trip, we went, we had this amazing time, and it didn’t matter at all, you know? It didn’t matter at all. It matters more here than it does there. Um, you know, I mean I’m—and I still—I love dancing. Although at this point, I’m probably done. I don’t have a partner anymore. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And if I can’t dance on a regular basis then I lose the ability to dance, which anybody would. Any skill that you’ve developed, if you don’t use it, you lose it. It’s, you know—especially physical skills, but in my case, it’s not just that. Dancing’s what’s kept me well. Um, if I don’t move, I can’t move, and I’ve tried other things. I’ve, you know, gone to gyms, I’ve done swimming, I’ve done all kinds of things. The only thing that’s been really effective is the dancing that I do, and so basically, you know, 47 years of dancing and I don’t have a partner. If I don’t have a partner, I can’t dance. If I can’t dance, I don’t know how long it is that I can walk. That’s the equation. I mean, you know, we talked—I—walking over here from the parking garage was an ordeal, and that’s been, you know—it’s four—four months that I haven’t danced regularly. Going to Germany and having to dance all day, every day, you know? It’s like the first day was just horrible, and after that it was like, Oh, dancing. My body is happy. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty “It’s fine.” Yeah, so I get distracted easily. It’s okay [laughs]. Cravero Oh [laughs]. Lamberty [laughs] I’m chatty. Cravero Um, I was gonna—I have a question following up on that—is, um, what kind of—did you face any sort of challenges, um, early on, um, in a same-sex partner dance organization? Like what did you… Lamberty Oh, you were—asked about NASSPDA.[4] That was not the first. Cravero Mmhmm. Lamberty Um, the first organization kind of disappeared. It[?] was the United States same-sex dance, uh, organization that I was one of the founders of. I was also a—a—an honorary founding member of the European same-sex dance organization,[5] and then, at the same time that those two were formed, there was a world organization that was formed that I was on the committee that help form it, write the bylaws, was an officer of, and then there was a dispute about, you know: was that the right way to do this? Did it happen too fast? All that. So that organization shut down. The North American one disappeared, and a couple years later, the, um—or the U.S. one disappeared. Then the—they decided to do—try again, and we created the North American Same-Sex Partner Dance Association—NASSPDA—and I was, again, one of the founders, uh—original co—co-president with a woman, um, Barbara Zoloth, was one—one of my students for many years, and, um, you know, then—actually, I was the first honorary member of the organization when I went off the board. They voted me in, and, uh, you know—so I—I’ve been involved in the history of same-sex dancing in the United States since essentially its beginning. Um, I ran the first, uh—well, not the first. The first same-sex dance competition was a long time ago in New York—the first one we know of—but it was a one-time thing, and then nothing happened for years and years, but I put one together with, uh, my partner that[sic] I went to the Gay Games in 1998 with—Tom Slater—and a woman—a straight woman that[sic] was helping us—Ava Kaye—and, um, then the three of us decided this was important, and we put together, um, it was—I think it was “March Madness”—might have been the first one. It was either “March Madness” or “April Follies,” and then, the next one, you know—we did series of them that—that I ran with the two of them for many years, starting around 2000—2001—and then, when I moved away, I ran the next year remotely, you know, went back for it, but it was too much. So I turned it over to this organization—a non-profit in the [San Francisco] Bay area that has run it ever since, and so it’s the longest-running same-sex, uh, dance competition in North America, and longer than many of the ones in Europe, um, and, uh, so there’s the—you know, very small community of people involved in that in this country. We don’t have a history of partner dancing in this country in the way they do in Europe and other places in the world, but there are people that are[sic] really love it. It’s this wonderful thing to do. It’s social, it’s engaging, it challenges the mind and the body, um, it’s great exercise in a gentle way, um, and it’s fun. It’s just a tremendous amount of fun. Um, competing in the same-sex world is so different than the mainstream world. The mainstream world is very cutthroat, and the same-sex world is, you know, the—the—the people who’ve been to mainstream competition that come to one of the same-sex events is like, “What? It’s like, “You s—you act like you like each other. You know, this isn’t like a competition. It’s like a party. It’s a celebration,” and that’s exactly what it feels like. We are celebrating something that we can’t have. I mean there were rules against same-sex couples competing, uh, in regular competitions. Some of that has changed now, but there were rules against it. You weren’t allowed, you know, a—and it’s not just that you, you know, could if you wanted to. Y—you weren’t allowed, and while I wasn’t directly involved in a lot of the politics in the mainstream world to do that, um, I was behind the people who were, you know? I wasn’t—they hated me in the mainstream world of ballroom dancing from day one because I was an out[-of-the-closet] gay man doing ballroom dancing, and there were none. It was like, “Y—you can’t do that.” I got told when I was trying to compete as an amateur, and then as a professional, “Sh—y—you can’t be ‘out.’ You ca—you have to stop talking about this. You can’t bring a boyfriend.” I was like, “Yeah. No, I don’t—I y—I don’t need you to dance. I don’t do this for a living. You can’t make me,” and so—oh, they did not like me [laughs]. I mean I—when I was still trying to be an amateur, there were actually lawsuits filed against me. Try to keep me from dancing—trying to, you know, declare me “not an amateur.” I was—I had a sports lawyer. It was—I mean, I f—finally quit. I was spending about $5,000 a year defending my amateur status with the lawyer. It was like, This is ridiculous. This thing’s already so expensive. I was spending $20-25,000 a year dancing, and on top of that, I’ve got to spend lawyers’ fees? Nobody else has to do this. So I just—I gave up. I let them m—make me go pro, and then, you know, dance in Europe more than the United States, because in Europe nobody knows who I am. They don’t care. Then you get judged on the dancing. Uh, you know—you know, this thing that I’m passionate about. I just love doing it. I love teaching, I love dancing, you know? The, um—the next world championships for same-sex dancing is gonna be in Miami in August of 2017 at the, uh—the World Outgames, and I won’t be dancing, you know? I’ve—I’ve danced at every Gay Game since 1998. I’m the only one. The Gay Games in 1998 was the first time they had dancing, and my partner and I took third. We danced in Sydney[, Australia], and then, let’s see—it was, uh, Amsterdam[, Netherlands], Sydney[, Australia], I wanna say Chicago[, Illinois], Cologne[, Germany], Cleveland[, Ohio]. The next one’s Paris[, France] in ’18, and, uh—and then the Outgames. We danced in Montreal[, Canada] for the first one. We didn’t go to the next ones, and then, um—and then it’ll be Miami. I don’t have a partner. I don’t get to dance. It’s like a four-hour drive from where I live, and I won’t be dancing. It’s just so miserable. I don’t have a partner, and it’s something—you can’t do it alone, you know, and it’s really—you know, it’s hard to reflect on—the 47 years is coming to an end, and I don’t have a say in that. It’s just gonna happen. Cravero It’s tough [sighs]. Um, well, let me see. I—I—you already discussed, uh—I saw that you had to—you overcame rheumatoid arthritis, actually, in a profile I was reading online. Um… Lamberty Oh, was it the one in The Orlando Sentinel? Cravero I think it was, yeah. Lamberty Yeah. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty With a picture of me and the dog. Cravero That’s right. Lamberty Yeah. Cravero Then that was the one. Lamberty [laughs]. Cravero Um, oh… Lamberty You’ll see. Cravero I also saw there that you did, um—you were a technical consultant on the rewrite of a DVIDA[6] American Smooth Bronze Syllabus manual. Could… Lamberty Oh, yeah, DVIDA. Cravero Could you explain what that is and describe the work you did on that? Lamberty Um, DVIDA is, uh, oh, Dance Vision—D—Dance Vision International—DVIDA—of—Dance Vision International is the company. DA—o I don’t remember what it stands for. A friend of mine, um, Diane Jarmolow, that I used to coach and have known forever, um, she got—she contacted me about helping with the manual, which was very nice. It was great. It was really lovely to be asked, but I’m very technical. People know that I have this profound very deep understanding of dancing, which happened while I lived in New Mexico. Um, I couldn’t dance much. It was, you know, a 60-mile drive to the closest dance studio, which I would do. There[?] was a—a woman there that did some dancing that I could do, but we were only allowed to dance after the studio closed at night, ‘cause the owner didn’t want people seeing us because we didn’t fit the profile—she was the teacher there, and he was afraid that we would scare people off, you know? It’s like wrong level, wrong kind of dancing for what the studio was about, and so two weeknights a week, I would drive to El Paso[, Texas], be there at 10 o’clock at night, and dance ‘til midnight, and drive home and have to be at work at seven in the morning. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty Um, but, um, while I was there, I met this woman who did ballet, and her husband—fiancé was a PhD kinesiologist at New Mexico State University and he wanted a project, but, you know, at the time—this was when they were doing a lot of things with, you know, analyzing on video tape athletic performance, ‘cause they were looking at, you know, runners on treadmills or swimmers in float tanks or cyclists on stationary bicycles, and seeing, you know, how do you optimize the human body in motion—and he didn’t want to do any of that stuff. So what I did was taught his w—his fiancé how to ballroom dance while he analyzed what we were doing, which, basically, no one had ever done before. No one had ever looked at the—the—the actual human body while it was dancing in this way, and n—not just one body, but two—how two bodies worked together, and he did this analysis of it with—with knowing nothing about dancing. So all of the language of dancing that had been used for 80-90 years to teach it had nothing to do with what he wrote about… Cravero Right. Lamberty Or what he analyzed. So not, “Here’s what somebody has always said about what we’re doing,” but, “This is what the bodies are doing,” and I—so he wrote about that and then I got all that information, and then I had that, so I could write about dancing in—in the dance world, and I wrote papers that would get published about here’s why the feet do what they do, here’s the way that your hold actually works in the frame—you know, not what Patrick Swayze says about it in Dirty Dancing… Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty But what’s actually going on, and that kind of revolutionized the way that dancing was looked at all over the world, and my—my work got spread all over, um, and so because of that I became well-known for this level of technical understanding, and when Diane needed help with the new manuals they were writing, then I got an email. It’s like, “You willing?” It’s like [claps hands] yes.” [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty “I’ve been waiting for this.” Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty “Fix the stuff that’s wrong.” Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And so, yeah. I worked on those manuals, and, in fact, my former partner is now working on the new set. He’s up in, uh, Indiana, and he was actually just down here for three days to talk to me about it, ‘cause he’s actually—he’s now the consultant for the next set of stuff that’s being done, um, but yeah, I got a credit in the—in the—in the book and everything, and it’s like “technical consultant,” and it was all this weird stuff. What’s the difference between “brush to” and “brush toward”? What’s the difference between a “brush” and a “collect”? You know, it’s like how to—what’s the difference between “side and slightly forward” and “forward and slightly side,” and it’s like all this really technical stuff, which I’m well-suited to because I love language, you know, from my own issues with language—couldn’t speak for a long time. I love language. I’m a mathematician. So, you know, my—I had a double major at Rollins—mathematics and English—and the dancing is mathematical. The partner dancing is a—is a mathematical construct actually, and then I had all this understanding of what was going on because of this analysis that had been done by this PhD kinesiologist. It’s like, you know—it’s perfect. Love it. Cravero So cool. Lamberty Yeah. Cravero [laughs] So, um, could you tell us, uh—so you joined the, uh, [Orlando] Gay Chorus. You talked a little bit about how you got involved. Um, do you have a favorite production that you did that you can recall? Lamberty Um, no [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty It’s—it’s funny. I don’t have a sticky memory for lyrics. Lyrics are so hard for me to learn—that they don’t stick in my brain very well, and, uh, so, you know, people will say, “Oh, we sang this five years ago,” and I’m going, “Really? I was here then. Did we? I don’t remember,” um, but I—I love singing with the chorus. I—I have no interest in doing any of the solo stuff or anything like that. I have zero—I love singing with the chorus, and we do two major concerts a year—the spring and the holiday. Um, I like the spring concerts, but I tend to love the holiday stuff because the music is different, you know? The—the Christmas stuff, the holiday stuff in general—it’s just got this wonderful character, and, uh, learning—learning about music. I mean, I always had to know something about music because of the dancing. I played piano for several years and I—it was the first thing—I didn’t understand at the time, but it hurt. It got to the point where it hurt, and so I quit, and then I was a great believer in I’m young and healthy. Park across campus and walk, and, uh, at Rollins, I was in the math program. The math courses were on the fourth floor of the [Archibald Granville] Bush Science Center. I always took the stairs. I got to the point where I couldn’t climb the stairs. So I didn’t know what was going on, um, but, you know, how did I get involved with the chorus? My partner quit, and I thought, Well, I won’t be dancing. I need something to do that’s interesting, that will challenge my mind, that will be fun, that will get me out in the world, ‘cause I don’t have a regular job. I don’t meet people. I don’t, you know, have people at work. I don’t go out to lunch. I don’t meet people. So I’ll join the chorus. It’ll be fun, and it has been. It’s really lovely, um, but—and I was afraid to sing, ‘cause I hadn’t—I’d been told I didn’t sing well. Well, they didn’t care, you know? Now, it’s a little different. The—the chorus actually is[sic] improved dramatically from then. Well, you know, the work of Jim Brown—here at UCF—was our director at the time that I joined, and he did great work with the chorus, and now we have a new director, who’s very, very choral. Very, you know—the sound is gonna be the sound kind of thing, and, uh, I don’t know that I could get in now. You know, if I had—if I tried to join now, I doubt that they would take me. Now, I’m okay. I mean I’ve learned, but, you know, between the two of them, I learned a lot. Understanding a music that’s fundamentally different. I love that. I love learning, and then being with the group and doing. So, you know, particular thing that we sing that I like the best? No, no. I mean, every concert there’s something that I end up really loving, which is usually a surprise. It’s not the thing that I think at first that I’m gonna like, and, you know, something that’s not my favorite, you know—sing it anyway, um, and most of the stuff is like, Oh, this is fun or not, you know? Some things are more fun to sing. Some things—just the sound of them. We did, um, in the last concert before we went to Denver for GALA[7]—one of the things we sang was a song for—“A Prayer for Children,” and it’s an old s—piece. It was written, um, I think about Croatia during the [Croatian] War [of Independence] there, and it’s gorgeous. It’s hard, but it’s so beautiful. Um, when I first joined it was like I had to be surrounded by other people singing my part, and so it was—you know, it’s like, Mm. I can’t stand next to somebody who’s doing anything different than me. I don’t sing that well, and now, normally, where I get placed is standing next to the altos. I sing bass—I sing low bass. So it’s like bass, baritone—we usually sing the same thing, but not always—and then the altos, and so I’m standing next to an alto and the—in the front, and I can hear the rest of the chorus, and it’s so beautiful sometimes. I mean, there’s pieces that we do—the fun stuff I love. It’s great and fun to sing, but the s—I love the things that the sound of them is—it’s amazing to experience, and that’s what I’ve always looked for in the dance music, you know—the sound of the music that I choose for my own choreography is what I’m interested in, but, you know, chorus is great. It’s—it’s always been interesting to belong, you know? There’s—like any other human endeavor and organization, there’s groups that form and factions, and the politics of it and all that. It’s normal. I’m used to that, but at the heart of it, there’s this thing that we’re doing something that matters as a group. Um, when the chorus was formed 26 years ago, you know, the—the small group of people that did that, they were risking, you know, employment. You know, to be associated with a gay group publicly like that, many of them could have been fired for it. Um, it was a brave thing to do then, um, and y—you know, it’s not like that n—now. We belong. It’s okay in Orlando. But, you know, this summer’s been kind of insane. We had had our concert, and the—the weekend of the shooting at Pulse there were several things going on. Um, every year right around that time there is the Orange Blossom [Dance] Festival, which is a big country western dance competition, and I always try to go. Um, well, at least one night, go by, dance and visit with people, ‘cause I know a lot of people, and if like—convention friends—you see them once a year, and—‘cause I don’t go to the other stuff, and I’m not a country western dancer, but some of these people do other things. Some of them are involved in the same-sex ballroom, um, and it’s often my birthday, ‘cause my birthday’s June 11th, and so, normally what would happen is I would go on the Saturday. It’s the better night. If you go Friday, people don’t stay up that late ‘cause a lot of them have to get up in the morning and compete—dance with their students or dance in some way, and Saturday’s better. A lot of the competition is over. The stuff on Sunday is different, and so, you know, go there, dance all evening. Around midnight or so, get a group of people and we’ll go out. Go someplace where there is music, um, and—music that you can dance to—partner dance to, and that has, in fact, been Pulse in the past, eh, when it matched up. Latin Night—if it was going on—e could go there and dance. That’d be great. Um, this year, I went on Friday because Saturday night we had one of our, uh, non-outreach—there’s another word—I—I forget this word every time I go to do it, uh—cabaret. We have three cabaret performances a year. One of them’s at the Parliament House. It’s called “Uncut.” It’s the raunchy one, and then we have the—the, um—the h—February Valentine’s Day one. That’s the love one, and then, the—we have the summer one, and this year, it was early in the summer. It’s often later, and, um—and it happened to be on that Saturday, and since it was my birthday weekend—I wasn’t singing. I—it was like, I’ll go, and they had these VIP’s tickets with the reception and the dinner and then the thing, and it’s like, I’ll go to that. So I had the ticket and I went. It was wonderful, had great time, and then it was done and nobody wanted to really go out, and I did not want to drive all the way out to this hotel and see what’s going on because it was late. Any other year, I would have been at the hotel with the dancers and we would have been going to Pulse and arriving about 12:30 and staying until they closed or later—make them stay open and play music. So I would have had, you know, 25-30 people from out of town, who just love to dance, be there with me, and I just, you know—when—I’m tired. I think I’ll go home. That was the decision. So Sunday morning, I wake up. I look at my phone and I—there’s all these text messages. “Are you okay?” “Are you okay?” And I’m thinking, It was one singer. Yes, I know we sing at The Plaza [Live], you know, People know we sing at The Plaza. I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m fine, and then I get into the shower and turn on the radio [laughs]. It was like, Turn off the shower, go back to the phone. It’s like, “Oh, my God. I—I had no idea,” you know—listening to the news. I was like, Wow, you know, nut for being tired, I would have been there. I would[?], uh—bringing people. So I don’t—I’m not a Facebook person really, but I looked to see, and I saw that there was gonna be a special Mass. The, um—there’s a gay, Catholic group in Orlando, and the priest who runs that, uh, used to sing in the chorus with us, and so I take my mother to Mass every Sunday—very Catholic—in Winter Park—St. Margaret Mary [Catholic Church] —very affluent—and, you know—and after Mass and I was waiting to see would[sic] they say anything, and they—and they did. Um, it wasn’t hugely specific, but it was, you know—they acknowledged what had happened, and the violence. Not that it was a gay attack or anything, but—but at least they acknowledged it at Mass, and we left immediately from there and went to the—to the place, which is a bar, you know? St. Matthew’s [Tavern at the Orlando Beer Garden]. Is—it used to be I wanna say Revolution—on Mills[Avenue]… Cravero Right. Lamberty Next to the [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Community] Center [of Central Florida]. Alright, that’s where they have Mass, and so we went, and, you know, we s—we went to Mass there, and, you know, at some point in the afternoon, there was a message that came out about—we had been invited to sing at, um, Joy MCC,[8] and I was like, “Absolutely, I’ll be there.” It was massive. When[?] you show up and there’s all these cameras, and they have relegated them to this corner in the back, and there’s[sic] way too many people, and there’s some seating reserved in the front for the chorus, and there’s not enough. There’s so many of us that showed up, and I felt terrible. I had to sit, ‘cause I—I couldn’t stand. My hip hurt, my knee hurt. I couldn’t—I couldn’t stand for the whole thing. I had to take a chair away from somebody else, you know, but—and then, it came time to sing. So we lined up in the front and, um, we had “True Colors” and, um, “You’ll Never Walk Alone,” and we sang, and, um, by the time I got home, you know, I looked at Facebook and there was a video that had been posted. It was CBS News, and the CBS newsman thought he was so clever. He had gotten the camera spot that was right in the center aisle, and so when we went to do “True Colors,” of course, that’s where the conductor stood, and right in front of him was the soloist, Caitlyn[sp], and so he had a completely blocked view [laughs] of the soloist. He couldn’t get her face—couldn’t get her face, but there’s the camera and there am I. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And out of this like two and a half minute video, about 60 seconds of it is on my face, and this got posted on Facebook, and re-p—tagged, and posted and posted, and by the time I got home, I had messaged from 11 countries, and it was overwhelming. I mean, you know—we didn’t know a lot yet. We didn’t even know really how many people were dead yet. I didn’t know whether or not I knew anybody. I did—nobody well, no close friends, but it’s a small community. You know—you don’t know what to do. You know what there was to do? Sing. As it happens, I don’t have a day job. So when we get asked to go and sing and—I can say, “Yes.” I can show up at one o’clock at UCF across town for something, or drive out to the [Orange County] Convention Center at crack of dawn and not worry about being late to work, or—I could show up. That’s what I could do, and it was fascinating to see. We had the Sunday night there and then Monday night at Dr. Phillips [Center for the Performing Arts] on the lawn, which was not supposed to be what it was, but turned into this thing, and—and it just started happening, and we had GALA [Choruses Festival] coming. We knew—and that was gonna change. Everything was gonna change. So we got invited to the—to sing at the formal thing at Dr. Phillips on the 28th.[9] I was flying out. I was going early. I have an ex-boyfriend that lives in Denver[, Colorado], and four years ago, I got to visit with him. This year, I was going to do the same. Go early, spend some time with him, meet the husband—you know, of 11 years that I had never met, um—and so I wasn’t—I wasn’t at the first concert at Dr. Phillips inside, um, and I had a few days. I mean, there had been so many things. I think Carol said that between June 20th—the 12th and the 28th, there were 20 outreach things that we did, and I lost count how many I did. You know, some of them were just the ensemble things and s—one or two people, but—but, you know, 20 things that the chorus was involved in, and I had like at least nine that I did in those few days, and I got to Denver, and I had time away from all of it, you know? It was no longer in the news every day, and not what everybody’s talking about. Just time—and, uh, people talk about processing. It was like, Oh, this is what that means. Time to really think—to—to stop and feel, and then GALA would come, and I knew—I knew what it was gonna be like. I mean, GALA’s crazy anyway, and it was gonna be different. We were gonna, you know—kind of like, if you’re gonna be a part of this, you accept an obligation about certain things. I’m used to—I’m used to being a public figure. Mm—I’m a—I’m well-known in the world of dancing. In the world of same-sex dancing, I’m the grandfather. I’m known. Um, I was well-known in my work in California. I mean, we didn’t talk about it, but I’ve—I’ve done things that people don’t understand, you know? I worked on—when you type on the computer and it offers you the corrected spelling[10] or look ahead,[11] I developed that for the very first system that ever had it—was the—the satellite control system that I did for NASA in the [19]80s. That didn’t become available for a very, very long time. I developed that. The very first clickable interface to purchase—“online shopping” is what we call it now—I developed that. The—the idea that you can get credit by filling out an online form, that was revolutionary. I did that. I designed that. Um, then when you go to an ATM[12] and you put in your money or your check, and it just reads it and tells you—instead of putting that in an envelope and writing on the envelope, and a person has to open it and count it. I did that—not—not for ATMs. Didn’t fit in an ATM when I did it. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty But that technology was something I developed. That’s what I worked on. I’ve done all these things with computers that have transformed the world as we know it, and that are now a part of everybody’s existence in the Western world, and how we just interact all the time, and my name is not on any of it. I have no patents. I’m not famous for any of it, but the people who were there, they all knew, you know? I walked into a room of computer nerds in the Bay area. Everybody knew who I was. I was the guy that had won a congressional award for software. There wasn’t anybody else that had done that and never has been, you know? I was the guy that walked up to Steve Jobs and told him he was wrong. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty [laughs] He was not happy with me. Um, and I—I know what it’s like to be public, and what the chorus was facing was—we were gonna be the face of Orlando—the face of Pulse at this huge thing. When somebody comes walking up and they have to say something to you, or they have to express how they feel, the obligation is listen. Let them. Let them feel what they feel. Let them share what they have to say. Because at that point, it’s no longer about us. People need the space to be able to express, to—to grieve, to process, and we were gonna be their outlet for doing that. James [A. Rode] was not exactly the kind of director that was used to talking a lot, especially in a performance. The first time he was involved with a performance of the chorus, we sang. He probably said six words to the audience. Not his thing. We were in the waiting area backstage and he spoke to us. We had this set of songs, carefully chosen—changed from what it was supposed to be. I mean, we had—our—our set for GALA was celebratory when we started. Had to change—the message had to change, and some of the music was not music that people wanted to necessarily be singing, um, but it told a story, and he talked to us. “We have an obligation. Find a connection to that music. Relay the message that we’re bringing. It’s hard,” you know, “There’s suffering, there’s pain, and there’s hope. It’s up to us. Create hope, create love.” Like it was beautiful. So we all walk onstage and we start to sing, as we [inaudible] the ovation, and, you know, you just have to stand there and take it. I used to teach people, “You just gotta stand there and take it.” I made my staff learn to be acknowledged. It’s not easy holding up. It’s not easy, and what did we do? Well, we have to live in Orlando and sing [sniffles]. [inaudible] cause is[?] [inaudible], and then, James read his statement to the audience. None of us had a clue what it said, and then—I mean—oh, God. The man’s eloquent, you know? He’s a schoolteacher, he’s educated, he knows how to write. It was good. It was devastating. It was like—and then, “Let’s sing.” It was like, Oh, no. You’ve gotta be kidding. It’s like—like—I—but, you know, at that point, it didn’t matter. We could’ve stood there and flapped our arms like birds and nobody would’ve cared, and so—but we tried. I mean, by the second verse—it was “You’ll Never Walk Alone”—by the second verse, we—we could maybe sort of sing, and the walkout into that crowd of people. I remember being in Washington, D.C., you know, mid-[19]90s in like the second March on Washington [for Lesbian, Gay, and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation]. Being on the subway when I lived in the Bay area—you know, one of gay centrals—it’s like, “No.” You know when you ride on BART,[13] you’re not safe. Doesn’t matter that it’s San Francisco[, California], you know? You—y—y—there’s a way of being circumspect, and I’m—I spent my whole childhood being abused because I was different. I didn’t understand that “different” meant “gay,” but they did. I went[?], you know—I—it was a normal part of my experience to be physically attacked on a regular basis. Thrown into lockers, you know, punched and hit—and that was just normal, and n—there was[sic] no adults who really cared. My mother asked me the other day it was like, “Where—wa—was I affectionate as a mother?” And I said, “Not to me,” And she was shocked—just shocked. It’s like, “I’m the wrong one to ask.” I didn’t let anyone touch me. From—from the day—first day of first grade—new school, you know, didn’t know anybody, new city—and the first thing that happened to me was to be attacked. Yeah, I didn’t let people touch me. Dancing was my way of touch. Other than that, no one touched me, you know? Not hug people, barely would shake hands. Not allowed to touch, and you walk out to this—wanting to hug you. I’m not good at hugging. You have to let people, and I had scheduled my flights that I would actually not stay to the very end. I was so grateful. I couldn’t take it anymore [sniffs]. At GALA, they have “coffee concerts” in the morning. They, um—a longer time slot to do something with. A very small, Canadian group had one of ‘em. It was very crowded. I managed to get a seat. It was marvelous. It was funny. Almost every one of the choruses added something in to acknowledge. you know, It was very—uh, um, I don’t want to seem callous, but it was like, you know, one more—“Thanks,” you know, [laughs] but—and the Canadians change theirs—program too a little bit, but what was fascinating to me was they had this woman in a hijab singing with them [sniffs]. She was fascinating. Soaring soprano voice, phenomenally animated—just, you know, capture everyone’s eye when she was onstage, and they—they sang a song in, um, not Farsi, but, um, Arabic, because of her, and, you know, it’s normal, you know? People are leaving the stage and you line the hallways and everybody comes in. Everybody [inaudible]. So I just waited. I waited. I waited. We had—we had, uh, you know—people had ribbons that we had made and stickers and the Pulse logos and there was like [inaudible], and I wanted to talk to this woman, and everybody wanted to talk to this woman. She had friends there—all this—and I waited, and finally. Finally, there was a camera crew following her around, and I just waited until she was kind of done and all settled down, and she saw me in the shirt—the shirt, and she looked at me and I looked at her, and I put out my hand and it had one of the Pulse stickers in it, and I said to her, “I want you to have this,” and it was extraordinary. Here’s this woman, who turns out isn’t a woman. She’s—she’s a transsexual in process, who is a convert to Islam, who decided to be Orthodox, found an organization in Canada that would accept her for who she is, you know? Coming to America to a major city after a shooting that’s related to, you know, an Islamic fundamentalist supposedly—not really, but that’s the perception—and as we stood there, we talked—I don’t know—20 minutes. It was amazing, and, you know, the stories that she had to tell. Just m—this is—this is what bravery looks like. I was like, “Let’s get the picture,” you know? I don’t do pictures. I always forget, but I have my picture with her. You know, put it on Facebook. It’s mine. There were—there’s been a lot of things. Um, one of the outreaches was at, um, [John F.] Kennedy Space Center, and not many people could go. It was like, workday, Tuesday, all day, have to be able to get on base. Not everybody would pass the minimal clearance requirements, um, but I could go, and, um, I was like, Oh, this’ll be interesting, you know? I wonder in anybody will know my project, and that was—it was—and, you know, when I worked with TRW Space and Defense, being gay was not a good thing, um, and when we show up it’s gonna be this auditorium full of people, who— ‘cause they have an organization now. It’s like NASA has an organization for gay people. Different world, and—and, yes, you know—people know the project that I worked on. It’s still a meaningful thing. People actually, you know, there were people who know my father’s name. It was amazing, and that was hard. That was—for me, that was the hardest one to sing there. There’s still—I just—we just went Sunday to the movie theater, ‘cause Tony Romero—I don’t know what his last name is—invited the chorus and a few other people, ‘cause Ellen [DeGeneres] gave him a showing of Finding Dory, which I did not see, and it’s like, Okay, this is lovely. Get to go—it’s changing. We get to reflect differently. We get to look to a future. The obligation to create something meaningful is on those who survive, who are after. It’s like funerals aren’t for the dead. They’re for the living. We’re living. We get to choose what this means. We get to choose what happens. I want—I want there to be a difference. I want the world to wake up and know, and I don’t want it to be because it was a gay club in Orlando, but something has to do it. You know, you take the populations of Great Britain, and Australia, Denmark, and Sweden, and, you know, several other countries combined—is less than the population of the United States, and we have, you know, up 50 times the murder rate that they do. It’s not just because we’re stupid; it’s because they have gun laws that are meaningful and we don’t. You know, Australia had a mass shooting[14] and they changed their world. It was sane. We’re insane. We’re living in an insane society. I want sanity. I’m tired of it costing lives. I don’t look forward to my birthday next year, ‘cause it’s gonna be, you know, the weekend of the one-year anniversary. I don’t want there to be a one-year anniversary. There will be. I’ll be there. I wish I didn’t have to. It’s so preventable. We have to be responsible for what happens next. I have to be responsible for what happens next. Cravero [clears throat]. Well, I guess, what sort of, uh—what would you hope the long-term consequences will be for the Orlando gay community, and really just for the city—the larger city or the—just maybe even society from this? Lamberty You know, [sighs] it was interesting. Um, after this, it’s like you’re driving around town and there’s rainbow lights everywhere, and like, you know, it was August. W—my brother was in town for the weekend or the day with this wife. They live in Melbourne[, Florida], and we were gonna go to brunch up in Longwood. Driving and getting off at the exit in I[nterstate] 4, it was raining, and it’s—and below it is the banner—“Orlando Untied”—with the rainbow flag. I was looking at it, it’s like [inaudible]. I took a picture out of the window of the car, and we got to the restaurant and, you know, had this wonderful brunch, and leaving the restaurant, they have one of those chalkboard things, you know—two-sided, and on the front side g—walking in is all the specials, and on the back side was the “Orlando Strong”—“Orlando United,” but, you know, I don’t—where was I? Longwood somewhere. Casselberry, and there is the CVS [Pharmacy] with the electronic sign out front that cycles through its set of stuff. One of which was “Orland Strong.” I was like—I think it would be beautiful if what would just happen is that we could be the “City of Rainbows.” W—let’s, you know, that—somehow [laughs] the gay community got the rainbow flag. It’s like, Wow, that was smart [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty I don’t know if they were actually planning that far in advance, but it was like, Wow, we co-opted the rainbow [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty It’s like, That’s awesome. It’s like “The City Beautiful.” It’s like “The City of Rainbows.” Wow, I would—I would love for all of these city buildings and—and banks and everything else just like keep putting up rainbows. They’re beautiful. We can create all the meaning we want from them. They’re beautiful. That would be a wonderful thing to have happen. Um, I would—I want gun control that makes sense. I don’t know that we’re gonna get it. I don’t know how we’re gonna get it, because we—our society is literally insane, but I would like that to be an outcome. I would like that, you know—we have this political season that we’re dealing with. We’re dealing with the rise of fundamentalism. People don’t understand what that means. Fundamentalism is a particular thing in philosophy. It’s—it’s not just an extreme point of view—that’s orthodoxy. It’s not just that “I’m right and you’re wrong.” It is: “I’m right, you’re wrong,” and the existence of other ideas, other beliefs cannot be tolerated, and must be suppressed or eliminated by whatever means necessary. That’s fundamentalism. We’ve seen it in religions—not just Islam. I mean, you know, American Christianity is full of its fundamentalism. “You will believe the way that I say it’s supposed to be or”—and when, you—political fundamentalism—“I’ll get what I want in this bill or this bill will never happen.” There is no such thing as compromise in fundamentalism. Nationalism is a form of fundamentalism. Brexit is fundamentalism. The rise of these nationalistic parties in Europe—that’s fundamentalism. You know, even the idea that the news doesn’t tell us the facts. They tell us how we’re supposed to feel about what happens. No, you don’t get to tell me how to feel, but somehow that’s become part of news. No, but that’s representive[sic] of fundamentalism. It’s, “You don’t get to have your opinion.” There is “the opinion” and that’s it. As long as that’s true, we’re not gonna see gun control. We’re not gonna see a society where it’s truly safe to be gay. We’ve made huge progress, but that doesn’t change the way that people think, or believe—believe is worse. Belief takes no foundation. There’s—doesn’t have to be proved, and anything that stands in the way of it can be discounted. We sing, you know—you know, we talk about the—what is our purpose? We’re gonna change hearts and minds from musical excellence. The opportunity that’s been presented to the Orlando Gay Chorus because of this horrific thing is phenomenal. We get an audience that we would never have had, and we get to stand up, and we get to sing, and we get to do it as a gay group, and people get to hear good music, good singing, and it has a message, and we’re gay. I—you know, I talked to the leadership in the chorus and said, “Don’t be afraid. It’s—you’re not—there’s nothing wrong—there’s nothing wrong with capitalizing on this moment.” We’ve said for a long time that we want to stand up and mean something. The opportunity’s been handed to us. The mistake would be to not take it. Say, “Yes.” Do these things. Put the message out there, and do it for the right reasons. I said to Tony the other day—the business manager—“You know, there are a lot of survivors in a lot of ways. Most of them can’t—can’t stand up and talk to the world. It’s not a part of who they are,” but he can, and I remember eighth grade. There was this thing happening, you know—one of the kids in school—and I went home and I complained to my mother about it, and she said, “Who did you talk to?” I was like, “No one. Not me,” You know, and she’s, “Well, you know? You should.” I was like, “Why?” It’s like, “Well, because you can.” So the next day, I marched myself into the principal’s office and complained on behalf of somebody who couldn’t. Those who can need to. Tony can stand up and talk to the world about his experience, and maybe change the world’s thinking—little bit by little bit by doing that. he should. He’s not opportunistic. He has a message that needs to be heard, and he’s capable of delivering it, and he can do that on behalf of victims everywhere. He should. The chorus has an opportunity. We should. We can. It’s not opportunistic. Yes, does it move our agenda forward—the agenda we’ve had f—long before this happened? Absolutely, but it’s still the right thing to do, and it’s for the right reasons, and that’s what we should do. We should keep saying “yes” to the opportunities that arise, and over time—it’s already happening—that they’re—they’re not about that anymore. We got to sing with the Second Harvest Food Bank [of Central Florida], because I go to their dinners, and I know the organizer there, and she likes me. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty And after this happened, she said to me, “You sing with the Gay Chorus.” I was like, “Yes, I do.” “I wanna talk to you about it.” I was like, “Not the right one to talk to, but, boy, can I get you in touch with the person who is,” and we got to do this amazing event for an audience who we would otherwise never touch. Changed the perception of a lot of things. We got to sing the national anthem[15] at the First Responders’ Breakfast. This is not a group of people who are gonna just suddenly say, “Oh, gosh. We need to have the Orlando Gay Chorus come and sing.” We’re gonna sing for the AFL-CIO.[16] It’s like Jimmy Hoffa’s[17] union.[18] Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty We’re gonna sing for them. The gay chorus in Orlando is gonna sing for Jimmy Hoffa’s union. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty That was not gonna happen before, and now, it is. So, you know, what’s gonna come of this? I hope that. I hope lots of things like that. I hope a dialogue, in music for us, that lets people have a different experience of what “gay” means, and then, maybe the world really can change. Cravero Thank you so much for sharing that with us today, Richard. I really appreciate it. Is there anything else you’d like to add? I mean I—that was a great—that was a great place to end, I think. Lamberty No, you don’t—you don’t want to get me started on Lucy.[19] It’s okay. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty [laughs] Read the blog.[20] Cravero We can always do a second interview. Lamberty [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty Read—read the blog on Lucy. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty Did you find my blog? Cravero I did. Lamberty Yeah. Cravero I did. Lamberty Yeah. Cravero Well, that’s an interview for another time. Lamberty Oh, yeah. Cravero [laughs]. Lamberty This—thank you. You know, it’s like—this’ll go into an archive, and—and who knows? Maybe some researcher a hundred years from now will look at it, but probably, other than that, nothing. Cravero Aw. Lamberty That’s okay. Cravero It’s fantastic. Well, this is, uh—this has been Geoffrey Cravero with Richard Lamberty in the conference room of the Center for Digital Humanities and Research at UCF in Orlando, Florida, on Tuesday, October 11th, 2016. <div> <div> [1] University of Central Florida. </div> <div> [2] National Aeronautics and Space Administration. </div> <div> [3] Acquired immune deficiency syndrome. </div> <div> [4] North American Same-Sex Partner Dance Association. </div> <div> [5] European Same-Sex Dancing Association (ESSDA). </div> <div> [6] Dance Vision International Dancers Association. </div> <div> [7] Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses. </div> <div> [8] Joy Metropolitan Community Church. </div> <div> [9] Of June. </div> <div> [10] Spell check. </div> <div> [11] Typeahead. </div> <div> [12] Automatic teller machine. </div> <div> [13] Bay Area Rapid Transit. </div> <div> [14] Port Arthur massacre. </div> <div> [15] The Star-Spangled Banner. </div> <div> [16] American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations. </div> <div> [17] Born James Riddle Hoffa. </div> <div> [18] Correction: Jimmy Hoffa was the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). </div> <div> [19] Lamberty’s now-deceased dog. </div> <div> [20] http://rexl.org/. </div> </div> 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting A Prayer for Children acquired immune deficiency syndrome AFL-CIO AIDS American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations April Follies ATM machines automated teller machine Ava Kaye ballroom dancers ballroom dancing Barbara Zoloth BART Bay Area Rapid Transit bullying cash machines Casselberry Catholicism Catholics CBS News Center for Humanities and Digital Research CHDR Christian fundamentalism Christianity coffee concerts Colonial Plaza Mall Croatian War of Independence dance instructors Dance Vision International Dancers Association dancers defense Denver Diane Jarmolow Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts DVIDA American Smooth Bronze Syllabus manual El Paso Ellen DeGeneres ESSDA European Same-Sex Dancing Association Facebook Finding Dory fundamentalism fundraisers GALA Choruses Festival Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses Gay Games Geoffrey Cravero GLBT GLBT Community Center of Central Florida gun control gun regulations gun violence Harris Corporation hate crimes hijab HIV hoedowns homophobia homosexuality human immunodeficiency virus infection James A. Rode Japan Jim Brown John F. Kennedy Space Center Joy MCC Joy Metropolitan Community Church Kennedy Space Center Vigil kinesiology KSC Latin Night LGBT LGBT Center of Central Florida LGBTIQ LGBTQ Lockheed Martin Longwood March Madness March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay, and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation Martin Marietta Corporation mass shootings NASA NASSPDA National Aeronautics and Space Administration New Mexico North American Same-Sex Partner Dance Association OGC online credits online shopping Orange Blossom Dance Festival Orange County Convention Center orlando Orlando Cloggers Orlando Gay Chorus Orlando Strong Orlando United Orthodox Muslims outreach events Parliament House Port Arthur massacre Pulse Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes RA rainbow flags religious fundamentalism rheumatoid arthritis Rollins College round dancing same-sex San Francisco Second Harvest Food Bank of Central Florida space spell check square dancers square dancing St. Margaret Mary Catholic Church St. Matthew’s Tavern at the Orlando Beer Garden Steve Jobs terrorism terrorist attacks terrorists The Center The Plaza Live Tom Slater transgender True Colors TRW Space and Defense Park TRW, Inc. Space and Defense typeahead UCF Uncut University of Central Florida vigils World Outgames You'll Never Walk Alone Yugoslav Wars https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9758a30bbef0211d459a0125540b3451.pdf c60e6d25aaa04eb52789bf35b14b4d1f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection Alternative Title Lone Sailor Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) United States. Navy Navy Sailors--United States Description Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando. Contributor <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Richard Tobias Sloane Alternative Title Oral History, Sloane Subject Veterans--Florida Navy Orlando (Fla.) Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Description An oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane (b. 1934), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1964 to 1969, during the Vietnam War. Sloane was born in Queens, New York City, New York, on March 4, 1934. In August of 1964, he was commissioned into the Navy. Sloane served in Vietnam from September of 1967 to September of 1968. He also served on the USS Rockbridge, USS Santa Barbara in River Section 35, the USS Garcia, the USS Wisconsin, and the USS Blue Jacket. Sloane achieved the rank of Captain and earned a Purple Heart, Bronze Star with V Device, Legion of Merit, Combat Action Award, and Navy E Ribbon. This oral history interview was conducted by Carli Van Zandt on March 5, 2014. Interview topics include Sloane's background, joining the Navy, the USS Rockbridge, Officer Candidate School (OCS), the Vietnam War, Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando, the Grinder, the USS Blue Jacket, airbases in Central Florida, the simulation industry, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:02:52 Background 0:01:58 Enlistment and USS Rockbridge 0:05:44 Officer Candidate School 0:08:20 Graduation 0:09:53 Repair Division Officer 0:11:22 Vietnam War 0:18:09 Other assignments 0:21:52 Wife and children 0:24:18 Naval Training Center Orlando 0:27:11 Daily life and training at NTC Orlando 0:32:31 Advanced training at NTC Orlando 0:33:51 Central Florida airbases 0:35:39 Simulation industry 0:37:01 Hardest aspect, proudest moment, and memories from NTC Orlando 0:42:51 Leaving the Navy and keeping in touch with friends 0:45:22 Lessons learned, the lasting legacy of NTC Orlando, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project Abstract Oral history interview of Richard Tobias Sloane. Interview conducted by Carli Van Zandt at the Education Building, Room 123, of the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on March 5, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 22-page digital transcript of original 50-minute and 17-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a>. Interviewed by Carli Van Zandt, March 5, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014912, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Queens, New York City, New York Officer Candidate School, Newport, Rhode Island Mekong Delta, Vietnam Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Creator Sloane, Richard Tobias Van Zandt, Carli Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-03-05 Date Issued 2014-09 Date Copyrighted 2014-03-05 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 432 MB 230 KB Medium 50-minute and 17-second DVD aduio/video recording 22-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Carli Van Zandt and Richard Tobias Sloane. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/289/rec/1" target="_blank">Sloane, Richard T.</a> Transcript Van Zandt Alright. Well, thank you for coming today. I’m so glad that you made it. Sloane My pleasure. Van Zandt Today is March 5th[, 2014] and I’m interviewing Mr. Richard Tobias Sloane, and he served in the United States Navy. Uh, we are doing this history project for the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]. My name is [Carolyn] Carli Van Zandt, uh, and my cameraperson is Fernando Maldonado. We are interviewing Mr. Sloane as part of, uh, the Community Veteran History Project and Loan Sailor Memorial Project. Uh, recording here today, in the Education Building, Room 123—the conference room—in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Sloane, will you please begin by telling us a little bit about, uh, what branch of service you were in and your rank, uh, which you retired at? Sloane I was in the United States Navy. I retired as a Captain in [20]06 in the United States Navy. Started my service in 1964 at the Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island. Van Zandt Okay. Thank you. Uh, I’m going to get a little background information here. Can you tell us when you were born? Where you was born? Sloane I was born on March the 4th, 1943. Yesterday was my birthday, so this is very appropriate. I was born in, uh, the Borough of Queens, New York City, in the State of New York. Van Zandt Alright. What did your parents do for a living? Sloane My father was a, uh—a wholesale merchant in dry goods in New York, on the lower eastside of Manhattan. My mother was a homemaker, and later in her life, she was in retail, uh, store sales in New York—in Long Island, actually. Van Zandt Um, do you have brothers, sisters? Sloane I have two older brothers. Uh, my oldest brother was retired Navy Captain also. He attended the United States Naval Academy—Class of 1957, and, uh, the middle brother, um, attended Harvard University, and Harvard, uh, Business School. Van Zandt Alright. Uh, would you tell me a little about how, uh, your family life may have impacted your decision to, uh, enter the Navy? Sloane Well, there was no doubt in my mind that my oldest brother, who’s about seven years, uh, my senior, if you will, uh, attended the Naval Academy when I was young, uh, junior high school, uh, person, and watching him go through that academy for four years and then his, uh—the beginning of his military service definitely had an impact my decision to join the Navy. When I completed my studies at Boston University—and in 1964, the—the draft was still in effect—and the choices were to continue my education, at the time, or to be drafted, or to sign up for the service, uh, of my choice, and at the time, I picked that choice to be in the United States Navy. I didn’t realize, at the time, it would be a career choice, uh, but I enjoyed my early years in the service, such that I decided to stick around. Van Zandt Okay. So tell me more about, um, what impacted your decision to stick around. Sloane Well, I had a great first assignment. I came out of college at about 22 years old, uh—maybe even younger, at the time, and, uh, I was assigned to a ship called the USS Rockbridge—hull number APA-228, and that was a, uh—an amphibious troupe transport from the World War II era. Uh, the mission of the ship was to embark Marines—about 800 Marines—and associated cargo, and land on the shore in amphibious landings, and, uh, the, uh, manning of that ship—the Ward Room—if you will, the “Officer Car”—was made up with a lot of, uh, old timers, uh—warrants, mustangs as department heads. People who had been former enlisted[?], came up in the ranks, and they were sort of like—I don’t want to classify them as grandfatherly types—but they were very, uh, mature in there service, and, uh, the Commanding Officers of the ship when I was there, under which I had three Commanding Officers, were also senior Navy Captains who were on their way to major command and, uh, come[sic] out of aviation, and were going to head to larger ships, if you will. So again, they were very self-confident individuals, very accomplished people, and the younger officers, like myself, were all fresh, wet-behind-the-ears college kids, and so it was a very, very, um, engaging environment, um, a very learning environment, while, obviously, there’s a lot of pressure you to anything you do in that Navy environment. It was such that you—you felt that you was learning, you felt like you were being mentored, uh, and I came away from that tour, uh, very, very, uh, personally fulfilled and—and feeling good about what I was doing. The sense of responsibility, that you got, which has always been, uh, something the Navy has played on for young beginners—that we’re going to give you, uh, tremendous responsibility that your peers, who were out working at Macy’s or selling insurance aren’t going to experience for a long, long time, and I found that to be true, because, uh, they give you things to do, and say, “Here’s a job. Go do it.” And they had enough faith in you to let you do it—to watch you close enough, so they wouldn’t let you mess up too bad. So it was a very, very good experience, as I look back on it over the years. I think that was principally what made me feel comfortable about staying in the Navy. Van Zandt You mentioned that you got this, uh, officer start before you did this first duty assignment through, um, Officer Candidate School, or OCS? Sloane Correct. Van Zandt Could you tell me a little bit about, um, what that experience is like? Sloane Well, talk about the shock of your life. You come out of a university, a—very, uh, loving home, uh, environment, as I grew up. Um, so you leave the university. Again, you’ve had a sense of what service life might be like, because of my brother’s experience, but obviously, you really don’t know exactly what you’re getting into, and I remember, at the time, there was only a ferry that crossed from the main land over to Newport, [inaudible] Island, unless you wanted to go all the way up and around, by Fall River[, Massachusetts] and Providence[, Rhode Island]. Today, they have a bridge, but I remember on that ferry, as I reported for duty to go to OCS, and looking out over the water and said, what have I done? [laughs]. That sort of thing, because I didn’t know what I was headed for, but it was also a very, uh, broadening and lightening experience, because most of my childhood and my college experience, for the most part, was very, um—I forget what the right word is—but very, uh contained. Uh, it wasn’t broadening. It was broadening educationally and, again, growing up in New York, you have a broadened sense of what life could be like, but I had never, uh, been in an environment with people from the South, people from the West, people from all sorts of cultures, uh—that sort of thing, and now you’re thrown into a barracks environment, uh, which is not quite the same as a college dormitory or fraternity house. Um, you’re—you’re being asked to do things in a very regimented way, uh, being held very, very responsible and accountable for the most minute, uh, daily life, uh, activities, and so while it wasn’t a shock, uh, it was certainly different. and it is a crash course, so your—things that, uh, people in NROTC [Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps] programs or Academy programs are getting years and years of time to, uh, uh acculture[sic] to and learn. You’re getting a crash course. It’s not that—it wasn’t that challenging or difficult, but you certainly had pay attention, and again, aside from the academics, the military side, um—it was just an enlightening experience. Mostly, in—in the exposure to people of different cultures, uh, uh, than ever before. Van Zandt Graduation day. Sloane Wow. You know, the funny thing was, uh, I can’t remember exactly—the whole program was about four months, and, uh, at about maybe three weeks before you graduate, uh, you get your orders, and the way you get your orders is, uh, you’re in a company of 30 men—maybe your class had a couple hundred in it, but, um—so you’re in a company of 30 men, and you get a—a message, if you will, to report to the barracks chief or the company chief at the company headquarters, and he’s going to tell you where you’re going, and I’ll never forget, he—he said—he said “Sloane, you’re going to the USS Rockbridge, APA228.” and I said, “Chief, what’s that?” [laughs]. I had no idea, because with all that indoctrination, I don’t think we ever got down into the grass as to ship types, you know? it was mostly here’s how you, uh, get from point A to point B, here’s how you do this, a lot of PT [physical training], uh, this, that, and the other thing, a lot of naval history. Uh, but I—I remember to this day, he told me where I was going, I had no idea what kind of ship it was or anything of that nature. So, uh, that was a little before graduation, but graduation day, you’re filled with pride, you have your ensign stripe[?], uh, and your off on a real, real adventure, you know? You’re glad to be leaving that environment, but you’re full of apprehension, because now, you’re going to be really entering the workforce, sort of to speak. Van Zandt ‘Kay. So you’re trained as a—a new ensign. What was your actual job as a new ensign? Sloane Well, my first job, again, was in the engineering department, and I was the [Repair] Division Officer for the repair division. The Division Officer—you’re in charge of a group of enlisted men and—with a specific function—and their job was metalsmith and woodworking, if you will, on this ship. So, um, they were doing all that type of work. It was a small group. Uh, I was sort of fortunate and respected, instead of being put immediately in charge of a large division, which might’ve been at least 30 men or 40 men. It was small, compact. Again, a lot of good leadership, you know? It’s always the Chief Petty Officer in the Navy who really knows what’s going on and runs the Navy. and especially when you’re brand new, I mean, you—even with what little book-learning you got, you have not a great idea on the technical aspects of what the people are doing, you’re worried about all the different aspects of being able to stand the watch, drive a ship, um, do your daily duties, oversee the people who are working for you—or working with you, uh,—that sort of thing, and again, it was a lot of—I don’t want to use the word “old timers”—but Senior Chief Petty Officers, uh, who had a lot of experience and confidence in their work, um, middle-grade Petty Officers. It was a good bunch. It was the right place for me to go for a start, because I had a lot of support from below. Van Zandt Okay. Um, your early assignments—it sounds like you had a lot of on-the-job training, do you think it is because it was the Vietnam [War] era? Sloane Well, uh, if you’re talking about the first ship, absolutely, you know? I mean, uh, at the time, a lot of people were going over to Vietnam. Uh, my second tour duty was in Vietnam, and by the time I have spent about two and a half years on that ship, I had, uh, changed jobs on the ship. I was, uh, made gunnery officer on that ship, which was—gave me an opportunity to learn another aspect of, uh, ship ward responsibility and duties, and so again, when I, uh, finished up that tour in about two in a half years, uh, I was very confident. I had, uh, been promoted one grade from ensign to Lieutenant Junior grade. Very proud, and, uh, left that ship with a great deal of confidence, I think. Van Zandt Great. Um, can you tell me a little about your Vietnam experience? Sloane I [laughs]… Van Zandt As much as you can. Sloane Well, uh, absolutely. Um, Funny thing is, um: I—I mentioned earlier that I worked with these great people, you know? Uh, uh, as many warrants and LDOs [limited duty officers] who had maturity, a lot of experience, um, and how I got to Vietnam, I always thought was an interesting story. The Navy Bureau of Naval Personnel put out a newsletter about every month that they—a hard copy paper newsletter, and they went to every ship, and it—it really talked about what assignments were available to different people and different grade, what was happening in the personnel management area, um, and they came out with an article that said they were looking for Lieutenants Junior grade to be the Commanding Officers of LSTs, uh— “Landing Ship Tanks” —uh, to serve as mother ships for river patrol boats in Vietnam. So these LSTS would be at the mouths of the river, they would be the mother ship for 10 or 20 small river patrol boats, and they wanted Lieutenant JGs [Junior Grade] to be, uh, XOs. They wanted them to be XOs—Executive Officers, and I read that article, and, uh, my boss, at the time, was a Lieutenant, uh—LDO—an “old salt,” who I greatly admired, and he read that article. They were looking for Lieutenants to be Commanding Officers—Lieutenant JGs was to XOs to these LSTs, and he reads this article, and he says—he says, “Boy, I want to be a CO of a, LST.” And he said, “Rich, come be my XO.” You know, “We’ll go together.” I’ll—he’ll be the CO and I’ll be the XO of this LST. Well, [clears throat] to go from being a Division Officer to an Executive Officer is highly unusual. Uh, but here is an opportunity, because it fit the mold, uh, of what they were looking for in Vietnam. I said, “Absolutely.” and I immediately wrote my detailer—the guy in Washington[, D.C.] who made these assignments—and—and, uh, I said, “I want to go be an XO on an LST, just like you wrote you needed, uh—uh, JGs to be XOs on LST. I want that job.” He wrote back—[clears throat] he said—corresponded back, “You know, you’re a little too junior,” because you’re in the JG billet for a number of years, uh—JG rank. Said, “You’re a little too junior, but we have lots of other jobs available for ya in Vietnam.” I said, “Okay.” I said, “But don’t give me a desk job. I want a job where the action is.” Next thing you know, I had a letters to a river patrol section that drove little plastic boats on the rivers of the Mekong Delta. So that’s how I got there. Van Zandt Wow. Sloane Yeah, I know, and then [laughs]—and then, my boss—I don’t think he ever got the job of CO. He did—he may have gotten an LST, but I don’t know that he had one off of Vietnam. Um, I spent a year. The tour that you got was a year. It was a small outfit—maybe a hundred people, if that. Uh, Most of them were assigned to run the boats, and the others were assigned as maintenance people. Uh, there was[sic], uh, two Lieutenants and three Lieutenants Junior grade, who made the officer structure. Then you had a number of Chief Petty Officers, and a host of, UH, other enlisted personnel, who manned the boats, and we spent a year patrolling the rivers of Vietnam. Van Zandt What impact do you think this experience had on you? Sloane Well, it had a tremendous impact. Um, you know, you sad[sic] in the sense that you were at war. You were certainly, uh, aware of that. Um, I think it was Winston [Leonard Spencer- ]Churchill who said something like, “There is nothing more exhilarating than being shot at and missed.”<a title="">[1]</a> Uh, and I had that experience. Um, uh, we’ve lost a number of people from our section to combat, while I was there, and I respect—I consider myself fortunate that I—that I, uh, um, didn’t have a harrowing[?] experience that—that cost me more than it did, so to speak. Um, uh, it was interesting to be in country, in—in that environment—to meet people of Vietnam, um, in many different, uh, ways, if you will. Um, and that’s about it. Van Zandt Do you think, um, your time through these, uh—the last two assignments that you just described help shape your leadership style? Sloane Uh, yeah, I think to some degree. That’s hard to say, um, how you developed, what—what it was that caused you to develop your leadership. I think more, uh—I don’t know. I only speak for myself, but I think more it was my upbringing than anything else. There’s all sorts of leaders—different people. Some lead in fear, some lead in—in different manners, and I just think it was the way that I was brought up that really, uh, set the foundation for my leadership style. I think a lot of your style is not so much developed in those early years, but further as you go along, you get more responsibility. Certainly there was a lot of responsibility from day one at different levels, and—and very significant responsibility, but my impression was: the further along you got, the more leadership experience you had. You had the opportunity to observe other leaders, you know? The—the common phrase, as well, eh, you know; “I’m not going to do it like he did it when I grow up.” That sort of thing. So, uh, how you developed it is—is a, in my opinion—for me, at least, is a combination of a lot of things: my personal upbringing, the experiences that I had as you climb that ladder can really shape. Van Zandt Thank you. What other, um, duty assignments did you take after your tour in Vietnam and prior to coming to NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando? Sloane Right. I came back from Vietnam and I was, uh, selected to go what then called the “Navy Destroyers School,”<a title="">[2]</a> which was really a course to prepare you to be a department head on a destroyer-type, um, ship. Um, that was a six-month course in Newport, Rhode Island. I met my wife there, during that time period. I courted her, eh, in—in those years—that time frame. Um, Went to USS Garcia DE-1040. Home-ported out of Newport, Rhode Island, as the Weapons [Systems] Officer. Um, from there, uh, I have to think back. I went to the USS—oh, excuse me. From there, I went to, uh, instructor duty at what was then the beginning of the Navy Surface Warfare Officers School and served as an instructor to ensigns, who were coming from their commissioning source before they were going to surface ships, and, uh, that was about three-year tour in Newport, and then I went to USS Milwaukee AOR-2—I think it was. Homeport in Norfolk, Virginia, a multiproduct ship, uh, stationed out of Norfolk, Virginia. Great tour of duty, great, uh, shipmates there. Again, uh, a tremendous learning experience as a department head for the deck department. Uh, A lot of responsibility, a lot of work there. From Milwaukee, we went to shore duty in Millington, Tennessee—a little bit north of Memphis, where the Navy had its, uh, training headquarters, and, uh, I served on, uh, the staff of, uh, Naval Education and Training [Command] —technical training—in Memphis—Millington. Uh, from there, after a short one year tour, um, I went to Hawaii, uh, to be, uh, Executive Officer on the USS Hassayampa, an oiler in, uh, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Another great tour. Uh, I think the, uh, thing that made my career so gratifying was the great shipmates and the leaders that I worked with over the years on these ships. From Hawaii, came back to Norfolk and served on the staff of, uh, Commander Carrier Group 8. Went to sea on aircraft carriers as a Surface Warfare Advisor, if you will—surface op[eration]s officer. Completed that tour, working for a couple of flag officers, and from there, let’s see. Where’d we go? [U.S.] Naval War College, I believe. Tour[?] in Newport, Rhode Island, at the Naval War College. A very int—interesting time, and then went to, um, command the USS Santa Barbara, uh, AE-28, out of Charleston, South Carolina. Was on board there for about two in half years, in command of the Santa Barbara. Went from there to, uh, the Executive Officer of Service Schools[sic] Command. [Naval Station] Great Lakes—very large training activity, uh, up in Great Lakes, Illinois, just north of Chicago[, Illinois], and from there, I came to Orlando, Florida, in command of the Service School Command Activity here at the Naval Training Center Orlando. So it was all in route, but we got there. Van Zandt That’s quite a list Sloane Yeah, I’ll say. Van Zandt Alright. This one’s about your wife. You ready for this one? Sloane I’m sorry? Sure. Van Zandt This one’s about your wife. They say in the military, you great two for one. How did you do with the family, the military, and the traveling? How did she deal[?] with that? Sloane Well, we were very fortunate. I’ve always felt that way. Um, my wife was ready, willing, and able for the adventure. She was a Navy nurse actually, when I met her when she was in college, and she was, uh, attending on a—a little bit of a scholarship at the end of her college tour, where, in exchange for tuition assistance, she went in the Navy as a Navy nurse, and in those days, if you became pregnant, they mustered you out, and so she was in for a little over a year in an half, until she became pregnant without first child, and had to muster out. So she had a little taste of the Navy, besides from the fact of growing up—not going up—but going to school in Newport, Rhode Island, as she did, which is where I met her, uh, she was exposed to all the Navy activity that went on in Newport, Rhode Island, at the time. Um, so we enjoyed the Navy. Nobody enjoys leaving your family for six months at a time and Nowadays, sailors are leaving there families for even longer, but, uh, typical six-month deployment then was not something you looked forward to from a family standpoint-of-view, but she—she understood that and, uh, was a great Navy wife. You know, they say, uh, a Navy wife’s the toughest job in the Navy, and I believe it 110 percent, and our children, uh, my wife, and I always—we moved around a lot, you know? And describing where I went, it was here, there. We came back a couple times, but it was never back to back tours in the same town, and unlike some, who said, “Oh, I don’t want to leave Norfolk,” or “I gotta stay in San Diego[, California].” We were always up for that adventure, and after a year or two went by, the kids were always saying, “Where are we going next?” That sort of thing. Got a little tougher when they got to the junior high/high school age, but up ‘til then, they were always ready, willing, and able to—“Let’s find a new place to go.” And, uh, that was pretty good. I’d always come home, after having spoken with the detailer, getting the word on where we were going. Uh, I’d call home and say, “Honey, Are you sitting down?” And she knew that was the signal [laughs] that we were going somewhere. Yep. Van Zandt Good. Um, well, what did you know about the region of Orlando and the military here? Sloane I’m sorry. Van Zandt What did you know about the region of Orlando? Sloane Well, I didn’t know anything about it expect that they had a mirror of activity of Great Lakes on a smaller scale. Uh, Navy training activity, smaller in numbers, but the mission was basically the same, and I lobbied to get that job of Commanding Officer. I say lobbied. You know, I—you talked to your detailer and say “Hey. I hear there’s a job opening in Orlando. Uh, it seems to fit. I’m training in education subspecialist. I’ve done the tour as Executive Officer here. Um, and I hear the Commanding Officer tour for the Service School Command is open there.” I was fortunate to get that assignment, and again, uh, the only, uh—the biggest impression was if the kids were a little, uh, anxious in moving in that point in time, because they were in junior high [school] and getting little more into socializing. Uh, When I told them that we’d probably have a pool at the house, that settled the deal [laughs]. “Let’s go.” They were ready to pack and move—move down here. So I didn’t know much about it. That was it. Um, that was it. Van Zandt How long were you here at NTC Orlando? Sloane Well, we got here in 1988, and I retired from that job in 1991. So… Van Zandt Okay. Sloane That was the tour. Van Zandt Um, what were your overall impressions of the recruits and their training, during that time down [inaudible] your time at the base? Sloane Oh, I thought it was terrific. You know, I was—really, there were three activities. You had the Recruit Training Center, You had the Nuclear Power School, and you had Service Schools Command. So, uh, while we did have some interaction in between all those activities, um, the sailors that—that I was seeing, uh, who were coming, from the most part, out of boot camp—uh, We did have some coming to advanced schools, uh, from the fleet, but the majority of them are coming right out of boot camp—uh, just top quality, you know? People have said that the quality of our servicemen and women today are—is better than ever, and they have said it for years and years, and I firmly believe it. A lot of people who say, “Ah, it’s not like the old Navy,” and they talk about things like uniforms and discipline, which is always important, but the, uh, quality, the intellect, uh, the upbringing—if you will—uh, of the people that[sic] are coming into the service, I thought was terrific, and I saw that throughout my career. You know, you’re in that moving stream, so you don’t always see the difference, but when you think about it, and you stop and you think, and you say, Look at the quality of the Electronic Technicians School, who are going through Torpedoman [Mate] School—some of these highly technical courses—You have to really, you know, learn some significant stuff or hone their skills. Um, we had top-quality people. Van Zandt Alright. Um, Daily life for your, uh, Navy recruits and your Navy sailors, that[sic] are there training for the schools—what was it like? Sloane Well, again, the people that[sic] were in my school, for the most part, were brand new, coming from out of 8-12 weeks of Recruit Training Center. So you still had to be aware of their conduct more off the base than on the base. Remember, these are young people who been cooped up at recruit training, where they didn’t get any liberty for months on end, if you will. Now, they’ve been cut loose, so to speak. Uh, yes[?], you go to class, but you had your weekends off, sort of thing. I think, on the whole, uh, and really across the board, we had very few discipline problems—things of that nature. Again, in a—in an organization that size, deal with that demographic, there will be individuals who really weren’t suited for the service, or who had a momentary lapse in judgment, shall we say, and so that’s typical in any large organization. I don’t think it—it’s not so visible in civilian—civilian life, you know? If some fella who’s working on the line in General Motors [Company] goes out and gets arrested for DUI [Driving Under the Influence], or something like that, General Motors doesn’t really hold him to task. Well, the military’s a little different on how it, uh, wants its people to represent the organization. Van Zandt Okay. Uh,couple of, uh, questions here, uh, for those who—who don’t know. Could you explain to us what the Grinder was? Sloane What the what? Van Zandt The Grinder was. Sloane Oh, the Grinder [laughs]. Well, I got very familiar with the Grinder at OCS, because the Grinder was where you—in OCS, you walked off punishment. I mean, it was the parade ground, and it was usually a paved a, uh—asphalt, uh, parade ground, uh, on which you’d have formal parades, but OCS—if you—if you didn’t make your bed right, or there was a dust bunny loose, or if your shoes weren’t shined, uh, when the other folks were going on liberty on Saturday, you were out there marching for two or three hours. Uh, And again, at—at boot camp, the Grinder was, again, the place where graduation was held, but again, uh, conduct infractions were marched off often times. Van Zandt Alright, and, um, the purpose of the USS Blue Jacket? Sloane Yeah, the Blue Jacket was, uh, a wooden replica, if you will, of a ship—a destroyer-type ship, and it had—internally, it had classrooms. Externally, it had fittings that you would find on, uh, a real ship. a life boat, or a whale boat, if you will, that could be lowered, raised, chalks, and bits, and lines, anchor chain, and halyards, and all the things that a sailor in—in the field of seamanship might encounter on a real ship, and so, uh, they can go on board that—that trainer, um, uh, and, uh, do the things that they would be asked to do out in the fleet, and they could also hold classes there. Uh, it was a—a fixture, if you will. A lot of people were sad to see it go. Van Zandt Okay. What kind of social life existed among the recruits on the base through the MWR—Morale, Welfare, and Recreation? Sloane Right. Uh, the interesting fact is: when I retired from the Navy in 1991, uh, the first position I took as a civilian was director of the USO [United Service Organization], here in Central Florida, Which, in a sense, was responsible a little bit for the MWR. I mean, the base had its own MWR organization, which was really the root of it. Uh, when I was on active duty, I personally took advantage of it. They had great gym, and weights, and facilities, and pool—all those sorts of things that you would want on the base. They had opportunities for sailors to buy tickets to local events and theme parks—uh, the typical Morale, Welfare and Rec, uh, support system. The USO was there also, primarily to support, uh, the families that came to see the recruits graduate every week at—at, uh, the Naval Training Center, but, uh, the MWR ran some great programs. They always were there. I remember the people who were—for the most part, many were retired military who were running the programs. They had a golf course, which was, uh, one of the premiere, I think, spots in town, to play golf for the retired Navy community and active duty when they were on liberty. There was also a smaller course down by, uh—by the [McCoy] Air Force Base, or was then a civilian airport. They had a small place down there. They had camping gear you could check out. Um, Just, really great support. I think that was an asset for this—this community—the Navy community. Van Zandt Okay. Um, did they have a local base newspaper? Sloane They did have a local base newspaper, and for the life of me, I’d have to think. I’d have to wake up at 3 in the morning to remember the name of it. I think it was The Navigator or something like that, and the fella named Jim Allen ran it, when I was there. He was sort of the—the editor. Uh, a great asset. I think it came out once a week, but Again, it covered the news, and all the good news, and, uh, that sort of thing. I—I got very familiar with the paper. I always wanted to make sure they—that if my activity had something to promote, it was in there, and it—they did a great job. It was a great asset. Van Zandt ‘Kay. After basic training, what other types of schools did you guys offer here at NTC? Sloane Right. Well, Service School Command had four, uh, ratings, if you will—trade—Trade skills that they trained to. Uh, one was electronics technician, one was torpedoman, uh, one was quartermaster, and the other was signalman. So again we did that, and Nuclear Power School—they had two different, uh, schools, if you will: Nuclear Power A School, and I can’t for the life of me recall what the other division was called, but it was sort of like a lower division and an upper division, and their training, um—it went up to a lot of the skills and requirements of operating nuclear power plants. Uh, they had a lot of senior officers, who would go into command of nuclear powered ships, who went through that program. Very, very, uh, effective training program. Van Zandt Alright, alright[?]. Um, did you have any shore maintenance that was done here? Did anything get sent back to have work done here locally for work done… Sloane You know… Van Zandt From the ships? Sloane I don’t believe that we did. I think, um, most of any maintenance that went on was supporting, uh, what was happening at the base, uh—that sort of thing, but it wasn’t like equipment was coming back from the fleet Van Zandt Yeah[?]. Sloane For maintenance. Van Zand Mmhmm. Sloane Because that was all done at the fleet site’s shore locations, if you will. Van Zandt What about airbases? Uh, ‘cause we have airbases here. Were we doing any work for the airbase maintenance? Sloane No, again, the Navy, um—a lot of that air training was done in Memphis, where a lot of the air raidings were done in Millington, if you will. Van Zandt Mmhmm. Sloane Again, um, if you’re talking about, like, [Naval Air Station] Jacksonville, which had a Naval Air Station up there and added their own—their facilities up there. So we really weren’t training aviation raidings. Van Zandt So our airbases here had been pretty much downgraded? Sloane Um… Van Zandt The old airbases? Sloane Well, Naval Air Station Sanford became the Orlando-Sanford… Van Zandt [inaudible]? Sloane Uh, International, uh, Airport. Um, uh, the Orlando International Airport was McCoy Air Force Base. Um, and, um, it’s always, uh, enjoyable when I drive down there and have a moment to scoot in by where the old [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress] is parked.<a title="">[3]</a> I think so many people in this community don’t know it’s there, haven’t had the opportunity to go down there where you can walk right up to it and kick the tires on this gigantic airplane. Up in, uh, Orlando-Sanford—which I’m sure the locals don’t know about—uh, there was a small civilian community, uh, that, uh decided to refurbish a [North American RA-5C] Vigilante, an A-5 aircraft, which is on display, uh, at the entrance to the airport up there. My wife and I had occasion to work with that committee and help, uh, put it in place, and, uh, that’s—that’s a sight, I’ll tell ya, and they’re working on refurbishing other aircraft for display up there. Van Zandt Great[?]. Sloane Yeah. Van Zandt Now, I know we had Tactical Air Command and Army Air Force[s] Training Command here, at one time. Did you have an occasion to work on any joint exercises with them? Sloane No, that was way before my time. Van Zandt Okay. Sloane That was when they wore the leather helmets. Van Zandt [laughs]. Sloane [laughs]. Van Zandt They have—the do still have the simulator training and stuff that goes on here with the [U.S.] Joint Forces [Command]? Did you… Sloane Well, the, uh… Van Zandt Participate in any of that? Sloane The Navy—the, um, Naval Air Warfare Training Center [Systems Division]…<a title="">[4]</a> Van Zandt Mmhmm. Sloane Here in Orlando, is part of the Research Park activity, the military’s presence, uh, joint services are there, mostly contracting for, uh, training and simulation work. That’s why all of these defense contractors have set up shop here in Orlando, so that they can have close act[sic]—access to those folks, but there’s a lot of activity taking on—taking in that area, right here in Orlando. Very important to the community. Van Zandt Right. I know the, uh, base has tied to developing technology and simulations. Were you involved in any of the future simulation exercises that were currently… Sloane No, really… Van Zandt Conducted by the military? Sloane That all used to be located at the Naval Training Center, and, of course, as it expanded, uh, I remember—I can’t tell you the exact year, but it was when I was in service here that they built the [Luis] De Florez Center, here in the Research Park, and moved that operation out there, and grew it, and had just a tremendous expansion of not only that joint service activity out there, but again , the growth in the Research Park of defense contractors who have come here to Orlando, but I did not work directly with the training and simulation activities here. Van Zandt Okay. Thank you. Um, what’s the hardest thing you remember doing while you were, um, a Commander at the NTC? Sloane Pushups. Van Zandt Pushups? [laughs]. Sloane [laughs] Yeah, well, you, um—I think “hardest” is a tough word. When you say “hardest,” uh, you know, I—I’ll change it over to what was the most, uh, difficult, uh, and that was the discipline. Um, Having to, uh, work with young people, who, again, had a lapse in—in judgment and came before you, because of some infraction—some minor, some not so minor, but it was always, I say, a little disappointment—maybe a little heartfelt, because it—in the back, you’ll say to yourself, uh, This youngster can do better. You’ve tried to provide them and your team to[?] guidance. Everybody makes a mistake, once in a while, and—and while there were those who, you know, were more than willing to atone for their sins, so to speak, and get back on track. Eh, there was the rare exception who was not the right person for the service and you had to ask them to leave, and, uh, I think—so when you say what was the “hardest,” it was that. You felt like to some degree, you failed. Now, some degree you—you can’t change some people—that sort of thing. So that was probably the most difficult, really. Van Zandt Alright. From the most difficult, when did you feel the most proud at NTC? Sloane Well, I think, um, every time you had a graduation, you know? Uh, every time you set sailor from your school out to the fleet, and you felt that they were—your team had prepared them, uh, very well to do the job, and that they would go out, and the people in fleet were going to look back and say, “Now, that sailor came from NTC Orlando. He or she was trained right.” Van Zandt Okay. Um, is there a particular story, um, from your time at the NTC that you’ll never forget? Sloane Oh, there’s a million of them. A million of them. We used to—we had a lot of fun. I mean, if you don’t have fun—that’s not to say that every day was a good day, uh, but if you don’t come away, uh, with a balance sheet that says you had more fun than not, you’re probably either not doing it right or don’t belong there and, uh,every year, uh, the, uh, Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society would hold a fund drive. Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society is just what it sounds. It’s a[sic] organization—civilian organization—that, uh, provides release services for men and women in the Navy and the Marines who have had hardship. Whether it’s a house fire, a death in the family, some serious illness, they—they’re there to support with finances and services, if[?] necessary. So every year they had a fund drive Throughout the Navy, and our little piece at the Navy Training Center broke down the individual commands, and what we did, for the time that I was there, we had a little carnival, or a cookout, or whatever every year in support of that, and my wife and I would put on a skit every year. So we did about three skits, during the time I was there, and [laughs]—and, uh, let’s see if I can remember them in the right order. One year, we did, uh a sk—it wasn’t a skit, but it was a song called “Lydia and the Tattooed Lady,” which [Julius] “Groucho” [Henry] Marx made famous, and I dressed up as Lydia the Tattooed Lady. My wife dressed up as Groucho Marx. The Navy band came and played the music. Van Zandt [laughs]. Sloane And out we went and did it for the crowd, and then one year, we did, uh, from, uh, South Pacific, uh—uh, the number “Honey Bun,” where—if you’re not familiar with it—this, um, senior sailor gets dressed up in a grass skirt and, um—and, um, uh, the Navy nurse dresses up as a sailor and sings about, uh, his girlfriend—his honey bun. So I dressed up in the grass skirt, and my wife dressed up in the sailor suit, and sang the song, and the Navy band played along, and then the last year we did, uh, “Get Me to the Church on Time” from My Fair Lady. So there I was in—in bridal regalia and she was, uh, dressed up as a, uh, groom going to the church, and we had great fun doing that. It made—let’s just say it made the base newspaper [laughs]. Van Zandt That sounds wonderful. Sloane Yeah. Van Zandt Um, were there any other areas of the base that were of particular importance to you or the sailors? Sloane Well, one of things, you—you know, everything was important, whether it was the commissary or what have you, but I remember Lake Baldwin, you know, which Baldwin Park is named after, if you will, and so many of the, uh, people who had the opportunity would go out there and fish on Lake Baldwin, or be at one of the clubs, whether it was the enlisted club or officer’s club, which looked out on Lake Baldwin. It was sort of, um, just the center of things, not necessarily geographically, but, uh, when you drove home, you went by it. That sort of thing. It was always there. The sort of Place a lot of people, uh, looked forward to seeing, or recreating on, what have you. The Maple Hospital overlooked Lake Baldwin. The golf course was off of Lake Baldwin. Uh, that sort of thing I remember very much. Van Zandt Um, I know what you did when you left the Navy. You went to work for the USO. Do you recall the day your service ended? Sloane The day my service ended? Yeah. Well, you know, like most senior people in the service, they have some sort of retirement ceremony for you. Change of command is what it really was, where, um, uh—a good friend of mine, uh, Captain Harry Smith—U.S. Navy retired, still here in Central Florida, uh,—relieved me of that job, and that was a very emotional day. It may not have be the—my last day—maybe it was the last day. Uh, it was just, uh, a very emotional time for me, um, in concluding that service, and reflecting back on all the years of service, all the assignments, the family, uh that sort of thing. So that’s my reflection on my last day, if you will Van Zandt Have you kept in touch with people from the Navy? Sloane Oh, absolutely. Um, [laughs] there’s one warrant officer, uh, who served with me in Vietnam. He was the maintenance officer for the river section, and he, uh, sort of, uh, made it his business to stay in touch with, uh, those of us who were still around, and so, um, an email contact with him. As I said, Captain Smith, who relieved me of the Naval Training Service School Command job, um, was a good personal friend here. Dave Arms, retired Navy Captain, who was Commanding Officer of the [U.S.] Naval Reserve Center here in Orlando for a while, uh—still here, and, uh, we stay in touch. Um, you hear from some people every once in a while. One of the most poignant things I recall, uh, is: many, many, years went by, uh, after I had left Vietnam, and as I said, we lost a couple of people in our section, and I, over the years, received just a handful of correspondence from, uh, relatives of the people we lost, um, asking about them, and I responded to those people, and that was, in a way, staying in touch. Van Zandt Was that hard? Sloane Oh, it—well, it was hard on—it wasn’t hard. Uh, I was glad to hear from them and to be able to tell them that, uh, their relative had served honorably. Van Zandt Um, what values or characteristics do you believe that the Navy made, um—that instilled in you a great impression for the rest of your life? Sloane Well, I think discipline, and I—I mean that in the finest sense of the word. Organization, uh, good order, wanting to see things in the right place, um, making decisions, you know—right or wrong. Somebody’s gotta make that decision. Uh, working with others towards a common goal—that sort of thing. Van Zandt Your lasting legacy with the, um, NTC in Orlando and the Navy’s legacy, um, in Central Florida—what do you think, um, is the lasting legacy in Orlando? Sloane Well, I think the lasting legacy [sniffs] is a couple of different things. One is: people, like myself, who are here and remain here, who chose to stay for many different reasons. Uh, but we have a tremendous veterans’ population here. People who served here and came back—I see a lot of that up in Sanford. You know, people—there’s a lot of, um, people who don’t, uh, know about the Naval Air Station Sanford, and, uh—and I had the opportunity to meet a lot of them during the restoration of the vigilante aircraft. Boy, they came out of the woodwork, um, for that, and so that’s one, uh—one thing. I think what we’re doing at—at, um, Baldwin Park, with the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project] is a great, great thing. Uh, that will stand forever and, uh, when generations go by, people will still know that there was a Naval Training Center activity here, hundreds and thousands of young men and women passed through here in service to their nation. Um, you can’t do more than that. Van Zandt How do you think that the former Navy personnel would like to see or reminded, um, at the memorial? Sloane Well, I think that the Lone Sailor Memorial is a very, very appropriate, uh, recognition of what took place here over the years. I think, uh, there’s so much pride in—in veterans. I don’t care whether they did 20 years or a four-year hitch in the Navy. I have rarely spoken to an individual who served, especially in the Navy, uh, who didn’t come away saying “It was a good experience for me.” That sort of thing. Van Zandt Okay. Um, when we’re looking at, uh, designing the [Blue Jacket] Park, what do you think they would like to see at the park? Sloane Oh, nautical—Things of the nautical nature. I remember, when I [laughs] was, uh—had command at the Naval Training Center, and one of things, I think—my recollection of up at the Great Lakes is the—by—by virtue of the fact that it was a very, uh—I don’t want to use “old” in the wrong word—but it had been there for… Van Zandt [laughs]. Sloane Since 1903,<a title="">[5]</a> I think. They had accumulated a lot of maybe history there. Whether it was an anchor, or a gun, or what have you, and so as you walked around that base, if you will, a [inaudible] you saw a lot of these things And You knew you were at a military facility or a naval facility, and when I came to Orlando, one of things I asked my, uh, team to do was to bring some of those Navy artifacts to—to our activity, and I’ll never forget, uh, we brought two big—what we call “24-inch searchlights”—no longer in use in the fleet, but these, uh—If you see the movies and you see the big arc lights things searching for planes in the sky, and I, uh—I charged one of our officers. Uh, I said, uh, you know, “Get in touch with the—the old shipyards, who[sic] have this stuff in excess, and let’s see if we can’t get one.” They did. They brought it and it was mounted in front of the school. they got a, uh, uh, four-barrel—I think it was a 4-barrell—a 40-millimeter gun mount brought it down and got it there, and that was—when the base was closed, I think they transferred it, to my recollection, to the, uh, Oviedo High School and JROTC [Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps] unit, and they may still be there. I haven’t been in the back lot for a while. So I think—and I remember that, uh, the torpedo—and it was a very strong World War II torpedo CO—submarine community here in Orlando, and I remember over at, eh, um—I don’t—it wasn’t near the USO, but it was somewhere over there in that vicinity, near the RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]. They had got these old World War II torpedoes and put them on display, and so I think, eh, you know, any of those type materials that can be brought, appropriately placed in and around Blue Jacket Park, uh, would really be a great reminder of, uh, the service that these people gave to their country. Van Zandt Thank you. Sloane Mmhmm. Van Zandt You’ve exhausted my list. Is there anything else you’d like to share with me? Sloane Have a great Navy Day. Van Zandt Aw. Sloane [laughs]. Van Zandt Thank you so much Sloane You’re welcome. Van Zandt I appreciate your time. Sloane My pleasure. Van Zandt I’m ready to stop recording. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Correction: “There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at with no result.” </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Correction: Naval Destroyers School. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> B-52 Memorial Park. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Correction: Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD). </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Correction: Naval Station Great Lakes was approved in 1904 and dedicated in 1911. </div> </div> A-5 advanced training aircraft airplanes airports auxiliary service B-52 B-52 Memorial Park Baldwin Park basic training Blue Jacket Park Boeing B-52 Stratofortress Bronze Star with V Device BUPERS Bureau of Naval Personnel captains Carli Van Zandt Carolyn Van Zandt Central Florida Research Park Combat Action Award Commander Carrier Group 8 Community Veterans History Project conscription CVHP Dave Arms deployments destroyers discipline drafts engineering engineers ensigns Fernando Maldonado Garcia Get Me to the Church on Time graduations Great Lakes, Illinois Grinder Groucho Marx gunnery officers Harry Smith historical preservation historical restoration Honey Bun Jim Allen Julius Henry Marx Lake Baldwin Legion of Merit Lieutenant Junior Lone Sailor Memorial Project LSMP LST LTJG Luis De Florez Luis De Florez Building Lydia and the Tattooed Lady McCoy AFB McCoy Air Force Base Mekong Delta memorials military spouses military training military wife military wives Milwaukee monuments Morale, Welfare, and Recreation MWR My Fair Lady NAS Sanford Naval Air Station Sanford Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Divisions Naval Destroyers School Naval Education and Training Command Naval Training Center Naval Training Center Great Lakes Naval Training Center Orlando Naval War College Navy E Ribbon Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society NAWCTSD NETC Newport, Rhode Island NMCRS North American A-5 Vigilante NTC Great Lakes NTC Orlando Nuclear Power School nurses OCS Officer Candidate School Officer Car orlando Orlando International Airport Orlando-Sanford International Airport parks planes preservation Purple Heart Queens, New York City, New York RA-5C RA-5C Vigilante recruit training Recruit Training Center Recruit Training Center Orlando recruits Repair Division Officer Research Park retirement Richard T. Sloane Richard Tobias Sloane river patrols River Section 35 Rockbridge RTC Orlando Sanford Santa Barbara selective service Service School Command Service Schools Command SERVSCOLSCOM simulations simulators South Pacific Surface Warfare Advisor Surface Warfare Officers School The Navigator training U.S. Naval War College U.S. Navy United Service Organization USO USS Blue Jacket USS Garcia USS Hassayampa USS Milwaukee USS Rockbridge USS Santa Barbara USS Wisconsin veterans Vietnam Vietnam War Vietnamese volunteers Ward Room wars Weapon Systems Officer Wisconsin https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c65c2937c8b431b9f072c42016c0f815.pdf e901832282467dfc3568e3bddb15ba8d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection Alternative Title Lone Sailor Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) United States. Navy Navy Sailors--United States Description Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando. Contributor <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Robert Matthews Alternative Title Oral History, Rob Matthews Subject Veterans--Florida Navy Orlando (Fla.) Description An oral history interview of Robert Matthews (b. 1957), who served in the U.S. Navy during the Cold War era. Matthews was born in Lake Wales, Florida, on May 23, 1957. He enlisted in the Navy in February of 1977 and was discharged in July of 1984. During his service, Matthews was stationed at Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando), Naval Air Station Memphis (NAS Memphis), and Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment (NAMTRADET) at Naval Air Station Jacksonville (NAS Jacksonville). He also served in Attack Squadron 174 (VA-174) and VA-87. Matthews was a Master Training Specialist and received an Expeditionary Medal. This interview was conducted by Mark Miller on March 28, 2014. Interview topics include Matthews' background, enlistment, training at RTC Orlando, the USS Blue Jacket, the Base Realignment and Closure Commission (BRAC), Matthews' naval career, NAWCTSD, and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:39 Enlistment 0:03:05 Attending boot camp at Recruit Training Center Orlando 0:05:53 First impressions of and days at Naval Training Center Orlando 0:08:13 Recruits, instructors, and military leave 0:14:37 Primary responsibilities at RTC Orlando 0:16:24 USS Blue Jacket 0:18:32 Memories and proudest moment 0:20:40 The Grinder, marching, and physical fitness 0:24:30 Selecting a boot camp 0:26:34 Military leave and the Orlando area 0:28:02 Base Realignment and Closure Commission 0:32:56 Career in the Navy and the Naval Reserves 0:37:01 Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division 0:43:55 Lone Sailor Memorial Project Abstract Oral history interview of Robert Matthews Interview conducted by Mark Miller at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division in Orlando, Florida, on March 28, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 21-page digital transcript of original 47-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a>. Interviewed by Mark Miller, March 28, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0014900, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Lake Wales, Florida Recruit Training Center, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Naval Air Station Memphis, Millington, Tennessee Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida Naval Air Station Cecil Field, Duvall County, Florida Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Jacksonville, Florida Creator Matthews, Robert Miller, Mark Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-03-28 Date Issued 2014-09 Date Copyrighted 2014-03-28 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 41.3 MB 215 KB Medium 47-minute and 23-second Hi8/MP4 audio/video recording 21-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Mark Miller and Robert Matthews. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/279/rec/1" target="_blank">Matthews, Robert</a> Transcript Miller Okay, okay. This is an oral history of Rob[ert] Matthews, an RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando] graduate and naval veteran. The interview is conducted by Mark Miller, graduate student from UCF [University of Central Florida], working in conjunction with the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial [Project] committee. Uh, it is March 28th, 2014, and we are in Mr. Matthew’s offices at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], um, in[sic] the [12201] Science Drive—Orlando. Okay. Um, some of our first questions are background questions. Um. So whe—when and where were you born? Matthews I was born in a little town not far from here—a little town called Lake Wales. I was born in[sic], uh, May 23rd, 1957. Miller Okay. What do[sic] your parents do for a living? Matthews Uh, my father was in construction, um, and my mother was in the medical field, working as an office manager. Miller Do you have any brothers or sisters? Matthews I have four sister—four sisters. They were, um, all born in Lake Wales, as well, and two of them still live in Florida, and two live elsewhere. Miller Um, growing up, where did you go to school? Matthews Um… Miller [clears throat]. Matthews The elementary school is there in Lake Wales. A little school called Spook Hill Elementary [School]. Uh, and junior high and high was Lake Wales Junior High [School] and Lake Wales High School. So it was a small town about 8,500 people. Miller Oh, so you were home-grown [laughs]. Matthews Homegrown. Miller Okay. Uh, what did you do before entering the Navy? Matthews Well, I went to college for a little bit. Um, worked locally in the town there, right at the high school, and, um, after about a year of that, I decided I wanted to go in the Navy. Miller Okay. So you joined a year after high school, and, uh, why did you join the Navy? Matthews Well, [clears throat] I guess I came from a Navy family. My, uh—in a sense—my father was a in the Navy during World War II for a short period of time. My uncle was—also served in World War II in the Navy. I had a cousin that went to the naval academy. I had an uncle that flew for the Navy, as well. Uh, and I had a brother-in-law that went to the Navy, prior to me going in the Navy. He actually went through RTC Orlando, as well. Miller Oh, wow. So one of our questions was why the Navy over other branches, and I think[?]… Matthews I think I explained that [laughs]. Miller [laughs] Yes, I think I can easily see that. Yes. Navy family. Alright. Um, so how did your family feel about you joining? Matthews Uh, mixed emotions, I guess. A little bit. Uh, I think they were glad to see me join such a great organization. Uh, I think, uh, my mother would have liked me to have waited and get a commission instead of being enlisted, but I was a little impatient, so I decided to go for it and do it anyway. Miller So where did you attend boot camp? Matthews RTC Orlando. Miller Okay, and what were you trained to do in your career in the Navy? Matthews Uh, I was a, uh—excuse me—an aviation Electronics Technician, uh, while I was in the Navy, which allowed me to work on the electronics on both the [Ling-Temco-Vought] A-7 [Corsair II] and [Lockheed] P-3 [Orion] aircraft. Miller So, uh, wha—what was your experience like at RTC? Matthews It was different. Um, probably the best council I got from, uh, my brother-in-law prior to going over there was: just remember to treat, uh—to treat it as somewhat of a game, and that, uh—don’t take the things that you’re being told too serious, um, and what he meant by that was—not that the training wasn’t important—it was critical for my own safety, as well as, uh, helping the country, but some of the things that you have to go through in boot camp—those stereotypical things that we have to do to make sure that we’re instilling discipline in our—in our young troops. He told me not to take that too serious, and that was probably the best council I got, uh, as I went through boot camp—was just remember that they’re sending me through certain experiences so I learn from it and that’s not really the way things are. Miller Well, what were some of those experiences? Matthews Well, um, back in those days, uh, it was important to, uh, get young people’s attention, and the way you did that was you physically exhaust them every opportunity you have, and you try to mentally change the way they see the world. So we would—we would do endless bouts of inspections, and calisthenics, and things of that nature, and it really was to try to, uh, instill discipline that maybe not all of us had when we went there. So we did some pretty silly things over—as I look back now, um, seemed awfully important to me at that point, but now, it’s— I’m not sure that having a spit shine on my shoes and my gig line lined up perfectly was, uh, the most necessary thing, but I understand the purpose of it. The purpose of it was: I learned to take, uh, great care and attention to detail, uh, to understand discipline and the meaning of it. So, uh, it seems silly, but I understand why they did it. Miller So what was your first impression of the base? Matthews Uh, it was a little confusing, uh, you know, I lived in Lake Wales, uh, which was—it’s only 60 miles from Orlando. So when I joined the Navy, uh, my first, uh, impression of being part of, uh, the Navy or [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense] or U.S. Government was to get from Lake Wales to Orlando, I needed to go via Coral Gables and Miami. So I left Lake Wales, instead of heading, uh, northeast to Orlando, I went west to Tampa to catch an airplane to fly south to Coral Gables, to being docked there, stuck on a bus, driven back north, and I think we got on base probably about 11-11:30 at night and it was dark. Um, probably a little bit frightened, um, because, just like you see in the movies, as soon as we got off the bus people were yelling at us [laughs]. So, uh, by the time I hit the base, I was pretty tired and I was pretty scared, so [laughs] it was a good experience to start with [laughs]. Miller [laughs]So what were your first days of service like? Matthews Well, it was, uh, a lot of confusion. A lot of being told exactly where to go, and the best thing to do was just listen. Uh, we were put in lines, um, wherever we went. We were—got our haircuts, our uniforms, a place to stay, were told what to do what not to do, when to do it. Uh, we were led around for the first few days. It was a good thing, because it was—it was a real culture shock for—for most of us. Um, but I—I would say that probably that—that, um—that rigor that they sent us through the first few days was probably the best way to get over that culture shock. So I didn’t have to do a lot of thinking at first. Just reacting to what they did to us, and they really did start forming us as a team. I was in a group of folks. There—there were 80 of us in our training unit, as we called them back then. Didn’t know, uh—79 brand new people I didn’t know before. Now I get to spend the next eight weeks with them and they became very close in many ways. Miller Mmhmm. Matthews [laughs]. Miller Now—yes. You’ve mentioned to us quite a few times—I was wondering what some of the fellow recruits were like? I mean, were they from all over and… Matthews They were. They were from all over the country. Um, and it—it was kind of interesting, ‘cause I was thinking about this: these were people that, um, like myself—that maybe grew up in a small town. Um, that came from a fairly stable, uh, family life, to, uh, folks that didn’t have that benefit. They may have come from middle of, uh, a city—broken family. Uh, and they brought the issues with that, um, and they tossed us all together, um, from all—from all over the country. People from Florida, Texas, New York. Uh, you could almost—although there probably wasn’t somebody from every single state in my group of 80—but a lot of the states were represented. Um, and, uh, I laughingly say there was[sic], you know, 80 people with probably 90 personalities in—in that group of folks. Um, [clears throat] some of the people handled it very well, and some of the people didn’t, and we started with 80. We didn’t end with 80. Although back in those days, Navy boot camp was not seen as one to the more rigorous—we certainly weren’t Marines. Uh, but There were people that just could not handle the, uh—the stress that we were put through, and you wouldn’t have guessed it, uh, from the first day. I think you’d have a very difficult time—maybe experienced person wouldn’t[?]—but you’d have a hard time looking around your group of folks that you’re—you first get your haircut with and first get your uniforms with, thinking, This person’s going to make it. That person’s not. Because we were consistently surprised by the people that did drop out. We thought they were the strong folks, but it turned out maybe they weren’t. So it was an interesting experiment to go through and kind of watch it. Once more, I’ll go back to what my brother-in–law said. I kept in my mind, when this guy’s yelling at me, it’s not because he doesn’t like me. It’s just part of what’s going on. So I never like[?] let that get to me. So I was able to observe other people a little bit better, because I wasn’t too worried about my own self, I guess. So it was—it was quite an experience. Miller Do you keep in touch with some of these people? Matthews No, no. Miller Oh. Matthews Um, I can remember—of those 80 people, I can remember one guy’s name. Um, and I saw him a couple times—two or three years after boot camp, and that’s it. I remember another gentleman’s first name and that’s it. Uh, and that’s all I can remember, but the one person I can remember very clearly was our Recruit Training Commander. Senior Chief Soaper, and that was in the days that the Navy allowed beards, and Senior Chief Soaper, um, was a tall thin man, dark hair, with a goatee and devil’s eyes [laughs]. Miller [laughs]. Matthews And I remember him clearly to this day. Miller Mmm. Matthews 30 or 40 years later, or so. Miller He’d probably be very proud that you said that about him. Matthews [laughs]. Miller [laughs]. Matthews He did a lot of good things for a lot of us. We didn’t think so at the time, but [laughs]… Miller Yeah, yeah. Um, you said that there were 80 people in—in your training group, but that was really quite a large facility. Uh, you were involved probably with other groups also, right? Matthews To—to some extent. Um, [clears throat] Being it was 80, it was well orchestrated, so that we saw a lot of the other units as were marching by each other. We see them in the chow hall, but you stay together as a unit. Um, when we went to the chow hall, we sat together, we ate together, and we left together. We didn’t mix, um, and not that we weren’t interested—because this was—this the first years of having, uh, females in the Navy, and—but at that time it was still segregated—that the boot camps did not mix these training units with male and female. so we were there and I—I—hopefully, someone knows the numbers of the—of training units and the training groups that they had—power cells—training units, at that time, but if I had to guess, there was 20 or 30 units going on at a time, easy, of which maybe two were female. So, um, [clears throat]—and even that was separated. So the chow hall had two sides, and I was in the side that was—it was all males. So we never even saw any females the whole time we were there, just about. Once in a while we’d pass them, but the groups didn’t mix at all so I—I couldn’t even—I probably wouldn’t even recognize one of those people that were in a different unit, because there so separated. You go to classes together, in your training unit, um, and occasionally there may be a training event where they’d mix two units, uh, but not very often. So you really didn’t—really didn’t mix too much at all. Miller Um, you must have done some mixing off-base though? Matthews [sniffs] There was no-off base. Um, when you start boot camp [clears throat], um, you start day one, you’re in boot camp ‘til you graduate, with two exceptions: the last week, they allowed us to—they’d load us up in buses and they took us to SeaWorld [Orlando] for the day. We’re there in our whites. Uh, we’ve been given the, uh, strong instructions of how we will operate while we’re at SeaWorld, because we represent the Navy for the first time in our uniform. So we, um—we—it was very stunted, if you will, what we could do at SeaWorld. So that was one day, and then the only other time that, uh, we had any outside access to the base was the day we graduated. We didn’t actually transfer ‘til the following day. That night we had a couple hours of military leave or liberty that we were allowed to go out of town[?], once we were in a very controlled environment. So other than that, no. when I transferred out of Orlando, I was gone. Uh, so my time at boot camp—the eight weeks I was there—one day in SeaWorld and one night on liberty, and I actually spent that with my family, because they came up, uh, and I spent a couple hours with them. So that was it. Miller [laughs]. Matthews You didn’t get off base. Miller Hm. So what were your primary responsibilities, uh, when you were RTC? Matthews Um, surviving was my primary, uh, responsibility. I— was not in a leadership position at, um—at boot camp at all. Um, [clears throat] what I was supposed to do was: I was supposed to learn how to become a sailor. Uh, I was a recruit up until they told me I was a sailor, which means I had to learn all the, um—I had to learn Navy history. I had to learn Navy protocol, uh, brinks, uh, customs, the culture, etc. I had to learn firefighting, how to fix a—I had to learn flooding. Any type of ship damage they try to expose us to. Uh, gas masks, you know—how to use a gas mask, what happens if your gas mask is not working. Uh, so they just try to give us the basics of, um, shipboard life, and especially, in case of emergency. So there was signaling, there was[sic] all the basics of becoming a sailor that they taught us, How to operate a weapon, if necessary. Uh, we did a little bit of shooting. So, uh—uh, how to wear a uniform, how to maintain a uniform, and the different uniforms that go with it, um, and they’ve got a lot of basic human, uh, nature things that you—that you think you—that most people would know, but recognize once more, these people are coming from all over the United States, from many different home lifes[sic], etc. so they’re teaching you hygiene—everything. So it’s—they take a raw person off the street and they turn him into a sailor that can function on his own as necessary when he leaves. Uh, and those—that’s what my primary responsibility was—to learn these things that they’re trying to teach us. Miller Um, obviously, we’re land-locked in Orlando and—and you’re in the Navy facility, how did you learn onboard training and things? Matthews Well, I learned them on the USS Blue Jacket. Miller What was that? Matthews That was the, uh—that was the—my first ship in the Navy, and it, uh—It was located right there, where Baldwin Park is now. Uh, it was a plywood mockup of a ship, um, and it had hatches and doorways and it looked like—it looked like a ship. You marched up to it. There wasn’t a pier associated with it. There was a little bit of a gangway. Went in there and we did watch standing. Um, it—it truly was the first time that I was on board, uh, or used a Navy simulator. It was called, um—it was the USS Blue Jacket. Blue Jacket was our training manual. All sailors—that’s the—their Bible, if you will. Um, [clears throat] and we spent, uh, many hours, uh, retrieving lines, casting lines, getting underway, uh, practicing damage control drills, things of that nature aboard the ship, and this was a culmination of many, many hours and days of classroom training, where they broke down the different aspects of the things we need to do aboard the ship into smaller chunks, if you will, so we could learn those objectives for that, and they sent us to firefighting trainers. Uh, they sent us to gas mask, uh—the gas mask room, where we went to a room with our gas masks on, and they let off the tear gas, and then they had us remove the mask, so we had some prospective of what that’s—what that’s like. Uh, did some flooding training—things of that nature—repairs. Just so that when we finally did leave boot camp, we went to further training and eventually did wind up on a ship, we would be an asset to the ship and not a—not a hindrance. By no means, a fully functioning trained sailor, but, uh, far, far, uh, greater value to the Navy after the eight weeks that we showed up and needed haircuts and uniforms. Miller So what was the hardest thing you remember doing at RTC? Matthews The hardest thing was, um, [clears throat]—well, physically, the hardest thing was: we’re in Florida. Um, and fortunately I started in February, so by the time I was done, we hadn’t got to the summer. So we had a couple hot days on the Grinder. Lots of marching, where we weren’t quite up to snuff, so we spent an awful lot of time learning how to march in the—on the asphalt in the sun. Um, and we spent quite a bit of time at either attention or parade riffs in the sun, trying not to pass out from your knees being locked. Um, that was—that was a hard part of it. Um, I think sometimes that, uh, even though, as I said earlier, I tried to keep in my mind, This is just a game, there was some lonely times, you know? Where you’re dead tired, and you see your chief and other folks have been yelling at you all day long, and you still got to shine your shoes one more time, and you’re just dead tired, and you’re thinking, Boy, is this really the—do I want to spend my life doing this? and I would—I would say, as hard as the physical part of it was, keeping that positive mental attitude that this too shall pass was kind of difficult sometimes at night. So it was probably that. Miller And on the flip side, at what moment did you feel most proud? Matthews That would be my graduation, when, um—when they played the—the patriotic music. We get to march, looking sharp as we do. Uh, we know our families’ in the stands, and we know that we’ve accomplished something. We’ve accomplished something that many people before us have accomplished and many people since, but internally, it’s—it’s something that we’ve been able to do, you know? We’ve been able to, as sailors, recognize that we do have the discipline to do the things that need to be done, and that was probably my proudest moment was—was the graduation, and seeing my folks in the stands [sniffs]. Miller So was[sic] there other purposes for the Grinder than graduation or marching? Matthews If there was, I never uncovered them [laughs]. Miller [laughs]. Matthews So[?] that—that’s where we did our, um—that’s where we did our marching, and, um, [clears throat], you know, [clears throat] sailors don’t march. That’s what the other services tell us, but we sure—we sure faked it a lot [phone rings] Matthews Um, we spent an awful lot of time trying to stay lined up with each other. Try to—uh, and really marching is just trying to operate as a team—trying to teach folks to operate as a team. You can take the attention to detail, and you can look as good as you are and you can be perfect, but if your teammate’s not, then you gotta start all over. So marching wasn’t to learn how to march. Um, I think after I left boot camp I marched, oh, for another six months when I went to school, because they’d march us back and forth to school, but once I left school, I never marched again. Um… Unidentified [inaudible] you want to take his[?] call? Matthews So, um, I—I, um, [clears throat]—the marching was, once more, one of the teaching points. Um, you have the discipline to do it. It seems silly, but it has a greater purpose. Do you have the attention to detail to do it correctly? Uh, and do you have the patience? That’s the key: do you have the patience to do this a long time? So I’m going to say that’s probably what I remember most about the—about the Grinder [laughs]. Miller Yeah, a lot of vet[eran]s mention the Grinder. That’s for sure. Along with the Blue Jacket also. Matthews We did a lot of running on the Grinder. We—they—we spent a lot of time on physical fitness, and—and part of that is, um—part of the physical fitness aspects are, um—we need to be in shape obviously, but the same time, when they teach us things, they have to be able to stress us, so that when we—in a real situation, and there’s stress involved, we make the right decision. Part of the physical fitness is wearing you down to a point where you are stressed. So they would—they would send us through running exercises and physical fitness, and then they’d get us into a classroom environment, and we’d have to start making decisions based on that, and—and that was critical to our training—to be able to say, you know what? I’m dog tired, like I said a few minutes ago, I’m tired, but I still got to shine my shoes. I still have to do this action, I still have to clean up my—my area. My rack still needs to be made perfectly, even though I’m tired and I don’t want to do it, and the only way you can get people to do that is to repeat it, repeat it, over and over again, the same thing over and over again, and even when they do it completely right, have them do it over. So it was part of, you know—all the services have a long, long history of boot camps and what they’re trying to teach, but if you don’t understand that concept going in—this is what they’re trying to do—it can be pretty hard. You can think, What difference does it really make that the corners on my rack are folded just perfectly? You know, Come on. You’re being silly, and the people that have the hardest time is [sic] the people that push back on that. Um, Like my brother–in-law—he made sure I knew before I went in. just do it, play the game, move on, and from that, even though I was [inaudible] playing the game, I learned the importance of that, and I learned the discipline that comes with it, which allowed me I think, later on in my short Navy career, to function at a higher level [laughs]. Miller Now, after graduation, did you immediately leave? Matthews No, I, um—I—I left Orlando, um, and then I—I went to [Naval Air Station] Memphis[, Millington, Tennessee] for about a year of school. Um, So I can’t remember if I took any leave between boot camp and Memphis, but if I did, I didn’t take very much, um, which is one of the reasons I was in Orlando, because, um, when I was joining the Navy—working with a recruiter—at that time, the Navy had three boot camps. They had Orlando, which 60 miles from my home, [Naval Training Center] San Diego, California, or [Naval Station] Great Lakes, uh, up in Illinois—Chicago, and I said, “Do I get a choice?” He goes, “You can always ask for—request a particular boot camp.” I said, “Great.” you know, “I want to go San Diego. I don’t want to go to Orlando. Great Lakes is to cold. Send me to San Diego.” and he said, “Alright. I can do that.” he said, “I’ll put that down. Probably a good chance of getting it.” and I’m thinking, Woohoo. I’m on my way to California for boot camp. He said, “What you need to understand is, after boot camp, you’ll get one to two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” he goes, “Before you go to your next station, you’ll get,” you know, “two weeks leave.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “And if you want to go home you, you can go home.” I said, “Great.” He goes, “but the Navy’s going pay you to go from San Diego to Memphis. If you want to go from San Diego to Lake Wales and back to Memphis, you’re going to pay the difference,” and, um, you know, I was—I was pulling down that huge E[nlisted Rank]-1 pay. That’s when I decided that, it was just boot camp. I’ll go to Orlando [laughs]. So long—long answer to your question is: yeah. I did take some leave. I took two weeks afterwards, went home, um, tried to forget everything I learned. It didn’t work, and then I reported to Memphis, um, in the summer of [19]77. Miller Did other recruits go to the NTC? Matthews I believe some did. Yes, I believe some stayed there. I—I can’t recall for sure, uh, but I believe some stayed there. Yes. Miller [inaudible]… Matthews Just the sheer numbers, there must have been some that did. Miller Well, when you were on leave, uh, did, uh, a lot of the sailors to hang out in the area or stay in Orlando for a while? We have stories of them hanging out at [Orlando] Fashion [Square] Mall and, you know… Matthews Um, well, my guess is—now, in my case, when—when I was released, I could, you know—my family was right outside the gate. I hopped in the car and drove back to Lake Wales. Other folks had transportation to wait for, um, so they may have spent time at the, you know—that weekend at the mall. They may have transferred. I—I do know that, you know—obviously we know that NTC was also a training command for other boot camp. So there was[sic] probably sailors hanging out there. and I’m supposing here, that the rules were the same as when I went—first went to Memphis, and that was: when you’re that young a sailor, if you’re going on liberty, you’re going in uniform, because we want to be able to identify you as such, because we don’t completely trust you yet. You’ve been locked up for eight weeks [laughs]. Um, there might be a tendency for you to get in trouble, so we want to be able to quickly identify you just in case, and we also want to remind you that you are part of the Navy now, and if you’re wearing a uniform, maybe that will be a subtle reminder that you need to represent the Navy proudly. Uh, didn’t always work that way, but, uh, it was a thought. Miller Well, we’re going to go a few years in the future and, um—and, uh—do you know anything about BRAC [Base Realignment and Closure Commission] and—and—in regards to, uh, the RTC? Matthews Yes. Miller Oh. Matthews Yes, I do know. Miller Um, can you share some of your experience? Matthews I’ll share what I know, because, um—what happened was: I, uh—I spent seven years in the Navy, and I, um [clears throat] —when I got out of the Navy, I went to work at the [John F. Kennedy] Space Center for about a year and a half. Then I was fortunate enough to get a job at this organization.<a title="">[1]</a> This organization was not here in this building<a title="">[2]</a> at that point. It was back on NTC Orlando. So after ‘bout eight years, I’m back on base again. Uh, I’m not on the recruit side. I’m on NTC side. and we’re in—we’re in a bunch of different buildings, um, spread around the base, and these are—some of these buildings are so old, they were built by World War II POWs [Prisoners of War] —German POWs. Um, I—I guess we captured some POWs in submarines off the coast of Florida when they were—Operation Drumbeat. I think it was that what was going on. Anyway, they captured these guys and these guys built these buildings. So here, I’m checking in 1985 and I’m going in a building that was built 40 years ago, and they’re spread all over the base, and, um, [clears throat] unbeknownst to me at that particular time, there’s a move afoot by UCF and, back at that time, Congressman [Clarence William “Bill”] Nelson [II] —now Senator Nelson—to—to emphasize modern simulation in this brand new [Central Florida] Research Park that were in now, and so—so he was able to get 40 acres donated to the Navy. Congressman Nelson—Senator Nelson now—was able to get the building, BUILDCON built, and we moved out here, um, in ‘88. Um, my command—the command I’m in now NAWCTSD. The rest of NTC/RTC Orlando stayed, uh, on base. Very fortunate move for us, because as, you know, history shows, in 1995, the 1995 BRAC decided that the Navy only needed one boot camp, uh, and they decided that boot camp was going be at the Great Lakes, Illinois. So San Diego boot camp was closed. The, uh, Orlando boot camp was closed, and the rest of the training command—because it wasn’t just boot camp. It was our Nuclear Power Schools, as well as some other schools—all on base—were all BRAC and were told to move elsewhere. Um, and so BRAC doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a series of years to get all the moves made [clears throat], and I often laugh, because when I—when I think about the buildings that I was in—as I said, built in World War II—we watched the BRAC process work on base, and we watched government contracting at its finest, and the NTC Orlando was a—was a very important base for the Navy. So important they invested a lot of money in infrastructure. So what they ended up having to do is they had to contractually finish these brand new buildings, so that they could then tear them down, because of the BRAC. So, um, for those who saw the—the BRAC process, they completely leveled the base. All the buildings that were there, with a couple exceptions like the VA [Veterans Affairs] hospital and one or two other buildings. Uh, and some of the buildings they leveled were brand new buildings. I mean, they had never been occupied, but they had to wait ‘til the contract was over and completed, and then they were torn down, and, uh, I don’t know if you were around there or not, but they literally created mountains of rubble in destroying this base. Um, [clears throat] was it a good move? I don’t know, you know? I don’t know the, uh—the financial aspects of it. I do know that, uh, boot camp at Great Lakes has turned into a wonderful facility. I was just there a few weeks ago. Um, and the way we’re tr—training our recruits now is so much better than when we were training, when I was a sailor. Um, so from that aspect of it, it has been very positive today for the Navy. Um, Could that same thing have happened to Orlando, San Diego, and Great Lakes? Possibly, but I do know the Navy has improved their recruit training dramatically, and it just happens to be located in Great Lakes, and, uh [clears throat]—so I watched the BRAC process, uh, go through. Uh, I know not—I know that the decisions made were not popular by many, but in the end, uh, I think it turned out okay. Miller Okay. Uh, so went to Memphis… Matthews Mmhmm. Miller For your training, and what—you trained for… Matthews Aviation Electronics Technician. Miller And then what happened? Matthews So after that, I was stationed at NAS [Naval Air Station] Cecil Field, which is near Jacksonville. Uh, and I was working on, um, A-7 aircraft. um, and I was there for three years, and I had a pretty good, uh—I was fairly fortunate that, in my three year tour in the A-7 outfit, I was able to work both organizational level maintenance and intermediately level maintenance, which means when I first got there, uh, [clears throat] I had some training, and then we deployed[?] aboard the ship, and I got to work on the flight deck, uh, and, I [clears throat] uh, really enjoyed it, uh—working the flight deck at night, uh, Because I was a 21 year old kid [laughs]. Uh, and I—you know, just the danger involved, the excitement involved, what you’re doing is just so, so wildly important that I just—it’s hardest—it’s the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life, But probably the most enjoyment I’ve ever had in my life—working on the flight deck for the first cruise. The second cruise I worked in mid-level[?], which gave me a different, you know—I was more of an Electronics Technician at that particular point, because now I’m working inside the electronic boxes—trouble-shooting, not working the flight deck anymore, but I was able to do that, um, for the second cruise. So I got kind of the best of both worlds when it comes to A-7’s, and after three years, uh—at that time, the rotation for the Navy was three years, uh, sea duty, three years shore duty. So I finished my sea duty, made two cruises, um, and then I went to shore duty over at NAS Jax.<a title="">[3]</a> Um, and that was working on P-3s, and I was an instructor for Maintenance Technician and I taught them how to work on the different systems of P, and that was pretty much the summary of my career, because after that second tour, I had been in the Navy for seven years, four months, and ten days. Not that I was counting. Um, I got out and, uh, I went to work at the Space Center, and then I ended up here eventually. So is that what you’re looking for? [laughs]. Miller Your career. Did you, um, eh—did—were you involved in operations? Or, I mean, um, did you see combat or… Matthews No. Miller Anything happen? Matthews No, and when—when we went aboard ship, uh, we made two cruises, and, um, it was during the period of time in our history where there wasn’t active combat going on. Um, this was—my cruises were from, uh, ’78 to ’81. Um, had a couple of incidences. The, um, Lebanon missile crisis that occurred when we were coming home one time. We had to take a detour and hang out in Libya for a while. Our pilots certainly flew in dangerous environments, especially over Libya, but I myself was never exposed, to my knowledge [laughs], to a combat situation. Miller Any other experiences that you have—your time in the Navy? Matthews I did go in the [Naval] Reserves for about four years. Uh, My P-3 background allowed me to, uh, join the Reserves. So I would go to Jacksonville once month, er—excuse me—one weekend a month, and then I would spend two weeks every year in Bermuda, which was pretty tough duty. So then, when they decided that the Navy looked at different things and decided that they were going to close their operations in NAS Bermuda, I figured it was probably a good time to get out of the Reserves. So, um, other than that, the rest of my time—other than a little bit of time working for the Space Center—has been working for the Navy here, um, at NAWCTSD. Miller So the Navy was your connection into, uh, NAWCTSD and everything of that sort? Matthews I think so. Yes. I shouldn’t say, “I think so,” because yes. It was. Because, um, although I was in the Navy for a short period of time, I got out for reasons. Um, I love the Navy, you know? I loved it then. I love it now. Um, when I went in the Reserves, I met someone that worked here, um, told him my background—the fact that I was an instructor for the Navy, had a degree in education, and all that stuff. He felt that there would be a good fit here at NAWCTSD. So he told me about this place and, up until then, I didn’t even know it existed. Um, so he was probably—well, not probably—it was because of my connection with him in the Reserves that I found out about this place, and he told me how to apply for a job, so that’s how I was able to get back here. I couldn’t have been happier. I don’t know that there’s a better place that I could have worked. This fits my personality, this fits my background, and—and it’s something that I really enjoy doing, so pretty fortunate that way, I guess. Miller Well, what are some of your responsibilities? Matthews Here? Um, well, um, my responsibilities now are, um, we have a command of about a thousand people—about 40 military, and this command is responsible for buying the training systems for the Navy. So, um, any sailor—whether that’s an enlisted sailor or officer sailor—that has to do something in the Navy [sniffs], is probably trained on a system that came out of here and the people that support it. So whether it’s a pilot, uh, flying aircraft, or it’s a Maintenance Technician that’s working on a training system—working on a trainer of their aircraft—doesn’t matter. They’ve gone through this. Even in boot camp, right now, when folks have to go to boot camp, they’re working—using training systems that came from this place. Um, my responsibility to that is: I’m responsible for all the program managers that—that manage the programs that deliver those training systems. I also have, uh, duties as the, uh, deputy to the senior civilians, so that anything to do with the command, if you will, involving the civilians, I have a, uh, leadership role in making sure that the environment the folks have here is the best, um, environment they can have to produce great results for our Navy. So it’s—it’s two hats: responsible for the program management and also responsible for the total work force, uh—one of the folks responsible here at the—at the center. Miller Uh, you said that the command has a thousand people. That’s pretty large. Um, what do you think the impact is to this area? Matthews Uh, lots of studies been done on that [laughs]. Uh, and I’ve been fortunate to watch that impact grow. Uh, I mentioned that I was on base and then we moved out here. When we moved out here, um, [clears throat] to the building, it was mostly trees, not buildings like we have here now. Our building’s here. There’s two other buildings. University Boulevard was a two-lane road. Uh, the only close restaurant to go to was the Olive Garden on—on [Florida State Road] 50—Colonial [Drive], um, and pretty much everything you see around here has come since then, and it’s because of, not just the Navy, but our partners the Army, and the Marine Corps—and the Air Force, to some extent—all have centered their training system acquisition here. Um, we’ve been able to do that, because of our good partners, UCF. and the industry, as well as the City of Orlando, the County of Orange county, and the State of Florida have all invested in this, because they’ve seen what an engine modeling simulation really is. So [clears throat] I would say 12-15 years ago, we were pretty busy, and we were doing—just the Navy—doing 2-3 hundred million dollars in business. Now we do about a billion every year. Uh, The Army does two to three times that every year, um, and that’s new acquisitions going out every year. Our total portfolio for the Navy is about four or 5 billion dollars’ worth of acquisitions we’re managing at one time. Because not only are we responsible for putting those training systems out there, the Navy has changed their business model in the last 20 years. In that these training systems that are out in the field for our sailors to train on, are maintained by civilians—by contractors. So were responsible for putting those contractors out there to maintain those—those, uh, devices that train. As I said—I love to say over and over again, every sailor that—in the Navy has touched one of our products. Has—has benefited from one of our products. So that’s something I’m very proud of—to be a small part of this big organization that provides that for the—for our Navy. Miller So the other Armed Forces are very involved? Matthews Yes, yes. Miller You don’t see that too often. Matthews Yeah, [clears throat] we like to brag. Ourselves and the, uh—the way this organization—this organization, NAWCTSD—whatever it was called back then—actually started in the World War II era in a little Chevrolet—use to be a Chevrolet dealership up in the [Washington,] D.C. area, [sniffs] um, [clears throat] then moved to New York, and when it moved to New York, the Army said, “Hey. We like what you guys are doing.” So in 1950, the Army and the Navy signed a memorandum of agreement that said were going work together on this modern simulation training stuff, and when we moved from New York, the Army moved with us down to Orlando, and that MOA [memorandum of agreement] that we signed in 1950 still stands unaltered, and we believe it’s the longest standing MOA between the Army and the Navy ever. So 65—almost 65 years, we’ve had an MOA that’s been unaltered, and if you’re familiar the way the Army and the Navy sometimes play together, that’s a pretty amazing fact. So we—we’re proud of that. So yes. We’re strong partners with both the Army and our Marine friends, and the Air Force as well. Miller And, um, just some closing questions about the [Lone Sailor] Memorial [Project] itself. Um, what—what do you think of the memorial and, you know, memorializing Baldwin Park and, you know, the Grinder? Matthews I think it’s a great idea. I—I—I think it’s a great idea, and I got to tell you Mike Philips s my hero, because, um, I can’t even remember how many—how many years ago it was. Oh, there. It’s up there. So 2005-2006 time frame, I was president of Central Florida Navy League here, and Mike Philips came to me and says, “Hey. I’ve got this idea. I want to put the Lone S—Sailor Memorial up in Baldwin Park, and I think it’s a great idea.” I said, “I think it’s a great idea too.” and then I—he said that it’s going to cost this amount of money, and I looked at Mike and I just—I almost laughed at him, because, like, “Mike, oh, my gosh. With[?] that kind of money, I just can’t ever see that happening. As—as great as the Navy was to this place, I just can’t ever see that happening,” and dag gummit, I’m so happy that I was wrong and Mike was right. So I’m really excited about—no—no bones about it. Mike Philips is the driving force behind this. A lot of folks have—have pitched in, and [inaudible], but Mike was the visionary that said, “This is what we need to do.” and his dream and our dream is coming true. It’s just the neatest thing that I could think of. Miller Have you talked to other graduates who—about this? Matthews I’ve talked to my brother-in-law. Miller Mmm. Matthews And he’s kind of excited about it. Um, both him and I want to do the, uh, paver bricks for, um, our— time there. Um, so—but that’s probably, you know, it—it’s—we work with a lot of people here in the building. Uh, and quite a few probably have gone through boot camp, but they’re in Orlando, but we don’t compare that much. I mean, you know, in the Navy, when you start telling sea stories, it’s about, “I was on this ship,” or “I was on this cruise,” or “Let me tell you about this liberty port.” no one ever really says, “And I went to boot camp at…” [laughs]. So that’s just not, you know, because quite—I shouldn’t say this, but quite frankly, when you show up for boot camp, the first day and you leave the last day, it didn’t really matter whether you were in Orlando, San Diego, or Great Lakes. It was all the same to you. It was marching behind the guy in front of you, classes, late nights, you know—so that stuff. So there’s probably that—that connection that sailors have with their first ship and maybe their first base, as there is with boot camp. doesn’t mean it’s not important, um, but that’s probably why folks don’t—I mean, I know there’s[sic] guys—I work with a lot of retired guys—ex-Navy guys. I couldn’t tell you how many of them went to Orlando, to be honest, you may want to cut this part out [laughs]. Miller [laughs] No, no. All the stories are valuable—but great. Thank you very much. Matthews Well, thank you. Miller [inaudible]. Matthews It was a pleasant being asked these questions again and give me a chance to travel down memory lane. Miller Okay. Matthews When we started, I told you I didn’t have much that I remembered, but you’re right once. You start, it just starts to flow. Miller Good memories. You have a nice smile too. Matthews Yes, thanks for the opportunity. Miller Well, thank you. Matthews Sure. Alright, and I need to sign some forms for ya? <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division [NAWCTSD]. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando, located at 12201 Science Drive. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Jacksonville. </div> </div> A-7 Attack Squadron 174 aviation electronics technicians Baldwin Park Base Realignment and Closure Commission basic training Bill Nelson boot camps BRAC BUILDCON Central Florida Navy League Central Florida Research Park Clarence William Nelson II co-educational cold war Community Veterans History Project CVHP demolitions E-1 education Enlisted Rank 1 enlistment Expeditionary Medal gender segregation graduations Grinder Jacksonville Lake Wales High School Lake Wales Junior High School Ling-Temco-Vought A-7 Corsair II Lockheed P-3 Orion Lone Sailor Memorial Project LSMP Maintenance Technician marching Mark Miller Master Training Specialist memorials Memphis, Tennessee Mike Philips military education military instructors military leave military training Millington, Tennessee NAMTRADET NAS Jacksonville NAS Memphis Naval Air Maintenance Training Detachment Naval Air Station Cecil Field Naval Air Station Jacksonville Naval Air Station Memphis Naval Air Systems Command, the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division Naval Reserve Navy League NAWCTSD orlando P-3 POW prisoner-of-war Recruit Training Center Orlando Research Park Rob Matthews Robert Matthews RTC Orlando sailors Science Drive segregation simulations simulators Soaper Spook Hill Elementary School training training systems U.S. Naval Reserves U.S. Representatives U.S. Senators University Boulevard USS Blue Jacket VA-174 VA-87 veterans World War II WWII Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Daytona State College Collection Alternative Title DSC Collection Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Daytona State College (Fla.) Contributor <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/75" target="_blank">Volusia County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/84" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach Collection</a>, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html" target="_blank">History of Daytona State College</a>." Daytona State College. http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html. Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198" target="_blank">History</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198. Cumiskey, Kate. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/491915106" target="_blank">Surfing in New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing, 2010. Coverage Daytona State College-New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater, New Smyrna Beach, Florida New Smyrna Beach, Florida Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records contributed by the New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater campus of Daytona State College. Items in the collection focus on the history of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. In 1758, the first European settlers arrived in present-day New Smyrna Beach and Dr. Andrew Turnbull established the colony of New Smyrna. Most of the colony's settlers were from Greece, Italy, and Minorca, Spain. Turnbull planned for the town to produce hemp, sugarcane, indigo, and rum, but the colony quickly collapsed due to insect-born diseases and raids by nearby Native American tribes. Most of the survivors resettled in St. Augustine. In 1887, New Smyrna was incorporated. In 1892, Henry Morrison Flagler expanded his Florida East Coast Railway to the area, sparking growth in the city. During the Prohibition of the 1920s, New Smyrna served as a site for moonshine stills and hideouts for rum-runners. In 1947, the city was renamed New Smyrna Beach when it annexed Coronado Beach. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Botta, Karen Jones, Ian Haley, Shannon McCormick, Zachary Broadway, Brenna Grooms, John Robert, Jr. Interviewee Mackay, Sally Location <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a>, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus in New Smyrna Beach, Florida Bit Rate/Frequency 136kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Sally Mackay Alternative Title Oral History, Mackay Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Mayors--United States Art--Florida Description An oral history with Sally Mackay, former mayor of New Smyrna Beach, Florida, and founder of the Hub on Canal, located at 132 Canal Street. Mackay migrated to Central Florida from Great Britain in 1973. In November of 2007, she was elected Mayor of New Smyrna Beach. She also served on the Volusia Council of Governments Executive Board, the Volusia League of Cities, and Florida League of Cities. Table Of Contents 00:00 Opening credits 00:15 Introduction 00:38 Memories of Central Florida 01:17 Migrating to the United States 03:44 Childhood household and expectations for success 05:38 Identity as a Brit and as an American 06:25 Ambitions as a youth 06:45 Anecdote about grandmother 08:20 Inspiration to join political life 09:25 Campaign for mayor 13:20 Founding The Hub on Central 17:00 Difficulties in being mayor and in opening an art studio 17:56 Feelings from opening her art studio 19:44 Experiences as mayor 20:47 Comparing immigration between now and then 21:42 Challenges of the immigration process 23:00 How life has changed 24:35 Mackay's personal message 25:17 Satisfaction with life and roles 27:45 Mackay's children 31:20 How society has changed during her lifetime 33:17 Conditions for the elderly 37:23 The Hub 38:06 How students can get involved with The Hub 42:52 Canal Street 43:06 General comments Abstract Oral history interview of Sally Mackay. Interview conducted by Karen Botta, Ian Jones, Shannon Haley, Zachary McCormick, Brenna Broadway, and John Robert Grooms, Jr. at Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Original 49-minute and 18-second oral history: Mackay, Sally. Interview by Karen Botta, Ian Jones, Shannon Haley, Zachary McCormick, Brenna Broadway, and John Robert Grooms, Jr. <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a>, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus. November 12, 2013. Audio/video record available. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/85" target="_blank">Daytona State College Collection</a>, New Smyrna Beach Collection, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Surrey, England Croydon High School, London, England, United Kingdom The Hub on Canal, New Smyrna Beach, Florida Creator Botta, Karen Jones, Ian Haley, Shannon McCormick, Zachary Broadway, Brenna Grooms, John Robert, Jr. Mackay, Sally Publisher <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College </a> Contributor Grigas, Carol S. Date Created 2013-11-12 Date Modified 2014-12-10 Format video/mp4 Extent 288 MB Medium 49-minute and 18-second audio/video recording Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created and published by the Daytona State College <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to the resource is held by <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="https://www.daytonastate.edu/maps/nsbmap.html" target="_blank">Daytona State College New Smyrna-Edgewater Campus</a> External Reference Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. "<a href="http://thehuboncanal.org/history/" target="_blank">About</a>." The Hub on Central. http://thehuboncanal.org/history/. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/407" target="_blank">Mayor Sally Mackay</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach. http://www.cityofnsb.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/407. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/c7Y1WHJjaCY" target="_blank">Oral History of Sally Mackay</a> ACA Affordable Care Act art studios Bath, England Bones Mackay Brenna Broadway British Parliament Buckingham Palace Carol S. Grigas Central Florida classical guitars Croydon High School Daytona State College Democrats Doug Peterson DSC educators elderly Eli Young Band Exeter College Flagler County Florida Georgia Line Florida League of Cities healthcare History Skill Building Project Ian Jones immigrants immigration Jim Mackay John Hopkins University John Robert Grooms, Jr. Karen Botta Lesley Mackay Lesley Mackay Heiser Los Angeles, California Magnolia Street Margaret Hilda Roberts Margaret Hilda Thatcher Margaret Thatcher Mayor of New Smyrna Beach mayors McCormick, Zachary Mickelson, Phil New Smyrna Beach Ormond Beach Phoenix, Arizona planning boards politicians Portland, Maine Richard Spangler Roger Levinson Sally Mackay Sally Mackay Spangler Sally Spangler School of Behavioral and Social Sciences SCORE senior citizens Shannon Haley Surrey, England teachers The Hub on Canal The Hunger Games The Voice Thomas Mackay ukuleles VGMC Volusia Council of Governments Executive Board Volusia County Volusia County Growth Management Commission Volusia League of Cities Zachary McCormick https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/7694b2ecfe6598860bf2dd056777e299.pdf cbe81dcd3160bddd959946761a697d04 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Moving Image A series of visual representations that, when shown in succession, impart an impression of motion. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Scott Peterson Alternative Title Oral History, Scott Peterson Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Mass shootings Memorials--Florida Gay culture--United States Description An oral history interview of Scott Peterson, a member of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview was conducted by Sarah Schneider at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida, on October 23rd, 2016. Some of the topics covered include an introduction, joining the Orlando Gay Chorus, his favorite productions, the mass shooting at Pulse nightclub and its aftermath, the Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to the Pulse tragedy, the community response to the tragedy, the significance of Pulse before and after the mass shooting, the role of social media in the aftermath of the tragedy, the long-term consequences of the tragedy, and the significance of the Orlando Gay Chorus. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:17 Joining the Orlando Gay Chorus and favorite productions 0:08:14 Mass shooting at Pulse nightclub and its aftermath 0:10:01 Orlando Gay Chorus’s response to Pulse tragedy 0:21:34 Community response to Pulse tragedy 0:25:21 Significance of Pulse before and after tragedy 0:28:44 Role of social media in aftermath of tragedy 0:30:29 Long-term consequences of Pulse tragedy 0:34:32 Significance of Orlando Gay Chorus Abstract Oral history interview of Scott Peterson. Interview conducted by Sarah Schneider in Orlando, Florida, on October 23, 2016. Type Moving Image Source Peterson, Scott. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider, October 23, 2016. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, LGBTQ+ Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 37-minute, and 49-second oral history: Peterson, Scott. Interviewed by Sarah Schneider. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Des Moines, Iowa Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts, Orlando, Florida GALA Choruses Festival, Denver, Colorado Joy Metropolitan Community Church, Orlando, Florida Orlando, Florida Pulse nightclub, Orlando, Florida Creator Peterson, Scott Schneider, Sarah Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2016-10-23 Date Copyrighted 2016-10-23 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 113 MB Medium 37-minute, and 49-second audio recording 18-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Scott Peterson and Sarah Schneider and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Ogles, Jacob. "<a href="http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning" target="_blank">Pride in Orlando Will Take on New Meaning</a>." The Advocate, October 6, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/10/06/pride-orlando-will-take-new-meaning. Hyman, Jamie. "<a href="http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/" target="_blank">Community rises up after mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub kills 49</a>." Watermark, June 16, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2016. http://www.watermarkonline.com/2016/06/16/community-rises-mass-shooting-orlando-gay-nightclub-kills-49/. Transcript Schneider Stop. Take a break. Let us know. That’s fine. Um, do you have any questions or anything before we start? Peterson Not off hand. Schneider Okay. Peterson Yeah. Schneider Yeah. Uh, so I’ll sort of introduce it and then—and then I’ll start asking you questions. Oh. And also I won’t be responding. So my job is just to listen, hear your experience and I’ll just… Peterson And listen to me… Schneider …ask questions. Peterson …yammer on. Schneider But I won’t be saying, “Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.” ‘Cause that can get a [laughs]—get annoying when you’re listening to the interview later. So… Peterson Okay. Schneider I’m really interested but I just won’t respond. So yeah. Peterson Sounds fair. Schneider Yeah. All set? Peterson Yeah. We’re good. Schneider Okay. Peterson Alright. Schneider Today is Sunday, October 23rd, 2016. My name is Sarah Schneider and I am conducting an oral history interview with Scott Peterson of the Orlando Gay Chorus. The interview is being conducted at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida. Thank you for being here. Peterson It’s my pleasure. Schneider And can you start off by stating your name for us? Peterson Scott Peterson. Schneider Thank you. Peterson That’s right. Schneider And, um—so could you tell me where you were born and how long you’ve been in Orlando? Peterson I was born in Des Moines, Iowa. And finished all my schooling in Iowa. Graduated college from the University of Northern Iowa and then immediately moved to Orlando because my sister was living here. And I didn’t have any other plans [laughs]. So… Schneider Um, and, um, how long have you been part of the Orlando Gay Chorus? Peterson Uh. Well, let’s see. Oh, and then I—I moved here in ’85 to Orlando. And I joined the chorus in Christmas of ‘99—was the first performance that I sang with. Schneider Um, and what brought you to the chorus? Peterson I had had my first relationship and it had ended a couple years prior to that. And, uh, was finally starting to want to be more social again. And—and I knew somebody who sang in the chorus. And I’d been to a couple of performances, but not really very many over the years. I hadn’t really been aware of it. I knew that it existed, but that’s it. So I went ahead and joined with my friend. And then just completely was taken in by the whole community and the sense of being able to sing, which I’ve always enjoyed since I was a kid. Although I don’t have any formal training in singing. Um, I did take one course one summer during college. But, um—so, uh, I don’t know. It was fun. And there were people that were fun and welcoming. And people to socialize with. So kind of initially, and probably my first motivation, was just to be social. And to be around a lot of other folks that were gay, which was kind of a treat at that point. Rather than just going to the gay bars. So, uh, it was beautiful. And it was a good cause. And it was all about music, which as I said, I’ve always enjoyed that. Then, thankfully, they were pretty welcoming. I don’t know how—I cannot officially read music but can follow very well. And you can kind of intuitively build, you know, a sense of following the notes and such. So I’m blessed enough to have some natural ability to do that. And to memorize music and—and it started there. So… Schneider Mmhmm. And what have been some of your favorite productions or events you’ve done over the years with them? Peterson [sighs] Oh. Favorite things. Well, the GALA<a title="" href="#_ftn1">[1]</a> Festivals that they go to every four years are very memorable. Um, I didn’t go to one that happened the very first—or that following year after I joined. I was just a little green and not prepared to—to take a week off and invest the money that it takes to go on a trip to wherever the festivals are. Um, but, uh, been to four of them now. The first one I went to was in Montreal[, Québec, Canada], which was fun ‘cause that was the first time I’d actually been out of the country. So it was just overwhelming and very empowering to be at a place where there are all these people that are committed to making music and to the whole putting ourselves out there to—to kind of help bring about change ultimately. Very intrica—very slowly sometimes. But ultimately, if you just keep at it things do change. So that’s what I felt. So to be surrounded in that festival with all these people singing for each other—[inaudible]. I mean there’s a little bit of competition in a way just because people are naturally that way. But it’s not a completion. It’s just a festival of celebration. And celebrate all the choruses and all their efforts no matter how big they are or small. So, uh, it was very emotional. And it was very empowering. And kind to—all those experiences, and being with the chorus—I was thinking about that before I came today. It’s like, What has it done for me s—on a personal level? Uh, and I was reflecting on that is to—growing up when I grew up, ‘cause I’m 57. 57 now. I was born in ’59. So my high school years were the ‘70s. I graduated high school in ’77. And at that point in time, being gay and in the Midwest, it was, you know. Des Moines’s a pretty good city. Pretty multicultural in some respects. But still it was pretty conservative. And it was in the ‘70s. And I didn’t know any other gay people. And, uh, you feel pretty isolated. And at first you don’t even know how to i—how to identify yourself that way. ‘Cause that was kind of—you didn’t have anything—there was nothing on television really to help you compare or contrast or to identify with. It was just knowing that you had a little different sense of people. And what you were attracted to as far as people. And not knowing what to do with that. And, of course, all the natural guilt that we’re always subjected to with society. And so that would have colored[?] my whole experience about myself and who I was. And about my sexuality. And then college kind of helped me explore a little bit to at least realize what I was about that way. And then, uh, you know, you muddle through. You get through college. And you find employment. And start your career. And then—but joining the chorus was the first time that I routinely was exposed to a large number of gay people, where you start to have some senses like, Well, this is—it’s just—it’s—there’s diversity like crazy. Just as there is in the—in the straight population or the population of what you don’t even know what people are. And then to be in a gay population on a routine basis like that kind of helped me increasingly feel okay I guess about my sexuality. Even though I felt pretty blessed. My parents weren’t really—they weren’t shocked. Um, they were pretty—my parents had actually had parties and in—invited, uh, at least a couple of gay couples to ‘em over the years. But that was it. That was my only exposure. At least I had that much, thankfully. I was actually pretty grateful to—to them that they were open-minded enough to at least have that come into my awareness as a kid so I had some idea of where I might possibly go with my relationships. But—but the chorus has been, as I said, s—it’s such a[sic] empowering experience. Growthful[sic]. Yeah. You know? Schneider Mm. And so you mentioned that you went to the GALA Chorus [Festival] in Montreal and … Peterson Montreal… Schneider …um, [inaudible]… Peterson …and then we had one in Miami[, Florida] four years later. And then now we’ve had two in Denver[, Colorado], which was really fun. I think the next one—next one is in Minneapolis[, Minnesota] in another four years. So, uh, they’re all very different. And—and to be immersed not only in your local community, but then to see such a massive community when you go to a GALA Festival. It’s like the hotels are full and the people out and about. And everybody’s being very prideful. And sh—displaying whatever. Whatever their lives are about with some sense of freedom to just express yourself and whatever it is. It’s—it’s a very beautiful thing. So… Schneider Mm. And so, um, how did you hear about the Pulse shooting when you were… Peterson I, uh… Schneider …in Orlando? Peterson …well—well, it was Sunday. I don’t remember what I was doing anymore. I picked it up on the radio I guess. I listen to a lot of public radio. It’s kind of my go-to. And then the information started coming in. And it was, um—it’s one of those things you just, um—I guess it’s what you routinely hear with people who go through some kind of horrific event. You don’t really realize what’s going on right away. Or how it’s impacting you right away. A certain amount of you just kind of goes into shock. And then there were also—first thing is you’re, you know, so concerned about, Was there anybody that I was close to that could have been there? It’s not a club that I frequented. I’d been a couple of times years ago. But, uh, I know a diverse group of people. And some are younger. Would tend to possibly have been there. And—and, uh—and you go through those—that time of trying to identify. And Facebook had this, uh, check-in feature that they put out, which was really nice. ‘Cause you could immediately go and find the people with that. But there was one particular person that I had in mind that it was like really concerned. I mean he wasn’t checking in. And it’s like—and so I had some of that sense of not knowing for a while. But that all worked out okay. But, certainly, I have friends of friends who either were pa—died or dramatically injured. So a lot of people were affected. Um, and then it was interesting how the chorus was in that position. We were asked to come help right away as far as memorials or—there was one—I don’t know if it was that—it was Monday night I think. At Joy MCC<a title="" href="#_ftn2">[2]</a>. I don’t—I can’t remember the timing anymore. But one, very quickly, the—the—the MCC Church had a big memorial. Gathering people. And they asked the chorus to come and we were there. And then they just started coming more and more frequently. You know? A couple two or three times a week. Sometimes it became—suddenly these outreach experiences—what we called them is outreaches. When we perform outside of our regular big events—were happening routinely. And it was, um, kind of a journey. Kind of cathartic in a way ‘cause it was forcing us to re-experience our emotional reaction to what was happening. Kind of over and over again. So it probably helped speed up the process of recovering. Maybe. I don’t know. [inaudible]. It was pretty overwhelming, those first few days. I had kind of in a way—thankfully was, uh, due to leave town for a week to go spend time with my family. So went to a few outreaches and then I was pulled away to do that. And I kind of was glad because I felt like I needed a—it was so intense, the experience here, that it felt good to be pulled away and to go and kind of recover privately for a while. And then to—came back and—and involved in a lot of the outreaches as much as I can. Again since then. So… Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson …uh, Pulse kind of changed the whole trajectory of the chorus’s activity level. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson Yeah. Schneider And so can you say more about what—what the experience was like at the visual—at the vigils, um… Peterson Uh, the vigils… Schneider …what was that like? Peterson Uh, just very sorrowful. Um, especially the first time. There’s just a lot of tears. And realizing how you’re impacted and not even understanding when I haven’t personally lost someone that was integral to my life, and yet as a community, it felt so close to home. It felt very personal emotionally. Um, so I—that was—I kind of lost track of my—what was your question again? Schneider Um, what was—what was it like being at the vigil? What was the atmosphere like? Um… Peterson Oh. So that—yeah. So to—again, that cathartic [inaudible]—to even realize that you’re that hurt. You’re going through these expressions of caring and recognizing what’s happened to people. And what’s happened to our community. And—and the lives of those people who were impacted very, uh, personally. Um, being put into your awareness over and over again. With the ringing of the bells for instance. The most—other than that first night when we sang at Joy MCC Church, which was poignant. And the place was just full of people. It was very intense. And there were many pastors of many different faiths who were up at the front. And everybody trying to find their way to identify what’s happened. And—and to comfort. And to—to recognize the people that have lost their lives initially. It just—that emotional experience kept ebbing and flowing as far as how intense it would feel. But, uh, the most memorable thing was the, um—the sea of people that showed up for the—the memorial vigil that was, um, at the Dr. Phillips Center [for the Performing Arts] in that large yard out in front that backs up to the City Hall. And we showed up kind of early like we always do to try and get organized. And we’re usually preoccupied with where we—where are we gonna be? How many of us are gonna be here? What music are we gonna sing? Who’s gonna direct? It’s just logistics issues. And then we’re doing a lot of waiting. And then, finally, we go up onstage. And we’ve got everything prepared. We know what we’re gonna do. And you look out and the sun is starting to go down. And so the—the atmosphere ultimately became candles. And just a sea of people. And—and, uh, the ringing of the bells at the church next door. It, um—uh, very memorable. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson Never ever in—in life I can’t imagine things much more poignant. Schneider Mm. Peterson Um, that was—yeah. Well, that’s what I remember. Schneider Mmhmm. Um, and you said that the vigils continued over time. Peterson Lots of small… Schneider [inaudible]. Peterson …events. Um—uh, there have been—first responders had a breakfast. I know that some of us went and sang—I think they sang a song and—off—or national anthem maybe to start their event. So a lot of different groups that would never have thought to reach out to the chorus for—to help make their event. To help add to the ceremony. We’ve been doing that routinely now. So, uh, first responders. Um, the different pride events around Central Florida. We just did Volusia [County] this weekend. And we did, uh, one over in Melbourne[, Florida], uh, perhaps three—I think three weeks ago. Um, we have others that are coming up that had just—like two or three a week. It’s slowed down a little but now, but there still are—we’re frequently thought of and asked if we can come and support and sing a couple songs or, uh—Volusia we just did a 30, 40-minute set for them to help celebrate pride. Um, so that’s been frequent. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson We used to do—I would say the chorus would do probably 10 or a dozen outreaches maybe over a span of a year before that. Normally we have two major performances. Um, one for the holiday and one in the spring. Um, which are full-on, you know, performances at the, uh, Plaza Theater<a title="" href="#_ftn3">[3]</a>. And then we also offer three, uh—what do they call them? Cabarets. Through the year. Um, one was[sic] just happened this Friday. Thursday? Thursday. Friday? Well, anyway, it just happened. And it was Friday. And Uncut’s a little racy. So that happens at the Parliament House, which is an appropriate setting to have racy kind of [laughs]—a racy show. And then the other one—one is called Love Is, which is sweet and comes[?] around Valentine’s Day, which is the anniversary of the chorus. Valentine’s Day. And then the other one I’m trying to [inaudible] continue off the top of my head right at the moment with the other ensemble or the outreach [inaudible]. Um, whatever it is that they’re called. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson But we’ve been doing that for a long time. So have five performances that are kind of built into our schedule here. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson Aside from that. Schneider And what were some of the songs and their content of the—of what you sang? Um, and was that typical or different for… Peterson For the vigils? Schneider …the vigils? Yeah. Peterson Uh, thankfully we had just finished a—a performance that—this spring that had a few songs that kind of lent to the subject matter of what would feel appropriate to sing. Uh, “True Colors” is one that kind of became a signature so to speak to the event. Uh, we sang that at the—the [Joy] MCC Church that first night. And they’ve done it many, many times since then. Um, it just works. There were quite a few songs. Uh, I’m not really the best to tell you as far as pulling times off the top of my head. But, um, “You’ll Never Walk Alone” has been used a lot. “True Colors”. Um, I don’t know. I can almost see the titles. But—and, uh, we had—we were preparing to go to Denver for the latest GALA Festival [door closes] right at the same time that Pulse happened. We’d already put together a different song format when we’re preparing to learn songs to go to GALA this last, um, June. June or July. And then—July. And then changed and actually used music that had been from our just previous concert that we already pretty much knew. And pretty much sculpted the theme of the musical we presented to be appropriate to the tragedy at Pulse when we went to GALA. So that was a very interesting experience. Going to GALA right after that. Being with the larger gay community from across the country, uh, was extremely moving. Uh, the other choruses were very, uh, acknowledging of what our chorus had done. And how we were—had responded to the community’s need. And also, what had probably—I assume they were sensing would have affected us personally, being so close to the tragedy. Um, it was a very, uh—when you’re kind of hurt and you want to be with family. Or, you know, when you kind of want to retreat. It felt something like that on a—but on this global scale with so many people. It was so, uh, uplifting and heartwarming to realize that you could kind of let yourself down and—and repeatedly break into tears occasionally. Just because you’re remembering or you’re realizing how much you’ve been holding attention from what had happened. And trying to be there and be strong for the community. And yet, you have your own needs. Your own personal adjustment that you’re still going through. So they were—they were beautiful. All the choruses. And—and especially during our performance when we were sculpting it to recognize what had happened at Pulse. And we had some visuals that went with the music. And it became a whole—that whole theater was just full of people emotionally responding and singing with us at one particular song. Um, I wish I could tell you which it was off the top of my head. But the whole place is trying to sing. And—and crying through it at the same time, which the chorus was even suffering a little bit on trying to keep ourselves together. It was such a memorable—everyone holding hands through this massive—it’s a big, huge theater that—where we were. It’s just really emotional. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson And helpful. Beautiful at the same time. It was hard. So… Schneider Mm. Peterson Yeah. But that’s been life. Schneider Mmhmm. Yeah. I was wondering what your thoughts have been about the reaction either of the other gay choruses or of the local communities or… Peterson Local community? Schneider …everything. I’m curious what—yeah. Peterson Um, I’m really surprised… Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson …honestly. And proud of Orlando. And how it’s—it seemed to step up to and recognize and embrace. I mean at—this tragedy certainly affected everybody in the local vicinity more personally because it was so close to home. But to have the sense that they were embracing the gay community and the Latin gay community. And just trying to comfort is how it felt. It felt like they were really ready to step up and—and try and protect and comfort. Schneider Mm. Peterson Especially those subsects of our—subsets of our community that may have felt it more personally. Um, and I still see some of that. And it’s still—it’s changed my concept of Orlando. As far as the culture, I always felt that it was a—it’s a nice place. I’ve enjoyed living here. But it always seems for newcomers—I always hear that it’s kind of hard to make friends. It’s hard to meet people. It’s hard to find a community to connect with. Um, and that seems much in contrast with what I saw happen after Pulse. And how the whole city seemed to react and want to—to mourn together and to recognize together. And to—and to support the people that were hurt personally as much as possible, too. It’s been very beautiful. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson I really am proud and surprised at how—to the degree which this—that everybody stepped up [sighs]. Schneider Yeah. Did you, um, experience feedback as part of the gay chorus from [inaudible]—um, did you hear from people outside the local community? Um, I know you mentioned being at GALA. But was there anything else that you heard from other communities after Pulse happened? Peterson Well, of course, my family. My family’s across the coun—my sister’s in Asheville[, North Carolina]. And, um, my parents live with my brother and his family—step-sister are all back in the Des Moines area still. Um, so you know that sense, it’s kind of like when a hurricane happens or some other horrific thing, it’s like family calls to check in. Friends from far away will call to check in to make sure you’re alright. And there was some of that, too. You could tell that the whole country on different—to whatever degree that they would recognize what was happening here. It was very personal crisis for the people that are nearby. Anyway, I—I saw them and quite a bit. And the news. I tend to listen to public radio, as I said. So public radio tends to be a little bit more socially maybe sensitive. Maybe minded. And so I did hear stories about things around the country. And people having vigils around the country. And it was nice to—to… Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson …feel supported that way. Schneider Um, what are your thoughts about—do you have—you mentioned you’d been to Pulse, but it maybe wasn’t a central place for you. But what sort of—what did you think of it then? And what, if anything, does it mean to you or represent to you now? Peterson That’s a—well, initially it became one of those places where you have to make a choice. Are you prepared to drive by, of course, for the first couple of months. They were—I think it was a couple of months before I decided to travel down Orange Avenue. Um, and I was kind of glad it wasn’t as—I was glad I finally did it. It wasn’t as awful as I thought. And then, uh, I don’t know. I just—it wasn’t a real personal club for me. Like I said, I was thought it was more for a younger [inaudible]—uh, age group generally. It’s a generalization. But, um, the memorial of—that’s been built there with people responding—I’ve seen many people like taking vigils to go and experience some sense of being closer to the people that were hurt and were killed. Uh, they’re still real present. I mean just the other night we went to the vigil that, um—it was a[sic] art experience. They were trying to do healing with art. And created this big banner. And, uh, put it up on the side of the wall. And this was the first time apparently that they’ve allowed public inside the fencing that was put up as a perimeter to protect the—the building and—and the investigation that was going on initially. So it—it was interesting. It kind of felt like an opportunity for—or a time for the community to start taking back a little bit. It’s like to—a place that nobody seemed welcome inside of anymore. It was like a forbidden kind of sense about it. And now it feels like that’s starting to be chipped away at. And that I guess I can—apparently, I understand that they may reestablish a cl—the club there. Or… Schneider Mm. Peterson …I think that that’s the plan. I don’t really pay attention to this ultimately. But—or that there may be a memorial. Or I don’t know what they’re going to do. But, um—but I think that was like—it was an experience, again, where eventually it will be taken back. And every bill—everybody will have access to that. What was apparently a really central place for a community to meet. For all the folks that were frequent—frequently went there. But, um, it was kind of nice. I’m glad that they had that event. That started making [inaudible]. But hard to imagine actually walking in there. But everything will change. And everything does eventually heal. No matter what the trauma you experience in your life. Every—time always makes things okay again. All the time—or at least livable. So I can see them having a club again. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson [inaudible]. Schneider Mmhmm. Um, and did—did social media play any role in your experience of the aftermath of the shooting? I mean you mentioned the checking in. Peterson The checking in. Schneider [inaudible]. Peterson And then really moving was seeing the mosaics. People were creating mosaics of the people whose lives were lost immediately. Um, which was beautiful in a way because it made it more personal. You can see someone’s face. And you can—it helps—it helps me sense that I had an emotional connection to the people that died. And I actually—although I’ll never have known them, but it just—something about seeing human faces, and it—it helped. It helped make it more real and made the emotions seem to make sense. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson So that was really dramatic. Facebook really made that possible. Um, a much quicker way. You know, all the expressions of love. And all the outreaches that the chorus would do. There’s always pictures taken. And posting so you can identify that you were there. And kind of helps create a, um—a—a record. Like a personal record, too. Just, you know—you can save posts. And now I have something that can ultimately go back and when I want to remember what that journey was like and what it felt like at different points of time after that happened. Um, it’s a very beautiful thing that we have that. To—to personally archive events that happened to us to easy[sic]. Schneider Mm. Um, so what do you hope that the long-term consequences of the Pulse shooting will be for the Orlando gay community, um, and for the larger city as a whole? Peterson Or even the country I… Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson …hope. I—I thought of this fairly early on, too. It’s like it seems so almost—I don’t know. I almost feel a little bit of, um—a little bit of guilt on some level of wanting to see a silver lining when people’s lives were taken. Where people’s lives were so dramatically altered and hurt. Um, but I kind of felt that or sensed it that that potential existed kind of early on. It’s like such an awful thing to see the way the country was reacting, and in particular the way Orlando was reacting, was very heartwarming. Very encouraging. Um, to further what has been such a long struggle as people have put themselves out there. And many people have died over time as a result of a focused assault on gay people. But, uh, I’ve seen a lot change in my lifetime in that respect. Even to the point of gay marriage now being legal, which when I was a kid—when I was a teenager, never would have dreamt of such a thing ever. Not in my—from that vantage point, seeing what it was like to be gay. And that it was such a closeted thing. And—and, uh—and that people could get hurt. That—to think it could come to the point where finally the majority of people recognize and stand up and were willing to protect rights of gay people, too. Um, so it kind of seems like we’ve come through so much already. And then to have such an awful event. And then to witness, because so much has already been done socially, where people are getting to the point where they seem to understand a little bit, that just like anybody else—that gay people have—need to be protected and cared for just like any other subsects in our country. Um, it kind of—it seems like there’s some beautiful, divine plan. That ultimately, society is growing. Society is getting better towards—towards everybody’s benefit. That I think the more inclusive we are, the more able to empathize with and care for people that are—have different experiences than what we have. That ultimately, we’re all better off. That that’s a much stronger place to be. Which is kind of somewhat helpful because the other influences across the world don’t seem like we’re going that way. There’s so much hate. And the terrorism. And all the misunderstanding. People don’t understand each other. And people get all confused about what other people’s motivations are. So much destruction happens, but this is kind of a case of—we’re seeing something getting better. That maybe for the human race in general that there’s some—that there’s better hope that we can continue to be better at taking care of each other. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson So just a nice piece of evidence that there is hope. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson Yeah. Schneider Um, do you have any other reflections about the Pulse shooting or being a member of the gay chorus? Or anything else that—that you’d like to talk about? Peterson Um, the Pulse shooting? No. The gay chorus is, uh—it’s kind of interesting ‘cause I’m becoming one of the older members in the chorus now [laughs]. Um, ‘cause when I joined, let’s see—’99 I would have been—I was 41? Yeah. 40. I was 40 when I joined the chorus, which is—well, it’s still relatively—and I’m still relatively young. But—but a lot of time has gone on. And we have younger people now that are part of the chorus. We’ve always been really good at having a pretty diverse, uh, age group. Like we have some folks that have been in their eighties. I think we had a member that was 80 plus. And we’ve had some that were actually minors still. And, um, a parent would join the chorus as a support person. And then the minor child was singing with the chorus. We’ve had that happen more than once. So, uh, it’s interesting to see the young people and—that get to experience—especially young gay people because of that community we have. And to see how their lives are so much different than what my life was like going through those times of [inaudible]. Um, it’s nice. It’s a—it’s something that’s alive. It’s a community that continues to grow. It has generations. It’s, um—it’s—it’s very much like a big family in a way. It’s still—and some of the relationships are actually in some ways more important that some folks develop than maybe the relationships that they currently have with their family members. ‘Cause there are still people that suffer from not having support. Or—or have relationships that are severely damaged with their biological family. Hopefully a lot less than it used to be. But that does certainly still happen. Even with the young folks. So in that respect, also, the chorus becomes more than just s—it becomes friendships. And it becomes people you rely on. And people that will be there when crises happen. And we kind of take care of each other. And respect[?] us[?]. So it’s interesting how the chorus is more than just a singing group. And more than just a, uh, social advancement movement. That it’s also a huge community of people. And it’s kind of nice. That’s how I feel about the chorus. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson [laughs]. Schneider Is there anything else you wanted to share or talk about? Peterson [sighs] No. Not off the top of my head [laughs]. Schneider Mmhmm. Peterson Yeah. Schneider Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate that you were willing to do an interview. Peterson Thanks for all of the effort to—this is a beautiful thing… Schneider Yeah. Peterson … that you’re doing. How many interviews do you think you’re having? Schneider Um [sighs]. Maybe about 30. I’m—I’m not positive. Peterson Oh. It’s… Schneider But I know a good number… Peterson …yeah. Schneider …at least. Yeah. Yeah. Peterson Hm.That’s a good third, approximately… Schneider Yeah. Peterson …of the chorus. That’s great. Schneider Yeah. Thank you so much. Peterson Thank you. <div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref1">[1]</a> Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref2">[2]</a> Joy Metropolitan Community Church </div> <div> <a title="" href="#_ftnref3">[3]</a> The Plaza Live </div> </div> 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting Asheville chorus Denver Des Moines Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts Facebook first responders first responders breakfast fundraisers GALA Choruses Festival Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses gay marriage Geoffrey Cravero GLBT GLBTQ+ gun violence hate crimes homophobia homosexuality JMCC Joy MCC Joy Metropolitan Community Church LGBT LGBTIQ LGBTQ Love Is mass shootings Melbourne Miami Minneapolis Montreal orlando Orlando Gay Chorus outreach events Parliament House Plaza Theater Pulse massacre Pulse nightclub Pulse nightclub shooting Pulse tributes Sarah Schneider Scott Peterson social media terrorist attacks The Plaza Live True Colors Uncut University of Northern Iowa vigils You’ll Never Walk Alone https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c62bcd04e26ae9d751548bdafe27b133.pdf 8f30ddfb5649a986242427f6e728aa76 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection Alternative Title Lone Sailor Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) United States. Navy Navy Sailors--United States Description Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando. Contributor <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Barnes, Mark Interviewee Kidd, Scott T. Location <a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>, Orlando Florida Duration 47 minutes and 10 seconds Original Format 1 Hi-8 audio/video recording Bit Rate/Frequency 2418kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Scott T. Kidd Alternative Title Oral History, Kidd Subject Orlando (Fla.) Navy Veterans--Florida Description An oral history of former recruit training Commander Scott T. Kidd. This interview was conducted by Mark Barnes at the University of Central Florida's Colbourn Hall in Orlando, Florida. This oral history was produced as part of the Community Veterans History Project (CVHP) and the Lone Sailor Memorial Committee for the purpose conducting background research for a memorial honoring the former Orlando Naval Training Center (NTC Orlando). Kidd was a former recruit commander at Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) from 1989 to 1993. He also served in the U.S. Navy from 1983 to 1994. Kidd was the first recruit commander at the base to lead a fully integrated company of male and female recruits. He also served on the USS Ponce LPD-15, the USS Niagara Falls AFS-3, and the USS Iowa. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:41 Biographical information 0:03:03 Assignments 0:06:24 Transfer to NTC Orlando 0:10:08 Responsibilities as a recruit training commander 0:12:32 Experience of the recruits 0:20:05 The training of male and female recruits 0:26:26 USS Blue Jacket and the Grinder 0:32:50 Additional training 0:36:30 Development of simulation training 0:38:48 Assignments following time at NTC Orlando 0:40:43 Legacy of NTC Orlando 0:44:17 Lone Sailor Memorial Abstract Oral history interview of Scott T. Kidd. Interview conducted by Mark Barnes at <a href="http://www.ucf.edu" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a>, in Orlando Florida. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Kidd, Scott T.</a> Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. February 2, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Community Veterans History Project (CVHP)</a>, Library of Congress, http://www.loc.gov/vets/. Coverage Richland, Washington Naval Station Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Illinois Norfolk, Virginia Mediterranean Sea Naval Training Center Orlando, Orlando, Florida Creator Barnes, Mark Kidd, Scott T. Publisher <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries Contributor Maldonado, Fernando <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-02-12 Date Copyrighted 2014-02-12 Format video/mov application/pdf Extent 872 MB 163 KB Medium 47-minute and 10-second Hi-8 audio/video recording 18-page typed transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Mark Barnes and Scott T. Kidd, and published by the University of Central Florida Libraries <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>. Rights Holder All rights are held by the respective holding institution. This material is posted publicly for non-profit educational uses, excluding printed publication. For permission to reproduce and/or for copyright information contact <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/UniversityArchives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, (407) 823-2576. http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/. Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Barnes, Mark Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/Systems/DigitalCollections/" target="_blank">UCF Digital Collections</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Navy Memorial of Central Florida. http://www.lonesailorfl.com/. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Oral History of Scott T. Kidd</a> Has Format Digital transcript of orginal 47-minute and 10-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/276/rec/1" target="_blank">Kidd, Scott T.</a> Interviewed by Mark Barnes. UCF Community Veterans History Project. February 2, 2014. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Transcript Barnes Today is February 12th, 2014. I am interviewing Scott [T.] Kidd, who served in the United States Navy. My name is Mark Barnes, and with me is Fernando Maldonado, who is working the camera. We are interviewing Mr. Kidd as part of the UCF Community Veterans History Project, and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at UCF [University of Central Florida], in the city of Orlando, Florida. Mr. Kidd, or Scott, however you would like to be directed. Kidd Scott is fine. Barnes Scott. So, if you could just give us some of your early biography. Where were you born? Your brothers or sisters, mother, father? Kidd Sure. I was born in Richland, Washington. I have six brothers and sisters. Single-parent family. Raised there in the [19]60s. Left home when I was 15, as part of the late 60s-early 70s liberal generation movement. Early—bounced around the California-Las Vegas area. Got married. Decided I would join the military and clean my act up, at a certain point in life. And then spent 12 years in the service. After multiple experiences there, I received a medical retirement, due to some contamination from a command I was with. And moved on into real life. I opened a couple of businesses. got into broadcasting. And now, I run a company that is involved in putting science and technology companies together with young students in order to do career guidance. Barnes Good. And what year did you join the Navy? And what were your reasons for choosing the Navy over other services branches? Kidd I joined the Navy in actually February of—yeah—February of 1983. And, at that time, we were busy—the United States, in particular, was busy—enjoying a massive recession. Huge unemployment. Eighteen percent—18 to 20 percent interest rates on home loans. There was a lot of convulsions there, and I had a young family that I needed to be able to take care of. So, like many people, I joined for the job. I selected the military, because—quite frankly, I selected the Navy, because they gave me a bonus, which came in quite handy at the time. So like many people in the military who joined, it was for the money—for the job. Barnes And what were some of your first experiences coming out of boot camp—some of your first assignments? Kidd Okay. here’s a little entertainment. First place, I was—even though I was born in Washington, I sort of made my way to warmer clim[ate]s, like the L.A. [Los Angeles] and Las Vegas areas. When I joined the service, in February of 1983, the Navy and its infinite wisdom sent me to Great Lakes, Illinois, which is the north end of Chicago. Directly on the lake. Now for those of you unaware of it, it’s frickin’ cold up there [laughs]. So when you have a chill factor of minus 35 [degrees], it, ah, persuades you that—it gives you second thoughts about your [laughs] —your move to join the military. But any rate, I completed boot camp there, and my initial training—I was actually there for a best part of the year. And my first duty assignment was in Norfolk, Virginia, with a ship called the USS Shenandoah—I forgot to mention it down there—brand new ship that had just been commissioned. I was what was known as a “boiler technician.” I was persuaded to become a boiler technician, because the recruiter I spoke to was a chief boiler technician who told me what a great job it was. And, oh, he lied [laughs]. I will tell you, this is not just for me, but through your conversations with anyone else in here, one of the most common refrains you will hear from folks who served in, ah—in any of the branches is that, “My recruiter lied to me.” [laughs]. That is just—it should be on Hallmark cards. But regardless, when I started on board the Shenandoah, which was a tender ship—in other words, it was a repair ship, so it brought supplies and performed repairs on other ships while they were deployed. So we would accompany battle groups of ships that would go on cruises. For example, Mediterranean cruise would normally be scheduled to last for about six months. It would include an aircraft carrier, some destroyers, support ships, this-and-that, and we would—we were the type of ship that would go a long with that group in order to keep them functioning over that six month period. So my job was to work on propulsion—stuff which is what boilers were for. We built steam. Interesting experience. It was also one of the first ships in the Navy that had a sexually-integrated crew. Because at that time, women were not permitted in contact—in combat roles. Because this particular ship was considered a support ship it was—it did not put anyone in direct combat. Ergo, you could have women sailors. Barnes What year was… Kidd That was 1984. Barnes What—when did you come to NTC [Naval Training Center] Orlando? Kidd I was stationed starting in June of 1989. I was—what was called? My first shore duty command, which meant that I did not have to go to sea for a while. Barnes And how did you come about getting that assignment? Kidd My assignment at NTC Orlando was actually with the subcommand RTC Orlando—Recruit Training Command. This is kind of important—an important distinction in that, as background, if—in order to get promoted in the military, you had to show your skill and availability, flexibility in different types of roles. Those roles would usually include assignments. Now, there were certain assignments that you could take in the Navy that enhanced your resume, and virtually guaranteed your promotion to the next level. For enlisted people, promotion—you went through E[nlisted Rank] 6—is essentially strictly a test taking job. The Navy says how many it needs, you take a paper test, and if you score high enough on that test, you get promoted. The promotion to E-7—the E-7 through E-9 grades, which is senior enlisted, is based on different criteria, along with taking tests. It’s also a lot of interview and examination of your service record, what type of assignments you had, skill sets, etc. Performance-based. So, if you wanted to be promoted to E-7, which is kind of important for a number of reasons, you had to take some demanding assignments. RTC Orlando recruit—being a recruit company commander slot, there was one of those type of assignments that would get you—if you completed it successfully, odds are you were gonna get promoted . Barnes So you arrived in 1989 to… Kidd I was there through—through 1980—from ’89 through ’93. Barnes And what were your impressions of the base and/or the Orlando area when you arrived? Kidd Oh, Orlando’s beautiful, compared to Norfolk [laughs]. The base had—was a mixture of buildings that were 60 years old and brand new. From—the base, of course, was originally an [U.S.] Army—was an [U.S.] Air For—Army Air Force base built back in World War II. And it had been—in the 1960s—supposed to be closed, but Lyndon [B.] Johnson did a deal with one of the, uh, Congress people here for Central Florida, in order to get the congressmen’s votes for the Civil Rights Act [of 1965]. Lyndon Johnson did a deal with him—said, “Well, we’ll keep the base open instead of closing it so you have jobs.” And they transferred it over to the Navy. The Navy—you might note that we do live in Florida, and that Orlando is damn near as far from the water as you can get. So that might seem an odd place for a Navy base [laughs]. But any rate, that’s why it was there. But it was a beautiful base, and the city of Orlando of course was growing at that time. Lots of great building going on, lots of energy, sunshine. All things you might expect. Barnes So while you were at RTC, what were your responsibilities? Your day in and day out responsibilities. Kidd [coughs] I was what is known as a “recruit company commander.” Many people recognize that from what they are in the other services called “drill sergeants.” But the Navy being different, we’re recruit company commanders. It was our job to supervise folks who were brand new to the military experience—Navy, in particular—from the time they arrived on a bus until they had met certain standards and were prepared to go on to their first set of actual technical schools. We trained them in how to wear uniforms, appropriate sense of discipline, how to recognize military rank, appropriate forms of behavior. The, uh—the recruit training experience is something that’s been around since Roman times. It is designed to take someone who is a civilian, with civilian values, regardless of where they come from, and first break down their identity as a civilian, for who they were in the first place, and then build them back up with a new identity—sense of recognition as a member of that military group. So that is what—that’s what we did over the course of eight weeks. We spent a couple of weeks being very nit-picky about any—any deviation from standards, by the quarter inch. Sometimes sixteenth of an inch. Once you did that—that normally took about two weeks—and from that point on, you would spend your time having them involved in basic classes—classroom activities—and then participation in group activities in order to build up that identity. Barnes And how did the recruits—obviously, they may have all been different—but how did the recruits seem to act to the environment, to the training, to the region, did they come in raw and left as… Kidd Left as sailors, which is what they were. It’s such a wide range. It is. But when you say how they reacted when they came in, that’s kind of the point. The point is you do have a wide range of individuals, and the point is to put them out in the end of that eight-week training as similarly as possible. So they all met certain standards. So we really didn’t care how they felt when they got there. We already knew that the system was designed to be uncomfortable for them. It was designed to be challenging. An example is routinely you would—their first day of arrival, regardless, they would be scheduled to come in somewhere between ten o’clock at night and four o’clock in the morning. They would be herded into a—basically a dormitory room with bunk beds, regardless of what time they got there. With their stuff, whatever they carried on which was minimal, and their clothing. At 04:00—or four o’clock in the morning—myself and another person would come in and wake them up. It was not unusual for us to wake them up by banging metal trashcans, or using an air horn, or both. The idea was—thinking of it as shock and awe, because they would lead, for the next couple of weeks, 18-hour days, in order to—as part of that process to change their value system. Barnes Now did you guys—now you as an instructor, and you can answer for the recruits if you know as well, did you guys have normal off-base activities? Downtime? Anything that you guys liked to do? Kidd The recruits did not. During that eight-week training, uh—let me rephrase that. During the eight-week training period, the recruits would normally go through six weeks basically [coughs]—six weeks of training of varying intensities. Initially, extremely intense, a little less so, and more cerebral[?] as it went along, more detailed-oriented. By the end of six weeks—normally somewhere—the sixth or seventh weekend, they were there. they would be escorted by company commanders like me to some type of off-base activity. Go to SeaWorld, or something else along that line. The following week they’d be allowed to go without escorts. Like that weekend when they graduated, which was either—normally the end of their seventh week. When they graduated they would have that evening to go out and do whatever they were—then they would come back they would have two or three more days before they actually left the base and went onto their next command. Depends on the schedule, on the way it fell apart. So by and large, the company commanders—no. We, the company commanders, were horribly mistreated [laughs]. I’m sorry, I’m just playing. It was a very challenging duty for a company commander, because in the shipboard Navy, normally you deploy for six months. You’re gone from home, family, all the rest of that, the boat’s gone. And you go for shorter deployments, depending on what type of command you were on. It was nothing for shipboard Navy to be gone, physically, nine months a year from your home and family. Very strenuous. Well, when you came to a training command here, it was just as bad. Problem was it was even more intense, and worse your family is just down the street from wherever you lived. So when—when we say it was intense for the recruits, understand the company commanders did everything the recruits did, were with them that entire time. Plus an hour before and an hour after. So it was not unusual for company commanders to have weeks where they averaged four hours sleep a night. After—after three consecutive—the normal schedule was to train three companies, and then take a break from being a company commander to being an instructor in teaching classes, which was normal life. you actually had like weekends off. But for six months you were pretty burnt out [laughs]. The effect on company commanders being stationed there—the normal billeting there was a three-year duty. When you have orders to go there, you are expected to be there for three years. And the divorce rate there for married couples was an excess of 70 percent. It was just that strenuous, and demanding a duty. It was pretty intense. But for those people that survived it and did well, God bless them all. Barnes But you mentioned classes that recruits went to. What were some of the classes that they take? Kidd Recruits would go through classes—everything from an introduction to naval history. Teaching them about John Paul Jones— it was a very much—very light overview, very light, of the years the Mili[tary], the years the Navy got started, some of the high points, and very early naval history, etc. That type of thing. They would also go through courses—classes on basic hygiene, behavioral sense. I would call it “social and ethical education”, as in teaching what the standards were. We had class everything to naval history to rape awareness, all of which were taught be certified instructors like myself. So everything from how to wear your clothes properly, to the language of the Navy—as in, for example, what a “bulkhead” is. It’s a wall, by the way, if you didn’t know. All floors are decks. ceilings are overheads. There’s a shipboard terminology the Navy uses that no one else does. So you had to learn that. You also had to learn neat stuff like “bits,” “bites” as they applied to the Navy. They have nothing to do with high-tech, they have a whole lot to do with ropes [laughs]. So these are all things that—there’s a wide range of topics. Largely related to how to behave in a shipboard environment. Barnes Now did you instruct male and female recruits? Kidd Oh, yes. I did [laughs]. Barnes So—so what was that experience like for the recruits? For the officers? Kidd For the—let me start with for the recruits, because I got a lot of feedback from them. This was a unique time in the Navy’s history—my particular time era—because of the fact that, while Recruit Training Center of Orlando had always—as long as the Navy had been accepting women—had been the training center for women enlisted recruits. In the late ‘80s-early ‘90s, the Navy as a policy made the commitment to do training of both sexes together in the same room. No separation. this-and-that and the other things. The Navy was very, very concerned, from a policy matter, that they—there would be problems involving throwing a lot of young people together in a stressed environment, where they might be encouraged to look for some release from that stress. What a stunning idea [laughs]. So in the Navy’s infinite wisdom, they made it the responsibility of the trainers and stuff to emphasize to these young men and young women every day that having sex was not a good thing. So you might want to imagine telling a drunk, “Don’t think about pink elephants.” So yes. It became challenging in that respect, and young women and young men, being what young women and young men are, there were some rather creative attempts to get around the rules there. Not a big deal. In the big scheme of things, it’s hardly—but it was more amusing than anything else. The point was that it added a note to the training environment that didn’t exist elsewise in the Navy. And it also led to some major changes in the way recruits were actually trained. The history of training recruits is—regardless of branch of service, again—is very much tied into the process of breaking down the individualized identity in the first place, and rebuilding them. Anyone who has ever watched the movies knows that there’s a certain amount of blunt language that is used, and historically has been used. Well, the United States Navy, as training command, decided that that type of language was no longer to be used. So within an environment where you have certain expectations by many of the recruits— come in expecting that this is going to be the toughest thing they ever did. some of them were a little disappointed. Probably a minority, but nonetheless you had folks who were very highly motivated to be there looking for the challenge of a lifetime. Those are a lot of recruits who came to the military simply because they were looking for direction. That was their number one reason for entering. It wasn’t because of job. it was because they wanted a sense of who they were within a larger community. I cannot count the number of kids—and I’ll say “kids,” because I was in my mid-30s and most of them were in their teens—who came to me after, upon completion of training or during it, and expressed their pride about being part of the organization, knowing what they were doing, having goals that were clear to them at that time. So by and large, for the vast majority of recruits coming through, boot camp—RTC Orlando—was a very positive experience. I think most of them—I never met one who afterwards[sic]—many of the kids I trained here, even 20 years later, are in touch with me via Facebook or something else, who haven’t expressed what a positive impact the experience had on their lives. Funniest thing I ever—I actually had probably over the course of my three and a half years, 13 companies that I’ve pushed, which was pretty much the record. More than once, at the end of the training cycle for the kids, the eight-week period, when they approach their graduation, the night before their actual graduation ceremony, their parents and families would come to visit. And more than once, I’d have some young man come introduce me to his single mother. And then come to me afterwards and say, “I wish I had a dad like you.” Which was a little scary when you think about all the horrible things I said to that boy [laughs] not two months before that. But that gives you an idea of how many of them looked at the experience—was something to go through. It was finite. They did it. They knew they were changed. For us, as the trainers, the vast majority of us were already set in our career goals. We already knew where we were headed, so it was a job to be done. Most of us took a great deal of pride in the job. Sometimes it was challenging. By and large, I can say this from my own experience. and I stay in touch with five or six folks from those times. Everyone shares relatively similar experiences. Both the joys and the frustrations. So, uh, it’s a job. Barnes There’s[sic] two features of the base we just want to kind of get your feedback on, and then you can let us know how they relate either to the base or to what you did. So that would be the Blue Jacket, USS Blue Jacket… Kidd Right. Barnes And then the Grinder. Kidd [laughs] I almost forgot about that being called the “Grinder.” The USS Blue Jacket was, at the time I was there, pretty much an unused reminder—mainly because by 1989, it had been there for 30-odd years. It was broken down, unsafe. Never went on board it. Never took recruits on board it. Because it would have cost money to fix, and that’s not what money got put into. But it was a little bit of humor for all of us there, because the Blue Jacket was physically located at one end of the “Grinder.” The “Grinder” was—I think was a huge patio space—cement, you name it. But it was located there. you could see it. And it was nothing to march around in, or run around in, as the case may be. And there were people from the base maintenance crews who had the job of keeping it painted, and all the rest of that. But other than that, it really did not have—while I was there, and subsequent, because the base closed two years after I left—three years after I left. It really was nothing more than an ornament. Before that, I understood they used to do some facsimile training onboard simply to say, “This is a boat.” “This is a rope.” “This is a gang-way.” “This is a flag or pennant.” [laughs] And that’s fine. You need those things, but it was not used for that in my time. Now the “Grinder”, on the other hand—one of the primary tools of training for all the boot camps—for all the services boot camps—particularly here, is marching. Marching means that you get a group of people together, you teach them to march in step as one. Their arms and legs moving at the same, each—left arm, left leg. Everything moving at the same time, to a certain rhythm, dressed a certain way. And the “Grinder” was where you taught them to do that. And you yelled at them a lot. And, you know, you played loud music—loud marshal music, in a lot of cases. In other cases, you played some serious, four-beat, rock’n’roll, because it all has the same beat if you get them to march to it. The fun—I won’t say fun, because it certainly wasn’t for them [laughs]. After the first six hours, if you’re out in the middle of the sun, it’s far less entertaining than you might think. But this is Orlando. It gets hot here. Certain times of the year you’d be out on the “Grinder”—you’d had companies who were out on the “Grinder” every day, or at least in the evening, for two or three hours at a time. At other times of the year, when heat and humidity didn’t allow for it, because of heat stress factors, you had companies that never—did not spend a single day on the “Grinder,” simply because physical requirements were such. they weren’t allowed to. They may have gone through basic swim instruction at some point, where they had to cross the “Grinder” to get to the training facility, but other than that, they simply never saw it. Which made a challenge for company commanders like me who had to teach them how to march. “It’s where?” [laughs] “Oh, okay.” So—but you would also use the “Grinder” as a—let’s call it a “training tool.” As in, the companies would be in their particular barracks, and as a company commander, perhaps you were dissatisfied for some reason with the level or performance, or moral, or whatever other particular instance. So you might send your people out the back door, out onto the “Grinder”, and have them run around the “Grinder,” uh, at sometimes two to three times, and then report back in. And woe unto to anyone who fell behind [laughs]. And so you could use those as disciplinary, but… BarnesSo were there any other structures on the base that you remember vividly that you used a lot? or recruits may have remembered vividly, because they trained a lot? Kidd Well, uh, classroom building, which I believe is still there. uh, but you had other than the cafeteria, uh, which of course was the primary spot for all of the recruits. Um, you had the firefighting command. You had what’s call WSMP, uh, which was—I hate to say water sports—water systems and physical training, which was the gymnasium and pool. Those are pretty much what the recruits saw for those eight weeks. They simply did not spend that much time unsupervised or as individuals. They just weren’t given it. Once they left that—that recruit training command portion of thing, there was a lot of the base to be seen, but they were not allowed to do that while they were recruits. Barnes Now did you ever spend on NTC as a non-recruit commander? Kidd Yes. Barnes And what did you do in that capacity? Kidd I taught at nuclear power school. Barnes Okay. Kidd I taught remedial mathematics. neat stuff like that. Kids who had, or for young men—it was always young men—who had signed up to go into nuclear power training. It was very high-end stuff for them. Some of them needed refreshers in their math in order to be able to handle the theoretical stuff in there, but that was just like being a classroom teacher anywhere. Normal 8-5 working hours. Monday through Friday. Barnes Now, at the time, was that the only nuclear training facility in the… Kidd It was the initial. Barnes The initial? Kidd The training pipe. I’m going to use the word “pipeline,” which many people recognize—as in like, there are varying points along there. Uh, in the military in particular, there’s always ongoing training, regardless of what you’re in. Recruit training is simply the very beginning of the pipeline. From that point on, regardless whether you’re going to be a, uh—if you’re planning on just going out as an E-1 to a ship someplace—“Congratulations. You’re gone.” You are a seaman apprentice or a seaman recruit is what a[sic] E-1 is. You are going to go through additional training, just to teach you what a boat is all about. That’s called “apprentice training,” and that was also at Naval Training Center. It was separate from recruit training. Uh, for more technical schools, then there was[sic] various pipelines. For example, nuclear power, which was one of the most restricted—restrictive—qualifications. Um, for someone to get into it they had to—well, of course, they had to be a high school graduate, but on top of that, they had to have certain score on Navy-wide entrance tests when they came in. Um, certain behavioral records, etc. Uh, we used to go by what we called AFQT scores—Armed Forces Qualifying Test. They were scored on a 0 to 99 basis. You could not be accepted into nuclear power program, unless you scored above 90 on that test. Trust me. there were a lot of people that didn’t. I trained recruits that were as low as 13. You can imagine the level of literacy for those folks. Um, so—but at any rate, you also had, uh, initial training for electronic weaponry. Uh, electronic—you had training for folks going into, uh, basic seamanship, like boatswain’s mates school. A variety of things took place on the Naval Training Center Command. These are all initial and secondary schools, prior to sending someone out as qualified in that particular field to, uh, command. And some of them might move on to a different training command. When you spoke about the Nuclear Power Training Command, it—about a two, at that time—it took roughly two and half years from the time someone came in, as a recruit, to the time they actually went to a command to be around—to a seagoing command that had a nuclear reactor on it. So some of the training is intense. Barnes And you were at the base at the infancy of the simulator training? Was that beginning to develop why you were there? Kid Yes. It was. Uh, first off, all military training for years, has been—there’s simulation involved. You need to understand what simulation is, of course. Not all of it is high-tech electronic gizmo games. And that’s—you mentioned earlier the Blue Jacket was a stab at simulating seagoing environment. Um, many of the, uh—for example, I give the example of firefighting school as the single best example. Oh, I almost forgot, because you earlier asked about one that the recruits would remember. They all remembered the tear gas chamber. All of them. And that’s another example of simulation, because, uh—well, for firefighting, of course, you would walk people through and train them in class about the basics of actual firefighting skills. Then you would walk them through donning the shipboard firefighting gear—boots, heavy jackets, facemask, oxygen breathing apparatus, this, that, and the other thing. Put them on fire hoses, put them into a building, and light controlled fires. Then have trained groups operate the hoses in order to work those. Firefighter is a major, major skill that is consistently trained onboard ships all the time. For the obvious reasons that you don’t call the fire department in the middle of the ocean. So [laughs] that’s kind of—so when you talk simulation, obviously there’s[sic] varying levels of simulation and varying degrees of realism. The more realistic you can make the—the training more effective it was. Does that answer that question for you? Barnes Yes. It does. Thank you. So when you left—you left in 1993? Kidd Yes. Barnes Was that your final year in the Navy or did you have another assignment? Kidd Oh. No. From there I went out to Guam. I was attached originally to a ship that was getting ready to be decommissioned. Um, the refrigerator services ship that was being decommissioned. A ton of fun. The ship was already 40 years old and, if you can imagine driving a car that’s 40 years old, now [laughs] drive a ship that’s 40 years old. It’s got a few miles on it. But, uh, one of the problems with a ship that’s 40 years old is that it’s got a lot of things on there that were older than 40 years old, including asbestos and this, that, and the other thing, so which I was part and parcel of discovering. So subsequent to that, I thought it was time to stop being Navy, and the Navy agreed with me, but fortunately it hasn’t killed me yet. Barnes Now did you return to this area immediately after leaving the Navy? Kidd No. Barnes Or you just settled here? Kidd Um, two years later, I returned here. I owned a home here I had bought. The fact of the matter is that Central Florida is a beautiful place in comparison to a lot of other places. Um, Orlando was a medium-sized city, uh, so it didn’t have quite the problems of the [Washington,] D.C. area or San Diego[, California], or some of the other places I lived at. Sun always shone and I had this odd thing about I was going to learn to play golf. That lasted about two days [laughs]. Barnes I can help you with that, if you decide to change your mind Kidd [laughs]. Barnes So what were your initial thoughts when you heard that NTC Orlando was closing? Kidd I wasn’t concerned about it at all. Um, largely because for me, my experiences in the Navy were pretty broad. Um, while many people—if you were career Navy and worked all the way through retirement, which would be 20 years, at least, uh, you were stationed at multiple commands. Lots of them. And that meant that things came and went—people you knew, people you were intense, great friends with for a short period of time. You lost track of shortly thereafter, simply because you were separated. So, uh, loosing Naval Training Center Orlando, largely because it wasn’t on the ocean anywhere—it was just a set of buildings—really wasn’t a whole lot different than any other set of buildings any other place. And of course, the Navy did not get rid of recruit training. They simply consolidated it all up in Michigan—or Illinois, rather. So it was never about the location. It was all about the process. Barnes What do you think is the Navy’s legacy to the Central Florida region? Kidd A lot of folks are unaware that Central Florida is the location of the second largest group of retired military—military retirees—in the nation. It tends to concentrate a lot of people here. The fact that we had the Navy base here for so long is really a very vital part of that. Um, and those retirees have a very strong commitment to the values they were trained in, and they live and work with those every day. They bring that as part of the palate of colors that is here in Central Florida. Um, people who have a strong memory of learning about responsibility, decency, reliability, ethics, in general, and that shared commitment—those shared values. They live here and there’s a lot of them. So the effect of that command, that physical base, and the people that worked there is something that will—that doesn’t only exist now, but it’s going to echo for quite a while. Um, that, uh, is something that the Orlando and Central Florida community should be very proud of and they should recognize that that contribution, while again, because we’re not located on the water, people don’t necessarily grasp. But for the number of retirees here, who came specially because—either returned because of that, or came because there was that presence here—the impact is really immeasurable. Barnes So as a former recruit commander, or as a former recruit, why do you think someone would want to come back? Or what do you think someone would like to see or be reminded of if they came and visited the Lone Sailor Memorial [Project]? Kidd Being. First place, there’s[sic] several Lone Sailor monuments throughout the nation, and this is a great location for them. And in the public mind, uh, whether you’ve been in the service or not, uh, that image is rather striking. It implies a lot of things. For the people who served, the people who were Navy and went through basic training—regardless of where they went, but specifically here in Orlando—it reminds them of a dramatic change in their lives where they took control of themselves and their destiny. They made that choice to say, “I don't want to do what I was doing. I’m going to be different.” And they learned a new value system. They learned to be part of a generations-old organization that had a history they could be proud of, and that they could carry with them and they could then share with their own friends, children, subsequent generation. It means a lot. It means a lot to a lot of people. and far more than just movies that no longer get watched [laughs]. The fact that we trained a lot of people—we sent a lot of people out to represent and defend the nation—some did not come back—needs to be remembered. We need to be reminded of why that happened. What those values where. And why they’re still important. Barnes Very good. Is there anything I missed that you think would be relevant either to the project or to your story? Kidd I appreciate that y’all took time to ask me the questions. No. I think we pretty much covered everything we'll do on camera. All [laughs] Barnes Well, very good. We appreciate your time. Kidd Not a problem. AFQT AFS-3 apprentice training Armed Forces Qualifying Test boiler technician boiler technicians boot camp boot camps Civil Rights Act Community Veterans History Project Congress CVHP E-1 E-6 E-7 E-9 Enlisted Rank 1 Enlisted Rank 6 Enlisted Rank 7 Enlisted Rank 9 Facebook Grinder Guam Naval Base John Paul Johnson, Lyndon B. Jones, John Paul Kidd, Scott T. Lone Sailor Memorial Committee Lone Sailor Memorial Project LPD-15 Lyndon Baines Johnson Maldonado, Fernando Naval Station Great Lakes Naval Training Center Command Naval Training Center Orlando Navy Memorial of Central Florida NS Great Lakes NTC Orlando nuclear power Nuclear Power Training Command orlando recessions recruit commanders recruit company commanders Recruit Training Command Orlando Richland, Washington RTC Orlando tear gas chambers U. S. Air Force U.S. Army U.S. Army Air Force U.S. Navy USS Blue Jacket USS Iowa USS Niagara Falls USS Ponce veterans https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/1382d312f61236de0818f1d85f3c268a.pdf 6a8fc9e72438766c811fa07b8b83cba5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection Subject Museums--Florida Schools Elementary schools Grammar schools Sanford (Fla.) Description The Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection encompasses a broad range of materials and items ranging from the late 19th Century into the present. The collection includes artifacts, photographs, documents, videocassettes, and other historical records pertaining to the history of the Sanford Grammar School, the Sanford community through the years, and the history of teaching and learning within the United States from the 19th century to the 2010s. The Student Museum has collaborated with the University of Central Florida and established the UCF Public History Center (PHC). All of the Student Museum's collections are presently housed at the PHC. The goal of the PHC is to promote access to history through ground-breaking research connecting local to global, provide cutting-edge hands-on educational programs for students and visitors, and to engage the community in contributing to and learning from history. Contributor Student Museum UCF Public History Center Language eng Type Collection Coverage Sanford High School, Sanford, Florida Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project Student Museum UCF Public History Center Curator Marra, Katie Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Public History Center/Student Museum External Reference "Public History Center." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Student Museum." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. Alternative Title Student Museum and PHC Collection Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/32" target="_blank">General Photographic Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/73" target="_blank">Seminole County Public Schools Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer See, MacKenzie Interviewee Parks, Serena Fisher Rankin Location Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 DVD Duration 32 minutes and 5 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 195kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Serena Rankin Parks Fisher Alternative Title Oral History, Fisher Parks Subject Sanford (Fla.) Teachers--Florida Educators--Florida Museums--Florida Schools Gardens--Florida Students--Florida Special education--Florida Description Oral history of Serena Rankin Parks Fisher, a resident of Seminole County, Florida. Parks was born in Concord, North Carolina, on March 3, 1941. She has worked as a social studies teacher, a media center specialist, and a social studies resource teacher for Seminole County Public Schools, as wells as a Museum Specialist/Teacher Curator from 1992-2000. She then as a Volunteer/Docent at the Student Museum and Center for Social Studies, located at 301 West Seventh Street in Sanford, Florida. This interview was conducted by MacKenzie See at UCF Public History Center on October 8, 2012. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:01 Involvement with the Student Museum 0:03:52 Influence on the community 0:06:02 Accomplishments 0:09:23 Favorite stories 0:13:51 Field trips and student behavior 0:15:43 Role of the UCF Public History Center 0:18:03 Favorite room 0:19:43 Advice for volunteers and future of the museum 0:23:19 Hands-on learning, students, and other purposes Abstract Oral history interview of Serena Rankin Parks Fisher. Interview conducted by MacKenzie See at the UCF Public History Center, in Sanford, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Parks, Serena Fisher Rankin. Interviewed by MacKenzie See. UCF Public History Center, IMG_0036. October 8, 2012. Audio/video record available. UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>. <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/31" target="_blank">Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 32-minute and 5-second oral history: Oral history interview of Serena Rankin Parks Fisher. Interview conducted by MacKenzie See at the UCF Public History Center, in Sanford, Florida. Coverage University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Student Museum and Center for Social Studies, Sanford, Florida Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Creator See, MacKenzie Parks, Serena Fisher Rankin Date Created 2012-10-08 Date Modified 2012-11-14 2014-07-16 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 466 MB 160 KB Medium 32-minute and 5-second DVD 13-page typed transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Provenance Originally created by MacKenzie See and Serena Rankin Parks Fisher. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the UCF Public History Center and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project UCF Public History Center Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository UCF Public History Center/Student Museum External Reference "Public History Center." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Exhibits." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Student Museum." Seminole County Public Schools. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/WU_e8k8SgOA" target="_blank">Oral History of Serena Rankin Parks Fisher</a> Transcript See This is an oral history interview of Serena [Rankin Parks] Fisher. The interview was conducted by MacKenzie See at the [UCF] Public History Center on Augu—er, on October 8th of 2012. Interview topics include experience with the Sanford Student Museum [and Center for the Social Studies] and Public History Center. Okay. Um, what is your name? Fisher My name is Serena Parks Fisher. See Um, and what is your occupation? Fisher My occupation is dilettante. In other words, I’m a retired teacher and I now do things that I enjoy doing. A little of this and a little of that. See Um, and how long have you lived in the Sanford[, Florida] area? Fisher I don’t live—well, it depends on what you consider the Sanford area. I do not live in Sanford, but I have lived in Seminole County since 1978. See Okay, um, how did you become involved with the Public History Center and what is your role here? Fisher Okay, uh, um, I’m a little confused about you asking me about the Public History Center, because, uh, my involvement with the Public History Center came as a result of my involvement with the Seminole County Public School[s’] Student Museum, and I was involved with the Student Museum. First, as a social studies teacher in the school district. At the time the museum was created, I was hearing about it, etc., and at that point, every school was asked to submit a display that gave information about their school. Now, that would have been during the time period of [19]85-‘86 and so forth. Um, then as time went on, I left the social studies classroom, and went into a media center at a middle school, and again, I would hear about groups going to the Student Museum, and then later, I became, uh, the social studies resource teacher for the district, and then from that position, had the opportunity to become the museum specialist, which was the teaching position at the Student Museum, and as such, I was the teacher, curator, what—whatever, and so, uh, I retired in 2000 and went about my merry way just being a volunteer at the Student Museum, until there was a crisis regarding the restoration of the building, and there was some, um, controversy regarding that, and so I was involved as a member of the restoration committee, and then that morphed into, uh, UCF [University of Central Florida] having the agreement with the school district and the Public History Center, and I must say that I could not be more delighted about this relationship between the University of Central Florida Public History Center and what, uh, has taken place with the school district, because I feel now that the Student Museum—Public History Center—will be achieving the goal that it originally was intended to achieve. See Um, in what ways do you feel that the Student Museum is important to the community? Fisher Well, I feel that the Public History Center and the Student Museum is important to the community—just the building itself. One of the few remaining examples of Romanesque revival architecture—educational architecture—that is, uh, in the state of Florida. So just from an architectural standpoint, I think the building has a special purpose, but I think more importantly, the reason for me that it is so important is that it is a hands-on museum for students coming through, so that they learn by being involved and actually doing work here at the center. I think that for adults in the community, um, in many ways it’s a reminder of what their school days might have been like and also a reminder of things they have heard their family, um, talk about, and I feel something that the Public History Center will be working on now is using the archives here at the Public History Center, so that those who are doing research can find out more about the past in this area. Um, uh, so I think that is more speaking to the building and the interpretive exhibits, uh, here in the building. Uh, I also feel that this is a very unique setting, because of the teaching gardens here, and there are other hands-on museums in [U.S.] National Register [of Historic Places] buildings, but I don’t know of any other that is a hands-on museum in a National Register building and also has the teaching gardens, and I think this is an added dimension here. See Um, you were telling me earlier about the three things that you thought were really important about, um… Fisher During me my time here? See During your time here [laughs], yes. Can you tell me more about those? Fisher Okay, I interpreted my job here—as a museum specialist—that I was a teacher—that my job was to work with students every day and to also work with the teachers, uh, and this gave me many opportunities, not only for, uh, elaborating on curriculum, but also in providing for in-services and so forth, but looking back over my time here at the museum, the three things that I am most proud of—that I can say, “Well, this is something tangible that I did,” uh, was seeing that, um, the gardens were established. This was something I wanted to do, and I realized when I was talking to the students in the Native American room<a title="">[1]</a> about the three sisters and, um, about the plants, the crops that were grown by the Native Americans, or in the Pioneer Room<a title="">[2]</a> talking about the three G’s—grits, greens, and gravy. I realized that many students did not quite understand about—what I was talking about. “What are these vegetable for?” For them, these things just came from the store in frozen packages or in cans, and so I thought if they could actually see the plants growing, that that would be important, and fortunately there was, in the neighborhood, a master gardener, Walt Paget, who needed to have a project, and therefore, he was the one who actually came, and we worked together in establishing the very first garden, which was more of a pioneer-oriented garden, but I felt that the establishment of the teaching gardens—showing plants, herbs, and also the historic rose garden— that this was a significant, uh, development during my time here, and the other two things may seem trivial, but to me, they made a difference, and one was having the animal sounds in the Native American room. I thought that, with the subdued lighting, that created more of an atmosphere of traveling back in time to a Native American village, and then here in the Turn of the Century Classroom[: Lessons from 1902]—the ticking of the clock. because I realized that many students could—are just accustomed to digital clocks and had never heard a clock ticking, and so we not only have a clock that ticks, but the face of the clock has Roman numerals, which again, served as a teaching tool. So I guess the three things, when I look back on my tenure here as a museum specialist, were the gardens, the animal sounds, and the ticking clock. See What’s your favorite story about the Public History Center or the Student Museum? Fisher I have many, many [laughs] that I guess would be favorites that are quite different. Um, two immediately come to mind. One involves students. I had the privilege of working with the tea—uh, a teacher of the autistic, uh, students at Eastbrook Elementary [School], and we worked on a curriculum that we would have the students visited once a month throughout the entire school year. I found that most of the students who were coming were not able to communicate with us verbally, but they seemed to have a real appreciation. They could identify items and so on and so forth. So we felt that we were accomplishing something, and then one day, we were in the Pioneer room, and I had brought down the items from the American Girls book that corresponded to the pioneer period or to a pioneer period, and one of the students in the class was examining the items, and he picked up the item and called it by the name in the book—the, uh, American Girls book, and the teacher had told me earlier that he had read all of the books, but they weren’t sure if he were—was really understanding what he had read. He picked up the lunch pail—and the pail was called a “tenet”—and he picked it up and said that word, and the teacher was astounded and she said, “Did you tell him this?” And I said, “No,” and she said, “I did not.” His mother could not believe it, and that’s when the teacher and the mother realized that this student was reading these books and truly was understanding. That was a memorable day. Another memorable day was a very early morning knock on the door, uh, at the Student Museum, and an older man was there with his wife and asked if he could come in, and he explained that he had just come in on the auto train—uh, was here in Sanford, because of the auto train, and they were headed on into South Florida, but as a child he had lived here in Sanford, and this was his elementary school, and he wanted to show it to his wife. He asked if he might go upstairs to the auditorium, and he began telling his wife about the plays that the students put on here, and that one of the most proud moments in his life was being in a school play, and that his parents had come to the performance, and how proud he felt, and that he was just bursting with pride when he greeted his parents after the play, and they told him—this was in the depths of the [Great] Depression—that this would be his last time at the school—that they had lost their house, and they moved from the area, and he said that they had to move in with relatives in another state, and he went from this high point, where he was feeling so good to—about himself to a point where he felt that he was—he—he didn’t have anything anymore, and he wanted to come back and show his wife this location, where he had once felt so good about himself. See Um, did you ever have any students who misbehaved during a field trip [laughs]? Fisher Um, it depends on what you call “misbehave.” Um, I dressed in the role of a turn-of-the-century teacher, and I—I—I did not have any real problems. I had some I had to speak to, and, uh, I tend to use a lower voice when I am really serious and really stern, and it worked out. I think one of my interesting experiences, though, uh, took place when I student came in at lunchtime, and I just—he was joining his class—and I just assumed the student had been to a doctor’s appointment or something like that, and I noticed that the other students were very much interested in talking to him and I thought, Well, you know, maybe it was an unusual appointment or something, but it was at lunch and they were chatting, you know? So that was it, and after lunch, I took the group to Grandma’s Attic, where they had the opportunity to try on clothing and so forth, and, uh, that’s when I realized that the student had been given—at the appointment in the morning—an ankle monitor, and that’s why [laughs] his classmates were very much interested in how his appointment had gone, but it—it was no problem with the child. He cooperated beautifully. See Um, how do you see the Public History Center’s role in the community changing, now that it’s open to the public, instead of just for fourth grade field trips? Fisher Okay, the key thing there is “open to the public.” Because of very limited staff— it was very difficult to have it open for extended hours, and working under the school district, we could not have the public in when students were here, and so that meant there were just limited opportunities for the public to come. I now see this for—as an opportunity for, uh, people from all over whether they’re coming in by auto train or the airport or, uh, wherever—having the opportunity to visit here, because of the extended hours and the fact that the, um, Public History Center will be open on the weekend. I also envision that there will be learning opportunities—special programs for adults here, and I had mentioned one that I hope—I would love to see it develop—um, where there was to be a workshop here for adults, where they would be given the opportunity to start writing down their own personal history—their own life story, [air conditioner turns on] and I think that this would be an ideal setting for that, because there are so many visual props that would remind them of episodes in their own life, that they might want to jot down these stories and pass on. Now, we’re probably being distracted by the sound of the air conditioner, but that points out [laughs] a challenge now, but it also points out something special about this building—that the building itself can be used as a teaching tool, with the wonderful windows, and how they were used for light, as well as ventilation, and how the design of the building was also used to take advantage of cross- ventilation, but we obviously have a very loud air conditioner. See [laughs] Um, do you have a favorite room in the museum? Fisher I guess, being a teacher, this Turn of the Century Classroom is my absolute favorite room. Uh, I feel very much at home here, and, um, I have very happy memories of teaching in this room. I have very happy memories of teaching in other areas, but I’m the daughter of a teacher, and in many ways this reminds me of things my mother would tell me about. See Um, do students seem to get more out of some rooms in the museum than others, or does it just depend on the student, or all the rooms equally valuable? Fisher It depends on the students, and it depends on the preparation they have had before they had come here. I think, for me, the beauty of the hands-on experience is that students, who might not excel at the written word or reading in the traditional classroom, all can do very well here because of hands-on and verbal participation, but, um, I think—I think it depends on the student’s own interests, and, uh, again, it probably has a lot to do with the enthusiasm of the guide who is showing them the particular area. That might be a factor, as well. See Um, what advice would you give people who want to volunteer at the museum? Fisher Do it. Uh, the beauty of the Public History Center is that there are so many volunteer opportunities, not just for working with the students. Now, the main[?] one that I found most rewarding was working with the students and the exchange—the interaction—but there are jobs that are needed to be done behind the scenes. Whether it is inventorying the suitcases or books, or whether it is working with the archives, or whether it is working as a gardener in the teaching gardens. I think that there is—or a greeter. Oh, that is a wonderful job for someone who enjoys people, but really does not want to, uh, work with the students in the instructional program. That is a wonderful opportunity. So I really—that there is something here for everyone, and so, if someone is a little tentative about volunteering, I would suggest that they come and tour, and say, “Alright. This is what I like to do. What can I do to help you?” See Um, if you could describe your ideal future for the Public History Center and the Student Museum, what would it be? Fisher [laughs] For the instructional program to continue for fourth graders, but also for that program to be expanded, and again, during the time, I was here, I had the opportunity—we had year-round school. We had multi-age classes—that was a phase that the district was going through. I especially enjoyed working with the multi-age classes, because that meant that students came here one year and then they would come the following year, and so we could do different things. I also liked working with teachers on special programs, and I think this is where the Public History Center, working with UCF students, could do a great deal—is working with teachers collaborating—using the resources here at the Public History Center—to develop special programs. I would like to see more in-service staff development done with, um, teachers here. So that teachers, who are required to do certificate renewal, could take a course here at the Public History Center. Again, going back to what I had mentioned about community programs—and I hope that someday there is an elevator, so that we aren’t limited in the use of the auditorium and use of the, um, second level, but I just see this more as a very active center in the community and—where all of us can learn about changes in education and innovation in the education. See Um, what do you think is the ideal age for students to come to the Student Museum? I mean, we’ve heard about the fourth grade field trip. Is—is that about the ideal age or… Fisher Oh, I think it depends on what you are offering. I think that, uh, the fourth grade fit in with the Florida curriculum, but again, depending on what the teacher might be doing—or special programs that could be developed. You see, uh, at one time there was an eighth grade program here as well, and, um, due to budget cuts and so forth, that program had to be eliminated, and also, there were problems scheduling with the middle school schedule, but, um, I—and I have had the opportunity again with year-round education to work with senior high students. So this is the beauty of this facility. It can be taught at so many different levels, depending on where you’re putting your focus. See Um… Fisher I think everyone should come here and, as I said, I am delighted at the potential that I am seeing, the enthusiasm with those from UCF, uh, in transforming this into a Public History Center, and I’m delighted that the public will now have greater access to this facility. See Um, I’ve heard that the Public History Center serves—or has served—a lot of other purposes in the community, other than just as a museum and a teaching facility. I even heard a story about someone getting married here. Um, do you have any experiences with it in other capacities, other than as just the, uh, museum? Fisher Well, I was not involved with someone getting married here, but I know that it has been open, thanks to the Sanford Historic Trust, several years ago inviting the museum to be part of the annual tour. It was opened for that. So for—that would be more of a social, um, learning experience too, but I—I really do not know beyond that. I know students always want to know about ghosts. “Are there ghosts here at the Student Museum?” But I, um, don’t know about that. See Well, speaking of ghosts, um, do you have a favorite aspect of the history of this place? I mean, as a school, as Sanford Grammar, or, um… Fisher Uh, no. I do not. Uh, I think that could definitely be addressed by students who came here, and something that I found very rewarding was when reunion groups from what had been Sanford High School and now is Seminole High School, when they would have their reunions and request that the museum be open on the weekend, so that they could come back and visit. I enjoyed hearing the stories of that and since I had no grown up in the Sanford community. Um, I learned a lot from that, but, um, no. Nothing else I don’t think. See Um, so I’ve heard that there are a lot, um, of seasonal celebrations that take place here, um, especially around fall and things like that. Do you—do you go to those? Or… Fisher Well, in the past, I have volunteered with those, and, um, one of the favorite celebrations—it depends on how the, uh, calendar goes—is the Spring Fest around May Day, because when this was Sanford Grammar School, the May Day celebration was a major celebration for students here, and so—for several years, the Spring Fest has included that dancing of the May Pole, and that was of appeal to those who had gone here remembering their days as students. See Um, we’ve talked a lot about school-age children coming to the Student Museum and Public History Center. Um, is there a minimum age where it’s appropriate to bring children? Fisher Uh, I think it depends on the parents, who would be bringing them. Um, uh, I would think that a child from, I would say, maybe three on—although we have had them in strollers and so forth coming through, but, um, I—I think it depends on—are you talking about them coming just to visit the building, just to see the building or to participate in a program? I—I would think that three would be about the youngest, but it depends on the parents, and, um, what the children have been exposed to before. See Um, what about adults coming here? I mean, I know Student Museum sort of implies that it’s only for children, but do you think there’s something for adults also? Fisher Oh, absolutely, and, um, again, uh—going back to things that I remember—um, I remember, um, an adult friend of mine bringing her mother here, and the mother, uh, was quite elderly and had limited vision, but coming into this classroom and hearing the sound of the footsteps on the hardwood pine floor and so forth, and the ticking of the clock, and just feeling the chalkboards and so forth, brought back memories of her school days, and the mother just began sharing these stories that the daughter had never heard. So I think that this is a multi-generational location. Student Museum—remember that its origins are with the Seminole County Public Schools, so I think that that is larger, but there was another part to that name. It was the School Board of Seminole County’s Student Museum and Center for the Social Studies, and this goes back to the point that I was—wanted to make earlier—was that I think with, um, UCF now and with the emphasis on public history, that this is going to be more of a center for social studies and for adults to be involved. See Alright. Thank you so much for talking to me. Fisher Okay, thank you. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> The Native America Exhibit: Life in an Ancient Timucuan Village. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Pioneer Exhibit: Before the Settlement of Sanford. </div> </div> 7th Street American Girls archive curator docent Eastbrook Elementary educator exhibit Fisher, Serena Rankin garden Geography Lab: Where in the World Are We? ghost Grandma’s Attic May Day maypole media center museum museum specialist National Register of Historic Places Native American Exhibit: Life in an Ancient Timucuan Village oral history Paget, Walt Parks, Serena Fisher Rankin PHC Pioneer Exhibit: Before the Settlement of Sanford Romanesque revival architecture Sanford Sanford Grammar School Sanford Highs School Sanford Historic Trust school SCPS See, MacKenzie Seminole County Seminole County Public Schools Seminole High School Seventh Street social studies social studies resource teacher social studies teacher special education Spring Fest student Student Museum Student Museum and Center for the Social Studies teacher Turn of the Century Classroom: Lessons from 1902 UCF UCF Department of History UCF Public History Center University of Central Florida volunteer https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0b80b5bc8487b9731dfcd96b060cdfbe.pdf 77cfa3896775b0af768f19d54bda7247 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Seminole County Public Schools Collection Alternative Title SCPS Collection Subject Seminole County (Fla.) Schools High schools--Florida Elementary schools Grammar schools Middle schools--Florida Education--Florida Teachers--Florida Educators--Florida Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the educational history of Seminole County, Florida. Items from this collection are donated by the Student Museum and UCF Public History Center. The Student Museum has collaborated with the University of Central Florida and established the UCF Public History Center (PHC). All of the Student Museum's collections are presently housed at the PHC. The goal of the PHC is to promote access to history through ground-breaking research connecting local to global, provide cutting-edge hands-on educational programs for students and visitors, and to engage the community in contributing to and learning from history. Contributor <a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a> <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/31" target="_blank">Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cameron City, Sanford, Florida Crooms Academy, Goldsoboro, Sanford, Florida Chuluota Primary School, Chuluota, Florida East Side Primary School, Sanford, Florida Forest City School, Forest City, Altamonte Springs, Florida Fort Reed, Sanford, Florida Gabriella Colored School, Gabriella, Oviedo, Florida Geneva Colored School, Geneva, Florida Geneva Elementary, Geneva, Florida Georgetown, Sanford, Florida Goldsboro Primary School, Goldsboro, Sanford, Florida Hungerford School, Florida Kolokee, Geneva, Florida Lake Howell High School, Winter Park, Florida Lake Mary School, Lake Mary, Florida Lake Monroe Colored School, Lake Monroe, Sanford, Florida Longwood School, Longwood, Florida Lyman High School, Longwood, Florida Lyman Elementary School, Longwood, Florida Midway, Sanford, Florida Osceola School, Osceola, Geneva, Florida Oviedo Colored School, Curryville, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo High School, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo School, Oviedo, Florida Paola, Florida Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Sanford High School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Junior High School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Middle School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Primary School, Sanford, Florida Seminole County Public Schools, Sanford, Florida Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida South Side Primary School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Wagner Colored School, Florida Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida West Side Primary School, Sanford, Florida Wilson School, Altamonte Springs, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center/Student Museum</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center</a>." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/. "<a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a>." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. Accrual Method Donation Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Velásquez, Daniel Interviewee Driskell, Sharon Karraker Location Geneva, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 34 minutes and 42 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 1728 kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Sharon Karraker Driskell Alternative Title Oral History, Driskell Subject Sanford, (Fla.) Oral history--United States Education--Florida Elementary schools--United States Grammar schools Schools Description Oral history of Sharon Karraker Driskell, who attended Sanford Grammar School for fifth and sixth grade during the 1953-1954 and 1954-1955 school years, respectively. Driskell was born in Kansas on February 24, 1943, but her family migrated to Sanford, Florida. She attended Southside Elementary School, Sanford Grammar School, Sanford Middle School, and Seminole High School. Growing up, Driskell lived off of Celery Avenue. Her father owned a Standard Oil Company filing station, located at the corner of Sanford Avenue and Celery Avenue. After graduating from high school, Driskell married a fireman from the John F. Kennedy Space Center, had two children, and worked at Keith Elementary School in Winter Springs-Idlewild. Topics discussed in the oral history include her experiences prior to attending Sanford Grammar School, her memories at the school, her most memorable experiences, keeping in touch with her former classmates, her favorite place in the building, the subjects she learned in grammar school, being an alumnus of Sanford Grammar School, her thoughts on the current state of the building, misbehaving in school, and schools activities. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:40 Background information 0:01:20 Experiences prior to attending Sanford Grammar School 0:02:15 Typical day at Sanford Grammar School 0:04:16 Maypole dance 0:05:55 Happiest memories at school 0:06:47 Fun activities at school 0:08:00 Memorable experiences 0:09:31 Staying in touch with friends from school 0:12:04 Favorite part of the school campus 0:13:18 Other students 0:15:37 Impact of school events 0:16:17 Activities outside of school 0:17:02 Safety and race relations in Sanford 0:19:09 Miss Sharon 0:21:55 Being an alumnus of Sanford Grammar School 0:22:57 How the school building has changed and the importance of history 0:27:23 Student behavior 0:29:27 Most valuable lesson learned 0:31:56 School activities 0:33:36 Closing remarks Type Moving Image Source Driskell, Sharon Karraker. Interviewed by Daniel Velásquez, October 12, 2012. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/73" target="_blank">Seminole County Public Schools Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 34 minute and 42 second oral history: Driskell, Sharon Karraker. Interviewed by Daniel Velásquez, October 12, 2012. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. Coverage Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum and Center for the Social Studies, Sanford, Florida Creator Velásquez, Daniel Driskell, Sharon Karraker Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2012-10-12 Date Modified 2012-11-14 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 430 MB 155 KB Medium 34 minute and 42 second audio/video recording 16-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Daniel Velásquez and published the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center/Student Museum</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center</a>." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/. "<a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a>." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. "<a href="http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/" target="_blank">Seminole High School</a>." Seminole High School, Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a title="http://youtu.be/q7NMoW5vwKY" href="http://youtu.be/q7NMoW5vwKY" target="_blank">Oral History of Sharon Karraker Driskell</a> Abstract Oral history interview of Sharon Karraker Driskell. Interview conducted by Daniel Velásquez in Geneva, Florida. Date Copyrighted 2012-10-12 Transcript Velásquez So this is Sharon Karraker Driskell. And this interview is about her memories of Sanford Grammar [School], which she attended for the fifth and sixth grade? Driskell Fifth and sixth grade. Right. Velásquez Around the year 1954-1955? Driskell Right. Well actually it was ‘53-‘54 combination, and then ‘55? ‘54-‘55 in the sixth grade. Velásquez And you were born in Kansas? Driskell Right. Velásquez And today is October the 12th, 2012 and we’re at Sharon’s home. My name is Daniel Velásquez. Sharon, can you tell me about yourself, your childhood, and your background? Driskell Well, my background comes that I came from a farm in Kansas, and we moved to Florida, because my father just couldn’t make it on the farm. We came down here, settled in Sanford, started school at Southside, went to Sanford Grammar School. I went to Sanford Middle School and Seminole High School. First graduating class from the school what they call the “new school” now. But I am a housewife, I worked in the Seminole County [Public] School[s] system in this, uh, that Keith Elementary—Winter Springs-Idlewild. My husband was a fireman at the [John F.] Kennedy Space Center. We raised two children here. Velásquez Okay. What were your experiences prior to coming to Sanford Grammar? Driskell Prior to coming to Sanford Grammar, I went to Southside. So I was—I lived very close to there actually. Basically two blocks away from there, and I would walk to school. So when I got to go to Sanford Grammar, I thought I was really doing good[sic], ’cause I was getting to walk a little farther away from Mom and Dad. So it was really exciting for me to walk to school. Velásquez Um, so you grew up mostly in Sanford? Driskell Yeah. Velásquez Okay. Driskell Yeah. I lived off of Celery Avenue. My father owned a business at the corner of [South] Sanford [Avenue] and Celery. It was a Standard Oil [Company] station, and I lived just across the street from there. And then we moved down on Randolph Street, which was way on farther south from there and—yeah. I grew up in Sanford, worked at [J. G.] McCrory’s dime store—Downtown Sanford— when I was an[sic] teenager. I mean Sanford’s just home, and I love it. I’ve always loved it. Velásquez Okay. Can you describe what your typical day at Sanford Grammar was like? Driskell [laughs] That’s a lot of years back. You’re asking almost the impossibility. I remember—the one thing that I did remember was the teacher that I had there. Her name was Miss Sharon. And there—well, I thought it was so odd that her name was my name. And it just—she was a very nice lady. A very young lady— young teacher. Um, we didn’t have a lunchroom per se, like they have today, where food was served to you—that I remember, because my mother always packed my lunch and I carried it with me, and I was a picky eater I guess—I don’t remember, I don’t remember that much back. But I remember the programs that we had and the auditorium upstairs. I had the first room that I was in was downstairs, and then the next year I went—I got to go upstairs to the first room on the left-hand side up there. And I thought that was really, really cool, because I’d never been in a school that had an upstairs before. And this was very awesome to me to be able to be into a big school, because the school, where I was raised—went to is in Kansas was a one-room school house first through eighth grade. And so that was really weird to come down here to Florida, and be able to go to a school that had separate rooms for separate grades, and then to be able to go to Sanford Grammar, and be able to go upstairs. That—that just was neat for me. But it was a just a typical day at school. I mean you get there, you do the Pledge of Allegiance, you did class prayers. Then you did your work, you went to lunch, you got to go to P.E. [Physical Education]. Outside, at the playground, was out in front of the school. You crossed the little—there was never a road there, but it was like a street, in front of which is there now. And you would go out—to the front was your playground. Lunchroom was in the back. It was just a wooden building that was built there. We went out and eat lunch out there. I mean just a typical school day. Except for when we got into sixth grade. Yeah. We had—we had to do the maypole [laughs]. That was awful [laughs], I didn’t really care for doing the maypole. You had to dance in—and I was not a small girl. I was on the large side, so skipping in to do the maypole was not my thing [laughs]. And the boy I was with was a little on chunky side too, so we really didn’t make a good pair to go skipping in to do a maypole. But I survived it. That was probably the most horrifying experience I ever had at Sanford Grammar. Other than that, it was pretty good. I didn’t have a problem with going there. Velásquez The maypole was a dance, then? Driskell It was a dance. They had a large pole, and you had ribbons that came out from it. And as you danced around it, you went in and out. I don’t think they do it at all anymore, I don’t know. But you would go in and out, and as you did it you were wrapping the maypole in the way that you folded the ribbons. And it—you had to learn to go in and out at the right time to make the ribbons come out smooth, ’cause if you did it wrong—and Lord knows we did it wrong a lot, because it took forever to get it down smooth—but when you got through you would have a pole that the ribbons would be wound perfectly like weaving, and they would lay just as flat up against that pole as you could. It was beautiful. And it was done to music. And it was beautiful, but it was hard. And it was the worst experience I think I ever did[sic], because I didn’t, I didn’t want to do it. And I couldn’t get out of it but, it was just very hard to do. And once you learned it you know it was easy then, like anything else that you learn today. But it was fun. I mean after it was over with it was fun, but not—not when doing it. Velásquez Okay. So what was a happy part? What was the happiest part of each day in school? Driskell My teachers. Velásquez Yeah? Driskell They, they—I had really some of the best teachers my whole experience in Seminole County. I’ve—one of the few kids—I think that I only had one teacher that I ever remember having a problem with, and that was in later high school. But my teachers—Miss Sharon. She sticks—sticks in my mind more than anybody, because she was so gentle and so easy to come up to and explain things to you and draw the good part of you out. The teachers were wonderful. It was just a very good experience there. Very good experience. Velásquez Do you do you know if Miss Sharon, um… Driskell I don’t know what ever happened to her. Velásquez Okay. Driskell I don’t. I would love to have known what happened to her. She was a beautiful person. Velásquez What kind of things did you do for fun in school? Driskell In school? Velásquez Mm-hmm. Driskell Well, I didn’t do anything to get in trouble. I know that. But we did a lot of art work. We had an art teacher, and we did a lot of art work. And—which that really was the one thing that I did enjoy, because I—later in life, painted pictures and did a lot of crafts and had my own business for a while and crafty partners. And so I—just doing crafts was my—was my—the art classes was my biggest thing that I enjoyed the most. I enjoyed making things. I still do [laughs]. That’s— but, you know, school was school, like any other kid would say. You still had the reading and writing and arithmetic. But they teach it so much different back then than they teach it today, because I can’t understand any of these things that the young people learn—try—they try to teach you today. I mean I’m lost. But we had basic reading, basic math, basic spelling. You know, and it—the teachers went out of their way to make sure that it went in and stayed. And to me, I think that’s lost, and we need to go back to that. To the basics. Velásquez Okay. What are some of your memorable experiences? Driskell The good ones? [laughs]. Velásquez Any. Driskell Oh, honey, I’ve been trying to think of that for days ever since you called me and, you know, it’s—when you go back that far it’s hard to pull up what was some of the good experiences. One thing that I always enjoyed was of course P.E. [physical education] like anybody else. I got out with my friends and got to play. But they had this round—I don’t even know what it was called, —but it was round and you’d jump on it and people would push you, and you know, and you just keep going around, which I dearly loved and I would spend all my P.E. time right there, so long as I could get away with it. But they course—they would make you play baseball and all of this other little games things, you know, but that was my favorite thing. It—when I got outside, I head right for that little—it’s like a tilt-a-whirl [laughs]. But it would just go round and round, and I would just love to sit on that thing and go. And it—it was fun. It was my—my favorite enjoyment. Of course, we had swings and teeter-totters and all these things that, a lot of them were built by parents that put ’em out there. And businesses that would donate to the school. But um, we just had a nice playground and I enjoyed that. ’Course you know your studies are studies so—and you know, enjoyable memories. It’s just hard to remember back that far to remember what you enjoyed. Being with my friends, playin’. Velásquez Speaking of friends, of your friends, do you keep in touch with any? Driskell Yeah, I do. Matter of fact, Bonnie Haskuns Brown is one of my closest friends. She lives in North Florida. I stay in touch with her. ’Course some of my friends have died. I used to be the head of taking care of the class reunions for Seminole High School—my class of ’61 —until I got where I couldn’t take care of that anymore. But yeah I stay in touch with a lot of them. A lot of them on Facebook, a lot of them on e-mail, and some of them just call—just call. But yeah, I stayed in touch with a lot of them. The only person, you know, I would like to know what happened with was Jim Jimenes, and he’s the young man that danced with me on the maypole. I don’t know where he went or what happened to him. But that I would like to know where he went. That would be neat to find out. But yeah. I stay in touch with all of—all of ‘em. Going to school that long with them you kind of develop that bond that you stay together. Especially when you start out 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th—all the way through graduation. I mean, I been out of school 51 years. A long time. Long time. Velásquez So most of these friends you had through Sanford Grammar and beyond? Driskell Yes, yes. I stayed I kept well Bonnie, and I have been friends for 50—54-55 years. And our kids grew up together. It was a lifetime friendship with her. And then I had another friend that passed away, but we stayed together for over 50 years. You—back then you built a relationship and you kept it. Not—not so much like they do today. Not so much like my children. They don’t have contact with the kids they graduated with. But back then, smaller groups—close into town, most of all the kids lived right in town and in Sanford and most of us walked to school. And that was because you see each other walking to school, you see each other walking home, you know you were lived in the close neighborhoods, you had, you developed a deeper friendship than where the kids of today do, where they get on a bus or a car or whatever, and go away. But we spent time going to school together, and going home from school together, so we were together most of our life. So you don’t lose those kind of friends, you keep ‘em. At least I did [laughs].s Velásquez Um, what was your favorite place in the school building? Driskell Favorite place in the school building. . . Velásquez Is there a place that stands out to you? Driskell Yeah. The auditorium always did, and I don’t know why. Um, ’course we did our class programs and stuff like every other school’d do, but it was so big. And I think that was because I had never been in a place that big. I grew up in on the farm and walked to school the one-room school, and this was such a big place to me. I was a little girl it was just chuckles everything about Sanford was big. I came from the country in a little town that probably had about 150 people in it to this big town chuckles to this big school. It was just fascinating to me. I liked the auditorium. Of course I loved the playground. And anybody loved lunch [laughs]. You always looked forward to going to lunch. But the auditorium was my favorite place. I loved going up the stairs. That’s—it’s such a weird thing to think about, you know, going up stairs. I lived in a—I lived in a two-story house on the farm, but it wasn’t big like this. And this was big, and it was fascinating to go upstairs. Stupid, I know, but that’s just the way I feel about it [laughs]. Velásquez So what were the other students like? Driskell Like me. Common. We—there was no—there was no upper class, lower class. All that changed when you got into high school. But when you—when you went to school at the Southside and Sanford Grammar and the middle school they were all—well they were all alike. Nobody had tried to impress anybody. We were just all common, average, peop—kids. ‘Course when you get into high school that’s when their personalities start changing and you start getting little clique groups that hang around together, but the kids at Sanford Grammar we were just a family of kids. We all got along. You rarely ever saw anybody get into some serious trouble. I don’t remember ever seeing anybody of my friends that got into trouble. I never got into trouble, ’cause I always knew the consequences at home. That made you change, watch what you did. But, um, they were just common kids. Just simple. Live simple. We all went to church. We all you know went to school. We all obeyed our parents. We had a great time we used our imagination rather than computers and stuff like they do today. I mean we were just common kids. I don’t know how else to say it. Velásquez What kinds of things were on students minds back then? Driskell Well we didn’t think of anything like the—the kids of today think about, because we didn’t think about politics or—or taxes or any of that kind of stuff we just—I don’t know what you would say we thought about, because I—I really can’t say that it was anything that we thought about other than making sure our homework was done, making sure we did our chores, making sure that we didn’t do anything that ticked our parents off [laughs] or the teachers. But I mean we really didn’t—factor in outside things into our minds at that point in our life. It wasn’t important. It didn’t impact us. We went to school. We did what we were supposed to do. We did—we went home. We did what we were supposed to do, and that’s it. We didn’t nothing impacted us. Velásquez There were no events outside of your normal routine that that affected your life? Driskell That affected my life? Velásquez At the time? Driskell You know, I can’t think of a thing right now. Probably a hundred things would come to me at another point, but right now I can’t think of a thing that impacted or changed my life in any way while I was at Sanford Grammar, because it was just an enjoyable time. I mean there was no—I had no problems in my life that made me have an impact on me. It was just good times. Velásquez And you weren’t aware of anything else outside… Driskell Not outside, no. No. The town was—it was a great town. You could walk to school and not be afraid of anything. You didn’t have to worry about —your parents didn’t worry. On Saturdays, we’d walk to the movie theater and paid nine to ten cents to get in. Paid ten cents for a drink and popcorn. But I mean, you—you could go to school and not have to worry about somebody messing with you or getting you going there. There was no problems at that period of time. You’re talking about the early ‘50s and it was just a beautiful time for children to grow up, and I was lucky to have lived in the time span that I did. I’m grateful. Velásquez You always felt safe? Driskell I did. I always felt safe. And I never—my father’s business was the corner of [South] Sanford [Avenue] and Celery [Avenue]. And I don’t know if you know where that’s at, but it’s— there’s a lot of black neighborhood behind my father’s business. Ninety percent of my father’s business was that. They were very nice to us. We had—Sanford was never known for having that kind of problems—racial problems or anything like that. Sanford was a beautiful, quiet, peaceful. People got along. People respected each other kind of community, and that flowed over into the school system. You had teachers that were respectful that did what they were supposed to was hired to do. They taught the children they made the children feel safe. I mean, it was it was the best time of life to grow up, because you didn’t have what young people have today hanging over your heads. It was just beautiful. I’m—I’m grateful for my years from Southside to Sanford Grammar to middle school to high school. I had the best time of my life and never was afraid anywhere in Sanford. I loved it. I loved school. Other than doing that maypole [laughs]. That was the one thing I didn’t want to do and that teacher was determined I was gonna do it. I learned it. And I don’t regret it, but I wish it was a memory I could click out. Now I loved going to school. I loved going there. I never thought I would be the type person that would—into my adulthood— would go back and work in the school system, but I did and I don’t know if that had—because I had such a good experience going to school from all the schools I went to the teachers that I had if that’s what influenced my life, I don’t know, but I loved working with children. The teachers I had loved working with children. Driskell And Miss Sharon was one that I just—I loved her. She was just so good at what she did. And if she was the one that influenced me, well God bless her, ’cause she did a good job. She did a good job. It was—it was a good experience. I have no complaints about my school years. Velásquez Miss Sharon—did she teach a specific subject? Driskell No. Back then you taught—you learned everything in one room. She taught you math, the reading, everything was taught in one room. The only time that you ever went out anywhere was music or P.E., and I don’t remember us having a P.E. teacher. Miss Sharon was out on the—on the class. I don’t even remember who the other teacher was that I had. Now isn’t that awful? Because she made such an impression on me, I couldn’t get the other one to come into my mind. But we didn’t have all the programs that they had—the teachers—that they had. The one teacher you had that was your homeroom school classroom and that’s where you went. And she taught you everything and she had set up a certain time slots that’s what you went into. And you had a book for every subject. And, we didn’t have the home, you know—we had homework, but not the homework. We didn’t have to lug our books back and forth to school and backpack—you were taught at school and what little you had at home was well you—like making a book I remember making a book at Sanford Grammar about my family and I cut pictures out of magazines and “this is my mom” and “this is my dad.” ‘Course they always looked better than your mom and dad did, ’cause you always tried to find—and when it came to finding one for you, you made sure you had a one that looked good and then all my brothers and sisters and I drew pictures of my house and all this kind of stuff. It’s here somewhere. I don’t know where packed away somewhere. But I mean you always that that’s the kind of homework you had. It wasn’t the kind of homework that that the kids have today. You know, all the math problems and all that stuff, because that was taught in school. And you didn’t do that at home. They—other things—other projects you did at home. Like I did one on Florida and I got a map and I drew— found pictures of alligators and all sorts of weird things, you know, to put into it. But that was the kind of homework you had. It wasn’t regular classwork. What you did in class math reading you did in class. Now you would have a book to read occasionally and book reports due on it, but it was most of the work was done in classroom, not—not at home. Not like not like they do today. Um, I’m glad [laughs]. Velásquez What does it mean to you to be a Sanford Grammar alumnus? Driskell What does it mean to me to be an alumni of Sanford Grammar School? It’s a good thing. It’s a proud thing. It was a good experience that I had there. I’m—I’m glad I went there. It—as I got older, I often wondered you know why they broke our schools up like they did, because now they go—I think it’s K through 5, but here we were broken up. First through—we didn’t have K—first through fourth, fifth and sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth tenth eleventh twelfth at high school. And it was just strange that they would break us up like that why I don’t know. But for me going to Sanford Grammar School was a good experience, because like I said everything was so calm and good. And you were with you were clumped with kids that your mentality was the same—fifth and sixth grade, you know? That was the same age bracket. You stayed within that age bracket group. You weren’t put in—when I went to Sanford Middle School, it was such a change going from sixth grade, which I was still a little girl to suddenly be pulled into junior high school, which they thought they were grown up. Probably I did too, but [laughs] it was different, because they think different. Uh, we were too old for the younger grades. The fourth fir—first through fourth grade, because to us those were babies. I mean we—we—we had—we’re fifth and sixth, we go to Sanford Grammar. We’re older. And then when the when you suddenly get to sixth grade and you have to go to junior high school you’re scared [laughs]. Because it’s it changes again. I think it’s a better way—to go, because they put these children together in schools that their mentality’s not the same. We were too old for these child—children, too young for these children, so we were in a good place. I had a great experience there, because I was comfortable with the group I was with. They were all we all thought alike. We all still wanted to play in our terms of play, and we were still little kids. So it was a good experience for me and I’m glad I got to go to school the way I did. I feel sorry after working in the public schools and seeing how fifth graders are in school today with the younger kids. They’re outta place. I realize money can’t put them where they need to be, but it was better for me, and I think it made my education better to go on like that. Now I’m glad I went to Sanford Grammar. It was a unique experience. Velásquez You mentioned earlier that you went to the school recently to look at how it has changed. What did… Driskell Well, the lunchroom’s gone [laughs], for one. Basic—I hadn’t been in the school maybe one time since I left there, and that’s been years and years and years ago. It was deteriorating bad[sic] when I was there. I went back over with my daughter. I didn’t get to spend as much time as I wanted to with Pam going around the museum. And I understand now it’s open more and I’m looking forward to getting to go, but it the work that they’ve done is remarkable and I hope that it can continue things like this need to be remembered. The children of today need to see that our way of life was not so wrong, that we had it a whole lot better than they do. Now a lot of people wouldn’t agree with that statement. That’s alright. This is my opinion and I’m giving it. I liked the way schools was set up, because I think the children got more one-on-one. I know I did. The school building—I’m proud to see it coming back. I’m proud that they didn’t tear it down and lose it. We’ve lost so much in Sanford. People just are taking history and throwing it away and it’s sad. I—I—as you can tell, I have old pictures and stuff here in the house. I—I like history. And I like the fact that they’re saving history in that building. All of Seminole County School systems are go putting things—excuse me—putting things into that building to be saved. I mean, that’s why I gave my seats to there, because I knew they would be saved. And—and the school system would the kids could go there and learn what it was like—learn what it was like to go to school in a small setting and see how people survived in Central Florida. I haven’t gotten a chance to go through it all the way, but I’m going and I’m looking forward to going and I’m glad they’re doing it and I’m glad to see UCF [University of Central Florida] taking a part in it and I think it’s great what you kids are doing. I’m proud of it. Velásquez Thank you. So you mentioned that you guys never misbehaved, but there must have been times when students misbehaved. Driskell Well, I—I’m sure there was[sic] some that were not as good as me [laughs]. True of that. I can’t honestly think of a time, ’cause course in my day, when I was coming up my father always said to me, “You get to trouble with school, you’re going to get in trouble with me.” My daddy was a big man [laughs] and I did not want to fight him. No way, shape, or form did I want to tussle with my dad. So I was programmed and I had three siblings ahead of me—two brothers older and a sister older than I. My sister went to—didn’t go to school at Sanford Grammar, because when we moved here she was already farther up. But I had seen them get in trouble with Dad and I wasn’t going [laughs]. There was no way I was going to be bad. Now, if there were some other classmates that got in trouble, I’m like the old monkey. I don’t hear it, I don’t see it, I’m not going to speak about it, because I don’t remember it. I really don’t. I was trying to remember the other day who the principal was, and I wish I had a list, because I don’t remember who the principal was. I remember Margaret Mitchell was at Southside, but I don’t remember who was Sanford Grammar. That shows you how much I went to the office. I stayed out of there and I had no reason to get in trouble. I guess I was classified as one of the “good eggs,” because I didn’t—I stayed out of it. I don’t remember anybody getting in trouble. Velásquez So you wouldn’t know what happened when other people misbehaved? Driskell Well, I—probably they—it would be the paddle, because that was part of the little punishment deal then. But I don’t know of anybody that got it, let me put it to you that way. It weren’t[sic] me. But I don’t know anybody that got it. But I know that the paddle was the form of punishment. You know, three. And—but, like I said, it never it never came my way. I stayed out of there. Velásquez What was the most valuable lesson you learned at Sanford Grammar? Driskell Study. And that goes back to Miss Sharon again. ’Cause if you did it right, you were rewarded. It wasn’t nothing but a gold star next to your name, and that meant a lot—that gold star. Simple, little, sticky star you stick and goop. That was it. That was like getting the million dollars, ’cause you knew that you were on the good side of Miss Sharon. But study was the biggest thing. I didn’t like to study. I didn’t like school. That’s why it always amazed me that I would go and work in the school system. I didn’t—I wanted to sit down. I wanted to read a book, because I wanted to read it, not because she was going to tell me I had to read it. And so she made it where I wanted to study, because she give me a reward. She would reward me with nothing more than a pat on the back and tell me how proud she was of me and— or give me that gold star. And as I progressed in school, I spent more time studying. I was never a great student, but I wasn’t a bad student. I kept my grades at a nice, good level. I wasn’t a braniac, but I wasn’t stupid either [laughs]. But she taught me that, and I appreciate her for that, because she made me feel like if you learn this, it’s going to make you better. And she was by far probably the most important teacher that ever touched my life, because she made me feel important. She made me feel like when I went to school, I was doing something right. And if—she just—she just hung with me for the rest of my life. I mean I appreciate what she made me learn, because it made high school, junior high school, everything easier, because she showed me how to study, and that’s the best thing I got out of the whole school system is she showed me how to make take it and apply it and that was what was important to me after I left. She was a remarkable teacher. Remarkable. Velásquez Um, are there any other activities that you participated in that you remember? Driskell We had our class programs that we did in the auditorium. Um, which you always felt so good doing it. But I mean, you know, we had little do—little plays and little things like that, but the only real thing that stuck into my head is that maypole [laughs]. I mean the other things were just common, everyday things that you would do. Like you would have a Christmas program for your parents, and they would come and see you perform, and you would have the little things there at the end of the year that you know you would be given an award for what you’d done in school. You know. Things like that. But it they were just the common, everyday things that you did back then. Ever—parents were involved more in coming to see the children doing things in the school. But that may—maypole—that was everybody—that was the whole community. I mean they there was a lot of— I remember lots of people there and I don’t remember exactly why there was so many at that particular program. It was all set up on that street out front of where the school is now and there were people, lots and lots and lots and lots of people. And I, eh—it was more like a community thing rather than a school activity. I don’t know what it was exactly, but I danced it [laughs]. And there was a lot of people there. And, and—but you know other than the regular programs—no. We all did the things that we were told to do and enjoyed them and never thought about ever having to go to history like this, so no. I can’t think of anything else other than what we did normally. Velásquez Okay, well thank you. That’s all I have. Is there anything else you’d like to add? Driskell I can’t think of anything that is profound in my mind that—other than the fact that I enjoyed I enjoyed Sanford and I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the teachers. I am so grateful that my father moved us from Kansas and a farm to bring us to Sanford and to have the experience that I’ve had living in Sanford and going to school in Sanford and being a I don’t classify myself as being nothing but a Southern girl. I mean, I got sand all the way up past my knees. I’m here and I’m a Southern girl and I’m proud of it. And I went to school in Seminole County. And I—I’m proud of everything about that area. I have nothing to add. [inaudible] I have nothing to say. I’m just lucky. Thank you. Velásquez Thank you very much, Sharon. Driskell You’re welcome, dear. 7th Street Brown, Bonnie Haskuns Celery Avenue Driskell, Sharon Karraker education elementary school grammar school Haskuns, Bonnie high school Idlewild Jimenez, Jim Karraker, Sharon Keith Elementary School Lake High School maypole McRory's Dime Store middle school Mitchell, Margaret museum oral history PHC Public History Center Sanford Sanford Avenue Sanford Grammar School Sanford High School Sanford Middle School school Seminole High School Seventh Street Student Museum and Center for the Social Studies UCF University of Central Florida Velásquez, Daniel Westside Grammar Elementary School Winter Springs https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/99f982aa4276b0be0b4f9b69c9e7085a.pdf 3533161dc69dab00593f352cd8d77806 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection Description As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress. Contributor <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida Alternative Title CVHP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida United States. Army Army United States. Navy Navy United States. Air Force Air Force United States. Marine Corps Marine Corps Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Jacksonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Honolulu, Hawaii Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Great Lakes, Illinois Long Island, New York Newport, Rhode Island Norfolk, Virginia Germany Qaasuitsup, Greenland Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland Azores Islands, Portugal Mediterranean Sea Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer McKinney, Roy Interviewee Ekern, Sharon Location Orlando, Florida Original Format 1 Digital (DAT) audio/video recording Duration 20 minutes and 14 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 64kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Sharon L. Ekern Alternative Title Oral History, Ekern Subject Veterans--Florida Marine Corps Description An oral history interview of Sharon Ekern, who served in the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida (UCF) with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. This interview was conducted by Roy McKinney at UCF on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include Ekern's family life, her education, enlistment in the Marines, boot camp, advanced training, her first duty station, the San Diego Recruit Depot, Parris Island, the Cold War, being assigned to Orlando, serving as a female Marine, the Tailhook Scandal, Camp Smith, her awards and medals, life after service, her employment at UCF, and being an expert markswoman. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:40 Family life 0:01:05 Family in the Military 0:01:19 Education before joining the Marine Corps 0:01:45 Reason for enlistment in the Marines 0:02:30 Family reaction to enlistment 0:02:49 Boot camp 0:03:42 View of instructors - then and now 0:04:26 Most memorable experience in boot camp 0:04:59 Being a woman in boot camp 0:05:20 Advanced training 0:06:01 First duty station 0:06:24 Role at first duty station 0:06:37 Typical day at first duty station 0:07:20 Life at San Diego Recruit Depot 0:08:00 How Parris Island compared to San Diego 0:08:20 Cold War's effect on Military life 0:08:59 Entertainment in the Military 0:09:55 Assignment in Orlando 0:11:10 Being a woman in the Marine Corps/ "Tailhook" 0:12:55 Memorable moments at Camp Smith 0:14:07 Leaving the Military 0:14:58 Reason for leaving the Marines rather than applying to Officer Program 0:15:31 Highest rank in the Marines 0:15:51 Awards and medals 0:16:33 Life after the Marines 0:17:04 Joining UCF 0:17:04 Contracting and purchasing 0:17:50 Contact with Marines 0:18:06 Military influence on life 0:18:37 Utilizing military experience with UCF 0:19:15 Expert marksmanship Abstract Oral history interview of Sharon Ekern. Interview conducted by Roy McKinney in Orlando, Florida. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 20-minute and 14-second oral history: <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Interviewed by Roy McKinney. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Albany, Georgia Camp H. M. Smith, Aiea, Hawaii Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, North Carolina Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, San Diego, California Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, Port Royal, South Carolina University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Creator Ekern, Sharon L. McKinney, Roy Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-11-13 Date Copyrighted 2014-11-13 Format application/pdf Extent 599 MB 164 KB Medium 20-minute and 14-second Digital (DAT) audio/video recording 13-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Roy McKinney and Sharon L. Ekern and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Pawelczyk, J. 2014. "<a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5611524379" target="_blank">Constructing American Female War Veterans' Military Identity in the Context of Interviews</a>." Women and Language: WL. 37, no. 1: 87-112. Chema, J. Richard. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/227212744" target="_blank">Arresting Tailhook The Prosecution of Sexual Harassment in the Military</a>. Thesis (LL. M.)--Judge Advocate General's School, United States Army, 1993, 1993. Browne, Kingsley R. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795374552" target="_blank">Military Sex Scandals from Tailhook to the Present: The Cure Can Be Worse than the Disease</a>. Duke Journal of Gender Law & Policy. Duke University School of Law, 2007. Biank, Tanya. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/795168521" target="_blank">Undaunted: The Real Story of America's Servicewomen in Today's Military</a>. New York, N.Y.: NAL Caliber, 2013. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://stars.library.ucf.edu/veteransoralhistories/324/" target="_blank">Ekern, Sharon L.</a> Transcript McKinney Today is the 13th of November, 2014. My name is Roy McKinney and we are interviewing Dr. Sharon [L.] Ekern. She served in the United States Marine Corps from 1981 to1990 and now works at the University of Central Florida with the Student Development and Enrollment Service. I am interviewing Dr. Sharon Ekern as part of the University of Central Florida’s Community Veterans History Project. This interview is being conducted in Orlando, Florida. McKinney Where and when were you born? Ekern Union, South Carolina. September 18th, 1962. McKinney What did you parents do for a living? Ekern My dad retired from AT&T, and my mom, um, who has been passed away for—gosh—uh, 28 years today, as a matter of fact. She worked for the attorney general of South Carolina. McKinney How big was your family growing up? Ekern It was my parents and two sisters. McKinney Were any of your family members in the Military? Ekern Yes. Um, my stepfather was full time National Guard. My uncle is a retired Navy captain, and I have a couple other uncles who served in the Air Force and Navy. McKinney What type of education did you have before entering the Marine Corps? Ekern Uh, I went to a small, um, junior college, right out of high school, and was there for two semesters. So I had basically one year of college. McKinney Was there any focus of your studies while there? Ekern No, not really. McKinney Uh, why did you decide to enlist in the Marines? Ekern Uh, I had decided during that second semester that I wasn’t ready for college at that time, and I had moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where my grandparents had retired, and there was an Air Force Base there. Uh, so I had met some Air Force friends and decided at that point that I would join the Air Force. And then when I went to MEPs [United States Military Entrance Processing Command] to do my processing, they couldn’t take me until like maybe the following year. It was maybe nine months, and I wanted to leave in the fall when my friends would be going back to school. So, um, I basically—when I got—when I was there at MEPs, I told them to take me to see the Marines. That—I didn’t want to go in the Army. I didn’t like the uniform that the Navy wore. So... McKinney How did your family relac—react to you enlisting? Ekern Eh, well, they had just got used to the idea of me joining the Air Force, so when I came home and told them I was going in to the Marines, Um, it took a little while, especially for my mother and grandmother to get used to that idea. McKinney And where did you go to boot camp? Ekern Parris Island, South Carolina. McKinney How did you feel when you entered boot camp and the whole process of going through—just getting there and your first reactions? Ekern I was scared to death. Um, my processing station MEPs was in Colombia, South Carolina. And it wasn’t that—maybe two hours or so. We shipped out on a bus to Parris Island, and I was the only female on the bus. and, um, the person at MEPs had, um, gi—given my package to somebody, uh—to one of the guys that was also, uh, sh—shipping out that day, and he got off the bus with my information with this drill instructor just, you know—he came on the bus and was yelling at them get on the yellow footprints. And then I had to get off the bus and go—and go tell him, you know, that somebody had my package. So I was scared to death. McKinney How did you feel about you instructors? Ekern Um, how I felt about them now and how I felt about them then is probably different. Um… McKinney How about both? Ekern Yeah. I was—they kind of played different roles. There was one who was more like the motherly type, and one who was just downright mean, and the other one, who was kind of in between. Um, I was really scared of the one that was just mean, you know? I—I’ve actually been in contact recently with our senior drill instructor on Facebook, so it has been kind of nice, um, you know, touching base with her again. She retired—gosh—after—I don’t know—maybe 25 years in the Marine Corps, there at Parris Island. So… McKinney So what was your most memorable experience at boot camp? Ekern At boot camp? Gosh. Um, probably the physical training. I, you know—I’ve always been, um—well, probably, more so since. I’ve gotten out. I’ve been athletic, but I don’t know that I was totally prepared when I went in, so that was difficult—the ph—the physical training. So that was probably one of my more memorable. McKinney How did being a woman affect you in boot camp? Ekern Well, in the Marines, we’re totally separate. I know in some of the, um—maybe all of the other branches—they train together, but we don’t. We’re a separate battalion and, uh, we have no contact with the men. So we were all just together. McKinney Did you receive any advanced training? Ekern Yeah. I went to several schools. Um, I went to a school right out of boot camp in Albany, Georgia. Um, then I went to my first duty station in San Diego. And, I believe, it was after—yeah. It was—it was after I—no. Maybe it wasn’t San Diego—where I went to another, um, supply school at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And then after I came to Orlando, I went into the contracting and purchasing field and went to several schools. They were at Lowry Air Force Base, because, at the time, the Marines didn’t have a contracting school so we went to the Air—Air Force schools. McKinney So where were you stationed after you were done with training? Ekern My first duty station was the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. And then, from there I came here to Orlando to the, uh, recruiting headquarters. I was not a recruiter. I did supply, but I—I was at headquarters. And then from there, I went to Camp [H. M.] Smith in [Aiea,] Hawaii. McKinney What was your assignment or job while you were there? Ekern Uh, I started out in supply and, like I said at some point, uh, in my career, I changed to contracts and purchasing. McKinney And, uh, what was a typical day like for you? Ekern We usually got—usually PT [physical training] was, you know, the first thing we did at least three days a week, if not more. Um, you know, we’d have—PT was around six A.M. and then have to be at work at 7:30. Most days were like typical work day. You know, you went to work, you had your lunch—you know, you got off at a certain time. There were other days when there might be inspections or parades or, you know, other things that might be going on. But ordinarily it was like a typical work day. McKinney Can you describe what it was like working at the Marine—Marine Corps Recruitment Depot at Parris Island? Ekern Well, I didn’t work there. That’s where—that’s where I received recruit training. McKinney Okay. Can you describe what it was like working at San Dieg—the depot in San Diego? Ekern Yeah. It was—I mean—San Diego, of course, is beautiful. And, um, it was good. Um, out there they only trained male Marines. They don’t—they don’t train any women Marines out there, but, um, it was, uh—I think it was a—you know, it was a good first duty station, uh, working with all of the recruits and, um, doing the different, you know, jobs that were assigned to me at the time. And then I worked for a colonel, just in his office, for a good bit of my time there. McKinney How did the environments of Parris Island and San Diego compare? Ekern Um, well, I mean—it was two totally different experiences. At Parris Island, I was a recruit, you know. I was going through recruit training and at MCRD [Marine Corps Recruit Depot]. I was—I was basically working there. I was a Marine at that point. So totally different experiences. McKinney How did the Cold War affect everyday life in the Military? Ekern Um, hmm. I would say, at least for me and my job, um, you know, it di—didn’t have a big effect. We basically did what we were, you know, assigned to do at, um—at the recruit depot. It was training Marines at the, uh, MCRD—I mean, at, um, the recruiting headquarters here, it was enlisting Marines. So, um, in my everyday job, I wouldn’t say it had a big effect. McKinney How would you entertain yourselves, uh, during your service? Ekern Well, um, hmm. Let me think back on that. Uh, like I said, it was—since I wasn’t a—a grunt, per se, you know, um, I left and I went home most days, unless there was something special going on, or we were out in the field, or had some special training. So, you know, I think we did pretty much what everybody would do. When I was in, um—here at the recruit station, I had a child. So, you know, I had a family just like most people and I did live in base housing. So it was—it’s a different community, Um—a different culture. But I would say we did what most people would do. McKinney Why were you assigned to the recruitment headquarters in Orlando? Ekern I’m not exactly sure. Uh—we have what’s called a “monitor” in the Marines, and they decide where you’re going to be—be stationed. And, um, they just decide based on when it’s time for you to depart a duty station and what the needs are. Um, you can put in for several different things, um—several different duty stations. And this was just one that I had, you know, put in for that needed a supply person at the time. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, be stationed here. McKinney Where else did you, um, apply for a duty station at? Ekern Gosh, you know, I really don’t remember. Um, I know one of them was in Georgia, because I’m in South Carolina. And I can’t recall now where—oh, Macon, Georgia, I believe it was, because it had a recruiting headquarters there. Um, I thought it’d be nice to be somewhat close to home. Um, but besides that, I really don’t recall. McKinney Were you excited when you were assigned to Orlando? Or how did—how did you feel about the… Ekern Yeah. I was excited. Um, I was excited about the job. I mean it is a bit different being in a recruiting headquarters with maybe 15 Marines ver—versus being on a base full of Marines. Uh, so it was going to be something different. And yeah. I was excited about coming to Florida. McKinney What was it like being a woman in the Marine Corps? Ekern Um, hmm [laughs]. It could be different at times. Um, the period that I was in was before Tailhook [Scandal]—if you’ve ever even heard of “Tailhook.” No? McKinney No. Ekern It was a big sexual harassment scandal, uh, that occurred soon after I got out of the Marine Corps. But when I was in, um, basically, sexual harassment—it was—it wasn’t something that you heard about. So—and women at that time, um, depending on where you were and who you worked with—most men—I won’t say most. Some men made it very clear that didn’t think women should be in their Marine Corps. And so it was—it could be difficult at times. I feel like you always had to, um, you know—you had to be the one to give 110 percent, you know, if you were out on runs or just in your everyday job just to prove yourself. McKinney Was there any time that you felt that you had to prove yourself to someone that was—that looked down on you as a woman in the Marine Corps? Ekern Oh, yeah. Yeah. McKinney Is there any—any example that you can—you can tell us? Ekern Um, hmm. I don’t know that I can think of just something—like a particular example. It was more the comments—the everyday comments. Um, it was the things—when we did have to go out on marches or runs, and there were women who couldn’t keep up and, you know, there were women who made up excuses. And, you know, that—I think that made it harder for the rest of us, but… McKinney Are there any specific events during your service that stand out in your memory? Ekern Events such as? McKinney Um, anything. Um, s—something that you enjoyed, or something that you didn’t enjoy, or just something that sticks out in your memory? Ekern Yeah. At Camp Smith—Camp Smith is built on like the side of a big—I guess you’d call it a mountain. Um, so everything we did was either going up or going down. So anytime we PT’d, we were either running up or we were running down. And we would go on like these marches with, you know, the packs and the Kevlar helmets. And along the side of this mountain—and you’d look down and there wouldn’t be much over there. So that has always stuck out in my mind a lot. But it was also beautiful there, which, um—I mean, I will definitely have to say I really enjoyed probably being in Hawaii the most, where we were at Camp Smith. Um, with it being on the side of a mountain, you know, we’d look out one side of where we worked and you’d see, um, Diamond Head and look out the other side and there was Pearl Harbor. I mean, it was—it was just a beautiful place to be. McKinney And when did you leave the Military? Ekern 1990. McKinney What was your last day like in the Marine Corps? Ekern Sad. Yeah. Really sad. Um, you know, it—even though it was my choice to leave, uh, I had just kind of come to a point where I had to decide. I had finished my bachelor degree and I had to decide if I wanted to, um, try to get into an officer program or, you know, or to get out. And I had made that decision at that point to get out. And, uh, even though I had, you know—it was still difficult to do. You know, I had done this for nine years, and I really, um—I really liked what I did. I felt proud of what I did and I still do. So it was hard going from that to the unknown, you know. McKinney What motivated you to decide to leave the Marines and not go into an officer program? Ekern Well, an officer program isn’t a guarantee. So if I had signed another enlistment, you know, for three to four years, there’s no guarantee that I would have gotten an officer program. And at the time, I had a three year old son, um, and was a single parent. So that had a lot to do with it. Um, [Operation] Desert Storm<a title="">[1]</a> was right on the horizon. That started like three months after I got out. So at that point, I did feel like I had, you know, made the right decision. But… McKinney What was the—your highest rank, uh, at the time you left the Marines? Ekern I was an E[nlisted Rank]-5 Sergeant, but I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee. Meaning: I had been selected for the next rank. Um, but you just have to wait for a certain date. Um, so I was a Staff Sergeant Selectee. McKinney Were you awarded any, uh—any awards or medals or citations? Ekern Yeah. There were several things, like good conduct medals, national, uh—no. meritorious, um—oh gosh. I had it on my, um, commendation medals, meritorious. Uh, can I look at my DD [Form] 214 [Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty]? I’ve got it with me. McKinney Yeah. Ekern ‘Cause I thought I might not remember something [laughs]. Let’s see. Meritorious unit commendations, um, certificate of commendations, good conduct medals, meritorious mast, certificate of appreciations, letter of commendations and recognition. So those kinds of things. McKinney What did you do after you left the Marines? Ekern Uh, I decided to come back here to Orlando. Um, I didn’t have a job, at the time, lined up, but, um, I had real—I liked Orlando when I was here, uh—when I had been stationed here. And Orlando was sort of close enough to home, but not, you know, too close. So, uh—and I still had some friends here. So I decided to come back to Orlando. I had a job. I had a civilian job, um, for about six months before I started work here at UCF [University of Central Florida]. McKinney How did you come—how did you come—become involved with UCF? Ekern Well, when I—I—like I had said, I was a contract—I did contracts and purchasing when I was in the Marines. And, um, the job opening here was for the assistant director of purchasing. So I had applied for that and got that job. So that was my—my first position here. So my training in the Marine Corps had, you know, a direct effect on what I do now. McKinney I know this is kind of late but what does contracting and purchasing entail? Ekern Um, basically we purchased anything that, you know, was needed there on the base. So, it’s—yeah. McKinney Is there anyone you still keep in contact with from the Marines? Ekern Mmhmm. Mostly on Facebook. So that’s been a—yeah—a good way to connect with people. And then, um, I went to my first Marine Corps ball in like 25 years this past weekend. So that was—that was really nice. Brought back a lot of good memories. McKinney Do you feel your Military experience changed you? Ekern Oh, yes. Definitely. Yeah. Um, like I—like I said, it’s—it’s such a different culture. It’s—it’s even hard to explain, you know? It’s—it’s like I had a 100,000 big brothers and they could pick on me, but nobody else could. And, you know, the—the skills and the leadership, and the, um—they’re just all things that I don’t think I could have learned anywhere else. McKinney Did you find it easy incorporating that into—your Military experience into your career here at UCF? Ekern I think it was difficult in the beginning, because the Military is very, you know, black and white. Um, and coming here wasn’t exactly that way. So, even in purchasing, now there are a lot of rules and regulations, uh, in the field of purchasing with the State [of Florida]. It’s still very different than, um, being in the Military. But I think my work ethic, my discipline, um, you know, leadership—I think all of those skills were definitely transferable to what I do here. McKinney Is there anything else you would like to talk about with us today? Ekern Hmm. I can’t really think of anything at this time. McKinney I noticed that you had, uh—you were an expert marks[wo]man in the M16-A1… Ekern Yeah. Yeah. McKinney How was, uh—do you still shoot? Ekern No. I don’t. I did it with my son a couple of times, but it’s been awhile. Um, as a matter of fact, when I first went into the Marine Corps, women did not even qualify with the rifle, which they all do now. But, um—so, in San Diego, that was the first time I’d had to do rifle qualifications, and I was actually second on the—on the, uh—uh, at the range that week. So… McKinney Yeah. I noticed it said you were “expert marksman.” That’s very impressive. Ekern Yeah. Yeah. Expert with the rifle. Only a marksmen with the, uh, pistol. But yeah, I was a good shot [laughs]. McKinney I’d like to thank you for joining us here today, for helping us out with the Community, uh, Veterans [History] Project and thank you for your service. Ekern You’re welcome. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> First Persian Gulf War. </div> </div> A1 advanced training Albany, Georgia assistant director of purchasing basic training boot campRemoves Camp H. M. Smith Camp Lejeune cold war Columbia, South Carolina Community Veterans History Project contracting and purchasing CVHP Denver, Colorado Desert Storm E-5 Ekern, Sharon L. Enlisted Rank 5 expert marksman expert marksmen First Persian Gulf War Hawaii Jacksonville, North Carolina Lowry AFB Lowry Air Force Base M16 Marine Corps Ball Marine Corps Recruit Depot Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego marines McKinney, Roy MCRD MCRD Parris Island MCRD San Diego MEPs Military Entrance Processing Command Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Operation Desert Storm orlando Parris Island, South Carolina physical training PT Roy McKinney San Diego, California Seargant servicewoman sexual harassment sexual misconduct Sharon L. Ekern Staff Sergeant Selectee Student Development and Enrollment Service Tailhook Scandal U.S. Air Force U.S. Marine Corps UCF University of Central Florida USAF USMC veteran veterans woman women https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/2bca9f886cd7f48ed94fe8e02c1e5686.pdf 01843f1fd8a2b1c52a97b9fce648a676 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection Subject Museums--Florida Schools Elementary schools Grammar schools Sanford (Fla.) Description The Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection encompasses a broad range of materials and items ranging from the late 19th Century into the present. The collection includes artifacts, photographs, documents, videocassettes, and other historical records pertaining to the history of the Sanford Grammar School, the Sanford community through the years, and the history of teaching and learning within the United States from the 19th century to the 2010s. The Student Museum has collaborated with the University of Central Florida and established the UCF Public History Center (PHC). All of the Student Museum's collections are presently housed at the PHC. The goal of the PHC is to promote access to history through ground-breaking research connecting local to global, provide cutting-edge hands-on educational programs for students and visitors, and to engage the community in contributing to and learning from history. Contributor Student Museum UCF Public History Center Language eng Type Collection Coverage Sanford High School, Sanford, Florida Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project Student Museum UCF Public History Center Curator Marra, Katie Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Public History Center/Student Museum External Reference "Public History Center." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Student Museum." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. Alternative Title Student Museum and PHC Collection Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/32" target="_blank">General Photographic Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/73" target="_blank">Seminole County Public Schools Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Glasshoff, Jesse Interviewee Muse, Shirley Location UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 DVD/DAT recording Duration 23 minutes and 33 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 141kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Shirley Muse Alternative Title Oral History, Muse Subject Oral history--United States Sanford (Fla.) Museums--Florida Archives--Florida--Administration Archivists--United States University of Central Florida. Department of History Sanford, Henry Shelton, 1823-1891 Description Oral history interview of Shirley Muse, collection cataloger for the UCF Public History Center, located at 301 West Seventh Street in Sanford, Florida. Muse was born in Corvallis, Oregon, on May 16, 1936. She was raised in the Panama Canal Zone. In 1958, Muse married her husband while attending Florida State University in Tallahassee. She received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Library Science that same year. She worked in the Florida Public School System as a Librarian/Media Specialist for 20 years until 1999. Following her retirement, Muse began volunteering at the Student Museum and Center for Social Studies. This interview was conducted by Jesse Glasshoff at the UCF Public History Center on October 12, 2012. Table Of Contents 00:00 Introduction 0:00:48 Student Museum Collections Manager 0:02:47 Museum visitors 0:03:50 How the museum has changed over time 0:06:23 Exhibits 0:12:29 How the museum has impacted visitors 0:15:23 How the community has impacted the museum 0:16:34 How the museum has impacted Muse’s life 0:19:14 Most memorable visitor 0:20:54 History Harvest and future projects 0:23:00 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Shirley Muse. Interview conducted by Jesse Glasshoff at the UCF Public History Center, in Sanford, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Muse, Shirley. Interviewed by Jesse Glasshoff. UCF Public History Center. October 12, 2012. Audio/video record available. UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a>. <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida. Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 23-minute and 33-second oral history: Muse, Shirley. Interviewed by Jesse Glasshoff. UCF Public History Center. October 12, 2012. Audio/video record available. UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida. Coverage Student Museum and Center for the Social Studies,Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Creator Glasshoff, Jesse Muse, Shirley Date Created 2012-10-12 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 99.9 MB 161 KB Medium 23-minute and 33-second DVD/DAT recording 9 page typed transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jesse Glasshoff and owned by UCF Public History Center. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the UCF Public History Center and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project UCF Public History Center Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository UCF Public History Center/Student Museum External Reference "Public History Center." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Exhibits." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. "Student Museum." Seminole County Public Schools. "<a href="http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/" target="_blank">Seminole High School</a>." Seminole High School, Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/JOXJPIjHHPU" target="_blank">Oral History of Shirley Muse</a> Transcript Shirley Muse Interviewed by Jesse Glasshoff October 12, 2012 Glasshoff Okay, we’re on. So—let’s see. Today’s date is October 12th, 2012, and it is 10 AM and we’re here at the [UCF] Public History Center in Sanford, Florida—formerly the Student Museum. Uh, my name is Jesse Glasshoff. I’m a graduate student at the University of Central Florida, and I’m interviewing Shirley Muse. Do you want to introduce yourself, Shirley? Muse Good morning. I’m Shirley Muse. I’m the collections person in charge of the collection, and I’ve been here for 13 years—almost 14—and loved every minute of it. Glasshoff All right. Well, we’ll go ahead and jump right into these questions. So how did you—how’d come to be working at the museum? Muse Well, Serena [Rankin Parks] Fisher, who was the director of the museum in 1999, um, asked me if I wanted to volunteer, ‘cause we were both media specialists together, and I worked at Sanford Middle School, and I knew a lot of the old timers here and their children, and I’ve enjoyed it very much, because I could follow it up over here and see pictures of the grandparents and etcetera [laughs]. Glasshoff So what—what has been your involvement in the museum? You said you’re the Collections Manager right now. Uh… Muse I have been doing all the numbering of the pictures, cleaning the glass, putting them back with new labels, trying to make the print larger so that older people can read it without having to get right up to it, and then if they want a copy of it, they’ll tell me, or if they can identify someone in the picture that is not identified, then they will get in touch with me, make a note, and take the number down, then we go get the picture, and then I take it apart and put in the identity of that person that we didn’t have, and it helps a lot, and they’ve identified family members, and they’ve identified classmates from way back when, and it is really very, very satisfying to do. Glasshoff Now, is that—is this the same job you’ve always had here? Muse Yes. Glasshoff Or have you done… Muse I have done only that, because I was the only one that[sic] knew about cataloging, because I’m a retired media specialist. So it’s all gone into the computer and we are getting there… Glasshoff [laughs]. Muse Eventually, to the end, I hope. Glasshoff [laughs] Okay. Well, it sounds like a pretty big task, and it sounds like you’re the right person for it. Muse I love it. I love it. Glasshoff I think everyone else agrees, because you’re the person doing it. Muse [laughs]. Glasshoff Uh, so what—what kind of people—since you’ve been here, what kind of people do you see visiting the museum? Muse Well, we have visitors to the area, especially those that may be putting their car on AMTRAK to send back up north, or to pick up their car from the trains, and then they come into town and want something to do, and we are listed, I believe, at the [Historic Sanford] Welcome Center, and also maybe at the Amtrak Station. Then we have the old-timers that want to come back and look at the pictures and think about the old days, and then we have students. Glasshoff Okay. Muse So we have quite a… Glasshoff So tell me a little bit about the students. Muse The students—we have mainly K[indergarten] through—well, we mainly have fourth- graders, ‘cause we are with the fourth-grade curriculum. Glasshoff Uh huh. Muse And we teach to that, but then we have a lot of other students that[sic] come in for the events that we have, and they like to look at the pictures that go into the rooms and peruse what we have on display. Glasshoff So—since you’ve been here for quite a while—you have been volunteering for quite a while… Muse Uh huh. Glasshoff What would you think—what would you say has changed in the museum since you’ve been with them? Muse Well, for many years there wasn’t much change, but now that we have UCF [University of Central Florida] as a partner, things are changing for the better, and they are just doing a tremendous job, and I can see that it will go on and prosper and, I think just get better and better, and we are changing things now that we didn’t have the people to do it before, ‘cause there was only like a handful of us volunteers—maybe five or six that worked in the building, teaching the classes, and all of that, but I was the only one doing the cataloging, but then there were the gardeners, and they strictly stayed out in the Pioneer Gardens. So it’s been so many more people helping now, and we can see a real difference taking place now. Glasshoff Okay, what was it like when you first got here? Muse It was very quiet. We didn’t have many visitors. Well, we first had quite a few visitors for a while, but then when fourth grade would come, we were not allowed to have visitors at the same time, because we couldn’t have them intermingle with the students at that time, and that was, uh, school law to keep the children from wandering off or talking to strangers and everything, and we had to always abide by that. Glasshoff So… Muse Yeah. Glasshoff Just to make sure I’ve got it clear: when you first started, fourth-graders weren’t coming in, and then, shortly thereafter, they were? Muse No, they’d been coming in for years. Glasshoff Oh, they were? Muse Yeah, I misstated that. Glasshoff Oh, okay. Muse Yeah, yeah. Glasshoff That’s all right. I misunderstood you. Muse Yeah, but they’d been coming—that’s the main thing—the main that, uh, we did. Glasshoff Yeah. Muse Was with them, but then as soon as they left, it was open to the public, but then when the economy went down, we had to close down, and only had three days, we had to cut if off early, uh, so… Glasshoff Okay, when was that? Muse That was I think about three or four years ago. We had to start closing at 3, which didn’t give you much time, ‘cause the children were here until 1:30, and that was only an hour and a half, and a lot of people would have liked to come in, but we couldn’t allow them to come in until 1:30, but many-a-times—I will say—the director stayed until 4 and 4:30 on their[sic] own, to let those people go through and give them a tour. So I—I had to hand it to them. Glasshoff [inaudible].So kind of in line with that, who do you—who would you say the exhibits are targeted towards? What are the goals of the exhibits? Muse I—I think most of the goals of the exhibits are the fourth-grade curriculum, and the geography of Florida is included in that, and the history of the Native American, and also the pioneers—the early people that settled Florida, and—and that[sic] was[sic] the main ones, and that fit into the curriculum at that time, and I think now it’s been broadened more, since we have other people coming in, and we’ve got new ideas, which we needed, and I think we also have welcomed it, because you get a little stagnant if you don’t have new blood brought in, and I think that’s been very good. Glasshoff And it, eh—so would you say since you’ve been here, the exhibits have generally been the same? Muse They have generally been the same. There’s[sic] only been a few small changes when we got something that was really pertinent to that room, then we set up a little bit of a—a new part to that room, but that didn’t happen too often, because we weren’t really on the map that well. We didn’t get the publicity that we’ve gotten now. Glasshoff Can you give me an example? You said that every now and then, maybe one little part would change? Muse Well, um, they were talking about, um, fossils, and one of our, um, gardeners was very interested in fossils and came from a part—a place in Georgia that they’d a lot of them. So when he went up there, he brought back a whole lot of them, and then they put this sand box in and then they put the fossils into the sand so the kids could take little rakes and find them, like they would out in the desert, you know, when looking for things. So that was a new one that was nice at that time, and I can’t tell you exactly when it was. Glasshoff That’s okay. Muse [laughs]. Glasshoff That's why we write things down [laughs]. Muse [laughs]. Glasshoff So what do you think they’re meant to teach, uh—these exhibits? What—they’re directed towards the students? Muse Well, the Pioneer [Exhibit: Before the Settlement of Sanford] room showed how they lived, and how big of space—because we have a small, pioneer, log cabin. We have the cooking utensils that they used at that time in there. We have, uh, like, um, the—the pots that they used on the fire. We have, um, certain clothing. We have an old, pioneer-time nightgown that was actually donated, uh, just about—oh, about a year ago. The lady had two of them, and they’re really tattered and torn, but we washed them, and we hung them up in—one in there to show that they wore a long-sleeved, uh, long nightgowns and long to the floor, you know, and then they, uh—we put one also into the, uh, Grandma’s Attic. Yeah, so it was very neat, because the kids didn’t ever think about what they would sleep in [laughs]. Glasshoff Right[?]. Muse But it—it was fun, and the kids got a big kick out of it. Yeah, and if they just learn a few things, you know, and then they go home and tell their parents. Usually, they come back with their parents and their sisters and brothers to see it on their own. Glasshoff Yeah. Muse It’s nice, yeah. Glasshoff Well, what, uh—through all the exhibits you’ve seen—and you’ve seen all of them really, since you’ve been here—which exhibit was your favorite? Muse My favorite was Grandma’s Attic. Glasshoff Grandma’s Attic? Muse ‘Cause I had a grandma that[sic] had an attic like that. Glasshoff What was it like? Muse Well, the Grandma’s Attic—it used to have wallpaper, but they’ve since taken that down, and they’d pictures on the wall, but they were crooked, just like they would be if Grandma had put them up there to store them, and they got crooked. Grandma didn’t go up there to clean it. They just let them hang, and they were just out of the way, and then there was[sic] toys in the attic, and you would know which ones were yours to play with, and they saw that, and then they showed, uh, cooking utensils that Grandma used in the kitchen area, at that time. They had, uh, the irons that you used to heat on the big, uh, stoves that had coal in it or wood-burning stoves, and then they have the iron that they would have to put the coals in the iron and do it, and, uh, they had a coffee grinder there. They ground the coffee to let the children see that. They made candles also, so the kids could see how to make the candles, and everybody got a turn to dip it, but we had to be careful of that—and you might get burnt. So we had to take that out, much to our discouragement, but sometimes you’ve to do that for safety problems. Yeah, but it—it was just fascinating, because there were instruments that were hung from the ceiling on wires, just to keep them out of the way, you know, ‘cause Grandma stored all of that stuff up in the attic, you know, but it—it looked like a real grandma’s attic. Yeah, and everybody—I think the majority of people liked that one. It brought back a lot of memories. You had the old-fashioned toys—the ones that were made of iron and they were very heavy, but the kids still played with them, you know, but, uh, we had a little bit of everything, and we always let them play with the toys. We had, um, the old, um, wood toys that you could—I forget what they were—but they had this—pieces of wood—it was called something. I cannot remember what it was, but you always had to get it back together and it clicked. It was really neat, and the kids had never seen something like that. I should have brought one with me. Yeah, but I didn’t think about it. Yeah. Glasshoff [inaudible].Thinking about the exhibits and the changes through time, which parts of the museum do you think had the most impact on the children that have visited—the K through 12[th grade] children? Muse I think the Geography [Lab: Where in the World Are We?] room, because the map of Florida is large enough they can walk on, and then they have to learn the names of the cities and where they’re located, and then they have kind of like tops—there's holes driven in the actual map, and you have to take the top that has the name written on it. Pensacola—they learned that it went up in the panhandle. Um, Tallahassee was up north—part, and then there was Miami, and there was Orlando, and they’d to put the right one—the answer— in that position, and they loved doing that, because it was big enough they could walk around it and look, you know, and then actually put that in themselves, like they named it, and they felt real good about that in fourth grade. Glasshoff Mmhmm. Muse And then I the second best was Grandma’s Attic. They liked the interaction, because they always gave them time to play with the toys and pick them up and touch things, because that’s how we believe, that you should be able to touch things. Glasshoff Mmhmm. So aside from the children that have visited, uh, how do you think, uh—how do you see that the museum has had the most impact on the larger community? Muse Well, I think Sanford citizens that have been here for years love to come back and reminisce, and they see the houses that they used to walk by on their way to school, because they are still here in the pictures the same. A lot of them in Sanford have been restored and that’s just beautiful thing, but they can come back, and they find people on there that[sic] they haven’t seen in a long time, and it brings back memories, and if you get two or three of them from the same class, they start talking, and they really enjoy it, and they end up spending several hours here many-a-times, particularly the older people, because they are just so excited to be back in their element of time, you know? Yeah, and that toy with the blocks was the Jacob’s ladder, and I know a lot of people would know exactly what I’m talking about. Yeah, there. Glasshoff So the decisions to make changes in the, um, museum that have happened recently—and through the time of the museum since you’ve been here—how do you feel that the larger community has impacted the goals and the direction of the museum? Muse Um, that’s a good question, because not many changes were made for many years, ‘cause we didn’t have the people to do—to make the changes, and we didn’t have an assessment of what we needed. We didn’t have time to do that, and it’s something we are working on very diligently right now, and I’m very pleased about how it’s going, but at the time, we were so shorthanded, and we weren’t all professional museum people, and that makes a big difference, ‘cause you don’t realize exactly what goes into making a museum meaningful to that community until you start studying it like we are now, and it's really, I think, had a big impact on everybody working here, and I find we all are working together as a good unit, and that’s—makes me feel real good [laughs]. I really do. Glasshoff So how has the museum affected your life? Muse Well, my husband passed away, um, in 2007, and I find if I don’t get here to work at least two days a week, I get down, because I meet all the people here, I have something that's purposeful in my life, and I’m seeing things coming to fruition, and that makes me feel real good, but I’ve always liked detail-work, and I always feel like anything that has to do with books and pictures and things that have to do with one particular area has got to be a good situation to present to the public. I really do. Glasshoff And how has it—how has it affected the way that you understand Sanford? Muse I find the people are so friendly and so happy to know that we treasure them and their city as something very worthwhile, and has been very, very, um, very instrument—instrumentally with the—sending things from Jacksonville, the transportation, the steamships all here, and then it's disseminated out along the—the coast—the east coast, the west coast of Florida, and it’s been very interesting for me to learn about it, and they, I think, are proud that we are studying this and keeping track of all the pictures and everything, so that we can look back and see it, and General [Henry Shelton] Sanford—he lived right here in Florida, right at the top of the hill here for many years, and he has a real connection to this city, and I’ve been amazed at how many people have visited his grave up in Connecticut, and we have pictures of that downstairs on the Sanford, uh, bulletin board right outside the office, and the man came and brought me the pictures all on a CD, and I made copies of them with his permission, and I—I thought it was very exciting, and then when people come in and see it, they’re even—they say, “Oh, that’s new,” you know, and I say, “Yeah, we got those by him giving them to us,” and it was wonderful. Yeah. Glasshoff So kind of moving in a different direction now [laughs]—you’ve worked here quite a while, and you’ve seen a tons of people come and go. Uh, who do you think was the most memorable person to you that has come to visit the museum? Muse Well, I think, Mr. Douglas Stenstrom, who was born here in 1921, and he passed away in 2010. He was a fantastic person, and he—he was in the World War II in the South Pacific. He attended the University of Florida, the University of Virginia, Stetson College.<a title="">[1]</a> He was a county judge, he was a state senator, and he did many more things than that, and he would come and sit and talk with us when we had an event, and he’d sit for an hour or two, and when he left, he always left a check for us to put into the—the—the bank for keeping this place going, because he was very attached to it—both he and his wife, and they were lovely people, and with all that education and everything, he always found time to stop by, and we just really delighted in him, and I think everybody did, because you couldn’t walk by him without saying something to him, ‘cause everybody knew him. Yeah, it was wonderful. He was a wonderful man. Plus he has a school named after him out in Oviedo, Stenstrom Elementary. Yeah, he[sic] a very generous gentleman. Glasshoff So kind of moving away from that, uh—do you’ve any people in mind that[sic] might have gone to the school here that we could contact for future projects at the museum? Muse Well, to tell you the truth, Jesse, I gave a whole list of them to Dr. [Rosalind “Rose” J.] Beiler, and they are a lot of the people—the Stiffys—and they are local people that have been here for years and donated their time in many schools and for many activities, and then, um, there’s, um, Bill Robinson. He’s a local person that lives here, and he is just as friendly and happy a man as I’ve ever known, and he went to school here, and his picture’s down one of the bulletin boards downstairs. Plus there is a number of other ones, but I—I can’t remember them all, but I did give her a long list of them with phone numbers, and how to get a hold of them. Glasshoff That’s good news [laughs]. Muse [laughs] In fact, you could get that list, if you’re interested, from her. I’m sure. Glasshoff Do you’ve any ideas about spreading the word about the history harvest? Muse Well, I think one of the best ways we could do it is to get The Orlando Sentinel columnists—there’s, I think, a Kay—Kay Richardson or—or something. I can’t remember her name, but there’s[sic] several columnists that[sic] do stories on this, and also The Sanford Herald, and if they would do a piece on it and tell ‘em we’re looking for people to bring in things for this, um, um, history harvest, I think it would get out real quick that way, because most people take that Sanford Herald, and if—if they don’t get The Orlando Sentinel—I know friends do, and they pass it around the neighborhood, but I’m sure there would be a lot of people that would be interested in it if they explained what it was and what they want to do. I think it would be great, and I’m excited about it. I really think it will be great. Glasshoff Well, thank you for doing the interview. I think that’s[sic] all the questions I have. Muse You’re quite welcome. Glasshoff Is there anything that you wanted to say—that you wanted to add? Muse No, I’m just so happy with the partnership that we have. The people that are coming to work and help are so good, and they are doing a tremendous job, and it makes me feel so good that it’s going to be carried on for years to come, really. Glasshoff [inaudible]. Muse Yeah, I really am. Glasshoff Okay. Again, thank you for doing the interview. Muse You’re quite welcome. Shirley Muse Interviewed by Jesse Glasshoff October 12, 2012 <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Present-day Stetson University. </div> </div> 7th Street Amtrak archival collection Beiler, Rosalind collection cataloger collections manager columnist county judge Florida State University fossil FSU gardener general Geography Lab: Where in the World Are We? Glasshoff, Jesse Grandma’s Attic Historic Sanford Welcome Center History Harvest Jacob’s Ladder librarian Library Science media specialist Million, Shirley Muse, Shirley Orlando Sentinel Panama Canal Zone PHC Pioneer Exhibit: Before the Settlement of Sanford Richardson, Kay Robinson, Bill Sanford Herald Sanford Middle Sanford Middle School Sanford MS Sanford Welcome Center Seventh Street South Pacific state senator Stenstrom Stenstrom Elementary Stenstrom, Douglas Stetson College Stetson University Stiffy's Student Museum The Orlando Sentinel UCF UCF Public History Center UF University of Central Florida University of Florida University of Virginia UV volunteer https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/5d5b3d240d53b72ebf287f1e235e1787.mp3 f598c750a76ede886e9c3ca18bfcc729 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9022fb8133dc9d3739916fea1cad4050.pdf 33f8108e4f724960ed57b50e7e97752f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Jared Muha Collection Subject Lake Apopka (Fla.) Agriculture--Florida Migrant labor Apopka (Fla.) Description A collection of oral history interviews conducted by Jared Muha. Creator Muha, Jared Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Sister Gail Grimes Alternative Title Oral History, Grimes Subject Lake Apopka (Fla.) Apopka (Fla.) Agriculture--Florida Description An oral history interview of Sister Gail Grimes, a Roman Catholic sister from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, who moved to Apopka, Florida, in January of 1975 to serve the farmworker, low-income and immigrant communities. This interview was conducted by Jared Muha in Apopka on October 10, 2014. Some of the topics covered include moving to Apopka, working for the Hope CommUnity Center, the working conditions of Central Florida farmworkers, Apopka farms in the 1970s, relations between farmworkers and crew leaders, migration to Florida, early types of industry, the development of muck farms, shifting racial dynamics on Apopka farms, a history of racism in Central Florida, finding work after the shutdown of Lake Apopka, and the legacy of black farmworkers in Florida history. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Hope CommUnity Center 0:04:30 Working conditions 0:12:48 Apopka farms in the 1970s 0:19:03 Relations between farmworkers and crew leaders 0:24:21 Migration to Florida and the development of muck farms 0:27:47 Shifting racial dynamics and pesticide exposure 0:37:04 Shutdown of Lake Apopka 0:43:13 The legacy of black farmworkers and Dowdell v. City of Apopka 0:49:51 Segregation 0:52:41 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Sister Gail Grimes. Interview conducted by Jared Muha in Apopka, Florida, on October 10, 2014. Type Sound Source Grimes, Gail. Interviewed by Jared Muha, October 10, 2015. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank"> Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/53" target="_blank"> Apopka Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 53-minute, and 27-second oral history: Grimes, Gail. Interviewed by Jared Muha. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Farmworker Association of Florida, Apopka, Florida Hope CommUnity Center, Apopka, Florida Lake Apopka, Florida Creator Grimes, Gail Muha, Jared Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> Contributor Cravero, Geoffrey Date Created 2014 -10 -10 Date Copyrighted 2014 -10 -10 Format audio/mp3 application/pdf Extent 48.9 MB 239 KB Medium 53-minute and 27-second audio recording 26-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created by Sister Gail Grimes and Jared Muha, transcribed by Geoffrey Cravero, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> External Reference Damron, David. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2014-04-14/news/os-apopka-nuns-back-demings-20140414_1_nuns-val-demings-sister-gail-grimes" target="_blank">Apopka nuns donate to Demings campaign</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, April 24, 2014. Accessed October 3, 2016. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2014-04-14/news/os-apopka-nuns-back-demings-20140414_1_nuns-val-demings-sister-gail-grimes. "<a href="https://hopecommunitycenterapopka.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/newsletter_fall_final_web_version.pdf" target="_blank">Hundreds Enjoyed Festive Retirement Celebration to Honor Sister Gail Grimes</a>." Hope CommUnity Center, 2014 Fall Edition. Accessed October 4, 2016. https://hopecommunitycenterapopka.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/newsletter_fall_final_web_version.pdf. Santich, Kate. "<a href="http://smfws.com/art07032006c.htm" target="_blank">Nuns' efforts aid Apopka farmworkers</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, July 3, 2006. Accessed October 4, 2016. http://smfws.com/art07032006c.htm. Santich, Kate. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-07-03/news/MSISTERS03_1_sisters-reality-tv-hard-work" target="_blank">Hope And Hard Work: Nuns' efforts aid Apopka farmworkers</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, July 3, 2006. Accessed October 4, 2016. Slongwhite, Dale Finley, and Jeannie Economos. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/857802909" target="_blank">Fed Up: The High Costs of Cheap Food</a>. 2014. Giagnoni, Silvia. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/715188868" target="_blank">Fields of Resistance The Struggle of Florida's Farmworkers for Justice</a>. Chicago, Ill: Haymarket Books, 2011. A. Duda & Sons African Americans agricultural labor agriculture alligators Ann Kendrick Apopka Apopka City Council bass bass fishing Bonita Springs boycotts Cape Canaveral carrot houses carrots Cesar Chavez César Estrada Chávez citrus City of Apopka Crealdé School of Art discrimination Dowdell v. City of Apopka E & J Gallo Winery farms Farmworker Association of Florida farmworkers ferneries fernery Gail Grimes gators Germans Haitians Hispanics Hope CommUnity Center Immokalee Jared Muha juice plants kale KKK Ku Klux Klan laborers Lake Apopka Lake County Latinas Latinos lettuce lupus Mexican Americans Mexicans muck farms Museum of the Apopkans nonprofits nuns nurseries nursery Office for Farmworker Ministry orange county orange groves oranges pesticide exposure pesticides Peter Schreyer Pierson Plymouth Plymouth Citrus Products Cooperative, Inc. Polk County POW POWs Prisoner of War Prisoners of War race relations racial conflict racism radish radishes religious sisters Roman Catholic Church Roman Catholicism Roman Catholics segregation service learning SLE soldiers Stomping Ground systemic lupus erythematosus The Last Harvest turpentine Vietnam War wages Walt Disney World Resort William Donald Borders Willis V. McCall Willis Virgil McCall Winter Garden Winter Garden City Council Winter Park World War II WWII https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b04816d49be28e9a8bd4764275639c87.pdf 3b4ca33d66e21c6afb4584f654d4d835 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection Description As part of RICHES of Central Florida, UCF intends to record, archive, and make accessible oral history interviews of Central Florida veterans. Diversity is a main focus for this project since there are many different subgroups under the group veterans, all with important stories. While the histories will be largely archived and made available through the UCF library, a portion will be contributed to the ongoing Veterans History Project based out of the Library of Congress. Contributor <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections and University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida Libraries, University of Central Florida Alternative Title CVHP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida United States. Army Army United States. Navy Navy United States. Air Force Air Force United States. Marine Corps Marine Corps Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Jacksonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Honolulu, Hawaii Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Great Lakes, Illinois Long Island, New York Newport, Rhode Island Norfolk, Virginia Germany Qaasuitsup, Greenland Keflavik, Southern Peninsula, Iceland Azores Islands, Portugal Mediterranean Sea Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Johnson, Taylor Interviewee Wheeler, Terry W. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Terry W. Wheeler Alternative Title Oral History, Wheeler Subject Veterans--Florida Army Description An oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler (b. 1959), who served in the U.S. Army, during the Cold War. Wheeler was born in Fort Lee, Virginia, in 1959. He joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and was commissioned into the Army on December 28, 1981. He earned the rank of Captain, as well as several awards and commendations: the Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon, the Army Achievement Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal. Wheeler served in Fort Knox, Kentucky, Schweinfurt, West Germany, and Fort Benning, Georgia. This interview was conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida (UCF) on November 13, 2014. Interview topics include training at Fort Knox, duties as an Armor Officer, assignment in West Germany, Fort Benning, duties as a Tank Company commander, combat simulations, resigning from the Army and attending graduate school, and employment in the private sector. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:32 Background 0:01:52 Enlistment 0:02:25 Training and duties as an Armor Officer 0:05:41 Germany 0:07:16 Inner German border and gunnery 0:08:47 Interaction with Germans and most memorable day 0:10:39 Free time, contacting family, and fellow servicemembers 0:12:00 Fort Benning, Georgia 0:13:46 Tank Company Commander and combat simulations 0:16:22 Resignation and graduate school 0:17:57 Awards and most memorable aspect of service 0:18:41 Post-Army career 0:19:27 Effect of service on civilian life 0:20:21 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Terry W. Wheeler. Interview conducted by Taylor Johnson at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on November 13, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 15-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 11-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Interviewed by Taylor Johnson, November 13, 2014. Audio/video record available. Item DP0016010, UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Fort Knox, Kentucky Schweinfurt, Lower Franconia, Bavaria, Germany U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia Creator Wheeler, Terry W. Johnson, Taylor Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-11-13 Date Issued 2015-01 Date Copyrighted 2014-11-13 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 181 MB 166 KB Medium 21-minute and 11-second DVD/MP4 aduio/video recording 15-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Taylor Johnson and Terry W. Wheeler and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference Hawkins, John Palmer. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44713137" target="_blank">Army of Hope, Army of Alienation: Culture and Contradiction in the American Army Communities of Cold War Germany</a>. Westport, Conn: Praeger, 2001. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/433/rec/1" target="_blank">Wheeler, Terry W.</a> Transcript Johnson Today is November 13th, 2014. I’m interviewing Terry [W.] Wheeler, who served in the Army from 1981 to 1990. I’m Taylor Johnson. Mr. Wheeler served during the Cold War era. He spent time in Fort Knox, Kentucky; Schweinfurt[, Lower Franconia, Bavaria], Germany; and [U.S. Army Infantry School] Fort Benning, Georgia. My name’s Taylor Johnson, again. We’re interviewing Mr. Wheeler as a part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project. We’re recording this interview at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. So my first question is: where were you born? Wheeler I was born in Fort Lee, Virginia. Johnson And when were you born? Wheeler 1959. Fort Lee is a military post, and that is the—that is the Army hospital on post[?]. Johnson So you—sorry. Wheeler That’s okay. Johnson So you grew up on a military post? Wheeler My dad was in the military, and we grew up—I grew up in, uh, location to location, across the United States and Europe, until he retired in 1971. Johnson So what did your father do for the military? Wheeler He was a logistics officer. He was a ward officer [clears throat], and, uh, he—he spent, uh, time in WWII [World War II], Korea[n War], and three tours in Vietnam [War]. Johnson So what did your mother do for a living? Wheeler She was a housewife, Uh, up until about the time my dad retired, and then she came back into the workforce. Johnson Do you have any siblings? Wheeler No, I don’t. Johnson So what did you do before you entered the service? Wheeler I was in college. I was a ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] cadet at Gonzaga University, and so I was a college student. Johnson What did you study? Wheeler I was a business major. Johnson Um, so do you have any other family members that served in the military? Wheeler Um, uncles. My—my dad’s oldest brother was killed during World War II. Uh, his old—his younger brother served in the Navy. His other younger brother served in the Air Force, and then I have cousins who have served in the military also. Johnson So what prompted you to enter the military? Wheeler It’s a—it’s a very easy decision to make, if you grew up in a military family. Uh, it was just a logical progression of what I would like to do to serve, and so I made that decision—when I was in high school—that I was gonna serve. Johnson Um… Wheeler [clears throat]. Johnson So how did your family members feel about you entering the service? Wheeler Uh, they were very supportive. They were not, uh, overly pushing me towards that decision. It was my own decision to make. Uh, my mother was not as happy with that decision as she would’ve been if I had stayed in the civilian side, uh, but that’s the way it turned out. Johnson Um, so what were your first days in the service like? Wheeler I came in at the end of December 1981, and came on active duty, and went to my basic qualification course at Fort Knox. I was an Armor Officer, and so, for the next four and a half months, I spent time at Fort Knox learning how to be a platoon leader—a second Lieutenant, and then I was assigned to Germany after that. Johnson So what did you do as an Armor Officer? Wheeler Well, sp—the position that I was in was, uh, a cavalry position. That is a sub-branch of the armor—a subsection of the armor. Uh, Cavalry is a screen unit—a—a scout unit, if you will, that works in a divisional or regimental level. Basically, the cav’s mission is to, uh, screen and be the leading edge of a, uh—of the unit, uh, in the advance, to screen the flanks to make sure there are no surprises. So it’s very, very light, very, very fast reconnaissance. Johnson Um, so what was your initial training like? Wheeler Four and a half months of learning everything, from personnel actions to vehicle repair to how to employ the weapons systems on all the vehicles that we are going to be assigned, Radio communications. I mean, the entire gamut that you would expect to serve in that posi—in a ge—in that position as a leader. Uh, second lieutenant platoon leader is an entry-level position for combat arms. Um, Basically, uh, you’re in charge of about 38 soldiers and about—at that—at that point in time [sighs]—let me count vehicles real quick—about 13 vehicles. Johnson Um,okay. Wheeler [clears throat]. Johnson So what do you remember most about your time in training? Wheeler Time in training? Johnson Mmhmm. Wheeler Fort Knox, in the wintertime, is very cold. As Germany is very cold. Um, it was a lot of fun. We learned a lot in a very short amount of time, and, uh, long days, long nights, and it was a really good building experience. Uh, the people that you meet, in that same course, are people that[sic] you serve with in the military throughout your career, and it is a boomerang-type effect, because you come back together. They’re sent to units, you’re sent to units, you run into them for training exercises or operational deployments. You come back together for training over time, and so you’re building a cohort of—of people that you serve with throughout the rest of your career. Johnson Um… Wheeler [clears throat]. Johnson What type of advanced training did you receive, if any? Wheeler Um, really, advanced is not key to this, at that point. Um, basically, you know, eh, for the armor side, you come in, you’re given, uh, the tra—the base training, and you go out and be a platoon leader, and you spend a couple years doing that. If you’re selected for the advanced course, then you come back as a ju—a senior lieutenant or a junior-grade captain, and go through another six-month type course, where they lear—they—you need to learn how to be an effective commander of a small unit—a Company Commander. At the end of that, then you go out and serve a utilization tour, being a leader at that level. So it’s, you know, two grades up, and then, at that point, then you—you split off in your career, and pull the secondary career, and so you split off into another area, and so, at that point then—rom that point forward in your career you, flip flop between your primary and your secondary specialty. So I really didn’t have advanced training, other than the fact that I went through the career course as a Captain, and then commanded a unit. Johnson Okay, um… Wheeler [clears throat] Excuse me. Johnson So when did you find out that you were going to Germany? Wheeler Um, April 1982. Right at the end—I received orders for that, right as I was finishing up my qualification course. Johnson And how did you react to that news? Wheeler I was very happy. I had spent two years in Germany as a child. I already spoke fluent German, and so it was not a huge, life-changing experience to go over there. Um, usually what you walk as a—as an American, when you walk into Germany—not having served there, not having any background to it—you go through a couple weeks of qualif—uh, of familiarization, where you learn rudimentary language, and I was not—I was able to just bypass that and mainstream right in. Johnson Um, so what was, uh—what was a routine day like during your assignment in Germany? Wheeler Well, [clears throat] I can give you a routine—a, uh, better description than that. For the first year that I was there as a platoon leader, we were in the field 280 days out of 365 days that year. We would deploy out for a, uh—a 30-day session on a border camp, where we would patrol the East German<a title="">[1]</a> interzonal border. From that, we would get on the train and go to a gunnery—three or four weeks of tank gunnery, and from that, we would deploy to a field exercise, go home for two weeks, and then go back to the border for 30 days. So we spent most of our time out actually doing our real world mission, at that point. Um, up at six in the morning, uh, some pu—some, uh—in effect, through midnight—one in the morning. I mean, it was a very, very, very dynamic, high stress, long day environment. Johnson So what did you do in each of those three sort of positions? Wheeler At the border camp, we were responsible to patrol a section of border of—of the East German interzonal border. This was still when the [Berlin] Wall was up. between 2nd ACR [Armored Calvary Regiment] and 11th ACR, we had this—this—this piece of the border that had to be actually manned, and stood ready to—to announce that any—any incursion had come across the border. We were fully combat-loaded. We were deployed there 30 days at a time. We spent 10 days, eh, in a steady reaction state of walking around, with full gear loaded on, helmets in our hands, ready to walk out the gate with five minutes notice to go to our general positions and fight a war. Okay? We spent 10 days in training. We spent 10 days doing actual patrols in jeeps up and down the interzonal border. Uh, it is the—It was the—other than Korea—at that point, it was—we were one of the most forward-deployed units in the Army, at that time. All the vehicles were fully uploaded with the ammunition and ready to go. Johnson So what did you do at the gunnery? Wheeler Gunnery was—there’s a—there’s a—a full qualification session that you have to—to do in tanks to maintain proficiency, and you do that more than two to three—four times a year, and so you would go, and there were actually exercises that you run, shooting live guns, live ammunition at the range, and you qualify as a tank crew, as a section of two, platoon of four, and a company of 12, and so it is, basically, you know, move and shoot, and communicate, and prov—proving proficiency that you can do that. Johnson What did you think of the Germans? Wheeler Well, uh, where we were stationed in Germany, it was in—it was in the very northern end of Bavaria. Germans were very, very polite people. Uh, very welcoming. Um, I’m not so sure that the Germans really enjoyed being occupied still after 40 years of—after the end of the [World] War [II], but, uh, they were very nice. Uh, they—if you spoke German, or at least tried to fit in and blend in, you get a lot further than being an ugly American, and, uh, it was a very pleasant place, and we saw a lot of it riding in the back of a military vehicle. Johnson What was your most memorable day during that assignment? Wheeler Give me a second. Um, [clears throat] we had a soldier that died in a training accident, and the aftermath of that was really hard to deal with. Uh, It was not his—it was not a—a—a, uh—a safety issue that was the direct cause. It truly was an accident. Uh, The tank that he was riding in, uh, went over, uh—now, in Germany—back in the Germany, uh, the train—a lot of the trains and some of the streetcars would run with electricity, and they had these high tension wires overhead, and he was riding in a tank, and the—the antenna on his tank, uh, snapped loose and the antenna went up and hit the top of the—of the high voltage wire, and it arced electricity through the vehicle, and the vehicle basically exploded, and three of the—of the four crew were able to get out, and he was unable to get out, and he passed away. So that was very difficult to deal with. Uh, seeing the aftermath of that [clears throat], having to pull the tank apart, trying to take his remains out, you know, that kind of thing. So that—that was a very memorable day. Johnson Um, what did you do with your free time, while you were in Germany? Wheeler Traveled. Johnson Uh, can you tell me about that? Wheeler A—again, we were deployed most of the time. So when there was a free couple of day—a week—a weekend, or a free three- or four-day event, we would get in the car and disappear. Drove all over Bavaria, uh, spent time in France [clears throat], spent some time, uh, in Northern Germany. Um, basically just enjoying the, uh—the countryside and the people. Johnson Um, so how did you stay in touch with your family while you were overseas? Wheeler We didn’t have email, at that time. Computers were still brand new [clears throat]. So it was by post. Uh, Telephone calls were very expensive, so telephones didn’t really get figured into that, so letters. Johnson And what do you remember about the people that you served with, while you were there? Wheeler I still have friends that I’ve stayed in contact with, after all these years. That was, uh, 1982-1983-1984 timeframe. I still stay in touch with a few of ‘em. Uh, Very dedicated group of people, um, very like-minded. Uh, you find in the military that not just the clothes you wear make you the same. Very, very similar backgrounds, characteristics, views on the world, and, uh, it was a very, very good time to be a young officer, at that point. Johnson Um, and what was it like when you came back to the U.S.? Wheeler They call the flight from Germany to the United States the “freedom bird” for a reason. Uh, everyone’s happy to come home. Uh, it is a great feeling of—of, uh, assimilation back into society [clears throat], into the culture that you—you are in. It—and, you know, it is—it is—it wasn’t different, at that point in time. It was Europe, and different language, different money, different feel. It was—it was coming home. So it was very nice to come back to the States. Johnson Um, and what do you remember about Fort Benning? Wheeler [clears throat] Benning is the home of the Infantry [Branch]. Uh, It is—it is a[sic], uh, Infantry training center. Ranger School’s there, Airborne School, Pathfinder [School]. Um, I was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 69th Armor [Regiment], at that—at that point, and we went and we were part of a round—we were part of a—a, uh, brigade that was a round-out element for the, uh, rapid deployment force—XVIII Airborne Corps. So we were, again, fairly—fairly well getting ready to be on, you know—on a couple hours’ notice, ready to deploy into the world, but, uh, it was—it was a great training opportunity. We were the only armor unit on post. So we would get tagged for a lot of fire demonstrations and combined arms demonstrations, when the—when the—when the, uh, senior, uh, officers would come—come into town [clears throat], and so we spent a lot of time working with the Infantry. We really refined the—the union—the union of the true mechanized team, at that point. So it was not armor pure. It was that combined arms element that we really struggled to, uh, put in place, and it was really, really great training opportunity. Johnson Did you receive any advanced training for your job as a Tank Company Commander? Wheeler Yeah, I went through the advanced course. That was, ah—so coming back from Germany, I spent six months again at Fort Knox, going through the next phase of that course and came out, eh, eh, basically ready to be a Company Commander. So when I was—I was deployed to Benning, I spent the next, uh, 16 months as a Maintenance Officer for a battalion, and then was assigned as a Company Commander, and spent, uh, [sighs] another probably 18 to 20 months, I guess, as a Tank Company Commander. Johnson Um… Wheeler [clears throat]. Johnson So what can you tell me about your job with combat simulations—the combat simulations branch? Wheeler At the end of my command time, uh, I picked my secondary specialty as Operations Research and Systems Analysis, and there was a group that was doing that type of work attached to the Infantry center, and so I went in, and I was a—an Executive Officer for this small group that used computers—which were very, very, uh, elementary, as compared to what we have now—to do war gaming, to look at how new equipment inserted into a battlefield would make a differential change. So basically, you would take the characteristics of—of a new weapon system, and you would deploy that with—so you’d run simulations without that weapon system and you would run simulations with that weapons system, and look for the differentials that you could achieve and how much more advantage it gave you. It was part of the co—cost and operational effectiveness analysis for getting those systems to be brought online. Johnson Um, so—I lost my place. Um, what was a routine day like while you were in Georgia? Wheeler Um, at—at the—at the, uh—at the armor group job? Or in the, uh—the simulations job? Johnson Um, either one. Wheeler Armor job—realistically, almost every line unit almost has the exact same type of training as—same type of day. Uh, up in the morning, depending on, you know—three days a week you run PT [physical training] from six o’clock to seven o’clock, have a shower, be back at—at work at—at eight for formation. Going through the day, whether training, or maintenance, or what have you, and are usually done by six o’clock at night, Uh, Back home to families. Um, the—the Executive Officer’s job is—at the branch, we would spend the day doing the same thing. We would do PT a couple days a week, and then, um, go into what was more of an office-style environment to do those simulations. Um, we had a staff of about eight members—both soldiers and civilians—that worked that group, and we would do these simulation exercises on the computers. Johnson So what was it like when your service ended? Wheeler Um, [clears throat] I made the decision to—to, uh, resign my commission and come out of active duty, uh, in early spring of 1990. Um, my secondary priority[?]—I had already worked at my secondary specialty for two years, and was unable to get the Army to agree to send me to grad[uate] school for a funded grad program, and I had watched officers who had gone through the Army non-funded program and the funded grad program, come out and see how effective they were in that job, and the ones that[sic] were coming out, not having gone to grad school, were not being retained, and I was not selected to go through the grad program, so that basically was the de—deciding point [clears throat] that, if I couldn’t do that and retain my time—because I figured, at that point, I would not be able to continue. I elected to resign and get out, and then I, uh, applied for grad school and went to grad school. Um, My ETS [Expiration Term of Service] was June 30th, 1990, and the Army froze all separation actions July 15th, for the [Persian] Gulf War. So that was immediately—I mean, it was—it days before the Gulf War jumped from there, almost. Johnson Um, so what did you study when you went to grad school? Wheeler I studied information systems, and, uh, spend 18 months in grad school. Johnson Um, What can you tell us about the awards that you received from the Army? Wheeler Very, very common, uh, awards that people, you know—you spend eight years doing that. Um, nothing—nothing major. Um, you know, Army Achievement Medals for stuff, and, uh, that’s pretty much it. Nothing major. Johnson Um, and what was the most memorable thing overall about your time in the service? Wheeler You know, as I alluded to earlier, uh, it is a—it is a great pleasure to spend time with people of a like mind. Okay? I found a lot of the people, that[sic] I spent time with, had the same values, same views on the world, politics, that I did, and so it was a brotherhood, and just the—the people that[sic] I—and the friendships, I guess, that I had—had gained, and the relationships from work that I had from that group of people is what I retained from that. Johnson Um, and what was your job after you left the service. Wheeler When I came out I went to grad school and finished grad school at Syracuse [University], and, uh, [clears throat] I went to work for IBM [International Business Machines Corporation] as an intern, did that for about nine months, and then came into the private sector. Johnson Um, and what are you doing now? Wheeler I am currently the director of IT [information technology] services for the Student Development and Enrollment Services division here<a title="">[2]</a> on campus. Johnson So what can you tell me about that? Wheeler Basically, SDES is the largest division on campus. We have about 2,400 staff that we maintain computer action for servers for, so desktop, laptop, database, uh, web design, and that’s what we encompass. So basically, I run the services side of that group. Johnson Um, and how has your time in the military affected your life since then? Wheeler There hasn’t really been an effect since then. It was a—any time you transition from the military to the ci—the civilian sector, it can create a period of—of, uh, change, I guess you would say. Uh, going from the major activities, and the mindset, and the—the guidelines that we do into what the civilian world does not encompass. Um, it took about a year—a year and a half—to go through that and actually transition the mindset away. Johnson And do you belong to any veterans groups? Wheeler No, I do not. Johnson What do you do with your free time since you left the service? Wheeler Uh, I have—I have children. So pretty much now it’s just work and—and, you know, time with family and Boy Scouts [of America]. Johnson Um, and what would you say to someone who is contemplating enlisting or becoming a commissioned officer today? Wheeler Military service is an honor, and, uh, it’s a calling that, if you’re called to do, you really want to without any real reason to explain why, and it’s a very, very honorable thing to do, and if that is—if that is a design that is something that interests someone to do, I encourage them fully to accept that and enjoy. Johnson Um, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about? Wheeler No, ma’am. Johnson Alright. Well, thank you for your time, and for coming to talk with me today, and thank you for your service. I appreciate your participation, and we will be in touch with you once we have a copy of your interview. Wheeler Thank you. Johnson Thank you. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> German Democratic Republic (GDR). </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> At the University of Central Florida. </div> </div> 11th ACR 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment 18th Airborne Corps 2nd ACR 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment 2nd Battalion 2nd Lieutenant 69th Armor Regiment Achievement Medal ACR advanced training Airborne Corps Armor Officer Armor Regiment Armored Cavalry Regiment basic training Bavaria, Germany Berlin Wall Blachorse Regiment cavalry COEA cold war combat simulations Community Veterans History Project Company Commander cost and operational effectiveness analysis CVHP deployments East Germany Eighteenth Airborne Corps Eleventh Armored Cavalry Regiment enlistment Executive Officer Federal Republic of Germany Fort Benning, Georgia Fort Knox, Kentucky Fort Lee, Virginia Free State of Bavaria freedom birds FRG German Democratic Republic Germans Germany Infantry Branch information technology inner German border IT lieutenants Maintenance Officer military training Operations Research/Systems Analysis ORSA rapid deployment force Reserve Officers' Training Corps ROTC Schweinfurt, Germany scouts SDES Second ACR Second Armored Cavalry Regiment Second Battalion Second Lieutenant simulation training Sixty-Ninth Armor Regiument Student Development and Enrollment Services Tank Company Commander Taylor Johnson Terry W. Wheeler U.S. Army U.S. Army Infrantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia UCF UCF SDES UCF Student Development and Enrollment Services veterans weapon systems West Germany XVIII Airborne Corps https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/cd74f6d4f021c278f1ade750cb885974.pdf bdd511db4f3e441d5ee27c985c92705a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title General Collection Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Florida was first inhabited by Paleo-Indians as early as 14,000 years ago. By the 16th century, several distinct Native American tribes inhabited present-day Florida, primarily the Apalachee of the Panhandle, the Timucua of North and Central Florida), the Ais of the Central Atlantic Coast, the Tocobaga of the Tampa Bay area, the Calusa of Southwest Florida, and the Tequesta of the Southeast Florida. In 1513, Juan Ponce de León of Spain became the earliest known European explorer to arrive in Florida. During the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, Spanish, French, and English pioneers settled various parts of the states, though not all settlement were successful. Most of the region was owned by Spain, until it was ceded to the United States via the Adams–Onís Treaty of 1819. On March 3, 1845, Florida earned statehood. Florida was marred by nearly constant warfare with the Native Americans in the region, particularly with the Seminoles during the Seminole Wars. On January 10, 1861, Florida seceded from the Union and joined the Confederate States of American on January 20th. The state's participation in the Civil War revolved mostly around the transportation of goods via ships. On June 25, 1868, Florida regained its representation in Congress. During the Reconstruction period, Florida drafted a new state constitution, which included statues that effectively disenfranchised its African-American citizens, as well as many poor white citizens. Through much of its early history, Florida's economy relied heavily upon agriculture, especially citrus, cattle, sugarcane, tomatoes, and strawberries. Florida's tourism industry developed greatly with the economic prosperity of the 1920s. However, this was halted by devastating hurricanes in the second half of the decade, the Wall Street Crash of 1929, and the Great Depression. The economy would not fully recover until manufacturing was stimulated by World War II. As of 2014, Florida was the third most populous state in the country. Contributor Humphrey, Daphne F. Alternative Title General Collection Subject Florida Eatonville (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Daytona Beach (Fla.) New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Eatonville, Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Park, Florida Sanford , Florida Daytona Beach, Florida New Smyrna Beach, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://dos.myflorida.com/florida-facts/florida-history/" target="_blank">Florida History</a>." Florida Department of State. http://dos.myflorida.com/florida-facts/florida-history/. Knotts, Bob. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/49672975" target="_blank">Florida History</a>. Chicago: Heinemann Library, 2003. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Lester, Connie L. Clark, James C. Interviewee Hitt, John C. Berridge, Randolph E. Panousis, Peter T. Holsenbeck, Dan Martine, Carrie Pynn, Roger Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of the Florida High-Tech Corridor Council Alternative Title Oral History of the Florida High-Tech Corridor Council Subject High technology--United States Colleges Universities Orlando (Fla.) Tampa (Fla.) Gainesville (Fla.) Description An oral history interview of John C. Hitt, Randolph E. Berridge, Dr. Peter T. Panousis, Dan Holsenbeck, Carrie Martine, and Roger Pynn regarding the Florida High Tech Corridor Council. This interview conducted by Dr. Connie L. Lester and James C. Clark at the Board Room in the Office of University of Central Florida President John C. Hitt on December 3rd, 2012. The Florida High Tech Corridor Council (FHTCC) is an economic development initiative whose mission is to foster the high technology industry in Florida's High Tech Corridor, which spans 23 counties with rich industries in aerospace engineering, modeling and simulation, optics and photonics, digital media, and medical technologies. The council consists of the University of Central Florida (UCF) in Orlando, the University of South Florida (USF) in Tampa, and the University of Florida (UF) in Gainesville. In 1996, the Florida Legislature passed an act founding the FHTCC to support the 21-county service areas of UCF and USF. Its original mission was to expand research and educational partnerships in order to retain the Cirent Semiconductor water fabrication facility located in Orlando, Florida. In 1997, the development of all technology industries across Central Florida was added to the FHTCC's mission. UF joined the partnership in 2005. Interview topics include: how the High Tech Corridor Council began, the Dallas-Fort Worth Corridor in Texas, Charlie Reed, reinvesting the original funding, expanding partnerships, Silicon Valley, Lynda Weatherman and economic development in Brevard County, the “Core Team” and the “Pajama Hotline,” the Florida Virtual Entrepreneur Center, serving as a model for other regions, the role of venture capitalism, workforce development, the expansion of the corridor, the impact of the business community on approval of university projects, and future challenges. Table Of Contents 0:00:01 Introduction 0:00:53 How the Florida High Tech Corridor Council began 0:07:24 Taking the plan to the Florida State Legislature 0:13:37 The Dallas-Fort Worth Corridor and project conception 0:20:11 Intellectual property 0:25:47 Charlie Reed 0:28:43 Reinvesting the original funding 0:31:10 Expanding partnerships and funding 0:35:57 Silicon Valley 0:40:02 Role of partnership in the success of the Corridor 0:48:18 Lynda Weatherman and Economic Development in Brevard County 0:51:01 “Core Team” and the “Pajama Hotline” 0:54:40 Florida Virtual Entrepreneur Center 0:58:46 A model for other regions 1:02:10 Growing and retaining versus buying jobs 1:13:27 Role of venture capitalism 1:20:35 Workforce development 1:27:52 Expansion of the Corridor 1:39:08 Impact of business community on approval of university projects 1:42:28 Future challenges Abstract Oral history interview of John C. Hitt, Randolph E. Berridge, Dr. Peter T. Panousis, Dan Holsenbeck, Carrie Martine, and Roger Pynn. Interview conducted by Dr. Connie L. Lester and James C. Clark. Type Moving Image Source Original 1-hour, 59-minute, and 19-second oral history: Hitt, John C., Randolph E. Berridge, Dr. Peter T. Panousis, Dan Holsenbeck, Carrie Martine, and Roger Pynn. Interviewed by Dr. Connie L. Lester and James C. Clark. December 3, 2012. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/36" target="_blank">General Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 50-paged typed digital transcript of original 1-hour, 59-minute, and 19-second oral history: Hitt, John C., Randolph E. Berridge, Dr. Peter T. Panousis, Dan Holsenbeck, Carrie Martine, and Roger Pynn. Interviewed by Dr. Connie L. Lester and James C. Clark. December 3, 2012. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida AT&T Semiconductor Plant, Orlando, Florida Gray-Robinson Law Firm, Orlando, Florida Advanced Materials Processing and Analysis Center, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida Silicon Valley, Sunnyvale, California Lake Nona Medical City, Orlando, Florida Florida Polytechnic University, Lakeland, Florida Economic Development Commission of Florida's Space Coast, Rockledge, Florida National Academy of Inventors, Tampa, Florida Department of Economic Opportunity, Tallahassee, Florida Florida High Tech Corridor Council, Heathrow, Florida Harrah's Cherokee Casino, Cherokee, North Carolina GrowFl: Florida Economic Gardening Institute, Orlando, Florida Metro Orlando Economic Development Commission, Orlando, Florida Florida Power & Light Company, Winter Park, Florida Central Florida Research Park, Orlando, Florida Creator Lester, Connie L. Hitt, John C. Berridge, Randolph E. Panousis, Peter T. Holsenbeck, Dan Clark, James C. Martine, Carrie Pynn, Roger Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributor Dickens, Bethany Date Created 2012-12-03 Date Modified 2015-01-26 Date Copyrighted 2012-12-03 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 298 MB 383 KB Medium 1-hour, 59-minute, and 19-second audio/video recording 50-page typed digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Science Teacher Provenance Originally created by Dr. Connie L. Lester, James C. Clark, John C. Hitt, Randolph E. Berridge, Dr. Peter T. Panousis, Dan Holsenbeck, Carrie Martine, and Roger Pynn and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.floridahightech.com/%20target=">Florida High Tech Corridor Council</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.floridahightech.com/about/" target="_blank">ABOUT</a>." Florida High Tech Corridor. http://www.floridahightech.com/about/. Burnett, Richard. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-19/business/os-cfb-tech-corridor-092010-20100919_1_grant-program-florida-high-tech-corridor-council-advocacy-group" target="_blank">Technology: Local council's grant program wins award</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, September 19, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-19/business/os-cfb-tech-corridor-092010-20100919_1_grant-program-florida-high-tech-corridor-council-advocacy-group. Florida High Tech Corridor Council. "<a href="http://www.floridahightech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Press-Kit-florida.HIGH_.TECH-2014.pdf%20target=">florida.HIGH.TECH 2014: The Guide to Florida's High Tech Corridor</a>." Florida High Tech Corridor Council. http://www.floridahightech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Press-Kit-florida.HIGH_.TECH-2014.pdf. Manning, Margie. "<a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/print-edition/2011/09/30/high-tech-corridor-matching-grants.html?page=all" target="_blank">High Tech Corridor matching grants create billion-dollar economic engine</a>." Tampa Bay Business Journal, September 30, 2010. http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/print-edition/2011/09/30/high-tech-corridor-matching-grants.html?page=all. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/W3_zduqV0s8" target="_blank">Oral History of the Florida High-Tech Corridor Council</a> Transcript Clark Can you tighten up? Panousis Oh. Pynn Come on over Peter. Just from a standpoint of getting—we want to get pictures and video for the archives. Lester And can I do one thing before we start? Pynn Oh, no. Panousis Should I get this out of the way? Lester Best practices says that we need to get a—a release so that we can use this. So I am going to send this around. Pynn Doing exactly what you’re supposed to do. Lester Yes [laughs]. Pynn And so while you guys are—are signing those, I mean, I just—I—I shared some of these questions with you earlier today but, [Dr.] Connie [L. Lester] is—is leading this effort in the—in the [University of Central Florida] History Department, and Jim Clark has been working very closely with her, and Bethany [Dickens] is—you’re a graduate student, right? Dickens Mmhmm. Yes, sir. Pynn And we’ve been on a—some months’ quest to review everything that we have in our archives about the [Florida High Tech] Corridor and—and how it evolved, but in a meeting that we had—I guess a couple of months back—both Connie and Jim said, “You know, it would really be helpful to have the anecdotal background. The opportunity to sit and—and talk with this team.” Because we had described how it all began and how you four worked together to make it happen, and so I volunteered that I—no. The first idea was that I was going to take everybody out to lunch. We didn’t get there [laughs], but it—it really would be helpful if you all could just think back a little bit before we get into any questions or any specifics. Think back to how this all began. Randy,<a title="">[1]</a> I think you probably picked up the ball and Kerry it from [Dr.] Pete[r T. Panousis]’s office to John [C. Hitt] and started the conversation, and maybe you—maybe you want to, Dan… Berridge We had… Pynn First, I can’t remember. Berridge We had a council of some 25 division heads of AT&T [Inc.] representing about 6,000 employees. I had the smallest division, and I was the oldest and the dumbest, so I got to chair the thing [laughs], and tried for 12 years to pass that gavel on to someone else—unsuccessfully. In [19]95, Peter and Peter’s associate, Bob Cook, had shared that there was a major expansion that was going to happen to their semi-conductor manufacturing operation, then located on the south side of Orlando[, Florida], and it had the potential of being up to 1.4 billion and 1,500 jobs. Normally, that kind of operation gets most people’s attention, but the concern was that the expansion, at the time, looked like it was going to happen offshore, based on incentives that were ladled to the tune of $90 million. Payable in two years, and what we had in Florida at the time—thanks to some research that Charlie Gray, founder of the Gray-Robinson Law Firm—and—and I had the pleasure of helping with—was that Florida had about 6 million [dollars] payable over seven years, and so, with Charlie’s help, we negotiated another 6 million, also payable over seven years. So those of you who are really good at net present value calculations: if you had 90 million incentives payable over 2 versus 12 payable over seven, I think I am pretty sure which—which one you would pick. We had several things going for us. We had a great management team that didn’t necessarily—didn’t want to move to Madrid[, Spain]. We had a facility that was built three times larger in the early 80s than needed at that time that we could readily expand into, but more importantly, we had a research capability provided by UCF [University of Central Florida] and USF [University of South Florida] that was not available offshore. And so one day on the golf course—Roger [Prynn], you were there—we shared with John that we are fighting a potentially losing battle regarding this facility and, John, you said, “Well what—what do you need? What do you—what do you have the potential of having here that you don’t have offshore?” And we replied, “A research commitment that UCF and its professors and USF and its—have been providing for quite some time.” So John, you checked with Betty Castor, then-president of USF and came back with a commitment of $20 million, payable over 10 years—1 million per year, per school—of real asset. Not something where we would try to figure out what it was, but a real asset and that made the difference. Peter, why don’t you… Panousis Let me add a little bit to the first part. The—the opportunity to move to Spain—the Spanish government providing the—the extra money—may have been appealing to some people, but it wasn’t to me [laughs], and it also wasn’t to a group of 100 engineers we had moved from New Jersey and Pennsylvania to Florida just six months before that, and so we really, really wanted to find some way to stay in Florida. We liked the facility, we liked living here, and we certainly didn’t want to move again, and we weren’t quite also all that sure about what would happen if we moved to Spain, just because I could feel the boat rocking, and so, when the opportunity to—came up to find alternatives, we jumped at those opportunities, because they were important to us, as I believe they would have been to the State of Florida, and so we’re—we are in the right mood for that kind of operation. And the thing that made a difference is—I think Randy talked about the money. You looked at the money that was on the table, and if—if it was just money, you go to Spain. You wouldn’t—you wouldn’t come here, but what was being offered and what we worked out after a while with the—with the universities was an opportunity to couple in to two universities—two large universities—and—and connect to the research base in a way that we could never have been able do in Spain, and we really were a very high-tech company. We were leading edge in the semi-conductor field. So having that kind of support was worth a lot of money, and so it became—it became an easier sell when we could go back to the board of directors and say, “Look what we can do here,” compared to “what we can do there,” and—and it worked. Pynn So what was the—what was the process, Dan, that took it to the [Florida State] Legislature? Took it to the next step and actually resulted in the creation of the entity? Holsenbeck Well, as the mathematics, that Randy explained, boil down to a million dollars a year for each of the institutions to offset the million dollars a year worth of research. Whether that was in-kind or actually whatever it might have been, it had a value of about a million dollars, and so, our charge by the president was to try to find, you know, additional cash from the Legislature to make that happen. So my colleague, who has since retired at USF, Kathy Betancourt and I started to work together on a strategy to simply to get a million dollar earmark. We didn’t think we could get a million apiece, but we thought we could get a million total. So our first visit was to [Antoinette] “Toni” Jennings, who was President of the [Florida] Senate and—from here, and we proposed to her a million dollars, and she said, “A million is too much. Seven figures is difficult for the Legislature to absorb right now. I don’t think we’d even talk about it. Anything less than that for a major project …” But anyway, she said, “Why don’t you settle on something a little bit lower? How about 850 [thousand]?” And of course, Kathy and I said, “Yes, ma’am. 850 is fine,” and actually, Toni was not president of the Senate at that time… Hitt She was Chairman of the [Committee on] Rules… Holsenbeck She was Chairman of the Rules, exactly. About to be President of the Senate, and so she sent us down to—to see the Chairman of [Committee on] Appropriations at that point, who was the infamous Senator Tilders. I don’t make a personality judgment by saying “infamous,” but he was famous in some ways and not so famous in others probably, but Kathy and I went to visit with him and he said, “Did Senator Jennings approve of this and ask for this?” And we both said, “Yes, sir,” and his response, which I’ll never forget, was, “Whatever that young lady wants, I’ll give her.” Berridge [laughs] Young lady… HolsenbeckSo the Senate was going to put $850,000 in the budget. The second part of that—and the president was a witness to it—I probably ought to let a witness tell a truth rather than me embellish the story. Hitt Oh, I’m eager to hear it. Holsenbeck All right, but… Pynn Y’all have already heard some revisionist history so far [laughs]. Holsenbeck But our next step was to go to the [Florida] House [of Representatives] because we had a commitment from the powers in the Senate, and there are lots of other commitments too in the Senate. [John Hugh] “Buddy” Dyer, for example. I mean, Buddy was, at the time, one of the leading Democratic [Party] Senators. I think he was later majority—I mean minority leader, but we had his full support from the very beginning. So Senator Jennings knew that she—with her support and with the minority leader’s support—because you were in Buddy Dyer’s district at the time—that was pretty good. But we had to cultivate the House, and that’s the way those things do, you have to go back and forth. So Representative Alzo [J.] Reddick happened to be Chairman in a Democratically-controlled House of the Committee on Transportation and Economic Development Funding at the time. So the president and I went to visit him and talk through the project and so forth, and ask him for a million dollars, and he said, “I’ll do it,” and then he calls his staff director in from around the corner—I forget what his name was—and the staff director comes in and Alzo says, “I want a million dollars in the budget for this project,” and he says, “Well, what is it and what will—will he do?” And that’s the source of the tale that whatever it is I had in my pocket. Hitt It was an envelope, as I recall. Holsenbeck Yeah. I just wrote down, “Million dollars for UCF, USF, and AT&T to grow, retain, and attract high technology industry to the I[nterstate]-4 High Technology Corridor,” and we handed that to the staff director, and that’s how it came out in the bill, and that’s what the source is of that original language. Now you got a million dollars in the House, and 850 in the Senate. Guess what happens when you go to [U.S.] Congress? Randy gets $925,000, and that’s where the original appropriation came from, and it was also funded through Enterprise Florida—which a lot of people forget—which created some interesting situations later on. Pynn Had we created Enterprise at that point? I didn’t realize that. Holsenbeck Mmhmm. Berridge About the same time. Panousis Let me—let me add a little to that, because there’s a piece that I think you might find interesting. I still remember the very first meeting we had. I met John and Betty Castor and the airport and we went to see Charlie [Bass] Reed, and I didn’t know any of them at the time. We all met for the first time and Charlie Reed was the [State University System of Florida] Chancellor of Education at the time, and—and basically I wanted to—all I was there for was to get some money out of the—out of the universities. I wanted $10 million. He—after he stopped laughing, said, “No. don’t you understand? Companies give us your money. We don’t give them money.” [laughs] And we had a discussion about that, but after—after we were done and John—that’s where John showed, at least for me, the very first picture of High-Tech Corridor —the lights along the two coasts… Berridge It’s there. Right there. Pynn That middle thing there. Panousis I remember him showing that, and describing the way—at that time it was—it was Dallas[, Texas] and… Hitt Dallas and Fort Worth[, Texas]. Panousis And Fort Worth. Growing together and—that’s the picture he had, and—and in that discussion, I think Charlie Reed sort of bought into it pretty—pretty well. Hitt Yeah. Panousis And as—at the end of the meeting he said, “Look. I don’t know how to do this.” But—but we shook hands and he said, “I’ll find a way,” and I think what you described was the way. Pynn The way. Berridge I think you need to share—since you shared it with the board of governors and your fellow presidents—the idea—the corridor coming to you… Hitt Oh, yeah. Berridge In the shower, you know? Pynn It drives Dan [Holsenbeck] crazy to hear this story. Thanks Randy [laughs]. Hitt Well, Dan will get over it [laughs]. Pynn We all take showers, Dan. Holsenbeck I—I know. I know. Berridge Your historians are wondering what’s coming. Hitt I know. Well, early in my time here, I had driven pretty much coast to coast to the center part of the state, and, you could see along I-4 infill of population, and I’d watched that process take place in my native state of Texas, between Dallas and Fort Worth. When I was a boy, you could see, you know, area between them was ranch land, there were a lot of cattle grazing along the side of the highway. You know, it was really a rural environment. Well, by the time I left Texas in—in ‘77, they had pretty well grown together, and if you’re—if you’ve driven along it in—in the last 20 years or so, you know, it’s—it’s one big, continuous metropolitan area now, but, you know, it occurred to me pretty strongly there—there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people who are moving in, and a lot of them settle right along that corridor, that, you know, essentially goes from the Tampa Bay area to—to the—the Daytona [Beach] area. But, you know, it sort of spills down towards the Space Coast as well, and the question in my mind is what kind of jobs are they going to have? Now, we’ve got a great hospitality industry here in—in Central Florida and, you know, it—it is the backbone of our economy in this—in—in this part of our state. Really for our whole state, but if you think about the—the distribution of pay for the jobs that they’ve got, it’s biased towards lower in—income employment. Now all jobs are good jobs. You think about it, there’s—if the alternative is unemployment, just about any job’s a good job, but, it—it just occurred to me that, if we really are going to have the kind of jobs we want our kids and grandkids to have, it would be really helpful if you could find a way to bring in more high tech industry, and it seemed to me that we had a good chance with two large state institutions, each of which had a strong engineering program, a strong business program, the—the natural laboratory sciences to support research and development. We really could have a—a guiding effect, if you will, on the development of the economy, and I had proposed to—to Betty Castor, before Peter came on the—on the scene, that we try and put together a cooperative endeavor and get some state funding for it, and—and Betty just had too many other things on her plate at that time, you know. She didn’t really respond all that favorably, you know, and I—you know, I didn’t take that as a bad thing. I figured, Well, we’ve got time—time. We’ll win her over soon or later on this. It’s a good idea, and we just went on. Well then, Pete’s opportunity challenge presented itself, and I think what you saw was the value of a good organizing concept. It—it—there’s nothing all that overpowering about the idea. It’s just—it’s—it’s just sort of an observation. Gee, Dallas and Fort Worth grew together, I think I see the same kind of process beginning here in—in Central Florida. Isn’t that interesting? Well, then you think about two universities, and well, Maybe we could have an influence on what kind of jobs get developed, maybe we could raise the—the prospects for high tech industry, and then, guess what? We get a really high tech industry who is wanting our help, and we were able to get enough people excited about the possibility to really do something, and—I—I’ve said repeatedly, with—without the opportunity to work with Peter, all we’ve got’s kind of an interesting idea. You know, better than no idea at all, but it probably would have come to very little if we hadn’t had a—large-scale employer in a high tech business who really wanted and needed our help. You know, I think wanted more than needed. You would have gone somewhere, you know. You would have gone to Spain or somewhere else without us, but, you know, you wanted our help, and sometimes wanting something is every bit an important or more than needing. So we were able to put together an idea, and Dan’s memory is just as mine—we had it, you know—it was the focus right then when we were at Alzo’s outer office—was retention. We had the foresight to put—attract, grow, and retain in that bill, and that is indeed what let us go from this one instance to a general operation that recruits, grows and, we hope, retains high tech industry. It—it’s been a very interesting thing to watch—and you know—and without—without Peter, you don’t have much. Without Dan’s skills in the Legislature we don’t have much and without Randy’s determined leadership—and excellent leadership over the years—we probably wouldn’t have nearly what we have. Berridge That’s very kind. Hitt So it pays to take showers, you know? [laughs]. Panousis It was—it was—a very unique partnership. I had—I had a lot of years at AT&T and we had lots of partnerships with companies in the universities, but generally they were—they were designed for very specific application, and generally they were tense, because the other companies are competitors and the universities really did what Charlie Reed said, “Give me the money and I’ll give it back, with 200, half the time,” and what was happening in this relationship is—is right from the beginning. in fact, the legislation you put together called out that this was a partnership, that there were certain rights that the company—AT&T had—to the intellectual property, which was truly unique. Hitt Mmhmm. Panousis And—and it made a big difference, because now we could get research support from two universities and we didn’t have to give up the intellectual property that was generated in the process of doing them, and that was really, a big—and big deal, and I—I still remember telling other people about that and they wouldn’t believe it. They said, “It couldn’t be, couldn’t be, couldn’t be.” In fact, some other universities said it was illegal, even though it was in the legislation [laughs]. Hitt Yeah, well, one university very distinctly [laughs]. Pynn Pete, I can remember you saying back then that you had—we were sitting together at the plant one day—you’d never had relationships with universities like this. This is unheard of. Hitt Well, a prevailing model at universities was that the industrial partner ought to throw money over a transom and come back in several years to hear what the university had done with it. Pynn Well, let’s not preclude that. Hitt And feel suitably proud, you know? Guess what, you know? When money is not terribly plentiful, the enthusiasm for that gets pretty darn scarce and the other—the other side is the intellectual property side. The university still does well out of this—and when you get to these partnerships, you know, my sense is that most universities want to control 100 percent and they end up with something about this big, and they think that’s better than having 20 percent of something this big, and I’ve never quite seen that point of view get you anywhere. Panousis And it’s interesting. In all the time we worked together, I can’t think of any single case where we had a serious disagreement about intellectual property. It just wasn’t that big of a deal. The people—people are paranoid about it. Hitt Yeah, it’s a principle, you know? Panousis It’s a principle. It’s a principle. Berridge I’ve had the pleasure of approving 12—more than 1,200 research projects. Dan, more than half of those with UCF. My—my case with UCF, USF, and UF. I can count on the digits—less than the digits on one hand—the projects we did not get to because of an issue over intellectual property, and when you—when you share that with an audience that—that has this perception that there’s going to be an issue, and you share well—wait a minute. We’ve done 1,200 of them with 400 companies, where we’ve put up over 56 million [dollars] to fund those projects—from Carter funds at UCF, USF, and UF, and we have more than 160 million [dollars] in corporate cash and in-kind at the time we do the project and more than a billion on top of that in downstream return to the university—to the companies, and yet in—in—in going on—about to finish 16 years, we have had really not had an issue on intellectual property, because the companies see it—that—well, this is unique. Our hometown university wants to help us. They’re not asking for the money back. Where is the value? And the value is the partnership with the company that creates more jobs, creates more intellectual value, and by the way—we’ve got an outside, investigator/researcher that’s showed there’s more than a billion returned to our local economy from—from this program. Holsenbeck Yeah, let me—let me just say that Randy had an awful lot to do with those languages and that we were able to translate into legislation, and the actual legislation that you’re talking about Peter, where that language about the IP was? Was part of the matching tax exception—matching grant program? And I always thought that pulling that off as a collective effort —taking advantage of really the goodwill of the company—the essence of that bill said that the Legislature would put aside another package of incentive moneys—not just the money that we were operating the Carter on the doing research with—but they put aside another pot of money that if Cirent[?] would take the tax-exemption that they were given under the incentive laws. That if they would take the taxes, they would have paid and send it over to the university, the State would match it out of that fund. So all of a sudden, both institutions were able to do really big things at once like our materials lab. Hitt Yeah. Holsenbeck That’s where out materials lab—to this day, seems one of the best in the southeast, maybe in the country—comes from. Pynn AMPAC [Advanced Materials Processing and Analysis Center]. Holsenbeck That’s right. That’s where… Berridge AMPAC. Holsenbeck That’s where USF’s—what’s it called? Center of Metrology? Pynn Center for… Berridge Center for Materials Research. Sam R., I think. Center for Materials Research. Holsenbeck So that was another, part of that whole deal—the tax-exempt matching grants that’s kind of gone away, because they don’t have any money to match it with anymore, but I always thought that was a—one year—in one of the later years, the Legislature decided to sweep together everything that they were funding for the High-Tech Corridor, because they all wanted to take credit for a big deal. So when they pulled together all the operational funds and showed the tax-exempt matching, there’s a line—and I forget what year in the budget—that shows something like 25-26 billion dollars. Charlie’s in California. So I cut that out, sent it to him, and said, “Charlie, if you’ve ever seen a bigger turkey in Florida, I want you to let me know.” [laughs] And he wrote me back and he said, “Nope. That’s got to be it.” It was a $25 million line-item in the budget that pulled all that stuff together one year. Berridge Help with the name—is it The Chronicle of Higher Education? Holsenbeck Yeah. Berridge Is that the right term? I believe both of you about the same time shared with me an article that our friend Charlie Reed crafted that appeared in there, where he took credit for the Corridor and—and explained his version of what it’s all about, and it’s—that’s pretty special, knowing where it came from. Holsenbeck Can I tell you one more quick[sic] story about Charlie? The first year was 950,000 and then it jumped a little bit and—we were looking for—in one of the years, we were looking for—I think it was another million and a half for each of us, and we wound up getting 1.7 million and USF got 1.5. So we’re down in the committee room where they are about to vote on it and make the decision. By the way, the Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, making this happen, under Speaker Dan[iel Allan] Webster, is Orange County School Superintendent—no. School Board Chairman Bill Sublette—he’s the Chairman of that committee. Pynn That’s right. I forgot that. Hitt That’s right. Yeah. Holsenbeck So Charlie comes up to us, with Kathy and me with his entourage—which is not unusual for Charlie—comes blustering and says, “I just took care of it. We’ve taken care of everything. You’re going to get a million and a half,” and Kathy and I looked at each other and said, “Charlie, you mean—million and a half each?” And he said, “Oh, no, no, no. just a million and a half.” I said, “Charlie, the bill’s about to come out. It’s a million and a half each,” and there was a five million appropriation for research, so we were going to get basically two-thirds of that money or—or close to it, and Charlie did not speak to Kathy and me for a couple of weeks after that [laughs]. Pynn It’s not nice to tell the Chancellor he’s wrong. Berridge By the way, the original funding—9—925—the original funding, UCF got 300 for corridor funds—corridor projects. USF got 300 and AT&T got 325. Ask him if he ever took the money. Lester Did you? Panousis Nope. Berridge No recurrent funding invested back in the corridor. Panousis We—we… Pynn Used it to run this Corridor center. Berridge Sixteen—privacy of this room—for 16 years, we’ve invested that money back into the corridor to help market the region as a high-tech region. That’s pretty special. Panousis The thing we—we needed from universities was the research. Hitt Mmhmm. Panousis We didn’t need the money. I mean, the money’s nice. We would have taken it, but if you, you know—if you think of the numbers just over the whole period time, we spent a little over a billion dollars. We were exempted, most of that time, for the 6 percent sales tax. That’s 60 million dollars. By giving up fairly significant piece of that—almost all of that—to the university that was doubled by the State to close to 120 million dollars that was shared between the two universities. That’s a lot of money. I still remember the time we were sitting there thinking about how to spend it [laughs]. That was tough to do. Berridge The results of that effort—not only the great research projects and the marketing comes to us by the way of Roger Pynn and Kerry Martine. It’s interesting when an organization outside of our state shares nationally the top technology regions in the country based on information from January of 2012 to August 2012, and I know if I were a better teacher or instructor, I’d have a better show and tell graph. I gave a speech this morning out at its—its—and I did the same thing to the audience, it—even the first row couldn’t see it, but what it portrays is… Pynn Randy, we prepare you better than that. Don’t you ever do that again [laughs]. Berridge What is portrays is the top regions in the country, and we’re number four, ahead of the Research Triangle and ahead of—of Austin[, Texas], and—and the major one is the number of high-tech job openings. A positive statement that our region —we’d like to have top talent come here as well as graduate from here. So it says Florida High-Tech Corridor. Hitt That’s neat. Holsenbeck That’s certainly a manifestation of grow, retain, and attract. Pynn And Dan—when—when you were going through that review of the expansion of the state funding, since it’s a history project—I’m not sure, Connie, that we have been able to—and if we have, Kerry [Martine] can take credit for it—accurately give you a timeline of the progression of the funding. I think it would be very helpful to have. Maybe we can work with someone. Holsenbeck We have it. We—it’s—we had to go through digging it out, But yeah. We can show you the bills and the amount of money each time. Pynn So you see, it wasn’t just a one-time thing. We—if it had just been for the initial bill, that provided people that the research they needed, we’d have been a one-hit wonder and this would—none of us would be here today, but this was about the evolution of partnerships, and—and—and John realized very quickly afterward, we had something here. Once he pulled it off with AT&T, he says, “Hey, you know, we’ve got a good deal here. We can help other people,” and that led to the MGRP. The idea that we can create research projects on an ongoing basis. Bringing companies on campus to do it, and—and having them kick the tires of young students—as their graduate students, as their research partners. Just to—just to… Berridge Give M. J. Soileau some credit for helping devise the program. Pynn True. Berridge And working with the folks at USF in making sure the programs mirrored each other. Hitt Yeah, it’s been interesting watching all that, you know, even with M. J. The first response is, “How do I get part of that money?” [laughs]. “How do I—how do I get my share—my fair share of the money?” And then it evolves. You see people start to understand, “Oh, there is no share—fair share. It’s all money that’s there for a purpose.” “How do I get to be part of the purpose?” is really the—the question to ask, and if you—if you—I think if you conceive of it properly, it’s money that attracts business leaders to the campus and incents faculty members to work with them. The big complaint you still hear today is, “How do I get the faculty to work with industry?” Or “How do I get industry to work with faculty?” Well, you put some money on the table to do good things and you—you—you get a little entrepreneurial interest. Which is what we’ve done, and Pete, you’re, you know—you—without you in all of this, I don’t think we’re celebrating anything today, but that’s basically, you know, between the Legislature and Dan’s good influence there, and the leadership we’ve had from Peter and Randy. We—we’ve created a self-perpetuating cycle at this point. Virtuous cycle. Berridge This is a small world we live in. What are the odds that we’d have this conversation today, and the new VP[Vice President] of Engagement<a title="">[2]</a> at FIU [Florida International University] wanted to set a meeting and the only time we could do it was before this meeting, and her predecessor was promoted to Provost in Virginia, and so Mark [B.] Rosenberg lost his focal point of cloning our corridor in his end of the state. Hitt Mmhmm. Berridge So the new person is on board, and the only time we can meet is right before this meeting, and she said, “I apologize. I know you’ve been through this. I know you’ve come down here to meet, but we’re basically starting over would you”—Roger’s about to die—“would you mind sharing with me again all about the corridor? How you got started? How you’ve done? What you’ve done?” And I said “Well, thank you. You’re getting me—getting me warmed up for a meeting with President Hitt, Peter Panousis, and the rest of the team.” I said that it’s going to take more than a half an hour to explain the length and breadth of what we’ve—what we’ve done. So honored by the compliment again from Mark Rosenberg that he still wants to figure out how to make it happen. Hitt Yeah. Pynn And that’s one of the questions that Connie’s had is, “Can this be exported to this equation?” Hitt Yes, it can be, but you need to have a good understanding of the model and you gotta have to have a… Pynn Peter. You’ve got to have a Peter. Hitt A business leader. Yeah. Otherwise, you—you can write it all up and everything… Berridge We’ve suggested to Mark, you know, a couple of companies down there that could be—could be the patron that—that Dr. Panousis and Sarah McGeer was to us. Panousis You know what’s curious is in Silicon Valley, the normal sense of business is that they deal with universities. That’s just what you do, particularly with Stanford [University] and other universities. It might not be… Hitt Guess why? It works. Fred Turner. Panousis It works. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Hitt Fred—as a young man I was vice-president of the TCU [Texas Christian University] research foundation and he served on our advisory council, and I got to sit and listen to Fred talk about how—he didn’t phrase it this way—but he started Silicon Valley. He came back after World War II, he had seen [Massachusetts State] Route 128 outside Boston[, Massachusetts], he—he knew what had happened there, and he said, “We could do that here,” and he proceeded to do it. He was then Dean of Engineering at Stanford, became Provost and—and really, I think it is—I think if you had to pick some sort of high-tech industrial heroes, Fred would be right up at the head of the pack. Panousis So there must be some in South Florida. Hitt Yeah. Panousis You know, there have to be. Man, they just need to be found [laughs]. Lester Can I ask a question a question about that? Do you see the High-Tech Corridor as being more similar to Silicon Valley? Or what—what has it added to the—to the growth of the high tech industry that’s different from Silicon Valley? Hitt That’s a good question. I don’t know the inside of Silicon Valley well enough probably to answer —to answer—to answer in a well-informed way. Pete, what—do you? Panousis I think that—and I don’t know if I have an answer, but—but I think what happened there is they got to a critical mass that we never quite have gotten to. Hitt Yeah, yeah. Panousis And there were so many companies doing the same kind of work that people were just spilling out of each, setting up additional companies, and every new idea was a new company, and it just got to a level where it was just running by itself. Now we’ve got to that point. Or haven’t gotten to that point. Hitt We may have more self-conscious direction at the university level. It may have become just auto-catalytic at Stanford, because of that process you’re talking about. We’ve taken a view that really says that the university is the agency that will help this happen in—in—in the region, and maybe I’m not expressing it well, but I think we—we have tried to see the university—the—the—the metropolitan research university as the equivalent of the land-grant university—the 21st century equivalent of the land grant. Where we combine the generation transmission application of knowledge, and it’s a social agency, if you will, that—that helps companies. Berridge John, your leadership—UCF’s leaderships and its partners—Medical City is going to be, in my humble opinion, the catalyst that’s going to give us—give us that next boost in terms of comparing our corridor—our region—to Silicon Valley. If you reference the facts that we shook our heads when we said, right after World War II—after World War II—having been there, like a couple of people in this room, but very young—look at the time span, and yet, UCF is now celebrating its 50th, we’re celebrating our 16th as a—as a corridor. We have a lot of room to grow, and despite all the issues in terms of Florida Poly[technic University]—when they call us—Rob Goddell and team called and asked for help in terms of focus, as you and I discussed—to—to give them some ideas in terms of what they are going to focus on in terms of a curriculum. That’s pretty special, but it’s part of this continuum of our region catching up with—maybe even surpassing—Silicon Valley. The university is still—if you notice, the university is still centering to that happening. Holsenbeck The—it seems to me that one of the—well, I think it’s—there are two very strong forces at work here that you’ve got to—have to—even think about duplicating anywhere, and we all travel and we all have got our canned speeches on the High-Tech Corridor, and what it means, and, you know, the advantages of it, but there are two things that the High-Tech Corridor has proven, and both of those are related to one word, and that’s “partnership.” First of all, it’s just a spirit of partnership. It’s mutually beneficial. We’re willing to put on the table and sacrifice a little bit—or “comprise” maybe is a better word. You do the same thing and we’re both just going to just flourish after that, and then the second part of it is—to reinforce what we’ve said—is that I don’t think you can just be given some money. Other places in the state have tried to get an appropriation. They’ve said they couldn’t do it, okay? What they’ve got to have though, again, is this, again, spirit of partnership from a very large organization, or at least relatively large, so you can have an anchor and tie. Let me—let me do one more. I can’t help the opportunity for these political—but taking the word “partnership,” okay? The High-Tech Corridor created something in the Legislature that has never, ever happened. Not before and definitely not—not since, according to what I’ve been told. The second year of the funding, the money was eliminated at some point during the process, and we have to earmark it out of the budget. So we asked two people to sponsor the amendment to add it back on the floor during the final debates of the bills, okay? Way over here on the left side, one of the most loyal Democrats of all time, is Rep[resentative] Alzo Reddick, and way over here on the right side—so far right that he told me one day that Dan introduces me on the right side of the stage, I’m so far right he thinks I’ll fall off—that person was [Thomas] “Tom” [Charles] Feeney [III], who was going to be Speaker of the House. So in front of the entire legislative body, outspoken Democrat, outspoken conservative Republican, stand together and offer an amendment to do this. There was not a single negative vote that I recall, and it was the spirit of partnership that has permeated this project all the way through, which I think has made it successful. Hitt Yeah, support for the university, for the community. Holsenbeck Yeah. Hitt An effort to—to work together to build something. Holsenbeck And until the medical school came along, and probably now—I’ve always used in my conversations that, you know, the High-Tech Corridor is the perfect example of what John Hitt means about being America’s leading partnership university. Lester Did the fact that the Corridor existed and had been so successful—was that instrumental in helping to bring high tech industry, or laying the foundations for… Hitt I don’t know. Certainly the successful experience lent credibility to the university and our administration. I don’t know that people drew—the people who were making the decisions—I don’t know that they drew lessons from the corridor operation, but the fact that we had done it and it was successful probably helped. Holsenbeck Well, I—he—he’s being modest, because I know in some of the conversations we had on the medical school in the Legislature that I had—and I can name three or four of them—very powerful members—to say—if John Hitt says that this is good and it’s going to work and it’s a partnership, then that’s all I need, and that’s the truth. One of them had two children to graduate from here, so I’m not making those names up, but I think it did have maybe more then you want to give it credit for is this spirit of partnership that we’re known for. Pynn It was certainly a track record by that time. Holsenbeck Oh, yeah. Pynn And I don’t think there’s been a person in the [Florida] Governor’s Mansion since this happened who hasn’t wanted to point to the Corridor in some way or another at the start of every year. Holsenbeck Mmhmm. Hitt Mmhmm. The disappointment that I think we all share to some extent is that is hasn’t been replicated elsewhere yet. There have been attempts. Pynn Right. It’s good to hear they’re still committed to it, Randy, and we need to offer to—to give them what help we can. Hitt Yeah, but, you know, part of the problem is you’ve really got to have industry. You’ve got—and you’ve got to be able to attract industry into it. So, you know, people will say the “I-4 Corridor.” Well, why don’t we have an “I-10 Corridor” or whatever, you know. Well, if all you’ve got’s a highway, you know, you’re not really—you’re not going to do this, and—and it’s still the case that some people think if they can just got an appropriation, they can have something. Well, they’d have the money, but that alone would not give them what they’re looking for if they’re trying to replicate the corridor. You’ve got to have—you’ve got to have that employer who’s really committed, and you do have to have a critical mass of administration and faculty who understand partnership. And, you know, I think there’s still too many people in universities who just want to be given money to go do what they want to do. That’s nice, and, you know, we’ll all take that, but it’s—it’s not going to give you—an organization like the corridor. Panousis You know, the partnership between the universities was also important—now three in the partnership. Yeah. I still remember a meeting—I was trying to recall what the background for it was—but Governor Lawton [Mainor] Chiles[, Jr.] was at the meeting so it must have been ’90… Berridge ’96? Panousis ’96-’97, and we had just come from one of our customers, making the PalmPilot at the time, and we did something for them special, and we invited him to come to the meeting. He did, and I remember in his presentation, he made a comment that I thought was really interesting. He says he’s never seen two universities actually work together like the two—those two—UCF and USF. Pynn There’s no question. Panousis And it was really interesting, because he—he was amazed that it could happen. I didn’t know any better, so I assumed it could happen [laughs]. Berridge An example of the partnership—and I’ll share with you—Kerry Martine provided that. Gentleman pictured there—in ’99, we partnered with—very small company. He now has a billion-dollar drug. He now also is the new VP of Research [& Innovation]<a title="">[3]</a> at USF, and in the first meeting with him, he said, “If we have an incubator company that wants to locate in Orlando, is there any reason we couldn’t figure out how to locate them in M. J. Soileau and Tom O’Neal’s incubator at UCF?” And I’m sitting there going, “Ah.” [laughs] What a burden has been lifted in terms of—this is a prime example of partnership that he would reach out. Hitt Mmhmm. Berridge And I said, “Not that I’m aware of,” and he said, “You think they would agree that, if they have a company in—in their incubator that would want to move to Tampa, that it would be okay if we housed ’em?” And I said, “I think we can make that happen.” Pynn Now, what son of a Mississippian says… Berridge Yeah, son of a Mississippian. So there’s—Dr. Paul Sanberg, and thanks to Kerry Martine, who’s going to give that to me by email, I’m going to send that to Paul and say, “There’s a picture of you from the late ‘90s you might like to have for your file.” A good partnership. Pynn They had been doing anything they could to prevent them to leave, and so would we 20 years ago. You know, we hadn’t quite gotten to that point. I think the—the mantra of leader: leave your ego at the door. The idea that whatever can benefit Tampa, can benefit Orlando, and vice versa, has been such a powerful philosophy. People have gone out of their way—you like to tell the story of Lynda—thinking over in Brevard County… Holsenbeck Weatherman. Berridge Weatherman. Pynn The Economic Development Director over there, risking probably, at the time, her—her job to put was it 500 or 5,000 dollars into a sponsorship of an event that was going to take place in Tampa? Berridge 5,000. Pynn 5,000. People were thinking, Was she crazy? Berridge We indicated we would help her with something downstream. That was understood, but yeah, that she was willing to do that. Pynn She understood that she might benefit down the road from it. We… Hitt Yeah, that whole notion that a win anywhere in the corridor in a win for everybody is hard to… Berridge We called Dr. Paul Sanberg, who’s a very respected scientist—founder of the National Academy of Inventors, and we have a project we’re working on that is very large in scope—almost as large as one of Peter’s projects—and we needed some initial funds to put on the table to get the company’s attention. So I called Paul and I said, “I know that our team is over about a week before this phone call to show support for a major project in the Tampa area, and so we have one, by coincidence, a small world. We have one a week late, as big as that one. If we can merge our matching funds at UCF and USF, we can make a better case,” and he said, “Make it happen. What are you putting on the table?” I said, “We’re going to make a commitment of 250,000 a year for five years, because of the size and scope and potential of this project.” He said, “You want to do the same thing from USF?” I said, “Yes, sir.” He said, “You know, it doesn’t matter where the graduates work, as long as they’re working here. So the fact that you’re going to give an opportunity for some of our USF students to partner with—you know, professors to partner with UCF on a project for a company that happens to be located in the eastern end of the Corridor, our students are going to be benefited, so make it happen.” That’s partnership in its, you know, 15-16 years in the making. Holsenbeck You know, there is another activity that a lot of folks don’t participate in or know much about—and I’ve always thought this was one of Randy’s brilliant creations—and that is what he called the “Core Team” and the Tuesday morning telephone calls. Every Tuesday morning, I’d say there are 25-35 people throughout the corridor who talk about what is going on in the corridor and by the end of that conversation—what reminded me was Lynda Weatherman—you have got Brevard County willing to go over to Tampa to participate with a Tampa Bay partnership. You have got 4-5 groups agreeing to come together to put money on the table to do a booth talking about the photonics industry and sending it to the west coast. You’re doing things that the state as a whole has not been able to get communities and EDCs [Economic Development Commissions] and workforce boards and all those things to do. Pynn We are doing things every Tuesday morning on that little pajama hotline that the state has never been able to do. It’s amazing to see the number… Holsenbeck Yeah. Berridge This is a 16-year document… Lester Yes, I have the whole box. Yes. Pynn She has—she has a box. She has Steve Burly’s collection of every single one of those. Berridge It’s an old AT&T thing. Peter and I learned years ago what is bolded in here, including the names of the people, as well as what is in there is what was covered the previous weeks. You know, who attended and what was discussed and it becomes the agenda for the next meeting so you can continue. Lester And I can tell you that is very helpful to a historian who is reading through this. Pynn You know, we need to get you in touch with Burly by the end of this, because the fact that he is collecting means he has got a lot of knowledge. The—what I can remember as an example of that is we achieved corridor-wide participation in the [International] Paris Air Show<a title="">[4]</a> on the telephone on a Tuesday morning. Had never happened. Berridge Because Lynda Weatherman wanted to do it. Pynn That is right. Payback. Berridge In Brevard—and so we got Tampa Bay saying, “Yeah. We will do that with you. We will be there with you, in terms of presence and money.” Pynn She helped those people earn over 5,000, and now we have an annual basis, participation to market this area’s aerospace. Hitt What a silver-tongued devil she is [laughs]. Berridge She is. She chaired the Federal Reserve Board in Florida in Jacksonville—amongst her many talents. Also nationally, she’s a pretty sharp lady—chaired our workforce committee. What is unique is we start with this in ‘96-‘97—something like that—and we couldn’t get folks to attend, mainly our economic development partners, for a 4 o’clock call. So, once a decade, I am going, Why don’t I have it at 7:45 in the morning? They can’t claim they are out working, selling deals, and entertaining prospects as 7:45 on the morning. So half of the folks on there are on their drive time. We ask them to be on mute and make sure they drive carefully, but every Tuesday morning, unless it’s a holiday week—and Dan, you are on every one of them—7:45-8:15, and it is over at 8:15—and it’s over at 8:15, because everyone on there has a full-time job doing something else. Pynn A lot of spouses across this corridor who wonder what is going on a Tuesday morning, if you don’t have a call, what is happening? You are just sitting here drinking your coffee, reading the newspaper. You are supposed to be on the telephone. Holsenbeck You know, I still think Roger and you and I have talked about this, but just for the purposes of conversation—that is one example of a critical activity to the corridor that’s not as glamorous sounding as the matching research. There another one—there is a tech path program that is done with… Berridge Dr. Jeff Mendell? One of Peter’s top scientists? Holsenbeck Jeff Mendell, one of Peter’s guys who is now in our physics departments that does this, and now going all over the place trying to get the other institutions and school boards and schools to learn about what it is to be in high technology, and another one—the Florida Virtual Entrepreneur Center. I mean, people don’t—Roger, I just don’t think the average person or even the average politician realizes how those three parts of what we do—the core team and the partnerships, the tech path and the entrepreneurial center—what a key element they are, and there is nothing—nothing anywhere in the state comparable to those three activities. Berridge Hunt[ing F.] Deutsch is the head of the [Florida] Department of Economic Opportunity, and I am honored to have known him from the mid-80s, when my daughter worked for him in the trust department, when he had the trust affirmative for SunTrust [Bank]. They were going to have a business portal they were going to launch. They didn’t know what they were going to do but they were going to launch it—a bit reckless, and I said, well, “Howard, we already have one. It is called the Florida Virtual Entrepreneur Center.” “What does it do?” I explained to him what it does, and he said, “Why do we want to launch one of our own? Why don’t we just use yours and you will have a link and we will call it a state program?” And I said, “It is called a ‘Florida Virtual Entrepreneurial Center’ on purpose. It’s all 67 counties are up and running.” Hitt They didn’t know it. Berridge They didn’t know it, but they do now. They had a webinar earlier this week—explained the program, so if you are entrepreneur and want to start or grow a business that won’t cost you anything to use it, and every county is there. You just punch in a county. Roger showed them too. He’s better at show and tell than I am. Pynn This morning we got the monthly—a monthly report on the activity. Berridge Fourteen thousand. Pynn Last month, 13,629 visits for all 67 counties, and even though it was a holiday month, that is 3.6 percent—6.5—3.65 percent increase month over month, and out of state, 2,700 from out of state were checking in on that, and out of country, more than 500 people visited to find out what’s available, what’s going on in Florida, “How can I do business here?” It’s an amazing thing.it continues to grow. Kerry, what’s the month to month on that? It’s just amazing numbers. Martine Yeah, they have continued to grow since. Probably about 4,700. Berridge The addition of the other counties. Give Kerry Martine the credit, if you would, because when you see it that is her creativity. Hitt She is the walking history. Pynn Okay. Berridge Alright, and the other piece is—though its corridor funded. Doesn’t cost the entrepreneur to use it. Doesn’t cost—like Gray and Robinson, our attorneys—they can post that they are available help entrepreneurs and it doesn’t cost them anything to post. Now, if you would like a little better listing, thanks to Roger Prynn and Kerry Martine—or if you want to sponsor a section you can certainly do that. So when you think of Miami coming up with 10—excuse me—with $7,500, you think of Jacksonville, Duvall County, coming up with $7,500. So we raised about $85,000 last year, before we added all the other counties to offset the cost of what we’ve been putting in—in terms of the cost of people work it in on a daily basis. One of whom is a UCF graduate student named Michael Zaharris, who is an OPS [Other Personnel Services] employee reporting to Tom O’Neal. So again, it is a stateside program housed at UCF. Thank you, Dan. Lester I have to say that I think that kind of retaining and growing of businesses is perhaps one of the most important parts of this. I am a Southern historian and I look at the economy across the South, and most of what I see is buying jobs, not retaining them in the long run. I have been interviewed a couple of times by the Federal Reserve [Bank] in Atlanta[, Georgia], about some things I have written about that, and I always say that the South is missing the boat when they keep buying jobs. Berridge Your pride is our pride and getting a call from the economic development organization for Atlanta—the greater Atlanta area—looking to make a corridor from Atlanta and Athens[, Georgia], and they call and say, “How did you do it? What can we do? Can you clone it? Do you mind if we clone it?” And I said… Pynn And that is just one of them—one of many. We have had a lot of calls from around the country, from out of the country. I’ve heard Randy talking to people from Thailand. Berridge From Puerto Rico; the lead attorney for the [Colorado] House [of Representatives] and [Colorado] Senate from the State of Colorado; a co-ed from [Harvard University John F.] Kennedy School of Government wanting to start a high-tech region around Syracuse [University]; Yankton, South Dakota. Are you familiar with Yankton, South Dakota? Lester I am not [laughs]. Berridge Well, I get this call from Charlie Gross—the then-mayor of Yankton. “We would like to start a high-tech corridor between South Dakota State [University] and University of South Dakota.” He said, “Roughly the same geography, two universities you had two to start. How did you do it? And what do you do?” Pynn A lot more cows than people. Berridge Yeah, and I spent three calls—total of six hours—keeping track of these things with Charlie Gross. I get a call from the Head of Economic Development for the Cherokee Nation—they wanted to—my boss is looking at me. Does he look at you like this? Holsenbeck All the time. Berridge All the time. He wanted to diversify their gambling establishment in this Cherokee, North Carolina. Okay? God bless him, and I said, great, and I said “Where do you live, by chance?” Because I know where the gambling establishment is—I never been there—but I know where it is, and he said, “Well I—you probably don’t know it—but I live south of [U.S. Route] 74 on [North Carolina State Road] 28,” and said, “Where?” And he told me, and I said, “Well, if you come about 6 miles further south and turn onto Trailing [Oak] Trail, that’d be where we have a place.” “No kidding?” So I struck up a friendship with a Head of Economic Development at the Cherokee… Pynn So Randy’s now a player at the Cherokee Casino. Holsenbeck Isn’t that a hoot? Berridge Yeah. Pynn Yeah, sure. Sure. Hitt Do you remember the old TV program Get Smart? Yeah, but do you remember the episode where they had the Indians who were—they had a nuclear-tipped arrow—coming out of a teepee? Berridge Out of a teepee? Hitt Yeah, yeah, and the woman, Smart, says “That is the third-biggest arrow I have ever seen.” [laughs]. Berridge Too much. Pynn You know, you talk about—Connie, you talked about the path here versus buying jobs, and I know that one of the questions you said you were interested in exploring was the role played in the GrowFL[: The Economic Gardening Institute] program, the economic partnership program, and I think—Dan, that goes then along with the others you mentioned as—while there were folks that knew we were behind the kind of a catalyst to get that moving, they don’t realize just what it has done. There are a lot of companies out there that are really benefiting from the kind of counsel and advice they are getting to help them get to the next stage. Berridge That is the creativity of this university and Tom O’Neal, and convincing as he is to get Roger Pynn and yours truly, and Ray Galley and Amy Evancho to go to Cassopolis, Michigan. Pynn Cassopolis. Berridge In November, and then he doesn’t get to go. He is still here in the middle of November—to… Pynn He was the lucky one, as far as I was concerned Berridge Smarter guy. Well, he has a doctorate from here and an MBA [Master of Business Administration], what do you expect? Mrs. Lowe has this wonderful facility—of 2,600 acres that housed 14 farms, knob them together, we get all the farmhouses—she was staying in a nicely redone farmhouse—to you can stay in their center, and what they share is economic gardening in Littleton, Colorado. The experience that community has of losing a 10,000-employee Lockheed Martin plant, and they decided that never again would they be dependent on one facility for their livelihood. So they started by building their own, and so the orchestration of that is the platform for this GrowFL program. You need to ask how did Mr. Lowe made his millions? Kitty litter. Oh, oh, I should have let her answer. You know she has 2,600 acres around Arcadia, Florida? Special. Lester Yes. Pynn She is a cool lady. Very devoted to what we started. Berridge So the idea that we could bootstrap our own companies—and one of our own council members, George Gordon, went through it. Said after—in fact, we’ve used him—as you know, Dan—thanks to your leadership in the House and Senate to give testimony. He said, “Randy, not since my days at Annapolis[, Maryland] have I been grilled, and even there, as much as I was grilled by people who knew more about my business than I did.” As a way of taking another look at how you might be a better business person and make your company more profitable. Pynn You know, I went through the CEO round-table portion, and I was amazed to see folks who had very sophisticated companies. Particularly one of them has a company fella—has a company called Alinea. They are an Internet services commission. Brilliant guy, and he was eyes wide open in that process, sharing around the table the program is facilitating, and one day, he stopped in the middle of it, got up and left, because he had gotten the answer he needed. We didn’t see him for two months, until he had finished implementing it. Berridge It’s amazing when you can see what happens in our state. When our Governor,<a title="">[5]</a> who had received some poor advice last year, vetoed the program that we were told by his staff he was going to approve, and then, within two weeks of the veto in The Villages, was out in the state espousing the virtues of supporting small states, two companies. We need to do more of that, and so we had some folks whisper to his team to whisper in his ear, “You just vetoed the least expensive program in the state that has created the most jobs for the least amount of money,” and so we think that impetus, as well as some excellent work on Dan’s part and the team—two million? Two million in refunding this year. Corridor funded it, and then we get a call from Jennifer Thompson, who’d been told by [Orange County] Mayor [Teresa] Jacobs that they found some extra money in Orange County, and Jennifer didn’t want to invest in sidewalks. She wanted to invest in companies. I heard about this GrowFL program, and I’d like to learn more about it. Tom O’Neal took a meeting with her, made a friendship—$50,000. For a while, that $50,000 was happening. We, of course, went to the [Orange] County on the north to say to Randy Morris and his mentee, Bob Dallari, who is now chair of Seminole County—just reelected—that this is going to happen in Orange County. So Seminole County said, “Well, we want that too,” and they put in $50,000 to help this program, to match our $50,000 that we put in to keep it alive last year, and now, it is obviously going great guns this year, because the State has seen fit to invest in it. It is run out of UCF, but it’s a statewide program. Holsenbeck These things are good examples of what you can do with discretionary funds under enlightened leadership, and when people talk about—they want to reproduce the corridor or try to expand their operations or activities—we do have a foundation that nobody else in the state has. Nobody else in the state has been able to get or sustain. Randy gives you an example of how I think he very wisely has used a lot of these funds that uses them as incentives or matches or initial investments, but the truth of the matter is: without those dollars, he could not do that, and it is very hard for others to get that same hold. I don’t think today we could do that. With the current economic situation and the current political leadership. I don’t think we could do it. Berridge We’re a 501(c)(6) in the State of Florida with a fairly substantial budget by comparison. How many employees do we have? We are all consultants to the enterprise. Hitt Oh, I see. Berridge It is the most cost-effective way of running it. The idea that you would have a corporation set up to do these things, as we talked in ‘96—where does the money reside? It resides at the two universities. Well, three, because we have been able to get some one-time funding on occasion from UF, and hope to remedy that, and get David [P.] Norton, their new VP of Research—said it is their number 1 priority, and he is going to make sure Bernie says it is their number 1 priority to get recurring funding at UF for corridor funds, but the funds reside at the university, because if they transferred them to the corridor, a private corporation, you have a red flag. You have a target. Oh, by the way, having a county organization at AT&T, here’s—excuse me—I have really good people that did it, and I kind of showed up. The county thinks it is an expense, but the university managing it through their existing processes—both in county and the auditing, the corridor doesn’t have to incur that expense; therefore, we can use more of our corridor funds to do the matching projects that Dan just talked about, but you know—see, I don’t trust there. We have been doing this—finishing 16 years. You are chronicling it. How many issues have we had over the spending of funds in that many years? Holsenbeck Except for your travel budget? Oh, excuse me [laughs]. Berridge My travel budget. Saks takes me to Dallas later—later this week, and you are right. It’s been an experience. Holsenbeck We just… Berridge You told me. You tell them about that. Hitt He told me he wanted to come on a commission of colleges. I warned him, “Do you have any clue what you are getting into?” Berridge “You have a clue what you are getting into?” I said, “No, but I have got some real goods friends who can help.” The idea is that the university has trusted its volunteers, as well as consultants, as well as team members, to do the right thing, to spend the money in the correct fashion. The majority of the funds are spent on the matching grants project. People say, “You have an organization. It’s got what it does and so…” it is really like an “ad hoc-racy.” We come together, we address an issue, address the problem, put some resources to it. By the way, we thought we created that term—you are a historian—we found out. We did some checks. I think Roger did it—it was created—somebody came up with it in ’72. Hitt “Ad hoc-racy?” Berridge An ad hoc-racy. Hitt It was not a compliment. Berridge No, right, but we come together, address an issue, find some funds, get some other people who have some funds, do it, and move in. Holsenbeck We did. Randy and I in the last year requested an audit, because with all the things that keep popping out, they finished the audit, having given us a written report. There are no questions, not management statements, any negatives. Berridge She asked for a little more in terms of elaborating on why we are putting money into the GrowFL program, and I think we can fix that. So I got a hold up Fran Korosec, and said, “Fran, I need a little more information on the use of corridor funds.” Immediately fixed that. Holsenbeck I have to confess: I did not know it at the time. I would like to take credit for it, or give us credit for it, but using that term attract—attract implies recruiting public relations, advertisement things that you—a lot of things you can’t do with state-funded money, because the original appropriation has that word “attract” in it. Randy is exempted from some of the regulations. For instance, he can do things with state money that we can’t that relate to meetings and conferences. I wish we could say we were that smart in the beginning, but it just worked out that way. Pynn I always said you were that smart. Lester Since you are talking about funding—I have been teaching a class this semester in U.S. economic history. Divided my students into groups and each group did a project, and one group did a project on the High-Tech Corridor. So that way did their presentation today—and I said, “I’m coming…” Berridge No, no. wait a minute. Excuse me—we are having this conversation today. I had the conversation with the FIU lady and now your class… Pynn Randy is writing a book on small worlds. Berridge I have a book on small worlds. I should work harder on this book, but really? This is… Lester Well, they gave a very nice presentation, and after it was over, I told them I was coming to this meeting and I said, “If you had a question to present to this group, what would you ask?” And they thought about it and then they asked, “What is the role of venture capital in the Florida High-Tech Corridor? Is there a role, and if there is, what is it?” Berridge It is us. We are unique venture capitalists. Pynn We are venture capital. Berridge That is what we are, and the uniqueness is we don’t ask for our money back. Find a venture capitalist that will do that and not ask for their money back and I would like to see which asylum the gentleman is with. Lester Well, I think they were asking generally about private venture capital. Pynn Well, I think there are two sides to that, Randy. We do want. We are very supportive of the venture capital organizations, the Florida venture… Berridge Florida venture—we are supportive even though—if I may? Lester Mmhmm. Berridge They changed their model about a year ago, and said we will no longer support small companies, and as gently as I could, I am saying, “Well, you may just have lost a sponsor.” Because we can’t be attached to that regimented approach to lunacy of not supporting your livelihood going forward. It doesn’t make any sense. They changed the administration. They changed the board. Lester And this is? Berridge The Florida Venture Forward, and you will find the gentleman’s name on this list is now part of our Tuesday morning call. He called and said, “If I told you we’ve changed and have gone back to supporting small companies, can we come back to the fold?” I said, “Absolutely.” So… Hitt It could be an un—or under-developed part of what we do though. We really—that has probably been the thing we have talked the least about, and I am not involved day-to-day with this, so, you know—but if I could think of one area I could say we might do more in from my standpoint… Berridge Your students are very astute. Holsenbeck But GrowFL has that as one of its objectives, so we use our funds to help start GrowFL and support that aspect of their mission. Pynn But we have done, over the years, a number of things to support and expand venture capital flowing into the state. We hosted a group on the far western end that came here from around the country—I am trying to think of the name of it—but they go—they are actually an international group, and they go from market to market very quietly and find a sponsor like us to come in and show them what’s there. Hitt Yeah. Pynn We have been very supportive of the for—and I think you are really right. that’s an area that we—and this may be the time of us to step back and look and say, “What can we do?” Because it’s a one—we are two things. We get with our Central Florida Tech for or the Tampa Bay Tech for two issues: workforce, finding the town, and venture capital, and that is why Randy always says we are venture capital, because though we started with a mega-giant like AT&T as our partner, there are a lot of companies that are getting funding for that through that matching grant research program that otherwise it would have to come through a venture capitalist. Berridge May I compliment your students, number one? And number two, we have a pretty strong history of funding starving graduate and doctoral students. Twelve—excuse me—2,400 through our matching grants program over the 16 years, and Kerry is the keeper of that stat. We have two interns right now in Tom O’Neal’s shop helping us with economic impact studies that we do, but the question they have posed presents an opportunity for some corridor funding back to your organization and to them. I don’t believe as a state we do a good enough job of chronicling the venture capital invested in who, what, when, where, why, and how. Who are the venture capitalists investing in—in our state? How much? If we can capture that, but take it more than just venture. If I can expand their question, and have it friends and family starting with some crazy things I’ve done over the years, I have to admit, as well as angel funds, which I had that much money to qualify for that, and all the way to venture. Alright? And in doing that, they will get a better understanding of the difference in those categories and who they apply to, but more importantly, we may end up with a better study then we’ve ever had in terms of what is happening in Florida, and what can we do then to change the paradigm that we think exists of the folks that are in Peter’s category of having some megabucks and all? And why is he not investing in Florida, but in this—well, I know he’s investing in the Carolinas—but, the history we think we have… Hitt You are making a pretty good payment from the Cherokee Nation [laughs]. Berridge That is going to my church. What can we do to identify better why we think the folks that have some money to invest are investing it in the states and the companies in the states from whence they came? Okay, so… Hitt Well—or in California and New York or in California. I didn’t mean my comment to be at all critical of what we are or are not doing, but if I had to think of one area that we might be doing something in that I sort of thought—and heard the least about in discussions on the corridor—that is probably it. Berridge Right. That’s it. Right on target. Hitt And that might be an opportunity for us. Berridge You’re on the leadership board with some of the Metro Orlando EDC [Economic Development Commission] and some of the refocusing things they are doing. To have this study, maybe have it annually for them—for the EDC—critical. In terms of—it’s just not having major hunting in major boxes. It’s growing and starting and growing our own and having a better idea of the potential of investment capital, no matter what size. We would benefit from that. So compliment them, please and the astuteness of their question. Lester Well, I was somewhat shocked when they come up with that question. Hitt It’s a good question. Lester It’s a good question. Since you have brought up the subject of workforce as well, one of the things that struck me about the High-Tech Corridor as opposed to some other places, is the amount of effort that has gone into the partnerships to create a solid workforce that is going to do more than just put together widgets, but actually had make a contribution. So if you could talk about that… Berridge That’s from the golf—that’s from the golf course. We’re sitting on… Pynn A lot of things happen on the golf course. Berridge John goes—John goes… Hitt Some of them we can talk about. Lester Yes, I understand. Berridge John goes, “Let me get this straight,” and this is—gosh. This has to be 12 years ago? This was when Feeney was Speaker. He said, “You want to take some corridor money and invest it with the community—community—community colleges.” Yeah. I said, “Yeah, John. You want to be the number one metropolitan partnering university, and if you don’t help the companies that are in your backyard do a better job getting the technicians they need, and getting the technicians a chance to get a baccalaureate, you are not going to be as successful in the partner category as you could be, and when you think about the great relationships that exist between UCF and the State and community colleges, the idea of funding seven of the Associate’s Degrees—which is what we ended up doing with a little bit before we got the funding, thanks to Dan and Speaker Feeney—but the workforce money we have received with seven different state community colleges funding those Associate’s Degrees—that’s pretty special, and we put about an average of 150,000 into each one of them, with the caveat that the community—state college—community college would bring its industry to the table, define the need, develop the curriculum from what the industry said the need was, but then structure it in such a way that the graduate—should they elect to do so—could go on and get a baccalaureate. Now, I will give you an example and watch your facial expression. Volusia did the Modeling Simulation and Training degree. There have been 600 enrollees. Ask me how many graduates have graduated to date. Program’s about 4 years old—5 years old. Lester How many? Berridge Thirty. You see? You see that? And the individual—when I reacted the same way, I’m going, “Why did we put the money—why did we—what—with 30 graduates?” He said, “You didn’t ask the right question.” It goes back to your question in support of workforce. I said, “What?” He said, “Ask a different question.” He said, “Why don’t you ask me how many have jobs?” Light bulbs, light bulbs. He said, “All of them.” I said, “You are telling…” He said, “They are hiring them after they get their first year in. There is enough guts to the program that the corridor helped them devise, based on industry input to get enough that the industry hired them after they finish the first year.” Now I am going, “What happened to this idea of allowing the technicians to get a baccalaureate?” He says, “You’re helping the industry through the program that you funded. They can’t—they can’t get these—they can’t get enough of these technicians.” Panousis That goes back on—remember when you were looking for people? We could find engineers. We paid enough money to a company in California or wherever. We could not find technicians. We started some of the programs in community colleges. Berridge The first one—the first one—it was—and… Panousis We were paying a lot of money. We were stealing them from [Walt] Disney [World] and other companies, but there weren’t enough around to really fill it. Berridge It was… Panousis That was the most difficult job to fill was a technician. Berridge That was the first one. Pynn And that’s also why we started Tech Path. Berridge Tech Path. Pynn It was originally Chip Camp. Holsenbeck I had forgotten that. Berridge And… Hitt There’s a—there’s a thing in a book that really influenced me—Lester [Carl] Thurow’s book, Head to Head[: The Coming Economic Battle Among Japan, Europe and America]. He says that economists in Germany make more than they do in the U.S, and that is because the technicians in Germany make more. You know, the guys out on the floor who really make this stuff make more, and that’s a lesson we… Berridge Ben Noll… Hitt Need to learn. Berridge Head of the Interactive Game Academy. When he was number 2 at Electronic Arts or whatever his COR… Pynn Sacher. Berridge Right. When we asked him to be at the table to help determine the digital media Associate’s Degree at Seminole State College, he was Electronic Arts and had only technicians. Within about four months of that, he transitioned from Electronic Arts to FIAA, and he called—and I will count on you to clean this up if it makes your report—he said, “I will find the biggest crow in Central Florida. I’ll cook it any way you ask me to cook it, and I will eat it in front of any audience you choose.” He said, “I need technicians.” He said, “I want technicians to go through the UCF program, but coming in as technicians, because they offer a different perspective, but all are needed. That I need—I need the technician perspective, and then the baccalaureate, and then we will do some really neat things with them at FIAA.” But ask Ben Noll about that. He reaffirmed that, by the way, because he hosted our tech camp—the one that took place today, this morning. Kicked off for I/ITSEC [Interservice/Industry Training, Simulation and Education Conference] —the last one was at FIAA, which he hosted and he allowed me to tell this story, so that the teachers from schools all over the corridor would understand that their students. It’s all right to be a technician as well as then get your baccalaureate. Pynn So what that means is that everything we do is really workforce development. Every bit of it, and he who wins at workforce development wins at economic development. Berridge 2,400 students. Pynn Starting with kids in the middle schools and high schools. Berridge In fact, if M. J. or Tom were here, or Dr. Sanberg, or Tracy Swartz, or—or David—David Gordon—UF—or Shava Jackson-Carr—who runs a program there—they would tell you that, if a program gets to ask desk for approval—Peter is still one of our approvers—doesn’t have students built into it—hm? Pynn Doesn’t happen. Berridge Very rarely does it happen now, because the intent was—we are doing applied research to help a company, but we want students as a part of that process. Lester Excellent. Pynn Clark hasn’t asked any questions, have you noticed that? Clark Been wonderful. Berridge Oh, and I thought it was just Roger. Pynn Come on, we are so good at this, listen—he never—he never misses a chance to zing me a little bit. Hitt No, no. He’d never. Pynn I have a string today, John. I’ve got him under control. Clark I have—I have talked to Connie about this. Although it is called the I-4 Corridor, is there any limit to the north-south expansion? Hitt We actually changed the name from I-4, because it turned out, you couldn’t trademark the name of an Interstate [Highway], so it’s the Florida High-Tech Corridor now. It can be the XYZ Corridor if somebody else wanted… Clark But could you see—it keeping going? Berridge It’s in Gainesville. Hitt Well, you have to have business. Clark Even north of Gainesville or south… Hitt But you’ve got to have business and some kind of employment. It wouldn’t have to necessarily high-tech, but you—you need an employer base that you work with. Berridge We’ve used it as leverage. The governor has accepted it. Thanks to John and Bernie’s oratorical skills, witnessed by some folks in the room. We were a plank in the governor’s—one of eight—in the governor’s economic development plan, when he was governor-elect. If you look at the most recent report out of the foundation for—Florida’s Chamber Foundation—we are a plank in their 20 year plan to replicate this around the state. Mark Rosenberg, because of the friendship, because of working together, has said, “We would like to clone what you have done it, how you’ve done it, from Miami to Orlando.” Didn’t call it the I[nterstate]-95. He just simply called it—in fact, Roger and Kerry have been helpful in trying to get him to name it. The idea is rather than become one huge—we think it’s five city-states in our state regardless of what we try to do to make it a state. Why not build on that strength? We complement each other… Pynn We’ve tried. We’ve tried to—for instance, Jim, connect all the way to the Gulf Coast and become a South Florida version of this. We basically cover the central portion of the state, because we are a partnership of the three universities. We define it as you’ve gotta be in the primary service areas of the universities. Now, Florida, as a land grant, has this statewide mission, but they are—they have defined—was it Alachua [County]? And they added two counties. Berridge Bernie agreed—I know you are quick to go away there, but that didn’t go anywhere, but Bernie agreed that we would try to keep the idea of a corridor, so therefore it was just Alachua and Putnam [County] that we added, when we added UF, and that was their request. Hitt But you really do have to have an identifiable employment base that you are going to service and it can be high-tech, it can be something else. Clark So you are encouraging Mark to start his own, not join you. Berridge Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hitt Well, if he wanted to join us, that’s fine, but he—he stills needs a base of employment down there. He needs some companies he is serving who will work in partnership with him. Absent that he can get appropriations, you can get all the free consulting from us—from Randy—that we could possibly give, but he won’t have an organic entity. You’ve got to have the real partnership. You’ve got to have a Peter Panousis, who says, “I need the research.” You know? “I’ve got a series of problems that we can work on together,” and absent that, you’ve just got another university office. Berridge We got the first funding based on the success of what was done for Peter through the two universities. We got the second funding—based on skills that Dr. Holsenbeck—Dr. Holsenbeck has—we got the second funding because of Peter, but also because of what we did with the money the first year. We got the third round of funding—again, the confluence of Toni Jennings, Dan Webster—leadership, leadership, leadership, but you gotta do something with the money. So the third round of funding came because we had branched out by that time, and we had done projects, like we did with Peter. We had done projects, started to do projects with companies of all sizes. So what we said to Mark—Mark called about three months ago, before he lost Davina. He said, “We’ve been meeting a lot.” I said, “Yes, sir.” “We’ve been meeting a lot.” I said, “Yeah. I got it the first time.” He said, “All we’ve been doing is meeting.” I said—“Mark, you’ve got it.” I said, “Just do something. Just do it. Okay?” And he goes, “Okay. What do you suggest?” I said, “Mark, you got a research foundation?” “Yeah.” “You got $250,000?” “Yeah.” “Does M. J. have a research foundation at FAU [Florida Atlantic University]?” “Yeah.” “Got $250,000?” “Yeah.” “Do you have friendship with the University of Miami?” “Yeah. kinda sorta.” I said, “Do they have a research foundation?” “Yeah.” I said, “Then why don’t you each put up 250,000 and just start doing projects like we’ve been doing projects? And once you’ve demonstrated success, I think you’ll have a better chance of getting some matching funds from the state to start doing what we are doing.” Besides you’re gonna get your money back off they call them—recovering’s or loadings—or what’s the proper term when it is charged to the companies? Pynn Overhead. Berridge Overhead. Holsenbeck Indirect overhead. Hitt The other thing you just said that I think is really important is you encouraged him to talk to M. J., at least, M. J. is not Soileau’s; it’s Sanders, president down there at FAU. The people in the Legislature and other people in the communities like to see universities work together. So the fact that it isn’t just one university working in the community helps in generating financial and others helps. So I think that is really good advice, but they’ve got to have a few employers down there between that whole corridor from Fort Lauderdale, down to essentially Miami-Dade [County], they’ve got to have a few employers they could enlist to come in as part of this. Pynn I think, John, at this point, they haven’t quite figured out that part of the equation. All the schools are together, all the economic developers are together, and the private sector hasn’t been brought to the table yet. Hitt They won’t get anywhere ultimately until they do that. I mean, that’s the… Berridge Right. Holsenbeck What Randy’s advice was: we’ll get two or three private developers on board for that match. Hitt But they need to reach out and ask. If they look at their foundation, let alone if they got it, even without a research foundation—just the university foundation—they’ve almost certainly got a few employers who are in manufacturing or some research operation they can bring in and just say, “Look, give us your research folks to attend a few séances here, and let’s try to get this going.” Pynn We represent, for instance, Florida Power and Light [Company]. We have asked them to come to the table. I am sure they will. Through our partnership with MSW, we represent United Technologies [Corporation] and Pratt [&] Whitney. I was down there a couple weeks ago, and I asked one of the plant executives about how much research is done. He said, “Well, you know, we do a lot of primary research in this specific area” —which I am not allowed to tell you about or he would shoot me—but something very important, but he said, “We got applied research going on all the time.” So when we have this conversation, I’m going to put those people together for you. That’s the kind of partnership that I mean—jet propulsion. Hitt Yeah, you’d think they’d kill for that. But, you know, Peter, you shared with me years back that a lot of the most profit-enhancing, if you will, work that you did in cooperation with the corridor, I think, was—was really operational research. You know, the industrial—classic industrial engineering. Pynn Got to make it better. Hitt Yeah, and that—you could be operating—you could be working with a trucking firm. Holsenbeck Yeah. Hitt And—and have—have opportunities there. Berridge Yeah, that’s right. We did one at USF. Hitt Well, but, you know, you don’t have to be in necessarily a high-tech industry to have really good engineering and scientific impact. Holsenbeck You know… Panousis [inaudible] that work there. It is really very valuable. You have as many kind of operation with stuff moving through a production line—and I use the term “production line” loosely, because it could be chemicals, it could be medicine, could be anything, but things are moving and they are limited by processes. Understanding that process is very important, and that’s something universities spend a lot of time on and was very valuable for us. We got a lot of out of it. Hitt It’s one of the basic skill sets that IEs brings to the table. Pynn One of the things that I think will help them is to broaden their horizon. One of the things that has been very powerful for us is the fact that we focus on a number of sectors. We have limited it other than to attach it to the areas that the partner universities believed were their real strengths, where there was the potential for a cluster to develop, where we were—we had teaching and researching in other areas that matched the interest of some industry that’s already here—modeling, simulation, aerospace. When Bernie and the University of Florida joined, they said, “Hey, don’t forget agro-tech.” We hadn’t even—I don’t think any of us had heard the term before. You know? But there’s a lot of technology that mirrors life sciences in agro-business. Right now, the folks in South Florida are focused solely on life sciences. They have—they believe for whatever reason that because of Scripts, because of the success in bringing them down there that that’s the ticket to ride. A few years back, they were the “Internet Coast.” Holsenbeck Mmhmm. Pynn And they are looking—they are trying to figure out—they need to look to their strengths. Berridge That didn’t go anywhere. Holsenbeck No, they need to look… Hitt Still at the beach. Pynn They need to look to their broad, academic strengths, and say, “Who can we match this to in support?” Holsenbeck One—excuse me—just a quick answer to your question too, by using a quick example is [Central Florida] Research Park. A lot of people ask High-Tech Corridor and the Research Park to, “Come help us be successful,” and Research Park is—you could build a research park and set up an office. And, by that, I mean just the land and the infrastructure and set up an office, and that’s what the folks at Innovation Way [Corridor] have already contracted with us to do. Joe didn’t ever go out there, okay? Because somebody like Peter has to come in and express an interest in being there. So why—how do you start these kinds of things? Research Park is a good example. You have to have some tenants. Our Research Park owes its success not to the High-Tech Corridor, but to the simulation and modeling industry and the presence of the [U.S.] Military. That’s why it’s doing what it is. Clark Doctor, do you think that the involvement of the business community, going back 16 years, helped get other things approved, such as the medical school, the stadium? That is—you coming into contact with all these business leaders, and business community getting to know you, and the university coming to trust you guys? Hitt Yeah, I think that’s the way it works, it wasn’t say—if you think about either of the projects you mentioned, it wasn’t the nuts and bolts of them. It was the fact that they associated us with a successful enterprise. That we had been able to—helped organize something and get it really working, and they had seen the university as a competent organization Clark So is it possible that those things might not have happened if it hadn’t been for the initiative of the High-Tech Corridor ? Hitt Well, I suppose so. You know, I—probably less so with the—less so with the stadium, but when you ask people to get behind something as complicated as getting the medical school approved, probably the perceived success of the—of the High-Tech Corridor was a really… Holsenbeck I can give you one very solid example. Ken Pruitt, President of the Senate—we are trying to get FIA, and I go in and talk to Ken and explain—this was—this was this was, I think, the two years before he became president. He was Chairman of [the Committee on Appropriations], I believe, and I go sit down and talk to him, and I said, “You’ve heard about the FIA project and what we are trying to do there?” And maybe a few words changed, but this is exactly the way the conversation went. “Do I need to give you a white paper or do I need to put any other facts or anything together for you?” And that’s the absolutely truth. He looked at me and he said, “If John Hitt says this is what you’re going to do with the money, and this is what it will do, then I am okay.” That’s exactly what he said, and the FIA money was eventually in the budget. Hitt I forgot—Dan had told me that story at one point and I forgot it. There’s an important thing nested within that, that Dan and others at the table deserve credit on too. Universities sometimes get a bad reputation for taking money to do one thing and then doing something else with it, and that’s something that Dan and I have worked very hard to get all of our people to understand. You don’t do that. If you ever want to get money again from those people, don’t do that. You ask for the money to do X, you do X. If for some reason that can’t happen, you go back to them, and if need be and re-appropriate it, but don’t just take it under the supposition—promise—that you will do one thing and do something else with it. That’s deadly. Surprising how often it happens. Lester Well, I have a couple—couple of last questions. One of them is: where do you see as the challenges now that you are 15 years into this? Berridge The answer I was honored to give a couple weeks ago in a similar setting was—if you believe in partnership, and it really is a partnership and you put yourself on the line—so I called Dan last week, following a conversation I had with David Norton, and I said, “David, we’ve been trying through some very, very tough times to get even one-time funding, let alone recurring funding for—for UF.” But it’s still a major objective. The governor accepted 5 million per state university that wanted to adopt our program on the basis that the money would come to us, we would validate their program, and only once we validated their program, would the money be transferred to said university. In doing so, that would have increased our funding as well, which we would be very happy, when you think in terms of UCF running through the budget by January-February, which it has historically done, that would tell you that there are plenty of projects. Pynn Let me explain that—running—running through the research projects, not running out of money. Berridge The budget is appropriation is consumed by January-February, because we have that many great projects coming to the university to partner with corridor money to do the applied research. You forget was—if you had an amount more than we have now—we have taken budget cuts just as the university has, of course. Well, we could do more, if we had more in terms of funding, but we didn’t put it that way. What we put it was—establish the program for any state university that wanted to do what we were doing. We said in the process, our three—UCF, USF, and UF—we would like to see recurring funding initially at the 2 million level for UF. So that’s a major goal. So hopefully it doesn’t take the next 15 years to get that done. That would be a major goal. Hitt I think one of the things we have got to—to address—I think we have been doing so, but look around the table we are not spring chickens. And, I mean, even a young guy like Roger. You know? But, you know, this Friday—I guess it is I will be 72 years old. I don’t know how much longer I’m going to be President [of the University of Central Florida], but it’s not another 20 years plus, and Randy’s gonna want to be fully retired one day, as well Ben, and Peter already is—the rascal. So you know we’ve gotta—I think we’ve institutionalized things pretty well, but if you got a president who just didn’t understand or commit to partnership, it would be hard for this to survive. When you think about the five goals, and partnership, and how much we are invested as an institution in that concept and in practice, I don’t think it’s likely that the next president will not care about partnership. I think that will be a criteria in the selection process that we’ve set up, but that’s clearly an issue, you know? Does it survive the person—the people who put it in place and operating it and sustaining that for 16 years? Berridge Bernie is in the process of going on to his next vocation—or vocation or what have you—dentist, I believe. Researcher, as well as a dentist. Pynn I bet he doesn’t go back to pulling teeth. Berridge No? Hitt Oh, no. He’s going to be here in Orlando for a lot of this time. Berridge So… Pynn Is he? Lester Really? Hitt Yeah. Berridge A transition plan for a couple years now. Pynn With the research center? Hitt Yeah, in developing part health partnership—expanding, I think, on what they’ve got with Orlando Health and… Pynn Wonderful. Berridge We have shared it this morning from folks all over the country that are part of this. It’s a program—some nationally acclaimed teachers—we have been recognized through the tech camp tech path program as the best of the best in terms of the state of Florida for STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics] programs. I want the gentleman sitting to your right to close his ears now. We’ve had his leadership in trying to bridge a number of STEM programs at our universities and in our region. PRISM [Promoting Regional Improvement in Science and Math]—I don’t like the term—no matter how you succinctly you try to pronounce the first thing that comes to mind is not an optical device or an acronym for STEM programs. Anyway, He lets me say that each time we get together, but the idea of merging all of these STEM programs across the region to make them more effective would be a target for sooner than later in the next 15 years. It needs to happen. With limited resources, Roger’s team has put together every school superintendent. Thanks to Jim Shot and others across our—is there ten? Ten of them? Pynn Ten. Berridge Ten counties. So that’s the lynchpin you’ve got—that you’ve got the school superintendents that have come and gone. Bill Vogel—his replacement—Orange County—he’ll shoot me—just retired from Orange County. Pynn Ron Walker. Berridge Don’t tell Ron I did that. All this transition and they’re still together, but they’re only… Hitt Yeah, but his successor’s also a [UCF] Knight. Pynn UCF alumni. Berridge That’ll help. That’s right. Pynn The school superintendent in Orange, Seminole, Lake County. All three of ‘em. ’80, ’81, ’82 grads. Berridge That’ll help us keep that group together, but there is so much more in terms of potential. So how do we do a better job or orchestrating and sharing best practices? Hitt We take so much for granted. The ability to partner vertically in this—Central Florida. It’s not even the case in a lot of the rest of the state, where, you know, where you could say, we’re going to work with the schools, we’re going to work with the state colleges. Hell, there are parts of the state where they’re at war with one another. Not only do they not collaborate and cooperate, they’re fighting one another, and we tend to take that for granted here. Holsenbeck Yeah. Instead of working together in difficult times—without mentioning the topics, because I think it is like this right here, a signed docent—but the school system and the community colleges have to come to us for a joint endeavor, and that’s an example, and we all talked—the three government relations people—as we sat around the table and talked, and we said, “Do you know anywhere else—not only in the state, but maybe in the country—where this kind of initiative would come from the K-12?” So I think that’s something unique. I think one of the long-range goals is that we need to move with even more design and strategy to emerge as truly the statewide model, and help everywhere we can go and every corner of Florida to instill this program, and I think that should be one of our goals, and Roger knows this. I think he and Kerry—his organization—do a great job, but I still think, as I said a while ago, we need to double our efforts to make the policy-makers aware of all these other programs that are going on behind the scenes that are so vital to the foundation of creating that high-tech knowledge and the workforce to go along with it. Pynn And that to me—and I talk about this all the time—having this history is such an important tool for us in our toolbox to tell that story. So once we’ve chronicled where this thing’s been, it’s a lot easier to do that. Hit somebody over the head with a book. Holsenbeck And one last goal that I think would really help us—and I’ve been saying this for years—and it takes the M. J.’s and the faculty, but we need one huge hit, one great big project that the three institutions secure together. We need a high-tech SymTech or a high-tech something with hundreds of millions of dollars from the Federal level, and if we could ever get all those faculty members working together unselfishly on that level to come up with some sort of sharing program on that, I think that would be an indelible footprint on the map of what we’re about. Pynn And that brings up a point that we really haven’t talked about here. It ain’t for not trying that we haven’t gotten there. Behind the scenes, we’ve made some incredible efforts… Holsenbeck Mmhmm. Pynn To try and focus Federal energy and other grant-making activities on this region. We’ve come very close, and the great news is that out of that we have—I always look at it as part of that pajama hotline we have on Tuesday mornings—we have a bunch of people on the phone on Tuesday mornings who can respond like that—put together responses for opportunities. One of these days—we’re going to hit another... Holsenbeck SymTech was one. Berridge We’ve had two by the way. Guess that—from what company the two projects came from? Yeah. You’re good. Yeah. One of your graduates, and it was a wafer-polishing deal where we brought professors and students in from USF and UCF to work on. Hitt You know, there’s a good example too of what Roger said—the learning that takes place as you respond to these. We were a lot better in our attempts to bring Sanford-Burnham [Medical Research Institute] here than we were in our attempts to bring Scripts here. I mean we learned a lot from the near-miss on Scripts, and we were a lot closer on that then people knew. What’s the guy’s name that’s head of Scripts, who’s going to retire now? Pynn Richard… Hitt Yeah, and he was—when we were out at the airport before they left to go down south, he was asking if I’d come out and meet with his board the next week. We were—we were that close to getting that, but I correctly forecasted we would not. The farther they got away from us, the more his desire to be down there with the billionaires would take over, and that’s what happened. Holsenbeck The area also looked like La Jolla[, San Diego, California]. A lot of those people were coming… Lester Yes. Holsenbeck Because they wanted that environmental landscape. Hitt You know, we—we had the better offer in terms of what we could really provide for them, but there’s was a lifestyle component that was very important to them and I thought the closer they got to that—the farther they got from Lake Nona and what we were offering them, the less we were going to be happy with the result, and that’s indeed what happened, but boy, what we learned. Not just here at the university, but what Orlando and—and Orange County learned made a big difference in the next effort. Clark One thing that surprised me ever since we got involved in this was: in so many places, the local university is either the 500 pound gorilla—and I am thinking Yale [University] and New Haven[, Connecticut] —or else is an ivory tower that almost is ashamed of—Duke [University] and Durham[, North Carolina]—being in the community, and this is really very unique. This is—I—I can’t think of other—other cities where this has happened, where the local university… Hitt There are a few. Clark Has played such a role in the business community. Hitt Yeah, yeah. No, and that makes a big difference for us, in the support we can get for various things. Berridge That’s how we had University of Florida [inaudible] Dean of Engineering, a friend—I guess they’ve been together in a past life—with President [Bernie] Machen. Vermont called and said, “We’d like to join the corridor,” and said, “We’re honored.” On asking why, he said, “Well, there’s no way we can stay on the top 20 or have any hope of getting into the top 10 of engineering colleges in the U.S. if we don’t climb out of our ivory tower and get down and start partnering with companies to do applied research.” Not basic—applied research. Oh, by the way, his stats—and he knew it—70 percent of those companies in Florida “were in your corridor, and we’d like to partner with them.” Hitt Mmhmm. Berridge I know we can come down, but that’s not the way to do it. We want to figure out how to partner with you. Holsenbeck I think that’s a change in attitude among the institutions… Hitt Yeah. Holsenbeck Again, which is to your credit, is this concept of partnership—that it does work, because I think what Randy said is, Bernie could be here, do whatever he wants to do. He does need us, but in reality, he could do it without us. Hitt Yeah, he could, and it’s a closely-held strategic view. They see, as he puts it, we are the survivors, and they would like to work with us. I hope that survives Bernie. Holsenbeck Yes, that’s the—that’s always the question. Berridge Mmhmm. Hitt Always the question. You know, if you’ve got an old-style, rigid, competitor mentality that it might not, but… Pynn John, I think going—part of [inaudible] we will know that very quickly, but that search committee was given the sense of the importance of that partnership. Hitt Well, and in their chair in that David Brown again? He and Bernie are really good in that selection. Berridge What can we do for you? Lester Well, I—this is… Clark You had another question, you said? Lester They answered it. Hitt Did they? Okay. Lester In going through that. This has been very helpful. A lot of the things that you said I kind of gathered through looking at other things and I kind of had the intuition that this was the way it was, but it is very helpful to hear you say it and confirm it. That that’s the way it was, and there was some new things I learned, and I know your time was very valuable and I really appreciate the time. Hitt This was fun. Berridge Thank you. Hitt Thank you. Yes. Lester I have to say, on a much smaller level, I’ve worked at a couple big universities before I got here. This is the first university I’ve been to that actually meant it when it says “partnership,” and even in the [UCF] History Department, RICHES [Regional Initiative for Collecting the History, Experiences, and Stories of Central Florida] now has 28 partnerships between different departments, the community, and businesses. Berridge Oh, wow. Hitt You guys and gals over there are doing partnerships. It—it’s known. Lester It’s really been amazing to me how well that works. Clark Did you know we have our own museum now? Up in Sanford?<a title="">[6]</a> Hitt Mmhmm. Pynn You’re the dinosaur. Clark A number of people have said… Pynn Can I get two points? Hitt You’re a leg up on three points Lester But you know… Clark A number of people I’ve talked to, involved in this, have said that giving me a pay raise would enhance the university. Lester Exactly. Clark Have you given that much… Hitt We have. We’ve thought about it a lot. Pynn You know what—actually, I understand. Hitt We’ve thought about it as much as we’re going to. Pynn I understand we’ve thought that we’re going to do some research on that. Berridge It’s a history project. Holsenbeck Let’s say goodbye to the staff. Thank you so much for the interview. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Randolph E. Berridge. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Irma Becerra-Fernandez. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Paul R. Sandberg. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace, Paris-Le Bourget. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Richard “Rick” Lynn Scott. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> UCF Public History Center. </div> </div> 501(c)(6) Advanced Materials Processing and Analysis Center agro-tech Alachua County Alzo J. Reddick American Telephone & Telegraph Company AMPAC Amy Evancho Antoinette Jennings AT&T Inc. Becerra-Fernandez, Irma Ben Noll Bernard Machen Bernie Machen Berridge, Randolph E. Bethany Dickens Betty Bowe Betty Castor Bill Vogel Bob Cook Bob Dallari Brevard County Buddy Dyer budgets Carrie Martine Cassopolis, Michigan Central Florida Research Park Charles Bass Reed Charles Gray Charlie Gross Charlie Reed Cherokee Nation Cherokee, North Carolina Cherokees Chip Camp Cirent Semiconductor Committee on Transportation and Economic Development Funding community colleges Connie L. Lester Core Team Dallari, Bob Dallas-Fort Worth Corridor Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Dan Holsenbeck Dan Webster Daniel Alan Webster David Brown David Gordon David P. Norton Democratic Party Democrats DEO Department of Economic Opportunity Duvall County economic development Economic Development Commission of Florida's Space Coast economy EDC Economic Development Commission education Electronic Arts Elizabeth Bowe Elizabeth Castor Enterprise Florida FAU FIA FIAA FIU Florida Atlantic University Florida Department of Economic Opportunity Florida Economic Gardening Institute Florida Gulf Coast Florida High Tech Corridor Florida High Tech Corridor Council Florida House Committee on Transportation and Economic Development Funding Florida House of Respresentatives Florida International University Florida Polytechnic University Florida Power and Light Company Florida Senate Florida Senate Committee on Appropriations Florida Venture Forward Florida Virtual Entrepreneur Center Florida’s Chamber Foundation FLVEC FPU Fran Korosec funding George Gordon Get Smart Grant GrayRobinson, P.A. GrowFL: The Economic Gardening Institute Harrah's Cherokee Casino Head to Head: The Coming Economic Battle Among Japan, Europe and America high tech high tech corridors high technology House Committee on Transportation and Economic Development Funding House of Respresentatives Hunting F. Deutsch I-4 Corridor I/ITSEC IE industrial development industries industry Innovation Way Corridor intellectual property Interactive Game Academy International Paris Air Show Interservice/Industry Training, Simulation and Education Conference James C. Clark Jeff Mendell Jennifer Thompson Jim Clark Jim Shot John C. Hitt John Castor John Hugh Dyer K-12 education Kathy Betancourt Ken Pruitt Lake Nona Lake Nona Medical City Lawton Chiles Lawton Mainor Chiles, Jr. Lester Carl Thurow Littleton, Colorado Lowe Lynda Weatherman M. J. Sanders M. J. Soileau Mark B. Rosenberg matching grants Medical City Metro Orlando Economic Development Commision Metro Orlando Economic Development Commission Metro Orlando EDC MGRP Miami Michael Zaharris modeling MSW NAI National Academy of Inventors Native Americans orange county orlando Orlando Economic Development Commission Orlando EDC Pajama Hotline Paul Sanberg Peter T. Panousis Pratt & Whitney PRISM Promoting Regional Improvement in Science and Math Putnam County Randy Morris Ray Galley research and development Research Park Richard Lynn Scott RICHES of Central Florida Rick Scott Rob Goddell Roger Pynn Ron Walker Sacher Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace, Paris-Le Bourget Sanford-Burnham Medical Research Institute Sarah McGreer Science, Technology, Engineering and Math Seminole County Seminole State College Senate Shava Jackson-Car Silicon Valley, California simulation simulation industry Smart South Florida SSC state colleges State of Florida State University System of Florida STEM programs Steve Burly Sunnyvale, California Tampa Tampa Bay TCU Tech Path Teresa Jacobs Texas Christian University The Chronicle of Higher Education Thomas Charles Feeney III Tom Feeney Tom Feeny Tom O'Neal Toni Jennings Tracy Swarztz UCF UCF Department of History UCF Knights UF UM United Technologies Corporation University of Central Florida University of Central Florida Department of History University of Florida University of Miami University of South Florida USF venture capitalism Venture Forward Volusia County Community College workforce development Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Daytona State College Collection Alternative Title DSC Collection Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Daytona State College (Fla.) Contributor <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/75" target="_blank">Volusia County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/84" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach Collection</a>, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus, School of Behavioral and Cultural Sciences</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html" target="_blank">History of Daytona State College</a>." Daytona State College. http://www.daytonastate.edu/catalog/facts/history.html. Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198" target="_blank">History</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. http://www.cityofnsb.com/index.aspx?nid=198. Cumiskey, Kate. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/491915106" target="_blank">Surfing in New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing, 2010. Coverage Daytona State College-New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater, New Smyrna Beach, Florida New Smyrna Beach, Florida Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records contributed by the New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater campus of Daytona State College. Items in the collection focus on the history of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. In 1758, the first European settlers arrived in present-day New Smyrna Beach and Dr. Andrew Turnbull established the colony of New Smyrna. Most of the colony's settlers were from Greece, Italy, and Minorca, Spain. Turnbull planned for the town to produce hemp, sugarcane, indigo, and rum, but the colony quickly collapsed due to insect-born diseases and raids by nearby Native American tribes. Most of the survivors resettled in St. Augustine. In 1887, New Smyrna was incorporated. In 1892, Henry Morrison Flagler expanded his Florida East Coast Railway to the area, sparking growth in the city. During the Prohibition of the 1920s, New Smyrna served as a site for moonshine stills and hideouts for rum-runners. In 1947, the city was renamed New Smyrna Beach when it annexed Coronado Beach. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Hull, Dakota Interviewee Wright, Thomas D. Location <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/maps/southmap.html" target="_blank">Daytona State College-New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus</a>, Edgewater, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 28 minutes and 41 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 192kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Thomas D. Wright Alternative Title Oral History, Wright Subject New Smyrna Beach (Fla.) Oral history--United States Surfing--United States Surfers--United States--Biography Surfboards Description An oral history with Thomas D. Wright, a surfer and lawyer with Wright, Casey & Stowers, P.L. in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Wright was born in Florida on April 8, 1951. Other topics discussed in the oral history include growing up in New Smyrna Beach, how others perceive surfers, the evolution of surfing, how surfing affects society, surfboards preference, surfing contests, how New Smyrna Beach was affected by surfing, and plans to establish the East Coast Surfing Museum. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:35 Growing up in New Smyrna Beach 0:01:20 Surfing influences 0:02:23 Others' perception of surfers 0:04:24 Surfing memories and impact on Wright's life 0:06:40 Evolution of surfing 0:08:49 Traveling to surf 0:10:16 Surfing as an adult 0:10:47 Inspiration for surfing 0:11:41 How surfing affects society 0:13:03 Obstacles and injuries 0:14:48 Emotions that surfing invokes 0:16:43 Career and education 0:17:46 Learning to surf 0:18:55 How surfing influences his life outside of the beach 0:19:29 Surfboard preference 0:20:20 Teaching others to surf 0:20:49 Surfing contests 0:22:47 Other water activities 0:23:36 How New Smyrna Beach was affected by surfing 0:25:16 East Coast Surfing Museum 0:26:47 Surfing magazine Abstract Oral history interview of Thomas D. Wright. Interview conducted by Dakota Hull at Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Type Moving Image Source Wright, Thomas D. Interview by Dakota Hull. Daytona State College, New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Campus. August 1, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a>, New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/85" target="_blank">Daytona State College Collection</a>, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage New Smyrna Beach, Florida Nags Head, North Carolina Tampa, Florida Creator Hull, Dakota Wright, Thomas D. Publisher <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College </a> Contributor Brandon, Anthony Hendrix, William Hull, Dallas Panich, Sarah Date Created 2013-08-01 Date Modified 2014-02-11 Format video/mp4 Extent 131 MB Medium 28-minute and 41-second audio/video recording Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Dakota Hull and Thomas D. Wright and publisheded by the Daytona State College <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to the resource is held by <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/" target="_blank">Daytona State College</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project History Skill Building Project 2013, <a href="http://www.daytonastate.edu/CampusDirectory/DeptInfo.aspx?dept=BHS" target="_blank">School for Behavior and Social Sciences</a>, Daytona State College Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="https://www.daytonastate.edu/maps/nsbmap.html" target="_blank">Daytona State College New Smyrna-Edgewater Campus</a> External Reference Sweett, Lawrence J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/77551284" target="_blank">New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2006. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/491915106" target="_blank">Surfing in New Smyrna Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing, 2010. "<a href="http://www.cityofnsb.com/198/History" target="_blank">History</a>." City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. http://www.cityofnsb.com/198/History. "<a href="http://smyrnasurfariclub.com/" target="_blank">About the Club</a>." Smyrna Surfari Club. http://smyrnasurfariclub.com/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/9DKELbphZRU" target="_blank">Oral History of Thomas D. Wright</a> Baldwin Brandon, Anthony CB Surfboards East Coast Surfing Museum Grigas, Carol S. Hendrix, William History Skill Building Project Hull, Dakota Hull, Dallas longboard Martin, Mike New Smyrna Beach oral history Panich, Sarah short board Smith, Gordon Surfari Club surfboard surfer surfing University of South Florida USF Wright, Buddy Wright, Casey & Stowers Wright, Casey & Stowers, P.L. Wright, Thomas D. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/90feb8ab39e4a2fec50679cbd193b838.pdf ea92387fc069eaaebe2a80aee776dd81 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Celery Soup: Florida's Folk Life Play Collection Alternative Title Celery Soup Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Community theater--United States Theater--United States Description The Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection encompasses photographs, artifacts, and oral histories related to the production of Creative Sanford, Inc.'s and Celery Soup's play Remade - Not Bought, performed at the Princess Theater in 2013. Many of the items in this collection were collected by Dr. Scot French's Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class during the Fall 2013 semester at the University of Central Florida. Contributor Dingle, Cathy Lee Delgado, Natalie Fedorka, Drew M. Ford, Nancy Harris French, Scot A. Kelley, Katie Lee, Luticia Gormley Maliczowski, Linda Lee Maples, Marilyn Miller, Mark Reisz, Autumn Thompson, Trish Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play, Sanford, Florida Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Princess Theater, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot A. French</a>'s Tools in Digital History Seminar Graduate Class, Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Reisz, Autumn Miller, Mark Interviewee Thompson, Trish Location Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 audio/video recording Duration 45 minutes and 42 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 876kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Trish Thompson Alternative Title Oral History, Thompson Subject Sanford (Fla.) Seminole County (Fla.) Oral histories Community theater--United States Theater--United States Theater managers Colquitt (Ga.) Orlando (Fla.) Race relations--United States Playwriting Description Oral history told by Trish Thompson, Vice President of Creative Sanford, Inc. The interview was conducted by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller on October 11, 2013 and focuses on Thompson's experiences with Creative Sanford and Celery Soup. Other topics include adapting the Swamp Gravy model to Celery Soup, how Creative Sanford and Celery Soup have evolved over time, the oral history interviewing process, partnering with the African-American community, the effects of the George Zimmerman trial on Sanford, adapting oral histories into community plays, goals of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, community involvement and feedback, fundraising and the Celery Ball, production costs, preserving the legacy of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, and maintaining community involvement. Creative Sanford, Inc. is a non-profit organization created to manage Celery Soup community theater productions. The original idea for the Celery Soup project came from Jeanine Taylor, the owner of a folk-art gallery on First Street in Sanford, Florida. Their first production was Touch and Go, which took several years of planning. The play focused on how the people of Sanford overcame obstacles throughout their history. Some of these stories include the fall of Sanford's celery industry, the Freeze of 1894-1895, and the closing of Naval Air Station (NAS) Sanford in the 1960s. Richard Geer and Jules Corriere, partners from Community Performance International, were in charge of assessing oral histories, converting them into scenes for the play, and writing original songs. Director Geer also used an all-volunteer cast from the local community, many of which were not experienced actors. During the process of producing the show, Creative Sanford decided to rehabilitate an historic building, the Princess Theater, which was located on 115 West First Street and owned by Stephen Tibstra. The Creative Sanford offices are housed in the Historic Sanford Welcome Center, located at 203 East First Street. As of December 2013, the Executive Board for Creative Sanford included President Brian Casey, Vice President Trish Thompson, Treasurer Linda Hollerbach, Secretary Dr. Annye Refoe, and Founder Jeanine Taylor. The Board of Directors consisted of Cheryl Deming, Juanita Roland, Wendy Wheaton, and Dr. Connie Lester, a professor of history at the University of Central Florida. Honorary Board Members included: Glenda Hood, former Florida Secretary of State and Mayor of Orlando; Valada Flewellyn, a local poet, author, and historian; and Jackie Jones, a local entertainer and arts advocate. Table Of Contents 00:00 Introduction 00:12 Thompson's biographical information 00:41 Celery Soup and Creative Sanford, Inc. 01:46 Mission of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup 02:28 How Celery Soup was founded 03:50 How Celery Soup adapted the Swamp Gravy model 06:29 How has Creative Sanford and Celery Soup evolved 11:36 Conducting oral history interviews 13:01 Gaining acceptance from the African-American community 16:26 Themes of oral history interviews 17:45 How to adapt oral histories into plays 20:07 Working with professional playwrights and directors 23:41 Using volunteers and employees from the community 24:45 Role of the Executive Board 26:43 Success in achieving goals 30:09 Importance of community involvement in plays 34:48 Biggest surprises 36:01 Fundraisers and the Celery Ball 37:36 Production costs and ticket sales 39:33 Preserving the legacy of Creative Sanford and Celery Soup 41:26 Maintaining community engagement 43:40 Advice for communities creating similar projects 45:29 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Trish Thompson. Interview conducted by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller at the <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc. Offices</a> in Sanford. In an interview on October 11th, 2013, Trish Thompson, current vice president and former president of Creative Sanford, Inc., discusses the inspiration for, creation of, and the development and evolution of Creative Sanford. Thompson also discusses some of the financial and other challenges that Creative Sanford has faced. Creative Sanford is a community organization that collects group oral histories from Sanford residents and uses portions of these interviews to write, produce, and perform plays for the community. Type Moving Image Source Thompson, Trish. Interviewed by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Offices, Sanford Welcome Center. October 11, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a>. Application software, such as <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/82" target="_blank">Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 45 minute and 42 second oral history: Thompson, Trish. Interviewed by Autumn Reisz and Mark Miller. <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> Offices, Sanford Welcome Center. October 11, 2013. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Creative Sanford, Inc., Sanford, Florida Celery Soup, Sanford, Florida Swamp Gravy, Colquitt, Georgia Creator Reisz, Autumn Miller, Mark Thompson, Trish Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2013-10-11 Date Modified 2014-01-06 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 287 MB 227 KB Medium 45-minute and 42-second audio/video recording 20-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Theater Teacher Provenance Originally created by Autumn Reisz, Mark Miller, and Trish Thompson, and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Creative Sanford, Inc.</a> <a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/" target="_blank">Celery Soup</a> Dr. <a href="http://history.scotfrench.com/" target="_blank">Scot French</a>'s "Tools in Digital History Seminar," Fall 2013 at the <a href="http://www.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida</a> Curator Cepero, Laura External Reference "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about" target="_blank">WHO IS CREATIVE SANFORD, INC?</a>" Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com//about. "<a href="http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/" target="_blank">About: History and Purpose</a>." Celery Soup. http://www.celerysoupsanford.com/about/. "<a href="http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida" target="_blank">Sanford, Florida: How do you make Celery Soup? Add stories, then stir</a>." Community Performance International. http://www.communityperformanceinternational.org/sanford-florida. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup" target="_blank">Tales of Sanford's resilience are the stars of 'Touch and Go'</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, October 20, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-20/entertainment/os-celery-soup-sanford-20101020_1_oral-histories-swamp-gravy-celery-soup. "<a href="http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go" target="_blank">Young dancer helps put spark in 'Touch and Go'</a>." The Sanford Herald, March 2, 2011. http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/12128828/article-Young-dancer-helps-put-spark-in--Touch-and-Go. "About Us." Swamp Gravy: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. http://swampgravy.com/about-us/. "<a href="http://swampgravy.com/about-us/" target="_blank">About Us</a>." Swamp Grave: Georgia's Official Folk-Life Play. http://swampgravy.com/about-us/. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Flewellyn, Valada S. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/4497409" target="_blank">African Americans of Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2009. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://youtu.be/nJSla2r-d3g" target="_blank">Oral History of Trish Thompson</a> Date Copyrighted 2013-10-11 Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Transcript Reisz My name is Autumn Reisz, and I’m here with Mark Miller, and we are asking the wonderful Trish [Thompson] a few questions today about Celery Soup and Creative Sanford[, Inc]. Um, if you just want to take a second and introduce yourself and we’ll get started on the questions. Thompson Okay. I’m Trish Thompson and I am, um, former president of Creative Sanford for four years now, and vice president, and theater manager. Um, when we do our interviews we tell where we are and what the atmosphere is. So I’ll say we’re in my office and, um, the atmosphere is quiet and we only have an air-conditioner going that could possibly interrupt. Miller Okay. Thompson So I’m ready when you are. Miller Alright. Thompson Start asking! Miller Well, thanks. Okay, um, what is Celery Soup? Thompson Okay. Celery Soup is Florida’s Folk Life Play. It’s a story that is comprised—a play, excuse me—that is comprised of story gathering which we have done, which is a lost art, and we, uh, get them from the citizens of Seminole County[, Florida] and hire a playwright. They put the stories together and that becomes Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play and we’ve done three performances, um, with the first one being Touch and Go, the second one being Made - Not Bought, and the third one being Remade - Not Bought. And, um, there—it went over so well, we’re—we’re just—we’re real happy with it and we’re already in—working with the playwright to get another one on the road for next year. So, uh, Creative Sanford is the umbrella organization. We are the producers of Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play. Miller Oh, very nice. Um, uh, what is the mission of Celery Soup? Thompson Uh, the mission of Creative Sanford—now you’ve got to know that we are the 501(c)(3) —Creative Sanford is. The, uh, actual production is Celery Soup—that’s the branding—is Celery Soup. It’s always Celery Soup. Every year the name of the play will change, but when they say, “What’s happening with Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play?” You know, then you tell ‘em whatever the new thing is that’s happening. Um, I’d have to read you our mission. Miller Oh, alright. That’s fine. No, that was excellent. Thompson Yeah. Miller Yeah. So, um, how did the idea for Celery Soup develop? Thompson Okay, the idea for, um, Celery Soup was, through our, um, person—the—the people that we knew in Colquitt, Georgia. And so Jeanine Taylor, our founder, went up there, met the people, saw the show and, um, and decided to bring it to Sanford when she moved her, uh, business here. And it was to help the economy and, uh, that was the first thought was that, you know, it was going to be an economic driver, bring people to Sanford, and of course help her business and other businesses in town. And she got the mayor and other people interested and they went up, saw the show, said, “Yes. This would be great for Sanford,” and that’s how it came to be in Sanford. Then we spent three hard years with interviewing people and getting the community to understand what we do. We hired, uh, uh, Celery Soup—I mean, excuse me, Swamp Gravy—to come to Sanford and teach us how to do the interviews. Uh, they gave us the booklet that we use and, uh—just on a side note—uh, Freddie [Roman-Toro] who is—was our intern this spring, he rewrote it and updated it and got it where, um, it would fit in more with the RICHES [Regional Initiative for Collecting the History, Experiences, and Stories of Central Florida] Mosaic Interface that we’re gonna be using with UCF [University of Central Florida]. [phone rings] Miller Alright. How did you change the Swamp Gravy model to fit the needs of Sanford? Thompson You know, that’s really interesting, because they’re—was that your question? Miller No. That’s not. Thompson Alright.[laughs] Reisz But Mark [Miller] really liked it. Thompson Yes. Okay. Now when you’re interviewing, you know, you might not want the subject to know that you [laughs]—so you’re gonna learn along with me, um, the um—we been—what was the question again? I’m sorry. Reisz Um, how did you change the Swamp Gravy model… Thompson Oh, okay. Reisz To fit Sanford’s needs? Thompson Swamp Gravy’s model—2,000 people—very small town, very isolated—and they had to draw from churches and, uh, they went way outside the area to bring people in and they had to bus them in to, uh, to come to the play. And everyone in the community was involved in it, because, you know, 2,000 people and you’re puttin’ on a production with a hundred people, you know, that’s—that’s almost everybody in the town, at one point or another, has been in the play. So for us, we’re in Central Florida. we compete with [Walt] Disney [World], the I[nterstate-4 corridor. um, we wanted to reach out to The Villages. that’s very difficult to reach out to The Villages, because they already have so much, um, entertainment and what have you that it’s right there at their fingertips. And they don’t come to Orlando very much. We found that out through the United Arts [of Central Florida], uh, president at that time, Margot Knight, that it was very tough to get The Villages, and so we’ve made so inroads into that and we do have one person who brings people in from there, but it’s, you know—that is, —that is harder. For us, we’re more sophisticated. Um, the area there was—you could do just about anything for, you know, nothing, because there were no regulations and no, you know—the city didn’t make ‘em do this and that. So when we started, we had a lot of legal and financial, um, and city rules and regulations that we had to comply with. And I would suggest to anybody who is gonna to do something like this: do not cut corners on your legal and your—those kind of responsibilities in— in getting your, um, work-up with your city, so that your—you know, you’re not gonna get, quote, “a free ride,” but, you know, you’ll have a good working relationship with the city, if you comply with what they want done. So… Reisz Um, how has how has Creative Sanford and Celery Soup—how has it evolved from when you first started the program? Thompson Oh my goodness. It has really evolved. When we first started we wanted to put on a show, Okay? One production a year and we were gonna—oh, someone was gonna give us a building. We’ve gotten a whole big song and dance of, you know, where you were gonna put it on. Well, we couldn’t find any place that would allow us to put it on. And the one theater that was in town, it was: number one, 500 seats 450 to 500 seats. And it had the fourth wall, which of course we didn’t know anything about, but it—the fourth wall was an invisible wall between the audience and the cast. and so, um, the community theater, one of the things that they require is that it is community involved and, you know, so it’s, um—it’s theater in the three-quarter is what we have. We don’t—we ended up renting a space. So number one, we have rent now and it’s not a free space. And so when we rented it, we had to sign a lease. And when we signed a lease, that changed—I mean, it was like the before and the after. The before lease and after lease. [laughs] Because then we became a theater, and the theater has to support itself. So you can’t have one play in the fall and the spring maybe—two plays—and maintain a theater. You know you got your rental. You got all your utilities you’ve got to pay. So we had to have other shows. So we first started with a group that wanted to have a home and they were called “The Princess Players.” And so they put on five performances during the year and, you know, we produced them. And so we did make money through that and were able to pay the rent, but so now after three years, since 2010, we made another big leap in that we realize that the theater was as important as Celery Soup. If we don’t have the theater, we’re in the same boat as everybody else, with searchin’ for a place to put your thing on and it’s gonna cost you a tremendous amount of money to be that little person who’s begging for a place to have a show. And after being in the theater, we didn’t want to go back to being in a gymnasium or someplace like that. So we co-op the theater and we have three organizations that co-op with us and they own the theater for those periods of time. So that helps pay the rent. Phew, there’s something here. So that pays, you know—that gets our rent paid. So then as time goes on, in the next year or two, we will be able to do some of the other things in our mission that we are not able to do now and, uh, the—the quantity that we would like to do and that helps other organizations that don’t have money that give them a place to showcase their art. Um, we’ve done art openings. We’ve done, uh, concerts. we’ve done, uh, with the Humanities Council—with the Dreamers and Schemers and they’ve asked us to come back in 2014 and do it again—standing room only—uh, we do The Holocaust with the Holocaust and Interfaith Council. So we’re making all these organizations that are becoming partners with us—that they’re doin’ it this year, that maybe next year, you know. and we’ll find places for ‘em to rent the theater to them for a minimal amount of money—cover the expenses—and they’re able to put something on and we’re able to provide the community with different kind[sic] of art— all different types of art. So we’re doin’ Celery Soup now. They’ll be doin’, uh, Sleeping Beauty and Grease, and the co-op people are doin’ these things. One of them is a school, so they do things through the summer. and then in August, I believe it is, we’re goin’ to do Spam-A-Lot. So it will be our first time to do, um—produce a Broadway show. And it’s a Tony Award-winning and that’s what we want to do. So we’d like to do Spam-A-Lot one year and whatever the next one, as soon as the rights open up. We want to do the most recent, like I believe next year Wicked, off-Broadway—you know, from Broadway—will be open. So this is a goal that we want to bring quality entertainment that people can afford to go to Wash—New York [City, New York] or Washington[, D.C.] or wherever. They can see really quality work, right here in Seminole County. They don’t have to go to Orlando. They don’t have to go to the arena, you know, and all that kinda thing. Miller Excellent. Um, so how do you collect the stories for the plays? Thompson Okay. Uh, we advertised. We had the Swamp Gravy Institute come down and we had a whole group of people come in and learn how to do the interviews. and then they’d ask their friends, “Can I interview you?” So it started out friends of the people who are to interview and moved out from there. We went, um, Serenity Towers, which at that time was called Bram Towers, and we did practice interviews with the older ladies and gentlemen and—and, uh, the—it was kind of a learning experience for everyone. And then we also, um, then put ads in the paper. And when we first got started we did a thing called, uh, Talks from the Stalks, is what we called it—like a stalk of celery. And, uh, the newspaper<a title="">[1]</a> was nice enough that we would put in little excerpts from interviews that we’d done. And so they’d do a little blurb—we’d hopefully have a picture of the person that spoke—and then a little piece out of their story. And then it would be the quote advertisement call to tell your story. So that’s how— that’s how we got started, with just grass-roots, asking your friends, and moving out into the community. And the most difficult part was being accepted by the black community, because there was a lot of, um, [sighs] negativity in both directions, in that, um, the black community was told that we were exploiting them by some people, who, for some reason didn’t understand what we were doin’. There’s a fly in here. Um, and then there was some on the other side that didn’t know how to relate to the black community. So it was a give-and-take and over the last six years. This year we were invited to Hopper Academy. Um, this was the first year we had been so lucky to have two reunions” The Hopper [Academy] and then the Crooms Academy [of Information Technology] we’re going to do in December. So that’s the, that’s a real plus for us to be able to have made the inroads into the black community—that they trust us. And, uh, if you know anything about Sanford, we’ve just gone through an awful trial<a title="">[2]</a> that brought up a lot of really bad memories from a lot of people—black and white. And, uh, it’s just, uh— it’s just a miracle that we’re such a good community that we overcame the outside pressures and didn’t succumb to anything that they wanted to [laughs]—they wanted us to have a riot or something. I don’t know what the media wanted, but, uh, they didn’t get it, because we’re not that kind of a town. We’re a good town. We’re—we’re working together. And I think we have helped over the last six years to help the community realize that, you know, all that outside stuff that made ‘em appreciate that we really are a closely knit community, much closer than was realized and yet there’s still a lot of—a lot of energy and a lot of negativity that—that is like post-traumatic stress disorder. You know, it’s—you think of the worst thing that ever happened you think—you in your life. It flashes [snaps] to you immediately. You know exactly was the worst thing in your mind that ever happened to you. And that may be, this—this—this trial just triggered. That throwback to that worst feeling of inadequacy and—and negativity that they ever had. So, you know, we—we have to appreciate that and realize it. And I’ve talked to people who have said, “Oh, why don’t they just get over it?” And I say, “What’s the worst thing that ever happened to you?” “Oh, that I lost my child,” or, you know—I mean that’s horrific. And I say, “Well, get over it.” Whoa, did they get mad at me? But, I say, you know, you’ve got to understand—and it was somebody that wanted to interview, but they didn’t have the empathy or the sympathy or the—the feelings that were needed to be an interviewer in this organization. So, when you’re doin’ this, I’d say to anybody: be sure that the people who are interviewers have an open mind and/or can keep their feelings under—you know, under the radar—under the cover. Miller Well, that brings up a question of when you’re asking the stories, what sort of themes—you ask for themes? Or how do you go about… Thompson Well, we’re… Miller Pitching the story. Thompson We started with a theme that was, uh, perseverance. And this was in 2010, and so our first story was about, uh, how Sanford and the community had overcome all sorts of natural, um, disasters. We had floods, and we had, uh, fires, and we had—the weather froze—and, I mean, uh, the weather was very cold and the fruit and vegetables and the trees froze. You know, so it changed the whole economy of things. The, uh, Navy left Sanford. Big, big, big, big problem. and Sanford’s overcome and actually gotten better from all the different changes that have happened. So that was what—it was perseverance, and we used as a sub thing, openin’ a can of worms [laughs]. So we—we just—“So what is,” you know, “What were you mad about? What did you not like? What did—what did ya get over on somebody?” You know, we had all kinds of questions that we tried to pull out of people that were deeper than just—“Who are you? Where did— where did you go to school and what do you do? “ Miller Well, you did something like, uh, what you’re, um, talking about, perseverance and… Thompson Mmhmm. Miller You know, can of worms. How do you integrate that into the play? Thompson Well, that is what you have your playwright for. Now we’re, uh, setting up now and working with UCF with this, um—we have, um—May, um—what do ya call ‘em? With, uh, the keyword—keywords. So it might be perseverance. It might be love. It might be hate. it might be alligators or animals, or, you know—so, you’ll have keywords and the, um—um, the—the writers can key in that word, and then up comes the transcription from the play of that—of that—that might fit that story—may might fit that thing. So, uh, next year’s going to be a comedy. and so we’re, you know—we’re gonna have a theme that’s going to be outta—we don’t know yet—outta, uh—that hadn’t been decided. Uh, that’s how you do it is you decide on your theme and you go to your playwright and say, “I want you to write about this theme and here are your keywords and you can go to all these different” —so maybe when we do an interview—the interview usually lasts an hour and a half, um—in that hour and a half, you might get 10 good stories or 10 stories, you know. It depends on how fast they talk or, you know, what—what you could pull out of ‘em. Some of ‘em in an hour you won’t get one that’s worth anything. But, uh, it might be able to use in backgrounds somewhere. And some of ‘em you could use every single story in, you know—that they tell. They’re all just—oh my gosh. This is great. And we have several of those families that have done that and one is Uncle Dieter and one is Mr. [Elmer] Baggs. Both of them have just fabulous stories that they tell and we’ve used them in all of our productions. We’ve used stories from them and we go back, like you said—we go back to them to, you know, harvest more stories from them and ask different questions and—you know. Some of ‘em are just so funny. You know, that you, you forget that you’ve to get in to some of these power depth things too. Reisz Have you encountered any challenges working with a playwright that may or may not be from the Sanford area? is there any challenge to that? Thompson We—yes. We have had that challenge. Um, the one that the professional group that we used, they came and taught us a lot, and they were not from our area. So they had to do a lot of historical research at the libraries and, um, the historic society, so they got a lot of input there. Though it was very good for them, but also they would say things that we would say, uh, “Stop. We can’t use that. We—this—it’s not correct.” It’s, you know—or it’s too—it’s still too politically, um, explosive. That—that we don’t want to bring that to our town at this point. Later we’ll—we’ll delve into that, but right now we can’t do that. And, uh, and one of ‘em is about—and it—it—it’s about, uh, ah, the [Mayfair] Country Club. And the—the playwright wanted to put that in there and I said, “We cannot put this in there. They are going to court. This is a lawsuit. It has not been [laughs]—you know, we can’t put something that’s an ongoing thing that maybe somebody would be a juror on that trial that saw our view of this. No, no, no, no, no. we can’t do that.” So it’s a perfect—it’s a perfect example of— of havin’ to help, you know, keep things in the right frame that we want to. Reisz Have you, um, always used, uh, a playwright to produce your plays and a professional director and have you guys done any of that on your own? Thompson We’re in the process now of doing that and we hired—we’ve hired, um, people who have professional—have had professional experience, but are for—we only use the professionals the first time, ‘cause that was like $125,000 and so we had to raise money for a long time to—to get that together. And that was the year that we signed the contract with the theater. So, you know, all of this and financial part of it all mixes together. And you realize, once you start this, you are a theater. You know, you’re not just—unless you’re going to keep it on a low key, not very large, but if you want to go big, you’re going to have to be a theater. And we want to go big. We’ve—want to go to the [John F.] Kennedy Center [for Performing Arts] in—in, Washington. We’re already set to be at the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center. We’re working with Central Florida, uh, uh, Community Arts and they’re gonna do a Christmas that’s gonna be the same show, or similar to the same show, that they put on at Christmas at Disney. So it’s the candlelight, uh, service that you pay 80-90 dollars for and you’ll pay 10-20-15, you know, for this show here. Because we want community to be able to see what we’re doing. And, and, uh, that is—that’s part of our mission, to bring the community together. Reisz Um, so the professional—that’s the direction that you guys are going to go in going forward is using, uh, not necessarily, um, director per se, but definitely a professional playwright and things like that? you going to keep that? Thompson Well, no. we’ve brought the community on the playwright too. As a matter of fact, um, even I helped write [laughs] a little bit of the play that we’re doing right now. So I can’t call myself—I call myself an editor, not a playwright. Miller Well, that was one of the questions, that, um, regarding—do you have any employees? Thompson No. we’re—not yet. Miller You were talking about having some professionals... Thompson Uh uh. Miller So, um, you hire people as you need them? Or… Thompson The way they—yes. and the way that works, um, is that they would get a stipend. Um, you would be for, um, a director, you might pay 750-1000 dollars, something like that. It’s not big money. And they have to work for six or eight weeks before the show to get it ready. I mean, that’s a lot of work for, you know, that kind of money. Uh, but a lot of community theater only pays the music director. Everybody else is volunteer. And we have thousands and thousands hours of volunteer hours, because we have no paid staff. We do have some[sic] paid artist, but not any paid staff. And nobody and—none of the actors are paid. Miller So you draw your expertise from the community also? Thompson Right. and that is a lucky thing that we have. That we have so much theater and, um, entertainment in Central Florida, and people who want to do theater. And they’re tied into day to day jobs that, um, you know, stifle their creative—and, and they do it for free. They do it for the love of theater. Which I didn’t understand. I’m a businessperson. I came out of, you know, owning my own business for many, many years and my husbands a, uh, CPA [Certified Public Account] and ran an insurance company. And, oh my gosh. You know, everything is the bottom line kiddo [laughs]. So that’s kinda where I fit in. And t’s a little difficult for me to learn and having to learn. And most of the other people on the [Executive] Board are businesspeople. And they—it’s—it’s—it’s somethin’ to learn how to do this. Miller Well, what—you brought up the board. What role does that—the board play? Thompson Uh, the board makes the decisions on where the money goes, and—and where the fundraisers and, um—we do all the—all the grunt work that has to be done. We do the marketing. We do the, uh, advertising. We do the, uh, um—um, the Celery Ball, which is our main fundraiser. We reach out to all community to—to get the word out and speak to groups and make connections wherever we can with the politicians, in, uh, um—you know, just have to reach out to every single facet. And it’s—it’s—it’s a miracle. It’s wonderful. It is wonderful. And I love working this class that’s a very diverse class, with older, younger, men, women. It’s great. You know, I going to learn so much from you all [nods]. Reisz How, um, how is—how is Creative Sanford and Celery Soup, how have—how have you been successful in achieving your goals? Thompson Well, we’ve put on three shows. Yes. We’ve brought in community who have done playwright—playwriting—who have done music, who have done directing, that are from the community, that were paid a small stip—small stipend. And, um, you know, this is—this is the goal. is to bring the community together. We’ve brought people together who would have never have met. Um, one lady who’s a very prominent, uh, poet, and she was in our show and she helped write a little bit of it. And, um, she was afraid of one the—of one of the people in the show. It was a young black guy and she was an older black lady, but she wasn’t raised in any of the—so she had a whole generational plus economic—there wasn’t a reason to be afraid of this young person. But she was—she was fearful. And so she really learned. And the—and the young person learned too. How to be more respectful and so that’s—that’s a goal is—you know, I think people call it bullying and all of that, but it’s really—it’s learning how to love each other and work with each other, and um, and blend into to, uh, international, you know, family. Reisz You mentioned earlier that there was a couple of things that, um, you hadn’t achieved. You know, you want to do more outreach with other community groups and things like that? Thompson Right. Reisz Is there anything else you—that Creative Sanford would like to do, but you haven’t been able to do yet? Thompson Oh, yes. We’d like to, um—we’d like to have a performing arts center. and we have talked to, uh, Congressman [John L.] Mica about that. um, preliminary, stages, of maybe having an arts council—not an arts council. We have the Seminole Cultural Arts Council, but um, to work with them with Creative Sanford to have our theater in a building, to have uh, um, uh, galleries in the theater, and have gift shops, and have, uh, study areas, and training areas, and studios. I mean, we’ve got a big group of ideas and that would—that would involve all the arts. And that’s one of the things that, um, is real—real difficult to get off the ground on no money. So that’s where you’re going to look for federal grants and that’s where you need your politicians to help you. And Seminole Cultural Arts Council and ourselves are working together to, uh, work with Congressman Mica and—and see if we can get one in Seminole County. You know, there’s a lot people, there’s a lot of money in Seminole County. It’s all going south. So we want to bring some of it back to Seminole County and let them realize that, not only are we a bedroom place, but also a great place to—to just enjoy life and make your whole—whole area more livable. Reisz Um, why is it important—in particular in Sanford, of course—but why is it important that these plays are produced by the community for the community? Thompson Well, that goes right back to, um, people learning each other, meeting each other, uh, getting together, and becoming friends and, um, meshing as a team. And they go out when—when we have done this, um, the group says, “Hey, I know a place that we need to go.” So emails go back and then we just get together, we go out, maybe put on a performance or—not a whole show—but do vignettes, maybe do a little bit of Uncle Dieter maybe do a little bit of, um, Elmer Bags. Just, you know, somethin’ funny or, er, poignant, or somethin’ like that. We’ve done one called Generations,where the woman tells the story of how her family came from Africa and, you know, where they landed, and you know, how her history came about, and now she’s the last one in her line. And she says—at the end, she says, “Who will remember me? Will you?” And it just—oh, it just gives me cold chills right now. It’s just—it just tells people—opens their eyes and minds and hearts to, you know, what’s going on in the rest of world and how other people are feeling and, um, we always want to do more of that. Reisz Uh, you had mentioned earlier that—that the—that Creative Sanford and Celery Soup in particular had been really well received by the community? Thompson Yes. Reisz Um, how have you integrated community feedback into your projects and the things that you’re doing, besides just the interviews? Thompson Well, that is—that is one of the big things that we do. When we have the play and getting it ready, okay? We have a day, that we have—invite all the community to come to the theater and we do a run through of the play. And if they have feedback, “Oh that—that story wasn’t there. That story is over on Eleventh Street.” “Oh, this is wrong,” or “I don’t like this,” or, oh—they don’t laugh or, you know, they think something’s offensive. And we take that all into consideration. We’re very much attuned to what—it’s like what we tell the playwrights, sometimes we say, “Hey. Something we already know politically you can’t do that. They’re already in a—they’re already in a lawsuit.” But it is the same thing with other peoples’ feelings. And, um, we had one lady who got up and said she loved this part and the other lady got up and said that, “This isn’t the way it was where I was.” And it was complete opposite, so it was like, “Okay. Well, we’ll tell this story here and let’s interview you and get your story for the next time.” So it’s—you know, we’re going to tell our stories as much as we can, but we want to—we want to be fair to everybody, but that is what we do. That’s part of the community—that we learned from the professionals. It’s that you have—when you start your cast, you—you have a day that you talk about, um, being compassionate and—and working with your other cast members and all of that sort of thing. And, um, that kind the way it starts and then, you know, we get this real tight group going and people know you now. For me, see, I am known as the “ticket lady,” because I was always down there working the tickets and, you know, all this. They didn’t know I was president. they didn’t care who I was. I was the ticket lady. That’s the one they saw every night. But now they’re seeing me in a completely different role, because I’m in the play. And I have just a small—I have three small parts, but, you know, one of ‘em is absolutely just as silly as all get out and so they’re seeing, “Oh, the ticket lady does something besides” [laughs], you know, “sell the tickets. She might have some other good things that she can do.” So they’re seeing me in a different light and I think we see everybody in a different light. That—that whatever they perceive themselves to be, we’re seeing them in a different, more human light. Miller Well you’ve been with the project from the beginning, um… Thompson Just about. Miller Well, what—what are your biggest surprises about this? Thompson Oh, all of it. All of it. I had no idea how much work it was gonna be, how much fun it was gonna be, how enlightening it was gonna be. It’s just been—it’s just—it’s been like [sighs] renewed youth of somethin’. You know, you’ve thought, Oh, well, my identity is a restaurant owner. This—I’m the Rib Ranch, you know. Well then you retire and I got all involved in this and—and, uh, now I feel like, “Well, hey. This, this is rejuvenated me.” and, you know, put your brain in gear again and you have all these new goals, because I’d already completed all my goals. I was the best restaurant that sold barbeque in Seminole County and, you know, where do you go from there? So this was a new goal and set new things. So age never matters. Grandma Moses became famous in her 80s, so maybe I’ll become famous in my 70s [laughs]. Miller Ah, what are some of the challenges in creating and maintaining a project like Celery Soup? Thompso Financial. There you go. That’s the bottom line. That’s the big problem, is getting’ the money. Yup. Miller Well, um, you mentioned fundraisers. Thompson Mmhmm. Miller And you have a Celery Ball. Thompson Right. Miller Do you want to describe that a little bit and some of the other fundraisers? Thompson Okay. What we’ve done—and, of course, this has evolved too. When we first started we had the Celery Ball, we had a king and queen. And the king and queen raised money—the king and queen candidates raised money—and, um, the first year we raised over $30,000. The second year about $30,000. The third year about $25,000. And the fourth year $10,000. Okay. economy. There you go. The economy’s going down, people didn’t have money to do all this, so that next year it was—we had a lot of silent auctions. We did not have, and we’re not having this year, a king and queen. So we feel like—okay. We’ve kind of burned that out. it’s got a life of about four years and then you’ve got to go to something else. So we’ve moved the play—we’ve moved it to a different location. It’s gonna be a The Great Gatsby themed, so it’s gonna to be ‘20s-‘30s. Gonna be a lotta fun and, uh, um—and we have silent auction and trips and things like that, that we’re gonna be putting out to—to raise money instead of having—it was real easy when you had kings and queens and they’re all out having fundraisers and, you know, they’re doing all the work and you’re raking in the money. But it doesn’t work that way. It doesn’t work that way for the whole thing. Miller Alright, um… Reisz [inaudible] Miller Yeah, uh, what are, um, some of your production costs? And in that the price of your tickets and stuff? Thompson Mmhmm. okay. We price our tickets at $15—well 20 and 18 at first—and then we moved it down to 15 and 12. And, ah—again, it’s to meet the mission of bringing things and the quality—best quality we can—to the community. And these are bad times. I don’t know how you guys are seeing it, but, you know, everybody is working one or two, you know—working extra jobs. Still not, you know, cuttin’ it with the way things are going with businesses, where they’re cutting people’s hours back. “Oh, we’re only going to give you 26 and we’re never gonna give you more than 32, so you can’t be a full-time employee, so we won’t have to pay you benefits.” Da, da, da, da, da. So we look at all of that and, uh, we decided on our price, and because we’re not usin’ the professionals. We’re back—we give just the small stipend—we do a production, is about 10,000, mkay? Is what it costs us to put on a production. and a lot of it is borrowing from different places in the community. Oh, and now that we’re a co-op we can say, “Oh, do you have some lights we can borrow?” Whereas we may have had to spend 10,000 on lights the first year, which we did. We had to rent ‘em. That, you know, now we can get lights and—as a matter of fact, we just had two people who gave us lights just in the last week. So, you know, we’re getting the lights—we don’t still have as much lighting as we need, and that’s one of the things that we’ll get a grant to help us get lighting and sound equipment and, you know, these kinds of things that we need. But, um, yeah. that’s it. Financial. Reisz Um, much of what Celery Soup has been doing is preserving the history of and the stories of Sanford. Thompson Right. Reisz How are you preserving the legacy of Celery Soup and Creative Sanford itself? Thompson Well, we have two ways. Uh, Alicia [Clarke] at the, um, Sanford Museum has asked us for copies of everything. So they’re going to archive the beginnings and all of our—as time goes by, they’ll do it. And so I’m keeping double records of, you know, two pieces of paper and so we’ll keep one and give one to her. And of course, we’re expecting that a lot of our archiving is going to go up on RICHES, so we’ll have that as part of our archival process. And we, um—you have to have a disaster program, you know, and so we have disaster programs and we have things backed up with—on the flash drives—or we have them backed up on secondary computers. We have, um, fireproof safes that we keep things in. and we keep things off, um—out of the office. I don’t—I can’t think of what the word is. but somewhere else that, um, we keep things—the financial things and the historic things—um, backed up. So that’s how we have to do it. And—and the things like this, I’m really happy that if anything happened to this little dress, um—this was the dress that was worn by the little two and a half year old little girl, who was in our very first production—Kalayla. and, um, so definitely want pictures of that. And that’s—that’s an archival thing. If this rotted, we wouldn’t have it. So… Miller Okay. um, how do you keep the community engaged in Celery Soup, uh, especially long-term? Thompson That’s a problem. You have to keep moving and especially when we have to look two ways: the economy and wearing yourself out, you know, with asking people over and over again for help. And, uh— so the engagement—we just try to broaden and not to go back to the same wells every time. That if there’s 54,000 people in this town, and if 2,000 people are helping us, we need to get to the next 2,000 and the next 2,000, and the next 2,000. And we’ve reached, um,—as a matter of fact, just last week we were given a check for $250 from an organization that had never helped us before. So here we are. We’re getting into that outer ring and so we’ll just, slowly but surely, we’re just gonna reach out all through the whole area and get some of these people. Mercedes[-Benz] helped us and then they kind of backed—backed away with what they were doing and so we’re going to different places to make this thing work. And we’re on David Maus’ [Toyota’s] jumbo-tron out there, which we’ve never been on there before and so, you know, that’s a first for us. So we just keep moving ou.t and we’ve never had any kind of TV advertising or never had any TV that supported us, and so this year, uh—this 2014, we’re really gonna put a push on getting sponsors of, um, in kind or whatever we can get from the, uh, major stations. We’ve had radio. We’ve had, um, um, public and NCR<a title="">[3]</a> and public broadcasting, but we want to get more into the mainstream too. Reisz Um, I know that we are getting tight on time, so we have one last question that we’d like to ask you, before we release you. Thompson Okay. Mkay. Reisz Uh, but what advice would you give another community thinking about beginning a similar project? Thompson The advice that I would give them is to contact everybody that has ever done one that you can find and ask them the questions that you’re asking. How do you do it? How much did it cost? We had a group that came in and asked us those questions and we answered them and, uh, and it was very interesting. We had—they came down and visited us and it was a very interesting time. But, um, whatever the people tell you it’s going to cost, figure it’s going to cost at least 50 percent or a third to 50 percent more, okay? It’s much more expensive than you think it’s gonna be. Uh, some people think, “Oh, well everything be given to us.” and that’s what we were told” Oh, people would just reach out to you and they’re gonna give you this and they’re gonna give—let me tell ya. in a big market like this, they don’t do that. Maybe in very small towns, yes. You can get that kind of immediate help, but in a big, big area like we’re in it’s not the same process. And that’s where we differ with Swamp Gravy too, in that, you know, we have a very different financial field back and forth there. So, yeah. It’s, um— it is—it’s mainly financial, legal. Be sure if you write contracts, if you go with professionals that, you know, you get a good tight that you’re protected and safe. And we went to an entertainment attorney and had her look over the contract and make changes and things to protect us a little bit better. So those are the things that you’ve got to have. Reisz Well thank you very, very much. We greatly appreciate it. Um, we really appreciate it. And then we’ll probably come up with some other questions. If you think we missed anything, let us know. We’d be happy to ask about it. Thompson [laughs] Okay. Miller And we… <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> The Sanford Herald. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> State of Florida v. George Zimmerman. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Correction: National Public Radio (NPR). </div> </div> 11th Street 1st Street 501(c)(3) Bagg, Elmer Baggs Bram Towers Broadway Celery Ball Celery Soup: Florida’s Folk Life Play Central Florida Central Florida Community Arts Clarke, Alicia Colquitt, Georgia community theater Creative Sanford, Inc. Crooms Academy of Information Technology David Maus Toyota Disney Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center Dreamers and Schemers Eleventh Street First Street fourth wall Generations Grandma Moses Grease Great Gatsby Holocaust and Interfaith Council Hopper Academy Humanities Council I-4 Interstate-4 John F. Kennedy Center for Performing Arts Kalayla Knight, Margot H. Made - Not Bought Maus, David Mayfair Country Club Mercedes-Benz Mica, John L. Miller, Mark Mr. Baggs oral history Orlando, Florida Princess Theater race relations Reisz, Autumn Remade - Not Bought Rib Ranch RICHES Mosaic Interface RICHES of Central Florida Roman-Toro, Freddie Sanford Sanford Museum Sanford Welcome Center Seminole Cultural Arts Council Serenity Towers Sleeping Beauty Spam-A-Lot Swamp Gravy Swamp Gravy Institute Talks From the Stalks Taylor, Jeanine The Holocaust The Princess Players The Sanford Herald The Villages theater theater manager Thompson, Trish Tony Award Touch and Go Uncle Dieter United Art of Central Florida Wicked https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/fb4b767fdfbc1cdc6482f5afc10642ae.mp3 b58e59ab10997d1fdc80ab71c21a4bbf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Turner Clayton Alternative Title Oral History, Clayton https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b9fec4e49aa353cf8a7c616c27e61608.pdf f7d93fd3235d160735c197b03bab42eb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title History Harvest Collection Alternative Title History Harvest Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Schools Elementary schools Grammar schools High schools--Florida Description The Student Museum Collection encompasses historical artifacts donated for digitization at the Student Museum History Harvest in the Spring semester of 2013. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Sanford High School, Sanford, Florida Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida Sanford Grammar School, Sanford, Florida Student Museum, Sanford, Florida UCF Public History Center, Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a> <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center/Student Museum</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center</a>." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/. "<a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a>." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Settle, John Interviewee Smith, Walter Location <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida Original Format 1 digital audio/video recording Duration 10 minutes and 11 seconds Bit Rate/Frequency 263kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Walter Smith Alternative Title Oral History, Smith Subject Sanford (Fla.) Oral history--United States Elementary schools--United States Grammar schools Schools High schools--Florida Teachers--Florida Description Oral history of Walter Smith, interviewed by John Settle on March 2, 2013 for the UCF Public History Center's History Harvest. In the oral history, Smith discusses how he found information about the History Harvest, what it was like going to school at Westside Grammar Elementary School in the 1930s, his attendance at Seminole High School, and the football season. Sanford High School was originally established at 301 West Seventh Street in 1902. The building was designed by W. G. Talley in the Romanesque revival style. Due to an increasing student population, a new school building was constructed on Sanford Avenue in 1911. The original building on Seventh Street served as Westside Grammar Elementary School, which was later renamed Sanford Grammar School. In 1984, the building was placed on the National Registry of Historic Places and converted into the Student Museum. The building reopened as the University of Central Florida's Public History Center in 2012. In 1927, a high school campus was designed by Elton J. Moughton in the Mediterranean revival style and constructed at 1700 French Avenue. The school reopened on January 10 and was renamed Seminole High School. In 1960, the high school moved to a new campus at 2701 Ridgewood Avenue and the former building on French Avenue was converted to Sanford Junior High School, which was later renamed Sanford Middle School. The old building was demolished in the summer of 1991 and replaced by a $5.77 million school complex. As of 2013, Seminole High School offers various Advanced Placement courses, the Academy for Health Careers, and the International Baccalaureate Programme for students. Abstract Oral history interview of Walter Smith. Interview conducted by John Settle at <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> in Sanford, Florida. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:45 Memories of school 0:03:09 Items contributed for digitization 0:04:28 New school building 0:05:13 Hurricanes 0:06:01 Ice plant 0:07:12 People of Sanford 0:07:43 School football team 0:09:56 Closing remarks Creator Settle, John Smith, Walter Source Smith, Walter. Interviewed by John Settle. UCF Public History Center, HAR1063392P. March 2, 2013. Video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Date Created 2013-03-02 Has Format Digital transcript of original oral history: Smith, Walter. Interviewed by John Settle. UCF Public History Center, HAR1063392P. March 2, 2013. Video record available. <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 773 MB 101 KB Medium 10-minute and 11-second digital audio/video recording 6-page typed transcript Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Westside Grammar Elementary School, Sanford, Florida Seminole High School, Sanford, Florida Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by John Settle and Walter Smith and owned by the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a.</a> Rights Holder Copyright to the resource is held by the <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a> History Harvest, Spring 2013 Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center</a>." Public History Center, University of Central Florida. http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/. "<a href="http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx" target="_blank">Student Museum</a>." Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.scps.k12.fl.us/studentmuseum/Home.aspx. "<a href="http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/" target="_blank">Seminole High School</a>." Seminole High School, Seminole County Public Schools. http://www.seminolehs.scps.k12.fl.us/. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Transcript Settle Okay. It’s Saturday March 2nd[, 2013]. We’re here at the History Harvest event at the [UCF] Public History Center. My name is John Settle. I will be interviewing Walter [Smith]. Walter, if you’d just you tell us again how you heard about our event. Smith One of your cohorts, Ashley Vance, was having lunch at the Corner Café downtown. She was talking to Michael, the owner. Michael said, “Well you oughta talk to Walt Smith, ‘cause he grew up in Sanford.” So he called me. And I talked briefly with Ashley. Afterwards, once I got a hold of her, later that day, I told her, “Yes. I went to school here.” Smith We used to have some real mean hot volleyball games out here underneath the oaks. Of course, it was always a chore to run up to the auditorium and back down again for major events. But it was hard to keep your mind on your studies when it was springtime and the wide-open windows and no A/C [air conditioning]. You could either get sleepy or get distracted by what was going on outside. But it was a good school. I gotta say, the marble steps were actually cupped out, because of the foot traffic that went up and down ‘em all the time. That was, I think, the first high school we had here in Seminole County. And the first hot lunch cafeteria was financed by the Woman’s Club of Sanford. It was down at the east end of this building. It was a separate wood-frame building. Back when I was growing up there was, like, 12 and a half thousand people, and most of the parents knew who you belonged to. You couldn’t get into too much trouble, because even if you ran as fast as you could, you’d never beat back home before they knew what you’d done. And retribution was coming, of course. Settle Do you want to tell us what years that you went to school here? Smith Well it was—uh, let’s see I graduated from high school in ‘46. So go back nine—four years—no. Four, eight—eight years before ‘46 and that would be about it. ‘Cause you—you had the junior high school, which was seventh and eighth [grades], and this was sixth and seventh, and the elementary school—Southside—was one through four. Settle And do you want to tell us a little about some of the items you brought today to have digitized? Smith Yes. Mother was quite active at a lot of activities in town. But it was—this was an album that I made up for our 65th high school reunion. And looking at it and some of the studies, scrapbooks, and papers, I found an article about two of the first attendees at Seminole High School. And Gladys[sp] Morris, who married Herman Morris, who was my principal in junior high school, as well as high school. And Elizabeth Lynch she was a math teacher, and one of the best I’ve ever run into, because she could explain plane geometry and solid geometry simply where you understood what the heck she was talking about. And real good background. When they built the school—the new school—the one I just showed you. They had—the auditorium was down at the end. In fact, that’s part of it. But also—also in here we had the—hold onto it for a minute. That was when it was torn down—the auditorium. And before it was a lot of the alumni came back, and had a final get together and gab session with the rest of ‘em. But what I was gonna tell you about the high school was when they got it built, before the students even got into it, they had a hurricane come up. You know, we have those every now and then. And the city and the city fathers in their wisdom said, “Well, heck. That’s the strongest building we got here, unless it was the old ice plant, and that can handle a number of people. So y’all come here and use it as a comfort station, as well as a place to get away from the hurricane.” And, which reminds me that’s the reason why the old ice plant, here in Sanford, was the largest in the state, because they were icing down so many bunkers and railroad cars, as well as trucks that were going back and forth in the winter time. And they were shipping out a hundred car loads of celery a day from [station] company, celery pre-cooling plant my dad used to be comptroller for. And even back in high school, mid-40s, I remember Dad writing a check to the [Duda] brothers for the celery for that year—$1 million. So yes, we had an awful lot of celery ‘round here. In fact, Palucci—Dad put him on the cuff for a botch car of celery cuttage that he put in his china dishes. Chun king china doll and the rest. But there are a lotta good people here in Sanford. I used to kid the Western Union guy—the manager—that we just didn’t have any need for him around here, because if something happened in town between the phone, and the rotary system, and the woman’s grape vine, they’d know about it way before he would. And it[?] would go from that. This was—this was—let me get it out of here. I kept it, ‘cause at one time I was on the football team. That was the ‘46—l of the ‘46 team. And we used to get in practice for football by working on the little spur line—l railroad section gang. And old Mr. Lumnack[sp]—always had chewin’ tobacco in his mouth—he says—got us together one mornin’ and says, “Boys, y’all gonna have to slow down a little bit. I can’t find ties fast enough.” We were layin’ a hundred ties a day, and that was back before they had those automatic tampers where you had to take it all out and put it all back manually and then tamp it down. But it got us in shape. Settle This was working on the railroad? Smith Yeah. It was a section gang in the summertime before we got into fall school. Settle But it was for conditioning for football? Smith Yeah that was one way to do it. Then our coach was Hank “Goose.” “Goose” they called him. It was his nickname, ‘cause he had a long—he was a tall guy, but had a long, slim neck and it remind[sic] you of a goose, so people nicknamed him “Goose.” But he was an ex-pro baseball player, and the first year he was coach, our team made it all the way to the finals. And darn near won the thing. But like I say, it was a good town to grow up in, because the people cared about the kids—theirs and yours too—and they pretty well kept us from getting into too much trouble. Settle That’s great. Is there anything else you wanna say? Smith Y’all come... Settle Okay, I guess we’re gonna stop it now, if that’s okay. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a title="Oral History of Walter Smith" href="http://youtu.be/wMgl_qRt-9E" target="_blank">Oral History of Walter Smith</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">UCF Public History Center</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/73" target="_blank">Seminole County Public Schools Collection</a>, Student Museum and UCF Public History Center Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. References "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1563" target="_blank">The Celery Fed, Vol. 10 No. 2</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1563. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1560" target="_blank">Names Make 'The News</a>.'" RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1560. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1510" target="_blank">Seminole High School Postcard</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1510. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1507" target="_blank">Demolition of Seminole High School</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1507. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1561" target="_blank">Sanford Landmark School Building Hosts Reunion and its Last Hurrah</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1561. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1559" target="_blank">Ex-Students See School as New History Lesson: Progress Claims Old Site for Better Building</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/1559. Source Repository <a href="http://www.publichistorycenter.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">Public History Center/Student Museum</a> 7th Street air conditioning elementary school football French Avenue Goose grammar school History Harvest Lynch, Elizabeth Morris, Gladys Morris, Herman Public History Center Sanford Sanford Grammar School school Seminole County Seminole High School Settle, John Seventh Street Smith, Walter The Celery Fed UCF University of Central Florida Vance, Ashley volleyball Westside Grammar Elementary School https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/10f90dbd143c3fd155b1f26de5d9bfce.pdf 0a0092d9e0a2fc001530ae5cb69bf606 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection Alternative Title Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection Subject Railroad depots Railroad stations--Florida Railroads--Florida Apopka (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Ocala (Fla.) Port Orange (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Avon Park (Fla.) Mount Dora (Fla.) Punta Gorda (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Kissimmee (Fla.) Oviedo (Fla.) Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the various railroad depots and railroad stations in Central Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Bronson, Kelly Campbell, Tyler Clemente, Chris Connolly, Lehman Covington, Adrian Gray, Mark Lester, Connie L. Mercado, Carlos R. Moore, Samantha Santos, Marina Simons, Nicholas Smalls, Eric Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/77" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Coverage Amtrak Seaboard Coast Line Railroad Station, Orlando, Florida Apopka Seaboard Air Line Railway Depot, Apopka, Florida Avon Park Depot Museum, Avon Park, Florida Avon Park Seaboard Air Line Depot, Avon Park, Florida Avon Park Atlantic Coast Line Train Station, Avon Park, Florida Church Street Station, Orlando, Florida Fort Pierce Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Fort Pierce, Florida Fort Pierce Florida East Coast Railway Company Depot, Fort Pierce, Florida Kissimmee Railroad Station, Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Lake Wales, Florida Lake Wales Depot Museum, Lake Wales, Florida Mount Dora Train Station, Mount Dora, Florida Ocala Union Station, Ocala, Florida Orlando Railroad Depot, Orlando, Florida Oviedo Train Depot, Oviedo, Florida Port Orange Train Station, Port Orange, Florida Punta Gorda Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Punta Gorda, Florida Sanford Atlantic Coast Line Depot, Sanford, Florida Sanford South Florida Railroad, Sanford, Florida St. Lucie County Regional History Center, Fort Pierce, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://history.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=525" target="_blank">Dr. Connie L. Lester</a>'s American Economic History Undergraduate Class, Spring 2014 External Reference Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/184906141" target="_blank">A Journey into Florida Railroad History</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2008. Murdock, R. Ken. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38291666" target="_blank">Outline History of Central Florida Railroads</a>. Winter Garden, Fla: Central Florida Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, 1997. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 25: The Railways of Central Florida</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer Cravero, Geoffrey Interviewee McFarland, Warren Bit Rate/Frequency 574kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of Warren McFarland Alternative Title Oral History, McFarland Subject Orlando (Fla.) Avon Park (Fla.) Telegraph Railroads--Florida Description An oral history interview of Warren McFarland, a telegrapher, train dispatcher, railroad station agent, grocery clerk, Railroad Safety and Service Agent, Assistant Regional Director and Regional Manager for the Interstate Commerce Commission, and Director of the Office of Compliance and Consumer Assistance. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on January 28, 2016. Some of the interview topics covered include McFarland’s early years and formative experiences, his family life, growing up as the son of a railroad station agent and telegrapher in a railroad depot, World War II, railroad work and telegraphy in his time versus his father’s time, his first job as a grocery clerk, the “extra board” and railroad seniority, working for the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC), the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System, the Morse Telegraph Club, female telegraphers, American Morse Code versus International Morse Code, acquiring a piece of the first transcontinental telegraph line, train dispatching, overcoming communication limits, an explanation of telegrapher’s paralysis, and Guglielmo Marconi’s contributions to wireless telegraphy. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:59 Family life 0:04:45 Growing up in a railroad depot and World War II 0:07:34 Railroad work and telegraphy in father’s time 0:09:38 First job as a grocery clerk, the “extra board” and railroad seniority 0:11:45 Interstate Commerce Commission 0:17:22 Morse Telegraph Club 0:26:12 First transcontinental telegraph line 0:23:17 Train dispatching and overcoming communication limits 0:28:39 Telegraphy demonstration 0:35:23 Guglielmo Marconi and wireless telegraphy Abstract Oral history interview of Warren McFarland Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida. Type Moving Image Source McFarland, Warren. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank"> Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank"> Java</a> <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/97" target="_blank">Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format Digital transcript of original 35-minute and 41-second oral history: McFarland, Warren. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio/video record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Ohio Avon Park Atlantic Coast Line Train Station, Avon Park, Florida Ocala Union Station, Ocala, Florida Chicago, Illinois Atlanta, Georgia San Francisco, California Frances Perkins Building, Washington, D.C. Golden Spike National Historic Site, Brigham City, Utah Creator McFarland, Warren Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2016-01-28 Date Copyrighted 2016-01-28 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 197 MB Medium 35-minute and 41-second audio/video recording 14-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created by Warren McFarland and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/184906141" target="_blank">A Journey into Florida Railroad History</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2008. Murdock, R. Ken. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38291666" target="_blank">Outline History of Central Florida Railroads</a>. Winter Garden, Fla: Central Florida Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, 1997. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 25: The Railways of Central Florida</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477. Coe, Lewis. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/25509648" target="_blank">The Telegraph: A History of Morse's Invention and Its Predecessors in the United States</a>. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 1993. Stone, Richard D. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/23649628" target="_blank">The Interstate Commerce Commission and the Railroad Industry: A History of Regulatory Policy. New York: Praeger, 1991</a>. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/bzVlSEHnEaI" target="_blank">Oral History of Warren McFarland</a> Transcript Cravero Today is Thursday, January 28th, 2016. My name’s Geoffrey Cravero and I’m speaking with Warren McFarland at the University of Central Florida in Orlando. Thanks for speaking with us today, Mr. McFarland. Let’s, uh, begin with some of your biography. Could you, uh, tell us a little bit about where you’re originally from and your upbringing? McFarland Well, I was—I was born in Ohio, but we moved to Orlando when I was a year and a half old, so I count myself as a Floridian, and my father worked for the railroad here in Or—Orlando, and eventually went to Avon Park and was Railroad Agent there for many years, and that’s where I grew up, went to high school and—and, uh, where I went—learned from him—I learned the telegraph, I learned railroad work, and eventually went to work for the railroad after I graduated from high school in 1941. Um, had—had planned to go to college, but 1941 was not a good year to college, uh [coughs] and, uh, I wound up working on another railroad division, rather than the one that went through Avon Park, w—working out of Ocala, and I worked there, uh, for like 25 years, and then I was offered a position with the Interstate Commerce Commission, and I went, um—went with them, and uh, we—we lived in different places: uh, Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C, and I eventually retired as Director of the Office of Compliance for the Interstate Commerce Commission out of Washington, and I moved—we moved back to Florida after I retired, and been living here ever since. Cravero That’s neat. Um, so—what, uh—could you tell us a little bit more about your, uh, your parents? And did you have any siblings, or... McFarland Yes. [clears throat] Uh, well, I had, uh, two brothers and three sisters. Uh, the three—the three sisters and one of the brothers were half—half-brothers and sisters, but I didn’t know the difference. Um, they were—they were all older than I, and, uh, so—uh, they were my brothers and sisters, and still are. Al—although they’re not living anymore. I’m the only one of the six that’s still alive, but, uh, my parents were both from Southeastern Ohio, and my father worked for the railroad there, uh, for like 18 years, I think it was, and then he decided to come to Florida and get rich in the Florida Boom in the 1920s. Uh, that didn’t work, so he went back to the railroad and worked for the railroad until he retired [clears throat], and, um, my mother, uh, she was just a farm girl, but she—she worked for a doctor as a receptionist, and she later worked, um, at—in the express office with my father, and then, she—when he retired, she retired, and so, uh, they lived—live—they lived in Avon Park until—until she could no longer take care of herself, and my—my brothers and sisters, um, they—they all—lived all over the place. One in—one in Virginia, one in, uh, Ohio, and—and Chi—and Chicago, and one in Dallas, and my—my brother lived in Avon Park his entire life. He said, “There’s no reason for—for anybody to live anywhere but Avon Park.” Cravero [laughs]. McFarland [laughs] So that’s where he stayed. Cravero Were any of them, uh—did they follow in the family business of the railroad? McFarland No, none of them. I’m the only one out of—out of, uh—out of six, I’m the only one that went into the railroad business, um, and my—my youngest sister’s husband did go into the railroad business, and his son also went into the railroad business, and I had an uncle that was a railroad man. So it—railroading has—has always been pretty much a—a family, uh, affair in many—in many families. You know, one—one person gets started and then—then others go in, but—but none of my brothers and sisters, uh, were interested. Cravero Well, you mentioned, uh—that you—your father, uh, was a station agent and telegrapher in Avon Park. Um, could you tell us a little bit about growing up in the depot? What sort of, uh—what sort of skills and knowledge did you kind of acquire as a young man? McFarland Well, [clears throat] uh, I—I was always—I was not a, uh— crazy about trains, but I was interested in trains and—and—and the railroading, and I can remember when I could barely, uh, reach—stand up and—and reach the tabletop like this, and my dad had me doing things that I could do in the—like stamping—taking the rubber stamp and stamping it on a piece of paper on—on what’s called a waybill, which is a—a ship—a shipment, uh, document that you fill out when you have a shipment to make, and, uh, I would st—stamp the—the Avon Park’s stamp on there that showed this, that, where it started from, but, that had to have been about about—5-6 years old when I did that, and I—off and on, all—all during my school years, I just hung around there, and I—I didn’t—I wasn’t consciously preparing for a career in railroading. A matter of fact: my older brothers and sisters all went to college and—and—and it was planned for me to go also, but, as I said earlier, I graduated in 1941, and—and they were already drafting people out of—out of my class, and, um, so I—I knew it was a matter of time. So I didn’t think there was much point in going to college at that time. So I didn’t go until much later, but, uh, it—it—when—when I was in my senior year in high school, uh, that’s when you could see what was happening: the world was in turmoil, and, um—and, as I said, members of my class had—had been called up, and—so I began to learn telegraphy, and my father taught me and I practiced, and then after I graduated from—from, uh, school, he, um, told the—the railroad that I was, uh, sufficiently knowledgeable to go to work, and, uh—I—I didn’t—As I said, I didn’t—wasn’t consciously, um, aware that I was absorbing everything that I did absorb during those years, uh, hanging around the depot, but I learned an awful lot that I didn’t know I’d learned, until I went out on my own and was working. Cravero What, uh—did you notice, uh, any, uh, major differences between the—the time of your father and yours when it c—comes to the, you know—the telegraphing and the—the depots? McFarland Oh, yeah. Well… Cravero [clears throat]. McFarland When—when my father started, telegraphing was just about—I mean, that was like the major—major, uh, means of internal communication on the rail—on nearly every railroad, and—and when I started, it still was, but it—it began to fade away the—the longer I stayed, and I—and I—I stayed until 1965, and by that time, uh, they still required, uh, uh, people to know how to telegraph to go to work, but—but—at least—as—as—as, uh, operators and agents, but they did not, uh—did not use—use it, because they—everybody had telephones and—and things of that nature. So it was not as—as use—used as much then, and—and probably—well, I left the rail—railroad for the ICC<a title="">[1]</a> in 1965, and by the early 70s, there was[sic] hardly any railroads anywhere using t—the telegraph. It was all teletype and—and telephones and things of that nature. So that—it was[sic] tremendous difference there, and now, of course, it’s gone even beyond that. It’s all computerized—email and everything else like that. Even train dispatching, which I did for—for 18 years, um—that’s become computer-assisted train dispatching and—and the computer does it. When—when—when I was working, it was—it was all in your head. You had to do it all in your head, but, now the computer—they have what they call “computer-assisted dispatching.” Cravero So was, uh—I guess the depot was your very first job you had, or… McFarland Well, actually, no [laughs]. The very first paying job I—I worked as a clerk in the A&P<a title="">[2]</a> grocery store on Saturdays, uh, which—that—in—in a small town like Avon Park, that was about the only job that—kind of job that was available to a—to a high school kid, and there were three of four, uh, grocery stores in town, and the A&P, which was a chain, the re—others were all independent, but everybody—all the kids that I knew worked at one—one of the grocery stores. That’s where you got your first job. Cravero [laughs] Um, so I understand you ended up in Ocala, right? But, uh—but you kind of went from—where you were needed, um… McFarland Yes, you—when—when you begin railroading as—as a telegraph operator, you—you are put on what they call “the extra board.” Uh, um, you—you—your first day, you establish the date of your seniority, and that means that anybody that’s hired after you—you—you have rights over them on—on—if you want to claim a job or something like that, and—and the same thing hold—anybody that[sic] hired ahead of you can claim a job that’s—whether you want—whether you want it or not, and so, you—as—on the extra board, you just went where you were needed. Uh, somebody needed to be off sick, uh—there were no vacation—no paid vacation at the time, so that—uh, there was not much of that. Although some—some people did take vacations, and you went and worked for them, or they put on extra jobs because of seasonal problems—uh, season—seasonable increases in—in business, they’d put on an extra job somewhere to help the dispatchers handle trains, and so, you worked all over. I worked, uh, I don’t know how many different places. I could probably count it up. Not worth it. Cravero [laughs] Um, let’s see. Before the, uh, Atlantic Coast Line Railroad merged with the Seaboard Air Line [Railroad], um, and absorbed the Tavares & Gulf Railroad in 1969, you’d already moved to California at that point. Could you tell us a little bit about what you did out there with the Interstate Commerce Commission? McFarland Well, I—I—I—my first job with the ICC was in Chicago as—as a Railroad Safety and Service Agent, and, uh, in—in that capacity, I—I made what we call “agency checks” and “yard checks,” and we—we had two things: we were looking for compliance with the—with the tariffs, which had the force of law, and we were looking for, um, equipment that was not being used efficiently, and so, the—as the—and—and the other thing that—that in—in ’65, we also were charged with safety, uh, inspections of equipment and things of that nature. However, in—in ’67 —1967, all of that was transferred into the newly-formed [U.S.] Department of Transportation, and so we no longer had any kind of safety obligation, but we still retained the car service, which was car—car efficiency, and—and the tariff and—and regulation, and so, I would go from—to various agencies along, um—in my territory. I had an—had an assigned territory, and I was supposed to visit these agencies on a periodic basis and ver—verify that they were complying with all of the rules and regulations, and that they were not delaying any equipment—and that was being used, and from there I—I was transferred to Atlanta doing the same thing, but, uh—and I stayed there for, uh, about five years, and then I was, uh, promoted and went back to Chicago as Assistant Regional Director there, and in—in that capacity, I was assisting the Re—Regional Director and overseeing all of the people that were doing the kind of work I was just desc—describing, and then, um, in ’73, I was, uh, promoted again and went to, um, San Francisco as, um, Regional Manager, and I had the, uh, responsibility for the 13 western states, plus Alaska and Hawaii. Uh, now, railroads and—and buses and trucks don’t run to Hawaii from the mainland, but—but—so we didn’t do much there, but what—I still had the responsibility for Hawaii and Alaska, and I was overseeing not only the—the people who were doing the work that I was talking about earlier, but I was also overseeing the—the lawyers, who—who, uh, handled the cases that were made and the—and the accountants that were—were auditing the—the books of the various, uh, carriers—motor and rail and barge lines and pipelines, and part of the—part of—and—and when I was in, um, San Francisco, the, um, uh, [Trans-]Alaska Pipeline [System] was being built and we had to oversee that, and the law required, at that time, that—and people usually don’t know this because a pipeline is a common carrier, and so, in order to know what they could charge, you had to know what their costs were to build and maintain the—the pipeline, and to do that, we had to have auditors go in and verify, and about ha—halfway through construction, everybody woke up that this was a nine billion dollar, uh, enterprise, and if we waited ‘til after the fact to—to, uh, audit it, we’d nev—they’d never know what they—what they could po—possibly charge. So we sent a team of auditors up there, and they stayed there for about three years determining the actual cost so that the pipeline could go into—into operation when it was finished, but then, after—I was—I was in San Francisco until 1981, and, um, the—the new chairman that had been appointed by President [Ronald] Reagan, uh, was—knew me, and he brought me into Washington[, D.C.] as Director of the Office of Compliance and Consumer Assistance, and I stayed there until I retired in ’85, but in—in Washington, I had oversight over the—the entire country for all of the things that I’ve been talking about that we did. Plus, uh, a lot of local stuff and—going up to Congress and taking care of that sort of thing. Cravero I read, uh, [clears throat] that the Morse Telegraph Club[, Inc.] used to meet at the [Central Florida] Railroad Museum on [Samuel] Morse’s birthday.<a title="">[3]</a> Could you tell me a little about, uh, the club and how that all came about? McFarland Well, it’s—it—it started, actually, back in the 1930s. Uh, some people that were telegraphers decided that they—that it would be a good idea to make—to have a club, and it was more or less a fraternal organization, at the time. I say “fraternal,” although there are a lot of women telegraphers. Uh, throughout the—the whole history of telegraphy, there—there have been a lot of women telegraphers, and probably, on the railroad, was—may have well have been the first industry that paid women the same wage as men for doing the same job, which was not true in—in—not true even today in many—many cases, but, uh, anyhow, these people got together and—and, as I said, it was just sort of a—I won’t say a drinking club, because it wasn’t that, but it was—it was a social club more than anything else, and then it—it sort of faded away a little bit, uh, and just hanging on by its teeth, you might say, and—and then, um, uh—I’m not sure of the exact dates, but sometime after World War II, when—when telegraphy began to fade away, as I had mentioned earlier on [inaudible] on the railroad, Western Union [Company] had al—already almost gone completely to—to teletype, uh, by that time, and, um, so the—the organization transformed itself into, uh, an historical preservation organization, and the goal of—of the, um—of the organization today is to preserve the knowledge and history and the technology that existed, uh, when the telegraph was in use, and, um, we organize in chapters. Uh, we used to have a chapter in every state and some states had—had, uh, two chapters, but, uh, time has taken its toll and—and, um, now we’re down, uh—for example, the Florida chapter, of which I’m a member, um, encompasses Georgia and—and South Carolina and Tennessee, and—and Alabama. Uh, and so, the membership—the membership hasn’t really declined that much, but the membership of people who actually worked as telegraphers has obviously gone down—way down. Somebody made an estimate, and I don’t know the truth of it or not, but said there were only about 150 of us left in the organization that actually earned a living as—as telegraphers. Um, that may be true, it may not be true. I don’t know, but at the present time, we have probably around 3,000 members and we have around 30 chapters in the United States and Canada, and we—we do demonstrations at—at just about any place that will invite us to do a demonstration, but mostly to local historical societies that have an annual affair and they want something, uh, of, um—that—that has some historical significance, and so they’ll ask us to come and do—do a demonstration [clears throat], and many of these members that we have now have taught themselves to telegraph. They’ve never worked as telegraphers, but they’ve taught themselves to telegraph, and some of the—some of the members are ham radio<a title="">[4]</a> operators, which uses a—a different code, but it’s still Morse Code. It’s an international code, known as International [Morse] Code, as opposed to American Morse [Code], which was the kind that was used on railroads and Western Union and stock markets and, uh, all of that sort of thing. Cravero [clears throat] I understand that it— somehow you, uh—you acquired a piece of the very first telegraph line that stretched all the way out to California. McFarland Yes. Cravero And how’d that—how’d that—how’d you end up acquiring that? McFarland I didn’t think… Cravero [clears throat]. McFarland To bring that today, uh, but we—we have a website that’s—the Florida chapter has a website, and, uh, an outfit in Utah was setting up, um, an exhibit in a museum,<a title="">[5]</a> uh, where at a—at a—at a former Army camp. Uh, when I say former, I’m talking about [American] Civil War-era Army camp [laughs] that was one of the first stations on the Transcontinental Tre—Telegraph Line, and so they wanted some historical reference to the telegraph in their museum there, and, uh, they found our website on the internet and contacted us, and we were able to get them some telegraph instruments and assist them, and some months later, they, uh, contacted us again and said they had come into possession of a link of the original Transcontinental Telegraph Wire—came from Northeastern, uh, Nevada—just across the Utah line in Northeastern Nevada, and a man had found it and had donated, uh, a length of it—I don’t know how much—but had donated a length of it to this museum, and they wanted to know if we would like to have a piece of it, and so they sent us about two and a half feet: about 30 inches of it—a piece about that long, and it’s—it’s—it was a nine gauge, which is heavy, heavy wire. I mean, it’s—it’s almost a quarter, uh—not—not a quarter. Maybe, uh—it’s over an eighth of an inch thick—uh, the—the wire is, and it’s almost impossible to bend it with your bare hands. It’s—it’s that thick, and it’d been laying out in the, uh—in the open in the desert out there near—near the old, uh, Pony Express route and the, um, stagecoach route that went west through there [coughs], and, um, they, uh—they kept, um—they kept it there, um, um—it—laid out there in the desert, and—and doesn’t rust like it would in—here in Florida, you know? It would all be rusted away [laughs] if that had happened here, and so we had that piece of—of the wire, and we—we debated as a—as an organization what to do with it. It wasn’t big enough to use anywhere really. So we wound up—and we cut it into pieces about, um, six inches long and mounted it on plaques, uh, and with a little bit of a history of it on the back of the plaque, and we use that in our demonstrations. Uh, we take it—take it around where—and we—we have these plaques distributed among the membership, so that there’s al—[always] one available somewhere, but it’s very interesting and—and—the interesting—one of the things about it, that the—it was shipped to me—mailed to me in a padded envelope and it was rolled—folded up, and I tried to straighten it out with my hands when I took it out of the envelope. I could not do it. We had to finally put it in a vice and—and hold down one end of it, and finally got it straightened out, and it was so hard that you couldn’t cut it with wire cutters or anything like that. You had to use a saw to cut it, uh [clears throat] but that was what—the wire that was used in the, uh, original Transcontinental Telegraph Line in 8—finished in 1861 [coughs]. Cravero Wow, incredible. Well, let’s see. Before we, uh—give us a little demonstration, do you have anything else that you’d like to add? Any final thoughts or… McFarland Well, I—I don’t know anything off the top of my head. Uh, uh, railroading was an interesting occupation, and I’m sure it’s still is, although I’ve been away from it now for many years. I’ve been retired for 30 years now, so, uh—and I—I’d left the railroad for 20 years before that, so [laughs] it’s been awhile since I’ve been railroading, but, I—I enjoyed the—the—working there, and as I said, I worked as a train dispatcher, which was, um, very complex and complicated job to keep the trains moving. Uh, when I started, an old time dispatcher said, “Oh, there’s nothing to it.” Said, “You just—you just meet ‘em—don’t meet ‘em too close together or too far apart.” [laughs] Well, its’—that’s an oversimplification, but it—it’s what you—that’s exactly what you were trying to do was—is to move the trains over the—over the, uh, territory wi—in—in the most efficient manner possible, and that, you know—and single track and—and—and, uh, with limited, uh, communication. You had no communication—when I started, you had no communication with—with the people on the train other than handing them up, uh—as they pass an open telegraph office you—you could hand them up orders or, uh, messages of what you want to do, or they could throw off something as they went by, but, um, that was an interesting, uh, occupation and—and very demanding, very challenging. Um, somewhat comparable to an aircraft, uh, uh, air—air controller, except that we couldn’t tell the tr—trains to pull up and go around or—or, uh, fly higher and—and not hit—hit the train ahead of them. They were—they were, uh, consigned to the track. They had to stay on the track, so made—made it a little bit more complicated. Cravero Well, I guess, if you would, let’s, uh, give us a little demonstration here. Let me see if I… McFarland Well, I’m sorry… Cravero Can... McFarland That this is not working. I don’t know what it is, but, this—this is the sound [tapping]—this is the sound of—this instrument in—in this is called a sounder, [tapping] and this, uh, box-like object is called a resonator, and the purpose of it is to focus the sound so it can be, uh, heard more clearly, and the can—the Prince Albert tobacco can, we—we now—we call it the “first solid-state amplifier,” because it makes a difference [tapping]. If you can hear the different—[tapping] with and without the can [tapping], and somebody back in the—in the early days of this discovered that you could do that—that, because a railroad agent had more to do than just sit at a desk and listen—listen for this. Uh, he had to be out in the freight warehouse or [inaudible] out—outside with the train going by or something like that, and he needed to be able to hear the dispatcher’s wire when that was happening. So that, um, uh—that really changed the way that you could do that, and—and [inaudible] I never worked a job that didn’t have a can stuck in the resonator like that, and this—this, uh, is just the same thing and—and—[tapping] with a key here. I’ll move this out of the way. This—this has a key [tapping] and that’s the way you sound it, and you make a dot [tap] by closing the key [tap] real quickly and a dash [tap] by holding it down three times as long as you do for the dot, and you [tapping] do that to spell out, uh, everything that you want to say, and, like texters today, we use a lot of abbreviations. As a matter of fact, many of the abbreviations that texters are using were being used by telegraphers a hundred years ago, but, this is the key [tap] and this is the sounder, and then this called a bug, and it’s called a bug because the logo is a beetle, and nobody knows why they chose that as their logo, but they did. It started out—if you—if you worked 8 hours or 12 hours a day, which, uh, up until the Hours of Service [HOS] law went into effect in 1908, that’s, uh—you worked 12 hours a day, [tapping] and you worked 12 hours a day with this up and down motion you—you developed telegrapher’s paralysis. We call it carpel tunnel syndrome now, but it was telegrapher’s paralysis then [tapping], and so they began experimenting what you could do to—to alleviate it, and the first thing they did was turn the key on its side and work it back and forth, and they kept working with it and eventually came into this form, and this is now called a vi—a—a speed key, and I can’t demonstrate because my power somehow or another is not working here today [tapping], but, um, you—the speed key—if—if I want to make a—a series of dots with—with this straight key [tapping], it goes like that, but, with the speed key, I can do it just [tap] with—with one movement of my thumb, and so, that relieved the carpel tunnel, but it also speeded everything up. McFarland And so, those are the—those are the—the principal instruments that—that were used by landline telegraphers, and that—the—this is called American Morse, and it was used, uh, all over—all over the world, really. It—it just changed the whole world, and then, uh, in the late 8—1800s, [Guglielmo] Marconi discovered that you could send, uh, power through the, uh—through the air and—and modulate it and—and make a—a code—send code through the air, and they did—they did that and—using a—a slightly different code. Uh, the—this code—the American Morse Code has a lot of spaces in it, which makes it, uh, uh, a lot quicker, but, with the—when it went to radio, they couldn’t tell whether the spaces were accidental or intentional, and so they eliminated the space letters and everything became, um, uh, the—the tone then—the length of the tone was—determined whether it was a dot or a dash, and that sounded like this [beeping], but, uh—and that’s still used by ham radio operators and all base radio stations, like your local police station and your fire stations and things of that nature, are required by the Federal Communications Commission to identify themselves every hour, and now they use a computer, but every hour on the hour, uh, these—these stations will identify themselves using International Morse Code, sending their call letters—whatever they might be, and that—your television stations, your—your commercial radio stations, they all have to do this—do that, and they do it. So that, uh, America—I mean, the International Morse Code is still in use, uh, quite a bit with ham radio operators and that. American Morse—the last known use in the United States was in 1983, but th—that was just really an anomaly, because it had—by the mid-70s it had pretty much disappeared, but there’s just this one place out in Montana that still was using it until 1983. Cravero That’s fantastic [clears throat]. Mr. McFarland, we really appreciate you sharing your story with us and demonstrating the tools of your trade. McFarland Well, I’m happy to do it. Happy to do it. Cravero Alright. Well, thank you so much. That will conclude our interview and, uh, we really appreciate you being here with us. McFarland Thank you. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Interstate Commerce Commission. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> April 27. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Also called amateur radio. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Golden Spike National Historic Site. </div> </div> A&P grocery abbreviations ACL agency checks Alaska American Morse Code Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Company auditors audits Avon Park Avon Park Atlantic Coast Line Train Station barge lines bugs California carpal tunnel syndrome Central Florida Railroad Museum Chicago, Illinois communication limits communications computer-assisted train dispatching conscription CTS Dallas, Texas Department of Transportation DOT drafts equal pay extra boards FCC Federal Communications Commission first solid-state amplifiers first transcontinental telegraphs Florida Boom Frances Perkins Building freight warehouses Geoffrey Cravero grocery clerks grocery stores Guglielmo Marconi ham radio operators ham radios Hawaii historical preservation HOS Hours of Service ICC International Morse Code Interstate Commerce Commission landline telegraphers landline telegraphs landline telegraphy Montana Morse Telegraph Club, Inc. Nevada Ocala Ocala Union Station Ohio orlando paid vacations Pony Express Prince Albert tobacco cans railroad agents railroad depots Railroad Morse Railroad Safety and Service Agent railroad stations railroading railroads railways regulations resonators Ronald Reagan Ronald Wilson Reagan safety inspections SAL Samuel Finley Breese Morse Samuel Morse San Francisco, California Seaboard Air Line Depot Seaboard Air Line Railroad social clubs solid-state amplifiers sounders South Carolina speed keys stagecoach routes TAPS Tavares & Gulf Railroad telegraph instruments telegraph keys telegrapher's paralysis telegraphers telegraphs telegraphy telephones teletypes Tennessee text abbreviations The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company train depots train dispatchers train dispatching train stations trains Trans-Alaska Pipeline System transcontinental telegraphs UCF University of Central Florida Utah Virginia Warren McFarland Washington, D.C. waybills Western Union Winter Garden wireless telegraphers wireless telegraphs wireless telegraphy World War II WWII yard checks https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/568a371c7d9a15e61420e9cc47801acb.pdf 91becf0a983b24e5f0ec57c4729e3381 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection Alternative Title Lone Sailor Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Orlando (Fla.) United States. Navy Navy Sailors--United States Description Collection of digital images and oral histories related to the former Recruit Training Center Orlando (RTC Orlando) for the United States Navy. The training center transformed raw recruits into highly effective sailors. This process took place over an intensive eight-week training period, commonly referred to as "boot camp." RTC Orlando occupied roughly one half of the former Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando), which was located at present day Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida. Between 1968 and 1994, over 650,000 men and women graduated from RTC Orlando. Contributor <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/24" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Naval Training Center, Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project</a> <a href="http://digitalcollections.net.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">About the Project</a>." UCF Community Veterans History Project, RICHES of Central Florida, University of Central Florida. http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/. "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral History of William Reuter Alternative Title Oral History, Reuter Subject Veterans--Florida Navy Orlando (Fla.) Simulation Description An oral history interview of William Reuter (b. 1961), who served in the U.S. Navy from 1979 until 2012. Reuter was born in Camden, New Jersey on April 21, 1961. He served in Libya during the Action in the Gulf of Sidra and in the fjords of Norway. Reuter achieved the rank of Captain, earned a Legion of Merit, and served as Executive Officer (XO) at the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (NAWCTSD) at Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando. This oral history interview was conducted by Daniel Bradfield on March 10, 2014. Interview topics include Reuter's experiences as XO at NAWCTSD, the simulation industry, Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando, the Lone Sailor Memorial Project, and applying to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:38 Background 0:01:40 Joining the Navy and active duty in warzones 0:05:20 Executive Officer at Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division 0:09:35 Simulation industry 0:15:05 Post-Navy career and lessons learned from naval experience 0:16:59 Naval Training Center Orlando and the Lone Sailor Memorial Project 0:19:07 National Aeronautics and Space Administration Abstract Oral history interview of William Reuter. Interview conducted by Daniel Bradfield at Central Florida Research Park in Orlando, Florida on March 10, 2014. Type Moving Image Source <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Requires <a href="http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/" target="_blank">Adobe Flash Player</a> <a href="http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp" target="_blank">Java</a> <a href="https://get.adobe.com/reader/" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/109" target="_blank">Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project Collection</a>, UCF Community Veterans History Project Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Has Format 12-page digital transcript of original 21-minute and 23-second oral history: <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a>. Interviewed by Daniel Bradfield, March 10, 2014. UCF Community Veterans History Project, DP0014907. Audio/video record available. UCF Community Veterans History Project, Special Collections and University Archives, University of Central Florida Libraries, Orlando, Florida. Conforms To Standards established by the <a href="http://www.loc.gov/vets/" target="_blank">Veterans History Projects</a>, Library of Congress. Coverage Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division, Naval Support Activity, Orlando, Florida Baldwin Park, Orlando, Florida Creator Reuter, William Bradfield, Daniel Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2014-03-10 Date Issued 2014-09 Date Copyrighted 2014-03-10 Format application/website application/pdf Extent 137 MB 165 KB Medium 21-minute and 23-second DVD audio/video recording 12-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Daniel Bradfield and William Reuter. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/veterans/" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/VET" target="_blank">UCF Community Veterans History Project</a>, UCF Digital Collections, University of Central Florida <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/" target="_blank">The History</a>." Lone Sailor Navy Memorial History Project. http://cfnavyleague.org/lone-sailor/ "<a href="http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/" target="_blank">The History</a>." RTC Orlando. http://rtcorlando.homestead.com/. <a href="http://www.lonesailorfl.com/" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/VET/id/286/rec/2" target="_blank">Reuter, William</a> Transcript Bradfield Today is March 10th, 2014. I am interviewing [William] “Bill” Rotto[sic]—Reuter, who served in the United States Navy from 1979 through 2010? Reuter 2012. Bradfield 2012. Um, they, uh—Mr. Reuter served during the Cold War and completed his service as a… Reuter Captain. Bradfield Captain. Um, my name is Daniel Bradfield. We are interviewing Mr. Reuter as part of the UCF [University of Central Florida] Community Veterans History Project and as research for the creation of the Lone Sailor Memorial Project. We are recording this interview at [Central Florida] Research Parkway in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Reuter, can you please start us off by telling us when and where you were born? Reuter I was born in [April 4th,] 1961 in Camden New Jersey. Bradfield Okay. Uh, what did your parents do for a living? Reuter My dad owned a mobile home business in, uh, Key West, Florida, which is where I grew up, and, uh, my mother, uh did all kinds of different things, including deal with us. Bradfield Uh, what did you, uh—do you have any brothers or sisters? Reuter I have two younger brothers and, uh—one of them in Pennsylvania and the other down in the Keys. Bradfield Growing up, where did you go to school? Reuter I went to school in Key West. Uh, grew up in a trailer park, because we owned trailers and trailer parks, and so, uh—but, uh—all—all throughout my life in Key West. Bradfield Um, what did you do before entering the Navy? Reuter Uh, basically, I was a student—I was a high school student, and received an [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] ROTC scholarship out of—out of Key West High School, and then went straight to UF [University of Florida] to, uh, start my journey in the Navy. Bradfield Um, why did you join the Navy? Reuter I wanted to fly airplanes. I wanted be an astronaut. Bradfield Um, do you have any other family members in the service? Reuter I had an uncle that was in the Air Force, uh, but that’s about it. Bradfield Uh, how did your family feel about you joining the Navy? Reuter Very, very supportive. Bradfield Where did you attend boot camp? Reuter As an officer, my boot camp was really going through the Reserve Officer[sic] Training Corps program at UF. So I didn’t attend a formal boot camp, like many of the enlisted sailors that you’ve interviewed. Bradfield Did you ever see active duty in a warzone? Reuter Uh, only on, uh, Line of Death in Libya, and, uh, in the Norwegian fjords, uh, against Soviet, uh, reconnaissance, uh, and bomber aircraft, but not in the current [Persian] Gulf conflict.<a title="">[1]</a> Bradfield Um, do you have any stories you’d like to share about those encounters? Reuter Well, I mean, it’s always fun seeing people that, you know, think differently from you, and back in the [19]80s, certainly, we saw the Soviet Union as, uh—as sort of an enigma. It was very, very mysterious, because they were in this whole different, you know, behind the—Steel Curtain, you know? And so, uh, we had a lot of curiosity, and—and, uh, we’d look back at each other in airplanes, and here we are up in the middle of nowhere, and we just con—continue to have that kind of curiosity. Most of my stories having to do with, uh, stress and overcoming stress in the service have more to do with landing aircraft—landing aircraft on aircraft carriers at night. Those sorts of things. Because those are often, uh, scarier than most other things that an aviator would encounter. Bradfield Do you have any stories about any close calls while trying to land on an aircraft carrier? Reuter Certainly. Uh, well, I can tell you that, uh, at one point, I was—I had had a, uh, problem—what we call a “bleed air fuel leak,” which can create a fire, and so I had lights in the cockpit that were saying that there was excessive heat in the engine compartment. Uh, and it was—it’s what they call “one step short of a fire.” And a fire out on the aircraft carrier, when there’s really nowhere else to go, and, In this case, the aircraft carrier was so far off of any coast, that we were doing what you call “blue water op[eration]s.” “Blue water ops” meaning you’re going nowhere but back to the carrier, or the aircraft is going in the ocean. So we had to think real quick[sic]. We had just launched off catapult, so we were still very heavy, and we couldn’t land on the carrier right away. Carrier read—wasn’t even ready to catch us right away. So, uh—so we had to do, uh, some— real, uh, quick emergency things. Cockpit was getting very, very hot. Uh, they estimated it was around 130 degrees, uh, in the cockpit, and, um, we had to, uh—had to bring it back aboard the carrier, and—and, uh, did that, and got out of the airplane, and went down, and had me a cheeseburger. Because, uh, that’s one of the ways that we aviators deals[sic] with—deal with stress. Bradfield Did you receive any special commendations or medals? Reuter Uh, lots in the Navy, certainly. A couple of Legions of Merit medals, uh, which I am very, very grateful for. Uh, most of my accolades though, I can tell you—like most other sailors, I believe, would say—and that is: it’s not only due to them personally. None of these awards, uh—though you wear them as a personal decoration—a decoration, most of the time, they are as a result of the team you were on and the people you served with. Uh, But I was very fortunate to get a—a good number of accolades, uh, in the Navy, Including two commands. Uh, my—my biggest role, before this role down here at NAWCTSD [Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division], uh, was—it’s Commanding Officer and Chief Test Pilot of the squadron up at [Naval Air Station] Patuxent River, Maryland, Where I flew as an [McDonnell Douglas] F[/A]-18 [Hornet]<a title="">[2]</a> test pilot. Bradfield Uh, when were you assigned to NAWCTSD? Reuter I got here in, uh, January of 2008. So—and as I—as I moved into the role as Executive Officer, which is the second-in-command. Bradfield Did you know the—did you know about the region, militarily or other, before coming to NAWCTSD Orlando? Reuter All I knew about Orlando, uh, other than knowing a little bit of what NAWCTSD did and the—the—I did not know or appreciate the whole modeling and simulation cluster we had here. I knew there was a base,<a title="">[3]</a> when there was a boot camp,<a title="">[4]</a> and everything like that, and the nuke school,<a title="">[5]</a> But I did not know a lot about what NAWCTSD did, other than produce the aviation simulators that I was fortunate enough to fly. Bradfield What were your first impressions of the base?<a title="">[6]</a> Or—or the surrounding area? Reuter Well, I was very impressed with the—the—the—the proximity of everything. I was impressed that we were really close to the Army and we were really close to the Air Force and Marine Corps, and I was astounded with the intimacy of the relationship with the University of Central Florida, uh, and—and continued to enjoy that relationship throughout my tenure at NAWCTSD. Bradfield How did that compare to other bases you have been stationed at? Reuter There’s absolutely nothing like this area right here. There—there are no—no entities, within the [U.S.] DOD [Department of Defense], that duplicate what we have here. What we have here is a clear synergistic effect, not only based on proximity. You can put anybody in a building next to another entity and not gain the kind of synergies we get here from the partnerships and the relationships that we have across academia, and industry, and now these DOD activities. Bradfield What were your first days at NAWS—NAWCTSD like? Reuter I came in with—wearing civilian clothes, ‘Cause I was actually a, uh—in a—in a class. So this class had you wearing civilian clothes. So people didn’t know that I was the guy that was gonna come in and eventually be in charge. So it was actually very cool, ‘cause I could have this sort of Brubaker approach to it, Where [Henry] Brubaker was the guy that[sic] went into the prison as the warden and he went in as an inmate. So I kinda went in in that underground kind of incognito way, and it was great, ‘cause I got to hear the conversations. I got to understand a little bit more about the culture/ but it is the most unique place that I have ever served in the Navy. Bradfield What were your primary responsibilities while you were at NAWCTSD? Reuter Well, I was the Executive Officer, who is the second-in-command, so responsible for pretty much everything that happens, uh, at NAWCTSD, and the other thing that a lot people don’t rec—recognize is that when you’re the commanding officer, or the Executive Officer, of NAWCTSD, You are also the Executive Officer, Commanding Officer of NSA Orlando—the Naval Support Activity Orlando, which is the base. So all of the stuff that deals with the gates, and the guards, and any of the sort of anti-terrorism measures, or any of that kind of stuff when it comes to protection, You deal with in capacity as CO or the XO, so—Commanding Officer or Executive Officer—of NSA Orlando. So you really had two hats and two jobs. Bradfield So, eh, what was a typical day like, um, when you were, uh, Executive Officer? Reuter Well, a typical day as Executive Officer, uh, had a lot to do with, uh, a series of meeting, most of which were people that[sic] wanted a decision about one thing or another. Some of them were informational, but we tried to keep those to a minimum. Most of the time, I was given direction and—and providing guidance to people that were trying to, uh, make decisions. Uh, I—I tried to give them enough context to how I would decide, so that they could make decisions on their own and have my full faith, trust, and confidence, as they did so. So a lot of different things go on as you can imagine. Running, uh, a warfare center and a base, and so, there’s, uh, everything from acquisition stuff that has to be decided, to what, uh—to—to where we’re gonna—to what color carpet we’re gonna pick out. There’s just a lot of different things [laughs] that—you[?] pro—and anything in between that spectrum. Bradfield Um, can you tell us about the types of projects you worked on and what they aimed to accomplish? Reuter The things that I’m most proud of, and the thing that people need to understand is that: simulation—we talk about it, kind of, trying to create an environment that is the real thing, and, in this environ—in this world today— in the way that we train our airmen, our sailors, our soldiers, and our Marines, We have to create some really, really immersive environments, in order to generate the kind of suspension of disbelief. For people to go in there and actually get proficiency from these environments. I mean, there’s[sic] so many people playing video games and they’re dealing with such cool graphics and immersive effects that you really, really need to wow them, in order to create that environment, and in the aviation community, it becomes even harder, because you’re dealing with very dynamic technology and it’s not as easy to do that. So what we decided to do in the Navy was really, really take hold of this whole idea of increasing the fidelity of our simulations. Whether it be better visuals, better motions, better all kinds of different things that you can do to generate, uh—to—to give them an environment where they could actually be trained, and so, we were—I was—I was fortunate enough to be there, from ‘08 to ‘12—from 2008 to 2012—where we made huge investments that we still continue to make, but it was really the—the tip of the iceberg, for the money that’s going into simulation and that is being taken out of a lot of the live exercises that we used to do that cost a lot of money and that required a lot of infrastructure, and you had to sustain that infrastructure. So that’s a—a cost that is per—you know, in perpetuity. So we’ve have really changed our mindset on simulation. That’s been the most important thing that I was a part of—of being able to do that in, uh, aviation, surface, subsurface, and other communities. Bradfield In what ways have the simulation projects at NAWCTSD impacted other branches of the military? Reuter So the Air Force, uh, is very, very big on simulation, as well. They’re—we do a lot of collaboration through—not only of the acquisitions that we do, you know? We—we go out and we buy a simulator, and we go to some of these industry partners that are in this area and around the country, and, in fact, the world, and we buy, you know, an aircraft simulator or we buy a ship simulator, or something like that, but what’s really cool is the collaboration that goes into the technical side of this, before we ever ask industry to give us a simulator. We inform each other, through symposia and the like, to understand better the science of learning, to understand better where the technology is going, So we can be leaning forward as a DOD—and not only as a DOD, but as other agencies around here. We still work with the [U.S.] Department of Homeland Security and with other agencies that have benefit from this technology training their workforce—whatever it might be. So that collaborative energy, and the fact that we have papers, and we have symposia that sort of continue to nurture that collective understanding of the technology and its merit in the science of learning. That’s what moves this needle forward for all of us. So that NAWC—it’s not only NAWCTSD, or PEO STRI [Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training and Instrumentation], or any of those entities. It is all those entities and their collective, uh, IP—intellectual property—to get together that gets moved forward. Bradfield What do you think the future holds for simulation training in Central Florida? Reuter Si—there is—there’s really no limit to what we can do with simulation and training in Central Florida. The fact that we have grown it, based on DODs demand, is very fortunate, but it is certainly not the limit to the application of this technology into other fields. We talk about transportation, we talk—modeling and simulating transportation, In order to understand where chokepoints are, to, uh, train people in dealing with different crises, to train emergency first responders, to train medical professionals. We’re already doing that at the VA [Veterans Health Administration] Sim[ulation] Learning[, Education and Research Network National Simulation] Center down here at Lake Nona, where [Lake Nona] Medical City is. We talk about construction simulation, So that we avoid, uh, costs of engineering changes and things like that, once we have gone into the construction phase, through just So many—education. There is so many applications of this simulation technology in—in moving forward. All of these industries. Bradfield What do you think are the most important achievements or contributions of the simulation projects to technology and to the future of technology? Reuter I think that the—the most important contribution was to give some other technologies an application that actually could affect an end-product. So if you think about digital media and graphics, alright? and some of the, um, some of the, uh—the stuff we’re doing with, uh—with extensive graphics—much—much higher definition graphics—There’s are a lot of different applications for those types of technologies. What we did was bring those technologies into, uh, a simulation, into creating a virtual environment, Such that we could add proficiency to people. We can do that in so many different ways, not only across DOD, but others, as well. Bradfiels When did you leave the Navy, and what did you do after you left? Reuter So I left the Navy in September of 2012, um, just—Not even two years ago now—And started my own consulting practice. I’ve also continued to work in the simulation industry and work with both companies in—in the simulation industry, as well as with folks like the [Metro Orlando] Economic Development Commission, and—and the Mayor’s office, and people that are moving forward this understanding of how simulation can grow and affect our economy. I was fortunate enough, in the very beginning of, uh—right after I retired, to assist in writing the strategic plan for modeling and simulation for Central Florida, and I can tell ya, more than anything we have a center of excellence. We need to grow and nurture it, even beyond the DOD, such that DOD just wants to be around it, because they recognize the kind of ecosystem we have here. Bradfield What values or characteristics of the Navy do you believe made an impression on your life? Reuter Well, he standard answer, of course, would be: honor, courage, and commitment, and they, uh—and those are our watchwords in the Navy, and the—the caliber of people that I have met—that I have lifelong friends, uh, that[sic] I’ve been 28 years in the Navy. You’ve met people in so many different stages of your career, and you continue to be in touch with them, and so, that sort of, uh—that’s sort of such a nurturing environment, and the fact that we were off and off of the aircraft carrier, and test flying up in Patuxent River, Maryland, Launching into some pretty hairy situations, uh, and—and came through it, and shared a beer at the end, uh, Just continues to nurture those relationships, and we’ve seen kids grow up together, and we’ve had a lot of fun, and so that’s been the most valuable piece for me. Bradfield How has the NTC Orlando base or Central Florida region changed since the time you spent there? Reuter In my case, of course, that would be a little NA [not applicable], But I can tell you that I’ve, uh—because I didn’t spend the time at NTC—But I can tell you that, um, you know, what has been done at [Lake] Baldwin Park is phenomenal. No question about it, it has definitely one of the better repurposing of a base environment that, uh, has taken place in our entire country, when it comes to BRACs, and how people have responded to Base Realignment and Closure. Uh, I think what’s unfortunate—and what was unfortunate for me and my family—was when we came here and saw that there was really no evidence that the Navy had been there, and so hence, the rationale and the driver behind the Lone Sailor Navy Memorial Project. Bradfield What do you think former naval personnel would like to see or be reminded of when they revisit—when they revisit the site of the base and the LS[M]P memorial? Reuter I think, more than anything, they want to imagine—re—reimagine, especially ones that were stationed there, what that Grinder was like, to recognize that that is hallowed ground, and to be able to tell their descendants about the time that they spent here and the pride that they took in getting through that. Whether it had been the nuke school or whether it was RTC [Recruit Training Center Orlando]—you know, because there were a lot of Navy entities here, at that time, and so, they—people need to understand what the Navy meant to Orlando during those days. It was a big Navy town. People started and—and made businesses grow, as a result of the Navy being here during those times, and so, to have—and we’ve got such a tremendous amount of support from people way out of town, That have roots here in Orlando based on their time here at RTC, and so somehow, we have got to—got to memorialize that, and give them a chance to re-experience that and pass that on down the generations. Bradfield Is there anything else you would like to share about your Navy experience? Reuter Well, I tell ya, I’m just—I was very blessed from the word go. Um, you know, you’re talking to a kid that—that grew up running on coral in Key West, And—often barefoot—had a dream to be an astronaut. Ended up going through the whole program, into Test Pilot School, finalist for NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], ended up coming here into a place that I had no idea how special it was, and I—I’m grateful for the relationships that we have built, and I have built personally, as a Navy guy, with the folks at UCF with president [John C.] Hitt and a lot of others in this community, uh, that truly, truly are a partnership community, and, uh, it was the best way to—to leave the Navy. Understanding, that one, my command was in my good hands and the Navy was in good hands but also to come out into this tremendous community that[?], um, I’ve learned more in the last four years being in the Navy, than, uh, arguably then I learned in the la—in the ten prior, Uh, for sure. Bradfield When did you start your astronaut training? Reuter Uh, you—basically, what you do is you—as you—when you become a test pilot and you go through Test Pilot School, You are then, uh, afforded the opportunity to apply to NASA, and the thing—fortunately or unfortunately—when I was through that training and was applying for NASA, We had—had encountered a couple of really tough things. The [Space Shuttle] Challenger disaster, uh, certainly setback some—in 1986—se—or 1985<a title="">[7]</a>—setback some things pretty big, and then the [Space Shuttle] Columbia disaster was really the one that was tough. I mean, I had two buddies on the Columbia that day: uh, [William] “Willie” [Cameron] McCool and Dr. David [McDowell] Brown, uh, and that really slowed the manifest of space shuttle launches. So—so it was harder to get through the eye of the needle there, when it came to NASA. They weren’t taking as many people—all that kinda stuff. So I was a finalist three times. I—I’m very grateful for that, But at the end of the day, uh, somebody had other plans, and I have no problem with that, and I am very, very grateful that I got to come here. Bradfield Alright. Well, thank you very much. Reuter Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity. <div> <div> <a title="">[1]</a> Iraq War. </div> <div> <a title="">[2]</a> Now manufactured the Boeing Company as the Boeing F/A-18 Hornet. </div> <div> <a title="">[3]</a> Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando. </div> <div> <a title="">[4]</a> Recruit Training Center (RTC) Orlando. </div> <div> <a title="">[5]</a> Nuclear Power School. </div> <div> <a title="">[6]</a> Naval Support Activity (NSA) Orlando. </div> <div> <a title="">[7]</a> Correction: January 28, 1986. </div> </div> Action in the Gulf of Sidra aircraft aircraft carriers airplanes anti-terrorism astronauts aviation aviation simulations aviation simulators aviators Baldwin Park Base Realignment and Closure Bill Reuter bleed air fuel leak blue water operation Boeing F/A-18 Hornet BRAC Challenger disaster Chief Test Pilot cold war college colleges Columbia Columbia disaster Commanding Officer commendation commendations Community Veterans History Project CVHP Daniel Bradfield David M. Brown David McDowell Brown education Executive Officer F-18 Henry Brubaker Key West Key West High School KWHS Lake Baldwin Park Legion of Merit Libya Line of Death Lone Sailor Memorial Project LSMP McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet medals memorials military education modeling monuments NAS Patuxent River NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration Naval Air Station Patuxent River Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division Naval Support Activity Naval Support Activity Orlando Naval Training Center Naval Training Center Orlando NAWCTSD Norway NSA Orlando NTC Orlando outer space Patuxent River, Maryland pilots planes Recruit Training Center Recruit Training Center Orlando Reserve Officers' Training Corps ROTC RTC Orlando science of learning Soviet Union Soviets Space Shuttle Challenger Space Shuttle Challenger disaster Space Shuttle Columbia Space Shuttle Columbia disaster SU terrorism Test Pilot School test pilots U.S. Air Force U.S. Navy UCF UF Union of Soviet Socialist Republics universities university University of Central Florida University of Florida USSR veterams veteran wars warzones William C. McCool William Cameron McCool William Reuter Willie McCool XO https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c120e160eb2e8fc0ce6ac7264dbc12fa.pdf df7400b08bd76fd5ff1eea67da3d1323 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oviedo Collection Alternative Title Oviedo Collection Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Oviedo, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Oviedo began on the south shore of Lake Jessup as a settlement called Solaria's Wharf. Some of its early settlers include Dr. Henry Foster, Joseph Watts, and Steen Nelson. Citrus and celery dominated the area's farmland, although Central Florida suffered a severe freeze in 1894. Oviedo suffered another disaster in 1914 when a fire wiped out much of the downtown section. Disaster hit again in 1929 with the Wall Street Crash and the beginning of the Great Depression. That same year, Oviedo's fruit crops were decimated by a fruit fly infestation. Another fire destroyed the Wheeler Fertilizer Plant in 1946. Nonetheless, Oviedo continued to grow, with new paved roads going to Geneva and Chuluota and the opening of the Citizens Bank of Oviedo in 1948. In 1949, Oviedo began receing once-a-day bus serviece to Orlando from Greyhound Lines. By 1950, Oviedo was the second largest town in Seminole County, following Sanford. The Oviedo City Hall was built that same year and in 1968, Florida Technological University (present-day University of Central Florida) opened, bringing new residents to the area. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 41: Oviedo, with Dr. Richard Adicks</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2494. Robison, Jim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/796757419" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. [Place of publication not identified]: [publisher not identified], 1979. "<a href="http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68" target="_blank">History</a>." City of Oviedo, Florida. http://www.cityofoviedo.net/node/68. "Oviedo Began as Solaria's Wharf." The Oviedo Heritage, June 30, 1977. Contributor Cepero, Laura Lynn Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Ray Coverage Oviedo, Florida Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/147" target="_blank">Oviedo Historical Society Collection</a>, Oviedo Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Moving Image A series of visual representations that, when shown in succession, impart an impression of motion. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III Alternative Title Oral History, Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III Subject Oviedo (Fla.) Citrus--Florida Citrus fruit industry--Florida Packing-houses--United States Agriculture--Florida Celery Description An oral history interview of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III, a descendant of the Wheeler and Lawton families in Oviedo. The interview was conducted by Desta Lee Horner at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on June 18th, 2019. Some of the topics covered include the family history of the Lawtons and Wheelers, the significance of the pine timber industry in Oviedo, the career path of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler, Sr., the role of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler, Sr. in the incorporation and development of Oviedo, withstanding freezes and destruction of crops and trees, shipping citrus on the railroads and the decline of the citrus industry in Oviedo, working in packing houses, varieties of citrus production in Oviedo, transitioning from citrus to celery production, how packing houses served a social function, building a railroad on muck land and dealing with derailed trains, how Seminole County was formed and the consequences of its formation, George Kelsey and enforcing the law in a small town, eccentric characters and interesting stories from Oviedo, how churches influenced life in Oviedo, how the Oviedo lights became an urban legend, how being a bedroom community shaped the City of Oviedo, how the Oviedo Fire Department evolved, his experience with race relations in Oviedo, how Alafaya Trail became a paved road, deciding on where to build Florida Technological University, and his closing remarks. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 The family history of the Lawtons and Wheelers 0:02:58 The significance of the pine timber industry in Oviedo 0:03:38 The career path of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler, Sr. 0:07:30 The role of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler, Sr. in the incorporation and development of Oviedo 0:09:32 Withstanding freezes and destruction of crops and trees 0:10:24 Shipping citrus on the railroads and the decline of the citrus industry in Oviedo 0:14:30 Working in packing houses 0:16:35 Varieties of citrus production in Oviedo 0:18:11 Transitioning from citrus to celery production 0:25:25 How packing houses served a social function 0:26:35 Building a railroad on muck land and dealing with derailed trains 0:30:51 How Seminole County was formed and the consequences of its formation 0:39:08 George Kelsey and enforcing the law in a small town 0:40:41 Eccentric characters and interesting stories from Oviedo 0:43:32 How churches influenced life in Oviedo 0:45:17 How the Oviedo lights became an urban legend 0:47:10 How being a bedroom community shaped the City of Oviedo 0:48:29 How the Oviedo Fire Department evolved 0:50:46 How being a bedroom community shaped the City of Oviedo (continued) 0:53:14 His experience with race relations in Oviedo 0:57:25 How Alafaya Trail became a paved road 0:59:19 Deciding on where to build Florida Technological University 1:01:28 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III. Interview conducted by Desta Lee Horner in Orlando, Florida, on June 18, 2019. Type Moving Image Source Wheeler III, Benjamin Franklin. Interviewed by Desta Lee Horner, June 18, 2019. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/128" target="_blank">Oviedo Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 1-hour, 3-minute, and 31-seconds oral history: Wheeler III, Benjamin Franklin. Interviewed by Desta Lee Horner. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Five Points Operations Complex, Sanford, Florida Florida Technological University, Orlando, Florida Holler Chevrolet, Winter Park, Florida Memorial Building, Oviedo, Florida Nelson and Company Packing Plant, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo, Florida Oviedo Depot, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo Drug and Meat World, Oviedo, Florida Creator Wheeler, Benjamin Franklin III Horner, Desta Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> Date Created 2019-06-18 Date Copyrighted 2019-06-18 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.83 GB 281 KB Medium 1-hour, 3-minute, and 31-seconds audio recording 31-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Provenance Originally created by Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III and Desta Lee Horner and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Robison, Jim. "<a href="https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1991-01-27-9101260420-story.html" target="_blank">War Forced Lawtons to Leave Georgia Children's Families Played Big Role in Building Town</a>." Orlando Sentinel, January 27, 1991. Accessed July 23, 2019. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1991-01-27-9101260420-story.html. "<a href="http://oviedohs.com/" target="_blank">Oviedo Historical Society</a>." Oviedo Historical Society, Inc. http://oviedohs.com/. Adicks, Richard, and Donna M. Neely. <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/oviedo-biography-of-a-town/oclc/5890131" target="_blank">Oviedo, Biography of a Town</a>. S.l: s.n.], 1979. Robison, Jim. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/147" target="_blank">Around Oviedo</a>. 2012. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/J4b2TL_y3oM">Oral Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin Wheeler III</a> Transcript Horner My name is Desta Horner from the Oviedo Historical Society and I’m here with Ben Wheeler, whose family had been residents in Oviedo for many generations. We’re gonna talk about the history of Oviedo. This interview is being conducted at the University of Central Florida in collaboration with the RICHES program. Ben Wheeler’s been around a long time. Tell me something about you and your family. Wheeler Well, my earliest ancestor t—to come here was a Civil War widow named Narcissa Melissa Lawton . She had several children, one of which married my great-grandfather, John Thomas Wheeler. Um, they moved to Dade City and he had a stroke. He was a sawmill man. And he had a stroke and died. So R. W. Lawton, who would have been Narcissa’s brother, sent one of the Aulins—I think it was Theodore —to Dade City with a two-wheel oxcart. And loaded them up, whatever little bit they had, which probably wasn’t much, and brought ‘em back to Oviedo [sniffs]. Horner Who married Wheeler in order to get the Wheeler in your name? One of the Lawtons married a Wheeler? Wheeler Yes. Clara Isabelle Lawton married John Thomas . Um, she was—no. She wasn’t a widow. Narcissa was a widow. Horner Mhmm. Wheeler And this was her daughter. Horner So she married a Wheeler. Wheeler Yes. Horner And that—was that Ben Wheeler I? The Ben Wheeler? Wheeler His name was Benjamin Franklin Wheeler, Sr. Horner How many more Benjamin Franklin Wheelers are there? Wheeler Two more. Horner Two [laughs]. Wheeler My father and me. Horner Oh. Okay. So the, uh—so the Whee—how did the Wheelers get here? I mean, the Lawtons got here after the Civil War. Where did B.F. Wheeler, Sr. come from? Wheeler W—w—well, John Thomas, who was B.F., Sr.’s father,… Horner Ah. Wheeler …came here after the Civil War. And he claimed a homestead and sawed all the timber off of it. And once the timber was gone, he let it grow back. And that’s when he moved to Dade City[, Florida]. Horner Well, the timber was always a big—particularly pine timber… Wheeler Mhmm. Horner …was always important in Oviedo. What did they do with the pine—with the pine? Cut it up? Saw it up? What do you do? Wheeler It was used mostly for lumber. The first thing they did was chip it for turpentine. And once the trees had g—given up all their turpentine, then they would cut ‘em and make lumber out of ‘em. Horner Were there a lot of sawmills? I read one place where there were five sawmills in the area. I… Wheeler I couldn’t swear to the number, but there were several. Horner In order to slice those into planks for… Wheeler Right. Horner …houses. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner Kay. Well, Wheeler set up a business. Who did he set up a business with? What—what business did he get into? Wheeler Well, his father died when he was 11. And he had a younger brother and a mother to support. And R.W. Lawton brought him back here. And he just took any kind of work he could get [clears throat]. One of the things he said he did was hoe orange trees. There was a big grove out there where Winter Springs High School is now. And he said he would walk out there, hoe trees all day and walk back for a penny a piece. And there was a—the Coast Line—the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad had a—a depot agent here named Mr. Crutchfield. And he and my grandad took a shine to each other. And he let him hang around the depot. And he taught him Morse code. Let him help sweeping[sic] and whatever needed to be doing[sic]. And my grandfather ended up being the depot agent when Mr. Crutchfield retired. Well, as depot agent, he made a princely sum of $15 a month, which r—really—a lot of people couldn’t even get a job. But he got that. And that’s when he endeavored to buy the property on—south of Lake Jesup, where the big brick house is. Horner Where the Evans-Wheeler house … Wheeler Right. And he obliged to pay $5 a month on a mortgage. Well, he said there were a half a dozen old tangerine trees on the place. And started taking care of ‘em. And about the second year he was attending to ‘em, they yielded six boxes—which, a box is two bushels—of tangerines. And he took ‘em down to Nelson Brothers Packing House and sold ‘em and got $5 a box for ‘em. Now, that’s like six months’ worth of mortgage payments. And he said that got his attention. And as time went by, um, Mr. Fred Nelson wanted to get out. And so, my grandfather bought his portion of Nelson Brothers. And later, Mr. Steen Nelson wanted to get out. So he bought his portion and then he named it Nelson and Company. Horner But, actually, it was Wheeler who owned it. Why didn’t he change the name to Wheeler? Wheeler Because the brands they had were already established. And he didn’t want to start over. Horner So everybody up North that this was—the fruit was shipped to… Wheeler Right. Horner …knew that name: Nelson. Wheeler The brand name was White Rose. Horner When there was a White Rose label… Wheeler Mhmm. Horner …you knew it came from a good place [laughs]. W—well, what business did your—your grandfather get into if he owned a—the citrus packing house, Nelson and Son—and Company? What else did he do? Wheeler He was a real forward-thinking man. And he saw opportunity where a lot of people didn’t. He, um—he was instrumental in getting Oviedo incorporated as a city. It was one square mile. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler But the relations with Sanford as the county seat were such that he didn’t foresee Oviedo getting a fair shake out of the county. And so, he got it—got Oviedo incorporated. He was also on the county commission. He, um, was the driving force behind the county buying what’s now called the—well, what is it called? The Five Points Complex ? Eh, the original purpose of it was to have, um, indigent home and, um, pauper’s cemetery. That grew into being an old folks home. And they grazed—they raised all their own food. And then years later, the—the county began moving their facilities out there. Their fire department and courthouse and jail and animal control. Horner And sitting in the middle of all of that official administration is still what was the old folks home. Wheeler Yes. Horner It’s still there. Wheeler Yes. Horner It’s never demolished. Wheeler It’s now part of—it’s now the home of the Museum of Seminole County History. Horner One of the things about the citrus industry in Oviedo was the freezes that would happen regularly. How did people withstand the destroyed[sic] of—of their crop? And sometimes even destruction of their trees? Wheeler Well, all of ‘em didn’t stand it. Um, there was a disastrous freeze in 1890-f—December of ’94 and February of ’95. And i—it was—it was destructive enough that a lot of people just gave up and moved. Uh, there are stories about houses with dishes still on the table and food in ‘em. And th—they were just left. People just le—just lost heart and left. B—but the—the few that remained eventually did come back. Uh, my grandfather being one. Mr. Lee—C. S. Lee being another one. And there’s probably some names that I don’t recall now. Horner What about the Clonts’s? Were they doing c—uh, cel—um, citrus at that time? Wheeler No. The Clonts’s came in 1924. Horner Mkay. Mm. Well, when you have this packing—and Wheeler—I mean Nelson and Company packed fruit… Wheeler Mhmm. Horner …in these crates to send north. Um, how could you send them north? On the steamboats that originally plied the s—Lake Jesup? Or how did they get them up north to New York? Wheeler I’m sure at some point they shipped ‘em on a steamboat. But my recollection is the railroads. Horner And which railroads did… Wheeler Well, there were two that came to—to Lake Charm. That was the Atlantic Coast Line and there was the Seaboard Air Line. And they both had s—spurs that went down into Black Hammock to the celery pre-coolers and washhouses. At one time, there was[sic] two trains a day—one on each railroad out of Oviedo—of nothing but produce [sneezes]. Excuse me. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler There’s a lot of, uh, confusion about the two railroads because they later merged and became Seaboard Coast Line. And then they was[sic] incorporated into the family lines. And then it was Seaboard’s system. And then it became CSX [Corporation], which is what it is now. Horner When did those trains stop running through Oviedo? ‘Cause there’s no trains there now. Wheeler I’d say in the early eighties. Horner Why didn’t we need the trains anymore? Wheeler Well, all the produce traffic had gone to trucks. The—the railroads were so contrary about the service that people got tired of it. And, uh, at that time [sniffs], the Northern railroads—the Pennsylvania, the B&O —those lines were having terrific union problems. And our stuff would get to Washington, D.C. and sit. Horner So Oviedo was in trouble. They couldn’t get it to market. Wheeler Right. Right. Horner Well, there was another train in Oviedo. The Dinky Line. Wheeler That was the Seaboard. Horner Was part of the Seaboard. Wheeler Yes. Horner Mm. Wheeler It had previously been the Florida Central and Peninsular [Railroad] [sniffs]. And the tracks were so raggedy that they were forever and a day getting derailed. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler And the local folks nicknamed it “The Friends Come and Push” [laughs]. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler But a lot of people think the whole system was the Dinky Line and it was not [sniffs]. Horner Just the part that ran from Oviedo to Orlando. Wheeler Right. Horner Okay. How long did the Dinky Line last? That’s not… Wheeler Well, it became part of the… Horner Ah. Wheeler …CSX. And so they all came up about the same time. Horner Okay. Why did our—we don’t do and sell and pack citrus anymore in Oviedo. And it was the big moneymaker. What happened? Wheeler Because of the freezes and the greening virus [sniffs]. Horner Shut down the whole citrus… Wheeler Shut… Horner …part. Wheeler … down the whole thing. Statewide production is down 75% now. Horner Um, you were talking about—the trains would go to the packing houses. What—how were the packing houses run? Who did the—you just bring it in from the fields and what do you do with it? Wheeler Bring the fruit it from the field? Horner Mhmm. Wheeler Yeah. Horner Just pluck it off the tree? Wheeler And picked and—and put in boxes. Those two bushel boxes. Brought to the packing house. And then it was graded. And washed. And cleaned. And packed by size into shipping containers. And those went on the railroad. Horner Just loaded them up on the railroad. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner But it—yeah. I heard about that. Putting them in by size. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner If it was a bunch of tangerines, you could fit 120. Wheeler So many. Depending on the size. Um, and that was determined by the USDA . Horner Mm. Wheeler You had to have an inspector all—all the time. And the sizes were [sniffs]—on tangerines they were 80s, 120s, 176s, 210 and 246. Horner Wow. They must have been small tangerines. Wheeler They were. They were little bitty fellas. Horner [laughs]. What if you had a grapefruit? Wheeler Now, we didn’t pack many grapefruit. I’m not real up on the s—sizes on them. I know there was a 40. And a 48. I think the other one was 72. Horner [Inaudible]—those are the small grapefruit. Get 72. Wheeler Oranges—round oranges were 80s, 100s, 120s, um… Horner Did that mean that we had different varieties of oranges? Wheeler Oh, yeah. Horner We do. Wheeler Sure. Horner What varieties did we make—did we s—grow? Wheeler Well, we had tangerines. Dancy tangerines. Later, they developed the Orlando tangelo. And we had a world of them. And then, there was the early oranges like the Hamlin. And the pineapple. And the Parson Brown. And the Valencia. But they all come off at different times [sniffs]. Horner Well, that’s nice. You don’t have to pack ‘em all at one… Wheeler No. Horner …time. Wheeler No. You can’t pack ‘em all at once. Horner [laughs]. Who did the work? Who w—who worked in the packing house? Who picked the—the fruit? Wheeler Well, you had picking crews. And you’d have a foreman. And he’d go out and recruit help to pick the fruit. And then, the packing house had their own crew that packed. And graded. And put crates together. And everything that it takes to run a packing house [sniffs]. Horner Did they live in Oviedo? Wheeler Everybody did. Oviedo was never—until this latter day—a bedroom community. If you l—if you lived in Oviedo it was because you worked in Oviedo [sniffs]. Horner Something to do with agriculture. Wheeler Unless you were a merchant or a preacher. Or something like that. Yes. Horner Um, but by the mid—beginning of the twentieth century, there was a shift from citrus to celery. Who brought celery to Oviedo? And why was Oviedo such a good place to grow celery? Wheeler Well, the first place it came to was Sanford. And at that time, they di—they thought that you couldn’t grow celery on muck. It had to be grown on sand, which that side of Lake Monroe there where Sanford is was ideally suited to that. And then the King Brothers decided they were gonna try it in Oviedo. And we had some sand land, but we had more muck than we did sand. And so when they found out they could grow it on the muck, then—it expanded rapidly then. And celery was high dollar crop. Number one: it was considered kind of exotic [sniffs]. And number two: once the [Great] Depression hit, there was a tremendous dis—demand for celery because they used it in soup kitchens. It was, you know—it’ll stretch anything that you put it with [sniffs]. Then, about the time the Depression was over, World War II came along. And for reasons that I never understood, celery was not considered, um, necessary for the war effort. And so they didn’t impose any price ceilings on it. And the price of celery just went through the roof during those war years. And people made money just like going to town on a Saturday. Um, in 1929, Seminole County’s celery crop was worth about $15 million. Just the celery crop. Horner Well, I’d heard we’d been called the C—Celery Capital of the World for—[laughs]. Wheeler Well, we were. They didn’t—there was no, uh, Zellwood. There was no everglades. The celery came from Seminole County. Horner Well, when you’re growing celery—it sounds like celery is a rather delicate… Wheeler It is. Horner …crop to grow. Wheeler And it takes a lot of water to grow it. And we had ample water supplies. We had the flowing wells, uh, to keep the fields wet. And it did well here. Horner And there were plenty of celery fields around Oviedo. Wheeler Oh, yeah. Horner [laughs]. Well, when you, uh—when you laid—put the celery out—I’ve heard that you have to put the celery out first in small plots. Then you pick ‘em up and replant them. Wheeler Yes. You plant seed beds and raise the plants up until they’re big enough to set out. And then you transplant ‘em to a—to the field. Horner And let ‘em grow. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner Well, how did they get enough water to handle? Wheeler They developed a system of subsurface irrigation, which simply put was r—r—rows of tile under the ground. And the tile was not cemented together. It was just joint to joint. And you’d turn those wells on. And anywhere that there was a joint, water would seep out. Horner Sort of like a drip line… Wheeler Yeah. Horner …only large and… Wheeler Mhmm. Horner underground. Wheeler And you could raise and lower the water level by, um, a system of stops. At the end of each row you had a—a concrete pocket and holes every so often. And however high you wanted the water to go, you stopped off the holes. And, of course, it would seek its own level. Horner Um, [inaudible]. [laughs]. Well, once your celery is grown in this muck land and you decide to harvest it, then what do you do with it? Wheeler You harvest it. Horner [laughs]. Yep. You’re gonna harvest it. What—but you gotta get it up north. How you gonna do it? Wheeler Well, [clears throat]… Horner Get to market [laughs]. Wheeler …for many years, it was cut by hand, uh, and put in boxes. And then it went to this celery washhouse, where it was washed and packed. And, again, there were sizes for it. And then they would put it through a precooler bath to get it cold. And pack it into boxcars [sniffs]. And those boxcars had bunkers. One at each end. And they’d load it down with ice. And then they had a chipper there. And they would blow chipped ice all, eh—all over the top of the celery. They didn’t—they didn’t—a car wouldn’t hold it to the ceiling. There was about three feet from the top tier to the ceiling. And they’d blow that full of that chipped ice. And the cars had fans on ‘em that ran by a belt drive. And that circulated the cool and kept ‘em cool until they could get where they were going [sniffs]. Horner So the celery was crisp when it got there. Wheeler Yeah. It had to be. Horner Otherwise, it would be all wilted. If you take it out of the field and you stuff it in a crate and haul it north, it’s gonna be all wilted [inaudible]. Wheeler Oh, no. No. They didn’t do that. Horner [laughs]. You mentioned that there was a, um—a celery packing house out at Lake Charm. And then there was another celery packing house in Oviedo. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner So you had two of them operating at the same time. Is that because there was so much celery? Wheeler Yeah. And there was[sic] more than two. Um, there were at least two more in Black Hammock. I’m not sure exactly—there might have been three. But, yes. There was a—well, how many pre-coolers would it take to make a trainload of celery [inaudible] every day? Horner I don’t know. Wheeler Well… Horner [laughs]. Wheeler …just imagine. Horner How many cars would there be in a train? I mean, do they haul a hundred cars? Or… Wheeler It’d depend on the time of the year. But the trains weren’t near as big as they are now. There’d probably be ten or twelve. Horner Y—you told me that you used to go over to the packing house yourself when you were a young man. Wheeler Yeah. Horner What did it—what was it like? And what were the trains like? Wheeler Well, the packing house was just about the nerve center of town. If you were looking for somebody, you’d meet ‘em at the packing house. ‘Cause there was always somebody there. And we didn’t have, you know, City Hall and police department. And fire department. And Town House Restaurant. And all of that. You went to the packing house. You’d buy you a soda and sit down and sit down there with a package of Lance crackers and wait for ‘em to come if they wasn’t[sic] already there. Horner [laughs]. And the—and so they’d come and load the train. The packers would load the train. Everybody else is sort of sitting and, uh—or—and coming and going. And socializing. Wheeler But it was the same when the packing house wasn’t running. It was a meeting place. Horner Ah. Well, what about the trains themselves? Were they modern and useful? Wheeler Well, they weren’t modern like what we have now. Um, like I said, they had fans and belt drives for refrigeration [sniffs]. The… Horner You—you told me that the—the trains were—uh, the t—the tracks on the trains weren’t that good. Wheeler They weren’t. One of the big obstacles to settling this area was, um, wet, low ground. And the tracks—if you see the route of either one of those railroads, they snake like this. Because they go from one high spot to the next to stay out of that muck. And they put the ties down on the bare sand. They didn’t have any ballast or anything. And, uh, the rail was light [sniffs]. So the trains were slow. They did often times get off the ground—get on the ground. But that’s all there was. Horner Well, when the trains would get on the ground or derail like that, what do you do? I mean, everything stops [laughs]? Wheeler Until they get it back on the rail. Back then, they didn’t have cranes. And, uh, that’s—railroad had some wreckers, but they were too heavy to come out there on that light track. So it was a matter of a gang of big, strong men. And jacks. And wooden blocks to jack that wheel up. And then the locomotive would pull it just enough to get it guided back over on the track [sniffs]. Horner So the boxcars had to be lifted up, so to speak. Wheeler Yeah. Horner And then placed back on the track. Wheeler Yeah. And oftentimes there would be, um, places that were missing spikes and things like that. They’d have to nail it back down so it wouldn’t roll again. It wasn’t—it was a case of the rails rolling over—is what derailed ‘em. Horner No wonder the trains stopped coming [laughs]. Wheeler Well, that’s a—that is an ironic story. From the time the rails were laid in the 1880s until about 1980, those rails were the same rails that they put down originally. And rail is measured by the weight of a three-foot section. And those light rails were—some of ‘em were sixty pounds and some of ‘em were seventy pounds for three feet. And after all that time, they decided to re-lay the rails. And they put hundred-pound rail all the way from Sanford to Oviedo. Now, the Seaboard had done theirs earlier. But this was the—the Atlantic Coast Line. And we found out later the government gave ‘em a grant to upgrade this line. And then like two or three years later, they got approval to abandon it. And they took all that up. And took it and moved it. Used it somewhere else [laughs]. Horner [laughs]. So the whole tra—the whole tra—rail line from Oviedo to Sanford… Wheeler Yeah. Horner …was torn up. Wheeler Yeah. Horner [inaudible]. Um, when we talk about Oviedo and we talk about Seminole County, neither of them used to exist. You were mentioning, uh, that your—was it your grandfather who helped get Oviedo… Wheeler Mhmm. Horner …incorporated as a town? Wheeler Mhmm. Horner Where did Seminole County come from? ‘Cause it wasn’t originally Seminole County. Wheeler Well, you have to understand that because of the citrus and the celery and the other farming, Sanford swung a pretty big stick at that time. And they had tried [clears throat] two different times with a referendum to move the county seat from Orlando to Sanford. And failed. And Sanford—the people in Sanford thought that world emanated from Sanford. They were conceited and, um—I don’t know what else to call it. They… Horner Arro… Wheeler …thought… Horner … —arrogant. Wheeler They thought—yeah. Arrogant. And Sanford was supposed to be it. And it was it, as long as the things were coming by the steamboat. ‘Cause that was as far as they could come. But when the railroads came, that changed. And then along came Colonel Henry Sanford . And he was determined he was gonna make Sanford something. And in 18—about 1875, there was an infamous murder trial in Orange County that was coming up between the carpet baggers and the locals. The carpet baggers had imposed a head tax on cattle. And this is right after the Civil War, now. And [clears throat], of course, a carpet bagger was in power. They had—they were the sheriff and done all of that. And he sent out some men to the outlying areas to collect that cattle tax. Well, they took the sheriff, tied him to an old bottom plow and dropped him in Lake, uh, Kissimmee. Horner So the sheriff’s now dead [inaudible]. Wheeler Sheriff’s dead. And there’s this murder trial coming up of who supposedly did that. And all of a sudden, the courthouse burned down. Horner Now is this the courthouse in Sanford or the courthouse in… Wheeler No. It was… Horner …Orlando? Wheeler …Orlando. There was no courthouse in Sanford. Horner Oh. But now it’s burned down. Wheeler And it burned down on the eve of this trial. Well, whatever evidence they had, of course, was gone with it. So the question arose as to building a new courthouse. And Henry Sanford went to Orlando to the Board of County Commissioners and proposed that, uh, the courthouse be built in Sanford, inferring that that’s where it should have been all the time. And he would give the land for the courthouse. Provided, of course, it was built in Sanford. Well, Mr. Jacob Summerlin , who was a leading citizen there, stood up and said, “Well, people are used to doing business in Orlando. And I think they ought to continue to do business in Orlando. And I’m gonna loan the county $10,000 to build a courthouse. And they can pay me back or not.” Well, of course, that dashed the hopes of—who wouldn’t turn—who wouldn’t, in that day and time, turn down that kind of money for a courthouse? Well, that was the second time—no. That was the third time they had been thwarted. There were two referendums before that that didn’t garner enough support. So the courthouse was built in Orlando. And, not to be outdone, they formed—Sanford formed a Divide the County committee. And there were six or eight of the real prominent citizens in Sanford that spearheaded it. And they elected Forrest Lake as the, um, Representative for Orange County. Horner To the State Legislature. Wheeler To the State Legislature. And in 1913, he had gathered enough support that he put a bill through to create Seminole County. And according to the f—r—record, it passed way in the middle of the night on a—almost the last day of the session. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler And [clears throat] he rushed it over to the governor for f—signature before anybody could catch on to what was happening. And, uh, that became Seminole County. Well, Orange County was fit to be tied because it—he was their representative, too. But he didn’t let any of them know [laughs] what he was doing. So that’s how Seminole County got here. Horner So we became our own county because we were a piece of Orange [County]. And then we tricked ‘em into letting us have our—into having our own county. Wheeler And in the effort to get that done, uh, there was a group of citizens in Oviedo, including a former c—Orange County commissioner, who did not think it was a good idea. And didn’t support it. And when [clears throat] the thing passed, the new commissioner set out to exact retribution from all the outlying areas that didn’t support it. Horner Uh, oh. Wheeler And… Horner [inaudible]. Wheeler … that’s why we had the kind of roads and schools we had. Because they didn’t get any money. Horner So they—they strangled Oviedo… Wheeler Yep. Horner …in effect… Wheeler Yep. Horner … from all the county money… Wheeler Yep. Horner …for improvements. Wheeler Oviedo. Chuluota. Geneva. Horner They didn’t get any road money. Wheeler No. Horner No school money. Wheeler And that did not change until the Supreme Court got into the segregation issue. And took the funding authority away from the—from the county commission and the school board. And mandated that they had to make a level playing field. And that was in the late sixties. Horner Well, Oviedo was a pretty small town well into the seven—the… Wheeler Yep. Horner … seventies. I mean, 800 people. Maybe 1,000. Wheeler Oh. Horner Small town. Wheeler It was about 2,500. Horner By the time we get to late-seventies. Wheeler Right. It was one square mile on the map. Um. Horner We didn’t even have a police department. Or a fire department. Wheeler We had a volunteer fire department. And we had one policeman. And he was also the constable for the unincorporated areas. He was empowered to enforce the law. Horner So what we called today a sheriff. He would have been a deputy sheriff for this area. Wheeler Probably. Yes. Horner But now we don’t use the term co—constable. Wheeler No. They’ve outlawed that office. Horner Who was the constable? Who was this… Wheeler George Kelsey . Horner Ah. He’s pretty much of a, uh—a legend in Oviedo. Wheeler Yeah. He—he served for a long time. Uh, and he was also the city police. Horner And did he do a good job? Wheeler He knew what was going on. Horner He knew what was happening. Wheeler Yeah. Horner And everybody’s family. And everybody’s [inaudible]… Wheeler Yeah. He had eyes and ears everywhere. Horner [laughs]. Um, he was a character. Are there any other important people in Oviedo that ought to be mentioned? Any other eccentric characters? Wheeler [sniffs]. Well, there was a few of ‘em that were kind of humorous. But n—none to the extent that George was. Mr. T.L. Lingo had an insurance agency in the back of that, uh, building that they just tore down on Broadway Street. What used to be the drug store. And he would send his bird dog across the street to the post office to get his mail. And they’d tie it up and put it in the dog’s mouth. And he’d bring it back over there to him. And, uh, he’d send a note down to the grocery store in the middle of the block for a pound of steak. Or for hamburger or whatever. And they’d wrap it up and give it to the dog. The dog would bring it right on back there to him. Horner Didn’t eat the steak? Wheeler No. No. Horner Well, you’re a Lawton way back along. What about the Lawton family? You’re related to them. A couple of generations ago. Wheeler Yeah. Well, Professor Lawton—T.W. Lawton , for whom the school is named, uh, was the—probably the first person to get a college education in, uh, Oviedo. And he rode the Dinky [Line] back and forth every day to get to school at Rollins [College] [sniffs]. Now, I don’t know whether he bummed or if he bought a ticket but… Horner [laughs]. Wheeler …that’s how he got there. He became, I think, the second superintendent of schools for the county. And he… Horner Yeah. The first elected one. The first one was appointed by the governor… Wheeler Right. Horner …when we finally became the… Wheeler Right. Horner …the county. But… Wheeler And, uh, he served until about 1953. So it was thirty-some years. When he got ready to retire, somebody figured out that if each child in the county would give a penny, they’d have enough to buy him a new car. And so they all put their pennies in and bought him a brand new Chevrolet sedan when he retired. Horner Appreciated gift. Wheeler I’m sure. Horner Where’d—where did the people in town go to church? ‘Cause I’ve always heard that the churches were very important in Oviedo. Wheeler If the churches were behind it, it would happen. Well, [clear throat] there’s two things that a—any little small town has a plethora of. And that’s churches and gas stations. They might not have a grocery store. And they might not have doctor. But they’d have churches and gas stations. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler There was the First Baptist of Oviedo, the First Methodist of Oviedo [sniffs]. And then there was, um [clears throat], Church of God, um… Horner And, of course, the black churches [inaudible]. Wheeler I’m trying to think of the name of the one—oh. Mission Road Baptist Church. Antioch. Fountain Head. Um, there were two more down in Lawtonville, but I can’t think of the names of either one of ‘em. One of ‘em’s still operating. But church was a—a big, uh, factor in what went on in town. Horner D—did the Methodists and Baptists cooperate? I mean, they lived—they were… Wheeler Yeah. Horner …fairly close together. Wheeler Yeah. The early days, they had service every other Sunday. And whatever Sunday it was—that the Methodist Church, everybody went there. Then the next week, they’d go to the Baptist Church. Horner [laughs]. [clears throat]. Well, to get on a bit of a lighter side, uh, when it comes around Halloween, we always hear talk about the spooky Oviedo lights. Wheeler Yeah. Horner We’re famous for having the spooky Oviedo lights. What were they? Or are they, if they still exist? Wheeler There are [clears throat]—they still exist. But the reality of ‘em has been blown way out of proportion. Back then, if you went down there to the bridge on a bright moonlit night, you could see a sparkle in the water. And it was phosphorous. And that became i—i—it was just a curiosity to go and see. And, of course, that bridge is way out beyond anywhere. And the kids’d like to go there. Um, but then it got to be the Oviedo lights. And if we went to Winter Park or Sanford, we’d hear the kids talking about the Oviedo lights. And, oh, there was this ball of fire coming down the road. And, um, there was somebody hung in the water tower. Um… Horner Was that true? Somebody hung in the water tower? Wheeler No. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler None of that was… Horner None of… Wheeler … true. Horner …that. Wheeler None of that was true. But you couldn’t convince anybody that i—I’d say there was more chemical enhancement… Horner [laughs]. Wheeler … that went on than anything else. Horner [laughs]. Oo. Okay. S—Since you are so knowledgeable—mm—uh, lived in Oviedo and your family lived there, is there anything else that’s unique or special about Oviedo that you remember? Wheeler [sniffs] Well, it’s kind of lost this now, since we’re not a bedroom community any more, but there was a community that engulfed everybody. And there were any number of things that were citizen-initiated that we would’ve never had otherwise. The swimming pool for one. The Memorial Building for another. The doctor’s clinic for another. The Woman’s Club started the first garbage collection. The Woman’s Club funded the first, um—I don’t know what you’d call it now. We called it a rescue wagon. You know, a van with oxygen and sh— Horner Ah. Wheeler First responder kind of thing. Horner ‘Cause there was[sic] no EMTs… Wheeler No. Horner …so… Wheeler The firemen manned it. Um, you were asking me a while ago about how did you reported[sic] a fire. Well, there was a big whistle up on pole by the firehouse. And you went there and pushed the button. And you could hear it all over town [sniffs]. And, uh, people would come. The men would come and they’d tell ‘em where the fire was. And—and they’d go to it. It usually amounted to saving the house next to the house that was on fire. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler Because a lot of those houses were tarpaper and wood and all. And they just went up like a box of matches. Horner Mm. So do you just come up—the old fashioned thing. Do you come up and pump the pump? And spray the water on the house next door? Wheeler Well, not quite that primitive. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler Um, in 1947, the City bought a Ford truck. It was the first one they could get after the war. And the young returning veterans built a tank—a water tank on it. And put a pump on it. And that was the first firetruck. And then, in 1957, the City bought another, uh, commercial-grade firetruck. So we had two. But it wasn’t uncommon at all for a fire whistle to blow and somebody to rush down there who didn’t know where the fire was. And didn’t know how to operate the pump. And they’d get in the firetruck and go dashing off somewhere. Somebody’d have to catch ‘em and bring ‘em back [laughs]. Horner [laughs]. Eh, they c—they couldn’t pick up the microphone and say… Wheeler No. Horner …“Dispatch. Where you going?” Wheeler No. There wasn’t any of that. Now, George Kelsey did have a radio connected to the sheriff’s department. But that was it. Horner [laughs]. Well, I was trying to think if there was anything else I didn’t—it is interesting that Oviedo was so close-knit that they did sw—the swimming pool, the Memorial Building in f—in memoriam to the Second y—World War people. And, uh, the canning m—m— Wheeler Yeah. Horner …kitchen. Wheeler That was a… Horner The community canning kitchen. Wheeler …a thing for the war effort. But that Memorial Building and the clinic—both were built with as much donated labor and materials as there was p—probably more than what was purchased [sniffs]. Dudas gave the lumber. Um, Bob Ash was a brick mason. He laid all the block. Joe Leinhart had lumber that he had cut in Black Hammock years ago. He furnished all the w—trim and the woodwork for the inside of the building. He probably put it up, knowing him. Um, it was a—it was a concerted effort because Dr. Martin had retired. And he had to move to Orlando in order to retire because people wouldn’t quit coming. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler His office was right beside his house up there where the Baptist church is now. And people just wouldn’t take no for an answer. And so finally, he moved. And that was another thing my grandfather was a[sic] instigator in. He called together the leading businessmen in town. And they said, “The only way we’re ever gonna get a doctor is to build a place for him to practice.” And so, the major—mostly the major farmers in the area went together and raised some money. And then set the volunteers to work. Horner And they built the clinic. Wheeler And they built the clinic. Horner You know? ‘Cause the—the farmers at that time would have been the leading lights… Wheeler Yeah. Horner …of the community. Wheeler Yeah. Oh, yeah. Horner ‘Cause they were the ones bringing in the income. Wheeler Mhmm. Horner How did the African-American community and the white community get along with each other? Wheeler [sniffs] I don’t ever remember any—any discord of any kind except for that one incident in high school. And that was quickly put to rest. And we all just got along. Horner I heard a story once from a—a man who said that, uh, Benjamin Wheeler bought him a car. ‘Cause he was—he didn’t have the money. And he needed it because he was the crew chief. And he needed to get the guys to work. Do you remember that story? Wheeler Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was Buster Garrison. And he—he was an entrepreneur. He hauled his crew to the grove. And then he’d put sides on his truck and load it with oranges. And haul ‘em to the juice plant. And, of course, old trucks were always… Horner Breaking. Wheeler … something wrong with ‘em. And he finally went to my dad and said, “Mr. Frank. I mean I need me a new truck. And I ain’t got no money. And I don’t want you to tell me no [laughs].” Horner [laughs]. Wheeler And what did—what did Frank Wheeler say? Horner He got him a truck. Wheeler [laughs]. Horner I don’t know what their arrangements were. I’m sure he paid some on it. But Buster was a, um, hugely industrious person. To work night and day. Do anything you want him to do. Gladly. And my dad just saw the worth of it. He sent him over to Holler Chevrolet. And I’m sure he called Mr. Holler and said, “Get this man a truck.” That’s the way things worked back then. Um, years later—years later, I had a mirror get knocked off of my Chevrolet truck. One of the outside mirrors. And I went to the place to get it seen about. And I was in my work clothes. And I had my little dog with me. And the only thing I had for a leash was a piece of hay bailing twine about so long. So I made a leash out of that. And me and her were walking around outside. And the—the service writer said, “Well, I don’t know if we’ve got the part. And I don’t know if we’ve got time to put it on.” And all this, that and the other. I said, "I’ll wait.” ‘Cause this was in Winter Park, now. And there was—I’ll never forget this. There was a salesman. He had rose-colored glasses and a pink ultra-suede coat on. Wheeler [laughs]. Horner And he came out there to smoke a cigarette and took one look at me and my dog and wheeled around and went back inside [laughs]. Wheeler [laughs]. Horner And so help me, it wasn’t a minute or two, Mr. Holler came out. And he walked over there to me. And we shook hands and started talking. You know, just passing the time. And all of a sudden, that service writer came out there and said, “Mr. Wheeler, we gon’ get you taken care of [laughs].” Wheeler [laughs]. Horner You looked like you didn’t have two nickels to rub together. Wheeler That’s… Horner He didn’t… Wheeler That’s… Horner He didn’t know who he was dealing with. Wheeler That’s what they thought. Horner [laughs]. And you’re one… Wheeler I… Horner … one of the most important families in town [laughs]. Wheeler Can’t judge a book by its cover. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler I guess the one story I would tell again, because it’s so funny to me. Horner [clears throat]. Wheeler Our county commissioner in this district was B.C. Dodd . He lived out there in Goldenrod. And at that time, the commissioner got to say where the road money was spent in his district. Well, I want so and so fixed. Or it’s—you know, whatever. So Mr. Dodd stood up and he said, “I wanna pave that road from the city limits of Oviedo to the county line.” Which is now Alafaya Trail. It was just dirt before that. And the commissioner from Sanford jumped up and says, “I don’t know why you wanna do that.” Said, “Ain’t nobody ever gonna use it.” [laughs]. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler And he says, “You hush, Pope. I didn’t say anything about what you did in your district. And this is what I wanna do.” And how prophetic that decision turned out to be. Because where Mitchell Hammock Road crosses Alafaya was the city limits. And from there on out this way was dirt. Clay. Horner And he was the only one that was farsighted enough to see you’re gonna need her. Hm. Wheeler That was—that was in the early sixties. We had heard about what was gonna be the new space university, but nothing had actually happened. Horner Ah. Yeah. ‘Cause they hadn’t chosen the site yet. Wheeler Right. Horner Boy. He was taking a gamble. Wheeler Yeah. He was. Horner Maybe that’s why Dodd Road is named after him. Wheeler Well, he was a—he was a prominent figure. And he was huge. He was, uh, like 7 foot something tall. And he wore—they’ve got one of his shoes in the Goldenrod Museum. And it’s—I’m not kidding. It’s like that. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler He was a giant. And, of course, that went along with his demeanor. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler At that time, they were trying to decide where to put FTU . And one of the sites they looked at is where Seminole Community College is. And another site they looked at was there at—across from Lockwood Road and [County Road] 419. And Mr. C.S. Lee offered to give ‘em the land if they’d put it there. Horner [laughs]. Wheeler But Mr. Billy Dial in Orlando, and a few more like that, th—they wasn’t gonna have that. So FTU got put where it is. And as a conciliation prize, we got the Iron Bridge sewer plant and Seminole [State] College. And where they are is no accident. Horner Uh huh. Wheeler There is still some animosity there. Horner So we’re here at UCF. And it’s out of the farsightedness of Mr. Dodd. And… Wheeler Well, he… Horner …we got a way to get here. Wheeler …he played a role in it [sniffs]. Horner Well, is there anything else that you would like to add about Oviedo? Something that you really appreciate about living in that town. Growing up in that town. Wheeler The people. I had so many good friends. And—and a lot of people worked for my dad. And, of course, I got to know them. And, uh, I miss ‘em tremendously. And I miss that sense of community. Horner The whole downtown is gone now. Wheeler The whole downtown is gone. But what’s really gone is that fellowship. If you needed something that somebody in the community was—that was their forte, you just went to ‘em and said, “You know, I need a well put down.” “I need a survey made.” “I need, you know, whatever it was.” And, uh, they all worked together [sniffs]. I wrote a column for The [Seminole] Voice one time about they all worked together. And I can’t find it anymore. But I named a couple of dozen things that happened that way in Oviedo. Horner Somebody needed their fellow man. Wheeler Well, we need a clinic. We need a city hall. We need a swimming pool. We need garbage service. There was just a—a lot of things that—and they would have never happened any other way. Because we weren’t going to get any support from the county. And the city didn’t have any money. Horner Hm. Yeah. Well, thank you, Ben, for talking to us. And letting us… Wheeler My… Horner …know… Wheeler …pleasure. Horner …about Oviedo. And you’re—you’re a fount of knowledge. Wheeler I’ll probably go home and say, “Dang. Why didn’t I tell ‘em that?” Horner [laughs]. I’m sure you will. Alafaya Trail Andrew George Alexander Kelsey Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Basil Corbett “B.C.” Dodd bedroom community Benjamin "Ben" Franklin Wheeler III Benjamin Franklin "Frank" Wheeler, Jr. Benjamin Franklin Wheeler Black Hammock Buster Garrison Charles Simeon Lee citrus industry Clara Isabelle Lawton Desta Lee Horner Dinky Line Five Points Operations Complex Florida Central and Peninsular Railroad Florida Technological University Forrest Lake Henry Shelton Sanford Holler Chevrolet Iron Bridge Water Pollution Control Facility Jacob Summerlin John Thomas Wheeler King Brothers Memorial Building Narcissa Melissa Nelson and Company Packing Plant Nelson Brothers Packing House orlando Oviedo Oviedo Depot Oviedo Drug and Meat World Oviedo Lights packing houses pine timber Sanford Seaboard Air Line Railroad Seminole County Steen Nelson T.L. Lingo Theodore “Judge” Aulin, Sr. Thomas Willingham Lawton turpentine University of Central Florida Wheeler-Evans House William Henry “Billy” Dial https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/a81571b2c1c7634fc94c05455471d37a.pdf f47a27bdadb8690b4463e25649729cc6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Parramore Speaks Collection Description Parramore Speaks is a collaborative project between the City of Orlando and the University of Central Florida’s RICHES dedicated to preserving the rich, multifaceted histories of the Parramore community. Creator Boye, Sarah Thompson, Eric Subject Orlando (Fla.) Parramore (Orlando, Fla.) Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Mediator History Teacher Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Argrett, LeRoy. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/23768317" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">A History of the Black Community of Orlando, Florida</a>. Fort Bragg, CA: Cypress House Press. 1991. Accessed July 9, 2025. Porter, Tana Mosier. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/9969982893" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">“Segregation and Desegregation in Parramore: Orlando’s African American Community.”</a>. The Florida Historical Quarterly 82 (3): 289–312. Accessed July 10, 2025. Thompson, Geraldine Fortenberry. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/52899041" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orlando Florida.</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia. 2003. Accessed July 10, 2025. Brotemarkle, Benjamin D. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/489437317" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Crossing Division Street : An Oral History of the African-American Community in Orlando.</a>. Cocoa, FL: Florida Historical Society Press. 2006. Accessed July 10, 2025. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/eonUfG-h-lM">Oral History of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr.</a> Title Oral Memoirs of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. Alternative Title Oral History, Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. Subject Orlando (Fla.) Parramore (Orlando, Fla.) African Americans--Florida--Orlando Teachers--Florida Educators--Florida Segregation--Florida Description An oral history interview of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. The interview was conducted by Eric Thompson at the Melrose Center at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida, on March 5, 2025. Rayam, born February 4, 1951, is a native of the Parramore neighborhood in Orlando and a successful opera and concert singer. Some of the topics covered include his family's move to Orlando in search of better educational opportunities, his experiences growing up in Parramore, and the influence of teachers and mentors such as Masie Cosby and Jessie B. Demps Smith. Rayam shares memories of attending Callahan Elementary School and Jones High School and reflects on the role that educators played in shaping his musical ambitions. He describes community life centered around churches such as Mt. Olive AME Church and Saint Mark AME Church and remembers the vibrant cultural and commercial activity in Parramore. He mentions streets such as Green Street, Jackson Street, Jefferson Street, and Orange Avenue, as well as businesses like Pyramid Cleaners and the Carver and Lincoln Theaters. He reflects on community figures including Chief Wilson, who attended the 1964 New York World’s Fair, as well as other key figures like Queenie Powell, Augusta Rogers, Alma Polope, and Georgia Wallace. He also discusses the work of Jessie B. Demps Smith at the Magnolia School. Rayam recalls his later studies at the University of Miami, the legacy of segregation, the importance of entrepreneurship, and the changes he has witnessed in Parramore over the decades, including poverty and homelessness. Abstract Oral history interview of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. Interview conducted by Eric Thompson on March 5, 2025. Table Of Contents 00:00 Moving from Bellville to Orlando and settling in Parramore 02:51 Childhood memories and family life in rural Florida 05:12 Discovering his voice and early musical education 08:00 Attending Jones High School and some of his influential teachers and singers 12:13 Attending the University of Miami and beginning his opera career 14:58 Family talents and activities outside of music 16:16 Memories of old Parramore and its community businesses 19:29 Reflections on economic decline and loss of Black-owned businesses 21:43 Defining the geographic borders of Parramore 24:44 Challenges in Parramore today, including poverty and homelessness, and local support 26:40 The role of churches in supporting the community, and his family’s involvement in the church choir 28:12 The strength and leadership of women in Parramore 28:51 Remembering educators and community leaders who shaped his life, working with special needs children, and the definition of “community” 31:31 How the sense of community in Parramore has changed, the legacy of Parramore and how to rebuild the community 35:25 Remembering Chief Wilson and his lasting influence Creator Thompson, Eric Rayam Jr., Curtis Joshua Source Raya, Jr., Curtis. Interviewed by Eric Thompson, March 25, 2025. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/229" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Parramore Speaks Collection</a>, <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/180" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Parramore Collection</a>, <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/20" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orlando Collection</a>. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/46" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>.; <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a </a> Type Moving Image Coverage Orlando, Florida Jones High School, Orlando, Florida University of Miami, Miami, Florida Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2025-03-05 Date Copyrighted 2025-03-05 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.7 GB 253 KB Medium 38-minutes and 21-seconds video recording 16-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. and Eric Thompson and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Boye, Sarah Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Argrett, LeRoy. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/23768317" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">A History of the Black Community of Orlando, Florida</a>. Fort Bragg, CA: Cypress House Press. 1991. Accessed July 9, 2025. Porter, Tana Mosier. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/9969982893" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">“Segregation and Desegregation in Parramore: Orlando’s African American Community.”</a>. The Florida Historical Quarterly 82 (3): 289–312. Accessed July 10, 2025. Thompson, Geraldine Fortenberry. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/52899041" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Orlando Florida.</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia. 2003. Accessed July 10, 2025. Brotemarkle, Benjamin D. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/489437317" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Crossing Division Street : An Oral History of the African-American Community in Orlando.</a>. Cocoa, FL: Florida Historical Society Press. 2006. Accessed July 10, 2025. Transcript Thompson All right. Today's date is Wednesday, March 5th, 2025. My name is Eric Thompson, and I'm interviewing Curtis Rayam as part of research with the University of Central Florida RICHES Project, in cooperation with the City of Orlando's Parramore Speaks Project. This interview is being conducted at the Melrose Center at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida, and Mister Rayam has agreed to allow this interview to be recorded. First, could you start off by telling us your full name? Rayam Curtis Joshua Rayam, Jr. Thompson All right. And can you tell us about your childhood and where you grew up? Rayam Well, I was born in 1951—February 4th, 1951—in a farming area called Bellville, Florida, in Hamilton County, Florida, up near the Georgia line. Thompson And when did you and your family first arrive in Orlando? Rayam We came to Orlando in 1958 to stay. That is to say that we had been to Orlando on several occasions. My parents were divided about either being city dwellers or farming people. So, uh, my mother won out in 1958 because she was, um, very, very interested in her children getting a better education than she did. So, we moved to Orlando finally in 1958. Thompson And why did they come here? Just for education? Rayam Education, uh, employment, of course. I mean, we had our farming, but uh, they were looking for a new experience. They both had been farmers all of their lives. And especially my mother. My mother had wanted to be a WAC, and, uh, because her father was burned badly in a tobacco barn for, uh burning. And, uh, she and her two older siblings had to stay home and help their mother gather the crops. So, her out was to get married, she told me. And then from marriage, uh, it brought her along to Orlando, Florida. Thompson And when you came to Orlando, where in Orlando did you live? Rayam I first remember living as a little boy on Green Street, which really doesn't, uh—I don't think it's in existence anymore. It's near the Callahan Center. And then from Green Street, we lived at the corner of Washington, right behind which was—which was, um, Callahan, which had been on the old Jones High School. Thompson And you mentioned a little bit the farming history. Once they came to Orlando, what did your parents do for a living? Rayam Well, my mother became a maid. She worked in the old San Juan Hotel down here on Orange Avenue. And my father picked oranges, and later became an—a fruit loader. And then went on to move houses with Sandroni Company and all. Thompson And, uh, do you have any siblings? Rayam I have. I certainly do. One sister who has passed. My sister, Linda. And, uh, four brothers. My brother Hardy, my brother Linarus Rayam, who has passed, and my brother Alfred Earl, who has passed, and my brother Thomas, who is still alive. And we do have a brother also we call Tootie, but his name is Alphonso. My father's son. He’s actually the oldest [laughs]. Thompson Um, and what sort of, um, memories do you have of your family and childhood that really stick out to you? Rayam Oh my God. Going fishing when we lived on the farm. Going fishing with my grandmother. Playing with my cousins. There were so many cousins. We did not have to make friends with anybody else. Just, uh—just that country life going from one church to another, going down to my mother's—mother's house in the evenings on Sunday—Sundays. And, uh, all the ladies in the evening would, uh, walk down in the—in the fields and, uh, children couldn't follow them. So, as they came back singing we would go to our respective parents and bring them back. I never knew what that was about, but it reminds me of something of—of an African tradition, where the women got together and probably talked about each other's families, husbands and children and got, uh, advice from their mother. But, uh, it was Sunday evenings and, uh, Easter programs and sing your Easter speech and—and uh, all of those good things. Thompson And you mentioned singing. So, let's talk about that. Your career is very unique. Um, can you tell us what you do for a career? Rayam I was an opera singer. Concert singer. I, uh, started in the church, of course. Uh, my—I have to go way back to the country again. My whole family sings. My father used to sing with his brothers and cousins. They were called the Bellville Jubileers. And my mother sang with her sisters, and they were called the Amazons. They were tall, pretty women who had beautiful voices. So, all of my siblings sing. I'm the only one that decided to make a living out of it. Uh, so it's—it's part of our DNA. So, when I go home for family reunion—union now everybody's singing. So it's nothing unique [laughs]. Thompson Um, and you mentioned a little bit, um, but what type of education did you have? Rayam I, uh—of course, I had my elementary school education at Callahan. And it's at Callahan that, uh, Mrs. Masie Cosby discovered my voice. We used to have what was called chapel. A devotion. And, according to her [clears throat]—excuse me. According to her, she heard this voice. So, she did a series of elimination until she got to me, and she said, “well, here you are!” She told me what I had. You know, it was, you know, nothing to me because we did it at home. She said, “I always wanted to sing.” She said, “But you could sing. You could go around the world and sing for me.” Okay. All right. Go around the world. I love National Geographic magazine. So, I had seen other places in this magazine. And so, my mind—my imagination took over and, uh, one thing led to another. Going to Mt. Olive AME Church. Then to, uh, Jones High, uh, School. Being discovered by—from—from one, uh, director to another director. And onto the University of Miami on scholarship. Thompson Um, and what was your favorite subject in school? Was it music? Rayam Music, uh, drama, French, uh, history. Uh, least favorite [laughs]: mathematics. Ran away from physics and calculus. Still get the shivers when I think about it [laughs]. Thompson Uh, and you mentioned Jones High School. Can you tell us about the school, what it was like when you were there? Rayam Well, Jones High was, my lord. It was junior high and senior high. I had never seen so many people in my life than when I was in seventh grade. Thompson [sniffs]. Rayam I'm told by—by uh, church members who were teachers or retired—retired folk who said, “Oh. When you get to Jones High, make sure you take Latin.” So, when I got there, there’s Mrs. Brayboy who was the Latin teacher. Retired. So, there was no Latin. I met Miss Queen E. Oh, what was Miss Queen E.‘s last name? Uh, she was the French teacher. She heard me talking. And she said, "Hello, little boy. Come here." She said, "So, what's your name?" I said, “I'm Curtis Rayam.” She said, "Now, in ninth grade, I want you to sign up for French." Powell was her last name, Miss Queen E. Powell. I said, "Okay." So, when I got to ninth grade, she had retired. But I followed her instructions, and I signed up for—for French. And it's been a love affair ever since. So, I took French in high school, French in college, of course, and studied in France. Later on, after college. Thompson You mentioned a few of your teachers, the French teacher and some of your music teachers. But are there any teachers that stand out in particular as influential or memorable? Rayam Well, my lord, they were all advice givers [laughs]. They were all transplanted mothers and fathers. Uh, Mrs.—Mrs. Cosby, I spoke to you about. Mrs. Polope[sp] who taught me the Lord's Prayer. Uh, Miss Alma Polope[sp]. That was back in Callahan. But at Jones High, it was Miss Augusta Rogers, who encouraged me to make sure I go and sing for the choir directors. Mr., uh, Roderick Rockheel[sp] Williams. Uh, then, uh, Miss uh—Miss, uh, Roberta Manuel, Mr. Norman Choice. And then came Mrs. Edna Hargrett Thrower, the one that took me over and got me ready for university and, uh, the world. She had—and that was the time that I was coming—coming down to the library—to Orlando library when it was first built. And, uh, she introduced us to our opera, to oratorio, to Broadway musicals, um, gospel, of course. The secret—uh, the sacred music of—of the church and spirituals. So, she prepared me for the University of Miami. But Mrs. Hargrett, uh—w—w—we'll call her Mama Hargrett—was the one that really put the fire up under me. Thompson And what did you want to be when you grew up? Was it always singing? Rayam I always wanted to be a singer. First, I thought to be, uh, a ballad singer. And then I found o—found out about, uh, [smacks] uh, the Broadway musical. Then I saw my first opera here in Orlando, which was, uh, Puccini's Tosca, with Gabriella Tucci and Placido Domingo. And I—I thought it was nice, you know, ok, “lalalala.” But the next year we came to see—uh, Charles Gounod's, uh, Faust. That did the clincher. A young Beverly Sills, Placido Domingo, Dominic Cossa, uh, Kay Creed, and, uh, th—the Or—the Or—it was the Orlan—the Florida Symphony Orchestra with Henry Mazer. Henry Mazer. And then Herman Hertz was the conductor after him. Well, that did the clincher. When I saw, uh, Beverly Sills rise into the heavens, I said, “I want to make that magic. That's the magic I want to make.” So, I fell in love with opera on that—on the spot. Thompson And I doubt most folks are familiar with the career pathway of an opera singer. Rayam [laughs] Thompson Can you tell us a little bit about what that journey was like? Rayam Oo, it can be helter skelter. Not necessarily, uh, designed. Although some people are, uh—have a designed, uh, money trail. Marketing scheme. Mine was by the good Lord and good people who heard me and, uh, propelled me from one thing to another. The—the—the basic thing was to be prepared to learn, uh, all the different genres, uh to f—to familiarize yourself with French opera, German opera, Italian opera, American opera, and—and—and—and on and on and on, uh, to have a chance. Also, before you were discovered to say—to, uh, have those chances to get up on your feet and practice, uh, the, uh—the art of the opera. Singing opera. So, in University of Miami, we had the opera workshop. And Miami was a very good market. I didn't realize, but, uh, I knew it was bigger than several other places that I considered. But M—Miami, uh, of course, had the—the Miami Opera. Uh, you had several symphony orchestras around, and, of course, the opera workshop at the University of Miami and my teacher, Mary Henderson Buckley, and my other teacher, Dorothy Zeigler. And, uh, Emerson Buckley. And all of these people gave us chances to sing in the chorus, to be around the international stars. Placido Domingo again, uh, Montserrat Caballé Leontyne Price, uh, Fiorenza Cossotto and—and uh—and on and on and on and on and on. And so, you got a chance to hobnob it. To see these people really practice their art, and to— to talk to them and get advice from them. And to get to know them. And get their address or phone number. So, if you—if you went to New York, you could call them and say, “I'm gonna bug you to death!” But, uh, yeah. Being—being prepared. Hopefully when you're in that right place to—to step out and do that thing that you would like to do. And it has been—it has been a—[smacks] I must say, a blessed, blessed journey for me. Thompson Uh, and you mentioned, um, growing up that there was a lot of singing in the house and fishing. What other sorts of things did you do in your spare time? Rayam Well, there—the other side of that is athletics. My father was—my lord. Sunday afternoons was baseball. My father could play baseball like crazy. And my mother was a fabulous basketball player they say. I never saw her play basketball. But, my brothers and my sister, they not only played in the band and sang in choir, but uh, my brother, Hardy , played football and went to Notre Dame on a scholarship back in, uh, '72, I do believe. And my brother, Thomas , went to the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. And went on to the pros with the Redskins and then the, uh, uh, Bengals and then Canadian ball. He, uh—th—the others, although they sang, became accountants [laughs] and mass communication majors. And book writers and poem writers. And all of that. Po—poets and all. Thompson We'll change, uh— we'll change gears a little bit. And looking at, um, the community once you're here in Orlando. Rayam Yeah. Thompson What sorts of businesses existed in the neighborhood when you were younger? Rayam Lord, uh, Mrs. Georgia Wallace had a fabulous boarding house, and she was quite a socialite. I remember she i—invited our family to go to the new Jones High to hear the Dondrells[sp] of Chicago. And I think for the first time, I recognized classical music. There was a pianist. There was a cellist. There was a singer, of course, singing [laughs] what my father desires as, “tweet, tweet, bird music”[sings in French] [laughs]. And they laughed and picked at that for— for some time. But I knew it was different from, uh, that music that I heard back in the country. Uh, the gospel, and the spirituals and the hymns. And even the music, I—I, uh—I heard also in Orlando. So that was in the back burner. I didn't act upon it. But, uh, Mrs. Wallace was very, very, very innovative in introducing my family to another side of the coin. Thompson Thinking outside of your family, what type of work did the people who lived in the community do? Rayam Yeah. Well, you had your teachers. You had your preachers. Uh, you had your first Black policeman, uh, Policeman Jones. Yes. Uh, you had, uh— you had nurses. Mercerdese Clark. Uh, you had—you had your cooks. You know? Cooks. You had your janitorial types. You had your, uh, doctors. Dr. Schanck. Dr. Smith, who was my doctor. You had Lawyer Perkins who was— Thompson [sniffs] Rayam ...who was our lawyer. And his wife was my—my third-grade teacher at, uh, Callahan. You had almost every kind of, uh, em—employment in— in the neighborhood. Uh, secretaries. Pamela Woodley’s mother uh, Mrs. Woodley, who was uh, quite the secretary and quite the [inaudible]. You had your seamstress, Louise McDonald, my cousin. Uh, you had your cooks, like I said. You had some of— store owners. Yes. You had the—the neighborhood stores. Uh, cousin. And, uh—yeah. Hardy Wright. Oh, yeah. And you had your orange pickers. And you had your day laborers. And, uh, the whole—the music. Th—the mix of all. Thompson Um, when you look at the community now... Rayam Hm. Thompson How has business and entrepreneurship changed over time in Parramore? Rayam Well, I—I—I've seen a lot of places that have closed down. Like, for instance, at the corner of Jackson. At the Jackson Street and Parramore you had the Pyramid Cleaners owned by the Motsbys. And, uh, that's not there anymore. Uh, you have the funeral homes. Well, we still have those [laughs]. Fortunately or unfortunately, they s—they still exist but have changed hands. Uh, you have gas stations. Uh, you have your taxi services. Uh, not—about—of the same magnitude as it was when I was a child. There used to be the Carver Theater. Uh, and the Lincoln Theater. Uh, that does not exist anymore. You have a soccer field there now. And, uh, barber shops. And all kind of, uh, uh, clothing places. They don't exist anymore. Thompson What does the absence of those businesses do to the community? Rayam Well, for one thing, it takes out an identity, especially to the, uh—for the young people that are coming behind us. And, uh, we tell them about ‘em. You know? There are pictures here and there about that. I think that's what the Callahan Center is all about to, uh—to preserve some of that, uh—that legacy so that our—generations that are coming behind us will know that—that they had people who were, uh, entrepreneurs of—of good—good standings. And you—you have the ones that were not so great, either. B—but, you know, it takes everything and everybody to make up a community. Thompson Before we got started, I told you that I was going to give you an activity. Rayam Yes? Thompson It's time for that. Rayam Oh [laughs]! Thompson So, this is a [paper rustling] map of downtown Orlando. Rayam Okay. Thompson And I want you to [paper rustling] draw on the map using any of the [paper rustling] markers of your choice. Rayam Okay. Thompson Define on the map: Parramore. What is Parramore as an area? Rayam [inaudible whispering] That's Jackson Street. Where's the red? That's Jackson. Roberts and [inaudible whispering]. That's downtown. That's Madison [inaudible] [pen clicks] [paper rustling] [pen clicks]. I don't have on my better—best glasses today. Uh, South Street [inaudible]. And that's Lake—Lake Lorna Doone. Amelia. Livingston. Yes. Orange Blossom Trail. Livingston. Thompson [sniffs] Rayam You know, I see nothing [paper rustling] saying Parramore. Thompson Right, I've removed the P—I've removed the place names, so if you just— Rayam Oh, I see. Thompson If you just... Rayam [paper rustling] Thompson ...draw a box... Rayam Uh huh. Thompson or lines around whatever... Rayam [pen clicks] Thompson ...you consider to be Parramore. Rayam I gotcha. Uh. Thompson And it should still have street names to... Rayam Yeah. Thompson ...help keep you oriented. Rayam I see. You know, in those days, you could only go as far [paper rustling] as your mother and father [paper rustling] would let you go. Okay. There we are [paper rustling]. I used to walk [paper rustling] Miss Penny over to—almost to [paper rustling] Division Street. There was a lady who sold the Pittsburgh [paper rustling] Courier, which is one of the—the last Black [paper rustling], uh, newspapers—national newspapers [pen hits table]. And we would walk up Parramore to, um— Thompson [paper rustling]. Rayam Oh. Or was it—almost to Anderson Street. ‘Cause she walked—she walked very slowly. And, uh, we would talk all the way. And she would tell me all kind of little things about the past. And we'd stay and talk for a while. And eat some sweet potato pie [laughs]. And turn around and walk back home to Jefferson Street. That was Parramore. Thompson [smacks lips] And so thinking about the community of Paramore, what sort of challenges have you seen Paramore face over the years? Rayam Well, I see a lot of homelyn—ho—hom—homelessness now. And, uh, buildings that [background noise]—that are still I—I say still holding on that were—were new buildings when I was a child. Uh, which means [background noise] money. The money that [background noise] used to be there [background noise]—excuse me—is not there anymore to, uh—to repair them to— to attract a commodity of people to be there. Uh, but, uh, you have a—a lot of homeless people living in the area now. Thompson [smacks lips] And thinking on some of the challenges. Are there or were there any local organizations or networks that stick out to you as helpful in some of those challenges? Rayam Uh, for the homele—homelessness? Yeah. Well, your churches did at the time. Churches. You had your churches. You had your sororities. You still have your sororities. Uh, you had—well, and I would say mainly churches, and mainly families. Uh, there was—there was more of a, uh, mental healt—healthcare and facilities, uh, that were—that were targeted to help the, uh, homeless and mentally ill. Nowadays, I—I don't—I know that they're not there as they used to be. The same type of care is not taken, uh—taken seriously as they once did. Thompson You mentioned that churches played a big role into these community support networks. Are there any churches in particular that stick out as important to the community? Rayam Oh, Mt. Olive AME Church. St. Mark AME Church. Shiloh Baptist Church. Uh, oh, Lord, have mercy. Ebenezer, uh, CME Church. Um, uh, oh, my dear. To tell you the t—eh—New—New—New—her—New Bethel. Every church basically in the community. But still—Mt. Pleasant Baptist Church. Yes. During those days. Yes. Oh, yes. They—they really had a, um—a stronghold when it came to helping people in trouble. Thompson And you mentioned, uh, gospel singing, obviously with your background. Rayam Mhmm. Thompson Um, what was your family or personal involvement in some of these church communities? Rayam Well, we belong to—well [laughs], when we first came to Orlando, uh, we belonged to, um, St. Mark AME Church. And my mother sang in the choir. My father sang in the choir. And then we moved across town to the Parramore area, actually, and uh—and Jefferson Street. And we all belonged to, uh, Mt. Olive AME Church. We sang in the choir. And my mother and father, sister. We all—we all came through the choir [laughs] one way or another. Yeah. Thompson And, uh, thinking in the community. What role did women in particular play in supporting the community? Rayam They supported their men [laughs]. No. The women of—of the community were—were, uh—were backbones. They were entrepreneurs. A lot of times you found that the women had more education, uh, as compared to the men. And, uh, they were very vocal in—in, uh, making changes come to the community. So, yeah. Th—the women were very, very, very strong. Very strong. Thompson And thinking back to these—these networks and community. Are there particular individuals who stick out to you as important to either your or the community’s past in the community? Rayam Well, I've mentioned one: uh, Miss Georgia Wallace. Uh, Miss Merced—Mercerdese Clarke. Uh, Mrs. Hargrett. Uh, Mrs. Jesse B. Demps Smith. She was my godmother. Also a teacher. She was one of the first certified teachers in, uh, Orange County to do special education. She was over the, uh, Magnolia School for kids with special aid, uh—special needs. And, uh, I worked with her—with the kids, uh, on Fridays. We had an organization called the Nightcrawlers, where we would assemble all the—the kids who were mentally disturbed. And in those days called them retarded. But to give them some sense of normalcy, we, uh—we would have a big meeting and dance and eating and what have you. Uh, uh, I think it was every other Friday night here at the Magnolia School. So, yeah. I—I—it—it—it—it gave me, um, another alternative to work with mentally disturbed children, which I did do. I worked with the, uh uh—when I was in school in Miami. University of Miami. I worked at the, uh—Oh. What's the name of the place? You get me out of, uh—it was in Coral Gables. Uh, well, anyways. I worked with mentally disturbed children. And, uh, I was offered a scholarship to get my master’s in child psychology. But, uh, Broadway called to do Treemonisha [laughs]. So, that's what I wanted to do more so. Yeah. Variety Children's Hospital. That was the name of it. Thompson We've both used the word a lot. What does the word community mean to you? Rayam Community means the people that are in your vicinity. The people that you, uh—you talk to. You check on. You, uh, fuss and fight with sometimes. But, uh, they have your back and you have their back. Uh, family. Thompson Look—a little—a little bigger picture. Rayam Yeah. Thompson Um, how has Paramore changed over time? Rayam Well, it doesn't have the warmth that I remember it having. It doesn't feel as, uh, inviting as it did one time. My mother would send, uh, all of us to the barbershop, my sister, too, because after we got our—our haircuts on Saturday, we spent the rest of the day in the Carver Theater. Uh, because it was—it had air conditioning for one thing [laughs]. And we didn't have air conditioning at all. And it gave my mother a little breather [laughs]. Um, we s—we felt pretty safe. Pretty safe. Thompson What challenges does Parramore face today? Rayam Uh. I don't—I don't live there, but I think renewal. Making it safe. Keeping it, uh—keeping the historical emphasis uh, in—in front of it. And uh, making it inviting. Now, all of that calls for money. As we know. So, the community of Orlando and the community of Florida need to come together and let's see what we can do in renovating not only that Parramore, but the Parramores from city to city. Thompson And what is the legacy of Paramore? Rayam The legacy of Parramore. Hmm. Well, for me, as a child—speaking from a child's standpoint, uh, we felt a sense of community. We felt safe. Uh, you—um. Hmm. You had—in that community, you had your teachers and your preachers and—and your professionals living right next door to your day laborers, your common laborers, your maids. And, uh, everybody was your mother and your father, your sister and your brother. Uh, other than that, that's—that's what I know. Yes. Thompson You mentioned it a little bit, um, but what can people who don't live in Parramore do as individuals to support Parramore? Rayam People who do not live in Parramore? Well, you could ask for their aid. You could ask for their help, and for—ask for their advice on how to restore it. Um, more than that, you can't really expect much more than that. Um, but their cooperation. Yes. Definitely. Thompson And what does Parramore mean to you? Rayam It means that it's still there. But the only thing that I don't like is that the street of Parramore [laughs] is—is—is occupied by part of a—of a soccer field. I remember when I went down there to go through Parramore I was like, "Oh my God, I can't drive through." I know progress is progress and things do change. So, yeah. That's what Parramore means to me. I can't drive all the way through [laughs]. Thompson Um, [clears throat] those are the main questions I wanted to ask. But... Rayam Okay. Thompson ...we'll give it to you now. What else didn't we talk about that you want to? Rayam Well, let's see. Hmm. I don't know. I didn't mention Chief Wilson. Chief James Wilson, who was the music man at Jones High School. I really—I came to learn a lot about him, even more after he passed, on how he and—when they went to the, um, New York World's Fair in 1964, he and, uh, uh, the band director from Edgewater were very good friends. And I do not remember his name. But very good friends. They collaborated together, uh, even before integration. And they spoke up for, uh, each other. And they both went to, uh—to New York for that fair. And I didn't realize it had—it had gone down like that. Because I was a child. I knew it happened. But Chief Wilson used to, um, give everybody advice. And he was very, very, very, very, very instrumental and very dear to me. And that—you know—when I would come home from school, from university, he'd come over and talk and just to see what—what I was doing it. And—and just to—just to give me some more advice. And to keep me encouraged. To keep on going and—and, "If you needed anything, boy, give me a call." But, uh, he—he was very proud to say that under his watch, he was able to produce a world class opera singer named Curtis Rayam. And that he was— he was humbled by that. I—I—I'd never thought about it like that, but I'm sure [exhales] kids in my position now are now thinking about things that I give to them like that. But they'll be in this spot one day [laughs] and will remember. Yeah. He, uh—but he also he tr—he trained the people who trained me. Namely Mrs. Hargrett. So, yeah. Oh, yes. Thompson Well, if there's nothing else, thank you very much for your time. And we really appreciate it. Rayam You're very welcome. Thank you. African American Alma Polope Augusta Rogers Bellville Jubileers Callahan Elementary School Carver Theater Chief Wilson entrepreneurship Georgie Wallace Green Street Jackson Street Jefferson Street Jessie B Demps Smith Jones High School Lincoln Theater Magnolia School Mt. Olive AME Church New York World's Fair 1964 opera Orange Avenue orange pickers Orlando, Florida Parramore Pyramid Cleaners Queenie Powell Saint Mark AME Church San Juan Hotel University of Miami https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/ab51209d5584fea01d53315dbdc6b87c.pdf 66c430531c32ca50b83f62cfc3ea9cb1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Historic Oviedo Colored Schools Museum Collection Subject Oviedo (Fla.); African Americans--Florida; Schools; Education--Florida; Segregation--Florida; Elementary schools--United States; Students--Florida Description In 2000, Gloria Godwin and Gracia Muller Miller began talking about a reunion for the Jackson Heights Elementary School, a colored school in Oviedo during segregation. Reunion Historian, Judith Smith, began to look for artifacts from that era and struggled to locate any pictures or other information. She put the word out amongst the former students, asking to borrow photographs or other materials related to the colored school. Immediately, items began to pour in, and the result was a book entitled: “A Written and Pictorial History of the Oviedo Area Colored Schools 1890-1967, Oviedo Elementary, Jackson Heights Elementary, Geneva, Wagner, Kolokee (Snowhill), Gabriella (Jamestown).” From there, the mission was born. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of David Tossie Alternative Title Oral History, David Tossie Subject Oviedo (Fla.) African Americans--Florida Schools Education--Florida Segregation--Florida Elementary schools--United States Students--Florida Description An oral history interview of educator David Tossie. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero and Diana Dizon over Zoom on November 8th, 2022. Some of the topics include early life and education in Oviedo, his favorite teachers, integration of Central Florida public schools, becoming an educator, thoughts on Historic Colored Schools Museum, and his final thoughts. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Early life and education in Oviedo 0:03:18 His favorite teachers 0:04:49 Integration of Central Florida public schools 0:09:13 Becoming an educator 0:11:04 Thoughts on Historic Colored Schools Museum 0:12:49 Final thoughts Abstract Oral history interview of David Tossie. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero and Diana Dizon through Zoom on November 8, 2022. Type Moving Image Source Tossie, David. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero and Diana Dizon, November 8, 2022. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/226" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Historic Oviedo Colored Schools Museum Collection, Oviedo Collection, Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES. Coverage Oviedo, Florida Jackson Heights Elementary, Oviedo, Florida Oviedo High School, Oviedo, Florida Creator Tossie, David Cravero, Geoffrey Dizon, Diana Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2022-11-08 Date Copyrighted 2022-11-08 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 223 KB Medium 16-minutes and 42-seconds video recording 10-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by David Tossie, Geoffrey Cravero, Diana Dizon and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Davila, Hiram Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Robison Jim. <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/796757419" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Around Oviedo</a>. Charleston South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing. 2012. Accessed November 4, 2022. "<a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/796757419" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">1878 -1913 Black Schools in Seminole County." Parks and Preservation, Seminole County Government</a>.” Accessed November 4, 2022. The World Outside Reunion. “<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/5258" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">A Written and Pictorial History of the Oviedo Area Colored Schools, 1890-1967</a>.” RICHES of Central Florida accessed November 4, 2022, https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/5258. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/NS7qPmgsBHY" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oral History of David Tossie</a> Transcript Cravero Are you already recording? Let me see [smacks lips]. Dizon Good to go. Cravero Okay. Alright I’m gonna go ahead and start. Let’s see here. Hm. This is Geoffrey Cravero and with me is Diana Dizon. I am conducting an oral history with David Tossie. The interview is being connected via Zoom on Tuesday November 8th, 2022. Mr. Tossie, thank you for speaking with us today. Would you begin by stating your name and telling us a bit about where you’re from and what life was like for you growing up? Tossie My name is David Tossie. You can say Tossie either way it doesn’t matter. Alright. Um, part of my family says Tossie, some say Tossie. I am from Oviedo. I was born in Oviedo, Florida, 1954, at a doctor’s office—Doctor Stoner’s office— right in downtown Oviedo. Um, I attended school at Jackson Heights Elementary School1 from 1960 to 1967. And that was when—since 1967 is when the integration was, uh, full-blown and it was freedom of choice. You could choose to go to Crooms2 in Sanford or choose to go to Oviedo High School3, and I chose to go to Oviedo High School [audio glitch]. Cravero I forgot—that’s—all the times I’ve done this I always forget to do that [laughs]. Um, could you please describe your experience attending Jackson Heights Elementary School, uh, Colored School and what are some of the memories that stand out to you? Tossie Well, just, uh, going to school was a big excitement because I had two sisters, uh—I had four siblings in front of me that had gone to school in Oviedo but two that had gone to Jackson Heights. And they would come home with all these stories and everything, so I was excited to go. My first-grade year I remember catching mumps or measles. I can’t remember what it was. But, you know, when I—when I caught that I was home for a week. And my teacher—my first-grade teacher just happened to be my next-door neighbor. So—and instead of missing all the schoolwork, she brought my homework home to me every day. So that was—It wasn’t fun, but it was alright. Um, all through the school I had good friends. Uh, I walked to school. Um, my aunt was one of the bus drivers for the, uh, school. We had—I think we had two buses that went to Jackson Heights. And my aunt, Gladys Ingram4, was one of the bus drivers and Dolphus Carwise5 was the other bus driver. We had probably around 400 students. My first-grade class was two classrooms and I think every other class—I can remember all my teachers from first grade through the seventh grade and all of my friends. Some friends I have—still have those friends for life. So we still see each other and still communicate with each other. Cravero Did you have a favorite teacher? And what qualities did he or she bring to the classroom? Tossie Well I guess as you—as you progress my—I guess in first grade my favorite teacher was my first-grade teacher because she was my next-door neighbor, and I knew her. Our second-grade teacher was real good. Mrs., uh, Curtis I think her name was. My third-grade teacher was another neighbor and my best friend’s mother. So she was pretty good but she was real strict. And since she knew me, you know, she was real strict on me. My fourth-grade teacher was a lady from another town, but she was close—you know, y—Jamestown is where it was. We always thought she was mean, but she was a good lady. But we always thought she was mean because we were little kids. Uh, fifth grade and—fifth and sixth grade I had the same teacher: a man. That was my first male teacher and we thought he was great because we did a lot of different things with him. So we kept him for two years. And then my seventh-grade teacher, Mr. Wright, was a teacher—that was when we started changing classes, too. We would go from science to English to math and different things like that. And all the classes we always had recess. We didn’t have any physical education class. No special classes at all. We did have recess though. Alright. Cravero Many, uh, schools in Central Florida were still considered segregated over a decade after the Brown vs. Board of, uh, Education6 decision. Tossie Yes. Cravero You’d go on to attend Oviedo High School during a period of racial integration. Do you remember what that first day was like and would you share some of your memories of your high school experience? Tossie It was—it was different. Um, that was my eighth-grade school year and I had seen the school—it was within walking distance of me. I had never been on that campus before. And I had seen it. I had been around it and whatever but never walked on that campus. Never been to any classes. Some of the students that were there I had seen before. And later on I found that their names were familiar because at Jackson Heights we wouldn’t get new books. We would get their old books with their names in them. And so that was, uh, strange. You know, it was alright then because it was new to us but once I got up there it felt kind of strange. Because we wouldn’t get the new books. We would get the old books. But it was—it was—it was different. Um, I was put in classes that had, uh, mostly Black kids and probably—and I don’t know if this is right or not, but probably the poorest of the white kids were in—were in the classes that I had. And my first day in English class—I remember this very well. A guy behind me—white guy—I didn’t know him, but I knew his uncle because my dad and his uncle worked together on the farms. And he was sitting behind me. And he touched me on the shoulder and told me what his name was and said hello. Very nice guy. And I—I knew him until his—he passed away about three or four years ago. But he was a good friend of mine all those years. And so—and I got some new friends, too. But there was some controversy or some tension at the school because a lot of the white people didn’t want us up there. And our parents would tell us before we left the house to be careful. To go to your class. Do you work. One of the things my mother told me was not to touch a white girl, you know? So [laughs] make sure I stay away from them because you get hung by that. You know, stuff like that. So I did—I—I did all that. Uh, one day, one of my friends was, uh—the school was a three-story school. It was where Lawton Elementary School7 is now, it was Oviedo High School. One of my friends had an art class and had brought some scissors to school. This the story I got and I don’t know the real story of it. But this the story I got. He brought some scissors to school and some white guys saw him upstairs. And he was kind of a big guy, so they were gonna jump him. And it ended up that he beat all three of them up and he got sent to the office and got suspended from school. And they said they suspended him because he had scissors, you know? So—and then there was another fight in the girls’ bathroom where another girl— Black girl—was in there and a girl called her the n-word. I guess they must’ve bumped into each other or something, so she called her the n-word. And the girl hit her in the nose. And I was just happened to be passing by the hallway and the bathroom girl—girls’ bathroom. When the girl ran out. And I remember her screaming and hollering that—that n just hit her in the nose, you know? And so the crowd—the hallway was always crowded and everything. But it was the next day I think all the—a lot of parents showed up. Uh, mainly white parents. I don’t think any of the Black parents showed up. But you could hard—you could hardly walk on the school campus because of all those people that were there. And we didn’t know what was going on, you know? We had heard stuff about KKK and all that stuff, but we had never seen anyone. But they didn’t have on any robes or anything. But they were there. And I still to this day don’t know why they were there, but they were. There was a lot of people there and it was sort of scary. But we got over that and ended up having some good white friends and Black friends. And some of them I still know today. Cravero You’d go on to, uh, become an educator yourself. Um, how did your formative experiences, um, in Oviedo shape your desires to become an educator and—and w—what—what were some of the differences, uh, once you were an educator versus a student in your experience? Tossie The great thing about that: when I was in the eight grade, that first year up there, the, uh, PE8 teacher was a basketball coach and he was assigned to teach the high schools and the middle schools, but I guess the principal had him to take out the elementary kids also. And so he asked me and another guy if I would come over there. And he’d talk to the teachers I guess and got us excused and had me take the kids out to the playground for him. And so I guess that—that sort of got me into that mode. And so during all those years I guess just watching what the teachers do—and I was a basketball player at school—in high school. And so when I went to college I had no, uh, expectations of becoming a teacher. I just wanted to make sure I got into college. And I was gonna think about it when I got there. But I did get into college. And I played basketball. And after my junior year is when I decided to become an educator. So it was just all of the basketball coaches, the teachers treated me good up at Oviedo High School. And I got along well with just about everyone. So it wasn’t any big influence over anything. I had a lot of cousins that were teachers and educators and maybe that did, too. But it was—it was just a progressive thing. Cravero The oral history that you’re giving us today is going to be archived in the Oviedo Colored Schools Museum. What are your hopes for that museum? Tossie Well, I would hope that it grows and that everyone—uh, people in the future will see what—what happened. Because a lot of times—I guess today’s people are trying to push a lot of history down and not—not try to remember. But I think we should remember our history because if we don’t know where we came from, we don’t know where we’re going. Um, I know that I grew up in Oviedo and it was poor and we lived in a one-bedroom house. My parents were not educated. My mother went to sixth grade, which is probably equivalent to maybe third grade nowadays. My dad—I never saw him or heard him read anything, but I did see him sign his name on his checks. So, we were not a upper-class or middle-class people. You know? They went to work early and came home late. They worked for other people. And so I just want people to know that Oviedo was a pretty good place to live. There was prejudice here. Um, I’ve heard about it. You know? I saw some of it, but not much. And I knew—you knew what and what not to do. And—but I would like for people in the future to just know that things are not just like it is today. But it was worse than it was and—and people need to know that. Some people are—they don’t want their children to know how bad people were treated, but it should be known. Cravero Is—is there anything else that you’d like to add or expand on? Do you have any final thoughts for us? Tossie Well, I did write some stuff down to remember. I told you about my homework teacher—my homework in first grade. And we also did a lot of things with the Bible in—in elementary school. Our principal would come on the intercom every morning and say a prayer. And then he would tell everybody to have a good day and everything. Um, we would have a Bible teacher that would come. I don’t know if it was once a week or once a month. I can’t remember. But that Bible teacher was a white lady. And she would come there. And we would all assemble in the auditorium. And she would do Bible lessons. And she would have this felt board. I remember this very vividly. A felt board with things that she would—with people that she would stick on that board. And then she would give a story and tell us. And we would, uh—she would sing some songs and things. Um, we had a music teacher and she would do, uh, Christian music. Hymns and things like that. We would sing those things. Uh, we would—in the classrooms our teachers would have prayer. We would sing a song about “Get Thee Behind Me Satan” every morning before we, uh, started our classes. I remember all the girls were always taller than me in elementary school. And then when we got in eighth grade or something I sort of passed them up. I love the carnivals that we would have. It would be a PTA sponsored thing, I guess. And they would have a little booth. And parents would make food. And they would have gifts. And you’d go to these different booths and try to play things. And they would have a, uh—I remember this truck that looked like a train that you could get on there for a certain amount of money. And then they would ride to downtown Oviedo then back to Jackson Heights. And it looked like a train but it was a truck. Uh, recess was good because, like I said, we didn’t have regular physical education classes, but we had recess. And our teachers would take us outside and they would play little games with us. And then we would go to the playground and play that. Uh, the parent participation was real good at PTA. When you’d go to a PTA meeting it would be crowded. And I when education—I was in education for 35 years and I don’t think I’ve ever been to a crowded PTA meeting unless it was a show or something that the children were doing. Um, like I say my siblings—I always looked up at them. And the bad thing about having two girls in front of you is that if you get the same teacher, they expect you to excel like they did. And I wasn’t doing that so [laugh] it was just a little different. And like I said we had—I’ve got friends that I met before elementary school and in elementary school. And I’ve had those friends for life. And the status of the students out there was different. There were people—most the people out there were poor. Uh, there were maybe two or three families that had exceeded. You know? We had some students that were—that their parents were teachers. Some students had parents that had gone to college, but not that many. Most of them worked for field—in the field. And they worked for other people. And they were just like us [inaudible] you know? So it was a—there wasn’t a big status different in anyone. And that’s about it. Any questions? Cravero No, that was fantastic. Thanks. Mr., uh, Tossie, thank you again for sharing your time and speaking with us. This has been Geoffrey Cravero with Diana Dizon on November 8th, 2022. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/60494d5b2abcbe631c06de34c243fba2.pdf 5bb99ca60af6f8e64a214c1e07982375 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Historic Oviedo Colored Schools Museum Collection Subject Oviedo (Fla.); African Americans--Florida; Schools; Education--Florida; Segregation--Florida; Elementary schools--United States; Students--Florida Description In 2000, Gloria Godwin and Gracia Muller Miller began talking about a reunion for the Jackson Heights Elementary School, a colored school in Oviedo during segregation. Reunion Historian, Judith Smith, began to look for artifacts from that era and struggled to locate any pictures or other information. She put the word out amongst the former students, asking to borrow photographs or other materials related to the colored school. Immediately, items began to pour in, and the result was a book entitled: “A Written and Pictorial History of the Oviedo Area Colored Schools 1890-1967, Oviedo Elementary, Jackson Heights Elementary, Geneva, Wagner, Kolokee (Snowhill), Gabriella (Jamestown).” From there, the mission was born. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Lester Today is August the 2nd, 2022. I am Connie Lester. With me is Jessica Oldham, and Dillard Alvin Gould. We are conducting this oral history via Zoom. Mr. Gould, welcome to the oral history. Would you please state your name and tell us a little bit about where you’re from, and what it was like growing up? Gould Okay. My name is Dillard Alvin Gould. That’s my given name, but I was under a different name until I was—went through the service. My mom didn’t like the name I was given so she—she put the name she wanted on my birth certificate. And, uh, I didn’t know about that until I went in the service when I was 17. You need my, uh, original name? Lester If you want to give it to us, yes. Gould My original name was Aloie Tossie. A-L-O-I-E. Tossie. My mom didn’t like that name… Lester Mhmm. Gould …but it was given to me by my aunt. And, uh, she never changed it. She just put what she wanted on my birth certificate, which was my great-grandfather’s name. His name was Dillard Gould. Lester Mhmm. Gould So, I was surprised when I got to the service and I gave my birth certificate, that it was different. So, I went through school with that name. And when I tried to, uh, get my school records when I was in New Jersey, I—they had a hard time finding them. Yeah. Lester So what was your childhood like? What was—what was it like growing up in Oviedo? Gould Growing up in Oviedo was, uh—well, it wasn’t easy. Lester Mhmm. Gould I had a—Well, first of all I didn’t start school at, uh, six years old like most kids did. I started at five [audio glitch]. And that was a problem for me for a while because I think I was too [audio glitch] young to be there. Lester Mhmm. Gould But my mom insisted that I go because I knew a lot of stuff. Apparently, I didn’t know enough, and later years it caught up with me. I didn’t get past the eighth grade. But eventually, I, uh, finished school with a GED . And I passed it the first time around [doors closes]. Which was, uh, because there’s not much about my childhood to, uh [clears throat]—nothing, uh, dramatic about it or anything. I was just a kid that was always hungry. My mom worked every day and my dad wasn’t around. Lester What kind of work did your mother do? Gould She was a farm worker. Lester Mhmm. Gould After that she went to work for Henry Walker[?]… Lester Mhmm. Gould …on Lake Charm in Oviedo. She worked for them for 37 years [clears throat]. Lester Did you have brothers and sisters? Gould I had two brothers and three sisters. I don’t know how in the world my mom, uh… Lester Mhmm. Gould …took care of all of us, but she did. She was a good woman. Lester It sounds like it. Were—were you the oldest or kind of in the middle? Gould No, I was the third. Lester You were the third. Okay. Gould Mhmm. No, wait a minute. I had two brothers and a sister before me. That’d make me fourth. Lester Mhmm. Gould And two sisters after me. Yeah. Lester Do you remember what kinds of games you played as a kid? Um… Gould Oh, we loved baseball. And I played basketball. Um, [clears throat] baseball was my favorite game. Lester What position did you play? Gould Well, I was a center fielder. Lester Were these baseball games in the neighborhood, or did you play at school? Gould Both. Neighborhood and at school. Lester Mhmm. Gould I probably could have been a professional but that wasn’t allowed back in my day. Lester So, um, you were an adult, uh, y—you—a—as a child, uh, integration hadn’t come, and the Civil Rights Movement hadn’t come. So, you experienced integration as an adult, um, I’m assuming, when you went into the army. Can you tell me what that was like? Gould Well, at first it was, uh, okay. I was the first one in my group to get a promotion. But after that, uh, I was, uh, sent to Germany. And the First Sergeant there didn’t like me at all. He was from Mississippi. Lester Mhmm. Gould And he said as long as he was there I would [audio glitch] never get any place. And he was a lifer. He was going to be there forever, so, he was right. I never got any place. My, uh, [unintelligible] leader, the lieutenant, he put me in for promotions maybe four or five times. They never got passed for [unintelligible]. It wasn’t easy. But I had plans to stay in there for twenty years or so. But, as it was, I got out after three years. A lot of time [sic] I think I should have stayed in, but I couldn’t take what was going on. Lester Did you have a chance to travel around in Germany when you were there? Gould Oh yes. It was a beautiful country. Lester Mhmm. Gould I went to Munich. Lots of places. Lester Mhmm. Gould I was in Augsburg stationed. Lester Okay. Gould Mm. I—I didn’t want to come home. I knew how it was back there, so… Lester Mhmm. Gould But in Germany I had freedom I had never felt before. Lester Mhmm. Lester So, when you got out of the service, what kind of work did you do? Gould Well, [sighs] first I went to s—went to school. I got my GED. Then I went to school. Uh, electronics school. Lester Mhmm. Gould And I got a job with AT&T . And I retired [audio glitch] for them. Lester Was it difficult to get a job with AT&T? Were they open, uh, to… Gould No, not at first. Lester Okay. Gould They uh—they hired me because they needed, uh—needed me to, uh, rescue them, I guess. Lester [laughs]. Gould They were fined by the government six million dollars for doing what they were doing. They were, uh, hiring sisters and brothers and cousins and aunts for the people that was [sic] there. Lester Mhmm. Gould And they needed me to kind of break that up. Lester Did it get better over time? Gould Uh, since I was the only different-colored person there, didn’t get much better. Lester Mhmm. Gould But I did the best I could do. Lester How long have you lived in the West, in Nevada? Gould We just been here three years. I came out here to see after my mother-in-law. Lester Mhmm. Gould My wife’s mother. Couldn’t live alone again because she’s in her nineties. So, we came out to, uh, take her in. Take care of her. Lester Where did you live while you were working for AT&T? Gould Well, I lived in New Jersey for twenty years. Lester Mhmm. Gould Then I moved back to Florida, and—and I was there for the rest of the time I was with AT&T. Lester Mhmm. Lester Can you talk about the changes you’ve seen over time? Um, how much change do you think there has been, since you [unintelligible]. Gould Well, I’ve seen a lot of good, and a lot of not so good. Some of the changes were, uh, kind of fake changes. Weren’t real changes. Lester Mhmm. Gould But, uh, they were bearable. Lester Is there something you would like to say? A lot of students will look at this oral history. Is there something you would like to say to them, because they were—they were born so much later? Gould Well, take everything as it is, and just try to live [unintelligible]. That’s all you can do. Lester Mhmm. Gould I don’t think, uh, um, [unintelligible]—I don’t think the color barrier will ever end. It’s been there forever, so, it’s—it’s just the way it is. Lester Um, as you think about this Oviedo Colored School Museum , that is being, uh, built… Gould Mhmm. Lester …what kinds of expectations do you have for that museum? What—what do you hope it will accomplish? Gould Well, I hope that, uh, the people that go there will understand that the world is what it is, and it’s not going to change too much. And they have it much better than we did when we were kids. Lester Mhmm. Um, is there anything you would like to tell us that we haven’t talked about or that you would expand on what we’ve talked about earlier? Gould I can’t think of any. Lester Okay. Well, we appreciate your time, and we thank you, uh, for, um, doing this oral history with us. Gould Mhmm. Lester And this has been an oral history with Dillard Alvin Gould, conducted on August the 2nd, 2022, but through Zoom, by Connie Lester and Jessica Oldham. And thank you very much. Gould Thank you very much for having me. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/zXFb3b-kchg?si=o-yyFRUJ03cyqgEI">Oral History of Dillard A. Gould</a> Title Oral Memoirs of Dillard Alan Gould Alternative Title Oral History, Dillard Alan Gould Subject Oviedo (Fla.) African Americans--Florida Schools Education--Florida Segregation--Florida Elementary schools--United States Students--Florida Description An oral history interview of educator Dillard A. Gould. The interview was conducted by Dr. Connie Lester and Jessica Oldham over Zoom on August 2nd, 2022. Some of the topics include his early life and education in Oviedo and playing sports, his military service, experiencing discrimination in the United States Army, and being stationed in Germany, working for AT&T, and his thoughts on African American advancement and the Oviedo Colored School Museum. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 His early life and education in Oviedo and playing sports 0:05:58 His military service, experiencing discrimination in the United States Army, and being stationed in Germany 0:08:13 Working for AT&T 0:10:25 His thoughts on African American advancement and the Oviedo Colored School Museum Abstract Oral history interview of Dillard Alan Gould. Interview conducted by Connie Lester and Jessica Oldham through Zoom on August 2, 2022. Source Gould, Dillard Alan. Interviewed by Connie Lester and Jessica Oldham, August 2, 2022. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/226" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oviedo Colored Schools Museum Collection</a>, Oviedo Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Language eng Type Moving Image Coverage Oviedo, Florida Creator Gould, Dillard Alan Lester, Connie Oldham, Jessica Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2022-08-02 Date Copyrighted 2022-08-02 Contributor Schramm, Noah Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 143 KB 98.1 MB Medium 13-minutes and 18-seconds video recording 9-page digital transcript Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Dillard Alan Gould and Connie Lester and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Accrual Method Item Creation Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Robison Jim. <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/796757419" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Around Oviedo</a>. Charleston South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing. 2012. Accessed November 4, 2022. The World Outside Reunion. “<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/5258" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">A Written and Pictorial History of the Oviedo Area Colored Schools, 1890-1967</a>.” RICHES of Central Florida accessed November 4, 2022, https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/5258. "<a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/796757419" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">1878 -1913 Black Schools in Seminole County." Parks and Preservation, Seminole County Government</a>.” Accessed November 4, 2022. African-American history Aloie Tossie AT&T Black history Connie Lester Dillard Alan Gould discrimination education educator Germany Jessica Oldham military service Oviedo Oviedo Colored Schools Museum segregation sports United States Army veterans https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/378c547cb1fb19da8e25aae19aee243c.pdf ad6257c6761caa408a17dd2d1b226d92 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Hannibal Square Collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Fairolyn Livingston Alternative Title Oral History, Fairolyn Livingston Subject Winter Park (Fla.) African Americans--Florida Museums--Florida Civil rights--Florida Description An oral history interview of Fairolyn H. Livingston, chief historian of the Hannibal Square Heritage Center in Winter Park, Florida. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the Hannibal Square Heritage Center on December 12, 2019. Some of the topics covered include growing up in a segregated community, finding the resources to attend college, becoming involved in the Hannibal Square Heritage Center and documenting the community’s history, why residents attended churches of multiple denominations, conducting difficult interviews and how those who have experienced oppression have refused to allow it to define them, how gentrification has affected sense of community, changes in the community since de-segregation and gentrification, the challenges of preserving a marginalized community’s history and coming to terms with the long-lasting effects of segregation, how government policies encourage gentrification and her final remarks. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Growing up in a segregated community 0:04:54 Finding the resources to attend college 0:12:34 Becoming involved in the Hannibal Square Heritage Center and documenting the community’s history 0:23:54 Why residents attended churches of multiple denominations 0:27:35 Conducting difficult interviews and how those who have experienced oppression have refused to allow it to define them 0:27:35 Conducting difficult interviews and how those who have experienced oppression have refused to allow it to define them 0:35:30 Changes in the community since de-segregation and gentrification, the challenges of preserving a marginalized community’s history and coming to terms with the long-lasting effects of segregation 1:02:05 How government policies encourage gentrification and her final remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Fairolyn Livingston. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Winter Park, Florida, on December 12, 2019. Type Moving Image Source Livingston, Fairolyn. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, December 12, 2019. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/221" target="_blank">Hannibal Square Collection</a>, Winter Park Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 1-hour, 6-minute, and 43-seconds oral history: Livingston, Fairolyn. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Crealdé School of Art, Winter Park, Florida The Golden Point, Winter Park, Florida Hannibal Square, Winter Park, Florida Hannibal Square Heritage Center, Winter Park, Florida Mount Moriah Missionary Baptist Church, Winter Park, Florida Robert Hungerford Preparatory High School, Eatonville, Florida Rollins College, Winter Park, Florida Ward Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Church, Winter Park, Florida Winter Park, Florida Winter Park High School, Winter Park, Florida Creator Livingston, Fairolyn Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> Contributor Lester, Connie Date Created 2019-12-12 Date Copyrighted 2019-12-12 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.61 GB 269 KB Medium 1-hour, 6-minute, and 43-seconds video recording 21-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Humanities Teacher Provenance Originally created by Geoffrey Cravero and Fairolyn Livingston and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Schreyer, Peter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/961806111" target="_blank">The Hannibal Square Heritage Collection: Photographs and Oral Histories : Winter Park, Florida, USA.</a> 2016. Norris, Jim, Claire Strom, Danielle Johnson, and Sydney Marshall. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1148874669" target="_blank">Winter Park</a>. Mount Pleasant: Arcadia Publishing Inc, 2015. . Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/Jo08Owkgeps" target="_blank">Oral History of Fairolyn Livingston</a> Transcript Cravero Alright. Today is Thursday, December 12th, 2019. My name is Geoffrey Cravero. And with me is Dr. Connie Lester. I’m speaking with Fairolyn Livingston at the Hannibal Square Heritage Center in Winter Park, Florida. Ms. Livingston, thank you for speaking with us today. Uh, if we can, let’s begin with a little of your biography. Could you tell us a bit about where you’re originally from and your upbringing? Livingston Well, I’m originally from Winter Park, Florida. I was born a block away from here at 800 West New England Avenue here in the city. In the area called Hannibal Square. I attended the local schools here. Of course, during my time, those school were segregated. And, uh, once we finished sixth grade here in the community, we were bussed to the segregated Hungerford High School over in Eatonville, Florida. I attended the churches in the community. Participated in the activities at the community center that had been built for the African American community. Uh, I had a happy childhood. You know? Because—I would say because the community was segregated, and we lived among people who looked like us. So the preacher was—the preacher looked like me. The—the students in the churches looked like me. The teachers looked like me. So I can probably say that we might have been a little bit, uh, as children, unaware of segregation or racism. You know? Because that was the way it was. I’m sure our parents knew because ofttimes they would warn us about different things and different places. Uh, what we might face. Some harm or some harsh words. Or some ugly words. But, other than that, um, I would say I had a good childhood. Cravero Excellent. Um, would you tell us a little bit about your experiences at Hungerford High School, and then, eventually, at Rollins College? And how those experiences might have influenced your work. Livingston Well, at Hungerford High School, uh, we started at the seventh-grade level. And we went through, uh, twelfth grade. And I graduated in 1964. Teachers—they were good teachers. But they also made sure that we towed the line. You know? Because not only was it about academics, which was very strenuous, but also about your conduct and how you carried yourself. That was very important. So it didn’t matter what background you came from. Whether or not you was—you were middle class, uh, uh, any other class. You learned how to conduct yourself in any kind of situation. You know? In our Home Economics classes, not only did we learn to sew and do homemaker-type things, but also how to serve and how to, uh, properly set tables. And—and use the, uh, eating utensils and all. So everything prepared us for the world that we would be entering. And that world would have been a world that was segregated. So w—we were treated, uh, and educated to survive in that type of world. In other words, we were somebody. We were knowledgeable. We could do anything we wanted to do. They always let us know that we could accomplish whatever we wanted to accomplish. So we never felt like we were hindered because of segregation or racism. In fact, uh, Climmie Boyer, who was several years older than myself and a graduate from Hungerford, he once said in the seventies when we had a celebration to honor our former principal at the school, that we really didn’t know we were poor until they told us. You know? Until they started saying everything about poverty and—and low income. You know? We [laughs]—we didn’t know we were poor. So I guess that’s why some of us—well, many of us out of this community were able to overcome. Because we didn’t have that kind of a thing stuck into our heads by our educators. After I graduated from high school, I didn’t think that I would be able to go to college because I was raised by my grandmother with three other siblings. And I was the oldest. And basically, I was like the matriarch of my siblings. Um, I got scholarship offers, but I knew that my family didn’t have the money to fill in the gap. So basically [clears throat], even though I desired to go, I had more or less, um, accepted the fact that it would not happen. And then one Sunday, I was in church at New Hope Missionary Baptist Church on Capen Avenue. I was in the choir stand because I sang in the junior choir. And the usher came to the choir door and asked me to come out. That there was a gentleman there that wanted to talk to me. And so I left the choir stand and went around, uh, to the front of the church. And the gentleman was—was from a segregated community college in Leesburg, Florida. And, uh, he offered me a scholarship. You know? That I—that—that he had just, you know, studied my transcript and whatever. Then I got an offer from a community college in Ocala, Florida. Hampton Junior College. That’s now Central Florida State College. And I accepted that one because they told me that they would, you know, find me some part-time work to fill in the gap between financial aid, et cetera. Not knowing my—unknown to me, rather, my grandmother, Victoria Redfin, she went down to the First National Bank on Park Avenue and New England, where Luma’s on Park is now. And she went to the cashier at the—the teller. And she wanted to s—know if she could borrow some money to help send her granddaughter to college. And the teller told her to go over and talk to one of the ladies that handle loans. And so my grandmother went over there. And the lady told her, “Why don’t you go upstairs and talk to Mrs. Nancy Bradford?” Mrs. Nancy Bradford was a part of Winter Park’s Worthy Persons group, which now, I believe, is part of the Winter Park Foundation. So my grandmother went up to see Mrs. Bradford. And Mrs. Bradford, unbeknownst to me or my grandmother, started some paperwork with the people on the committee that included Mrs., uh, J. Lynn Pflug . Mrs. Pflug’s husband had once been the mayor of Winter Park. So Mrs. Pflug and others—they did the research. You know? Contacted my high school. Contacted the junior college where I was. And next thing I knew, I got a letter from them saying that they would be financing me for the school year. And, uh, for two years, I got that scholarship. Every two weeks without fail, I got a stipend, uh, from that group. So that’s how I ended up being able to go to—to college. However, I got pregnant after I graduated and got my A.A. degree. And so my dreams of finishing a four-year college, you know, got backburnered. And, uh, it wasn’t until the late-seventies that I started going to evening classes at Rollins College. I had some financial aid, but mostly I paid for my own. And, um, I had worked for the State of Florida since about 1971, so I had a lot of savings bonds. It was toward the end of the journey. I started cashing in the savings bonds to pay for my tuition. Well, it was my last session, and I was out of financial options, if you will. I had a friend of mine. She was from Dunedin, Florida. Her, uh, parents owned a, uh—their own business. And they were avid golfers. And they were supportive of, uh, what used to be the tournament at Rio Pinar, and then subsequently at Bay Hill. Her father always participated and contributed to, uh, a scholarship fund led by Lee Elder . Lee Elder was a black golfer. And so I guess she must have shared with him my story because she invited me and my children over to her parents. And we’d visit them off and on over the years. And her father said to me—she and her parents—both her parents were there. She said, “You know, every year, we donate money to Lee Elder’s scholarship fund. And we have no doubt that Lee does the right thing with that money. But we have decided that, since we know someone who can use that money, we’re gonna divert that money to you.” And that’s how I was able to graduate from Rollins Hamilton Holt in 1983. So I come from a situation of “it takes a village.” You know? Whoever I am, whatever I am, it come from this community. And that was sewn into me. Basically, I’d say it’s in my DNA. And because of the way I conduct myself. I’ll never forget the bridge that brought me over. That draws people to me. And people willing to be there with—with and—and for me. And for that, I’m eternally grateful. So that’s how I got from not being able to go into college and thinking that to actually finishing up with an A.A. degree and subsequentl—subsequently with a B.A. degree. So I’ve had a lot of, uh, blessings from on high. You know? It wasn’t that—it wasn’t Fairolyn. Because there’s a saying that, uh, “sometimes you find yourself in a place and you only see one set of footprints. And that’s because God carried you.” And sometimes when I got to a certain place, I’d wonder, “How did I get here?” You know? I just— I j[laughs]—it just—it’s just amazing. Just amazing. Cravero Um, what—can you tell us about, uh—what is the Heritage Collection Team and how did you become involved in that project? Livingston Well, around 1999, 2000, Peter Schreyer with the Crealdé School of Art here in Winter Park—he had been working in the community with the seniors and the children for a number of years. You know? Providing, uh, opportunities for art. For, you know, underserved people in the community. He had won, uh, a grant from the Winter Park Public Library. And this was in the nineties. And I had won the same grant a couple years later. His project was photographic. He photographed and—the interior and the exterior of all the local churches. My project was to find some way to document the early history of the community and the role that African Americans played in the community. You know? Because when you would go to different archives, you would see different people of color in the pictures, but they weren’t named. So we didn’t know who they were. They were just faceless. And they were mostly in subservient-type situations. When I knew growing up that that wasn’t all that the black people did. So it’s kind of odd how it happened because I didn’t set out to—to get—to apply for that grant. A group of people in the community were trying to save the Ideal Woman’s Club building . That building had once been on the property and used by the First Congregational Church here in Winter Park. And when the Ideal Woman’s Club started in the late-1920s, one of the members, Mrs. Mary Lee DePugh —she worked for Mrs. Maud Kraft. And Mrs. Kraft interceded on behalf of the women to get the building. And then there was fundraising involved, uh, to buy a lot here on Pennsylvania Avenue. And to have the building moved. Well, in the late-nineties, DePugh Nursing Home needed more space. And so, the board offered to buy or trade the land where the original building was placed to a site across the street. But the people in the community wanted the building saved. But they didn’t have the resources, nor the backing to make that happen. You know? There wasn’t enough interest citywide and there wasn’t any money communitywide to do that. You know? ‘Cause years later, Casa Feliz got moved. And then, the Capen House got moved. But that was private money, even though they moved, uh, Casa—uh, sorry—Casa Feliz to the golf course property, which is city-owned. That effort, it failed. And there were some members of the First Congregational Church who tried to work with us. To try and direct us to find some funds to move the building. To save it. But there were people that said—on the board and connected in the community—um, that said that the—that the building was, uh, termite-ridden and it wasn’t worth saving. But someone, uh, had someone come down from the department that takes care of s—you know, that takes care of, uh, uh, preservation. And they said that the only part of the—of the building that was termite-ridden was the section that they had put on years later to close the porch in. See ‘cause there had been an open porch for years. And then they closed that porch in. And that was the part that was—had some termite problems. The rest of the place—uh, building was all this pine. And this was—was no damage. But, of course, we didn’t get the support needed. So, uh, the building was razed and a new building put up. Long story short, I had been reading about this in the newspaper. I wasn’t living in Winer Park at the time. And it seemed like every time I picked up the paper, there was all of this negative about Hannibal Square. “Oh, the crime. And the drinking. And the brawling. And the drugs and stuff.” And I said, “That’s not where I grew up. I—W—What is this?” Yes. There’s always been people that did some of those things, but it wasn’t the whole community. You know? And they were just painting this community with this broad s—stroke as being such a terrible place to be. And that somebody needed to do something about it. Finally—and I saw about—that article in the Sentinel about, uh, razing the building and the [inaudible] of the community. And I said, “I’m gonna go to one of the meetings.” So I went to a meeting. I sat on the front row. The people who were con—who were conducting the meeting, I knew ‘em all ‘cause we all grew up together. So—but I didn’t want to get quote involved. You know? I just wanted to see what’s going on. So I sat there and I tried not to make eye contact. And I guess at some point, I must have relaxed. And I made eye contact with Eileen Abraham Bryant, who was part of the group that was trying to save it. And she mouthed to me, “We need you.” And I was hooked. That led to me applying for a grant at the library—Winter Park Public Library. And I was—and I got that grant. It was hard at first. Trying to get information. Because [clears throat]—excuse me. Because people in the community—many were reluctant to talk about the past because they were afraid that a—in other words, they—they never said this to me, but I got the feeling that they were afraid that I might be digging up dirt. But when they began to see that I wasn’t digging up dirt, that I was trying to document the rich history of this community, most people got on board with that. I remember as a child, my stepfather had an uncle. Frederick Simpson . Frederick—Frederick would travel all around the country. And then he would come home and stay for a few weeks. And then he’d disappear. He was in and out. And Fred would always talk about his father worked for the city. Or some kind of way involved with the city government. But, you know, as children, you know, you hear these stories. We really didn’t give much thought to it. And so that’s where I started digging to only find out that he was the son of one of the first African American men to serve on the Town Council of Winer Park. Elected in 1887 and served to 1893. And then I was able to find out that a young woman that basically was raised by the Simpson Family, that grew up in the community, that her great-grandfather was Frank R. Israel . The second black man to serve at the same time period on the Winter Park Town—Town Council. And so through, uh, the archives at the Winter Park Public Library, Rollins Library, Ancestry.com, cemeteries, interviews with many, many people, I was able to flesh out that criti—the critical roles the African American plays in the community. One of my great sources—well, two of my great sources were Mrs. Wilhelmina Allen , whose family came here as early as 1875, and had property out across the railroad track on Pennsylvania Avenue. Then I had, uh, Mr. Alonzo Gerard Roberts , whose family came here around 1881, when Chase and a couple of his investors and supporters went over to Volusia County to where black men were working on the railroad to try to hire some black men to come and help hew out the community—the 600 acres he bought in, uh, Hannibal Square. Acres that he—‘cause he planned Hannibal Square specifically for an African American community. And so his grandfather was one of those men. And his grandfather also worked for Mr. Dommerich over in Maitland. And he owned property on the opposite side of Lake, uh—Lake Maitland. So he had groves. And then he would go across the lake and take care of the Dommerich groves. In fact, before they built their house at 1001 New York Avenue, which is now home to the First Baptist Church, he and his wife lived on the Dommerich property. Yeah. So those two were very critical. Along with, uh, Mrs. Rose Charlton Bynum , whose family had been here since the early eight—1800s. Uh, well, around 1881, ‘82. And then, uh, her brother, Richard Harold Charlton Jr. So a lot of people I’ve interviewed, uh—Walter Simpson’s granddaughters. All of them are deceased now. But he has, uh, great, uh—great-grands and great-great-grands still living in—in the area. You know? So, um. I wasn’t shocked. Because as a kid growing up, you know—you know, in my time of growing up, a lot of the churches didn’t have church every Sunday because the minister might have been, uh, assigned to a church here for two Sundays a month, and then somewhere else, and maybe in a rural area, for two Sundays a month. And so growing up, we all went—it didn’t matter whether or not we were Baptist. It didn’t matter whether or not we were African Methodist Episcopal. Whether or not we were members of Church of God and Christ or any denomination. We all went to the different churches. In fact, the first church/school building in the community that was built after the community was platted—because Chase donated our lot for a combination church and school. So as a result, uh, two Sundays a month, the Methodists would use the church. And then two Sunday a month, the Baptists would use the church. It wasn’t until the town was actually incorporated in 1887, and later, that they actually took over the school for coloreds, as they called it at that time. And then the council gave the trustees of each church, the Methodists and the Baptists, money to buy other land and build their respective churches on that land. And that resulted in Mount Moriah Missionary Baptist Church, which is at the corner of Lyman and Pennsylvania Avenues, and Ward Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Church, at the corner of Welbourne and Pennsylvania Avenues. They were the first two churches established in the community. Mount Mariah being the oldest church. And so as a kid, I would follow the Johnson children and the Berrys, my neighbors, down to Mount Moriah for Sunday school. Mrs. Ethel Cross, who was—lived on the same property as we did because the lot that my grandmother bought was 50 by about 100. And so she sold the back side of the lot to Mrs. Cross, who built a house. And so, uh, Mrs. Cross belonged to Ward Chapel AME Church. And so many Sundays, I went with her. And then Mr. Bobby Washington, whose sister-in-law lived across the street from us—he was the superintendent of the Sunday school at Ward Chapel. And many times, he would pick me up and take me to Sunday school at Ward Chapel. So I was all over the place. And not—but not just me. That’s the way the community was. We all went to different churches other than our own churches. And I think that’s a part of, um, the success that we experienced. Uh, because we had so much exposure to different types of religions. Different types of services. Different types of people. They called, uh—I remember growing up, they called Mount Moriah “the big hat church” because the women wore big hats. You know? And, uh, it—it was—it was a—it was a good experience. You know? It was… Cravero Um [clears throat], could you tell us a little about, uh, some of the most memorable, or maybe even difficult, oral histories that you’ve conducted? Livingston I would say the most difficult would have been, um, the interviews I’ve done with the Sage Project. We’ve had, uh, three phrases—phases of the sage, where we interview people in the community ages 80 and up. And some of them—they really felt that the community had not been fairly represented and treated fairly in what was going on with gentrification. Some spoke on record. Some of them spoke off record. Some felt that, basically, members of the African American community were complicit in the gentrification. And by that, I mean that some of the later generations inherited property and opportunities. And did not stand up to the plate to do what they needed to do to hold onto it. But for the most part, I would say all the stories were just funny. Uplifting. Sometimes we ended up just laughing. And, uh—and what made it so good was that I knew all these people because I grew up among them. I went to school with their children. And I had respect—not only respected them for—for—for decades. It’s—I would say I’ve never been disappointed in any interview I’ve done, no matter how it went. I just feel bad for those people who—especially any elderly person who ended up losing their property or not being, you know, um, fairly compensated I would say. But, um, for the most part, I understood and respected their stories. And, um, I don’t think that they were making ‘em up. They just was[sic] happy to share the happy parts of their lives rather than—you know, because it’s like Zora Neale Hurston said, “Believe it or not, these people, including myself, we didn’t—we didn’t live in the kitchen of despair.” You know? We had lives. You know? We valued our institutions. We valued our schools. You know? Just like people value on the east side of town. You know? You know? We have the same feelings about the people in our community in the—in our churches. In our schools. In our children. You know? Um, my family never had a telephone. We never had a car. But that wasn’t a problem because somebody in my neighborhood would, um, let us use the phone if we needed to. And take us someplace if we needed to. And especially if we needed to go to something at the Hungerford School in Eatonville. You know, I had to catch a ride to my graduation, you know, uh, from high school. But most—for the most part, we used the city bus to get around. We would go up to the corner of Morse and Pennsylvania in front of the Hague’s grocery and catch the bus to Orlando. And the terminal at that time was on Pine Street. And then we could go and do our shopping and whatever we wanted to do downtown. But if you wanted to go outside of that, then we’d have to get a transfer to go someplace else in the city. You know, sometimes people go and they look at you and they see that—that you’re different and you don’t look like them. They don’t realize that you have the same challenges. Ups. Downs. Highs. Lows. Maybe for different reasons and different ways, but it’s not like you’re walking around sulking. You know? Because, uh, this was a great place to grow up. This place was so great to grow up in that back in, um, the early-2000s, I sold a house I owned in Winter Park to my daughter and son-in-law so that they—so that like their mother—like my grandchildren’s mother and uncle grew up in Winter Park, I wanted them to experience growing up in Winter Park. So my son graduated from Winter Park High. My daughter. And my 18-year-old grandson just graduated last year. And he’s in college in Michigan. So it was good. Cravero Um… Livingston And one thing I want to add is… Cravero [clears throat]. Livingston …those people that I interviewed for the Sage Project, they all owned their homes. They bought their homes in thirties and forties and fifties. And they were mortgage-free. And these people did daywork. They worked in the laundry. They worked at Rollins. They worked at the Alabama Hotel. They worked at the Morrison’s Cafeteria. And they had their own homes. And that’s something now will not be happening in—in Winter Park. If you left Winter Park for whatever reason, unless you have some big bucks, you cannot come back. And the thing about it is, you know, this is my opinion, everybody wants a—they want a, uh, prestigious Winter Park address. And they want a sense of community. But the people I see who live here, I never see them outside their homes. I know who they are just by the homes. But I never see them out. I don’t see their children in the street playing stickball like we did coming up. Or playing hopscotch. Just out there playing. You know? And being. And doing. I know they’re there, because I can tell from the new houses that they put here. I guess they just come home and close up. And then come out. You know, and do whatever they do during the day. I’m sure some of them, they have a relationship with their neighbors. I mean, they’re neighbors. But I don’t see the sense of community that I grew up with. And for them, I feel sorry that they don’t have that experience. You know, they don’t know how to have that experience. Cravero That was actually touching on my, uh, next question. Was, um—would you tell us a little bit about some of the major changes that have taken place in Hannibal Square and what that means in being able to preserve the history of the community? Livingston Well, I would say the only saving—one of the only—well, I—I’ll put it like this. There are some things in the community. Okay? The Hannibal Square Heritage Center here. This is something that will help preserve the community. I—you have to realize that, uh, we have a 30-year lease with the City of Winter Park. We’ve already burned through 10 years. So we don’t know what the future might hold. We don’t know whether or not 20 years from now, when it’s time to request a renewal or whatever—not only that, in the interim. Because if either one of us could break the—the lease requirement, you know, with the proper notification. So we don’t know what might happen with this. We might get people on the council who don’t support this. They may say, “Well, we’ve got a history association downtown at the farmer’s market. Why do we need two?” So as far as seeing differences, you know, I grew up—now, Hannibal Square’s always been kind of a conflicting community, as far as the business section was concerned. That’s because there was a bar. And they had little cafeterias that sold, uh, liquor and beer. And they had restaurants that sold, uh, alcoholic beverages. And you had, uh, barber shops, etc. Dry cleaners. You name it. So most families did not want their children in Hannibal Square in the business section. Because of the alcohol and booze. They—we were against that. You know? It wasn’t against the—the insti—the, uh, businesses. But they didn’t want they’re children exposed to that. But I remember as a teenager, we loved to walk past the square [laughs]. We didn’t dare go in the square, but we—that was one of our rights of passage. And then we got to driving age and had cars, we would drive through the square. It was like a right of passage. [laughs] So, um—but, you know, there was a grocery store. And one of the grocery stores I grew up with was owned by a white family. And, um, they would give you credit on the food. Then there was another groc—there was[sic] two grocery stores owned by white families. The Davises. I can’t remember the other. Prevatt. The Prevatts and the Davises. The Davises had a store right there where Dexter’s used to be. At the corner of Pennsylvania and New England. And the Prevatts had one on the opposite side. Close to Hannibal Square East. And then the Davises moved north, near the corner of, uh, Pennsylvania and Canton in one of the, uh, Masonic lodge buildings downstairs. Which is now home to a new boutique-style, uh, store called—it was called The Grove or The Glove. Was it? Something. It’s brand new. So, you know, I’ve seen a lot of changes. Uh, there’s only one barber shop, um, on the corner that had been there for a number of years. All the barbers that—well, two of the barbers that worked there f—one of the barbers that worked there, he’s deceased. And the other one is still living. But, they’re, you know—he’s older. This is a new group here. And, um, we had a dry cleaners. Mr. Hurley’s. Back during that time, when I was a teenager, coming up as a young person, uh, when we wore our jeans—we took our jeans to the dry cleaners. And they’d put starch in ‘em. And then they would press ‘em. And you’d have a crease in there that was so sharp, that if you did—if you weren’t careful, you might cut yourself [laughs]. Mr. Hurley was a professional, um, hat blocker. That was his specialty. And then we had, um, hairdressers in the community. We had Mrs. Christine Hardaway. We had Mrs. Alberta Kelly. We had Ms. Nellie Mae Lewis. We had, um, several more. We had many hairdressers. Because during that time, um, I was growing up, most African Americans, you know, they’d straighten their hair, you know, with a hot pressing comb and things like that. Now we’ve come to accept and appreciate our kinky hair. So it’s, you know—we had the community center, where we’d have Saturday night dance—dances with teenagers. We had Saturday night dances. Uh, when I was in elementary school, during the, uh, World Series baseball games, um, if you wanted to go and watch the baseball on a little, small tv sitting up on the stage, they would bring the kids over who wanted to watch the baseball game. Um, that’s—community center had a jukebox in it. So if you’re doing, you know—if you went over there during the daytime, you know—went after school or whatever, you could play the jukebox and pool table. And, of course, like I said, the Saturday night dance [digital alarm rings]. And now at that time, there was a, uh, dj on AM radio, was named—they called him Little Daddy. And he visited all the rural African American communities in Central Florida. So wherever he was scheduled to go for the weekend or Saturday night, he would advertise it during his show. And most times, he would say something like, “Okay. We’re gonna be in Winter Park Saturday night. Practice, Winter Park. Practice, Winter Park.” And we would all be so excited to go to the community center for the dances. And we didn’t go to summer camp. The churches were our summer camps. Because in the summertime, many of the women who worked outside their homes, they would take time off their jobs and provide vacation Bible school for us. So we had like nine or ten churches in the community. Or more. So each church would take a week. So you didn’t have to be conflicted about where you wanted to go. So by the time you made it through nine to ten churches, you’ve already had your summer camp. You know, we would study the Bible. And we would learn Bible verses. And then we would do, uh, little skits at the end of the week. Every day we had our Kool-Aid and our sandwiches. And a cookie. And the women were very nice and kind to us. Didn’t matter whether or not you went to the S—Seventh Day Adventist Church or the Church of God in Christ or a Baptist church, etc. [clears throat] So you know, we—we had a—we used to fish the lakes of Winter Park. Because often, black people worked on those estates. And so we knew a lot of them. And so when we would go to fish, we could go into the yard. And usually the butler or the maid or some house, uh, worker or servant would come out wondering how you—how we’re fishing. You know? What—what are we doing? Are you catching anything? And a lot of times they would bring out cold water or tea, you know, for you. So we were allowed to go into these properties. But now, a lot of times I think about, “Well, I won’t really drive down that street again.” ‘Cause I remember walking down that street. And there was a st—a stand of, um, cane poles that my grandmother used to cut from and let it dry out. I said, “But I’m sure if I drive that there now, especially if I drive slowly, just reminiscing, I’ll probably get the cops called on me. You know? But those are the things. Uh, we couldn’t go to the public library. Mm-mm. With help from Rollins College, um, professor of books—I can’t remember his name right now. And it’s a shame that I don’t. Um, he donated books and a bookshelf. In the—in memory of his wife. ‘Cause his wife was active with the black children at the Hannibal Square Elementary School. She would come and read to the children and provide books. And then he started a campaign. And said, “Rather than, um, sending flowers, donate a book or books to the school.” And eventually, that led to an effort and the success to build a library in Hannibal Square. So it was in the sixties before we could go to the library. I’m right here in ’64 in Winter Park [clears throat]. By the time they had a library in, um—by the time we were allowed to go to the library across town, I had read every book probably in the Hannibal Square [laughs] library. Some of ‘em probably twice [laughs]. And so—but, you know, i—i—it didn’t—w—we didn’t resort to saying somebody saying, “Well… Cravero [clears throat]. Livingston …I’m not gonna read because I want to go to the white library.” You know? I—i—w—we went to the library. And we, you know—and a lot of families at the time, they invested in buying, um—Oh, god. Here we go. Britannica. Uh. Lester Encyclopedias. Encyclopedias. Livingston Encyclopedias. And so you would go to your friend’s house. Some people didn’t even have the complete set yet. They might have had—they might have bought A through D. You know? And then the next year, they might buy F through whatever. And some people were able to buy the whole set. So you would go to your friend’s house and use their encyclopedias. And so it was—there’s a lot of change. I remember one time this, uh—it was in the sixties. Early sixties. There was a restaurant. A little burger joint on, um… Cravero [clears throat]. Livingston …Fairbanks Avenue called The Golden Point. Now every Sunday after church, me and a group of friends would—after dinner, usually at one of my friend’s house, mostly Doris Taylor’s house [laughs], we would take a little walk around the community. So this particular Sunday, we decided we’d go to The Golden Point. So we walked up to the window and the lady told us—the young lady told us that we had to go to the side to order. And we said no. We wanted to order there. And so what she did was she closed the window down. So we stood there for a while. And after it was obvious that they were not going to serve us, we began to walk away. But as soon as we walked away, she opened the window back up to serve a white customer. I’ll never forget one time, um, this was around ’57 or ’58, when they first put a 7-Eleven at the corner of Pennsylvania and Fairbanks. My mother had given me money to go and buy a loaf of bread. I went to the store and I got the bread. And I gave the young man, the cashier, a 20-dollar bill. When he gave me back my change, it was not correct. But he gave me a look to say, “Don’t you dare challenge me.” Now it wasn’t so much that I was afraid to challenge him. I was afraid that this would create a problem for my mother. Because my mother was one of those people that just didn’t take any hostages. And I knew my mother would go back down there and probably tear the place up and end up in jail. So I had to go home and lie to my mother. I—I lied to my mother. I said, “I must have dropped some of your change.” ‘Cause I knew she was not going to let it go. I’ll never forget one day I was crossing Park Avenue at New England on my way to Hogue’s Five & Dime store. On Saturdays, sometimes we would get, uh, 25 cents or 10 cents. You know, like I said there was[sic] three of us. Four. Four of us. And we would go down to Hogue’s and buy the little, you know, rick racks and jackstones and different little things. It would always be crowded with children because the children would be—be—the white children would be down—would be down on Park Avenue for the Colony Theater. Because of the movies. This time, as I was crossing the street, there were three little white boys. And they were snickering. And I could tell from their body language that something bad was coming to me. And so as we passed each other, one of ‘em snickered and said—and called me Aunt—Aunt Jemima. Aunt Jemima. That’s the pancake mix. Well, during that time, that was not something to be called. You might has well have used the n-word. So sometimes I wonder. These people that I had these encounters with, are they—are they now or before—were they on the City Council? You know? Are they in places of power? And have they changed? And have they taught their children these same things against people who don’t look like them? I—I wonder about those things. And now as I began to be among a lot of people who are not of color, I see the connection that they all have. They know everything about us and we know nothing about them. So that gives them leverage. That gives them the upper hand. Because many of the older people who have gone on, and many who are aged now, worked for a lot of those families. And those older people from our community share some of their pain about their life or their children. About their husband. About their wife. And so that’s been passed on to generations. And that feeds the negative feeling about people in—in my community. You know? Just like, uh, historians. Historians in the community, they are only concerned about white history. I’m not only concerned about black history. I’m concerned about all history because I can see the thread. I could see the—I could see each—in other words, when you tell your story, there’s a component story from this community that is parallel to that. And people don’t always see that. I know many years ago in the paper, someone wrote that if you didn’t graduate from Winter Park High, you didn’t live in Winter Park. That’s to disenfranchise those of us who had to go to the segregated schools, which was not a call that we could make. And then when you go to Winter Park High—if you go to one of their yearbooks around ’70-’71—now this was after the Civil Rights Movement. In the yearbook, there’s a redneck club, which is fine. But one of the kids has a noose around his neck. Then there’s a poem in that yearbook. “How much does your daddy make? Does he have enough—make enough to live on a lake? And buy his wife a long-length mink? Or does he live in a…” I can’t remember the whole poem. But does he live in, you know, like a low-income place? Or maybe he doesn’t work at all. That’s in the yearbook. In 1971-72. So I wonder. Those children in that picture. What are they doing? Are they still here? And then in a picture, they showed, uh, the black student. And the pictures of the black student looking like the—tish[sic]—pictures of black students in the picture, they look like—they look like they’re stressed about learning. You know? Like they’re confused or something. They look like they’re challenged about whatever they’re trying to—to look at. You know? Then they took pictures on the back side of some of the old rooming houses in there to show, I guess, where these black children come from. And then they have a section called, “The Community”. And that’s where they show Downtown Park Avenue. The houses on the lake. Blah, blah, blah [laughs]. You know, the first African American didn’t attend Winter Park High School until the 1964-65 school year. This was a young lady. Barbara King Lloyd. She lived on Lyman Avenue. She had one brother. Scriven. But they always attended school and church with their family in Orlando. The came from p—a pioneer family here. And, um, they picked—she was picked to attend the school. I guess as a test. And I would say, um, in my opinion, she was picked because she was very fair-skinned. It wouldn’t be so obvious. They wouldn’t pick me. Y—you know? And she was not treated well at all. She was ostracized. And it was tough on her. This was a young woman who had come from Jones High School in Orlando. She’d been a majorette. She was a star student. You know? So she was popular. She’s in Girl Scouts here. You know? Very involved with everything. And she’d go there. And for hours on hours a day, had to—had to face that. One year, when she—when they had a reunion, the [Orlando] Sentinels[sic] contacted her. She was living in Miami-Dade County around that area at the time. And asked her about wh—whether or not she would be attending the reunion. And she said no. That she would not be attending. And then they interviewed some of the classmates. And some of them expressed remorse for the way that they—they didn’t reach out. They didn’t try to welcome her in any way. So—but this is not an anomaly. This happens all over the—the country. Most specially in the South. See, the people think of Florida, they think of beaches and palm trees. But the same dynamics that play out all over the country plays out here. Yeah. Anyway, Mr. Rogers , you know, he attended Rollins. And he graduated in 1951. Well, Mr. Rogers spent time in this community at the Winter—at the Welbourne Avenue Nursery and Kindergarten through the Human Relations Council at his school. By the time Mr. Rogers got here, the enrollment at the Hungerford School had declined. Because before the early-fifties, the Hungerford School had been a private school. Boarding school for African Americans. And so when enrollment went down, and I guess they couldn’t afford the teachers, Mr. Rogers and many of the students in his department and members of the Humanity Council would go over to Hungerford and actually teach the classes. You know? And work with the children. And things like that. Yeah. Hamilton Holt . He was a little different. You know, he was good friends with Zora Neale Hurston. Zora Neale wanted to put on a play. But she couldn’t do it at the main campus. They had another theater somewhere around present-day Virginia or Fern Creek Avenue area. So she could—she was allowed to use that. Many of the people in her play, especially the singing parts, came from this community. So, you know, Hamilton, the Ball Family. The Balls. They worked for Hamilton Holt. Every year when he would go to his estate, you know—the people are connected someplace. Uh, they would go with him. In fact, uh, Mrs.—Mrs. Ball, uh—her son, who’s still living, he’s in Atlanta now—whenever she would go with them to their estate, she would leave her son, young son, with her father. And one summer, the child cried and was so upset about his mother leaving that Hamilton Holt had the kid brought to the estate. And from that time on, every summer he went with his mother to the estate. So there were some kind people. I’m—I’m not saying everybody—I’m not—I don’t—I don’t wanna do what they do. I don’t wanna be like them. I don’t wanna paint the whole city. There are pockets of people. There are people that you don’t even know that have empathy for what has happened to this community. I just don’t know who a lot of ‘em are. I know a lot of ‘em. But then there’s many more that I do not know. It’s a great place to live. It is. And I can see why people would want to come in. I just hope that they enjoy it as much as I do. Did and still do. I drive from Mount Dora at least two or three days a week coming here. ‘Cause I love this place. Yeah. Cravero Well, appreciate you sharing your story with us today, Ms. Livingston. I think you’ve answered all of my questions. Is there anything else that you’d like to add? Do you have any final thoughts to share before we wrap up the interview? Livingston Well, sometimes I wonder. I know where some of the people who were just relocated, uh—had to leave because of gentrification or for whatever reasons. And I know some of ‘em are living in Altamonte [Springs] or Eatonville. And Pine Hills. And somewhere in another area. But when, uh, people who do development—and I’m not anti-development. I know things change. When they are the ones that—the thing about gentrification, there’s no, uh, requirement that they see that people get compensated in some ways to make that move. And cities, not just Winter Park, but cities around this country, they allow that to happen because they don’t have to pay the location money. I think one of the biggest problems is that a lot of people have given up on local, state and national politicians. A lot of people don’t vote. They think once they’ve registered and get the card, that’s the end of it. But that’s just the first step. I know that African American communities, uh, their lifetime is just about over. Uh, many states, including Florida, have what they call the partition laws. And that helps bring about gentrification. The partition laws are where let’s say me and my three siblings own—or we’re heirs to property. And there is no—no will to say who actually gets it. Or how it should be divided. And let’s say it is divided. And out of the four, let’s say I’m living in the home. But let’s say one of my brothers might be paying the taxes and he’s in another state. The other two may have no interest. So when the developer contacts any of those three and says, “I’ll give you x number of dollars for your share,” well, the one that’s paying the tax deal may feel, “This frees me up. And then I get a few dollars.” And the other two, they may be doing very well, wherever they’re living. And, you know, don’t plan on coming back here. And so they sell their share. But then it only takes one person to buy—to—to sell their share. And then the developer can get a judgement against the remaining members to buy the property. In other words, what they’re gonna look—go for the judgement in, they’re gonna say, you know, “I’m ready to move forward with my investment. And this is costing me money because these other two people will not sell.” This is happening right now in North Carolina and Georgia. South Carolina. With farm property. Petition. And it’s legal. But you know, everything legal, it’s not always right. Lester Thank you. Cravero Thank you very much. This has been Geoffrey Cravero and Dr. Connie Lester with Fairolyn Livingston at the Hannibal Square Heritage Center in Winter Park, Florida, on Thursday, December 12th, 2019. Thank you. 7-Eleven African American churches African American community African American schools African Americans Agnes Maude Houston Kraft Alabama Hotel Alberta Kelly Alonzo Gerard “Trick” Roberts Arnold Palmer Invitational Baptist Church Barbara King Lloyd Bay Hill Club and Lounge Capen House Casa Feliz Historic Home Museum Central Florida State College Christine Hardaway Church of God and Christ churches Climmie Boyer Colony Theater community activism Connie Lester Crealdé School of Art Crummer Graduate School of Business DePugh Nursing Home desegregation discrimination Doris Taylor Eatonville education Eileen Abraham Bryant Ethel Cross Fairolyn Livingston First Congregational Church of Winter Park Florida Citrus Open Invitational Frank R. Israel Fred McFeely Rogers Frederick P. Simpson gentrification Geoffrey Cravero golf Hamilton Holt Hampton Junior College Hannibal Square Hannibal Square Heritage Center Heritage Collection Team historical preservation Hogue's Five & Dime Hungerford High School Ideal Woman’s Club of Winter Park, Inc. integration J. Lynn Pflug Jones High School Kelly Pflug Lee Elder Little Danny Loring Augustus Chase Louis Ferdinand Dommerich Mary Lee DePugh Morrison's Cafeteria Mount Moriah Missionary Baptist Church Mr. Rogers Nancy Bradford Nellie Mae Lewis New Hope Missionary Baptist Church Ocala Oral histories oral history partitian laws Peter Schreyer PGA Tour poverty racism recreational activities Richard Harold Charlton Jr. Rio Pinar Country Club Robert Hungerford Preparatory High School Rollins College Rose Charlton Bynum Sage Project segregated schools segregation Seventh Day Adventist Church The Golden Point Victoria Redfin Ward Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Church Welbourne Nursery & Kindergarten Inc Wilhelmina Hernandez Allen Winter Park Winter Park Foundation Winter Park High School Winter Park Public Library Winter Park’s Worthy Persons https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/3da2cef58471c6e942834f73448816cb.mp3 4e82a1f35c2e960aedcffe0ff393d822 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c082f79011d3bb6dc365c694170b623e.pdf cd9bc9537642de3a8bd248b0ed3a2661 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Jared Muha Collection Subject Lake Apopka (Fla.) Agriculture--Florida Migrant labor Apopka (Fla.) Description A collection of oral history interviews conducted by Jared Muha. Creator Muha, Jared Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Jeannie Economos Alternative Title Oral History, Economos Subject Lake Apopka (Fla.) Apopka (Fla.) Migrant labor Agriculture--Florida Description An oral history interview of Jeannie Economos, the Pesticide Safety and Environmental Health Project Coordinator at the Farmworker Association of Florida (FAF), who also worked as Lake Apopka Project Coordinator for the FAF, as well as for non-profit organizations such as the Audubon Society and Save the Manatee Club. The interview was conducted by Jared Muha at the FAF in Apopka on December 10, 2014. Topics discussed in the interview include a summary of her career, the Lake Apopka Project versus the Lake Apopka Restoration Act of 1996, the Farmworker Association of Florida, pesticide health and safety, common environmental challenges facing farmworkers, the necessity of farmworkers, the evolution of farmworkers, African-American farmworkers in Apopka, the shutdown of Lake Apopka, effects of the shutdown on African-American farmworkers, the influx of Hispanic farmworkers, and the future of farm labor in the United States. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:16 Lake Apopka Project and the Lake Apopka Restoration Act of 1996 0:02:52 Farmworker Association of Florida 0:04:57 Pesticide health and safety 0:06:01 Common environmental challenges facing farmworkers 0:08:48 Necessity and evolution of the FAF 0:13:15 Ethnic makeup and race relations among farmworkers in Apopka 0:24:47 Shutdown of Lake Apopka 0:32:18 Replacing African-American workers with Hispanic workers 0:38:32 Remembering farmworkers 0:46:45 The future of farm labor 0:50:59 Closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Jeannie Economos. Interview conducted by Jared Muha in Apopka, Florida, on December 10, 2014. Type Sound Source Economos, Jeannie. Interviewed by Jared Muha, December 10, 2014. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank"> QuickTime</a>. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/53" target="_blank">Apopka Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 54-minute and 55-second oral history: Economos, Jeannie. Interviewed by Jared Muha. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Farmworker Association of Florida, Apopka, Florida Hawthorne Village, Apopka, Florida Lake Apopka, Florida Creator Economos, Jeannie Muha, Jared Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Contributor Cravero, Geoffrey Date Created 2014-12-10 Date Copyrighted 2014-12-10 Format audio/mp3 application/pdf Extent 50.2 MB Medium 54-minute and 55-second audio recording 24-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/ Government Teacher Economics Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jeannie Economos and Jared Muha, and transcribed by Geoffrey Cravero. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank"> RICHES</a> Accrual Method Donation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank"> RICHES MI</a> External Reference Palm, Matthew P. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-last-harvest-crealde-school-20140819-story.html" target="_blank">Crealde School's 'Last Harvest' exhibit in Winter Garden</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, August 20, 2014. Accessed June 13, 2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-last-harvest-crealde-school-20140819-story.html. Ailworth, Erin. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2007-01-18/news/MHAWTHORNE18_1_lonnie-jackson-hawthorne-south-apopka" target="_blank">Displaced from Hawthorne Village, families struggle to weave new lives</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, January 18, 2007. Accessed June 13, 2016. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2007-01-18/news/MHAWTHORNE18_1_lonnie-jackson-hawthorne-south-apopka. Wilson, Becky. "<a href="http://www.gainesvilleiguana.org/2015/articles/linda-lee-a-voice-for-lake-apopka-farmworkers/" target="_blank">Linda Lee: A Voice for Lake Apopka Farmworkers</a>." The Gainesville Iguana, October 15, 2015. Accessed June 13, 2016. Slongwhite, Dale Finley, and Jeannie Economos. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/857802909" target="_blank">Fed Up: The High Costs of Cheap Food</a>. 2014. Comas, Martin E. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-apopka-farmworkers-lupus-20150918-story.html" target="_blank">Sick Apopka farmworkers hope for major study of their illnesses</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, September 19, 2015. Accessed May 25 ,2016. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-apopka-farmworkers-lupus-20150918-story.html. Giagnoni, Silvia. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/715188868" target="_blank">Fields of Resistance The Struggle of Florida's Farmworkers for Justice</a>. Chicago, Ill: Haymarket Books, 2011. Rothenberg, Daniel. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38475492" target="_blank">With These Hands: The Hidden World of Migrant Farmworkers Today</a>. New York: Harcourt Brace & Co, 1998. McCauley, Linda A., Michael R. Lasarev, Gregory Higgins, Joan Rothlein, Juan Muniz, Caren Ebbert, and Jackie Phillips. "<a href="http://resolver.flvc.org/ucf?sid=google&auinit=LA&aulast=McCauley&atitle=Work+characteristics+and+pesticide+exposures+among+migrant+agricultural+families:+a+community-based+research+approach.&id=pmid:11401767" target="_blank">Work Characteristics and Pesticide Exposures among Migrant Agricultural Families: A Community-Based Research Approach</a>." Environmental Health Perspectives, Vol. 109, No. 5. (May, 2001): 533-538. Das, Rupali, Andrea Steege, Sherry Baron, John Beckman, and Robert Harrison. "<a href="http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/107735201800339272" target="_blank">Pesticide-related Illness among Migrant Farm Workers in the United States</a>." International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health, Vol. 7, Issue 4 (2001): 303-312. Transcript Muha This is Jared Muha on December 10th, 2014, with Jeannie Economos at the Farmworker Association of Florida. So, Jeannie, uh, do you wanna start by, uh, telling us who you are and a little bit about yourself? Economos Sure, my name is Jeannie Economos. I, um, am the Pesticide Safety and Environmental Health Project Coordinator here at the Farmworker Association of Florida. I’ve been in this position since 2007. Um, I came back to work at the Farmworker Association in 2006, um, and in 2006, I was working on immigration issues, um, but prior to that, from, um, 1996 until 2001, I worked at the farmworker association as the Lake Apopka Project Coordinator, um, and prior to that, um, I’ve spent the last—since—well, the last 30 years, um, working for non-profit organizations on everything from the Audubon Society and Save the Manatee Club, um, to the farmworker association and the botanical gardens, but my passion is environmental justice and social justice, and I—and I worked on Indian rights issues, uh, for a while also, as a volunteer. Muha Great, thank you. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Um, I—I heard you mention the Lake Apopka w—w—can you say that one more time? The Lake Apopka Project? Economos Well, um, it—we didn’t have an official name, but, um, when I began in 1996—um, that was before the farms closed on Lake Apopka—when the State of Florida passed the, uh, Lake Apopka Restoration Act of 1996, which was, um, the, um—the legislation that gave the [St. Johns River] Water Management District the authority to buy out the farms on the north shore of Lake Apopka. So the farmworker association began work on trying to address the issues of the farmworkers related to this proposed buyout. Initially, we actually tried to stop the State [of Florida] from—before the legislation was passed, we tried to stop the state from buying the farmland, and tried to, um, get a coalition of groups together to, uh, support sustainable agriculture instead. That didn’t work. Um, the state bought out the farms, um, and so, from ‘96 to ‘98, we tried to get programs for the farmworkers, um, and then after the farms closed, we were doing, um, disaster control—trying to get housing and food for people—before we learned about the serious contamination and health issues. Um, so—um, so—yeah—so I was the Lake Apopka Project Coordinator from ’96 to 2001. Muha Great, thank you. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Okay, um, so I’d like to start by just asking about, um, farmworker association much more broadly. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Um, so can you just tell us broadly what the Farmworker Association of Florida is and what it does? Economos Well, it would take a long time to tell you everything that we do. Um, we were founded in 1983, uh, incorporated in 1986, expanded statewide in 1992. Um, we do a lot of things. I guess our two main focuses over the past, um, 30 years, um, have been immigrants’ rights and, um, pesticide health and safety. Um, we do lots of other things, too, which would take a long time to say, including things like wage theft, disaster, um, education and response, um, civic participation, um, housing. We did housing for a while, but, basically, I think the best way to describe our organization is that we are very grassroots. Um, our Board of Directors are[sic] almost all current or former farmworkers. The head of the organization is a former farmworker. We have leadership committees of farmworkers in each of the areas where we have an office, and we’re—we really feel that we are run by the grassroots. We are not top-down, we’re bottom-up. Um, even though we work on, uh, individual, local, state, regional, national, and international issues, we’re really driven by our base, which is—are—which are the farmworkers in each of the areas, and I think that’s the beauty of our organization. That’s why—one of the things that I feel so strongly about is that we are a really, um, you know—we—we—we offer services to farmworkers, like we help people fill out food stamp applications and unemployment. So we do help people on an individual level, but we’re not a service organization. Our—our—our goals are to change policy and empower farmworkers to become agents of social change. Muha Oh[?]. Economos Mmhmm. Muha And—and you mentioned earlier that your role has been in pesticide health and safety. Economos Yes, yes. Muha Mmhmm. Economos Um, and so that entails a lot… Muha [clears throat]. Economos Of different things. Um, it—we—we have a training for farmworkers to train them about pesticide health and safety, um, and we train a minimum of 500 farmworkers every year in Florida, um, and that—we have five offices in the state, so that’s about a hundred workers in each area. Um, we also train healthcare providers on how to identify, treat, diagnose, and report pesticide-related illnesses. We file complaints when there are violations of regulations in the workplace, um, and we work on pesticide policy issues. We try and[sic] change pesticide policy at the state level and at the national level, and—and we work internationally too with Pesticide Action Network. Um, so I could go on, but that’s [laughs]—gives you a little overview of it. Muha Great. Well, thank you. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Um, so—and—and I know this—this might be a challenging one to—to do briefly, but do it in whatever length you’d like. Um, so can you speak to, um, you know, environmental harms that farmworkers are—are commonly exposed, uh, to and—and—and why that’s important? Economos Um, a lot of farmworker organizations—well, first of all, there aren’t many farmworker organizations, but the ones that do exist, um, are often times focused on wages, um, because farmworkers are low on the totem pole. They get very poor wages, um, and some of them are focused on other kinds [sic]—kinds of abuse, like labor camps and things like that, um, but, uh, um, pesticides are really harmful to farmworkers’ health, and scientific studies over the past seven to eight years have increasingly showed[sic] that pesticide exposure can harm the second generation and the third generation of farmworkers, and they can also have—in the past, um, farmworker organizations were focused on acute effects of pesticide exposure, like, um, you know, farmworkers in the field vomiting or—or passing out or whatever from pesticides, but we know more and more now about long term effects of pesticide exposure, um, and farmworkers standards. Um, they’re, um—they are, um, under the [Agricultural] Worker Protection Standard of the Environmental Protection Agency, and those standards are lower—less than the OSHA regulations that protect workers from chemicals[sic] exposures in other kinds of industries. So, um, it’s vitally important, because these people are making money for the owners of the industry. Whether they’re a small grower or a large grower, industry could not operate without the workers, and yet, the workers are risking their health and their lives and that of their families by being exposed to pesticides on a regular basis, and we should all care because we’re all human, but we should also all care because it affects our food and our environment, and what happens to the least of us happens to the—to all of us. So it’s, uh, critically important, um, and I could go on, but I won’t [laughs]. are the invisible ones. They are, um, treated like workhorses, not like people, um, andthey are not afforded the same protections—health and safety protections—that other workers are protected under OSHA1 standards. Um, they’re, um—they are, um,under the [Agricultural]Worker Protection Standard of the Environmental Protection Agency,and those standards are lower—less than the OSHA regulations that protect workers from chemicals[sic]exposures in other kinds of industries. So, um, it’s vitally important,because these people are making money for the owners of the industry. Whether they’re a small grower or a large grower, industry could not operate without the workers,and yet, the workers are risking their health and their lives and that of their families by being exposed to pesticides on a regular basis, and we should all care because we’re all human, but we should also all care because it affects our food and our environment, and what happens to the least of us happens to the—to all of us. So it’s, uh, critically important, um, and I could go on, but I won’t [laughs]. Muha Good, thank you. Um, so why do you think there’s a need for an organization like Farmworkers Association of Florida? Economos Um, well,let me just give you a little example. We do pesticide trainings, as I mentioned earlier, and we have five offices in the state, so we tend to work with farmworkers in the counties in the areas where we have offices. A few years ago,we ended—started going to different areas, like Wimauma and Wahneta and Winter Haven, where there’s farmworker populations—migrants—and there is no farmworker organization there as a support for them, and when we have gone and done pesticide trainings in those areas,we’ve seen a huge difference. The level of education of the—of—or—or knowledge—not education—the level of knowledge of the workers of their rights and about pesticide exposure is much less, and we have gone and done trainings in areas where there was no farmworker organization presence,and the people have begged us—after an hour and a half or two hour training, they’ve begged us not to leave. They’ve begged us to come back, and, to me, that says it all, because even if we don’t touch farmworkers directly—for example, here in the Apopka area—even if we don’t touch them directly, what we are doing here, by osmosis, gets out into the broader community, and it raises people’s level of understanding of their rights, it raises their understanding of the risks in their workplace, um, and people know that they can come here for things like help with wage theft and things like that.So, um, not only do I feel that, you know—I see what—what we do here every day, but also, having gone to these other areas and seen the difference in the level of, um, information that the people have. It’s really been a stark contrast. So that to me justis—says it all. Muha Well, thank you. Economos Mmhmm. Muha So you mentioned that, um, Farmworkers Association was founded in—in 1983. Uh, can you speak to—and I know you’ve—you’ve been involved since the ‘90s—but can you speak to how you think it’s changed since its founding? Economos Yeah, um… Muha [clears throat]. Economos I mean, we have expanded, um, statewide. I think one of the biggest things—I mean, we—lots of things have changed, but I think one of the biggest things that, um, I’ve seen change is our, um, deeper connection to, understanding of, and action on a global level—an international level. So, um, while we continue to be very grassroots, we work in coalition with groups like Pesticide Action Network International, La Via Campesina, uh, Domestic Fair Trade Association, and other organizations like that, um, that, um, make us, um, connect what we’re doing at the local level to much bigger, broader global, um, trends, policies, um, actions, um, multinational corporations and how they’re affecting things at the local level. So I think we’re much more involved in that, and I think that helps, uh, eh, reinforce what we’re doing locally, but also, um, moves us to a different level where we can, eh, rather than just trying to get a—a particular nursery or farm to pay their workers better or to, you know, um, stop using or—or exposing their workers, we’re looking at it on a much more global level. That it’s systemic—not just systemic in the United States, but systemic globally, because of transnational corporations and how they’re affecting governments, and, you know, international trade agreements. So I think that that’s really significant and that helps inform the work that we do locally by having that big, broad national perspective and working in coalitions, uh, nationally and internationally. Muha Okay, great. Thank you. Um, so having spoken now for, uh, about 13 and half minutes, um, I haven’t yet, uh, heard about, um, farmworkers’ role in—in black community—and bl—black farmworkers. So I’d like to ask about that if you don’t mind. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Um, so what has been your role, um, in the lives of former black farmworkers in Apopka? Economos Well, um, we, eh—we used to have, um, an African-American, um, organizer with the farmworker association, um, and for two reasons—one, we no longer had funding for the Lake Apopka Project, um, and also, the African-American organizer that we had became very sick. We don’t have an African-American organizer in our organization right now, um, but because I’ve been working with the farmworker community on Lake Apopka since 1996, even though I was gone for a few years and came back, um, you know, I—and since Lake Apopka is my passion, I have become the African-American farmworker organizer for the farmworker association, and, um, th—uh, the people know me and we have a long-term relationship and the African Americans in this community, um, know that—they trust me I hope—I think. I like to believe that they do, um, and, um—and they know that, um, I really care about them on an individual level, but I care about the cause too. Maybe I should start by saying that, um, when the farms on Lake Apopka were operating, um, there were, um, mostly Haitian, Hispanic, and African-American farmworkers. I know I might be jumping ahead on your questions, but, um—but, um—and, uh—when—by the time the farms closed in 1998, the majority of farmworkers on Lake Apopka, at that time, were Hispanic. Uh, the Haitians that worked on Lake Apopka were mostly migrants that would come up from South Florida, harvest corn, and then travel the seasons. Um, there were some Haitians that were more permanent, or seasonal residents here, but a lot of the Haitians that worked on the farms were migrant. Um, a lot of the Hispanics were seasonal, so they were here eight, nine, ten months out of the year. Some of them were here permanently all year-round, because Lake Apopka had such a long growing season, okay? Um, the African- American community was older, uh, in general, um, on Lake Apopka and smaller, um, in—in—in—in terms of numbers, um, and because a lot of them were older, a lot of them worked in the packing houses. Um, even though some of them still worked out in the fields, a lot of the older women worked in the packing houses, so they could sit during the day and help grade—you know, grade the—the product as it came through. Um, so when the farms closed on Lake Apopka, a lot of the Hispanics were absorbed—were younger, uh, in general. This is, you know, a generalization. Um, a lot of them were either able to move to other areas to work or they were absorbed in other kinds of industries, like the nursery industry or construction or laying sod, but the African Americans, because they were older, um, because they didn’t know anything else but farm work, um, they pretty much, um, got left behind, and so, um, when I came back, um, after being gone for several years, um, I wanted to make sure that the Lake Apopka story didn’t get lost, and so I began working with mostly the African-American farmworker community to keep the Lake Apopka story alive. Most of the Hispanics, um, again, were not, um, um, as interested in continuing the Lake Apop—there were a few. Um, uh, a couple of them moved away, um, but the African Americans really feel like their story needs to be told, because today, if you talk to people about farmworkers, you know—there’s other farmworker organization that seem to be all focused on Hispanic farmworkers. If you talked—if you talk to people about farmworkers, they think, Oh, Hispanics, Mexicans, okay? Well the African Americans feel upset about that, okay? Because they say, “Wait a minute. We’re farmworkers. We were farmworkers here before the Hispanics were here,” and this is not to be, you know—to—to, uh—to pit—to pit the races against each other by any means. It’s just that that that history needs to be captured and not lost, and I know that the farm—the African-American farmworkers that I work with feel very strongly about that, um. Because I feel like I work for them, I feel very strongly about that, um, and because what I have read, not that I’m the most well-read person in the world, but, um, I haven’t seen anything in Florida history. I’ve seen like—like, um, peripheral references in other books, like you’ll read books about, you know, uh, discrimination against blacks in Florida… Muha [clears throat]. Economos And there might be a reference to, um, oh, um, “It—it happened in an orange grove,” or, oh, um, “and he was an orange picker,” but I have not seen anything that has really talked about, specifically, the role of African-American farmworkers in Florida history. I haven’t seen it anywhere. I don’t know. Did I answer your question? I kind of… Muha Absolutely. Economos Okay. Muha Not a problem. Well, so you said a few things that I—I want to pick up on later, if you don’t mind, um—or expand on later, um, and I’ll—I’ll ask about that, um, but I—I would like to, um—to—to return to—to your role, um, within black farmworker communities, um, and then I’ll—I’ll—I’ll come back to—to s—a few things you mentioned, uh, about memorialization of—of, um, black farm labor in Florida and, um, some perspectives and what have you. Um, so, um, you mentioned that you’re currently the person that acts as like, um, a liaison between the farmworker association and—and former black farmworkers. Um, so I’d like to know—I mean, it—is—is that—well, so—so is your work then centered around, um, their lives as it pertains to employment or their role in the community? Or, like, what—what do—what do you do, um, with them? Economos Well first of all, I wouldn’t use the word “liaison.” Muha Oh. Economos Because, um, we actually—it can—we have, um, what we call “leadership committees,” and so, um, because our—our office in Apopka has a Hispanic, a Haitian… Muha [clears throat]. Economos And a[sic] African-American leadership committee, s o I call the—the African Americans that I work with mostly, um, are key people—are leadership committee. So they’re actually part of the organization. Muha Okay. Economos Um, so, um, um, yeah, so I—I would put it in—in those kinds of terms. Um, uh—initially, um—well, we have tried everything over the years, in terms of the Lake Apopka farmworkers, um, and initially, it was not just African Americans, it was all the farmworkers. I—you know, we—we talked about trying to get class-action lawsuits to address the health issues of the farmworkers. That didn’t work. Um, we tried to get, um, funding, uh, from the National Institutes of Health to do, um, a[sic] scientific studies where we can actually test the blood of farmworkers, and that wasn’t just His—uh, African-American, but all Lake Apopka farmworkers—to look at, uh, levels of pesticides in their body to see if, you know—to—to identify that as a problem. That didn’t work. We’ve tried—we did a health survey, um, actually Geraldine [Matthew], an African-American farmworker who was a staff member here, did a survey in 2005 of about 150 mostly African-American farmworkers, ‘cause they were still here. That didn’t get any traction. So basically, what my position in—in—has evolved into, I guess, since everything else has not gotten anywhere, is to keep the legacy alive… Economos And to tell their stories. Muha [inaudible]. Economos Because I feel like that’s what they want, that’s what I want to see happen, that’s what they deserve. Muha Mmhmm. Economos So that’s kind of what my role has evolved into. Um, the book, Fed Up [: The High Costs of Cheap Food], that was published as way to keep those stories alive. Talking to you [laughs] is a way to do that too. Um, the quilts is[sic] a way to try and do that. Um, you know, um, hopefully, we’re gonna have an iTunes film, um, so those are some things that we’ve done, but kind of an answer to your question, um— most of the people that I work with are too old and too sick. They’re—I shouldn’t say “too old,” because Geraldine [Matthew] and Linda [Lee] are my age, you know, and I’m still working, but most of the people I work with are on disability [benefits]. Muha Mmhmm. Economos They’re not even—some of them are over 65, but a lot of them aren’t over 65, but they’re sick. So they—so it’s not in terms of trying to get anybody any jobs because they can’t work, and that says a lot to me, um, but, um—so it’s not in terms of getting jobs. um, it’s mostly to keep the legacy alive, but at the same time, you know, they’ve become friends. I’m close to ‘em. It’s personal, you know? So I do things like take food to Geraldine when she’s on dialysis and she doesn’t have anything to eat and she has nobody to help her, or I’ll—Um, so it’s a, you know—it’s a commitment, and it’s become personal. I care about ‘em. Linda has a problem with her—this county trying to—code enforcement trying to cite her house because of her roof. So we’re trying to help her, uh, get the right paperwork to get her roof fixed. So, um, I mean,it ends up, um, you know, for our community, and that’s what it’s all about is really feeling like a community, and that’s how you build trust, you know? Um, they call me on the weekends to see how I’m doing. I call them, you know? Its, uh—um, we took a field trip to St.Augustine because they had a—an exhibit on 500 years of African-American history in the United States. We were gonna take a field trip this weekend to the Harry T. Moore museum.2 Um, so it’s a, you know—it’s a commitment, and it’s become personal. I care about ‘em. Muha Thank you. Appreciate that. Economos Mmhmm. Muha [clears throat] So—and, again, I—I do—a lot of what you said I do want to ask about later. Um, but, um, just to—so I’m clear, um, most farmworkers, uh, or former farmworkers from your observation, if I understand correctly, um, you know, after—after the shutdown of Lake Apopka, what did they do?I mean,from your observation, it seems like you’re saying most of them didn’t return to—to any jobs or… Economos Well, so that’s a long story too.Right after the farms closed it’s a—I’ll try to do this short—um, th—there was a thing called the Jobs and Education Partnership and they set up this outreach thing for—I think it lasted a year and a half maybe—to try and do retraining of farmworkers, to try and offer them classes, to try and get them other jobs. Um, it was real mess. It was for all f—not just for African Americans. I mean, like—like part of it was English classes for Hispanics. Um, it was pretty unsuccessful. Some farmworkers, like Linda Lee’s sister,Margie, got a job at a nursery. This was before the [Great] Recession happened in the, you know—a few years ago.3 This was at the boom of building and construction and nurseries and stuff, So some of them did get other jobs for a period of time, but most of the African Americans—again, most of the Hispanics and Haitians were absorbed, so, um, they eventually settled out into something—most of them—a lot of them. Muha Mmhmm. Economos Most of the African Americans got left behind.Geraldine always talks about how, um, “I don’t know what happened, but after the farms closed, people started getting[phone rings]sick and started dying.” [phone rings] Economos And I know from I own experience, sometimes, you know, when you’re, you know… [phone rings] Economos If you’re not active, you know, you—you start to get depressed and you, you know—and people had this—they had to go to work every day and they probably didn’t have time to even think about their healthcare, but a—after the farms closed, a lot of people did start getting sick. A lot of them were sick beforehand, um, like Linda Lee had, you know, a kidney transplant beforehand. Some of them were absorbed for a little while in other jobs, but most of them were older and not in the best of health and didn’t last very long. Muha Hm. Economos Um, but some of them were already on disability. Muha Mmhmm. Economos Um, so, um, I don’t know of many that got jobs in farm work. Um, Magaline[sp] was smart. She got out early, before the farms closed, and got a job as a janitor in a school, and worked there up until about a year ago, um, but the ones that stayed in farm work, most of them, um, didn’t know anything else, um, didn’t really get plugged into anything else in terms of a job and/or, you know, were sick and really couldn’t—couldn’t get out there in the world, but had serious health problems. So, yeah. Muha Thank you. Um, so, okay—so what I’d like to ask, um—right. Okay, so I’d like to ask, um—and this might be a—a difficult question to—to answer, but, I mean, so, since the—the shutdown of m—most Lake Apopka farms, w—what has been the most dramatic change that you’ve noticed in the lives of—of the former farmworkers who are black? Economos Um, I think—well, uh, I think that there’s been a little bit of—there’s been a little bit of dissolution of community. So, um—for example, um, the African-American community in this area are [sic] not what you would traditionally think of, because they are very settled here. Um, there might be two or three or four generations. A lot of them might have come here—their parents or grandparents might have come here in the ’30s and ‘40s. Well, probably I should say ‘40s, because that’s when the farms started on Lake Apopka, okay? And so, w—they—whereas the Hispanics came later, like in the ‘60s and then again a wave in the ‘80s, um, the African Americans were here much longer. Um, there was some public housing, subsidized housing, USDA4 housing for farmworkers. It was called Hawthorne Village. When the farms closed on Lake Apopka—you could only live there if you had so much of your income from farm work. That included nurseries, okay? When the farms closed on Lake Apopka, the African Americans that lived in Hawthorne Village, like Louisee [sp] and other people, uh, Angela Tanner, they were no longer working in farms, so they couldn’t, um, record that… Muha [clears throat]. Economos “I get this much money from farm work.” They couldn’t live there anymore. They had to go find someplace else to live. Some of them had to go find rental housing, and it wasn’t subsidized, so it was too much money for ‘em. Um, some of them had to go live with family members. Then they finally closed down Hawthorne Village completely. They tore it down, ‘cause [sic] it was in bad shape. Those African-American f—farm—former farmworkers ended up having to go to Lake City, so, some—so, it—it did affect some of the—a little bit—there’s still quite a bit of community cohesion, okay? ‘Cause [sic] some people like Linda and Geraldine and Betty and Irma are, you know—own their own homes, okay? But it did separate some families because of that. So some families had to leave the area, um, because of the housing issues. Some of the younger ones—because there was no more work here—did have to leave and find work other places. So it did affect the community, in that sense, and then, it also affected the community because I think when people weren’t working, again, you have issues of, you know, people being depressed because they can’t work, financial problems because they’re not working. Um, some people were sick, but they just kept working, and then they had to try to get on disability, and if they were under 60, they had to wait two or three years. Oh, it was terrible. Some of them had to wait—uh, you know, in the meantime, while you’re waiting to get on disability, even though you’re on, you know—you have all kinds of health problems. Um, how do you survive in the meantime, you know? You’re not old enough to get Social Security, you know, you’re not well enough to work, so you’re in this limbo. How—so it did cause a lot of financial problems for people. Like I said, when the farms first closed on Lake Apopka, we weren’t thinking about health then. We were just thinking about trying to get people, you know, housing and jobs and food and furniture and a place, you know, uh—just real immediate needs. Muha Yeah. Economos Um, so, yeah, but long term, I think, uh, the health issue is the biggest—biggest thing. Muha Okay, thank you. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Appreciate that. Economos Mmhmm. Muha Um, okay, and so—so—and—okay. So next one I’d like to ask—I mean, you mentioned a couple times a difference between, um [phone rings] Muha How the shutdown affected… [phone rings] Muha Hispanic farmworkers and how it affected black farmworkers in—in Florida. So I’d like to ask [phone rings] Muha A little bit about, I guess, a shift that occurred, um, on farms in—in Florida and—and specifically in Apopka, um, and—and what you mentioned, you said that there were, uh, waves of—of Hispanic immigrants in the ‘60s and ‘80s, as… Economos Mmhmm. Muha As you perceived it. Economos Right. Mmhmm, mmhmm. Muha Um, so the thing[?] that I’d like to ask—so why do you—why do you think that—that that shift took place, eh, eh, from—in our opinion. Um, was it growers’ preferencing [sic] Hispanic farmworkers? What do you think… Economos Well, I think… Muha The reason… Economos It was several things. Um, one is I think the Civil Rights Act—the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964 was one influence, because, um, after that, um, blacks had more opportunities to, um, get out of farm work and get into other kinds of jobs, um, and the younger generation of, uh, African Americans—this next generation—wasn’t, um, subject to the same Jim Crow—not that it didn’t still happen, especially in Apopka, um—but, legally, it wasn’t supposed to happen. So the second generation, um—whereas for example—I’m jumping around—but, like, um, Linda’s parents—Linda’s grandparents were farmworkers, Linda’s parents were farmworkers, and she was a farmworker. Well, her kids didn’t have to be farmworkers. They were born after the Civil Rights Act was passed, okay? Same thing with Geraldine, same thing with Betty, you know? Their next generation, um, didn’t have to—they had more options than, um, the previous generation. So the Civil Rights Act was one thing. The end of the Bracero Program was another thing, okay? Um, so when the Bracero Program ended, um—well, that was mostly in—that was here too, but the end of the Bracero Program, um—which brought, um, Hispanics into the United States—okay, it ended, but then the growers had an opportunity to go and get, uh, thr—without the Bracero Program to go and get cheaper labor from, you know, Mexico and bring them here to work, okay? And then, I think conditions in Mexico, um—people, you know—workers coming from Mexico, I think, um, you know, the—well, in the ‘90s, NAFTA5 made a big difference too. There was an influx of, um, farmworkers from Mexico after NAFTA, but in the ‘60s and the ‘80s, it was conditions in Mexico, it was the end of the Bracero Program, but I think it was just, you know, demographic changes. A lot of African-American farmworkers were getting older and moving out, and Linda will tell you a story about how, you know, it was mostly African-American farmworkers. She remembers one day going out to the orange groves. They would get up every morning, go to the orange groves, pick oranges, and then take the bus—you know, the crew bus back home. She said one day, they went out to the grove and there was a—as she says, a Mexican f—family there that had slept there all night long, okay? Well, the African-American farmworkers were upset, because the Hispanics that were there—and this is, you know—this is how the industry ends up causing racial divide. The Hispanics that were there all night long could pick earlier in the morning. They could stay and pick later at night, and when you’re being paid by the piece, you know, you’re not getting paid by the hour, they were able to make more money, okay? So, um, you know, people from Mexico saw econom—economic opportunity here and they started coming here, and they kind of, you know—the—the—it—there became that clash of—and the Hispanics would work cheaper, and—and sometimes they would work faster, and part of that was because a lot—some of the African Americans were beginning to know what their rights were, um, and some of them would stand up for their rights. Whereas, the—a lot of time the Hispanics didn’t know they even had any rights, and they would put up with more abuse, and that’s—again, that’s kind of a generalization, you know? Um, but, um, G— Geral—Geraldine would s—says sometimes, you know, “Oh, I felt sorry for the Hispanics, because they would come here—s—some stuff that we wouldn’t put up with, you know, they would come and they would—they would take it.” So I think there’s [sic] lots of different factors, but I think those are some of them. Muha Mmhmm. Economos Yeah. Muha And then, from your observation, uh, what do you think the perception on that question of—of black farmworkers is? What do you think—do you think they would say the same? Economos Well that’s—like I said, a lot of that’s stuff that I’ve heard. In terms of the Civil Rights Act, that’s my perception and th—things I’ve read too, um, but in terms of some of the other things, I mean, I—I hear that directly from them, you know? That they—they have said that. That, you know—that, um, the Hispanic workers would work longer hours, they would put up with more abuse, um, sometimes they would work faster. Again, if you have—especially after the 1960s, um, if you have an aging African-American population, they might not harvest as fast. Whereas, the Hispanics coming in are younger, um, you know, and they would work faster. If you see the—and now it’s not even Mexicans as much as it is Gua—uh, you know, Guatemalans and Salvadorans. the training that we here—had here last night for the farmworker women, they were all young and they were from Guatemala, um, and they were all—I would say—20s, um, early 30s. They were young and they were all farmworkers. So, you know, I think that had a—is a factor too. Muha [clears throat]. Muha Great, um, and—and then, um—following that question, um, in your experiences with former farmworkers in Apopka today, I mean, what—what stands out, uh, to you about their perspec—perspectives on farm labor? Um, given that most of them are now former farmworkers. Most of their children aren’t farmworkers. Um, what do you notice about their perspectives? Economos Well, I think they’re all very proud of it. Um, there are some, like Mary Tinsley, who will say, uh, “Oh, I—I used to pick oranges when I was a teenager and I never, ever wanted to do it again, so I decided to go to college and never do it again,” you know, um, but, um, her mom is proud of the work she did, you know? Betty Woods, who died last year, um, said that she loved it. She loved being a farmworker. Geraldine—she’ll say, “We fed the world.” Um, I love Geraldine. She’s so powerful, um, and they’re—they’re proud of what they did, um, and they should be. They deserve to be proud of what they did, um, and, um—and I think the ones that I—I work with, of course, probably have a higher consciousness about all of these issues, because they have been working on this, and, you know, um… [phone rings] Economos And have been connected with the farmworker association. We, you know, do do consciousness raising stuff, but even… [phone rings] Economos When we go down to Indiantown, and the farmworkers there—the African Americans there—I think they’re proud of what they’ve done… [phone rings] Economos And their contribution. Um, some of them love it. Geraldine’s really proud that she was the fastest corn packer [laughs], you know, and it was kind of competitive. Um, Linda’s proud that her father was a crew leader and he was a good crew leader… Muha Mmhmm. Economos And he treated his people well and—and, um, they have all kinds of stories. You could listen to them for hours and days and months and never get all the stories that they have, and it’s a very rich, uh, history, which is why I think it’s so important to capture that, because it’s just very, very rich, both in terms of good and bad. Um, you know, it’s—we—we talk about the discrimination against the blacks in Florida, the country, um, but… [phone rings] Economos What was it like to be black and a farmworker? Kind of the—the… [phone rings] Economos And I hate to put it like this, but how society looks at it is like the… [phone rings] Economos Lowest rung on the totem pole in terms of, you know, the type of job that you do. Um… [phone rings] Economos So I think that that’s a really super rich history, and, um… [phone rings] Economos They have stories talking about being on the mule train and them laughing and… [phone rings] Economos And singing slave songs to get them through the day, um, and it’s just very, very, uh, rich, cultural history, um, and they talk about their interactions with the Hispanics and the Haitians, um, and some of it’s good and some of it’s bad, you know? Um, and—and, uh, um, so, yeah—I forgot what the original question was [laughs]. Muha No, you did great. Well, the original question was about farm—farmworker perspecti—or black farmworker perspectives… Economos Oh, yeah. Muha Today and what stands out to you. Economos Yeah, yeah. Muha So if there’s anything else you wanted to add… Economos Um, well, I—I, a—again, what stands out to me, because of the people I work with is that they feel very strongly that they want to be remembered. Yeah. Muha Well, I wanted to ask you about that because, uh, throughout this—this interview, a few times you’ve mentioned the importance of, um—of history and—and being remembered, um, so—so, yeah, I mean, and—and you’ve mentioned, uh, the quilt, which—which was Linda’s project… Economos Hm, yeah. Muha Um… Economos Well, every—it—Linda did the most of it… Muha Okay. Economos It was everybo—I don’t want to—yeah. Muha Okay. Economos Yeah, it was everybody’s pro—it was a project of the farmworker association. Linda was the one that really did most of the quilt squares, but everybody was involved… Muha Great. Economos So… Muha Well, if I understand, she was l—like the—I—I don’t—I… Economos [laughs]. Muha Perhaps the leader of it? Or… Economos She and Sara [Downs]—Sara. Muha Okay. Economos Together were—yeah. If it weren’t for—they—they were the two that really drove it forward. So, yeah. Muha Okay. Economos Yeah. Muha Well, so… Economos Mmhmm. Muha But I—I wanted to ask you, I mean, you know, it seems i—if I—if I understand correct[sic] I, uh—I mean, has—do you think the history of—of black farm labor has been remembered in Apopka? Economos No, I don’t. I don’t. I—no. If you go to the, uh, uh, Museum of the Apopkans over here, um, there’s almost nothing in there about African Americans at all, much less African-American farmworkers. They finally did—actually, I need to—they finally did invite us to bring the quilts there during, uh, Black History Month. That was nice of ‘em, um, finally, um, but, um, uh, there’s almost nothing about bla—the, um—if you go to Winter Garden—because I don’t want it to sound like it’s just Apopka, ‘cause[sic] it’s the whole—Lake Apopka is really big, so there’s farmworkers f—that worked on Lake Apopka that were from Zellwood and Eustis and Mount Dora and Astatula and, um, Winter Garden. Winter Garden—there’s a big African-American community there. Linda’s sister lived in Winter Garden. Um, I used to go ride my bike in Winter Garden, and they have a big mural on the side of one of the main buildings in Winter Garden of citrus, and it’s a white guy picking oranges, um, and I’m like, No. [laughs] It probably wasn’t a white guy picking oranges, and, um, you know, and you go to Winter Garden and there’s almost nothing about, um—I think it’s a little bit better over the last couple of years. Um, Winter Garden just had “The Last Harvest[: A History and Tribute to the Life and Work of the Farmworkers on Lake Apopka”] exhibit there and I didn’t even get to go see it, um, but, uh, it’s virtually—no. It’s—it‘s—it’s hidden. It’s deliberate. If you go to, um, Oakland Nature Preserve, um, that was started by Friends of Lake Apopka, there is nothing there about farmworkers at all. If you go to Magnolia Park and the boat ramp and you see the sign there about the history of Lake Apopka, there is nothing there about farmworkers or African Americans in the community. So, no, I think it’s not there and I think it’s deliberate. Yeah. Muha And—and you’ve noticed that you—you—you think it’s important to the farmworkers in Apopka and—and those who worked on Lake Apopka that they be remembered. Economos Absolutely, and—and they have talked about—I mean, the quilts are great, and the book is great, and we’re—I think everybody’s happy to have both of those things, um, have happened, but, um, I think—some of them have told me that they would like to see a memorial in the city of—that—that—sanctioned by—because the book and the quilt and “The Last Harvest”—that was the farmworker association doing that. Nobody outside—I mean, Dale [Finley Slongwhite] is outside the fa—you know, but nobody outside the farmworker association. What are they doing? It’s all been driven by, you know, the farmworker association. Who else out there has made a concerted effort… Muha Mmhmm. Economos To do anything to remember the farmworker association? You are, but, I mean, who else is really doing anything to recognize farmworkers at all here—much less African-American farmworkers in this community? So no, I don’t think it’s remembered, um, and I think it’s deliberate. Muha Well, thank you, um, and then, as—as my last question, I—I wanted to ask you, um, if you had any thoughts on, uh, the future of farm labor in—in Florida, and perhaps, uh, more broadly in the United States or the South. Economos That’s a really good question, because, um—that’s a really big question, because, um, you know, there’s continuing competition from globalization, um, the recession has affected the… Muha [clears throat]. Economos Nursery industry in Florida, um, imports of tomatoes from Mexico has a—affected the tomato industry in Florida, the drought is affecting the nut industry in California, as well as other kinds of crops. Um, so lots of different factors are affecting, um, agriculture in the United States. Um, subsidies for commodity crops, like, um, corn, soy, and wheat are affecting—they, eh—it just blows my mind that they call fruits and vegetables “specialty crops.” That just is mind-boggling to me, you know? tomatoes are a specialty crop. Corn is not a specialty crop. Gen—genetically-modified corn is not a specialty crop, but, you know, your healthy carrots are. Um, so specialty crops are at risk, um, because of the huge agribusiness farms. Um, so I think that there is a real danger of, um—or threat to agriculture in the United States. The global, you know—forces of globalization around the world, um—I do take hope from the food movement, um, where a lot of, um, people are, um, wanting healthy, organic, local, sustainable food, even though it might not be fair trade food, um, for workers, but a lot of, um, small, independent farms are starting up at a very small scale, but poor people can’t afford to buy that. I can’t afford [laughs] to buy that, um, produce. Um, so you’re still going to have your big grocery store chains, you’re still going to have, um, you know, your, um, need for cheap food. So I do think it’s a really big concern where—and I think farmers know that. The writing is on the wall for some of them. Um, tomatoes, you know, the—tomatoes are a big issue in Florida. Um, the tomato industry in Florida wants to continue growing tomatoes the way they’re growing them, which is picking them early and—and, um, then treating them with methyl bromide to ripen them, whereas Mexico is growing vine-ripe tomatoes and that they’re shipping here, and people want those more. So, um, if agriculture, um, diminishes—and we’ve already seen that on a small scale in Apopka. The recession, um, put a lot of farmworkers out of work in Florida. Um, nurseries went under. Miguel estimated about 50 percent of the nurseries. I don’t know if that’s accurate or not, but quite a few nurseries, um, closed, which put a lot of workers out of work. Immigration policies have affected agriculture. A lot of workers, um, are afraid to travel, um, the seasons like they used to, because of immigration policies in other states, um, like Georgia and Alabama that might be really horrible. Um, immigration policies have affected migration into the United States, which has affected how many people come here to be farmworkers. So, um, there’s lots of different forces at play here, and, uh, I’m not real[sic] good at forecasting the future, but I think we have some real issues that—that are gonna come up, um, and I think we’re gonna end up seeing a lot more imported food and a loss—lot less work for farmworkers. So… Muha Good, okay. Well, um, as far as my questions, that’s all. Um, was there anything you wanted to add or say before I stop the recording? Economos Um, I just want to say that I think—I think there’s a real place and a real need in Florida history to document the role of African-American farmworkers. I mean, I—I kind of said that already several times, but, um, I want to say it kind of in a different way now, because I think it’s important to put African-American farmworkers—not just to remember that they were here and they had lives, but to really look at that in terms of the economic development of Florida. That—you know, we hear about, um, [Henry] Flagler and the railroad and other people in, you know, uh, uh, major, uh—who I can’t think of right now—major people in Florida history who, you know, created the development of Florida, but none of that could happen, okay? A lot of that was based on—a lot of the economy in Florida was driven by agriculture, okay? And the railroad and all these other things—where part of it was to move agricultural products, part of it was to bring people down here to start orange groves and vegetable fields, and none of that could have happened without African-American farmworkers, and I think it’s really crucial not only to remember the lives of the farmworkers here, but to put them in some kind of really profound historical context, um, in the—in Florida’s history, you know? Even, um, Patrick [D.] Smith, who wrote that book, Angel City [: A Novel], okay? The main characters in that book where white farmworkers that came down from Tennessee or Kentucky or something like that, um, and the peripheral characters in the book were African American, okay? I—it’s really vitally important to see how—there’s even more about, um, the Indians—the native Indians in Florida and what happened to them then there are[sic] about African Americans historically in Florida as part of the development and what caused the economy to grow in the state, and I also think—one more thing I think is crucially important is to—to demonstrate or to understand that African-American farmworkers, in Florida and other parts of the South, have a direct line to slavery, and I think that that thread needs to be pulled through, um, because the conditions that farmworkers experienced and continue to experience, but, again, it was—e—e—even before Lake Apopka, you go back into the ‘20s and ‘30s and ‘40s before Lake Apopka, you know, that—it was still the legacy of slavery. So I think somehow that thread needs to be woven through all of this, um, because I don’t think you can look at—at—at it in a—in a vacuum without bringing—bringing that in, and how the conditions on the farms were related to, um—how con—plantation conditions and slavery in the United States. So… Muha Okay. Well, thank you so much. Um, this… Economos Thank you. Muha Has been—oh, absolutely [laughs]. This has been Jared Muha with Jeannie Economos of the Farmworker Association [of Florida] on December 10th, 2014. agribusiness farms agricultural labor Agricultural Worker Protection Standard agriculture Angel City: A Novel Angela Tanner Apopka Astatula Audubon Society AWPS Betty Woods Bracero Program bromomethane carrots Central Americans citrus Civil Rights Act of 1964 commodity crops corn Dale Finley Slongwhite DI disability benefits disability income insurance disability insurance disaster education disaster responses Domestic Fair Trade Association economic development educational programs environmental advocacy environmental justice Environmental Protection Agency EPA Eustis fair trade Farmworker Association of Florida farmworkers farmworkers' rights Fed Up: The High Costs of Cheap Food FOLA food movements Friends of Lake Apopka Geraldine Matthew Geraldine Shannon globalization Great Recession Guatemalans Haitians Harry and Harriette Moore Memorial Park Harry T. & Harriette V. Moore Cultural Complex Hawthorne Village Henry Flagler Henry Morrison Flagler Hispanic Americans Hispanics immigrants immigrants’ rights immigration income protection Indiantown Jared Muha Jobs and Education Partnership La Via Campesina Lake Apopka Lake Apopka Farmworker Memorial Quilts Project Lake Apopka Project Lake Apopka Restoration Act of 1996 Lake City Latin Americans Latinas Latinos Linda Lee Magnolia Park Mary Tinsley methyl bromide Mexican Americans Mexicans Mexico migrant farms migrant farmworkers migrant labor migrant laborers migrant workers Mount Dora Museum of the Apopkans NAFTA National Institutes Of Health NIH non-profit North American Free Trade Agreement not-for[profit nurseries nursery nuts Oakland Nature Preserve OASDI Occupational Safety and Health Administration Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance oranges OSHA Patrick D. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Jesse Cutler Collection Alternative Title Cutler Collection Language eng Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Description Collection of digital images, documents, and oral histories depicting the life and work of Jesse Cutler. Cutler has spent an illustrious career, beginning at age 12, as a musician, composer, actor, producer, and entrepreneur. Starting in New York City in the 1960s and then in Los Angeles from the early ‘70s through the late ‘90s, Jesse performed with his bands and in the original cast of Godspell on Broadway, made records that saw Billboard’s Top 100, formed his own companies and appeared on TV and radio and in national print. Subject Music--Florida Winter Park (Fla.) Godspell (Motion picture) Type Collection Coverage Winter Park, Florida Los Angeles, California New York, New York Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Personal Collection of Jesse Cutler External Reference "<a href="http://cityofwinterpark.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">City of Winter Park</a>." City of Winter Park, Florida. http://cityofwinterpark.org/. "<a href="http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WINTER PARK HISTORY</a>." Winter Park History Museum, Winter Park Historical Society. http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/. Cutler, Jesse. "<a href="https://search.worldcat.org/title/268957223" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Starlust : The Price of Fame</a>. Garden City, N.Y.: Morgan James Publishing. 2008. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/140" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES. Moving Image A series of visual representations that, when shown in succession, impart an impression of motion. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/CX5rMcYJi-E?si=v5_qpDbQ5S33YklC" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Oral History of Jesse Cutler</a> Title Oral Memoirs of Jesse Cutler (Part One) Alternative Title Oral History, Jesse Cutler (Part One) Subject Music--Florida Winter Park (Fla.) Godspell (Motion picture) Description Part One of an oral history of Jesse Cutler conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida on February 8, 2024. Cutler has spent an illustrious career, beginning at age 12, as a musician, composer, actor, producer, and entrepreneur. Starting in New York City in the 1960s and then in Los Angeles from the early seventies through the late nineties, Jesse performed with his bands and in the original cast of Godspell on Broadway, made records that saw Billboard’s Top 100, formed his own companies and appeared on TV and radio and in national print. Some of the topics covered include growing up and attending schools in New York, becoming involved in the Broadway musical Godspell, finding a manager, starting a career in the music industry and signing with his first record label, enjoying his success, purchasing a penthouse and a dog, taking his first trip to Beverly Hills, California, meeting Stevie Wonder and starting a romantic relationship with Jolie Jones, moving to Beverly Hills with Jolie Jones and meeting her sisters, starting a romantic relationship with Deana Martin, meeting Tupac Shakur, encountering interesting women and his advice to young people, performing at the Whisky a Go Go and having a dangerous encounter with Pamela Courson, reflecting on missed opportunities, signing with United Artists Records, his love for R&B music, astrology and numerology, and meeting Michael Jackson and Marvin Gaye. Abstract Oral history interview of Jesse Cutler. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero on February 8, 2024. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Growing up and attending schools in New York 0:03:17 Becoming involved in the Broadway musical Godspell 0:05:49 Finding a manager, starting a career in the music industry and signing with his first record label 0:08:02 Enjoying his success, purchasing a penthouse and a dog 0:11:12 Taking his first trip to Beverly Hills, California, meeting Stevie Wonder and starting a romantic relationship with Jolie Jones 0:14:435 Moving to Beverly Hills with Jolie Jones and meeting her sisters 0:17:47 Starting a romantic relationship with Deana Martin 0:20:52 Meeting Tupac Shakur 0:21:45 Encountering interesting women and his advice to young people 0:23:02 Performing at the Whisky a Go Go and having a dangerous encounter with Pamela Courson 0:28:31 Reflecting on missed opportunities 0:31:09 Signing with United Artists Records, his love for R&B music, astrology and numerology, and meeting Michael Jackson and Marvin Gaye Creator Cutler, Jesse Cravero, Geoffrey Source Cutler, Jesse. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, February 8, 2024. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2024-02-08 Date Copyrighted 2024-02-08 Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/227" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Jesse Cutler Collection</a>, <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/140" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>.; <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 4.73 GB 295 KB Medium 34-minutes and 57-seconds video recording 17-page digital transcript Language eng Coverage Highland School Preparatory, Jamaica, New York New York, New York Beverly Hills, California Whisky a Go Go, Los Angeles, California Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jesse Cutler and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Cutler, Jesse. "<a href="https://search.worldcat.org/title/268957223" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Starlust : The Price of Fame</a>. Garden City, N.Y.: Morgan James Publishing. 2008. "<a href="http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WINTER PARK HISTORY</a>." Winter Park History Museum, Winter Park Historical Society. http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/. <a href="http://cityofwinterpark.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">City of Winter Park</a>." City of Winter Park, Florida. http://cityofwinterpark.org/. Transcript Cravero Okay [smacks lips]. This is Geoffrey Cravero. And with me is, uh, Mr. Jesse Cutler . We are conducting an interview in Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida in Orlando on Thursday, February 8th, 2024. Mr. Cutler, thank you so much for speaking with us today. Would you please begin by stating your name and telling us a little bit about where you’re from and what life was like for you growing up? Cutler Well, my name is Jesse Cutler. Uh, I was born in Brooklyn, New York, ah, a long time ago. 1951. And, as a child, I, uh, had an older sister. And, uh, grew up. Had a little puppy. I went to a Catholic school, uh, fifth—when I was five and six, until my dad built a house on Long Island. Malverne, Long Island. And, uh, I went to Valley Stream North High School . And then I attended, uh, uh, the Highland School Preparatory in Jamaica Estates, which was predominantly Jewish. And being, Italian, well, it kind of went together. We—we all had a good time. I—there was only three Italian boys. We were branded “mafia children” because who could afford $10,000 a year to go to high school? But it was good move thanks to my—my father, uh, who wanted me to get a really good education. There were only a hundred kids in the whole school out of three grades. 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. One hundred kids. That’s very small. So some of my classes, I would have only maybe five or six kids in a class. Sometimes it was two. My French class. But, uh, that’s my early—early childhood. And after I graduated from high school, uh, I was lucky to get a, uh—a scholarship to Stanford University. And, uh, one day, I was up in the Catskills and my dad was walking with me. I had a band playing, uh, for kids during—when the parents—they were staying at the Kutsher’s Country Club , which had something to do with Ashton Kutcher . I think it might be his grandfather. Uh, we would play for the kids when the—when the parents were dining. And we would—we would entertain them. Uh, so my dad comes up to visit, and as we’re walking down, I—I go, “Dad. Do you realize I got a—I got a scholarship to uh, an Ivy Leage school? It’s like Harvard. I go, “It’s a scholarship. You don’t have to pay anything.” He goes, “Well, you know I’d really like you to stay in New York. You know? California’s far. It’s 3,000 miles away.” He goes, “I’ll tell you what. If you stick around New York, go to any college in New York. I’ll buy you any car you want.” Well, you don’t say that to a 17-year-old kid just getting ready to graduate high school. I go, “Any car? Uh, a British racing green Jaguar convertible with wire wheels and a wooden steering wheel?” “Yeah. Sure.” So, my father, in a way, changed my life. Because, had I gone the other way to California to go to Stanford, I would have ended up in law school. And I would have been an entertainment lawyer. That’s what I wanted to be. But since I stuck around New York, my good friend Rick Shutter—drummer who was in my early band at 13, 14 years old called the Young Executives, calls me up and said, “Somebody’s coming over the house. He wrote a play. Bring your guitar over.” I go, “I’m not interested. I’m going to end up going to NYU Law School .” “Uh, just bring your guitar over.” So, I go over there. I walk in. There’s a guy named Stephen sitting in a chair and getting ready to—I didn’t know who he was. He’s getting ready to go over to the piano. Ricky’s piano. And all of a sudden, he plays 15 songs. “Now that’s pretty good.” I go, “What do you call that?” He goes, “Godspell.” I go, “You mean like gospel?” “No. Godspell.” I go, “That’s pretty good. But that’s guitar music. That’s not piano music.” So, I—I have instant recall. I was blessed with that. So, I could play back some of what he played. He goes, “Man, I want you in the show.” I told my dad about it. And he goes, “Those shows close in two weeks.” Godspell not only got a Grammy for the original cast album, became a motion picture for Columbia Pictures , but it ran not for two weeks. It ran for 12 years on Broadway. And I did close to 800 shows. That’s 800—that’s eight shows a week every week for I—close to a year and a half. About 18 months. So, I was fortunate in a way to be part of that original cast. I’m the lead guitarist and singer on “On the Willows”, which is all over the world. But that’s really not where I was—originally wanted to go. And so, my life shifter from becoming an entertainment lawyer to becoming an entertainer. And, uh, that’s the beginning of that story. So, yeah. That’s a big jump from 5 years old with my little beagle, walking down the block to Catholic school. Then, walking out of the, uh, Cherry Lane Theatre in Greenwich Village. And then, uh, the bigger theater uptown, uh, in Godspell. I mean that’s night and day. Uh, so after that, uh, I walked around town looking for a manager. Somebody—the president of MGM , he was the head of the publishing company, said to me, “Listen. You—you already played guitar on the original cast album. You already played on the Columbia Pictures soundtrack. There’s nothing more for you here. You need a manager.” So, I went around town [knocks table]. I’ll never forget walking around town with my guitar. My Martin guitar. Knocking on doors until I finally connected with somebody. And they brought me to Fabergé , who launched their new record label called Brut Records . And I was the first artist. Michael Franks was the second, and a—a—a comedian —what’s his name [taps table]? Um, famous comedian, who I toured with. I opened the show with him. I’m trying to remember. When you get old, your memory starts to go a little bit. Uh, but I’ll get back to that one. And, uh, I recorded three singles for Brut Records. And they were good. And the people backing me was Aretha Franklin’s band with, uh, Bernard Purdie w—he was known as “Pretty” Purdie, Cornell Dupree , uh, uh, Chuck Rainey on bass. This is Aretha Franklin’s band on all her hit records. On a lot of other hits, too. And the reality is, the best compliment I ever got as a musician is when “Pretty” Purdie, the drummer, said to me, “You know, for a white boy, you got perfect time.” And I take that compliment knowing who that is on “Rock Steady” and all those big s—oh, the Cadillac. And all those Aretha songs. That he gave me that compliment that I had perfect time. I mean that—even—that was 50 years ago, and I still remember it like it was yesterday. Let’s see. But who was that guy? Mike—Michael Franks. I’m trying to think of the comedian’s name. Anyway, I have 101 stories I could tell of what happened after Fabergé during the three masters. Uh, I—they gave me money when I signed the contract. And all of a sudden, I got myself my own penthouse on East 51st Street. 300 East 51st Street. And my best friend, Mark, and I hung out at the beach. He got married, uh, he had from[sic] Long Island. From Long Beach. And, uh, all of a sudden, I’m in Manhattan. I had money in the bank. And I go to any restaurant I want to go. Take anybody out. Uh, I bought a dog. And, uh, I bought a Siberian Husky. And the day my dad came to visit, we’re inside the—the dog store. And, uh, the woman goes, “Well, this is a—a championship—from a championship bloodline. The sire and dam for this dog are champions. So, you can breed this dog. So, I’m looking at this gorgeous dog—puppy with blue eyes and eyeliner. I love Siberian Huskies. Do you know that Siberian Huskies are the only dogs that have a certain enzyme in their mouth that they don’t have bad breath? I’m sure most people don’t know that. So, if you’re an Eskimo in an igloo with 12 huskies, if they had—didn’t have that you would die of asphyxiation for sure. So, they’re the only dogs. Uh, so, on the way home, I’m walking the dog and my father goes, “How much you pay for that dog?” “$600.” “$600?” I guess that was a lot back then in 1973. I go, “Look. It’s my money. It’s my apartment. It’s my dog.” Because when I had my first little dog, I only had him for about a month. I came home one day from St. Brigid’s Catholic School in uh, uh—in—in—and, uh, what was it? Ridgewood, Brooklyn. I came home. I go, “Where’s Tiny?” And my—my mother goes, “I gave him to Uncle John. But he’s got 20 acres that he could run around all over.” I go, “You gave my dog away? I don’t like you very much. That’s it. Our relationship—” I was six years old. Like that’s it. So, when I bought the dog myself years later, and I’m walking home—oh, my father kept saying, “$600. Wait ‘til I tell your mother.” “Go tell her what you want. It’s my money, my place, my dog. And I’m going to keep that—” I kept that dog for 15 years. And I loved that dog. He was—his name was Zeus. And when I walked through Central Park, New York, uh, on the weekends, different girls would come over. I used to look at him. I go, “I don’t know. Is it you or me? It’s probably you. They all want to pet you.” Like he goes, “Well, maybe it’s you, too. Ha, ha ha.” Anyway, uh, so life in New York was great. And so, I took my first trip with my friend, Mark, to Beverly Hills, and that was a lot of fun. Back in ’73. And, uh, I went and got a—I ride horses when I can. And I—I had a custom pair of riding boots made. They were $800. I didn’t care. Unfortunately, on the way back, Mark and I were, uh, in a 747, up the spiral staircase. And up there, there used to be a bar and a piano. And who’s up there? Stevie Wonder. We walk in there and I introduce myself. We’re hanging out with Stevie Wonder. And I go, “Oh, my God. I forgot my boots.” And my friend, Mark, says, “Ah. You got plenty of money. Get another pair.” “No. Those were custom made boots, man.” Two weeks later, I get a phone call. “Hi. Is this Jesse Cutler?” I go, “Yeah.” “Oh. This is Jolie . I have your boots.” “You have my boots? Where are you?” “I’m on 63rd and—and—and 3rd Avenue. 61st and 3rd Avenue in Penthouse B.” “Penthouse B? I’ll be right over.” So, I could call Fabergé up and get a limousine driver, Danny, to pick me up. I go over there. I go upstairs. The door opens up and this girl is holding my boots. Like this. Gorgeous mulatto chick. And, uh, she doesn’t really tell me who she is. And I go, “Listen. I have a limo downstairs. Let me take you to lunch.” So, where do I take her? I took her to Joe Namath’s place, Bachelors III, because he was on the contract of Fabergé, and I wanted to show off a little bit. Because when I walked in, he went, “Hey, Jesse. How you doing?” ‘Cause I met him up in the offices of Fabergé, and, uh, I thought she’d be impressed. But I still didn’t know who she was. I realized that was no big deal until she goes, “Can we go to Bloomingdale’s after we have lunch?” I go, “Sure.” We go to Bloomingdale’s. And a Black cash register—the cash lady—the cashier in—in Bloomingdale’s in the lingerie department sees her and says, “Oh, my God. It’s you. I just saw you on the cover of Jet and Ebony magazine. And I’m wondering, Who is this chick? I don’t—I—I—I still don’t know who she is. I go, “Let’s go to my place. I have a—I have my own penthouse.” “Really?” I go. So, we get to my place. And, uh, she stayed with me. And a couple day later, I get a phone call. Like this. “Hi. Is, uh, Jolie there?” I go, “Who’s this?” He goes, “This is Q.” I go, “Who? Q-tip?” And he laughed. I go—it—because those were landlines then, so it’s scratchy. I go, “It’s, uh, very scratchy. Where are you?” He goes, “Oh, I’m in Japan.” I go, “What are you doing in Japan?” I don’t know who it is. “Oh, I’m on tour.” And all of a sudden, if you saw my face, I went like this t—to Jolie. I went, “Are you Quincy Jones’s daughter?” She goes, “Oh, daddy.” She takes the phone out of my hand. And, uh, I went into the bathroom. I went—my afro then. Picked it all out. I come out. Lit a cigarette. I’m like, “Oh, so you’re Quincy Jones’s daughter [laughs]. Sauve. You know? She ended up staying with me the whole summer. And she kept saying, “I’m gonna go back to L.A., and you should come. And you—you belong in Beverly Hills. You—not New York.” And that was a big deal, looking back in time. Had I stayed in New York, Fabergé with Brut Records would have pushed me all over the place, as far as my career. But I guess I was impressed. And I was seduced to go to Beverly Hills with Quincy Jones’s daughter. And to do—and to make sure I would—came out, she took my Siberian Husky with her as collateral. And there I was with Mark, Jolie Jones, and me and my dog, Zeus, in the cage in the limo, looking at me going, “What the fu¬¬—where are we going?” You know? She walked him on—she took him onto the plane. And I stayed in New York for a couple more months. And, uh, the end of the summer, I packed up and I ended up being picked up at the airport in a white Bentley. Uh, and she was making cocktails in the back. And—and interestingly enough, she took me to a private club on the way from the airport before—before we got to the house. And as I walked up the stairs, who did I meet? I met the guy who was the star of the cowboy, uh—he was a—he was one of the TV stars. He looked at me and he goes, “You look like an interesting character. Let me buy you a drink.” And I’m trying to remember his name. But, uh, I go, “My mother’s in love with you. I—every time you’re on TV.” He goes, “That’s my man.” Like he said, “For real?” I go, “Yeah. You and a couple other guys.” But anyway. Uh, so we finish there, and we end up back in the limo. Back—back in the Bentley. And we go up—all the way up to Benedict Canyon. And we go down. And all of a sudden, we get to these gates. And the gates open up. Go into the driveway. Like a few acres. A beautiful house. We walked in there. And, um, next morning, I woke up and there were two little girls running around named Rashida and Kidada Jones , who today, you may know, you know, uh, uh, Rashi—uh, Rashida starred in The Office [taps table]. And she’s in a lot of commercials now [taps table]. She’s a beautiful girl [taps table]. Her mother was Peggy Lipton. Which I never knew that Peggy Lipton from The Mod Squad was part of the Lipton family. From the tea family. I d—I didn’t know. I could figure out why that happened [laughs]. Quincy. It turns out, like in my life, when you get a little fame, it doesn't matter how much money you have. People—women are attracted to your talent because it’s unique. And it’s—and it’s been addressed and promoted. And, uh, they have tons of millions of dollars. They don’t care. You know? So, I, uh, met Dean Mar—I was introduced to Dean Martin’s daughter at a party for the guy that created Botox from Switzerland. And, uh, my friend came over. He goes, “I’m going to change your life.” And he walks this girl over. I don’t know who she is. She goes, “This is Deana .” “Hi.” And, uh, later that night, I get a phone call. “Hi.” “Oh, this is Deana Martin.” I go, “Well, that’s a great name. That sounds like Dean Martin .” She goes, “Well, Dean Martin’s my father.” I almost dropped the phone. I go, “You the girl I met at the party on Sunset Boulevard?” She goes, “Yeah. Listen. I’d love to take you out to dinner with me. Uh, I’m having dinner with Michael Caine and Steve, uh, uh—the comedian. Steve, uh. Cravero Martin? Cutler Steve Martin. Cravero [clears throat]. Cutler I—I’d never thought of it. Deana Martin. Steve Martin. Could there be a relation? Or who knows? I doubt it. But, uh—and there I was. I had a ch—said, “Let me check my calendar.” It’s like 2 o’clock in the morning. I, uh—I went picked her up. Went up to Bel Aire. This restaurant [knocks table]. And there I am. Sitting next to Steve Martin and looking—and Deana. And looking at Michael Caine and his wife, Shakira , at the time. And, uh, like I’m back to normal. I felt back to normal. But, you know? Dean Martin’s daughter knew everybody. I mean is—you couldn’t get bigger than Dean Martin. You know? Frank Sinatra . Dean [knocks table] Martin. Sammy [knocks table] Davis . Joey [knocks table] Bishop . The Rat Pack. I mean you couldn’t get bigger than that. You could get as big, but not bigger. There isn’t any bigger at the time. Anyway. There was really, uh—Well, Michael Jackson was starting to pop. Uh, I remember one day, since I’m telling stories, uh, when I signed with Fabergé, I had a—a new magazi—Cashbox and Record World . And, uh, uh, these magazines were the—the top magazines in the music industry. And I remember opening up Cashbox and there’s my picture on the top with Richard Barry, the vice-president and the owner’s son, who is in charge of Brut Records—a picture of me and him. And right below me is a picture of Prince signing his first, uh, contract with Warner Brothers. He was 18 and I was 21. And of all the people I met, and I met pretty much everybody—I was more R&B. I always learned to the R&B music. So, when I met Marvin Gaye and Barry White , I was thrilled. And Berry Gordy . That was a big thrill. I never met Prince. I met Michael Jackson. And, um—oh, so years later, I’m sitting in Quincy Jones’s living room, and I see a guy sitting in one of the chairs with a bandana on. He’s bald with a bandana on his head. And I walk over. I go, “Shupat. Shupat Takur—what is it? Tupac Shakur .” I go, “It’s you.” He goes, “I think it’s me.” He goes, “Man.” That is the greatest night. Tupac Shakur. He—he stood up. He was kind of short. He was about this big. And, uh, we did this kind of thing. And he—he was engaged to Kidada Jones. To Quincy’s daughter. And, uh, that’s how she popped up on the, uh—the news reels. Uh, she—uh, she wasn’t really an actress like—like Rashida. But, uh, Jolie Jones married the producer of Simply, uh, Red [hums song]. They were good. They were from Ireland I think. Simply Red. But she married him. I didn’t marry her. So, uh, all these interesting women came around me. Very interesting. Susan Sears from Sears and Roebuck . She picked me up in her baby blue Bentley. A Rolls-Royce actually. They came around. I was young, you know? I didn’t think about marriage until I was more thirtyish. And I—anybody who’s watching this, I highly recommend that you do get a good education. And then, they—today’s world, you should get your master’s degree. And even go, if you can, to a PhD. That’s a great accomplishment. Anybody would—anybody anywhere will give you respect. Um, and not to get married until—for women, like 28 plus. And men should be 30. 30 plus. Just saying, um, from experience, you’d be much happier and more grounded at that point. Um, so, I went on after that. And living in L.A. I say goodbye to Fabergé. I’m at—living in L.A. I’m—I’m doing concerts. I started out at the Whisky a Go Go . I opened for Blondie . Deborah Harry . And I was there three nights. And who comes backstage? Uh, my manager brings this redhead—very pretty—backstage. And, uh, she comes over. She goes, “I think you’re great.” I was up there for two hours, and I blew that audience away. I had a great band. And my band was great. Not only was my band great but stars out of the audience—Lou—Lou—the—the—the—the horn player for Chicago came onstage. Played with us. Claudia Lennear , who sang with the Rolling Stones , came onstage. And place was rocking. So, now I’m backstage, and this little redhead with blue eyes is looking at me, telling me, “I think you’re fantastic.” “Oh. Thanks. Uh, appreciate it.” Anyway, we’re backstage, and there’s—they have like a bar back there. And everybody’s doing things. All the groupies come in. Well, anyway, I get home. It’s about 3:30 in the morning. And I get a pho—another phone call. And, uh, it’s, uh, “Hello.” “Listen. This is me. I’m the girl that told you you were great. The redhead. Are you—you wanna come over my house?” I go, “Where are you?” “I’m in Hancock Park .” That’s in L.A. That’s a nice area in L.A. “Okay. What’s your address [laughs]?” So, I went over there. And this is real. Um, Pamela Courson was her name. I didn’t know who she was at the time. So, I knock on the door. She opens up. I’m all dressed ‘cause I, you know—it was from the night I was there. I was wearing a real nice outfit. I think they had put makeup on me. Whatever. You know [rubs hands together]? And it was, uh—this was the first night we were at the Whisky a Go Go. And all I kept thinking about, going to her house, is I can’t wait to see the reviews in the¬¬¬¬—in Hollywood Reporter and Variety. Like the reviews. So, I’m sitting there on the couch next to her. And all of a sudden, I hear [knocks]. And she says, “Oh, no. It’s Ronnie.” It’s 4 o’clock in the morning. The door come—both—the door comes open, and a guy walks in with a gun. And he’s holding it. And he goes, “What you doing with my bitch?” And he hit me like this. And goes like this. Click. Uh, with a .38 caliber. So, I’m looking at bullets. Remember, all I kept thinking about is my reviews. I got to stay alive. And then, he put the gun down. I mean it was just a little something there. But he dragged her away. And the first thing I did was I—I figured out how to open the gun. Dumped all the bullets out in the cushion. I put the gun back. Well, you can’t kill me now. I’m going to fight my way out. When you’re from Brooklyn, you’re a—you’re tough. You’re just tough. Anyway, uh, uh, he—he comes out. He came in like a lion, and he left like a lamb, going like this. “Man. I’m sorry, man. I didn’t mean to. I didn’t mean to do nothing. I mean, I didn’t know you with the Q.” With the Q. I had to think about that. And then, he—“I’m just gonna take my little gun and go.” And he left. The next thing you know, sh—this girl—I—I still don’t know who she is. This girl’s[sic] comes crawling in, and she says, “And if you weren’t here—you saved my life. I’m[sic] should take you to—to, uh—to France and hold a press conference in Paris and tell the world you’re going to be the biggest rock star.” I’m looking at her. She goes, “I have millions of dollars.” I go, “Well, that’s good.” I go, “Who are you [laughs]?” She’s, “I’m Jim Morrison’s widow. From the Doors .” Yeah. That was kind of freaky. That’s[sic] really happened. And, uh, uh, since I was there and that happened, I said, “Listen. I have the pink caddy outside.” I had this really cool Cadillac. White top. Pink Body. It was—it was a sedan DeVille. But it was like an older car. Uh, but in good shape. And I said, “Why don’t you follow me with your car to my house?” So, we get to my house in, uh, Laurel Canyon . I park. I said, “Park in the driveway.” We get up. I knock on the door. And Angel, my drummer—Steven Angel opens the door. And I go, “Shh. Don’t say anything. Jim Morrison’s widow’s behind me. Don’t—but don’t say nothing [laughs].” “Yeah. Okay [laughs].” We go in. It’s 4:30 in the morning now. And now, uh, she stayed with me for a couple days [taps table]. And—but in my mind—oh. So, the next day, yeah, we went to the s—newsstand to get a copy of my, uh—my, uh, report from Variety. And I got a very good review. I was very thrilled about that. Um, with Jim Morrison’s wife—was pushing me to go to—to take me to Paris to hold a press conference. She said, “I could hold a press conference. Everybody will come. And I’ll say this is the next big star.” That could have happened. I could have married Dean Martin’s daughter. That could have happened. I could have stayed with Fabergé. That could have—that would have happened. So, a lot of lucky, good things happened to me. And a lot of things I turned down because I wanted to do it on my own. And so, after, uh, uh, Quincy’s daughter and I split up, uh, I got my own apartment. I got my dog back. And I put a new band together. And I played all over town. Up and down the West Coast. And, um, I then, uh, actually returned to New York and, uh, stayed there for—for about six months. Went down to Florida to visit my parents. And every day, I would go along the boardwalk in Hollywood Beach and play the piano. So, I wrote a whole bunch of new songs. And when I went back to L.A., I had my bag full of new songs. And on Valentine’s Day, which is coming up in 2024 now shortly, I had my briefcase, two pieces of luggage, and my two guitars. Pulling up to my friend, Stanley B. Herman, the actor’s, condominium. And a girl and two guys are walking along. And she says, “Do you need any help?” I go, “Yeah. Oh, that’d be really nice.” We end—we end up in the elevator with my two—all my bags and guitars. We get upstairs. And this girl named Randi Pitch, who, uh—who I should have married, we connected. We stayed together. We got our own apartment. We got our own place. And she was the luckiest person, for me, that I ever met. And I’m still in touch with her. And it’s 45 years later. The reality is, I ended up getting signed to United Artists Records , being produced by Academy Award winner Joe Renzetti . And there I am in the studio with, uh, the best triple scale musicians and my dream—because I always loved R&B music. I love the Stylistics , the Delfonics , Jerry Butler , I—Marvin Gaye. Because with the R&B music, it had great beats. But it had sweeping strings and horns. And that’s what I liked. I don’t like gothic music. I don’t like [impersonates gothic music]. See? That makes no sense to me. Some of the bands are great. And the guitar playing is great. But that screaming—my—my friend who owns the uh, uh, Studio Live USA —is a very good engineer. Genius, actually. When I call him, I go, “Who’s there today?” He goes, “I have the angry people.” I knew right away what he meant. Because I can hear in the background [impersonates gothic music]. I don’t get it. You know? And I’ve figured out this. You could tell a lot about a person by the kind of music that they select. That they want to take into their brain. You could tell a lot about a personality. Not—with that. I’m into astrology and I’m into numerology. If you know about all this, you can figure people out in two seconds by simply asking what—what is the number of the day you were born from 1 to 31. All those numbers mean something. Because in numerology, it’s one to nine. No zeros. That’s it. However, there’s the next level. And here’s a cute—here’s a cute story. So, I’m sitting in Quincy’s house. And who’s sitting next to me? Michael Jackson [taps table]. And Quincy, which is know as Q, is sitting right over there. And I go, “Michael, you bleaching?” And Quin—Quincy goes like this. Did I really ask Michael Jackson that? I go, “Q. I was born August 28th. Michael, tell Quincy when you were born.” He was born August 29th. The day after me. But the difference is 28 is a ten. Two plus eight is ten. Take away the zeros. I’m one. I’m the hermit. The loner. Michael was 29. That’s 11. That’s the master number of the universe. But I was right next—I’m always next to the greatness. And I call it the “Cutler Edge”. So, if you ev—ever want to check me out, go to thecutleredge.com. And you’ll go to jessecutler.com. Anyway, Michael was very humble and lowkey and fantastic. And, in my life, I was blessed to meet some of the greatest entertainment people ever. Gene Kelly , uh, Bill Cosby , Michael Jackson. Uh, when I met Marvin Gaye, I was like a girl. I was thrilled. I was in the R&B room at the auditorium in L.A. during the Grammy’s and Berry Gordy’s mistress, uh, said, “Who you want to meet in the R&B room?” I go, “Anybody?” She goes, “Yeah. Who?” I go, “Uh, Marvin Gaye.” She goes, “Come on over.” So, we walk in there, and I see Smokey Robinson and Lionel Richie . And I see Diana Ross . They’re all sitting there having cocktails. And—and there I am, looking at Marvin Gaye, who was quite tall actually. And I go, “Marvin…” [Interview cuts off due to camera issues.] Beverly Hills Broadway Brut Records Deana Martin Geoffrey Cravero Godspell guitar House of Faberge James Douglas Morrison Jesse Cutler Jim Morrison Jolie Jones Levine Los Angeles Louis Milo Gibaldi Marvin Pentz Gaye Jr. Michael Jospeh Jackson music music industry musician New York numerology On the Willows Pamela Susan Courson Quincy Delight Jones Jr. R&B music record labels recording industry Rick Shutter Stephen Lawrence Schwartz Stevie Wonder The Doors United Artists Records Whisky a Go Go Winter Park Young Executives https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/1ca827ca8e174aaf63a15de8e7bc8474.pdf ef468a34407354438fc3a413f2ab5e7f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Jesse Cutler Collection Alternative Title Cutler Collection Language eng Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Description Collection of digital images, documents, and oral histories depicting the life and work of Jesse Cutler. Cutler has spent an illustrious career, beginning at age 12, as a musician, composer, actor, producer, and entrepreneur. Starting in New York City in the 1960s and then in Los Angeles from the early ‘70s through the late ‘90s, Jesse performed with his bands and in the original cast of Godspell on Broadway, made records that saw Billboard’s Top 100, formed his own companies and appeared on TV and radio and in national print. Subject Music--Florida Winter Park (Fla.) Godspell (Motion picture) Type Collection Coverage Winter Park, Florida Los Angeles, California New York, New York Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Personal Collection of Jesse Cutler External Reference "<a href="http://cityofwinterpark.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">City of Winter Park</a>." City of Winter Park, Florida. http://cityofwinterpark.org/. "<a href="http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WINTER PARK HISTORY</a>." Winter Park History Museum, Winter Park Historical Society. http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/. Cutler, Jesse. "<a href="https://search.worldcat.org/title/268957223" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Starlust : The Price of Fame</a>. Garden City, N.Y.: Morgan James Publishing. 2008. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/140" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES. Moving Image A series of visual representations that, when shown in succession, impart an impression of motion. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Jesse Cutler (Part Two) Alternative Title Oral History, Jesse Cutler (Part Two) Subject Music--Florida Winter Park (Fla.) Godspell (Motion picture) Description Part Two of an oral history of Jesse Cutler conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida on February 23, 2024. Cutler has spent an illustrious career, beginning at age 12, as a musician, composer, actor, producer, and entrepreneur. Starting in New York City in the 1960s and then in Los Angeles from the early seventies through the late nineties, Jesse performed with his bands and in the original cast of Godspell on Broadway, made records that saw Billboard’s Top 100, formed his own companies and appeared on TV and radio and in national print. Some of the topics covered include getting starstruck meeting Marvin Gaye in the R & B Room of the Shrine Auditorium at the Grammy Awards, repackaging his album and forging a relationship with Quincy Jones, putting a band together and touring the West Coast, composing new songs, beginning a new romantic relationship, and developing Disco Diet, meeting Richard Simmons, creating and distributing the Eddie Rabbitt Mask, recording with Alice Cooper’s and Aretha Franklin’s Bands, forming his childhood band, The Young Executives, being managed by his father, performing for celebrities, signing to Mercury Records, charting a single, being on television, experiencing success and the breakup of the group, attending preparatory school in Queens and becoming involved in the Broadway musical Godspell, leaving Godspell, finding a manager and the importance of management and agency to a successful music career, repackaging his music and re-releasing it, moving to Winter Park, recording an album inspired by the city, getting re-married, recording a 12-album set of music inspired by astrology and marketing it through eclectic sound pallets, advice for aspiring entertainers, running a marketing company, writing his autobiography and finding a publisher, his closing remarks and future goals. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Getting starstruck meeting Marvin Gaye in the R&B Room of the Shrine Auditorium at the Grammy Awards 0:03:12 Repackaging his album and forging a relationship with Quincy Jones 0:08:51 Putting a band together and touring the West Coast 0:09:35 Composing new songs, beginning a new romantic relationship, and developing Disco Diet 0:13:57 Meeting Richard Simmons 0:15:14 Creating and distributing the Eddie Rabbitt Mask 0:18:07 Recording with Alice Cooper’s and Aretha Franklin’s Bands 0:20:40 Forming his childhood band, The Young Executives, being managed by his father, performing for celebrities, signing to Mercury Records, charting a single, being on television, experiencing success and the breakup of the group 0:24:11 Attending preparatory school in Queens and becoming involved in the Broadway musical Godspell 0:26:37 Leaving Godspell, finding a manager and the importance of management and agency to a successful music career 0:30:46 Repackaging his music and re-releasing it 0:33:53 Moving to Winter Park, recording an album inspired by the city, getting re-married, recording a 12-album set of music inspired by astrology and marketing it through eclectic sound pallets 0:40:56 Advice for aspiring entertainers 0:41:39 Running a marketing company, writing his autobiography and finding a publisher 0:46:05 Closing remarks and future goals Abstract Oral history interview of Jesse Cutler. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero on February 23, 2024. Type Moving Image Source Cutler, Jesse. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, February 23, 2024. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/227" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Jesse Cutler Collection</a>, <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/140" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES. Coverage The Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles, California New York, New York Highland School Preparatory, Jamaica, New York Winter Park, Florida Creator Cutler, Jesse Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2024-02-23 Date Copyrighted 2024-02-23 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 6.49 GB 345 KB Medium 47-minutes and 20-seconds video recording 20-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jesse Cutler and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> External Reference Cutler, Jesse. "<a href="https://search.worldcat.org/title/268957223" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Starlust : The Price of Fame</a>. Garden City, N.Y.: Morgan James Publishing. 2008. "<a href="http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WINTER PARK HISTORY</a>." Winter Park History Museum, Winter Park Historical Society. http://www.wphistory.org/explore-history/winter-park/. "<a href="http://cityofwinterpark.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">City of Winter Park</a>." City of Winter Park, Florida. http://cityofwinterpark.org/. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/Qj4TGWAxw68?si=fKLUNGakZRycjgm3">Oral History of Jesse Cutler (Part Two)</a> Transcript Cutler Alright. I’m ready. Cravero This is Geoffrey Cravero and I’m conducting the second part of an oral history with Jesse Cutler . The interview’s being conducted in Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida on Friday, February 23rd, 2024. Mr. Cutler, thank you for coming back and speaking with us again today. We left off with a story about meeting one of your heroes, Marvin Gaye . I believe you were just about to introduce yourself to him if you’d like to start off there. Cutler Well, what happened was I was at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. And, uh, a friend of mine, who happened to be, uh, the mistress of Berry Gordy , who had four children for him, seemed to be like the princess of the area. And she goes, “Who do you want to meet in the R&B Room?” And I went to her, “Anybody?” She goes, “Yeah. Anybody.” “I’d love to meet Marvin Gaye.” And she literally walked me over. I had, uh, two or three of my vinyl albums on United Artists under my arm. And she goes, “Marvin, this is Jesse Cutler. He’s a recording artist, too.” And I looked at him. And I went like that. I got starstruck. And that was the only time in my life that I ever—he was a lot taller than I thought, also. And, uh, I go, “Marvin, this is an honor. And I’d like to give you one of my albums.” And I pulled a sleeve out, which on that particular album, I had top musicians. Lee Ritenour , Jay Graydon , people from Steely Dan . I mean great backup singers. And, uh—and it was produced by Joe Renzetti , who won the Oscar for The Buddy Holly Story , which I happen to be in, uh, the last ten minutes. I’m in the band at the end. Uh [taps table], Marvin looked at me and I pulled a sleeve out and it read in the liner notes, “This album is dedicated to Lord God my Creator, to my mother and father, and to Marvin Gaye.” And he looked at me. He goes, “You put me next to God and your parents?” I go, “Well, Marvin, you’re Marvin [laughs].” And he hugged me. And—and—and I could look around the room. I—it was Diana Ross , Lionel Richie , and, uh—and Smokey Robinson . They all kind of giggled because I acted like [imitates himself] —like this. And, uh, my friend, who introduced us—and she goes, “You know you’re blushing, Jesse.” And, uh, you know. And he hugged me. And, uh, he said, “Would you autograph the album?” Marvin Gaye is asking me to autograph my album. I go, “absolutely.” I pull my pen out. “To—to Marvin. My musical hero. Jesse Cutler. Blessings forever.” And he looked at it. And he hugged me again [knocks table]. And I went like [imitates himself] [laughs]. That was a great, great moment. And that was at the Grammy Awards . And they—they had private—they had the Rock and Roll Room. And the R&B Room. And the Country Room. Said[sic] literally, if you were on the inside you could walk into those rooms and meet the biggest stars in every genre. So that was—that was a good—a good feeling. And then—and—and by the way, I repackaged that album, which was released by United Artists . Uh, I, uh, took possession of it. And I renamed it Soul Wood. And these are trees. The—these are guitars like trees growing in the forest. The forest of guitars. And, uh, I wrote on it, “Every guitar has a soul waiting to be mastered.” Because, as you know, anyone who’s listening or watching, when you play an instrument, if you’re really serious about it, you want to master that instrument. You want to become the master. And eventually, what you’d probably like to do if you wanted a career in music is you have to create your own sound. And your own style. And your own melodies. That’s the bottom line. After that, uh—that great experience, I was lucky enough to meet Michael Jackson and Mar—and, uh, Barry White . I lean personally—I don’t know particularly why, but I lean towards R&B. And, uh, because I was still a rock musician, I played, you know, electric guitar. Uh, like my Stratocasters and my different more rock-oriented guitars [knocks table]. I always liked the sound of strings. Violins and cellos coming in to smooth it all out. Even though it had a rock sound on it. So, I left New York when I was 22 years old. I had a contract with Fabergé . They opened up Brut Records . I was the first artist. It was me, Michael Franks and Robert Klein , the comedian. And so, I was seduced by Quincy Jones’s daughter . “You belong in L.A. Not New York.” Well, I—I challenge myself, eh, whether I made the right or wrong decision. But when I got out to California, living in Quincy Jones’s house, not realizing Quincy was like at the top of the top level in the music business—in fact, he was the first Black executive in the music business for Mercury Records . And it was at some time I was in China at a private party with my girlfriend at the time. I’m in Beijing and Quincy’s there. And I walked over and put my arm around him. Gave him a little kiss. I go, “You know, you stole my music.” He goes, “What are you talking about?” I go, “Well, you called up my contractor for my album for UA . And, uh, all the musicians on my album ended up on Michael’s first solo album called…” Uh, uh, what’s it called? The—I can’t think right now. It was his first album. And the reason why was because I came from New York with a more New York rock sound, but an R&B twist to it. And that sound, he transferred on to Michael. Because he wanted Michael leaving the Jackson 5 to cross more into the white audience. So my sound was perfect for him. And I said to him, “You know, Q, you stole my music.” He goes, “Oh. It took you that long to figure it out?” I go, “No. The contractor called me up and told me you called them up and got everybody off my album.” I go, “Well, in a way it’s a big compliment.” But, you know, Off the Wall was the title of the album. Off the Wall, that was Michael Jackson’s first solo album. So, when I met Michael at [taps table]—at some point, it was really amazing. Because my birthday is August 28th, and Michael’s Jack—Michael Jackson’s birthday is August 29th. So, in a way, I was absorbed into him through Quincy Jones. And because I was on that level, I got the privilege of meeting everybody. I mean anybody I wanted to meet. And I always leaned toward the Black artists. When Quincy met me, I had a big afro. And it kind of looked like, uh—it kind of looked like that. It was even bigger than that. And, uh, uh, when Quincy met me, he goes, “What’s your blood?” I go, “What do you mean?” He goes, “What are you?” I go, “Well, I’m actually 100% Sicilian.” He goes, “Sicilian? The Moors invaded Sicely from Africa. You Black.” And he went like this with my hair and hugged me. And his daughter got all happy that he accepted me. And, uh, on the way out of his house, uh—he lived in Bel Air at the time with Peggy Lipton from the Mod Squad . She was the star. And I was thrill—I was a little starstruck meeting her. She was very pretty, quiet, and only four years older than me. So that means I was 22, she was 26, and Quincy was 40 at the time. Nonetheless, on the way out of his house, he goes—he whispers in my ear. He goes, “If you didn’t have the blood, I’d kick your ass out of the house.” I go, “But, Q. All your wives are white.” He goes, “Well, that has nothing to do with it.” [laughs]. So, I’ve had interesting experiences. I didn’t marry his daughter. We were too young. I was 22, she was 21. It was a little too early. And I stayed in LA for about a year. I actually put a great band together. And I ended up starring at the Whisky a Go Go , the Roxy , and all the top clubs. The Ice House. And I—I toured up and down the West Coast. And, uh, I’ll never forget the owner of one was a really, uh, popular big bar area with a stage. He came over to me. He goes, “You guys aren’t a bar band. You’re a—you’re a—you’re a concert act.” I mean that was a compliment. He goes, “You could finish playing here, but you—you belong in a concert arena.” I thought that was odd for a second I—that he said that to me. But that’s what I kept doing. After about a year and a half in LA, I went back to New York and went down to see my family down in Hollywood Beach, Florida. And every day, I went to the piano. I’m really a guitarist, but I can play pretty good. And I wrote maybe 30, 40 new songs. And I was motivated to go back to LA. I go back on Valentine’s Day in 1976, and I stop at a recording studio that I met the owner. And his wife said to me, “Uh, you like busty girls?” I go, “Well, who doesn’t?” She gives me a phone number. I get to my friend’s condo. I’m outside with two guitars, two suitcases, and a briefcase. And a girl comes walking down the block with two guys. And she goes, “Do you need any help?” Remember it’s Valentine’s Day. I go, “That would be nice.” So, she takes my briefcase, the guys bring my luggage, and I take my guitars. And we get in the elevator. I go, “What’s your name?” She goes, “Oh. Randi.” I go, “That’s funny.” I pulled a slip of paper out that the girl from the studio gave me. I go, “What—what’s your phone number? Is this your phone number?” It was a million to one sh—billion to one shot that I get in an elevator a few miles away, and I’m holding the telephone number of the girl that the woman at the other studio told me I should meet. And there she was, standing in an elevator again. That was the best relationship I ever had. Within six, seven months uh, we live—we moved in together. Uh, because of her—she introduced me to somebody. I got my contract with United Artists. And from that point on, I did that album, I launched music, uh—I launched, uh, Disco Diet. I had a concept. And this is where I’ll lead with that. I saw in the late seventies that people were getting more into exercise and working out. And I came up with the idea of, uh, Disco Diet. Because disco was big at that time. The late seventies. It was called Disco Diet: Dance Yourself Slim. And I was—I sat in somebody’s office for five days at the anteroom when you walk in the door. I sat there. I had breakfast, lunch, and dinner right there every day. And the owner, whose name was Cecile Barker , would walk by me with his accountant named Doug Dick. That was his name. With two checkbooks. And he’d be walking back and forth. And then, on a Friday, the fifth day, he looks at me. He goes, “You’re not leaving. Are you?” I go. “I’ll give you ten minutes.” I went into his office. And I said, “Mu—in the eighties, it’s going to be all about exercise. Working out. Walking. You know? Running. Jogging. And I have a great idea.” When I left his office, I walked out with a check for $175,000. And that’s from s—which means that whatever idea you have, you—if you pursue it and believe in it, it will attract and magnetize someone who will tune in with you. And you’ll be fortunate enough to get the financing. So, bottom line, that was one project. And we—I ended up hiring Young & Rubicam in, uh—in, uh—in L.A. Their office in L.A. And we bought full-page ads in People Magazine, T.V. Guide, Diet and Exercise, Slimmer, Playboy, Playgirl. That’s full [taps table] page [taps table] ads on [taps table] every newsstand [taps table] coast to [taps table] coast. And it was very successful. At my post office, when I went in to get it, we had bags full of orders. And we—we grossed millions of dollars. And during that time, a good friend of mine said, “You know, somebody wants to meet you.” I go, “What’s his name?” “Well, he’s—he’s got an exercise studio here. Um, he, uh, helps women in Beverly Hills. He’s got a salad bar.” His name was Richard Simmons. Now, you might have heard of him. But, uh, he loved my Disco Diet, which was a beautiful package. A box that opened up like that. It had a 28-page diet and exercise booklet. It had three giant posters that you would put up on the wall and follow it. And—and, uh, the music. I hired Chaka Khan’s band, Rufus. And they were great. And a—and an arranger named Barry Fasman , who got famous doing Melissa Manchester re—records. She got pretty big. Melissa Manchester. Anyway, [sings] “Don’t cry out loud. Don’t want to be…” That was [knocks the table] her big hit. Anyway, he did a great job. And, uh, Richard Simmons begged me to talk to his manager. So, he picked my brain. And next thing you know, Richard Simmons became the guru. But it was really based on my Disco Diet at the time, and the amount of uh, exposure I had. So, uh, now, remember I’m with the girl that I met in the elevator. We—we’re living together now. I did [taps table] United Artists. I did [tabs table], uh, Disco Diet. And then one day, I meet a woman who made masks. And I called her up. I saw a picture of theses masks. I call her up. And I was lucky enough to call the manager up of, uh—of, uh, what’s his name? Eddie Rabbitt. He managed, uh, Dolly Parton , Eddie Rabbitt, Leif Garrett. And I convinced him to let me bring them to this girl to make what they call “death masks”. In other words, they put—they lied down, and they put this stuff on your face. And they literally lift up this mask. And they make a mold. And I go to a factory. And I made 10,000 Eddie Rabbitt masks the first time around. And we would sell them l—like t-shirts or hats. It was the first time masks—so you could be in the audience looking at your favorite star, wearing his mask. So that would be a trip. I remember heading[sic] Barry, uh—Barry White. I met him on a plane going from, uh, L.A. to New York. And his manager was sitting next to him. And his wife, Glodean . And, uh, uh, I told him—I showed him an Eddie Rabbitt mask. He goes, “You mean I’ll be sitting at the piano, [sings] Whoah. Doing that. And everybody out there was going to have my face?” “Well, it could happen. But you get a percentage of all the sales. Like t-shirts and, uh, merchandise.” So, uh, we did that. And I was on my way to New York. I ended up on the front cover of the New York Post with—on Park Avenue, with a group of people wearing Eddie Rabbitt masks. And my arm and his arm. And me and Eddie Rabbitt were like this. And the next picture was Dolly Parton at Studio 54 wearing an Eddie—walking with an Eddie Rabbitt mask. I have all that. I think you’ve seen it. Um, um, so that was kind of fun. So, we did United Artists. Uh, that album was Jesse Cutler. Then Music of, um—Disco Diet. I called the mask company “Mask”. M-a-s-q dash A dash Raves. R-a-v-e-s. Masq-A-Raves. And [taps table] the, uh—and the distributor said, “You—you should go to like Thailand or, uh, the Philippines. They can manufacture it at like 20 cents apiece. Because I was paying probably around $1.59 per mask. Says, “You can get it for like 15, 25 cents. But I was a little afraid to fly all the way to—at that time to the Philippines. Because I’d never been there talking to somebody in a factory. So, I let that go. Well, then after that, uh, what else did I do? Oh. So, because I was always primarily a guitarist, songwriter and singer, I kept going at that. Oh. And then, I had my piano. And I came up with this idea called “Rockula”. R-o-c-k-u-l-a. The o—the other day, I’m looking at the word. It’s “Rock You L.A.”. But I didn’t think about that ‘til like years later. Rockula was about the, uh—the coming of like the Christ. The new spiritual image for the youth of the world. And it was a kind of a goth-rock kind of musical. And I actually got a—a—I went in the studio, and I hired, uh, uh, Alice Cooper’s band. And they were great. Uh, not Alice Cooper, but his band. And, uh, the tracks came out great. And as while I’m talking, you could hear everything that I’m saying on Spotify, Apple, Google, iHeart Media. Just about every music platform. You could hear all this very interesting music. I have to say, I was very blessed to be able to get the musicians on the level—top level. And that’s going from when I signed with Brut Records in New York. When I walked in, the studio band was Aretha Franklin’s band. It was Chuck Rainey , uh, on bass. And Cornell Dupree on guitar. And Bernard Purdie , which was known as “Pretty” Purdie, on drums. And I got the best compliment of my life. I was 21 years old. And when we were just going through the—the three singles that I made for Brut Records. The first one was called “Sympathy”, and it would go [imitates song]. So, now we’re rehearsing it. And “Pretty” Purdie comes over to me. He goes, “For a white boy, you got perfect timing.” And, to me, that was the greatest compliment I ever had anywhere. Because all those Aretha Franklin hits, if you listen to the drums and the hits on the snare and the symbol and bass and everything and tom toms, it’s “Pretty” Purdie. And he compli-[knocks table]-mented me. You know, going back for a moment, I was born in Brooklyn, New York. And I lived there ‘til I was five or six years old. And, uh, I lived on Grove Street in Ridgewood. And I was a little boy. But when I watched TV, I got always excited seeing musical people on television. And because I pretty much was alone—I had an older sister, seven years old. So, she was in her own world. I was a little kid, and TV became my friend. And I got lost watching, uh, American Bandstand . Not knowing that my father built a house on Long Island, and that I would be living there. And by the time I was in the first year of junior high, I befriended a fellow named Rick Shutter, who’s been honored in the, uh, Modern Drummer magazine. Two-page article about him. It’s a little picture of me, too. He introduced me. I—I—I asked him to be in my band. A guy—a kid was riding down the street with a guitar, and I go, “Is that a guitar?” He goes, “No. It’s a bass.” I go, “Listen. Let me hear you play.” I put a band together. It was called The Young Executives. My father came down the basement. Now, remember I’m 12 years old. And he goes, “You guys are pretty good.” He says, “I think I’ll manage you.” Within a year, we wore derbies, custom made suits. I had a wall full of, uh, big amplifiers. He bought us all top equipment. My—my favorite Strat—Stratocaster. My Fender. Next thing you know, we’re playing parties for The Beatles , The Rolling Stones , Barbra Streisand , Anthony Newley . I met everybody by the time I was 14. And we got signed to Mercury Records. So, as a flashback, here we were the youngest band in history on the Billboard charts. Our first record was called “Everybody Do the Duck”, which was a dance—dance routine. And we were booked on all the big shows. Merv Griffin , Clay Cole Show . And we—the biggest thrill was we were on “Rate-a-Record” on Bandstand. Now, remember, as a little boy, I watched Bandstand. Dick Clark . And now, I’m watching our record, “Everybody Do the Duck”, in competition with a famous British band called The Searchers . And our record won the “Rate-a-Record”. We beat out The Searchers. I mean, this is a—amazing. And so, uh, from that point, I turned 14. And we were doing concerts. We opened up at the Commack State Stadium in Long Island for Gary Lewis & the Playboys and The Troggs . [sings] Wild thing [imitates song]. And, uh, that was life. And then one day, when we were booked on Merv Griffin, uh, the bass player, Steve Wagner, his father says, “Oh. Steve can’t make it. He has a dentist appointment.” And my mother goes, “That’s it. That’s the end of the band.” She couldn’t believe that he would make a deal out of a dentist appointment when we were ready to break out in front of 25 million people on the Merv Griffin Show. That was the end of that. And so, I turned 14. I was put into a—a—a yeshiva. A Jewish—very expensive Jewish prep school in Jamaica Estates in Queens, Long Island. Eh, well, Queens. And, uh, for the next three years, I became the head of the music department. And I put on the shows at the assembly. I got to play my guitar again. But I was back in Normalville. I was in the normal zone. And then, when, um, I was in my second year of college, Rich Shutter calls me up. He said, “Somebody just walked in who, uh, wrote a play. And he’s looking for, uh, some musicians.” He says, “Bring your guitar over.” I go, “I’m not interested. I’m going to go to NYU to become and entertainment lawyer.” I thought I could help a lot of people. And that would be fun. So, I—he convinced me. I came over there with my guitar. And in walks a fellow named Stephen Schwartz . He goes to the piano and he plays all these songs. I go, “What do you call that?” He goes, “Godspell”. “What do you mean? Like gospel?” He goes, “Yeah. Something like that.” I go, “That’s guitar music.” And I’m able to listen and play back instantly. That was a lucky thing of—that I could do mentally. And I play back. He says, “Man. I was you in the show. I want you to—I want —I want you to be my guitarist.” And I told my dad about it. I go, “This guy named Stephen Schwartz asked me to be in his play.” My father goes, “Those plays close in two weeks.” Godspell ran for 12 years on Broadway. I did 8—800 shows. Eight shows a week for 18 months. Recorded the original cast album. I got my first Grammy. I was the lead guitarist, and I invented all the parts, actually. Because Schwartz put a chord chart down. So, there were all the chords. But when it came to the solos, I made them all up. And the album went to the Top 10. In the—that—number one in the world. And it’s still going. It’s still going. It’s playing in Tampa, I just read, for, uh, a week or ten days in March. Uh, into March. Like it starts late February into March 2024. Uh, nonetheless, I ended up signing with Brut Fabergé because I just came out of a hit show, and I had some managers. So, I’m going to get into the—more structure. So, at the time I left Godspell, I had e—enough of it. And I picked up my guitar and I walked around Manhattan, knocking on doors. And said, “I write my own songs. I play guitar. I’m all compact. I’m—I’m everything. I sing. I play. And I write ‘em.” And, uh, first one was, uh, somebody—they offered me $10,000 to sign with one company. But I didn’t feel right at that time. And I kept knocking on doors. And finally, I knocked on the door of one of these managers, not knowing that the partnership—one fellow’s name was Bob Bregman. I didn’t know it, and I should have known it, but his brother was Martin Bregman , who produced all the Al Pacino movies. And strangely enough, Al Pacino is 100% Sicilian, like me. And 11 years older. And I would—20. I had a good look at the time. I would have ended up in all those movies. But I—which I—whoever is watching this, think twice before you make a move. Before you leave something. Because you’ll look back and years later, that—how did I make that mistake? But I didn’t know Bob Bregman was Martin Bregman’s brother. Because that’s—here’s my point. If you really want to be—if you want a job as an entertainer, and you want to make a living at it, and you want to write songs, make records, and go on tour, be signed to an agency, you need a top manager. I’ve said this to everybody in L.A., I—which I lived over 20 years. Tell me who your manager is, and I’ll tell you how far you’re gonna go. How does a Snoop Dogg get on a Katy Perry album? Think about it. I mean, they just pick up the phone and they go like this. “Hey, Bob. It’s John. Listen. We want to move Snoop more into the white market. Let’s put him on Katie’s album.” “Now, that’s a good idea.” That’s how it works. Just like that. So, if you’re dreaming about stardom, the only way that you could really make it and do television and videos and be on tour, remember it’s a business. It’s the business of showbiz. And it’s a business. Managers take anywhere from 15 to 20%. Although with Elvis and Colonel Parker , he had 50%. They were 50/50. But look what he did. A—agents generally take 10%. Maybe 15%. Like big agencies like William Morris or GAC . Those are the big ones. So, if you have a top manager and a top agent, you got a shot. Because the record company, if it’s that good, will promote it. And you’ll go on tour. And you’ll make money on tour. And, uh, if you have a tight little band that’s good, you’ll have a bus. You’ll be a tour bus. And you—that’s your life. And if you have a certain knack for acting, at some point, you be—you move as you get older—when I’m watching Steve Harvey on the $100,000 Pyramid —I looked him up. I couldn’t believe he’s totally bald now with a big mustache. He was a handsome guy with a full head of hair. I just saw him yesterday. But I watch that show every night. I’m addicted to gameshows. Meanwhile, my point before I end this thought: management, agency is the key to success. There’s no other way. Period [taps table]. In the meantime, as a quick review [knocks table], uh, this album, let’s see, for United Artists, which I re—redid. I repackaged. Then one day, I took the music from Disco Diet, which was really good. At the time, I put my girlfriend I—on it. And I repackaged the album. And I called it her last name: Yú, which in Chinese means “fish”, believe it nor not. And I repackaged it. And it gets a lot of airplay. Great sound. It’s all instrumental. Then at one point, I had so many tracks of sound—I made a lot of demos. Before we would go in and make a s—final album, you have to demo your stuff. So, I went in. I actually have 22 tracks on this particular album called Test of Time. And it’s a great title because it still sounds really good. And I have all kinds of musicians on here, as I mentioned, with—with Bernard Purdie and Chuck Rainey. He’s on here with me. And I have, uh, Alice Cooper’s band on here. I even have on Track 18, Live On, Don Ellis , one of the greatest trumpet players in the world that I was fortunate to meet. When we had—Randi, my girlfriend I mentioned earlier. That was Randi Pitch. After we broke up, she ended up marrying the vice president of Warner Brothers. And he went on to ma—to manage, uh, uh, the—the fellow, uh, who married, um—he was Australian. Keith—Keith Urban . Keith Urban came from Australia as a rock and roll guy. But because he landed in Nashville, they put some slide strings behind him to give him that country sound. But he’s really a rock and roll cat. He married, uh—what’s her name? Uh, famous actress. Uh, [taps table] It’s funny. I say her name all the time. But anyway, he married a famous actress with blonde hair. And, uh, Randi was married to the vice-president who went on to manage him. And, uh, I guess Randi was very lucky. Because of her—I met her on every Valentine’s Day. I would look around like, “Who am I going to meet today?” Because I met this girl named Shirley on Valentine’s Day in 2008. I met Randi, who was instrumental in connecting me with the producers with this, on Valentine’s Day in 1996. So how many year[sic] difference is that? That’s, uh, 12 years? Yeah. Is that 12 years? 12 years. I went from this to this in 12 years. And it happened again. So, I’m like in the 12 years cycle. Then I moved to, uh, uh, Orlando. And I love Winter Park, which is a great place. It’s the nicest place in Orlando. Sort of like somewhat of the Beverly Hills or Brentwood of—of Florida. And I was so taken by Winter Park and all the restaurants and the park itself—they have concerts—that I decided to make an album called “Music of Winter Park”. And I named it “Heart”. And it was a dedication album as an homage to the City of Winter Park. And it sold out. Then I got married. And my wife’s family owned one of the biggest radio stations in Orlando—I was lucky—called, uh, uh, WLOQ, which they coined the phrase “smooth jazz”. And they had all the top artists come into Orlando. And they would play in Winter Park at the park. And have a concert scene. They still do that today. And that was 1998. 1999. I met her. Her name was Elizabeth. And for three years, we had a great time. And she—and at that time I was going to go into real estate. And we got married. And I bought six acres. And, uh, she had two little kids. And I built a treehouse. And I walked around the neighborhood saying, “If you want to sell your house, call me first.” And, uh, [knocks table] one day she said to me, “You know, you should make a new album.” I go, “Who needs another Jesse Cutler album?” I go, “Let me think about that.” Saying that to me is like telling an ex-drug addict, “Oh. There’s some heroin over there.” You know? Like music to me was—I do no drugs, by the way. Music is my drug. My passion. My magic. Music completely—I listen to music. And I’m driving every day. All—all—most of the day. Everyday. And I’m—I’m blessed. Because when I have Spotify on, all of a sudden, my face pops up. And my music’s coming through there. What a gift. But that’s from hard work. That’s from really moving around. And if that happens to you, you’ll remember what I’m saying. Well, after we got divorced, I gave her the property. And I got an apartment. And during my marriage, I came up with the idea—when she said, “Why don’t you make a new album?” That was like kind of the worst thing she could have ever told me. Because after I thought about it, instead of making one album, I made [knocks table] 12 albums. I came up with the concept of scoring every astrological sign. And in my head, because I’m a marketing person, every human being on Planet Earth is one of these signs. So, the marketplace is 100% consumable. 100%. Everybody is one of these. And that means you could buy for yourself, or you could buy one [knocks table] as a birthday gift. And so, my target was Hallmark . And it—when you opened them, not only did I have music, but I had all the information about each particular astrological sign. I get to throw some of my pictures in there. And it was a—a little—little something here about me. And so, this was—this is because she says, “Why don’t you make another album?” And this was very expensive [knocks table]. That’s—that’s [knocks table] 12 albums, but I actually made 13. I made a sampler. I took one track from each album, and I made a sampler. And so, [knocks table] I packaged 78 in a—a beautiful custom box. With 78 albums. And we placed them in stores. I didn’t get Hallmark, which I—I’m s—was shocked because it was perfect for them. But I sold out. And so, after we [hits table] got divorced, I [taps table] got my apartment. And I’m thinking, “Hm.” Well, I was advertising “Music of the Stars” in New Age Retailer magazine. I was buying full-page ads to promote this. And I befriended the head of advertising. I came up with an idea. I saw all these people advertising their musical albums, so I held the magazine to my head. I didn’t hear anything. In other words, just having a picture of an album is one thing. But imagine if you could hear it. So, I came up with the idea of ESP: eclectic sound pallets. In other words, I would put 16 or 17 people on this album, and make a deal with a New Age retailer, which went to three continents, to put this on the front cover of the magazine with a poly bag around it, with a full-page color ad, and a website that showcased each—each artist with a clip and a biography. And it would connect to them. So, it’s interconnecting. I took all three things: music distribution, magazine full-page ad, and the website. Now, I’m not the smartest guy in the world, but after you do this many albums, and p—and play with that many people, and that many producers and agents [thumps table], you start to see things in a different way. This was probably one of the greatest things I ever did. And I managed to make 10 New Age albums and two albums for Latin Beat Magazine on the front cover. I even got, uh, what’s his name? Uh, the most famous conga player. I—I got his son. I can’t think of it now. But, uh—but, uh, I got a lot of top artists. Spanish. And because I couldn’t speak Spanish—Habla un poquito español—my friend, Tony, spoke fluently five languages. So, I made him a producer. And he got all happy about it because his name went on every album, and on the full-page ads. Anthony Hattenbach [taps table]. Anyway, that’s a little bit of that. I think that, uh, the bottom line is all these products that I’ve made, and all the experiences I’ve had, I’m saying to you if you’re dreaming about having a career in show business, get a—get a—make your demos. Get a manager. You’re going to need a publisher, and you’re going to need an agent [taps table]. Then you’re set. Then you may have a career. And on your tax form, it says “vocation”. You put “entertainer” [taps table]. And that’s how you do it. You set up a corporation, and that’s the bottom line. Meanwhile, these days [rubs table] I think about—at one point, I said, “You know, I should write a book.” And, uh, in 1989, I was running a big marketing company that published all these little magazines that were distributed through Walgreens, Eckerd’s, Rite Aid. Everywhere at the cash register. And I thought that was a good idea. And I sold advertising. And I became a manager. Then I became the east coast director. Then I became the national director over 38 states. But if I hadn’t done all that I’ve done, that would never have happened. Because now it’s all about communication, and channeling whatever it is that you’re doing to the right audience. Well, one day, I decided—I told my girlfriend, uh, “I’m going to write a book for the benefit of all dreamers wanting to be in show business. It’s called Starlust: The Price of Fame.” And starlust means lusting for stardom. That’s what that means. And, uh, I was fortunate enough to get Joe Renzetti , who won the Oscar for The Buddy Holly Story , to bless my book on the back cover. Stephen Schwartz, who wrote Godspell, Pippin , The Magic Show , and Wicked , signed the back cover. My friend, Ezra Kliger, who I spoke to this morning, was the conductor for Marc Anthony , Neil Diamond and just about everybody, as a top violinist. First violinist. Then he became a conductor. And I’m pushing him to write a book called, uh—what is it? I gave him some ideas. Uh, I keep pushing him. But—so, my girlfriend at the time in 1989 would drop me off at the library, starting on Jan [taps table] uary 1st, from [taps table] 9:00 in the morning to [taps table] 6:00 at night. [taps table] Five [taps table]days a [taps table]week. And [taps table] all [taps table] I [taps table] did for [taps table]seven [taps table]months was [taps table] write [taps table] every [taps table] day. You got be disciplined. On July 31st, a girlfriend of mine’s birthday—I’m godfather to her daughter—calls me up. She says, “Come meet us at, uh, Maria’s Café.” I go, “You know what? I just finished my book. It’s your birthday. So, it’s sort of a birthday for my book, too. Yeah. I’ll come.” We get—we get there. And, well, I wrote a book. But let me tell you, you have to have that—I wrote everything on a yellow pad. I had stack[sic] of yellow pads. Handwriting. I had to hire somebody to convert it into text. Which I did. Now you got[sic] to get a publisher. Well, to be honest, it took—I figured it out. I finished July 31st, 1989. It wasn’t published until 2008. So, that—what is that? 19 years? Or 18 years. It took about 18 years to finally publish it. How did I get it? Because I was in advertising, I met two fellows. I said, “Oh. Is this your company? Do you have a trademark?” I go, “I’ll do that for you. And, uh, 750 each.” So, I did two trademarks. And one of the fellows, I d—delivered the trademark. I got it for him. And I had one spot left on my advertising booklet. And I go, “Why don’t you take the last spot here? It’s fi—it's 1,500. I’ll give it to you for 1,000.” And he—he paid me cash. And after, I went to print and brought him a copy. I go, “You know, Michael. You know I could really use a partner. I have a book I’d love to publish.” And there, God struck lightning again. “[taps table] How much you need?” “I don’t know. 35. 40,000.” He goes, “Meet me at the bank tomorrow.” And it happened just like that. And my book went on. It’s all over the world. It’s distributed worldwide on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. And I went on a book tour. So, if you’re listening to all this stuff that I’m telling you, it all started when I was 13 years old with my little band of Long Islands. And my father was the manager. And he was great. So, your manager, again, is the key—na[sic], but I continued on and on and on. And I’ve had my ups and downs. But I kept going. And today, my goal is to take Starlust: The Price of Fame and make a movie based on my book about the climb as a child, whose dream was to perform and make it as a star in life to the world globally. And that’s my next challenge. And I’m going back to California to do that in a few months. And that’s where I’ll leave it right there. Starlust: The Price of Fame. Cravero Mr. Cutler, thank you so much again for sharing your time and speaking with us today. I really appreciate it. Cutler My pleasure. Cravero Alright. Well, this has been Geoffrey Cravero with Jesse Cutler at the University of Central Florida on February 23rd, 2024. Alice Cooper American Bandstand Aretha Louise Franklin astrology Barry Eugene Carter Barry White Bernard Lee “Pretty” Purdie Berry Gordy III Cecile D. Barker Chaka Khan Charles Walter Rainey III Cornell Luther Dupree Diana Ross Disco Diet eclectic sound pallets Eddie Rabbitt Edward Thomas Rabbitt Everybody Do the Duck Fabergé Geoffrey Cravero Godspell guitar Jay Jospeh Graydon Jesse Cutler Joe Renzetti Jolie Jones Levine Lee Mack Ritenour Lionel Brockman Richie Jr. Los Angeles Louis-Milo Gibaldi Margaret Ann Lipton Marvin Pentz Gaye Jr. Masq-A-Raves Mercury Records Michael Jospeh Jackson Milton Teagle “Richard” Simmons music music industry musician New York Quincy Delight Jones Jr. R&B music Randi Pitch recording industry Richard Simmons Rockula Roxy Theatre Rufus Shrine Auditorium Soul Wood Starlust: The Price of Fame Steely Dan Stephen Lawrence Schwartz United Artists Records Whisky a Go Go William Robinson Jr. Winter Park Young & Rubicam Young Executives https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/cbb84b1e34998b227096889c5935acdb.pdf c7c126fd6928c141a4b844b081ad4d67 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Alliance for Truth and Justice Collection Alternative Title ATJ Collection Description The Alliance for Truth and Justice (ATJ) is a volunteer-based organization that engages with the community to promote education concerning the truth of local history and to advocate justice for those who have been harmed by inequities born of prejudice. ATJ builds on the work of Montgomery-based Equal Justice Initiative as well as the local efforts of Democracy Forum, the West Orange Reconciliation Task Force, and the Ocoee Human Relations Diversity Board. This project is rooted in acknowledging the 1920 Election Day Massacre in Orange County and all of the violence committed in the name of white supremacy. Their mission statement says that they are "working to create a more hopeful, collaborative, and just society for every person in Orange County, Florida." Subject Lynching Memorials--Florida Publisher <a href="https://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Contributing Project Alliance for Truth and Justice External Reference Clark, Willie. "<a href="https://youtu.be/7AyarJcnzIg">The Ocoee, Florida Race Riot 1920</a>". YouTube video, 06:51. Posted [February 4, 2016].https://youtu.be/7AyarJcnzIg. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Robert Hickey Alternative Title Oral History, Robert Hickey Subject Ocoee (Fla.) Riots--Florida Race riots--United States Apopka (Fla.) Description An oral history interview of Robert Hickey, a descendant of the Hickey family of Ocoee, Florida. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on February 26, 2019. Some of the topics covered include the family history of the Hickeys, growing up with his grandparents, John and Lucy Hickey, in Apopka, how John Hickey became a prosperous landowner in Ocoee, learning about the Ocoee Massacre and the resettlement of his family from his grandmother, interviewing his grandmother as an adult and conducting his own research about his grandfather’s landholdings, reflections on the Ocoee Massacre, working towards righting the injustice and honoring his grandparents, his closing remarks, the significance of his family dogs in his childhood, and carrying on his grandfather’s legacy. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 The family history of the Hickeys 0:03:39 Growing up with his grandparents, John and Lucy Hickey, in Apopka 0:05:33 How John Hickey became a prosperous landowner in Ocoee 0:07:12 Learning about the Ocoee Massacre and the resettlement of his family from his grandmother 0:14:23 Interviewing his grandmother as an adult and conducting his own research about his grandfather’s landholdings 0:17:07 Reflections on the Ocoee Massacre 0:19:49 Working towards righting the injustice and honoring his grandparents 0:24:38 Closing remarks 0:27:51 The significance of his family dogs in his childhood 0:30:16 Carrying on his grandfather’s legacy Abstract Oral history interview of Robert Hickey. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida, on February 26, 2019. Type Moving Image Source Hickey, Robert. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, February 26, 2019, 2019. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/215" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Truth and Justice Project Collection</a>, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 36-minutes, and 07-seconds oral history: Hickey, Robert. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Apopka, Florida Edgewood-Greenwood Cemetery, Apopka, Florida Ocoee, Florida Hickey Subdivision, Ocoee, Florida Creator Hickey, Robert Cravero, Geoffrey Allen, Josie Lemon Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2019-02-26 Date Copyrighted 2019-02-26 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 1.62 GB KB Medium 36-minutes, and 07-seconds audio recording 15-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Robert Hickey, Geoffrey Cravero and Josie Lemon Allen and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Ortiz, Paul. "<a href="https://www.facingsouth.org/2010/05/ocoee-florida-remembering-the-single-bloodiest-day-in-modern-us-political-history.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Ocoee, Florida: Remembering the 'single bloodiest day in modern U.S. political history'</a>." Facing South, The Institute for Southern Studies. University of Mississippi, May 14, 2010. Accessed February 20, 2019. https://www.facingsouth.org/2010/05/ocoee-florida-remembering-the-single-bloodiest-day-in-modern-us-political-history.html. Cordeiro, Monivette. "<a href="https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/11/19/ocoee-will-issue-proclamation-acknowledging-1920-election-day-massacre" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Ocoee will issue proclamation acknowledging 1920 Election Day massacre</a>." Orlando Weekly. November 19, 2018. Accessed February 20, 2019. https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/11/19/ocoee-will-issue-proclamation-acknowledging-1920-election-day-massacre. Byrne, Jason. "<a href="https://medium.com/florida-history/ocoee-on-fire-the-1920-election-day-massacre-38adbda9666e" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Ocoee On Fire: The 1920 Election Day Massacre</a>. Medium. November 23, 2014. Accessed February 20, 2019. https://medium.com/florida-history/ocoee-on-fire-the-1920-election-day-massacre-38adbda9666e. Ericson, Edward Jr. "<a href="https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/dead-wrong/Content?oid=2258296" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Dead wrong</a>." Orlando Weekly. October 1, 1998. Accessed February 20, 2019. Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="https://youtu.be/yhaH48fBDQs">Oral Memoirs of Robert Hickey</a> Transcript Cravero …these here. Alright. So today is Tuesday, February the 26 th, 2019. My name is Geoffrey Cravero and I am speaking with Mr. Robert Hickey in the conference room of Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida in Orlando. Mr. Hickey, thank you for speaking with us today. Uh, if you would, let’s begin with some of your biography. Could you please tell us a little about where you’re originally from and your upbringing? Hickey Okay. Uh, I’m originally from Apopka, Florida. That’s where I was born in 1947. Uh, I was gonna speak a little to all of that by talking about my family in general. Cravero Perfect. Hickey Um, the Hickey Family. And I think that’s basically why I’m here. To talk about my grandparents. And I’d like to start by first talking about them. Uh, John Hickey. Uh, John Hickey was born March 1, 1871, in Moultrie, Georgia. Uh, my grandmother, Lucy, uh—Lucy Silonia Lott, was born in April, uh—born April 3, 1884, in Sneads, Florida. And, uh, she died in New York, uh, in June, uh—June 26 th of 1990. And my grandfather died in—in Apopka at home in September 1, 1955.5 Um, both are currently buried at—at the Edgewood Cemetery in Apopka. Um, it should be noted my grandfather both married previously—uh, he—I think he had some 23 years on my grandmother. And, uh, he was married, uh—I said previously. And their, uh, children from that previous marriage also in the Central Florida area. Um, uh, my grandmother, uh, uh, had six children from my grandfather. Uh, John. And, uh, one of which was my mother, Dorothy. And, uh, Dorothy gave birth to me, as I said before, uh, January 9, 1947, in Apopka. Uh, soon after birth, my mother went to New York to, uh, make a living for herself. And I remained in Florida with my grandparents. And, uh, until I became—I guess until puberty. But during that time, my grandmother would always take me to New York to visit with my mother and other relatives and in-law. And eventually, I wind up living with my uncle. My mother’s brother, David. And, uh, he put me through school. All the way through high school. And after I graduate from high school, I joined the army. And I served in both Vietnam and Germany as a helicopter crew chief. So, uh… Allen [coughs]. Hickey …and, uh, after that time spent in the military, uh, I came home and I attended state university in New York at Stony Brook [University]. And, uh, that’s where I got a degree in education. And I was—served as an educator for like the next 25, 30 years. And I’m currently retired and reside in Queens, New York. And, uh, I’d also like to mention at this time that I have a sister that’s the mayor, uh, in Framingham, Massachusetts. So just need to say that. So all this from the Hickey stock. So that generally speaks to the Hickey Family as a whole. Any questions you have about them other than that, I’d be more than happy to address. Cravero Um, what was it like growing up with your grandparents? With John and Lucy? Hickey Um, it was, um, a very warming experience. Of course, I didn’t understand it as much then. Uh, you know, um, it was just the two of them and myself. No television. Uh, uh, uh, just a typical evening would be spent, uh, with my grandparents listening to the radio. Usually Oral Roberts or someone like that. Maybe some hillbilly music, uh, out of the Ozarks. And, uh, eating oranges and looking at the fireplace. And, uh, I would sit and listen to these two old souls talk back and forth. And, uh, I—I really appreciate that now. I think that’s the foundation for some of my, uh, learning and wisdom. Uh, you know? I think it helps me to, uh, see things differently. So I—I really appreciate the time I spent with my grandparents. And so I was with them until I said—until about twelve years old. When I came north to live with my uncle. My uncle, who put me through school. So—but, uh, that foundation never left me. Uh, I was very happy as a kid with my grandparents. My best friends were my dogs. Had about five to six dogs usually. And th—they were my playmates. So—I mean I was happy. Yeah. So, uh, that’s basically about my—my relationship with my grandparents. It was—it was a good relationship. And I’m grateful. Cravero Um, what was the Hickey Family like, um, back in—when John and Lucy were younger from—from their stories? Before that—the Election Day. Hickey Okay. Well, um [clears throat], from the things my grandmother told me, and some of the friends of the family that was familiar with the situation, and from some of the research I’ve done, um, they were prosperous. As were most of the people in Ocoee from what I can tell. Uh, my grandmother, uh—grandfather was very industrious. He, uh, had a lot of property. Uh, property which they sold. I’ve seen a lot of copies of contracts where they sold stuff. Um, he also was in the lumbering business. He distilled turpentine because he had this huge pine forest, uh, p—a lot of pine trees on his property. So he would sell the lumber and he’d make turpentine out of the sap. And, uh, he also ran a liberty—livery—delivery business. He had an automobile and he had—did some delivery—delivery services. So he, like—like most of the people in the area were very prosperous. And, uh, they did well. Cravero Um, so what—did your parents—did your grandparents, uh, discuss, um, the events leading up to the—that Election Day, November 2 nd , 1920? Um, what the—what the overall community, uh, sentiment was like. And—and m—maybe the—the months or year or so leading up to that. Hickey Well, later in life, you know, uh, a—as I got older, more so towards high school age, when my grandma would come to New York to spend some time with us, she would utter certain things. But I had no idea of the gravity of it all. Uh, you know, I heard them mention Ocoee here, there. And, um, it was said, but it was like, you know, not a whole lot. So—but she spent a lot—she’s told most of what I know about it. She told me about the time that the Ku Klux Klan and all of ‘em rode through the community, burning down the homes and, uh, shooting up the place. And how they hid out in the swamps in stump holes until, uh, it was over. And, uh, when they came out of the s—swam—out of the swamps, uh, everything was gone. Everything was burnt up. And, um, my grandfather, you know, some of his livestock were still in place. So he did hook up the wagon to—with the mules and stuff. And, uh, at night he sent—the next night I think or so, he sent her and the children through some of the back roads to Apopka, where they had friends to stay with. And, uh, he didn’t want to be with them. He thought they would stand a better chance if they were stopped. And, uh, my grandma did say they were stopped by some white men on horses. But they let ‘em go. So he, uh—in the next day or two at night, he would travel through the woods and the swamps and stuff until he finally made his way to Apopka to join them. And that’s where they resettled. Luckily enough, he—he had property somewhere—everywhere. So luckily enough, he had property in Apopka, also. And, uh, a nice, um, citrus grove with orange trees and grapefruit trees. And so he built a nice home on the grove. Uh, and as well as several other little houses that he would rent to migrant workers that came in to pick oranges or work on the muck, so to speak. You know? The, eh—the workers that picked the produce and stuff. And, uh, so he would provide housing for them. So—but he, you know—he was pretty old. Like I said, he was much older than my grandma. So most of the time, when I knew my grandad, he was—eh, he’d seen his better years, so to speak. Cravero Mm. Hickey Yeah. So—but, uh, like I said, he resettled in Apopka. Um, again, uh, I didn’t know that we were lacking anything. Um, people would come by and speak with him. Talk with him. And, you know, about how things used to be. And—and I had cousins who said, man, you know? Mister—that grandad had a lot of money. You know? People thought that perhaps he had hid some of the money out in the grove and stuff. And, you know, I didn’t—I had no idea what they were really talking about. But as I did some research, you know—to come across, uh, articles that I read as to how he may have been one of the largest—had—he lost more land than probably anybody else in that whole situation in Ocoee. And to see his name in print: John Hickey Lost More than a Hundred and Some Acres. And, you know. So, you know. But, uh, s—I—so now I—and know he was a man of few words. He didn’t talk a whole lot. You know? And now I have a better understanding of what was probably bothering him. Yeah. Cravero Um, so [clears throat] do you have any—what are your, uh—did your grandparents ever mention, uh, Mose Norman or J—uh, July Perry? Did they have any relationship with either of them? Hickey Well, grandma mentioned—you know, when she was trying to tell me about the—th—the—the riot. Or the—the—I think they—some people called it a riot. Some people called it a massacre. She’d mention the fact that Mose Norman and them—she tried to explain who they were. But I didn’t—you know how they went and tried to vote. They all tried to vote. You know? I didn’t get whether or not s—they were suc—successful or not. But the fact that Mose and, uh, July Perry went and—and, uh, how he was murdered. J—July. Mose kind of got away for the moment. And that was supposedly the reason that they came into the community looking for him. And… Allen [clears throat]. Hickey …uh, that was the reason for them supposedly, you know—but that’s one school of thought. You know? That they were in pursuit of Mose and that’s why they decided to turn the place upside down looking for him. And burned them all out. Then again, you know, um, uh, how dare they have so much? You know? Some people thought that, well, these people got all that stuff out there. And, you know? They had more than a lot of the white people in the city had. So—but, uh, yeah. That part. She—they knew. Yeah. They were always a close-knit community. So, you know—so—but, uh. Yeah. She told me about th—the—you know, the night when all that went down. You know? How they had killed Mo— uh, July. Yeah. And I didn’t get—like I said, I wasn’t sure whether or not they had any success at voting. I think McKinley was—1920 it was. I—I think it was McKinley or something. They were supposed to—they were all fired up about voting. They were—they were excited about the opportunity. You know how that was. Paid the poll tax and all that other stuff. And really wanted to do it [adjusts papers]. But, uh, they were denied. You know? Cravero Did they ever mention, um, where a lot of their friends in the community ended up settling afterwards? Or—was Apopka like… Hickey Yeah. Apopka. Turned out to be a quite a few in Apopka and that area. You know? Um, uh, I’m not sure what made Apopka the place. I just assumed that they had property there as well. You know? Like I say, he had qu—quite a bit of property all around the area. So, uh, I guess maybe that’s why they headed to Apopka. Uh, you know? But it’s—there are a few other family members from Apopka she—from Ocoee that settled in Apopka. Uh, but, uh—and that’s the best I got it as a kid. You know? I mean I had no idea, uh, you know, what it was all about at an early age. And, like I said, it was much later that I got an understanding. Hickey And I did interview my grandma. One Saturday morning, a—a friend of mine said, “Wow, Bob. Why don’t you interview Grandma and just let her talk?” Because she’s w—a very few words. She only spoke basically when spoken to. You know? And she’d answer your questions. That was basically it. So a friend of my suggested, “Why don’t we take her out to breakfast and—and just ask her some basic questions?” ‘Cause she was a history major, this friend of mine. So she came up with some questions. And she just got her to talk. And that’s when she talked about this thing in some detail. You know? And—and how they lost so much. And—and how they were just grateful that they had their lives. And, you know? And so am I. You know? I’m—I’m glad to have met ‘em. You know? And then to read about John Hickey and h—his holdings. And I was most impressed with an article I came across, uh, uh, uh, referred to Hickey Subdivision. Uh, there’s a[sic] area in Ocoee right now, they still sometime[sic] refer to it as Hickey Subdivision. And right at the intersection right now I guess would be, uh, Ocoee-Apopka Road and Silver Star [Road]. Right in that general area. And it’s like three blocks or more where he had this property that he had divided up to more than 50 dissen—different parcels for sale. Uh, I don’t know if he was gonna sell it all or if he was going to do some development. [inaudible] —like the lots. So I don’t know if he was gonna try to develop it. But, uh, it seems like he had some grand plans. You know? And, uh, I—that made me real proud. You know? That he was thinking like that. You know? And, uh—and like I said, you know, he lost quite a bit. But he was still, you know, w—w—we wound up in Apopka, you know, in a nice orange grove that I was raised on. You know? Three. Two acres. And all—all kinds of fruit trees. I mean, tangerines, grapefruits, mandarins. I—I—I would say he had the only mandarin tree I ever seen in the area. So, you know? Guava bushes. You know? Um, tool shed full of all—whatever you needed. Smokehouse. Hams hanging. You know? He—he lived a good life. He believed that. You know? So I—I was real proud of that. But I didn’t—I just didn’t know. I just—it was a matter of fact, you know? But after seeing what they went through and reading about it, I got a great appreciation for it. Cravero Um, what are your own, uh, reflections on—on the Ocoee Massacre? Hickey Um, I think that, uh, it was a trem—quite an accomplishment. You know? It was short period of time when—after the end of slavery. Slavery ended in 1865, and here we’re talking about 1920. And, you know, 50 years or so later. Uh, a tremendous accomplishment by these African-American people to build a—a upstanding community, where most of them had. They weren’t lacking. They, you know—they had some fellowship. A comradery amongst themselves. You know? And, um, and—and i—they did well. They were thriving. And I mean, uh, Mose and July Perry. I think I read something about Mose had a real fancy automobile. He went to try to vote. [laughs] You know? But, uh, I was impressed. And, uh, ‘cause I was real sad to see what happened to them. That all of what they had, uh, all of a sudden on November 2 nd , 1920, the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness and all the thing that the American dream is supposed to be about came to a squeaking halt for these people. You know? I mean they in a f—in—in a matter of hours they had to flee for their lives. And, uh, you know, for—for the next 50 years, there weren’t[sic] no black people in Ocoee. 50 years plus. You know? So, um, it just seemed a little unfair, what happened to ‘em. And, you know, it happened a—a—has happened other places. You know? But, uh. Yeah. It was a bad thing. And like I said, i—it was, uh, pain and sorrow. You know? I was pleased and happy about what I read. How they lived and what they did. And then for it to end like that was, uh, bad. You know? Very disheartening. But—and now I understand why my grandad had—didn’t have much to say about anything. And right ‘til the—the time he died, he—he was a very bitter man. You know? So that—you know, that’s it. Uh, uh, so—yeah. So with that’s, you know, um—I’m glad to know that they accomplished all those things. I’m sad to see how it ended. Yeah. Cravero Um, can you talk a little about what efforts have been made to somehow right the injustice? And—and what else can be done? What’s—what’s lacking? Hickey Well… Cravero [clears throat]. Hickey …um, I’ve heard things. Uh, we were contacted by, uh, a—a writer for Associated Press. I forget his—Allen—I—I forget his—his name. But, you know, he brought it to our attention about, you know, what happened then. You know? And the injustices of it all. And what—the different type of, uh, movements. Uh, people were trying to do some things to try to right that wrong. And, um, uh, that’s why I was real glad to hear about Josie’s group and their efforts. And, uh, when—and when they reached out to me, I—I was, “Wow. Yes.” I was, “Anything I can do to help the situation.” And I’m grateful for—for that organization, uh, and all the others. You and your group. And any way that, uh—to right the situation as best possible. I mean, you know, I don’t ever think there’s gonna be any type of reparations. As a matter of fact, I s—did speak with someone, uh, regarding that. I spoke with the same attorney that handled the Rosewood case. And, uh, you know, explained who I was and—and what my concerns and issues was[sic]. And he told me, said, “Well, you know, the Florida legislature said this is a one-time deal. You know? This is not gonna set a precedent. This is it [claps hands]. Boom. Bop. Boom.” I said, “Well, how can this, you know—it’s all the same.” But, uh, that’s what I got from him. Okay? And, uh, I have notes on all of that stuff. But, um, I’m happy to see that people are—the community is now integrated. Uh, as a matter of fact, um, uh, aside from visiting, uh, Apopka, where my grandparents’ ceme—eh, eh, burial site, you know—I do visit that, uh—them whenever I’m in town. And—and I don’t know if I mentioned before that, you know, I had a tombstone put out there for them, uh, a couple of years ago. An inscribed at the base of the tombstone is a—is a phrase. It’s a little saying. It says, “They survived”—excuse me. “They prospered in, and survived Ocoee. November 2, 1920.” You know? So right after I had that put in, the lady contacted me from the—you know, I’ve been doing this. I spoke with City Hall in Apopka about the right way to go about doing this. And the, uh, clerk from City Hall called me a couple of days after it was installed. Said, “There’s a lady that wants to contact you. She was at the cemetery. She saw this new tombstone you had erected—put there for your grandparents. And she’d like to talk to you.” So, uh, this was [knocks], um, the— from the historical society in Apopka. Uh, you know her name [knocks]. Allen Francina… Hickey Francina… Allen Boykin. Hickey Boykins. And so then she called me. And she s—said, “I saw that saying.” You know? So, you know, I was impressed that that got her attention. You know? Because I want, you know—and I don’t want anybody—I don’t want them to be known for that much. They did well there. And they survived it. You know? The—the whole thing. So—but, um, you know? That’s basically it. Uh, uh, so, uh, yeah. I will do whatever I can to keep the momentum going. Any way I can help the organization moving forward. Uh, I—I will do that. And so, i—i—making a trip like this. Hey, it worked. We worked it in. I was happy I could be here. You know? I was coming. And so… Cravero [clears throat]. Hickey …and, uh, the other thing that we’re gonna do, uh, my friends and I, we’re gonna go out and play a little golf in their honor on Saturday in Ocoee [laughs]. So, you know, I—I—I’ll be thinking about ‘em. Cravero That’s fantastic. Well, we, uh—Mr. Hickey, we appreciate you making the trip out here and sharing your story with us. And, um, do you have any final thoughts you’d like to share? Anything else you’d like to add before we… Hickey Well… Cravero ...finish? Hickey …um, again, uh, um, uh, I’d just like to again say that I’m grateful. And I’m in full support of the Peace and Justice Initiative and all the other affiliate organizations and individuals who have dedicated themselves to increasing the knowledge of the p—events that occurred on November 2 nd , 1920. And that they continue their dialogue and panel discussions with local scholars and—and groups to try to, uh, bring back some type of truth and reconciliation in this regard. And, uh, I pledge to do whatever I can to move the agenda forward. Cravero Alright. Well, thank you so much. Hickey So any time I can be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to call. Cravero He’s looking at you [laughs]. Hickey No. I’m looking at both of you. Allen [coughs]. Hickey ‘Cause you’re a team. Cravero Right. Allen Well, I just also want to thank you for coming out and doing the interview. It means so much. Hickey Well, I—I want to thank you a—and y’all for what you’re doing. For having interest in it. You know? I mean I didn’t—you know, I didn’t know that people had that much interest in the whole situation. Okay? Allen I have a question. Hickey Mhmm. Allen So, eh, does—does your family now continue to tell the story to the generations that have come in your family? Hickey I am the lead person in my family right now. Pretty much. See, I was mostly y— you know, like I said, my grandparents had, uh—my grandma and my grandad—that union that—there were six children. And out of those children, I think I’m the oldest of the grands. You know? Um, and, uh, the rest of ‘em, th— they don’t—they really don’t have an idea about this. Except when I tell ‘em— my two nieces that I brought with me last summer, they were very interested, you know? And they live here in Florida now. South Florida. And they were very interested because that’s the kind of girls they are. You know? So, wow. You know? So they intrigued by those type of thing. As a matter of fact, they went out to Apopka and visited the historical society. And—and—and, you know? So, uh, yeah. They have interest. But, uh, not many of ‘em. You know? Uh, they have—they don’t quite understand. Uh, you know, I—get together for Thanksgiving, I do some storytelling. You know? But, and like again, I’m—I’m grateful that I have my—I spent my early childhood with my grandparents. You know? I—I can’t tell you how invaluable that is. You know? I mean just raw wisdom. You know? Allen When did you become aware of the world? So you didn’t have a t.v. And it is you, John and Lucy. When did you become… Hickey Yeah. Allen …aware… Hickey Well… Allen …of what was… Hickey Well, those few trips that we, you know—I was a happy kid. My—my grandad, he was—he couldn’t do very much. My grandma was still trying to work. My grandma would take a bus to—from Apopka to Orlando to work in the kitchen wa—washing dishes in the morning. She would do—catch the bus from Apopka at about 4 [inaudible] in the morning. In the dark. My dogs would walk her to the bus stop, which about a mile or so to what we called a “hard road”. Because we lived down on the dirt road. So they would walk her to the bus stop in the morning. She’d catch the bus into Orlando. And then the dogs came back and they’d lay out in the front yard until I got up. I was pretty much on my own. Just me and my dogs. I—I was able to get me[sic] something to eat and put on my little shorts and straw hat. And my dogs and I were all over town the rest of the day. People would say all they would see [laughs] a little—the dogs and a little straw hat in the middle. The dogs—and I get emotional—took care of me. They took care of me. I mean I could go somewhere, it started raining like now. I’d get up on the big oak tree. It looked like a canopy. Rain would hardly hit the ground sometimes. Later, I’d take a nap. And not that I was being neglected, but I was— that was it. And this is before, you know, first grade, kindergarten. Try to do that with a kid today. Hickey So from that little snotty nosed kid running around Apopka with his dogs to retire as an educator, high school principal, Vietnam veteran, helicopter mechanic, you know? It came from somewhere. So it was in the genes. If—if he could do what he did, you know—and like I say, to see his name in print, and the Hickey Subdivision, 50 plots of—on this map. It’s all laid out. How much did he lose? And they were selling property all the time, too. So he was very industrious. And, uh, you know, just—just pleased to be a part. You know? You got any more questions for me? I—I’ll be more than happy to answer them. Allen Well, just a few. Um… Hickey You alright… Allen You said that your… Hickey …there, buddy? Cravero I’m fine. Hickey [inaudible]. Allen You said that your grandfather… Hickey Mhmm. Allen …when he died, he was… Cravero [clears throat]. Allen …bitter. Hickey I, you know… Allen How did he show it? How did he… Hickey He never… Allen …show… Hickey He loved me. I’ll say that much. Uh, he was—he was pretty old. Now I was born in ’47. He died in ’55. Um, there were times that, you know, he was—his health was failing. His mind was getting weak. Uh, but he didn’t, y—you know—he treated me well. As he called me Bob. And, um, he—my aunt, who was their baby girl, she was there. You know? The funny book reading. And she was like a teenager and stuff like that. She tried to chastise me and he’d tell her she’d better not. Leave him alone [inaudible]. [laughs] But, uh, uh, no. He didn’t talk a whole lot about too much of anything. Some people would come by and visit. I had cousins that came by and say, “You know.” Said mist—they s—my grandma always called him Mr. Hickey. That’s what she referred to him as: Mr. Hickey. And then some—some of my cousins was at—would come by—from like his other set of children. Some of their grandchildren and stuff, they’d come by to see him, too. And pay homage. And there was a good relationship between the other siblings on both ends. And one of my cousins tell me, he said, “You know, they said that—that grandpa—that when the banks and stuff was having problems with the money. And he didn’t quite understand. So he went up to ask the man at the bank, ‘Well, what ya’ll need?’” [laughs]. Allen [laughs]. Hickey They were having some—[inaudible] shut the banks down because the money wasn’t flowing right. So he went—made ‘em—“Well, how much you need?” [laughs]. They thought that was funny. You know? So, like I said, people thought there was money buried out in the orange grove and stuff. You know? But I don’t know whatever happened. It may have been. You know? But, uh, uh, I think he lost a whole lot. And, like I say, he not only lost property with that situation, but I think he lost dignity as well. And I think that’s the reason that he was so bitter. You know? Because he was used to being a self-sufficient, standup man. And the—to lose everything like that. And he couldn’t do anything about it. And I’m not sure how all of his land was lost. I—I would be anxious to see the records on how land was transferred from that point on. Because, uh, I’m thinking that when he may have been weak and not well, that he may have had visitors to his home to coerce him into doing some things that maybe he wasn’t really f—willing to do or wanted to do. And, uh, I’m thinking some of that could have—it [inaudible]—you know? Because he was too much of a businessman. Too smart. And, uh—and I just think that, uh, it was just taken from him. So that’s why I’m curious to, uh, see what it looks like now on the corner of, uh, Silver Star and, uh, Ocoee-Apopka Road. You know? So—but, uh, that, I want to take a look at. Allen I don’t have anything else. Cravero You good? Alright. Well, thanks again, Mr. Hickey. This has been, uh, Geoffrey Cravero with Robert Hickey in the conference room of Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, on Tuesday, February 26, 2019. Hickey Yeah. Thank you. Cravero Sounds good. Thank you. Allen Thank you. 1920 United States presidential election African-American history Apopka Dorothy Hickey Edgewood Cemetery Edgewood-Greenwood Cemetery Francina Boykin Geoffrey Cravero Hickey Subdivision John Hickey Josie Lemon Allen Julius "July" Perry Lucy Silonia Lott Hickey Mose Norman Ocoee Ocoee Massacre Robert Hickey https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/9f972105dd19c9b193d7fb620849cd11.pdf a1e710425765a8ad20fc572b4c1f4568 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Sumner Hutcheson III Collection Alternative Title Sumner Hutcheson Collection Subject Miami-Dade County (Fla.) Miami (Fla.) Description A collection of materials from Sumner Hutcheson III, who was a Senior Executive manager with the American Red Cross for over 30 years, a senior administrator at three universities, and Chair of the Peace and Justice Institute. Creator Hutcheson III, Sumner Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Donation Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Oral Memoirs of Sumner Hutcheson III Alternative Title Oral History, Sumner Hutcheson III Subject American Red Cross Miami-Dade County (Fla.) Miami (Fla.) Bethune-Cookman College (Daytona Beach, Fla.) Description An oral history interview of Sumner Hutcheson III. The interview was conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida, on September 15th, 2025. Some of the topics covered include growing up in Brownsville, the entrepreneurship of his parents and meeting Black musical artists in his fathers store, his grandfather, Sumner Hutcheson I, being influenced by Marcus Garvey and immigrating to the United States from the Bahamas, his grandparents move back to Miami, his grandfathers entrepreneurship, and his familys businesses, the history of Brownsville and the types of professionals in the community, attending grade school, and educators that influenced him and his sister, his father attending Bethune-Cookman University and joining the schools first football team, his father facing discrimination while traveling with his football team and the power of Mary McLeod Bethune, the role of friends in the Jewish community in his fathers businesses, lessons learned from his father, facing discrimination on the high school swim team and his fathers response, the consequences of racial integration, and growing up around the Latino community, attending Bethune-Cookman and Barry Universities, becoming involved in the American Red Cross and his career experience with the organization, including working for Elizabeth Dole, retiring from the Red Cross, selling real estate, and returning to work for the Red Cross, retiring from the Red Cross for the second time, and becoming Vice-President of University Advancement at Bethune-Cookman, retiring from Bethune-Cookman and immediately being recruited to work for Florida International University, his life after retirement doing consulting work and working with the Peace and Justice Institute, meeting Presidents John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, finding a last-minute helicopter to bring Bernadine Healy to the Mary McLeod Bethune home, and his closing remarks. Table Of Contents 0:00:00 Introduction 0:00:24 Growing up in Brownsville, the entrepreneurship of his parents and meeting Black musical artists in his fathers store 0:03:42 His grandfather, Sumner Hutcheson I, being influenced by Marcus Garvey and immigrating to the United States from the Bahamas 0:05:30 His grandparents move back to Miami, his grandfathers entrepreneurship, and his familys businesses 0:09:08 The history of Brownsville and the types of professionals in the community 0:15:02 Attending grade school, and educators that influenced him and his sister 0:17:54 His father attending Bethune-Cookman University and joining the schools first football team 0:20:37 His father facing discrimination while traveling with his football team and the power of Mary McLeod Bethune 0:24:16 The role of friends in the Jewish community in his fathers businesses 0:25:34 Lessons learned from his father, facing discrimination on the high school swim team and his fathers response 0:29:31 The consequences of racial integration, and growing up around the Latino community 0:34:32 Attending Bethune-Cookman and Barry Universities, becoming involved in the American Red Cross and his career experience with the organization, including working for Elizabeth Dole 0:39:00 Retiring from the Red Cross, selling real estate, and returning to work for the Red Cross 0:41:45 Retiring from the Red Cross for the second time, and becoming Vice-President of University Advancement at Bethune-Cookman 0:44:24 Retiring from Bethune-Cookman and immediately being recruited to work for Florida International University 0:45:44 His life after retirement doing consulting work and working with the Peace and Justice Institute 0:48:02 Meeting Presidents John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush 0:56:40 Finding a last-minute helicopter to bring Bernadine Healy to the Mary McLeod Bethune home 1:03:21 His closing remarks Abstract Oral history interview of Sumner Hutcheson III. Interview conducted by Geoffrey Cravero in Orlando, Florida, on September 15, 2025. Type Moving Image Source Hutcheson III, Sumner. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero, September 15, 2025. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES of Central Florida</a>, Orlando, Florida. Requires Multimedia software, such as <a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> QuickTime</a>. <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/231" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Sumner Hutcheson III Collection</a>, <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/182" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Miami-Dade County Collection</a>, RICHES. Has Format Digital transcript of original 1-hour 06-minutes, and 21-seconds oral history: Hutcheson III, Sumner. Interviewed by Geoffrey Cravero. Audio record available. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>, Orlando, Florida. Coverage Brownsville, Florida Overtown, Florida Jackson's Toddle Inn, Miami, Florida Bethune-Cookman University, Daytona Beach, Florida Miami Jackson High School, Miami, Florida Key West, Florida Mary McLeod Bethune Home, Daytona Beach, Florida Creator Hutcheson III, Sumner Cravero, Geoffrey Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Date Created 2025-09-15 Date Copyrighted 2025-09-15 Format video/mp4 application/pdf Extent 8.93 GB 442 KB Medium 1-hour 06-minutes, and 21-seconds audio recording 27-page digital transcript Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by Sumner Hutcheson III and Geoffrey Cravero and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES</a> Accrual Method Item Creation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="https://www.orlandosentinel.com/1997/09/25/new-red-cross-leader-ready-for-a-challenge/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">New Red Cross Leader Ready for a Challenge</a>." The Orlando Sentinel. September 25, 1997. Accessed March 27, 2026. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/1997/09/25/new-red-cross-leader-ready-for-a-challenge. Robbins, Seth. "<a href="https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/education/campus/2018/02/03/b-cu-alumni-demand-reform-while-remembering-universitys-roots/15301241007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=false&gca-epti=z112580e112580v000056&gca-ft=120&gca-ds=sophi" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">B-CU alumni demand reform while remembering the university's roots'</a>." The Daytona Beach News-Journal. February 3, 2018. Accessed March 27, 2026. Barton, Clara, and Cairns Collection of American Women Writers. <a href="https://search.worldcat.org/title/17484679" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">1898. The Red Cross : A History of This Remarkable International Movement in the Interest of Humanity</a>. Washington, D.C.: American National Red Cross. Transcript Cravero This is Geoffrey Cravero and I’m conducting an oral history with Sumner Hutcheson. The interview is being conducted at Trevor Colbourn Hall at the University of Central Florida on Monday, September 15th, 2025. Mr. Hutcheson, thank you for speaking with us today. If you’d begin, uh, please by stating your full name and telling us a bit about where you’re from and what life was like for you growing up. Hutcheson Surely. Um, thanks for the opportunity, first of all, to be here and to talk a little bit about my family. Um, I grew up, uh—I was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in a community that was often referred to as Brown Sub . Although I was born in Overtown . Overtown was the Black community, um, in, uh, Miami that actually was very rich because the community involved everything from single family homes to what they used to call Good Bread Alley, which was not so pleasant [laughs] in terms of the area. But Good Bread Alley was named that because they used to bake bread in that area. And the smell created that. But I grew up, um, in, um, uh—in—in Brownsville. But my family’s businesses—my father was a, uh, first of all, an appliance owner. He had Hutcheson Home Appliance Store on Third Avenue and, uh, Overtown. And my mother was a beautician. So, my mother had her own beauty shop there in Overtown as well. So, um, as in—during my early life, one of the things that was really a great experience for me was being able to, um, enjoy, um, looking at, um, the Butterball . That was a DJ that actually was on WMBM . It was about two doors down from my dad’s, um, appliance store around a glass, uh, enclosure. So, it’s like, um—let’s say like, um, The Today Show , where, you know, people can look in while the DJ was spinning the records. And that was fun as a kid. But even more importantly, uh, because my father had a record store as a part of his, um, uh, appliance store, uh, many times, um, Black artists, many of who[sic] which came to Miami, they would, uh, go to Miami Beach and entertain at the hotels and the like in that particular area. But then, they would come, uh, and live over town because they couldn’t live. Uh, and so sometimes those individuals would come to my father’s record store to sign autographs. And so, um, a lot of folk came in. I—I got s—see, um, when I was a little kid, Aretha Franklin , when her father, uh—when they came in town. But she was like a teenager at that point. Um, and, um, I got to see her. But the one I missed that I loved most was Nat King Cole . I used to think he was a fabulous singer. But my father was not able to get in touch with us. We didn’t have cell phones back in those days [laughs]. So, my father was not able to get in touch with, uh, my mom to, um—to bring me over while Nat was there. So, by the time she, um, uh—we were able to, um, get over town, he had already left. But, you know, they used to stay at the St. Elizabeth Hotel , uh, many times there in Overtown. Or some of the other hotels, ‘cause, you know, there was actually a thriving community. Overtown. I—I thought that, you know, people will walk the streets and drive up and down the streets and—and so, you know, there was really a lot of interesting situations in Overtown. Hutcheson And, as I shared with you earlier, even though I wasn’t aware of this un—until I was told this by, uh, the family members, Marcus Garvey used to come to town quite often. And when he came, you know, he was on his back-to-Africa movement . My grandfather, who was a pastor—that was the first Sumner Hutcheson . I’m Sumner Hutcheson III and he was the first Sumner Hutcheson. And he would, um, uh, march with Marcus Garvey in their white outfits on the stand down Third Avenue on usually Saturday or Sunday afternoons. Um, so Marcus was, uh, quite influential in terms of community. And I think it was primarily because, um, most of Overtown at that point was made up of families from the Bahamas. Well, that’s where my grandfather came from. My grandfather was actually born in the Bahamas. Um, he actually, um, came to the United States, uh, because of some family dispute over a girlfriend or a wife or something [laughs]. So, he came to, uh, the Bahamas, uh—come—came from the Bahamas. He was born in Eleuthera. On the island of Eleuthera. In a town called Hatchet Bay or Alice Town. And then, he went to Nassau to teach school. And then, he left there and moved to Miami. Uh, he eventually worked his way down to the Florida Keys—through the Florida Keys down to Key West. Well, he got married and that’s where my father was born. So, my—I still have many of my family and relatives, um, living in Key West, who, um—who are primarily there. And a part of my grandmother’s side of the family. Hutcheson But they eventually—their—their family moved back to Miami. And, uh, when, uh, they came back to Miami, they really, um, were doing all sorts of businesses. My grandfather owned a sundry, uh, as—as they were called back in those days. But he was also a reverend. So, he was a pastor. And he was a good teacher. So many times, I was told, that he would spend his Sunday afternoons on the porch. Always in his three-piece outfit. My grandfather never appeared outside the house, from what I understand, without a three-piece suit on. And, um, he would be on the porch training other pastors, along with Reverend Curtis and, um—Enid Curtis Johnson , who was, a, uh, good friend of the family’s. And just passed in her nineties just recently. She and her father and my grandfather would spend time together there and they would train other persons. My grandfather eventually built a rooming house, as it was called. And on top of the rooming house, there was a, um—the family quarters. So, they had family quarters and they had a 16-room rooming house on the bottom. And many times, people who came in from the Bahamas would stay there maybe temporarily. In fact, I still have some copies of the receipts. I forgot. It was very, very cheap {laughs] that they used to stay. I still have some copies of those at home, where my father kept them. And so, I’ve kept them. And so, um [smacks lips], my father, um [smacks lips], had lots of businesses. He—he was not only in, um, the—in the appliance business. He eventually closed his appliance store and decided to become a real estate broker. He was one of the first registered real estate brokers—Black—in the state of Florida. Because at one time, real estate folks were selling swampland [laughs] in—in—in Florida. And so, um, my father, who was born in 1905, um, to—and my mother, as I mentioned, who was a beautician, got married in 1935, um, there in Miami. And, um, as you could probably—if you add up all of those things, you probably think, well, wait a minute. Something is not right in terms of me. I’m 75 now, but, um, the reality is that, um, my parents were married for about 16, 17 years before I was born. And then, my sister came along about four years later. And I have a sister by the name of Pamela. And she’s that—she’s still a Hutcheson. So, she’s Pamela Hutcheson, who, um, I’m very proud of my sister. Because, um, she’s done a lot of really great things in her life. Um, had to cut—had to overcome some obstacles with drugs and the like. But eventually went into the McDonald’s business. And actually owned five franchises before she retired. So, I’m very proud of her. So, uh, but anyway, back to my dad. My dad, um [smacks lips], then went into the real estate business with the—with the help of a gentleman by the name of Mr. Songer[sp]. Mr. Songer[sp] was a Jewish gentleman, who my father established a relationship with. And, um, they, um, worked together to, um, help him get his real estate license. And he opened then Hutcheson Realty. Uh, and then he used to sell houses. Primarily in the Brown Sub, or Brownsville. Hutcheson I—I always get that mixed up now. Because we always called it Brown Sub. And so, now they call it Brownsville—but—community. So, that was the area he sort of farmed, if you will [clears throat]. The interesting thing about Brown Subdivision was that it was actually originally a—a large farm owned by a gentleman by the name of Mr. Brown . And it was his subdivision. And when the, uh, county of Dade decided to carve out that community and they called it homeowners paradise. But for ten years, they couldn’t decide whether that community would be white or Black. So, it took them a long time to actually, uh, make that decision. So, they finally made the decision that it would be a Black community. And so, we were one of the first, um, um, uh, families to move out there in 1950. My dad built his own home in 1950, uh, moving from Overtown and moving out to Brown Sub. And, um, I, you know—when we get a chance, I’ll show you some of the pictures. I actually still have pictures even of the house before it was actually, um—we actually move into it. Because they had to do it for permitting and tax purposes. They would look at the house and make a decision on what it would be taxed. But, um, it was, uh—it was really a lot of fun growing up in that community as well. Um, and one of the things that was really fascinating about that particular community is that while, um, people started moving to Brown Sub, and it started developing, and moved into homeowners paradise is the area that it was plotted as, um, they would, uh—a lot of professional people lived in that community. So, my teachers. Most of my teachers lived in the neighborhood. Uh, most of the doctors in the community lived in that neighborhood. Most of the Black dentists lived in that community. Some of them still having their businesses over town, uh, with the business section of that area, as my father did. But, um, would have, um, you know, just have their—their life over there because they could build single-family homes, um, on land that was actually pretty interesting. I—I remember people used to tease my dad and tell my father he moved into the Everglades. Now, you’re from Miami, so you know Northwest 7th Avenue used to be the edge of the Everglades. That’s what they used to say. So—so [laughs] they—sometimes I—some of my dad’s professional friends used to always tease him. “Why you moving out there in the Everglades?” And then, they eventually—they would come out because my dad would, uh, encourage them to come out and look at homes. In fact, um, in our community, we had some really outstanding people. And, um, one of these days, I’m going to write a book about it because I really honestly believe that in the number of people who, um, not only grew up in that community, they produced, um, uh, children who really professionally did very, very well. Um, from actors to, um, managers to—in fact, my, uh, doctor here in Orlando is—I grew up with him in—in Brown Sub. Didn’t know who he was until—when I moved here, you know, as CEO of the American Red Cross. And I’ll talk about my history in the Red Cross in a minute. But, um, there were a lot of professionals that lived in that community. So, we had some outstanding role models. As we saw, you know, teachers who used to buy new cars every year. I used to think that was kind of fascinating. Boy, you can buy a new car every year. And they used to always talk about our house because our house had a garage, which a lot of people didn’t. And we had two cars. And a lot people were like, “Wow. You have two cars [laughs]?” You know, so I used to get kind of ribbed about that quite a bit when I was in elementary school that, you know, you all drive. Your—your family’s got two cars. But my parents were both in their own business. And my mother’s real—um, beauty business was doing very well. She did—she did—she did hair. And, you know, a lot of Black folks used to come there and get their hair done. And so, she had a really thriving business. In fact, she did a lot better sometimes than my dad did because his business was, um, you know—real estate business can be off an on. So, it can be better and worse. And he owned his own firm. He wasn’t a—a member of the KAI Family or the—the Coldwell Banker as they are now. And those kinds of companies. But so, he had his own company. So, um, you know, he had to struggle sometimes in terms of trying to manage. But we—we were—we were blessed. We were truly blessed. We were a truly blessed family. And, unfortunately, going back to my grandfather, he died when I was eight years old. So, I didn’t really get to know him very, very well, unfortunately. Um, and I wish I had because I hear so many great stories about him. From his teaching to his—to his entrepreneurship. In fact, um, I used to have a good friend of mine who used to call the house and the area that he owned over town “the Hutcheson Compound” because it not only included that home, as I mentioned the rooming house with the family house on top, but it also included a mango grove on the side. So, it was large, large properties that he had there. My—my—my family's always been kind of entrepreneurial. I—I don't—I don’t know how I got just in social services and like [laughs]—but, uh—but, you know, they we—they were pretty entrepreneurial. Hutcheson So, anyway, um—so, my sister and I grew up in Brown Sub. And, um, we were pretty, um, blessed to be in that community, as I said, because that community, um, uh, had a lot of people who—who were very good at their professions. Um, the principal of my elementary school. Um, there was a—a very extraordinary, um, nursery school or, uh, daycare kind of program run by a woman by the name of Ida Jackson down the street a block from my house. And it was called Jackson Toddle Inn . And it was amazing. Mrs. Jackson, even—I didn't go there, but, uh, my sister did. And Miss Jackson had a very unique teaching style. She used to use a bolo bat, you know, that she used to—I don't know if you know what a bolo—you probably don't know what a bolo bat is, but it's a—it's a piece of wood with a string on it that's elastic. An elastic piece. And it has a ball on the end. So, you—so she used to take that apart and she would teach with it. So, she would hit on the side of her chair and she taught [taps table] John [taps table] and [taps table] Mary [taps table] said [taps table] go. You know? And that's the way she would teach. And it was interesting because most of the people came out of her school like my sister, who was extraordinary. Let me kind of share that story with you a little bit. Um, my sister went to, uh, Jackson Toddle Inn. And, um, once, um, she finished Jackson Toddle Inn, um, they used to have an entrance exam before you went into the public school system. But when my sister, uh, went in and took the examination, she, um, uh, had a, um—she—in other words, when they—they—they graded her. And when they graded her, it was at a sixth-grade level. So, they were—oh, you know, Black teachers in a segregated school system, they were like, oh we—oh, man, yes. We got to put this six-year-old in the sixth grade. And my father was, "Oh, no. That's not gonna happen. I'm not putting my daughter." And so, they went back and forth for a couple of weeks. And they finally decided to put her in the third grade. So, I have a sister who, um, like me, graduated from Bethune-Cookman , but she graduated, uh, from high school at 15, went through college in three years and graduated from college at Bethune-Cookman at 18. So [laughs]—so she was—she was always the smart one in the family [laughs], you know, like. So, anyway, um—but I—I'm very proud, as you can tell. I'm very, very proud of my family and the many things that we've accomplished. Um, my father went to Mrs. Bethune's school. And I want to—I'm going to switch to that. So, I'm kind of going back and forth a little bit. But it—let me go back because, you know, you—you may not be aware. Uh, growing up as a kid in the twenties, you could only go to eighth grade because that's the only—they stopped school for Black kids at eighth grade. So, my father comes out of the eight grade and, um, he—and, you know, he's—he's stuck. He wants—but his father doesn't want him—his father wants him to go on. And so, he enrolled in Mrs. Bethune's school. And, uh, Mrs. Bethune, um, used to spend a lot of time in and out of Miami recruiting students and the like. And so, he went to Mrs. Bethune's school. And in 1923, while she was—while he was at that school and it was just becoming co-educational because it originally started with five little girls and—and there was a bunch of girls that she taught. But she eventually, uh, developed a co-educational program. Well, he went there and he was on the first football team in 1923. And, by the way, that team is going to be inducted into—to the Bethune-Cookman Athletic Hall of Fame this weekend. So, I'm really excited about that. But that team, um—and it's so fascinating because here at UCF is where I did most of my research to find information on their archives here about the team. Uh, and I have some photographs of that—of the team as well. Uh, he was a running back and a defensive back. There were only 15 members of the team. So [laughs]—and he used to always say that Mrs. Bethune named them the Wildcats. And, um, she [laughs] actually many times would come out and—and be the assistant coach, uh, while [laughs]—while the team was being, um—while the team was practicing. Um, they used to travel around. They traveled to Miami. They traveled places in Alabama. Um, and—but Miss Bethune really had an outstanding program there as well. You know it’s Bethune-Cookman University now. And, of course, my sister and I ended up going there as well. Didn't plan to. Somehow that just happened. But my father used to talk about Miss Bethune so much. And she used to come by our house when she was in Miami, uh, because she loved my dad so much. Now, of course, I was a little kid. So, I only have just brief kind of glimpses of that. ‘Cause she died, I think, when I was about five or six years old. But she used to come by all the time and see my dad. Um, and so, uh, my dad is very, very fond of Miss Bethune, and Miss Bethune is very fond of him. Hutcheson Uh, one of the stories I'm going to tell, uh, about the power of Mary McLeod Bethune. I mean, I could sit here all day talk about Mary McLeoad Bethune. But one of the things that I am going to talk about this weekend as they go into—go into the Hall of Fame, and I'm probably one of the few children or grandchildren that they're able to find now. But, uh, my sister and I will be there and, um, one of the stories that's always so fascinating to me. You know, I came, um, through college during the Black power movement. You know, we were about Black power [laughs]. And so, this particular story always resonated with me. Because when my father used to tell me, I used to—oh gosh, I used to be so angry sometimes. Um, he, um, said they had to borrow a school bus in 1924, I think it was. So, you can imagine that must have been a little rickety bus and it only had a little one—one stop light. And they were driving through some dirt roads in Alabama going to play a game. They had been driving all night, and they got stopped by a sheriff dep—deputy. The sheriff deputy, as he came, uh, out of his car and, uh, he broke the light. And he went up and told the coach, who was driving the bus, "Do you know you have a broken light? You can't drive through our community, uh, with a broken light.” And, you know, some of the players tried to tell but they had to be quiet, you know, that—that light—he broke the light. But he said, “Okay.” Well, you have—there's—there's going to be a fine. You either have to pay the fine or all you guys—all you boys are going—boys are going to jail. Okay? So, unfortunately, the coach did not have any money. He actually made them follow him in and—and—and actually put the whole team in jail. So, somehow the coach was able to get like communications back to Mrs. Bethune and tell her what happened. Few hours later, the sheriff came and unlocked the jail cell and said, "Okay, you boys can get back in your—in—back in your bus now. Um, and I don't know who that Black woman is that, uh…” Probably called her something else. “Uh, Black woman is. Boy, she has to be mighty powerful if she gets you out of my jail.” And somehow she arranged to get them out so they could continue on their travels. Of course, um, he—even she evidently arranged for him because when they got back to the—to the vehicle, they found that the light was repaired. And the one light [laughs] was repaired. Again, I can tell you tons of stories about Mary McLeod Bethune. And my dad's experience. And being with her. And like she was a quite a powerful person in our history of the United States. She really was—has now what? Three statues around? Four statues. One in Lincoln Park in Washington DC run by the National Park Service. One at the US Capitol representing the State of Florida. That was done just recently. Um, last few years. Um, there's one in Daytona Beach, that's exact opp—um, the exact, uh, statue. The one in Lin—um, in, um, Daytona Beach is made out of bronze. But the one at the Capitol is made out of, um, [taps table] what is it, ivory? Yeah, I guess it is. Yeah. So, anyway, um—so, the same, um, sculpturer did both statues. And then, there's actually one on the campus of Bethune-Cookman. So, it's just a powerful, powerful person, you know, and—and the like. But kind of getting back to the family, um, my dad did well in real estate. In fact, um, he had a lot of very, very close friends in the Jewish community, um, that I think were very positive in helping him expand his businesses and help him, uh, grow his business, especially in real estate. In fact, he even owned some acreage down in the Everglades at one time called Dreamland Estates. He and Mr. Fuller. Mr. Fuller was one of his business partners, who was hi wo—a guy who was Jewish, who was in Miami Beach. And my father used to do business with him. And, uh, they had this property. And then, eventually the government came in and unfort—and—and fortunately bought it all up because they needed to put some new waterways through the Everglades and the like. So, they ended up buying it all. And so, that was quite profitable for—for Mr. Fuller and for my dad. And—and my dad took that opportunity to retire from his real estate business. And my mom did exactly the same thing. She retired from her be—beauty business. And, um, they were able to live a good life for a few years before my mom passed at an early age of 62, which is really unfortunate. But, um, uh, my dad went on and, um—and enjoyed the rest of his life. And—and I think he lived until 74. So, um, uh, I'm very proud of my parents. I—they—they did a really good job with us. Um, and one of the things I learned from my dad, and I guess he got it from his grandfather, was that Black people in this country can do anything. They want to do it, they can do anything. He told me, "Don't ever, ever let that, um—the fact that you're African-American or Black, we were called that, you know, the names have just changed over the years [laughs]. That you were Negro. That you were from colored to Negro to—to Black to African-American. Um, don't ever let the color of your skin hold you back. And so, I remember I used to swim competition in high school and college. And I went to Miami Jackson High School . You probably know Miami Jackson, uh, Senior High School. Well, when I went there, it was all white. There were a few Blacks who were there before us, but we became what they called “the big experiment” in Miami Day County in terms of school systems. So, they brought in this, uh, very experienced, uh, white principal. His name was Mr. Burroughs. I will never forget him because he was really a great man. Uh, and they, uh, brought in some special teachers and they even bought some teachers from my segregated junior high school to, um—to, uh, um, uh, work at Miami Jackson. To integrate fully Miami Jackson. They also brought some, um, students in from Dorsey Junior High School , which is in the Black community and kind of further northwest. They brought them in. And so, we were a part of this great experience. Um, the experience was really, uh, for the most part, very positive. But I remember my swim coach one day made the comment that Black men and Black girls don't swim as good as white women and white men because they're not as buoyant. They can't stay on top of the water. And I came home and told my dad that. He said, "What did he say? He told you that?" He said, "Sumner, don't you believe that." You know, we couldn't Google it [laughs]. So, he said, "Don't you ever believe anything like that. Okay?” That is the kind of thing that's always been something that has held African Americans back. Being told those kind—or Black people back. Um, and so the next day when we pulled up to Manor Park Pool, where we used to do our swim practice, my dad's car was sitting in the park. And I said, "Oh my God, I know this is going to be interesting." And so, my dad got out the car, and he told Mr. Helmers, who was the, um, swim coach, he said, "May I speak to you?" Uh, I know that my dad wore him out about telling us that story, okay? Because he came back as we were doing our warm-up practices. We just went in the pool inside just as he—because he—my dad kind of held him for a while. So, we just did our warm-ups and then he told us to come and sit down. And he said, "I made a statement yesterday to you all and Mr. Hutcheson came and—and—and talked to me about that. And I will never ever make that statement again ‘cause that is obviously something that I was told and I believed it. And it—it—it probably is not true.” ‘Cause my sister, now she was a really great swimmer. I was an average swimmer, but my sister was a great swimmer. She used to be in the county competitions and all of that. Uh, so, obviously, that was not at all true. But the problem was—is that many of the students, um, as soon as we, um—the school was integrated, they left the community. They—they went Coral Gables and Miami High and some other schools. They just—they—they took off, you know. So, I went into school when we were just a very small percentage in 10th grade at Miami Jackson. By the time I graduated, uh, we were the majority because many of the white students—but there also a lot of Latino students there. A lot of Cuban students. Primarily Cuban students who were there as well. So—and, uh, we—we all s—we got along. We had a good time. We used to have a lot of fun there and the like. And, um, I was really blessed because, um, I found out later in—in learning about my family history that my father grew up in the Latino community in Key West. You know, that community was primarily, uh, very mixed. You know, people used to go back and forth to Cuba and—and—and Tampa and the Bahamas. That used to be like the trading routes in the Americas, that part. And so, um, one day my father told us that he was going to be taking us with him back to Key West. We used to go to Key West all the time. I mean, we used to go Key West at least once a month ‘cause my dad love to fish. And my foo—my sister-in-law and I love to fish. So, we go down there all the time, too. But we, um, went to Key West. And he was telling us that he was going to get —try to find a birth certificate for his aunt because he—she wanted to send her children from Cuba where they live back to the United States. And, um, I mean it wasn't significant to me, you know. That was during the sixties and the Cuban Missile Crisis was going on. I remember one of our trips down to Key West. We were going down US1 and there were missile silos on the beaches off of the Keys. because, you know, they were really serious. That got to be a really big crisis with Cuba at the time. But anyway, so one of my cousins was able to come out of Cuba. And when she came to our home, we had to—she had to stay with us for two years because that's the requirement of, uh, Cuban-Americans coming to—I mean Cubans coming to the United States. And she does—she did not speak a word of English. Okay? So, we're sitting at the dinner table. I mean, we were very formal, my family, sitting at the table having breakfast one morning. And a parakeet is flying around ‘cause he—my daddy used to let him out and he would fly around [laughs] and then he would sit on his head. But my [laughs]—my cousin used to think that was so strange. So, she started talking to my father one morning in Spanish. And my father started telling us what she was saying [chair squeaks]. I was like, "Dad, you speak Spanish?" He said, "No, I don't speak it, but I understand it. Because I grew up in a home where I spoke Spanish until I was 12 years old.” When we moved back to Miami, my dad used to make me wear a, um, top hat. That's what he called it. Made me and—and he used to make me wear a top hat. And I only spoke Spanish in the house ‘cause my grandfather spoke it. Evidently, he learned it. My grandmother learned it and spoke it. But—and they all—‘cause they all grew up in Key West, where they had a lot of Hispanic families who were mixed and—and the like. C—couple my aunts married Hispanic, uh, Cuban men and moved to Cuba. And like—so I was just fascinated. I was like, ”You know how to speak Spanish?” I mean I just all these years. I'm—I'm in junior high school at this point or middle school what they call it now. And I can't believe that my dad knows how to speak Spanish [laughs]. So—but anyway, um, that was a—that was quite an experience as well growing up with Sonia. So, she started teaching us Spanish. I picked it up a little bit. I—I, um, I picked it up a little bit. And, in fact, my son—my son, Sumner Hutcheson IV, I made sure that when he was in school in Miami, he taught with Spanish every year. Now he speaks Spanish fluently. So, they just missed my generation. They—my dad spoke Spanish evidently. I don't speak it that well. I can even get by, you know [knocks table]? And my, um—and my—my son speaks Spanish, um, quite well. So, again, um, you know, the culture of living in Miami-Dade, as it is now, still is very multicultural. You got a lot of people from a lot of different countries. And—but it certainly is not the place I grew up. Miami was a big little town. That's what I used to call—big little—no. A t—a town that was—yeah. A big little town. I mean, it was just a very interesting place to grow up in Miami. And, um, Brown Sub was an exciting place. And so, I came through high school and I went to Miami-Dade Community College. Then went to Bethune-Cookman and—and I had a really good experience. I was a student government officer at, uh, Bethune-Cookman. I participated in a lot of different organizations and activities on campus. Had a really good time. And then, I went to graduate school at Barry University in—in Miami with a master's degree in—in social work administration. Uh, in between that time, I started working as an intern at the American Red Cross. Uh, uh, well, 35 years later, I retired from the American Red Cross as a senior executive. I was everything from, um, a Red Cross, um—I worked in Miami as the—the youth’s director and then I went—I moved to the American Red Cross in Washington DC. I was the disaster director in Washington DC. And then, uh, I ran one of our service centers, or branch offices, in Washington DC. And when a new executive CEO came in, he made me his assistant CEO in Washington DC. And so, I just kept moving up the ladder in—in the Red Cross. I eventually worked as the CEO of the American Red Cross in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, or the Susquehanna Valley area. Um, I was CEO there. Uh, I worked, actually, as, um—as the vice president they call the regional executive officer. So, I had responsibility for managing and over being responsible for, um, uh, rechartering Red Cross chapters and everywhere from New Jersey all the way to West Virginia. So, I—I could tell you that could—now that's another hour of conversation there because that was a very interesting community. C—different communities from flying into West Virginia on little puddle jumpers, as we used to call them, to being in New Jersey, where they were threatening my life because [laughs] we wanted to do something that we needed to do. Um, and, um—but I worked for Mrs. Dole. Uh, Elizabeth Dole. She was president at the time. And so, I had a very good experience working for her, too. That was really, um, an extraordinary experience. And then, I came here to Orlando to be the CEO of the American Red Cross in Central Florida. And, in fact, one of the better stories I have is that, um, Jacob Stewart at the time, who was over the, um, chamber here, asked me one day, "You think you could get Elizabeth to come down and do a presentation for us?" I said, "Sure." He used to have these monthly events. I said, "Sure." So, they announced that. You know, I called Elizabeth and asked her. W—she said, "Sure, I'll—I'll come down there. I—I'll be, um—I'll be happy to do that for you." And sh—he normally used to have it downtown, but the thing sold out so fast after they knew that Elizabeth was coming, that, um, they literally had to move it here on campus. They had it at the arena. So, the Elizabeth—the—and she used to do what I used to call the Dole stroll. She used to, um—used to have her mic on, but she used to walk around and she talked and the like. So, that was a—a really fascinating experience being escorted onto campus by the campus police and escorted to the airport [laughs] by the campus police, you know, who, you know—who took us with lights flashing and sirens going and the like. But they s—they sold out the arena as many seats that they could put in there, uh, with Elizabeth though. So, you know, I've had that—the Red Cross was that—was an outstanding experience for me. I had—I could talk about all the many things that happened with me and—and, uh, the American Red Cross. Um, uh, from, you know, being threatened by life in New Jersey to, um, going to, uh, West Virginia and, um—and—and people saying to me, “You're the new CEO RE—REO?” “Uh, yes. I'm the new REO here and—and—and yes, I'm here to work with you here in West Virginia [laughs].” Because you know those folk are not—they don't see a lot of Black folk in West Virginia. So, but I had outstanding—and I guess the best part of that is that I eventually decided, okay, it's time to retire. It's time to do something else. So, I went off and sold real estate for a little while. And all of a sudden, I get a phone call from the president of Bethune-Cookman University, Dr. Oswald Perry Bronson, Sr. I love that man. Um, he's now passed on. But he called me one day and said, “Sumner, I have a really major issue here at Bethune-Cookman. The Kresge Foundation has given us a significant amount of money to help us, um, grow our fundraising. And that's not what's happening. So, I need you to come and talk to me about how you can—because I know you used to raise money. And, in fact, we had a tornado here. I don't—you—I—you probably want to hear that was in the—that was right after I got here. So, it was the—the nineties tha—that killed 50 people in Orlando. And, uh, I had just become CEO here. And, um—and I raised—we raised—and I don't say I, but we raised—my board working with me and volunteers and the like, we raised something like $6 million in two weeks to support that, um, disaster relief operation. Mrs. Dole came down again during that time for me and—and helped me, um, because she wanted to see what I was doing, you know? She was the one who encouraged me to come to Florida ‘cause she said that when they had disasters here, nobody would ever really raise any money. So, Sumner, I need you to go down there and do that, you know? And so, she immediately—after she heard all the money we had raised, she came down and—and we went out to Kissimmee and places where really, um—and one of the things that was really fascinating that tornado, um, killed 50 people. And one of the really tragic stories I will never ever forget is a woman who came to Mrs. Dole and was telling her about how she heard this noise. She went to the door of her home with her baby and the baby was swept out her hands. Unfortunately, that baby was found in a tree about two days later dead. And she talked about some Mrs. Dole, who was a very, very religious person. She gathered everybody around her and they did a prayer for this woman and—and some other I was very touched by that, you know? By that particular experience. But, again, the Red Cross. I could—I—I—I can talk forever about my Red Cross experience. See, I'm not even letting you get to your questions, am I [laughs]? Cravero You've already—honestly, you’ve gotten through almost every one I was going to ask so [laughs]. Hutcheson [laughs] But then, um, I got a call one day back to Dr. Bronson at Bethune-Cookman. He said—I said, "Dr. Bronson, I do not want to work at Bethune-Cookman University." He says, "No." He said, "I just want you to come over here and talk to me." Well, Dr. Bronson was a very crafty person. And I see why he was such a good president. He was there almost 30 years. You know, presidents don't stay at universities that long. And so, he said to me, um, “I—I just want to get chance to talk to you.” Then, about an hour later, his secretary called me and said, "Mr. Hutcheson, uh, can you be here by 1:30?" I said, "It's 12:00. You know, it's going to take me an hour plus to get over there." She said, "Just put on a s—sports jacket and come on over." When I walked into the room, Dr. Bronson is there in the room with board members of the board of trustees [laughs] [taps table]. So, you know—and so I said, "Oh boy, I think I've been tricked” in my own head I'm taking—but I'm not going to let Dr. Bronson be humiliated or look bad. I want him to look really good in front of his board members. And so, they start interviewing me. They—they—they started interviewing me. Well, the president of the—chairman of the board at the time was the president, um, Stanley Marshall, I think his name. Yeah. He used to be president of FSU . He was also chairman of the board here. And I remember he got up and said, "You know, Dr. Marshall, I've got to catch my plane." After about 45 minutes of them interviewing me, he says, "Whatever you need to hear." I remember he came and touched my shoulders and he said—he was standing behind me. He said, "Whatever you need to do to get him here, you need to get him here as vice president." So anyway, the group broke up and Dr. Bronson said, "Well, come on with me to my office. I want to talk to you." And I was like, "Oh boy, here we go [claps hands] [laughs]." But he convinced me to make that hour and 15 minute drive from Ocoee, where I live, all the way to Daytona Beach every day. And, um, we had a very successful campaign there, um, in University Advancement. Uh, I actually, um, was able not only to meet the Kresge goals that they had given us, we actually got two major bonuses of $100,000 a piece, um, because the board had increased their giving significantly. I worked with the boards—my board representative to do that. And, you know—so we did some great things when I—when I was there. I—I loved—and then Dr. Bronson left. He retired and—and when the new president came in, I—I left. And as I was driving home that afternoon, my good friend, who was the CEO of the American Red Cross in Miami-Dade County, uh, Howard Lipman called me. He just happened to call me. You know, this is how God works. I'm driving my—feeling kind of good. Okay, I'm—I'm retired again. And—and Howard says, "What you doing?" I said, "You know, I'm driving home." He said, "Okay." He said, "Um." And so, we're just having general conversation. And I said, "By the way, I want you to know I left Bethune-Cookman. I—I resigned from Bethune-Cookman." He said, "Good." I said, "What do you mean by good?" He said, "You're going to come work with me at FIU ." I said, "Howard. I'm not coming all the way back." I said, "I don't want to live in Miami. I don't want to be in Miami." He says, "Well, again, come and just talk to me. Come and just talk to me." Well, long story short, I ended up working [laughs] at FIU as his associate vice president. And then soon after that, he left. And so, I was the acting, uh, interim pre—vice president for advancement for a while. And then, uh—then I left there and then took on one other assignment in Miami and that was at Florida Memorial University which is the HBCU down in Miami. So, I did that for a short time and then I retired retired at that point. I've done some consulting work. I, um, enjoyed my work in the University of Guyana in—in Georgetown, Guyana. I used to have fun going over there. Sometimes not so much fun because one day I drank the water. Boy, why do you do that, Sumner [laughs]? I was sick as a dog [laughs]. But—but I—I enjoy working with the—with the president of the University of Guyana, who I knew from FIU. Actually, I met him there, but he was, uh, Guy—Guyanese and he, uh, went back to be president of the University of Guyana. So, I worked with him there. Um, and I've worked with some other nonprofits and the like. And—and now, um, you know, I—I spend time primarily, uh, working with the Peace and Justice Institute here, where I chair the board. I—I chair the board and, um—and, unfortunately, with all the things going on with DEI throughout the country and the state of Florida, I got to be careful where I say this now, but, uh, it was a part of the Valencia College at one time. But things changed and so we had to come out and become our own 501c3. The Peace and Justice Institute. And so, working with Rachel Allen, who's an outstanding executive director, we have really built that program. And the program is still thriving in—in—in places where people still don't want to talk about diversity and inclusion and the like. But, um, we're still thriving. She's doing an excellent job and programming throughout the area has been recognized. She's been at the United Nations and done presentations and—and she's, uh, spent a lot of time in Sanford. They've had a lot of concerns over the many, many, um, uh, years since the Trayvon Martin situation. And so, it's, um, it's been—it's been pretty exciting, uh, that program and being chairman of the board. And growing the board. And growing the resources because now we got to raise money all the time. So, that's been a lot of fun doing that as well with Rachel. So, I am enjoying that very much. So, what else do you have? Anything else on that question list that you have for me that you wanted to make sure I tackled? Cravero Honestly, you got through pretty much every point I was going to ask about, um, including—I—I was waiting to hear about the Peace and Justice, but you got to that one, too. Hutcheson Yes. Mhmm. Cravero So, oh, um, I did have one actually… Hutcheson Okay. Cravero …note that I—I read somewhere. Did you end up meeting President Kennedy ? Hutcheson Yes. Cravero Will you tell us a little about that? Hutcheson Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Wow. You—you got a lot of information there [laughs]. Cravero [laughs]. Hutcheson Yes. Actually, the week he was killed, I met him. My father, um, was not only, um, good in business, he was good in politics, too. My father became one of the fir—I think the first A—African-American member, Black member, of the Democratic Executive Committee. So, you know, the Democratic Party in Miami-Dade County, he was on the executive committee. He had to be elected to that position and he was—and he was the first Black. So, when, um, President Kennedy came to my—he came to—he was killed on a Thursday. I will never forget this. He was killed. I was in junior high school. Uh, and he came to Miami on a Monday. The Monday before he was killed. And he landed at Miami International Airport . So, the Democratic Executive Committee was allowed to go and greet him on the tarmac. That shows you things have changed a lot, you know, with Secret Service and all of that. But they were there. But still, we were able to greet him. So, my father, not wanting us to ever miss an opportunity, took my sister and myself with us—with him and so—with him. And so, as Kennedy came down the plane, I remember him slowly coming down the plane—that, um—down the steps. And he, um—Air Force One. Uh, and then he greeted people. We were right in the line. So, we got to shake his hand as he went off and then he got, of course, into his car and left. But what they didn't tell you. I also miss—I met—I met President Johnson , too. So, I told you my father was very active in politics. So, he used to own a, um—when he was in his later years of his real estate business, he bought a, um, three storefront building in Liberty City. It was really Allapattah . Y—yeah. It wasn’t Liberty City because it was really Allapattah. So, one storefront was his real estate business. The middle storefront was my mother's, uh, beauty shop. And the third place on the corner was rented. He would rent it to different groups and places. But this particular time, a gentleman by the name of Charlie Hadley used to run with my dad. And Charlie was very, very prominent in Miami-Dade County and they started Operation Big Vote . So, they used to be there, uh, and would be on the phones with people making sure that they understood how—the importance of voting. And even before that, my daddy was also, uh, an officer in the Dade County Young Democratic Association. That was a Black organization. And so, they would often interview candidates who were running for office. And then they would rate them and put a big advertisement in the Miami Times , which is the Black newspaper in—in—in Miami-Dade. Still is Miami-Dade County. And they would put this whole big strip so that you could cut it out and take it with you and you’d know who to vote for. City commission or—or judge. And these people were not African Americans in most instances. Most time, they were white, but still my—because the group had interviewed them. But anyway, here it is. We had Operation Big Vote and I'm on the phones calling people asking them do they need ride, uh—rides to the poll. ‘Cause that's another thing that I used to do is after I got my, um, uh, regular license, I—I used to go pick up people and take them to the polls. So, I was there on the phone and all of a sudden, I guess my dad knew it, but I didn't. I was just on the phone. All these Secret Service people swept into the building. Okay? I was like, "What's going on here?" ‘Cause I didn't know who it was. But, you know, you can always tell they got these little things in their ears, you know, like well, what's going on here? And somebody I said, "Come on over here. Just come and stand right here." President Johnson and his—and his motorcade drove up to the building. He actually came inside, shook everybody's hand, congratulated them on their Operation Big Vote and, you know, encouraged them. He only stayed probably 15 minutes. 20 minutes at the most, probably. And then, he got back in his motorcade and—and left. So, I got to meet both Kennedy and Johnson probably within a year because, of course, you know, Johnson became president after Kennedy was killed. So, I got chance to meet both of them and—and—and that was, um—that was quite an opportunity. But the—you know, but as I went to Washington DC, I don't know if you know this, the president of the United States is always the honorary chairman of the board of the American Red Cross. And so, they used to always declare Red Cross Month. Okay? So, I got to shake Bill Clinton's hand when he was president. When I was living in DC and working at the Red Cross in DC. Uh, I got to shake Ronald Reagan's hand when he was chairman of the board—uh, honorary chair ‘cause they would always come, um, over to the Red Cross chapter rather than the Red Cross national headquarters because we had a big conference room that, you know, you could have people stand around and they could walk in with all the secret service and all that. I used to always tell people—I used to always be fascinated whenever you see all these people on polls, um, look like they're working on the telephone line or something. Those are Secret Service [laughs]. So, when—when you saw them start climbing these poles, you know something—you know, that things are happening. So, I got to shake Ronald Reagan's hand. I got to shake Bill Clinton's hand and in the receiving line and the like. And so, um—so I've had—I've had—I've had a few presidential touches, if you will [laughs]. So, in my lifetime, which is really good. And oh, no. I got another one, too. Um, George Bush . This the—the second George Bush. I was on the board of Seniors First here in Orlando. I don't even know if that agency still exists, but I was on the board. And George Bush came to visit Seniors First. And so, we were told as board members I—I have that picture too. Um, a—as board members, that you're going to be on the front line of the row of seats, okay? But you are not to move. You're not to—you stay still as President—as President Bush enters the place. Well, George Bush walks in the place and he's smiling and stuff and he's looking at me the whole time. Okay? I mean, literally, he's looking at me the whole time. And he walks right over to me. Well, I'm not going to sit there. Why? So, I actually stood up [laughs]. And secret service—I sort of started looking around. I stood up and shook his hand, gave him a little hug, and then he went down and—and—and greeted the others who were still sitting. But I wasn't, you know? I'm a man. I'm not going to sit down, you know [laughs]? So, I got—I got a chance to spend that little time with George Bush as well. Yeah. I had some good experiences in life. Like I said, I'm truly blessed. You know, I've had some really, really lifelong experiences. And I've been trying to encourage my son, who's Sumner Hutcheson IV, um— who just recently had to move down to, um, South Florida to spend time with his mother, who has dementia unfortunately. He—he lived in Atlanta for a number of years. Couldn't get him to go to Bethune-Cookman. He went to—he's a Morehouse man. And so, he went to Morehouse. And then he went to Barry University as I did. But the day he graduated, he went right [taps table] back to Atlanta. And he stayed there until just recently, when he's moved back at the age of—how old is my son now? 51. Oh, gosh. He has a birthday coming up this week. I just thought about that [taps table]. 52, I guess he'll be this week. Uh, but, you know, I've tried to get him involved, but he's not. He says, "No, Dad." I just—I love admiring what you've done in life [laughs]. I don't need to have, um—have those kinds of experiences as well. So, yeah. So, I—yeah. I've touched a few presidents in the—in the United States. Not all of them, but I've touched a few. There's some who I wouldn't want to touch, but that's a whole ‘nother[sic] story [laughs]. But—but, um yeah, but I've had that experience especially because of the Red Cross, too, and—and some we—some things that we've done. In fact, let me tell you how—how—how much influence, um, after Elizabeth Dole left the Red Cross to run for the Senate. You remember she was a senator at one time. Uh, we had a—a president by the name of Bernadine Healy , who became president. She's unfortunately has transitioned at this point. But Bernardine wanted to come down to visit me here in Orlando. They always love coming to Orlando. So—and so, when she got here, you know, I worked with her for a couple of days. And, um—and then she, um, said to me, she says, "Senator, my staff tells me you went to Bethune-Cookman." I said, "Yes." She said, "Well, you know, Mary McLeod Bethune had a lot to do with the American Red Cross." I said, "I know.” She founded the American Red Cross chapter in Daytona Beach, Florida. She actually was on the first Negro advisory committee to the National Red Cross. along with Charles Drew and some others. And she was one of the people who insisted on that committee that they stop separating blood. They used to actually put blood after they took it out of human beings. Black blood, white blood, and used Black blood on Black people, white blood on white people. She made them put it all in the same case so they wouldn't be—she got a lot of push back. Of course, the Red Cross got a lot of push back, too. ‘Cause they were like, "Wait a minute. You used to send us separate bags. Now you're sending us, you know, this one bag. And now we got to figure it out.” Well, you don't have to figure it out. You all—you concerned about is what type it is. Is it O? Is it C? You know, whatever. What it—what is it the type that's needed to be transfused into—into human beings? So, I said, “Absolutely.” She said, um—she said to me—she said, "Son, you know, I have a flight at 5:00." I remember she looked at her watch and said, "I have a flight at 5:00 and it's 10. Is there any way that we could make it to Daytona and back and so I could visit Mary McLeod Bethune's home ?” You know, Mary McLeod Bethune's home is on campus and it's actually on Trip Advisor. If you go to Trip Advisor, it's the number one attraction, not the Speedway . It's the number one attraction in Daytona Beach. Uh, and a lot of people go in there ‘cause they left the house exactly at—after she died with all her memorabilia and everything. And they've had to—in fact, just recently they reopened it again after they've had to many times refurbish it. Because, you know, I mean it's old. So, it's had. But they did a major refurbishment just recently and reopened it. So—so, um, they, um—I said h—I said, “Bernardine, that is tough.” I said, “Because you never know what this traffic is going to be like on I-4 out here.” And, like I said, “but, give me—give me a few minutes.” So, I went in my office and I started thinking. I called my secretary and I said, "How can we get Bernardine in there and back? Ah. Let me call Sheriff”—um, what was his name? It’s Sheriff Mina now. But what I can't remember. There used to be a sheriff in—in—in—in Orange County. He ain’t[sic] have no neck. I remember [laughs] he—he—what was his name? I can't think of his name. Anyway, you know, because I‘d worked with the Red Cross and had a lot of interaction with the sheriff's department and him [sniffs], I called him. I said, you know, I'm going to [inaudible], “Sheriff, uh, the President of the American Red Cross is here, and I need to get her to Daytona Beach and back before 5:00 so she can catch her flight out of here at the airport.” He said, "Give me ten minutes. I'll call you back." He called back. He said, "Okay, meet me at the—we’ll meet you—meet you—the three of you—the two of you meet me at, uh—meet my helicopter at the International Air, um—the Executive Airport . The Executive Airport. And we're going to fly over." She get—so, I called Dr. Bronson—my good friend Dr. Bronson. Before I used to work there, you know, he's president. He's my alma mater president. “Dr. Bronson. Um, we will be coming to Daytona Beach. Um, the—the pilot tells me we're going to need to land on the football field. So, I need you to be there to greet Dr. Healey.” And he was standing there all proud with a couple of his, um, vice-presidents waiting with him. And they were sitting there and the helicopter landed. So, the three of—the two of us got out[sic] the helicopter and Dr. Bronson leaned over. He said, "How did you get—how did you get this done? How'd you get this done?” The helicopter stayed on the field. We went and visited, uh, the Mary McLeod Bethune House. Dr. Healey was so impressed by the fact that, you know, she started the first hospital for African Americans, not just a school. She started a hospital for African Americans in Daytona Beach. She founded the Red Cross chapter. She was on the first Negro—Negro, uh, committee for the Red Cross, if you will. Advisory committee for the Red Cross. You know? All of that. She learned so much that day. We used to have a very large national convention. They don't do it anymore because it got to be too costly, but we sometimes will have 10,000 people at a convention. Well, the convention following that particular visit, which was only about a couple of months later, she opened up her presentation by introducing the mother of the Red Cross. And she had this huge picture. Well, you know, she was on the screen. They were on screens. Huge screen—on the screen. She had Mary McLeod Bethune. This is the mother of the American Red Cross. And I want you to understand why. And so, she went through all the history of why Mary McLeod Bethune and all the stuff—the things that she had done with the American Red Cross and all the things she had done in politics and the like. So, that was really exciting to be able to see that. I was so proud of that, you know? Being able to—and then, um, I had one of my staff members come over and pick me up because he had to fly her back to the airport airport, um, to, um—or, um, to MCO so that she could, uh, fly out on the plane. So, one of my staff members came and got me and we drove back to [laughs] to Daytona—I mean drove back to Orlando [laughs]. Yes. But that was an exciting trip, too. Yeah. So, that's my—that's my touches with presidents. And—and some folk who have really made a significant difference I think in my life. Certainly in my experience. And I—and I really appreciate all of it. Cravero Mr. Hutcheson, thank you so much for sharing your time and speaking with us. Um, we answered all the questions I had for you. Hutcheson Mhmm. Cravero Is there anything else you'd like to ex—expand on or add? Do you have any final thoughts for us before we wrap up? Hutcheson Well, um, since this might be a reel that, um—that one day someone else will see, I'll say to my son, Sumner Hutcheson IV, “See? I did it.” He always used to say to me, “I—either you need to write a book, or you need to do a video on the family.” You know? And there are many other things about the family I'm sure I missed in the process. I should have maybe brought a list myself of some things but—but quite honestly the pride is there. Um, we've[sic] always were told to be very prideful. People always wonder. They always still say to me, “Sumner, you used to walk in a room and the whole room would stop at the Red Cross.” That's what they said. Like it appeared—it felt like the whole room would stop. I said, “Because my father told us you walk with your shoulders back. You stand up straight.” And I still try to do it even though I'm getting so old now. Older. I, you know—as you get older sometimes you start leaning. But, um, uh—but, um, try to still do that. I think that's very, very important that there are so many very positive stories. Um, I will tell you just go—I'm—I'm going to go back to Brownsville again. Um, so I have my doctor [knocks table], who grew up two blocks from me. His parents were teachers and principals in the Dade County school system. I have, um, unfortunately, Emmett, um, Williams, who just passed about two or three months ago. He was actually a professional, uh—I think he did promotion of actors because he lived in New York and did that very, very well. Um, uh, we've got, uh, people who've grown, um—some of my friends, who were, um—one of my other friends teaches at Prairie View as a—as a—as a nursing—over the nursing department. Prairie View in Texas. Uh, I mean I can just go on and on with that list. I got a friend by the name of Milton Vickers , who, uh, we used to ride the streets with. And, um, on our bicycles. And, uh, he's done a lot of things in his own business and also for Miami-Dade County, working in the county over there. So, I mean those stories go on and on. And we’ve got so many people in that community that—who have done extraordinary things. And, um—and Brownsville needs to be recognized as that [claps hands]. It, um—it produced some extraordinary individuals. And I—I'm a little humble. I don't usually get chance to talk about myself very much, but [taps chest three times] I'm blessed [laughs]. So, thank you very much. Cravero This has been Geoffrey Cravero with Sumner Hutchinson at the University of Central Florida on September 15th, 2025. African American history American Red Cross Barry University Bernadine Patricia Healy Bethune-Cookman University Brown Sub Brownsville Cuban Americans Cuban Missile Crisis de-segregation discrimination Florida International University football George Walker Bush Good Bread Alley Hutcheson Home Appliance Store integration Jackson's Toddle Inn John Fitzgerald Kennedy Key West, Florida Latino community Lyndon Baines Johnson Marcus Mosiah Garvey Jr Mary Elizabeth Alexander Dole Mary McLeod Bethune Mary McLeod Bethune Home Miami Jackson High School Miami-Dade County Miami, Florida Operation Big Vote Overtown, Florida Peace and Justice Institute segregation Sumner Hutcherson III Sumner Hutcheson Sumner Hutcheson IV Sumner Hutcheson Jr swim team https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b4edc627728447b550bf74ee32198db7.pdf 943053d30ddc5022f6a70508178ca0ea Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Postcard Collection Alternative Title Postcard Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Description Collection of postcards from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Physical Dimensions 5.5 x 3.5 inch Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Ave. Looking North Postcard Alternative Title Orange Ave. Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Postcards--Florida Shops Stores, Retail--United States Buildings--Florida Description Postcard showing a bird's eye view of Orange Avenue in Orlando, Florida. The cross street in the foreground is Church Street. On the west side of Orange Avenue at the corner of Church Street is the First National Bank Building, located at 190 South Orange Avenue. The bank was constructed between 1929-1930 and designed by Howard M. Reynolds in an Egyptian Revival style, covered in terra cotta with Art Deco-style false columns designed to look like sheaves of wheat. The building cost $300,000 to construct and opened on March 24, 1930.From 1929 to 1960, the building was occupied by the bank. Starting in the mid 1980s, it became Valencia Community College's Downtown Campus. On the east side of the street is the Woolworth Building at 101 South Orange Avenue. Constructed in 1924, the building was built for $100,000 by Franklin J. Mason and was opened in July 1924. The building was occupied by the Woolworth Store from 1924 until 1989, and then by Terror on Church Street, a Haunted House attraction, in the 1990s. This block, which includes the McCrory's Store, was demolished in January 2004. The Woolworth Store replaced the Guernsey Hardware building at 101 South Orange, which was constructed circa 1881 and demolished in 1924. Guernsey Hardware as originally the Cassius A. Boone Hardware Store. Boone operated his hardware store along with his partner, William A. Patrick. In 1895, the building and the stock was purchased by Joseph L. Guernsey. Boone chose to go into the citrus industry instead of running a store. Guernsey Hardware operated in the store until 1922. Creator Genuine Curteich-Chicago Source Original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher Orange News Company Date Created ca. 1930 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Private Collection of Thomas Cook. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format application/pdf Extent 617 KB Medium 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orlando, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.540549, -81.379251 28.541834, -81.37915 Temporal Coverage 1930-01-01/1930-12-31 Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Visual Arts Teacher Provenance Originally created by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and published by the Oranges News Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cook, Thomas Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Dickinson, Joy Wallace. A Guide to Historic Orlando. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a> Transcript 0-16--Orange Ave. Looking North, Orlando, Fla. "The City Beautiful" Orlando, located in the heart of the Florida peninsula, is the largest inland city in the state. Scores of sports, excellent theatres, stylish shops are offered in this progressive, modern and healthful resort. ORANGE NEWS CO., ORLANDO, FLA. GENUINE CURTEICH-CHICAGO "C.T. ART-COLORTONE" POST CARD (REG.U.S. PAT. OFF.) POST CARD PLACE ONE CENT STAMP HERE Date Copyrighted ca. 1930 Date Issued ca. 1930 Contributor Cook, Thomas C. T. Art-Colortone Cassius A. Boone Hardware Store Church Street First National Bank Building Genuine Curteich-Chicago Guernsey Hardware McCrory's Store Orange Avenue Orange News Company Terror on Church Street The City Beautiful Valencia Community College Woolworth Store https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/35ae6276a5efc8338bc67f30b9863d39.pdf 3c88918604bfe8702bf317800d45683a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Postcard Collection Alternative Title Postcard Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Description Collection of postcards from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Physical Dimensions 5.5 x 3.5 inch Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Ave. Looking North, Orlando, Fla. Postcard Alternative Title Orange Ave. Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Postcards--Florida Hotels--Florida Buildings--Florida Source Original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago, 1944: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Date Created 1944 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago, 1944: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Private Collection of Thomas Cook. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format application/pdf Extent 751 KB Medium 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orlando, Florida Brookfield, Massachusetts Spatial Coverage 28.54331, -81.378986 28.542859, -81.378798 28.54279, -81.379072 42.214279, -72.102299 Temporal Coverage 1944-01-01/1944-11-24 Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Visual Arts Teacher Provenance Originally created by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and published by the Oranges News Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cook, Thomas Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. Lost Orlando. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012 Dickinson, Joy Wallace. A Guide to Historic Orlando. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003 "Central Florida GLBT Timeline." GLBT History Museum. http://glbthistorymuseum.com/joomla15/index.php?option=com_chronoconnectivity&Itemid=62. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a> "<a href="http://glbthistorymuseum.com/joomla15/index.php?option=com_chronoconnectivity&Itemid=62" target="_blank">Central Florida GLBT Timeline</a>" Transcript O-30--Orange Ave. Looking north, Orlando, Fla. "The City Beautiful" POST CARD Rec'd Nov. 24 Mr + Mrs. Oscar Perkins Brookfield, Mass Fort Hill Farm 2612 San. Ave. Orlando Ave. Nov. 21, 1944 Please don't faint. Lip[?] has actually taken a vacation arrived at house seven O'clock yesterday morning been to Lake Ivanhoe + at Lake Eola writing now. Lot[?] Love ALice + Lip[?] Description Postcard showing Orange Avenue in Orlando, Florida. The Rutland Building, located at 63 North Orange Avenue, can be seen in the foreground. The original two-story structure was designed by F. Earl Deloe in the Art Moderne-style for Joseph Rutland's menswear store in 1941. In 1952, three additional stories were added. Rutland's closed its downtown store in the late 1960s, but remained open in the Colonial Plaza Shopping Center. Behind Rutland's is the Angebilt Hotel, located at 37 N. Orange. The building was constructed between 1921-1923. Plans to build the hotel were announced in June 1921 and construction cost $1 million. The Angebilt Hotel opened on March 14, 1923. The original owner was Joseph Fenner Ange, who moved to Orlando in 1913 from Martin County, North Carolina. Two months after the building's opening, Ange sold his interest in the hotel. In November 1924, a group of Orlando businessmen purchased the hotel for $1.25 million. Florida's first registered architect, Murray S. King, designed the building in the twentieth century commercial style, complete with eleven stories and 240 hotel rooms. Since its opening, the building has housed the Angebilt Hotel, the Bank of Orange and Trust Company, and the offices for two radio stations including WDBO ("Way Down By Orlando"), which was the first regular radio station in Orlando. As of 2010, it also is occupied by business offices and two restaurants. Across the street is the San Juan de Ulloa Hotel, located at 32 North Orange Avenue in Orlando, Florida. The hotel was constructed from 1885 to 1886 by Captain C. E. Pierce at an initial cost of $150,000. The original owner was Henry S. Kedney, who moved from Minnesota to Maitland in 1870 and then to Orlando in 1885. The initial building was a three-story, wood-framed building topped with a dome. In 1887, Harry L. Beeman moved to Orlando and bought the San Juan Hotel. He added two stories and a new addition for $500,000 around 1900. In 1903, Beeman added a veranda on the north side. In 1914, Henry Green took charge of $20,000 in alterations, including the addition of a laundry room, twelve private baths, and the conversion of the barbershop into a café. In the spring of 1922, Turner Construction Company added an additional eight stories at a cost of $357,000. In May 1928, there was a plan to spend $150,000 to rebuild it along modern lines but it is not known if this was carried out or to what extent. From 1890 to 1900, it housed Orlando's Post Office. The hotel also housed a series of services for hotel guests and Orlando residents alike. Among these were several restaurants, a barbershop, and a laundry. The San Juan was the main focal point for activity in Orlando in the early years. The San Juan hit hard times in the 1960s and was re-opened as the Grand Central Hotel, which opened on October 6, 1978. The Grand Central served a gay clientele, featuring several themed bars and lounges. In 1979, the hotel was destroyed by fire. The building was eventually demolished in 1981. The current use of site is a business office originally known as the First Union Bank Tower. It is a sixteen-story, 300,000-square foot building, completed in 1983. Date Copyrighted 1944 Date Issued 1944-11-21 Contributor Cook, Thomas Angebilt Hotel Beeman, Harry L. First Union Bank Tower Fort Hill Harm Green, Henry Kedney, Henry S. Lake Eola Lake Ivanhoe Orange Avenue Orlando Post Office Perkins, Oscar Pierce, C.E. Rutland's Rutland's Building San Juan de Ulloa Hotel San Juan Hotel The City Beautiful Turner Construction Company https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/ed1b974cf299172a0da9436d3d795a52.jpg fc7b00d58954acdb0842dfc77fdbb0de Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color digital image Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue and Central Boulevard, 2001 Alternative Title Orange Avenue and Central Boulevard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Streets--Florida Roads--Florida Banks and banking--Florida Bus stops--United States Description The intersection of Orange Avenue and Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando in 2001, Florida. The SunTrust Center can be seen on the left and a Lynx bus stop can be seen on the right. The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street in Orlando, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as Church Street Station. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color digital image by Thomas Cook, 2001: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2001 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 130 KB Medium 1 color digital image Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orange Avenue and Central Boulevar, Downtown Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Transcript SunTrust Center SUNTRUST Drive In Tellers Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook bank bus bus stop Central Boulevard Cook, Thomas Downtown Orlando Lynx Orange Avenue orlando road street SunTrust Center https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c7eb3fcd99505b9f34490208de5a6548.jpg 66e85da6a32e9a635230ac3dd6cdca9e https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/7746a5a0b463812e252159aeb7449577.jpg 89a4cade174fc735a71e2017c98871b3 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0dca0e77a8f592245ba60c4437ca0732.jpg e929ad6e48cb365a28af1b9b0c2d07cb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 3 color digital images Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue Holiday Star, 2003 Alternative Title Orange Ave. Holiday Star Subject Orlando (Fla.) Christmas--Florida Description The holiday star located at the intersection of Central Boulevard and Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida, in 2003. The holiday star tradition was started in 1955 by two department stores: Ivey's and Dickson & Ives. The stores hung a large gold-colored star from the southwest corner of Central Boulevard and Orange Avenue to the southeast corner. Wilson Reed, owner of Dickson & Ives at the time, is credited with the idea. The star used since 1984, which can be seen in this image, measured 13 feet in diameter and weighed over 500 pounds. In 2005, the original was replaced by a more ornate star. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color digital images by Thomas Cook, 2003: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2003 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 249 KB 253 KB 202 KB Medium 3 color digital images Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orange Avenue and Central Boulevar, Downtown Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Dickinson, Joy Wallace. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-11-28/news/os-dickinson-florida-history-112810_1_peggy-reed-mann-orlando-proclamation-orlando-history" target="_blank">Orlando History Shines in Orange Avenue Christmas Star</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, November 28, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-11-28/news/os-dickinson-florida-history-112810_1_peggy-reed-mann-orlando-proclamation-orlando-history. Transcript Central Bv Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Central Boulevard Christmas Cook, Thomas Dickson & Ives Downtown Orlando Ivey's Orange Avenue Orange Avenue Holiday Star orlando Reed, Wilson Star https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/568468fe95377de2b3ab8f6675e15e04.jpg 9a0bd291db5e40dfa0ebcf09c9d6e484 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/4dfb50e787a77d02fee4295ae5ea6d20.JPG 2aa1542cac377bc186e14e93aa88c317 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 2 color digital images Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue Holiday Star, 2007 Alternative Title Orange Avenue Holiday Star Subject Orlando (Fla.) Christmas--Florida Description The holiday star located at the intersection of Central Boulevard and Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida, in 2007. The holiday star tradition was started in 1955 by two department stores: Ivey's and Dickson & Ives. The stores hung a large gold-colored star from the southwest corner of Central Boulevard and Orange Avenue to the southeast corner. Wilson Reed, owner of Dickson & Ives at the time, is credited with the idea. The star used since 1984 measured 13 feet in diameter and weighed over 500 pounds. In 2005, the original was replaced by a more ornate star, which can be seen in this image. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color digital images by Thomas Cook, 2007: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2007 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 954 KB 640 KB Medium 2 color digital images Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orange Avenue and Central Boulevar, Downtown Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Dickinson, Joy Wallace. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-11-28/news/os-dickinson-florida-history-112810_1_peggy-reed-mann-orlando-proclamation-orlando-history" target="_blank">Orlando History Shines in Orange Avenue Christmas Star</a>."The Orlando Sentinel, November 28, 2010. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-11-28/news/os-dickinson-florida-history-112810_1_peggy-reed-mann-orlando-proclamation-orlando-history. Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Central Boulevard Christmas Cook, Thomas Dickson & Ives Downtown Orlando Ivey's Orange Avenue Orange Avenue Holiday Star orlando Reed, Wilson Star https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/d35115b00ccfac8d27b2a926c6736d54.jpg a0f75a091e4e141cdf9824b598ea0538 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/2b82a6c365fc7713363accb7e320ea48.JPG b454f23da3f73872fe69b451170cab6b https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/7ddcfc3d340fa0ed1abde27a07d56710.JPG 2a1e5a300d5421cae278e14897f3146e https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/3d0ba1560e611094eb98896383afa232.JPG b356c75f60821fd25b6c8865516a469b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 4 color digital images Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue Plaza Construction Alternative Title Orange Ave. Plaza Construction Subject Orlando (Fla.) Buildings--Florida Description Construction at the Orange Avenue Plaza Downtown Orlando, Florida, in 2007. The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center Orlando (NTC Orlando) in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as Church Street Station. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color digital images by Thomas Cook, 2007: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2007 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 638 KB 633 KB 660 KB 617 KB Medium 4 color digital images Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orange Avenue Plaza, Downtown Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook construction Cook, Thomas Downtown Orlando Orange Avenue Orange Avenue Plaza orlando https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e49343e312bf07246765d32f61879eb1.pdf c879f41229eb16cfd70194e571dfe2c0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Postcard Collection Alternative Title Postcard Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Description Collection of postcards from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Physical Dimensions 5.5 x 3.5 inch Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue Postcard Alternative Title Orange Ave. Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Postcards--Florida Shops Stores, Retail--United States Buildings--Florida Description Postcard showing a bird's eye view of Orange Avenue in Orlando, Florida. The cross street in the foreground is Church Street. On the west side of Orange Avenue at the corner of Church Street is the First National Bank Building, located at 190 South Orange Avenue. The bank was constructed between 1929-1930 and designed by Howard M. Reynolds in an Egyptian Revival style, covered in terra cotta with Art Deco-style false columns designed to look like sheaves of wheat. The building cost $300,000 to construct and opened on March 24, 1930.From 1929 to 1960, the building was occupied by the bank. Starting in the mid 1980s, it became Valencia Community College's Downtown Campus. On the east side of the street is the Woolworth Building at 135-141 South Orange Avenue. Constructed in 1924, the building was built for $100,000 by Franklin J. Mason and was opened in July 1924. The building was occupied by the Woolworth Store from 1924 until 1989, and then by Terror on Church Street, a Haunted House attraction, in the 1990s. This block, which includes the McCrory's Store, was demolished in January 2004. The Woolworth Store replaced the Guernsey Hardware building at 135-141 South Orange, which was constructed circa 1881 and demolished in 1924. Guernsey Hardware as originally the Cassius A. Boone Hardware Store. Boone operated his hardware store along with his partner, William A. Patrick. In 1895, the building and the stock was purchased by Joseph L. Guernsey. Boone chose to go into the citrus industry instead of running a store. Guernsey Hardware operated in the store until 1922. Creator Genuine Curteich-Chicago Source Original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago, 1951: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher Orange News Company Date Created 1951 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard by Genuine Curteich-Chicago: Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Private Collection of Thomas Cook. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format application/pdf Extent 784 KB Medium 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orlando, Florida Fair Oaks, Pennsylvania Spatial Coverage 28.540549, -81.379251 28.541834, -81.37915 40.585417, -80.209435 Temporal Coverage 1951-01-01/1951-12-29 Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Visual Arts Teacher Provenance Originally created by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and published by the Oranges News Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Genuine Curteich-Chicago and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cook, Thomas Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Dickinson, Joy Wallace. A Guide to Historic Orlando. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a> Transcript O-7--Orange Avenue, Orlando, Fla. "The City Beautiful" POST CARD Mrs Caroline Tennant, 154 Orchard St. Fair Oaks, Pa. 12/28/51. Hello Mrs T. We live at the end of this street we go up this way everyday. Rec'd your post card. Mrs. Trondle[?] told us she expected to come to Fla. Xmas day here was as hot as the 4th of July. No one wore coats while you folks are freezing. Heard you have [?] Mrs. Srager[?] expects to come soon. I wish you would come too. This is a lovely spot. Write and tell me the news. Lillian Date Copyrighted 1951 Date Issued 1951-12-29 Contributor Cook, Thomas Cassius A. Boone Hardware Store Church Street Fair Oaks First National Bank Building Genuine Curteich-Chicago Guernsey Hardware McCrory's Store Orange Avenue Orange News Company Orchard Street Srager Tennant, Caroline Terror on Church Street Trondle Valencia Community College Woolworth Store https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/20983a8f78934eeede1443c5f7ee56b1.jpg f2e7582ef81791ab68165c15b563dff4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Daytona Beach Collection Alternative Title Daytona Collection Subject Daytona Beach (Fla.) Description Daytona Beach was originally inhabited by the Timucua before the arrival of Spaniards in 1513. After the Timucua were virtually exterminated following contact with Europeans, the area was frequented by Seminoles from Georgia and Alabama, up until the Second Seminole War. During British occupation of Florida (1763-1783), King's Road was built, extending from St. Augustine, passing through Daytona, and ending in New Smyrna Beach. After the American Revolutionary War (1775–1783), Spain regained Florida, and, in 1804, Samuel Williams was granted 3,000 acres of land in Daytona from the Spanish Crown. Williams established a cotton, rice, and sugarcane plantation. During the Second Seminole War, Seminoles razed the plantation, while Williams' son, Samuel Hill Williams, fled. In 1871, Mathias Day, Jr., a migrant from Mansfield, Ohio, purchased a large tract of land along the west bank of the Halifax River, which included the former Williams Plantation. With the construction of Day's hotel, today's Daytona Beach Historic District was created. In 1876, residents named the city "Daytona," in honor of Day, when the area was incorporated as a town. Growth continued in 1886 when the St. Johns & Halifax River Railway extended to Daytona. In 1926, the towns of Daytona, Daytona Beach, Kingston, and Seabreeze merged together as Daytona Beach, in an effort led by J. B. Kahn. By this time, the beach had been nicknamed "The World's Most Famous Beach." Automobile and motorcycle races began in 1902, due to the smooth, compacted sand that covered the beach. Daytona Beach became the site of various land speed record attempts. On March 8, 1836, the first stock car race was held at the Daytona Beach Road Course, which is located in present-day Ponce Inlet. William France, Sr. and the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) established the Daytona International Speedway in 1958 to replace the beach course. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/75" target="_blank">Volusia County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Daytona Beach, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Contributor Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Ray <a href="http://www.cookman.edu/about_BCU/history/index.html" target="_blank">Mary McLeod Bethune Foundation</a> Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/76" target="_blank">Mary McLeod Bethune Foundation Collection</a>, Daytona Beach Collection, Volusia County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference "<a href="http://www.daytonabeach.com/resources/history/" target="_blank">Local History</a>." Daytona Beach. http://www.daytonabeach.com/resources/history/. Cardwell, Harold D., and Priscilla D. Cardwell. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/57383041" target="_blank">Historic Daytona Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2004. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue, Daytona Alternative Title Orange Avenue, Daytona Postcard Subject Daytona (Fla.) Description A postcard featuring a horse and buggy on Orange Avenue in Daytona, Florida, around 1910. Palm fronds, live oaks, and electric power lines line both sides of the street. In 1871, Mathias Day, Jr. (1824-1904), a migrant from Mansfield, Ohio, purchased a large tract of land along the west bank of the Halifax River, which included the former Williams Plantation. With the construction of Day's hotel, today's Daytona Beach Historic District was created. In 1876, residents named the city "Daytona," in honor of Day, when the area was incorporated as a town. Growth continued in 1886 when the St. Johns & Halifax River Railway extended to Daytona. In 1926, the towns of Daytona, Daytona Beach, Kingston, and Seabreeze merged together as Daytona Beach, in an effort led by J. B. Kahn. By this time, the beach had been nicknamed "The World's Most Famous Beach." Automobile and motorcycle races began in 1902, due to the smooth, compacted sand that covered the beach. Daytona Beach became the site of various land speed record attempts. On March 8, 1836, the first stock car race was held at the Daytona Beach Road Course, which is located in present-day Ponce Inlet. Bill France, Sr. (1909-1992) and the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) established the Daytona International Speedway in 1958 to replace the beach course. Abstract Unused color postcard of horse and buggy on Orange Avenue, Daytona, Florida. There are palm fronds, live oaks, and electric power lines on either side of the street. "Daytona, Florida. Orange Avenue. Hardly a thousand miles from Greater New York one may find the most delicate and delightful tropical scenery and may dwell in a climate which neither Hawaii nor southern Italy can excel. The name 'The American Riviera' is often applied to the Florida East Coast." - back of postcard. Type Still Image Source Original 8 centimeter x 12 centimeter color postcard: "Daytona, Florida, Orange Avenue." The Hugh C. Leighton Company, Portland, Maine: accession number 1057, Stetson University Postcard Collection, <a href="https://www2.stetson.edu/library/about-us/special-collections/" target="_blank">Archive and Special Collections</a>, duPont-Ball Library, Stetson University, DeLand, Florida. Is Part Of Stetson University Postcard Collection, <a href="https://www2.stetson.edu/library/about-us/special-collections/" target="_blank">Archive and Special Collections</a>, duPont-Ball Library, Stetson University, DeLand, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Daytona Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original 8 centimeter x 12 centimeter color postcard: "Daytona, Florida, Orange Avenue." The Hugh C. Leighton Company, Portland, Maine. Has Format Digital reproduction of original 8 centimeter x 12 centimeter color postcard: "<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/ref/collection/CFM/id/59383" target="_blank">Daytona, Florida, Orange Avenue</a>." The Hugh C. Leighton Company, Portland, Maine: Tag number DP0000102. Central Florida Memory. Coverage Orange Avenue, Daytona, Florida Publisher The Hugh C. Leighton Company Date Created ca. 1910 Date Copyrighted ca. 1910 Format image/jpg Extent 172 KB Medium 8 centimeter x 12 centimeter color postcard Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally published by the Hugh C. Leighton Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www2.stetson.edu/library/about-us/special-collections/" target="_blank">Stetson University, duPont-Ball Library, Archive and Special Collections</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://www.cfmemory.org/" target="_blank">Central Florida Memory</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="https://www2.stetson.edu/library/about-us/special-collections/" target="_blank">Stetson University, Archive and Special Collections</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.daytonabeach.com/resources/history/" target="_blank">Local History</a>." Daytona Beach. http://www.daytonabeach.com/resources/history/. "<a href="http://www.codb.us/" target="_blank">City of Daytona Beach</a>." City of Daytona Beach. http://www.codb.us/. Cardwell, Harold D., and Priscilla D. Cardwell. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/57383041" target="_blank">Historic Daytona Beach</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2004. Halifax Historical Society (Daytona Beach, Fla.). <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/46980986" target="_blank">Timeless Daytona Beach</a>. Daytona Beach, Fla: Halifax Historical Society, 2001. Transcript Daytona, Fla. Orange Avenue. avenues buggies buggy Daytona horses oaks Orange Avenue palms roads streets https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/20db54481cee4417ce9d20c0004539a4.pdf d5b4944fc4399e390a5108e3a3ee6ac6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Postcard Collection Alternative Title Postcard Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Description Collection of postcards from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Physical Dimensions 5.5 x 3.5 inch Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Avenue, Orlando, Fla. Postcard Alternative Title Orange Ave. Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Postcards--Florida Description Postcard showing an early scene of Orange Avenue, looking south from Washington Street in Orlando, Florida. In the distance on the west side of the street is the San Juan Hotel, which was built 1885-1886. In front of the San Juan is the Orange County Jail and it's exercise yard. The three-story jail building was built in 1884. Source Original 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Date Created ca. 1900 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original color postcard. Is Part Of Private Collection of Thomas Cook. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format application/pdf Extent 710 KB Medium 5.5 x 3.5 inch color postcard Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orlando, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.543542, -81.379053 Temporal Coverage 1900-01-01/1900-12-31 Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cook, Thomas Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. Lost Orlando. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012 Dickinson, Joy Wallace. A Guide to Historic Orlando. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a> Transcript Orange Avenue, Orlando, Fla. Post Card. PLACE STAMP HERE THIS SIDE FOR MESSAGE Date Copyrighted ca. 1900 Date Issued ca. 1900 Contributor Cook, Thomas Orange Avenue Orange County Jail San Juan de Ulloa Hotel San Juan Hotel Washington Street https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/d87cda8a99a00196c8dc12cbc5f13dc8.jpg 322b8378f444756716366a2b1c59ca57 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection Alternative Title Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection Subject Railroad depots Railroad stations--Florida Railroads--Florida Apopka (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Ocala (Fla.) Port Orange (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Avon Park (Fla.) Mount Dora (Fla.) Punta Gorda (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Kissimmee (Fla.) Oviedo (Fla.) Language eng Type Collection Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the various railroad depots and railroad stations in Central Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Bronson, Kelly Campbell, Tyler Clemente, Chris Connolly, Lehman Covington, Adrian Gray, Mark Lester, Connie L. Mercado, Carlos R. Moore, Samantha Santos, Marina Simons, Nicholas Smalls, Eric Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/77" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Coverage Amtrak Seaboard Coast Line Railroad Station, Orlando, Florida Apopka Seaboard Air Line Railway Depot, Apopka, Florida Avon Park Depot Museum, Avon Park, Florida Avon Park Seaboard Air Line Depot, Avon Park, Florida Avon Park Atlantic Coast Line Train Station, Avon Park, Florida Church Street Station, Orlando, Florida Fort Pierce Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Fort Pierce, Florida Fort Pierce Florida East Coast Railway Company Depot, Fort Pierce, Florida Kissimmee Railroad Station, Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Lake Wales, Florida Lake Wales Depot Museum, Lake Wales, Florida Mount Dora Train Station, Mount Dora, Florida Ocala Union Station, Ocala, Florida Orlando Railroad Depot, Orlando, Florida Oviedo Train Depot, Oviedo, Florida Port Orange Train Station, Port Orange, Florida Punta Gorda Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot, Punta Gorda, Florida Sanford Atlantic Coast Line Depot, Sanford, Florida Sanford South Florida Railroad, Sanford, Florida St. Lucie County Regional History Center, Fort Pierce, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://history.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=525" target="_blank">Dr. Connie L. Lester</a>'s American Economic History Undergraduate Class, Spring 2014 External Reference Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/184906141" target="_blank">A Journey into Florida Railroad History</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2008. Murdock, R. Ken. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38291666" target="_blank">Outline History of Central Florida Railroads</a>. Winter Garden, Fla: Central Florida Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, 1997. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 25: The Railways of Central Florida</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Blossom Special Comes to Lake Wales Alternative Title Orange Blossom Special at Lake Wales Subject Lake Wales (Fla.) Railroads--Florida Description The Orange Blossom Special at the Lake Wales Train Depot. The coming of the railroad to Lake Wales, Florida, brought with it a connection to civilization. Prior to the coming of the railroad there was very little if any development in the area. The first rail line came to Lake Wales in 1919 and from that point until the end of the boom period of Florida history the city expanded extensively. This photograph shows the inaugural run of the Orange Blossom Special from New York to West Palm Beach on the second rail line to arrive in Lake Wales, the Seaboard Air Line Railroad (SAL) , on November 22, 1925. The Lake Wales Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot is located at 325 South Scenic Highway. Type Still Image Source Original 7 x 11 inch black and white photograph, November 22, 1925: <a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">Historic Lake Wales Society</a>, Lake Wales, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">Historic Lake Wales Society</a>, Lake Wales, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/97" target="_blank">Central Florida Railroad Depots Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 7 x 11 inch black and white photograph, November 22, 1925. Coverage Lake Wales Train Depot, Lake Wales, Florida Contributor Campbell, Tyler Date Created 1925-11-22 Format image/jpg Extent 129 KB Medium 7 x 11 inch black and white photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">Historic Lake Wales Society</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://history.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=525" target="_blank">Dr. Connie L. Lester</a>'s American Economic History Undergraduate Class, Spring 2014 Curator Campbell, Tyler Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">Historic Lake Wales Society</a> External Reference Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/184906141" target="_blank">A Journey into Florida Railroad History</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52260683" target="_blank">A Short History of Florida Railroads</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. Murdock, R. Ken. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38291666" target="_blank">Outline History of Central Florida Railroads</a>. Winter Garden, Fla: Central Florida Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, 1997. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 25: The Railways of Central Florida</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477. "<a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">ABOUT THE DEPOT</a>." Lake Wales Museum & Cultural Center, City of Lake Wales. http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum. Cultural Center, City of Lake Wales. http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum. "<a href="http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum" target="_blank">THE RAILROAD AND LAKE WALES</a>." Lake Wales Museum & Cultural Center, City of Lake Wales. http://www.cityoflakewales.com/439/Depot-Museum. "<a href="http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/our-evolution-and-history/interactive-timeline/" target="_blank">Our Evolution and History: CSX</a>." CSX http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/our-evolution-and-history/interactive-timeline/. "<a href="http://www.american-rails.com/atlantic-coast-line.html" target="_blank">The Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, Standard Railroad of the South</a>." The American Railroads: A Long and Storied History. http://www.american-rails.com/atlantic-coast-line.html. Transcript LAKE WALES RAILROAD CROSSING LOOK OUT Zotero University RRD00036.jpg Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Company Lake Wales Lake Wales ACL Depot Lake Wales Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot Lake Wales Depot museums Orange Blossom Special railroad depots railroad stations railroads SAL Scenic Highway Seaboard Air Line Railroad Company https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/313f933edc9df173bfa50c076a368d4e.jpg 6fece0d9e0a15ee4419413070f00b5c5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Collection Description The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well, with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as the Church Street Station entertainment complex. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Contributor Cook, Thomas Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Laura Lynn Alternative Title Orlando Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/46" target="_blank">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Has Format <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/69" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/126" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Information Center Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/111" target="_blank">Orlando Regions Bank Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Blossom Special, 1989 Alternative Title Orange Blossom Special Subject Orlando (Fla.) Railroads--Florida Description The Orange Blossom Special, the last train at the Church Street Railroad Station, located at 76 West Church Street in Downtown Orlando, Florida, in 1989. The original site was occupied by a railroad depot built around 1883. That building was demolished around 1890 and the current Church Street Station Depot was constructed by the South Florida Railroad on the same lot. The site also served the Tavares, Orlando and Atlantic Railroad and the Orlando and Winter Park Railway. In 1926, the Orlando Health/Amtrak station took over passenger operations, but Church Street Station continued to serve as a ticket outlet and freight station until 1972. The last train, called the Orange Blossom Special, remained at the station until January of 2012. The 100-year-old engine was transported to the Florida Railroad Museum in Parrish in order to make room for the new SunRail platform. Church Street Station is on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places. Type Still Image Source Original color photograph, 1989: Private Collection of Nancy Lynn Cepero. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/20" target="_blank">Orlando Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original color photograph, 1989. Coverage Church Street Station, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributor Cepero, Nancy Lynn Date Created ca. 1989-01 Format image/jpg Extent 162 KB Medium 1 color photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Nancy Lynn Cepero and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Schlueb, Mark. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-01-17/news/os-church-street-train-move-20120117_1_church-street-station-sunrail-transport" target="_blank">Orange Blossom Special starts leaving Church Street Station in Orlando</a>"." Orlando Sentinel. January 17, 2012. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-01-17/news/os-church-street-train-move-20120117_1_church-street-station-sunrail-transport. Transcript ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL 2749 CHURCH STREET STATION [illegible] Church Street Church Street Station Church Street Station Railroad Company Orange Blossom Special orlando railroad depots railroad stations railroads trains https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/90b048697bb607fd261a0054abafe116.pdf b6772e80e4db5756cdededc93f26d3f4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Original Format 1 color map Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Blossom Trail: The Scenic Route Through Central Florida Alternative Title Orange Blossom Trail Pamphlet Subject Roads--Florida--Maps Tourism--Florida Highways Orlando (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Clermont (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Davenport (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Miami (Fla.) Sebring (Fla.) Jennings (Fla.) Jasper (Fla.) White Springs (Fla.) McIntosh (Fla.) Lake City (Fla.) Belleview, Fla. (Marion Co.) Oklawaha River (Fla.) Weirsdale (Fla.) Leesburg (Fla.) Tavares (Fla.) Winter Garden (Fla.) Haines City (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Lake Placid (Fla.) Moore Haven (Fla.) High Springs (Fla.) Gainesville (Fla.) Ocala (Fla.) Minneola (Fla.) Mount Dora (Fla.) Zellwood (Fla.) Plymouth (Fla.) Apopka (Fla.) Kissimmee (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Avon Park (Fla.) South Bay (Fla.) Coral Gables (Fla.) Key West (Fla.) Description Pamphlet on the scenic route of Orange Blossom Trail north from the Georgia-Florida border to Key West. The pamphlet lists roadside attractions near or on OBT, in an era before the construction of I-95, I-75 and I-4 nearly ended the traditional roadside attraction. Creator Orange Blossom Trail Association Source Original pamphlet by the Orange Blossom Trail Association: Vaughan & Co., Orlando, Florida: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher Vaughan & Co. Date Created ca. 1959 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original pamphlet by the Orange Blossom Trail Association: Vaughan & Co., Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Private Collection of Thomas Cook. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Requires <a href='http://www.adobe.com/reader.html' target='_blank'>Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Format application/pdf Extent 7.53 MB Medium 1 color map Language eng Type Text Coverage Orlando, Florida Silver Springs, Florida Clermont, Florida Davenport, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Miami, Florida Sebring, Florida Jennings, Florida Jasper, Florida White Springs, Florida McIntosh, Florida Lake City, Florida Belleview, Florida Oklawaha River, Florida Weirsdale, Florida Leesburg, Florida Tavares, Florida Winter Garden, Florida Haines City, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Lake Placid, Florida Moore Haven, Florida High Springs, Florida Gainesville, Florida Ocala, Florida Minneola, Florida Mount Dora, Florida Zellwood, Florida Plymouth, Florida Apopka, Florida Kissimmee, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Avon Park , Florida South Bay, Florida Coral Gables, Florida Key West, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.539291, -81.377907 29.216643,-82.057589 28.555576, -81.772842 28.161308, -81.601653 28.021985, -81.732502 25.789381, -80.226345 27.473621, -81.530419 30.604231, -83.09824 30.517907, -82.951641 30.330213, -82.758007 29.449015, -82.222223 30.191431, -82.638588 29.059471, -82.059345 29.043264, -81.929197 28.982315, -81.924219 28.810987, -81.877041 28.809332, -81.734705 28.55256, -81.59008 28.114837, -81.617975 28.021985, -81.732502 27.293689, -81.358624 29.826944, -82.596989 29.652256, -82.312031 29.187386, -82.140169 28.573894, -81.747308 28.824072,-81.643896 28.729733, -81.604757 28.692225,-81.547213 28.673118, -81.512046 28.304381, -81.403942 27.901559, -81.586368 27.595631, -81.514363 26.664335, -80.716238 25.721354, -80.26823 24.555086, -81.780367 Temporal Coverage 1959-01-01/1959-12-31 Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by the Orange Blossom Trail Association and published by the Brewton Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the Orange Blossom Trail Association and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php" target="_blank">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cook, Thomas Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. Lost Orlando. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012 Dickinson, Joy Wallace. A Guide to Historic Orlando. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a> Transcript Orange Blossom Trail THE Scenic ROUTE THROUGH CENTRAL FLORIDA 1934 - 1959 Twenty Fifth Anniversary "Beauty abounds at Florida's Silver Springs" "Centennial Fountain" Eola Park, Orlando "Aqua Maids at Beautiful Cypress Gardens" Date Copyrighted ca. 1959 Contributor Cook, Thomas 13th Street 4th Street AAA Abshier, A. E. Allardice, James Allen, Ross Alrmina Drive-In Restaurant Amazing Howell Glassblowers America's Tropical Wonderland American Automobile Association American Express Anderson, F. Angebilt Hotel Apopka Motor Courts Aqua-Maids Arrow Head Lodge Avon Motel Baby Animal Nursery Bambi Motel Banister, Fred Bank of Tavares Barney's Park Avenue Bartlett, Tommy Bates, Beryl Bates, Kitten Beachfront Tourist Court Beacon Light Motel Belleview Motor Court Ben White Raceway Bennie's Service Station Bentley's Motel Bibleland Big "D" Steer-In Restaurant Black Hills Passion Play Black Swan Park Blanche Hotel Blue Lake Blue Lake Villa Bob's Shell Service Bok Tower Bok Tower Gardens Bownman & Brown, Inc. Bradley, Otis Bragdon, J. A. Brahma cattle Brewton Company Buliman, J. H. Burgess, Jack Carillon Tower Casa Loma Lodge Centennial Fountain Center of Arcade Central Boulevard Central Florida Motel chamber of commerce Chimp Farm Christy, Howard Chandler Citizen's Bank of Clermont Citizen's National Bank of Lessburg Citizen's National Bank of Orlando Citrus Tower Restaurant and Cocktail Lounge Clayton Waters Service Clements, Frank Clermont Fruit Service Clewiston Inn Clewiston Motel Cloister Courts Coats, Royal M. Coleman, Grace Colonial Drive Colonial Hotel Columbia County conestoga wagon Cook, Thomas Cooks Farm Craft Court Crossroads Motel Cunningham, T. Archie Cypress Gardens Da Vinci, Leonardo Davenport Chamber of Commerce Davis Park Motel Delux Motel Dempsey, Jack Dickson and Ives, Inc. Dietrich, Charles Dietrich, Elsie Diner's Club Dirlam, K. M. Dirlam's Dawn Villa Douglas, A. R. D. downtown Kissimmee downtown Leesburg Downtown Miami Downtown Orlando Duncan Hines Dundee E. S. Marsell Fernery Edgar Roberts Apartments Edwards, A. C. El Patio Motel El Rancho Motel Emerald Motel Ernie's Lakeside Motel Everglades Everglades Tropical Gardens Fairview Park Fairway's Motel Famous Shell Emporium Famous Silver Spurs Fifth Street First Federal Building First Federal Savings and Loan Association First National Bank First National Bank at Orlando Florida Angler's Resort Florida Citrus Tower Florida National Bank Florida Nursery and Landscape Company Florida Orange Packers Florida Watermelon Festival Florida's Biggest Little Town Florida's Cow Country Ford's Shell Service Station Fort Clinch Foster, Stephen Collins Fosteriana Fountain, J. M. French Realtors Fulton's Citrus Groves G&S Packing Company Gahr, Lloyd Gardner's Restaurant Gardos, E. Gary's Duck Inn Gateway to the Ridge Gellerman, Harvey glass-bottom boats Glouser, Zack Great Masterpiece Greater Orlando Chamber of Commerce Green's Fuel Gulf Oil Gulf Oil Corporation Haines City Motor Court Hambletonian Hamilton County Harlan, Montie Hart, E. B. Hart's Sundry Store Harvey's Service Harwell, E. K. Harwell, Mary P. Hi-Lander Motel Highland Hammock State Park Highland Lake Apartments Highland Park Estates Highland Parks Estates Highlander Restaurant Highlands County Highlands Lake Hil-Top Motor Court Hinson Avenue Home Exhibit Hotel Jacaranda Hotel Thomas and Dining Room House of Glass Howard Johnson Restaurant, Johnson, Howard Hunt Brothers Hunter's Nash Motors International Grand Prix Endurance Race Isbell, Jim Isbell, Sue Ivey's of Orlando J. Hillis Miller Health Center J. L. Parris Jr. Laundry Jarvis Motel Johnson, Evelyn Johnson, John Johnson's Beach Johnson's Beach & Cottages Jones, Meredith Jordan, Carl Jordan, Carolyn Kahler, F. H. Kahler, R. N. Keene Realty Company, Inc. Kelly Park King's Garage and Service Station King's Grove Kissimmee Live Stock Market Kissimmee River Valley Koch, Harry A. Koss Manor Motel Koss, Delma Lake Alfred Lake Alfred Motel and Restaurant Lake and Hills Restaurant Lake Apopka Lake Blue Motel Lake Bowers Lake Brentwood Court Lake Clay Lake County Lake Eola Lake Eola Park Lake Highland Lake Istokpoga Lake Ivanhoe Lake Josephine Lake Josephine Tourist Court Lake Mabel Motel Lake Minneola Lake Okeechobee Lake Ola Lake Placid Lake Weir Lake Weir Chamber of Commerce Lake Weir Gift Fruit Company Lake Weir Key Cottages Lakeside Villa Lakeview Motel Lakewood Bar & Package Store Lakewood Estates Last Supper Law, Leo Lee Motel Leesburg Community Center Leesburg Kiwanis Club Leesburg Lion's club Leesburg Rotary Club Lilly, L. M. Lilly's Motel Lloyd's Furniture Main Street Mann, Leone Mann, Paul Manor Motel Marie's Motel and Restaurant Marion County Marion County Citrus Company Marion Street Marks Street Marsell, E. S. Master Hosts McGuire's Standard Station McIntosh Meier, Josef Melton, G. T. Metal Products Company Miami Hotel Miami's Fabulous Seaquarium Mid-Lakes Motel Miller Motel Miller, Henry Millican & Beseke, Inc. Mineral Springs Minneola Gift Shop Minute Maid Monarchik, Helen Monarchik, John Montrose Street Monument of States Moose Head Fishing Camp Moses Rexall Drugs Motel AL-Jl Mid-Town Motel Motel Midget Mansions Mozert's Photo Shop Mrs. Mac's Restaurant Mt. Vernon Motel Musseua, A. A. Nascar Auto Association National Fresh Water Tournament National Pee Wee Championship Nature's Underwater Fairyland New Morrison Cafeteria Nicodemus, Charles Nicodemus, Irene North Avenue North Boulevard North City Motel North Marion County Chamber of Commerce North Marion High School O'Sada, Stanley O'Sada's Gulf Service Station OBT Ocala Ocala National Forest Oklawaha Oklawaha River Ola-Beach Motel Old South Motel Orange Avenue Orange blossom Motel Orange Blossom Trail Orange Blossom Trail Association orange county Orange Lake Orange Lake Citrus Shop Orlando Evening Star Orlando Morning Sentinel Palm Garden Fishing Camp Palm Knoll Motell Palm Motel Palm Terrace Palomino Motel Pan-American Motel Parrish, J. L., Jr. Passion Play Amphitheatre Peacock, Arthur S. Peacock's Motel Phillips Place Plantation Inn Poinsettia Motel Polk County Pope, Dick, Sr. Pope, Richard Downing Preu, Frank J. Preu, Jeanette Pure Oil Company Quality Courts United Ranch Motel Ray's Smoke House Pit-Bar-B-Q Red Barn Restaurant Reddick Reese, Candler C. Rest-A-Nite Motel Rex Beach Lake Rexall Richenbacker Causeway Rilean, W. W. Riley's Trailer Park and Miniature Home Rock Springs Rod'n Reel Court Roosevelt Boulevard Ross Allen's Reptile Institute Ross Allen's Reptile Institute and Wildlife Show Sabal Motel San Juan de Ulloa Hotel San Juan Hotel Scenic Highway Schnieder, John W. Seaquariam Seminoles Shady Lake Shalimar Motor Court shell Shell Emporium Shipley, Grace E. Shipley, Lewis Silver Lake Country Club and Golf Course Silver Palms Motel Silver Springs Silver Springs Boulevard Silver Springs Cafeteria and Restaurant Silver Spurs Rodeo Sinclair Gas and Oil Singing Tower Skyline Motel Slaughter, A. C. Smigel's Auto Clinic Smith, A. W. South Bay Service Station South Lake Realty company Southernaire Motel Spinning Wheel Motel Spook Hill Sportsman's cottages and Fishing Resort Spring Side Motel Squire Restaurant SR-200 SR-25 SR-40 SR-50 SR-540 SR-80 STAPLES' Cottages Starling Motel State Bank State Road 50 State Road 80 Steak House Stephen Foster Memorial Sue and Jim Isbell's Motel with Restaurant Sue's Motel Sugar Bowl Sun Plaza Motor Manor Sunoco Suwannee River Suwannee River Court Tall Pines Motel Talton, William G. Targonski, Benjamin Taylor's Citrus Candy Factory Terra Ceia Court and Restaurant Texaco Products The Belle of Suwannee The Brahma The Carriage Cavalcade The City Beautiful The Fern City of Florida The Jacaranda City The Jungle Cruise The Key Wester The Prince of Peace Memorial Thibault, Alyce Thomas, P. E. Tom Sawyer Motor Inns Tommy Bartlett's Deer Ranch Topical Wind Motel Tower View Motel Trade Winds Cafeteria Tradewins Motel and Restaurant Trailer city Tropical Motor Hotel & Frazer's Steak House Tucker, O. J. tupperware Tupperware Home Parties, Inc. Tupperware Museum of Dishes U.S. Highway 27 U.S. Sugar Mill UF University Court Motel University of Florida US 92 US-17- US-25 US-27 US-27A US-301 US-441 US-441-27 US-98 Ustler Brothers Vaughan & Co. Venetian Court Vo-Mac Groves W. W. Rilea Cottages Wall Streetl Empire Hotel Walt Wellman Groves Waverly Waverly Citrus Growers Cooperative Wayside Motel Webb, J. L. Webb's Drive-In Restaurant Wellman, Walt White House Hotel William G. Talton and Sons Williams, E. L. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/a2ddc118ae188a6429e8836e32607538.jpg f1616569c8efc50ee2752503dcf5414f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Public Library Collection Alternative Title Orlando Library Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Libraries--Florida Chambers of commerce Fire stations--Florida Salvation Army--United States Date Created 2014-07-30 Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng lat Type Collection Contributor <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Williams, Rachel Coverage Albertson Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, Downtown Orlando, Florida Home of Maxie G. Bennett, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida Salvation Army, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Orlando Public Library. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1680244" target="_blank">The Orlando Public Library, November 1923- November 1973, Orlando, Fla</a>. [Orlando]: 1973. "<a href="http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp" target="_blank">Orlando's First Library</a>." Orange County Library System. http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando Public Library, located at 101 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The Orlando Remembered Committee of the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. was created to "showcase artistic renderings of the time depicted, with artifacts and historical memorabilia from the location in an effort to preserve the memory of Orlando's history while acknowledging the potential of the City's future." The exhibit at Regions Bank memorializes several businesses and churches located around the Albertson Public Library (now the Orlando Public Library), including the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, and the Salvation Army building. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 flyer Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Book Festival Flyer Alternative Title Orange Book Festival Subject Orlando (Fla) Libraries--Florida Festivals--United States Description A flyer for the Orange Book Festival at the Albertson Public Library, located at 101 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The Orange Book Festival was held in the summer of 1950. Before there was a public library in Orlando, the local Sorosis Club ran a circulating library for the city. After years of running the library out of homes and clubhouses, the Sorosis Club joined the Board of Education in an effort to organize an official public library. In 1919, the Mayor of Orlando, Eugene Goodman Duckworth (1875-1959), secured the corner of Central Avenue and Rosalind Avenue as the site for the new library. A $73,983 contract was drafted and Murry S. King (1870-1925) was hired as the architect. On December 28, 1922, the cornerstone was laid and, on November 8, 1923, the Albertson Public Library opened with 20,000 books, which included the Sorosis Club's collection, as well as 12,000 books from Captain Charles L. Albertson, a retired police inspector from New York for whom the library was named. Near the end of 1963, plans for a new library were being made. The Albertson Public Library, along with two branches, were to be demolished in order to make room for the new building. In the meantime, a temporary location at 905 North Orange Avenue was used as the library headquarters. On August 7, 1966, the Orlando Public Library opened. Although the name of the library changed, Albertson is still commemorated in the new library for his generous donation with a plaque at the entrance of the building, and the genealogy and local history section of the library is named after him. Less than 10 years later, in 1974, officials began to consider expansion of the library. In 1978, the Orlando City Counsel allocated the block of land to the west of the building for expansion. Architect Duane Stark was given the expansion task, as well as renovating the existing building. The current 290,000 square foot building opened on April 6, 1986. Type Text Source Original flyer, 1950: <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original flyer, 1950. Coverage Albertson Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1950 Format image/jpg Extent 146 KB Medium 1 flyer Language eng Mediator History Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Williams, Rachel Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Orlando Remembered External Reference Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Orlando Public Library. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1680244" target="_blank">The Orlando Public Library, November 1923- November 1973, Orlando, Fla</a>. [Orlando]: 1973. "<a href="http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp" target="_blank">Orlando's First Library</a>." Orange County Library System. http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Transcript ORANGE BOOK FESTIVAL PICK - READ - ENJOY ORLANDO - FLORIDA ALBERTSON PUBLIC LIBRARY SUMMER - 1950 Fair, George Albertson Public Library books Central Boulevard Downtown Orlando Fair, George festivals libraries library Orange Book Festival orlando Orlando Public Library https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/ffaf3786b403758216166ca079b184d3.jpg 825c9810155a4b06f4e750da9e302222 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e572d009efc7c24991e4290d69335690.jpg c3bdd55dac3857a6de5674b51302748b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 2 color digital images Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange County Courthouse, 2003 Alternative Title Orange County Courthouse Subject Orlando (Fla.) Buildings--Florida Courthouses--Florida Description The Orange County Courthouse, located at 425 North Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida, in 2003. In 1857, B. F. Caldwell donated four acres of land at the northeast corner of Central Boulevard and Main Street (present-day Magnolia Avenue) for the original courthouse in Orange County. A two-story hand-hewn log structured was built in 1863, but burned down in 1868. A three-story frame courthouse, the county's fourth, was built by Augustus Hyer in 1875. In 1882, W. C. Green's Company built a fifth courthouse that was designed by A. S. Wagner. An eight-foot tall clock tower with a 1,500 pound bell, nicknamed "Big Ben," was added at the intersection of Central Boulevard and Magnolia Avenue. The sixth courthouse was constructed on land acquired by the county in 1924 in the Neoclassical Revival style. The building was designed by Murray S. King, completed by his son James R. King, and dedicated on October 12, 1927. The 1892 courthouse was demolished in 1957 and replaced in 1960 by a modern glass and steel annex structure connected to the 1927 building. In 1999, the annex was torn down after being abandoned due to asbestos. In the late 1990s, the 1927 courthouse was remodeled for $35 million as the Orange County Regional History Center. The current courthouse for the Ninth District is located on North Orange Avenue. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color digital images by Thomas Cook, 2011: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2011-06-09 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 109 KB 67 KB Medium 2 color digital images Type Still Image Coverage Orange County Courthouse, Downtown Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Visual Arts Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook External Reference "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. "<a href="http://www.ninthcircuit.org/about/courthouses/orange/" target="_blank">Orange County Courthouse</a>,." Ninth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida. http://www.ninthcircuit.org/about/courthouses/orange/. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. 9th District Court Cook, Thomas courthouse Downtown Orlando King, James R. King, Murray S. Neoclassical Revival architecture Ninth District Court Orange Avenue Orange County Courthouse orlando Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Central Florida Historical Resources Collection Description The Central Florida Historical Resources Collection showcases some of the local museums, archives, and historical societies mentioned throughout the RICHES MI database. Each entry provides a summary of the institution's mission and goals, along with necessary contact information. Alternative Title Historical Resources Collection Subject Museums--Florida Archives--Florida Historical societies Orlando (Fla.). Winter Park (Fla.). Mims (Fla.). Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orange County Regional History Center, Downtown Orlando, Florida Harry T. & Harriette V. Moore Cultural Complex, Mims, Florida Hannibal Square Heritage Center, Hannibal Square, Winter Park, Florida GLBT History Museum of Central Florida, Inc., Orlando, Florida Curator Marra, Katherine Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a>." Orange County Regional History Center. http://thehistorycenter.org/. "<a href="http://www.thehistorycenter.org/historicalsocietyofcentralfl" target="_blank">Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc.</a>" Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. http://www.thehistorycenter.org/historicalsocietyofcentralfl. "<a href="http://www.hannibalsquareheritagecenter.org/" target="_blank">African American-Black History at Hannibal Square Heritage Center</a>." Hannibal Square Heritage Center. http://www.hannibalsquareheritagecenter.org/. "<a href="http://www.harryharriettemoore.org/" target="_blank">Who were Harry T. and Harriette V. Moore?</a>" The Harry T. & Harriette V. Moore Cultural Complex, Inc. http://www.harryharriettemoore.org/. "<a href="http://www.brevardcounty.us/ParksRecreation/North/MooreMemorial/Home" target="_blank">Harry T. & Harriette V. Moore Memorial Park</a>." Brevard County. http://www.brevardcounty.us/ParksRecreation/North/MooreMemorial/Home. "<a href="http://www.nbbd.com/godo/moore/" target="_blank">Harry T. Moore Homesite</a>." Titusville, Florida. http://www.nbbd.com/godo/moore/. "<a href="http://glbthistorymuseum.com/joomla25/index.php?lang=en" target="_blank">GLBT History Museum of Central Florida, Inc.</a>" GLBT History Museum of Central Florida, Inc. http://glbthistorymuseum.com/joomla25/index.php?lang=en. Website A resource comprising of a web page or web pages and all related assets ( such as images, sound and video files, etc. ). Local URL <a title="Orange County Regional History Center" href="http://thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">http://thehistorycenter.org/</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange County Regional History Center Alternative Title Orange County Regional History Center Subject Orange County (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Museums--Florida Description According to its website, "The Historical Museum first opened in 1942 in the 1892 red brick Orange County Courthouse at the corner of Central and Magnolia, as a pioneer kitchen exhibit for the Central Florida Centennial Celebration. The popular exhibit remained open; and through public donations of historical objects, large and small, books, papers, and photographs, it grew to fill rooms in the old Courthouse. The collections went into storage from 1957 until 1963, while the county demolished the 1892 Courthouse and built an addition to the 1927 Courthouse on the site of the old building. The museum reopened in the Courthouse Annex in 1963, under the auspices of Orange County Historical Commission, a new county department established by the County Commissioners in 1957 to ensure fiscal and legal stability. By 1970 , the county government needed the space in the annex, so the museum collection was moved again, to the second floor of the Christ Building, a few doors away on Central Boulevard . . .The Orange County Historical Society, Inc., organized in 1971 to raise money for a permanent museum building, which opened in Loch Haven Park in 1976. In 2000, the Historical Museum moved again, back to where it had started at Central Boulevard and Magnolia Avenue. The vacated 1927 Courthouse was restored to become the Orange County Regional History Center, and the Orange County Historical Society became the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc., operating the History Center in partnership with the Orange County Board of County Commissioners. The current Orange County Regional History Center showcases the vast collections of the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. The museum features three floors of permanent exhibitions and also presents nationally important limited-run exhibitions. In 2006, the museum was accepted as an Affiliate of the Smithsonian Institution and was accredited by the American Association of Museums, the highest honor a museum can receive." Creator <a href="http://www.thehistorycenter.org/historicalsocietyofcentralfl" target="_blank">Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc.</a> Source Orange County Regional History Center 65 East Central Boulevard Orlando, Florida 32801 Format application/http Medium Website Language eng Type Website Coverage Orlando, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.542917, -81.377868 Temporal Coverage 1942-01-01/2014-12-31 Accrual Method Deposit Rights Holder The Orange County Regional History Center holds all rights to the items housed within the institution as well as those items represented digitally on <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a>. Contact the <a href="http://thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> for the proper permissions for the use of its items. Contributing Project <a href="http://nextexithistory.com/" target="_blank">Next Exit History™</a> Curator Marra, Katherine Digital Collection <a href="http://thehistorycenter.pastperfect-online.com/31399cgi/mweb.exe?request=ks" target="_blank">Library & Archives</a>, Orange County Regional History Center <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://thehistorycenter.org" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> Click to View (Movie, Podcast, or Website) <a href="http://thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">http://thehistorycenter.org/</a> Date Created 1942 Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/25" target="_blank">Central Florida Historical Resources Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference "Orange County Regional History Center." Orange County Regional History Center. http://thehistorycenter.org/. "Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc." Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. http://www.thehistorycenter.org/historicalsocietyofcentralfl. External Reference Title "<a href="http://thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a>" "<a href="http://www.thehistorycenter.org/historicalsocietyofcentralfl" target="_blank">Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc.</a>" Central Blvd. Central Boulevard Central Bv. Central Florida Centennial Celebration Historical Society of Central Florida Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. OCRHC Orange County Courthouse Orange County Historical Commission Orange County Historical Society, Inc. Orange County Regional History Center https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/87cad48f285cb3869cf90dc24d1cf924.jpg 6be395fe7da822bf8168bf82a01936c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Central Florida Monuments Collection Alternative Title Monuments Collection Subject Florida Orlando (Fla.) Kissimmee (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Winter Springs (Fla.) Memorials--Florida Description Central Florida is a unique place. Diversity exists throughout the spectrum of population, neighborhoods, tourism, and attractions. Because of our uniqueness and seemingly never-ending list of things to do, we tend to overlook the things that make us unique. We tend to overlook our past. We walk through parks, down the street, and around lakes, catch a glimpse of a commemorative plaque or statue, but it stops there. Central Florida is rich of monuments and memorials, yet very rarely do we know why it is there and who put it there. Our small University of Central Florida Public History class selected a number of memorials and monuments around Central Florida. We found busts, markers, structures, and statues that stand tall. Some of these are obvious, but others are hidden amongst the brush. We had no idea what we would find in regards to these gems; some of us found very little, but others found gold. We found that monuments in places like Kissimmee, Lake Eola, and Sanford offer a glimpse into our past that has been overlooked, and in some cases untouched. Through the history of our monuments and memorials, we have been able to gauge social sentiment, populations, but more importantly, the reasons why our predecessors have commemorated what they have. Our sampling in no way represents all of the history Central Florida has to offer, but we can offer you a glimpse and hope that you dig further through the history our region has to offer. Come into our exhibit and look through our shared past and see what was important, and what has been forgotten. Come in and see for yourself a familiar statue to which you can finally give meaning. Come in and see Central Florida in a new light— a light that will take you through the years and the changes of our region. Contributor Bowers, Katherine Borawski, Gianna Dunn, Robin Fitzsimons, Daniel Kittel, Carly Messamore, Kyle Schell, Kristal Schuppe, Cody Language eng Type Collection Coverage Bataan-Corregidor Memorial, Lakefront Park, Kissimmee, Florida Battle of the Bulge Memorial, Lake Eola Park, Downtown Orlando, Florida Bust of Simón Bolívar, Lake Eola Park, Downtown Orlando, Florida Confederate Soldiers, Sailors, and Statesmen Memorial, Lake Eola Park, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orange County World War I Soldiers Memorial, Downtown Orlando, Florida Red Chinese Ting, Lake Eola Park, Downtown Orlando, Florida Seminole County World War I Memorial, Sanford, Florida Winter Springs Veterans Memorial, Winter Springs, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://history.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=525" target="_blank">Dr. Anne Lindsay</a>'s Public History: Principles and Techniques Undergraduate Class Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/exhibits/show/cflmonuments" target="_blank">Hidden in Plain Sight: A Selection of Central Florida Monuments</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/exhibits/show/cflmonuments. External Reference Dickinson, Greg, Carole Blair, and Brian L. Ott. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/663080291" target="_blank">Places of Public Memory The Rhetoric of Museums and Memorials</a>. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press, 2010. Bodnar, John E. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/23731520" target="_blank">Remaking America: Public Memory, Commemoration, and Patriotism in the Twentieth Century</a>. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1991. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color digital image Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange County World War I Soldiers Memorial Description On November 11, 1924, Armistice Day, the Orlando Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) dedicated a granite marker to the soldiers from Orange County, Florida, who died in World War I. The idea was conceived by the then-regent of DAR in 1920, but for unknown reasons, and much to the dismay of the DAR chapter, it took four years to construct. The marker consists of a bronze tablet attached to a large granite block and was originally erected at Memorial High School in Orlando, Florida. In the dedication address, Francis Gregory, chapter regent, proclaimed that the granite marker symbolized the solid character of the United States of America, and the bronze plaque commemorated those who made the marker possible: the DAR and the citizens of Orange County. After Memorial High School was demolished in 1961, the Orange County World War I Soldiers Memorial was moved to South Lake Eola where it still stands today. Date Created 2013-09-19 Coverage Orange County World War I Soldiers Memorial, Lake Eola Park, Downtown Orlando, Florida Creator Kittel, Carly Source Original digital color image by Carly Kittel, September 19, 2013. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Carly Kittel and is provided here by <a title="RICHES of Central Florida" href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Transcript "LEST WE FORGET" IN MEMORY OF THE ORANGE COUNTY BOYS WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES IN THE WORLD WAR ERECTED BY THE ORLANDO CHAPTER DAUGHTERS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION AIDED BY PATRIOTIC CITIZENS OF ORANGE COUNTY 1924 External Reference "D.A.R Unveils Memorial Stone at High School." <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1845855" target="_blank">The Orlando Evening Star</a>, November 11, 1924. Reel 27. Orlando Public Library Microfilm Collection. Orange County Library System, Orlando, Fl. Keith, Jeanette. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/54543806" target="_blank">Rich Man's War, Poor Man's Fight: Race, Class, and Power in the Rural South During the First World War</a>. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 2004. Carlisle, Rodney P. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/741611844" target="_blank">Sovereignty at Sea U.S. Merchant Ships and American Entry into World War I</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2009. Alternative Title Orange County WWI Memorial Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Memorials--Florida Veterans--Florida World War I, 1914-1918 Contributor Kittel, Carly Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/admin/collections/show/77" target="_blank">Central Florida Monuments Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/exhibits/show/cflmonuments" target="_blank">Hidden in Plain Sight: A Selection of Central Florida Monuments</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 3.87 MB Medium 1 color digital image Language eng Type Still Image Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Humanities Teacher Visual Arts Teacher Provenance Originally created and owned by Carly Kittel. Contributing Project <a href="http://history.cah.ucf.edu/staff.php?id=525" target="_blank">Dr. Anne Lindsay</a>'s Public History: Principles and Techniques Undergraduate Class Curator Kittel, Carly Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> DAR Daughters of the American Revolution Daughters of the American Revolution Orlando Chapter Downtown Orlando Gregory, Francis Kittel, Carly Lake Eola Lake Eola Park memorial Memorial High School monument orange county Orange County World War I Soldiers Memorial orlando soldier veteran World War I WWI https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/SCC00021.pdf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange County Collection Alternative Title Orange County Collection Subject Orange County (Fla.) Apopka (Fla.) Christmas (Fla.) Maitland (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Winter Garden (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of Orange County, Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Mosquito County, a massive county south of St. Johns County that consisted of much of Central Florida was established in 1824. In 1845, Mosquito County was renamed Orange County when Florida earned statehood. This new county included present-day Osceola County, Seminole County, Lake County, and Volusia County. Orange County was named so for the area's major fruit crop: oranges. The area was devastated by a freeze during the winter of 1895-1896, which allowed for subsequent land speculators to initiate a land boom in Florida, with Orlando becoming a "boom town." Seminole County separated from Orange on April 25, 1913 and was named for the Seminole tribes that originally inhabited the area. In 1926, Orange County was hit by a hurricane and then by the stock market crash and Great Depression beginning in 1929. Central Florida recovered in the late 1930s and experienced steady growth until 1967. In 1971, Walt Disney World was completed, signaling the beginning of the transformation of the Greater Orlando area into one of the world's major tourist destinations. The citrus industry in the county peaked in the early 1970s, but many groves were destroyed by several freezes during the early 1980s. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orange County, Florida Apopka, Florida Christmas, Florida Maitland , Florida Orlando, Florida Winter Garden, Florida Winter Park, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Contributor <a href="http://apopkamuseum.org/" target="_blank">Apopka Historical Society and Museum of the Apopkans</a> Cepero, Laura Lynn Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cook, Thomas Davis, Larry D., Jr. <a href="http://artandhistory.org/maitland-history-museum/" target="_blank">Maitland Historical Museum, Art & History Museums - Maitland</a> <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> <a href="http://orlandophil.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra</a> <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. External Reference Blackman, William Fremont. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1725831" target="_blank">History of Orange County, Florida; Narrative and Biographical</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1973. Howard, Clarence E. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62733166" target="_blank">Early Settlers of Orange County, Florida: Reminiscent-Historic-Biographic</a> Orlando, Fla: C.E. Howard, 1915. Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/53" target="_blank">Apopka Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/52" target="_blank">Apopka Historical Society and Museum of the Apopkans Collection</a>, Apopka Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/60" target="_blank">Christmas Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/112" target="_blank">Maitland Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/113" target="_blank">Maitland Historical Museum Collection</a>, Maitland Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/150" target="_blank">The Maitland News Collection</a>, Maitland Historical Museum Collection, Maitland Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/20" target="_blank">Orlando Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/126" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Information Center Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/111" target="_blank">Orlando Regions Bank Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/105" target="_blank">Winter Garden Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/115" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation Collection</a>, Winter Garden Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/124" target="_blank">Up From the Ashes Collection</a>, Winter Garden Heritage Foundation Collection, Winter Garden Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/152" target="_blank">Albin Polasek Museum & Sculpture Gardens Collection</a>, Winter Park Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 book Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange County's Sheriff's Book of Wanted Persons, 1882-1889 Alternative Title Wanted Persons in Orange County Subject Orange County (Fla.) Sheriffs--Florida Law enforcement--Florida Police--Florida Fugitives from justice--United States Warrants (Law)--United States Crime--Florida Description The Orange County book of wanted persons from 1882 to 1889, during the tenure of two sheriffs: Sheriff Thomas "Long Tom" Shine who served from January 27, 1877, until February 15, 1885, and Julias Caesar Anderson, who served until his death on January 20, 1901. Sheriff Anderson saw a very different Orange County than his predecessors, because railroads had doubled the local population in five years. While most of the wanted fugitives are from Central Florida, there were also warrants from across Florida. There were also warrants from different states, such as California, Alabama, New York, and Georgia. The reward prices varied from suspect to suspect, but most were within the range of 50 dollars, although some were as high as 450 dollars. While there are no more warrants issued from Florida after 1889, there were national warrants dating to 1897. This book was donated to the Museum of Seminole County History by Sheriff John Polk, who was the dean of Florida sheriffs from 1969 to 1990. Type Physical Object Source Original color digital image, 2015: <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/44" target="_blank">Seminole County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Coverage Orlando, Florida Ocala, Florida Live Oak, Florida Sanford, Florida McAlpin, Florida Jacksonville, Florida Tampa, Florida Oviedo, Florida Bronson, Florida Leesburg, Florida Columbia City, Florida Titusville, Florida Green Cove Springs, Florida Seville, Florida Cedar Key, Florida Haines City, Florida Bartow, Florida Ellaville, Florida Fort White, Florida Lake City, Florida Jennings, Florida Madison, Florida Monticello, Florida Tallahassee, Florida Date Created 2015 Format application/pdf Extent 2.34 MB Medium 1 book Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Fried, Aaron Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.ocso.com/officeofthesheriff/historicalhighlights/tabid/58/default.aspx" target="_blank">Historical Overview</a>." Orange County Sheriff's Office. http://www.ocso.com/officeofthesheriff/historicalhighlights/tabid/58/default.aspx. Perez, Robert. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1991-06-22/news/9106220759_1_john-polk-florida-sheriffs-law-enforcement" target="_blank">Ex-seminole Sheriff John Polk Dies At 59</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, June 22, 1991. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1991-06-22/news/9106220759_1_john-polk-florida-sheriffs-law-enforcement. 3rd Street 5th Avenue 7th Street A. B. Efrird A. B. Shroud A. D. Adair & McCarty Brothers A. E. Buck A. J. Bates A. J. Ivey A. J. Spradley A. J. Sullivan A. J. Weaver A. L. Martin A. M. Kendrick A. M. Winfree A. S. Colyar, Jr. A. Strauss A. Zeger Aaron Coachman abortions Abraham Bell Abraham Putnam Adam Gillison Adam Thompson Alabama Penitentiary Alachua County Albert Cathey Alex Henderson Alexander Anderson Alexander Ekstrom Alexander Johnson Alexander Mincey Alexander Pitts Alfred Clarke Alfred Coffee Alfred Jones Alfred W. Burnett Allan Pinkerton Allen Ford Alphens Martin Amos cummings Amos Jordan Anderson McKinnon Andrew Ellis Andrew Wilson Andrews & Martin Apalachicola Archer Archie Loyd arrest warrants arrests arson arsonists Asa Whitaker assault assault to murder assault to rape attempted murder attempted rape attorneys B. A. Wrighstman B. F. Bennett B. H. Girele B. R. Swoope B. W. Bentley bail jumpers bail jumping Bailey Barbour County Sheriff's Office Bartow Ben Baker Ben Lock Ben Watkins Benajmin F. Adams Berrien Bryant bigamay bigamists Bill Galvin Bill Johnson Bill Martin Bill Rooth Bill Sherson Bill Williams Billy Camble Billy Campbell Blitch blood hounds Bollock Braxton Beacham Broadway Street Bronson Brooks Johnson Brooks Story Brooksville Broome burglars burglary Burton H. Davy Butch Bradley Bynum C. B. Easley C. B. Hansel C. C. Johnson C. E. Hunter C. F. Conerly C. Gordon Hicks C. J. Anderson C. J. Perry C. K. Dutton C. K. Winston C. P. Hoyt C. P. Jolly C. P. Kilgore C. R. Scott C. W. C. Wright C. W. Hursy Calvin Burton Calvin Lockett Cardinal Gibbons Carl Bachman Carmelo Salvati Carson cattle stealing Cedar Key Charles Adkins Charles Badger Charles Baldwin Charles Bluemont Charles Coleman Charles David Charles Johnson Charles Martin Charles O. Earnes Charles P. Johnson Charles Reddiford Charlie Davis Charlie Holmes Charlie Reeves Charlie Rose Charlie White Charlie Wood Chataroi Road Chattahoochee Brick Company Ches Hughs Chester Seymour Chief of Police Chief Pinion Detective Agency Chipley Christian Black Citra Clarence A. Seward Clarence Tear Clark Clark Montgomery Coffey & Hyer Colorado State Penitentiary Columbia City Columbia County Constantine Algero convicts Cooper Winn cops county government Court Street Creoles crimes criminals Crosby Cuff Patton D. C. Hennessey D. E. Mccarthy D. U. Fletcher Dade Coal Company Dan Scott Daniel Daniel Rouse David Caldwell David N. Walker Day & Gordon Deaderick Street detectives detention Dick Bell Dimick Doc Barrentine Dock Rodgers Dockie Carson DOJ Dry Goods, Millinery, Shoes, and Company Duval County E. A. McRae E. A. O'Neal E. B. Bailey E. C. Vaughan E. G. Elliott E. H. Covas E. J. Kelley E. J. Young E. R. Whitner E. T. Dickinson E. T. Williams E. Upton Lovejoy Earp's Detective Agency Ed Curry Ed Frazier Ed S. Carr Edgar Knowles Edgward Eggleston Edward A. O'Neal Edward Asbury O'Neal Edward Cunningham Edward Sterling Harris Edward W. Bannister Ellaville Ellis Phelan Elmore Johnson escaped convicts Eueka Detective Agency Eugene Day Eugene Van Norman Eureka Detective Agency Eustis Exchange Place F. C. Buffum F. C. Russell Farrell & Boylan's Detective Agency felonies felony Fernand B. Poupart Fifth Avenue Flem Spicer Florida Penitentiary Florida State Prison Ford J. Perkins forgers forgery Fort White Francis P. Fleming Francis Philip Fleming Frank Blint Frank C. Almy Frank C. McNeilley Frank Dusch Frank J. Cassada Frank White Frank Williams Fred Koehler Fred numan Fred Schmidt Fred Spicer fugitives Furman's Job Print G. B. Howard G. E. Garretson G. W. Shackleford G. Walton Galillard George A. Hill David Dickson George A. Searcy George Allen George Archer George Brown George Caldwell George D. Bangs George E. Malsby George Favor George G. Gurley George Heyward Carpenter George Johns George King George Manders George Manhon George Peuser George W. Shackleford George Washington George Wells Georgia Penitentiary Gid H. Heck Gilkinson's American Detective Bureau government grand larceny Grant Grant Bowlby Graves Holt Gravier Street Graysville Penitentiary Green Cove Springs Gus Brown Guss Story Guy McLain H. D. Ballard H. H. Rudd H. M. Huffaman H. T. Gay H. Williams Haezen's Detective Agency Haines City Hall Trippe Hamilton Story Hampton Childers Hampton Pinkney Hardee Hardin & Ramsey Hardy Todd Harmon Murray Harris Miller Harry Berry Hartridge Harvey Merrit Hazen Detective Agency Hennessey Commercial Detective Agency Henry Allen Henry Briscoe Henry Davis Henry Fish Henry Griffin Henry Hainey Henry Johnson Henry Lanier Henry McTier Henry Underwood Henry Wilson Henry Wright Hertel Highland Hill Clark Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office Hooker horse theft horses Hugh Conley Hugh Jackson Humphries & Sykesl R. R. Barrentine I. H. Cook incarceration inmates intent to murder International Ocean Telegraph Company Ira M. True Ira M. True & Company Isaac Sateur Isaac Williams Isac Cooms J Q. Gallaway J. A. Ewing J. A. Hilliard J. B. Gordon J. Bartho Thrasher J. C Anderson J. C. Arnold J. C. Geiger J. C. Sawyer J. D. Register J. D. Wilson J. E. Gaston J. E. Haverfield J. F. Milam J. F. Rushin J. F. Stallings J. G. White J. Galloway J. H. Bankhead J. H. Bear J. H. Black J. H. Fish J. H. Hays J. H. Mowatt J. H. Twito J. H. Wilhite J. I. Town J. Ira Gore J. L. Clanton J. L. Hilliard J. L. Johns J. M. Flemming J. M. Holder J. M. T. Petty J. M. Williams J. N. C. Stockton J. Paul Russell J. R, Perry J. R. Porterfield J. S. Barnett J. S. Wood J. W. English J. W. McIntyre J. W. West Jack Baker Jack Bowen Jack Bryson Jack Coleman Jack Hall Jack Scott Jack Stemper Jack Straughter Jacksonville Jacob Frey Jacob Sheaner jail breaks jails Jake Barber Jake Jackson James Allen James Brady James C. Snell James Cannedy James Cook James Crawford James E. Rice James Geary James M. Lewis James Mitchell James Morrison James O. Archer James Ora James P. Martin James Petit James Roberts James Slengle James T. Garner James Wiley James Williams Jap York Jefferson County Jeffrey Snell Jennie Brinson Jennings Jerry Marshall Jesse Middleton Jessie Harris Joe Crenelear Joe Frisby Joe Kelley Joe Killebrew Joe Pickett Joe Weston Joe Wiley Joe Woods Joe Young John A. Pearce John Brown John Brown Gordon John Cheek John Cornish John Culley John Cummings John E. Davis John F. Morriss John G. F. Powell John H. Crawford John H. Weber John Harris John Howard John Jackson John L. Crawford John M. Breen John McAleese John McDuffy John Monroe Benford John Owens John P. Long John Polk John R. Towers John s. Town John Smith John Steward John Summers John Thomson John W. RaymondJ. A. Woodall John Webb John Williams John York Johnson County Johnson Spates Jones & Garnet Jordan Weathersby Joseph Branch Joseph Young Judge Allen Jules Anderson Julias Caesar Anderson Julius Anderson Julius K. Ward Julius Worley K. P. Sumby Kanawha Circuit Court Katharine Handroff kidnappers kidnapping Kissimmee L. B. Story L. B. York L. F. Patterson L. F. Pattinson Lake City Lake County larceny law enforcement Lawrence Green lawyers Leesburg Leon County Levi G. Simmons Levy County Levy County Sheriff's Office Lewis C. Cassidy Lewis Carroll Linck's Hotel Lizzie Mitchell Llloyd Williams local government Long Tom Shine Lony Rutland Louis C. Saliniere M. C. Gantt M. G. Bayn M. H. Kelly M. M. Willoughby M. Smith Mack Holloway Madison Madison County Mahitable White Main Street Malachia Allen Marion County Mart Jackson Mattie Jackson Mattthew Burnett McAlpin McConnell McFadden McGowan Harman McLeod, Cranford & Company McLin Miles Newburn Milligan missing persons Monticello Mooney & Boland Detective Agency Moses Braxton mules murderers murders Mureland Yowns Myers N. B. Deatherage Nashville Metropolitan Police Nathan Barnes Neal Taylor New Orleans Cotton Exchange New York State Reformatory Nivision Nixburg Beat Nolan Smith Northern District of Florida Northern Pacific Express Company O. A. Budington O. J. Greenleaf O. M. Ward Ocala Oisbin Ollie T. Rice orange county Orange County Sheriff's Office Order of Cincinnatus orlando Orlando Livery Oviedo P. J. Murphy P. J. Rogers P. S. Bartlett Paduck Police Palatka Palmer Parker House Pascal B. Lang Pat A. Clinton Pat Corcoran Patsy Washington Peacock penitentiaries penitentiary Pensacola perjurers perjury Perry Vinson Peter Barkey Peter Cook Peter Harrison Phillip Bryant Phillip Cook Phinizee Williams Phipps Pine Street Pinkterton's National Detective Agency police Polk County polygamists polygamy Pope Leo XIII Porter's National Detective Agency Pratt Mines Price Broyles prison break prison camps prison escapes prisoners prisons Quah Bivins R. B. Cuthby R. G. Hurley R. J. Linden R. M. Porter railroads Ralph Camfield rape rapists Rees Walker rewards Reynolds & McLeod Rice Gholson Richard Benning Richard Gardiner Richard Graham Richard Lawrence Richard Lewis Richard Meservey Richard Moses Richard Pelham Richard Stephens Richard Tumlin Richardson's Detective Agency Rifis Rice Rob Huger robbers robbery Robert A. Pinkerton Robert Board Robert Colbrook Robert Frost Robert Hagar Robert Huger Robert Jackson Robert M. Brown Robert McLane Robert Pascal Robert Smith Robert Starke Robert Tom Smith Robert Wright Roberts Rollan Harris Rome Under Nero Rufus R. Wade Russell & Osborne Russell Randolph S. C. Grogg S. G. Todd S. J. Hilliard S. M. Farmer S. P. Hardwick S. S. Pickett S. S. Puckett Saco and Biddeford Savings Institute Saint Augustin Sam Devault Sam Finnegan Sam Hargettl Henry Wilson Sam Johnson Sam Smithson Sam Snelling Sam Williams Sam Yates Sampson Cason Samuel B. Kennedy, Jr. Samuel Davis Samuel Francis Sandie Martin Sandy Polite Sandys Keys Sanford Sebe Russell seduction Seth Taylor Seventh Street Seville Shackleford's Georgia Central Detective Agency sheriffs Sherman Bram Sherman Carouth Shins Sidney Lowe Sieben Russell Silas Brookes Silas H. Brigham Silas Harris Silas Martin simple larceny Smith & Wesson Smith, West & Lyons South Florida Railroad Southern Express Company Squire BlacksheerSam Weston St. Augustine St. Johns County Stanton Starke steal Stephen E. Rice Stephen F. New Steve Fannin Steven Wiggins Studebaker Sullivan's Detective Agency Sumpter Nichols Sunderland Suwannee County swindlers T. B. Blount T. B. Robbins T. D. Newland T. J. Fish T. N. Boylan T. T. Ellison Tallahassee Tavares Taylor Nixon Tennessee Coal Iron & Railroad Company The Cincinnati Enquirer The Criminal Record theft thieves Third Street Thomas Thomas Byrnes Thomas Campbell Thomas Hays Thomas Mike Thomas Porter Thomas Shine Thomas Watts Thomas Williams Thompson Richards Titusville Tobe Crystal Tobe Jackson Tom Brinson Tom Telfer Tony Salvati Travis Sumpter U.S. Department of Justice U.S. Marshal Vincenzo Gioacchino Raffaele Luigi Pecci Virgil Earp voluntary manslaughter voluntary manslaugther Volusia County W. B. Beard W. B. Lowe W. B. Parker W. C. Bube W. C. Parker W. D. Kellett W. E. Minchin W. F. Wilson W. G. Dyer W. H. Bigham W. H. Bowie W. H. Davis W. H. Deaver W. H. H. Bush W. H. Yater W. J. Footner W. J. Winstead W. K. Knight W. L. McDowell W. L. Richardson W. L. Trappard W. M. Raulerson W. O. Wadley W. P. Harrison W. P. Hazen W. P. Loftis W. P. Rogers W. P. Thomspon W. R. Eason W. R. Gaulding W. S. Hubbs W. S. West W. T. Dowda W. T. Linck W. W. Simpson Wade Holmes Wadsworth Walter Ford Walter J. Howaland Walter T. Williams wanted warrant Warren & Thomas Warren Peavy Warren Wilcher Washington County watch watches Whoreley Building Wiley Jordon Wiley Warren Will Burney Will Hammond Will Hazen Will Jacobs Will Johnson William A. Pinkerton William Allen William Averitt William Brinson William Buford William C. Bird William C. Wrightsman William Coleman William Creal William Henderson William J. West William Jefferson William Jordan William Kemble William Killebrew William McKnight William Mitchell William Morriss William Pierce William S. Tyson William Springer William Stanley William Stephens William Strickland William Walker William Wright Williams Williams Vales Willie Hansel Willie Jordon Willie Smith Willis Hodges Wilson Evans Wood & Brother Z. L. Baxter https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/7642280fa9d1d2ecef514e3ae0ab5651.jpg 142b2b6b3070b196e5632a31dc7243f3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Collection Description The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well, with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as the Church Street Station entertainment complex. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Contributor Cook, Thomas Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Laura Lynn Alternative Title Orlando Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/46" target="_blank">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Has Format <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/69" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/126" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Information Center Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/111" target="_blank">Orlando Regions Bank Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Court Apartment Hotel Postcard Alternative Title Orange Court Apartment Hotel Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Hotels--Florida Description A postcard featuring Orange Court Apartment Hotel, located at 650 North Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The hotel was designed in Spanish Revival architectural style by G. Lloyd Preacher (1882-1972) of Atlanta, Georgia, and constructed by G.A. Miller, Inc. (also known as the GA Miller Construction Company) in 1924. The hotel had 275 rooms, a Spanish garden, and a small orange grove. Orange Court was also one of the first hotels in Orlando to have a steam-heated swimming pool. The building was demolished in 1990. Abstract Color picture postcard of Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Orlando, Florida. Printed on reverse side: Orlando is the seventh city of Florida and the largest inland city in the state. It is the county seat of Orange County and located in the very heart of Florida's brick highway system, the heart of the citrus belt, and the heart of the lake region of Central Florida. Type Still Image Source Original color postcard: "Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Orlando, Florida." E. C. Kropp Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin: <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections & University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections & University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Orlando Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color postcard: "Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Orlando, Florida." E. C. Kropp Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Has Format Digital reproduction of original color postcard: "<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/ref/collection/CFM/id/2078" target="_blank">Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Orlando, Florida</a>." E. C. Kropp Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Tag number DP0010655, Central Florida Memory. Coverage Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1924-1990 Date Copyrighted ca. 1924-1990 Format image/jpg Extent 84.8 KB Medium 1 color postcard Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally published by the E. C. Kropp Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida's Special Collections & University Archives</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://www.cfmemory.org/" target="_blank">Central Florida Memory</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Transcript Orange Court Apartment Hotel, Orlando, Florida. Downtown Orlando E. C. Kropp Company G. A. Miller, Inc. G. Lloyd Preacher GA Miller Construction Company George Lloyd Preacher hotels Orange Court Apartment Hotel orlando Spanish revival tourism https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e2b98ad037056521b2b53f1ef5c46234.jpg 1b382f0921b56b04758bc9a27d58b502 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Belair Grove Collection Alternative Title Belair Collection Subject Lake Mary (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Citrus fruit industry--Florida Agriculture--Florida Chase and Company (Sanford, Fla.) Citrus--Florida Description In 1870, Henry Shelton Sanford purchased 12,547.15 square acres of land known as the Sanford Grant. The acreage included an experiment station called Belair Grove, located just three miles southwest of the city and named after Sanford. By 1889, Sanford extended his land purchase to 145 acres and contained mainly orange and lemon trees. In Belair alone, Sanford introduced over 140 varieties of citrus plants. All were tested to determine if Florida citrus growers could introduce new varieties into the growing citrus market. Sanford also grew exotic plants acquired from Central and South America, many of which survived the 1886 freeze. Sanford mainly used Belair as his own experiment station, but ultimately the findings and reports would be used by other citrus growers throughout Florida. Eventually, following Sanford's death in 1891, his wife, Gertrude Sanford, sold Belair to Sydney and Joshua Chase. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/23" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/93" target="_blank">Citrus Collection</a>, Chase Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. References <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">A Guide to the Chase Collection</a> Language eng Type Collection Coverage Belair Grove, Lake Mary, Florida Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida <a href="http://ufdc.ufl.edu/" target="_blank">Digital Collections (UFDC)</a>, University of Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Marra, Katherine Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository University of Florida, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> External Reference "<a href="http://floridacitrushalloffame.com/index.php/inductees/inductee-name/?ref_cID=89&bID=0&dd_asId=600" target="_blank">Sydney Chase Sr. (1860-1941)</a>." Florida Citrus Hall of Fame. Copyright 2012. http://floridacitrushalloffame.com/index.php/inductees/inductee-name/?ref_cID=89&bID=0&dd_asId=600. Westgate, Philip J., and R. Bruce Ledin. "<a href="http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1953%20Vol.%2066/184-187%20(WESTGATE).pdf" target="_blank">Belair Groves, Sanford, Pioneer in Sub-Tropical Horticultural Introductions</a>." Florida State Horticultural Society 66 (1953): 184-187. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1634737" target="_blank">Some Account of Belair, Also of the City of Sanford Florida, With a Brief Sketch of Their Founder</a>. Sanford, Florida: 1889. <a title="Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway" href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/media/pdf/leisure_services/20110407_historic_brochure.pdf" target="_blank">Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway</a>. Sanford, Florida: City of Sanford, 2005. Contributor <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida Provenance Entire <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a> is comprised of four separate accessions from various donors, including Cecilia Johnson, the granddaughter of Joshua Coffin Chase and the children of Randall Chase. Rights Holder The displayed collection is housed at <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> at the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. Rights to this item belong to the said institution, and therefore inquiries about the item should be directed there. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> has obtained permission from Special and Area Studies Collections at the University of Florida to display this item for educational purposes only. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Physical Dimensions 8.5 x 5.5 inch Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Grove After the Freeze of 1888 Alternative Title Orange Grove After Freeze Subject Orange growers--Florida Agriculture--Florida Freezes (Meteorology)--Florida Oranges--Florida Sanford (Fla.) Description Orange grove in Sanford, Florida. By the time that this photograph had been taken in 1897, citrus groves in Central Florida had mostly recover from the devastating Freeze of 1888. In 1871, General Henry S. Sanford (1823-1891) began clearing land and planting citrus groves. He began planting citrus groves at St. Gertrude, an orange grove named after his wife. By 1873, General Sanford moved his orange growing endeavors to Belair, a tract of 145 acres three miles from Sanford. In 1894, General Sanford and other citrus growers suffered greatly as a result of record low and freezing temperatures. Since all of the year's crop yield was damaged as well as the trees, farmers in Sanford relied on celery as a new crop and source of income. Local business Chase & Company continued growing citrus and took over the operations at Belair to become one of Sanford's largest employers during the early twentieth century. Abstract Seal on back of photograph, "Ensminger Bros., Photographers; No. ___; P.O. Box 185. Sanford, Fla.; Invite attention to their list of view of South Florida Scenery from three hundred selected negatives, embracing choice subjects." Creator Chase & Company Source Original 8.5 x 5.5 inch inch black and white photograph by Chase & Company, June 3, 1897: Chase Collection (MS 14), box 211, folder 3.30A, item CC 113, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, George A. Smathers Libraries, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida. Publisher Ensminger Bros., Sanford, Fla. Date Created 1897-06-03 Date Copyrighted 1897-06-03 Is Referenced By Folder referenced in Chase Collection finding guide, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm">http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm</a>. Format image/jpeg Extent 173 KB Medium 8.5 x 5.5 inch black and white photograph Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Sanford, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.76449, -81.325704 Temporal Coverage 1889-01-01/1897-06-03 Accrual Method Donation Provenance Entire <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a> is comprised of four separate accessions from various donors, including Cecilia Johnson, the granddaughter of Joshua Coffin Chase and the children of Randall Chase. Rights Holder The displayed collection item is housed at <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> at the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. Rights to this item belong to the said institution, and therefore inquiries about the item should be directed there. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> has obtained permission from Special and Area Studies Collections at the University of Florida to display this item for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida <a href="http://ufdc.ufl.edu/" target="_blank">Digital Collections (UFDC)</a> Curator Marra, Katherine Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">University of Florida, Special and Area Studies Collections</a> External Reference Brochure, Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway. Sanford, Florida: City of Sanford, 2005. Molloy, Leo T. Henry Shelton Sanford (1823-1891). Derby, Connecticut: Valley Historical Research Committee, 2009. Sanford Historical Society, Inc. Sanford. Charleston, South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing, 2003. Some Account of Belair, Also of the City of Sanford, Florida. Sanford, Florida, 1889. http://www.archive.org/details/someaccountofbel00sanf. Henry Shelton Sanford Papers. General Sanford Memorial Library, Sanford Museum, Sanford, Florida. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=21" target="_blank">Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1729498" target="_blank">Henry Shelton Sanford (1823-1891)</a> <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a> <a href="http://www.archive.org/details/someaccountofbel00sanf" target="_blank">Some Account of Belair, Also of the City of Sanford, Florida</a> <a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/the-henry-shelton-sanford-papers.html" target="_blank">Henry Shelton Sanford Papers</a> Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 8.5 x 5.5 inch black and white photograph by Chase & Company, June 3, 1897. Is Part Of Chase Collection (MS 14), box 211, folder 3.30A, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, George A. Smathers Libraries, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/86" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Chase Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Audience Education Level SS.K.A.1.2; SS.K.E.1.1; SS.K.G.1.4; SS.K.G.3.3; SS.1.A.1.1; SS.1.E.1.4; SS.1.G.1.4; SS.1.G.1.6; SS.2.A.1.1; SS.3.A.1.1; SS.3.G.1.1; SS.3.G.2.4; SS.3.G.2.6; SS.3.G.3.1; SS.3.G.4.1; SS.4.A.1.1; SS.4.A.6.1; SS.4.E.1.2; SS.4.G.1.1; SS.4.G.1.3; SS.5.A.1.1; SS.5.G.1.3; SS.5.G.1.4; SS.6.G.2.1; SS.6.G.2.4; SS.6.W.1.3; SS.7.G.2.3; SS.8.A.1.2; SS.8.A.1.5; SS.8.G.2.1; SS.8.G.5.1; SS.912.A.1.1; SS.912.A.1.4; SS.912.A.1.6; SS.912.A.3.1; SS.912.A.3.4; SS.912.A.3.13; SS.912.G.1.2; SS.912.G.1.4; SS.912.G.2.1; SS.912.G.3.2; SS.912.G.5.1; SS.912.W.1.3 Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Humanities Teacher celery Chase & Co. Chase and Company citrus freeze Freeze of 1888 orange groves Sanford, Henry S. St. Gertrude https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b4ae1c1773bc85a62edba20629bd4b84.jpg 161ce831e9c79ce46e2ef785e0b1b835 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/54907ebf9cefd0b14f4e8b3d23ab4694.jpg db7bd82a33ae0e29bb29347ba01a44c8 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/92513a9467b8c5c16eb744642f9797d1.jpg 2a66f544d54648ff1e6f676453fbb0da https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/eb6c3e5536a9c94db7b83841c42b58c6.jpg 9bce93a3148d715f2d482c316b3bb2b8 https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/3860e5ac5843f4cffa3b5f1677af798b.jpg 6fe214d168613d572e593dc894b43b6f https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/31694533a7f0932d49f74525fb5018cb.jpg 9abfa31e4df6e408b9dbfa83aa4736b6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Thomas Cook Collection Alternative Title Cook Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Orange County (Fla.) Longwood (Fla.) Cape Canaveral (Fla.) Lake Wales (Fla.) Silver Springs (Fla.) Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Winter Haven (Fla.) Osceola County (Fla.) Winter Park (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, postcards, documents, and other records from the private collection of Thomas Cook. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Contributor Cook, Thomas Language eng Type Collection Coverage Cape Canaveral, Florida Lake Wales, Florida Longwood, Florida Orange County, Florida Orlando, Florida Osceola County, Florida Winter Haven, Florida Winter Park, Florida Rights Holder All items in the <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a> are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook Has Part <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/103" target="_blank">Postcard Collection</a>, Thomas Cook Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a> Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Osborne, Ray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/253374549" target="_blank">Cape Canaveral</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Smith, Margaret. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51888803" target="_blank">The Edward Bok Legacy: A History of Bok Tower Gardens: The First Fifty Years</a>. Lake Wales, Fla: Bok Tower Gardens Foundation, 2002. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Flekke, Mary M., Sarah E. MacDonald, and Randall M. MacDonald. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/85451307" target="_blank">Cypress Gardens</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 6 color digital images Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Hill Cemetery, 2001 Alternative Title Orange Hill Cemetery Subject Orlando (Fla.) Cemeteries--Florida--Orange County Gravestones Tombstones Graves Description Orange Hill Cemetery, located approximately at 1700 East Michigan Street in Orlando, Florida, in 2001. Forty acres of land for the graveyard was purchased by Orange County in 1904 to use for the burial of paupers. The cemetery was active from 1917 to 1961. The first documented burial was of Richard Johnson, who died of "insanity" at the county jail on May 8, 1907. There are limited records of who was buried at Orange Hill Cemetery or how many graves there are, although a survey conducted in 1955 indicated that there were 522 gravesites. In 1997, Orange County officials and the Orange County Historical Society began efforts to properly maintain the cemetery. Creator Cook, Thomas Source Original color image by Thomas Cook, 2001: Private Collection of Thomas Cook. Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2001 Contributor Cook, Thomas Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/102" target="_blank">Thomas Cook Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 264 KB 257 KB 201 KB 249 KB 202 KB 321 KB Medium 6 color digital images Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Orange Hill Cemetery, Orlando, Florida Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Thomas Cook and published by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Thomas Cook and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Lancaster, Cory. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1997-12-28/news/9712260346_1_county-historical-museum-pauper-county-home" target="_blank">Cemetery For Paupers Will Finally Get Respect</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, December 28, 1997. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1997-12-28/news/9712260346_1_county-historical-museum-pauper-county-home. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Transcript ORANGE HLL CEMETERY 1907-1943 Source Repository Private Collection of Thomas Cook cemetery Cook, Thomas grave gravestone graveyard headstone Michigan Street OCHS orange county Orange County Historical Society Orange Hill Orange Hill Cemetery orlando tombstone https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/5cc5b3d8b212e4d0dbccbe0f1f767912.JPG 2b7b6421993d3a07a8ede2b06ef56bf7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Up From the Ashes Collection Alternative Title Up From the Ashes Collection Subject Winter Garden (Fla.) Stores, Retail--United States Railroads--Florida Orange industry--Florida Citrus fruit industry--Florida Garages--United States Fires--United States Description Collection of digital images from the Up From the Ashes exhibit displayed at the Winter Garden Heritage Foundation in Winter Garden, Florida. The exhibit depicts the history of Winter Garden's business district following two devastating fires in 1909 and 1912. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/46" target="_blank">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/105" target="_blank">Winter Garden Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/115" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, Winter Garden Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Winter Garden, Florida Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, Winter Garden, Florida Rights Holder Copyright to these resources are held by the <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> and are provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> External Reference Cappleman, Kay, and Rod Reeves. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/651031169" target="_blank">Sundays in the South: Touring West Orange County</a>. Winter Garden, FL: Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, 2009. "<a href="http://www.cwgdn.com/" target="_blank">Welcome</a>." City of Winter Garden. http://www.cwgdn.com/. Winter Garden Heritage Foundation. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/39368776" target="_blank">All Aboard!: A Journey Through Historic Winter Garden, 1880-1950</a>. Winter Garden, FL: The Foundation, 1997. Contributor <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orange Hotel Alternative Title Orange Hotel Subject Winter Garden (Fla.) Hotels--Florida Description One of Winter Garden's first hotels was the Orange Hotel, located on the east side of South Main Street. The hotel had various types of guests, such as fishermen, salesmen, and regular visitors. The hotel burned down in the fire of 1912. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph: <a href="http://www.wghf.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ASHES-FINAL-POSTER-page-001-JPG1.jpg" target="_blank">Up From the Ashes Exhibit</a>, Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, Winter Garden, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://www.wghf.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ASHES-FINAL-POSTER-page-001-JPG1.jpg" target="_blank">Up From the Ashes Exhibit</a>, Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, Winter Garden, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/124" target="_blank">Up From the Ashes Collection</a>Winter Garden Heritage Foundation Collection, Winter Garden Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph. Coverage Orange Hotel, Winter Garden, Florida Date Created ca. 1880-1912 Format image/jpg Extent 112 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Bowers, Katherine Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.wghf.org/" target="_blank">Winter Garden Heritage Foundation</a> External Reference Cappleman, Kay, and Rod Reeves. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/651031169" target="_blank">Sundays in the South: Touring West Orange County</a>. Winter Garden, FL: Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, 2009. "<a href="http://www.cwgdn.com/" target="_blank">Welcome</a>." City of Winter Garden. http://www.cwgdn.com/. Winter Garden Heritage Foundation. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/39368776" target="_blank">All Aboard!: A Journey Through Historic Winter Garden, 1880-1950</a>. Winter Garden, FL: The Foundation, 1997. hotels Main Street Orange Hotel Up From the Ashes Winter Garden https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/10b72b3e7d33b53d8a27c01b0923baa1.jpg fe39a35ac54be3ce881f26128a7cd9ae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Collection Description The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well, with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as the Church Street Station entertainment complex. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Contributor Cook, Thomas Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Laura Lynn Alternative Title Orlando Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/46" target="_blank">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Has Format <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/69" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/126" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Information Center Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/111" target="_blank">Orlando Regions Bank Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orangewood Village Preliminary Subdivision Plan, 1977 Alternative Title Orangewood Village Subdivision Plan Subject Orlando (Fla.) Housing--Florida Description A 1977 preliminary subdivision plan for Orangewood Village in Orlando, Florida. This residential development is located just south of Freedom High School, off Central Florida Parkway. The real property of Orangewood Village was owned by Florida Land Company and surveyed by Daryl Ganung. Reynolds, Smith & Hills engineered the development. Now called RS&H, Inc., the engineering company was founded in Jacksonville in 1941. Type Still Image Source Original 36 x 30 inch preliminary subdivision plan, January 10, 1977: <a href="http://pinecastlehistory.org/" target="_blank">Pine Castle Historical Society</a>, Pine Castle, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/20" target="_blank">Orlando Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 36 x 30 inch preliminary subdivision plan, January 10, 1977. Coverage Orangewood Village, Orlando, Florida Publisher <a href="http://www.rsandh.com/" target="_blank">Reynolds, Smith & Hills</a> Contributor Lake, Harriett Date Created 1977-01-10 Format image/jpg Extent 1.62 MB Medium 36 x 30 inch preliminary subdivision plan Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance <a href="http://www.rsandh.com/" target="_blank">Reynolds, Smith & Hills</a> Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="http://www.rsandh.com/" target="_blank">RS&H, Inc.</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://pinecastlehistory.org/" target="_blank">Pine Castle Historical Society</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.rsandh.com/about-us/company-history" target="_blank">Company History</a>." RS&H, Inc. http://www.rsandh.com/about-us/company-history. Brendan Court Central Florida Parkway Daryl Ganung Fawn Place Florida Land Company Gardenwood Road Green Bush Court homes houses housing OBT Orange Blossom Trail Orangewood Village orlando Pebble Court Prosper Colony Company Ramblewood Road residential subdivisions Reynolds, Smith & Hills Stepping Stone Court U.S. Route 441 US 441 Whisperwood Lane Woodbrook Court Woodleaf Court Woodway Drive https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/5dfeec3ce19e2c5128585f7718f7b670.jpg 18433e1f058f7f6265effaed939f466a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Weeki Wachee Collection Alternative Title Weeki Wachee Collection Description Along with a group of investors, Newton Perry opened Weeki Wachee Springs to the public in October of 1947. At the time, roadside attractions were becoming popular stops along Florida roadways. The attraction consisted of an amalgamation of vendors, an orchid garden, a river boat tour, as well as the star attraction: a mermaid show that took place in an underwater theater. Eventually, the May Museum of the Tropics, an "abandoned Seminole village", a show called “Birds of Prey”, and a petting zoo were added. After peaking in the 1950s and 1960s, attendance began to decline as theme parks and highways changed the dynamics of Florida's tourism. The State of Florida took over the attraction as a state park in 2008. Since then, the park has focused on appealing to a modern audience while preserving its history. Subject Weeki Wachee (Fla.) Weeki Wachee Springs (Fla.) Tourism--Florida Springs--Florida Parks--Florida Contributor Schumacher, Elmer "Sparky" Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/63" target="_blank">Hernando County Collection</a>, RICHES. Language eng Type Collection Spatial Coverage Weeki Wachee Springs, Spring Hill, Florida Curator Schwandt, Rebecca Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://weekiwachee.com/about-us/history-of-weeki-wachee-springs.html" target="_blank">History of Weeki Wachee Springs</a>." Weeki Wachee Springs State Park. http://weekiwachee.com/about-us/history-of-weeki-wachee-springs.html. Pelland, Maryan, and Dan Pelland. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/67516850" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2005. Vickers, Lu, and Bonnie Georgiadis. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/780478262" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Mermaids: Thirty Years of Underwater Photography</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2012. Contributing Project Rebecca Schwandt's Thesis Project Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orchid Gardens at Weeki Wachee Springs Alternative Title Weeki Wachee Spring's Orchid Gardens Subject Weeki Wachee Springs (Fla.) Tourism--Florida Springs--Florida Parks--Florida Buildings--Florida Entomology Description Orchid Gardens at Weeki Wachee Springs. The hothouse, which allowed visitors to view a variety of orchids, was one of the original attractions to join the mermaid show at Weeki Wachee Springs. The May Natural History Museum of the Tropics is a non-profit organization that displays the world’s largest private insect collection. James May acquired the thousands of insects and arthropods that make up the collection from the late 1800s until his death in 1956. John May continued his father’s legacy, building a museum in Weeki Wachee, Florida, that lasted from 1954-1964, and a museum in Colorado that opened in the 1950s and is still open today. John May also took parts of the collection across the United States and Canada to display at fairs and exhibitions. Along with a group of investors, Newton Perry opened Weeki Wachee Springs to the public in October of 1947. At the time, roadside attractions were becoming popular stops along Florida roadways. The attraction consisted of an amalgamation of vendors, an orchid garden, a river boat tour, as well as the star attraction: a mermaid show that took place in an underwater theater. Eventually, the May Museum of the Tropics, an "abandoned Seminole village", a show called “Birds of Prey”, and a petting zoo were added. After peaking in the 1950s and 1960s, attendance began to decline as theme parks and highways changed the dynamics of Florida's tourism. The State of Florida took over the attraction as a state park in 2008. Since then, the park has focused on appealing to a modern audience while preserving its history. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph by John M. May: <a href="https://coloradospringsbugmuseum.com//">May Natural History Museum</a> Colorado Springs, Colorado. Requires Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/63" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Collection</a>, Hernando County Collection, RICHES. Has Format Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph by John M. May. Coverage Orchid Gardens, Weeki Wachee Springs State Park, Weeki Wachee, Florida Creator May, John M. Publisher <a href="https://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES</a> Date Created ca.1954-1964 Date Copyrighted ca. 1954-1964 Format image/jpg Extent 2.23 MB Medium black and white photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Provenance Originally created by John M. May and published by <a href="https://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://coloradospringsbugmuseum.com/">May Natural History Museum</a> and is provided here by <a href="https://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Rebecca Schwandt's Thesis Project Curator Schwandt, Rebecca Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="https://coloradospringsbugmuseum.com/">May Natural History Museum</a> External Reference Allman, T.D. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/873617194" target="_blank">Finding Florida: The True History of the Sunshine State</a>. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press, 2013. Ammidown, Margot. "<a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/1504171?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents" target="_blank">Edens, Underworlds, and Shrines: Florida’s Small Tourist Attractions</a>." The Journal of Decorative and Propaganda Arts 23, 1998, 238-259. Accessed November 9, 2018. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1504171?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents. Georgiadis, Bonnie and Lu Vickers. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/780478262" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee mermaids: thirty years of underwater photography</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2012. Hollis, Tim. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/61130658" target="_blank">Glass Bottom Boats &amp Mermaid Tails: Florida's Tourist Springs</a>. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2006. Pelland, Maryan. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/995504665" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee Springs</a>. Arcadia Publishing Inc, 2006. . Revels, Tracy J. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/666240031" target="_blank">Sunshine Paradise: A History of Florida Tourism</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2011. Vickers, Lu, and Sara Dionne. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/71237360" target="_blank">Weeki Wachee, City of Mermaids: A History of One of Florida's Oldest Roadside Attractions</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2007. Florida tourism John M. May natural springs Orchid Gardens orchids parks Rebecca Schwandt roadside attractions roadside tourism tourist attractions Weeki Wachee Springs State Park https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/d0455347a0cae670ea58361f095ec808.jpg 42b90822f47e08ed7404cc509810d3de Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Veterans Legacy Program Collection Alternative Title VLP Collection Subject Veterans--Florida Description In 2017, the University of Central Florida was one of three universities selected to launch the National Cemetery Administration’s <a href="https://vlp.cah.ucf.edu/">Veterans Legacy Program Project</a>. The program engaged a team of scholars to make the life stories of veterans buried in the Florida National Cemetery available to the public. The project engages UCF students in research and writing and fosters collaboration between students, faculty and local Central Florida schools to produce interactive curriculum for k-12 students. The corresponding website exhibit uses RICHES Mosaic Interface to create a digital archive of related data. The public can use the project-developed augmented-reality app at more than 100 gravesites at the Florida National Cemetery, where they can access the UCF student-authored biographies of veterans. Is Part Of Veterans Legacy Program Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"><a href="https://vlp.cah.ucf.edu/">Veterans Legacy Program Project</a></div> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Order to Report Subject World War, 1914-1918 Veterans--Florida Description In 2017, the University of Central Florida was one of three universities selected to launch the National Cemetery Administration’s <a href="https://vlp.cah.ucf.edu/">Veterans Legacy Program Project</a>. The program engaged a team of scholars to make the life stories of veterans buried in the Florida National Cemetery available to the public. The project engages UCF students in research and writing and fosters collaboration between students, faculty and local Central Florida schools to produce interactive curriculum for k-12 students. The corresponding website exhibit uses RICHES Mosaic Interface to create a digital archive of related data. The public can use the project-developed augmented-reality app at more than 100 gravesites at the Florida National Cemetery, where they can access the UCF student-authored biographies of veterans. Type Still Image Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/210" target="_blank">Veterans Legacy Program Collection</a> Language eng Mediator History Teacher Accrual Method Donation https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/6a1e97ac430977367c527524bbc9a3cd.jpg e6a88a3a987cecbaeef21472ab1fa36e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Hotel Forrest Lake Collection Description Originally named after the Sanford Mayor and president of Seminole County Bank, the Forrest Lake Hotel has also been known as the Mayfair Inn and was briefly occupied by the Sanford Naval Academy. In 1916, construction of the building began. Local architect Elton J. Moughton designed the hotel. In 1925, Hotel Forrest Lake opened and became a popular destination for tourists visiting Sanford. By 1929, the hotel closed after the stock market crash and the downfall of Florida's tourism and real estate boom. William E. Kirchhoff leased the building in 1934 and the hotel reopened in 1935 with the new name Mayfair Hotel. Under Kirchhoff's ownership, the Mayfair Hotel became known as one of the finest hotels in the South. Kirchhoff sold the hotel in 1948 to Horace Stoneham, owner of the New York Giants. Stoneham then sold the building to the Bernard McFadden Foundation, who later sold it to the New Tribes Mission. The New Tribes Mission's goal is to reach tribes who have no access to the Gospel through translated publications and missionary work. Contributor <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> <a href="http://usa.ntm.org/" target="_blank">New Tribes Mission</a> Headquarters <a href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.aspx?page=456" target="_blank">Sanford Museum</a> <a href="http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/" target="_blank">State Library and Archives of Florida</a> <a href="http://www.usf.edu/" target="_blank">University of South Florida</a> Alternative Title Forrest Lake Hotel Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Hotels--Florida Tourism--Florida Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida Language eng Type Collection Coverage Forrest Lake Hotel, Sanford, Florida Mayfair Inn, Sanford, Florida Mayfair Hotel, Sanford, Florida Sanford Naval Academy, Sanford, Florida New Tribes Mission, Sanford, Florida Curator Marra, Katherine Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Sanford Historic Preservation Board. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">The Sanford Historic Preservation Board Presents the Sanford Historic Downtown Walking Tour</a>." http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). <a title="Sanford" href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Original Dinnerware from the Mayfair Inn Alternative Title Mayfair Inn Dinnerware Subject Tourism--Florida Hotels--Florida Resorts--Florida Description Original dinnerware from the Mayfair Inn. When the New York Giants acquired the building in 1948, visitors enjoyed comfortable rooms with cheaper rates than the resorts in Miami. Room rates at the Mayfair Inn also included meals and a game of golf per day. During the 1950s, the Mayfair Inn hosted many social events. Locals and visitors alike visited the hotel and attended cocktail parties, dinners, and dances. Originally named after the Sanford Mayor and president of Seminole County Bank, construction of the Forrest Lake Hotel began in 1916. Local architect Elton J. Moughton designed the hotel. In 1925, Hotel Forrest Lake opened and became a popular destination for tourists visiting Sanford. By 1929, the hotel closed after the stock market crash and the downfall of Florida's tourism and real estate boom. William E. Kirchhoff leased the building in 1934 and the hotel reopened in 1935 with the new name Mayfair Hotel. Under Kirchhoff's ownership, the Mayfair Hotel became known as one of the finest hotels in the South. Kirchhoff sold the hotel in 1948 to Horace Stoneham, owner of the New York Giants. Stoneham then sold the building to the Bernard McFadden Foundation. After the Naval Air Station Sanford acquired $1.3 million to fund the construction of a naval academy in 1963, the Foundation made significant alterations to the building to house students from the Sanford Naval Academy. The Foundation later sold the building to the New Tribes Mission in 1977. The New Tribes Mission's goal is to reach tribes who have no access to the Gospel through translated publications and missionary work. Abstract Original dinnerware painted...with palms of Lake Monroe. Source Original black and white photograph, 1976. Publisher The Seminole Little Sentinel Date Issued 1976-06-20 Is Format Of Digital reproduction of print reproduction of original black and white photograph: The Seminole Little Sentinel, 1976. Format image/jpeg Extent 744 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Sanford, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.811748, -81.257222 Temporal Coverage 1948-01-01/1963-12-31 Accrual Method Donation Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by The Seminole Little Sentinel and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> External Reference Sanford Historical Society (Fla.). Sanford. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. Sanford Historic Preservation Board. "The Sanford Historic Preservation Board Presents the Sanford Historic Downtown Walking Tour." http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. External Reference Title <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53015288" target="_blank">Sanford</a> "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Hotel Forrest Lake - 1925</a>" Transcript Mayfair Inn Has Format Print reproduction of original black and white photograph: The Seminole Little Sentinel, 1976: Mayfair Inn Collection, <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. Is Part Of Mayfair Inn Collection, <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a>, Sanford, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/12" target="_blank">Hotel Forrest Lake Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. dining Dinnerware Mayfair Inn New York Giants https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/cf7720fc1cc6203ace3e6746cfce9744.jpg 53910f78bdf1053f6d016ed5fd31e271 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Milane Theatre Collection Alternative Title Milane Collection Subject Sanford (Fla.) Buildings--Florida Theaters--Florida Film industry (Motion pictures) Description The Milane Theatre was built at 203 South Magnolia Avenue, the former location of the Star Theatre, an abandoned movie house. Scroggs and Ewing, architects from Georgia, prepared the plans for the Milane. The name of the new theater was derived from the combination of the Milane Amusement Company president and vice president: Frank L. Miller and Edward F. Lane, respectively. The Milane opened in July of 1923 and seated 823 patrons. In 1933, the Milane was sold to Frank and Stella Evans, investors from Lake Mary, Florida. The new owners renamed their business the Ritz Theater and held the property until the 1990s. However, the Ritz struggled financially in the 1960s and closed in 1978 due to failure to compete with the new multiplex theaters. The building remained vacant until 1984, when it reopened as the Showtime Cantina. The Showtime Cantina closed in 1988 and remained vacant and in decay. In the mid-1990s, Ritz Community Theater Projects, Inc. acquired the property and began rehabilitation in 1998. On May 6, 2000, the theater reopened as the Helen Stairs Theatre in honor of the citizen who led the restoration project, Helen Stairs. The following year, the location was placed on the National Register of Historic Places. In 2008, additional renovations were completed and the theater was renamed the Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center in honor of the Wayne Densch Charitable Trust Fund for contributing to the renovations fund. Language eng Coverage Opera House, Downtown Sanford, Florida Star Theatre, Downtown Sanford, Florida Milane Theatre, Downtown Sanford, Florida Ritz Theatre, Downtown Sanford, Florida Showtime Cantina, Downtown Sanford, Florida Helen Stairs Theatre, Downtown Sanford, Florida Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center, Downtown Sanford, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Contributor Cepero, Laura Lynn <a href="http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/departments-services/leisure-services/parks-recreation/museum-of-seminole-county-history/" target="_blank">Museum of Seminole County History</a> <a href="http://thehistorycenter.org/">Orange County Regional History Center</a> <a href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.aspx?page=456">Sanford Museum</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Sanford Collection</a>, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. External Reference "<a href="http://www.stageclick.com/venue/457.aspx" target="_blank">Helen Stairs Theatre</a>." StageClick. http://www.stageclick.com/venue/457.aspx. "<a href="http://www.wdpac.com/footer-menu/theater-history/" target="_blank">Theater History</a>." Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center. http://www.wdpac.com/footer-menu/theater-history/. "<a href="http://www.wdpac.com/footer-menu/theater-history/" target="_blank">Theater History</a>." Seminole County: Florida's Natural Choice. http://www.visitseminole.com/listingdetail/53/wayne-densch-performing-arts-center.aspx. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color digital image Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Original Ladder at the Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center Alternative Title Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center Ladder Subject Sanford (Fla.) Buildings--Florida Performing Arts--United States Theater--21st century Description An original ladder backstage at the Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center in 2011. Originally the Milane Theatre, the building was constructed at 203 South Magnolia Avenue in Sanford, the former location of the Star Theatre, an abandoned movie house. Scroggs and Ewing, architects from Georgia, prepared the plans for the Milane. The name of the new theater was derived from the combination of the presidents of the Milane Amusement Company president and vice president: Frank L. Miller and Edward F. Lane. The Milane opened in July of 1923 and seated 823 patrons. In 1933, the Milane was sold to Frank and Stella Evans, investors from Lake Mary, Florida. The new owners renamed their business the Ritz Theatre and held the property until the 1990s. However, the Ritz struggled financially in the 1960s and closed in 1978 due to failure to compete with the new multiplex theaters. The building remained vacant until 1984, when it reopened as the Showtime Cantina. The Showtime Cantina closed in 1988 and remained vacant and in decay. In the mid-1990s, Ritz Community Theater Projects, Inc. acquired the property and began rehabilitation in 1998. On May 6, 2000, the theater reopened as the Helen Stairs Theatre in honor of the citizen who led the restoration project, Helen Stairs. The following year, the location was placed on the National Register of Historic Places. In 2008, additional renovations were completed at the theater was renamed the Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center in honor of the Wayne Densch Charitable Trust Fund for contributing to the renovations fund. Creator Cepero, Laura Publisher <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Date Created 2011-06-09 Format image/jpg Extent 730 KB Medium 1 color digital image Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center, Sanford, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.810527, -81.266859 Temporal Coverage 2008-01-01/2011-06-09 Accrual Method Item Creation Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Laura Cepero and owned by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Rights Holder <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES of Central Florida</a> Contributing Project <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/buildingblocks.php">Building Blocks</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.stageclick.com/venue/457.aspx">Helen Stairs Theatre</a>." StageClick. http://www.stageclick.com/venue/457.aspx. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52633016">Sanford: Our First 125 Years</a>. Sanford, Florida: Seminole Herald, 2002. "<a href="http://www.wdpac.com/footer-menu/theater-history/">Theater History</a>." Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center. http://www.wdpac.com/footer-menu/theater-history/. "<a href="http://www.visitseminole.com/things-to-do/general/wayne-densch-performing-arts-center">Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center</a>." Seminole County: Florida's Natural Choice. http://www.visitseminole.com/things-to-do/general/wayne-densch-performing-arts-center. Source Original color digital image by Laura Cepero, June 9, 2011. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/42">Milane Theatre Collection</a>, Sanford Collection, Seminole County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Cepero, Laura Magnolia Avenue Wayne Densch Performing Arts Center https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e73baacbaa62f831246b7071f0be06f7.jpg 57f55f0bca75986763dd168384f70574 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Rock Collection Alternative Title Rock Collection Subject Music--United States Rock music--United States Lakeland (Fla.) Maitland (Fla.) Orlando (Fla.) Description Collection of digital images, documents, and other records depicting the history of rock music in Central Florida. Series descriptions are based on special topics, the majority of which students focused their metadata entries around. Rock music is uniquely American, emerging in the late 1940s and 1950s, with the influence of African-American blues, jazz, boogie woogie, and gospel, mixed with predominantly white country and Western swing music. This hybrid genre helped define a generation, breaking down color barriers in the South by merging African musical traditions with European instrumentation. The popularization of rock music coincided with the African-American Civil Rights Movement, which sought to end racial segregation and discrimination in the South. The sudden interest of white teens in black “race music” provoked a backlash among traditionalists and Americans found themselves in the middle of a “culture war.” The counterculture youth of the 1950s and 1960s rejected many of the mainstream cultural standards of their parents’ generation, especially in regards to race. During the First and Second Great Migration of the 20th century, African Americans and whites began living in closer proximity to one another, more so than ever before, resulting in both races emulating the other’s style in fashion, art, and music. Rock music influenced the language, attitudes, ideas, and trends of a generation. The genre continued to evolve, incorporating new elements with each subsequent decade. During the 1960s, the subgenres of folk rock, jazz rock, country rock, blues rock, psychedelic rock, glam rock, and progressive rock emerged. Musicians in the 1970s and 1980s created punk rock, Southern rock, heavy metal, new wave, and alternative rock. By the 1990s, artist continued to expand the genre by creating rap rock, reggae rock, grunge, and indie rock. Florida has been at the heart of rock music and the “culture war” since the 1950s. The recording industry was actively making rock records in Tampa during the 1960s and in Miami during the 1970s. Gram Parsons, a native of Winter Haven, is credited as the father of the country rock movement of the late 1960s, and Southern rock emerged from Jacksonville during the 1970s and 1980s, with bands such as the Allman Brothers Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Outlaws, and Molly Hatchet. These contributions played an integral part in the history of rock music. Contributor Knickerbocker, Carl Wahl, Julie Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/140" target="_blank">Central Florida Music History Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Type Collection Coverage Bob Carr Theater, Orlando, Florida Enzian Theater, Maitland, Florida Great Southern Music Hall, Orlando, Florida Lakeland Civic Center, Lakeland, Florida Orange County Civic Center, Orlando, Florida Orlando-Seminole Jai Alai Fronton, Fern Park, Florida Orlando Sports Stadium, Orlando, Florida Tangerine Bowl, Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Altschuler, Glenn C. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51518334" target="_blank">All Shook Up: How Rock 'n' Roll Changed America</a>. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003. Fisher, Marc. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/69594101" target="_blank">Something in the Air: Radio, Rock, and the Revolution That Shaped a Generation</a>. New York: Random House, 2007. Studwell, William E., and D. F. Lonergan. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/41090615" target="_blank">The Classic Rock and Roll Reader: Rock Music from Its Beginnings to the Mid-1970s</a>. New York: Haworth Press, 1999. Language eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Original Members of The Outlaws, 1967 Alternative Title Original Members of The Outlaws Subject Outlaws (Musical group) Tampa Bay (Fla.) Music--Florida Rock music--United States Musicians--Southern States Dix, David Description The Outlaws, featuring the original five members in 1967. Formed in Tampa, Florida, in 1967 by guitarist and lead vocalist, Hugh "Hughie" Edward Thomasson, Jr., The Outlaws peaked in popularity in the mid-to-late 1970s, with hits such as "Green Grass and High Tides," "There Goes Another Love Song," and "(Ghost) Riders in the Sky." Known by fans as "The Florida Guitar Army," the band's three-part harmonies distinguished them from their Southern rock contemporaries. The band experienced more personnel changes than most musical groups, with at least 45 different members between 1967 and 2015. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph: <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/bands-artists.php" target="_blank">Profiles: Bands & Artists</a>, Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society. Is Part Of <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/bands-artists.php" target="_blank">Profiles: Bands & Artists</a>, Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/142" target="_blank">Rock Collection</a>, Central Florida Music History Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of Original black and white photograph. <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/resources/The%20Outlaws.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/resources/The%20Outlaws.jpg</a>. Coverage Tampa, Florida Publisher <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/" target="_blank">Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society</a> Date Created ca. 1967 Format image/jpg Extent 99.2 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Humanities Teacher Music Teacher Provenance Published digitally by <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/" target="_blank">Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society</a>. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/" target="_blank">Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Cravero, Geoffrey Digital Collection <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/" target="_blank">Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/" target="_blank">Tampa Bay Music Scene Historical Society</a> External Reference Smith, Michael Buffalo. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/884617128" target="_blank">Rebel Yell: An Oral History of Southern Rock</a>. 2014. Bomar, Scott B., and Doug Gray. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/855957989" target="_blank">Southbound: An Illustrated History of Southern Rock</a>. 2014. "<a href="http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/the-outlaws.php" target="_blank">The Outlaws</a>." http://www.tampabaymusichistory.com/the-outlaws.php. band country country music country rock Dix, David Guidry, Frank Holmberg, Phil music musician O'Brien, Hobie Pino, Herb rock rock band rock music Southern rock The Florida Guitar Army The Outlaws Thomasson, Hugh "Hughie" Edward, Jr. Thomasson, Hughie https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c72b9dffc3170cdc64732ee9cad1af4c.jpg 1a325fe81845aeb55fcb2ee7482482fc Omeka Image File The metadata element set that was included in the `files_images` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all image files. Width 947 Height 768 Bit Depth 8 Channels 3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Belair Grove Collection Alternative Title Belair Collection Subject Lake Mary (Fla.) Sanford (Fla.) Citrus fruit industry--Florida Agriculture--Florida Chase and Company (Sanford, Fla.) Citrus--Florida Description In 1870, Henry Shelton Sanford purchased 12,547.15 square acres of land known as the Sanford Grant. The acreage included an experiment station called Belair Grove, located just three miles southwest of the city and named after Sanford. By 1889, Sanford extended his land purchase to 145 acres and contained mainly orange and lemon trees. In Belair alone, Sanford introduced over 140 varieties of citrus plants. All were tested to determine if Florida citrus growers could introduce new varieties into the growing citrus market. Sanford also grew exotic plants acquired from Central and South America, many of which survived the 1886 freeze. Sanford mainly used Belair as his own experiment station, but ultimately the findings and reports would be used by other citrus growers throughout Florida. Eventually, following Sanford's death in 1891, his wife, Gertrude Sanford, sold Belair to Sydney and Joshua Chase. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/23" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/93" target="_blank">Citrus Collection</a>, Chase Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. References <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">A Guide to the Chase Collection</a> Language eng Type Collection Coverage Belair Grove, Lake Mary, Florida Sanford, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida <a href="http://ufdc.ufl.edu/" target="_blank">Digital Collections (UFDC)</a>, University of Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Marra, Katherine Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository University of Florida, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> External Reference "<a href="http://floridacitrushalloffame.com/index.php/inductees/inductee-name/?ref_cID=89&bID=0&dd_asId=600" target="_blank">Sydney Chase Sr. (1860-1941)</a>." Florida Citrus Hall of Fame. Copyright 2012. http://floridacitrushalloffame.com/index.php/inductees/inductee-name/?ref_cID=89&bID=0&dd_asId=600. Westgate, Philip J., and R. Bruce Ledin. "<a href="http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1953%20Vol.%2066/184-187%20(WESTGATE).pdf" target="_blank">Belair Groves, Sanford, Pioneer in Sub-Tropical Horticultural Introductions</a>." Florida State Horticultural Society 66 (1953): 184-187. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1634737" target="_blank">Some Account of Belair, Also of the City of Sanford Florida, With a Brief Sketch of Their Founder</a>. Sanford, Florida: 1889. <a title="Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway" href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/media/pdf/leisure_services/20110407_historic_brochure.pdf" target="_blank">Sanford: Central Florida's Waterfront Gateway</a>. Sanford, Florida: City of Sanford, 2005. Contributor <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida Provenance Entire <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a> is comprised of four separate accessions from various donors, including Cecilia Johnson, the granddaughter of Joshua Coffin Chase and the children of Randall Chase. Rights Holder The displayed collection is housed at <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> at the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. Rights to this item belong to the said institution, and therefore inquiries about the item should be directed there. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> has obtained permission from Special and Area Studies Collections at the University of Florida to display this item for educational purposes only. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Original Orange Seedling at Belair Grove Alternative Title Orange Seedling at Belair Subject Lake Mary (Fla.) Chase and Company (Sanford, Fla.) Citrus fruit industry--Florida Agriculture--Florida Orange trees Description Original orange seedling planted by Henry Sanford at Belair Grove. In 1870, Henry Shelton Sanford purchased 23 square acres of land known as the Sanford Grant. The acreage included an experiment station called Belair located just three miles southwest of the city named after Sanford. By 1889, Sanford extended his land purchase to 145 acres and contained mainly orange and lemon trees. In Belair alone, Sanford introduced over 140 varieties of citrus plants. All were tested to determine if Florida citrus growers could introduce new varieties into the growing citrus market. Sanford also grew exotic plants acquired from Central and South America, many of which survived the 1886 freeze, including the camellia bushes. Sanford mainly used Belair as his own experiment station, but ultimately the findings and reports would be used by other citrus growers throughout Florida. Eventually, Sanford handed over the operations of Belair to Sydney and Joshua Chase. In 1894 and 1895, Central Florida was hit by several freezes and most of the citrus crop was destroyed. Chase & Company did not grow citrus crops again until 1904 when Joshua came back from an extended stay in California. When Sydney Chase died in 1941, the family-operated company was handed down to his sons, Sydney Chase, Jr., Randall Chase, and Franklin Chase. Abstract Written on back of photograph, "Original seedling tree Belair Grove." Creator Chase & Company Source Original black and white photograph by Chase & Company, January 1953: Chase Collection (MS 14), box 211, folder 3.3C, item CC83, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, George A. Smathers Libraries, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida. Date Created 1953-01 Is Referenced By Folder referenced in Chase Collection finding guide, <a title="A Guide to the Chase Collection" href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm</a>. Format image/jpeg Extent 237 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Language eng Type Still Image Coverage Lake Mary, Florida Spatial Coverage 28.779371, -81.301996 Temporal Coverage 1953-01-01/1953-01-31 Accrual Method Donation Provenance Entire <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/pkyonge/chase.htm" target="_blank">Chase Collection</a> is comprised of four separate accessions from various donors, including Cecilia Johnson, the granddaughter of Joshua Coffin Chase and the children of Randall Chase. Rights Holder The displayed collection item is housed at <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> at the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. Rights to this item belong to the said institution, and therefore inquiries about the item should be directed there. <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> has obtained permission from Special and Area Studies Collections at the University of Florida to display this item for educational purposes only. Contributing Project <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, University of Florida <a href="http://ufdc.ufl.edu/" target="_blank">Digital Collections (UFDC)</a>, University of Florida Curator Marra, Katherine Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository University of Florida, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a> External Reference Westgate, Philip J., and R. Bruce Ledin. "Belair Groves, Sanford, Pioneer in Sub-Tropical Horticultural Introductions." Florida State Horticultural Society 66 (1953): 184-187. Some Account of Belair, Also of the City of Sanford Florida, With a Brief Sketch of Their Founder. Sanford, Florida: 1889. Warner, S.C. "Development of Marketing Citrus Fruits in Florida." Florida State Horticultural Society vol. 36 (1923): 198-200. External Reference Title "<a href="http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1953%20Vol.%2066/184-187%20(WESTGATE).pdf" target="_blank">Belair Groves, Sanford, Pioneer in Sub-Tropical Horticultural Introductions</a>" <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1634737" target="_blank">Some Account of Belair</a> "<a href="http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1923%20Vol.%2036/198-200%20%28WARNER%29.pdf" target="_blank">Development of Marketing Citrus Fruits in Florida</a>" Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph by Chase & Company, January 1953. Is Part Of Chase Collection (MS 14), box 211, folder 3.3C, <a href="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/" target="_blank">Special and Area Studies Collections</a>, George A. Smathers Libraries, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/15" target="_blank">Belair Collection</a>, Citrus Collection, Chase Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Belair Experiment Station Belair Grove Chase & Company Chase and Co. Chase Investment Company citrus grove Sanford Grant https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/418eb1a8e8ddf1f5da682f90575a0d49.jpg 0808e493ad97cd990e7dd789928b7457 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Collection Description The Orlando area was originally occupied by the Creek and Seminole tribes. In 1838, Fort Gatlin was erected on the shores of Lake Gatlin, just a few miles south of present-day Downtown Orlando. Centered around Church Street, Orlando became a city in 1884. Originally a cattle town, Orlando grew into a major citrus growing center by the 1920s. The city continued to grow during the Great Depression with aid from the Work Progress Administration (WPA). During World War II, Orlando became a major military center as well, with the development of the McCoy Air Force Base and Pinecastle Air Force Base, and with the addition of the Naval Training Center (NTC) Orlando in 1968. Downtown Orlando declined in the 1960s and 1970s. Redevelopment began in the 1970s and continued into the 1980s, with projects such as the Church Street Station entertainment complex. In 1998, a building boom began and continued through the 2000s. Contributor Cook, Thomas Cepero, Nancy Lynn Cepero, Laura Lynn Alternative Title Orlando Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/46" target="_blank">Orange County Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando, Florida Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. "<a href="http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Historic District Walking Tour</a>." City of Orlando. http://sanfordhistory.tripod.com/Links/wtour.pdf. Has Format <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/69" target="_blank">Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/126" target="_blank">Downtown Orlando Information Center Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/111" target="_blank">Orlando Regions Bank Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 color postcard Physical Dimensions 10 x 14 centimeters Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Station Postcard Alternative Title ACL Railway Station Postcard Subject Orlando (Fla.) Railroads--Florida Description A color postcard featuring the Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) Railway Company station, located at 1400 Sligh Boulevard in Orlando, Florida, in the 1930s. This station was constructed in 1926 at a cost of $500,000 and was originally part of the ACL system. However, in 1967, the station joined the Seaboard Coast Line (SCL) Railroad, after a merger between the SCL and the ACL. With stucco facade and towers flanking its entrance, the station has been studied many times for its Mission Revival-style architecture. After being in operation for 65 years, the Orlando Amtrak station was in desperate need of renovations. In 1991, a collective of local organizations, companies and groups came together to fund the needed renovations. Abstract Color postcard of A.C.L. Railway Station, Orlando, Fla. depicting genre scene of people waiting to board a train. Type Still Image Source Original 10 x 14 centimeter color postcard: "A.C.L. Railway Station, Orlando, Fla. 'The City Beautiful.'" Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida: <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections & University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">Special Collections & University Archives</a>, University of Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/16" target="_blank">Orlando Collection</a>, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original 10 x 14 centimeter color postcard: "A.C.L. Railway Station, Orlando, Fla. 'The City Beautiful.'" Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida. Has Format Digital reproduction of original 10 x 14 centimeter color postcard: "<a href="http://digital.library.ucf.edu/cdm/ref/collection/CFM/id/30021" target="_blank">A.C.L. Railway Station, Orlando, Fla. 'The City Beautiful'.</a>" Orange News Company, Orlando, Florida: Tag number DP0004817, Central Florida Memory. Coverage Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Company Station, Orlando, Florida Publisher Orange News Company Contributor Curteich Date Created ca. 1930-1939 Date Copyrighted ca. 1930-1949 Format image/jpg Extent 64.5 KB Medium 10 x 14 centimeter color postcard Language eng Mediator History Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally published by the Orange News Company. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections & University Archives</a> and is provided here by RICHES of Central Florida for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections & University Archives</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="http://www.cfmemory.org/" target="_blank">Central Florida Memory</a> <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository <a href="http://library.ucf.edu/about/departments/special-collections-university-archives/" target="_blank">University of Central Florida, Special Collections and University Archives</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.greatamericanstations.com/Stations/ORL" target="_blank">Orlando, FL (ORL)</a>." Great American Stations, Amtrak®. http://www.greatamericanstations.com/Stations/ORL. Mulligan, Michael. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/225874809" target="_blank">Railroad Depots of Central Florida</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/184906141" target="_blank">A Journey into Florida Railroad History</a>. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2008. Turner, Gregg M. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52260683" target="_blank">A Short History of Florida Railroads</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub, 2003. Murdock, R. Ken. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38291666" target="_blank">Outline History of Central Florida Railroads</a>. Winter Garden, Fla: Central Florida Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, 1997. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477" target="_blank">RICHES Podcast Documentaries, Episode 25: The Railways of Central Florida</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/2477. "<a href="http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/our-evolution-and-history/interactive-timeline/" target="_blank">Our Evolution and History: CSX</a>." CSX http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/our-evolution-and-history/interactive-timeline/. "<a href="http://www.american-rails.com/atlantic-coast-line.html" target="_blank">The Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, Standard Railroad of the South</a>." The American Railroads: A Long and Storied History. http://www.american-rails.com/atlantic-coast-line.html. "<a href="http://www.american-rails.com/seaboard-air-line.html" target="_blank">The Seaboard Air Line Railroad, Through The Heart Of The South</a>." American-Rails.com. http://www.american-rails.com/seaboard-air-line.html. Transcript O.129—A. C. L. Railway Station, Orlando, Fla. "The City Beautiful" ACL ailroad stations Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Company Curteich Orange News Company orlando railroad station railroads rails railways The City Beautiful https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b26c80386c89cdd5c6c2074128409f49.pdf 8f9c61b2eda85edc4cd8ac296550cf40 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Westinghouse Electric Collection Alternative Title Westinghouse Collection Subject Westinghouse Electric Corporation Description Originally called the Westinghouse Electric Company, George Westinghouse (1846-1914) founded his manufacturing company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on January 8, 1886. In 1889, he renamed his business the The Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company. Westinghouse's primary products include turbines, generators, motors and switchgear related to the generation, transmission, and use of electricity. The company changed its name to Westinghouse Electric Corporation in 1945. In 1981, the company began to relocate its divison headquarters for the Steam-Turbine Generator Divisions from Pennsylvania (turbines from Lester and generators from Pittsburgh) to Orlando, Florida. The Power Generation Business Unit (PGBU) building was located in The Quadrangle, at 4400 Alafaya Trail. Originally, Westinghouse had purchased a large plot of land for future development that extended westward from Alafaya Trail to Rouse Road. The original headquarters was located on several acres of that land parcel close to Alafaya Trail. In 1994, after a major corporate management shuffling, and a top-level decision to change from an industrial manufacturing company to primarily a broadcasting/communications company, Westinghouse bought the CBS Network and changed its name to the CBS Corporation. As the PGBU grew in size, other buildings in the area were leased and then, after PGBU was sold to Siemens Corporation of Germany in 1998, additional buildings (Quad II and Quad III) were added to the original complex at the Quadrangle. From 1998 to 2003 the Orlando operation was known as Siemens-Westinghouse, after which the name of Westinghouse was dropped. The operation has been known as Siemens from that time forward. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a>. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando, Florida Curator DeRosa, Peter Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.westinghousenuclear.com/About/History" target="_blank">History</a>." Westinghouse Nuclear. http://www.westinghousenuclear.com/About/History. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/6422" target="_blank">Westinghouse Power Generation Booklet</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/6422. Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Original Format 10-page booklet Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Centennial Scrapbook: Westinghouse Centennial, 1886-1986 Alternative Title Westinghouse Centennial Subject Westinghouse Electric Corporation Westinghouse, George, 1846-1914 Description In commemoration of the 100-year anniversary of the Westinghouse Electric Corporation, this booklet was created to tell the highlights of the contribution of George Westinghouse (1846-1914) , identify the many connected families in the employee ranks, and to report on the celebration that marked the event and progress of the organization. Originally called the Westinghouse Electric Company, George Westinghouse (1846-1914) founded his manufacturing company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on January 8, 1886. In 1889, he renamed his business The Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company. Westinghouse's primary products include turbines, generators, motors and switchgear related to the generation, transmission, and use of electricity. The company changed its name to Westinghouse Electric Corporation in 1945. In 1981, the company began to relocate its division headquarters for the Steam-Turbine Generator Divisions from Pennsylvania (turbines from Lester and generators from Pittsburgh) to Orlando, Florida. The Power Generation Business Unit (PGBU) building was located in The Quadrangle, at 4400 Alafaya Trail. Originally, Westinghouse had purchased a large plot of land for future development that extended westward from Alafaya Trail to Rouse Road. The original headquarters was located on several acres of that land parcel close to Alafaya Trail. In 1994, after a major corporate management shuffling, and a top-level decision to change from an industrial manufacturing company to primarily a broadcasting/communications company, Westinghouse bought the CBS Network and changed its name to the CBS Corporation. As the PGBU grew in size, other buildings in the area were leased and then, after PGBU was sold to Siemens Corporation of Germany in 1998, additional buildings (Quad II and Quad III) were added to the original complex at the Quadrangle. From 1998 to 2003 the Orlando operation was known as Siemens-Westinghouse, after which the name of Westinghouse was dropped. The operation has been known as Siemens from that time forward. Type Text Source Original 10-page booklet: Scalise, Jan, ed. Orlando Centennial Scrapbook: Westinghouse Centennial, 1886-1986 (Orlando: Human Resources Communications, Westinghouse Orlando, 1986): Private Collection of George E. Baker. Requires <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat Reader</a> Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/169" target="_blank">Westinghouse Electric Collection</a>, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 10-page booklet: Scalise, Jan, ed. Orlando Centennial Scrapbook: Westinghouse Centennial, 1886-1986 (Orlando: Human Resources Communications, Westinghouse Orlando, 1986). Coverage Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Westinghouse Power Generation Business Unit, Orlando, Florida Publisher Westinghouse Electric Corporation Contributor Scalise, Jan Baker, George E. Date Created ca. 1986 Date Copyrighted ca. 1986 Format application/pdf Extent 3.06 MB Medium 10-page booklet Language eng Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Science Teacher Provenance Originally edited by Jan Scalise and published by Westinghouse Electric Corporation. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by Westinghouse Electric Corporation and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Curator Baker, George E. Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Private Collection of George E. Baker External Reference "<a href="http://www.westinghousenuclear.com/About/History" target="_blank">History</a>." Westinghouse Nuclear. http://www.westinghousenuclear.com/About/History. "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/6422" target="_blank">Westinghouse Power Generation Booklet</a>." RICHES of Central Florida. https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/items/show/6422. 100 Years of Quality Paper Drop Contest Air Brake Company air brakes Al Lagore Alafaya Trail alternating currently AC Always Meet Requiremens Day AMR Ann Vanderveer Betty Covington Bill Bygren Bill Foehlich Bill Moorhead Bill Thomas, Jr. Bob Ward Bucky Walter Bud Lang Centennial Art Show centennials Charlie Ruch Cheryl Wisniewski Chester Station Chicago Columbian Exposition Chicago World's Fair Chuck Burkhart Chuck Yaskanich Colleen Repplier Computer Center corporations Cy Banish Debbie Barnwell Dick Rahenkamp Dick Taylor Don Etchison Don Udauchak Douglas D. Danforth E. K. Johnson Ed Millison Eddystone Station electric electric elevators electrical electricity engines Garrison Alley Gary Bushey Gene Cattabiani George Dann George Westinghouse, Jr. George Westinghouse, Sr. Glenn Cox Glenn Gamble Harold Weatherman Howard Pierce Human Resources Communications industrial atom smashers inventions inventors James M. Cox James Middleton Cox Jan Scalise Janet Gaines Jeff Meeri jet aircraft engines Jim Lau Joe Fenza Joe Meyers Joe Turner John Bushey Karen Weaver Kelly Corwin Ken Johnson kitchen appliances Kurt Steinebronn, Jr. Kurt Steinebronn, Sr. logos Lou Nagoda manufacturing Martha Christopher meters Mike Cox Mike Thompson motors Nautilus Navy New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad nuclear power plants nuclear submarines nuclear subs orlando Patti Millison, Jr. Patti Millison, Sr. Paul Kamphaus Pearl Harbor Peggy Johnson Productivity and Quality Center propulsion Quality Achievement Award Quality Improvement Process radars railway signals railway switches research and development Rich Thompson Richmond Station RIGIFLEX Robert A. Heinlein Robert Anson Heinlein Rockefeller Center Roy Dunderdale Shippingport Atomic Power Station steam generators Steve Piermont Steve Richards Tammie Barrier technology Ted Moss television cameras Terry Hall The Quadrangle Thomas Alva Edison Thomas Edison Tom Kuchma trademarks Uniform Shipping System Team Warren G. Harding Warren Gamaliel Harding Westinghouse Electric Company Westinghouse Electric Corporation Westinghouse Power Systems World's Columbian Exposition World's Fair: Columbian Exposition https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/c6448c9f1b4da8589778b559d0119fe2.jpg 37eb4b523c2e3fcaa6da1ba2d336ae22 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Public Library Collection Alternative Title Orlando Library Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Libraries--Florida Chambers of commerce Fire stations--Florida Salvation Army--United States Date Created 2014-07-30 Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng lat Type Collection Contributor <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Williams, Rachel Coverage Albertson Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, Downtown Orlando, Florida Home of Maxie G. Bennett, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida Salvation Army, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Orlando Public Library. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1680244" target="_blank">The Orlando Public Library, November 1923- November 1973, Orlando, Fla</a>. [Orlando]: 1973. "<a href="http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp" target="_blank">Orlando's First Library</a>." Orange County Library System. http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando Public Library, located at 101 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The Orlando Remembered Committee of the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. was created to "showcase artistic renderings of the time depicted, with artifacts and historical memorabilia from the location in an effort to preserve the memory of Orlando's history while acknowledging the potential of the City's future." The exhibit at Regions Bank memorializes several businesses and churches located around the Albertson Public Library (now the Orlando Public Library), including the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, and the Salvation Army building. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Building Alternative Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Subject Orlando (Fla) Orlando Chamber of Commerce Chambers of commerce Description The Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, located at 113 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. Before there was a chamber of commerce in Orlando, there was the Board of Trade. It was established 1913 and aimed to promote the growing City of Orlando. In 1926, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, designed by Howard M. Reynolds (1885-1943), was constructed. The building was four stories tall, made of steel and tile, and was designed to look grand and ornate both inside and out. In 1967, the chamber traded the building with the City of Orlando in exchange for a new site on Ivanhoe Boulevard, where it is currently located today. After the chamber moved to its new location, the Junior Chamber of Commerce, or Jaycees, used the old building. The Orlando Chamber of Commerce played a part in creating an National Basketball Association (NBA) team for Orlando. The organization sold 10,000 preseason tickets before there was a team or a venue to play in. The Orlando Magic played their first game in 1989. In 2003, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce named the Orlando Chamber of Commerce a Five-Star Chamber. It was the first chamber in Orlando to receive the title. Since its start in 1913, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce has gone by many names. Today, it is known as Orlando, Inc. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph: <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph. Coverage Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1926-1967 Format image/jpg Extent 171 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Williams, Rachel Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Orlando Remembered External Reference Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html" target="_blank">The Orlando Jaycees</a>." Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce. http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html. Central Boulevard chambers of commerce Downtown Orlando orlando Orlando Chamber of Commerce https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/55f05c593d8a613dd61caa29aa1c4e1a.jpg 42c80f9dbe1b3cc147462a9d21133d03 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Public Library Collection Alternative Title Orlando Library Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Libraries--Florida Chambers of commerce Fire stations--Florida Salvation Army--United States Date Created 2014-07-30 Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng lat Type Collection Contributor <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Williams, Rachel Coverage Albertson Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, Downtown Orlando, Florida Home of Maxie G. Bennett, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida Salvation Army, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Orlando Public Library. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1680244" target="_blank">The Orlando Public Library, November 1923- November 1973, Orlando, Fla</a>. [Orlando]: 1973. "<a href="http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp" target="_blank">Orlando's First Library</a>." Orange County Library System. http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando Public Library, located at 101 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The Orlando Remembered Committee of the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. was created to "showcase artistic renderings of the time depicted, with artifacts and historical memorabilia from the location in an effort to preserve the memory of Orlando's history while acknowledging the potential of the City's future." The exhibit at Regions Bank memorializes several businesses and churches located around the Albertson Public Library (now the Orlando Public Library), including the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, and the Salvation Army building. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Building Interior Alternative Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Subject Orlando (Fla) Orlando Chamber of Commerce Chambers of commerce Description The interior of the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, located at 113 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. Before there was a chamber of commerce in Orlando, there was the Board of Trade. It was established 1913 and aimed to promote the growing City of Orlando. In 1926, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, designed by Howard M. Reynolds (1885-1943), was constructed. The building was four stories tall, made of steel and tile, and was designed to look grand and ornate both inside and out. In 1967, the chamber traded the building with the City of Orlando in exchange for a new site on Ivanhoe Boulevard, where it is currently located today. After the chamber moved to its new location, the Junior Chamber of Commerce, or Jaycees, used the old building. The Orlando Chamber of Commerce played a part in creating an National Basketball Association (NBA) team for Orlando. The organization sold 10,000 preseason tickets before there was a team or a venue to play in. The Orlando Magic played their first game in 1989. In 2003, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce named the Orlando Chamber of Commerce a Five-Star Chamber. It was the first chamber in Orlando to receive the title. Since its start in 1913, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce has gone by many names. Today, it is known as Orlando, Inc. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph: <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph. Coverage Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1926-1967 Format image/jpg Extent 157 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Williams, Rachel Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Orlando Remembered External Reference Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html" target="_blank">The Orlando Jaycees</a>." Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce. http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html. Language eng Transcript CHENEY [?] YALE ORLANDO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE Central Boulevard chambers of commerce Downtown Orlando orlando Orlando Chamber of Commerce https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b2fe547bbfd8abfe4fb760b45da5ef23.jpg 8128c941d0463cb7d6e60ca5ae112253 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Public Library Collection Alternative Title Orlando Library Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) Libraries--Florida Chambers of commerce Fire stations--Florida Salvation Army--United States Date Created 2014-07-30 Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng lat Type Collection Contributor <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Williams, Rachel Coverage Albertson Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, Downtown Orlando, Florida Home of Maxie G. Bennett, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Public Library, Downtown Orlando, Florida Salvation Army, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Orlando Public Library. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1680244" target="_blank">The Orlando Public Library, November 1923- November 1973, Orlando, Fla</a>. [Orlando]: 1973. "<a href="http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp" target="_blank">Orlando's First Library</a>." Orange County Library System. http://www.ocls.info/About/History/default.asp. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando Public Library, located at 101 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. The Orlando Remembered Committee of the Historical Society of Central Florida, Inc. was created to "showcase artistic renderings of the time depicted, with artifacts and historical memorabilia from the location in an effort to preserve the memory of Orlando's history while acknowledging the potential of the City's future." The exhibit at Regions Bank memorializes several businesses and churches located around the Albertson Public Library (now the Orlando Public Library), including the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, City of Orlando Fire Station No. 1, and the Salvation Army building. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Original Format 1 black and white photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Building Tile Alternative Title Orlando Chamber of Commerce Subject Orlando (Fla) Orlando Chamber of Commerce Chambers of commerce Description A tile from the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, located at 113 East Central Boulevard in Downtown Orlando, Florida. Before there was a chamber of commerce in Orlando, there was the Board of Trade. It was established 1913 and aimed to promote the growing City of Orlando. In 1926, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce building, designed by Howard M. Reynolds (1885-1943), was constructed. The building was four stories tall, made of steel and tile, and was designed to look grand and ornate both inside and out. In 1967, the chamber traded the building with the City of Orlando in exchange for a new site on Ivanhoe Boulevard, where it is currently located today. After the chamber moved to its new location, the Junior Chamber of Commerce, or Jaycees, used the old building. The Orlando Chamber of Commerce played a part in creating an National Basketball Association (NBA) team for Orlando. The organization sold 10,000 preseason tickets before there was a team or a venue to play in. The Orlando Magic played their first game in 1989. In 2003, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce named the Orlando Chamber of Commerce a Five-Star Chamber. It was the first chamber in Orlando to receive the title. Since its start in 1913, the Orlando Chamber of Commerce has gone by many names. Today, it is known as Orlando, Inc. Type Physical Object Source Original tile: <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Exhibit, <a href="http://www.ocls.info/locations/MainLibrary/default.asp?from=vurl_orlandopubliclibrary" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/110" target="_blank">Orlando Public Library Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image by Rachel Williams, July 11, 2014. Coverage Orlando Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1926 Format image/jpg Extent 134 KB Medium 1 tile Mediator History Teacher Economics Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by the <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Williams, Rachel Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository Orlando Remembered External Reference Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub, 2012. "<a href="http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html" target="_blank">The Orlando Jaycees</a>." Orlando Junior Chamber of Commerce. http://orlandojaycees.org/about-us/chapter-history.html. Central Boulevard chambers of commerce Downtown Orlando orlando Orlando Chamber of Commerce tiles https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/eca0fdbcd41b083394124e5a8009a9ab.JPG b4d14499123e5c8d9e50bba1430bfe58 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Chief of Police Bob Chewning's Whistle and Badge Alternative Title Chief Chewning's Whistle and Badge Subject Orlando (Fla.) Police--Florida Law enforcement--Florida Description The police badge and whistle of Robert Joseph Chewning (b. 1923), the Chief of Police for the Orlando Police Department (OPD) from 1967 to 1973. Chief Chewning was born October 22, 1923, in Baltimore, Maryland. After serving in the Eighth Air Force (8 AF) of the U.S. Army Air Force during World War II, he migrated to Central Florida and began his law enforcement career with OPD in 1946. While Chief Chewning was in office he made great strides in modernizing the agency. This included issuing portable radios for patrol officers and several other progressive programs that were instituted department wide. One of his successful plans was to give financial aid to officers under his charge to pursue higher education and obtain their college degrees. Chief Chewning later served as the Director of Public Safety for Orange County. Type Physical Object Source Original whistle and badge: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image, 2016. Coverage Orlando Police Department, Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributor Chewning, Grace Date Created ca. 1946-1973 Format image/jpg Extent 457 KB Medium 1 whistle 1 badge Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Wray, Brandon Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="https://youtu.be/jfvWAz_qMcI" target="_blank">Proper Use of the Police Baton or Nightstick. YouTube. Flash video file. . https://youtu.be/jfvWAz_qMcI (accessed January 30, 2016). </a><a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/29779143" target="_blank">Orlando Police Historical Report</a>. Orlando, Fl: Orlando Police Dept, 1990. "<a href="http://orlandopoliceretirees.com/Robert%2520Chewning%2520Tribute.pdf" target="_blank">A Tribute To Robert Joseph Chewning. Lake Mary, Fl: 2006. Accessed January 30, 2016, http://orlandopoliceretirees.com/Robert%2520Chewning%2520Tribute.pdf.</a> American Thunderer badges Bob Chewning chiefs of polices cops Director of Public Safety Grace Chewning law enforcement OPD orlando Orlando Police Department police Robert Joseph Chewning whistles https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b65eed983986b0c2091df41e7a817fed.JPG 637611f41d63df812380743ff53d32d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Council Chambers Key Alternative Title City Council Chambers Key Subject Orlando (Fla) City councils--United States Description The keys to the Orlando City Council chambers. The key was the only key that would unlock the door to the Council chambers. The key opened a pin tumbler lock, which had five pins that responded when depressed by the key. This type of key format was patented in 1851. Attached to the chain is a disc that was more than likely designed to prevent theft, as well as to prevent the key from getting lost as it was the only key that could open the council chambers. It is likely that this key was the original used in the city hall built in 1958, which remained in use until 1991. Type Physical Object Source Original key: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image, 2016. Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1958 Format image/jpg Extent 245 KB Medium 1 key Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Wallace, Evan Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference "<a href="http://www.yalelock.com/en/yale/com/About-Yale/History-of-Yale/Brand-1/" target="_blank">The Yale Pin-tumbler Invention</a>." The Yalelock.com. Accessed February 2, 2016. http://www.yalelock.com/en/yale/com/About-Yale/History-of-Yale/Brand-1/. city council chambers city councils keys orlando Orlando City Council https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/e63738f8abb158a10f73b34ddc3de085.JPG 504361da9feb9903839b46e671160ca9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Alternative Title Orlando City Hall Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Police--Florida Law enforcement--Florida Description The Orlando City Hall in Downtown Orlando, Florida, in the 1960s or 1970s. During that same decade, Orlando experienced a population boom. Due to this increase in population, the city needed to expand its public buildings to accommodate the changes that were happening in the city. Prior to the construction of the fourth city hall, pictured here, the municipal government officers were housed on the top floor of the Armory Building on Jefferson Street and Orange Avenue. The Orlando Public School was built in 1906 on Jackson Street and Orange Avenue. It served its purpose as a school until the year 1922. In 1924, the City of Orlando bought the school for $115,000 and moved city hall into the empty building. Along with city hall being located here, the Orlando Police Department (OPD) and the city jail were located in the basement. Type Still Image Source Original black and white photograph: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph. Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca.1960-1979 Format image/jpg Extent 280 KB Medium 1 black and white photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Pacheco, Alexander Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Dickinson, Joy Wallace. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53872607" target="_blank">Orlando: City of Dreams</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2003. "<a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CityHallBrochurePrint.pdf" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>." City of Orlando, accessed February 2, 2016, http://www.cityoforlando.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CityHallBrochurePrint.pdf. Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia, 2012. city halls law enforcement orlando Orlando City Hall Orlando Public School police departments police stations schools https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/7b28f80ebc98fcd4b410fba075faac3c.JPG 3f58d10a7eca6d55cacce90f1c59224a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Architectural Drawings Description The contract drawings for the heating and air conditioning systems that were to be installed in Orlando City Hall in Downtown Orlando, Florida. Drawings contain the name of the commissioners of the city of Orlando. The old Orlando City Hall building was completed in 1958, stood at eight stories tall, and cost $1,600,000 to construct. The city hall was imploded on October 25, 1991, for the opening scene of the film Lethal Weapon 3. The new city hall building was completed in 1992, stands at nine stories tall, and cost $32,000,000 to construct. Date Created ca. 1958 Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Source Original black and white photograph: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. External Reference "<a href="http://www.emporis.com/buildings/263215/orlando-city-hall-orlando-fl-usa" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall." Emphoris. Accessed April 7, 2016. http://www.emporis.com/buildings/263215/orlando-city-hall-orlando-fl-usa. </a> Alternative Title City Hall Architectural Drawings Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original black and white photograph. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Format image/jpg Extent 3.1 MB Medium 1 blueprint Language eng Type Still Image Accrual Method Donation Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Contributing Project <a href="http://orlandoremembered.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered</a> Curator Smith, Zane Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> A/C air conditioning architectural drawings city halls City of Orlando Claude R. Edwards construction George A. Barker, Jr. heating orlando Orlando City Hall Robert Spencer Carr W. M. Sanderlin Wilbur H. Strickland https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/71d7a2f92a0188fbbfed8ff8601061cd.jpg c500a42ad74730593ccc85db1a5881b3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Commemorative Brick Alternative Title City Hall Commemorative Brick Subject Orlando (Fla.) Schools City halls--United States Police--Florida Law enforcement--Florida Description The cornerstone commemorative brick of the Orlando City Hall in Downtown Orlando, Florida. From 1906 to 1924, this brick was part of Orlando Public School, located at 1 West Jackson Street. In 1922, the school was moved to a new building and Orlando City Hall and the Orlando Police Department (OPD) was moved to the old school building in 1924. In 1958, it became headquarters for the OPD and city hall was moved to a new building at 400 South Orange Avenue. On February 28, 1972, when Carl T. Langford (1918-2011) was the mayor, the cornerstone was removed for commemoration. Type Physical Object Source Original commemorative brick: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image, 2016. Coverage Orlando Public School, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Police Department, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created ca. 1906-04-12 Format image/jpg Extent 274 KB Medium 1 commemorative brick Language eng Mediator History Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Grande, John Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Schlueb, Mark. "<a href="http://dc.ocls.info/memory/person/carl-langford" target="_blank">Carl Langford."</a> Orlando Memory, July 14, 2011. http://dc.ocls.info/memory/person/carl-langford. Carl T. Langford city halls commemorative bricks cornerstones mayors OPD orlando Orlando City Hall Orlando Police Department Orlando Public School https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/b4df4ea2b86e6ae96888680b19b31860.JPG b1d5234e407e4950a26f82d435fe95a0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Exhibit Painting Alternative Title City Hall Exhibit Painting Subject Orlando (Fla) City halls--United States Description This painting highlights notable businesses and the Orlando City Hall located in Downtown Orlando, Florida in 1951. Featured in the piece is South Street and the South West Corner of Boone Street. At the center of the piece is the Orlando City Hall which was constructed in 1906 originally to serve as the Orlando Public School. On the right is the headquarters of the American Fire and Casualty Company, which is the only distinguishable business in the piece. In 1951, visitors would have seen many flourishing businesses such as Howard's Grocery Company, Borden Dairy, Orlando Linen Service, as well as the Dixie Sales and Service Garage. The piece was painted by artist Jim Stoll in conjunction with Orlando Remembered. Type Still Image Source Original oil painting by Jim Stoll: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image, 2016. Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Howard Grocery Company, Downtown Orlando, Florida Orlando Linen Service, Downtown Orlando, Florida Borden's Dairy, Downtown Orlando, Florida Dixie Sales & Service, Downtown Orlando, Florida Joe Croy's Filling Station, Downtown Orlando, Florida McElroy Apartments, Downtown Orlando, Florida Enzor's Pharmacy, Downtown Orlando, Florida American First & Casualty Company, Downtown Orlando, Florida Creator Stoll, Jim Contributor Powers, Ormund Date Created ca. 2014 Format image/jpg Extent 367 KB Medium 1 oil painting Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jim Stoll. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Wallace, Evan Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Dickinson, Joy Wallace. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53872607" target="_blank">Orlando: City of Dreams</a>. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Pub., 2003. American First & Casualty Company B. & J. Service Station Billy Beardall Blair Howard Bob Carr Boone Street Borden's Dairy Burwell Howard city halls Court Street Dixie Kuhr Dixie Sales & Service Doc Estees Don Mott Downtown Orlando Enzor's Pharmacy Eugene Goodman Duckworth Fidelity Storage and Warehouse Company George Wolfe Harold Wilson Howard Grocery Company J. Rolfe Davis Jack Cranis Jack Delbert Agnew Jackson Street James LeRoy Giles Jim Stoll Joe Croy Julian Howard Latta M. Autrey Little Red Schoolhouse mayors McElroy Apartments OPD Orange Avenue orlando Orlando City Hall Orlando City Jail Orlando Linen Service Orlando Police Department Ormund Powers Robert Spencer Carr Samuel Yulee Way South Street Theodore Carter V. W. Estees Verner Wilson Estes W. W. Yothers Walter L. Hays William Beardall https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/435625bf5c0efe5ed39d2af0fcfdc4e7.JPG 23a480233c505304e612feec4e08daf3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Painting Alternative Title Orlando City Hall Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Orlando City Hall in Downtown Orlando, Florida, as it appeared from 1958 to 1991. The building was located on the corner of South Street and Orange Avenue and acted as the place of governance for the growing Orlando area. The painting was created by James Stoll and is paired with the Orlando Remembered Exhibit located in the Orlando City Hall Building, located at 400 South Orange Avenue. The 1958 city hall was designed by Richard Boone Rogers and constructed by the C. A. Finland Company of Tampa. Dedicated on October 3, 1958, the building was faced with Tennessee marble, Minnesota granite and terrazzo stones. The Orlando Utilities Commission was located within the building from 1958 to 1967, when it moved into a $3.5 million building at 500 South Orange Ave. The Orlando Police Department (OPD) remained in the previous city hall building, which was the original Orlando Public School, across the street. In January of 1972, OPD and the city jail relocated to the Municipal Justice Building at 100 South Hughey Avenue. Type Still Image Source Original oil painting by Jim Stoll: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityofOrlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityofOrlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Original color digital image, 2016. Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Creator Stoll, Jim Date Created ca. 1958-1991 Format image/jpg Extent 252 KB Medium 1 oil painting Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Economics Teacher Geography Teacher Provenance Originally created by Jim Stoll. Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Smith, Robert T. Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Simons, George W., Jr. "<a href="http://digitalcommons.unf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1029&context=simonsflorida" target="_blank">Comprehensive City Plan Orlando, Florida, Vol III</a>." Digital Commons, University of North Florida. http://digitalcommons.unf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1029&context=simonsflorida. Stoll, James, "<a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/4592" target="_blank">Signature Plaza Painting</a>.” RICHES of Central Florida, accessed May 9, 2016, https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/items/show/4592. Bill Frederick Bob Carr C. A. Finland Company Carl T. Langford Church Street Market city halls Downtown Orlando First National Bank Glenn L. Martin Company Hughey Avenue James Stoll Lake Eola Park Lethal Weapon 3 Lincoln Property mayors Municipal Justice Building OPD Orange Avenue orlando Orlando Arena Orlando City Hall Orlando City Jail Orlando Loch Haven Park Orlando Police Department Orlando Utilities Commission OUC Richard Boone Rogers Robert Spencer Carr South Avenue Southern Bell Telephone and Telegraph Company Southern Gateway SunBank Willard Drawn Frederick https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/d987870bb50e1e282f0b709c8978e74f.JPG 30ce9d3406659331d0f903bf80fef9a4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall Collection Alternative Title City Hall Collection Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description Historic artifacts from an exhibit created by Orlando Remembered at the Orlando City Hall, located at 400 South Orange Avenue in Downtown Orlando, Florida. This exhibit houses objects relating to Orlando's municipal government. The current building opened in July of 1991. The former city hall was located directly in front of current building and was in operation from 1958 to 1991. The exhibit features photographs and memorabilia from past Orlando mayors dating back to 1932. Orlando Remembered is a community based group, dedicated to the preservation of Downtown Orlando's past. To date, the group has constructed 18 exhibits in the downtown area that highlight the current building's connection to the past. Contributor Orlando Remembered Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/106" target="_blank">Orlando Remembered Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection. RICHES of Central Florida. Language eng Type Collection Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Cepero, Laura Barnes, Mark Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository "<a href="http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/" target="_blank">The Historic Icons of Orlando</a>." Orlando Remembered. http://www.historiciconsoforlando.com/. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. Chuluota, Fla: Mickler House, 1975. Rajtar, Steve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/70911136" target="_blank">A Guide to Historic Orlando</a>. Charleston, SC: History Press, 2006. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando City Hall, 1958 Alternative Title Orlando City Hall Subject Orlando (Fla.) City halls--United States Description The newly constructed Orlando City Hall in Downtown Orlando, Florida, as it looked in 1958 upon its completion. Located on the southwest corner of South Orange Avenue and South Street, construction of the new city hall began in 1956 with the building fully operational two years later. Under the administration of Mayor William Beardall (1890-1984), plans for the construction of a newer and larger city hall had been in the works since as early as 1950, with the city received an advanced grant of $28,500 for what would eventually become a $1,052,500 facility. Totaling a span of 85,000 square feet, the building was eight stories high with the infrastructure required for the possibility of an additional six floors. Designed by architect Richard Boone Rogers, it would go on to replace the old Orlando Public School Building on South Orange Avenue as the main residence for the city government. The Orlando Public School Building had served as Orlando’s City Hall since 1924. On October 24, 1991, the building would be imploded to make way for the current city hall. The moment of implosion was captured on film and the footage of the blast famously used in the 1992 film Lethal Weapon 3. Type Still Image Source Original 9 x 11 inch black and white photographic print, 1958: Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of Orlando Remembered Exhibit, <a href="http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-hall-hours-directions/" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall</a>, Orlando, Florida. <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka2/collections/show/173" target="_blank">Orlando City Hall Collection</a>, Orlando Remembered Collection, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES of Central Florida. Is Format Of Digital reproduction of original 9 x 11 inch black and white photographic print, 1958. Coverage Orlando City Hall, Downtown Orlando, Florida Date Created 1958 Format image/jpg Extent 292 KB Medium 9 x 11 inch black and white photograph Language eng Mediator History Teacher Civics/Government Teacher Geography Teacher Rights Holder Copyright to this resource is held by <a href="https://www.thehistorycenter.org/" target="_blank">Orange County Regional History Center</a> and is provided here by <a href="http://riches.cah.ucf.edu/" target="_blank">RICHES of Central Florida</a> for educational purposes only. Accrual Method Donation Contributing Project Orlando Remembered Curator Alexander, Mercy Cepero, Laura Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> External Reference Antequino, Stephanie Gaub, and Tana Mosier Porter. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/783150094" target="_blank">Lost Orlando</a>. (Charleston, SC: Arcadia Publishing, 2012), 118. Bacon, Eve. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2020029" target="_blank">Orlando: A Centennial History</a>. (Chuluota, FL: Mickler House, 1975), 165. Owens, Sherri M. "<a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-02-16/news/9802160102_1_rogers-orlando-university-of-florida" target="_blank">Rogers' Structures Seen All Over Orange</a>." The Orlando Sentinel, February 16, 1998. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-02-16/news/9802160102_1_rogers-orlando-university-of-florida. city halls orlando Orlando City Hall https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/files/original/0fda8d97a802cd244df46e4d8612ba46.jpg c6b9103078d1d400717012a4807061fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Collection Alternative Title Gay Chorus Collection Is Part Of Orlando Gay Chorus Collection, RICHES Program Type Collection Digital Collection <div class="element-text"><a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/">RICHES MI</a></div> <div class="element-text"> </div> Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Gay culture--United States Description The Orlando Gay Chorus (OGC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization, and part of the Gay and Lesbian Association (GALA) of Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a host of community events, such as Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World AIDS Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples of still images are: paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type "text" to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title Orlando Gay Chorus Alternative Title Orlando Gay Chorus Subject Orlando (Fla.) Music--Florida Dance--United States Description A poster for the Orlando Gay Chorus. The poster is not for an event. It has a background of large black, red and gold bars with a white eighth note taking up most of the page. The OGC header is centered at the bottom of the page. The Orlando Gay Chorus is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit arts and humanitarian organization part of GALA Choruses. Founded on Valentines Day 1990, OGC is not only one of the largest mixed gay choirs in the United States at over 100 members, but they also boast four smaller ensembles that perform annual concerts, cabarets, and a whole host of community events like Come Out With Pride, Orlando Museum of Art’s Festival of Trees, and World Aids Day memorial services. In 2017, the group performed at over 105 events, including 15 performances for the first anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub tragedy. Members come from all walks of life and all sexual and gender orientations, including straight allies. OGC lives by the motto “Singing the World to a Better Place” and strives to use music to change attitudes and build a stronger community. Type Still Image Source Original color poster: University of Central Florida Special Collections, Orlando, Florida. Is Part Of <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/omeka/collections/show/206" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus Collection</a>, Orlando Collection, Orange County Collection, RICHES. Creator <a href="https://www.orlandogaychorus.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus</a> Publisher <a href="https://www.orlandogaychorus.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus</a> Format image/jpg Extent 17.1 MB Medium 1 poster Language eng Mediator History Teacher Dance Teacher Music Teacher Art Teacher Provenance Originally created and published by the <a href="https://www.orlandogaychorus.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus</a>. Rights Holder <a href="https://www.orlandogaychorus.org/" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus</a> Accrual Method Donation Curator O'Neill, Carys Digital Collection <a href="https://richesmi.cah.ucf.edu/map/" target="_blank">RICHES MI</a> Source Repository University of Central Florida Special Collections External Reference Unknown. "About OGC: History." Orlando Gay Chorus. 2018. Accessed April 10, 2018. https://orlandogaychorus.org/history/. Ahlquist, Karen. <a href="http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/62281651" target="_blank">Chorus and Community</a>. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2006. Boedeker, Hal. "<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html" target="_blank">Orlando Gay Chorus marks 25 years</a>." Orlando Sentinel, October 18, 2016. Accessed October 18, 2018. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-orlando-gay-chorus-25-years-20150611-story.html. Dr. Charles Callahan GLBT GLBTQ+ homosexuality Kenion A. Thompson LGBT LGBTQ+ orlando Orlando Gay Chorus