Oral Memoirs of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr.

Oral Memoirs of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr.

Oral History, Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr.

Orlando (Fla.)

Parramore (Orlando, Fla.)

African Americans--Florida--Orlando

Teachers--Florida

Educators--Florida

Segregation--Florida

An oral history interview of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. The interview was conducted by Eric Thompson at the Melrose Center at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida, on March 5, 2025. Rayam, born February 4, 1951, is a native of the Parramore neighborhood in Orlando and a successful opera and concert singer. Some of the topics covered include his family's move to Orlando in search of better educational opportunities, his experiences growing up in Parramore, and the influence of teachers and mentors such as Masie Cosby and Jessie B. Demps Smith. Rayam shares memories of attending Callahan Elementary School and Jones High School and reflects on the role that educators played in shaping his musical ambitions. He describes community life centered around churches such as Mt. Olive AME Church and Saint Mark AME Church and remembers the vibrant cultural and commercial activity in Parramore. He mentions streets such as Green Street, Jackson Street, Jefferson Street, and Orange Avenue, as well as businesses like Pyramid Cleaners and the Carver and Lincoln Theaters. He reflects on community figures including Chief Wilson, who attended the 1964 New York World’s Fair, as well as other key figures like Queenie Powell, Augusta Rogers, Alma Polope, and Georgia Wallace. He also discusses the work of Jessie B. Demps Smith at the Magnolia School. Rayam recalls his later studies at the University of Miami, the legacy of segregation, the importance of entrepreneurship, and the changes he has witnessed in Parramore over the decades, including poverty and homelessness.

Oral history interview of Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. Interview conducted by Eric Thompson on March 5, 2025.

00:00 Moving from Bellville to Orlando and settling in Parramore
02:51 Childhood memories and family life in rural Florida
05:12 Discovering his voice and early musical education
08:00 Attending Jones High School and some of his influential teachers and singers
12:13 Attending the University of Miami and beginning his opera career
14:58 Family talents and activities outside of music
16:16 Memories of old Parramore and its community businesses
19:29 Reflections on economic decline and loss of Black-owned businesses
21:43 Defining the geographic borders of Parramore
24:44 Challenges in Parramore today, including poverty and homelessness, and local support
26:40 The role of churches in supporting the community, and his family’s involvement in the church choir
28:12 The strength and leadership of women in Parramore
28:51 Remembering educators and community leaders who shaped his life, working with special needs children, and the definition of “community”
31:31 How the sense of community in Parramore has changed, the legacy of Parramore and how to rebuild the community
35:25 Remembering Chief Wilson and his lasting influence

Thompson, Eric

Rayam Jr., Curtis Joshua

Raya, Jr., Curtis. Interviewed by Eric Thompson, March 25, 2025. Audio record available. RICHES, Orlando, Florida.

2025-03-05

2025-03-05

Parramore Speaks Collection, Parramore Collection, Orlando Collection. Orange County Collection, RICHES.

Multimedia software, such as QuickTime.; Adobe Acrobat Reader</a

video/mp4

application/pdf

1.7 GB

253 KB

38-minutes and 21-seconds video recording

16-page digital transcript

eng

Moving Image

Orlando, Florida

Jones High School, Orlando, Florida

University of Miami, Miami, Florida

Item Creation

History Teacher

Music Teacher

Originally created by Curtis Joshua Rayam Jr. and Eric Thompson and published by RICHES.

Boye, Sarah

Argrett, LeRoy. A History of the Black Community of Orlando, Florida. Fort Bragg, CA: Cypress House Press. 1991. Accessed July 9, 2025.

Porter, Tana Mosier. “Segregation and Desegregation in Parramore: Orlando’s African American Community.”. The Florida Historical Quarterly 82 (3): 289–312. Accessed July 10, 2025.

Thompson, Geraldine Fortenberry. Orlando Florida.. Charleston, SC: Arcadia. 2003. Accessed July 10, 2025.

Brotemarkle, Benjamin D. Crossing Division Street : An Oral History of the African-American Community in Orlando.. Cocoa, FL: Florida Historical Society Press. 2006. Accessed July 10, 2025.

Thompson
All right. Today's date is Wednesday, March 5th, 2025. My name is Eric Thompson, and I'm interviewing Curtis Rayam as part of research with the University of Central Florida RICHES Project, in cooperation with the City of Orlando's Parramore Speaks Project. This interview is being conducted at the Melrose Center at the Orlando Public Library in Orlando, Florida, and Mister Rayam has agreed to allow this interview to be recorded. First, could you start off by telling us your full name?

Rayam
Curtis Joshua Rayam, Jr.

Thompson
All right. And can you tell us about your childhood and where you grew up?

Rayam
Well, I was born in 1951—February 4th, 1951—in a farming area called Bellville, Florida, in Hamilton County, Florida, up near the Georgia line.

Thompson
And when did you and your family first arrive in Orlando?

Rayam
We came to Orlando in 1958 to stay. That is to say that we had been to Orlando on several occasions. My parents were divided about either being city dwellers or farming people. So, uh, my mother won out in 1958 because she was, um, very, very interested in her children getting a better education than she did. So, we moved to Orlando finally in 1958.

Thompson
And why did they come here? Just for education?

Rayam
Education, uh, employment, of course. I mean, we had our farming, but uh, they were looking for a new experience. They both had been farmers all of their lives. And especially my mother. My mother had wanted to be a WAC, and, uh, because her father was burned badly in a tobacco barn for, uh burning. And, uh, she and her two older siblings had to stay home and help their mother gather the crops. So, her out was to get married, she told me. And then from marriage, uh, it brought her along to Orlando, Florida.

Thompson
And when you came to Orlando, where in Orlando did you live?

Rayam
I first remember living as a little boy on Green Street, which really doesn't, uh—I don't think it's in existence anymore. It's near the Callahan Center. And then from Green Street, we lived at the corner of Washington, right behind which was—which was, um, Callahan, which had been on the old Jones High School.

Thompson
And you mentioned a little bit the farming history. Once they came to Orlando, what did your parents do for a living?

Rayam
Well, my mother became a maid. She worked in the old San Juan Hotel down here on Orange Avenue. And my father picked oranges, and later became an—a fruit loader. And then went on to move houses with Sandroni Company and all.

Thompson
And, uh, do you have any siblings?

Rayam
I have. I certainly do. One sister who has passed. My sister, Linda. And, uh, four brothers. My brother Hardy, my brother Linarus Rayam, who has passed, and my brother Alfred Earl, who has passed, and my brother Thomas, who is still alive. And we do have a brother also we call Tootie, but his name is Alphonso. My father's son. He’s actually the oldest [laughs].

Thompson
Um, and what sort of, um, memories do you have of your family and childhood that really stick out to you?

Rayam
Oh my God. Going fishing when we lived on the farm. Going fishing with my grandmother. Playing with my cousins. There were so many cousins. We did not have to make friends with anybody else. Just, uh—just that country life going from one church to another, going down to my mother's—mother's house in the evenings on Sunday—Sundays. And, uh, all the ladies in the evening would, uh, walk down in the—in the fields and, uh, children couldn't follow them. So, as they came back singing we would go to our respective parents and bring them back. I never knew what that was about, but it reminds me of something of—of an African tradition, where the women got together and probably talked about each other's families, husbands and children and got, uh, advice from their mother. But, uh, it was Sunday evenings and, uh, Easter programs and sing your Easter speech and—and uh, all of those good things.

Thompson
And you mentioned singing. So, let's talk about that. Your career is very unique. Um, can you tell us what you do for a career?

Rayam
I was an opera singer. Concert singer. I, uh, started in the church, of course. Uh, my—I have to go way back to the country again. My whole family sings. My father used to sing with his brothers and cousins. They were called the Bellville Jubileers. And my mother sang with her sisters, and they were called the Amazons. They were tall, pretty women who had beautiful voices. So, all of my siblings sing. I'm the only one that decided to make a living out of it. Uh, so it's—it's part of our DNA. So, when I go home for family reunion—union now everybody's singing. So it's nothing unique [laughs].

Thompson
Um, and you mentioned a little bit, um, but what type of education did you have?

Rayam
I, uh—of course, I had my elementary school education at Callahan. And it's at Callahan that, uh, Mrs. Masie Cosby discovered my voice. We used to have what was called chapel. A devotion. And, according to her [clears throat]—excuse me. According to her, she heard this voice. So, she did a series of elimination until she got to me, and she said, “well, here you are!” She told me what I had. You know, it was, you know, nothing to me because we did it at home. She said, “I always wanted to sing.” She said, “But you could sing. You could go around the world and sing for me.” Okay. All right. Go around the world. I love National Geographic magazine. So, I had seen other places in this magazine. And so, my mind—my imagination took over and, uh, one thing led to another. Going to Mt. Olive AME Church. Then to, uh, Jones High, uh, School. Being discovered by—from—from one, uh, director to another director. And onto the University of Miami on scholarship.

Thompson
Um, and what was your favorite subject in school? Was it music?
Rayam Music, uh, drama, French, uh, history. Uh, least favorite [laughs]: mathematics. Ran away from physics and calculus. Still get the shivers when I think about it [laughs].

Thompson
Uh, and you mentioned Jones High School. Can you tell us about the school, what it was like when you were there?

Rayam
Well, Jones High was, my lord. It was junior high and senior high. I had never seen so many people in my life than when I was in seventh grade.

Thompson
[sniffs].

Rayam
I'm told by—by uh, church members who were teachers or retired—retired folk who said, “Oh. When you get to Jones High, make sure you take Latin.” So, when I got there, there’s Mrs. Brayboy who was the Latin teacher. Retired. So, there was no Latin. I met Miss Queen E. Oh, what was Miss Queen E.‘s last name? Uh, she was the French teacher. She heard me talking. And she said, "Hello, little boy. Come here." She said, "So, what's your name?" I said, “I'm Curtis Rayam.” She said, "Now, in ninth grade, I want you to sign up for French." Powell was her last name, Miss Queen E. Powell. I said, "Okay." So, when I got to ninth grade, she had retired. But I followed her instructions, and I signed up for—for French. And it's been a love affair ever since. So, I took French in high school, French in college, of course, and studied in France. Later on, after college.

Thompson
You mentioned a few of your teachers, the French teacher and some of your music teachers. But are there any teachers that stand out in particular as influential or memorable?

Rayam
Well, my lord, they were all advice givers [laughs]. They were all transplanted mothers and fathers. Uh, Mrs.—Mrs. Cosby, I spoke to you about. Mrs. Polope[sp] who taught me the Lord's Prayer. Uh, Miss Alma Polope[sp]. That was back in Callahan. But at Jones High, it was Miss Augusta Rogers, who encouraged me to make sure I go and sing for the choir directors. Mr., uh, Roderick Rockheel[sp] Williams. Uh, then, uh, Miss uh—Miss, uh, Roberta Manuel, Mr. Norman Choice. And then came Mrs. Edna Hargrett Thrower, the one that took me over and got me ready for university and, uh, the world. She had—and that was the time that I was coming—coming down to the library—to Orlando library when it was first built. And, uh, she introduced us to our opera, to oratorio, to Broadway musicals, um, gospel, of course. The secret—uh, the sacred music of—of the church and spirituals. So, she prepared me for the University of Miami. But Mrs. Hargrett, uh—w—w—we'll call her Mama Hargrett—was the one that really put the fire up under me.

Thompson
And what did you want to be when you grew up? Was it always singing?

Rayam
I always wanted to be a singer. First, I thought to be, uh, a ballad singer. And then I found o—found out about, uh, [smacks] uh, the Broadway musical. Then I saw my first opera here in Orlando, which was, uh, Puccini's Tosca, with Gabriella Tucci and Placido Domingo. And I—I thought it was nice, you know, ok, “lalalala.” But the next year we came to see—uh, Charles Gounod's, uh, Faust. That did the clincher. A young Beverly Sills, Placido Domingo, Dominic Cossa, uh, Kay Creed, and, uh, th—the Or—the Or—it was the Orlan—the Florida Symphony Orchestra with Henry Mazer. Henry Mazer. And then Herman Hertz was the conductor after him. Well, that did the clincher. When I saw, uh, Beverly Sills rise into the heavens, I said, “I want to make that magic. That's the magic I want to make.” So, I fell in love with opera on that—on the spot.

Thompson
And I doubt most folks are familiar with the career pathway of an opera singer.

Rayam
[laughs]

Thompson
Can you tell us a little bit about what that journey was like?

Rayam
Oo, it can be helter skelter. Not necessarily, uh, designed. Although some people are, uh—have a designed, uh, money trail. Marketing scheme. Mine was by the good Lord and good people who heard me and, uh, propelled me from one thing to another. The—the—the basic thing was to be prepared to learn, uh, all the different genres, uh to f—to familiarize yourself with French opera, German opera, Italian opera, American opera, and—and—and—and on and on and on, uh, to have a chance. Also, before you were discovered to say—to, uh, have those chances to get up on your feet and practice, uh, the, uh—the art of the opera. Singing opera. So, in University of Miami, we had the opera workshop.

And Miami was a very good market. I didn't realize, but, uh, I knew it was bigger than several other places that I considered. But M—Miami, uh, of course, had the—the Miami Opera. Uh, you had several symphony orchestras around, and, of course, the opera workshop at the University of Miami and my teacher, Mary Henderson Buckley, and my other teacher, Dorothy Zeigler. And, uh, Emerson Buckley. And all of these people gave us chances to sing in the chorus, to be around the international stars. Placido Domingo again, uh, Montserrat Caballé Leontyne Price, uh, Fiorenza Cossotto and—and uh—and on and on and on and on and on. And so, you got a chance to hobnob it. To see these people really practice their art, and to— to talk to them and get advice from them. And to get to know them. And get their address or phone number. So, if you—if you went to New York, you could call them and say, “I'm gonna bug you to death!” But, uh, yeah. Being—being prepared. Hopefully when you're in that right place to—to step out and do that thing that you would like to do. And it has been—it has been a—[smacks] I must say, a blessed, blessed journey for me.

Thompson
Uh, and you mentioned, um, growing up that there was a lot of singing in the house and fishing. What other sorts of things did you do in your spare time?

Rayam
Well, there—the other side of that is athletics. My father was—my lord. Sunday afternoons was baseball. My father could play baseball like crazy. And my mother was a fabulous basketball player they say. I never saw her play basketball. But, my brothers and my sister, they not only played in the band and sang in choir, but uh, my brother, Hardy , played football and went to Notre Dame on a scholarship back in, uh, '72, I do believe. And my brother, Thomas , went to the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. And went on to the pros with the Redskins and then the, uh, uh, Bengals and then Canadian ball. He, uh—th—the others, although they sang, became accountants [laughs] and mass communication majors. And book writers and poem writers. And all of that. Po—poets and all.

Thompson
We'll change, uh— we'll change gears a little bit. And looking at, um, the community once you're here in Orlando.

Rayam
Yeah.

Thompson
What sorts of businesses existed in the neighborhood when you were younger?
Rayam Lord, uh, Mrs. Georgia Wallace had a fabulous boarding house, and she was quite a socialite. I remember she i—invited our family to go to the new Jones High to hear the Dondrells[sp] of Chicago. And I think for the first time, I recognized classical music. There was a pianist. There was a cellist. There was a singer, of course, singing [laughs] what my father desires as, “tweet, tweet, bird music”[sings in French] [laughs]. And they laughed and picked at that for— for some time. But I knew it was different from, uh, that music that I heard back in the country. Uh, the gospel, and the spirituals and the hymns. And even the music, I—I, uh—I heard also in Orlando. So that was in the back burner. I didn't act upon it. But, uh, Mrs. Wallace was very, very, very innovative in introducing my family to another side of the coin.

Thompson
Thinking outside of your family, what type of work did the people who lived in the community do?

Rayam
Yeah. Well, you had your teachers. You had your preachers. Uh, you had your first Black policeman, uh, Policeman Jones. Yes. Uh, you had, uh— you had nurses. Mercerdese Clark. Uh, you had—you had your cooks. You know? Cooks. You had your janitorial types. You had your, uh, doctors. Dr. Schanck. Dr. Smith, who was my doctor. You had Lawyer Perkins who was—

Thompson
[sniffs]

Rayam
...who was our lawyer. And his wife was my—my third-grade teacher at, uh, Callahan. You had almost every kind of, uh, em—employment in— in the neighborhood. Uh, secretaries. Pamela Woodley’s mother uh, Mrs. Woodley, who was uh, quite the secretary and quite the [inaudible]. You had your seamstress, Louise McDonald, my cousin. Uh, you had your cooks, like I said. You had some of— store owners. Yes. You had the—the neighborhood stores. Uh, cousin. And, uh—yeah. Hardy Wright. Oh, yeah. And you had your orange pickers. And you had your day laborers. And, uh, the whole—the music. Th—the mix of all.

Thompson
Um, when you look at the community now...

Rayam
Hm.

Thompson
How has business and entrepreneurship changed over time in Parramore?

Rayam
Well, I—I—I've seen a lot of places that have closed down. Like, for instance, at the corner of Jackson. At the Jackson Street and Parramore you had the Pyramid Cleaners owned by the Motsbys. And, uh, that's not there anymore. Uh, you have the funeral homes. Well, we still have those [laughs]. Fortunately or unfortunately, they s—they still exist but have changed hands. Uh, you have gas stations. Uh, you have your taxi services. Uh, not—about—of the same magnitude as it was when I was a child. There used to be the Carver Theater. Uh, and the Lincoln Theater. Uh, that does not exist anymore. You have a soccer field there now. And, uh, barber shops. And all kind of, uh, uh, clothing places. They don't exist anymore.

Thompson
What does the absence of those businesses do to the community?

Rayam
Well, for one thing, it takes out an identity, especially to the, uh—for the young people that are coming behind us. And, uh, we tell them about ‘em. You know? There are pictures here and there about that. I think that's what the Callahan Center is all about to, uh—to preserve some of that, uh—that legacy so that our—generations that are coming behind us will know that—that they had people who were, uh, entrepreneurs of—of good—good standings. And you—you have the ones that were not so great, either. B—but, you know, it takes everything and everybody to make up a community.

Thompson
Before we got started, I told you that I was going to give you an activity.

Rayam
Yes?

Thompson
It's time for that.

Rayam
Oh [laughs]!

Thompson
So, this is a [paper rustling] map of downtown Orlando.

Rayam
Okay.

Thompson
And I want you to [paper rustling] draw on the map using any of the [paper rustling] markers of your choice.

Rayam
Okay.

Thompson
Define on the map: Parramore. What is Parramore as an area?

Rayam
[inaudible whispering] That's Jackson Street. Where's the red? That's Jackson. Roberts and [inaudible whispering]. That's downtown. That's Madison [inaudible] [pen clicks] [paper rustling] [pen clicks]. I don't have on my better—best glasses today. Uh, South Street [inaudible]. And that's Lake—Lake Lorna Doone. Amelia. Livingston. Yes. Orange Blossom Trail. Livingston.

Thompson
[sniffs]

Rayam
You know, I see nothing [paper rustling] saying Parramore.

Thompson
Right, I've removed the P—I've removed the place names, so if you just—

Rayam
Oh, I see.

Thompson
If you just...

Rayam
[paper rustling]

Thompson
...draw a box...

Rayam
Uh huh.

Thompson
or lines around whatever...

Rayam
[pen clicks]

Thompson
...you consider to be Parramore.

Rayam
I gotcha. Uh.

Thompson
And it should still have street names to...

Rayam
Yeah.

Thompson
...help keep you oriented.

Rayam
I see. You know, in those days, you could only go as far [paper rustling] as your mother and father [paper rustling] would let you go. Okay. There we are [paper rustling]. I used to walk [paper rustling] Miss Penny over to—almost to [paper rustling] Division Street. There was a lady who sold the Pittsburgh [paper rustling] Courier, which is one of the—the last Black [paper rustling], uh, newspapers—national newspapers [pen hits table]. And we would walk up Parramore to, um—

Thompson
[paper rustling].

Rayam
Oh. Or was it—almost to Anderson Street. ‘Cause she walked—she walked very slowly. And, uh, we would talk all the way. And she would tell me all kind of little things about the past. And we'd stay and talk for a while. And eat some sweet potato pie [laughs]. And turn around and walk back home to Jefferson Street. That was Parramore.

Thompson
[smacks lips] And so thinking about the community of Paramore, what sort of challenges have you seen Paramore face over the years?

Rayam
Well, I see a lot of homelyn—ho—hom—homelessness now. And, uh, buildings that [background noise]—that are still I—I say still holding on that were—were new buildings when I was a child. Uh, which means [background noise] money. The money that [background noise] used to be there [background noise]—excuse me—is not there anymore to, uh—to repair them to— to attract a commodity of people to be there. Uh, but, uh, you have a—a lot of homeless people living in the area now.

Thompson
[smacks lips] And thinking on some of the challenges. Are there or were there any local organizations or networks that stick out to you as helpful in some of those challenges?

Rayam
Uh, for the homele—homelessness? Yeah. Well, your churches did at the time. Churches. You had your churches. You had your sororities. You still have your sororities. Uh, you had—well, and I would say mainly churches, and mainly families. Uh, there was—there was more of a, uh, mental healt—healthcare and facilities, uh, that were—that were targeted to help the, uh, homeless and mentally ill. Nowadays, I—I don't—I know that they're not there as they used to be. The same type of care is not taken, uh—taken seriously as they once did.

Thompson
You mentioned that churches played a big role into these community support networks. Are there any churches in particular that stick out as important to the community?

Rayam
Oh, Mt. Olive AME Church. St. Mark AME Church. Shiloh Baptist Church. Uh, oh, Lord, have mercy. Ebenezer, uh, CME Church. Um, uh, oh, my dear. To tell you the t—eh—New—New—New—her—New Bethel. Every church basically in the community. But still—Mt. Pleasant Baptist Church. Yes. During those days. Yes. Oh, yes. They—they really had a, um—a stronghold when it came to helping people in trouble.

Thompson
And you mentioned, uh, gospel singing, obviously with your background.

Rayam
Mhmm.

Thompson
Um, what was your family or personal involvement in some of these church communities?

Rayam
Well, we belong to—well [laughs], when we first came to Orlando, uh, we belonged to, um, St. Mark AME Church. And my mother sang in the choir. My father sang in the choir. And then we moved across town to the Parramore area, actually, and uh—and Jefferson Street. And we all belonged to, uh, Mt. Olive AME Church. We sang in the choir. And my mother and father, sister. We all—we all came through the choir [laughs] one way or another. Yeah.

Thompson
And, uh, thinking in the community. What role did women in particular play in supporting the community?

Rayam
They supported their men [laughs]. No. The women of—of the community were—were, uh—were backbones. They were entrepreneurs. A lot of times you found that the women had more education, uh, as compared to the men. And, uh, they were very vocal in—in, uh, making changes come to the community. So, yeah. Th—the women were very, very, very strong. Very strong.

Thompson
And thinking back to these—these networks and community. Are there particular individuals who stick out to you as important to either your or the community’s past in the community?

Rayam
Well, I've mentioned one: uh, Miss Georgia Wallace. Uh, Miss Merced—Mercerdese Clarke. Uh, Mrs. Hargrett. Uh, Mrs. Jesse B. Demps Smith. She was my godmother. Also a teacher. She was one of the first certified teachers in, uh, Orange County to do special education. She was over the, uh, Magnolia School for kids with special aid, uh—special needs. And, uh, I worked with her—with the kids, uh, on Fridays. We had an organization called the Nightcrawlers, where we would assemble all the—the kids who were mentally disturbed. And in those days called them retarded. But to give them some sense of normalcy, we, uh—we would have a big meeting and dance and eating and what have you. Uh, uh, I think it was every other Friday night here at the Magnolia School. So, yeah. I—I—it—it—it—it gave me, um, another alternative to work with mentally disturbed children, which I did do. I worked with the, uh uh—when I was in school in Miami. University of Miami. I worked at the, uh—Oh. What's the name of the place? You get me out of, uh—it was in Coral Gables. Uh, well, anyways. I worked with mentally disturbed children. And, uh, I was offered a scholarship to get my master’s in child psychology. But, uh, Broadway called to do Treemonisha [laughs]. So, that's what I wanted to do more so. Yeah. Variety Children's Hospital. That was the name of it.

Thompson
We've both used the word a lot. What does the word community mean to you?

Rayam
Community means the people that are in your vicinity. The people that you, uh—you talk to. You check on. You, uh, fuss and fight with sometimes. But, uh, they have your back and you have their back. Uh, family.

Thompson
Look—a little—a little bigger picture.

Rayam
Yeah.

Thompson
Um, how has Paramore changed over time?

Rayam
Well, it doesn't have the warmth that I remember it having. It doesn't feel as, uh, inviting as it did one time. My mother would send, uh, all of us to the barbershop, my sister, too, because after we got our—our haircuts on Saturday, we spent the rest of the day in the Carver Theater. Uh, because it was—it had air conditioning for one thing [laughs]. And we didn't have air conditioning at all. And it gave my mother a little breather [laughs]. Um, we s—we felt pretty safe. Pretty safe.

Thompson
What challenges does Parramore face today?

Rayam
Uh. I don't—I don't live there, but I think renewal. Making it safe. Keeping it, uh—keeping the historical emphasis uh, in—in front of it. And uh, making it inviting. Now, all of that calls for money. As we know. So, the community of Orlando and the community of Florida need to come together and let's see what we can do in renovating not only that Parramore, but the Parramores from city to city.

Thompson
And what is the legacy of Paramore?

Rayam
The legacy of Parramore. Hmm. Well, for me, as a child—speaking from a child's standpoint, uh, we felt a sense of community. We felt safe. Uh, you—um. Hmm. You had—in that community, you had your teachers and your preachers and—and your professionals living right next door to your day laborers, your common laborers, your maids. And, uh, everybody was your mother and your father, your sister and your brother. Uh, other than that, that's—that's what I know. Yes.

Thompson
You mentioned it a little bit, um, but what can people who don't live in Parramore do as individuals to support Parramore?

Rayam
People who do not live in Parramore? Well, you could ask for their aid. You could ask for their help, and for—ask for their advice on how to restore it. Um, more than that, you can't really expect much more than that. Um, but their cooperation. Yes. Definitely.

Thompson
And what does Parramore mean to you?

Rayam
It means that it's still there. But the only thing that I don't like is that the street of Parramore [laughs] is—is—is occupied by part of a—of a soccer field. I remember when I went down there to go through Parramore I was like, "Oh my God, I can't drive through." I know progress is progress and things do change. So, yeah. That's what Parramore means to me. I can't drive all the way through [laughs].

Thompson
Um, [clears throat] those are the main questions I wanted to ask. But...

Rayam
Okay.

Thompson
...we'll give it to you now. What else didn't we talk about that you want to?

Rayam
Well, let's see. Hmm. I don't know. I didn't mention Chief Wilson. Chief James Wilson, who was the music man at Jones High School. I really—I came to learn a lot about him, even more after he passed, on how he and—when they went to the, um, New York World's Fair in 1964, he and, uh, uh, the band director from Edgewater were very good friends. And I do not remember his name. But very good friends. They collaborated together, uh, even before integration. And they spoke up for, uh, each other. And they both went to, uh—to New York for that fair. And I didn't realize it had—it had gone down like that. Because I was a child. I knew it happened. But Chief Wilson used to, um, give everybody advice. And he was very, very, very, very, very instrumental and very dear to me. And that—you know—when I would come home from school, from university, he'd come over and talk and just to see what—what I was doing it. And—and just to—just to give me some more advice. And to keep me encouraged. To keep on going and—and, "If you needed anything, boy, give me a call." But, uh, he—he was very proud to say that under his watch, he was able to produce a world class opera singer named Curtis Rayam. And that he was— he was humbled by that. I—I—I'd never thought about it like that, but I'm sure [exhales] kids in my position now are now thinking about things that I give to them like that. But they'll be in this spot one day [laughs] and will remember. Yeah. He, uh—but he also he tr—he trained the people who trained me. Namely Mrs. Hargrett. So, yeah. Oh, yes.

Thompson
Well, if there's nothing else, thank you very much for your time. And we really appreciate it.

Rayam
You're very welcome. Thank you.